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What price Europe?

By Michael Kenrick :  02/04/2011 :  Comments (112) :

A desperate injury crisis effectively picked the team with seven defenders from the few walking wounded, seven of Moyes's first-choice players out injured... compounded by having no less than NINE out on loan.

Heitinga, Bily and Beckford came in with a slew of unknown kids named on the bench, not one of whom had ever played a Premier League game, including Gueye and Vellios, goalscoring stars from the rather poor Everton Reserves side.

Everton ran at Villa from the kick and a muddle between Beckford and Collins allowed Baines to run in momentarily but he was not alert enough to shoot.

A really poor free-kick execution by Heitinga was drifted pathetically into the wall.

Downing went on a mazey run through the Everton defence but Distin blocked his shot superbly. Beckford got free on a looped defensive ball over the top but struck it first time straight at Friedel.  Some great work on the right side set up Osman, on 10 mins  with a glorious chance that he lashed  at Friedel.

Villa weathered the storm and looked threatening on each attack, but each time, the release ball was a lofted one for the pacey Beckford to chase.  But Villa came back with more incisive passing and plenty of good corners right into the danger area.

On  20 mins, it was Everton's turn to attack, Hibbert getting fouled out wide, but the delivery did not threaten the Villa goal.  They won another free-kick that was delivered better by Baines but to no effect  but Everton won their first corner. 

Young then made late contact with Osman on the left edge of the Villa box but their tall defence again came out on top defending the lazy lofted balls Everton were putting in.

At the other end, again some good chances for Villa, a good save by Howard and a desperate block by Hibbert saving Everton's blushes.  Heitinga got booked for a clumsy block on Downing, then Jagielka got booked for his challenge on Agbonlahor.

Despite the end-to-end action, a goal was a long time coming but when it did on 37 mins  it was a fine piece of solo work from Leon Osman, released down the left by a ball from Bily after he did brilliantly to pick Bent's pocket.  Osman took on Collins in his run to goal, and deftly fired an early low shot that hit Friedel but had enough legs to bobble over the line. 

Beckford turned awkwardly and looked to do his ankle in but Moyes decided to keep the obviously injured player hobbling around on the field until half-time, no doubt with the instruction to run it off.

Beckford reappeared after the break and kicked-off for Everton who decided to start on the back foot, and it was simple stuff for Villa Downing cutting in unchallenged from the right and Bent lashing it home with ease inside 2 mins of the restart. After Howard went out of his area to challenge Bent, Kyle Waker then missed a sitter from a glorious ball in that would have put Villa ahead.

Was this now the moment to release the famous Everton secret weapon? It was Coleman who seemed to be suffering with his ankle injury and Moyes finally gave a debut to Magaye Gueye, the French Under-21 star, just as Bilyaltedinov got his ankle trodden on and HE went off for treatment!

From a well-taken corner by Gueye, Heitinga surely would score with a close range header but Friedel saved it amazingly with his head!  Osman with the afters should have curled it in but instead curled it past the far post from a great position.  Osman then had a brilliant chance to score on a fantastic deep cross-ball from Bily with the goal gapping at his mercy, ghosting in behind everyone but his first-time half-volley blazed horribly way over the bar when a technically skillful ball player would have buried it.

Gueye took a free-kick deep on the right but it drifted poorly into Friedel's hands.  Meanwhile, Downing was behind so much for Villa, running into gapping spaces the Everton defence ceded him.

A great through ball got forward  to Beckford in acres of space in front of Friedel and he was lashed at the crossbar whence it appeared to come crashing down perhaps just over the line but the assistant referee was a little too far back and it wasn't given as Everton questioned the decision, while Freidel's clearance was headed on to Bent in space and suspiciously offside he rolled it with tease past Howard.  2-1 into 1-2, just 20 seconds later! 

Howard was then chopped down by Walker, who went in the book, as Everton struggled to come to terms with the impossibility of the scoreline, having now lost all initiative. But Beckford won a free-kick that Baines cleverly pushed out to Bily, his cross came down nicely for Osman, Everton's superb technical ball-player, and his sent his third gapping chance high over the bar, a shocking, shocking miss.

With 10  mins left, Moyes made a 'brave' decision [Cough!] of bringing on untried Apostolos Vellios to belatedly provide some aerial challenge to he giants in the Villa defence [Doh!] but for once Everton then decide to play it along the ground, Gueye setting up Hibbert for a great run in and screams to shootm but he didn't.  Then Jagielka ran in and was tripped inside the area, Baines stepping up to fire the penalty straight through Friedel's legs to equalize, much to Goodison's relief.

Osman caught Downing and was booked, as Villa still threatened with each attack, making it a very entertaining if nervy spectacle.  Osman finally put an aerial ball in that Vellios laid down nicely for Baines but he wanted the ball on his left foot and then fired over, with time running out.

Three minutes of added time and Bily scamperd down the left to cross well for an excellent snapshot from Vellios that was deflected away from Freidel for a corner.  Then a free-kick for Baines on the left driven in low that Osman totally messed up, it hitting his standing leg.  Why were Everton now playing so few aerial balls from set-pieces with Beckford, Gueye, Vellios, and the defenders available to challenge? 

Villa won a late free-kick that Howard claimed all the way and that was it.  Full-time, and a draw stolen from the jaws of victory, principally by some horrendous misses by goalscorer Osman. It was a hugely entertaining game, though, some great end-to-end stuff, lots of incident, some real controversy and a lovely sunny spring day to boot. Just a terrible pity that Everton ? not the first time in this crazy season ? failed to win a game that by rights, they really should have won.

Reader Comments

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Neil Waring
1   Posted 02/04/2011 at 16:56:22

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That was a good laugh essentially!
Michael Kenrick
2   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:06:10

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I think you're right, Neil, no point in taking it seriously anymore... despite the money riding on it. Run around in the sun and have a bit of a laff.
Dalziel Kane
3   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:02:46

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I've said it before, I'll take a point with seven minutes left to rescue a result. I would've wanted the three points obviously, but Aston Villa do have players that can do a job and they will be the more pleased going back to Birmingham.

Had other results in the EPL today that went my way or I was in favor of so I'll take that and it's still a mathematical possibility that EFC can gain a European place, the extra two points today would've been most welcome though. :(

Roman Sidey
4   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:11:01

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Good write up, and the side that took the field seemed to share your attitude. Really positive stuff to take from Gueye and Vellios showing up and actually doing something. Should (but inevitably won't) send a message to Moyes and the rest of the squad that there is competition for places.

Having said all that, a draw at home to relegation strugglers isn't good enough, but par for the course this season. The bad luck stories will come loud and clear regards Beckford's goal and Villa's subsequent counter attack. But at the end of the day, we weren't clinical enough at the business end of the pitch, and Moyes obviously fucked something up in the dressing room at half-time.

Moyes out.
Chris Bannantyne
5   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:26:25

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Pleasing signs from Gueye and Vellios. Hopefully they can offer us something at the tail end of the season.

I've not got too much else to say. Yeah, the whole no-goal for Beckford, and subsequent possible offside goal from Bent gave me the shits, but really we should have done better at times.

I have all of my fingers crossed very tightly that we can have some positive movements in the transfer window. No idea how that could happen, just hoping it does.
Rob Keys
6   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:25:30

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I reckon all of us are relieved that we at least had 1 point, though it's probably the case that we would have thought that it's 2 points dropped.

However, Roman, please share your "enlightened" discovery... not sure how you've arrived at the half-time conclusion.

Michael Kenrick
7   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:43:30

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There was so much happening in the match and my feed was seriously fucked at times... so please can we have some first impressions of Vellios and Gueye as Premier League players... How did they do?
Gavin Ramejkis
8   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:44:04

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My major comment now I'm back from the game is where the fuck has Gueye been? Has Moyes blown games where he could have made a big difference?? On today's showing he's bloody good and did more today than Bily has all season.

My ongoing gripe is can anyone wake Howard up and tell him how to command his area or catch a ball as he didn't bother until the end of the game today, their second was a shocker.

Dalziel Kane
9   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:33:17

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There have been times this season we have faced poorer opposition, or sides we should be beating, at Goodison at least and have failed to capitalize or take full advantage, I have felt the frustrations as much as the next person, these have been spoken of in volumes before now, you always think or hope the season after will have a change in fortunes but you get let down again. I am still unhappy with the FA Cup exit to a degree, we really could of done something that night and may well have been lining up for a semi-final place in a week or two.

Is it time for Moyes to go, this has been bled to death, he's had nine years now, and has yet to win anything... One FA Cup Final is the best he has managed in sometimes difficult circumstances. I don't dislike Mister Moyes, I wish him well, but do think often he has taken Everton FC as far as he is able. 16 years now without a piece of silverware is too long for a club of this stature.

Not that any club has any divine right to win trophies, but even so, I would love to see an Everton captain go up again since Watson in '95 and lift a trophy, it's been a long time, and I don't know how long it will continue.
Matthew Lovekin
10   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:48:07

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I just want this season to finish asap before we're left with Howard, Hibbert and Osman as the only fit players!
Jimmy Sorheim
11   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:50:33

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Perhaps if Vellios was substituted at the same time Gueye was, then we might have won the game, since we struggle in the air in front of goal. Without Saha and Yakubu, that is not exactly strange, is it?

Well we had the ULTIMATE chance to get closer to both the Redshite and the falling Spurs but, as normal, MOYES was too stubborn to make a change earlier in the game, so there we are. In no-man's land. See ya next season guys!!!

Jamie Barlow
12   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:45:56

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Rob, Roman has discovered nothing and just needs an excuse to have a go at Moyes. Idiotic comment. Roman out!!!
Peter Dancer
13   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:48:59

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Really impressed by Gueye. Some nice spot kicks that actually seem to go to where he want them to go. The Greek lad didn't get nearly enough time for us to make a judgement.

What I will say about Moyes is, even though I wish he'd given these guys a go earlier, now they've come in (and will probably have to play in the next couple of games as well) and can prove themselves, Moyes does reward that by keeping them in the team (Coleman/Rodwell as examples made their debut in similar circumstances).

Trevor Mackie
14   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:04:06

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Rob Keys

I'm puzzled as to how we got 1 point when we got beat.
Roman Sidey
15   Posted 02/04/2011 at 17:49:51

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Rob Keys, I was just lamenting about us conceding so early in the second half. I feel when that happens it's usually because you haven't come out from the break with the right mind set. Against better sides, these things happen ? it's what makes them better sides. But Villa have been a lot worse than us this season, and today we made them look good (seems to be our role in the League this season making crap teams look good).

Michael, tough break about your feed being shit. Mine cut out just as Baines was standing to take the pen. I think people will be very happy with Gueye and Vellios, and some will be saying the need to be in the side next week. In my opinion, Gueye should start, and Vellios, if not starting the next game shoud at least be a half-time substitute if we aren't winning by that point.

Both players seemed to do their job and more, without too much fuss and actually made me feel ordinary about the other players we have that aren't performing. Amazing what giving these young guys a chance at home can do.
Gavin Ramejkis
16   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:10:11

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Trevor, not sure what game you were watching but it finished 2-2.
Roman Sidey
17   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:14:54

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Yeah, Trev. WTF? haha.
Trevor Mackie
18   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:14:32

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Gavin, I didn't watch and I caught what I thought was a 2-1 deficit scoreline on telly just before I posted ? funny... my wife says I'm going senile.

Not as bad as coming off the pitch in the seventies thinking we'd drawn a quarter-final game - Liverpool Echo said we'd lost 5-4.
Ryan Holroyd
19   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:21:28

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Each to their own but I thought Osman and Baines were our best players. Honerable mentions to Gueye and Vellios and Hibbert.

Bad points were Bily and Heitinga. Can't wait to see the back of these two. Heitinga, for the huge ego he has, is fucking shite. Struts around the pitch like the big "I am". He played in a World Cup Final not cos of his ability but cos of others. No wonder Athletico Madrid wanted rid of the fanny.

Bily is not up to the physical side and is so slow.

The ref and linesman were terrible. How the linesman didn't see Beckford's goal was in was beyond me.
Trevor Lynes
20   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:33:09

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Ironically every time I looked at the progress of games I noticed that the Yak scored a hat trick and Vaughan got one goal (both on loan)... But, I am delighted that it gave two of our youngsters a chance to show a bit of promise. We will have to wait to see Mustafi I suppose until we send a few more out on loan!!!

Looking at the fragility of our squad, I'm happy that we got a point although three would have been brilliant. Luckily we have enough points to be able to breathe a bit better and maybe the injuries will enable us to see a few new faces.

David Hallwood
21   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:35:58

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I cannot believe that people are criticizing Moyes. FFS, even if you?re 100% anti-Moyes, you must give the man some credit for getting something out of the game that we had no right to be competing in. He?s working with a squad already so thin it could be anorexic and missing 5 key players and people are still moaning. Reality check gents.

ps: Oh for Darren Bent.

Gavin Ramejkis
22   Posted 02/04/2011 at 18:53:14

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David, not playing Gueye and playing Bily is down to DM but have to agree with you Bent is what happens when you buy a striker ? DM admits he should have bought one last season, won't hold my breath for the refund on his fuck-up and a piss-poor season thanks to him not buying one though.
Roman Sidey
23   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:02:32

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David, fair enough, Moyes has done wonders with... blah, blah, fucking blah...

It's the same old excuse. No matter that the position we find ourselves in with a threadbare squad is heavily on Moyes's shoulders as well as the board's.

Imagine what Gueye or Vellios could have done to Villa, who are absolutely diabolical at the moment, had they had some more Prem League experience before today.

Moyes has absolutely no vision to the future, and counts on having no support from the board to keep his reputation in check.
Sam Hoare
24   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:11:13

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Gavin ? pretty sure Moyes would have loved to have bought a striker had he been given funds. Not many good strikers available on free transfers and we couldn't even afford loan fees!!

Didn't get to watch today but was Gueye good all-round?

As far as I'm concerned, we might as well blood as many of the youngsters as possible. For once, I agree with Roman and think Premier League experience could be very valuable to these kids given our increasing reliance on them.
Roman Sidey
25   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:19:31

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Sam, Gueye wasn't the best on the field, but he certainly held his own and I can't remember seeing him do anything wrong. He knows how to pass (set up Beckford's no-goal with ease), can cross/take corners, and is a serious presence on the ball. Watching him was both good and bad. Good because now we know we have a player that can do things well; bad because he really would have made a difference in some of our draws this year.
Richard Tarleton
26   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:31:59

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Anyone noticed? Yakubu scored a hat-trick!
James Bernard
27   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:38:59

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For all those moaning, Bily got an assist today and so in fact did do something.
David Hallwood
28   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:43:37

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Gavin & Roman (#22 & #23), I've got some problems with DM's style of play and baffling substitutions & team selections, so I'm not, to use Michael Kenrick's phrase an acolyte. But obviously he wanted to bring in a striker and a wide mid, and the board didn't or couldn't back him.

This time last year I was watching the birth of a great side but, when the Donovan loan stint finished, we struggled and it was obvious that he or a similar type of player gave the team an extra dimension; we were matching the ?big? teams stride for stride and dealing comfortably with the so-called lesser teams.

Now I?m not blessed with some unique football knowledge and I?m sure that Bill & Dave were watching the same thing, and not to act on it (and I don?t mean ?doing a Leeds?) it?s meant that this season has been a huge lost opportunity, which we probably won?t see again.

Ian Smitham
29   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:34:54

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Just got back as well. We are down to the bare bones of a Premier League squad.

I got criticised on here a few months ago for saying we needed a clearout and how we still do. If we have no money and clearly we need to spend, then Johnny (another stupid foul today) and Bily need to head the list. I have tried to support both but, with the introduction of the "secret weapon" today, it has made my mind up.

He is big, muscular, runs around, takes a great corner, and seems willing to tackle back and has a bit of pace. He cost pretty well nothing. Can't really comment about our Greek man.

Am I the only one who worries about Howard, and Jags-England? Beckford is so much better than he was and finally, why no mention by the tannoy man about TH and ten years? Like him or not, every respect for the man who has served us well for 10 years and put in a good display today. Pity Villa had to foul him to stop him and lastly, really, that run into the box in the second half, wow!! Cheers guys.
David Crowe
30   Posted 02/04/2011 at 19:30:36

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Game went how I expected it to really. We had just one first choice midfielder fit and it was our weak link in Coleman, plus Saha being missing was just horrendous. I actually had a feeling it would be 1-2 with Bent to score for them.

Our squad is threadbare now and this, when we look back, isn't the worst result. I'm gutted we didn't win. Watching from the Gwladys as Bent scored the 2nd was horrible though. I really want them down. I hate that club with a passion. Why is it their fans sing more about the opposition fans than their team? Why is it that they were singing 'you've never won fuck all' to Everton? This is a successful club with a nearly identical history to theirs. I hate Ashley Young, I hated O'Neill and the list goes on...

Excuse me, I'm devastated we let a half-time lead slip. But I'll let the players off on this one as a lot of them just weren't of a high enough quality to be expected to live up to the quality of Fellaini, Mikel, Louis etc. We came up against some quality players and it was the quality players and poor refereeing that cost us.

Can't wait to see more of Gueye. Looks skillful, quick and his delivery from what I've seen of it has been nothing short of brilliant. He did more in 20 mins than Bily has done all season. I'd start him from here on in. He is good enough, just not mature enough yet.

Plus we need to blood some players for next year. Him and Vellios need games this year to set them up for next. They could be good players and if we hang on to Fellaini in the summer and Rodwell, I still believe in a relatively bright future.

Dick Anderson
31   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:23:31

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Europe is a dream. Birmingham have taken one of the Europa Spots. The FA Cup finialists (Bolton or Stoke) will get the other place in Europa. Which leaves 5th the only other chance. And that will surely go to either Spurs or Man City.

Even Liverpool have very little chance of finishing 5th. We have no chance.

Let's hope next season Moyes brings in a striker during the summer.
Chris Butler
32   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:23:45

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It was a great game, I think we played excellent.

Beckford's laziness seriously pisses off the fans. He produced two lazy attempts on goal: missed one sitter with a pathetic finish when he should've scored; his second one, he just decides to blast the ball when it was easier to just place it in. Seriously, if he could shoot properley we'd be in the top 4.

I'd say only Bily and him put a foot wrong today. It was a great game, lots of banter between the two sets of supporters. Whatever people say, I believe the simple reality is we are incapable of taking chances.

Dave Wilson
33   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:27:50

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"Moyes admits he should have bought a striker last season"

And I admit I should have bought a Aston Martin.
Roman Sidey
34   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:30:50

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Ian, from your prose it sounds like you may not have seen the game, or the whole game. I apologise if I'm wrong. But did you see Heitinga's yellow card foul? It was laughable. Was lucky to be a free kick. It goes back to what I was saying a week or so ago about the way the referees have evolved this type of player out of the game. If that is a yellow card, then the poor guy has no chance of being the enforcer that he is/was.
Brian Lawlor
35   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:31:32

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Funny how the Moyes haters are now suggesting Gueye should have been playing this season all because he looked lively. Sure he did well for the 30 mins he was on the pitch. However, it was very obvious he's extremely one-footed.

I was at Brentford when he started against League 1 oppostion and he was total shite and was rightly dragged off. We didn't see him again until today and I wasn't surprised. Moyes sees him day in and day out.

Villa have far greater attacking quality than us. The difference was Villa have a proper, proven goalscorer at this level. Bent had 2 sniffs and scored 2 goals. Beckford had 2 one-on-ones which he should have buried but didn't because, instead of concentrating on finishing, he just tries to twat them as hard as he can. Sure you can say, the 2nd one was over the line, but he just should have simply slotted it.

That was not a bad result considering the injuries we have.
Roman Sidey
36   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:44:37

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Brian, I'm a Moyes hater and have been calling for Gueye to get a game since the first week when we realised we are short of attacking options. Sure, he might be one footed, but that's better than some of the no-footed players we've used this season.
Brian Lawlor
37   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:48:56

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Not true Roman. He obviously isn't good enough / ready yet. Moyes and the backroom staff see him every day. He only got a sniff today because of all the injuries. Also, he was the most experienced (with 2 apperances!) on the bench as the rest were kids. He did ok but he's not better than we've got. He stank at Brentford.

No-one can say from that brief cameo that he should be in the team.
Roman Sidey
38   Posted 02/04/2011 at 20:53:57

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As I said earlier though, Premier League experience is invaluable to players like him, and after the first couple of months of the season we had nothing to lose. Can you honestly say he definitely would not have made a difference in games against the likes of Wigan, West Ham et al?

People keep saying Moyes sees these players every day at training, but the same people still slag off certain players who are getting selected week-in, week-out. I'm fairly sure Moyes sees them every day at training too. For me, Moyes's opinion isn't gospel, and quite regularly far from the truth.
Brian Lawlor
39   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:01:15

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Can you honestly say he would have made a difference?

I can honestly say having been at Brentford for his only Everton start that I'm not surprised we didn't see him again. What I saw today hasn't made me think we've been missing out. On top of that, I trust Moyes and the coaching staff. He hasn't even made the bench on lots of occasions.

Has Stubbs been singing his praises every week for performances in the reserves? Have any Evertonians who watch the reserves been screaming for him to get a game?

It's totally absurd to point any criticism towards Moyes for him not being selected. All the evidence clearly suggests he's not good enough.
Ryan Holroyd
40   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:09:00

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You can't buy a forward like Bent when you've got 3 theatre tickets and a packet of chocolate coins as your transfer budget. Wanting to buy a forward and having the cash to do it is something different. Not hard to understand surely?!!
Ryan Holroyd
41   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:15:43

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Personally I think we should have bought Ronaldo.
Brian Lawlor
42   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:16:47

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Thats the difference though, Ryan ,and what has probably resulted in draws that otherwise would have been wins. Not having a decent. experienced forward.

Look at Bent's last 3 clubs; Spurs, Sunderland and Villa. Clubs we've been competing with the last few years

Incidentally, Bent joined Sunderland for £10 million. Bily cost us £9 milllion.

Ian Smitham
43   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:09:35

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Roman, Top Balcony front row level with half way. Obvious booking, stupid attempt at tackle, retaliating against a decision moments before that did not go our way. Pity he was not as committed in the Blackpool tackle.

Oh yes, and to add to the funds, sell Yak and then get what we can for Joey, who I would still pick as first choice centre back, edging ahead of SD who, aside from one game, has been as dependable as you can wish for.

You all know my view: Keep MF and JR at all costs though LB deserves a claim and the rest sadly must go in the melting pot (at the right price).

BTW ? Has anyone ever met Ken? When I am in the Blue Dragon, I keep trying to visualise him and asking outloud "Where's Ken?" hoping one day he will own up.
Brian Waring
44   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:30:24

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Entertaining game to watch. Biggest disappointment: Jags cheating to win the pen; I thought he was better than that. Ronaldo would have been proud of him.
Colin Malone
45   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:14:43

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Get off Bily's back. Osman played well today, why?
BECAUSE HE'S NOT A FUCKING WINGER.
Why is Bily having a bad time from day one at Everton?
BECAUSE HE'S NOT A FUCKING WINGER.
Why did supporter get on Jagielka's back?
BECAUSE HE WAS NOT A HOLDING MIDFIELDER.
Why do supporters get on Heitinga's back?
BECAUSE HE IS NOT A MIDFIELDER.

No wonder we ain't won nothing....
Michael Parkes
46   Posted 02/04/2011 at 21:55:27

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I am happy with a point today given the circumstances... People asking for Moyes to be sacked are crazy.

I would like to be higher but we are seventh (where most pundits had us at the beginning of the season). The teams above us have all spent like crazy. The teams below are spending more than us. We have injuries beyond belief and no money.

Do people really think Moyes wanted to send all those players out on loan and not get any in? Do they think he was sitting on £20m in the summer and refused to buy a striker? Now people are saying Gueye should start every game after a cameo today... I remember Bily's first game and everyone was saying he was the next Sheedy! Don't hear that one to often now do you?

Sack Moyes, my arse; the man is doing an unbelievable job with both hands tied behind his back at the moment. Is a new manager going to come and the board will pull money out of thin air to back him? it's time to get real and realise most of the situation we are in is out of Moyes's hands at the moment until we get some investment.

Nick Entwistle
47   Posted 02/04/2011 at 22:09:59

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Did you see Jagielka's match ratings?

10.0 10.0 10.0 10.0 10.0 10.0
Brian Waring
48   Posted 02/04/2011 at 22:18:58

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It was a great triple salco though Nick.

Peter Bourke
49   Posted 02/04/2011 at 22:17:51

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To answer the poster's original question... we are 5 million to 1 to get into Europe this year.

Gueye and Vellios were good today and both deserve to be on the bench in future and given game time where possible.

I think we played well given our injuries and the fact that Villa were practically at full strength. Although their position on the ladder is low, I have watched their recent performances and they haven't been that bad, just a bit unlucky, like we were today.

Roman, you have got to be kidding with your critique of this game and Moyes. It's back to Football Manager for you, I'm afraid.

Jamie Barlow
50   Posted 02/04/2011 at 22:05:07

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I really enjoyed the dive by Jags. About time those cheating bastards got a taste of their own. Good to see Gueye and Vellios get some game time but shouldn't get carried away and start slagging Moyes off for not playing them earlier. We'll probably see quite a bit more from our youngsters now that we're reasonably safe and that can only be a good thing. I also hope Villa go down. I can't stand them.
Gavin Ramejkis
51   Posted 02/04/2011 at 22:25:02

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David (#28) ? DM knows the score with Billy Bullshitter's lack of cash so knew if he wanted a striker he should have sold players to make way for one. If he didn't rate or want Vaughan, Yakubu, Anichebe, Bily and Heitinga he could have made a few quid from them and bought one.

Fair play that hindsight is a wonderful thing but Moyes has us all hands down in that he knows the truth about whether he was getting anything from any sales and could easily have held a gun to BK's head telling the fans he's having to sell to buy. Sadly he did nothing and said nothing, even when he finally bit the bullet and sold Pienaar. He's not spent a penny of that money which appears to have gone straight towards one of BK's many debts.

Roman Sidey
52   Posted 02/04/2011 at 23:24:15

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Peter, I haven't played Playstation football since I was at uni, and I don't think I've actually critiqued this game that much. I'll admit, with all the injuries to first team players, we did alright (draw at home to a shit team!!!)

However, I'm not hiding my opinion of Moyes at all and I put the majority of blame for this season on him. We all knew before last summer that we had no money, and to buy we'd have to sell.

Had he sold Pienaar in the summer we might have been able to buy a striker that doesn't get injured every time he plays, and that was playing higher football than League 1.

As I've said earlier, Moyes depends on two things to please people. The first being the board having no money so that he still get plaudits for doing absolutely nothing in terms on getting Everton trophies. The second stemming from that and having a threadbare squad so that when we have half a team out injured and still manage to DRAW AT HOME TO SHIT TEAMS he seems like a miracle worker.

It's laughable that people accept his return and still trust his judgement. Today we should have been on 43 points, and anything less than that should have been unacceptable.
James Martin
53   Posted 02/04/2011 at 23:53:56

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It was pratically a reserve team out today. 5 or 6 first team players out and two defenders playing centre mid. This against a Villa team at full strength scrapping for their lives and with international talent of Bent Young and Downing upfront.

We still destroyed them and would have won but for our usual combination of bad luck, missed opportunities and the infuriating knack of conceding from every single opposition chance.

If you took 5 first team players out of any other team in the league they'd struggle like we did. Considering the absentees, it was actually a decent performance.

Gavin Ramejkis
54   Posted 03/04/2011 at 00:20:20

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Colin (#44) ? Eastenders would be proud of you're double negative "we ain't won nothing" translates to having won something.

Dave Wilson (#32) ? having driven a DB9 for my birthday a few years ago and wanting one since my Mrs decided my money goes on my wife and two kids instead... so I'd love one too and could have one at a stretch but it ain't going to happen soon.

As far as Jag's swan dive in the box, I genuinely don't give a flying fuck when the league is full of twats like Young taking the piss year on year and the fabled 'Respect' campaign for referees. Well, I say this gentleman shite is getting us nowhere; if a few of our lads had rolled around today, those Brummie gobshites would have been down to 9 men and we would have won at a canter.
Andrew James
55   Posted 03/04/2011 at 00:36:14

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Gavin,

Although I get your point, I am proud that Everton players are not known for diving, fouling and remonstrating with refs.

I also think the fact that we've gone so long without a penalty (just like 2 or 3 years back I believe) reflects either well on us or badly on officials or those going over easily in other teams.

But, I get what you mean because Beckford scored. If that was Man Utd or Chelsea there would have been all kinds of remonstrations but we did nothing and the next thing we know, we're trailing! Neville should have protested thus at least causing some discussion between the ref and linesman but instead we lay down.
Ryan Holroyd
56   Posted 03/04/2011 at 00:48:09

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Had he sold Pienaar in the summer we might have been able to buy a striker that doesn't get injured every time he plays, and that was playing higher football than League 1.

How do you know clubs made a bid for Pienaar? No club was going to pay big money for someone with 12 months of his contract left.
Andrew James
57   Posted 03/04/2011 at 01:09:50

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Ryan

Pienaar was not all that and he isn't doing much in North London.

People say he was our most creative player? Not really. He flattered to deceive. Arteta and Osman are better players.

Fact is, when Pienaar retires, he will look back on his time with us and realise it was the best part of his career.
Roman Sidey
58   Posted 03/04/2011 at 01:17:24

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We would have gotten a bit more than £3M for him (maybe £5M or £6M at a stretch) and could have used that money when the prices weren't crazy like they seem to be in January. I never rated Pienaar as our most important player and frankly think we're a better side without him.

Andrew is right. It's kind of good that our players don't roll around and scream and flap at the ref, but where has it gotten us?
Gavin Ramejkis
59   Posted 03/04/2011 at 01:55:40

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Ryan, he wasn't for sale, nobody knows how much we could have gotten for him because of that, but the lesson from Lescott was put your price out there and if no takers then fair play but Moyes said "not for sale" then had to back down eventually and we lost out as the money went into one of BK's black holes.

I've got a suspicion Moyes knew he didn't fancy other players like Yakubu staying either and it's well known he can't wait to get shut of Vaughan yet gives Anichebe a four-year contract.

Andrew James
60   Posted 03/04/2011 at 02:10:46

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Gavin

You might have a point with the Yak who hasn't been any good anywhere after 3 years!! People keep banging on about him scoring lots in the Championship. He played in the World Cup last summer and now he's playing for Leicester??

I always thought the Yak was a very unlikely Moyes signing and, despite a tidy first season 20-goal haul, it never really worked out.
Roman Sidey
61   Posted 03/04/2011 at 02:45:35

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Andrew, I was stoked when we signed the Yak, but he was a deadline day signing, like most (all) of our high priced players, so was probably not Moyes's first choice to replace Beattie.

I really think Moyes and him had a falling out because since his injury he really wasn't given a chance. Championship or not, Yak is currently banging in goals for a team that isn't Everton. For me, this hurts a lot, and to see the likes of Anichebe still wearing our kit stinks to high hell.
John Daley
62   Posted 03/04/2011 at 02:25:57

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Roman, some of your criticism of Moyes is just bizarre. You seriously believe that the man spends all pre-season hoping that the board will give him fuck all to spend in the transfer market, and purposely opts for a wafer thin squad, all as part of some diabolical master plan to portray himself as some sort of against the odds "miracle worker"??

Now, I'm firmly of the opinion that Moyes has reached the end of the line at this club, he stagnated and ran out of ideas a long time ago. I've made that clear enough on this site on numerous occasions.

However, I would never proudly describe myself as "a Moyes hater" and I refuse to criticise the man simply for the sake of it. How can you possibly conclude that the reason Villa took a 2-1 lead was down to the fact that "...Moyes obviously fucked something up in the dressing room at half-time."?

Was his biggest fuck-up telling Beckford that he should just smash his next chance as hard as he can off the underside of the bar? Was it Coleman that he "fucked up in the dressing room"? Is that why he had to come off? Did he tell Baines to leave Downing in acres of space for the first goal, or order Howard to rush out like a lunatic for the second?

Phil Rodgers
63   Posted 03/04/2011 at 04:01:57

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Considering the injuries, a point aint too bad... but the defending for their goals was as bad as anything I have seen by any team this season.
Derek Thomas
64   Posted 03/04/2011 at 07:24:48

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Where's that Russian linesman when you need him?

Looked a bit iffy from Jags, seems like Reffs are still giving compensatory decisions when they know deep down they cocked up.

Blatter, please, please, please drag FIFA into the (min) 20th century. Pull finger on the goal line technology will you!

Jamie Crowley
65   Posted 03/04/2011 at 07:35:57

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I may be in the minority but I was very pleased overall.
It was so much fun watching the younger kids get a chance.

I'd rather watch Beckford, Gueye, Vellios, and Coleman play like they did today with guile, effort, and purpose than watch the same old boring, predictable lineup.

I thought Gueye was fantastic.

We shoulda won.... but despite the unfair result I enjoyed it immensely.

Please play Gueye. Kid's got talent.
Brian Lawlor
66   Posted 03/04/2011 at 07:39:12

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Some people really do need to get real about our finances and Moyes's constraints as a result.

Pienaar was only on £25k per week. He wanted £75k which is why there was a stalemate 18 months ago. As I kept saying on here, he had already agreed to join Spurs on a free before he went. The club actually did well to force Spurs' hand and get £3 mill. What decent striker cud we get for £3 mill and £25k wages? Probably a Jermaine Beckford in contract at best.

Moyes was forced to get Yak and his £65k wages off the bill and this was all part of the agreement to give Arteta a new £75k contract. That's why Yak hasn't even been recalled.

None of the above is Moyes's fault. Would fans rather have Yak than Arteta? No, there would have been murder. Some people are saying we should have sold to buy. However, clubs had got to want to buy the specific players... plus, if you're desperate to sell, you won't get anywhere near the asset's full value. Do you honestly think Billy bullshitter would let that happen?

We are seriously skint and Moyes continues to work with his hands tied behind his back.
Gavin Ramejkis
67   Posted 03/04/2011 at 08:05:20

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Brian ? Sturridge on a season-long loan could have been an option.
Brian Lawlor
68   Posted 03/04/2011 at 08:38:19

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I don't think it was. Firstly he moved from moneybag city to moneybags chelsea on a free so he'll be on £60k per week minimum.

Would we be able to pay that? No. Is he worth that? Not in my opinion.

Paul Doyle
69   Posted 03/04/2011 at 09:23:05

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All good banter, yet no-one seems to mention anything about the clown we have between the sticks... How many points have his clangers cost us this season?
Brian Waring
70   Posted 03/04/2011 at 09:15:06

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What I find funny is how Jagielka's cheating has been swept under the carpet, he was a fucking disgrace.

The saddest thing is, I had a couple of lads last night defending it, and their defence, was that other players have dived to win pens against us.
Martin Handley
71   Posted 03/04/2011 at 09:18:32

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Just thought I'd give my thoughts on Gueye & Velios.

Firstly Gueye, from the moment he came on, he was a breath of fresh air, taking players on, genuine pace and skill, and an end-product with the cross! A must start for the last few games.

Vellios should get more of these cameos for the rest of the season too. He did more running, won more headers and had more shots on goal (1!) than big Vic has is the past 2 years.

I also saw Shane Duffy after the game signing autographs, thought he was meant to be at Burnley?

Gavin Ramejkis
72   Posted 03/04/2011 at 09:43:43

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Martin, one thing about Vellios is his robot arms when he runs which was quite funny to watch, pity he didn't get a bit longer on the pitch to see what he could do; Gueye does seem to have decent feet and a good cross and corner in him.
Paul Gladwell
73   Posted 03/04/2011 at 10:54:25

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Colin Malone, sorry mate, I agree he is not a winger but he is also not much else either.

I made a point of watching him off the ball all day yesterday, from defending at corners to covering his full back, to helping his midfielders and all I saw was someone who just did not want to know; the game passed him by. What was also annoying was, everytime he made a balls-up, I clocked Moyes spin around in anger ? and yet he still persisted with him!

What also has got on my tits for years ? I have missed a good few goals scored by the away team as I have been finishing my half-time pint... what goes on down there at half-time? I think he needs to send them out early for the second half.

Another gripe is our injuries: how come every year we seem to have the biggest injury crisis out of anyone else in the league and all those lads who would have now been given their chance are out on loan, just what has Billy Bull done to our beloved club to see a bench like that whilst our only natural goalscorer bags a hat trick up north???

I am a Moyes critic, I felt sorry for him yesterday but then I thought, "Why should I?" ? if he won't have some balls and grill the charlatan.

Martin Mason
74   Posted 03/04/2011 at 11:45:13

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All I can say is that I'm very proud of our tiny mongrel squad of useless local lads and no-hope imports. I'm proud that with nothing we can compete at the highest level of world soccer and put together a very reasonable run of results like we are now.

We are in deep trouble as a club but I believe that Moyes, for all his obvious faults, is a remarkable manager and without him under the control of a resource free and incompetent board we would have been in the championship or lower several years ago. It's also fantastic to see two possibly very good players that we got for next to nothing break into the first team.

We need to get rid of Bily (unfortunately) and Heitinga (thankfully) to get some funds and if necessary the big fella will have to go. Do we really do better with Arteta in the side? Is he worth £60k a week? We have some players who could genuinely go, without significantly weakening the side, as long as we buy well.

Martin Handley
75   Posted 03/04/2011 at 12:00:09

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Does anybody know how Jo Silva is getting on back in Portugal?

Gavin, I totally agree about Vellios and his running style! But, as I said, he's a massive improvement on Anichebe at the moment and judging by the state of Beckford when he went home last night, hand bandaged, limping and a lump on his head, he may well get longer than 10 minutes next week!

Hope there's not many midweek games left as we'll have to get permission from the school board for most of our subs!

Colin Malone
76   Posted 03/04/2011 at 12:16:20

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Paul Gladwell. I watched Jags play in midfield and he was awful. Now I would not swap him for anyone. I remember the likes of Lineker and Sheedy, their work rate was not that good but we had players around them who could win the ball for them.

We ain't got one ball winner in this present midfield, Fellaini ain't a ball winner, hence his second long injury. How we miss Lee Carsley. I would love to see Bily in his rightful position, alongside the centre-forward.
IT IS PARAMOUNT THAT WE GET A BALL WINNING HOLDING MIDFIELDER ASAP.

Ryan Holroyd
77   Posted 03/04/2011 at 12:45:11

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Roman, did you not see Yak's performances this season, especially at West Ham? He was a disgrace. Also, the reason he went to Leicester is because we needed his wages off the wage bill and also they paid us a million loan him. We are broke. Skint. It really is simple to understand. Perhaps if you think logically instead of hating Moyes this would help you a lot.
Trevor Lynes
78   Posted 03/04/2011 at 11:45:47

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We do not have a worse injury crisis than any other team... it just seems like we do because we have no decent players as alternatives to our 12 or 13 first team squad. Other teams have lots of injuries but they also have top class replacements.

A decent squad should have cover for every position, eg; Modric/Pienaar and Kranjcar at Spurs... an absolute plethora of striking alternatives, etc etc etc. Every top side is the same and they are constantly being linked with top players as BUYERS not SELLERS.

It is false economy to take chances on loaning out first team squad members and taking a chance on injuries. Every position in the league we finish is worth half a million pounds so it's foolhardy to take chances when you still have to pay wages to players who are injured... and that fact may cost positions in the league table when they are unfit and loans make reasonable replacements unavailable.

It seems to me that our club is really in a financial mess and DM is performing a job similar to old Mother Hubbard. I honestly do not see any other top manager who would want his job with hands tied behind their back regarding investment.

Roman Sidey
79   Posted 03/04/2011 at 13:27:51

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John Daley, I don't think Moyes purposefully wants no money and heaps of injuries in the side. What I meant was these are the things that keep his reputation in check. If it weren't for them, he wouln't have all the praise for what he's "achieved".

If the squad had stayed relatively full strength as it was for most of the first half of the season and we' continued in the form we did until the halfway point, would many people be singing Moyes' praise now? I certainly hope not.

I don't like the idea that I said I'm a "Moyes hater", but seriously, since his display at Bolton, I can't stand the sight of him and I do wish we had a manager that was more likable.

Also, what I said about him fucking something up at half-time I actually related to their first goal. If you concede in the first few minutes of a half, it's because you aren't prepared for the half properly.

Brian, the figures you throw around and the fact that Pienaar had already agreed to join Spurs aren't exactly true are they? People can say all they want about wages, but at the end of the day, the only way we'll ever know their true value is by looking at their pay slip, a la John Arne Riise.
Roman Sidey
80   Posted 03/04/2011 at 13:40:00

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Ryan, I have watched all but probably 2 league games this year, so have seen most of the Yak's performances. Yes, he's struggled since his injury to play decent football but, as I and many others have pointed out, he has been given fuck all chance by Moyes since his return.

Striker is a confidence position and most people know you need a run of games to get your eye in and start banging them in. He's had a good run at the Foxes and is banging the goals in.

Having seen him most of the season playing for us, I saw him score against Stoke in October, and the delight on his face said it all; "I'm back, and I'm going to score more."

Since then, how many minutes was he given by Moyes?
Andy Callen
81   Posted 03/04/2011 at 13:49:24

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Dick (#31) only the FA Cup winner gets into Europe. If the winner has already qualified through the league then their place now goes to 6th place in the league (or 7th if the League Cup winner finishes in the top 5). So, with that in mind, yesterday's result was a massive missed opportunity to close the gap on the RS in 6th.

I am also amazed at how people keep going on about Yakubu and Vaughan. Yes, they are scoring in the Championship; however, David Nugent scored loads the other year in the Championship, he moved to Pompey and was crap in the Premier League. Kitson, Chopra, Earnshaw and many other good Championship strikers have been unable to step up to the level of the Premier League when given their chance.

Yes, Yakubu was a good Premier League striker; however, post-injury he has not been the same player and may have now found his level.

Vaughan has also been unlucky that his development has been interrupted so often with injury. Maybe a few years at a lower level will help him and one day he will be able to make it in the PL ? when we sell him in the summer we should definitely include a buy-back clause or get a percentage of any future fee. NSNO

Terry McLavey
82   Posted 03/04/2011 at 13:48:04

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I bet Ashley (fall over!) Young was quite envious of Jagielka's penalty! That's the way to do it ! You never know, if everyone else continues playing shite, we could make Europe!

Nice to see us moving up the pecking order on MotD, probably a mistake which Gary L will put right next week!

Good to see Wayne showing his eloquent command of his native tongue to the camera for all to see! His parents must be so proud! The regret statement must have been written by someone else as it contained words of more than one syllable! Bless!

Paul Gladwell
83   Posted 03/04/2011 at 16:20:51

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Roman, I totally agree and so do many others: piss poor since his injury then MotM in the derby, then scored a cracker against Stoke; we all thought he may be finding some form and then he's never been seen since! He may be lazy but he sure knows where the bloody net is and we could have done with that yesterday.
Ryan Holroyd
84   Posted 03/04/2011 at 16:33:27

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The FA Cup winners go into Europe. However, if they are already in Europe through their league placing, then the FA Cup runners-up go into Europe. As Bolton and Stoke will not finish in a European place through the league and as one of those teams will deffo be in the final, one of them will be in Europe next season.
Dave Wilson
85   Posted 03/04/2011 at 16:30:36

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Brian (70)

Dont ever drive in London mate.

Given your desire to "do the right thing" while everyone else takes the piss out of you, you`d spend a fortnight at every roundabout.

Brian Waring
86   Posted 03/04/2011 at 17:39:59

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Err, what the fuck are you on about Dave???
Dave Wilson
87   Posted 03/04/2011 at 17:57:20

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The law of the jungle Brian. Victims and perpetrators.

When Jagielka felt the slightest brush against his sock, he was duty bound to take a tumble.
Brian Lawlor
88   Posted 03/04/2011 at 18:57:02

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Roman - how do you know the numbers aren't right.

The fact is mate they are. Every one I've quoted. You only need to look through the archives all the way back to November 2009 when I originally revealed what Pienaar and his agent were demanding and how I knew.

Crawl back under your keyboard mate cos no doubt you're another cyber fan who has never even been to Goodison.
Brian Waring
89   Posted 03/04/2011 at 20:14:52

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I know its the in thing now Dave, the slightest touch, and go down as if you've been shot.

What pisses me off though, Dave, the next time it happens against us, we've got no right to complain.

Cheating got us a point yesterday, and even though I thought we deserved to actually win the game, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Gavin Ramejkis
90   Posted 03/04/2011 at 20:53:32

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Brian (#89) ? a shite linesman lost us the point we deserved before that Beckford's goal was over the line.
Roman Sidey
91   Posted 03/04/2011 at 21:14:12

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Brian Lawlor, you've stooped to petty insults, and belittling other fans. Not once have I done that in any of my posts, ever. Thus, I will take the moral high ground and just let you sit on your high horse for the rest of Everton's eternity.

It's comments like "no doubt you're another cyber fan who hs never even been to Goodison" that make this club such a hard sell overseas.

I'm from Australia, have never been able to afford to go to England, let alone Merseyside to attend a match, but as soon as I have enough money, guess where my first port of call will be?

In my younger years, I could just as easily have chosen to support the RS or Man United like all my mates did (fuck, there's even a couple Chelsea and Villa fans in our crew), but, no, I picked this great club. If you have a problem with that, wake up to yourself.

Brian Waring
92   Posted 03/04/2011 at 22:13:17

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Thing is though, Gavin, that one over the line was a tough one to call. I watched it on the net, and even with the replays they showed, it was hard to call, even the commentators weren't sure.
Nick Taylor
93   Posted 03/04/2011 at 22:25:35

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Regarding the performance against Villa, I thought it a very good point considering how depleted we are. People tend to overlook Villa have a strong side who under normal circumstances could be challenging for a top six position. Even when we have had our full compliment of players available, games have been incredibly tight against them over recent seasons, so well done, Blues.

In terms of indvidual performances, I know this might sound crazy, and I am probably inviting ridicule, but there where a few glimpses which suggest it might be worth persevering with Bily.
I know he is an engima, for instance he produced the best ball of the match with a deep cross to the far post which Osman was inches from volleying under the bar, and the turn of the game as well.

With the possible exception of Saha, no-one is more adept at turning in tight situations. When Baines fed balls into him, he showed flashes of his Russian international credentails opening up play on a couple of occasions in the 2nd half.

Unfortunately he also had the worst work rate on show and provided virtually no protection for Baines who had a difficult afternoon containing Downing. I think it's all pyschological with him so there must be a way of shaking him out of his "little boy lost" apathy. Whether that's doing more weights, eating raw steak, or finding out what's the most offensive insult you can level at a Russian before kick off, anything that will light a fire in his belly.
Roman Sidey
94   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:10:27

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I've heard an extended index finger over the top lip is fairly insulting to a Russian. I think it has something to do with Stalin...
Ian Smitham
95   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:34:20

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Gavin, How was he shite? What should he have done, What is the position he should have been be in? Was he in it?
Gavin Ramejkis
96   Posted 03/04/2011 at 23:51:58

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Brian and Ian (as you've joined in) ? the ref's assistant (as they now claim to be called) demand a professional salary as deemed by themselves and the FA as professionals in their field. I was sat in the Park End off centre towards the away fans in my season ticket seat and I could see it was in, no dust shot or anything from twatting the white line.

Ian, the ref's assistant's job is to be online with the ball hence they claim a decent salary for dressing up like a ref and jog up and down the touchline holding one flag (not the hardest job in the world). If you don't realise ,there is also a fourth official in the crowd watching the game too, with plenty of cameras about... it's not beyond the realms of modern technology and replays to think this fourth official might just see a replay and speak to any of the officials on the headsets they employ there and then.

Ian is it my job or the guy getting paid to be in the right place at the right time's job?

Roberto Birquet
97   Posted 04/04/2011 at 02:23:11

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Roman
Having said all that, a draw at home to relegation strugglers isn't good enough, but par for the course this season. The bad luck stories will come loud and clear regards Beckford's goal and Villa's subsequent counter attack. But at the end of the day, we weren't clinical enough at the business end of the pitch, and Moyes obviously fucked something up in the dressing room at half-time.
--------------------
and what, having only one semi-senior striker acquired for nothing (they had a £24 million signing, two shots, two goals), a bench with not one single minute's Premier League experience, and our three main central midfielders out? Yeah, fecking excuses!

Beadle's about!
Jamie Crowley
98   Posted 04/04/2011 at 03:01:04

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Brian:

"Crawl back under your keyboard mate cos no doubt you're another cyber fan who has never even been to Goodison."

Speechless.

Brian, if your goal is to make some of us not fortunate enough to have been as lucky and blessed as you to have been to Goodison feel inferior??.....

Job well done. Just a dickhead comment man. Tool.
Brian Waring
99   Posted 04/04/2011 at 09:20:30

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Gavin, I agree with you re the fourth official. Surely the ref could have asked him to have a look at one of the monitors, I mean, how long would it have taken?

As I say, I watched it on the net, small screen, and the replays they showed weren't from the greatest angle.

At the end of the day, they have got to bring in goalline technology, imagine an incident like that relegating someone.
Dave Wilson
100   Posted 04/04/2011 at 09:36:39

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Brian / Gavin

We would have been relegated but for a decision like that. Bolton eventually went down instead after scoring a perfectly good goal in that game.

Us Evertonians always seem to think the big decisions go against us. It didn't on that occasion.
Ray Roche
101   Posted 04/04/2011 at 09:47:57

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Dave Wilson.

Please don't drag out that old chestnut about Bolton's "goal". Watch it again, Southall was fouled prior to the strike that put the ball over the line. If the ref missed the blatant foul he'll certainly miss a ball going marginally over the line.
Roman Sidey
102   Posted 04/04/2011 at 12:24:05

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Roberto, all those points do suggest a draw was a good result, and I have acknowledged that the squad couldn't have looked any better in our circumstances. What really gripes me on here is people throwing the "£24 million striker" call around.

Sure, Villa paid £24 million for Bent, but, as a January signing, he isn't worth that (just like Carroll and Torres weren't worth their fees).

Bent is a decent, clinical striker, but to talk about him like he had some devine ability to tear us apart is a bit rich.

Two shots - two goals? Well, I did say it was an unacceptable performance.
Andy Callen
103   Posted 04/04/2011 at 12:44:11

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Ryan (#84) Only the FA Cup winners go into Europe. The rule changed a few years ago. Otherwise Pompey would've been in Europe this season as the beaten Finalists after Chelsea qualified for the CL...

So, as mentioned in my original post, Saturday was a missed opportunity. Much in the same way last season turned out.
Gavin Ramejkis
104   Posted 04/04/2011 at 18:40:41

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Brian, I have to wholeheartedly agree with the goal line technology thing and considering the value of the game; about £700k or £800k per league place, even if the goal line cost thousands they'd be a pittance in the bigger picture. A cynic could even say Sky would have that as one of those stupid select a camera angle shots too.

I for the life of me can't understand the point of the fourth official if they can't advise on incidents the ref and assistants might have missed or controversial ones like off the ball fouls or dives, Jags' being a good example, but a few for Young and that hack by Walker whilst Neville was in mid air.

Trevor Lynes
105   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:15:30

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Diving is nothing new and one of the best exponents I ever saw was FRANNIE LEE of Man City who won THIRTEEN penalties in a season, including at least one or two in internationals.

Using a hand to score is just as bad and Bobby Robson's Ipwich of years ago had a center forward named Ray Crawford who scored one of the most blatant goals at Goodison. Robson was being hypocritical when he called Maradona because every professional will cheat to gain an advantage whenever he can... it's a fact!!

How many times do you see centre-backs literally grabbing opposing forwards at corner kicks???

Ian Smitham
106   Posted 04/04/2011 at 20:01:35

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Gavin, Thanks for the comment, but actually the Assistant Referee is paid to be level with the last defender.

There is no scope within the existing laws for the 4th official to be involved in a decision of the nature of what we are discussing and as I am sure we all know, the technology issue is not part of the current decision making process.

I am not saying the existing laws are not open to question, merely that they were followed on Saturday, like or dislike them.

Finally, I would also conclude by pointing out that the Assistant referees are all highly qualified refs in their own right and while they do enjoy a reward package, to be fair, and they are assessed on job all the time, if they were not well remunerated, we would be whinging about standards. If you pay peanuts.....
Gavin Ramejkis
107   Posted 04/04/2011 at 21:52:51

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Ian, the same referees and assistants didn't grow out of pods, they are merely the same men and now women doing the exact same job the day before the FA added the label 'professional' to them, Suddenly becoming professional the next day... (If not care to tell us what happened whilst we were waiting for these new creatures to arrive?).

I've no idea how old you are, Ian, but I'd guess unless you are quite young or still in education that you've worked in an environment with so called "professionals" who are so only in their own heads or labelled to gain higher pay or status or both.

The assistants can also make a call on an event such as a foul or penalty but the final decision is for the referee, the current remit of the fourth official is what exactly then Ian as you seem to know what it is ? a professional that does nothing?

Ian Smitham
108   Posted 05/04/2011 at 00:50:26

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Gavin, thanks for the further response, take it you have no issue with women. Also that you have no issue with the "quite young or in education".

I tried in my earlier post to point out the remit of the "liners" as issued in the "Laws of Association Football"

To be honest, I have no factual idea of the remit of the 4th official, sorry to disappoint you.
Gavin Ramejkis
109   Posted 05/04/2011 at 14:15:55

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Ian, none of us chose our sex ? it's what happens (Andy Gray's nemesis was at GP the other week and she did a decent job I thought) and even I was once young and in education so no problem with that either.
Ian Smitham
110   Posted 05/04/2011 at 23:07:14

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Gavin, in round figures, I think you have it wrong re the "liner". I do not know exactly my view on technology, nor exactly the role of the 4th official.

The "liner" has applied the laws, we can all claim the "common sense" stuff but they are assessed and regulated by laws. The phrase they use is that they are "the policeman, not the judge" ie, they do not write the laws, just apply them.

It was 3 days ago now, we all ge a bit heated, and I for one do not wish to get into a slanging match with a fellow Evertonian, especially a passionate one who, like me, goes to the games.

Olive branch offerred, to an obviously long standing fan, me, just got to age 50 a couple of weeks ago, season ticket holder since circa 1983, and proud that my two boys are also season ticket holders,and even though they don't live with me, i am just as proud that they are just as passionate about the Blues as we both seem to be. Petrol is crippling us as I reckon the round trip from Wilmslow, about 90 miles, is looking like 15-18 quids. Renewed a week ago.

Here's to hoping.
Gavin Ramejkis
111   Posted 06/04/2011 at 09:48:26

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Fair play to you Ian, I'm 42 very soon so you get an idea we've seen the same Everton for years, dread to think how long I've had season tickets, Main Stand then Gwladys and been in Park End for a good few years now, my two boys are under 6 so not taken them to the game yet. My motor (a diesel) cost me £65 to fill it when I bought it less than three years ago is now costing me £98 to fill.
Roman Sidey
112   Posted 07/04/2011 at 04:32:09

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As a young fella, I'm probably in a minority when I say video technology and replays have no place in football. So we may have dropped two points because of a bad call from the ref. I'd gladly take two points off a year if it meant the game didn't halt every time a goal was scored ? which is what happens in rugby league and half the time in rugby and all the time in cricket now.

My only exception would be, if they introduce goal line technology and video replays, the refs have to take a significant pay cut, which they didn't do in either of the three aforementioned ruined-by-tv sports.

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