The End of an Era and a Leap Into the Unknown

Andy, fair do's let's move on, but there's always the niggle that your next girlfriend will fart in bed.

I'm much more afraid than optimistic for the Everton, with the possible exception of Laudrup, there's no manager I want. Calls for Martinez are absolute madness. No matter happens, the next few seasons will be a difficult adjustment.

(he ducks)

Out with the old and in with the new and all that, but just who this 'new' maybe will lead to some interesting times in the coming days or weeks.

Laudrup would be my first choice but would he leave to come to us?Doubt it.

#652, #663 Aidan, Paul. I agree that once DM has left, will wish him well but will be concentrating on what our new manager will be doing at EFC no what former ones are doing 30 odd miles up the East Lancs Road.

Totally agree with you list of "No, no's".

Don't recall reading read much about Bilic lately; but if he were available he'd be in the frame for me.

Thanks Davey!

Also I wonder what agreement he has made with BK ? That they both keep quiet that this was planned for months ? It will indeed be interesting to see how quickly we appoint a successor. You'd think it really should be very soon, because the short-list was already in-place given that Moyes contract was up, right? If not it's just incompetence.

Two paragraphs which produce totally different reactions from me.

Very much agree with the second one, Kenwright must (should) have a short list.

Very much disagree with the first. Why should the Moysiah place any sort of stumbling block in the way of his presumed appointment at Old Trafford.What you're asking is that he signs a contract just so that Kenwiight/Grantchester et al can require a 'transfer fee' to let him go to a job that every manager in the world (with very few exceptions) would give his eye teeth for.

Get real!

I have to say that up to Fergie's announcement, I would have been happy for a change, but now that it seems imminent there's a slight sense of trepidation over who might be appointed. Agree that the Everton job will also have big shoes to fill.

Have to say the board is now under real pressure if Moyes does go... hoping for someone in the mold of Pochettino or Laudrup.

Very very interesting times

As for Martinez being "an advocate of the right way to play the game" - well, yes, that is kind of the point for some of us. I mean, if we're going to be deadly dull then a trophy or two would be appropriate compensation. If not, then I for one want to be entertained. That is the whole point of sport.

Saddly I think BK's ego will be an enormous factor in the next decision. Can he afford to appoint someone who might challenge his 'boys pen' rhetoric? Would he be comfortable with someone who puts football prorities before loyalty to him? somenone who would not be afraid of speaking out? Moyes came from a small club with no genuine record of success and was a massive gamble. I think he recognised the gamble BK took and it has since provided Moyes with the wealth to ensure his family are secure for the rest of their lives. That was repaid through the loyalty he showed and the lack of criticism of BK, although it was showing signs of wearing thin recently. The next appointment will have no need to be so loyal or thankful to BK, it will be more of a job and they will want the right tools to do it i.e. money - will BK, can BK provide it?

So for all our desire and desperate need to take another step forward don't be surprised if BK goes for someone who 'owes him' and wont rock the boat. Someone who is 'thankful' for the chance etc aka Hughes or O'Neill

This next decision will really show whether BK has Evertons interest at heart or, as many of us suspect, an overwhelming desire to keep the train set for himself.

As for Everton this is going to be a massive challenge to be able to appoint someone who with a limited budjet will be expected to match Moyes record of challenging at the top end of the league. Some of the candidates already mentioned fill me with dread. Martinez despite people saying he plays the game the right way all he produces is relegation football. Lennon has no class whatsoever and winning the prem in Scotland with Celtic is hardly rocket science. Lets hope the press are way off the mark and we do appoint someone who can match or better Moyes results.

Finally BK has said that Moyes will be in charge for the West Ham game, I hope the fans give him a great send off, although part of me thinks the atmosphere could be quite unreal on Sunday.

Right now we're guaranteed to stay up but once that potential of Europe goes, so will the big names and then the new guy will have to work Moyes' brilliance in the transfer market.

The manager's on LL's no-no list will take us back to the pack, but Bilic has the big Mourinho style personality were you can see us pushing on... but he's got a WC in a year (fnar...). I don't see why we have to go down to the championship when we're chasing CL, so the Porto guy is interesting.

Surely we want someone who's won something!

In the four seasons they have both managed in the top flight at the same time the stats are:

Everton Scored 213 conceded 172 goal difference +41
Wigan scored 163 conceded 269 goal difference -106

So, Moyes team score more goals and concede less than Martinez's therefore his teams are better at attacking and defending

Always with David Moyes' tenure the key words are trotted out - "consistency, stability"
For the man himself I would add "integrity, honesty". To the partnership of Moyes and Kenwright, I would add "stagnation"

Thank you David Moyes for steadying the ship and improving our lot and ambitions immensely from the dark days of Walter

Unfortunately, while your time in charge moved us away from struggling to keep our heads above water to paddling comfortably in the shallow end, it produced some of the lowest lows in the history of Everton Football Club
Good luck in your new job, I've signed the card and stuck a fiver in the collection
We're Everton - let's move on

In terms of managers, I would generally agree with your list with one exception. Personally, I still think MON is a very good manager. Not sure what went wrong at Sunderland but at all previous clubs (Leicester, Celtic and Villa) he was successful. The fact that he resigned from Villa over lack of funds and selling of their best players might be a non-no for BK though.

Strange days indeed.

When Moyes goes to Man Utd I won't be wishing him well. I hate that team more than Liverpool. 11 years without a trophy will do very nicely.

Following injury or surgery, it's well known that most people don't remember pain. The body's reaction is to forget about it as a coping mechanism. It seems the same is so with Everton fans and David Moyes. For the most part during Moyes' tenure we have been absolute fucking crap to watch. Even when we've won it's been crap as a spectacle. I gave up my season ticket mainly because we were such crap to watch. I've never understood why Moyes chose to play so defensive all the time at home against relegation sides to then draw or win only by the odd goal from a set piece. Even now when we pass it round more, we still end up scoring from route 1 or resorting to just lumping it up to Fellaini.

Moyes holds all of our worst records:

Worst ever goals scored tally in a season.
Worst ever home defeat.
Worst ever away defeat.
Worst ever European defeat.

He has a 40% win ratio. In his 11 years, he's brought through the grand total of 6 youth team players. He has ruined every striker we've had.

This whole net spend argument is complete crap too. It's funny because we used to shout at the RS about Benitez's gross spend and they used to offer his net spend as a counter argument. Now Moyes' net spend is being used to laud him as a complete genius. Moyes' gross spend puts him in the top 8 of premier league spenders. So we've hardly punched above our weight, have we?

I'm glad he's gone. I don't look forward to all the romantic clap trap that will be published from fans with short memories. We should be at Wembley this weekend but for Moyes' shocking capitulation to Wigan yet it now seems everyone will be congratulating him in his last home game against West Ham.

Good riddance to the best PE teacher Everton have ever had!

NOT Martinez. He has been around for so long, and only seem to specialize at avoiding relegation, which he might not this season.

NOT Hughes. Whatever creditability he has was marred in the way he treated Fulham, and destroyed after QPR.

If we are getting either Martinez or Hughes, I rather we give it to the bootroom team, Stubbs, and why not Sheedy and Big Dunc? At least you know that these guys won't be fleecing the club, as their loyalties are genuine.

I rate Ian Buchan as our best ever PE teacher/manager as he didn't stay as long

You forgot to mention...
lowest ever points total
FA cup defeat to lowest ever opposition
lost 2 derbys while having more players on the pitch
10 men behind the ball, 0 -3 down in a home FA Cup quarter...

Still, he steadied the ship and brought us stability, consistency and built a decent, workmanlike, though uninspring team

Alan's "PE Teacher" reminded me of Ian Buchan too.

I'd never heard of him before he came to Goodison; and (thank God) never heard of him after he departed.

By the way, my memory is that he was never Manager, only ever Chief Coach.

If we get another one like him the MOB will realise what they've been wishing for all this time.

All this malarkey thogh - makes me realise Gordon Lee wasn't so bad; Latch, Dobson, Dave Thomas ... sigh

Martinez may have his teams passing the ball around but his lack of success at Swansea and Wigan are evidence of his inadequacy.

For me his teams are too laid back with not enough grit and determination.

They are all overrated. Moyes is overrated — I cannot understand how he lasted 11 years and then got the Man Utd job. Martinez is overrated: Wigan are nearly relegated every season. Is that a good job?

We live in a world of overrated people.

Alan 932, sorry to hear you gave up your season ticket due to the poor football on show, but I feel you must make allowance for the state of the club and the team he inherited from Walter and the financial state of the club. It would be interesting to list the players in Walter's last game v Middlesbrough and compare with our side today. I have shared your frustrations as the team failed to perform against lowly opposition at home but have been delighted by some of the flair football we have played this season. Best since the brief spell in mid 90's with Kanchelskis and Limpar.

No manager is perfect and I don't think anyone will say that he was perfect, but would doubt if any other manager could have done as good a job over the past 11 years with the club in a constant state of recession. Comparisons with past records are not valid as we had different circumstances then and now, when the club could break transfer records and attract the best players in the pre CL era.

I wish him all the best and thanks for all his dedicated work and hope we can attract a worthy successor, up for the challenge of top end PL achievement with a Championship budget.

Should read.

I cannot understand how Moyes lasted 11 years and then got the Man Utd job.

Also I would like to add. Lyndon my sentiments wholeheartedly.

He is also not alone in being beaten 7-0.

If you are going to highlight the biggest European defeat, then you should also mention the biggest European victory. I am also curious as how you judge him bringing youth players through.

Some of the hatred towards him has gone to such unnatural levels that I still expect this will be debated on here when he's manager of United. I suspect it will sicken a few if he starts winning leagues and Champions Leagues. Lets hope Roberto will come in and put Anichebe in midfield then we'll be saved from that dour, tactically inept PE teacher who's now in charge of the biggest team in the world - boss.

I don't particularly care whether he becomes the most successful manager of all time or falls flat on his face, he belongs to Man Utd now so onto the next guy; that's the way it works — that's the way it has always worked. I didn't get goosebumps when Rooney scored his first goal for Man Utd, I didn't hate him for doing so either, it's just the way things go.

I will still look at their results at ten to five, the same way I looked for Norwichs results when Vaughan was there, and Fulham when AJ was there etc

That's not to say I'll be sitting down to watch Utd games though...

If we ever got close to challenging them at the top then obviously I'd be wishing nothing but ill on them but as the current events have so painfully illustrated we may as well be legaues apart. If it came down to who would I rather see doing well out of Moyes, Wenger, Benitez/Mourinho, or Mancini then in my mind Moyes is the lesser of those evils.

Let's now get Laudrup.

And you know full well ToffeeWeb will get all the blame !

And I think it also highlights the biggest fear that most of us have.

There *is* an opportunity here. To refresh our approach based on the very solid foundation that Moyes built.

And there likes the crux of the matter. When was the last time this Everton board and this owner grabbed an opportunity instead of fucking it up?

Yes a leap into the unknown, or if some are correct and we appoint Martinez it could be a leap into the dark. I really hope we don't get him I don't want to see his happy smiley face saying we were a little unlucky today and apart from 3 or 4 mistakes could possibly have got a draw. He never seems angry or upset when his teams lose they reflect his style which is very matter of fact. I want my manager to be passionate about how we have played and I don't see any passion in Martinez, could you imagine Ferguson smiling after Utd have been beaten exactly!!

Thanks for steadying the ship, and good luck a Utd ('cos you'll need it).

Does this mean everything at ToffeeWeb is going to be cuddly and warm for a while? No more Moyes in/ Moyes out scrappin and a cussin'. I can feel the stress and tension falling off this iPad. Love is all around us brothers.

.........until Mark Hughes takes over.

And I don't care what the Man Utd board see, I know what I have seen. You've seen an outstanding manager, I've seen an overrated nearly man. We will see.

But as a fellow Evertonian I hope you think I'm right about him. They are Man Utd after all.

The guy has won promotion with Swansea, has the potential to win an FA Cup too; what has Moyes won in his entire career?

Criticising Martinez getting wigan into relegation trouble is also a bit weak. After all he's managing Wigan on nearly half the wage budget that we have, which is amongst the lowest of all the clubs in the premier league, and he has managed to keep them in the top league thus far. They certainly didn't look like the paupers at Goodison a few weeks ago.

Whether he'd be any good for us or not I don't know, but I wouldn't be disappointed with either him or Laudrup. I'd be really pissed off(and worried) if it were any of the dross Lyndon mentions in his no-no list.

I find Nicks assertion that PL survival was/is guaranteed under Moyes an idiotic statement to make. I'd tipped us for relegation a few times after Moyes typically slow starts to the season....and the season we finished 15th. No team is guaranteed not to get relegated, certainly not us.

Strangely I'm almost as interested in how Moyes will get on at Utd as to who we'll get next. How Moyes would cope with money, or at a big club has been discussed to death here. We'll finally get a chance to see.

And whoever it was remembered the tenure of Gordon Lee fondly clearly wasn't there.

But it does not air the many criticisms that have been made of him, making only passing reference to his "conservatism" and "doubts about his mentality".

In response to Kev and Alan Clarke who had a similar view: the thrust of the article was supposed to be illustrating the stability that Moyes has brought to Everton and the danger we now face in regressing now that he is gone.

I could have expounded at length at how infuriating he has been at times and mentioned the number of times I told myself out loud how much I hated watching his teams at times but a) the piece was long enough and b) the fact remains that he has built a team that came very close to making the top four this season.

Yes, the standard of football has been poor for long periods of his tenure but over the last two or three seasons, Everton have been playing the best football we have seen at Goodison since the 1980s. Moyes's problem was that he couldn't get them to do it consistently but he was eventually able to build a team capable of producing it.

And you can bang on about gross spend all you like but the fact remains that between August 2009 and January 2012, he was not able to buy a single senior-level player. Depending on what funds are available this coming summer, we might now find out whether he was supremely adept at working within almost impossible financial constraints for a top-six team. Until then, I'm prepared to give credit where I think enormous credit is due.

I do wish David Moyes well, even if he come s back for Baines etc. Noww is the time to sell Baines anyway (IMO). I think David going is the best for both clubs, we both need a change. I do think he will do ok with a bigger budget and better squad.

As for us - i'd take Martinez over the likes of Hughes, Big Sam, Lennon, and MM, et al but i'd like to see a Di Mateo, Zola, Laudrop, Puyet and my first choice solskjaer.

The mob demand a trophy or a top 4 finish like you can just flick a switch and get it. Yes, all these football experts have all the answers that the rest of the football industry spend millions on and largely fail with. The experts that consistently said he was useless, incapable of landing a big job, Dour Davy and all that.

I totally agree on the long list of rejects, which highlights just how poor the fare is and the risk that Bill will make a complete horlicks of it to follow the long list of shame. I would personally go for Laudrap. He has the name, plays a good style and understands a couple of overseas markets to tap players for. Other than that, I'd hope for inspirational largely unknown foreign choice, a Wegner mark 2.

Personally, I feel like i'm staring into a black hole. I'm not sure if a train is going to come charging out to flatten me or perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised.

Either way, this feeling won't go away until (1) the new manager is announced and (2) we sign some players and kick the season off in some semblance of style.

He steadied the ship and did a good job but his history will also show some nasty stats, worst points ever, biggest euro defeat etc and them stats show more than finishing 6th or 7th.

Let's move on, this is Everton FC.

SAF as director Moyes as manager

Busby as director, manager...

Wilf McGuiness

He was a hired hand who was incredibly well paid and who kept Kenwright safe but won nothing. There is a lot to admire about his tenure but lets not eulogise about a man whose achievements are above average and no more. He's gone, we are Everton and we are much, much more than David Moyes.

Always been a big advocate of DM. But this whole "end of season" sit down was bollocks. Plus he can say what he wants about having no money but that does not excuse Wigan at home. That was purely his selection error. That's the reason we have no final and no Europe this season.

But what has annoyed me more is the way we were but a footnote in the hours and hours of media coverage. You'd think they were awaiting the next Head of State, not the next manager of a corporation followed by lots of shirt buying idiots who have no link to the club. Nobody ever mentioned how disrespectful the speculation yesterday was to the 4th most successful club in English football. Nobody ever gave our fans a care. Plus why did Manure have to do it now? Would it have really hurt to wait for another fortnight when our season was over?

Manure think they're imperious hence why they can cherry pick who they want. Well EFC have more class. I hope everyone round our club doesn't speculate on managers still with other clubs like Swansea and Wigan which is disrespectful to them and their fans. What will be will be but I hope we show more class than the host of pundits and ex Manure players that came out with comments yesterday.

As for Moyes, I hope he fails. I loved him in Blue. Don't give a **** what he does in red. In fact I think Manure might have a nasty surprise coming their way as City and Chelsea are going to be coming for them.

But let's hope the new boy takes us on a step and our experienced defence know enough to keep the goals conceded to a minimum.

He's got red hair, what he does next? Don't care.

Now clear favorite with all the bookies.

I expect any manager to work within the financial constraints of the football club(without complaint), develop youth players(to ultimately improve the viability of the club) and give the players the belief and confidence to play to the best of their ability in every game. Entertaining football would be good too.

I'd ask for the same with any manager who comes in. If manager X came in and we finished in 10th, but the financial situation was vastly improved because we'd actually started using our academy players instead of highly paid mercs then I'd be a happy man.

Conversely, Moyes can finish 6th every season, but have the club borrowing every last penny it can to sustain the non-performing Naismith and Neville on huge salaries while our youth players are ignored and I'll be getting slightly annoyed, despite the higher placed finish.

My opinion is that only by getting rid of some of the debt that is crippling us can we start to bridge the gap between ourselves and the teams currently above us. I've no doubt such a process will involve some lower placed finishes than we have been used to, but sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward.

Looking at the list in the TW poll it's mostly a bunch of also ran. Personally, if I had to select one on the list I'd go for Laudrop or Di Matteo.

Everton is a bigger club that we often give it credit for and (obviously 'de munnee' is important) we should be able to attract a guy with a winning mentality and great interpersonal skills. Moyes will be a difficult act to follow but, as we all know, he wasn't perfect.
COYB

More importantly who do we bring in. Laudrup is a good choice but too expensive... My vote went to Di Matteo, I just feel he's a perfect fit: he's young, hungry and has shown he can lead a team at the highest level. I'm sure the main criteria for Kenwright will be someone that won't rock the boat and I think RDM can strike the balance.

If Hughes is even considered then I will lose respect for the club.

What a tit. Yes he's been a good manager and I will always have a lot of respect for him. But really? Tears in your eyes, "Everton FC must continue in the David Moyes tradition".

I can't believe this prick. Pull yourself the fuck together and represent our club. Say your thanks to Moyes privately, acknowledge him publicly, and then look after Everton Football Club.

David Moyes tradition!!! Fuck off.

It was the same when Rooney left. Then Lescott. But then we had Davie Moyes who could rebuild the side again. But now Davie’s gone. Davie Moyes, the man who gave us back our respect and allowed us to dream again.

He inherited a club unable to shake off the need for an annual relegation fight. He was given a transfer kitty of £803,000 a year to change our fortunes. With this pitiful sum he achieved two things. Firstly, he got us into the top eight of the Premier League and secondly, most amazingly, he kept us there. How did he do that? On £803,000 a year, how did he keep us, year-in, year-out, in the top eight of the Premier League for the best part of ten years?

Right from the beginning there was spirit, fight and organisation. When you played Everton, you knew you were in for a game. His success in the transfer market has been well documented but Moyes also has the ability to vastly improve the players he buys and works with. Best examples in the current squad are Jagielka and Baines. Compare the players they were when Moyes bought them and the players they are now. Moyes the transformer.

Alex Ferguson has been described as the best manager of all time. Perhaps he has just made his shrewdest decision. We Evertonians hated the expression ‘punching above their weight’. Just imagine if Manchester United punch above their weight.

Thanks Davie. Thanks for all your work. In my mind I’ll always have this image: Man City, the reigning champions are at Goodison. It’s towards the end of the game and we’re leading 1-0 but nothing is certain yet. Then, from just outside the City area Jelavic smacks the ball past Hart to make it 2-0. Moyes runs onto the pitch, jumps up and punches the air. The ground explodes into a din of ecstasy. We are as one. We believe.

Unless Everton suddenly find some investment or get extremely lucky in their choice of next manager, there is only one way our football club can go. And it ain’t up.

Thanks again Davie. I’ve admired your management for the last ten years and I’ve had one recurring thought. “Just imagine what he could do if he had some money”. Now we’re about to find out. But this wasn’t what I had in mind. This was not my dream.

The teams above are pulling in champions league money, corporate match going money, etc. We continue to have restricted views, renting our own training ground and going hand to mouth paying £4m plus interest a season and struggling to renegotiate the overdraft. We are constantly left wide open to any decent bid for our key players, others aren't.

United get more a season from the sponsor of the training kit than we get from Chang and Kit Bag combined. All other clubs are moving forward except us. It's like the UK with growth of 0.5% trying to close the gap on China.

I am not going to have a pop at someone supplementing the squad with Naismith and Neville, when he had fuck all transfer budget for the last 4 years. The holy grail of bringing a clutch of young players is a myth. The premier league spends probably upwards of £100m a season on the academies and transfer fees for the stars of the future, and get a return of nought. The clubs would do better donating it to a local division 1 club and having first dibs on youth players at very low values.

Yes I want better. I want Everton to be the world team of the year like in 85. Moyes leaving will not change that the Bullens Road smells of piss and Kenright is skint. If those were changed then we'd close the gap above. I live in hope.

COYB