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And Then There Were Three?

By Lyndon Lloyd   ::  31/05/2013 As Everton's search for a successor to David Moyes appears to wind down - it's possible we'll know by Monday who will be filling the Goodison hotseat - there seems to be plenty of impatience around at the time it is taking Bill Kenwright to make his decision.

Though there is plenty of scope for arguing that the administration was naive or remiss in allowing Moyes's contract to run down, thereby exposing the Club to the risk of receiving no compensation for his departure and being left without a manager for the first time in 11 years, no one really knows the full situation.

Setting that argument aside, I must be in the minority who are perfectly comfortable with Bill taking his time over what is a huge decision. Whatever your views on Moyes, he unquestionably delivered consistency through almost complete control over the playing side of the club and a patient evolution of the squad on meagre resources. Those won't be easy shoes to fill so it behooves the Chairman to take as much time as he needs to make the best decision for Everton. 

His approach thus far has been encouragingly methodical: internal candidates, out-of-contract options and now working, external candidates have been interviewed in succession.

Though the media and bookies have installed Roberto Martinez as the overwhelming favourite, it doesn't look as though Bill is merely paying lip service to the process; instead he appears to be exploring a number of varying options. 

I for one very hope so because while Evertonians appear to be largely favour of Martinez, the prospect of him becoming Everton's next manager leaves me feeling incredibly underwhelmed. There is no question that he comes across as a thoroughly decent bloke and his credentials as a student of the game and an exponent of attacking football are also very positive attributes.

As has been done to death by Evertonians on forums and websites in recent days, though, the defensive frailties of his teams are a cause of major concern. As is the fact that in the Premier League he has underperformed both Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce in terms of league position, culminating this season, of course, in Wigan's relegation.

His performance is only partly mitigated by the Latics' FA Cup triumph and the comparatively smaller wage levels he has been able to offer the players he has signed. As previous winners - and top-flight casualties - like Portsmouth have demonstrated, knockout competitions are inherently very different from the nine-month grind of the League.

Martinez may well have succeeded in terms of landing a trophy where Moyes has thus far failed with better players, but there shouldn't be an Evertonian alive who would take a one-off trophy over a place in the Premier League.

Truthfully, the gut feel is that he would not be a disastrous appointment but I'd be concerned at what happens when the current defensive rocks of Sylvain Distin and Phil Jagielka are no longer in the picture. At the end of the day - and I'd love to be proved wrong if he does get the job - he doesn't feel like the kind of appointment for a top-six team. Not when he's just taken a team down, shipping a ton of goals in the process.

The notion that Bill is hiring for a club that didn't fall all that short of the Champions League this past season should also immediately discount an internal hire. None of Phil Neville, David Weir, Alan Stubbs or Duncan Ferguson have any of the required experience - each would need time in an assistant manager's role or in the lower leagues before they could be considered for the Everton job and, if the latest press speculation is correct, it would seem that the Chairman agrees.

That media speculation appears to be pointing to two other candidates beyond Martinez in the form of Vitor Pereira and Ralf Rangnick. With Martinez possessing the significant advantage of prior Premier League experience, there is no denying that both the Portuguese and the German represent indeterminately large risks.

For me, however, they are both very intriguing options. Though operating in the comparatively less challenging landscape of Portugal, Pereira has won two league titles, has experience of the Champions League and an impressive win percentage.

There are conflicting opinions over his abilities as a manager and his potential to manage in England, but the precedent set by Jose Mourinho and Andre Villas-Boas certainly stands him in good stead.

Frankly, though we know comparatively little about him, he appeals because of the promise of some Continental influence and a fresh approach to the more staid methods of the Moyes era.

Rangnick, meanwhile, seems to offer a more technical alternative and his appeal lies more in the fact that he seems to have a more professorial knowledge of the game, knows how to build a team of players who work for each other and, like Martinez, appears to favour attacking football.

Of all the external candidates that Bill is reported to have been interested in him, the Rangnick option feels like it has Moyes's fingerprints on it. Having taken as much interest in the Bundesliga as he has in recent years, Moyes may well have highlighted to Kenwright the qualities of the former Schalke boss and urged him to consider the 54 year-old as a possibility. In the absence of any real knowledge of him, any Moyes stamp of approval would be a big plus for many Blues.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't fancy going outside of the Premier League for a more adventurous appointment than Martinez. There are, of course, big risks associated going with an untried manager from a foreign league and it's true that Pereira or Rangnick - or Bielsa, Tuchel or any of the other more intriguing but thus far untouched (by English clubs) managers - could be the next Juande Ramos but they could also be the next Villas-Boas, Wenger, Hiddink or Laudrup.

Bill have a much greater sense from meeting all of these candidates than we will. It goes without saying that we just have to hope he makes the right decision!

Reader Comments

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Anthony Hawkins
424 Posted 31/05/2013 at 07:31:11
Whilst I've never heard of Rangnick I'd take him or Pereira over Martinez.
Paul Jamieson
428 Posted 31/05/2013 at 07:52:27
I just don't trust Kenwright at all, I just pray he doesn't go with his instinct in the hope he may accidentally get it right!

Let's hope you're right, Lyndon, and Moyes's recommendation is listened to, just as Walter Smith's was in the appointment of Moyes!

Chris James
429 Posted 31/05/2013 at 07:21:43
Great and balanced article as always Lyndon. I too completely share your comfort in Kenwright taking time to consider options properly and it does seem like the process is being managed pretty sensibly from what we're seeing - giving internal staff the chance to stake their claim and understand where they stand and if they have thoughts/advice is both respectful and smart (I'm not so bothered about loosing Round, but I'd like to keep some continuity with the youth setup in place and possibly Neville as a number 2).

After that he's weighing up/ talking to a range of European and out of contract options with an initial list of 8 or so apparently being whittled down to 3 or 4. I think that Martinez experience makes him an obvious favourite on one hand, but the fact that experience has been mainly in the lower echelons of the league should count strongly against him. Winning one of the tin pots is a great achievement but I for one wouldn't be happy with a day at Wembley if it meant a relegation scrap or prospect of loosing premier league status.

For me the German is the most attractive choice. Champions League semi final is much more where I'd like Everton to be in a few years, he's also won a few cups in Germany (equivalent of FA and League), some decent league positions and seems to have done well at a variety of clubs, including those who are a similar position to Everton in that league (i.e. not nec consistent top 4). It's also fair to say that 'ze German model' is looking pretty strong now, in terms of the way clubs are sustainably run, the development of youth and obviously performance on the pitch in Europe.

Sure, the fact he resigned due to exhaustion is a concern (he also left Hoffenheim after successive promotions when they sold a player without his knowledge but that displays Moyes-esque character/principals) but if he gets Everton to a position where they can whip Inter 7-3 in the CL and then fancies a break I'd give him that!

In fact the more I think about this, the more excited I get. German football is certainly a lot closer to FPL in terms of physicality, directness and competitiveness than the Portuguese league, he plays attacking football and a decent win record (higher than Moyes on average). Come on Bill, let's crack out some weiss bier and the sauerkraut and give Ralf a go!

Ian Bennett
430 Posted 31/05/2013 at 07:55:18
Another piece of top writing. It is being stretched out, but I understand we have to get it right.

What baffles me away from us is Stoke, they have very decent resources and end up hiring Mark Hughes. Decent stadium due to be expanded to 43k, decent transfer budget and a good chairman. Mark Hughes...., I mean could they not have aimed a bit higher, Brian Little, Dave Basset, John Gregory, would all be a step up on this disaster case.

Christopher Kelly
431 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:09:49
Great post Lyndon.

I agree, Chris, The Chuurrman seems like a good choice.

So glad Moyes is gone. At least it's interesting again. It's been Groundhog Day around Goodison for 11 years.

Jim Potter
434 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:01:58
I'd willingly take any of the 3 over an inexperienced internal candidate. Thank God that Hughes is no longer even remotely in the equation (thank you Stoke).

Rangnick - I've never heard of before this morning - but his CV appears impressive - and given the current healthy state of German football I would think he could only be a good addition.

Colin Glassar
435 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:26:52
We're lost for choice now aren't we? Who'd have thought that after dour Dave we'd be linked to three exciting managers like Martinez! Pereira and Ragneck?
Peter Truin
437 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:28:30
I'm personally leaning towards the German fella,never fancied Martinez,one cup doesnt constitute anything near the experience required to become Everton boss,I know Moyes had much less when he took over but the landscape has changed since then and we ave a lot more ambition now.

Ian Bennett 430

Agree with you with regard to Hughes(what has he ever done to command these jobs? I'm baffled) but where do you get 43k at Stoke? From what I'm led to believe they were filling in a corner of the stadium to take the capacity to just over 30k

Robin Hunuki
440 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:21:55
Lyndon, quality write up as always mate.

I too take comfort that the chairman is taking time in picking the right man for the job.

Not a fan of RM however should be take the position, ill be backing him to the hilt.

German guy +1

Mark Palmer
442 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:28:49
Everton's failings over Moyes's reign has been to roll over for the big boys too often. I've been cheering for Mattinez thus far but if Rangnick has the pedigree of bloodying the noses of richer clubs and can provide the tactical savvy to compete in Europe then I'll bid Martinez adios and say a big guten tag to Randnick. I trust Bill to make the call.
Ken Buckley
445 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:27:39
Isn't it exciting. Then there were three or is it four or maybe more. Could the new manager be revealed next Monday? I get the feeling that the ones interviewed have all been mentioned by Moyes and now its up to Bill which he feels is the right fit for the Board, fans and club. Take your time Bill I wish for you to be touched by Midas.
Matt Traynor
446 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:51:37
Good analysis Lyndon. I'm also, like a few others, underwhelmed with the prospect of Martinez, but will get behind him fully if he's appointed. (I did for Mike Walker FFS!)

One thing I'm interested in is this idea that as Moyes had so much control of things, that it's possibly something we'd move away from? I know it's been said that he won't get the same kind of control at Man U, but I think there's going to be a transition period, especially whilst Taggart is around for a couple of years to help.

The talk of Moyes having total control goes against what other posters have said about him not bothering with the youth teams etc. but, in any event, I don't think we have the set up to change it and the new man will be Moyes II unless he wants to change it? It's not just a case of changing job titles - people in these posts have to be either experienced or able to pick it up quickly.

James Lauwervine
447 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:52:26
Excellent article Lyndon and you sum up my feelings about Martinez perfectly. I also think Kenwright seems to be taking a considered approach to the whole thing, he appears to understand the immense importance of the appointment, though as chairman and a fan that should be a given. Rangnick was not on my radar at all (nor any other Evertonians by the sound of it), but I'm liking the look of him from the bit of reading up I've done this morning. I'm becoming quite excited about the whole thing in fact, though I'll be disappointed if it ends up being Martinez.
Ed Staunton
451 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:01:09
Mark, I trust Bill to make the call, strange times indeed!

Yes I would take Portugal or Germany before Spain.

Sam Hoare
454 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:23:13
I think if this is indeed the final list of three then its not a bad list at all considering some of the other possibilities. I think Rangnick, though something of a wild card, could just prove to be an inspired choice. However nothing is certain and even if BK could tempt Fergie out of retirement it would still be a an uncertain risk.

How about Rangnick as director of football, pereira as manager with Stubbs as no 2?

Clive Lewis
456 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:29:59
Good article Lyndon, summed it all up really. Should we take the gamble without the warnings?
Ajay Gopal
459 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:32:46
I will stick with RM, thank you very much. Perreira and Rangnick will be bigger risks than Martinez - trust me, RM will soon be a great manager. Just like I thought Moyes & Everton were a perfect match for each other until Moyes thought that he was bigger than Everton, I think Martinez and Everton are a match made in heaven. However, if it was one of the other 2, I would support them, of course.
Gavin Wadeson
460 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:32:47
Excellent summary, Lyndon. I completely understand why you are underwhelmed by Martinez, but I think it's a little unbalanced to argue that Paul Jewell & Steve Bruce finished higher in the league, without also pointing out that Martinez reduced Wigan's wage bill by 22%, and spent £10m less on transfer fees than Jewell & Bruce. Bearing in mind the results of both ToffeeWeb polls, I also think that Laudrup deserved more of a mention! Allegedly, he's fell out with the Swansea board because they lied to him about how much would be available for transfers in the summer. Who knows, he could be one of the 3 on the shortlist...
Ian Bennett
462 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:51:35
Peter - you're right they have planning to get it to 30k. I has seen something had been posted up that the aspiration is 43k, but it could be bollocks.
Kevin Tully
465 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:43:21
All three candidates are a gamble, but are the best of what's available.

Very surprised (but happy) we are looking abroad, trying to get some added value by appointing a tactical genius, rather than a tried & tested, football by numbers British manager from the lower Leagues. I agree this must on the recommendation of the outgoing manager - this doesn't fit with Bill's M.O. at all.

I would still plump for Martinez after hearing what people inside the game have to say about him. I have read a lot of articles describing his character, and most importantly, all the players say they would pull their tripe out for him. This can trump any tactical master plan, if the players really take to your personality.

He is not a volatile character, whereas the other two candidates may be prone to throwing a strop, something we cannot afford. Martinez has served his time in the lower Leagues with Swansea, his 4 years in the Prem have given him the valuable experience the others do not have. He knows the opposition, and how they play.

Would not be unhappy with any of the above though - just please do not give the job to any current reserve coaches / ex players. Not enough experience, and a good chance they have not earned the respect of the first team to be manager.

Brian Harrison
466 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:41:56
Lyndon excellent piece and I agree that it is more important that BK gets it right rather than rushes the decision. I think like some others that David Moyes may have suggested Rangnick, and reading his CV what a good choice he might turn out to be. The only worry for me is that many in the press are speculating that BK is to have a second interview with Martinez, hopefully to tell him he has been unsuccessful. Although I fear it could be to discuss his contract and if terms can be agreed he will be appointed manager before the weekend is out.
Steve King
468 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:50:15
If the new manager is genuinely one of the three listed in this article, then I am a happy evertonian this morning.

Martinez is far from inspiring but certainly a huge improvement on some of the other names that were mentioned and favoured by the bookies in the early stages.

As for Rangnick, as Lyndon suggests, this has Davey's recommendation all over it. I don't know much about the man but Shalke suddenly appeared on everyone's radar a few years ago as a strong european team. If he's the man responsible then he has my backing.

Then there's Pereira. Probably the highest risk of the three. But after years of playing it safe, theres something quite tempting about taking a risk!!

If any of these three come in I'll be happy to keep buying a ticket, in fact I'll be excited to see how we play! Something that feels long overdue.

David Midgley
469 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:28:29
How would it work with Ralf Rangnick and Renee Muelensteen as his first team coach ?

Pereira doesn't speak English so maybe getting his ideas, methods and philosophy across might be a problem.

However of late the German model seems to be exciting,strong and reliable with a good work ethic[ which we have]

Renee was first team coach at Man U. for years ,he has just left after being offered the lower position of youth coach by DM. The style and the way that they have played football at United over the last six or seven years speaks for itself. He obviously knows his stuff.

With Ralf at the helm and Renee on the bridge beside him to introduce him to the premier league and guide him. Could the "S.S. EVERTON" go places.

It's just a thought.

Mark Eaton
474 Posted 31/05/2013 at 09:51:55
I really like that idea Sam. Let Rangnick deal with more of the off-field matters. Pereira can concentrate wholly on tactics.

Rangnick can put his experience to good effect and it wouldn't be as stressful as a manager's role. Pereira is regarded by many in Portugal as a great tactician.

I have seen a good few comments suggesting Pereira is a big risk. That he may not be another Mourinho or AVB. Well he may well not be another Mourinho. But he could well be better than AVB:

He was assistant to AVB at Porto (when he was regarded by some as the tactical mastermind behind their success). Since then AVB has come to the Premier League. His time at Chelsea was a bit inconclusive and his position in the league with Spurs is much inflated by the influence of Gareth Bale.

Porto have gone on to win the league twice more under Pereira, having sold some of their big names. So I am reckoning Pereira does have very sound tactical acumen, a proven winner on a season-long basis!

Robin Hunuki
479 Posted 31/05/2013 at 08:21:55
Lyndon, quality write up as always mate.

I too take comfort that the chairman is taking time in picking the right man for the job.

Not a fan of RM however should be take the position, ill be backing him to the hilt.

German guy +1

Steve Bell
480 Posted 31/05/2013 at 10:07:19
So all DM's publicity about one day working in Germany and his admiration of the bundesleague (spelling?) plus all the rumours about him going to Schalke might have been a smokescreen.

As he already knew he wasn't signing a new contract, was it all a clever ploy to influence BK's thinking toward a German coach?

Very interesting mien herr.

Adam Fenlon
485 Posted 31/05/2013 at 10:55:23
At least no-one's talking Harry bloody Redknapp any more (touch wood).
Derek Thomas
489 Posted 31/05/2013 at 10:31:10
If as you say Lyndon that Moyes may have recommended Rangnick then it's a rousing chorus of Deutchland uber alles from me. But it would be one out of the box from Bill... does he have it in him to make such a ' courageous ' decision.

This is the 2nd biggest decision in the Club's history since 1892 and he's already fucked up the KD

Mark Pierpoint
495 Posted 31/05/2013 at 11:05:00
A decent write up Lyndon. Well written. I do think you miss out a few points about Martinez though;

1) What Gavin as pointed out. It is key if you are going to try and compare the Wigan managers
2) don't ignore the fact that over the last 6-7 years the Premier League has changed considerably. Bigger clubs have entered the league. Southampton, Stoke, Birmingham, Wolves, QPR, Newcastle. This has squeezed Wigan considerably. They have often started a League season having lost their best players and still with smaller budgets than the promoted teams.


My choice would be Martinez. Concerned about Keegan style resignations of Rangnick, and sadly, the very fact he quit his last managerial post over exhaustion ( obviously don't want to speculate on someones health too much)

Pereira. Proper unknown quantity. The biggest risk for me. Can't see him being here for the long haul whether he is successful or unsuccessful either. I think this is an issue, whereas Martinez I can.

Overall I would support any of them. Choice would be Martinez though. Not a great deal between any of them though

Kevin Hudson
505 Posted 31/05/2013 at 11:33:33
I have a sneaky feeling that it's smoke & mirrors with Bill, and that he's already made his mind up on Martinez being the safe option.

That said, I would be way more enthused by a relatively unknown overseas quantity who actually has experience of being at the top-end of a league, rather than a relegation scrapper.

Roberto's made a big leap, and put his cards on the table, but a step-up is now needed.

David Stuart
507 Posted 31/05/2013 at 11:40:47
I get a strong smell of bullshit in my nostrils every time I see Roberto Martinez, I can't help but think he's all fluff and no substance. I hope I'm wrong as he looks certain to get it and I can't cope with that smell much longer - I'm getting a headache from it.
Ed Fitzgerald
508 Posted 31/05/2013 at 11:40:32
All appointments in any business are a gamble as success and failure are dependent upon other factors not just the leader. I think Kenwright is doing the right thing by taking his time and I am not a fan of our chairman.

There never any safe options ever, I am pleased that all three of the front runners have a expansive approach to the game. I just don't want an internal appointment. I see Alan Irvines gone to Man U as well. I think Utd have taken a far bigger gamble with Moyes.

Sid Logan
513 Posted 31/05/2013 at 10:52:07
Lyndon that was an enjoyable and interesting read - as always.

Listening to Bill's responses over the past few days; taking account of the 3 candidates who now appear to be in the frame; and given the fact that the announcement is imminent my initial nervousness has all but disappeared.

I would be happy, to varying degrees, with any of the candidates being mentioned. For me the overriding satisfaction is that none of a whole bunch of frightening possibilities now looks to be likely!

The sudden entrance of Rangnick in to the mix (a man who was probably not on many supporters’ radar) proves that we as supporters can never simply put names forward and the club will select from our shortlist. And he certainly looks like a Moyes’ suggestion! But I don’t think it’s presumptuous to believe in some small way Evertonians and, in particular ToffeeWeb and its contributors, acting both collectively individually, have played some small part in influencing the outcome.

I reckon this has probably worked more from the point of view of letting it be known which individuals or type of manager (including an internal first timer!) we didn’t want at any price. It’s pretty obvious that Stoke supporters didn’t have the same debate and make the same effort that Everton supporters did!

I hope me and others are not in any way tempting fate, with our optimistic responses to Lyndon’s fairly upbeat article but it’s great to be able to say that this morning I’m a happy Evertonian!

Andrew Clare
518 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:02:04
I just hope that we get Pereira or Rangnick. They will arrive with a completely fresh approach. It's so exciting after the dull Moyes years!
Kevin Tully
519 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:02:30
Does anyone know why Lennon has been 2nd Fav. from the start of this whole process?

There has clearly been money for him, has anyone heard anything North of the border?

If you think the new badge caused uproar, imagine him holding an Everton scarf aloft on Monday!!

Sid Logan
524 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:06:57
Kevin, don't spoil my mood.

I think BK will be pretty clear that Evertonians don't want him!

Phil Sammon
525 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:08:51
Bit disappointing if that's true about Irvine. Always liked the bloke for some reason.
Joe Clitherow
532 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:20:19
Excellent article Lyndon.

Speculating about Lennon (without clarifying whether it was Neil or John) being in the frame made me think about the merits of appointing the ex-Beatle:

1) He is an immense talent on the world stage

2) He is Scouse so fits the home grown

3) Very unconventional so would not be tagged with the 'boring' label

4) In his time he did have a good shot (sorry!!)

5) He is dead so would not answer back to the chairman and he would also be more communicative in interviews than Sir Alex Ferguson as well as making a lot more sense than Ian Holloway (NB though that being deceased may make some supporters place him in the boring category)

Oliver Molloy
534 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:00:25
Paul @ 428...

So who did Moyes recommend then?

Kevin Tully
541 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:38:58
At the end of their interviews, d'ya think Bill pulled a reflex hammer from inside his coat pocket?

"Just checkin' yer knees, we've had trouble with this sort of thing before y'know!'

James O'Connell
545 Posted 31/05/2013 at 12:56:07
Well Hughes getting the Stoke job made me sleep better.
Brendan McLaughlin
550 Posted 31/05/2013 at 13:13:28
Kevin #519
Apparently it's coming from a conversation that took place between Lennon & the Shite's Brenda. Someone actually posted something to this effect on ToffeeWeb a while back. I was also speaking to a few Celtic fans at the weekend & they had all placed bets on the strength of it; one guy had parted with £50! Serously hope its a case of "Fools and their money..."
Kevin Tully
551 Posted 31/05/2013 at 13:29:50
Cheers Brendan - talking of Brenda, Dracula just announced he's off (SSN)
Richard Dodd
572 Posted 31/05/2013 at 14:01:27
The article is largely prejudicial gainst Martinez. He has the `disadvantage` of having managed in the EPL whilst the other leading candidates are largely unknown quantities.

Moyes's departure has brought about a Keystroke Fest which has been both frustrating and enjoyable at the same time. What the hell shall we find to write about when it`s all over?

Like everyone else in these columns, I have not a clue who the new man will be and we can only pray that BK has the wisdom to make the right choice. What I do know, however, is that whoever gets the job, he has big boots to follow and whatever stick he may be in for, maintaining `seventhish` will be a massive ask!

Kevin Tully
574 Posted 31/05/2013 at 14:35:04
Well Doddy, there are only 78 days and 24 minutes until the start of the new season.
Ross Edwards
575 Posted 31/05/2013 at 14:33:30
Well, Rangnick got Schalke, probably German equivalents of us to the Semis of the CL, destroying reigning champions Inter 7-3, winning 5-2 at the San Siro I think.

With the current domination by the Germans and the rise of the Bundesliga, this is the best time for a German coach to take the helm. Good to see that Bill is looking to Continental style managers, but he might still go in house, but I admit he is doing it the right way.

Sean Patton
587 Posted 31/05/2013 at 14:41:34
A point on Rangnick he took over Schalke in March 2011 it was Felix Magath who had got them to the quarter finals already so Rangnick only won one tie he cant really take the credit for getting them to the semi finals.
Jim Potter
588 Posted 31/05/2013 at 14:57:43
What a crap article Lyndon. (Don't want you getting big headed do we - the ToffeeWeb version of Moyes - according to some)?

I'm excited by the 3 potential manager's. Trouble is - the final 3 are probably Stubbsy, Weir and King Kenny.

Ross Edwards
590 Posted 31/05/2013 at 15:06:35
But, Rangnick did resign as Schalke coach complaining about exhausion. I would rather have a manager who can go the full distance rather than someone who cries "Wolf" when they get a bit tired.
Gavin Ramejkis
597 Posted 31/05/2013 at 15:27:38
Sam #454 I must admit I wondered about that same combo myself today as that's what Rangnick does at the moment, as a fan of German football he is still known as the Professor from his lecture on a flat back 4 years ago and he is very studious on football techniques but he's 52 so maybe the frontline isn't for him
John Shaw
602 Posted 31/05/2013 at 15:39:10
Ross 590 – We don't have, or know, the details which led to him calling time due to exhaustion, that's also the exact same reason Pep Guardiola gave for jacking it in at Barca; I wouldn't turn either of them down on that basis to be honest!!
Lyndon Lloyd
608 Posted 31/05/2013 at 15:05:28
Thanks for the responses and input, folks.

Regarding Martinez, I agree in hindsight that my comparison with Jewell and Bruce didn't take into account their different budgets and the manner in which the Premier League has changed over the last few years. My reservations about him remain, though.

Richard (572), I'm not sure where you got the idea I said Martinez had the 'disadvantage' of having managed in the Premier League. On the contrary; that's his one big advantage over the other two.

It's hard to be as prejudicial about the other two as we know less about them but where Rangnick is concerned there do appear to be question marks over his ability to handle the stress of a big spotlight. That's why a director of football setup might make more sense which is an aspect I didn't get time to address. Not sure it's likely, anyway, but it's interesting.

Brian Waring
656 Posted 31/05/2013 at 16:54:29
I still have this funny feeling that Stubbs will be announced as our next manager.
Sid Logan
658 Posted 31/05/2013 at 16:27:36
As we prepare ourselves for the big announcement, which hopefully will come tomorrow, there’s a definite air of positivity creeping in.

It presumably stems from the fact that the final three who now appear to be in the final frame are more than acceptable to the majority.

Then every tenth post or so, along comes a really negative 'it'll be Stubbs or Weir' or some other unwanted internal. I assume they're written purely for a bit of a laugh and to keep the tension cranked up and the debate running.

I can't believe anyone really imagines, that after interviewing the external candidates that we know of for definite, including the ‘favoured three’, BK will announce an internal appointment as the main man.

Last week, I may have thought the internal appointment a possibility, but with all that’s happened since, including BK’s own statements, in my view there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of this doomsday scenario happening.

Does anyone seriously think there might be and if so what odds are you offering?

Brian Waring
679 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:17:27
Sid, I have a feeling it's going to be Stubbs, so why do you regard that as being negative? It's just my opinion. Also, don't forget we are talking about BK who is pulling the strings on who is going to be our next manager.
David Israel
681 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:12:44
That Ralf Rangnick should even be considered at all is a breath of fresh air! Let's go for him, I say!
Harold Matthews
683 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:09:49
You're probably right Sid. Can't see an internal appointment. The job these days is far too big for any one of them. On the other hand, the media may have it down to three but they don't know BK.
James Stewart
685 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:35:37
I would be made up if its Rangnick
Phil Sammon
687 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:42:56
@fizzer18: "@LoweylaEFC: @fizzer18 R u stickin around skip? :-(" will let u know soon!
Selby Wells
688 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:41:15
Lyndon, agree with your points around the interview process and the candidates. For once a sensible piece on the subject.

That said I feel that most blues feel that the board lack that fundamental management skill...succession planning. Surely they knew Moyes would not stay forever and would need to identify talent to replace. That said from experience this lack of management ability is not only exhibited in football.

Ross Edwards
689 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:50:04
If Phil Neville is appointed... I WILL RANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sid Logan
691 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:47:43
Brian, I thinks Stubbs is a great guy, an Evertonian, a good coach wand ould as far as I can see be excellent as part of the back room staff.

But yes you're right if he were to get the managers job I, and I suspect many, others will be massively disappointed and angry! Sorry but that is just the way I feel !

I suppose if you want a justification I would say we have no idea how he would manage in the premiership and I could list many such appointments that have failed - in fact to be honest can't think of any successes! Close to home you have only to consider the excellent Alan Irwin!

Sid Logan
694 Posted 31/05/2013 at 17:59:12
Sorry I should have made it clear Alan Irwin was given as a good man failing to make as a manager in his own right!
Patrick Murphy
696 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:01:56
Sid I assume you mean Alan Irvine and not Alan Irwin who I think played for the Dark Side.
Oliver Molloy
705 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:23:36
So Lyndon...lets pretend you are BK...who will be our next manager?
Sid Logan
709 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:32:01
Oliver, I'm going to give you my view and, keeping simple, my money is on BK choosing Martinez!
Lenny Kingman
712 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:30:17
Martinez represents continuity, likes it in the North West it would appear and someone that may just pay off. Unlike the others suggested, who will have a go for a while then bugger off, with lengthy contract paid up, back to whence they came..
Mike Green
719 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:38:15
Sid #658 -

"As we prepare ourselves for the big announcement, which hopefully will come tomorrow, there’s a definite air of positivity creeping in.

It presumably stems from the fact that the final three who now appear to be in the final frame are more than acceptable to the majority."

Totally agree. That, along with the little filip that Round is off to Man Utd for an extra added boost has now got me altogether feeling, well, the tiniest sensation deep in my guts that something almost half decent could happen. COYB!

The sun is shiiining..... the birds are siiiinging...... :)

Ross Edwards
720 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:46:34
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/sports/story/football-coach-louis-van-gaal-quit-netherlands-job-after-world-cup-201305

Now, read this. You may think I have finally lost it, but Van Gaal says he would carry on his career if he recieves an "attractive" offer from a PL club.
Now, all of the top 5 jobs will be taken, so that leaves us as a top option for him.

My suggestion: In house- interim, 1 season, then go for Van Gaal in the summer. Now, I expect the criticism.

Mike Green
727 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:49:49
Ross - I think by "attractive" he means "Man Utd", and after the World Cup that position will be vacant any way. :)
Ross Edwards
733 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:57:00
If Van Gaal wants to manage in the PL, we are the only big club available. I really believe that we should go for him.
He once managed AZ Alkmaar, hardly a big name in Holland are they?
I'll stay in my fantasy world then.
Mike Green
739 Posted 31/05/2013 at 18:59:37
Ross - Van Gaal's "philosophy"....

"Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal. Preparing your tactical formation is essential. Each player needs to know where he has to be, and that is why there needs to be mutual understanding because you need absolute discipline. This is a sport played by 22 men, and there are 11 opponents out there playing as a team. Each individual needs to know who he has to beat and be there to support his team-mates."

Not bad, eh?

Ross Edwards
741 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:04:09
I apologise if I am complicating things, but I think that I might suggest this to BK. Sheedy for next season, play the kids etc, then Van Gaal in the summer. At least he has a knowledge of tactics, unlike the unmentionable one!
Phil Sammon
751 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:09:44
Ross

That one season that you seem happy to dismiss could result in a 14th place finish and the loss of Baines, Fellaini, Pienaar...etc

This next appointment should be carefully thought about and designed for the next 5-6 years.

You don't win anything with interim managers ;)

Mark Frere
755 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:05:54
Ross Edwards

Van Gaal is never going to happen, so what's the point in discussing it? I don't think you'd actually be happy to sit and wait a year while our most profitable players are sold on. Your just after a pointless debate. Ross you've actually touted some good scenario's for managerial appointments in the past like Bielsa and De Boer. So please can you get back to reality and TUNE IN TO SANITY FM!

Phil Sammon
764 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:25:35
What about Cruyff?
Ross Edwards
769 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:29:20
Oh, I was just forgetting my idea about Van Gaal, but Johan Cruyff? Phil Sammon, get on the email to William Kenwright and suggest Cruyff as manager. Bravo.
Sid Logan
788 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:34:38
Phil, your earlier comment was funny.

The Cruyff suggestion is one straight from the Ross stable - and he has now repented!

You've really got to appreciate that adding in new people at this stage of the game is counter productive and to be honest a waste of all of our time!

We now need a decision on one the three in the frame so we can get on and get organised including transfers in and out!

If I hear another name being introduced at this late juncture I will be sending the boys round to the individual concerned!

David Holroyd
791 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:30:22
Kenwright will pick Martinez end of.
Tony Knox
821 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:57:18
Please, please not Martinez. A man who has turned out to be a poorer Wigan manager than Steve Bruce in terms of games won. Both Rangnick and Pereira are unproven in British football, but unproven is a step up from being a proven Premier League failure like Martinez.

I'd love Rangnick, did very well at Hoffenheim and Schalke and hopefully his problems with stress are behind him.

I fear Kenwright et al may choose the easy option though.

Oliver Molloy
826 Posted 31/05/2013 at 19:59:27
Sid @ 709..
I suspect you could be correct IF they can agree on a compensation package!,
If I was BK I would have had a punt with Malky Macay,a guy who has nothing to lose but plently to prove!
Winston Williamson
844 Posted 31/05/2013 at 20:24:26
I have a very deep distrust of Kenwright, which is justified with previous acts and lies...
However, in regard to planning for the (near certain) exit of Moyes I am struggling to see what he could have done which he is not already doing....did we expect him to interview people (Martinez especially) during the course of a season? Or have Vitor fly in whilst he was finishing his season with Porto?
He has waited to the appropriate time (end of season) with what looks like a varied set of possible targets. I'm surprised by his methods. Quite professional in his theatrical way.
That said, a decision is needed very soon so planning for next season can begin.
Pereira for me (got £5 at 20/1) but I quite like this German fellas credentials. I'd give Martinez a go to, but have similar trepidations regarding his defending methods.
Brian Waring
859 Posted 31/05/2013 at 20:46:53
Sid, I would be well pissed of if Stubbs or any off the other backroom staff got the job. The point I was trying to make is that when read about there being a list of three candidates who have been named, I could still see BK throwing a spanner and keeping the job inhouse.
Brian Garside
874 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:00:19
My wish to BK.
Now is the time to take the bull by the horns and go for it. Be brave and choose who you really feel is the right man. Dont be fazed by press or the "right thing to do" or be in slightest bit conservative. This could be our time. Chest ut slam the table and shout out his name. (Pereira)
Ross Edwards
875 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:21:09
I have a small feeling that RM will go to Malaga. I hope he does, so we can get Rangnick or Periera.
John Daley
882 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:39:09
I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Rangnik must have been recommended to Kenwright by Moyes simply because the ex-gaffer mentioned he was an admirer of German football...in an interview...once. Rangnik has supposedly been a big anglophile since spending a semester at Sussex University in his student days and  has been sniffing around a premier league job since at least 2011, when his agent was openly pimping him for the redshite role. Since then he's pursued both the Spurs job (losing out to AVB) and the West Brom job (which he was rumoured to have been offered & turned down). So it's quite feasible that Ragnick and his agent have been doing a lot of the running here.
John Daley
883 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:41:07
Rangnick! That was just to prove I can spell it correctly at least once
Jay Harris
885 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:30:40
Excellent post as always Lyndon and I am in that minority with you.

I definitely hope it is not Martinez although I have an awful feeling he has been lined up for months.

The reason I don't rate Martinez is he has flirted with relegation every season he has managed in the Prem.

Now I could acknowledge one season may be bad luck or underfunding but to have 4 years to build your own team and get relegated with record goals against smacks too much of a bad manager(nice guy though).

Mark Pierpoint
893 Posted 31/05/2013 at 21:01:06
Read the above comments Tony Knox. It is too simplistic to pull out a few meaningless statistics to compare Martinez with Bruce.
Stu Smith
896 Posted 31/05/2013 at 22:17:47
Id much rather Bill take his time and appoint the right man rather than rush and pick a dud like Walker was.

I know its frustrating waiting and not knowing but this is just another piece to a jigsaw of what makes football great.

Im constantly glued to ssn, here and os for news. One thing that did cheer me up was the Suarez news. Brought a smile to my face!

Conn Prosser
897 Posted 31/05/2013 at 20:37:46
There's not a single individual who thinks an internal appointment is a sensible idea for this club. No fan, board member, ex-player or chairman - I can assure you this. The likes of stubbs, weir, fergusson are Everton through and through, they love this club but do not want to be responsible for taking us down. Even Neville would not want to risk a promising managerial career with a probable high profile catastrope.

Bk was right to 'interview' the internals but more likely with a view to canvassing opinion, discussing their future prospects at the club etc. It's done none of them any harm to have been 'considered' for the role, but the conversations will not have gone near a contract.

Martinez -underwhelming I agree, but more likely to stick around for a few years. Let's just get it done.

Phil Sammon
903 Posted 31/05/2013 at 22:55:05
Sid @ 788

I know sarcasm doesn't always translate onto the pages of ToffeeWeb - but I'd have thought the suggestion of Johan Cruyff as our next manager may just be enough to tip the balance of anyone's sense of humour.

Richard Dodd
940 Posted 01/06/2013 at 00:51:51
Had to meet a mate in the Grapes tonight. Only half a mile from the Freshy but no talk of local boy Stubbs but certain the job belonged to Roberto.

Source: A former Everton and Wigan left back!

Ernie Baywood
942 Posted 01/06/2013 at 01:06:04
After some of the names mentioned I'm thrilled with the short list. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Martinez, but he is worth interviewing.

The other 2 are exciting options, in keeping with our current position in the game and would send a message that we are serious about progressing rather than resting on our laurels (assuming we get them back again).

Mick MacManus
943 Posted 31/05/2013 at 22:35:39
Coming in late to this debate, but I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments Lyndon. It is right that BK takes his time to decide (whatever else anyone thinks about him on other matters), weighs up all the pros and cons and considers all the options. In this age of instant media and gratification there is too much clamour for wanting to know everything straight away.

And you are also right, we can speculate on many things about the appointment but never really know about the real happenings that are going on behind the scenes. Rumour and hearsay is too often taken as fact and forthright opinions are sometimes given on that basis only. Understandable in a way, as this is a forum of opinions but that doesn't make it right!

Eric Myles
944 Posted 01/06/2013 at 01:16:51
Richard #940, are you telling us that they've sold Baines?????
Ernie Baywood
945 Posted 01/06/2013 at 01:15:28
Just noticed on Rangnick's wiki that he lived in England for a year and studied at Sussex uni while learning English.

An intelligent, progressive, overseas manager from a top league and with a command of the language. Almost sounds too good to be true!

Gavin Ramejkis
946 Posted 01/06/2013 at 02:09:18
Eric although a long shot, I'm sure Unsie also played for Wigan although he is better known drinking in the Brown Cow in Eccleston with his brothers.
Ben Dyke
954 Posted 01/06/2013 at 05:49:45
I am utterly amazed that Bill Kenwright appears to actually be doing this well! I genuinely think he actually looked at the broad sweep of Evertonian messages to him, as well as doing the professional things like asking the outgoing man about all the in-house staff and external coaches he would recommend, and then doing his own assessments and research. It almost sounds too good to be true. Picture it now-Everton achieving Champs League, playing glorious attacking football under Rangnick or Pereira.

I then wake up and realise Bill was just pulling off his latest act and he's appointed Stubbs and Neville and we have just lost to Hull at home.

Richard Dodd
957 Posted 01/06/2013 at 07:51:59
Gavram: It could well be balls! (Clue)
Sid Logan
958 Posted 01/06/2013 at 08:25:15
Phil #903
Apologies, maybe I'm not as chilled as I thought I was. I think for all our sakes we need a decision soon!
Mike Burgess
959 Posted 01/06/2013 at 08:27:10
Doddy, has the Ball family still got the Everton crest on the side of the house? Used to like seeing that when I was working in the area.
Chad Schofield
966 Posted 01/06/2013 at 08:57:43
Hmmm, I think I might gave found a favourite after trying to find a negative about Pereira.

I was writing that I could see the negatives in all of the candidates: a relegated manager with a poor win rate; the German Kevin Keegan and er, um, yeah Pereira...

If I was being cruel, he looks a little seedy – but I can't see anything career-wise that would make him an unwise choice.

Don't get me wrong: the point of my post was really to say I'd fully support any of these managers.

For once, I don't think Bill can be blamed in his handling of this situation and I think it's unfair to suppose it's a done deal. It doesn't really matter anyway as, given how many "done deal" candidates have been touted, somebody will be patting themselves on the back.

I've said before about being pleased about the Juventus appointment, but I'm also very pleased to see Stoke sign Mark "it's all about me" Hughes... what a perfect platform to whine on about himself than at his unveiling. I'm surprised he didn't talk about himself in the third person. I bet the Stoke fans are thrilled. Cock.

Anyway, back to Bill's choice, I'm pleased about the caliber of those being discussed and now for me it's "that Porto fella".

Anto Byrne
967 Posted 01/06/2013 at 09:01:32
I am just happy that Moyes has gone and taken his followers with him. Not really a fan of Martinez but they did play well at Wembley and put 3 past us at home. The German is a good call: experienced and won stuff; I don't imagine he will be a long-ball hoof merchant but who knows.
Dave Lawley
998 Posted 01/06/2013 at 12:15:18
Der fuhrer for me.
Richard Dodd
012 Posted 01/06/2013 at 13:23:51
He might make it through till September!
Eric Owen
034 Posted 01/06/2013 at 14:47:35
I know we all want to win trophies but looking at statistics recently quoted by the Guardian showing DM had 45 visits to United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea without a win, I would like a new manager who will really change that, especially against that lot across Stanley Park.
Harold Matthews
071 Posted 01/06/2013 at 16:27:35
Who else is available? BK is obviously not impressed with the three favourites.
Also, Heitinga now wants to stay. Does he know something we don't?
Patrick Murphy
072 Posted 01/06/2013 at 16:57:39
I wonder if a new breed of 'Dogs of War' can be led by a great Dane?
Richard Tarleton
083 Posted 01/06/2013 at 17:18:11
Of the three , Kenwright will, A: pick the wrong one, B: will pick the cheapest.
David Rigby
086 Posted 01/06/2013 at 17:24:46
I would like to see Vitor Pereira as head coach and Ralf Rangnick as Director of Football hopefully Bill will use his head for once with his so-called luvvies on the board

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