Everton 1 - 1 West Ham United
Oviedo, Lukaku and Distin are three changes from Thursday
More poor defending had allowed James Collins to power home a header 10 minutes into the second half but the Blues' late pressure told when Lukaku rammed home with 91 minutes on the clock.
It was rich reward for the Belgian who carried the desire that the frustrated home fans were hoping for following four successive defeats all evening and had a perfectly good headed goal ruled out by referee Anthony Taylor earlier in the second half.
Roberto Martinez had named an amended starting XI for the visit of West Ham, with Sylvain Distin coming in for the suspended Antolin Alcaraz, Lukaku replacing Arouna Kone and Bryan Oviedo starting at left back in place of Leighton Baines who apparently picked up a knock against Hull.
The Blues started fairly tentatively, with the Hammers winning a succession of corners and Stewart Downing going close with a long-range effort that Robles palmed over.
Matt Jarvis also had a chance but couldn't convert in front of goal following an error by Phil Jagielka.
Everton finished the first half the stronger team, however. with Lukaku forced Adrian into spilling a couple of long-range shots and Steven Naismith flashing the ball across the face of goal.
Having defended set-pieces well in the first 45 minutes, Everton let themselves down with slack marking from a 56th-minute corner where Distin lost Collins and he headed unchecked past Joel Robles at the near post.
And it almost got worse immediately when Enner Valencia's free header was tipped over by Robles.
Everton responded, though, and Lukaku had the ball in the net but referee Taylor mystifyingly whistled for a foul as Jenkinson stumbled in front of him and the goal was disallowed.
The Blues appeared to lose their way after Kevin Mirallas was withdrawn midway through the second period and it wasn't until the final five minutes that they finally tried to lay siege to the Hammers goal.
Ross Barkley forced a parried save from Adrian with a stinging shot and Coleman headed well wide at the far post before Oviedo profited from an advantage call by the referee to cross hard and low into the six-yard box where Lukaku did the rest.
The ball spun up from his first touch and he volleyed the ball emphatically in from close range.
The replay at Upton Park has been scheduled for Tuesday 13 January at 7.45pm
Everton: Robles, Coleman, Distin, Jagielka, Oviedo, Besic, Barry, Barkley, Mirallas, Naismith, Lukaku
Subs: Griffiths, Kone, Garbutt, McGeady, Stones, Browning, Eto'o
West Ham: Adrian, Reid, Cresswell, Nolan, Jarvis, Downing, Noble, Jenkinson, Collins, Amalfitano, Valencia
Subs: Tomkins, Vaz Te, O'Brien, Demel, Jaaskelainen, Poyet, Cole.
Kick off: 7.45pm
Full coverage: ToffeeWeb Match Reports
Reader Comments (287)
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1 Posted 06/01/2015 at 18:57:09
2 Posted 06/01/2015 at 18:56:32
3 Posted 06/01/2015 at 18:56:02
4 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:00:19
Barry keeps his place in the side, despite being consistently horrible.
5 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:01:07
6 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:01:12
7 Posted 06/01/2015 at 18:58:33
Surely if Baines is out then Garbutt should play with Oviedo giving width on the left
Barkley OR Naismith !!
Round holes/square pegs ??
8 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:02:02
9 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:00:38
10 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:03:40
At least Barkley and Coleman are nicely cup-tied...
11 Posted 06/01/2015 at 18:56:13
12 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:04:58
13 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:02:00
If he's fit he should have played. I'd change Barry for Garbutt if he is fit.
Garbutt left back, Oviedo left wing, Barkley deeper and Naisy number 10.
He looks like he's playing either Naisy or Ross out of position just to accommodate Barry.
Barry is a massive issue with no pace of his legs and the pace of his play.
14 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:05:36
Would have preferred Garbutt at left back and Oviedo at left midfield to avoid playing either Barkley or Naismith out of position but let's see how they do...
15 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:06:17
Obviously, he's not solely to blame but, at the moment, it is like playing with 10 men against 12.
16 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:07:10
17 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:08:19
18 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:08:18
19 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:08:55
20 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:10:23
21 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:13:30
22 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:11:47
23 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:14:15
24 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:15:57
25 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:17:15
26 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:16:33
27 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:10:41
28 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:13:59
All this with Ross playing left or right midfield is a farce. Put him in the middle or the hole and let the boy play.
29 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:21:42
Big Sam is laughing his tits off!
30 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:22:34
Nolan,Amalfitano, Downing, Jarvis, E Valencia
31 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:25:28
32 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:26:03
33 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:23:04
34 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:23:00
I just can't see why Martinez doesn't play Barkley where he belongs in the mid field.
I can't see anything but a loss tonight repeated on Saturday. The team has no heart or fight.
The commentators on the radio are all talking about the stories coming out that he "has lost the dressing room"
The board I feel will need to act next week before we run out of games
I hope I am wrong about tonight. Good luck lads
35 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:27:38
We have tried playing Naismith and/or Barkley out of their natural positions and have been ineffectual every time. No natural cover for Oviedo.
Either Martinez has something up his sleeve or it's going to be a long long night !!
36 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:30:47
37 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:34:04
38 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:36:47
39 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:40:07
40 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:42:09
41 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:43:52
42 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:45:06
43 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:46:34
44 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:47:40
45 Posted 06/01/2015 at 19:33:40
46 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:01:00
Im trying to think of permutations how he can set us up going forward if its 3 center halves and it just doesnt look right with either Mirallas or Nais off Rom, or even with Rom on his own and Barkley/Nais/Mirallas behind & two holding.
Hoping he lines up with a back 4.
47 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:32:42
48 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:32:46
Fingers crossed, we convert one of the chances.
49 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:33:52
I don't know how this will end up? Probably a trip to London to be creamed!
Rom passes the ball to Naismith in the box who has three players marking him instead of having a dig.... Bless!
50 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:40:37
COYB - we need this......
51 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:59:39
52 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:00:31
53 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:02:27
54 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:09:51
55 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:10:11
56 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:10:32
57 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:20:44
58 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:23:52
On a side note, OFM was a dour sod but at least we offered a bit of bottle!
59 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:21:28
60 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:26:49
ItÂs been the best performance in a while but the defence is shit. Jagielka has been shocking! He should be dropped as captain.
62 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:32:46
63 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:36:38
Just prolonging the agony...
64 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:38:14
Lukaku was fucking awesome!
65 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:39:27
Look at the reaction, RM clearly hasn't lost the players.
66 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:41:40
67 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:41:21
68 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:30:01
Frustrating game, but let's hope this stops the bleeding.
Once again, refereeing was terrible and Rom and Barkley get punished repeatedly for being strong.
Until Oviedo gets back to form, I think Garbutt has earned the right to start when Baines gets rested.
70 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:21:00
I'm afraid Naismith is also a problem. Never shirks but he's getting in the way and his lack of pace is ever more evident.
Oh for a win on Saturday.
71 Posted 06/01/2015 at 20:33:43
72 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:45:00
73 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:45:58
74 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:40:58
It took one of West Ham's own players to take out one of his own for us to score. The stuborness of RM not to change his way of playing when needed and the lack of any defensive plan is just too much to take any longer.
75 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:47:55
76 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:48:47
78 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:50:11
79 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:46:43
Lukaku I though was great and deserved his goal. Very proud of both Rom and Besic for not knocking Cresswell's teeth out, as I wanted to reach through the screen and do.
80 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:51:34
81 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:48:02
82 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:51:04
83 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:51:35
84 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:56:35
Oh, hold on.... We're not on a cup run yet!
85 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:58:36
86 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:51:42
Why does it always go through the middle? Why do we always pass the ball so slow when we look miles better when we speed it up?
Much better today but still too many mistakes. Too many half hearted tackles. Too many not knowing what job they're supposed to be doing.
Good to see Lukaku up for it again. He needs to take that into the City game and he'll do alright.
How calmer do we look when Stones comes in?
87 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:53:22
88 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:57:29
89 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:55:50
90 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:02:04
91 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:03:12
92 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:01:18
I'm proud that we don't shoot our manager every time the team is in a lull, he deserves a chance to turn things around. And the players must shoulder a considerable chunk of responsibility.
93 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:00:13
95 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:04:52
96 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:55:41
At least there was some urgency, some fight, which has been distinctly lacking this season.
Romelu was immense. So happy he got a goal.
But this is still clearly a side bereft of confidence. Very ’hang dog’ expressions by Jags and Rom in the after match interviews.
Let’s hope this signals the green shoots of recovery.
97 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:06:27
98 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:04:09
Lukaku putting a real shift in was a major plus point today.
99 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:08:17
On the downside...defence is still poor though I think Robles did well. Also body language of LuLu and Jags in the TV interview was not great....looking at the floor, mumbling and not making eye contact.
100 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:41:03
Jagielka shouldnÂt be captain he got the job through his performances and professionalism but he hasnÂt got the character or self belief thatÂs required to lead the team his unconfident dodgy performance and his all round nature in his post match interview stinks of doubt and negativity the dressing room badly misses Tim Cahill and Phil Neville.
Ross Barkley need s a good rollicking but there is no captain there to give it, the amount of timeÂs he gives the ball away and dribbles into players when he should be releasing the ball is ridiculous.
On a positive I think Oviedo is great a real positive left back what Leighton Baines used to be he never stops and is fearless going forward if anyone rembers it was Baines getting injured and him playing regularly that gave us big boost last year and he scored some vital goals.
Even though we conceded a shite goal the overall feel before then was a lot better and a lot more positive than of late I honestly feel we can get something against City if he gets his tactics right with them having no strikers and Toure missing, park the bus and counter with Kev, Ross and Rom!
101 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:10:44
Positives - Rom was very good and we were quicker going forward.
Barry much better, Oviedo got better as the game went on. Besic pretty good. Apart from first minute Robles could not be faulted.
Big negative - Central defence Distin and especially Jags. Coleman still out of sorts. Can’t defend corners and hopeless on our own corners.
102 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:07:57
As awful as he was against Newcastle and has been for most of the season we need to give mcgeady a run to bring some real width to the team. Barring that Oviedo or Naismith on the wing is a much better solution to what Martinez is trying with barks and Sam at the moment.
Overall though a bit of positivity from tonight lets try and use this to built a bit of momentum even in terms of better performances if not results.
Btw distin getting injured could be one of the best things that has happened to us
103 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:14:43
104 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:18:26
105 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:19:09
106 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:20:05
107 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:51:04
This game was billed as crucial and a chance to build positivity. Martinez failed. The same terrible problems were evident throughout, against a West Ham team that didnÂt even play that weÂll. For example:
Awful zonal marking allowed West HamÂs best header of the ball a free run from outside the box
That goal came on the 12 th corner of the game. By sixty minutes, weÂd conceded 14 corners.
Every corner was short. We failed to defend every one of them. A more clinical team would have annihilated us in the first half.
First half was poor, though at least Lukaku held the ball and came short. Second half, we deteriorated, not even testing the keeper till 85 minutes.
McGeady...our white night! Sending him on as a saviour on 85 sums up both the lack of ideas and the poor decision of Martinez to leave it so late
Coleman - heÂs gone. Something very wrong there.
We have big problems. ItÂs a poor defence and an insipid attack. even MartinezÂs trump card of being able to change the game is a busted flush. Our problems are blatantly, BLATANTLY beyond MartinezÂs ability to fix. Sorry, but time is up.
We have to wake up now and pull the trigger. ItÂd give the new guy a decent run, time to save us, a Cup to build with and a transfer window to play with.
If we allow Martinez and his apologists to blind us with their BS, we end up like Wigan. There is no Âmagical second half to the seasonÂ as he promised.
He has to go, now.
108 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:19:08
109 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:21:43
110 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:21:04
111 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:21:36
112 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:16:11
GK, CB and a LM please!
113 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:25:37
What will it take, I wonder, for them to wake up? I know that as a true Blue, I could never let my ego come before my teams future. Shameful.
114 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:23:57
115 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:22:16
We still lack width and off the ball movement.
Overall, still not good enough.
116 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:29:22
Really needs to go.
117 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:27:37
118 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:30:16
119 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:16:31
I can not make up my mind if Barkley is top notch or not,simply because he is all playing all the park by Martinez.
Jags is having a bad time,and is not captain material in my mind.Distin’s best days are behind him.
Coleman just doesn’t look himself - something up there I think.
We need a top centre half,and one in the mould of Lyons,Watson - take no prisoners type of guy.
I think a draw was a fair result,but Martinez simply has to get to grips with how we are playing.
West Brom is a must win game as is Crystal Palace.
120 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:21:59
121 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:15:35
Going to need more than just hoping they turn up with no strikers....
122 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:31:58
123 Posted 06/01/2015 at 21:54:55
Coleman- not impressing this season. 6
Oviedo- did ok. 6
Jags- get rid at end of season or sooner if we could afford too. 3
Distin- ditto 3
Barry- ordinary 5
Besic- ok but needs to move the ball forward more. 7
Barkley- needs to buck his ideas up and quick, wants too much time on the ball, major disappointment this season. 5
Mirallas- lacks effort, needs to get himself involved more, always dangerous when running at the defence. 5
Naismith - 100% effort as usual 7
Lukaku- much better from the big man, really worked hard tonight got his reward. 9
Eto- even he’s out of touch lately. 4
Stones- he’ll do for 1 centre back. 6
McGeady- ok for the short time he played. 5
Distin went to sleep again for their goal and gave a free header, school boy defending by a very experienced player. Jags well what can you say!
Glaringly obvious again tonight, some players simply not good enough, and we desperately need an attacking midfielder that can actually find a pass forward.
Just as important, a solid centre back that can organise the defence on the field, oh and throw in a captain that loses his rag and gives some players a tongue lashing when they need it.
124 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:24:59
125 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:33:12
126 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:36:53
127 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:30:53
Having said that circa 22,000 fans for a third round tie albeit in midweek is 10,000 down on last yearÂs attendance against QPR and the lowest FA Cup attendance since 1998 when we lost against Newcastle United at Goodison Park.
128 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:31:16
A 3rd round home cup draw courtesy of an injury time goal against West Ham celebrated like we’d just won the Cup.
A pivotal game Martinez called it well Mr.Martinez thank you for a wonderful season so far.
I have no doubt we will not be called to defend any set pieces against City, possibly against West Ham in the replay.
129 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:23:19
Lukuku was on point tonight. Great finish for the goal and his hold up play was immense.
What is up with Coleman though. Looks a shadow of the player he was last year.
130 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:32:56
Barry is causing us all sorts of problems but not for the opposition.
I’m also sick of people having a go at Ross Barkley, when he starts getting a regular run in a central midfield position he can be judged.
131 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:25:21
There were some good performances tonight. I’m pleased Lukaku got a goal after being much maligned in recent weeks. Joel looked more confident, and put in a decent performance. A couple of more like that, starting at the weekend and the lad might have a future with us yet. Again the trouble was the defence. Jags didn’t play great but I think we looked more assured once Stones came on. He’s so calm on the ball. I still can’t work out why we try to play everything through the middle. Coleman was totally anonymous for the most part. It seems glaringly obvious but Bobby must know something we don.t
132 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:40:05
133 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:34:05
Thought there was still a lack of energy there and desire/instinct to go forward more quickly. On the occasions they did it was better.. it really is 50% in the head.
But Jeez the interviews after with Jags & Lukaku, you would have thought someone had died..WTF?
That ref tho... it’s easy to critisize, but he was sXXXe. Rom’s 1st goal should have stood... it bothers me the players never show enough annoyance with these officials....it’s not about swearing at them but we lie back and take it too easily. Eto’s booking...joke.
Thought Robles was ok
134 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:38:19
We need to drop Distin & Barry, they are way too old. DistinÂs marking for the goal was bad, at least with Stones now fit, hopefully he wonÂt get another game. Besic has proved him & McCarthy can handle MF role which will allow Ross to be the playmaker, not EtoÂo...
I thought big RomÂs 1st touch was good tonight... now it is just shooting practise they need!!!!
135 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:39:42
Exactly, but its here in black and white amongst these posts.
They’d rather say "I told you so" than RM get it right and Everton be successful.
Sad Sacks: Official.
136 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:32:52
But it rather begs the question: Why havenÂt we seen more of it from him? All that aside, to me, I canÂt take any comfort in that as it just delays the inevitable...
137 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:48:54
MoM Besic, followed by Rom, then Bryan. GazBaz needs a break.
Make Besicbauer captain! He gives us real backbone.
138 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:47:40
Hate the manager if you like. Continue to bey for his head but for gods sake, support your team.
140 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:41:04
Pellegrino’s Man City next
Big Sam’s Hammers away FA Cup
A Pulis inspired West Brom
Then a Pardew inspired match away to Palace.
Four Lads that Shook The Blues
141 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:27:51
I do wish people would stop chasing echoes of the past to put a gloss on the present.
Good to stay in the Cup but we return to reality on Saturday. Perhaps Lukaku will deign to put in a similar shift to this evening whilst Jags sorts himself out. At least Robles began to look like a goalkeeper but defence and midfield still a bloody mess.
At least BK and Elstone looked like they were discussing the shambles st game’s end !
142 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:53:35
143 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:44:27
Not a great performance overall, but pretty good under the circumstances. A fifth defeat would have been awful as well as unfair.
A replay isn’t really what we need... but I know what people are saying about Jags. Regardless of hia own personal performance, as captain he should be more positive - maybe just avoiding exuberant superlatives like "phenomenal".
As ever disappointed with BT’s ex-red led dampening.
144 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:47:41
145 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:44:34
On the minus side: just about everything else.
I am desperate for this to be a turning point, I was on my feet when we scored. But in my heart I am fearful that our manager is very limited in his ideas, and we all know he talks absolute nonsense.
146 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:33:46
For the first time, the chairman looked very stressed. I don’t know if tonight was a turning point. Move the ball more quickly with pace is still not happening (only for the goal). Still frustrating the hell out of me with the passing for the sake of it. We still can’t defend but we showed more fight and that is what we need now.
Oh yes, man city next!
147 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:49:30
How do you go from one of the most exciting, attacking right backs in the Premier League, if not Europe, to the invisible man??
㿅 million for him and 㿊 million for Barkley is looking like good business at the minute, but I wouldnÂt be trusting Martinez with the profits to rebuild.
Martinez needs to go though, even Micheal Owen saw what we have seen all season??
148 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:29:03
No doubt that we changed our style a bit and thus asked more questions of the opposition. I just hope thats the start of RM accepting we need more than just 66% possession,5 million passes etc.
We don’t need to seek the perfect goal... just build pressure which leads to goals.
Mirallas only one who didnt put a shift in. Not saying they were all excellent - and too early to call it another Oxford - but I have hope for Saturday.
149 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:57:10
Chad, Jags was all over the place tonight and that post match interview shows that he might need to be pulled for the match against city. If Stones is fit then he should start next to........?
150 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:45:28
151 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:00:49
152 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:01:40
There, I said it.
153 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:50:53
Still too cluttered in the middle. Don’t really like McGeady, but he has to play - we need the width. Get the crosses in an Rom will put them away.
As for the central defence, it’s still a massive concern. Jag’s confidence is shot and Distin is in sharp decline. Get Stones back, but can’t see us stopping shipping goals from set pieces.
154 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:50:13
155 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:09:43
What did Naismith actually contribute except for ’last kid chosen in the playground’ endeavour? He chased around, following the path of the ball, and that was about it.
Sure, Ross looked lost for large parts of the game and clearly isn’t suited to being shunted out on the left. However, on three occasions when he started a run through the middle he fashioned three goal scoring chances: a sublime through ball to put Lukaku through on goal, a dinked ball into the box that was just begging for a touch and a great run and shot. True, he frustratingly misplaced his final pass far too often but two of the very worst culprits for that are the competition he’s currently facing for his favoured role: Naismith and Eto’o.
Naismith is a grafter and will run all day, but he lacks genuine talent. Eto’o was a player of true class but is some way past his best. He was also never a playmaker even in his heyday, so why he’s dropping deep and trying to dictate things I don’t know.
That they are being continuously given game time in that central role at the expense of the one player in the side who possesses game changing ability in that position is a travesty. Ross needs more than anything an uninterrupted run of games in his favoured role. How is he ever supposed to find any sort of form when he’s continuously switched from one area of the pitch to another, to make way for an inferior player, and then expected to make a fist of a role he’s completely unsuited to/uncomfortable with?
People say ’he’s overrated’, ’sell him and rebuild’ and ’I’d rip their hand off for 㿔m’ but I guarantee if he does leave and a top class manager subsequently gets to grips with his game, he’ll become a rare talent we’ll regret never making the most of while he was here.
156 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:44:41
Seamus unfortunately is playing like his head has been turned and we clearly have very urgent need of reinforcements at CB and GK. Reid and/or Shawcross plus (in my dreams) Cech would make a hell of a difference.
I saw a quote earlier from the coaching staff saying we don’t practice defending corners because there are only about 3 in the game, so it’s not worth it. Well we had 4, so it’s half true, and you don’t need to practice defending against us (we can’t take a corner anyway). But WH had 14 or 15. With a truly accountable and humble management, a public apology would be issued for that nonsense tomorrow.
A lot of people applauding Lukaku for the goal. It was a good finish but did everyone not see that first touch- the control was horrific. This was one of his better games but he has no skill to speak of, beyond a decent shot with both feet.
My mind is not made up about Barkley, roughly in proportion with the degree that our manager’s mind is not made up as to where to play him. Why not CB or LB? Or GK? Surely he’s phenomenal enoughâ€¦?
157 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:09:10
158 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:10:45
Hope I donÂt see him start one more game for us.
159 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:32:29
Martinez will not be sacked and there is the 2nd half of the season to get through.
160 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:09:59
After tonight’s performance I think Seamus and Jags need to be rested for a while.
161 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:02:22
Lukaku, Besic and Mirallas much much better game, a world of difference with Lukaku running onto a ball for a change. Besic some decent touches and put himself right in with tackles, a few silly backheels giving the ball away but hunted it back down again instead of standing off, Mirallas running at players always a pleasure to watch.
Negatives, hmm Jags was a mess some really poor mistakes which should have been punished, Distin completely asleep whilst Collins unmarked ran across our area for the header. Barry again some poor mistakes which could have been punished. Subs wise we remove a winger again leaving us no width plus a player who was running at them and leave Barry on the pitch, second sub we remove Besic undoubtedly our best midfielder on the night and Barry still stays on the pitch, luckily and for a change McGeady took the bull by the horns ad ran at the West Ham defence causing them a lot of panic and mistakes.
Then we have the clown prince in black Mr Taylor, a ref who has this season overseen 2 of our victories but tonight couldn’t wait to throw yellow cards around at Eto’o for a bit of backchat, Mirallas for a nothing tackle and likewise Lukaku (this one he actually ran at him waving it, bastard couldn’t wait to give it) add in Lukaku’s header disallowed with fuck all wrong with it and Carlton Cole’s two blatant elbow smashes to heads and you began to think he would give us nothing all game.
Screamed myself hoarse shutting up the Danny Dyer Utd fans at the equaliser and we have a second go at them. Note to Martinez, drop Barry don’t care how much you love him use him to close a game out when you are comfortably ahead not as a starter, the quicker you find replacements for Jags and Distin the better and FFS play two wingers at once, not one then remove him and leave none or one then swap him for another we are frighteningly unbalanced and narrow, feed your strikers from the wings.
162 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:47:35
They had a lot more spirit tonight as well, but lack the movement off the ball, far too static at times but tonight they gave us some hope that they will improve and I think tonight gave us glimpses that better days are ahead.
163 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:01:40
That said, we failed to defend a single corner. Not one. And the goal that came; a free header for a player running in from outside the box - and that player just happened to be West HamÂs best header. Static, zonal marking did us fourteen times on corners in the first sixty-minutes. A more clinical team would have whalloped us.
As Mourinho said, you canÂt build a house from the roof down. Tonight was further evidence that we cannot defend, even against a simple short corner.
A more clinical team is going to embarrass us, and our attack is no were near enough to get us out of trouble.
164 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:59:11
He is totally finished.
Slightly better performance, cant see us getting anything from the replay but some positive signs.
165 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:10:36
He was awful tonight, as was Distin. Thank God that Carrol was injured.
Stil too many people out of position, but what great heart from Rom.
What’s up with Coleman?
166 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:53:51
I’ve stuck up for Rom many times on here this season when he’s had stick. You get service into him and he’ll score goals. He’s had to live off crumbs this season.
That goal though doesn’t change anything for me. I still want this buffoon out.
167 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:17:28
168 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:14:38
169 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:12:19
170 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:13:36
C’mon Colin, that’s just crap. I don’t know any Evertonian who would rather see Everton lose than Roberto Martinez succeed.
171 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:11:49
172 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:16:01
173 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:16:22
175 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:25:47
176 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:15:56
Incredible to see Jagielka playing some ÂfloatersÂ it reminded of capÂn Phil. First time this season those ÂpassesÂ have been played this season.
Words have clearly been had between the players and manager - letÂs hope they can all come to a compromise. They have the makings of a proper team, lose the will to win, and forget it.
177 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:26:02
178 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:23:11
We were abysmal again for long periods tonight, the only thing that saved us was the hoodoo we have over West Ham, they just can’t beat us.
God knows what freak events will happen in the replay to sweep us into the next round. They’ll have to be truly bizarre this time around....
179 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:12:13
As for the rest, well mixed is about the best that can describe the effort that was put in, and questionable for Bobby, by taking Mirallas off, who at the time was our most effective attacking force.
Robles.........yeah Robles..........Oh well
Coleman........has his head been turned?
Jags........what a difference a season makes!! Not good
Distin............lost too much pace
Oviedo.......The strong tackles can only be good for him
Barry ........A mistake re-signing him .....waaaayyy past it
Besic..............neat workhorse. Likes to tackle and did above average
Naismith.............worked hard, put his shift in, no complaints
Barkley..........promised so much but yet again failed when it mattered.
Lukaku............best game this season
180 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:54:32
We have a very big problem looming though as you say, where the hell is the money going to come from!
Not a very pleasant thought is it.
181 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:32:29
182 Posted 06/01/2015 at 22:53:29
The Bad: Jagielka, Distin and Eto’o
The Ugly: Martinez’s tactics.
Big Sam must have looked out at the pitch when Eto’o, Barkley and Naismith were all within a few meters of each other and had a smile on his face.
Based on the performance I think we now know that Mirallas and Coleman are the 2 players who want out. Although not ideal, get the cash in and try and buy 3-4 players who can lift the team’s morale. Martinez continues to send out teams with no balance but despite that we can take some positives from the game.
I still think there are 11 players in the squad who will gel and get us out of this mess. Would like to see what Garbutt and Oviedo can do out on the left. Barkley needs to be left in the #10 position for a few games. Only 2 of these players should be on the pitch at any time during the game: Barkley, Kone, Eto’o, Naismith and Lukaku.
Jags and Stones are still our best combo but would like to see a CB brought in before the end of Jan.
Robles is gaining confidence despite the muppet show that’s playing in front of him.
Our right side needs strengthening because our best combo on that side have already checked out.
I don’t think the board will make a move with RM until after the 2nd leg in the Europa. For his sake and the club’s I hope the results and more importantly the defending has improved by then. Oh and we conceded 15 corners which means we had to defend atleast 20 set pieces. Maybe that will change RM’s mind with regards to what to do in training. It would have been interesting to see what would have happend if the results this year had happend in Bobby’s first season. Not sure he would have survived it.
183 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:28:29
I still fear for Martinez; the ideology that was his making will bring him down, I fear. ’Move the ball’ is not enough, Bobby lad. Sometimes we have to go quick and we have to play long - and sometimes we have to be hard too.
184 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:35:20
185 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:32:17
186 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:35:10
187 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:24:34
WeÂre in a relegation fight. IÂd sooner we lost tonight to allow BK to make the big call.
I donÂt want Martinez to have any fig leaves. As it is, a woeful defensive performance against a poorly playing West Ham team was covered by a goal we barely merited. Now I hear Martinez is calling the draw ÂphenomenalÂ. PHENOMENAL. Really?
ThatÂs why I wanted us to lose it. This guy is a BS of the highest order. His sycophants literally hang on his every word, shrieking at any questioning of their Bobby.
The FA Cup allowed him to pull the wool over the Wigan fans. They swallowed his BS. This chancer spins a yarn everyone wants to believe. But what heÂs producing on the park is a fraud and a sham. Tonight only allows him longer to spin his yarn...but mark my words, he will go sooner or later.
The critical question is, when. Get rid soon and the new manager has two cups, a transfer kitty, a transfer window and circa eighteen games to fix things. Wait three more games and itÂll be a lot harder to attract any one of calibre.
188 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:27:10
189 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:37:21
I think Martinez’s prematch instructions to Jags were: "Just kick the ball high, we stand a 50% chance of getting it, than giving it away as we have been." When he lost possession, Martinez shouts, "What did I fucking tell you!"
Jags managed 50% of the time to follow instructions, except when a West Ham player runs into the box from deep and heads the ball, when you hoof it in the opposite direction and give a corner.
Hopefully the other Everton players derive confidence from Martinez’s new defensive tactics.
190 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:39:00
191 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:40:38
192 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:36:32
193 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:39:54
194 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:28:20
My seats are directly behind the goal in the Park End and provide an interesting view which I think is the root of our problems.
I have never seen an Everton team so narrow. Both Barkley and Mirallas who were nominally in wide positions spent most of the game in central positions. This meant on the whole the opportunity for the full backs to join in was extremely limited. At one point once Eto’o came on, Oviedo was playing both full back and wide left on his own.
We seem intent on playing through the centre of teams, lots of intricate passing which is easy to defend against, losing possession and on a number of occasions leaving us vulnerable to counter attack.
Last season ( and the previous 4 or 5) our full backs were one of our most potent attacking options. The current system has negated this and as a result we look a lot less dangerous.
On a plus point I thought Lukaku never gave up and got the goal he deserved but if we had Coleman and Baines bombing on and getting crosses in I am convinced he would be getting more goals because the lad certainly can finish. Asking him to play with his back to goal and play intricate passes with midfield players is to my mind a fucking waste.
195 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:41:12
196 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:43:30
197 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:14:02
198 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:40:41
A really interesting point. I think youÂre right. Like Mike Walker all those years ago, thereÂs no way it would have been tolerated.
I have to say, itÂs also worrying how common consensus seems to be developing that weÂve ÂlostÂ Coleman, McCarthy and possibly Super KevÂ. TheyÂre all players that could walk away with ease. If there is unrest in the dressing room, who ultimately carries the can?
Seriously, Moyes must be starting to chuckle at this farce...
199 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:44:59
200 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:50:44
@ John - YouÂre right, but I think that those two decisions were retrospective ones. Firstly, the happy holiday that was the closed season truly screwed us. Secondly, putting the spine of our defense in the hands of slower players who are encouraged to play a high line - Barry, Distin, Jags - (idiotically failing to learn the lesson of Anfield 2013)
201 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:51:50
Well done tonight for stopping the rot and Rom looked right up for it. For me the Jury’s still out with respect to RM’s tenure; we’ll know one way or the other in the next few weeks.
202 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:12:17
203 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:22:53
We got the ball to Lukaku much quicker tonight and we seen the benefits. Thats what I call a plan B Roberto.
204 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:01:34
Special thanks to the lads leaving with 10 mins to go. Inspirational.
205 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:02:42
Whatever happens, relegation can’t happen, and he must be taken out if the Board feel this is a possibility. The cups are totally irrelevant compared to PL survival.
206 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:56:11
That was a weak WHU side and we should have beaten them comfortably. City will murder us if we play like that.
207 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:44:51
208 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:09:14
209 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:52:46
I may possess a different opinion to you but I find this purile, arrogant and frankly juvenile one man crusade of labeling anyone with a different opinion to you regarding Martinez as an "Apologist" patronising and offensive.
It portrays the actions of a man with limited capacity when it comes to debate.
Self analysis may be not one of your strong points however, do you not understand that by dismissing and alienaiting alternative opinion with inflamatory comments nullifies any incisive views (And you do have some) on Martinez redundent.
210 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:18:18
Keep hoping Everton fail fellas to try and look "cleva".
211 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:25:40
212 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:20:26
John Daley that "last kid picked " thing was just brilliant .It brought back horrendous memories for, err, an old school mate I happened to mention it to.
213 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:34:57
Exactly Andy, I’m on holiday with a crap Internet connection watching the game and jumped up and down in the bar, by myself.
It is the FA Cup after all.
Ride this shit period out and I’m sure RM gets it right.
214 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:29:26
Drawing beats losing.
215 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:42:23
Besic had a great first half as a destroyer, although people claiming he moves the ball quickly or pushes us forward are being conned by what they’re seeing. He may be very quick, look kind of dynamic and throw a lot of shimmies but he goes backwards. He did it from their penalty area at one point which ended up with ball back to Robles. There’s a role for Besic (probably over Barry) but he doesn’t solve the problem of getting the ball out of our half. Hopefully it’s something that comes to him because he seems to be decent enough on the ball.
Then the second half and the goal conceded sapped their confidence. We again looked like the team that couldn’t get out of defence and midfield. The space around Rom closed up. Eto’o came on, seemingly to close down Barkley and generally had a shocker.
Aiden McGeady got us back into that game tonight. A slightly tattered but correctly shaped peg in a gaping hole. He offered more in attack in 5 minutes than the rest did in the 40 that preceded it. You don’t need to be brilliant.... just committed and playing in a position that suits you.
Strangely, I haven’t celebrated a goal like that for a while. There was kind of a feeling of defiance... wonder if the players feel that too? We’re in the shit and we need to fight our way out.
216 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:30:42
217 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:56:43
218 Posted 07/01/2015 at 01:03:45
Throw me an email and I will send you the details as and when I get them. I will be travelling to the smoke from Pompey.
219 Posted 07/01/2015 at 01:10:05
220 Posted 07/01/2015 at 01:25:56
Don’t know why Stones didn’t start. My opinion he’s our best central defender. He’s fairly tall, mobile, and can track opposing players better than Jags or Distin. He’s also much more comfortable playing the ball out of the back.
If we play this narrow we might as well play Baines and Coleman further forward. I wouldn’t mind seeing Garbutt/Oveido and Hibbert in the back line with Baines and Coleman playing more as wingers. Both Baines and Coleman know how to play wide which is better than the other out of position options we seem to play.
Will be interested to see who starts this weekend.
221 Posted 07/01/2015 at 01:42:17
Besic had a cracking game and if McCarthy can be fit for Saturday thatÂs the centre mid Id like to see, failing that IÂm starting to think Baines alongside Besic might just work.....anything but Barry who was slightly better tonight but still looks horribly off form.
Lukaku had one of his best games for us and gave me hope he can do that on a regular basis if our shape and approach allows.
Oviedo was very good indeed. Garbutt at left back and Oviedo ahead of him on Saturday ? Ok thatÂs three left backs in the team but there would be width and a little pace and defensive nouse down that side......worth a punt.
Barklay looked better any time he drifted inside and swopped places with a hard working but largely less effective Naisy....however until the mgr stops torturing Ross by playing wide left the guy might as well be on the bench.
Robles did ok considering until Stones arrived the centre of his defense had another less than great night.
The ref was an utter shambles and surely we will get some decisions going our way in the second half of the season...
The draw was deserved, a real mixed bag but West Ham are one of the six best teams in the league this year and we arnÂt so not that shabby to get a second chance.
None of which alters my fear that we are going to get utterley tonked against City. But this is Everton so who knows. Oh and anyone wanting us to lose tonight....crazy, totally crazy.
222 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:41:31
Still poor in the air, Lukaku put in a good shift and got himself into the box for the equalizer. As the main striker he needs to get in there more often.
All in all, a better performance than recent efforts but the attackers are too static and predictable in the final third.
223 Posted 07/01/2015 at 03:19:18
Besic had a really good game last night and McCarthy is returning from injury. I thought about the prospect of the two of them paired behind Barkley or Baines and I don’t recall them ever playing together.. It’s always one of the two, alongside Barry.
It might be an option As you say Harold, Barry hasn’t got the legs to track back like McCarthy and while Besic might not be quite as creative as Barry, he is certainly more mobile and is a grafter. Also any lack of creativity could be offset by playing Baines or Barkley in front of them rather than Naismith.
224 Posted 07/01/2015 at 04:26:42
As much as I thought RM should be gone, I hope he could prove me wrong by motivating the players with this goal.
Should we bring Neville back for a day to tell the current squad what happened then, before and after his tackle?
226 Posted 06/01/2015 at 23:41:25
What I will say is that Evertonians shouldnÂt be wanting the team to lose any games. I sadly fell into that category before the Hull game but that was more because I wanted to hear Roberto Martinez talk his way out of the 4th defeat in a row. Last time I want them to lose.
The more matches we have to play the more successful a team we are. If we have to play 2 matches per week it would generally mean we are doing something right. Just have to find a way of dealing with it.
I appreciate itÂs tough watching us play at the moment for many reasons, especially if you pay to watch the games at Goodison and/or follow the away games.
But we didnÂt lose tonight. We came back from a goal down against a well-organised team. We are still in the cup and that means another game. Great. If we can get through we have a winnable tie against lower league opposition.
From what I could see from watching the game on TV there seemed to be more fight in the team, Lukaku seemed to run around a bit more. Not that running around more is always good but there were signs of improvement from him.
Yes mistakes were made. Confidence is low. The post match interview with Jagielka and Lukaku showed us 2 players who are low on confidence but also who were probably knackered and relieved....
Sorry not to bring any new points to this thread.
227 Posted 07/01/2015 at 06:26:15
Thankfully we all see it differently, but itÂs good to dream. My nightmare still continues.
228 Posted 07/01/2015 at 07:16:28
Joel: did okay actually. Still need to replace him mind. An accident waiting to happen.
Distin: Hes been a great buy for us but its time he was put out to pasture. He has lost his agility and his reaction time has doubled.
Ditto Gareth Barry.
Jags: had a poor game but has to play every week
Coleman: lacking in confidence. Still our best right back.
Oviedo: should play wide left in front of either Baines or Garbutt.
Besic: love his enthusiasm. Needs run of games.
Mirallas: should play wide right.
Barkley: a fraud. Sell for as much as we can.
Naismith: god loves a trier. When hes out of form he looks a bit of a donkey. Works his plums off though.
Lukaku: think we made a massive boob paying 28 mil for him but he did well. Possibility best game ive seen him have. Needs to be in the box more.
Stones for Distin, Alcaraz to be burned at the stake, Kone for Barry and play Barkley and play 4-4-2 with him alongside Besic. Bypass midfield more, use width, feed 2 strikers= winning some games.
Thats that sorted. Anyone need anything else sorting out?
229 Posted 07/01/2015 at 07:34:38
230 Posted 07/01/2015 at 07:47:50
231 Posted 07/01/2015 at 07:55:23
232 Posted 07/01/2015 at 07:37:21
Re anything else need sorting out.
You left out your thoughts on the subs, Roberto.
re comments on Ross...not sure if you are serious but..I would love to hear Roy Hodgson’s view on him
Not sure he is the next Paul Gascoigne just yet which is ok with me.
He’s the first Ross Barkley.
It would be great if he could be our Gerrard. Not necessarily in the way he plays but be a one club man or almost...these days it is difficult to hold on to players like him as the players want more money and also a chance to win things and better themselves which is understandable. Gerrard has been lucky in that Liverpool always have the potential to win things so hasn’t perhaps felt a need to move.
Thankfully for Everton fans they don’t win as much as they use to!
Not sure about him being a fraud. But I also could be tempted to sell if there was a ridiculous bid of 40-50 million but there won’t be. He is still young and needs to move up a gear to justify the hype. Certainly needs to impose himself more.
Just needs a good run of games in a position he can thrive in, for example his best position. However, exactly what is his best position. Certainly not playing out wide. Also would help if he was playing in a team full of players with confidence. Would be interesting to see how he would have developed without his injuries earlier in his career.
He could have been a contender or at least phenomenal.
He will fulfil his potential. Just hope it is with us.
233 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:11:35
234 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:16:44
Baines should be dropped as simple as. He is one of the causes of our woeful defense. When replaced with Hibbert or Oviedo we’ve defended better this season. The amount of suicide runs he makes every game is ridiculous. He should focus on defending first and foremost like Oviedo does. We all know who will be straight in v city even if he’s not fully fit.
235 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:17:30
Agreed. He was decent yesterday. Goal wasn’t his fault. Comical defending in front. Perhaps have a player stay on the post like the old days.
I admit he wouldn’t be my choice as a keeper on what I have seen of him in the past especially his keepy uppy at Wigan which was funny. But he was good yesterday.
However as I have mentioned a few times it must be hard coming into a team low on confidence especially when you don’t get too many matches in the first place. My understanding is that he doesn’t play in any U21 games. So all he gets to do is train and sit on bench.
On a separate note I like Oviedo. Always looks to challenge and put a good shift in. Was it about this time last year he suffered his break.
236 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:32:55
Nearly all players we regard as world class or potentially world have one thing in common. Arrogance abd swagger, and in some cases nastiness as well. Ross has ability granted, but like Rodwell before him I don’t think he has the mentality to achieve his potential.
237 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:21:36
I’m baffled that you fail to see the long-term picture. Any minor blip in our current form, i.e. a draw or, heaven forbid, a victory, will delay the departure of this excuse for a manager.
Yes, I would take a defeat to City, if it meant Martinez was sacked the next day, and we get someone in quickly to stop our relegation slide.
One victory in 6 or 7 games is not going to save us. These rare occurences provide a feel-good factor for certain supporters, including yourself, who quickly forget the dire situation in which our club finds itself. After the QPR game there were posts on TW which stated "What’s everyone complaining about? It’s 3 points in the bag...". Realistic supporters were complaining about our dreadful performances and managerial tactics, and that was the last time we barely managed 3 points in the last 6 games.
Supporters should unite and make a concerted effort to get rid of our manager - otherwise we’re staring down the barrel of a ’relegation gun’.
238 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:41:08
As for Robles well, heÂll never be our number one but with a few more games to get his confidence he could be a decent stand in.
Some excellent points made on this thread. ItÂs nice to see some blues feeling slightly better after an improved performance.
Pity about the Troll who appeared last night. So called fan wanting us to lose to prove his childish point.
239 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:49:28
240 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:49:31
Btw, you are not the Troll I was referring to. Your desire for us to lose is shameful IMO but at least you back up you arguments. The other ÂpersonÂ last night was just an idiot. See ya.
241 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:52:12
I really feel for the lad as he’s put a shift in most notably at Newcastle he ran his bollocks off closing down etc even when things have not been going well unlike Mirralas etc.
I’m all for Oviedo starting too but the stick Baines has been getting is wrong in my eyes.
242 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:02:56
I’d really love to see this team against City:
Coleman Jags Stones Baines
Mirallas Barkley Oviedo
A younger looking team with good energy and pace, two things we have been sorely missing. Sadly though it seems Barry is undroppable despite being one of weakest players this season.
243 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:20:08
It’s difficult to justify Lukaku’s price tag right at this moment - much in the same way it’s hard to be an "apologist" on here.
Maybe something clicked with Lukaku yesterday. For me, he’s looked like a player trying to take on board a lot of advice over the past 12 months ir so. The thing is actually he need a to believe in his natural ability a bit more rather than become a complete player.
Ross, had a game where very little came off for him. That doesn’t make him a fraud, and I’d not like him to "simplify" and just play balls - God knows under Moyes, Barkley would have dropped him to the bench until summer for a performance like that.
Roberto changed things (although playing players out wide who are not wide men means we lack width as someone else mentioned). There weren’t wholesale changes, but then if he did completely changed he’d be going against his natural game... much like expecting Hibbert to become a cultured Beckenbauer-esque player, Moyes an expansive manager or Robles a goalie (OK, he did better too).
244 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:43:39
245 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:17:09
246 Posted 07/01/2015 at 08:50:13
Simon Temme #211.
Hey, cracking post. Personally I just thought "what a twat". So far this season I have seen many blues sit through the total dross & shite played at GP, for me these blues deserve far more than being labelled "apologist’s" just because they want RM to succeed.
Now, more importantly, I’m planning to go to Bern for the Europa game and obviously my Mrs don’t know yet!!! My intended speech "shut it, I’m going and that is that" sounds a bit harsh, (I know!!!!). So what would be your one liner that would keep family harmony and also sound totally PC.
247 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:16:35
Now compare Barkley to Gerrard or players if that ilk. Technically you can compare him to him, but in terms of heart, aggression, and arrogance to think "this is my game and I am running it" you cant compare him. Again you cant coach this into the lad. I keep going on about Rodwell, because for me he had all the tools and imo was better than Barkley. He could have been our Gerrard if he had the mentality, but like many before him he flattered to deceive.
248 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:18:52
249 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:11:29
Totally agree with your views about the mentality of some players. So sad. We seem to have a great Academy, full of promising players but for various well-documented reasons they don’t succeed and go out on loan, and then get moved on...
Agree also about Ross Barkley’s effort, his ability to dominate a game etc. I think Roy Hodgson would agree with you as well..
What a great combination to have - arrogance, swagger and a little malice as well thrown in...you must have seen me play then...although that was more like me in the warm-up!
As for Rodwell did he not originally start out as a centre-back. Never saw him play there. Perhaps his career wasn’t helped by playing him ’out of position’ although I seem to remember when he signed for Sunderland he supposedly said that he found playing centre-back boring and feels he would be wasted there or something like that. He wouldn’t have found playing there boring for Everton recently, would have been kept busy...
Colin @ 240
Enthusiasm is sometimes the key to unlocking the potential of players and therefore the team.
I didn’t see the last Tottenham vs Chelsea match but listened to the report on the radio. The indication was that Harry Kane, whilst perhaps not the brightest spark, is making a difference to Spurs at the moment. Perhaps not as accomplished a player as Adebayor at the moment, and may be never will be, but his enthusiam for the game rubs off on the rest of his team mates. They see him running around the pitch making challenges, closing down players and feel compelled to do the same. The fact that he is on a good scoring run as well must help...
Onwards and upwards
250 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:35:34
251 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:33:32
’Come with me to Berne’ is as good as any!
Depending on budget, work and family commitments take your Mrs with you for a weekend break, it’s just after Valentine’s Day!
Not sure if you are going with any official Everton trip, but independently Berne is easy to get to, fly to Basel, train down to Berne from Basel station takes just over an hour...
Both Basel and Berne are worth visiting...plenty of shopping and spa stuff going on!
252 Posted 07/01/2015 at 10:40:39
ItÂs now pretty obvious Coleman is going to Man Utd, swap plus money. Its pretty obvious we wonÂt get more than two players into the squad this month, one being a keeper.
This squad is good enough to lift a trophy and to climb the table. That one goal last night can/will make all the difference in a season. I too have been negative, but its now time to stop, accept our lot, get behind the manager and our great team...
Yes, have a moan, youÂre entitled to it, you support EFC we all moan itÂs in our DNA, but please stop the negativity... COYB
253 Posted 07/01/2015 at 11:13:06
254 Posted 07/01/2015 at 10:33:50
If he makes a howler he won’t be on his own. Frazer-Foster had a blinder the other day following a nightmare in the previous match. Fabianski and the Gunners keeper committed hilarious errors, the RS lad is rubbish and the great Courtois let five in. Life between the sticks in the Premier League is not easy.
255 Posted 07/01/2015 at 00:30:28
256 Posted 07/01/2015 at 12:00:32
For me, McGeady has to play until we sign another natural winger. Yes, heÂs distinctly average but he keeps the width and he will make a yard and put the ball in the box. Just what Romelu needs.
257 Posted 07/01/2015 at 11:54:57
At present, the cons (re Martinez) outweigh the pros in terms of pure argument from what I’ve read here in debating terms. He makes too many regular mistakes and doesn’t appear to learn. We can’t keep losing to shite teams.
Roberto’s ’pure heart’ is also an inflexible an ideological one, I fear. I was very worried last night by the Jags and Rom interview - such dejection and lack of spirit.
I would give the captaincy to Besicbauer, even Rom. Jags is a nice man, but no captain. I never liked the Dogs of War (we aren’t Stoke) and I don’t like Royle (after his playing days), but we need more fight - towards other teams, the regs and ... even our own fans!
Martinez wants to play the right way, and I laud him. He just goes too far, much too far.
258 Posted 07/01/2015 at 09:26:51
259 Posted 07/01/2015 at 12:44:08
260 Posted 07/01/2015 at 13:43:58
Just tell the missus that you’re just nipping out for a pint with the lads.
261 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:02:31
262 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:32:25
263 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:41:24
264 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:44:25
265 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:55:06
266 Posted 07/01/2015 at 14:55:53
The self-righteousness of some here claiming a "true" fan can’t root against their own team seems to me to be off the mark.
If a "fan" truly believes a manager is taking them in a downward spiral, can that fan not pray for a bad run for the team he/her loves if they truly believe it’s in the best interest of the team to force the hand of management to oust the manager? If you really believe the Club is better off without the manager in charge and it’s for the overall health and well-being of the team you adore to have the manager sacked, why wouldn’t you then hope for a loss if you believe it will force a change and then reverse the downward spiral?
Now I don’t for one second subscribe to this way of thinking in our current situation. Need to be clear on that count.
My own personal example is (of course) an American one.
A couple of seasons ago my beloved Red Sox hired a man named Bobby Valentine. He was an arrogant twat of a human being and I was livid when they named him manager. When, in his first season, it was clear they’d not win a damn thing, I practically prayed they’d have a poor year to force the ouster of this jackhole so they could have justification to fire him, hire a new manager, and re-vamp for the next season.
In my opinion, that did not make me less of a Boston Red Sox fan. I thought it was absolutely essential Bobby Valentine was shown the door for the good of the organization.
So whereas I completely and utterly disagree with posters in our current state wanting Martinez out, I don’t understand how if they truly believe his sacking will benefit Everton Football Club, how they can be castigated as not "true" fans.
Are they not after all willing to go through hell (losing) to try to get back to heaven (winning) when viewed from their perspective?
267 Posted 07/01/2015 at 15:19:20
268 Posted 07/01/2015 at 15:21:29
ItÂs your right to say what the hell you want, thatÂs why itÂs called a forum. It gets my goat when people say do this and do that and you canÂt be a blue if thatÂs your opinion and your opinion is wrong. You are not alone in thinking Bobby has gone as far as he can with our beloved club. And while I would never wish for Everton to get beat and IÂm glad we got the draw last night.
I also know that things are still in a bad way at the club. The body language on Lukaku and Jags said it all for me. Coaches just donÂt leave at a drop of the hat for no reason,and the way the team has played you donÂt have to be Einstein to work out something has gone badly wrong behind closed doors.
I hope to god last nights last minute goal was our Adrian HeathÂs moment of things turning around. But what you say on her is your opinion and while I donÂt agree with it, thatÂs your opinion. ThatÂs the beauty of a forum.
269 Posted 07/01/2015 at 15:57:33
271 Posted 07/01/2015 at 17:06:18
272 Posted 07/01/2015 at 17:28:37
273 Posted 07/01/2015 at 17:09:36
274 Posted 07/01/2015 at 17:44:57
Can players really have it written into their contracts they must play if healthy. In 50 plus years of being a sports junkie here in the states I never heard of such a thing.
Only a group of fools would give such a contract.
275 Posted 07/01/2015 at 17:51:23
Hence why I said, "I don’t for one second subscribe to this way of thinking in our current situation. Need to be clear on that count."
I just think anyone who subscribes to the theory of thought that Roberto must go, and for that to happen for the good of the Club it’s not the worst thing Everton lose... it’s their opinion and if they feel the environment is that dire, in their own way they are saying what they say for the good of Everton Football Club.
Therefore, in my opinion, there’s simply no conceivable way they are any less a Blue.
I don’t agree with them. But I understand the thinking.
277 Posted 07/01/2015 at 18:36:46
Like many others I was bewildered by the post match interview with Jags and Lukaku. Jags wouldnÂt even look at the camera and their body language showed they just wanted to get out of there. Very strange.
279 Posted 07/01/2015 at 20:58:22
280 Posted 07/01/2015 at 21:27:22
281 Posted 07/01/2015 at 21:42:53
282 Posted 07/01/2015 at 21:52:28
283 Posted 07/01/2015 at 22:03:09
284 Posted 07/01/2015 at 22:03:49
Andy Gray would have been playing FOR Villa
285 Posted 07/01/2015 at 21:45:33
Barry played brilliantly for us last season, and with hindsight he could of been put in the brilliant brief affairs we’ve had like Power, Gray, and more recently Donovan and Martyn. Another two seasons, let’s hope he fancies the MLS.
Alcaraz and Distin are out of contract come June, so hopefully we can get a class centre half to go with Browning and Galloway to address our heavy aged squad.
286 Posted 07/01/2015 at 22:33:45
287 Posted 07/01/2015 at 22:58:26
Wow! That’s something! Clearly Martinez doesn’t have the players buying into his philosophy quite as much as he’d like.
288 Posted 07/01/2015 at 23:04:20
289 Posted 07/01/2015 at 23:11:35
Andy King was brilliant that day, one of his best games, and he along with Latch, Duncan and a Trevor Ross penalty were our scorers. We then played Villa again the following week in the league and scraped a lucky 1-0 win after playing as though we were still 4-1 up - Gordon wasn’t impressed!
290 Posted 08/01/2015 at 08:53:12
Interestingly though, let’s look at Drogba wiki circa 21:
"After playing in youth teams, Drogba made his professional debut aged 18 for Ligue 2 club Le Mans, and signed his first professional contract aged 21. After finishing the 2002Â–03 season with 17 goals in 34 appearances for Ligue 1 side Guingamp, he moved to Olympique de Marseille, where he finished as the third highest scorer in the 2003Â–04 season with 19 goals and helped the club reach the 2004 UEFA Cup Final."
Not a professional footballer until 21?! What a joker... should probably been written of as he clearly didn’t have the character, arrogance and desire to make it.
Or are we comparing oranges and apples and being very unfair on two incredibly talented young men.
291 Posted 08/01/2015 at 11:29:53
Firstly, the players care. ItÂs especially heartening to hear the quote from Rom. This can only be a positive.
Secondly, why a patchy reform in tactics? Rom coming short and holding is obvious, yet other gimme tactics went unaddressed, eg Ross on the left. Are 㿈 million players Martinez signed listened to, while others arenÂt, eg Ross and Seamus?
Third, if it is true, why is Martinez having to be told this?
Fourth, why is Rom telling us this? Cui bono?
While itÂs obvious that you plan before a game, itÂs equally obvious that you need to manage during the game. I still think one of the most worrying things from Tuesday was RobertoÂs apparent refusal to work on major problems during the game. Nolan got every second ball and we couldnÂt defend short corners. If anything, we got worse on those two points as the game went on. We even saw players ignoring orders by coming out of position to be effective, eg RossÂs occasional moves through the middle.
Adding RomÂs comments to the lack of in-game management, it seems to me that weÂre going into games with poor planning. exacerbating this is that we seem to have given up on managing during the game. I think that assessment tallies with GarbuttÂs comments post-Newcastle on defensive orders.
Seems to me that weÂre struggling with an blinkered tikka-taka strategy that is undermined by a poor understanding of the importance of appropriate and tailored tactics. As such, news of player power may, perhaps, be more damaging to Martinez than helpful.
292 Posted 08/01/2015 at 20:06:08
293 Posted 08/01/2015 at 23:36:15
Unlike an apologist, I love the Club, not the manager. And the love and loyalty I have for the Club means that IÂm not willfully blind to the inadequacy of a manager... unlike the apologists.
Compare that view with the apologists, who support the manager first. Quite when such fans finally conclude that their manager is incapable, I donÂt know. The day after relegation? To be honest, I donÂt think they ever will accept it. Instead, theyÂll blame others for his demise Â– BK, players, the physio, fellow fans that failed to gush in adulation for their ÂBobbyÂ.
I guess some peopleÂs childish ÂIÂm right, IÂm rightÂ ego comes before the Club I love. They canÂt accept that facts change; todayÂs successful manager isnÂt necessarily tomorrowÂs.
Martinez had greatness in his grasp but he let go. Sad, but my great Everton will survive and rise again as true Everton fans like me give our support to the next manager Â– maybe he might be the one to bring us exciting football, solid defence, canny management and great transfer dealing... because all of those things are now dead under ÂBobbyÂ.
294 Posted 09/01/2015 at 08:05:33
I wonder if all those lads backing Martinez to the hilt and who take great umbrage at any criticism of him were those who wanted Moyes fucked off?
And I speak as someone who considered Moyes did a good job at Everton, who doesn't want him back, who revelled in Roberto's football last sesson, who is now justifiably concerned at Martinez's performance this season, who hasn't called for him to be sacked and who hopes he can turn it around, even though the current evidence is contrary to that hope.
295 Posted 09/01/2015 at 08:28:45
296 Posted 09/01/2015 at 08:40:40
The story this week about a change of style, and his investigation into the spate of hamstring injuries, finally suggest that he may be realising he didn't arrive here with all the answers, and has the potential to adapt and develop as a manager. If he can do that, then his positives are still there as they were last season, but he has some really important, basic things to realise. (Defence, set pieces and fitness.)
297 Posted 09/01/2015 at 08:57:24
This is now HIS pivotal moment in the season. It's sink or swim. I take on board all the criticisms aimed at him (I share many of them), what I won't accept is some of the sheer hatred directed at a man who has our club's destiny in his hands (albeit for an unknown amount of time). Either sack him or back him IMO. While he's at the club I'll back him.
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