Lukaku saves Everton with last-gasp equaliser

Barry keeps his place in the side, despite being consistently horrible.

At least Barkley and Coleman are nicely cup-tied...

Would have preferred Garbutt at left back and Oviedo at left midfield to avoid playing either Barkley or Naismith out of position but let's see how they do...

2-3.

All this with Ross playing left or right midfield is a farce. Put him in the middle or the hole and let the boy play.

I just can't see why Martinez doesn't play Barkley where he belongs in the mid field.

I can't see anything but a loss tonight repeated on Saturday. The team has no heart or fight.

The commentators on the radio are all talking about the stories coming out that he "has lost the dressing room"

The board I feel will need to act next week before we run out of games

I hope I am wrong about tonight. Good luck lads

We have tried playing Naismith and/or Barkley out of their natural positions and have been ineffectual every time. No natural cover for Oviedo.

Either Martinez has something up his sleeve or it's going to be a long long night !!

Im trying to think of permutations how he can set us up going forward if its 3 center halves and it just doesnt look right with either Mirallas or Nais off Rom, or even with Rom on his own and Barkley/Nais/Mirallas behind & two holding.

Hoping he lines up with a back 4.

Fingers crossed, we convert one of the chances.

I don't know how this will end up? Probably a trip to London to be creamed!

Rom passes the ball to Naismith in the box who has three players marking him instead of having a dig.... Bless!

On a side note, OFM was a dour sod but at least we offered a bit of bottle!

ItÂ’s been the best performance in a while but the defence is shit. Jagielka has been shocking! He should be dropped as captain.

Just prolonging the agony...

Lukaku was fucking awesome!

Look at the reaction, RM clearly hasn't lost the players.

Frustrating game, but let's hope this stops the bleeding.

Once again, refereeing was terrible and Rom and Barkley get punished repeatedly for being strong.

Until Oviedo gets back to form, I think Garbutt has earned the right to start when Baines gets rested.

I'm afraid Naismith is also a problem. Never shirks but he's getting in the way and his lack of pace is ever more evident.

Oh for a win on Saturday.

It took one of West Ham's own players to take out one of his own for us to score. The stuborness of RM not to change his way of playing when needed and the lack of any defensive plan is just too much to take any longer.

Lukaku I though was great and deserved his goal. Very proud of both Rom and Besic for not knocking Cresswell's teeth out, as I wanted to reach through the screen and do.

Why does it always go through the middle? Why do we always pass the ball so slow when we look miles better when we speed it up?

Much better today but still too many mistakes. Too many half hearted tackles. Too many not knowing what job they're supposed to be doing.

Good to see Lukaku up for it again. He needs to take that into the City game and he'll do alright.

How calmer do we look when Stones comes in?

I'm proud that we don't shoot our manager every time the team is in a lull, he deserves a chance to turn things around. And the players must shoulder a considerable chunk of responsibility.

At least there was some urgency, some fight, which has been distinctly lacking this season.

Romelu was immense. So happy he got a goal.

But this is still clearly a side bereft of confidence. Very ’hang dog’ expressions by Jags and Rom in the after match interviews.

Let’s hope this signals the green shoots of recovery.

Lukaku putting a real shift in was a major plus point today.

On the downside...defence is still poor though I think Robles did well. Also body language of LuLu and Jags in the TV interview was not great....looking at the floor, mumbling and not making eye contact.

Jagielka shouldnÂ’t be captain he got the job through his performances and professionalism but he hasnÂ’t got the character or self belief thatÂ’s required to lead the team his unconfident dodgy performance and his all round nature in his post match interview stinks of doubt and negativity the dressing room badly misses Tim Cahill and Phil Neville.

Ross Barkley need s a good rollicking but there is no captain there to give it, the amount of timeÂ’s he gives the ball away and dribbles into players when he should be releasing the ball is ridiculous.

On a positive I think Oviedo is great a real positive left back what Leighton Baines used to be he never stops and is fearless going forward if anyone rembers it was Baines getting injured and him playing regularly that gave us big boost last year and he scored some vital goals.

Even though we conceded a shite goal the overall feel before then was a lot better and a lot more positive than of late I honestly feel we can get something against City if he gets his tactics right with them having no strikers and Toure missing, park the bus and counter with Kev, Ross and Rom!

As awful as he was against Newcastle and has been for most of the season we need to give mcgeady a run to bring some real width to the team. Barring that Oviedo or Naismith on the wing is a much better solution to what Martinez is trying with barks and Sam at the moment.

Overall though a bit of positivity from tonight lets try and use this to built a bit of momentum even in terms of better performances if not results.

Btw distin getting injured could be one of the best things that has happened to us

This game was billed as crucial and a chance to build positivity. Martinez failed. The same terrible problems were evident throughout, against a West Ham team that didnÂ’t even play that weÂ’ll. For example:

Awful zonal marking allowed West HamÂ’s best header of the ball a free run from outside the box

That goal came on the 12 th corner of the game. By sixty minutes, weÂ’d conceded 14 corners.

Every corner was short. We failed to defend every one of them. A more clinical team would have annihilated us in the first half.

First half was poor, though at least Lukaku held the ball and came short. Second half, we deteriorated, not even testing the keeper till 85 minutes.

McGeady...our white night! Sending him on as a saviour on 85 sums up both the lack of ideas and the poor decision of Martinez to leave it so late

Coleman - heÂ’s gone. Something very wrong there.

We have big problems. ItÂ’s a poor defence and an insipid attack. even MartinezÂ’s trump card of being able to change the game is a busted flush. Our problems are blatantly, BLATANTLY beyond MartinezÂ’s ability to fix. Sorry, but time is up.

We have to wake up now and pull the trigger. ItÂ’d give the new guy a decent run, time to save us, a Cup to build with and a transfer window to play with.

If we allow Martinez and his apologists to blind us with their BS, we end up like Wigan. There is no Â’magical second half to the seasonÂ’ as he promised.

He has to go, now.

GK, CB and a LM please!

What will it take, I wonder, for them to wake up? I know that as a true Blue, I could never let my ego come before my teams future. Shameful.

We still lack width and off the ball movement.

Overall, still not good enough.

Really needs to go.

I can not make up my mind if Barkley is top notch or not,simply because he is all playing all the park by Martinez.

Jags is having a bad time,and is not captain material in my mind.Distin’s best days are behind him.
Coleman just doesn’t look himself - something up there I think.
We need a top centre half,and one in the mould of Lyons,Watson - take no prisoners type of guy.
I think a draw was a fair result,but Martinez simply has to get to grips with how we are playing.
West Brom is a must win game as is Crystal Palace.

Going to need more than just hoping they turn up with no strikers....

Eto- even he’s out of touch lately. 4
Stones- he’ll do for 1 centre back. 6
McGeady- ok for the short time he played. 5

Distin went to sleep again for their goal and gave a free header, school boy defending by a very experienced player. Jags well what can you say!
Glaringly obvious again tonight, some players simply not good enough, and we desperately need an attacking midfielder that can actually find a pass forward.
Just as important, a solid centre back that can organise the defence on the field, oh and throw in a captain that loses his rag and gives some players a tongue lashing when they need it.

Lukuku was on point tonight. Great finish for the goal and his hold up play was immense.

What is up with Coleman though. Looks a shadow of the player he was last year.

There were some good performances tonight. I’m pleased Lukaku got a goal after being much maligned in recent weeks. Joel looked more confident, and put in a decent performance. A couple of more like that, starting at the weekend and the lad might have a future with us yet. Again the trouble was the defence. Jags didn’t play great but I think we looked more assured once Stones came on. He’s so calm on the ball. I still can’t work out why we try to play everything through the middle. Coleman was totally anonymous for the most part. It seems glaringly obvious but Bobby must know something we don.t

Thought there was still a lack of energy there and desire/instinct to go forward more quickly. On the occasions they did it was better.. it really is 50% in the head.

But Jeez the interviews after with Jags & Lukaku, you would have thought someone had died..WTF?

That ref tho... it’s easy to critisize, but he was sXXXe. Rom’s 1st goal should have stood... it bothers me the players never show enough annoyance with these officials....it’s not about swearing at them but we lie back and take it too easily. Eto’s booking...joke.

F

from

Thought Robles was ok

We need to drop Distin & Barry, they are way too old. DistinÂ’s marking for the goal was bad, at least with Stones now fit, hopefully he wonÂ’t get another game. Besic has proved him & McCarthy can handle MF role which will allow Ross to be the playmaker, not EtoÂ’o...

I thought big RomÂ’s 1st touch was good tonight... now it is just shooting practise they need!!!!

Exactly, but its here in black and white amongst these posts.

They’d rather say "I told you so" than RM get it right and Everton be successful.

Sad Sacks: Official.

But it rather begs the question: Why havenÂ’t we seen more of it from him? All that aside, to me, I canÂ’t take any comfort in that as it just delays the inevitable...

MoM Besic, followed by Rom, then Bryan. GazBaz needs a break.

Make Besicbauer captain! He gives us real backbone.

Pellegrino’s Man City next
Big Sam’s Hammers away FA Cup
A Pulis inspired West Brom
Then a Pardew inspired match away to Palace.

Four Lads that Shook The Blues

I do wish people would stop chasing echoes of the past to put a gloss on the present.

Good to stay in the Cup but we return to reality on Saturday. Perhaps Lukaku will deign to put in a similar shift to this evening whilst Jags sorts himself out. At least Robles began to look like a goalkeeper but defence and midfield still a bloody mess.

At least BK and Elstone looked like they were discussing the shambles st game’s end !

Not a great performance overall, but pretty good under the circumstances. A fifth defeat would have been awful as well as unfair.

A replay isn’t really what we need... but I know what people are saying about Jags. Regardless of hia own personal performance, as captain he should be more positive - maybe just avoiding exuberant superlatives like "phenomenal".

As ever disappointed with BT’s ex-red led dampening.

On the minus side: just about everything else.

I am desperate for this to be a turning point, I was on my feet when we scored. But in my heart I am fearful that our manager is very limited in his ideas, and we all know he talks absolute nonsense.

For the first time, the chairman looked very stressed. I don’t know if tonight was a turning point. Move the ball more quickly with pace is still not happening (only for the goal). Still frustrating the hell out of me with the passing for the sake of it. We still can’t defend but we showed more fight and that is what we need now.

Oh yes, man city next!

How do you go from one of the most exciting, attacking right backs in the Premier League, if not Europe, to the invisible man??

㿅 million for him and 㿊 million for Barkley is looking like good business at the minute, but I wouldnÂ’t be trusting Martinez with the profits to rebuild.

Martinez needs to go though, even Micheal Owen saw what we have seen all season??

There, I said it.

Still too cluttered in the middle. Don’t really like McGeady, but he has to play - we need the width. Get the crosses in an Rom will put them away.

As for the central defence, it’s still a massive concern. Jag’s confidence is shot and Distin is in sharp decline. Get Stones back, but can’t see us stopping shipping goals from set pieces.

What did Naismith actually contribute except for ’last kid chosen in the playground’ endeavour? He chased around, following the path of the ball, and that was about it.

Sure, Ross looked lost for large parts of the game and clearly isn’t suited to being shunted out on the left. However, on three occasions when he started a run through the middle he fashioned three goal scoring chances: a sublime through ball to put Lukaku through on goal, a dinked ball into the box that was just begging for a touch and a great run and shot. True, he frustratingly misplaced his final pass far too often but two of the very worst culprits for that are the competition he’s currently facing for his favoured role: Naismith and Eto’o.

Naismith is a grafter and will run all day, but he lacks genuine talent. Eto’o was a player of true class but is some way past his best. He was also never a playmaker even in his heyday, so why he’s dropping deep and trying to dictate things I don’t know.

That they are being continuously given game time in that central role at the expense of the one player in the side who possesses game changing ability in that position is a travesty. Ross needs more than anything an uninterrupted run of games in his favoured role. How is he ever supposed to find any sort of form when he’s continuously switched from one area of the pitch to another, to make way for an inferior player, and then expected to make a fist of a role he’s completely unsuited to/uncomfortable with?

People say ’he’s overrated’, ’sell him and rebuild’ and ’I’d rip their hand off for 㿔m’ but I guarantee if he does leave and a top class manager subsequently gets to grips with his game, he’ll become a rare talent we’ll regret never making the most of while he was here.

Seamus unfortunately is playing like his head has been turned and we clearly have very urgent need of reinforcements at CB and GK. Reid and/or Shawcross plus (in my dreams) Cech would make a hell of a difference.

I saw a quote earlier from the coaching staff saying we don’t practice defending corners because there are only about 3 in the game, so it’s not worth it. Well we had 4, so it’s half true, and you don’t need to practice defending against us (we can’t take a corner anyway). But WH had 14 or 15. With a truly accountable and humble management, a public apology would be issued for that nonsense tomorrow.

A lot of people applauding Lukaku for the goal. It was a good finish but did everyone not see that first touch- the control was horrific. This was one of his better games but he has no skill to speak of, beyond a decent shot with both feet.

My mind is not made up about Barkley, roughly in proportion with the degree that our manager’s mind is not made up as to where to play him. Why not CB or LB? Or GK? Surely he’s phenomenal enough…?

Hope I donÂ’t see him start one more game for us.

Martinez will not be sacked and there is the 2nd half of the season to get through.

After tonight’s performance I think Seamus and Jags need to be rested for a while.

Lukaku, Besic and Mirallas much much better game, a world of difference with Lukaku running onto a ball for a change. Besic some decent touches and put himself right in with tackles, a few silly backheels giving the ball away but hunted it back down again instead of standing off, Mirallas running at players always a pleasure to watch.

Negatives, hmm Jags was a mess some really poor mistakes which should have been punished, Distin completely asleep whilst Collins unmarked ran across our area for the header. Barry again some poor mistakes which could have been punished. Subs wise we remove a winger again leaving us no width plus a player who was running at them and leave Barry on the pitch, second sub we remove Besic undoubtedly our best midfielder on the night and Barry still stays on the pitch, luckily and for a change McGeady took the bull by the horns ad ran at the West Ham defence causing them a lot of panic and mistakes.

Then we have the clown prince in black Mr Taylor, a ref who has this season overseen 2 of our victories but tonight couldn’t wait to throw yellow cards around at Eto’o for a bit of backchat, Mirallas for a nothing tackle and likewise Lukaku (this one he actually ran at him waving it, bastard couldn’t wait to give it) add in Lukaku’s header disallowed with fuck all wrong with it and Carlton Cole’s two blatant elbow smashes to heads and you began to think he would give us nothing all game.

Screamed myself hoarse shutting up the Danny Dyer Utd fans at the equaliser and we have a second go at them. Note to Martinez, drop Barry don’t care how much you love him use him to close a game out when you are comfortably ahead not as a starter, the quicker you find replacements for Jags and Distin the better and FFS play two wingers at once, not one then remove him and leave none or one then swap him for another we are frighteningly unbalanced and narrow, feed your strikers from the wings.

They had a lot more spirit tonight as well, but lack the movement off the ball, far too static at times but tonight they gave us some hope that they will improve and I think tonight gave us glimpses that better days are ahead.

That said, we failed to defend a single corner. Not one. And the goal that came; a free header for a player running in from outside the box - and that player just happened to be West HamÂ’s best header. Static, zonal marking did us fourteen times on corners in the first sixty-minutes. A more clinical team would have whalloped us.

As Mourinho said, you canÂ’t build a house from the roof down. Tonight was further evidence that we cannot defend, even against a simple short corner.

A more clinical team is going to embarrass us, and our attack is no were near enough to get us out of trouble.

He is totally finished.

Slightly better performance, cant see us getting anything from the replay but some positive signs.

I’ve stuck up for Rom many times on here this season when he’s had stick. You get service into him and he’ll score goals. He’s had to live off crumbs this season.

That goal though doesn’t change anything for me. I still want this buffoon out.

C’mon Colin, that’s just crap. I don’t know any Evertonian who would rather see Everton lose than Roberto Martinez succeed.

Incredible to see Jagielka playing some Â’floatersÂ’ it reminded of capÂ’n Phil. First time this season those Â’passesÂ’ have been played this season.

Words have clearly been had between the players and manager - letÂ’s hope they can all come to a compromise. They have the makings of a proper team, lose the will to win, and forget it.

We were abysmal again for long periods tonight, the only thing that saved us was the hoodoo we have over West Ham, they just can’t beat us.

God knows what freak events will happen in the replay to sweep us into the next round. They’ll have to be truly bizarre this time around....

Not a very pleasant thought is it.

I still fear for Martinez; the ideology that was his making will bring him down, I fear. ’Move the ball’ is not enough, Bobby lad. Sometimes we have to go quick and we have to play long - and sometimes we have to be hard too.

Apologies.

WeÂ’re in a relegation fight. IÂ’d sooner we lost tonight to allow BK to make the big call.

I donÂ’t want Martinez to have any fig leaves. As it is, a woeful defensive performance against a poorly playing West Ham team was covered by a goal we barely merited. Now I hear Martinez is calling the draw Â’phenomenalÂ’. PHENOMENAL. Really?

ThatÂ’s why I wanted us to lose it. This guy is a BS of the highest order. His sycophants literally hang on his every word, shrieking at any questioning of their Bobby.

The FA Cup allowed him to pull the wool over the Wigan fans. They swallowed his BS. This chancer spins a yarn everyone wants to believe. But what heÂ’s producing on the park is a fraud and a sham. Tonight only allows him longer to spin his yarn...but mark my words, he will go sooner or later.

The critical question is, when. Get rid soon and the new manager has two cups, a transfer kitty, a transfer window and circa eighteen games to fix things. Wait three more games and itÂ’ll be a lot harder to attract any one of calibre.

My seats are directly behind the goal in the Park End and provide an interesting view which I think is the root of our problems.

I have never seen an Everton team so narrow. Both Barkley and Mirallas who were nominally in wide positions spent most of the game in central positions. This meant on the whole the opportunity for the full backs to join in was extremely limited. At one point once Eto’o came on, Oviedo was playing both full back and wide left on his own.

We seem intent on playing through the centre of teams, lots of intricate passing which is easy to defend against, losing possession and on a number of occasions leaving us vulnerable to counter attack.

Last season ( and the previous 4 or 5) our full backs were one of our most potent attacking options. The current system has negated this and as a result we look a lot less dangerous.

On a plus point I thought Lukaku never gave up and got the goal he deserved but if we had Coleman and Baines bombing on and getting crosses in I am convinced he would be getting more goals because the lad certainly can finish. Asking him to play with his back to goal and play intricate passes with midfield players is to my mind a fucking waste.

A really interesting point. I think youÂ’re right. Like Mike Walker all those years ago, thereÂ’s no way it would have been tolerated.

I have to say, itÂ’s also worrying how common consensus seems to be developing that weÂ’ve Â’lostÂ’ Coleman, McCarthy and possibly Super KevÂ’. TheyÂ’re all players that could walk away with ease. If there is unrest in the dressing room, who ultimately carries the can?

Seriously, Moyes must be starting to chuckle at this farce...

@ John - YouÂ’re right, but I think that those two decisions were retrospective ones. Firstly, the happy holiday that was the closed season truly screwed us. Secondly, putting the spine of our defense in the hands of slower players who are encouraged to play a high line - Barry, Distin, Jags - (idiotically failing to learn the lesson of Anfield 2013)

Well done tonight for stopping the rot and Rom looked right up for it. For me the Jury’s still out with respect to RM’s tenure; we’ll know one way or the other in the next few weeks.

Special thanks to the lads leaving with 10 mins to go. Inspirational.

Whatever happens, relegation can’t happen, and he must be taken out if the Board feel this is a possibility. The cups are totally irrelevant compared to PL survival.

That was a weak WHU side and we should have beaten them comfortably. City will murder us if we play like that.

I may possess a different opinion to you but I find this purile, arrogant and frankly juvenile one man crusade of labeling anyone with a different opinion to you regarding Martinez as an "Apologist" patronising and offensive.

It portrays the actions of a man with limited capacity when it comes to debate.

Self analysis may be not one of your strong points however, do you not understand that by dismissing and alienaiting alternative opinion with inflamatory comments nullifies any incisive views (And you do have some) on Martinez redundent.

Keep hoping Everton fail fellas to try and look "cleva".

John Daley that "last kid picked " thing was just brilliant .It brought back horrendous memories for, err, an old school mate I happened to mention it to.

Exactly Andy, I’m on holiday with a crap Internet connection watching the game and jumped up and down in the bar, by myself.
It is the FA Cup after all.
Ride this shit period out and I’m sure RM gets it right.

Nightmare.

Drawing beats losing.

Besic had a great first half as a destroyer, although people claiming he moves the ball quickly or pushes us forward are being conned by what they’re seeing. He may be very quick, look kind of dynamic and throw a lot of shimmies but he goes backwards. He did it from their penalty area at one point which ended up with ball back to Robles. There’s a role for Besic (probably over Barry) but he doesn’t solve the problem of getting the ball out of our half. Hopefully it’s something that comes to him because he seems to be decent enough on the ball.

Then the second half and the goal conceded sapped their confidence. We again looked like the team that couldn’t get out of defence and midfield. The space around Rom closed up. Eto’o came on, seemingly to close down Barkley and generally had a shocker.

Aiden McGeady got us back into that game tonight. A slightly tattered but correctly shaped peg in a gaping hole. He offered more in attack in 5 minutes than the rest did in the 40 that preceded it. You don’t need to be brilliant.... just committed and playing in a position that suits you.

Strangely, I haven’t celebrated a goal like that for a while. There was kind of a feeling of defiance... wonder if the players feel that too? We’re in the shit and we need to fight our way out.

Don’t know why Stones didn’t start. My opinion he’s our best central defender. He’s fairly tall, mobile, and can track opposing players better than Jags or Distin. He’s also much more comfortable playing the ball out of the back.

If we play this narrow we might as well play Baines and Coleman further forward. I wouldn’t mind seeing Garbutt/Oveido and Hibbert in the back line with Baines and Coleman playing more as wingers. Both Baines and Coleman know how to play wide which is better than the other out of position options we seem to play.

Will be interested to see who starts this weekend.

Besic had a cracking game and if McCarthy can be fit for Saturday thatÂ’s the centre mid Id like to see, failing that IÂ’m starting to think Baines alongside Besic might just work.....anything but Barry who was slightly better tonight but still looks horribly off form.

Lukaku had one of his best games for us and gave me hope he can do that on a regular basis if our shape and approach allows.

Oviedo was very good indeed. Garbutt at left back and Oviedo ahead of him on Saturday ? Ok thatÂ’s three left backs in the team but there would be width and a little pace and defensive nouse down that side......worth a punt.

Barklay looked better any time he drifted inside and swopped places with a hard working but largely less effective Naisy....however until the mgr stops torturing Ross by playing wide left the guy might as well be on the bench.

Robles did ok considering until Stones arrived the centre of his defense had another less than great night.

The ref was an utter shambles and surely we will get some decisions going our way in the second half of the season...

The draw was deserved, a real mixed bag but West Ham are one of the six best teams in the league this year and we arnÂ’t so not that shabby to get a second chance.

None of which alters my fear that we are going to get utterley tonked against City. But this is Everton so who knows. Oh and anyone wanting us to lose tonight....crazy, totally crazy.

Still poor in the air, Lukaku put in a good shift and got himself into the box for the equalizer. As the main striker he needs to get in there more often.

All in all, a better performance than recent efforts but the attackers are too static and predictable in the final third.

Besic had a really good game last night and McCarthy is returning from injury. I thought about the prospect of the two of them paired behind Barkley or Baines and I don’t recall them ever playing together.. It’s always one of the two, alongside Barry.

It might be an option As you say Harold, Barry hasn’t got the legs to track back like McCarthy and while Besic might not be quite as creative as Barry, he is certainly more mobile and is a grafter. Also any lack of creativity could be offset by playing Baines or Barkley in front of them rather than Naismith.

As much as I thought RM should be gone, I hope he could prove me wrong by motivating the players with this goal.

Should we bring Neville back for a day to tell the current squad what happened then, before and after his tackle?

What I will say is that Evertonians shouldnÂ’t be wanting the team to lose any games. I sadly fell into that category before the Hull game but that was more because I wanted to hear Roberto Martinez talk his way out of the 4th defeat in a row. Last time I want them to lose.

The more matches we have to play the more successful a team we are. If we have to play 2 matches per week it would generally mean we are doing something right. Just have to find a way of dealing with it.

I appreciate itÂ’s tough watching us play at the moment for many reasons, especially if you pay to watch the games at Goodison and/or follow the away games.

But we didnÂ’t lose tonight. We came back from a goal down against a well-organised team. We are still in the cup and that means another game. Great. If we can get through we have a winnable tie against lower league opposition.

From what I could see from watching the game on TV there seemed to be more fight in the team, Lukaku seemed to run around a bit more. Not that running around more is always good but there were signs of improvement from him.

Yes mistakes were made. Confidence is low. The post match interview with Jagielka and Lukaku showed us 2 players who are low on confidence but also who were probably knackered and relieved....

Sorry not to bring any new points to this thread.

Thankfully we all see it differently, but itÂ’s good to dream. My nightmare still continues.

Distin: Hes been a great buy for us but its time he was put out to pasture. He has lost his agility and his reaction time has doubled.

Ditto Gareth Barry.

Jags: had a poor game but has to play every week

Coleman: lacking in confidence. Still our best right back.

Oviedo: should play wide left in front of either Baines or Garbutt.

Besic: love his enthusiasm. Needs run of games.

Mirallas: should play wide right.

Barkley: a fraud. Sell for as much as we can.

Naismith: god loves a trier. When hes out of form he looks a bit of a donkey. Works his plums off though.

Lukaku: think we made a massive boob paying 28 mil for him but he did well. Possibility best game ive seen him have. Needs to be in the box more.

Stones for Distin, Alcaraz to be burned at the stake, Kone for Barry and play Barkley and play 4-4-2 with him alongside Besic. Bypass midfield more, use width, feed 2 strikers= winning some games.

Thats that sorted. Anyone need anything else sorting out?

Re anything else need sorting out.

You left out your thoughts on the subs, Roberto.

re comments on Ross...not sure if you are serious but..I would love to hear Roy Hodgson’s view on him

Not sure he is the next Paul Gascoigne just yet which is ok with me.

He’s the first Ross Barkley.

It would be great if he could be our Gerrard. Not necessarily in the way he plays but be a one club man or almost...these days it is difficult to hold on to players like him as the players want more money and also a chance to win things and better themselves which is understandable. Gerrard has been lucky in that Liverpool always have the potential to win things so hasn’t perhaps felt a need to move.

Thankfully for Everton fans they don’t win as much as they use to!

Not sure about him being a fraud. But I also could be tempted to sell if there was a ridiculous bid of 40-50 million but there won’t be. He is still young and needs to move up a gear to justify the hype. Certainly needs to impose himself more.

Just needs a good run of games in a position he can thrive in, for example his best position. However, exactly what is his best position. Certainly not playing out wide. Also would help if he was playing in a team full of players with confidence. Would be interesting to see how he would have developed without his injuries earlier in his career.

He could have been a contender or at least phenomenal.

He will fulfil his potential. Just hope it is with us.

Baines should be dropped as simple as. He is one of the causes of our woeful defense. When replaced with Hibbert or Oviedo we’ve defended better this season. The amount of suicide runs he makes every game is ridiculous. He should focus on defending first and foremost like Oviedo does. We all know who will be straight in v city even if he’s not fully fit.

Re Robles.

Agreed. He was decent yesterday. Goal wasn’t his fault. Comical defending in front. Perhaps have a player stay on the post like the old days.

I admit he wouldn’t be my choice as a keeper on what I have seen of him in the past especially his keepy uppy at Wigan which was funny. But he was good yesterday.

However as I have mentioned a few times it must be hard coming into a team low on confidence especially when you don’t get too many matches in the first place. My understanding is that he doesn’t play in any U21 games. So all he gets to do is train and sit on bench.

On a separate note I like Oviedo. Always looks to challenge and put a good shift in. Was it about this time last year he suffered his break.

Nearly all players we regard as world class or potentially world have one thing in common. Arrogance abd swagger, and in some cases nastiness as well. Ross has ability granted, but like Rodwell before him I don’t think he has the mentality to achieve his potential.

I’d really love to see this team against City:

Robles
Coleman Jags Stones Baines
McCarthy Besic
Mirallas Barkley Oviedo
Lukaku

A younger looking team with good energy and pace, two things we have been sorely missing. Sadly though it seems Barry is undroppable despite being one of weakest players this season.

It’s difficult to justify Lukaku’s price tag right at this moment - much in the same way it’s hard to be an "apologist" on here.

Maybe something clicked with Lukaku yesterday. For me, he’s looked like a player trying to take on board a lot of advice over the past 12 months ir so. The thing is actually he need a to believe in his natural ability a bit more rather than become a complete player.

Ross, had a game where very little came off for him. That doesn’t make him a fraud, and I’d not like him to "simplify" and just play balls - God knows under Moyes, Barkley would have dropped him to the bench until summer for a performance like that.

Roberto changed things (although playing players out wide who are not wide men means we lack width as someone else mentioned). There weren’t wholesale changes, but then if he did completely changed he’d be going against his natural game... much like expecting Hibbert to become a cultured Beckenbauer-esque player, Moyes an expansive manager or Robles a goalie (OK, he did better too).

Hey, cracking post. Personally I just thought "what a twat". So far this season I have seen many blues sit through the total dross & shite played at GP, for me these blues deserve far more than being labelled "apologist’s" just because they want RM to succeed.

Now, more importantly, I’m planning to go to Bern for the Europa game and obviously my Mrs don’t know yet!!! My intended speech "shut it, I’m going and that is that" sounds a bit harsh, (I know!!!!). So what would be your one liner that would keep family harmony and also sound totally PC.

Now compare Barkley to Gerrard or players if that ilk. Technically you can compare him to him, but in terms of heart, aggression, and arrogance to think "this is my game and I am running it" you cant compare him. Again you cant coach this into the lad. I keep going on about Rodwell, because for me he had all the tools and imo was better than Barkley. He could have been our Gerrard if he had the mentality, but like many before him he flattered to deceive.

Totally agree with your views about the mentality of some players. So sad. We seem to have a great Academy, full of promising players but for various well-documented reasons they don’t succeed and go out on loan, and then get moved on...

Agree also about Ross Barkley’s effort, his ability to dominate a game etc. I think Roy Hodgson would agree with you as well..

What a great combination to have - arrogance, swagger and a little malice as well thrown in...you must have seen me play then...although that was more like me in the warm-up!

As for Rodwell did he not originally start out as a centre-back. Never saw him play there. Perhaps his career wasn’t helped by playing him ’out of position’ although I seem to remember when he signed for Sunderland he supposedly said that he found playing centre-back boring and feels he would be wasted there or something like that. He wouldn’t have found playing there boring for Everton recently, would have been kept busy...

Colin @ 240

Enthusiasm is sometimes the key to unlocking the potential of players and therefore the team.

I didn’t see the last Tottenham vs Chelsea match but listened to the report on the radio. The indication was that Harry Kane, whilst perhaps not the brightest spark, is making a difference to Spurs at the moment. Perhaps not as accomplished a player as Adebayor at the moment, and may be never will be, but his enthusiam for the game rubs off on the rest of his team mates. They see him running around the pitch making challenges, closing down players and feel compelled to do the same. The fact that he is on a good scoring run as well must help...

Onwards and upwards

’Come with me to Berne’ is as good as any!

Depending on budget, work and family commitments take your Mrs with you for a weekend break, it’s just after Valentine’s Day!

Not sure if you are going with any official Everton trip, but independently Berne is easy to get to, fly to Basel, train down to Berne from Basel station takes just over an hour...

Both Basel and Berne are worth visiting...plenty of shopping and spa stuff going on!

http://www.bern.com/en/index.cfm

ItÂ’s now pretty obvious Coleman is going to Man Utd, swap plus money. Its pretty obvious we wonÂ’t get more than two players into the squad this month, one being a keeper.

This squad is good enough to lift a trophy and to climb the table. That one goal last night can/will make all the difference in a season. I too have been negative, but its now time to stop, accept our lot, get behind the manager and our great team...

Yes, have a moan, youÂ’re entitled to it, you support EFC we all moan itÂ’s in our DNA, but please stop the negativity... COYB

If he makes a howler he won’t be on his own. Frazer-Foster had a blinder the other day following a nightmare in the previous match. Fabianski and the Gunners keeper committed hilarious errors, the RS lad is rubbish and the great Courtois let five in. Life between the sticks in the Premier League is not easy.

For me, McGeady has to play until we sign another natural winger. Yes, heÂ’s distinctly average but he keeps the width and he will make a yard and put the ball in the box. Just what Romelu needs.

At present, the cons (re Martinez) outweigh the pros in terms of pure argument from what I’ve read here in debating terms. He makes too many regular mistakes and doesn’t appear to learn. We can’t keep losing to shite teams.

Roberto’s ’pure heart’ is also an inflexible an ideological one, I fear. I was very worried last night by the Jags and Rom interview - such dejection and lack of spirit.

I would give the captaincy to Besicbauer, even Rom. Jags is a nice man, but no captain. I never liked the Dogs of War (we aren’t Stoke) and I don’t like Royle (after his playing days), but we need more fight - towards other teams, the regs and ... even our own fans!

Martinez wants to play the right way, and I laud him. He just goes too far, much too far.

Just tell the missus that you’re just nipping out for a pint with the lads.

The self-righteousness of some here claiming a "true" fan can’t root against their own team seems to me to be off the mark.

If a "fan" truly believes a manager is taking them in a downward spiral, can that fan not pray for a bad run for the team he/her loves if they truly believe it’s in the best interest of the team to force the hand of management to oust the manager? If you really believe the Club is better off without the manager in charge and it’s for the overall health and well-being of the team you adore to have the manager sacked, why wouldn’t you then hope for a loss if you believe it will force a change and then reverse the downward spiral?

Now I don’t for one second subscribe to this way of thinking in our current situation. Need to be clear on that count.

My own personal example is (of course) an American one.

A couple of seasons ago my beloved Red Sox hired a man named Bobby Valentine. He was an arrogant twat of a human being and I was livid when they named him manager. When, in his first season, it was clear they’d not win a damn thing, I practically prayed they’d have a poor year to force the ouster of this jackhole so they could have justification to fire him, hire a new manager, and re-vamp for the next season.

In my opinion, that did not make me less of a Boston Red Sox fan. I thought it was absolutely essential Bobby Valentine was shown the door for the good of the organization.

So whereas I completely and utterly disagree with posters in our current state wanting Martinez out, I don’t understand how if they truly believe his sacking will benefit Everton Football Club, how they can be castigated as not "true" fans.

Are they not after all willing to go through hell (losing) to try to get back to heaven (winning) when viewed from their perspective?

ItÂ’s your right to say what the hell you want, thatÂ’s why itÂ’s called a forum. It gets my goat when people say do this and do that and you canÂ’t be a blue if thatÂ’s your opinion and your opinion is wrong. You are not alone in thinking Bobby has gone as far as he can with our beloved club. And while I would never wish for Everton to get beat and IÂ’m glad we got the draw last night.

I also know that things are still in a bad way at the club. The body language on Lukaku and Jags said it all for me. Coaches just donÂ’t leave at a drop of the hat for no reason,and the way the team has played you donÂ’t have to be Einstein to work out something has gone badly wrong behind closed doors.

I hope to god last nights last minute goal was our Adrian HeathÂ’s moment of things turning around. But what you say on her is your opinion and while I donÂ’t agree with it, thatÂ’s your opinion. ThatÂ’s the beauty of a forum.

Only a group of fools would give such a contract.

Hence why I said, "I don’t for one second subscribe to this way of thinking in our current situation. Need to be clear on that count."

I just think anyone who subscribes to the theory of thought that Roberto must go, and for that to happen for the good of the Club it’s not the worst thing Everton lose... it’s their opinion and if they feel the environment is that dire, in their own way they are saying what they say for the good of Everton Football Club.

Therefore, in my opinion, there’s simply no conceivable way they are any less a Blue.

I don’t agree with them. But I understand the thinking.

Like many others I was bewildered by the post match interview with Jags and Lukaku. Jags wouldnÂ’t even look at the camera and their body language showed they just wanted to get out of there. Very strange.

Andy Gray would have been playing FOR Villa

Barry played brilliantly for us last season, and with hindsight he could of been put in the brilliant brief affairs we’ve had like Power, Gray, and more recently Donovan and Martyn. Another two seasons, let’s hope he fancies the MLS.

Alcaraz and Distin are out of contract come June, so hopefully we can get a class centre half to go with Browning and Galloway to address our heavy aged squad.

Wow! That’s something! Clearly Martinez doesn’t have the players buying into his philosophy quite as much as he’d like.

Andy King was brilliant that day, one of his best games, and he along with Latch, Duncan and a Trevor Ross penalty were our scorers. We then played Villa again the following week in the league and scraped a lucky 1-0 win after playing as though we were still 4-1 up - Gordon wasn’t impressed!

Interestingly though, let’s look at Drogba wiki circa 21:
"After playing in youth teams, Drogba made his professional debut aged 18 for Ligue 2 club Le Mans, and signed his first professional contract aged 21. After finishing the 2002–03 season with 17 goals in 34 appearances for Ligue 1 side Guingamp, he moved to Olympique de Marseille, where he finished as the third highest scorer in the 2003–04 season with 19 goals and helped the club reach the 2004 UEFA Cup Final."

Not a professional footballer until 21?! What a joker... should probably been written of as he clearly didn’t have the character, arrogance and desire to make it.

Or are we comparing oranges and apples and being very unfair on two incredibly talented young men.

Firstly, the players care. ItÂ’s especially heartening to hear the quote from Rom. This can only be a positive.

Secondly, why a patchy reform in tactics? Rom coming short and holding is obvious, yet other gimme tactics went unaddressed, eg Ross on the left. Are 㿈 million players Martinez signed listened to, while others arenÂ’t, eg Ross and Seamus?

Third, if it is true, why is Martinez having to be told this?

Fourth, why is Rom telling us this? Cui bono?

While itÂ’s obvious that you plan before a game, itÂ’s equally obvious that you need to manage during the game. I still think one of the most worrying things from Tuesday was RobertoÂ’s apparent refusal to work on major problems during the game. Nolan got every second ball and we couldnÂ’t defend short corners. If anything, we got worse on those two points as the game went on. We even saw players ignoring orders by coming out of position to be effective, eg RossÂ’s occasional moves through the middle.

Adding RomÂ’s comments to the lack of in-game management, it seems to me that weÂ’re going into games with poor planning. exacerbating this is that we seem to have given up on managing during the game. I think that assessment tallies with GarbuttÂ’s comments post-Newcastle on defensive orders.

Seems to me that weÂ’re struggling with an blinkered tikka-taka strategy that is undermined by a poor understanding of the importance of appropriate and tailored tactics. As such, news of player power may, perhaps, be more damaging to Martinez than helpful.

Unlike an apologist, I love the Club, not the manager. And the love and loyalty I have for the Club means that IÂ’m not willfully blind to the inadequacy of a manager... unlike the apologists.

Compare that view with the apologists, who support the manager first. Quite when such fans finally conclude that their manager is incapable, I don’t know. The day after relegation? To be honest, I don’t think they ever will accept it. Instead, they’ll blame others for his demise – BK, players, the physio, fellow fans that failed to gush in adulation for their ’Bobby’.

I guess some peopleÂ’s childish Â’IÂ’m right, IÂ’m rightÂ’ ego comes before the Club I love. They canÂ’t accept that facts change; todayÂ’s successful manager isnÂ’t necessarily tomorrowÂ’s.

Martinez had greatness in his grasp but he let go. Sad, but my great Everton will survive and rise again as true Everton fans like me give our support to the next manager – maybe he might be the one to bring us exciting football, solid defence, canny management and great transfer dealing... because all of those things are now dead under ’Bobby’.

I wonder if all those lads backing Martinez to the hilt and who take great umbrage at any criticism of him were those who wanted Moyes fucked off?

And I speak as someone who considered Moyes did a good job at Everton, who doesn't want him back, who revelled in Roberto's football last sesson, who is now justifiably concerned at Martinez's performance this season, who hasn't called for him to be sacked and who hopes he can turn it around, even though the current evidence is contrary to that hope.

The story this week about a change of style, and his investigation into the spate of hamstring injuries, finally suggest that he may be realising he didn't arrive here with all the answers, and has the potential to adapt and develop as a manager. If he can do that, then his positives are still there as they were last season, but he has some really important, basic things to realise. (Defence, set pieces and fitness.)

This is now HIS pivotal moment in the season. It's sink or swim. I take on board all the criticisms aimed at him (I share many of them), what I won't accept is some of the sheer hatred directed at a man who has our club's destiny in his hands (albeit for an unknown amount of time). Either sack him or back him IMO. While he's at the club I'll back him.