An open letter to Roberto

Guys who have supported Roberto are on the turn now and when you look at our home record over the last two seasons you can see why. A day at the match costs a lot in terms of cash, time and brownie points with the wife and for the regulars who have seen only 4 wins but a dreadful seven losses this season we are reaching a point where something has to give. My day at the match took up 16 hours so I can imagine the disappointment of the guys to whom you have referred- they came an awful long way at a heavy cost to watch something which promised much and then fell desperately flat.

Does Roberto realise that this has to stop or is he the stubborn individual who so many ToffeeWebbers believe is too intransigent to change. The problem is of course that Lukaku will not hang around a mid table side and we need him to stay. I suspect Chelsea next week is the crucial moment- win and we can smell the silverware. Lose and the season will be seen as a disaster .

All talk from supporters from this point on should be aimed at getting the Everton management to stand up and recognise the obvious. Everybody without exception I talked to on the way back from this catastrophic exhibition seemed to to understand that he turning point has been reached.

We are always soft but if we do not act now to relieve RM of his duties then we will rue it. Waiting till the season ends is pointless because he will not change, not ever. Winning the FA Cup – highly improbable in my view – should make no difference either. This decent man (as far as I can tell) is not competent in his job. It is no kindness to anyone to prolong the inevitable.

Best wishes from Hillside.

Ron - I agree with you. The line has been crossed. There is real anger brewing. As I said on another thread, winning the cup will not change my views about RM. He has to go. Tottenham and Leicester are no better than us man for man. What they have got is good management. It's not rocket science to figure that one out.

He has them playing a simple uncomplicated style based on speed, fitness and determination to get the ball into attacking zones as quickly as possible.

From kick off to final whistle those qualities ripped City apart. For the same reasons plus the fact that Klopp and Hiddink are so much more tactically aware than Martinez I am not looking forward to our meetings with Chelsea and the RS. It will be like lambs to the slaughter.

The manager's failings do not absolve the players of their responsibilities. For a forward to earn two yellow cards in the first half hour was shameful. The penalty miss was truly incompetent. The defending in the last 15 minutes was really pathetic. The goalkeeping was poor was well. So much for the theory that replacing Howard would give our defenders greater confidence. We looked as shaky as ever. Both Leicester and Spurs have better managers but they also have better players who apply themselves.

I think many, like me, would have put our signatures alongside yours.

I get the impression that when we go 2-0 up, opposition teams rub their hands together and mutter something along the lines of "points in the bag".

Words cannot express how I feel and how it's ruined my day, silly really but non the less true.

Bobby you haven't got a clue, nice bloke but please do one.

Brian, I feel your frustration and this season has long since become another arduous slog. Our home form has been nothing short of a disgrace and the hard luck stories should no longer wash with anyone.

Today was even worse and I feel truly sick to think that people traveled such a great distance to support our club, only to be let down like that. I had a right to complain after Norwich but today's display demonstrated a different level of ineptitude.

Roberto has to go. For himself, for the club, for the season ticket holders, for those traveling... He absolutely needs to go.

Stones coming off and being replaced by Besic also met with my approval – and it also cemented my thinking that he has to find a place for Besic if fit. Let's face it, for 75 minutes we were actually great! I thought Niasse might work well with Lukaku and I saw a few nice touches between them.

Where we lost it, in my opinion, isn't with the manager but with the players. Not just starting with the missed penalty but the amount of balls that were allowed to rain in from the flanks. As soon as the first went in, we were in trouble (and probably tired after a lot of effort). Perhaps another defender to help stop the crosses would've been an idea but still, come on!

Why would Martinez think that for 12 minutes we would implode and forget that we have to actually close down and stop the supply, not relying on the defence to head clear? No one can argue the record we have at home, and the opposite away?? It's all mental, it has to be, or there wouldn't be such a difference in results.

I think the players also need to take a long hard look at themselves... not just the manager. I was watching Sky yesterday when one of the panel was asked about what signings or positions we need to go for if we are to get increased transfer funds. All that was answered was a couple of squad players. Are we really that good?? Or is it all down to our manager – because I'm pretty sure that Martinez wouldn't be telling Barkley to stay off his man and turn his back to the ball.

It's very sad when you hear footballers (Deeney at Watford) saying, if they did not get promoted, he would have to leave; the fans cannot just up and leave!

I would just like to thank Roberto for spoiling yet another weekend. Why do I look forward to games when I should know the clown will cock it up for us!! Really now is the time to go while he still has an ounce of dignity.

I think he might make a great coach, especially at youth development level, but he's definitely not a leader of men.

Lennon!!!!! The guy was having a great game, don't bring him off!

Closing/ shutting down games, a major area of development for 'Bobby Brown shoes'.

What a thoroughly frustrating season. The best crop of individuals we've had for years, nowhere near the best team.

I am of a similar vintage to yourself in fact I am almost 10 years ahead of you in terms of following the Blues. What you have penned in that letter in my humble opinion is perfect and I can only wish/hope that somehow Roberto gets to read it.

Deep down I truly believe he understands what we Blues are about but I have lost count of the times that I have thought he would learn from his glaringly obvious mistakes. Unfortunately I am close to joining the ever growing band of doubters that he can turn it all around. I would love to be proved wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with you about Sr Martinez being decent and honourable. This is the same guy who decided he wasn't the right man to pull Wigan out of the mire he landed them in. The man who has consistently blamed everything but himself and his nonsensical footballing philosophy for the shambolic last 18 months. He is simply a highly paid employee who is failing at his job, and I doubt he is going to fall on his sword. He will have to be pushed.

I wonder if a forum like TW is actually counter-productive in a situation like this? We can all sit at home after the match, or on the train home, and tap out our frustration on a keyboard, but I doubt the decision makers read this stuff. If they want to make a few bob for the club over the rest of the season I suggest they buy 20,000 cushions for hire at £1 a game, then the message can really be made.

Having said all of the above Brian, your letter gives him a way out by asking that he appoints a coach to assist him. Your letter should have ended with a line in your own inimitable style, asking him to leave forthwith.

As for Mirallas it seems if he tries very hard he becomes a liability a stupid first card and then not long later a worse challenge to get sent off, so after a very good previous performance he cannot now be picked for the next match.

The penalty, not being wise after the event but how many have no faith in Lakuka taking them? He does not use power and always looks likely to have it saved if the keeper holds his position.

Lennon, as I said on another post unless he was injured or totally knackered then why take him off? to be replaced with a forward who has not played more than a few minutes since joining us and as was said above looked lost, he did not work as Lennon had helping the defence and was not keeping the ball, do not blame him as he is not up to speed, looked like a rabbit in headlights.

So 10 men 2-0 up and RM puts an attacker on instead of helping out the defence who would be tiring, cannot make it up.

Finally on leaving at third goal there was nearly a fight in main stand (don't know why) and the comments on RM and team play was more angry than I have ever heard.

Please RM go now before you are pushed.

We have the squad to achieve it, no question... but not the manager who can switch tactics when required. His style works to get leads or to claw back deficits, but not to control games when we are in front.

I think we have blown Europe this season and I fear a tough summer fighting to keep Rom! Stones is a goner but £40 mill plus is an awesome return for an over-rated kid. Martinez dropped Barry and a balanced formation to accommodate Stones and Funes Mori because he couldn't justify dropping the latter.

Martinez won't walk away so has to be sacked. Hiddink or Moyes would be the answer.

I have been on the fence whether he should stay or go until recently. To his credit he has assembled a great bunch of players and got the best out of them, many of them, players the fans had written off.

The problem starts when the whistle is blown, his head just seems to fill with white noise, and it gets louder as the pressure increases in the match.

His tactics in reacting to situations are non existent He continues with what he planned to, which leads to the same sorry outcome. His substitutions are so baffling that no posters on this site can even form a theory as to what he is trying to achieve. It's as if his brain just goes into neutral when the pressure is applied.

You can't fix that with a Defensive Coach.

From that point the crowds booing of Noble distracted from our volume of support. By getting in the refs face and demanding the referee apply the letter of the law Noble did what Jagielka should be doing but never does.

Lukaku's penalty was not a mistake it was a needless attempt at a piss take. There he was for the umpteenth time this season, big brawny Barkley was stuffing up his corner kicks. The big galoots size would surely be more useful on the receiving end of them rather than Lennon the smallest player in the PL fulfilling that role. At corners or free kicks our defenders show all the composure of frightened rabbits. that is a clear demonstration of a lack of authority, organisation and communication between the players. Half decent coaching would have sorted those basic faults plus others years ago.

For example, we have two mature keepers both of whom when dealing with high balls are a jittery as cats on a hot tin roof. he failure of Martinez to identify and attempt to solve the above problems is clearly evident in game after game. One final thing that gets my goat about the man is his non communication with his bench load of assistant coaches.

I will agree that this is the strongest team I've ever seen since 1987 yet the big difference is that the '87 team was a squad designed to win the marathon, not a race. This team is exciting to watch but can't hold a lead.

It's rare to see a consensus of opinion amongst fans but all I'm seeing from Toffee fans is the same two points that everyone agrees: we can't defend a lead, and there is one person largely responsible for this.

I want to see this team play again in the 2016-17 season but we won't be able to keep players of calibre if they lose faith in the manager's decisions. I join the consensus in saying that it's time for RM to go. I want a manager who doesn't sub a prolific hard-working winger for a complete newbie at 70+ mins, 10 men, and 2-0 up.

Furthermore, to change the shape of the 10-man team from one which (with the substitution of Stones by Besic) looked perfectly balanced was stupid and cost us the match. The late Barry substitution was similarly stupid and unnecessary tinkering that also cost us the game.

I genuinely thought we were unlucky yesterday. I wouldn't have taken Lennon off, but then I thought Martinez got other things right: it was the right decision to take Stones off and bring Besic on and change formation at half-time. At the same time, we seem to be consistently unlucky, and in the end, you have to come to the conclusion that it's more than luck, and yes, I think the manager's ultimately to blame. But let's not exaggerate and say he's doing weird things no other manager would do.

A good win, backing up promising investment news and with Goodison rocking again would have seen a totally different outlook on here, with a cup quarterfinal to come and still not that far off the top five or six. And we were only 13 minutes away from that outcome. 13 minutes could hardly produce such extremes of feelings.

From the start, three at the back with the full-backs pushing on looked good to me, I'm surprised it has taken him so long to try it. McCarthy on his own as the holding midfielder always seems to grow in my opinion. Barkley playing deeper could pull the strings with a balanced attack, Mirallas and Lennon either side of Lukaku. 1-0 up, what could go wrong?

Well, this season we know that something probably will go wrong but when it did we were coping well. The Stones change was sensible and four across the midfield was fine with Lennon joining the attack whenever possible. (By the way – someone referred to Stones' body language on here, he lost the ball through overplaying near our goal, McCarthy had a go at him and he had a go back. Odd. What's his case? It was his fault.)

There was nothing wrong with what we were doing until the Lennon substitution. Someone on a phone-in said he was knackered, RM suggested that too. I couldn't tell, but even if he was, you would back him to be standing in the right place when that corner was only half-cleared and the second ball came in.

Okay, so replace him with like for like. Osman could have done that defensive job. Barry? Deulofeu could have chased like mad for the last 13 minutes. But Niasse? He ran around up front, presumably following instructions, away from the crucial action. The three across midfield were more stretched, the crosses came in and you know the rest.

Frustrating. More so than anything else this season because it could easily have been avoided. There were plenty of good performances from the players. 2-0 up, the only objective should be to stop the crosses and close out the game. He had the players to do it, so why won't he?

Is it some weird counter-intuitive desire to prove that he has the secret formula and no-one else has? He will do it differently and everyone will eventually see his genius. Is he just awkward, stubborn, deluded or crazy?

It has happened too often now. When the crunch decisions come, he is getting them disastrously wrong and the consequences, come the end of the season, could be equally disastrous in terms of player departures.

Brian, you're right – he needs to look into his soul and reflect on what is happening over and over again. I wonder what he would find? But, as you say, you need humility for that and I'm not sure that is one of his qualities.

The new owner will have to sit with Kenwright and discuss his future. The league position, home form and defending is to compelling. Three years and no improvement. Dragging us closer to the exit door of the Premier League. Players will leave based on ambition not money. Give José a ring, he might laugh but it would pose the question and show ambition.

I would have loved it to have gone better for Martinez. Appears a warm, genuine nice guy. However the club comes first. This is not a knee jerk reaction but based on evidence. He has to go!!

This Manager is so deluded, so arrogant and so full of himself that he's like a slimey politician who can talk his way out of anything.

If the Everton fans were allowed a Referendum on the future of the manager he would would surely be down the road.

It is almost like something from a segment out of the twilight zone what happens to Everton when they are cruising games with a 2-0 lead and barely any time remaining, for it to happen at Bournemouth, then again at Stamford Bridge and unbelievably yesterday again when all looked lost for West Ham is just pure footballing suicide.

Hands up even after the penalty miss how many could really see West Ham scoring? They looked like they had run out of ideas, but they were given a lifeline by cheap as shit defending as per usual.

I could have accepted losing that if they had found three absolute wonder strikes but each goal that was conceded would have been better defended on a Sunday league mud patch.

If Moshiri really is intent on bringing ambitions of success to the table then this summer he must move on this current incumbent and get a manager that knows what the hell they are doing.

For me the first two signings would be Jack Butland and Ryan Shawcross or at least someone along those lines.

The same problem has dogged the team all season, same kind of goals we seep on a near weekly basis.

One of the root causes of our problems defensively is that defenders and defending midfield players don't hold their positions. Having both the two full backs bombing forward at every opportunity when we are leading 2-0 but down to ten men is one example of a lack of tactical nous. No wonder they are too knackered in the last 15 minutes to attend to their primary role which is to close down the wide attackers and stop so many crosses coming in.

The pub was heaving and as normal my grandson Liam (called Liam the Team) announced the team around 2:00pm. Shocks about Barry being on the bench but then most people thought we would play back 5 or 3 at the back with full backs moving up as wing backs. So again a good positive feeling about the game...

After the game, the feeling was almost totally of disbelief on how well we had played, some parts of the play being really special, but the missed penalty and Mirallas's sending off being the turning points. However, almost everyone in the quite packed pub agreed that Martinez has had his time. People "like" him but the general feeling was that he is a "loser".

I agree with Brian's comment regarding a defensive coach – we seem to be totally disorganised at the back, unable to defend even simple balls into the box. The defending was woeful. The consensus around 9:00pm last night was Martinez has to go – even among those who were willing to give him a chance (including myself in this group). You cannot play football out of a coaching manual, it is not theory, you have to "play".

I've been watching Everton since 1959 through thick and thin; there's something wrong here and it needs sorting. 10:00pm off home... couldn't be bothered watching MotD.

Arriverderchi as they say in New Brighton.

l love Everton Football Club with a passion but Martinez is ruining my passion for the club, and I won't go to another home game while he is in charge.

Please... do the right thing – and go!

Over the years we've had attacking midfielders like Tim Cahill who have done these duties plus attacked and defending in box boxes, Cahill would be back in our own area winning headers helping the team. Even to a lesser extent Arteta would "annoy" and hassle teams putting in a few sly ones.

Pienaar in his pomp could keep opponents on their toes due to his work ethic and Lennon does it brilliantly. For me the difference between Barkley and someone like Delle Alli is one has the bite and work-rate, the other doesn't.

Barkley will be a skillful player when we are looking great winning games but he's got to learn to be more vocal in games where we need leadership and calm heads. He's not the raw 19-year-old now that we can just let him off giving the ball away carelessly high up the pitch expecting someone to tidy up the mess.

Ross has ability but he's got to learn over the next 12 months or so that you need to have a bigger impact in games than just look skillful for 10 minute spells, he's added goals to his game now, the next thing is adding steel and leadership and put himself about more than he does.

Martinez needs to piss off. He is an imbecile. He is too stubborn to change, and will destroy our club. It is season of missed opportunities, frustration, and pain.

Please God let this new co-owner see what's going on and tell this Spanish idiot he has no future at our club.

What Brian Viner said.

With best wishes,

Richard

As Martinez said this week, this is a results business and however 'attractive' the team he has assembled, he can hardly claim to have conveyed that message to his players whether that be via tactics, coaching or just plain old 'bollockings'.

We no longer live in the age when managers were given five years to develop local youngsters as team building is now about throwing money at mostly foreign players in the cause of instant success. Compared with his predecessors, the Catalan can hardly complain about the support he has received in that cause and he now has very much 'his' players in the side.

So where are we now? I am sure I was not really alone in decrying his appointment – although it certainly felt like it – but I hold little or no hope that the mistake will be rectified anytime soon. Regardless of how this season unfolds, I am sure BK's influence will ensure that his man is given his full four years to deliver on his much vaunted philosophy.

The trouble is that if Lukaku moves on we shall be left with a crap defence and no punch upfront.... and that equals disaster.

I always like your posts.

But to you and others who say we need a defensive coach, I will point out that we already have one. That was the useless waste of space sat on the bench smirking as West Ham's third goal went (apparently, according to some other posters - too far for me to see directly across from my seat and I have steadfastly avoided watching any highlights for a while now. Like you I just can't be bothered anymore. Win Lose or Draw I used to watch us to see what tweaks would/could be made to improve us; with this ignorant fool in charge I know it will be exactly the same next game so it is a pointless exercise).

Our "Defensive" coach is called Dennis William Lawrence and he sits on the bench all game without ever uttering so much as a peep to address the chaos that he is responsible for unfolding ahead of him.

He has been employed by Roberto Martinez for some years now and is so highly thought of by him that he was brought with him from his previous club who were relegated with a huge amount of goals against; a trend which is clearly continuing with much better players than he has ever worked with before as either a player or a "coach".

Roberto clearly sees nothing wrong with the job Dennis is doing. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

No personal abuse, no name calling.

If anyone at the echo had any balls they would read this out to Roberto at his next press conference and ask him to comment.

Lukaku's penalty miss was the turning point, his penalties are never convincing, and he shouldn't be allowed to take further penalties.

We seem to have acquired a useless striker for £13m so I wouldn't trust Martinez with further big buys. We need a top class manager, a new coaching team and a very good goalkeeper.

If only Martinez could shut up shop after taking a lead.

I would have told Rom to drop in between Jags and Funes Mori after conceding the first as the air bombardment was so obviously causing us problems. Lennon or even a fresh legged Deulofeu (what the fuck is going on with him? Who only knows...) left up top alone would have seen us over the line – but what do I know?

As for the match. If Lennon needed to come off, fair enough, but he should have been replaced by Baines who would have helped prevent the crosses into our box. Bringing on a lad who hadn't played for months and sticking him up front was beyond comprehension. I've nothing against Niasse who was as rusty as a ship's bucket but Martinez was clearly not understanding the situation. Likewise Ross Barkley, a big strong True Blue who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. It would require too much energy.

A new manager and his team should be put in place immediately. Start building for the future right now.

A lot of Evertonians don't follow TW as they say a rabid element dominate its pages. I disagree, but often see their point. To me, I want to see all sides of the arguement and then try to make a decision based on reason rather than pure emotion.

My patience with this kind of 'defeat from the jaws of victory' defending is now paper thin. We do not seem to be learning from these painful lessons.

Roberto – your philosophy needs to incorporate the art of defending and tactical substitutions that make sense. I love the way we excite – and I despair the way we sometimes defend. It is not all down to players making bad decisions, poor refereeing and Lady Luck having a laugh. I am sure you possess a mirror.

It cannot continue like this. Either do something radical with your planning preparation training tactics prayers – or you'll have lost more than just another winnable game.

I cannot help but like you – as to me you've understood the whole special Evertonian thing – it has clicked and you have the feeling and the passion, but now is the time to help yourself – and learn to defend – damn quickly.

There's not many of us who still have your back. But as an Evertonian – back you I will.

After watching the blues for over 50 years, this has to be one of the most frustrating seasons ever so far. One of the best squads of players who may never reach their potential under the Martinez leadership. I really hope that Martinez achieves success with us cos he comes across as a gentlemen and understands our values and history – but his after-match comments are now becoming embarrassing and we really don't believe in him any more. Get some help Roberto – particularly a defensive coach... I mean, Dennis Lawrence?!? He cannot be the answer?

If we see no improvement, further illogical substitutions, the fans will become even more hostile and the board must see a change is needed. His performance is just not good enough.

Mr Martinez and his coaching team are incapable of managing games, continually repeating the same mistakes, and have crucially lost the confidence of match-going fans. RM will have completed 3 years service at the end of the season with another mid table finish an absolute certainty, good enough only for the low level of expectation engendered by the Kenwright regime.

Even an FA Cup win should not be a good enough reason for his retention, his win in the same competition being the sole reason for what I believed at the time was a very lazy appointment by Mr Kenwright.

The forthcoming investment from Mr Moshiri must surely see a new man in charge this summer, with an unusually large choice of suitable appointees available.

Difficult to be so balanced when feeling so annoyed and disappointed and over whelmed with déjà vu. Roberto comes out with the same over-long excuses week after week. Despite these long, and now over familiar excuses, I still don't recall hearing "I got it wrong tactically when we were up and comfortable" or "The substitution didn't work as I expected" (aka "I got it wrong").

What's the solution?

(A) Lock him in the dressing room after 70 minutes of each game.

Or

(B) Say thanks, it nearly worked, but looks like it never will now, there are a couple of vacancies in the Championship that would suite you.

Geoff, it wasn't a poor team selection. The team he picked worked and was playing well until that fuckin idiot got sent off again (hope he fucks off). Even after halftime where Martinez ( who never has a plan b) made changes, we were the better team for 30 minutes.

If Lukaku scores, we go on and win and everyone praises Martinez on a great game. Instead, he takes a forward off because he is fucked and he puts another forward on (should have been Barry) and we concede 3 goals. Who would have guessed that would happen?

Nice to see Niasse has been given enough time to show what he can do.

What I can say, from one old Gwladys St. ender to another, is the sands of time are running out for him. We've seen this before with Bingham, Lee, Walker, Smith etc....... Once he loses the fanbase even the most stubborn chairman will have to take notice and, sooner or later, action and Roberto is quickly running out of supporters.

A week which started so positively has ended once again with a kick in the teeth. Major decisions need to be made now but who is in charge at Everton? Who is making the decisions? Our lame duck chairman or our invisible investor?

Brian, you could help us answer this question with your ITK contacts. What the hell is going on at boardroom level? Has Earl and co actually been paid off? Has Moshiri sent the cheque and signed the papers? Is Martinez held to account after a result like this? Is there a conversation between chairman and manager after each game (win, lose or draw)?

I don't want to go on about this ownership issue but until it's settled we will continue to drift as the lunatics (IMO) have taken over the asylum.

We burgled the Capital One Cup, up to the first leg of the semi-final, where we played out of our skins and fully deserved our victory against Man City to compensate for the lack of competition up until then. However, we got found out in the second leg and, even bad decisions aside, deservedly lost!

Here we are again! We have burgled our way into a tie against Chelsea and, in order to get past them and win, every player will have to give a minimum 7/10 or 8/10 performance. For me, that is a big ask, based on the the theatrics thus far by Martinez's strategy... or lack of it!

However, I know we are well capable of doing it on the day. The worrying thing for me is our cabability to defeat top teams, only to decieve against lesser opposition. All that said... COYB

But the evidence is there for all to see (and has been for a long time now). It is damning of the manager, given the team, squad, resources available. Only the deluded can't see it now.

Unfortunately, I think the eject button is broken.
We're heading off a cliff if this guy stays in charge beyond this season.

He is a disaster waiting to happen (with or without the FA Cup).

We can't start a new era with a snake oil salesman in charge.

Let him waffle and bullshit his way through the Euros as an 'expert' pundit and former Everton manager.

ASAP, please, as a matter of considerable urgency, just phone for a taxi for two: Roberto and Dennis,

Thanking you,

Evertonians everywhere.

Please rid us of this fraud of a manager.... It is has been my strongly held view since losing 2-0 away to Hull last season (I think Jan 15 ?) his time was finally up.

We are going nowhere with this baffoon (and that turkey Mr Jones) in charge of EFC. What I witnessed (again) at Goodison yesterday was the absolute final straw.

With immediate effect I / we as fans expect strong and decisive leadership from our board ideally starting with RM's departure from our club, preferably not later than after Saturday's probable exit from the FA Cup or at the latest by the Summer.

So, it's over to you now, Mr Moshiri, to begin your reign and do what I think a majority of fans are hoping for.... Welcome to Everton.

Then yesterday, all we need to do is lock down and secure a much needed home win and he takes off our best offensive (and defensive) asset and gives him 25 minutes! What other manager in the league would do that?

There are circumstances when it might be astutely counter-intuitive to bring on a second striker when you're protecting a lead rather than chasing the game. But to recap, we were 2-0 up, a man down, and we'd just missed a penalty, giving the opposition an obvious lift. Even if you can justify taking off your hardest-working player at that point, why would you replace him with a rookie striker, not so much unproven at this level as not even seen, when you have 30 years of Premier League experience elsewhere on the bench?

It handed West Ham an advantage that they quickly exploited, and while of course I agree with all the above comments pointing out that the players were to blame too, they'd all put in a tremendous shift by that point (fantastic to open up a 2-0 lead against ten men) and they needed tactical savvy from the manager. What they got instead was tactical ineptitude masquerading as savvy. You might see method in his madness, Greg, but an overwhelming majority of fans yesterday saw only madness in his method.

When these lads, and sages such as Harold, Colin Glassar and others, plus the excellent author Brian Viner, say – very politely -– that enough is enough, well... enough is definitely enough. The hopefully incoming Mr Moshiri will display the business acumen that got him where he is, and dump this affable fraudster with alacrity.

We are scoring goals galore and are an entertaining side, but I won't disagree with anyone who says he deserves to go, we should hold every manager to high standards at this club. His job now rests on ending our trophy drought, plain and simple.

It's easy to lay all the blame on the manager, but Mirallas and Lukaku were more culpable for that defeat yesterday. The fuckers also cost me a small fortune on an accumulator!

Until that point I think he's good at all the other areas of being a football manager but then he just fucks it up over and over come match day.

Same mistakes. Inability to see the right changes. It's so frustrating.

Now the opposition even blatantly state the obvious counter to Martinez's "Philosophy" that anyone with half an eye and a basic football knowledge can see, and are so confident it will work they spout in the press:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Everton-cant-deal-crosses-west-10997391

And guess what? The idiot will STILL not change and press ahead with it, thinking it will work.

This is why he goes down the League year on year.

Nobody has really commented about the effect that Anthony Taylor had on the game, after all he was West Ham's 12th man. Mirallas's first booking was incorrect – despite what that gobshite Shearer said on MotD – it wasn't an obvious dive. However, there was enough doubt as to whether it was a foul for Taylor to wave play on rather than stopping the game and booking Mirallas.

Later in the game, a West Ham player went down under a challenge and was complaining. The ref allowed play to continue doing the usual things that ref's do, signalling for him to get up. Why didn't he stop the game and book the West Ham player?

Barry wasn't well enough to start, a chest infection apparently. The Lennon substitution wasn't as unlike for like as described on here. He was playing up front not wide in the second half, supporting Lukaku. Coleman started as a wingback, went right midfield and ended up back in his normal position. Ross Barkley was outstanding as was Lukaku. The defence were superb until the final 12 minutes.

The booing of Noble was correct because of laying hands up to McCarthy for which he should have been booked at the very least, he did everything in his power to get Mirallas sent off, short of waving an imaginary card. Note that the player who was fouled by Mirallas was not booed when he recovered. Booing Noble did not take away at all from getting behind the team.

It is very easy and lazy to blame the manager as most people on here always do. Yesterday, however, Anthony Taylor was completely and utterly to blame and should not be allowed to referee Everton again.

With regard to Brian's letter, Some good points and I agree particularly about seeing out a game but when you say "what I can't remember happening in my 45 years as a diehard Everton fan is seeing a team so repeatedly and catastrophically incapable of protecting a lead", I find that hard to believe. Please don't ask for examples as I'm in to my 50th year of support and my memory isn't what it used to be.

I also don't agree with the 'coward' remark re Lukaku's penalty miss. It was a bloody awful pen and deserved criticism, especially as we would have probably gone on to win the match had he scored. Also hello from Hillside, Brian.

Harold Matthews, re Distin, an incident happened which I can't go into here because of the libel laws... suffice to say Martinez was not wrong in treating Distin the way he did after it.

Three seasons is, IMO, enough time to judge a manager. Roberto has assembled a squad of fine, young, talented players but his Achilles heel is defending. He failed miserably at Wigan in this area and now he's repeating the same mistakes with Everton. So that's what? Five seasons continuing to make the same defensive errors? In any walk of life if you did that you'd find it hard to even keep a council job never mind managing a top club and earning a fortune to boot.

Or we just wanted Roberto in the stands instead to knock some sense into him.

Great read, Brian. Says it all.

In any other walk of life, would a business appointment a man who, on a week to week to basis, doesn't deliver? If he'd ran a business into the ground, would you appointment him to run yours? Or was the thinking that given a bigger budget, he will deliver?

I am not having a pop really, I just don't get the thinking of why he was appointed in the first place. I was always sceptical, but willing to give him a go but it's not working out and, sadly, unless there is a change, we all know what to expect.

Our upcoming fixtures should be interesting... at least we are safe... for this season.

He has assembled a fine young squad and until it comes to actually managing a match he does a lot right.

So leave it to the end of the season then sack him asap and bring in a credible manager, I have said before someone like Hiddink. The players will stay and maybe we can do a Leicester next season.

This season is a write-off and sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. We haven't a hope in hell of beating Chelsea but even the Martinez supporters will have to accept that he is not the right man for the job.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum......

It's fucking simple boys – close the wingers and don't give them time to settle, look up and pick their spot. And before someone says Bainsey should have been on instead of Bryan – he's often as guilty as any one – standing off and flapping a leg in the hope he's got the trajectory right.

If we cut out half of the crosses this season, we would have conceded half of the goals we have – even with our centre-halves. This is simple managerial application on the training ground – so Brian, your letter has it spot on – to place the blame at the door of one of the most potent attacking forces in the Premier League is not only shameful – it could hasten Rom's decision to move on in the summer.

Cut the crosses out!

He has built on David Moyes's squad and we are undoubtedly more potent up front. But this is a results business and I'm afraid Martinez is now hopelessly out of his depth thinking that any form of defensive thought is a sign of weakness. He is tactically outflanked by most Premier League managers and is unable or unwilling to think and react during a game.

Goodison Park yesterday played its part in roaring the team on and reacting to the chasing and harrying of the likes of Besic and Lennon. But if, after all that effort, you denude your midfield of part of its defensive shield, allowing the likes of Payet the freedom of the park, then the result is (and was) inevitable.

I'll still be there next week and forever until I'm sitting on that subs bench in the sky but I don't expect that RM will be here much longer. Any investor worth his salt will have noted how supposedly lesser squads like Leicester City or Southampton achieve better results whilst this clown talks of good moments and long-term plans.

Its frustrating at the moment and I don't expect change before the close season but, after the last game, I expect this guy to be dumped – move on and don't entrust a penny more to him.

I haven't read Martinez's explanations. I won't bother – there are none that hold water. A well-considered and articulate piece from Brian. Above all it is constructive. I hope the players have the drive and professionalism to learn from today. I'm not sure Martinez has the humility to do so though.

We could even leave until the end of the window as Martinez is good in the transfer market get him to spend the warchest then replace him with Hiddink in September!

I think it is all moot really as you would think once Moshiri comes aboard he will have his own man in mind.

Something has to be done. I'm almost at the point of not wanting to watch us again this season.

Faced with 15 minutes remaining and leading by 2-0 were the players incapable of adopting a totally organised defensive formation to thwart West Ham? In the period between the end of one coach's time and the advent of another at Barcelona and the bedding in of three of their great attacking players they now have, even Barcelona found it difficult at times to break down teams who set out to defend in an organised, disciplined, "professional" manner. Even they were thwarted by the "two banks of four" strategies etc for a period. I am old enough to have seen the great masters of this art namely Inter Milan in the 1960s.

Part of a professional approach to a team game is to be able to adapt to changed circumstances. Is Jagielka as captain incapable of instigating such adaptation in the course of the game by each individual or unit in the team? These are supposed to be seasoned, experienced players. Is this increasingly inane manager incapable of switching and modifying the team's structure in order to achieve a result which of course is always to win! Do they actually know how to rearrange their roles, formation etc? The introduction of this new signing seems to have been a disaster because it , and he, appeared clueless. Are we seriously saying that ten obscenely paid players are incapable of knowing how to protect a two goal lead – for 15 minutes?!

The management need to be hauled over the coals for their part not only in the events of yesterday but in their dereliction in ensuring that these guys who go onto the pitch are fully educated and competent in the various arts of the game. What do they DO at this Finch Farm? As for the players themselves they are either thick or incompetent, they are very definitely clueless. Mr Mirallas perhaps the personification of it all!

I turned after Swansea at home, but was still persuadable. Not now, I don't believe he will ever put together a proper league campaign, as he doesn't understand what it means to consistently pick up results in all circumstances.

Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge knows that a cup is far more winnable than the league. Why? One-off games that are subject to the luck of the draw and players more able to raise their game.

Look no further than our very own current manager winning the FA Cup with Wigan then taking them down ... then abandoning ship in rat-like fashion.

Even with the FA Cup, next season will likely be another one of wasted opportunities.Why? Because the evidence points towards RM being stubborn, lacking tactical savvy and not being able to learn from his mistakes.

No more ifs (e.g. we get a defensive coach) or buts (with a bit more luck, a couple of additions etc) because it ain't happening based on the last 18 months of wasted talent and opportunity.

And blaming Lukaku (we were 2-0 up when he missed the pen) and Mirallas (we went 2-0 up without him) for yesterday's debacle is also conveniently glossing over the longer term accumulated evidence of a manager who is out of his depth.

It seems that Roberto is heading to a crunch time at Goodison where he looks out of his depth. We have to organise the defence in the most basic way so it looks like the coaching staff needs to be bolstered at the very least. The big question for me is whether he can be trusted in the transfer market?

Next Summer is huge and could easily be squandered. We've certainly signed some very good attacking players in the past couple of years but we've clearly needed a goalkeeper for at least three transfer windows and I now think we probably need two so we have decent cover.

If Roberto stays, we can assume that we'll lose Lukaku to PSG, possibly Stones to one of the Manchester clubs and less likely Barkley. If the manager goes, then we may end up keeping these and moving forward.

I've never really been a sack the manager type, but it seems that the club is heading to a critical summer and I'm not convinced the right leader is in place.

Lennon was spent and did very little in the 10 minutes before he was substituted. According to Lyndon there are reports that Gareth Barry was recovering from a bug of some sorts.

People are acting as though it was one way traffic after Lennon went off and that simply isn't true. Most football observers will agree that you need to keep some outlets even when defending because otherwise you just can't relieve the pressure. If Martinez had gone defensive and the oppo had gone on to win he would rightfully be getting slaughtered for that 'naivety'.

Barry was on the pitch for their third and I don't see how he would materially have affected the other two. This is simply people being clever after the fact.

You don't have to be a genius to have worked out by now that this team is susceptible to conceding goals in rapid succession. I expected West Ham to have a stronger finish than us from the moment we went down to ten men.

Martinez has failings he must be held to account for but to blast his game management yesterday is to ignore the things he had to contend with that we're simply beyond his control.

A less stubborn man would have addressed this over the last 18 months. Yes, Tim Howard has been dropped and we now have a keeper in who looks stronger and more confident facing corners. Unfortunately it's just papering over the cracks. The defence also needs to do work at the training ground on basic bread and butter defending. The defensive coach, Dennis Lawrence needs to be sacked but the buck ultimately rests with Roberto.

I think we were unlucky yesterday with some decisions and the idiot getting sent off needlessly in the 1st half. Ordinarily this could be used as mitigation but this result cannot be seen as a one-off. We've lost count of the games where we've surrendered 1 or 2 goal leads. I watch games now where we go into a lead and don't feel convinced we'll win unless we score 3.

This goes against the whole philosophy of football. Everton Football Club aren't minnows playing in the lower league facing Premier League champions. If we go into the lead against another Premier League side we should expect to win.

This can't go on. It's time for Roberto to go...

Just to put yesterday's game in perspective, I can't see any other Premier League manager making that Niasse substitution.

Also, please explain the point of football to me, if it's not winning trophies or titles – I must have it all wrong.

Barkley was hopeless in the 2nd half, repeatedly giving the ball away or getting in to trouble – watching him & McCarthy I often think they don't realise which end we're kicking towards. I don't have a problem with passing the ball back when necessary, but these two are obsessed with doing it. Such a shame in Ross's case 'cos he has great ability, whereas McCarthy is a mediocre midfield player at best.

We'll never be a top side with those 2 in our midfield; all outfield players have to work for 90 mins – Ross Barkley plays like it's all about the occasional 2-minute burst – totally put to shame by the effort Lennon puts in.

I've said it before and will say it again – top teams attack and defend as a team; we definitely don't defend as a team.

Hope I'm wrong, but can't see us beating Chelsea next week. I was supportive of RM, but am rapidly losing faith in him. Unfair to judge Niasse yesterday, but signs weren't encouraging.

However, if we do lift the FA Cup in May, I don't think there will be many Blues agreeing with that particular point of view. That's the reason for playing the game isn't it? Trophies.

It's clear that we will now finish mid-table after losing to Chelsea in the Cup and to our neighbours in the derby. More frightening than that, Martinez will still be our manager next season.

If, on the other hand, he does go, I hope to heck we don't appoint a British manager as they are totally inept tactically; this ineptness has rubbed off on Martinez.

The purpose is not to 'avoid negativity' – that was Oddballs purpose in Kelly's Heroes but that was a film. It's not to 'establish a Philosophy' – that is best left to the academics. IT IS TO WIN. You don't get it and you are not fit for our purpose.

I don't think you meant it the way I am taking it but it might mean that Martinez would step in and say "If he goes I go" and that would be the problem solved and most of us happy, plus no compensation to pay out.

It will not happen of course, it's a nice thought though.

I know lots of others are taking a long-term view of Everton's situation but the players have got to take responsibility for their mistakes.

We have heard too many excuses this season and it has to stop. Without the exploits of Lukaku, Barkley and more recently Lennon, Everton would be relegation fodder.

The home record is abysmal and so dejecting for all especially those travelling far and paying good money for every home game. It's time to pay the piper Roberto as what you are doing is just not acceptable anymore.

But in a way all this deflects us from the main argument, which is that a team that routinely blows two-goal leads must have something fundamentally wrong with it, and it's the manager's job to sort out the problem. Unfortunately, and it really does pain me to say so, it is becoming clear that he IS the problem.

Didn't you just paraphrase my posts #51 and #75?

Not that I have a problem with that, I think they are both spot on (obviously). The Lawrence one is something I have been shouting for months. If ever there was a totally unnecessary and pointless drain on Club finances it is that he is making a living partly funded by my hard earned cash, which really grates with me both as a punter (for funding it) and a shareholder (in terms of accountability for where the Club spends). Is there no concept of performance related pay in EFC?

But just saying, like.

Yes I want RM out regardless of short term Cup success as that has no bearing on his longer term track record in the league.

Yes, football is about trophies and titles. (Not sure why you introduced that into the mini debate as it is clearly obvious even to those who are thick as a brick. Having said that, wasn't RM quoted as saying that he focuses on performances rather than results?)

In my view, we won't win any title with a manager who can't coach a defense or learn from his mistakes. We might win a cup in the short term - but, for me, that won't justify his longer term tenure based on the evidence to date.

It'll just be another wasted season.

Remember when Chelsea stuffed us 6-3 at home last season? Well, the manager who masterminded that calamity is clearly the same manager we have now and - guess what? - his defence is hardly any better than it was then.

In other words, any titles or CL qualification via the league (RM's stated ambition) are not going to happen with that kind of coach on board. He is not learning from his mistakes and obviously lacks savvy in terms of game management.

And I think you'll be surprised by the number of people who want rid of him regardless of FA Cup success. I hope he wins it and that his lifting the trophy is also his swansong. I want real success in the league from a manager worthy of Everton F.C.

I'm off for a pint.
Over and out.

If Lennon was knackered then he had the option of putting Baines on or Deulofeu (if you want an outlet). It was terrible management and a reflection that he's out of his depth.

Looking at the last 10 years...we were established under Moyes as a regular top 7 club, with a decent shot every year at 5th and the hope we could push into the top 4 (as DM did indeed achieve once).

Roberto maintained that and promised to build upon in it in his first impressive season. However to my mind the further we went away from the platform DM had built and down RM's ideological path and the more it became 'his' tactics and team, the more the wheels have fallen off.

We ran out of steam physically and mentally at the end of the 2013-14 season and have been repeating the same mistakes ever since, i.e.: Open approach to defence, poor at corners/crosses, over reliance on possession for possession's sake, failure to react to changes on the pitch with appropriate subs/tactics/plan B.

2006-07- 6th
2007-08: 5th
2008-09: 5th
2009-10: 8th
2010-11: 7th
2011-12: 7th
2012-13: 6th
2013-14: 5th
2014-15: 11th
2015-16: Currently 11th with 10 to play and with home form that would have us in the relegation spots.

We've won 9 games in total this season, that's less than 30% win-rate and almost half as many as the likes of Leicester or Spurs (teams who I don't believe have better squads than us). We're 12 points off 4th and now 6 points off one of the poorest Liverpool squads in living memory in 7th.

I repeat my opening refrain. It's a results business and despite having one of our best squads of the last 20 years, money to spend and not especially terrible injury problems, the results have been bad.

He's had 3 seasons and the whole project is showing no signs of moving forwards in anything other than providing entertainment value for neutral (or opposition) supporters.

In other words he's had a decent chance and he's failed. What possible argument is there for keeping the guy on for another season?

Yesterday, Noble showed him how it's supposed to be done. At least a dozen times he was sparring with that useless (𧴜k pa + expenses) referee. Time's up Jags, relinquish the armband and give it to someone with some tenacity.

We are lightweight – a soft touch. No steel, no grit, not tactical nous.

Football is about Trophies only to fans who are Trophy hunters, for most it is entertainment. For most fans who watch the game the only aspiration they can have is not winning a trophy but playing to or above their potential and most fans love the game when this is the only measure of success. For the others there's United and Liverpool.

I'd not read all the thread before posting so no intentional paraphrasing about Dennis Lawrence. It makes a nice change that all contributors are all singing from the same hymn sheet for once.

I actually posted something last season about the need to sack Lawrence around the new year period after the dismal results against Hull and Stoke. No offence to the guy but he hasn't got the best credentials anyway as a lower league journeyman defender..but he also seems to be a complete 'yes' man to boot.

I remember a few seasons ago Arsenal had a really shaky period defensively and they brought Steve Bould in. West Ham did it with Teddy Sheringham when they couldn't hit a barn door and guess what..it worked in both instances.

I think Lawrence going last summer would have been some kind of acknowledgement from Martinez that defensive play hasn't been good enough. God knows why it didn't happen. I can only surmise that Roberto knows best and he's sticking with his mantra that it doesn't matter if we concede as long as we score more, and Dennis Lawrence is a 'yes' man.

I don't think Roberto will go until the summer, but Lawrence being sacked now would be some kind of acknowledgement from Martinez that he's actually wrong on some things. Albeit a sacking, that's too little, too late now.

The league placings do not lie. Keep the joker for another season and we are in deep deep trouble. The board need to act now. Forget the FA Cup, we have not got a hope in hell of winning it. Looking at our defence yesterday Chelsea will have a field day.

Hopefully that will be his last game in charge. That said, I will be there cheering us on. We live in hope... Because that's all we have.

Too many of our fans accept the mediocrity (and that is being generous) on offer at Goodison. Our home record over the past 2 seasons in the league:

P - 34
W - 11
D - 11
L - 12

We have won less than a 1/3 of our home games since the start of last season. Scandalous.

We have won the same number of home games during this tome as Newcastle. Disgraceful.

West Brom have won more home games during that time than us. Inexcusable.

"When I go to the games I tend to sit near enough opposite to the dug out in the upper Bullens. Bobby Martin's assistant Jones, who was at Wigan with him, seems to control the substitutions. This was confirmed by a supporter who sits next to the dug out with his kids.

After the WBA game this supporter came on the radio, Snods & Saint show, when I was driving home from Goodison and stated he heard all the conversation on the bench and confirmed Bobby did not bother himself or intervened on any of the subs. However he did say that Big Dunc was argueing with Jones and disagreeing with his sub choice along with some of the players on the bench. This Jones bloke is not well liked at Goodison and what the supporter says, he has control of Bobby?

Then again, if you are the Manager, then you are the decision maker. "

With the Sky money; elements of the current squad; promised new and relatively substantial investment and the power of the Premier League brand, this job would be an attractive one to top managers. It has been said before, but Liverpool had a manager who very nearly won a title, developed two strikers to the extent that they were, at least at the time, valued at 80m and 50m and also played attractive football. However, things started to wane, they saw a manager who they believed was an upgrade and they made the change. People talk about needing to give managers time, but there is also a need to be ruthless at the top. This is no different to any manager/executive/boss of any corporation, be it football or not. If the manager of 'John Lewis' doesn't get results, he is moved on- and compensated for it. Unfortunately, one thing the Kenwright administration have done is make the club too inward and too local. Although there is a place for this, and it is essential for the fanbase and the city, there needs to be a sense of hard nosed corporatism too. Hopefully, Moshiri will bring that, but it is needed now.

Personally, I would look to make a change now and spend the time looking for a replacement ready for summer. I reckon De Boer should be considered. Although it doesn't always make a manager, I think that we are in a position that we need a name. It'll help to 'sell' the club when we don't have European competition. I also like where he has come from- Ajax have the philosophy of bringing through and blooding players that is similar to Everton. Similarly, looking at this season, anyone who has won a Champions League playing at centre half has got to be an upgrade. Ronald Koeman also worth a look. With new investment, would this be seen as a step up from Southampton in the same way that Spurs was to Pochetino?

Overall, there is the overriding view that this could have worked and it could have been special, but there are fine margins at the top. All the best, Roberto!

However, I disagree with its conclusion.

I see no reason why a man, on a multi million pound contract, managing a club of our size and prestige, should be counselled to learn the art of defending and protecting a lead.

If Martinez needs to be mentored in the critical defensive aspects of the game, he is welcome to step down and assume the post of assistant manager, working and learning from someone with game management nous.

He is not welcome to learn on the job. Not when he inherited a talented squad, and given considerable funds to strengthen.

I think the lack of defensive aptitude is however not down to a lack of knowledge but down to a mis guided philosophy based on regarding the less glamorous aspects of the game, such as closing down, marking, making the most of set pieces, as being less important to focus on.

This philosophy has been repeatedly exposed as being flawed and counter productive in the Premier League. Time for the man to pack his bags and take his coaching staff with him.

Wigan F A
2009-10 37 79
2010-11 40 61
2011-12 42 62
2012-13 47 73
Everton F A
2013-14 61 39
2014-15 48 50
2015-16 51 39(and counting)
Total Against: 403

I wanted him thrown out midway through last season and nothing has changed for me.

However, now that we have not been dragged in to this seasons relegation battle I am more than happy for Martinez to see this season out.

The reason being that he has the remaining games to completely fuck up, such that the few remaining Martinez supporters will finally admit that this clown is totally unfit to represent Our football club.

Every week the pro Martinez mob are dwindling. We still get the usual, it was the refs fault, we lost the balance when such and such went off, now it's Mirallas' fault or Lukakus penalty miss.

There's always an excuse. However, the longer Martinez continues to fuck up the excuses will become less and less.

Finally, regardless of us winning the Cup - pigs might fly - this joker of a manager should be sacked an hour after Jagielka lifts it.

It is a description that could equally apply to our manager.

I was underwhelmed at his appointment, but was willing to give him time in the role. By the end of his debut season, I was a convert.

He managed to retain the steely demeanour of Moyes' Everton and welded on to that an attacking flair and a genuine 'sin miedo' 'philosophy' that carried us to 5th in the table with a record points haul for the PL era.

He recruited well, regularly introduced effective subs at different phases of the game, who impacted on the game to Everton's benefit. He made subtle tactical changes in games which also had positive outcomes.

His embracing and understanding of Everton's history was impressive. His perpetual positivity was uplifting and inspirational.

There was a real sense of anticpation at the start of his 2nd season, given all the positive evidence of his first season, that Everton could seriously challenge the clique at the top table in the PL.

It proved to be a damp squid of a season that never ignited. And whilst Roberto never relented in his media appearances in his positivity, the 'sin miedo' philosophy, inspirational subs and tactical tweakings seemingly evaporated to ... nothingness.

If anything, there was a disturbing regression in the performance of the manager, the players and the collective, the team.

Doubts were raised as to his true calibre as a manager. This season, whilst the goals have satisfyingly flowed into our 'For' column, so have they poured into our 'Against' column. This season is more akin to season 2, rather than season 1, especially with regard to our truly appalling home record and woeful inability to close out a game from a winning position.

I acknowledge playing a game of 'ifs and buts and maybes' is a futile exercise, BUT! IF we had closed out just 4 games from winning positions this season - namely, away to Bournemouth and Chelsea and home to Stoke and now der 'ammers, we would have 10 more points than our current 38 - an uplift of more than 25%.

As a result, our tally would be 48 points, WHU down to 46, Stoke 40 and Chelsea 39 and - on current standings we would be 5th, squeezed between the 2 Manchester clubs.

This 'revisionist view' doesn't even take into account exasperating defeats to the likes of WBA and Swansea.

For the diminishing few still lending their support to RM, I suggest that this character flaw of the team lays primarily at his feet. To think otherwise is to ignore the many direct quotes in which he states again and again and again: Everton is not and will never (under his stewardship) be set up to NOT concede goals, or to play the game out in any negative fashion from a winning position at the death.

I quite honestly don't know of any other football manager plying his wares at the very top level who has made such regular declarations in these terms.

As I've said on these pages before, at present under Martinez, no team, no opposition, is EVER without hope of achieving a result against Everton, regardless of the scoreline, the game time or however dominant and in control for the vast majority of a game Everton appear to be. WHU yesterday is another game we can add to a growing list of worrying examples.

Roberto Martinez has many skills, of that I've no doubt. But it is my belief he is an idealist, who won't be deflected from his 'philosophy' on how the game should be played.

Kudos and respect to him. As in life and certainly in top level sport, you only reach the top if you have a great deal of drive and determination. However, there is a subtle difference in being determined and being stubborn. If you persist with the same habits which are clearly to the detriment of your overall well-being, rather than change to healthier, more rewarding habits, you are simply being stubborn and intransigent.

I recall in the depths of the bleak mid-winter of his 2nd season, many on TW called for a more pragmatic approach to halt a disturbing slide down the table.

It was an approach seemingly called for and echoed by the players, as revealed by Lukaku that the players had asked the manager for tactical tweaks. There was an uplift in form following this.

With new ownership due to be confirmed, together with the massive infusion of cash from the improved TV deal, Everton are in an optimum position to break free of the shackles that have arrested our development for almost the entirety of the PL era.

Pivotal to the success of that is ... who is our manager and how he manages the team.

A piecemeal solution as suggested by some - appoint RM as director of football, but appoint a new manager; insist he appoints a defensive coach, etc ... won't work.

Either we back him, or sack him. And until Moshri is confirmed as the de facto owner of EFC and we hear of his vision for the club, RM isn't going anywhere soon.

Martin Mason, I don't entirely disagree with your post but I agree, it's the league that counts for me. Cups are the icing on the cake but it's where you finish in the league that shows where you are as a team. Give me a league title any day over a cup.

And that leads me to my real point: Martinez in many ways is a brilliant ambassador for Everton, he's got an eye for a player and players like Barkley have improved under him, but he's not a "lucky" manager, or, if you like, an effective one, in terms of results. In many ways, I think he's possibly the most intelligent manager in the Premier League, but the least clever one, if you get my meaning. I get the feeling that a more results-based manager will reap the benefits of the set of players he's assembled and the work he's done with them, in the short-term at least.

For the record, I wanted him sacked after the draw at Chelsea. I love the way we play now going forward: we play the best attacking football I've ever seen an Everton team play (I started going in '89), but in the end, I want Everton to win - and we don't do it enough.

We as football fans watch as Leicester achieve beyond expectation and hope that they can maintain their run, but why are we not talking about our club in the same way? MotD point out time and time again about the quality in our team but, as yesterday has proven, it's about match management and sending us the supporters away home happy.

I to travel with my two lifelong Everton supporting brothers from Northern Ireland and while I realise and accept we can't win them all... but we should at least be happy in the knowledge that the best team won. I was out last night with one of my brothers and at the start of the evening we couldn't not go over the nature of that game, as expected we were both miserable at the result. But we both agreed Roberto is not the man for our team. We have new money at our great club and we all look forward but surely one simple question must be answered first.

Just as a footnote, a good friend and fellow Evertonian lamented when we appointed Roberto citing the style at Wigan; I commented at the time that maybe he would do much better at a bigger club with better players. Let me say we're lucky other teams are not not doing better otherwise I would fear the worst. So thanks for your efforts but move over... and to the board: listen to us and move to end the misery.

RM said in his post match interview that he took Lennon off because he could hardly walk, I have to say from my seat in the Upper Bullens I didn't get the impression that Lennon had nothing left. But even if his view was correct then why not bring on Deulofeu a pacy winger from the bench to keep West Ham stretched. So he would be changing like for like.

I couldn't believe it when I saw Niasse coming on, this guy looked totally out of his depth. That substitution sucked all the energy out of the team, and we all know that although Barkley is a talented footballer defending his something he hates to do. Surely he would have been better bringing Deulofeu for Lennon and Barry for Barkley.

I see some fans again talking about bringing in a defensive coach, well the Arsenal fans screamed at Wenger to do this a couple of seasons back. So to pay lip service he brought in Steve Bould. But Wenger's philosophy never changed so the impact that Bould has had has been negated by Wenger's tactics. And that's exactly what would happen if RM brought a defensive coach in. Its the philosophy that has to change, and that means changing the manager.

How far this club has to slide before any action is taken I don't know, the first year was a one off. He took over a well drilled any well motivated group of players and added a little bit of flair, without tinkering with the teams defensive work ethic. But now the team is playing in the style that the manager wants, which is irrespective of the score you play exactly the same way all through a game.

His game management is nil, because he doesn't do game management its a one style fits all philosophy. There is no mystery as why we have dropped so many points from being ahead, it's because the manager will not change his style no matter what the score is. The same philosophy that got Wigan relegated from memory they led many games in their final season in the Premier League but failed to see out many for the wins that could have kept them up.

And as for the Stones substitution. Well in my opinion, he shouldn't have been on the team to start with. It was obvious from the Villa game when he came on near the end that Martinez was doing all he could to accommodate him.

Besic probably should have started with Stones coming on at half time to counteract the added threat of Carroll. It was pretty obvious at half-time that West Ham were going to start launching balls into the area but by then we had removed one of the defenders that we could have done something about it.

In this scenario we should try and and tempt Mourinho before United nab him. Rudi Garcia is also a free agent. I think Dunc as interim manager until the summer would be interesting if we wanted a manager who is already in a job, like Howe or Koeman.

Look at the second goal again and ask yourself what manager wouldn't be furious at the display. Ours isn't – he thinks it is all about morale, which was somehow shattered upon the penalty miss. Even if that was true, isn't the morale his responsibility too?

I didn't see him shouting encouragement from the sideline, unlike Bilic. And strangely, Man City managed to not concede 3 goals after Aguero's penalty miss against Villa. How is that possible, Roberto?

Also, why was Stones playing yesterday? Was this to facilitate him and his agent. For me, the team comes first all day. Was Martinez trying to show our new investors how clever and tactically astute he is?

Mr Moshiri – please do us long-suffering but loyal supporters a big favour and please get rid of the imposter called Martinez.

And c'mon, Man City not feeling downhearted and not conceding three against Villa after missing a penalty is not at all comparable with our situation yesterday. Have Villa scored three times in any game this season? Even Everton were hard pressed to cock up against Villa. West Ham are a completely different kettle of fish.

It's actually got to the point where, sitting on my couch watching our games in New Zealand at 4 or 5 on a Sunday morning; I can barely muster the strength to do a celebratory fist pump if we score the first goal of a home game, as I now have an immense sense of foreboding of what is to come.

Not that I'm a religious man, but when Lukaku was lining up the penalty kick in the second half, I found myself praying that the goal would go in, as I had a suspicion of what would transpire if it didn't. Might be gallow's humor, but when the West Ham goals started raining in in the last quarter-hour, I had to laugh at the inevitability of it all (guess if I didn't, I would have been tearing my hair out!!).

Your stories of the visiting fans to Goodison Park certainly ring true with me, I've been very fortunate on my travels to have visited Goodison Park several times in spite of being a born-and-bred Kiwi, my last visit was with my wife on our honeymoon to Europe last year, when we somehow managed to lose to a poor Sunderland side 2-0 in May. I guess that was just a taste of what was to come this season.

Ultimately it's nothing for me to get out of bed a few hours early to watch Everton play live once a week on the other side of the world and pay $20 for my monthly subscription, but I feel incredibly sad for our magnificent home support who rock up to Goodison week in, week out – to watch what is arguably the best (quality-wise) Everton side of the past three decades, constantly throw away winning positions with amateurish defending, helped along by amateurish game management. Whenever I've been in Liverpool I've always been touched by how incredibly friendly our fans are and how dedicated they are to our team – in spite of the frustrations – and the knowledge that they surely deserve better than what they have been getting the past two years.

I like Martinez; but to me this weekend was enough. I thought our nadir was the Stoke home game, but we've somehow just sunk to another level.

Good luck for your future Roberto wherever it may be, but there has to be a changing of the guard for next season.

Martinez does not actually understand the nature of football management. He thinks scoring goals and attacking is the job. To be honest it was for Harry Catterick, but Harry bought Tony Kay and Dennis Stevens because he knew that, Alex Young and Roy Vernon couldn't do it all on their own.

Grow up, Roberto, or just go.

It's a mess, nothing makes sense, like a team who win the FA Cup and get relegated in the same season... who was that manager again?

I know nothing about this alleged incident but Distin made no mention of it in his recent L'Equipe interview, where he explained how Martinez refused to let him join West Ham till the end of the season and never spoke one word to him afterwards.

I also know people close to the action who consider Martinez to be a ruthless control freak. Stick with him and you're fine but woe betide anyone who utters a word against him or his philosophy.

"Let's look at the positives. There were 2 Newcastle fans sat next to me in the pub yesterday and they said they would gladly take Martinez as a manager over Mclaren."

That's like saying you would prefer that Ray Charles drive you home after a night on the piss, rather than Stevie Wonder.

But let's not be too downbeat: Moshiri is coming! Moshiri is coming!

I've been asking for a Tin Can Alley for 34 years and still nothing. WTF is going on. Are you telling me I have been on the naughty list every single year. I'm not having it.

Also I wouldn't mind getting a new Everton home jersey for Xmas – I know they are 㿞 then but I keep getting them at the end of the season when I know full well they are half the price. Where's the money gone Santa??

Finally could you please see that our players grow a pair and stand up and act like men, shoulder the responsibility as a team and stop letting the majority think its okay to hide behind the manager. That these professional sportsmen earning millions can't or won't put the tackles in and close down when we need them the most.

ps: I drank the Special Brew but left Rudolph a glass of milk

To be clear, Roberto, we're not dropping points because of referees, or missed penalties, or idiots getting sent off, or bad luck. We're dropping points because we've already conceded 3 or more goals on eight occasions this season. I've been going to Goodison since 1957 and can't recall such an appalling record, even during the dark days of the seventies and the nineties.

I hope that the new regime will introduce some much needed, transparent, accountability into the running of our great club, from the Board right down to the players. As a result, Roberto should then stand or fall by his (the team's) performance. I suspect he will be given another season, but if we're not on target for the top 4 by December, he must be replaced.

I mention that because Tony Pulis did what Martinez should have done. To protect his 1-goal lead, Pulis took off a striker (Sessignon) and replaced him with a defender. Says it all really.

That is not the same as going 4-3-2 from 4-4-1 when the other team have still all their players on the pitch and you are trying to protect your lead. For all his other faults, we would be chuckling over 3 points if we had substituted Moyes for Martinez when Mirallas got sent off. Now there is an interesting option! Substitute managers.

It seems slightly inappropriate to raise it this weekend, but have we become the new West Ham? WHU under Greenwood, Lyall. The team everyone else loved to watch and play. You knew West Ham would play good football and you would be allowed to play good football. It was exciting, exhilarating, full of goals. You even got cups ('64, '75 & '80) but the league, 7 top 10 finishes in ~30 years. Yeah, right. There was of course the 4 relegations but they were part of the package.

Thankfully I am a "he's the wrong man" even when it was mooted he would replace Moyes. No revisionism for me. When he got 70+ points, I wavered but still not convinced. Then he believed his own ego and spent the summer in Brasil and wandering around South America or wherever and built on the success by adding Besic, Galloway and Eto'o. A player who has played the equivalent of 18 matches out of 66, a teenager who looks good and an old guy who was a waste of space. At a time when we thought we can push on to a Champions League spot and the challenge of at least 10, maybe 17, more games to win a European trophy. Wasted. 47 points! I ask you. Last time we had that few? 2004-05 and the team went off the beach 5 games from the end of the season because we were safe. OK, things would change in 15/16. Not a hope.

What is perhaps most mystifying is that this is a team with 5 wins and 7 draws away from home and 6 clean sheets. At home is 4 wins and 4 draws and just 2 clean sheets. What is it with the Gung Ho approach? Why are we not set up to perform at home as we are away? Probably quite simple, away from home we can defend and break at home we go all out to score. Does the guy or the club not do statistics. Do they not delve into the performances like we do to spot patterns and change?

Perhaps it just proves the naivety of the man, why he will never change, why Wigan kept playing attacking football when they needed points to stay up and why he is the man who will take this club into the Championship if he is allowed to continue.

For those of you who still believe that Martinez is a nice man, because he understands our history and passion. How about looking at it another way.

He came here on the back of failure, he is not totally stupid, he told you what you wanted to hear. Like any politician running for election.

Tell the people what they want to hear.
If he was a nice guy he would see and feel the misery of fans such as your self Brian and the thousands of others like you.

Martines is a self serving narcissist. His post match comments prove it week after week. Always some excuse, never takes responsibility never any apologies.

Carry on being nice to a narcissist and you get exactly what you deserve. They have no respect what's so ever to people like you Brian, humility is not part of their make up.

Sure some fans on here go over the top with there less articulate way of expressing them selfs.

I have to hold back and is why I read all posts and views before making any comment.

You, me and thousands of true blue supporters live for the day when Everton FC are back in business, as a well respected football team both on and off the pitch.

Is he too soft with the players? Does he tear into the player at half-time and give them the hair-dryer treatment? In my opinion, no, he does not.

Does he need someone like the motivating Peter Reid or Joe Royle as his number two?. Someone who can get that extra 20 percent out of players? In my opinion, yes.

Brian (OP), perhaps an open letter should be directed to Moshiri more rather than the single minded manager?

The team that Martinez has around him are taking the piss; they are not good enough for Tranmere, never mind us. If you look into their past exploits, it really is frightening, especially the defensive coach, Lawrence. Funny really has anyone else noticed that since Alan Stubbs left us we can't defend for Toffee (excuse the pun).

Like everyone else at the Old Lady on Saturday I was left just staring at the pitch at the final whistle in disbelief shock and the usual feeling of you just knew it was going to happen.

Enough is enough, the man has to go, FA Cup win or not.

Adios Roberto

My mid/late 70s bus journeys from Chester (outside the old Odeon!), I never would have seen capitulation like these ones at Fortress Goodison in those days. We didn't win anything, but we had the attacking flair and the defensive steel to match (6-0 v Coventry with Dave Thomas running past me in the Paddock to deliver that cross for Latchford's final goal! – sorry, I digress).

When we have a squad to match that team, and maybe even better it – then frankly the game management of Roberto must be dreadful indeed. I haven't been a fan since that awful run from before Christmas 2014 – 15 months ago. No late run that season, or even a few cup runs this season, convinces me that Roberto, nice guy I'm sure he is, is the man to lead this team - especially if the purse strings start to be loosened.

I'd like to hope the balanced views of a true Blue can find its way to the people who matter. This season has been an amazingly wasted opportunity at time when the so-called 'Sky' clubs have been imploding. We can't have this next season!

To those saying "He doesn't tell this player to do that, or that player to do this..." I say, bollocks. Players like Barkley have the ability to be at the top of the game, and when they do bad things, they should be taken to task over it. I don't see what happens in the sheds, but from the evidence on the pitch, these players do not fear repercussions of their shortcomings, and that is just the saddest thing,