The Marriage Isn't Over... Yet

He's had enough time now and it doesn't seem to be working.

That will change though if Moyes ever comes back.

He is the Everton manager, we are Evertonians.

Our support for ANY Everton manager should be unequivocal during the game.

If the West Ham game had been a one off much of what you've said would be right. Unfortunately Saturday's result is becoming a recurring event.

Any call to "get behind the lads" always slightly offends me. I've never, ever seen a game start when the fans have not been right behind the team. It normally takes the team to begin playing at a lethargic pace from back to front with more passing than goal efforts for their enthusiasm to begin to be dampened.

This more often than not (but I accept not always) is the way we play under Martinez!

If the re-employ him I'm finished with Everton.

But with Martinez it's 100% against-ok maybe 99%, and if that dept of feeling is replicated by every blue, he hasn't got a hope of being the manager next season.

So for me the marriage is well and truly over, we're just still living in the same house.

Unless he has a get out clause in his contract if they do take the drop.

That's not happening here, we delivered what I thought was our best performance of the season last Saturday (for 70 min's!) when you consider we were down to ten men. I would love to hear what the players think of Martinez, are they still behind him? I'm not talking about the likes of Osman, Pienaar or Howard. Do Lukaku, Stones, Barkley, Besic, Deulofeu all want to play for him, and stay at the club?

We have a fine away record this season, and have given some great performances on the road, but that seems to be completely overlooked because of our horrendous home form. I believe any manager worth his salt could have any Everton side performing to par, especially at home. Two banks of four and lone strikers with a No 10 playing off him could happen tomorrow, and normal service would be resumed.

It all boils down to one question, can Martinez become a more defensively minded manager? Probably not, and that's a shame – it also seems an unbelievably naive approach from a man who has been in football all his life.

I still think he will be here next season though, regardless of the result on Saturday.

Kevin, I want to believe, I really do but he makes it so hard.

I always get behind the team regardless of who is in the technical area. That will change though if Moyes ever comes back.

So, it isn't 'regardless of who is in the techincal area' then is it?

When they are poor, clubs tend to have long poor runs and vice versa but Everton are the only club I've seen that, since that idiot took over coaching the side, we can go from unwatchably bad at home one week to scintillatingly brilliant away the next, from beaten by the bottom to winning against the best, from defending well (like Man City away) to schoolboy defence.

The problem we have three Hog days and we don't know which we'll get from week to week. The untouchable team, the unwinnable team and the team that is both in separate halfs.

This inconsistency is a classic indication of tactical mismanagement yet concurrent proof that the players can produce the goods. I really understand those who are saying don't be hasty and hasn't he done some good things and yes that is true but he is now proven to be a serial failure as a manager with a grim refusal to learn from his patent failures or, worse still, even recognise them.

To me it seems they are struggling because either their not drilled enough or properly also they lack confidence at times in games, ie, the last 20 minutes. For me the manager/coaches surely are to blame for this. Martinez sides leak goals it is a fact. Sorry but he's got to go; he's inept at defence... it's time for somebody new.

Much of what you have written is fair; apart from this sentence 'In some ways I do feel sorry for him as Everton fans can be harsh and very quick to sharpen the knives',

a) sympathy should be reserved for people who deserve it, not for football managers, who choose to do the job and get paid handsomely for it.

b) If Evertonians are harsh and too quick to sharpen their knives, it makes me wonder which set of fans are more forgiving or have shown more patience than Evertonians? I can't think of many if any – but I would be happy to know who they are.

"In some ways I do feel sorry for him as Everton fans can be harsh and very quick to sharpen the knives."

Speak for yourself, mate, I was regularly rounded upon on here for saying he was taking the piss out of Evertonians asking us to believe the pie-in-the-sky bollocks he regularly came out with. Nearly everyone has seen through him now, but it would appear there are still a few people who are happy to have the piss taken out of them.

I can only describe these people as the "Desperate to be right". They would rather he took us down further every season than accept the undying devotion they demonstrated was misplaced.

The senior pros took matters into their own hands and saved him last season; I expect them to do it again this year – starting tomorrow.

This nonsense that he has attracted some great young players annoys me too. We have Lukaku because we paid more than anyone else was prepared to pay for him, not because the manager is a magnet for bright young stars; let's not forget, the Leeds lad had another option... and he took it in a heartbeat.

Take Lukaku (and maybe Besic, who was overlooked for most of last season) out of the equations and Roberto has been very poor with his buys.

Approaching £100m spent, he is squandering his inheritance and is making international defenders look fools.

BTW Paul; You may think it was "stupid" to play Stones on Saturday, but most people will remember the scoreline when he left the field.

A world class youngster being destroyed by a second-rate manager

That is a stretch of the imagination to say the least.

At the moment he is a defender who can't defend. Very good on the ball, but world class defender? Nah.

I'm not suggesting this should be our overriding style of play but you can't hope to get success when it takes 3 goals to get something out of the game (or 4 against Stoke).

I also think he is one of the worst managers we have ever had.

Please add Funes Mori and Cleverley to that list who I think have been good additions this season. Barry also who has been, for the main part, excellent over the last three seasons.

Where would we be with say another 12 points in the bag. 47 points and right in the mix. Six results that were either poor team selection and/or poor substitutions. Remember we were 3-2 up at home to Stoke and 2-0 up at home with West Ham and blew it.

We just didn't learn from from those games earlier in the season and now, as games run out, it's all too late. Our home form is masked by our results away from home but overall its no better than relegation form.

Some players are just not good enough or consistent and have to be moved on. We just spent £13mil on a player who looks no better than Kone. I hope I'm wrong.

Fast forward a few months... he isn't even getting a game in a defence which is the laughing stock of football, he has had his confidence destroyed by a guy who thinks it's a good idea to play him at right back, he is having a miserable second season similar to the one Barkley had last season... and yet the apologists still blame the player.

"At the moment, he's a defender who cant defend"

You couldn't make this stuff up... On a thread which is about the manager, we have people attacking one of our brightest young stars in years in an attempt to deflect blame from him.

At what point does this manager take the responsibility? We have at least EIGHT international defenders who can't defend at the moment... I wonder why that is?

Stones will be back to his world class best when he doesn't have a second-rater overseeing his development

Was his ginger hair and Scottish accent so overwhelmingly difficult to cope with that you would rather we had this serial loser in charge?

Moyes will not return, and I don't think he should, but, if he was our manager this season, we'd be much higher than 12th.

Is there any logical argument to make that watching the blues under Martinez is more enjoyable than under Moyes, or is this anti-Moyes view just pure prejudice?