Be vocal – and take a stand

I have heard, however — not with any proof or corroboration I must add — that the issue of bringing standing back in any form is a non-starter with Bill because of the emotional stigma from Hillsborough.

Having looked at the Safe Standing initiative, I definitely think it should be looked at, though. As you point out, things have moved on a lot since 1989 — some of the new standing enclosures can have collapsable barriers and the sections are so small that it would be practically impossible for anything like Hillsborough to occur again under those conditions.

It may save me a few bob as well. Every away game I have been to this season 90% of it is spent standing to see past the fans in front!

Fans stand anyway and have done for years so to not ensure that it is done safely will be negligible on their part. So if anything did happen, what are they going to say? They shouldn’t have stood anyway?

So I do fully expect that Everton will mark an area that will deem standing as low risk in a new stadium.

Also, I’d like to add that my understanding is that Everton and Liverpool will have already done their homework now and have marked certain areas in Goodison and Anfield as low rick for standing, ie, not in upper tiers unless the front row is empty.

What they need to do is to follow it up as a customer service issue, ie, advertise that it is a designated standing in a seated area. That way, fans who naively buy tickets in those areas will know what to expect.

Also, I’d like to add that I don’t necessarily think that it needs to be rail seats unless they want a standing area in a steep stand or perhaps an upper tier.

I suspect a lot of supporters had decided to stand in the Gwladys St anyway at a very early point in that game.

Why take even the minimal amount of 'risk' with people’s well-being or safety based on a small minority’s wish to stand?

If another disaster occurred at some point in the future, accidental or not, would all those in favour like to be the ones who told a bereaved parent, that their son or daughter had been killed because 'we quite like the idea of standing again'.

Why is it that the case inside a football stadium? Is it due to the people attending or lack of stewarding, because every weekend, up and down the country, standing takes place in all sorts of arenas and venues large and small. In fact, one of the most famous events, Glastonbury, is all standing(?) and a little bit of dancing.

Germany and some other countries have standing areas and seem to cope. I think the real reason that seating came in was to more easily recognise the hooligan element and of course seated areas helped to push up the prices far more quickly than would have happened if the terraces had have been in use.

I mostly always sat, in the dark days of the early 80s, and never really understood paying to watch something I couldn’t see; however, I fully appreciate that some folk do enjoy the experience of the terraces of old... providing every safety issue is taken into consideration, I cannot see why standing areas cannot be provided.

Let's not forget it was bad policing and the rushing of fans through an open gate that led to the tragic deaths.... Just because people are killed driving cars are we going to make people walk?

The Premier League should introduce a health and safety standard design for designated standing areas in stadiums and it should then be up to Premier League clubs to decide if they want to introduce them in sections of the stadium. If Liverpool don’t, that's perfectly understandable but the option should be there for others.

I'm all for a section of the ground being reserved for standing. But leave the rest of the stadium seated for those that want it.

Small, sectioned-off, well thought-out areas, such as the example in the article, would be 100 times safer than what is happening all around the country just now.

If you do not want to stand, then go to a sitting area... simple really.

One of the worst things that ever happened was the knee-jerk decision of all-seater, segregated stadiums.

The late '50s early '60s was brilliant as a kid, getting a spot at the Park End of Goodison Road and getting "carried" to end the first half at the Gwladys Street end. By the end of the game, we were back at the Park End!

In all the years, I never saw or heard of anyone getting hurt.

I heard that, back in the late '50s and early '60s, we sung a version of the Boys of the Old Brigade... would you recall any of it, or any others that were sung back then?

At least these don’t move around during the match. Standing room means restricted access for kids and short arses like myself unless the rake on the terracing is pretty enormous. Either that or bring back the 17th Century high-heeled shoes.

I can’t recall anything sung to that tune; however, it wouldn’t surprise me if we did.

As you know during that period we had a huge support coming over every week on the boats from both North and South. We were from Upper Beau Street just by the Friary church and my dad drank in the Brown Cow in St Anne Street. From there, we would go along either Scottie Road or Great Homer Street onto County Road to the ground.

I swear we’d stop at every ale house and at every one there’d be God knows how many Irish lads. The singing before and after the match was great and I’m sure the Irish lads had every "rebel" song in the book.

Really it was only after the evil from across the Park got a bit of success in the mid/late '60s that we started to "share" the Irish support as I can never remember seeing them over in such numbers at RS home games prior to then.

If it genuinely provided a more affordable option then that would be great; but so would providing more reasonable seating prices.

This one's for you Ron:

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The end-of-season evaluation could easily show that it is safer than what we have now.

Strewth, I never realised how dangerous standing was! I've just sat down, so frightened was I by that. Being a short-arse, I've been standing in the Upper Bullens for years and nobody behind me has noticed.

I could be way off the mark but I suspect most in favour of a standing area would be the younger supporters and or those who would be attracted by a (presumably) cheaper entrance fee. I think Ken’s idea of season trial has a lot of merit provided that the barriers are tested when installed and then inspected before every game.

On the question of a new stadium or revitalised Goodison I may not really be entitled to an opinion given my current place of residence. Be that as it may I have to say that Given a choice I would prefer a revitalised Goodison.

Call me sentimental (or mental if you like) but I do believe certain places have a spiritual atmosphere and for generations of Evertonians Goodison is just such a place.
I think there is a possibility that our new shareholder may share that opinion.

I suppose it will get down to costs in the end however I am confident that there is a smart enough engineer somewhere in the world capable of coming up with a design that can overcome the problems relating to the church, school and surrounds of Goodison Park.

Here in Melbourne one of the greatest sporting arenas in the world the MCG, reached the stage some years ago where it needed a serious upgrade. The problem that the architectural and engineering team faced was that the footprint of the proposed new stand overlapped one of the main thoroughfares into the city. I have attached a couple of images from Google Earth showing how they solved the problem.

I have sat in that stand above Brunton Avenue at a 90,000+ AFL grand final. It is a wonderful fully seated arena and a masterpiece of modern engineering that when full still generates a wonderful atmosphere.
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We saw the rail seats at Wolfsburg last season. They provide a much safer environment than the current arrangements in our stadiums where the vast majority of away fans stand for the whole game.

Seating areas were not designed for standing. As others have said, there is a greater risk of serious injury when fans are celebrating a goal than there ever was on the old style terrace.

The law against persistent standing is now honoured more in the breach than the observance and has not been enforced at any of the 19 away grounds I have been to this season. There is certainly a need to open a meaningful debate about this but – given the hardened, largely uninformed, attitudes locally – it is difficult to see how this will happen in Merseyside.

I personally like to sit down, but as Ken says @24, not many away fans sit on their seat, so maybe it's the best way to explore what people want.

The picture in this thread shows that standing up at the match, doesn't have to be dangerous. But maybe too many people might start jibbing in again?

Brian that work that's getting done now, between Scottie and Greatie. I would have loved that to have been where we made our new ground, if we can't stay at Goodison, purely because it's in an area called Everton!

I really hate sitting down watching football, especially at Goodison where the seats are so bloody uncomfortable.

The pro-standing lobby seems to want to recreate the atmosphere of years gone by. A lot of people are suggesting a dedicated standing area... presumably behind the goal where people can indulge in "Celtic-Rangers" chants interspersed with "You're gonna get your fucking head kicked" and similar gems.

I fail to see how this small area is going to reproduce the noise of the Fulham game in 1963, the sheer delirium of the Saturday evening in 1967 when we saw off that lot in the 5th Round, or the night we battered Bayern.

Okay, I made this point with tongue in cheek but my more considered point is this: Leaving the emotive subject of Hillsborough aside, some older contributors will recall Burnden Park in 1946, I certainly recall Ibrox in 1971. I concede that in those days fans were treated little better than cattle and overcrowding was a major contributing factor. That said, I cannot imagine clubs taking the risk, however slight, of returning to standing.

Can you imagine the outcry, if, God forbid, there was any future calamity? The litigation that would surely follow! An inquest would be saying that even in the light of events in the past, a club willingly put supporters at risk by removing seats... a club would be ruined. I cannot see any of the better supported clubs going down that route.

Then there is the question of insurance... to me, it seems a real minefield that the clubs will seek to avoid. I will be astounded if any form of standing (legitimate) returns.

Now... everyone... "Bless em all, bless em all, the long and the short and the tall..."