Choosing a Manager on More Than Hope and Faith

With the distinct likelihood of Stones, Lukaku and maybe Barkley and who knows perhaps Mirallas and a couple more we could end up needing quite a few new faces. With the investment and money from sales it does offer the opportunity to rebuild.

Once the remnants of the Moyes old guard have gone he will be allowed another season to turn it around. Building from the back it has to be a top class keeper and we do need to replace Jagielka's lack of height. How long do we rely on Barry? Surely at 36 his time is up.

It's going to be an interesting summer. I hope Moshri is biding his time getting a feel for how the club runs and will start by appointing a top class CEO, implement a 5-year plan for the new stadium and have a performance-related manager.

We should take advantage of the situation, we now have financial backing, we have good players, a decent youth policy, and there aren't currently many Premier League clubs who need a new manager.

I just hope that the new regime at the blues take this opportunity and run with it.

If we have a decent project in place, were we keep the core of our young talent together, whilst having a sizable transfer kitty (which is reported to be the case), then why can't we go for the very best managers??

92-93 – 13th
93-94 – 17th
94-95 – 15th
95-96 – 6th
96-97 – 15th
97-98 – 17th
98-99 – 14th
99-00 – 14th

Perhaps all the Moyes haters have very short memories!

Unfortunately we didn't get that after the nineties, we got David Moyes who started off well and steadied the ship but did no more than that unless you are happy with being also-ran's.

The main problem we have now is if Kenwright is involved in recruiting a new manager. Already, Martinez should have been replaced... so I don't hold out much hope unless Moshiri takes full control of everything.

Now we're on course for back-to-back bottom-half finishes and with a number of our players grumbling and looking for pastures new. I've also questioned on another thread this idea that we're suddenly one of the richest clubs in the country. Even if Moshiri opens his wallet we've still only achieved parity with 75% of the Premier League clubs who've been taken over and well backed financially for some time now and there's easily at least 7 teams with deeper pockets and less infrastructure problems than we have.

Putting our blue tinted specs to one side, which of the Mourinhos, Hiddinks and Pellegrinis of this world are really going to want to potentially gamble their reputations and manage us? Realistically we'll be choosing from a pool of people wanting to chance their arm in England but without a reputation prestigious enough for the top 4 or someone who's up and coming in the UK already. I suspect that it will come down to who really is calling the shots behind the scenes moving forwards, if we end up with an Eddie Howe then you know it's Kenwright but if we manage to attract a Bielsa or Emery then maybe just maybe Moshiri is stepping up and there's hope for us yet.

'The Goldilocks Option' that's the key – Not too much Moyes, not too much Martinez, but just right.

Many won't but I'd love Moyes back and he would have us way up there with this squad.

I know it may be a bit off the wall but I would go for Dennis Bergkamp. He knows the Premier League well, is a big enough name to attract the best players available to us, has surely served his apprenticeship at Ajax under De Boer, he has managed the Dutch Under-21 side and he speaks fluent English.

He always had a nasty side as a player, is not a fool, is a student of the game and is a winner. His serious fear of flying may be an issue but not for at least a couple of years.

Who else do we think is in the 'No fuckin way' category?

I think there are 2 possible targets who I believe would come to Everton. The first is Koeman has had a year in the Premier League and I believe would do a good job. The other plus for him is that his reputation as a player might persuade some players who might not have chosen us to come here.

My second choice would be Mark Hughes, he has transformed the way Stoke play, and his buys on a smaller budget have been very good. I think when he bid for Shaquiri most of us thought he won't go to Stoke.

I suppose it depends upon how you define success. However, I struggle to see how any definition can have Moyes above Royle – unless your primary criterion is longevity.

They're well backed, nice modern stadium, quality players all over the pitch and doing much better than we are in the Premier League.

For Evertonians to believe that ours was always the glory is a misrepresentation of our modern history -– proud as it is due to the feats of Howard Kendall and 'Happy Harry'!

(I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with Dyche.)

Last week, we were talking of players we had to sign to replace Lukaku and the list resembled a fantasy team; this week, we're doing the same with managers.

I know he made the infamous "small club" remark about us but isn't he more plausible than a lot of the names being suggested?

I was privileged to be in Warsaw to watch HIS team win the second Europa League trophy - standout players were Ever Banega (MotM) and Carlos Bacca both of whom I believe were signed by him. Team played great football and showed great fight after going a goal down against a team renowned for "parking the bus" once in front. He currently has a 1.81 win % in La Liga. Taken together, that's all good enough for me.

I wouldn't entirely dismiss your Bergkamp preference, however he too has never managed in Premier League and indeed has never managed at club level – very like Colin Harvey (also a great former player with intimate knowledge of English top flight) who was a great assistant to Howard Kendall but couldn't cut it as manager. If Dutch is the way to go, why not de Boer with Bergkamp as assistant?

Some may not like, but I still believe he might be a much better option than a Hughes or a Howe.

We have had players from the other lot but never a manager... a lot of water has gone under the bridge, but ask yourself this, is he better than Martinez? Is he better than Moyes? Is he more likely to come than others?

For some its unthinkable, for others it makes sense.. I think we could do a lot worse... like keeping what we have.

Robin, I believe Kenwright did have a wider strategy in mind when he hired Martinez who had won the FA Cup with a team much worse than ours, and who promised him Champions League footy.

You're right but I prefer 'many' rather than 'we.'

Until someone actually says something, or someone actually leaves or arrives, I'm certainly not tying myself in knots and raging about the fact that my own wishful thinking and fantasy scenario isn't coming true.

He stated that with the new TV deal it was now a time for the so called big 4 or 5 to accept that a lot of clubs could develop and challenge for the title.

In yesterday's papers, Martinez was quoted "I would die to get this club to winning ways". Sorry, but that's like Cameron expecting us to believe we are all in this together.

You don't need to do anything so drastic, Roberto, just resign please.

His La Liga win% is in fact 49.3% – not bad!

You are taking the piss, aren't you, by trying to align Moyes's 'achievements' with that of Catterick and Kendall Mk 1? They won those shiny cups and trophies we crave, remember? Plus the football we played was exciting and successful in comparison to the turgid sludge offered up by Moyes.

Now Phil it wasn't always glory under Catterick or Kendall Mk 1 but there were plenty of glory days; I was there... and I suspect you were too

As much as I hate to say it, Rafa Benitez possibly represents the safest of unsafe bets. A proven manager, a winner and someone who would take the job today if it was offered. But, and it is a big 'but,' given what he has said about Everton in the past, would we accept him in the job?

Mind you, Moyes more or less agreed with Rafa's 'small club' statement when he made his 'knife to a gunfight' remark.

I kind of think the point is though that those we want won't come and those who will come we don't want. Stan Collymore on Talksport at the weekend was saying that he had heard that De Boer had been spoken to and, as you say, he and Bergkamp would be an excellent idea.

@Eric (23) – I believe that Kenwright essentially decided on Martinez after Wigan beat us at Goodison in the cup. That's not a strategy, and in fact I think it likely undermined any motivation to conduct a wider search.

I notice that the comments are largely "we should/shouldn't hire x". To reiterate, any managerial preference is purely subjective.

What we can demand that is objective is a clear strategy, a considered search, and a decision based on solid criteria rather than flavor of the month or memories of a particularly good game against us.

(Of course, all predicated on Martinez leaving, which isn't that sure unless/until we get battered in the semi final.)

"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know."

As you say, his record at Spartak wasn't great but in his defence it lasted for only 26 games - even so he managed 1.5 points per game which right now (not in the future though!) I'd be delighted with!

Incidentally in his 220 games at Valencia (immediately prior to his stint at Spartak) he clocked up 1.72 points per game – not too shabby! Still,we all have our own opinions but at least we're in full agreement over the De Boer/Bergkamp combo!

Picking a good manager is really hard to do, simply because so few teams can win a cup every year.

Who do we want, and even more importantly, what do we want? A mixture of Moyes and Martinez, maybe?

“As a manager you always concentrate on what you can affect, and that is why it is such a significant period for us because we can affect many things from now until the end of the season.”.....

"To have a long-term role, you have to be very consistent as a manager. I wouldn't say I've done anything different in the last seven seasons at this level."

Isn't that the real problem though – never having done anything different in the last seven seasons at this level?

Martinez started well and getting Lukaku was a masterstroke, but he never learned from his mistakes or grew as a manager. He also never formed a partnership with his Number 2... maybe he picked the wrong Number 2.

What I believe we should be looking at is a management team to take the club forward. Kendal & Harvey together where fantastic, apart they where awful .

At work I always looked for a Number 2 that had strengths in the areas I was weak. Maybe Moyes and Martinez would have worked well, although I think their stubbornness would have got in the way.

We will get a Moyes like appointment ie from lower division or a lower division overseas manager. Can we really hope for anything else?

I think he would come here, for the simple reason that Southampton have never shown any real intent to spend money and build on what they have got. He also only has 1 year left on his contract.

If we got him, it would be a high profile appointment which the world's press would all report. He also has the potential to be a top manager at Barcelona or somewhere. If he could give us 4/5 years before he eventually gets a top job elsewhere, I would accept that. He would clearly be an upgrade on Martinez, certainly in terms of experience and on-field organisation.

It really irks me the way fans downplay the club and our achievements and standing in the game you would think it was Doncaster Rovers we supported not Everton.

If Newcastle can attract Benitez who started the season at Real Madrid when they are facing relegation

If Southampton can get Koeman despite selling half their team and being in turmoil then why on earth cant we appoint a proven experienced trophy winning manager like they did.

Nearly 12,500 fans have voted. A massive 84% want Martinez gone. A huge majority.

Some may not like this analogy but if say you were the owner of a popular restaurant and you were given information that 84% of your "clientele" didn't like the food the chef was cooking, what would you do?

Now I know TW doesn't represent all Everton fans but it's a good barometer for the current groundswell of opinion I feel.

Regarding people fantasizing with the current situation it's only human nature to want to look forward with hope.(or desperation!)

The '90s had two hairy years as every blue of a certain age knows but we also won the cup and had the likes of Speed, Limpar, Kanchelskis, Southall, Dacourt, Ferguson (in his prime), amongst others, gracing Goodison Park at one time or another. It may just be that I'm older or football has changed but that decade was a lot more exciting than the last 10 years, especially the last 2-3 snore years under Moyes (who was just running his contract down) and this season and last under Martinez.

The main problem for me now is that Goodison Park has become far too cosy a seat for whichever manager is in the dug out. Moyes was given way too long and really should have left at least 3 years before he did. Kenwright gave him far too long a contract in 2008 (nevermind the £4m/year!)

All managers should be given enough time to put their ideas in place and get the players in that they want. However, 3 years (if not 2) is enough time to see if the manager has what it takes. That should also be the max length of any contract given to a new man coming in (it can obviously be extended if the guy is doing a decent job – just not after 1 year like in Martinez's case!).

There is no 'be careful what you wish for' as far as Martinez is concerned, we will be in a relegation fight next season if we still have him in charge come August.

As to the OP – any half decent guy who has managed at the top and won something. There will be a long list of applicants for the job.

I agree wholeheartedly with the shout for Koeman but I would like to suggest our defence needs a little more than a "tweak" – it needs completely restructuring!!

I really like the shout for De Boer/Bergkamp – but Koeman first up for me.

I don't even think Kenwright would have the temerity to employ that buffoon. Having said all that, it's nice to see the great job he's doing at Sid James Park.... Not!!!

For me it's not about 'liking' the analogy, it's about whether it works or not.

An imo it doesn't, for the following reason.

When it comes to restaurants, there are loads of them to choose from.

Don't like that shitty one?

No problem, try another - it's not like this restaurant is a massive part of your life (and has been since you were a kid).

But as all clubs know, their supporters will never say 'Well in that case, we'll take us custom elsewhere' (folds arms, haughtily sniffs Ena Sharples-style)

And because of this, just about every 'well it's just like any other business' argument I've ever heard has made me think 'that's exactly what it isn't like.'

"Everton manager Roberto Martinez is about to speak to the media to preview his side's Premier League game with Crystal Palace on Wednesday. We'll bring you all the best lines in a jiffy..."

Criteria for new manager... Ensure your press image does not deteriorate to the point that journalists are waiting on your lines like for a stand-up comedian!

On the plus side not sure he can do worse than Kenwright did with Martinez. (He obviously didn't have Walter Smith to advise him on that one!)

I'd guess that the fat waiter is on a wage that makes Moye's golden deal with us pale into insignificance and in these situations money always makes a difference.

I'd also suggest that there's an attitude difference between clubs like Newcastle, Liverpool, Spurs and ourselves, we seem to have been typecast as the plucky overachievers quite literally living in the past (Goodison) while they all have these delusions of grandeur which allows them to seemingly miraculously attract big name players and managers every season despite not winning much recently.

But of course they can't do that without the bankrolling (see my first point). It's those delusions of grandeur that make them so easy to dislike as a neutral

We also have huge problems at board level and while the investment is most welcome its still going to be Kenwright pulling the strings and doing the hiring and firing and Martinez is his big buddy buddy as we know so firstly I cant see him getting rid of Martinez. But even if he does for the reasons I've said we wont get any of the current Premier League managers, now then that leaves Pelligrini (not convinced by him at all); Mourinho no chance.

I hope I'm wrong but we will see if and when the time comes that we are looking for a new manager. Don't forget that Martinez has a plan he wants to see through and Billy boy shares that plan whatever it may be. It's just bloody heartbreaking to be a blue at the moment.

I don't understand the whole "these managers are out of our league" theme. When you are looking for a job, you would send your resume everywhere, from the most likely jobs you would get to the least likely dream jobs. And this cuts both ways in the job market. Why would looking for a manager be THAT different? Especially with the vague criteria of "having a long term plan"?

Sure, Koeman, Pochettino, Simeone and Emery might be at clubs a cut above us at the moment, but who knows if they would consider us if we don't try? Pochettino and Simeone are the ones I agree are difficult, but as Klopp was just as difficult to pry at BVB a few years ago, things can change drastically.

Although arguably worth it if he keeps them in the Premier League...

I'm not advocating taking our custom elsewhere I just feel those at the top should respect the fans more than they do rather than sit in their ivory tower oblivious.

How much more unrest, petitioning, polling and banner waving is it going to take to get some sort of/any response from them? The dithering at board level smacks of ameteurism and ignorance.

Would take Wijnaldem off them if/when they do go down.

Glad about this. My sentiments precisely. With his previous it just wouldn't work. He'd have to win more trophies than any other manager to clear the slate.

Bet he makes a mean paella though.

He has done a good job with Dynamo Kiev since he took over, plays a decent style of football and has recently said in an interview he wants to manage in England. With our new owner's links to Russia, he's a decent option.

Having seen the list of hopeful managers on this thread amongst other threads too, I was wondering what you guys thought of Klinsman as our manager?

In the event Martinez remains as manager, he needs to find that spark that has fizzled out this season, find the buzz that was there in his first season. He also needs to explore different formations that play to certain player's strengths. If we look at Leicester City, Ranieri has simply played in form players in their best positions and that has contributed to their impressive season.

Any manager also needs to start looking at fringe players and making tough decisions. Players like Hibbert and Pienaar have been fantastic servants to the club, but they have spent a lot of time injured. Players like Osman and Gibson, who haven't been injured as much, yet don't get games. We also have to consider certain positions (leftback) we have Baines, Galloway and even Oviedo can play there and we will see the return of Garbutt. Yet we don't have an abundance of options for right-back or left-wing.

We currently have a 㾹.5m striker who isn't getting any real game time, Kone is not an attacking player anymore. We have a young player joining us from Grasshoppers and McAleny, Rodriguez, Henen... but will these guys get any first team action? I mean IF Lukaku leaves, we have no idea if Niasse is an adequate replacement and we all know Kone is definitely not. The current formation is so rigid, no other striker can play in a natural striker's position... it's either Lukaku or no one.

Before we look at other managerial options, we have to hope Martinez starts to look at facts and performance of certain individuals. He brought Kone, Alcaraz and McCarthy with him from Wigan, Alcaraz was pants and subsequently shown the door. Yet you can argue Kone's attacking ability is no better than Alcaraz's defensive ability. McCarthy is a decent player, but the team copes without his presence. We miss the likes of Barry, Jagielka, Lukaku, Coleman and others like Deulofeu, Lennon, Funes Mori, Barkley make a difference when they play. When Besic is in form, he is more effective in that position than McCarthy, yet McCarthy plays pretty much every game.

It seems Martinez picks the squad based on hope and faith, rather than picking players who make a difference, players who perform well when they are in their best position. Whether he stays or a new manager comes in – the coaching staff needs a reshuffle and they need to start selecting a starting XI that earns a place in the squad.

My first choice when Martinez was hired and who has remained my Number 1 choice is Micheal Laudrup. Why? He is a winner, he can man manage and he plays attacking attractive football that would suit our squad, not this gung ho "need to score 4 or 5 to win a game" nonsense. What he did with Swansea was one of the biggest achievements in Premier League history.

Second choice is Ronald De Boer for all the same reasons. His ability to develop young talent is excellent.

To give Martinez two seasons grace and see no improvement is beyond a disgrace. The past two seasons can be summarised by the famous quote -"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

It's a gamble who ever they get. Pelligrini would be OK but probably going to Valencia.

RM seems like a nice fella, but what do nice guys win? When RM does go I hope it's for somebody who we have checked thoroughly and not a knee jerk appointment. It needs to be a younger guy that is visionary and understands the club's history & the importance of the fans. A coach that can play different systems in an instant encourage youth players but be utterly ruthless for the good of the club.

If a club is to be successful in the Premier League it has to have a great goalie and two very good centre backs then you have a solid basis to build your team on. Being able to switch from a back 4 to a 3, switch from a lone striker to 2 or even 3 up front and players covering for each other are all things required.

We have some really good players and a pile of deadwood. Get rid of Hibbert, Pienaar, Gibson, Howard, even Osman and bring some younger players in with potential. The Bundesliga is a great place to shop, players who come from there tend to hit the ground running & have a good attitude.