The Misfit?

I worry about youngsters at our club. I worry about the attitude of a growing number of Evertonians towards them. Not just Lookman, all of them. There`s something very wrong.

Players like Barkley were hounded from the get-go by a certain section. Same with Rodwell. Youngsters like Davies, Kenny, Calvert-Lewin and Lookman himself, would have to be completely Mutton not to hear the groans, the gripes and the bitching from the stands. No concessions are made for their age. You don't even have to leave these pages to see how some treat young players. They don't just crticise them, they batter them.... and they keep on battering them. How the fuck can we expect these players to realise their potential in this environment? How can they grow when they are terrified to make a mistake? How can managers give them a proper run when they are having their confidence shredded?

I don't blame Lookman for wanting out... why would any youngster want to stay here? Those who are not top notch are generally hounded into oblivion. Those who are good enough but don't attract offers (Osman and Hibbert) pay for it for the rest of their careers.

Those who are top class can't get out of the place quick enough... How can we blame managers when this happens no matter who is in charge?

Lookman is just the latest youngster to want away. There has been a steady stream of them... Can anybody remember the last young Everton player who was offered a move elsewhere and turned it down? Most of them dive at the chance to leave.

There must be a reason why he isn't being given a chance. Apart from the Theo Walcott reason, that is.

Sell him at 100% profit and get someone better.

Nonetheless, there's no disputing that something has gone wrong. Maybe his first three managers didn't know how to use the young man, but Silva certainly does, and I think it's his comments about Lookman's consistency that are the most telling.

Whatever the reason he couldn't break in ahead of Theo -- and it's certainly not their respective quality -- Silva obviously saw something over many months that kept it from happening. We may never find out what it was. Or we may find out the hard way if he heads to one of the southern clubs and returns to dance through our defense as we saw him do (far too rarely) for us.

I will be disappointed when he departs.

I'm not aware of a certain section of fans hounding Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley from the 'get go'. What I will say is that the inconsistency of Ross Barkley didn't help his cause.

I have attended Goodison Park for over 70 years and I haven't seen a more frustrating player than Ross Barkley... he replaced Peter Beagrie in that category.

It may well be that there are some like myself, who may express cries of frustration, which can be construed as criticism (what we used to call 'barracking'). I wish to say right now that I do not boo opposition players, and I certainly do not boo Everton players.

Everton is a tough club for a kid because it is a massive club but, for the last 30 years, hasn't been that good. So people expect a lot, even though the team is mediocre.

In contrast, a team like Bournemouth were crap for the last 100 years so the expectations are low. Any kid can come in there without being unfavourably compared to Rooney or Sheedy.

At the other end of the spectrum, good (massive) clubs carry kids along. For example, Mark Robins, Luke Chadwick, Federico Macheda, Blackwell, etc all had decent spells in the Man Utd first team. They all seemed good enough at the time but have since gone on to have second-rate careers. Obviously, you look better when Giggs, Scholes, etc are giving you inch-perfect passes, and you've world stars covering your miss steps.

Great talent, great in patches, but never two games on the run, and I'm not sure the lad works hard enough to ever reach his full potential, but that's only something we will find out in the future.

I agree, some fans hounded Barkley, but the way he responded to the crowd after they had backed him all the way, when he scored at home to Burnley, then I'm not sure it was the crowd that made Ross want to leave Everton!

Regarding Lookman, that's four managers that won't play him. That says something for me. Just not sure whether that's about him or us. Wouldn't surprise me if he's a success wherever he goes. I'll always respect him for sticking his fingers up to Brexit Allardyce, going to Germany and doing better with the nasty foreigners than the league he'd already played in.

We have to get rid now and not buy based on casino odds. Lookman, like Bernard, is a massive "sell" for a club with ambition. Bournemouth is in the position we were in then.To be fair, we should help them see contracts out and get good moves or loan positions. The mistake was ours, not theirs.

Despite my remarks on Ross Barkley, I do not demand perfection from players they are not robots, but the frustration when you know that a player has the ability but doesn't apply himself, obviously can be misconstrued.

Why wouldn't he be pissed off of week after week watching Walcott play crap while he's lucky if he even makes the bench. Silva seems to be a decent manager but he sometimes infuriates with his team selections. I'm hoping he will stay and get more opportunities next season.

Is it just our fans who behave like this, Darren?

We're a club that can't move forward while we sell our best players or our best players are loanees.

I was lucky enough to be at the Easter Sunday thumping of Man Utd. There were two strikers on the pitch. One ran himself into the ground, caused mayhem and looked like a top player. The other was Lukaku.

This is a tough crowd to satisfy.

However, if he is sold please let it be to RB Leipzig.

If he were to go to Southampton or Bournemouth or any other southern EPL team, he will come back and haunt us, and show us what we let go.

When Jack Rodwell raced through to score the final goal against Man United at Goodison all those years ago, I was convinced we had the 'complete' midfielder on our hands.

Latterly, after Ross Barkley's 40-yard solo goal against Newcastle at St James Park a few years ago, I believed we had witnessed the birth of a real talent, as well as a home-grown one.

All young players have one consistency and that's their inconsistency!!

Lookman must be pretty pissed off in all fairness, I can't recall any of the past two Everton managers giving him a run of half-a-dozen consecutive games to try and cement a place in the side. For my money, he's one of the few Everton players who can actually run at defenders with real pace and cause problems by his unpredictability.

I know his critics will point to the fact 'he doesn't do it often enough', but neither does Walcott, yet the manager clearly trusts/prefers him to Lookman.

I still think he will mature into a really outstanding player, best of luck to him if he goes. Ironically, he will be one of the few 'fringe' players who will probably command a decent fee.

If we sell him for £20M, we will have to go out and try and get a replacement for probably the same amount. Wilson from the shite would do me.

When they first break into the team, there is no expectation and they play with freedom; there is a short grace period where the crowd are not on their backs and they're willing to try things and play their natural game. Then the first bad patch comes, which always will, and instead of encouragement, they hear groans and abuse. They then don't want to try anything different in case they lose the ball and we end up with players who retreat into their shells with sideways safe passes instead of the exciting, care-free attitude they have when they first break in.

Surely most fans should be able to see the difference a supportive crowd can make since they introduced the sirens. A crowd behind us and fired up, and a series of excellent performances... surely not a spurious correlation.

Anyone who counts that fat, gravy-drinking, bung-taking dinosaur as a manager doesn't understand Everton.

That's Kenny, Lookman, Davies, Holgate, Dowell. Unless they are used as subs with regular 20 minute game time they won't progress and will start to sulk and go backwards. They need to play. It will continue to get harder to break into the first team because we will continue to spend money and expect those players to play before the younger players.

We will be in danger of going back to the Koeman days of a big mush of players, a bottleneck. We have some interesting younger players in the U23s and U18s so I hope the proper thought goes into their progression.

I think good management is essential but it is not much different than working for an overly tough boss in an office, factory or any other place of employment. I think supportive older members of a team can help younger plays to develop. Unfortunately, there will always be older players who are having a rough time getting in the starting team, who actually resent the challenges of younger or new players.

I personally do not like to see young players hassled or booed but there are 40,000 people all who have different points of view. These young players have to become hardened to the difficulties of being a professional footballer. This must be pointed out to them early in their careers. They are not going to be molly coddled. It can be a tough life and that is why so many players move from one team to another. However, if they are successful, they will be paid far more than any of their friends. Support is essential but criticism is a part of life. Lookman needs to stop sulking, smile now and again, and accept that the lumps that come along are part of life.

"Always look on the bright side of life", etc etc etc, as it's been for decades for us Toffees whilst you-know-who has had any sort of hand in our, erm, "progression".

I really can't see how our season would have been any worse if Lookman had been given the same gametime as both Bernard and Walcott. The former showed great inconsistency at the start, but settled with time but still lacked end product. The latter stank the place out all season.

Yet Lookman got 10 mins here and there...

Hibbert and Osman aside, who has had any sort of meaningful career in our first team having graduated the academy? It's a poor record as far as I'm concerned.

Our academy seems to be an enterprise intended to produce workman-like troupers for lesser clubs to sign for a £million or two, end of. Vivacity seems to be anathema to it, and as far as I can see Lookman has exciting vivacity.

Can Silva utilise/refine it though?

The live forum is rife with it and support is far from what some offer, but call themselves supporters. It is OK questioning a players level/ability, but the level of vitriol and vilification is unnecessary and does nothing but create negativity.

There are talks about Deulofeu being worth £30-40m now and I could see that being the case with Lookman too in a few years time.

Will be sad to see him leave this summer if that happens.

The intolerance of youngsters goes back way before Rooney. I saw my first game in 1963 and there is a long list of concerted abuse of young players.

Joe Royle, Colin Harvey (the best we have ever produced), Jimmy Husband, Alan Whittle, Mick Lyons, Ronnie Goodlass, Gary Jones – the list is endless.

Add the young players bought in – Adrian Heath took terrible abuse at first, Alan Harper, Ratters, Sharp, Jim Pearson. I even remember the greatest – Alan Ball – taking dog's abuse from the Main Stand!

It's not only our own crowd but it's only our own crowd that concerns me. There has always been a lack of encouragement towards young players. When they inevitably make a mistake, they need the crowd behind them, not abusing them.

If we watch our kids or grandkids playing, do we call them abusive names? I do hope not! Good parents or grandparents will tell them to forget it and keep trying hard and to dismiss this because the young players earn big money is pure nonsense. These are no more than kids as you can see if you bump into them off the pitch. Thousands of men calling them all sorts for a stray pass is intimidating and will destroy confidence.

People need to take a good look at themselves.

Uruguay is a bit excessive, but you made me laugh. 😀

As long as it's not a Premier League team, I'm not overly bothered where he goes.

I also can't see us getting the £20m we were offered in January.

Better still, sell Walcott and keep Lookman.

Let's have it right, when Lookman comes on, the ground is buzzing. If he was given a decent run in the team,, he would be a real threat for us. I just can't see why he isn't being used, especially the last few games when Europa League qualification had gone. Instead, we played the likes of Walcott and Tosun who are clearly never going to take the club up a level.

I genuinely believe we're about to make some big mistakes this pre-season, and it's very short-sighted. I understand that contracts are running down fast but, if lads were given more chances, they may be more inclined to extend their deals without being first choice, just like Davies did recently.

For me, Lookman went to Germany to prove himself; he did that, he should have been brought home and used much more to continue his development.

Also, if he wasn't ever going to play, why didn't we accept the £25m for him and spend it on a player who would get a game in our first 11?

That is why I expect the majority of our purchases this summer to come from Europe or South America. Or possibly the Championship.

Now, Tom Davies could do no wrong. Then his second season and he replaced Barkley as enemy number one. He was a 19-year-old kid! It's carried on this season and he's still only a kid, he tries his very best and you can't ask more than that. I think he's going to be a top-class player, a very top class player, but he will need to be mentally strong for the boo boys not to derail him.

Our “fans” need to lay off the kids and give them encouragement. It's been going on for years. To go back to Rodwell, we sold him to Man City as an England international for a good price, however, if you listened to the guys near me, he wasn't good enough for Tranmere!

On to Lookman. I've no idea about his attitude. I can see his skills and he has a lot to offer, immense potential. All I wonder is why Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce and now Silva have not put their faith in him. There's a pattern here and it must be more than he doesn't fit a manager's style.

It is difficult enough for a youngster to be part of a well-functioning team in the Premier League, but at least under these circumstances they have maximum chance to shine and enjoy their game. But when the team is not functioning well, it must be especially hard for the youngsters. The expectation on them to perform is often completely out-of-kilter with the reality of how well the team is functioning as a unit.

In these respects, it would be very interesting to see how Lookman could perform if he were given more playing time in a well-functioning Everton team. He has had some games like this, but it would be interesting to see how he could develop with more extended involvement.

I think Silva has made a powerful point that Lookman is part of our future. However, and noting Darren's comments @1, it might be that he's simply had enough of Everton.

When he gets the ball he wants to attack, he is seeking the killer pass or will try to beat a man to make space for a shot or an assist.

I am sure it is he defensive game that is costing him. He has not yet got the defensive tenacity of Bernard to compliment his offensive game.Bernard has developed a single minded drive to defend and get back behind the ball to press upon attacks breaking down. Lookman has less of it. I don't think he has the same positional discipline either. It is possibly this why Silva favours others.

But he is young, these things can develop over the next couple of seasons. It is a sad day when a player is exciting to watch maybe sold.

Whilst he is too good to be sold, he is too good to be wasted. I want to see him develop. If we are not going to play him Lyndon's sentiment is right, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.

Does he need a run to develop or a move to a different system, I don't know. Hope he goes on to great things for us but unfortunately I currently don't see it working out for him at Everton.

Youth talent gets a harder time from fans. I don't know if that's an Everton thing, could be our desperation for a superstar. Somebody to pull the sword from a stone and restore us to glory.

In general (i.e. apply this to politics or anything else people spray saliva about in a pub or on the internet), "debate" polarises opinion until a player is not merely average to alright on his day but actually the "WORST PLAYER IN HISTORY OF SPORT" and everybody who disagrees is a simpering moron.

Without repeating what has been said above, my take is he is a young upstart who probably is visibly grumpy at the fact he is not being chosen. I would be too seeing the absolute tosh we were playing in a period where he couldn't get a game. Bernard, Richarlison and Walcott all completely useless for a period yet he continues to sit there, after I felt he was excellent in the games he had come on in the start of the season. His decision making and close control possession I felt was better than any of those 3 big names. He came back a new player and should have got a lot of game time.

If he is to sit on the bench, I would rather we sell him and watch him score goals and create assists for other teams than live with the frustration of watching our wingers create virtually nothing while he watches from the sidelines again.

We need better options than Lookman and Walcott. Richarlison and Bernard have set the benchmark — two more like that please!

Darren # 1 is also spot on about the shameful abuse our young players sometimes get. It destroys the player's confidence, undermines the team and threatens to throw the huge investment in the Academy down the drain.

For those who think Lookman will be a sure-fire success at Bournemouth it might be useful to consider Jordan Ibe who is apparently now up for sale having failed to do anything since his move from the RS.

I think one of the issues Lookman has faced at Everton is that he isn’t a natural wide man. He prefers to receive the ball in central areas and run at defences. That is how he has scored many of his goals in age group football for club and country. The problem is that Silva’s formation for the majority of last season, with Sigurdsson operating in the middle, does not have room for Lookman to do that. To an extent the same issue applies to Walcott.

Another issue is that for whatever reason Lookman has not been able to form a partnership on the pitch. Bernard’s form improved as he and Digne got to know each other’s game. By the end of the season they were linking up well against decent teams both home and away. Great teams have great partnerships. We do not have enough of them yet.

Silva obviously has issues with Lookman – otherwise, he would play him more often. Whether that is his defensive deficiencies or something else, we may probably never know; however, whatever the reason – don't blame the fans. I'm sick and tired of the blame game on the fans. Long-suffering fans I might add.

For a start, I haven't seen or heard any kind of abuse towards Lookman. Whenever he has come on, everybody gives him a great reception. Contrary to popular belief, we actually want all the players – not just the youngsters – to be a success.

Several players have been highlighted, not least, Ross Barkley. Now Barkley had/has all the tools to be a top quality midfielder. The problem he had at Everton was that he coasted through a lot of games. Evertonians forgive a lot of issues with players but a lack of effort is not forgivable and Barkley played a lot of games for Everton putting in minimum effort. He was also afforded a lot of time before the crowd got fed up. He was overweight, couldn't last 45 minutes let alone 90 without blowing like a 40-a-day man. Lukaku also fell into that bracket too. Now there were a myriad of reasons that happened. Bad coaching, poor application, injuries, lack of heart, whatever the reason it's not the fault of the fans.

It's also interesting that Alan Ball has been flagged up for getting abuse. Whilst this is before my time, it's also worth noting that Alan Ball commented on this, saying that Evertonians were well within their right to complain as he hadn't reached his normal standards. A proper pro who knew when his form and effort had dipped.

Players need to man up at times. A lot of the players mentioned, like Sharp, Harper, Heath, Ball, Harvey etc upped their game and never looked back and none have bad words to say about Everton. The ones that left, with the exception of Rooney and Stones – who can't get into the starting 11 at Man City at the moment – have hardly set the world on fire. Barkley treading water in an average Chelsea side, Lukaku getting dog's life through his general malaise at what constitutes as football, Rodwell fell down the leagues, and Lookman being touted for Bournemouth of all places. If you had to rely on just the opinions of TW, you'd think next stop would be Madrid or Barca.

All is not great at Everton at the moment through a series of bad management and appointments over the last few years and everyone will have different opinions on players. However, we have a great fan base and a good reputation of blooding young players. Some will make it; others won't. The likes of Calvert-Lewin and Davies have had a hard time, worked hard and have come back better and are an asset to the club. If players are going to sulk and demand a move then we are better off without them. We want players all pulling in the same direction and management will decide who goes or stays.

As for the fans, we want the absolute best for Everton Football Club, so don't blame us when players can't achieve the level expected of them. Form can come and go but maximum effort should be a given every game. Players who think they can coast through games just have a reminder that this is Everton and this is not tolerated. Just because certain managers allowed it doesn't mean the fans do. It's up to us to remind the club of the high expectations we have.

I don't sit in the Park End, I sit in The Upper Bullens, but I don't recall Barkley getting booed when he was a young kid, or even in his last two seasons here when he was 22 and 23. He certainly got plenty of stick in the last two years because, once he lost the ball (which was quite often), he made little attempt to win it back, if any.

Ross was his own worst enemy, he made very little progress in his final years here and doesn't seem to have improved at Chelsea, even if he has been recalled by England. He still looks the same lost player to me.

End of the day we just have to trust in Silva and Brands doing the right thing for the club when dealing with any player.

Hi Dave [31] I have [since 1948,] either stood or sat in every section of Goodison Park, and have to regard myself as extremely fortunate to have missed the abuse meted out to the individuals you quoted. The only concerted dissatisfaction was in the late 40s early 50s, when the slow handclap was the way home supporters showed their displeasure, I'm sure that Dave Abrahams will back me up in that matter.

Goodison is not just a bear pit for opposition players even Reid got it in the neck near the end of his career. Turn up to support the team and the players in it - abuse of our own plays into the oppositions hands. The enemy is the other team not EVERTON FC

Lookman should go out on loan to Southampton where he will play. Its a win win for EFC - if as a lot of us suspect it goes well his value will rise yet again and he gains more experience.

We seem to want to discard players way too early because they're not the finished article ‘right now'. Young players will often be more inconsistent and make more mistakes, they may even be less mentally ‘at it'. Either you accept that, or you have a team of only 25- to 30-year-olds.

Lookman's situation reminds me a little of Both can look really special, but also be inconsistent. Until we're in Man City's position, we're not going to have young players who produce every week, and if we do, they'll get bought by someone richer and in the Champions League.

We're going to improve by gradually supporting the young players to improve, mature and become more consistent, not by finding replacements who are somehow already good enough for the top 6, but also completely unwanted by the top 6 - those guys are simply not out there.

So when you get a run like we had and a “striker” like Calvert-Lewin lacking goals, don't jump down his throat. We cannot underestimate what he adds to the team. And the players around him. We saw a team taking a gun to a gunfight. Finally. So let's celebrate that for a little while.

I'm in 2 minds as to whether we sell him. He's an option on either wing or as a second striker but is it all just a case of player and club not fitting.

I believe we have responsibilities as well as rights, and that our responsibility as supporters is to support the players, unless there is clear evidence that a player is shirking, something which I've never seen in 58 years of supporting Everton. In my opinion, those responsibilities are much greater than our perceived right to barrack a player just because we've paid an entry fee to the match.

I believe Alan Ball was wrong to accept the criticism, because his drop in form was beyond his control, and he always tried hard to perform well.

I didn't care either because Bally was well out of order, just lost it completely over something minor. I loved him but that game he needed a good bollocking, and Catterick would have given it, even though we won.

Trust me it happened! Specifically in the main stand row 3 in what was the 500 club for most of them, but Heath was Lower Bullens against Coventry around 1982 when Higgins scored two identical headers in a 3-2 win. The abuse aimed at Heath was truly vile. Harvey was a whipping boy until 1967 when he started to blossom under Ball's influence.

I appreciate that the fan pays his money and is entitled to show his feelings and express dissatisfaction but the point is that it is hardly likely to be a positive influence on a young player trying to learn his trade.

Now you mention Kendall, he got the same kind of barracking when he suffered a very rare and uncharacteristic loss of form not long before we sold him (and Archie Styles) to Birmingham in exchange for Latchford.

For me, Vlasic, Lookman, DCL, and Davies should all have big roles in the first team next season, and hopefully Henry too, should he attain a work-permit.

Dave @59, I wonder if you can help me out with something I'm sure I witnessed during that Coventry game. I was in the Paddock that day and was only small for my young years, but I reckon Southall made a save during that game that was as good as I've ever seen.

It was in the Park End goal, and he was at his near post when the cross came over, but still managed to get across his goal and push out the header from just inside the far post. It was that good I was surprised the crowd never celebrated like we'd scored a goal, or maybe I was just seeing things!?

Tommy Wright
Howard Kendall
Colin Harvey
Joe Royle
Jimmy Husband
Terry Darracott
Mick Lyons
Henry Newton
Keith Newton
Adrian Heath
Dave Watson

As I say, top of my head and without too much thought. In my view, it's always been part of the culture at Everton, more so than with our friends across the park, particularly as far as local lads are concerned.

We tend to set high and sometimes unrealistic standards of others, but sometimes forget to set them for ourselves.

I was pointing out that Bally got barracked by me for one game, maybe some of the other players only got booed/ barracked once, Adrian Heath for instance was getting a bit of stick in one game versus Man City, he then scored in The Street End off a rebound and gave the supporters “the two fingers” sign; he got a lot more stick after that.

Regarding Howard Kendall, a great player, he took quite a bit of time to settle at Everton. His first game, a 1-0 home defeat to Southampton (?) had a lot of us wondering why we paid such a lot of money for him... He certainly let us know why with years of undoubted quality, recognised by everyone, erm except whoever picked the England teams over quite a few years.

For example, Lookman is a lad who seems decent but may just be struggling to settle. Barkley was a lad who had equal potential and was settled but let his fame and fortune change him from quiet lad knocking about L1 to getting trouble chasing other lad's birds.

Like I said, it's all opinions and hearsay but Lookman is different from Barkley and may leave Everton for different reasons.

I believe it's the nature of football supporters to praise players that they like, a misplaced pass is forgiven with an "He meant well" comment, whereas a similar pass by a less popular player is greeted with derision. I still maintain that I have never heard the mass booing of any individual, and pray that I never will.

Once again I'll stress that I'm not saying that booing players hasn't happened, but I can't recall it happening in the way some describe. I also accept that the fact I can't recall it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Watching the lead up to Walcott’s goal against Spurs he received the ball surrounded by 4 Spurs players. He drew them all to him with the faintest of movements leaving Sigurdsson unmarked to receive the pass and play Walcott in.

That is raw natural talent that you cannot coach into a player. He came into the professional leagues late but I suspect that someday, somewhere this young man is going to be hailed as a great player.

I've seen dozens of referees getting mass booing, and plenty of opposition players I honestly can't recall any. Everton players getting the same treatment, I've never booed any Everton player, although I left as soon as the referee blew the final whistle at Moyes's last game as manager, I'd have booed that bastard that day.

I just recall being annoyed every time it happened, and it just seemed like total stupidity to barrack players who were giving their best. I myself have got frustrated with players including Ball after Mexico, but never dreamed of shouting negatives at them.

By the way, I remember that first Kendall game at Goodison. He missed a sitter, blasting the ball over the bar. He certainly made up for it though!

Our responsibility is to support and back younger players who are developing their game and their confidence, not criticise them to the point where their game suffers – confidence is a brittle thing, especially in the young.

Just one to add in terms of players were copped abuse from the crowd. Peter Reid towards the end of his career with us got it from sections of the crowd at matches I attended. Remember thinking how disgusting that was after everything he'd given to the club!

I think you are moving the goal post a little here John. You were the one who introduced "booing" to the debate.

You may have been fortunate enough to not hear the howls of derision which were directed at Barkley and Rodwell from EVERY stand from a worryingly large section of our fan base (perhaps you were focused on other things) but, as you can see by the comments, many others did.

Davies gets it, Calvert-Lewin gets it, Kenny gets it... It's easier to list the youngsters who have actually avoided this almost ritualistic hammering of players brought through the ranks at this club. It`s almost like a prolonged initiation ceremony.

I've always maintained that TW offers a really accurate reflection of the thoughts and opinions of the Goodison crowd. You surely must have seen the needless negativity directed at players who have come through the ranks? Yeah the imports get it too, occasionally, but nowhere near on the same scale.

I don't know what it is. I've racked my brains for years about this. Is it jealousy? Are we so desperate for them to succeed, that we get frustrated with them more readily? I honestly don't know. I only know that if there is one thing I could change about this club, this would be it.

Those claiming it happens at other clubs may well be right. I don't know about that either, but what happens at other clubs is of no concern whatsoever to me.

I guess Mike G, speaking as blue from afar offers the most plausible explanation when he simply observes we are a "tough crowd"... I just wish that toughness was a little more evenly distributed.

The comments regarding rights as a fan are reasonably fair on here because we pay the ticket price. Of course, if the effort is not there, we feel justified to give the team or individual some stick. However, an observation on life's highway has been that I've never seen anybody respond to negative criticism.

Just a few years ago, I was with my youngest son in the top balcony. We'd taken a cheap flight from near Stuttgart to watch the game. Jags was playing and was doing okay but not brilliant. A guy just behind us was shouting at the top of his vocals just about all the way through the game... "You're shite, Jagielka, just shite Jagielka". We saw the funny side of it and still laugh about it to this day. But heaps of the other fans were shouting to him to just sit down and shut his mouth (well, maybe not quite that polite!!). The game was against Villa and we should have won but drew 2-2 I think. Abgonlahor (don't know how to spell it) did give Jags some problems.

Looking forward to the Puremier Leage fixture list as I will be in England for about 10 days during September and hoping there will be a game at Goodison and maybe one away. Last time I was there, it was an international break so I missed out.

I suspect that at least some of those who boo our younger players have a bit of that mindset. Says a lot more about them than the hard-working young lads making careers as footballers, doesn't it?

I know from friends that this happens at other clubs. Maybe if we had the class I keep reading about on here, we'd stop it, wouldn't we?

Barkley is the only player recently sold that was home produced and he can barely break into a struggling Chelsea team who have had thier worst season in the Premier League years.

I don't see any of the current crop of youngsters, Lookman included, becoming top top stars, just squad players at best.

In relation to how all players respond to getting dog's abuse or being encouraged, it surely hasn't escaped the attention of anyone who attends the games that our best performances of the season came after the crowd started to get fully behind the team after the derby match. The siren and greater number of flags and banners displayed also added to the more up-beat demeanour of the entire crowd.

I have read many posts on other threads about how it is up to the players to do something to stir the crowd into action but those last five home games with the crowd taking the lead produced the best atmosphere at Goodison for a long long time, and also the best performances from the team. Irrespective of who is chosen if we get behind the players they will all respond. Long may it continue.

Whatever the design of the new stadium, it has to enable a great atmosphere.

I trust my explanation will clear the air, the ramblings of an 80-year-old man who, 'sees no evil, hears no evil, and speaks no evil'.

Crowd according to the link below 62,000 but it felt like more to me.

Link

My enduring memory of that game – the midfield battle between Tony Kay and Louis Suarez – two great players.

He copped his fair share of abuse too!!

Russell, Bayern is something anyone who was there will remember until the day they die, and I personally think that if we have a good summer in the transfer market, then the good times are on there way back.

Why do I think like this? Because the crowd has really started to stir again at Goodison, and I hope it can stay like this until the famous old lady shuts her doors forever, because if it does it’ll definitely mean Everton are on their way back to where they truly belong!

I was in the Gwladys for quite a few 60's derbies where you couldn't move even to go for a pee but that Bayern night was incredible.

It was like something supernatural and, like you, I look forward to the days we can start recreating the famous "Goodison roar".

It is surprising that Rondon, Rashford, Jiminez and Ings all have a worse conversion rate than Calvert-Lewin.

Whilst typing, I remember the game against Burnley last season; Ashley Williams was roundly booed every time he got the ball, Michael Keane came in for some stick and I remember Leighton Baines actually reacting to a section in the Lower Bullens when he got the bird. I recall thinking to myself, "Leighton Baines WTF??"

He said Liverpudlians get behind their own team more, whilst Evertonians are better at destroying the opposition with their wit, and he’d witnessed this countless times, saying that the crowd were very cutting, and he’d have hated to play against Everton because of this. (Maybe that’s why our team have been scared for a few seasons now, probably up until the Liverpool game?)

We cannot do that at present by outspending them, although Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs all have specific financial issues to contend with at present. But, realistically speaking, we need to develop youngsters and use our money well.

We cannot buy a young player and expect top-level consistency. If we could, they wouldn't go to the 7th best team in the Premeir League. We need to develop youngers and give them time.

Getting rid of Lookman now isn't giving tem time. He might not come back and bite us but there is evidence that he can. He shone at Leipzig after all – it wasn't a fluke. His ability is clear. Just like Deulofeu who Koeman didn't have patience with... who scored 12 goals and provided 5 assists in 28 starts in all comps this season. And for a lesser team.

We need a little patience. As Darren suggested, that can come from the fans and it can come from the management too. I would much prefer us taking a risk on Lookman, and it not working out, than playing Theo who will definitely not become the player we need.

Looking to the future is risky but it is better than standing still with the also-rans considered not good enough for the first 11s of the teams we are trying to catch.

Get rid of Theo, Bolasie and Tosun – buy top level by all means, but give the youngsters an opportunity to stake a claim for a regular first-team role. And that doesn't mean dropping them after one bad game but giving them a run in the team to prove their worth.

I note that Seamus Coleman was talking about James McCarthy being back to his old self, hard tackling & robust challenges. He needs a chance before we offload him too!

Silva has his own ideas on what he wants and, after one full season, must by now know who will not fit into his plans, so I expect a major clearout before next season starts.

We all have our opinions of course and it remains to be seen if Lookman or Walcott can be part of the plans although I am sure Walcott is happy drawing big money when not starting games.

He is past his best but can still be a part of the Everton setup with his experience and eye for goal.

But also for me, he doesn't tackle and won't put his body on the line, plus his frustrating knack of not hitting the target, or his decision making when a pass would have been a better option (he is not the only one in that regard), makes me hope he is sold in the next couple of months.

Not every forward likes or is suited to track back. He might not throw himself into tackles but he does cut out a lot of passes. Bernard is also guilty of a lot of misplaced passes... but he is new and is Brazilian.

Anyway, given he should naturally improve with experience, I'd prefer us to stick with what we have and consolidate with just a couple top quality signings.

And he had his 30th birthday in March, so his one asset, his speed, is possibly on the wane. Yet another one to add to that 'shocking buy' list of the Moshiri era.

He would go missing from games, his passing and finishing was largely woeful (missing innumerable chances), and our form dramatically improved when Richarlison took his place on the right.

He was poor, very poor, and showed nothing to merit being given a starting role in the No 9 position.

He makes more than £100k a week, is now 30, and quite simply is the epitome of "a player with potential". When describing him, the most used word is "if".

Hopefully someone like Newcastle, Palace, Brighton will offer him a new home this summer.

I agree completely, that youngsters should be given lee-way on form consistency. Even older players hit a dip in form. After all, form is temporary, class is permanent.

However, reading between the lines on Silva's comments about Ademola seems to refer to his mental inconsistency. While playing form may be up and down with youngsters, their desire to train hard, improve, impress, work hard on the pitch, take on advice, should not waiver. That should be evident at all times.

So perhaps it's this aspect of young Ademola's inconsistency that is preventing him from getting playing time. If his mentality is not right, then he may well be a misfit wherever he plays. Talent alone is not enough, as Ballotelli and others of his ilk proved throughout their troubled careers. Players with natural outstanding ability need the right attitude if they are to use their gift to the maximum.

With regards to Lookman, Vlasic, Sandro or any others who may go on to shine not playing in an Everton shirt, it is all about the here and now and if it is happening, that's why players leave or clubs want to sell. Gerry Delf at Watford has had a good season. Should we have kept him? Probably not. Players all hit the levels at different times. Nothing is black and white. There are so many dynamics at play.

We weren't the only club to lose patience with Geri by a long shot. So did Sevilla, Milan and of course Barcelona. I remember La Marca in Spain naming him to the Worst 11 in La Liga (although I can't remember whether it was for Sevilla or Barca). And even at Watford he was pretty much a frustrating flop for almost a year -- he didn't really get his shit together until this past December or so.

Full credit to him for finally growing up at 25 and playing up to his talent level, but there was never any assurance it was going to happen and I don't blame Koeman a bit for deciding not to wait around for it.

But I fully agree with you on taking a chance on Lookman rather than wasting minutes on Theo, although unfortunately Silva seems to disagree with us.

Then I think of Bernard, who joined us after injury and no pre-season, clearly struggling with the pace of our game, showing regular sublime skill, creating chances and tackling back like a terrier.

I know who I prefer.

The man has talent but is it the right talent at this time for us to omit, say, Richarlison, Bernard or, even, Sigurdsson? A nice bench player at this time but .

"I'm curious to know who the "supporters" of Lookman would leave out of our first 11 to accommodate him?"

We don't even know who our starting 11 will be at this stage, but we do know we will need more than 11 players. Wanting to keep a young player does not equate to demanding a starting place for him... right now.

"Is he the target of top 6 interest?" ... What? Are any of our players?

If not being the "target of top 6 interest" is reason to get rid of the youngsters, where does that leave the senior players? They have far less scope for improvement.

"Do we want that sort of player?"

What sort would that be? ... You know nothing about this guy, and base your question on unsubstantiated speculation.

Let's keep writing them off before their careers are even off the ground. Fuck this development lark.

"Do we want that kind of player?" is simply the raising of a question with the obvious wish to stimulate a discussion. It has no unsubstantiated speculation attached at all.

Regarding writing them off, nobody is doing that only raising valid opinions on whether a player is worth persevering with and the club seems to have made it's mind up. Remember that the call is 100% the club's. They've had several years now to gauge his potential. Surely the way to kill a club is to keep players who don't show signs of making it? I believe that we must keep refreshing the pool of talent to see different blends that may one day click.

Do successful keep underperforming staff just in case they make it? Keeping players who are unlikely to make it at the club is also unfair as it prevents them from reaching their potential somewhere else. We don't see the players in training so we can only raise opinion.

It's ironic that the Spaniard has grown into a regular Premier player with Norwich who now challenge Blues for the' eight is great'place every season.

Let's just hope that Lookman now disappears into the German league so that we don't have to see what we were missing with yet another kid hardly given a chance.

Have Watford dumped him as well?

Love Deulofeu – we should've kept him.
Love Ademola too – we should make him happy!!

The misfit was top. Despite rarely getting a run of starts.

Lookman created 0.25 chances per 90 minutes that should have been scored. that put him 33rd in the league just above James Maddison and below Juan Mata.

Incidentally, our prospective new signing Gomes achieved 0.05 per 90, the same as Gueye, which makes them one of the least creative central midfield combinations in the league. Gueye at least makes up for it with an outstanding amount of tackles and interceptions.

Anyway I know many on here deplore stats but suffice to say that we will need to create more chances next season if we are to move up the table.