Atrocious result as Everton self-destruct

By Michael Kenrick 16/09/2018 261comments  |  Jump to last

Theo Walcott had recovered from a rib injury and was in the starting line-up
Everton 1 - 3 West Ham United

Everton self-destruct with two horrible goals given away in a shockingly awful first-half display against the bottom side to gift them their first win of the season, with those soft goals coming from previous Everton target, Yarmolenko.

Bernard and Lookman are on the bench with Walcott, Sigurdsson, Calvert-Lewin, and Tosun as the attacking force. Gylfi Sigurdsson is the captain today.

Jack Wilshere was not involved for West Ham after rolling his ankle. Pellegrini made six changes for this game. Yarmolenko, previously a serious Everton target, made his first start for them after signing in the summer.

In his programme notes, Marco Silva says: “It's our job to find different solutions. We have to plan with the players we have that are fit for the match.

“We made a good start, but we could have taken more points as well. Our last game wasn't the best performance, but the attitude was right. We have to play a little bit faster and create more chances to score.

“They [West Ham] are a strong team, a lot of quality. Everything is new for them: new process, new coach, we have to play at our best level to win the match.”

Everton started with forward intent, Digne firing high and wide. But some silly head tennis allowed West Ham to respond. Some quick movement almost put Digne in but it was defended well.

Walcott did well to create a cross and the move won a corner but, when it came to Gueye, he mis-kicked it poorly. However the game was being played almost all in West Ham's half, a brilliant ball launched from deep almost controlled by Calvert-Lewin, but not quite.

But from a simple turnover – the ball bouncing off Tosun's shins — West Ham broke, Arnautovic burst forward between Zouma and Holgate, crossed to Yarmelenko, and a simple painful goal was given up on 11 minutes. That would totally change the tenor of the game.

Walcott controlled a brilliant crossfield ball but put his delivery too close to Fabianksi. As soon as there was a loose Everton pass, West Ham again broke at tremendous speed. Schneiderlin gave up a free-kick, Diop poked the delivery straight at Pickford when swung in, getting in front of the entire defensive blue line.

A poor pull-back by Calvert-Lewin led to a very unnecessary booking for the Everton forward. Another really sloppy turnover and Arnoutovic was off; it needed a fine covering tackle from Holgate, Everton totally rattled.

Idrissa Gueye was having a horrible game, wasting an easy forward ball, slightly overhitting what could have been a good pass to Digne... Everton's quick passing was simply not working.

Arnoutovic tried to fool Atkinson claiming Holgate fouled him in the Everton area but no punishment given out. Everton tried to play forward down the right but Walcott ran into a cul-de-sac.

A fine move and cross by Digne, a pinpoint ball onto Tosun's head, put straight at Fabianski, terrible chance missed. Gueye then totally wasted the attack with an awful shot 10 yards wide.

Calvert-Lewin let a brilliant ball from deep by Digne just bounce off his head, no effort to control it, and another opportunity lost. Schneiderlin, so sloppy, just gave the ball away to his marker, and Pickford needed to come out quickly to snuff out more unforced danger.

An unbelievable spell of play, Pickford playing an awful ball out, Gueye dispossessed, tried to foul Noble, and Yarmelenko gets forward, curling in a brilliant shot to beat a dismal Pickford all hands down. Absolutely atrocious football from Everton.

An attack down the left saw the ball ping around in front of Fabianski but it came to nothing.

Walcott put in a brilliant first-time cross-shot that required palming over by Fabianski and Sigurdsson's delivery on the corner was good but defended out. Tosun then got a gift but looked so laboured and scuffed his shot at Fabianski rather than passing to Walcott or Calvert-Lewin who had supported his forward run.

A clumsy challenge by Masuaku saw a high kick on the back of Walcott's head in the corner of the West Ham area, but only a yellow and not a red or a penalty. A low shot from the free kick was sent straight at Fabianski.

Fine play and another brilliant cross from Digne were not supported, and another easy giveaway saw West Ham slice through a non-existent midfield, Kenny fouling. Yarmolenko delivered the free kick directly to Pickford. Schneiderlin was strangely replaced by Barnard just 3 minutes before the break, perhaps the Frenchman suffering after losing his father during the week.

Another absolutely brilliant cross from Digne, not converted, but the recycling finally came to Kenny who picked out Sigurdsson near the penalty spot and the Icelander coolly powered home a delicious header into the top corner, for some redemption after a truly frightening first half from Marco Silva's injury-hit side.

West Ham kicked off the second half. An Everton move down the left looked promising but Keeny's cross was not well targetted. Walcott then went down after getting caught by Rice. From a free-kick after Holgate was penalized, Obiang fired wide; Yarmolenko was booked for dragging back Bernard.

West Ham got a free-kick, Bernard was blocked off by Zabaleta for another card. Kenny did well to run Masuaku behind for a goal kick as West Ham still offered something. At the other end, Sigurdsson seemed to be barged down by Obiang but nothing given by Atkinson.

Everton won a corner that Sigurdsson delivered very well, but a defender got to it first and it was off to the races again for The Hammers, but this time the move was stalled. Another really exquisite cross in from Kenny was not attacked.

It was end to end at this point, Digne very cool in heading a cross back to Pickford under an extreme threat behind him. Everton were crossing in from both sides now, but West Ham were defending effectively as the crowd got a little noisy again.

But West Ham sliced into the Everton area, Arnoutaovic slotting past Pickford, with Holgate, Zouma and Keeny all seemingly unaware of the danger. Astounding.

Tosun was fouled for a dangerous free-kick off the left corner of the West Ham penalty box. Sigurdsson territory, but Arnoutovic went down and limped off to be replaced by Antonio, before he drove poorly into the wall, Digne firing the rebound well wide. A total waste of a vital set-piece.

Calvert-Lewin advanced well enough but lost momentum and got surrounded, Tosun (offside) lashing over. Walcott looked to deliver a better cross, but straight to Fabianski. Walcott controlled a Pickford hoof brilliantly but Tosun's control was very poor, and Silva decided it was time for Niasse with 20-odd minutes left, to replace Tosun, who had failed to score for a fifth successive game.

Niasse got into space but his pass to Walcott was atrocious. Time wasting by West Ham at a throw-in aggrieved the depressed Goodison crowd as the ball was fired wide.

Niasse got wide but put his cross too close to Fabianski. Walcott was pulled back, Sanchez getting a yellow card. Another chance for the set-piece maestro, Sigurdsson to show his mettle... straight into the wall. Lookman was the final change, replacing Walcott.

Holgate's ball forward to Niasse was too difficult to control, with Everton struggling to create real chances, while West Ham came forward with shots that needed blocking. Sigurdsson tried to make space and won a corner, but nothing came from it except a surge upfield by the Hammers that needed Kenny's interception on Anderson's final ball.

Kenny delivered another brilliant cross that Fabiaskin came out to tip away from Niasse. Everton kept pushing forward Niasse seems to have a chance, then another brilliant cross in from Digne smashed onto the bar by Niasse.

But the fundamental quality of Everton's play was really not good enough to pull back the two-goal deficit, with West Ham showing more interest in coming forward and forcing a corner, teasing Everton to reclaim the ball as the clock ticked down to a horrific scoreline for the Goodison faithful, who had already been leaving in droves.

Snodgrass swept Bernard's feet away from him for a yellow. Digne put in a fair cross from the free-kick but Zouma was static for the header. West Ham easily played out the final minutes in complete control over a totally demoralized Everton side.

Scorers: Sigurdsson (45+2'); Yarmolenko (11', 31'), Arnaoutovic (61')

Everton: Pickford, Kenny, Holgate, Zouma, Digne, Gueye, Schneiderlin (43' Bernard [Y:90+4']), Walcott (76'Lookman), Sigurdsson {c}, Calvert-Lewin [Y:18'], Tosun (69' Niasse).
Subs not Used: Stekelenburg, Baines, Davies, Dowell.

West Ham United: Fabianski; Zabaleta [Y:53'], Balbuena, Diop, Masuaku [Y:39']; Noble (71' Sanchez [Y:75']), Rice, Obiang; Yarmolenko [Y:50'] (82' Snodgrass [Y:91']), Arnautovic (64' Antonio), Felipe Anderson.
Subs not Used: Adrian, Ogbonna, Lucas Perez, Cresswell.

Attendance: 39,161

Reader Comments (261)

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Dave Abrahams
1 Posted 16/09/2018 at 15:18:20
Baines is the only defender on the bench, maybe because he's the only fit one left.
Wayne Maher
2 Posted 16/09/2018 at 15:20:43
I'm sick of Calvert-Lewin on the wing when there's Lookman and Bernard. Calvert-Lewin offers nothing on the wing.
Pat Kelly
4 Posted 16/09/2018 at 15:21:43
Next time we try our hand at tapping up, could we try tapping up a striker?
Mike Moore
5 Posted 16/09/2018 at 15:28:50
Who is the captain?
Pat Kelly
6 Posted 16/09/2018 at 15:43:52
Gylfi is captain.
Max Murphy
7 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:27:31
Sigurdsson's first mention on the TV commentary came after 22 minutes
Tony Twist
8 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:30:50
Here we go again. The club is an embarrassment. West Ham don't look like the side that has lost all its matches.
Max Murphy
9 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:31:07
West Ham have already reached half their goals for tally for the season.
Painful to watch. Passing abysmal. So much for the new era.
Lennart Hylen
11 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:34:16
This is Everton as I wrote yesterday. 0-2
Danny Baily
12 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:36:29
Carragher loving this on Sky.
Tony Twist
13 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:37:13
Another charlatan of a manager.
Lewis Barclay
14 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:50:15
Zouma is absolute dog shit.
Lennart Hylen
15 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:51:52
Some hope Gylfi? 1-2
Jay Wood

16 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:57:47
Well, that was a chastising half.

Silva clearly has not yet addressed Everton's propensity of the last 14 months of not making teams work for their goals.

We looked good until their first goal, but thereafter, West Ham has played all around us.

Brave sub before halftime to bring on Bernard for Schneiderlin and Giffy's goal gives us a foothold in the game the first half performance barely merits.

We need something from this game, or the concerns expressed about Silva's defensive record at Hull and Watford when we were pursuing him will not be laid to rest any time soon.

George Cumiskey
17 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:57:54
If Silva can't see we have the two worst strikers in the Premier League, we are in trouble.
Brian Wilkinson
18 Posted 16/09/2018 at 16:59:19
Enough on the bench with Niasse or Lookman to pull this back. That was a big goal at the right time just before half-time, it will have the West Ham players' nerves rattling.

Straight at them second half, score one and we will get another, West Ham will crumble.

Peter Cummings
19 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:06:54
If the FA deduct points for the so called 'tapping up' of Silva from Watford, I think our season could effectively be over as far as a top four finish is concerned. We are already double figures behind on points in the Premier League and, if today's half-time result still stands at full time, it's game over as far as the top goes.
Lennart Hylen
21 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:20:29
How about defence training? 1-3!!!

Is this the bottom team that has lost the last four that are our opponents?

Max Murphy
22 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:24:41
Tosun the Tosser...
Christy Ring
23 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:26:02
Our midfield is wide open with Schneiderlin gone.
Danny Baily
24 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:26:40
Lookman for Walcott maybe?
George Cumiskey
25 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:28:11
How is Dominic Calvert-Lewin still on the pitch???
Neil Lawson
26 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:33:30
There is something unique about being an Evertonian. Somehow we know what is going to happen. Why aren't we surprised by current events? Will likely end up 2-3 with screams for a penalty not given. 4-3 ? Don't think so.
Max Murphy
27 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:34:43
Everton continue to disgrace and embarrass their fans. We are the laughing stock of English football.

The bottom club have already scored 3 against us — 1 more than they have scored in their first 4 games!!!

I can't stand it anymore. I feel sorry for all the Everton fans who went to the game. I'm abroad, but I'm avoiding the world...

Christy Ring
28 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:41:24
We're making West Ham look good — absolutely shocking, 3 goals 3 mistakes again... as for Niasse!?!??
Max Murphy
29 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:44:22
Hang your heads in shame.
Blake Olsen
30 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:46:21
Silva Out!!!

Get rid of Niasse — he tries but he is hopeless

Nev Renshaw
31 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:48:08
Looks like it's going to be another long drab season for us again. I've gotten now that I don't look forward to the football season anymore.
Gareth Clark
32 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:49:37
Holgate has had a shocker - I cannot wait until Mina & Keane are back... He's a decent back up, but fuck me, he's had a nightmare.

Calvert-Lewin should start up top, Tosun has been mediocre.

Bernard has been quite exciting – I would like to see him play more.

The biggest issue for me, is that our fullbacks go far too high up the pitch. When we lose possession, we are a shambles.

Danny Baily
33 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:53:27
Silva has made a right dog's dinner of this afternoon with that early sub.
Ian Riley
34 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:54:50
Sadly this has been coming!!

The starting lineup was of a side playing away from home. Our strikers are not Premier League standard. This may cost us till January or next summer.

Phil Wood
35 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:55:09
Oh Dear!

This was so obviously going to be West Ham's first win, judging on our Huddersfield no-show. Terrible.

Bring on the good sides. We will probably turn them over. This is life as an Evertonian. Help! Nurse bring my medication.

Brian Wilkinson
36 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:56:15
Well, that was shite.
Craig Walker
37 Posted 16/09/2018 at 17:56:20
I hope Silva is the coach that others say he is because we look fragile at the back, toothless up front, and with no guile in midfield. Same old story. So many players who wouldn't get into the top teams' reserve sides.

The Richarlison red card has cost us dearly. I hope he doesn't get another or any injuries.

Ray Said
38 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:00:09
Both full-backs attacking at the same time exposes the lack of a good defensive midfielder to cover them that in turn leaves both central defenders then exposed and pulled out of place.

Loads of unforced errors and misplaced passes. Players – Holgate, Gana, Kenny – letting players run past then and strolling back.

Very poor. I'm going to find a wall to bang my head on for an hour or two. This club kills your hopes.

George Cumiskey
39 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:00:14
Played off the park — but what do you expect when we have Calvert-Lewin, Holgate, Tosun, Kenny, Niasse on the pitch when they are obviously not Premier League quality.

Besides one good header, Sigurdsson was garbage again. And I won't even mention Gana.

Jim Harrison
40 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:00:30
Odd game that. There were some good interchanges that end with cheaply ceding possession. Every time I thought we were getting back in — they scored.

For me, it's the same problem as it has been for ages. We are too light in central midfield. They absolutely bullied us.

Still, we have yet to see our new centre-back, our highest scorer is back next match, and Gomes will be closer to being available.

Michael Kenrick
41 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:00:52
I was thinking that, Craig, I'm so mad still with Richarlison for that idiotic moment which has cost us so many points and in one breath condemned the beginning of our season to the scrapheap.
Craig Walker
42 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:00:57
People who mention “Top 4” after a couple of possibly good signings should be banned. Do we ever learn?

Top 4 is over now? When was top 4 ever possible? Based on what? A manager who nearly kept Hull up but didn't and players like Holgate, Davies, Niasse and Schneiderlin being regulars?

Ciarán McGlone
43 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:01:36
Tosun and Sigurdsson should form a comedy double act.

Silva could make guest performances. I cant believe we actually tapped this guy up... why?

Steve Ferns
44 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:02:08
That was as bad as anything last season. Truly dreadful. No one emerges with any credit from this performance. What the fuck was he doing going 4-4-2? It should be thrown in the tactical dustbin.

Everything needs work. Get beat by Arsenal and we're in for a another dreadful season.

Hywel Owen
45 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:02:42
Is Big Sam available????
Ian Riley
46 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:03:05
Top four. Let's be realistic!! Top eight at best.
Tony Twist
47 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:03:38
You can't say that this sort of result hasn't been coming. It was apparent with preseason friendlies as it is glaringly apparent now. The club is a joke and seems unwilling to learn from previous errors.

Silva has been given the benefit of the doubt but his inability to cure the problem says to me that we have another Martinez on our hands who thinks that our star Brazilian will score enough goals to make us win some matches.

Truely embarassing. It's like the late seventies all over again with the RS cruising and us a laughing stock.

James O'Connell
48 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:03:52
Everton continue outstanding charity work in Premier League.
Tom Dexter
49 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:03:59
Very sloppy performance today -– the way Holgate was brushed off the ball consistently was scary!

Misplaced passes in the midfield all game – Gueye being the worst offender.

I think Tosun has it in his locker – but needs to be taken out of the firing line and calvert-Lewin put up top.

One bright spark was the forward play of Digne – great distribution – but if he goes forwards someone needs to cover!!!!

Pat Kelly
50 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:04:51
We have a squad packed with players who are and never will be Premier League standard. That's the simple explanation. Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Tosun, Niasse, Schneiderlin, Davies, etc. This season is a write-off in terms of winning anything, but what's new there. Silva looks bewildered.
Andy Mead
51 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:05:27
Absolutely pathetic. Silva is another Martinez. Same formation, same players, week-in & week-out.

Why two defensive midfielders at home to West Ham? Why Calvert-Lewin on the wing with Lookman and Bernard on the bench? No wonder Lookman wants to go to Germany!

No creativity at all. We have had the easiest opening fixtures we could have asked for and already we are in the shit. 1 point from Huddersfield and West Ham at home... that's relegation form.

Ciaran O'Brien
52 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:05:39
Same old, same old. Shite defense, midfield and attack. Tosun, Niasse, Calvert-Lewin, Walcott, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Holgate and Kenny aren't good enough. Gueye is a world class ball winner but can't pass for his life. Pickford had a mare for the second goal. Only Digne and Bernard were any good.

The sooner Mina and Gomes come in, the better... otherwise, we're in for another shitetastic season.

We need a top class striker in January or move Richarlison there. Look at the difference that Arnautavoic made compared to Tosun, Niasse and Calvert-Lewin. A better striker would have put away those two great chances for Tosun and Niasse.

Not fucking good enough losing 3-1 at home to fucking Eastenders.

David Hallwood
53 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:08:57
Like everyone, I'm thoroughly pissed off by what I've seen, but played off the park? Toscun should've had a hat-trick. Oh for a quality striker.

We looked poor in midfield and at the back but give it time, let's see what happens when we get Gomes and Mina fit and integrated.

Craig Walker
54 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:10:03
Also, this myth about Pickford’s super distribution needs to stop. He gave them a goal today and found a claret shirt time and time again. He hasn’t come back from the World Cup yet.
Jay Wood

55 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:10:10
We've got problems.

We played 'prettily' up to their opening goal, but then in truth for the rest of the game were second best.

This at home against the (until today) poorest team in the league.

All the issues of last season are still evident:

* the opposition doesn't have to work hard, or do anything exceptional, to score against us. Many times the goals conceded are of our own making

* we still lack physical presence all over the park. How many times do you see an Everton player sprawled on the floor, having easily been nudged off the ball?

* little guile or ability on the ball to make a telling pass to turn or open up a defence

* too ponderous in our build-up, allowing the opposition ample time to reset and repel our attack

* resorting to hopeful long punts forward in the absence of confidence or ability to 'play' our way back into the game

* little or no evidence of resilience, an ability to come back into the game after conceding

Six points from five fixtures – three of those at home – against the benevolent opposition we have faced and nine goals conceded represents a very poor return.

There were some good moments from most players in Blue today. There was also some very poor moments from the same players.

IMO, it looks as if the very competent managers of other teams know what to expect and set up their teams to easily pick off Mario Silva's Everton.

A LOT of work still to be done to be able to compete against even sterner opposition than we have faced to date.

Joe Clitherow
56 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:10:18
We get worse every single week.

I'm starting to be concerned that Silva may be Martinez Mk II as we seem incapable of defending anything. Kenny was completely roasted by Anderson second half and nothing was changed at all.

Eddie Dunn
57 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:14:19
The only good thing is that we did actually create some opportunities — pity Toscun and Niasse squandered them. There were so many shocking performances out there with Holgate the worst. Gana tried to be our playmaker and it was just sad to see his inability to pass accurately.

I can't fathom what Silva set them up to do. Was Schneiderlin removed due to his Dad's death or was he crocked... the staff seemed to be asking him questions when he sat down?

There was no cohesiveness in the midfield, it really looked like a team of strangers, all giving the ball away and rushing their play. Prior to the game, I was wondering whether we would have any cutting edge without Richarlison and, although we did have some chances from the full-backs crossing, we have no quality up top.

Niasse is limited, Tosun slower than me, and Calvert-Lewin playing out of position.


Dave Williams
58 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:14:27
That was truly awful. Very poor goals to concede. We were completely out muscled in midfield and defence and were wide open to them all game.

Holgate was simply overpowered, Zouma was all over the place, we had no control in centre midfield and Siggy apart from his goal did absolutely nothing and is not worth his place. Tosun should have scored three and did not hold the ball up at all.

Full backs weren't too bad overall and Bernard was bright and must play now with Richarlison coming back too. Siggy I would drop as I just don't see what he brings to the team- whoever thought he was worth £45m needs to take a good look at themselves- even his dead ball delivery has waned!

As for Lookman he didn't give me the feeling that here is a young lad with something to prove. Kenny and Digne were the only players to warrant more than five out of ten for that performance- there were a few threes and that may be generous!

We need Mina alongside Keane and Bernard alongside Richarlison. CM is a problem because the passing is poor and we are being overrun. This whole performance was reminiscent of Martinez but at least in his team Lukaku would have scored three on his own today.

There is a lot of work to do here and whether Silva is up to it remains to be seen.

Dreadful display!

Hywel Owen
59 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:15:49
Maybe Big Sam is not the most astute modern tactical coach there is but that shower in blue who call themselves footballers would not dare to play like that for him.
Tony Marsh
60 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:17:09
The same players and tactics that got Koeman sacked, made Unsworth look suicidal, and couldn't save Big Sam, are now being employed in the same roles as under Silva.

How long will it take or how many managers does it need to see the bleeding obvious? I could not understand the decision to give Robles away in the pre-season. I think Joel is a far better keeper than Pickford who is too small for the modern game.

The Gueye and Schniderlin double act being used by the 4th manager in succession is becoming an embarrassing joke. No doubt they will be in the team at Arsenal but it doesn't really matter as our season as far as league placings goes is already over. No top 6 this time around guys.

Ray Said
61 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:17:15
At the end of this season, I fear we will look back and think "Why the hell did we appoint a guy who managed one team to relegation then got sacked from his next team and expect him to produce a winning team?"

I know he has his vocal and very persuasive advocates but the evidence of my own eyes is telling me that we have made another poor appointment. I really hope I am wrong.

George Cumiskey
62 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:17:51
Why people want to play Calvert-Lewin anywhere on the pitch is beyond me, he obviously isn't Premier League quality.

They bring on Antonio we bring on Niasse — says it all really.

Andy Walker
63 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:18:01
Holgate's been having a shocker most games. He gets away with his terrible defending by looking composed on the ball.

I will state again, but with a downgrade, the players are not good enough, only Pickford would stand any chance of getting in a top 6 side. (Last season I used to include Coleman, Sigurdsson and Walcott in the list, but the top 6 have moved on and we haven't.)

Jim Bennings
64 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:18:28
Utter shit-fest!!

Nothing changes at Everton other than players not caring enough, talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Absolutely criminal that we never invested in a centre-forward in summer and are relying on dross like Tosun, Calvert-Lewin and Oumar Niasse for our goals.

Richarlison needs to made central striker from next week with Bernard wide left, end of story.

Eddie Dunn
65 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:19:55
Jim — good shout.
Pat Kelly
66 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:22:07
There are going to be some awful hidings for this team this season, as evidenced by today. Most of the Everton players don't have it in them to be much better. It's not just a case of them having a bad day. They are not good enough and never will be. We have to face up to that.
Andy Walker
67 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:22:55
Can we just forget Lookman, by the way. The guy doesn't want to be anywhere near us. It's as clear as day and has been for a year.
Jim Bennings
68 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:26:18

One of those hidings will be next week!

Fully expect us to get our usual trouncing by Arsenal at the Emirates next Sunday; on today's defensive showing, it could be a very long 90 minutes.

Mike Anson
69 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:27:14
Just come back from watching the match in the pub, at least the beer was good!! A number of comments:

a) West Ham weren't that good... sad thing is that they didn't need to be;

b) Sloppy individual errors cost us again;

c) Pickford's poorest game in an Everton shirt by a long way;

d) Little closing down, the Hammers players had all the time to pick a pass;

e) There was always a West Ham player to pick up a loose ball.

f) I fear that Sigurdsson is too slow for the No 10 role;

g) Overall, a poor defensive display.

h) If we play like that against any of the top sides, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea & Spurs, they'll tear us a new one!!!

How the West Ham player didn't get a red card for that challenge on Walcott was beyond me. If that wasn't dangerous play what is???

Positives were that Digne looks good going forward and Bernard looks tricky. I hope Silva is giving them a right bollocking.

Simon Smith
70 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:29:16
One good performance I thought was from Digne. Maybe not defensively but offensively he was great. Tosun should have scored from him.
Andy Walker
71 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:30:27
Tony, spot on mate. I repeated time and again last season that we could have had Pep as manager and we'd still have been shite.

Until Mina, Richarlison, Bernard, Zouma, and hopefully Gomes are up to speed, we will remain poor.

Davies (I know he didn't play today), Holgate, Kenny and Calvert-Lewin should all be 3rd choice.

Having said that, we have not a single top-quality striker so we will always struggle.

George Cumiskey
72 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:30:53
Like Einstein said: doing the same things time after time and expecting a different result is lunacy.

And that seems to be happening at Everton.

Jim Bennings
73 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:31:04
The lack of heart is what irks me most, no tackles no pressing.

If that's our players' answer to that lot across the park playing so well, then it just proves to me they have no care about giving the fans pride in this very rapidly turning Red city.

Embarrassed by them to represent my club.

John Williams
74 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:33:09
Really disappointing performance. Wide open in midfield, not enough movement off the ball, and some atrocious passing. No-one played particularly well although I thought Digne, Kenny and Bernard put in creditable performances.

The difference in quality between their front three and Tosun, Calvert-Lewin and Walcott was startling. I've seen enough of Tosun now to realise he is a dud, not quick or skillful enough, not got the quality to be a regular Premier League scorer. Calvert-Lewin was poor, play him centrally or not at all. Walcott was pathetic, a powder-puff player with no football brain.

The midfield is of real concern, Gilfy again anonymous – particularly during the period when Yarmolenko's goals won the game – and poor with his freekicks. Gana looked really off the pace, and some of his passing is unbelievably sloppy and inaccurate. Schneiderlin was his usual standard.

I just hope we can get Gomes fit pretty soon and that he can get up to his pre-Barca level of performance.

John G Davies
75 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:34:12
Very poor performance. Wasteful in attack, dozy in defence, Digne apart.

A lot of work to be done and the new lads can't be delayed being started as soon as they are fit.

Paul Tran
76 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:34:27
Good news is that Silva must now realise what he's inherited.

Digne, Bernard and Richarlison get the ball and move it forwards quickly. I hope that's a sign that Silva is a good judge of a player.

Silva will be praying that Mina & Gomes cut it and that Richarlison is still on form when he returns. I know I am!

Pat Kelly
77 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:36:18
When will the penny drop with Silva about playing Tosun? It's decisions like that that make me question Silva's competence. Hornby could've been given a chance.

Brands & Silva have screwed up this season not getting a striker. We can't rely on Richarlison for everything.

Mike Price
78 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:40:03
Abject and heartless; we are an embarrassment.

Kenny is Sunday League, our strikers are Championship at absolute best, so thanks to Allardyce for chucking £30 million down the toilet on Tosun! He's slow, a shit finisher, no skill or hold-up play and isn't even physical. I'd take Deeney any day over him.

Why do we sign so many midgets... Digne is decent but small, Bernard looks like a munchkin, our goalie doesn't make a difference and we continually sign injured players who never get up to speed the entire season!

Joke from top to bottom... we should have kept Martinez!!

Stephen Brown
79 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:42:14
I'm willing Tosun to do well but he just doesn't look anywhere near the required standard! When you think he, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin cost nearly £100m between them! Oh dear!

We should have cashed in on Lookman and Pickford in the summer! Overrated English players again!

I actually look at Niasse playing and just feel sorry for him as he's showing himself up? He's like that bloke who pretended he was George Weah's nephew!!!

Holgate is like a little boy against men!! Digne played well going forward but I think he thought he was still playing for Barca and didn't have to defend!

However, I'm determined to show some patience this season and will stick to it (for a few more weeks anyway).

Andy Walker
80 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:42:23
Mike, in fairness to Sam, he said at the time it was a big gamble getting Tosun. He knew it was a risk. That's how it's played out. Buying a foreign striker in January is usually not a good shout and so it has proved.
Andy Crooks
81 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:42:27
I never bet for or against Everton. However, I advised a friend, a West Ham supporter, to fill his boots. I was pretty sure we would lose today because West Ham are much better than they have shown and we are a very average side.

I support Silva, accept that he needs time, but have no qualms about saying that his performance so far has been abject.

Stephen Brown
82 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:46:16
Andy (#81)

You make a very good point! I looked at the West Ham teamsheet and there were quite a few I thought – I'd have them for Everton anyday!!!

John G Davies
83 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:46:51
Kenny — Sunday League player?

I know you're disappointed, mate, but come on.

Dave Cooney
85 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:52:25
Despite the consensus on here, I thought Sigurdsson played well and is class.

We were pretty dismal today, despite the chances we had. I like Silva but today I thought he was poor with his tactical changes. I like his all out attack mentality but to take Schneiderlin off and really weaken centre mid, where a game is won and lost, was poor. Also although Tosun’s finishing was poor, he was at least in position to score, Calvert-Lewin was anonymous. West Ham we’re as bad as us in defence but crowded centre mid and were superb up front.

Judge the team and players when we can play something like the same 11 for a while, although it’s perfectly fair for fans to be felt short changed today.

Paul Ellam
86 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:55:43
Everton. There is no other club better at throwing away good opportunities when presented to them than us! We have had a very easy fixture list up til now and should really have bagged plenty more points against the teams we have faced. But, no....

We are Everton and have somehow under-performed against the also-rans. It will not be long till we are in the dreaded bottom three.

Disillusioned and disgusted.... Bring back Moyes!

Max Murphy
87 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:55:47
Shades of Sam...
Jim Bennings
88 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:56:13
We never had to go to the continent to get a striker.

Summer of 2017, when Lukaku was wrongly allowed to leave, we should have made Jamie Vardy a priority signing, two or three really good seasons until something better came along, but we wasted our time chasing Giroud which was never likely to come off.

£27 million for Tosun, not mobile enough, not quick enough not strong enough!

Pat Kelly
89 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:57:26
Please, Everton, no more cringy posts next week on the official website, of players saying how much they're raring to go and how Silva has improved them. Seems to be a feature this season. It's only fans that see that shite and we don't deserve to be insulted.
Ciaran O'Brien
90 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:59:26
I have said it before and will say it again. Our midfield is utter dross. We rely too much from our full backs and wingers to create chances. None of our midfielders can play a “decent” through ball.

Gomes needs to start with Gueye or McCarthy in a 4-3-3 for us to have any control in the game. The midfield is the most important area of the field in defense and creating good chances.

Derek Knox
91 Posted 16/09/2018 at 18:59:35
Stephen @ 79, do you mean Tynan (George Weah's nephew)?

We have had different managers and different players, yet there seems to be a malaise, and lack of attitude that you can't put your finger on.

Put it this way, if it's not sussed out, tout de suite, I see this season being a major struggle!

Personally I think there is too much money in the game; there is little incentive for players to 'bust a gut' ; where they know even a bad performance will still result in a swollen bank account regardless of effort.

Having said that, other teams are affected too by the Cornucopia of riches to all concerned, and yet still produce more passion and end result.

Phil Smith
92 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:01:39
That defeat came about because we had a back 4 that has barely played together with an average age of 23 and a main striker bang out of form.

Tosun does not look like scoring and Calvert-Lewin didn't look fit or sharp. How he played the whole game, I don't know. We need a striker in January.

Stephen Brown
93 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:04:23

Yes, the guy who pretended he was a professional footballer! I think he got a game for Southampton?!

Niasse looks like that!! He tries hard but just blatantly can't play football to the necessary standard!

Joe McMahon
94 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:07:03
It's just so predictable. I'm probably the only one who would have kept Joel Robles. The summer 2018 signings I think are of better quality... but, let's face it, apart from Walcott (also hot and cold), there isn't any.

This club has been atrociously managed since at least 1990. No wonder football fans around the country (who once had a soft spot for Everton) are sick of us, never achieving anything and a dog awful stadium to visit as an away fan.

Jerome Shields
95 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:08:32
Wrong team selection — particularly in the forwards and the coaching of the defence. . . and offensive play seems to have not been worked on this past two weeks. Silva has a problem and has not answered the questions asked as a result of the displays prior to this game.

Silva was the only candidate for the manager's jobs and Everton gave him a 3-year contract.

Frank Crewe
96 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:08:44
Silva is making exactly the same mistakes Koeman and Allardyce made. We have wide players yet he plays Calvert-Lewin out wide. We have an out-of-form striker yet Calvert-Lewin played out wide. He has no confidence in his defence so he picks both Gana and Schneiderlin.

Go to a back three. Mina has to play next week. Drop Tosun and play Richarlison as a striker:

Zouma, Mina, Keane
Kenny, Sigurdsson, Gana, Digne
Walcott, Richarlison, Bernard

Pat Kelly
97 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:09:20
Can anyone fathom why Silva insisted on keeping Niasse? We all knew he wasn't at the races, even if he ran all day. Didn't Silva see that???

And didn't he see that Tosun is out of his depth in football boots?

What we will have to endure as this long and painful season unfolds is not all down to the players. And then there's the questions over signing injured players...

Gary Willock
98 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:10:47
Our problem is we have no proper midfield. Gana and Schneiderlin have consistently failed to provide the solution here as a 2, and the 4-1-3-2 experiment in the second half failed badly too. It has to be 4-3-3 for me, with that first 3 the most important.

Until everyone is fit:

Kenny Keane or Mina Zouma Digne
Davies Schneiderlin Bernard
Walcott Richarlison Lookman

When everyone is fit:

Coleman Keane or Mina Zouma Digne
McCarthy Sigurdson Gomes
Walcott Richarlison Bernard

Jack Convery
99 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:12:52
Gutted! Filleted and hung out to dry by West Ham!!!

Get Mina, Bernard and Gomes up to speed asap. If that doesn't improve things, we're screwed.

A fed-up Blue Haddock!

Mark McParlan
100 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:12:58
Back from the match. I came into this thread wanting to begin with the word 'atrocious'. Well, looks like that's already been covered by the thread title!

I will say that the performance probably was not as bad as the result, but that does not mean that it we weren't still awful. An especially bad result considering the nature of opposition (rock bottom West Ham... although not as awful as the table suggests, this was a team on 0 points). And we *always* beat West Ham at Goodison. Very poor.

To think last season we played West Ham at Goodison in Unsworth's last game, beat them 4-0 (Rooney could still do a job!), and then Sam followed that up with a solid win over last week's opponents Huddersfield, keeping 2 clean sheets. Our fixtures hitherto have been laughably easy, and yet we've come out with a dismal return of 1 win. Yes, we've been very unlucky but things should have been a lot better.

Going through player by player...

Pickford – 5. I love him of course, and we could not realistically ask for a better goalkeeper (extra bonus points for his age and... English...ness). But that does not preclude him from being massively overrated. I don't put on him any blame for the 1st goal, but the 2nd was simply a dreadful kick out.

Kenny – 6. He had numerous poor moments, but Jonjoe is a player I will defend to the end of the earth. I don't see him as any worse than Coleman. His crossing... wow! Coleman could only dream of crossing a ball like Kenny does. He wasn't great, but I still maintain we have a serious talent on our hands. I believe in him.

Holgate – 3. Terrible, just terrible. He is physically incapable of hitting a long pass forward properly, which is something essential of all centre-backs. Hasn't played well this season. When is Mina fit?

Zouma – 5. He is a lot better going forward but the MotM player against Huddersfield was nowhere near the same today. I don't know if he is good enough defensively. There are serious questions to be asked.

Digne - 6½. I like Digne. Seems much, much faster than I had anticipated at bombing up that left hand flank. I do believe that the succession of Baines's position is in safe hands. Needs to be prevented from ever taking a free kick, or a long shot though. And as with the whole defence, 3 goals conceded is very bad.

Schneiderlin – 5. He wasn't really that bad, just usual Schneiderlin, same old backwards and (if you're lucky) sideways passes.

Gueye – 3. Terrible performance from one of my favourite players. Constantly giving away possession through horribly wayward passes.

Sigurdsson – 5. He scored (a very good header), and did have a number of excellent passes. But he disappears from games far too often. For a player in the key Number 10 position, he needs to do more. He's a decent player certainly, but £45 million – what a joke.

Walcott – 3. Ridiculously inconsistent. He'll play an absolute blinder, look like an incredible player (Southampton, Bournemouth), but have other games where he does every single thing wrong. Sadly today was one of those games. That's been Walcott's problem his whole career.

Calvert-Lewin – 3. I spend a lot of time signing his praises but I can't really defend that today. He's not a winger, play him up front. Because he scores goals.

Tosun – 3. He 'works hard' but can do absolutely nothing that every single other striker in the Premier League can also do. 5 starts, all that backing... and 0 goals against some poor sides. Not good enough, I'm sorry. Move on. 'Impotent is the word that springs to mind.

Bernard though! A glimmer of hope? He looked very, very good. Lookman cut a frustrated figure. As per, really.

Looking forward. Bernard has to start in midfield for me against Arsenal. Walcott, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin in some order as the front 3.

We seem to have signed 2 crocks in Mina and Gomes.

What worries me though, is last season we played Huddersfield and West Ham back to back. We won both games, scored 5 goals, and kept 2 clean sheets. We've just played those 2 teams... got 1 point, and conceded 4. We've played such easy teams, yet produced such below-par results. We'll be soundly beaten at the Emirates next weekend, so we'll be looking over our shoulders at the drop zone already. Worrying.

Mark Dunford
101 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:13:32
Headline nails it.

Baines should have played ahead of Digne to add experience to our defence. He may well have played more games for the club that the entirety of today's line up. Digne was good going forward and put in some very nice crosses, but the defence was at sixes and sevens for all the goals, and beyond. Not enough experience throughout the team and no leadership of note.

We need the injured players back as soon as possible and the new, high profile signings need to make an impact. To be fair, Bernard looked quite useful today but central midfield was a void for the bulk of the second half, central defence disappeared for all three goals and we were toothless up front. Zouma is fifth out of five centre halves for a reason and we know why we're struggling to offload Niasse.

Already dreading next Sunday!

Julian Exshaw
102 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:13:59
Any mention of Sam reminds me of the bleakest days of being an Evertonian. It was truly awful.

Expecting Silva to transform this club so quickly is/was asking a lot. Most of us were encouraged by what we witnessed in the first few games. Today's performance, however, has all but erased early optimism.

I think there is an improvement on the dire football we witnessed under Sam; there is more zip, more energy but we are continuously let down by defensive calamities, abysmal refereeing, and sloppy passing, not to mention missed chances. Let's get our injured players back, let's get a good win under our belts, and confidence will return.

For so many years, games against Arsenal have represented some of the lowest points in our seasons... so let's go there next week with Richarlison back, maybe Mina in at centre-back, and you never know.... Nil Satis

Jim Bennings
103 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:17:30
Whilst we continue to fall back to old favourites as regulars what can we really expect to change!

Going to the likes Gana, Schneiderlin and big up Holgate and the likes of Calvert-Lewin and pin our hopes on Niasse who has a decent attitude but what top 6 club would consider him? These players are not good enough.

Our younger players like Kenny and Holgate, Davies, Calvert-Lewin are not good enough for the Premier League.

The midfield is tepid, one paced and literally clueless. Walcott has been a bright spark but was he really fit today?

Tosun has not got the capabilities at Premier League standard and his goals last season where more the exception rather than the rule; he's no Lukaku – let's put it that way.

All eyes for me are on Richarlison and Bernard going forward, Richarlison needs to be moved into the centre and Bernard the left.

Dragging out the same failures after last season (and there are still too many here) you are only going to get more of the same.

Pat Whitmore
104 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:19:26
We're fast becoming a joke! A centre-forward who is hopeless and we have nothing to replace him with! A defence that gives the opposition so much space it's frightening.

How many times does our midfield pass straight to the opponents and why can't they ever win the second ball? I look at our last 6 home games this season and we'll be lucky to pick up many points from any of them games.

Gio Mero
105 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:23:44
Some positives:

Digne so so much better than the Baines of the last two seasons.

Bernard got West Ham 3 yellow cards in 45 minutes — we need to get him on the ball more!

Richarlison has started this season full throttle

We are yet to see Mina or Gomes but they will undoubtedly improve on our starters.

Very good buys happy with that. The season has just started: new coach, new system, it all needs a bit of patience... come on!

Pat Kelly
106 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:25:12
I remember when our season lasted till Christmas. Now it's effectively over before Halloween. There is no prospect we will do anything but struggle in all competitions. Yes, we're only a few games in. But we've got mostly the same shit players. And some we've signed aren't even fit yet.
John Keating
107 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:26:51
On the way home and half-a-dozen pints down. That was truly shocking from start to finish front to back. Embarrassing on telly for the world to see as well

I have no doubt the usual suspects will be on about injuries etc, giving this joker time etc. This guy is without doubt Martinez Mk 2.

No doubt the usual individual errors will be blamed, and rightly so, but, at the same time, Silva's tactics (if that's what you can call them) were a disgrace.

The substitutions were unbelievable. People around me were screaming watching the gung-ho attacking tactics employed by Silva. Before anything, defenders have to defend.

Fellow blues, we are in for a long few seasons with Martinez Mk 2 in charge. This guy has to wise up. If he can't see what 39,000 of us at the ground and millions watching on telly can see, we are in deep shit.

Paul Hughes
108 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:42:25
Just got back home from the match. What a shambles. The main problem, though, in my view, is that we haven't got a striker who is capable of holding up the ball, running at the defenders, and scoring a goal.

Tosun had 3 presentable chances (one may have been offside). A half-decent striker would have scored at least one, and their first goal came from the ball bouncing off his shins.

I want Calvert-Lewin to do well, but he was hopeless today, Walcott looked good for about 10 minutes, and the game then passed him by.

Their goals were all preventable, but I can just about overlook the mistakes of a patched-up back 4. Midfield was dreadful. How Gana stayed on the pitch is beyond me. You can see how Villa got relegated with him in the side.

Phew! That's off my chest. It's still early days. Let's hope Silva can pull it together once his preferred players are available.

Colin Glassar
109 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:47:17
Spineless, gutless, aimless, senseless, shambolic. That was a Ko-Mar-Dyce display par excellence. A mishmash of the worst of our last three managers, ie, no tactics, formation, spine, endeavour, will, skill, bravery etc.

All of them, absolutely all of them, were shocking – from Pickford through to Tosun. They looked like a bunch of disinterested strangers who'd never played together before.

I said at the start of the season that it will probably take until November or December for this squad to gel but this was unacceptable and the player who epitomised this lacklustre attitude was Calvert-Lewin when he couldn't even be bothered to chase down a ball that was obviously staying in.

I've defended through thick and thin our youngsters, eg, Holgate, Davies, Kenny, Calvert-Lewin etc... but if they want to make it in the Premier League, they'd better start to man-up as they looked like a bunched of frightened sissies out there today.

Pickford - 3
Kenny - 4
Holgate - 2
Zouma - 1
Digne - 5
Walcott - 4
Gana - 1
Schneiderlin - 3
Siggurdsson - 6
Calvert-Lewin - 1
Tosun - 1

Bernard - 0
Lookman - 1
Niasse - 0

Silva -1

Fucking shite, all them!

Joe McMahon
110 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:50:59
Pat (#104) that's what we do at Everton – specialise in non-scoring forwards... we've done it for years. Just to rub salt in the wound, Liverpool score for fun.

Sigurdsson also cost more than Salah, and Salah earns much less than Rooney did last season. Some would say it's not a very well run club.

Peter Mills
111 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:51:07
I wonder if we can just plead guilty to having tapped up Silva and ask the League to give us some points for doing so?
Frank McGregor
112 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:52:11
Must say this result does not surprise me as the current manager, Marco Silva, is not a manager who produces table-topping teams – as we all well know by his past history.

I posted in July that my predictions for relegation this season were Watford, Huddersfield and Everton and I don't see any reason to change my prediction.

Stephen Brown
113 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:55:19
Gueye in a relegation side, Zouma in a relegation side, Sneiderlin in a relegation side, Keane in a relegation side, Pickford in a relegation side, Sigurdsson in a near relegation side, Niasse in a relegation side.

Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Kenny – kids in a man's world!!

We are lacking winners all over the place!!!

Mike Price
114 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:56:04
Why does nothing change? Our youngsters are rubbish compared to that lot... Kenny is Sunday league, Calvert-Lewin is crap, Holgate weak and poor.

Our signings are shocking: Niasse and Tosun are the worst strikers in the Premier League and probably the Championship too, you couldn't give them away because they're on ridiculous salaries and the whole cycle of failure just keeps dragging us down.

We keep players too long: Baines, Jagielka, Coleman et al... we're a joke club, just a money farm for substandard players, coaches and staff. Any decent player would want away and you can't blame them, Richarlison will last two seasons at best.

How much have Gomes and Mina cost so far btw without kicking a ball? What a fucking shambles.

Pat Kelly
115 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:57:40
Aw come on now ffs. Cheer up. Such negativity. There's always next season.
Joe McMahon
116 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:58:39
Stephen Brown – very good points about lack of winners, it's why Moyes was here for 11 fecking years and this is why Everton don't win anything.
Conor Skelly
117 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:59:35
I'm as knee-jerk as the next Evertonian and today was a terrible result. The forwards didn't produce and we fell victim to a West Ham side that clicked on the day. Fair play to them – it was an excellent win with some to spare.

Firstly let's put things in context: what have we learned?

Calvert-Lewin and Niasse aren't good enough; there can be no dispute about this. People who "see a player in there" for either one need to ask themselves what their own expectations for Everton are.

If the players do not have the capability of playing better than they have consistently shown in their careers, then the outcome is predictable. What has Calvert-Lewin done in over 2 years in the first team squad that has given us a wow moment? Bernard showed more quality in 50 minutes today than Calvert-Lewin has shown in his entire career. Why? Because he's a much much better footballer. It's not rocket science.

I despair sometimes at the outdated almost romantic ideas some other blues have on a footballer's potential. It feels like they are seeing a mirage of what a player could be like if he didn't give the ball away all the time, could score goals, and was as good as his physique suggests.

As for Tosun, he has shown glimpses of genuine quality that one can at least make a case for... but never is he going to be our next Diego Costa.

Other Negatives would be Holgate. Again, another player whose career will mostly be defined as a player of talent that verges on Championship or bottom-half Premier League. Nothing he has done in two seasons has suggested otherwise. It is no surprise we concede too many goals. More context can be given when you consider it was his partner's home debut.

More context comes from the fact that Kenny is still learning and may never be a top right-back. Same for Davies. He doesn't look like he would stand out in any other Premier League teams.

A midfield of Schneiderlin and Gueye. That's proven time and time again not to be good enough. So what do we expect to happen?

Now for the good news. We have answers to nearly all of these problems in our squad and the signings we've made will prove to be better than many of you realize.

Digne is a brilliant, classy left-back. We have a gem there. Richarlison is quality and in terms of ability is and should be in a different league to Calvert-Lewin. In Mina, we have a player vastly superior and more influential to Holgate. In Bernard, we have a player who I believe will become a star in the Premier League and is of vastly superior quality to Sigurdsson. In Andre Gomes, we have a player of vastly more creative ability than the two roadblocks still occupying the midfield.

Areas we will need to address in the next window ideally would be big money on a striker and a right-back (maybe?).

Today was crap but patience is needed. Calls for the manager to go are from people that haven't given the context of today's performance any consideration.

Justin Doone
118 Posted 16/09/2018 at 19:59:53
Losing 3-1 at home to any team is an embarrassment. But I haven't changed my opinion in that watching us under Silva is far more enjoyable, back to the Martinez style of football only with more expensive players.

Let us all realise that top 4 finishes, even top 6 are realistic aims for Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd etc. Not Everton. I dream of Everton winning the Premier League and it will remain just that for a few more years at least. So let's all get over the disappointment of not winning anything this season and not finishing top 6. That way, Everton fans can start to support the team, not embarrass themselves or the club.

If Baines and Davies would have been playing, they would have been slaughtered for not being good enough. And yet Digne is praised by some fans and comments of how we missed Schneiderlin when he went off, I can only presume are sarcastic.

As a team, we were just not good enough today but we tried. Get Ricky back and things change. We are a 'one-man team' at least to opponents.

Paul Brown
119 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:01:12
Jagielka texting away on his phone when we are 2-0 down says it all.

This fella Silva has got me worried, I thought he could see what was going on... obviously not, as we have got worse with each game. I lost count of the times we gave away the ball too cheaply, the attitude coming off the pitch is one of “not steed”.

Worrying times ahead, I feel, as we cannot create anything from open play except launching it into the box.

Oh and Niasse? Whoever recommended him wants hanging off the Top Balcony.

Stephen Brown
120 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:05:49
Absolutely right, Joe McMahon!

It's a bit out-dated but there's no nasty bastards in the team who won't accept being walked all over!

In fact, have any of our players ever won anything?

Digne and Mina maybe for Barca but they were hardly instrumental in this! Walcott was part of the Arsenal team with the same weaknesses!!

Jags and Baines – good players over many years but they have won nothing! All our recent signings are from relegation teams!

Jim Bennings
121 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:06:08
Yarmolenko showed us why we wanted him today, if only one of our starting players possessed that kind of left footed finish for that sumptuous second goal.

I also banged the drum for the signing of Arnautovic when we spent too much on Sigurdsson last summer.

I don’t give a shit about how consistent or inconsistent Arnautovic is or has been, every time I see him he has a big big impact, he’s strong, he’s quick, he’s basically a handful and he scores goals, how many Everton players can we say that about?

John Keating
122 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:07:08
Guys, we could have Messi and Ronaldo playing and would still lose.

This Silva is exactly the same as Martinez. We do not do defending – simple as that. We will never keep a clean sheet even when Mina is fit we are an easy touch as soon as we lose the ball.

The tactics today were shite and keeping Guye on to be our playmaker was unbelievable. The substitutions were crazy.

Get used to this because this is going to be the norm unless someone has a word with Silva.

James Stewart
123 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:08:39
Agree with Jim @103. Richarlison centre and Benard on the left.

I doubt we will see it though, I've been massively disappointed by Silva so far. Some really poor tactical setups and a major faux pas throwing Holgate in at centre-back.

Stephen Brown
124 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:10:36
Is 4-2-3-1 the new 4-4-2??

We've been playing it for years and it seems outdated and simply doesn't work! Although I'm not necessarily advocating the shocking 4-4-2 we went to today?!

Surely managers paid so much money must have more up their sleeve than just sticking with a formation that doesn't have any success??

Jim Bennings
125 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:11:06

The thing is, we have watched Koeman's teams getting ripped to shreds, we had Unsworth in the chair for over a month and the team seeped goals; even for the so-called self-styled defensive organiser, Sam Allardyce's teams conceded 5 away to Arsenal and 4 at Tottenham in the space of a month.

It's easy to label Martinez and Silva but the bigger picture is, the team –regardless who the manager is or the playing staff – just continues to make the same mistakes, year-in & year-out now.

Expect another 5-1 repeat next Sunday at Arsenal, it's a good value bet in my opinion.

Minik Hansen
126 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:15:17
As I read across the comments and agreed to the majority of them, I realised how bad we've started before with Moyes in charge and still end up around 5th-place in the Premier League. We usually started to be up and running in November.

That said, I sure as heaven hope the boys get their act together as soon as possible and Silva sorting out the starting eleven.

Moving on to the next match, with Richarlison back, we won't see Calvert-Lewin on the wing. We're crying out for Mina and Gomes – something to look forward to, albeit with just hope of them being able to set the standard up.

Jim Wilson
127 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:20:20
A worse performance than any of Big Sam's is very worrying. Silva seems clueless.

Calvert-Lewin played out of position again although the manager finally acknowledged this. More changes before and during the game, no cohesion or understanding in the play and the wheels have fallen off after 5 Premier League games.

With all the money, we have no goalscorer on the pitch, and we have to put up with someone who isn't a footballer coming on to try and salvage something.

And this manager might cost us points without a ball being kicked. Only at this clueless club of ours!

Iain Love
128 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:20:25
Richarlison central, Bernard on the left, Mina and Gomes in, we'll be right.

Sam Hoare
129 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:21:13
I have been on the fence about Tosun but increasingly he looks like more proof of the ineptitude of the previous regime's transfer credentials.

The good news is that our best performing players Richarlison, Digne, Zouma and Bernard, have all come from the new regime. Hopefully Mina and Gomes follow the same pattern.

West Ham were clinical today and we were not. I expect both teams to finish 7th-12th though our defense is a concern and I hoped for better from Holgate.

I said on the pre-match thread, I expected there to be some good days and some bad days. I had a funny feeling that today might be one of the latter. Also, I feel Arsenal could hopefully be one of the former. I think we might be due a slice of luck as well; we've had more bad than good so far this season.

Pat Whitmore
130 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:22:56
Not a single leader amongst them. Go back to the '80s: Ratcliffe, Reid, Van den Hauwe, Gray, Sharpe – all would run through a brick wall for the others.

You look at this team and none of them have an ounce of grit in them and they'll all retire millionaires several times over; the players who actually won stuff back in the day can only dream of such riches.

Barry Metcalfe
131 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:24:07
Certainly the defence (particularly the central defence) continues to be a problem; however, they were left exposed frequently by the over-attacking of the whole team.

In what seemed to be an attempt to speed up our attacking play, we became frenetic and lost our composure. This manifested in our forcing of passes and the million dollar pass is high risk. As a consequence, we turned over possession too quickly.

I would agree with many writing that we are still carrying players who don't look good enough. Further, we lack a leader or leaders in the mould of an Alan Ball, Peter Reid figure who can dictate through ability and whose presence guides others. Despite this, we did manage to create several clear scoring opportunities and I thought some of our attacking play looked pretty good but we do lack a goalscorer... how many would Lukaku have managed today?

I was unsure about Tosun and I am more of an opinion that, unfortunately, he may fall short of the level we require.

While I obviously want us to win, a defeat can be more informative for the manager and how he responds will be interesting. Many have commented on here that this year will be let's say a development period; however, going from an Allardyce style to a more front-foot style and retaining defensive strength may not be easy.

We still have players to come into the team. I was not too excited by our start and am not going to be too down at today's result. This is a work in progress.

Pat Kelly
132 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:24:18
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting worried that, if we get docked points for tapping up, it could cost us the Premier League title this season.

I'm even more worried about the upcoming game against Gor Mahia.

Paul Birmingham
133 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:28:28
Pre-season showed bad signs and the last three home games have been a struggle. In midfield, we lost the battle again today – like we did vs Huddersfield. Southampton, we scrapped through.

In my view, Digne and Bernard had a decent go; the rest looked like they couldn't be arsed. The team has no cognition and, on this showing, no spirit or stomach for a battle.

West Ham got what they deserved and no complaints from myself. Scary signs from goalkeeper to forward line, that basics are missing from this team.

Injuries aside, there's no excuse today. It was a must-win and, like so many times in the past, a team came and got their first win of the season against us. Remember the game in 1983 when Jim Arnold had a howler and let in a rugby type cross-shot and we lost against West Ham.

I can't see history being made next week and, if we take the annual good hiding, then we will be propping up the Premier League with this season's crap pack at the bottom.

Not much to say and yet again the ale tastes crap and another weekend is spoilt. I'd say patience is needed with the new manager but the defencive frailties and lack of a proper leader on the pitch and very piss-poor marking and lack of communication and covering are gifting games to poor opposition.

God help us when we play Liverpool, the Mancs, Chelsea Spurs and next week Arsenal...

One player doesn't make a team and, even with a Richarlison back, this team must learn to be a team...

I sense a good drubbing next week and even home games will soon get toxic, like in the final throws of Bobby Brown Shoes and the Klogger.

As human beings and loyal and passionate fans, a sense of patience after 28 years of internal decay and neglect is almost becoming eternal purgatory.

Hope... we live in hope... that team today gives me no genuine hope. But I'll judge after 10 games, and at Chrimbo.

Steve Croston
134 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:29:41
I don't know if I can add anything that hasn't been already said, but I feel the need to vent my spleen and then maybe I'll feel a bit better, because that was a woeful performance, truly, truly awful.

The need for a striker in January is now glaringly obvious; before today, people spoke of Tosun's ability to hold up play etc, but he is way below what we have come to expect at our once great club.

As a side note, I was doing my family's monthly finances this evening (that made me feel even worse), and as a sort of sick joke, I calculated that in the 2 weeks since our last game, Everton have probably spent somewhere in the region of £2 million on today's squad and management team's wages. 2 MILLION FUCKING QUID, and that's the best we could offer. If I didn't laugh, I'd cry.

Over to you, Marco.

Don Alexander
135 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:29:55
Under Martinez, Unswsorth, Koeman and Allardyce our players have shown themselves to be as puny and slow in mind as many of them visibly are in terms of physicality and effort. Today was just the latest disgusting example.

Just what actually happens at Finch Farm, still?

And, with genuine respect to Steve Ferns does he have any idea how long it might take Silva when coaching them to physically place each and every player in the right place/stance to do their jobs properly in the various situations that occur in a match? After all, that's what Steve reported he used to do at Hull, Watford and so on, to quick and welcome effect.

Terry Farrell
136 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:33:13
Well, that's another lucky badge that's gone in the drawer! It's okay moaning on the way home or in the pub or on here but the amount of moaning at the game is dreadful. As Darren Hind said weeks ago, particularly against the young lads.

A guy near me said early doors "Jonjoe not good enough at this level". I said it will take a year to know that. Overall he did well worked hard and put some good deliveries in. Digne is class and played ok. Poor performances elsewhere but we've all been in the bearpit and seen us win ugly.

Don't think Goodison Park can do that anymore and it upsets me. I'll probably get the response we pay our money so are entitled but so do Watford palace Brighton and any other grounds that back their teams.

Brian Harrison
137 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:36:13
I posted before the game that they carried more of a threat up front than we did. How many managers is it going to take before we stop playing Calvert-Lewin out wide? He is nowhere near the level we need, either as a wide player or a main striker.

That leads me nicely to Tosun. I have been saying for weeks this guy is a Championship forward at best and that could be insulting to some Championship strikers. He can't hold the ball up which contributed to their first goal. He has no pace so you can't play the ball over the top or down the channels as the defender will beat him to it all day long. Finally, he is also poor in the air.

I hope that is the last time I have to watch Calvert-Lewin and Tosun in this Everton side. Despite it not being a very good performance, we had chances to draw the game with 2 glorious chances spurned Tosun with a header he should have burried and Niasse in the second half.

Annoyingly we started at a high tempo with good inter-passing for the first 10 minutes. But once the goal went in our confidence and passing went awry. While Gana was his usual industrious self, his passing at times was woeful. I made a comment at the game saying, if Arnautovic had been playing for us, we would have won. Just watched on Sky were Moyes said exactly the same thing. But we all know it will take more than one transfer window to put things right; we have yet to see Mina or Gomes who will make a difference.

I thought Bernard showed some nice touches when he came on,; I am looking forward to seeing more of him in the coming weeks.We will at least have Richarlison back next week and we will need him against Arsenal. Please, Marco, play him as the main striker with Bernard on one flank and Walcott (who will surely have a point to prove) on the other.

I thought Lookman's body language was a lot better today than it was against Huddersfield and I still think he will be an asset in the coming months.

Finally I think the display today was nothing like a Koeman or Martinez side — this was a team trying to play on the front foot, but without the luxury the other two had of playing Lukaku up front compared to Tosun. If we want to compete with the top 6, then we have to play a similar game, which is a high pressing line and quick inter-passing. Remember, it's never easy to teach old dogs new tricks.

Paul Mackay
138 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:37:17
I took my young boy to his first ever game today, so I was gutted with our result and performance today.

Some positives: I thought Digne and Kenny did okay today. Coleman has been very poor this season and I think Kenny offered a lot more with his crossing and deserved his assist. Bernard looked to have a lot of quality when he came on but seems to lack match fitness as you might expect.

We really need to get Mina and Gomes into this side and also have McCarthy available.

We also need to stop playing Calvert Lewin out wide – I would have loved to have seen Dowell be given a chance on the left of midfield in Richarlison's absence.

With lots of injuries plus our new signings to get fit and into this side, I don't think we will be in a relegation fight this season but realistically I can't see any better than mid-table with this squad.

Eric Paul
139 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:42:46
I think our new coach should be given time to sort the mess he has inherited but he should have noticed the gap between the defence and midfield was too big and the gap between midfield and attack was too small except when we scored.
Minik Hansen
140 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:48:22
If Sigurdsson's freekicks had hit the goal (on another day), attackers being more clinical (with maybe Richarlison on the side), defense more solid (Mina, Keane, Jags who knows), it could have been a very much different story. It needs to click in the next game.
Paul Mackay
141 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:50:46
Tony (#60),

Please stop this nonsense that Pickford is too small. He's taller than Peter Shilton and the same height as Gordon Banks. Two of the greatest goalkeepers of all time. Oh, and goal posts are the same size.

Our poor form this season has not been attributed to Pickford.

For me, he's still the first name on the sheet and considerably better than any other keeper at our club (and Robles who left). He saved so many points for us last season.

Tony Everan
142 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:53:01
Atrocious indeed, some of our regulars are just not good enough. I've seen some dross over the last few years but jeez, the passing today, goodness me, the basics weren't even Sunday League standard.

Gana Gueye was totally unable to pass it to a blue shirt and a few more weren't far behind. Why are the simple things being done wrong? Are they bamboozled by the system they are meant to be playing or just not good enough?

The standard of finishing was shocking, Tosun works hard, blah blah — we bought him to burst the onion bag. From what I can see, he is not a long-term solution at all. Not top 6 or top 4 standard. Niasse should have been sold, he is an octopus in a washing machine. Not a footballer.

I could rant on about most of the others, Pickford, is he still watching YouTube reruns of his legendary World Cup save? Forget all that half-baked rubbish and focus on Everton.

Can I ask you a question? Would we have won that match with Lukaku up front on his own? I reckon he would have had a hat-trick today.

It's a fucking disgrace that without Richarlison we look like bottom-six fodder.

Alan McGuffog
143 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:53:29
I used to get annoyed thinking “how many of our team would get on the bench for one of the top six?” Now I wonder how many would get a regular start for ANY of the other Premier League sides.

Another wee gripe. Next time we have a few bob to spend on players, would it be unreasonable to expect us to buy players who are fit and ready to do the job? When for example will the long-pursued Mina actually break sweat

So add a points reduction to our less than scintillating form and it'll be a long hard season. As per feckin usual!

Andy Crooks
144 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:55:41
Don, is this the first "Steve Ferns out" post? Just joking Steve. Silva has a job on his hands but we have been well short of full strength. Tosun, sadly, does not look like a player who needs a goal to open the floodgates; he looks as though he doesn't have a goal in him. Calvert-Lewin is a million miles short of being a Premier League striker.

Niasse, well, he is an example of just how low our expectations are. He is admired, God almighty, because he tries.... Because he fucking tries!!

Can you imagine Calvert-Lewin, Tosun or Niasse in a Liverpool shirt? Or, in fact in the shirt of any other team in the Premier League bar Cardiff? They are not unlucky, out of form or shot of confidence. They are utterly fucking useless.

I overrated Tosun on another thread and described him as an enabler. He is, just not in the way I thought. He enables the rest of them to show just how lamentable they are.

Ian Riley
145 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:56:12
The squad is simply not good enough to mount a challenge for top six. When I read fellow Evertonians considering us for top four... either too much at the local pub pre match or medication is required. Out of our squad, at least five players would get into top six Premier League squads.

Sadly, we are as far away from top four than we were under David Moyes. Why? Who are the players who have the desire or balls to tell other players to pull their socks up? Look at West Ham. Noble offers little in ability but he has the club in his heart and is a West Ham fan.

Until Silva reviews previous performances with Gueye and Schneiderlin, and sees they are not good enough, how long till the penny drops? Carsley and Gravesen offered more protection for the back four.

No complaints over the defence today. They were left exposed by our two holding midfielders.

Bringing on Niasse for Tosun made me laugh as I don't see both getting 20 goals between them all season. West Bromwich Albion have a better strike force. Yes it's true. Yes they are isolated during games but today they missed sitters! Our wing play got better but through the middle we were never going to create.

After five games, let's not press the panic button. We still have players to come in but desire must be questioned by certain players. Too many experienced players go missing or simply are not good enough. Mr Silva has a lot to think about.

David Connor
146 Posted 16/09/2018 at 20:58:04
I've said it for years now. Piss poor squads get piss poor results... and this squad is absolutely piss poor. At least seven need moving on sharpish, even if we only bring three quality signings in their place, the squad will have improved overall.

Looks like another crap long season already, folks, unless we get our crocks fit and up to speed very quickly. But we know that probably won't happen. This is the Everton Way...

Mike Oates
147 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:02:24
The worry for me was the lack of any shape or job responsibility at all. I thought Schneiderlin's job was to protect the back 4, and our two centre-halves need all the help they can get, particularly when the full-backs bomb forward and leave them exposed as in the 1st and 2nd goals.

I thought Gueye's job was to win the ball and give it to a creative player, not continually give it to an opponent.

I thought Tosun's job was to hold it up, then put away his chances, not to get overpowered, outpaced, outfought and then MISS all his chances.

Just don't mention Holgate, the lad will never make it as a centre-half nor a fullback nor a Premier League player. Zouma has enough experience to run the defence but didn't control a thing. Pickford as England's No 1 should surely instruct his centre-halves what to do, where to be, it's was like a comedy show at times at the back.

I fear that Silva hasn't got a clue how to set up a defence, and to appease the crowds he throws on 6 attackers to demonstrate we are an attacking team, even though the opposition are on top, we are under the cosh and they will always score more than we do.

It's a complete shambles at the moment and I'm not sure Mina and Gomes will be able to stop the flow of goals against us.

Richarlison and Bernard will create and score but we have no defensive strong midfielder capable of protecting that porous defence.

Tony Marsh
148 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:02:54
Jim @ 127,

Spot on mate. As you say only at this club of ours. I think this losing mentality stems right back to the Moyes years where everyone at the club got programmed into the 'plucky little Everton' 'we should know our place' mindset.

5 years on from Moyes and we still as a club can not shake the Guns to a knife fight mentality. If everyone was fit today there could possibly have been a chance that 3 of the Moyes back 4 in 2010 could've played today and that is frightening.

Pickford is looking like the keeper who helped relegate Sunderland. Piss poor all season and will soon lose his England spot. Theo Walcott is looking every bit the player who couldn't get a game for an average Arsenal side. Tosun looks like an average player from an average team in the average Turkish league. Calvert-Lewin looks like an average Championship player, etc etc etc.

The whole set up at EFC reeks of average being the acceptable norm. Players, managers, CEOs, Chairman, Sponsors, retail outlets, stadium plans — you name it Everton FC do it in a very average way.

Unless we rid every possible reminiscence of the past from the club, then we shall continue along this bumpy road for years. Maybe if Usmanov comes in we shall be saved but with Moshiri and Kenwright running the show then I'm afraid it's more of the same.

Get used to sucking it up and wallowing in bullshit. Take it on the chin that Everton is still and always will be the go-to club when you're an out-of-form striker or a club in poor form.

Everton FC always have been consistent when it comes to rolling over and having our bellies tickled. Today was classic Everton. I've seen this shit so many times before in the past and no doubt more times to come in the future... Worrying times ahead.

William Gall
149 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:06:52
I have to agree with the comments that this is a rebuilding season and we have to give the manager time to get his new signings in for a number of games before judging him. However, this should not excuse poor performances like this, as the players must realize that they are playing for their places, and not filling in till the other players are fit.

The manager should also share the responsibility, for playing players out of position, and waiting so long to replace poor performances. Substitutes are there for replacing injured players but they are also there to replace poor performers and not waiting until you are chasing the game.

Marlan Govender
150 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:07:20
West Ham were playing 5 in midfield compared to our 4-2-3-1 formation. Our out-of-form midfielders had no chance – especially with our full-backs battling to get back and defend. I cannot think of any leaders in our team at the moment. Gylfi????
Dave Lynch
151 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:07:55
I stated on here a few weeks ago that Calvert-Lewin was nowhere near Premier League material and got rounded on by some posters.

Today, against the bottom side, only reaffirmed that belief: he was woeful.

Small matter of Arsenal next and we all know what a great record we have against them away.

If they click properly, it will be a mauling.

Phillip Warrington
152 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:12:46
False dawn or hick-up, once again, we fail with football basics, hesitation and panicking with our final ball whether it be passing or finishing.

Teams do not fear Everton; there is no steel in the team, teams know if they get on top of Everton, they win.

I used to see Everton teams in the past, if we were 2 goals down with ten minutes to go, you would think "Hey, shit, we've still got a chance here, the players are giving their all and seem to give a shit".

Now, as soon as a team gets on top of Everton and scores, we're beaten.

John Keating
153 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:14:26

I can't argue that our players are just not good enough. However, where are those who have been saying that we do indeed have good players but just need the right coach to get them to show it?

Silva did indeed inherit a lot of dross and some are still here, unfortunately.

Steve and other Silva officianadoes told us from day one we would see Silvas stamp on the players, team, set up, shape and tactics.

I admit we have to pick out individual players and their mistakes but we also have to look at Silva and his mistakes thus far, and there's been enough of them.

Game management is non-existent, Wolves and Bournemouth. Substitutions, well only he knows the reason behind some of them. Tactics, today: non-existent unless we say the gung-ho play using 4-4-2 is what he's about.

Steve reckons Silva is not for changing. I just hope he's wrong and he does because, if he continues as he has done in the short few pre-season games and since then, we could be posting the same things in two years time — just before he gets sacked.

Minik Hansen
154 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:14:55
People saying relegation form, I believe we are better than that. With the afforementioned points made on an other day, we would have bashed 'em. Looking so much forward to next week.
Pat Kelly
155 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:16:50
Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, and Niasse... realistically, how many goals will they get between them for the rest of the season???

And you can't get a decent striker in January. This is the stark reality — never mind having to sort out the defence and find a midfield.

Tom McEwan
156 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:20:29
Blimey, some massive turnarounds from the 'believers' here and after only one defeat! Some people have even used the word, 'shite'. 'Surely we are better than that' aren't we?
Mike Powell
157 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:22:37
I have been saying for ages that Calvert-Lewin, Tosun, Holgate, and Kenny are just not good enough, but people keep making excuses for them. We will not win a thing with players like this in our team.

This was West Ham — who have lost their first four games!!! I think that says it all...

Pat Kelly
158 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:22:41
Tom, you don't sound very convinced. Yes, only one defeat, but the manner of it. And against the lowest team.
Daz Jones
159 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:27:44
Silvas tactics today were absolutely dreadful and to all true blues, should be very worrying indeed.

Calvert-Lewin on the wing again. Didn't work last season... why should it work, this?

Tosun upfront on his own again? No goals this season yet and all the responsibility on his shoulders.

Lookman again benched, Bernard benched again, Calvert-Lewinin midfield... do I need to go on?

When we look at Liverpool and we see a front three that'll smash anyone who doesn't play to their best every week, then you see us with Tosan, Calvert-Lewin and Niasse to choose from... we have no hope in hell of ever finishing higher than 7th in the Premier League.

The quality of the squad is poor, and Silva has got one hell of a job to get us into that top six. Martinez Mk 2 springs to mind...

Moyes was wrong when he said he was just a decent striker away from a shot at the title, but by hell he could have had a good go at the top four more than he did. I for one loved Moyes every season he was here, and would take him back right now.

It's gunna be a long hard season, guys...

Paul Mackay
160 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:31:58
Colin (#109),

Zero for Bernard? Did you have a few beers at the game too?

Kevin Tully
161 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:35:11
Can't understand it meself. We've got the best academy players in the whole wide world, the best tactical magician, in the whole wide world, and best of of all, the finest tactical minds who only get off the worst tealeaves in Liverpool Crown Court tomorrow.

Good job one feller knows exactly what the manager is thinking tonight. Maybe the finest legal minds can tell us what's going on? 'Cos I never had a jar of glue why the the boys in blue thought tackling was a crime?

I've learnt what people do for a living. I've learnt that some people are religious. I've also learnt that many, many people could be sold a pension plan that's worthless. I'm in the wrong game. (Painter - atheist, not much education. Left school at 15, but generally happy)

Danny Baily
162 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:35:56
Better decision making on the sidelines would have made a big difference today. It's a good squad that shouldn't have any problem staying up this season.

If we continue to be this poor defensively when we have a full complement of players available, it will be inexcusable.

Gary Carter
163 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:37:57
I really don't know where all the shock is. Let's get one thing clear straight away, the squad is not that bad, it's top 8.

Now let's clarify something very basic.

Liverpool appointed a manager who wins games, his teams play with a purpose and direction, score goals, don't concede many and they challenge for titles and trophies, albeit in the German league. No surprise he replicated that in England.

We appoint a manager whose teams playing in the Premier League don't score many goals, concede a lot of goals, don't play with a purpose, and end up in the bottom 3-5. He then comes to Everton and replicates that — where's the surprise exactly????

If you sign successful managers and players, you get success. If you sign managers and players that languish around the bottom of the league, guess what, you end up languishing at the bottom of the league. Silva is an even worse appointment than Martinez was despite this myth about him being a top coach. It's unbelievable we appointed him!

Dave Abrahams
164 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:40:40
I will be patient until all the new signings have settled into the team and see how we perform then. The worrying thing about the last two games is that the system used by the manager has been worst than the performances of the players.

There are no leaders in the team, not one really decent central midfield player, who can dominate that part of the field (not counting unfit players), not a striker, at the moment, who inspires confidence, they will score consistently.

Why did it take Silva seventy minutes to decide that Tosun going to do anything positive, weren't the two good chances he spurned in the first half enough evidence?

Only the two full backs had good games, while Bernard looks like he will cause problems in the future. I'm not getting too depressed yet, but the doubts are creeping in.

Jay Tee
165 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:46:38
We are still too slow getting to the opposition goal. Their first goal I think was 3 passes, the second was Pickford then 1 pass and in, the third was around 3 passes as well (I'm not going to watch MotD to check).

We go forward, stop, sideways and sideways again and again, then to the middle, then the wing, then towards the corner, back to the goalie, and then mis-pass it to the opposition.

Ernie Baywood
166 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:49:16
I went against the grain on a few of the earlier threads this season to say that there was far too much praise being heaped on this team. The games we'd played against Wolves, Southampton and Bournemouth were pretty close to the scripts for the last couple of years. Then we lose Richarlison and the last two league games have very much gone to script.

I'll go against the grain again. We should still be excited. Not because we're suddenly going to challenge for the top 4... but because the club is getting it's act together. We're continuing to invest. We have a real DoF. We signed a coach aligned to the DoF. We're signing players in the positions we need, who suit the style being promoted by the DoF and coach.

When you make a huge organisational change, you typically go backwards before moving forwards.

Of course that doesn't stop us being disappointed with the performance today. The personnel isn't yet that different but we still managed to trounce West Ham last season. We desperately need Richarlison back for some cutting edge — Tosun, for all his effort, hasn't yet looked like providing that.

John Keating
167 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:53:49

It's all well and good waiting for these players to come in but who's to say when that might be and if injuries and suspensions will allow them to play together.

When you look at good managers we've had and we can go back to Carey and Catterick, they worked the system around the players they had.

Since before coming here, Silva has decided to play a certain system. Pre-season failed miserably to get the players we have to work this system. We have played half-a-dozen first-class games and still no sign of this shower operating this mythical system.

Either Silva adapts to the players he presently has or we put up with these embarrassments for the 3 seasons it will take for him to get a completely new squad that understands what he wants.

I don't think Silva will or can change and can see us struggling every game.

Clive Rogers
169 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:56:46
Calvert-Lewin will never make a Premier League footballer. He's a good athlete with pace, but has no real football ability. He can't control the ball, runs into trouble and basically doesn't really understand the game.
Rob B Williams
170 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:57:24
Someone behind me called him 'Sylvanus' – the ass-hole.

Paul Mackay
171 Posted 16/09/2018 at 21:59:03
Does anyone know if Tosun played as a lone striker in Turkey or as part of a front pairing? I don't think he is quick enough to play In a front three (as a lone striker with a wide pair and No 10). He would probably play better in a front two where he can play off someone.

He wasn't great today but has played some good games for us. So I'll reserve judgement on him until we get through this season.

Mike Moore
172 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:02:51
It looks to me like he's basing all of his hopes on Richarlison. Worrying there doesn't appear to be an undue concern over the state of the back four.

First couple of games with Richarlison in the side along with Walcott and Sigurdsson as a three we looked a proper threat; without him we look toothless and pedestrian. Bernard could be anything but why we didn't go and buy a striker (personal opinion I'd have gone for Welbeck) I'll never know. Tosun works very hard but he's never a 20 goal a season merchant.

Despite all of this the obvious worry is the defence which shits itself every time the ball comes near the 18-yard box, you can drill players in zonal marking (or not as the case might be) all you want but if they're devoid of ability and/or confidence then you're fucked. Mina is our last hope to breed some much-needed strength and fight.

All the real optimism of the first two games is fading fast

Colin Glassar
173 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:03:40
Paul @160, I think he'll come good but he looked a complete lightweight today and chickened out of every 50-50 ball. He was, IMO, just the worst out of a very bad bunch.
Pat Kelly
174 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:04:11
We should use Tosun as a loan striker. If anyone would take him.
Tom McEwan
175 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:04:30
Kevin Tully @161 and 168, in your own words, you did not have 'much education' but you certainly know how to hit a nail on the head!
Jim Bennings
176 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:06:22
Paul at 171,

Regardless whether he's played there for Turkey or not, the Premier League is a completely different ball game where centre halves bully you and get close to you.

Tosun hasn't got the capability to bully them or the pace to make enough telling runs to get away from them; today he can't bemoan a lack of service because he's had glorious chances and done nowt with any of them.

In the modern era today you need big physical specimens like what West Ham had in Arnautovic, strong physical men, quick and decisive that have defenders back-pedalling.

If you are small then you need a majestic turn of foot and great close control like David Silva, Coutinho (maybe Bernard for us?)

Tosun just doesn't cut the mustard at this level.

Clive Rogers
177 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:06:28
Paul, #171, he has lost confidence now and I expect to see Richarlison in his place next week with Bernard on the left wing. He lacks pace for the Premier League.
Paul ONeill
178 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:09:18
Since day one of the season – and even pre-season – I've had a maggot on the brain, eating at me and saying, ‘Martinez Mk II'. I so hope I'm wrong.
Andy Williams
179 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:09:18
Colin, it just shows how much we all differ in our reading of a game. I thought Bernard was by far the brightest spark we had today.
Richard Grey
180 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:10:25
Digne was by far our best player and I feel sorry for him to have come into such a poor side. We desperately lack a ball-playing midfielder (I hate to say it, but the game was crying out for a Ross Barkley today), but even then we have no one bar Richarlison (and sometimes Walcott or Calvert-Lewin who can stick it in the net!

It seems as though we have strengthened some areas that we were lacking last season, but then other areas have lapsed (with Pickford, Holgate, Coleman, Tosun, Gueye losing form).

We need to get back to basics and find a consistent back 4 and get our best players (whoever they are) into the team. We look dangerous with Richarlison; if he can strike up a partnership with Bernard then we might begin to play some decent stuff.

We have to stop leaking goals though, we were so loose at the back today it was scary. Holgate has gone backwards in his development worryingly quickly and the sooner we can get Mina in this team the better.

The team today was pretty much a Big Sam XI without the negativity, but without any idea of how to attack or defend either! I thought Silva's style was a high press and fast attacks... I haven't seen that since the Wolves game :/

Pat Kelly
181 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:13:54
Yes, Bernard will be a gem. Refreshing to see someone in blue beat a player and pass the ball to a teammate. He has quality written all over him. As does Richarlison and Digne, especially given they've only played a wet week or two. So some positivity, albeit limited.
Brian Dalton
182 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:18:00
We must be the most physically weak team in the Premier League. We have scraped 4 points out of Southampton, Huddersfield and West Ham at home so far.

Don't panic though – we only have to wait about 72 hours until one of the losers in our squad comes out to tell us the players are hurting and they know they let the fans down etc.

Kevin Tully
183 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:18:30
Cheers, Tom.

I'll be doing my 'tactical deconstructionist revisionistly can't tackle for toffee never played the game' tomorrow.

It'll be riveting.

Rob B Williams
184 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:23:29
Digne was the best on the pitch today, and Bernard gives hope for the future, but I fear that, because of his size, he will be knocked off the ball far too easily – however, he did show a nice little mean streak towards the end of the match.

Can't wait for all our new signings to get on the pitch – if I can stay patient that long!!

Mike Oates
186 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:27:43
He's dumped the high press as he can't push too many forward as it will expose his fragile defence, as happened for their first goal today. One misplaced pass and 10 secs later West Ham scores.

Jags and Keane – who are both too slow and prefer to drop off and don't give space behind, or the pair at the moment Holgate and Zouma who are respectively lightweight and poor positionally.

We have to hope Mina and Zouma / Keane develop a good relationship but I've a feeling Mina will be slow. I can't imagine a 6ft-6in giant being fast.

David Graves
187 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:28:33
Kevin @ 161 - laughed at your original comment which after reading through the previous 160 comments came as a welcome distraction! Be careful with that in-depth analysis though. You may become the new tactical guru and I get the impression that’s the last thing you’d want!
Mike Doyle
190 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:42:59
Assuming Big Sam is still being paid the remaining 12 months of his contract, I assume he can be brought back from his “gardening leave” at fairly short notice?
Ray Griffin
191 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:44:48
Right, let's start at the back:

Pickford – believes the current hype that goalkeepers are Premier League footballers; they're not and he's not... concentrate on preventing goals.

Holgate – looked like a schoolboy player up against adults, constantly outmuscled & without the savvy to compete against any sort of physicality.

Zouma – can't distribute the ball, slow to read threats & basically a poor.

Kenny – not a Premier League player

Schneiderlin – utterly incompetent, slow, no vision, can't tackle or pass the ball. Looks totally devoid of confidence, very surprised he wasn't sold when Silva took over.

Sigurdsson – seems to be incapable of being a central midfielder who can dictate the running of a game, doesn't fancy mixing it.

Walcott – chose the wrong decision constantly, too lightweight, nowhere near enough energy or passion, desperate display.

Calvert-Lewin – should be playing in the Championship.

Tosun – lacks composure, poor decision-making, messed up even the basic centre-forward skill, heading a good cross down and past the goalkeeper.

Gueye – gets around the pitch, makes good tackles but lacks any creativity.

Niasse – sell him in January

Jim Bennings
194 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:51:50
Agree with Jenas on MOTD tonight.

The cash we’ve pissed away and we still haven’t got a top class striker!

Sigurdsson £45 million

Schneiderlin £24 million

Tosun £27 million

Pretty cringeworthy really isn’t it.

Mike Dolan
195 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:54:31
Obviously a disappointing result but I thought we played well at times. All three goals could have been avoided and we created some great chances to score ourselves.

Not good enough... certainly. End of the world? That was last season. Have a little faith and wait until our first team gets a run out.

Sam Hoare
196 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:54:42
Please don't mention the thought of bringing Big Sam back, even in jest!!

West Ham have clearly got some decent players and were bound to do better at some point. Naturally that point turned out to be today. Even so, if we'd had a striker in decent form, we still might have drawn or even won that game. We created a hatful of chances.

Better days ahead. I remain optimistic. If marginally less so.

Brian Wilkinson
197 Posted 16/09/2018 at 22:55:38
Out of all our midfield, when fit, I would have McCarthy as an automatic first choice, I have yet to see any of our midfield match McCarthy for passing and tackling.

he only other close enough for me is also injured, Baningime. If we can get those two back into our team that will make a big difference.

Let's hope Mina is fit for the next game, along with Richarlison back playing more central, with Bernard taking the left-side spot.

Chris Jenkins
198 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:00:51
Today's performance was an absolute shambles. The rationale for appointing Marco Silva as manager absolutely beggars belief. His win ratio does not stand up to close examination and his tactics are highly questionable.

Much more of what we've had to endure so far this season will hopefully lead to his quick dismissal – he must be gone no later than the end of October.

Make no mistake, the shadow of a relegation battle will be very much in evidence after the next few matches if Silva remains in post.

Just hope that David Moyes is reappointed quickly – the only decent manager we've had in the last 15 years – compare his record with that of Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, and now Silva.

Moyes performed miracles with next to nothing in the way of financial resources whilst his successors have managed to squander hundreds of millions.

Dave Bowen
199 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:02:01
Richard @ #180. We do have a ball-playing midfielder, in Gylfi, but we can't seem to find a way to get him either into the game or even on the ball. That being said, we had enough chances to take something from the game today; however, without Richarlison, we are powderpuff up front.

Tosun looks completely out of touch. Calvert-Lewin (who I don't rate) would have buried that header at 1-0. If Calvert-Lewin plays, it has to be centrally to make use of his aerial ability (his touch is too poor anywhere else.)

As for Holgate, did he have concrete boots on? He makes Keane look rapid. Still, I liked the look of Bernard and Digne.

Karl Meighan
200 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:03:05
I don't understand playing a striker wide left when Lookman and Bernhard who play out wide are sitting on the bench. If a striker is going to play out wide then why didn't he just sell Lookman?

Three managers have tried the same nonesense; same thing with Gana and Schniederlin – no need for both of them to play at home if at all given they offer nothing in the final third. Let's be honest, with two midfielders, Gana and Calvert-Lewin, unable to pass a ball 10 yards and Walcott's passing hit and miss, we won't be winning many games.

The other thing that amazed me was Sigurdsson's free-kick – it hit the wall midriff height, yet our players seem to think it's a good idea to let him take the next in a dangerous position around their box.

The best thing I can say about today's defending is we didn't concede many corners as we know what happens there.

Steve Ferns
203 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:10:43
Some on here seem to revel in the misery. The manager is shite, the players are shite, the tactics were shite, it's all shite.

Digne was the only one who seemed to get away without criticism. Sure, he was good going forwards, but the first goal was Gueye's fault, but Digne was badly out of position. The second goal was Pickford's fault but Digne involved again. And we're two down purely due to ridiculous player errors.

Then Silva fucked up. He went 4-4-2, like so many want, and showed why it never works anymore. He played Gueye as a single defensive midfielder and showed why he should never play the role singularly. Sigurdsson played deeper second half and showed why he shouldn't.

Now some of you want to cut Richarlison's legs off and play him up top centrally. What, so he's back to goal and unable to run at defenders. He has to play on the left of a front three so he can get the ball to feet, so he can run at defenders, and into space. You don't hear the kopites ever screaming for Salah to play central. It's the same deal. They both play up top, just off the forward.

I said on Friday, we needed to sit back and counter-attack them. They did it to us. They played like a team that had to win. We played like a team that couldn't be arsed. Sure, blame the manager for that.

As for the team that started, that's the team that had to start. The incredible sulk had yet another cameo, did he even touch the ball? So how can he have started? Bernard wasn't ready. He'll be more ready for Arsenal, but Richarlison is back.

Fifth game, fifth different back four. Again, enforced changes. They only trained together for two days. But yeah, they're meant to play like they've always played together.

Kevin, how's about you create something constructive that takes you over five hours and then I'll have the easy task of just sniping at what you said. Easier to throw stones than to build the greenhouse.

Don Alexander
204 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:21:10
Steve Ferns, genuinely because I don't know Silva like you do, how long did it take him to coach/show the Hull and Watford players how to achieve the marked improvements that was way better than what they'd showed before he arrived?

I only ask because if he fails to match it with us it'll be down to the players as far as I'm concerned, together with the brain-melt miasma that seems a speciality of those who've "coached" at Finch Farm for years.

Tom McEwan
205 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:30:26
Any building depends on the foundations Steve @203. You set yourself up as a 'tactical genius' by doing the threads and you welcome the praise from other posters when they agree with you. So, please don't whinge when people have a dig at credentials that may not warrant such a label.

See what I did there with the 'dig' and 'foundations' thing? Aren't I clever?

Brian Dalton
206 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:32:12
Can someone please explain this obsession we have with playing Calvert-Lewin out wide? He's not good enough to be playing at this level in his natural position – let alone playing him out of position.

Brian Dalton
207 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:39:10
Steve @203 — did you ever consider Liverpool fans aren't calling for Salah to play central because the guy playing central scored 27 goals for them last season? Maybe they would want him in the centre if the options for them were Tosun, Niasse or Calvert-Lewin.
Steve Ferns
208 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:47:27
Don, he hit the ground running at every club he's managed before winning games and getting off to a good start. Hull he had a very tough run of games to start with and picked up points he shouldn't have, but he did lose games. Olympiacos, Sporting, Estoril ant Watford he was very quick out of the blocks.

Tom, I never said I was a tactical genius or set myself up as such. People wanted me to expand on things so I did. It's up to you if you want to read it. By being mark tactics it meant you can have a tactical discussion without people who don't want to discuss tactics having to read it.

Anthony Murphy
209 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:50:25
Me and my fellow blues in work had our doubts mid-week about today and so it proved to be. Everton have a knack of finishing poor runs for the opposition.

It was a nap that Yarmelenko was going to grab the headlines after our attempts to sign him and when they announced it was Pellegrini's birthday... well, that was it.

After pulling a goal back, I thought we would dominate the second half and at least grab an equaliser, but we lacked leaders out there today. We seemed to lack a vocal presence or someone the fans single out as having the same desire and heart as them – a Cahill or Reid type.

Dissapointing, but give the manager a chance to bed in his tactics and summer recruits.

David Graves
210 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:53:40
West Ham hadn't won a game and were heading towards their worst-ever start to a campaign. Their manager was under massive pressure having spend massively yet we needed to sit back and counter attack?

Can't disagree more. What we needed to do was play like we actually knew each other; that we had a plan to counter the obvious threat from their front three and that when we had possession there was movement on and off the ball.

Silva's (so far) inability to get anything out of the midfield 3 is a massive concern. That, alongside the shambolic defending, means that he is going to have to live up to the hype around his coaching ability that preceded his arrival.

Karl Meighan
211 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:53:43
@203 – wasn't it Tosun who gave the ball away for the first?

I like Gueye but thought he was poor today and, by the way, you can start with players and take them off if they fade – couldn't Baines have played right-back?

Calvert-Lewin can hardly play as a striker so to repeat what other sacked managers have done makes little sense. I think I would sulk if a striker was playing in my position having been stopped from leaving at all costs, from the sound of things.

John Austin
212 Posted 16/09/2018 at 23:55:40
Colin @109. Your first 5 words sum it all up for me. Spot on. The most spineless performance I have seen for a very long time.

West Ham were stronger, fitter and more determined in every position. We made them look a very good team. We were consistently knocked off the ball and were second best in every area. The passing was dreadful and the least said about marking the opposing player, the better.

l could go on about individual players but would be here all night. I know most of the starting eleven are not Silva's players but surely he has to take responsibility for the organisation, attitude and commitment.

We have no leaders on the pitch. I do disagree with you however on Bernard. I thought he did well. But it's only Arsenal away next week so no worries!

Si Cooper
214 Posted 16/09/2018 at 00:00:28
As has sadly become common, some shocking over reaction in some of the posts. Just as we weren't suddenly top 4 hopefuls, neither have we become relegation certainties.

My view of the game chimes with the detailed analysis given on MotD (doesn't happen that often) relating to the opposing midfields, and I disagree with the superficial summary proposed by the shower on Sky (where is Gary Neville when you need him?). Nothing to do with gender but Alex Scott is a waste of a pundits chair, and Moyes and Bellamy were equally (and surprisingly) vapid.

You can't blame Digne for being upfield for their first. He was doing as instructed and had found acres of space. Simply not his fault that Gana played a ridiculous ball to an isolated Tosun who already had the defender attached. Sigurdsson, Gana and Schneiderlin all under-performed.

Sigurdsson's main failing was not being involved enough. Instead, the bulk of the distribution was left to / taken on by Gana who doesn't have the skill for the stuff that requires absolute precision and timing. Schneiderlin was not able to protect the defence in the way he had obviously been detailed to do, though he was given some tricky stuff to react to.

I think the substitution made sense as an attempt to get Sigurdsson more involved but he just isn't quick enough for this level. He is a luxury player we haven't got a place for unless we can get the two other ‘central' midfielders to provide the effective tackling and consistent distribution we require in that part of the pitch.

I hate to have a go at Gana because he'll always give 100%, but he was really poor today and probably the biggest disappointment.

I don't think Pickford did anything wrong apart from the terrible pass that gifted them the opportunity for their second. Digne and Zouma were always playing catch-up and Yarmolenko had the quality to make the most of it.

Bernard looked good; fast feet, simple options and competing to win the ball back. I don't think Lookman looked indifferent, just that the game had already slipped away from us by the time he came on.

Steve Ferns
215 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:06:42
Karl, as Si says above, it was Gueyes hospital pass to Tosun that caused the turnover in play. I can't see how you can blame anyone but him.

To his credit, Gueye stood up to be counted, he got on the ball and tried to make things happen. He's just not good enough and was really having an off-day.

This is football though, the Premier League, you can have bad days. Happens to every team. Everyone can beat everyone. No need to go on like we just lost to Shrewsbury in the Cup.

I can't believe someone wants Moyes back in immediately. Oh dear...

Lawrence Green
216 Posted 16/09/2018 at 00:09:14
To twist a favourite saying of dieticians, you are what you buy and Everton FC have bought some god awful lightweights both physically and mentally in the last few years.

How many clubs of Everton's size and resources would be relying on a number of inexperienced 20-year-olds in key positions on a regular basis? How many clubs of Everton's size would be hoping that Niasse would turn out to be a prolific striker or expecting Tosun to be a Drogba type? I said when we signed Tosun that he could not and should not be expected to lead the line as he's more of an inside forward who needs a partner to help him create space, unfortunately he also seems to have forgotten where the goal is when presented with gilt-edged chances.

Today's performance from Everton, didn't come as a shock; what does come as a shock is that West Ham had up front the type of players we should be able to attract to Goodison, the Hammers may have lost their previous four matches this season but they had a plan, a system, a belief, a work ethic and a threat which their forwards exploited ruthlessly. Everton should be capable of replicating most of those basics but for some unknown reason cannot and have not for far too long.

Will somebody please remind Moshiri and company that Everton is a football club that should be competing with all others in the Premier League. Not a project, not a family, not a safe haven for self-indulgent footballers who are only passing through. It's nice to be nice but it's even nicer to be winners.

Myself and many others are getting tired of waiting to see an Everton side that has a coherent system, a team that has all of its available players utilised in roles that they are best suited and see eleven players who won't accept passengers in the side for any amount of time, nevermind for long periods during games. No Everton team should be giving up the game with half-an-hour to play and today isn't the first time that's happened in the recent past.

Rome wasn't built in a day and nobody is expecting to see Everton challenge the best in the Premier League anytime soon, but to only have six points on the board from five relatively kind fixtures and, with a defence likely to concede under the least amount of pressure, and an attack mis-firing regularly in front of goal at the other end, is a recipe for another wasted season.

Of course, it's very early in the season and the new boss should be given time, if in three months time nothing has changed, we'll be back to where we were under Martinez, Allardyce, and Koeman – just a little bit older and a few bob poorer and with no signs of real progress.

The League Cup takes on greater importance with each passing Premier League game!

Jamie Crowley
217 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:09:52
I feel a knee-jerk reaction to defend Silva, what with all the Martinez sequel comments.

I can't.

That was awful.

I think this season, while Silva finds his feet, we're in for a rollercoaster ride. Some performances where we look world-beaters, others where we look relegation fodder.

Today was the latter.

Jay Harris
218 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:10:09
We change the managers, change the players and the same problems remain.

We can't score goals and we can't stop leaking them.

Attitudes need to change. We need a couple of Peter Reid or Pat van den Hauwe types to shake the others out of their slumbers.

We are too nice a club. We let players wimp out of challenges without reprimand. We let referees get away with awful decisions without barracking them, and we are generally too nice.

Add to that we have no centre-forward since Lukaku left and our midfield consists of three fairies, so it's not difficult to see where improvements can come.

Plus we could have complimentary beer to liven the crowd up. Support has never been as bad as this.

Jamie Crowley
219 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:13:27

I think your second-to-last paragraph sums it up. We desperately need a striker.

Two of their goals (I believe) were down to players playing a ball into Cenk, and he gave away possession springing a counter-attack. Even if the above is incorrect (can't be bothered to go back and look), he absolutely played awful and conceded possession resulting in the ball coming back at us in a very dangerous way.

I've loved Cenk up and to this game. Today showed all his shortcomings.

We need a quality striker in.

Justin Doone
221 Posted 16/09/2018 at 00:18:14
Just to restate I didn't want Silva but him over Sam any day. I have hope that we can improve and are creating chances but like Martinez (and the majority of all coaches) they expect players to adapt to their beliefs and traits not the other way around.

Silva's naivety in believing he can make players fit the system and over-confidence in the players; his style and tactics mean little time is spent understanding opponents' strengths and weaknesses.

It's great to have two attacking fullbacks but the teams own lack of pace and cover against long balls and swift counter-attacks are easily exposed by the opposition. Mina will not fix this issue.

Holgate is our only centre-back with any real pace and the lack of understanding between defence and midfield is a worry and will take time to overcome. I would change to a 3-5-2 to help address our defensive issues and strengthen midfield.

Richarlison would be wasted played centrally up-front. He's the main creator and we would loose the pace, trickery and work rate he brings to help close players down and offer an outlet for our limited passing ability of the defence and central midfielders.

Whichever formation, ditch Schneiderlin permanently, start with Calvert-Lewin up-top, Lookman to start ahead of Walcott, and keep Richarlison in that floating left-forward role.

Jay Wood

222 Posted 16/09/2018 at 00:20:00
Steve Ferns, you know full well I'm no acolyte or sycophant and that I don't always agree with your tactical analysis you are so passionate - and thorough - in sharing on TW.

Sadly, as this thread is demonstrating, your posting syle does make you a soft target for some. Usually, it comes from those who actually contribute little or nothing to the debate on the football itself. In many cases, it is little more than resentment at what you 'do' and personal sniping.

As far as I'm aware, no one is under any sort of obligation to read a particular poster or any of their content. If a TW member doesn't care for the views, the content, or how another poster writes, they can make a unilateral decision for themselves: to recognise the name and pass over their posts.

In summary Steve, keep posting however you deem fit. Expressing YOUR opinions in YOUR style. I don't and won't read anything and everything you write. Sometimes I read - and respond - in detail. At others, I skim read and don't comment because your piece doesn't spark an interest in me.

But as this thread demonstrates, be prepared for the scorn. There are lurkers on TW who like nothing better than deriding other posters for their honestly expressed views whilst contributing little or nothing of (football) note themselves.

Steve Ferns
223 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:23:45
Silva spends little time on the opposition? Where did you get that from? Everything written about him and everything his players and former players say about him is about his attention to detail and the work he and his team do on the opposition.

Sure, today's performance showed absolutely no evidence of that. We played exactly into West Ham's tactics and they couldn't have dreamt of better. But let's not make things up, eh?

James Kirrane
224 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:26:30
Wow how we have missed Richarlison. I think we would have ended up with six points from the last two games if he had been playing. He has to start as the central forward against Arsenal with Bernard on the left.

Holgate looked terrible. Let's hope Mina gets up and running from the very start. A very chastening day.

John Pierce
225 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:37:38
Argh! Just watched this back after my own media block out today. Lots of effing and blinding but mostly gawping at how poor we were.

A couple of selection clangers I think worth airing. Calvert-Lewin played again as a left winger? Whatever his qualities, he's not a winger. In a formation which hinges on width the lad unsurprisingly was found wanting. Not his fault. Yet the manager decided to leave three ‘left wingers' on the bench. I'm afraid Dowell, Bernard & Lookman are all better suited to that role. Why were they not picked?

The selection of Gueye & Walcott was lazy and even Schniederlin's inclusion was an eyebrows raiser. The first two were clearly unfit and the latter asked to do something beyond him after his father passed.

Gueye was willing but had a day he'll want to forget; Walcott was lightweight. I think even leaning on absentees we were lame, in many ways. West Ham were reasonable and accepted the gifts we offered up gratefully.

We, still despite the performance, look like scoring which is definitely my take away. We also have seen little to no improvement in defence under Silva. However nascent his tenure, that really has to change, no excuses there, Marco.

Sadly Silva also flinched, and blinked first. His decision to go 4-4-2 was both folly in the game and lacked guts to understand he has to stick with what's been good so far.

The players were poor but the manager cops it from me for some dubious selections and tactical decisions.

No complaints, we were dismal.

Tom McEwan
226 Posted 16/09/2018 at 00:39:03
Steve @208 – fair doos about the 'tactical genius' thing but that's the way it comes across to me. When people praise you for your 'tactical acumen', I have never seen you deny any such thing. On the contrary, you thank people for their praises. You do not invite discussion on how your analysis could be improved. If someone disagrees you use phrases like, 'what most people seem to miss here..' or 'have a look again and you will see..'.

That, my friend, comes across to people like me, and obviously KT, as very arrogant, hence the ridicule.

I have no doubt your heart is in the right place concerning all things Everton but your complete denial of Silva's poor record at Hull and Watford ('he hit the ground running at every club he's managed') seems out of kilter with facts that do not support your evaluation of his coaching skills and I find that strange from a person who would take, in your own words, 'five hours' of their time to attempt to explain 'tactics' that clearly have not worked in the 'long-run' for this particular coach.

In other words, it is not how a coach begins his reign (and believe it or not, I am not in the 'knee-jerk' brigade) but how he sustains and ends it. Thus far, Silva does not have a Premier League record that suggests any long-term sustainability regarding success.

Once again, you may think this is hard to believe, but I sincerely hope he proves me wrong and you and the rest of the believers can have a good laugh at my expense when we have won some silverware and played football worthy of the purists.

It's not a difficult theory, Steve, its football, pure and simple. We score more goals than you, we get the points. You need good, hard-working COMMITTED players to do that alongside a coach/manager who is equally committed to that achievement. As an example of my way of thinking compared to yours, I challenge you to do your tactical analyses on the title-winning sides of the 70s and 80s.

That's not me trying to be a smart arse. Its just that even though, I witnessed at first hand, those teams, I still have no idea of the tactics employed. Only the fact that we worked hard, we had good COMMITTED players with committed coaches and managers, and, nine times out of ten, we scored more goals than the opposition.

Justin Doone
227 Posted 17/09/2018 at 00:42:48
I firmly believe some managers, including Silva, are about what we do with the ball, not worrying too much about the opposition and therefore spend the majority of time coaching, training, setting up the team etc to fit their style, plan etc.

Others, Dyche, Sam etc spend far more time analysing how to stop and counter the opposition.

Moaning Mo and Benitez have a more balanced approach but it's very much about what players you have that fit your preferred style. We have gone from Sam to Silva all be it via Koeman and I can honestly say I have no idea what he was about but certain players have failed, others struggle, some adapt whilst others are just not good enough.

Anyway, good football, top 10 and without any relegation fear is all I want for this season. I expect nothing more so, although disappointed, I'm also encouraged.

Marcus Taylor
229 Posted 17/09/2018 at 01:13:48
Silva has won only 2 of his last 16 Premier League games. His win ratio in the Premier League is now just 29.7% (14 wins from 47 matches). In those 47 games his teams have conceded 89 goals (Hull: 36 in 18, Watford: 44 in 24. Everton 9 in 5). Pretty much 2 goals per game at each club.

I'm not pinning the blame solely on the manager but the buck stops with him. You have to question his ability to organise a defence in English football, based on the stats. People will say Hull and Watford are poor sides but under Gracia, Watford have only conceded 25 in 19 and have won 8 of the 19 games compared with 7 wins from 24 for Silva. Coincidence or evidence of Silva's defensive limitations?

Soren Moyer
231 Posted 17/09/2018 at 03:00:05
Niasse, Tosun, Kenny, Holgate, Schneiderlin and Calvert-Lewin are NOT Premier League standard. Even Gana and Lookman are too lightweight for the Premier League. Unless they are replaced by quality, we can't expect any better outcome!
Steve Brown
232 Posted 17/09/2018 at 03:32:52
Tom, to be fair. It was Jay Woods who went all Alabama bible belt on our gay community and has since disappeared thankfully.

Steve Ferns has supported Silva's appointment and tactical acumen but he was one of the first on here after the match to slam the tactical decisions and substitutions during the game. Silva had a bad day at the office, but not half as bad as the players.

Digne had some fault with the second goal and I thought he was too far ahead of Yarmolenko on the first, but he was the only player on the pitch who can take ANY credit.

Personally, I think Silva got the selection wrong in picking Calvert-Lewin on the left but the rest of the selection was enforced due to injuries and suspensions. His tactical switch to four four two with the fullbacks pushing on left us completely exposed to counter attacks so lets never do that again.

But the brittle confidence of the team It was exposed from the second they scored their first. From that moment on, out game management went out the window. It really reminded me of last season. We are missing Richarlison, Mina, Gomes and we are without Keane, Coleman and McCarthy. I just hope team morale hasn't collapsed by the time we have them all back.

Mike Dolan
233 Posted 17/09/2018 at 03:48:13
Can't help but scream out in frustration after reading some of the negative tripe on this particular thread. "Everton are terrible", "Everton should be ashamed", "Everton are going to be in a relegation battle"...

I watched the game today and thought Everton played at least well enough to get a point and perhaps well enough to grab all three, that notwithstanding gifting West Ham all three of their goals.

One demented poster, a self-hating blue in the #190s even goes to serial great lengths to rip apart every single player on the books plus the manager, plus the owner – only leaving out in his ridiculous vindictive The Toffee Lady herself but this was probably just an oversight.

Let's try to get a grip here. We are not totally terrible, we do still suffer particularly in midfield where we have decent players who just don't compliment one another. We have managed to improve both our defense and our attack, two of our major signings have yet to play because of injury; two more, Digne and Bernard, were perhaps our best players today.

There is not a person on this planet who can reasonably judge Marco Silva as a great, good, bad, or terrible manager on the strength of five games almost all of which he put us in a position to win. Bless em all.

John Boon
234 Posted 17/09/2018 at 04:04:17
Having had the patience to have watched Everton for over 70 years I am very used to long-term inconsistency. Today's game was bad, but I have seen much worse. I still think it is far too early to be calling for another manager change.

This was a game of really bad mistakes, lousy passes and feeble tackles. I really hope Silva can pull these mediocre players together. I will only make a judgement when he settles on a team that we can truly blame him for. In actual fact the players he has brought in do seem to have added value to what he has inherited.

The most disappointing fact was that we were over run for the last 15 minutes by a team that was trying to defend a two-goal lead. The whole team seemed to have totally given up. Are we really fit enough? I don't think so.

However, I still want to give our new manager a fair chance, as frustrating as the situation might be. I also hope he doesn't put TOO much faith in our younger players as none of them seem to have the talent needed to play effectively in the Premier League.

Karl Meighan
235 Posted 17/09/2018 at 04:29:38
I don't know if some posters are going over the top and I will give Silva time but 1 point from 6 against Huddersfield and West Ham at home is not a good return and I'm still not sure what kind of formation we were meant to be playing in the 2nd half.
Mark Wilson
236 Posted 17/09/2018 at 06:09:51
Karl, #235, have hardly seen any of your comments which surprised me ie the thought that some are being “over the top”. No taking a pip at you but I know it's traditional to call for patience, time, blah blah blah. Wrong. There's no time in this league and only the best managers survive and flourish; it's pretty much the hardest place to manage and getting tougher.

Brands has been given time, well one transfer window, and, of course, we need about twenty by the look of how we played against the worst team in the league so far. But spookily he doesn't get time from me when somehow every fan of this club knows we are desperately short of three, not one, not two, but three centre-back defenders and got just one yet to be proven, in Mina.

Holgate is another in the Lookman, Calvert-Lewin mode has a decent game one in five and that's usually against a Rotherham and the shouts emerge for him to play. He's nowhere near good enough and I think he loses concentration very easily. Gets caught out of position too often and wins few balls in the air. Keane may yet surprise me alongside Mina and Zouma and yes I can't see how with this squad we can't shore up a grim defence by playing those three together with Digne and Coleman as proper wing backs.

What was really horrible yesterday was the lack of any real shape, the disorganised look to all we did. This wasn't a great advert for Silva and no it's not too early to say that given the evidence of five largely underwhelming performances against basically poor opposition.

But back to Brands and the summer, which yet again is now looking like a window of over-hyped player investment. We needed another central defender so badly it's not true.

But staggeringly we needed a forward even more and Bernard wasn't the answer, good tho he may turn out to be behind the front two or wide left. Evertonians are yet again in love with a player because he works hard, well I'm sorry Cenk Tosun, give me a stupidly labelled “lazy” almost guaranteed 20- or 25-goal forward like Rom any day over guts and effort.

Lukaku's too early sale, whatever the pressure, increasingly looks like the worst player transfer decision in the clubs history, and I really mean that despite the Rooney thing. That sale has destabilised an entire football club. I will accept Lukaku was after the move but others held on in similar circumstances. So should we. At least for that year and actually sold after a replacement is bought in.

Against an average West Ham side struggling with a poor start Tosun looked exactly what he is – a mistake. Too slow, and never, ever, likely to get the goal return needed. Yes, he's very honest and yes he will have the odd good spell to make my muttering here look a bit iffy. But he's honestly, really, truly, quite crap at, you know, taking chances. That's the bottom line and frankly we don't have a centre-forward of quality at the club.

Brands had to have spotted that. Can't believe it wasn't a bigger priority than shipping out loads on loan. He, like Silva, faces a harder time now it's clear to them just how utterly shite the squad is and there are honestly hardly any standouts you'd say are crucial. Walcott I guess. Digne looks sound but worried he can't defend! Mina if remotely as good ashe looked in the World Cup. Bernard if remotely as good as a good Brazillian. Not even convinced any more by Pickford but do suspect Virginia may be better then we dare hope.

It's another mess but perhaps we will shock and win at Arsenal. Worried, Thomas – it looks like we will get embarrassed again. Fingers crossed.

Gary Edwards
237 Posted 17/09/2018 at 06:47:29
Gueye and Schneiderlin cannot play together, they nullify each other, always have done, always will. I wonder if their joint presence confuses Holgate too who takes it as license to wander forward.

Calvert-Lewin is only effective through the middle and requires constant prompting to work and get into the right positions. He needs to be managed.

Tosun's form is woeful which seems in part to be down to his poor positioning. When you're as slow as him, you need a good footballing brain... which he doesn't seem to have.

Sigurdsson is terrible and he is certainly not skipper material.

We need to get balls into the oppo's box on first touch, think Digne's first-half ball on to Tosun's head.

I thought we looked slow, very slow all overe the pitch. I don't remember Yarmalenko being terribly fast, Arnautovic certainly isn't, but both showed our defence a clean pair of heels.

It's a mess.

Christopher Timmins
238 Posted 17/09/2018 at 07:03:43
A bad result yesterday but come on we are 5 games into the season, three of our first choice central defenders were out as was our right back and our main goal-scoring threat.

Give the manager time, I for one don't expect things to show a marked improvement until he has his players on the pitch playing his way for a good 10 games or more.

I will tune back in sometime in late January.

John Hammond
239 Posted 17/09/2018 at 07:46:59
Pretty much the same team as last season bar a couple of players so this kind of performance and result wasn't really a surprise. Silva really didn't have much choice with the injuries. Expect more days like these.

How Tosun needed a goal yesterday. Jesus, what a miss. Perhaps he should've been dropped for Calvert-Lewin. Can't see him being dropped for the Arsenal game though as he's key to how Silva wants the front 3 to play and we'll have Richarlison back next week.

The sooner we can get Mina and Gomes in the team the better then we hope they can make a bit of a difference.

Mike Doyle
241 Posted 17/09/2018 at 08:13:42
Sam #196. Sorry to make you day even worse by mentioning big Sam. What about Moysie? -he could certainly organise a defence - and his teams generally put on better performances than we’ve seen recently.
( Is it my imagination or has the Sean Dyche fan club gone quiet lately? )
Ciarán McGlone
242 Posted 17/09/2018 at 08:18:49
When your Number 10 is a £45 million immobile wet lettuce like Sigurdsson and your centre-forward is Cenk Tosun, then that's the battle lost already...

We have other problems on the pitch but changing the Number 10 and centre-forward will go a long way to changing how we play. Put Bernard in there with Richarlison and Walcott either side with Calvert-Lewin up top and I guarantee that will make a huge difference.

Brent Stephens
243 Posted 17/09/2018 at 08:45:23
Striker, striker, striker. Until we have one, we'll suffer more games and results like this.

Not only do we have few genuine chances created up front, we gift the opposition far too many chances to come back at us, with the odds then increasing that chances are converted to goals.

Striker, striker, striker.

Trevor Peers
244 Posted 17/09/2018 at 08:51:28
Steve Ferns didn't pick Silva as manager, he was obviously Moshiri's first and only choice. That's the second time he's got it wrong and this time it could be fatal. Why doesn't he take advice and guidance from footballing statesmen when he appoints his managers?

He knows nothing about football, he's a business man in the same mould as Randy Lerner and look what happened to Aston Villa. His short-term appointment of hiring Allardyce, to guide us to safety, has been his only decent decision so far. He could ill-afford to appoint another Koeman type disaster of a manager but that's exactly what we've got. Silva may turn out to be even worse, and it looks like we may also have to pay a heavy penalty for hiring him.

The only hope left is that before Xmas, he finds another firefighter type manager, to save us from possible relegation because, on current form, we will be lucky to get another victory for a long long time.

David Hallwood
245 Posted 17/09/2018 at 09:31:08
All doom and gloom but for those posters that are saying we're shite, when in fact we're a top 10 side, or a 7th- to 10th-place side, more to the point.

That was a terrible day at the office and, yes, it was made worse by some strange selections, but would Calvert-Lewin have played wide right if Charlie hadn't been suspended or Bernard up to speed?

Disappointing but this won't be instant, so really we'll have to assess the team when all the new arrivals are fit and integrated.

And as for some people calling for Silva's sacking, FFS – get a grip

Daniel Lim
246 Posted 17/09/2018 at 09:48:14
I'm just glad that today's meeting saved me from going through the pain last night. The meeting was important to me so I decided not to follow the game in any way and went to bed early (time zone here is GMT +7 hours).

Otherwise, I would be so pissed off that I would probably also have had a bad day at work.

Brian Harrison
247 Posted 17/09/2018 at 09:57:16
I know it's hard after losing at home to a team who had lost their previous 4 games, and following the disappointment of only drawing at home to Huddersfield. But for some to be suggesting Silva has got till Xmas to save his job is bordering on madness.

Funny how we forget so easily that our first game away at Wolves, we played the whole second half with 10 men and were unlucky not to win. We played well for large parts against Southampton and were worthy winners. Away at Bournemouth again reduced to 10 men and again the better side for a lot of the game, and yes a game we should have won.

I would suggest in the 2 away games were we went down to 10 men if any of our 3 previous managers had been in charge, we would have had 10 men behind the ball trying to survive and would probably have lost.

So let's not dismiss the positives that we have seen under Silva, does he need to make sure this team defend better absolutely. But hasn't the cry been from most of us match going fans that we wanted a team that looked to attack the opposition rather than hoping for a goal from a set piece.

I posted before the game I thought their attack carried a lot more threat than the one Silva had to rely on and sadly it proved correct. If we had been as clinical in our finishing as they were, I don't think we would have lost.

Finally, we can only judge Silva properly after he has his first choice players on the pitch than having to put up with playing players who had failed under both Koeman and Allardyce. Has Digne and Zouma looked improvements on what we had I think yes and Richarlison has looked a real class player who was sorely missed in the last 2 games.

Bernard also showed yesterday he has real ability and let's not forget this was his first match since March. I can't wait till he gets match fit. Plus he still hasn't been able to play Mina who is to be his main central defender and Gomes who is probably going to be his first choice in central midfield.

So while disappointed with yesterday, which was our worst performance so far, I think there are enough pluses to encourage us that, sooner rather than later, we will see a very different Everton.

Rob B Williams
248 Posted 17/09/2018 at 10:20:24
Steve, Like Jay at 222 says, I too, skim your messages like I do most, until I find something that catches my interest. Not a lot does these days as most posts are repetitive and cases of one-up-manship. Many, including yours, are far too longwinded and so I tend to skip, not skim those.

I have formed the distinct opinion that you like to defend people, and see yourself as Silva's self-appointed mouthpiece. Whether he has engaged you for the role of personal advocate or not, I do believe that Mr Silva should by now be well able to handle his own defence. There is little chance of him appearing in his own defence on the pages of ToffeeWeb – instead he should show us what he is made of and state his case on the field of play.

I for one am taking to his style of play, he has not had the best of luck with injuries, red cards etc but I am prepared to wait, apart from Zonal!

As for you, Steve, you have to realise that many on here are honing in on the messenger and not the message you attempt to convey.

In short, and sorry I have taken so long getting to the point – I feel you are developing into a bit of a Stevie Me. No reply necessary.

Rob Dolby
249 Posted 17/09/2018 at 10:36:20
I thought that we just got caught out by 2 sucker punches and a mistake from the keeper coupled with clinical finishing.

We played some decent stuff yesterday but couldn't score with our chances. Tosun had 2 very good chances and Niasse had one. We will concede more this season as we seem to be attacking more.

Digne had a good game with very little help in front of him. Calvert-Lewin somehow managed to get a full game and Pickford made a howler for their 2nd.

I don't think there is much to panic about though I do think Tosun needs to start scoring or he will be replaced by Richarleson or Walcott.

Tim Gerrard
250 Posted 17/09/2018 at 10:47:27
The hope is that Silva is learning quickly about the players.

A lot on here are having a go at the younger players. I thought Holgate was poor, he was getting bullied and his passing, like a lot of the team was dreadful, but he is playing in a position where young players rarely thrive. Whilst I accept that sometimes it is necessary to play players out of position, it clearly is doing Calvert-Lewinno favours out wide, he needs a few games down the middle. As for Kenny, he put over some great crosses, and also got in some good positions but Walcott showed a strange reluctance to play the easy ball to him.

We do lack a physical presence in the midfield. Both Gana and Morgan have attributes, but neither seem to be the complete midfielder and I would be surprised if either will feature in a successful team, and certainly not as a combination.

Tosun seems to be very limited at the moment and is only playing because Niasse is worse. Calvert-Lewin to get a chance? Or maybe Richarlison, however we seem to need him out wide, as Lookman doesn't look the slightest bit interested.

So over to Marco to find a winning combination – we will probably stuff Arsenal next week, won't we?

Tony Everan
251 Posted 17/09/2018 at 11:13:19
Rob (#247),

Please don't say we played some decent stuff yesterday, it was 90% poor and 10% decent from what I saw. I fully agree about the chances missed though and the absolute dire quality of finishing.

I asked a rhetorical question: “Would we have won yesterday with Lukaku playing centre-forward?” I think we may have done.

I think the role of centre-forward was diluted yesterday by playing Calvert-Lewin and Tosun. It did them both no good and the team no good.

Paul Tran
252 Posted 17/09/2018 at 11:16:40
Five games in, with a mix of last season's slag off-ees and to be integrated players and already, some are proving what a forward-looking, intelligent bunch of fans we are by screaming for Allardyce & Moyes.

Give me strength! See you on Sunday.

Marcus Taylor
253 Posted 17/09/2018 at 11:44:24
5 games in and we are at least 5 points below par for me. 11 points should have been the bare-minimum target from the fixtures we've had. We've played nobody of note so far.

It's easy to say' be patient' but looking ahead, how many points will we pick up in the 12 fixtures against the 'Top 6' sides?

I'd be surprised if we get more than 6 or 7 points from those games (we got 4 points last season) – that's why it is so important to be beating the likes of West Ham and Huddersfield at home.

Steve Brown
254 Posted 17/09/2018 at 11:53:23
My reflections now that I have slept on it:

1) "Striker, striker, striker" as Brent so eloquently puts it! We have never replaced Lukaku and neither Tosun, Calvert-Lewin or Niasse ever will.

2) We need a Doucoure in midfield, where we are outmuscled every game. A tall, athletic central midfielder to compiement Gomes when he is fit as any combination of Gueye, Davies or Schneiderlin is too light weight.

3) Schneiderlin and Gueye cannot play together any more ever, as their passing, possession and creativity is poor. When they play, we cede control of central midfield every time.

4) Push one fullback forward but not two at this time. We are not strong enough in central midfield or central defence to manage the counter-attack.

5) Despite the last two games, our style of play has improved under Silva but he must work on the defence. Mina and Keane returning will help, as Digne already looks a good buy.

6) Can we avoid the knee-jerk histrionics when we suffer one defeat? Some of the comments on this thread are way over the top.

7) I enjoy reading Steve Ferns so keep posting. I don't read everything but it is always interesting.

Paul Smith
255 Posted 17/09/2018 at 11:54:48
Sometimes I don't understand TW — if you all bumped into each other at the match, within 10 minutes, you'd be boxing.
Colin Malone
256 Posted 17/09/2018 at 12:06:06
Out-muscled in defence. Why with the last three managers, is Jagielka the odd man out? Then, when he gets his chance, he proves he's our best defender. Get Jags back ASAP. Midfield is piss poor, for the style we want to play.

As said, Gana and Morgan should not play in the same side again, unless we decide to park the bus.

Talking about parking the bus, teams like Huddersfield and West Ham, seen it so many times over the years... come to Everton, park the bus, and you are guaranteed a point or three.

Darren Hind
257 Posted 17/09/2018 at 12:43:13
Jay Wood @222. Get paid!

I'm not always in agreement with Steve Ferns either, but if ToffeeWeb did a poster of the year award it would surely, surely, surely belong to Steve.

If it wasn't for "Stevie Me" those who post in the evenings would have been reduced to watching a lot more Corrie and Emerdale and those who post in the day time would have been forced to do a little more of what they are being paid to do.

There's an invitation on the TW page inviting all posters to have "their say" Those who feel they can do better than Steve should accept that invite.

Justin Doone
258 Posted 17/09/2018 at 13:38:19
We may never be able to play all of the new signings together for fitness or suspension reasons so we need to do the best with what's available. Little point in waiting to judge and therefore we need to move on and support the team.

So, of course, you can judge a manager, coach or player based on a few games, it's likely you may be proved wrong but we all do it.

I didn't want Silva but happy that he's here to improve the football and enjoyment I get from supporting a team that look like they are playing as a team and are creating and scoring goals. Last season was shockingly more boring than it was bad.

In my opinion, he's never going to be a top coach, just like Martinez, but there's a chance we could win silverware and if not at least have the consolation of good football.

To a lesser extent but a similar position I don't think there are many Spurs fans wanting to get rid of Pochettino even though they look like they may be slowly going backwards and have won no silverware but continue to play good attacking football.

In Ric we have a real gem. Bernie looks very promising. Digne, Baines and Kenny can all deliver good crosses. Tosun will score goals as will Calvert-Lewin but it should be either or playing centrally.

Defensive midfield remains a problem area. Schneiderlin can take the season off, just doesn't do enough. Bernie and Gana or Davies are the press and energy and I'd play Sigurdsson deep to take the ball off them and spray it around before Gomes takes his place.

Not convinced Mina has the pace to play a high defensive line in a 2 so for me it's play a little deeper or change to a 3-5-2, fullbacks are already playing high up to provide width.

Ric can float to find space and Calvert-Lewin, Tosun or Walcott as the forward.

I'm not expecting anything from the Arsenal game but I want to see effort, creativity and to score a goal or two.

Winston Williamson
259 Posted 17/09/2018 at 13:43:32
Late to the party here...

Tosun gave the ball away with lackluster and poor hold-up play – goal to West Ham...

Pickford waited an eternity to play the ball out, gifts it to their player and... goal to West Ham!

We're then chasing the game and change tactics.

2nd half we had no midfield, with huge holes in the middle of the park.

Tosun was dreadful yesterday. Utter garbage!

Other than his goal, Sig was just awful. He, not anyone else, he, has to assert himself into the game more.

Bernard looks very useful. Kenny was great, as too was Digne. However, when one attacks, the other needs to tuck in and stay back.

The center-halves were all over the place. It looked unsettled, as it is unsettled. Once a first choice back four is in place and settled, I believe we'll see a huge improvement.

We definitely need another striker in January but that is easier said than done...

Disappointed but remaining hopeful.

Eddie Dunn
260 Posted 17/09/2018 at 13:55:34
I know it is too early to judge the manager, and I do hope he gets it right, but my choice, along with many others on the TW poll, was Eddie Howe.

Aren't Bournemouth doing well?

Joe O'Brien
261 Posted 17/09/2018 at 16:12:17
For those wanting Moyes back... what, the man who went behind our back and agreed to become the Man Utd manager! That Moyes was it... good God give me strength.. and others saying that the other lot got in Klopp and hasn't he done great... he finished the first season with them in 8th place.

Silva has been in the job for 5 mins — give the man some time to put his stamp on the team.

Bernard just getting playing; Mina and Gomes still haven't played, and we've been disrupted by injuries and red cards. I'm not panicking... disappointed, yes – but for sure not pressing the panic button that so many on here are.

Mick Davies
262 Posted 17/09/2018 at 16:44:46
We're missing some bollocks in midfield – in fact, throughout the whole side.

Although we see some of the usual claptrap written about McCarthy (can't score, can't pass etc) that type of player is worth more than a goal or two. He flies under the radar doing the dirty unattractive work, motivates the team by example and leaves everything on the pitch.

I had to laugh at some posters saying he'll have difficulty getting a game now with all the competition, such as Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Davies etc. Roll on Macca's first game back – and give him the armband, Silva!

James Newcombe
263 Posted 17/09/2018 at 17:42:48
West Ham's three central midfielders won that – they were first to every loose ball and showed more grit and composure than ours. That said, their defence was just as bad and, with Richarlison, I think we'd have won what would have been a crazy game.
Ray Smith
264 Posted 17/09/2018 at 19:27:16
Mick 262

With you 100%.

For the first time yesterday, I nearly walked out. I decided to stay after we scored, but left at the end wondering what I had witnessed, totally apathetic.

As for McCarthy, he would be head and shoulders for commitment than all 11 players and subs yesterday. He would/will walk into the current side, once fit, IMO.

Mike Doyle
265 Posted 17/09/2018 at 19:36:41
It was in grim times like these that Ken Buckley's reports from the game – and the Room of Nonesense – provided some much-needed balance.

Ken, we need you back (actually, we could do with you and Lukaku back)!

Justin Doone
266 Posted 18/09/2018 at 09:14:09
If McCarthy can get back for and he's still as quick and as mobile as he used to be 4 years ago then I'd certainly start him ahead of Schniderlin. He's another grafter but with little quality.

If he plays with Gana that's still 2 midfielders with limited ability to pass the ball so a 3rd midfielder is needed to run the show, Sigurdsson, Baningime or Gomes.

I can't see him being the player he used to be or staying injury free. For me he should be sold to bring in better quality and reliability (fitness wise). Mooy or Drinkwater are 2 that have proven Premier League ability to control midfield, start attacks from deep and link play. Don't forget, even if Gomes is 'the man', he's only on loan.

Matthew Williams
267 Posted 18/09/2018 at 13:36:09
Tosun needs taking out of the firing line at the present time and other players need to step up to fire in the goals us.

But the lad will come back stronger and be the striker that I saw for Besiktas and Turkey over a year ago... he scores goals, folks!

Franny Porter
268 Posted 18/09/2018 at 15:47:30
If they are available, I'd like to see this on Sunday in a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2:

Pickford GK

Kenny WB
Digne WB

Zouma CB
Mina CB
Keane CB

Gana CM
Sigurdsson CM

Walcott RF
Richarlison ST
Bernard LF

David Foster
269 Posted 18/09/2018 at 20:18:00
We really need to get a result against Arsenal and Fulham or it's gonna be a long season of struggle again.
Kevin Dyer
270 Posted 18/09/2018 at 23:43:17
A lot of ridiculous over-the-top reaction on here. I wanted WHU before the break because they are not a bad team and have an experienced coach. They gelled. Their front 3 are impressive, Atnautovic is world-class when his head's on straight. We were disorganized and misfiring. Silva needs to get our positioning right if both fullbacks are bombing on. Tosun is the type that needs service and supporting runners. With Walcott not right and Gylfi our only creative threat he was easily handled. With Richarlison back and hopefully Bernard in the team he'll do better. DCL needs to be utilized as a backup striker, not out wide.

People need to get a grip and realize we have a new manager with a new approach and have bought half a team of potential starters, 3 of whom have not (or barely) featured yet. This, brought into a malfunctioning, unsettled team. We were awful preseason, the opening 2 games gave premature hope that we had got over that but this is going to be a process.

Deriding our young players is an embarrassment. All are highly regarded prospects, except by our own fans. People talk about us being a laughing stock (really, fans of other clubs pay us little attention). Sure fire way to merit that description is to bomb out another manager this season. It's taken 1 (ONE) defeat for the usual moaners to start wallowing in it. Season over, after 5 league games, in both ciups, give me a break

Tony Everan
271 Posted 19/09/2018 at 10:30:28
I thought Calvert-Lewin came in for a bit of over the top criticism. Playing him out of position on the left midfield was a poor decision, and may have dented his confidence a bit.

The lad should be given his chance as 1st choice Centre Forward, recently after being given the responsibility he has delivered. Up until he was played out of position he looked to me like he had improved. He cannot be hung out to dry because of being told to play out of position. He deserves a shot at being our No1 striker.

Tosun is having a barn door/banjo moment, and Niasse isn’t starting material.

Jack Convery
272 Posted 19/09/2018 at 20:11:09
Collective noun for Toffee Webbers — An Impatience of TWers would be my choice.

Any other ideas, chaps?

Brent Stephens
273 Posted 19/09/2018 at 20:39:30

A cackle of ToffeeWebbers?
A shrewdness?
A murder?
A wisdom?

Joe McMahon
274 Posted 19/09/2018 at 20:40:41
Tony@271. I think he would do ok in division 1 standard. He's had many appearances now, and do you remember last year's Derby.
Lawrence Green
275 Posted 19/09/2018 at 20:51:35
A shrivel of critics; discord of experts; illusion of magicians; ponder of philosophers; worship of writers – or most unkindly a shower of bastards .... *joking*

Brent Stephens
276 Posted 19/09/2018 at 21:14:36
Next step, Jack, Lawrence, is to attach each collective noun to a set of named ToffeeWebbers.

Include me in a "shrivel of critics" as I've just got out of the bath.

Ron Sear
277 Posted 20/09/2018 at 17:29:11
Jack: All the D's

A Dread of ToffeeWebbers?
A Despond?
A Despair?
A Delusion?

Tony Everan
278 Posted 21/09/2018 at 10:05:26
How about

A Ficklefest of ToffeeWebbers.

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