Defensive concerns grow as Everton are thumped by Rennes

Wednesday's performance was poor and this match marks the end of Silva's pre-season fact-finding mission. The fringe players and youngsters need to step it up and show that they should be considered for the first team. Too many were off the pace and lacklustre. Chances for them to impress will be few and far between, they need to embrace and perform in these matches.

Next week, we should see a sharp and focussed mainly 1st choice 11 organised and motivated.

Hope what may look like the starting line up in a fortnight, are playing. The deadwood have had their chances and blown them good style.

Let's hope we start showing a bit of pride tonight at the field we are playing at.

No response from the club for refund, nor an apology since I'm no longer a member or STH.

The ignorance of club regarding support globally is atrocious.

Harummmphh!

Poor communication is the clubs stock and trade, I'd get used to it.

Subs: Hewelt, Hilton, Kenny, Pennington, Robinson, Williams, Besic, Davies, Dowell, Mirallas, Vlasic, Niasse.

A third email has yielded my apology and refund in the last few minutes.

Unfortunately for the club my lifestyle allows me to be a grumpy arsed emailing c**t.

Never surrender to these incompetent money grabbing b*astards.

UTFT!

P*riceless.

Is that because he sees something in him he wants to utilise this season, or putting him in the shop window to remind other clubs he is on our books? Because once Walcott and DCL is fit, Sandro must drop down the pecking order, surely?

1. Lack of quality in several areas.

2. Sandro seeing a lot of football. Is this window dressing him or reintegration?

Passes from the flanks for Tuson to challenge defenders? Not his game, No!

I am also glad to see Silva givin Sandro another chance if he cannot grasp it this time well it cant be said

Stating the bleeding obvious but our CB partnership is worrying, I would fancy myself to bag a brace against those two ffs

As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely no reason to suspect we'll get better results than we did under Sam. The only positive is that the football might be at a very slightly quicker tempo, and the fans won't be swearing at the manager until early September or so.

I have seen the team and it looks as though it is his first team . but missing Lookman and Walcott makes it look toothless Richardson and Tosun - give us an answer .

Anybody else suffering ?

Koeman has just won at Ascot. Sums my day up. Hope it gets better with a good display here.

May need to click on the black frame 2-3 times (and close pop up tabs) to reveal the muted volume and option to make it full screen.

Link

I was down in Porto and these pre-season friendlies have very very home side refs .

Before this game the referee team and the opposite management were hugging and kissing and their eyes were like they were in love .

He's only 41 better than what we have!!

We could be looking at a very long season ahead.

Watch 10 minutes of a hurling game, they train everyday, get petrol expenses only and any county team would match the fitness levels of our side. They then go on a field go up to catch a ball knowing a hurl is coming down on their hand, do they shirk .do they fuck! Imagine one of these clowns in a tough sport.

No need for two CDM in my opinion. We need a player who can beat a man and attack next to Gana or Schneiderlin.

Need to get Gylfi and Tosun involved.

Very good half from Richarlison.

Basically we can keep changing managers but the squad is still shit with a losers mentality.

He was the only professional manager we have had for a while . who could have built on something stable a good defence . and the professional coaching team he brought .

If we continue to get dicked then I will do the old told you so about SA . I do fear the drop with what we have got .

Without obvious goals upfront - you have to close the back door . SA did that as does the dick Mourinho I don't like him and I don't like SA- but they are professional managers . in the Prem that is what you need to survive .

On the positive side Silva's going for a fast passing style philosophy and pressing, oh for him to have a Bracewell and Reed in midfield . not a Schneid!

Having said that, Walcott will be training next week, that puts Sandro on the bench.

Bolasie and Lookman are still our players. Both capable of coming on and making a difference.

Sandro tries but isn't good enough. We are in deep trouble and need 2 CB a left back, a centre mid, a striker and a clear out of gargantuan proportions

Taxi for Schneiderlin.

Richarlison looks very good.

Not sure about Sandro, Jags and Keane.

I didn't see the Blackburn game but this is dire, regardless of the final result.

This Everton squad reminds me of the 1980's Coventry team.

Comfortable with losing games as long as they win just enough to stick mid table and stay up.

Tosun is far to quiet for my liking.

These two decisions alone give me hope. Two CBs and LBs are badly needed, the present incumbents are likely to go missing in the middle of a game. Schneiderlin nerves are shot, in front of them.

Without Wayne we would have been relegated .

Wayne has a winners mentality . even in 5 a side and pre-season games .

As SA would have done close the back of and buy goals .

Ive played with better defenders in pub teams ffs

Still 5 or 6 players in team today that just shouldn't be here.

Sad to watch and a more than a bit cringing even allowing for "preseason friendly" tag.

I give us about a 3% chance of beating Wolves on the opening day.

The Brazilian lad must be wondering What The Fuck his agent was thinking...

I was disappointed to see it revert to type after positivities in The Algarve. Disappointed to see we need to use Schneiderlin, Mirallas, Stekelenburg, Williams (thankfully not today) and Niasse. Disappointed our attack are stale and stationary. Disappointed Tom Davies is no better than on his debut.

Still, let's hope it's a big smokescreen and we will fire on all cylinders against Wolves.

It needs sorting fast...

Besic should be in that team, in the middle ahead of Schneiderlin every game.

Sigurdsson was anonymous in his now No 10 role, Couldn't clear the wall from a free kick nor get past the first defender when taking corners.

I swear our club has a curse hanging over it. Silva had better be tearing strips out of that lot after this.

Silva and Brands for their own sake need to come out and state the obvious, it will take 5 years to put right. There are no good-enough youngsters to bail them out, Unsworth blurts too much about them but, if Davies is our best, god help us.

Things can only get better... :-) — or can they???

Pre-season is all about fitness and being ready for the 11th August but how shambolic does our team look against second-tier opponents?

Two weeks to sort it out.

Crazy saying it but I long for the likes of Naisy, Jelavic, Pienaar... maybe not the most talented, but they're so much better than what we have and they gave a shit about playing for the club — not like the majority of our current crop of cheats.

Every time Rennes attacked with pace, Keane, Jagielka and Baines were left floundering. The midfield are useless going forward, and both Sandro and Tosun are just nowhere near good enough.

The hardcore of this team have got rid of 3 managers; unless Silva can turn things around, they may well see him off.

I just hope that both Walcott and Lookman are fit to play against Valencia and Wolves. This defence is woefully not good enough, they lack strength and pace.

Pick any 11 from that squad and it won't make any difference. There's something not right with the attitude at this club.

Similar to last season: 8-10th place challenge. Nothing more.

Don't give me "it's a pre-season friendly and it doesn't matter" — bollocks! It does matter. If we don't get more players in before the start of the season... well, you work it out.

I wish he'd stayed and built on our second-half stability last season. A change of philosophy and a change of coaches etc etc will see us go the way Villa did.

I think we need Moyes back now... stablize the ship and bring some winning mentality back.

Everton, you get on my fucking nerves.

Keane Williams and Jagielka need to be jettisoned immediately. Baines is finished. Schneiderlin should never play for us again. Niasse is not good enough. None of the kids, including Davies, are good enough.

Pickford, Coleman Holgate, Lookman, Richarlison, and Walcott, for me, are the only players worth keeping. All the rest can go.

We just look so old and slow. This is going to be a 2-year project just to get competitive again.

That was a supposed near-enough full-strength team out there today and God help us if we play a half-decent team.

They looked knackered, uninterested and shellshocked at the same time. Utter dross. Confidence must be rock bottom.

We need a rematch with the Austrian amateurs but I fear that would be embarrassing as well.

I hope Silva has a plan or some sort of different tactics because nothing seems to have changed.

Silva took Hull down and Watford were going down before he was sacked... Why the fuck is he Everton's manager!

No, the squad isn't good enough. We are a squad in transition. Aging players and players simply not good enough. If we can make the top ten this season, job done. We knew this squad needed serious work on it.

Silva has a massive job on his hands. Friendlies mean nothing. Please let me be right!

We just have 12 days left before the season starts, and I understand the manager started late with the World Cup going on but something has to be done, as all the training and fitness programs do not seem to be showing any end results.

I was worried when Brands and Silva came in and said they would now evaluate the squad. You only had to watch a few of last season's games to know that about 90% of the squad are an embarrassment and as much talented footballers as I am but at least I would make an effort.

The first signings should have been a left-back and left-sided centre-back and then two central midfielders that can actually control a game of football; then we can consider a luxury player.

Typical Everton: farcical... and who chose Silva as manager? Like Martinez, after seeing one or two games where his tactics actually worked. Amateurs the lot of them.

Never thought I would but I am off to the bookies to get some money back when Everton crash and burn. Hopefully with my luck, it will guarantee Premier League safety, having done that! We have a reasonable start to the season and are light-years away from being ready. So, fail to win those matches, with a possible points deduction for poaching, and we are in big trouble.

This is pre-season, no one's giving 100%. Anyone thinking we're all of a sudden going to be a brilliant team is mad but it's not like we've completely and utterly shite for 90 mins in every game. There's signs of what Silva is trying to do.

We all know the problems with this squad and what needs to be done but it ain't going to be a quick fix. More players will be brought in, more will be gotten rid of – it's a start.

And everyone who comments about the losers mentality in the club, they're 100% correct.

I remember a bit of a squabble the club had with Roy Keane about something he said about the club's mentality. Something to do with an EFC player pulling out of an international and he questioned our recent trophy record... he received comments along the lines of ‘he should now, last time we won a trophy he played in the game!'.

I thought he's called us right. A coward of a club with a coward's mentality to the game. If anyone disagrees with me, I'll point to our derby record! Possibly, the most shameful thing we have.

Pickford, Coleman, Walcott, Richarlison and possibly Lookman (I honestly haven't seen him play enough for us to say) are the only ones who would get into any other Premier League starting 11.

Holgate, Tosun and Besic I would keep for backup, although I would have Mo over Morgan and Tom any and every day of the week. The rest of the squad obviously just don't care, are too old or just Championship level at best.

I know it's pre-season and I'm not freaking out yet... but, unless we get a few decent signings in (I couldn't care less if they're well known names or not, as long as they have quality, fight and pride) and performances increase sharply and quickly, this could be a very telling season.

I feel for Silva, the shite he has to work with is shocking. As much as I'd love the honour, I wouldn't want the job with the muck we have in our current squad. I hope for his and our sakes he has both hands firmly on the hatchet and it'll be coming down on virtually half of those thieves! But it begs the question... Who would take them? I think it's best, in the long run, to pay them off and just get rid!

I totally agree with you 110%.

As for the midfield... please! I hope Silva doesn't fall into the trap of believing Schneiderlin and Gueye work as a defensive midfield axis because it clearly doesn't. As Karl Jones said earlier, Schneiderlin's sloppiness and awful passing drags everyone down

We all know a playmaker, two centre-halves, a left-back, and a striker are needed; whether the manager does is another issue.

He's got to be given time because any manager would struggle with that rabble. We need quality and quick. He's made a good signing in the Brazilian; now it remains to be seen if he can get at least 3 more quality players in.

Payers to be shipped out for me: Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Mirallas, Davies, Pennington, Besic, Williams, Jagielka, and Sigurdsson — the biggest waste of money ever... one awful buy to go with the rest of the shite I've mentioned. Worrying indeed!!!

I understand pre-season games are primarily to get game time in the players' legs, but performances and results do impact on the psyche of all. They should also be used to get systems into sync.

For the most part, we were shambolic.

I have seen absolutely nothing of the Blackburn game, but by all accounts today was a continuation of the same.

Everton continue to play as we have become all too familiar with for more than a year now: we have no presence in either penalty area, defensively or offensively. We play between both penalty areas, but very rarely do we encroach either of them.

Rennes – a very lowly regional team in French football – did not have to work at all hard for their four gifted goals. Schneiderlin was culpable in three of them, but the whole setup exposed us to Rennes exploiting us down the flanks.

I did some translation work for Steve Ferns in helping him better understand Marco Silva's preferred strategy. A couple of them were in evidence today, but to our cost, namely:

* He likes his full-backs to get forward in support of the attack when his team is on the front foot. Seamus in particular did that in the first half, getting loads of space down the flank, linking well with Sandro, but not producing any end result. The two first-half goals came down his flank when AWOL and neither the midfield nor defence properly 'reset' to cover for Seamus.

* When on the defensive, Silva likes his defenders to shift their position towards the flank being attacked. In part, you saw evidence of that with the same two first half goals. Unfortunately, the defence wasn't in sync and the adjusted positions taken up by Jagielka, Keane and Baines made it easy, not difficult, for Rennes to score.

Rennes did an excellent high-pressing job on us in the 2nd half. We could barely cross the halfway line and were constantly turning and passing backwards. This in part resulted in their two 2nd-half goals. We had neither the players with the guile, nor the movement to offer themselves, to escape from this high press.

The two players who should be our 2 playmakers, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, simply weren't. Sigurdsson can be excused a bit as he has just returned this week, but Schneiderlin...?

The biggest saving grace was Richarlison's contribution. He looked goosed by the end, but he certainly makes things happen when he gets the ball. That was another failing: not getting the Braziian on the ball more often.

The XI who played the majority of the game was near as damn it the best starting XI currently on our books and who can expect to play in the majority of the games this season.

They ain't yet fit for purpose — not by a long stretch.

I am glad to see more of our fans waking up to Tom Davies. I was called all the names under the sun last season when I said Tom isn't Premier League quality. Same applies to Dominic Calvert-Lewin. Simply not up to it.

Koeman and Walsh should be shot for the crap they brought here. Silva needs to forget egos and being nice and rid EFC of Muppets like Schneiderlin, Williams, Jagielka and Gueye. The trouble is, if we shift out all the crap, there's no-one left to play.

We are a million miles away from the top 4. It would take at least 3 years of Usmanov's money to even challenge top 4.

On top of the awfull playing side of things, the club is still fucking up basic customer services like Live Streaming and Bramley-Moore Dock is becoming another laughing stock. The recent CEO appointment is another sick joke. Yet another example of jobs for the boys.

I fear for the club unless the powers that be become more brutaI and intervene a bit more. I am still shaking my head at Kenwright allowing Koeman to waste all that money on old man Sigurdsson.

Say what you like about Abromovich, but he takes no shit. Man Utd's board are also blocking purchases yet our lot never learn. Like a previous poster has said, Wolves will murder this lot of clowns next week.

I said six months ago Tom Davies should be out on loan this season; he's not a Premier League quality footballer – one goal (vs Manchester City) 18 months ago doesn't make him that.

Our defence is a disgrace right across the board.

Gueye and Schneiderlin still here and starting... one question: just why?

It's as though nothing is ever learnt at Everton Football Club, it's like teaching a baby hieroglyphics.

Do the coaches tell Keane anything? He just ambles around like he is lost... unbelievable, and there were a few nearly as bad as him.

Pre-season has been grim but it counts for very little. Clearly there is buying and selling still to be done but the fact that our only signing so far was comfortably our best player bodes well for this new recruitment team who are charged with cleaning up the extraordinary mess left by Koeman and Walsh.

Digne is almost done apparently and everyone can see we need a new centre-back and some more pace in the middle. Hopefully we'll get it.

I fully expect Wolves to beat us but still feel pretty confident we'll be top 10 this season. And top 6 next.

So if I have this right, we should bring back Big Undies, and get rid of Silva. Wolves, Spurs and every ToffeeWebbers favourite team – the RS – are all going to murder us.

Other than that it's all good.

So much for giving our new manager a chance.

I would love to know the inside story of what has gone on over the last 2 years. The transfer strategy and decisions made appear to be catastrophic. Koeman brought in a load of players in their late 20s. The reason for doing that is for short-term gain for a season or 2 to try and crack the champions league. Unfortunately, that strategy always means you have to rebuild a couple of years later.

Even more unfortunately, the older players he brought in like Bolasie, Williams and Scneiderlinhave been awful so now we need a rebuild and we've gone down in the league.

Silva needs time to rebuild the club the same way Moyes did in 2002.

Anyone else notice Baines pulling up with a wince towards the end of the game, and for the remaining few minutes was seen nursing his groin?

We cannot repeat last season and go into this without a genuine Premier League-ready left-back to cover or repace Baines.

I know it's only pre season but this is embarrassing. I never understood the club's obsession with him... this season will be a disaster.

I've supported the club for 50 years and I've never been so worried – including the Mike Walker days. I'm sorry, Steve, I really wanted to believe you but I'm afraid you were talking bollox... nothing personal, mate.

We're not missing a few good players. We're missing a team!

The best players we have; Pickford, Holegate, Coleman, Gueye, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Lookman and Walcott aren't looking like something we can build on.

Buckle up. This season is going to be bumpy.

They must know the likes of Jags, Baines, Williams and Keane are simply not good enough for the top level same with Schneiderlin, Davies and Mirallas – I'm absolutely certain they are aware and hopefully by god we'll strengthen this really piss poor excuse of a squad

The first thing to do which will cost fuck all is to change the captaincy, I've said time and time again since the debacle over that penalty at home to West Brom that we lack leadership on the pitch and Jags is weak and has to be replicated now!

Winning becomes a habit as does losing and by god has it become such a habit for us lately.

Thanks for an excellent analysis.

Our midfield is woefully. Pedestrian, can't see a pass and constantly give the ball away.

The Rennes goalkeeper was rarely troubled. I think his first real intervention was around the 30 minute mark.

If we start with this 11 we will struggle to stay out of the bottom three.

Deeply worrying times.

Silva has got a lot of work to do turn Sandro into an effective wide player. I lost count of how many times he lost possession today and he is a liability when he tries to defend.

The players who remained on the bench must be thinking they have no future when they do not get a chance to replace these losers.

I keep repeating myself how quickly the start of season is, and we have very little time to bring in more players going on the amount of time we seem to take in negotiations.

For those who don't think we should worry about preseason games. Winning brings confidence, loosing causes complacency and doubt.

Rennes - a very lowly regional team in French football ?

Finished 5th in the French League last season, are in the Europa League group stages this season and were the only team to beat PSG in Paris last season. That does not mean Everton were not anything other than shite today – but Rennes are a good footballing side and there was plenty of evidence of that today.

He has brought in 1 player, a player that has basically been Everton's man of the match in the game and a half he has played. At least now he knows the size of the job he has.

What was apparent to even my uneducated eye today (in football terms) was that we cannot have a team that contains Baines, Keane, Jagielka and Schneiderlin together. Far too slow and nowhere near enough physical presence!

However I can see Silva's formation and style of play evident in each game we've played.

The chasm is the defence as many have rightly pointed to.

Asking players who are man markers to play zonal is tough sell.

Asking those players to play high without cover at full back is a big ask.

I can only imagine that Keane, Williams and Keane are place holders for the type of defender needed to play this type of footy.

The commitment to attack was there but never quite clicked, that is much nearer fruition than it feels.

So for me this despite some damning evidence to the contrary is not like Koeman, there is a plan and way to play, but we might be 5/6 games in until we see it happen.

I am aware they play in Ligue 1 and I accept the way I wrote what I did may give the impression they play at a lower level.

They are not, and have never been, a powerhouse of French football.

This is not a team we should be getting twatted 4-1 by.

For how long has Jags been captain? If he's still close to being the best liked player by the others in the squad, then he's failed his mission totally, when judged by our results on his watch!!!

There should be asses kicked on the field, not bowed heads stroked to share in their misery!

I am sure we can all agree on the names. They have been shite, Some we should never have bought, some where finished years ago but now is the time for Silva and Brands to get rid of them.

Easier said than done, I understand. Who knows what this season will bring but I know one thing if we keep the bulk of this squad then it is going to be a long hard season.

Silva and Brands need time and a few more transfer windows unless we can move them on in the next 12 days and replace them with younger, quality players.

Forget the new stadium, invest in the squad or we will have a shiny new stadium in the Championship. Premier League survival is key as gate receipts are pittance compared to tv money.

Do a Niasse to the waste of space players and keep them away from poisoning the players that play if we can't get rid.

- Stekelenburg
- Williams
- Jagielka
- Keane
- Baines
- Schneiderlin
- Gueye
- Sigurdsson
- Davies
- McCarthy
- Bolasie
- Mirallas
- Sandro

No more sentimentality, they should never have the privilege of wearing the Everton shirt again.

12 days (minus weekend as we never do business over a weekend for some reason) to get in:

Pickford
Coleman
Mina or other☆
Holgate
Digne☆
Defensive midfielder☆
Box-to-box midfielder☆
Walcott
Lookman or creative midfielder#
Richarlison
Tosun#

I see at least 4 priority marked as ☆
2 more if we still have time to do business marked as #.

Subs could be:
Hewelt
Kenny
Pennington
Baningime
Besic
Vlasic
Calvert-Lewin
Niasse

Or some promising kids from the U23s.

The players banished if can't be sold or won't leave, offer them a lump sum to finish contract early, if they don't accept. Have them on shit duty, cleaning toilets and other menial jobs, see how long they last.

Historically, his style and tactics don't necessarily suggest he will. Over to Brands really, a very early test of his tenure.

When Koeman came, I hoped he'd smash up the squad and overhaul it. He bought lots of players, couldn't blend them and ended up playing the old guard for their experience. Though I still think there was more to last summer than just Koeman.

We now have Silva, who has inherited an old guard of players 3 or 4 years past their best, players who never looked like they would win anything, regardless of the nostalgia on here.

Every good team has a spine. We need a left back, two commanding centre backs and a commanding centre midfielder.

The left back is coming and I hope he's as good as Mike Gaynes says. As for the others, a busy two weeks for Brands as it will be for Silva.

In truth, boring old Sam had seen the squad's limitations and had crawled into 8th spot by drilling and drilling those players into what we used to call KITANO.

With Silva re-introducing Martinez-style freedom, the inadequates have reverted to type and will surely bury him just as they did Martinez and Koeman.

I see no answer. This Walker-like manager can hardly be replaced much before Xmas and, given his record, with whom would Moshiri know whom to replace him?

Of course, Moyes would be proposed by Kenwright and the clock will be turned back 15 years. That's Everton 2018.

Not sure what Brands can do though. Didn't he say that as DoF it's not his job to set the tactics, it's the manager's?

I think that is the case whoever our manager now. Which league we may end up competitive in is the worry.

I could see us treading water with improved defence and just one creative midfielder.

We're only 3 new players away from having a very decent first team hopefully!

Silva has two weeks to buy replacements. Looking at how long it took to get Richarlison sorted, and how long we've been trying to convince the two Barca defenders to join, I have very little optimism. We could well end up panic-buying or loaning at the last minute.

I can understand your/our/all our frustrations with what we saw today and what I witnessed first hand at Blackburn on Thursday. All I am saying, using the evidence of my own eyes and the data at hand from last season, is that Rennes look like a pretty decent footballing side.

To be fair to Brands and the club, they are shifting players as fast as they can out of the club. Silva has said he needs at least six new players and we have been pursuing Mina since Colombia were knocked out of the World Cup. Given that we appear to be near to signing Digne, it seems that Brands and Silva recognise getting quality defenders is a priority too.

Koeman and Walsh's procurement strategy hangs like a millstone around our necks with inflated transfer fees paid and huge salaries to match – clearing them out will not be easy.

It's still pre-season and, while there is some concern, until we've played half-a-dozen league games, these comments ain't helpful. We're already getting revisionism on Big Sam's tenure in some posts like he did a fantastic job. He didn't!!

To be fair, I think people are joking when they call for Silva's head. And Sam didn't do a fantastic job, nobody thinks that, but I do think a few people believe he did a competent job in difficult circumstances. I know that I do.

I'm really glad he's gone, and I'm looking forward to more exciting times to come, but Silva has surely known all along what he was getting here.

If, when we kick off at Wolves, we're still trying to shoehorn the likes of Keane and Jagielka into a system that they're completely unsuited for, then Silva takes responsibility.

At least Moyes immediately got a grip by booting out a couple of liabilities, saving us from relegation. I fear that Silva is trying so hard to be a nice guy he is already being treated as a soft touch who can be ignored because he'll be gone by October. Sooner or later our luck is going to run out – and it's beginning to look like sooner.

I'm not one to be panicked by results in pre-season games, which are not a good indicator for competitive matches. But they do show what levels of commitment, fight, teamwork etc. we can expect. Little or none.

Also, please lay off the 'its only pre-season', 'Coleman should be captain' and 'give Silva a chance' shite.

As Tony said, (paraphrasing) the world and his dog must know what we need here judging from last season alone.

None of our problems appear to have been addressed, despite having now employed a 'super DOF' and a 'super coach'.

Talking of super coaches, I note Silva's agent is once again conspicuous by his absence after yet another 'shellacking'.

Come on, Stevie lad, explain to us mere mortals what's happening on the pitch?

Centre-half essential and a striker to deputise for Tosun because if he gets injured or his form takes a massive dip, we will be fucked.

We should be judging by the top 6 and does anyone who has watched the last 3/4 years and preseason honestly believe we won't get twatted by all of the top 6.

However it is amazing the difference 3 or 4 quality players will make as well as Pickford and Walcott coming back.

One or two centre-backs, a midfield dynamo and a proper goalscoring centre-forward will transform us.

The problem is attracting them to a club that is no longer considered a big club in England let alone the rest of the world.

Even if offensively they are still challenged, then surely the defence should be sound against a second-rate French team.

These are scary days, even if they are supposed to be warm-up games.

Things better get turned around in the next two weeks or Wolves will be licking their chops on 11 August.

It's not looking too good is it!

There appears to be no pattern or plan to our play and the old guard look jaded and not interested.

I fear a season of twatings no matter who we get in at this late stage.

Silva and Brands have inherited an extremely difficult situation, in a World Cup year, with a shortened transfer window. They have my sympathy. I am not judging either on what is still pre-season.

Nor can we judge what kind of squad we will go into the season with once the window shuts, although the clock is ticking rapidly on the time available to us to improve it.

I agree with you 100% when you say 'the [past] procurement strategy hangs like a millstone around our necks' and that clearing out some of them will not be easy.

I was very firmly in the camp that we do have talent in the squad who can benefit from being properly coached. Sadly, there is very little evidence of that to date in this pre-season.

Today provided no reassurance that the insipid nature of last season's team has been exorcised under the new management. In spite of all the enthusiastic interviews given by players since Silva arrived, we look as distant as ever from appearing to be on the cusp of an upturn in our fortunes.

Steve – Your knowledge and opinions are a big part of why ToffeeWeb is such a good site. All my love and care for you and your family.

If you are not, then accept my sympathies.

It doesn't matter how good a coach Marco Silva is, without pace, we will get taken apart every week. We've got 2 weeks to address this or relegation is a distinct possibility.

Pickford will be sold to the highest bidder.

Some positive but unless we sign a centre-back ASAP it is going to be a horrible season. This is still pre-season but has shown that there is an enormous amount to do

Michael (#303) pretty much my thoughts on the squad too, although I'd personally strike Pennington off the subs bench... I haven't seen enough out of him to merit it, but you're pretty much bang on.

Ach lads, all this "Silva should have known from watching clips" is nonsense. I get the premise of it but that's like saying watch some videos of Senna and you'll know how an F1 car performs and what you need to change and tweak.

You'll learn nothing watching clips of players under another manager, under totally different instruction and tactics to your own. Does anyone really doubt that Silva now has a firm grasp of the shite he has to deal with... I certainly don't.

He was never my first pick but he's our manager and I can see glimpses of what he's trying to do. The problem is too many of our players either can't be arsed or just aren't able to to it... or both. That's the reason so many of us have been saying the same thing under 4 different managers. That lets you know the common denominator is the players.

M and M definitely have their work cut out... not so much polishing a turd as rolling it in glitter. I don't expect miracles and honestly this is a long-term project. It'll take 4 good windows to make the changes to the squad that are really going to make a big impact in terms of properly moving us forward. Fingers crossed the deals that are being worked on and negotiated get across the line soon.

Oh and Tom (#319) Coleman should be captain ;)

Are we doing zonal marking, or not? Keane went haring off to the front post on both of the first goals, leaving emptiness where the scorers came in...

But I hoped for a lot more from Keane. What a disappointment he is. If all we bought for the rest of this window were defenders, you wouldn't hear me complaining.

All Silva had to do before getting the Everton job was to read the comments on ToffeeWeb then he would have hit the ground running, and got shut and bought quality, pronto. Now with 2 weeks to go, he is in difficulty already.

Jagielka, Baines, Schneiderlin, Mirallas and Sandro are all fancying their chances of playing week-in & week-out. What a mess!

We obviously need strengthening elsewhere but if we brought in nothing but quality defenders this window, it would be a damn good start.

That said, it will be poor judgement from the manager to continue with the same names and tactics in the hope that somehow things will click.

I am also of the opinion that there is no point trying to integrate certain players. The experiment with Sandro has failed – remember also that this is a player who went public in his desire not to want a return to the club when he was on loan. Mirallas too was not exactly complimentary so I am not exactly sure what kind of message to the rest of the squad it sends when these two are still given game time and deliver zero.

Williams meanwhile had never spoken of leaving the club but his disgraceful sending off against Burnley really should have been the end of his Everton career. We know he is no longer Premier League quality but he also has form in his petulance – remember the Lyon fracas.

Lastly, I really wanted Schneiderlin to recover his excellent early form but it is apparent that he is still capable of completely stinking out the gaff. It is bewildering that our expectations of him are so low that when he plays average (like he did against Blackburn) he ends up being lauded. Again, to me, it sends out a bad message to the squad that by simply not being utterly useless, you can earn plaudits.

I hope Silva realises that he needs to jettison these 4 players from his plans now. We do have enough cover for them, and the injured players will also be making a return. Furthermore, hopefully re-enforcements via the transfer market will be arriving soon.

The time for second chances is over and Silva must become more ruthless from here on if he is to have any chance of imposing his beliefs on these players.

If we don't recruit them then there should be uproar from the stands first home game.

How much did the Renne side cost? We can't find our level and no way can the two centre-backs start the first game.

Time has caught up with Jagielka and Keane should stick to cricket. He has no bottle and panicky, and overall I can't see any clear communication on the pitch, within the team

I'm being realistic but the season ahead is gonna be very tough. So much at stake and the team has not found any level.

Not SOS, time, but some soul-searching to be done the next few days.

Seamus to be captain or even Pickford as they both do care, but in Richarlison, there's genuine hope. But he can't do it on his own.

Bar a miracle, I see a dogfight of a season ahead...

I think you've hit on something with the four you name and maybe one or two others. Unfortunately that arch-skiver Ferguson is the only one at Finch Farm still on the first team coaching staff, although Unsworth may have an opinion worth listening to on what truly went on last season and the one before that, and the one before that come to that.

I said when he got the job that Silva would have to be Messianic to finish eighth this season and nothing I've seen thus far gives me any confidence of a second coming.

If we don't get 2 centre-backs – neither Keane, Jagielka or Williams should play for the first team again – we're going to be ripped apart by Man City, Spurs etc. Not only were they slow today but they can't pass and you need ball-playing centre-backs these days.

Another observation is that the modern game doesn't really lend itself to older players. Years ago, a good player could use his positional sense and experience and modify his game. But players are so athletic and fast now it's a young man's game.

Quality as well as Leadership is what we need

He's also the reason I'm a blue. He had at Wembley in my first season (1984) at the age of 5, the first of nine times he took me to Wembley in just 5 years.

My dad wasn't a big match going blue though. He was an excellent footballer in his own right playing for St Helens Town in the Northern Premier League when that was the fifth tier (before the football conference) as well as the Fords Works side. After winding his football career down he dropped to a lower standard and played for St Francis Xavier's Old Boys so he could play with my mum's brothers and his mates.

He went a lot as a lad in the 60s and early 70s. He's regaled me with many a story from those days and what it was like being a blue.

One memorable game for me was Everton v Derby one Boxing Day, Walter Smith era. It was memorable because it was 0-0, and neither side had a shot on target or a real chance. “That's me Stevie” he said, “I'm not paying to watch them again”.

I forced him to get corporate tickets for us, one last time before he retired. Can't remember the game, it was Martinez era and I think it was Newcastle and we smashed them in a meaningless end of season game. We spent a short time having a chat and a photo with mountfield.

After that I took him to a couple of Koeman games but he didn't enjoy the dour football and he was never one for sitting for long periods.

He was a good blue, even later in life when he said it didn't matter to him anymore, he still watched all the games on his firestick on the sly. He always knew what was happening. Even yesterday he said to me, “looks like your mates off”. “Who dad?” I asked wondering who on Earth he could mean, Pickford he said! I was away from ToffeeWeb for long enough to drive up to see him, that happens and he knew about it first!

I can't believe as I typed that, that was only just over 24 hours ago. I'd gone home last night still believing in a miracle, and today well let's just say the result reflects things perfectly. There's also been storms raging and that kind of feels appropriate.

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. Especially Dave. ToffeeWeb has been a perfect distraction so thanks for being there for me without realising it. I just hope none of you ever have a loved one get pancreatic cancer. It's the most brutal and ferocious thing anyone could get. It even took down the fittest and strongest man I know.

Hope your Dad gets the chance see a decent team from his new grandstand seat.

Sack Jagielka as captain and sell him.
Make Coleman captain.
Sell Williams, Keane, Geuye, Schneilderlin, Sandro, Bolasie and Martina.
Put Davies on the bench.

Buy two central defenders, a creative midfielder (Arteta type) and one other quality striker.

We are revisiting the same problems as last season because we have not tackled the glaring problems.

Leadership has gone... so replace, defensive frailties need replacements; a strong creative midfield spine is needed.

We need a manager who has the balls to look past the training field performances and interpret what happens on the field on the day of the match.

Be ruthless, Silva, and you will be rewarded.

He's in his bed fighting with everything he's got, maybe he can see out the weekend, but I just want him to go peacefully, I can't bear watching him suffer.

I've not commented for a while on ToffeeWeb. I was just too agitated for my own good.

However, tonight I am. My thoughts are with you, Blue Brother.

Puts everything into perspective. I wish you and your family all the best, pal.

Stek elenburg is not up to even being a back-up.
Baines is not good enough.
Jagielka is not good enough.
Keane is not good enough.
Schneiderlin is not good enough.
Sandro is not good enough.
Tosun will be back-up at most.

I feel none of these have a role in the first team and all command wages that back up /reserves don't deserve. Get rid.

We need 2 defenders beyond Digne, I'd go for Mawson and Mina. If Mina doesn't come a big money offer for De Ligt would be interesting.

In midfield, we need an enforcer. Someone big and dynamic. We also need an Arteta-like playmaker. Maybe that Zakaria can be the former, and a punt on someone like Quintero for the latter would be potentially fantastic.

Another striker is also needed, maybe Pavon from Boca could provide real class.

All very unlikely and a tough season awaits.

This squad bar half a dozen are not fit for purpose. I'm starting to think what the hell do they coach at Finch Farm.

I fear this season, will be unforgiving and as the old phrase is “we got battered” will happen even more than last season.

The clock is against us. The battle to save the season is on, like no other.

No thoughts about the other shower, but this team, bar a miracle will be exposed, ruthlessly, and the anti, is that the few gems, we have will be open to inducement and poaching.

EFC, C'est La Vie... Fekken take the pee, again and again. But 2 weeks to bankroll pure class or buy some very rough diamonds.

Another epic ahead...

Common TWs, like never before, we must unite for the epic battle ahead.

Does anyone see any semblance of a decent team and shape so far this pre-season?

Three weeks left and the transfer window will zip by. We've left it all too late.

Get rid of those I listed in my past message, please, Silva.

"Bring Allardyce back fast"

Plus plenty of other rather dubious comments on this thread.

It's amazing what whoppers we have following us these days...

It just shows how much we love EFC, but family comes first. It puts life, in perspective.

The Very Best, Steve and Family.

I expect nothing from the Wolves game as I do for most of the away games this coming season. Home form will decide our fate and, right now, that is very much in the air.

Though my gut tells me bottom 6 is where we will spend most of the season, unless real quality is brought in very very soon and those in the squad who are poisoning and stinking the place out are shipped out or loaned out asap. Moshiri's arse must be squeaking like there's no tomorrow.

This might also explain why Usmanov is considering selling up at Arsenal. EFC may just be on his radar.

Sincere condolences. I've just seen my dad pass from being invincible to dying with pneumonia and you're right to want him to see peace but he will know when he has had enough and will go in his own good time.

My dad was buried on Thursday with full Everton honours, not a red flower in sight, and the Everton crest on his coffin. Beautiful service at SFX church in Salisbury Street.

Just treasure all the wonderful memories he has given you and know that when he goes he won't be suffering any more.

All my sympathy, mate.

If I can just offer a slightly different view while also being fully empathetic of your correct situation. A few weeks ago my wife's father, whom we were incredibly close with, killed himsef. We didn't know he had a gun, complete shock. No last goodbye, we're all completely devistated while having to figure out how to move forward while now inheriting the responsibility of caring for her Mother.

So all I can say is, treasure every last minute and second because it is quite awful when that time is gone. I wish you and your family nothing but the best through this challenging time. We just wish we would have been able to say goodbye and let him know how loved he really is/was. Take care.

Enquanto atletas do nivel de Cuco Martina estiverem no clube sermos motivo de zombaria.

Nós, evertonians no Brasil, estamos muito tristes e envergonhados. COYB

We are all EFC true and blue, but life and family count first.

All The Very Best TWrs. Hope Eternal and Peace Ever Lasting.

My thoughts are with you. My father died earlier this year – those last few days were very strange, caught between wanting it not to happen and hoping for a swift and merciful end. It takes its toll on you, so look after yourself.

ps: No help from Jay on this one.

I agree with every word you're saying. I can't understand a word of Portuguese but really get a gist of how someone who supports Everton and speaks Portuguese could express their total disappointment and despair, as only they could. . .

I have only just picked up on this thread and I would like to add my thoughts and prayers for you and your family at this hugely difficult time. Hang tough, Steve.

My thoughts are with you and your family, over the next weeks and months when you think of your dad the same thoughts that bring a tear to your eye now will eventually bring a smile to your face.

All I can say is at least Silva knows he is out of time and he and Brands just have to act without delay.

He has probably gone to bed tonight thinking "Where the hell am I going to find 9 first team players in less than two weeks?"!

So... expect the same results!

May God be with you, your father and your family.

We have done this for the last few seasons, we keep changing players but as long as we start with two defensive midfielders we have lost! Zero defensive midfielders or one max and then have two creative midfielders running the game. (So we need to buy two centre midfielders fast.)

Even banished to the reserves they will still receive those salaries.

Silva was not my choice, but having said that, I do intend to back him, in fact I feel sorry for him, in that the squad he has inherited, seem reluctant, even at this early stage, to produce a modicum of commitment.

Let's also be fair to Silva, the one transfer to date, Richarlison, has outshone them all both in skill and application.

There is something inherently wrong at Everton, and has been so for years, can't quite put my finger on it, but poor decisions at Boardroom level have left us in the state we find ourselves in now.

Until we get a midfield unit, a collective unit that works, flows and supports its self, as opposed to the said collection of shite individuals, who play a la the Chuckle Brothers... me to you, you to me, usually backwards or sideways, then the defence and attack will continue to be weak.

The game is won and lost in the midfield, did I mention that?

I would be happy with Drinkwater and Spurs Dembele.

I thought maybe Mirallas may too have been included.

I would not disclude Ashley Williams either, these are all allegedly, senior pros, but such a bad influence.

I know what it is to hold their hand as they finally succumb to the inevitable. The numbness. The confusion. The conflict that the person who was always there for you has been taken from you, against the relief that their pain and suffering was finally at an end.

You will be seeing and hearing your dad on every street corner you walked down together. You will have speak-aloud conversations with him in an empty room. You will have moments of deep sadness, moments of rage, moments of uncontrollable, inconsolable tears. You will have moments of tranquility, quietly smiling to yourself at a wonderful memory. You will have moments of belly-aching laughter at other memories.

It is why you are his son and why you inherit the role of torchbearer from his flickering embers to continue to illuminate your own path with all the shared memories and lessons learned with him.

Peace be upon you, your father, and mother.

'The recent CEO appointment is another sick joke. Yet another example of jobs for the boys'.

Remind me, Tony, how far is Bramley-Moore Dock from the Pier Head?

Sadly, had that experience watching my father pass away. I wish you and your family strength to find your way through the coming hours.

Words are so inadequate at times like this and I wish I could be as eloquent as you when you post here.

My thoughts are with you and your family,

As you know, I lost my own dad to pancreatic cancer. It was only when you named it as the charity of your choice that I realised, that up until that point (many years later) I had not done a single thing to support the fight against it. That has since changed, but it was only by your drawing attention to the charity that I realised there was something I could do.

There are no words for you today son.

Look after your mam.

One thing I can say is that this club could really do with a boost right now. Confidence is such a precious commodity – and it feels like a long time since we had Roberto's feel good season. Bring me sunshine indeed.

We've had a substantial change at the club. Logic tells you we go backwards at first so maybe we shouldn't feel too concerned. Just give me something to feel good about, Everton.

Deep condolences, Jay Harris.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during these sad times.

I know this sounds morbid and my apologies if I'm being too forward, but be with your Dad now and if he has the ability to know you're there, it's precious. He saw you into the world, see him out if this is his time.

Prayers will be sent from America at Mass tomorrow.

God bless. My best to you and your family.

The Crowley's will pull a double-header prayer effort tomorrow.

Sad day on ToffeeWeb.

Steve, words Fail me at times like these, so, prayers are with you lad, you and your family. Take care.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during these sad times too.

Jay Harris and David Barks, my deepest condolences on your losses. As for the football, not worthy of comment compared to these posts.

"CAN I see another's woe,
And not be in sorrow too?
Can I see another's grief,
And not seek for kind relief?

Can I see a falling tear,
And not feel my sorrow's share?
Can a father see his child
Weep, nor be with sorrow fill'd?"

From Wikipedia-

Rennes was founded in 1901 under the name Stade Rennais and is one of the founding members of the first division of French football. Alongside Nantes, Rennes is one of the top football clubs in the region and the two are among the main clubs that contest the Derby Breton. The club's best finish in the league has been fourth with the club accomplishing this feat on four occasions, most recently in 2006–07. Rennes has won two Coupe de France titles in 1965 and 1971. After winning the Coupe de France in 1971, Rennes changed its name to its current version.

Best wishes from all your fellow Blues!

Central Defence needs a quality addition someone with pace, strength, and stature, someone who can organise, motivate and inspire the players in front of him and the defence alongside him. Silva's got 11 days to get him.

Centre Midfield, our midfield have been a bunch of strangers for far too long. It needs to be a cohesive fighting unit. We need a player to lead the midfield and be the driving force of the team. We have too many bridesmaids at the club .

We need true leaders and organisers in both the above positions or we will suffer the indignities we are seeing for another season .

CB is a massive priority, no1 for this window.

Centre Mid is not far behind . Move on Schneiderlin ( he could do a good job for someone) and get the right man, with the right attributes in for our team.

PS I am assuming the Digne deal is done, he is maybe having seconds thoughts .

The odds on blue relegation at skybet have come tumbling in from the 175/1 you mentioned to 33/1.

Maybe our esteemed leaders have taken out insurance on the worst case scenario.

My thoughts are are with Steve Fearns, Jay Harris and David Barks, wife and family. I'm sure there were a couple of others who had recently experienced bereavement, apologies for not recalling your names.

As I write, my sister is taking my dad's ashes to be scattered on a lake in the forest of Bowland. He passed in April, unfortunately through possible medical negligence. I take comfort that he lived to a good age and was relatively fit and active, till the day before he went into hospital.

Everton, are being typical Everton. Since my first game against Altrincham, they have always been the same. The trials and tribulations will continue, just as they did in the early 80's and then the 90's.

It could be worse though. At least we don't start every season by saying "This is our year, we'll win the Premier, we've got........" Fill in the blanks to suit.' Then come May, their disappointment is fulfilled.

Just like every other team in the Premier League, we have no entitlement to win it or avoid relegation. However, I've been lucky enough not to experience it, hopefully this season will be no different.

Shame those who turned on Ross were not quick enough to realise the problem was not him but the staff and shite he was surrounded with. I would have him back in a shot! And 'shot' being the word I'd use for maybe 10 others.

Long road ahead, boys, hopefully Walcott back and a partner for Holgate alongside Digne may give us some hope.

As you so rightly pointed out, the midfield are like strangers, and as for Centre Back?

I have harboured a feeling for a long time that Schneiderlin is a bad influence and should be nowhere near the starting line-up, some would argue that he has improved of late, admittedly so, but as soon as the Transfer window shuts he will revert to type.

It's looking increasingly likely we wont get Mina, apparently Manure are sniffing now, surely he's not the only option. I still maintain Alfie Mawson would be a great addition to the team, he has Prem experience, gives 110% every game and is solid.

I

It has not been a great week for Evertonians.

George, lovely words.

I've just seen the highlights he's an absolute embarrassment, a nightmare which has already happened.

Silva needs to ship him out ASAP, big Shaun Dyche must be having a giggle at our stupidity...

C'mon blues.

Steve, God bless mate. Take care of yourself and your loved ones.

I lost my dad the night before we whacked Chelsea, 3-0, Naiseys hatrick, coming up for 3 years ago, in September.

Life's never the same, but I took great solace in life time memories, many of which was going the match.

The club is rudderless and has no standards or ambition. The manager(s) know that, the players know that, and some of the fans know that. Everton is an easy touch for any mercenary, slacker, journeyman out there. Remember, we are a family and family accept you – no matter how shit you are.

I completely agree... the massive elephant in the room here is that we can all see this, the opposition can see it... but it appears no one at the club can... and so the band plays on, playing the same out of tune tune with the same tired old musicians.

We are sleepwalking into another nightmare season here and it's going to be the same old unlucky has-beens who are going to let everyone down.

My happiest sporting memory with my dad was when we (India) won the cricket World Cup at Lords as underdogs against the then-mighty West Indies in 1983.

Condolences, Jay Harris. You are both such important contributors to TW.

Now we can all blame the defenders all we like but all their goals came on the break, and the first 3 were all from wide areas because we have zero cover down our channels.

If people want to point the finger, then it should (in my view) be pointed at the manager for the system he's trying to play. It was suicidal football ala Martinez. You can play the 2 best centre-halves in world football if you have them but if you play that system they'll still get skinned and concede goals.

I don't rate Keane, and Jags isn't the player he was, but without any help it isn't actually their fault.

Was going to post about the game but seeing your posts made that irrelevant. Hope both your fathers find peace.

My thoughts are with you both – Shankly was wrong – there are more important things in life than football.

Steve, it was a pleasure to meet you recently at John's 80th and I think I know exactly what you're going through. Lovely words from George and I'll add my own prayers to those of Dave.

To Steve and Jay, I add my sympathies. I suspect quite a few on here will also have the empathy of having gone through this themselves, myself included. It's a lifestage thing, unavoidable in the end, though that does not make it any less desperate to deal with, when it's your turn.

Good luck.

What you and Steve have shared with us puts everything in its proper perspective. We are all going on about how poor Everton have been and here you are, both of you, going through such a terrible time...

The manager has to make clear his intentions of culling this squad but, with 11 days to go until the transfer window closes, it could be too late.

Aside from Coleman, no pace in the back 4. No heart or passion from some players, and no natural leader.

There has to be a shouting match to clear the air, get rid of the deadwood, and spark some fight.

For all his obvious on-the-ball ability, Schneiderlin lacks desire and, crucially real pace as a cover man for advancing full-backs. McCarthy could do this job, but for the 8 months of the season he is always injured we need someone else.

At centre-back, Holgate is injured, Keane turns slower than milk and our other options are in their mid-thirties. These are the two biggest glaring mistakes made by Koeman for me.

Pace is such a big part of the game for so many Premier League sides, but we can't cope with it defensively. It may be a long season, but I think we have the right team in place to fix the problem.

It was lovely to meet you at John's birthday and how we all get to meet up again sometime.

The point is that we let Rennes get into the position for the first 3 goals, regardless if there were then players chasing back for the incoming cross, and the 4th was also scored on the break when Baines & Coleman were out of position.

When we have the ball we play with 2 at the back which is madness – it will be our downfall this season, and I can't fathom why nobody else noticed it time & again yesterday.

If you're going to play with fullbacks pushed all the way up the field for every attack, you need cover at the back and we don't have it. Suicidal football.

I said the same all last season and still believe this is the case. We have a new manager who may get a bit more out of what we've got, but fundamentally the players simply aren't good enough. Davies, Kenny, Keane, Gueye, Niasse, Bolasie, Martina, Williams, Ramirez, Holgate, Pennington never have and never will be good enough by my reckoning.

We need 2 centre-backs, a left-back, and a midfielder that can pass and run with the ball. These 4 would be a bare minimum recruitment for me. Otherwise, we'll see a very similar season to last, I think.

Everton have had defensive concerns since Moyes left Everton 7 seasons ago.

As for the game, I am very worried about our defence. If this is the best central defence we can put out, we start to panic. Add to that, a goal, failure to put the ball in the back of the net and we look in deep trouble.

Last 2 games, 1 scored, 7 conceded against teams we should be beating. The 1st 2 goals were from breakaways but so simple. Our central defence is too slow, the gaps are there for everybody to see.

We badly need a central defender, Digne a welcome signing if it happens but we are really short in the middle. We have available Jagielka, Keane, Williams, Pennington and Holgate. Of these, the first 3 our experienced players are the least reliable. Williams might as well go, poor and slow, a last resort at the most.

Jags a great servant and excellent but sadly too slow. Keane, plenty of ability but very inconsistent, poor in the game, can only pray that he improves. Pennington has some promise but very inexperienced. Holgate, who hasn't played recently, probably our best and most consistent defender and has pace; otherwise sadly lacking.

The worst indictment in the match came in the second half when the commentator said he started behind Jags and Keane but finished ahead of them, when scoring – say no more. Let's get Mina or someone who can plug the gap.

The worse decision made (not picked up by anybody) was letting Funes Mori go, a good consistent left sided defender hard to come by who got injured, clearly a big mistake. Scores the occasional goal and brilliant at corners.

As for the rest, Schneiderlin dreadful, Gueye looking good, Davies again only a squad player at the most, Cenk looking in need of sharpness as is Gylfi. Mo Besic generally good should have come on for Gueye. Sandro working hard, never stopped, lacking in a little quality but worth a place on the bench. Niasse continues to try and is worth a place in the team because he scores and is often hard to handle.

Best player and the only one with real creativity was Richarlison.

We have a world class keeper but only Coleman is worth is place in the back 4. A midfield of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Gueye on paper should be excellent but they are performing very poorly, no understanding whatsoever. Richarlison has huge promise; Walcott can only get better; and Tosun is an excellent finisher.

The main problems are no leadership on the field, players who have failed for 3 or 4 managers been given places they don't deserve and the formation we play. I honestly think we need to dump the 4-3-3 and play a tighter 4-5-1.

We have to become hard to beat and tough to get through; we can beat Wolves on the opening day but 4 -3-3 ain't working.

Play 4-5-1 with the players below against Valencia, be hard to beat – a touch like 2004-05.

Pickford – World Class
Coleman – Captain and only verbal leader
Baines – Best we have
Holgate – Can only improve
Jagielka – Ancient but so much better than Williams
Walcott – Pace to burn
Gueye – Tackle like fuck
Schneiderlin – Who else have we got
Sigurdsson – Class, play behind Tosun
Richarlison – Skill and pace
Tosun – Work your balls off and take yer chance

1. We're crying out for a Midfield General, so sign Aaron Mooy; we also need a box-to-box Midfielder, so sign Ben Pearson of Preston... 㿀 million would bag 'em both... central midfield... Sorted!!!

2. Can we please stop playing games wearing all Blue... we always get fucking tonked!!!

Shrewsbury 2-1 Everton (the year they were relegated to the conference)
Everton 1-4 Blackburn
Dinamo Bucharest 5-1 Everton
Everton 0-4 Bolton
Everton 1-4 West Brom
Everton 0-1 Oldham
Everton 0-3 Wigan
It goes on and on... 12 games at Anfield: zero victories

To read what Steve, has told us about his dad, is really sad news, because he still had a lot of hope when we met for John's birthday only two weeks ago.

I'm gutted for you, Steve, and hope all the messages you have been getting can offer you a bit of comfort during such dark days, mate.

Cancer, just the mention of the word is enough to send shivers down anyone's spine, and getting back to Everton, Silva and Brands have got to remove something similar from our squad, because if they don't, we all know how horrible the outcome can be.

Jay Harris and David Barks, my deepest sympathy also goes out to you both.

Jay, heartfelt sympathies to your and your family as well. You are no doubt already feeling, as I did 26 years ago today, how much the world has changed when your dad is no longer in it.

My wife is the leader of an international Buddhist prayer group online. I'm not of that faith, but the Buddhists do have a different and fascinating perspective on death that is might comforting when one is in extremis, as I was a couple of years ago. If you gentlemen would be willing to post your fathers' names here, my wife will add them to the group's daily prayer list and their souls will be chanted for (and candles lit) by thousands of people worldwide.

David Barks, deepest condolences to your wife and family as well.

Tony, regarding your sentiments on cancer, Amen.

I mentioned on the forum yesterday during the debacle on the pitch, why do we employ managers that have failed elsewhere? We really need a winner as a manager but l have doubts we will ever attract one.

Do we have the right players and wrong manager or the right manager and the wrong players? I'm now at a loss to know what it is. Something is radically wrong somewhere and I seriously wonder if we will survive this season.

I now rarely get excited when we score, and l am not surprised when we lose; in 60 years of supporting Everton, that has never been the case until now.

Keep strong lads and prays to you both and your family's, unfortunately I know too well the affects of Cancer, Older brother and first born daughter at two.

Condolences and best wishes to you both at this time.

Unimaginable.

Very early in my treatment, when I was feeling a bit sorry for myself, a nurse walked me through the pediatric oncology wing. Saw the kids, and the parents. Devastating.

Never felt sorry for myself again. Also never had the courage to go back in.

Walking through the wards seeing younger than me in there was both heart breaking and very humbling. They seemed to have been dealing with the treatment/situation a lot better than I was.

I'm two years post treatment now. Havnt been back to Goodison in those 2 years due to a mixture of fatigue and finances.

Promised myself this incoming season that I'll make the trip with my soon to be wife. So I'm hoping Steve's faith in Silva is justified and that it allows me to enjoy an entertaining game with a home victory!

COYB.
Seems like we are made of stern stuff.

I would also wish to extend my condolences to both Steve and Jay. For what it's worth, I do feel that we at toffeeweb are an extended family and I look forward to reading everyone's comments.

Someone please tell me I am wrong.

I'd been a US Blue for 30 years when I got sick, had never been to Goodison and came very close to missing my chance. When I caught a fortunate remission and made the trip, it was the experience of a lifetime thanks to the overwhelming welcome from the TW contingent. And I saw two wins!

Planning to come back this season as well.

As can be said for us all on this forum, I don't agree with everyone but there is a lot of honesty from what I imagine are passionate, well-grounded Evertonians. Sadly, that is what is missing in our club now. The Moshiri era has just bought a load of poisonous Footballers Wives style caricatures such as Schneiderlin into our midst. He and Mirallas should never have kicked a ball for us again after last season's training incident. That is just one example of many.

We are also allegedly getting held at arms length by two Barcelona reserves whilst they await 'better offers'. Fuck them off and move on.

Give me a squad full of Coleman's any day. At the risk of sounding knee-jerk, our club seems rotten to the core at the moment and I fear a long season ahead.

While football plays a part in our lives, that's all it is [a part], and it's at times like this that we realise that are more important things happening all around us. Best wishes to you and your families, John.

According to all reputable reports, Digne was targeted by two clubs, us and Juve, but Juve has not put in an offer and Digne is flying to England today for a physical and signing with us tomorrow. (Assuming he's flying nonstop LA to Heathrow on either BritAir or Virgin, his flight would depart in about four hours from now and land around 10am tomorrow UK time.)

And Mina and his father are awaiting a statement from Barca management on whether Mina is in their plans before considering any offers, including ours. Barca's acquisition of Lenglet appears to close the door on Mina, but both are with the club on their current US tour.

If you're interested in tracking these, the most reliable English-language source/aggregator for Barca news is www.barcablaugranes.com.

John he reminded me so much of you with his knowledge of football and the stories he was able to tell me.

He died on 15th of July before I was able to get here. I wish I had made more effort to get over for your birthday drink but was holding on for his 92nd birthday in September. We gave him a good Everton send off though with only blue and white flowers allowed, an Everton crest on his coffin and a tour round Goodison in the hearse before he was laid to rest.

He is now at peace with me mam as she was affectionately known and would have loved all the people that came to see him off.

It seems like we will need all the luck we can get this season.

I thought Mina didn't travel with the squad but that was about a week ago; maybe he has now joined up.

Digne was listed among the subs, but did not play.

As for Mina, whatever happened to knocking on the manager's door and asking simply "Am I going to get a game?" What is his agent doing? He should be battering down the door to protect his clients interest.

In my eyes, that is being held at arms length by a Barcelona reserve. There are 11 days of the window left and if we let it play out, we will end up with no-one in a position that we are critically short in. To me that would be negligence and undermine Brands in his first proper test. I stand by every word of my post.

If we can get Digne over the line, followed by a Steven Nzonzi-esque central midfielder, and one good centre-back, because that Yerry Mina or not, we can then see how we fare until January where we can assess what more we need. Possibly a 20-goal-a-season player.

I can't help thinking that Mirallas and Williams are not just poor players, but bad influences on the rest of the squad. Sometimes, behind the scenes, you will get groups within squads and sometimes that can start mini-revolts if they don't like the way things are going. You can't tell me that these guys are round at each-other's houses and negatively gossiping, which doesn't help a squad.

Davies, in my eyes also has to be moved on. Blue or not, he is as lazy as they come. Already thinks he has made it, and has looked like taking his foot off the gas for at least a year. Bad influence. Just doesn't look like he cares.

Finally, what a breath of fresh air Richarlison is. He runs and runs, and chases lost balls. He uses his strength to get past players and tracks back to defend with excellent tackles too. The whole squad need to look at his energy and passion and mirror what he does, because he has shown more passion for a club he has no affiliation to in just one and a half games, it makes other established players look embarrassing.

Mina doesn't want to just get a game, he wants to be in the first team. His agent (his uncle) did ask. Nobody wants to leave Barca if they feel like they have a future there.

And generally speaking, if you're only interested in top-quality footballers who will drop everything and sign our first offer with total commitment without even considering potentially better offers from bigger clubs, you're dreaming. If Mina had snapped up our first (rumoured) 㿁m offer, he'd have missed out on what reportedly will be a 㿏m offer from Man Utd. And that would have been pretty stupid on his part, wouldn't it?

Finally, I strongly doubt Brands has every chip in on Mina. He'll have other CBs on his scope.

So I guess in context we are doing fiiiiiine.

Would have liked us to see if there was a chance of them taking Williams back in part exchange but it looks like we have put all our eggs in the Mina basket.

Zouma is also off somewhere. He would have been worth a shot on loan.

I just hope there is planty of action in the next 6 days.

What I will say, for the money Moshiri has spent/wasted over the last two and a half years on players and managers, I would have expected a couple of top quality players in amongst that lot.

It was a difficult night last night. My father refused a catheter and used all his strength to get himself to the toilet twice on his own. Today he rallied in the afternoon and was extremely lucid. He made me leave and go home. He even requested some food. The Cachexia has hold him and he has barely eaten a thing for 3 weeks now. It is this that is killing him. He sucked on an ice lolly (he couldn't actually eat anything) and had a glass of water and he had a good chat with myself and my sister, and so I adhered to his wish and went home and spent some quality time with my missus instead of "watching him" (as he put it). The man is so strong, so determined and refuses to give up. We know it's too late for a miracle now, and my mother just wants his suffering to end. But I am grateful we had a good chance to have a talk and it's like the strength of your thoughts and prayers helped. So I thank you all for that.

Mike that would be so lovely. My father is obviously still with us for now. His name is John Ferns.

Jay, your strength and dignity is an inspiration. I feel so angry all the time. When it happens I hope I can follow your example and that of Darren Murphy. I don't know how you got through that Darren.

Thanks so much all of you.

Best wishes to you and Jay for having the guts to speak out publicly about something so many folk suffer in silence about. Only by doing so can you receive the support you deserve and may need.

The old fella said it all today when he told me to go home. He said: “you know I love you, and I know you love me”.

Don't worry, I'm a strong guy. I've never been one to hide my feelings and so everyone knows what I'm going through, and is being supportive of me. Talking about things, getting upset, and getting past that feeling, it helps. So thanks Don.

My thoughts are with you and yours. I guess if your dad is raging against the dying of the light, it's his way. As hard as it is for you, all you can do is love him for being him. Like others on here, I lost my old man fairly recently, but I got back to the UK too late to say goodbye.

My condolences and respect to all others on this thread who have shared their losses.

Kia kaha - stand strong COYB

Get a grip, we are still in pre-season, we still have new players to come in and we know that we have to give Silva time to turn it around, it might take him a couple of years to get us ticking again.

Zero patience, you lot!

It's not nice watching your parents leave this world. I had the traumatic experience of seeing both my parents and mother / father-in-law leave this world before my very eyes all in the space of three years.

The following YouTube clip was sent to me today, and I find it very comforting and very symbolic of life. I hope you, and many others, feel the same. Stay strong mate, and hopefully we can perhaps meet up soon for a pint or two.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5M94TwA6oFY

On the football, I'm not happy that we aren't suddenly looking much improved but I guess, realistically, things could get a little worse before they get better. I wanted someone who could take us to the next level and that sort of transition isn't likely to be easy for a group of players who have fallen well short of what we all hope for. The older players are well on the downslope and I know each pre-season will be harder than the one before. Maybe some of them are pacing themselves a bit? It is after all, much more important that they are putting in peak performances when the season actually starts. Too early for me to judge Silva and Brands. A few more signings are a necessity and the impact of whoever they can attract will be a useful yardstick.

As for Sam Allardyce, the problem was not that he couldn't steady the ship long term, it was whether he could do much beyond that. Nothing has happened to change my belief that he couldn't.

The name John Ferns will be read tonight over the candles.

I'm not on here much these days, but stumbling across the thread-within-a-thread that has taken shape, I just want to say I am extremely saddened to hear of the situation you are both currently going through.

From interactions on here and reading your many posts over the years, the impression I have always taken away is that of a pair of strong, level-headed, characters. Those qualities will serve you well through this very trying time and are also a fine testament to the father's who surely helped instil them in you.

My own father passed five years ago now, from prostate cancer that had already progressed to his bones before he had even begun to suspect there may be something amiss. The last time I saw him, he was sat cursing the continual crapness of EFC after we'd watched them contrive to chuck away victory against the mighty Oldham in a turgid, televised, cup tie. Roused from a, seemingly permanent, soporific state by the superhuman urge to point out to his son precisely how shite Everton's performance had been. Like soft lad would, somehow, have failed to notice for himself and needed the more senior blue to hammer the severity of the situation home.

Kind of fitting, I suppose, as moans about Everton dropping multiple bollocks always had a monopoly on meetings between me and my old man. After a falling out, the first tentative step to getting back on good terms would generally be "did you watch the game?", followed by the sort of super-accentuated, disgusted, shared grimace Don Draper would have deemed absolutely perfect for that problematic 'Bag Of Shite' ad campaign.

Football was the one constant in our relationship, the common ground that kept casual conversation from grinding to a complete halt. Not that we didn't get on, or love one another, but there would have been a lingering undercurrent of awkwardness if togger was absent as a crutch. That was the entire reason I immersed myself so eagerly into all things Everton at a young age in the first place... to please my father...to understand what made him tick that little bit better...and to stop him thinking I was such an annoying little tit.

When I was a kid he was a complete stranger to me, working abroad for years on end due to the mass unemployment on Merseyside during the eighties. Being a few years younger, my sister had it worse I suppose. I always remember us coming home one day to find our dad, unexpectedly, stood in the kitchen and him kneeling down to speak to her. "Do you not know who I am?", he said, noticing the slight confusion on her face. "Yeah", she replied with tears welling up in her eyes, "You're Thomas Magnum". Next morning the minty eighties tash was gone for good and my sister suddenly twigged her chances of cruising about in a Ferrari had followed suit.

Par for the course for my arl fella, it seemed no sooner did his plane take off then so did the previously terrible Kendall team. He missed the 84 cup run, the entire 84/85 campaign, and came back for the climax of 85/86 and then he wondered why I kept asking him when he was pissing off again as the start of the 86/87 season inched closer and closer!

He celebrated Everton's most famous victory over Bayern Munich in South Africa with another bloke from Huyton he had met over there....a fellow blue whose idea of 'partying' was punching a fucking monkey in the face, after being pestered to have his picture taken with it for a pitiful fee. Understandably wary of being bounced up and down by a complete loon in a scratchy footie top with a brand of shit spam emblazoned across the front, the hairy little fella had hissed a warning at the blue bellend, and this bloke went absolutely ballistic and started leathering it until my arl fella threw him aside. Suddenly surrounded by an angry mob, the pair legged it and split up, only for my old man to be left looking over his shoulder all night in fear of being pointed out later by a vexed vermaat with a fat lip. He was always more hesitant in buddying up with fellow football supporters after that, particularly if I was tagging along.

So many of my memories of my own father are intertwined with memories of Everton, both good and bad, humorous and hurtful and, honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way.

In fact, the very last words my arl fella ever said to me were "Coming round to watch the replay?".

I did, but my dad couldn't make it.

Steve, Jay, I apologise for rambling on.

If you have made it this far (and I wouldn't blame you if you haven't), I will hold my hands up. It's late, I have (obviously) had a few drinks and I am about to have another right now while raising a toast to you both, your families, your respective fathers and my own father.

Sincere best wishes to you and your loved ones. Take care.

My sincere apologies. I was in and out of this thread yesterday morning and only noticed Steve's sad news.

Deepest sympathies to you and yours during this difficult period too and of course to David B.

My father died of lung cancer in 1980 and even after the passage of almost 40 years, I can still recall and feel his suffering.

No matter how well prepared you think you are, the event itself still brings a sense of shock, grief and loss.

Time is however, the healer and as many others have said, if, as seems clear, you have enjoyed a good relationship with your Dads, the happy memories will soon start to outweigh the immediate sadness at your loss.

It was a rotten time because my Granny, my mums ma died only 3 months before my mum on New Years Eve.
Cancer is a total bitch and to see my mums deteriation over those six months was heartbreaking.
Now my Dad is in the early stages of Dementia so it's been a rotten 8 years or so.
Chin up though guys because your grief will heal in time.

I am a Christian; I prayed for you and your family on the weekend when I heard your father was very ill, soon to pass.

So sorry to hear about your family, one lawyer to another. It's so difficult what to say for even the most articulate of us on this TW to offer you any comfort through the medium of words. But football aside, we all have human compassion when there are these personal matters is when even Evertonians put away our football even for just a moment, as family always comes first. As the bible says, there is a time for everything.

As a Christian I/ we believe that we will one day meet our lost ones in a dimension that we call 'heaven.' I know that many others on TW will not hold the same views. I am not shamed to mention Jesus - rather I am proud to. The only thing I care about it is that I may not do His name (Christianity) justice - I am not perfect; I am just human and make mistakes. If I could offer you something in this time Steve, it would be a hope you will see your father again some day in the same way that I/ we - as Christians - believe that we will see and be with our (lost) families again some day.

On a sporting note, I always look forward to your comments on Everton as we generally get a brilliant balance especially as lots were unsold on Silva; and to be fair, with the pre-season form some of us probably still aren't. As a lawyer, you're as passionate for your client/s rights just as you are passionate about your Everton - although both things are on different levels. All of us on TW share your love of Everton but can relate obviously when it comes to family, especially family who are very ill. We put sport to the side to help each other as our families will always come first. As above, there is a time or season for everything.

Time as others have alluded on here, on a different note, is also a great healer. I look at time like pictures from the past; a string of human events, it might be said. Time is so precious for each of us because as humans relative to time itself we live but moments. We, as Christians, believe God is infinite; outside time; no beginning and no end.

On a personal level I ask God to give you and your grieving family this time for His (Jesus) peace; His deep shalom which transcends all human understanding.

[We as Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit are one albeit they each have different jobs to do (The God-head). I trawled through Hansard public record, as you know where judges go to see what Parliament intended for the law. If you go back to about 1950 you will see them mentioning God. If just shows you that when we go through travail (suffering), even the brightest legal minds in our land believed would likely have believed in God.]

I pray that you and your family will be strengthened in this grief period/ time. You also have your memories from time with him which no one can take. Apparently memory is just recorded experience but it is powerful to reproduce past events: brain recorded voices, ie laughter, emotion, and 'the good and bad times.' You and your family will always have your father in your memories.

God bless, Steve

The one thing that this thread has brought home to me is how united we all are and as divisiveness increases around the world we should harness this emotion and turn it into a united force behind the club, manager and players.

We all think we see the answers that the club and others don't see and opinions are important but the only thing that really matters is success on the pitch and for that to happen we need to be united as the twelfth man and inspire some of the lesser performers to up their game.

John you didnt ramble on at all mate and I hope that your good memories with your dad will prevail.

I was not posting for a while when my dad got sick but now its a comfort for me and I hope it is for you and others who have gone through this very sad experience.

I'm very proud to have a caring family of blues along side me.

Nice one people.

I don't mean to give a daily update on my father, but I feel compelled to do so. The guy has got himself up out of bed and come down the stairs. He sheer strength of mind of the guy is astonishing. But I know your thoughts and prayers are helping so thank you so much.

I don't think he can have a Lazarus type return to health, he's too far gone. But I'm an eternal optimist. So I'll dream that this could be Limpar diving for that penalty and now we need Stuart to step up and bury it, and then the Wimbledon comeback could be on! Thanks, guys.

Thoughts and prayers are with you.

With Jesus all things are possible I know that but I understand the realistic situation.

Take care.

Thanks lads/ girls/ whomever, and yes I like that, the TW online community (Brent).

I have watched every single minute of each of our pre-season games and, to be honest, I have come to the conclusion that my beloved football club is in meltdown. We have been playing so badly for 12 months now that I for one can't see how we are going to get out of the hole that these underachieving players have dug.

We can't blame yet another manager – especially one who has only had a few weeks to work with the players. The players themselves must start to take the blame; some don't care, some are too old, and some are just not good enough.

Baines – can't get up and down as he used to but is a backup; we need a new left-back
Jagielka – again, getting on but backup for another season; we need a new centre-back
Keane – has no awareness of situations around him, always seems to be on the wrong foot; we need another new centre-back
Schnedierlin – not interested and does not want to be at the club... fuck him off; we need a new defensive midfielder
Tosun – in my opinion, and I hope I am wrong, but we need a true 20-goal-a-season striker and I don't think this guy is it; we need a new striker

But there is another issue that is much bigger than signings and that's the attitude that somebody has brought to our club, the attitude of "fuck the club and fuck the supporters". There has to be an investigation and the person or people who have infected the club must be removed.

I just hope it's not too late, even before a ball has been kicked this season. "Don't panic!"?? I bloody-well am!!!

My sincerest condolences as well. It's a long thread, and a heart-warming read with all the well-wishes, prayers and thoughts. My apologies for missing your need for the above - be assured I'll send a few up to the Big Man for you, your wife's Dad, and your family.

Steve Ferns - your Dad is a gladiator. Inspiring to say the least.

Mike Gaynes - when my second had to have meniscus surgery, he was placed in the children's oncology wing as there were no other beds. It was soul-crushing to walk those halls. Devastating. At one point I welled up and simply sprint-walked to my son's room so no one would see me almost lose it.

A perspective aligning, life-changing moment. We think we have problems. No we really don't comparatively. Cheers.

So, after he died, I got season tickets for me and my son for the first time and we travelled up every couple of weeks from Leicester and it brought us so close and it's stayed that way ever since.
(When my boy was 6 and first interested in football he wanted to support Chelsea. I told him he couldn't!! He had to support Everton or if he really wanted to he could support Leicester as that's where he lived. Thank God he made the right choice!!)

I love reading what you all have to say about Everton, I hate how much we've been let down but that really is how life often works! What matters is how you pick yourself up and keep going. So...Seamus for captain, get rid of the Williams, Mirallas and Sneiderlin posse and get some players who leave everything on the pitch. Winning a cup would be great and as for winning the league...well, a real team who fight for each other can do anything with the right support but sadly we're a long way from that, aren't we?

If anyone has a loved one who gets pancreatic cancer and wants to know more, I'd be happy for you to contact me, just email me on Stephen.Ferns@hotmail.co.uk

It's the most horrible form on cancer and we don't do enough in this country. If we lived in America, my dad would still be here now and fighting. I'm not saying he'd beat it, but he'd have had a better chance.

Tough time for you mate remember the happy times.

It is so hard to see someone so strong succumb to these awful diseases but at least he leaves you with so many fond memories that you can treasure.

I hope you've got lots of people around you to talk to.

I really feel for you and keep posting on ToffeeWeb it has been a source of relief for me and I'm sure it will be for you too.

Tough for awhile but you and your family will get through this and remember the great times with your dad, always remember them as it helps fight through the dark days man.

We'll win this game for him and all of our family and mates who died from a nasty disease.

Take it easy and hope to see your posts soon man.

We will all suffer bereavement, but even so, every death is individual, just as all of us are individuals and at the same time part of a larger community.

My thoughts are with you today.

Prayers and condolences to you and your family. 'May perpetual light shine upon him.'

As you can see from the comments, You and your family are in a lot of peoples thoughts today.

Me and me mam, who died of that horrible illness would argue all the time, we drove each other crackers, but whenever I think of her now, all the memories are happy ones and always, always, make me laugh. God bless you and your family, Steve, at this very sad time.