What is Moshiri thinking?

If he wins at Leicester and at the RS then I would be ecstatic. You'll have to forgive my doubts on that front.

However, it's time to turn it in now.

Please.

If you don't throw good money after bad you don't stick with a serial loser. And you will never back them in a transfer window.

I thought your silence after Saturday was a time for reflection. Your first posts after that seemed to be a considered departure from your misplaced faith in Silva. But now you're back to your old self. It seems like you will never shift from that standpoint now, and while I respect your loyalty to this charlatan I will never respect the damage he is doing to this club so I have to say you're wrong. He is wrong. The board are wrong for their inaction. And that's why we're completely f**ked here.

"1. MONEY. sometimes you need to not throw good money after bad". But arguably that is what we're doing in keeping Silva. And arguably another manager would be good money after good (come on, Stephens, so who would you replace him with?!).

"2. STATISTICS". I don't have an argument against the use of metrics except to say that I'm not sure of their validity - a weak response from me - we are where we are in the league and in the qaulity of our performances.

"3. FINCH FARM. hardworking and spends long periods of time at the training facility. He is also said to be friendly and approachable... Brands is unlikely to find that there is much more that can be done on the training ground" [my emphasis]. Hard work and approachability do need to be supplemented with more than what he's doing on the training ground - it's output / outcome that matters.

"4. PUTTING THINGS RIGHT - Silva has given up on zonal marking. There is other issues that are fixable, such as preventing players making individual mistakes that have led to goals that led to losses. For example, we have lost a lot of games where we were the team who had the better of the game up until conceding and were effectively hit with a sucker punch. That can be fixed by addressing the issues leading to the goals in training, altering the level of the defensive line (ie how high we are up the pitch), by signing a better player in January". That seems to contradict 3 in suggesting that more CAN be done on the training ground. But give Silva his due if he has conceded mistakes such as zonal non-marking. Maybe there's hope yet!

"5. VAR...Moshiri still has faith in Silva, as I still have faith in Silva. so there may be some parallels". It isn't in Silva's gift to influence VAR, so I don't see it as relevant to keeping / retaining him.

"6. THE SQUAD". Agree entirely that Silva (would have) wanted replacements for those we lost.

"7 THE PLAYERS...too scared to play football". Arguably as manager he should be putting that right. But if they can't be changed in this respect, then a wholesale clear-out is needed - massively worrying.

Thanks, Steve.

To be so abjectly diabolical in every way shape and form against bottom of the table newly promoted Norwich and to get our arses handed to us in our very own back yard was absolutely scandalous.

The tactics, team selection, mind set and half arsed approach was all down to him.

He has to go, a nice guy maybe but how can you say he's a good coach when direct evidence in the premiership at Hull, Watford and now Everton clearly demonstrate he's not.

Sometimes Steve you talk about Silva likes he's some managerial giant but in reality he's a nobody. The harsh reality is he's failed massively in the only meaningful league he's had a go at managing in.

His career in the premiership is now well and truly over and rightly so.

Putting things right. You have been saying the same thing after every game

VAR and other excuses have been used after every game since he took over. You do realise other teams have injuries and have been on the wrong end of VAR

The Players. Well it's Silva's job to play a system to suit what he has, use tactics to suit the team. Motivate the players. Everything he has been sadly unable or unwilling to do.

Sorry Steve you really are clutching at straws there with that rambling

I admire your undying loyalty to Silva but after the horrendous complete shambles of Norwich I thought even you would finally admit the charlatan had to go, obviously not.

You're a good guy who is loyal, passionate and knowledgeable. You still have a lot of respect on here mate however you are damaging your own credibility and reputation for this clown.

Posters on here know their Everton. Some of them a damn sight better than you and I. Let it go dude. Call it. Know when to fold them.

I said you were all over the shop, Steve, because I think you are trying to square a circle. As Brent says, it's massively worrying. I don't consider Silva to be entirely to blame, far from it, and while I want to provide no excuse for our unimpressive Board, I do understand that they will be keenly aware of what is at stake.

Complex and horrible. We need luck, for once.

Tony, all the best managers are lucky managers. We need a lucky one more than a good one.

I think l might write my first ever ToffeeWeb article, gonna call it;

What Is Steve Ferns Smoking?

He has a chance on Sunday to extend his stay at the club. I hope he takes it.

If it wasn't his whose was it? The way the team plays, what he says?

Do you not think a year plus is long enough to change it?

Ken, Silva has no influence on the buying or selling. That's Brands remit. How is Silva meant to stop Brands selling a player?

That exact same team battered Saints last week, especially first half. So how come all of a sudden they lacked pace? His selections seem fine to me. It's his tactics that are atrocious.

It's all gone wrong since that glimmer of hope in the last 8-10 games of last season. There is mitigating circumstances, Injuries, Gana, Zouma, and maybe most of all losing his right arm in JPS.

But it ends there, team selections, formations, substitutions have all been poor. We have never really looked a coherent and solid force apart from sporadically at the end of last season.

All this was evident way before Norwich where was the reaction against Burnley 6 weeks ago after losing 3 on the bounce. Another insipid and disorganised display. the writing was on the wall a long time ago. The board have already waited too long.

He has tried and failed, he has fallen way short. Not good enough for EFC.

The sooner we make the change the better.

What do you think will turn these metrics into improved results?

I'm looking at our squad and looking at those of, say, Sheff Utd & Burnley. Are their players better? Or are their managers getting more out of them?

I'm struggling with the idea that Silva is a good coach, he wants the players to play quicker, yet they don't. Looks to me as though he's not sure about the quicker players; he trusts the slower, 'safer' players more and is caught between two stools.

You're right that confidence is a huge issue. To me, that stems from the managers ability to communicate and motivate. The biggest flaw of Martinez, Koeman and now Silva is their apparent inability to turn a team that's on the slide. It's not inevitable, the good managers turn it round before it becomes a rot.

It's entirely possible that if your metrics are consistent and we are likely to keep hitting them, that things may well change. Given what my eyes have seen during Silva's reign, I'd suggest that's a very, very threadbare straw you're clutching.

But as ever, I hope you're right and the unlikely happens!

It's an attempt by Steve at rationalising Moshiri/Brand's reasoning for the stay of execution.

I'd suggest a very simple alternative: they will not let him go until a replacement is in the bag.

Also re Zouma & Gueye: not an excuse. We lost 8 out of 12 last season with both in the team.

Zonal marking cost us dearly last season and this. That now has been rectified, but an inability to recover from going behind is another horrible Achilles heel.

Both flaws present with & without Zouma and Gueye in the team.

You and me definitely have different standards for a Everton Steve and if Moshiri is thinking what you are saying then we might as well put the closed signs up at Goodison and finch farm because we are finished.

I will address only two of your many points. On #4, Silva has NOT, repeat NOT, set things right on corners. Perhaps he has given up on zonal marking, perhaps not, but the simple fact is that we gave up two more wide open back post opportunities against Norwich. On one, the header was somehow missed over the bar from eight yards. On the other, the target of the corner stumbled and the ball was uneventfully cleared. But on both the attacker was alone. Unmarked. And as for our own corners, they remain a joke. We tried another Silva training ground routine, and the result again was chaos. There is nothing more basic than executing on corner kicks, and Everton cannot because Silva cannot coach them. Set things right? No, he has not.

And regarding #6, yes, Gueye left a yawning chasm that has yet to be filled, but I am just plain sick to death of the pathetic whining over the "hole" left by Zouma and the "failure" to sign him. To be clear, Zouma was never ours and Chelsea was never going to sell him after losing Rudiger and Luiz. Never. Furthermore, Mina has replaced him very nicely. Until the Norwich game Mina would have been my nominee for our Player of the Season thus far, and he is right now a better player than Zouma was at the same time last year (folks have forgotten what a rough autumn 2018 Zouma had). So Silva may have one personnel excuse, but not two.

And Steve, one point you haven't addressed is the lack of spirit in the team, the lack of togetherness and cohesion, the lack of mutual accountability. Silva holds no one accountable for lack of commitment -- players not performing still keep their jobs -- and therefore the players don't do it for each other. The manager's most important job is to set the tone for his club, and Silva is tone-deaf, so this club is an off-key cacophony on the pitch. There is no one else to blame for that.

One more thing. You are welcome to your belief about Silva's continued employment, but I believe that the only reason Silva is still the manager is because Moshiri and Brands have been unable to come to an agreement with their preferred replacement for him. I offer no evidence to support this claim, but I believe it will eventually be confirmed.

The way Silva flourishes - especially with Sigurdsson (and to some extent Schneiderlin) is when teams come at us. It stretches the game, allows us the press and affords Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Walcott (in this instance) space to move into behind the midfield.

When we scored early, Saints were forced to become more expansive (you can't sit back at home when you're losing), it played into Silvas hands and we look good. That's why we look good against the better teams.

Against Norwich, they were more compact and we couldn't break them down (like usual). Sigurdsson, Richarlison and Walcott don't have the nous about them to when there is no space behind the midfield and we look dreadful. Schneiderlin offers nothing because he stays in the same little area (great when teams are attacking this area - pointless when they're not).

We will only ever look good against the poorer teams if we manage to score first and they have to come at us.

That's one of the fundamental reasons why we have never won from behind. Silva is clueless against defensive minded teams.

Kevin #26, excellent post. If we agree, something must be very wrong!

But even ignoring that, are you in favor of a manager putting the same lineup out regardless of the next opponent's style, formation, whether you're home or away, etc., or just because that same lineup won the previous game? In this case they are mutually exclusive.

Follow-up question: are you in favor of Tosun, Schneiderlin, and Sigurdsson continuing to get important minutes, let alone start?

Fair play to you, lad. You knew as you were penning this piece that you were going to be stoned by some. Many of those throwing the stones would not dare put their heads above the parapet and pen an article of their own. In football, there is always a chance. Anybody wanting to deny that must be new to the game.

Leicester are flying at the moment. Their confidence is sky-high; ours, on the other hand, is on the floor, but this set players have beaten that set of Leicester players before. We will need luck, but it's nowhere near the forlorn hope some are portraying it. The Bookies will offer a stingy 4/1 on it happening.

The trip to Mordor seems like mission impossible right now, but I'm not prepared to write that one off either. They have not been as convincing as the bare results would suggest recently. Their luck must be stretching to snapping point.

We need to approach this aggressively. The longer they go unbeaten, the more they will feel the pressure and we all know, the very last team their fans want to lose to is us. If we can go there focused and aggressive, cut out the stupid individual mistakes that have so dogged us and eroded confidence, stay in the game or better, take a lead, they will start to feel the pressure increase in exactly the same way it did at the Old Lady a few short months ago.

Look, we all know the size of the task. You will get around 8/1 for us to win at Anfield. The 45/1 on offer for us to win both games will not tempt the shrewd punters... but the way I see it is we have two choices:

We back the "Dead-man-walking" and his team to the hilt over the next week or so; try to generate a defiant "fuck you" attitude in the face of overwhelming odds. Or we can accept our fate and simply throw the towel in.

You are right to remain defiant, Steve. The day I throw the towel in is the day I have attended my last match and I'm not quite ready to do that yet. I'd rather the hope killed me than the fucking apathy.

I have to disagree. We played EXACTLY like a Silva team against Norwich. These type of performances have been the norm under him - all be it not quite as bad as we were on Saturday.

"a lot of energy, a high tempo, a lot of pressing and closing down, quick passing," I could count on one hand the amount of games we have played like that under Silva.

Silva has had plenty of time to show us if he is a good coach/manager and he has failed miserably. Time to move on.

Brian @30 above, I've seen a lot of your posts that are singularly focused on getting Silva out as quickly as the taxi can get to Goodison. No problem there. But I can't remember any of those posts also naming who you personally want, and believe we can get. I would ask that you not say "anyone" as that's not really an answer to begin with.

Steve needs to decide is he an Everton supporter or a Marco Silva supporter?

As far as speculating, I'm sure you've read the exact same last 10 threads about the exact same thing as I have. It's not like there are 500 options, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the Board is acutely aware of that. I stated my choice. What's yours while we're on the subject?

I have to say though that his demeanor as a leader doesn't inspire confidence and he has made poor decisions on too many occasions this season.
In his defence I said earlier in another thread that he's the same manager who led the team to excellent results at the end of last season, the only difference is he has a different squad of players to choose from now.
So who's to blame, is the squad weaker, is it down to injuries to important players or has he been found wanting.
The answer is probably some of each, but at the end of the day the buck stop with him and its just not been good enough!

I don't see him winning the majority of fans over onto his side again, so its only a very short time before he will be gone.

But ( you knew it was coming) I have to take you up on a couple of things, You appear to paint the Norwich game for you as an "epiphany" that you had finally noticed something after all the scrutiny and stats which you hadnt noticed before ?

To me it was an exact replay of Burnley,Sheff Utd, B/mouth ( Their manager is one for the future!!) Villa and any number of games in middle of last season (remember that run phew !!!)

Too much has gone wrong for you to be right. I feel even if he gets lucky in the next couple of games ( and it is possible ) he is never going to deliver anything but stagnant dreary rigid football, clueless attacking and circus-esque defending

I firmly believe if Mosh is wanting to keep Silva is solely because their are not many Billioinaires who enjoy looking foolish,

I am genuinely hoping whoever we get in, you are happy to study and add your valued insight on and maybe this time the favourable stats will actually match what we see on the pitch and more importantly the results

I want us fired up, hard to beat and blood & thunder again. You can save the fancy football for another fancy clever manager further down the line when the squad has been rebuilt form the ground up and we can play that brand of football.

He needs players that will stand up and be counted now, and when I think about this, then this is when I start to worry about Anfield.

Agree with Darren, we can't throw in the towel, and if people think Steve's deluded, who knows, maybe Twatkinson, might even overrule the birkenheader next Wednesday night! (Okay, but if he does? I already know the answer)

I mentioned on the Arteta thread that out of the list of names being mentioned he {Arteta) would be my my No.1 pick from the realistic possibilities. A gamble, yes, but so would almost any manager we can get our hands on.

I would be willing to "forgive" Benitez for his past sins if he came as his record as a manager is very impressive.

If it was up to me I would sack Silva now and put Unsworth in temporary charge while the hunt for a permanent manager continues.

I know that too is somewhat risky, and lessens our bargaining power in negotiations but I honestly feel Unsworth has a better chance of getting something out of the tough run of games ahead of us than Silva.

IMO it amounts to wishful thinking on your part as a means not to ultimately have been proven wrong on Silva.

The news blackout on the burning issue from Everton since Saturday does not necessarily, as you claim, amount to: "it seems certain that Moshiri still has faith in Silva."

To go through your points:

1. Money - "as a successful businessman, you know sometimes you need to not throw good money after bad."

Exactly. With Silva reportedly 'only' on £3 million pa, when balanced against the prize money received per finishing place (up to £2 million per position), sacking Silva and paying off his salary is chicken feed which could easily be recuperated with a more effective coach in place. And that's without taking into consideration the very worst case scenario of (whisper it) relegation and the potential losses that would incur.

2. Statistics - the very statistics you use to praise Silva can be flipped to damn him. Top 6 in attacking metrics, but averaging a goal per game - 13 in 13 (the equal 4th worst) - as our transitions from defence to attack are so ponderous and rarely can we find our three most advanced players in the same post code to trouble the opposition.

2nd for preventing chances against and top 4 for expected goals against, but with 20 conceded in 13 we have the 5th worst defence in the league.

The most damning stat of all is the one you don't reference: Saturday's loss to Norwich extends to 23 games in Silva's 51 PL games with Everton that the opposition has scored first and the Blues have NEVER come back to win.

That represents a whopping 45% of all his PL games as Everton manager. The 23 game record reads:

P 23 W 0 D 4 L 19 F 14 A 44 Pts 4 out of a possible 69, a minus goal difference of 30.

Such numbers, which are being repeated this season as they were last, chops our hoped-for progress off at the knees.

In the majority of those games - as Norwich did on Saturday - the opposition does not have to play particularly well, do anything extraordinary, or be potent. Keep your shape. Be organized. Maintain discipline, and your rewards will come.

3. Finch Farm - it "is unlikely to find that there is much more that can be done on the training ground." If that is truly the case, if Silva has exhausted all the ways to improve the team and results, sack him NOW! Regardless of whether we have a replacement lined up or not.

4. Putting things right - as already pointed out by others, this seemingly directly contradicts point 3. I also think you are watching the game through Silva-hued glasses if you continue to claim "we have lost a lot of games where we were the team who had the better of the game up until conceding and being hit with a sucker punch."

We have rarely, if ever, put together a good 90 minutes over the course of a game in Silva's entire tenure. This season the paucity of joined up football barely extends beyond 15-20 minutes in any one game.

5. VAR - has not treated us well. Other teams have, and will, also suffer. Absolutely nothing to do with Silva and what he can deliver.

6. The squad - can always be improved, but it is not radically different from the one that finished last season so well. But to now claim Silva "has been short-changed" by losing Zouma and Gueye is a huge flip by you Steve when game after game after game you kept repeating the mantra last season that Gana "was not a Silva player" and that he was a liability and ill-disciplined when others challenged you and argued how fundamentally important he was to the team. Injuries have not helped. Not all positions were covered adequately in the transfer market, but as a high-earning manager, you do the best you can with what you've got. And Silva is not doing very well.

7. The players - if Silva, as you claim, "wants us to play a fast game of football" he is certainly disguising this desire.

By the end of last season, as benefits any team, nice partnerships were forming across the park. The Dein-Bernard combo; Richarlison and Coleman; Siggy and DCL; Keane and Zouma. And each pairing was dovetailing nicely into the other combos.

It should have been easy for Silva to build on that going into this season, all the more so with the undeniably benevolent fixture list of the opening dozen games. But we haven't come close to reviving the verve and instinctive play they displayed from Cardiff away onwards last season.

The players are not exempt from blame, but we all know how football works. The one who ultimately pays for poor results and a lowly league position is the manager.

I don't accept how you glibly pass it off that his Norwich selection "was not a Marco Silva side" or the way he likes to play. Again, if that is the case, if he is not staying true to his 'principles', then possibly it is yet another sign of a man lacking in confidence in his own ability and methods. If so, it constitutes another reason to look elsewhere.

For me, not a convincing case of second-guessing Moshiri's thoughts you offer at all, I'm afraid Steve.

Brian @38, how funny, we want the same guy! I would also stomach Benitez. Well, maybe stomach is the wrong word for me to use. Not being from Liverpool, I don't have the inherent hatred and/or vitriol toward them and everything related to them that many do. So yeah, sign me up for Rafa too even though I don't find his football all that exciting. Where we differ is that I canNOT stomach the interim/caretaker route. Though I'm also of the opinion that relegation, while possible, is very highly unlikely. Not because of our form, but because of the equally crappy form of the table this year. Oh, and thanks for your answer too.

Rob H @39 "Yes, even the likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Tosun if they are playing." Sorry mate, you lost me here ;-)

Jay W @40 do you understand xG and the like (stats)? "2. The very statistics you use to praise Silva can be flipped to damn him. Top 6 in attacking metrics, but averaging a goal per game - 13 in 13 (the equal 4th worst) - as our transitions from defence to attack are so ponderous and rarely can we find our three most advanced players in the same post code to trouble the opposition." This makes it sound like you don't to be honest. I believe what Steve is alluding to is that xG indicates we should be 5th in the table. How much stock you put into that is entirely up to you.

This may not be Silva's Everton in your opinion but it certainly isn't mine.

The number of occasions we have had a "Norwich" moment particularly this season would have set alarm bells ringing long ago in the corridors of power of ambitious clubs such that it would have been sorted out well before a "Norwich" moment.

The team even when doing well remains unconvincing and characterless. It lacks strength and resilience but contains dangerous levels of apathy and timidity.

In 18 months and 200m later I see no improvement nor leadership from management yet I see all the symptoms of Hull and Watford. "Moments" yes but over a season the man gets found out and found wanting.

Personally I would have ordered a taxi weeks ago. I don't think anyone at the club would have done a worse job while we looked around for somebody decent Maybe Mourhino might have been available then. We will never know because the boardroom is just as bad as Silva.

However I think the damage has already been done and to leave him in charge any further is suicidal. Could Unsy do any worse in the next two games or would we get some "the manager is sacked" bounce.

One things for sure Silva has proved incapable of getting a tune out of these players and will be seriously out of tune if left in charge any longer under these circumstances.

This may not be Silva's Everton in your opinion but it certainly isn't mine.

The number of occasions we have had a "Norwich" moment particularly this season would have set alarm bells ringing long ago in the corridors of power of ambitious clubs such that it would have been sorted out well before a "Norwich" moment.

The team even when doing well remains unconvincing and characterless. It lacks strength and resilience but contains dangerous levels of apathy and timidity.

In 18 months and 200m later I see no improvement nor leadership from management yet I see all the symptoms of Hull and Watford. "Moments" yes but over a season the man gets found out and found wanting.

Personally I would have ordered a taxi weeks ago. I don't think anyone at the club would have done a worse job while we looked around for somebody decent Maybe Mourhino might have been available then. We will never know because the boardroom is just as bad as Silva.

However I think the damage has already been done and to leave him in charge any further is suicidal. Could Unsy do any worse in the next two games or would we get some "the manager is sacked" bounce.

One things for sure Silva has proved incapable of getting a tune out of these players and will be seriously out of tune if left in charge any longer under these circumstances.

If Silva was to win against Leicester and the dark side, I would be on board for another couple of months. If Silva is sacked, finding another manager that would not alienate part of the fan base will be difficult.

Poch, almost certainly, will not come here.
Wenger and Benitez have just started lucrative jobs.
If these pages are to be taken as a reflecting opinion of the fan base, the home grown alternatives of Wilder, Moise, Howe and Dyche, are somehow not good enough for us and Arteta or Cahill too inexperienced and risky.

That leaves Ancelotti or some up and coming Dutch/European or South American manager that I, for one, would be ignorant of.

For the mess we are in the board are culpable and sacking Silva and spinning the wheel may have to be done. But no one will be a given.

The premier league eats even talented managers for breakfast.

By the way I watched the Libertadores game last night. Gabigol did nothing for most of the game then suddenly game alive and won them the game. If only we had a striker capable of that.

I responded PRECISELY to the statements and stats Steve himself put up, NOT to something you retrospectively now claim:

"I believe what Steve is alluding to is that xG indicates we should be 5th in the table."

Steve didn't reference xG or the fictional position of where we should be in the table, at all.

Do you understand that?

U21s one down already.

Just asking Steve, we don't hear from Richard Dodd anymore, do you know something that we don't?

Rob @44 I guess everyone has their panties in such a bunch that sarcasm isn't coming across on the interwebs. I know exactly what you were saying, and meant. I was making a joke that I can't support those 3 clowns as in haha, they stink haha. Of course I will, but I reserve my right to do so begrudgingly. I'll only speak in a literal sense

I unfortunately cannot agree with you over a couple of points.

1/ I think our board of directors are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike (when it comes to football)

2/ if Silva is the next Mourinho (which most doubt) he is either being gagged or does not have the cahunas to speak up and throw Brands under the bus. (With regard to signings or lack of them)

3/ He has by all accounts one or two very talented youngsters in the U23 team. Why has he not given them a go?

The definition of stupidity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

We expect a team put together at an eye watering cost to play attractive team football with individual moments of brilliance. I have not seen either during his tenure so far.
The last time I saw anything like was the cup win v Chelsea.

P.S. did she rinse your wallet at the Trafford centre? I normally get stung then mugged in the food court on the way out.

All the XGs, possession stats or any other statistical measure won't help our results, simply start scoring more goals and stop gifting opponents time and space in our last third and we may be able to grind out some very useful points.

Any thoughts of top half should be put to bed until we have gained enough points for survival, trying to play our way out of a crisis will not work and that is where Silva lets himself down, pragmatism is sometimes a necessity and playing 'luxury' players such as Siggy, Walcott and Tosun in the starting line-up isn't what's required when the team is struggling for form.

Then after the game he came out with a flippant comment over whether he would remain suggesting to me at least that whatever is going on in the background he's ready to go.

I wonder your thoughts on this

You say the guys I follow say Everton are in a false position. Who are these guys you are referring to?

Also you say these guys have been saying for some time that Everton will improve soon. Do you think maybe it might be time to stop listening to them considering that they have told you Everton would improve For a long time and nothing has improved. Maybe it's time to question whether these guys know what they are talking about.

I'd stick until Jan, and reassess. We'd likely lose any bounce a new manager would have given our upcoming fixtures. And I can't think of anybody we could realistically get right now I'd prefer to Silva, as disappointing as Silva's been.

I agree, a huge slice of it's down to luck. Can you train chemistry? Can you force things to click? I dunno. May be if you're Guardiola or Klopp (Klopp would get our current squad in the top four, no doubts... how did that shower get so lucky, grim as fuck watching them walk away with it).

For the majority who say get rid, what next? I still think Silva can achieve top 10 (albeit still not good enough) and you never know, a half decent cup run. The alternative is more chaos, a never ending cycle. We're a few points off top five. Granted don't look like getting anywhere near that at the moment, but it's amazing what confidence can do if we can somehow string a few results together.

Unless relegation becomes a realistic threat (it's not yet, just as it wasn't two years ago), hold tight for now I say.

Sundance; keep thinking Butch - it's what you're good at. They leap outside...

Hands up who knows what happens next?

This will be Silva and Boa Morte at Anfield...Camera pulls away as our heroes fade into the sepia toned past that is Everton history.

The End.

If you want to attack the stats, you can do so easy. For example, you may well say that it's indicative of the "easier" games, and that our statistics will take a big hit over the next 5 games.

It's not been fun recently, even here in deepest West Wales. So many snide comments from glory-hunters of every colour. Got xmas on merseyside to contend with. Luckily my Red inlaws verge on the patronising, kindly wanting us do well. It doesn't help though. I feel for the Blues in the city.

Anything that could go wrong has gone wrong this year.

He isn't a lucky manager, he can't turn around onfield performances.

The flawed marking at set pieces especially on the back post are still there.

If he wants to play fast attacking football he doesn't pick Tosun over DCL or Sigurdsson over Iwobi.

I have given up trying to guess what style of play he wants besides get it to the overlapping fullbacks.

I can't see him lasting out the next 6 games.

Call me stupid but I've got this naive belief that a manager needs to be an exceptional coach on the training ground in order to bring the best out of the players on the field of play. If it's not happening on the training ground, then it inevitably leads to poor/incompetent play on the field – which is exactly what we have been subjected to watching.

Simple logic means the fault lies with the coach. Yet you seem to be trying to bamboozle us with myriad more excuses because you are so convinced Silva is this brilliant coach, despite all the evidence (at Everton) to the contrary.

Sorry, not buying it.

@John Graham 76,

Agreed - although I'm now 95% convinced it's untenable for him, regardless of the next 5-6 results.

That said; home and away against the next ("big") 5 PL fixtures, he took 14/30 points last season. At a time when expectations were undoubtedly lower. Some of those (ManU/Ars away), we maybe should have won (but for that terminal first conceded goal...)

I can't name a manager we can realistically secure now, who I would back to beat that at this stage, so I'd say leave him in, get a replacement or 3 in the wings, and task Brands with a way to measure the chances of a longer-term improvement from Silva over those games (no idea how he'd do that) - then either replace him or don't in Jan - but set the criteria now and stick to them.

If he manages the impossible, then maybe give him some funds for at least 1 of those players he reportedly didn't get in the summer in January perhaps?

That said - I've been pretty appalled with his style of management too many times now. Suspect in-game management, Bizarre touchline demeanour when it's not working, Roberto-esque soundbites, and tactical naivety as Steve details well for the Norwich game. It's all too hard to excuse

That's the spirit! We're Everton aren't we?!

I look at the side and am not totally down hearted because the changes that need to be made are relatively small but they would be effective.

With Martinez, there were too many problems. Lack of fitness, poor defending, ill discipline, terrible signings from Wigan (apart from JM) ludicrous game management.

Under Koeman while the second season was mad with all the new signings, I felt his stubborn refusal to change things up and basically leaving Lukaku isolated up front a lot with him and Barkley left to try finding the goals (he seriously never looked like he had much time for coaching the forwards and seemed to leave them to their own devices) left me puzzled as to what our identity was.

But with Silva I think the changes are easier to highlight and won't mean a big overhaul.

No more Schneiderlin. Siggy coming on with cameos from the bench. Pick a No 9 and back him to the hilt. No more rotating Tosun and DCL or even Richarlison. Stick with the one who works best in the system.

There are a whole host of other issues that Silva cannot influence like a paucity at the back and the injury crisis in the midfield. Yet if he had stopped tinkering and returning to the tired old names who have a history of failing us, he might have stood a chance.

Instead he's blown many of the winnable matches. If he does go, he will look back at this and kick himself.

As an aside Fans don't know what they want. At the last home game I heard forward, forward being shouted, and in the next breath from the same fan, "for christ sake play it simple" when the player tried to play on the half turn but failed. In that instance the player should have gone back to the keeper, but I swear it was the atmosphere in the ground that made the player try somehting that was wrong for the situation such was the pressure from the crowd.

Mark 28, I'm not in favour of keeping those players in if we play the same tactics. If we change and fix the shape of the midfield then yes they could work. Silva started to tinker. 4141 and for a game or two Walcott played close to the striker. How is it Mourinho can play 2 ‘defensive' midfielders but we can't? He lets the forward play like forwards. Our manager has them chasing back. Steve has a point that we are close and the stats if you rate them point to us being close. After 18 months to be is this position... Moshiri has a lot to answer for.

It's been said above but Silva looks like a deer in headlights. He knows how to set up the team and pick the players but once the game has started he's done. The Sheff Utd game when he played his hand so soon. Was that to make a point, or did he actually think those changes could work?

Anyway drawn in again to the same old arguments. Silva has failed and another season bites the dust.
I think l will ask my mummy for a nice blazer, tie, white board and some coloured marker pens.

I enjoy the banter with A Mercians. I used to think, what would they know. But then l lived in Toronto for 5 years and won 2 nfl pools 2 years in a row... and they hated me for it (which l loved). Sometimes sports is so simple. Football is a simple game made to look hard by millionaire managers and millionaire players that can't even pass a ball.

I think another reason he's yet to be fired is that it would be harsh to start a new manager (interim or otherwise) with the next two very tough games. Silva has specialised in more open games and will need 4 points I I imagine from next two games to stand a chance.

To be fair to you, you've always consistently told us what Silva did before and that there were some puzzling things in our first 11 that were not indicative of his usual set up.

It dawned on me last season that Gylfi stuck out like a sore thumb when the rest of attack comprised of Richarlison, Walcott and Bernard. All speed merchants. I believe the perfect example of the football Silva wants to play was at home versus Brighton last season. We sucked them into a changeover and got the third goal courtesy of pace.

There were other examples but that one sticks in my mind.

People can be quite rude to you Steve but I respect you not getting into slanging matches and having the courage of your convictions.

I thought Gylfi might work if you pack the rest of the side with pace. But having Davies and Schneiderlin behind and Tosun ahead was just brainless. What on Earth was he thinking?

It must have been something like “let them worry about us” on the basis of how we played at the Saints. But come on the difference in size from saints (one of the biggest) to Norwich (the smallest) and speed with saints being one of the slowest sides and Norwich being one of the fastest, surely that'd make you think you'd need a bit more pace in there?

However I think it is ludicrous to accept anything other than the fact that Silva is completely out of his depth. A poor manager deserves valid criticism and I would have no problem accepting his dismissal, hopefully with a man who can prevent us from being relegated. YES, that is how bad it has become. From predictions of a top four place to a genuine struggle to stay in the league.

Everton can not afford to be relegated. I was a twelve year old boy when we were relegated in 1951 and at that time it was not the death knell that it has become today. Many teams Burnley, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Derby were able to compete and win and become Champions and even be relegated.

Everton over the past twenty or so years have been one of the worst managed teams in the football league. The appointment of Silva has only prolonged this disastrous sequence. I still do not go along with vile hateful obcenities thrown at him. In fact he is just one more overpaid fall guy for a system that is in complete disaray. We need a magician to bring about the changes that we would all like to see. Steve, you have wrapped all these problems in cotton wool.. I am sure you are a fine Evertonian but your desires to succeed have clouded your perspectives.

As someone who held onto the Martinez wagon too long, and got dog's abuse for it, I respect your stance.

I think you're dead wrong, but I respect it. 😜

Steve Ferns, TW regular, spent countless hours putting together "scouting analysis" of Marco Silva when he was appointed. Most of the tactics briefs were spot on.

Steve Ferns, TW regular, spent countless hours dissecting games and providing game analysis in columns after said games.

Steve Ferns, TW regular, has posted hundreds of times backing his man, creating a level of discussion and banter, along with controversy, that has given this reader hours of enjoyment. And the banter has been gold at points, and TW thrives on banter; TW is a well-oiled machine and at it's best when the debate rages.

So Steve, thank you. You don't deserve the nasty comments. I appreciate your contributions, no matter how wrong they may be. 😜

Steve doesn't need me to argue his point. He's a big boy. But I think Steve should be commended for what he does bring to this fabulous website, whether you agree with him or not.

Gylfi should be launched into the nearest volcano, never to be seen nor heard from again.

Cheers, mate. :-D

Agreed, I figured Gylfi was in there to add another type of threat to the opponents.

I'm never sure why Schneiderlin is in any team.

I also agree on the performances against those teams you mention. While we didn't necessarily play the way I expect of a Silva team, we were composed, controlled the tempo and expanded the pitch. It was good to see and makes the recent fall even more frustrating.

You are correct that they are looking at the various contributing factor regarding performance and Brands will have done detailed reports and conducted similar analysis to what you have put forward.

At the start of the 3-year plan it was decided that Silva, who was given a three year contract, could perform sufficiently to keep Everton in the Premier League and make gradual progress so that Everton would be challenging in terms of League position and in the second year would progress in the Cup competition. There was no interest in Cup competitions last season.

So there will be no knee jerk reaction regarding Silva, but the plan and Everton progress in relation to it will be looked act, in terms of Brands analysis. They will be concerned by Silva's capitulation against Norwich, he appeared to have given up or lost his way.

There are factors that will also be considered. Brands progress reducing the wages bill and offloading of deadwood. The difficulty of recruiting new signings, where a reluctance to play for Everton was an issue, causing Brands to take risks with injury-prone players and the assessment of how risk/performance has worked out. The fact that Moshiri has not got full control and previous regime staff seem embedded in the Club, which appears a to be a no go area, for Moshiri and Brands.

The problem now, is the plan showing signs of progress and if not how can it be got back on track. It obvious changing the Manager is considered the last option.

But Steve unlike you I think there other problems which where not envisaged as being barriers to the plan implementation, namely the Culture of Everton Football Club, which has underpinned the underperformance for years and continues to do so.

So the problem is that Silva was not able to overcome this barrier and will not do so. Moshiri and Brands may not even be aware of its influence.

So Silva may be able to provide results in the immediate future in the League and may get a bit of a cup run, but he is destined to be rep!aced and not receive a further contract. It is apparent that Silva would not be able to take Everton to the next level, since there are doubts he will be able to get Everton to the performance to the original expectations expected.

Moshiri/Brands decision will be based in continuing the three year plan and a replacement will be recruited in that context.

Silva is a goner either sooner or later.

For sure he's far from the only culprit at Everton but as manager he's the only one in the cross-hairs of fan/media scrutiny on a daily basis. Others at the club, from the owner, boardroom, players and Finch Farm, are under nowhere near that sort of pressure or scrutiny and to me they all remain passively grateful for that, including Moshiri.

The club is weak, from top to bottom and, as you have spent all your efforts promoting Silva, I want to bore readers again by reminding them of the one person who's been in the boardroom as owner or chairman during the decades we've become so weak.

Maybe, just maybe, we need to be rid of him before we can expect any new manager to on his own cleanse the swamp of mediocrity created by our self-proclaimed greatest fan.

(And, for the avoidance of doubt, in saying that I don't mean Darren Hind or Jay Wood!)

Seems to apply to both sides of the white line.

I'm praying for the miracle on 4th December street, because like you Don, I don't want to keep changing managers until we can finally rid ourselves of “the messiah” (at least the life of Brian, was funny) but it looks like it's over for Silva, and I just wish Moshiri started listening to some genuinely great, knowledgeable and fanatical Evertonians, and has hopefully stopped listening to the self proclaimer, even if I've still got visions of David Moyes, by the end of next week.

“Ps” I'm serious about Moshiri getting a meeting with a few Knowledgeable die-hard Evertonians, because he'd probably learn more in one hour, than he's learned over the previous four years.

By the way Steve I wouldn't quote that Chelsea home game as one of the good games, Chelsea destroyed us in the first half of that game and should have been out of sight at half time, then again we did win 1-0.

I think we have been swinging wildly from one style of manager to another in our recent managerial appointments. Consider them: Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce and Silva. We look at what's wrong with Moyes and hire someone who has strengths where he has flaws, then the same with Martinez and so on and so forth.

I would hope that Brands ensures that we don't go that way. That we say, ok Silva didn't work, but that does not mean the model is broke. So we go out and get someone who is what Silva was meant to be. One obvious example being the current unemployed Marcelino who could be parachuted in and make some significant but subtle changes and should be able to do what he does using this squad.

Steve I appreciate your article and the various posts/replies to others, however, I am a bit confused.

You have, and continue, to back Silva in the face of everything many of us have seen, witnessed, experienced over the past 18 months.
You continue to try and fit everything we see of Silva in a good light and give reasons and excuses for his continual failures.
Your article again attempts to show us that Silva is still the right man.
Then I read the last paragraph of your 116 post

Sorry, totally confused

If we sign a flying winger who is meant to bomb up and down the wing, has a bag full of tricks and can supply the ammunition our strikers need, but then he turns out to be Bolasie or Van Der Meyde, we wouldn't go out and sign someone more like Kevin Kilbane. You'd go and get someone better who is still of the same type.

If Silva is sacked, then it means he didn't work out, but why can't you still go out and get the same type of manager in the same way you would still go out and get the same type of winger. You'd just ultimately go for one who can fit the profile.

Moshiri in his takeover accepted the already existing Everton culture. This is where all the problems of his tenure started.

We need to ditch the type of manager with rigid philosophies for a mangers who just get the best out of the players at their disposal.

The squad is awful and the failure of Silva tells me we have players who aren't up to the task of playing cultured football.

Being well beaten by Sheff Utd (home), Norwich (home) and Aston villa is relegation form.

This is Silva's 2nd season and the direction of travel is down.

If the team were putting in above average performances and we were a) keeping more clean sheets b) making and taking a greater number of chances, the supporters would be far more willing to accept the odd blip in progress, Silva's track record in England doesn't persuade me or many others that he has the fortitude and abiltiy to arrest a slide even when the odds are in his favour.

Injuries and suspensions have and will play a part in Everton's fortunes but under Silva we appear to be a hostage to those variables. His comments not to mention his body language, in the last few months, have the air of a man who has psychologically given up and if that is the case it's little wonder that save the odd 10-20 minute spells here and there his players often look as if they have too.

It would't surprise me if Silva has offered his resignation and the board has asked him to hang on until his replacement can be found. Although that's an unlikely scenario, it's the only valid reason I can offer for his stay of execution.

Moshiri has so far avoided the direct wrath of the Goodison faithful, could it be because he is using Bill Kenwright in the same way that Bill himself used David Moyes as his shield in times of difficulty?

Jerome @124 Spot. On. Everton needs to decide if they're a business or a football club. Before anyone takes this too literally, they can (and should) be a business who's primary goods & services are professional sports in the form of EFC. When Moshiri took over, he simply flooded it with cash without overhauling the management structure, thus leaving all of the old guard "yes men" intact.

It really shouldn't come as any surprise that the Football Club is floundering given the broken hierarchy that's running it.

He's lost players through injury but the fact remains that what we have is, at least on paper, a very talented squad but Silva seems unable to get a tune out of them.

Norwich was the best example but far from the only one. The statistic that we've never come back from behind (in the Prem) to win is damning.

Silva seems unable to learn from his mistakes. OK, he's abandoned zonal marking but sooner, or later, he'll bring it back. He abandoned it last swason, too, only for it to reappear this season.

He'd reluctant to give young players a chance which is, maybe, understandable given his current situation but surely the likes of Kean should be given more minutes?

His substitutions are often a sort of last throw of the dice by throwing forwards on in an attempt to rescue a situation he's caused in the first place. Very little thought appears to go into it.

Steve, I go to all the away games and he deserved dismissal on performances at Brighton, Southampton, Watford, Newcastle and Milwall just to name some.

This season has been exactly the same. One win and one draw in five away games against sides we should be easily beating. In over 60 years of watching Everton I've never seen so many dire performances in such a short space of time.

I think Silva has had too much time already. Not to sack him now is just delaying the inevitable. He just isn't up to it.

But, 14 points 13 games. Next four games 0 points, but their football games and he has done okay-ish against top sides. But 14 points 17 games. Out Carabo, maybe not? Beat Burnley 17 points 18 games, go to Man City. 18 games,17 points.

If he stayed? Relegation.

Get Rafa in. He won the Championship??? First time. He also won Premier Leagues, so he can do that 2020-21 season, oh good measure he can take us to Champions League success in 2021-22, ready to move into new stadium.

Let's get real. We might need Rafa cos we might be in the Championship with this squad.

Plan for worse, hope for best. Arteta, Howe?? Moyes, we'd be in the Championship for ever.

1963 been going, this is serious, well by 6 January it will be.

Need to ship Silva out now. Give the team to Tim Cahill until Rafa arrives.

Well let Rafa pick the team from China tell Tim what to do.

Can't be worse than Silva.

I understand that before 'the EFC takeover', formal Board meetings were rare and voting non existant. Since, Moshiri as owner and Kenwright as chair make the big football decisions after speaking to Brands and their own personal advisors.

Corporate Governance is not high on any EFC agenda and who reviews whom would be unlikely to be of much concern.

This is Everton.

In the words that Sir Geoffrey Boycott likes to use, the continuing impasse at Everton "is all a load of bloody rubbish".

Not the club or its supporters, Steve Ferns or dare I say it, Marco Silva. It's the myopic vision of people currently running the institution that is Everton FC.

They don't know what they are doing.

"The CEO oversees the business, and the Board holds that position accountable. Except the CEO sits on the Board! How can she be evaluating her performance when she's evaluating herself? It's a ridiculous structure that's designed to fail so it's no surprise that there's no clarity or sense to be made around how things work."

So the difference here is that it's only Kenwright who would evaluate DBB? 'Cause that's worse! Seeing as how she's his "little Miss Dynamite." lol

Either/or, it's a poor structure (for Everton) because apparently no one is accountable for anything. Businesses do fail when this happens, and it's possible (I hope not) this has begun to happen. All of Mosh's money is being squandered meaninglessly because he didn't wipe out the old, and bring in an actually qualified leadership team. Brands seems to be an effort to do so, but has he been allowed to do his job without interference? I hope that's happening and we simply don't know it. *crosses fingers*

Head in hands:

"What the fuck is wrong with me, that I would allow this Kenwright character to swindle my money off me and invest it in this no-hope club?"

Tears begin to flow:

"My best friend, good old Alisher Usmanov does not want anything to do with this clusterfuck of a club, he's not returning my calls. I can't raise a single penny for the new stadium, all the banks think we're going down!"

Enraged, he stares off into to space whilst grinding his teeth and clenching his fists, then roars:

"There has to be a mug as gullible as me out there who'll buy this pup from me!"

My information is that once Kenwright took the chair, everything became very informal with a quick ten minutes natter after a game being regarded as 'a meeting of directors.' Given that Uncle Bill lived and worked in London and with other so-called directors in other parts of the globe, I guess formality via a code of governance was never seen as practical. I imagine that telephone and, more recently, internet conferences provided a means of communication and as well as material for minuting.

I have no information on how corporate governance operates since the takeover although I do believe that DBB is experienced enough to ensure that proper standards are established and maintained.

Rob M, it's possible the Russkie isn't returning calls because he's been brought up on charges for tax evasion or something. Wouldn't put it past him!

A few points:

Although the present position is precarious, it would be disastrous, if we were the ONLY team having such problems. We are not, Arsenal are in turmoil, Man U are struggling, and Spurs have seen fit to sack a manager, who by common consent, is among the best in the game.

Who are thriving, while we are not? … Leicester and Sheffield Utd. teams playing very direct, fast, simple football …. dare I say it, Championship football. We need to be faster in attack, and maybe simpler at the back.

There is a growing gap, between 'Managers' and 'Coaches'. Marco Silva, and Roberto Martinez were, by all accounts, very good coaches, but of questionable managerial ability. Davey Moyes was a better manager, but, I suspect, not the world's greatest coach. Is it time for a dual appointment? E.g. Arteta to coach, Cahill to manage?

Idrissa Gueye left, and in reality, we couldn't have hung on to him. Gbamin might have been a half-decent replacement, but we still don't know. Centre-back: I believe, that we were 'given the nod' by Chelsea, that Kurt Zouma would have been made available at the last minute in the January window; hence why we didn't look for anyone else. Then, the David Luiz bombshell dropped, which absolutely no-one saw coming. It was too late in the window to do anything, so Chelsea kept Zouma. I think they did not expect him to be the success he has been, this season.

Striker: Recently OG-S said that Man U didn't sign a striker in the last window, as there was no-one worth signing. Quite!

Most Evertonians turned their noses up at signing Chris Smalling or Marcos Rojo as defensive cover 'No more Man U rejects etc.' Smalling now has several Serie A clubs queueing up to sign him, and O G-S has said that Rojo will not be allowed to leave, because of his excellent current form.

We all think we know football, and we know people, and how they will react, but we don't. We've had a little bit of bad management and a lot of bad luck. Consolidate this season, and look to attack, next.

We are not sufficiently proud of the fact, that we have always been in the Premier League: Newcastle have not, Aston Villa have not, Leicester have not, Norwich have not, Crystal Palace have not; Leeds and Nottingham Forest [European Cup winners in my lifetime] have hardly been in it at all.

We are a big club, we are a good club, we are a proud club. We are having a hard time at the moment, but it will change. So, 'Keep calm and carry on!' as the cliché goes.

Bit of a 'round the houses' ramble, but there we are!

He has rarely if at all picked the best combination, to best deal with the opposition, whoever they may be, and it's not as if apart from injuries, he was limited to fourteen players.

Besides, he is not doing us any unpaid favour, he is handsomely rewarded for a job, which is results- (hence League Position) and entertainment-driven, to date has hardly delivered on either front.

Considering the easy fixture list we had at the start of this campaign, he has abjectly failed (while I appreciate we don't have a right to win these games). I believe they were winnable (mostly) but stubborn and unimaginative team selections handed the opposition the upper hand on a plate.