Why do we deserve this, Evertonians?

We seem to be stuck in a groundhog day cycle of new hope / false dawn then bust. As they say - if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined. It does get tedious though

I expect you to tell the horrible truth facing our club but please do not let it grind you down.
You ask, "why do we deserve this", in one word the answer is complacency
of loyal supporters who week after week, year after year turn up in their thousands to watch second rate rubbish.

Of course we deserve this. We all did really, really bad things in our previous lives. At least that's my Buddhist wife's interpretation.

I agree with your ratings, Paul, except I would have switched Iwobe and Rich. I think Iwobi had a much better day passing, although his failure on that chance was disappointing. Rich just couldn't make connections with anybody.

Mike

I was gonna say something similar but you beat me to it. Although it could be sins from our future since time is a construct.

As a devout Catholic, I can certifiably tell you it's NOT sins from a past life.

The Lord loves suffering. His Chosen are tasked to walk the path of trial and tribulation, suffering and persecution.

We're all going to heaven. Rejoice! ;0)

Fuck yeah Jamie. Me, you, St Peter and Dixie Dean

Jamie, I am left utterly without comment.

Paul, I've worked abroad now since January 2004, bar a 2 year spell in the middle of it, and used to list going to the game (even though I was mainly down south) as one of the things I missed most - aside from family & friends of course. Still, the TV deals meant I could still watch every game, even if at some ridiculous hour, and share in the pain and occasional joy.

Maybe it's advancing years, or other priorities, but I've long lost the passion that meant you couldn't talk to me for 2 days after a defeat. I just can't get excited watching a team of multi millionaires just so abjectly concede. A half-hearted clap on the way off is scant reward for the fans who do go, game in, game out.

We've lost our way since the plucky Everton reputation under Moyes (and I was no fan of the 2nd part of his tenure), however whilst it seems that off the pitch (appointing Brands, BMD etc.) we are making progress, we're still missing something on the pitch. We can't just simply keep sacking managers - if Moshiri, and I assume Brands was involved, wanted Silva then they must give him the time unless there is something more sinister going on in the dressing room.

I was distraught to listen to 606 and a fan calling up begging for Moyes to come back. Moyes is in the same camp as Mourihno. A dinosaur who never evolved his thinking once he was sussed out. Except the latter won a stack of trophies, albeit spending a stack of cash. The best managers evolve, constantly. Sad to say but that lot across the park, and their former manager, are prime examples. I know some on here want Benitez - but I would argue he's closer to Moyes in pramatism than someone like a Klopp or Rodgers. Also those with long memories will remember the outcry when John Toshack was lined up to become our manager in the early 90s

But at least Everton always gives you something to talk about in the pub! We're in for another season of struggle I fear...

Pretty accurate Matt (8). Wise words.

Funnily enough I too left the UK in 2004, but with all the Media deals see more of them now than ever on TV.

Just glad I am not there under this cloud, and with all those horrible Kloppites gloating.

Rob #9, there's plenty of horrible koppites all around the world.

It's never a good idea to write when you're angry, and that's what I was last night.

Now I've slept and calmed down a bit, I wanted to add a few comments external to the match which I hope might raise a smile or at the least put losing a game of football, or several games of football, into perspective...

Davies, Holgate and Lennon
While our substitutes and theirs warmed up at the break, it was great to see Tom, Mason and Aaron embrace and have a good chat, all with smiles. Jay Rodriguez also. You don't see that solidarity often enough in football. Aaron got a great reception from our fans also.

Gary Parkinson and Dave Thomas
At half time there was an announcement about Gary Parkinson, an ex-Everton trainee and Ex-Burnley coach, who suffers from Locked-In Syndrome. To the best of my knowledge, this essentially delibitates you, making you completely unable to move or communicate, though you can see and hear. It sounds awful. Dave Thomas, who was on the pitch at half time last week I believe, also came on the pitch at the break. He was a wonderful winger for Burnley and then Everton in his day by all accounts. He is now registered blind.

My family are in good health. It really makes me realise how lucky we are as not everybody is so. Never take anything for granted.

After yesterday Marco won't be taking his job for granted, that's for sure.

Jamie (5), I'm Catholic too and well understand where you're coming from. In days gone by we were known as a Catholic club of course - but don't you just wish the Good Lord would give us Evertonians a day off now and again?

Jamie#5

Thanks. I feel better already.

Jamie#3

Thanks. I feel better already.

I packed in my season ticket and away visits last year, it didn't take much expertise to see what is happening now on the near horizon. Got so tired of sideways, backward and wildly inaccurate passing, the long, quiet coach trip home after a another dreary loss against a poor team, the complete inability to run at defenders and on and on. A normal human being can only take on so much after a dreary and expensive run of disappointments before they finally give up. Only a psychiatrist can explain why I still listen to the radio with with a glimmer of forlorn hope. So it goes.

Sacking Marco Silva won't achieve anything, as it didn't with Martinez, Koeman or Allardyce. We are in the position we are, because of appalling recruitment of players. This falls at the feet of both the DOF and the board. The job of the DOF and the scouting network is to spot and recruit players that are unknown to most but for whatever reason, are under the radar of the world's top clubs. At this we have spectacularly failed, minus the signings of Digne and Gueye. The job of the board at a club like Everton, is to spot when an opportunity arises to sign a player, known to most, that becomes available at an extortionate price, but is guaranteed to improve the team. The likes of Koulibaly, Witsel, Arnautovic, Zaha, should have been beyond the reach of a club like ours, but if the opportunity arises, we simply have to offer what the respective club and player wants, as this is the only way we can compete for these types of players. As it stands, we refused to do so, over and over again, year after year, and instead panicked, got to the end of the transfer window and resorted to paying over the odds for bang average players. These players have unsuprisingly failed to improve us, are impossible to sell and has resulted in us having the most disjointed squad of players we've ever had. As it stands, we have spent hundreds if thousands of pounds on player recruitment, have only 5-6 players worthy of playing in a top 6 side, and the rest are of championship standard. As a result of this, we are most likely and deservedly going to to go down this year. Therefore, it's incredibly misguided to be blaming individual players or coaches for the position we're in, we're just a classic example of just how NOT to run a business.

Insanity is defined as repeating the same action and expecting a different result. This sums up perfectly the management of Marco Silva. The stats do not lie. Zonal marking doesn't work for us, so why persist with it?
We have a keeper of questionable temperament, who seems incapable of coming off his line to cope with even the most innocuous of crosses. Yet his place in the team appears guaranteed, regardless of results. Schneiderlin and Sigurrdson have been repeatedly tried and tested yet found wanting. We now know why Spurs parted with Sigurrdson years ago. He is quite simply ineffective, lacking in too many aspects of his game. Yet Silva persists with him. Insanity.
In terms of excitement, our season is already over, save for a Cup run, or indeed, with a spate of daunting pre Christmas fixtures looming, a relegation battle. Perhaps God forbid, another January call to 'Fireman Sam'?

Apparently Everton have never come back from conceding the first goal to win a game under Marco Silva. Says it all really. Spineless and gutless. Very sad really. Brands really needs to earn his corn now and line up a good replacement. Not sure he wanted Silva in the first place, think it was Moshiri's call.

The hate and loathing behind me during and immediately after the game was startling even by recent standards. Anyone brave enough to suggest we get behind the team instead of berating them risked public ridicule. These days a losing run of one game (Bournemouth) is enough for a small minority of fans to call for the manager's head. Lose two (Sheffield United) and the minority waving two fingered gestures to accompany their online invective grows to a couple of hundred. Lose three (Manchester City) and now hundreds more join in (‘why is he still here?'). Lose four (Burnley) and frankly flogging and hanging is too good for the charlatan. As Silva acknowledged the away crowd yesterday evening the reaction could not have been more vitriolic if he had been charged with murder. Michael Keane tried to dissuade him from lingering but Silva was insistent on facing his critics. I admired his courage if not his judgement.

Of course the same people were calling for Allardyce's head and those of all his predecessors. I think we all knew Silva was never going to be the transformational manager every club seeks but very few find. For the time being though he is here and surely we are better advised to give him a chance to make the best of what he has available than risk another dabble in the market of unemployed managers or those seeking an ‘exciting project' or just brazenly out to increase their salary. I think we are in a marginally better state than two years ago when Koeman had completely lost the plot.

The return of Gomes should give the midfield a better balance. When he gets fit JPG should give us greater pace and power in midfield. Dropping Sigurdsson is overdue. Play three runners and chasers up front from DCL, Kean, Bernard, Richarlison, Tosun, Walcott and Iwobi and get the ball up to them in two or three passes rather than the laboured six or seven (sometimes a tortuous sixteen or seventeen) we currently take. It was interesting yesterday to note we sometimes looked more purposeful going forward after going down to ten men than we did with the full eleven. Without Sigurdsson to complicate things we sent the ball forward more rapidly.

I didn't attach any blame to Pickford for the goal. Clean sheets are about the team as a whole adopting the right defensive tactics from front to back. Our keeper cannot command the box in the way Pope did but that deficiency has been long known and by now we should have learned to live with it. By and large we looked solid yesterday but were let down by nobody tracking Hendrick - twice!

What is the plan? The owner can't throw more money at it! If the club are serious about a new stadium then staying in the league till it's built is the plan. Realistically we are not top 4 and never were. I'm a dreamer every summer but reality sets in but my fear is relagation.

The owner needs to appoint a manager who knows the league, bring youth through and with a limited budget. Unless we spend a further 300 million with a top European manager. Top four may be a possibility. This won't happen! The owner is clawing some money back by balancing the books. Who can blame him? I don't.

The stadium has to come but if relagation happens, forget it. Our history is great but it's means nothing. In reality, positive results and who the manager is wouldn't be important. Let's stop with this world class manager. If it happens fine but it's boom or bust time. Over inflated fees/salaries to get average players. We need stability while the ground is being built.

All I know is supporting this club can lower the mood.

Mike(#3); Your wife is absolutely right, we spawned the team of the Devil.

The quality of EFC in its current incarnation, as opposed to the EFC that I grew up with, does not match the quality of its supporters, the loyal Evertonians who have had to endure decades of rubbish.

In short, Everton don't deserve us.

But all we can do is support the manager. We have no choice, since changing the manager not only has no guarantee of success but from recent experience is likely to produce more expectation followed by let-down. There seem to be deeper problems at Everton than simply the manager. We have a good squad of players who can play well under this manager. We can only hope that things can be turned around, but we can supplement that hope by continuing to support the manager and players. I cannot think of any other way forward.

John @19 and Stan @22, you are correct. I doubt that anyone is listening though.

John R, that is a good post. Fair play to Silva for his actions at the end. However, will he do what you suggest in your penultimate paragraph? It seems to me that Sigurdsson appears undroppable to the coach.

Above all, the players need to man up. Our weediness and sloppiness are horrible to see. Our ball retention, in potentially threatening areas, has been woeful for a long time.

If Silva is to survive, he needs the players to play for him and, of course, to play for the fans who pay so much to watch them.

"Liverpool meanwhile have fans you love to loathe. You can't go anywhere in the world without running into them. They are loved by all,"

Sorry Paul but that statement is really wide of the mark, I know many people who spend their time supporting lower league teams never mind local EPL teams. I also know people who really don't have that much time for football but to a man they f**king hate Liverpool FC and their totally biased fans.

Have to agree with Mike G. The Kopites are footballs equivalent to being in a cult. When you're a member you can't find a reason why everyone hasn't joined yet. And when you're on the outside you wake up in fear occasionally after having a nightmare one of your children or friends has decided to sign up. They divide opinion like no other English team.

Hillsborough was a long time ago, and the residual sympathy and good will towards them has been missing for a good few years now. The rest of the footy world can see them for the lucky, classless, graceless spivs we have long known them to be.

That said - this is looking like it's their time. And it most definitely is not ours.

Plus one to how much other fans hate the Kopites. I've yet to meet a neutral with a good word for them. They're seen as the worst of the city, we're usually seen as the best of it. Having said that, any neutral who uses their hatred of the RS as a cover for their hatred of the good people of Liverpool can fuck off.

Andy (24) Silva's future could depend on what he does about the Sigurdsson problem. I suspect the manager has felt under pressure to persist with our non-playing set piece kicker because such a huge fee was paid for him by Koeman/Walsh. Also while he was scoring goals his selection could be justified in a team woefully short of a goal threat. In the situation we now find ourselves Silva may finally do what really ought to have been done a month ago. Drop him.

Hi John [19] and Stan [22] I agree with your views 100%, it's not a pleasant time to be an Evertonian, but we have to hope that the Board are aware of the problems the club faces and take appropriate action. I can honestly say that I have never booed or verbally abused any Manager of Everton, I feel that to do so is a negative approach, and as we have no control over the appointment we just have to hope that the right man is chosen if such a decision is necessary.

In answer to the question " Why do we deserve this, Evertonian's" ? the answer is we don't, nor do the supporters of any club in a similar position, but these things are part and parcel of the game, and any club finding themselves in this situation should be able to count on the support of their fans.

Of course it's disappointing but with 30 games remaining, now is not the time for mass hysteria. I may add that I have experienced a relegation in [1951] and it's not something I would like to experience again, but we've a long time to go, so lets get behind the team and whoever may be the Manager.

It's plain to anyone watching the team that silva's player selection and tactics just don't work. He seems to be the only one who can't see it. His inflexibility and stubbornness is destroying the team who seem to have lost all fight. Unless he changes soon he's got to go.

Paul, nobody relishes another change of manager but I don't see why Silva should stay for a minute longer. We've had enough of him and his equally useless coaching staff.

Now is the time for him to go, during the break for the internationals, whilst we have to spend nearly a fortnight sitting in the relegation zone.

If not close then it's getting closer to the time, as where we are is deserved as, the gutless, careless and game plan less approach, has shown, money doesn't buy you a winning team.

There's no fighting team at Everton, and each week, it seems now that we are fodder for any team.

Wolves won today, they probably should have beaten us, if we are honest, in terms of chances.

The team has no spirit and needs a massive jolt of belief. West Ham is the game, must win and for Marco Silva, monumental.

What will change?

John#19

To an extent, you are right, but I normally am a supporter of such points that you have raised. But I got a shock, how bad the play really was. The not tracking of Hendrix twice was really poor, saved by Pickford the first time, should have sent out alarm bells and didn't.

But having thought about it, you are right, let's see what happens against West Ham. We really don't have any alternatives at this stage of the season.

I agree with Stan as well.

I refuse to believe its so difficult to get a tune out of this squad.

Pains me to say it, but why not try and copy that lot.

433

Pickford

Coleman
Digne
Mina
Keane

Gomes
Gbamin
Delp

Richarlison
Kean
Bernard

What have we got to lose?