Blues humbled in pathetic showing against bottom club Norwich

By Michael Kenrick 23/11/2019 323comments  |  Jump to last
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Fabian Delph is almost certainly out along with Bernard

With the final international break of the calendar year out of the way, Everton return to Premier League action this weekend with the visit of the division's bottom club, Norwich City.

Marco Silva named an unchanged side for the game with Norwich City, with Tosun leading the line while Kean and Calvert-Lewin are on the bench.

The game got underway and Norwich showed they were determined to give Everton a game, Sigurdsson getting an unwelcome facial massage that needed treatment early on. The Blues were called upon to defend as the red-shirted Canaries moved the ball around well enough, almost getting a shot in on Pickford.

Norwich notched up the first corner of the game with another probing attack on Sidibe's side and a clean header was goalbound but grasped easily by Pickford, and Everton went up the Park End to win their first corner, played low to no-one in particular by Walcott, a complete waste.

Hernandez attacked down the Everton left and wriggled inside to have his shot at Pickford, in what was looking to be a very open game. Everton attacked well, Tosun firing across goal after a neat exchange with Sigurdsson.

Walcott dug out an excellent low cross aimed for Richarlison but the Brazilian couldn't convert. Everton played out of the back but Scheneiderlin passes straight to a Norwich player and then dives in recklessly to rectify and earns an unnecessary yellow card.

Zimmerman was beaten for pace by Richarlison, and impeded him illegally, earning himself a yellow card from referee Taylor. Digne put it onto Tosun's head but it lacked the power and direction needed to beat Krul in the Norwich goal.

Everton threatened from a corner, only to see Norwich break well with Hernandez forcing a fine save from Pickford and Everton scrambled the ball away. Everton's attacked suffered from poor passing accuracy, Richarlison getting caught in a sandwich.

The Blues were getting the calls from Taylor, Walcott getting fouled in a good position wide right, from where Digne fired in a great ball, Byron beating Davies to the header for another Everton corner. But it was a weird near-post attempt from Sigurdsson that fooled even the Everton players.

Richarlison then got the wrong side of a foul on Aarons, giving away a dangerous set-piece that needed a good header behind from Mina. From the Norwich corner, Richarlison defended it well, but the break was stopped by a strong challenge and Everton were under pressure again. Cantwell had a glorious chance but Schneiderlin deflected his shot over the bar.

Everton had struggled to really master Norwich's game plan, with the visitors leading on points at the break, thanks to some fine speedy attacks that probably deserved a goal, while Everton had if anything wasted their opportunities at the other end, especially from a string of poorly delivered corners.

Before the break, another lively probing attack wins a corner for Norwich, with the zonal marking looking chaotic as Holgate headed away and some boos for the referee when the whistle went.

Pukki really gave the Everton backline a fright after the restart, bursting through, brushing Holgate aside easily and needing a fine intervention from Digne to prevent the shot on goal.

Some fine passing won an Everton corner that Sigurdsson this time delivered better but headed away, but Tosun's effort was blocked. Strong pressure from Everton on more corners but the ball just would not drop fro the Blue shirts and Norwich survived the strongest attack sequence of the game so far.

Walcott got free but Krul was out quickly and Norwich went up the other end, and scored far too easily, Pukki bamboozled both Holgate and Mina to feed Cantwell who slotted with consummate ease past a bewildered Pickford. Very poor.

Iwobi replaced Schneiderlin, apparently planned before the goal, but Silva now under massive pressure to rectify an intolerable situation.

But Norwich were buoyed by the goal and continued to give Everton an unwelcome challenge. From a corner, a free header for Byram was amazingly driven wide when it seemed easier for Norwich to score.

The Blues were teetering, unable to exert any kind of grip on the game, with Silva visibly frustrated and the crowd even more so. He gave Calvert-Lewin a lengthy pre-switch lecture, before switching out Walcott, with Coleman also coming on for Sidibe.

Sigurdsson had a couple of chances after that but neither were strong enough nor well directed to break the duck. The frustrations in the Goodison crowd, however, were palpable. Coleman created havoc with a fine low cross but it evaded Calvert-Lewin at the far post and Everton remained a goal down.

Mina was called for a foul and another set-piece put the Blues under more pressure, the ball defended away, however. Sigurdsson had a couple of bites, one blocked, the other driven wide of Krul but the Norwich keeper spread himself well to stop it. Tosun was next to lash a shot goalwards only for Krul to palm it away. Iwobi then fired over.

Iwobi put in a teasing cross, but Krul did well. Things got heated between Holgate ad Aarons over something after Cantwell injured himself, both getting yellow cards. VAR then checking Holgate's perceived encroachment on Krul's space.

Calvert-Lewin did a brilliant job bringing down a long forward pass from Davies but he could not follow it up and another Everton attack dissolved into nothing. Sigurdsson was rolled over, a decent shooting position a little far out. Digne's attempt was far too weak.

Davies had a decent shot from distance but Krul would not be beaten that easily, as the final minutes of a hugely disappointing game for the Blues ticked away. A dismal performance was underlined in the final minute by a second goal for Norwich, when substitute Srbeny benefitted from a ball played through to him by Sigursdsson and finished well past Pickford despite attentions from at least four ineffective Everton defenders.

Utterly dismal stuff from the Blues who lose another must-win game in front of a very angry Goodison Park crowd. Will this be the final straw for Marco Silva's tenure as Everton manager?

Kick off: 3pm, Saturday, 23 November 2019

Everton: Pickford; Sidibe (66' Coleman), Mina, Holgate, Digne; Davies, Schneiderlin [Y:] (52' Iwobi); Walcott (66' Calvert-Lewin), Sigurdsson, Richarlison; Tosun.
Subs not Used: Lossl, Keane, Baningime, Kean.

Norwich: Krul, Aarons, Zimmermann [Y:], Godfrey, Byram, Tettey [Y:], Hernandez, Trybull, McLean (88' Amadou), Cantwell (80' Benuida), Pukki (90' Srbeny).
Subs not Used: Roberts, Vrancic, Emi, Stiepermann, Fahrmann.

Referee: Anthony Taylor

Attendance: 39,241


Reader Comments (323)

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Dennis Stevens
1 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:20:47
I'd much rather see Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson & Tosun on the bench & Baningime, Iwobi & Calvert-Lewin on the pitch.
Chris Cole
2 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:31:06
Uninspiring team selection.

Norwich are playing a right-back at left-back, so Walcott really needs to capitalise.

Sam Hoare
3 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:34:58
Win, lose or draw I think that is a seriously uninspiring line-up. No Kean. No Iwobi. No Gordon even on the bench.

Surely this a match where you might show a touch of boldness and invention; where you might look to the future?

Sigurdsson is a very good player but often struggles against low blocks (which I assume Norwich will try as they've been way too open lately). Playing him and Schneiderlin in the middle also makes us unbearably slow in the centre.

Walcott has been doing well recently but surely this is a game to give Kean or Gordon (who both scored over the International break) some minutes.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

4 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:42:57
I think it's a team that looks very much at the present, Sam, with half an eye on the immediate future.

He has largely gone for experience over promise, knowing 3 points today are critical to give us a cushion with very challenging fixtures coming up in December.

Given what he has at his disposal, together with how players have performed, the only selection I personally question is Tosun instead of Calvert-Lewin.

Bill Griffiths
5 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:53:49
Not the team I would have picked but let's see how it goes.
Francis van Lierop
6 Posted 23/11/2019 at 14:57:35
Same as Bill @3
Sam Hoare
7 Posted 23/11/2019 at 15:32:00
Jay, no doubt he's gone for safety and I hope it works. But, for me, experience has not often done well for us over the last few years. This conservative approach has not reaped fruit often enough before so why not try something new? Let's see.
Andrew Keatley
8 Posted 23/11/2019 at 15:54:42
Sam (3) - Spot on. And that is why Silva is the wrong manager for this club. He's tentative, rigid, unimaginative, and that first 45 minutes puts huge pressure on him now.

His Plan A fails more than it works, and yet he continues to persevere with it – the same formation against EVERY TEAM, regardless of our form, their form, our available players, their available players, where they are in the table, where we are in the table – or any other variables you might wish to mention. Not for me.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

9 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:02:51
Goodness, it's all so tepid and tedious, isn't it?

Like pretty much every game and every opposition this season, Norwich are just keeping their shape and doing the basics and creating the better chances.

Other than Tosun's long-distance header, have we had an effort on goal? Norwich have worked Pickford on many occasions.

In particular, we are a wide-open door down Sidibe's flank.

Davies, Walcott and Richarlison the pick for me but, as too often this season, everything needs to be speeded up going forward.

Ciarán McGlone
10 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:12:12
Darren Hind posed the question: Would you ever wish Everton to lose...?

If it meant getting rid of this complete fraud, my answer would be an unequivocal "Yes!"

Christy Ring
11 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:12:15
A dismal 45 mins, with Norwich the better team. Silva has to change it, Schneiderlin already on a ridiculous yellow, put two upfront.

I see Liverpool got away with another shocking VAR decision, why don't they just hand them the title?

Ciarán McGlone
12 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:13:59
...and there it is
Andrew Keatley
13 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:14:53
If we do lose this, and I obviously hope we don't, then Silva needs to be sacked by 5:15 pm.
Chris Gordon
14 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:16:22
Here we go yet again. Will the EFC board please, please put us out of this eternal damnation and sack Silva by tomorrow!!!
Kase Chow
15 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:17:24
Why does the idiot play Schneiderlin?

Why play Tosun?

Why play Walcott?

Silva is a 5-star idiot.

Sick and tired of the dismal crap served up: performances and results.

Silva regularly ruins my weekends.

Paul Setter
16 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:17:41
Burnley, Bournemouth, Aston Villa, Brighton, and Sheffield Utd have beaten us... and now this. Fucking spineless board won't do anything about it.
Ian Lloyd
17 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:28:28
Please get shut of him, FFS!!!
Alan J Thompson
18 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:31:06
Position Vacant; Managerial, applications now being taken.
Ken Kneale
19 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:38:16
Does anyone out there think this clueless clown should stay? When will the hierarchy act and get rid, along with Ferguson and other coat hangers in the so-called coaching team? We are abysmal.
Ernie Baywood
20 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:51:57
The only uncertain thing now is whether the stands empty or if they stay just to boo.

No doubt about Marco's future, surely?

Frank Crewe
21 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:54:03
So who is next? Pochettino, Pelligrini, or Emery? Since I've no doubt they'll all be available.

The fact is that a side is a reflection of the manager. An exciting manager produces an exciting side. A boring manager produces a boring side. Guess which one we have.

Ken Kneale
22 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:54:25
Just compare our impotent hierarchy to the decisive action taken at Spurs.
Ian Lloyd
23 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:55:59
Please just get rid!
Jamie Crowley
24 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:56:45
Expect 600+ comments, and a lot of frustration venting – justifiably.

He's got to go, tonight.

Kieran Kinsella
25 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:57:23
Turned it off after 20 minutes of the usual aimless crosses and nervous looking backline. See that I spared myself 70 minutes of further torture. Joker needs to go.
Simon Smith
26 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:57:45
Utter shower of shit. This season has been bad but now it's getting embarrassing.

Sheff Utd and Norwich at home: zero points, zero goals, conceded 4.

I think I've finally had enough of this awful club!

John Davies
27 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:57:52
Jesus Christ! 2-0 defeat at home to Norwich!

I'm not coming up again until Silva & our abysmal "Blues Old Boys" coaching team have all been dismissed.

Now for a 200+ miles drive home. I hate all this right now.

Kase Chow
28 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:57:57
Who were the clowns that assumed we'd win today because we were playing Norwich?

I was reading these comments wondering if I'm a pessimist or whether these people have watched Everton in the last 3 years??

What are these people basing their opinions on???

Phil Rodgers
29 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:58:21
He needs to go immediately.
Andy Mead
30 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:59:16
What has got to happen before this clown is gone? No other club would put up with this. He should be sacked as soon as he gets in the dressing room.

Easy start to the season and we have blown it. We will be relegated with Silva in charge.

Steve Ferns
31 Posted 23/11/2019 at 16:59:32
Left early. I assume we lost 2-0. Well beaten by Norwich. I saw their danger men before the game, particularly Hernandez. Why didn’t we try to contain him?

Everything was wrong today from the selection to the performances and the subs. No doubt you’re all fuming on here. Can’t be arsed reading it.

Silva won’t be sacked after that but he’ll be close because you can lose to Norwich with mitigation but you can’t lose like we just did. It was pathetic.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

32 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:01:27
Seriously, how much longer must we endure this?

Just when does this become 'untenable'?

Norwich, bottom of the league. One goal away all season. The second worst defence in the league after Southampton with 28 goals against. And they didn't even have to play particularly well – as with any other team that has taken points off us this season – to win.

This is just drifting now. Silva is forcing Moshiri to make an early decision on him.

Ryan Holroyd
33 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:01:48
Shut up, Steve Ferns. Sick of hearing your defence of Silva.
Brian Hennessy
34 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:02:03
Please god, let that be the last game I have to watch with that clown of a manager on the sidelines.

Can't motivate players;
Can't set up a balanced team;
Can't pick /drop players based on form;
Can't make correct substitutions.

Make no mistake about it, we will go down if we keep Silva.

Andrew Keatley
35 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:02:42
Steve (31) - Massive respect to you for coming on here and posting, considering your long-held and well-known support of Silva.

One question. Do you still not want him gone?

Dave Trickey
36 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:03:12
Usually an advocate of patience, I now feel it is time for change. Controversial perhaps, but should we get Rafa in?
Tony Hill
37 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:03:29
What is there to say? I've changed my mind too often about this manager. We're in very serious trouble and the usual lofty dismissals of relegation danger won't wash.

A defeat of that nature to the bottom cub should mean the end of Silva, I'm afraid. But I heard on the stream I was watching that we've spent nigh on £500m since February 2016, the 4th highest in the Premier League. Whatever is wrong (and there's an awful lot), it ain't all down to Marco Silva.

Winston Williamson
38 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:03:32
Took one look at the starting team and knew exactly what would happen.

You cannot play Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Tosun in the same team. How many fucking times do we have to say it??

You cannot even play Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin in the same side!

IT MAKES US TOO FUCKING SLOW!

Additionally, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin have done nothing, nothing this season to warrant being in the team.

This manager hasn't learnt. Won't learn and my patience has gone. I've not stated I've wanted him out. I was prepared to give him time.

He really doesn't help himself though. That side he picked today, that right there, he deserves to be sacked.

Off you pop, Marco. You had your chance. You blew it.

Now, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott can fuck right off too... pay them off, demote them, do anything! Just don't let them wear the shirt again!!

Dave Abrahams
39 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:04:00
My heart sank when I saw the team selection, so feared the worse.

So very sad to see Everton in this state, not even able to be angry, heartbroken over football, sad but I care about them so much and worry about the future and how can we turn this deplorable state of affairs around.

It's going to be a very long weekend.

Tony Twist
40 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:04:03
It is crystal clear that the club doesn't have a clue. It is just as much Brands's fault for this. I am not a Director of Football but can easily see the weaknesses of the present coach. He should have gone before the last international break.

We are dicing with our Premier League existence but everyone with any say in the matter is incompetent.

Kieran Kinsella
41 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:04:45
Frank,

Pochettino was unhappy at Spurs. New stadium, competent skin-flint chairman, good players. Why would he come to Everton? Dream of a new stadium, skin-flint incompetent chairman, poor players.

Phil Smith
42 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:06:31
I've been keeping my opinions on Silva to myself this season but I've run out of patience with him now. That was Mike Walker bad.

If Spurs can let Pochettino go, then Silva has to go now. Get Unsy in and give some kids a go. Can't do worse than this shite!

Kieran Kinsella
43 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:06:33
Ryan

Let's not take out our frustrations on Steve Ferns. He knew a lot about Silva from Portugal and had high hopes for him. Yeah, he's probably been blinded by his own early observations but he's entitled to his point of view and nothing he said after the match was in any way shape or form defending Silva.

Anthony Jones
44 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:06:46
He doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it. Too slow and ponderous in the middle. Again. Sack him.
Chris Green
45 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:07:10
I have supported us through thick and thin for as many years as I care to remember but this manager is making me actually lose interest in football.

The same team, the same shite, no new ideas, no passion. How can he defend this? I mean passion should be there regardless. It's just absolutely rubbish!

Ian Riley
46 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:08:33
Silva should not be allowed back into the dressing room. Give him a cheque and say good-bye. If we don't sack him after that, let him relegate us. This can't go on.

Chris, you are right. I started enjoying international breaks.

Alan McGuffog
47 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:08:49
Doesn't really bother me if Silva goes or stays. He is merely the head of the abscess. If it takes relegation to clear the rotten stinking Augean Stables that is Everton FC, then so be it.

And please... can someone explain what "the Everton Way" is?

Winston Williamson
48 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:09:40
Ryan, 33.

Where has Steve defended him today? He's just called his side pathetic??

Be angry, be furious, but don't take it out on a guy who sounds dejected, pissed off and in need of a pint!

Derek Knox
49 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:09:50
He was never my choice or cup of tea from day one, but surely this has to be the final straw. Get him out as soon as possible.
Kevin Dyer
50 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:10:05
Nothing to salvage from that, in truth. We offered nothing in the first half, they regained some confidence. When we created chances we couldn't capitalize. Our shot count was higher but they had the cleaner chances and deserved to win. We played with nerves, even our good moves seemed forced and a bit desperate.

Contrary to what people will say here, I think the players tried hard and are desperate to play well and win. I've seen teams look disinterested this season and not try and I'm not seeing that with us. But we lack confidence and seem aimless in our play and this is what results.

We're a third of the way through the season now and are not improving. Silva may end up a top coach but it's not going to be with us. Our next 5 fixtures look grim. Unless we perversely raise our game against better opposition, I don't see where our points are coming from.

With regret, it is time to call time on Marco. We need to bring in a man who knows what he's doing and has a proven record: Benitez if we can get him. The man may stress organisation and defensive strength but he is far from being another Big Sam; he is a genuine top manager who's won major trophies with different clubs. He probably should be awarded another for somehow keeping Newcastle up.

John McGimpsey
51 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:12:56
I see Davies back to his normal shit show. Silva has to go tonight but it is probably 5 weeks too late. The whole backroom staff need shut... but ToffeeTV doing the piece on the big jock and the arse-licking comments on YouTube sort of tells you he'll survive the cull. Given up me.
Jim Wilson
52 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:14:29
He should have gone weeks ago.

He must go now immediately!

Absolutely outrageous.

Ernie Baywood
53 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:15:59
Kevin #50. Perversely I think we will lift our game against the teams coming up. It could hardly get worse than that.

But Silva shouldn't get the opportunity. If you can't beat the bottom team at home, I'm not interested in how you do against the top 5. It won't prove anything about whether he can take this team forward.

He has to go now. We can't risk the points over the next few weeks. We need everything we can salvage.

Pat Kelly
54 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:17:27
No-one can now deny it's over for Silva. Crisis meeting of the Board probably being convened now while Moshiri is around. They gave him enough time but can't afford to waste anymore. The team is a shapeless shambles whatever he puts out.
Tony Hill
55 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:17:33
What's the common denominator down the years? It's an attitude of sentimentality and a failure of nerve whenever it matters. We need someone who will come in and rip the whole soap opera up.

We have too many cowardly players (I didn't go today and couldn't believe from the screen how sloppy we were in every detail) and we have a board comprised of incompetents. That's quite apart from the manager's deficiencies.

We are in danger of getting what we deserve at the end of this season if our self-indulgent and self-serving attitudes continue.

David Pearl
56 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:18:21
Wolves are flying now after a slow start. Silva is out of ideas. To stick with the same formation is beyond belief. I don't blame the players, it's more a mental thing. I expect Silva to go and NOW... but l will watch with interest the reaction from Richarlison.
Brian Williams
57 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:19:21
I'm not one for sacking a manager without having somebody ready to step in (à la Spurs) but — from the team selection, being unable to motivate the team, to the substitutions, to that truly scandalous performance — he HAS to be replaced.
Paul Tran
58 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:19:52
Any new manager will lift the players. The difficult early fixtures will give him a free pass.
David Dumphy
60 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:19:53
Moshiri, hasn't got a clue. Problem solved.
Christy Ring
61 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:19:54
ENOUGH!! Silva has to go this evening. We're in big trouble, absolutely abysmal performance, and the bottom team deserved the win.

No more excuses, he's out of his depth, and look at our next five fixtures. Sidibe was shocking, if Seamus played like that, he'd get some abuse here.

Rumours yesterday that Kenwright wants Moyes back. That's what pisses me off, I believe he still has too much say in all EFC managerial decisions.

Roman Sidey
62 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:20:04
Silva and his entire coaching staff need to go tonight. If the club waits until Sunday to sack them, the only justice is they are made to go to bed wondering. If and when he does get sacked – and surely the odds are very short – it had better be the end for Duncan "I'm a massive fraud" Ferguson as well.

Having said that, not one player in a blue shirt today earned their pay. Every single player was shit. Very shit. So shit that you really struggle to see how they're going to improve or get back to playing well because they seem broken.

I was watching and trying to think of some positives from some of the players and there is literally zero.

Nev Renshaw
63 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:20:15
Surely Silva's got to go now. This team is bloody disgraceful under his leadership. There's no belief on or off the pitch. If EFC don't bin him then we're out of this league at the end of the season.

If anybody says we're too good to go down, then just look at Leeds United. A great team of their era who went down all those years ago and are only now starting to come good again.

Ben Attwood
64 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:20:22
SACKED IN THE MORNING!!

I would prefer this evening.

He should have been dismissed way before now. After Millwall was my preference but definitely after any of Newcastle away, Fulham away, Sheff Utd home. He is crap. His tactics are crap. His selections are crap. His results are crap wherever he goes.

Can't help feeling we have missed a trick with Mourinho...

Raymond Fox
65 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:20:55
Isn't this what always happens at this club? I said as much pre-match.

They let you down every time when it's an important game, you just know it's going to happen.

Really it's become a farce now, you can sack the manager and all the players but would that cure the 'loser mentality' that pervades the club now? I have my doubts.

Tommy Surgenor
66 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:21:00
I've lost all patience now. The meta of the Premier League is dynamic fast attacking football. Yet Everton continue to play pedestrian crab-like side-to-side crap. With our next 5/6 fixtures we will be in bottom 3 come new year.

Silva is under big pressure but instead of taking a risk and doing something different, he plays it's safe and does the same thing that didn't work last week again.

He talked about 4-3-3 since his very first press conference but we are yet to see it. I admit he has been unlucky losing Gbamin in the first week and Gomes more recently. We also don't seem to get any luck or decisions going our way which is amplifying the situation.

Shocking! But the only time we should get rid of the manager is if we have a replacement ready. I don't want rid of Silva if it means Fat Sam or Mark Hughes.

We have the players to compete for top 6. Another summer window and we will have a great squad once deadwood like Schneiderlin, Walcott, Sigurdsson gets moved on. Just need someone in that's brave enough to play the right players to fit the system and not just play the ones with the biggest media reputation.

Ray Jacques
67 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:22:29
Someone said in a post that Silva is merely the head of the abscess. That is a perfect summary of the joke that is Everton Football Club. Sack the manager by all means but it won't make any difference just as it hasn't the last 3 times.

It will only change if they appoint a world-level manager, but the spineless board won't do that because such a man will want the club run on his terms and this would mean running a football club not having a club as a hobby. The cycle will therefore repeat, Moshiri will take his money out, we will be left with useless players on big money, long-term contracts and well you can determine the rest yourself.

Tony Hill
68 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:22:39
Kevin @50, Allardyce had us in 8th with a side of misfits. I didn't want him sacked and I do not think we would be where we are now if we had kept him. Universally unpopular to say it, I know, but there we are.

I have supported Silva but it's time we got our heads out of our arses about how poor we are as a whole club and stopped flattering ourselves. Once again we're in a position where we need to fight to survive. Benitez's record on relegation is not wonderful.

Neil Halliwell
69 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:22:44
Can David Moyes rescue this situation for us? He can at least teach them how to defend. If you watch the Finch Farm training sessions, it is clear these multi-millionaires are just having a laugh.
Frank Crewe
70 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:24:30
Kieran Kinsella @43,

A skinflint chairman? Just how much does he need to spend then? The club has spent millions since Moshiri arrived. Only Arsenal, Man Utd and Man City have a bigger net spend than us in the last 5 years. Yet we still keep skimping on second-rate managers. You want a top side, you have to have a top manager.

Jim Wilson
71 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:25:01
The club are treating the supporters with contempt if he doesn't go immediately.

This fiasco must end now and only a top-line manager considered.

No Moyes;
No Hughes;
No youngster.

Steve Brown
72 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:25:04
Dead from the moment he picked Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Tosun down the spine of the team. He has selected the wrong formation and tactics once too often and has to go tonight.

People quoting Moyes, Benitez, Cahill, Arteta — you don't win trophies by hiring managers who a) got their team relegated; b) manage clubs outside the top ten; c) have not won a trophy; or d) have no managerial experience. When are we going to learn?

Andrew Hight
73 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:25:52
Team selection by a lottery machine. Wait until losing then throw on all 3 subs at the same time. Standard mad approach. I think this is the season the wheels finally come off and down we could go, Leeds style.

If the board don't have someone lined up and bring them in within the next couple of days, then they're an even worse board than the clowns running Metro Bank.

Kevin Dyer
74 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:26:02
Ernie @53, I agree. It was great getting a few wins against "Big 6" opponents last season – very much overdue – but when we get done like a kipper against the dross of the Premier League it doesn't really count for much.

We always struggle to break down organized opposition but (sometimes) play well against more expansive outfits, that will leave space. That's not a recipe for anything other than mediocrity over the course of a season and I'm seeing no signs of this changing.

No doubt many on here will call out individual players that are pet targets (I see Davies getting slated in one post a few positions down) but the way we go about things the personnel are kind of interchangeable. People call for x player instead of y, (who's shit, slow, a coward etc); x then plays, we still stink etc. Won't stop folks rehashing the same tired arguments, however.

Paul Bernard
75 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:26:23
For the majority of you on here that leathered me and a select few others for saying Brands left us well short on deadline day, I hope you are all proud of yourselves for trying so hard to show you were proper fans and the minority were idiots.

January 2019, we all knew Gana was off to PSG; luckily we kept him until the summer.

July 2019, we all knew the Chelsea manager's position was under threat and any new manager would likely go over his squad to decide who to keep and sell.

August 2019 - Brands is chasing a winger on the WRONG SIDE OF THE PITCH TOO, I might add, for £70M, instead of bringing in either a proven goal scorer or midfielder and centre-half.

Silva will rightly get the sack but I would also be telling Brands he is next if he doesn't sort this out either with his next managerial input or, if we survive, he has this summer to get it right.

Blame the manager all you want but he has been left woefully short of class on the pitch. Morgan Schneiderlin played today... let that sink in.

David Thomas
76 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:27:23
Steve @31,

I think a lot of us can't be arsed reading your rubbish either.

Jim Wilson
77 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:28:53
We need to act fast as other clubs might be in need of a manager soon and we will end up with the usual situation of no-one being available.
Derek Knox
78 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:29:01
While I agree with shouts of "Silva Out", it'll be like the Game of Monopoly he gets told to Go and collects, not 200 quid either, it'll be several millions.

What other job would that happen in? He has failed to do what was required so should be in breach of contract, and I abhor the fact that people get 'rewarded for failure'.

David Pearl
79 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:29:34
Tony Hill,

I'd've kept Allardyce too. 8th with shit players and Cuco Martina as a left-back. Footie was shit but it would've got better. Fans wouldn't allow it. Just like we hounded out Martínez.

I'd have Martínez back or Arteta. Let's play football, ffs.

Sam Hoare
80 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:33:30
Another terrible Saturday. I said in post 3 that I thought it a terrible lineup and so it proved.

It was a huge match. Win that well and we're top 9 with two wins in a row and some cause for optimism. As it is, December looks frightening and confidence is back to zero.

I've supported Silva from the start but I think we may have crossed the point of no return. I would not be at all surprised if Brands opts to give him another 2 or 3 matches but, for me, it's inevitable now.

I think the disparity between my expectations for this season and how it has gone has never been bigger. What a shambles.

Mick Conalty
81 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:33:31
Is Moshiri another Liverpool infiltrator? If not, he must be just a fucking dickhead.
Paul Bernard
82 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:37:44
For what it's worth we should avoid Moyes at all costs. I'd love him to come back but he runs a club from top to bottom virtually. He will not sit there being dictated to by Brands.

Moyes scouted his own players, picked them, took the plaudits, took the flak, trained the lads, helped them grow as players and people. He will have none of that under the DOF model.

Swerve Brands and bring Moyes in so, if it goes wrong, we know who to blame – as well as credit, if things improve.

Jim Bennings
83 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:40:08
Appoint a winner or just give the job to Duncan Ferguson until May.

What’s the point in pissing away another shit load of money on a Davie Moyes/Allardyce appointment?

Benitez, Pochettino or don’t bother.

Rudy Chinchilla
84 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:44:12
I was only able to listen to the match commentary, but my God, you could just tell we weren't gonna get a result with that starting 11. Silva must go.
John McGimpsey
85 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:44:34
Just heard that there will be a stadium announcement for Monday.

Oh, hang on...

David Connor
86 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:44:58
Absolutely gutted at how low this club has gone. Piss poor from top to bottom. Silva has to go tonight. When you get outplayed by a team that get beat, week-in & week-out, you are in serious trouble, and we are.

These players are getting their money far to easily for me. Put us out of our misery, Mr Moshiri, please, and sack that useless bastard tonight. Take a step down and appoint someone who knows how to run a football club.

Personally I wouldn't give a flying fuck if we sold any of them players. They are below-average at best. Get rid of Tosun, Sigurdsson, Schniederlin and Walcott while we are at it. Them fuckers are robbing wages off the club. Wasters.

Gavin Johnson
87 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:45:40
Silva has to go tonight. If we were a big club, we might have been able to pursue Pochettino, but Silva will go and we'll hire Moyes or Unsworth and review things at the end of the season.
John McGimpsey
88 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:47:46
Jim Bennings... is that you, Bill? The big jock should be nowhere near this club. Melt-face has had this up his sleeve for years.

I wrote a piece on this on Bluekipper maybe five years ago. Dunc gets the job, whoppers are made up.

We go down and Blue Bill says "Well, you asked for him." Blue Bill walks away scott free... Please aim higher... we missed the boat this week.

Rob Young
89 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:48:13
Can we also can the volume on that "Operation Goodison" announcement? It's splitting my ears.
Ralph Basnett
90 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:49:06
I've finally figured it, we are shoite for one reason and that is the new stadium.

Just hear me out.

The council loan would make us look bad in the current times of austerity and Brexit.

Usmanov is not committed.

So Blue Bill calls Marco into his office: “So, Marco, there's no money for the stadium but I have a cunning plan. Chop and change the team, play out-of-form players, do not dare give youth or new players a chance and we get relegated, huge parachute payments finance the stadium, job's a good 'un. Win, win, win – as long as we lose, lose, lose”.

Danny Baily
91 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:49:18
Out. Now.
Gerry Ring
92 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:51:03
It was never going to be any different with Silva. No track record and no clue. How in god's name did anybody think he was going to be a success???
Stephen Davies
94 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:53:48
Jim,

Unless Usmanov is in the background, there is no chance of getting Pochettino and if he – by any chance he was interested – you can bet he is in the background.

However, back to reality: I suspect Moyes may well be approached, as a stop-gap (hopefully) till the end of the season, for some sort of stability. At the moment I can only think of Rafa that would be interested.

Pat Kelly
95 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:56:15
Pep could be available soon...
Mick Conalty
96 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:56:21
Is Brands still pleased with his summer signings?
Derek Taylor
97 Posted 23/11/2019 at 17:57:35
Paul @82; What exactly has Brands done to earn your respect and admiration? He has proved just as incompetent as his predecessor, signing a long string of players whose attitude frankly stinks.

There's more than the absence of a good manager wrong here, we have a long roster of grossly overpaid poseurs who will take time and money to shift. Moshiri has achieved sweet FA – apart from making Kenwright and his buddies super-rich!

Bill Watson
98 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:00:18
Another totally abject performance from this mismanaged disjointed team.

Why is this car crash of a manager still in post?

Mike Kehoe
99 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:00:56
It would be an amazing piece of business to secure Pochettino and dump this useless gobshite.
Steve Barnes
100 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:01:14
I really wanted Silva to be the next best thing. I didn't want Allardyce (even though he got results); I wanted (like most) Martinez to go and Koeman in and then to go.

Time for Mr Silva, as well as a lot of the squad, to go. Now. But why can't Everton do what the chicken legs did? Fire and hire in 12 hours. All lined up and no-one knew.

Come on, Everton. Get it right. And quickly.

Norwich, at home?

Just not acceptable.

Ian Riley
101 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:02:24
As fans, we will be writing the same old shite as we have done for the last 20 years!! I am becoming bored with below-average. Perhaps it's best left for the next generation. The rain never stops and we never perform consistently.

The owner needs to rid the whole football management team and put Mr Kenwright out to grass. Big changes need to come. Get a manager to keep us in this league. Anyone who doesn't believe we are in trouble, please see a doctor Monday morning as a matter of urgency!!

Ernie Baywood
102 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:04:16
Fuck it. Roberto, all is forgiven. Bravest manager we've had.
Ed Prytherch
103 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:04:32
It's not just the fans who have given up on Silva, the players have too. It's unlikely that we will pick up many points in the next few games so there is little to lose by firing him now.
Paul Jeronovich
104 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:04:54
Sack him immediately. From my seat in the ground, that was as bad, if not worse than Martinez at the peak of his pathetic showing as a manager.
Christopher Stubbs
105 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:06:01
I think it's time to order up the taxi. Or nowadays, an Uber would be okay. But Farhad Moshiri is no John Moores.
Paul A Smith
106 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:08:56
It's game over now, Marco. Just hope the new man has a wand to get these deadhead so-called footballers a win now and again.

We're going to end up with Moyes back.

Well said, Derek. Some absolute crap on that pitch.

Jay Harris
107 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:10:01
Denise Barrett-Baxendale, Kenwright, Brands and Moshiri sat together at a game for the first time. Something must be going on. Hopefully they will make a decision tonight.

From what I hear, Kenwright and Moshiri were told in no uncertain terms by supporters that this shit show has to be stopped.

Trevor Peers
108 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:13:11
Silva just wants his £6 million pay off, hence the 'blame the players' presser, Moshiri is to blame if we keep him on.
Paul Tran
109 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:15:40
Plays a team with slow players and bemoans lack of pace. Hmm.

Slow, dull, passionless, lack of goals, lack of defensive organisation.

If he's a great coach, he's hidden it very well.

No way back for him in my view.

And please, not Moyes, not Hughes.

Kunal Desai
110 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:15:46
Silva will be gone soon enough but do I have any faith in the hierarchy to start getting decisions right? No.

Poor appointments in last 3½ years since Moshiri has come in, poor managerial appointments in Koeman, Allardyce and Silva, inadequate preparation and recruitment in the summer when we clearly fell short on numbers by three or four players, together with the previous season of signing off a scatter-gun approach in recruitment with no real thought process.

I hold very little hope that, between Moshiri, Brands and the rest who sit on that board, there is any positivity in the direction we are going or the direction they want this club to go. Premier League survival seems to be key. There is no strategy to move the club forward and that is evident from what I have witnessed since the arrival of Moshiri.

Jim Bennings
111 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:16:02
Why do people expect any different from Moshiri and Kenwright?

They are a complete Carry On comedy duo that just muddle through from one farce to another.

Every managerial appointment so far has been screwed up, costing millions to first entice and then payoff each one.

The player recruitment is a disaster, paying massive amounts for other teams rejects and none of them with backbone or willpower.

Joke club.

Jason Lloyd
112 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:16:04
A game versus Norwich and you don't play 2 upfront.

You play Sigurdsson, whose form is stinking the place out.

Schniederlin is quite frankly an embarrassment to Everton Football Club and needs to be sold immediately.

I could go on and on.

There is a cancer at the club and it's not just the players – the staff and the Board reek of "I don't give a shit, just pay me!"

Danny Baily
113 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:18:15
Why has he not been sacked yet?
Kevin Molloy
114 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:19:07
Davey will be gargling with the Old Spice as we speak...
Paul A Smith
115 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:19:31
Paul 75. I ageee totally. What he has got to choose from is outrageous and some are calling for Pochettino.

Imagine his hysterical laughing every training session working with our strikers and midfielders after working with Erikson and Kane.

Dave Williams
116 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:21:35
Where has the pride gone? How can we be allowed to lurch from one disaster to another while the neighbours go from strength to strength?

What has anyone seen to suggest Silva will suddenly realise that he keeps picking teams which are slow in mind, ponderous in movement and lack the basic guts to win a game from a losing position — that last fact is pathetic.

We supporters want a team to be proud of, to give us some pleasure and entertainment and allow us to talk football to friends and colleagues without being embarrassed at admitting who we support.

Enough is enough- this guy has to go now and bring someone in who has the gumption to get a grip of the club on the playing side, get his own coaching choices in place and give youth a chance where a strong case is made for a first-team chance.

Give us our pride back – now – please!!!

Alan McGuffog
117 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:24:33
Just been for a shower. Has he gone?
Christy Ring
118 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:26:27
Same old boring tactics again today, play Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, so you’re guaranteed slow pedestrian football, and like he did against Sheffield United, when we went a goal down, loses the plot, and brings on 3 subs at the one time. His managerial decisions are shocking, and his track record is abysmal.
Nick White
119 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:26:32
Ernie #102. “Roberto, all is forgiven. Bravest manager we've had.”

I can only think you aren’t a regular match goer. Absolutely awful manager and a shocking team selection / tactics. Absolutely no chance! I still feel ill about his last 2 seasons in charge!

Paul Smith
120 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:26:55
Silva has to go now but lets not kid ourselves, many of our players our shite!.

If its Moyes or Hughes we really have gone backwards, Rafa is a decent prospect. Rogers was my pick.

Daniel A Johnson
121 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:27:14
Marco SIlva is a Rubbish coach who is simply unable to motivate, inspire and fire up a team for the rigours of the Premier League.

The fact his team are yet to come back from a 1-0 deficit to win shows the lack of fight in his team. By keeping him on what are the board hoping he suddenly becomes, what message does this send. Its getting worse not better and this sticking by the manager and hoping for a miracle is typical Everton.

Are we a big club with balls who is going to sack the man or are we the nice small family club Everton who can't be nasty and will give this clown time to humiliate us all further.

Go Marco just simply fuck off and go now.

Big clubs act its as simple as that, Marco SIlva has had a fair crack and he's simply not up to the task.

Jim Bennings
122 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:27:43
Two years on from selling the best striker this club has had in 25 years (Romelu Lukaku) and we are starting with Cenk Tosun up front alone, at home to Norwich fuckin City.

What other clubs sells a talismanic centre forward and spends millions on replacing him with absolutely skank footballers.?

Is Richarlison a striker?

If he is and that’s his best position then bloody play him there because I can tell you one thing, a wide midfielder he most certainly ain’t!

Who signed Moise Kean?

Was it Brands or was it Silva?

Is he that bad in training that he can’t get on the pitch in a team that possesses the punch of a glass of water?

Why is Schneiderlin starting at home to Norwich?

Why sign Iwobi when he’s not preferred over Sigurdsson whose legs have totally gone this season?

Why was Zouma not replaced and why were we left with a flimsy looking bunch of defenders (ok Mina has been ok ) but Keane and Holgate are piss weak for Premier League centre backs.

Brands has quickly become Steve Walsh and Silva has quickly become our worst nightmare rolled into one.

And the players?

Waste of skin and wage the lot of them.

Tom Bowers
123 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:28:27
Even if the manager is changed now it's hard to see anything in the win column from here to Xmas even the Mickey Mouse cup.
The squad is poor as well as the strategies and coaching.
Not having 3 players available hasn't helped but the writing was on the wall way before that.
Everton must be the poorest and slowest team in trying to pass the ball downfield and it's hardly surprising that even other poor teams realise they can capitalize on this weakness.
Walcott and Richarlison are very poor at tracking back with Schneiderlin a very poor defensive midfielder.
Tosun, granted, has had little starting time but quite honestly he is barely Championship calibre.
If this is Silva's strongest starting eleven then God knows how little he rates everyone else.
Today was the final embarrassment and we all hope that within 24 hours Moshiri calls the ''taxi''.
James Stewart
124 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:28:33
First of all, that was simply disgusting. Even more so than under Allardyce. Enough is enough, that was a sackable performance.

Moving forward I have grave concerns it will be another brainless appointment post Silva.

Paul Tran
125 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:29:45
'It was the players fault' can be translated as 'I'm not resigning, you're going to have to sack me and pay me off.'

It would be a wise investment.

John Hammond
126 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:30:27
Having seen the lineup before the game my only conclusion was that he purposely picked that team because he wants to be sacked. Therefore it's time.
Ray Jacques
127 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:32:34
Pochettino????? Why would he come to this shambles of a club.
Moyes will be wheeled out at a press conference one cold dark night after our annual defeat in the derby where the ginger one had a phenomenal record. They won't dare appoint him before this game. Cue Kenwright gushing crap about the prodigal son, true blue, he never wanted to leave, its a dream true blue duo with Big Dunc, blah de blah, same old shite, same old results.
John Pierce
128 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:34:09
I said weeks ago, my ire isn’t really with Silva. It’s focused on the board and their attitude to it all.

Moshiri & Brands are on the hook for this. Every week they leave it hurts the club.

Rob Marsh
129 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:36:31
SKY has Mark Hughes as 6/4 fav to become our next manager??? Have they got together with the RWK forum for an early April fools?

I'm just as fearful of who they bring in as who we've currently got.

Dave Evans
131 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:41:26
Silva sets up teams for possession and control. The premier league is at least half about passion and percentages.
He should have used Goodison and set up to tear into Norwich today.
He doesn't get it.
Look how Rodgers has transformed a flagging Leicester side instilling an attacking and aggressive ethos.
Bill Gall
132 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:42:48
First I have never wished Everton loose a game to get the manager fired. But after today I am disgusted with a manager who, has been given ample funds,can not even organize a team to get even a draw at home.
We have just been beaten,at home, by a team who have (a) one of the worst goals against record in the league, (b) haven't scored an away goal since August and are bottom of the league.
Yet this team managed to keep its defensive shape controlled midfield and put pressure on the Everton defense and scored 2 goals.
This is one of the poorest games that has been seen at Goodison Park this season, and although the players should shoulder some of the blame, ultimately it is the manager's responsibility to manage the game both during training and the game.
Silva's premier record in the premier league was not very good, and this made some supporters question his appointment.
This season the performance from an Everton team under Silva's guidance has been hot and cold, and definitely not going to get a top 6 position, and looking at upcoming games I am worried that Everton, who can not beat a team 3 pts below them will be embarrassed by a team 23 pts ahead of them.
It is difficult to fathom out this board, but I don't know how a person can be so incompetent in his position as
Silva is, to be able to keep his job.
Once again over 3800 people were at Goodison and I will be amazed if this figure does not fall in the future, and after all these are the people ( THE SUPPORTERS ) who made this club and to loose even 1 is the fault of the board if they bury their head in the sand and ignore the position the club is in.
As for all their fine work in the community and the promise of a new ground,it is the premier league team in who the supporters are interested in and if they loose interest none of this will continue.
Denis Richardson
133 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:43:50
Biggest problem right now isn’t Silva (the guy was always the wrong choice as it is). Main problem is the board - they just don’t seem to have a clue and the comment denominator is a certain Bill Kenwright.

I still cannot believe Kenwright has so much influence at this club when Moshiri has pumped in literally hundreds of millions.

Silva needs to go immediately - no more farting around seeing if he ‘can turn it around’. He can’t - has failed at every UK club he’s managed. The next manager should be a winner and not bloody Moyes or the ‘next up and coming’.

Get an experienced guy in who knows the premiership and can win (ie not Moyes) and let’s steady the ship. We have a decent squad just missing a strong spine. We’ve spent far too long trying to sign wingers when we don’t have a decent dominant CD, CM or striker.

Personally I’d send Benitez a first class one way ticket from China to Merseyside with an SOS attached to it. I honestly could not care less that he’s managed Liverpool in the past - the situation we’re in is far too serious for such sentimentalities.

Silva will be shown the door but my fear is Kenwright convinces Moshiri to bring back bloody Moyes! The only worse appointment would be Allardyce.

Silva should have been sacked a month ago.

Daniel A Johnson
134 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:43:53
Agree John (128) the board are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing. Its not Marco SIlvas fault he's not been sacked.

The whole set up look frozen and impotent. Daniel Levy sacked one of the best managers in world football for a single bad run of results and that manager got them to a champions league final last season.

Yet we for some reason are unable to sack SIlva.

Due to sentiment? financial reasons? gross incompteance? weak leadership?

I could go on forever but we are officially a small time club, the Everton from the 80s is dead. When bottom of the table Norwich come to your own back yard and give you a good hiding you know something is very very very wrong.

Tony Abrahams
135 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:44:22
As bad as Liverpool when we lost by five goals, as bad as Tranmere when we lost by three goals. I’m older, I hope it makes me wiser, and this is the reason I was hoping to keep Silva until the end of the season, but after witnessing that, up there with some of the worst Everton performances I’ve ever seen, I’m not sure it would be wise to keep Marco Silva past seven o’clock tonight.
Paul Jeronovich
136 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:44:33
Has that useless prick Silva been sacked yet?
David Greenwood
137 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:45:29
No. Sorry Paul.
Rob Marsh
138 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:45:37
Dave # 131

If there's one game during Silva's time here that proves he has no understanding of British football or how to adapt (especially during a game), it is the Millwall game in the rain, he was absolutely clueless.

John Kavanagh
139 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:47:17
Let's not say Silva has achieved nothing. He's in a class of his own as the only premier league manager to have lost at home against the then bottom club FOUR times.

Silva has lost all four of his Premier League home games against sides starting the day bottom of the table - 0-2 vs Sunderland in May 2017 (with Hull), 1-2 vs Swansea in December 2017 (with Watford) 1-3 vs West Ham in September 2018 with us and now 0-2 against Norwich.

Makes you burst with pride.

Whoever convinced Moshiri that we should appoint this clown needs shooting, hopefully with more accuracy than our forward line.

Danny Broderick
140 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:47:49
Absolutely terrible day at the office. The manager has to go. He keeps on making the same mistakes. Too stubborn with his formation, and the repeated selection of Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson is going to be his downfall. We have got major problems though that go far deeper than the manager.

This Director of Football role is not working for us. We have had 2 now and the worst thing for me is the absolute lack of character in the team. There are no leaders, there is no anger in the players even when we are getting beat by bottom of the league. No one points a finger, there’s no inquest when we concede a goal. We’ve got a team of lemmings.

We are lacking a spine both in the dugout and on the pitch. Absolute shambles.

Colin Glassar
141 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:48:57
I haven’t been on here for a while, as my life long obsession with Everton has sadly come to an end, but even I get pissed off with Silva and his pathetic excuses.

The man needs to go now. He’s an empty shell. He’s expired. He’s stiff as a board. He’s pining for the fjords. He’s a fucking dead parrot! Taxi for Marco!!!

Andrew Keatley
142 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:49:58
We should make the change now - ideally bringing someone in over the next few days. I think any new manager would use the next 6 games (5 EPL, 1 EFL Cup) to try and see what our squad has about them. We might struggle but I would expect that we'd find out a bit about some of the younger players - definitely Kean and Gordon, but also Baningime (who should come in for Schneiderlin now), Adeniran, and maybe even one or two others - as well as putting new challenges and tactics in front of our consistently underperforming squad. Should we need to use the transfer market in January - and let's face it, we will - then the new manager will have had at least a month to assess the squad. 8 games in December in all.

If we stick with Silva then I am pretty confident that we will end this upcoming 6 game pre-Xmas period with very few points added, having persevered with the same bland and unimaginative tactics and team selections, and we will be in an even worse place for whoever eventually takes over - be that in January or after. Things are dire.

My fear is that Silva will be given the next two games at least (Leicester away and Liverpool away) - possibly even until the 18th - the EFL quarter-final; any stay of execution could be as much about not lumping a new manager with a tricky series of games that could start their tenure with a bad of run of initial results than it is about finding the right candidate. I think any confidence in Silva to lead the club forward long-term has to be gone.

Peter Laing
143 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:50:08
I listened to Silva's post match presser - intelligible. No apology to the fans no act of contrition. I know it was a typo Bill Gall your reference to 3,800 supporters, it will be soon mate the way we are going or if Moyes comes back.
Karl Meighan
144 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:50:47
Dont see the point in keeping him, this team is never going to string a long winning streak together so we just end up with lots of "must win games". Going around in circles which wont do anyone no good least of all the players.

Next week will see the return of Coleman and Calvert Lewin. We have paid a fortune for a striker if he's not good enough lets find out. Brands should also lose his job as well as all the backroom staff.

We need to stop the rot of the first team quickly, then put solid foundations in place. I have no faith in this Club to produce Premier league players good enough to play in a successfull Everton team. We seem intent on producing good junior teams when its good players we need to produce.

Raymond Fox
145 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:53:17
Nick # 119, Belgium!
Darren Murphy
146 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:55:07
Do you realise what I have to do every day to protect this country and come home yesterday to see this bullshit?


Nah because they couldn't give a fuck, this beam are frail, inept and so hard done by. Our players are weak bar 2, on occasion.

Don't start me on Silva...I never wanted him here.


Welcome home Dazz my ass.

FUC. why bother. Have a good night lads n lasses.

From a mug

Bill Gall
147 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:55:13
Wonder who the player will be on Monday that will be rolled out to say Silva is a great manager and one of the best they have worked with.
Peter Neilson
148 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:56:23
While our problems are bigger than just Silva he is the one that has to be dealt with immediately. Not even a glimpse of a tactical plan or any gradual improvements. Gylfi, possibly worst performance by a captain I’ve watched combined invisibility with ineptitude. Should be nowhere near the first team. Pretty much started with 9 men with him and Morgan on the pitch. Depressing stuff.
Bill Gall
149 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:57:56
Sorry Peter definitely a typo it shoud be 38,ooo
Paul Birmingham
150 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:58:12
Well it was a must win game, bearing what’s coming up the next two months in fixtures.

For the life in me it’s becoming so predictable that the team is set up, almost to fail.

There’s nothing more to say, and the permanent stench of mediocrity and hopelessness, is sadly once again set permanently around Goodison Park.

Today like many times in the past v Norwich, we got what we deserved.

Whatever engine oil and fuel this squad uses every day in training, God only knows.

The sad thing is now, I don’t see any rays of hope in the run up to Chrimbo and next year.

I feel sorry for Kean, and I am not sure if any manager of goodstock would come Everton.

But now I can’t see Marco Silva lasting the next three games, and on this form I don’t see Everton getting any points till next year.

Slow, pedestrian and thoughtless, and embarrassing.

Farhad must be concerned as the business model, and sponsorship deals, could get terminated if we scrape home and stay up.

This is relegation form, and like two years ago, we need a transfusion of energy, guile and hope.

The players are characterless and are once again playing with fear and almost very little hope.

And to cap another weekend of Everton doing the usual, the RS, get off again with a dodgy VAR.

Rob Marsh
151 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:58:25
Bill # 147

"Wonder who the player will be on Monday that will be rolled out to say Silva is a great manager "

I very much doubt it will be Kean & Keane will be too keen !!!

Paul A Smith
152 Posted 23/11/2019 at 18:58:29
The club ambitions proved to be mediocre when we never went for the availabe Mourinho.

It will do the same with Pochettino for all those that want him. The truth of it is, who fancies us to beat Leicester with a new manager?

Andy Crooks
153 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:00:43
It really is over. He is lamentable,uninspiring, stubborn and utterly inept and must be sacked. But no, please one mention the "Legend" even as a stop gap. When Silva goes, surely to fuck "the legend" goes with him.
There is no defence for the coach. This was his last chance at the big time. Back to Greece. He is useless.
Dave Lynch
154 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:01:38
Trust me... The derby will see him off.

That will be a mauling the way we are playing,

Christy Ring
155 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:02:05
Our last few managerial appointments, including Silva, have all been with teams involved in relegation battles, so where is the ambition, and who is in charge of the managerial appointments, up to now. Silva has to be sacked now, and Moshiri has to try a fresh approach, and not listen to Kenwright, and bring in a manager with a winning mentality
Rob Marsh
156 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:03:19
Andy # 153

How about another legend?

Mark Hughes is 6/4 favourite, doesn't that fill you with cheer?

Eddie Dunn
157 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:03:36
Christy @118 sums it up perfectly. We could all see the folly of he slow players...Siggi, Schniedes, and Tosun but 3 subs at once...just weird. Silva has completey bamboozled us with his tactics, selections (at times) and especially his subs. He is woefully out of his depth and hoestly, I cannoot think of any manager in the PL who is worse at his job.
Dave Evans
158 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:04:03
Rob @ 138
I am convinced Silva still doesn't get the premier league.
What Guardiola learnt after his first season in the premier league, Silva still has not in three or four.
Rob Marsh
159 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:04:58
Christy # 155,

He's going Monday, surely?

Mark Guglielmo
160 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:05:58
Mick @96/ Derek @97

You guys have to be fair, or at least attempt to once the rage has subsided.

"What exactly has Brands done to earn your respect and admiration. He has proved just as incompetent as his predecessor, signing a long string of players whose attitude frankly stinks.

There's more than the absence of a good manager wrong here, we have a long roster of grossly overpaid poseurs who will take time and money to shift. Moshiri has achieved sweet FA - apart from making Kenwright and his buddies super rich !"

Today's starting XI:
Tosun - not Brands
Richarlison - Brands
Sigurdsson - not Brands
Walcott - not Brands
Davies - not Brands
Schneiderlin - not Brands

Digne - Brands
Mina - Brands
Holgate - not Brands
Sidibe - Brands (loan)
Pickford - not Brands
----
Iwobi (IMO the only player worth a shit today) - Brands
Coleman (also not bad) - not Brands
DCL - not Brands

----
players who DNP:
Kean - Brands
Gomes (inj) - Brands
Gbamin (inj) - Brands
Bernard (inj) - Brands

I mean...barring injury and better lineup selection, 8 of 10 starters (11 if you count Pickford) would be Brands signings. Instead Marco trots out the same garbage that has proven to not work time & time again.

Plenty of rage to go around; Brands isn't deserving of any of it IMO.

Ray Jacques
161 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:06:13
Can I publicly apologize to my 23 year old son for making him be an Evertonian.
Trevor Peers
162 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:06:15
By Tuesday all the Silva sychopants will be explaining how he needs more time, with thier endless statistics about 'how it's not as bad as it seems'.

Shameful support for an absolute loser of a manager. Small minded supporters if that's the case, are we are no better than Watford Norwich and West Brom and the rest, is that how far we have really fallen ?

We should act together now in wanting a change. Someone new who will bring a feel good factor, someone who can bring back some pride. Those against it are destroying our souls.

Sandra Williams
163 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:06:38
Has he gone yet?!! I thought by the time I got home from watching that shambles then it would be Sky Breaking News because they just LOVE a crisis at a Premier League Club, don't they?! I agree with the comments already on here and having been going to Goodison since 1975 I have seen many horrendous matches and scorelines. BUT I always thought that we had a backbone somewhere, a never-say-die spirit, someone to galvanise players when things were going a bit awry. Today there wasn't an ounce of it anywhere!! But then again, why are we so surprised?! Silva has been pretty much a dead-man walking all season and whilst a lot of the players have to take a huge portion of responsibility, the Manager is where the buck stops. He has to go now because none of us can see him getting us out of this mess. He's lost the fans and probably the players. My best mate is a West Ham fan who goes to every home. am not sure which of us is the more miserable, frustrated or angry tonight! But hey ho I may win the lottery later!
Darren Murphy
164 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:06:48
Hi Colin Glasser, hope you are well man.

Exactly. I'm done now mate.

Should be allowed to swoop Goodison with my team and rid the bullshit...

They're fucking lucky hahahahahahahaa. Men?

Andy Crooks
165 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:10:43
Paul, Mourinho was never,ever coming to Everton and he made his preferred choices clear. Never, Everton. That was not about mediocrity. Pochettino, now you're talking. That would be bold. If it is Moyes or Hughes I do not expect to be held accountable for my actions. Yet.. Silva stinks of relegation. He has form and the necessary stubborness and arrogance. This man could do it.
He really must go.
David Pearl
166 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:12:21
Just heard he will be gone tonight. I hope so. Enough. I've had to turn my phone off because of redshites calling me. £500M for 15th. Should've changed him last year, never mind letting it get so far that we have now changed expectations from top 6 to top half.
Nick White
167 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:15:56
Mark #160.

I agree!

Rob Marsh
168 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:15:58
Mark Guglielmo # 160

Very good point made there, but there's one you left out?

Silva - not Brands

Silva is the responsibility of Moshiri as was Koeman.

It just wouldn't be fair to sack him yet, but having said that I'm disappointed he didn't spend the Kean money towards a decent proven forward instead of the gamble on Kean.

Brian Denton
169 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:16:46
Paul Smith @120, I must admit to feeling some regret at seeing Rogers having Leicester in 2nd place and playing good football.

Moshiri seems pretty crap at picking managers, so I don't hold out much hope for his next appointment.

Another season down the drain. Unless I beat the odds for my family's longevity, I ain't got too many left!

Tony Hill
170 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:18:11
I would like to stress how dreadful the players are. Appalling first touch, reckless passing, blind crossing, no movement, stupid fouls conceded, inept finishing.

They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves the lazy, cowardly, godawful arseholes.

Still, why should they care?

Colin Glassar
171 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:18:23
I hope we go for a British manager. Our last three imports have been an unmitigated disaster. Hundreds of millions down the toilet and are we any better off?

Let’s get someone who understands the football culture here and who can express themselves in clear, precise English. We’ve gone from the bard of San Sebastián to the wooden tulip to the captain of the Lusitania.

I’d rather go back to the days of poor, skint Everton (who showed some guts) than watch this expensively assembled bunch of losers. Goodbye Marco.

Joey Crawley
172 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:22:02
We need to get on the blower to Pochettino el Pronto, dis gringo Silva is turning our squad and our fans into a loco swarm of La Cucarachas essays.

I pity da fool who hired dis fool, a plague upon their houses, give the Poch and his staff a helicopter they can ride back and too to the smoke, a sack full of shekels in January and I'm sure he will sign the contract.

There's never been a better time to sack off the Silva, 'every cloud' an all dat...

Tony Abrahams
173 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:22:42
Dave@131, comes up with the most telling thing I’ve read on this thread, even though I’ve just skirted over it.

“He should have used Goodison to tear all over Norwich”, and that is what we need off our next manager, because it’s a long time since we have had a manager who understands how very important Everton’s crowd can be.

Maybe the booing at half time affected Holgate, because the kid never done a thing right in the second half, but the fans can’t be slagged for booing, because they only want to see an aggressive Everton team, which wants to attack, wants to excite, and all’s they are witnessing is possibly the most passive Everton team they've ever seen.

If the first half was sterile, the second half just made me “uncomfortably numb” and even when he was getting slaughtered with “you’re getting sacked in the morning” the crowd still never sang his name.

Maybe I’m wrong? But the last three managers of Everton, have never had there name sang by the crowd, and surely it’s no coincidence that none of them have tried to play the type of football that we crave?

Daniel A Johnson
174 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:23:38
Pochettinno has the pick of world football to choose from Barca, Man U, Madrid, Bayern.

He aint coming here you deluded fools.

The same with Mourinho.....did you think he got of bed and looked at the likes of Niasse, DCL, Tosun and thought yeah that's a forward line I'm excited to work with......Jesus wept.

Dyche, Howe, Moyes, Hughes maybe Rafa.

That's our level

Anthony A Hughes
175 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:31:01
Rinse, repeat, three year team project, multiple new stadiums blah, blah, blah, blah de fucking blah. Sick of it.
Joe Corgan
176 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:33:07
Kenwright, Ryazantsev and Brands got an earful from a lot of Everton fans after the match.

There was clear anger towards Silva at the final whistle (who disappeared down the tunnel very quickly) but from my seat, around eight rows behind the directors, a lot of the so-called prawn sandwich brigade quickly turned their ire towards the top dogs.

If they don’t act now then surely Leicester away is a free hit followed by the derby. A big defeat at Anfield and Silva’s position surely becomes untenable.

John Boon
177 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:33:11
Whoever takes over will be better than what we have now. He just HAS to go. Please !!!!!
Gavin Johnson
178 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:34:09
Pochettinno is a pipe dream. I think Howe would probably be the best fit from the list of managers we could realistically get.
Pat Kelly
179 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:38:43
There can be no more chances for Silva. He's a busted flush and has been for months. Any further delay will compound the dire situation we're in. Anyone who can keep us up will do for now. Moshiri must see that. He has waited too long already.
John Keating
180 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:39:13
All my long life a match going supporter through thick and thin
Just in and trying to compose myself
I really could cry, honestly cry, at the state of my team
There’s been a couple of times in my lifetime with the team that I really have been fearful. Another is tonight.

We have a total fraud managing our team, yet another
4231 against the bottom club who can’t score and ship goals
3 players who would not get in Tranmere's team. Unforgivable

No doubt we’ll get the usual crew on with their excuses

Today there is no excuse none whatsoever

Doesn’t matter who replaces the fraud He or she couldn’t be any worse

I am absolutely gutted

Daniel A Johnson
181 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:39:34
Im all for a pragmatic manager and if that's the way the board want to go then great but I would prefer Dyche over a Moyes revist or heaven forbid Mark hughes.

Dyche would drill us and get us hungry again. I'm worried what would happen with Eddie Howe and this squad.

Either way whoever takes this is on is one brave bastard were shocking

Andrew Keatley
182 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:42:29
David (166) - That better be a good source you've got for that - otherwise your post is just cruel... Will be ecstatic if he is in fact gone. At least we've got some shot at rebuilding with someone new.
Anthony A Hughes
183 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:43:41
The man is rigid in his team selections and formations. For want of a better phrase shove 4-2-3-1 up your arse.
Rob Marsh
184 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:45:10
This article looks interesting:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/11/23/fears-raised-marco-silvas-future-everton-aftermajority-shareholder/

Tony Hill
185 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:45:34
John @180, well said, mate. I think we all feel that way in grieving where we are. This is our club not theirs.
Mark Guglielmo
186 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:48:05
Rob @168 no argument there. I'm not even advocating for Silva to stay anymore, I just (still) think there are too many problems that won't be solved by replacing one of them (albeit a large one). Though if the next guy will just make the permanent move toward starting the right guys, then I'm all for it. If he'll instill a new formation, and new tactics, I'm all for it. I'm not convinced that guy is out there (today, or tomorrow), but I guess we'll see.

One thing I am concerned about though, is that it seems to me as if Brands still doesn't have that full decision-making authority around who are manager is, that many of us were led to believe he would. It appears as if he's a decision-maker in name alone, when in reality he still needs Daddy's (Moshiri's) approval, and that Kenwright still has influence with Moshiri.

I don't know how to fix things, tbh. But for the love of god please start playing the new/improved guys.

Kevin Prytherch
187 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:48:37
The blame has to land at the feet of the manager.

Sigurdsson is still a good player when played correctly. He is good at pressing and when he gets space between defence and attack. He is poor against teams who defend. He should start next week against Leicester, but shouldn’t be near the team at home to Norwich.

Schneiderlin isn’t a bad player when we know we will be under the cosh. He recycles the ball well and holds a disciplined position making it difficult for teams to dominate attacking down the middle (that doesn’t mean goals don’t come from the middle, just that teams are forced wide more often than not). Against the likes of Liverpool and City he could still have a part to play. At home to Norwich he shouldn’t be anywhere near the team.

Tosun - can’t play as a lone striker. His most impressive performances have been off the bench when we’ve played with at least 2 attackers. At home to Norwich he shouldn’t be anywhere near the team as a lone striker.

Chris Leyland
188 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:49:12
He is 1/10 to be the next manager gone on Betfair. Surely a sign he is done for?
Mike Coulson
189 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:51:20
There is only one manager to fix this mess: Rafa Benitez.

Do you agree?

Forget the history... or we are doomed!!!
Paul A Smith
190 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:55:12
The next manager is going to make us a laughing stock even moreso isn't it?

Look at the names, Hughes Howe Moyes Dyche. Or Benitez telling us no. Only relegation could be a worse feeling than hearing these names mentioned.

Brands may have some Dutch Maestro lined up?
With no goalscorer, the new man has it as tough as anyone.

Mark Guglielmo
191 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:55:21
Colin @171 I'm sorry mate, but "Let’s get someone who understands the football culture here and who can express themselves in clear, precise English. We’ve gone from the bard of San Sebastián to the wooden tulip to the captain of the Lusitania."

is disgustingly xenophobic. How many great English managers are currently doing great things in global football. I'd say I'll wait but I'll never get an answer.

Let's see...
Poch - Argentinian
Mourinho - Portuguese
Klopp - German
Guardiola - Spanish
Simeone - Argentinian
Allegri - Italian
Emery - Spanish
Sarri - Italian
Tuchel - German
Favre - French
Conte - Italian
Benitez - Spanish

I won't go any further. But for all the talk about "big aspirations," insisting on "someone who can express themselves in clear, precise English" and/or "who understands the football culture here" is quite frankly the exact opposite of that. League One teams have English managers. You may not like me for saying this, but I'm not wrong.

Dermot O'Brien
192 Posted 23/11/2019 at 19:58:20
I thought Silva needed some time, but time is up now. Once again when a team is on a bad run along we come to present them with the points.
He needs to go. If the players are shit why does he pick them? If they're not shit but not motivated then he can't motivate them. A player on 50 to 100k is not motivated by his paycheck. They are not fans. We would run through a brick wall for Everton but these guys are, in the main, mercenaries and need to be spurred on.

He needs to go but we need to have a plan and not arse around for a few weeks and end up with gravy tits. Give Unsy a go or get Pochettino. My rage has eased and I've calmed down. But he needs to go.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

193 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:02:17
Do what I'm doing: tune into a good game of footy.

Libertadores final between Flamengo of Brazil and holders River Plate of Argentina about to KO.

Live on BBC 2 I note for UK viewers. Watch out for Gabigol for Flamengo. He himself has declared rather than take up the option Flamengo has to turn his loan from Inter Milan into a permanent deal, he wants to play in Europe.

I doubt if we will see our one time target the 1717-year-old Renier Jesus play today.

Trevor Peers
194 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:02:27
Paul I don't want Everton to get relegated. How dare you say that?!
Rob Marsh
195 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:04:21
Mark # 186

We are seeing this the same way, I'm also concerned Brands has a limited role. I want the next choice of manager to be his alone, Kenwright has had his day, Moshiri choices so far have got us to this situation and little miss Dynamite what the hell does she know about what it takes to put a successful team on the pitch?

I'm in favour of a caretaker until the new year or next summer when there's more choice, he can't be any worse than Silva whoever. Though, I'd have Benitez right now.

Les Moorcroft
196 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:05:21
Just clocked on has he gone yet🙄
Mark Guglielmo
197 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:05:40
Rob, I will gladly co-manage the team with you. But you're buying all the beers from matchdays 1-19; I'll cover 20-38.
Conor McCourt
198 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:06:51
I have no problem of replacing this manager but my worry is that we need real direction from above and if Marco is to be sacked we need something with the potential for better.

We need a plan and a vision and those calling for Dyche just reminds me of the Allardyce appointment which only set the club back. Benitez also plays yesterday's football and will never be accepted by the fans. Howe is similar to Marco and Martinez.

I personally think we should take a punt on Arteta, someone who knows the fans, knows the club, who has been working with a serial winner and who will want to play progressive attacking football. Yes he is a gamble but Chelsea haven't done too badly with theirs.

Colin Glassar
199 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:11:29
Mark, 100% mistaken. Nothing xenophobic about it. The man speaks gobbledygook. Unai Emery is the same. If you can’t get your ideas across then either learn the language or get a sodding interpreter!

I’ve lived a large part of my life in a non-English speaking country. My wife and children all had to learn English here in the UK. He’s a multimillionaire who can at least try and make himself understood. Pochettino did it, so did Jose and Benitez amongst others.

We’ve tried finding the “next” Mourinho and it hasn’t worked out, has it? In light of this, I’d go for Benitez. He understands the game here and his English is miles better than this fellas.

Mark Guglielmo
200 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:12:50
Ok Colin, fair play, thanks for your clarification (it didn't come across that way, initially).

If only Benitez would go for us.

I'm of the taking a punt on Arteta camp, meself.

Christy Ring
201 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:14:09
Would love to see Pochettino, but I’d be shocked if we had any chance, he’s thinking bigger, Bayern/Real/Utd. If Hughes and Moyes are favourites, we’re going backwards, and Kenwright has to be pulling the strings, which is unbelievable. If no Poch, I’d love to see Arteta, who has worked under Pep and Wenger, and Cahill, his assistant.
Paul A Smith
202 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:15:53
I don't remember saying you did Trevor.

Mark, Brands does deserve some stick. He hasn't found the striker we desperately need and made it clear we work with Calvert Lewin who has played good about twice of starting games.

We lost Zouma, a major player in our best form, who replaced him, nobody.
2 players to replace Gana
Delph and Gbamin. An aged crock and although he has been unlucky with Gbamin, he is a 24 year old no other side chased and doesn't speak the language. Not ideal.

How do you replace a 29 year old midfielder worth 30 million with a 24 year old worth less? In this day and age. That has to be one of the most hopeful ideas a director of football could come up with.

I am not saying Gbamin won't turn out useful either but you are talking a long time before he is Gana's level consistantly.

John Keating
203 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:19:26
Does it really matter who replaces this fraud?
That bloody meerkat would do a better job
Forget this season just get Insy to see the season out and start afresh - again- close season

The priority must be to get rid of the fraud and get us stabilised. If not????

John Reynolds
204 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:20:58
I really want/wanted Marco to succeed. At worst I hoped he’d get until the Christmas fixtures were complete. However, leaving Iwobi out today was baffling, playing Tosun inexplicable. How a guy they were trying to manage out of the club a few months ago, who has shown himself to be significantly below Premier League standard, who doesn’t suit the pressing game we (apparently) favour suddenly becomes first-choice striker ahead of DCL or Richarlison is beyond me. Don’t get me started on Schneiderlin, despite the injuries.

Tonight, if Marco is sacked I’ll accept it with a tinge of sadness, as long as his replacement is Poch, Rafa, or even someone like Nagelsmann or Rangnick. Moyes would be just about tolerable but, god forbid, if Mark Hughes rocks back up to Goodison I’ll be taking a sabbatical. Picked a good day to book flights for the Leicester Carabao Cup game

Mark Guglielmo
205 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:26:43
Paul @202, I can't argue with not replacing a CB; though I've heard so many rumors as to why, I'm not sure where the blame lies. Some say it's Brands fault, some say Silva was so certain that we could get Zouma back that we waited until far too late in the window (also, Arsenal signing David Luiz out of Chelsea's backfield surely didn't help our cause). In a silver lining, I credit Brands for not forking over £50m for a United cast-off like Rojo.

I won't buy into the 'proven striker' bit though. Brands stuck to his vision (which minus Delph) is to stick to players 25-under (I guess Gomes is 26 but he was just coming back to us post-loan). And I can't think of a single one that would have been worth the money/or wanted to come here.

Regarding the Gana/Gbamin situation, I think you answered your own question; 5 years younger, £5m less. That actually makes sense. The fact that our medical staff & Silva botched him actually contributing can't be fairly laid at Brands' feet.

The other factor is that we have so much damned dead weight on the books re: wages. We can't just keep adding to that weekly tally regardless of what purchase prices we're getting (or can afford). It doesn't help that all the expensive guys we have are holdovers that I highlighted above. Made worse so by the fact that they're all 3 years older now and out of form. Meaning, who the F wants them or would even consider paying for them?

Ugh, we're in a right pickle.

Joe McMahon
206 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:27:07
Chris Green @45, i'm with you all the way there. It's the same tripe or shit (whichever phrase anyone prefers) over many years of decay both on and off the field.

This used to be a giant of a club, and it will be 25 years since a trophy this season, and no champions league football ever since it's inception back in 1992. Everton are slowly killing my interest, and the "biggest Evertonian in the World" has let Everton fall so far behind they are now an irrelevant club. Kings Dock was the biggest let down in our history, we could have been in it for the past 15 years now.

Too many high fives and jolly japes at Finch Farm and the same tired old Everton Boys club faces. Sick of them and sick of it.

To quote a song by the punk band The Damned, "Sick of Being Sick"

Rob Young
207 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:27:31
What is Mark Hughes been doing anyway, who did he last manage??
Denis Richardson
208 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:30:23
Cannot believe they held a board meeting and decided to KEEP HIM!

Jeez. How bad must you be to get sacked?? Lost more than half our games this season having only played one top team and already been beaten by all three promoted sides!

Truly beggars belief. The club is run by complete muppets.

Len Hawkins
209 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:31:41
Dennis #133

I'm glad someone else thinks that clown Kenwright having anything to do with this club is one of the main problems, what has Kenwright achieved as Everton Chairman er um ah no er absolutely F' ALL. The training ground is packed with "coaches" who couldn't get a job anywhere else but they played for Everton what did they win by the way. The sooner Kenwright is booted out of the door the better or the next manager will be one of his teary eyed favourites.

The club is full of failure there is no one with any pedigree of winning and Kenwright after making a fortune out of the club still has a say in this failure.

Colin Glassar
210 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:43:53
Mark, admittedly my initial post probably came across as being a bit OTT. I’m just sick and tired of us trying to find the next messiah.

I’d quite happily welcome a Pochettino or a Benitez to the club. Both have shown they understand the game, and fans, here. Something Marco has struggled with - imo.

Mark Guglielmo
211 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:46:49
Understandable, Colin, we all are.

Whoever's next better have some pretty confident designs on turning this thing around because it's taking on water from quite a few holes.

Jerome Shields
212 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:48:52
Unfortunately the situation will not be sorted by just replacing Silva, which will be a tall order anyway.

Silva probably realises now that this home match against Norwich was a must win game. He also realises that Norwich like every team Everton p!ayed this season from the lower third of the League would shut up shop, pressurise Evertons midfield by playing a high defensive line, having gained confidence, in Norwich case earlier than the second half, would translate this into support for their attack. Norwich s tactical implement was flawless. He also would realises that Norwich would be practising this over the International break and would be doing extra training with two weeks free of fixtures. Not all their squad was available to play, but most players can pick up on simple tactics.

TACTICS WHICH WHERE ENTIRELY PREDICTABLE, PRIOR TO THIS GAME.


Evertons preparation should have been making sure Everton where a highly motivated and fit team, who would play, relentlessly, with high intensity and high press to break Norwich down. This would be achieved by the defence pushing up supporting midfield, good movement and quick passing in the final third through the centre and wings and a high press keeping Norwich pinned back. Norwich would have folded under such pressure. Everton have the squad and p!ayers capable of doing this.

What we got from Everton was a badly prepared squad with little motivation and questionable fitness. A static midfield, little pass completion in the final s third, a high press that was non existent, passing sideways, which partly could be down to bizarre selection of a underperforming Sigurdsson, Tosun a carthorse who couldn't hit a barn door and a jetlagged Richarlson, dazed, but still on his feet.

FINCH FARM is a holiday camp during International breaks and predictably Everton gave a typical post international break performance, as they have done for years.

The fact is Silva knew this was a must win game, but the rest of Everton could not be arsed.

Silva will get the blame, but he is only the tip of the iceberg. Another Manager won't make much difference unless there is a radical change in the Culture of Everton FC, and the perpetrators of the present Culture are roaded.

Moshiri now needs a miracle or Pouchettino, which would be a miracle anyway.

The three year plan is now on its last legs.

BUT. . . . . . . .

Pouchettino now knows that you can't win anything with a board and internal management who are only capable of lower half Premier Team levels. All of us like him have learnt this the hard way.

Conor McCourt
213 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:51:39
Mark I can't believe your comments about Brands selling his best player for an unknown quantity as 'making sense'. Maybe in your world not in mine.

I don't feel tonight is fair to be looking at Brands considering how passive and piss poor we were on that pitch today so tonight should be about the manager and the attitude of many of our players and not Brands.

But we bought five players to the club with only one Iwobi having a positive influence on the squad despite losing two of our best players and some promising youngsters.

Mark Guglielmo
214 Posted 23/11/2019 at 20:57:17
Conor, the way you phrase that is disingenuous. Brands can't be called out for "selling his best player" when said player made it extremely clear he wanted to go, and requested the transfer. It was that, or lose him on a free in the near-term. You could chide him for not trying to get more, but PSG was the one and only club in on this. And as stated, we just have no idea if Gbamin will be a good replacement because we haven't seen him yet. My point about the business aspect is that shaving 5 years off a guy and spending £5m less is a good deal, on the surface, because maybe Gbamin will prove to be great value. We just don't know yet.

The rest, we apparently agree on. What's the point of bringing in new players if the manager won't play them. I know he's hamstrung a bit (a lot?) with the injuries, but something has to change. Although Delph was one of those players; that's a black eye to Brands IMO.

Jer Kiernan
215 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:01:13
What must the players be thinking ????? Seriously we lost the SAME GAME about 7 times this season, burnley,sheff utd,b/mouth, villa now norwich, ,,to name a few

His tactics clearly do not work and yet he comes out with some BS excuse after each game, then analysis and "plans" the next few weeks in preparation then what ??
Same shape same tactics, same results, rinse and repeat .

I said recently on TW Forum, I woud accept bein beaten by Southampton and even Norwich today if it got this clown launched ,I was roundly crucified for it on TW, ,well sorry but I am feeling Vindicated tonite and you better hope somebody on the boards has the same sentiments VERY soon or we are the next Leeds Utd

By the way anybody on Merseyside tonite on their way home if they spot Evertons no1 fan crossing the street, be very careful not to hit the accelerator instead of the brakes !! it can happen easliy enough

Chance would be a fine thing

Andy Crooks
216 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:05:47
Christy, I agree. Something new and fresh. Please not Hughes, please, God, not Moyes. But, anyone but Silva. No one could surpass Martinez in being the worst coach in the history of the universe unless they can relegate us. Marco is girthing his loins for this. He will relegate us. He oozes it.
Paul A Smith
217 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:10:21
Mark my point on Gbamin is he never replaced Gana injured or not. He is purely defensive and his own agent wants him to be a Centre Back but nothing against Gbamin, I will back him until it proves useless.

The point is if you want to be a top club you behave like one, you don't buy Iwobi Delph and Gbamin when you are trying to shift the wage bill when surely its better to spend a bit more on real quality?
All three combined have offered less than Gana so far and its shocking.

Injuries are obviously taken into account but isn't it vital to have quality when the chips are down?

Kenwright was a joke era but we had Arteta, Yakubu, Pienaar,Fellaini, Lukaku etc in his tenure. What on earth has Moshiri's era brought quality wise?

All of those players also had some steel when it mattered most, now we are watching neat wimps with no desire to win. There is only Richarlison that looks hungry.

Fraser Auld
218 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:16:05
Haven’t read all of the comments so sorry if repeating but beyond annoying to hear silva complaining after the game that we were too slow and lacked mobility!! You’re playing Tosun, Siggy and Schneiderlin, what did you expect??
Conor McCourt
219 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:18:49
Mark he had a contract until 2022 and we got 30 million for statistically the best holding midfielder in the prem last season. This is just crazy business whether he wanted to leave or not.

Secondly if he must go you do what the scum did when they sold Coutinho you get the best price and you make the squad better. Brands failed to do this.

Conor McCourt
220 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:36:25
Andy Crooks 216-under Martinez we finished with our best points total in nearly 30 years, we got the furthest in Europe in the same time frame and two cup semi finals in his three year spell.

Yes we had two terrible league campaigns under his stewardship and he rightfully lost his job but in comparison to the last few managers he didn't have the biggest kitty and he always gave youth a chance.

I think calling him the worst manager in the universe is a pretty daft thing to say considering he has just led Belgium to third in the World Cup and one of the most impressive European qualifying campaigns in its history.

Keith Gleave
221 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:36:37
What will it take for this imposter to be sacked. I said this should have happened in the previous international break. If he has not gone this weekend then I give up. We need a proven manager who can sort this shit show out.
Paul Kelly
222 Posted 23/11/2019 at 21:45:57
Enough is enough, time for a clear out. Before the mighty Norwich scored, they could of already been ahead. Silva is a shit manager, did anyone expect anything else? Small periods of success in the PL, rescued Hull then got them relegated from a winning position, had ten or so good games with Watford then was shite, we've been shite for the most part, a good run towards the end of last season.

Silva is a fucking buffoon, I'd like to say; 'flavour of the month signing', but he was shit before.

What's with our recruitment? if you want a winner in a foreign league, with a shit PL record, why not Steve McLaren? Exactly. I've answered that one for everyone.

Moshiri must have some bad advisors, or is a complete idiot if he's chosen the last few managers. Someone must still have a say hey, unfortunately it's not us fans.

Holland's pies forever!!!!!

Andy Kay
223 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:01:55
Massive decision time for Everton. Think back to last May watching Spurs coming from behind against a extremely good Ajax side to reaching the Champions League final, after earlier beating Man. City along the way, if anyone told you their Manager would be available in November after we've just lost again at home to Norwich, what would every Evertonian say? A Manager with Premier League and Champions league experience whos has beaten Real Madrid and Inter Milan, Dortmund ect is currently out of work. We' ve lost to Villa Norwich and Sheffield United Bournmouth Burnley and Brighton already this season. No brainer for me. Forget the dinasaurs like Moyes, Hughes, Pardew. Get Pocchetino in asap while we have the chance.
Tony Twist
224 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:03:26
Lets face it, Silva will be gone whether it is now (I doubt it as Everton's timing is always pathetic) or before the new year as we have four games coming up that we will probably lose which will just show the board up as a group of clueless, out of touch charlatans and force their hand. Any delay now surely will be a Brands decision. These are truly worrying times.
Chris Jenkins
225 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:03:29
I have been consistent in warning that the situation will become more and more critical the longer Silva is retained as manager. The immediate priority now has to be avoiding relegation, talk of a new ground and competing in Europe must be shelved in the interim. Watching the shambles this afternoon convinced me that Silva's position is totally untenable.

Hopefully there will be an announcement about Silva's position early next week. With the club in its present position, dangerously close to the relegation places, the recruitment of a top-quality replacement may be more problematic than is generally anticipated, particularly as some of the potential candidates may be unwilling to work with Brands.

Action is required by the Board as a matter of urgency – procrastination is the thief of time. Since 1963, I've only ever watched football at Goodison in the top flight and I want that to continue. No-one wants a return to the grim years of the early 1950s.

Steve Carter
226 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:08:52
Well, Oddschecker has Moyes at 2.5 as our next permanent manager, and Danny Cadamarteri at 250. I might have a punt on the latter at those odds.
Brian Wilkinson
227 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:09:12
I still say we are holding out for the Chinese season to finish on 30 November, then make a move for Benitez.

For the time being, we need to have a big cleanout from within the backroom staff, Ferguson is stealing a living and cannot believe some were saying, give him the caretakers job, apart from us Evertonians I can only come up with Tim Cahill who was feeling the same pain and anger, I would certainly have Cahill instead of Ferguson on the sidelines.

So what now? It does not look like we are going to take any action... so, for now, we are left with Silva.

Worrying times ahead.

Jerome Shields
228 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:12:36
I think Brands is capable and the players brought in are capable, but the problem is that Everton's Cu!ture will reduce everything to the lowest common denominator, as regards performance.

We all have previously experienced the same performance as we got today, with the same below power performance, lack of motivation and lack of fight, often in the three-game pattern, but now in the two-game pattern and always after a International Break. . .

The only difference is a different Manager, different Owner, but with the usual suspects in the background.

Andy Crooks
229 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:20:12
Conor, Martinez led the best team in the world to third place. He relegated Wigan, through arrogance and stubbornness and then walked away, sadly, to us.

He took a solid Moyes defence and added tippy-tappy to it. He presided over some of the worst performances I have ever seen as an Evertonian, the Southampton loss was especially abject.

He was arrogant, vain, bewildered and took us to the cleaners after the insane deal he got from the cretinous luvvy.

Think back to the last days of his reign. He was thoroughly useless. An embarrassment.

Paul Tran
230 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:24:16
Andy, were you not around when Walker was in charge? He's the only manager I thought was going to take us down.
Ken Kneale
231 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:31:32
Andy - not only but also - the parallels with Silva are horribly obvious, such as what on earth was on their CV that warranted appointment in the first place?

Acomplete inability to self reflect and change tactics... the same inane drivel at press conferences... and the comfort blanket to know they will walk away with more money than most of us could ever comprehend — for complete failure!

Mark Guglielmo
232 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:32:54
Latest odds for managers

Arsenal:
Pochettino 6/4

West Ham:
Benitez 6/4

Everton:
Moyes 1/2

If that don't say it all...

Mike Oates
233 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:34:18
Whilst the manager will carry the can and get the boot, bear a thought of whoever gets it next has got to work with.

Defensively, we have two right-backs who are way past it in Coleman and Sibide, three centre-halves who are a total disaster waiting to happen, whoever you pair who with whom, from Keane, Mina, Holgate – they just can't communicate together, don't mark properly, and invariably donate a goal or two away most games.

We have the slowest midfield in the Premier League with Davies, Schneiderlin, and Sigurdsson – throw in Delph and you've got the most non-creative group as well.

Forward-wise, we can pick from any of Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, Walcott, Bernard and know we'll be lucky to get at most 3-5 goals from any of them in the season.

It leaves the new manager with Pickford, Digne, Iwobi, Richarlison and maybe Bernard. We haven't got a clue whether £27M Mosie Kean has got what it takes, but the glimpses we've had don't offer any positive signs to date. There is no way Guardiola or Klopp or an available Pochettino can do anything with the bunch we've got now.

A poor recruitment strategy, a poor academy process, and poor coaching has left us with at best a bottom 5 Premier League squad and, god forbid, a Championship destined team, which no decent manager will want to come and manage now.

Tom Bowers
234 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:35:12
Barring a miracle, Everton will get very little in the next 5/6 games if Silva stays. Let's face it, it's not that they have been so ineffective in many games this season but that those games have been against the so-called ''lesser'' sides, apart from Man City.

That fact in itself tells you how bad Silva's record is and what could happen by Xmas. He has no ability to inspire confidence as far as I can see and his interviews on TV seem to suggest he does not have the right personality no drive to turn this around.

Mark Wilson
235 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:41:09
Even by the vastly reduced standards we live with now, this was painfully poor. The players have to take a share of the crap but, truth is we are looking at a failing manager, clinging on to a job he's long since stopped deserving. The setup against the bottom team was absurdly negative, tentative, weak and leaderless.

Iwobi had to start and, given the muttering all week, why not give Kean a chance? Baningime over Schneiderlin would have been bold I suppose, but why not go for the mobile over the slow rash and generally ineffective?

It's the manager, not the players. Yep, we are very short in two key positions of centre back and centre forward. And like Lukaku, Gana was never going to replaced immediately after he left, we needed to sell on terms to suit us, not the players, we are a soft touch. It's had a devastating impact on the team.

Sack him now, how can the board risk our future in this league? We are desperately poor. Pochettino? Seems like a class act, may not have won anything. But four years of Champions League despite playing at Wembley and with relatively little squad strengthening in last two years. Yet somehow he feels like a step up from Silva but with much the same style? It's Rafa every time for me, don't care about his history, but why would he give up the riches and easy life in China for a struggle at Goodison?

Just when you think it couldn't get any harder being tied to this club, it does.

Winning is the only progress.

Gerry Ring
236 Posted 23/11/2019 at 22:56:14
Absolutely abysmal. I'm not interested in hearing Steve Ferns's excuse for Silva this time but it's a mystery to me as to how we expected a “Mickey Mouse” manager like Silva to lead us to glory. Totally inexcusable!!!
Brian Porter
237 Posted 23/11/2019 at 23:49:50
Farhad Moshiri, please do the right thing and get rid of the worst appointment of your tenure at Everton FC.
Marco Silva is not, never has been, and never will be, a Premier League manager.

He looks like a little boy lost on the touchAfter line, bereft of ideas and bereft of hope. He has zero motivational skills and his tactical nous and player selection abilities are such that we have turned into the laughing stock of the Premier League.

After 60 years of supporting the club I love, I am now on the verge of turning my back on the club, and to this effect, tonight I sat here with a pair of strong scissors and cut my Everton replica shirt into little pieces and threw it in the bin.

Doesn't that tell you something?

Jay Harris
238 Posted 23/11/2019 at 23:53:46
Totally agree Len.

Never mind lack of leaders on the pitch.

We have no leaders in the boardroom.

John moores must be turning in his grave for what Kenwright has turned us into.

Joe McMahon
239 Posted 23/11/2019 at 23:56:57
Mark @232 its crazy that Gooners would welcome an ex Spurs manager, but many Evertonians wouldn't want Benitez. If it's because years ago he called us a small club, its pathetic. I wouldn't mind but Rafa was correct. Everton haven't been a force for over 30 years.
John Pierce
240 Posted 23/11/2019 at 23:56:59
To leap straight to an interim should they throw Silva out would be crazy. Moyes will take the job regardless so make him wait a week, take beat and at least take a look around the little bubble we live in.

Mark Guglielmo
241 Posted 24/11/2019 at 00:28:29
Joe @239 when you're right, you're right. The managers couldn't care less though, but at least Arsenal FanTV on YouTube would be even funnier.
Christy Ring
242 Posted 24/11/2019 at 00:33:28
How can the board back Silva, has to go, and tell Bill to F.off, Moyes is history, and Hughes, abysmal
Ed Prytherch
243 Posted 24/11/2019 at 00:42:01
I'm an old fart and not too good with modern communications and I want to know how I can get an automatic text or email when Silva is fired.
Derek Cowell
244 Posted 24/11/2019 at 00:54:46
13 games gone, 14 points! Of the 25 remaining games 12 are v. RS, Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, City and Leicester! We wont win many, if any, of these games on current form. We therefore have the other 13 games to avoid relegation against teams who will be showing a lot more fighting spirit than we seem capable of. Id love to be optimistic but we are dross!!
John Pierce
245 Posted 24/11/2019 at 01:01:59
Far too much of an idealist is Marco. Great on the training field setting players up for the perfect game. A coach, like McClaren.

He simply isn’t a manager, the nuance to understand who needs dropping & what message to send out, how to change it. Stopping defeats turning into slumps and sustaining good runs.

When circumstances aren’t perfect, sadly every game, unless we play West ham, his team has no idea how to change the game, no practiced back up plans for red cards, etc.

I’ve read repeatedly that Portuguese coaches commonly don’t practice or design attacking plays. They structure their defence and midfield but leave the flair players to produce in the final third, off the cuff. I’m not sure of the providence of this, but I will say that I cannot tell you what a ‘Silva’s team goal’ looks like. The lack of attacking patterns, seem to back up the hypothesis above.
You need a framework to build variations from especially in attack.

Anyway all this is moot. It’s been over for weeks, letting him stay might see it completely unravel.

I hope the board do the right thing.

Ed Prytherch
246 Posted 24/11/2019 at 01:03:10
A few people think that Duncan Ferguson has significant responsibility for this mess but I don't know why. Out of four managers he has worked for only Big Sam ever talked to him during the game. But I want to know what the fuck Louis Boa Morte is doing in a position of responsibility at Everton. How can any Evertonian relate to that arse hole?

We need a coaching staff who have Everton blood running through their veins. These mercenaries don't give a shit about our club

Christy Ring
247 Posted 24/11/2019 at 01:04:17
He's still here, unbelievable, and embarrassing..
Jamie Crowley
248 Posted 24/11/2019 at 01:20:01
Any other Club in your country - any one of them - wouldn't stand for this and would make a managerial change.

Ownership is the key to success. Successful teams are owned by successful, intelligent, competent owners.

This is a massive black mark for Moshri, for me. He clearly will back the team financially, but we need someone with some balls to lead and make the necessary change.

As Christy says, it really is a bit embarrassing. Why does this Club continually accept mediocrity? Why will no one make the big decisions? Name me one big team with aspirations that wouldn't make a move at this point?!

Bill Gall
250 Posted 24/11/2019 at 02:26:51
I am afraid that there will be no change while Everton are getting over 36,000 paying supporters at Goodison Park. It is not the players, it is not the manager and it is definitely not the board that has kept this club in and around the top half of the premier and the previous first division it is the expectations of its loyal fan base.

The supporters of Everton F.C. have stood by this club home and away and since MrMoshiri arrived with a sense of expectations that the club was on its way to better times. This promise of a better future has slowly been dashed by poor hiring of managers who show promise and then fade when faced with the reality of the competitiveness of the premier.

And now it seems this owner and board simply do not realize the damage that is being done by another incompetent manager and his staff to Everton F.C. by their head in the sand reactions to the results and position the club is in'

As anyone who watched this game can see the team that played today had no fight in them, were devoid of how to handle the tactics of the bottom of the league team and in simple terms, once more let down their loyal supporters. But the most frightening thing that came from today was the attitude of the board that things will get better. They may be rite in this attitude because it couldn't get any worse.
Unless they prove they have ambitions and change this manager who will not change his style, tactics and team selection as he is aware of the fact that he has the backing of the owner, they will gradually, and that was demonstrated at the end of today's game' start to loose the lifeblood of the club,and that is the SUPPORTERS who a large majority of them supported this club long before Moshiri and his board took over.

It really sickens me to hear and read the hurt of fellow supporters, and even that I no longer live in England, I still feel the pain in the decline of a club that I have supported since 1955/56.

Don Alexander
251 Posted 24/11/2019 at 02:33:21
I'm glad, regrettably (because of the horrible situation of our club), that more and more people on this and other threads are finally identifying the crucifyingly inadequacy of Kenwright.

Kenwright waited decades to find a charley like Moshiri whilst we had to bumble along hoping to be fourth, fourth JEEZ (achieved only once in 20 years, leading immediately to Europe-wide exposure as a joke club based on results, and that was 15 years ago). Since then an occasional dalliance in the piss-poor (in every way) Europa League has to some of us papered over the chasms when it comes to credibility as a trophy winning club.

Eventually Kenwright found his charley and Moshiri, who from what's reported considers himself a fine judge of character, and, we're told, is always accommodating of total subservience from everyone else at the club he currently owns, has now patently failed in his own much publicised three year project as announced when he took over, relying, he said, on the input of Kenwright.

Does it need Poirot to detect who is poison at our club, with his "jobs for the (fucking useless) boys" mentality?

I despair.

Alan J Thompson
254 Posted 24/11/2019 at 05:57:19
I'm a little worried about some remarks on here like Brands alone should appoint the next Manager. He may have a word beforehand with Ryazantsev (Moshiri's man) to gain an idea of support he may have for various options but it must still be approved by the Owner and the majority at a full Board meeting, anything else would surely confirm Everton as a cowboy outfit.

Then somebody defended Schneiderlin by saying he holds his position and forces the opposition out wide and this while our fullbacks are stuck up the other end of the pitch or trying to get back.

I would hope that somebody has at least sounded out Pochettino but whether it's him or somebody else the right KPI's have to be written in to the contract.

For me Moyes, Hughes and Benitez are no, no and no! And while we are at it, can Everton stop Koeman from taking up a position with Real or Barca while we are still paying him in order to prevent something similar to his half price appointment with the Dutch FA, or would we see that as cutting your nose to spite your face?

Tony Everan
255 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:59:39
Michael. ''Is this the final straw?''

I am surprised you have to ask the question. He should have been sacked after the Burnley game after 4 straight losses, it was only the spineless nature of the board that gave him a stay of execution.

Yesterday was not an isolated event. Our problems are systemic, reoccurring and worse still expected.

The fans have had enough, proved almost unanimously in the poll and if the board haven't yet had enough then their standards are scraping the barrel.

It's over.

James Newcombe
256 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:38:26
Why do all of our managers end up the same? Repeating the same team selection, the same tactics, not reacting to, or even seeing, problems evident to practically everyone else in the stadium.
Sean Kelly
257 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:06:11
A sign of a good club management is when they have a plan A B OR C. Look at Spurs. Within 24 hours Poch gone and replaced by Maureen. Everton give Silva more time. For What? He's had plenty already. Pick up the phone Moshiri and ring Benitez or Pock.
DO NOT RING FOR MOYES OR THE ZOMBIE HUGHES.

JUST ACT NOW!

Bill Watson
258 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:47:29
Yesterday wasn't just a one off horror performance but more the norm for this completely clueless manager.
No other club would tolerate this abysmal dross, week after week, so why isn't the board taking decisive action?
It was clear, during the two month slump last season, that Silva was out of his depth and he should have been dismissed then.
It's now reached the stage where almost anyone would be a better option.
The inaction of our board is bewildering and, frankly, embarrassing. Do they find these repeatedly abysmal performances acceptable? Their refusal to take action suggests they do.
Conor McCourt
259 Posted 23/11/2019 at 10:56:25
Andy Crooks 229- You argue that under Martinez we played awful football, had terrible performances, was arrogant and fleeced the club. Many Evertonians won't debate with you on most of your points.

But you singled Martinez out as our worst ever manager and when I presented how silly that statement was you have completely failed to present any case for your assertion instead drawing on his failings which could equally if not more so be attributed to any of the last three incumbents.

Have you been in a coma for the last four seasons?

Under Koeman we laboured to 7th in his first season before having a complete nightmare second season where we were embarrassed in Europe and were flirting in the relegation position when he was fired. The only positives you could argue from his reign was the city game and a decent signing in Pickford. We are still paying for the dross he and Walsh brought to the club in a disastrous period for the club.

Under big Sam we cannot be over critical as he did what was asked of him despite it being some of the worst performances we have seen. But he too brought two ridiculous signings to the club and the only positive you could argue was that he kept us up which for me was never in doubt regardless.

Under Marco we played some decent stuff in the spring last year and showed an ability to improve players but the rest of his tenure has been pretty similar to Koemans with nothing to really shout about...a mediocre first campaign followed by a disastrous second so far.

To answer your question I certainly seen how dreadful we were at times under Martinez especially that third season when we were absolutely abject and woeful. But I also remember one of the best seasons of football I can remember as an Evertonians under his stewardship. In all three seasons we had something to play for after Xmas despite some awful times in his reign.

That is why I'm taking umbrage with your position because in the last four seasons we have had nothing to shout about at all despite severe investment which Martinez didn't have, we have neglected our youth and even your reasoning to why Martinez was the worst is littered with irony. Every year come February we could hibernate if we want as there is nothing much to play for.

Dale Rose
261 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:03:25
The game yesterday was an utter shambles. I had a feeling it wasn't going to go our way. I just didn't anticipate how badly it was going to turn out.

So where do we go from here ?. The way I see it, is that we have a good team. We wont be in a relegation battle, that's not going to happen, and we will finish top half.

What we have needed for a couple of years is an out and out predatory striker. Lukaku did a good job, we sold him and didn't replace him. That was an unforgivable error. It is that which has cost us. We then sold Barkley for pennies, another error. We then bought a raft of players who were not up to Championship standard and sold and loaned them out after selling Gueye. Error number 3. This board are clueless, their football model is based on Roy of the Rovers, (for the younger generation google it). Sadly this is the Premiership, and not a comic. A totally unforgiving league. I'm not totally convinced that all of this is Silvas fault. I don't think he is strong enough to fight his corner with the board, he has also come to a massive club, with very high expectations, that it is doubtful he will fulfill. The argument has been put forward that to sack him would make us look foolish, well I don't think there is much that would make us look more foolish than we are already.

Give Silva until Christmas, get a striker with a proven record in as soon as. Things may well settle down and give the board of Melchester Rovers time to come up with a plan B. Because at the present we haven't got plan A.

Moyes and Hughes, nay, nay and thrice nay.

Paul Smith
262 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:13:38
Don't worry Conor we will have our Prem survival to play for this coming February.
Sean Kelly
263 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:18:04
Southgate anyone? No really my preference but if spurs were willing they must see something in him.
I’ll get me coat.
Michael Low
264 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:27:03
If we are resigned to defeat for the next four games I’m wondering if bringing in a new manager now would be just throwing him into the lions den? Anyone who is at the helm for these next games will surely get their socks blown off. Would it be fair to do that? The alternative of keeping Silva is also just as daunting. What a dilemma!
Colin Malone
265 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:48:04
I would love to see Tim Cahill at the club, while he's advancing in he's coaching badge, cannot be any worse than Boa Morte. A blue blooded Evertonian with passion.

Meanwhile the only coach who can get us out of this shit is Glenn Hoddle.
Paul Tran
266 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:01:20
It bring the new man in as soon as possible. The right new man will lift the club and players, possibly getting a surprise result or two. If he loses the opening games, I think he'd get a free pass.

Whatever is happening, the club needs to go public and tell us. If they're sticking by Silva, they should say so and give the reasons for doing it.
I suspect they're chatting with candidates.

Robert Williams
267 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:46:20
After all the preamble and build up to the coming and eventually arrival of Marco Silva to the thousand upon thousands of sound-bites in praise of his tactics, his coaching skills, his successes (in Portugal) and the reasons upon reasons why he should not face the chop - we now find that the main defendant has taken a vow of Omertà.

Defending the indefensible appears to have finally sunk in. Our self-styled Fidei Defensor appears to have lost faith - stating that 'he can't be arsed' (SF31).

Well just for the record, many of could not be arsed with the choice of Everton Manager in the first place, many could not be arsed with his Zonal marking, many of us could not be arsed with his team selections, tactics and inability to manage or motivate his team or game. Many are not arsed to fork out to see the tripe that is on display at Goodison.

I can't be arsed to renew my season ticket and IF Moyes rises from the ashes like some all singing all dancing Pheonix I shall not be arsed to go the game.

Rob Marsh
268 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:48:52
Mike Oates # 233

On reading your post the first time I felt it was overly pessimistic, but I have to admit there's something uncomfortably right about it.

Our defence has my heart beating 40 beats faster everytime it touches the ball, we are soooo slooooow in midfield and the forwards when they do get service, just don't look the part.

Christy Ring
269 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:00:50
What are the board, or should I say Moshiri, with Kenwright in his ear waiting for? Nothing's going to change under Silva, his team selection, tactics, and formation will still be the same. Can we get any lower than Norwich out playing us at home. When you see Spurs sacking the high profile Pochettino, and we're still dithering over Silva, especially with our upcoming fixtures, and to be linked with hasbeens, Kenwright's influence, we're a laughing stock.
Mark Guglielmo
270 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:06:49
Ed @246 it's a nice sentiment and all, but how many managers with "Everton running through their blood" are successful, modern managers? You can check the 20 managers from the top 4 teams (CL-qualifying) in the 5 major leagues, and none of them were products of the clubs they maybe played for (let alone have come from Everton). My point is that the best managers in the world haven't had anything to do with Everton. So I guess you have to decide which is more important, taking the next step (5 steps?) as a club, or "keeping things in-house?"

That said, would you roll the dice on someone unproven, but with strong ties to EFC? Aka Arteta?

Christy Ring
271 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:22:42
Mark@270 being linked with two hasbeens, Moyes and Hughes, who were sacked at Sunderland and Stoke, really is the bottom of the barrel. I know Arteta is a former blue, but after working under Pep and Wenger, he could be a revelation.
Mark Guglielmo
272 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:26:08
Christy, I've said several times previously that Arteta is my personal choice, but that said, I am acutely aware that he'd ba a "high risk, potential high reward" appointment. And because of that, he's probably not a smart mid-season choice. He'd need an entire summer, transfer window, and training camp to begin to acclimatize and instill his ideas, IMO. I do like him though.
Christy Ring
273 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:37:48
Mark, looking at hi demeanour at City, he'd certainly take no shit, especially if he had his mate Cahill beside him.
Peter Jansson
274 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:37:47
Silva has to go. He does not know what he is doing and I believe the people around him are not good enough, like Boa Morte and Duncan Ferguson.

I don't believe our players are so bad, but I belive they look bad because they are under a clueless manager. Every second game it looks like they have never played together. We make more progress playing backyard football here in Norway compared to Everton under Silva. The players go backwards, not forward.

Silva seems not to be able to learn from mistakes made or bad strategies. As he continues to do the same thing over and over.

For example.
1. He picks the same formation ever time. That is too easy for the opponents to deal with. What is even worse is that the players do not play well in this formation. But, Silva seen to not care, as he continue to do the same thing over an over again. Just like Martinez did.

2. Digne make long throws every game even though it does not work. Why is this? Is Silva blind? Can anyone tell him to stop? Why does Silva not change this when it clealy does not work?

3. We cannot defend the back post on corners or free kicks.

4. He plays Schniderlin home at Norwich? What the f* is that. Why do we play a finished player all the time and we have the best 19 year old prospect in Europe on the bench?

5. Why the f* did why buy Moise Kean and put him on the bench? We better continue with proven the goalscorers Calvert Lewin and Tosun. What the f* is this all about? Let the one with future potential play for f*k sake.

6. Same with Lewis Gibson. We might have the worst mix of central defenders in the league and Gibson is not even on the bench? Let the man play for f sake.

7. Why cant we bring in a good central offensive midfielder with a proven record? Why is this. We have been lacking this for a long time. This is a major f*k up of Silva and also the previous managers. Sigurdsson is good but he is too slow. We need more central offensive midfielders.

8. This is for the board. We bring in managers that has been relegated. What is this? Why do we hire managers that has been relegated? What kind of idiotic strategy is this? We need managers that are consistantly doing a good job.

9. We bring in players that are on the way down instead of on the way up. With some exeptions like Moise Kean. He was at least on the way up, then he came to Everton what a f*in joke. We have to stop buying leftovers from Man U, Arsenal, Man C etc. That is not good strategy.. period!

The list of problems our club has is long. I can go on and on.

If we want to get better we need a new good manager. Sorry but the answer is definitely not Mark Hughes, Benitez or David Moyes.

We someone like Erik ten Hag in Ajax or a man like Chris Wildler in Sheffield United. Erik ten Hag will most likely not even think about coming to Everton. Chris Wilder I take any day. He makes gold out of dirt.

Mark Guglielmo
275 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:37:54
Christy, that would be excellent. I was also thinking we could petition, or at worst ask, Derby to see if Rooney would be up for coming back as Arteta's right-hand man.

Seems the perfect mix of strategy, bottle & discipline, but what the hell do I know lol

Peter Jansson
276 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:40:06
By the way Sheffield U are up 2 - 0 over Man U as we speak..
Peter Jansson
277 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:41:31
Arteta might be good but he is a gamble. Pottechino... I don't know. He is better than Silva but does he want to come to Everton?
David Pearl
278 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:55:59
Arteta is probably one of the only managers that could come in and instantly lift spirits. He'd also be the only appointment that would be given time and would have less immediate pressure.

A whole summer or transfer window isn't needed. We have an English international defender on the bench, an Irish captain on the bench... and a few youngsters all comping at the bit to make their mark. He could come in and make a difference and we might have a bit of style about us.

As it stands l just want Silva gone now. He came close to going last night straight after the game. Wtf are they waiting for?

People banging on about us playing 2 def midfielders. Does Silva ask Schneiderlin to play behind Davies instead of beside him? Thats our main problem right there. Secondly Siggy playing close to the striker instead of our wide forwards.


Every single time we have an opportunity to kick on we mess it up. If he hasnt gone by Monday evening I'm afraid he will be given more time. More time to do what? Come up with another strategy perhaps? What a laugh

Peter Jansson
279 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:58:42
#278 yes Silva has to go now. The sooner the better. The longer he stays the more the rot deepens.
Gary Reeves
280 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:04:47
I've never actually seen Arteta get that involved in the action from the sidelines,and I've never heard him interviewed. I don't know his philosophies or his motivations. I've seen him flip charts and get a mouthful from Pep but what makes people think he's the man for the job? ... Just asking.
Mark Guglielmo
281 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:24:53
Gary, speaking only for myself, Arteta clearly played the game - mostly as a midfielder, too; which usually would translate well from a "game vision" perspective - and he played it for years at Everton, so those 2 facts are a plus.

Saying "flip charts and get a mouthful from Pep" is kind of ridiculous. If you simply don't believe the asst. manager position carries any value whatsoever, then ok, but he has spent 3+ years sitting in on meetings, working with global talent across the training grounds, seen game strategy & tactics go from whiteboard to pitch, and simply put, learned from the game's greatest manager both on & off the field. Being around successful people often instills a successful mindset.

He's miles ahead of any of the usual suspects IMO, and worth the gamble. Yes, gamble, because obviously there are no guarantees in life.

Simon Dalzell
282 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:32:39
That Jagielka chap looks better than any of ours. Maybe worth a bid in January ?
Bill Gall
283 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:05:12
See that Man Utd scored 3 goals today 2 by young players just getting playing time.

The comments on getting who will be the next manager if Silva is fired, should not be who but who are we going to criticize when we get someone. I am a fierce critic of this Owner and Board and I am hoping that this time they get it rite, and hire someone with the knowledge of the Premiership and Europe, and all though I don't like the man, of all the names that are being thrown around Benitez is the only one who fits that criteria. Benitez has been thrown in the deep end before, and with his experience has managed ok. His last appointment I believe would have been more successful if he had an owner who gave him funds. Unlike the Newcastle owner, we have an owner who is willing to finance the squad, and I believe this would make a big difference.

We could try a new manager like Arteta but this is a risk, he was a great player and works under one of the top managers,but being an understudy and taking complete control of the playing side of the club is completely different. To start off he will want to stamp his own ideas on the squad and this will need another rebuilding, and it would be unfair to expect him to be successful in his first managerial position in a struggling environment.

Mark Guglielmo
284 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:33:48
All fair points, Bill.

But wouldn't Benitez also want to stamp his own ideas on the squad? I feel like that aspect may be unavoidable no matter who gets the nod.

Ralph Basnett
285 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:56:45
This wasn't an embarrassment, our next 5 or 6 games being live so the whole world can see how shit we are will be an embarrassment!!!!
Allan Board
287 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:01:45
I've been away for the weekend in "that London" so kept away from football. I am not in the slightest bit surprised this lot lost.

Yes, this manager is useless, inept, devoid of football nous and about as charismatic as a plank. But do you know what has really riled me?

It was his little boy lost routine in his after-match interview, as if he does everything perfectly during the week and its the nasty player's who are to blame again. All he wants is his pay off. I am not usually one to be abusive but there are words for people like him, the main one being a coward. We used to have a saying for blokes like Silva: "I hope I don't end up with him next to me in the trenches."

They are always the same, talk big, deliver nothing and go missing when the preverbial hits the fan. These players are being destroyed by terrible mismanagement, disgraceful and insulting attitude toward our young player's and a disgusting mates clique for the older has-beens.

Bring Arteta and Cahill in by all means, but get rid of Kenwright first. He is the fly in the ointment and is the go-to for Moshiri when he needs advice, and we all know how that generally works out.

This mate's rates ethos at Everton has finally got it's deserved, tragic reward. Capitulation on the pitch and devastation for it's amazing, loyal supporters.

I will refrain from using any abusive language as I believe that your deeds answer all critics, something sadly lacking at Everton since the last real gent, Howard Kendall.

I find the current regime not fit for purpose and insulting toward all the Bluenoses out there.

Tony Williams
288 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:17:37
I am not absolving Silva of any blame but we have had two reputedly good managers, rated by all in football: Martinez and Koeman... now Silva. Is there another problem within the club as all has ended in the same scenario, can they all be that bad?

Personally I am not a fan of having a Director of Football. Any manager worth his salt would not accept that, I think a manager has to manage, can anyone see Alex Ferguson. Arsene Wenger etc accepting that.

Huddersfield wanted the Cowley Brothers from Lincoln and they refused to work like that. As they said, "We stand or fall on our own."

Mark Guglielmo
289 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:48:11
Tony, I won't belabor this point much further, but Klopp & Guardiola both have Directors of Football (as do most of the top clubs in Europe). Of course I don't know their inner workings, but they do have them. Presumably they're not just titles who sit there and collect a paycheck.
Paul Bernard
290 Posted 25/11/2019 at 10:10:48
Mark at #160

If you or anybody else thinks that brands is bulletproof because he didnt buy half the players who played on Saturday, then you are part of the problem as you are unable to see the bigger picture, just like the board and manager.

The biggest issue with Brands is his failure to replace two of our biggest performers last season in Gana and Zouma.

Before you give me any defense of 'he bought Gbamin', you simply cannot replace one of europe's best midfielders for winning the ball back with a 23 year old who was advised to drop into centre back (ill find the link to it) when bought as a midfielder for £25m. Surely when a previous coach or agent says he might be a better as a centre half then investing £25m seems a little bit stupid don't you think? He knew since January 2019 that Gana was off to PSG.

Next is Zouma, brands waited for the whole summer window before realising we wouldnt get him back. Zouma was my first choice to replace well Zouma! I would of loved him back, but once Lampard said he wanted to see how he gets on we should of moved on. What did Brands do instead? chased Zaha for the last 7-10 days for a whopping £70m.

So instead of chasing a centre half with pace and power (and a brain) he then panic buyed iwobi instead for £28m initially.

Now you tell me Brands is bulletproof? Head over to the Summer transfer window thread to catch up on what a minority of us all said before the window closed - Silva alluded to the loss of Gana and Zouma after the southampton VICTORY. A much needed win and he still felt like he was left short - he was right.

So again whilst Silva will be sacked for his shortcomings, Brands should be bailed just like walsh was for chasing Number 10's instead of replacing Romelu.

Nicholas Ryan
291 Posted 25/11/2019 at 13:06:34
Just had the most devastating comment, on how far we've fallen, and how much trouble we're in. On another thread, I mentioned Chris Wilder [Sheff Utd] as a possible manager: my mate has just texted '... Good shout, but I don't think he'd come'!!
Mark Guglielmo
293 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:58:23
Paul @290 "If you or anybody else thinks that brands is bulletproof because he didnt buy half the players who played on Saturday, then you are part of the problem as you are unable to see the bigger picture, just like the board and manager."

LOL

OK, Paul. Congrats on your superfan status.

Brian Porter
294 Posted 26/11/2019 at 06:01:26
Why are Everton's Board Still Not Acting
From St. Rupert's Tower
https://princerupertstower.com/2019/11/24/everton-board-acting/
Ray Roche
295 Posted 26/11/2019 at 07:42:28
Paul@290

First point, all of Europe would have liked “one of Europe’s best midfielders “, not just PSG yet you think Brands just has to pop into Aldi and get one on their “Specials” day. Brands brought in Gbamin but injury has kept him out. (Probably due to an over the top challenge by Brands.)
Everton made a £50m bid for Zaha, not £70m, it was rejected so we went for Iwobi. It was only the press that kept the “deal alive” for days just to sell copy.
It’s pissing down here today, I suppose that’s Brand’s fault as well.?
Zouma.
We were stuffed by Chelsea, first messing us about with Zouma and then stopping Tomori joining us in a deal that was already done, just not signed off.

Paul Bernard
296 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:38:06
Mark @293, I think you will find the abuse that myself and other took on TDD for expressing our concerns about Brand's failure to replace Gana and Zouma was from our so called super fans 'for we were being negative' basically.
Its hilarious how now what we said has happened, its all Silva's fault and Brands gets a freebie. Also i would like to 'belabor' a previous posters valid point, we have had about 3-4 managers in the time frame we employed the DoF model and we have suffered the same results - maybe you should be looking at the bigger picture and working out the common theme.

Let me ask you this question if you wish to ignore most of my essay, do you think our team and/or squad is any better off since we adopted the DoF model? Do you think that having a clash of opinions between the manager and the man he reports to is good for the club?

Ray @295 What are you waffling on about with 'Specials day'? I already said that I hope Gbamin proves us wrong in the past and the injury was unfortunate, but trying to replace one of europes best defensive midfielders with a 23/24 year old who was advised he should drop back to centre half could be a major cock up on Brands part. So no I don't blame brands for the injury but his gamble wont pay off IMO (although I hope it does for the clubs sake of course).

I don't care if Zaha's price tag was £50m or £70m, he wasted far too much time chasing a player we didnt need, certainly not over a centre half or even a left footed right winger for example. If Brands wasnt chasing him until the last minute then why was Iwobi signed at the very last second (Iwobi's story not mine)?. I know why! Because he wanted Zaha until the last minute then panicked.

Why did he want Rojo last minute? Because he spent the whole time chasing Zouma and then wanted Tomori instead until Luiz was signed by arsenal. Again various sources not just my opinion.

So rather than being a condescending old t*t, maybe go back and look at the timeline of TDD and maybe the week before, you tell me Brands is not to blame!

Also listen to Silva's comments after Southampton (a game he won BTW) where he alludes to losing two of his best players. This can be interpreted as a excuse when you lose but to say it when we won? Seems either bizarre or maybe a contributing factor of why we are poor.

Again is that Silva's fault alone or Brands?

Conor McCourt
297 Posted 26/11/2019 at 14:47:43
Spot on Paul Bernard
Ray Roche
298 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:37:10
Paul Bernard@296

Waffling? Don't think so, just trying to point out to the likes of you that replacing arguably, the best player in Europe in his position is not an easy task. You can't wander into Aldi and get one off the shelf. Every bugger in every League wants a player like Gana yet you think Brands can just pluck one from out of thin air? We signed Gbamin who unfortunately got injured before we could even decide if he could take his place or not.

Zaha?How do you know how much time he "wasted" chasing him? Just how bloody close are YOU to what happens at Finch Farm? According to the Red Tops, we bid £70m for Zaha, according to other sources we bid £50M, it was refused, so we started looking elsewhere. Not like the Red Tops to exaggerate though is it? And Iwobi may yet prove to be a very good buy.

We were basically stitched up by Chelsea. Lampard eventually decided he wanted to "take a look" at Zouma before making a decision, then said he'd keep him so we cobbled up a deal for Tomori. Again, this was scuppered at the last minute by Luiz' defection to the Arse. Think about it, pre season people were talking about us making a top six challenge, in other words, we would be rivals to Chelsea. Chelsea didn't exactly help our cause did they? Maybe we (Boys Pen Billy?) were naive in thinking that Chelsea would not pull the rug out from under us on these deals but there you go. These things happen.
I'm sure that you would make a much better fist of it than Brands did. Why not send your CV in? I'd leave the bit about flipping burgers in McDonalds out though if I were you
So, from a condescending old tit, to a pretentious little prick, good evening.

Conor McCourt
299 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:44:55
Ray don't you see the irony of your argument. You have said it's a monumental task in replacing arguably the best player in Europe in his position. Mr Brands thought it's a good idea to sell him for 30 million, the price of a top Championship player or journeyman premier league player when he had a contract until 2022.
Ray Roche
300 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:59:15
Conor, in several reports at the time, Gana was promised a move at the end of the season, and every man and his dog agreed that it was to Gana's credit that he played his heart out for Everton instead of throwing a major sulk, like some players would. Yes, I agree that, even for a 30 year old, £30m was a bargain price for a player of his ability but if he wanted to go, what do you do? Keep a very unhappy player who'd stink the dressing room out, or get another half a season from him while you search for a replacement?
I personally think that PSG got a bargain. I'd like to know how much influence BPB still has in transfers. I believe he still has some influence in negotiations.
Conor McCourt
301 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:25:53
Ray do you not think players wish to leave clubs all the time it is up to the buying club to produce an acceptable fee. How come every club Marcel went chasing for a player could tell him to piss off?

Then any DOF worth their salt would make the area stronger if you couldn't replace the player. Silva wanted Doucoure Gomes and Gbamin to replace Gueye and
Schneiderlin. Doucoure would have made a big difference until Gbamin got adapted to the league.

Instead we spend over 100 million on players who have had next to no impact while leaving two gaping holes from the previous campaign.

Ray Roche
302 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:51:58
Conor, of course some players like to move every year or two, Lukaku, Pogba etc, but plenty of players are happy where they are and don’t want to unsettle their families. Some do actually have a degree of decency about them and choose to stay at the club they’re at.
And some clubs just say “ No deal” when another club comes calling. Like we did when clubs came in for Coleman, Baines, Stones(Chelsea) Gana ( the first time) McCarthy etc. Clubs don’t have to sell a player and the player, or more likely his agent, can also say no and wait for a bigger club.
You have absolutely no effin idea what goes on between clubs and agents etc, but don’t let that stop you from lambasting Brands.

I had a quick look at the Zaha situation from reports at the time earlier on. The alleged offer from Everton ranged from £50m to £76m plus Tosun and McCarthy to (laughably) £100m. And these reports were from so called journalists who claim to have “sources”.
No one on here has the remotest idea what really went on.

Paul Bernard
303 Posted 28/11/2019 at 13:04:14
Ray I will just reply in whole rather than each post:

Not once did I say Iwobi wont be good, I raised the issue of panic buying last minute when Zaha wasn't coming - someone he chased for the last 7-10 days of the window.

As for Gana's replacement, do you think Gbamin was the only option? Do you think you become successful by replacing one of europe's best with a midfielder who could be a centre half in disguise? Like I said I hope Gbamin becomes the next Yaya Toure but there was/is better players out there, so instead of chasing Zaha for £50m (lets go the lower end guess), he could of got a top young midfielder or a proven one.

As for being 'stitched up by chelsea' you really will come up with any old tripe to defend brands wont you? Chelsea made it clear they wanted to keep Zouma to 'have a look at him' like you said. Why did brands wait until TDD to realise they wont sell? Do you not agree he should of moved on sooner? I mean the fact no centre half was brought in tells you that at the moment coupled with this seasons results, I'm probably proven more right than you as it stands.

As for identifying targets, anyone close to me will tell you that I used to follow young talents as a hobby including the latest rumored target 'Gabriel Barbosa' when he was in brazil. I know I sound like a boring sod but scouting was something I considered doing by enrolling on a course initially. Getting paid to watch football 24/7? Yes please.

If you want my lists from around 2016 (i think) I will PM you it on social media.

So yeah as for flipping burgers, if you said I ate them all it would be hard to disagree. So as for being pretentious that all who flip burgers are thick, I think you now sound like a proper beaut. Judgmental - yes, condescending - yes, blinded by the brands love in - yes.

Maybe prove me wrong and put your CV into the relevant avenues and show me why you are all high and mighty know it all. From one young contentious prick to a Silly old little dick head, keep your mouth shut. Do not tell connor he doesnt effin know whats going on then expect him to accept your opinion which is based on the same thing as me and conor - opinions, you know nothing either.

Now if you wish to discuss football with facts, opinions and abit of decency then please continue.

Paul Bernard
304 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:40:16
Ray I should probably apologise for telling you to shut your mouth. I don't actually want you to shut up, I don't mind having a debate about football even if we only agree to disagree.

Your assessment of flipping burgers and such still makes me believe that you are abit stuck up or condescending though. Maybe a bit pathetic from the both of us arguing over a forum when we will never meet in real life.

Pointless really but I do apologize.

Steve Ferns
305 Posted 28/11/2019 at 14:45:22
Paul, Ray is a top guy. I have met him in person at one of the TW gatherings, so you could meet him in real life if you really wanted to.
Paul Bernard
306 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:01:20
Steve @305, I don't really want to meet him if I'm honest. His attitude/judgment of those who flip burgers as being 'low' or 'thick' means I don't want to be around people with that type of stereotypical arrogance to be fair.

I do attend the home games and the odd away one though so if I ever bumped into him then I probably wouldn't have anything to say to him, maybe like me, things get said that don't really need to be said.

if I have offended him that much then he can let me know.

Dave Abrahams
307 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:01:40
Paul (304), just to echo what Steve (305) says, I think if you and Ray actually met, you would have a good intelligent conversation with each other, having met Ray a couple of times, and reading your posts.
Brian Williams
308 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:02:30
So, from a condescending old tit, to a pretentious little prick, good evening.

People in Costa are looking at me for laughing out loud while sitting on me tod after reading that.

Paul Bernard
309 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:10:04
Dave and Brian, I don't think anybody sounds intelligent when it comes to football debates. The game changes so quickly overnight we could bother flip-flop in terms of who's opinion appears to be correct.

My only gripe with Ray is that he cant tell me and Conor we are wrong based on our opinions when his opinion seems wrong right now - agree to disagree.

All I can say back to the original points is that we are weak in CM & CB and brands dropped the ball IMO. Being condescending about blaming brands for the rain and such was pointless, bring some proper opinions and maybe some facts to have a sensible debate even if we don't agree in the end.

Believe it or not I am actually a open minded person haha!

Ray Roche
310 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:28:53
Paul, no need to apologise. We were both possibly a bit gobby but I always think that this site allows gobbiness and we should be able to indulge in a bit of banter and not be taken too seriously. It's not possible for the written word to convey the way a word is meant to sound. And, no, I am not offended by anything you've said.

The burgers comment was not really meant to deride the graduate with a pretty much worthless degree who has wasted a year ''travelling'' only to return and find that the only job available is flipping burgers. Honestly. (And I hope he reads this.)

Stereotypical arrogance. Hmm... that's a new one, said to me anyway. Silly old dickhead, now you're talking. I recognise THAT description, and then some.

Arrogance. Yet you say to Mark Guglielmo that he's ''unable to see the bigger picture''. He can't, but you can. Your arrogance puts you on a higher level than him? You see things that others can't? And I'M arrogant? Interesting.

Tell you what, give us a list of all the world-class midfielders and central defenders who were:

a) Available for us to buy;
b) Prepared to come to a mid-table (at best) Premier League club;
c) Affordable.

When you've done that then you'll be in a position to tell Brands exactly where he's going wrong. I'm sure he'll be all ears. As you're not of a mind to meet up at a ToffeeWeb get together, and you feel we'd have nothing to say anyway, then that's fine. It'll take time, but I'll get over it.

Ray Roche
311 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:31:37
Dave and Steve, thank you for the kind words. I really look forward to the next Excelsior meeting, hopefully with Mike Gaynes making an appearance.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

312 Posted 28/11/2019 at 15:55:51
Paul @ 309.

"I don't think anybody sounds intelligent when it comes to football debates."

Oh, I dunno. I think there's some that can and do.

Paul Bernard
313 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:14:03
Ray (310) You truly did come across as arrogant/ignorant and stereotyping that people who flip burgers are thick or something to that nature.
For the record I'm just a little old legal cashier trying to work his way to your 'level' working and studying, so I do apologize if my position of employment means I cannot have a opinion or it devalues it in any way. At least I had the decency to apologize for my part in being a little OTT.

As for the comments with Mark, I don't think that I need to get personal with him or anything of that nature, we have had 3 managers I believe under the DoF model and all 3 are soon to be under the same status - sacked.
So if we sack silva and hire someone else and it goes wrong, do we sack the manager again until Guardiola takes pity on us and 'saves us' or do we look at the other possibilities of why we have spent around £300-500m and gone backwards?

My ultimate questions to you are:

Are we as a squad or team A) Better than last year? B) Look like we are moving in the right direction? C) Will sacking Silva fix the issues?

Do you not apportion any of the blame to Brands at all? Again looking at the bigger picture?

In return ill answer your questions:

A) Technically speaking, most teams say their players arent for sale, so I'm sure it would be difficult to just replace like for like, but I don't think gambling £25m on a player advised to move to centre back was a great idea.
B) With the financial backing we showed in recent seasons id say we do have the money to attract players from top teams (at least their fringe players) to Everton FC. Gomes, Delph, Mina, Digne, promising players like Pickford, Keane (at the time), Klassen (didnt work out but was being linked with top teams). So I do think we could of got proven quality in yes.
C) Affordable? When we are chasing a £50m Zaha that we didnt need right now as a priority, are you telling me he shouldnt of been using that to chase either a proven striker or centre half?

Again just to be clear, I am not writing Gbamin off and I hope he becomes the best in the world in his position to EFC's benefit.

You still havent really proven me wrong that Brands waited too long to get Zouma, panicked, went for tomori instead, left it too late as Arsenal got Luiz, then chased players like Rojo out of desperation. There is no doubt in my mind that the job is difficult (never said it wasnt), but he wasted far too much time chasing Zaha when the centre half position needed filling.

The fact he ended up without Zaha and a centre half altogether backs up my opinion more than it does yours. Not being funny about it but the bigger picture makes more sense to me than it does to you, because you keep defending brands as though he is not to blame in any small way.

Paul Bernard
314 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:16:09
Jay Wood (312) Are you having a dig or just making a point?
Football, politics and religion are all recipes for disaster when it comes to debating them!

They can make the most sane man lose it when debating them hahaha

Paul Bernard
315 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:45:01
Dave A and Steve, I'm not sure if your earlier post was an invite of some sort, but I do appreciate the offer of inviting me to participate in the TW get together, that's if it was a genuine invite btw...
Steve Ferns
316 Posted 28/11/2019 at 16:54:34
Paul, all Blues are welcome.
Paul Bernard
317 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:00:33
Steve 3:16, Even those who flip burgers? Will there be burgers to eat? Is there a boxing ring incase me and Ray still can't agree? Maybe we could have a WWE Royal Rumble match if things get out of hand?

Joking aside, I honestly appreciate the invite to incorporate me into the 'TW family' if you will.

I have been on/lurking on TW for a few years now. Just don't speak much especially when things are bad because, like this conversation proves, we all have different opinions with the blame aimed at different parties.

Ray Roche
318 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:04:39
Paul, I didn't realise that you were little or old. Sorry. And I have little idea of what a legal cashier gets up to. I've led a very sheltered life.

My intention was not to come across as either arrogant or ignorant, I never regarded myself as either. Just shows, eh? If only we could see ourselves as others see us anyway, genuinely, I apologise for any offence. As I say, sometimes things lose a bit in translation so to speak.
I must be brief, I'm in the middle of packing, off on an early flight for a long Birthday weekend away.
Your questions.
No, we are not a better squad this term, in most ways. Losing both Gana and Zuoma was a major blow. Both were difficult to replace, Gana in particular. Zouma looked a far better player with us than he does this season, in my opinion, but he brought the best out of Keane who has looked poor for much of this season, hence the splinters in his arse from the bench..
I like Iwobi. I think that he'll improve the team/squad and prove to be a good buy. And if he keeps Schneids out, good result.
Kean? Well, until we get to see more of him in a team that's not under performing then I'll keep my powder dry and my opinions to myself. I do, however, think that he showed some flashes that made me think that there is definitely a player there.
Delph, better than Schneiderlin (sp) but injury prone. Like Sidibe, a squad player. Sidibe on loan, fine, buy him? No. I hope JJK will be back from Germany a better player and ready to take over from Coleman.My source in Germany, a Schalke supporter is certainly impressed.

Towards the latter part of last season, yes, we looked as if we had turned the corner, hence the anticipation at the start of this term. So it could be argued that, with a full team available and all cylinders firing, then we are moving in the right direction. But maybe with a different man at the helm.

Sacking Silva. I don't like to see us chopping and changing our manager. We're not Watford. But again, when you can see something is not working from the terraces for 3,4 or 5 games yet the manager continues to stick to the same formation, same tactics then you have to question his ability. The fact that he shows a degree of intransigence that would put Thatcher to shame does little for my confidence in him.

I think that Brands inherited a mess. I think that a lot more goes on behind the scenes that we, as fans, realise. I don't think he was ''chasing Zaha'' at the expense of looking for a Central defender. I think Brands is capable of doing both but there has to be players available who, as I said earlier, tick all the boxes. I think we were royally stuffed by Chelsea and, yes, Brands is partly culpable, but the enormity of the task he has faced since he arrived means that overnight success will take a couple of seasons, if you see what I mean! Gomes, Delph, Mina, Digne, Richarlison and Bernard are top players and will serve us well when we play to a system that suits us. Silva doesn't appear to know what this will be and I doubt if he knows who his best team is, but it seems that it MUST include Walcott and Siggy.

Finally, because time is of the essence, I am not part of a Brands ''Love in'', I just think that he has a hell of a job on his hands and it will take time. I also think that there is lots going on in the background that we never hear about, approaches made to agents,clubs etc., bids knocked back, players changing their mind because their missus can't POSSIBLY stray THAT far from Harrods etc.. It's a difficult job.

Ray Roche
319 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:07:05
Paul, just read your post re the ToffeeWeb get together. As Steve said, all are welcome, I believe.
Bring your apron.
Brian Williams
320 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:13:46
Boxing ring?
S'pose we could arrange all the zimmers and walking frames (mine's a GTS) in a bit of a boxing ring shape then organize ramps for the protagonists to make their slow and careful entrance.
A commode in each corner, somewhere to put the fighters teeth, and a defrib machine on standby, and that's just for the crowd!
Ah the smell of liniment, sawdust................and pish!
Paul Bernard
321 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:18:48
Ray I am 6ft 2in and 20 stone, I'm 30 years old - trust me I'm not little or old but I am starting to feel it!!!

First of all I would like to offer a clean slate of debate if you will. I do not think Brands has it easy. I think overall he has done a wonderful job. However, he must be responsible to some degree as no matter who he chased or how he chased them, he didnt deliver that much needed Proven midfielder, Zouma or another decent centre half, or even a left footed right winger (just my preference on the latter). So I think Silva has been left short.
I do agree however that Silva's ability or lack of it to change the team/formation will be his downfall.

I think in order to give an example of what I consider 'the bigger picture', Klopp, Pep, Pochettino (to a degree given he is sacked too), are all provided with players to fit the managers system - something Zouma and Gana played a massive part in. So if he had to overpay for Doucoure instead of chasing Zaha for £50m, then we should do it. Either back the manager or sack him.

I just feel strongly that Marcel has been given a free ride from alot of people, I think the sacking of Silva will not fix things long term. I'm not saying he should stay but we should acknowledge the whole mess of Walsh/Koeman & Brands/Silva Who signed who so to speak.

Another poster either here or another fan forum nailed it, he said why bring a manager in and then not let him buy the players or argue over who to buy? We sign players the manager doesnt want or not sure how to use (Kean being a recent example), then we sack him, the next man either buys or is given players to work with and we have the same results.

So if we get a new man in and its the same old, same old in 12 months time, would it be fair of me to say we should scrap the DoF model or certainly reduce Brands influence on who we buy?

All being said I really hope brands works out and even Silva for that matter, because my main thought is wanting whats best for Everton Football Club.

Paul Bernard
322 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:20:18
Brian at 320, I'm not sure if the defib is for the old men or the 'bulky' men like me. I'm not going 12 rounds put it that way!

Maybe I can bring Conor as a tag team partner so I can have a breather?

Dave Abrahams
323 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:27:07
Paul (315), my post was just a general observation, that you and Ray, if you met, would get on okay, but as Steve ( 316) says, every one is welcome at ToffeeWeb meetings, so if you’re free for the next one, you will be more than welcome.
Brian Williams
324 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:34:21
Paul. We just use it when Dave Abrahams falls asleep! Wakes him up with a bang I tell yer!
Dave Abrahams
325 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:43:36
Brian (324), Not half!!, by the way if anyone has got a good cure for insomnia I’d love to hear it. Please don’t mention watching Everton, that doesn’t work!!!
Brian Williams
326 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:46:52
Vodka, Dave, lots of it mate.
Mark Guglielmo
327 Posted 28/11/2019 at 17:48:19
Wow this conversation took off! There's a lot I'd like to address (shocker, I know), but it'll have to wait until after Thanksgiving dinner. There's just one comment that's too good to pass up.

Paul @317, since you later shared that you're 30 (I'm just excited there's someone here younger than me; I'm 46), what I'm about to ask seems very reasonable.

This comment:
"Steve 3:16, Even those who flip burgers? Will there be burgers to eat? Is there a boxing ring incase me and Ray still can't agree? Maybe we could have a WWE Royal Rumble match if things get out of hand?"

Please tell me this was on purpose and not just a happy error brought on by a simple numerical typo (3:16 instead of 316)?

If it was on purpose, it's bloody brilliant. Even if I'm likely the only person who picked up on it.

Ray Roche
328 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:00:23
Paul@321
Yep! Fine by me, clean slate and all.
And if you want five rounds in the Excelsior then that’s not a problem.
You can buy the first one.
( 6-2, 20 stone, 30 years old? Do you think I’m mad?) I’m 71 on Saturday (please don’t spend too much on my present) but I have put on a lot of weight over the years. I used to be 9lbs.
And you raise some good points but time won’t allow me to give them the consideration that they deserve.
I will say, though, that we were linked with Doucoure but we’re unlikely to discover the facts of any bid. Reading your second paragraph we both agree in parts, I always think that we don’t know what goes on in the background and it’s unfair to hang Brands for that reason alone, but we can see Silva’s incompetence every week.
Right, signing off for now, let’s hope the Leicester game isn’t too embarrassing.
Steve Ferns
329 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:10:10
We need to organise another meeting now!

Mark, you’re far from the youngest on here mate. I only just joined the over 40’s club myself, earlier this year.

Lyndon recently came over to England and saw a match. I think we should force him to let us know next time so we can all buy him a pint for his excellent work with the website and facilitating this community.

Obviously, the same goes for Michael, but he’s more secretive about his visits to Goodison!

Conor McCourt
330 Posted 28/11/2019 at 18:29:49
Paul I was going to say don't be bringing me into this as my father was a boxer and I have the face to prove it.

Ray in light of the fact Paul Bernard is 30, 6 ft 2 and 20 stone I'm totally with Paul on any argument or debate, whatever he says I'm in total agreement with. Hope you won't be offended.

I'm of a similar age to Steve Ferns but also Marco so I don't know if it's a good or bad thing.

Paul Bernard
331 Posted 29/11/2019 at 14:15:30
Mark @327 I'm such a big nerd that the Steve 3:16 was just too good a opportunity to turn down!

Im glad somebody else appreciated my nerd-ery :)

Mark Guglielmo
332 Posted 29/11/2019 at 18:48:49
Paul I'm so happy I caught it LOL! Nicely done, nicely done.

I watched WAY more Attitude Era WWE than I care to admit, and I loved Debra's puppies.

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