Morgan Schneiderlin joins Theo Walcott and Fabian Delph on the sidelines with an expected absence of two weeks
Manchester United 1 - 1 Everton
Everton took the lead through a lucky own-goal that was not called back by VAR, but could not hold on to it after a long rearguard campaign with a few missed chances to win it squandered.
Faced with illness of Sigurdsson and Sidibe, Ferguson must make do without four injured midfield players: Schneiderlin as well as Delph, Gbamin and Gomes. Digne, Mina and Coleman are passed fit so the caretaker manager has gone with a back three and Davies in midfield. Anthony Gordon and Cuco Martina are on the bench.
It was a crazy start as Man Utd almost scored from the kick-off. But then at the other end, De Gea was fooled by a cross and forced into a late save, Everton coming close from the corner.
It was a very early yellow card for Davies, who brought down McTominay. But Pickford got the ball and launched a massive kick upfield, Hogate shooting weakly from the throw-in.
A fantastic ball from Lindelof found Rashford, who shot wide. Digne was then beaten for pace by James as he expected Pickford to come for the ball, thankfully James fired wide.
Lingard went in on Keane with his studs showing but made no contact, no booking. Everton were relying on the long ball when they got the chance. Richarlison suffered a phantom knock that troubled him after there was no sympathy from the referee.
Everton were pressing high up the field and maintaining a very high tempo to the game, while the home side wanted to build slowly until they could conjure a way forward down the flanks. But Everton were keeping their shape well, at the expense of a corner that was cleared.
Digne was carrying a groin injury and he went down after 20-odd minutes, Baines replacing him. Davies caught McTominay and gave up a dangerous free-kick that almost caught out Pickford, Rashford firing over the big Everton wall.
There was some good play from Everton, building nicely with a series of accurate passes but it broke down at Coleman. However, the ball fell to Calvert-Lewin but his strike was fielded by De Gea. Richarlison then won a corner after some good work but nothing came of it.
Lindelof pushed Richarlison but Baines's free-kick was overhit and Holgate's difficult volley was driven well wide. Good pressure saw two fine balls in from Iwobi. winning a corner. A brilliant delivery from Baines that actually bobbled in off Lindelof's thigh, with VAR checking for Calvert-Lewin putting off De Gea with his arm. It really looked like a clear foul on the goalkeeper but was strangely not called back. Goal for Everton.
Everton attacked again, another brilliant ball from Iwobi that Calvert-Lewin dived for but could not reach. But the Everton centre-forward was putting himself about well and getting at Man Utd at every opportunity, as Everton continued to press the home side back.
In a remarkable first half, Everton had done more than enough to both match and contain Man Utd, as well as score a somewhat fortuitous goal, deserved as it came through Calvert-Lewin's persistence.
It was end to end after Everton restarted, highly competitive. Calvert-Lewin went on a great run but was pushed wide and could not get off a shot. At the other end, Fred drove wide.
Tom Davies went down in agony, having rolled his ankle. Richarlison then got a silly card for kicking the ball away. Some strange decisions from Michael Oliver, a free-kick to Everton when Holgate fouled McTominay, a corner to Man Utd when Maguire headed the ball wide of the Everton goal.
Man Utd attacked strongly, a brilliant strike by Luke Shaw brought out a very good save from Pickford, pushed out to James who leathered the ball at Lingard's head. Everton attacked well enough until a really lame shot from Calvert-Lewin dribbled well wide.
It was helter-skelter stuff, scrappy for the purist, but passionate and committed for two pretty closely matched teams, with Greenwood on for the Red Devils, and the Blues perhaps starting to tire with 20 minutes left to protect that precious lead.
A corner saw Lindelof fire inches over the bar with Pickford launching himself. Kean replaced Bernard, an interesting change by Ferguson but the greater pressure was understandably coming from the home side.
Everton had a chance to break down the left, with Calvert-Lewin sprinting into space down the right, but Iwobi could not get the ball past Shaw.
Richarlison pounced on a mistake by McTominay and galloped ahead only to be fouled but no penalty. At the other end, a Man Utd free-kick caused havoc in the Everton defence but no clear chance. However, the swarming red shirts were being driven by a very frustrated home crowd, with the Everton fans singing happily.
But from hardly anything, Greenwood drove his shot clinically past Pickford to level the score. Goal stood after VAR. Everton were then really under the cosh, and it seemed inevitable that they would get another, but Everton revived a little and applied some pressure of their own.
Iwobi saw a chance and fired a tremendous shot that was very well saved by De Gea. Everton tried to use Kean but couldn't get the ball to him. However, Calvert-Lewinwas tripped, and Baines lined up a special from a long way out, driven high and wide.
Then, a bizarre moment as Ferguson subs on Niasse for Moise Kean, who had only been on for 18 minutes. Kean walked disconsolately down the touchline straight to the changing room, apparently failing to implement Ferguson's instructions, and perhaps the very last time we will see him in an Everton shirt?
Into 4 mins of added time and most of the pressure was coming from the home side, Pickford being called upon to stay alert. Everton got possession and attacked somewhat half-heartedly, looking to keep the point rather than secure all three, which was a pity, but understandable after a tremendous effort by the Blues.
Scorers: Greenwood (73'); Lindelof (og:32')
Manchester United: De Gea; Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw; McTominay, Fred, Lingard (65' Greenwood); James (86' Mata), Martial, Rashford.
Subs: Romero, Tuanzebe, Williams, Young, Pereira.
Everton: Pickford; Coleman, Keane, Holgate, Mina, Digne (25' Baines); Bernard (70' Kean (88'Niasse)), Davies [Y:6'], Iwobi; Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison [Y:].
Subs: Stekelenburg, Martina, Gordon, Tosun.
Referee: Michael Oliver
Reader Comments (417)
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1 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:03:33
2 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:03:45
Coleman Holgate Keane Mina Digne
Hmmm, Cuco Martina is on the bench!!!
3 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:05:17
4 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:07:59
5 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:08:30
6 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:14:31
7 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:15:59
8 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:16:24
9 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:17:06
10 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:17:41
11 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:18:48
I know that Duncan's hand has been forced by injuries, but even so that's a radical change in personnel and formation.
The high profile omissions not even on the bench is a story in itself.
This is going to be a fascinating watch.
12 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:20:39
13 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:21:31
14 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:24:53
15 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:30:25
16 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:32:50
Don't know what we would have done if Coleman and Mina weren't deemed fit.
17 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:36:48
We are expected to lose so its free hit in that sense.
Lets hope we get the bounce of the ball because I think we will need some help.
18 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:37:34
19 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:48:11
20 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:50:46
21 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:54:56
It's going to be a fascinating watch, as I said, to see if Duncan Ferguson has a bit more about him as a football coach than he has been credited with.
22 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:55:55
23 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:06:44
24 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:07:54
25 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:16:30
26 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:24:06
27 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:26:15
28 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:27:38
29 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:28:43
30 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:30:52
31 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:34:34
32 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:39:52
33 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:44:05
34 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:50:36
35 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:54:21
36 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:57:04
Souness showing his allegiances there!
37 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:57:20
DeGea wasnt positive enough imo, and flapped at it.
More of the last 15 mins throughout the second half.
38 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:58:57
39 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:59:06
40 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:09
In just a few days in the job Ferguson has an injury ravaged side fighting for the shirt. DCL looking like he knows what it means to be an Everton number 9.
Not much possession but plenty of pressure. Can't fault anyone in that first half.
This would be a famous win if we can keep it up. Come on you Blues!
41 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:56
42 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:59
Like last week, we are seeing some very canny coaching here with vastly depleted resources.
Nice kidology at the KO, giving the impression we were going to play 5-3-2, but then Mason stepping forward to make it 4-4-2.
Apart from the Lingard chance after 15 seconds, we have again largely kept United at arm's length.
The discipline and game plan has - apart from James skinning Digne - largely nullified their counter-attacking game and pace up front.
Dom and Richie dovetailing nicely. Tom snuffing things out around their penalty area and putting us on the front foot. Iwobi and Bernard supporting their full backs. Mason doing well in an unfamiliar position. The defence barely ruffled.
And as with last week, Duncan has had to paste this together without working on it with Siggy and Sidibe falling sick at the hotel overnight.
I feared the worse when VAR checked the corner, but it was de Gea being weak, no foul by the two Everton players converging on him.
Absolutely cracking corner by Iwobi on the goal. More delivery like that please.
Tom walking a fine line on a yellow. One sub already used up with another injury. Here's hoping we can keep 11 fit men on the park for the second half and that the Duncan effect carries us to another precious 3 points.
I'm enjoying this!
43 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:02:35
44 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:04:03
45 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:11:31
The dream start continues.
46 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:27:40
48 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:46:28
Well that's the Everton career done
49 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:48:14
50 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:53:50
51 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:54:35
52 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:54:47
But of a sour taste with the Kean incident. He was looking lively. Cant understand that at all. Complete insult.
53 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:55:53
I think this man is worth serious consideration as manager, a point at Old Trafford, decimated by injuries, is a serious achievement.
I worry about Pickford.
54 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:24
No idea what happened with Moise Kean. But that seems like his Everton career is hanging by a thread.
55 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:43
Keep up picking the results so and it keeps everyone happy.
56 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:47
From the TV he looked lively enough, but would be interested in what someone at the game could see.
Regardless, I said after the Sheff Utd game that he won't be an Everton player within a year. I won't lose too much sleep over him.
Anyway, shouldn't detract from a huge effort. But it will.
57 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:57:19
58 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:04
59 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:04
BIGGGGG call by Duncan Ferguson to sub out Kean just 15 minutes after bringing him on. Didn't even look at the Italian as he came off. DF showing himself to be cold, calculating and decisive.
That's gotta hurt the kid, as shown by him walking straight down the tunnel.
60 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:08
61 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:00:45
Ernie, watch the Everton foodbank interview. Kean understands English perfectly fine.
62 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:00:52
Sorry but the kid Kean looks Under 23 level.
63 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:01:00
64 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:01:12
65 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:03:30
66 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:06:14
67 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:01
Kids confidence will be rock bottom now.
68 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:06
I share your concerns over Pickford.
Draw was probably a fair result, but imo Pickford should have saved their goal.
DF has got an injury/sick ravaged side playing for the shirt.
What could DF do with a full fit squad?
69 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:48
Still, an excellent result with a patched up side. Let's hope we can get some people back for Weds
70 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:52
71 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:08:08
If what was required was clear, then fair enough. Rather have tired legs playing for the team than fresh legs doing his own thing.
72 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:09:06
Tho thought all the team were great special mention for Holgate DCL and Baines.
73 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:09:33
74 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:10:59
75 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:11:22
76 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:11:34
77 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:13:34
78 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:13:42
79 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:14:29
80 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:14:35
I trust that Ferguson had his reasons for hooking Kean. I for one am prepared to have faith in his decsion to make the substitution and not speculate about something I've no idea on.
81 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:15:02
If DF didnt fancy him why bring him on? Shouldve just brought Niasse on in the first place, Iwobi was out of steam so if the manager wanted to waste time he should have kept Keans fresh legs on.
Everton are destroying the lad.
82 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:17:36
Holgate looked good in CM too.
83 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:17:48
84 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:19:55
My MOTM - DCL
Iwobi though - poor.
85 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:20:46
Bill@77: You're making a whole string of assumptions there!
86 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:07
So it was a cheap stunt from Ferguson? So you know his thinking?
Some presumption that like and one, bearing in mind what was at stake and Ferguson's personality, is IMHO complete bollocks!
87 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:14
That's one helluva leap to make on the Kean-Ferguson call Bill.
Personally, I continue to be impressed by how much Duncan is getting out of an injury-ravaged squad, low on confidence and belief when he took over just two games ago, with so little preparation time for both games.
He is showing himself to be a very canny - and decisive - coach.
88 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:29
I can only hope for kean's sake he doesn't have a go at Dunc!
89 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:35
91 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:25:06
92 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:29
93 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:42
For those concentrating instead on the Kean situation get a life.
94 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:43
95 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:27:14
96 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:28
97 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:38
My guess is that Ferguson and Silva before him see something in Kean in training on a weekly basis that they are not happy with.
He looks overweight to me for a start and obviously didn't follow Duncs instructions and that's why he took him off.
I have no problem with Ferguson not saying so publicly to the Sky cameras and using the time wasting line.
His actions today in taking Kean off and no doubt his words in the dressing room after the game send out a clear message to all our squad. 100% effort is the minimum requirement.
98 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:49
Baines was excellent, and showed we needn't try to rush Digne back, as we clearly did today.
Sadly, things going from bad to worse for Kean. He was involved in a few promising attacks, though did seem to commit a couple rash fouls... not that Niasse is exactly known for his defensive grit.
99 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:29:46
100 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:32:32
Duncan can say all he wants, but my take on it is Kean was too eager to get involved and didn't do as he was told. He tracked back leaving bare up front
I dont agree that this can destroy Kean. Every young player suffers a set backs. If he is good enough. He will rise to the top regardless of a fruitless 15 minutes at OT.
Ferguson? He simply has to point to the result
101 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:32:47
He either takes it on the chin and proves Dunc wrong or he takes the easy path and goes back to Italy ! I hope he takes the first option as all the players must be mentally tough if we aim to get to where we want to get !
Embarrassing for him yes but the balls in his court now!
Terrific effort from the players and dome canny management at the start pretending to play 5 at the back. I thought Holgate was superb in midfield by the way!
If Dunc gets a result in Wednesday then surely he comes into recognition for the job! Im enjoying seeing him in the touch line but hope he doesnt have pneumonia before Wednesday night!
102 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:34:55
It was great as well to see us keep pushing on after they equalised.
This fella is truly unafraid.
103 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:35:49
Kean then rushes back, gives away a free kick and gets hauled off in a fit of pique by Duncan. He has shredded the young lad's confidence in the process. Kean was doing okay in my opinion. If all he wanted was a headless chicken up top why not bring Niasse on instead of him? His post match excuses about wasting time by making another sub were an indication that on reflection he realised he had made a poor decision.
104 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:37:04
105 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:38:02
He's not took him off for fun, there will be a good reason.
Reading between the lines I'm guessing Kean is not the best off the field also.
There we go I'm discussing Kean too, when it should be all about the teams good performance.
I know one thing I wouldn't be looking for another manager just yet.
106 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:42:45
107 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:05
While we all joke he's made the players play out of fear I think that's a massive disservice to the man. He's said himself that that side of him is in the past. This is a coach that has learnt a hell of a lot over the years. Right now it would be madness to bring a new manager in.
108 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:40
109 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:43
As far as the interview is concerned, I think he's saying one thing in public and will say another in private. If, and it is an if, he's pulled him off for lack of effort or not following instructions, he's sending out a signal to everybody. If that's the case, it's good strong management for me!
Good point under the circumstances.
110 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:23
Dunno why people are having a pop at Pickford today. I thought in the 1st half he could have come out to James when the winger whizzed past Digne, but then again, he may have computed the angles and settled on staying at home as his best option. Other than one goal kick straight into touch in the 2nd half, his kicking was very good, he pulled off a couple of excellent full stretch saves and was solid in all else he was called on to do.
Whilst United had the better of the 2nd half, the back four mostly held solid. Seamus looked the weakest link to me. Keane and Mina sound. Baines exhibited the class you never lose. Digne hasn't looked right for a few weeks now and I hope he gets to sit out a few games with this groin strain to rehabilitate and come back stronger.
Tom and Mason did very well in central midfield, even with Tom walking a tightrope after the early yellow. He does so much good break up work which largely goes unnoticed and then quickly moves the ball on to put Everton on the front foot. Too unappreciated by many on here, I feel.
Iwobi and Bernard, whilst supporting their full backs well, offensively were quite marginal. Both are technically sound and capable of incisive plays, but both - Iwobi in particularly - need to be stronger on the ball and certainly with hold up play when receiving the ball. Otherwise, it keeps coming back at us.
DCL was again immense. Second match running he ended up with the MoTM award. It makes so much of a difference to have Richarlison in close attendance playing off him. The Brazilian again playing hard for the team.
Kean on then off for Niasse? I'm sure this won't count as the worst day in his career in professional football.
As for Ferguson, well played again Big Man. Keeping it simple. Playing to our strengths, rather than attempting to impose a 'football philosophy' we are not capable of.
It's results rather than performances that count for more for Everton at the moment. And Duncan is delivering on both.
Can't wait to return to the bear pit v Leicester on Wednesday. Gonna be another interesting watch, I reckon.
111 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:36
112 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:38
113 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:47:13
114 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:49:27
That said, Keangate was something we did not need and a faux pas from Big Dunc. Regardless of where you stand on it, I think most would agree it was easily avoidable. The reaction of Iwobi and others to the sub was bemusement, not good.
I also found the fist pumping after a draw a little cringeworthy. Totally warranted if you have won the game, but here it felt more like something a lower league team would do in a cup.
115 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:51:13
Hopefully we have enough in the tank to bring another big performance on Wednesday. I'm really looking forward to that now. Everton are starting to regain their identity. Well played lads.
116 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:52:14
Get rid ASAP. Too much too young. The kid will destroy his career before its begun... Brands signing. Not good.
117 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:52:17
Our bank four lack pace but playing deeper and with Holgate and Davis immense in front of them we did well.
I am certain that a bad last result last weekend coupled with another defeat today would have seen the return of David Moyes in the coming days, however, that is now on hold and a couple of good results this side of Christmas might result in Duncan getting the job until the end of the season.
We have to accept that with the players at our disposal that our style of play will not be easy on the eye but we are more solid defensively and Charlie and DCL are always a threat upfront.
Keep it going boys!
118 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:53:05
119 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:56:51
Team result today; lots of positives and a manager who cares as much as the supporters.
Future fixtures don't feel quite so intimidating now.
120 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:57:38
121 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:58:16
As for the Kean sub. I don't know if it was to waste time or he wasn't trying.
But who cares, we now have a manager not afraid to make decisions. Now it's up to Kean to either come out fighting, or sulk.
122 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:58:52
123 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:01:02
I couldn't give a monkey's if it looks embarrassing if it pays dividends on the field. When big Dunc whips up the fans, all he needs to say to the players is "Do it for them!"
That's my take on it anyway.
124 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:01:47
So if he stays 20 years, he's successful with us, who cares? He doesn't want to be anywhere else.
We might hire a manager with experience elsewhere, one who has won in the past. I suspect Duncan Ferguson might want it???? A proven international coach who might have won. Would Arteta want Duncan?? Ancelotti want Ferguson, he's got Clement??
Any manager coming in would be daft not to want Duncan. But that might not work. If we are going to gamble, gamble on big Duncan 4 points from 6 against top 6 sides.
Take it away from him, sign a multi-million £contract with a coach and lose 4 out of 6 and see what happens Mr Moshiri.Give it to Duncan and his team, for Christ's sake. He's got a decimated squad, a shirker in Kean yet still delivers.
Dont expect too much on Wednesday. Arsenal with a skeleton make shift team if injuries keep pilling up. Gordon will play, others will play and with a little luck we will do well.
But, if it goes wrong now, it won't be down to Duncan or those we have left standing. Oh Pickford needs dropping, he is a liability at the moment. Needs a kick up the arse, drop him.
125 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:02:29
No sympathy for work shy arrogant players young or old. Duncan Ferguson has set his standards and you either buy into it or you are out. The days of SIlva hugging and constantly putting his arm around the players is well and truly over and I'm all for it.
Right now I'm all for Duncan getting the job full time. He really is demonstrating match by match that he is up to doing the job full time.
126 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:03:08
Re the Kean substitution, I don't think we need to write off the young 19-year-old's career just yet. Big Dunc will have had his reasons but none of us know so there's no point being dramatic about it at this stage. It's just one incident, the same as when Sidibe got hauled off early in the Derby.
Moise is very young and this season was always going to be about him adapting to a new League and country. Sure, he was visibly disappointed to be substituted but he has all the time in the world to turn round his career here. We are talking about a kid at 19, not a proven striker 10 years older.
127 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:05:26
One of Klippety's best attributes is the ability to get the players and fans on board and united. Ferguson seems to have that same talent, whatever else he provides as a manager.
128 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:05:41
I'd hope Kean gets a full explanation of why and what's expected, then is asked to show he understands by demonstrating his skills against Leicester.
That would be the motivational and inspirational thing to do.
129 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:06:33
The mugs over the last few years would have lost that match. Back him big time instead of nit-picking about Kean. Tell me a manager who would have played Holgate in that position.
130 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:07:58
Kidnap Kenwright tonight before he puts the poison in and let the big man do his job for the season. I see a ruthless streak in Dunc, and as long as you keep doing what he wants you're in the team, perfect. Keep the buggers on their toes, and the manager keeps control.
Leicester will be turned over Wednesday night, by the way. Dunc will be only too aware we owe them one. Good on yer, big fella!!
131 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:08:00
Here's hoping we have a few more players available, to think of all the injuries he has to deal with Ferguson has really excelled in a short space of time.
If we can progress into the semis of the cup, the Ferguson effect will really gather steam. This is one of the hardest and really unfathomable skills in management, to create a culture of winning and fighting. Klopp has done it, Pochettino had it for a few seasons at Spurs, Mourinho has done it with a few teams. Let's hope Ferguson has some of it, Evertonians need it and I think deserve it.
For those sensitive types who are questioning his treatment of Kean, get over it, if Kean is as good as you all presume he will get over it.
If Kean can't get over this incident, he is not going to succeed as a professional in this country, nevermind the ruthless Italian Seria A.
132 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:08:01
133 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:20:57
Regarding Kean, something fishy about him. Juve let him go. Both Silva and Dunc don't fancy him. Fined for lateness. Subbed for some reason we don't know.
All I know is no one player is bigger than the club.
134 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:21:03
Glad to see Seamus doing well. Obviously given a man to man-marking job on in-form Rashford & dealt well with the task. Overall, a very satisfying point & one we wouldn't have gotten a month ago!!!
135 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:21:25
IF he deserves to start!
136 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:22:02
If Ferguson is a good man-manager, then I expect Kean, to be back on the pitch against Leicester at some stage, but only if Kean, is prepared to listen and then take on-board, what his present manager wants from him?
I've criticised the other Keane, (Michael) but he played like a man today, played with more confidence, and along with Holgate, and Calvert-Lewin, it helped to give Everton, a much better spine right through the middle, possibly for the first time this season.
Made up with our fight today, made up with our shape, made up the players are playing for the shirt again, (honest) and like a lot of posters have said, I'm made up we've got 4 points in the last week, because I'm pretty sure we would be in the bottom 3 now, if we hadn't got rid of Marco Silva!
137 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:22:13
Duncan has 4 in 2 difficult games.
Who gives a fuck about Kean? It's all about the team, not individuals.
138 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:24:14
139 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:25:13
The lad was not work-shy, it was bad man-management by Dunc. If people are saying he is not fit, then he should not be in the squad. He also shouldn't be getting subbed for Niasse who should never be near the squad ahead of a young Under-23 forward.
140 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:26:52
However, now is the time to rise above it and show the big man what he can do to earn his place in the team!
141 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:27:07
We weathered the storm and although a strange scenario, we had no other option than to swap striker for striker with that bench.
I am sure Kean will come good, but holding the ball up or tackling is not his greatest strength.
I thought we played with guts today, hardly any midfield, forced sub after 20 mins, cannot fault the effort again today.
142 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:27:16
As for taking Kean off, wasn't he very professional in his interview, saying he was using up time, and keeping his real reason behind closed doors.
143 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:28:11
They asked thumbs up for Dunc to get the manager's job full time. Thumbs down for no.
4288 thumbs up. 969 thumbs down.
144 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:28:36
145 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:29:33
146 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:30:44
147 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:32:08
It seemed like the old Duncan. Get sent off, clap your right hand on your left bicep, flex your arm in a fuck you all gesture. A desperate sign of weakness.
Duncan is a short term fix, well done to him but I hope we get someone much better soon. He has confirmed his legendary status but his methods are unsustainable. I hope he hasn't damaged a young player with great potential to prove he is a hard man.
148 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:32:50
149 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:35:19
150 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:35:39
The fact that Keane sulked off down the tunnel in a stroppy huff shows all you need to know about Moise Kean. The club and a result comes before kean's fragile ego, it was good management.
Let not forget it was Duncan who put Kean on in the first place.
Duncan is setting the standard.
151 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:36:37
152 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:37:26
153 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:39:02
MOTM Holgate for me. Excellent game, stepping into midfield especially.
If anyone believes Dunc was subbing Kean to kill time, theres a bridge Id like to sell you in Brooklyn. Total b.s. and misdirection, suave move by Dunc to keep it in house.
I love Moise Kean and think he looked good. Clearly Dunc wants more hustle defensively; he was strolling a bit when not on the ball.
Dunc should be named manager now in my opinion. I think his pulling Moise is a great message: get o board or youre not playing under my watch.
Nothing but 100% for the shirt. Thats just fine by me.
Give him a contract until the end of the year. Hes shown more tactical nous, more bravery, more humility, more passion, and more intelligence in two games than weve seen in years.
Its Fergie time, for me.
154 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:40:00
From Duncan's comment it appears that's not the case!
A very disciplined performance, so different from Silva's shambolic set ups.
Now for Leicester!!
155 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:41:43
156 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:42:10
Now all of a sudden he's the messiah, how fickle evertonians are.
157 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:43:19
158 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:43:58
159 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:44:06
Holgate, simple and basic but effective. Protected the back four and only occasionally tried to do too much.
A side note for a Richarlison who when moved to Left midfield, consistently got the ball and carried up field, bought a foul and kept United honest.
A player who I though was out of step today was Pickford. His kicking was atrocious. Everton clearly set up to over load and often he got nowhere near his targets. His efforts from back passes were poor too.
His attitude was questionable too, after a mistake and players at last lambasting or encouraging him he didnt want a bar of it.
Again from Rashfords free kick he moved left towards his wall making the save much harder for himself. Kinda like Brighton, theres a technical issue there for sure. His parries were poor and not far enough to the side, we just got lucky. Its a shame we dont have decent competition for his place.
He needs a rest.
160 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:11
But the fact is these players have let us down time after time, they are handsomely paid and I have no problem with Duncan Ferguson giving any single one of them a well deserved kick up the arse.
A sub got subbed Kean isn't the first he wont be the last. His reaction in the coming games will tell you all you need to know about his mentality and if he really does want to die playing for that shirt.
161 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:13
162 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:16
Tony did you watch the game in town mate?
163 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:22
164 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:01
165 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:31
As a massive Kean fan-boy, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
The manager, whomever he is, is entitled to make any move he deems necessary too get points. If Dunc saw something he didnt like, he needs to pull Jesus if thats what it takes.
Regarding the man management, this is, without question, a harsh move for young Moise. However, the move was made by a man whos motivated and entire fan base and galvanized a team in two games.
I trust, despite this being very, very harsh, Duncan will get this right. Theres zero indication he cant do it.
And if Moise does fall foul of Ferguson? Ship him out. Team before individuals. Always.
166 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:57
167 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:47:09
However the board do have to thing probably about the long term manager, look at Spurs now. Arsenal and United will be looking for new managers also.
168 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:48:57
169 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:50:13
Thought Pickford was dreadful at their goal.
170 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:50:42
171 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:51:53
As for the Kean incident, I feel for the lad. None of know what Ferguson was thinking and whether his reasoning was genuine. What I do think is important, is how it looks to everyone else and the media and a lot of supporters think the kid was embarrassed.
172 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:52:00
Most are merely acknowledging what a brilliant job hes done in two difficult fixtures with a decimated squad. From his team selection to tactics he has been spot on.
Sound like people on here just have a personal axe to grind with Ferguson.
We came to Old Trafford with our patched up B team and nearly won...…..but because he hooked an underperforming player hes now a disgrace and a bully? Jesus no pleasing some on here.
173 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:54:08
174 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:54:20
At this point in time, theres one American claiming Duncan is indeed the Messiah.
Hes exactly what the Blue world needs at this moment, and Im prepared to pin all my hopes in him.
Hes been marvelous.
175 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:56:35
I dont agree. I didnt see that. Had I, Id be squarely in your court.
I dont think it was a small penis move.
I think Dunc will get it right with Moise in the end. Hes just gotten us 4 points from Chelsea and Man U away. Give the guy a chance to keep moving forward, and lets see what happens with the team and Moise.
176 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:57:35
177 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:57:54
178 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:58:39
Yes, you're correct: he put him on, but then made an incorrect decision. Why put him on in the first place?
He must have known he would use his last sub to waste time. Why not Martina for Richarlison or Calvert-Lewin? that would have made sense.
179 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:58:55
One of the biggest things missing from my life is not getting to many away matches, Brian (and six little numbers, obviously!) because, since Koeman came to Everton, it's not something I can really justify doing anymore. But when Everton fight like they've just done tonight, then I won't be able to justify not going for much longer hopefully!
180 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:00:12
181 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:03:02
When he got the caretaker role I wasn't exactly over the moon. No one could have predicted this could they?
He's galvanised the team, is this a short term new manager bounce or could he be the real deal.
Given that Man Utd had beat Spurs and Man City, that performance for me today spoke volumes. The way we were set up, the way we didn't cower down to anything. The way we didn't wave a pathetic white flag with an injury-list excuse.
Is his work done for now or this the birth of EFC and Duncan Ferguson as our new manager? Who now would take Arteta over Ferguson for example?
I don't have the answers but right now it's Duncan's job till the end of the season for me.
182 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:03:38
Obviously Mr Ferguson knows Kean well, but I feel sick for the lad. I feel this could really damage him rather than motivate. Complete humiliation. Interesting to see see what develops with this one.
183 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:06:30
Prepare to welcome Moyes any day soon!
184 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:07:49
"Jay, come on, do you see Dunc as our permanent manager?"
You've usually got more commonsense and humour than that Andy.
I merely reported a completely harmless text from the BBC report. Not lobbying for, or endorsing, Duncan's candidacy for the post.
185 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:12:35
I thought we did well in the second half and might have got another on, especially if Iwobi had been brave enough to get the ball across to the galloping Calvert-Lewin, what a game he had, along with Holgate, but, to be honest, most of the team fought hard for that well-deserved draw.
I don't know the reason why Moise Kean was taken off, what I do know is Niasse helped to keep possession and get some throw-ins, which helped us to keep the clock ticking down to the final whistle.
Four points out of the last two games, which many on here didn't expect us to get. Carry on for now, Duncan, it couldn't have gone much better.
186 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:13:45
It's the 19-year-old rookies that this side of ours need to be cherishing, not making a fool of. How do you know he wasn't suffering from the sickness bug, and that's why he was (supposedly) not up to scratch?
I mean why put him on if you want someone to put a shift in? Tosun was there... he would have ran his balls off.
187 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:13:49
You clearly don't like Duncan Ferguson because he used to bully defenders??
Strange logic, I admit his legendary status was well overcooked but on his day he was a superb striker and gave Evertonians someone too look up to when all we had was dross, he is galvanising the fanbase and a skeleton of a team and getting us points, points on the board are what this game is about, remember?
You say his approach is unsustainable? How do you know? Really only time will tell us that won't it?
You call his handling of Kean as shit man-management, again only time will tell on how Kean responds. I will give the manager the benefit of the doubt every time when we are getting points. Let's hope the big bully bullies his team into bullying Leicester off the park in the cup game eh? It's only for the short term though most probably so I'm sure you will get over it.
188 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:14:52
189 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:14:57
Roll on to Wednesday!
190 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:16:06
Ferguson has done very well to create a special sort of atmosphere for the players. To get a point with such a patched up team is impressive – especially against a very potent attack. Hopefully Dunc will be in charge for those games for those 3 and the away game at Newcastle.
New Year, who knows? Dunc is doing well enough now to give him the rest of the season a park the permanent appointment till summer 2020 when the choice on offer will be better.
191 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:17:15
Still early days but I can see him having a tremendously positive impact on the team he loves, something that has been missing from the team for decades. If he continues getting results, he must be in line to keep the job until the summer, then see who is available. By then, he may've become the obvious choice, hopefully.
192 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:20:04
193 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:21:01
No point 'keeping it in house' after such a public admonishment.
Anyway... it's churlish to dwell on this.
194 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:22:21
Ferguson is motivating these lads to run themselves into the ground.
Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were outstanding. I did feel sorry for Kean but there is no room for passengers under Duncan.
For me Pickford should have done better with the shot. He looked very iffy all game.
Kev 180. Nothing wrong with Pie and Mash after years of paying over the odds for foreign muck.
195 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:23:08
196 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:26:15
How is that bad management? I aint saying I want Ferguson in charge but these players have had how many the sack, big wages or not there playing for Everton Football Club and the least that is expected is 90 minutes of hard work giving the opponents nothing they don't create themselves.
4 points from 2 big clubs and no argument for the effort and work that has been put in over them 2 games. Mounting injuries as well I don't think we could ask for much more and hopefully it continues.
197 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:26:19
None of these critics have a clue what Duncan asked Kean to do when he went on. If he wasn't doing as he had been told then it was right to pull him off.
At the end of the season what would you all say if we had been relegated by one point?? Would you have been happy that Kean was kept on regardless and possibly led to us losing 2-1?
Duncan has to do what he thinks is right to get the best result. He can and no doubt will talk to Kean about this and one would hope explain why he did this.
We need points – not accolades for being nice people.
198 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:30:26
Holgate and Calvert-Lewin were my standout players but hats off to the oldies - Bainsey and Coleman. Two men who showed they still have it when called on.
I'm not calling for Dunc to be named manager, just yet, let him carry on game by game but please sweet Jesus, have someone lined up in case it all goes sour.
199 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:33:41
It is easier at the match to note this instead of the camera following the action.
If this was the case then he had no option, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Iowbi were holding the ball up, even Niasse when he came on chased and closed players down.
Has anyone had a look at the midfield we had to put out today? Those above players brought a little rest bite to our midfield.
I am sure had we had a midfielder on the bench, then Davies would have been rested near the end. We didn't so had to swap a striker for another striker, to run the clock down.
With the others challenging, tackling and holding the ball up, he took the right player off in my opinion.
I would have preferred Dunc to say "You didn't put a shift in off the ball, I need players closing opponents down."
Had he said that then most on here would be backing Dunc's decision.
200 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:33:55
Made up and a shame we didn't quite see out the game for the win, but all in all, injuries considered, it's been an outstanding week.
The club is getting the pride back and the players are playing for the shirt.
Leicester is gonna be a tough game, but I believe we can beat them.
201 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:38:20
How to treat a player? Yes, it's okay, it's Duncan, and I like Duncan... but that call may prevent any permanent position as manager at this club.
It was embarrassing to watch that and yes, all the players would have taken note. Well done on a well-earned point today.
202 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:39:15
How Arteta is a better candidate than Ferguson, I will never know? "Because he has worked with Pep" is a nonsense answer.
203 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:41:57
I know many say Duncan isn't tactically aware well he has played a system of 4-4-2 which none of the last 4 managers have tried, and is getting success from this system. What we know is with Ferguson in charge these players will have to give 100% and nothing below that will be tolerated. The Kean substitution made that abundantly clear, that message has gone out loud and clear to everyone at the club.
I also think that maybe Silva didn't deserve all the responsibility for our poor showing, and our Director of Football should in my opinion have gone as well. He bought Kean, Iwobi and Bernard – all a complete waste of money.
Remember those critisizing Duncan for his subbing of Kean, Silva pulled him off after only 45 minutes in a league game, so maybe Kean isn't learning the lesson. I am sure, if there is a next time for Kean under Ferguson, we will see a different approach, unless he doesn't want to be here, in which case, come January, he will have gone back to Italy.
204 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:44:52
The lad gets a lot of money, I imagine; he owes us at least some effort.
205 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:45:20
Kean needed to come on and carry on in the vein of Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin. He needed to pressure, harry and run the United defence. He needed to track back whenever United broke forward. He needed to be a running, jumping, jostling nuisance.
Apart from picking the ball up near the halfway line a couple of times and clumsily throwing himself into one tackle, he contributed fuck all and wandered around aimlessly in a vital period of the game when his teammates who, Baines apart, had been on from the first whistle continued to work their plums off. Apparently he had 9 touches, won none of the five ‘duels he was involved in and completed one pass in the 19 minutes he was on the pitch. Unfortunate for him personally that he was subbed back off, but as the least effective and least involved at that point then he cant have too much complaint at being pulled.
People have continually tried to make out we have a future world-beater on our hands on the back of a handful of past appearances for Juventus and him looking more out of place and bemused in a blue shirt than Charlton Heston did in fur budgie smugglers after waking up on the Planet Of The bastard Apes. He may well have talent to burn but, so far, hes kept it well hidden and looked about as likely to spark as a cheap plazzy lighter plucked out the bog. Hes not shown anything of note to date to even begin to justify the hype or transfer fee paid. Yet people continually clamour for him to start games, or come on off the bench and complain and bleat when hes subbed back off after making no impact whatsoever.
Gobshites like Andy Gray (who put adding a few zeros on his Sky contract above Everton) saying “You could have given him a rollocking from the touchline and told him to get moving a little bit more but I don't know why he's done that. If someone like Mourinho, Klopp or Guardiola had done that we would be thinking 'why has he done that? But these guys are experienced coaches and there would be a reason. Even those guys wouldn't have just blanked him”. Well, saying Ferguson could have bollocked Kean and told him to get moving more suggests..err.. you didnt think he was moving enough? You just said you dont know why he did it, which is exactly the fucking same as wondering ‘why did he do it? if any of the aforementioned trio had actually done it, and he obviously had a reason, even if you cant fathom it, rather than just pulling Keans number out of an envelope randomly, you cave troll from The Lord Of The Rings looking sexist arl relic.
If thats not bad enough you then have compassionate ex-redshite John Arne Riise showing the caring nature that runs through the core of all Kopites like pollution-ridden seaside place names through a piss-ant stick of rock: “Sometimes in football you have to think about the human part. He's destroying this young boy's confidence. He doesn't even shake his hand. He's a young boy - give him a hug. You don't do that. It doesn't matter how important the game is you have to think about the person."
No, not for me. During the final period of a vital Premier League game with Everton hovering just above the relegation places and needing every point they can to drag themselves out of the shit, the sole thing on the managers mind should be securing the result for the club and the travelling fans, nothing else. The fragilities of an individual players confidence or the effect an ear-pull might have on their ego should be a distant consideration. At that stage its all about game-management, not man-management.
Kean isnt in desperate need of ‘a hug to kickstart his Everton career, he merely needs to pull his head out of his arse, exhale the smoke prematurely blown up there and take a long hard look at the sort of effort and performances his much maligned contemporary Calvert-Lewin has been putting in. Then he needs to show the determination and resolve to do the same, instead of taking the easy route of getting a titty-lip on and listening to those telling him he should feel so, so hard done by simply because his manager did what he thought was necessary to stop the opposition nicking three points at the death.
206 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:45:38
A very good point, with such a weakened squad. Holgate and Calvert-Lewin excellent. The back 4 all very solid. Richarlison a good shift. Hell, we were all good! Onwards and upwards!
207 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:46:01
208 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:47:27
209 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:49:01
We have been complaining for weeks about the lack of effort, poor tactics, and the manager standing on the line with his arms folded, wondering what to do next, so it is a refreshing change to have someone on the line with a game plan, expecting the players to contribute as asked.
After the game they showed a couple of occasions where Kean lost the ball in the Man Utd half and Ferguson was screaming at him to chase back, and Kean just strolled. Even the pundits in the studio reckoned Ferguson done the right thing in pulling him, and said, as a young 19-year-old, he has got to learn, and do what he is asked.
210 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:52:04
This is impressive stuff from Ferguson. Goodison should be on fire on Wednesday. There may be Christmas cheer yet.
The only black spot for me was the taking off of Kean. That will hardly do the lad any good, in fact it was embarrassing for him.
211 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:55:56
212 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:56:15
In 2 games, we have pride back. Brilliant job so far, Dunc!
213 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:11
As for comments on not being a Champions League side with him, blimey bit of a stretch to pin that one on Duncan. Onward to Wednesday and a raucous Goodison.
214 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:28
That game was there for the taking. We need a decent manager in there ASAP Arteta for me would be great. Yes, I love Duncan's passion but he's obviously not ready yet to be in charge. Come on Moshiri get this sorted.
215 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:40
Exactly, I really don't think anything more needs to be said. You said it all.
216 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:58:28
217 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:58:59
218 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:01:09
For those calling it harsh, here are the stats to back Dunc's decision.
Kean won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.
Niasse, in contrast, won 50% of his duels and did not lose possession once while making two tackles.
219 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:01:58
As for Kean, he needs his head kicking in if not trying or ignoring instructions. Hopefully Dunc gets him in the office and tells him straight that, if he can't shape up, then he gets shipped out.
A gentle headlock and swift smite to the forehead might just wake the pampered prince up.
220 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:02:43
Simple system and everyone putting in a shift. So so obvious and such a massive difference to Silva. Just get the players up for it and make it easy for them to understand. We do have decent players, just needs a manager to get the best out of them.
Calvert-Lewin got MotM but mine was actually Holgate by a margin. Playing at Old Trafford in (I believe) central midfield for the first time in the senior side and putting in such an assured performance. Really stepping up to the mark when needed.
They had some decent chances that they fluffed and var could have ruled out our goal but it's high time we got some luck our side.
Shame about Digne as he's going to be out for a couple of weeks and I worry about Baines being able to play 3 games in a week during the Xmas period. However, as always next game is the most important and I can't see Brenda not taking it seriously.
Still, great point today and 100% we would not have gotten 4 points from the last two games had Silva still been in charge.
Keep Dunc for now and take the necessary time to get a decent manager (and see if Dunc fancies it after a few games). No rush needed and please tell Moyes to get lost.
221 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:05:02
222 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:05:07
This was a proper performance, the type of committed display that has been absent for far too long. Of course it was not faultless, but with the players available, and the circumstances over recent weeks, it was magnificent. It fully justified some fist-pumping from the manager, someone about whom I have been critical in the past.
And if the manager decided to sub a sub for the greater benefit of the team, good on him. I feel a bit sorry for Kean – if you read Darren #100, Moise was probably wandering round thinking “Who the hell is Stacey F?”
223 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:06:21
224 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:07:39
A top manager understands the coaching of young talented players and experienced ones. If Everton are to get young talented players we must have a experienced manager to coach them and treat them accordingly.
225 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:08:18
Could have brought Gordon on, I was screaming for it. I feel for Kean but I hope he is man enough to take it on the chin.
226 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:09:31
227 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:09:35
228 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:10:35
Yes! The smack in the gob today, and on Wednesday the show of confidence ("go out and show them what you can do, lad").
229 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:11:09
230 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:12:32
"It wasn't because of Moise Kean's performance it was just because I needed to make a substitution to kill a bit of time," Ferguson told Sky Sports.
Well if it wasnt down to his performance why not bring Martina on for a knackered Richarlison or DCL.
231 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:13:18
My only complaint would be the treatment of the youngster.my only thought is hes upset the club in some way.
He did well in the short time he was on the field cut him some slack he has huge potential
232 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:13:27
233 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:14:00
Have a day off
234 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:14:47
In two games, theres already more memories than the last two years. First, a show of heart to beat Chelsea. Then drawing (almost winning) against Man Utd with 5!!! midfielders out and down two defenders! Honestly, who cares about the next manager? Who cares about Kean? Thanks to Duncan Ferguson for moments like these.
236 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:18:36
237 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:21:11
I thought the trio of Davies, Holgate and DCL were at the core of this performance. They have come through the under 23s together, understand each others play and fight for each other. They can be a big part of the clubs future providing they are as well managed as they are at the moment.
238 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:21:25
I think I need to back off Dunc now. You and I both wrote pieces celebrating him last week. I have been on this thread lamenting the return of the old Duncan and doing exactly what I talked about regretting.
You get what you see with him and four points from games we would likely have lost with Silva makes focusing on this sub today look churlish.
239 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:22:17
240 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:24:15
Thought Kean was subbed for not following instructions. When he originally came on, he went into the far wing. Richardson chase after him, to tell him to go into the central role. Obviously he had not listened or understood the instructions he was given by Duncan.
He will know to listen the next time, and so will other players.
The comments on Pickford on the Radio where not complimentary, poor concentration being the main problem
Duncan's interview for the Managers job is going well. It's Leicester at Goodison next. They will know that they will be in a game, that's for sure.
241 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:24:44
242 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:25:32
243 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:27:38
244 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:27:40
He should be super fit but maybe anxiety is destroying him.
If so, he needs an arm around the shoulder.
245 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:30:41
The lad hasn't been trusted by Silva or Ferguson. It has to be down to his attitude in training. When you see how Dunc reacted to the efforts of DCL last week, you see that he appreciates hard graft.
I don't think Ferguson was trying to look clever, he was just desperate for us to hang on to the precious point or nick all three. Kean was jeopardising the plan. He came off in disbelief and looked rather sulky. For me, it's tough-titty. He needs to knuckle down and show his boss and his teammates that he wants to work hard.
246 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:33:59
Then DF did everything correct for me
1- He took him back out of a team totally depleted with injuries fighting to hold a draw ( all hands on deck )
2- He did manage to waste some time
3- He didnt give the Sky vultures the story they wanted (by claiming the timewasting ) it will I hope be dealt with in the dressing room
As above if Mourinho did same it would be managerial genius, 4 Great points but still beside the drop zone, I had believed and stated well over 3 months ago that Silva was hurting the club and should have been removed
Roll on Wednesday I for one fancy it COYB,
247 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:35:32
He has been brave enough to make his own decision on what he has seen and how he wants to play the last couple of minutes.
Niasse is a very unpredictable player and maybe he thought with the pressure we were under he just might cause a few different problems to bring us the win.
Yes it could deflate the confidence of Kean, but also it will show him what is required to get a place in the team.
Very brave decision which shows Duncan is his own man and possibly shows he has the makings of a great manager.
248 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:36:13
249 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:38:31
250 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:40:18
251 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:41:49
252 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:43:44
Weve seen lots, if not most in blue underperform massively under 4 managers now and theres been loads of wailing and gnashing of teeth on TW about it. Players who havent been seen to put the effort in have been derided and vilified. Justifiably so in some cases.
As I see it, Dunc has drawn a line and it doesnt matter who you are, what you cost or where you play, if you dont try your utmost to do whats asked of you, if you disregard your instructions or simply arent able to follow them, then you get hooked.
This is a fantastic development and I salute him. Dunc has given us back our fight and is giving us back our pride. Im so looking forward to being in Goodison on Wednesday night to see him lead us out.
Nil satis nisi optimum.
253 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:53:36
On a different note. I read all the post from the first to last. I am amazed when I realize that many early posters are actually posting while the game is being played, I have been watching Everton for over seventy years and I will admit that I watch every game in a state of total ANXIETY whether we are winning or losing.
Watching the game live is usually easier for me than watching on TV. When watching on TV I have the option of leaving the room, which I often do when the tension just gets too much. However I just couldn't imagine typing or giving my written words during a game. The only emotion I can give into is screaming at the TV or giving unasked for advice to any player who dares to make a mistake. I am also likely to tell anybody who is with me watching the game that they are brilliant or stupid, depending on whether they agree with me or not.
I am baffled to think that some fans are able to actually say during the game,"Oh I must post TW to tell them that that last tackle deserved a card or that So and So should never put on a Blue shirt again"
I strain my nerves for ninety minutes to watch a game and it takes me a full week to be ready for the next one. In a strange way I enjoy the anxiety but only my mouth works once the game starts. My fingers become far too numb to type. MInd you my wife thinks that me and my fanatical Evertonian sons are nuts and in need of counselling.
254 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:57:53
255 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:58:46
With regards our next manager, Dunc still says he is not ready, it should be a world class appointment and should be brought in deliberately to mentor Duncan. I think it would be worthwhile to clarify this in the new manager's first press conference with it being stressed that he is here for...say three years and it will be Dunc that will be the next Everton manager. Stability achieved, no more uncertainty.
I want Dunc to eventually be our longest serving manager, with a wealth of experience gained from these next few years, bringing trophies and premierships to this club.
We can live in hope!
256 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:01:04
What we bought imo was a raw kid who finished a few chances playing in a side that creates chances for fun.
Were a struggling side and there is nothing to suggest Kean will create a goal out of nothing or produce a bit of magic, a poorer version of Lukaku without his goals and nothing to suggest why a big price was paid for him.
258 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:01:20
Might be worth also showing him similar situations on video where other players did do what they were supposed to during the game.
Then explain to him that the team, the club, the result, is everything.
It's then up to him to decide if he wants to work hard and succeed, or sulk and go somewhere else.
All this can be done cordially and professionally but the message still needs to get across that you follow the managers plan or you don't play.
That, to my mind, is as simple as Duncan has made things for the players for the last two matches.
Minimum requirement is maximum effort!
259 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:02:40
260 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:05:12
261 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:09:09
I fear he's going to be a disappointment and considering the hype, I thought it was suprising that Juventus let him go in the first place.
In his defence he's young, probably doesn't know what a days work is, which is not his fault I know, he's also in a foreign country with a different lingo. Add the joy of a north west in winter when youve come over from sunny Italy.
He now needs to get his head down and show what he can do.
262 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:11:09
That's exactly how it was described on the radio. I thought it a bit unusual that Kean did not know where he was playing. You seen it yourself at the game.
One poster who was behind the dugout clearly heard Duncan repeatedly telling Kean to stay forward in Centre forward role and not to track back.
Duncan imo wanted a high attacking line, so as to keep United from giving support play to their midfield and attack. Kean was not doing that and could have cost Everton the game. Duncan unlike Silva will not hesitate making a decision. No means no when Big Dunc says it.
He has high emotional intelligence under pressure.
He had to come off and will learn a valuable lesson. He may not be match fit either, but he was brought on to make a impact, so no excuses.
Needs to knuckle down.
Haven't seen how Holgate played. yet. He is a far better footballer than Keane and Mina stats wise. Glad he was given a chance to play in the League Cup. Which was a stoke of luck for Everton in hinsight.
263 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:22:23
Another Lookman or Barkley ? It does seem that we haven't been able to get the best out of youngsters since Koeman - that has lingered.
A bit like Lookman, I feel we've barely seen him play which is a shame.
I'm sure his mum is delighted.
I'm backing Ferguson though, having players swan around like the club doesn't matter is getting old.
264 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:24:55
265 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:25:51
It would appear the club did/does indeed have a clue.
266 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:02
The media would praise it and call it putting the team first. Because it is Ferguson the ex hard case pro with no brain (as so many seem to think) its no big thing for the media to praise.
They would rather comment on him taking his jacket off.
Glad there is a few above showing more concern about Pickford too. He is an accident waiting to happen every week.
267 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:55
Sell him, get Forster in and move on from this clown.
268 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:58
Also, I only heard the first half on radio (watched the 2nd), but the commentators were talking about how bitterly cold it was and how Dunc was the only man in the stadium not wearing an overcoat. Then, when it started to lash freezing rain, Dunc took his suit jacket off. 💪
Im going all-in on the Cult of Personality with Dunc. Make him accept the job.
269 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:31:36
270 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:31:54
Agree with John Daley about Kean, although I believe he has enormous potential, he just hasnt shown enough whatsoever (fantastic to have you back posting by the way, been pretty fucking drab on here of late!). its make or break, sink or swim for Kean. Hes a big powerful boy with holes in his game but, as yet, he hasnt put himself about, hasnt looked like he is working on anything and has looked jaded and unprepared. Hopefully Duncan “ripping a strip” by subbing him is the making of him, or he could take the easy way out and go to a club in a slow league who dont need him to graft. Stay and prove us wrong young man.
271 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:36:43
272 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:37:34
273 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:38:08
I can Imagine Duncan, sitting down with Kean tomorrow, and telling him that he was also a young footballer, who never always worked hard enough, and has regretted it ever since.
“It might have been bad what I did to you yesterday son, but trust me, it might just turn out the best thing that anyone has ever done for you, even if you dont feel like this is the case now. Go and prove me wrong Moise, but because I already believe in you, Id prefer it if you proved me right”!
By the way Darren, Im glad youre okay mate because some of your mates were getting worried about you.Honest!
274 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:38:30
0 shots, 9 touches of the ball, won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.
275 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:48:22
276 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:51:08
277 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:54:21
Where he can learn and improve - re-consider agreeing to a pitch side interview without a better answer to the obvious question.
This discussion may have different if he had said something like “I asked him to take up a different position, and tried to change things at the same time. It wasnt working and my job was to protect the point, at the very least. In hindsight, the communication wasnt good enough and that has to be on me. I hope Moise can accept that he was sacrificed for the good of the team”
As for the snub, it didnt look good, granted, but 2 points:
- I believe he did exactly the same to Richi last week
- couldve been much worse if Moise had reacted badly to him in front of the cameras (this is Duncan Ferguson we are talking about after all)
I suspect that the next week will tell us plenty
278 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:54:55
Ferguson is currently the manager of Everton FC and he made a decision to substitute the sub, Kean. He is being called a bully. What utter rubbish!
No one knows the reason, but I for one back the manager and trust him. Kean has made headlines at the club for all the wrong reasons. We've just completed 2 great performances following a season of unbelievable tripe. So enjoy it - and stop this senseless lambasting of our manager,
279 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:05:40
280 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:06:08
281 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:20:09
The Big man has yet to put a foot wrong for me to be honest, is only 2 games but what he has done said between games etc,
Almost surreal tbh
More of the same on Wed gents
282 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:24:39
283 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:24:46
Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson
284 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:27:00
285 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:28:16
286 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:37:23
Some have been feeling sorry for Silva saying how unlucky he was with injuries and decisions. Well we're having more injuries and performing. Regarding luck, well sometimes in football you make your own luck through hard work, effort and committment. Nobody can say Silvas 18 months showed more than Fergusons 2 games.
I think the boards biggest problem is not who will replace Ferguson but when he will replace Ferguson.
Maybe we need Ferguson for the next few games until we are clear of the bottom.
287 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:42:51
288 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:43:37
289 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:48:44
290 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:48:47
Ive asked did Koeman, Allardyce and Silva, say they only want the Everton job, if Duncan stays, and still think that it is very bizarre that a top club, have changed manager so many times, and yet still retained Ferguson as their first team coach?
Ive asked if Ferguson was something special, someone the club were afraid of losing, because why else would they have constantly retained his services? Although I never actually thought he would be given a chance, simply because he never looked like he did much, and the rumours were all about his nickname being BBC.
But, when Duncan, was given the job, I did say he could definitely give us more than David Moyes, simply because hes been a top player, (when he wanted to be) and he definitely has a lot more genuine affection for Everton, than Moyes has ever had.
I remember Moyes tearing a strip off Jesper Blanquist, who wasnt happy with being subbed, and I saw a similar thing today when Ferguson made a point of showing everyone that “the team” is well more important than hurting someones feelings, and I think that this is something that most Evertonians are going to really respond to over the next few days?
I think Duncan Ferguson has been part of an unprofessional culture, (jobs for the boys) that has been part of Everton, for way too long, but hes proving how much he loves our club, especially when he says that Everton, need the best manager in the world!
291 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:59:07
292 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:04:13
If young Moise Kean had any interest in being the future of this club, he should burst his gut for us, and get all the fans behind him. If he's not interested piss him off back to Italy, pronto.
In the situation we are in at present, I would rather have Niasse, who has been pissed about by almost everyone. He may lack class, panache, but gives everything for the cause. Who would you prefer in the trenches with you???
293 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:04:37
294 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:07:41
Kevin Kilbane was saying that Duncan is a very intelligent guy who is well versed in the game, as he should be after the years he's spent in various positions at the club. He appears to have that aura of respect that players will buy into, in other words he's a leader.
The only problem with that is you can't make him take the position if he still doesn't want it full time.
295 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:15:34
Maybe Duncan's done his badges, used his ex-player/'legend' status, kept quiet and is now taking his chance?
I hope so.
296 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:24:39
297 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:27:10
He is totally unproven as a manager.
At least Duncan now has some experience and has shown up very well thus far.
298 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:27:57
Duncan just needed a job to support his family and decided there was nothing else for it but to apply himself and knuckle down for who ever the Manager of Everton was. In the words of Shakespeare ' give thy thoughts no voice' Duncan never give a opinion on those around him always concentrating on his job, trying to learn and get better at it over years.
The result is the mentally tuf, motivational, tactically astute, adaptive and authoritative leader that is Duncan Ferguson today. Duncan eats, drinks and sleeps Everton and will never expect any favours.
Moyes allowed Duncan initially to work, on his request, for nothing and then gave him a coaching job on the lowest rung of the coaching ladder. Then Duncan's years of apprenticeship started.
299 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:35:31
300 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:39:20
He says Duncan has high emotional intelligence when under pressure, and although I think its a bit premature to already come to this conclusion, its definitely something that is such a vital commodity, something that definitely separates winners from losers, and its a gift that very few people truly possess.
Id bet that Duncan knows more than anyone that he could have done a lot more with his career, and now he knows hes going to be taken seriously, I wonder what hes thinking now!
301 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:43:51
302 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:13:53
303 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:18:05
When Kean came on we were in the lead. Yet 7 minutes later we concede a goal.
DF looked at what was on the pitch over the next 10 minutes and perhaps saw one of them wasn't battle hardened nor ready and wanted an out ball that would disrupt the opposition.
I am not for one minute saying Kean had anything to do with us being 1-1 but I am saying DF took the decision to secure a much needed point and put on the far more experienced Niasse.
304 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:22:00
No-one will ever know what Duncan is thinking. Yesterday Everton where down to the barebones of a squad and today it got worse for a game at Old Trafford. Duncan just carried on with the job and never made any excuses. The only excuse he is making is for Kean, but it will be different when he talks to him tomorrow at Finch Farm.
305 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:24:38
Ferguson probably isnt a managerial genius but hes taken four points from top of the leagues top teams at a time when we badly need them. For me, the substitution showed strong management. Ferguson has also worked with Kean for months and I find it likely that his decision today was based on his overall knowledge of the player and not just what happened in those 18 minutes.
We now have Leicester in the Carabao Cup followed by Arsenal, Burnley, Newcastle and Man City on New Years Day. Five games in fifteen days. For me, Ferguson hasnt quite earned the job til the end of the season yet, but I would advocate giving him those games to see what he can do.
306 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:30:42
“It does seem that we haven't been able to get the best out of youngsters since Koeman - that has lingered.”
You don't think that Holgate, Davies, and Calvert-Lewin were central to that performance?
Andy Crooks and George, I'd usually think of you as sensible measured contributors. Two games with half a squad against top 6 sides yielding 4 points after what we've had to suffer since August and you're obsessing about an 88th minute substitution? Dunc had every right to make that call.
I've played in goals for 30 years and been a critic of Pickford in the recent past but he can't be blamed for that goal today. It was a fine disguised finish.
For me, Mason was our MotM.
307 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:36:24
Loved the appreciation of the travelling Evertonians at the end and the nod to the directors. Passion, one of us, that will do for me, give it to him now!
308 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:41:02
I don't consider this a minor incident. He can't explain this one away, though he has made a feeble attempt.
309 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:41:23
310 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:47:16
311 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:50:41
312 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:02:20
All gesture, no substance. Duncan Ferguson.
313 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:08:05
314 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:13:05
This is not the first time someone has been re-subbed and it won't be the last and lets be honest it wasn't as though we were coasting to a victory, this was a very high pressure situation where we needed everyone to be on their mettle to hold on to a point.
So either this genuinely was a tactical sub because Dunc wanted a bit more physical presence to hang on for the final 5 and to waste some time OR he didn't think Kean's attitude/performance was right and he hooked him (the latter seems more realistic tbh). Either way it was his decision to make as manager and he made it - we held on for a point and a multi-millionaire footballer got 5 minutes less than he would've done otherwise.
Ferguson will know the player (and his attitude) very well from being the forward coach and if he intended to have an impact or make a point (which I think he did) he'll understand what it is better than we do. The fact that Kean walked on his own to the changing room rather than going to the bench is hardly an illustration of a great attitude in itself and we need players who are going to give their heart and soul for the club if we're to push on.
None of this is to demonise the young Italian, we know he is a real talent and he's shown in flashes what he could bring to the team despite not having too much time to show what he can do.
That said he hasn't exactly blown the roof off the place and he did genuinely seem a bit off the pace in this game, so maybe he needs more time to acclimatise.
Or just maybe this was a bit of reverse psychology to get Moise chomping at the bit to prove a point over the next few matches?
315 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:18:43
Give him a pick and shovel and the poor wee soul would know what earning a living is like in the real world. That's what happens when you give too much, too soon to young lads, they are not hungry and without hunger to succeed, you have nothing.
316 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:19:52
I also remember hearing Mourhino talking about him. Not long ago, he remained unconvinced about him and in particular the lack of a buy back clause in his contract. Time will tell.
He does strike me as being very petulant. I hope he does live up to expectation.
317 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:22:45
If it was purely tactical, he would have at least given the kid a consoling pat on the back when he went off rather than ignoring him. Proof right there that it was done in a fit of pique. Hopefully Kean will learn from it as will Duncan.
318 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:30:54
It was a fine show from the coach and players, otherwise. Duncan Is an adversity coach. Is he a Champions League coach? Who knows.
319 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:31:37
Kean; and he doesn't seem to be, what with 2 lots of lateness, is shaping up...If not stopped early...into a Balotelli mini-me.
Silva who was desperate for a goal, for anything, seemed loath to put him in...why was that?
Brands and Ferguson should have a quick pow wow and agree on a course of action.
First off...as he's Brands high profile signing, he's in Brands Office for a severe arse kicking.
(This having been pre-decided) He apologises to The Coach, asks and is granted forgiveness. Arm around the shoulder and a new start (aka, last chance) Vs Leicester or who ever.
320 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:33:53
321 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:43:48
322 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:57:15
323 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:07:29
Chris #314, spot on.
324 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:14:42
the 1st person to compare with Balotelli, same thoughts had crossed my mind, at the time I was gutted for the lad, but you have to see it through the eyes of the manager,who, is tasked with getting something out of the game, which the big man achieved.
The ideal outcome going forward would be to see Moise Kean start against Leicester & put a shift in, like the 11 that did so at OT, we'll see...
Slightly off topic of the thread, I look at today's premiership & rue what a great opportunity we have missed as a club, Utd Arsenal Chelsea Spurs are all "catchable" this season for the first time in years, if we had appointed a coach 3-4 years ago with the calibre better than the likes of Martinez, Koeman, Silva etc etc, we could now be where Leicester are sitting.Let that thought sink in.
This league is average at best, besides two teams, the money we have blown just makes me despair, are we just unlucky or piss poor at getting it right when it matters...
325 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:23:35
326 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:28:07
327 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:36:46
328 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:39:38
329 Posted 16/12/2019 at 03:33:09
1.) If we're able to bring in a manager we really rate
2.) If we doubt his ability to safely steer the ship
The first point is debatable. Ancelotti would clearly be a major statement, but I question the fit. Arteta is intriguing, but a gamble. None of the other names mentioned particularly excite me. Gallardo would have been the best choice IMO, but it looks like he's out of the running.
As for the second point, I have zero doubt. This isn't close to a relegation squad, so all Ferguson needs to do is continue inspiring commitment and effort. And as far as a "safe set of hands" goes, the notion that Moyes could have produced today's performance is absolutely laughable. The guy couldn't produce a point at Old Trafford when he was MANAGER OF UNITED.
330 Posted 16/12/2019 at 04:44:47
He seemed to be giving him a chance and even some of the players were gesturing towards him trying to put him straight, but he was wandering all over the place and when he failed to hold up a simple ball which bounced off him Lukaku style, and never chased it, I think that was the last straw.
I remember Moyes in one of his early games hooked Hibbert, who reacted with a rant but was put in his place, then won his shirt back.
Even Dunc had a spat with Moyes and was banned from the training ground for a week or so, and maybe he remembers this lesson and knowing Kean better than us lot, is applying the same psychology. The way he sauntered off towards the tunnel and not to the bench with his team mates says a lot about his attitude: he's been here a while now and for me, has done nothing to warrant a place in the team, even moaning about wanting to return to Italy.
What we don't need now we have this team spirit back, is a bad apple sowing discord in the ranks, and I couldn't care less if he goes back to Italy this week, we've been doing well without him.
331 Posted 16/12/2019 at 05:15:01
I went to the Excelsior as the match started, and felt although we were down to the bare bones, that we carried on like an extension of the team that had outplayed Chelsea the weèk before.
Okay, it was a fortuitous goal off the hapless Lindelof, but it set the tone of the game. There were two RS supporters next to me, oddly enough from Liverpool, and I heard them say, Everton are playing well, and unrecognizable from the previous showings.
At that point, I made it known I was Blue, and deep down felt proud to declare that allegiance, which is something I have not felt for a long time, long may it continue.
I am old enough to remember and attended many games when Howard Kendall Mk 1 was the Manager. Maybe it's early days, but I would seriously consider Duncan for the post. What other man could produce such paradoxical performances from virtually the same set of players?
Strange substitution? Yes, very, no doubt all will be revealed soon on that one, but Niasse did even less than Moise Kean. As someone mentioned before, maybe he is a young version of Balotelli, but I do see something in the lad that I like and hope that, whatever the problem is, it gets resolved.
332 Posted 16/12/2019 at 06:16:52
If it happens then it is a feather in each of their caps and if it doesn't then it is a problem for Mr Brands.
333 Posted 16/12/2019 at 06:30:44
Kean won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.
Niasse, in contrast, won 50% of his duels and did not lose possession once while making two tackles - as many as centre-back Michael Kean
334 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:21:18
335 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:25:34
336 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:29:51
Duncan has brought back so much pride and belief amongst Evertonians, it is almost unbelievable, who'd have thought that a couple of weeks ago!
337 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:34:31
Leon Osman was talking about Dunc's leadership 'skills' saying that (paraphrasing) when he tells you he wants you to do something, you better have done it, and had a pained look on his face.
I guess that's why the players are playing out of their skins for him as opposed to 'nice guy' Marco.
338 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:32:00
When he left, down they went, with the same team. I think those who say this approach is outdated need to think about what we need to get up there to where we belong before we get too concerned about possession stats.
I'd like to see this team up against another fighting team before making too many positive comments, but if we get a result there then our Ferguson is setting the minimal standard for who comes next, perhaps himself. We go from there.
339 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:43:27
As for Kean the BBC stats as shown by Ron 333 says its all, if your not playing to instructions or being sloppy in possession then you deserve to be hooked, I am sure Dunc will sit down with the lad and explain whats required and if he cant buy into to it then “arrivederci!”
340 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:57:13
No Baningimine (even for the bench)
Digne forced off after 20 mins
Let that sink in...
And then appreciate what the heroic players and Dunc achieved yesterday. It is nothing short of miraculous!
Regarding the Kean incident, when one of the substitutions has been forced on the team due to injury, and you are called on as a tactical subsitute, that is an absolutely HUGE responsibility, you better make sure that you follow the coachs instructions 100% and you put in your best effort. I agree with those who say that it is now up to Kean to show what he is made of - he either puts his head down and works his nuts off, or he moves on, knowing that he wasted more than 28 million of a Clubs hard earned money.
341 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:04:30
342 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:11:04
Or good management, perhaps, if it gets Kean to either listen to and follow instructions (if that was the problem) or to put in greater effort (if that was the problem) - or both. Who knows. We'll see. For now, Duncan is the judge of that.
343 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:17:08
344 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:25:24
I was at the match and after 5 mins a few around me could tell he something wasn't right with the lad - body language, no tackles and drifting all over the place. He made one decent run with the ball and when he'd lost it he looked as though he was fucked - heaving for breath and clearly uncomfortable.
Big call by Dunc - and for those moaning at him - what do want? A manager prepared to make the big calls and influence the game or one who just hopes?
What was the score again?
By the way I hope Keane learns and recovers - but it's up to him.
345 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:27:04
If, in order to do what is best for the club, he upsets a few players - many of whom are long-term under performers - then so be it. Sends a clear and long overdue message to the rest of the squad.
Had the likes of Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Jurgen Klopp subbed Moise Kean after 18 mins the press and pundits would have been full of praise for their astute management ( I recall Mourinho subbed 3 Chelsea players before half time).
However most of these commentators were expecting Duncan to fail spectacularly and seem unable to give him the credit he is currently deserving.
346 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:44:22
“Sheedy mysteriously left” to take a very well paid job in Saudi (I think it was) and get some financial security. There were all sorts of rumours, arent there always, but Sheedy himself dismissed them as rubbish.
347 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:48:53
This great game is all about opinions, so you will never please all the people all the time.
With big wages comes big responsibility, true in any type of work.
What I'm saying is, if you can't handle the responsibility, then don't take the money.
Everton have been pandering to snow flakes for 20 year's - look where it gets you.
A breath of fresh air is Duncan in a sea of clip board coaches who talk too much and confuse their players with their waffling.
Just seen City's 3rd goal v Arsenal - Arsenal need to make a sub so they get some kid off the bench, who then proceeds to remove about 10 layers whilst some boring bloke with a clipboard and headset talks shit in his ear, this takes that long that the game has restarted and City promptly smash their 3rd in whilst Arsenal are down to 10 men. Pretentious nonsense, all for show.
If you're listening in training and actually interested in the game, then you should know what you have to do and what's expected.
The best manager any of us have seen kept things simple and crystal clear, and was universally feared, do it how he wants it or you are gone.
His name was Ferguson too.
Back the manager, he's been dropped in at the deep end because of the heirachys abject failings and is only seen as a stop gap by them until their pretentiousness gets the better of them and they slide another no mark suave boy in again or Cardigan Dave!
The big fellas doing a great job, what he needs is our complete support, not snow flake criticism and perhaps, just perhaps a long term solution is under our noses. Oh, and 1 point more than the corresponding 2 fixtures of last season.
348 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:51:09
Some folks really do need to get a grip on reality.
349 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:51:29
Niasse had an immediate impact, in the way only he can, and he certainly gave the Utd. defenders something to think about in a way Kean hadn't.
Duncan did absolutely the right thing and, in doing so, sent a clear message to the players that whilst he's in charge they obey his instructions.
It's now up to Kean whether he buys into this, or not. If not, show him the door.
A big shout out to Holgate who was superb in an unfamiliar position and all the others who really put a shift in.
350 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:52:33
351 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:01:17
- 4-4 draw in 2012,
- 0-1 win in 2013 under Martinez,
- 1-1 draw in 2017 under Koeman when Zlatan scored a last minute penalty to equalise.
(Before then we have to go back to 2005 for Moyes' lads to come away with a draw showing just how terrible his record was).
As a matter of interest, from that Koeman draw, when we were hoping to bridge the gap to 6th, it's amazing how many of that team played just 30 months later:
- Mason Holgate at Right back
- Leighton Baines at Left back
- Tom Davies at central midfield
- Dominic Calvert-Lewin came on as a late substitute.
Back to Duncan being criticised, despite doing a sterling job, and getting results, does this not show you how easy it is for the manager to come under fire? Just imagine this was Benitez? It does not take much does it? Managers make judgement calls, it's easy with hindsight to criticise them. People can agree at the time and then have a pop at the decision afterwards.
352 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:05:33
The latter is what was needed and the bawling out when they got back in the Changing Room, or even better a private word at FF today. And with Duncan's accent and Kean's fluent Italian, maybe a translator would be needed.
353 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:13:09
354 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:20:38
355 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:25:39
ToffeeWeb has been replete with ASSUMPTIONS about DF. It's always remarkable how confident some folks are about their assumptions being reality. Usually misplaced confidence, but that doesn't stop the assumptions coming thick and fast.
356 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:45:53
Several of those candidates are 'Yesterday Men' anxious to inflate their pensions on the back of success ( or in the case of Moyes, lack of it ! ) achieved long ago. Others are 'names' who those who follow foreign football purport to have followed for years as they've worked their way across Europe's weaker leagues. Somewhat strangely, Portugal seems to throw up the most qualifiers on the basis that anybody, but anybody, seems able to win cups and championships in that sunny clime and then forget how they did it. All of which relegates the temporary incumbent to a very long odds bet in the staring line up !
Of course, recent appointments by those in charge have indicated almost total ignorance of the qualities required in an Everton manager and most of us 'ordinary fans' would back their own inclination to give 'The Big Man' at least until the end of this season to stake his claim. They, and we, owe him that much if only for the blatant joy he has brought us over the last few days !
357 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:59:08
358 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:24:49
359 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:24:53
Just seems with us sitting just above the relegation zone and if Ferguson hadnt got 4 points from 2 games we would have been in the relegation zone. So this window could be critical for us, so I would suggest the board make a decision to leave Ferguson in charge till the end of the season, or appoint the full time manager and let him or Ferguson have a limited amount of money to spend on players they want.
360 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:26:37
Duncan puts Moise Kean on, and nineteen minutes later, realises he's probably made a mistake, and takes him off, putting Niasse on for the last five minutes (which included added time), and people on here go ballistic.
Imagine if it was Niasse that Duncan put on instead of Kean? People on here would have been going ballistic, saying why has he put Niasse on instead of Kean? The big fella was in a no win situation here. I was at the game yesterday and didn't hear one Everton fan moaning about Kean being hooked. I was far more happy with the result than worrying about Moise Keans feelings.
The big man has clearly got a reaction from the players in these last two games, taking four points from six from two of the so called big six teams, and he's only doing what he thinks is best for the team, and if that means substituting a substitute, then so be it.
361 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:53:21
I believe we should trust Ferguson's judgement on this, but we should also back the player and offer support. It is possible to do both.
362 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:59:45
In terms of Dunc, well look I'm Scottish and I've always loved him and what he has given back to us in the last couple of weeks has been brilliant. I was emotional watching the Chelsea game and I loved it at the end yesterday, although I did have to remind myself it was a draw. The celebrations were about more than that though, it was about having our Everton back. I hope we keep him in some capacity to be our manager in the longer term.
However, as much as I love the big man, hes not the long term answer. I have no issue with the Kean sub because, and I have been desperate for him to do well since he signed and hope he still does, bottom line his performance was not good enough. When we are 1-1 away at Old T, under pressure and down to the bare bones we need everyone knocking their pan in and Kean quite simply wasnt. He wasnt terrible just not working hard enough. So in that respect it was a good decision.
The poor part was not talking to the boy when he came off. Didn't have to be a big explanation but at least an acknowledgement to the lad to try and limit his embarrassment.
My hope is we sign Ancelotti! I keep hearing hes not the right fit. Why? Because he doesn't 'get us'? Pish!! Hes a manager of the highest, highest calibre and is exactly what we need in terms of style and substance. We have done well over the last couple of games with an increased work rate due to the Dunc effect but taking my blue tinted specs off we have rode our luck a bit. Nothing wrong with that and long may it continue but as much as I love Dunc, Ancelotti is the man for me, get him in asap, keep Dunc learning and watch us go!! Hopefully Ancelotti will be able to bring Kean round as I think him and DCL could be great up top!!
363 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:13:29
"I understand there are a lot of unhappy
fans at Moise being substituted off so quickly after coming on. We needed fresh legs, it was as simple as that. Nothing personal at all.
Posted at 11.45am
He then sent a further message at 11.48:
"He will pick himself back up and come back stronger, we have already spoken this morning."
364 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:13:53
"knowing that he wasted more than 28 million of a Clubs hard earned money."
Yeah. I'm sure that will bother Kean. Not. I'm sure we'll soon be hearing from his old man saying how signing for Everton was the worst thing his son ever did. Looking back it was probably a mistake buying him the first place.
They bring on Greenwood who cost nothing and he promptly scores. We bring on Kean who cost millions. He does nothing and is promptly subbed. The difference? Greenwood is a young player looking to make a name for himself and become a first team player. Kean is a young player who thinks he has already made a name for himself and should be entitled to be a first team player because of it. Dunc has to disabuse him of this notion and take him back to basics. Commitment, hard work, running and plenty of sweat. He has to be made to realise that if he wants to be a first team player then he has to earn it. Personally I doubt he will and he'll eventually go out on loan and then be sold on at a no doubt big loss to the club.
Brands needs to be looked at because I have no doubt it was his decision to bring Kean in. We had a decent amount of money to spend on an established striker yet we chucked it away on an unproven teenager. Brands has been getting away with a lot but I have no doubt he currently bares a lot of responsibility for Everton's current woes. He's brought in some decent players. Digne, Yerry Mina is finally shaping up, Gomes is a top player, Bernard works hard but needs more goals. But he's also brought in some clunkers. Iwobi who was very expensive and doesn't appear to have a proper position in the side, the perma-crocked Delph who only plays one game in four if we're lucky and is no doubt on humongous wages, Lossl who isn't even making the bench and of course Kean who hasn't come anywhere near to living up to his reputation as an exciting young striker.
I think if Dunc eventually gets the job he will be butting heads with Brands a lot regarding what players to bring in because I doubt very much he would have brought in Kean if it had been up to him. This is why I don't think he'll get the job. He won't work with a DoF looking over his shoulder and he won't compromise on the type of players he wants and that will just cause more ructions at the club.
365 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:19:42
366 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:20:52
367 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:23:03
All that being said, I'm not about to cast aspersions on Ferguson when we don't know the whole story... and I struggle to buy the theory that some have voiced, which is that Dunc was simply puffing out his chest and trying to be the "big man." More likely it was some variation on Kean not following instructions, not showing 100% commitment, etc...
And thus, as others have said, it's now on Kean to step up his game and make good on his considerable potential. I had similarly high hopes for Lookman, but he never got his act together and now he's basically picking splinters out of his butt for Leipzig.
368 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:25:22
369 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:29:51
Kean had said lots in the press how he had learned from the mistakes of Balotelli and would not be making them himself.
However i've yet to see him play and show the type of energy and comitmment that DCL puts in almost every game.
I'd no issue with Duncan subbing him though I think he might have offered him a word of support or explanation at the time. Perhaps he didn't want to make a scene. Pretty harsh to humiliate a 19 year old from another country in a big televised match but I guess we will see from Kean's reaction what he is made of.
370 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:31:48
All the posters, who went to the game, seem to be in agreement that Duncan made the correct decision, that will do for me.
All those who went yesterday, give yourselves a large pat on the back, you were incredible, well you are always incredible, but you let the team know they were not on their own, out shouting and singing the huge home support. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
371 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:35:28
When you are a few minutes away from the end and cannot be relied on to do a job it speaks volumes about attitude.
He may be let go in January which is sad as he came with so much potential being touted.
Still, he wouldn't be the first flop at Goodison to do well elsewhere.
Everton need more striking power as we all know so perhaps changes are in the wind but the managerial situation has to be resolved first. Yes, they could have gotten all three points at Manure but just didn't have the werewithal up front to get the job done.
Still a lot of problems for Ferguson to deal with but 4 points in a week is a good start. It ain't gonna happen overnight and getting away from the ''bad zone'' is the first priority.
372 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:36:45
I trust the manager, no player is bigger than the manager and young Moise wasnt worrying about anyone when he was arriving late several days for training was he?
So why should we worry about him being unhappy at being subbed?
Its life, hes a young man but exactly that, a grown man, an adult, a footballer and it happens in football that hard decisions need making.
People have been overreacting massively, some of the garbage Ive read on various social media sites and the like about it being the worst thing ever to happen.
Im with Duncan Ferguson all the way, this is a leader of men, not a popularity contest, so any snowflakes need to man up.
For the record anyway, Kean seems to be a bit top heavy in my opinion, he looked knackered.
Maybe hes homesick, or maybe he just needs a different club in a slower paced league?
Maybe hell even come good here?
Who knows but really what happened yesterday compared to all the other terrible things in the world, its so insignificant.
373 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:41:30
Hes getting touted all over Italy if reports are to be believed(?)
It wouldnt be the first time a Raiola player started acting arsey at clubs would it? Lukaku, here and at Man Utd, ( although I think hes changed agents again) Pogba at Man Utd, off the top of my head.
Or maybe hes just a young man, a stranger in a strange land.
374 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:59:37
They just showed it from another angle on Ref Watch and if anything, the keeper jumps in to Dom
375 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:03:00
I suspect this wasn't in his plans a year ago, and now he's probably quite pissed off with the whole situation. Quite frankly, who can blame him?
While I agree it's the managers decision to make, what he should have done is have a word with Kean as he came off. Blanking him like that just made something out of nothing, and made the kid look like a berk.
376 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:18:54
Just checked in to see the Kean-Ferguson story still rolling on this thread, with some posts laced with the wildest assumptions.
Was it a 'sit up and take notice' moment? Of course it was! Bringing the kid on then hooking him within 18 minutes raised more than an eyebrow.
No one in this thread - absolutely no one! - is privy to the reasoning and thinking of the move by DF.
IMO the more fanciful assumptions that it was a super narcissistic egotistical game of showmanship by Ferguson is laughable.
Those saying he should have had a quiet word with Kean as he came off rather than blanking him evidently have no recall of a single Howard Kendall substitution. HK did the same ALL the time, in any game situation.
Why? Because he was so wrapped up in the 'now' of the game, still to be won or salvaged. The player subbed out was of no use to him and could not influence the game. The player subbed in and his other 10 team mates could, and that's who got HK's attention in such situations.
Live when it happened, when DF didn't give Kean as much as a 1st glance, nevermind a 2nd one, I nodded my head in acknowledgment to Ferguson. It reminded me of the HK trait described above. A trait also employed by Duncan Ferguson's namesake who prowled the Old Trafford touchline for nearly 3 decades.
Many a poster is choosing to see it primarily from Moise Kean's perspective. But what about Duncan Ferguson's perspective?
The easiest option for the manager, having brought Kean on just 18 minutes earlier, was to leave him on and hook another player.
I mean, hooking Kean could equally be interpreted negatively and reflect badly on the manager. Namely, it was an admission of guilt, of subbing in the wrong player at the wrong time in the wrong situation. To save face, DF could have left Kean on to avoid the issue altogether and hoping nothing critical resulted from it.
What Ferguson did was arguably bolder than that. He saw something that potentially risked Everton losing another goal and thus the match. Knowing that 5 minutes is a long time in football, Duncan was proactive in correcting that vulnerability.
He was courageous enough to correct his own perceived error in front of a live and global television audience of millions.
Rather than castigate and cast aspersions on the manager as some have chosen to do, if anything, that single act further enhanced Duncan Ferguson's credentials for me.
And that's before appreciating how for the second week running, against tough opposition, in exceedingly trying circumstances (mid to long term injuries, late sickness withdrawals overnight), the Big Man has got a performance and a result out of the team.
Finally, if yesterday was the worst thing that will happen to Moise Kean in his football career, or in his entire life, then he is going to be a very blessed individual.
377 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:31:10
We have heard little snippets about him being late for team meetings both here and when he's been on duty with the Italian under 21s. You cant do that and expect to get on.
I've no doubt that Ferguson will give the lad good advice, also some of our experienced players will no doubt have a wise word in his ear.
Whether that advice falls on stony ground or not, is up to Kean.
Come on Duncan take the job, you can do it.
378 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:45:38
You've eloquently articulated My very thoughts and done so thoroughly and completely. I tip My hat.
Other TW's really need to read that post, appreciate it and let it sink in.
Well said Jay.
379 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:49:18
380 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:54:27
Everton take on Leicester City in the Carabao Cup quarter-final on Wednesday in what could be Ferguson's final game in charge.
When asked if victory would be the ideal parting gift for the players to give the caretaker, Coleman said: "The thing about Duncan is, he doesn't want anything for himself. He wants it for us players, which is incredible. There's no ego.
"I spoke to him a couple of days ago. We've got a team manager parking space and there's no chance he'll park in it.
"It's not about him. It's never been about him. As players it's so refreshing to see. He's a great man and I can't speak highly enough of him to be honest."
I'm delighted that Duncan will be in charge on Wednesday and if it is to be his final appearance in the dug-out, I hope the fans in attendance can help his young warriors gain another scalp and make it to the last four of the competition.
381 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:20:29
He is our manager though, he is the reluctant, natural leader we and the players have been waiting for.
Its so obvious.
Its staring us right in the face.
Just tell him hes got another six games, that wont make him too nervous.
If that goes well, give him it till May.
He can do it. Hes just a bit nervous about it at the moment but hell get over that.
It will be an absolute crime if he is not in charge for the FA Cup game because that will scare them, not that they care about being in that much, but beating them, there, is very much needed for the sake of all football supporters everywhere.
382 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:36:28
383 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:42:10
That would actually make me look at myself and wonder why he has been that way to me. Especially when everybody else is motivated by the same boss!!!
384 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:43:43
In today's modern game with today's modern players, and subsequent social media frenzy, my point was that Ferguson could have avoided everything about this by simply having a very quick & quiet word in his ear as he came off.
Simple modern-day man-management. It's not the 1980's anymore. Sorry but your opinion on this is as outdated as the people you referenced. No offence meant.
A very brief interaction from the manager means this conversation never needed to happen in my view.
385 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:47:17
386 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:53:47
388 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:14:13
Thank you for the Duncan Link.
Big Funds response short and sweet and to the point.
389 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:19:11
390 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:21:22
I think Fergusons message is very simple if you stop working or stop following instructions whether you have been on for 19 minutes or 70 minutes then you will be subbed. A very clear message and I am sure everybody now understands this.
I wouldnt be surprised if Kean plays a part on Wednesday against Leicester and it will be his chance to show he has learnt his lesson, at least I hope he has.
391 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:33:03
Absolutely no offence taken James, but you have a very innocent view of the world if you think the 'subsequent social media frenzy' is in any way relevant or significant.
'Social media' and 'frenzy' is a natural collocation and constant bedmates. By its very nature it is largely superficial, reactionary and fleeting. Post-match comments in this very thread is evidence of this.
You are equally innocent and not a keen observer of top level football if you think Ferguson's actions belong exclusively to a bygone era and is not practised by other modern day managers.
Duncan Ferguson had a live decision to make, with the clock ticking, in a highly pressurised situation. He made that decision. His focus remained on the immediate task at hand.
There is ample time in the dressing room after the game, or at training during the week, to discuss with Kean in greater detail the rationale behind the decision.
But let's say, for the sake of discussion, it would have been better if the manager had, as you evidently prefer, 'a very brief interaction' with the player. Can you or anyone predict with absolute certainty how that may have panned out?
What if the player reacted petulantly or angrily, stoking the manager to respond in kind? And we all know just how fierily Duncan Ferguson can respond.
We could be looking at a Cantona Karate Kick situation today, rather than the 'manager blanks subbed out player' story that some - including yourself - are building a considerable mountain out of an insignificantly small molehill.
392 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:33:15
During various stages of his Everton career, Duncan's attitude and application was really poor. If he was up for it - unplayable. If he wasn't motivated or didn't care he was shite. Careful man management was needed with Duncan right throughout his career, so good if he reflects on that.
I posted two weeks ago recommending people watch Duncan Ferguson The Coaching Years on Toffee TV. He comes across as thoughtful so I think he will learn what he did. Because, overall he has been excellent.
393 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:14
394 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:14
And those who are saying he should have spoken to him, in the cauldron of OT after they'd just scored - a broad Scots accent to an Italian - should look at the way Kean blanked Niasse: a total lack of team spirit there, which I believe was responsible for Duncan's lack of interest in the lad. Living in a land of foodbanks, homelessness and zero hours contracts, I find it hard to have any sympathy with a sulking millionaire teenager who is unwilling to do a job he's paid obscenely high wages to do, for just 25 mins
395 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:50
Would you still have this opinion if you had asked a person to carry out a specific role and he just blanked you and did what he wanted to do?
Unfortunately, some of today's society think that they can take and not give anything back. As many have opined, Ferguson gave him a chance to show what he could do and he fluffed it.
By the way, where was Kean's respect to his fellow team mates, when he flounced down the tunnel?
396 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:39:43
He seems to have a real affinity for the other young players in the squad and the feeling is apparently mutual, with Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Holgate all speaking highly of him and declaring they were desperate to do well for him. Why would he have time, patience, empathy and an obvious rapport with those three but suddenly decide, without good reason, ‘right, Im going to play the hard man (as Andy Crooks put it) with that wee young meff Moise Kean? He wouldnt and didnt. He took him off and didnt molly coddle him after the player trudged off, mouthing ‘what the fuck and walked straight past him. He then made a point of not publicly criticising the player and stated he was taken off to waste time, even though it was far more likely down to him failing miserably to perform the role he was tasked with and even after he made a show of sulking off down the sidelines.
The lad is meant to be a £25m player yet he looks like he hasnt the foggiest what he should be doing when out on the pitch and, after an initial burst of Beattiesque bombing about, shows all the urgency of William Shatner working his way through a wordy as fuck sentence. When he first came on, Richarlison had to usher him away from the left hand side and tell him to play centre forward. Straight down the other end and Iwobi was having to show him where to stand when defending a corner. Twice Calvert Lewin had to shout at him and motion that he needed to get closer to him after challenging for the ball in the air and Kean being nowhere near. Only ten minutes after coming on, he was stood bent over with his hands on his knees blowing for chunks next to the guy he was meant to be marking. Then he was noticeably trotting around after giving the ball away when players who had been on the entire game were busting a gut to get back.
Instead of falling into the trap of feeling like hes been hard done by simply because the manager made a decision he thought best for the team, hed be better served sitting down and watching back his own performance and subsequent stroppy reaction.
“a Boss who showed you no respect, couldnt be bothered speaking to you, sacked you without a glance.”
Fuck sake. Sacked without a glance?
He took him off the pitch with 5 minutes to go. He didnt thrust a backpack with all Keans belongings into his chest and his p45 poking out the zip...that the heartless bastard probably left half-open because he was too busy doing the ‘wanker motion with his right hand and adjusting his blindfold with his left.
He took his suit jacket off and left it lying over a seat as well. Surely should have kept hold of it, draped it over the poor lads shoulders when he departed the pitch and told him there was two Baby Bell in the inside pocket and he could have one if it would make him feel better.....one of the other boys on the bench will be only too pleased to show you how to peel it open if youre puzzled by it....oh, wait, hes already pissed off.
397 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:49:23
398 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:52:36
399 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:20:21
400 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:24:22
Im already drooling about Wednesday. I have missed going the match since I left the UK but this is the first time I think Im missing out. Cup game under the lights.
Fergusons stay might be a quick foray but its starting to bring out that youthful hope in me.
Lets hope he has a player or two back and we get a tub thumping game.
401 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:28:14
402 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:29:11
Lets all move on.
403 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:30:36
And its not Silvas fault that Brands bought someone who believes hes a maverick who doesnt have to listen to managerial instructions. Although he does look highly talented, the boy.
404 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:40:37
Talking of which I have to say that he got it spot on with the Kean substitution and how he handled it. even watching on TV you could see Kean ambling about like he wasn't bothered and making no effort at all. there is no way a young lad like that could not run about for 20 minutes if he wanted too - he obviously couldn't be bothered to put a shift in for the club, the fans, his teammates and more importantly the manager.
It was very good leadership by Dunc to not only pull him back off but also blank him when he did. It showed not only Kean but also all the other players that Dunc is no soft touch and what will happen if you do not follow orders or put your all in when playing. that is the sort of thing we have been lacking for so long - a manager who is not afraid to upset big egos and will stamp his authority on the team and get them putting some effort in.
After all, why should Kean have got hugs, smiles and handshakes when he disrespected his manager and did not do what he had been told too? I know I wouldn't in my job so why should footballers? The players have to know that it is not ok to put anything less than 100% in and it is not all smiles if they don't follow orders. Let's put it this way - I bet Kean and none of the others try it on with the big fella in charge again
It is also so refreshing to see a manager who is not trying to copy Pep or be too cool for school with fancy tactics or formations. 2 strikers on the pitch works so much better for us as does the 4 man MF. Big Dunc is cleverly playing to the strengths of the players he has - look how Keane is playing better in defence now the formation & tactics suit him.
I like Ancelotti but I would seriously wait for a few more games and give Big Dunc the chance to make the job his own. there is so much passion, fight and optimism now, why ruin it by bringing a manager in who could spoil that momentum?
405 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:45:57
I feel very strongly that this was truly awful. The fact that he was totally blanked to trudge off shamed in front of millions, is atrocious.
406 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:08:14
407 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:16:27
408 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:21:17
409 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:39:42
It was done as a favour to Mina Ravioli or whatever his name a is to cultivate a relationship.
I wonder whose decision that was then!!!
410 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:51:01
Let's show him the love!
411 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:56:28
412 Posted 16/12/2019 at 19:00:08
413 Posted 16/12/2019 at 19:38:45
414 Posted 17/12/2019 at 00:04:08
415 Posted 17/12/2019 at 00:10:18
Don't cross him, Gordon. You could be next, 25 years from now.
416 Posted 17/12/2019 at 01:53:41
Other than to appease the board, why he was brought on against Man. Utd. in the first place was beyond me. I've said all along that Niasse is more of a threat. That in itself speaks volumes of Kean. All this nonsense about him needing time to settle here as he's only 19, is a smokescreen for his inadequacies. People making a case for him are clutching at straws. I very much doubt Italian clubs would be queuing for his return, should he become available in January.
I say give Ferguson a permanent managerial contract if he continues to inspire players and gets results. So-called 'class act' managers, Martinez, Koeman and Silva have failed us in miserable succession. For all their much-publicised collective tactical nous, none had a fraction of the passion with which Duncan deploys his troops. That passion is clearly inspirational and infectious within the team. I see no reason why it can't be sustained. And don't be fooled by all the 'fist-pumping'. Big Dunc is a much shrewder operator than he is credited with.
Great managers of the past, Kendal at Everton, Shankly at Liverpool, Clough at Nottingham Forest and Robson at Ipswich, created great trophy-winning teams out out of nothing, on a financial shoestring. They passionately moulded veterans, 'has-beens' and youngsters into brilliant team performers, who believed in themselves, taking on the best in the world and beating them.
To anyone who says that it can't be repeated in today's financial climate, think of Leicester City, hardly one of the Premier League's more fashionable clubs, yet under Ranieri's guidance and more recently Brendan Rogers, they create winning teams. Arguably both men more tactically astute than Duncan is yet perhaps, but he could match them both for fighting spirit.
But If anyone knows the weaknesses and strengths of our squad it must be Ferguson. He is surely better equipped to select a team to play to those strengths. Recent results would suggest favourably. Bringing in a superstar managerial stranger, regardless of his credentials, could easily result in the exact same scenario as we have suffered for God knows how long now.
417 Posted 17/12/2019 at 02:31:07
We will no doubt land a top class striker, Niasse will be plying his trade somewhere else, but I would love the guy to score in the cup on Wednesday as a parting gift.
418 Posted 16/12/2019 at 05:24:31
I called the result 'lucky' because of the nature of the goal we scored. Huge stroke of luck (a) that it went in at all, and (b) that it was not called back by VAR. Yes, highly deserved by effort and commitment alone... but it underlined the continuing inadequacy of our goalscoring prowess, which was conspicuous by its absence yet again.
Once again, Calvert-Lewin, who put himself around well, and won a lot of challenges and duels, when faced with the tempting prospect of scoring with the ball at his feet, completely squandered his only chance with a hopelessly pathetic shot. Is he really only capable of the odd prod under pressure? I just wish he could hit the ball straight and true with some power...
That's still a real problem. We can't score. We had 8 shots, 3 on target. Presumably one was the gaol. Hopefully Ancelotti will magically improve us.
419 Posted 17/12/2019 at 06:39:11
I don't need to know why Duncan did it to judge it. We all saw what happened - that's comfortably enough to form an opinion.
We've scored 4 in 2 games at home to Chelsea and away to Man Utd. DCL has 2 of those in 2 MOM contender performances.
I don't see the negatives you do.
420 Posted 17/12/2019 at 07:53:39
421 Posted 17/12/2019 at 08:05:45
He hit a short from 40 yards last week, trying to catch the keeper off-guard, and he hit another one on Sunday from far out clean and crisp, but he never cut across the ball enough so it went straight into the United keepers arms.
Most players can do one or two things, but it's when they're trying to combine everything, that's when it becomes difficult, and this is what I personally think we are seeing with Dominic right now.
Save your energy and concentrate on scoring, or work your plums off for the team and maybe you might become a much more complete centre-forward, seems to be the conundrum right now?
423 Posted 17/12/2019 at 15:10:20
Bravo Sir. If only that could fit on a T-Shirt.
ToffeeWeb can be a miserable place sometimes and even though we all accept that and frankly, play a part in it, it's worth highlighting gems like that!
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