Blues so close to a lucky win at Old Trafford

By Michael Kenrick 15/12/2019 419comments  |  Jump to last
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Morgan Schneiderlin joins Theo Walcott and Fabian Delph on the sidelines with an expected absence of two weeks
Manchester United 1 - 1 Everton

Everton took the lead through a lucky own-goal that was not called back by VAR, but could not hold on to it after a long rearguard campaign with a few missed chances to win it squandered.

Faced with illness of Sigurdsson and Sidibe, Ferguson must make do without four injured midfield players: Schneiderlin as well as Delph, Gbamin and Gomes. Digne, Mina and Coleman are passed fit so the caretaker manager has gone with a back three and Davies in midfield. Anthony Gordon and Cuco Martina are on the bench.

It was a crazy start as Man Utd almost scored from the kick-off. But then at the other end, De Gea was fooled by a cross and forced into a late save, Everton coming close from the corner.

It was a very early yellow card for Davies, who brought down McTominay. But Pickford got the ball and launched a massive kick upfield, Hogate shooting weakly from the throw-in.

A fantastic ball from Lindelof found Rashford, who shot wide. Digne was then beaten for pace by James as he expected Pickford to come for the ball, thankfully James fired wide.

Lingard went in on Keane with his studs showing but made no contact, no booking. Everton were relying on the long ball when they got the chance. Richarlison suffered a phantom knock that troubled him after there was no sympathy from the referee.

Everton were pressing high up the field and maintaining a very high tempo to the game, while the home side wanted to build slowly until they could conjure a way forward down the flanks. But Everton were keeping their shape well, at the expense of a corner that was cleared.

Digne was carrying a groin injury and he went down after 20-odd minutes, Baines replacing him. Davies caught McTominay and gave up a dangerous free-kick that almost caught out Pickford, Rashford firing over the big Everton wall.

There was some good play from Everton, building nicely with a series of accurate passes but it broke down at Coleman. However, the ball fell to Calvert-Lewin but his strike was fielded by De Gea. Richarlison then won a corner after some good work but nothing came of it.

Lindelof pushed Richarlison but Baines's free-kick was overhit and Holgate's difficult volley was driven well wide. Good pressure saw two fine balls in from Iwobi. winning a corner. A brilliant delivery from Baines that actually bobbled in off Lindelof's thigh, with VAR checking for Calvert-Lewin putting off De Gea with his arm. It really looked like a clear foul on the goalkeeper but was strangely not called back. Goal for Everton.

Everton attacked again, another brilliant ball from Iwobi that Calvert-Lewin dived for but could not reach. But the Everton centre-forward was putting himself about well and getting at Man Utd at every opportunity, as Everton continued to press the home side back.

In a remarkable first half, Everton had done more than enough to both match and contain Man Utd, as well as score a somewhat fortuitous goal, deserved as it came through Calvert-Lewin's persistence.

It was end to end after Everton restarted, highly competitive. Calvert-Lewin went on a great run but was pushed wide and could not get off a shot. At the other end, Fred drove wide.

Tom Davies went down in agony, having rolled his ankle. Richarlison then got a silly card for kicking the ball away. Some strange decisions from Michael Oliver, a free-kick to Everton when Holgate fouled McTominay, a corner to Man Utd when Maguire headed the ball wide of the Everton goal.

Man Utd attacked strongly, a brilliant strike by Luke Shaw brought out a very good save from Pickford, pushed out to James who leathered the ball at Lingard's head. Everton attacked well enough until a really lame shot from Calvert-Lewin dribbled well wide.

It was helter-skelter stuff, scrappy for the purist, but passionate and committed for two pretty closely matched teams, with Greenwood on for the Red Devils, and the Blues perhaps starting to tire with 20 minutes left to protect that precious lead.

A corner saw Lindelof fire inches over the bar with Pickford launching himself. Kean replaced Bernard, an interesting change by Ferguson but the greater pressure was understandably coming from the home side.

Everton had a chance to break down the left, with Calvert-Lewin sprinting into space down the right, but Iwobi could not get the ball past Shaw.

Richarlison pounced on a mistake by McTominay and galloped ahead only to be fouled but no penalty. At the other end, a Man Utd free-kick caused havoc in the Everton defence but no clear chance. However, the swarming red shirts were being driven by a very frustrated home crowd, with the Everton fans singing happily.

But from hardly anything, Greenwood drove his shot clinically past Pickford to level the score. Goal stood after VAR. Everton were then really under the cosh, and it seemed inevitable that they would get another, but Everton revived a little and applied some pressure of their own.

Iwobi saw a chance and fired a tremendous shot that was very well saved by De Gea. Everton tried to use Kean but couldn't get the ball to him. However, Calvert-Lewinwas tripped, and Baines lined up a special from a long way out, driven high and wide.

Then, a bizarre moment as Ferguson subs on Niasse for Moise Kean, who had only been on for 18 minutes. Kean walked disconsolately down the touchline straight to the changing room, apparently failing to implement Ferguson's instructions, and perhaps the very last time we will see him in an Everton shirt?

Into 4 mins of added time and most of the pressure was coming from the home side, Pickford being called upon to stay alert. Everton got possession and attacked somewhat half-heartedly, looking to keep the point rather than secure all three, which was a pity, but understandable after a tremendous effort by the Blues.

Scorers: Greenwood (73'); Lindelof (og:32')

Manchester United: De Gea; Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw; McTominay, Fred, Lingard (65' Greenwood); James (86' Mata), Martial, Rashford.
Subs: Romero, Tuanzebe, Williams, Young, Pereira.

Everton: Pickford; Coleman, Keane, Holgate, Mina, Digne (25' Baines); Bernard (70' Kean (88'Niasse)), Davies [Y:6'], Iwobi; Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison [Y:].
Subs: Stekelenburg, Martina, Gordon, Tosun.

Referee: Michael Oliver


Reader Comments (419)

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Simon Smith
1 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:03:33
3-5-2
Steve Ferns
2 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:03:45
5-3-2

Pickford
Coleman Holgate Keane Mina Digne
Davies
Iwobi Bernard
Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Hmmm, Cuco Martina is on the bench!!!

Tony Hill
3 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:05:17
I assume Sidibe is injured. He's not on the bench, though Martina is. Where is Sigurdsson?
Dave Trickey
4 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:07:59
4-1-4-1 with Holgate sat in front of defence?
Steve Ferns
5 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:08:30
There’s no one left now. Niasse and Martina make the bench. I’m heading down to Finch Farm tomorrow with my boots. Duncan might need me for Wednesday.
Alan J Thompson
6 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:14:31
And Sigurdsson and Lossl?
Neil Lawson
7 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:15:59
If Dunc can grind out a result with the bare bones and the walking wounded then Christmas will have come early and the managers job is his for life. This is Everton, so maybe, just maybe.
Adrian Evans
8 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:16:24
Best play Duncan, Ebbrell, Jeffers. Quite fancy them three.
Ray Roche
9 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:17:06
Sigurdsson and Sidibe are ill apparently.
Alan J Thompson
10 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:17:41
And Sidibe?
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

11 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:18:48
WOW!

I know that Duncan's hand has been forced by injuries, but even so that's a radical change in personnel and formation.

The high profile omissions not even on the bench is a story in itself.

This is going to be a fascinating watch.

Ray Roche
12 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:20:39
Jay, he has little alternative.
Anthony Lewis
13 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:21:31
That is one scary line-up... here's hoping 🙏
Simon Dalzell
14 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:24:53
A little worried now. Midfield looking fragile.
Dennis Stevens
15 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:30:25
I read the formation as more of a 541, or 5131
Bill Gienapp
16 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:32:50
Is it a back three? ESPN's lineup had Holgate pushed forward into midfield with Davies (if true, could either be a masterstroke or a disaster).

Don't know what we would have done if Coleman and Mina weren't deemed fit.

Raymond Fox
17 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:36:48
I cant really fancy us, and I notice we are 9/2 from 4/1 after the teams were anounced
We are expected to lose so its free hit in that sense.
Lets hope we get the bounce of the ball because I think we will need some help.
David Milner
18 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:37:34
Onefootball has it as a 4-2-2-2 with Davies & Holgate playing in front of the back 4.
Minik Hansen
19 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:48:11
Still want to see this team play, hasn't list my hope. They can give Man United a real headache, I hope that's the case. I mean we're not lying down for this game? It's the opposite, full commitment! COYB
Christy Ring
20 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:50:46
We're fairly depleted, not sure if Holgate is playing as defensive midfielder?
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

21 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:54:56
Ray @ 12. I acknowledge that his hand has been forced by injury, but even so it is radically different from last week.

It's going to be a fascinating watch, as I said, to see if Duncan Ferguson has a bit more about him as a football coach than he has been credited with.

Robert Tressell
22 Posted 15/12/2019 at 13:55:55
Excited to see Martina on the bench. Less excited at the prospect of him on the pitch. Glad Duncan has stuck with back 4. V big ask of holgate in that position but we can certainly cause them problems / create chances. If everyone works hard and keeps their discipline we can get a result.
Steve Ferns
23 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:06:44
442 with Holgate in midfield
Simon Dalzell
24 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:07:54
Stupid yellow for Davies. 5 mins. Even less 'bite' now.
Christy Ring
25 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:16:30
Playing a very high line, and our back four lacking pace, a dangerous game plan.
Steve Ferns
26 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:24:06
I'm watching this from behind the sofa, it's scary!
Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:26:15
I know Steve, Iwobi doesn’t like running out wide, it’s all bluff and no real belief, so I’d swap him with Davies, just to protect Tom?
Simon Dalzell
28 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:27:38
Steve. I'm also watching behind the sofa. Not nervous, we've always had the TV there.
Alan J Thompson
29 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:28:43
Given all those missing to start with and now Digne, we must have started training again with those rusty swords.
Christy Ring
30 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:30:52
Tom's fouls are adding up, especially as he's on a yellow, and no midfielder on the bench?
Simon Dalzell
31 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:34:34
Get in! Can't believe it was allowed. At Old Trafford especially.
Steve Ferns
32 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:39:52
It had been coming. Well in Dunc.
Christy Ring
33 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:44:05
Surprise Surprise, VAR going our way, our front two are a handful, just give them the ball.
Steve Ferns
34 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:50:36
HT: terrifying first 30 and then we asserted some control, the front two and making it stick when we find them. We then showed we are dangerous and got a deserved goal. Need to defend like Trojans in the second half. COYB we can do this!
Dave Abrahams
35 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:54:21
Steve (34) No we need to add another goal, make Unt. go all out, then add another one.
Steve Ferns
36 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:57:04
I'd love another goal Dave.
Souness showing his allegiances there!
Ray Smith
37 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:57:20
Souness and Neville whinging about foul on DeGea

DeGea wasn’t positive enough imo, and flapped at it.

More of the last 15 mins throughout the second half.

Christy Ring
38 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:58:57
Souness talking his normal biased shite in the studio. A big 2nd half ahead, would love a second goal.
Cristobal Aguirre
39 Posted 15/12/2019 at 14:59:06
Great to watch Holgate as midfielder. I think that is his natural position as he has pace and know how to defend. As a central defender instead he is not strong enough.
Ernie Baywood
40 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:09
Makes you wonder what an assistant manager actually does.

In just a few days in the job Ferguson has an injury ravaged side fighting for the shirt. DCL looking like he knows what it means to be an Everton number 9.

Not much possession but plenty of pressure. Can't fault anyone in that first half.

This would be a famous win if we can keep it up. Come on you Blues!

Neil Lawson
41 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:56
Steve (28) Whatever the outcome, thank you for a laugh out loud moment.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

42 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:01:59
Deserved!

Like last week, we are seeing some very canny coaching here with vastly depleted resources.

Nice kidology at the KO, giving the impression we were going to play 5-3-2, but then Mason stepping forward to make it 4-4-2.

Apart from the Lingard chance after 15 seconds, we have again largely kept United at arm's length.

The discipline and game plan has - apart from James skinning Digne - largely nullified their counter-attacking game and pace up front.

Dom and Richie dovetailing nicely. Tom snuffing things out around their penalty area and putting us on the front foot. Iwobi and Bernard supporting their full backs. Mason doing well in an unfamiliar position. The defence barely ruffled.

And as with last week, Duncan has had to paste this together without working on it with Siggy and Sidibe falling sick at the hotel overnight.

I feared the worse when VAR checked the corner, but it was de Gea being weak, no foul by the two Everton players converging on him.

Absolutely cracking corner by Iwobi on the goal. More delivery like that please.

Tom walking a fine line on a yellow. One sub already used up with another injury. Here's hoping we can keep 11 fit men on the park for the second half and that the Duncan effect carries us to another precious 3 points.

I'm enjoying this!

Andrew Laird
43 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:02:35
Made up so far, got to keep going and stay switched on as they will be diving all over the place in this half. James, mctominay and Martial can’t wait to squeal near the penalty area
Andrew Laird
44 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:04:03
Sourness is a fuckwit. The fact he is even being asked what a foul is when he was one of the dirtiest players ever is comedy gold.
Ciarán McGlone
45 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:11:31
Nice touch from Duncan to disguise Holgates central role and fair play to Holgate who's having a great game in there..

The dream start continues.

Ernie Baywood
46 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:27:40
Right decision... We look out on our feet and firstly need fresh legs
Ernie Baywood
48 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:46:28
WTF?

Well that's the Everton career done

Steven Bencz
49 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:48:14
Why take Kean off??? WTF???
Lester Yip
50 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:53:50
Low work rate? That's my guess.
Andrew Laird
51 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:54:35
Moise kean, discuss. Seems as though he isn’t a good listener and didn’t do what his manager wanted, worrying as we need all players on board.
Ciarán McGlone
52 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:54:47
Great result given the circumstances.

But of a sour taste with the Kean incident. He was looking lively. Cant understand that at all. Complete insult.

Tony Hill
53 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:55:53
Absolutely delighted with that. Full effort, some good football at times and decisive management from Ferguson who was prepared to hook Kean when he saw something he didn't like: I assume a failure to follow orders.

I think this man is worth serious consideration as manager, a point at Old Trafford, decimated by injuries, is a serious achievement.

I worry about Pickford.

Steve Ferns
54 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:24
Good point in the end. We didn't deserve the win, we were hanging on by the end. We might have not played brilliant, but we need to remember the injuries and in such circumstances, then we have done well.

No idea what happened with Moise Kean. But that seems like his Everton career is hanging by a thread.

Jim Bennings
55 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:43
Good point, I’m not arsed about performance just results, that’s the main thing.

Keep up picking the results so and it keeps everyone happy.

Ernie Baywood
56 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:56:47
Can only assume he wasn't doing the job asked of him. Do we have an interpreter on the bench?

From the TV he looked lively enough, but would be interested in what someone at the game could see.

Regardless, I said after the Sheff Utd game that he won't be an Everton player within a year. I won't lose too much sleep over him.

Anyway, shouldn't detract from a huge effort. But it will.

Ciarán McGlone
57 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:57:19
Fergusson just said it was to kill time.. fair enough but take Dominic off.
Brian Williams
58 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:04
Duncan said he made the substitution to kill time. Can't argue with that like.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

59 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:04
Deserved the minimum of a point from that game.

BIGGGGG call by Duncan Ferguson to sub out Kean just 15 minutes after bringing him on. Didn't even look at the Italian as he came off. DF showing himself to be cold, calculating and decisive.

That's gotta hurt the kid, as shown by him walking straight down the tunnel.

Enjoyed that!

Tony Hill
60 Posted 15/12/2019 at 15:58:08
PS Holgate and Calvert-Lewin were magnificent. Thought our whole defence was superb.
Steve Ferns
61 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:00:45
Duncan could have taken Calvert-Lewin or Richarlison off to kill time. I don't believe what he said. Or, I'd have taken the ineffective Iwobi off and put Gordon on.

Ernie, watch the Everton foodbank interview. Kean understands English perfectly fine.

Jason Lloyd
62 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:00:52
It was obvious that Macguire had Kean in his pocket so he brought on a complete wild card like Niasse to create havoc.

Sorry but the kid Kean looks Under 23 level.

Tony Hill
63 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:01:00
I doubt that it was to kill time. If that was true he'd have patted the kid on the back.
Lester Yip
64 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:01:12
Kean suppose to have good pace. When we have a break, it seems he's just jogging up field while Richy who's been running whole day seems to have more pace to burn than him...
Andy Crooks
65 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:03:30
I think the substitution of Kean is a blight on the result. If there is no injury it is appalling man management because he was doing okay. I truly hope it is not Ferguson being the big man.
Grant Rorrison
66 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:06:14
Steve 61. But does he understand Ferguson though?
Ciarán McGlone
67 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:01
Agreed Mr Crooks.

Kids confidence will be rock bottom now.

Ray Smith
68 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:06
Tony 53

I share your concerns over Pickford.

Draw was probably a fair result, but imo Pickford should have saved their goal.

DF has got an injury/sick ravaged side playing for the shirt.

What could DF do with a full fit squad?

Mark Dunford
69 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:48
Kean's Everton career has been a very strange one so far. Odds must be on it being a short stay. His cameo in the first game of the season suggested a rich promise. He was clearly a Brands signing but doesn't seem to inspire Ferguson and clearly didn't get support from Silva.

Still, an excellent result with a patched up side. Let's hope we can get some people back for Weds

Tony Hill
70 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:07:52
Let's trust the manager without assuming the worst about his decision-making.
Ernie Baywood
71 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:08:08
Just watching a couple of clips and he wandered off into attack on the left side... and Ferguson was screaming at him to get back on the right wing.

If what was required was clear, then fair enough. Rather have tired legs playing for the team than fresh legs doing his own thing.

Frank Fearns
72 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:09:06
Brilliant performance by ALL the team. Brilliant by Dunc. He made decisions with a depleted team and that is very special. A ready made manager who has great desire in the club. Bring in some mercenary and the gloom will descend as they will want to change things and at this stage and position in the league can ill afford.
Tho thought all the team were great special mention for Holgate DCL and Baines.
Kieran Kinsella
73 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:09:33
Couldn’t care less about Kean or any other individual. The only thing that matters is the result. I may develop an affinity with players in the future if they prove themselves but as of now I don’t have any empathy for the trials and tribulations of individuals.
Dan Parker
74 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:10:59
I really hope it’s not a case of mis-communication with Kean and Dunc doesn’t realize the lad doesn’t understand what he’s being told. It is probably just a lack of effort and getting a result is more important.
Robert Tressell
75 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:11:22
4 points from matches we would have lost under Silva. Despite the cobbled together team we are causing all sorts of problems and defending well. Great to see and huge credit to our caretaker. Some players really taking the opportunity to show what theyve got
Dan Parker
76 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:11:34
Well said Kieran
Bill Rodgers
77 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:13:34
Ferguson made a cheap stunt with Kean. If you learn anything from top managers, they get all their players wanting to play for them. This was juvenile, counter-productive and probablty disqualifies him from the job. At the very least he cost the club £10m by advertising an unwanted player.
Tony Hill
78 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:13:42
Yes, Frank @72, I thought Baines' performance was a joy to behold. What a wonderful player and character he is to come in like that and look so sound.
Christy Ring
79 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:14:29
A great result with all our injuries, Holgate had a superb game in midfield. Dunc certainly knows his tactics, but didn't believe his take on Kean's substitution, especially when there was no shake hands.
Brian Williams
80 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:14:35
Hey let's maybe not try as hard as we can to put a dampener on a very good result bearing in mind the injuries etc.
I trust that Ferguson had his reasons for hooking Kean. I for one am prepared to have faith in his decsion to make the substitution and not speculate about something I've no idea on.
Jeff Armstrong
81 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:15:02
What did Brands say to Kean’s mother?we’ll look after your boy.
If DF didn’t fancy him why bring him on? Should’ve just brought Niasse on in the first place, Iwobi was out of steam so if the manager wanted to waste time he should have kept Kean’s fresh legs on.
Everton are destroying the lad.
Simon Smith
82 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:17:36
Shout out for Bainesy. Didn’t look out of place at all, far better corners than Digne too.
Holgate looked good in CM too.
Russ Quinlan
83 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:17:48
one other thing Dunc said was he tried to change something but he couldn't get the message on, I assume he told Kean to do a certain job but he wasn't doing it so hooked him ?
Michael Lynch
84 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:19:55
I'm absolutely loving DCL's performances at the moment. Made up for him. And that was Holgate's best performance in a blue shirt, I thought he looked pretty good in midfield. Baines was class too - I thought having him and Coleman on the pitch together added solidity to the defence, we looked far tougher at the back. Richarlison had another good game too - a lot of his work can go unmentioned because he's seen as a forward, but he tracks back brilliantly and causes the opposition endless problems all over the pitch.

My MOTM - DCL

Iwobi though - poor.

Stan Schofield
85 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:20:46
Regarding DF saying he brought Kean off to waste time, as some posts have said this might not be the true reason. If the true reason is lack of effort or output from Kean, then you wouldn't expect DF to say this openly in public. A professional approach is to give a player a bollocking in private but certainly not to do so in public. In this sense, there is no reason to suggest that DF is being anything other than professional and showing that discipline and effort are needed.

Bill@77: You're making a whole string of assumptions there!

Brian Williams
86 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:07
Bill#77.
So it was a cheap stunt from Ferguson? So you know his thinking?
Some presumption that like and one, bearing in mind what was at stake and Ferguson's personality, is IMHO complete bollocks!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

87 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:14
Bill @ 77.

That's one helluva leap to make on the Kean-Ferguson call Bill.

Personally, I continue to be impressed by how much Duncan is getting out of an injury-ravaged squad, low on confidence and belief when he took over just two games ago, with so little preparation time for both games.

He is showing himself to be a very canny - and decisive - coach.

David Hallwood
88 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:29
Sorry Bill #77 I think it's the opposite. I've seen Mourinho hook 3 players off before half time. It sends a message-get out there and sweat blood, win the battles then win the game.

I can only hope for kean's sake he doesn't have a go at Dunc!

Gordon Crawford
89 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:21:35
I’m not sure what’s going on with Kean if it was because he wasn’t doing what he’s told, then why didn’t Dunc stop him and say so. There is got to be more to this than today.
Anthony Dove
90 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:23:15
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Roman Sidey
91 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:25:06
I can't think of any reason that will make me side with DF on that substitution. He's just caused a bright young, expensive player to play his last match for the club.
Stan Schofield
92 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:29
Roman@91: The player is under contract, and Everton will decide whether he's played his last match for the club. Let's not be overly dramatic.
Anthony Dove
93 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:42
The last two games make you realise just how enjoyable football can be, and how bad it has been here for the past few years.
For those concentrating instead on the Kean situation get a life.
Paul Hewitt
94 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:26:43
At last, a manager with balls.
Dennis Stevens
95 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:27:14
Just to join in the baseless speculation, for all we know Kean being substituted back off & how Ferguson then deals with it may prove to be the making of the lad. Ferguson won't be his or anybody elses nursemaid.
Minik Hansen
96 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:28
I saw Keans movements being analyzed on tv, he either looked not giving his all or was already tired during the game. They also talked about not warming up properly before getting in.
Brian Hennessy
97 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:38
On the Kean thing.

My guess is that Ferguson and Silva before him see something in Kean in training on a weekly basis that they are not happy with.

He looks overweight to me for a start and obviously didn't follow Duncs instructions and that's why he took him off.

I have no problem with Ferguson not saying so publicly to the Sky cameras and using the time wasting line.

His actions today in taking Kean off and no doubt his words in the dressing room after the game send out a clear message to all our squad. 100% effort is the minimum requirement.

Bill Gienapp
98 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:28:49
Darn good point. Of course, it comes tinged with slight regret, since we had the lead late and had chances to make it 2-0... but you can't fault the performance, and given the almost farcical injury crisis, it was a further credit to the job Ferguson's doing.

Baines was excellent, and showed we needn't try to rush Digne back, as we clearly did today.

Sadly, things going from bad to worse for Kean. He was involved in a few promising attacks, though did seem to commit a couple rash fouls... not that Niasse is exactly known for his defensive grit.

Pat Kelly
99 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:29:46
Ferguson is right to enforce his authority. He has seen what happened to those who didn't.
Darren Hind
100 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:32:32
I was a guest of my Man U supporting ex boss. I was sitting up behind the benches and you could clearly hear Ferguson repeated shouting "stay CF". I thought he was screaming at DCL until I saw young Kean get subbed.

Duncan can say all he wants, but my take on it is Kean was too eager to get involved and didn't do as he was told. He tracked back leaving bare up front

I don’t agree that this can destroy Kean. Every young player suffers a set backs. If he is good enough. He will rise to the top regardless of a fruitless 15 minutes at OT.

Ferguson? He simply has to point to the result

Stephen Brown
101 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:32:47
At first I felt for Kean but the more I read from other posters and think about it, bollocks to him!

He either takes it on the chin and proves Dunc wrong or he takes the easy path and goes back to Italy ! I hope he takes the first option as all the players must be mentally tough if we aim to get to where we want to get !

Embarrassing for him yes but the balls in his court now!

Terrific effort from the players and dome canny management at the start pretending to play 5 at the back. I thought Holgate was superb in midfield by the way!

If Dunc gets a result in Wednesday then surely he comes into recognition for the job! I’m enjoying seeing him in the touch line but hope he doesn’t have pneumonia before Wednesday night!

Tony Hill
102 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:34:55
Quite right, Pat @99.

It was great as well to see us keep pushing on after they equalised.

This fella is truly unafraid.

Steve Brown
103 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:35:49
It was immature man management from Duncan to sub Kean in an otherwise excellent display. Kean had switched with DCL at the time when his manager told him to track back, so his role was to stay high and keep the defensive two in their own half. If you then tell him to track back, he allows Man U to push up much higher. He didn't require that of DCL, so his instructions to Kean did not make sense.

Kean then rushes back, gives away a free kick and gets hauled off in a fit of pique by Duncan. He has shredded the young lad's confidence in the process. Kean was doing okay in my opinion. If all he wanted was a headless chicken up top why not bring Niasse on instead of him? His post match excuses about wasting time by making another sub were an indication that on reflection he realised he had made a poor decision.

Frank Fearns
104 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:37:04
Tony@70 -- the most important thing is making a decision -- as a manager you back your team if they have the balls to make a decision -- and Dunc has this in abundance -- I hope those "up the top" back him.
Raymond Fox
105 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:38:02
Another cracking result for Dunc. and the club, and all we can talk about is subbing Kean!!
He's not took him off for fun, there will be a good reason.
Reading between the lines I'm guessing Kean is not the best off the field also.
There we go I'm discussing Kean too, when it should be all about the teams good performance.

I know one thing I wouldn't be looking for another manager just yet.

Grant Rorrison
106 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:42:45
Raymond 105. Me neither. I'd keep Ferguson until the end the season and then review the situation. Think the Kean sub seems a bit harsh though. Although I don't know the whole story.
John Hammond
107 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:05
We've had injury problems all season but Ferguson has had it worse over these last 2 games than Silva ever had it and he's still put a team out that's performed and made us proud.

While we all joke he's made the players play out of fear I think that's a massive disservice to the man. He's said himself that that side of him is in the past. This is a coach that has learnt a hell of a lot over the years. Right now it would be madness to bring a new manager in.

Terry Murray
108 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:40
I feel as if we've got our Everton back again.
Paul Tran
109 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:43:43
I missed a bit of the second half, so I can't honestly rate Kean's performance. Judging by the look on Duncan's face and the fact that he blanked Kean as he went off, I'm assuming he wasn't happy.

As far as the interview is concerned, I think he's saying one thing in public and will say another in private. If, and it is an if, he's pulled him off for lack of effort or not following instructions, he's sending out a signal to everybody. If that's the case, it's good strong management for me!

Good point under the circumstances.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

110 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:23
Meanwhile, back to the football rather than focus on one incident.

Dunno why people are having a pop at Pickford today. I thought in the 1st half he could have come out to James when the winger whizzed past Digne, but then again, he may have computed the angles and settled on staying at home as his best option. Other than one goal kick straight into touch in the 2nd half, his kicking was very good, he pulled off a couple of excellent full stretch saves and was solid in all else he was called on to do.

Whilst United had the better of the 2nd half, the back four mostly held solid. Seamus looked the weakest link to me. Keane and Mina sound. Baines exhibited the class you never lose. Digne hasn't looked right for a few weeks now and I hope he gets to sit out a few games with this groin strain to rehabilitate and come back stronger.

Tom and Mason did very well in central midfield, even with Tom walking a tightrope after the early yellow. He does so much good break up work which largely goes unnoticed and then quickly moves the ball on to put Everton on the front foot. Too unappreciated by many on here, I feel.

Iwobi and Bernard, whilst supporting their full backs well, offensively were quite marginal. Both are technically sound and capable of incisive plays, but both - Iwobi in particularly - need to be stronger on the ball and certainly with hold up play when receiving the ball. Otherwise, it keeps coming back at us.

DCL was again immense. Second match running he ended up with the MoTM award. It makes so much of a difference to have Richarlison in close attendance playing off him. The Brazilian again playing hard for the team.

Kean on then off for Niasse? I'm sure this won't count as the worst day in his career in professional football.

As for Ferguson, well played again Big Man. Keeping it simple. Playing to our strengths, rather than attempting to impose a 'football philosophy' we are not capable of.

It's results rather than performances that count for more for Everton at the moment. And Duncan is delivering on both.

Can't wait to return to the bear pit v Leicester on Wednesday. Gonna be another interesting watch, I reckon.

Stan Schofield
111 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:36
This was a really pleasing result given the absolute joke of injuries we have. It does make you wonder what DF can do when we've got a fully fit squad.
Tony Hill
112 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:44:38
Agreed, Frank @104, we've craved a ruthless manager, one who bucks the soppy Everton trend; then when we see one in action we start to melt. Let's make our minds up.

Michael Lynch
113 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:47:13
City tearing Arsenal a new one at the Emirates. We should be aiming to do the same next weekend.
James Stewart
114 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:49:27
We did well considering the mounting injuries.

That said, Keangate was something we did not need and a faux pas from Big Dunc. Regardless of where you stand on it, I think most would agree it was easily avoidable. The reaction of Iwobi and others to the sub was bemusement, not good.

I also found the fist pumping after a draw a little cringeworthy. Totally warranted if you have won the game, but here it felt more like something a lower league team would do in a cup.

Dave Ganley
115 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:51:13
Well done Dunc you've really managed to get a tune out of the players. Would have loved a win but happy with a draw. The players are finally showing a bit of heart and passion and the fact we were down to the bare bones today regarding injuries, then it makes the result even better.

Hopefully we have enough in the tank to bring another big performance on Wednesday. I'm really looking forward to that now. Everton are starting to regain their identity. Well played lads.

David Connor
116 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:52:14
Good result all things considered. Regarding the Kean substitution, the lad has a bad attitude. He's been bollocked by Everton for turning up late for training and dropped from the Italian squad for exactly the same reason.

Get rid ASAP. Too much too young. The kid will destroy his career before its begun... Brands signing. Not good.
Christopher Timmins
117 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:52:17
Given the injuries leading up to the game, the players who had to cry off through illness at the last moment and the loss of Digne early on it has to go down as a heroic performance.

Our bank four lack pace but playing deeper and with Holgate and Davis immense in front of them we did well.

I am certain that a bad last result last weekend coupled with another defeat today would have seen the return of David Moyes in the coming days, however, that is now on hold and a couple of good results this side of Christmas might result in Duncan getting the job until the end of the season.

We have to accept that with the players at our disposal that our style of play will not be easy on the eye but we are more solid defensively and Charlie and DCL are always a threat upfront.

Keep it going boys!

Tony Hill
118 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:53:05
I remember Klopp doing that, James@114, when the RS drew 2-2 with West Brom at Anfield. Everyone thought it was excruciating.
James O'Connell
119 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:56:51
If Kean is the player we all hope he will be, then he will now be desperate to prove himself in training and future games.

Team result today; lots of positives and a manager who cares as much as the supporters.

Future fixtures don't feel quite so intimidating now.

Daniel A Johnson
120 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:57:38
Who has had more coaching experience so far: Arteta or Ferguson?
Paul Hewitt
121 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:58:16
We've just got a point at Old Trafford, against a Man Utd side that has just beaten Spurs and City. Excellent result in my opinion.

As for the Kean sub. I don't know if it was to waste time or he wasn't trying.

But who cares, we now have a manager not afraid to make decisions. Now it's up to Kean to either come out fighting, or sulk.

Phil Greenough
122 Posted 15/12/2019 at 16:58:52
James @114. Ferguson had just took four points out of a possible six, where many expected us to lose both games, and you're taking umbrage at him for a small fist pump?
Dave Ganley
123 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:01:02
James #114, Tony #118, it's all about bonding with the fans, showing them that they've got a decent result when they weren't expected to. Same as Klopp when they supposedly celebrated a draw, it was more of a thanks for support, we're all in this together. The kind of affection that big Dunc gets from the fans for doing stuff like that is immense, same as Klopp with their fans.

I couldn't give a monkey's if it looks embarrassing if it pays dividends on the field. When big Dunc whips up the fans, all he needs to say to the players is "Do it for them!"

That's my take on it anyway.

Adrian Evans
124 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:01:47
Ask big Duncan who the manager is he wants to work with. Technical know-how is one thing, all-round coaching. Anybody know a better coach to motivate, inspire confidence in individuals, an Everton team, than Duncan? He might not be able to do it at another club, who knows... who cares?

So if he stays 20 years, he's successful with us, who cares? He doesn't want to be anywhere else.

We might hire a manager with experience elsewhere, one who has won in the past. I suspect Duncan Ferguson might want it???? A proven international coach who might have won. Would Arteta want Duncan?? Ancelotti want Ferguson, he's got Clement??

Any manager coming in would be daft not to want Duncan. But that might not work. If we are going to gamble, gamble on big Duncan 4 points from 6 against top 6 sides.

Take it away from him, sign a multi-million £contract with a coach and lose 4 out of 6 and see what happens Mr Moshiri.Give it to Duncan and his team, for Christ's sake. He's got a decimated squad, a shirker in Kean yet still delivers.

Dont expect too much on Wednesday. Arsenal with a skeleton make shift team if injuries keep pilling up. Gordon will play, others will play and with a little luck we will do well.

But, if it goes wrong now, it won't be down to Duncan or those we have left standing. Oh Pickford needs dropping, he is a liability at the moment. Needs a kick up the arse, drop him.

Daniel A Johnson
125 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:02:29
The Club comes before any player. If Kean doesn't like following instructions, keeping fit, putting in 100% effort then he can get lost back to Serie A.

No sympathy for work shy arrogant players young or old. Duncan Ferguson has set his standards and you either buy into it or you are out. The days of SIlva hugging and constantly putting his arm around the players is well and truly over and I'm all for it.

Right now I'm all for Duncan getting the job full time. He really is demonstrating match by match that he is up to doing the job full time.

Mark Frere
126 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:03:08
A very hard-fought point from a injury depleted squad. I thought Holgate had a terrific game in midfield - I'm leaning towards giving him a sustained run of games in that position. Perhaps when Delph returns, we could have him as the box-to-box midfielder, with Holgate protecting the back four?

Re the Kean substitution, I don't think we need to write off the young 19-year-old's career just yet. Big Dunc will have had his reasons but none of us know so there's no point being dramatic about it at this stage. It's just one incident, the same as when Sidibe got hauled off early in the Derby.

Moise is very young and this season was always going to be about him adapting to a new League and country. Sure, he was visibly disappointed to be substituted but he has all the time in the world to turn round his career here. We are talking about a kid at 19, not a proven striker 10 years older.

Michael Lynch
127 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:05:26
If we're starting to compare Big Dunc to Klopp for his enthusiasm, then he's doing something right! If Ferguson is our Klopp then there'll be no complaints from me.

One of Klippety's best attributes is the ability to get the players and fans on board and united. Ferguson seems to have that same talent, whatever else he provides as a manager.

John Pierce
128 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:05:41
If that's Mourinho or Klopp, he starts Kean on Wednesday.

I'd hope Kean gets a full explanation of why and what's expected, then is asked to show he understands by demonstrating his skills against Leicester.

That would be the motivational and inspirational thing to do.

Frank Fearns
129 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:06:33
Can't believe the posts going on about Dunc subbing Kean. One even said he'd blown his management chance. He's shown all these so-called tacticians before how to set up a team and win/ draw.

The mugs over the last few years would have lost that match. Back him big time instead of nit-picking about Kean. Tell me a manager who would have played Holgate in that position.

Allan Board
130 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:07:58
Good point away, injury-ravaged team, a coach with a plan who changes it when he sees fit. We have all been screaming for a manager with balls who is decisive after 20 years of brown nosers, now we have one.

Kidnap Kenwright tonight before he puts the poison in and let the big man do his job for the season. I see a ruthless streak in Dunc, and as long as you keep doing what he wants you're in the team, perfect. Keep the buggers on their toes, and the manager keeps control.

Leicester will be turned over Wednesday night, by the way. Dunc will be only too aware we owe them one. Good on yer, big fella!!

Billy Roberts
131 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:08:00
A very important point well earned. The momentum can continue now onto the cup game.

Here's hoping we have a few more players available, to think of all the injuries he has to deal with Ferguson has really excelled in a short space of time.

If we can progress into the semis of the cup, the Ferguson effect will really gather steam. This is one of the hardest and really unfathomable skills in management, to create a culture of winning and fighting. Klopp has done it, Pochettino had it for a few seasons at Spurs, Mourinho has done it with a few teams. Let's hope Ferguson has some of it, Evertonians need it and I think deserve it.

For those sensitive types who are questioning his treatment of Kean, get over it, if Kean is as good as you all presume he will get over it.

If Kean can't get over this incident, he is not going to succeed as a professional in this country, nevermind the ruthless Italian Seria A.

Tony Hill
132 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:08:01
Dave @123, I agree with you mate, I was disagreeing with James. Everything about Ferguson is invigorating; the shirt business in the rain, for example. It's theatre and it starts to create a winning story.
Shaun Laycock
133 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:20:57
Cracking result... well done all. Especially with the injuries.

Regarding Kean, something fishy about him. Juve let him go. Both Silva and Dunc don't fancy him. Fined for lateness. Subbed for some reason we don't know.

All I know is no one player is bigger than the club.

Gerry Ring
134 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:21:03
Pickford does not inspire confidence. Apart from not coming off his line & dodgy kick-outs, he seems to make a meal of straight forward saves. Can't be easy for the guys in front of him. I'm not convinced.

Glad to see Seamus doing well. Obviously given a man to man-marking job on in-form Rashford & dealt well with the task. Overall, a very satisfying point & one we wouldn't have gotten a month ago!!!

Brian Williams
135 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:21:25
John#128.
IF he deserves to start!
Tony Abrahams
136 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:22:02
That's a good point Dennis@95, because if Ferguson, doesn't rate Kean, then surely he wouldn't have put him on the pitch in the first place?

If Ferguson is a good man-manager, then I expect Kean, to be back on the pitch against Leicester at some stage, but only if Kean, is prepared to listen and then take on-board, what his present manager wants from him?

I've criticised the other Keane, (Michael) but he played like a man today, played with more confidence, and along with Holgate, and Calvert-Lewin, it helped to give Everton, a much better spine right through the middle, possibly for the first time this season.

Made up with our fight today, made up with our shape, made up the players are playing for the shirt again, (honest) and like a lot of posters have said, I'm made up we've got 4 points in the last week, because I'm pretty sure we would be in the bottom 3 now, if we hadn't got rid of Marco Silva!

Jay Harris
137 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:22:13
Given the injury-ravaged squad and the state of the club, I think Duncan has performed miracles. Some people were saying we wouldn't get another point before Xmas a few weeks ago

Duncan has 4 in 2 difficult games.

Who gives a fuck about Kean? It's all about the team, not individuals.

Dave Ganley
138 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:24:14
Tony #132, It does doesn't it mate, it's great to have that kind of interaction for a change. Long may it continue.
Bobby Mallon
139 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:25:13
Daniel A Johnson,

The lad was not work-shy, it was bad man-management by Dunc. If people are saying he is not fit, then he should not be in the squad. He also shouldn't be getting subbed for Niasse who should never be near the squad ahead of a young Under-23 forward.

Ray Smith
140 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:26:52
Kean understandably upset.

However, now is the time to rise above it and show the big man what he can do to earn his place in the team!

Brian Wilkinson
141 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:27:07
For my take on the Kean sub, we had Davies as last man standing in midfield, Iowbi, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin could at least hold the ball up, taking one of those three off and we would have been on the back foot.

We weathered the storm and although a strange scenario, we had no other option than to swap striker for striker with that bench.

I am sure Kean will come good, but holding the ball up or tackling is not his greatest strength.

I thought we played with guts today, hardly any midfield, forced sub after 20 mins, cannot fault the effort again today.

Christy Ring
142 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:27:16
A draw at Old Trafford, with 4 more players missing, and Utd after beating Spurs and City, and some are questioning Duncan's fist pump to the away fans, really, it's called passion.

As for taking Kean off, wasn't he very professional in his interview, saying he was using up time, and keeping his real reason behind closed doors.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

143 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:28:11
Interesting straw poll on the BBC's match text commentary.

They asked thumbs up for Dunc to get the manager's job full time. Thumbs down for no.

4288 thumbs up. 969 thumbs down.

Landslide victory!

Mike Corcoran
144 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:28:36
Mason looked good in the middle; that could suit him and is long term.
David King
145 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:29:33
Daniel A Johnson (125) Spot on mate
Duncan McDine
146 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:30:44
One player that I never thought would make the grade is starting to become a beast. Calvert-Lewin is making me eat humble pie. Also a special mention for Mason who was incredible, and of course the Big Man!!! From the faux 3 at the back lineup to the jacket coming off... fucking love him
Andy Crooks
147 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:32:08
Billy, @131, I'm not a sensitive type so I will get over it. Duncan Ferguson has rejuvenated Everton, short term and I admire him for it and have said so on another thread. That doesn't change my view that this was appalling man management.
It seemed like the old Duncan. Get sent off, clap your right hand on your left bicep, flex your arm in a fuck you all gesture. A desperate sign of weakness.
Duncan is a short term fix, well done to him but I hope we get someone much better soon. He has confirmed his legendary status but his methods are unsustainable. I hope he hasn't damaged a young player with great potential to prove he is a hard man.
George Cumiskey
148 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:32:50
Who gives a fuck about Kean ? What a thing to say after he's just been completely embarrassed for no reason whatsoever.
Andy Crooks
149 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:35:19
Jay, come on, do you see Dunc as our permanent manager? This has been Henry V stuff. Why not Ken Branagh?
Daniel A Johnson
150 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:35:39
Bobby Mallon...…….Boo hoo my bleeding heart.

The fact that Keane sulked off down the tunnel in a stroppy huff shows all you need to know about Moise Kean. The club and a result comes before kean's fragile ego, it was good management.

Let not forget it was Duncan who put Kean on in the first place.

Duncan is setting the standard.

Andy Crooks
151 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:36:37
Well said, George.
Bobby Mallon
152 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:37:26
John Pierce 128 I agree with your post
Jamie Crowley
153 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:39:02
Great effort, set up, and result.

MOTM Holgate for me. Excellent game, stepping into midfield especially.

If anyone believes Dunc was subbing Kean to kill time, there’s a bridge I’d like to sell you in Brooklyn. Total b.s. and misdirection, suave move by Dunc to keep it in house.

I love Moise Kean and think he looked good. Clearly Dunc wants more hustle defensively; he was strolling a bit when not on the ball.

Dunc should be named manager now in my opinion. I think his pulling Moise is a great message: get o board or you’re not playing under my watch.

Nothing but 100% for the shirt. That’s just fine by me.

Give him a contract until the end of the year. He’s shown more tactical nous, more bravery, more humility, more passion, and more intelligence in two games than we’ve seen in years.

It’s Fergie time, for me.

Bill Watson
154 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:40:00
At the game we were commenting on Kean's apparent lack of mobility (considering he'd just come on) and thought he may have taken a knock.

From Duncan's comment it appears that's not the case!

A very disciplined performance, so different from Silva's shambolic set ups.

Now for Leicester!!

Andy Crooks
155 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:41:43
Daniel, any player with any pride would have marched down the tunnel in anger. Do you actually, actually fucking think that was good management? It was shit management. Short- sighted, unsubtle bully stuff. Just what the old Duncan excelled at.
George Cumiskey
156 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:42:10
It wasn't so long ago that 99% of the people on ToffeeWeb were saying Duncan should be sacked, that he was a big part of the problem at Everton.
Now all of a sudden he's the messiah, how fickle evertonians are.
Tony Hill
157 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:43:19
Yes, Bill, my mates who were at the game said the same about Kean.
Andy Crooks
158 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:43:58
well said again, George.
John Pierce
159 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:44:06
Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were excellent today. It has to be said DCL and Richarlison off him as a split striker is a goer. It has brought him alive. His knock downs when a support striker is close by were excellent.

Holgate, simple and basic but effective. Protected the back four and only occasionally tried to do too much.

A side note for a Richarlison who when moved to Left midfield, consistently got the ball and carried up field, bought a foul and kept United honest.

A player who I though was out of step today was Pickford. His kicking was atrocious. Everton clearly set up to over load and often he got nowhere near his targets. His efforts from back passes were poor too.

His attitude was questionable too, after a mistake and players at last lambasting or encouraging him he didn’t want a bar of it.

Again from Rashford’s free kick he moved left towards his wall making the save much harder for himself. Kinda like Brighton, there’s a technical issue there for sure. His parries were poor and not far enough to the side, we just got lucky. It’s a shame we don’t have decent competition for his place.

He needs a rest.

Daniel A Johnson
160 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:11
Andy Crooks, its a decision that will no doubt split the fan base.

But the fact is these players have let us down time after time, they are handsomely paid and I have no problem with Duncan Ferguson giving any single one of them a well deserved kick up the arse.

A sub got subbed Kean isn't the first he wont be the last. His reaction in the coming games will tell you all you need to know about his mentality and if he really does want to die playing for that shirt.

George Cumiskey
161 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:13
Thank you Andy the checks in the post. Lol
Brian Williams
162 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:16
Tony#136.
Tony did you watch the game in town mate?
Bill Rodgers
163 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:45:22
Good managers get the best from their players and they do that by making them want to be part of a winning side. Ostracising individuals is bad policy. Two games in and he's showing the cracks. Inadequate.
Paul Hewitt
164 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:01
To all you people moaning about Kean's substitution, get over it. I'm sure Dunc has told him why he took him off. Now he either man's up or sulks, that's up to him. Do you want to go back to Silva's weak management?, I don't. Well done Duncan for getting our Everton back.
Jamie Crowley
165 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:31
Andy -

As a massive Kean fan-boy, I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The manager, whomever he is, is entitled to make any move he deems necessary too get points. If Dunc saw something he didn’t like, he needs to pull Jesus if that’s what it takes.

Regarding the man management, this is, without question, a harsh move for young Moise. However, the move was made by a man who’s motivated and entire fan base and galvanized a team in two games.

I trust, despite this being very, very harsh, Duncan will get this right. There’s zero indication he can’t do it.

And if Moise does fall foul of Ferguson? Ship him out. Team before individuals. Always.

Brian Williams
166 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:46:57
Lol. Good one Bill.
Joe McMahon
167 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:47:09
Duncan has restored some pride and I think as interim he's doing better than Unsworth did with a worse squad. I'm happy for Duncan to carry on for now, although dissapointed with the Kean substitution.

However the board do have to thing probably about the long term manager, look at Spurs now. Arsenal and United will be looking for new managers also.

Tony Hill
168 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:48:57
Incredible that we’re having a pop at the manager in favour of a 19 year old rookie. And we wonder why players feel they can do what they like.
Andy Crooks
169 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:50:13
Agreed, Bill. Short term populism doesn't build a Champions League team.He has steadied things, been inspiring and should be gone.
Thought Pickford was dreadful at their goal.
Duncan McDine
170 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:50:42
Disagree with you Bill (163). The best managers in the world throughout the history of football have been ruthless bastards. Managers who try to be everyone’s best mate get found out pretty quickly.
Gavin Johnson
171 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:51:53
A well deserved point. Dunc's surpassing himself getting a tune out of such a depleted squad. Unless we bring in Ancelotti or Rafa and have Dunc as a No.2 with him eventually succeeding one of them, I think we should keep Dunc as interim and see where we are at the end of the season.

As for the Kean incident, I feel for the lad. None of know what Ferguson was thinking and whether his reasoning was genuine. What I do think is important, is how it looks to everyone else and the media and a lot of supporters think the kid was embarrassed.

Daniel A Johnson
172 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:52:00
No one is claiming Duncan to be the messiah.

Most are merely acknowledging what a brilliant job hes done in two difficult fixtures with a decimated squad. From his team selection to tactics he has been spot on.

Sound like people on here just have a personal axe to grind with Ferguson.

We came to Old Trafford with our patched up B team and nearly won...…..but because he hooked an underperforming player hes now a disgrace and a bully? Jesus no pleasing some on here.

Andy Crooks
173 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:54:08
Jamie, I don't think Duncan saw something in Kean he didn't like. I think he saw something in himself that he liked very much. The chance to be big bad Dunc again.
Jamie Crowley
174 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:54:20
Correction, Daniel.

At this point in time, there’s one American claiming Duncan is indeed the Messiah.

He’s exactly what the Blue world needs at this moment, and I’m prepared to pin all my hopes in him.

He’s been marvelous.

Jamie Crowley
175 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:56:35
Andy -

I don’t agree. I didn’t see that. Had I, I’d be squarely in your court.

I don’t think it was a small penis move.

I think Dunc will get it right with Moise in the end. He’s just gotten us 4 points from Chelsea and Man U away. Give the guy a chance to keep moving forward, and let’s see what happens with the team and Moise.

Andy Crooks
176 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:57:35
Daniel, I should make it clear, despite what I have said. Duncan Ferguson has done a brilliant job. Cometh the hour cometh the man. He has kicked relegation out the window. His work is done.
George Cumiskey
177 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:57:54
Daniel, were you one of the people who wanted Duncan sacked a few weeks ago, or have you always been in favour of him being the manager? Just asking like.
Bobby Mallon
178 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:58:39
Daniel @ 150. It was bad man-management. Yes, I agree, he should not have sloped off, but, at 19 and being subbed for fucking Niasse after 19 mins, I think I would have sloped off.

Yes, you're correct: he put him on, but then made an incorrect decision. Why put him on in the first place?

He must have known he would use his last sub to waste time. Why not Martina for Richarlison or Calvert-Lewin? that would have made sense.

Tony Abrahams
179 Posted 15/12/2019 at 17:58:55
No Brian, I watched it in the house mate. I actually got a text of Derek Knox, to see if I was in town, and although I never even saw that txt until the game had just finished, I wouldn't have watched it in the pub whilst it was on in my house mate.

One of the biggest things missing from my life is not getting to many away matches, Brian (and six little numbers, obviously!) because, since Koeman came to Everton, it's not something I can really justify doing anymore. But when Everton fight like they've just done tonight, then I won't be able to justify not going for much longer hopefully!

Kev Jones
180 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:00:12
When you are hungry you need a good meal. The football Dunc serves up is like pie and mash. It's great, tasty and fills a hole but you don't want to eat it all the time. We need a masterchef. To his credit Dunc knows he won't make the final.
Daniel A Johnson
181 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:03:02
George, like most on here we all wondered what Duncan actually did.

When he got the caretaker role I wasn't exactly over the moon. No one could have predicted this could they?

He's galvanised the team, is this a short term new manager bounce or could he be the real deal.

Given that Man Utd had beat Spurs and Man City, that performance for me today spoke volumes. The way we were set up, the way we didn't cower down to anything. The way we didn't wave a pathetic white flag with an injury-list excuse.

Is his work done for now or this the birth of EFC and Duncan Ferguson as our new manager? Who now would take Arteta over Ferguson for example?

I don't have the answers but right now it's Duncan's job till the end of the season for me.

Simon Dalzell
182 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:03:38
If we'd held on for a win, Michael, I wouldn't have said 'lucky'. Just perhaps that for once we'd got a break or two. Great point considering the ravaged squad.

Obviously Mr Ferguson knows Kean well, but I feel sick for the lad. I feel this could really damage him rather than motivate. Complete humiliation. Interesting to see see what develops with this one.

Derek Taylor
183 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:06:30
Embarrassing Kean could well be a decision which DF will come to regret in the very near future and possibly for the rest of his life. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong in a game in which 'normal' managerial behaviour has no place, it may well have presented Owner and Chair with a ready excuse to overlook the 'stand in' on the grounds of' lacking style'

Prepare to welcome Moyes any day soon!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

184 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:07:49
Andy @ 149.

"Jay, come on, do you see Dunc as our permanent manager?"

You've usually got more commonsense and humour than that Andy.

I merely reported a completely harmless text from the BBC report. Not lobbying for, or endorsing, Duncan's candidacy for the post.


Dave Abrahams
185 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:12:35
I had to go out, so missed the first half, put the game on expecting Everton, with that enforced team, to be a couple of goals down. I was amazed and delighted to see we were 1-0 up, didn't care how the goal was scored as long as it counted.

I thought we did well in the second half and might have got another on, especially if Iwobi had been brave enough to get the ball across to the galloping Calvert-Lewin, what a game he had, along with Holgate, but, to be honest, most of the team fought hard for that well-deserved draw.

I don't know the reason why Moise Kean was taken off, what I do know is Niasse helped to keep possession and get some throw-ins, which helped us to keep the clock ticking down to the final whistle.

Four points out of the last two games, which many on here didn't expect us to get. Carry on for now, Duncan, it couldn't have gone much better.

Bobby Mallon
186 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:13:45
Tony Hill,

It's the 19-year-old rookies that this side of ours need to be cherishing, not making a fool of. How do you know he wasn't suffering from the sickness bug, and that's why he was (supposedly) not up to scratch?

I mean why put him on if you want someone to put a shift in? Tosun was there... he would have ran his balls off.

Billy Roberts
187 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:13:49
Andy Crooks

You clearly don't like Duncan Ferguson because he used to bully defenders??

Strange logic, I admit his legendary status was well overcooked but on his day he was a superb striker and gave Evertonians someone too look up to when all we had was dross, he is galvanising the fanbase and a skeleton of a team and getting us points, points on the board are what this game is about, remember?

You say his approach is unsustainable? How do you know? Really only time will tell us that won't it?

You call his handling of Kean as shit man-management, again only time will tell on how Kean responds. I will give the manager the benefit of the doubt every time when we are getting points. Let's hope the big bully bullies his team into bullying Leicester off the park in the cup game eh? It's only for the short term though most probably so I'm sure you will get over it.

Kevin Molloy
188 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:14:52
We should be used to it by now but the match report in The Guardian is disgraceful.
Paul Tran
189 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:14:57
Today is, for me, confirmation that we don't need to rush the mangerial decision. Two games and four points is a decent start, but more time is needed to accurately judge Duncan as a possible permanent manager. We certainly looked well-organised and hard-working. And we counter-attacked quite well, too. Considring the injuries, it was a decent performance.

Roll on to Wednesday!

Robert Tressell
190 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:16:06
After this, there are 3 important home games. None of Leicester, Arsenal or Burnley will much fancy coming to Goodison at the moment.

Ferguson has done very well to create a special sort of atmosphere for the players. To get a point with such a patched up team is impressive – especially against a very potent attack. Hopefully Dunc will be in charge for those games for those 3 and the away game at Newcastle.

New Year, who knows? Dunc is doing well enough now to give him the rest of the season a park the permanent appointment till summer 2020 when the choice on offer will be better.

Trevor Peers
191 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:17:15
Duncan has been a revelation so far he has breathed life into a virtual zombie outfit that Silva had turned us into. He has total belief in himself and it transfers to the players, all the legendary managers tell us football is a simple game and I think Duncan buys into this winning philosophy. He doesn't suffer fools, as the Kean substitution showed us, "Either do the job I tell you or you're of!" I love his attitude.

Still early days but I can see him having a tremendously positive impact on the team he loves, something that has been missing from the team for decades. If he continues getting results, he must be in line to keep the job until the summer, then see who is available. By then, he may've become the obvious choice, hopefully.

Christy Ring
192 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:20:04
Bill Rodgers @163 “Two games in and he's showing the cracks inadequate”, are you for real, and Andy Crooks agreeing with you, he's got 4pts in his first 2 games, he's played Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison together up front, a revelation, played Holgate in midfield today, outstanding, and you're questioning his decision to sub Kean, who hasn't got a look in all season. He's done a superb job, with an injury-hit squad, brought passion and pride back to the club. I'm not saying he's the answer long term, but credit where credit's due.
Ciarán McGlone
193 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:21:01
Did anyone else notice that when Kean on he went over to the left and Richarlison sent him into the middle... possible mixed messages?

No point 'keeping it in house' after such a public admonishment.

Anyway... it's churlish to dwell on this.

Rob Dolby
194 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:22:21
What a fantastic performance given the injuries we have.

Ferguson is motivating these lads to run themselves into the ground.

Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were outstanding. I did feel sorry for Kean but there is no room for passengers under Duncan.

For me Pickford should have done better with the shot. He looked very iffy all game.

Kev 180. Nothing wrong with Pie and Mash after years of paying over the odds for foreign muck.

Kristian Boyce
195 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:23:08
Supposedly there’s going to be a board statement tonight on the manager’s job according to Dunc. He said he’ll probably be in charge for Leicester as it’s too soon for someone coming in.
Karl Meighan
196 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:26:15
I liked what he did to Kean it sends a message, he isn't taking any shit and the whole squad best realise you don't listen and put the work Ferguson wants in or your off or out.

How is that bad management? I aint saying I want Ferguson in charge but these players have had how many the sack, big wages or not there playing for Everton Football Club and the least that is expected is 90 minutes of hard work giving the opponents nothing they don't create themselves.

4 points from 2 big clubs and no argument for the effort and work that has been put in over them 2 games. Mounting injuries as well I don't think we could ask for much more and hopefully it continues.

Dave Williams
197 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:26:19
I cannot believe the criticism of Duncan re Kean. He sees him in training every day – like Silva he has not seen anything to persuade him to give a Kean significant minutes on the pitch.

None of these critics have a clue what Duncan asked Kean to do when he went on. If he wasn't doing as he had been told then it was right to pull him off.

At the end of the season what would you all say if we had been relegated by one point?? Would you have been happy that Kean was kept on regardless and possibly led to us losing 2-1?

Duncan has to do what he thinks is right to get the best result. He can and no doubt will talk to Kean about this and one would hope explain why he did this.

We need points – not accolades for being nice people.

Colin Glassar
198 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:30:26
Excellent performance from Duncan and the lads. Everyone played their part (even Iwobi, who was guilty for their equaliser).

Holgate and Calvert-Lewin were my standout players but hats off to the oldies - Bainsey and Coleman. Two men who showed they still have it when called on.

I'm not calling for Dunc to be named manager, just yet, let him carry on game by game but please sweet Jesus, have someone lined up in case it all goes sour.

Brian Wilkinson
199 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:33:41
Couple of posters who went the game have commented about strolling when not in possession.

It is easier at the match to note this instead of the camera following the action.

If this was the case then he had no option, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Iowbi were holding the ball up, even Niasse when he came on chased and closed players down.

Has anyone had a look at the midfield we had to put out today? Those above players brought a little rest bite to our midfield.

I am sure had we had a midfielder on the bench, then Davies would have been rested near the end. We didn't so had to swap a striker for another striker, to run the clock down.

With the others challenging, tackling and holding the ball up, he took the right player off in my opinion.

I would have preferred Dunc to say "You didn't put a shift in off the ball, I need players closing opponents down."

Had he said that then most on here would be backing Dunc's decision.

Paul Birmingham
200 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:33:55
Great spirit, attitude, doing the basics, and being hard to beat.

Made up and a shame we didn't quite see out the game for the win, but all in all, injuries considered, it's been an outstanding week.

The club is getting the pride back and the players are playing for the shirt.

Leicester is gonna be a tough game, but I believe we can beat them.

Ian Riley
201 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:38:20
Kean is done at Everton. The lad lacks confidence, strange country, and no family around him. He was humiliated and yes how would any of us react? He is a talented young player with no confidence in a team previously lacking confidence.

How to treat a player? Yes, it's okay, it's Duncan, and I like Duncan... but that call may prevent any permanent position as manager at this club.

It was embarrassing to watch that and yes, all the players would have taken note. Well done on a well-earned point today.

Paul A Smith
202 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:39:15
Great points, Karl Meighan.

How Arteta is a better candidate than Ferguson, I will never know? "Because he has worked with Pep" is a nonsense answer.

Brian Harrison
203 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:41:57
Nobody knows if Duncan is the right man for the long term, but you can't fault the way he has galvanised the team in the short time he has been involved. Mason Holgate has been terrific whether in defence or midfield like he was today.

I know many say Duncan isn't tactically aware well he has played a system of 4-4-2 which none of the last 4 managers have tried, and is getting success from this system. What we know is with Ferguson in charge these players will have to give 100% and nothing below that will be tolerated. The Kean substitution made that abundantly clear, that message has gone out loud and clear to everyone at the club.

I also think that maybe Silva didn't deserve all the responsibility for our poor showing, and our Director of Football should in my opinion have gone as well. He bought Kean, Iwobi and Bernard – all a complete waste of money.

Remember those critisizing Duncan for his subbing of Kean, Silva pulled him off after only 45 minutes in a league game, so maybe Kean isn't learning the lesson. I am sure, if there is a next time for Kean under Ferguson, we will see a different approach, unless he doesn't want to be here, in which case, come January, he will have gone back to Italy.

Paul A Smith
204 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:44:52
Ferguson's primary concern is the result. If someone is not contributing after watching a dying squad pull their tripe out, they deserve a kick.

The lad gets a lot of money, I imagine; he owes us at least some effort.

John Daley
205 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:45:20
When you’re down to the bare bones and fumbling around for bodies to even fill up the bench then first order of business for whoever steps out onto the pitch is to bust a gut.

Kean needed to come on and carry on in the vein of Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin. He needed to pressure, harry and run the United defence. He needed to track back whenever United broke forward. He needed to be a running, jumping, jostling nuisance.

Apart from picking the ball up near the halfway line a couple of times and clumsily throwing himself into one tackle, he contributed fuck all and wandered around aimlessly in a vital period of the game when his teammates who, Baines apart, had been on from the first whistle continued to work their plums off. Apparently he had 9 touches, won none of the five ‘duels’ he was involved in and completed one pass in the 19 minutes he was on the pitch. Unfortunate for him personally that he was subbed back off, but as the least effective and least involved at that point then he can’t have too much complaint at being pulled.

People have continually tried to make out we have a future world-beater on our hands on the back of a handful of past appearances for Juventus and him looking more out of place and bemused in a blue shirt than Charlton Heston did in fur budgie smugglers after waking up on the Planet Of The bastard Apes. He may well have talent to burn but, so far, he’s kept it well hidden and looked about as likely to spark as a cheap plazzy lighter plucked out the bog. He’s not shown anything of note to date to even begin to justify the hype or transfer fee paid. Yet people continually clamour for him to start games, or come on off the bench and complain and bleat when he’s subbed back off after making no impact whatsoever.

Gobshites like Andy Gray (who put adding a few zeros on his Sky contract above Everton) saying “You could have given him a rollocking from the touchline and told him to get moving a little bit more but I don't know why he's done that. If someone like Mourinho, Klopp or Guardiola had done that we would be thinking 'why has he done that? But these guys are experienced coaches and there would be a reason. Even those guys wouldn't have just blanked him”. Well, saying Ferguson could have bollocked Kean and told him to get moving more suggests..err.. you didn’t think he was moving enough? You just said you don’t know why he did it, which is exactly the fucking same as wondering ‘why did he do it?’ if any of the aforementioned trio had actually done it, and he obviously had a reason, even if you can’t fathom it, rather than just pulling Keans number out of an envelope randomly, you cave troll from The Lord Of The Rings looking sexist arl relic.

If that’s not bad enough you then have compassionate ex-redshite John Arne Riise showing the caring nature that runs through the core of all Kopites like pollution-ridden seaside place names through a piss-ant stick of rock: “Sometimes in football you have to think about the human part. He's destroying this young boy's confidence. He doesn't even shake his hand. He's a young boy - give him a hug. You don't do that. It doesn't matter how important the game is you have to think about the person."

No, not for me. During the final period of a vital Premier League game with Everton hovering just above the relegation places and needing every point they can to drag themselves out of the shit, the sole thing on the managers mind should be securing the result for the club and the travelling fans, nothing else. The fragilities of an individual players confidence or the effect an ear-pull might have on their ego should be a distant consideration. At that stage it’s all about game-management, not man-management.

Kean isn’t in desperate need of ‘a hug’ to kickstart his Everton career, he merely needs to pull his head out of his arse, exhale the smoke prematurely blown up there and take a long hard look at the sort of effort and performances his much maligned contemporary Calvert-Lewin has been putting in. Then he needs to show the determination and resolve to do the same, instead of taking the easy route of getting a titty-lip on and listening to those telling him he should feel so, so hard done by simply because his manager did what he thought was necessary to stop the opposition nicking three points at the death.


Brent Stephens
206 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:45:38
Just come in from the game and wasn't sure about Pickford and the goal we conceded. Just one look tells me he had no chance with that.

A very good point, with such a weakened squad. Holgate and Calvert-Lewin excellent. The back 4 all very solid. Richarlison a good shift. Hell, we were all good! Onwards and upwards!

Joe McMahon
207 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:46:01
Brian @203, just adding to what you said, We stopped playing 4-4-2 when Moyes arrived. Who can forget AJ running to the corner flag to get the ball?
Brent Stephens
208 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:47:27
And we set off United on the wrong foot giving the impression we would be lined up 5-4-1. A few minutes in and it's clearly 4-4-2. I loved the way the two up front supported each other.
Bill Gall
209 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:49:01
This game proved a couple of things: (a) the players are capable of being motivated, and (b) Duncan Ferguson showed what has been missing, and that is discipline is required if you want to play for him, and as he emphasizes, the badge.

We have been complaining for weeks about the lack of effort, poor tactics, and the manager standing on the line with his arms folded, wondering what to do next, so it is a refreshing change to have someone on the line with a game plan, expecting the players to contribute as asked.

After the game they showed a couple of occasions where Kean lost the ball in the Man Utd half and Ferguson was screaming at him to chase back, and Kean just strolled. Even the pundits in the studio reckoned Ferguson done the right thing in pulling him, and said, as a young 19-year-old, he has got to learn, and do what he is asked.

Julian Exshaw
210 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:52:04
All credit to all of them out there today. They made Man Utd look very ordinary. To think we had half a team out! They battled magnificently.

This is impressive stuff from Ferguson. Goodison should be on fire on Wednesday. There may be Christmas cheer yet.

The only black spot for me was the taking off of Kean. That will hardly do the lad any good, in fact it was embarrassing for him.

Paul Hewitt
211 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:55:56
Believe me, when I was 19 (now that's some years ago) and working on building sites, I had a hell of a lot worse done and said to me than Kean did. You just have to take it and get on. Plus I wasn't earning £55k a week.
Nick White
212 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:56:15
No player is bigger than the club.

In 2 games, we have pride back. Brilliant job so far, Dunc!

Peter Neilson
213 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:11
Two games on the trot where the players worked their socks off. Today Holgate and Calvert-Lewin were great. Duncan has restored pride and belief. The last couple of games have actually been enjoyable –something I'd almost forgotten at a match. I don't know if he's the long-term answer... maybe a few more games will provide proof.

As for comments on not being a Champions League side with him, blimey bit of a stretch to pin that one on Duncan. Onward to Wednesday and a raucous Goodison.

Charles McCann
214 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:28
Terrible decision to bring on and then take off Kean. What was Ferguson thinking? He says it was to kill some time.

That game was there for the taking. We need a decent manager in there ASAP Arteta for me would be great. Yes, I love Duncan's passion but he's obviously not ready yet to be in charge. Come on Moshiri get this sorted.

Billy Roberts
215 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:57:40
John Daley @205,

Exactly, I really don't think anything more needs to be said. You said it all.

Bravo

Steve Guy
216 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:58:28
Well said, John Daley...
Brent Stephens
217 Posted 15/12/2019 at 18:58:59
If Moise Kean wasn't doing what Duncan had asked him to do, then I think on balance (just) that Duncan's action was not unreasonable. But / and there should now be a massive cuddle from Duncan and an attempt to boost Kean's confidence and application. Both actions assume the manager knows the player better than we do and how he is likely to react.
Brian Wilkinson
218 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:01:09
100 per cent effort, nothing less, fair play to Dunc for taking a player off who was fresh and not helping one bit to the other players who ran their knackers off.

For those calling it harsh, here are the stats to back Dunc's decision.

Kean won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.

Niasse, in contrast, won 50% of his duels and did not lose possession once while making two tackles.

Barry Rathbone
219 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:01:58
Well in, Dunc! Usually, a depleted squad is excuse central for a 3- or 4-goal whipping with this crew but not this time.

As for Kean, he needs his head kicking in if not trying or ignoring instructions. Hopefully Dunc gets him in the office and tells him straight that, if he can't shape up, then he gets shipped out.

A gentle headlock and swift smite to the forehead might just wake the pampered prince up.

Denis Richardson
220 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:02:43
Sorry haven't read any comments but what a performance today'.

Simple system and everyone putting in a shift. So so obvious and such a massive difference to Silva. Just get the players up for it and make it easy for them to understand. We do have decent players, just needs a manager to get the best out of them.

Calvert-Lewin got MotM but mine was actually Holgate by a margin. Playing at Old Trafford in (I believe) central midfield for the first time in the senior side and putting in such an assured performance. Really stepping up to the mark when needed.

They had some decent chances that they fluffed and var could have ruled out our goal but it's high time we got some luck our side.

Shame about Digne as he's going to be out for a couple of weeks and I worry about Baines being able to play 3 games in a week during the Xmas period. However, as always next game is the most important and I can't see Brenda not taking it seriously.

Still, great point today and 100% we would not have gotten 4 points from the last two games had Silva still been in charge.

Keep Dunc for now and take the necessary time to get a decent manager (and see if Dunc fancies it after a few games). No rush needed and please tell Moyes to get lost.

Bobby Mallon
221 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:05:02
Then why put him on in the first place John Daley. Tosun Martina ffs Niasse we all know he runs his bollocks off, not very good, but great effort and attitude. Young Gordon was there point to prove. Dunc has been a breath of fresh air but he was wrong in how he treated Kean.
Peter Mills
222 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:05:07
I'm very surprised at the critical comments on here.

This was a proper performance, the type of committed display that has been absent for far too long. Of course it was not faultless, but with the players available, and the circumstances over recent weeks, it was magnificent. It fully justified some fist-pumping from the manager, someone about whom I have been critical in the past.

And if the manager decided to sub a sub for the greater benefit of the team, good on him. I feel a bit sorry for Kean – if you read Darren #100, Moise was probably wandering round thinking “Who the hell is Stacey F?”

George Cumiskey
223 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:06:21
If Klopp would of done what Ferguson did to Kean to any of his players the whole of ToffeeWeb would of been up in arms, slagging him off, but because it was big Dunc it's tactical genius.
Ian Riley
224 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:07:39
John #205. I think we are forgetting about the team Kean came from. League trophies galore, champion league and loved by the fans working under a top manager. He comes to a mid-table club with an average team and manager. Must have been a shocker to say the least. Let's not worry though. He will be back home soon scoring regularly and we will be paying his salary as he will be going on loan.

A top manager understands the coaching of young talented players and experienced ones. If Everton are to get young talented players we must have a experienced manager to coach them and treat them accordingly.

Richard Mason
225 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:08:18
Yeah, happy with the point. Could have nicked it. I felt he could have taking Iwobi off before they scored; he seemed just out of steam.

Could have brought Gordon on, I was screaming for it. I feel for Kean but I hope he is man enough to take it on the chin.
Paul Hewitt
226 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:09:31
George@223. He substituted him, hardly crime of the century.
Ryan Holroyd
227 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:09:35
Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson
Brent Stephens
228 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:10:35
John #128 "If that's Mourinho or Klopp, he starts Kean on Wednesday".

Yes! The smack in the gob today, and on Wednesday the show of confidence ("go out and show them what you can do, lad").

Marcus Leigh
229 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:11:09
Dunc is wringing every last bit out of the players at his disposal - commitment, resilience, energy, passion, determination, pride, teamwork... What else could you ask for from an Everton manager? Keep it going, big man. Keep its going.
Bobby Mallon
230 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:12:32

"It wasn't because of Moise Kean's performance it was just because I needed to make a substitution to kill a bit of time," Ferguson told Sky Sports.
Well if it wasn’t down to his performance why not bring Martina on for a knackered Richarlison or DCL.
David Price
231 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:13:18
Love the attitude of the players today.
My only complaint would be the treatment of the youngster.my only thought is hes upset the club in some way.
He did well in the short time he was on the field cut him some slack he has huge potential
George Cumiskey
232 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:13:27
No Paul it wasn't but like I said if Klopp would of done it, it would of been.
Ryan Holroyd
233 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:14:00
Unreal, or perhaps not actually, people on here having a pop at Duncan Ferguson. He's come in and galvanised the whole club in 10 days and some people want to slag him because he took off Moise Kean who has been atrocious since he came.

Have a day off

Jake Ciszek
234 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:14:47
Just two weeks back, I didn’t care what the line-up was. If I looked, it was mostly to groan about Schneiderlin being in the line-up or the odd changes we’d made. I didn’t try to watch the game. I didn’t try to catch the score. I maybe looked at the score afterwards. What was the point when you lose to Norwich and all the other promoted sides???

In two games, there’s already more memories than the last two years. First, a show of heart to beat Chelsea. Then drawing (almost winning) against Man Utd with 5!!! midfielders out and down two defenders! Honestly, who cares about the next manager? Who cares about Kean? Thanks to Duncan Ferguson for moments like these.

George Cumiskey
236 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:18:36
Bobby Mallon or Iwobi or Davis who were doing nothing.
John Raftery
237 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:21:11
A very good result from a very good team performance. Regarding Moise Kean, I remarked to the guy standing next to me that after only fifteen minutes on the pitch he looked ready to drop. It was still surprising he was with drawn but not entirely so. He just wasn’t doing the job required for the team.

I thought the trio of Davies, Holgate and DCL were at the core of this performance. They have come through the under 23s together, understand each other’s play and fight for each other. They can be a big part of the club’s future providing they are as well managed as they are at the moment.

Andy Crooks
238 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:21:25
Jay@ 184. Yeah, fair cop. Have to admit, though, and this is a worrying development, Ray was not the only one you got with the Ancelotti link.
I think I need to back off Dunc now. You and I both wrote pieces celebrating him last week. I have been on this thread lamenting the return of the old Duncan and doing exactly what I talked about regretting.
You get what you see with him and four points from games we would likely have lost with Silva makes focusing on this sub today look churlish.
Tommy Surgenor
239 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:22:17
Not gonna dwell on points already made above but I believe DF was 100% correct to do what he did. If your not putting it in the off you come. Happens in amateur football so why not professional.
Jerome Shields
240 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:24:15
Could only listen to the match on the radio as I was traveling. Thought putting in Holgate for Schids would be a good idea before the game if Mina was fit. Could not believe that he would be so good in the role.

Thought Kean was subbed for not following instructions. When he originally came on, he went into the far wing. Richardson chase after him, to tell him to go into the central role. Obviously he had not listened or understood the instructions he was given by Duncan.

He will know to listen the next time, and so will other players.

The comments on Pickford on the Radio where not complimentary, poor concentration being the main problem

Duncan's interview for the Managers job is going well. It's Leicester at Goodison next. They will know that they will be in a game, that's for sure.


Richard Nelson
241 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:24:44
…should have been Iwobi as well...no pace, jogs back, let Utd player run past him in build up for their goal …!
George Cumiskey
242 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:25:32
Tommy then why didn't he take Iwobi or Davis who ?
Gordon Adie
243 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:27:38
Andy Crooks, he does not want the manager's job, why would he with people like you always growling? As for the 19 year old millionaire, I have no sympathy, he was taken off for a reason. What that reason was is known only to the boss and coaching staff, we can only guess. Poor man management my arse. Why are some people on here so certain in their views and never concede that they may be mistaken?
Andy Crooks
244 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:27:40
John @ 237, that is a very interesting point. I recall coming on as a sub in a game when I was trying to get a low level football career and finding that nerves made me feel like I had divers boots on.
He should be super fit but maybe anxiety is destroying him.
If so, he needs an arm around the shoulder.
Eddie Dunn
245 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:30:41
Bobby @221, come on you can't have it both ways. Duncan gave him a chance and it didn't work out. Next time he will throw Tosun on instead.
The lad hasn't been trusted by Silva or Ferguson. It has to be down to his attitude in training. When you see how Dunc reacted to the efforts of DCL last week, you see that he appreciates hard graft.
I don't think Ferguson was trying to look clever, he was just desperate for us to hang on to the precious point or nick all three. Kean was jeopardising the plan. He came off in disbelief and looked rather sulky. For me, it's tough-titty. He needs to knuckle down and show his boss and his teammates that he wants to work hard.
Jer Kiernan
246 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:33:59
Let us see how Kean reacts to this before making judgements, I couldnt see the lack of effort on his part but if there was then and there is problems with the lad at FF ?

Then DF did everything correct for me

1- He took him back out of a team totally depleted with injuries fighting to hold a draw ( all hands on deck )

2- He did manage to waste some time

3- He didnt give the Sky vultures the story they wanted (by claiming the timewasting ) it will I hope be dealt with in the dressing room

As above if Mourinho did same it would be managerial genius, 4 Great points but still beside the drop zone, I had believed and stated well over 3 months ago that Silva was hurting the club and should have been removed

Roll on Wednesday I for one fancy it COYB,

John Graham
247 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:35:32
The manager ( Duncan) has made the decision for the good of the team no matter what anyone else thinks. That’s his job.
He has been brave enough to make his own decision on what he has seen and how he wants to play the last couple of minutes.
Niasse is a very unpredictable player and maybe he thought with the pressure we were under he just might cause a few different problems to bring us the win.
Yes it could deflate the confidence of Kean, but also it will show him what is required to get a place in the team.
Very brave decision which shows Duncan is his own man and possibly shows he has the makings of a great manager.
Matt Edwards
248 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:36:13
Jerome #240 - that's exactly how I saw the Kean situation too. I was at the game and as soon as he ran on Richarlason had to have words with him and tell him where to play. Richarlison had been speaking to DF only 30 secs earlier so clearly had the correct instructions. Either Kean wasn't listening to DF or he's just very raw and doesn't fully comprehend the various roles he might be required to play. He's also surprisingly 'chunky' for a 19 year old - I don't know if he lifts a lot of weights but he seemed to struggle with the pace of the game and having to track runners.
Ray Said
249 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:38:31
Kean should look over at Niasse and draw a lesson. Niasse has half the talent and has been treated in a way by Koeman and Silva that may have broken lesser men, never really given a chance by either of those managers and yet he always gives 100% anytime he is called upon. He runs, he commits himself, he harasses defenders into mistakes and he follows management instructions. Let Moise try those things and he may fulfil his undoubted potential.
Christy Ring
250 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:40:18
A few comments criticising Duncan for substituting Kean, where they showed a few incidents of Kean losing the ball, and strolling back, instead of bursting a gut, the pundits even agreed with Dunc, just admit you don't like Ferguson.
Richard Nelson
251 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:41:49
The Manager gave him instructions when he put him on ( never mind the lack of effort compared to DCL ), he didn't follow them...explains the "blanking"...have seen Klopp do it with Henderson so the message surely is, don't mess with Big Dunc !
John Reynolds
252 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:43:44
Great point, great scrapping, great commitment again from Dunc and all bar possibly one of the players. Sad to see our young £30m+ wonderkid getting dragged off in such humiliating fashion. BUT. Dunc is managing the side and what he says goes.

We’ve seen lots, if not most in blue underperform massively under 4 managers now and there’s been loads of wailing and gnashing of teeth on TW about it. Players who haven’t been seen to put the effort in have been derided and vilified. Justifiably so in some cases.

As I see it, Dunc has drawn a line and it doesn’t matter who you are, what you cost or where you play, if you don’t try your utmost to do what’s asked of you, if you disregard your instructions or simply aren’t able to follow them, then you get hooked.

This is a fantastic development and I salute him. Dunc has given us back our fight and is giving us back our pride. I’m so looking forward to being in Goodison on Wednesday night to see him lead us out.

Nil satis nisi optimum.

John Boon
253 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:53:36
Far better in every way, despite the injuruies. WE played United the right way by not giving them time or space. Remember they have just beaten Spurs and Man C. The Kean situation will be looked into, and hopefully he may even learn from it. I am a huge supporter of Ferguson. He has done brilliantly, but I also don't think he needed to make that change,

On a different note. I read all the post from the first to last. I am amazed when I realize that many early posters are actually posting while the game is being played, I have been watching Everton for over seventy years and I will admit that I watch every game in a state of total ANXIETY whether we are winning or losing.

Watching the game live is usually easier for me than watching on TV. When watching on TV I have the option of leaving the room, which I often do when the tension just gets too much. However I just couldn't imagine typing or giving my written words during a game. The only emotion I can give into is screaming at the TV or giving unasked for advice to any player who dares to make a mistake. I am also likely to tell anybody who is with me watching the game that they are brilliant or stupid, depending on whether they agree with me or not.

I am baffled to think that some fans are able to actually say during the game,"Oh I must post TW to tell them that that last tackle deserved a card or that So and So should never put on a Blue shirt again"

I strain my nerves for ninety minutes to watch a game and it takes me a full week to be ready for the next one. In a strange way I enjoy the anxiety but only my mouth works once the game starts. My fingers become far too numb to type. MInd you my wife thinks that me and my fanatical Evertonian sons are nuts and in need of counselling.

Richard Nelson
254 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:57:53
If.. Duncan Ferguson lasts one more game...or the rest of the season...even his detractors would have to admit that his tactics, preparation & passion have pressed a few buttons...!
Tony Twist
255 Posted 15/12/2019 at 19:58:46
Looking at some of the stats for Kean it was clear it wasn't working for him and Omar with his energy was the obvious choice to take over. Kean hasn't been managed well but this should be the making or breaking of him. Harsh though but it is the managers job to do the right thing and those decisions, done correctly, leads to success.

With regards our next manager, Dunc still says he is not ready, it should be a world class appointment and should be brought in deliberately to mentor Duncan. I think it would be worthwhile to clarify this in the new manager's first press conference with it being stressed that he is here for...say three years and it will be Dunc that will be the next Everton manager. Stability achieved, no more uncertainty.

I want Dunc to eventually be our longest serving manager, with a wealth of experience gained from these next few years, bringing trophies and premierships to this club.

We can live in hope!

Karl Meighan
256 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:01:04
I havent seen a lot of Kean but what are these talents he has, he has pace yes but if anyone can produce a clip of him going past players showing great control of a football or even producing good quality passing I for one will be suprised.

What we bought imo was a raw kid who finished a few chances playing in a side that creates chances for fun.

Were a struggling side and there is nothing to suggest Kean will create a goal out of nothing or produce a bit of magic, a poorer version of Lukaku without his goals and nothing to suggest why a big price was paid for him.

Anthony Dove
257 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:01:11
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Brian Williams
258 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:01:20
All that's required to sort the "Kean incident" out is for the training staff to sit the player down and show him the video(s) of his play and point out what he did rather than what he was supposed to do.
Might be worth also showing him similar situations on video where other players did do what they were supposed to during the game.
Then explain to him that the team, the club, the result, is everything.
It's then up to him to decide if he wants to work hard and succeed, or sulk and go somewhere else.
All this can be done cordially and professionally but the message still needs to get across that you follow the managers plan or you don't play.
That, to my mind, is as simple as Duncan has made things for the players for the last two matches.

Minimum requirement is maximum effort!

Ryan Holroyd
259 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:02:40
Yeah George, let's take off our only midfielder. Clueless you
Robert Tressell
260 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:05:12
Surprised to see any criticism of Dunc over the withdrawal of Kean. Seems he was hooked for not doing as he was told. If so, fair enough. Kean will hopefully get other chances to show his attacking verve (im a big fan) but when you're seeing the game out at old Trafford you need to stick to the plan you've been given.
Raymond Fox
261 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:09:09
I don't get the love in with Kean, he's been pretty ordinary when he's got onto the field, which is not that often anyway.
I fear he's going to be a disappointment and considering the hype, I thought it was suprising that Juventus let him go in the first place.

In his defence he's young, probably doesn't know what a days work is, which is not his fault I know, he's also in a foreign country with a different lingo. Add the joy of a north west in winter when youve come over from sunny Italy.

He now needs to get his head down and show what he can do.

Jerome Shields
262 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:11:09
Matt#248

That's exactly how it was described on the radio. I thought it a bit unusual that Kean did not know where he was playing. You seen it yourself at the game.

One poster who was behind the dugout clearly heard Duncan repeatedly telling Kean to stay forward in Centre forward role and not to track back.

Duncan imo wanted a high attacking line, so as to keep United from giving support play to their midfield and attack. Kean was not doing that and could have cost Everton the game. Duncan unlike Silva will not hesitate making a decision. No means no when Big Dunc says it.

He has high emotional intelligence under pressure.

He had to come off and will learn a valuable lesson. He may not be match fit either, but he was brought on to make a impact, so no excuses.

Needs to knuckle down.

Haven't seen how Holgate played. yet. He is a far better footballer than Keane and Mina stats wise. Glad he was given a chance to play in the League Cup. Which was a stoke of luck for Everton in hinsight.

Jon Withey
263 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:22:23
Seems like Ferguson was agitated at him for not following the game plan and lost patience - which we know he does...

Another Lookman or Barkley ? It does seem that we haven't been able to get the best out of youngsters since Koeman - that has lingered.

A bit like Lookman, I feel we've barely seen him play which is a shame.

I'm sure his mum is delighted.

I'm backing Ferguson though, having players swan around like the club doesn't matter is getting old.

Tim Rydings
264 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:24:55
Regarding the Kean incident, Dunc stated on Sky he had been removed to waste time. However, when asked the question on BBC Radio 5 later, he made no mention of this, citing the need for ‘fresh legs’ as the reason he was replaced. He’d only been on the pitch 18 mins! Somethings not right and totally blanking him when he came off doesn’t support either statement. I’m supporting Duncan at this time but he needs to keep his story straight even if neither maybe true!
Brian Williams
265 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:25:51
On the subject of Lookman (post 263) and the club "not having a clue" etc etc etc, which was said by many at the time of his departure,
It would appear the club did/does indeed have a clue.
Paul A Smith
266 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:02
George, if Klopp done what Ferguson done the whole country would have agreed with it.

The media would praise it and call it putting the team first. Because it is Ferguson the ex hard case pro with no brain (as so many seem to think) its no big thing for the media to praise.

They would rather comment on him taking his jacket off.

Glad there is a few above showing more concern about Pickford too. He is an accident waiting to happen every week.

Mike Price
267 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:55
Pickford just can’t make the difference, a decent keeper saves that, he just can’t steal us a win.
Sell him, get Forster in and move on from this clown.
John Reynolds
268 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:30:58
Oh, and the other reason to praise Dunc over the substitution is that when he was offered the opportunity, he refused to criticise Kean or hang him out to dry.

Also, I only heard the first half on radio (watched the 2nd), but the commentators were talking about how bitterly cold it was and how Dunc was the only man in the stadium not wearing an overcoat. Then, when it started to lash freezing rain, Dunc took his suit jacket off. 💪

Im going all-in on the Cult of Personality with Dunc. Make him accept the job.

Paul Tran
269 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:31:36
Hey Darren #100, where have you been? You OK?
Andrew Laird
270 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:31:54
Made up with a point, another committed showing from a squad on its arse is the best anybody could of genuinely asked for.
Agree with John Daley about Kean, although I believe he has enormous potential, he just hasn’t shown enough whatsoever (fantastic to have you back posting by the way, been pretty fucking drab on here of late!). it’s make or break, sink or swim for Kean. He’s a big powerful boy with holes in his game but, as yet, he hasn’t put himself about, hasn’t looked like he is working on anything and has looked jaded and unprepared. Hopefully Duncan “ripping a strip” by subbing him is the making of him, or he could take the easy way out and go to a club in a slow league who don’t need him to graft. Stay and prove us wrong young man.
Dave Abrahams
271 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:36:43
Darren (100), nice to see you back, hope you enjoyed the game.
Christy Ring
272 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:37:34
Holgate's performance today, could be the answer to a problem position, his strength and drive in midfield beside Davies, was immense.
Tony Abrahams
273 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:38:08
He says he tried Kean, on the right, but to be fair to him this isn’t his position, so he swapped him with DCL. Darren was at the game, and says he could hear Ferguson, telling Kean, to play centre-forward, before he must have decided that the kid, wasn’t staying upfront, and so needed replacing with someone who would stay up, and play centre-forward.

I can Imagine Duncan, sitting down with Kean tomorrow, and telling him that he was also a young footballer, who never always worked hard enough, and has regretted it ever since.

“It might have been bad what I did to you yesterday son, but trust me, it might just turn out the best thing that anyone has ever done for you, even if you don’t feel like this is the case now. Go and prove me wrong Moise, but because I already believe in you, I’d prefer it if you proved me right”!

By the way Darren, I’m glad you’re okay mate because some of your mates were getting worried about you.Honest!

Ian Linn
274 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:38:30
Kean according to the BBC, 20 mins on the pitch.

0 shots, 9 touches of the ball, won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.

Pretty poor.

Shaun Laycock
275 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:48:22
"Wasn't up the pace of the game" = not trying hard enough. You've got to put in a shift if you want minutes sunshine.
Paul Tran
276 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:51:08
Duncan doesn't need to 'keep his story straight'. Appropriate that at the home of his namesake, he keeps it in house while making his feelings clear when he hauled Kean off. Praise in public, bollock in private as SAF once said.
Mark Williams
277 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:54:21
Duncan made the right decision with the sub IMO - he used an option available to protect the point.
Where he can learn and improve - re-consider agreeing to a pitch side interview without a better answer to the obvious question.

This discussion may have different if he had said something like “I asked him to take up a different position, and tried to change things at the same time. It wasn’t working and my job was to protect the point, at the very least. In hindsight, the communication wasn’t good enough and that has to be on me. I hope Moise can accept that he was sacrificed for the good of the team”

As for the snub, it didn’t look good, granted, but 2 points:
- I believe he did exactly the same to Richi last week
- could’ve been much worse if Moise had reacted badly to him in front of the cameras (this is Duncan Ferguson we are talking about after all)

I suspect that the next week will tell us plenty

Max Murphy
278 Posted 15/12/2019 at 20:54:55
There seems to be many on here who profess to be experts on ´man-management’e.g Andy Crooks et al.

Ferguson is currently the manager of Everton FC and he made a decision to substitute the sub, Kean. He is being called a bully. What utter rubbish!

No one knows the reason, but I for one back the manager and trust him. Kean has made headlines at the club for all the wrong reasons. We've just completed 2 great performances following a season of unbelievable tripe. So enjoy it - and stop this senseless lambasting of our manager,
Andrew James
279 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:05:40
I like the Holgate move. We've been lacking simple solutions for a while. It would have made OGS have to react and deviate from his own shape while crowding out their runs through the middle and giving us aerial protection higher up the pitch.
George Cumiskey
280 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:06:08
Ryan it doesn't matter were he plays take him off if he's not doing it like Davis and Iwobi, by the way where are all the Ferguson detractors from a very short time ago gone ?are they hibernating or all of sudden have they changed their minds ? Another conundrum.
Jer Kiernan
281 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:20:09
Also to note regards the Keane sub etc we were actively trying to win the game at OT with a depleted squad in the dying minutes

The Big man has yet to put a foot wrong for me to be honest, is only 2 games but what he has done said between games etc,

Almost surreal tbh

More of the same on Wed gents

Mike Connolly
282 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:24:39
Well today we seen another battling performance from our injury hit team. As for the sub, Iwobi should have been taken off. He stunk the place out today. However, another point to safety. A big difference from the Derby, we are actually getting some pride back into the team. Carry on like this Duncan could help the board not to rush in for any old manager. If he keeps getting us points, he could end up with the job himself
Ryan Holroyd
283 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:24:46
Ask them George - I'm not a Ferguson detractor. You talk out your arse all you like.

Duncan Duncan Ferguson Duncan Duncan Ferguson

Martin Mason
284 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:27:00
Exceptional performances from several players especially Mason Holgate, DCL, Tom Davies, Leighton Baines. Mina and Alex Iwobe. Great performance all around, great result and why have we not made Ferguson manager yet? We moan a lot but we should moan about this.
Robert Tressell
285 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:28:16
I still have high hopes for Kean. He's v young and it's been a dysfunctional team from the word go. It still is. The good results are based on new found spirit and work ethic - not quality football. If he'd been introduced into a well drilled machine in August then we might have seen more of what he can do. Thierry Henry looked ropey in year one - as did Vidic and Evra (different positions obviously). Worth persevering with.
John Keating
286 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:37:23
Great result and in our position that's all that matters. Regardless of what all our resident technical tactical experts will no doubt tell us what Ferguson did wrong and where and what we needed to do better, with injuries and position Ferguson had been proved to be spot on.

Some have been feeling sorry for Silva saying how unlucky he was with injuries and decisions. Well we're having more injuries and performing. Regarding luck, well sometimes in football you make your own luck through hard work, effort and committment. Nobody can say Silvas 18 months showed more than Fergusons 2 games.

I think the boards biggest problem is not who will replace Ferguson but when he will replace Ferguson.
Maybe we need Ferguson for the next few games until we are clear of the bottom.

Pat Kelly
287 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:42:51
It's refreshing to have a manager leading from the front, not sulking in the dug out. What a difference leadership makes.
Martin Mason
288 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:43:37
We should make it known that Duncan Ferguson should be in the lead position because what he is doing is real, everything else is fantasy.
Peter Neilson
289 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:48:44
A more reasonable reflection on Duncan Ferguson would focus on his bringing Mason Holgate into midfield today. He played a blinder. Only player today who I still don't understand is Iwobi. He seems to have little awareness of the game being played around him.
Tony Abrahams
290 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:48:47
I’ve questioned why Duncan Ferguson has seen off four first team managers and yet still retained his position as first team coach many times George@280.

I’ve asked did Koeman, Allardyce and Silva, say they only want the Everton job, if Duncan stays, and still think that it is very bizarre that a top club, have changed manager so many times, and yet still retained Ferguson as their first team coach?

Ive asked if Ferguson was something special, someone the club were afraid of losing, because why else would they have constantly retained his services? Although I never actually thought he would be given a chance, simply because he never looked like he did much, and the rumours were all about his nickname being BBC.

But, when Duncan, was given the job, I did say he could definitely give us more than David Moyes, simply because he’s been a top player, (when he wanted to be) and he definitely has a lot more genuine affection for Everton, than Moyes has ever had.

I remember Moyes tearing a strip off Jesper Blanquist, who wasn’t happy with being subbed, and I saw a similar thing today when Ferguson made a point of showing everyone that “the team” is well more important than hurting someone’s feelings, and I think that this is something that most Evertonians are going to really respond to over the next few days?

I think Duncan Ferguson has been part of an unprofessional culture, (jobs for the boys) that has been part of Everton, for way too long, but he’s proving how much he loves our club, especially when he says that Everton, need the best manager in the world!

Paul Hewitt
291 Posted 15/12/2019 at 21:59:07
What if Kean had stayed on and lost the ball( which he was doing), and united went and scored a winner. We would all be on here moaning.
Alan McKie
292 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:04:13
We will not win a league title with Dom, Tom and Mason, but what they have done is shown pride determination and professionalism in a team bereft of several senior players, and played as though it matters. Every player should be of the same ilk, they get very well paid to do so.

If young Moise Kean had any interest in being the future of this club, he should burst his gut for us, and get all the fans behind him. If he's not interested piss him off back to Italy, pronto.

In the situation we are in at present, I would rather have Niasse, who has been pissed about by almost everyone. He may lack class, panache, but gives everything for the cause. Who would you prefer in the trenches with you???

Andy Crooks
293 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:04:37
Paul, what if kean had stayed on, scored the winner in injury time, restored his confidence, become a hero. Then we wouldn't all be on moaning about him. We'd be moaning about Pickford.
Raymond Fox
294 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:07:41
With regard to making Ferguson permanent manager, I wouldn't have reservations about that happening at all.

Kevin Kilbane was saying that Duncan is a very intelligent guy who is well versed in the game, as he should be after the years he's spent in various positions at the club. He appears to have that aura of respect that players will buy into, in other words he's a leader.

The only problem with that is you can't make him take the position if he still doesn't want it full time.

Paul Tran
295 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:15:34
Tony #290, maybe Duncan's slipped through the net? I've always been fascinated by the lack of presence in the club from the 1985 squad. Real, ruthless winners. Sheedy coached the kids, then mysteriously left. Interestingly, he always said that Duncan was a really good coach.

Maybe Duncan's done his badges, used his ex-player/'legend' status, kept quiet and is now taking his chance?

I hope so.

Paul Hewitt
296 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:24:39
Andy @293. That's something we will never know. But I find some comments about Duncan over the Kean sub laughable. We have just taken 4 points from 6, which – if the previous manager was still in charge – would be zero.
Hugh Jenkins
297 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:27:10
Charles (214). Why Arteta?

He is totally unproven as a manager.

At least Duncan now has some experience and has shown up very well thus far.

Jerome Shields
298 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:27:57
Tony#290

Duncan just needed a job to support his family and decided there was nothing else for it but to apply himself and knuckle down for who ever the Manager of Everton was. In the words of Shakespeare ' give thy thoughts no voice' Duncan never give a opinion on those around him always concentrating on his job, trying to learn and get better at it over years.

The result is the mentally tuf, motivational, tactically astute, adaptive and authoritative leader that is Duncan Ferguson today. Duncan eats, drinks and sleeps Everton and will never expect any favours.

Moyes allowed Duncan initially to work, on his request, for nothing and then gave him a coaching job on the lowest rung of the coaching ladder. Then Duncan's years of apprenticeship started.

Mike Connolly
299 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:35:31
Paul 296
Spot on
Tony Abrahams
300 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:39:20
A lot of things are written on T/W Paul, some things we agree with, and some things we don’t, and I’ve just had to go back to what Jerome said@262, for something which must count for a lot when considering what we need from an Everton manager, especially if we need this man to give us something which we all crave, and give us something we haven’t had since 1995.

He says Duncan has high emotional intelligence when under pressure, and although I think it’s a bit premature to already come to this conclusion, it’s definitely something that is such a vital commodity, something that definitely separates winners from losers, and its a gift that very few people truly possess.

I’d bet that Duncan knows more than anyone that he could have done a lot more with his career, and now he knows he’s going to be taken seriously, I wonder what he’s thinking now!

Robert Tressell
301 Posted 15/12/2019 at 22:43:51
Alan @ 292. I agree but go further and say we really could win the league with Dom, Tom and Mason (although obviously a long way from that now). They have quality, work ethic and personality. Taking this club forward is about developing them and adding others like them. They've been dismissed as championship players too many times on toffeweb. Uninspiring leadership has been the problem, not them.
Alan McKie
302 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:13:53
Sorry Robert, I didn't mean to belittle the efforts of Tom, Dom and Mason who are very good players. It was a mixture of fingers on the keyboard, brain in gear and a shed full of beer. I am a great supporter of home grown youth since the sixties, with Brian Labone John Hurst Joe Royle Tommy Wright Colin Harvey Jimmy Husband Roger Kenyon and Alan Whittle coming through the ranks. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than seeing young local players making it, as long as you can get a Howard Kendall Alan Ball and a Alex Young to compliment them. I agree what you said My apologies.
Andrew James
303 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:18:05
Andy

When Kean came on we were in the lead. Yet 7 minutes later we concede a goal.

DF looked at what was on the pitch over the next 10 minutes and perhaps saw one of them wasn't battle hardened nor ready and wanted an out ball that would disrupt the opposition.

I am not for one minute saying Kean had anything to do with us being 1-1 but I am saying DF took the decision to secure a much needed point and put on the far more experienced Niasse.

Jerome Shields
304 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:22:00
Tony #300

No-one will ever know what Duncan is thinking. Yesterday Everton where down to the barebones of a squad and today it got worse for a game at Old Trafford. Duncan just carried on with the job and never made any excuses. The only excuse he is making is for Kean, but it will be different when he talks to him tomorrow at Finch Farm.

Joe Corgan
305 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:24:38
Whatever the reason for Ferguson taking off Kean after 18 minutes, the kid looked about a stone overweight and looked knackered after a few minutes on the pitch. That much was clear for all to see.

Ferguson probably isn’t a managerial genius but he’s taken four points from top of the league’s top teams at a time when we badly need them. For me, the substitution showed strong management. Ferguson has also worked with Kean for months and I find it likely that his decision today was based on his overall knowledge of the player and not just what happened in those 18 minutes.

We now have Leicester in the Carabao Cup followed by Arsenal, Burnley, Newcastle and Man City on New Year’s Day. Five games in fifteen days. For me, Ferguson hasn’t quite earned the job til the end of the season yet, but I would advocate giving him those games to see what he can do.

John Reynolds
306 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:30:42
Ah Jon #263 Seriously?

“It does seem that we haven't been able to get the best out of youngsters since Koeman - that has lingered.”

You don't think that Holgate, Davies, and Calvert-Lewin were central to that performance?

Andy Crooks and George, I'd usually think of you as sensible measured contributors. Two games with half a squad against top 6 sides yielding 4 points after what we've had to suffer since August and you're obsessing about an 88th minute substitution? Dunc had every right to make that call.

I've played in goals for 30 years and been a critic of Pickford in the recent past but he can't be blamed for that goal today. It was a fine disguised finish.

For me, Mason was our MotM.

Anthony Newell
307 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:36:24
The Big Man fits the job like a glove. Out of much misery, Everton have been gifted a shining light from right under their noses. Ferguson's been a defibrillator to a dying body.

Loved the appreciation of the travelling Evertonians at the end and the nod to the directors. Passion, one of us, that will do for me, give it to him now!

Simon Dalzell
308 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:41:02
Fantastic the way big Dunc has lifted us at a crucial time, but the more I think about it, this was a disgraceful, very misguided humiliation of a young player. Not a word to him as he left the field, leaving him to trudge off in front of 75.000 Mancs. and millions on TV.

I don't consider this a minor incident. He can't explain this one away, though he has made a feeble attempt.

Brian Wilkinson
309 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:41:23
What about the FA Cup game as well, Joe? It would be nice to see some passion on the touchline for once and get in among them.
Anthony Newell
310 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:47:16
I agree with a previous comment, start Kean for the Leicester game, "Okay, show me what you can do."
Paul Hewitt
311 Posted 15/12/2019 at 23:50:41
Simon @308. You don't consider it a minor incident? Well, I do. player substituted. It's football, it happens. I'm sure when Kean collects his near £200k at the end of the month, he's not worrying about today.
Andy Crooks
312 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:02:20
Good post, Simon. I don't know how any Evertonian can condone the way Duncan Ferguson turned his back on Kean. It was shameful.

All gesture, no substance. Duncan Ferguson.

Bob Parrington
313 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:08:05
Paul, Sounds a wee bit too callous to me. IMO it is not just a question of the cheque book. However, it is what happens in the follow up with the young lad that will be really important. If it's handled badly he will be off to another club sooner rather than later. If it's handled well then it's more likely he'll use the incident as a lesson and get on with showing us all that he can be a great player.
Chris James
314 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:13:05
Wow, some folks here do love to find something to be miserable about. The Moise Kean sub thing is a total storm in a teacup as far as I'm concerned.

This is not the first time someone has been re-subbed and it won't be the last and lets be honest it wasn't as though we were coasting to a victory, this was a very high pressure situation where we needed everyone to be on their mettle to hold on to a point.

So either this genuinely was a tactical sub because Dunc wanted a bit more physical presence to hang on for the final 5 and to waste some time OR he didn't think Kean's attitude/performance was right and he hooked him (the latter seems more realistic tbh). Either way it was his decision to make as manager and he made it - we held on for a point and a multi-millionaire footballer got 5 minutes less than he would've done otherwise.

Ferguson will know the player (and his attitude) very well from being the forward coach and if he intended to have an impact or make a point (which I think he did) he'll understand what it is better than we do. The fact that Kean walked on his own to the changing room rather than going to the bench is hardly an illustration of a great attitude in itself and we need players who are going to give their heart and soul for the club if we're to push on.

None of this is to demonise the young Italian, we know he is a real talent and he's shown in flashes what he could bring to the team despite not having too much time to show what he can do.

That said he hasn't exactly blown the roof off the place and he did genuinely seem a bit off the pace in this game, so maybe he needs more time to acclimatise.

Or just maybe this was a bit of reverse psychology to get Moise chomping at the bit to prove a point over the next few matches?

Gordon Adie
315 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:18:43
Kean chose to take the long walk to the tunnel, he could have joined his team mates on the bench. That says much about his attitude, the lad is a millionaire and has done fuck all to earn it.

Give him a pick and shovel and the poor wee soul would know what earning a living is like in the real world. That's what happens when you give too much, too soon to young lads, they are not hungry and without hunger to succeed, you have nothing.

Dale Rose
316 Posted 15/12/2019 at 00:19:52
Good result today. Regarding Kean, he is a talent, however he didn't look fit today and was blowing a bit after about ten minutes which surprised me.

I also remember hearing Mourhino talking about him. Not long ago, he remained unconvinced about him and in particular the lack of a buy back clause in his contract. Time will tell.

He does strike me as being very petulant. I hope he does live up to expectation.

Steve Brown
317 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:22:45
Simon @ 308, agree it was gratuitous and unnecessary for Dunc to sub Kean and then turn his back on him. Kean is £25m asset and his confidence will be shredded by this.

If it was purely tactical, he would have at least given the kid a consoling pat on the back when he went off rather than ignoring him. Proof right there that it was done in a fit of pique. Hopefully Kean will learn from it as will Duncan.

Andy Crooks
318 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:30:54
Gordon, I get what you are saying. I guess none of them have the first clue about the real world. But, can you not see that Duncan might have done it better? Anyway, Gordon, who knows? Maybe he needed that. To me I just thought, ouch! Time will tell. Kean can either sulk or show Duncan he Is better than him.

It was a fine show from the coach and players, otherwise. Duncan Is an adversity coach. Is he a Champions League coach? Who knows.

Derek Thomas
319 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:31:37
Andy @312; All gesture is right, but plenty of substance, Dunc's face being a picture worth a 1000 words...I asked you to do something and you didn't, couldn't or wouldn't do it. Now F 'go away' - I've got a game not to lose.

Kean; and he doesn't seem to be, what with 2 lots of lateness, is shaping up...If not stopped early...into a Balotelli mini-me.

Silva who was desperate for a goal, for anything, seemed loath to put him in...why was that?

Brands and Ferguson should have a quick pow wow and agree on a course of action.

First off...as he's Brands high profile signing, he's in Brands Office for a severe arse kicking.

(This having been pre-decided) He apologises to The Coach, asks and is granted forgiveness. Arm around the shoulder and a new start (aka, last chance) Vs Leicester or who ever.

Gordon Adie
320 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:33:53
A £25 million asset!!!!!! Mikey Johnstone of Celtic, same age roughly, is ten times the player Kean is. Seriously.
Andy Crooks
321 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:43:48
I hope so, Derek.
Annika Herbert
322 Posted 16/12/2019 at 00:57:15
Gordon@ 320, in the Scottish league Kean may look a much better player too. It's not exactly a powerhouse league is it?
Mike Gaynes
323 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:07:29
Gordon, according to Transfermarkt Mikey Johnston is a seldom-used reserve for Celtic. Played some Europa League and Champions League qualifiers. Really?

Chris #314, spot on.

Tony Byrne
324 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:14:42
Derek 319, spot on,

the 1st person to compare with Balotelli, same thoughts had crossed my mind, at the time I was gutted for the lad, but you have to see it through the eyes of the manager,who, is tasked with getting something out of the game, which the big man achieved.

The ideal outcome going forward would be to see Moise Kean start against Leicester & put a shift in, like the 11 that did so at OT, we'll see...

Slightly off topic of the thread, I look at today's premiership & rue what a great opportunity we have missed as a club, Utd Arsenal Chelsea Spurs are all "catchable" this season for the first time in years, if we had appointed a coach 3-4 years ago with the calibre better than the likes of Martinez, Koeman, Silva etc etc, we could now be where Leicester are sitting.Let that thought sink in.

This league is average at best, besides two teams, the money we have blown just makes me despair, are we just unlucky or piss poor at getting it right when it matters...

Gordon Adie
325 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:23:35
Mike, time will tell but if you check out the goals he has scored for Celtic you will see what I mean. He is hungry.
Gordon Adie
326 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:28:07
Annika, that may well be true but talent is talent, no matter where.
Mike Corcoran
327 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:36:46
The manager has to decide who stays on and who gets hooked and when. No time for sentiment or hard knocks. He was getting sucked back when he should have been hanging up front for the out ball. Shades of petulance and disrespect, should have gone to the bench not down the tunnel. The managers only goal is to maximise the points in front of him.
Mike Corcoran
328 Posted 16/12/2019 at 01:39:38
I wouldn't be starting Kean at the expense of Calvert-Lewin vs Leicester either. What sort of 'spit the dummy' message would that send to the squad?
Bill Gienapp
329 Posted 16/12/2019 at 03:33:09
As far as I'm concerned, the only reasons for Ferguson not to get the job until the end of the season are --

1.) If we're able to bring in a manager we really rate
2.) If we doubt his ability to safely steer the ship

The first point is debatable. Ancelotti would clearly be a major statement, but I question the fit. Arteta is intriguing, but a gamble. None of the other names mentioned particularly excite me. Gallardo would have been the best choice IMO, but it looks like he's out of the running.

As for the second point, I have zero doubt. This isn't close to a relegation squad, so all Ferguson needs to do is continue inspiring commitment and effort. And as far as a "safe set of hands" goes, the notion that Moyes could have produced today's performance is absolutely laughable. The guy couldn't produce a point at Old Trafford when he was MANAGER OF UNITED.

Mick Davies
330 Posted 16/12/2019 at 04:44:47
Just a fortnight ago, I was seriously expecting relegation this season: and now I'm hoping for a Europa League spot or a good cup run. That's the impact our Caretaker boss has had, yet Andy Crooks seems to dislike Duncan Ferguson for some reason and doesn't realise that Dunc has been working with Kean for a long time and knows what he's like.

He seemed to be giving him a chance and even some of the players were gesturing towards him trying to put him straight, but he was wandering all over the place and when he failed to hold up a simple ball which bounced off him Lukaku style, and never chased it, I think that was the last straw.

I remember Moyes in one of his early games hooked Hibbert, who reacted with a rant but was put in his place, then won his shirt back.

Even Dunc had a spat with Moyes and was banned from the training ground for a week or so, and maybe he remembers this lesson and knowing Kean better than us lot, is applying the same psychology. The way he sauntered off towards the tunnel and not to the bench with his team mates says a lot about his attitude: he's been here a while now and for me, has done nothing to warrant a place in the team, even moaning about wanting to return to Italy.

What we don't need now we have this team spirit back, is a bad apple sowing discord in the ranks, and I couldn't care less if he goes back to Italy this week, we've been doing well without him.

Derek Knox
331 Posted 16/12/2019 at 05:15:01
I happened to go to Liverpool yesterday, no I'm not that dumb, I knew we were playing at Old Trafford, but had arranged to, some time before.

I went to the Excelsior as the match started, and felt although we were down to the bare bones, that we carried on like an extension of the team that had outplayed Chelsea the weèk before.

Okay, it was a fortuitous goal off the hapless Lindelof, but it set the tone of the game. There were two RS supporters next to me, oddly enough from Liverpool, and I heard them say, Everton are playing well, and unrecognizable from the previous showings.

At that point, I made it known I was Blue, and deep down felt proud to declare that allegiance, which is something I have not felt for a long time, long may it continue.

I am old enough to remember and attended many games when Howard Kendall Mk 1 was the Manager. Maybe it's early days, but I would seriously consider Duncan for the post. What other man could produce such paradoxical performances from virtually the same set of players?

Strange substitution? Yes, very, no doubt all will be revealed soon on that one, but Niasse did even less than Moise Kean. As someone mentioned before, maybe he is a young version of Balotelli, but I do see something in the lad that I like and hope that, whatever the problem is, it gets resolved.

Alan J Thompson
332 Posted 16/12/2019 at 06:16:52
It appears that Ferguson withdrew Kean for either not following instructions or lack of effort. Whether it was the right move or not matters little now but if Dunc wants to see what Kean is made of then he should start him on Wednesday, may be saving DCL or Richarlison for the weekend, and see if he gets the reaction he may be looking for.
If it happens then it is a feather in each of their caps and if it doesn't then it is a problem for Mr Brands.
Ron Marr
333 Posted 16/12/2019 at 06:30:44
From the BBC:
Kean won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.

Niasse, in contrast, won 50% of his duels and did not lose possession once while making two tackles - as many as centre-back Michael Kean

Https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50802290


Jeff Spiers
334 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:21:18
We need to stop this snowflake attitude. If Kean is upset then he can fuck off. So can the PC brigade. Leave the luvvie dovey stuff to Kenwright.
Andrew Ellams
335 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:25:34
Kean will be a forgotten journeyman player by the time he's 25.
Derek Knox
336 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:29:51
Jeff @ 334, tend to agree if that is PC these days to do so, as we are approaching Xmas, let's hope all snowflakes are limited to cards and the weather!

Duncan has brought back so much pride and belief amongst Evertonians, it is almost unbelievable, who'd have thought that a couple of weeks ago!

Eric Myles
337 Posted 16/12/2019 at 07:34:31
In my part of the world before the game there was a profile of Duncan the player.

Leon Osman was talking about Dunc's leadership 'skills' saying that (paraphrasing) when he tells you he wants you to do something, you better have done it, and had a pained look on his face.

I guess that's why the players are playing out of their skins for him as opposed to 'nice guy' Marco.

Thomas Lennon
338 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:32:00
The last Ferguson who inspired loyalty, trust, respect and not a little fear in the team and people around him did OK. Players performed or were dropped. Effort for the shirt was expected, not desired. Clarity of purpose was their reward.

When he left, down they went, with the same team. I think those who say this approach is outdated need to think about what we need to get up there to where we belong before we get too concerned about possession stats.

I'd like to see this team up against another fighting team before making too many positive comments, but if we get a result there then our Ferguson is setting the minimal standard for who comes next, perhaps himself. We go from there.

Martin Berry
339 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:43:27
Considered by many as unlikely that we were going to get anything from this game we showed what fighting spirit we had.
As for Kean the BBC stats as shown by Ron 333 says its all, if your not playing to instructions or being sloppy in possession then you deserve to be hooked, I am sure Dunc will sit down with the lad and explain whats required and if he cant buy into to it then “arrivederci!”
Ajay Gopal
340 Posted 16/12/2019 at 08:57:13
No Gomes
No Gbamin
No Delph
No Schneiderlin
No Sigurdsson
No Sidibe
No Walcott
No Baningimine (even for the bench)
Digne forced off after 20 mins

Let that sink in...

And then appreciate what the heroic players and Dunc achieved yesterday. It is nothing short of miraculous!

Regarding the Kean incident, when one of the substitutions has been forced on the team due to injury, and you are called on as a tactical subsitute, that is an absolutely HUGE responsibility, you better make sure that you follow the coach’s instructions 100% and you put in your best effort. I agree with those who say that it is now up to Kean to show what he is made of - he either puts his head down and works his nuts off, or he moves on, knowing that he wasted more than 28 million of a Club’s hard earned money.

Dale Rose
341 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:04:30
When you put it that way Ajay it puts the performance at a different level.
Brent Stephens
342 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:11:04
Andy #312 "I don't know how any Evertonian can condone the way Duncan Ferguson turned his back on Kean. It was shameful."

Or good management, perhaps, if it gets Kean to either listen to and follow instructions (if that was the problem) or to put in greater effort (if that was the problem) - or both. Who knows. We'll see. For now, Duncan is the judge of that.

Brent Stephens
343 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:17:08
And just a word in defence of Moise Kean. A few posts saying he was clearly knackered. I guess that impression might be because of the way he walks - it seems like a weary trudge. When he came on as sub for us when we first signed him, I thought exactly the same. I think it might have been Mike Gaynes who put me right - watching the Youtube clips of his previous career seems to show this is his natural gait.
Jim Burns
344 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:25:24
Those on here calling DF for his treatment of Keane - are you kidding me?
I was at the match and after 5 mins a few around me could tell he something wasn't right with the lad - body language, no tackles and drifting all over the place. He made one decent run with the ball and when he'd lost it he looked as though he was fucked - heaving for breath and clearly uncomfortable.
Big call by Dunc - and for those moaning at him - what do want? A manager prepared to make the big calls and influence the game or one who just hopes?
What was the score again?
By the way I hope Keane learns and recovers - but it's up to him.
Mike Doyle
345 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:27:04
Duncan has been thrown into this role - with zero notice - and a brief to improve performances and (hopefully) pick up a few points. To say he as, to date, delivered would be a massive understatement.
If, in order to do what is best for the club, he upsets a few players - many of whom are long-term under performers - then so be it. Sends a clear and long overdue message to the rest of the squad.
Had the likes of Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Jurgen Klopp subbed Moise Kean after 18 mins the press and pundits would have been full of praise for their astute management ( I recall Mourinho subbed 3 Chelsea players before half time).
However most of these commentators were expecting Duncan to fail spectacularly and seem unable to give him the credit he is currently deserving.
Ray Roche
346 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:44:22
Paul @295

“Sheedy mysteriously left” to take a very well paid job in Saudi (I think it was) and get some financial security. There were all sorts of rumours, aren’t there always, but Sheedy himself dismissed them as rubbish.

Allan Board
347 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:48:53
It doesn't matter how good or bad you were as a player when it comes to managing. It is a completely different scenario and a thankless task.
This great game is all about opinions, so you will never please all the people all the time.
With big wages comes big responsibility, true in any type of work.
What I'm saying is, if you can't handle the responsibility, then don't take the money.
Everton have been pandering to snow flakes for 20 year's - look where it gets you.
A breath of fresh air is Duncan in a sea of clip board coaches who talk too much and confuse their players with their waffling.
Just seen City's 3rd goal v Arsenal - Arsenal need to make a sub so they get some kid off the bench, who then proceeds to remove about 10 layers whilst some boring bloke with a clipboard and headset talks shit in his ear, this takes that long that the game has restarted and City promptly smash their 3rd in whilst Arsenal are down to 10 men. Pretentious nonsense, all for show.
If you're listening in training and actually interested in the game, then you should know what you have to do and what's expected.

The best manager any of us have seen kept things simple and crystal clear, and was universally feared, do it how he wants it or you are gone.
His name was Ferguson too.

Back the manager, he's been dropped in at the deep end because of the heirachys abject failings and is only seen as a stop gap by them until their pretentiousness gets the better of them and they slide another no mark suave boy in again or Cardigan Dave!
The big fellas doing a great job, what he needs is our complete support, not snow flake criticism and perhaps, just perhaps a long term solution is under our noses. Oh, and 1 point more than the corresponding 2 fixtures of last season.

Stan Schofield
348 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:51:09
There are about 350 posts so far on this thread, and a significant proportion of them are criticising a manager for substituting a player, when that manager secured a decent result in the game, the player was ineffective, and the manager has in quick time transformed the spirit in the Club and given belief back to many Evertonians.

Some folks really do need to get a grip on reality.

Bill Watson
349 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:51:29
Kean looked so laboured, and was giving the ball away so often, we were wondering if he'd picked up a knock.

Niasse had an immediate impact, in the way only he can, and he certainly gave the Utd. defenders something to think about in a way Kean hadn't.

Duncan did absolutely the right thing and, in doing so, sent a clear message to the players that whilst he's in charge they obey his instructions.

It's now up to Kean whether he buys into this, or not. If not, show him the door.

A big shout out to Holgate who was superb in an unfamiliar position and all the others who really put a shift in.

Dave Ganley
350 Posted 16/12/2019 at 09:52:33
Spot on Stan #348
Steve Ferns
351 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:01:17
That Duncan is being criticised after a very creditable draw at Old Trafford is ridiculous. We have to look at our recent history against them to see how rare it is we get a point there:
- 4-4 draw in 2012,
- 0-1 win in 2013 under Martinez,
- 1-1 draw in 2017 under Koeman when Zlatan scored a last minute penalty to equalise.

(Before then we have to go back to 2005 for Moyes' lads to come away with a draw showing just how terrible his record was).

As a matter of interest, from that Koeman draw, when we were hoping to bridge the gap to 6th, it's amazing how many of that team played just 30 months later:
- Mason Holgate at Right back
- Leighton Baines at Left back
- Tom Davies at central midfield
- Dominic Calvert-Lewin came on as a late substitute.

Back to Duncan being criticised, despite doing a sterling job, and getting results, does this not show you how easy it is for the manager to come under fire? Just imagine this was Benitez? It does not take much does it? Managers make judgement calls, it's easy with hindsight to criticise them. People can agree at the time and then have a pop at the decision afterwards.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
352 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:05:33
I think any criticism of Ferguson about the substitution can be - why did he not put on Niasse first and second the lack of encouragement to Kean when he came off.

The latter is what was needed and the bawling out when they got back in the Changing Room, or even better a private word at FF today. And with Duncan's accent and Kean's fluent Italian, maybe a translator would be needed.

Don Alexander
353 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:13:09
Thanks Eric (#337), I'm on record in denigrating Ferguson the thug when he was a player but if he's exerting that sort of pressure on our players of today it'll do for me. It's farcical though that pampered, millionaire players can't find it in their hearts and/or minds to give their all to the fans unless a Glasgow kiss and/or a knuckle-sandwich from the boss is at the forefront of their minds.
Steve Carse
354 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:20:38
Ferguson probably felt he had to give Kean some minutes for the lad's peace of mind in a situation where anyone who could walk was involved. That ball chasing is not Kean's game quickly became evident (nor is heading the ball). With Everton becoming more and more under pressure then who better to turn to in the last minutes than Prince Niasse? Niasse can't play football, but he'll stop the opposition from doing so.
Stan Schofield
355 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:25:39
Don@353: There's a hell of a lot of assumption there, implying that fear is THE motivating factor. There are a range of possibilities, including respect arising from know-how, clarity of purpose, charisma, some fear, and combinations thereof. You simply don't know. What we do know is that DF can get players to have fire in the belly and consequent results.

ToffeeWeb has been replete with ASSUMPTIONS about DF. It's always remarkable how confident some folks are about their assumptions being reality. Usually misplaced confidence, but that doesn't stop the assumptions coming thick and fast.

Derek Taylor
356 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:45:53
I wrote yesterday that the' Kean affair' might well militate against DF in the minds of Owner and Chairman. Today, I ask which, if any of the candidates we know of, could possibly have had as much impact on a side being written off as has the Scot.

Several of those candidates are 'Yesterday Men' anxious to inflate their pensions on the back of success ( or in the case of Moyes, lack of it ! ) achieved long ago. Others are 'names' who those who follow foreign football purport to have followed for years as they've worked their way across Europe's weaker leagues. Somewhat strangely, Portugal seems to throw up the most qualifiers on the basis that anybody, but anybody, seems able to win cups and championships in that sunny clime and then forget how they did it. All of which relegates the temporary incumbent to a very long odds bet in the staring line up !

Of course, recent appointments by those in charge have indicated almost total ignorance of the qualities required in an Everton manager and most of us 'ordinary fans' would back their own inclination to give 'The Big Man' at least until the end of this season to stake his claim. They, and we, owe him that much if only for the blatant joy he has brought us over the last few days !

Stewart Oakes
357 Posted 16/12/2019 at 10:59:08
I don't remember Howard Kendall getting flack when he did the same to Neil Adams, which was at not only Wembley but also his first game for the club. He went on to play 12 (10 as a starter) games for that Championship winning side, and if not for injuries would have played more.
Tony Abrahams
358 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:24:49
Correct Jerome, as long as he has a good chat with Kean, and tells him why he brought him off and what exactly he wants from him. Solsksjar knew what Duncan was thinking before the game yesterday though, because I saw him smiling when he said that Everton’s formation would be different out on the pitch!

Brian Harrison
359 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:24:53
I would be very interested to know if Moshiri and Kenwright have given any thought to what we do when the transfer window opens in a couple of weeks. We are nowhere near appointing a permanent manager, so will it be left to Brands to purchase players without having any idea what the new manager will want. I think there are more questions than answers over Brands performance as DOF. He failed to bring in a quality striker in the summer as well as allowing Gueye to leave the club. He brought in an a kid who was struggling to get game time under Siva, and doesnt look like he has bought into Fergusons new regime methods. I am far from convinced about Iwobi or Bernard or Delph and we haven't seen enough ob GBmin to make a judgement.

Just seems with us sitting just above the relegation zone and if Ferguson hadnt got 4 points from 2 games we would have been in the relegation zone. So this window could be critical for us, so I would suggest the board make a decision to leave Ferguson in charge till the end of the season, or appoint the full time manager and let him or Ferguson have a limited amount of money to spend on players they want.

Rob Halligan
360 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:26:37
Can't be bothered reading through all the posts on this substitution debate, but here's my thoughts on it..

Duncan puts Moise Kean on, and nineteen minutes later, realises he's probably made a mistake, and takes him off, putting Niasse on for the last five minutes (which included added time), and people on here go ballistic.

Imagine if it was Niasse that Duncan put on instead of Kean? People on here would have been going ballistic, saying why has he put Niasse on instead of Kean? The big fella was in a no win situation here. I was at the game yesterday and didn't hear one Everton fan moaning about Kean being hooked. I was far more happy with the result than worrying about Moise Keans feelings.

The big man has clearly got a reaction from the players in these last two games, taking four points from six from two of the so called big six teams, and he's only doing what he thinks is best for the team, and if that means substituting a substitute, then so be it.

Steve Ferns
361 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:53:21
Rob, I don't think it is fair for any of us to comment. No one is privy to what's going on. There's rumours and conjecture about Kean's attitude and dedication in training. The fact is we have no idea why Duncan did what he did, whether he was justified to do it, and what Kean is thinking right now.

I believe we should trust Ferguson's judgement on this, but we should also back the player and offer support. It is possible to do both.

Mark Pringle
362 Posted 16/12/2019 at 11:59:45
I was at Old Trafford yesterday and have to say that the work rate was excellent. Mason Holgate (my MOM) and Calvert-Lewin were superb and I have to say, I thought Michael Keane was really good also.
In terms of Dunc, well look I'm Scottish and I've always loved him and what he has given back to us in the last couple of weeks has been brilliant. I was emotional watching the Chelsea game and I loved it at the end yesterday, although I did have to remind myself it was a draw. The celebrations were about more than that though, it was about having our Everton back. I hope we keep him in some capacity to be our manager in the longer term.
However, as much as I love the big man, hes not the long term answer. I have no issue with the Kean sub because, and I have been desperate for him to do well since he signed and hope he still does, bottom line his performance was not good enough. When we are 1-1 away at Old T, under pressure and down to the bare bones we need everyone knocking their pan in and Kean quite simply wasnt. He wasnt terrible just not working hard enough. So in that respect it was a good decision.
The poor part was not talking to the boy when he came off. Didn't have to be a big explanation but at least an acknowledgement to the lad to try and limit his embarrassment.
My hope is we sign Ancelotti! I keep hearing hes not the right fit. Why? Because he doesn't 'get us'? Pish!! Hes a manager of the highest, highest calibre and is exactly what we need in terms of style and substance. We have done well over the last couple of games with an increased work rate due to the Dunc effect but taking my blue tinted specs off we have rode our luck a bit. Nothing wrong with that and long may it continue but as much as I love Dunc, Ancelotti is the man for me, get him in asap, keep Dunc learning and watch us go!! Hopefully Ancelotti will be able to bring Kean round as I think him and DCL could be great up top!!
Steve Ferns
363 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:13:29
Apparently, according to Everton staff and ex players, there is a new twitter account that is actually Duncan Ferguson, although it is yet to be "verified" by twitter. This is what "Duncan" had to say:

"I understand there are a lot of unhappy
@Everton
fans at Moise being substituted off so quickly after coming on. We needed fresh legs, it was as simple as that. Nothing personal at all.

DF."

Posted at 11.45am

He then sent a further message at 11.48:

"He will pick himself back up and come back stronger, we have already spoken this morning."

Duncan Ferguson twitter
Link

Frank Crewe
364 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:13:53
@Ajay 340
"knowing that he wasted more than 28 million of a Club’s hard earned money."
Yeah. I'm sure that will bother Kean. Not. I'm sure we'll soon be hearing from his old man saying how signing for Everton was the worst thing his son ever did. Looking back it was probably a mistake buying him the first place.
They bring on Greenwood who cost nothing and he promptly scores. We bring on Kean who cost millions. He does nothing and is promptly subbed. The difference? Greenwood is a young player looking to make a name for himself and become a first team player. Kean is a young player who thinks he has already made a name for himself and should be entitled to be a first team player because of it. Dunc has to disabuse him of this notion and take him back to basics. Commitment, hard work, running and plenty of sweat. He has to be made to realise that if he wants to be a first team player then he has to earn it. Personally I doubt he will and he'll eventually go out on loan and then be sold on at a no doubt big loss to the club.
Brands needs to be looked at because I have no doubt it was his decision to bring Kean in. We had a decent amount of money to spend on an established striker yet we chucked it away on an unproven teenager. Brands has been getting away with a lot but I have no doubt he currently bares a lot of responsibility for Everton's current woes. He's brought in some decent players. Digne, Yerry Mina is finally shaping up, Gomes is a top player, Bernard works hard but needs more goals. But he's also brought in some clunkers. Iwobi who was very expensive and doesn't appear to have a proper position in the side, the perma-crocked Delph who only plays one game in four if we're lucky and is no doubt on humongous wages, Lossl who isn't even making the bench and of course Kean who hasn't come anywhere near to living up to his reputation as an exciting young striker.
I think if Dunc eventually gets the job he will be butting heads with Brands a lot regarding what players to bring in because I doubt very much he would have brought in Kean if it had been up to him. This is why I don't think he'll get the job. He won't work with a DoF looking over his shoulder and he won't compromise on the type of players he wants and that will just cause more ructions at the club.
Rob Halligan
365 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:19:42
Steve, I will back and support any player who pulls on the blue shirt for Everton. I am desperate for Kean to do well for us, but as Mark says above, he did look a bit lost in the time he was on. Ok, maybe Duncan could have had a little word with Kean as he came off, but he was probably so engrossed in the game to think about it? An arm around the shoulder and a word in Keans ear today, telling him he will start on Wednesday will lift the lad a little bit.
Steve Ferns
366 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:20:52
Rob, you would definitely back anyone in blue. Everyone knows that.
Bill Gienapp
367 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:23:03
I feel like one of the bigger Kean supporters on here and I'm very invested in his success with the club. Like it or not, we're not going to buy a world class striker - our best bet is to get in on the ground floor with one. People already seem to forget what a coup signing Kean was - and that most experts were shocked we didn't have to pay more. Some have asked why Juventus were willing to let him go if he were any good - many reasons, but frankly, if you're able to go out and sign freakin' Ronaldo, you're not going to be as invested in youth development.

All that being said, I'm not about to cast aspersions on Ferguson when we don't know the whole story... and I struggle to buy the theory that some have voiced, which is that Dunc was simply puffing out his chest and trying to be the "big man." More likely it was some variation on Kean not following instructions, not showing 100% commitment, etc...

And thus, as others have said, it's now on Kean to step up his game and make good on his considerable potential. I had similarly high hopes for Lookman, but he never got his act together and now he's basically picking splinters out of his butt for Leipzig.

Steve Ferns
368 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:25:22
Sorry guys, not sure that account is genuine. Surely the official Everton Twitter account would be aware and link to him like they do the players rather than just write his name. I think it's another attention seeker pretending to be someone.
Sam Hoare
369 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:29:51
The Kean thing saddens me. I had high hopes for him when we bought him (though Leao, who's having a similar time of it at Milan, was my choice). As Bill above says we will be unlikely to buy a ready, top class striker; our best bet is trying to develop one.

Kean had said lots in the press how he had learned from the mistakes of Balotelli and would not be making them himself.

However i've yet to see him play and show the type of energy and comitmment that DCL puts in almost every game.

I'd no issue with Duncan subbing him though I think he might have offered him a word of support or explanation at the time. Perhaps he didn't want to make a scene. Pretty harsh to humiliate a 19 year old from another country in a big televised match but I guess we will see from Kean's reaction what he is made of.

Dave Abrahams
370 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:31:48
Rob (360), well said, I’ve got some sympathy for Moise, but it can wait, like you said yesterday’s result was the most important thing and we got a good one, a very good one with the squad that was available.

All the posters, who went to the game, seem to be in agreement that Duncan made the correct decision, that will do for me.

All those who went yesterday, give yourselves a large pat on the back, you were incredible, well you are always incredible, but you let the team know they were not on their own, out shouting and singing the huge home support. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Tom Bowers
371 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:35:28
Only Ferguson and the coaching staff know what's going on in Kean's head but one thing for sure is that something is amiss.
When you are a few minutes away from the end and cannot be relied on to do a job it speaks volumes about attitude.

He may be let go in January which is sad as he came with so much potential being touted.
Still, he wouldn't be the first flop at Goodison to do well elsewhere.
Everton need more striking power as we all know so perhaps changes are in the wind but the managerial situation has to be resolved first. Yes, they could have gotten all three points at Manure but just didn't have the werewithal up front to get the job done.
Still a lot of problems for Ferguson to deal with but 4 points in a week is a good start. It ain't gonna happen overnight and getting away from the ''bad zone'' is the first priority.

Jim Bennings
372 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:36:45
We shouldn’t let the substitute thing overshadow what was a good result for the team, a team decimated with injuries and illness.

I trust the manager, no player is bigger than the manager and young Moise wasn’t worrying about anyone when he was arriving late several days for training was he?

So why should we worry about him being unhappy at being subbed?

It’s life, he’s a young man but exactly that, a grown man, an adult, a footballer and it happens in football that hard decisions need making.

People have been overreacting massively, some of the garbage I’ve read on various social media sites and the like about it being the worst thing ever to happen.

I’m with Duncan Ferguson all the way, this is a leader of men, not a popularity contest, so any snowflakes need to man up.

For the record anyway, Kean seems to be a bit top heavy in my opinion, he looked knackered.

Maybe he’s homesick, or maybe he just needs a different club in a slower paced league?

Maybe he’ll even come good here?

Who knows but really what happened yesterday compared to all the other terrible things in the world, it’s so insignificant.

Chris Williams
373 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:41:30
Isn’t Mina Raiola his agent?

He’s getting touted all over Italy if reports are to be believed(?)

It wouldn’t be the first time a Raiola player started acting arsey at clubs would it? Lukaku, here and at Man Utd, ( although I think he’s changed agents again) Pogba at Man Utd, off the top of my head.

Or maybe he’s just a young man, a stranger in a strange land.

David Nicholls
374 Posted 16/12/2019 at 12:59:37
Nothing lucky about our goal, the ball had gone past Dom & De Gea by the time contact was made.
They just showed it from another angle on Ref Watch and if anything, the keeper jumps in to Dom
James Marshall
375 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:03:00
My suspicion is that Moise kean never wanted to join Everton. He was getting games at Juve, playing with some of the best players in the world, at one of Europe's most prestigious clubs and then all of a sudden he's at Everton languishing at the bottom of the table in England.

I suspect this wasn't in his plans a year ago, and now he's probably quite pissed off with the whole situation. Quite frankly, who can blame him?

While I agree it's the managers decision to make, what he should have done is have a word with Kean as he came off. Blanking him like that just made something out of nothing, and made the kid look like a berk.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

376 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:18:54
Christ on a bike!

Just checked in to see the Kean-Ferguson story still rolling on this thread, with some posts laced with the wildest assumptions.

Was it a 'sit up and take notice' moment? Of course it was! Bringing the kid on then hooking him within 18 minutes raised more than an eyebrow.

No one in this thread - absolutely no one! - is privy to the reasoning and thinking of the move by DF.

IMO the more fanciful assumptions that it was a super narcissistic egotistical game of showmanship by Ferguson is laughable.

Those saying he should have had a quiet word with Kean as he came off rather than blanking him evidently have no recall of a single Howard Kendall substitution. HK did the same ALL the time, in any game situation.

Why? Because he was so wrapped up in the 'now' of the game, still to be won or salvaged. The player subbed out was of no use to him and could not influence the game. The player subbed in and his other 10 team mates could, and that's who got HK's attention in such situations.

Live when it happened, when DF didn't give Kean as much as a 1st glance, nevermind a 2nd one, I nodded my head in acknowledgment to Ferguson. It reminded me of the HK trait described above. A trait also employed by Duncan Ferguson's namesake who prowled the Old Trafford touchline for nearly 3 decades.

Many a poster is choosing to see it primarily from Moise Kean's perspective. But what about Duncan Ferguson's perspective?

The easiest option for the manager, having brought Kean on just 18 minutes earlier, was to leave him on and hook another player.

I mean, hooking Kean could equally be interpreted negatively and reflect badly on the manager. Namely, it was an admission of guilt, of subbing in the wrong player at the wrong time in the wrong situation. To save face, DF could have left Kean on to avoid the issue altogether and hoping nothing critical resulted from it.

What Ferguson did was arguably bolder than that. He saw something that potentially risked Everton losing another goal and thus the match. Knowing that 5 minutes is a long time in football, Duncan was proactive in correcting that vulnerability.

He was courageous enough to correct his own perceived error in front of a live and global television audience of millions.

Rather than castigate and cast aspersions on the manager as some have chosen to do, if anything, that single act further enhanced Duncan Ferguson's credentials for me.

And that's before appreciating how for the second week running, against tough opposition, in exceedingly trying circumstances (mid to long term injuries, late sickness withdrawals overnight), the Big Man has got a performance and a result out of the team.

Finally, if yesterday was the worst thing that will happen to Moise Kean in his football career, or in his entire life, then he is going to be a very blessed individual.

Raymond Fox
377 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:31:10
Spot on Allan # 347, it seems like Kean is a lad that needs a good talking too.
We have heard little snippets about him being late for team meetings both here and when he's been on duty with the Italian under 21s. You cant do that and expect to get on.
I've no doubt that Ferguson will give the lad good advice, also some of our experienced players will no doubt have a wise word in his ear.
Whether that advice falls on stony ground or not, is up to Kean.

Come on Duncan take the job, you can do it.

Alexander Murphy
378 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:45:38
Jay W @376.
Superb post.
You've eloquently articulated My very thoughts and done so thoroughly and completely. I tip My hat.

Other TW's really need to read that post, appreciate it and let it sink in.

Well said Jay.

Jim Burns
379 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:49:18
Spot on Jay at 376 - talk of DF's decision to pull him off affecting his CV and his chances of getting the gig - damn right it will to the good.
John P McFarlane
380 Posted 16/12/2019 at 13:54:27
Whatever your take on 'Keangate' it's comforting to know that the people who can influence results the most, ie the players seem to buy into Duncan's ideas and demands, including one of Goodison's favourite sons Seamus Coleman as exemplified by this section from the Echo. I've added emphasis to what I believe are the most important aspects of Seamus' comments
Everton take on Leicester City in the Carabao Cup quarter-final on Wednesday in what could be Ferguson's final game in charge.

When asked if victory would be the ideal parting gift for the players to give the caretaker, Coleman said: "The thing about Duncan is, he doesn't want anything for himself. He wants it for us players, which is incredible. There's no ego.

"I spoke to him a couple of days ago. We've got a team manager parking space and there's no chance he'll park in it.

"It's not about him. It's never been about him. As players it's so refreshing to see. He's a great man and I can't speak highly enough of him to be honest."

I'm delighted that Duncan will be in charge on Wednesday and if it is to be his final appearance in the dug-out, I hope the fans in attendance can help his young warriors gain another scalp and make it to the last four of the competition.

Andrew Dempsey
381 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:20:29
John,

He is our manager though, he is the reluctant, natural leader we and the players have been waiting for.
It’s so obvious.
It’s staring us right in the face.
Just tell him he’s got another six games, that won’t make him too nervous.
If that goes well, give him it till May.
He can do it. He’s just a bit nervous about it at the moment but he’ll get over that.
It will be an absolute crime if he is not in charge for the FA Cup game because that will scare them, not that they care about being in that much, but beating them, there, is very much needed for the sake of all football supporters everywhere.

George Carroll
382 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:36:28
Just a thought how many of you would want to work for a Boss who showed you no respect, couldnt be bothered speaking to you, sacked you without a glance.If thats your natural leader as som e are calling Ferguson then all I can say is God help us
Andy Peers
383 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:42:10
George,
That would actually make me look at myself and wonder why he has been that way to me. Especially when everybody else is motivated by the same boss!!!
James Marshall
384 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:43:43
Jay@376

In today's modern game with today's modern players, and subsequent social media frenzy, my point was that Ferguson could have avoided everything about this by simply having a very quick & quiet word in his ear as he came off.

Simple modern-day man-management. It's not the 1980's anymore. Sorry but your opinion on this is as outdated as the people you referenced. No offence meant.

A very brief interaction from the manager means this conversation never needed to happen in my view.

Tony Abrahams
385 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:47:17
I was talking to your favourite son before Dave@370, the one who hates Duncan Ferguson, because he was asking me if I’d got him a ticket for Wednesday night, and after telling him no because he doesn’t like Ferguson, he said he was made up that he brought Kean off yesterday, because everyone in the ground was saying the kid looked Knackered, and it was definitely the correct thing to do.
George Carroll
386 Posted 16/12/2019 at 14:53:47
Andy post at 384 says it all
Jerome Shields
388 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:14:13
Steve#363

Thank you for the Duncan Link.
Big Funds response short and sweet and to the point.

Jerome Shields
389 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:19:11
Steve the Twitter account has just been suspended. VAR must be involved, only explaination or Lyndon had it checked out.
Brian Harrison
390 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:21:22
How come there wasnt the same reaction when Ferguson took Richarlison off against Chelsea and he had scored the opener and put a shift in. Again when he was subbed Ferguson blanked him as well. Now I think Richarlison has been a great asset to this club and he wasnt pleased at being subbed, but no walking down the tunnel and yesterday Richarlison put in a shift for the whole 90 minutes.

I think Fergusons message is very simple if you stop working or stop following instructions whether you have been on for 19 minutes or 70 minutes then you will be subbed. A very clear message and I am sure everybody now understands this.

I wouldnt be surprised if Kean plays a part on Wednesday against Leicester and it will be his chance to show he has learnt his lesson, at least I hope he has.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

391 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:33:03
James @ 384.

Absolutely no offence taken James, but you have a very innocent view of the world if you think the 'subsequent social media frenzy' is in any way relevant or significant.

'Social media' and 'frenzy' is a natural collocation and constant bedmates. By its very nature it is largely superficial, reactionary and fleeting. Post-match comments in this very thread is evidence of this.

You are equally innocent and not a keen observer of top level football if you think Ferguson's actions belong exclusively to a bygone era and is not practised by other modern day managers.

Duncan Ferguson had a live decision to make, with the clock ticking, in a highly pressurised situation. He made that decision. His focus remained on the immediate task at hand.

There is ample time in the dressing room after the game, or at training during the week, to discuss with Kean in greater detail the rationale behind the decision.

But let's say, for the sake of discussion, it would have been better if the manager had, as you evidently prefer, 'a very brief interaction' with the player. Can you or anyone predict with absolute certainty how that may have panned out?

What if the player reacted petulantly or angrily, stoking the manager to respond in kind? And we all know just how fierily Duncan Ferguson can respond.

We could be looking at a Cantona Karate Kick situation today, rather than the 'manager blanks subbed out player' story that some - including yourself - are building a considerable mountain out of an insignificantly small molehill.

Steve Brown
392 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:33:15
James @ 384, I agree and I hope Duncan has reflected on it. Imagine Joe Royle, Howard Kendall or Walter Smith had handled him so insensitively. Let's not all get selective memory here.

During various stages of his Everton career, Duncan's attitude and application was really poor. If he was up for it - unplayable. If he wasn't motivated or didn't care he was shite. Careful man management was needed with Duncan right throughout his career, so good if he reflects on that.

I posted two weeks ago recommending people watch Duncan Ferguson The Coaching Years on Toffee TV. He comes across as thoughtful so I think he will learn what he did. Because, overall he has been excellent.

Mick Davies
393 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:14
By the way, all this was instigated by a former red, Warnock, who is using his media position to further his own personal agenda
Mick Davies
394 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:14
Hypocrisy is rampant on this thread, and it shows how fickle and forgetful some fans can be: for months I've seen countless posts criticising Silva for not making decisive substitutions until it's too late. If Dunc hadn't done what he did, we could have lost that game as we were basically down to ten men. Niasse actually injected fear into Man U's defence with his unpredictability, and gave them something to occupy their thoughts, when Utd were looking like going all out for a winner.
And those who are saying he should have spoken to him, in the cauldron of OT after they'd just scored - a broad Scots accent to an Italian - should look at the way Kean blanked Niasse: a total lack of team spirit there, which I believe was responsible for Duncan's lack of interest in the lad. Living in a land of foodbanks, homelessness and zero hours contracts, I find it hard to have any sympathy with a sulking millionaire teenager who is unwilling to do a job he's paid obscenely high wages to do, for just 25 mins
Phil Greenough
395 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:35:50
George@386. You must also realise that respect is a two ways street, Kean appeared to disrespect Ferguson, by not doing what his boss asked of him.

Would you still have this opinion if you had asked a person to carry out a specific role and he just blanked you and did what he wanted to do?

Unfortunately, some of today's society think that they can take and not give anything back. As many have opined, Ferguson gave him a chance to show what he could do and he fluffed it.

By the way, where was Kean's respect to his fellow team mates, when he flounced down the tunnel?

John Daley
396 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:39:43
Quite a few quick to question Ferguson’s man management skills yet he’s managed to get graft, commitment, effort and enthusiasm from every other member of the squad he has called upon to date. That’s the same previously underperforming, seemingly unmotivated squad who folded at the first sign of adversity under Silva. He even managed to drag Morgan Schneiderlin (a player Ferguson was rumoured to have had a bust up with and given his marching orders from a training session when Unsworth was caretaker) from longstanding Dawn Of The Dead duty at the Monroeville Mall and get him performing like a living, breathing midfielder. He woke Gylfi Sigurdsson from his season long slumber and actually got his sweat free gonads glistening again as he moved up in gear past ‘going for a stroll’.

He seems to have a real affinity for the other young players in the squad and the feeling is apparently mutual, with Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Holgate all speaking highly of him and declaring they were desperate to do well for him. Why would he have time, patience, empathy and an obvious rapport with those three but suddenly decide, without good reason, ‘right, I’m going to play the hard man (as Andy Crooks put it) with that wee young meff Moise Kean’? He wouldn’t and didn’t. He took him off and didn’t molly coddle him after the player trudged off, mouthing ‘what the fuck’ and walked straight past him. He then made a point of not publicly criticising the player and stated he was taken off to waste time, even though it was far more likely down to him failing miserably to perform the role he was tasked with and even after he made a show of sulking off down the sidelines.

The lad is meant to be a £25m player yet he looks like he hasn’t the foggiest what he should be doing when out on the pitch and, after an initial burst of Beattiesque bombing about, shows all the urgency of William Shatner working his way through a wordy as fuck sentence. When he first came on, Richarlison had to usher him away from the left hand side and tell him to play centre forward. Straight down the other end and Iwobi was having to show him where to stand when defending a corner. Twice Calvert Lewin had to shout at him and motion that he needed to get closer to him after challenging for the ball in the air and Kean being nowhere near. Only ten minutes after coming on, he was stood bent over with his hands on his knees blowing for chunks next to the guy he was meant to be marking. Then he was noticeably trotting around after giving the ball away when players who had been on the entire game were busting a gut to get back.

Instead of falling into the trap of feeling like he’s been hard done by simply because the manager made a decision he thought best for the team, he’d be better served sitting down and watching back his own performance and subsequent stroppy reaction.

a Boss who showed you no respect, couldnt be bothered speaking to you, sacked you without a glance.”

Fuck sake. Sacked without a glance?

He took him off the pitch with 5 minutes to go. He didn’t thrust a backpack with all Keans belongings into his chest and his p45 poking out the zip...that the heartless bastard probably left half-open because he was too busy doing the ‘’wanker’ motion with his right hand and adjusting his blindfold with his left.

He took his suit jacket off and left it lying over a seat as well. Surely should have kept hold of it, draped it over the poor lads shoulders when he departed the pitch and told him there was two Baby Bell in the inside pocket and he could have one if it would make him feel better.....one of the other boys on the bench will be only too pleased to show you how to peel it open if you’re puzzled by it....oh, wait, he’s already pissed off.

Phil Greenough
397 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:49:23
Ferguson should have given him his last Rolo as well, John.
Mick Davies
398 Posted 16/12/2019 at 15:52:36
John Daley @ 396: great post, and needs to be the final word on the new Magaye Gueye
Stan Schofield
399 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:20:21
Dear me, can't believe the substitution of this player is still being discussed. We must be playing well if that's all some people can complain about!
John Pierce
400 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:24:22
I truly baffled by the fuss over a substitution which helped us get a point at OT.

I’m already drooling about Wednesday. I have missed going the match since I left the UK but this is the first time I think I’m missing out. Cup game under the lights.

Ferguson’s stay might be a quick foray but it’s starting to bring out that youthful hope in me.

Let’s hope he has a player or two back and we get a tub thumping game.

Alan J Thompson
401 Posted 16/12/2019 at 16:28:14
George(#382); I think that's called redundancy which quite a few of us might have been through and more than once.
Tom Bowers
402 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:29:11
Wow ! The essay's being written on this incident are positively eye-opening. Ferguson will do his thing and sort this out and as long as he is at the helm players will know what he is about.
Lets all move on.
Andrew Dempsey
403 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:30:36
Last word from me on Moise Kean’s substitution - it’s not Big Dunc’s fault that Silva never played him, making him way off match fitness and unable to keep in the team shape.

And it’s not Silva’s fault that Brands bought someone who believes he’s a maverick who doesn’t have to listen to managerial instructions. Although he does look highly talented, the boy.

Paul Cherrington
404 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:40:37
Great result yesterday - a point away at Utd is never a bad thing and without so many players it was even better. to see a patched up team come close to winning it and play with such passion and fight was really something. All credit to Big Dunc again - he got them firing once more and made sure they were all up for it and gave it everything. Just shows what organisation, desire and a manager who players respect can do.

Talking of which I have to say that he got it spot on with the Kean substitution and how he handled it. even watching on TV you could see Kean ambling about like he wasn't bothered and making no effort at all. there is no way a young lad like that could not run about for 20 minutes if he wanted too - he obviously couldn't be bothered to put a shift in for the club, the fans, his teammates and more importantly the manager.

It was very good leadership by Dunc to not only pull him back off but also blank him when he did. It showed not only Kean but also all the other players that Dunc is no soft touch and what will happen if you do not follow orders or put your all in when playing. that is the sort of thing we have been lacking for so long - a manager who is not afraid to upset big egos and will stamp his authority on the team and get them putting some effort in.

After all, why should Kean have got hugs, smiles and handshakes when he disrespected his manager and did not do what he had been told too? I know I wouldn't in my job so why should footballers? The players have to know that it is not ok to put anything less than 100% in and it is not all smiles if they don't follow orders. Let's put it this way - I bet Kean and none of the others try it on with the big fella in charge again

It is also so refreshing to see a manager who is not trying to copy Pep or be too cool for school with fancy tactics or formations. 2 strikers on the pitch works so much better for us as does the 4 man MF. Big Dunc is cleverly playing to the strengths of the players he has - look how Keane is playing better in defence now the formation & tactics suit him.

I like Ancelotti but I would seriously wait for a few more games and give Big Dunc the chance to make the job his own. there is so much passion, fight and optimism now, why ruin it by bringing a manager in who could spoil that momentum?

Simon Dalzell
405 Posted 16/12/2019 at 17:45:57
Alot of people are confusing Duncans' obviously great influence so far with the merits of this one incident.
I feel very strongly that this was truly awful. The fact that he was totally blanked to trudge off shamed in front of millions, is atrocious.
Andy Crooks
406 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:08:14
When you put it like that John D.. Baby Bell. Brilliant.
Brent Stephens
407 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:16:27
John Daley, stop it, now. My tear ducts won't take it.
Brent Stephens
408 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:21:17
Going to watch the U23s in a few minutes at Stockport (ToffeeWeb, you have got that right, haven't you?!). Hope to see Moise Kean play - listening properly to, and following to the letter, Unsy's instructions when he comes on for the last 20. The lad will learn.
Jay Harris
409 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:39:42
As an aside on Moise Kean it is being reported that he wasn’t wanted and didn’t feature on the original Everton transfer wish-list compiled by Marco Silva and Marcel Brands back in the summer.

It was done as a favour to Mina Ravioli or whatever his name a is to cultivate a relationship.

I wonder whose decision that was then!!!

Brian Williams
410 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:51:01
Candlelit vigil outside Moise' window anyone?
Let's show him the love!
Gordon Adie
411 Posted 16/12/2019 at 18:56:28
Simon are you related to a Dalzell who played for Raith Rovers twenty years ago. I ask because it was twenty years ago that Ferguson stuck the head on John Mcstay and was subsequently jailed. Could that be the reason for your detestation?
Gordon Adie
412 Posted 16/12/2019 at 19:00:08
Sorry, it was 25 years ago. His name was Gordon Dalzell.
Jeff Spiers
413 Posted 16/12/2019 at 19:38:45
It is this snowflake attitude that gets to me. Like some great posts on here, DF is doing his job. If some of you think he is a bully, then go and watch some other team.
Andy Crooks
414 Posted 17/12/2019 at 00:04:08
Thanks, Jeff, I'll go support Liverpool. Snowflake? Oh for fucks sake.
Andy Crooks
415 Posted 17/12/2019 at 00:10:18
Gordon, I really hope Simon is related (well spotted, by the way). How wonderful it would be if Simon waited all these years for such an opportunity to fuck Duncan over on a fansite.
Don't cross him, Gordon. You could be next, 25 years from now.
Phil Lewis
416 Posted 17/12/2019 at 01:53:41
From the first time I set eyes on Moise Kean at Goodison, I knew we had bought a dud. I reluctantly agreed with Souness's TV comments about him and the questioning of Juve's release of him. Frankly the lad hasn't a clue. His positional sense, first touch and distribution are appalling. I care not what his Italian goal tally is, it's his performances in a Royal Blue shirt that should count.

Other than to appease the board, why he was brought on against Man. Utd. in the first place was beyond me. I've said all along that Niasse is more of a threat. That in itself speaks volumes of Kean. All this nonsense about him needing time to settle here as he's only 19, is a smokescreen for his inadequacies. People making a case for him are clutching at straws. I very much doubt Italian clubs would be queuing for his return, should he become available in January.

I say give Ferguson a permanent managerial contract if he continues to inspire players and gets results. So-called 'class act' managers, Martinez, Koeman and Silva have failed us in miserable succession. For all their much-publicised collective tactical nous, none had a fraction of the passion with which Duncan deploys his troops. That passion is clearly inspirational and infectious within the team. I see no reason why it can't be sustained. And don't be fooled by all the 'fist-pumping'. Big Dunc is a much shrewder operator than he is credited with.

Great managers of the past, Kendal at Everton, Shankly at Liverpool, Clough at Nottingham Forest and Robson at Ipswich, created great trophy-winning teams out out of nothing, on a financial shoestring. They passionately moulded veterans, 'has-beens' and youngsters into brilliant team performers, who believed in themselves, taking on the best in the world and beating them.

To anyone who says that it can't be repeated in today's financial climate, think of Leicester City, hardly one of the Premier League's more fashionable clubs, yet under Ranieri's guidance and more recently Brendan Rogers, they create winning teams. Arguably both men more tactically astute than Duncan is yet perhaps, but he could match them both for fighting spirit.

But If anyone knows the weaknesses and strengths of our squad it must be Ferguson. He is surely better equipped to select a team to play to those strengths. Recent results would suggest favourably. Bringing in a superstar managerial stranger, regardless of his credentials, could easily result in the exact same scenario as we have suffered for God knows how long now.

Brian Wilkinson
417 Posted 17/12/2019 at 02:31:07
One thing I will never do is snigger or slate Niasse. Okay, he's on a great contract, he has been humiliated, he has been ridiculed, but if ever anyone tried it has to be Niasse.

We will no doubt land a top class striker, Niasse will be plying his trade somewhere else, but I would love the guy to score in the cup on Wednesday as a parting gift.

Michael Kenrick
418 Posted 16/12/2019 at 05:24:31
Astounding to me how so many people know so much about the circumstances of Kean's substitution, enough to judge Duncan Ferguson definitively in many cases. How can you possibly know? Worse still, how can you possibly judge??? Simply far too many ridiculous posts. The Snowflakes have it by a landslide! Or should that be 'an avalanche'!

I called the result 'lucky' because of the nature of the goal we scored. Huge stroke of luck (a) that it went in at all, and (b) that it was not called back by VAR. Yes, highly deserved by effort and commitment alone... but it underlined the continuing inadequacy of our goalscoring prowess, which was conspicuous by its absence yet again.

Once again, Calvert-Lewin, who put himself around well, and won a lot of challenges and duels, when faced with the tempting prospect of scoring with the ball at his feet, completely squandered his only chance with a hopelessly pathetic shot. Is he really only capable of the odd prod under pressure? I just wish he could hit the ball straight and true with some power...

That's still a real problem. We can't score. We had 8 shots, 3 on target. Presumably one was the gaol. Hopefully Ancelotti will magically improve us.


Ernie Baywood
419 Posted 17/12/2019 at 06:39:11
Not sure what it's got to do with Snowflakes. That might be beneath you, Michael.

I don't need to know why Duncan did it to judge it. We all saw what happened - that's comfortably enough to form an opinion.

We've scored 4 in 2 games at home to Chelsea and away to Man Utd. DCL has 2 of those in 2 MOM contender performances.

I don't see the negatives you do.

Jeff Spiers
420 Posted 17/12/2019 at 07:53:39
Andy414. I'm having a pop at some supporters who are having a go at DF for his stance on the substitution of Kean. Duncan has to tough in the heat of the moment. The message has to be clear we need battlers on the park. John Daley @205 has it spot on. Merry Christmas to all!!! COYB
Tony Abrahams
421 Posted 17/12/2019 at 08:05:45
It's coming for DCL, Michael, it's coming!

He hit a short from 40 yards last week, trying to catch the keeper off-guard, and he hit another one on Sunday from far out clean and crisp, but he never cut across the ball enough so it went straight into the United keepers arms.

Most players can do one or two things, but it's when they're trying to combine everything, that's when it becomes difficult, and this is what I personally think we are seeing with Dominic right now.

Save your energy and concentrate on scoring, or work your plums off for the team and maybe you might become a much more complete centre-forward, seems to be the conundrum right now?

Richard Duff
423 Posted 17/12/2019 at 15:10:20
John Daley #396

Bravo Sir. If only that could fit on a T-Shirt.

ToffeeWeb can be a miserable place sometimes and even though we all accept that and frankly, play a part in it, it's worth highlighting gems like that!

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