Gutless. Spineless. Witless. Hapless. Choose your adjective. Everton’s long-suffering fans have witnessed some pathetic performances at Anfield in recent years but this one, against a Liverpool team featuring nine changes and stuffed with inexperienced kids, takes the biscuit.
Everton turned in a second-half display so bereft of fight, quality, spirit and urgency that it left you wishing half the players could all be thrown out the club tomorrow. Sadly, as the imminent financial accounts will show, the club is counting the significant cost of almost four years of horrendously expensive and just plain horrendous recruitment that will no doubt ensure that Carlo Ancelotti will need all of the four-and-a-half years of his contract to fix it.
The second 45 minutes in particular was indescribably bad from a group of players who, you felt, couldn't get much worse than some of the dross they have served up already this season but whether through fatigue or a simple sense of the futility that has embodied this fixture for Everton for two decades, they appeared to just give up.
No doubt due to the knock the veteran picked up against at Manchester City on New Year’s Day, Fabian Delph was only named among the substitutes but in his stead, Ancelotti might as well not have fielded a midfield at all given the black hole that existed there for much of this contest.
Against such youthful opposition, Gylfi Sigurdsson — has a player ever suffered such a precipitous drop-off in production and form from one season to the next? — and Morgan Schneiderlin should have bossed this game from start to finish; instead, they turned in two of their worst performances in an Everton jersey which, based on everything that has gone on already this season, is quite something. Both are on massive six-figures-per-week salaries but neither are deserving of another minute in an Everton jersey. Sadly, though, unless there will be incoming personnel this month, the manager will have little option.
They were deployed in the most important area of the pitch but they weren’t alone in their ineptitude, their lack of strength, passion and effectiveness. Djibril Sidibé, first as a wing back and then as full-back after the equally terrible Seamus Coleman had been withdrawn, was shocking for 90 minutes. His compatriot on the other flank, Lucas Digne, a pale shadow of the player who was deservedly named player of the season last year, wasn’t much better.
The remainder of a jittery defence that looked scared of its own shadow in front of Jordan Pickford and his awful distribution embarrassed itself trying to play through Klopp’s high press and was frequently forced to whack it aimlessly long or give possession away by giving to the duo in midfield who either weren’t showing for the ball or who proved similarly incapable of consistently finding a blue shirt with a pass.
For so much of this increasingly dejecting match, the team full of kids was the one playing with all the composure while the one with four players 30 or older and stuffed with internationals was struggling just to do the basics. And it was a reliance on the basic, later abandoned, that had served them so well in the first half hour of the game, one which they looked capable of winning, either through a moment of superior quality or simply attrition.
One of Sigurdsson’s only meaningful contributions, a sublime ball into the box for Theo Walcott, set up Everton’s first chance, a low drive from around the penalty spot from Dominic Calvert-Lewin that was perhaps too accurate in that he put it down the middle and Adrian was able to save with his feet.
Then, after Calvert-Lewin had been fouled in a dangerous area, Holgate latched onto a whipped free-kick from Sigurdsson but he planted a free header straight at the goalkeeper.
Everton’s strategy of going direct and bypassing midfield was proving productive at times and they picked Walcott out down the right flank in the 27th minute where the winger was able to the ball back from the byline for Richarlison but he, too, was denied by Adrian’s foot.
Four minutes after that, Walcott came within an inch or so of connecting with Calvert-Lewin but his cross was just too far ahead for the striker’s diving header to connect and steer goal-wards.
Apart from Yerry Mina’s glancing header off a corner and a Calvert-Lewin effort from the edge of the area that he dragged wide with Sidibé calling for it in space to his right, the Blues didn’t really threaten for the remainder of the first half. But with Liverpool failing to unduly trouble Pickford, it felt as though it was only a matter of time before Ancelotti’s men made the breakthrough.
The very early stages of the second period followed the pattern of the first and Sidibé’s neat chested layoff from a corner to Schneiderlin gave the French midfielder an opportunity to find the target but he swept his shot disappointingly over the crossbar.
Then the tide started turning and Everton gradually disappeared from the contest. Neco Williams tested Pickford with a powerful drive and Pickford was forced to push a bouncing, speculative effort from Divock Origi before Curtis Jones produced the moment of magic that the match had been sorely missing, particularly from those in blue jerseys.
The 18-year-old collected Origi’s pass after good hold-up play by the Belgian and he sized up a shot from the edge of the area that he curled over Pickford’s despairing fingertips and in off the underside of the bar.
The effect on Everton, with all the experience in its ranks playing in front 8,000 expectant supporters, was utterly demoralising because Ancelotti’s men appeared to lose all belief and any remaining ability to string together a series of passes.
Bernard came on for Walcott, whose promising first-half display had been ruined by a truly abysmal second, and offered a couple of flourishes, Moise Kean, introduced for Coleman in the 63rd minute, ran around like a headless chicken for the last half hour before despatching a sliced stoppage-time volley into the Kop, and Delph was thrown on in a vain attempt to add some nous in the middle but none of the manager’s substitutions made much of an impact.
Instead, it was a Klopp change, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, who forced the last save of the game in the 74th minute, shooting low towards Pickford’s near post but the England international was equal to it.
Ultimately, Everton’s failure to put a single effort on target in the final hour of the match was a damning indictment of the performance and the players who plumbed new depths of awfulness in a season that will almost certainly be defined by it if things don’t change markedly over the remainder of another lost season.
Just four games into a tenure he may already be regretting, Ancelotti will have had his eyes opened to the problems that exist in this squad and the amount of work that will be required to turn it around. So early in his reign, this one wasn’t on the manager; this was squarely on a group of players who have largely escaped the worst of the criticism and allowed Marco Silva to carry the can but now have nowhere left to hide. They were handed a route into the fourth round and they bottled it. Put frankly, they were a disgrace to the shirt and the badge.
Reader Comments (379)
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1 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:10:50
2 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:16:51
3 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:17:48
4 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:17:59
The good thing is that early on, Ancelotti has seen the mental weakness of these players against City and against a team of Lpool youngsters.
My hope is that he now recognises the need for at least one physically & mentally strong centre mid who can drive the team forwards and teach some nous to our young players, and the older ones who are interested.
We have too many weak players who don't score goals. That must change, I'd like to think Ancelotti knows who we need.
5 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:22:40
Everton now return to normal with extra holidays, as usual, since they are out of FA Cup and League Cup, in addition to the International breaks. God help us.
Ancelotti did not learn from the Man City game and did not consult with Big Dunc regarding best tactics. He has got a right kick in the ass at Anfield as a result, which he deserves.
Everton in that second half where unfit and unprepared.
6 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:24:00
Say what you like about Liverpool but their players now have a desire to win a pride in the shirt and the club. Effort and application, pride.
We have none of that, from top to bottom Everton FC is riddled with mediocrity, gutless, spineless and disgraceful.
Everton FC left me feeling ashamed tonight. Ashamed.
7 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:25:41
Whoever gave the massive contracts to Sygi, Schneiderlin, Walcott etc need to hang their heads in shame.
Not just the inflated salaries but the actual length of their contracts is disgusting. They need to leave the club this season, no if's or buts, they simply have nothing left to offer the club as player's.
As soon as were safe from the dreaded R word, Carlo has to give the likes of Anthony Gordon and some of the other highly rated youngsters a run in the team, can they honestly fare any worse than the three above?
I hope the manger is ruthless, he needs to be.
9 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:26:54
10 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:30:12
Never in all my years watching Everton, have I witnessed a 2nd half display as bad as that, ever.
A midfield so bereft of any idea whatsoever, against a bunch of kids who, "ran rings around them."
That display summed up the disgraceful mis-management of the clubs recruitment policy of the past 4 years.
Carlo genuinely needs a new 11, these spineless fuckers should be replaced by the under 23,s in the league.
11 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:33:04
Klopp schooled Ancelotti today, starting on Friday by letting it be known he was playing the kids. That saw Everton odds tumble and we became favourites to win the game. Pressure now on us... What Ancelotti should've done is the same thing. Told the press the League was more important and chucked some of our Under-23s in. Best in the country... aren't they?
Anyhow, Ancelotti pressed the same self-destruct button as Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce and Marco Silva loved to press. Carlo played the duds and we lost. Surely 4 or 5 of our kids could've done better than the walking dead that played today? Ancelotti bottled it and he morphed into Marco Silva today. The buck stops with him.
I wanted Big Duncan to stay in charge until the season end. The top-draw elite players and clubs Ancelotti is used to managing are a different animal altogether, it's a different art form. A different interpretation of the game to where he is now at Everton. Chalk and Cheese. Carlo is not cut out for this type of football.
The intensity Duncan Ferguson brought with him has vanished. Ancelotti appears as clueless as Silva on this showing. This is worse than the 5-2 loss last month. We all know the players that got the other managers the sack. Pity Carlo doesn't recognise a poor player when he sees one. That starting 11 today had Marco and Ronald written all over it.
12 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:33:50
I never thought that Shankly's boast that the best two teams on Merseyside were Liverpool and Liverpool reserves would actually come true.
13 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:39:40
What happened to Beningme? Always injured. He looked so promising when he was in the first team and the signing of the equally injured Gbamim was baffling. Gordon has to be given a serious chance ahead of Walcott. Other than this, we need to sign players and let youth have a serious chance. Letting Lundström go was clearly a big mistake. Who else will come back to haunt us from the crop of promising youngsters nurtured by Unsworth? We cant allow more young players to go without them having a chance while the first team squad is crammed full of proven failures.
Oh, and yes, we have an injury list, but this was their C team.
14 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:40:09
I do think, as fans, we dont know what we want. We criticise players for losing it when trying something going forward. The result is a midfield who always play safe, and inept performances like this.
Although Ive slated Sigurdsson, we were instantly poorer when Delph came on.
The only players to come out of this game with any credit were Pickford, Holgate, Mina and DCL - whereas Richalison was ok.
I said after the last game that wed have been better off with Big Dunc in charge for this game and the City game and I stand by that. Not saying that hes better than Carlo, but hes have had the team playing better than that.
15 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:43:14
If I was Ancellotti I'd be having them in one at a time and leaving them in no uncertain terms that performances like that are totally unacceptable. Can accept a lot of poor things but no pride in the shirt or themselves leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson are far too slow as a midfield pairing, Digne is not the player of last season, Coleman's legs have gone. Tosun, Walcott and others simply not good enough. We need to stop buying other teams rejects ad buy hungry players.
16 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:47:55
17 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:01
Not tonight. That was as bad as it could get. No excuses for a heart breaking performance by a team who as you quite rightly say, no longer deserve the right to wear the shirt. In fact going further, I would be happy if many of them are shipped out this month. They deserve it. We don't.
A massive restructure is required and few of the current incumbents should or will survive.
I am tired of looking for others to blame for the mess we are in, but the truth is what we saw tonight was an abject display from the players. Totally unacceptable from pure effort alone.. if I was Ancelotti I would bring in every player and tell them one at a time that they have no future at the club or those who he deems fit, that they have to the end of the season to justify keeping.
I have never, ever seen an Everton team in all my days without the desire to fight. ( Moyes had me think it was poor, but this?)
Make a statement. Sack a few high profile players immediately.
Keep on doing it until the penny drops.
Angry...Upset.. embarrassed.. but most of all ashamed to be a blue. Thats how low I am. Not even relegation hurts as much..
18 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:28
That was a disgrace an absolute shambles and probably the most embarrassing defeat of my 60 years supporting this club.
There is not a player in that squad I could give a toss about if we sold tonight.
19 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:37
Strong word to use but fitting for several of our players today.
Some players played very badly and sometimes good players do, BUT there's no excuse for cowardice and it can't be forgiven.
20 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:56:13
I feel like you that I don't want to go the next match. I like most of us, sick the way we are playing. We were getting beat are still trying to play from the back. I feel the players who start playing the ball from the back. are the unfit ones in the team. Just taping the ball to each other, means they don't have to run about. Shankly did say there were two teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. He got that slightly wrong It should have been the youth team. This is the worse time I have been embarrassed to be an Evertonian. Even when Tranmere beat us it was not as bad as this
21 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:57:02
I agree that Everton trying to play the ball around at the back is tantamount to footballing suicide, and it makes no sense that players who already lack confidence and ability need that extra pressure put upon them. Is this due to Moshiri, asking for a certain style of play from his manager(s)? Do the likes of Siggy, Walcott and Snides have to be chosen to play, due to their salaries or because of the instructions of the owner?
I don't know what to think about the club and the players at this moment in time, but for a brief period of a fortnight or so we thought the team was back in shape and ready to fully represent us out on the pitch. But the last two games have shown us all that it was a blip and the reality is what we have witnessed for much of the last five years.
Money hasn't solved the problems it has made things worse, but someone has to take ownership of the issues facing the club and they must think long and hard about what the 'project' actually means.
I'll be happy when I see eleven players on the pitch able to pass a ball correctly more often than misplacing or under/over hitting them, shoot accurately more often than not and eleven players who fall to their knees at the end of a match because they've given their all for the cause - I fear it may be a long time before I feel happy again.
22 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:59:44
Coleman has gone, whatever combination of central defenders you choose thay totally lack pace and confidence under pressure, Schneiderlin,Sigurdsson and Delph are ravaged by age and injuries, they are useless and Richarlison plays on his own, I've yet to see poor Kean get five touches in the cameos he's played. Ancelotti and Brands will earn their corn if they turn this lot round.
Are Davies, Tosun andBernard really worse than the pathetic lot we put out today.
Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves! He was right.
23 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:00:34
24 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:02:37
25 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:06:08
Really need to adopt a more direct approach.
Imagine having to vote a player of the year for this lot towards the end of the season...
26 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:08:30
I hope Carlo has some answers where the others failed. This performance reeked of mental weakness and no confidence. The more I watched the more I felt there was no beating heart of this team. We are weak physically, for speed and mentally in the middle of the park. Tom Davies comes in for some stick but he is head and shoulders above Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin who have done absolutely nothing to be starting ahead of him.
Some serious wheeler dealer-ing needs to be done to get some players out that need a fresh start to reignite their careers. Most of all we need to get a quality central midfielder in until our first choices Gomes and Gbamin return. Ancelotti will step up the search from tomorrow, guaranteed.
Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott , Bolaise, Tosun, Niasse and one or two more are now journeymen, earning a massive wage, and have not and never will, improve the team. Brands has the impossible/difficult task of selling or trading them. Our immediate future is tied to his success at doing it. Best of luck to him.
27 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:09:43
28 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:10:51
Never has there been such a disconnect between Everton fans and the team
Occasionally in the past, Everton may have been a poor team in the eyes of other supporters. This game has made us a laughing stock.
29 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:10:58
30 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:13:37
31 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:14:16
Absolute bunch of losers. I can understand the manager picking that side and expecting better but completely agree that he isnt blameless either. But seriously, how can professional footballers, pretty much all Internationals come out and play like that. Id be fuming if my 3 year old daughter passed like these idiots. I dont get it.
Bin the lot of them, starting with the dickhead in goal. Most overrated keeper ever and get rid whilst we can still get a decent fee for him. Its only a matter of time before everyone realises how crap he really is.
I never want to see Sigurdson, Walcott or Schneiderlin in the shirt again. Need a whole new midfield bit if we cant buy this January, play some kids. They really cant do any worse.
32 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:15:10
I dont really blame Ancelotti, now knows the dross he has and their complete lack of pride in the shirt and respect for the fans. In 59 years of watching and supporting this club, I have never felt more embarrassed. The only possible positive I can take from this is that you need to reach rock bottom before you can make your way up. I hope this is rock bottom.
33 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:16:03
I want to go out on loan for two years!
I shall return to a team that can pass, control and the shirt actually means something!
Knowing my luck, my transfer request will be turned down. Morgan schneiderlin will be given a three year contract and Gomes is like a new signing. Everton fans are not chosen. They are handed down by their fathers as punishment. Even friends once made jokes take pity. Carlo must be in shock. Welcome Carlo to our world. The doctor will see you soon.
34 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:20:55
Shrewsbury 2 Everton 1 (the year Shrewsbury were relgated to Conference)
Everton 0 Tranmere 3
Everton 0 Wigan 3 (missed opportunity in Cup)
Semi v Liverpool at Wembley (1 up at HT and still lost)
Many thrashings in Europe by not even the top teams and in the league, Blackburn, and WBA scoring 4 at Goodison.
For me the best football on the eye in that time was Martinez first season, and the 2008 season. Even when we finished 4th winning 1- 0 mainly the football was not great to watch.
Todays performance however was shameless and as bad as it's been, but it's also been 20 years in the making. Even when I saw both starting line ups I had a nagging feeling we won't do it with S&S in the team. I was reminded of the FA cup semi v UTD when we could only beat a much weakend UTD team on penalties.
I just don't think Mosh has the money for what is required even now finally we have a manager who has dined at the top table.
Looking at the hight standard of the young Liverpool players of the future, it looks like our B Team, U23s is not fit for purpose. What are they doing that we are not?
35 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:22:27
A complete utter embarrassment.
Lyndon, you write so well but I must disagree with you on 1 thing: this was DEFINITELY on Ancellotti. How could he think we were good enough to play through their press? Especially after seeing the first half?
We should have played longer passes to get them turning OR he should have put an extra midfielder in there to change our 442 to a 433
Duncs team wouldnt have been as disgraceful
What next? If I were Klopp Id play my 4th choice team against us. And I bet we would fare just as badly
There is NO excuse for that today. Today I hated being an Evertonian. Its just been disappointment after disappointment
The red lot wanted it more and are a credit to their club. Our lot were pathetic and I will never ever forgive them for today. There is nothing they can realistically do to redeem themselves
Bunch of cretins
36 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:23:51
And Ancelotti, for all his credentials, has, like all of his recent predecessors, failed to understand the importance of winning the derby, going by that supine surrender in the second half. What did he say at half time? "Careful now, they're only kids."???
We're at the point now where a derby win is not to be considered a luxurious topping to any season; rather, it's an absolute demand on which any Everton manager's tenure must stands or fall. This run of derby failures is utterly unacceptable.
37 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:25:29
38 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:25:52
One third of the inept midfield was his, both full backs, the headless one who cane off the bench and Bernard - who is becoming more and more invisible every time he plays. Granted Mina didnt do a lot wrong today, but hes not exactly been a £30million defender. Our best 4 players today (Im including Walcott for his first half performance) were Holgate (Martinez), Pickford (Walsh), DCL (widely believed to be Rhino) and Walcott (Allardyce).
39 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:26:54
Liverpool took our ground, Shankley robbed our jokes, and now there fans are after our soul?
I saw the 1995 banner I heard the song and watching on my telly I was thinking we havent won in Europe since they killed 39.
Horrible thoughts for this ultra, politically correct, phoney,
modern world, but dont let them take our soul, surely we are made of much stronger stuff than a lot of the cowards who dont give a fuck for our shirt?
40 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:27:26
It's a ticket to perpetual embarrassment and dismissive mockery.
Today was the latest rotting cabbage to be hurled at our rotten bonce.
We've got too many career footballers at the club, going through the motions and banking the salary. They don't care about Everton too much, its a job. That kind of detached mentality seeps into the squad at all levels. It shows itself for what it is on match days. We are a bunch of players, and not a team.
41 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:28:41
'All they have to do, is pull on a blue shirt, and pass the ball to another guy in a blue shirt... but none of them can do it'.
…… well, quite!
42 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:29:07
Everton have lead for a total of seven minutes.
43 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:05
It really worries me that Carlos put him and Sigs together in the midfield.
44 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:16
A few beers helps sooth the pain but its life time pain and embarrassment.
Tony@40, spot on, thats the way it is as an Evertonian.
Its like a parable from the Old Testament, but the facts behind the consistent let down, which is EFC, are all true.
And Old Nick rises, and is ascending to greater achievements.
I hope that the board provide Carlo a war chest this summer, as a total overhaul of the squad is needed.
Not many of todays squad should survive the cull, if and when it comes.
45 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:47
This is how you get loanees like Sidibe working harder for the shirt than full time contracted players.
Brands is looking increasingly like a phony DoF who buys more duds than winners.
I don't buy that getting a top striker is hard.
Ashamed to say it but a top striker wont touch us with a barge pole, only a mercenary that wants a big payday.
As a club right now we are doomed.
46 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:36:12
47 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:38:34
It is the spineless tossers on the pitch to blame for this.
Senior players such as Coleman, Walcott and Sigurdssen should have been screaming at the players that this was a great chance to beat them, instead they don't lead but hide.
48 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:42:16
We will always be Everton fans, And they know it thats why they hate us.
49 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:46:54
The lack of professionalism and care today, in my view suggests that theres some thing missing at a Finch Farm. What the hell happened in the second half, ?
No pride and unforgivable today. I hope theres no, more apologetic remorse stories in the media, from these players.
It wont wash any more.
Patience is needed but EFC, cant wait forever.
This defeat today is legend, and increases the pressures on a very daunting job for CA.
50 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:49:17
Any good boozers in the town centre that doesnt have a telly??
51 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:49:41
I don't give a monkeys f++k what they hate.
I do care that the present team are disconnected with what Everton fans and their team are all about.
52 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:05:14
We mention a lot about playing for the shirt! But very few among the top clubs do so these days. Our shirt represents our history and directly represents those of us who have an immovable passion and love for Everton. Only those who are born into and raised with this club, aside to some very special players who come here and become one of us and embrace the club ( Howard, Bally, Unsy, Sheeds, Sharpy, Duncan, Tim among many others) will truly play for the honour of representing the Everton shirt. As much as we expect it of all of our players it's not the case. They are playing for the benefit of their own career ambitions along with team they are a part of. We need to invest equally in bringing 'our own' through again so that an Everton team has its identity equally as much as it has journeyman outstanding players from around the world.
That lot across the park seem to have got the blueprint!
53 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:06:18
As brutal and as honest an indictment of the players as I could imagine.
54 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:08:24
When we were lads growing up, you were judged on your actions and on your loyalty and bravery toward your peers and your own self respect. If you failed to show these, you were ostracised to the extent of becoming irrelevant to your peers and labelled a loser.
There would be no big forgive and forget so you were screwed.
These are the type of losers I saw playing for our club today. In life you must have the 3 D's- desire, discipline and determination to even have half a chance of succeeding.
I did not see anyone in a blue shirt with that today.
I have no respect for anyone who can't show respect to their family, work or performance.
What I saw today were a bunch of expensively assembled, spoilt, childish, disrespectful and work shy men I only have a deep pity for as they are short of moral fibre and heart.
Out muscled by kids, out thought by kids, with not the bravery to run harder, fight more, contest anything and do anything to gain the upper hand.
What I saw today was a team of snowflakes who always melt when the heats on.
They have managed to attain the 3 D's though-unfortunately the 3 know one wants-disrespectful, dire and disloyal.
To question a man's integrity and pride is the ultimate, but tonight I question everyone of theirs.
Good luck Mr Ancelloti, you have been dealt a poisoned hand.
55 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:12:19
56 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:13:25
What an odd and pointless thing to say?
Theyre siting there rightfully proud of their 1st and 2nd teams and in shoring here (like many blues) totally ashamed of my lot
In the last 20 years theyve had players that stand up for the shirt and win trophies. And win REPEATEDLY away at Chelsea & Arsenal & Utd. We dont (weve won once at OT)
Eric. What are you talking about man????
My Liverpool mates dont hate me - they PITY me!!!
‘It must be awful to support a club that never wins trophies, cant win away at any decent team and always pee the bed against mighty Liverpool
You know what? It IS awful. I hate it. My club and its wretched players are useless. None of it deserves pride. Only some yesteryear brilliance if youre old enough to have loved it (Im 40, in not old enough)
So why why why in gods name would they hate us? We are an irrelevance, nay, an easy 3 points to them. Trust me - they dont hate us. They love us
57 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:15:34
58 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:16:50
Everton obituary. Everton FC died today. The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Anfield.
59 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:19:35
Now we are spineless coward mercenaries who dont really give a shit if we win or lose. We lost a cup tie 1-0 playing a non league side. Wow thats never happened before has it. Know your history my arse.
Today was not good but is anyone really surprised that we lost today? Is anyone doubting that in spite of today the future is looking brighter at this moment than it has done for a lot of years.
60 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:21:00
For me a new captain on the park, some one forcefully, firm but fare and narky, must be planned, as we are rudderless and leaderless on the park.
Scary today as well, as if the s are developing their youngsters on this scale, via home grown and international recruitment, then, it looks like we are deeper in the crap, than we realise, in view of the next 5 years.
Surely soon, Evertons fortunes will change, for the better?
I hope so, as Im past the half way house, and in reality, its not gonna happen soon, bar a miracle.
61 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:25:37
I'm sorry but if you can't see today as being on one of the darkest days in our all-time history never mind recent history then you must have experienced some very dark days indeed.
62 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:25:54
And when we did go long their kids mopped up there as well.
Kids. Who'd have 'em.
63 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:29:50
One of the worse things we have ever done is come into money under Moshiri and at the same time keep Kenwright at the club pulling strings. The money the club has spent on sacking managers alone is staggering. How Moshiri is even a "billionaire" with his so called business acumen is a mystery.
64 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:06
65 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:12
Ancellotti needs to carry some of the blame for defending so deep and inviting the pressing by the Liverpool team of kids. Worse than the semi final, worse than the 86,89 finals, worse than the 5-0 home defeat in 1980s. Ive got to go to work tomorrow and listen to a load of armchair kopites dispense their usual banter.
Apparently he is going to talk to each individual player tomorrow he should invite one of us in with him for some brutal honesty. I hope Usmanov has deep pockets because we need some quality in now. Every time I think we cant sink any lower this fucking football club breaks my heart. The Samaritans should have a special line just for Blues fans.
66 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:24
67 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:29
However, I needed to publicly add my support to Lyndon's heartfelt comments and hope those high up in the club can read the shame and embarrassment that second half performance has caused us all in the Everton community. As it was from Lyndon rather than anyone else, I hope it can reach them and make them squirm these next few days.
68 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:34:58
69 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:43:42
He played Schneiderlin. Possibly the biggest waste of space I've known in nearly 40 years of supporting the Blues.
Why do all our coaches persist with him? Tom Davies would have given us bite and energy through the middle. Instead the crash test dummy came in and, guess what, another embarrassing defeat came.
At least with Davies we go down fighting rather than this pathetic surrender that Schneiderlin is nearly always culpable for.
Similarly Gylfi. Totally pathetic.
70 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:43:50
71 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:45:36
Sorry but I will say it again. For all the eyebrow raises and experience winning with the biggest teams in the world, Carlo has never been in a dogfight like this before. I fear he is not the man for this situation. Duncan would simply not have tolerated that performance.
Now I'm off to apologise to my sons for introducing them to Everton. My Kopite brothers have always joked it was a form of child abuse - maybe they have a point.
72 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:45:43
Pickford gained a huge 5/10 whilst Siggy scored 2; the rest were either rated 3 or 4.
73 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:46:31
Duncan is probably thinking tonight , 'my hands where tied', because the current Manager won't listen to me, as per usual.
I have no doubt the result would have been different if Duncan had been in charge.
74 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:49:12
Clearly this board are pulling in different directions and something smells rotten to the core.
Cancel the contracts of the likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Walcott. Add the extra millions to the £100 million excess loss already made if it meant not watching those poor excuses of footballers.
75 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:50:02
Why introduce that messing around at the back when we can't pass the thing.
Why not go direct to DCL and play to his strengths.
Don't get me wrong the players where pathetic and should shoulder equal blame and be able to take initiative.
Ancelotti will have to learn to play to the players strengths not that they have many.
Get Pickford to smash it up the pitch. Get DCL to win headers. Get Richarleson in the box and tell the others to fight like fuck to get the ball. It's not brain surgery.
Too many shithouses in the squad.
If we don't see a reaction against Brighton we could end up getting dragged back into the relegation battle and this current squad of gobshites don't have any fight in them to get out of it.
76 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:51:24
We should have converted at least one of our chances, and from the quality of those opportunities, perhaps two or three of them.
If we had then this forum would not be the shitfest I am now witnessing.
You don't take your chances and you lose. Simple.
True that the second half was shockingly bad, but we all knew that Siggy can't play deep with Schnides and Walcott never lasts a whole game. We know Digne is awful this term.
The worrying thing is that Duncan and co haven't told Mr Ancelotti that these guys are shit.
I said yesterday, like Colin, that Klopp was going to put us in a lose-lose situation, so we should also play our kids plus a few old heads. It's not like we were going to win the cup anyway.
All we did was give Klopp and all of his fans in the BBC and the media the chance to applaud his kids ad let them off (poor dears) if they came up short.
Klopp - I detest. He is so very calculating. It is a real shame that he got it right again.
Carlo has now seen why we are in our position. It won't be a quick fix- it isn't so simple anymore. There are guys on contracts (some might have clauses that they must play whenever fit, who knows!) Plus we are so short on options and we need points to maintain the illusion of wellbeing.
We simply have to put up with our slow, aging players and pampered wimps until we can offload them.
We have to pretend to like them until at least the summer
Rome will be built...but not in a day.
77 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:53:05
78 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:55:13
The second half was, without doubt, the worst half of football I have ever seen Everton play. We didn't have one decent attempt on goal. We just stood off their midfield and let them play like they were seasoned premier league players. I watched the RS team play away to villa in the league cup, and while they got beat 5-0, I don't think they deserved a 5-0 defeat. Yet it seemed like our lot today just thought they only had to turn up and the game was ours.
God knows how many times I've been to Analfield, but what I do know is, I've only seen us win there twice, and one of those was a league cup game. The other being the last time we won there. I've now resigned myself to the fact that I will never see us win there again.
As someone mentioned above, Klopp probably doesn't want to win this season's FA Cup. This might sound like sour grapes, but the RS will not get beyond the fourth round if Klopp plays the same team again. Any decent championship team will beat them, and certainly any premier team will, simply because they will have more heart, desire, passion, and whatever other adjective you can think of.
Tomorrow morning in training you Everton players, just think of it as you pick up your thousands of pounds in wages, you were beaten by a bunch of Fucking kids. I hope your wages make you feel a little better because right now there are eight thousand blues fans there today, and millions more worldwide, who right now probably want to kick the shit out of every single one of you.
79 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:00:34
I used to think LFC had sold their soul to the devil by the amount of luck and dodgy officials protection they've received over the years but now I know that LFC instill a work ethic into every single one of their players that will be questioned and acted upon if they fall below their standards set. RIP Everton.
80 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:03:25
Is this the first derby weve ever played without even one local lad on the field?
81 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:08:42
I was embarrassed to even witness that spineless effort.
I rode into New York with a kopite friend. Over breakfast our eyes mulled over the team news. I was aghast, he was incredulous.
Klopp pulled a blinder, a team-sheet which shifted the pressure fully to Everton to win a game he patently didnt want to.
A Liverpool manager that couldnt be arsed with a cup derby? I knew straight away we were completely screwed.
The pressure was too much, we snatched at every touch, the angst writ large on players faces, knowing the ignominy that awaited if they couldnt beat an academy side.
Palpable were my shouts when we missed three grade A chances, composure a total stranger to this team.
Ancelotti looked ashen.
It ebbed away without any attempt to wrest the advantage, we subsided with a whimper and that has to be worse than any thrashing we have ever been handed by that lot.
They werent bothered, didnt care and reveled in the ineptitude of our despair.
What we have can only be described as chronic and with no known cure. Everton you are pitiful and deserve nothing from us. Every penny should be refunded to the away end and their wages donated to charity, not ourselves (of course) as we are the very definition of a charity case.
82 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:08:45
These kids should never have had the nous to beat professional players in their prime...internationals from Brazil, Colombia, France,England, Iceland and ireland.
There are no excuses.
Ancelotti would have looked at their pedigree and thought it was straightforward.
These guys have embarrassed themselves as well as the rest of us.
The sad thing is, this lot couldn't raise themselves to save Silva in their last Anfield outing. They have no confidence and no pride.
83 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:13:43
84 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:13:51
I agree with the echo ratings. Kean I feel got 4 , because frankly Everton where not up that end of the pitch. His failed volley was a carbon copy of a previous failed attempt.
I hope the players really get to know their ratings. Safe Finch Farm they will quickly return to not being bothered.
In his interview after the game Ancelotti said 'We where not able to build from the back'. The problem is the players have never been capable to do so and this is obvious before this game.
85 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:22:36
86 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:23:11
87 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:27:07
A local semi pro team or decent ale house team would have beaten us tonight.
It's not the size of the man in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the man and our bunch of shit bags would have been beaten by our own u23s tonight.
Pathetic the lot of it.
88 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:29:41
89 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:36:03
We can analyse the team's obvious failings - the inability to cope with their press, the massive black hole where other teams - in a radical tactical idea, have this thing called a 'midfield', the inability to take chances when they sit up on a plate etc etc - but in different guises we've seen similar failings over decades.
Today for me though got to the root of the rotten core of the game now - for when it comes down to it, really comes down to it, they don't care all that much.
The morning after the last Derby humiliation Tosun put a video on social media of him scoring for Turkey. The previous night's result didn't seem to bother him for a second.
They are simply paid too much and - as I think another poster Colin alluded to - don't get the significance of the game in the way a local lad surely would. Peter Reid would have been grabbing his own team mates by the throat out there today. I'd loved to have seen it.
90 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:38:43
We have one of the top managers on the planet.
We also have a brilliant director of football.
We will soon have a new Ground.
We also have medal mega millions behind the club.
We will soon have at least another center half
We will soon have a serious creative midfielder
We will also have Gomes and Gbamin back at some point. (The G Force)
We will soon be replacing some of our presently inadequate players
We have three players who are fast maturing into real stars. It is worth the wait.
Plus a lot of the moaners who never have a good word to say on ToffeeWeb have promised to give us up entirely which will be great for morale because there will be bumps along the way and we dont really need faint hearted whiners practicing there anti Everton hatred on our beloved piece of Gods blue earth.
91 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:39:21
92 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:39:31
My point is that our team would have been beaten by any organised football team.
We are a shambles.
93 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:43:05
94 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:43:43
I agree with Brent@52. Shows what a big challenge is there for Carlo.
Others' comments re Brands can be premature. It will be interesting to see how Carlo and Brands work together. Currently depressed about the team but positive about going forward with Carlo at the helm.
95 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:44:47
Your reminding me of the knight in the Monty Python film.
Your optimism should be commended.
I just can't find or drag one ounce of positivity out of the game today.
96 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:49:07
Kids playing the way they did is a testimony to how well they have been coached. I have been thinking for some time, our academy players do well, win league b or whatever it is, then get around the first team in their early 20s. Those lads playing yesterday are on the fringes of the first team a couple of years earlier
The pressing they applied was relentless and co ordinated. Ours was single players chasing defenders and keepers then being easily bypassed, often taken out of the game by a turn and pass. They didnt let our players nJe the pass. Turn and find another red shirt in their way. It really was a quite brilliant display and embarrassing that it was so effective.
They had two experienced players for most of the match. Siggy and Morgan made Lallana look like Messi, AOC when he came on showed Richarlison how to run with the ball and not give away possession.
Cant blame Carlo for that performance. Basics not being done by well paid players. Walcott looked good for the first half, then turned in a horror showing in the 2nd. Only he can understand how his foot turned to lead
It was also telling how much better the young Liverpool players were at their crisp passing and ball control. They zipped passes around. Their passes stuck. Our lads were ponderous and the looseness of control bewildering
Barring injuries that should be the last we see of Morgan. Siggy at least has a role to play higher up but better get used to the bench.
Kean should start instead of Walcott to at least get him game time, not that his efforts so far have earned it
97 Posted 05/01/2020 at 00:00:38
It's been the same way for years with them. I remember crying all the way back from the 86 cup final as a kid on a coach full of reds with my arl fella (RIP) thinking how the hell did we lose that game. Higher powers at work with them. Liverpool are a confidence team, led by Klopp (the big cheerleader). He's a great manger because like Ferguson and all great mangers he gets his players to buy into his system. But...he's also got hugely lucky with transfers and hasn't had the mistakes of his predecessors hung over him.
We're a long (long) way behind them and we need to back a manager, that understands our “style” and not sell our best assets. Liverpool are 10 league trophies and 6 European cups ahead of us. Let's focus on us, our future and stop worrying and agonising about them. And then it might just happen. COYB
98 Posted 05/01/2020 at 00:00:45
99 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:11:46
100 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:31:06
Just read your link, excellent.
Lyndon, spot on as usual.
101 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:56:28
We need to be decisive and move players out either on loans or sell them quickly if we don't feel that they'll make the grade. The academy needs to pay. How the fuck do the RS get £20m for shite like Solanke and we end up getting peanuts for our players who have gone through the same England youth sides.
I didn't know that the RS youth side trained with the first team. Maybe that's something we should be doing. I know the idea that all our players should play a certain way was muted under Martinez, but Ancelotti doesn't have a fixed philosophy on how the game should be played so I don't know if it would work as well for us.
This needs to be looked at by Brands, He's the guy buying youth players and loaning youth players out. Unsworth's done a great job but I do wonder sometimes why players like Niasse and Cuco Martina should be getting games. Niasse was recently played in a game instead of Ellis Simms. Is that because Unsworth is trying to get results over nurturing the young talent at his disposal?! I don't know, but if so, that might be why we have very few players in contention for the first team squad
Having just read through this I wish I'd have put this forward for consideration for it's own thread by Michael cos the U 23 set up only seems to get praise, but it isn't achieving in what it's really meant to do, by producing players good enough for the first team.
102 Posted 06/01/2020 at 01:16:24
103 Posted 06/01/2020 at 01:44:39
104 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:04:13
105 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:05:19
Saw Lyndon's title, and I thought, well ya, gotta have a read of this.
Usually I look forward to Lyndon's articles to temper my own rash, emotional, over the top reactions to all things Everton.
And what do I read? A much more polite, professional version of?
FUCK OFF YOU OVERPAID PRICKS!
Thank you Lyndon. It gives me great solace to know I'm not overreacting.
Diabolical today. Disgraceful.
106 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:41:34
107 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:03:21
Its clear that their young players are in tune with what their manager wants. They came up against accommodating opponents but kept doing what they were expected to do and prevailed. I cant get over how good their passing was. I recall years back reading something in an interview with Gerrard about the passing drills at Liverpool. Basically from day one they were trained to fizz passes at each other. It was expected that you could control the ball and pass in the same fashion. Watching them play it would appear that that same mantra has been maintained.
Our seasoned pros in comparison couldnt control even the tamest of passes and running with the ball seemed to be some alien concept.
Basically, they have better players, better coaches and a better long term strategy.
Oh, and deeper pockets still
108 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:03:47
109 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:21:25
Im also as mad as anyone to witness such a guileless performance in such a big game.
We have a team that has been put together by by 4 different managers. But for the first time really since the heady days of John Moores we now have a real chance of sustainable success. Why go back to Moores when Kendalls 80s team was even more successful ? The 80s team we caught lightening in a bottle with players and management I doubt if it was sustainable. Even then there was not a lot of money behind the club and the European ban sent us reeling so much so that we never caught up.
The reason I feel more optimistic than even those wonderful days when John Moores cheques ruled is that we are entering an era where Everton the business is going to be just huge and an era when we will be able to compete with the biggest European clubs. I think we might just get a clue of just how big we intend to be this month.
Dont be to down people.
110 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:27:56
111 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:29:36
I cannot even ARTICULATE how much that loss hurt.
Can only be matched by the annoyance of the crap I get from being a lone Irish toffee with literally every mate being a Red, .
Compared to the relagation battling 94 squad, who had@ least pride & passion, this group are soulless, and unfortunately this may not even be rock bottom.
Embarrassment, that all this club is right now,
A FUCKING EMBARRASMENT...
112 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:31:25
Nine of the players who played that day, played in yesterdays dreadful performance against a much weakened Liverpool team. The two changes were Keane and Iwobi ( v Chelsea ) and Coleman and Mina in against Liverpool.
The only changes made and yet the team performance against Chelsea and against Liverpool were incomparable.
How can a squad of professionals with experience of international football for their respective countries, years of premier league experience against all the big clubs and a world class manager, albeit only his fourth game in charge in a very short space of time.
How can the players, (I don't blame the manager), fail so utterly, be so comprehensively out played, out manoeuvred, out run, out motivated, out thought and out of the only chance of a confidence building cup run and opportunity to win at Anfield against our ever present nemesis.
I wonder about some of our players, Walcott, for example, experience of N. London derbies as well, is he really hurting after yesterdays game, is he deeply embarrassed, or is he wondering what restaurant to go for dinner, or whether he should buy a new car. And that goes for all of the players.
The rebuilding of Everton Football Club will happen. In the next five years, we'll have a new ground, very few of the players that attended yesterdays game, will be at the club and there will be newer and better players to replace them.
There will be highs and lows as all clubs experience but hopefully, yesterdays LOW will be THE lowest we ever experience again.
I don't expect a whole raft of new players, FFP regulations put paid to that immediate solution but changes will be made. In the summer, more changes.
Slowly a new squad will be put together, with hopefully some of our academy players making the grade.
Carlo Ancelotti signed a four and a half year contract and it will take that long for us to yet again experience success.
So, onwards and upwards Everton and all of us that love the club. Step aboard the rollercoaster, we're in for a hell of a ride.
113 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:46:54
114 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:51:04
Anybody who thinks we can buy our way out of this mess is in for a big shock, I have already read that unless we qualify for Europe this year the fair play body will be taking a big magnifying glass to Everton's business dealings that could result in more heart ache if we are close to the relegation zone
115 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:10:49
If I were Ancellotti I'd publicly display a list of all those players for whom we will listen to any offer for in this transfer window.
Shame the bastards!
116 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:21:06
Liverpool players celebrate another Derby win.
I might just stop here,
117 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:25:39
It was Ancelottis idea to start Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson. He picked the wrong shape and did little or nothing to change things. He picked Digne ahead of Baines. He had no answer to the high press that led to such fannying around at the back. He watched the goalie and back four pass it round the back like they were on ice knowing that there was not the pace in midfield to collect the ball and run with it but did nothing in his substitutions to address this, certainly not Delph. We needed to play the long ball more often, mind you when we did some pubescent in a red shirt dealt with it. Presumably, any tactical talk at half-time either fell on deaf incapable ears or was misguided or both. He left Schniederlin on the pitch until the final whistle. There is more to say on this but it seems to me that Ancelotti is the author of these mistakes.
That said, some of the vitriol aimed at him on this thread is shameful. He was a stranger a fortnight ago and a fortnight is enough for some to lampoon and lambast him and worse. Thats pathetic. Today was a travesty and Ancelotti must shoulder blame, but he can only work with what he has been dealt and in his pattern of multiple formations and shapes (in one game) and selections and substitutions he is clearly trying different options not to be a miracle worker but to learn. And he will learn. The intelligence and acumen that has been accumulated for several decades now does not jump ship because he has joined us and, importantly for me, he brings a sharp and wise outside eye to our squad. I wouldnt pick a single one of them for my Premiership fantasy team.
The lions share of blame for that unforgivable and brutally atrocious second 45 sits with the ‘players. Im not going to recycle the litany of sometimes thoughtful analysis and all-too-often primary school dogs invective showered on the players and some in particular already on this thread. But collectively they were a spineless shambles for all of that second half. There was no reaction to the teenagers goal that I could see apart from abject admission of defeat. It worried me that this gutless group – on the basis of the second half – did not react to either the goal or Ancelottis disapproving eye on the touchline. That last failure is not an indictment of the manager but of those headless chickens on the pitch, and it shows in graphic detail the job ahead of him. Another good reason why he was a stranger a fortnight ago, he has zero emotional and historical baggage and will do what is necessary.
The ‘end is nigh stuff on here is farcical. I agree with a lot of what Mike Dolan says on this thread but not all of it. Watching the lads pounce on him like Indians circling wagons is disappointing. He is being far more realistic than his more extreme naysayers.
I have high hopes that we will be in a better position this time next year. But my God so much needs to be done to get there and I do believe that Ancelotti has what it takes to make it happen.
118 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:05:32
I dread seeing his name on any team sheet, he seems to spread that disease to all around him without getting involved, and how anyone can 'disappear' on a pitch of 22 is beyond me, but he manages it!
The writing was on the wall when Unsworth was temporarily in charge at Finch Farm when he and Mirallas were dismissed from Training for not showing the right attitude and not getting involved enough, and being disruptive to team-mates.
What has changed since then?
Well Mirallas has moved on, but this maggot is still there. People will no doubt come on and still defend his corner, and point the finger at me, saying I always have it in for him, yes, I wonder why is my answer to them.
Why have successive Managers still picked him? I sincerely hope there has not been pressure from a certain area of the Board, to the effect, he cost £25M and is one of the highest earners you have to play him!
You only have to have one rotten apple in a barrel, and the rest will shortly follow suit!
119 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:09:47
Second half was a complete disgrace. Ancelottis eyebrow was raised higher than his head.
Kean is awful. If you thought Lukaku had a bad first touch this kid takes it to a whole new level. It's like watching someone play pinball. DCL and Richarlison can't do it week in week out so yes we desperately need a top striker. Also needed is a midfield general.
At the back both full backs Digne and Sidibe were so bad words can't describe it.
A lot needed. What a joke of a game. Were they embarrassed to be facing their second string? We need Gbamin back, we need something. A few years in now and Moshiri has spent a fortune on mediocre players.
I sat shivering in the desert last night in darkness... I could have cried. Ffs it couldn't get any worse. Could it?
120 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:28:05
121 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:32:33
Remember Silva saying we can't lose Schneiderlin now? Thats part of why he looked fed up before the Palace game. Left with scraps
122 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:54:57
- Tosun (tbf he didn't play yesterday)
- Niasse (he didnt play either but is still on the books for no reason)
- Martina (hopefully gone by summer)
More to the point - we should NEVER buy rejects from other clubs on the wrong side of 20s looking for a final pay cheque. There aren't any more Barry's and Milners left.
123 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:35:12
I have supported this team since before 1963 and I honestly say that 2nd half is the most humiliating 45 minutes of football I have witnesses from any team in my life. How can I stop this anger, I lost sleep last night thinking about how some of those players were strolling around the park not giving a shit about the shirt. Us supporters go though agony yet these bstards will turn up and get paid thousands for a performance like that, its disgusting. I cant imagine how the 8000 must have felt being there and living with the consequences living in the city. Some of those players should never wear a blue shirt again, if I did my job as bad as they do (and some on a regular basis) I'd be sacked, simple, contract or not. We just can't 'turn off' the anger watching that sort of performance, some players will just not case less, Astone Villa beat that team easily yet we couldn't get a single shot on target in the 2nd half, pathetic. I wish I could just not support that shower of crap, but we cant can we, its in our blood, and it hurts to think it will be a long long time before this crap is sorted. I basically hate the club at the moment, I hope they do something to change that.
124 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:47:37
We hit the the lowest point yesterday in the clubs entire Merseyside derby history.
Weve had 20 years from hell in that fixture and yesterday was a chance to go there and completely punish them with a heavy score line for all the years weve suffered, the embarrassment weve had.
But not a single one of our players rocked up yesterday and looked even remotely like a Premier League football player.
From the appalling snail paced passing at the back, the shambolic distribution from Holgate and Mina turning like a Ocean Cruise Liner to Pickford jerking about at the back with knobhead kicking right through to our anonymous midfield and striking options.
The whole team was a collective disgrace to the Blue shirt and has now taken a new low in the embarrassment stakes, its finally bottomed out its horror record in derby matches.
The players WILL get Carlo Ancelotti the sack, Im certain of it.
Just as they said its brilliant working under Marco Silva and then put in diabolical performance levels theyll do the same under Ancelotti and as we know now its always the manager that takes the bullet.
One thing I can feel confident of though is those players that played yesterday, I hope they now understand that performance and result has finally been the straw that broke the camels back and once and for all severed what weak bond this current group had with the fans.
There are no players out there the fans want to like anymore.
125 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:48:52
As I said before many don't like it, but I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions and views, and equally that they have the opportunity to print them on these pages.
I often wonder just what is going on at Board Level, every team has bought the odd rabbit for the price of a Tiger. We seem to have a complete Zoo full of rabbits masquerading as every animal that Noah managed to get into his Ark.
What the hell is going on?
Who is behind all this total incompetence?
I could hazard a guess, but sincerely hope there is nothing more sinister afoot. Like I have said many a time, it's all very well people saying (insert a name) should never play for us again, get rid as soon as possible.
These goons are on Set for Life Lottery style wages and contracts, safe in the knowledge that they have hit the Jackpot, and provided they don't become prodigal or a prolific gambler, or take to substance abuse will be made for life.
It is not easy to get rid, who will buy them, or even loan them, when even half the wages or whatever is agreed is way over the top to start with?
Unfortunately, we as fans are in it for life, these players who genuinely respect and play for the badge seem to be so far away, only to be replaced by pretenders and mercenaries.
126 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:51:48
I cried yesterday - the last time Ic ried I was 7 when Jeff Astle ruined my dream of seeing EFC win the FA Cup - we didn't have a TV in 66. Yesterday something died within me - thank you Everton.
127 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:03:21
I have NEVER been ashamed to be an Everton fan, until yesterday. It might be time to just pack it in now and focus on the good things in life as this is just miserable.
All of the players should be docked a months wages to go to charity for their unprofessionalism and cowardice. I cannot write the insults that they deserve as it would be as disgusting as that performance.
128 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:05:40
129 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:13:38
We have fans that have seen us win titles and trophies calling certain players very good or high potential because of a few moments and its sad. We haven't got anything classy and I knew it when it came through the door.
Look at them horrors across the park compared to us. Even fan wise. They wouldn't have slagged Lukaku all over Social media. They make important players feel important and loved. They stick together. They strive for the top.
Our fans say nothing when we sign a rivals dead wood and then moan when its too late. Its more frustrating than expecting Schneiderlin to play well. Worst still we didn't even kick a fuss when we we selling Lukaku to United who were one place above us.
Sell him abroad if thats the case, didn't even enter heads.
Shocking from bottom to top.
130 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:18:18
You simply cant buy a winning mentality thats drilled into the players that you buy, thats why every player Liverpool sign all knows that its “win at all costs” losing is not a mentality they will accept.
At Everton for too long the players got comfortable with staying in the league and punching above their weight.
The only way to change that would be to sign mega players like City have, Aguero, Kevin de Bruyne ect but thats just never going to happen here at Everton.
Whilst we keep signing castoffs and putting faith in players that are never going to move you forward, performances like yesterday are fast becoming the norm at this club.
Ancelotti will not be able to change it, yesterday has convinced me of that now.
Hes like a billionaire mogul thats decided to buy a used car for a novelty but will quickly realise that it irreparable and beyond fixing.
131 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:28:26
All our new would-be saviour could offer us this morning was that he now had a whole week to address the problems. Most of us would tell him that a whole year will not be long enough !
132 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:32:35
Its always “this time next year” with Everton, we are the Delboy of football.
It hasnt taken Leicester years to get a good team has it?
6 years ago they are a Championship club and look at them since, League Champions in 2016, and probably two Champions League appearances and a League Cup Final.
Wolves under Nuno, win promotion and are instantly a braver bolder better team than us, players that care about the fans.
Everton are a stuck in the mud disgrace.
133 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:38:11
134 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:40:25
I know it offends people but Im not sure I see all these “fine young players we have”.
Im sorry but I just dont.
Fine young players are what you seen on show at Liverpool yesterday, trained to be crisp passers of the ball, confident with the ball at their feet, shooting and high energy.
Our young players are coached poorly thats why virtually none have been able to make a big impact in the Premier League, forget the Under 23 title, thats not what we need, we need players coached with the ability of comfortably making the step to and theres a reason why four managers now dont select anything from the Under 23s.
But I do agree with you on the other part, the senior players have the personality of a frying pan.
135 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:51:50
136 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:58:56
137 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:03:44
They weren't the only culprits but fuck me they were the worst. Notice MS rolling around on the floor before the goal. Two absolute fcuking cowards.
As poor as he is, Davies every game from now on in and possibly the walking fcuking crock that is the over rated Delph if he can go two hours without getting injured.
138 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:03:49
139 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:06:39
Ferguson could see that, as a short term fix, playing long from the back brought us results by cutting out an ineffectual midfield.
140 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:08:23
141 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:08:53
Ancellotti must have been given assurances by the board regarding players irrespective of announcing record losses. Maybe he has to sell to buy in January and rebuild on the summer. League status is paramount until Ancellotti builds his squad.
142 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:16:05
Playing out from the back? Really?
143 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:16:24
144 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:18:05
Unsworth generally doesnt get academy players until theyre 18 so to lay all the blame on him is harsh...
In any case, 3 of our best performers recently have been Holgate, Davies and Calvert-Lewin, who all had significant spells under Unsworth, whilst we have Kenny playing well in Germany and 2 lads who have recently left playing extremely well in a (albeit struggling) championship side (Williams and Robinson).
We had a talented group of kids a few years ago, (Kenny, Robinson, Holgate, Connolly, Davies, Williams, Dowell, Lookman, DCL)Most of whom didnt get a chance, their progress suffered as a result.
Maybe the issue isnt Unsworth himself, but how aligned the academy sides are to the first team and the progression from U23 level to the first team. As some have pointed out, the U23s seem to play a different way to the first team, Liverpools kids knew exactly what they were all doing.
145 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:22:31
146 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:23:24
Carlo will be in shock at what's he's come to. I don't want him to walk in the summer but it's not out of the question.
147 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:28:32
148 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:28:35
If wed played that game yesterday like we played Chelsea under Dunc wed have won it 4-1 because their kids would have struggled defensively.
We are bad enough to go down and looking at the league table we are far from safe so I cant look up after that performance yesterday, much more like that and well be right back in the bottom four.
149 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:35:14
Are you a kopite taking the piss. 10 league titles and 6 European cups behind them you say.
What might happen if you could please enlighten us. Focus on us and not them. Jeez what do you think we are and have been doing for uncountable decades.
150 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:36:00
Jim I think that's says more about the managers than the players coming through
151 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:36:49
152 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:37:10
153 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:37:11
154 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:41:05
I actually saw smirks on the subs bench yesterday. What a wonderful bunch of chaps we have representing Everton Football Club.
Not one can be trusted to stand up and be counted so it will never change until all of them are gone.
This has been coming for 20+years because of a lack of due diligence on the part of owner's, staff, player's.
If you truly want this to change, vote with your feet ladies and gents, they deserve neither your loyalty and certainly not your hard earned.
Show no loyalty to these, bad apples need crushing.
The bottom of the barrel is nearly in sight, scraping the bottom is relegation. Stick with these fuckers and it will happen.
Who the fuck do they think they are, looks like they have already turned on another manager, who quite frankly was and is a different breed to these losers.
This will be his finest hour if he can turn this circus round. The look on his face was one of total bewilderment and incredulity of how crap these are as men 1st and sportsmen 2nd.
My abiding memory is of our left back having to kick a 16 Yr old to get any joy and that loser snidelin chickening out of tackles against kids, until there backs are turned, then he went straight through them. There's words for people like you mate, fucking bully.
They need hammering,to the point of desperation for this.
155 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:42:23
But no,he wouldnt.
Until finally he envagles a (football billionaire) Mug,who agrees to keep him in the forefront/chair and full time earwig.
And to those who keep saying he saved us . Yes he did.
He saved us at that period from investors who would of invested Wisely in the new prem/Sky money windfall and booted the "true blue" parasire into the Mersey.
156 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:42:56
I would be very surprised if ANY of the players even feel a tad of remorse, and don't let it affect them one iota.
They were probably all out at expensive restaurants with their WAG's tucking in to a Steak that probably cost more than the Ticket admission to Goodison per portion.
Then jumping in to their expensive cars and going home having had a good evening, and eventually having a peaceful night's sleep.
Before anyone accuses me of jealousy, no far from it, money does not mean a great deal to me, but Everton do, and being able to share that experience with a lot of genuine other Blue supporters is worth far more.
At least it was!
157 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:49:02
Fans turn on managers quickly, Martinez, Allardyce, Koeman and Silva all got dogs abuse but players get off freely.
Its now time the finger was pointed firmly at every single player at this club, young and old, they all lack the hunger and desire and passion to work hard and learn.
158 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:49:41
159 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:51:44
Liverpool are everything we are not, and they have arguably the best manager in the world with a coaching set up, scouting networks etc to back it up
Our signings have been woeful, and management and coaching of younger players equally bad.
Think of this way, if you're son was a highly gifted young football player, where would you want him to hone his talents? Everton or Liverpool?
For me, no question. Liverpool every time.
I bet the likes of Antony Gordon must have watched yesterday thinking, 'if only'
160 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:55:32
It'll be interesting to see the fans' reaction when we go to West Ham, as well.
161 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:58:00
162 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:58:17
The answer it would seem is "nothing" and that causes the tensions between friends and colleagues.
- - stop going to the match
- - stop watching them completely
- - not engage on TW with anybody
- - go to the match and Boo and scream and call individual players names (some of who deserve to be told what they have done to us and OUR Club - -but again - - frustration - - because how do we tell them)
- - change Clubs
- - hate Everton
None of these for me but I am still cursed with a brain and a Blue Heart and a Blue Soul and my frustration is growing.
Do not want to hear anything about the stadium for a while - - or EITC - - or replaceable paper cups or Operation Goodison - - just want to see changes and passion and pride somehow returned to our Club something that has been clearly missing for a long long time.
163 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:59:41
164 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:04:31
Ancelotti got the selection and tactics wrong, but he will have learned a huge amount about the shameless and cowardly senior pros that sadly we as supporters have know for a long time. No pride, no standards and no character.
I know it feels like deserting a sinking ship, but I am tempted to zone out from Everton until the start of next season. It will give Brands and Ancelotti two transfer windows to continue reshaping the squad and will save me stress and extreme irritability. Most of all, it will hopefully mean I never have to watch Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott in an Everton shirt again.
165 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:13:27
Our U23 were PL 2 Champions two years ago and are doing well again now - having had a "new" intake from lower age groups in the academy.
So, clearly, our coaching at that level is working well.
The rot starts at the senior level.
It is easy to be critical, but, having tried to address the obvious void in midfield by the permanent signing of Gomes and the signing of Gbamin in the last window, who could have envisaged that both of them would have been out of the side due to long term injuries in their fist full season with us?
They were scheduled to be the new "engine room" for the side, and we lost them both.
Delph, I grant you, I can't understand as he was injury prone to start with - but was surely meant to be just a back up, used very occasionally.
So, the pairing of Siggy and Schneids at CM should never have been - but it was forced on us by circumstances and the result is there for all to see.
That is not bad management - its damned bad luck.
Hopefully, with the advent of our new manager, our luck will also change - it needs to.
166 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:16:12
167 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:16:47
And Delph is falling well short of the expectations we had for him, injury prone, and when fit, not all that effective.
Hopefully we'll be rid of all 3.
However I disagree with some people's assertion that we need a 'big, mean bastard' in the middle. I understand such shouts, but the days of your Vinny Jones' is long gone.
What we need is Gana. He is the only player we've had who can press like the best of them, his speed, energy, work rate and intelligence was incredible. And since he has gone, our midfield has wilted. I can't remember a single game where our midfield 'won the battle' and controlled a game.
So we don't need a mean bastard to scare the opposing midfield and rally our troops, we need a real midifeld warrior.
In Gana we had, and lost, and for.such a small fee too which is sickening. But until we resolve this glaring weaknesses, were done for.
168 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:19:07
While on the subject of absenteeism your mate Kevin Tully, has seemed to do a Houdini too. Surely we can't go any lower, well we can, but that's unthinkable, but like George McKane says many of us still have Blue Hearts, and even if the players can't or won't, we will survive!
169 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:23:42
The more time goes on the more I suspect that Unsworth may be targeting the former more than the latter.
The notable thing about the RS kids is that they all were able to play immediately withing their philosophy, high pressing, high intensity etc. When Klopp arrived he installed a unity of purpose and style throughout the club so that all the youth teams play in the same style as the senior teams.
I'm pretty sure that still does not happen at Everton. The U23s were playing a different style and formation to Silva's 4231 very frequently. Of course it's difficult to match identity when there is no clear one!
Also Unsworth was and is playing older players like Charsley who have no future at the club and thus blocking time for younger players. Perhaps putting results for the team (and him as manager) above the development of players for the first team. I don't know many of the ins and outs but have read some pieces by people who are more in the picture and allude to some differences between Brands and Unsworth over these matters.
One thing I do know is that there have been very few players over the last 3 years who have come from the academy to play regular games for the first team. The last batch was Dowell, Kenny and Davies and they moved up around 3 years ago.
170 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:26:09
They then lost possession or passed to a player already pinned back and that is when players who are low on confidence panic and their first touch deserts them.
To me we should have gone with five in midfield- the game was crying out for Tom Davies to come on and put himself about. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin were completely lost, their lads ran them ragged and it was the absence of any support for the defence in the second half which led to such a poor display ie. we did not have a midfield.
Sidibe is a strange player- looks good in some games but he has no consistency and we must not sign him. We need Kenny back if his loan allows it this season. Digne looks ill at ease and Baines will surely come in for Brighton.
The most disturbing aspect of yesterday was the lack of any rallying on the pitch. As someone else has posted Reid/ Ball/ Ratcliffe would have had team mates by the throat if they were performing like that in a derby match but from what I could see from the TV only Mina seemed bothered at what was going on.
Carlo will have learned a lot from the last two games. Whether he persevered with that midfield because he thought that the City game was one where we wouldnt show up well because they were so good I do wonder, but yesterday exposed the problems for all to see. Its no good blaming that performance on him or on the board of directors for Gods sake. This is down to players who failed in the basics of what is a simple game- pass,control and move- we had none of that and they had plenty. Im sure the board was as shocked as we were to see that display. Carlo had every right to expect senior players to cope with that RS team and they let him, us and the club down.
Carlos test is Brighton as he surely cannot give those senior players another chance. Anthony Gordon and his mates should train like there is no tomorrow this week and give Carlo some fresh options- maybe we have one or two young lads who can make it- theres only one way to find out!
171 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:30:32
Meanwhile Liverpool bought Minamino for £7m. Yesterday was his debut having not played for a good few weeks and I thought he looked one of the best players on the pitch. Quick, hard working, excellent touch and good vision. He's only 24 and though it's early days i'd not be the least surprised if he's worth 4 times as much in 2 years time. Plus he'll help them shift a load of shirts in Asia. That is exactly the sort of signing that a well run, canny recruitment department is making!
172 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:34:37
Enjoy your break.
173 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:36:47
What they seem totally incapable of is realizing when they SHOULDN'T fucking play it out from the back and simply dink one over the top or a diagonal ball to the front.
There were times when Mina looked as though he really didn't want to get rid up field but he'd rather put us under pressure and embarrass the fuck out of us supporters rather than lose face and get rid.
But that wasn't the main problem yesterday.
The main problem was, as they used to say in my auld fella's day "lack of moral fibre."
We'd say lack of bottle these days.
Ahh fuck it I really can't be arsed carrying on with this post. The players can't be arsed why should I?
174 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:39:42
175 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:44:35
People are talking about the confidence of the RS youngsters, If one of those golden 1st half chances had gone in they would have crumbled, like they did against the Villa. We gave them confidence, we let them grow into the game. If that scally hadnt picked out a worldy the match probably would have fizzled out to a nil-nil, what else did Pickford have to deal with?
Someone early in the thread described this as a watershed moment, thats exactly what it needs to be. Clear out the shite, let Carlo attract the talent (if theres money?) and lets completely start again. I know weve had many start again moments, but this one feels like it could be different. I live in hope and as we all know, its the hope that kills you. COYB
176 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:50:35
My other stepson, who's a Blue, [and a rugby player] says he's going to watch Sale Sharks from now on!
177 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:51:02
Liverpools teams all play the same pressing style at all levels and they have top pros to mentor and role model the young players as they transition into the first team. The senior pros at Everton are the problem.
I dont think that Unsworth can be blamed for securing two PL2 titles and not mirroring the style and formation of the first team - 4-2-3-1 and ten tons of shit across four managers is probably a benchmark he wisely chose to ignore. We probably have been too sentimental about certain young players, but that mentality seeps through the entire club. Unsworrh has done well in getting DCL, Davies, Kenny and Holgate in and around first team football. They then struggle to make the same impact as Liverpools youngsters do as they are surrounded by garbage senior pros when they get there.
178 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:52:18
Like Li Tie or Wi Fang?
Does that put us 20 years ahead of them marketing wise?
Like Ferguson at Utd. Wenger at Arsenal, Guardiola at City. The most important person at any club is the manager.
We have undoubtedly a top manager. Moshiri has to back him to the hilt, fair play or no fair play otherwise we may as well have appointed Dyche or Howe.
179 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:52:53
We were outclassed and out fought by a group of kids, however, yesterday may provide a silver lining as it will waken Carlo up to the task that he faces and the need for some additions between now and the end of the month.
Zaha, in the summer, and Moyes, a couple of weeks ago, were lucky in the extreme not to find there way to Finch Farm.
The hard work now begins and for those who think the season is over well you can think again, there is at least 1 team in the bottom 3 capable of catching us between now and the end of the season.
180 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:53:47
181 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:02:01
Nothing wrong with passing out from the back if you have midfielders that make themselves available. Davies would have done that more than who was out there. That was Carlo's mistake.
In the first half we did better when we played it long. Klopp sussed that out and in the second half they pressed us right back. And we let them. We gave up.
Their average age was 22, ours was 26. That game was a great advert for their academy, mentality, recruitment and joined-up thinking from youth to senior. It was a damning indictment of ours.
182 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:13:14
I spent all night tossing and turning, running that pathetic second half performance through my head again and again. The last time I felt as low as this was when we got beat by Shrewsbury. It's not so much the result that's the killer, it's not even the fact that we got beat by the RS. It's the fact that it was their Fucking kids. The record books will only say Liverpool 1 - 0 Everton but we will forever have it rammed down our throats it was "Their Kids". That's why I feared the worst when I heard their team before the match.
Jim Bennings, you say this lot will get Ancelotti the sack. Not going to argue with you over this, as I think this lot could get father Christmas the sack! I've said since Ancelotti was appointed, that if he can't revive the club, then nobody can. One of the most respected managers in world football, and his team turn in a performance like that. I'm not going to go on about the way the team lined up, or the players that were selected, that's been done to death everywhere on this thread, but I'm sure Carlo already knows he made "one or two mistakes" yesterday, and will rectify it this coming weekend.
It will need an astronomical turnover of playing personnel so that Ancelotti can bring his own players in, but this could take years, and this is something no premier league club gives their manager, TIME!! I hope to God that Ancelotti is not here for his one final big payday, and his heart will truly be in the club. Given time, I do believe he can turn things around. This, without doubt, is probably his biggest challenge ever. Everywhere he's gone, he's gone in with an established team already there.
Right now, I could probably understand people who say "I've had enough, I'm not going ever again" As much as the frustration, anger, and whatever other adjective you can think of, it will never get the better of me. I will still be there on Saturday, and at West Ham the following week.
EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB IS "IN MY HEART AND IN MY SOUL" and will be until my time on this planet is up.
183 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:14:18
Mind you, none of that absolves our players for failing to turn up in the second half. And it doesn't detract from the fact that it was one of my lowest moments as an Evertonian.
184 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:15:52
185 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:17:34
186 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:19:18
187 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:27:28
That last hour it was all laid out to see. We have a non-team, full of strangers who are forced to play together. Less fight, Less desire, Less teamwork, Less understanding, Less camaraderie and no-one to take responsibility.
Carlo's only been here 2 seconds, but he will have to do more than tweak this squad,it's mentality and our training techniques.
He needs to drive a water canon into Finch Farm, turn the squirter on to max. and hose the whole rancid setup into the nearest sewer.
It's time for a clean slate and new beginning.
188 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:40:20
189 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:41:56
190 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:43:18
Quite why Ancelotti has seen fit to bring back short goal kicks puzzles me. Duncan had dispensed with those in the knowledge that the players were incapable of making it work. Yesterday it played to our weaknesses and the oppositions strengths. Why do that?
If any good is to come of yesterdays result, the club must start planning a revolution in terms of style, personnel and performance levels. That will not happen overnight. The immediate priority must be to secure the five wins required to guarantee safety.
The sooner he can do that the sooner Ancelotti can start testing what he has available in the under 23s and under 18s. Along with that must come a radical change in playing style which can only be brought about by bringing in younger players with the energy, sprinting speed, stamina and team ethos which we saw in abundance from the opposition yesterday.
191 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:45:36
I hear about how wonderful the supporters are of a lot of clubs via the media, well let me tell them that none can compare with our young supporters. They turn up in their droves at home and away games and get behind whichever team is put on the park, yet they are constantly let down. But unlike the players they don't throw their hand in, and are there week in week out despite knowing the chances of winning anything is slim.
I am still in shock over what happened yesterday, but like many of us I will be there on Saturday, because good or bad Everton is our club. As I say to my friends who support the other lot, its very easy to support a club that has won as much as they have, but it takes a really special fan to support their team who constantly under perform, which are fans do . So this morning might be as low as we have felt maybe ever, remember we might have had awful players and have had awful managers, but we have the most loyal bunch of supporters anywhere in the world.
I am mightily proud of everyone of them, I wish I could promise them things will get better, but what I do know is that they will always be there in their thousands whatever a shambles of a football team we have to support.
192 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:48:25
Trouble is the manager has only been here a few weeks.
Some think thats his excuse, Im more worried that hes the biggest mistake of all.
193 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:48:32
Apart from high-quality attire and an interesting eyebrow, I don't see what Ancellotti has brought so far - two lucky wins against shit teams and two absolutely pathetic performances to follow.
Yet another crap and depressing season with the added insult this time of watching the RS stroll the league title.
I'm just glad I wasn't there yesterday and relieved I don't live in Liverpool anymore - it must be fucking horrendous for blues.
194 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:51:10
Both I may add on inflated fees for what they were actually worth, and both subsequently, apart from the odd goal, or half a decent performance, failed to repeat it since.
Okay, not either player's fault, but Lardiola is not off the hook in any way shape or form for his part, in the financial miasma that has pervaded our Club.
Plus he managed to walk away with yet another Lottery win in Compensation- Unbelievable Geoff!
Not to mention the dire Football under his tutelage, but even his style was possibly surpassed yesterday, and I don't wholly blame Ancelotti, although his hands were tied to a degree with availability, I do think Tom Davies over Schneiderlin would have been a slightly better option.
Maybe that was part of Carlo's plan, let's expose these under-achievers so Moshiri and Brands can see how poor they are, and a decent foray into the Market is a MUST, regardless of FFP if survival is to be guaranteed!
195 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:52:58
196 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:59:01
197 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:59:47
Why can we not get a full 90 min performance from any of our players? They all seem to drift in and drift out of games. Never focused [or fit enough?] to have a full on performance for the full 95 mins.
It's like we have a subservient mindset and rather than turn the screw and take the game to the opposition we have players who sit back and react to the opposition, rather than take control and fight for that control. This trait has been going on for years.
198 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:03:15
199 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:03:29
200 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:08:08
If Labone hadn't gone off injured in 1971.
If Clive Thomas hadn't been inept in 1977
If Neville hadn't bust his ankle on the cow field in Dublin
If Heysel hadn't happened.
If Hutchisons "goal" had stood.
Sorry but if equates with luck and, if I am quoting correctly, it was Arnold Palmer who said that the harder he worked the luckier he got.
201 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:12:09
202 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:13:15
What the hell happened cannot be described and the reactions speak for themselves.
Everton in truth are a bunch of slowpokes who were outran by a team of youngsters determined to show Klopp that they too deserve to be wearing a first team shirt.
Even when the most experienced player was off due to injury Klopp didn't hesitate to bring in a youngster.
One could understand the grin on Klopp's face when being interviewed. He had engineered the most famous of Anfield derby victories with basically a team of schoolboys.
We know what needs to be done and it needs to be done fast because this debacle won't be forgotten soon.
203 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:16:27
Like someone mentioned earlier on in this thread, we have the best set of fans anywhere in the World. I think it's about time our loyalty was repaid with some joined up and entertaining Football. Oh and results too!
204 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:23:16
Straight away the defence is put under immense pressure, and yesterday we gave the ball away a couple of times as a result. My philosophy is "if the ball is seventy or eighty yards away from your goal then the opposition can't score". Defenders are there to defend, not fanny around in your own penalty box. Let your midfielders and forwards try all the fancy stuff, but FFS do away with these short goal kicks.
205 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:33:57
We are short of top players, its always been the problem for the last twenty years.
What are we going to do sack Ancelotti when he fails, because he will if Moshiri/ club don't buy him better players.
206 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:38:12
207 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:43:43
208 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:51:56
We have been conditioned to accept mediocrity, and have lost sight of a what good player actually looks like. We think because someone has the odd good game they're great. They're not. Coleman is at the end of his career so I can forgive him. Holgate and Digne are crap. Accept it and replace them. Obviously our midfield "SAS" should never play again, and neither should Walcott. Overpaid and completely past it. Delph looks an awful signing too.
There are Championship players that can perform better than these clowns. It's the most gutless bunch of players I've ever witnessed at Everton. They are a disgrace.
209 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:02:15
We prayed for a saviour,got one in Moshiri and four years later of hell where are we.
Moshiri must take a huge amount of respondibility.
But hes done something about it.
Four managers, £50 million in compensation and salaries.
Thank God for Duncan Fergerson to show the lot what having a passion for a club is all about.
Sidiebi might didnt have game time,new to the league but my god he puts a shift in,quality at times to.I ll live with the mistakes for now.
Two weeks Carletti has been in.Hes made his mind up.
Tosun, out,Gylfy out,a few more not in his plans.
He knows what he wants.
Never in his career has he commented on his players after the game.
He did last night,so a good few are done at Everton.
They played how he told them for 45 mins and should have bern up 3-1, 3-0 halftime.
They had a style,a plan.
Came out second half,decided to play the way they wanted.
Thats the sack if you play for Carlo Ancelotti.
As a pro, your paid to play a certain way as a player,do ya bit in a system.
If you cant do that first,ya gone.
But he needs 6 wins or 18 points, first and foremost.
Home wins,pick up some points away.
Clear the whole squad out,Pickford included maybe if he can get £70million for him.
I think we have to leave it to him.
He will want to challenge for evetything next season so watch this space.
Anything is possible.
Moise Keane???Its down to Carlo, if he can get him performing,same with Richarlison.Consistant shifts or sell.
Just have to leave it to Carlo now.Its his job to do it,hell be sacked,or get a statue.
210 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:02:37
Loads were smitten over Brands before he done or won anything here. Now they feel daft. I didn't even see one person mention whether or not its harder to buy players for the here than in Holland.
Not even that little hint of concern, just pure trust by an already failed regime.
I was the mad one for asking them questions.
Its mad how we have to get beat by the Red shite before everyone notices our players are shite.
Siggurdson has apologised in The Mirror today. Sound mate all is forgiven you useless water carrying wimp excuse for a footballer.
211 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:05:45
212 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:11:33
The profligacy in the transfer market doesn't bear thinking about. We've spent comparable amounts on Davy Klaasen and Michael Keane than the RS spent on Salah and Mane. We were better when we had no money.
Is there a club where the mood swings as much though as Everton? After the 5-2 thrashing we were all down and out. Big Dunc got us believing again and gave us some pride back. The planning permission for BMD got submitted, we got Ancelotti and were being linked with the likes of Ibrahimovic. Then we hear that Usmanov is interested in investing further. All looks rosy. Then we put in the most abject performance against them that I can remember and there have been many to choose from. Bloody Everton!
213 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:19:48
Reported recently: £80 million for Richarlison and £50 million for Pickford. Get rid of both and offset the losses we would make on the rest. Not one of that team deserves to wear the Everton shirt again.
We obviously know that they will. But I hope to god not many of the shite we have at our club today will be there by the end of the 2020 summer transfer window. That's got to be the most expensive, talentless and spineless squad the Premier League has ever seen... They are that bad.
214 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:24:37
the key point for me about yesterday was the performance of Sigurdsson. Ask yourself this question, 'would you put Gylfi in a two man midfield in a derby?'
no way, it's not his game, not even close to his game. He is a Bilyaletdinov, a fragile skillful player who given the right circumstances, can make killer passes. He absolutely is not a combative assertive midfielder (and maybe Carlo just didn't realise the very particular sort of player he was). and because of this, his technique of playing out from the back was doomed, cos Gylfi didn't feel confident enough to come and demand the ball from his defence. Also, Morgan for most of the game yesterday probably felt he did what he was asked to do, which is to mop up, and close down attacks. We weren't put under the cosh much in our final third, cos most of the game was played in the centre, and we just couldn't get the ball, cos we just didn't have the personnel.
So, it's on Carlo, but hells bells he's only just got here. Let's stuff the shit out of Brighton, get a couple in, and give them a game in a couple of months when the gobshites come back.
215 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:32:35
I'm still in shock at the abysmal second half and Ancelotti's failure to change things when we were being overrun.
I've seen every Derby since they were promoted, and many drubbings, but yesterday was a new low. No radio or TV on in our house; my only communication with the outside world is on here with fellow Blues and the occasional glance at the Everton FC website just in case we sign someone!
I really feel for those having to go into work and cope with gloating armchair RS; yesterday's journey home on the bus and train was bad enough. I was so embarrassed I just kept my mouth shut.
Like many others I've thought long and hard about why I bother, after so many kicks in the teeth, but players and managers come and go but once a Blue always a Blue. (I'm not religious but I'm starting to think I must have done something really dreadful in a previous life!)
Ancelotti has a clear week to try to instill some organisation into this rabble. Like others I'll be there on Saturday and at West Ham the following week.
Next week's AGM should be interesting!
216 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:34:06
You know when you were stood with one of the lads who had a ball at their feet and said to you, watch this, because hes about to aim for a certain place with the ball. Thats Sigurdsson.
Unless Richarlison has no time on the ball hes near the same. A 12 year old Centre Half could read their aim.
217 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:36:38
It is clear in every game that you need physicality like Sissoko or industry and speed like Winks. Erikson is similar to Sigurdsson but younger and with more pace.
Delph is not as quick as he was and like Drinkwater(who couldn't get in the team at Burnley) these guys are past it.
We need quick althletic types who can go box to box.
Davies, Delph, Schnides,and Siggy are all too slow.
The midfield is where we lost that game.
218 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:54:18
Pickford (best of a bad bunch)
Sidibe (best of a bad bunch)
Baines (Digne should read dire)
Davies (for the sheer fact I never want to see MS or GS again)
Delph (if he hasn't farted and ruptured his rectum or something)
Gordon (off the striker, somethign needs to change)
DCL (best of a bad bunch)
In an ideal world, I wouldn't have around six of that team starting, I particularly don't rate Delph.
Sad thing is look at the other possible candidates, Steklenburg, Keane, Niasse, Schneiderlein to name a few.
The squad reeks.
219 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:56:17
I believe the side is hampered by it's midfield. This is the key part of any side and our central midfield are expensive Steve Walsh / Ronald Koeman mistakes. There was only 4 Brands players in the starting lineup and it seems to me to be a recurring theme that when we rely on the team Brands inherited we seem to struggle. Not that Digne, Sidibe, Richarlison or Mina were standout performers in a poor display.
We need to sign Rabiot or someone like him. Doucouré would help as well. Delph (brands signing) came on the pitch and looked out of place, casually playing side-ways Man City style passes when the clock was ticking to the game's conclusion and more urgency was needed.
We should have thumped that Liverpool side, we went out and played the shirt, not the players. And that was disgraceful. I'm still a fan of Silva, and I think this performance highlights that our problems were much more than of his making. However, if Silva was in charge, you could expect token signings in January, not much to change. Ancelotti is different. He looked livid on the sidelines, and I expect that he will have been straight on the phone to Moshiri and demanded major signings.
220 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:00:21
Warnings about the possibility of terminal decline abounded but lunatics had taken over the asylum as the grotesque indignity of an Everton manager dictating terms for his exit rather than having his locker cleared played out.
When Goodison applauded the shenanigans I realised the club I had supported since the early 60s had gone.
221 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:02:12
222 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:03:11
The midfield is terrible. The problem is theyre all midway through massive contracts with no sell on value.
223 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:07:24
They chose to let a bunch of young inexperienced lads embarrass them in front of thousands of their own fans and live on national TV. Those players wearing blue were a disgrace yesterday, a total disgrace.
They should sacrifice a months wages and apologise for their attitude, lack of effort and ineptitude. They wont, because they dont care and their attitudes stink.
We have a bungling owner who knows sod all about football who has appointed Brands to Board level and asks Brands whats the problem, have we got decent players or is it down to our coach? The guy in charge of player recruitment blames the coach. Surprise surprise.
Our club is sick from top to bottom. Vested self interest of Brands, players and agents taking advantage of Moshiris football incompetence.
Ancelotti must be wondering what on earth has he walked into. Wouldnt surprise me at all if he left on his own accord, no compo but reputation still intact so he can work at a proper club.
224 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:08:05
As I understood things Stekelenburg was due to move out somewhere as a GK Coach. We then got Jonas Lossl from Huddersfield on a free but, he was remunerated handsomely with a wage increase.
Since then, I have rarely seen Lossl on the bench even, Stek being preferred as back up on the bench. Is Lossl injured? Or what?
They have announced record losses recently, no wonder, when they are blowing money right left and centre!
225 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:13:32
226 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:15:17
227 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:18:18
228 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:19:34
"If you want to be a Liverpool player, you have to respect the principles of this club. We cannot always play the best football in the world but we can fight like nobody else. And as long as we use our principles, we will be a difficult opponent to play against."
229 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:20:35
Stekelenburg is out of contract in the summer, Derek. There was rumours he would be sold so he could take up a player coach role. It would not surprise me that he is to become a goalkeeper coach at Everton. The guy has seen it all and done it all, not least he played in the World Cup final in 2010. We've retained Alan Kelly for now.
Remember, Alan Kelly was brought in to be Everton's temporary coach when Unsworth had a run at the first team. Unsworth then took him into the u23 setup when he lost the job to Allardyce who immediately brought his own guy in. Ferguson then took him on after Hugo Oliveira was booted out with Silva. Hugo being a highly rated keeper coach who worked with Ederson (of Man City) at Benfica and was instrumental in persuading Portgual's u18 European cup winning goalkeeper (Joao Virginia) to move here from Arsenal.
I've no idea how good Kelly is, but the fact that Unsworth took him on as he was out of work and could come in at short notice, hardly fills you with confidence. If he's not up to it, maybe Stek is in line for a coaching role here?
As for Lossl, he's fallen out of favour with Silva's departure. He's not injured. Stek is clearly fancied by Ferguson and maybe he's persuaded Ancelotti that he is better than Lossl? Don't forget that whilst we might think of Stekelenburg as being about 45, he is only 37, so not too old for a keeper. Southall, Martyn and Howard were all in goal for us at the same age.
230 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:21:14
231 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:23:13
Right sport on the quote. But it was Gary Player.
Now he was a competitor. Wonder if he's busy between now and May. I know he's in his eighties now but some of that shower yesterday played as if they were too.
232 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:26:35
When Klopp first came to Anfield, he got rid of Sturridge. One of the three SSS strikers who almost won Liverpool the league. He saw that Sturridge was not suited to the pressing game he needed to play. Similarly Guardiola got rid of England's keeper, Joe Hart, because he could not play as keeper/sweeper and brought in his man. He threatened the best striker in the Premier League with being dropped if he didn't buy into his pressing style. Such managers and Ancelotti is one of them know exactly what they want to do. Klopp and Guardiola had to make two or three adjustments to their squad to get what they needed. Ancelotti needs a minimum of eleven changes. I'm not sure these managers are ideal for poorer teams with very finite resources.
Silva and Martinez both had an ideal, they hadn't the players for their style and were clueless what to do then.
There are also that breed of British managers (Moyes, Allardyce, Pulis, Dyche, Warnock etc.) who are pragmatic utilitarians and start each game with one point and hope to keep that point and possibly sneak a goal to get three points.
I'm with Tony Marsh, I'd have kept Ferguson till the end of the season. I think Ancelotti faces the biggest challenge of his career if he is to turn Everton into a top six team during his period of contract. I'm not sure he can do it, I don't think Guadiola or Klopp could do it either.
We could be building a 50,000 plus stadium for a team that will never fill it. This is the worst I've felt about Everton since I started supporting them 66 years ago.
233 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:26:57
We need to ditch this playing out from the back with one striker up front rubbish which all foreign managers seem obsessed with. We should be playing around the opposition's box, not our own, and getting the ball in quickly for two strikers to contest. Back to basics, as Duncan did, is all that will work with this squad.
234 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:29:06
235 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:30:12
Hopefully Don Carlo will be a great manager for us. I just wish we could have kept him on ice til the summer and continued with Don Duncan in the interim. I think the big fella would have had a few choice words to say after the game. Theo Walcott for one would have gone home with a dead pigeon up his arse.
236 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:38:51
Carlo said he's basically had no time training due to the quick turnaround in games. I doubt he's watched tonnes of our games the last few years. So he probably (wrongly) assumed with England's number 1, two French internationals, a star CB from the world cup and the Irish captain that it would be safe to assume they had the requisite skills to play out from the back. Now he knows.
237 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:45:00
Now that Carlo is here, I am behind him. I do think it's good to have his experience and tough skin. I imagine it will be an exasperating six months for him though until maybe we have more cash to spare next summer.
238 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:45:47
239 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:46:16
This is the lowest point in the club's history in my lifetime. When Everton hit rock bottom, they pull out the sticks of dynamite and try to tunnel deeper. We didn't lose to Liverpool Reserves — it was the kids the 3rd string — and Ancelotti presided over it, Marco Silva fashion.
There are no positives for our fans any more. Each season deals another crushing blow more devastating than the previous crushing blow. I got slated on here 2 years ago for stating Pickford was useless and he is useless. The rest of them even worse. I can already see the flaws in Ancelotti. I can see the gormless expression that Silva had when thinking "Why isn't the Gylfi and Morgan routine working?"
Ancelotti fucked up massively but we should never've appointed him. For me, Carlo is on the same route down as Mourinho. Once brilliant... but 10 years past their prime. More money wasted on a mercenary. What was wrong with Big Dunc, FFS??
240 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:52:14
241 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:55:05
242 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:59:18
I fear the job Ancelotti has on his hands is too big as I believe Everton are like Newcastle these days and are just too far gone to ever be a major player in this league again,christ,we have been to one cup final in 25 years,even Portsmouth have been to two this century.
243 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:00:26
244 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:02:43
245 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:06:25
But enough about the managers, Everton's players were also garbage.
246 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:11:44
As for Ancelotti, no, he has not either. You only need to watch him on the sidelines going mad when we have the ball to see this. It's not FIFA on the playstation. He does not control the players. He may give them instructions, but they do what they want when they cross the white line.
The problem Silva faced is too many of them are untouchable. Namely Gylfi Sigurdsson. We cannot afford to put a player like him in our reserves and let him pick up around £130,000 per week without playing. He also needs to play to help us try to move him on. What made it worse last season is he had a habit of doing nothing for 80 minutes and doing enough in 10 minutes to make himself look great on Match of the Day. Often scoring crucial goals, and being joint top scorer with 14. This season the 10 minute flash has become a minute or so.
Ancelotti is a strong enough character that he won't take any shit. He can just put Sigurdsson in reserves and let him rot. Whereas Moshiri might have been on the phone to Silva and demanding he play or take better care of his £50m investment, it'll be the other way round with Ancelotti who should be demanding a better player for the money spent.
In summary, Carlo Ancelotti was not instructing them to play it out from the back. That's a hangover from Silva's tactics, but the constant fannying about going side to side is on the players and their lack of ideas, confidence and willingness to take responsibility.
247 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:16:53
Likewise, on a few other threads, I've seen a few comments along the lines of, when things are going good these players are great and have potential. Conversely, the argument goes, when things go bad the Negative Nancy's come out, and the players are all shite.
This got me thinking, who is actually good, and who is actually poor? Who should we discard and who, finances, age, and all of it being a factor, should we keep / who is "good"?
Pickford - Keep him. Great shot stopper. Nutter, but you can't have everything.
Coleman - Keep. Consumate veteran leadership.
Keane - keep if only to defend, discard if any future has us playing a high line, and we shouldn't be playing a high line, so offload.
Mina - Keep
Digne - Keep
Schneiderlin - Terrible offload ASAP
Delph - Too injury prone, offload
Davies - Keep
Sigurdsson - Past his prime, offload
Bernard - Keep
Iwobe - Keep
Richarlison - Keep. The one player with some real talent.
Walcott - Past his prime, offload
DCL - Keep
Kean - Keep
That's 16 players listed (did I miss anyone??). The rest are offload sans Gbamin and Gomes, they're Keep status.
Basically, for me, we are where we were, at the beginning of last summer's transfer window. We need to dump a lot of players out of Everton.
Once we do that, Carlo, through Marcel, can bring in 2-3 impact signings, and I think our fortunes will change.
CB, two central midfielders, and a striker. The rest will improve around quality, and under Carlo's watchful raised brow.
And this needs to be done quickly. We just splunked how many millions to sign Carlo? We need to bite the bullet and offload dead weight at a loss if need be. Schneids, Siggy, Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, etc. They have to be cleared off the books. We need to cut the cord from the last 4 years for Carlo to move forward.
248 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:19:26
I spent a bit of time over New Year putting together a TW piece basically on my disappointment that Moshiri has allowed the organisational culture he inherited to continue. Knowing that this would elicit righteous indignation from the Terrys and those who brook no criticism of the way the club as a business operates, and also to avoid the usual charge that criticism only appears when were losing I decided to wait for a good win before submitting it.
When I realised a few days before that Klopp was going to field his B team I thought ok this is a good time, the morning after a derby win at the dark side. How wrong I was in that assumption! The article will have to wait for a while, methinks.
It does irritate me though that if someone like me could see what Klopp intended why did we need to select two right backs, for example? I know we have injuries but surely this was a time for a bolder, attacking team and set-up. I could highlight other poor selections but this one stood out for me, especially when, against a team of hungry, skilful young players, our best right back is playing in the Bundesliga.
249 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:20:00
250 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:26:13
If Ancelotti was that way inclined he would spew the whole team.
Sad thing about last night is none of the kids for Liverpool are making it in the premiership either.
251 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:27:19
252 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:33:30
The defenders continued to try to play from the back but the RS high press didn't allow that. Along with the SAS gping missing, they'd nowhere to go except long.
We needed to adapt and change to 442 immediately and aim the diagonal balls at DCL for knockdowns. That wouldve forced LPL back and put pressure on their young defender.
Football is a simple game, but we make it look so hard.
253 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:44:22
So much of the Brands era has been defined by the fact that he is clearing up Walsh's mess. We cannot offload Sigurdsson or Schneiderlin. No one will buy them and take on their immense wages. We're stuck with them. This has been the biggest problem of the Brands era. Being stuck with players they don't want, because of inflated wages, and being forced to balance the books.
Contrast that with the Walsh era and the spend, spend, spend approach. Want a number 10? let's buy 3 of them! Brands cannot be judged until he can get the handcuffs off that he has had placed on him by the financial restrictions caused by Walsh's recklessness.
Dunno, if I would have signed all the players that Brands signed, but most of them are good players, and most of them were for less than the amounts Walsh was pouring down the drain. Delph being the only one I thought was a poor signing.
Ultimately though, I still think Brands' inability to sign a Zouma replacement was a massive reason that Silva's Everton lost so many games. So, he is not above major criticism from me.
254 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:44:38
255 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:46:41
I remember the Moyes team that came 4th getting carved open by a much better Arsenal team of kids, in a league cup-tie at Highbury, and although you could see that natural talent was ingrained in quite a few of them, maybe you are right about those Liverpool kids because history hasnt been kind to those Arsenal youngsters who gave a much stronger Everton team, a massive football lesson that night.
I think the saddest thing about yesterday is that it will happen again, unless everything about our recruitment is restructured?
256 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:55:26
They should show a video of that game to all levels of our coaching staff. I certainly like to know what they do at Finch Farm.
257 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:59:06
And Tony @255, I was in Highbury that night, Tommy Grav scored. Where are any of that Arsenal team now? Probably playing on Hackney Marshes.
258 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:01:12
That leaves Richarlison and Gomes as successful signings.
The jury's still out on Brands for me.
259 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:03:19
The biggest problem with the players we have is their mentality. We have too many “confidence” players.
Almost the same team managed great results against big teams in the back half of last season when things were going well. I dont doubt our players are all technically gifted professionals who can compete with the best on their day. I just see no fight or passion from these players and its so frustrating to watch!
For me the biggest failure in signing players has been the total disregard for the players character. For all of his flaws (and I believe there were many) Moyes signed players that would fight for our club, players who were proud to put the shirt on.
Going forward, we should be looking to sign players who want to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and influence it! We need players who play with passion and determination who hate losing. Most of the players didnt even seem bothered when we lose.
260 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:04:31
He was good against Leicester, but hes never anything less than good with the ball at his feet, which is presumably why Ancelotti played Schniederlin over Davies, because he thinks Tom gives it away too much?
Our players are mentally week, our players who are used to playing one game a week, have now played 9 matches in 34 days without very little rotation, but this is not an excuse because Im sure if that game had been at Goodison, Everton would have won quite easily, which shows me were we are lacking the most, and this wont change until certain players are banished forever.
261 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:05:44
262 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:05:50
I'd agree and would also suggest a very decent replacement for Walcott's position. I'd suggest that a good, new striker needs good delivery from out wide as well as from midfield.
Just two or three (preferably four) really good signings could make a massive change to this team.
263 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:09:28
I'd say the £130k / week is a sunk cost. If there is somebody better to put in his place, then we should do it, for the better. Emphasis on IF!
264 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:11:44
We might literally have to pay someone to take them on?!
Sandro, Niasse, Martina wouldnt get in a League 2 team but are in massive wages!
Siggy and Sneiderlinn are on 6 figures a week! They cost over £65m. They are both about 30! We couldnt give them away!
Walcott has a name that might attract China or the US but would he go there ? £5m tops!!
Tosun might attract teams in Turkey but on his wages wed have to pay him to go!
Id send Sidebe back straight away and get JJK back in!
Personally Id keep Digne, Richarlison, Gomes, Mina but they are the only ones who might get money for!
265 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:15:25
I read the Sig sale rumor in a few tabloids. It makes sense that Carlo would want to sell him. However, who would buy him? 31 y/o on 100k plus a week, midway through a 5 year contract. So he's due another 12 million at least in wages from Everton. Presumably, Everton would want some kind of fee. Even if we sold him for 20 percent of what we paid, then a club is looking at 20 million plus just to cover wages we already would owe the guy and a "nominal" fee. Who could afford that who would actually want Sig? I am thinking he could do a job of sorts at say Rangers, an MLS team, maybe a weaker CL team. But none of them have that kind of dosh.
266 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:20:17
267 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:21:38
All credit to the young lads who represented Liverpool, with my added emphasis on “represented”. Those lads could have played very few competitive games together, if any at all as that eleven. They perhaps illustrated many features of what is sadly missing at EFC at present and for quite some time now.
First responsibility must surely rest on the shoulders of those responsible for the shambolic appointments of so many managers in recent years. Mr Klopp and his team have overseen a consistent, steady approach to team development over the past four years or so while at Everton there has been no consistent development whatsoever. One manager succeeding another, each buying players with short term objectives in mind ie keeping my job etc. Where on earth has been the due diligence to these appointments with the longer term strategy in mind?
Then the purchasing or development of players without such a longer vision in place, bought by the short term “objectives” of each successive manager means absolutely no progression whatsoever. Then to pay these players, the majority of whom are appallingly mediocre, the obscene salaries they seem to be on with no apparent targets that they are required to achieve means that they bask in their equally obscene soporific life styles.
I think it is the first time that I have no affinity with the team players who take to the pitch. I say that as one who gloried at the feet of Dave Hickson, Bobby Collins, Tommy Ring (however brief), Alex Parker, the 1963 team, the Temples Harvey Ball, Gabriel, the 70s and 80s teams etc. It is a new experience for this old guy to actually resent some of this current set whose names have been rightly identified through these pages.
In the light of that disgraceful performance if Ancelotti is serious about seeing out his contract and building something that is testimony to his managerial skills then he should insist on the paying off the rest of the contracts of some of these players as soon as possible. Is anybody seriously suggesting that there are no young lads capable of improving on what some of these charlatans have offered? They are responsible for halting the progress of lads such as Tom Davies as they have been no help to him as he learns his trade.
The club is in dire straits thrown into ever starker relief by the remarkable current success across the park and on this evidence likely to continue for some considerable time. It no longer hurts me as it once did during the Shankly, Paisley, Fagan eras etc so far away have we fallen. Throwing money at a problem is no answer if you do not know what the root cause of the problem is and the alarming thing is that the root cause of our problems may well lie in the very people who are tasked with solving it!
I can only apologise for going on a bit, but would like to end by apologising to all the younger fans who having been starved of watching a successful side with top players, playing for them with spirit, for this club has betrayed them.
268 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:25:08
269 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:27:05
270 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:29:25
They do not have the ability to pass out from the back when pressed, one excuse is I suppose is that Gomez and Gbamin are both out injured and it may be different with them in the team.
The simple truth is that most of our squad are not good enough to be top six players I don't care who our managers is.
Its grit your teeth till the end of the season and hope that we can sign 3 or 4 players of real quality in the summer.
271 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:36:30
272 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:38:26
273 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:39:10
274 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:45:29
I did say we couldn't afford to sack him and I don't mean in a financial way. Of course, that's not really correct, because I don't think we could afford any compensation package for Carlo and his backroom team if we are led to believe his salary of £11M is true.
275 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:45:39
276 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:47:59
I dont agree that the players were playing out from the back due to a throwback to Silvas reign. Under Ferguson we played the long game to good effect, I believe that it was Ancellotti who gave the instructions to play out that way. The players carried out Duncans plan to a tee, why would they revert to Silvas plan if they werent told to.
277 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:48:01
At such times it is so difficult to remain a staunch Blue. I have two sons and a son in law who also are experiencing the stress of being an Evertonian. They are all adults but my eldest son wondered if he could sue me for "Child Abuse " for making them Blues so many years ago, My non football wife complained by saying that I have made my sons, "As daft as you are".
To me Evertonians are probably the most loyal supporters in the world. However there are other fans of teams who remain dyed in the wool supporters in the most difficult of times. Last Saturday Sunderland were playing Lincoln City in a League 1 game. Despite the fact that they are having a lousy season they had over 31,000 at their ground.True fans can NEVER be fickle nor can they change teams or stop watching their teams even after a truly dreadful performance which we experienced on Sunday.
I hate what has happened over the last number of years but I don't have any other option than to remain a Blue. I could take up fishing. Nah. I hate fish
278 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:49:12
Digne certainly doesnt look happy this season, I spotted early on in the season at home to Wolves when Traore kept on toasting him that it rammed home my belief from last season that hes quite a mediocre defender but had (last year a good left peg).
This season hes been woeful and I dont like the attitude of him constantly throwing his arms up in the air, but my biggest annoyance is the stupid free kicks hes continuously gives away, reminds me last season at Millwall.
Baines for me is still even now a better footballer as we witnessed at Newcastle and the Leicester game too.
Leighton would have been the man for me yesterday.
I wont blame Ancelotti but he does need to accept some responsibility for yesterdays performance as he picked players that we have known for a long time to be utter shite.
279 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:54:12
280 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:56:24
Really? Exactly which games did we lose under Silva this season because the guy who actually replaced Zouma -- Yerry Mina -- let us down?
Answer: There weren't any. Maybe one or two that could be blamed at least partially on Keane, or the Keane/Mina combination. But "many" games? Sorry, that's ridiculous. And I would point out that Mina's current partner, Holgate, was always available to Silva. He wouldn't use him.
When are you going to accept that Silva simply sucked? He sucked as a strategist, sucked as a game manager, sucked as a motivator. Even accounting for all the other contributing factors you have so eagerly pointed out both before and after his departure, the simple fact is that by far the most "massive" reason for Marco Silva's failure was... Marco Silva.
281 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:59:45
We started with Walsh and Koeman and ended up with 3 number 10s the last one costing £45 million. We also signed we were led to believe the next top striker from Spain in Sandro and are still paying most of his £100,000 per week. This was also the time when we sold Deulofeu and have not replaced his goals or assists from out wide. We have never replaced Lukaku and sold the 1st or 2nd highest goalscorer in the Premier league for £75 million.
After appointing Allardyce who in his short tenure bought Walcott and Tosun for over £50 million between them. Neither good enough for a team aspiring to compete at the top end of the table. Then onto Silva and Brands and we have been told that Brands wanted to bring in a younger type player. So he buys Mina, Digne, Gomes all decent enough players, but he was also responsible in selling Gana Gueye our stand out player from last season. Who covered more ground than any other player in the Premier league but Brands decided it was good business to sell him to PSG. Then Brands decides we need a striker to help young DCL and everybody was saying yes thats what we need an experienced Centre Forward, but instead of Dzeko or Costa he spends £30 million on a 19 year old kid like Dominic and this was a kid who spoke very little English and trying to learn in one of the hardest leagues to play in. Brands also brought in Bernard to play in the front 3 you can count on 1 hand how many goals and assists he has.
So the argument about Brands being better than Walsh is irrelevant they are both superfluous, and at what cost. Ancelotti doesnt need someone like Brands to tell him what players he will buy for the team. Let Brands liaise between the youth set up and also moving on players Ancelotti doesnt want. But surely if we have learned one thing from this DOF experiment and that is in this country it doesnt work, if you employ a world class manager let him dictate what players he needs, not what a won nothing DOF suggests.
282 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:00:41
Yeah I have to agree with Joe. The players performance levels dropped hugely for that Arsenal game. It seemed like Dunc was able to muster a response for a couple of games but then they reverted to type. Bottom line is the core group of mentally weak and cowardly folks have failed to perform under Ron, Silva, Sam, Unsie, Dunc and Carlo. Sam and Dunc squeezed a bit extra out of them by absolving them of passing responsibilities and going direct. But under both Sam and Dunc they found a way to be crap towards the end even when there was zero expectation of playing good football.
283 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:02:28
284 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:03:06
285 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:05:49
Yes,Arsenal were crap and there for the taking as were the RS yesterday IF wed have taken the game to them. I worry if this is going to be Ancellottis style of play.
286 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:09:20
The fans are unlikely to voice their support, when they are subjected to that what they witnessed yesterday, they were more than anything embarrassed about the team they have supported home and away in all weathers, having produced the worst display, and against our fiercest rivals to boot.
It has to be a two-way relationship, agreed, but it should start from the players, if they put a shift in the supporters will be vocal and encourage them to the hilt.
287 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:20:30
288 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:20:36
289 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:22:04
Just over 13 months ago we went across the park, played their first team and were unlucky not to come away with a deserved 0 - 0 draw. It seems like a lifetime ago today.
290 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:24:44
291 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:29:37
292 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:30:04
293 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:36:41
294 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:36:43
Siggi says they couldn't even go over to the fans at the end because "all the players are different people and where very disappointed to lose the game the way they did" — my heart bleeds.
Well, Siggi, why don't you and most of the other fuckin' cowards go down the tunnel and keep going, you shower of shit houses.
295 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:42:03
Anthony #267, may I join you in apologising to younger Blues? I think of my own two lads and all of you Dads whove mentioned your sons and daughters; they know we did the right thing as our Dads did for us, they would not have it any other way, but they deserve better than this. Stop being Mr Nice Guy, EFC, get some leaders who dont like losing, both on the pitch and in the boardroom.
296 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:47:35
He did try to arrange a loan with an option to buy. Option.
297 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:52:25
As an earlier person commented on one of the threads, for me derby day has become a non-football day where the match is avoided and there is a cursory glance on the app/web later on in the day to check on the inevitable result. I have come to dread derby day and am glad when it's over. Luckily I don't live in Liverpool so I'm at least spared the ridicule from the RS brigade. As 4pm approached yesterday I told the wife I had some jobs to do outside and I spent nearly 2 hours in my garage tidying it up - in January. I'm a grown man approaching 60 yet this is what supporting Everton does to you. To an outside observer it might seem ridiculous behaviour but I'm sure many of you will relate to this.
You have to hand it to Klopp, playing the kids was a clever (and inevitable) psychological move because he put himself in a no-lose situation. I knew this would happen and I knew our lot of bottlers would succumb. I just don't see the hunger in most of them. Where are the players who you can see running their hearts out with energy and a hunger not to lose? Where is the Roy Keane type skipper shouting at people? It just isn't there and the fact is we have too many players who frankly are not fit to wear the shirt. To select just a few.
Walcott - has never had a real football brain and has done well in the past on some occasions just due to pace. Where is his intelligence in passing/crossing? Don't try and kid yourself, he is not a footballer.
Siggy - fat contract, not motivated enough. Always seems off the pace away from the action.
DCL - I've said it on here before, he does not have the killer instinct of a finisher. You watch his shots, often straight at the keeper. He nearly mucked up the finish at Newcastle.
Kean - I've also said it on here before, I don't think he's got it for this league. Looks too hefty in the lower abdomen and is a headless chicken.
Keane - looks like he's been psychologically damaged by playing in our defence.
Pickford - the nutty kid who's high maintenance and probably needs medication to calm him.
Richarlison - big sulk he needs a kick up the arse and told to stop falling over.
Digne - what's happened to him?
Coleman - sadly coming to end of his career (but a great servant and man of dignity).
Schneiderlin - do I need to say anything?
I could go on but you've heard it all before.
I've also questioned on here if Ancelotti is the right man to sort this mess out but I'm just going to have to cross my fingers and hope for the best. In the meantime we've got to look forward to the RS coming to Goodison and perhaps winning the title. It could just happen.
298 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:57:19
That is not to say our transfers under Brands are perfect, Iwobi particularly strikes as waste of money. Delph also has been greatly disappointing.
But Mina is a top quality centre back, Digne is a top quality left back, despite his current form, Gomes for 20 million is a good midfielder. GBamin we have no idea, and Kean is looking his age, but both can still have a future.
But the weight around our squads shoulders are Walcott, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, and to a lesser extent Keane. All signed by previous regimes, combined fee of around 140-150 million, on contacts similar to that of Liverpool's best players.
299 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:59:38
We are a club in transition, with some too-young players, some too-old players and a need for speed and dynamism, but there is talent in the lineup. We don't need to steer the river through the stables and clean everything out.
We have a world-class manager, a top (in my opinion) DOF and a committed owner who has made some mistakes but corrected them. We also, if the reports are true, have a whole lot more money coming into the club.
And it now seems much more likely than not that we will be playing in a gorgeous new stadium in a couple of seasons.
I'm as pissy about yesterday as anybody, and it's a whole lot easier for me than most of you to deal with the aftermath, since I don't live on Merseyside and didn't have to go to work with the obnoxious RS fans this morning (there isn't a Red within a hundred miles to give me stick). But the fact is, this is still a great club with great support and terrific prospects for the future, and I'm trying to use that to keep yesterday in perspective.
300 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:59:45
I think he's bought better players than his predecessor, but he doesn't buy ones that score goals, he doesn't buy the characters we're crying out for.
I hope at this transfer meeting today, Carlo makes it crystal clear what we need right now.
301 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:04:25
I feel a bit shit about forcing Everton on him, and the lad does get stick from various numptys at school, but I do tell him to just ask them to give him directions to Old Trafford or Anfield or Stamford Bridge or whoever they follow-99%of the time they don't even know which city there in! Tom has been to Goodison on dozens of occasions and as bad as its been still wants to start going again, so I may have to forget my pride and take him. What a great lad tho!
Anyways, we are watching the dvd and all various footage of games, and I'm busy telling him how good Reidy was, that Sheeds has a wand of a left foot like him, Sharpy being brilliant at holding the ball up, Inchy was technically ahead of his time etc, you could go on and on.
From the outtakes of interview's, he recognised who was who, but he kept his counsel until after it had finished and I asked him what he thought of it all. He said this, "wow, how good were Everton dad, why don't they play like that now?" So I asked him what he meant and he said, "they never let the other teams play, and just took the ball off them quickly and attacked" He also took on board what Big Nev said about the dressing room being a vicious place, "but we had to find out whether they could handle banter, if not, what use were they on the pitch to us?" he asked whether it was like that when I played which I replied yes, but that we all got on great, we just wanted to win mate. He also noted that they all got on really well, looked they were enjoying it and looked like a team. Surprisingly, he thought that the game looked much quicker and nastier than now, and likened it to the way the shite and city play now.
Interesting, especially that last bit. Football always starts with hard work and endeavour, how times have changed, sadly for the worse.
Given me fresh impetus though, amazing kids aren't they?
302 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:08:22
303 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:09:38
The call for going back to life without a Director of Football won't be heeded, Brands may or not be any use but can he be blamed for players suddenly turning to the brown stuff as soon as they don an Everton kit? The wholesale moving out of players, won't happen either, so that can be forgotten as an option.
We are where we are and it's up to the people running the club to sort out the mess. First thing they should do, is to investigate why the indivdual players are unable to do the basics with any consistency and ask them why they don't seem to function as a team. The players are capable of doing it, because we've seen them do it, not often but we have seen it.
Staying up is the only thing on the agenda today, how we do it, who helps us to do it, that doesn't matter, but do it we must.
304 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:09:57
Brent #302, I knew you'd catch the reference, being such a classic guy yourself.
305 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:27:55
306 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:27:57
Anyway, part of the film I enjoyed was the interview with Kevin Ratcliffe, following the injury to Adrian Heath. The retribution taken out on Brian Marwood for his horrendous challenge on "Inchy", not just in that game against Sheff.Wed, but also in future games for whatever team Marwood was playing for. As Rats said, we would always look after our team mates out on the pitch. How true that was, unlike today, when most of our team seem too scared to throw in a challenge and, while not intentionally hurt an opponent, at least let them know you are around. We seem more concerned by an opponent being injured and trying to help him up!
Join # 303. You always seem to do well against me in the Head to Head league we have. You don't even look at your team from one week to the next, but still beat me when we meet.😞😞😞
307 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:30:17
308 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:16:55
The desperation felt by anyone connected with this club was (imo), so avoidable.. WTF was he thinking playing Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson in the middle of the park ?
The German surprised nobody when he named a bunch of kids, He hadn`t even tried to keep it a secret. The people in our camp MUST have known. wat they would face.
These RS kids havent yet made the grade, some of them probably never will. The only thing we could have been absolutely certain of was that they would bring a high degree of energy...so we match them up with one of the most pedestrian midfield partnerships the premier league has seen ? I still cant take it in.
Tom Davies has been thrown in against some of the best midfield players in the league in recent weeks. He may not have always come out on top, but he has held his own. This game was crying out for him. His opponents may have been his peers but he is vastly more experienced than them. he`s accomplished more than them. How we can ask him to play against the best adn most experienced, then deny him the opportunity to show his metal against lesser experienced players is beyond me.
The same goes for Mason Holgate. He has acquitted himself so well against vastly more experienced, hardened players when asked to step into midfield. Why didnt we have these two matching their energy ?. . . And whats all this two right back lark ?.. Why on earth didnt he play Richarlison wide right. we know he can play there.
Why didnt we give young Kean a start against players his own age ? We have repeatedly asked this kid to compete with vastly experienced arl arsed center halves, but we don't give him a chance to build his confidence against lesser players of his own age ? What the fuck is all that about ?
I accept Ancelotti has only been here a short while. I accept he has to be given time to turn this basket case of a club around, I accept and agree with every world Lyndon pens when he is hammering the players. but none of that should mean we should afford Ancelotti immunity from any blame or accountability.
He fucked up big time with his selection last night and he should be called on it
309 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:19:00
There is not a lot more that can be written about the disgraceful, even cowardly performance from a bunch of players who have the cheek to call themselves professionals. The thing that sickens me is these overpaid, under performing rubbish that come out the next day, after shaming the badge of Everton F.C. saying they will improve in the next game. What kind of a statement is that, you pick and choose games you play well in. No you are paid to do a job and perform to the best of your abilities every time you go on the pitch to represent Everton F.C.
Ancelloti must have got his eyes opened by the lack of effort especially in the 2nd half to the huge job he has gotten himself into, and win or loose this weekend don't even allow some of the poorer players from last night to even be on the subs bench.
311 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:29:09
Most PL fans can' t see the point of Everton. We have hung around like a bad smell for decades, and only a brief flirtation with the Moyes and Martinez years since Kendall have offered anything remotely interesting so we end up in 2020with a bunch of disinterested mercenaries.
312 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:39:26
313 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:50:20
314 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:59:09
It was Gary Player, right sport wrong golfer.
315 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:02:03
I have it on good authority that Ancelotti asked Brands ONE question, which was "D'yer think we should both just get ter fuck"?
316 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:20:36
Lucas Digne and Yerry Mina came from Barcelona but both played like it was the Ecuadorian team.
Gylfi Sigurdsson cost £40 million. He cant run. It physically pains him to run.
Pickford is a great shot-stopper and a wonderful presence in goal but has to ask old ladies to reach stuff on the top shelf for him in Tesco.
Seamus Coleman hasnt been the same since the leg break,
Mason Holgate looks every bit a quality player until he inexplicably passes the ball to the opposition four times in a row
and Richarlison loses his head the moment he realises his teammates are all useless. Which happens a lot.
Djibril Sidibe looks more Serge Aurier than Serge Aurier, which isnt a great sign, but was at least the only Everton player to go over to the away fans at the end of the game.
You could put an office swivel chair in midfield instead of Morgan Schneiderlin and you honestly wouldnt notice the difference.
317 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:25:52
1) we are permanently a club in transition
2)The some too old are roughly the same age as Leicesters leaders and talismen (Evans Schmiecal Vardy)
while the some too young dido (Maddison,Tielemans,Soyuncu)
3)We don't have a world class manager, we have a former world class manager
4)We have a DOF who spent over 100 million this summer and made the squad considerably worse with not one of his six signings being a clear success, some failures and some unlucky/undecided
5) We have an owner who swaps between ideologies and managers at the drop of a hat and hasn't a clue what he is doing.
I genuinely don't mean this to have a go but I'm more worried about our club now than I ever was under Kenwright, Moyes and Martinez. We were skint, we were proud, we had our moments but we were Everton. I don't know who these fuckers who are playing for us and I don't trust those at the top end to make it any better soon.
318 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:28:50
319 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:29:55
320 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:45:48
It may be quite a while until we're as good.
321 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:49:40
Your boy - like mine - is already on a path to the Promised Land and he'll get there one day. I just hope I'm still around to see it too!
322 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:52:07
323 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:01:54
324 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:02:42
Well get nowhere near this level of football, and it will cost us a few hundred million to find out.
Leeds build from the back, but they do it intelligently and with a lot of zip and composure, its not predictable, and they will go long with a measured direct ball, when its on, and if its needed.
325 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:09:06
326 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:10:35
327 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:12:46
328 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:03:46
Similar situation now. Im not a fan of Brands and would rather he wasnt here, but if there is one way he could prove himself it would be somehow negotiate a few deals for players (Schneiderlin, siggy, Keane, Bolasie, Tosun, Walcott) and free up some wages for younger hungrier players.
We need to stop throwing money at it and only sign players with care and diligence. Actually build a team and squad.
329 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:53:00
The next day after a match you usually calm down a bit but I am still furious at the spineless showing of some of that team and I can't yet imagine watching Everton again while that deadwood and Walcott are still there.
330 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:59:25
And I know exactly what he's thinking: "They asked me to polish a turd while I was there and now they're asking Ancelotti! He'll be gone in a season!"
331 Posted 07/01/2020 at 00:59:34
332 Posted 07/01/2020 at 10:16:18
333 Posted 07/01/2020 at 12:34:01
We have to make changes that much is a certainty but with who ?
Davies ? Possibly.
Gordon ? Adeniran ? Gibson ?
334 Posted 07/01/2020 at 12:36:40
Thanks boys. As a ps yes what a pathetic performance on Sunday, it's all been said by others more knowledgable than me but God it was awful as Dick Emery used to say.
Mods. If his should be on a different thread then feel free to move it, thanks.
335 Posted 07/01/2020 at 13:25:01
Most of us embraced the majority of players we've signed over the past few years and waxed lyrical about them. All of the previous managers had to pay over the odds in either wages or fees, to get them to sign for Everton, because like it or not, that's where we are in the pecking order.
What really pisses me off though, are those posters who come on TW and write how they've never liked, (insert manager/player) and they've been proved right because they're (insert adjective/expletive). Seriously, what is the point of their scribblings?
Then we have the sell them all rants, for God's sake, how do we do that? Most of our players have at least a couple of years to run on their contract, how do we get other teams to buy our rubbish?
Every purchase of a new player is a roll of the dice, put our low confidence and fear of fucking up even more into the mix and you've got a recipe for disaster. We're at that point now.
I haven't got the answers, I'm praying that Mr Ancelloti has. I've read a couple of decent posts, that realistically reflects our situation, but one that stood out was where the author reminded everyone, through the tale of his grandfather who supported LFC, that he had to live in Everton's shadow for years, before he tasted success. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where we are right now.
336 Posted 07/01/2020 at 13:40:02
This wasn't the worst game in my memory. I'm spoiled for choice as to what game that might be, and it would be too much mental effort to isolate any one game.
As to getting stick from reds, well, for fuck sake, that's part and parcel of being a Blue living in Liverpool. You either hide away, or give back as good as you're given, there's no point in complaining about having to face them the next day. You can just get hardened to it, I know, because I have.
Sunday is now history. The next game is the next game. As Big Dunc said when he took over, we take one game at a time, and do not dwell on what's been or what might be. We have a new manager, supposedly a top one, which most of us have been craving for. So let's see how he can sort this lot out and make them worthy of wearing the same colours that were worn by Labone, Ball, Kendall and Reid.
337 Posted 07/01/2020 at 14:30:07
We were still several players away from having a full deck before the dreadful long term injuries that have totally disconnected our front from our back since the beginning of the season.
The players we have are not as terrible as they appear sometimes. There are a couple who seem to have lost their legs but circumstances force them into the side.
A couple of signings this month and we should stabilize a little but we are still going to be a mid table side. But we will be going in the right direction.
As far as continuing development it will probably help long term to not qualify for Europa. Bring some players in, get a system down and benefit from a real pre-season next year. I cant help but think that the really poor pre-seasons lately have at least contributed to some of the injuries that have plagued us in recent years. We are not fit enough.
338 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:17:46
Schniederlin should be nowhere near this team, as of at least 2 years ago,
I know we are limited to experienced midfielders at present, this can be the only reason he gets a game.
Walcott is not good enough, never was, is a chicken without a head, if anything ever "comes off for him" its luck, and he never meant it.
Siggy is a "free role" player, whether that is something we can afford or not I'm not sure. He setup the Walcott chance, where he miss controlled it for DCL to strike early on in the game, Siggy also took the freekick that created the Holgate chance, had they both been converted that would of been his contribution and anything else would of been forgotten. He is not a box to box midfielder. id guess he was picked again purely because of our limited options.
Pickford, in my opinion can be blamed partly for the goal, as it was he who tried to kick the ball 30 yards into central midfield giving the ball away (Countless times) for them to score, and if it didn't go to an opponent, it went into touch.
im gonna take the RS game as a blessing in disguise, maybe it will be an eye opener for Ancelotti. Had we won it convincingly none of the problems would have come to light.
339 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:25:02
340 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:47:06
I know some at least do their bit for charity but it might help to calm things down a bit after the Sigurdsson interview?
341 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:08:37
But trying to pitch that message when he is 2 weeks in the job runs the risk of making readers dismiss everything you write because of the absurdity of that statement. Sure he screwed up trusting the same rank senior pros who have dragged this team down for 4 years, but he didnt win all those trophies by not being able to see what is before his eyes.
342 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:24:44
If you follow @theesk on Twitter or www.theesk.com, Paul explains it far better than me, but that's the gist of it.
343 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:30:45
344 Posted 07/01/2020 at 20:56:01
345 Posted 07/01/2020 at 21:19:10
How sad can you get, but seriously..
Klopp and the RS decided to give Everton a free pass to the 4th round of the FA cup. Box ticked. A win at Anfield as well. Box fucking ticked. Even the bookies made Everton favourites to win this game, I mean City were better odds than us to win at Anfield. So, box fucking ticked again.
Enter stage Everton's first 11 and the RS's mixture of 2nd, 3rd and backup first team players. Well Agatha Christie could not have written a better script finishing with Klopp laughing his socks off as he watched us trying to score, defend and pass the ball.
The bottom of the barrel has finally been fucking reached, so Siggy, Walcott and Schniiiidereline, thank you. Now fuckoff.
346 Posted 07/01/2020 at 22:17:20
347 Posted 07/01/2020 at 22:40:02
348 Posted 08/01/2020 at 09:39:43
Don't get me wrong - he is a top manager but you cannot absolve him of any blame because of that. I can only imagine the stick that someone like Moyes or Allardyce would be getting if they had stood by and allowed a result like that to happen!
349 Posted 08/01/2020 at 10:38:14
I don't think anyone needs an ITK fibber to tell them we can't just keep spending unless we bring investments in.
350 Posted 08/01/2020 at 11:02:05
If you listen to the Podcast, they have repeatedly queried what Moshiri is up top and how he is raising capital. They thought there would be a shares issue. They need the AGM so questions can be asked and answers can be given. Of course the accounts will be presented and then the trio can work out what exactly has happened from the last set and explain it to us.
To call the Esk an ITK fibber is wrong.
351 Posted 08/01/2020 at 11:23:01
352 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:25:12
353 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:29:29
The only prediction I saw him make was to say that Zaha would not be signed as we could not afford him on FFP. He was proved wrong when we bid, but right when we did not increase the bid.
354 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:34:13
I am at work with people right now who have seen exactly the same from him. Its points for podcasts these days and Paul along with that John fella don't tell you anything the Echo doesn't tell you.
I cannot believe you are not aware of his fame for 'watch this space' kind of talk.
Yes Martin that is great if they actually are "in the know"(which is cringey and fame hunting) or if they actually tell you something you couldn't research yourself.
Tell you what Steve, why dont you tweet -what is the Esk like on twitter etc and watch the reaction. I'd bet my life you hear what i am telling you.
355 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:38:06
356 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:55:56
I try to be straight and true to everyone Steve and I would meet you and the Esk in The Oak and tell it exactly as I see it but also be civilised and genuine.
357 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:09:14
358 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:14:59
I heard he agreed to let them in for a meeting as they were threatening to come back mob-handed unless their voices could be heard.
They were ushered into a meeting room away from players and manager and gave vent to frustrations about 4 players in particular (Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun) being high earners but offering nothing.
Brands heard them out without voicing an opinion either way but said his hands were tied due to FFP.
I'm surprised they were allowed in TBH.
359 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:17:30
When I started supporting Everton, seems like centuries ago now, it never crossed my mind that we would become a laughing stock and would go trophyless, hopeless and clueless in such a short (relatively) time.
360 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:29:41
Led Real to 3rd place in a traditional 2 horse race
Won the German title with a significant diminished margin in a 1 horse race and was sacked after a poor start and unrest over fitnesss.
Took Napoli from a title challenging team to 8th place.
Some TW have argued for reasons for these declines but they are as real as his successes.
Steve I will ask you a few hypotheticals:
1- if Ancelotti was appointed Barcas new coach instead of us would you have raised an eyebrow (excuse the pun)?
2-why did a mediocre Arsenal hierarchy turn their nose up at a world class manager who was available,no payoff, wanted the job,has a residence and has a reputation for organising defences and harmonising big egos?
3-do you consider Alexis Sanchez world class? 3-4 years ago he was competing with Aguero and Hazard as the best in the PL and he can still win a title this year?
4-Could a clearly non world class manager like Koeman have done what Ancelotti has with the resources he had over the last 4 or 5 years considering what he is doing with his country?
361 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:29:57
If true its a shame they weren't capable of applying the same level of bravery on the pitch.
362 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:38:48
363 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:44:21
Mike@361: Maybe it's 'showdown time' and very soon a number of these players will be gone.
364 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:12:46
365 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:15:56
I am gutted I never went with the lads at Finch Farm now.
366 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:22:47
367 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:27:27
368 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:29:18
369 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:35:55
370 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:36:58
Each to their own but I am worried 4 or 5 players that we need will down tools. Bit of an understatement as some seem to have already done that but you get my theory.
371 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:47:27
372 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:50:12
373 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:56:40
374 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:02:36
I watched the Liverpool v Napoli CL match and Napoli were doing the same thing except they had players that could do it. It indicates to me that Ancelotti instructed them to play that way which then indicates that he has not reviewed how we played under Silva as it was a Silva type line up, Silva type tactics and a Silva type performance. That is worrying.
375 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:10:03
Sigurdsson seems to bearing most of the criticism and for me while hes as awful it is ironic that after he was subbed out the team performance became notably worse. The player who replaced him, Delph was shockingly bad. He is nothing more than a fill in full back and lacks any quality that you would hope for any of the mid field positions. So far this season he has talked some really good games though.
Pickford has become a total enigma. He looked great when he first came to Everton probably because he was probably more focused. He is THE total reaction goalie he can look like a world beater but he so lacks on the simple basics that Im not sure if he will ever have that reliability factor that great goalies all have. Oh for a Nigel Martin just now. Theres a lot to be said for ‘steady.
Schneiderlin the crowd just hate and have done since the infamous training ground incident. There has never been a future for him at Everton since then and he plays like he knows it. Him and Siggy are luxury players, Siggy can be a beautiful footballer who really doesnt fit the modern game. Schneids is a world class back passer and always seems to be one tackle away from a red card. He might do well in different circumstances but he needs to go just to cheer everyone up.
376 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:20:37
Andrew #368. Yes, fingers crossed we do bring in another GK who can come in and be a strong No.2 or a replacement for Jordan Pickford. I'd buy Jack Butland. He's still at Stoke. Wouldn't cost the world and would push Pickford to up his game and stop the fucking about with his kicking.
377 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:22:08
Talksport reporting it.
Sorry read back through the thread and found references to Brands talk.
378 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:27:11
379 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:44:48
Gavin we can always tell him if he was good enough for City he should still be there.
That should be his mentality but he seems to be coming from some deluded superstar angle.
He needed bringing down to earth and the chat I read with the fan, the fan was spot on and had more class than Delph.
380 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:03:00
381 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:48:02
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