A Disgrace to the Shirt

Everton, typical.

The good thing is that early on, Ancelotti has seen the mental weakness of these players against City and against a team of Lpool youngsters.

My hope is that he now recognises the need for at least one physically & mentally strong centre mid who can drive the team forwards and teach some nous to our young players, and the older ones who are interested.

We have too many weak players who don't score goals. That must change, I'd like to think Ancelotti knows who we need.

Everton now return to normal with extra holidays, as usual, since they are out of FA Cup and League Cup, in addition to the International breaks. God help us.

Ancelotti did not learn from the Man City game and did not consult with Big Dunc regarding best tactics. He has got a right kick in the ass at Anfield as a result, which he deserves.

Everton in that second half where unfit and unprepared.

Say what you like about Liverpool but their players now have a desire to win a pride in the shirt and the club. Effort and application, pride.

We have none of that, from top to bottom Everton FC is riddled with mediocrity, gutless, spineless and disgraceful.

Everton FC left me feeling ashamed tonight. Ashamed.

Whoever gave the massive contracts to Sygi, Schneiderlin, Walcott etc need to hang their heads in shame.

Not just the inflated salaries but the actual length of their contracts is disgusting. They need to leave the club this season, no if's or buts, they simply have nothing left to offer the club as player's.

As soon as were safe from the dreaded R word, Carlo has to give the likes of Anthony Gordon and some of the other highly rated youngsters a run in the team, can they honestly fare any worse than the three above?

I hope the manger is ruthless, he needs to be.

Never in all my years watching Everton, have I witnessed a 2nd half display as bad as that, ever.

A midfield so bereft of any idea whatsoever, against a bunch of kids who, "ran rings around them."

That display summed up the disgraceful mis-management of the clubs recruitment policy of the past 4 years.

Carlo genuinely needs a new 11, these spineless fuckers should be replaced by the under 23,s in the league.

Klopp schooled Ancelotti today, starting on Friday by letting it be known he was playing the kids. That saw Everton odds tumble and we became favourites to win the game. Pressure now on us... What Ancelotti should've done is the same thing. Told the press the League was more important and chucked some of our Under-23s in. Best in the country... aren't they?

Anyhow, Ancelotti pressed the same self-destruct button as Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce and Marco Silva loved to press. Carlo played the duds and we lost. Surely 4 or 5 of our kids could've done better than the walking dead that played today? Ancelotti bottled it and he morphed into Marco Silva today. The buck stops with him.

I wanted Big Duncan to stay in charge until the season end. The top-draw elite players and clubs Ancelotti is used to managing are a different animal altogether, it's a different art form. A different interpretation of the game to where he is now at Everton. Chalk and Cheese. Carlo is not cut out for this type of football.

The intensity Duncan Ferguson brought with him has vanished. Ancelotti appears as clueless as Silva on this showing. This is worse than the 5-2 loss last month. We all know the players that got the other managers the sack. Pity Carlo doesn't recognise a poor player when he sees one. That starting 11 today had Marco and Ronald written all over it.

I never thought that Shankly's boast that the best two teams on Merseyside were Liverpool and Liverpool reserves would actually come true.

What happened to Beningme? Always injured. He looked so promising when he was in the first team and the signing of the equally injured Gbamim was baffling. Gordon has to be given a serious chance ahead of Walcott. Other than this, we need to sign players and let youth have a serious chance. Letting Lundström go was clearly a big mistake. Who else will come back to haunt us from the crop of promising youngsters nurtured by Unsworth? We can’t allow more young players to go without them having a chance while the first team squad is crammed full of proven failures.

Oh, and yes, we have an injury list, but this was their C team.

I do think, as fans, we don’t know what we want. We criticise players for losing it when trying something going forward. The result is a midfield who always play safe, and inept performances like this.

Although I’ve slated Sigurdsson, we were instantly poorer when Delph came on.

The only players to come out of this game with any credit were Pickford, Holgate, Mina and DCL - whereas Richalison was ok.

I said after the last game that we’d have been better off with Big Dunc in charge for this game and the City game and I stand by that. Not saying that he’s better than Carlo, but he’s have had the team playing better than that.

If I was Ancellotti I'd be having them in one at a time and leaving them in no uncertain terms that performances like that are totally unacceptable. Can accept a lot of poor things but no pride in the shirt or themselves leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson are far too slow as a midfield pairing, Digne is not the player of last season, Coleman's legs have gone. Tosun, Walcott and others simply not good enough. We need to stop buying other teams rejects ad buy hungry players.

Rant over

I have never, ever seen an Everton team in all my days without the desire to fight. ( Moyes had me think it was poor, but this?)

Make a statement. Sack a few high profile players immediately.

Keep on doing it until the penny drops.

Angry...Upset.. embarrassed.. but most of all ashamed to be a blue. Thats how low I am. Not even relegation hurts as much..

That was a disgrace an absolute shambles and probably the most embarrassing defeat of my 60 years supporting this club.

There is not a player in that squad I could give a toss about if we sold tonight.

I agree that Everton trying to play the ball around at the back is tantamount to footballing suicide, and it makes no sense that players who already lack confidence and ability need that extra pressure put upon them. Is this due to Moshiri, asking for a certain style of play from his manager(s)? Do the likes of Siggy, Walcott and Snides have to be chosen to play, due to their salaries or because of the instructions of the owner?

I don't know what to think about the club and the players at this moment in time, but for a brief period of a fortnight or so we thought the team was back in shape and ready to fully represent us out on the pitch. But the last two games have shown us all that it was a blip and the reality is what we have witnessed for much of the last five years.

Money hasn't solved the problems it has made things worse, but someone has to take ownership of the issues facing the club and they must think long and hard about what the 'project' actually means.

I'll be happy when I see eleven players on the pitch able to pass a ball correctly more often than misplacing or under/over hitting them, shoot accurately more often than not and eleven players who fall to their knees at the end of a match because they've given their all for the cause - I fear it may be a long time before I feel happy again.

Really need to adopt a more direct approach.

Imagine having to vote a player of the year for this lot towards the end of the season...

I hope Carlo has some answers where the others failed. This performance reeked of mental weakness and no confidence. The more I watched the more I felt there was no beating heart of this team. We are weak physically, for speed and mentally in the middle of the park. Tom Davies comes in for some stick but he is head and shoulders above Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin who have done absolutely nothing to be starting ahead of him.

Some serious wheeler dealer-ing needs to be done to get some players out that need a fresh start to reignite their careers. Most of all we need to get a quality central midfielder in until our first choices Gomes and Gbamin return. Ancelotti will step up the search from tomorrow, guaranteed.

Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott , Bolaise, Tosun, Niasse and one or two more are now journeymen, earning a massive wage, and have not and never will, improve the team. Brands has the impossible/difficult task of selling or trading them. Our immediate future is tied to his success at doing it. Best of luck to him.

Absolute bunch of losers. I can understand the manager picking that side and expecting better but completely agree that he isn’t blameless either. But seriously, how can professional footballers, pretty much all Internationals come out and play like that. I’d be fuming if my 3 year old daughter passed like these idiots. I don’t get it.

Bin the lot of them, starting with the dickhead in goal. Most overrated keeper ever and get rid whilst we can still get a decent fee for him. It’s only a matter of time before everyone realises how crap he really is.

I never want to see Sigurdson, Walcott or Schneiderlin in the shirt again. Need a whole new midfield bit if we can’t buy this January, play some kids. They really can’t do any worse.

I want to go out on loan for two years!

I shall return to a team that can pass, control and the shirt actually means something!

Knowing my luck, my transfer request will be turned down. Morgan schneiderlin will be given a three year contract and Gomes is like a new signing. Everton fans are not chosen. They are handed down by their fathers as punishment. Even friends once made jokes take pity. Carlo must be in shock. Welcome Carlo to our world. The doctor will see you soon.

Shrewsbury 2 Everton 1 (the year Shrewsbury were relgated to Conference)

Everton 0 Tranmere 3

Everton 0 Wigan 3 (missed opportunity in Cup)

Semi v Liverpool at Wembley (1 up at HT and still lost)

Many thrashings in Europe by not even the top teams and in the league, Blackburn, and WBA scoring 4 at Goodison.

For me the best football on the eye in that time was Martinez first season, and the 2008 season. Even when we finished 4th winning 1- 0 mainly the football was not great to watch.

Todays performance however was shameless and as bad as it's been, but it's also been 20 years in the making. Even when I saw both starting line ups I had a nagging feeling we won't do it with S&S in the team. I was reminded of the FA cup semi v UTD when we could only beat a much weakend UTD team on penalties.

I just don't think Mosh has the money for what is required even now finally we have a manager who has dined at the top table.

Looking at the hight standard of the young Liverpool players of the future, it looks like our B Team, U23s is not fit for purpose. What are they doing that we are not?

A complete utter embarrassment.

Lyndon, you write so well but I must disagree with you on 1 thing: this was DEFINITELY on Ancellotti. How could he think we were good enough to play through their press? Especially after seeing the first half?

We should have played longer passes to get them turning OR he should have put an extra midfielder in there to change our 442 to a 433

Dunc’s team wouldn’t have been as disgraceful

What next? If I were Klopp I’d play my 4th choice team against us. And I bet we would fare just as badly

There is NO excuse for that today. Today I hated being an Evertonian. It’s just been disappointment after disappointment

The red lot wanted it more and are a credit to their club. Our lot were pathetic and I will never ever forgive them for today. There is nothing they can realistically do to redeem themselves

Bunch of cretins

And Ancelotti, for all his credentials, has, like all of his recent predecessors, failed to understand the importance of winning the derby, going by that supine surrender in the second half. What did he say at half time? "Careful now, they're only kids."???

We're at the point now where a derby win is not to be considered a luxurious topping to any season; rather, it's an absolute demand on which any Everton manager's tenure must stands or fall. This run of derby failures is utterly unacceptable.

One third of the inept midfield was his, both full backs, the headless one who cane off the bench and Bernard - who is becoming more and more invisible every time he plays. Granted Mina didn’t do a lot wrong today, but he’s not exactly been a £30million defender. Our best 4 players today (I’m including Walcott for his first half performance) were Holgate (Martinez), Pickford (Walsh), DCL (widely believed to be Rhino) and Walcott (Allardyce).

Liverpool took our ground, Shankley robbed our jokes, and now there fans are after our soul?

I saw the 1995 banner I heard the song and watching on my telly I was thinking we haven’t won in Europe since they killed 39.

Horrible thoughts for this ultra, politically correct, phoney,
modern world, but don’t let them take our soul, surely we are made of much stronger stuff than a lot of the cowards who don’t give a fuck for our shirt?

It's a ticket to perpetual embarrassment and dismissive mockery.

Today was the latest rotting cabbage to be hurled at our rotten bonce.

We've got too many career footballers at the club, going through the motions and banking the salary. They don't care about Everton too much, its a job. That kind of detached mentality seeps into the squad at all levels. It shows itself for what it is on match days. We are a bunch of players, and not a team.

…… well, quite!

Everton have lead for a total of seven minutes.

It really worries me that Carlos put him and Sigs together in the midfield.

Dreadful stuff.

A few beers helps sooth the pain but it’s life time pain and embarrassment.

Tony@40, spot on, that’s the way it is as an Evertonian.

It’s like a parable from the Old Testament, but the facts behind the consistent let down, which is EFC, are all true.

And Old Nick rises, and is ascending to greater achievements.

I hope that the board provide Carlo a war chest this summer, as a total overhaul of the squad is needed.

Not many of today’s squad should survive the cull, if and when it comes.

This is how you get loanees like Sidibe working harder for the shirt than full time contracted players.

Brands is looking increasingly like a phony DoF who buys more duds than winners.

I don't buy that getting a top striker is hard.

Ashamed to say it but a top striker wont touch us with a barge pole, only a mercenary that wants a big payday.

As a club right now we are doomed.

It is the spineless tossers on the pitch to blame for this.

Senior players such as Coleman, Walcott and Sigurdssen should have been screaming at the players that this was a great chance to beat them, instead they don't lead but hide.

The lack of professionalism and care today, in my view suggests that there’s some thing missing at a Finch Farm. What the hell happened in the second half, ?

No pride and unforgivable today. I hope there’s no, more apologetic remorse stories in the media, from these players.

It won’t wash any more.

Patience is needed but EFC, can’t wait forever.

This defeat today is legend, and increases the pressures on a very daunting job for CA.

We mention a lot about playing for the shirt! But very few among the top clubs do so these days. Our shirt represents our history and directly represents those of us who have an immovable passion and love for Everton. Only those who are born into and raised with this club, aside to some very special players who come here and become one of us and embrace the club ( Howard, Bally, Unsy, Sheeds, Sharpy, Duncan, Tim among many others) will truly play for the honour of representing the Everton shirt. As much as we expect it of all of our players it's not the case. They are playing for the benefit of their own career ambitions along with team they are a part of. We need to invest equally in bringing 'our own' through again so that an Everton team has its identity equally as much as it has journeyman outstanding players from around the world.

That lot across the park seem to have got the blueprint!

As brutal and as honest an indictment of the players as I could imagine.

What an odd and pointless thing to say?

They’re siting there rightfully proud of their 1st and 2nd teams and in shoring here (like many blues) totally ashamed of my lot

In the last 20 years they’ve had players that stand up for the shirt and win trophies. And win REPEATEDLY away at Chelsea & Arsenal & Utd. We don’t (we’ve won once at OT)

Eric. What are you talking about man????

My Liverpool mates don’t hate me - they PITY me!!!

‘It must be awful to support a club that never wins trophies, can’t win away at any decent team and always pee the bed against mighty Liverpool’

You know what? It IS awful. I hate it. My club and it’s wretched players are useless. None of it deserves pride. Only some yesteryear brilliance if you’re old enough to have loved it (I’m 40, in not old enough)

So why why why in gods name would they hate us? We are an irrelevance, nay, an easy 3 points to them. Trust me - they don’t hate us. They love us

For me a new captain on the park, some one forcefully, firm but fare and narky, must be planned, as we are rudderless and leaderless on the park.

Scary today as well, as if the s are developing their youngsters on this scale, via home grown and international recruitment, then, it looks like we are deeper in the crap, than we realise, in view of the next 5 years.

Surely soon, Everton’s fortunes will change, for the better?

I hope so, as I’m past the half way house, and in reality, it’s not gonna happen soon, bar a miracle.

I'm sorry but if you can't see today as being on one of the darkest days in our all-time history never mind recent history then you must have experienced some very dark days indeed.

And when we did go long their kids mopped up there as well.

Kids. Who'd have 'em.

One of the worse things we have ever done is come into money under Moshiri and at the same time keep Kenwright at the club pulling strings. The money the club has spent on sacking managers alone is staggering. How Moshiri is even a "billionaire" with his so called business acumen is a mystery.

Ancellotti needs to carry some of the blame for defending so deep and inviting the pressing by the Liverpool team of kids. Worse than the semi final, worse than the 86,89 finals, worse than the 5-0 home defeat in 1980’s. I’ve got to go to work tomorrow and listen to a load of armchair kopites dispense their usual banter.

Apparently he is going to talk to each individual player tomorrow he should invite one of us in with him for some brutal honesty. I hope Usmanov has deep pockets because we need some quality in now. Every time I think we can’t sink any lower this fucking football club breaks my heart. The Samaritans should have a special line just for Blues fans.

However, I needed to publicly add my support to Lyndon's heartfelt comments and hope those high up in the club can read the shame and embarrassment that second half performance has caused us all in the Everton community. As it was from Lyndon rather than anyone else, I hope it can reach them and make them squirm these next few days.

Disgraceful!

He played Schneiderlin. Possibly the biggest waste of space I've known in nearly 40 years of supporting the Blues.

Why do all our coaches persist with him? Tom Davies would have given us bite and energy through the middle. Instead the crash test dummy came in and, guess what, another embarrassing defeat came.

At least with Davies we go down fighting rather than this pathetic surrender that Schneiderlin is nearly always culpable for.

Similarly Gylfi. Totally pathetic.

Sorry but I will say it again. For all the eyebrow raises and experience winning with the biggest teams in the world, Carlo has never been in a dogfight like this before. I fear he is not the man for this situation. Duncan would simply not have tolerated that performance.

Now I'm off to apologise to my sons for introducing them to Everton. My Kopite brothers have always joked it was a form of child abuse - maybe they have a point.

Duncan is probably thinking tonight , 'my hands where tied', because the current Manager won't listen to me, as per usual.

I have no doubt the result would have been different if Duncan had been in charge.

Why introduce that messing around at the back when we can't pass the thing.

Why not go direct to DCL and play to his strengths.

Don't get me wrong the players where pathetic and should shoulder equal blame and be able to take initiative.

Ancelotti will have to learn to play to the players strengths not that they have many.

Get Pickford to smash it up the pitch. Get DCL to win headers. Get Richarleson in the box and tell the others to fight like fuck to get the ball. It's not brain surgery.

Too many shithouses in the squad.

If we don't see a reaction against Brighton we could end up getting dragged back into the relegation battle and this current squad of gobshites don't have any fight in them to get out of it.

We should have converted at least one of our chances, and from the quality of those opportunities, perhaps two or three of them.
If we had then this forum would not be the shitfest I am now witnessing.
You don't take your chances and you lose. Simple.
True that the second half was shockingly bad, but we all knew that Siggy can't play deep with Schnides and Walcott never lasts a whole game. We know Digne is awful this term.
The worrying thing is that Duncan and co haven't told Mr Ancelotti that these guys are shit.
I said yesterday, like Colin, that Klopp was going to put us in a lose-lose situation, so we should also play our kids plus a few old heads. It's not like we were going to win the cup anyway.
All we did was give Klopp and all of his fans in the BBC and the media the chance to applaud his kids ad let them off (poor dears) if they came up short.
Klopp - I detest. He is so very calculating. It is a real shame that he got it right again.
Carlo has now seen why we are in our position. It won't be a quick fix- it isn't so simple anymore. There are guys on contracts (some might have clauses that they must play whenever fit, who knows!) Plus we are so short on options and we need points to maintain the illusion of wellbeing.
We simply have to put up with our slow, aging players and pampered wimps until we can offload them.
We have to pretend to like them until at least the summer
Rome will be built...but not in a day.
NSNO

The second half was, without doubt, the worst half of football I have ever seen Everton play. We didn't have one decent attempt on goal. We just stood off their midfield and let them play like they were seasoned premier league players. I watched the RS team play away to villa in the league cup, and while they got beat 5-0, I don't think they deserved a 5-0 defeat. Yet it seemed like our lot today just thought they only had to turn up and the game was ours.

God knows how many times I've been to Analfield, but what I do know is, I've only seen us win there twice, and one of those was a league cup game. The other being the last time we won there. I've now resigned myself to the fact that I will never see us win there again.

As someone mentioned above, Klopp probably doesn't want to win this season's FA Cup. This might sound like sour grapes, but the RS will not get beyond the fourth round if Klopp plays the same team again. Any decent championship team will beat them, and certainly any premier team will, simply because they will have more heart, desire, passion, and whatever other adjective you can think of.

Tomorrow morning in training you Everton players, just think of it as you pick up your thousands of pounds in wages, you were beaten by a bunch of Fucking kids. I hope your wages make you feel a little better because right now there are eight thousand blues fans there today, and millions more worldwide, who right now probably want to kick the shit out of every single one of you.

Is this the first derby we’ve ever played without even one local lad on the field?

I was embarrassed to even witness that spineless effort.
I rode into New York with a kopite friend. Over breakfast our eyes mulled over the team news. I was aghast, he was incredulous.

Klopp pulled a blinder, a team-sheet which shifted the pressure fully to Everton to win a game he patently didn’t want to.

A Liverpool manager that couldn’t be arsed with a cup derby? I knew straight away we were completely screwed.

The pressure was too much, we snatched at every touch, the angst writ large on players faces, knowing the ignominy that awaited if they couldn’t beat an academy side.
Palpable were my shouts when we missed three grade A chances, composure a total stranger to this team.

Ancelotti looked ashen.

It ebbed away without any attempt to wrest the advantage, we subsided with a whimper and that has to be worse than any thrashing we have ever been handed by that lot.

They weren’t bothered, didn’t care and reveled in the ineptitude of our despair.
What we have can only be described as chronic and with no known cure. Everton you are pitiful and deserve nothing from us. Every penny should be refunded to the away end and their wages donated to charity, not ourselves (of course) as we are the very definition of a charity case.

I agree with the echo ratings. Kean I feel got 4 , because frankly Everton where not up that end of the pitch. His failed volley was a carbon copy of a previous failed attempt.

I hope the players really get to know their ratings. Safe Finch Farm they will quickly return to not being bothered.

In his interview after the game Ancelotti said 'We where not able to build from the back'. The problem is the players have never been capable to do so and this is obvious before this game.

A local semi pro team or decent ale house team would have beaten us tonight.

It's not the size of the man in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the man and our bunch of shit bags would have been beaten by our own u23s tonight.

Pathetic the lot of it.

We can analyse the team's obvious failings - the inability to cope with their press, the massive black hole where other teams - in a radical tactical idea, have this thing called a 'midfield', the inability to take chances when they sit up on a plate etc etc - but in different guises we've seen similar failings over decades.
Today for me though got to the root of the rotten core of the game now - for when it comes down to it, really comes down to it, they don't care all that much.
The morning after the last Derby humiliation Tosun put a video on social media of him scoring for Turkey. The previous night's result didn't seem to bother him for a second.
They are simply paid too much and - as I think another poster Colin alluded to - don't get the significance of the game in the way a local lad surely would. Peter Reid would have been grabbing his own team mates by the throat out there today. I'd loved to have seen it.

My point is that our team would have been beaten by any organised football team.

We are a shambles.

I agree with Brent@52. Shows what a big challenge is there for Carlo.

Others' comments re Brands can be premature. It will be interesting to see how Carlo and Brands work together. Currently depressed about the team but positive about going forward with Carlo at the helm.

Your reminding me of the knight in the Monty Python film.

Your optimism should be commended.

I just can't find or drag one ounce of positivity out of the game today.

Kids playing the way they did is a testimony to how well they have been coached. I have been thinking for some time, our academy players do well, win league b or whatever it is, then get around the first team in their early 20’s. Those lads playing yesterday are on the fringes of the first team a couple of years earlier

The pressing they applied was relentless and co ordinated. Ours was single players chasing defenders and keepers then being easily bypassed, often taken out of the game by a turn and pass. They didn’t let our players nJe the pass. Turn and find another red shirt in their way. It really was a quite brilliant display and embarrassing that it was so effective.
They had two experienced players for most of the match. Siggy and Morgan made Lallana look like Messi, AOC when he came on showed Richarlison how to run with the ball and not give away possession.

Can’t blame Carlo for that performance. Basics not being done by well paid players. Walcott looked good for the first half, then turned in a horror showing in the 2nd. Only he can understand how his foot turned to lead

It was also telling how much better the young Liverpool players were at their crisp passing and ball control. They zipped passes around. Their passes stuck. Our lads were ponderous and the looseness of control bewildering

Barring injuries that should be the last we see of Morgan. Siggy at least has a role to play higher up but better get used to the bench.
Kean should start instead of Walcott to at least get him game time, not that his efforts so far have earned it

Phoenix

We need to be decisive and move players out either on loans or sell them quickly if we don't feel that they'll make the grade. The academy needs to pay. How the fuck do the RS get £20m for shite like Solanke and we end up getting peanuts for our players who have gone through the same England youth sides.

I didn't know that the RS youth side trained with the first team. Maybe that's something we should be doing. I know the idea that all our players should play a certain way was muted under Martinez, but Ancelotti doesn't have a fixed philosophy on how the game should be played so I don't know if it would work as well for us.

This needs to be looked at by Brands, He's the guy buying youth players and loaning youth players out. Unsworth's done a great job but I do wonder sometimes why players like Niasse and Cuco Martina should be getting games. Niasse was recently played in a game instead of Ellis Simms. Is that because Unsworth is trying to get results over nurturing the young talent at his disposal?! I don't know, but if so, that might be why we have very few players in contention for the first team squad

Having just read through this I wish I'd have put this forward for consideration for it's own thread by Michael cos the U 23 set up only seems to get praise, but it isn't achieving in what it's really meant to do, by producing players good enough for the first team.

Saw Lyndon's title, and I thought, well ya, gotta have a read of this.

Usually I look forward to Lyndon's articles to temper my own rash, emotional, over the top reactions to all things Everton.

And what do I read? A much more polite, professional version of?

FUCK OFF YOU OVERPAID PRICKS!

Thank you Lyndon. It gives me great solace to know I'm not overreacting.

Diabolical today. Disgraceful.

Embarrassment, that all this club is right now,
A FUCKING EMBARRASMENT...

Nine of the players who played that day, played in yesterdays dreadful performance against a much weakened Liverpool team. The two changes were Keane and Iwobi ( v Chelsea ) and Coleman and Mina in against Liverpool.
The only changes made and yet the team performance against Chelsea and against Liverpool were incomparable.

How can a squad of professionals with experience of international football for their respective countries, years of premier league experience against all the big clubs and a world class manager, albeit only his fourth game in charge in a very short space of time.
How can the players, (I don't blame the manager), fail so utterly, be so comprehensively out played, out manoeuvred, out run, out motivated, out thought and out of the only chance of a confidence building cup run and opportunity to win at Anfield against our ever present nemesis.

I wonder about some of our players, Walcott, for example, experience of N. London derbies as well, is he really hurting after yesterdays game, is he deeply embarrassed, or is he wondering what restaurant to go for dinner, or whether he should buy a new car. And that goes for all of the players.

The rebuilding of Everton Football Club will happen. In the next five years, we'll have a new ground, very few of the players that attended yesterdays game, will be at the club and there will be newer and better players to replace them.
There will be highs and lows as all clubs experience but hopefully, yesterdays LOW will be THE lowest we ever experience again.

I don't expect a whole raft of new players, FFP regulations put paid to that immediate solution but changes will be made. In the summer, more changes.
Slowly a new squad will be put together, with hopefully some of our academy players making the grade.

Carlo Ancelotti signed a four and a half year contract and it will take that long for us to yet again experience success.

So, onwards and upwards Everton and all of us that love the club. Step aboard the rollercoaster, we're in for a hell of a ride.

If I were Ancellotti I'd publicly display a list of all those players for whom we will listen to any offer for in this transfer window.
Shame the bastards!

It was Ancelotti’s idea to start Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson. He picked the wrong shape and did little or nothing to change things. He picked Digne ahead of Baines. He had no answer to the high press that led to such fannying around at the back. He watched the goalie and back four pass it round the back like they were on ice knowing that there was not the pace in midfield to collect the ball and run with it but did nothing in his substitutions to address this, certainly not Delph. We needed to play the long ball more often, mind you when we did some pubescent in a red shirt dealt with it. Presumably, any tactical talk at half-time either fell on deaf incapable ears or was misguided or both. He left Schniederlin on the pitch until the final whistle. There is more to say on this but it seems to me that Ancelotti is the author of these mistakes.

That said, some of the vitriol aimed at him on this thread is shameful. He was a stranger a fortnight ago and a fortnight is enough for some to lampoon and lambast him and worse. That’s pathetic. Today was a travesty and Ancelotti must shoulder blame, but he can only work with what he has been dealt and in his pattern of multiple formations and shapes (in one game) and selections and substitutions he is clearly trying different options not to be a miracle worker but to learn. And he will learn. The intelligence and acumen that has been accumulated for several decades now does not jump ship because he has joined us and, importantly for me, he brings a sharp and wise outside eye to our squad. I wouldn’t pick a single one of them for my Premiership fantasy team.

The lion’s share of blame for that unforgivable and brutally atrocious second ’45 sits with the ‘players’. I’m not going to recycle the litany of sometimes thoughtful analysis and all-too-often primary school dog’s invective showered on the players and some in particular already on this thread. But collectively they were a spineless shambles for all of that second half. There was no reaction to the teenager’s goal that I could see apart from abject admission of defeat. It worried me that this gutless group – on the basis of the second half – did not react to either the goal or Ancelotti’s disapproving eye on the touchline. That last failure is not an indictment of the manager but of those headless chickens on the pitch, and it shows in graphic detail the job ahead of him. Another good reason why he was a stranger a fortnight ago, he has zero emotional and historical baggage and will do what is necessary.

The ‘end is nigh’ stuff on here is farcical. I agree with a lot of what Mike Dolan says on this thread but not all of it. Watching the lads pounce on him like Indians circling wagons is disappointing. He is being far more realistic than his more extreme naysayers.

I have high hopes that we will be in a better position this time next year. But my God so much needs to be done to get there and I do believe that Ancelotti has what it takes to make it happen.

I dread seeing his name on any team sheet, he seems to spread that disease to all around him without getting involved, and how anyone can 'disappear' on a pitch of 22 is beyond me, but he manages it!

The writing was on the wall when Unsworth was temporarily in charge at Finch Farm when he and Mirallas were dismissed from Training for not showing the right attitude and not getting involved enough, and being disruptive to team-mates.

What has changed since then?

Well Mirallas has moved on, but this maggot is still there. People will no doubt come on and still defend his corner, and point the finger at me, saying I always have it in for him, yes, I wonder why is my answer to them.

Why have successive Managers still picked him? I sincerely hope there has not been pressure from a certain area of the Board, to the effect, he cost £25M and is one of the highest earners you have to play him!

You only have to have one rotten apple in a barrel, and the rest will shortly follow suit!

Second half was a complete disgrace. Ancelottis eyebrow was raised higher than his head.

Kean is awful. If you thought Lukaku had a bad first touch this kid takes it to a whole new level. It's like watching someone play pinball. DCL and Richarlison can't do it week in week out so yes we desperately need a top striker. Also needed is a midfield general.

At the back both full backs Digne and Sidibe were so bad words can't describe it.

A lot needed. What a joke of a game. Were they embarrassed to be facing their second string? We need Gbamin back, we need something. A few years in now and Moshiri has spent a fortune on mediocre players.

I sat shivering in the desert last night in darkness... I could have cried. Ffs it couldn't get any worse. Could it?

Remember Silva saying we can't lose Schneiderlin now? Thats part of why he looked fed up before the Palace game. Left with scraps

More to the point - we should NEVER buy rejects from other clubs on the wrong side of 20s looking for a final pay cheque. There aren't any more Barry's and Milners left.

We hit the the lowest point yesterday in the clubs entire Merseyside derby history.

We’ve had 20 years from hell in that fixture and yesterday was a chance to go there and completely punish them with a heavy score line for all the years we’ve suffered, the embarrassment we’ve had.

But not a single one of our players rocked up yesterday and looked even remotely like a Premier League football player.

From the appalling snail paced passing at the back, the shambolic distribution from Holgate and Mina turning like a Ocean Cruise Liner to Pickford jerking about at the back with knobhead kicking right through to our anonymous midfield and striking options.

The whole team was a collective disgrace to the Blue shirt and has now taken a new low in the embarrassment stakes, it’s finally bottomed out it’s horror record in derby matches.

The players WILL get Carlo Ancelotti the sack, I’m certain of it.

Just as they said it’s brilliant working under Marco Silva and then put in diabolical performance levels they’ll do the same under Ancelotti and as we know now it’s always the manager that takes the bullet.

One thing I can feel confident of though is those players that played yesterday, I hope they now understand that performance and result has finally been the straw that broke the camels back and once and for all severed what weak bond this current group had with the fans.

There are no players out there the fans want to like anymore.

As I said before many don't like it, but I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions and views, and equally that they have the opportunity to print them on these pages.

I often wonder just what is going on at Board Level, every team has bought the odd rabbit for the price of a Tiger. We seem to have a complete Zoo full of rabbits masquerading as every animal that Noah managed to get into his Ark.

What the hell is going on?

Who is behind all this total incompetence?

I could hazard a guess, but sincerely hope there is nothing more sinister afoot. Like I have said many a time, it's all very well people saying (insert a name) should never play for us again, get rid as soon as possible.

These goons are on Set for Life Lottery style wages and contracts, safe in the knowledge that they have hit the Jackpot, and provided they don't become prodigal or a prolific gambler, or take to substance abuse will be made for life.

It is not easy to get rid, who will buy them, or even loan them, when even half the wages or whatever is agreed is way over the top to start with?

Unfortunately, we as fans are in it for life, these players who genuinely respect and play for the badge seem to be so far away, only to be replaced by pretenders and mercenaries.

I cried yesterday - the last time Ic ried I was 7 when Jeff Astle ruined my dream of seeing EFC win the FA Cup - we didn't have a TV in 66. Yesterday something died within me - thank you Everton.

I have NEVER been ashamed to be an Everton fan, until yesterday. It might be time to just pack it in now and focus on the good things in life as this is just miserable.

All of the players should be docked a months wages to go to charity for their unprofessionalism and cowardice. I cannot write the insults that they deserve as it would be as disgusting as that performance.

We have fans that have seen us win titles and trophies calling certain players very good or high potential because of a few moments and its sad. We haven't got anything classy and I knew it when it came through the door.

Look at them horrors across the park compared to us. Even fan wise. They wouldn't have slagged Lukaku all over Social media. They make important players feel important and loved. They stick together. They strive for the top.

Our fans say nothing when we sign a rivals dead wood and then moan when its too late. Its more frustrating than expecting Schneiderlin to play well. Worst still we didn't even kick a fuss when we we selling Lukaku to United who were one place above us.
Sell him abroad if thats the case, didn't even enter heads.

Shocking from bottom to top.

You simply can’t buy a winning mentality that’s drilled into the players that you buy, that’s why every player Liverpool sign all knows that it’s “win at all costs” losing is not a mentality they will accept.

At Everton for too long the players got comfortable with staying in the league and punching above their weight.

The only way to change that would be to sign mega players like City have, Aguero, Kevin de Bruyne ect but that’s just never going to happen here at Everton.

Whilst we keep signing castoffs and putting faith in players that are never going to move you forward, performances like yesterday are fast becoming the norm at this club.

Ancelotti will not be able to change it, yesterday has convinced me of that now.

He’s like a billionaire mogul that’s decided to buy a used car for a novelty but will quickly realise that it irreparable and beyond fixing.

All our new would-be saviour could offer us this morning was that he now had a whole week to address the problems. Most of us would tell him that a whole year will not be long enough !

It’s always “this time next year” with Everton, we are the Delboy of football.

It hasn’t taken Leicester years to get a good team has it?

6 years ago they are a Championship club and look at them since, League Champions in 2016, and probably two Champions League appearances and a League Cup Final.

Wolves under Nuno, win promotion and are instantly a braver bolder better team than us, players that care about the fans.

Everton are a stuck in the mud disgrace.

I know it offends people but I’m not sure I see all these “fine young players we have”.

I’m sorry but I just don’t.

Fine young players are what you seen on show at Liverpool yesterday, trained to be crisp passers of the ball, confident with the ball at their feet, shooting and high energy.

Our young players are coached poorly that’s why virtually none have been able to make a big impact in the Premier League, forget the Under 23 title, that’s not what we need, we need players coached with the ability of comfortably making the step to and there’s a reason why four managers now don’t select anything from the Under 23’s.

But I do agree with you on the other part, the senior players have the personality of a frying pan.

They weren't the only culprits but fuck me they were the worst. Notice MS rolling around on the floor before the goal. Two absolute fcuking cowards.

As poor as he is, Davies every game from now on in and possibly the walking fcuking crock that is the over rated Delph if he can go two hours without getting injured.

Ancellotti must have been given assurances by the board regarding players irrespective of announcing record losses. Maybe he has to sell to buy in January and rebuild on the summer. League status is paramount until Ancellotti builds his squad.

In any case, 3 of our best performers recently have been Holgate, Davies and Calvert-Lewin, who all had significant spells under Unsworth, whilst we have Kenny playing well in Germany and 2 lads who have recently left playing extremely well in a (albeit struggling) championship side (Williams and Robinson).

We had a talented group of kids a few years ago, (Kenny, Robinson, Holgate, Connolly, Davies, Williams, Dowell, Lookman, DCL)Most of whom didn’t get a chance, their progress suffered as a result.

Maybe the issue isn’t Unsworth himself, but how aligned the academy sides are to the first team and the progression from U23 level to the first team. As some have pointed out, the U23’s seem to play a different way to the first team, Liverpool’s kids knew exactly what they were all doing.

Carlo will be in shock at what's he's come to. I don't want him to walk in the summer but it's not out of the question.

If we’d played that game yesterday like we played Chelsea under Dunc we’d have won it 4-1 because their kids would have struggled defensively.

We are bad enough to go down and looking at the league table we are far from safe so I can’t look up after that performance yesterday, much more like that and we’ll be right back in the bottom four.

Are you a kopite taking the piss. 10 league titles and 6 European cups behind them you say.

What might happen if you could please enlighten us. Focus on us and not them. Jeez what do you think we are and have been doing for uncountable decades.

They need hammering,to the point of desperation for this.

But no,he wouldnt.
Until finally he envagles a (football billionaire) Mug,who agrees to keep him in the forefront/chair and full time earwig.

And to those who keep saying he saved us . Yes he did.

He saved us at that period from investors who would of invested Wisely in the new prem/Sky money windfall and booted the "true blue" parasire into the Mersey.

I would be very surprised if ANY of the players even feel a tad of remorse, and don't let it affect them one iota.

They were probably all out at expensive restaurants with their WAG's tucking in to a Steak that probably cost more than the Ticket admission to Goodison per portion.

Then jumping in to their expensive cars and going home having had a good evening, and eventually having a peaceful night's sleep.

Before anyone accuses me of jealousy, no far from it, money does not mean a great deal to me, but Everton do, and being able to share that experience with a lot of genuine other Blue supporters is worth far more.

At least it was!

Fans turn on managers quickly, Martinez, Allardyce, Koeman and Silva all got dogs abuse but players get off freely.

It’s now time the finger was pointed firmly at every single player at this club, young and old, they all lack the hunger and desire and passion to work hard and learn.

Liverpool are everything we are not, and they have arguably the best manager in the world with a coaching set up, scouting networks etc to back it up

Our signings have been woeful, and management and coaching of younger players equally bad.

Think of this way, if you're son was a highly gifted young football player, where would you want him to hone his talents? Everton or Liverpool?

For me, no question. Liverpool every time.

I bet the likes of Antony Gordon must have watched yesterday thinking, 'if only'

It'll be interesting to see the fans' reaction when we go to West Ham, as well.

The answer it would seem is "nothing" and that causes the tensions between friends and colleagues.

I/we could:

- - stop going to the match
- - stop watching them completely
- - not engage on TW with anybody
- - go to the match and Boo and scream and call individual players names (some of who deserve to be told what they have done to us and OUR Club - -but again - - frustration - - because how do we tell them)
- - change Clubs
- - hate Everton

None of these for me but I am still cursed with a brain and a Blue Heart and a Blue Soul and my frustration is growing.

Do not want to hear anything about the stadium for a while - - or EITC - - or replaceable paper cups or Operation Goodison - - just want to see changes and passion and pride somehow returned to our Club something that has been clearly missing for a long long time.

Ancelotti got the selection and tactics wrong, but he will have learned a huge amount about the shameless and cowardly senior pros that sadly we as supporters have know for a long time. No pride, no standards and no character.

I know it feels like deserting a sinking ship, but I am tempted to zone out from Everton until the start of next season. It will give Brands and Ancelotti two transfer windows to continue reshaping the squad and will save me stress and extreme irritability. Most of all, it will hopefully mean I never have to watch Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott in an Everton shirt again.

Our U23 were PL 2 Champions two years ago and are doing well again now - having had a "new" intake from lower age groups in the academy.

So, clearly, our coaching at that level is working well.

The rot starts at the senior level.

It is easy to be critical, but, having tried to address the obvious void in midfield by the permanent signing of Gomes and the signing of Gbamin in the last window, who could have envisaged that both of them would have been out of the side due to long term injuries in their fist full season with us?

They were scheduled to be the new "engine room" for the side, and we lost them both.

Delph, I grant you, I can't understand as he was injury prone to start with - but was surely meant to be just a back up, used very occasionally.

So, the pairing of Siggy and Schneids at CM should never have been - but it was forced on us by circumstances and the result is there for all to see.

That is not bad management - its damned bad luck.

Hopefully, with the advent of our new manager, our luck will also change - it needs to.

And Delph is falling well short of the expectations we had for him, injury prone, and when fit, not all that effective.

Hopefully we'll be rid of all 3.

However I disagree with some people's assertion that we need a 'big, mean bastard' in the middle. I understand such shouts, but the days of your Vinny Jones' is long gone.

What we need is Gana. He is the only player we've had who can press like the best of them, his speed, energy, work rate and intelligence was incredible. And since he has gone, our midfield has wilted. I can't remember a single game where our midfield 'won the battle' and controlled a game.

So we don't need a mean bastard to scare the opposing midfield and rally our troops, we need a real midifeld warrior.

In Gana we had, and lost, and for.such a small fee too which is sickening. But until we resolve this glaring weaknesses, were done for.

While on the subject of absenteeism your mate Kevin Tully, has seemed to do a Houdini too. Surely we can't go any lower, well we can, but that's unthinkable, but like George McKane says many of us still have Blue Hearts, and even if the players can't or won't, we will survive!

The more time goes on the more I suspect that Unsworth may be targeting the former more than the latter.

The notable thing about the RS kids is that they all were able to play immediately withing their philosophy, high pressing, high intensity etc. When Klopp arrived he installed a unity of purpose and style throughout the club so that all the youth teams play in the same style as the senior teams.

I'm pretty sure that still does not happen at Everton. The U23s were playing a different style and formation to Silva's 4231 very frequently. Of course it's difficult to match identity when there is no clear one!

Also Unsworth was and is playing older players like Charsley who have no future at the club and thus blocking time for younger players. Perhaps putting results for the team (and him as manager) above the development of players for the first team. I don't know many of the ins and outs but have read some pieces by people who are more in the picture and allude to some differences between Brands and Unsworth over these matters.

One thing I do know is that there have been very few players over the last 3 years who have come from the academy to play regular games for the first team. The last batch was Dowell, Kenny and Davies and they moved up around 3 years ago.

Meanwhile Liverpool bought Minamino for £7m. Yesterday was his debut having not played for a good few weeks and I thought he looked one of the best players on the pitch. Quick, hard working, excellent touch and good vision. He's only 24 and though it's early days i'd not be the least surprised if he's worth 4 times as much in 2 years time. Plus he'll help them shift a load of shirts in Asia. That is exactly the sort of signing that a well run, canny recruitment department is making!

Enjoy your break.

People are talking about the confidence of the RS youngsters, If one of those golden 1st half chances had gone in they would have crumbled, like they did against the Villa. We gave them confidence, we let them grow into the game. If that scally hadn’t picked out a worldy the match probably would have fizzled out to a nil-nil, what else did Pickford have to deal with?

Someone early in the thread described this as a watershed moment, that’s exactly what it needs to be. Clear out the shite, let Carlo attract the talent (if there’s money?) and let’s completely start again. I know we’ve had many start again moments, but this one feels like it could be different. I live in hope and as we all know, it’s the hope that kills you. COYB

My other stepson, who's a Blue, [and a rugby player] says he's going to watch Sale Sharks from now on!

Liverpool’s teams all play the same pressing style at all levels and they have top pros to mentor and role model the young players as they transition into the first team. The senior pros at Everton are the problem.

I don’t think that Unsworth can be blamed for securing two PL2 titles and not mirroring the style and formation of the first team - 4-2-3-1 and ten tons of shit across four managers is probably a benchmark he wisely chose to ignore. We probably have been too sentimental about certain young players, but that mentality seeps through the entire club. Unsworrh has done well in getting DCL, Davies, Kenny and Holgate in and around first team football. They then struggle to make the same impact as Liverpool’s youngsters do as they are surrounded by garbage senior pros when they get there.

Like Li Tie or Wi Fang?

Does that put us 20 years ahead of them marketing wise?

Like Ferguson at Utd. Wenger at Arsenal, Guardiola at City. The most important person at any club is the manager.

We have undoubtedly a top manager. Moshiri has to back him to the hilt, fair play or no fair play otherwise we may as well have appointed Dyche or Howe.

We were outclassed and out fought by a group of kids, however, yesterday may provide a silver lining as it will waken Carlo up to the task that he faces and the need for some additions between now and the end of the month.

Zaha, in the summer, and Moyes, a couple of weeks ago, were lucky in the extreme not to find there way to Finch Farm.

The hard work now begins and for those who think the season is over well you can think again, there is at least 1 team in the bottom 3 capable of catching us between now and the end of the season.

Nothing wrong with passing out from the back if you have midfielders that make themselves available. Davies would have done that more than who was out there. That was Carlo's mistake.

In the first half we did better when we played it long. Klopp sussed that out and in the second half they pressed us right back. And we let them. We gave up.

Their average age was 22, ours was 26. That game was a great advert for their academy, mentality, recruitment and joined-up thinking from youth to senior. It was a damning indictment of ours.

I spent all night tossing and turning, running that pathetic second half performance through my head again and again. The last time I felt as low as this was when we got beat by Shrewsbury. It's not so much the result that's the killer, it's not even the fact that we got beat by the RS. It's the fact that it was their Fucking kids. The record books will only say Liverpool 1 - 0 Everton but we will forever have it rammed down our throats it was "Their Kids". That's why I feared the worst when I heard their team before the match.

Jim Bennings, you say this lot will get Ancelotti the sack. Not going to argue with you over this, as I think this lot could get father Christmas the sack! I've said since Ancelotti was appointed, that if he can't revive the club, then nobody can. One of the most respected managers in world football, and his team turn in a performance like that. I'm not going to go on about the way the team lined up, or the players that were selected, that's been done to death everywhere on this thread, but I'm sure Carlo already knows he made "one or two mistakes" yesterday, and will rectify it this coming weekend.

It will need an astronomical turnover of playing personnel so that Ancelotti can bring his own players in, but this could take years, and this is something no premier league club gives their manager, TIME!! I hope to God that Ancelotti is not here for his one final big payday, and his heart will truly be in the club. Given time, I do believe he can turn things around. This, without doubt, is probably his biggest challenge ever. Everywhere he's gone, he's gone in with an established team already there.

Right now, I could probably understand people who say "I've had enough, I'm not going ever again" As much as the frustration, anger, and whatever other adjective you can think of, it will never get the better of me. I will still be there on Saturday, and at West Ham the following week.

EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB IS "IN MY HEART AND IN MY SOUL" and will be until my time on this planet is up.

Mind you, none of that absolves our players for failing to turn up in the second half. And it doesn't detract from the fact that it was one of my lowest moments as an Evertonian.

That last hour it was all laid out to see. We have a non-team, full of strangers who are forced to play together. Less fight, Less desire, Less teamwork, Less understanding, Less camaraderie and no-one to take responsibility.

Carlo's only been here 2 seconds, but he will have to do more than tweak this squad,it's mentality and our training techniques.

He needs to drive a water canon into Finch Farm, turn the squirter on to max. and hose the whole rancid setup into the nearest sewer.

It's time for a clean slate and new beginning.

Quite why Ancelotti has seen fit to bring back short goal kicks puzzles me. Duncan had dispensed with those in the knowledge that the players were incapable of making it work. Yesterday it played to our weaknesses and the opposition’s strengths. Why do that?

If any good is to come of yesterday’s result, the club must start planning a revolution in terms of style, personnel and performance levels. That will not happen overnight. The immediate priority must be to secure the five wins required to guarantee safety.

The sooner he can do that the sooner Ancelotti can start testing what he has available in the under 23s and under 18s. Along with that must come a radical change in playing style which can only be brought about by bringing in younger players with the energy, sprinting speed, stamina and team ethos which we saw in abundance from the opposition yesterday.

I hear about how wonderful the supporters are of a lot of clubs via the media, well let me tell them that none can compare with our young supporters. They turn up in their droves at home and away games and get behind whichever team is put on the park, yet they are constantly let down. But unlike the players they don't throw their hand in, and are there week in week out despite knowing the chances of winning anything is slim.

I am still in shock over what happened yesterday, but like many of us I will be there on Saturday, because good or bad Everton is our club. As I say to my friends who support the other lot, its very easy to support a club that has won as much as they have, but it takes a really special fan to support their team who constantly under perform, which are fans do . So this morning might be as low as we have felt maybe ever, remember we might have had awful players and have had awful managers, but we have the most loyal bunch of supporters anywhere in the world.

I am mightily proud of everyone of them, I wish I could promise them things will get better, but what I do know is that they will always be there in their thousands whatever a shambles of a football team we have to support.

Both I may add on inflated fees for what they were actually worth, and both subsequently, apart from the odd goal, or half a decent performance, failed to repeat it since.

Okay, not either player's fault, but Lardiola is not off the hook in any way shape or form for his part, in the financial miasma that has pervaded our Club.

Plus he managed to walk away with yet another Lottery win in Compensation- Unbelievable Geoff!

Not to mention the dire Football under his tutelage, but even his style was possibly surpassed yesterday, and I don't wholly blame Ancelotti, although his hands were tied to a degree with availability, I do think Tom Davies over Schneiderlin would have been a slightly better option.

Maybe that was part of Carlo's plan, let's expose these under-achievers so Moshiri and Brands can see how poor they are, and a decent foray into the Market is a MUST, regardless of FFP if survival is to be guaranteed!

Why can we not get a full 90 min performance from any of our players? They all seem to drift in and drift out of games. Never focused [or fit enough?] to have a full on performance for the full 95 mins.

It's like we have a subservient mindset and rather than turn the screw and take the game to the opposition we have players who sit back and react to the opposition, rather than take control and fight for that control. This trait has been going on for years.

Everton in truth are a bunch of slowpokes who were outran by a team of youngsters determined to show Klopp that they too deserve to be wearing a first team shirt.

Even when the most experienced player was off due to injury Klopp didn't hesitate to bring in a youngster.

One could understand the grin on Klopp's face when being interviewed. He had engineered the most famous of Anfield derby victories with basically a team of schoolboys.

We know what needs to be done and it needs to be done fast because this debacle won't be forgotten soon.

Like someone mentioned earlier on in this thread, we have the best set of fans anywhere in the World. I think it's about time our loyalty was repaid with some joined up and entertaining Football. Oh and results too!

Straight away the defence is put under immense pressure, and yesterday we gave the ball away a couple of times as a result. My philosophy is "if the ball is seventy or eighty yards away from your goal then the opposition can't score". Defenders are there to defend, not fanny around in your own penalty box. Let your midfielders and forwards try all the fancy stuff, but FFS do away with these short goal kicks.

We have been conditioned to accept mediocrity, and have lost sight of a what good player actually looks like. We think because someone has the odd good game they're great. They're not. Coleman is at the end of his career so I can forgive him. Holgate and Digne are crap. Accept it and replace them. Obviously our midfield "SAS" should never play again, and neither should Walcott. Overpaid and completely past it. Delph looks an awful signing too.

There are Championship players that can perform better than these clowns. It's the most gutless bunch of players I've ever witnessed at Everton. They are a disgrace.

Two weeks Carletti has been in.Hes made his mind up.
Tosun, out,Gylfy out,a few more not in his plans.
He knows what he wants.

Never in his career has he commented on his players after the game.
He did last night,so a good few are done at Everton.

They played how he told them for 45 mins and should have bern up 3-1, 3-0 halftime.
They had a style,a plan.
Came out second half,decided to play the way they wanted.
Thats the sack if you play for Carlo Ancelotti.
As a pro, your paid to play a certain way as a player,do ya bit in a system.
If you cant do that first,ya gone.

But he needs 6 wins or 18 points, first and foremost.
Home wins,pick up some points away.
Clear the whole squad out,Pickford included maybe if he can get £70million for him.
I think we have to leave it to him.

He will want to challenge for evetything next season so watch this space.
Anything is possible.

Moise Keane???Its down to Carlo, if he can get him performing,same with Richarlison.Consistant shifts or sell.

Just have to leave it to Carlo now.Its his job to do it,hell be sacked,or get a statue.

Loads were smitten over Brands before he done or won anything here. Now they feel daft. I didn't even see one person mention whether or not its harder to buy players for the here than in Holland.

Not even that little hint of concern, just pure trust by an already failed regime.

I was the mad one for asking them questions.

Its mad how we have to get beat by the Red shite before everyone notices our players are shite.

Siggurdson has apologised in The Mirror today. Sound mate all is forgiven you useless water carrying wimp excuse for a footballer.

The profligacy in the transfer market doesn't bear thinking about. We've spent comparable amounts on Davy Klaasen and Michael Keane than the RS spent on Salah and Mane. We were better when we had no money.

Is there a club where the mood swings as much though as Everton? After the 5-2 thrashing we were all down and out. Big Dunc got us believing again and gave us some pride back. The planning permission for BMD got submitted, we got Ancelotti and were being linked with the likes of Ibrahimovic. Then we hear that Usmanov is interested in investing further. All looks rosy. Then we put in the most abject performance against them that I can remember and there have been many to choose from. Bloody Everton!

Reported recently: £80 million for Richarlison and £50 million for Pickford. Get rid of both and offset the losses we would make on the rest. Not one of that team deserves to wear the Everton shirt again.

We obviously know that they will. But I hope to god not many of the shite we have at our club today will be there by the end of the 2020 summer transfer window. That's got to be the most expensive, talentless and spineless squad the Premier League has ever seen... They are that bad.

I'm still in shock at the abysmal second half and Ancelotti's failure to change things when we were being overrun.

I've seen every Derby since they were promoted, and many drubbings, but yesterday was a new low. No radio or TV on in our house; my only communication with the outside world is on here with fellow Blues and the occasional glance at the Everton FC website just in case we sign someone!

I really feel for those having to go into work and cope with gloating armchair RS; yesterday's journey home on the bus and train was bad enough. I was so embarrassed I just kept my mouth shut.

Like many others I've thought long and hard about why I bother, after so many kicks in the teeth, but players and managers come and go but once a Blue always a Blue. (I'm not religious but I'm starting to think I must have done something really dreadful in a previous life!)

Ancelotti has a clear week to try to instill some organisation into this rabble. Like others I'll be there on Saturday and at West Ham the following week.

Next week's AGM should be interesting!

You know when you were stood with one of the lads who had a ball at their feet and said to you, watch this, because hes about to aim for a certain place with the ball. Thats Sigurdsson.

Unless Richarlison has no time on the ball hes near the same. A 12 year old Centre Half could read their aim.

Pickford (best of a bad bunch)
Sidibe (best of a bad bunch)
Baines (Digne should read dire)
Mina
Holgate
Bernard (left)
Richarlison (right)
Davies (for the sheer fact I never want to see MS or GS again)
Delph (if he hasn't farted and ruptured his rectum or something)
Gordon (off the striker, somethign needs to change)
DCL (best of a bad bunch)

4411

In an ideal world, I wouldn't have around six of that team starting, I particularly don't rate Delph.

Sad thing is look at the other possible candidates, Steklenburg, Keane, Niasse, Schneiderlein to name a few.

The squad reeks.

I believe the side is hampered by it's midfield. This is the key part of any side and our central midfield are expensive Steve Walsh / Ronald Koeman mistakes. There was only 4 Brands players in the starting lineup and it seems to me to be a recurring theme that when we rely on the team Brands inherited we seem to struggle. Not that Digne, Sidibe, Richarlison or Mina were standout performers in a poor display.

We need to sign Rabiot or someone like him. Doucouré would help as well. Delph (brands signing) came on the pitch and looked out of place, casually playing side-ways Man City style passes when the clock was ticking to the game's conclusion and more urgency was needed.

We should have thumped that Liverpool side, we went out and played the shirt, not the players. And that was disgraceful. I'm still a fan of Silva, and I think this performance highlights that our problems were much more than of his making. However, if Silva was in charge, you could expect token signings in January, not much to change. Ancelotti is different. He looked livid on the sidelines, and I expect that he will have been straight on the phone to Moshiri and demanded major signings.

Warnings about the possibility of terminal decline abounded but lunatics had taken over the asylum as the grotesque indignity of an Everton manager dictating terms for his exit rather than having his locker cleared played out.

When Goodison applauded the shenanigans I realised the club I had supported since the early 60s had gone.

The midfield is terrible. The problem is they’re all midway through massive contracts with no sell on value.

They chose to let a bunch of young inexperienced lads embarrass them in front of thousands of their own fans and live on national TV. Those players wearing blue were a disgrace yesterday, a total disgrace.

They should sacrifice a months wages and apologise for their attitude, lack of effort and ineptitude. They won’t, because they don’t care and their attitudes stink.

We have a bungling owner who knows sod all about football who has appointed Brands to Board level and asks Brands what’s the problem, have we got decent players or is it down to our coach? The guy in charge of player recruitment blames the coach. Surprise surprise.

Our club is sick from top to bottom. Vested self interest of Brands, players and agents taking advantage of Moshiri’s football incompetence.

Ancelotti must be wondering what on earth has he walked into. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he left on his own accord, no compo but reputation still intact so he can work at a proper club.

As I understood things Stekelenburg was due to move out somewhere as a GK Coach. We then got Jonas Lossl from Huddersfield on a free but, he was remunerated handsomely with a wage increase.

Since then, I have rarely seen Lossl on the bench even, Stek being preferred as back up on the bench. Is Lossl injured? Or what?

They have announced record losses recently, no wonder, when they are blowing money right left and centre!

"If you want to be a Liverpool player, you have to respect the principles of this club. We cannot always play the best football in the world but we can fight like nobody else. And as long as we use our principles, we will be a difficult opponent to play against."

Stekelenburg is out of contract in the summer, Derek. There was rumours he would be sold so he could take up a player coach role. It would not surprise me that he is to become a goalkeeper coach at Everton. The guy has seen it all and done it all, not least he played in the World Cup final in 2010. We've retained Alan Kelly for now.

Remember, Alan Kelly was brought in to be Everton's temporary coach when Unsworth had a run at the first team. Unsworth then took him into the u23 setup when he lost the job to Allardyce who immediately brought his own guy in. Ferguson then took him on after Hugo Oliveira was booted out with Silva. Hugo being a highly rated keeper coach who worked with Ederson (of Man City) at Benfica and was instrumental in persuading Portgual's u18 European cup winning goalkeeper (Joao Virginia) to move here from Arsenal.

I've no idea how good Kelly is, but the fact that Unsworth took him on as he was out of work and could come in at short notice, hardly fills you with confidence. If he's not up to it, maybe Stek is in line for a coaching role here?

As for Lossl, he's fallen out of favour with Silva's departure. He's not injured. Stek is clearly fancied by Ferguson and maybe he's persuaded Ancelotti that he is better than Lossl? Don't forget that whilst we might think of Stekelenburg as being about 45, he is only 37, so not too old for a keeper. Southall, Martyn and Howard were all in goal for us at the same age.

Right sport on the quote. But it was Gary Player.

Now he was a competitor. Wonder if he's busy between now and May. I know he's in his eighties now but some of that shower yesterday played as if they were too.

We need to ditch this playing out from the back with one striker up front rubbish which all foreign managers seem obsessed with. We should be playing around the opposition's box, not our own, and getting the ball in quickly for two strikers to contest. Back to basics, as Duncan did, is all that will work with this squad.

Hopefully Don Carlo will be a great manager for us. I just wish we could have kept him on ice til the summer and continued with Don Duncan in the interim. I think the big fella would have had a few choice words to say after the game. Theo Walcott for one would have gone home with a dead pigeon up his arse.

Carlo said he's basically had no time training due to the quick turnaround in games. I doubt he's watched tonnes of our games the last few years. So he probably (wrongly) assumed with England's number 1, two French internationals, a star CB from the world cup and the Irish captain that it would be safe to assume they had the requisite skills to play out from the back. Now he knows.

Now that Carlo is here, I am behind him. I do think it's good to have his experience and tough skin. I imagine it will be an exasperating six months for him though until maybe we have more cash to spare next summer.

This is the lowest point in the club's history in my lifetime. When Everton hit rock bottom, they pull out the sticks of dynamite and try to tunnel deeper. We didn't lose to Liverpool Reserves — it was the kids the 3rd string — and Ancelotti presided over it, Marco Silva fashion.

There are no positives for our fans any more. Each season deals another crushing blow more devastating than the previous crushing blow. I got slated on here 2 years ago for stating Pickford was useless and he is useless. The rest of them even worse. I can already see the flaws in Ancelotti. I can see the gormless expression that Silva had when thinking "Why isn't the Gylfi and Morgan routine working?"

Ancelotti fucked up massively but we should never've appointed him. For me, Carlo is on the same route down as Mourinho. Once brilliant... but 10 years past their prime. More money wasted on a mercenary. What was wrong with Big Dunc, FFS??

But enough about the managers, Everton's players were also garbage.

As for Ancelotti, no, he has not either. You only need to watch him on the sidelines going mad when we have the ball to see this. It's not FIFA on the playstation. He does not control the players. He may give them instructions, but they do what they want when they cross the white line.

The problem Silva faced is too many of them are untouchable. Namely Gylfi Sigurdsson. We cannot afford to put a player like him in our reserves and let him pick up around £130,000 per week without playing. He also needs to play to help us try to move him on. What made it worse last season is he had a habit of doing nothing for 80 minutes and doing enough in 10 minutes to make himself look great on Match of the Day. Often scoring crucial goals, and being joint top scorer with 14. This season the 10 minute flash has become a minute or so.

Ancelotti is a strong enough character that he won't take any shit. He can just put Sigurdsson in reserves and let him rot. Whereas Moshiri might have been on the phone to Silva and demanding he play or take better care of his £50m investment, it'll be the other way round with Ancelotti who should be demanding a better player for the money spent.

In summary, Carlo Ancelotti was not instructing them to play it out from the back. That's a hangover from Silva's tactics, but the constant fannying about going side to side is on the players and their lack of ideas, confidence and willingness to take responsibility.

Likewise, on a few other threads, I've seen a few comments along the lines of, when things are going good these players are great and have potential. Conversely, the argument goes, when things go bad the Negative Nancy's come out, and the players are all shite.

This got me thinking, who is actually good, and who is actually poor? Who should we discard and who, finances, age, and all of it being a factor, should we keep / who is "good"?

Pickford - Keep him. Great shot stopper. Nutter, but you can't have everything.

Coleman - Keep. Consumate veteran leadership.

Keane - keep if only to defend, discard if any future has us playing a high line, and we shouldn't be playing a high line, so offload.

Holgate. Keep.

Mina - Keep

Digne - Keep

Schneiderlin - Terrible offload ASAP

Delph - Too injury prone, offload

Davies - Keep

Sigurdsson - Past his prime, offload

Bernard - Keep

Iwobe - Keep

Richarlison - Keep. The one player with some real talent.

Walcott - Past his prime, offload

DCL - Keep

Kean - Keep

That's 16 players listed (did I miss anyone??). The rest are offload sans Gbamin and Gomes, they're Keep status.

Basically, for me, we are where we were, at the beginning of last summer's transfer window. We need to dump a lot of players out of Everton.

Once we do that, Carlo, through Marcel, can bring in 2-3 impact signings, and I think our fortunes will change.

CB, two central midfielders, and a striker. The rest will improve around quality, and under Carlo's watchful raised brow.

And this needs to be done quickly. We just splunked how many millions to sign Carlo? We need to bite the bullet and offload dead weight at a loss if need be. Schneids, Siggy, Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, etc. They have to be cleared off the books. We need to cut the cord from the last 4 years for Carlo to move forward.

I spent a bit of time over New Year putting together a TW piece basically on my disappointment that Moshiri has allowed the organisational culture he inherited to continue. Knowing that this would elicit righteous indignation from the Terrys and those who brook no criticism of the way the club as a business operates, and also to avoid the usual charge that criticism only appears when we’re losing I decided to wait for a good win before submitting it.

When I realised a few days before that Klopp was going to field his B team I thought ok this is a good time, the morning after a derby win at the dark side. How wrong I was in that assumption! The article will have to wait for a while, methinks.

It does irritate me though that if someone like me could see what Klopp intended why did we need to select two right backs, for example? I know we have injuries but surely this was a time for a bolder, attacking team and set-up. I could highlight other poor selections but this one stood out for me, especially when, against a team of hungry, skilful young players, our best right back is playing in the Bundesliga.

Sad thing about last night is none of the kids for Liverpool are making it in the premiership either.

The defenders continued to try to play from the back but the RS high press didn't allow that. Along with the SAS gping missing, they'd nowhere to go except long.

We needed to adapt and change to 442 immediately and aim the diagonal balls at DCL for knockdowns. That wouldve forced LPL back and put pressure on their young defender.

Football is a simple game, but we make it look so hard.

So much of the Brands era has been defined by the fact that he is clearing up Walsh's mess. We cannot offload Sigurdsson or Schneiderlin. No one will buy them and take on their immense wages. We're stuck with them. This has been the biggest problem of the Brands era. Being stuck with players they don't want, because of inflated wages, and being forced to balance the books.

Contrast that with the Walsh era and the spend, spend, spend approach. Want a number 10? let's buy 3 of them! Brands cannot be judged until he can get the handcuffs off that he has had placed on him by the financial restrictions caused by Walsh's recklessness.

Dunno, if I would have signed all the players that Brands signed, but most of them are good players, and most of them were for less than the amounts Walsh was pouring down the drain. Delph being the only one I thought was a poor signing.

Ultimately though, I still think Brands' inability to sign a Zouma replacement was a massive reason that Silva's Everton lost so many games. So, he is not above major criticism from me.

I remember the Moyes team that came 4th getting carved open by a much better Arsenal team of kids, in a league cup-tie at Highbury, and although you could see that natural talent was ingrained in quite a few of them, maybe you are right about those Liverpool kids because history hasn’t been kind to those Arsenal youngsters who gave a much stronger Everton team, a massive football lesson that night.

I think the saddest thing about yesterday is that it will happen again, unless everything about our recruitment is restructured?

They should show a video of that game to all levels of our coaching staff. I certainly like to know what they do at Finch Farm.

And Tony @255, I was in Highbury that night, Tommy Grav scored. Where are any of that Arsenal team now? Probably playing on Hackney Marshes.

That leaves Richarlison and Gomes as successful signings.

The jury's still out on Brands for me.

The biggest problem with the players we have is their mentality. We have too many “confidence” players.

Almost the same team managed great results against big teams in the back half of last season when things were going well. I don’t doubt our players are all technically gifted professionals who can compete with the best on their day. I just see no fight or passion from these players and it’s so frustrating to watch!

For me the biggest failure in signing players has been the total disregard for the players character. For all of his flaws (and I believe there were many) Moyes signed players that would fight for our club, players who were proud to put the shirt on.

Going forward, we should be looking to sign players who want to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and influence it! We need players who play with passion and determination who hate losing. Most of the players didn’t even seem bothered when we lose.

He was good against Leicester, but he’s never anything less than good with the ball at his feet, which is presumably why Ancelotti played Schniederlin over Davies, because he thinks Tom gives it away too much?

Our players are mentally week, our players who are used to playing one game a week, have now played 9 matches in 34 days without very little rotation, but this is not an excuse because I’m sure if that game had been at Goodison, Everton would have won quite easily, which shows me were we are lacking the most, and this won’t change until certain players are banished forever.

I'd agree and would also suggest a very decent replacement for Walcott's position. I'd suggest that a good, new striker needs good delivery from out wide as well as from midfield.

Just two or three (preferably four) really good signings could make a massive change to this team.

I'd say the £130k / week is a sunk cost. If there is somebody better to put in his place, then we should do it, for the better. Emphasis on IF!

We might literally have to pay someone to take them on?!

Sandro, Niasse, Martina wouldn’t get in a League 2 team but are in massive wages!

Siggy and Sneiderlinn are on 6 figures a week! They cost over £65m. They are both about 30! We couldn’t give them away!

Walcott has a name that might attract China or the US but would he go there ? £5m tops!!

Tosun might attract teams in Turkey but on his wages we’d have to pay him to go!

I’d send Sidebe back straight away and get JJK back in!

Personally I’d keep Digne, Richarlison, Gomes, Mina but they are the only ones who might get money for!

I read the Sig sale rumor in a few tabloids. It makes sense that Carlo would want to sell him. However, who would buy him? 31 y/o on 100k plus a week, midway through a 5 year contract. So he's due another 12 million at least in wages from Everton. Presumably, Everton would want some kind of fee. Even if we sold him for 20 percent of what we paid, then a club is looking at 20 million plus just to cover wages we already would owe the guy and a "nominal" fee. Who could afford that who would actually want Sig? I am thinking he could do a job of sorts at say Rangers, an MLS team, maybe a weaker CL team. But none of them have that kind of dosh.

They do not have the ability to pass out from the back when pressed, one excuse is I suppose is that Gomez and Gbamin are both out injured and it may be different with them in the team.
The simple truth is that most of our squad are not good enough to be top six players I don't care who our managers is.

Its grit your teeth till the end of the season and hope that we can sign 3 or 4 players of real quality in the summer.

I did say we couldn't afford to sack him and I don't mean in a financial way. Of course, that's not really correct, because I don't think we could afford any compensation package for Carlo and his backroom team if we are led to believe his salary of £11M is true.

I hate what has happened over the last number of years but I don't have any other option than to remain a Blue. I could take up fishing. Nah. I hate fish

Digne certainly doesn’t look happy this season, I spotted early on in the season at home to Wolves when Traore kept on toasting him that it rammed home my belief from last season that he’s quite a mediocre defender but had (last year a good left peg).

This season he’s been woeful and I don’t like the attitude of him constantly throwing his arms up in the air, but my biggest annoyance is the stupid free kicks he’s continuously gives away, reminds me last season at Millwall.

Baines for me is still even now a better footballer as we witnessed at Newcastle and the Leicester game too.

Leighton would have been the man for me yesterday.

I won’t blame Ancelotti but he does need to accept some responsibility for yesterday’s performance as he picked players that we have known for a long time to be utter shite.

Answer: There weren't any. Maybe one or two that could be blamed at least partially on Keane, or the Keane/Mina combination. But "many" games? Sorry, that's ridiculous. And I would point out that Mina's current partner, Holgate, was always available to Silva. He wouldn't use him.

When are you going to accept that Silva simply sucked? He sucked as a strategist, sucked as a game manager, sucked as a motivator. Even accounting for all the other contributing factors you have so eagerly pointed out both before and after his departure, the simple fact is that by far the most "massive" reason for Marco Silva's failure was... Marco Silva.

We started with Walsh and Koeman and ended up with 3 number 10s the last one costing £45 million. We also signed we were led to believe the next top striker from Spain in Sandro and are still paying most of his £100,000 per week. This was also the time when we sold Deulofeu and have not replaced his goals or assists from out wide. We have never replaced Lukaku and sold the 1st or 2nd highest goalscorer in the Premier league for £75 million.
After appointing Allardyce who in his short tenure bought Walcott and Tosun for over £50 million between them. Neither good enough for a team aspiring to compete at the top end of the table. Then onto Silva and Brands and we have been told that Brands wanted to bring in a younger type player. So he buys Mina, Digne, Gomes all decent enough players, but he was also responsible in selling Gana Gueye our stand out player from last season. Who covered more ground than any other player in the Premier league but Brands decided it was good business to sell him to PSG. Then Brands decides we need a striker to help young DCL and everybody was saying yes thats what we need an experienced Centre Forward, but instead of Dzeko or Costa he spends £30 million on a 19 year old kid like Dominic and this was a kid who spoke very little English and trying to learn in one of the hardest leagues to play in. Brands also brought in Bernard to play in the front 3 you can count on 1 hand how many goals and assists he has.

So the argument about Brands being better than Walsh is irrelevant they are both superfluous, and at what cost. Ancelotti doesnt need someone like Brands to tell him what players he will buy for the team. Let Brands liaise between the youth set up and also moving on players Ancelotti doesnt want. But surely if we have learned one thing from this DOF experiment and that is in this country it doesnt work, if you employ a world class manager let him dictate what players he needs, not what a won nothing DOF suggests.

Yeah I have to agree with Joe. The players performance levels dropped hugely for that Arsenal game. It seemed like Dunc was able to muster a response for a couple of games but then they reverted to type. Bottom line is the core group of mentally weak and cowardly folks have failed to perform under Ron, Silva, Sam, Unsie, Dunc and Carlo. Sam and Dunc squeezed a bit extra out of them by absolving them of passing responsibilities and going direct. But under both Sam and Dunc they found a way to be crap towards the end even when there was zero expectation of playing good football.

The fans are unlikely to voice their support, when they are subjected to that what they witnessed yesterday, they were more than anything embarrassed about the team they have supported home and away in all weathers, having produced the worst display, and against our fiercest rivals to boot.

It has to be a two-way relationship, agreed, but it should start from the players, if they put a shift in the supporters will be vocal and encourage them to the hilt.

Just over 13 months ago we went across the park, played their first team and were unlucky not to come away with a deserved 0 - 0 draw. It seems like a lifetime ago today.

Siggi says they couldn't even go over to the fans at the end because "all the players are different people and where very disappointed to lose the game the way they did" — my heart bleeds.

Well, Siggi, why don't you and most of the other fuckin' cowards go down the tunnel and keep going, you shower of shit houses.

Anthony #267, may I join you in apologising to younger Blues? I think of my own two lads and all of you Dads who’ve mentioned your sons and daughters; they know we did the right thing as our Dads did for us, they would not have it any other way, but they deserve better than this. Stop being Mr Nice Guy, EFC, get some leaders who don’t like losing, both on the pitch and in the boardroom.

He did try to arrange a loan with an option to buy. Option.

That is not to say our transfers under Brands are perfect, Iwobi particularly strikes as waste of money. Delph also has been greatly disappointing.

But Mina is a top quality centre back, Digne is a top quality left back, despite his current form, Gomes for 20 million is a good midfielder. GBamin we have no idea, and Kean is looking his age, but both can still have a future.

But the weight around our squads shoulders are Walcott, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, and to a lesser extent Keane. All signed by previous regimes, combined fee of around 140-150 million, on contacts similar to that of Liverpool's best players.

We are a club in transition, with some too-young players, some too-old players and a need for speed and dynamism, but there is talent in the lineup. We don't need to steer the river through the stables and clean everything out.

We have a world-class manager, a top (in my opinion) DOF and a committed owner who has made some mistakes but corrected them. We also, if the reports are true, have a whole lot more money coming into the club.

And it now seems much more likely than not that we will be playing in a gorgeous new stadium in a couple of seasons.

I'm as pissy about yesterday as anybody, and it's a whole lot easier for me than most of you to deal with the aftermath, since I don't live on Merseyside and didn't have to go to work with the obnoxious RS fans this morning (there isn't a Red within a hundred miles to give me stick). But the fact is, this is still a great club with great support and terrific prospects for the future, and I'm trying to use that to keep yesterday in perspective.

I think he's bought better players than his predecessor, but he doesn't buy ones that score goals, he doesn't buy the characters we're crying out for.

I hope at this transfer meeting today, Carlo makes it crystal clear what we need right now.

The call for going back to life without a Director of Football won't be heeded, Brands may or not be any use but can he be blamed for players suddenly turning to the brown stuff as soon as they don an Everton kit? The wholesale moving out of players, won't happen either, so that can be forgotten as an option.

We are where we are and it's up to the people running the club to sort out the mess. First thing they should do, is to investigate why the indivdual players are unable to do the basics with any consistency and ask them why they don't seem to function as a team. The players are capable of doing it, because we've seen them do it, not often but we have seen it.

Staying up is the only thing on the agenda today, how we do it, who helps us to do it, that doesn't matter, but do it we must.

Brent #302, I knew you'd catch the reference, being such a classic guy yourself.

Anyway, part of the film I enjoyed was the interview with Kevin Ratcliffe, following the injury to Adrian Heath. The retribution taken out on Brian Marwood for his horrendous challenge on "Inchy", not just in that game against Sheff.Wed, but also in future games for whatever team Marwood was playing for. As Rats said, we would always look after our team mates out on the pitch. How true that was, unlike today, when most of our team seem too scared to throw in a challenge and, while not intentionally hurt an opponent, at least let them know you are around. We seem more concerned by an opponent being injured and trying to help him up!

Join # 303. You always seem to do well against me in the Head to Head league we have. You don't even look at your team from one week to the next, but still beat me when we meet.😞😞😞

The desperation felt by anyone connected with this club was (imo), so avoidable.. WTF was he thinking playing Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson in the middle of the park ?

The German surprised nobody when he named a bunch of kids, He hadn`t even tried to keep it a secret. The people in our camp MUST have known. wat they would face.
These RS kids havent yet made the grade, some of them probably never will. The only thing we could have been absolutely certain of was that they would bring a high degree of energy...so we match them up with one of the most pedestrian midfield partnerships the premier league has seen ? I still cant take it in.

Tom Davies has been thrown in against some of the best midfield players in the league in recent weeks. He may not have always come out on top, but he has held his own. This game was crying out for him. His opponents may have been his peers but he is vastly more experienced than them. he`s accomplished more than them. How we can ask him to play against the best adn most experienced, then deny him the opportunity to show his metal against lesser experienced players is beyond me.
The same goes for Mason Holgate. He has acquitted himself so well against vastly more experienced, hardened players when asked to step into midfield. Why didnt we have these two matching their energy ?. . . And whats all this two right back lark ?.. Why on earth didnt he play Richarlison wide right. we know he can play there.
Why didnt we give young Kean a start against players his own age ? We have repeatedly asked this kid to compete with vastly experienced arl arsed center halves, but we don't give him a chance to build his confidence against lesser players of his own age ? What the fuck is all that about ?

I accept Ancelotti has only been here a short while. I accept he has to be given time to turn this basket case of a club around, I accept and agree with every world Lyndon pens when he is hammering the players. but none of that should mean we should afford Ancelotti immunity from any blame or accountability.

He fucked up big time with his selection last night and he should be called on it

There is not a lot more that can be written about the disgraceful, even cowardly performance from a bunch of players who have the cheek to call themselves professionals. The thing that sickens me is these overpaid, under performing rubbish that come out the next day, after shaming the badge of Everton F.C. saying they will improve in the next game. What kind of a statement is that, you pick and choose games you play well in. No you are paid to do a job and perform to the best of your abilities every time you go on the pitch to represent Everton F.C.

Ancelloti must have got his eyes opened by the lack of effort especially in the 2nd half to the huge job he has gotten himself into, and win or loose this weekend don't even allow some of the poorer players from last night to even be on the subs bench.

Lucas Digne and Yerry Mina came from Barcelona but both played like it was the Ecuadorian team.
Gylfi Sigurdsson cost £40 million. He can’t run. It physically pains him to run.
Pickford is a great shot-stopper and a wonderful presence in goal but has to ask old ladies to reach stuff on the top shelf for him in Tesco.
Seamus Coleman hasn’t been the same since the leg break,
Mason Holgate looks every bit a quality player until he inexplicably passes the ball to the opposition four times in a row
and Richarlison loses his head the moment he realises his teammates are all useless. Which happens a lot.
Djibril Sidibe looks more Serge Aurier than Serge Aurier, which isn’t a great sign, but was at least the only Everton player to go over to the away fans at the end of the game.
You could put an office swivel chair in midfield instead of Morgan Schneiderlin and you honestly wouldn’t notice the difference.

1) we are permanently a club in transition
2)The some too old are roughly the same age as Leicesters leaders and talismen (Evans Schmiecal Vardy)
while the some too young dido (Maddison,Tielemans,Soyuncu)
3)We don't have a world class manager, we have a former world class manager
4)We have a DOF who spent over 100 million this summer and made the squad considerably worse with not one of his six signings being a clear success, some failures and some unlucky/undecided
5) We have an owner who swaps between ideologies and managers at the drop of a hat and hasn't a clue what he is doing.

I genuinely don't mean this to have a go but I'm more worried about our club now than I ever was under Kenwright, Moyes and Martinez. We were skint, we were proud, we had our moments but we were Everton. I don't know who these fuckers who are playing for us and I don't trust those at the top end to make it any better soon.

Similar situation now. I’m not a fan of Brands and would rather he wasn’t here, but if there is one way he could prove himself it would be somehow negotiate a few deals for players (Schneiderlin, siggy, Keane, Bolasie, Tosun, Walcott) and free up some wages for younger hungrier players.

We need to stop throwing money at it and only sign players with care and diligence. Actually build a team and squad.

And I know exactly what he's thinking: "They asked me to polish a turd while I was there and now they're asking Ancelotti! He'll be gone in a season!"

Serious question.

We have to make changes that much is a certainty but with who ?

Davies ? Possibly.
Gordon ? Adeniran ? Gibson ?

Mods. If his should be on a different thread then feel free to move it, thanks.

Most of us embraced the majority of players we've signed over the past few years and waxed lyrical about them. All of the previous managers had to pay over the odds in either wages or fees, to get them to sign for Everton, because like it or not, that's where we are in the pecking order.

What really pisses me off though, are those posters who come on TW and write how they've never liked, (insert manager/player) and they've been proved right because they're (insert adjective/expletive). Seriously, what is the point of their scribblings?

Then we have the sell them all rants, for God's sake, how do we do that? Most of our players have at least a couple of years to run on their contract, how do we get other teams to buy our rubbish?

Every purchase of a new player is a roll of the dice, put our low confidence and fear of fucking up even more into the mix and you've got a recipe for disaster. We're at that point now.

I haven't got the answers, I'm praying that Mr Ancelloti has. I've read a couple of decent posts, that realistically reflects our situation, but one that stood out was where the author reminded everyone, through the tale of his grandfather who supported LFC, that he had to live in Everton's shadow for years, before he tasted success. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where we are right now.

This wasn't the worst game in my memory. I'm spoiled for choice as to what game that might be, and it would be too much mental effort to isolate any one game.

As to getting stick from reds, well, for fuck sake, that's part and parcel of being a Blue living in Liverpool. You either hide away, or give back as good as you're given, there's no point in complaining about having to face them the next day. You can just get hardened to it, I know, because I have.

Sunday is now history. The next game is the next game. As Big Dunc said when he took over, we take one game at a time, and do not dwell on what's been or what might be. We have a new manager, supposedly a top one, which most of us have been craving for. So let's see how he can sort this lot out and make them worthy of wearing the same colours that were worn by Labone, Ball, Kendall and Reid.

We were still several players away from having a full deck before the dreadful long term injuries that have totally disconnected our front from our back since the beginning of the season.

The players we have are not as terrible as they appear sometimes. There are a couple who seem to have lost their legs but circumstances force them into the side.

A couple of signings this month and we should stabilize a little but we are still going to be a mid table side. But we will be going in the right direction.

As far as continuing development it will probably help long term to not qualify for Europa. Bring some players in, get a system down and benefit from a real pre-season next year. I can’t help but think that the really poor pre-seasons lately have at least contributed to some of the injuries that have plagued us in recent years. We are not fit enough.

Schniederlin should be nowhere near this team, as of at least 2 years ago,
I know we are limited to experienced midfielders at present, this can be the only reason he gets a game.

Walcott is not good enough, never was, is a chicken without a head, if anything ever "comes off for him" its luck, and he never meant it.

Siggy is a "free role" player, whether that is something we can afford or not I'm not sure. He setup the Walcott chance, where he miss controlled it for DCL to strike early on in the game, Siggy also took the freekick that created the Holgate chance, had they both been converted that would of been his contribution and anything else would of been forgotten. He is not a box to box midfielder. id guess he was picked again purely because of our limited options.

Pickford, in my opinion can be blamed partly for the goal, as it was he who tried to kick the ball 30 yards into central midfield giving the ball away (Countless times) for them to score, and if it didn't go to an opponent, it went into touch.

im gonna take the RS game as a blessing in disguise, maybe it will be an eye opener for Ancelotti. Had we won it convincingly none of the problems would have come to light.

But trying to pitch that message when he is 2 weeks in the job runs the risk of making readers dismiss everything you write because of the absurdity of that statement. Sure he screwed up trusting the same rank senior pros who have dragged this team down for 4 years, but he didnt win all those trophies by not being able to see what is before his eyes.

If you follow @theesk on Twitter or www.theesk.com, Paul explains it far better than me, but that's the gist of it.

Klopp and the RS decided to give Everton a free pass to the 4th round of the FA cup. Box ticked. A win at Anfield as well. Box fucking ticked. Even the bookies made Everton favourites to win this game, I mean City were better odds than us to win at Anfield. So, box fucking ticked again.

Enter stage Everton's first 11 and the RS's mixture of 2nd, 3rd and backup first team players. Well Agatha Christie could not have written a better script finishing with Klopp laughing his socks off as he watched us trying to score, defend and pass the ball.

The bottom of the barrel has finally been fucking reached, so Siggy, Walcott and Schniiiidereline, thank you. Now fuckoff.

Don't get me wrong - he is a top manager but you cannot absolve him of any blame because of that. I can only imagine the stick that someone like Moyes or Allardyce would be getting if they had stood by and allowed a result like that to happen!

I don't think anyone needs an ITK fibber to tell them we can't just keep spending unless we bring investments in.

If you listen to the Podcast, they have repeatedly queried what Moshiri is up top and how he is raising capital. They thought there would be a shares issue. They need the AGM so questions can be asked and answers can be given. Of course the accounts will be presented and then the trio can work out what exactly has happened from the last set and explain it to us.

To call the Esk an ITK fibber is wrong.

The only prediction I saw him make was to say that Zaha would not be signed as we could not afford him on FFP. He was proved wrong when we bid, but right when we did not increase the bid.

I am at work with people right now who have seen exactly the same from him. Its points for podcasts these days and Paul along with that John fella don't tell you anything the Echo doesn't tell you.

I cannot believe you are not aware of his fame for 'watch this space' kind of talk.

Yes Martin that is great if they actually are "in the know"(which is cringey and fame hunting) or if they actually tell you something you couldn't research yourself.

Tell you what Steve, why dont you tweet -what is the Esk like on twitter etc and watch the reaction. I'd bet my life you hear what i am telling you.

I try to be straight and true to everyone Steve and I would meet you and the Esk in The Oak and tell it exactly as I see it but also be civilised and genuine.

I heard he agreed to let them in for a meeting as they were threatening to come back mob-handed unless their voices could be heard.

They were ushered into a meeting room away from players and manager and gave vent to frustrations about 4 players in particular (Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun) being high earners but offering nothing.

Brands heard them out without voicing an opinion either way but said his hands were tied due to FFP.

I'm surprised they were allowed in TBH.

When I started supporting Everton, seems like centuries ago now, it never crossed my mind that we would become a laughing stock and would go trophyless, hopeless and clueless in such a short (relatively) time.

Since then;
Led Real to 3rd place in a traditional 2 horse race
Won the German title with a significant diminished margin in a 1 horse race and was sacked after a poor start and unrest over fitnesss.
Took Napoli from a title challenging team to 8th place.

Some TW have argued for reasons for these declines but they are as real as his successes.

Steve I will ask you a few hypotheticals:
1- if Ancelotti was appointed Barcas new coach instead of us would you have raised an eyebrow (excuse the pun)?
2-why did a mediocre Arsenal hierarchy turn their nose up at a world class manager who was available,no payoff, wanted the job,has a residence and has a reputation for organising defences and harmonising big egos?
3-do you consider Alexis Sanchez world class? 3-4 years ago he was competing with Aguero and Hazard as the best in the PL and he can still win a title this year?
4-Could a clearly non world class manager like Koeman have done what Ancelotti has with the resources he had over the last 4 or 5 years considering what he is doing with his country?

Mike@361: Maybe it's 'showdown time' and very soon a number of these players will be gone.

I am gutted I never went with the lads at Finch Farm now.

Each to their own but I am worried 4 or 5 players that we need will down tools. Bit of an understatement as some seem to have already done that but you get my theory.

Andrew #368. Yes, fingers crossed we do bring in another GK who can come in and be a strong No.2 or a replacement for Jordan Pickford. I'd buy Jack Butland. He's still at Stoke. Wouldn't cost the world and would push Pickford to up his game and stop the fucking about with his kicking.

Sorry read back through the thread and found references to Brands talk.

Gavin we can always tell him if he was good enough for City he should still be there.

That should be his mentality but he seems to be coming from some deluded superstar angle.

He needed bringing down to earth and the chat I read with the fan, the fan was spot on and had more class than Delph.

https://www.facebook.com/FootballFanCast/videos/kaiser-who-was-the-conman-/489087248263524/