Lucas Digne failed to make this one
Everton play the second of four successive games against so-called “big six” clubs as Manchester United come to Goodison Park on Sunday.
Ancelotti makes five changes for the game. Sidibe, Delph, Mina and Iwobi all step down to the bench with Kean now partnering Holgate, with Walcott, Gomes and Davies starting in midfield. Lucas Digne is still out injured, and Morgan Schneiderli on the path to recovery after his knee operation last week.
Everton kicked off towards the Park End and tried to press, Richarlison getting an early knock on his knee in a strong challenge. As De Gea dawdled a little long on a clearance, Calvert-Lewin ran in and the ball banged off his raised ankle and straight into the net. Fantastic!
Keane spotted Calvert-Lewin from the restart and launched a perfect pass for him to run onto, but as ever, true to form, Calvert-Lewin tried to sidefoot the ball past De Gea when a firm and purposeful shot was required. Such a poor miss after such a brilliant piece of work for the opening goal.
At the other Matic lashed a shot onto the bar with Pickford well beaten. Richarlison was next to make space in behind the red-and-black lines but Walcott's path to the ball was blocked.
Martial was allowed time to collect and turn in the Dee but drove the ball across goal and well wide. However, Everton insisted on playing dangerously in defence, Matic lashing a fearsome ground shot that Pickford was well equal to with a fine diving punch away.
Gomes and Davies were looking to play some lovely 'vertical' passes to break through the lines but they weren't going all the way through. At the other end, a fine cross in by Fred bounced high off Greenwood's head, but could have posed more danger.
Gomes did brilliantly to pick the pocket of Fernandes and dribble well into the Man Utd area, only to be thwarted by Matic. Baines was tested by Wan-Bissaka but came off best.
A Baines free-kick found Richarlison but he was powerfully blocked by Shaw. There was not much happening but Coleman went down with a knee problem and signalled a change immediately, Sidibé replacing him.
Martial was found very easily but Sidibe was across well to block it out for a corner. But for far too long during the first half, Man Utd were dictating the game in Everton's half. Pickford did well on a couple of aerial balls, Maguire trying to do an Origi. But Fernandes picked the ball up off a poor bit of play out the back from Sidibe and, from a long way out, lashed it past Pickford at the near post far too easily.
Richarlison felt his knee again and stayed down while the play carried on, then needed plenty of treatment before he hobbled to the side. When he finally returned to the field, Lindelof bundled into him heavily.
Calvert-Lewin got booked for sliding in on Luke Shaw, Davies then got involved and Shaw got booked for his reaction. Davies then saw a yellow due a late challenge as it all became a bit scrappy and a bit silly. Maguire was next to see yellow, catching Calvert-Lewin.
A moment of quality from Baines who launched a fantastic cross, Richarlison's track 'adjusted' sufficiently by Shaw to deny the Everton man scoring.
Sigurdsson gave away a free-kick that did not threaten, as Everton struggled to impose themselves on proceedings, Fernandes getting another look at Pickford's goal. Calvert-Lewin did well to force a corner out of Lindelof, but what was in Sigurdsson's mind with his ridiculous lofted corner was anyone's guess.
Walcott tried in vain to make something of an attacking ball, as little to nothing was clicking for the Blues. When they did get the ball, it was sporadic and disjointed, rather than fluid or smooth.
But Calvert-Lewin did very well to draw the foul off Lindelof, off the corner of the Man Utd area. Sigurdsson casually smacked the post and Richarlison was off-balance, unable to follow up.
But some more coherent play saw Sidibe win a corner that Baines rather wasted with a low delivery. Calvert-Lewin cashed a good ball forward but this time Lindelof had the measure of him. Retreating, Keane did well to block Martial. Fernandes almost dribbled through half the Everton team until Davis blocked his goalbound shot, with Bernard replacing Walcott for the last half-hour.
Richarlisonstruggled to shoot on goal but won a corner that Maguire put behind, but none of Everton's corners could be described as 'threatening'. Calvert-Lewin got a chance to chase down a ball over the top but drove his shot at the near post and De Gea's outstretched leg.
Fred was livid when called for handball for a ball that rolled up his thigh, screaming at the ref for giving him a very wrong yellow card. But it was another chance for Sigurdsson from a set-piece in a perfect position, clipped casually off the top of the wall and away this time.
Gomes won another corner off Matic, Baines this time delivering it very well but somehow it was cleared behind. His next corner was headed away by the commanding head if Maguire and it was a footrace up the other end where Baies did very well to put a fine cross from Fred into the Park End.
Sidibe then went full tilt into the advertising signage. At the other end, Fernandes had a soft pop at goal. Sidibe came back on without the referee's permission and the play was stopped to give him a yellow card. Kean then replaced Gomes, who had shown some nice touches now and again.
Everton won yet another corner but this time Maguire kept Kean down with his arms. apparently allowed if you are wearing a red shirt. Richarlison rounded two defenders but could only win another corner, Lindelof claiming this one as Davies fouled De Gea.
Fernandes got loose but somehow Ppickford pawed it away, only into the path of Ighalowho had an open goal but amazingly Pickford threw himself infront of Ighalo and saved the certain goal.
Chaos at the other end, as Richarlison misses a shot then Sigurdsson sees his shot saved but the Calvert-Lewin's shot deflected off Maguire, and rolls inside the post, with Sigurdsson on the ground, pulling his legs away to avoid it, but still adjudged to have been interfering with play in an offside position.
Yet another corner deep into added time again headed behind and summing up the second half in a nutshell, that too failed to find the net. Ancellotti was mad enough to challenge the ref and saw red for his understandable reaction to the crazy disallowed goal.
Scorers:Calvert-Lewin (1'); Fernandes (31')
Everton (4-4-2): Pickford; Coleman (28' Sidibe [Y:80']), Keane, Holgate, Baines; Walcott (63' Bernard), Gomes (81' Kean), Davies [Y:43'], Sigurdsson; Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin [Y:41'].
Subs not Used: Virginia, Delph, Mina, Iwobi.
Manchester United (4-3-3): De Gea; Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire [Y:45'], Shaw [Y:41']; McTominay (72' Mata), Matic, Fred; Bruno Fernandes, Greenwood (72' Ighalo), Martial (89' Williams).
Subs not Used: Bailly, Lingard, Pereira, Romero.
Referee: Chris Kavanagh
Video Assistant Referee: Tom Moss
Reader Comments (265)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:09:23
2 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:20:27
3 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:26:23
Total bias by Sky.
Where's the ex-Everton player/pundit in the Sky studio?
However, I think they will have to give Everton credit after the game, when the goals go in! 2-0.
4 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:28:24
5 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:30:53
6 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:35:40
7 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:42:39
8 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:51:49
9 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:54:58
He's not a Premier League footballer.
10 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:56:14
As an aside, in the associated interview he sounded completely fed up with new deeper role. Like everyone else, I'd have gone with Bernard. Prove us wrong, Sigurdsson!
11 Posted 01/03/2020 at 13:59:13
Not impressed. Best of luck, Blues.
12 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:00:15
Wearing a similar styled shirt as Dixie wore in his heyday, carrying an imitation 'cannon-ball' brown ball he would have played his entire career with.
13 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:00:47
14 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:01:48
15 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:53:30
16 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:54:02
Hopefully we will be sharper in the next half. COYB!
17 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:56:49
What a ricket by De Gea, but returned with interest by Sidibe's loose pass out and Pickford not dealing with a routine shot he should gobble up every day.
After the first 10-15 minutes when we were getting the run on a very shaky looking United defence, they have definitely gained control and played the better football.
Both the midfield and defence look to be dropping too deep to me, giving them space to play in front of us.
When we get the ball, we need to get the ball forward quicker and keep them on the back foot. Even so, Richarlison had a great chance to give us the lead on the stroke of half time.
Could go either way, this.
18 Posted 01/03/2020 at 14:59:25
"I don't need to see that statistic to know that he's not a good goalkeeper."
"But he's the England goalkeeper."
"I don't care, he's not a good goalkeeper."
19 Posted 01/03/2020 at 15:04:19
20 Posted 01/03/2020 at 15:04:28
21 Posted 01/03/2020 at 15:16:59
22 Posted 01/03/2020 at 15:55:00
23 Posted 01/03/2020 at 15:58:58
Jon Moss is an idiot. De Gea totally wrong-footed and beaten, Sigurdsson moves out of the wy his legs, and that's interfering with play??
We got fucked by Jon fucking assface Moss for me.
24 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:00:38
25 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:03:09
Sums him up.
26 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:06:54
Every feckin time it's a 50/50 decision. I am so angry, blatant biased bullshit... so sick of it.
When will we catch a break? Exactly like big Nev said, Why oh why... for fuck's sake... I'm fuming.
27 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:10:27
A disgraceful decision on the disallowed goal but, watching the replay, Sigurdsson should have got off his arse quicker and got onside.
28 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:11:11
Maybe could have nicked it with our over all performance. We need a lot of new players though.
29 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:11:34
However, of two mediocre teams, we were the better, certainly in the second half.
31 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:15:25
32 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:15:30
How can that be offside?
33 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:16:07
Cellphone advised me 2-1 to Everton. Trepidation as text commentary says VAR is checking. A mix of Brazilian and Anglo Saxon expletives follow when it's confirmed it's ruled out.
Can't agree with Michael's headline that it was a drab game. It ebbed and flowed and was very competitive throughout.
It took some time and United looked dangerous on the counter, but I thought we dominated the last 30 minutes.
United defended the dead ball around their area in a way I would like Everton to do: very solidly, even from some good delivery by Baines and Sigurdsson.
The watching Gareth Southgate should have been impressed by 3 young England players: Holgate, our best defender, Davies, our best midfielder, and DCL, our best attacker.
I'll look forward to watching the disallowed goal when I get the chance. AND to see Carlo's rant at the referee.
34 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:18:30
Even Tom Davies played well in the second half. Calvert-Lewin my MotM.
35 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:19:47
A shit result against a shit Manchester United team. Regardless of their form, they are bang ordinary with several horrible players in it.
Again like at Arsenal we shoot ourselves dead with another stupid self-inflicted goal.
I can't be arsed with it.
36 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:20:53
I'd have to disagree with you on Davies, he didn't play well – he needs a season in the Championship
37 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:22:31
38 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:25:10
39 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:29:05
40 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:32:38
The weaknesses in the squad are the players signed by Walsh – Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Pickford and Keane. Plus those players out on loan who we can't give away.
41 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:34:00
Vehemently disagree with you. Tom had an outstanding came today, both offensively and defensively.
He broke up their attacks. Got important blocks and tackles in. Drove us forward time and again. Was head and shoulders the most accurate, inventive and bravest with his passing of our midfielders, both long and short.
Sigurdsson was peripheral. Gomes nowhere near the level he displayed for 30 minutes v Arsenal last week.
Heads or tails for me for who was our MotM between the two best buddies, Tom and Dom.
42 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:36:36
43 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:38:13
44 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:38:47
45 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:42:10
46 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:43:58
I respect your opinion but that's not how I saw it or anyone who I'm at the game with saw it, one of whom played for the club. I do like the lad and think he should spend a season in the Championship.
47 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:45:17
48 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:51:02
Bad error by Pickford not atoned by the second half save – as Roy Keane said, that's what he gets paid for. Baines was shakey first half, Sigurdsson anonymous and should have scored. Theo couldn't trap the ball and contributed nothing which was a shame as he has done much better under Carlo. Andre did fine, feeling his way back in. Best I have seen Tom play for some time-outstanding second half from him with excellent forward passing. Southgate will have been impressed. Richarlison was a threat but MotM was again Calvert-Lewin for a marvellous display of how the modern centre-forward should play.
Much better in the second half but we are so light in midfield. Our two strikers, Tom and Mason really carried the team today and Calvert-Lewin must be the best English centre-forward in the country right now. Well done to the young lads and surely it's time to see if Gordon can join them.
49 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:52:05
Steve 40, On today's matchday thread mentioning Keane with regards getting rid of is harsh. Michael Keane is not my one of my favourites but considering he hasn't been in the team and replacing Mina, I thought we looked a lot more solid than for the last month against decent opposition.
50 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:52:58
The commentators for most games are ex-pros and I can't say I seek out their wisdom either.
51 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:54:13
To me now there is no point in indulging Moss with analysis of his decision but there is plenty of reason to ask why (I think Im right on this) England is the only country where the match referee abdicates responsibility by not making use of the pitch side monitor. Shouldnt UEFA overrule this cowardly unilateral directive of Riley?
I felt sorry for Carlo as his righteous indignation would have increased with the dumb insolence of so-called match officials who just shrugged and said it was nothing to do with them. The incorrect application of VAR by a group of narcissists is killing my interest in professional football.
52 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:55:05
It's no surprise that Liverpool are so far ahead in its first season and it's commonly recognised that they have had a ridiculous number of VAR decisions that have gifted them a huge amount of points.
53 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:55:34
How anyone with eyes to see - be it ex-players or not, Eric, be it match goers or those watching from afar - cannot see how involved and effective Tom Davies was in every aspect of his play in the 2nd half, causes me to raise an Ancelotti-like eyebrow.
Tom and Dom were both superb.
54 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:55:38
He won't be here next season, whether you agree or not.
55 Posted 01/03/2020 at 16:59:16
Very very poor decision by VAR. How can Rugby league get it so right, yet VAR so wrong???
Go to the screen at Rugby League and, if the ref says he believes it's a try, unless they can somehow see something different, they go with the ref's decision and award the try.
56 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:01:44
57 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:02:26
That's almost as much a misjustice as the VAR decision. The game was anything but drab!
58 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:02:26
Jury's out on Pickford, Mina, Digne and Kean (who I think could be a real player). Big rebuilding job for Carlo in the summer.
Oh and why didn't Sigurdsson just get to his feet and try to get onside. Sakes!
59 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:03:16
We got off to the poxiest of starts and then gave it back by what looked like an instruction to play it out from the back regardless of if it was to our best advantage. What was the point in Walcott haring back at his top speed with a defender at his back and the ball given to him, facing the wrong way, for what seemed no particular reason. Pickford maybe should have done better at saving it but that was not the major problem. Being told to do something also entails knowing if in every instance it is the right thing to do.
I wondered also why Bernard was told to play wide right when it seemed that he had to be on the other wing and why Gomes was pulled when he seemed our best midfielder.
Then to add insult to injury that goal was disallowed, presumably for offside, when the last man to play the ball, or for it to come off, was Maguire even though Sigurdsson didn't play it. And where was VAR, gone home for extra time? Something really has to be done about the pizz poor refereeing in England.
I don't envy Mr Ancelotti's job next season and I don't expect Everton, as usual, to fight his red card despite the need for that Referee to explain the whole thing in front of a Press Conference, at least.
61 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:05:08
62 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:06:35
I was one of D C-L's strongest critics but his hold up play and distribution is superb and now he's realised where the goal is he's starting to look the complete CF.
63 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:07:11
When DCL hit his shot Siggy was not obstructing the keeper who had clear line of sight and moved in the direction of the shot. No interference, no offside.
When the ball hits the defenders heel and changes completely direction the Everton player cannot be offside. Even if he was then in the keepers line of sight. If he had played the balled he could have been adjudged offside for the earlier shot BUT he could not if he did not play it or interfere with it in any way.
It was a goal.
64 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:07:20
65 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:10:45
Although I dont believe it was offside in the modern interpretation of the rules...
Sigurdsson was offside when Calvert-Lewin played the ball forward, regardless of whether Maguire touched it. Just because it eventually came off Maguire it doesnt mean that he then plays everyone onside, it goes to the first ball played forward - which was Calvert-Lewins.
However, Im fairly sure that he can only be interfering if he affected the goalkeepers ability to save the ball (ie in his line of sight or if the keeper hesitates because he is expecting contact). He did neither.
66 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:14:33
Similar things were said about DCL, championship player etc, but he wasn't getting a run if games in his favoured position. Queue Big Dunc, who did the bleedin obvious and played him as a no 9 with a strike partner..hey presto!
On the back of the 2nd half performance I'd give Tom a run beside Gomes.
Moving onto VAR. I can't put into words the hate I feel towards it. Get shut, asap. What's worse than Jon Moss refereeing a game. I'll let y'all answer that one
67 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:15:26
An entertaining game of football, and probably a fair result in the end. Calvert-Lewin was very good, but both he and Richarlison missed great chances (Calvert-Lewin in the 1-on-1 with De Gea and Richarlison with the free header that he put over).
I agree that Davies had a poor 1st half, but improved as the game went on, and was really influential towards the end. Walcott, Sidibe were poor.
Sigurdsson did not play badly, but he seems to be severely off form. A player of his speed and dead-ball quality will excel in the German, Italian or Spanish leagues IMO. If we can offload him this summer, and a couple of others, we may be able to save some quid for purchasing a decent midfielder.
68 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:20:06
Looking at the highlights again, Sigurdsson should have buried his effort instead of toe-poking it, and as Roy said, why wasn't he back up on his feet???
I still don't understand how he is still getting a starting place.
69 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:20:08
70 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:21:31
But because Calvert-Lewin's shot is going the other way and is then deflected off Maguire into his path then he surely can't be active? It is Maguire, not Calvert-Lewin, who makes Sigurdsson 'interfere with play'.
71 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:21:57
They were convinced it would enhance our game. I was skeptical. I now think they were probably right. But none of us (either side of the ocean) could have imagined the game we hold so precious could be decided by fools.
This is not a simple error. It's a decision that could shape our club's future and it was taken by a complete fuckwit.
72 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:23:55
Davies gathered confidence as the game went on and did fine. We must support him.
I'm much less disappointed after this game than I was after last week. Having watched the Brands film, I've also made a vow to lose my impatience. We'll get there. Talking of calmness, I was delighted to see Carlo losing his temper.
Ancelotti and Brands: they are going to see us right.
73 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:24:51
I have been reading comments for so long, the negative comments really got me down. But the last few weeks have got the passion flowing again. Yes, there are problems... but, at long last, week on week, there is improvement.
We are at long last playing as a team. Today, I got excited, I got frustrated, I got joy, I got disappointed.... But I can see, for the first time, a way forward that has been missing.
My MotM: Baines.
74 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:25:11
75 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:29:38
76 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:32:56
77 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:34:20
I counted 5 interceptions and several probing forward passes to create chances. He blocked, harried and moved the ball forwards. Well done, lad.
Calvert-Lewin is totally class, the finishing is improving - he is making chances for himself with his movement. Today ,his 1st touch was fantastic, he held it up well, scored a goal and ran confidently at their defence. A really good performance and my MotM; Southgate will have been impressed.
What else... oh yes – we were bloody robbed!
78 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:35:23
79 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:39:43
80 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:41:01
82 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:49:10
Meanwhile, the Sky tossers think it's okay for Everton v Man Utd to have Roy Keane, fine, and Souness – WTF? Sick off the subliminal undermining of our club. They can all just... you know!
83 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:49:49
De Gea moves to his right to meet the original shot from Calvert-Lewin. Clearly he has seen where the ball's going. The ball then hits McGuire, the angle changes, De Gea's perspective and his view is almost side on now. The only time De Gea's view is impeded is when the ball passes under Sigurdsson's raised legs, but this is irrelevant as by now De Gea is wrong-footed and has no chance of preventing the ball crossing the line.
The VAR decision was made very quickly in my view. Compare that with the eternity it took to decide Dele Alli had not handled in the home game against Spurs, despite there being clear TV evidence to the contrary. Utterly shameful decision.
84 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:50:22
I thought Gomes was excellent until he tired, we have really missed his presence in the middle of the park. Very calm and composed on the ball and shields it very well. Bonus having him back so soon.
As to the game, well typical game of 2 halves really. Man Utd on top in the 1st half apart from first 15, then us on top in 2nd, although to be fair we missed some great chances in the 1st half.
Gylfi should have just shot in the area, Dom should have scored when DeGea tipped it round and Richarlison should have buried that header at the end of the first half.
As to the 2nd half, very dominant and again had a lot of chances. It wouldn't have mattered if the incompetent fools at Stockly Park were impartial. Goal every day of the week for me. If anything, Sigurdsson lying on the floor got out of De Gea's eyesight and the fact that it deflected off McGuire just beggars belief that it was disallowed. Surprisingly they actually showed the incident on the big screen at the time which is why the crowd and Ancelotti were so annoyed.
A real kick in the teeth, that decision, and left a really sour taste walking away from the ground. How many more points are we to be cheated of this season?
85 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:51:29
86 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:52:55
Calvert-Lewin was excellent. Sidibe continuing his shocking defensive form from the Arsenal game last week but Pickford should have done better. Gylfi and Theo far more deserving of criticism than Tom Davies.
87 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:53:14
Moise Kean was grabbed by Maguire in front of the ref's nose... He then saw a Davies foul on De Gea? Where was VAR?
Some idiots on the press will say that Sigurdsson interfers with the keeper's decision of not going for the ball, by diverting himself from it, but it's obvious that, if the keeper saw it, he should have stretched himself to the ground, but he never did that...
The cartel is operating in full mode once again. Mr Moshiri, Mr Usmanov, you can buy who you want, build a world class stadium and all. But THIS is how you get the job done.
I only watch football for the fun of it and I'm starting to think about how to fuck the cartel.
88 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:56:40
89 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:57:22
There was a brief moment of fine hilarity at the start – and tremendous kudos to Calvert-Lewin for creating that – followed by a long long period of pure dross in which that lousy miss by Calvert-Lewin set the tone for me. And, yet again, we could not build on a fantastic early advantage.
I found the first half increasingly horrible to watch — or am I supposed to take pleasure in watching Manchester United contain us? — until the inevitable concession.
As for the second half... it's true we played better... but so many poorly executed set-pieces... I was tearing my hair out. I think I counted one decent corner. And the absolute fiasco at the end... I would probably feel a bit happier if it had been given but the poor football throughout the game is very hard to watch, and it seems to be a fixture this season.
Sorry if it's not 'positive' enough for some of you... for me, I guess the old motto is hard to get past.
90 Posted 01/03/2020 at 17:58:13
My suggestion is to allow each team to have two VAR appeals during a game on situations called by their captain. Once both teams have used their appeals. Then the referee on the pitch makes decisions which are final. Right or wrong, it allows the referee to have an active role.
Currently their power, respect and influence is meaningless with VAR changing their decisions. The biggest problem with VAR is if the referee on the pitch can't get it right and the man with replays can't call it right, then there is really no hope!!
91 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:00:22
Did you bring the ex-player to the match in an urn or with his guide dog?
92 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:02:11
This team is a jigsaw puzzle with pieces that don't fit. It's mentally weak. It lacks strong characters.
For all that, unlike his predecessors, Carlo has a team that is hard to beat, while improving the younger players, especially Calvert-Lewin & Holgate. I'd like to see how Gomes progresses under a better manager and hope Kenny comes back as well as Holgate did after a spell playing games away from Silva.
I suspect Carlo will get us the hard bastard pacy centre mid I've been banging on about for years. Either Mina's going to improve, get consistency and lead the team at the back, or he's going to bring in someone who will. I'd also like a solid keeper you can rely on, rather than the give them a goal, save a goal one we have now.
Three good players, with character, authority, presence and skill. That's what I think it will take. The kind of players that allow the existing ones to improve.
93 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:06:11
I'm not sure whether Man Utd's domination of the ball in the first half was partly what Everton wanted so we could hit on the break, but we looked more effective in the second half. A draw was probably right.
Whatever the technical correctness or otherwise of the goal at the end, those who make and constantly tinker with the rules need to take a look at themselves and the laws of the game. Offside was introduced to prevent goal-hanging. Handball is penalised to stop players picking up the ball and running with it. The stupid, petty decisions being made, like the one today, are making an absolute mockery of the game we love.
94 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:06:49
VAR is the perfect way for them to maintain their control.
Absolutely corrupt the refs in this league.
95 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:10:12
Did the football live up to our motto? Probably not but certainly for me and everybody around me in the stadium, it was entertaining in its own way and certainly got everybody in the stands involved which is kind of what it's all about really, watching a couple of evenly matched teams go at it with each other with a dose of controversy thrown in at the end. Certainly wasn't drab mate.
96 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:10:47
As supporters have said previously, VAR is slowly taking any excitement from the game' and admitting last week a decision that was wrong, and was down to human error, is making it unreliable.
I can fully understand Ancelotti's reaction at the end of the game and admire his passion, but it wasn't the officials who gave the decision as the referee gave the goal, it was the VAR official who changed it.
Ancelotti said he would see how we made out in the next four games before making a decision about Europe before the Arsenal game and, with only 1 point out of the 6 made so far, I think there may be an outside possibility of top 6-7 but realistically 8-10.
97 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:19:46
Another disallowed controversial goal for the collection. It was good to see the manager contest the decision in the manner he did.
98 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:22:45
We bossed the 2nd half and probably deserved the win, were it not for the corrupt match officials and incompetent Moss.
I was angry at our stupid goal kicks and was proved right as that is where they got their soft goal from, it just invites pressure on the defence and is naive in my mind.
Lots to be positive about but I always thought VAR would make the game even more corrupt – remember who is in control of the TV cameras, angles and replays. Scummy bastards are destroying the game, many Man Utd and Liverpool fans been in touch after the match to say that it was a goal and that is proof of the pudding for me.
99 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:34:49
Man City and Chelsea... yeah, right, the ex-player I go to the game with goes every game as a season ticket holder. See if Carlo picks him next week.
101 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:36:56
As for VAR itself, and the ridiculous alterations to the off-side law, I voiced my feelings from the outset. I fear that it's dehumanising the game, and will have a detrimental effect on match attendances. I heard someone leaving the Ground saying "I'd sooner watch Championship football than be subjected to the whims of VAR". I am well past the anger stage, my emotion doesn't surpass deep disappointment.
102 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:44:36
Forget the goal, as Carlo says, that is a subjective decision. The Premier League need to explain what entails a clear and obvious decision because that one today was clearer than some that they've given.
103 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:46:36
Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were great. Davies was excellent for the last 40. I thought Keane and Gomes were pretty good too.
So annoying as 3 points today puts us right in the mix for things. Beating Chelsea away will be tough but that's what's needed I think for Europe now.
104 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:53:18
Whilst I personally have never tasted him at all, the one thing we all agree on is Sigurdsson has no pace whatsoever!
105 Posted 01/03/2020 at 18:59:03
I disagree that Pickford was badly at fault for their goal. Have a look at the reality, the fault was Sidibe's giving Fernandes the shot on a plate and the shot was superb with vicious swerve and dip. Pickford got down well and his hands where were the ball should have been if it had been a routine shot. It wasn't.
Pickford had a great game and saved us from certain defeat. Having seen the "winning" goal again it was a goal in accordance with the rules. He wasn't played onside by the deflection, that is pure myth, he just wasn't interfering with play or affecting De Gea's line of sight.
106 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:02:40
It was always hammered into me never to pass across your own goal. Pickford's pass, without looking around, sent alarm bells going off in my head. He immediately put the receiving player under pressure and then he had to pass to the wing to another under-pressure player, who passed the wrong side of Sidibe.
This is all music to the ears of a high pressing attack. The resulting goal was one of Pickford's goalkeeping errors he is prone to once a game. He didn't get away with it this week.
Sigurdsson had adequate time to get up and get back on side or at least look like he trying to, so that he was not interfering with play. This should have been his automatic thought process, but he sat on his ass and was caught offside. Sigurdsson did not make an attempt to not interfer with play and what he did do could be construed as interfering with play in an offside position. If he was attempting to get onside, which he should have been doing, he would not be sitting on his ass.
Both of this instances show the lack of awareness that both these players show repeatedly as members of the Everton team. It means they are not worth their assumed value and never will be.
Everton will never progress when players like this continually show such a lack of awareness.
107 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:04:40
As regards Pickford, what a liability!
The fact that he made a decent stop in the last minute – something that he is trained and paid to do – does not absolve him from making a complete arse of their equalizer. This guy has to go.
I couldn't see the offside decision but now, having watched it on a recording, how the hell is Sigurdson on the deck in the line of sight of the goalie? Absolutely ridiculous.
I have been against VAR since Day 1 and nothing so far this season has changed my mind. It is a step too far and taking all the emotion out of the game. It ruins going to the match
108 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:06:20
He is highly rated by many though, including the 2 clubs I mentioned. Hopefully Carlo can make him into a similar player as he was himself in his prime.
I imagine had the same incident for the disallowed goal been at the other end of the pitch then the goal would have stood...
109 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:07:57
I would like to see what Ancelotti could do with a group of his players. Sigurdsson isn't good enough for us anymore. He should have sealed it with the chance before the controversy happened. Decent point and performance, I thought.
111 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:16:01
Craig, Ancelotti has been like a gift from the gods for us and yet may not be able to achieve his potential due to financial and FFP restraints. No complaints from him though.
112 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:16:55
As to do otherwise would possibly/probably have stopped the flight of the ball towards its target? My head is addled at this stage.
113 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:24:01
Eric @ various, let's wait and see what happens to Davies, but I think you will be proved embarrassingly wrong about him. Time will tell. . .
114 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:28:42
The Man City goalkeeper looks up and knows his options and where players are. He never puts his defence under pressure. Pickford did not look up or consider other options.
Receiving the ball at that time, should have been used to take the pressure off an under pressure defence. When Pickford made that pass I was able to see what he did not bother to consider and watch the results of the error unfold.
Pickford's head was up his ass when he did that pass and was still up there when he attempted the save.
In every game, he is prone to similar lapses. Pickford would be sold by Man City at the first available opportunity, if he was there.
115 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:29:02
116 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:29:22
I found it bizaare why Sigurdsson didn't choose to hit that ball straight. It was far easier with a large chunk of the goal to aim at as opposed to hitting the ball to Dea Gea's right.
VAR needs to be reviewed over the summer officials are just making shit up as they go along. Bin Stockley Park they are a waste of time and space. Just let the referee go to the monitors and make the decision once the Premier League have cleared the rules as this is currently a gigantic fucking mess.
117 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:39:31
But if Maguire deflects it to the bottom right corner, Sigurdsson is in an offside position.
Sigurdsson is in that position because the defender cleaned him out in the area after he played the ball.
I don't know how they unraveled that one to come down to two favourable decisions for the away team.
118 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:39:38
Anyway, 30 points left to play for so hopes of Europe are still alive.
119 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:41:18
I couldn't believe some of the passes Tom Davies made in the second half, down the middle and arrowed two or three to the wing giving Sidibe plenty of space to measure his centres in, Davies still makes the odd error but he was by far the best of Everton's midfielders. Not having a go at Gomes, he has done very well to get back on the field but will take time to get up to the pace of the game.
It was a good game to watch, plenty of action, not a great deal of skill, although Calvert-Lewin provided plenty of that and looks like a top class striker to me and still improving, might have done better with the chance right after his goal but their goalie did well to fingertip it away.
I thought that Fernandes was very good for Man Utd, maybe his shot could have been dealt with better.
It is early days still for Ancelotti and he knows, and most of us know, we are still three or four good players away from having a settled and threatening team, just give him time.
120 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:42:08
"Right lads we want this, real bad, really, really bad. Let's get into the Scouse twats right from the get-go, give the sciving shithouses nothing, nothing! The foul-mouthed thieving scum will probably steal the fucking ball if you give it to 'em anyway so keep it, whatever it takes..... "
At which point Olly G walks in and says,
"Thanks for that ref, now here's who's in the team today lads....... "
121 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:42:15
122 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:47:46
No other explanation imo, when its clear the keeper was beaten because of the deflection, and not because a player was obstructing his view.
I got to the match late today, thought United were getting it to easy all over the park, except up-top where DCL, was winning most things, but this definitely changed once the second half began.
Second half, I thought Everton were so much more competitive, took the game to United, fought harder, closed down the space so much better, and were robbed of a victory, they deserved at the end.
The football wasnt great, but the commitment was definitely appreciated, and sometimes this makes for a much more exciting game, especially for the people inside the stadium, rather than those watching on tv perhaps?
123 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:47:46
I hold my hands up that I was wrong about Calvert-Lewin, his development these last few months has been brilliant.
Breaking into the top 4/5 is a big task, and some areas need to improve: midfield and defence.
124 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:51:50
125 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:56:02
Im delighted with CA reaction after the game! He cares !! Also first red card for a manager!!
I cant remember a VAR decision for us all season ??
Brighton away - disgrace
Deli Ali penalty, Spurs home - joke
Leicester away last minute - nightmare!
Todays decision- appalling !!
Not had a penalty all season !! This defies logic ?!
We can and must beat Chelsea and Liverpool! We can do it !!!
126 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:57:50
As for the rest they played very well at times. Not all the time however. More consistency required.
127 Posted 01/03/2020 at 19:59:53
128 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:01:21
So, Pickford is a liability for pulling off what you class as a 'decent' but what was actually a truly world-class save? Yes, he gets paid to make saves like that. Which he did. Brilliantly. So he earned his corn in that respect.
And yes, he should have done better for the goal. But I just don't get this endless criticism of him (and, sadly, plenty of others wearing the Royal Blue shirt too). Seriously, who would you replace Jordan with?
If you can't be in any way positive about the team you purport to support, why bother following it? Why bother claiming to be an Evertonian while posting endless criticism from the comfort of your living room?
It seems to me that you and quite a few others on this forum have got nothing better to do than pour scorn and opprobrium on anything and everything the club, its management and the players do.
I've been a Blue Nose for 60 years. I've been through the occasional (yet wonderful) highs and the very many lows. But I have never, ever been anything but be proud of being a supporter of this club. For me, that's what being a Blue is all about. Either get behind your team or please, just stop fucking griping all the time.
129 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:02:03
If he was 10 years younger he would gel into the setup.
Well played Calvert-Lewin and Tom Davies too.
130 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:06:41
131 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:08:24
Might not be brilliant but can it seriously be any worse???
132 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:09:27
A Howler is only your opinion not something that Pickford actually is guilty of. Pickford was superb today as he is every week for us.
Does he make mistakes? Well of course he does, he's human as De Gea is who made a real error today. But wait! He's the best goalie in the world.
133 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:17:43
Then we have the calamity always waiting to happen Pickford performs his usual complete fuck up. He very much reminds me of that asshole Grobelar, it's like he has been watching videos of him. I do believe Ancelotti will be looking very closely replacing him, or at the very least giving him serious competition.
As for the VAR decision at the end, if Sigurdsson had got up off his arse in the first instance we can presume the goal would have stood since it hit Maguire.
The bottom line is we didn't do enough to win the game. Roll on next season for me, there is only one football match remaining in which the result may cheer me up.
134 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:23:53
135 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:23:56
136 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:25:29
What's the point of the world class save if you've already made a mistake to concede the goal? Without the goal, we play with more confidence, probably aren't quite as expansive and in all likelihood don't concede the shot to make the save.
Would you be happy with 5 world class saves per game but 3 mistakes per game leading to goals?
Can anybody count back and work out how many goals Pickford has been responsible for this year? I'm guessing somewhere between 8 and 10.
He shone in a Sunderland side where the mistakes leading to goals were probably glossed over because of the saves he was making.
137 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:25:36
138 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:30:52
139 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:42:04
Sigurdsson never touched the ball; if he had stood up and scored, the goal would have been given in the World Cup.
140 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:45:02
Sorry if I came across as being personal. I was annoyed at what I perceived as being bad play by Pickford.
You do have a valid point regarding Man City and Ancelotti is trying to follow similar tactics. But there is a difference in the implementation level, I believe in this case. Pickford in my opinion poorly implemented his part in the tactic you outlined, which brought it down to the level of my own experience, which I could identify with.
I also felt that, since Pickford is prone to such lapses, teams, especially Man Utd, are coached prior to an Everton game in high pressing once Pickford gets the ball in such a situation. This is why they where able to app!y pressure on the p!ayer receiving the ball so swiftly and effectively. Obviously the midfield were not in a position to receive the ball, as you outlined as part of the tactic, and Pickford would have realised this had he looked up.
Thank you for your contribution; it did cause me some thought, since the point you raised was a valid and good one.
I should add, I think we will be stuck with Pickford for the foreseeable future and I hope Alan Kelly will be effective in sorting him out.
141 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:45:28
This is not an isolated incident as it seems to happen every week bringing referees scrambling to protect their colleagues, and pundits agreeing or disagreeing depending on the side they support.
There appears more controversy now than before VAR was brought in, with talk already on changing how the offside rule may be changed. How can you change something that clubs have dropped points on by VAR, since this was supposed to improve any controversy?
Anything that has to be checked may be subject to human error, and this has happened; there should be more than 1 person checking it, there should be at least 3 with a majority decision agreed upon.
Congratulations on a point well earned today with some outstanding performances from the oldest player to the up-and-coming young players.
142 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:54:37
143 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:56:08
I thought The Dom was terrific today leading the line as a true centre-forward. I bet Alan Shearer was on it.
144 Posted 01/03/2020 at 20:57:54
I'll put your post about me as you being either pissed or stupid or both. I too have supported my team for over 60 years, like many others, so don't think you get a bag of sweets for being Number 1 supporter. I have travelled the world to watch us and do NOT sit watching them on the telly.
I think you may be mistaking me for someone else regarding negativity. I, like everyone else, am entitled to an opinion. Pickford is a liability
I do not "purport to being a Blue" — I am a Blue. So you, my friend, can fuck right off.
145 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:06:05
This is an Everton fans forum where all opinions should be respected. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see Tom succeed at the highest level but, in my opinion, in order to fulfill his potential, he needs to go on loan and toughen up.
146 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:25:55
147 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:26:43
Then again I could be wrong and someone with the stats will prove me wrong.
148 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:29:56
149 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:48:12
I guess the reality should be, would you go back to how we were or use VAR as it should be used, pitch-side by the referee? That, with a change of the offside law to ensure there needs to be clear air between defender and attacker to be offside, would clear up ridiculous decisions. If you cannot check for clear air, go back and check initial contact from the player playing the pass.
The offside law today was incorrectly used, in my opinion; VAR was interpreted incorrectly, as was the law. Poor decisions will always be with us but incorrect interpretations of the law should never be.
150 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:49:23
152 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:51:55
I suppose the result was fair as we were poor in the first half but bossed the second half. Very pleased to see Tom Davies play so well – lots of ball won, lots of good forward passes. Holgate also was excellent.
The last decision was outrageous. The ref gives it, gets cold feet when Man Utd complain, then Moss makes a howler (or worse). If the player is on the floor and not in anyone's eyeline, how is he interfering with play? The crowd went mad when they saw the replay on the big screen. No doubt, however, the MotD “experts” will support the decision. VAR has to go or be radically changed next season.
153 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:54:31
Very advantageous to the reds (both Manc and across the road).
154 Posted 01/03/2020 at 21:57:24
I don't understand how we didn't introduce Mina given the impact he would have had with the corners. Maguire wouldn't have been as dominant had Mina being playing.
As for Sigurdsson, he was an embarrassment and should hang his head in shame. Richarlison is a credit to the club with the effort he makes. Incredible.
155 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:03:37
156 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:08:19
No, I think I'm correct with pissed and idiot. Just out of interest, I note that, of the 150 posts so far, probably most are critical of Pickford, Sigurdsson, and one or two others... yet, for some strange reason, I appear to be the only negative non-Evertonian Strange really, don't you think?
You don't know me, we have never met; however, implying that I am not a supporter is an absolute disgrace.I don't know where you sit but hopefully nowhere near me.
157 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:14:41
Having got a lucky goal we then give away an equally cheap one. The messing around at goal kicks is embarrassing for professional footballers.
I thought Baines, Davies, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin were very good.
Ancelotti obviously doesn't fancy Bernard whilst Mina and Sidibé paid the price for last week's poor defending.
We needed a bit more quality in delivery. We had countless corners and didn't really get much past Maguire's massive head.
Ancelotti can't have been in this position many times. Managing an unfashionable club in a league where the cards are stacked in the Sky darlings' favour.
Even the Sky commentary box is totally biased. It's full of ex Liverpool or Man Utd players.
The VAR disallowed goal shouldn't surprise anyone. It is ruining the game for all supporters.
Every week, it is cancelling goals despite it being used for clear and obvious errors, it is being used for just about every goal with a view to disallowing goals, disrupting play and generally pissing off every match-going fan.
158 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:19:09
Lots of posts on Man Utd sites saying they were very happy to escape with a point and the VAR decision was wrong.
159 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:19:21
Firstly, VAR – Video 'assistant' – but it overrules the referee' s original decision!!?? Is the referee allowed to overrule VAR? And why oh why aren't the pitchside monitors used?
Being a bit biased – Calvert-Lewin was reviewed for a red card – Fred did a much worse foul on Richarlison – nothing and no VAR – explain that!!?? It was a deliberate attempt to injure a player and he almost succeeded! I have hated the modern game for a number of seasons now for a myriad of reasons – but of course I hang in there with Everton.
We have improved massively. Calvert-Lewin, Holgate and Davies were a joy to watch today. Richarlison and Baines – different ends of their careers, but showed pure class and effort befitting what we expect.
As no doubt said by others over the course of the season, we are still in need of a number of things, not least a midfield general in the mold of a Reid, Carsley or Gueye!
We are going in the right direction, and I was made up to see Ancelotti's reaction today. We have needed a proper manager for a long long time. If he cannot get us somewhere, we might as well all pack it in!
160 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:19:30
161 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:20:18
Michael, if you think that was a drab game I think you must have a very short memory. Drab and boring were pretty much any game under Silva this season, or the last season of Martinez. I think the only game I've found boring since Silva's sacking were Dunc's home game against Arsenal and Ancelotti's first game against Burnley, which was dull for large parts. I found today entertaining apart from Pickford's fuck up and the VAR decision.
162 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:22:44
163 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:23:23
We are improving, but it's probably just too late to 'hit the heights' this season, Something I've noticed under Carlo; the 'bits and pieces' players [if that's not unkind] are coming to the fore. As recently as 12 months ago, Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Holgate were not sure to be in the starting 11. Now, Calvert-Lewin has acquired a first touch; Tom Davies doesn't look like a headless chicken; and Holgate is all calm elegance. To say 'Build a team around those three' would have been sacrilege just a few months ago!
164 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:28:05
I respect your view on the application of the VAR at the side of the pitch, but I'm firmly in the 'abolition brigade,' in my quest to have it removed entirely. I feel that the game can survive without it, the teams in the lower Leagues are compelled to suffer the injustices, and they are coping without it.
165 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:28:25
VAR should be scrapped. It wont be because there are too many vested interests in keeping it running among referees, media commentators, TV companies and administrators. But the sport at the top level is being diminished. It may be a few years before that translates into a significant loss of interest in attending matches but it will eventually.
166 Posted 01/03/2020 at 22:48:14
I, like many on here, am sure the oaf that is Jon Moss would have given the goal if one of the Sky faves had scored it. Trying to be totally objective, I can see the goalie being distracted by Sigurdsson sitting there. It may not have obscured everything but he would have been in his eyeline.
The simple fact is, that (like an earlier poster said) the lazy sod should have got to his feet by then and got himself out of the way. The guy looked knackered all second half. He had a poor game despite hitting the post from his free kick. If he had slid in the winner, we would be celebrating now.
Ancelotti has to learn that Walcott should not start ahead of Bernard and that Sigurdsson is basically a passenger who can't play box-to-box. His lack of pace costs us as does his lack of stamina. If he was fit, he woudn't have laid on his back after missing an open goal.
One good thing: Calvert-Lewin is going from strength to strength and he is forming a good understanding with Richarlison. A super second half.
167 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:09:30
168 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:19:07
Originally I thought it would help. But ineptitude on top of ineptitude is worse than ineptitude.
Ideally it would just be for CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERRORS. You know the sort, we all know the sort. If you watch any football you know the sort.
If they try to make it better they'll make it worse.
They've completely cocked it up.
169 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:20:59
Refereeing by humans often lead to mistakes and whichever team you followed supporters would rant and curse at the ref or linesman. That was all part of the game and even part of the enjoyment. We all knew who to BLAME. We cannot respond to an invisible referee who can actually make his decision after the ball has been kicked around the field for what seems like ten minutes.
Some say it can be improved. I totally agree and we can improve it by going back to a referee, even one who makes mistakes. We have done fine for well over a hundred years.
176 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:45:16
177 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:47:12
So not only was we robbed of a goal, we got done twice.
178 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:49:40
I did not for one minute expect any of them to say anything else.
179 Posted 01/03/2020 at 23:59:04
I am not exactly totally against it, if, and only if, it is used in the right way, which up to now bears no evidence of that!
180 Posted 01/03/2020 at 00:02:07
Therefore why, as soon as Maguire touched the ball, shouldn't it have been offside?
Maybe someone who knows more about the rules could explain.
181 Posted 02/03/2020 at 00:32:55
Forget the passive/interfering offside discussion for a second. If it was Calvert-Lewin passing the ball through to a clearly offside Sigi, and it deflected off Maguire to him, then common sense says it's offside.
If Maguire instead took possession and then accidentally played it to Sigi, then common sense says that's not offside. The defender has played the ball to the attacker.
Same rules apply here. It's offside if Gylfi is involved in the play after the contact from Calvert-Lewin. Maguire had only deflected it.
For me, given Gylfi is very clearly beyond the last defender, there are only two considerations:
1. Was he interfering/involved in play?
2. If he was involved, then was he fouled?
Both are subjective decisions. That means they need to be clear and obvious errors by the on pitch referee for VAR to overturn them.
For the interfering question (1) VAR can only confirm Sigi was in an offside position (they have a clear mandate to award and disallow goals for even fractional offsides). But the ref already knew that - it was very clear where he was in relation the last defender. VAR can't possibly call the decision that he wasn't interfering a clear and obvious error. It's a borderline call – not clear, not obvious. Very debatable.
For the penalty, the referee must have decided it was an attempt to block the shot. VAR reviewed that and decided the call wasn't a clear and obvious error. I'm fine with that. I don't agree but I think it's at least the right process.
Opinions shouldn't matter on this one. We all have an opinion, but so did the ref. And his is supposed to be the one that matters.
What I believe is factual, is that VAR overstepped it's mandate. They can call fractional offsides, but they shouldn't be overruling subjective on-field decisions by the referee unless there's a clear error.
Basically, we got screwed again.
182 Posted 02/03/2020 at 00:38:21
183 Posted 02/03/2020 at 01:42:49
No guts, no passion, hides. How he gets a start is beyond me.
Bainesy – superb.
184 Posted 02/03/2020 at 02:06:37
In rugby league, you get situations where the ball is passed behind runners. Those dummy runners can be penalised for obstruction if they subsequently even accidentally prevent a defender from getting to the player who actually receives the ball.
The video refs often ignore technical infringements where it is obvious that the defender would never have got to the ball carrier anyway. I feel that Siggy's ‘interference' was of this inconsequential type.
185 Posted 02/03/2020 at 03:22:39
Apart from the free kick that hit the post, which admittedly was beautifully struck, what contribution did he make? He can't tackle and is easily shaken off the ball.
Mina should have partnered Kean at the back, thus releasing Holgate to consolidate the centre midfield and enabling Gomes to shine. His strength would have provided the perfect calalyst for Gomes silky skills.
My starting X1: Virginia (Pickford needs challenging). Coleman. Keane. Mina. Baines (he's having a renaissance). Walcott (Pace). Holgate. Gomes. Bernard. Richarlison. Calvert-Lewin (an unselfish revelation).
186 Posted 02/03/2020 at 03:31:33
I agree that it would have been better that Holgate had have been on as a defending midfield and Mina should have been on. Sigurdsson is just not good enough.
187 Posted 02/03/2020 at 04:04:32
The same issues abound with a dysfunctional midfield, rotation which often brings a disjointed feel to things, and a keeper who is more Jekyll than Hyde.
Sigurdsson proving he isn't invisible... well according to VAR. We all know that's not the case as the lad hasn't shown up all season.
Despite the furore, the way our manager conducts himself seems so in sync with our own feelings. He definitely has things trending in the right direction. He is able, crucially, to change tactics with the same personnel on the field and yield results. My thoughts catapult forward to what he might achieve just with a better baseline of player? It feels like he has United the fanbase.
A final thought or so on the moment of the game.
Sigurdsson should have buried it, maybe he didn't because his follow-through was curtailed by a stonewall penalty? Even if you cannot square that circle, it's clear if Calvert-Lewin's effort goes straight in it's given, on that basis alone the deflection changes nothing.
It's another reason why interventionist systems like VAR destroy the game. The game should be decided by the players through a challenge system, it then reinforces the call on the field and encourages the teams to use the system sparingly for the absolute clanger. Sure from time to time it will be used to get lucky, but a limited number of challenges will stop the Thierry Henry handball and allow goals like today.
Will there still be poor calls sure but, when a team deploys a challenge it will largely because it's an absolute clanger thus marginalizing a debacle like today.
VAR has to change and realize it's over-reaching, robbing officials of their confidence and authority and negatively impacting the game.
188 Posted 02/03/2020 at 07:11:12
We were told that any player asking for a VAR would be booked, seriously expect the first and only booking for that offence to be an Everton player in the derby.
You will always get poor refs and poor decisions irrespective of VAR, if those making the VAR decisions are the very same ones who make the poor and often biased decisions on the pitch. Lunacy to think otherwise.
189 Posted 02/03/2020 at 07:28:40
Not personal in any way and apologies if I came across that way myself. My initial reaction is normally to try to defend players who are being criticised if it's possible to do so and that sometimes makes it appear to be argumentative. Having seen it again and had a night's sleep on it, I accept that it could be said that Pickford could have done better but to be fair he had a very good game otherwise and the shot was wicked.
Fernandes had an exceptional game and I wish he was with us. Tom Davies who was badly criticised had a very good game for me especially in the second half in a tough position and with Man Utd packing the midfield.
I can't find a lot good to say about Sigurdsson and Richarlison was off his best but looks to be carrying an injury to his right knee. Marvellous to see Calvert-Lewin, Baines and Holgate play so well and to see Gomes getting back into the swing. The VAR decision was patently incorrect in accordance with the rules but overall it was a good comeback and a good result.
190 Posted 02/03/2020 at 07:49:16
Not given, we met my other son after the match who had just been robbed of £400 because of that fraud Jonathon Moss, and watching it on the phone when we went for something to eat, it was clear De Gae, was beaten by this deflection and not because he was unsighted.
I came home and read a match report which stated Souness and Keane, said it was the correct decision, and thats why I came to that conclusion James, because those lying bastards would have felt cheated if it would have happened to them when they were playing mate.
Its enough to turn my back on the game this “cheating” not a black and white decision, but just someones opinion, and Id say the people in your studio were 100% correct imo, but thats because they obviously dont have an agenda to side with certain clubs, unlike television in this country.
Michael Oliver made history last month, honest it was on the news and everything, because he went over to the side of the pitch, (fa cup game) looked at his screen and then changed his yellow card to a red, and sent off a Palace player. Two/three weeks later, Oliver in a premier lge game, faced with a similar decision, never went to his screen?
He got praise for going to the screen, but decided not to go back? Someone is making these outlandish rules, and its killing the game completely for the match going fan, and my final thought on yesterday was that if Lewins goal would have stood, Im sure the dubious goals panel would have awarded it to Harry McGuire, which would be enough for me to rest my case under normal circumstances.
McGuire and De Gae, were clever, Sigurdsson should have cheated and stayed down feigning injury, but Ive already read it wasnt a foul by the United right back, (I didnt think it was either) although Im sure someone will get a penalty for a similar challenge in the next few weeks, obviously depending on the team!
191 Posted 02/03/2020 at 08:09:14
192 Posted 02/03/2020 at 08:16:25
193 Posted 02/03/2020 at 08:59:58
I do hate the current offside law. In my day, offside was very easy to observe, there were occasions when it was a fine margin, but we all understood the rule.
Today, we have "inactive players", not interfering in play etc, etc. For me anyone one the pitch is interfering with play and as a goalie, I can honestly say that if I was in United's goal, I would have been slightly distracted by Siggy lying in front of me. He may well have not obscured the goalkeeper's view of the shot itself, but he might have obscured the view of the other peripheral things that all impact on the keeper's decision-making.
Jon Moss should have considered these things, and he came to his conclusion. I would have considered them and given the goal because Sigurdsson's role was minimal and the deflection, with the goalie wrong-footed meant he would never have saved it.
Jon Moss is one of the worst refs out there and he has noticably given us Jack Shit in the past.
I often mused that he failed to see the obvious on the pitch because his lack of fitness meant he was behind play and his mental ability was impaired by low oxygen levels. I now know that he is a particularly thick person who may well enjoy pandering to the top teams.
195 Posted 02/03/2020 at 10:18:13
196 Posted 02/03/2020 at 10:29:11
197 Posted 02/03/2020 at 10:29:13
The point is, he lay there for a few seconds instead of jumping back to his feet to get involved in the game and He certainly jumped straight up after the ball went in. A lesson to all players to not lay on the floor in frustration or milking a challenge.
198 Posted 02/03/2020 at 10:37:15
A final irony in all what happened was that if Sigurddson had been called offside by the ref then VAR would surely have been used to run the rule over the disgraceful tackle on Sigurddson.
By the way, I'm no Sigurddson lover but suggesting that the 3 or 4 seconds that elapsed between his hitting the deck and the ball hitting the net was sufficient time for him to have dragged himself up and then made sure he was onside is total nonsense.
199 Posted 02/03/2020 at 11:05:38
200 Posted 02/03/2020 at 11:20:59
Regardless it is another game were we were architects of our own downfall.
That stupid attempt to play it out from the back that led to their goal, less said about the keeper the better.
Last week was the same, at least a point was there. with poor defending and finishing we left with none. The Newcastle game, has been done to death, leave it there. That is five points we have thrown away.
We have to play like professionals and I am sure Carlo will get there, alas not this year.
201 Posted 02/03/2020 at 11:56:15
They've jumped on that to explain their decision which, IMO, is still ridiculous!
202 Posted 02/03/2020 at 12:10:04
203 Posted 02/03/2020 at 12:27:11
If we are going to blame someone it should be Sigurdsson for not rolling out of the goalmouth towards the touchline.
Whatever, we are doing ok, not brilliant but the ship is sailing in the right direction.
Ancelotti is a likeable guy, and seems like he gets what the club wants.
What we need now is to sign two or three elite players to lift us that little bit higher in quality.
With Ancelotti as manager we stand a much more chance of signing better players.
205 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:18:10
Although I don't have Sky TV for match broadcasts, [we are with BT], I am able to get Sky Sports News, I very seldom watch it, but I tuned in this morning to see what Dermot Gallagher perceived of the issue, he was like a 'rabbit caught in the headlights' of course he had to support the decision of the referee, and despite being shown in slow motion, he refused to accept that David de Gea had clearly seen the goal bound shot from Dominic Calvert Lewin, and therefore was not impeded in any way, he also refused to acknowledge that Sigurdsson was taken out by Wan-Bissaska.
I have seen on occasion, what I believe is the normal set-up at Stockley Park, [apologies if that's not the correct name], and there appeared to be at least three individuals on duty. Perhaps someone can help a feeble-minded 'Old Man' whose mind is growing more feeble by the day. As I understand it, all games kick off at the same time on the final day of the season, if I've got my facts right, there will be a minimum of ten referees, [possibly rising to thirty] on duty.
206 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:27:06
Sigurdsson did have time to get up and out of the way, as some have said, and should bear part of the responsibility..
207 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:48:25
I read yesterday that United have gained 8 VAR decisions in their favour, and have benefitted way more than anyone else.
208 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:48:48
I can normally work through rules and process as an official myself. This has me utterly perplexed. Ive often chided posters on here for the irrational, emotional and often vitriolic claims against referees, because its just that. The conspiracy etc. & after yesterday Im pretty much there myself. A travesty.
209 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:51:08
Same shite, some even say the draw was a fair result, and the argument will continue to rage, whilst the sycophants peddle their bullshit.
Turning the coin, I wonder how incensed United fans would have been if Evertons goal had stood? Not as incensed has us Im sure!
210 Posted 02/03/2020 at 13:51:27
211 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:03:05
Fuck their opinions anyway, they just pull rank, and even if they had felt that Everton were hard done by, it still wouldnt get us the two extra points that we deserved.
Something else interesting happened during yesterdays game JP. Sidibe, came back onto the pitch without the refs permission, and when he kicked the ball, the ref blew up and gave the ball to United because of this. I was wondering what would have happened if Everton had scored without Sidibe touching the ball, would a goal have stood in those circumstances?
212 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:10:18
213 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:22:49
As to your question as it stands if the team offending gains an advantage, as it stands you know the answer. This is the point, dont blow any infringement if it doesnt actually disadvantage anyone.
First of all a law like that shouldnt exist. Injured players who leave the field of play should be able to re-enter the at any time providing they do so at a designated point ie. within 5 meters of either centre line. All players then know its a possibility so cannot complain if a fella hops on at the half way and steals the ball, it also has no effect on the game.
Its a ‘gotcha culture, and it has to change. Sadly Kavanagh who allowed the goal on the field felt under zero obligation to sell the call. Personally Id have just marched up to monitor taken one look and realized there was nothing to change. It was ugly and on first inspection tricky, but when you take more than a moment to separate the picture from rule, its a goal. Robs point about Siggy being less of a distraction than a player either standing there with his arms up or walking away from the ball is a very good one.
What I cannot get my head around is it disproportionate amount it happens to us
214 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:23:26
215 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:43:45
Supporters who referee may be aware of the rules,and can correct me, but can a player be in an offside position when a goal is scored but is not in a position to interfere with the goal, it stands.?
Was there a official statement why the goal was disallowed ? as it seems like the decision went on the laws of the game, even though we get different interpretations from different officials.
216 Posted 02/03/2020 at 14:51:45
We don't even know what green is never mind getting a rub of it, but on this occasion sadly I think we had enough chances to put the game to bed before this but failed.
217 Posted 02/03/2020 at 15:13:47
218 Posted 02/03/2020 at 15:38:13
219 Posted 02/03/2020 at 15:50:35
He got praised for his actions that day, taking-charge of his own decisions, but someone must have had a quiet word in every refs ear, telling them that this is not something they want for whatever reason, maybe because its a perk of the job, sitting in the VAR studios, especially for fat out of breath bastards like Johnathon Moss.
220 Posted 02/03/2020 at 15:58:17
221 Posted 02/03/2020 at 16:00:55
222 Posted 02/03/2020 at 16:11:36
223 Posted 02/03/2020 at 16:22:46
I don't know what will happen with the rest of the FA Cup games for this season. You might get a clue if there is an issue in tomorrow nights match when Chelsea play Liverpool!!!
224 Posted 02/03/2020 at 16:41:16
225 Posted 02/03/2020 at 16:53:05
He then revokes the decision after influence from Stockley Park, but no mention of the penalty on Sigurdsson, like many have also alluded had it been the other way round, or the RS involved it probably would have stood.
How can we possibly progress in a bent system, it has to be, and be seen to be, the same for all, with no exception.
226 Posted 02/03/2020 at 17:05:06
Our rhythm was broken with Coleman going off, but the second half was not drab, in fact it was one of our best performances in a while, considering Man Utd's form and class.
227 Posted 02/03/2020 at 17:10:11
228 Posted 02/03/2020 at 18:09:05
I can accept it was not one for the purist, but there was plenty of needle out their and I thought it fizzed along.
I can't accept the decision to disallow the goal was taken with an honest heart. Jon Moss is a gobshite who has too much previous.
229 Posted 02/03/2020 at 18:36:52
230 Posted 02/03/2020 at 18:43:17
The criticism of Sigurdsson is that he could have been more professional in rolling out the way while claiming a penalty. We would have scored whilst the referee was making his excuse why a penalty had not been awarded.
Although there then would have been a mass protest by the Man Utd players and likely a drop ball given.
231 Posted 02/03/2020 at 18:57:58
Ancelotti will have his work cut out winning trophies with this group of players, but I get the feeling we are not as easily bullied since he arrived. You are right. Man Utd were fucking horrible and I think we lose that game under Silva.
I felt our players were giving as good as they got yesterday, all over the park, and how good it was to see.
You shouldn't really condone a manager getting a red card, but I'm happy to make an exception here. That referee will think twice before he gives a 50/50 decision against us again.
He comes across as an easy-going old charmer, but there is clearly a bit of a street fighter under that smooth facade, and I loved seeing it surface. Clearly no rollover merchant and I'm beginning to expect his teams not to be.
232 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:03:02
To think Carlo and Duncan are getting a tune out of this squad speaks volumes about the work they are doing.
I am afraid one of my pet hates is I don't think managers should be allowed onto the pitch at anytime. However frustrated a manger is with a decision, you know first the ref won't change his mind, and second, you find yourself fined or banned from the touchline. Managers can approach the ref in his room after the match has finished, and that's how it should be.
233 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:20:36
234 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:26:09
Being a Brands' loan signing,' I'm sure he will get a long term contract here whilst Kenny will get' the bum's rush' although the better player.
I've no doubt that the narrowing of Unsey's responsibilities will result in his imminent departure and a mass exit for all those who have dared to win trophies at the lower level. Cost cutting, no doubt.
235 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:31:00
It is something when one of the most successful managers in the game is accused of bringing the game into disrepute for a blatant misinterpretation of a rule AND for not even reviewing or answering the charge of a blatant penalty.
As a club we should appeal both the red card and the charge, someone has to take a stand, its always Everton who are "first" on a charge sheet.. (Niasse now Carlos) God help Moss if and when he refs a game again at Goodison.
236 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:37:22
Or, another example springing to mind after reading your post:
Why in the world does a club like Manchester City - who undeniably cheated with the rules in place - take a stand against a decision against them they feel is wrong, and fight it like they'd die if they lost the outcome of the appeal?
Fluffy little Everton having three points stolen from them by a ridiculous decision not even in keeping with the laws of the game, and not doing a MF-ing thing about it?
For once, just once, I'd like to see Everton grow a set and freaking take on someone when they are cheated. Just once. You want to galvanize the fanbase? Then fight dammit. Spend some money and fight this thing like your life depended on it. It's the principle of the thing.
Take a page out of that rich oil Middle East dude's handbook down the road, and take 'em on.
One more time, just for affect -
Fight the bastards just once! Stop taking it in the backside and stand up for yourself. Jesus, Joseph, and Mary does this fanbase deserve this spineless response?!
237 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:44:34
238 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:46:33
239 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:51:19
240 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:53:31
I imagine Carlo must have uttered some ripe language after the robbery ( he was entitled to ) but it will be him that get's the banning order. Always been the same.
241 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:53:34
The crowd were exasperated because United were getting it to easy, except when DCL, was winning everything in the air, and I sensed it was because of Sigurdson, Walcott, and to a lesser extent Tom Davies.
They equalised, and things didnt change, but once the second half started it was a different story, and the old Everton, got the old lady, right in the fucking mood!
Get tight, close the space, these c**ts are horrible anyway, so lets give them something to really moan about, is how I saw it. Davies, grew and grew, Walcott was replaced by a little footballer, and without being brilliant Evertons desire was still starting to turn the tide.
Sidibe was in a lot of pain but continued, Moise Kean was running back and regaining possession, and both Lewin &Richarlison, were a constant threat, whilst Baines, was an absolute joy in possession of the football at times.
Goodison was becoming the ground that opponents hate again, and maybe being hard done by, might even serve us well in the end, because the team and the players are really starting to Unite, and its a wonderful thing when it happens.
Maybe Sigurdsson could have got up, but those wily old fuckers Keane and Souness, only had to be present yesterday, to know that Gylfi, is the present whipping boy, so it was no surprise when they turned it on him, instead of the fat bastard eating pies at Stockley Pk!
242 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:54:05
You will no doubt know that my best days are behind me, but I'm still game to fight for fairness and equality. I'm old enough to remember when Everton were the top team in our city, although I've lived in Skelmersdale for 53 years having been born in 75 Everton Road I still regard Liverpool as my ancestral home.
243 Posted 02/03/2020 at 19:55:44
Can't believe how many Blues actually agree with this decision. Was Sammy Lee offside v West Ham in the league Cup final? He was but it wasn't given. But that's what the so-called big cheating clubs get.
244 Posted 02/03/2020 at 20:17:06
Alas I hate injustice, and more so when I feel its blatant bias against the blues.. it takes quite a bit to get me angry these days but time and time again it seems to continue without a murmur.
I have travelled the world as far as you can go, I would still get up at 3am to watch a game in NZ in the 80s, I would have 20 fans in my living room watching till 5am.. watching the FA cup final. Then Australia but Scotland road never left me or my love for sitting on shoulders in Gwladys Street aged five.. I held season tickets for over 20 years.. its the love of my life up there with my family.
I came back to Liverpool after a few years in France but will once again return down under for family in the coming weeks and will miss Goodison rocking but will vow to be there for BMD..
Once Everton touch you, you are blessed and cursed.. it is my lot, thank god.
245 Posted 02/03/2020 at 21:11:03
There is very little consistency besides it's inconsistent use and more fanciful justifications week on week.
I can't remember the incident last week where the usual drivel was peddled out about being the letter of the law and then within minutes the same guy issued an apology to say it was an incorrect decision FFS. How are we supposed to enjoy the beautiful game when this is happening every week.
I also think that the club have a responsibility to us the fans and the players to be a leading force against this pathetic use of technology.
We will lose the manager's influence on the bench for the next game at least. The fans also cheated out of a last minute winner plus the other mistakes it has made.
I also don't like the scrutiny and media bandwagon starting against the club and Pickford. Last week Neville accused the whole club of being mentally weak, an astoundingly ignorant comment that nobody from the club disagreed with.
This week we have Roy Kean slaughtering Pickford. He may not be perfect but he is our goalie, again the club should do something to defend him.
It's about time the club started making some noise and stop taking things on the chin.
246 Posted 02/03/2020 at 21:30:29
You can watch YouTube in slow motion by tapping the three dots at the top right. I did and what I saw was this:
De Gea was going to have to make a save to his right from DCLs shot
McGuire new this and tried to back heel it out for a corner on the left. The ball did not hit him he played it and wrong footed De Gea.
If that is the case does that make any difference to the decision? I think it should.
247 Posted 02/03/2020 at 21:54:27
Interesting that people I have spoken to since the game, supporters of all different teams think we were robbed & it was a goal.
If Sigurdsson wasnt there, the ball is still going in, De Gea was beaten by the deflection off Maguire. Maguire also benefitted from var after their last game against Chelsea, when he kicked out at one of their guys.
On another note, absolutely shocking to think that a bog standard big lump of a stopper like Maguire cost £80 million!!
248 Posted 02/03/2020 at 22:36:19
249 Posted 02/03/2020 at 23:00:57
250 Posted 03/03/2020 at 02:31:05
Based upon your interpretation of the defender deliberately trying to play the ball, then the answer is yes. Siggy could not be offside so the goal should be allowed. Of course, given that Siggy in no way interfered, the goal should have been allowed anyway.
251 Posted 03/03/2020 at 09:15:00
I just wish they would drop this BS about it all being for the good of the game and be honest. VAR has been and always will be a disaster because it actually has nothing to do with making things fair or equal. It is just there to stop teams not in favour winning against teams who are. Or to give certain teams a huge advantage when they are in tight games or need a helping hand.
VAR is a disease that is ruining the game and making it a sport that is now heavily biased against teams like Everton. Add up all the dodgy calls we have had this season and think where we would be in the Premier League without them. Then add up how many dodgy calls Liverpool or Man City have had – doesn't really stack up, does it?
At least when the on-pitch ref was getting it wrong, you could genuinely believe they had made a human error. VAR getting it wrong time and again just shows that wrong decisions are now being made on purpose, depending on which team they will affect. It also drives down the standard of refereeing as the on-pitch official has a get-out-of-jail-free card to avoid making any decisions or taking any personal responsibility for them.
The sooner they get rid, the better!
252 Posted 03/03/2020 at 11:53:34
First of all, it was not a 'comeback'. Anything but. It was winning position for Everton, squandered yet again from a brilliant early advantage. It was so long ago (ie, the first minute) but we did actually score the opening goal. We were leading but we gave it up through stupid play out the back (thanks Sidibé).
Yes, we played better in the second half — wasted god knows how many corners and free-kicks — and achieved absolutely nothing... until the very end... which thanks to VAR also counted for nothing.
How in any Evertonian world is drawing at home with Manchester United a good result??? The acceptance of our perennial mediocrity by some fans I find un-fucking-believable.
253 Posted 03/03/2020 at 12:31:39
I personally find irrational negativity far worse than the imaginary acceptance of non-existent mediocrity by us baddie fans. What do you do personally to not accept mediocrity Michael and what would you have us do to not accept it whatever it is? Remember too please that, like most posts on a forum, what you have written is just your opinion and shouldn't really be stated so forcefully as factual.
254 Posted 03/03/2020 at 12:51:36
255 Posted 03/03/2020 at 13:01:25
256 Posted 03/03/2020 at 13:08:39
257 Posted 03/03/2020 at 13:27:11
I think I agree with you. Central midfield has been a major Achilles heel since the season started, for a variety of reasons. No amount of tinkering is going to make that better. We can beat a lot of teams, and have done under this management, but mainly those teams we should beat, but didnt under Silva.
Now were in a run of games against more challenging teams. We have performed ok and the results could both have been better so far. But we didnt win. We lack that little bit of class in midfield, that is part of the issue. The other part of the issue is being discussed even now on here.
No amount of fulminating about accepting mediocrity is going to change that unfortunately
258 Posted 03/03/2020 at 13:51:31
We love skill, we love a bit of class, but also know that although you cant be good every week, you can always work your hardest for the team.
Once Walcott went off, and Davies grew into the game, I felt the crowd really got behind the team, and although some were still frustrated that Sigurdsson was on the pitch, it was a great atmosphere because you could feel that little bit of belief filtering down from the stands out onto the pitch.
When the team works really hard at Goodison, then its very rare Everton lose, and thats got to be the main focus for our team right now.
259 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:05:35
Ideally a diamond-shaped one with balance, legs, shape and that carries a genuine threat, and an 80s one with width, skill, grit and guile. The above can be achieved and does exist now, but sadly our once great club doesn't bother looking further down the leagues because most of the players who can achieve the above ply their trade there.
We plod on... boringly. Kudos btw to the poster who mentioned a while back the lad Kieffer Moore... a real warrior, and his goal against Reading last week was fooking sublime!!!
260 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:05:38
I should also say, that I doubt that it's a dumb acceptance by anybody. I get massively frustrated and pissed off by the defensive mistakes, goalkeeping errors, missed chances etc etc. These can and should be sorted, but human errors will occur, because as John says, players are human.
What you can't do unfortunately is inject pace or class or skill into players, but you're right, honest-to-God effort and will to win doesn't half help, and can get the rest of the team and the crowd up too.
Nothing we can do about the Mosses of this world though.
261 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:31:31
262 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:36:43
263 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:39:50
It was an above average United team, currently in good form, but entirely beatable. Those are games we should win. We outplayed them on the whole (for me), and we simply can't accept this as a good result if we're ever to be a force in the Premier League.
And talk of our midfield being a weak link is spot on for just about every game this year, except Sunday's. Gomes was Gomes, and Tom was fantastic in the second half. So that excuse doesn't wash for a sub-par result.
Speaking of the second half, I had to watch from my phone. The phone was stuck in dark mode. If you ever want to watch ghouls play footy, and everyone is some weird translucent white no matter what their actual skin pigmentation, I highly suggest it. I'll never condone drugs, but eating mushrooms before watching in dark mode could get interesting.
264 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:46:55
Most of the teams in the league are beatable this season, even the ghouls seemingly! That in many ways is the most frustrating aspect of it all.
265 Posted 03/03/2020 at 14:48:30
266 Posted 03/03/2020 at 15:00:15
Gifted both teams the points and we should not be classing last Sunday's draw as a good result. Both games were shit results becuase we can't defend or convert our chances.
267 Posted 03/03/2020 at 15:07:39
If you can't be great, be hard to play against... and this is how I viewed the second half, and hope it's one of the main signs of things to come.
I wasn't being serious about Michael either, he says it as he sees it, just like most people on T/W!
268 Posted 03/03/2020 at 15:33:13
I watched it from kick off and Utd dominated midfield for most of the first half and felt a goal was coming. As it was we gifted them the goal. Twice really, both with poor defensive play and poor goalkeeping.
As it is, we lost to Arsenal, gifting them goals, with poor defensive play, and missed chances ourselves. But in both matches who can say a better midfield wouldn't have made a difference at both ends of the field?
We have two players scoring goals, with the next top scorers scoring 2 or 3 only. Mina is up there with 2. We had a similar situation last season. It would take a hard heart to criticise Dominic or Richarlison this season, so who should be responsible for the extra goals, or creating the chances?
Effort and will to win is great and it definitely helps. Gomes getting match fit will definitely help. But it will never be the complete solution this team needs. And I don't think that solution is to hand.
Nobody is saying that the results are good, but the performances were better than the results. Nobody is accepting mediocrity, but given the flaws in midfield, and elsewhere too, maybe top 5 is just beyond this squad, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it and demand it.
If Moss hadn't intervened, and that goal had stood, how would people have judged the performance?
269 Posted 03/03/2020 at 15:46:06
We all of us have our own way of expressing ourselves, where some may say "That was utter crap", or words to that effect, I would say "That was a very disappointing performance." We're both right of course, but I find my way more pleasant on the ear, and less likely to cause offence but, in the end, I suppose it's "Each to his own''.
270 Posted 03/03/2020 at 16:37:49
So I hope in the summer Carlo adds players in midfield who have goals in them, as relying on 2 strikers to score the majority of the goals will not help us achieve a European place.
271 Posted 03/03/2020 at 20:47:20
272 Posted 03/03/2020 at 22:01:19
Wolves or Man U.
I believe the Champions League places would go down to 6th place if Man City is banned next season.
That's why I'm so bent out of shape with this decision. There's a massive door opening for us we need to walk through!
273 Posted 03/03/2020 at 22:08:05
274 Posted 04/03/2020 at 10:11:17
275 Posted 04/03/2020 at 13:37:56
Pretty sure they get five if there's a Europa League Winner?
So in this case Top 4 would turn into top 5 with Man City's exclusion. If an English team wins the Europa and therefore qualifies for CL and that team was in a qualifying position to begin with, the country gets another slot in the CL.
I read it a Top 6 with a Europa League winner from England in the top 6, and Man City's expulsion.
I could be wrong.
276 Posted 04/03/2020 at 14:27:10
277 Posted 04/03/2020 at 14:44:17
So 6th would indeed qualify for the Champions League if a Premier League team wins the Europa League and Man City are banned.
Five maximum teams in Champions League. Top 4 + Champions League winner with Man City disqualified takes the Champions League spots to 6th.
The door has never been this wide open.
279 Posted 05/03/2020 at 14:32:33
In the Premier League, it appears to have been used as a weapon to preserve the dominance of a group of clubs whose "Financial Fair Play" gerrymander hasn't played out properly. VAR has been used as a way of getting a second opinion in favour of the favoured teams when the ref couldn't think of one on the pitch.
On the Pickford front, would anyone in their right mind want to swap him for the De Gea who not only gave Calvert-Lewin a hilarious free goal, but was completely beaten by what, by any objective, law-governed and non-corrupt standards was Everton's winning goal?
And how about the glorious Adrian howler where he appears to save the ball then throw it into his own goal? Pickford has done nothing as bad as either of those things.
280 Posted 06/03/2020 at 18:26:47
Thanks for the link.
It simplifies the process and combinations.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.