Skipper and manager offer no excuses for Molineux surrender

Sunday, 12 July, 2020 184comments  |  Jump to last

Seamus Coleman has described Everton's atrocious performance at Wolves as shocking and Carlo Ancelotti declared it unacceptable after what was the Blues' second defeat in three games.

Ancelotti's side were comfortably beaten by a Wolves side that still has a mathematical chance of qualifying for the Champions League, aspirations that seem well beyond this Toffees team that barely threatened Rui Patricio's goal in a comprehensive 3-0 loss.

Everton conceded goals either side of half-time, first to a Raul Jimenez penalty and then to Leander Dendoncker's header before Diogo Jota slammed home a third and it would have been worse had Adama Traore not planted a sitter onto the crossbar late on.

“[It was] shocking,” Coleman admitted. “Really, really bad. No hiding places. You know, they were better all over the pitch and we need to ask some serious questions of ourselves.

“We can all play bad[ly], we can all mis-place passes, we can all mis-place crosses but when the attitude's not there, when the desire's not there and we've come away here today and got beat by the better team, we need to take a hard look at ourselves and maybe we're not where we think we are.

“You know, we're 12th in the table for a reason and, as individuals in the dressing room and as a club, we need to be expecting better and the lads really need to dig in, myself included, and get our heads down or that won't be good enough for this manager and it's most certainly not good enough for this football club.

“Sometimes [a lack of attitude and desire] are things you have to say,” the skipper continued. “Quality-wise, we've got some very good players but the desire and commitment wasn't there today. Around the place, we need to have more commitment on a daily basis and really come together.

"We will move forward because that won't be good enough for this manager. If you're not giving your all on the pitch and the training ground, that'll be it, 'See you later' because he's not going to put up with performances like this.

"We can't keep hiding behind managers. We've hid behind managers long enough."

Ancelotti was equally forthright in his assessment of the team's display, even allowing for the changes he had to make due to injuries to André Gomes, Mason Holgate and Yerry Mina.

The Italian questioned the professionalism of his players, expressed his doubts that Everton's players believed they could qualify for Europe this season and said that he will be demanding an improvement over the final three matches.

“It was a really frustrating performance. Really bad. We didn't show a good attitude, we didn't show good play. We were in control defensively in the first half but offensively we didn't have ideas. We were confused.

“I think the best way to handle this moment is [charge] the players [with] showing a different attitude and forget this performance that was really bad.

“The message from [Seamus] is very good. His team-mates should follow his example. I think [having] moved away from relegation so quickly, the players are a little bit comfortable and, for this reason, they lost a bit of spirit.

“But performances like today are not acceptable.

"I have said to the players that the attitude was unacceptable and it has to change immediately. The result doesn't matter. They have to show professionalism on the pitch."  


Reader Comments (184)

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Max Murphy
1 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:04:12
That should do the trick!

Win the next three games comfortably then qualify for the Champions League next season.

David Mosses
2 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:13:15
Another pathetic performance, the middle of the park is totally useless, how Davies and Sigurdsson can call themselves midfielders I don't know. You have a young lad who is more capable than those two phonies and he would give his all for the team.

Until we get a decent centre-midfielder the better, you have to feel sorry for the strikers – absolutely no service but at least they still try. Marcel Brands has a lot to answer for.

Brent Stephens
3 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:24:23
From Seamus:

1. “Shocking”. My very words.

2. “We can all play bad[ly], we can all mis-place passes, we can all mis-place crosses but when the attitude's not there, when the desire's not there and we we've come away here today and got beat by the better team.“ Our own captain acknowledges it's an attitude and desire issue.

3. “Around the place, we need to have more commitment on a daily basis and really come together.“ Wow – “on a daily basis” speaks volumes.

David Connor
4 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:31:38
Been here before haven't we? Doesn't wash anymore with the fans. Richarlison apart, the rest can just go and fuck off to another club for me.

Ritchie apart, there's not one of them would make a start for any of the top 4 clubs. They are all piss-poor footballers on top money taking the fucking piss.

Time for Ancelotti and Brands to start earning their money. No more!
Alun Jones
5 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:33:31
Depressing stuff, I think mostly because, once we conceded the first goal, I just could not see us getting back into this match. For the majority of the first 45, we had looked reasonably secure despite some half-chances and I maybe thought if we got in at 0-0 we had a chance in the second half.

But again we are too slow in moving the ball, our centre-midfielders too ponderous and our inability to play through the press is becoming so predictable. Sad to say that with over 200 Million Quid's worth of talent out there we were awful.

Big job for Carlo in the summer I hope he is up for the fight more than some of our players today.

Nicholas Ryan
6 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:36:36
Well, at least they're telling it like it is!!
Dave Abrahams
7 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:37:23
For all the words and holding up of hands, will we be any better versus Villa on Thursday? I doubt it but I know Villa will fight for every ball.

They have a better midfield than Everton because every team in the Premier League has a better midfield than us, and that is when they are all fit.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:38:57
"We will move forward... blah blah blah... yadda yadda".

Nothing ever changes, same spiel every year after lurching from one embarrassing season to another.

All fart, no shit – that's Everton. No bottle to actually try and achieve anything... Bloody hell, we haven't even got the bottle to try and win football matches now.

Disgrace to the shirt, the lot of them – and they should be donating their wages to a good cause after this.

Mark Tanton
9 Posted 12/07/2020 at 16:48:01
Wow, you don't often hear a manager call for 'professionalism' from 60 grand a week 'professionals'.
Brian Murray
10 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:01:13
All very commendable words from the skipper. However, the likes of him are the problem, not the solution. We go cap in hand with fat contracts to players over 30 because we can't or won't find any better on this planet.

Brands getting well sussed unless he has a brilliant master plan in the window. He's shown nothing so I doubt it.

Kenwright Out.

Justin Doone
11 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:08:03
Understandably, there's a lot of negative comments after a defeat.

Our performances since the restart have been terrible but we had looked better as a defensive unit. Until the last two matches.

What the manager was doing with the starting line-up today was a gamble that backfired. He has to take some responsibility.

However our general play has been poor for weeks. Sadly, Carlo's and or the players' first thought is play the ball back. This is simply wrong, it's negative and defines our general play and attitude.

Get Duncan back in charge (okay, I don't mean that) but stop messing around at the back and get the ball forward quickly down the channels. Play simple football for our simple players.

Most fans know we lack top-class players. Only Richarlison plays and puts the effort in as a top-class player. Digne and Coleman are just below that level, and then there's some youngsters with potential: Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Gordon.

We need more pace and general fitness all over. Players should not stop moving, closing down as a team or moving forward into space.

We all know what we need. Central defender, central midfielder, winger and a striker. 4 top class, hungry players minimum. Happy to get unknown or lower level players as long as they have the athleticism, energy, skill and desire to give their all.

Then, the young players and Gomes, even Bernard, can step up and show their quality, which they have; they just need coaching and better players to do the basics around them.

The basics being able to run forwards into space, pass and put a cross in. Not hard.

Martin Berry
12 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:13:22
A blessing that Carlo is now seeing it as it really is and not through tinted shades.

Oh for Joe Royle's Dogs of War, three scavengers to get a grip of that midfield and then play to an artisan or two.

Over to Carlo and Marcel.

Oliver Molloy
13 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:15:33
Seamus Coleman is a very good guy, he is approaching the end of his career.
He would dearly love to win something or achieve Champions League qualification with the club but it is not going to happen for him or us; when you are not good enough – you are not good enough, end of story.

Coleman as captain has to say something; he really gets the club and understands the fans' frustrations but actions speak louder than words and we Evertonians have heard it all, so I expect to see a very different side next season – even if we are skint!

One player who needs a serious rocket up his arse is Pickford; he needs to be dropped, that would send a clear message to everyone that this fucking shite is just not acceptable any more!

Those of you who think we will win our last three games are in cuckoo land.

Pat Kelly
14 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:23:40
It's just not acceptable.

Well, that should make a whole lot of difference.

Richard Lyons
15 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:28:52
I can't see where any improvement can possibly come from, unless there is a massive clear-out of the many mediocre players and replacement with better ones... and of course, that's not going to happen, is it?

So next season will be, at best, the same as this, although hopefully without the relegation form at the start.

I have this niggling fear that Everton might expose Ancelotti's true colours, just like we did for Walter Smith: great on paper, but actually "not that good".

Dennis Stevens
16 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:29:07
I hadn't realised it was a lunchtime kick-off and so missed the match – I feel like I'm gloating by posting that! However, it does seem like the team are loosening their grip on "top of the bottom half" and running the risk of finishing 14th.

Like many others, I just can't wait for this shit-show of a season to end. Although it seems as if many of the players have given up for the season already.

Joe McMahon
17 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:36:15
Missed the match on purpose. I had a few hours out instead, in the sun – and more enjoyable. Not surprised at the result at all.

How did Pickford and Calvert-Lewin play? Outside of midfield, these two are my biggest concerns.

Paul Hewitt
18 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:50:13
Richard @15. Ancelotti, not that good?

The guys won league titles all round Europe, and 3 Champions Leagues. If that's not good, I'm okay with it.

Jim Bennings
19 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:55:50
Justin,

I'm oblivious how you can really class Tom Davies as potential.

The fella has played 100 games and at 22 we should be seeing something from him other than standing static fixing his Alice band every five minutes.

I'm sorry but he's got no good attributes to make it at this level, can't pass, absolutely slow as fuck, can't shoot, doesn't score enough goals, can someone please explain to me what he actually does?

Holgate is an okay player, better on the ball than actually heart on sleeve defending, maybe he looks better in defensive midfield?

Calvert-Lewin has improved but, to me, if we had Lukaku type striker or a Jamie Vardy, then Calvert-Lewin will be benched and used as a late sub as he's not good enough to be what we want to be.

I find zero positives in this squad — and don't even get me started on Pickford and his mental institute antics.

Kieran Kinsella
20 Posted 12/07/2020 at 17:58:20
Seamus has been saying the same thing at least once a month for 10 years.
Tony Everan
21 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:05:42
Crime and an insult to draw a wage this week.
Jack Convery
22 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:10:06
So there are problems behind the scenes with certain players having a bad attitude on a daily basis. In other words, those who want to succeed are totally pissed off with those who don't give a fuck. Team spirit is therefore non-existent and without that you have nothing.

I never want to see Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Bernard, Pickford, Delph, Mina, Iwobi, in our shirt again as they are all stealing a living. Keane and Coleman should be squad players now. Let Baines go as he obviously wants to play and who can blame him.

Play Kenny at right-back for at least one season and see how he goes. Buy McNeil 㿅M, Gabriel 㿅M, Allan 㿀M, Forster 㾽M, Holjberg 㾻M, Rabiot 㿊M = 𧴼M. Lozano on loan: ١M. Left back on loan: £?M Striker on loan: £?M Net spend: approx 𧵄M-ish.

Raise the cash from sales and loans if we have to. Sigurdsson 㾶M, Davies ٣M, Walcott 㾸M, Pickford 㿅M, Mina 㾾M, Iwobi 㾻M, Bernard 㾻M, Delph 㾶M, Bolasie ٠M, Dowell ١M. Total: 𧴫M. Loan Kean back to Italy for a season, ٣M gives us 𧴰M. Besic... free transfer.

Net spend: 㿔m.

Bill Kenwright: I am available at ٠,000 a week, saving you god knows how much.

Goalkeepers: Forster, Lössl, Virginia.
Defenders: Kenny, Holgate, Gabriel, Digne, Coleman, Keane, Branthwaite, Loanee (left-back).
Midfielders: Gordon, Gomes, Allan, Raboit, McNeill, Lozano, U23 prospect.
Strikers: Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Loanee, U23 prospect.

All the losers and those with a lack of commitment, talent or poor attitude –out the door.

If only...

Tony Everan
23 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:13:29
Some optimistic selling prices there, Jack. Get that kind of money and they'll double your 2 bags of sand pw.
Dan Nulty
24 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:23:51
I genuinely cannot believe someone has compared Ancelotti to Walter Smith. I'm weeping into my beer at that.

And as for what they have said. It's is right but talk is cheap. Really cheap.

I only saw effort and desire from Digne today. Could see his frustration with his team mates. People keep telling me Richarlison is the only player we have that could play for a top 4 side. I'd have him over all the rest of the league's left backs bar Robertson. Richarlison was woeful today, didn't even try but he got no service from midfield again. Nothing.

Appalled by today and rapidly losing patience with these players. If Ancelotti can't get a tune out of them then they aren't good enough. We can't blame the manager anymore. Walter Smith. FFS. Scotland league titles compared with domestic league and Champions League titles around Europe. I shake my head.

Andrew Bentley
25 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:28:15
The really worrying thing is when you start going through the team and areas we need to address, you end up with us needing around 8 new players. There's no chance we can get that many in.

Pickford is not good enough so we need a goalkeeper if we really want to challenge at the top end of the league. I fear he's turning into Joe Hart!

Then we need a commanding centre-back as our defending is shambolic; a new right-back to replace Coleman. A whole new midfield (right-midfielder, 2 central-midfielders, and a left-midfielder), and a quality striker. Oh and at least a couple of them to be some leaders on the pitch!!!

Let's be realistic: it will take us years to recruit this lot. So expect continued dross for another year or two!

Kieran Kinsella
26 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:28:43
Walter Smith wasn't that bad, he was just kind of old school and dealt a bad hand. We didn't get relegated under him or Howard Kendall Mk III, which is a miracle looking at the teams.
Danny Broderick
27 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:29:44
Carlo simply has to lay down the law now. This is the most difficult job he has ever had. Some of these players have got their flip flops on already ready for their summer holidays. The fact that Coleman has said they have to improve their attitude and desire, and improve on a daily basis, is damning. Ancelloti has also questioned their professionalism. He needs to be tough now and instill discipline.

I am amazed he has continued picking Sigurdsson. This guy is the biggest culprit. Ancelloti needs to make clear to certain players that they have no future - get their agents looking for another club if they want to play football.

Dropping Pickford would be another way to show the players who is boss. Pickford is on easy street. He's making mistakes every game. He needs to feel he is under pressure for his place.

I would rather we play some kids and players with a chance of improving – like Kean – than continuing to pick the players who have now let down 4/5 managers and who are back to their old tricks now...

Jim Bennings
28 Posted 12/07/2020 at 18:44:54
The workshy shit has been going on for too long at Everton.

Remember when we signed Aaron Lennon on loan and Baines said he shamed the other players into hard work by running his bollocks off?

I think Everton Football Club is just too cushy a place now: high wages for players that want an easy life with no pressure on ever winning anything and too many perks at that Finch Farm facility. I think they all worked far harder when it was Bellefield without all the trimmings.

It does make you wonder what they do in training now because they look bladdered from the very first minute.

I didn't expect Ancelotti to turn it round overnight but I did not think I'd still be seeing performance levels like today, Southampton, Spurs last Monday, or the Chelsea twatting before lockdown... the embarrassment of a derby loss to the Kopite Kindergarten in January was pretty appalling too.

I thought the players would be busting a gut for this manager, I really did. Gone are the days when Moyes had them fit and we always had a late cavalry charge, throwing the kitchen sink at teams.

Derek Powell
29 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:11:31
I am done. 60 years... cannot take another year
Julian Exshaw
30 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:11:44
There are well over 20 synonyms of 'abysmal' in the English language but that wouldn't be enough to describe what we witnessed today. It has to be in the top 10 of Everton horror shows since I've been a fan. It was just the pits!

So, where do we go from here? We might get a point or two before the season ends and then it's a big 6 weeks for Carlo to make his mark. I don't know if he is the man for the task but one thing is for sure: unless he resigns, Moshiri will stick with him.

Do we follow Sheffield Utd's hard-working but bread-and-butter way? Isn't it quite patronising even to say that? They are miles better than us at the moment.

Do we follow the Wolves approach? They have done in 2 or 3 years what we have been trying since 2005 when Moyes (almost) took us to the Champions League.

I mentioned in a post earlier in the week that we don't have bad players. They are as good as anyone who wears the Sheffield Utd jersey. It is all a matter of attitude as opposed to ability. What all our managers have lacked in the last 10 years is the ability to get these lads 'up for it'. That has to change.

We are the snails of the Premier League. Have you seen a team in the Premier League with a slower build-up? There's no slick passing, there are no shots from distance, there are no 'wow' moments. It's all painting by numbers, safety first, insipid rubbish.

So, I am prepared to overlook this shambles... but a positive and energetic start is a must in September. It can't get worse than today though.

Tony Everan
31 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:16:59
These shambolic performances bring Everton FC into disrepute.

Digne and Richarlison will be getting itchy feet. We need quality like Coutinho in the team. We need killers in the centre of the park that take it personally when we lose possession. All midfield positions. Three signings needed desperately. Forget stage 2 until this is done.

Then sell Mina and get a better left-sided centre-back.

Get Kenny back for right-back, give him a good run to establish himself, keep Seamus as backup.

Then sell or loan Kean back to Italy and get an experienced quality centre-forward to challenge Calvert-Lewin as a starter. We are too one-dimensional up front, we need more attacking options and more competition.

Who we could get, I don't know... but this lack of striking options is hurting us too. Kean in that role has backfired spectacularly; he is too young, too raw and not ready. We need to address it.

It is way more transfer wheeling and dealing than I would like. But, after these recent games, we can't just sit on our hands and hope for the best.

Action is needed to purge this team of the cancerous complacency and mediocrity that has half-eaten its way through too many of our players.

Marcel Brands has to now step up to the plate and get Carlo's players in. This close season is crunch time for Marcel and for the immediate future of our beloved club.

Dan Nulty
32 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:17:17
I'm not saying Walter Smith was bad. I'm saying he isn't in the same league as Ancelotti as a manager. Record says it all.

I'm genuinely bemused at anyone blaming our current predicament on Ancelotti. The bloke is several classes above the players he is trying to coach and manage currently. We need some rabbits out of cheap hats in the summer.

Will Mabon
33 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:21:54
I have to agree with all of that, Jim (28). Others (and me) have mentioned before the strange, pervasive vein of lethargy that has run through this club for a long time. It's as if something is embedded deep in the fabric that resists all attempts at re-engineering.

All the managers including and from Koeman, and the many changes of player, not forgetting implementing a DOF; there hasn't been an improvement under any of the managers that amounts to even a fraction of their various personalities and tactical input, against the drab, default starting point of the squad.

We don't have a Man City squad; yes, we've brought in some donkeys... but we have enough reasonably good players and promising youngsters to perform much better than this. At least in commitment, organization and endeavour, if not results.

Notwithstanding his desire to be a PR genius above football manager toward the end of Bobby BS' rein, I wonder if it all started then in the background. An inordinate decline on the back of our most watchable and developing team for years. We seem to have cultivated a failure gene. Several short periods of improvement lasting a handful of games is all we've had. The rest of it, well, variations of today's fayre.

There is no foundation, no basis, no repeatable "Save ass" team structure to fall back on when things are not going well, a professional and understood framework, where each knows and can deliver what is required, however prosaic.

Is it the water at Finch Farm? Is there a glaring dietary problem waiting to be found? Being realistic about the quality of our squad in the scheme of the Premier League, we should not be this bad with the manager we have. It seems the trouble lies mysteriously beyond.

Patrick McFarlane
34 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:22:01
I can't agree with those that say that we've heard it all before with regards to Coleman's after-match comments. These are cutting words from a player who might not always be as good as we'd like him to be, but it would take a very brave person to accuse him of failing to try.

Of course, many Everton Captains and senior players over the last half-decade and before, have sugar-coated poor performances or have given a clarion call to the team and fans that they would do better next time out.

Today's statement by Coleman is none of those things, it is a calling out of fellow professionals, an accusation that they aren't taking their profession seriously, it's a shout out that they are not working hard enough in training or during a game, that in effect they are stealing a living.

It is a call for them to get their collective fingers out and start earning their livings or face plying their trade elsewhere. The manager has also said that the performance was lacking professionalism and was unacceptable.

Now comes the difficult part: changing those poor attitudes and therefore automatically increasing Everton's chances of winning football matches whilst also trying to ship out those who refuse to change their attitudes.

Ability and talent are limited to some extent but working hard isn't, it's dependent on how badly you want to impress your boss, how much pride you have in your work, or whatever it is that inspires you to give your all.

Some of those players on show in recent weeks, won't be with us for much longer, but the majority will; how they react to Coleman's and Ancelotti's words will determine the club's near term future.

There won't be wholesale changes in the window, the players know that, so the baton passes to the Italian manager and his staff to attempt to find out what it is that makes this current squad believe that they as individuals can turn up and play, as and when they feel like it. An answer to that question may get to the root of the issue and perhaps the staff can then find a solution and a way forward.

To carry on as we have for the past few years, exemplified by this week's feeble efforts, cannot and should not be tolerated by anybody connected with Everton FC.

Tony Williams
35 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:23:13
No doubt Aston Villa will come to Goodison on Thursday with a cup final attitude. We need to show desire to win as much as them (should be a given every game but it's not at Everton). Having said that, we have lost 3 out of 4 games against the bottom 3 this season.
Will Mabon
36 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:27:17
Occasionally, people in the game have asked, "How do you motivate young multi-millionaires?" Can't say I have any experience but obviously some clubs and managers do.

The horrible lack of motivation in this team, this squad, is the biggest problem here.

Will Mabon
37 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:33:13
Three out of four against the bottom three – scarier than our record against the top six!
Colin Glassar
38 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:36:26
I agree Patrick, this is different from all the crap we used to hear from the likes of Neville and Jags. This sounds personal and it's obviously embarrassed Seamus to come out so strongly.

Ancellotti never publicly criticises his teams so this is another indication, imo, that there's a lot of bad apples causing problems behind the scenes.

The continuous listless, lifeless, spineless displays by the likes of Iwobi, Walcott, Davies, Sigurdsson, Bernard etc... cannot continue without severe consequences. They are shite and now, Carlo knows it.

Tony Hill
39 Posted 12/07/2020 at 19:47:28
Will @33, you state the mystery very well. We have a particular brand of nervous, droopy failure at the club. It needs some extraordinary types to dig it out, to reset the whole thing. I hope Carlo and Marcel fit that bill... but, so far, not so good.

We need a shot of something to start our heart, quite urgently.

Tony Twist
40 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:02:40
Just shows the mentality of these so called footballers. The nearest neighbours have won the Premier League at a canter; that hurts Evertonians, so what do these sons of bitches do?

Act as if they are hard done by and deserve a rest — not up their game, not put a little more effort in, mess up then smile at the camera and just basically rub our noses in it some more.

The signs are there for all to see, the RS improving season upon season until the inevitable whereas we, season upon season, are imploding. Charlatans the lot of them.

Jay Woods
41 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:19:20
Ancelotti has always had elite players to work with, whether at Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern or, to a lesser degree, Napoli. Now he has offal.

There is only one way out and it's not just graft, as some surmise; it's a personnel transfusion that's required, new blood in the squad. Because, when you look at when this shower of plodders have actually bothered to play the shirts off their backs, they have still looked unconvincing.

So I despair when I see us linked to more mediocre, career professionals, destined to go through the motions en route to lifelong financial security. I didn't see Man City or Chelsea targeting anything less than the best their new money could buy when they started out on their restoration of good fortune missions, so why are we being linked with average players like the kid today who plays in a woeful Schalke midfield? Nothing will change on the field while ambitions are so muted and bland behind the scenes.

Graeme Beresford
42 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:27:37
Just makes me laugh. We all love Everton but it's no surprise we obtain good players, make them better, then they want to leave because of our inability to forge a winning mentality and challenge for something, Europe or a trophy. It's become the norm for us.

Maybe there isn't a way out of it; maybe the fact we have had all of these managers in such a short period of time is because they arrive with aspirations to do well and quickly realise the club is unfortunately stale, draining and weak-minded.

I just don't know what to think. We matched Liverpool, got lucky against Norwich, got lucky against Leicester, and then finally our luck ran out against Tottenham, Saints and now Wolves. What's worrying is that the performances since the Liverpool game have actually been terrible.

Too many poor players on big money with big egos and bad attitudes. I don't know how we are ever going to compete with teams who are eclipsing us: Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield Utd are all miles above us and seem to be buying the right players to get the job done.

Poor all around. Poor... poor, and we are all fed up.

Joe McMahon
43 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:46:44
Jay @41, this is my concern (I'm not even counting Zidane), but Carlo has had midfielders such as Seedorf, Pirlo and the very much under-rated Frank Lampard. Everton have not had any midfield player of such calibre since a brief period in the '80s. Gary Speed and Steven Pienaar being the only standouts since (mentions to Cahill and Arteta).

We also have had bog all upfront apart from Richarlison (who will be off – possibly at the end of the season). Lukaku's goals papered over many cracks, and it's been showing since he left, just like it did before he arrived.

What a pitiful awful club Everton FC truely are. Decades of miss-management and a huge downward spiral. How Leicester and Wolves are run as football clubs is something to really admire, the recruitment of both clubs is bang on. Our club (Everton) has just let us down too many times.

Rob Halligan
44 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:49:41
Ah, the mighty Leicester are getting tonked by Bournemouth 4 - 1.

How shit are Leicester!!

Colin Glassar
45 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:49:44
Both Villa and Bournemouth will batter us if we play like we did today, never mind Sheffield United.
Drew O'Neall
46 Posted 12/07/2020 at 20:52:28
The problem is that it is acceptable.

It's acceptable to the manager.

It's acceptable to the board.

It's acceptable to the fans.

Come to Everton where anything's acceptable.

Roman Sidey
47 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:03:09
The commentators mentioned that Wolves were closing in on 60 matches for the season. Their squad is about the same size as Everton's. Everton will be around the low 40s by the end of the season. Which team out there looked like they'd played nearly 20 more matches than the other?
Nick Page
48 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:03:49
“Others (and me) have mentioned before the strange, pervasive vein of lethargy that has run through this club for a long time. It's as if something is embedded deep in the fabric that resists all attempts at re-engineering.”

Will Mabon, this is commonly known as Kenwright-itis, a nasty and insidious disease that affects the patient with sporadic bouts of anecdotal yarning, teary boorish storytelling, and most of all, an over-inflated sense of self-worth – all the while condemning those infected to utter mediocrity. It has been affecting the club for, as you say, a long time.

People (supporters?) that can't see this need only look to the continued role of Ferguson on the coaching staff and previously the recruitment of Rooney, amongst other transfer deals he helped to broker (including the much protracted Sigurdsson deal) which helped set the club back years.

After all, Bill asked for an investor – NOT a takeover – and people wonder why he still lingers on.

Dave Williams
49 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:04:26
Insipid stuff. When you look at the long list of fine players who have represented this club and then consider the current squad, it could make you heave!

For starters, Pickford. Okay, we all make mistakes but, when he does, I want to see him angry with himself and not laughing as if he couldn't give a stuff. Imagine Neville Southall laughing if he cocked up like Pickford does every game?

Then we have Coleman – brave words after the game but why does he not, as skipper, get stuck into his underperforming colleagues on the pitch, when it is still possible to get some effort out of them?

Walcott is never going to provide grit and should never have been bought.

Sigurdsson is finished at this level and is out of his comfort zone.

Davies needs decent players around him to allow him to show his best form.

Gordon has ability and puts in effort.

Digne is a good player and it looks like it is important to him.

Richarlison likewise but he did nothing today apart from scowl; lack of effort or more likely pissed off with his teammates.

Calvert-Lewin usually grafts but has been out of sorts lately, most likely due to lack of service.

Iwobi doesn't seem too bothered.

Bernard rarely has an impact on the game.

Carlo really has got to get to the root of all this and move out the players responsible for the collective lack of effort and desire. We water the pitch at Goodison before a game and again at half-time but why? Our passing is so slow and so rarely forward, we don't need a wet pitch to help us to zip the ball around.

Our movement off the ball is non-existent, we never support our strikers, and the midfield won't tackle, won't pass forward, and won't run beyond the strikers to threaten the goal.

If this malaise has been going on at Finch Farm for years, then absolutely all concerned – players and staff – should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

I really hope Carlo picks a few kids against Aston Villa so we at least get some effort – those who are the subject of the criticism of Carlo and Seamus should be dropped from the squad. Utterly shameful!!

Jim Bennings
50 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:06:23
Well done to Bournemouth, limited side quality wise but so refreshing to see a team continue to push forward even with the game won.

Football is not about fear, as we at Everton would have you believe.

Allan Board
51 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:08:46
I was going to post a long, meaningful piece on all things shit about Everton. However, since about 1990 (and but for 1995 and 2013-14) it's ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS!

So I can't be fucking bothered – much like the tossers that play for Everton.

Stay safe all.

Mike Doyle
52 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:11:43
How sad it is that most posters (me included) really don't fancy our chances against the mighty Sheffield Utd, whose squad will include Phil Jagielka, John Lundstram and Jack Rodwell.

Andy Crooks
53 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:19:18
Yes, Drew. Just a meaningless platitude. Unacceptable to whom? What does this refusal to accept actually mean? Not one fucking thing.

Who among those earning a living at our club will be really, really hurting tonight? I would suggest... not a fucking one of them.

We will – all of us who are proud to be Evertonians – we will be upset. Not the hired hands who have no concept of shame, no notion of pride, no idea of what it really means to have the honour of wearing that shirt.

I would really love to know what the cunts are up to at this very minute. I would guess chilling out, having a nice time enjoying a lifestyle we cannot envisage. They have no right to it today. They will certainly not be fretting about it the way we are.

Every passionless insipid effort makes me care less and less. They don't.

Jim Bennings
54 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:27:33
Mike

I'll tell you what though: Jags would have walked into our defence at times this season given the amount of wanky goals we piss up.

Will Mabon
55 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:41:55
Nick @ 48,

There are many things attributable to Bill Kenwright, and his influence on the composition of the team and staff of today. Many things are not ideal at different levels. I don't agree with everything Kenwright has done; I know what you're saying.

Whilst a lot of the direction is broadly steered from above, whatever gets changed in the coming years, we should expect to see something from the team on the field, this being the whole point of it all.

They're professional footballers. When those players take to the pitch, whoever runs or owns the operation, is of no consequence. However shit any of them may be, they're playing beneath their own selves in my opinion.

Ian Riley
56 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:42:27
The holiday period is over! This comes with a new manager. I was excited to have Carlo but we are simply not ready yet for a manager of his stature. Yes, I know, Sam and David, not good enough for Everton Football Club. Why? Carlo wants to play from the back. That's okay with world class midfielders to press from back to front quickly.

My worry is we are finishing on a low this season. Turning form around and style to win games is going to take a long time. The team needs five additions. Carlo needs to consider if he can take us forward or leave for someone who has managed mid table teams to improve gradually. Next season is a recovery season. Sorry but Europe is a holiday destination not for Everton yet. We are miles off top six.

We are not hungry enough as a team to win matches. Desire comes from the top. Let's hope 3 or 4 signings are already lined up or we really are in trouble. On a lighter note, does anyone know how we have a waiting list for season tickets watching that lot??

Sean Kelly
57 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:44:51
What Seamus and Carlo said, us supporters have been saying for years. It's a culture thing at Everton. Cosy and comfy don't rock the boat mid-table mediocrity.

We have accepted it for years and allowed it to thrive. This club is a retirement home for failures. What the hell Carlo is doing here is beyond me. Money? Maybe.

You don't need professIonalism to have pride. It's basic. Lads and lassies playing Sunday league football up and down our countries play with pride. They don't want to let themselves or their teammates down. Their peers will call them out if they just turn up and don't put a shift in. They do it for fuck all.

The shite we support should be diverted towards those locals that give everything for no reward. I'm done with this club and its treatment of its supporters. They don't deserve us. Far too many at this club don't give a shit except pick up an inflated wage every week to match their inflated fucking egos. I could care less how many new players they get in or who they get in. It will be just more of the same shit with the same excuses. Fucking tosspots, the lot of them.

For over 60 years, I have supported this club. I have enjoyed the high and got frustrated at the lows. Never in that time have I become so pissed off with the playing staff, management and those at Finch Farm as I am now.

There is a disease at this club and it needs to be gutted. I hope Carlo is a good surgeon.

Will Mabon
58 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:45:16
"On a lighter note, does anyone know how we have a waiting list for season tickets watching that lot??"

At least there's nothing wrong with the fans.

Christy Ring
59 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:56:30
Patrick @34 Completely agree.

You can criticise Seamus, but he always gives his all, and has pride in the jersey. Isn't it shocking that he more or less said, some of his team mates, were lacking professionalism, didn't put in a shift. Other words I'd use are "cheats" and "cowards", and "shouldn't wear the Everton jersey again", NSNO.

In the last two games, Neville singled out Sigurdsson against Spurs, and Carragher singled him out today, enough said.

Grealish and McGinn must be licking their lips.

Mike Doyle
60 Posted 12/07/2020 at 21:58:22
Ian #56,

I was thinking the same about Carlo just yesterday while watching the coverage of Jack Charlton. I recall Jack once made the point that many elite players struggled as managers as they didn't quite know how to help players who didn't possess their level of playing ability.

I wonder if Carlo finds himself in a not dissimilar position – trying to get performances out of a group of players who are not up to the standard of those he has been managing for the last 20 years – and seemingly lacking in desire / professional pride too.

Or maybe he sussed most of them out in the first few weeks or matches and accepted he cannot start the surgery until the next transfer window opens.

Julie Naybour
61 Posted 12/07/2020 at 22:39:22
Patrick McFarlane, I totally agree. In fact Coleman's post-match interview is the one and only thing today that has given me one shred of hope.

He is outstanding as a person, as a sportsman and as an Evertonian and I suspect he is hurting as much as we are.

Otherwise it was an utter disgrace.

Rick Pattinson
62 Posted 13/07/2020 at 00:32:21
I'd Keep Holgate and Coleman and Richarlison and Digne (the two that'll leave in summer, I guarantee it) but literally the rest of 'em are a disgrace.

Pickford is the next Joe Hart waiting to happen. Iwobi... what even are you????

Now we have a top manager finally worthy of giving a warchest... let's be clear on Ancelloti, he's one of the best in the world so we can stop blaming managers.

Nobody is going to get the best out of these lazy clowns that call themselves Everton players. This has gone on tooooo long!!!!

Jamie Crowley
63 Posted 13/07/2020 at 02:35:31
"We can't keep hiding behind managers. We've hid behind managers long enough."

Was anyone else shocked at this sentence from Seamus? It shouldn't shock me, but it absolutely did.

Kieran Kinsella
64 Posted 13/07/2020 at 04:04:20
Jamie

No I wasn't because he said the exact same thing when Silva was under the Kosh. Then afterwards he said he felt guilty as the players were to blame but it's always the manager who gets the chop. So it's not new. The problem is no one seems to care. Look at Tom Davies. He's played under four permanent managers and Unsworth. People say “he's a kid he hasn't had time.” He's played twice as many games for Everton as Andy Gray or Paul Power. He's played more than Limpar, more than Rodwell who we sold for profit at a similar age. But he's no good. We have some weird kind of charity case situation here where half the fans think he's above reproach but if he's half our midfield, and crap, that's a big problem.

Jim Bennings
65 Posted 13/07/2020 at 07:40:55
Keiran

We are too much of an old fools sentimental club.

Some fans are the same as the club itself, judgements clouded by sentimental views.

What did we do when Coleman first broke his leg?

We offered him a new 5 years, yes FIVE YEAR contract.

Not actually registering on board that he was getting older and whether or not the injury would have taken something out of his game like?

It's what we always do, bleat on about the players like we need to give them a home because they have been here a certain number of years or because they came through the ranks.

This club needs a ruthless streak that it's never actually had.

Eric Baddeley
66 Posted 13/07/2020 at 07:50:31
Totally agree Rick 62. This squad (save for those you mention + Gordon) are a shambolic bunch of individuals who couldn't conjure a goal against the Goodison groundstaff during their lunch break!
The negative, safe play of our midfield is boring and as predictable as our kick-off routine which is kick back to a CB who then tonks it down the park to wherever DCM has run to! FFS what we are playing looks nothing like football, if anything it resembles a beach kick-about while waiting for the tide to come back in.
Cannot believe me and my lad get up at 3am to watch this shit live!
Joe McMahon
67 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:10:51
Kieran and Jim 100% agree. The club is some kind of mawkish Everton Family retirement home. On this site alone people have been justifying Baines reduced 65k a week with "he's been a great servant for the club" for the past 4 years!

FFS people even get misty eyed over the Z Cars tune, this is supposed to be a professinal football club. Those wanting some kind of tribute to Archibald Leitch in any new stadium we may or may not ever have, why? We play in the same league as 2 of the 3 biggest global giants in world football (sadly one of them is a few hundred yards away), and we are still fed stories of how great the 60's and 80's teams were.

Rick, as error prone as Joe Hart was, he was still a better keeper than Pickford will ever be. Pickford is a disaster, and cocky with it.

Only a few days ago on this site someone stated Bil Kenwright is a Blue and cares. Well Peter Swales was also a blue that cared, and I don't think City fans want to go back to those days.

Barry Rathbone
68 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:20:20
Can someone tell Coleman to shut up his "call to arms" and "mea culpa" routines are wearing thin
Gary Willock
69 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:34:18
“Hello, i'm an addict”

“Hello, we've got a bunch of lazy, arrogant millionaire players who cba putting in a performance because they are already thinking about some more time off and don't care about their own pride and certainly not the fans pride.”

it all starts with a little bit of honesty, and it is often a simple explanation. It's refreshing to see some honesty after seeing our past managers talk about “moments” as some kind of excuses.

Jim@65 nails it above - “this club NEEDS a ruthless streak that it has never had”.

Moshiri, Brands and Carlo have a mountain to climb over next few months. We need at least 6 players who are going to improve this team. Winners, warriors, and most of all full of hunger. Anyone who doesn't show pride over next 3 games should have no more future here.

Next season needs:

GK - *New* first choice challenger.
RB - Kenny and Coleman
LB - Digne and a *new* young challenger.
RCB - Holgate and Keane
LCB - *new* first choice plus Gibson/Jarrad
LM - Gordon / Bernard
CM - *new* box to box and *new* cdm.
RM - *new* crosser and goal threat.
CF - ok here unless opportunity.

Out: Whoever we can find takers for out of Sigurdsson, Delph, Mina, Walcott, Tosun, Iwobi, Bolasie, Sandro, etc.

Big summer ahead crossroads once again.

Christy Ring
70 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:34:38
Barry @68 When Seamus questions his team mates, about lack of professionalism, the lack of effort, pride in the jersey, which he gives 100%, and you tell him to shut up??
Phil Lewis
71 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:40:37
Back to square one, yet again. We signed Pickford from a relegated Sunderland. Moyes sang his praises to the press and no doubt to Kenwright at that time. His early performances were enough for me. I recall being howled down at Goodison, in the pub and here on ToffeeWeb, for daring to say he was useless, regardless of a few spectacular saves for England. Last year I pleaded for him to be sold in order to recoup his fee. The more he is seen on TV and criticised by pundits, his price tag plummets. Sell now. Another season and we won't be able to give him away.
Is Ancelotti the answer? Once again I will stick my neck out. I very much doubt it. Yes he was a fine successful player and manager, winning consistently at the highest level. His motivation, drive, physical capability and mental agility, marking him out as one of the worlds finest, as a younger man. And that is the crucial point, his age. Did Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Bob Paisley, Brian Clough etc continue past their respective sell by dates? They had no more to prove and the motivation to succeed had past them by. Which begs the question, why would Ancelotti come to Goodison? I believe the answer is one last pay day. We have fallen into the same trap Spurs have with the so called 'special one'. Who apparently, is not so special now.
I look around and see younger lesser known hungry managers, getting results and encouraging their teams to play both with flair and technical skill. Why doesn't our board have the foresight to find the new Klopp? Yes Klopp! Before you start screaming, put aside the tribalism for a second and think football. He is a dedicated, highly motivated hungry relatively young manager. I for one wish we had someone like him, so that we might once again compete with that shower, from across the park.
Joe McMahon
72 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:46:59
Phil@71 good post. I still hope Carlo has some Carlo left in him for a couple more seasons as he won't want any failure as part of his record. I still feel he will resign in 12 months time at the latest, probably sooner.
Bobby Mallon
73 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:56:22
The whole playing staff need a good cull right through the team. I don't care if someone is on £100 k a week, if he doesn't put his all in and give 100% then put him on gardening leave ( we have to pay him no matter what anyway ). Put some hungry youngster in there place who will give a fuck who will want to fight tooth and nail. What we have now is garbage total garbage and once and for all Tom Davis is not good enough for our ambitions.
Rob Halligan
74 Posted 13/07/2020 at 08:58:01
Joe, no way will Ancelotti resign. Would you walk away from a multi million pound pay off? No, neither would I. Besides, who was the last premier league manager to resign, and walk away from a massive compensation package? There's just too much money involved for them to resign. Ancelotti has a 5.5 year contract and I firmly believe he will see it out.
Gary Willock
75 Posted 13/07/2020 at 09:00:46
Without Carlo, we'd be faced with either a ‘Moyes or an Allardyce' or ‘new Marco'. The first two would cause open revolt, the latter could easily take us to be the next Leeds / Forrest (exactly where we were heading under Silva).

It's ridiculous to think he's past it, or can't manage a team as well as any of the above options. Even in their latter years, Ferguson and Wenger had teams with their identity and winning mentality. Carlo will do the best with whatever he has.

What we need now is stability. I think the plan is for Carlo to stay at least 2 more seasons then it's the big fellas time for real. Let's be patient, and hope that we can replace some of the deadwood that Koeman/Allardyce/Marco have left in the squad.

Bobby Mallon
76 Posted 13/07/2020 at 09:05:16
Christy @70 I agree with Barry. He's said the same words before, maybe he wouldn't have to come out and say those things if he did it on the pitch and had a good the players he means. In fact tell us their names
Barry Rathbone
77 Posted 13/07/2020 at 09:38:24
Bobby @70 Exactly. Unless he calls out players as individuals he's just blustering. Sick and tired of it tbh
Martin Nicholls
78 Posted 13/07/2020 at 09:50:11
Ian Riley#56 - if we do still have a season ticket waiting list it's because those who say things like "I've been supporting this club for xx years but am finished with them" are either not match going fans, or do not mean what they say!

Our team captain has, not for the first time, placed blame solely on the shoulders of the players and more worryingly criticised their commitment/attitude. Why then the debate about the manager? Despite what many say, he cannot simply move those players out and has not yet had the opportunity to bring in players of the calibre (mental and physical) that he needs. Whether of not the parlous position the current bunch of shysters has put us in will fatally hamper his efforts to do so is another matter.

Lynn Maher
79 Posted 13/07/2020 at 10:08:02
I have just watched the after match interview with Carlo.
He said, he does not need to shout, to show the performance was unacceptable.
Well I disagree. There is an air of complacency that surrounds this entire club. By all means try the softly softly approach first, but when that fails time after time,
sometimes you really do need to shout!
Brian Harrison
80 Posted 13/07/2020 at 10:23:35
The embarrassment that this club conspire to inflict on its fans seems to know no bounds. I have watched many Everton sides from the 50s onwards, and some very poor teams in that period with some terrible players. But I can recall a team put in less passion and pride in the shirt than these present
incumbents.

I was delighted when Ancelotti signed and thought at last a world class manager, with a proven track record, and I still believe given the time and the funds he will get it right here. But he is just as culpable with that performance as were the players, and must also take some of the blame. I know he hasnt been able to sign anyone and he has certainly inherited a poor group of players, but with his wealth of experience I think instead of changing formations and personal every game, he might have been better sticking with the 1 formation. I am sure he must look at the money that has been spent on this group, and wonder how any club could spend so much on such dross. When you look at the money spent by Walsh and Brands you wonder if we could sue them under the trade descriptions act, as they are both totally inept at their job description. I think of all the players these clowns have bought only Digne looks like a player, they cant claim any credit for signing Richarlison as his signing was totally down to Silva.

I really don't know where Ancelotti starts to put things right, as there is so much wrong with this group. Pickford is the luckiest guy ever to have won so many England caps, way below international class for me. Mina is never fit for very long and him and Keane are so slow with this pairing its impossible to push our back line to push up as they will leave themselves exposed as Wolves final goal showed.

Everybody knows our midfield 4 whoever they select is just not Premiership class. Sigurdsson hasnt done a tap all season and looks like a man who doesnt want to be at the club, problem is he still has a couple of years of his contract to run so not easy to move on. Gomes wasnt quick before his horrific injury and looks a shadow of the player from last season. Tom Davies would have loved Tom being alocal lad to have made the grade, but after playing 100 games he is going backwards. Our wide players are a joke Bernard,Iwobi, Walcott don't ever look like creating never mind scoring a goal, also lets not forget Bolasie who nobody wants. I have been impressed with Anthony Gordon who could save us some money. Of our strikers only Richarlison is of the right quality, Kean and DCL are still young men and will hopefully improve but neither is at the moment good enough to play for a team wanting to be competing for a top 6 place.

Tony Everan
81 Posted 13/07/2020 at 10:42:36
Make no mistake, the Vultures will be circling above the wounded and limping antelope that is Everton FC.

Nauseating player plus cash deals will be hitting the rumour click bait sites near you soon.

Compatriots and friends will be tapping up Digne and Richarlison to unsettle them with the veiled encouragement of their director of football.

These CL teams will be trying to offload their aging or sub-par deadwood on to us and take our best players for a pitiful fee. They will see us a easy meat to plunder and an opportunity to get unwanted players wage bills off their books.

It is time for the club to take a stand and hold players to their contracts no matter what. Carlo deserves his shot at improving us with his own team without having to sell either of those two.

Brent Stephens
82 Posted 13/07/2020 at 10:43:32
No way Ancelotti should go! He's been here less than half a season!! Not had the chance to sign and mould new players into what's left of the current lot. And this is our last chance of having a manager with such a track record - if he goes, then we'll never attract anybody like him again. I'm amazed we attracted him in the first place.
Michael Lynch
83 Posted 13/07/2020 at 10:52:25
Our players aren't good enough, but they're better than Burnley and Sheff Utd have, so why are they flying higher than us?

We've signed lots of similar players - ones that have some skill but no passion. With the exception of Richarlison, we've signed wage-takers who give zero fucks. Even Digne, our second best player after RIchie, looked like he'd had enough yesterday, standing and watching while Wolves made Pickford look like an arse (not difficult to be fair).

If I was Richarlison (or Digne) I'd be off this summer. Both are class players who should be competing in the European competitions and for trophies. That's not happening here any time soon.

Joe Bibb
84 Posted 13/07/2020 at 12:04:53
Everton will be on BBC 1 soon in their lunchtime show Bargain Hunt, it's where people are given a large sum of money, they then buy things they think are good but find out at auction, no one wants what they have bought and they lose money. Just the right programme for Everton Board Members.
Fran Mitchell
85 Posted 13/07/2020 at 12:17:10
Too many mediocre players with the same, limited skillset.

They play through the middle, none have significant pace, non are ball winners.

The lack of a ball winner I think is the absolute killer in this team, it makes us far too easy to play through. Then the fact that nearly all the players are just woeful at passing, apart from Dignes assist vs Southampton, I can't remember a single through ball that didn't just gift possession.

The players drift, pass sideways, and either give the ball away or send it back to Pickford. It is dreadful.

The players don't really suit any system.

4-3-3, due to the limited midfield, always actually results in a 4-5-1.

4-4-2 leaves us dreadfully exposed in midfield, 2 central midfielders of low quality (whether it be Gomes, Siggy, Davies, Delph) is just too easy to play against. And none of our 'wingers' actually play wide enough, or have the pace to make the system work.

3-4-3 is a terribly difficult formation and requires full backs/wingers of extreme quality and high class midfield ball winner (Kante for Chelsea under Conte).

A complete redo is needed, and clearly the midfield is where it starts. I wouldn't care if not a single of the current set up didn't play again for this club, they'd never be missed nor remembered.

2 central midfielders at a bare minimum. 1 winger, at least, and one attacking/creative midfielder.

I'd be willing to keep the back 4 as it is, and the forwards too, and even Pickford, if it meant a total redesign of the midfield.

Mwila Mwenya
86 Posted 13/07/2020 at 12:40:22
I live in Lusaka, Zambia, and am privileged enough to watch every Everton league game on TV live. Been hoping to catch a game at Goodison and would say Covid-19 has derailed that but, in truth, I have been putting it off for 5 years cause the thought of travelling from Zambia to Liverpool to witness these crazy and inconsistent displays scares me.

I get it Tom Davies deserves to wear the shirt cause he was born there – but Geeez… he should be nowhere near our midfield. The boy can't pass the ball to a blue shirt.... unless we are away and playing a team in blue!! And I won't even start on Sigurdsson.

3 games remaining – would it kill us to give Beni Baningime a go??

Peter Gorman
87 Posted 13/07/2020 at 12:53:14
Welcome to ToffeeWeb, Mwila. We can be a cantankerous lot but I guarantee it won't be as bleak as watching Everton live on TV.
Brent Stephens
88 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:07:21
Welcome to ToffeeWeb Mwila. Perhaps you could get your bank to invest in us?!
Benn Chambers
89 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:14:28
I think this is probably the third or fourth time I've heard Seamus regurgitate this shite. I know he did it after Koeman lost his job and then Silva.

I appreciate his reasons behind wanting to do it but we have eyes, we see what's going on and we can see who it's aimed at. I wish he would name them and properly call them out.

Pickford - has ability as a shit stopper but his attitude is all wrong. He's a chav who happened to be half decent at footy and has somehow found himself the national teams number one. I can't wait for Henderson to replace him and maybe that will be the kick up the arse he needs. Let's see if he finds his numerous mistakes funny then.

Davies - Complete and utter shite. I wanted him to do well so badly. Let's face the facts. He's useless. He's playing centre mid in the premier league and he can't tackle, he doesn't lead, he doesn't score, he never assists, he's slow as fuck, weak in the tackle and in the air. The championship is his level. He needs to be sent there.

Sigurdsson - The fee wasn't his fault but 㿀m would've been too much. The frustration with Gylfi is that he can do all those things I have just stated that Tom Davies cannot. He just chooses not too and is happy to hide and pass sideways or backwards as to not lose possession and get criticised. Have a fucking go. Have some pride. Shithouse.

Gomes - I know his injury was horrific and he's maybe playing sooner than he's really ready to but that doesn't excuse his performances since the restart. Utterly spineless v Southampton and he quit. A complete and utter shithouse. He has the ability to run games for us like he did before his injury. His goal return and assist stats are a shambles for a centre mid but he can make us tick when he can be arsed. I'll reserve judgement until he's no longer surrounded by complete dross but he needs to shape up or fuck off. I hope we get him a proper Gueye replacement and soon.

Iwobi - If he's a footballer, so am I. 㿊m for a crab who runs in to dead ends and then has to go back. Couldn't cross the road never mind a ball and offers fuck all. A total passenger.

Bernard - The premier league is no place for Hobbits. Unless you're Zola, you're goosed and he's like a fish out of water. Flog him back to a wealthy Ukrainian/Russian team. The prem isn't for him. He's weak as piss.

Walcott - A speed boat with no driver. He makes Iwobi look worthy of a shirt. Get shut!

They're the names I wish Coleman would've said. They're the ones with the wrong attitude. Not the only ones, mind. They just happen to be playing. The squad is littered with shite and needs major surgery. Special mentions go to Bolasie, that little useless injury prone blagger, Delph. We're rid of Schneiderlin thank god and now Sandro, Bolasie, Delph, Walcott, Pickford, Iwobi, Sugurdsson and Davies can follow him.

As much as he's been a hero, Seamus is now also part of the problem and needs to be honest with himself. He's finished as a premier league player. This needs to be his last season as does it Baines.

Three games left for, I'd say, 70% of this squad to save their Everton careers but I'm not sure most of them are arsed enough to bother. The spineless, gutless, useless fuckers can do one and don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

We've managed to secure a superb manager and I don't for one minute think that he wasn't promised the owners backing. He wouldn't be here otherwise. Now that City have rendered FFP laughable, let's see how much Moshiri wants his team to be successful. Let's face it, this team needs another 𧶀m spending on it and that's not taking in to account any fee's you may get to reinvest by moving on most of the shite. Let's see if he's up to the job. No point building Bramley Moore for them clowns to play in it. It'll be empty.

If we don't perform major surgery this summer, I don't think Richarlison and Digne will be here for the new seasons kick off. You could just see the despair in their eyes v's Wolves. They know they're sounded by shite and that has to change. The entire recruitment Department needs a stringent looking at because it's been a shambles and has set fire to Over 𧶲m of moshiri's money AFTER Stones, Lukaku and Gueye's fee's Have been taken in to account.

The clubs is a total joke and I'm bored shitless of being buzzed off. Back Ancelotti and let him sort it out.

Robert Tressell
90 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:33:10
All of the players we loathe would be doing just fine at Burnley or Sheff Utd (above us) or Palace (roughly alongside us). These clubs are well managed with players understanding their roles.

Before the break I thought we were on the right track. Since the break its been pretty awful.

The players are capable of much more. The mood in the camp is wrong and has been for a while now. Recruitment will help but Carlo needs to get a grip of a squad with a bad attitude.

Just look at what Dyche keeps achieving at Burnley with a bunch of players who might otherwise be at Sheff Wed, Stoke or Middlesbrough struggling to stand out in the Championship. Dyche has improved them as individual players and made the collective greater than the sum of its parts.

Ps. Welcome also Mwila

Mwila Mwenya
91 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:38:55
Thanks guys. been on ToffeeWeb for years. Just don't post much but that all ends now. I wont be complicit by being silent.

@Brent 88 - best we can hope for is my personal investment via shirt purchases now that we don't have a gambling company on it!

Brent Stephens
92 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:43:04
Mwila, are you at Stanbic Bank? Or is that a different Mwila?
Mwila Mwenya
93 Posted 13/07/2020 at 13:53:10
Hi Brent - Yep that's me. How did you know that though? lol
Steve Shave
94 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:00:00
Benn 89 I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny in your post but you just made me nearly piss myself! Hilarious, terrific rant thank you. I don't disagree with the sentiment, you are clearly experiencing that familiar wave of hopelessness that engulfs most Evertonians from time to time. Chin up at least we have the new stadium to look forward to. oh.
Patrick McFarlane
95 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:07:08
Robert #90
I think you may have inadvertently hit upon a reason why Everton are performing worse than the likes of Burnley, Sheffield United and other similar clubs. The majority of the players at those clubs have yet to hit the jackpot in terms of financial renumeration, therefore their incentive to perform to a high level most weeks of the season is apparent.

Meanwhile at Goodison, very few of our players will improve their financial lot elsewhere, so there is very little need for most of them to bust a gut.

Darren Hind
96 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:19:18
Mwila

I don't know where you got that. Not so Mate. Tom Davies most definitely does not deserve to wear the shirt because he was born here. If that was the case we would have a squad half a million strong.

Another myth you will oft see peddled on here is that he is above criticsm. That myth is generally only peddled by those who havent quite figured out the difference between criticism and abuse.

After just looking at yesterdays live forum - The posts are still up there - I'd like to ask those who took great pleasure in trading criticism for outright abuse (aft'noon Brent ) a question.... When this "serial winner" who we are "lucky to have" was making wholesale changes yesterday. How come he never once looked in Toms direction ? Could it be he saw something you didnt. That the whole team were stinking the place out ?

I'm taking great joy in the fact that many of those who home in on Davies after every Defeat are also often the ones who apologise the loudest for Ancelotti.
How it must wreck their heads to see the greatest manager whoever lived, keep on picking the worst player whoever lived.

What a fucking huge gaping hole the world class, serial winning, wily old fox keeps blowing through their flawed judgement and reasoning.

The only bit of fun on offer at the moment

Sam Hoare
97 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:28:23
Darren @96, I'm not sure the 'Why is Ancelotti picking him then?' argument holds vast quantities of water at the moment as there are no other options! Gomes and Holgate were injured so who else was he going to play in the middle? None of the youngsters have done enough to even make the bench.

We are down to the barest of bones in central midfield currently.

I'm not having a go at Tom, he's certainly been no worse than Gomes or Sigurdsson, but I don't think getting picked in this current midfield is any feather in his cap. If he starts 25+ games for us next season (and presuming we are not ravaged by injury) that will be another matter.

Davies at least is trying. He tries to show for the ball and he tries to pass it forwards more than some of his more senior colleagues. He's one of the youngest players in the team and these disastrous last 3 games do not fall on his head. I still think he may be best benefitted by a season hopefully dominating the championship next year where he can make 30 starts and really hone his game but time will tell.

Tony Everan
98 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:44:24
Ben 89, Epic rant, cheered me up.
Brent Stephens
99 Posted 13/07/2020 at 14:59:16
Mwila - zoominfo.

Eddie Dunn
100 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:08:50
Darren- very good point, and it is also why he continues to pick Sigurdsson. For me, Davies was off colour, sending some simple passes astray, and as for Gylfi, the guy is, like Schneiderlin a good technician. However his role was to sit deep, not go box-to-box. Both he and Tom were shitting themselves at the total shambles which our defence has become without Holgate.
Injuries as well mde the situation even more fraught and as I posted on another thread, the movement from both strikers was poor. When Dom watches Kane, he would note that Kane often comes to the halfway line to pick up possession and to drag defenders out with him making holes for other s to exploit. Richarlison is our star player but is also guilty of going it alone too often.
There was lazy play everywhere and guys playing in unusal positions. We had young Gordon on the right, after two outings on the left, Siggy has always played ten or sometimes on the right for Swansea.
Iwobi is never played in the ten position which may suit him.
Ancelotti has to share the blame, as his gentle approach seems to have lulled these mercenaries into a cozy attitude. The lack of competition for places compounds the complacency. These guys (mostly) recently played very well against Man U, and should have won, and defender stoutly versus Liverpool and could have nicked that one.
They are clearly all on the beach.
Looking at Iwobi, Walcott, Bernard to name but three -would anyone like to be in the trenches with these 3 next to them?
Carlo has got to do a lot of pruning.
Christy Ring
101 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:12:42
We have 4 players across the middle, Iwobi, Sigurdsson and Bernard will not get their boots dirty, shying out of tackles, Tom Davies is only 21,and the only one showing for the ball, and making tackles, and just because he's a local, he's getting the most flak. Can Beni be any worse than Siggy, if Neville and Carragher can single him out for pulling out of tackles, and hiding, in the last two games, what is Carlo watching.
Bill Fairfield
102 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:29:15
Seamus how many times have you had to say this during the last three years. If we had more players with your application and desire we might go places,till then we're going nowhere,this is the worse squad of players in the clubs history,deadbeats.
Derek Taylor
103 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:37:05
Apart from the odd couple of £Million from the place pot, there is precious little riding on the remaining three games. Shall we see a return to normality with the same old faces in their usual roles or will Ancelottie be bold and give outings to more of the kids ? Given the misfortune suffered by young Branthwaite yesterday, (if I've got his name wrong he'll be relieved!), my bet is that we are in for more Siggy and Iwobi.

But whatever and whomsoever, our man presents for our delectation, it matters not. If the Italian family enterprise stays around for next season their focus will be on the activities--both ins and outs- of their colleague, Mr Brands, who surely won't repeat the horrors of the last few windows. Should he do so, defenistration may well be on our agenda !

John Pierce
104 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:38:09
Christy. I largely agree with what you say on Davies. I'm not a fan of his and during this miserable run of performances I can honestly say he deserves to get picked above the rest. He never stops, his running stats will show, never hides and always tries to find a way forward, despite the obvious lack of execution.
He may be the best of a very poor bunch and I think Carlo can see that, hence he gets picked. It's moot point really because it's very likely given the choice not one of the current central midfield options will be first choice next season.
Onto Carlo, having us sat deep and maintaining shape is one thing but he's got us doing that at the expense of even trying to win the ball back. I can barely remember a tackle yesterday apart from Sigurdsson and that was only through utter shock he won a duel! That has to change, you cannot be that passive, if you go one nil down it's over with that mindset.
With the pressure completely off watch this collection of misfits reel three off the bounce. That's totally their style.
Trevor Peers
105 Posted 13/07/2020 at 15:50:44
I don't understand why Anceolliti changed the team at half time, we were doing alright containing Wolves by swamping the midfield and trying to hit them on the break. The middle three of Davies, Gilfy and Gordon looked comfortable enough.
But because we conceeded a goal at the end of the half, the manager hit the panic button and changed personnel at half time, chaos ensued and we lost control completely.
It was a bad call by the manager and a surprise that he lost his cool so easily, given his experience.

On the subject of Davies I think he will be a good squad player, but his big test will come when we get everyone fit and who we buy in the next widow. Then he'll have to really fight for his place, he and DCL should not be automatic choices yet, they haven't done enough.

Darren Hind
106 Posted 13/07/2020 at 16:03:23
Sam

My argument holds more water than the arl Wessie road swimming pool and here's why

Rhino recently spoke about Beni. He told us that after all his injuries and difficulties he was getting back to his best. If he told us, you can bet your house that he has told Ancelotti. Right there is an option.

On the bench. Ancelotti had, The club captain. Two thirty million pound signings (one of whom we are told is better playing central) a Brazilian international and a world cup winner. Are you honestly trying to tell me that this master tactician didnt have any choice but to play the worst player in the league ? You or I could come up with several alternative systems which didnt involve Davies...You are surely not suggesting Carlo had no choice ?

He could easily have played Big Yerry at CH and moved Holgate into midfield the other night. That would have ousted young Tom..but he chose to bench big Yerry instead. He could have played the 40m Icelandic international too, but he left him on the bench as well.

I know it doesnt square with your argument Sam, but Ancelotti has options. He has ALWAYS had several options.
Like every other manager he elects to go for what he believes is his best one.

Sam Hoare
107 Posted 13/07/2020 at 16:19:47
Darren, I've not had the pleasure of the Wessie pool. Maybe one day.

Yes, I suppose Carlo could have put himself in the middle as one option (might have done alright) but i'm not sure it was a palatable one. Similar to Banigime who, whatever Rhino has said, has failed to get a game in the last 3 years bar the solitary appearance for lowly Wigan.

Holgate has been needed at the back and if the clearly unfancied Banigime is not included then Carlo's only had 3 central midfielders to choose from with 5 games in the space of 2 weeks. Clearly Davies with 100 or so appearances for Everton was going to get alot of game time.

You may well be right. Perhaps Carlo rates Davies highly. He certainly spoke well of him recently. But I think we'll have a much clearer idea of that next season when he has (hopefully!) some more palatable midfield options to choose between.

Kieran Kinsella
108 Posted 13/07/2020 at 16:34:32
Rhino's opinion of Beningame means nothing because he simply compared Beningame with Beningame. He never said “he is good” or he “is better than so and so.” He said he is “nearly back to HIS best” which is no different than saying Brett Angel was near to his best at Everton. Great but HIS best is not good enough.
Darren Hind
109 Posted 13/07/2020 at 16:49:55
Sam

I don't understand how you can say Holgate was essential at the back. not with a 27m center half sitting on the bench.

Given the quality of midfield players Carlo has had at his disposal I would be staggered if he rated Davies highly, but he clearly appreciates the job he does and continues to ignore other far more expensive options. Thats what amuses me.

BTW. You never went to Wessie baths ?

Unless you have been persuaded to leave the pool by two really pissed off "life guards" welding big fuck off bamboo sticks from either side with total disregard for where they smashed them down. I can only assume you were posh and went swimming in the same place as people like Ferry and Tran

David Midgley
110 Posted 13/07/2020 at 17:22:41
Darren #109.

Corwally.

Brian Wilkinson
111 Posted 13/07/2020 at 18:12:31
A lot are rightly saying our d.o.f has got off lightly.

Since we brought one in, how many players can you name that have improved this squad.

You could say Richarlison, but I would say that was more down to Silvas knowledge on the player and would have brought the player in anyway.

The only other player would be Digne and possibly Gomes.

The rest of our big signings have been sub standard.

I was against a d.o.f when we first appointed one and still am now.

It is obvious Moshi knows nothing at the moment and is being badly advised and taken for a ride, but he did not make his fortune through knowing nothing, in time he will and hopefully be more ruthless.

For now though we have to strip that midfield above all other areas, and bring in a couple of top class midfielders in, we cannot afford to gamble in the market this Summer on prospects, we have to bring in players at the top of their game.

Tony Everan
112 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:00:19
Time for 4-3-3 experiment on a Thursday.

I want to see some attacking football for a change. Imagine us taking the game to the opposition! and us having them on the back foot. I know, lalalala land.

Mina and Holgate are rumoured to be back in the frame so how about

Pickford
Coleman Keane Miami Digne
Davies Holgate Gordon
Richie Kean DCL

Forget our travails and attack, let them worry about us.

Brent Stephens
113 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:03:23
Tony ur not alone. Would love to see that as well. Except for your Miami at the back!
Sean McCarthy
114 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:10:11
A bit late to the debate here but here goes

David (#4) do you really Richarlison would get a start for Top 4 side? I'm not so sure about that. He may be the best we've got but that doesn't say a lot to be fair. I agree he's one of the few I wouldn't be looking to sell. I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if any or all of the following left this summer:
Pickford
Keane
Mina
Davies
Sigurdson
Iwobi
Walcott
Sidibe
Bernard
Kean
Sandro

A new goalkeeper, right back, 2 centre halves, a midfield on top of that goal scorer we've been crying out for since Lukaku left us are all needed. It's just a question of which position(s) we need most
urgently. It's not going to be easy

Brent Stephens
115 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:15:12
And as we speak, Southampton go forest in numbers and go ahead.
Brent Stephens
116 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:16:07
* go forward!
Duncan McDine
117 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:22:06
Don't know if there's been much debate on here about Man City definitely not bribing anyone to have their European ban lifted, but it certainly raised an eyebrow - so much so that I was mistaken for Carlo Ancelotti.
It's a wonderful world that we live in where spending lots of money can overturn penalties that were a result of spending lots of money.
Paul Birmingham
118 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:31:32
Welcome Mwila, to the global Everton Family.

Hopefully, very hopefully and in preseason the club will get at least a couple of players, whom will fight, have care, flair and passion and belief.

The last x3 games, have been the worst I've watched on the box or listened to, for decades.

The lack of effort and chemistry tells its own storey. The easiest team to play against and no team has to barely break sweat, as a walking press, contains this team.

The rhetoric post match from Seamus, is what we've heard for donkies years.

Until the club gets a minimum level of professionalism, then we won't win anything soon. What the hell goes on at FF.

Ironic as almost 12 months since the garbage away friendly at Wigan. That set the stage for another wretched crap season, to back up so many before.

If the club doesn't get serious soon, then, the worse this chronic demise will become, and no team is too good to stay in this league. You earn the right by hard work and endeavour. The bulk of this squad wouldn't know the meaning of these attributes for any football team.

Let's hope there's some new players whom want to play for Everton and Carlo Ancellotti. This transfer window will be very tough, may be we can trade some of our deadwood too.

Hopefully they will devise a moral fibre test for any new signings, I'd fine most of the team for yesterday's extra bad stink show.

Seamus cares, but on the pitch we need a nark, who fights and holds the team together. The worst bunch of cowardly players since the EPL, was set up.

The Everton supporters deserve better. Let's hope it happens soon.

Villa will steam this team if they don't change their mindset.

Let's hope Everton turn up.

Christy Ring
119 Posted 13/07/2020 at 20:33:04
Kieran@108 Was it Big Nev who said about Brett Angel's skill " his second touch was a tackle"
Ray Said
120 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:08:07
A significant number of players come into the club and go backwards in terms of fitness, skills with and without the ball and in terms of application. This has occurred under at least the last four managers. There have been a few notable exceptions like Richarlison, Holgate, DCL and Gordon and we cant ignore the possibility that they would have shown the same level or an increased level of improvement at another club. This indicates strongly to me that the problem is with the coaching and the coaches. Players like Sigurdsson, Gomes, Bernard, have gone backwards. Yes I want to see new, better players come in but the place I want to see a massive turnover is in the coaching staff. Its cheaper, it will have a longer tern effect and it will benefit both existing players, new transfers in and the young players coming through. Let CA recruit a whole new team of coaches and fitness staff and reap the rewards.
Mike Doyle
121 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:19:56
Paul 118] a good example of what we need is shown by Peter Reid's retaliation tackle on Brian Marwood in the 1984 game v Sheffield Wed (it's on YouTube) Then when the ref books Reidy Andy Gray steps in to give the ref his “perspective”.
How Richarlison would appreciate a couple of team mates like those 2, rather than the current crop who quietly watch him being kicked to pieces every game.
Nick Page
122 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:29:54
Ray, good luck getting rid of Ferguson! What has he got on Kenwright?
Patrick McFarlane
123 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:31:57
Ray #120

I was under the impression that with each managerial change the new guy brings in his own coaching team, save for Duncan who has been a mainstay throughout these turbulent years.

Joe McMahon
124 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:37:48
Mike @121. There are many players we would have wanted and they fought for everything, Patrick Viera, Roy Keane, Tony Adam's and hate to say it Steven Gerrard. With any of that lot we would have won silverware in more recent times. Just shows the shocking demise when we still have to talk about Peter Reid. Mostly weak but nice players ar Everton for years.
Dave Williams
125 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:41:25
Tony #112 great choice- I'd look forward to watching that team
Benn Chambers
126 Posted 13/07/2020 at 21:54:06
Steve Shave #94

I wasn't trying to be funny. I was raging. I've calmed down a little now and read it back and I've had a chuckle at myself. If we didn't laugh we'd cry eh, mate.

Who'd be a blue eh? Fuck sake. 😂

Clive Rogers
127 Posted 13/07/2020 at 22:01:20
When a team plays badly, it's easy to say they weren't giving 100%. This is not really what's wrong with Everton. The problem is that the players are just not good enough. The club has signed sub standard and sicknote players. On Sunday, the vast majority of Brands' signings occupied either the subs bench or the injury list. It was entirely predictable that Delph would have injury problems and hardly play. This could apply to one or two others. The truth is there were only two of Sunday's team that are worth keeping and we need 8 good signings to become a decent team. The club is an utter shambles and has been ever since Kenwright took over and will remain so until he has gone.
Tony Everan
128 Posted 13/07/2020 at 22:09:49
Yes me too Dave. If those 6 midfield and front men, all 23 or under, got some confidence under their belt it would do wonders for them and the whole club. They could get some young guns camaraderie going, and get some feel good factor back for us lot. Boy do we need it.

As you say it would give us some anticipation and something to look forward to at the very least. I can't see what's to lose at this stage in the season in not trying it.

Don Alexander
129 Posted 13/07/2020 at 22:12:32
Anyone patient enough to read my posts will know I place a huge amount of blame on Kenwright for the jobs-for-yes-men-boys pervading USMFF for well over a decade before it even took that sponsorship.

My view on the sleazy Kenwright is unabated but it now worries me that the same culture of total subservience to the owner's ego is what's engulfing Moshiri, and massively stimying our way to basic professionalism as a football club.

No, I don't have statements to corroborate my opinion but a number of city-based TW correspondents have for quite a while posted their similar observations.

So, if Kenwright's grip as chairman is not as strong as it used to be, given Moshiri most recently decided to "enhance his role as chairman" by the way, have we now to endure the ineptitude of the man Kenwright programmed to run our club for as long he wants, regardless of performance, results or lack of trophies?

Which other founder member of the EPL would tolerate our situation for two years, never mind two decades and more?

Paul Birmingham
130 Posted 13/07/2020 at 22:18:26
Mike @121, agreed, it's as if the players are taught to take it and not give it out, under any circumstances.

But this team has brought their own social distancing limits into play, and in cases stay 5-10 m away from the opposition players.

We live in hope.

Ray Said
131 Posted 13/07/2020 at 23:26:25
Patrick (123)
I think most of the coaching staff have been in place for a while. I think CA brought in his son but kept most of the coaches. That needs to change
Ray Said
132 Posted 13/07/2020 at 23:31:37
Patrick (123) just to confirm that CA brought in six staff but only three are coaches. He also brought his son to assist him, a video analyst and a guy to help with player recovery.
Andy Crooks
133 Posted 13/07/2020 at 23:37:19
We can ask no more from our players than they walk off thinking that was my best, I could do no more. Who among them can say say that? We can only hope that most of them can't, but might, at least now and again.
Steve Ferns
134 Posted 13/07/2020 at 23:42:29
In addition to Davide Ancelotti, Carlo has also appointed his son in law (Mino Fulco) to the position of Sports Performance manager. He was nutritionist at Bayern. Ancelotti has appointed the son of his long term fitness coach to the position of fitness coach, Francesco Mauri the son of Giovanni Mauri. There's a lot of nepotism here.
Minik Hansen
135 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:04:59
It's a miracle that after this round, we're still 11th. If I see the same, spineless display, I'll go nuts. That said. Even if they do, ah well. COYB.
Patrick McFarlane
136 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:25:25
Thanks for the information, I honestly thought that each manager brought in his own coaches and they left when he did. Have the current coaches all been at Finch Farm for years, who brings them to the club, if not the manager? Apart from Duncan who are they?

https://trainingground.guru/staff-profiles/everton-staff-profiles

I've just found the information thanks.

Andy Crooks
137 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:32:49
Disappointing, but typical, Steve, that this is allowed to happen. We have gone "all in" with this coach and his entourage. Looking at Paul's article, which I haven't read thoroughly yet, I fear our future depends entirely on Mr Moshiri digging deeper.

We are, due to the most inept transfer dealings that I have ever witnessed, in a very precarious position. A second rate, demotivated, disengaged squad, coached by a man whose admirable skills have never, ever, encountered the like of the fundamental utter ineptitude that he faces in training every day.

This sorry bunch need supporters in the ground. They need reminding that they are not entitled to look pleased with themselves (every fucking one of them, without exception, has that look).

I have a bad feeling about our club. This will end badly.

Steve Ferns
138 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:41:41
Patrick, the manager brings them in with him. Silva had a small team and when he was sacked, they all left, except for Duncan Ferguson.

Carlo came in and has brought in even less than Silva. The current setup seems to be:

Head Coach - Carlo Ancelotti
Assistant Coach - Davide Ancelotti
Assistant Coach - Duncan Ferguson
Head Fitness Coach - Francesco Mauri
Fitness coach - Manuel Morbito
Head of Performance - Mino Fulco
Goalkeeping coach - Alan Kelly

Alan Kelly is an interesting one. He came in on a temporary basis to be goalkeeping coach under Unsworth's extended caretaker spell. Then after that ended he dropped down with Unsworth to the u23s as allardyce brought in Martyn Margetson. Then he left as Silva brought in Hugo Oliveira. When silva left and Hugo went with him, Ferguson promoted Kelly to the first team with John Ebrell and franny Jeffers. After Carlo came in, Ebbrell and Jeffers rejoined Unsworth in the u23s but Kelly has remained with the first team. Will Carlo bring in a new man in the summer? I doubt it.

The biggest surprise for me is the main coach. Carlo has always been one to use what he has inherited, but he always took his best mate Gio Mauri (father of Francesco) wherever he went. It should be noted that he usually manages massive clubs with high turnovers of managers who have an extensive playing squad and so extensive coaching teams that remain in place when the main man is sacked. That is a new man brings in a few coaches but inherits another 5-10. So Carlo is used to working this way.

After Gio took a lot of stick when Carlo was accused of not having Bayern fit enough, Gio retired. Francesco was already on the coaching staff at Bayern as his dad's assistant and Carlo made him the head fitness coach ever since.

Carlo usually has a guy like Paul Clement alongside him. Someone who is a renowned coach and knows him well and can get his ideas across. It's very interesting that Everton haven't appointed Clement (who appears to be available after being sacked by Swansea) or someone like that. I can only think he believes his son is ready for a bigger role this time and that he himself should take on a bigger role. Indeed Carlo is right in the middle of things on all the training videos when in the past he's been more like Koeman was. Ronald used to stand on the side watching as his brother Erwin did all the coaching. So now we see the two fitness coaches warming the players up and doing fitness work, but Carlo, Davide and Duncan doing the technical drills.

Patrick McFarlane
139 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:48:21
Steve #138
Cheers for that background stuff.
Steve Ferns
140 Posted 14/07/2020 at 01:03:23
No problem Patrick. There is this video on the official site introducing them all: Link

It's a very nepotistic setup. I'm not implying there is no merits to Davide as a coach, as he has some impressive credentials rather than just being Carlo's son (such as graduating top of his class). But when you throw in Mino Fulco being married to his daughter Katia, and then Francesco Mauri being the son of his close friend, you have to raise an eyebrow.

One for Robert Tressell: you might want to get Katia Ancelotti on Cheshire Footballer's Wives as she's not a bad looker!

Ed Prytherch
141 Posted 14/07/2020 at 01:38:27
Patrick # 95 - spot on. Most people are motivated by the prospect of greater reward for more work and therefore we see younger players and players from lower leagues and from countries with lower levels working hard. How can we honestly expect Delph and Walcott who know that they are highly unlikely to gain the recognition at Everton that they got at City and the Arse to bust their guts for us. I hope that we never sign another player who has won medals with another club as they will never be hungry here. Add the ones who are already very wealthy, live in a mansion, have a beautiful wife. They have already made it so why get out of their comfort zones.
Kieran Kinsella
142 Posted 14/07/2020 at 01:45:31
Gerry Ring that's hilarious

Don Alexander,

Sadly there are founding Premier Leagueteams that have tolerated worse. Coventry, QPR, Wimbledon to name a few.

Kieran Kinsella
143 Posted 14/07/2020 at 01:58:22
Steve Ferns

Regarding Clement, I seem to recall the club saying that, with Marcel on board, he'd oversee staff and they wouldn't continue to have wholesale turnover after the expensive payoffs with Sam's crew. That's how Dunc was foisted on Silva and presumably Carlo.

When Silva lost his number two, who was able to go bargain basement shopping for Boa Morte. Maybe Carlo's family come on the cheap versus an established name like Clement.

Jack Convery
144 Posted 14/07/2020 at 04:00:40
If EFC were a type of food, I'd stop buying it because it keeps making me sick and feeling shit. It's stale and mouldy well past its sell-by date.

If Carlo can't sort EFC out then, no-one can. Kenwright will no doubt bring Moyes back if this fails. I fear relegation because this terminal decline can only result in it happening sometime soon.

I keep thinking about what Schneiderlin said when he joined Nice. He was glad to join a club with structure and organisation – hmmm.

Laurie Hartley
145 Posted 14/07/2020 at 09:01:09
I would introduce “special training” for any player that goes missing during games or chickens out of a 50/50.

Down to the Sandhills.

Jeff Spiers
146 Posted 14/07/2020 at 10:53:25
Laurie, and take them away from their comfort zone? Perish the thought!!
Nick Page
147 Posted 14/07/2020 at 11:17:33
Steve Ferns – there's a lot nepotism? Haha!! This football club is the absolute heartland of nepotism. Look at the board. Look at Ferguson (and all the other ex-EFC “coaches”). It's Kenwrights cronyism that has held the club back for years. No structure, no ambition, no clue –just lots of jobs for the boys.

We debate endlessly on these boards but, honest to God, until that lot are swept away and a proper football/sports management team is brought in, it won't change. Until then, we're just fiddling about around the edges. It's absolutely and utterly rotten to the core. Rotten!

Allan Board
148 Posted 14/07/2020 at 11:47:08
Don @129, I completely agree with your assessment and the bearing it still has today.

Not one person from within the club has dared to be outspoken against this cronyism culture and hence it will never change. I still think Kenwright sticks his oar in, and it is absolutely defining Moshiri's decisions. Sub-standard, soft players, and not one outspoken. Nice little cliques, on huge wages, who do just enough and no more. I have no respect for men who hide and meekly accept under-achievement. The squad is full of them.

The problem is, it seems this culture has passed over to Moshiri and his team through persuasion and it is deemed acceptable.

Mal van Schaick
149 Posted 14/07/2020 at 12:16:13
Ancelotti should tell the owner and the board that he cannot make a top four team out of this squad. Once that is said, the owner and the manager should address the players individually and tell them that they are surplus to requirements and that they should showcase whatever ability that they think that they have on the pitch for prospective new clubs to bid for them. (May be Sigi all ready knows, hence his performances).

Then and only then, will Ancelotti have free reign to forge his own team and bring success and hopefully attractive football with quality players who want to play for Everton.

It cannot continue into next season with this sour, sorry collection of players, or else forget any progress.

Brian Murray
150 Posted 14/07/2020 at 12:36:46
You all see the common theme here!

Moyes ran the ship how he wanted with Kenwright's hearty blessing. Koeman got his brother to help with coaching. Martinez needed no coaches because he doesn't grasp the game.

Then add Jeffers and big Dunc to the mix and it's just a continuous perfect storm of inept under-qualified well-paid staff. That's before we get into our totally out-of-her-depth CEO.

Let the good times roll, Carlo, and good luck, mate!

Franny Porter
151 Posted 14/07/2020 at 12:48:38
The only solace I can take from this season, is by looking at Man United and Southampton. United were absolutely crap until they signed Fernandes and its all clicked for them. It shows how much difference one influential signing can make. Likewise, look at Southampton, they got beat nine nil earlier this season. Fast forward to this past week and they battered us and got a great point last night. I'm hoping there is a change of mindset over the Summer either brought on by Carlo's influence, new signings or just getting rid of the likes of Sigurdson. Keep the faith,
Brian Murray
152 Posted 14/07/2020 at 13:12:31
I very rarely want us to get beat. Only exception when city where going for the title. However it would be ironic if Moyes was relying on Everton to beat Bournemouth and Villa ! I don't believe in holding a grudge or karma otherwise the season would of been quite rightly null and voided.
Laurie Hartley
153 Posted 14/07/2020 at 13:14:41
Jeff # 146 - that's the idea - earn your dough one way or the other - on the pitch or on the Sandhills.

Training to Win

Could result in a few transfer requests.

Mary Coleman
154 Posted 14/07/2020 at 13:41:05
#147 Nick

Look at Ferguson Are you mad, we are looking at the guy saved our season and gave us our belief back!!

Nick, you call yourself an Evertonian, how can you not support him for what he did back in December, where you present at those games he took charge for, how on earth can you criticise him, for what, he showed Silva how it should be done. He proved he could coach, he proved he could motivate, he proved he had tactical knowledge and he got results....

I was at those games with family and friends who have been travelling home and away with Everton for 20 years, the passion at Goodison and on the terraces we had not experienced that for years...

We should be applauding Ferguson for what he has done for us as a coach, walks on water. He saved our club this year and continues to stand by his manager..

Nick your an embarrassment, you call yourself an Evertonian!! Tut tut

Andrew McLawrence
155 Posted 14/07/2020 at 15:17:40
I have this terrible feeling that if we were to play Norwich next week in a loser goes down scenario we would probably still have the same uninterested attitude. Been writing the same stuff on here for what seems like the last 4 years. Painful now that the players couldn't be arsed attitude has now infected me too. How would this season be marked and commented on in a school report style? Answers on a postcard
Brian Murray
156 Posted 14/07/2020 at 15:41:55
Kenwright's arrogance far outweighs any affection he has for the club. He surely must know defo down we can't possibly move forward on and especially off the pitch while he is even remotely involved.

As for the owner being fooled by him, well, they say a fool and his money are easily parted.

Where's the Blue Union when you need them??

Mick Conalty
157 Posted 14/07/2020 at 15:56:05
Our players, man for man are
Better than Southampton's
Players.
So why can't Ancelotti get them
to play with the same style and
intensity as Southampton did
Last night.

It just does not add up.

At this moment in time nothing
has changed under Ancelotti.?????

Hugh Jenkins
158 Posted 14/07/2020 at 16:11:32
Mick (157). I have to say that, to me, that statement is debatable, to say the least. I don't believe our players are better - or at least their attitude to their work isn't.

For the manager to come out publicly and say that the level of effort and motivation of the players is unacceptable, is, to my mind, a terrible thing for him to have to do.

In other words, he has said that the players, in the main, don't give a jot about their performance and are just going through the motions.

Clearly, time to ring the changes.

Kim Vivian
159 Posted 14/07/2020 at 17:08:44
Never mind sand dunes. These should be taken oout of their cotton wool lifestyle and onto a week or 10 day training, survival, fitness and team building exercise in the Lakes or mid Wales with Bear Grhylls or one of who dares wins blokes off the telly. Those that drop out - just fuck them off to the reserves until their contracts run down or until we can get shut of them, or they actually buck up.
Will Mabon
160 Posted 14/07/2020 at 17:16:33
Mick, 157 - it's that same old imponderable; something dark and negative has pervaded the club/squad/team for some years now. Nothing in the last five years will seem to break the spell. I mean this. Something doesn't add up.
Andrew McLawrence
161 Posted 14/07/2020 at 17:27:01
I don't think we are as good as Southampton man for man either. One of the man reasons is fitness levels. The modern game depends on high work rates and mobility and athleticism. We have precious little of that anywhere in the team. Look at Henderson at the shite. Bang average but fit and mobile and knows his role in the team. We have slow players like Gomez, Davies, in midfield, lightweights like Bernard, injury prone has beens like Walcott and Delph. Southampton will kick on next season just like Wolves did this one. Where will we be?
Antony Kelly
162 Posted 14/07/2020 at 18:33:32
Ref 154 : Mary spot on, some people just don't accept Ferguson can coach and he turned our season around we were 18th, third from bottom.

Ferguson was incredible in those games he dragged our club out of a relegation fight.

I sit in the family enclosure and believe me he was inspiring. He made Siva look like a little boy.
And the game against Man U I was in the away end when he stood there in the pouring rain, leading our team. The real fans stood right along side him and sang their hearts out for him and the club.

That certainly is not rotten!!

Nick Page
163 Posted 14/07/2020 at 19:34:39
Haha lol, Mary. I like Duncan but that's not my point. Why is he still at Everton? Who made that decision? And if he's that good a coach then why isn't he manager? How has he survived seven (more?) mangers? I know he had financial troubles so did that come into it? Anyway he's not the issue, his continued presence is and why...and who is really running the club and why his meddling ways are still being supported. It's a crime, Mary and we're all suffering. If he just walked away, and took his cronies with him we'd be far better off and could start afresh. A new chapter but still he lingers on, trying to convince all and sundry how nice we are and how great we were. He's a fraud, a charlatan, a liar and he's in it for the personal gain and because he loves the limelight. After all, he's an actor don't you know and Everton is his stage.
Mary Coleman
164 Posted 14/07/2020 at 20:41:41
This

#163 - I don't think slandering the man is fair, those words you use are harsh..

He's still at Everton because he's proved himself as a caretaker manager and a coach. He secured us 5 points when we were facing a relegation battle, we were all terrified of those games in December that he took charge of, it was a miracle, we would never have secured those points under Silva that's for sure.

I am sure Ancelotti, Moshiri and the Everton board see him as an asset to the club and that's why he's still here. He's not the Everton manager because the club brought in a three times champion league winner, we couldn't ask for anything more but for sure one day he will be.

Just a couple of hours ago he features on BBC1 with a blind fan, that kind of fan engagement cannot be faked, it's fantastic. I've met Duncan a couple of times, he's wonderful person and is so very supportive to all our fans and our great city. Sorry you see it differently

Andy Crooks
165 Posted 14/07/2020 at 20:49:36
I have bowed to no one in my constant disdain for Duncan Ferguson. In fact, I doubt that there are many on this site who have been more scathing of him and every aspect of his career as a player and coach.

Times change and people change and, as I have been happy to admit, I called that one badly wrong. In my view, without Duncan Ferguson we would have been relegated this season. There is much more to the man than ever met my jaundiced eye.
I am, without any right whatsoever, quick to judge but often wrong. I am happy that he is at our club. Not as a charity case but as a man with something to offer. I am glad we have Ancelotti as coach and I hope he has a cunning plan for next season. I am am happy we have Duncan Ferguson ready and able to step in if all goes badly wrong.

Colin Glassar
166 Posted 14/07/2020 at 20:55:07
Watching the Norwich - Chelsea game I'd happily take most of these Norwich players over our shower of losers. At least they play with speed and commitment.
Mike Hayes
167 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:00:51
Nick Page #163 According to a steward Big Dunc was offered the role by Kenshite as he was apparently bankrupt - given that he had, up until he took charge of the first team, been quiet in my opinion may have been a condition of his employment - be a figure head but stay quite?
Neil Copeland
168 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:04:13
Andy #165, well said sir!
Nick Page
169 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:06:39
I'm not NOT glad he's at the club I just don't understand why he is foist upon every new manager - how does that conversation go? And why can't the club tell us? Ah but that's Bill's Everton you see...all smoke and mirrors, cloak and dagger. Turn this way, look over there. We're lovely here, a family club you see.

If you can't ask these questions, or aren't prepared to, I'm not quite sure who or what you are supporting. It's certainly not the Everton I watched win the league in 1985. And therefore I doubt you are really Evertonians at all given that you accept this despicable, wretched and cancerous malaise. NOBODY is bigger than the club and nobody is beyond reproach.

Neil Copeland
170 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:09:35
Nick #169, it sounds like your gripe is aimed more at Boys Pen Billy than Duncan.
Alan McGuffog
171 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:13:15
It is the sinner who offers up a reason for the wrongdoing. It is the prerogative of the sinned against to excuse, or not.

In this case, I cannot excuse my club for offering up such disgraceful fare.

Brian Murray
172 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:20:14
Definitely nothing personal against Kenwright. However, I'm convinced if he was forced to step down or he himself resigned (fat chance!), this club would roar back into life under a different mentality and start acting like a premier club.
Nick Page
173 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:22:10
Neil #170 I have no gripe with DF at all. I wish him nothing but the best. I'm just curious as to why he is there, still and as like Mike #167 days, that was the rumour WHICH adds fuel to the Kenwright fire - that he still has far FAR too much say at EFC. It's all hidden in plain sight
Joe McMahon
174 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:23:24
Nick@169, you probably know my feelings about Kenwright overseeing our decline over the last 2 decades (plus). I think what you are referring to is the lack of transparency through the club, rather than being spoon fed reset media soundbites, EITC, Finch Farm jolly japes etc.
Neil Copeland
175 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:33:11
Nick, Similar to Andy Crooks, I struggled to see what value DF offered until he took charge when Silva left.

Kenwright is a different matter, I thought he was supposed to be stepping down due to health problems? Whilst I would never wish him ill health, I do wish he was completely out of the picture and would agree that he still seems to have far too much influence. It's about time Mr Moshiri flexed some muscle and appointed a new chairman, I think until that happens we will continue to stutter and stumble.

Nick Page
176 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:40:53
Maybe I'm not making myself clear (obviously, lol) but DF is symptomatic of Everton...not the issue or an issue. Like giving ex-players jobs especially ones far less deserving than DF. It's who decides this AND why. This is not how you develop a winning mentality, a successful business. I doubt Farhad Moshiri knows the first thing about Duncan but I'm sure he's been “told”.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
177 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:45:48
Joe. I don't mind you disliking Kenwright, but you seem to find it frustrating that the facts get in the way.

From 1992 until he became chairman in 2004, we had escaped relegation twice on the last day of the season and, apart from a year of Joe Royle as manager, had finished an average 15th in the Premier League with a highest of 13th.

I think we had pretty well declined before he oversaw anything.

That we have not risen to the dizzy heights we would all like is a different criticism.

Neil Copeland
178 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:47:24
Yes, agreed but perhaps I got caught up in the Duncan Ferguson bit rather than the actual subject. I think until a change is made regarding Kenwright, the mismanagement will continue because he obviously still has too much influence.

It may run deeper than that but it would, in my opinion, go a long way to sorting through actual running of the club out and help us adopt a healthier and more business-like approach.

Nick Page
179 Posted 14/07/2020 at 21:47:29
I'll keep posting this until I'm blue (lol) in the face too BUT every one of you that hasn't needs to read Colin Fitzpatrick's post from 10 years ago. Tonight. Go.

I'm more concerned about Everton...

Joe McMahon
180 Posted 14/07/2020 at 22:02:44
Phil @177, actual points taken. But Bill has been on the board since the late 80s and he became a major shareholder (I think) late 90s or 2000. Yes, the big decline started probably early 90s (95-96 the only high point).

You know what – it's been so long, you forget what it's like to support an achieving and winning team.

Harry Williams
181 Posted 14/07/2020 at 22:15:09
Ref 176 - Nick you doubt Farhad Moshiri knows nothing about Ferguson? Are you for real?

Moshiri said Ferguson gave him his best Everton experience to date, plus he spoke with Ferguson regarding the caretaker role, when Ferguson spelled out how he would organise the team 4-4-2 etc – it was all over the news, didn't you see that!!

Wake up son!!

Nick Page
182 Posted 14/07/2020 at 00:07:39
Thanks, Harry. I'm sure Farhad has been through all the old Everton DVDs of Ferguson getting sent off etc, but the poor old fool has been well and truly had off by Blue Bill if his best experience of Everton was Ferguson winning a match as caretaker manager. How sad is that?

This is Everton Football Club. He's pumped hundreds of millions of his own money in apparently for that! Hahaha... wake up, “son”.

Paul Burns
183 Posted 15/07/2020 at 11:18:40
No comment. What a surprise.

No wonder performances like this are the norm, they've become accepted without even comment from the club.

If they don't care, why should we? And more and more people don't care anymore.

The club is in a coma, closer to death than it realises, and it needs to act big now, while the odd person still gives a damn.

Billy Roberts
184 Posted 15/07/2020 at 22:48:20
Nick @179,

I have to disagree with your low opinion of Duncan Ferguson, his effect on the team and the Goodison crowd wasn't an illusion. His influence was real and tangible and seriously needed at the time; for this you are very disparaging.

On his playing career I would have to agree with you about the "legendary" career Duncan achieved, yet just imagine having 2 or 3 such players in our team now? I amongst many more will love him for that; he was momentarily a hero in a swamp of fuckin mediocrity.

Thank you, Nick, for that link to that damning article on the King of mediocrity – Kenwright. It is a superb post, one of the best and I applaud you for promoting it, don't stop. The article is so powerful and sadly accurate about Everton's intransigence and Liverpool's ability to rise again... like fuckin' Michael Myers.

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