Updated Carlo Ancelotti's Crosby home was burgled this evening by masked thieves who were disturbed by his daughter but not before they took off with a safe.
A report in the Liverpool Echo partially substantiates a rumour that began on WhatsApp and quickly spread to social media that the Everton manager had been held up at knife-point.
However, Ancelotti, who has regularly expressed how much he enjoys living in the area he chose to settle after agreeing to become Everton manager in December 2019, was not at home at the time.
Police say that the crime was perpetrated by two men wearing balaclavas and black "waterproof" clothing who gained entry to the property and removed the safe when they became aware of the presence of Ancelotti's daughter and fled the scene.
Police were subsequently called to the residence in Blundellsands but no-one has yet been apprehended.
Reader Comments (205)
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1 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:06:50
Every time this city takes a few strides forward in the eyes of the rest of the UK, Some gobshite/s will drag it back again.
Really sickening that such a high profile celebrity who has done nothing but praise the place should be treated like this.
Pity his daughter wasnt arriving after getting a lift home from Big Dunc.
I feel I need to shower
My thoughts are with his daughter. it must have been a terrifying experience for her.
2 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:32:36
3 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:46:04
4 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:50:16
Hope these lowlifes are caught.
5 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:53:31
6 Posted 13/02/2021 at 01:55:53
7 Posted 13/02/2021 at 02:41:02
I hope they are named and shamed - get them put in stocks on a match day when fans allowed back ! The really sad thing is if caught theyll get off with a fine and a slap on the wrist cos theyll have a smart arsed brief who will portray them as victims of society - makes my fucking blood boil 😡
8 Posted 13/02/2021 at 02:45:03
9 Posted 13/02/2021 at 03:27:41
10 Posted 13/02/2021 at 03:55:02
11 Posted 13/02/2021 at 04:13:21
12 Posted 13/02/2021 at 06:27:28
Imagine we will never know where these burglars originate from, but they are not necessarily from the area.
13 Posted 13/02/2021 at 07:04:26
14 Posted 13/02/2021 at 07:21:44
15 Posted 13/02/2021 at 07:26:23
16 Posted 13/02/2021 at 07:44:21
I hope that Carlo and his Family are okay, and that the CID find these people. It's a great world we live in but there's sadly a lot of terrible people, who think they have the right to thrive and rob off other people.
Hopefully Carlo and his family won't be put off and I'm sure Everton will pull out the stops to help them through this crisis.
Thoughts and prayers with Carlo and his family.
17 Posted 13/02/2021 at 07:48:50
18 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:11:24
19 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:14:48
I do hope this doesn't taint our Manager's seemingly genuine affection for our City.
I have nothing but distain and utter contempt for someone who steals from someone else.
20 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:24:55
Makes your blood boil, but what can you do? Hope there was nothing important taken although if he had a safe you have to think something good's gone. If they carted it away, it sounds like a highly planned robbery, rather than opportunistic scalies.
21 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:25:07
22 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:27:20
Carlo will be pissed but I'm sure he won't blame smackheads (hate that word) or Scousers probably because he understands people are the same all over.
23 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:42:56
Oh yeah, and when your kitchen smells of weed, then that's a good hint – even the nice police lady said so much without saying it...
24 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:46:36
Hopefully the love felt by his colleagues and fans will help.
25 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:52:56
26 Posted 13/02/2021 at 08:57:22
It's not the best idea to have a ''portable'' safe but it might have saved her from a battering.
27 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:04:07
28 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:14:02
I hope Carlo and his family recover from the shock and upset soon.
29 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:22:36
Feel for Carlo and his family and hope it doesnt impact negatively on his view of Everton and the city itself!
It would be good if there was some sort of solidarity gesture from the good people of Crosby/Liverpool and all the Evertonians!
30 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:23:27
31 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:26:30
The description of criminals you come across are not indicative of all criminals. Some of them wear bowler hats and have titles in front of their names.
Hopefully a man as calm as Ancelotti can cajole his family through this. The break-in and confrontation of his daughter will stay with her for a while.
Better to concentrate on the vast majority of good people who live in our city. Every city has their own dogs unfortunately.
32 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:30:42
33 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:35:17
Thankfully his daughter wasn't harmed, and I hope they can overcome this as a family (from a selfish – Everton – point of view)... so they're able to remain settled. It wouldn't surprise me though if this has really unsettled them.
34 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:37:09
Find the culprits and throw them to the Everton masses. It's about time we stopped pussy-footing with people who have no regard for other people's lives.
35 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:37:14
36 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:38:07
They might even be able to give a brief demonstration of what could happen to them if Carlo feels the need to move his family somewhere else.
Just a suggestion.
37 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:47:57
Of course it isn't a problem unique to Liverpool, but for my earlier sentiment, I hope it doesn't affect his judgment of the city.
Without doing the research and maybe because I pay more attention, but burglary on footballer houses does seem to happen to the Merseyside clubs more than others. Seem to remember a spate of them (Liverpool more so) a few years back, which bore the hallmarks of being organised rather than opportunistic drug addicts.
38 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:49:21
I've known my fair share of lads who've been up to no good and it's usually been pre-meditated by quite intelligent individuals and I guarantee it would've been the case with Carlo's house sadly.
As I said on an earlier post, it's a scummy move but let's not use it as an excuse to stereotype, yer?
39 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:57:58
I would go so far as to say Liverpool is very anti “shitting on your own doorstep”. They don't like it, hence a Scouse diaspora of the criminally intent.
40 Posted 13/02/2021 at 09:59:56
The authorities said it was suicide when his worthless carcass was found hanging from a tree 18 months later.
Hopefully these wastrels will experience a bit of lex talionis.
41 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:02:14
42 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:04:39
I live in the South end of Liverpool and know exactly where Carlo's daughter lives, so while she was probably traumatised from what happened, she should have no fear about any such events happening to her house.
Has anybody thought that this could be Liverpool fans, trying to put the frighteners on Carlo and his family, and force him out the club? Are they suddenly fearing we are about to take over world football under Carlo and want to put a stop to it, or are they just brain dead dickheads, like the ones who broke into big Dunc's house? Either way, let's hope they're caught and dealt with.
43 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:06:33
This has got to unsettle Carlo and his Family. Hope they are strong enough to ride this out and enjoy happy lives in our area.
44 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:13:55
Wheres Ricky Oak, hell be able to tell us why the RS are behind it. ;)
45 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:15:13
46 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:24:17
47 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:27:09
A public show of solidarity from Blues in the city too!!
48 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:27:30
I moved out of Liverpool and l don't like saying it but l'm sick of the place. I've been burgled twice. First time, l wasn't in and they cleared the place of what they could carry. Second time, l was confronted by 3 of the bastards. I fought two and then another was behind me, so l pushed them off and locked myself in the bathroom.
Busies did nothing both times. Getting your head around the fact that there are so many rats around that think nothing of doing this... what can you say?
49 Posted 13/02/2021 at 10:54:51
People worse than the burglars are liberals like you, who defend the smackheads and burglars and make them out to be a victim. A massive percentage of all burglaries are committed by smackheads. And the North West has been ravaged by high-profile break-ins, way more than rest of the country. Don't give us this prejudice bollocks and stereotyping crap.
50 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:01:07
His answer was that we should only do that if we wanted to be burgled. If we told nobody and got burgled then that was bad luck but he was fairly sure that we would be if we notified the police. When asked why, he advised that some police kept files on drug addicts and would tell them which houses they should break into and where to take any goods, and if they didn't, they would arrest them on the basis of what was in the files.
Anyone know anyone who has been burgled and police attended or did they have to make an appointment to see an officer at the station and get a number for the insurance?
51 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:03:43
52 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:12:12
He may decide to move to the leafy villages of greater Manchester, like quite a few of his predecessors, which would be a great shame, as I like the fact unlike any other of our managers he chose to live within a short bike ride from the city centre.
Unlike many managers, nobody has a bad word to say about Carlo, not only an exceptionally talented man but very popular amongst his peers which is a rarity in itself. I am sure many Blues will let him know how much he is liked and hopefully the police may find the perpetrators of the crime.
53 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:21:54
Aside from Duncan catching burglars in the act, there have been plenty of stories of footballers across the country targeted – often while matches were being played. I think “Stevie G” was targeted a few years ago and near where I live the homes of several Chelsea players have been targets also.
Hope this doesn't put Carlo and family off the area as it is nice to see someone with his profile embracing the area where he works.
54 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:23:29
55 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:40:53
As I hail from Crosby, I feel let down by these thieves singling out someone who has been nothing but positive for Crosby and the whole of Merseyside. I hope Carlo knows he will have the total support of the community, who will be appalled and I hope his daughter and family are okay.
56 Posted 13/02/2021 at 11:55:03
57 Posted 13/02/2021 at 12:08:13
It won't be long before the perpetrators for this are caught. Lots of those big houses on that road have CCTV. Straightaway the police will get an idea of how the culprits arrived at and left the scene – presumably by car – and they'll piece it together from there.
58 Posted 13/02/2021 at 12:19:35
59 Posted 13/02/2021 at 12:31:10
As long as we have bleeding-heart parole boards etc letting many of them back into society after hardly serving half of their full sentences, then many of them will carry on their nasty work against good people.
60 Posted 13/02/2021 at 13:06:05
All sounds a bit professional to be addicts. We must remember as we call doctors, lawyers, teachers and nurses 'professionals' – so are burglars. They must plan as much as I do for surgery. Surely not all burglaries are done by drug addicts?
This is not isolated to Liverpool but society as a whole. Until sentencing reflects such hideous behaviour, it will only get worse.
On the drug addiction topic. Please remember addicts live in big houses as well. Furthermore, addicts are not born addicted to substances. Not everyone can pull themselves up. Sadly vulnerable people are targeted to take drugs. More government addiction programs are needed. Addiction can happen to anyone. No-one is immune from addiction.
61 Posted 13/02/2021 at 13:16:00
62 Posted 13/02/2021 at 13:29:11
63 Posted 13/02/2021 at 13:42:17
64 Posted 13/02/2021 at 13:54:31
Well done for speaking up for all the hard-working heroin addicts out there and all the good-natured burglars who are misunderstood. It's good to know there are people like you out there that care.
"Carlo will be pissed"? I think if you and your family have been through that, you will be more than pissed off, I think 'traumatised' will be more accurate.
The dangers of stereotyping herion addicts and burglars is clearly more important though.
65 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:11:58
66 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:18:19
What gets disclosed remains to be seen, but it follows a list of footballers in the northwest who've been robbed and I'm sure someone knocked off Shandy Andy's dog when he was with Everton.
Having been burgled myself in the early 1990s, the sense of sanctity is broken, but human spirit and belief gets you through it, but the place is not quite the same again.
67 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:27:35
I despair at your ever forgiving attitudes. Having been the victim of this crime in the past, I can tell you not once did I feel the need to sympathise with the pricks that wrecked my home. Material things can be replaced but the devastation caused to loved ones is incomprehensible to the likes of you.
You are entitled to your opinions of course but the perpetrators are not the victims. I hope you never encounter anything like this.
68 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:27:43
Billy #64, I've been burgled and mugged so understand something of what Ancelotti and his daughter might feel like.
69 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:36:28
70 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:37:08
I sincerely hope, that someone who knows who these people are, will do the right thing asap and that the Police and the Criminal Justice System, do their best to bring a long custodial sentence to bear.
I know I speak for all Evertonians when I say our thoughts are with you and your family.
71 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:37:29
This is the downside of thumbing your nose at the authorities (for what may or may not be understandable reasons), there is reduced buy in or faith in the symbols of society, and toleration of the forces which undermine it.
72 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:40:04
73 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:48:35
A few years ago, my younger brother did a Duncan Ferguson and put some fella in Walton hospital for a few weeks. Not only was my kid brother arrested but the fella sued him. I won't go into the rest.
74 Posted 13/02/2021 at 14:49:57
I believe addiction may be used as an excuse for our behaviour. No!! Do the crime do the time! Simple really.
75 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:12:05
As has been quoted, Liverpool is becoming a hot-bed for organized crime, and the government should be providing more financial aid to combat it. There are plenty of people in Liverpool who are broke and hungry but don't turn to this type of behavior. These are the people who need help, and not the scum who done this who will be protected by the gang culture.
76 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:19:24
We were robbed!
77 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:27:09
78 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:29:45
79 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:30:51
I just heard minutes back, came and opened the thread, and your first paragraph is exactly what came to mind when I heard.
Of course, every crime in Liverpool/Merseyside region is treated as ten fold of elsewhere, in certain parts of the media – "Hub cap" jokes just dying out decades after they stopped being fitted.
Lucky that Ancelotti's daughter's possible bravery/curiosity didn't get her hurt, which is the main thing above all else.
Drugs or not is not really relevant, nor an excuse – conscious criminal motivation was the cause.
Colin – your brother; been there, back in the '90s, in "Safe", leafy Cheshire at the time. I can take a guess at the rest.
Next step now is annoying, extensive fortification, and off-site 24-hour monitoring systems etc. Then a case of seeing if the discomfort fades over the coming months, and the "sense of sanctity", as Paul calls it, returns.
80 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:32:35
81 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:32:48
82 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:53:31
One of the lowest forms of so-called humanity, these individuals are. And statistically, the offenders will have been addicts. Maybe not heroin addicts, but addicts. Crack perhaps? Who knows? And more importantly, who cares? They are just rats.
The good news, however, is that there is no honour amongst thieves and, one way or another, a big gob on one of these criminal masterminds will say something they shouldn't.
"Loose lips sink ships" as they say, and once the name is out in circulation, they will be dealt with.
Rehabilitation? – sorry, Paul, but I respectfully disagree with that notion in circumstances such as these.
83 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:53:42
Scouser's have long since had to live with the stereotypical image in the media. Most people who looked for work outside the City during the Thatcher years would have experience "that" reaction as soon as they opened their mouths.
National newspapers and media have peddled this image of the thieving work-shy scouser for years. Comedians like Harry Enfield have made "harmless" comedy sketches. Even our own Carla Lane peddled the myth of the lovable workshy scally.
The thieving Scouser became as much folk law as the "tight Jock". the "thick Brummie", the Welsh sheep admirer, and the "North-east dentist dodgers" (although, it has to be conceded, the last one deffo has legs).
I don't care if there is a thousand break-ins a night in Manchester. London or Birmingham. One break in in Liverpool will get more headlines – watch this story fly.
When I left Liverpool for work in the seventies, me mam's house was knocked down and she moved to a new house just off Boundary Street. I was worried. Me arl fella had not long gone and there were some well known hard men in the street she was moving into.
I needn't have worried. She and the rest of the "golden girls" were treated like queens. The people in the street looked after them as if they were their own mams.
Woe... and I do mean woe betide anyone who gave these "arl ones" any grief. There probably wasn't a safer place in the country for them.
This is not something that happened only in the past. Since I moved back, I have seen people in this City going to extraordinary lengths to look after each other... this is how we do it.
Unfortunately, there is no getting away from it. We do have our fair share of idiots and gobshites who will always give the papers an excuse to talk about the "thieving workshy scally". It helps them get past the fact that their own cities are riddled with lowlife.
I'm a bit of a bleeding heart liberal with regard to judicial punishment but, when somebody enters the home of decent honest family, all bets are off.
Duncan Ferguson had a good way of dealing with these life-wreckers. Jamie Crowley (of this parish) has a better one "Swiss cheese" is the way he described what his retribution would look like.
Liked it then. Like it now
84 Posted 13/02/2021 at 15:59:12
I well believe your comment on the Government. I live in Canada now but I was born and worked in England for over 20 years. I have been receiving the pension I earned since 2005, but do not receive any increases on it over the years. We are told this was an agreement with the Commonwealth countries years ago but knew nothing about it.
If some of our Everton supporters have children who have emigrated to a Commonwealth country and would like to retire with them, beware your pension will be frozen.
85 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:13:26
86 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:20:31
And I don't see how you can laud 'hard men' by which I assume you mean career criminals, and then draw a cliff edge at household burglary. The two go hand in hand.
87 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:23:29
Same with the NHS.
They are not overun and unable to cope with the workload because of Covid-19. It is due to the way Tories have deliberately run the NHS into the floor. Savage cost-cutting while encouraging private health care is the reason they are overwhelmed.
88 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:31:55
89 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:45:29
I ask you?
How bloody stupid is that?
I've always believed in freedom of the press, but I also believe in responsible reporting!
Surely it is sufficient for the purpose of the report to say that his home in Crosby was burgled, without the need to name the street?
If I was a resident in that area, I would be furious with the BBC over this.
90 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:46:22
That supposedly funny Harry Enfield skit ruined one of my mates life. He was a Liverpool fan from St Helens whose family moved South. He was relentlessly bullied.
Any time someone's tuck money went missing he was the prime suspect. He was a nice kid, but became an extreme introvert — still is.
The irony was, that at our school everyone supported Everton. It was required as the school chaplain from Merseyside was an Everton fan. Everyone aged four was indoctrinated for life.
But most of the kids were too thick to associate the team they supported with the city they're from and so this kid and his whole family were harassed and bullied for years with the mildest abuse being people impersonating Harry Enfield.
91 Posted 13/02/2021 at 16:54:02
Miles out, mate. The two do not go hand in hand.
House burglars deserve everything they get. And to add to that, the house robber usually gets a walkover in court. The person taking retribution, if caught, ends up living in Hornby Road.
92 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:04:08
But my Liverpool will prevail over yours... It has to.
93 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:08:25
That was the case while I was growing up but it's not now. I have seen cases of people from decent families locked up for burglaries in the recent past.
Society has a major problem in economic division now and a person not so well off may rather steal for a living than work for not great money.
It's also a buzz for these people and not always youngsters committing the crime.
Going forward, I can't see many poorly paid jobs being offered to people either and more of this news being a result of that.
94 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:31:04
Let's be careful here. We are assuming these thieves are from Liverpool? Why name the street? Carlo and his family with other residents must feel safer now! Unbelievable and what purpose does that serve?
Crime will escalate if the police, councils, and government don't come together. Community is dead sadly. People just don't know who their next door neighbour is let alone who lives across the road. The police need to be more visible. That's the real problem.
95 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:35:23
96 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:37:06
Why do you think I am miles out when I contend that the presence of career criminals and the prevalence of household burglary go hand in hand?
97 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:38:02
I can't see where the money comes from to keep people from crime or to prevent it.
Stay vigilant and alert is all I can suggest to anyone for the future.
98 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:43:24
Society has always had an economic divide. There have always been those on low wages and low paid jobs. There have always been criminals and thieves. In Liverpool, in the UK, globally.
I don't think it is a modern phenomenon.
Arguably the only difference now is the entitlement. More people now seem to think that if they can't have it, that's not their problem, they're going to help themselves anyway, regardless of whether they can afford it or not, even if that means helping themselves to someone else's.
Not how I was brought up. And I am not from a privileged background.
99 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:46:10
You were miles out when you "assumed" the hard men who dealt with house burglars were carreer criminals.
100 Posted 13/02/2021 at 17:55:16
how do you know?
101 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:03:29
Notwithstanding that nobody outside of the area gives a shit about Liverpool and its perception.
Drop the martyr act.
102 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:15:46
103 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:17:39
104 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:21:20
105 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:30:38
Worse than this though is the mindless antisocial behaviour that serves no obvious purpose.
106 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:30:55
Everything is in our faces. Luxuries and riches are posted in our faces daily. I work for a living and love a luxury but we are all different.
I see luxuries as a bonus and appreciate them. Some want to flaunt it. The people left behind want to catch up.
There is a stat in America and I think its the top 3% are richer than the other 97%. It's near enough that anyway. It's similar here and getting worse.
Look at the crimes in America and how young hoodlums over here want to catch up with the riches. Car jacking, hostage jobs, threatening life with weapons, you name it.
I am not speculating on where these thieves come from but, if they did live in the city, it's no suprise is it? Every city has its dirt and code went out of the window years back.
107 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:35:20
108 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:52:24
Back in the days he mentioned, a working man could fight a criminal and that was the end of it, even if the working man was harder.
It's not the case now. The working man could be shot for standing up for himself. Respect doesn't live in today's world and the average person is scared to lose face.
I assumed Darren was reffering to Respect. Society in general knew when to stop and when you looked a wrongun in the community. Nowadays, society is shameless.
109 Posted 13/02/2021 at 18:54:09
I'm not saying in all of Everton but in bits, certain things are off-limits and, if not strictly adhered too, then there is severe retribution, especially if the crime is against any long resident oldies.
Obviously it's not like the old days when you could leave your front door open; however, if certain front doors are opened today, those opening them will never do it again.
110 Posted 13/02/2021 at 19:08:49
My local butcher advertised a Valentine's Day special in his shop window. Buy two prime steaks and get a free bottle of wine.
Some law-abiding snitch contacted police who arrived quickly at the crime scene, in numbers. Removed poster and confiscated wine. Reporting burglars in your house usually, if the police are being especially on the ball, results in some victim support leaflets being delivered to you, often as quickly as a week after the burglars escape.
Seems to me that policing is often at the convenience of the police.
111 Posted 13/02/2021 at 19:18:12
112 Posted 13/02/2021 at 19:27:28
Yes, the context in which Darren mentioned his mum's new neighbours sounded as though he was using 'hard' as a euphemism for people operating outside of the law. 'Hard' of course doesn't always mean 'criminal' but I got the impression it did here...
113 Posted 13/02/2021 at 19:31:25
Every area had hard men years ago. Men who could, with a word, put a stop to any nonsense. The local people went to them for help if they were troubled with anything.
None of the ones I knew were criminals. All hard working men, full of respect for their communities.
The way a few shithouses running around the streets nowadays conduct themselves mean the protection they offered couldn't happen in the modern-day.
114 Posted 13/02/2021 at 19:53:16
Again, these days, you need a weapon and a lack of respect. I'd bet every poster on here knew a likeable criminal or one that was popular enough if you didn't like them.
All I seem to see now is cowardly acts from thugs that can't respect their own and can't bear authority.
115 Posted 13/02/2021 at 20:07:08
116 Posted 13/02/2021 at 20:11:58
117 Posted 13/02/2021 at 21:00:04
119 Posted 13/02/2021 at 23:00:28
120 Posted 13/02/2021 at 23:05:55
Tell that to the people who are on the receiving side... no difference if a family suffer.
121 Posted 13/02/2021 at 23:08:51
122 Posted 13/02/2021 at 23:30:16
The families on the receiving end won't get the "points above" – they've probably suffered too much?
123 Posted 14/02/2021 at 00:11:37
Genuine hard men weren't necessarily intimidating bullies who made people suffer. I think that was the point being made.
124 Posted 14/02/2021 at 00:26:45
Do you really think it matters? I think the point that was being made was that there was "good" hard men and I don't think so. There's right & wrong Danny... surely?
125 Posted 14/02/2021 at 00:44:06
126 Posted 14/02/2021 at 01:41:32
Tried my best but couldn't fall out with you... you're one of life's good guys; actually there's a few on here!
127 Posted 14/02/2021 at 01:48:24
They were called the Chindits and were sent to Burma to fight the Japanese in the jungles. Will not talk about what went on there, but he arrived home after the war nearly a year after it was over, and suffered with malaria.
After the war, his pride and joy was his rose garden andhe would cycle back and forth from Croxteth to Garston to work. And, with many like him, they are who I considered 'hard men'.
128 Posted 14/02/2021 at 05:37:02
It probably wasn't right then but, to a great extent, it is non-existent now. To misuse another phrase from that time; "I'm al(l)right, Jack" which seems more than evident during this pandemic.
129 Posted 14/02/2021 at 09:43:05
131 Posted 14/02/2021 at 10:17:29
I've seen programmes on tv where a burglary has been committed and a car stolen from the property. When the Police stop the car and arrest the driver who has the car keys the CPS offer no case due to insufficient evidence.
So do they believe that, within a short time of the 3 am robbery, someone has just passed on a brand new car with it's keys to a perfect stranger free of charge. It is a complete and utter joke.
Perhaps the Cosy Nostril may chance upon the culprits.
133 Posted 14/02/2021 at 10:35:59
134 Posted 14/02/2021 at 10:46:56
Also, the Crown hates domestic break-ins and is not lenient to perpetrators (another myth), perpetuated by clickbait narcissists to stoke anger & division.
People need hope and work needs to pay off. We need better role models. Growing up in Liverpool in the 80s was interesting, the men left either to work or graft (commit crime elsewhere) often lauded for their endeavours, we looked up to them. After all, everyone hated Scousers, just look what Thatcher did, so it was justified and made okay.
I moved away at 16 (couldn't get away quick enough); dark days the 80s. I'm a proud Scouser and I have experienced judgment and respect in equal measure. Going home is great (I still call it 'home') but my peers are very parochial in their attitude. I think it cements the Scouse identity and protects the culture but can come across as arrogant and blinkered.
I have lost my accent – it's easier to be understood and maybe it's a survival technique in the South. I will always be a Scouser at heart.
135 Posted 14/02/2021 at 10:48:26
136 Posted 14/02/2021 at 11:18:32
During the last decade, plenty of people I work with have visited the city for stag nights, mini-breaks, exhibitions etc and all have commented on how impressed they were with the city and the locals that they met (my son attended LIPA and confirms a similar reaction from the families of his fellow students from Scandinavia).
Admittedly most of these visits were spent in the city centre/Albert Dock area and on organised tours rather the pubs of Walton & Norris Green, but this is how impressions of cities are formed. I've no doubt that the new cruise terminal (I think it's still happening?) will provide the vehicle to introduce and impress more new audiences.
137 Posted 14/02/2021 at 12:40:43
I have my moments, but I'll take that compliment thanks!!
138 Posted 14/02/2021 at 12:43:14
139 Posted 14/02/2021 at 12:58:52
When Liverpool was awarded Capital of Culture, I used to ask many students what their family and friends had said when they said they were going to study in Liverpool? They'd all laugh and then most would then say things like, “why the hell have you picked Liverpool? Have you gone mad” or words to that affect, and then go on to tell me, that they now had visitors every week, and sometimes wished Liverpool wasn't so good because of this!
That's why the Bramley-Moore Dock project is so important imo, because most people's mindset towards Liverpool is so much different nowadays and the scope on our waterfront is incredible. It could conceivably make the city, second only to London, when looked at through a positive lens.
140 Posted 14/02/2021 at 13:00:54
Martyr Act??? On the contrary.
First of all, I simply don't accept that people around this country didn't or don't harbour a pre-conceived perception of your average scouser. I have seen too much evidence of it.
Most of it is playful banter. I've lost count of the number of times I've driven into a different city to be greeted by old side splitters like "Is it (the load) still all there, scouse?"
I spent time coaching at Milton Keynes just after the place experienced a mass invasion from all over the country as people flooded into the "New City" looking for work. Every time – and I do mean every time – a scouse lad would walk into the dressing room, some comedian would say "Look out, lads, hide the wallets."
I've experienced this in ale houses up and down the country for years. Like most prejudice, it isn't intended to be malicious, it's often hidden under the veil of humour... but, trust me, it exists.
Scousers have dealt with this in many ways, but playing victim or martyr isn't one of them. In the past, they would likely perpetuated the perception, playing along with it, throwing in a few comments of their own.
I've seen a real switch in the way Scousers view the outside world too. Years ago, they would travel to other cities looking to mix with opposition fans wanting to share a bevy and some banter... that's all but gone these days. The prejudice did not abate and many scousers decided to actually cultivate the image. They would do things they wouldn't dream of doing at home.
The "we're not English, we're Scouser's" attitude has gathered legs serious legs. In my experience, I think it's gone the other way. The down-to-earth fun-lover has gone and (possibly as a result of years of prejudice) he`s been replaced by arrogance dressed in "North Face". A very definite feeling of superiority. Any fun we have these days is strictly between ourselves.
I think you will find a distinct absence of martyrdom if you boarded a bus or train leaving this city to an Everton game these days... Some of these lads look so far down their noses at people from other cities, they need to pack a deck chair to even know they are there.
141 Posted 14/02/2021 at 13:00:58
I agree on the rehabilitation of offenders (sex cases excepted), although the obstacles put in front of a lad who made a mistake and is looking to get his life back on track are massive.
I have to disagree on the point re leniency to burglars of working-class dwellings. People who have had their houses done will tell you, police give them a case number for insurance and may get someone calling to the house a week later. Probably a different story if it's a high-end dwelling.
I can only go by my own experience. Many years ago, a family member had their house broken into, nothing of value to take except an old video recorder and telly. They still took it though. The outcome was they still walked around in freedom. I didn't.
An English man's home is his castle? Bollocks, you're not even allowed to protect it.
142 Posted 14/02/2021 at 13:09:24
Maybe they would think twice. Let's hope the bastards end up wrapped around some tree somewhere in the car they've probably stolen. Tossers.
143 Posted 14/02/2021 at 13:37:44
Yes, mostly it is humorous banter with no malice intended. I often find people are genuinely intrigued and discovering a Liverpool citizen in a bar still attracts much interest. The inevitable first question is "Red or Blue" obviously!
I'm not sure if this is the same point, but I think I have parallels. The psyche of the Scouser has changed too. Obviously I'm generalising now and have raised this on an earlier discussion. A once global facing city that was outward looking, built on Irish immigrants, mixed with merchant sailors from Scandinavia and Europeans who didn't quite make the boat to the New World. The oldest black and Chinese communities in the UK. A people rich in humour, intellect and art.
We clearly still have the latter but the city seemed to become insular and inward looking; defensive almost. It got as bad as arguing about an invisible local political boundary as to whether Kirkby was part Liverpool during the thankfully ill-fated stadium debate. I mean, does anyone want to tell John Conteh (Kirkby), Peter Reid (Huyton) and Steve McMahon (Halewood) they aren't Scousers because they are not from within the city boundaries? Even Spit the Carra-Dog-Lar (Bootle); you can't deny him his Scouser-ship. I'm so glad we've adopted the Liverpool City Region concept, albeit decades behind Greater Manchester that embraced the broader regional thinking in the footsteps of Greater London (which itself is a collection of traditional towns and boroughs).
Mother's tale (so caveat on accuracy), but didn't we turn down the opportunity to develop the Speke Aerodrome back in the 50s because "Liverpool will always be a port"? Manchester said thank you and look at them now. Birmingham will still claim it on population, but Manchester is now the de-facto second city in the UK outside London and we are a regional satellite.
Sorry, that touched a nerve. I appreciate that there are many, many late 20th century political and socio-economic late 20th century factors at play here, so not a dig or slur on my home city by any means, just an observation from an exile.
To finish on a positive and another point touched on above, the regeneration of the city centre is nothing beyond stunning and is painting Liverpool in a much more positive light. Everyone I know has nothing but good things to say about a trip to our city centre. And these are couples and families on weekend breaks, not stag or hen doos. Imagine when our sparkling new stadium is part of that. We are definitely not far from being Thatcher's toilet and have made much progress, but those perceptions are still there however lighthearted, whether we like it or not.
144 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:07:06
I totally agree that the completion of the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock will be a big boost. I'm sure you are correct about the waterfront too.
Like you, I'm old enough to remember what the area around the Three Graces / Pier Head looked like in the 70s – grimy and unimpressive – and a good place to avoid. Today of course it is very impressive and (post-Covid) teeming with both locals & visitors.
I don't know the Bramley-Moore Dock area that well – but north of the tunnel it seems there is miles of waterfront (occupied by old/redundant docks) ripe for development. I wonder if we'll live long enough to see Bootle described as Bohemian??
145 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:18:01
The crime stats don't show Liverpool as having any significant difference to any other major city of similar socio-economic profile. Crime and deprivation are inextricably linked.
I also have mates who live in leafy Surrey, now that tends to be a different type of night out...
146 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:18:15
"Most of it is playful banter. Like most prejudice, it isn't intended to be malicious, it's often hidden under the veil of humour... but, trust me, it exists."
So what's the problem?
No one is suggesting these jibes don't exist but, if mostly in jest, why the upset?
Since Adam was a lad, the term "wool" has been thrown at anyone beyond the city boundaries and our wonderful Welsh legions carry inflatable sheep as an ironic piss-take of the epithet "sheep shagger". These terms and many others are so integral to denizens of the locality, there simply must be night school lessons for the mindless in how to perfect being a "professional scouser".
Bottom line is: If we can't take it, don't give it out.
As for the "We are Scouse, not English" nonsense, it is the living embodiment of scouse martyrdom spawned by balloons taking themselves too seriously.
If they had the wit and guile to respond to jokes at their expense, they wouldn't have to resort to the nonsense that empowers the stereotype.
Btw, my away trips through the 70s were considerably different to the picture you paint – more akin to commando incursions into enemy territory, to be honest.
147 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:24:49
I don't think I will see it all, but hopefully my kids will, on a magnificent landscape that will definitely make the city of Liverpool great again!
148 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:32:15
149 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:33:11
I go along with that. I knew quite a few good hard men, who played by the rules, could use themselves, but only if trouble came to them or their families. Good friends but bad enemies and always worked for a living.
Before I moved to Norris Green, I lived off Great Homer Street. A lady who lived not far from me, her house was broken into, she had three young children, her husband had left, she knew who had done the job but had no back-up.
One of her neighbours said “Tell so-and-so your story.”
She did so; he asked “Are you positive it was him?”
She assured him that she was. So he went direct to the fella's house, told him he'd give him a week to make sure everything was given back to the lady, if he had sold some of the stuff, then he had better get it back. He knew the score (the shitbag) and the lady got everything back.
You never rob your own, that was the mantra with working class people then... not sure about now.
150 Posted 14/02/2021 at 14:39:38
That's the way it was in working class areas. And working class areas were made all the better for the presence of these men.
The dogs soon get the message when the message is presented in a certain way.
151 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:03:24
I don't think you grasped the point at all
"they dont need either “wit or guile” to respond to humour that just isnt remotely funny?"
Many of us do find it funny and understand the spirit in which it is given. As I said we give enough out and shouldn't be indignant about getting some back. Certainly never worried me in the slightest
153 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:12:30
There is no other city in the country or any other that I'm aware of, which is subject to this sort of stuff EVERY other City in the country aims at this city. Trust me when I tell the humor disappears very rapidly when those engaging in the "banter" belief they are in a scouse free zone.
You can not escape the fact that this city is unique. no other city receives this attention. No other City has faced a government determined to wipe it from the map. Thatchers government wasnt the first to try to manage the decline of this city. No Other City has faced the sort of distorted misleading negative press this one has faced.
A million and a half Irishmen have come to this city. an estimated 75% of the population has Irish ancestry. That is another factor which makes our City unique.
People have a far greater access to their heritage these days. They will be aware of successive British Governments turning their backs on this City. That doesnt make them "Scouse Martyrs spawned by balloons taking themselves to seriously. It makes them proud people informed enough to know they have had to stand alone.
I don't find it difficult to understand why the citizens of a city would want to turn their backs on a country whose governments have a long history of turning its back on them.
You call it Martyrdom. I call it pride. They stood alone and not only are they still standing, they are thriving.
It does not take guile or wit to counter mindless chants of you stole my stereo..Or sign on with pen in your hand..
BTW Barry thousands would travel to those away matches.. Most would go for a pint and a bit of Craic. Often they would inadvertently witness or get caught up in the violence...but only a few hundred would actively go looking for it.
154 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:18:29
The UK, yes. But that's probably more down to my Liverpool Irish & Northern Irish roots with some Scottish thrown in as well as serving the Union Flag (not St George's Cross).
I am proud to come from my very unique city and I hold a British (not English) passport.
155 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:31:02
Tell that to the mining communities of South Wales, North East and South Yorkshire. Tell that to the residents of Grenfell. Go back a little further tell that to the residents of Manchester after Peterloo.
Exceptionalism and self aggrandisement probably makes everyone feel a little better but essentially power has tended to prey on working people regardless of their city of origin.
There is a good reason the average life expectancy of a man in Salford is 72 and in Hammersmith its 82
156 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:31:03
It was undoubtedly there, no dispute on that, but the more tourists that stay in the city and report back to thier friends on the positive side of our city the more people will visit.The more the preconceived ideas will disappear.
Try booking a hotel room at the weekend in the city centre.
Look at the 62 on a Friday /Saturday
Mini buses from all over the country on the way in.
Sooner we get back to that the better.
157 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:35:03
"sort of stuff from EVERY other City in the country aims at this city"
What stuff are they saying about us Coventry, Truro, Gloucester?
"Not other City has faced a government determined to wipe it from the map."
I'm guessing that's why Heseltine was given the freedom of the city
proud people informed enough to know they have had to stand alone.
You call it Martyrdom. I call it pride.
A difference of opinion which, much like the japes you admitted as mostly jest, I find difficult to get het up about.
But carry on
158 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:37:27
159 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:38:20
We don't forget what the Tories attempted in our city and act, vote accordingly.
Some people in the mining areas you mentioned forgot the previous brutality and elected Tory MPs.
160 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:41:10
161 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:42:16
162 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:42:56
The measure of the place is that those fascist fuckers who tried to march a couple of years ago were blocked from getting out of the station.
We have every reason to be proud and optimistic and we shouldn't navel-gaze because a couple of dickheads raided Carlo's house, horrible though that was.
163 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:44:59
Many, not all, get into that unenviable cycle because they are trying to get away from a life that is unimaginable to most of us. Their crimes are usually random, disorganised robbery, petty theft, utterly pointless fraud, often against those closest to them. Prisons are full of them, and always will be, because locking them up is easier but ultimately fruitless. I know that this means nothing to their victims who quite understandably want the key thrown away.
From the little I know of the burglary at Carlo's house, I would suspect we are talking about a different type of criminal. They do see a lifestyle they want and they feel they are entitled to it. They tend to be well organized, remorseless and unceasing in what they do.
Restorative justice, which works well as part of rehabilitation has no impact on this type of person. Ever increasing violence is how they advance nowdays. Not everyone wants to be helped, especially those with a highly developed sense of entitlement to what they want, be it sexual, financial or in control of others. Best thing is to keep them away from the rest of us for as long as necessary. No solution fits everyone.
164 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:48:01
Dont twist it.
Did any labour seats in mining areas turn Tory?
165 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:53:17
We are different and we are unique. Sometimes in our own mindset. We also have much in common with those areas Graham mentioned but who also have their own unique local and regional identities they feel sets them apart.
I always used to get frustrated with the Scottish "blame the English for our woes" narrative. A Glaswegian has not had it harder than any scouser but the Scottish Nationalists have pounced on that.
I'm not saying a Scouse nation is on the rise, but we need to be careful of that. To Darren's earlier point, the "Scouse not English" sentiment plays into the "self pity city" or "victim" mentality that some will throw at us.
Back to the positives, most people I know are intrigued by Liverpool and those that visit love the place. And that's without the need for my unashamed marketing / sales plug for the old country!!
166 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:53:55
Undoubtedly some did, Bolsover, Bishop Auckland, Don Valley maybe a couple more. However the vast majority certainly didnt. Doesnt really support your Scouse exceptionalism argument.
Not sure what divide Im on the opposite side of.
167 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:55:10
Very well written
168 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:57:36
169 Posted 14/02/2021 at 15:57:52
170 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:05:36
If there is one thing the last election proved is the idea of a Labour/Tory divide is now a fallacy.
171 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:13:07
Andy, I cannot stand theft or taking what is not yours, so will always have a strong opinion on that.
But I also try not to judge people who for many reasons end up in a desperate situation they do not want to be in. I am advocate of making your own choices but appreciate it is not that simplistic for everyone.
A former colleague of mine recently forward assailed down a tower block to raise funds for the homeless. As he put it, most people in the country are only 3 decisions away from being homeless.
Be opinionated. Know right from wrong, but always be humble and have humility.
172 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:15:26
We need to keep our open face and trust ourselves and our canniness. The city has been immeasurably improved over the last 30 years. After the necessary upheaval wIth the Toxteth riots, we have blossomed. We're a key world city and that is going to become more and more evident.
We have problems like anywhere, but we have gorgeous buildings, a great waterfront, a real multi-cultural atmosphere and a welcoming mentality. I'm in my 70s but I've never enjoyed living in the city more than I do now.
173 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:16:12
174 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:18:44
175 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:26:01
Mr Speaker told him to withdraw.
"OK, half the Tory members aren't crooks."
One of my all time favourite politicians Dennis
176 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:31:56
177 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:44:33
That is what assumptions will do for you.
178 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:55:58
Happy to be wrong
You are a Labour voter?
179 Posted 14/02/2021 at 16:58:18
But you keep assuming mate
180 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:02:23
181 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:02:41
182 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:06:37
They didnt just go fro the one industry here. They wanted the place on its knees. Zero investment.
What are they saying in Coventry Gloucester and Truro ? The same thing they are saying in all the other city's. Anyone who has ever attended an Everton match will have heard half witted songs about "You're Liverpool slums" "Signing on" Thieving scroungers.
No other clubs fans get this sort of shit at EVERY single ground for Every single match simply because of the City they are based in.
I love that Evertonians simply point and mock the idiots singing them.
If you get treated differently. You act differently,
I see no martyrs among our ranks. Just people mocking half witted prejudice and treating it with the contempt it deserves.
Anyway. its rapidly approaching match time and Amazon have not delivered my beer or my Bushmills. I'm off out
183 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:11:20
184 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:16:44
To think Liverpool has been picked on as manufacturing jobs have been decimated across working class communities all over the country is exceptionalism at its finest.
In fact at least Liverpool has the advantage of being a major metropolis. Take a wander around Port Talbot or Grimethorpe or Easington and tell me youve had a raw deal
185 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:20:32
186 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:23:21
My apologies brother
187 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:25:48
We have a common enemy and I agree it's not about degrees of persecution.
Liverpool, though, has uniquely remained solid in its voting habits. I understand why others have not, but they have been fooled.
188 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:37:11
I understand why others have not, but they have been fooled.
Not as clever as you Scousers?
189 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:42:31
190 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:43:35
191 Posted 14/02/2021 at 17:59:07
192 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:00:02
193 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:01:23
Can we have a vote on that
194 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:07:37
Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and their band of fellow traveller left-wing nutters lost Labour the 2019 election because they lost contact with and understanding of what the ‘working class believed in and had no appeal to the moderate swing voters. Even on your blessed Merseyside Labours share of the vote was down over 6% vs 2017.
Disparage Mr Blair all you like, but he is the only Labour leader since Wilson to win an election, and he won 3 by appealing to voters beyond the traditional Labour core. Should this tell us something?
195 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:10:09
196 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:25:37
197 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:29:29
"what does it feel like to be a blue blood"
"I'm not a blue blood.
My ancestors just had the biggest gang at the time"
Always had a bit of time for him.
He made a few quid on the Liverpool One deal as well as it transfoming the city centre Kevin
198 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:36:47
199 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:46:17
Kevin, your post is what I say about being outward looking, not insular.
I'm not sure the political voting thing is a positive. Where has it got the city? Manchester and London generally have a mix of Labour and Conservative; both generally Labour in the majority but a counter to the argument. One-party politics can become single-minded dictatorship either side of the spectrum. A healthy balance of opinion and debate is usually the best means of moving forward as it opens the eyes to things we otherwise wouldn't consider or see.
As this site and this thread often demonstrates.
200 Posted 14/02/2021 at 18:49:36
The Mersey will dry up the day a Tory MP is elected in this city though, mate.
201 Posted 14/02/2021 at 20:05:03
202 Posted 14/02/2021 at 22:09:14
203 Posted 15/02/2021 at 03:10:10
Like you, Thomas's posse of ‘Equalizers' weren't what sprung immediately to mind.
204 Posted 15/02/2021 at 04:12:34
I suspect Darren Hind is one of these gangsters but, like Escobar, he presents himself as a Robin Hood as opposed to the Joker from Batman-like nihilist he is.
205 Posted 15/02/2021 at 12:20:32
207 Posted 16/02/2021 at 01:08:21
By the way you spelt my name wrong. Easy mistake though kind of like when people say “hind” and others take it to mean “ass”
208 Posted 16/02/2021 at 05:30:44
The other one ? well.. That was kinda just largely ignored.
Seems nobody is interested. At least we both know your reason for incessantly referring to another poster in your Attempts to get some interest.
Knock yourself out lad.
But know this;You people who constantly want to snipe at other individuals from behind your pc would put this site into a self induced coma if your own contributions were left to stand alone
209 Posted 17/02/2021 at 05:34:44
210 Posted 19/02/2021 at 10:14:16
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