Champions League Final

I hope Carlo pulls it off, will we see black borders on the sport pages then?

Loads of big loopy crosses from Arnold and spawny bounces. Henderson – without doubt the worst captain in the history football to win a Premier League trophy – running around pointing at things. Can't remember the last time they had a player sent off, a penalty against, or an actual injury crisis.

I can watch Man City but not these. Ever. It's horrible. Hala Madrid!!

All week the BBC have run stories on their players, sometimes several each day. I hope that Real Madrid expose them for the over-rated, predictable. long ball merchants that they are.

Becker to have a mare and perhaps get sent-off for tripping Benzema. Their lovely fans to go on a rampage and get us all banned from Europe. It wouldn't matter to us. Oh, and if they do win on pens, a nice pitch invasion.

Apparently someone has invented a fake coach company called coach innovation's, an the sole person with active control was called Mr Richard Arlison.

I know they should have read the small print, but that's a very naughty trick that someone has played on those stranded Liverpudlians, and definitely one that's going to fan the flames of hatred even further!

Tony that's a typical Twatter story. The company in question has been in operation since 2006.

There are loads who've fell for it and believe it mind. Which is funnier than if it were true to be honest. 🤣

The other day, I read a very good article in The Independent of how money is ruining football and how in the future it will be almost impossible for a club outside of the elite to be successful.

We were mentioned in it as The Everton Problem – where clubs cherry-pick our best players, as seen with Stones and Lukaku.

I won't be watching today but of course hoping Liverpool get stuffed.

Guess which club?

Deal with Devil, or very dodgy medical practices. Simply zero other rational explanation.

Come on Don Carlo!

I guess the thread is here due to interest. There are many fourms - maybe following Real, for example? It's all optional... and provided free of charge; not bad.

Come on, Blue Carlo.

Always outraged never embarrassed.

https://twitter.com/MORTTHEFOURTH/status/1530620776185044996?s=20&t=Qp7cJ2W3JCy5ieJ4cokeFA

At it again

How can things vary so widely at this level, in this age - weird.

Irregardless, is there any desire for a Live Forum? Guess I can open the gates anyway, for those who are more comfortable in there...?

Gary Lineker has just tweeted: Finding it impossible to get in the ground. This appears to be very dangerous.

It is the pinnacle of European football, and there is an English team involved, and we want to see that team get twatted! 🤣

Oh and by the way, the rs lot have been tear-gassed due to their behaviour outside the stadium.

Watch the dirty kopite media try and spin thi.s

(Swearing in French only).

No matter how much we despise Uefa, FFP, the entitlement of the monied clubs with fat Euro coefficients, the biased refs, the shite of the VAR, etc etc, at the heart of it is (or should be) a game of football between two teams. One of them happens to be led by our ex-manager, which means something for some of us.

I fucking hate Liverpool and every single unnecessary reference to them on this Everton website. But, as Brian says, this is the Champions League Final, 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvsU48M4dpY

In an update to the plight of the fans left behind, Jordan Halliwell wrote: "No communication at all, had fellas there with tickets for the game aswell but can’t go now.

"200 fans stranded for 6 hours with no communication from the company and not even any update

Before adding: "Empty coaches drove past the stop beeping at us, got through to a manager on the phone and got told no one was at the stop we were at apparently."

Fuck 'em!

You know I always loved you.

Thibo too, easiest MOTM pick ever

everton, we never shone so brightly
everton, the spirit of the blues.
everton, we never shone so brightly
everton, the spirit of the blues.

If one thing is tougher to take than relegation, it must be losing a Champions League Final. The pain is all theirs. Let’s just hope they behave themselves.

Funny how quick things can change in football.

Onwards and upwards.
COYB.

Yes, but he’s OUR c***

YNWA in the dole queue

That’s for you Dazzler

Err ...I’m off

This is why we love Richarlison.

Well done Carlo

"Hi, I'm Richard Arlison. There never was a coach. So get walking, but don't worry - you'll never walk alone."

Just shows, you can be the best manager in the world, but to turn us into anything half decent Is close to impossible - here’s to another struggle in 2022-23….

They had a look about them of a side not quite right mentally and in their general performance.

Quadruple in their grasp and they fucked it up. That's going to take some coming back from. Archangel Michael is Blue.

To think, there were people on here telling us he was a busted flush and a has-been. You see what happened to us when he left. Minus 20 points compared to last season.

I've always said that they're Mock Tudor to our crumbling Country House. Snobbish, I acknowledge, but they just keep missing the mark despite all their hard work over many years; still don't know which cutlery to use.

Carlo Fantastico!!

Their parade, despite the hideous gurning of their Leader and the windy choruses of their "faithful", is going to be an exquisite anti-climax. Relish it.

Just want to add that klipperly looks collapsed in the interview.

Also, is the FA Cup now Worthless Cup II?

Sad… I loved the FA Cup.

Just think back to last January when we where in the top 4 and Moshiri and Kenwright presented him with Josh king.

We will never win a thing with those 2 involved at the club.

Up the Toffees

Anyway it's been a good fortnight for Evertonians, and never forget that the lovable rogues from across the park, wanted Everton relegated almost as much, if not more than they wanted to win the major trophies. If their fans start giving Blues grief for being obsessed about their club, kindly remind them that even when they are chasing everything they still have an eye on Everton FC.

Congratulations to Carlo!

Let the whinging begin.

Link

That doesn't mean, if any muppet is reading this, that I have a scintilla of regard for THEM.

On the contrary I always ask who's responsible for us being so shite for so many decades.

A blind, deaf man knows the answer but how pathetic is it to extol on an Everton website the "glory" of bog-standard serial winners against mega-favoured UK pretenders?

It makes me fucking angry.

Liverpool have been over the media, terms like ‘revenge’. I will sign my contract after the final etc etc. They have played right into Madrid’s hands who have quietly gone about their business.

The way Liverpool fans hounded out Rafa Benitez, I actually think they where worse than us. ‘Rafa’s at the wheel’ at Goodison, even his name was sung to high heaven at Anfield when he was sacked. I thought the level of disrespect was atrocious. They called him ‘’Agent Rafa”. Just imagine being Rafa Benitez and seeing that everywhere.

Then, this is the keep your opinions to yourself but, Carlo Anchelotti has left us to take the reigns at Madrid. Everybody hated it, but let’s have it right, it’s Madrid and he was probably promised all sorts at Everton and didn’t get it. Anyway, he takes over, then he beats Liverpool in the final. I mean you can’t really write that for us. They way they treated Rafa and now our old manager does them in Paris.

I have tried my best to keep off social media in regards to putting stuff up. But some of the stuff I have seen over the last few weeks in hilarious. If they would of quietly gone about it, it may of been different. However that final was won in their eyes. Not one person I spoke to said Madrid would win. Not one. They were just made up they didn’t get City.

I was in town for the first half and came home once I realised I was hammered and starting to feel grim. That train ride home was a good one when I saw the ball hit the net for Madrid. I have had all sorts since, even my father in law has rang me to offer me a fight because I text him saying ‘ouch, you were the better team on the night’. Funny thing is, he was first to text me after the derby match saying ‘I hope you go down and good luck in the Championship’.

Yet again, keep your opinions to yourself because one day they will bite you in the arse. COYB!

Agent Carlo — Mission completed.

I live locally, too, and there's flags all around but most of them are bandwagon, teleclapper, reds who have never been to a match in their lives.

I was in town, yesterday morning, and a bedecked RS actually asked me if Anfield was near the city centre. I kid you not.

Anyway, after a shit season the last 10 days have been great. I now hope it actually pisses down on their parade!

It's also sad that many fans travelling to this game had a raw deal and were treated very badly. Please remember that some were our relations and certainly friends and neighbours.

My son was in Paris (don't ask) and told me loads of RS had phoney tickets and were planning to bunk in as they'd done at Wembley.

Klopp was encouraging fans to go to Paris even if they didn't have a ticket! He should answer for his part in the ensuing problems at the stadium. The chaos was solely caused by their fans with fake tickets

It's remarkable there were no reported delays in the Real Madrid part of the ground. I wonder why?

Absolute joke result

Ancelotti should be pepper sprayed and tear gassed on arrival

Free flight from Oslo for all true supporters

Seriously though, wouldn't it be nice if Everton could actually win something. Ideally when we are all young enough to remember it!

Don@151 I understand your sentiments 100% mate, but sometimes we have just got to be very thankful for small mercies.

Rob@143, second paragraph - definitely wins this whole thread.

After initially thinking they would be to strong for Madrid, I then started getting a feeling that Liverpool would lose, because of fate.

Liverpool FC, not being prepared to play on the anniversary of Hillsborough, is something I understand and definitely respect, but having a victory parade on the anniversary of Heysel, is very insensitive imo, even if one close Liverpudlian, actually told me, I’m just trying to score cheap points. Wow

Jesus, you would never get near this new Fan Advisory Board with outrageous suggestions like that! 😂 Totally alien way of mindset. (I said 'mindset' – not 'trainset'!)

That's that out of the way.

Watching the reports this morning, the main focus of blame is on the Police, UEFA and the organisers. Yes they mention fans buying fake tickets and trying to climb the gates, but it's as far down the pecking order as Everton's listing on Match of the Day.

Repeat; fans with fake tickets and scaling fences. More fans trying to get in the ground than allocated places. They, more than any other club, should know better.

But let's deflect blame. On this day, 39 football supporters went to a football match and never came home.

Always outraged. Never embarrassed.

Has everybody forgotten Klopp telling the RS to go to Paris even if they don’t have tickets? He should be charged with inciting a riot, the arsehole.

I’ve no doubt it was a very badly organised event and lots of innocent RS were I’ll treated by the police. But let’s be honest about this, British away fans travelling on this scale are a nightmare, and the RS have so much form for causing mayhem (coaches, fountains, liver buildings, you know the rest) and bunking in that you don’t have to be an Evertonian to be able to guess some of the contributory factors last night.

Never to blame eh.

If forged tickets have been responsible for the hold up then it’s on Liverpudlians. If this was not the case then it’s on UEFA, especially because they don’t give out enough tickets to the genuine supporters.

Both clubs received 20,000 tickets, so if UEFA are not prepared to give more tickets to the fans (unless it’s through the black-market - I’m actually convinced this is why Liverpool “the black markets biggest payers” got such an easy draw - right through) then this game should only be played in the biggest stadiums in the world, imo.

As others have noted it is puzzling there is no coverage of Madrid fans turning up in their thousands with fake tickets or no tickets.

https://youtu.be/0PqBUDKYh9c

Just saying like!

I honestly think another ridiculous VAR decision cost Liverpool last night, because they might have been better going in at half time a goal down.

Kopite behaviour.

The police getting stuck in is a case of Kopite reputation preceeding them no sympathy for the miscreants at all.

Carlo Ancelotti Derby Record P4 W2 D2 L0
21/6/20 - Goodison Park D 0-0
17/10/20 - Goodison Park D 2-2
20/2/21 - Anfield W 2-0
28/5/22 - Paris W 1-0

Shame about the Paris police's unprovoked gassing of Kopites, especially as they have never, not ever, at any time done anything at all to cause problems at a European cup match. You'll never wait alone eh. I trust the Norwegian ambassador has lodged a formal complaint.

The ending soured everything and coloured our views, or at least it coloured mine.

A shame.

The scum with no tickets and no respect for those who died in previous disasters now have the tears of children to be ashamed of. But, of course, they feel no shame.

Listen to the UK media making endless excuses. Pathetic.

Uefa couldn't care less about supporters, only interested in money and power. Right now, I am sure they will be holding urgent meetings to save face, not find out what they did wrong.

French FA and police, just like Wembley, can't organise a major football match and so, shouldn't get them. If you have a strong enough outer cordon checking for valid tickets, all else should be simple.

Liverpool have a criminal element to their support but that's not unique. They should do more to stop ticketless fans travelling and stop excusing bad behaviour – some even justifying climbing over the fence!

And both clubs should get more tickets – at least 40% of capacity to each club but Uefa couldn't care less about supporters – just like the Premier League.

I'm sorry for the fans with genuine tickets who didn't get in. That's not right and let's not take pleasure in it or the 'bitter blue' tag sounds justified.

I'm sure there were many factors involved but the French Police are outrageous and I have first hand reports from RS friends which make it clear - and I trust them - that the Gendarmerie battered and gassed anything in their path.

They've been doing it since May 1968 so they've had practice.

To counter what you say, many ticketless fans travel to be part of the occasion. I've done it at Wembley, but I never attempted to enter the stadium and never would. I go and find a drinking hole to be amongst other like minded fans.

Why is it repeatedly them should be the question? Other clubs don't seem to have this drama despite the fact we all have ticketless fans travelling.

Given their hatred of their own country tho, guessing next weekend wouldn't have worked for them either.

No words.

They are the perennial victims, it’s in their DNA and is a prominent part of the entire RS culture. And as they make it so much a part of their story, it seems to attract new chapters all the time.

The ticketless fans travelling just to be in the host city when the game is on seems to be a relatively new thing. Nothing wrong with it, and I'm sure the local traders love it. But I can't remember fans doing that back in the 80s.

I think fans travelled without tickets then with the intention of getting one or getting in somehow. (A fiver to the turnstile operator got me into the 1985 FA Cup Final – waste of money!)

This element, going with the intention of getting in, by any means, seems to be large scale and more violent now, as it was at Wembley last year. It's going to affect everyone, as British clubs will all be tarred with the same brush once again.

They've done it once and we suffered more than most.

They've done this before (Athens).

There is one common denominator, yet the media rallies around to protect them.

Hypothetically, we'd have been lynched in the same scenario.

I travel without tickets but I won't try to get into the stadium.

There are many contributing factors, but they cannot and should not be excused from blame, which is what the momentum is trying to do.

They played their part, just as they did in 1985. Always them. No-one else seems to have an issue even though we all have travelling ticketless fans.

Also the local criminal gangs in Paris only appear to have attacked and robbed Liverpool fans?
Criminal gangs with principles hey? Don't rob the Spanish.
Amazing really.

You left one of Carlo's derby games out,

Liverpool Reserves 1 Everton 0, FA Cup game, one of the most embarrassing results in Everton's history.

I think we all know there are plenty of certain types. Decent people too.

Have to say those scenes of piling in over the walls are bad news in light of history, whatever the excuse. However we need to see if more info comes out, to see what may have led to or exacerbated this.

I don't know in this case, but I do know the whole safety/security thing is often unwieldy and obstructive, with the wrong balance of staff/action versus speed. Just got back online so haven't looked yet - play-off first!

I feel genuinely sorry for her if that's the case. But spare a thought for the poor RS squad, 80% of whom are chronic asthmatics and require special medication courtesy of Mr. Klopp. Could it be that the hint of gas adversely affected the team's performance by inflaming their asthma?

If so, then the result should be immediately overturned and the match replayed at Analfield where there are specialists in asthma treatment just in case.

Just kidding ;-)

Everton have a pitch invasion after the match, big media out pour, even Klopp jumping on it about the Everton pitch invasion, the very person who stormed the pitch during a Derby game, he got lost in the moment, well that’s ok then.

All the out pour that was blasted across the media, about Everton fans having a peaceful celebration on the pitch, not one single person was injured. Yet we got very bad press over it.

To hold the parade itself on the Hysel anniversary says it all, absolutely no shame at all.

On a final note you will hear no team will get closer to the quad without actually winning it, in the same instance, no other team will come even closer to winning nothing by the nearest of two penalty misses.

They never checked tickets away from the gate then, because there was actually 4 or 5 ticket checks once you got inside the stadium, and this made it very difficult to get in.

It sounds like the French Police have decided to close a lot of these turnstiles, making it a lot easier for them to Police everything, and it also sounds like they were very brutal, but they’ve already got every excuse they need because of those alleged counterfeit tickets.

The French hate us, and were obviously just waiting for any excuse, but now it just feels like the match got cancelled, because of the behavior of the French police, with nobody really talking about the game.

When did football change so that if you accidentally do something wrong on a football pitch, you now get away with it because it’s not what you meant to do? I’m obviously talking about the VAR decision not to allow Madrid a goal in the first half, which is something I couldn’t get my head around, simply because this has never been how football works to me?

I have French friends and they don't hate us. They do think we're bonkers for leaving the EU, though!

The CRS (riot police) are armed thugs in uniform and they hate everyone. I've been tear-gassed by them and can assure you it's not a pleasant experience.

There were checks before the turnstiles. The problem seemed to be that there were so many blag tickets that the police and staff decided to funnel the fans into one check area and this led to the huge delays.

Meanwhile, there didn't apear to be a fake ticket problem at the Real Madrid end and no reported incidents.

It wasn’t me, it was the other three, and suddenly the game is an afterthought.

If 90% of non RS fans on Twitter are saying “always the victim, never to blame” then it’s due to the RS reputation for moaning and deflecting.

I feel for the fans who were tear gassed and I feel for the fans who were kettled for hours outside the ground, but the blame lies with the generations of RS who have earned this terrible reputation, and with the likes of Klopp who encourage it.

10th League title.

6th FA Cup.

We finally win a League Cup.

It's coming.

The result is now history, and by the way their old boy media hype and the clueless media staff with no clue of football history, it’s become a travesty.

No, fair result, but more important let’s focus our energy on Everton, and take the unequivocal force of Evertonians to drive the club onto a better tomorrow.

It will take time, but the last few months of last season, proved the Everton 12 th Man, to be the driving force of the club.

Let’s hope the squad at last recognises and start being consistent and get some old fashioned fighting spirit and pride and belief in EFC.

Why do I pay my TV Licence? The BBC just took emotional based journalism to a new depth. The first 11 minutes on the half hour focussed on them and how badly treated the were.

Shambolic organisation. Aggressive Policing. Even the Mayor of Liverpool was in on the act. Why, Andy Burnham, did you go to Manchester? No mention of fans with fake tickets and those without trying to enter the stadium contributing to the situation other than a very political body swerve statement of "fans who didn't have the right tickets". Please. Unless you acknowledge your own behaviour and contribution, you'll just keep blaming everyone else and do the same again.

Repeat of Athens. It's always them and they are always defended. Guarantee the headlines would be very different if it was anyone else.

I have very close family members who are unholy, but as a collective fan base they absolutely make me cringe and my blood boil.

His words have clearly impacted this situation and he should be called out for it.

'Are Jurgen Klopp's lot a team of nearly men? Manchester City, Chelsea, Tottenham and now Real Madrid have worked Liverpool out. . . this great side is in danger of going down in history as underachievers after Champions League final defeat'

Three finals no goals in normal play. I wonder why, any suggestions.

My family knew his from the Garston Tenements.

Arrogant is how I would describe him.

Lester also had a wicked sense of humour and after one race riding for the owner Alan Ball, another favourite of mine and most on here,Alan rushed to get Lester opinion of his horse, which finished out of the first three, “ Will it make anything” Alan asked him eagerly “ Yes, glue” was Lester’s two word reply.

I think the racing world will be saddened by Lester’s demise, a wonderful sportsman and a great character.

How he gets away with it amazes me. He whinges, he intimidates, he moans at refs, he invades the pitch, but for some reason he's seen as some kind of "decent" fella?

He very clearly encouraged fans without tickets to go to Paris, and the excuse being used by the French police is that there were too many fans with fake tickets or no tickets and it caused them problems. But I haven't seen anyone in the media call this out.

Link

That stadium and the police that police it regularly hosts major international football matches and 6 nations fixtures without any problems.

There is a common denominator.

Earlier in the week there were big IT problems with Easyjet with many people finding holidays and (flights from Ireland to Liverpool) amongst the 300 or so cancellations.

Also last week major problems were reported across the health service in Greater Manchester.

With all this in mind I recalled that this Final was to have been played in St Petersburg. Could there have been a Russian cyber attack?

The UK is to the fore in arming Ukraine, whilst Spain are out of the picture. After all, our government would not like to admit such things in this propaganda war.

France’s interior minister has said he regrets the “disorganised welcome” Liverpool fans received at the Champions league final on Saturday but blamed counterfeit ticket sales on an “industrial scale” for chaotic scenes at the Stade de France.

“We deplore a lack of organisation in the way the English fans were received,” Gérald Darmanin told a press conference on Monday. But he said 30,000 to 40,000 Liverpool fans had turned up for the game either without tickets or with counterfeits.

As a Downing St spokesperson described the scenes on Saturday as “deeply upsetting and concerning” and urged a full investigation, Darmanin said the fact that Liverpool supporters had been issued with paper rather than digital tickets had enabled “massive, industrial-scale and organised fraud with fake tickets”.

About 70% of tickets presented by about 62,000 Liverpool fans were fake, the French interior minister said, and whereas 97% of Real Madrid fans had made it to their seats by the original 9pm kick-off time, only 50% of Liverpool supporters had reached their stands by then. Liverpool received an allocation of 19,618 tickets.

“Manifestly, this kind of incident only seems to happen with certain English clubs,” Darmanin said, noting that there had been difficulties at the Liverpool-Tottenham Champions League final in Madrid in 2019 and at matches at Wembley.

"Darmanin said the fact that Liverpool supporters had been issued with paper rather than digital tickets had enabled 'massive, industrial-scale and organised fraud with fake tickets' ".

Nice opportunism to bedevil the concept of physical tickets. How about we fix this with mandatory digital IDs, finger prints and iris scans to attend football matches, that would be great. Not to get everyone on digital IDs of course, simply to make things safer and "Better".

Guess modern technology can't provide equipment for rapidly checking the validity of tickets, like say, banknotes.

In theory, thousands of extra tourists descending on Paris is a good thing for Paris, if it doesn't go off. The day out is also not bad compensation for decent, loyal fans that couldn't get tickets. It's a well-trodden path for cup finals here.

I'd be loathe to start limiting people's movement. Reality needs to be considered though; no easy answer. It would help it we had access to accurate figures of how many had fake tickets, how many tried to bale over the wall with no tickets, and how many sat peacefully in bars and cafes away from the melee.

I agree it's probably not Klopp's place to promote it however.

It's quite clear from social media footage and eyewitness reports where the fault lies. The ineptitude of UEFA and the French authorities.

The establishment blaming fans. Where have we heard that before!

Seriously we are better than that.

Poor policing and organisation
A perception (misplaced or not) that English fans and Liverpool fans in particular are trouble when abroad based on previous incidents
The decision to issue paper tickets
Not enough tickets given to the clubs with so many reserved for corporate tickets
Thousands of ticketless fans congregating outside the ground encouraged by Klopp
Local youths trying to bunk in and stiring up trouble outside
Loads of people having blag tickets and trying to get in this causing backlogs

Any or all of these factors could have contributed to what happened.

Because I think it's fairly clear here what happened. There are hundreds of eye-witness accounts attesting to the dreadful organisation and heavy-handed policing.

I've no time for Liverpool Football Club but in this case I can't see they carry much blame and some of the snide comments in this thread are, as I said, distasteful.

Glad they got bummed in the actual game though.

There are a number of factors which together resulted in the outcome. It's like an accident investigation which invariably finds that a number of linked occurrences or situations combine to cause the accident.

The French authorities are undoubtedly at fault for their poor preparation, organisation, and their actions in dealing with "the problem". If what's been said, that there was ticket fraud on an "industrial scale" is true, then those trying to enter the ground with fake tickets have added, if not caused, the problem.

I can't help though comparing what went on at one end of the ground to what went on at the other. It would appear that the Real Madrid fans caused, and suffered, no problems whatsoever.

The question could be asked, "Why is that the case?"

Again it's fairly clear, they were treated differently. They were not corralled into a ridiculous small number of checkpoints to deal with the number of people entering the ground.

The ‘industrial scale' ticket fraud is only coming from the French authorities. Personally I take it with a massive pinch of salt. Otherwise there would've been tens of thousands refused entry and left outside the stadium. It didn't happen.

Whatever happened, ain't no way there was massive fraud among one set of fans and zero fraud among the others.

Liverpool were issued with circa 19k tickets. There were far more Liverpool fans than circa 19k around that stadium. Some Liverpool supporters have already said there were Liverpool supporters in the ground without seats blocking the view of those that had seats.

Yes, they were treated differently. Perhaps, just perhaps, they behaved differently.

Will, it has been suggested that the vast majority of Real Madrid fans did not have physical tickets, but digital ones.

Thanks, Brian.

I assumed it unlikely to differ, but maybe not. Would be good to get the confirmed truth on that - followed by a reason as to why. There are many assumptions that could be made of such a thing, from simple irregular operation, digital situation in both countries, to other more imaginative ideas.

However, it is clear that the French authorities must have read the British newspapers in the weeks prior to the final and believed that due to all of those pitch invasions and the reactions to them by the media and pundits alike, that the bad old days of violence and hooliganism had indeed returned to English football, unfortunately the innocents were once again punished for the bad behaviour of others.

In these days of vigilance in relation to possible terrorist attacks, you would think that UEFA, FA and the clubs both hosting and competing in Europe on a regular basis would be able to manage a relatively simple task of getting fans into an all-seater stadium, in an organised and civilised manner.

iI they can do it for pop-concerts and the likes why can't they do it for football fans?

I suspect that the root of much of this lies with money, either people on the inside trying to make a few quid at the fans' expense by forging or touting tickets. Or a variety of people unwilling to spend a proportionate amount on stewarding and other helpful assets that would alleviate many of the issues that arise with a large crowd of people intent on seeing their favourites.

I think you're absolutely right. Just look at their desperate efforts to shift blame. They are embarrassed by their failure and incapable of an honest admission, like most large organisations and authorities.

And for once, although it goes against our preferred narrative, (hesitating) the majority of Liverpool fans (fasten your seat belts) could justifiably claim (what am I saying) to be (help) the victims.

(Puts on tin helmet and dives behind sofa)

You just have to read first-hand accounts many by journalists all corroborating the chaos and disorganisation of the authorities.

And that is English, French and Spanish journalists. No-one with an axe to grind but just giving factual accounts many with supporting photographic evidence.

Sometimes you have to take your scarf off and accept the bleeding obvious.

Combine that with a bit of previous "Your reputation precedes you" thinking, it's another thing to add to the mix. Many factors at play here. Though as you allude... why? There is no excuse really, if someone with the reach is allowed to properly oversee proceedings.

There are countless examples of similar sporting events going off with no problems at all. Therefore, the problems can be identified if the will is there to do so. We'll see how that plays out.

Link

I'm not sure the club formally congratulating him would be the er, done thing. Independent sites might.

And I have seen evidence and heard first-hand reports of things of a not-so-innocent nature occurring, so drop the "scarf" comments.

We disagree obviously but I'm not making snide comments to you, so don't make them to me.

Wasn’t a snide comment, I’m suggesting if that had happened to Evertonians you would have a different point of view.

I’m saying regardless of the team involved the evidence is already pretty overwhelming the Liverpool fans were generally treated poorly made worse by the authorities trying to apportion blame on them.

I as said earlier, we’ve seen it before.

The reporting of it by the British media is different from the reporting of it by the French media, and the truth will, as always, require a proper and thorough investigation. Outside of such an investigation, most of the comment on causes has been and still is largely conjectural and biased.

Let's wait for a proper investigation. The current rhetoric from the media is, as usual, unhelpful.

Outside it was estimated there were 20,000 fans waiting to get in.

Do the maths.

I even understand it from a young lad's perspective but given the history of what's gone on with this club they should have let the genuine ticket holders only head to the ground. They just ignored past disasters by pumping up the numbers at the stadium. Klopp didn't help the cause.

I know people who got in without tickets and it pisses me off even though I fully understand how I was at that age. I went to all of our Wembley finals in the 80s and never failed to get in despite only once having a ticket. I had a ticket for Rotterdam but that was not needed as the Police just opened the big gates and everybody walked in. Who remembers this by the way ? It could have been dangerous.

Times and past events have changed things though and people should know better. For a start, English supporters are not very welcome by the general public of many cities around Europe. We are are not talking Rugby supporters who mix very well and sings songs together – we are talking about a sport that still has the ugly violent streak when supporters come together and with this in mind the police and authorities now simply look for excuses to be heavy-handed. It's actually embarrassing to see hordes of supporters pissed up in a beautiful foreign city. Maybe I'm being a bit jealous there but you get my point.

Maybe they need to set up a two-legged final until they come up with a better solution than to heap trouble on the likes of Paris etc.

Because the makers know that can sell them, aided and abetted by the joint decision to issue the rs with paper tickets not digital ones.
Because the buyers know that as it gets nearer to KO, the more people turn up, the more chance there is of waving a half decent copy and being waved through.

But it can happen with digital tickets too.

Now I don't know what the turnstiles even look like in Paris.
But I do know what they look like at the Gabba (42,000) and Lang Park, nee SunCorp (52,000)
It's done on a QR code thing, either printed out or on your phone.
They're supposed to scan them with, in the above cases, a hand held scanner.
It's much cheaper for Stadiums to have digital tickets on your phone than a fancy, near banknote quality 'paper' ticket.
The stadium / UEFA have to hold their hands up for that.

I had my phone held up in my hand and a QR thing on my screen, I got waved through at 10 mins to KO.
Trouble was, in the bright light I had the Gabba QR thing for The 1st day of the Ashes, not the SunCorp QR thing for The All Blacks.

Sometimes it's (inadvertently) just that easy

Both the rs hordes  And the forgers know it.
They play the percentages, that in a big rush 10mins or whatever before KO, the gate person may have 'eyes on' your QR code, but, in the interests of getting everybody in - won't actually scan it = result.

It also costs to have Underground Station type physical barriers.

Been said before - any problems at the Madrid end???
No??
How strange.

The French Police often seem to like nothing more than bashing a few heads...and its a bonus to them if they're English.
Then It could then be said if you take most of the rs associated factors out, the set up at the other end worked perfectly.

Blame on both sides.
Both sides have massive media machines to deflect the blame.

What will be the result of the inevitable enquiry?
The political Agenda down the track will govern that.

The rs will just about manage to slide out from under - as per usual

What do Madrid have? They have the Cup and tales to tell of French and English stupidity and Carlo's eyebrow.

Okay, the authorities should be called into question. The organisers should be called into question.

But despite that, the independent investigation that says it will look at the role of all parties concerned needs to also take into account the Grizzly Bear in the room. All parties involved.

No mention of that on the media or those who were there being interviewed.

They played their part. They contributed to the situation. But they live in denial and will never admit it.

Unlucky haha! Carl Ancelotti may have pulled off his greatest stroke as Everton manager last weekend!

And they ended up without the much-vaunted 'quadruple' which they/the media had been going on about for months.

If us staying up was out of this world amazing, them getting beat at the weekend and also losing the title was a nice extra.

I mean, the French police would not have started pepper spraying fans without good reason. I doubt very much the RS fans were all queuing up in an orderly manner as the kick-off time approached, so something must have forced the French police to take action?

Oh yeah, (hundreds or thousands, who knows) people with fake tickets then got all stroppy because those fake tickets didn't get them into the stadium, thus preventing those fans with genuine tickets from also entering the stadium.

We've seen videos on the BBC and SSN of fans scaling fences to gain entry into the stadium. There's a picture on Twitter going round of two sons boasting about bunking in with their dad. No doubt there are many more such like pictures etc, but all that scummy club, the BBC and SSN want is any action taken against Uefa and the French authorities.

Actually, thinking about it, it must be Uefa's fault, after all, they must have printed all these fake tickets and then give them all to the RS, as I've not heard of any fake tickets within the Real Madrid fans. Shame on you, Uefa!!

Finally, everyone is going on about how close they were to winning everything, but they were only two penalty shootouts from winning nothing… Shame on you, Kepa Arrizabalaga and Mason Mount.

And before anyone says it, yes, I wouldn't mind winning two trophies via penalty shootouts.

It just depends what you mean by ‘they’. Were the some fans without tickets? yes. Will some of those fans tried to bunk in? yes.

However the vast majority were decent match going fans despite their allegiance. Did the eight year old kid deserve to be pepper sprayed? Did fans with genuine tickets deserve not to get in? Did fans deserve to be kettled and made to wait for hours in a potentially dangerous situation?

The answer is pretty obvious and again I challenge anyone to want to blame fans to switch the situation and ask yourself if it was Evertonians would you have the same view?

It's being ignored that many (yes, not all or the majority) Liverpool fans contributed to the situation. Just as they did in Athens.

Call me bitter, call me paranoid, but I genuinely think it is a different headline if that's Everton or any other club for that matter.

Would Evertonians have done the same thing? We'll never know until we reach our next cup final.

Okay, I know back in the '80s we saw and read of blues bunking into Wembley and at Rotterdam, but don't forget, these were stadiums at the time that had large terracing behind each goal. You could go and stand anywhere without fear of being ejected because you were in someone's seat.

Where exactly were these RS fans going to sit in an all-seater stadium, knowing full well they were sitting in a seat on a fake ticket? Yes, we probably all do have some sympathy for fans with genuine tickets who didn't get in, or missed a large chunk of the game, but don't blame the authorities for that, blame those hundreds or thousands of fans with fake tickets. Blame those fans who turned up without any kind of ticket whatsoever, whose sole aim was to try and probably bunk in.

We saw something very similar at the European Championships final last summer when England played Italy. Fans getting into Wembley without a ticket. Uefa have taken action and forced England to play behind closed doors, as well as a hefty fine. Let's see Uefa take similar action against the RS, maybe even ban them from Europe for a couple of years.

Champions League Final: Harrowing accounts of post-match violence spark debate

In particular, it should be noted that the videos shown around Saint Denis in Paris, show gangs of men in their hundreds, terrorizing supporters. Criminals. With police unable or unwilling to prevent it.

Forget who the supporters were for a second and see it as it was, gangs intent on violence and mayhem, robbery and such. Men, not kids.

Prior to coming back to New Zealand, I lived in France, happened to find myself on a trip to Paris in the same area. It is one of the most run down, poor and scary places I never expected to see.

French police had no hope, no chance, but supporters were left to defend or run. I wouldn't bother with the police at the upcoming Olympics just bring in the military.

Local scals or gang members mugging and terrorising fans is a separate issue – albeit just as serious obviously. It's the "them – never us" attitude of LFC and our media protecting them to the hilt which is disgusting.

The anniversary of Heysel, 29 June – a case in point; what were they doing on that day this Sunday gone?!

If you haven't done so, watch the video, no supporters should be left in that. It's not two rival sets of supporters having a go or taunting each other into fights, this is co-ordinated gang attacks at a level unheard of.

The Police are genuinely scared of them for fear of the backlash and maybe that's what made them so edgy.

It would have been terrifying for those supporters but, once again, the added numbers of them only added to the chaos in and around the ground. It makes you wonder why they would build such a lovely stadium in such a poor area.

I went to a football match in Rio at the Maracana many years ago between Flamengo and an Argentinian team. It was a night game and what I saw that night did shock me and sounds similar to the events in Paris.

There were gangs in hundreds just ambushing anybody who was wearing decent clothes and any jewellery etc and completely stripping them down to just the pants they had on. These were local gangs from the favelas in Rio and the Police I saw in pairs were just too scared to get involved so just left them to it.

I got out of there sharpish knowing my face stood out but I would never wear or carry anything of value in that city because everyone gets mugged at some stage in their lives there.

As far as I'm concerned, any European final should now be a two-legged affair so we never have to witness another hooligan element pissed up and causing havoc in some of the world's most beautiful cities. I may just be saying that because we are so far away from being in a European final but it's always going to happen and should the locals really have to suffer this just for bars cafes and restaurants to make a bit of extra cash?

In a preseason friendly, in the summer of 2002 v Anderlecht away, it was urban warfare before and after the game, and the police went to town with water cannons and tear gas and the baton. One of the longest days.

But let's focus on Everton, and let's hope the transfer window and preseason coaching and actually working freely for a couple of months can get Everton back in tune for a consistent season of good football, avoiding the dirge of last season.

UTFT!

I went to Rotterdam and had a ticket. When the 6 of us got back (to London where we lived then), we all slept for about 16 hours, wrecked.

A few days later, it was the FA Cup Final at Wembley. None of us had tickets and we had spent our money in Holland. Three went anyway and all paid a fiver to the turnstile man and were in. The rest of us didn't want to take a chance on missing the game.

The difference between going away from home in England and overseas is obvious. You stand out like a sore thumb. The local scalls see you as fair game and you will get "taxed" if you are not mob-handed.

Football was high-jacked by the middle classes after "Fever Pitch" and the all- seater stadiums and increased prices. Sky just added to the costs of everything.

The retired, the comfortably off, the family groups are now as used to flying out to a nice European game, staying in a hotel, and having a nice meal in a restaurant. Just like when you go to the theatre.

Now call me old-fashioned, but I would never have taken a kid, or a child with a disability or my wife to any rough place – especially abroad. When you don't speak the language, don't know the area, and are at the wrong end of heavy-handed police or local gangs, then you should give it a swerve.

The rats in Saint Denis were taking what they could, just like the little fuckers around Goodison "looking after" cars on matchday. I once came across a two Evertonians from Burnley who had been robbed on Scottie Road, money and even their jackets.

The bourgeois fans got a bit of a shock. I heard former Tory Minister, Michael Howard, moaning how him and his wife got kettled. Wouldn't have seen that nob on the street in '85!

I think back at the years of not wearing colours, particularly when living in London and blending in with locals on the tube home. Then back to the coach and home.

Basically, romping around in football kits in some faraway shit-hole is not a good idea. Just watch it on the telly.

Football can unify people. That's the beauty of the game. But I do get your point.

My Grandfather was from Belfast and adopted Everton when he relocated to Speke. My Dad was from Garston and was the biggest Blue I knew. I was born into football and born into Everton. I never knew different.

But I too get frustrated by so-called lifelong modern supporters, especially down here in London. Especially when they are wearing Liverpool and Manchester United shirts. I don't get the connection. And they've really only been doing it since 1993. Corporate supporters and I can wipe the floor with them as I often do.

For me, Everton and football was and always has been a privileged birthright. Not something I took to because it became trendy to do so.

I totally agree, stand out in a foreign land and you are a target, but I can't say I have seen it on this scale. I have seen Millwall and West Ham fans attacking other supporters but that was because they wore another team's colours.

This was done to rob and injure, the attackers were local, not supporters... I guess what I am trying to say is both sets of supporters were targeted by gangs of youths and men because they had money and that made them targets; if no money, then done to harm.

I got told a story by a great fellow Blue many years ago, when I was an apprentice. He and his brother were in the Merchant Navy and they stopped in New York one time on a day when Rocky Marciano was fighting. The captain of the ship knew the Mayor of New York and he arranged tickets for a few of them to see the fight.

Anyway, Marciano won as he always did with lacerations all over his face but eventually wore his opponent down and knocked him out. All the lads went on the ale into the early hours in downtown New York but, on their way back to the ship, they all well and truly got beaten and robbed by various gangs.

I've also heard the opposite when American sailors got done in Liverpool and of course lots of other cities around the world.

The UK media have done their best to blame everyone but the RS and now we're being told the stadium was 'built in the wrong place'.
This is code for St. Denis is a working class area with a large ethnic population. I.e. 'not like us'.

My son went over for the week and got the bus to the game. After the match the buses were off so he had a 30 min walk back to were he was staying and didn't have any problems.

Where was he staying for the week? St. Denis!

We're being gaslighted.

"Heysel is never, ever mentioned" | Mark Lawrenson recalls night of the 1985 stadium disaster | OTB

When I was a teenager in Italy on vacation I bought a Lazio shirt. About a week later it was in the news how Lazio ultras were Nazis and Di Canio later gave them a Nazi salute.

Needless to say, the following summer,r on our family trip to Italy, I bought a Roma shirt. Montella on the back — still have it, in fact.

Anyway I've developed a certain affinity to the club and yes, spot-on – they love Mourinho for giving them a trophy. Going back to Grobelaar's knobly knees routine, they've had lots of disappointments and false dawns.

So yes I'd love to see Everton winning the European Cup Final we should have won in 1986. But, in the meantime, I'd love to be in Europe in anything.

PSV, Feyenoord, Sparta Prague, Marseille, Hadjuk Split, Roma. Some big names. Who I'm sure didn't stick their noses in the air at it. So I don't see why we would. And, although not a major force, Rapid Wein. Remember them?

Europe's 3rd rated competition in 1985 gave us one of the greatest nights of our lives and one the best ever at Goodison prior to that. It put Alex Ferguson on the map.

European snobbery and dismissal seems to have been promoted by the likes of Allardyce who viewed it as an inconvenience to finishing 16th. I'm not picking on him in particuar because of my previous, but it seemed as though that era of predominantly British managers backed by pundits took and installed that view on a generation that has dismissed the excitement of playing in Europe and winning trophies.
Apparently only the elite should focus on Europe seems to be the attitude. Well done to Chelsea and Man City for ignoring that attitude back in the now day. Look at them now.

Not I. I'll take it every day because you've either won something or finished high enough in the league and have the building blocks for better things and to attract better players. Winning mentality, not survival and playing down expectation.

On the Lazio - Roma thing. We lived in Latina for 2 years (stationed nearby). It's about 45 minutes south of Rome.

Originally we thought Lazio because of the blue (albeit sky blue), but collectively their fans are a nasty bunch, particulay with what you allude to. Always prefered Roma. My son went to watch them last month.

Put the masses down and keep them in their place. I told you I was jet-lagged but trying to stay up or I'd have been awake at 2am like yesterday.

But in terms of prestige the Cup-Winners Cup trumped it. Maybe because the domestic cup competitions hadn't become as devalued as they are nowadays. I mean... just look who won it this year!