Jordan Pickford plays despite being troubled by a shoulder complaint of late
Manchester United 1 - 1 Everton
Everton travel to Old Trafford to face Manchester United with three key players still sidelined.
Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Coleman are injured or unfit, while Delph, Iwobi and Gomes are also out of contention. Gordon starts with Charlie Whitaker making his first Premier League visit to the subs bench.
For Man Utd, Shaw and Wan-Bissaka are both back but Ronaldo and Sancho are rested after their midweek exertions in the Champions League.
Everton kicked off in all-blue and hoofed the ball long for a Man Utd goal kick. They eventually won the ball back but could not keep it long enough under the high press. The home side continued to dominate and pin Everton back, despite long clearances to nowhere.
Wan-Bissaka eventually created a chance for the Red Devils at the far post but Martial jumped all wrong and had to head well wide. Godfrey did well to block Shaw's cross for a corner but Greenwood's low cross was thankfully not turned in.
When Everton did have the ball, they found it difficult to get forward until Digne played a perfect ball through to Rondon in space with a brilliant opportunity but the lumbering giant took an age to command the ball and the shot was blocked behind.
Rondon was fouled by Wan-Bissake, setting up a free-kick that Digne curled in very well but it was hooked clear by Martial. Gray almost laid on a chance but put it behind Rondon. Shaw gave Digne another set-piece, this one Keane perhaps should have scored with a glancing header that went wide.
After that brief respite, Man Utd won a corner, but Everton broke in a good counter that fizzled out with Gordon's poor attempted cross. Doucouré was playing very deep and seemed reluctant to move the team forward. Cavani had a free header that drew a tremendous save by Pickford.
Another Man Utd corner was laboriously half-cleared. Finally, Doucouré did break up the right with Townsend but a nice ball in to Rondon was fired at a defender. At the other end, Fgreenwood put a oft shot in on Pickford
McTominay whipped out Gordon then Digne was fouled and McTominay tried to make him get up, leading to major handbags and finally with no sanction of McTominay, of course from Michael Oliver. At least it showed that Everton were getting under their skin and they were'There followed an excellent Everton move and a brilliant Gordon cross that deserved to be converted but wasn't by Townsend after Rondon, who had the better chance, missed it completely.
Gray did well to got some space and time to shoot but it was a low shot that proved easy meat for De Gea to save. Gordon was fouled and Oliver finally showed Greenwood the yellow card.
Another great move down the right and crossed in to Doucoure who met it brilliantly first time but a defender had anticipated his strike and blocked it. Man Utd attacked again but the Everton defence had grown into the game and repelled them.
Everton won another free-kick in midfield, Gray curling it in perfectly for Mina but he got underneath it rather than putting in a more firmly directed header. Everton were momentarily more open at the back and Godfrey needed to execute a very well-timed tackle to avert the danger.
But it suddenly all fell apart as the ball came through to Martial in far too much space, Godfrey leaving acres of space for him, then getting far too close to Mina, as Martial lashed home his shot deflected over Pickford from wide left, a poor poor goal for Everton to give up.
Martial teed up another shot but this was a soft one for Pickford. A pity given the wealth of chances Everton had squandered to give up such an annoying goal.
The home side restarted after the break, Allan tried to release Gray from deep in defence but his pass was wayward. Gordon broke way but missed his chance to pass forward, and Everton backed up, Godfrey conceding the corner. Greenwood's shot was again easy for Pickford.
Gordon played a nice hopeful ball expertly down the line for Rondon to amble after... what a complete waste of space. When the ball came to Rondon in a break out from defence, he just gave it away.
Townsedn played a lovely ball in for Rondon, who ran away from it while the defender ran toward it. Astounding. Crucially, Ronaldo and Sanacho then came on. WOuld the gapping hole at right-back be further exploited?
SOme brilliant passing down the left (Gordon) set up Gray for a great run in but he just lost steam and couldn't pull the trigger. A Man Utd corner went right everyone, Keane had to stop Greenwood. Allan was then fouled by Fernandes.
A sweeping Man Utd attack was somehow foiled. Doucoure then tried to battle his way through on his own but the half-chances of the first period were not being repeated.
Another Man Utd corner but Everton broke at pace, Gray tenmaciously retaining the ball before finding Doucouré who fed the perfect ball in and Andros Townsend finished beautifully. "Wonderful goal for Everton, outstanding!" — Martin Keown.
The game now had a new feeling about it — not the one written in the script, Everton showing some fine spirit and determination. Fred was pulled for Pogba, meanwhile. Then the match-winning move by Benitez was to pull the effervescent Gordon for the mundane journeyman in Tom Davies.
Man Utd were trying harder and harder to get back in front as the tension in the game stepped up a few notches. Davies produced a fine forward pass for Gray who this time was very well marked. At the other end, Sancho fed Ronaldo near post but his shot flew across Pickford's goal.
Doucouré was booked for a foul on Fernandes, then Greenwood tried but failed to play in Ronaldo. Gray tried to fight for a ball at the other end, it had an end-to-end feel as to who would get the winner. Fernandes fired a low cross that evaded everyone, and then more stern Everton defence was needed.
Everton tried to create more attacks but Davies's touch was off. At the other end, Pogba curled one over the angle after Sancho easily beat Godfrey. Pogba then had a free header from a corner that went wide.
Davies did well to intercept and Doucouré won a corner, and from it, Davies in space fed Mina who scored but looked offside and it was deemed to be so.
Into the final minutes of the game and Man Utd attacked trying to set up Ronaldo but Everton defended resolutely. Could they build another break? On came Lewis Dobbin, far too late for a short cameo, and replacing Gray rather than the lumpen Rondon.
A late free-kick for a foul on Snacho but Ronaldo had strayed offside. Everton kept trying to push forward but without much effect and that was it. A game they should have won on chances created, Everton have to accept a draw.
Kick-off: 12:30 BST, Saturday 2 October 2021
Manchester United: De Gea, Wan Bissaka, Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred (68' Pogba), Greenwood [Y:35'], Fernandes, Martial (57' Sancho), Cavani (56' Ronaldo).
Subs: Bailly, Lingard,Henderson, Alex Telles, Matic, van de Beek.
Everton:Pickford, Godfrey, Keane, Mina, Digne, Doucoure [Y:76'], Allan, Townsend, Gray (90+3' Dobbin), Gordon (72' Davies), Rondon.
Subs: Begovic, Lonergan, Kenny, Holgate, Gbamin, Branthwaite, Whitaker, .
Referee: Michael Oliver
VAR: Stuart Atwell
Reader Comments (438)
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1 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:38:42
2 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:40:09
3 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:47:45
I'm assuming a typo for Kenny.
No CR7, Pogba or Sancho in the starting line-up for United. A pairing of Fred and Tominay will make it a hard graft for our midfield.
Good time to get your first PL goal, Anthony Gordon.
4 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:49:20
5 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:49:23
Godfrey Keane Mina Digne
Gray Townsend Gordon
6 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:52:36
Allan in front of the defencece so effectively a 4-1-4-1.
7 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:55:23
8 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:56:29
9 Posted 02/10/2021 at 11:59:16
Whats going on at Finch Farm???
10 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:00:19
Reporter, BBC Radio Merseyside Sport
"Everton undoubtedly face their toughest outing of the season so far at Old Trafford and the progress Rafa Benitez has made will be put to the test. Three points over Southampton, Brighton, Burnley and Norwich are all worthy, but in truth these are the games Everton supporters will want to win as a minimum."
Three points over Southampton, Brighton, Burnley and Norwich are all worthy, but in truth these are the games Everton supporters will want to win as a minimum."Win as a minimum? What is he on about? If we win perhaps we should get 6 points instead of 3?
With the injuries that we have, I'll take a draw any day of the week. With a fully fit squad? I'd hope to do a Villa on them.
11 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:01:05
12 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:01:27
Phil, Yes, great to see Dobbin and Whitaker on the bench, fully deserved. The other young lads of a similar age will be looking on with pride and a bit of envy. Its good for them to see that the pathway is there if they are good enough and put the effort in.
13 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:05:08
They havent been firing on all cylinders but in my opinion they've the best squad in the league.. and our talent is missing and in its place we have (sigh) Rondon..
14 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:06:38
15 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:08:25
16 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:20:52
17 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:26:32
18 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:29:10
Also, Our front four midfield/attacking players in today's team cost a combined £1.7 m.
Hopefully we are in a new era of spending more wisely.
19 Posted 02/10/2021 at 12:55:50
20 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:16:19
21 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:18:50
22 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:19:33
Woke up and decent display after that. Two decent chances for Rondon which he fluffed. I honestly don't see any talent there whatsoever.. never did.
Godfrey badly out of position for the goal.
Still in this. Gordon playing well.
23 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:20:59
24 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:21:32
Utd have an incredible squad but will win nothing under Ole.
25 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:23:29
Disappointing, but we can get something out of this.
26 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:29:35
After weathering a difficult opening 10 minutes I honestly thought we were the better team for the bulk of that half.
Disciplined. Kept shape well. Broke in numbers on the counter. Nobody playing badly.
I liked the McTominay handbags and how the Blues stood up to them in the mini-brawl. Shows good team spirit.
Ironic that the goal came from the left flank as they had more joy attacking down the right. Not for the first time in a Blue shirt, a question mark for me against Ben Godfrey in tucking in too much and giving Martial too much room to attack the ball. Even then it was probably a deflection that helped take it beyond Jordan.
Doucoure gets better and better. Gray is a lovely footballer to watch. The ease and grace he runs with the ball at pace, taking him clear of defenders, is a delight to behold.
Anthony Gordon growing into the game. Rondon's done well in his hold up and lay off play.
More challenging now to come from behind, but personally I'm far from disheartened by what I've seen given the circumstances.
27 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:32:43
I feel that Gordon seems to have the legs of their full back and if he is told to take him on and get the ball into the box it might also create more space elsewhere but, again, we have to have someone to target with crosses.
28 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:48:38
CR7 and Sancho.
Different worlds, eh?
29 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:55:50
30 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:57:31
31 Posted 02/10/2021 at 13:59:37
From their corner, from back to front.
Our goal of the season and we've scored some beauts already.
32 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:16:49
33 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:25:17
34 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:25:45
35 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:26:28
But instead, we'll have all the bleaters coming on saying "You can't expect to beat Manchester United."
Well you know what? Fuck off!
36 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:27:25
Anyway superb performance. Arise Sir Rafa of Goodison. He's the manager we've been waiting for!
37 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:27:28
38 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:28:06
39 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:28:54
We could - and perhaps even should - have won that.
That's a goal if the ball that falls to Tom Davies in that position is with Townsend or Gray. Shoot and score and the question of offside for Yerry doesn't enter into the equation.
Against a lot of adversity, a lot of good stuff is happening this season.
40 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:31:17
All players gave their all, and what a great goal and some superb counter-attacking play.
Great character, promise and hope and do that at this place in any year is no mean feat. Everton won the right to play and won most of their individual duels.
Like some days of old, and well done the whole squad and the Evertonians at the match.
A great point and tbh, disappointed, Everton didn't win.
Let's get the players fit over the break and ready for a 6-pointer with West Ham.
42 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:31:47
43 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:33:32
Considering that Godfrey is still slightly struggling and Rondon is yet to reach real match fitness, we did incredibly well to match United, and probably just about had the better chances. Gordon had his best game yet for the first team, and worked really hard defensively – which was vital.
More credit to Rafa – he said he wanted to find ways to win every single game and, but for a slightly over-eager run from Yerry Mina, he would have done today.
44 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:33:45
Thought we were brilliant and with an effective striker could have won it (rather than ‘should').
Well done the boys, Rafa and the fans.
45 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:33:57
You have to admire the piss take celebration.
I have been inspired.
46 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:34:33
Doucouré, Allan, Gray and Townsend all brilliant and the centre-halves were rock solid. Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison play and we win that.
If that is what Benitez can do with a weakened team, then we are in good hands.
47 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:34:53
This was a great performance, and one I wasn't sure we were capable of. After the opener, I was worried we'd crumble. But an excellent performance followed. Doucoure for me was the best player on the pitch, totally dominant.
Townsend on his way to have his best ever season, and Gray is just fantastic. There is more to come from this side.
Huge well done to Gordon who lay down a marker and has shown he can be a top Premier League player.
Godfrey looked much improved. And the whole back 4 was solid.
Benitez is doing a very good job with very limited resources. Just look at the respective benches. Well done.
48 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:35:30
Oh Tom, why didn't you just walk up and hit it?
49 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:35:52
50 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:35:54
Oh Tom, why didn't you just walk up and hit it?
51 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:36:35
52 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:37:12
53 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:38:54
54 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:39:00
Quite why Big Yerry (who could see everything and was completely unmarked) strayed offside is beyond me.
We had other big chances too. Good luck picking a MotM out of that. I thought we had at least six candidates.
One that got away.
55 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:39:10
Can't please all the people, all the time, eh Michael?
56 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:41:41
Tom Davies should have sewn it up but I tend to think that at some stage, probably after that famed City goal, he has been told that rather than try the move that marks the best that he should consider what would happen if it went wrong but today just a matter of inches of which even Mina should have been aware.
Still, a point away to a side you would expect to be somewhere near the top is quite acceptable.
Still don't understand Rondon being on the park as long as he was.
57 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:42:44
58 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:42:54
59 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:43:09
60 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:43:28
If only Davies had shot instead of passing.
Doucouré and Gray absolutely outstanding again today!
61 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:43:36
I thought we'd get slaughtered today. That was a game that I actually enjoyed and I thought we were the better team. I couldn't fault any player. Rondon wasn't the most mobile but he did a job.
Wish Tom Davies would have shot but I knew Mina was offside. Great point, nevertheless.
Well done, Everton!
62 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:43:38
63 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:48:15
Im not enjoying watching Rondón. He looked tired from start to finish and totally off the pace. Will be a huge lift getting Calvert-Lewin back. Would prefer to see Dobbin get a chance.
64 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:48:49
65 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:49:01
66 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:49:23
67 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:49:39
I was opposed to Benitez being appointed, not because he isn't a good manager – he is and always has been – but I feared fan reaction when we hit a bad run of results. Given our easy start, I feared that might have been terminal had it happened right at the start. Instead, Benitez has some well-deserved credit in the bank to draw on.
Whatever else, and regardless of his past history, he is way, way better as a manager than some we have had to endure in the last 5 or so years. Granted that is a low bar...
68 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:50:23
69 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:52:44
70 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:54:05
71 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:56:31
72 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:57:34
73 Posted 02/10/2021 at 14:58:48
74 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:00:29
Checked in at one nil down and sidled off immediately, knowing we would lose by 2 or 3 because that's what the Everton theme is.
Mr Benitez appears to be doing something rather extraordinary here. Well done all concerned.
75 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:00:41
76 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:01:00
77 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:03:41
78 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:03:56
Great performance today and shame not to win it. I was a bit miffed with Davies but the offside was marginal and scoring from his angle is not easy, especially for a player unused to such positions. If anything the blame could be for Mina who should have stayed on.
But credit to Rafa and the team. A tenacity, resilience and work ethic we've not seen since Moyes. And not a drab watch either which is what I had prophesied.
A great start to the season and with Calvert-Lewin, Richarlsion, Coleman etc returning hopefully after the break it's an excellent platform from which to do something exciting this season.
79 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:04:23
80 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:05:58
So, still think we need to face a ‘Big 4' side to jugde the team, eh...?
Nice weekend, Blues!
81 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:08:44
'Tom should have shot himself.'
82 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:09:38
Tom came on and played very sensibly, low confidence explains his pass but he really should have noticed Mina straying ahead of him.
When they made their changes, I think they actually became less threatening. Ole, got it wrong trying to keep his Galacticos happy.
I could see Calvert-Lewin back in our team (for Rondon) but I wouldn't put Richarlison back in ahead of Townsend, Gray or Gordon on that showing!
83 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:11:07
84 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:12:56
85 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:13:58
I agree that what players do out on the pitch is paramount, but it's also good to get a glimpse into how a player speaks and thinks – which I think some other TWs might also like to see, one man's meat is another man's poison and all of that.
86 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:14:48
87 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:14:03
We played well, deserved to earn a draw but we could have won in the end. Nevertheless, a good start to the season continues and I am really satisfied with Benitez.
Before the season started, I wasn`t very convinced by the Spaniard but, as the time passes, he shows that he is still an excellent manager.
Also, Gray and Townsend play very good, I thought that they were going to be substitutes who could contribute a little bit to the team but they prove to be excellent footballers.
We continue to play some fine football and to earn points, I hope we continue this way.
88 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:15:53
Man Utd at home without three of our best players, but we should have won? Some people are never satisfied.
Could have won if Davies had shot instead of passing. That long since he scored I doubt he would shoot if his life depended on it. Just lacked the confidence to and probably figured if he missed he would get slagged off for not passing. Damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
89 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:16:28
Really its 2 points dropped.
Had our late chance fell to an attack minded player no way that ball would have been passed
Regardless where Mina was he should never have been passed too
Tom will have nightmares about not shooting!
90 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:17:35
Not many times have we been to Old Trafford and come away with Michael writing the above headline. To scrap it out with one of the Slimy Six at their own ground and come away a point; and feeling disappointed!!! That's a long, long time ago. Brilliant effort from all the players who played today. Great management for instilling a Never Say Die attitude and a team ethic.
For such a depleted squad, Rafa Beitez is getting so much out of what he has to play with, he's making us a team not many will relish playing.
91 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:18:13
92 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:20:14
We've wanted a team with heart for so long. This team played and gave it their all until their last breath.
So happy with this performance and "result". A point at Old Trafford while injury riddled is great.
Last word - Tom Davies played the correct ball. He's not known for his shooting power or prowess. The pass was the correct decision, a hair's breath offside. Tom shoots, he doesn't score. The assumption and thinking that he would have netted is off the mark.
93 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:21:20
All through the team it was 100% effort, you cant ask for more.
I thought Doucoure, Townsend, Grey, Allan were outstanding, with all the other players all good and at it.
I confess I thought we would get beaten today.
94 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:23:04
Scroll, scroll, scroll. Now I know everything that happened, even know what parts to jump to when I turn on the TV.
And I already have my first laugh of the day... at the obligatory negative headline on this article.
Now to stick the eyes open and find the coffeepot and the remote. COYB.
95 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:25:35
I think Townsend is a coaches dream as he follows orders. At Palace Roy set up ultra defensively and relied on a bit of magic from Zaha. He wanted Townsend to put in a defensive shift which he did and consequently his stats suffered. Rafa is telling him to attack and hes doing just that. And yeah Graham Stuart is a good comparison. Both good, both have the odd bit of magic but hard work and positivity drive them.
96 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:28:27
Hahaha that made me chuckle
97 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:33:08
98 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:33:44
99 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:33:49
100 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:37:25
But credit has to go to the back 5, all stood up defensively to a man. The tube who was blaming Pickford for the goal on the forum must be new to football.
Mina should never have got himself into an offside position but Tom should have made that decision moot by taking the shot on himself. He did look like a midfielder whos scored 1 goal in his last 101 PL games.
But overall great performance, decent result and hopefully our front 2 are back next time out.
101 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:38:21
After me moaning about how we would fold following the first goal.
Wanted to burn my own house down when we signed the Spaniard and he signed the Palace reject.
Shows what I know.
102 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:40:08
Players are now keeping their positions not chasing lost balls and starting to win the 50/50 tackles. There are still a number of mistakes but they are starting to get less and that is down to coaching, and the players getting more confident in the style and tactics from the manager.
One of my previous comments was that with are injuries it would be a backs to the wall struggle but I believed we had the team to get 1 point but 3 would be nice. Some players may have made a mistake but overall as a team effort this was first class, and kudos should be given to Benitez and his staff.
103 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:43:14
104 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:43:41
The correct ball was clearly to shoot.
How can you argue that the correct ball was to pass to a player who was substantially offside?
105 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:45:10
106 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:45:58
I cant remember being so happy about a performance and result that we didnt win, it will keep me happy for quite a while.
107 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:47:21
108 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:47:23
109 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:47:57
You're wrong; it was a perfect angle for the keeper, nice and narrow he could easily block the shot; the only issue was Mina straying offside. Tom did exactly the right thing.
And yes, I played football at a very high level.
110 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:51:20
He wasn't clearly offside. That's crazy. He was barely offside and I don't blame Tom for playing that ball at all. He doesn't have a good shot, and Mina was through for a tap in. Mina, not being an attacker, didn't know to hold his run.
But Anthony you do make a good point! I didn't touch a soccer ball until I was 40 years old! So, no, I've never really played the game other than for my seven a side team: Grand Ol Team. 😜
If it was any other player I'd say shoot. Technically it is the correct option to shoot in that position. No argument. I just think, as it was Davies, and knowing his shooting limitations and seeing Mina through with a much better position at the net with their keeper out of position to make a save, it was the correct ball for Tom Davies to play.
There you have it.
111 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:51:32
If he shoots and De Gea saves, all we would hear would be "Mina was in acres of space, why didn't he pass".
Good performance today, unlucky not to grab all 3 points. I'm liking the look of Everton this season.
112 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:53:40
Shooting is kicking the ball "hard". He kicks the ball for a living... Fuck this "He's not used to shooting" etc.
That's my simplified take on it. Great result and a great performance.
113 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:54:37
If Tom does shoot, and it does NOT go in (HIGHLY likely), can you just imagine the shit that would be slung at Davies???
“What the fuck is he doing, Mina was wide open!”
114 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:00:16
The only shot to be had was back post. The ball was on Toms right foot. Thats a tough shot and he doesnt have time to put it on his left and curl it to the back, left post.
I played hockey - the concept is exactly the same!!! You cant move a puck to your backhand (read weaker foot) to take the shot you should. And you have a man wide open, square to the net for a tap in.
Its is 100% the right play, with everything Ive pointed out, to pass that ball.
115 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:01:27
I dont agree with you but you hit the nail squarely on the head. Tom took the option because he didnt have the confidence to do what you would expect any decent player to do. Take it out of his feet and put it past the keeper, he was after all in three yards of space.
Quite clearly he took the wrong option because he passed to an offside teammate. Now if Mina is in an onside position its a different conversation.
And as for the right foot far post theory did you not see Andross goal?
116 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:02:23
Tom had to shoot and should know the offside rule by now. Lack of confidece in his own ability right there. He knows it too so he should learn from that.
Excellent team performance. The 2 pairings at the back and in the middle along with the pace of Gray, if we keep them fit we will give anyone a game. Godfrey looks much fitter too.
Perhaps a good time for an international break because if we had DCL up top we'd have won.
117 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:04:25
Oh yes, Barry, I think I remember you.
You were the backup keeper for Marine Reserves?
118 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:05:21
Even if you argue that he shouldnt have shot as for some strange reason you believe that a Premeir League footballer with over 150 professional games under his belt doesnt have the ability to be able to hit the target when clean through on goal,, surely you can see that he at least should have taken it forward another yard or two to get ahead of Mina before passing it as he had all the time in the world?
I actually thought he did alright when he came on by the way and prove to be a useful member of the squad under Rafa this season but we can still criticise players for making poor decisions and Tom made a poor one today.
119 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:06:19
120 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:07:33
A special word for Gordon. I though he was nervous at the beginning and his demeanour does not suggest someone with a lot of determination on his face. But when he did get the ball, he caused a lot of problems down their right side and mostly kept Wan-Bissaka quiet. He also put in a great tackle on Fernandes I think towards the end. All in all, very pleasing performance by Anthony. Hopefully he gets a few more opportunities this season.
Before the match, I said that I hoped we wouldnt embarrass ourselves. Well, we certainly didnt. In fact, made me very, very proud. What can Rafa do when he has his best XI plus some squad strengthening in the winter window?
121 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:07:45
Mina was at fault for straying offside but that doesn't alter the fact that the pass was played to an offside player. How can that possibly be the right decision even if you can understand why he made it?
122 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:08:14
123 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:08:56
124 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:11:31
Now for 'the one that got away'... It's getting frustrating reading - there's those for whom Tom Davies can do no good! If he scored six, some would want to sell him.
Look, he's not a striker. There was a player who couldn't miss, who really should have stayed onside. He slid the ball across to him – imagine if he'd shot and missed (and he was being closed down by their keeper, let's remember).
How come no-one is crediting him for just getting into that position in the first place – where it wasn't really his place to be? There seems to be far more criticism of Tom than of Mina, who's the one who actually screwed it up. Give the guy a break!
125 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:13:36
I won't be losing any sleep crying over spilt milk. Big Yerry had a really good game and Tom let nobody down when he has to come on in very difficult circumstances.
There is no earthly way we would have had both a defensive midfielder and a centre-half deep into opposition territory looking for a late winner, last season.
Frustrating not to win. but pleasing to see us trying to win difficult games... It's been a while.
126 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:14:33
127 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:15:50
128 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:17:07
129 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:17:11
I think his penalty (saved) versus QPR has undoubtedly reduced his confidence in front of goal.
He has to make the keeper make a save. That is the difference in the two teams, a top quality midfielder will either score or work the keeper.
Mina is clearly daft as a brush – he surely knew he was offside, yet still did that silly dance!
If Tom had scored, his confidence would now be sky-high and he would be busting a gut to do it all again. Small margins...
130 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:17:36
131 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:19:33
132 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:21:30
Great spirit in the team, I was worried coming into the match but we really should have won it!
133 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:21:54
134 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:25:12
Rafa has become a massive difference. No pandering to anyone. The respect from the players is there for all to see. I made this point before when Seamus spoke highly of Graham Potter after a draw at Brighton. He said they were well-coached. I took it as a subliminal reference to Ancelotti's coaching.
When the players see the work Rafa is doing on the training pitch, it gives them that bit of extra impetus.
Onwards and upwards.
135 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:25:17
136 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:25:48
What I prefer about him over the last fella are 4 things:
1. He seems to actually care.
2. He actually coaches and changes things during a game.
3. He is getting the most out of what he has available.
4. He is actually winning the games we should be winning.
137 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:26:03
We nearly won but didn't because one or more humans, in the heat of a single moment, didn't perform perfectly after 88 minutes of hard graft and emotion.
If you want to pick over something in fine detail watch Gray's run for our goal. So many chances for that run not to be successful, so many things the lad had to do right to make the goal possible.
138 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:28:50
139 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:31:37
140 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:32:27
You can see the confidence building and the supporters finally having faith.
We will have setbacks but I for one am loving the transformation in application.
141 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:32:59
142 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:33:36
Gray took a huge risk playing in Duke he should have just gone for the 40 yard shot on goal.
He reminded me a bit of Maradona v England in how he kept his feet despite contact with their defenders and cleared three of them with the ball at his feet. If that was Mason Mount Southgate would be lauding him for weeks and probably build a golden statue of him at Lancaster Gate
143 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:34:42
1) We had 13 shots, with 6 on target so lack of a clinical approach was the principle reason we did not win.
2) De Gea stayed on his line, so I dont see how Davies could have tried to chip him.
3) Mina ran offside as Davies played the pass, he simply had to look across the line and time his run. But he is a centre back and he was excellent in defence, so cant blame him too much.
4) Davies could have shot, but I dont think he would have scored.
5) If either DCL or Richy had played today we would have won the game given the excellence of the performance.
144 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:35:23
This is the first time I've ever been excited about Anthony Gordon. This was a strong, mature performance in a high-pressure situation.
Keane's mistake was really, really ugly... credit to Pickford for a fine save, but that really was a miss by one of the world's best finishers. Cavani will see that in his sleep. (Keane was flawless otherwise.)
One of this club's biggest problems over the past few seasons has been lack of leadership. Well, anybody watching Allan, Mina and Doucoure today should feel a whole lot better. They have emerged as leaders of this team. I credit Rafa for that, and for empowering Duke and Mina with more confidence. It shows.
If they continue playing this way, Townsend and Gray aren't the steals of the season. They're the steals of the last 20 years. Credit to them. And to Rafa for claiming them off the rock pile.
Rondon is slow, yes, and his holdup play has been subpar... but his work rate is there and he's winning every header. I still expect him to be a non-contributor, but he's trying every minute. And he's not to blame for us not getting a better striker in the transfer window.
And finally, I don't blame either Davies or Mina as harshly as some here. Yes, Davies should have shot and Mina shouldn't have strayed offside. But Davies' first instinct in that situation is to pass, and it was a good touch pass. And a defender who finds himself in that position once or twice a season, as Mina did, is not going to be looking down the line of defenders. He's gonna be watching the ball and being excited about scoring. I love the late-game attacking commitment from both, looking for a winner, even if they didn't get it right.
145 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:39:23
146 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:39:41
147 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:43:12
He was three and three at the time.
Think he's five and three now!
148 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:47:33
149 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:48:38
The gulf in money spent on their squad is stupid. United are 750m in debt yet we are the ones restricted by Ffp! How does that work.
A good tactical game to watch. As expected their main threat was Fernandez. A bit of quality and a bit of a deflection gives them an undeserved lead. Half chances are converted at a higher rate by quality players and our half chances fell to Rondon.
Gray looks more like a £75m player than Sancho. Buying him was a masterstroke. Loved Townsend's celebration. The traveling blues must have enjoyed that.
A good all round team performance. Rondon is still a concern but hopefully DCL and Richy are back for the next game. Doucoure my motm for his energy and drive at both ends. He looks a different player than last year's sideways and backwards.
A poor decision by Davies, A confident player shoots but Davies picked the pass looking across the line. He would know instantly that Mina was offside. A quality player hits the target.
150 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:53:23
151 Posted 02/10/2021 at 16:59:54
152 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:00:55
Great performance, could Gray be our solution to the number 10 role? Well done Rafa- what a manager!!
153 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:01:10
154 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:01:18
155 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:04:01
Given what United could field, their depth options and our injuries I was just hopping for a competitive effort, even a losing one. Was hoping not to get blown away which would have dissipated a lot of good feeling.
Now, I feel really encouraged going forward, the team was set up perfectly and could have won the game. Don't want to hammer Rondon, who's doing his best and trying to play himself not only into shape but also sharpness (he's now in shape, but still lacking the latter quality) but swap DCL or Richy for him today and we win this. Had one great and two good chances, but both efforts blocked as he's taking an age to get the shot off.
Gordon - fantastic from the lad, now looking a premier league player. Noticeably stronger. As Ajay above mentions, after Digne loses a 50-50 Gordon hares back 30 yards to put in a great tackle. Played his heart out. I would personally use him on the left ahead of Iwobi, when needed.
Doucoure, Gray and Andros must be three contenders for player of the year, allowing that we're only 7 games in! All three were amazing today. Though Allan and Duke bossed that midfield.
Best effort so far from Godfrey at right back. Still caught out a couple times but looked quicker and stronger, so optimistic he'll be back to normal after the international break. I think Benitez sees him as a right back as much as a centre half.
Two international breaks in and the team is very much reflecting the manager's persona and long may that last.
156 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:05:27
Still may end up being a dud signing but he at least occupied the two centre halves on occasions.
157 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:05:48
158 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:06:55
159 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:07:30
DCL was in the box just behind me and was rocking when that second went in.
And re the heading - Man Utd accept a draw is more like it.
160 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:09:45
To my mind, not a "poor decision" by either player. Just bad luck for both guys... neither of whom has been in that position in longer than they, or any of us, can remember.
Brent #159, you're certainly hanging out with some good mates at the game!!!
161 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:10:13
And finally, well done to Moshiri for holding his nerve and appointing Rafa.
162 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:20:59
What is it with Michael Kendrick that he feels that he must insult every Everton player. I wouldnt mind if he wrote well and it was a good read but the piece is full of mistakes. No wonder TW is full of vile or is that the purpose of the article to encourage it.
Can we please have a better quality post match review. NSNO
163 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:23:02
On BT Jenas defended Tom saying the mindset of a midfielder is to put decent weighted passes here and there...however when pressed both Jenas and Ferdinand said Davies should have shot.
I know draw is a good result but if he had scored, imagine how we would feel, and how the other teams and media would be forced to look at us differently.
164 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:23:54
As for Davies, its his first touch that pushes him a touch wider than he would want to be to shoot - and makes the pass seem a better option. If his first touch takes him directly towards goal, rather than slightly off to the right, then I think Davies shoots. Its very small margins though - the touch, the decision to pass, the offside - and not coming away with the winner from such a brilliant position (however luckily after Godfreys initially poor touch) feels like a huge missed opportunity. But an away point at OT is good, and the manner of the performance was excellent.
165 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:25:21
166 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:27:10
167 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:29:16
Good spot, it was Mina who had gone missing at that pointing leaving Keane to cover two players.
However generally both of them had decent games.
168 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:30:43
Each to their own. Frustrating that we had wasted such a great chance to win the game. No more so than both players in question.
For all those having a go at last season's manager. There is no arguing that he delivered our best away season since our 87 championship winning team. No mean achievement.
I just hope Benitez gets backed in the transfer market otherwise we will be in the same position in 18 months time.
169 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:31:26
Now, I was one yelling, "shoooooot!" at my TV screen, but a cross was an option. Tom took it. Mina was 6 inches offside and "Oh well". We had other chances to score, not just that one.
Hope we have everyone healthy when ManU comes to Goodison. Run their midfield into the ground.
170 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:32:04
171 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:33:14
We need to be recognised as part of the elite, once more, for that to happen and for it to be a shock for us to finish outside the top 4 rather than it being a shock for us to be contenders.
Hopefully, after several false starts under Moshri, by default, Rafa Benitez is the man to take us there and he has, this season, already started by laying a good foundation, with a very depleted squad.
Long may it contunue.
172 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:43:15
Stuff - he was offside. Ah well, at least when I read ToffeeWeb tonight I wont be slated for missing an open goal. I may have scored but I can't take the risk of missing and getting more abuse from our fans
173 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:43:52
174 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:44:02
I must stress that while Calvert-Lewin "was in the box behind me", that doesn't mean to say I was in the same box as him!! Or even any box! I was right next to the Man Utd fans. Oh, the delight when we scored!
175 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:44:37
176 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:47:03
About Rondon, I think that after the transformation that has taken place with our squad, with every player not only showing a willingness to pull his tripes out for the 90 minutes. Gray and Townsend, for roughly 1and half million, playing so well that they are scaring the pants off opposing teams players now and will do for the rest of the season Doucouré and Allan really forming a top partnership. The whole team fights for each other and all this is due to Rafa Benitez in less than 3 months.
Now Rondon was brought in by Rafa and I will not question his decision, based on a few games. Rondon is a fighter and will pull his tripes out for the team, as much as anyone else. I don't know how long it's been, before he come to us, that he played a premiership game or even trained regularly. I don't think he was expecting to be in the first team for months, or maybe as a sub now and then. Well, he's been chucked in with our two top strikers out, Ellis Simms and Dobbin have hardly any experience of first-team action and Simms is still just coming back from a fairly long injury.
So Rondon is slow but I don't think he's a player who will hide and the only way he can get anything like match fit, is to play.
I don't see our manager bringing him in if he didn't think Rondon could help the squad but at the moment he's doing the job as our centre-forward in a new team, he's not match-fit and his reactions need speeding up.
Well, we're playing teams like Man Utd and he tried his best, so that'll do for me, and much more importantly, the manager until we have a better alternative. He's part of our squad, so that's it. He pulls a blue shirt on and does his best. Maybe not as top quality as we'd lke but he'll do his best and that's fine by me.
177 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:47:08
DCL being at the game is kinda weird. Shouldnt he be posting on Instagram from his jet and answering fan questions with “oh did we have a game today?”
178 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:47:36
179 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:49:47
What ARE you on about?
180 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:50:17
181 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:51:10
182 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:52:47
It did occur to me before the game that Mina would breathe down Fernandes's neck at every opportunity. When I seen Fernandes not shake Mina's hand, I knew he had both on and off the ball.
183 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:53:46
184 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:54:01
186 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:56:42
187 Posted 02/10/2021 at 17:59:27
You just did, John!
188 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:00:10
189 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:02:43
That said, it is a perfectly legitmately observation to make that he had both the time and space and A LOT of the goal to shoot at. We have players, some of them on the pitch today, who in the same situation would have only one thing on their mind in that situation: to score. Passing to Mina as Tom did would not have been considered.
Equally, those saying that Mina should have held his run or that Tom should have noted Yerry had moved offside are off with the fairies, enjoying the benefit of endless slow-mo replays.
In real time, in the intensity of a PL game, you don't have the time to compute that such is the fast pace of the game.
So personally, I won't be 'blaming' either Tom or Yerry. We should have scored from that situation and thus won the game.
We didn't. Small margins, and all that. But I'm more uplifted by the performance in adversity, rather than downcast that we didn't get all three points. Rafa, the players, collectively and individually, are all doing very well.
190 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:04:23
I was in the Camelot box c 2003. The Moyes game where we played really well but they scored three late goals to beat us 3-0
Every time they scored, those close enough in the Stretford End would turn around to watch the replay on the tv we had in our box.
When the third went in I stood up and switched the tv off. Cue about 500 Mancs singing ‘You Scouse bastard'. Very proud moment./p>
191 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:05:58
Ah, now it makes sense.
192 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:10:20
Hockey is played on grass, where you can only use on side of the stick and can't kick the ball. The skill level in Ice Hockey is just being able to stay upright, that's all.
193 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:11:10
194 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:11:12
They were right, of course, Graham!
195 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:12:02
It is for you only to show that such opinions were wrong rather than classing those who hold them as "off with the fairies". That para was a genuine example of what off with the fairies really is. You have no qualification or justification to level accusations like that.
196 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:13:09
Eddie #163... "Those of you who haven't stood in a penalty area for a while"...that would describe Davies, who hasn't cracked a good shot on goal in probably a year and hasn't scored in nearly two. I think expecting him to be a calm and confident striker in such a situation is a bit unrealistic. And when he has a wide-open Mina to his left, I don't think there's any chance he'll choose differently.
197 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:13:38
That's a good point the ball Tom played was excellent - perfect weight splitting the goalie and centre half leaving them in no mans land just a pity big yerry strayed offside
198 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:14:32
Badge of honour mate
199 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:15:20
200 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:18:28
201 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:18:56
202 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:20:22
203 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:25:49
No, it isn't factual, it's your opinion – not fact. Why do people struggle so much with this distinction between quantifiable fact and personal opinion? Perhaps it is the major weakness in human psychology? People really believe that their often grossly biased opinion is fact. I completely disagree too, comments can be negative or positive.
204 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:25:50
I think it was a fantastic performance and a great result considering the wealth of talent United have available, and our injury problems.
Especially encouraging is our refusal to accept a losing score line.
205 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:31:25
At QPR the team lost its shape after he was withdrawn. Today the team kept its shape, becoming stronger the longer the game progressed. Rondon played his part in helping to make that happen.
I am very happy we have 14 points from the opening seven games in spite of the injury problems. The team looks very well drilled.
206 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:31:37
207 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:34:37
I suppose like most fans, my initial reaction to the disallowed goal was one of disappointment but, on reflection, I decided that it was such a fine margin and the human element had to be considered.
I also thought that every player gave his all for the cause, and if the score had remained 1-0 to Manchester United, I would have been just as proud of the effort that the players put into the game.
208 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:38:07
209 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:40:32
210 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:42:04
I with you wholeheartedly and I agreed with the post only para 3. Please read it and give your views on whether opinions of intelligent fans are classified as "Off with the fairies?"
I'd apologise personally.
211 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:49:20
A top quality midfielder gets it out of his feet, takes a yard or two forward a bit like Andros did.
212 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:51:04
Pleased for Anthony Gordon, some good runs and passes, especially a slide-rule pass down the wing to Gray I think it was. He did give the ball away cheaply a few times, but working out when to pass and when to hold on to it is all part of his development.
Gray for Saka in the England team, anyone?
213 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:52:28
To say that either was at fault is I think, the point that Jay is driving at. In his opinion, the ones who are off with the fairies, are those who believe either should or could have acted differently. Not something to apologise for, in my opinion.
214 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:54:20
There is a visible shift in the mindset going on, down to the hard work and organisational skills of Benitez and his staff. Best of all this leaves me with an impression that we are going to find some consistency over the season, our good performances are going to be repeatable.
With regards Tom, he's a midfielder, the immediate instinct is to pass, a striker like Aguero would burst the net. It was a good pass too, just a bit unlucky that Yerry was a bit too far advanced, shit happens.
215 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:54:47
If Mina was onside when Tom passed the ball, it would have been a goal.
Fact is quality wins games and, in that situation, we lacked it.
216 Posted 02/10/2021 at 18:55:20
"... when Tom passed, Mina was onside. Tom's pass was superb as it left De Gea for dead and a good striker would have varied his run and stayed onside."
Perhaps you have replayed the move on your telly or computer. If so, then fair enough. However, as I looked at it on BT at the time, Tom seemed to dither and thus Mina strode into the offside position, which I think Tom should have noticed. Perhaps the reason he didn't notice was that he had taken a touch and was now seeing the goalie in his way?
By the way, I am one of Tom's backers on here (not quite as big as Darren but I usually have Tom's back). I shall take a look at MotD in the morning (as by 10:30 tonight, I shall be pissed).
A cracking result, and listening to 606, it is depressing hearing how it is all about Man Utd, and hardly a mention for the tremendous contribution of our whole team and staff. COYBs!
217 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:00:01
If Mina was onside when Tom passed, it would have been a goal. Jeez, you actually put that to print.
218 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:19:18
220 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:23:28
Martin Mason, you have written @183 when Tom made the pass, Mina was onside. For fuck's sake, why was it not given, then?
I'll tell you why: because it was offside.
Tom made the wrong decision; he should have shot and would have scored. If that chance had fallen to Doucouré, it's a goal.
Now I'm not saying Tom played badly as I did not watch the game... but, in that moment, he made the wrong choice. Simple.
221 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:27:51
Yes, Mina should have stayed onside. But Tom can see who he's passing too, and he's offside. Therefore it's the wrong decision.
So yes, there is a discussion. It's a simple one, both players are at fault. Mina shouldn't be running offside, Tom shouldn't be passing to him. It's not rocket science.
222 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:27:59
223 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:30:24
224 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:30:49
The supporters were magnificent today and concentrated on lifting the team, they were excellent. The team played great, every one of them. We had a moral victory, if not an actual one. It was the Mancs who were leaving the stadium in their thousands before the end of the game. That will have transferred itself to their players.
As far as Yerri is concerned, his fault was enthusiasm for getting us a goal and strayed offside a bit. I'd rather that more often, as he'll then get it right more.
Good day for us Blues!
225 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:35:04
We were very positive on the counter-attacks today. Doucouré is a different beast, Gray a steal, and Townsend – who I've always rated – proving he's the player that showed so much potential but needed that manager to get the finished article out of him.
The Tom Davies 'pass or shoot' debate is a no-brainer for me. One-on-one, you don't pass... a more confident player like Gray or Townsend would have finished it.
226 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:36:20
Anyway, as entertaining as this thread is... Jane Seymour is on Live and Let Die. So...
227 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:36:58
A lot of praise will rightly be given to Gray and Townsend but I reckon Michael Keane deserves some too. He looked very secure today. This is impressive stuff from Benitez and his players. Long may it continue.
228 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:41:07
For too long, we've paid many millions of pounds for players who, quite often, look as though they can't be arsed, or look interested sometimes but not others. I think he'll do his best to sell, give away, send out on loan, anyone with that attitude and replace them with honest players who'll pull their tripes out.
I just have liked to see him here instead of Koeman; but we are where we are. I think it's a good start and personally, I'd like to see him here as long as he wants.
229 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:44:31
Blaming Mina is in my opinion a very strange take on what we saw.
Despite his professional comments in his press conference I expect Benitez to be livid at squandering two points in such a soft-arse way, and I expect de Gea and Ollie to be delighted that there was no attempt at a shot.
230 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:45:08
The flip side, as I heard Lineker say in the Euros, is if you get a chance to score, you shoot. It either goes right or wrong. If you pass, then both the pass and the shot can go wrong.
But the point is, in either scenario, it can go wrong. Davies would have needed to hit a hell of a shot to score. More likely is a miss. As it happens, he got his pass right. So I don't think he got it wrong, I think he got it right. Just unfortunate that Yerry couldn't check his run.
Man City miss plenty of those too. They just keep going and score plenty too.
231 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:47:01
The improvement in the belief, attitude and commitment and team play, is improving each game.
Great performance, proud Blue Nose, and the ale is being sunk in copious amounts tonight, all enjoy this weekend.
“Whats Our Name?”
232 Posted 02/10/2021 at 19:49:28
He's a no-nonsense centre-half in the old school mould, he lacks some pace on the turn but facing goal, he's a proper defender. He'd always be the first centre-half on my list out of what we currently have.
233 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:02:15
Do you think that, with better coaching at Finch Farm, Tom Davies would have taken the shot on himself?
235 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:14:18
236 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:16:56
In my opinion, it's not a difficult shot to take on. I said above that goals are very big, Townsend's shot on the run was much more difficult.
Tom decided in the blink of an eye to pass to a guy who was ahead of him and his pass, a clear mistake. I think Tom bottled it. He is low on confidence. Townsend is high as a kite and full of it now.
I hope Andros talks to Tom and gives him a bit of a boost. Davies is capable of guiding that ball past De Gea, of that there is no doubt.
We have seen Rafa give Doucouré the chance to express himself – and what a player he looks... let's hope that Tom can also get his mojo back, and next time, he pops it in the onion bag.
if this had happened at the end of a 4-0 thumping, we wouldn't be talking about it. It is relevant because we could have beaten them at OT and gone top of the pile.
237 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:18:05
He can stay for as long as he wants, as far as I am concerned. The belief and fight that we have craved for so long is returning in spades. Rafa is putting down the foundation for something special, just need to sort out our finances now.
238 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:24:30
I personally think Davies did everything right until he executed the pass but, by then, I was thinking he should have changed the angle. But I'd put it down to confidence rather than coaching, although this new manager is giving me confidence, because his mantra is that it's all about the team.
239 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:26:12
Pickford Coleman Gordon Mina Keane Digne Townsend Doucouré Allan Gray Richarlison Calvert-Lewin
The problem is going to be the strength of the squad.
240 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:32:31
A word for Rafa - my first since being unconsollably upset when he was hired. I have to give the guy credit.
When he came here, he said (paraphrase) that he knew the city, and knew what the Everton fans wanted. I tread cautiously here, but from the outside looking in I'd say he's delivered on that sentiment.
This is a team. They've worked their nuts off this season. They've played for one another with intent, hustle, and purpose. We have an identity. We have pace out wide that we've used to great effect on the counter.
This is a team full of effort, and a team I really can get behind. There's very, very little not to like, even factoring in player shortcomings.
Rafa's done a really good job, and today on the road at Old Trafford, when I thought for sure the easy start to the season would come crashing down and we'd be exposed, our players redoubled their efforts, were set up tactically well, and gave it their all.
From the outside looking in, that's an "Everton" team. I love it, and long may it continue. In some way I'm really proud of this squad.
And Rafa is to be credited for that, so well done you Overweight Adopted Scouser Dinner Server fella!
241 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:40:44
I expect you're asking me a naughty leading question but, yes, I'm bemused that some professional players in any position, including 'keepers, seem unable to take a meaningful shot.
I realise the awesome ability of the likes of Lorimer can't be coached but shooting hard and accurately is definitely coachable so, yes, I do ponder just what they do at Finch Farm that leaves no time for the basics to be mastered.
Hell, the lad missed a crucial penalty that sealed our fate at QPR so I'd have expected he himself to have had the gumption to practice and practice ever since, but apparently not given his decision today.
Benitez has stressed that he wants goals from as many players as possible and this season I've enjoyed players at last making an effort from outside the area, even if they miss. I just think Davies needs to find some belief in himself, still.
242 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:44:03
That said, enjoy the contrast of Lyndon's headline -- Depleted Everton match United and earn hugely deserved draw.
243 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:44:10
244 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:46:27
Well said about Rondon, the two Man Utd centre-backs were wary of him throughout the game and hardly ventured forward. It's very obvious at the moment that Rondon is nowhere 100% fit but is forced to play most of the game because there is no-one else fit at the moment.
I'm sure he will play a good part in the near future, doing what he was bought for, coming on to relieve Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin after 60-70 minutes or so as a substitute or playing for the 90 minutes when he is fitter or when the other two are injured or in need of a rest.
I understand the frustration over him but I think he will change fans' minds, like some are changing over Benitez.
245 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:48:35
I think it will be planned much better this time and we'll be building for the future, not just to see if we can scrape into the top six this season.
246 Posted 02/10/2021 at 20:48:38
He's also always been very professional when it comes to looking after his squad, and it was interesting to listen to Benitez, who seems very aware of the rigorous nature of the game in this country, and will hopefully use his squad of players accordingly, if and when he can, already talking today about not overloading his players.
248 Posted 02/10/2021 at 21:09:04
What a character (alongside the great man who owns the song) hes proving to be. Determined to show the idiots (me at the time!) who wrote him off as a palace reject just how stupid we were. Keep it up son, another Kevin Campbell legend in the making if you do. 🙏
249 Posted 02/10/2021 at 21:09:15
Terrible anti Scouse chanting but to be fair paradoxically great respectable applause in memory of Roger Hunt.
As for the team, a top-rate performance against a much over-rated Man Utd
Godfrey did play well, some solid tackles despite going AWOL for their goal, Martial's customary one versus us – the crossfield ball should have been cut out first.
Townsend, Gray and Keane were my aces today.
Agree with others the handbags incident showed we are together a team defending the bad tackle on young Gordon.
Overall teamwork and fight bodes well for the future but minus Rondo of course, totally out of his depth.
A typical Benitez game plan and coming from behind in the bias cauldron of OldTrafford to boot showed great character.
250 Posted 02/10/2021 at 21:19:28
Got it mate. 👍
Martin @188 explained too.
251 Posted 02/10/2021 at 21:38:59
I honestly thought that Doucouré gave as good a midfield performance as I've witnessed from any Everton midfielder in years. Very strong, very powerful, and he had a great desire to be involved.
I'm glad Michael Keane is getting praise, because being a critic, I definitely think Everton played higher up the pitch at times today, (definitely more so than at Villa) and if we can start doing this on a regular basis, I think the whole team will improve.
252 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:01:08
253 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:10:11
Mike @161, best post on the thread.
254 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:11:19
I don't care what position you play, but every player knows if you're behind the ball from a pass, then you're onside. If Mina had a rush of blood and got caught offside…
Overall though, more than made up with a draw. Can't fault any player, and if Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison were playing, then I firmly believe we would have won that game.
255 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:11:33
But the workhorses like McTominay, Fred, Doucouré or Allan? They might well have had a swing and missed. Or they might have made a hash of the pass.
I'm sure Davies will look at it tonight and question why he didn't take the shot on. But I think Benitez will just tell him to keep taking up intelligent positions around the opposition box and keep playing intelligent passes. Like I say, a very Man City sort of pass (and some come off, some don't).
Infuriating not to win when we came so close.
256 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:23:56
Benitez was asked about the pass by Tom. He wasn't too bothered, at least publicly. I think that Rafa will have a positive word with tom, jut as Robert has said.
If we're going away from Old Trafford, disappointed, the what a difference form Moysie's "glad to escape with our lives" quote. I've just got BBC back on the telly (rain's caused havoc) and I'll be looking forward to seeing us not last on...hopefully!
257 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:24:47
It appears that, despite a heroic performance, there are some who still look for scapegoats. As you have pointed out, Rondon played his part by occupying the Man Utd defence.
The Townsend goal was a thing of beauty but, if Man Utd had scored an exact copy, the finger pointers would have been out in force. It's obviously alright to score such a goal, but a criminal offence to concede one.
I have on occasion, been ridiculed for saying that players are not machines that can be programmed, an opinion that I will always hold. In closing, I will repeat myself by saying it was a heroic performance by the whole team.
258 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:27:35
259 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:28:58
Dont give us much hope today.
The likelihood is that well lose.
The real worry is that today shows that the good start to the season was another false start.
If we get anything out of this game itll be a minor miracle in my view.
Will battle for 1/2 an hour then concede due to defensive lack of concentration, heads will go down and more goals will follow cue Ronaldo media wank fest. 4-0.
Im expecting a walloping today.
If we get anything from Old Trafford it will be a minor footballing miracle.
Weve played no one up and to this point, and reality is about to bitch-smack us in the face. I fear we will get absolutely tonked.
Lambs to the slaughter, I think.
I just dont think we have anything near enough to beat them.
Not sure of your definition but that's what "downbeat" looks like to me. I can't stomach it.
260 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:30:11
I have watched it on the BT Sport replay. I am afraid it was Mina who was offside. Tom was well on but Mina was just ahead of the ball when the pass was made. At the game, I must admit I was surprised the assistant hadn't raised his flag but, in fairness to him, it was closer than it looked from our angle in the stand.
261 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:34:24
I had to watch from my couch and when our second goal went in l just sat there silently knowing it was off. Unlike the first goal that had me screaming and running in circles around the couch.
Very glad to have Pickford back in goal. Proud of Keane and how he has bounced back from a shaky start to the season. He and Mina have both benefited from playing together, seems like he's injury-free now for a few games, and they are buzzing off each other. Mina is loving it, growing in confidence.
Godfrey and Digne both grew into the game and spirit of the team. Allan and Doucouré are just a revelation, what a partnership this season. I can see Allan playing through the pain sometimes late on and, though we may have to keep an eye on him, we do have Tom Davies... all heart and, with a bit more confidence and experience, an excellent squad player that could possibly offer more as he matures.
Gray, another that shines. How have we needed that speed and tenacity! He had no right to win those challenges but did so and made the first goal, putting Doucouré in, whose quick feet slid a perfect pass into Townsend.
Andros Townsend. He couldn't even get in the Palace team at times last season but just look at his smile, his professionalism, the cool head at the right times. Someone mentioned a parallel to Kevin Campbell and his influence and l'd go along with that. Hats off to him.
Gordon also surprised me, roled up his sleeves but did what he was asked to do going forward and in defence. It was nice and refreshing to see a winger beat his man for speed down the wing and put in a first-time cross without cutting back (drives me crazy).
Rondon had his best game. No matter how much you want to pick on him, me included, he didn't give up. He kept going. Should do better with a couple more opportunities but, as the game went on and when l expected him to really tire, he plugged on, put himself about, caused a right nuisance of himself and actually started to win some headers. There is more to come from Rondon; before this game, l thought he looked spent... not just unfit. All the signings are makings a difference. Having the right attitude innit.
And now a word for Rafa. Optimistic.
262 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:36:28
263 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:37:41
Good point, but do you think it is beyond the point of reality that Michael could be a bit less pessimistic?
My advice to the 95% is don't get in a lift with this character or we may not see you again!
Onwards and COYB.
264 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:42:43
If Calvert Lewin and Richarlison were playing against that same team then we would have won fairly comfortably I think.
But one big advantage of playing without them today was that Solskjaer heavily underestimated our threat and rotated his squad to a fairly disrespectful extent I think. He got his comeuppance in spades.
I watched the game on an NBC stream and I have to say that the commentary was sickeningly sycophantic (Jim Beglin aside, who is the type of bellend you can imagine cheering on anyone who limes up against us). Fanboy level. "CR7" was mentioned a couple of times. How did this ridiculous pseudonym for Ronaldo creep into mainstream? It's the kind of idolatrous adulation that embodies all that's wrong with the Premier league and makes it increasingly difficult to watch for me.
265 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:45:35
Believe me I wanted to come but it's a 500-mile trip for me and I do it on a bike to avoid the jams up and down. At 70, it gets harder to do.
266 Posted 02/10/2021 at 22:46:23
John McFarlane @257,
"Hi Dave  it appears that despite an heroic performance there are some who still look for scapegoats".
It was a heroic performance but it could have been so much more. And that is why some of us are looking at Davies and Mina in that moment. I am sure, in a parallel Man Utd thread, fans are discussing how Cavani put his header too close to Pickford, and how Ronaldo put his late effort wide, not to mention the line-up and subs. These are the little details that decide games, and make us type our opinions.
It is not to take anything away from the achievement of the team. I am sure Benitez will give great scrutiny to all of our shortcomings on Monday and I expect that professionals like Tom D and Yerry M, will take the advice and move on.
There is nothing wrong with trying to analyse just what could be improved; indeed, Townsend stated after the game that you pop one in the top corner and Raf asks why you didn't pop it in the bottom one, etc, etc. I think old Rafa would be one of us moaning minnies, if he was simply a supporter.
267 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:03:28
I actually don't mind Michael's posts and sometimes his titles are inspired. I admit that l used to pull my face a bit but he shoots from the hip and his reports are always straight after the emotion of a game. It's more than 5% believe me. Lyndon has a more measured approach but seems to give himself time to digest things.
Andy Crooks, sorry we didn't get longer to chat but l enjoyed meeting you briefly, we crammed a lot into the walk up to Goodison and hope to meet again soon.
Martin, keep on trucking (or biking). I'm too clumsy for a bike.
268 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:11:08
Hmm. Beeb bias against us again? Who'd a-thought it!
And for once I fully agreed with the "expert pundit" Ian Wright (and Danny Murphy) when he/they said of Davies that he "passed the buck" instead of shooting to try to win the game.
269 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:14:43
270 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:17:43
The key for me was that Lyndon's core of Doucouré, Allan, Gray and Townsend stood up to scrutiny when tested against a Top 6 side. Though Man Utd are clearly exposed as individuals rather than a team. Putting an inexperienced, so-called up-and-coming manager in charge of a team challenging for a Top 6 place is plagued with inconsistency.
271 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:18:14
272 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:23:57
I know there is a lot of criticism of Rondon and some is justified by his fitness level, but he does have a neatness about him, laying off the ball, positioning, and does get striking opportunities.
Whilst a fit Calvert-Lewin is good, he isn't the neatest in his play nor looks to be a shooting finisher, more a one-touch attacker with an okay positional sense.
273 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:25:32
If you are reading some of the comments now, Tom, turn your phone off, listen to your manager, he knows what he is talking about.
274 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:26:47
I think he did exactly the right thing by passing to Mina, who made the big mistake of being slightly too far forward and being caught offside. Having just seen the “goal” on MotD, I nearly threw my can of San Miguel through the telly in frustration, as Mina should not have been caught in an offside position.
275 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:30:30
However, let's be fair. He can learn from that. Next time perhaps he does and grasps the limelight. We all want him to do well, and dress better. I think even us fans are learning. As in how to accept that our manager isn't doing a bad job.
Rob, maybe you had too many San Miguels to see straight. Look at that one-on-one situation. I would not have passed the ball in a million years. Mina was actually onside the first instant that Davies got the ball but his touch took him a step wide. That touch meant the only option was to shoot.
276 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:36:46
I think you will find that ToffeeWeb is already out of bounds for Everton players.
I thought Fernandes in his MotD interview was trying to blame his team-mate for his poor performance, when in reality he was sat upon by Mina. He does not like playing against Everton now, and will have nightmares.
277 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:38:47
278 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:42:02
I haven't seen anything to suggest he's a good player. But he is at least a forward.
Rondon never left his position and that was vital. We had someone to contest balls forward and he gave them a hard time physically, even if he was never going to chase people down. That gave us shape throughout the game.
The comparison is Godfrey who has done plenty to suggest he's a good player. He worked hard all game. But he's not a right back and it showed on the goal and a few other moments where he got drawn infield towards his natural position.
279 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:46:49
I doubt very much that Tom Davies thought his touch meant Mina would be offside, and I still maintain he made the right decision to square the pass.
280 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:48:30
Godfrey was lost for that goal as you say, not keeping shape. Rondon did give Everton shape, the Man Utd centre-halves did not get forward or push up as much as they would like.
Good point, Ernie.
281 Posted 02/10/2021 at 23:57:11
Great team performance, including Rafa.
282 Posted 02/10/2021 at 00:00:35
283 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:07:23
284 Posted 02/10/2021 at 00:11:44
Ernie, great point about Rondon and though it could be construed as condescending its actually pretty accurate. We needed him as a presence so to keep our shape. He became more important as the game wore on, even when l thought it was time for him to be replaced.
That damn Benitez keeps proving me wrong.
285 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:18:42
286 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:27:37
Incredible. It takes 11 to pull off a performance like that. Stop demeaning your own players.
We haven't got 10 Lionel Messi but what we have shown is that we have got players who with the right leadership can scrap, battle and match the best of them.
Get off their backs and support them.
Absolutely chuffed with the lads today. Every one of them.
287 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:31:57
Special mentions to Gray for his unbelievable tenacity to keep that ball and get it through to Doucouré who himself had burst forward and then found that killer pass to Townsend who finished for me what is a goal of the season candidate.
Too many on here are doing what the TV pundits do with the help of their screens and playback technologies and that is analyzing every single part of the game. Lets get back to reality and try to enjoy the game.
For what its worth, only the top finishers would beat DeGae from that angle.
288 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:35:14
Your own report was not exactly uplifting. Must have taken Rennies to settle your stomach.😀
289 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:35:31
I think that Man U are vastly overrated and although Old Trafford is never an easy venue to visit, Villa and West Ham have both won there this season. I also think United and their manager vastly underrated Everton and Fernandes simply disrespected us too, with his we should beat them comments.
I Look forward to United's next visit to Goodison where I hope they pay us as little respect as they did today, and we give them a hiding.
290 Posted 03/10/2021 at 00:38:13
Didn't like the commentators like Ferdinand, AND Ole saying Gray and Doucoure should have been fouled in the lead up to the equalizer. Surely it's time to make a big issue about tactical fouling. I think it's like kicking the ball away stopping players taking a quick free kick or pulling a shirt. It should be a yellow.
Teams like Man City think it's their right to stop counter attacking with a tactical foul and refs seem to agree with them.
Gray is proving some player, not just with his speed and goalscoring but his all round game. Confident and mature. Still can't believe we got him, never mind the give away price.
The equalizer was made from three outstanding bits of skill. Gray took a ball he was never meant get, kept possession and flicked the ball to Doucoure who had the belief in Gray to hold up the ball and receive a pass. Doucoure then wriggled out of a couple of tackles and fed Andros who finished like er..Ronaldo?
291 Posted 02/10/2021 at 00:42:25
The dogs gave me the score draw. Listen to the dogs!
Fine performance. Me, the son and my brother, may only have been 3 deep (3 and a half when bolstered by Mrs Danny for the second half), but we dominated the pub in terms of atmosphere. We almost rioted when we equalised!
The shape and organisation was superb. Mr Benitez had his tactics spot on. The concentration was near perfect throughout. Slight lapse on the right hand side for their goal in leaving too much space, but otherwise excellent.
Our goal was fantastic. Subtle clearance from Allan. Outstanding work from Gray to keep possession and find the immense Doucoure and a great finish by Townsend to cap off a classic counter attack from a defensive situation.
The handbags. I was shouting at the time (much to the amusement of the London Mancs) to get in their faces and not be "nice little Everton". Well done boys. Don't take it and give it back. Stand up for yourselves. Great to see.
Doucoure is becoming our best player. Gray is exciting to watch, and, if he was a Mr Brands signing, well done to our Director of Football for what could prove to be an absolute steal. And Townsend. Very underwhelming signing at the time, but it just shows you. Well done to young Gordon as well. If you consider we add Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin back in the mix, this could be an exciting Everton team to watch.
I slept most of the afternoon and evening, hence being awake now. Great performance and it speaks volumes that the only disappointment we have is we didn't snatch all 3 points at Old Trafford.
The only real disappointment I have is that there is no Everton match next weekend.
Anyway, out with the dogs in just under 6 hours. But with a huge smile on my face.
292 Posted 03/10/2021 at 01:25:45
I DIDN'T WRITE THOSE THINGS.
And I do not appreciate your implication that I did.
293 Posted 03/10/2021 at 01:29:28
Yes, it was only his foot. His head was behind the ball, so he probably thought he was onside. He certainly didn't look across at the assistant referee after he scored... just wheeled away to celebrate.
294 Posted 03/10/2021 at 01:37:43
Best performance from young Anthony, looking like he will properly deliver on his promise. Ben Godfrey back to his best except a couple of lapses and the rest of the defence was solid. All get good marks with Townsend, Doucoure and Gray the pick, imho.
Long way to go but team looks miles more switched on and resilient. Isn't it great to see some outstanding goals again?
295 Posted 03/10/2021 at 01:38:47
I wrote that "bitch slapping" one!
I own it.
I thought we'd get absolutely tonked.
James C Crowley IV
Incorrect Predictor of Failure
296 Posted 03/10/2021 at 01:45:08
The Younger Davies, the Davies of, "What the fuck, I'll just run at them and score" versus Man City. There is a good-ish player in there, the player that threaded a ball through for Niasse versus Bournemouth. He and the coaches must work together to get past it – and hope he gets another shot to redeem himself.
Digne and Gordon were a bit iffy early on but grew into it. Overall nobody had a bad game, everybody kept at it.
I said on the Live Forum that Man Utd had a team of stars but we had the star team. We know we had, ever so briefly, 3 points in our grasp. And they know they got out of jail.
Moshiri, even if it was more by good luck than good judgement (who cares) and against my express wishes and advice, seems, up to now, to have picked a good 'un.
And more to the point, the team have responded to whatever it is he is doing.
But the headlines will be all about Ole's problems and how poor Man Utd are...'Kem!
297 Posted 03/10/2021 at 02:03:33
Good aggressive touch towards goal and then hit the target. It's better than 50/50 if he's positive.
But then can you blame him? He used to be the guy who went forward with every touch. Successive managers tried to make him more 'rounded' – ie, condition him to not lose the ball or make his old instinctive choices. Now he's hardly getting any game time. Anyone expecting him to just produce a moment of attacking confidence is probably being a bit unfair.
298 Posted 03/10/2021 at 02:15:48
Spot on, Ernie.
I'll never forget how Tom scored in the first minute of my first game at Goodison. April 2017.
Since that glorious day he has appeared in 147 games for the club and scored three goals.
So should anybody really be expecting assured finishing in that situation?
299 Posted 03/10/2021 at 02:31:25
"Everton accept a draw in a game they should have won"
Can't we all just get along?
300 Posted 03/10/2021 at 03:40:25
I agree. Gordon looks like he's got a bit about him after those anonymous brief appearances. Not that it sets the bar high but he looks better than Iwobi.
301 Posted 03/10/2021 at 03:58:30
MotD was just showing a re-run of our goal when there was a deluge and the picture froze for 5 minutes. Before and after was perfect. I've recorded the Sunday morning repeat!
I was in line with the linesman and, live, Mina looked level but as we now know he was marginally offside.
A great all-round effort but a special mention to Gordon who, at last, seems to be realising the potential all the coaches said he has. Also good to see Digne finally getting his act together.
Dourcouré was immense and my MotM.
302 Posted 03/10/2021 at 04:18:23
I think the aggression and solidarity the players showed around the Digne - McTominay thing worked in our favour.
Allan also immense as well as the rest of the players.
Enjoyed jumping around the lounge room with me kids in the suburbs of Melbourne to that one.
303 Posted 03/10/2021 at 04:44:15
When you get players like Gray and Townsend who give everything, it becomes infectious to the rest of the squad.
304 Posted 03/10/2021 at 04:55:53
It's night and day from Ashley Williams hiding his face under his shirt. Morgan and Kevin bunking off training or Sigurdsson hiding from the ball with his hands on his hips.
The other thing is pace. Not since the MLS Cup when Mirallas was buzzing have we had anyone who can run quickly with the ball.
Remember the slow-as-fuck passing under Roberto Martinez? Which got worse with Gomes? Amazing what you can do with a bit of speed and a modicum of courage.
305 Posted 03/10/2021 at 05:28:34
306 Posted 03/10/2021 at 05:35:35
I am just a bit reluctant to acknowledge Rafa as the messiah yet.
307 Posted 03/10/2021 at 07:15:51
I was too, but each week his seeming ability to perambulate on a liquid surface is looming large. Now where's that Humble, or Crow Pie? It may even taste better than anticipated. :-)
308 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:05:56
We scored a proper goal, theirs was deflected or Pickford throws his cap on it.
Glad Freddie Mercury Fernandes is pissed – and Tweedle Dum Ole shows his class again as the complete prick he is. Close the door behind you, Tweedle, on the way out before Christmas, my little friend – you are way out of your depth, and you know it. They should be top with that squad – that's where Benitez would have them.
Brilliant Blue Boys... bit of pride coming back to Everton.
309 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:05:56
Good call on Rondon. He showed his rustiness in the first half, taking an unnecessary extra touch as opposed to hitting it first time.
Dan Murphy @302.
Good shout out for the centre-backs. I thought Mina was excellent again. Big save from Pickford in the first half when, unfortunately, Michael Keane let one float over his head and lost his player. But Keane played well too. The entire team did. To repeat, we are pleased yet slightly begrudging we didn't take all 3 away from Manchester United. Not a bad place to be in.
Watching back, notice how Townsend doesn't even look up. He receives the ball and knows where that's going; he doesn't need to look and hits it first time. Take note, Rondon & Tom.
Early days, but nice position to be in as we head in the international break.
The Demarai Gray song is catchy!!
310 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:25:03
I thought Rondon made a decent contribution holding the ball up and keeping their centre-halves occupied. He will get better as he gets fitter.
Anthony Gordon really got my attention – he has a terrific turn of pace. He will get better as he grows in confidence.
Apart from the goal, perhaps the thing I enjoyed most about that performance was the attitude of all the players when McTominay and his pals tried to stand over us. I like that a lot.
311 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:30:31
Something has taken the spark he had, and damned near snuffed it out! He sometimes even seems to hit a pass (or underhit it) in a timid way and it doesn't reach his intended team-mate. It might be that Tom is naturally a lad whose confidence is crushed by criticism from us, or more likely, the way some of the managers have attempted to make him more "responsible"... or a bit of both.
Well, the one man who can do the best job in getting him his confidence and flair back is Rafa Benitez. I've moaned about him at the match, and multiply it by thousands and he might well take that on board.
I think that, for years (maybe many years), we have been frustrated to feck at our own players because the club has been in the doldrums, with little, soon snuffed-out, spells when we think we're getting somewhere, only to be shoved back down to mediocrity, or even worse.
I think it's so important now, that our players and our manager have started on a road to build a better squad and every player will play his part or he will go.
So the way I see it, when I'm up in the Upper Bullens, frustrated as feck and shouting at Keane for faffing about in our box, or for the aimless (to me) passing back sideways, anyway but forward, I'm going to bite my tongue... and if I can't find it in me to shout support, then I'll shut me gob!
I think we are finally heading in a direction led by someone who will get the best out of our players. I've suddenly realised that the clue is in the name... 'supporter'.
ps: Bill, I got the telly fixed then missed us except for the "experts" discussion. What a great goal by us and almost a great second. I was made up to see how many players we had in and around the box for the second goal ruled offside. (It was but it was still a great attack and Ben started it... excellent!)
312 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:55:53
But he didn't and it isn't worth going on and on about.
Tom Davies had about 0.25 seconds to think about what he was going to do. He had space, but how aware he was of the space we can't be sure in that moment, in that pressure...so his instinct took over.
Davies hasn't played much football this season. And when he plays, it is predominantly in the middle of the pitch. Such goalscoring opportunities are a rarity. So Tom's instinct, unfortunately, was to pass.
A goal could have done him so much good, maybe help him reach new heights. Hopefully Benitez can help him do that anyway.
But that shouldn't be the main discussion point from yesterday. Yesterday was a very positive day for Everton. Again coming from behind, again proving ourselves dynamic and good to watch. In Allan and Doucouré we have a wonderful and balanced midfield that is in form. In Gray and Townsend we have pace and directness that has lacked for years.
But the biggest positive from yesterday was Antony Gordon. What an accomplished performance. He started a little but frantic and looked a bit tired and daunted, but he grew into the game and as his confidence grew, he was more and more influential.
He's struggled to make an impact in his previous outings and questions were being raised as to whether he was just going to join the other academy graduates in lower league football. But yesterday he showed he could really become a fixture for this team, and in doing so save ourselves a good £20 million.
313 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:59:37
The appointment with our new manager just didn't sit comfortably with me, still doesn't, but I suppose it's a work in progress and I have to say well done to him.
Funny enough, I think it will get better, or is that hope just rearing its ugly head again? No matter, our manager deserves the plaudits.. that's been a few years since I could say that... a good result all round.
315 Posted 03/10/2021 at 09:40:38
If it wasn't for Sigurdsson's goals, we may have been in a couple of relegation fights the last couple of years. I do get a bit sick of hearing how he hid. Whatever he's done, he's been our best midfielder up to this season with his goals. As the others have been shite.
316 Posted 03/10/2021 at 09:58:28
I was going to post yesterday and praise Benitez but couldn't bring myself to do it. On reflection, we have had "the greatest manager ever", Roberto Koeman and Carlo Ancelotti. We wanted these guys to "understand and buy into Everton"; Benitez won't. He just wants to win.
He's the selfish sod we needed for many years and doesn't care about reputations or history. He is demanding 100% from everyone and getting it. The players know that, with a fully fit squad, they have to earn their place on the team. Yesterday was proof of that.
We weren't perfect but we stuck to his game plan and nobody shirked responsibility. That's the difference in my opinion but I wish I could get that reluctance to fully accept Benitez out of my system. It's been too many years of dreams and hopes dashed by January. Hopefully, with his obsession with winning and demanding more, this season might be the start of something good. Fingers crossed.
317 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:18:13
He came in to do a job. He's doing it well.
Smile on my face as I look forward to the Sunday football and get a Schalke win to wrap the weekend up.
318 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:43:03
First off, to the Evertonian (???) who gleefully posted on Friday "we'll lose 3-0". Well, we didn't, and you don't have the chance to follow up the sole purpose of your post by saying "I told you so" – what other reason would anyone have for posting anything so blunt on an Everton website?
As to the Davies debate, if Mina was as clearly offside as some claim, why did linesman and ref have to rely on VAR – seems it wasn't "clearly offside" to them. From my position in ground, I didn't see a "clear offside" and my mate actually remarked "Thank God Davies didn't shoot!" I do agree with those who feel a Premier League player should be able to score from that position but the reality is that many can't – indeed, would our much-vaunted striker Calvert-Lewin (who I'm a big fan of) have done so? I've seen him miss more than the odd one from that position. In a nutshell therefore, I don't blame Tom Davies for passing.
Apart from Rondon (who I'm a big critic of, but even so, thought he grew into the game a bit), every player did well. In particular, I was very impressed with Anthony Gordon who showed a lot more than I've seen from him in the past – my take on him is similar to that of Mike Gaynes and I now see a player in him.
Finally and slightly off topic, I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Norman Whiteside in Hotel Football after the game. What a nice, intelligent and witty man he is – if any of you guys ever get the opportunity to meet him, I'd urge you not to miss it.
319 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:43:17
So far the Crystal Palace and Leicester City cast offs have been proven very shrewd buy. Perhaps Rafa can also work magic on that Longstaff dude even I know very little about him.
320 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:58:08
And I noticed after one narrow escape in our defence that Allan had some harsh words to say to Anthony, for his lack of marking. Several minutes later, Allan was visibly and strongly applauding Anthony for his defending. That's great leadership from Allan. I know one or two don't rate him but count in his leadership qualities and never-say-die approach, and we have a very good player there.
321 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:59:32
Everton Academy player Charlie Whitaker was on the bench, his first exposure to this level of professional football. But he was shown a red card for a set-to at the end of the U23s game against Man Utd last weekend. So shouldn't he have been suspended?
Since he played for the U21s at Carlisle Utd on Tuesday, I guess the answer is No and they are back to only applying suspensions in the respective individual competition – not across all competitions.
In that case, if he was suspended for the U23s trip to West Ham on Saturday afternoon, would that have been a factor in having him (and not Simms, for example) on the bench at Old Trafford?
322 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:00:49
I don't know whether you use Twitter but I've gotten into the habit of just blocking anyone that says anything like "Penaldo", "Pessi", "GOAT" etc as I know these folks have nothing intelligent to offer. And I've only been using it a few weeks!
The BT coverage was bad enough. Everyone seemed stunned that a 36-year-old footballer was considered for a rest, considering he'd played 95 minutes less than 3 days earlier. How dare Solskjaer! How would the great man react? What about the fans, who expected to see the legend line up? I feel that questions may be asked in Parliament...
323 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:22:50
324 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:29:11
Davies had the chance to shoot, but the camera angle shows he didn't have an open goal by any means. De Gea filled an awful lot of it. I've seen countless world-class strikers miss this sort of opportunity. So has every other poster on this site. Let's not make it out to be an unmissable no-brainer.
The suggestion that he could see Mina was offside is absurd. Mina came from behind him. He would only have entered his peripheral vision when he looked up. The freeze-frame clearly shows only Mina's foot was offside when the ball was played. When Tom shaped to play the pass, he was not offside at all. Mina went from being onside to being offside in a microsecond. There is no fucking earthly way Tom Davies could have seen he was offside.
If the big fella did suffer a little from premature ejaculation, he can forgiven too. We have all seen world class strikers do it. He's a centre-half, for fuck's sake.
I watched our centre-backs with great interest yesterday and, for me, Mina had his best game in a blue shirt. He spent nearly the entire match trying to usher a reluctant Keane to shuffle up 4-5 yards and barely put a foot wrong all game. He was the main reason we restricted the Mancs to a few half chances.
I have long since maintained that TW gives a pretty accurate picture of Evertonia. If a player is getting hounded on here, you can bet your life it is happening at the match. Players are not deaf dumb and blind. When that goal was disallowed yesterday, the live forum lit up like a Christmas tree. Post after post pointing the finger at Davies.
For the life of me, I can't understand why people who sit in wait for an error (real or otherwise) don't understand why the youngster they have been hammering shouldn't suddenly turn all Gerd Muller when an opportunity arises – especially after all that relentless encouragement to build this confidence.
325 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:30:05
Step back and take a proper look at the team and bench he had available yesterday. There were only seven players who started who would have been likely starters in any other Premier League team at the start of the season and there was no-one of note on the bench. We were playing at Old Trafford against a star-studded team with a ridiculous amount of talent on their bench and backed by some 70,000 supporters, including the TV commentators! To come away disappointed with a point is one hell of an achievement – does anyone think Carlo would have matched that?
This guy is our best signing for many years – and for the record, I hate RS with a passion.
326 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:35:53
Townsend as well now. So we're not solely reliant on Coleman. Hence the dance off yesterday. No more nicey nicey Everton.
I watched Allan after he made to block for the corner which led to our counter attack and goal (which he made the initial clearance from). As soon as he made that tackle he was straight up shouting and pointing at his own players.
Proper narky shit. Long may it continue and I don't care whether he's Brazilian or from Birkenhead. The likes of Davies and Gordon will learn from him.
I meant to comment on Darren's earlier comment about calling out a man-of-the-match. If pressed, I'd probably go for Doucoure, but I agree with Darren, difficult to pick one out as it was a good all round team performance.
327 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:41:41
Didn't Carlo get a 3-3 draw last season after being 3-1 down at half-time? I think that result is as good as yesterday.
328 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:47:09
Personally I dislike the offside rule. Whatever happened to the "daylight" rule that was supposed to give the advantage to the attacking player? We seem to have got back to it being feasible for a player's left boot to be offside.
Shame as I was almost on the table and Mina's celebration was very Colombian!!! He cut some fine shapes.
329 Posted 03/10/2021 at 11:49:30
330 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:02:30
In a split second, he made a decision. He is paid to make decisions. I think he got that one right. He had a 70% chance. He passed to a team mate who had a 100% chance.
Much as I like Ian Wright, he is wrong.
331 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:08:12
Having said that, Everton's midfield, when not in possession, is still a little shaky and leaves a lot for the back line to contend with – which they did admirably except on that one occasion.
Godfrey, Keane and Mina were just terrific.
The signing of Gray and Townsend is the coup of the century as Everton have real prowess down the flanks which gave fits to Man Utd's two expensive full-backs in the second half.
The least said about the Tom Davies incident the better. We all know what he should have done.
Anyone else hate that snot-nosed Fernandes? Why was he not booked for the tackle on Allan, which was no different than the tackle on him by Doucouré, which he made a meal of?
332 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:09:55
Mina strayed off, frustrating but it happens, it's doubly frustrating that it cost us a rare win at Old Trafford but, by the end of the season, we will have seen hundreds or, depending on how much football you watch, thousands of players straying off. In addition, we'll see hundreds of situations where the player is closing in on goal, pass or shoot? If it goes in (with or without the aid of VAR), he made the right decision; if it doesn't, he bottled it, he was being greedy depending on his choice; who'd be a footballer. (Well, me for starters, but I'd be slower than Rondon.)
I'd prefer to concentrate on the positives of the performance with the only negative being how slow out of the blocks we are, and my glass-full-to-overflowing opinion that, with a fully fit squad playing 4-4-1-1 all bringing their ‘A' game on the field, we could give any team a game. Man Utd are some way off the clinical athleticism of Man City, Liverppool or Chelsea, but they will be there or thereabouts in May.
As a benchmark, to go with a weakened team to Old Trafford and be disappointed not to come away with all 3 points is setting the bar pretty high, and long may it continue.
333 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:11:39
As for the Davies chance, any Premier League player should score from that position with no-one close to him. The goals are massive. He probably thought he was making the right decision, passing it, but it didn't quite work out.
334 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:31:42
If Tom watches the video back, it's his look-up that fractionally kills it, regardless of whether he shoots or passes. Had he just put it across without looking or thinking, it's probably a goal.
Having watched it 3 times, it's actually more offside than I initially thought.
But, that is splitting hairs, being overly harsh. over analysing and being a total armchair warrior. No criticism from me but I'd have gone for the shot. Says the centre-back not renowned for his goalscoring record!!!
As myself and many have said, great team performance from every single player. Deserved point and no-one aside from Solskjaer and Ferdinand would have complained had we taken the 3. Why does West Ham seem so long away?
335 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:36:54
Compare that to the Townsend goal where he uses a light touch with his left foot to move it forward rather than sideways and therefore creating a much more straightforward finish.
It's a game of fine margins which is why the top quality finishers do it more often than most.
Even his greatest supporter(s) wouldn't claim finishing is Tom's greatest asset. I personally think the discussion reflects not a desire to make a scapegoat of the player – he certainly doesn't deserve it – but more a feeling that it was one that got away.
336 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:39:11
He had the opportunity to move but rejected it. I think Tom realises if he goes to another Premier League team, they will quickly learn he is not up to it. And before he knows it, he'll be playing for Tranmere or Morecambe.
337 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:41:13
I posted on here in the summer that Benitez might just be the counter-intuitive choice. He knows what we want, without all the gushing nonsense, doesn't give a stuff what people think and knows how to organise a team.
I remember some Blues being similarly sniffy when we got Sheedy from across the park. I hope the Benitez refuseniks will similarly eat their words.
Too early to tell, but promising nonetheless.
338 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:46:47
339 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:55:09
It then comes as no surprise that so few of our youngsters make it to the first team. If Goodison is rated as one of the most hostile environments by visiting players, imagine what it must feel like getting that same dog's abuse from your own supporters. It is difficult enough even making it to the first team squad without getting the treatment from the very people you expected to give you encouragement.
I bet that if Dobbin had made just one misplaced pass in his brief cameo the 'Championship player' posts would have then started - and some would then continue forevermore to get on his back.
I cannot fathom out why so many of our supporters are so quick to condemn our own academy players, while generous allowances are given for others we wasted millions of pounds in transfer fees and wages on.
For the record, I don't think Gordon is greedy so much as at times trying a little too hard to make an impression in the limited time he's been allowed. If his two shots that struck the woodwork in the league cup had gone in, then his progress would have been far quicker. For a young player the margins between career success and failure are so very narrow. I think Gordon is a player with great ability who is not afraid to take on a shot, unlike one £30 million acquisition who cannot even summon up the bottle to take a penalty in a shootout.
I defended DCL when he was getting stick and I back Gordon to become a very good EPL player, hopefully for us. He just needs more time on the pitch and a proper chance to prove himself, preferably with our supporters backing rather than backstabbing.
Well done to everyone involved in a great team performance yesterday. More of the same please!
340 Posted 03/10/2021 at 12:57:52
The loss at QPR was a blow. I'm sure most of us expected a decent run in that comp. The result at Leeds was a little disappointing. They look like a side struggling to repeat their 1st season back in the prem. The way we folded at Villa was a wake up call for Benitez. Something of a throwback to last season. I will never warm to Benitez. I do however recognize and respect the fact he is a winner and will try his best for our club.
341 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:01:45
The floundering utd centre half had lost his footing trying to impede Mina who now free of the jostling had powerful momentum which I reckon causes him to slightly overrun Tom.
No blame on Everton boys.
Kudos to Mina for getting up there and Tom for picking out the deft pass and the whole crew for being in that position at the end of the game. Well done blue boys
342 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:02:00
A professional football manager.
Starting to get Everton's professional football
players playing in a professional way.
343 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:04:53
As for the Davies/Mina debate, have to say I agree with Darren Hind when it comes to the notion that Davies would have been able to see that Mina had strayed offside; he probably sensed it was going to be tight, but the fact he played the pass must have meant that he believed Mina was still onside. And as for Mina straying offside, well I think a player makes a run according to when they think their team-mate will pass - and sadly Davies delayed his cute pass for that fraction of a second that puts Mina offside. Not really anyones fault - its just the incalculable small margins of football that sometimes go your way and sometimes do not.
Hopefully Anthony Gordon has woken up today with a big smile on his face, and the belief that he can have a decent career as a Premier League footballer. After a difficult first 20 minutes he knuckled down, worked hard, and showed ambition to take his man on and keep up his defensive duties. The endeavour was what pleased me most; hopefully the seemingly improved work-rate and attitude that the squad has under Rafa has rubbed off on Gordon - and if so then I believe his footballing qualities have much more chance of coming to the fore as he is, in my opinion, a very naturally talented footballer.
344 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:10:18
If some of the comments made on the Live Forum for each and every game, were made at Goodison on such a regular basis, the people who sat around them would quickly advise them to sit down lad and shut up! but perhaps by use of more colourful language.
345 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:20:01
I watched the game over again last night and was really pleased with Everton as a team who limited Utd to just a couple of clear chances.
Everton defended well and their passing from the defence through the midfield to the forwards was good to watch with very few hoof balls.
These people just complaining about how poor Utd were, and who should have played and who should not have played, should really take their blinders off and offer their compliments to a manager who's tactics and players were more than a match for Utd and should have had 3 pts.
346 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:22:34
Right now, I'd want Gordon to be greedy as he's learning. He will learn to make the right decisions. But to learn, he has to make mistakes. That's football, that's life.
347 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:23:17
The signings of Gray and Townsend for basically nothing have been fantastic and goes a little way to making up for the tens of millions wasted on dross the last 4-5 years. Special mention for Gordon as well - seems to be stepping up well when needed.
I wanted Benitez a couple of years earlier and thought wed missed the chance when he went first to the barcodes and then China. Its still early days but we seem to have a team set up to fight and put a shift in, and just as important with pace on both wings. Great result with our two best players not even available.
Early days still and just taking it one game at a time but I definitely feel we finally have a manager that suits where the club and the team currently are.
Going out of the EL may be a blessing given lack of squad depth. Can focus on getting people fit and just the league until end of the year. Maybe then give the FA cup a good crack.
Happy Sunday to all blues.
(Come on City!!)
348 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:40:16
Agree, Bill. For all United's possession, they didn't have the intelligence or ability to break us down.
349 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:50:28
Off out to watch this afternoon's football. I will be surrounded by grown men with cockney accents and Steven Gerrard shirts.
Koningsblauen (Royal Blues - Schalke) winning. Here's hoping for a good footballing end to the weekend.
350 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:51:06
There's a difference between constructive criticism and being a bastard, and your comments are redolent of the latter.
351 Posted 03/10/2021 at 13:55:03
My irony meter just broke
352 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:03:58
353 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:04:20
A lot of us were less than happy with the goal being disallowed. Criticise Davies' choice, criticise his hesitation. Fine. A hesitation which, I might add, is understandable given that he's had any freedom trained out of him by a succession of managers.
But calling him a coward, who's hiding at Everton from his "real level", at Tranmere or Morcambe, is going too far.
354 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:10:22
I think there is a big difference between supporting a team in the ground and posting on an forum. If any player seriously starts scanning the internet for comments about themselves I would suggest they have bigger problems to deal with.
I dont agree with Mikes opinion about Tom, I think its way over the top but to complain about toxicity and then call someone a bastard seems a bit rich.
355 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:10:30
But I haven't seen a single "greedy Gray" comment, and rightly so.
356 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:11:31
Make your mind up, Mick! "he knows shooting isn't his strong point". OK but also "he should have shot".
You don't rate his shooting ability but want him to shoot.
357 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:14:37
I'm sure that top level players don't read forums. But what's written on forums like this do inform the attitudes of some fans who go to matches. We ARE toxic towards our own players, we have been for years.
Perhaps I could have worded what I said better, but I still don't think that slating our players is either productive or helpful.
358 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:21:21
As for the offside goal, Davies panicked when he received the ball and therein lies the problem. He lost control of the ball and tried to make amends. Had he not panicked and controlled the ball he would have had the luxury of shooting. As it was, he made the best choice by laying it across to Mina. Mina cannot be blamed for being offside because Davies took too long to pick him out.
359 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:25:18
Again its an Internet forum, people have opinions they voice them. Some are measured, some insightful and some are downright stupid. But its how it works and has no bearing at all on how players perform. But it probably works better if you dont get personal, as Ive discovered.
Match day is a different matter and will undoubtedly affect some players more than others. I havent been to a game this season but last time I did, I didnt see Tom Davies get more stick for mistakes than other players. But crowds by their nature will voice their opinions if a player is not coming up with the goods.Personally I dont because I think it is counter productive.
360 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:59:25
They may be professional footballers but they are still human beings and make mistakes, and I doubt if there are any of us, including myself, that does not make a mistake, in a tension-filled environment.
361 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:00:25
In my opinion, your comments about Davies are totally over the top. I thought he played well after coming off the bench. Regarding the chance to shoot, his first touch gave him a tighter angle, and he passed to Mina in a better position, who he thought was onside.
The criticism of Ole not starting Ronaldo, didn't he bring all his big guns on when they were leading 1-0, so the plaudits should go to the outstanding performance of the injury-hit Blues.
362 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:08:07
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more. I could scarcely believe the stick young Gordon was getting. It was clear he was nervous, but he settled down and had a really good game.
Tom has been getting called a Championship player for a very long time, but here he was again yesterday, playing on the biggest Premier League stage... for yet another manager. Seven managers!
People can argue till they're blue in the face about what Tom did, but the guy spread wide, stayed onside himself, and his pass left a team-mate with an open goal. If Mina was able to just stay onside, we score a goal that would have been seen as City-esque and we'd have come off the pitch top of the league!
363 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:09:43
Yet him, his team and manager are always the first to moan and complain if another team do this to any Man Utd player. Hypocrite!!
364 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:17:25
The next 2 windows will be very interesting under Rafa the gaffer. At least he has come out and said he wants players who want to play for the club. Only about 8 dead-heads and piss-takers to get rid of then. Easier than done...
365 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:18:08
I thought Tom played pretty well yesterday but I think Mike is looking at the big picture, worse stats than our other midfielders, virtually no goals or assists in 150 games. If he was playing for Tranmere would we snap him us as a hidden gem? I doubt it.
366 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:30:23
367 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:34:33
Tom Davies is a good Premier League player who just made a wrong decision IMHO. To say he's not up to it is rubbish. Besides, apart from the Top 6, he would get in any team's squad.
368 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:40:39
369 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:42:23
The question is whether hes any good. The fact hes already here doesnt mean hes good any more than Stuart Barlow was good. He is here cause no one else has signed him and because of poor recruitment we have few options. If he was somewhere else based on his passing, tackling, speed, assists and finishing we would not go out and buy him. Also regardless of why he is how he is, if as you say hes had spontaneity coached out of him the end result is that he is not that good. Its not to belittle or bully him its just the reality.
370 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:00:20
Not enough praise for Rafa, in my opinion, for what he has done with a very thin squad. If Moyes pulled us out of the mire, could Rafa be the one, after four false starts, be the one to get us to another level?
371 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:05:56
372 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:31:02
Bill (360) - But surely people can criticise what they like, and not everything has has to be perfectly considered and balanced out (if that is even possible anyway). If we were all on here trying to attribute equal constructive criticism for every player in every game then every post would be 500+ words and ultimately pretty boring.
Rob (363) - That's the game though. If it was the other way round, and another team is breaking three-on-three on us on the halfway line then I would be happy if one of our players takes the ball-carrier out and swallows a booking for it. You can feel aggrieved when it happens to you, and still cheer when your team does it to the opposition - that's a given, no?
373 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:58:59
I don't! Last season was in an empty stadium with, on paper, a much stronger squad and against a weaker Man Utd team.
375 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:22:27
376 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:37:03
377 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:45:50
I think alot of people in the football world with far more footballing credentials than us mere mortals recognise that Tom has something.
In my opinion it will be a sad day if Tom Davies leaves.
378 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:02:08
Siri tell me what wishful thinking means
379 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:04:34
Doucoure is currently the best midfielder in the premier league. Viera esq !
Mina is a top quality centre back!
Gray and Townsend, if they continue like this are biggest bargains possibly in history !
Team spirit seems superb and the manager is going a great job!
Told you Im not getting carried away !
380 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:07:05
Connolly and Dowell won the U20 World Cup. It's about developing and improving not about how good you were at 16. Look at John-Paul Kissock.
381 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:16:35
I personally think coaching has taken so much of this “most natural” of movements out of the game. And that's why Everton's first goal yesterday, was so good imo, because it was a goal made by three players who all just used an attacking instinct, similar to our two goals against Burnley the other week.
I also think Davies's first instinct will have been to not fuck it up (I think football really is a confidence game, for 99% of footballers) whereas Townsend's instinct was to get it out of his feet, and score, befitting of the confidence he's currently playing with.
382 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:17:40
383 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:18:21
384 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:20:26
385 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:21:40
386 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:26:37
I agree. The last time I saw such a dominant performance but in a different style was Fellaini, also against Man Utd, when he absolutely terrorised them.
387 Posted 03/10/2021 at 20:29:33
Long may it continue! Also seems like he enjoys playing for us!
388 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:16:48
Glad to see Gordon is a serious squad player now. Given time, like Demarai Gray has had time to mature, I'm sure Gordon has every chance of being a very good player for the club.
Gray, the runs he made was reminiscent of Ronaldo at Old Trafford in his prime. Not sure if he's pinned to a 5 year contract, but time to get a new one drawn up.
389 Posted 03/10/2021 at 22:35:06
I think Tom Davies has been over coached over the years, not knowing his arse from his elbow at times. I think Benitez might still get the best from from him.
390 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:09:39
subheader - "Where Rafael Benítez has built a team greater than the sum of its parts, Ole Gunnar Solskjær lacks a coherent plan
There is a lot of good about Everton's performance in this one.
391 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:13:04
For the most part the defence was solid and the breaking from defence by Gray and Townsend was so good to see especially when we were missing two top offensive players.
Conceding a goal right on halftime is usually the kiss of death especially at Old Trafford but ''Rafa's '' team is a bit different from the teams we have had under Koeman, Silva and Martinez not mention Moyes.
Moyes brings his guys to Goodison next and I do hope DCL is fit as Rondon does look lost at times. Anthony Thomas had a fine game and is progressing well showing lots of confidence and that is something that Rafa must take some credit for as one can see the belief in other players too.
392 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:43:31
393 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:46:36
394 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:56:27
Best we keep it low-key on Ole's deficiencies. Antonio Conte is sitting out there available. We don't want a Lampard-Tuchel situation repeated for Manchester United.
Have to add that after the ManCity-RS game over here in the States on NBC, there was a discussion about Ole and is ManU legit as far as title contention. Within that discussion, the 2 Robbies did mention that while Ole kept out Christiano, etc due to the CL game before, Everton were missing key players and, at one point, had 2 18-year old's on the pitch. So the, "Missing key players" argument didn't wash. The difference, to them and what we know, was that Everton had a professional manager and ManU just had Ole.
395 Posted 04/10/2021 at 01:49:58
Goodbye moody and timid football.
Hello discipline and determined football
James can enjoy watching the World Cup in Qatar
396 Posted 04/10/2021 at 01:55:01
Iwobi may have been carrying an injury in the last 3 games and should have been rested.
We were playing with ten men v Villa, QPR and Norwich.
Then there's Rondon not up to match fitness so we were playing with 9 men actually.
Thats why we lost Villa and QPR.
Gordon came in and we were back to ten men and looked how we turned Manure into manure.
Imagine if Rondon is fit and running the channels like he always do.
We would have torn Manure apart
397 Posted 04/10/2021 at 02:21:07
For instance "one of our own" in 1970 included Tommy Wright, Labby, Colin Harvey, Jimmy Husband, Alan Whittle, Joe Royle and John Hurst - champions in their respective positions all. In the mid 80's we enjoyed Gary Stevens, Ratters, Mountfield and Kevin Richardson coming through as proven champions too.
Contrast that with this century.
As others have said, Tom Davies is no sprog. He's a seasoned professional by now and deserves to be judged as such. Raving on about him being "one of us" is no match when put against seasoned pro's regularly doing the business on the pitch, Saturday being a case in point.
Raving on about one of our own is symptomatic of the comfortable malaise that engulfs USMFF courtesy of Kenwright.
Some of us have raved on, and still do, about Barkley, Hibbert and Osman but unfortunately none of them were top-notch players in anybody's estimation, even when they were at their peak.
Successful clubs are not so accommodating of "squad-player" mediocrity spending years and years with them in the fantastical belief that one day, years into their careers, they may just prove to be first-class trophy-winning players. It just doesn't happen.
If Benitez can be arsed for a year or two in enduring the make-do-and-mend bollocks delivered to him by our inept owner/board I just hope he can instil real insight, to whoever soon (please) ends up at Finch Farm, players and coaches, as to what "professionalism" really means if you're remotely serious about winning a trophy as a founder member of the Premier League.
398 Posted 04/10/2021 at 03:00:13
399 Posted 04/10/2021 at 03:28:34
400 Posted 04/10/2021 at 03:59:24
Gordon's chasing, tracking back, tackling and pressure was important. He played like he loves the shirt.
I said to my kids in the first half, that I can handle losing to a better team if we're giving it a real go. And we did give it a real go.
401 Posted 04/10/2021 at 04:25:27
Mate you know more about it than me but IOn the “coaching it out of them” Id broadly agree but suggest City, Chelsea, RS and United have more progressive coaches who dont do that hence Fiden, Mount, Jones, TTA, Rashford, Greenwood etc.
My thought is the last good under 23 team we had eg Dowell etc were all graduates from Sheedys Under 16 and Sheedy was vocal in saying he tried to produce good players who could have a career versus just thinking of Everton. Williams from that group was interviewed in the RM era and said Unsie was judging him versus McCarthy on pass completion rate. Tom said similar about getting back into the team under Fat Sam. My thought? Rinosaur is of the old RAF Graham Taylor stats era and not fit for purpose versus the folks at City, Chelsea, Rs etc
402 Posted 04/10/2021 at 06:15:34
You can win trophies while accommodating academy players who are not quite top class, but do a very steady job. That has been proven since football began, but you cannot win trophies by spending 500m quid on players that simple don't come up to scratch.
There is an absurdity in continually battering away at youngsters whilst happy clapping managers and "superstars" who fail us season on season Talk about easy targets. Tom Davies should be way, way down the list of players being Hammered, If he was the only one playing badly, then fair do's, but he gets singled out for defeats and draws when he comes on with minutes to go, even after others have stunk the place out for 90 mnutes. It's fucking ridiculous.
I don't agree he has had his ability coached out of him. He was never the player who burst onto the scene against Man City, but he is indisputably a premier league player. The official records prove it.
What I do know is at 23 he has played for seven managers and every one of them have tried him in a different role. What player thrives under those circumstances ? It is however a measure of the way he is seen by these managers that they even ask him to do it. Those saying he is simply embarrass themselves by arguing against fact.
In a team that has been packed with one dimensional players for the past five years. I have witnessed superstar after superstar sat on the bench while Tom has been asked to go and do a job they couldnt be trusted to do.
Gift horse, Mouth
403 Posted 04/10/2021 at 07:01:23
The point being that if nobody else on the pitch thought it was offside then why do we think Davies should have? The size of his pay packet? Whether he should have shot, chipped the keeper, taken it up and nutmegged him or just played a cannon off the far post and bar is another question but we do seem to be overly harsh.
404 Posted 04/10/2021 at 07:46:32
Until he can make a role his own, be comfortable in what he has to do and has a manager who trusts him and vice versa, any player would struggle to beat of detractors. I agree with you he is a valuable premiership player who will hopefully in the current manager, have someone who matches his excellent attributes within the squad. Because frankly I think he has suffered as a result of so many changes.
405 Posted 04/10/2021 at 07:57:11
A great team will, more often than not, rarely have 11 superstars on the pitch. It's about the blend and the squad. Over the past 18 months Tom has really developed and, given his age, can still get better if he get's a bit of consistency and stability.
406 Posted 04/10/2021 at 08:15:49
407 Posted 04/10/2021 at 08:17:03
What Sheedy said makes sense, because Ive read on these pages that more kids playing in the league, have come through the Everton academy system more than any other club, so maybe our club coach kids a little bit differently, and the coaching maybe concentrates a little bit less on the technical side of the game?
408 Posted 04/10/2021 at 08:31:55
Id say footballers dont need to be loved, but tell me a person in any walk of life, who doesnt perform better when they feel good.
Going back to Townsend, someone every young player with aspirations of being a professional footballer, should be getting made to watch (honest opinion) right now, and would he have scored that goal last season? I suppose only Andros himself could tell us this!
It makes me laugh when people say hard work should be a given, because its what sorts the real winners out, from the players who can only do it sporadically imo, and its why Id rip coaching up for children, because with all that information going round their brains, then most of them forget that the best way to improve is by working hard and enjoying it imo.
409 Posted 04/10/2021 at 08:39:57
The other good thing about the Norwich result and the ManU performance is that Dominic and Richarlison will be sitting there looking at those performances, and thinking that they need to up their game and become more consistent goal scorers than they are now. If Townsend, Gray and Doucoure can consistently be scoring and creating assists, then that is what these 2 strikers should be doing more often for the club. I think this enforced break for DCL, Richarlison, and Iwobi even, may help bring out the best in them.
410 Posted 04/10/2021 at 08:54:46
Putting the shooting debate to one side I dont think he put a foot wrong. Had a couple of spats with CR7 and hit two cracking first time passes into the path of Gray.
He seemed to say something to the manager as they were coming off the pitch. Benitez put his arm round him and laughed it off. Maybe this Manager can help Tom play to his full potential.
411 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:04:19
Gray and Townsend have been fantastic so far and if they can keep their current levels of performance and with some of the injured players coming back after the International break there is no reason why we can't be in a very good place in the period leading up to Christmas.
At this point in time, only seven games in, the manager is proving to be an absolute success!
412 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:04:56
Strength of squad is even more important than when we won the league with two top class back up players, Richardson and Harper. No nonsense players who could be relied upon to come in and do a job when required.
Currently our two central midfield players pick themselves and Tom Davies and Gomes are the best replacements we have should they be required. Delph is a write off and Gbabim probably wont ever get fit enough to show us if hes any good. The question is although they are the best currently available could we do better, I think we could.
Hammering Tom is unfair based on one incident on Saturday, he should have scored himself, Mina should have stayed onside. Shit happens. But based on what I have seen under 7 managers hes never going to be more than a bit part player for us.
413 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:19:17
Agree with most of your sentiment. Got to disagree about Osman though ( think Ive been here sometime before!)
He holds the record for outfield PL performances, joint 10th all time appearances in a blue shirt ever, even played well enough to get into England squads. Scored goals, created goals and amazingly managed to do so when getting stick on Internet forums!
Was he a great player? No. Was he a good quality PL player? You bet.
414 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:32:08
I'll always remember going along to watch my son's team when they transitioned to 11-a-side. Now I never used to interfere, but I'll never forget one of the first training sessions. Always sticks in the mind and had me shaking my head. Not only were the kids too small for the pitch and the keeper too small for the goals, but they spent almost an entire hour and a half stood like statues as the coaches tried to talk them through formations, set ups and even playing an offside trap. Aside from the 15 minute kick around they got a the end, you could see the boredom and lack of interest!!
As a young lad in Germany, we would work in small groups and rotate around mini-sessions. I didn't know it at the time (too young), but they were getting us used to pressing, possession, ball work and yes, working us hard. But always enjoyment and some fun stuff at the end.
The tactics can come later.
To your point Graham. What if he'd have been surrounded by better players (Osman)? In a better team? From his perspective, I'd quite have liked to have seen Osman go abroad.
415 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:35:49
416 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:36:12
417 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:48:56
He was surrounded by Arteta, Carsley, Fellaini. Pienaar and Timmy. Id take anyone of them in a heartbeat.
418 Posted 04/10/2021 at 10:52:31
I was a big fan of Leon Osman and used to love watching him. Very technical player in my opinion. He created, assisted and scored. Still remember him leaping like the ultimate Alaskan Salmon in that City match in front of the Park End when we came back from behind to win 2 - 1. I think one of Lescott's first games back at Goodison and there is the 5ft 8" Leon out jumping the Manchester City centre backs on the edge of the box.
I guess I meant had he somehow have been put in a winning team, but granted, you could say that about most Premier League players I suppose.
Looking back, the Moyes era was the second coming of the nearly team.
419 Posted 04/10/2021 at 11:33:26
His close control ability and quick feet had him as a number 10 all day long
420 Posted 04/10/2021 at 12:25:22
Mina gets ahead of the ball, meaning Davies had to either shoot or run forward to change the angle keeping Mina onside, and if he could see him out of the corner of his eye, he shouldnt have been taking any chances imo.
We played that much 5-aside with the goals even smaller than ice-hockey goals, that it was usually the only way you could score, which meant it didnt even have to be drummed into us!
Ive just gone back to that picture and look at Andres Townsend, he definitely thinks we are just about to win the game
421 Posted 04/10/2021 at 13:04:25
422 Posted 04/10/2021 at 13:34:36
Much praise to Mr Benitez and the lads,with a bit of luck we'd have come away from O.T with all three points.
Just so pleased with the start we've made and honestly believe that we are only four players away from REAL greatness again...what do other Blues think?.
Onwards Blues...just keep it up eh!.
423 Posted 04/10/2021 at 13:45:36
A highlight reel can be misleading, as we've come to bitterly realise, but little Leon Osman's is up there with the best.
424 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:18:40
I really enjoyed the conversation we had in The Bramley Moore, and may I add that I respect your views given that you have experienced an insight into professional football.
My reaction to the disallowed goal was like that of many on this thread, 'Tom Davies should have taken a shot on goal.' Then, on reflection, I thought I have seen goals scored in a Sunday League game that would grace Wembley, and I have seen mistakes at Wembley that would embarrass a player at Sunday League level.
I have often stated on this site that I have never missed a goal-scoring chance, nor mistimed a tackle. I find it quite easy to criticise from the seat in the stand or the comfort of an easy chair. I can't remember when I reached that way of thinking, but I do know that I enjoy my football more as a result.
425 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:18:58
426 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:30:13
427 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:35:02
428 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:36:04
Osman made only two appearances for England. One was a 4-2 defeat to Sweden in a friendly where he played the entire game (Zlatan scored all four). The other was a competitive match against, ahem, San Marino.
429 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:38:59
430 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:43:14
It's why I constantly say that I'd love to see him coaching the kids at Finch Farm. He never made the grade because he was fast or physical, and probably would have come last in both categories, which meant he had to rely purely on his football brain, imo.
431 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:51:25
The main thing is Ive been happy watching Everton so far this season though, because we seem to have a lot more method, and every single player is working hard for his team.👏
432 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:59:07
I guess it depends on your definition of ‘top notch. He never established himself as an international player but played well enough to get caps. He had his limitations, pace being the main one but it didnt stop him contributing consistently over many years.
I would argue that if you are in the Top 10 number of appearances of all those that have pulled on the shirt in nearly 150 years you were probably doing quite a bit right.
433 Posted 04/10/2021 at 15:17:54
Mina has taken a lot of stick, I am going to jump to Mina,s defence, When Davies received the ball he miscontrolled it before recovering and then playing the pass, by this time Mina was already on his way, had the pass been played without the miscontrol, Mina was onside.
I think the miscontrol panicked Davies, which made his mind up to pass it to Mina, let us not forget, the penalty miss is still there in his mind, then you have over 70,000 and in that split second of miscontrolling the ball, he has to make an instant decision, he chooses to play the ball without checking if Mina was in front of the ball.
Had Davies taken it on and the goalie saved it, Davies would have been slated, it all comes down to very fine margins, and the extra second or so controlling the ball cost Mina being offside.
434 Posted 04/10/2021 at 16:54:16
435 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:19:05
Likewise, a friend of mine attended a Q&A session with the golfing great Arnold Palmer. Palmer was asked for his advice to young golfers; he said: "Thrash it, find it, Thrash it again'!
436 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:39:58
Of course, Tom shoulda known better.
437 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:50:28
Just one competitive match speaks volumes to me, against San Marino, right at the end of the lengthy Everton career you cite.
438 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:56:46
True or not, those two managers knew a thing or two about defending!
439 Posted 04/10/2021 at 18:07:33
Going back to Saturday's incident, was it really a clear and obvious error by the assistant not to give offside?
440 Posted 04/10/2021 at 18:16:51
Isn't that B+Ms version of WD40?
This has been some epic debate on the Mina / Davies goal but I think that.... nah, I think it's already been said about 40 times!!
441 Posted 04/10/2021 at 18:55:35
Sorry, I said 100% but that is incorrect?
442 Posted 04/10/2021 at 22:45:57
I never really liked or agreed with the saying, so, call me greedy but I want more. Hopefully by way of silverware at the end of the season.
As for the game, it wasn't a classic. But what we now have is what we have needed for many years, pace and an attacking threat.
Not since Mirralis have we looked like we had a genuine and constant threat in games. Good, pacey wingers that appear to be working hard for the team and carry a goal threat. Long may it continue.
I'm not getting carried away with many hurdles to come, but Rafa takes credit for building on Carlos defensive and well organised foundations.
Pass forward, move forward. Defenders defend more, create less. Midfielders move more and link play. Forwards create and attack more. Easy.
443 Posted 05/10/2021 at 02:10:08
Had the Carlisle game on, one against Boro, one against Man City, and even though we had a decent run around the 78-79, we never seem to feature as a main game, or as a rampant Everton, winning a game.
444 Posted 05/10/2021 at 02:29:36
I remember it all too vividly and painfully, from the Carlisle double defeats to being 2-up vs Sheffield Utd and collapsing.
What sticks out like a sore thumb is the quality of teams around us compared to us. We had Steve Seargeant, Telfer, Buckley and Dai the Drop in goal. The likes of Derby had McFarlane, Hinton and Gemmil. Same with Man City who had Bell, Lee Summerbee and so on, so it's no surprise we didn't make it over the line.
I always remember a last-minute winner (Latchford) vs QPR and never seeing the Street End go as crazy as that. As a kid, I really thought it was our year. It all shaped you into the Blue you are today really. Wouldn't change it for the world. Masochist or what, eh?
445 Posted 05/10/2021 at 09:05:32
You win as a team... and everybody in the team always seems to have no problem with that – even if they only got on in the 89th minute... and, therefore, you lose as a team.
For every shot that flies – or trickles – past the keeper, there were, supposedly,10 men in front of him to help prevent it.
I know, great in theory – but true.
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