Another loss for the team that just cannot score

Don't know why, but have a sneaky feeling that they may win tonight.

I expect some good balls in tonight and Calvert-Lewin to be doing his Carlo-inspired one-touch finishing. The midfield will have to be alert to allow the wingers more freedom to attack.

COYBLUES!

Ref has been terrible so far, but that’s no excuse for our toothless performance.

Not sure about the wisdom of playing Iwobi as a Number 10 after he's been so effective further back. Onana has been poor, pedestrian football will always get you caught out and that's exactly what happened before the goal. Garner should be on in his place.

Other than that,this match is wide open.

We must hope something clicks in the second half because that was terrible to watch. Come on, Everton, for God's sake show some nous and technique.

Be brave, Frank, don't wait until we go 2-0 down to make changes.

No replays of:

The potential Onana foul in the build up to their goal

The Calvert-Lewin offside

With reference to the offside, why was the whistle blown for this immediately? I'm unclear on the rules, I thought the phase of play was continued and then checked for offside?

Why was everybody so quick to dismiss the Gordon penalty? For me, he was fouled. Elsewhere on the pitch, it is an infringement and therefore should be no different in the box.

What exactly was Gordon booked for? Standing up for himself when attacked by a number of Newcastle players?

Why was Trippier not booked in this incident?

Seems the Amazon guys do not want to upset the future Newcastle gravy train.

Calvert-Lewin is his usual self when playing.

Gordon should have had a penalty.

Poor closing down resulted in their goal.

Iwobi trying to press and leaving big holes behind. Running around like a headless chicken.

No cohesion or passing through the middle. Piss poor and losing just about every 50:50.

Garner to replace Iwobi and stiffen the midfield.

It gets boring.

Two and half games without a shot on target.

Long season with a relegation battle — no doubt about that.

I often disagree with you but you're right, that was tedious. No quality in the final third, no Plan B when we realized our wingers couldn't get by their full-backs. Sloppy passes all over.

Just dull and hopeless.

It was as if one-nil was a good result, embarrassing,

How can a Premier League football team not have a single shot on target!?

Money we've spent again on these players, we sit there and talk up £50M Anthony Gordon, and you can't even muster an effort on goal.

Unless we find some goals from somewhere, then we are going down this season, unfortunately.

Second to every loose ball, to the point where we weren't even contesting by the end.

Horrendous passing through the midfield, missing wide open teammates by 3 or 4 yards and giving up open counter-attacks.

Laziness on the goal by a guy who has never shown laziness before. And an egregiously wrong sub by Lampard in taking out Iwobi for Garner instead of one of the defensive mids.

One attempted shot. One. Worst showing of the season by some distance.

We are in big trouble. We don't look remotely like scoring a goal and we look thoroughly ragged.

Something's gone badly wrong again - what a surprise.

The last three games were very tough fixtures considering where we are at so the results were excusable, but the performances weren't good enough – back to taking a knife to a gunfight kind of stuff.

Palace game gives us a better idea of where we are in this league. I suspect it's midtable… which represents progress, I guess.

Last season, we were lucky that there were 2 woeful teams who were relegated before the season started. This season, there are none, maybe except Forest.

We must learn how to pass the ball and retain possession past the half-way line. It's shocking how poor we are at this most basic of tasks.

It allows the opposition to push further and further forward as they can be confident we have no idea what to do with the ball when we win it. and we are thus under the cosh.

Unfortunately, this team just can't play 4-3-3. the wingers aren't good enough, the midfield not creative, and the full-backs are poor.

Expect a return of 3 at the back with Holgate returning, and maybe Iwobi at wing-back.

Mykolenko is not very effective atm, maybe Vinagre can offer something?

Garner should be starting, maybe for Onana, who is very raw and loses possession too easily.

Up top, we are really poor. Maupay should be alongside Calvert-Lewin. And we have to hope Gordon, Gray or McNeil can find their form.

Poor. Very very poor today.

There was absolutely zero intent to try and salvage that game.

A major rethink needed. We never, ever, ever looked like creating a chance. Very worrying.

Pathetic.

Too much sentiment as usual at Everton and loyalty to injury-prone players like Calvert-Lewin.

Since the Kenwright decades, the club has "Loser" engrained through it and it's obsessed with the past.

What doesn't make sense is the negative tactics of the current manager who was himself a sublime goalscoring midfielder who's won the lot.

Maybe he "Gets Everton" after all?

Sad part is, if we're all honest with ourselves, we knew the game was gone as soon as that goal went in. We were absolutely clueless in possession.

Gordon just looks like he wants to fight rather than play footy.

I see energy, enthusiasm, dogged determination. Lots of hard work.

I see no end product. None.

He can't shoot.
He can't cross accurately.
He can't control the ball.
He can't head the ball.
He achieves very little.

Why is he in the team week after week?

Relegation form once again. Lazy wasteful players.

No zip, no sharp passes, where's the movement and one-two's.

How many crosses were delivered for Dom? No crosses, no point in having him on the pitch.

Tedious, predictable, and a complete waste of time.

Someone suggested next 3 games are winnable...

Laughable.

I'd quite like to see Garner get a full game, and it was good to see Calvert-Lewin starting.

Other than that, and our solid central defenders, not much in the way of positives.

All-in-all, it's just absolutely depressing watching Everton 2022.

We thought it was bad in the Martinez era but what we'd do to see some of that attacking football now.

Very, very depressing tonight. Nothing positive.

Need some big changes fast to our approach to the game, a different team set up and a different way of playing.

The current offering is unacceptable; changes need to be made fast.

I said the exact same last season regarding Gordon.

Loads of hype for basically just running about a lot, a few deflected goals but pretty bang-average end product.

I just don't get the hype.

Defeatist, feeble, pathetic second-rate shite from an utterly naive fearful, cowardly nice guy coach. We clung on for a one-nil defeat and seemed happy to do so.

Cap doffed to anyone who can find anything good to say about that fucking steaming pile of shite served up by Frank and his vastly paid merry men.

Any other team in the Premier League would have beaten that bad lot tonight. Frank didn't even fucking try.

Write them off and move on and look to get points from the next four sides in and around us. People need to realise we are a Bottom 6 team and nothing more. Lower and temper your expectations.

We need creativity and another forward in January, not cast-offs from other clubs.

A relatively inexperienced right-back (more accurately, a right-wingback) shouldn't be the glue for any team, but we're so disjointed now that I'm beginning to wonder... or clutching at straws maybe.

Coleman has been a great servant but his engine has gone, so he can't push forward much. Gordon started the season well but is sinking into a non-entity on the pitch. Is it inconceivable that having no obvious replacement for Patterson is hurting us here?

On second thoughts....

Perhaps it's just because Frank Lampard has been found out with this season's set of players. He starts every game with the same formation and keeps it that way for 75 minutes, so I retract the Patterson question and suspect that this is the real reason.

According to our club officials, we are moving in the right direction on the pitch; that's all that matters, eh?

Fuck off. Fucking Clueless.

Nothing dangerous going down the wings like the Chelsea winning ways, with world class wingers. Which we ain't got.

Yet you persist? Why? Iwobi, Gordon, Gray…

Fuck off, Frank.

Toothless.

How many years have we been crying out for a top striker? How many years have we been saying we need to take teams on?

But no, we try and play possession football with a team that has a 40% pass success.

Calvert-Lewin is done, so our strikers consist of Maupay and Rondon. We will be lucky to finish 6th from bottom.

Go, Frank… and another bunch of has-beens.

This is a better squad than what Benitez had and Frank is hovering statistically just above the red bastard in the Everton managers' points table.

I honestly feel the "he's one of us" League of Gentlemen attitude holds us back on way too many occasions.

When we win the ball, we are starting to build on the edge of our own box and we fail to get past the half-way line. Midfielders try to beat men, lose possession and we concede like the goals v Man Utd and tonight.

The so-called holding players, Onana and Gueye, are ineffective. They don't protect and don't create. The wide players are lightweight and don't cross as we only have one forward in the box.

The forward is isolated. Gets no service. We fail to create chances. We fail to score.

If Lampard doesn't change it quickly, he will be sacked after the World Cup and the Club will get their first choice who Belgium wouldn't release.

I think Lampard is looking vulnerable, I am sorry to say. We should stick with him but he has to take a grip and be radical.

They can't pass to each other. Mistakes costing goals again. Players shirking out of tackles, Nobody shooting at goal.

Getting very worrying, this.

Certain players need dropping and we need to go back to basics playing 4-4-2 and try taking the game to the opposition for once!

Resigning Gana was a grave mistake... guess who was the culprit for that stroke of genius?!

Fed up of people tweeting about our amazing midfield when they've just signed and claiming we'll stuff the RS.

Every year, we are optimistic in August and wondering where the next point is coming from in October.

We're ecstatic that Idrissa Gueye is re-signing whilst clubs who used to be inferior to us are signing 30-goals-per-season forwards.

Just hope we get to 40 points. That's the sum of our ambitions these days.

The total inability to play an accurate through-ball by various culprits is staggering. Pro footballers failing to master a basic.

Then Frank proceeds to baffle me once again by taking off Iwobi... the one guy who looked full of confidence and was prepared to play a crisp pass and run all night.

How could he take off Iwobi and Calvert-Lewin when we needed a goal? Surely take off Gana or Onana and put on Maupay to play off Calvert-Lewin... or even better, why not start with two up top?

The guy (Lampard) goes like-for-like every game. He sets his team up to contain but he has not a clue on how to flip it to attack. They (the players) look clueless, their creativity and confidence gone.

This team is only lacking Patterson from its best eleven and Seamus had a good game.

Time after time, I watch and wonder how we can be so lacking in cutting edge, so gormless, so bad at passing, so afraid to shoot.

This is a flashback to last season. We are a bit tighter at the back (thanks to Coady and Tarkowski) but Christ we are shite.

Make no mistake – we are again hoping for three worse teams in the Premier League than us.

We are just cannon fodder. The last three games have been exactly the same.

I think Frank's record is as bad as Raffa

I can't recall more than one cross all game to Calvert-Lewin in the box.

But no... the same players trudge out for the second half and into the same positions.

Iwobi has been a revelation playing deeper in midfield... so what does Frank do? Firstly, he has him play right back and then as a Number 10 in the last two games.. knowing full well that he is absolutely headless when played further forward.

Then we get the usual predictably timed substitutions.. .

A goal down, and severely lacking in the final third... so what does he do? Takes off our striker... the mind fucking boggles.

I'm afraid Frank Lampard is fast losing any credibilty. The man has zero game management.

It's difficult to disagree with anything you say. God knows how long it will be before Calvert-Lewin regains full fitness but, even if he does, he needs someone to provide the support or alternative threat that Richarlison used to – and, as far as I can see, we don't have it.

He hasn't spoke all day, but his head just swivelled on his old neck, looked at me and said “I can see Lampard getting the sack.”

Palace at home and Fulham away, how confident are you?

Do you have the bollocks?

We need to hold our nerve and get a couple of wins on the board starting with Palace on Saturday. He does need to mix it up more though.

Holgate at right-back maybe, Vinagre coming in, Garner to start, Maupayand Calvert-Lewin up front, Gordon benched, a couple of youngsters getting a look in...

At the moment, Lampard seems to lack imagination.

That is a perennial problem at Everton, defending too deep.. Gueye naturally tends to play deep as well.

I thought with Coady and Tarkowski it would be better, but they both lack pace. Though they are a lot better than Keane and Mina.

Midfield pass completion rates and getting caught in possession do not help either. Add to that poor positioning and poor touches in the forward line and there is poor forward momentum down the spine of the team.

He cost £50k a week and brings nothing but a miserable face.

Should have left him where his play last year got him. Only Everton would be mug enough to waste desperately needed cash on this standard of player.

Both full-backs offered nothing. Gordon defended better than both of them.

I didn't see heart from Gordon except during his weekly mouthing off and getting booked. Every time he got the ball he took one look at the left-back and passed it back.

Gray at least tried to take on Trippier a few times although he failed miserably.

And does Onana always run slower than Bilyaletdinov? Walking-pace counter-attacks don't get you far...

And please do not say Pochettino, because he wouldn't come within a mile of the fucking place. The cold harsh truth is there isn't anyone who could turn us around.

We're suffering now because we've had years of mismanagement.

I'd send him back on loan to Preston.

And Everton was the punchline!

Frank is not experienced. Sadly unless results improve quickly, he will be moved on. Need a win before the World Cup break. If Frank stays on, it's a relegation fight all the way till June.

Night all.

Tarkowski and Coady were solid again.

Negatives:

Coleman – legs gone, can't get up and down the line like a modern fullback needs to, but will soldier on.

Mykolenko – the more I see of him, the more I think he's vastly over-rated. Offers nothing as an attacking full-back.

The midfield is loose, open and unbalanced. Gana is just a stopper, Onana is raw and Iwobi looks goosed at the moment.

Haven't seen enough of James Garner but trying to work out what sort of player he is. Does he sit and dictate play, is he box-to-box? Another one who doesn't look to have any pace.

Gray flatters to deceive and Calvert-Lewin looks a shadow of the player he never was.

And Anthony Gordon, another complete non-entity of a performance. £60 million? £100k a week...? Do me a fucking favour!

Palace at the weekend is a massive game. We need 8 more wins, and there are 9 or so winnable games left.

We had limited funds so we sorted out probably the worst defense the world has seen since the wolf showed up at the first little pig's straw house.

But what Frank can do with the midfield and attack is change it up. Try the little and large strikers, give Vinagre or Garner a start. Dare I say play Holgate at right-back?

We can't keep the same people and same line-up every week if they're playing badly.

Maybe a time-out on the bench would be good for Gordon or Onana?

Maybe we need to stop giving Seamus a free pass cause he was good previously??

Maybe Mykolenko needs a kick up the butt???

Lampard might well have little choice but his tactics and lack of versatility are clear for all to see. He milks it when we score a couple of goals at home like he's the Messiah punching the fucking air in front of the Street End. Well, he can fuck right off.

Imagine going all the way to Newcastle to sit in the gods and watch that shit and then get home at midnight.

If Frank hadn't a stellar career as a player, he would have been binned-off by now. He is out of his depth.

There's a lot of improvement this team needs to make.

Saturday, Frank's got to start Garner, Vinagre in for Mykolenko, 2 up top, and only 1 from Gordon, Gray or McNeil.

And some people said they wouldn't sell even for £60 million?

Sorry, I don't think Newcastle are great. They weren't great tonight as we were woeful and it was 1-0.

They've drawn half their games so far and despite Klopp's claims they haven't signed an all-star team, it's largely the group who were bottom last year at this time with a few clever additions.

Better than us? Yes, but not yet a good team

So we're asking Gray and Gordon to carry the threat for the team. And the slower we move the ball through defence and midfield, the less effective those two can be as they receive the ball with the opposition defence and midfield set in front of them.

Simple problem. Not so easy as a solution.

I'd like to see Garner, Gray, Gordon, Calvert-Lewin on the same pitch. Plus Patterson obviously. It's about as much attacking intent as we can muster. And Lord knows we need some attacking intent.

And probably add Dominic Calvert-Lewin to this list in a year or two.

In a similar position, some things are above football.

Good luck to you and your dad.

In other words, we are playing with only half a team so it's hard to compete with most of our rivals. It's no use calling for the manager's head as some of our players are underperforming.

Garner has shown enough to start the next game and let's pray Patterson is back soon.

I agree with others, play Maupay off Calvert-Lewin, and bring Garner in for set pieces and give him an extended try. I'd drop both Gray and Gordon. The former isn't of sufficient quality and the latter believes his own hype, should have bitten Chelsea's hands off for £45M – let alone £60M!!!!

Next two league games are critical to get us back on track.

Hope Frank Lampard makes some changes for the weekend, but I fear he won't.

Coady and Tarkowski are slow so we have to defend deeper. This means the midfield sits deeper and we have too far to transition.

Lampard needs to bite the bullet. Put Holgate in place of one of Coady or Tarkowski and get the team higher up the pitch.

"fran klam pard"?

Also the criticism of Coleman, he shouldn't be expected or picked to play 2 games in 5 days; Garner has to start Saturday.

How was Joelinton not sent off before Howe could even substitute him?

They had style...

They had grace.

The ref should have blown for a foul on Onana which led to their goal. Joelinton could have seen red in the first half and was immediately subbed off. No excuses as we still didn't threaten them.

Gordon playing against a walking wardrobe didn't even try and get past him once so frustrating. Iwobi didn't put a tackle in all match and Gray kept beating his man and then made the wrong decisions.

Rondon wasn't even on the bench!

This current system relies upon Iwobi, Gordon and Gray winning games for us. It's failing miserably. We need to change it now.

I would go with the same 4 at the back but with a proper 4 man midfield of Doucoure, Gana, Garner and Onana with Calvert-Lewin and Mauphey up top.

The way things are going we need to get Dele back for some creativity. I am running out of patience with Gray, Gordon and Iwobi.

If we keep him we'll be lucky to just avoid relegation and the only thing that will be our saviour yet again, will be our home crowd and maybe the addition of Coady.

We were getting rid of deadwood but have now added McNeill and Maupay and we still have loads more lingering in the background.

Mykolenko is unfortunately utter garbage and please god do not give Iwobi a new contract. If he's so good I'm sure we'll have lots of bids in for him so may get some money back….unfortunately we all know it won't happen and we'll end up stuck with him on another ridiculous contract.

Get rid of Calvert-Lewin and Gordon too if we could generate some cash because they're overhyped and overrated.

- weak away from home
- full back play terrible (Coleman dribbling then stopping and passing backwards every time again)
- midfielders like crabs
- wingers not crossing the ball
- strikers inexistent

We’ve got to pass the ball better, with intensity. I felt we were doing this much better earlier in the season - this was back to the bad old days. Pass the ball forwards! Get crosses in! Have shots! Look lively!!

Too many players look like they are only playing for themselves. Midfielders doing safe passes so that their pass completion stats are high. Strikers and wingers going through the motions.

For me, the manager needs to call a few of them out tonight. That attacking performance was as bad as it gets…

As I suggested last time out, relax and smell the manure.

He is an amicable character but after watching him take off Iwobi and Gray in this game I have come to the conclusion that he is tactically clueless. Iwobi has guile and is the fittest player in the club and Gray can shoot.

We were chasing the game, or we should have been. I thought they were their for the taking in that spell in the second half. Gordon (who was on another yellow) and Gana should have been replaced by Maupay and Garner.

Very concerning. I was hoping that we would be comfortably mid table this season. Our owner will be getting the jitters again methinks.

Our midfield create fuck all and you can see the confidence in this team just getting worse match by match.

No matter what Lampard says, every defeat effects the confidence, and that's three on the bounce.

I can not see anything other than another relegation battle this season unless something changes and fucking quickly.

The referee gave us very little and there is no doubt there should have been two sending off's for second yellows with Joelinton in the first half and Gordon in the second.

On the penalty appeal from Gordon, I thought there was a push on him alright but not enough to go down and we all know that with his over reacting , he has now gained himself reputation to put it mildly - we probably would have missed the fucking the penalty anyway.

Anyone think Pickford should have been on his line for the goal, had he been he would have got a hand to that!

Don't know why i'm so fucking annoyed because I expected nothing and nothing arrived !

Calvert-Lewin and Maupay up front to start; Garner as the sitting midfielder, Doucoure and Iwobi ahead of him; Gray and McNeil (I suppose) as wingbacks.

We have:

Palace - Home
Fulham - Away
Leicester - Home
Bournemouth - Away (Carabao)
Bournemouth - Away

This run will make or break our season as we then pause for the World Cup. Critical we come away from that run with at least 10 points in the league. Got to win 3 at least and not lose, and ideally progress in the Carabao Cup too.

That will make things easier for us after the World Cup.

Anything less than 9 tbh and we are bang in the shite again.

I'm sure Ian is winding us up. Saturday he wanted rid of Gueye for Tom.

Pretty sure Holgate has failed to prove himself under 7 different managers at centre-back so I very much doubt he's the answer to what's not even a problem – so I assume Ian is joking?

So which human sacrifice is gonna get it this week?

Well blow me down – it's the manager.

Have we tried that before???

Pickford
Holgate, Coady, Tarkowski
Iwobi, Gana, Garner, Onana, Vinagre
Calvert Lewin, Maupay.

Push Onana higher up the pitch.

Face facts. The central defence has no pace so we are defending deeply and can't transition. Coady and Tarkowski are clearly better defenders than Holgate but we need to move higher up the pitch.

It's a question of balance. We aren't creating chances. If we put some pace in the defence we start attacks higher up the pitch.

Godfrey, Tarkowski and Coady as a back 3, then have Patterson and Vinagre eiither side.

Onana, Garner and Doucoure or Gana as a three in the middle with Calvert-Lewin and Maupay up top.

Pace at the back with Godfrey, attacking wingback, and three across the middle to strengthen midfield.

Gray and Gordon could then be used from the bench.

Maybe we have to take a step back from the bitter disappointment though. A couple of weeks ago, we were on the right track and optimistic. All it will take is a win on Saturday and we can get some confidence.

It's too soon to panic and hit any nuclear buttons. The next two games are winnable so I agree with the comments of getting behind the team and giving them a chance to get back on the right track.

How are they infinitely better? It's mostly the group they had under Bruce. They were better, yes… but they're not Jedis yet.

Ian,

Where do the Holgate own-goals and mistakes figure in that balancing act?

Holgate improved massively and did well last season.

The midfield is woeful. Onana and Gueye hardly ever play a forward pass while Iwobi was a headless chicken all night.

No crosses from the wingers while Calvert-Lewin wasn't fully fit. Maupay is not good enough to be even a stand-in.

Frank needs to call himself out and Onana is not our forward passing source so no he should commit further forward only when possession on the wing is producing crosses into the box.

Beyond that, Frank has to take some risks and I think he now will.

Against all the present evidence, we should be aiming for 10 points from the next 4. The possible blessing from that shambles tonight is that it may bring about a crucial change of mentality.

Our last three games have been Manchester Utd home, Spurs away and Newcastle Utd away. I would suggest that most bottom-half teams, which we undoubtedly now are, would be expecting at the very most 4 points, if we had a good game at home, but in all probability just 1 point, and potentially 2. I'm not trying to be defeatist but just realistic.

I had higher expectations earlier in the season and had been pleasantly surprised by some of our results in what has been a difficult run of fixtures. After our difficult start to the season, which shouldn't have been difficult, it was subsequently scuppered by a lack of signings prior to the beginning of the season, and the lack of a striker.

I think there were plenty of chances created in some of those early games and the general consensus was that, if we had a striker, we might have a fair few more points on the board.

So, what has changed? Well, I'll tell you: it was a totally pointless Nations League match that changed everything for us.

Patterson was making a name for himself as an all-action full-back, with great ability going forward, the ability to pass well and play intelligent balls over the top, as well as showing a continual improvement in his defending, with some of the most impressive statistics in the Premier League.
With his injury and replacement in the team by Seamus Coleman, the entire dynamic of our team has had to change, to accommodate for Coleman's weaknesses.

Please don't take this as an assault on Coleman. He has been a great servant to Everton, and in his pomp, arguements could be made that he was one of, if not, the best right-back in the Premier League (although he has never really had a decent cross on him).

However, Coleman was basically finished as a Premier League right-back three seasons ago, bar the odd 1 in 3 or 4 game mini-renaissance, that suggested he could still do a job for us. The fact that he is playing today, as the replacement for Patterson, is beyond a joke!

Coleman no longer has the pace or strength to play against any Premier League winger. Iwobi has been given the job of supporting him, to try and shore up that area of the pitch. This means that the player who was our most attacking threat from the middle of the pitch, creating more chances than any other player in the Premier League, now has a position of right wing-back, in front of the ineffectual Coleman.

He has no ability to influence the game in a positive way; certainly not anywhere near the extent he was able to influence games from the middle of the park, where he was playing when Patterson was in the team.

Even when he does venture forward, unless a meaningful attack comes out of it, we inevitably get attacked down that side and their winger and full-back get a free pass against Seamus.

I fully believe therefore that, with Patterson back in the team and Iwobi restored to a proper central midfield position, we will return to playing some of the more positive, exciting football that we were beginning to see. It gave us all some hope for something more than a season just avoiding relegation.

Until then, now that he is back to fitness, whilst he isn't the greatest right-back in the world, I would much rather see Holgate in at right-back until Patterson returns to fitness. His pace and strength might just enable Iwobi to return to central midfield and bring back some better results for the team.

Thank you, Seamus, for your service over the years. You have been a stalwart and a legend. Whilst I'm sure you didn't anticipate playing so much this season, and have manfully stepped up when we haven't really had any other options, I'm afraid it just won't cut it any more

I would make four changes for Palace.

Vinagre at left back for Myko, who has done a fine job defensively but whose passing has deteriorated to the point of being hazardous.

Doucoure in midfield for Gana, who was our best player today by a mile (despite the one mistake) but needs a break.

Garner for Onana, a great young player but whose error was so egregious he must sit -- losing the ball and then making no effort to cover back and watching his man left all alone to score was inexcusable.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but Holgate at RB for Seamus, who was always a half-step behind today and got away with a horrendous clearance error the likes of which he hasn't made in years.

(Still can't believe I'm recommending Holgate to start a game...)

I pretty much am on the same page. Onana especially is young and inexperienced so nothing wrong with taking him out of the firing line for a bit. We did it with Fellaini and he didn't do too badly.

Read the fekkn game, and scan the pitch, basic rules at grass roots football, at each line of the pitch.

But since Patterson, has been out, the balance and offensive impact is half edge, but that's my view.

Belief, fight, and courage are the ingredients, this squad needs a top shot of, for a victory over Palace.

No better reason to beat them again, after our penultimate game last season.

UTFT!

As one of the more doom-laden contributors on here, I believe we have no option but to hold our nerve now. I don't think Lampard is a Gary Neville or Roy Keane, he can get through this and, as fans, we do have to rally once again.

For me as much as I like his spirit, he’s the opponents 12th man..

The gift that gives, and sadly is nailed on, each game in terms of his passing.

For me, this was there last season but playing more football and passing, this season, his passing skills, are looking poorer, every game, imho.

Imperative we get 7 points out of the pre-break games.

Poor everywhere – including the dugout.

We can take heart from that. I think we'll see a very different approach on Saturday.

That's a good point. I don't see those two going into their shells and hiding.

No apology, no embarrassment – just be difficult to break down and maybe give it a go in the last 10 minutes. There is a core that will come together but we simply have to minimize the setbacks and put together a few performances that improve our possession and attack.

It's on Frank at this point.

I just don't understand the thinking behind taking off our only creative player when we're chasing the game. Genuinely no idea what Frank's plan to get a goal back was.

Grim, but you know, we're all used to that.

Gray and Gordon should be dropped. At the very least, either one, take your pick, should be benched.

Maupay offered nothing. Calvert-Lewin got nothing from either winger! Whole game!

Garner should start; Gana and Onana, neither are capable of a forward pass. Too slow to pick up loose balls. And what's happened to Iwobi?

Too many things not right… it's hard to find any positives, so I won't bother.

I said it after the Spurs game, Seamus cannot do what is being asked of him. It's reaction times, it's the ability to match a sprinting winger... he cannot go forward and get back. It's Tony Hibbert all over again.

We are so thin on the ground, we have to change tactically... even the kids would probably offer more.

The shape has to change, the tactics too. Back to the drawing board.

One last point: given the basket case of a club Lampard walked into, I cannot agree his position should be at risk. He and his team have cleared out the crap. What he has left should be enough to form the basis of a decent squad.

But we do not have 22 good-quality squad players... we have possibly 14 or 15, but not all in the right positions.

That's the problem; tactics can cover only so much, but a lack of quality will always leave you exposed.

Hang in there...

There won't be thousands of fans outside Goodison: no flares, no Richarlison and no super hyped-up crowd inside to get us going against Palace this time around… so it's down to the manager to turn us around. Make no mistake about it – another loss and dismal performance and the crowd will turn on them all.

At the moment, we have a serious lack of urgency and ability to keep the ball. We are 11 games in but still playing last season type football.

Come on Frank. You're better than this (I think).

Tony #169, great point. They were both excellent today, although neither escaped the "suicide pass" virus that infected everybody. Tarkowski's early ball through the middle was a cover-your-eyes moment.

What was with all the diagonal balls to Gordon when he was playing against someone 6ft 6in?

Our attack is built around hoping one of Gray's headless chicken moments accidentally works.

Piss poor from the manager – the continuous late (and often wrong) substitutions are infuriating.

What on earth does Doucouré have to do to get some minutes? This team should be playing better.

2) Lampard should have never gotten the manager job.

3) 8 more wins won't be enough to save our skin.

4) Gueye has past it. So has Coleman.

5) We should have sold Gordon to the first bidder (Tottenham?).

6) We wasted lots of money on McNeil and Maupay (duds).

Your philosophy: my way or no way, playing two wingers, whether they make an impression or not (and, by the way, two shit wingers). Plus a headless chicken (Iwobi) in the middle and a midfield who cannot keep possession of the ball.

Gana Gueye is suddenly a bad player???

In reality, a forward depends on quality service, whether that be Calvert-Lewin or Maupay same applies. Therein lies our goalscoring problem.

1. No creative midfielder (except Iwobi) to create an opportunity for a forward to score.

2. Two wingers whose main skill is running at speed but first instinct is to try and find a chance to take their own shot at goal. Sometimes it works… but often, if they lifted their heads, they would see someone in a better position.

For me, Calvert-Lewin or Maupay – there is no difference, with Calvert-Lewin the better on high crosses.

I would suggest Garner is worth a go, possibly instead of Gana, and I would drop Gordon as he has been very poor recently (Maybe contract talks going to his head?)

Tarkowski and Coady are certainly upgrades on Keane and Holgate or Godfrey but they have the same limitations. So, although we should see less errors from them, their lack of pace limits our ability to push up to control games.

Gana is better than Allan and Onana better than Doucouré, so our midfield has some additional pace and technical ability from a defensive point of view.

In summary, we should concede less, but, without Richarlison, probably score less.

Lots to work on, little to work with.

Richarlison is a big miss but, when Calvert-Lewin is fit, we'll improve. And hopefully get a striker in January.

I still trust Frank to get it right, even if you Jeremiahs don't.

Oh and remind me, what has Pochettino ever won in the Premier League? Ah yes… nothing, zilch, zero.

He'll be cosied up on the BBC pundit sofa soon enough where he'll remain for the rest of his ‘working' life. I imagine he'll be great at that.

He's not a football manager or coach though, he hasn't got the minerals or the motivation to be successful at it.
It takes a special kind of obsessive lunatic to be a good manager, and he just ain't it.

Nice fella, even if he does vote Conservative.

Where we have improved is in terms of the margin of losses. We are not capitulating in matches the way we did last season. This said, I was disappointed last night by our seeming reluctance to move the ball and men forward with any consistency.

Too often, the instinct of our players was to play backwards in safety-first fashion. At no point were our midfielders able to stamp their authority on the play. They were not helped by a lack of control on the part of Gordon and to a lesser extent Gray. Playing the pair of them at present feels like a luxury.

The squad and manager must now regroup and ensure a blip in results does not become a permanent downturn. The approaching fixtures offer an opportunity to do that.

Holgate would be the answer to pace at the back, but he is error-prone and doesn't seem that confident of his place coming back from injury.

Lampard has the formation right but he needs the players to be pushing higher up the pitch. Players playing deep and not looking to get forward, wayward passes, and the ball coming back early due to poor control and positioning. All of this contributes to the players staying comfortable in positions not to get caught out.

I don't think Frank wants this, but what do you do with a large percentage of players not passing and moving correctly?

Quite simple really: if you can't pass to your own teammates, you won't create chances. If you don't create chances, you don't score. 180 minutes away to Spurs and Newcastle and not one shot on target.

But still the same players picked, week-in & week-out. Gray's and Gordon's crossing is rubbish; Maupay can't hold the ball, loses it every time.

Why did we play £20M for McNeil?

Lampard is under pressure and rightly so. We must win at least 2 of the next 5 games.

We may be harder to score against, but the manager and coaching staff have to set up better from midfield going forward. If they can get the midfield to channel the ball better, put more crosses in, and get midfielders arriving in the penalty area to support the attack, we might score more goals.

Stanley Mills must be worth a start – bags of skill and energy – with Garner Onana and Doucouré.

Calvert-Lewin and Rondon or Maupay up top.

My personal view is that we have to give Frank time as I'm sure he will get things right. He inherited one hell of a mess, so we shouldn't expect him to turn things round at the drop of a hat.

Have faith, everyone.

Beat Southampton, beat West Ham Utd, draw with Liverpool, and suddenly we are Top 6 contenders.

Lose to two Top 6 contenders and an in-form team and we have to fire the manager. If I wanted to see a manager merry-go-round, I would support Watford.

Yes, today's performance was really poor, playing against an in-form team that simply battered us, and that is shown in the scoreline. What was it? 5-0... 4-0... what 1-0!!!

Anyone who watched us last season knew that we would be aiming for between 10th and 14th and there will be more of this to come, but bringing in another out-of-work manager will not change things as he will just want to buy more players in January to play to his system.

Lampard is here to stay and with his DoF they are starting to get the playing side organized, from the academy through to the first team; another manager will want to change it to what he wants and we are back to Square 1.

It's difficult not ranting a raging with as many expletives as I can think of but the only one I hurt is myself as no-one in the club will read them. I, like many others, have seen worse than this and they have won the game. But, even if it is hard to digest a performance like today's, I don't believe it is a sackable offense yet.

Newcastle is a difficult place to get a positive result, it is impossible to get one when they have 12 men on the pitch with one disguised with a whistle.

So – endless unsuccessful managers, coaches, medical staff, scouts, massively expensive dead-wood players aside – how come so many Toffees still fail to see and vilify the hand in the boardroom whose fingerprints are still, after decades, all over our ongoing woes?

We have three central midfielders that cannot pass forwards (not that there is anybody to pass to) and two ''wingers'' that make no forward runs… and when they do get onto the ball, they run into blind alleys.

We must be the only team in the top flight where the opposing manager could plan a formation to use against us and not bother with a goalkeeper.

I knew this season was going to be a struggle but I could actually feel myself going red with embarrassment watching that at home on TV.

Really, really disappointed – not with the loss so much, but with the complete inability to work as a unit and the lack of forward runs in the attacking play.

We seemed to mess around at the back a lot, seemingly waiting for some sort of way out, which just allowed Newcastle to get forward to hassle the defender before letting Pickford hoof it forward.

When we did play through midfield, there didn't seem to be any plan of attack, it was all ad-lib. Occasionally Calvert-Lewin would properly time his jump but there was nobody in support.

If Gordon and Gray are going to play touchline wide on opposite sides, then one of them has to move into the middle when it comes down the opposite flank – otherwise, it is all a waste.

Coleman is not the player he was and Mykolenko looks like he's been told not to wander too far forward; shades of three at the back?

Newcastle seemed to move and play the ball a lot quicker than we did while we just sat back in our own half which is what we were doing when they scored.

I'm getting to the point of thinking either Garner or Davies should replace Gana as we need more midfield movement and creativity. Then an extra striker with only one of Gray or Gordon; we have to find some sort of goal-scoring threat which tonight was only a Calvert-Lewin header over the bar from a corner. We really do need Patterson back.

And again, the inconsistent refereeing. The handbags melee just before half-time when Gordon was pushed in the back in the penalty area and the defender put his hands up in a "not me" gesture when he obviously had and at the restart Tarkowski does the same thing on the halfway line and is penalised. Are there two sets of rules depending on which part of the field play is at? Had the VAR gone home or just didn't see or comment on it?

Similarly, Calvert-Lewin was properly booked for a mistimed sliding tackle but their players did the same on several occasions which not all resulted in free-kicks – never mind a yellow card.

It's all beginning to look like there are teams that the management think we have done well against if we only lose by the odd goal rather than offering anything in the way of actually outscoring them. Something has to change; otherwise, we shall only survive by getting results against 7 or 8 clubs – which really is depressing, no matter how much an improvement it "looks" over last season.

Our MotM? No, sorry didn't see one.

We are not picking up 9 or 10 points from the next 4 games when we have taken 10 points all season, we need to be realistic here.

It wouldn't shock me if Palace beat us Saturday – a big strong well-drilled outfit, they don't give much away. If they got a point at Anfield, they can get a result at our place.

Fulham away – again, another team that carries a threat; again, can we actually look like hurting them?

Until January arrives and we somehow pull out two attacking options that make a real difference, I honestly don't see this team cutting the mustard.

I do think though that Lampard needs to be a bit more adventurous with his team selection. I would like to see Vinagre, Garner and Doucouré start on Saturday.

As Jim says, it will be difficult to watch until at least January and we'll have to keep clean sheets if we're to earn any points.

Talk of sacking the manager (or anyone else) is ridiculous right now… we need to support the team and get them up for the scrap.

Now, we have 4 so-called easier games, and these players will be expected to turn it on. Not sure this is a great plan, chaps!

Absolute garbage football, just what the hell is Lampard thinking?

Scrolling down the comments, I understand that:

1. Sack the manager (again)
2. Mykolenko is useless
3. Our centre-backs are useless
4. Our two midfielders are useless
5. We should have sold Gordon
6. Iwobi is useless
7. Bring back Martinez

All in the space of a few weeks. I get it sounds like a frustratingly poor performance but to have the lynch mob out feels extreme.

Some good points on sitting deep though. Players or managers aside, it's been something I've been calling out for years. We've been doing it for years.

Palace at the weekend. That's more important now.

Gray continuously turns back towards Mykolenko. Onana is playing too deep and loses the ball too easily. Several times last night, we had players on the ground having lost the ball while the opponents countered.

Frank went there for a point, just like he did at Spurs. We got what we deserved. No ambition, sloppy play and poor management.

The last 3 games have been against teams that should finish Top 7. Frank knows that we can stomach not getting much from them. Now the acid test. Fixtures that we can win.

We will soon know whether we can enjoy a season of mid-table obscurity, or another relegation dogfight. Personally, I fear the latter.

I would like to see Calvert-Lewin and Maupay up top together. Sacrifice one of our wingers and play 4-4-2.

If any of the other 19 clubs lost their star man or talisman and got £60 million they would've focused on getting front men in – not some one-footed slow midfielder for starters.

Oh, and all these winnable games coming up – how does that work without shooting. Sorry about the rant but I went all the way there – against my better judgment. Never learn, eh?

People calling for him to be sacked need to get a grip, and fast!

We've lost to two sides challenging for the Champions League (could have taken something from both games) and a team that have only lost to Man City and Liverpool at home recently!

We have got to give the manager time, a few transfer windows etc. This is the best side we have had in a few years, we have young players now too that will get better. It will grow and, with two or three players more, they will be a very good side.

We dominated a lot of the game last night; our final pass and shots on target (0) is what we need to work on.

But this is better than the shower of managers, rubbish football that we had to put up with in recent years.

On top of that, Thelwell seems to be doing a great job behind the scenes at the Academy.

This is a massive rebuilding job, it's started, think the transfer window was the best we have had in years, especially as FFP was a factor.

Yes, we lost three games in a row but we could've got something out of those games; in previous years, there was no fight, we would've lost easily.

We are not Top 6 level yet but we are for the first time heading in the right direction.

No chance of Everton ever starting a football match with two strikers.

That would be like walking up to Dracula and putting the crucifix you hold in your arse pocket.

The fear of losing at Everton so greatly outweighs the will to win by some miles.

You can see in our style of play that the fear of losing is apparent; actions speak a thousand words.

That's why we only start having a go when the board for injury time goes up.

We take off Iwobi, who can play a forward pass, and bring on a forward in Maupay who is better suited to a through ball than Calvert-Lewin.

The mind boggles!

Maybe Frank also has to look at getting another coach in for the forward line as Clement's record and Jones's and Cole's experience wouldn't suggest this is their strong point. Need to try something as we're toothless, predictable and dull.

We had 4 more points this time last season and, upto now, we were playing better in the forward positions. We would have been relegated last season.

Here's a question: why have Arsenal pushed on but we haven't? Is it really all down to the manager? Why are Everton so scared to play youngsters?

I'm bemused because, at the beginning of the season, I thought "Look out, here we go!" On paper, better midfielders, better defenders… but we are (in my opinion) worse than last season – and points on the board say the same.

Frank Lampard has a poor win rate... very poor.

Paul (@ 200) has done my talking for me: bring in Vinagre, Doucoure and James Garner – they will at least add some energy that is lacking in parts of the team. Keep Gana in midfield to organise and direct.

Frank – if you don't do anything else in your team talk, show them a large photo of a goal frame so they know what to aim for.

And put Stanley Mills in the squad, he knows and aims for the goal and he has the guts to have a go. Have you got the guts to give him a chance, Frank?

Hopefully the next couple of weeks will show that we rank somewhere between 11th and 14th.

We got fuck-all from the ref at Spurs but last night's ref was a real total homer.

Firstly, there was contact when Gordon went down in the box and all forward players worth their salt will go down. Not a fucking hope. Now the melee after that incident was shocking: two defenders and their goalkeeper pushing and shoving Gordon and, fuck me, Gordon gets booked. Why? No VAR. Why?

Secondly, our midfield 3 got physically battered, mostly by that thug Joelinton. Once teams start putting it about and you have a ref who is doing fuck all about it, then players like Iwobi – who can't tackle for shit – will just disappear.

We as supporters need to get behind the team on Saturday. The atmosphere at Newcastle ensured the ref became a 100 percent homer. Constant booing of Pickford and continual mocking of Gordon and Calvert-Lewin. The ref gave us a yellow for any physical contact, yet Newcastle did what the fuck they wanted. Fucking Twat.

Oh yeah, I understand it and I have seen it numerous times at Goodison, ref's can be governed by the hostility of the home crowd. So let's stop knocking the team, they did their best with absolutely no help from the ref. None at all.

Goodison. Saturday...

Anyway, on reflection, and if you're reading this at Everton, at least have a fucking go!!! 1 shot on goal. Jeezus wept...

We need to be far far more pragmatic, get up the pitch, with more players and stop leaving massive gaps everywhere.

If you don't put players in the opposition box, you won't cause problems. Just get in there and make a nuisance of yourself. That's all Klopp does, and he's built a career on it.

I suspect many of these brilliant fans will have also been at the Spurs game at the weekend as well. Just a pity that their magnificence isn't replicated on the pitch, and how the fans keep singing watching yet another poor display is astonishing.

I have been banging on, on TW for a few years complaining about the lack of goals in this team, and still this problem hasn't been addressed. Until it is addressed, this team will struggle to win games. I really believed when Lampard joined we would see a change and he would improve our goal tally but, if anything, he has made it worse.

This summer we lost last season's only regular goalscorer, who – along with Pickford – was the main reason we stayed up last season. So how did Frank address this problem? He signed 2 centre-backs, a left-back and 4 midfield players and eventually signed a striker.

Now the 2 centre-backs are better than what we had, but one of the biggest complaints last season was, because our 2 centre-backs lacked pace, then we couldn't play a high line. But neither Coady nor Tarkowski have any pace, so this still doesn't allow us to play a high line.

Our 4 midfield players all lack goals in their game, so again this hardly helps in the goalscoring department. Then, with only days left of the window, we sign Neal Maupay, a 5ft-7ins forward, and play him as a lone striker.

I really can't believe that anyone thinks we have improved from last season, as I struggle to see where the improvement is in this side.

After the match, Frank said in his interview he was pleased with the performance... Really? We had no shots on target and never ever looked liked getting level once they scored.

This is the second game without a shot on target, and I think we must be the worst team in the Premier League in putting consecutive passes together in the opponent's half.

I think Frank has to change this, and quickly, because, if the results don't improve prior to the World Cup starting, I think Moshiri will be very tempted to replace him.

Look, I think the majority of us like Frank and want him to succeed, but results need to improve – and quickly.

I'm with Jim Bennings here, Palace will be a tough tough game. Fulham are a better side than us (yes, Fulham); ditto Bournemouth.

The only game I can actually see us getting something from is maybe Leicester, and I bet they'll fancy their chances.

As Jim says who's going to score the goals for us? We create virtually nothing. I can't remember De Gea, Lloris or Pope having a save to make in 270-odd minutes of football in the last 3 games.

We all know the reason why he's playing, simply because Nathan Patterson is injured. I'm sure Seamus would rather be on the bench knowing there is an excellent deputy on the pitch, but unfortunately that's not how it works in football. Injuries are part and parcel of the game.

I also think it's time to give Anthony Gordon a break from the first team. This summer's transfer stuff clearly went to his head, so a period out of the team might do him good.

I have got faith in Frank Lampard to turn this season around. He's pretty much sorted out the defence with two solid centre-backs, and two young full-backs who will be excellent players in the future for us. The midfield is probably the best it's been for a while, though maybe time to give James Garner a starting place.

The problem is up front. Do we seriously need two wingers on the pitch? Maupay is not a target man, he would be much better feeding off Calvert-Lewin. However, a new forward should be acquired in the January transfer window, which is only six games away! Amazing to think when we're only in the middle of October.

Anyway, that's my first proper post posted!!

Midfield is bereft of creativity. Come January, we must have the aforementioned players lined up and ready to sign; otherwise, we are going to be in a relegation scrap again.

The defensive side of things is fine.

Last night's dismal performance was predictable because there has been no attacking momentum since the beginning of the season at home against Chelsea.

Most of Everton's signings this season are defensive-minded players who will give the ball away in dangerous situations because of their limited passing abilities – no matter how much effort they put in.

Yet, most Everton fans believe they can fix the attacking problems during the next transfer window, which is the first sign of panic amongst the fans, when the problems should have been addressed before a ball was first kicked against Chelsea.

Win, lose or draw it's the same stuff being posted. A real negative tone in each and every thread.

Pick a player, any player, and the negative comments outweigh the positive. It's not just this game but any game. Lampard has been with us for 9 months and the knives are out.

I generally enjoy ToffeeWeb for the varied opinions on most aspects of the club but, after 3 defeats, some of the contributions are pathetic. I tend to hone in on the positive or more thought-out posts and try not to bite at the more extreme negative posters.

In any form of sport there are winners and losers. Sport is to be enjoyed.

Maybe the admins can have a special section for the negativity, a moaners corner if you like. Somewhere for people to have a good old rant about how bad a player is even though they didn't watch the game. You all know those sort of posts.

Roll on Saturday and a 3pm kick off.

I was there last night in the away end, up in the gods, so had a good view of how we set up. We look so easy to play against, I'm afraid, and teams have worked us out very quickly.

If you stop the two wide forwards, we basically have no creativity. Gordon and Gray stood static right on the touchline most of the game. No runs inside to support the striker or at least get close to him. I'm afraid both aren't good enough.

Newcastle were there for the taking with some key players out last night. We had the ball plenty but couldn't do anything with it.

Go 4-4-2, Gordon needs dropping, Garner needs to come in and give McNeil a run on the left wing.

I worry for these next run of games because we will find out how good we are, and I'm afraid the answer is "not very".

We must get some stability in the club and Frank has to be given time and allowed to make mistakes.

Maybe it's no coincidence that our attacking threat has diminished since Patterson was injured?

It appears that some players need reminding of the need for energy and purpose. Garner is due a start and I would love to see Mills given a chance but not at right-back against Zaha!

Get behind the team like the away fans do and stop the constant bitching about the club. Give Frank a proper chance – calls for his sacking are really a bit childish.

“Maupay is not a target man, he would be much better feeding off Calvert-Lewin.”

I certainly do and also add that Calvert-Lewin would probably be more effective if he was feeding Maupay.

1-0 down and we swap them and take off the only player in the side who can pick a pass???

We will be entering the “There is plenty of games left to play” period shortly.

Our squad is alright. We have stopped leaking goals from set pieces, we have options, in midfield, and we actually have options up front. It's wearing a bit thin with me.

"I suspect they don't support the club anyhow."

We do not tolerate anyone questioning the Evertonian credentials of posters, sorry.

A reminder, this is an Everton forum for Evertonians. End of.

Most of the subs on the bench for Man Utd, Spurs and Newcastle Utd would make our team. Throw Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea subs into the mix and it sums up his predicament. You can't make a silk purse etc comes to mind.

Thankfully we've got two very good central defenders – without them, we'd be well up the Swanee – or is it down?

You make some very good points and observations, so you are obviously a true blue and watch every minute. A bit unfortunate the last two games before last night not to at least get a draw.

However, last night's stats are a bit embarrassing: 50/50 possession, Barcodes had 16 shots to our 1, they had 8 Corners to our 2, and 12 fouls to their 9.

The latter down to poor refereeing or should I say poo refereeing ? Are there any decent ones in the Premier League? I'd be interested to know, because I've never seen one.

Geoff Winter was a decent one and I have met him a couple of times at Sportsman's Dinners. Just when we are glad to be rid of Dean and Moss, they get replaced with equally garbage stand-ins who all seem biased towards the Big 6 or 7.

Let's face it, we are miles off Spurs – and expectation of going there and getting something was going to be slim.

Man Utd at home, we should've got a point. Yesterday was just a case of trying to get a draw away at a team who will win most of their home games this season.

The next game is coming quickly.

Maupay and Calvert-Lewin need to start together. Maupay is industrious enough to create space for others. That probably his biggest asset and why we should use him in this way.

Gordon or Gray need to drop out. It's clear we have zero pace in this side which is why Lampard is playing the two of them. But they are completely ineffective.

Playing one of them in a starting XI with Maupay and Calvert-Lewin will afford whoever gets the jersey more space. I would go with Gordon.

Gueye looks off the pace. But we still need that shielding midfield player if we are to play Onana and Iwobi. Now we have sold Allan, it looks like Gana needs to keep his place or that we ask Doucouré to perform that role. Or Tom Davies.

It won't do Onana any harm to drop out for a game. He's been thrust into a new league and a new life and is a very young man.

I would bring in Mason Holgate at right-back vs Palace as we need someone to cope with the physicality of their forwards.

My team would be:

Pickford
Holgate Tarkowski Coady Mykolenko
Gana
Iwobi Garner
Gordon Maupay
Calvert-Lewin

Not wanting him gone but he has to be brave and somehow discover some in-game management.

I keep hearing Tom Cannon is not ready... but what harm can it do?

Yeah, took me a while to finally register on ToffeeWeb, but here I am.

I've seen many of your witty comments, and hope that I don't become the butt of some of your wit!!

It wasn't aimed at a particular person.

Apologies for any offence caused.

The negativity sent me over the top!

We are going to stay up. That for me is job done for this season. The improvement in our defence is the best I've ever seen. To go from laughably shite to competent over the course of a pre-season is remarkable.

Yes, we are toothless at the moment, newsflash though that was the first game Calvert-Lewin has started in a million years. Also, anyone with eyes to see can see what Onana is going to be like even weeks from now.

You call it 'negativity' but it's just Evertonians reacting to what they see. It wasn't good. 1 goal attempt, not even on target.

Not good enough.

Sometimes you have to accept that a lot of the comments are pretty much bang on – however 'negative' it may feel – and however much it may go against your own personal 'positivity'.

I know there was still nearly a month of the summer transfer window left, so every effort should have been made to bring another striker in, along with Maupay.

As you, and others say, despite losing five games so far this season, nobody has outplayed us.

We have a run of games against the fellow lesser lights of the Premier League and we need to pick up some good results pronto.

We are just not very good though, are we, as per usual we are short of creativity in the engine room, the midfield. All areas of the team are important but I would say midfield comes first.

Add to that we also can't buy a goal from anywhere lately; we have 8 goals in 11 games! Spurs and the new Newcastle were two difficult fixtures so I'm not too down about those.

There's little to choose quality-wise between half the league so I think we will survive but it's hardly a season to look forward to again.

Relegation would be an unmitigated disaster – especially at this time with the new stadium being built.

Clearly he wasn't, but Lampard hadn't said this at the beginning of the season, which, if he had said it then, would have indicated confidence to back himself, and fronted up to his critics. Instead, he waited until we'd been unbeaten for about 6 games and other managers had been sacked.

In other words, at the start of the season, he didn't really believe he wouldn't be the first manager sacked this season, and he was relieved when he wasn't. This lack of confidence in his own ability will have been picked up by the players.

Well, Frank, you won't be the first sacked this season, but you may well be sacked within the next few weeks if we lose the next 2 or 3 games, or not win any of the next 4.

You don't believe in yourself Frank, and it's no surprise the players don't either.

I have to disagree with you on Calvert-Lewin. He was out most of last season so there was always a chance he would pick up another injury this season, that's what happens.

We shouldn't have bought McNeil and Maupay; we should have used that £30 million on a decent striker.

However, you cannot just write off 3 losses on the bounce – even if they were tough games. It is also hard to write off how the team has performed lately overall.

As lots of people have said (and have been saying since before the season started!) a lack of goals is killing us. Other teams managed to sign strikers over the summer, so I don't know why we couldn't find a good one.
Sounds like we could have had Brereton Diaz from Blackburn, for example, if we had stumped up a few million extra – what a difference he could be making now.

I know we got Maupay but he is not the answer or the 15- to 20-goal-a-season finisher we need. I know Calvert-Lewin should be back at some point but our position now shows the problem – just hanging around for that to happen as games pass by.

We must just try to pick up points where we can, get through to January and sign at least one proven striker who has shown they can finish, be clinical, can score a decent amount of goals each season at a good level. They are out there!

The other thing that worries me a bit currently is that we are seeing what has happened to other Everton managers at the moment.

An alright enough start and then the players decide to stop playing or trying for some reason. Lampard is not the first manager who has seen this. Why can the players not put a shift in and try their best every week?

‘This lack of confidence in his own ability will have been picked up by the players.‘

You state this as fact.

I say it's total, fabricated bollocks from someone as close to the inner sanctum of Finch Farm as I am to Putin's circle of friends.
🤦🏼‍♂️

Also, if he is injured again, then the lack of options exposes why we can't just rely on him.

We might reasonably have hoped for a single point from the last three matches, and should have expected none.

Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham, Southampton, Leicester, Wolves, Villa and Leeds at home. Unfortunately, we failed to get 3 points from Forest at home, so these are the must win matches if we're to stay up.

Assuming we pick up the odd point around these fixtures, we'll be safe.

So watching my team surrender three times made me wonder if it was Covid or just plain anger that made my blood boil.

I understand, rare clarity, that Lampard has focused on stopping goals and defensive mistakes. Bringing I'm defensive-minded players to stop the rot. Nothing wrong with that, but the loss of Patterson, Godfrey and even Holgate left us with holes in the net.

Onana and Gana are stoppers, but because of a defensive hole, Iwobi has been assigned to cover duties for Seamus, and it's not working.

With no creativity and no target man, we have had no penetration. Two wingers without focus, without an objective. A bench without strength and a manager moving deck chairs on The Titanic.

The ball has to be delivered into the box, Iwobi and Garner have to be central 3 or 4. With Gana behind Onana to win the 2nd ball and one-twos.

We need creation with one central and one wide outlet... different tactics and early delivery.

Lying here thinking about the Blues makes me even grumpier... Come on, Lampard, the opposition has you sussed. If you keep doing the things that don't work, you will keep getting the same results..

Headed to the dreaded zone after three defeats on the bounce and no sign it is going to improve.

Will Lampard stick or twist? He surely cannot continue giving these underachievers more chances.

Always happens that, when Everton have a bad run, Liverpool get luckier and luckier, but of course they do have the players.

The present midfield has to be changed with Gray and Gana being the first to be dropped in my book. The bubble around Iwobi seems to have burst and Gordon is not showing anything that suggests he can be a force.

I know that the changes may not get them back on track but he cannot continue with the same dross.

We don't have the capability to play on the counter-attack and open up better teams, therefore it is simply a matter of time before we concede (not that Newcastle are all that great). When that happens away from home, it is game over.

Some reflections:

1) Onana has good potential, but he needs a break from the team.

2) We cannot play Onana, Garner and Iwobi, so Gana stays as the holding player (Doucoure can't play that position.)

3) Our fullbacks looked a real strength, but we are missing Patterson and Mykolenko looks like he needs a break from the team.

4) Our wide players are one-dimensional and lack creativity.

5) We need to move the defensive line up the pitch.

6) Adapt the formation to play Maupay close to Calvert-Lewin until January, then focus on signing a new striker in the transfer window.

7) Sacking another manager would be mental, but Lampard is testing my patience with his tactics and terrible substitutions. He needs to adapt and learn rather quickly.

Welcome Davd Pugh. Some very good points and I agree with just about all of it.

The wingers are not wingers in the traditional sense. They are both individuals who get played on the opposite side. And they are both players who want to run with the ball a lot of the time. If they consider crossing, it often requires a check, giving the defender valuable seconds to close out the danger.

Both can deliver decent crosses from dead ball situations, but I haven't seen a lot of it in open play.

That's not an observation of last night as I didn't see it. One shot?

I am sure that I speak for every single Evertonian on here who, as clear as day, were screaming out for Everton to bring in a couple of strikers at the start of the season.

We brought in two defenders for nothing, one of them will eventually cost us £4.5 Million. We recruited well in midfield in parts, yet where we were absolutely threadbare in attack – main striker injured, 2 strikers for the U21s allowed to go out on loan, with only Rondon as the main backup, until Maupay came in – we chose not to bring in at least another striker.

Nearly every game this season, we have played much better than last season's horror show, we have competed in most, with the same end result, the final third, no-one to put the ball in the net on a regular basis.

Had we addressed the forward situation, I am pretty sure we would not be where we are now. Diaz had already scored 8 goals this season, yet we were not prepared to pay a few extra million, to meet Blackburn's asking price.

I commend our tough stance on not being bullied to pay a bit more, but there are times when you simply have to, and that was one of the times.

We are in this mess now because of the forward situation. I do not need to tell fellow Blues that, as if I am Mr Know It All, as if my view is suddenly making Evertonians think "Wow, never thought of that."

We all know, we all said it when the window closed, that we screwed up in the forward department.

Give Dom, Rondon, Maupay or 'another' 3 or 4 good chances and they will score. The problem is the lack of chances created.

As we can't change personnel, we need to change how we create. A simple solution away from home is to utilise Dom and Rondon who need good crosses into the 'penalty spot' area.

Only Patterson and McNeil can cross well enough on a consistent basis. With Patterson out injured, I would play McNeil deeper so he can find the space and time to deliver crosses.

The aim being to put as many crosses into the danger area as possible. 12 plus crosses each half. If a quarter of them find a blue shirt, we should hopefully convert directly or indirectly at least one.

Straight from Sam's playbook! But away from home, why not until we can improve play and or players?

The guy needs a rest. First season in the Premier League; I think he is finding the pace a little too fast.

Not perfect by any means, but worked the game with a smile and had great instincts for handling players.

Bit of a paunch, looked like a guy from the neighborhood. Rooney once threw the ball at him and got a red card.

How many years and managers do we have to suffer with playing like this? Does all of the bad luck that our neighbours deserve wrongly get sent by mistake to us??

We also should not assume that we will get points from those teams around us because this is Everton remember. We just love to hand other teams their first win, allow an opposition player to score his first goal since he was 7, or we break a record for the only team ever to not touch the ball in the opposition penalty area.

Come on, Frank. Give us something to cheer before the media start their usual campaign of “Who's next?”

While we have a forward line that has less chance of scoring than Quasimodo at a Miss World contest, Square One is exactly where we will stay.

We haven't had a top-line striker since Lukaku went in 2017. Until that situation is remedied, we will make no progress.

With the money from the sale of Richarlison and, let's face it, for us to replace him with someone as good, it would have taken all the money we got for him, we have strengthened the central defenders and improved the midfield while staying within the FFP rules.

During the transfer window, Everton were often mentioned as being in negotiations with Chelsea and Blackburn over a striker who, before Calvert-Lewin's injuries, was most probably a back-up to him.

The boy from Chelsea would most probably not have come as a back-up. The boy from Blackburn – to have brought him in as a back-up to Calvert-Lewin may have been a good option –but Blackburn priced him out of what Everton were willing to pay for a player who had no Premier League experience, and let's face it, the Premier League is a lot more than a step up from The Championship.

There is no doubt that this was a very poor performance as a team overall, including the manager. It may happen again, and I don't see it as a reason to go ballistic over it and saying we should fire the manager – "Again!"

I am no fan of Bill Kenwright but I believe 90% of our problems should be laid at the feet of the owner, Farhad Moshiri, who I believe is responsible from the beginning of the managerial hirings – including the biggest slap in the face of Evertonians, Benitez.

There has been more positive action from junior to senior organization by Thelwell combining with Lampard in organizing the Academy and moving out of unwanted overpaid expensive players that has failed to happened before.

No manager has a Chrystal Ball or a fortune teller to let them know when injuries are going to happen that would put needed players out for months, especially in the first weeks before and at the start of the season.

I don't believe in the theory that a new manager will bring in better results – looking at Man Utd and Wolves. I believe we are structurally better off with the DoF, and it is now up to the manager to prove that he can get results and prove that the club is on the right path.

Peter, I'm itching to watch a playback of the match, but I want to stay positive, so judging by the analysis here, I may give it a miss.

Close matches against most teams this season. We just need to tip the scales the other way in our favour slightly. We're not getting battered like last season. We have improved in terms of being more solid. Yes, the forward area is the glaring issue and the vast majority of us knew that.

With a combination of luck and performance, we'll pick up points and go into the World Cup nice and relaxed.

I say luck. Those Goodison goal posts have given me many a hot flush this calendar year. Maybe that's just my age.

Your old Chelsea formation, with two no-good wingers, is not working.

Have you got the coaching brain to change it????

The team selection and tactics have been questionable all season.

I am not in Franks league when it comes to football knowledge but even I can see that persisting with ineffective wingers allied to Iwobi leaves us under pressure in midfield and the reason we have no creativity is there is no-one to pass to.

Neither Maupay nor Calvert-Lewin on their own up front, while Gordon, Gray or McNeil are boxed off on the wing, is ever going to produce goals.

For away games, we need to go 4-4-2 and 4-2-2-2 with Garner and Gueye holding, with Onana and Iwobi further forward, and for now Maupay and Calvert-Lewin up front and park the totally ineffective wingers.

The tactics we currently employ encourage teams to press higher up the pitch and therefore we are under constant pressure and miles off the opposing goal.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Frank, and do something about it.

Allow the back four to defend and have an out ball available with 2 upfront.

Winter belied his name by having a permanent tan for which he was widely abused.

Further back, I remember Maurice Fussey. When awarding a goal kick, he used to point theatrically at the spot and then sprint towards the bye line. Sometimes he would
end up on the advertising hoarding behind the goal.

He was useless as well.

There's a few reasons for this - which are structural and not just the fault of Gray, Gordon and McNeil.

For the time being, I think the easiest fix is to play Maupay and DCL together in a 442 - along the lines you are suggesting Jay. Maupay as a second striker a bit deeper / wider than DCL. Gordon, Gueye, Garner and McNeil then make up the midfield.

It's not very sophisticated but we can play long, beat a high press and at least have bodies in the opposition box.

Longer term though Frank needs to figure out how to play a 433 / 4231 - and indeed whether he needs new personnel to do it.

Gana looks brittle compared to his old self, we have patently missed Patterson, but the biggest difficulty for me is Mykolenko who has looked weak, and this seems to be confirmed by some dreadful stats in recent games.

Things are never what they seem though, and I would expect the coaching team to work on where we are weak. We aren't in a panic situation yet but losing gains its own wicked momentum.

Zero from 9 points is really bad form, especially for a side that has a very strong defensive spine. We have to solve the scoring problem soon... but how?

Okay, it may have been a minimal push, but a push is a push, sending Gordon to the floor. We all know those are given to certain clubs if it happens to one of their players.

I think we more than held our own in the first half, and were certainly more than a match for Newcastle. Might watch the second half later.

Out of the summer signings, Maupay, McNeil and Gueye are just not good enough. Onana may be in time, but is struggling at present.

Calvert-Lewin is not match-fit and the wingers don't provide anything for a striker to feed off. Iwobi has been poor the last two games. Garner and Doucouré must come in for Saturday.

Thanks, yes time and stability is what we need now.

Patterson definitely missed too with attacking options.

I agree, I think Garner needs to start for a bit more urgency in midfield.

Sounds like Stan Mills is doing well for the U21s so can't be far off the first team.

In the second half, there were at least three good crosses into the opposition area, cleared unchallenged by the opposition. I think Kane even cleared one of them. Not a blue shirt in sight was the commentary I was listening too.

And some consideration should be given to those who are somewhat fed up with the less than constructive criticism. We all have to grind it out after a performance like that but if some could respect that they are affecting others' ability to stay in love with this club that is obviously troubled it would help. Extra points for not muttering 'snowflake' in that effort.

It is perhaps a little depressing that many now seem to be pinning hopes on a 20-year-old Scottish full-back who has started less than 10 Premier League games for us. These things go in cycles though; last season, he was a waste of money and would never make it south of the border.

The same seems to be true of Onana. A couple of weeks ago he could do nothing wrong; now, he does not appear in most people's teams for Palace.

Personally, I have never got him, his distribution is dreadful, for someone who is as tall as he is, his heading ability is shocking, he falls over a lot usually with arm in the air like he is in urgent need of a trip to the nearest A&E.

He rarely moves forward, choosing to move crab-like from one side of the pitch to the other. I'm sure that there is a player in there, but someone needs to do some serious work to bring it out.

The break for the World Cup could be crucial, we won't be losing that many players and the extended break will give Frank and the team a huge opportunity to come up with a plan, because judging by last night, we don't have one at present.

It's a basic adult human instinct to have an ability to pick up when others who are leading them, lack confidence. That's a human behavioural fact.

As for whether Lampard lacks confidence in himself, that is clearly an opinion, but I have set out what I believe is compelling evidence that he, at best, suffers from self-doubt.

2021-22; P11 Pts 7 Goals for 8 against 26
2022-23; P11 Pts 10 Goals for 8 against 12

So perhaps all is not lost, just yet.

I couldn't even try or know how to.

Back in the UK for the next round of matches leading to the World Cup. All will be fine.

I've often commented about believing 4-4-2 as being outdated and leaving the midfield exposed in the modern game, but the comments about using Maupay in support of Dominic might just be worth a go. Maupay is a proper pain in the defenders' ears and both players might benefit off each other. Interesting thought.

My Steaua Bucharest supporting colleague out here is now an Everton follower as his English team. I've told him about that banner and he gave me a Romanian gesture that I didn't fully understand.

Let's get bitter. Let's stay proud.

I agree we need to change to 4-4-2 and play Calvert-Lewin and Maupay upfront.

Personally, I'd play Onana and Iwobi in midfield in place of Gordon and McNeil. Not having a go at Gordon but at the moment he is failing to deliver and I'd prefer Iwobi in a role behind the front 2.

McNeil hasn't done enough to convince me he warrants a place in the side, I appreciate it is hard to show your worth if not in the team!

Not advocating the suggestion of physical consequences I'm just kind of okay with someone on my side giving it a go in response to what I see as slightly irresponsible to the group.

I understand the emotion and sometimes laugh at the rhetoric but some may not have the thick skin I do and it can do some damage or cause escalating responses.

Checking out of that topic now.

If this is the case, wouldn't he be a better option for cutting in from the flank as an inside forward than our current two unproductive ''wingers''?

I believe that you are incorrect in us Evertonians not being allowed to criticise each other for our depth of feeling for the club and negativity/positivity. It is an infringement of freedom of speech over a very valid subject.

We can slag any aspect of EFC but not our degree of support for the club when such a massive difference patently exists.

I watched Everton at Southampton recently and was amongst Evertonians. If I read the Live Forums and match reports recently, they are from a different breed.

I think that's sort of what is expected of a Calvert-Lewin + Maupay pairing. Maupay will run channels, come deep etc. Calvert-Lewin will play up against the centre-backs.

Danny, the old 4-4-2 / 4-2-4 is outmoded. Blackburn could not compete with the sort of 4-4-2 they used to win the title in the 1990s, for example.

But like any formation, it depends on the players at your disposal and what you're trying to achieve tactically.

Ancelotti, someone worth paying attention to, likes a 4-4-2 diamond (what John is suggesting at 274). That helps keep Iwobi in the side – a good thing – but lacks any width at all, especially without Patterson.

The other option is to go 3-5-2, which better accommodates all the midfielders – but then creates a problem organising the centre-backs.

None of these formations or selections are perfect by any stretch.

As others have said, it would probably have been better to buy a really good attacker for £30(+)M rather than both of McNeil and Maupay. Worth giving both time though.

We've had a difficult run and had some bad luck. No need to get twitchy just yet.

You would like to hope that recruitment was made with a specific formation in mind. If everybody was fit, what do you think would be the formation?

To me, it looks like we have signed three defensive midfielders, admittedly I haven't seen much of Garner but I thought he was a defensive midfielder.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to forfeit one of those three for a more attack-minded midfielder?

Firstly, squad depth - something which has really hit us for a few years. I think that was the main aim.

Secondly, versatility (ie, changing tactics or formations).

The fact that we kicked off with 5-2-2-1 / 3-4-3, and then moved so quickly (and unsurprisingly) to 4-2-3-1 / 4-3-3 suggests we didn't recruit by reference to a specific formation.

Or if we did, it's a formation we're no longer using.

Calvert-Lewin is way off the pace at the minute. After that, we have average players. Gordon may well go on to be a good player but he is not there yet. Gray has 1 good game in 5.

The midfield works hard and looks more solid but there is little creativity. When was the last time we had a player that got us off our seats?

Last few matches, we have been slow and lazy in our passing to support the front man. Work harder and chances will be created. Need to earn points. At present, I don't see that.

Coleman needs a rest, Mykolenko is a left-back, but after playing as a 3rd centre-back against Spurs, he gave way too much room to Almiron last night. Iwobi ran around like a headless chicken, and Gordon needs to sit on the bench.

If we want to be more offensive play Calvert-Lewin and Maupay upfront on Saturday as well.

I'm confident, just about, that we will stay in the Premier League because there's probably three other teams worse than us. It's not fun though, is it? I'm fed-up of biting my nails.

Is it just me or is football in general getting more boring? Of the 5 games last night, there was only 5 goals scored and 2 of those were Man Utd's.

Add refs and the VAR not playing to the rules. It was a definite push on Gordon. If they apply the rules, it's a penalty. It's no excuse saying that it wasn't a violent push.

Same goes for all the wrestling in the box on corners and free kicks – it's become a joke!

I wonder if the legacy cost of Benitez was worth it. We are still paying for the cost of his appointment and the management of this once great club.

He’ll only score goals in a side creating chances for him. So he won’t be scoring goals in this current Everton team.

How many times was the ball crossed into the box yesterday?

I can’t recall it being many.

DCL is more than capable of hitting 15 a season but only if the ball is fed into the box for him. He’s arguably one of the best headers’ of a ball in world football.

We surely signed Dwight McNeil for this purpose. As his crossing statistics are incredible.

Therefore I think we should play to our strengths. Counter attack doesn’t serve us, as despite the pace offered by Gray and Gordon, they offer very little in creative quality.

So they can run the ball up the field quickly, but the ball moves more quickly than any human being. We would be better served with Maupay and DCL playing together and if we need to get crosses in for DCL then McNeil or Garner have to play.

I sincerely don’t get anybody who rates Demarai Gray, he’s awful.

Surely someone will disagree?

With what we've got at the moment, it makes the most sense. Especially until we sign a quality forward with some pace, along with getting Patterson back.

I posted a similar line of thought to this too on Lyndon's thread. There does seem to be some sort of unlikely consensus, so TW has spoken!

"When was the last time we had a player that got us off our seats?"

As Christine so rightly said: James Rodriguez!

Most of these lot have me on the edge of the toilet seat in the last 3 games!

I disagree. We don't need to go long and direct. Some of our play out from the back yesterday worked well.

It served the purpose of drawing their pressing players into our final third and created some space behind.

Also, the phase of Coady or Onana bringing the ball forward themselves works well this season.

It's the next stage where it all starts to fall apart. When their front line pressed, their defence still remained fairly deep, particularly their full-backs.

Dan Burn didn't offer anything at all going forward – he didn't need to. He sat deep and caused Gordon to retreat back from him for the entire game. Except for one incident when he got beyond him and was fouled in the box.

So for an entire game, the only joy Gordon got was this one incident. I think our wide players, although pacey, are not intelligent enough or technical enough to produce anything creative.

Therefore they are better replaced by players who can serve a ball into an area.

There is absolutely no defence in world football that wants to face 15 or 20 crosses into the box in a game with Calvert-Lewin in the middle ready to attack it.

The solution is fairly simple. Stay solid as we have been. Encourage our defenders to continue to play to invite the press and get beyond it.

Then have McNeil and our full-backs putting crosses into areas with quality. Anywhere over the halfway line and a cross should be going in when there is space available to deliver it.

On another day, in danger of becoming a modern Peter Beagrie without those infuriating endless cut-backs.

Not the same, but parallels. The talent is not in question in my view. It's the decision-making.

If he would just look up and make better decisions, the end product and supply to the striker(s) would increase no end.

He's a real threat... to threaten. Not so much to score or assist.

Perhaps you are not familiar with our Conditions of Use?

This is what No 8 says: You agree not to question or impugn the Evertonian credentials of other contributors or to denigrate their support of the Club.

The thing about having a forum like this is that we accept a wide spectrum of views (positive and negative, if you must characterize them that way). Most posters accept that principle and understand why they benefit from it as protecting the expression of their viewpoint.

Unfortunately, we had one of our best and most respected posters, Rob Halligan, go berserk last night on his way back from the game: he said in no uncertain terms that he could no longer accept the range of views we allow to be posted. But strangely, he still wanted his views to be posted.

I can only think it was watching last night's game that put him over the edge. Pretty sad.

Coleman, McNeil? Anyone...

Free-kick dead-ball specialists. we haven't got one! Baines, where are you now? Do we even practice them anymore? Have a competition in training everyday, see who can be best, try something or someone different, for goodness sake!

I'm not sure Rob would have gone off on anyone were it not for the tone of the 'support' offered by another poster.

We are all so down with the results after looking to be turning the corner after the Hammers game, so it's understandable we are all pissed.

I am beginning to think, maybe unfairly, that Lampard doesn't know what to do next, much like Slippy 'G' at Villa who looks like he will get the chop any day now.

The squad is so totally lacking in offence, it's hard to see where the next win will come as every game will be difficult.

I don't see Everton applying the high press like other teams, and defending it they are even worse, so is that the ineptitude of the players or the coaching?

There has to be major changes soon; otherwise, I dread what will happen after the World Cup break and beyond.

I've had the pleasure of meeting Rob a few times, and he is a great guy. He clearly is a very passionate Evertonian, like most on here.

I think it was just frustration with the way we are playing and the constant negativity on this site that made him lose his cool.

Rob went off on everyone. If you think there's something I'm missing, please let me know.

Played: 11

Win: 4

Draw: 3

Lost: 4

Goals scored: 16

Goals conceded: 16

Goal difference: 0

Points: 15

Link

Also, our goal difference is -4 not +2!!

Goals for: 8

Goals against: 12

My point is simply that what is called support in your policy sometimes isn't really support at all. It is infantile exasperation that brings the rest of us down.

And no I don't care to be the one to decide what is what. When someone like Rob goes off, it is a sign of something more than just one dude who lost it after a crappy Everton away performance.

But "being frustrated with the way we're playing" – isn't that what this 'negativity' thing is all about? That is negativity incarnate, isn't it?

Certainly it is no justification for this sort of thing:

"Everton fans may well be the best in the country, but believe me, none of those fans exist on this forum."

Dale: that is an example, in case you're still confused.

I think the policy definition of 'support' is more all-encompassing but perhaps it needs expanding to excoriate posters expressing "infantile exasperation" – if that's what's really bringing you down.

Me, I can't stand people predicting that we are going to lose. How fucking negative is that???

I've enjoyed this site for over 15 years. I didn't always contribute as much as I do now. I couldn't, but I used to follow it as much as I could.

It provides a wealth of opinions on politics, health, football and most importantly, what matters to us all the most. Everton Football Club. We've had some fantastic debates.

I genuinely and totally respect the work, time and effort that Michael and Lyndon put into maintaining this forum of many diverse views. It's unbelievable and you won't get a fan's website like it anywhere. I also appreciate you need to moderate and keep things appropriate.

We can be divided on opinion, we can debate, argue and discuss. But we are unified in the one thing we all love.

I can accept frustration. I can accept venting. And I can accept different views. I've had the odd spat or two myself on here. But I always try to understand and learn off people who have those different views.

I have met Rob on a few occasions, home and away. We've sat in an East London pub surrounded by West Ham supporters and walked to the ground surrounded by even more of them. No bother and spoke to quite a few of them along the way.

Whatever went on – I didn't read it – I'm sure it was all in the context of frustration.

As you say, Michael, one of the most respected posters and commentators who literally attends every single Everton match in person. And is taking me to Europe next season. I'm on a promise to join the gang!!

Let's get Rob "Steve McQueen" Halligan out of the cooler and all calm down. We've got Palace on Saturday.

In this together, Blue Boys. We lost a game of football. Let’s win the next one and move on.

My pet peave would be to create a coatrack for anyone who says roughly 'that's it, fuck off Everton, I'm done'.

And if I may be permitted a moment of levity...

FREE ROB HALLIGAN! ; ) sorry man, had to do it.

We are all so down with the results after looking to be turning the corner after the Hammers game so it's understandable we are all pissed.

I am beginning to think, maybe unfairly, that Lampard doesn't know what to do next, much like Slippy 'G' at Villa who looks like he will get the chop any day now.

The squad is so totally lacking in offence it's hard to see where the next win will come as every game will be difficult.

I don't see Everton applying the high press like other teams and defending it they are even worse, so is that the ineptitude of the players or the coaching?

There has to be major changes soon; otherwise, I dread what will happen after the World Cup break and beyond.

The fury that seizes us after games like last night's is sometimes overwhelming. Part of the raw, absurd humanity of supporting a football club.

It would help, of course, if the team could score a couple of goals.

Gana can run all day but has very limited ability with the ball. Gray is good with the ball but actually tries to do too much. Gordon looks completely lost and bang average. Maupay is no better than Eastoe or Beattie. There's only Iwobi who has played well recently and we would not have said that over a year ago.

The bigger picture is how we have been run for the past few decades and in my view continue to do so with Kenwright lingering like a rotten smell.

Given what has happened to Gerrard, it's just the way things go these days in a results business. Frank is trying to build us up from the back but the past few games have shown that we sit too deep and invite pressure whilst having little impact getting forward. Tactics can win games so he simply has to change it up a bit to get us creating and scoring.

We don't have great players bu,t as we showed against the devil's team, we can actually give it a go. Even a point against Newcastle would have changed our mood but we were crap and didn't deserve anything.

'Frustrating' is too nice a word being a Blue.

The gap between the play and realising the need to be effective seems to be large for quite a few Everton players. If I can see this, I am sure the manager can see it. What's more, the culprits involved know it as well.

I'm honored to count Rob as a friend as well, and a pillar of this odd little community of ours.

However, in view of his dedication to the Everton cause, augmented by his intense hatred of the rs, I would like to add my voice to the pleas for clemency.

Usually, it is accompanied by comments on players (shite, useless etc), sack another manager and trying to outdo each other on who is the most depressed and hysterical.

Rob is one of the posters worth reading, so it is ironic that he is banned but others are permitted to carry on with their relentless negativity.

I am not aware of Rob's post so I do not know what was written but I am in the same mind of a few posters regarding Rob.

Having met him a couple of times and read a lot of his posts in the past, I also would like to add my name to a plea of clemency, has Rob had warnings in the past? I can't recall any posts of Rob's over many years where he has gone ”over the top”.

Rob loves Everton and defends them with a passion. Rob's not saying this, I'm saying it for him maybe it was a few “moments of anger, instantly regretted” knowing Rob maybe it wasn't and he would be correct to tell me to “mind your own bleedin' business, Dave,” which I would understand!!

Rob offered a fellow poster a “meet us after school” fight. Rob is one of Everton's most fervent supporters and a true gent. I don't know what TW punishment he's received but I hope it short term as he's one of the best.

I was suspended years ago for doing the same thing to Darren H. I took my medicine and got on with it. Me and Darren are big mates now. I hope Rob and Mark can settle their differences as well.

#FreeRobHalligan

Hatred of said club and pointing out our continuing failures as a club in a broader sense gets you a big stick to be beaten with. Hopefully the Toffee Chatroom now puts an end to any deleting. Sort of a refined general forum.

I just passed the new stadium site on the train and I went all Chairman. What a beautiful vision in the sunshine. Quite emotional!

Just 2 hours ago, I turned off Stanley Road into Boundary Street and there it lay before me.

It promises to be quite a sight when complete.

The irony is that Mr Positive, Rob, gets the cane. #Free Rob Halligan.

Justice for the ToffeeWeb 1.

We need a TW VAR. Marginally onside.

Banning regular contributors rather than warning them means that they will probably not come back.

I'm sure Rob's not arsed really.

A respectable member of TW society once more. Possibly helping others to not go astray, not make the mistakes he has made. Redemption.

Rob, I wasn't ignoring you at Newcastle – I just had to talk to somebody else quickly.

Yes, sometimes I must 'piss you off' because there are occasions where I do predict that it's unlikely that we will win. Of course all of us who post on here hope we will win every game but we also realise thats never going to happen.

What I don't agree with is posts that call players and whoever is the manager at the time 'shite' etc because a few results have gone against us.

You can also add some who never post anything remotely positive, although I can understand their frustration.

Most human beings are capable of emotion (even traffic cops) and sometimes we get carried away.

I watched every minute of the Newcastle match and I can understand why some people might have "emoted inappropriately". We were so hopeless in attack, the options were probably either lose it or just accept it wasn't our day. Many of us managed the latter. Best to Rob anyway. I'm sure you won't be "barred out" forever.

Seeing the number of sackings so far this season, three consecutive defeats cannot be a comfortable place to be. I hope Frank makes it but, if the Palace game goes badly, the storm clouds will be gathering.

I know I'm the other way around and probably too positive, thinking we'll win every match. I can't help that. My son and brother frequently look at the family idiot (I'm the oldest by far, by the way) and shake their heads at my ramblings when we discuss Everton.

We all have our own way of commenting on Everton. Even I'm not averse to criticising; they are not exempt when it's due.

I think I always try to be constructive, but that will be down to the opinion of others. But even I sometimes get affected by the frustration and occasionally vent.

Sometimes these online debates get heated, but I'm sure the very same conversation and passionate debate in a pub before or after the match, expletives and all, would be water off a duck's back and a shake of hands after agreeing to disagree 99% of the time.

We'll all be there again on Saturday, at Goodison or watching from afar. Ready to go and wanting the same thing.

Bring the points home.

I just don't get why it gets a mention – if we're garbage, and fans say as much, but happy when we win and play well, surely that's just realism?

We haven't had a good team consistently since Howard Kendall Mk 1, so we've been bang average to shite for many supporters' entire lives – that isn't negative, that's reality.

Flouncing around bemoaning "negativity" is infantile – it is what is – grow up, for fuck's sack.

I don't put a lot on here but enjoy reading other people's posts. Some I just shake my head at and others I may disagree with. One thing I do look for is from supporters who, I have learnt over time, actually go to the game and that is because, with experience, I have learned that you get a better view being at the game than watching on TV, as they just follow the ball.

It is a shame that one such supporter let his feelings overcome him, and that made him write comments that, in the light of day, he regrets and hopefully the Editor will minimize his suspension from the site.

Seamus and Bainsey (and Jags) used to throw a few in and we had Lukaku, Deulofeu and – dare I mention him? – Barkley, with the frustrating Kevin Mirallas.

Since then, all we have bought is players with a poor goalscoring record... and we expect to win games. How?

Yes, we look good at times but, without clinical finishers, how can we win games? – especially now that defenses and goalkeepers have got that much better.

For a start, it's 35 years of disappointment, plus the rest, with brief windows of optimism and excitement.

Just because you like Frank Lampard and want him to succeed doesn't entitle you to get angry with people who question his abilities. Or maybe it does? I don't really mind, it doesn't upset me.

He's won 2 games from 11 this season.

When he came in, he tried to play all-out attacking football, and then gave up on it pretty quickly when it backfired.

Now, he's so scared of conceding a goal, and being criticised for defensive naivety, that we never look like scoring or even getting a shot off.

That is what's happening, and this is what people are concerned about, not to mention the inexperienced, indecisive in-game management.

Sticking with someone doesn't guarantee positive results, although I don't think sacking him now would be a great idea either. Sometimes (I'd say always), things are complicated, it's not simply a case of positive or negative.

Although I do agree, when people predict we are going to lose before the game even kicks off, that does seem needlessly bleak.

I'm not sure what's ‘Super' about Frank Lampard?

He's definitely more in a Clarke Kent – fumbling his way around tentatively – mode at the moment.

Supporting Frank Lampard doesn't make you a better Evertonian, and questioning his abilities doesn't make you a worse one; it's all part of the same tapestry.

If you need the constant external validation of your own opinion being reinforced, then maybe you just need to grow up a bit, probably.

Like sensible people have said on here, everyone wants Everton to win; no-one is relishing shit results, that's your own projection. The words on a screen from a comment can trigger you because, deep down, you know it might not be going that well.

Personally, I'd keep Lampard in for as long as possible (if the spectre of relegation isn't too stark) to rebuild and reshape this squad.

Hopefully, his Moyesian ‘he's a young manager, still learning' abilities can grow exponentially because, if not, Moshiri will pull the trigger before the end of this season.

He chose not to; instead, he allowed Everton to play more defensively, which got Everton nowhere, not even a shot on target against Newcastle.

I am comparing matches against the same teams over the two seasons. So last season we lost 0-2 to Southampton away and this season we won 2-1. Similarly, we lost 0-1 to West Ham Utd at home; this season, we beat them 1-0.

This is surely a more valid comparison than just saying 'after 11 games'.

On the bright side:

Southampton finished on 40 points and have dropped 4 this season = 36
Aston Villa finished on 45 points and have dropped 9 this season = 36
Leicester City finished on 52 points and have dropped 14 this season= 38

It reminds me of the story about 2 guys walking and they see a bear running towards them:

"Run" shouts the first, as the second starts putting on trainers.
"Why, you will never out-run the bear!" shouts the first.
"I know, I just need to out-run you."

Providing we have more points than 3 other teams, we can have two more windows – or even three – to sort out the squad.

Conceding 9 less goals in 11 matches is half the job done. Last season, we conceded on average 1.75 goals per game - so we had to score 2 to draw, or 3 to win. This season, we are conceding just over 1 per game so we only need 1 to draw or 2 to win.

I understand a fan forum by its very nature leans toward echo chamber commentary but the Everton decline has been self-evident going back decades; at some point, the realisation must kick in that "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" is dead.

Saying as much should not be verboten.

Critiquing the issues, that are self-evident to many, should not be disparaged or censured. Indeed, to not address this monstrous elephant in the room is tantamount to tacitly encouraging decline.

Say it as you see it. The dramatic impact of fans at the end of last season came from "negativity" – a recognition that the team could not be trusted. None of them sat there saying "We're great, there is no problem – I'm really positive, me."

To ban a fan, if indeed, he has been banned, from this site is very unjust as we need fans like Rob who give a very good insight to all things Everton. I'm sure it was all in the heat of the moment and I hope that the mods reconsider the ban and let him back on.

Chelsea -3
Man Utd -3
West Ham Utd +3
Southampton +3
Forest (worst promoted = Norwich) -2
Brentford +1
Liverpool +1

Spurs, Newcastle, Villa and Leeds were all the same result as last season.

So let's have your best shot: name and shame. Or is that too much to ask?

Only rule: nothing from the Live Forum. I've asked for stuff from there before and got nothing.

You guys bleat on about 'negativity' – give me some real examples, with names.

Can't we just have free speech, people just ignore what they don't like, and don't get upset?

Over time I’ve seen quite a few people post to the effect “fuck Everton, I’m done” after a defeat. I’ve never taken it too seriously as any more than emotional venting in the moment. So personally I don’t think we should take action against that unless it’s some troll newcomer who pops in just to say that. I think Mr Hayes was obviously having a bad night and mouthed off last night at the wrong time wrong place with regard to Rob’s mood and perspective. I don’t think Mr Hayes is a notorious negative nelly if that’s a crime. Mr Edwards is one who seems much more to rile people up specifically Rob with constant criticism that I swear must be an attempt at parody? But regardless as others have said, hopefully Rob does his time as I have before, as Colin has etc and will be back and participating at some point.

I can't agree with that at all. If you want a prime example of the utmost negativity, that has to be posters predicting that we are going to lose.

Think about it: at the start of the game, neither side has scored. I still believe it's a level playing field – and that's surely a positive projection because it includes the belief that, depending on how the game plays out, we can win – no matter who the opposition.

To deny that possibility – against any opposition, in any game – is the epitome of negativity and goes against the fundamental positive vibe of playing sport in the first place.

I mean, what is the fucking point if you go by the current form of the teams rather than maintaining that it is a contest in which the team that scores the most goals – irrespective of position record, and reputation – wins that game and gets the points?

If you concede that fundamental principle, then honestly, what on earth is the point of playing the game?

I know this is perhaps simplifying a little, but this is after all, words on a screen. It's a great site, and there is infinitely more discussion and information that there ever is drama.

Sorry, I'm way behind with my reading assignments today, but that was perfectly put:

What has negativity or positivity got to do with anything?

I'm pandering somewhat to the 'negativity' brigade – calling them out, if you will, coz I'm so sick of seeing it on here as a criticism of the very website itself. But you are 100% correct in my book.

That fundamental vibe, and it's a reality - the fact that nothing in the game is certain - kind of leaves positivity and negativity as moot anyway.

Nobody is right or wrong, it's just faith or belief before the fact. Optimism feels better but that's it.

The players' belief is vital. Ours, on here at least, has no real bearing.

* I will add - I do appreciate your dilemma in terms of criticism of the site itself for negativity; no easy answer to that, from your standpoint.

The thread did also feature the comment "Fuck off, Everton, you've once again managed to ruin another bastard weekend for me. Can't fucking stomach them… honestly, I hate the twats. See you in the Bottom 3 in a few weeks." I consider that much more negative than a pregame prediction of defeat.

Predictive or after-the-fact negativity.

Which "Triggers" most? (God, I hate that word!)

Anybody who says "I'm done with this shit show of a club" gets on my fucking goat. If they want to go, just go, but don't come looking for anyone begging you to stay, or anyone from the club come knocking on your door begging you to stay.

I will apologise for my outburst, but I will not apologise to Mike Hayes who followed up by calling a scrum bag and a red shit. What did you expect me to do, sit there and take it?

Yes things have gone pear-shaped again and many of us over react but some are just going too far.

It seems to be the same picture season after season even after a new manager gives us new found optimism and we all are rightly pissed off when it doesn't appear to be happening.

The club as a whole are totally to blame not just the team or the manager who are just employees pulling a pay packet.

Until Moshiri and company pull their fingers out we will stay in the doldrums.

Buying second rate players has contributed to the rot, not just this season but many in recent memory.

Marco Silva did well at Watford and is doing well at Fulham so why was he no good at Everton.
Something must have been amiss when he was in charge at Goodison.

Palace will be another difficult task tomorrow as w all expect unless we can establish control of the game from midfield but will Lampard be brave and drop one or two who are playing poorly ?

Some great stuff in that post. Well said. Nail on head.

Let's not get hung up on the point, but you must admit that the likelihood of us winning against some teams is much greater than others.

Commenting on our chances either in a positive or negative way does not affect the actual result, they are only opinions.

I think supporters get most upset when they have what I would call unrealistic expectations of some results.

Not Frank then...curious?

But context is everything. The poster who consistently posts that dire prediction before every game.

The poster who is pretty much silent while we're playing well but who is right out of the blocks when we concede, giving it both barrels from the blunderbuss of negativity.

The poster who doesn't post after a win but is right in there after a loss, loading that faithful blunderbuss of negativity.

I suspect it's that type of negativity that raises the hackles.

"Blunderbuss – an obsolete short musket with large bore
[my emphasis] and flared muzzle, used to scatter shot at short range".

Rob is the biggest blue I know. He lives, breathes, eats and drinks Everton. His passion is such that he sometimes fails to accept things which fall short of his own idolatry. I wouldn't want him any other way!!

These extremely rare occurrences are, to me, more than counter-balanced by the concise, positive passionate posts he writes. As someone who has only missed less than 10 games (home and away) in over 30 years, he is eminently well-qualified to pontificate on all things Blue.

The (in the rough vicinity of) Menlove Avenue 1 is innocent. Lift the ban and unleash the Blue Kraken!

Over to you, Michael.

Nothing to do with Mike Hayes. Mike Hayes had not even posted anything at all to this or any other thread this month before you went off on one.

This is what got you banned:

Everton fans may well be the best in the country, but believe me, none of those fans exist on this forum.

Unfortunately it's human nature. If you had a nice breakfast at a restaurant and then got fatal food poisoning at lunch, as you're on your death bed if your family says “Well, how was your day?” Would you say “Well, I had a nice breakfast?”

I don't know if the people who only post after a loss realize they're perceived as miserable sods as it seems they only comment on something if they're unhappy, as is the way of most people.

Maybe the rest of the time they're so overcome with positivity they get caught up in ecstatic orgies of excitement and forget to post?

After changing my religion to the other side – you'll know that one.

I hope you return from exile as I know you're a great poster and imagine you're a good bloke. But in the heat of the moment, after the remark about all of us on ToffeeWeb (which I personally forgive and look at as emotional hyperbole after a long journey passionately supporting the club), you did also personally insult Michael Kenrick who had not even been involved in the discussion.

While certainly a bit cantankerous, he does spend an inordinate amount of his time and no doubt some money running this website and giving good posters like yourself a platform to share your views and engage with other quality knowledgeable Evertonians like Dave, John, Colin.

I'm not sure if you knew Brent outside of ToffeeWeb but if not he's another one. I thought that was out of character for you and out of line. Now we've got people piling on Michael who to his credit didn't actually react to that insult. We are all grown-ups here. You're a true Evertonian, well respected and loved on here and it would be poorer without you.

But while I'm not advocating silence if you see injustice, I think there's something to be said about biting the hand that feeds you. The John McFarlane issue seems to have been addressed so why are we bringing it up again, Jeff? Come on. Let's be fair.

I hold Mr Field, his alleged adversary, in the same regard. He too spoke with passion and commitment – both qualities having been massively missing at St James's Park this week.

Both men are passionate Toffees. It's sad, but understandable given the endless woe delivered to us, that they both momentarily maybe lost the plot.

I'd welcome both of them back. We stick together as Toffees!

I'm also sure what Rob said was through frustration after watching another crap performance.

I don't think we need to name names, I know exactly where I sit on the spectrum. I get told often enough by those close to me and anyone on here is welcome to give their view on me. I won't take offence.

Win or lose, I'll comment and give my view on Everton. Good or bad. Lucky or unlucky. Played well, played badly. Made me happy or upset me. Don't like the manager, trying to support the manager. The board, the Chairman or the owner.

Praise or criticism. I think the frustration from many comes from some who are almost primed only to criticise.

Don sums it up very well. It's probably born from decades of decline and frustration. I can understand that to a level and don't doubt they will be cheering on the blues as much as anyone on a matchday.

I can't comment on Newcastle as I was away and didn't see it. I appreciate everyone observes a game and football differently. And they are entitled to it.

But sometimes when you've been to the match and seen the team play well but lose and the fans can see that, as much as the result is frustrating, it's equally frustrating to see people wading in with hysteria based on the binary result. West Ham away springs to mind for a more recent example.

And yes, I know it's a results-based business. Feel dirty calling it a business.

Back to Don's point. We're all passionate Evertonians and we stick together. Always have done. Always will. Regardless of the odd spat and fallout.

As you say, it seems to be the frustration of the moment which got to him. I also see that Rob has offered some kind of apology, which doesn't seem to have been taken on board by the mods.

Just a thought!

You don't get the "I'll be there come what may" dramas from him. He doesn't give us step by step of his journey. or bang on about the obstacles he had to climb over to get there. Like 2500 other regular away followers. He just goes the match.

Newcastle is a horrible ground for Evertonians. It's not just the climb if you are unfortunate enough to sit near their supporters, you are subject to moronic chants like "You stole my stereo". "Sign on" and the side splitting " in your Liverpool slums". Nothing unusual about that, but many of these Geordies spend the entire match facing you. They have no interest in the game. The irony being that many of them look like the havent had a wash or seen a dentist in years!. Then you have the police and stewards falling about laughing as if the chants had just been invented. Having gone all the way up there it can be very difficult to focus on the Match.

I watched the match from the comfort of my armchair. I gave up 100 minutes of my day. The only hardship I faced was finding my Mrs had put the beers right at the back of the fridge.

Robs night was different. He would have boarded a coach full of miserable blues who were desperate for a bevy, only to be told there was problems on the road home. He wasn't getting back until the early hours. Was his commitment on the night greater than mine ? Fucking right it was and his annoyance at listening to bitching from people who have given up about as much of their day as I had, Was for me, at least understandable.

You only have to look at the responses from people who consider Rob a friend to know he didn't mean quite what he said. He was not talking about All TW posters.

I think Brent Stephens is right. There are people who predict we will lose who appear to take a delight in being proved right. Rob must know this and if he made a mistake it was logging into TW in that moment.

I don't know if Rob is even arsed about all of this but we need to remember his circumstances and surroundings at the time. He wasn't sitting in a warm bedroom on his lap top all composed and reasonable.

I understand TW has to have rules, but all things considered, I believe a jury of 12 just Evertonians would throw this case out before they had time to read out the charges.

In other news 1-0 win today!

Being so big an Evertonian, he needs a daily fix of Blue, usually provided by ToffeeWeb. At the moment with a ban, he will feel like an amputee!

You're also right about Newcastle. It is the nearest game for me, including Goodison, but I turned down last week's chance of a ticket because I hate the mini-kopites that they are.

At last seasons game, they were fighting Evertonians against the side of our mini-bus, and the violence is escalating each season.

My favourite memory there was watching 'Tom Tom Cleverley' score a last minute winner after I blagged our way into the lift up to the away end by telling them I was the aforesaid Rob's carer, and needed to stay with him. His recollection naturally differs, but that is down to his sordid relationship with Stella. Of the Artois variety!!

All North East clubs (except Sunderland - who I haven't been to) are horrible in that the Stewards and Police side heavily with the locals, positively goading away support. Middlesborough are as bad as Newcastle. I suspect it's part of being a one team town. Hartlepool and Darlington are as bad, but on a smaller scale.

They must be targeting Blondes with no filter???? 😉😉

I've confronted many opposition supporters directly as that one in particular triggers me. They're usually about 20 years old and from areas of London no different than Speke or Kirkby with no idea of what they're chanting about.

Not violently, I hasten to add. I just ask for an explanation.

I rarely get one.

Good luck today. Sorry I can't be there.

There is very rarely a case for a zero-tolerance approach to posts on the site, particularly for long-time members.

He has told me I was nice whereas I think I'm bitter. Him and my wife should have a conversation so he can convince her. She might give me some points back as she thinks I'm terrible.

I appreciate you have terms and boundaries. Rightfully so. And I genuinely appreciate what you and Michael do in providing this forum. We all push the limits in a moment of raw emotion. We lock horns and virtually fight occasionally. But we all love the same thing and when we meet, so-called foes are best of friends. This is a great place to debate and discuss. Many who otherwise wouldn't have met have become friends on here. Fantastic site.

I guess this means there's no need for the motorcycle to get over the barb-wired fence and he will eventually get his ball back?

Sorry my bad attempt at referring back to the Great Escape comment even though we're trying to get him back in rather than out.

I wouldn't like to see Rob on a motorcycle to be honest. It would likely end in disaster and ToffeeWeb would crash. Literally.

Dave # 378, that is an excellent post, and exactly sums up the night last week, thank you. I honestly don't think some on here actually think of the supporters who have spent a lot of time and money travelling to these midweek games. Getting baited by Newcastle fans during the match, then on our way out re Benitez is bad enough, but then to get on a coach with the thought of a three hour journey, and seeing some of the tripe being posted on here, particularly by some who say "I'm done with this shit show of a club", and you wonder why I flipped.

I'm not proud of what I said, and I apologise for the "Everton may have the best supporters in the country, but believe me, none of them are on this forum" quote. That was said in the heat of the moment. Of course, I have met some fantastic people through TW, many of whom are regular posters on here, as well as go to the match. So does Michael Kenrick, or anybody else think I would include said people in that quote? Of course not.

So once again, I apologise for the outburst, but that does not extend to the person who caused me to flip, unless one comes my way from him. Also thanks to everyone for the support, particularly Danny. Danny may well go on a bit on here, but believe me, he is a fantastic person having met him a few times, and yes, he will be joining my "Goodison Gang" on our next European adventure.