Everton 0 - 2 Leicester City

Everton struggled from the very first minute of their final home game before the Premier League goes on hiatus for the 2022 World Cup and it could have been a rout for rampant Leicester City, who ran the entire game. 

Frank Lampard stuck with his current first-choice defence despite Nathan Patterson being ready to come in for Seamus Coleman. However, Gordon sat out the start after his very poor performance last week, with McNeil starting. 

The game started under the Goodison lights with The Foxes kicking off and coming perilously close to scoring in their first attack! Everton tried to get forward but it was the visitors who found huge spaces, Daka scuffing his free shot at Pickford. Everton tried to break out and got a good high press going with Calvert-Lewin setting up Iwobi perfectly who hopelessly shot wide with the goal gaping.

But the visitors were dominating play and controlling the tempo of the game, Maddison playing in a good cross that was screwed wide.  Iwobi tried to play in Calvert-Lewin with a great through ball but it got a heavy touch from Everton’s No 9 and ran away from him through to Ward.

Gray got more involved, switching sides, but he was too selfish with an awful shot high and wide. There was little or no press from Everton as the Foxes continued to set the tone. Coleman broke up an attack but Everton could not keep the ball, which came through to Maddison and he shot inches wide.

Everton showed a little more composure with some better passing until it was lost in the final third, forcing them to drop back. They tried again to play it forward but it kept coming back to Pickford, the slow build-up from the back not working very convincingly, the hoof upfield from Pickford even less so, just conceding possession.  

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Leicester attacked again with players streaming into acres of space, Dewsbury-Hall lashing the ball over the Everton goal. Calvert-Lewin played in Iwobi who won a corner that was well-headed goalward by Tarkowski, forcing a fine save from Ward.

There was a big groan when Gueye did what he seems to specialize in, giving the ball away very cheaply in midfield. He then fouled Maddison, setting up a dangerous free-kick that Pickford batted away, before Gray was fouled.

More terrible play out from the back saw Gueye play a horrible ball to Onana, and the Foxes pounced again, causing absolute chaos in the frantic Everton defence, and winning a corner off a dangerous shot.  But nothing really came from it.

Everton were so slow in midfield and being picked off like flies, Iwobi next to be carpet-bagged, setting up another fearsome Leicester attack. The quality of Everton’s play had dropped noticeably from poor to downright abysmal. 
After another spell of poor football, Calvert-Lewin somehow got in a good run but his shot at the end of it was easily blocked.

Everton tried to play it forward again but, yet again, Gueye gave the ball generously to the visitors. Gueye then redeemed himself fractionally by winning the ball back but nothing came of it. Tarkowski was next to gift the ball shockingly to Leicester who surged forward, Maddison’s scuffed shot deflected inches wide. From the corner, Leicester seemed to have another three chances to score but still they somehow failed. 

Everton built something approaching a rare attack that finally saw Coleman force a corner. Onana had it fly directionless off the top of his head and over the bar. From that Daka somehow flashed into the Everton area past everyone and shot at Pickford – the Everton goal leading a remarkably charmed life.

But not for much longer: a better Everton attack saw McNeil set up Iwobi for a good header that came off a defender. The game stopped for a rocket on the pitch! After the restart, Leicester streamed forward again and finally forced the fully deserved breakthrough with a brilliant trademark strike from Tielamans.  

An absolutely shocking half from Everton finished with another erratic attack that saw Onana trying to fashion a shot as he was crowded out. None of the passion and intensity that blew away Crystal Palace a fortnight ago.  Instead, Leicester City should be out of sight. Remarkable that Everton have given up only one goal in the first half. 

Frank had a rare moment of game management clarity, taking off the dreadful Gueye for James Garner for the restart. Everton winning a corner immediately. There were appeals for handball as Leicester responded but it was off Teilmans’s body.

Iwobi did very well to set up Calvert-Lewin for a golden chance but he tried to flick the ball past Ward rather than smashing it into the net, and the keeper saved it with his feet. Daka was gifted another chance but he lashed it high and wide. Everton attacked and Onana was wiped out, but the ref played advantage and the attack failed to create a chance. 

Everton got forward and won a corner that was well delivered by Garner, but too close to Ward, who was fouled by Tarkowski. Garner did exceptionally well to steal the ball but then his cutback was hopeless. 

With Everton attacking, a turnover saw Daka was again fed another long ball to run onto with Pickford ay out of his area, rescued by good work from Mykolenko. Maddison then had a good run in and smacked the ball at the post with Pickford beaten. 

Calvert-Lewin felt something and Maupay immediately replaced him, Doucoure also replacing Onana. McNeil and Maupay tried to force their way through, getting a corner, Garner’s delivery again punched away by Ward. It was worked around until Leicester could break at speed.

Leicester were cutting through the Everton defence but thankfully not getting close enough to score again. Still, the visitors were knocking the ball about with confidence, Everton lacking intensity to force the turnover.

Everton fashioned something of an attack but then two more changes from Frank, who seemed to finally understand the 5-sub rule.  But still Everton could not really influence the game, Leicester continuing to control things and pass the ball around at will.

Patterson tried to play through but lost the ball and Barnes went on a run of his own, shooting tamely at Pickford. Gray tried to run at the packed Leicester defence only to be easily dispossessed and Leicester built yet another dangerous attack that came so close to giving them another goal. 

Into the final 10 minutes and Everton tried another attack and won another corner from Garner that did not beat the first man. Everton tried to work the ball around but it was just not happening. Patterson wasted a chance to cross, overhitting it. 

Leicester moved up and won a corner, that was headed tamely by Faes. Everton once again tried to build something but just went sideways until Tarkowski lofted the ball forward but out of play. Everton moved it around, trying to threaten until the ball was lost by Doucoure and Maddison surged forward, setting up Barnes for the killer blow.

As if that wasn’t bad enough, Maupay with a lazy giveaway invited Barnes to stream forward and it needed a vital stop from Pickford to deny Leicester City a third goal that would sadly have been fully deserved. 

What an absolutely abysmal display after Everton had showed what they are capable of against Crystal Palace when they play with desire and intensity.  A massive backward step. 

Everton:  Pickford, Coleman (71’ Patterson), Tarkowski, Coady, Mykolenko, Iwobi, Gana (46’ Garner), Onana  (61’ Doucoure), Gray, McNeil (71’ Gordon), Calvert-Lewin (61’ Maupay).
Subs not Used:  Begovic, Keane, Holgate, Davies.

Leicester City: Ward, Castagne, Amartey, Faes, Justin, Soumare (70' Ndidi), Maddison, Tielemans (90+1' Mendy), Dewsbury-Hall (78' Albrighton), Barnes, Daka (70' Vardy).
Subs not Used: Iheanacho, Perez, Vestergaard, Iversen, Thomas.

Kick-off: 5:30 pm, Saturday 5 November 2022
Referee: David Coote
VAR: Paul Tierney

Reader Comments (348)

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Neil Lawson
1 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:34:09
Surprised that Patterson isn't starting but McNeil in makes sense. A scruffy win will do.
Rob Hooton
2 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:35:24
Looks like Frank and I had the same idea, really hope it works.

Surprised to see Coleman start but we know he'll give his all so no drama.


George Cumiskey
3 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:38:47
I would've played Maupay in place of Gray.
Christine Foster
4 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:40:05
I think that's a good call dropping Gordon, it might be the kick up the pants he needs.
Mike Gaynes
5 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:43:26
George, no way you don't give Gray a chance to play against the team that dumped him. He'll be ready to run his legs off.
Kieran Kinsella
6 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:48:41
Not looking good for Gordon's Link
Christy Ring
7 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:48:43
Gray definitely deserves to start.
Christopher Timmins
8 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:50:46
Should be 3 points coming our way!
Alan J Thompson
9 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:51:58
The one glaring deficiency is the lack of strikers on the bench.
Mike Morgan
10 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:52:57
I beleve the selection is good. Gordon was very poor last game and needs re-setting. Encouraging to see the bench looking stronger. The only detail is we have no cover if left back gets injured. Surely would make sense to have Vinagre available.

Guess this problem will go away when Godfrey is fit as he can cover CH and LB. Whilst Holgate can cover CH and RB. Certainly a stronger-looking squad. But need to win today to avoid getting dragged towards Bottom 3 which would wreck any confidence.

Pete Hughes
11 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:54:17
Christopher @7
Why 'should' it be 3pts? Leicester are improving rapidly and will be a tough nut to crack!
Joe McMahon
12 Posted 05/11/2022 at 16:59:10
Alan, the lack of strikers, full stop.
Alan J Thompson
13 Posted 05/11/2022 at 17:03:21
Joe (#11);

Thank heavens for that, Joe, as had you said "period" I might have thought it was a medical problem.

Joe McMahon
14 Posted 05/11/2022 at 17:06:12
Alan, now that would be a "Bloody Mess"!
Derek Knox
15 Posted 05/11/2022 at 17:30:04
Kieran @ 6, how are you mate ? That link did nowt !
Paul Kossoff
16 Posted 05/11/2022 at 17:32:36
I would play Marlowe in centre mid and Patterson in defense. I'm sure The Foxes will target Coleman so we need pace.


Derek Knox
17 Posted 05/11/2022 at 17:41:18
Paul @ 16,

Marlowe? Is he a player we have signed that I have never heard of?

Pete Hughes
18 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:14:20
How the fuck we are still in this game is an absolute mystery?
Craig Walker
19 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:19:34
Onana has to do more. We keep losing the ball in midfield and playing backwards.

Atmosphere seems really flat and so far it's one of those lifeless displays where the centre-halves just knock it around amongst themselves and then back to Pickford.

Ernie Baywood
20 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:20:52
Need to do something about this midfield. The centre of our team wants nothing to do with the ball. Can't carry on like this.
Danny Baily
21 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:21:35
Get Marlowe on!
Jim Bennings
22 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:23:41
Unfortunately this is what happens when you can't score goals.

You look at Leicester's midfield and its head and shoulders above ours in terms of creativity.

Tielemans and Maddison and Barnes are running the show.

Onana is a walking disaster area right now.

Tom Bowers
23 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:23:45
Every game for the Blues will be a ''tough nut'' to crack until the offense is improved.

What we have is lukewarm and once again we will need big defensive performances to help get the result.

A lot of funny results in the Premier League over the last few weeks.

Seems like some players are trying to avoid injury unless it throws their World Cup selection out of the window.

After Marco Silva's show of sour grapes last week, what will he say after what happened at the Etihad today?

Leicester can play a bit so we need the midfielders to keep tight control today.

Derek Knox
24 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:26:28
Danny, would that be Marsh Marlowe? Too soft in my opinion!
Brian Murray
25 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:27:04
Asking a lot of Onana to control midfield in this fierce league, need to do a Fellaini and move him further up
Alan J Thompson
26 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:29:12
What a load of crap! I thought we were supposed to be the home side but all we've done is sit back and let them have possession and space. This is awful!

The back four have to move further forward than just outside our own penalty area, midfield looks lost as they have so much ground to cover and up front it looks so amateurish.

Gray and McNeil might as well not be out there for all they have done and Calvert-Lewin is looking like the non-striker we have worried about him being.

What happened to the high-press many-bodied energy game? It's all back in our own half with so much space between our lines.

For heaven's sake, somebody get a grip as – if they are Bottom 3 – then heaven help us!

George Cumiskey
27 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:33:08
No press whatsoever.

McNeil and Gray anonymous.

Pickford had the most touches for us!

Brian Hennessy
28 Posted 05/11/2022 at 18:34:17
Agree about Onana, he is having a really poor game and not just when he has the ball. He is taking up really strange positions and offering no option to our defenders or to Gana when we have the ball in our half.

I would like to see James Garner and Doucoure on for Onana and McNeil. We need four in midfield and two up top.

Matthew Williams
29 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:10:10
Truth be told... we've been totally clueless in this game tonight, so far.

Lacklustre Blues yet again, sigh.

Jim Bennings
30 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:18:18
Piss poor, this Everton team, let's face it.

Another grave battle to stay up with a team that can't score a goal or threaten the opposition.

We didn't do enough in that summer transfer window to rectify the lack of goals last season.

Craig Walker
31 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:18:20
They're better than us. We never sign players like Maddison or Barnes.

Very poor tonight. Another false dawn with Onana, Gueye etc. We sold the wrong forward.

Jim Bennings
32 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:19:36
We'd be having wet dreams if we had Leicester's midfield, but knowing us, we'd probably train the ability out of them.
Michael Fox
33 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:20:40
That was piss-poor.
Alan McGuffog
34 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:21:31
Another year, another relegation battle.

Groundhog bloody Day.

Ciarán McGlone
35 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:22:11
Awful atmosphere and looked all over after their goal. Zero threat and so lazy in closing down.

MotM... Marlowe.

Simon Dalzell
36 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:22:18
Tedious. We're just so poor.
Jim Bennings
37 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:23:53
Why don't we ever sign players that actually look like they have seen a football before?
George Cumiskey
38 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:25:36
A two-nil hammering. Grays turn to be the worst player on the pitch and play for 90 minutes, and then then the cunning plan Leicester brought on Doucouré to seal the game!
Danny Baily
39 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:26:50
So we still need 7 wins. Let's hope we get one on the road to take the pressure off ahead of the international break.
Nick Page
40 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:27:05
Fuck off, Everton you're absolutely shite, and a horrible let-down. Fucking awful. Don't deserve the support.
Michael Fox
41 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:28:46
I have to say I didn't want Frank, but we are playing better football and he has instilled a better attitude so I will keep stum and support him. Come on Frank prove me wrong.
Pat Kelly
42 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:29:26
Lampard is never going to cut it. Bite bullet and get him out. Most of his acquisitions just aren’t good enough and he can’t get a tune out of the squad.
Neil Lawson
43 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:32:33
Rubbish. Just rubbish.

Thank heavens for T20 cricket, the Rugby League World Cup and the gymnastics.

Total rubbish. Rubbish. Bin collection Monday.

Ian Edwards
44 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:32:41
Leicester had 22 shots. What an indictment of our two defensive midfielders, who are both shite.

Two useless wingers. One up front with not much service.

Is this team any better than the one that was nearly relegated last season??

The answer is No. Lampard badly needs a win at Bournemouth next week or he could find himself replaced by Bobby Brown Shoes after the World Cup.

Christine Foster
45 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:33:44
Poor, very disheartening, we never looked like we wanted it, second to everything. Totally out-played in midfield and in terms of organisation. We looked like a bunch of players who have never played together.

Calvert-Lewin? Sad to say but I think we may not see him till next year if we are lucky. Maupay? No impression at all. Only blessing is the season's break coming up. Tarkowski won't be going anywhere on that performance... except Sydney!

Maddison ran that game... should have been man-marked. He made Gana and Onana look like what they are, one-pace blockers. Iwobi was probably the best of a bad bunch.

But jeez... what's the point? It was crap.

Joe McMahon
46 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:35:17
I'm beginning to think Rafa didn't do that much wrong (injuries were far worse for him).

I didn't want Silva to be sacked, and the tactics with the current manager are too negative with a clueless midfield and what strikers we have who are certainly not regular goalscorers (or quality).

It's the same every season, we just don't score goals. The worry is Bournemouth will put us in the Bottom 3 for the World Cup break.

A one-off cup in 36 years, what has happened to this club?!

Alan J Thompson
47 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:35:30
Because of Optus usual rubbish service I probably missed at least 30% of the second half but we started it by playing higher up the ground and it looked a lot better, not that it lasted any longer.

That really was rubbish and a lot of it has to go down to Lampard. Unless there were injuries, then the substitutions didn't make a lot of sense.

We really must find a striker somewhere but it was lost in the first half. Can somebody tell me why Doucoure was sent on?

Total crap!

Kieran Kinsella
48 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:36:07
My 6-0 prediction was ambitious in hindsight
Brian Murray
49 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:38:55
Frank has a hell of a lot to do if he thinks he will walk us out at the new stadium. Always thought it's a long shot, given the shelf life of managers nowadays.
Steavey Buckley
50 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:39:35
Everton aren't going to dominate and control midfield with Gana and Onana, both these players give the ball away too easy.

Onana is finding the game is passing him by, he gets lost and bewildered when he is in the opposition's penalty area.

Once Everton can get a grip of the midfield with better players, there is a chance they can get out of the relegation threat.

Tony Hill
51 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:41:45
We’re in trouble again. Atrocious.
George Cumiskey
52 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:44:57
He's gotta start with a team that will try and win, not one that will try and contain and hope to scrape a goal.

Sad to say, if Calvert-Lewin is injured, it won't be much of a miss.

Ajay Gopal
53 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:45:13
Ooof, that was a tough watch – totally out-played, out-thought by a smart manager and a much better quality of players. How do Leicester keep finding such fantastic centre-backs?

Their Belgian centre-back, Faes, was terrific. And their midfield of Maddison, Tielemans, Barnes and Dewsbury-Hall is almost Man City quality.

Our midfield is sadly nowhere close. Gueye was decent in patches, but Onana for me was the biggest drag on our team – Garner needs to play in his place. And Doucoure? Oh dear...

We were outplayed but, at the end of the day, we were undone by 2 wonder strikes although we could have lost by more. However, Iwobi and Calvert-Lewin had excellent chances and should have scored.

No complaints about the result, but looking at the other scores and performances, I worry that this will be another tight finish to the end of the season with no clear-cut favourites for relegation.

Jim Bennings
54 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:48:40
Everton and Lampard put far too much faith in the "Calvert-Lewin will be fit soon" basket.

I'd be surprised if Calvert-Lewin is ever the same athletic centre-forward he was 2 years ago, such is the continuous nature of his injuries. Without his athleticism, he's not really a great player anyway.

We should have signed better options in the summer, the signing of Maupay was just weird considering we don't play the way Brighton did and Maupay is not a physical presence.

The signing of McNeil was even more mind-boggling.

Onana looks like he needs to start from scratch with a ball at his feet; it's been a while since I've seen a player with such a poor technique on the ball… massive money spent on him but, so far, is he better than what we just let leave in Allan?

All-in-all, it's been a hugely depressing start to the season with one or two positives but mostly tedium and frustration followed by absolute shitness.

Mark Murphy
55 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:54:14
Frank was taken to school today. Howie would have told Reidy to do a number on Maddison and we'd win that.

Calvert-Lewin will get back to his best, Tarkowski and Coady are the best centre-back pairing in the league and, with Patterson and Mykolenko, we have a solid defence.

Best goalie in England and Iwobi at #10. I think we're getting there. UTFT

Kieran Kinsella
56 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:59:02
It's unfortunate Gueye and Onana are out of form at the same time and that Tarkowski had a stinker. Gordon and Gray are always hit and miss so we just had too many poor performers today.

But it's one game. I imagine we will reinforce in January and there are positives this season as opposed to last. No need for mass panic.

Colin Glassar
57 Posted 05/11/2022 at 19:59:32
As on the Live Forum, you are spot on, Mark. We'll be mid-table okay.

January could be a season-changer.

Jim Bennings
58 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:02:53

It's not really one game though, is it?

Not when you think we've failed to score in four of the last five games and probably in three of them we haven't even looked like scoring.

Our home form throughout 2022 has been abysmal, that was our 9th home defeat of the calendar year, Goodison used to be a hard place for teams to win.

I don't know what will happen in January but we absolutely need a centre-forward and I'm not being cruel here but this is to replace Calvert-Lewin – not just sit there as piss-poor backup, à la Rondon, Maupay or Tosun.

We are crying out for a creative midfielder to help Iwobi too, as there's nothing else in the side to do anything with the ball.

Ray Jacques
59 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:03:53
They have better players than us in most positions, especially midfield.

We were well beaten. We have no pace anywhere on the pitch.

There is progress from last season but only to the extent that we are a Bottom 6 team – not a Bottom 3 contender.


Joe McMahon
60 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:05:17
Mark, what have a manager and player from 37 years ago got to do with 2022?

Please don't put your hopes on Calvert-Lewin, why do you think no-one else has bid for him?

Derek Taylor
61 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:06:56
Anybody got the stat re how many backward passes our lot played – particularly in first half?
Bill Gall
62 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:07:05
This game was decided before the game started with the Leicester manager out-thinking the Everton manager in game-management.

As I wrote on the Live Forum, you watch videos of the training sessions at Finch Farm with the Everton players pinging the ball about to fellow players in congested areas with no problem but, in the game, they try impossible passes to marked players.

70% of the time Everton players control the ball and look for someone to pass to, Leicester players were passing the ball as soon as controlling it, knowing where a player was.

Lampard is a young manager learning and hopefully he will learn a lot from this game. I still believe that we are looking at 10th to 14th place, but we will have to improve as this was more Bottom 5.

Ian Edwards
63 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:15:28
I say this every week but this formation is crap. It doesn't protect the defence and doesn't create enough chances.

If Lampard doesn't change it, then he will end up at the dole office.

John Keating
64 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:16:17
Awful performance individually and as a team. Everything about the Palace game was missing today.

I don't question Lampard's starting 11 or his substitutions. His team were just not up for it.

Prior to Palace, I felt we needed a minimum of 7 points. So, 3 at Bournemouth are a must.

Gana and Onana, especially, need a right kick up the arse! Simply, those two in particular… but the whole team just not good enough.

Clive Rogers
65 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:16:50
Joe, 46,

“What happened to this club?”

Kenwright happened.

Simon Dalzell
66 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:18:31
£35 million for McNeil and Maupay.
Mark Murphy
67 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:19:28
Ian, I agree.

First five minutes it was obvious – they attacked and defensive midfield was nowhere to be seen! I thought that was Gana's job? Still don't understand why we let Allan go?

Ian Edwards
68 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:20:38
Lampard has said Onana and Gueye will have scans on Monday.

Getting them out of the team will be a blessing.

Christy Ring
69 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:22:00
Looking for Lampard to be sacked, utter rubbish.

Maddison ran the show, Mykolenko couldn't deal with him,

Onana should have gone at halftime ahead of Gueye. Midfield very poor, and looking at Doucoure, Davies is a better option in my opinion.

Still, I don't believe in all the negativity.

Pat Kelly
70 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:24:01
Who scouted Onana, Gueye, McNeil and Maupay? What did they see in them?

Money down the drain and the season written off. Lampard must carry the can.

Ted Donnelly
71 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:25:07
Perfect example of passing 5 yards forward then 15 yards backwards... we're in need of a midfielder who can drive the team forward and can keep the ball... as well as everything else... obviously!!
Chris Leyland
72 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:25:41
Just got back home. That was woeful and painful to witness. We were lucky to get nil.

Not a single player came out of that with any credit. Too slow, too conservative and too casual. Underhit forward passes, too many backwards and sideways passes, and a slowness to close them down.

Maddison had the freedom of the park. Roll on the World Cup break as that was reminiscent of last season.

Sean O’Hanlon
73 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:26:35
We have to accept the fact that we inherit players who lack consistency. We have a "mini rave" when we win a game, and all the crap is forgotten. It's Groundhog Day, every season.

Lampard – nice guy, but what are his credentials? Any decent manager who knows the club, gave us a wide berth.

I sincerely believe that relegation is our salvation; otherwise, we have to go through this same old crap every season: new manager, new players, but same old results.

We are not a Premier League club. Fortress Goodison is made of paper, not granite. I've had enough, just so depressing.

Thank God a great win by Ireland over world champions South Africa. We see how a team with skill, commitment, spirit and great management can achieve. Sadly Everton possess none of these attributes.

Ben King
74 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:26:56
Our attacking play is so poor, so unimaginative, boring and drab.

Such a painful watch.

Mark Murphy
75 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:29:50
Sorry, Joe – you're right, we're fucked!

Well done, mate.

Dave Lynch
76 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:30:24
One thing... Calvert-Lewin will never be a threat upfront.
He's not physical enough, gets bullied off the ball to easy.
Peter Dodds
77 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:31:00
Exactly, Bill @72. a team that struggles to pass to their own players, trap the ball, or play their way around a tight press. And when the opposition closes in, they'll try another 50/50 floated pass that just puts the receiver under pressure and loses possession.

The much-vaunted Coady - Tarkowski partnership is good at blocking the ball but not so much about getting us up the pitch. Onana is ponderous, offers little going forward – contrast the Leicester midfield, which immediately stormed towards the goal as soon as they received the ball.

Gana gave the ball away constantly tonight. Pickford's distribution was woeful and he positively seemed to ignore the open Gana for much of the first half.

We spent £70M in the summer and look barely any better than last season. The strategy of building from the back has proved to be flawed – we needed a more balanced approach to team development.

We shine intermittently – eg, against a very poor Palace, and for a few minutes here and there in the first half tonight. The rest of the time, it's second-rate stuff.

We've now won just one point per game under Frank over more than 30 games. This is sackable territory. I don't want to see him go but, by God, we need to see sustained improvements.

Paul Hewitt
78 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:33:17
So much negativity. Yes we where poor, but it's going to take Frank time too turn this team around.
Gary Johnson
79 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:36:20
Make no mistake, we are again in a relegation fight… can see us in Bottom 3 over World Cup now.

Being nice, Frank is naive, and we are toothless and shapeless. For me, get rid and get someone else in ASAP to work with players over break. Don't give me the “who would come” bollocks, Villa just got Emery. Managers are out there.

Ian Edwards
80 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:38:42
Peter 77. Spot on totally.
Sean Kelly
81 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:40:12
Just reading the other article headline: Gray has found his purpose (running into cul de sacs) Gueye knows what Everton means to him (a big pay cheque) and Frank feels like an Evertonian (depressed).

For fuck's sake, let the football do the talking instead of your arse.

Rob Dolby
82 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:43:59
What a wake up call this is for Lampard.

Rogers gave him a lesson tonight.

Being a smart arse playing Onana as some weird inside left forward backfired. He should have been slotted next to Gana to play as a defensive centre mid with Iwobi playing further advanced.

It was obvious from the start, Onana didn't have a clue where or what he was supposed to be doing. He got the ball in their box and turned back to pass it to Coady on the halfway line!

Gana needed help in that first half and for nothing from Onana.

We need to drop a winger and play Garner. We have 3 wingers that produce next to no quality.

Looks like Calvert-Lewin will be out for a while. We need to get 2 strikers in January. Maupay is just not good enough.

Collectively, a bad night all round, especially for Lampard. Iwobi or Mykolenko for my MotM.

Kunal Desai
83 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:45:42
Shite, ruderless garbage. No creativity and bog standard ordinary midfield. The defence which in fairness has been holding out since the start of the season is stretched and is showing.

I've resigned to the fact that I won't be witnessing anything remotely like the side which dominated and won trophies from the 80s for the remainder of my lifetime. I'm fortunate to witness that side and some of the exilerating football that cane with the side.

I'd take right now for a Moyes final season side or Martinez first season, but again those sides are a pipedream now.

This just feels like the Kendall mark 2/3 and Walter Smith days, just surprised we are not playing either Tarkowski or Coady upfront.

Nothing is changing.

Dave Abrahams
84 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:47:16
Just so embarrassing watching how poor we were in all parts of the field compared to Leicester who were so comfortable with the ball and each other while we didn't seem to know our arse from our elbow, we were really that poor.

Gana must have been injured otherwise Onana would have been replaced at half-time. If he is going to be the player some of us think he could be, he wants to get his arse into gear and start shaping up. Doucoure was an improvement on him simply because he was breathing… not sure if Onana was.

No Man of the Match tonight from that performance, maybe who was less bad than the rest of them? No standout in that department either as far as I could see… possibly one of the subs who didn't come on!!

Pat Kelly
85 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:47:42
It's like we're playing without a manager. We are.
Tony Hill
86 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:51:44
We just pose no threat. That’s why we are going to keep struggling. The idea that we are going to land a serious striker in January is hugely optimistic. We have had 6 years to fix this.
Ian Edwards
87 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:55:29
I don't believe it's the lack of a striker. We just continually play one up front isolated with no service. It's happened for years.

Christy Ring
90 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:57:05
Tuesday: play Davies, Garner and Iwobi in midfield.
Ian Edwards
91 Posted 05/11/2022 at 20:58:13
No no no Christy. We need to stop this 2 DM crap
Rob Dolby
92 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:00:24
Ian 87.

We need goals, we need strikers. We do only play 1 up top but if that one is Mauphey we may as well all go home.

Leicester played with 2 DMS, why can't we?

Pat Kelly
93 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:05:19
Can we stop excusing Lampard as a young manager who's learning?

This is the Premier League, for fuck's sake. It's not an apprenticeship scheme. We're not here to train managers. And pay them millions to get experience.

Ian Riley
94 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:12:49
Rogers had a plan and it worked from the 1st minute.

Leicester have very good players. We were showed up today and we had no response. Am I forgetting something but we stayed in this league by our fingertips.

Staying up will be an achievement. It's a rebuild but Frank is under pressure. New stadium and relegation possible will see Frank gone. I'm not into don't sack a manager because we have sacked many. Our win ratio under Frank means relegation is a possibility.

We play a very open game. Tighten things up. Need to work harder. Next game is about 3 points and nothing else.

Brendan McLaughlin
95 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:14:22
Leicester are a decent side who were going through a bad patch but in recent games have started to get their act together.

We're a poor side who occasionally go through a very limited good patch but tonight reverted to type.

Don't know what the answer is but what worries me more is... don't think Frank does either.

Brian Wilkinson
96 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:37:28
Tuesday night start with Doucoure, Garner and Warrington in midfield, and bring Mills in for Gray.

Do that and we will see off Bournemouth.

Bobby Mallon
97 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:42:36
Brendan @95, I agree
Robert Tressell
98 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:43:47
Ian # 91.

There is nothing wrong with 2 DCMs. Leicester just played 2 deep DCMs against us (albeit technicians rather than tacklers).

The issue is getting an overall structure that works.

Like others, I couldn't get what we were trying to do with Onana. For me he should collecting the ball from deep and using his skill, physique and passing range to beat the press. Gueye is hopeless at this. He's the tackler and hunter of the ball.

We need to be patient with Onana because he has talent. It may take a while unfortunately - just like it did with Soumare of Leicester, his predecessor at Lille.

Iwobi was our best player by a mile today. One-touch football. Imaginative passing. And one 60-yard dash back to make a vital slide tackle.

Perhaps Garner will help glue it all together better than Gueye.

Perhaps Lampard needs to ask himself a few questions too about the awful midfield balance.

Roy Johnstone
99 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:47:11
Mark @55.

My thoughts exactly. Dele Alli came on in this fixture last year and did Maddison within 5 minutes. Second half today, he was chatting to Garner all the time. Moved straight into his head and started to redecorate.

Tom Davies would have been a far better sub for the frankly useless Onana.

Jack Ledwidge
100 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:47:52
Most games are won or lost in midfield. This is an area we are woefully weak.

Onana may be one for the future but he strikes me as someone who believes he's far better than he actually is. Gana is a shadow of his former self.

Tonight's display was timid and at no stage did we look like threatening. The January transfer window is crucial. Yes, we need a couple of strikers but, more importantly, an attacking midfielder that doesn't go backwards like so many of ours who seem to be programmed into backward passing.

One bright side: I thought Iwobi again demonstrated the will to try and create something. One positive on a gloomy evening.

Michael Kenrick
101 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:49:59

I don't think we'll see Lewis Warrington playing for Everton on Tuesday night. I think he might be out on loan somewhere.

Oliver Molloy
102 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:50:16
Bournemouth can score goals, we haven't a fucking clue!
I thought Doucoure when he came on looked extremely rusty and clumsy as fuck.

Today showed we lack quality throughout the team – we need sorting and quick.

Brian Wilkinson
103 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:52:46
Not sure about a mile, Robert, I thought Mykolenko was everywhere today, covering both flanks, up and down the pitch, and some timely tackles, dug Pickford out of a big hole second half.

I would go along with Iwobi picking some good passes out and agree yet again, even after a poor miss, was the only one getting the ball forward. On that basis, I also thought Iwobi was our best player, with Mykolenko the only other to at least have a go.

Correct Michael, forgot we loaned Warrington to Fleetwood.

I would still give Mills a start though.

Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 05/11/2022 at 21:57:33
I'd love to see us play with two DCM's right now, because if that was the case, at least we would have two midfielders in touching distance of each other.

You don't win football matches without aggression, and that's why we got what we deserved tonight, it really is that plain and simple imo.

Ian Edwards
105 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:02:23
Tony 104.

Two DCMs is anti football and one of them should be sacrificed at home for a second striker.

Gary Johnson
106 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:05:19
Tony #104 - spot on.

Tell any two of Gana, Onana & Garner to sit there and stay there, for fuck's sake. Stop playing Coleman and Gray too.

Got to go back to a 3 next week and pray we can rob a draw. Don't bollocks round in the cup game, play the team that'll play at the weekend.

Coady Mina Tarkowski
Patterson Garner Iwobi Mykolenko
Gordon Maupay McNeil

Gary Johnson
107 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:09:16
Ian #105,

One of them (Onana as a weird Fellaini clone) was sacrificed today. The result was that Maddison had a field day in the gaping hole between defence and midfield.

Rob Dolby
108 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:09:19
Tony 104,

After 10 mins it looked obvious that Onana didn't have a clue where he should be playing. Lampard should have changed it then.

Why play the lad out of position when Gana was being stretched trying to pick up the runs of Dewsbury-Hall and Maddison?

Their movement impressed me tonight. Like us, they need a cutting edge now that Vardy has lost his edge.

Peter Mills
109 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:14:57
I can’t defend that performance in any way, we were very poor.
Michael Murphy
110 Posted 05/11/2022 at 2022/11/05 : 22:16:15

Just sat watching this awful embarrassing team…  they are lacklustre, no clue as to what to do once they cross the half-way line!!

Today showed just how bad they are. We have been waiting forever for Calvert-Lewin to come back and we rely on him solely upfront!! We signed a couple of decent defenders in the summer, but we have no creative players who can make things happen.

Leicester pissed all over us today!  We need some players who are prepared to run at defences. For god's sake, I am sick of seeing Everton being totally overrun at home – it's embarrassing!!

I believe Lukaku is out on loan at AC Milan, why the fuck were we not in there quick to get his signature on loan?? He was the best striker we have had for years!! 

Mike Price
111 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:16:35
We have poor players and a very limited manager. I don't want Lampard to try to build something better, because he isn't the right stuff. We need a change because we are just throwing good money after bad otherwise.

That home performance was an abject embarrassment and Lampard has shown nothing to demonstrate he's a decent manager, never mind an elite one.

It's ridiculous but you look at so-called poor teams like Leeds, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford et al and I'd rather watch any of them than the turgid crap that we have to endure.

We're Everton and we are shamefully poor.

Robert Tressell
112 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:19:11

4-2-3-1 is not anti-football if it provides the solid base for a footballing side, as Leicester showed today. We don't have anyone in Tielemans's league though unfortunately. Soumare also had a very good game reading the play and beating our press with very crisp short passing.

And good point, Brian #103. Mykolenko was absolutely excellent defensively today.

Steve Griffiths
113 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:23:08
Tony (104),

I'd just like to see us play with two midfielders who can actually do what an all-round midfielder is supposed to do, close down, win the ball, and then pass with quality.

Gana Gueye is DCM (I hate all these new-fangled descriptions of positions etc.) who can close down and tackle, but his distribution is woeful.

Onana may be one for the future (the jury is out); however, I think he's part of the problem at the minute, because his positional sense is severely lacking.

I agree you don't win football matches without aggression, but it has to be controlled and considered. I think class and quality is more important in the Premier League and I'd be inclined to try Garner and Iwobi together.

The problem then is a lack of quality out wide and upfront (now Calvert-Lewin is. Injured again); maybe Stanley Mills might be worth a go out wide? Can't be any worse than Gordon and Gray.

Sam Hoare
114 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:27:51
Some great teams have played 4-2-3-1 and the DCMs do not need to be ‘tackling machines'.

Tonight was very poor. Lacking intensity and fight and composure. All season, we have struggled to create and the only reason we haven't conceded more goals is Pickford's excellent form.

It's worrying. And it's hard to look beyond another relegation battle on the horizon. Losing Calvert-Lewin is a real blow because, as limited as he's been, he at least gives us a focal point. Maupay has been pretty woeful.

I remain sceptical about Lampard's management skills beyond being nice and saying some of the right things.

Difficult to call how the rest of the season pans out; I would not be surprised if we finished anywhere between 12the and 20th. How I long for “6th-ish” and the knowledge that we'd usually win more than we'd lose.

Danny Baily
115 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:32:52
This is the wrong time to talk about changing manager. The morale in the dressing room is holding up and we've got points on the board.

We're doing as well as we could reasonably expect to do. Games are decided on fine margins; we could have sneaked a win today, though we wouldn't have deserved it.

I wouldn't hesitate to jettison Frank if it looked like we were odds on to go down. But as things stand, three teams are ahead of us in the relegation odds. We're close to the panic button stage, but not there yet...

Tony Hill
116 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:36:11
Yes, that team played like a relegation side tonight, we were empty. It is deeply worrying and I’m afraid I don’t see any obvious remedy.

We probably shouldn’t be surprised.

Paul Hewitt
117 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:41:19
This club will get nowhere changing managers. Absolutely nowhere.
Ian Edwards
118 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:45:54
Robert @112.

We aren't playing 4-2-3-1. We are playing 4-3-3. The midfield 3 contains 2 defensive mids (plus Iwobi). The front three are two crap lightweight wingers in Gray and McNeill and a forward with no service.

Colin Glassar
119 Posted 05/11/2022 at 22:47:26
We looked stale and out of ideas today. I think teams have sussed us out early doors so Frank is going to have to go back to the drawing board and come up with something different.

Stupid calling for his head.

Jay Harris
121 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:01:14
The real problem is we haven't got goalscorers and this has been the case for years.

How can we expect to kill games off when we can't score goals. For all Iwobi's energy and passing, he can’t score goals which should be one of the requirements of his position.

Onana's head has been at the World Cup for the past few games so he shouldn't be out there and he has done nothing to suggest he can contribute goals.

Gray, Gordon and McNeil struggle to create let alone score goals.

EFC has to stop being a nice family for players to play when they feel like. Give some of the kids a chance. They surely can't be any worse.

Mike Price
122 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:03:40
No one wants to keep changing managers but, if he isn't good enough, surely it's utterly pointless in continuing to flog a dead horse.
Brian Wilkinson
123 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:08:29
I think the World Cup break has come at the right time for Everton. It gives us just over a month's grace and only a couple of games to play, where hopefully we will be able to bring a striker in, and kick on the second half of the season.

We cannot go another transfer window, not bringing in one or even two strikers.

Ed Prytherch
124 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:12:19
Garner and Patterson should be starting games, not coming off the bench in the second half.

I was excited when Gana returned but he is not half the player who left 3 years ago. His passing was never great but it was terrible today. I lost count of the number of times he turned the ball over.

I watched Man City play Fulham earlier and every time a City player lost the ball, he did his best to recover it. You don't need to be a £300k/week genius player to do that.

Some players warm up by running faster than Doucoure did after he gave the ball away that led to the Foxes' second goal. I would be happy to see Tom Davies given a run-out with Iwobi and Garner in midfield.

Bill Fairfield
126 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:14:43
You’ve just got to take your chances. Particularly when you only create two per game. Going nowhere fast.
Rob Hooton
132 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:18:51
Well that was incredibly disappointing. Leicester set the tone in the first 20 seconds and could have had plenty more goals than the two they scored.

Iwobi should have scored and could have had an assist shortly after, but the quality was lacking and we didn't have any better chances after those.

I obviously know as much about managing as Kieran does about predicting scores…

Paul Smith
133 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:28:52
I see the ‘play the kids' shouts are starting. 13 games in, is that a record?

Ian Edwards is about right with his analysis. No creative midfield apart from Iwobi and nothing upfront.

Andy Crooks
134 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:31:07
Not too disappointed, though I can't watch MotD as usual with Everton. I never bet against Everton but at 9/4 Leicester were the bet of the season. They have better players and a better manager.

Not Frank's fault. We will pay for the ineptitude of Moshiri, Kenwright and the no-marks they hired and fired for years. It is a strange, blessed relief that I will not suffer the frightful anxiety of last season's great escape. Not that I think we are guaranteed safety, I just no longer care as much.

How many of those who wore the shirt today will be hurting as much as the Blues who paid hard-earned, precious money to support them? Not a fucking one I'd guess. They rarely fail to disappoint.

I suppose they'll be out chilling tonight, as far away from ordinary folk as their money will buy them.

Fuck 'em.

Don Alexander
135 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:50:26
Quiz question for 2025:

"Name the club now playing at Europe's largest most expensive virtually empty stadium who were one of 12 founder members of the 19th Century Football League, before going on from that dozen to establish itself as the only internationally revered great club for most of the 20th century, hosting with Wembley a World Cup semi-final in 1966, before becoming one of only six founder members of the money-for-old-rope, to the other five, Premier League, before alone going on a journey of 30 fucking years without looking remotely like a club their history deserves?"

"For an extra point, apart from the dozen or so managers and two totally inadequate alleged owners appointed to hopelessly achieve success in the Premier League, and the scores of players signed at mega-cost who never achieved anything at Everton or anywhere else afterwards, just who is the one person who was the man at the top or thereabouts for the vast majority of the last thirty years"?

You surely don't need a clue, folks, but by all means in the meantime continue to berate managers, players et al, whilst most of you persist in putting up with the club sinking, always ignoring the gaping hole beneath our rusty, rotting-by-the-season water-line.

Tony Everan
136 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:53:00
A massive problem tonight is taking chances, Iwobi and Calvert-Lewin just have to bury that type of chance. Both attempts at finishing excellent chances were below standard. They have to do better.

Finish one of them and the complexion of the game changes, the crowd changes, the away team starts to get a bit of fear infecting their play, we get on the front foot.

This is the importance of having players who can score a goal. Goals not only win games, they change them. We've got to be signing someone in January to give us the goals we are going to need.

I'm not going to go overboard with negativity but I sat through MotD and we look the most goal-shy team of them all just now. All focus is for getting a result at Bournemouth and coming back stronger after the break. With essentially more firepower already lined up by Thelwell for when the January window opens.

Derek Thomas
137 Posted 05/11/2022 at 23:53:05
Leicester were a basket case and now they're not. What did they do to change? Did some combination of players & manager 'New Think' occur?

The other week vs Palace, Lampard (Aare you trying to get sacked? Because you're going the right way, mate??) didn't change it and it worked – did he just get lucky in some sort of 'rock, paper, scissors' guessing game?

Forget the two Bournemouth games – send Gana and Onana off to the World Cup now.

Go for broke in both games.

But for fuck's sake, try to be a bit harder to beat... or are those two things beyond so-called professional players – well, ours anyway.

Mike Keating
138 Posted 05/11/2022 at 00:01:32
Fuck them indeed, Andy, but unfortunately, they're all we have.

I can't believe Onana is in the Belgium squad for the Corrupt World Cup while there's some debate over whether Maddison should be playing for England.

Doucouré was a disgrace. Gueye was shite and Maupay is a waste of space.

These fuckwits are millionaires and can't be arsed to turn up in front of a crowd who do – week-in & week-out.

ps: I think Garner may turn out to be a bit special and Mykolenko works his socks off.

Paul Hewitt
139 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:20:07
Keep faith with Frank and we will be alright.
Colin Malone
140 Posted 05/11/2022 at 00:20:10
Formation, Formation, Formation.

Frank Lampard, as a qualified footballing coach, with all the coaching badges. Not because he was a top footballer? Surely not.

Lampard does not know any other formation, other than playing with wingers who are not even second-rate shite. Two poor wingers who don't participate, which is an overload to the rest of the team.

Jordan Pickford and our fantastic support saved us from relegation last season. That's a fucking fact!

If a Premier League coach – yes, you, Frankie – has not got the football knowledge to change your formation to deter the opposition teams.

Instead of like for like – or should I say, shit for shit… Just got home from Goodison and all I can say is, Fuck off, Lampard.

Please, ToffeeWebbers, challenge me, to prove me wrong.

Barry Rathbone
141 Posted 05/11/2022 at 00:21:39
Not unexpected. Leicester are a reasonable outfit playing below the level of recent seasons but picking up and, as we all know, any team wanting a confidence booster just needs to play Everton.

I think having a midfield who can't play football but are reasonably effective in defence (pick any of Gana, Onana, Doucoure, Davies) is okay for relegation avoidance, as long as the forward line is good enough to take the pressure off. But our forwards are a bit poo.

These results, interspersed with the odd good result, such as Palace will be the norm for this season; but the question is – Will supporters support Frank and the team through it?

Unlikely. Evidence of torches being lit and pitchforks being brandished are already on the go. Marvellous really.

Don Alexander
145 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:38:29
Colin (#140),

From among Kenwright's employees of the past 30 years, who has ever saved us?

Brian Murray
146 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:39:27

Before the match, I asked you why you would persist with Coleman. Shock horror – we can't do without our loveable Seamus.

Do me a favour. A proper Premier League club would've had him gone 3 years ago. Instead, we cling on to past glories and displays.

Still a daft sentimental club from top to bottom.

Kieran Kinsella
147 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:40:22
Half a dozen sensible posts from people whose views normally are divergent (Colin, Barry, Christy) and a lot of hysteria. The fact we don't have 400-plus posts already suggests to me most people realize this is par for the course for this group of players and the manager at this stage.

Disappointing, yes… but not hugely surprising. There are about 12 fairly evenly matched mediocre teams, and we are one of them, as we knew before today.

Colin Malone
148 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:42:07
Paul # 142, Colin#140.

Who is going to save us?

Paul, fact: Bournemouth have got their game plan ready,

Why? We have only one,

Bill Gall
149 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:44:02
Well, Frank, after watching that display, I really hope that, without a doubt, you feel like an Evertonian: bewildered, nauseous, pissed-off that you just watched a team in blue shirts that looked like it was their first game together.

Do not worry – this happens a lot, but you can do something about it, maybe putting your arm around their shoulder and giving them advice is not working. You may need to become more ruthless and make them earn their places with consistent performances, or bring in players who will be willing to take their place.

All Evertonians help each other but there is not as many who can give as much help as you, so earn the honour of being called an Evertonian.

Don Alexander
150 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:45:44
Brian (#146),

And who's the one, useless to the club and its supporters, self-serving, lying, inept boss allegedly in charge, 95-100% for the time, for the past 30 years?

Might that fucker be responsible?

Just asking.

Jeff Armstrong
151 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:48:44
This internet lark is just self-destruction; 40 years ago, it would've been a discussion about the game in the pubs and clubs on the Saturday night, a read of the Sunday papers the next day, Echo match report on the Monday evening, and back to a League Cup game Tuesday.

The managers position was a thing that came up after about 3 years. Fuck me, if Catterick, Kendall, Bingham and Lee where managers today, then they would be gone in 6 months, yet each of them total about 30 years as Everton managers!

Catterick and Kendall won trophies, Lee went close, and even Bingham got us to a League Cup Final (Lee led us out at Wembley, Bingham's team).

My point being that we've had enough of changing managers almost every 12 months for the past 7 years, we've had maybe what? 5 managers in 7 years?

We need to give Lampard at least another 2 seasons to build, as long as we stay up this season, which we will. Next season will be better, and who knows where the season after that takes us?

What I do know is constantly changing managers has never worked for us. We need to give Lampard time.

Ed Prytherch
152 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:49:32
Paul and Don,

That was an exam question. Which one of you was cheating?

Brian Murray
153 Posted 06/11/2022 at 01:00:19
Don @146,

We both know the one constant who I won't dignify naming or I'll get deleted again. Total fraud of a man still clinging on. Need new owners or some heavy investors who can see the weak links still at the club. Obviously our Iranian idiot can't or won't.

Ian Riley
154 Posted 06/11/2022 at 01:20:45
I think the World Cup break will do us all good.

Jeff #151, Frank keeps us clear of the Bottom 3 he stays. He knows the situation the club is in with the new stadium. Relegation could be a disaster financially.

As for 40 years ago, football was in a different world. Outside the premiership is a lost world. Soon forgotten in the Championship. The sponsors want worldwide audiences and will pay big money as long as your in the Premier League. The Premier League brand is a money-making machine. We must remain part of it.

The club is bigger than any manager. Frank knows poor results has one outcome. The World Cup break may be his saviour with more time to reflect.

Brian Murray
155 Posted 06/11/2022 at 01:23:52
Getting out-thought by a rival manager and not having the nous to change it won't make the World Cup break any different, Ian. Reflect on what exactly?
Barry Jones
156 Posted 06/11/2022 at 01:34:35
That was dire. Leicester was head and shoulders above us in quality and creativity.

Onana was dreadful. He is really poor defensively and offers nothing offensively. Gana was also a liability, turning over possession regularly. We could have been out there for hours and not looked remotely like scoring.

Is Pochettino available? I would break the bank to get him right now. I concede to the fact that we are going nowhere with this management and this set of players.

Soren Moyer
157 Posted 06/11/2022 at 01:58:26
I'm sorry but I struggle to see any notable improvements this season! We are actually 1 point worse off than this time last season.

14 points from available 42! It’s relegation form in my book. Not to mention the awful footy we are being served.

But hey, Lampard was the fans’ choice for some reason, even though he'd been sacked by the very same club where he is considered as a legend!

Phil Smith
158 Posted 06/11/2022 at 02:31:56
Some of the comments on here are reactionary (understandably) and quite ridiculous in some cases. Worst thing we could do is sack yet another manager. If we do, we deserve to go down. Frank will keep us up.

Too many players are not at it, especially in attacking areas. Some of the stick flying about is warranted but some of the crap up today is way off. Gray hasn't done anything lately and Gordon hasn't looked right since the Chelsea bids. Doucoure: what's the point in bringing him on, seriously? I'd rather have Mills have a run out.

Need a change in tactics or first 11, or we'll continue to be up and down this season. Seriously depressing watch today though.

Colin Malone
160 Posted 06/11/2022 at 03:11:11
Again, I say. A coach who has not got the knowledge to make a change in formation in the Premier League during a game only decides to change shite for shite, as Frank does.
Not impressed. I know, I'm better.
Graham Hammond
161 Posted 06/11/2022 at 03:25:56
A nice goal from Lewis Warrington up at Fleetwood today but sorry to say that (on that showing) he is not ready for our first team nor sadly do I think he will ever make the grade at our club.

£34M on McNeil and Maupay, it just never ends… when will we ever scout and buy a player with some much-needed pace?

Brian Murray
162 Posted 06/11/2022 at 03:46:49
I would hold back on Onana. I keep saying it's asking too much of him in this fierce midfield for him to dictate a game. He needs moving further forward, like Fellaini although why can't he head a ball straight? It may all come in time but not right now.

Whatever Gana had first time round, he hasn't got it now The likes of Keane and Holgate are just waiting their chance to drag us to their level again. Big January… if Frank’s still here, that is!

Jonathan Oppenheimer
163 Posted 06/11/2022 at 04:04:50
It seems obvious to all that the big question for us this season is figuring out what formation to play with a bunch of mid- and low-table players. And while that it is in many ways dictated by the opposition, the reality is that in the Premier League the opposition will almost always be better than we are. Given that, it seems like we have to become much more of a counter-attacking team with a pretty defensive shape, even at Goodison, to have much of a shot.

It will be ugly, but we need to grind out results, and we've been lucky so far (other than against Palace) to get points when we did. Our midfield right now, other than Iwobi, is just not good enough. I wish I had the answer, but the only one I can come up with is to play Garner sooner rather than later.

Of course, we need to also take our few chances each game, but there just aren't goals in this squad. I don't think any of us know enough to be calling for Lampard to be sacked, but I'm not anywhere close to making that call.

I do wish we had the £35 million back that we spent on McNeil and Maupay and had spent it on a £35 million goal threat, then kept Mills and Simms as no-cost replacements. But I guess it's too late for that.

Ernie Baywood
164 Posted 06/11/2022 at 04:12:39
Very poor, but it's been the same issues all season. The difference is that decent teams highlight our deficiencies.

We're workmanlike. Playing us is no soft touch and you'll have to put in a shift to beat us. But we're not going to really give anyone an issue with our lack of movement and creativity. It's keep it tight and nick one with some window dressing. We're a good sparring partner for the better teams.

I'm not sure how Lampard and Thelwell solve this. A pacy striker? A genuine attacking midfielder? Or do you simply grow the balls to only play one of Onana and Gueye? I'd happily see Tom Davies trying everything over having two blokes in there who simply don't want the ball.

Patterson was our most impactful player. In a short spell, from right back, at his age, and coming back from injury. That's damning.

Kieran Kinsella
165 Posted 06/11/2022 at 04:14:09

Very sensible post, mate.

Paul Smith
166 Posted 06/11/2022 at 05:35:39

I suggest otherwise – apathy, mate. Of late, the matchday threads have cooled off somewhat which is unusual for TW, members at least vent their spleen at times of poor showing on the pitch. Everton can make me a bit numb sometimes to it all.

Alan J Thompson
167 Posted 06/11/2022 at 05:50:22
After a late night's or more correctly early morning's rest, I'm a little less depressed but still need to know what happened to the game we played against Palace with many bodies high up the pitch pressing with energy?

This game we seemed to set up on the edge of our own penalty area as though we expected Leicester to merely knock a long ball for the speedy Vardy to chase. He didn't play and we didn't move up the pitch but we did have three good chances.

I was willing to give Iwobi the benefit of the doubt as his chance was just the wrong side of the post but Calvert-Lewin had no excuses. The first he would have been through with only the keeper to beat but his attempt at controlling the ball ended up as nothing more than a 20-yard backpass to their keeper and the second chance he didn't have the nouse to beat the keeper one-on-one with all the space and time in the world.

Frank needs to gamble that our defenders’ lack of pace will not be shown up and move up the pitch along with the high energy pressing of the Palace game while, during the World Cup break, there needs to be a lot of practice at finishing, both one-on-one and shooting from the edge of the box, not to mention trying to take a decent corner.

Sorry but depressed again, might have another lie down.

Steve Brown
168 Posted 06/11/2022 at 06:09:35
Think the game gave a positive boost to any squad member who wasn't involved in it!

Surely, we need to give Onana and / or Gana a rest for the final two games before the break.

As for our wingers, none of them present a significant threat no matter what combination is employed.

Time to push Iwobi up as a CAM and change formation.

Laurie Hartley
169 Posted 06/11/2022 at 06:10:25
We were outplayed on our own patch by a far better football team. Never during that game did we look like we could get any kind of a result. We were very poor.

Any positive impact we have gained with the signing of Coady and Tarkowski has been neutralised by the loss of Allan and Richarlison.

If Calvert-Lewin is out again, which seems likely, playing Maupay as a loan striker is not going to work – we already know that, don't we? The manager is going to have to change the set-up or we will continue to struggle.

Derek Knox
170 Posted 06/11/2022 at 06:24:25
Disappointed? Of course I am, as I'm sure we all are after the result, but I will stand by my adage, that I can barely accept defeat if we were beaten by a better team. Which we were today, but usually the proviso is that we have given our all, and played to the best of our ability, which clearly we didn't.

Gana was well below standard today, Onana again didn't get involved enough, there's two thirds of the midfield under-performing, and the few chances that did come up front were not only spurned but totally wasted.

I had hoped that we had learnt from our past, but no, apparently not. Only two games now before the World Cup fiasco, maybe it is a blessing in disguise.

Frank Fearns
171 Posted 06/11/2022 at 06:52:56
The highs and lows of Everton. How often does this happen?

Yesterday was the bottom of the barrel. Leicester took us apart with some class players making ours, especially midfield looking out of their depth.

Onana was absolutly useless and a total waste of money. I read that he is young and will be a class player in years to come. I've even seen it said they fear that he'll be picked by a "big club".

Everton can't afford the time to bring on young and up-and-coming players unless they're in the "reserves". We need to buy players who can walk on the pitch and do a job - like Coady and Tarkowski. Otherwise its relegation stuff.

I know I've highlighted Onana but many players yesterday were just hopeless and out of their depth. Everton supporters deserve more from the players. Yes, outplayed by a good team but how frustrating and annoying is our lot?

Some blame the manager but I blame the players for not playing with same energy and loyalty of the supporters.

Paul Birmingham
172 Posted 06/11/2022 at 07:32:24
Sadly it's become part of life and it's almost s second sense, that pre-match gut feeling and Everton, let themselves and the Evertonians down, in time-honoured manner, as Everton have done for decades.

No complaints about the result, but too many key players had stinkers and the whole team played like they were jet-lagged and had no cohesion.

Goals win games and no club can survive on the meagre amount of goals being scored this season.

Very good chances wasted, and there's no excuses. Hopefully the World Cup break, will allow some soul-searching, and regroup of this squad.

On the positive side, hopefully now only Pickford will be going to Qatar, for England.

January hope must spring, and a couple of new players to keep the midfield in shape, and who can deliver an end-product in scoring goals and providing killer passes into the box.

Losing sense of position, role and getting basics on passing and decision-making wrong, was a constant throughout the match and simple passes being made to a player's wrong foot or behind him, made this an easy win for Leicester.

Frustrating, but there's time to improve, but there's no excuse for such a lame performance.

Rodgers and his scouts had this game sussed before it started and executed their game plan well. Too many gaps to play in; too easy to play against.

Hope eternal, now to make up for this performance at. Bournemouth.

Jerome Shields
173 Posted 05/11/2022 at 07:56:17
Leicester City's attitude was to get at Everton from the start. The Everton players were a yard off the pace and had little interest or determination to engage them in the final third, with poor and negative play.

Against a Premier League side, surrendering space and allowing them to push the play to outside Everton's penalty area is never going to work. The sucker goal against is inevitable. But even if Everton have space, errors and poor passing help the opposition to pursue the above tactics.

Both Gray and Gordon do not attempt to go past their markers. Calvert-Lewin will rarely put together the good play that gave him the Palace goal, falling down on any one of the steps: the laid-off pass, positioning, engaging and going past his marker, and finishing.

Consistent errors from players in midfield is a total no-no in the Premier League. A poor attitude regarding engagement and determination getting forward will always have a negative impact on team players, particularly younger players.

Dave Cashen
174 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:02:34
There is a very real difference between deep-lying midfield players and defensive midfield players. Yes, they occupy the same area of the pitch, but they are there to do very different jobs. Yesterday's game was a classic example. Leicester's two can start fires. Ours are only capable of occasionally putting them out.

The whole set-up is wrong. Whoever told our goalie he is a great distributor of the ball must have been smoking something illegal. Yeah, I saw the pass against Forest, but if you throw enough darts at the board, you will eventually hit the occasional bullseye. I'm not blaming Pickford, I'm sure he would happily not see nearly as much of the ball, or have the seemingly sole responsibility of getting us up the pitch.

From the off, I have struggled to understand all the praise being heaped on our centre-halves. They will eventually kill us. Yeah, they get lots of blocks in, but so would a lamp post if you stood it in the centre of the goal. If they can't get us up the pitch, we need to replace them with players who will.

Bravery comes in various forms. It takes more courage to play a higher line than to throw your body in front of the ball. Some are delighting in the number of blocks they make as if it was a plus?

I also think we should be thinking about life without Calvert-Lewin. A very good player when firing on all cylinders, but I fear he will enter his forties claiming he could have been a contender.

My last thought is in regard to the ridiculous proportion of the blame heaped upon Anthony Gordon for last week's shit show. Those returning to threads repeatedly to hammer him got to see what we look like without him. Did you see any improvement?

I've seen rowdier church mice than McNeil, not that I am going down the same route and blaming him in any way. Like Gordon, he is a guy learning his trade, who needs support from senior players.

They don't get that support. They simply have responsibility heaped upon their young shoulders by fans who don't seem to recognise that we have about 15 senior players who barely rise above the adequate.

Ray Robinson
175 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:25:34
How come, with all the midfielders that we buy, we never come up with a Maddison, Barnes, Tielemans, Dewsbury-Hall... ie, a midfielder capable of scoring?

Our supposed most forward-looking midfielder, Iwobi, generally can't hit a barn door at 10 paces. No natural goal-scorers up front and none in midfield. No wonder we struggle. Must be addressed in January.

Also, the constant sideways and backwards passing really annoys me. Someone must occasionally take responsibility and drive forward!

I don't want to see a promising position around the opposition box end up in a safe backpass to Pickford, who, incidentally, appeared to have forgotten to take his tranquillisers last night. We're too safety first.

Danny O’Neill
176 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:32:40
That's as bad as I've seen us play this season. Even worse than the performance against Aston Villa. I always try to look beyond results, especially for a team that is a work in progress. That was a very poor performance.

I'm not going to dwell, there's no point. Brenda outdid Frank tactically. Leicester stretched the pitch and made it big. Our midfield was wide open. I could see the space in the centre throughout the match. This put our to-date pretty resilient defence under a lot of pressure. The manager didn't spot it or change it to counter it. He got schooled.

We wasted 2 one-on-ones from what I recall. But that was pretty much it. Leicester bossed the game.

And let's be honest, we were done by two fantastic finishes. Especially that first goal. The second one, even one of the best shot-stoppers in the game like Pickford is not getting to that. Credit where due.

It was poor. It was frustrating, it was disappointing.

I read through all the posts. A couple of things stick out.

Onana is 21. I'll repeat; be patient.

Jeff @151. December 1983. Kendall must go. Fast forward to 1987.

If we have learned one thing from the past several years, we need stability, perseverance, and not allowing that boardroom to hit the panic button for self-preservation at the first sight of a bad performance or run of form.

In that case, Arteta would have been gone early doors last season and Rogers was on the hook this one. Look at Wolves. That seems to be going well.

We lost a game of football in a season of 38 games playing badly. It's November and there are still a lot of points to play for.

Bournemouth next.

Tony Hill
177 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:34:26
Paul @166,

I think you're right. It was true of the crowd yesterday, a very flat atmosphere. A sort of resigned indifference is infecting us again and that is an obvious danger for the season ahead.

Bobby Mallon
178 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:39:17
I wrote this on another thread.

You could tell Onana wasn't up to full fitness from the off. If Frank knew he had a bad ankle, then Garner should have started.

You could tell he was struggling from the first minute and here's me shouting at the screen and writing on the Live Forum that he's lazy.

I take it back; he's silly for not sitting out and resting it. My apologies, big man.

So he had an injury in training that Frank knew about.

Danny O’Neill
179 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:44:45
Just to add to the anti-football discussion.

If you look at Germany 2010 to 2014 (World Champions), they played 4-2-3-1. Muller, considered and is a striker, often played on the left of the 3. Regardless of the system, it's about having the players to make it work. Otherwise, play a system to suit the players you have available.

It's not negative to have two defensive midfielders. It effectively allows you to always have 4 playing forward because they don't have to worry too much about tracking back as you have effectively always got 6 back and covering. In the 4-2-3-1 system that is.

Just a personal opinion though as much as others have theirs.

And playing 2 forwards in the modern game, in my opinion, leaves you wide open in midfield where, as has been said, games are won or lost. And we were wide open enough last night. No point having 2 up front if you can't supply them.

We'd have two players waiting for a taxi that never comes.

Danny Baily
180 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:48:18
A bad night. But there was a 20% or so chance that went in our favour, even higher for a draw. We created two or three clear cut chances, just didn't put them away. Their first goal was unstoppable and we lost our shape chasing an equaliser for their second.

What's worrying is that Calvert-Lewin was involved in those clear-cut chances. Without him, we lack the physical presence to play Frank's preferred system. If he's out long-term again, we really need to bring in someone to do that job.

Not the worst result, but this does mean we need to get something out of Bournemouth. Forget about the cup, 3 points going into the international break will make all the difference.

Danny O’Neill
181 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:52:30
How dare you, Danny Baily. Forget the cup? No chance. Tell that to the travelling mass on Tuesday!!

And 3 points to follow at the weekend. Double jeopardy!!

Sean Roe
182 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:52:47
Steve @ 168,

''Think the game gave a positive boost to any squad member who wasn't involved in it!''

And every other club in the top four divisions as well. We must have the bluntest, most ineffective attack in English football.

Mike Morgan
183 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:57:48
Danny, I fully agree.

Two defensive midfielders for a team at our level would make sense. It would be a simple change. Just moving Onana or Garner back 10 yards to sit alongside Gueye. This would free Iwobi up to be the pressing forward midfielder or even join Calvert-Lewin in a front two when attacking.

Having two holding midfielders would make the defense much more solid. Southgate has done it with England – Rice and Phillips in the Euros.

Where Southgate had come unstuck is trying to transition to a more progressive style, which is what you need to do to win a World Cup.

For Everton, at this stage in our development, two holding midfielders is exactly what we should do.

Joe McMahon
184 Posted 06/11/2022 at 08:59:26
Danny, I kind of agree with you, but we have decades of disappointment (it's never a one-off awful performance).

Add to that years and years of mainly negative goal difference and so few goalscorers. The many years kopites all over the UK laughing at Neverton, Woodison etc. They have had so many goalscorers the last few decades; we have had a one-off Lukaku for over 30 years.

We have had so little quality and never played in the Champions League. I agree, we can't sack another manager, but expectations have become so low since the Premier League started – we don't know what success is.

One thing is taking chances when you get them; against Spurs and yesterday, this didn't happen. Failed recruitment is the biggest reason.

We very rarely acquire quality at the money end (creativity and goals). Roberto brought in Lukaku 9 years ago and Silva brought in Richarlison 4 years ago.

I cannot see Calvert-Lewin or Gordon changing anything for us. IMO, at the very least, Iwobi and Gray need to be central but, like always, it's desperation.

January has to somehow bring a proven goalscorer and Summer another one with a midfielder that can pass and run forwards and shoot.

Dave Abrahams
185 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:03:44
Being honest, we didn't have a midfield. I didn't know Gana was carrying an injury, he played a lot better than the other two but he was making mistakes with passing. That's Gana, he won't change, but he was in the game chasing and harrying and giving his all.

Onana is just not worthy of his place at the moment and he'll have to improve greatly to satisfy most of us. At the moment, he looks like Onyango at his best. Iwobi was having one of his “Cat on a hot tin roof” days, running all over the place, a lot of it bluff, and achieving very little – and he was one of our better players, Jesus!

At the same time, the Leicester players were cool, calm and collected, enjoying the huge spaces left by Everton's midfield and exploiting them on every attack. I think Gana needs help off his fellow midfielders and his manager, more than he needs criticism.

Everton and Lampard need to improve with the players we've got until January because the whole setup of the team needs looking at with a fine-tooth comb – there's too many nits in these performances at the moment that need rooting out.

Danny O’Neill
186 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:06:11
Can't argue with a lot of that, Joe. As much as Leicester had chances, I sat with my brother, he's much more critical than me. But most of them went wide and Jordan had them covered.

But a Kopite will never laugh at me. If we'd have taken the 2 golden ones we had, we get a point.

It's about having a striker that can convert the chance consistently.

In Dominic's defence, was he fit? Or was that a different and new injury? Like Onana, if partially fit, that's a management problem.

As someone on the fence with Lampard, we've got to stick with a plan and try to see it through.

Bournemouth Tuesday. We'll all be feeling better.

Brian Murray
187 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:07:15
We need to stop hoping and clinging on to the fitness of one player to alter our ambitions. We are not Bolton so we must try acting like a Premier League club.

I can understand Frank's new Everton mentality – he feels like one of us. Still runs through the club.

Eddie Dunn
188 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:07:22
Bill Gall nails it @ 62.

They played first-time balls and knew where their mates were. We take a touch and then look to pass, if the pass ain't on, then it goes sideways or backwards. No chance to put Leicester on the back foot and our attacks then fizzle out.

I met a person through my work on Thursday whose husband works with the club. She said Frank was working on triangles, everything was all about triangles.

I watched the game with this in mind. We see at the Finch Farm videos these routines with quick short passing in tight areas. However, we fail to hit the instant longer ball, and the likes of Gray never play a ball first time. The element of surprise is missing.

Add to this the statuesque Onana and the flawed Gana Gueye and you see why the likes of Leicester or Fulham could outplay us.

Frank really is thick. He persists in playing just two in midfield when they are being overwhelmed. He usually subs like-for-like. He is like a dad coaching his under-11 football team.

Frank was asked yesterday if he was excited about the progress on the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. Of course he was, but as others have said above, there is a diminishing likelihood of him being in the job in 2 years time.

He is learning on the job but, with our owner, I doubt that Frank will be tolerated overseeing another relegation scrap.

Andrew Clare
189 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:10:01
We have to accept that we are going to get games like this while the rebuilding process is on. What is hard to accept is that we have had decades of accepting this mediocre football.

When I was a boy, going to Goodison with my dad (we were a top team then), I used to wonder what it was like to support a team like Fulham, Southampton etc who had no chance of challenging every year for top honours.

For the last 30 years, I have known what it is like. Bloody demoralising. I now think that there is an established order and we may never join that group.

We have a very average team and even our best players, when sold, can't expect regular first-team football at their new clubs.

Eddie Dunn
190 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:22:34
Danny Bailey @180.

The first goal certainly wasn't unstoppable. Onana stood and admired Tielamans for a second as he lined it up. We just didn't close him and Madisson down well enough.

It can be done – just look at Leicester's earlier results.

Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:30:27
Exactly, Rob D, and that's why I've been saying for quite a while that Lampard is not using a system that is getting the most out of these players.

Ian E, I wouldn't argue with you about anti-football, mate, but if you was at the game yesterday, surely you would have come out with something similar to what Rob posted.

Onana, for all his talent, just flits in and out of games, and if you thought he was trying to play as a defensive midfield player yesterday, then you saw a totally different game to me, Ian.

Everton lacked aggression, and I just wished that we could play a bit more anti-football by condensing the pitch, because we are way too open, meaning we are very easy to play against right now, imo.

Colin Glassar
192 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:31:16
It is a concern for most of us, Andrew, this eternal “rebuilding” – but it must be done. Decades of lack of investment followed by half a decade of waste and madness has left us firmly in the group of stocking fillers – for now.

We have improved a lot since last season but our mentality is still fragile and I think that showed yesterday.

Pickford seems to be a bit shaky recently and his distribution, usually excellent, has been erratic, to say the least.

Coady and Tarkowski have been targeted in the last two games as they are painfully slow on the turn and are not very good bringing the ball out of defence.

Gana and Onana look very jaded and are constantly being caught dawdling on the ball. Onana might have his mind on Qatar (avoiding injury) and Gueye needs a rest. I'd bench both of them for the next two games.

As for our attack. Toothless, clueless, mindless. I actually think Gray and Gordon are two, potentially, brilliant players but their decision-making is awful leading to our attacks constantly breaking down in the final third.

As for Calvert-Lewin, I love the lad and it must be gutting for him to be constantly breaking down. I'd take him out of the firing line until the season resumes after the World Cup and get him some intensive treatment and, in January, a decent replacement (not Maupay who is useless).

Not all is lost. Patterson will give us more options down the right. Garner will get more chances to grab a starting place. Most of our squad is fit again to improve competition for places and, despite the rumours, January is near to get that goalscorer (Brereton-Diaz?) and a creative midfield player.

Danny O’Neill
193 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:32:37
Brian Murray, that's a very pertinent point.

Martinez, Koeman, He who shall not be named, Silva, Ancelotti, He whose name we should not mention, and now Lampard.

Okay, a play with stats, but including the temporary appointments in-between, we've had 11 managerial appointments in 9 years.

Fucking ridiculous instability. We're outperforming the current UK Government. And that is saying something.

And we fucked up when we appointed a genuine and proven world class manager.

The bottom line is, regardless of manager, we've been surviving off 12 to 14 players for years. Scratch the surface and, once the inevitable injuries kick in, the locker has always been empty or sub-standard.

That's two trips to the swear jar, John Senior. And being a Sunday, I'll go and say my Hail Marys immediately.

Robert Tressell
194 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:37:25
Taking a cold hard look at ourselves, we have overhauled the squad but still have a very average side.

We have gradually lost those who scored and created goals – Sigurdsson, Rodriguez and Richarlison.

Calvert-Lewin is injured again and Maupay isn't very good at all.

Mina is still probably our best front-foot defender.

Gueye is poorer than Allan in possession and ineffective at holding a position in front of the defence.

Gordon, Gray and McNeil are hit & miss – and it's extremely difficult to look effective without the ball and generally poor movement. The arrival of Patterson finally improved this yesterday. It gave us two players (him and Iwobi) moving into spaces to receive the ball. Otherwise... statues.

Eddie Dunn
195 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:48:31
Having watched a couple of Lampard's post-match interviews, I am now baffled as to why he played Onana, whom he said twisted his ankle in training, whilst we had able deputies in Davies and Garner.

Indeed, Frank's reliance on dependable Seamus cost us in terms of attacking options on our right flank and aid to the hapless midfield pairing.

It seems to me that the obsession in playing wingers just leaves us wide open. We lose the midfield in most games and Frank was a midfield player of high pedigree. Is he listening too much to Mr Clement?

Ian Edwards
196 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:50:00
We have had 46 shots against us in the last two games. Yes, 46 by Leicester and Fulham.

If Lampard doesn't address the failings in his midfield, especially his defensive midfielders, then he is toast.

Colin Glassar
197 Posted 06/11/2022 at 09:56:27
Well, the knocks picked up by Gueye and Onana might be a blessing in disguise, Eddie. Garner and Doucoure need a run of games (please, not Davies) to get into their stride.

As I stated earlier, Gueye and Onana look a bit out of sorts recently so a rest might do them a world of good.

Danny O’Neill
198 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:11:03
I think some are looking at the historical names. From what I've seen, Leicester and Fulham at present are decent and good teams. One has started well, the other had a bad start but has been improving. Both only narrowly beaten by Manchester City recently.

Robert, I'll agree but disagree with you. I think we are saying similar things, just presenting in a different perspective.

I think we have a decent team. We just lack depth in the squad beyond that. But that's been the case for years. You need a deeper squad in the modern game. You can't get away with a first 11 backed up by Alan Harper and Kevin Richardson.

Nick Page
199 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:14:16
Make your fucking mind up, Frank, what we're supposed to be because this utter shite that you're serving up deserves to be in The Championship.

Are we an attacking team that scores goals and gets players in the opposition box or are we defensive, press and prevent the opposition dominating our box?

We've had the piss taken out of us by most teams we've played this season and it's hard to get behind a team, Frank, that doesn't know what it's doing. Quite simply, the players have to give more and the tactics have to be much much better.

Brian Harrison
200 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:14:47
Last season, we spent most of the time trying to avoid relegation, which we did by the skin of our teeth, but sadly lost the most important player in that escape which was Richarlison, who almost single-handedly kept the opposition back 4 occupied amd scored some vital goals.

Now we have a front 3 whoever they are from Gray, Gordon McNeil, Maupay and Calvert-Lewin, individually and collectively amongst the worst front 3 in the Premier League.

In midfield, we have Gana who will get round the pitch making tackles but don't expect any goals or defence-splitting passes from him – that's not his game.

We have Iwobi, who tries to get forward and assist the forwards but we know he doesn't score many goals.

Then there is Onana. Now, in 12 months, the lad may be used to the pace of the Premier League, but at this moment in time, he is a liability.

He is 6" 4 and yet he goes to ground under the weakest challenges. He jogs around hardly making tackles or making any forward runs, and I would think has less touches per game than any other member of the side.

Then we come to the back 4: same problems as last season, 2 centre-backs with no pace so are reluctant to push up so we end up with the 2 of them sitting deep. Also why we are trying to play out from the back from every goal kick with players incapable of playing that way, it is bordering on suicidal.

Finally to Frank, who brought in 7 new players in the summer and I would argue that there has been little or no improvement on last season. I think our Goals For is one of the worst in the Premier League, so again probably worse than last season.

I have to say I expected a lot more from Frank this season but we still look disjointed and clueless when we get to within 10 yards of the opponent's box.

We all wanted it to be a success for Frank but many more results like yesterday and we could be on the lookout for a new manager, and the Bournemouth league game could be massive for Frank as lose that and we could be in the Bottom 3.

And with 6 weeks of no football because of the World Cup, if we lose at Bournemouth, Moshiri might decide enough is enough.

Laurie Hartley
201 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:26:47
So here is the elephant in the room – who is going to lead the line against Bournemouth?
Danny O’Neill
202 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:39:51
As always, everyone gets a pass to vent after a very disappointing result.

I'm personally not sure where the concern about being in the bottom 3 throughout the World Cup is coming from. There is an equal probability that we won't be.

And so what? The season ends in May.

I know I keep harping back to the dark winter of 1983, but I recall many of the Moyes years when the doom mongers had us written off by Christmas only for a late charge to get us up the table into 6th or 7th come the end of the season.

And many crave the Moyes years. Not me for the record.


I understand the disappointment at a disappointing result. I'm as frustrated as anyone with yesterday and still stewing about it. But some want our 12th managerial appointment in 9 years?

That's not stability and building to a plan. That's sheer knee-jerking and crisis management on a holy scale. Hold your nerve, Evertonians!

Let's vent. Then dust ourselves down and get behind them on Tuesday night to push us into the next round of the League Cup. Followed up by getting behind them to get the 3 points at the same venue next Saturday.

Many on here will be making the long trip on both occasions. Many will be watching from afar. But we'll all be there.

Spirit. Forever.

Allan Board
203 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:41:19
Leicester got after us and our lot couldn't deal with it.

They should have been directed to go long up to Calvert-Lewin for about 20 mins until it all calmed down. Frank's fault.

Leicester had lots of pace – we haven't got any. Shit happens. Frustrating isn't it?

Robert Tressell
204 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:41:55

I think our business over summer gives us greater squad depth across the pitch by some measure. More players of a decent standard for each position.

However, it crucially leaves our fully fit first XI weaker than last season – basically because of the absence of Richarlison.

And, weirdly, we haven't catered for the absence of Calvert-Lewin which really hurt us last season. Maupay is a different sort of player and not that good.

Steavey Buckley
205 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:49:29
The World Cup has come around again at a good time because the present Everton team could sink into the Championship without trace without a break from further Premier League matches and further losses.

Midfield is where Everton's biggest weakness is, where both Gana and Onana can't put together two accurate passes without giving the ball away or will lose the ball when they can't control it. Under these circumstances, the opposition don't have to do much with these two in midfield, they just collect the ball from them to start their attacks.

Yesterday's match also proved that Coleman should not be playing instead of Patterson; he was way off the pace and was guilty of allowing Barnes all the time in the world to get a cross in that led to Leicester's first goal just before the break.

The next transfer window is crucial because Everton desperately need players who can score goals. The defensive side of Everton is fine with further reinforcements with Yerry Mina and Ben Godfrey returning to full training and the possibility of Branthwaite returning from loan, who is not been giving enough playing time as agreed he would.

Ian Edwards
206 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:50:46
And further to my last post about conceding 46 shots in the last two games, we have failed to score in 4 of the last 5. Worse than last season.
Danny O’Neill
207 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:53:15
Yes, Robert, it's obvious that the priority was to patch up the defence.

Not that I'm an expert, but I was banging on about that about 2 years ago when a lot of people were telling me it wasn't a priority.

Not a 'told you so' moment from me as you never really know. Now, come January, we have to focus on the forward line. I think, for where we are now, we have enough in midfield providing the manager gets the right formula and formation.

Brian Harrison
208 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:56:01

Just to be clear, I want Frank to be a success as much as the next fan, and have said on many occasions that changing managers as regularly as we have doesn't do us any favours.

I know even in the darkest times, you always clutch to any positives, but sometimes we have to realize that, if we carry on as we have, there will only be one outcome.

When you watch all our games, even the games we have won, in most of those games, the opposition had more and maybe better chances than we did. Now you can't always rely on the opposition missing good chance after good chance.

I know you were at the Fulham game and Mitrovic had 10 attempts on goal. I can't remember any Everton player having that many attempts in one game.

As I say, I know you are always positive but if we do slide into the Bottom 3 and are still playing as poorly as we have so far, do you envisage a time if that happens that we may have to change?

Don Wright
209 Posted 06/11/2022 at 10:58:48
Like everyone else, yes, we need new players upfront, midfield and so on, but forget January like most are suggesting on here, 3 points first to start with.

Usually the January window for transfers is slim pickings (not the film star, for you oldies).

Second, it's the World Cup – prices will sky-rocket if a player has a couple of good games, as most players do. Then they get to a new club and revert back to playing shit... would you bet against it?

Third, who the fuck if they are any good, would come and play for us? Be honest, not in January anyway, or are we playing Fantasy Football on here?

Mike Price
210 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:00:59
We really are cursed, every time we start to get rid of some slow deadwood, we just burden ourselves with more.

Lampard is likeable but that doesn't make him a good manager and I've seen nothing that suggests he can change our modus operandi.

Shame that we bought Sigurdsson when we were supposedly looking at a young James Maddison too. We never seem to catch a break.

Ray Roche
211 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:06:02
Laurie, @201

Is the Elephant fit?

Rob Dolby
212 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:08:36
Steavey 205.

We lack goals from this squad. Relying on Calvert-Lewin and Maupay is a big worry.

The midfield has been strengthened with Garner, Onana and Gana being much more solid than last season's.

You mentioned Coleman, he is such an easy target with his age. When Patterson came on, I seen him fall over the ball at least once, hit a cross into the Street End under no pressure, and was nowhere near Barnes when he scored. We can all slant things to suit the narrative.

This squad carries the lowest goal-scoring threat from any Everton team that I have ever watched and I have seen some shite over the years.

Andrew McLawrence
213 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:10:58
Feels like the Martinez shouts after the World Cup might have legs…
Danny O’Neill
214 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:17:26
I know you do, Brian, and your views are always very well balanced.

You are way more sensible than me. You could argue that the song Daydream Believer was written about me and Everton.

I think you and my brother might get on well. He's more sensible than me too even though he's 17 years younger.

I just want us to see something through.

Within reason obviously.

Denis Hignett
215 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:19:49
McNeil sums up our club. Very average, one-footed player who does not score goals.

Someone thought he was worth £20 million. Brighton keep finding quality players at half the cost.

Lessons to be learned.

Colin Glassar
216 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:28:32
Calling for a managerial change is just suicidal imo. Some of you would be quite happy, it appears to me, to change the manager 3-4 times a season.

As crap as Moshiri has been, thank fuck none of you lot are in charge. The Messiah is not coming!!!

Ian Edwards
217 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:35:17
Andrew @213.

I think you could be right. My jury is out on Lampard. I was a huge fan for him stopping the rot and keeping us up. But his tactics, signings and formation this season have done him no favours at all.

I really think he is for the chop if we lose at Bournemouth and head into the World Cup in the Bottom 3.

Matt Henderson
218 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:35:45
Last season, our squad, through years of poor decision-making, was horrendous. There is no chance of correcting that in one window, one in which we sold our best player.

Despite that, we have improved the back end of the pitch significantly since last season but the front end, with the sale of Richarlison, is now worse. We have had the FFP issues to negotiate which also slows down the pace of any squad improvement.

Surely everyone appreciates just how bad we were (very lucky to survive last season) and how it is going to be a longer journey of incremental improvement to improve across the pitch.

Frank is heading in the right direction and is aware of where the squad needs improving. No manager on earth can turn this current team into free-wheeling scorers.

Until the squad is further improved, we are stuck with merely a group of forwards no better than relegation level, so we need to hope the defenders can keep a truck load of clean sheets.

Steve Shave
219 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:40:56
I didn't see the game but the above comments and match reports have given me a sense of the issues at hand and how bad the performance was. My view here is that we need to just calm down a little.

We were always going to be patchy this season, put in a good performance (like Palace) and it was inevitable that many would fall into the usual Everton trap of immediately altering their expectations unrealistically, only to be bitterly disappointed.

This is a transition season and that is the best we could have hoped for after las season. As far as I can see, we are on course for mid-table mediocrity. Call me a happy clapper if you want but I for one will take that after what happened. Signs of solidity, signs of improvement, signs of change… but a young manager and team who are learning on the job.

We have another window to potentially ship a few more and get in a quality attacker. Those of you calling for the manager's head, have you learned nothing from the past 5 seasons?

Those of you slating 21-year-old Onana, have you heard of player development? Those slating him clearly have short memories, he was one of the best players on the pitch two games in a row only a few weeks back. The lad is going to be a baller and he's ours, get behind him and he will thrive, interesting concept, eh?

Terry Farrell
220 Posted 06/11/2022 at 11:51:49
Steve and Matt, spot on. Frank is the man; we must back him 100%.

On another note, I watched the game with a load of New York City Blues in the Turnmill. Lovely to see a pub full of Evertonians and Everton shirts in New York. Great pub and full of top people. Long-suffering like the rest of us!!

Gary Johnson
221 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:01:06
We've scored in only one of the last five games. We've won once in six. We'll be lucky not to be in Bottom 3 going into the World Cup break.

Everyone knew we needed firepower, yet he focused on upgrading the defence and midfield. We now have Mondeos there instead of Vectras, and upfront we have a pair of Ladas (£35M worth) in place of the Brazilian Porsche we sold.

Lampard's 4-1-4-1 yesterday was criminal. It left Gana isolated against Maddison, Barnes, Soumare et al. We didn't move the ball forward quickly enough for the system to work.

For me, I'd give him one more game… offer Martinez the job again – now, before World Cup. He loses, then he'll have something to prove. They win it, and we'll look like geniuses who knew what would happen.

He frustrated the hell out of me, but we need to learn how to score again and he gives that.

Rob Halligan
222 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:03:34
Steve # 219.

Spot on mate with what you say. Changing managers again will get us absolutely nowhere. As for the calls about Roberto Martinez returning, then no chance.

The hard work Frank has put in to tighten the defence would be gone in a flash. His all-out attack philosophy would be non-existent, as at the moment we don't have a top-drawer striker to put away the chances.

There's also not a cat in hell's chance of us being in the Bottom 3 come the start of the World Cup, unless Aston Villa and Southampton are going to beat the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool and Newcastle. Though no doubt some would really like that!

Frank Crewe
224 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:06:29
So another season is rapidly turning into Groundhog Day.

A new manager, a bunch of new players, yet the outcome remains the same, another struggle against relegation. There must be something in the water at Everton. I'll bet if we had Man City's manager and players, and they had ours, we would still be in our current position.

Being an Everton supporter these days is like being on some never-ending treadmill. We just trudge from one wasted season to the next and treat avoiding relegation as our cup final.

If this was a normal season without the World Cup interupting it until late December, I have no doubt Lampard would be sacked in January if the season carried on as it is now. As it is, he has a 6-week break to work with whatever players don't go to the World Cup.

He had better have some answers by 26 December or his reign could rapidly come to a close, just like it did at Chelsea. Personally, if I was him, I would bin Calvert-Lewin. Unless he wakes up one morning and discovers he turned into Alan Shearer, he's as good – or should that be 'as crap' – as he's ever going to be.

If the rumours were true, it's hard to believe we could have got a combined £120 million for him and Gordon.

Pat Kelly
225 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:09:52
I have been a big admirer of Dwight McNeil for some time. He has huge talent and is exactly the type of player we want to bring into the squad to help us improve.

No, I haven't lost my marbles. Well not all of them. The above is a quote from Frank Lampard, who knows a good player when he sees one. After all, he has also made equally astute acquisitions in Maupay, Gueye and Onana.

And Ruben Vinagre. How could I have almost forgotten him?

James Garner may be a good signing but we just haven't seen enough of him. Tarkowski and Coady have definitely been an improvement in the centre of defence.

The development of our midfield and forward line has been a disaster under Lampard. Witness the goal drought we have become accustomed to. It will be his undoing sooner rather than later.

Jerome Shields
226 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:13:46
Maddison always has a field-day against Everton. Not in condensation for an England place, he is now being heralded as a racing certainty.

It could be that the rigid tactics going back and forward do not suit the players. Clubs are able to apply pressure on the players that are weak in it. This pressure self-perpetulates more problems onto a weak tactical implementation.

Everton need two attackers rather than a solo attacker to get their play more up the pitch and so as to leave less time and space available to the opposition.

Actually, Leicester where okay, but they will have problems climbing the table. Everton were very poor.

Peter Hodgson
227 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:17:43
Progress was made in the summer with the defence. They can't however do it all. The midfield needs to be more aware of what is going on around them and participate in stopping attacks reaching the defence. They are not playing their part.

However, much of the problem is not the defence or the midfield; it is the toothless attack. There were plenty of us who highlighted this during the summer and urged action, having sold Richarlison for a pretty penny, early in the window.

We have been suffering since the first kick-off for the decision 'that all will be right with just a token (Maupay) signing' to keep the masses quiet. It has worked to an extent but wasn't the answer as we are now realising.

I'll call again for some serious work to be done in January, expensive though it might be, to bring a goalscorer or two in as an option to Calvert-Lewin who isn't a natural anyway and who is a questionable asset.

I don't expect anything to be done so therefore I equally don't expect our season to end much differently than last season. Maybe we will escape relegation or maybe we won't.

Terry Downes
228 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:26:32
Personally, I'd get rid of Gordon even if he is better than McNeil. £60mill off Spurs, get two strikers in, and maybe a winger if funds permit?

Everyone can see where we're short so there's no excuses.

Fran Mitchell
229 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:28:55
I didn't watch the game, and rather pleased I didn't. However, as soon as I saw it was 0-1, I just knew we'd lose.

Leicester are improving and their low position didn't reflect the talent they have. And quite simply, we are very much a team lacking in firepower.

Gray should be nothing more than an impact substitute, McNeil and Gordon are both young, have potential, but are not top-level game changers. Calvert-Lewin is a long way off his best after continuous injury problems.

This problem gives opposition teams the confidence that they can push forward, control the ball, and even if they lose it, they are most likely not going to suffer the consequences.

The upcoming World Cup break is essential for us to work out a system and a way to effectively impact on games.

I even wonder whether we could do with introducing the youngsters Whitaker and Mills from the bench. While they need time, the vibrance, energy and unknown factor of these players might bring something unpredictable. Cause at the moment, our attack is wholly predictable.

Clearly this must be resolved in January, with at least a striker and a winger being targeted. Be it Diaz at Blackburn, Broja on loan, or someone like Dembele in France. Something new is needed.

Onana is raw, and is performing very well considering his age and experience. Keep persisting with him and it will pay off, probably next season and beyond rather than this season.

Iwobi is our best player, but needs to add goals to his game.

I don't know how we resolve it; this is why Frank and his team earn the big bucks. We are a broken team in repair and patience needed, but the Premier League can be an unforgiving place.

And the biggest worry is, if we don't manage to get consistent runs of wins on the board, we'll be sucked into a relegation battle.

This season, there is a clear lack of dead and buried teams. Leeds looked awful, but have won two on the trot; Villa look awful but have a new excellent manager; Bournemouth looked awful, hit a good run of form, and have suffered 2 turnovers in the last two games; Forest look like they have a team somewhere and could put a run of wins together eventually.

David Pugh
230 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:29:18
Denis #215.

"McNeil doesn't score goals."

I must have imagined those two against Southampton and Palace then!!

Joe McMahon
231 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:36:42
My concern about Roberto coming back is two things.

His last season at Everton with the same turgid play we see now (with Lukaku in the team). And as manager of Belgium, he has had some of the best players in Europe in the squad and not made even a final.

Fran Mitchell
232 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:37:38
The way Frank wants us to play, I think, really does require effective wingers.

Look at Arsenal (a whole other level, but that's what we should aim to replicate), with Martinelli and Saka. They are the same ages as McNeil and Gordon.

They are aggressive, skillful, fast, direct. They are a joy to watch, score and create in equal amounts. And Odegard added to that and they are always a threat.

Arteta was under huge pressure, and it took a while to get it working, so evidence that patience is important and simply changing the manager is not always the answer.

On Lampard, I'm still undecided on whether he has what it takes to make us a top-half Premier League team. But I'd rather we stick with him and find out over a couple of full seasons, because constant changing is as much of our issue as that of the players.

Sean Kelly
233 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:40:41
I have this image of Everton being a donkey but being ridden by Frank and bullshit Bill backwards.

They are lording it over past successes. Frank's as a player and yer man in Coronation Street.

I've an appointment with a nutty doctor tomorrow where he's the patient. I think.

David Pugh
234 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:49:11
Terry #228.

I was wondering why you said about Spurs offering £60M for Anthony Gordon, so I googled any potential rumours. Some of the dailys do indeed report an offer from Spurs in January. If true, then it's something we seriously need to consider.

Whatever has happened to Anthony Gordon, be it the transfer to Chelsea turned down, or his request for £100k per week, something has clearly affected his game.

If he is now becoming unsettled, then it's best all round if we sell him, particularly if Spurs want to pay £60M for him.

Derek Knox
235 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:52:11
Dennis @ 215, Whoa, McNeil doesn't score? He scored against Saints and Palace, as Dave Pugh has already said.

I was at the pre-season game at Goodison against Dynamo Kyiv, McNeil came on second half and scored two absolute beauties in the Gwladys Street goal, one a left-footed rocket (unstoppable) and the second a header.

Remember also, he has more often than not been used as a sub so how can he get any consistency? I think we have a decent player there but I may agree, we possibly paid a bit over the odds. But, then again, time will tell.

Personally, I like him and like Iwobi, who was the whipping boy for many on here, he has transformed himself given a decent run, and is almost undroppable now!

Give the lad a chance and if he continues to fail to produce, then by all means have your say then. I know yesterday's game was frustrating for all of us, and collectively they should all have done better, even the defence, who were marginally better than the outfield players.

I think, or rather hope the players know they have let us and themselves down badly yesterday; let's just hope it registers deeply before the long trip to Bournemouth.

Eddie Dunn
236 Posted 06/11/2022 at 12:58:29
The writing has been on the wall for long enough. Lampard spent ages last season telling us how many points were left to play for and we are all supposed to be thrilled that he "gets" Everton.

He seems a likable fellow and I know from my contact at Finch Farm that he is very popular with the players.

The defence has been upgraded and has rescued us from several defeats. It still has two slow centre-halves at its core and a slow Seamus Coleman on the right.

It wasn't my imagination that teams target Seamus because they all know that, once he shuffles up to halfway, there is space in behind that he will not be able to protect. Then Coady has to move over and the midfield cover fails to pick up runners.

We are too easy to open up.

Away from home, we can play on the counter but at home the crowd expect us to take the game to the opposition and our lack of midfield bodies leaves us wide open for the counter.

Gray is skilful but usually takes one touch too many and Gordon is falling off the proverbial cliff. Maupay needs to play off a targetman.

I am sure we could have got goals in our last two games had we played 4-4-2, sacrificing width for two up top. The defence would have more protection and we would be able to punt it direct if need be.

Frank and his coaching team seem stuck in a rut. It isn't working but he seems blind to the obvious and unable or unwilling to change tactics mid-game.

I fear a repeat of last season. I hope I am wrong.

Danny O’Neill
237 Posted 06/11/2022 at 13:00:33
David and Derek, exactly.

I'd be interested to see McNeil's minutes on pitch versus goals scored ratio. I think it would look okay in comparison to a lot of our squad.

It seems a lot have written him off before he's even started.

Mykolenko after one match. Patterson before he'd even played because there was an unfounded rumour that Duncan didn't rate him.

Let's get down to Bournemouth. It was a disappointing performance and result in a long season.

Dave Cashen
238 Posted 06/11/2022 at 13:52:56
Dwight McNeil really established himself in the Burnley team season 2019-20. He played 40 games and scored 2 goals.
He also played 40 games in 2020-21. He scored 2 in that season too. Last season, he again played 40 games. He didn't score any goals.

You don't need to be a football anorak to realise we have not signed Gerd Muller Mk11.

Enjoy the goals he got this season, hopefully he can get a couple more, but unless this leopard trades his spots for stripes, any team relying on his goals will surely be relegated. Ask Burnley.

Danny O’Neill
239 Posted 06/11/2022 at 14:18:00
You'll have to forgive me, Dave, as I've been left on my own with the dogs today!!

Thanks for the background research. Like a lot of players, I'd like to wait and judge him on how he does for Everton.

A player who was hardly prolific for Hereford, and only played less than one handful's games for them, went on to become an idol for many of us.

A young, unheard-of player from Dumbarton became our talisman.

I guess I'm saying, let's give these young lads a chance to prove themselves before we judge and crucify them.

McNeill - 22
Mykolenko - 23
Patterson - 21
Onana - 21
Gordon - 21

Gray and Calvert-Lewin are still only 26 and 25 respectively. Iwobi also still only 26.

They still have time to come good in an Everton shirt regardless of what they've done before.

Oliver Molloy
240 Posted 06/11/2022 at 14:45:55
My older brother called me last night, not normal on a Saturday night. His main love is rugby and the NFL due to his 20+ years in San Francisco, but he would be an all rounder sports fan – good man for a quiz team if you get me.

He joked to me "Everton have made you a grumpy fucker. You were grand for a few years in the eighties and maybe one in the nineties, but apart from those, the club you have invested so much of your time, soul and support to has let you down. As a club, Everton have a lot to answer for to their fans."

We spoke on Everton for around 30-odd minutes and a few points he made really made me think.

He said "Name me one player of real quality in your team or squad – and I mean game-changing quality, week-in & week-out, not the odd flash here and there. The last player you had was the Colombian guy who was brought in by one of the best and most successful managers in the world. You might say he knows a thing or two, and he knew your midfield had zero creativity. The same manager leaving for Real Madrid proved he made the right decision but something behind the scene wasn't right for Ancelotti." That was his opinion.

We talked some more and it was interesting, let's say, his opinion of our so-called better players I won't repeat, but his main beef is repeating mistake after mistake after mistake – we have been extremely badly run for a long long time.

And you know, when I think about quality, he is right – we have none of the kind we need.

I will be forever an Evertonian, but I am in the same boat as Andy Crooks, I am beginning to not care as much, or am I!

Dave Cashen
241 Posted 06/11/2022 at 14:53:48

Nobody champions young players more than I do.
See my earlier post.

You asked a question about McNeil's scoring record. I answered.

Sharp and Sheedy were clearly light years ahead of McNeil. I don't think going back 40 years for examples does him any favours.

Different levels.

Danny O’Neill
242 Posted 06/11/2022 at 14:56:33
Once again, apologies.

Kanchelskis, Oliver. He was top quality.

Rodriguez too. Oh how I'd love to have him for even just 15 games right now. It's a squad and rotation game.

But your brother is right. That's been it.

Whatever the reason, we messed up in not backing Ancelotti or getting him or someone like him sooner. Imagine what he'd have done with £500M.

And if anyone in the Main Stand would have tried to advise him, I think he would have sipped his coffee and just raised that eyebrow.

Danny O’Neill
243 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:01:13
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, Dave.

I'll judge him on his Everton career. I was commenting on his stats in an Everton shirt, which has only been this season.

I know we both hope his Everton career will be successful.

I don't have an issue making historical comparisons. It shows you that just because someone doesn't make it somewhere doesn't mean they can go on to be a success elsewhere. Regardless of time or generation.

Starting on Tuesday, when he hopefully gets his 3rd this season! Maybe even a 4th and an assist.

Tony Abrahams
244 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:12:25
Iwobi on a 5-year contract, is repeating those very same mistakes. I am quite positive about some of our younger players, and hope to see us sign a decent left-wingback, which I'm sure would really help our current squad.

Godfrey has got a lot to learn but possesses something none of our other central defenders really have, which is pace. Mykolenko has gone from looking like a fish out of water defensively, but now looks to be our best defensive player IMO.

So Coady or Tarkowski playing behind these two would do me. Patterson did fall over and hit a bad cross, but wasn't it good to see someone trying to run forward aggressively? And a good left-wingback would bring a lot of balance, imo.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but this would leave us with three central midfielders, and an extra striker, or someone who just floats in between the midfielders and the striker.
But, whatever the formation, Everton have got to start playing higher and condensing the pitch, and our players have got to start getting closer to each other, and also begin playing for 90 minutes, with a lot more aggression.

I expected a topsy-turvy season because most of our better players are young, and we still don't have enough quality across the board. If Lampard doesn't start getting his system right, then things could definitely start to really go downhill.

The upside is that we are beginning to move the ball better at times (maybe I'm an optimist) but it's not something we are doing anywhere near enough right now.

Joe McMahon
245 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:14:58
Dave, Oliver and Danny,

I'm not one for delving in the past, as all teams could do that. But for brief periods (although a lot longer than private jet Rodriguez), Peter Beardsley and Anders Limpar. Both were class.

Steven Kendrew
246 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:21:52
Very bad day at the office, but especially with the teams around us (Leeds, Villa, Leicester) all coming into form, and now these injuries. Worrying.
James Hughes
247 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:23:04
Yesterday was just awful and following on from the second half at Fulham was some of the worst football since Don Carlo was around.

Pickford must have had the most possession of any player on the pitch as the ball went to him at every opportunity. It went backwards monotonously, it was painful to watch.

A stat I have seen elsewhere is that this is the sixth game this season where we have allowed 20 shots on goal.

So basically no midfield cover at all. We had, yet again, a false hope that this season the opposition wouldn't just breeze through our midfield. However it seems we are more open than a brothel, or a 24/7 convenience store if you are easily offended.

Sacking Lampard is not the answer and bringing back Roberto is definitely not, as Gary suggested earlier. I just hope he is getting his head in the right place for this massive task ahead.

Denis Hignett
248 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:28:49
My view of McNeil is not a criticism of the player but of the money the club continues to pay for players.

I hope I am wrong and one day he looks like a £20M player.

Dave Abrahams
249 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:33:42
Tony (244), you are an optimist really, because the passing and lack of movement is still chronic. There is a real shortage of togetherness with this squad, no real fight, nobody getting angry with the pathetic mistakes like Coady's for the first goal and even worse Doucoure's girlish flick to an opponent which led to the second goal

Playing with 10 men for the second week running and Frank leaving him on for the whole game last week and only an injury took Onana off yesterday. I realise, as much as any fan, he's only young and new to the English game, but he's a handicap to the team at the moment. We can't afford to play him at the moment, he didn't seem to know where he was on the field, worse was his lack of effort – that can't be tolerated.

I watched the game on my iPad… lucky me not being there because I know I would have seen a lot more mistakes and rubbish watching it live, with the lack of running and supporting each other much more apparent when you are at the game.

It was bad enough watching it on the box. God help those at Goodison Park sitting through that excuse of a performance.

Tony Abrahams
250 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:38:48
They used to say the long ball was anti-football, but it won little Wimbledon the FA Cup, when it was a trophy that meant everything, and it also kept Sheffield Wednesday and Watford near the top of English league for quite a while.

I write this because I've just watched the highlights of Unsworth's Oldham getting knocked out the FA Cup, and Wrexham had a long throw that was better than a corner.

Football is many things, but surely it's about being competitive? If you're not competitive, it's simply impossible to win, in whatever style or formation that you choose to play the game.

Paul Birmingham
251 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:38:54
I'm my view, it's crazy to start calling for a new manager. Two weeks ago, it was all happy and reasonably pleased after Palace.

For the Bournemouth games, the squad must turn up and play like a team, and get the basics right.

Yesterday was a shit day for all concerned, no repeat on Tuesday at the Vitality.

It's worse that when there's a chance to go ahead of the RS, the type of performance yesterday happens.

But the smelling salts are out again, and Tuesday is a must-win game for Everton, bearing the dwell time to the next Premier League game, and the Christmas scramble of fixtures.

I hate to say it but the Skunks are playing some decent counter-attacking at Southampton.

Hope eternal, UTFTs!

Gary Johnson
252 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:52:54
Assuming we haven't got the balls and ambition to get a Simeone, Tuchel or Pochettino… an Amorim, Gallardo, Garcia, Low, R. Martinez, D. Martinez, and even Dyche would be better bets than Frank for us right now.

That 4-1-4-1 cost us the game yesterday. He is naive beyond words, too slow to fix things that are plainly not working.

Anyone saying “it's crazy to change manager" should watch Villa today. Chalk and cheese.

Colin Glassar
253 Posted 06/11/2022 at 15:55:19
Paul, that's the fickleness of people on here. Win a game and he's a genius, lose one and he's the devil in disguise.

I'm as worried as the next man but there are no magic solutions to Everton's problems, only hard work, patience and balls of steel. Get a grip, for Christ's sake!

Brian Murray
254 Posted 06/11/2022 at 16:01:34
Before Danny even thinks it, never mind says it, Bournemouth away will be our Oxford Keven Briock moment. Okay, another Stella heading my way and I'll elaborate.
Bill Gall
255 Posted 06/11/2022 at 16:10:07
Not a fan of Bill Kenwright – I believe he should step down.. The major problem to me is with the new owner, Moshiri. When Kenwright as majority shareholder became owner of Everton FC, he had David Moyes as manager wh,o with very little money from the club, kept the club in a reasonable position.

Next, we get a billionaire In as owner who can hire or fire who he wants and we go through 7 managers and not looking at records in less time thatn Moyes had, and now is looking to sell to investors.

So where do people think the problem is? A chairman when owner who provided little money to a manager, who stayed for practically the same length of time as a new owner that has gone through 7 managers, providing adequate financial support for each manager?

As I said at the beginning, Kenwright is not the man for the job, but who hired him and is lying back knowing who will get all the blame?

The biggest mess is on the playing side. Everton as a large organization is more than the playing side, so there are people there behind the scenes doing a good job.

Maybe the answer is to get a Chairman to just look after the playing side, and another one to look after the business side.

Christy Ring
256 Posted 06/11/2022 at 16:23:40
It's unbelievable that some of the comments are looking to sack Lampard. He took over a squad last season that totally lacked confidence and kept us in the Premier League.

Kenwright & Moshiri are the problem. In case you've forgotten, Lampard is trying to build a squad with a pittance. He lost our best attacker during the summer in Richarlison, brought in Tarkowski on a free, Coady on loan, and used the Richarlison money on Onana, McNeil and the only striker we could afford was Maupay for £15M.

How much had Arteta to spend? Have a reality check, he's not a Magician.

I was as disappointed as everyone after our performance against Leicester, he even used 5 subs to try and change things.

I slated Onana, but he shouldn't have started if he was carrying an injury. We had Gueye, Onana and Iwobi in a 3-man midfield, some on here said we had 2 in midfield? It felt like that because Onana was a passenger.

I'd play Davies, Garner and Iwobi in midfield Tuesday night, with Gueye and Onana carrying injuries, no matter what Ian says about 2 defensive midfielders. Leicester had 2 defensive midfielders last night, but Maddison was the difference.

Some slating Seamus again, and that he should have been gone 3 years ago? Did Patterson do any better on Barnes when he came on, who scored the 2nd goal?

Frank was praising Mykolenko's performance, as were a few on here, wasn't he marking Maddison, the standout player last night?

Larry O'Hara
261 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:00:29

In Frank We Trust (well I do anyway)….

James Newcombe
262 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:06:52
It's not what I want to happen, but I can definitely see Roberto coming back in the New Year. Especially if results don't improve quickly…

It's a tight, unpredictable league this season and we need to get our act together soon.

Ian Edwards
263 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:07:59

We should play 4-4-2 with one defensive midfielder in the midfield 4 and two up front.

I would play:

Patterson Coady Tarkowski Vinagre
Gordon Iwobi Garner McNeil
Maupay Rondon

If our only fit forwards are those two, then they play. They are useless on their own but should be more effective in a two. I'd drop Mykolenko. He passes backwards too much.

Paul Birmingham
264 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:10:18
Concur, Colin, tough and fickle times for all, with the UK and Global economy challenges, bills etc and then all matters Everton, but the next game is the most important.

Let's see which Everton turn up and regardless back the team and management to the hilt, every game.

Danny O’Neill
265 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:17:24
Looked to me like Tottenham tried 4-4-2 there.

Against a team that doesn't generally use its midfield.

They (Sky) have just called them the Reds.

Feel sick.

Brendan McLaughlin
266 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:18:43
James #262,

You could be right. Roberto has unfinished business at Everton... he didn't get us relegated first time around.

Sam Hoare
267 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:22:01
I was not a fan of Lampard's appointment and I have not been overly impressed with his work so far but I don't think sacking him is the answer. At least not yet.

He's been here less than a year and needs time to properly implement his system and ideas. Plus the club desperately needs some consistency after so much change and turmoil for the last 5 years.

That being said, I am worried. We are really terrible with the ball and I think have been lucky defensively, where a combination of Pickford and bad finishing by the opposition have helped us out.

There's not a huge amount we can do to freshen up the attack and we really need to add options in January. I like McNeil as a player generally but I'm not sure he's what we needed this summer; neither is Maupay.

We needed a winger who could score and assist goals and a forward who could act as focal point and fill in for Calvert-Lewin. But then it is extremely hard to find regular goal contributors without paying big bucks.

There's been some strange decisions by Lampard, like continuing to play Onana in the left midfield spot when that is where Iwobi has done his best work, and playing 4-3-3 rather that the 4-2-3-1 which worked so well against Palace.

It will be interesting to see what he changes. Personally, I feel the performaces of our centre-backs have been over-egged somewhat and, whilst Tarkowski has impressed me, Coady has less so. I'd be curious to see Mina or Godfrey coming in for him to see if we can manage a slightly higher line potentially.

Stick to the 4-2-3-1 and don't leave Gana to do all the covering by himself.

It's going to be another battle this season and I'll be happily surprised if we're not around the relegation spots. Buy a winger who can find the net without losing the ball every second touch in January and, if we've any spare money, then grab a striker who can hold the ball up.

Soren Moyer
268 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:25:33
Bringing back Bobby Brown Shoes!!!? Laughable. He nearly got us relegated! Remember? Phenomenal!!!
Gary Johnson
269 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:26:46
It's unbelievable that some use 'unbelievable' against those who want rid of another failing manager.

When he took over, we were 15th, now we are 16th.

He's turned a slow, mistake-ridden defence into a slow mistake-ridden defence.

He's turned a slow midfield that offered little support to either the defence or attack, into a slow midfield that offers little to either.

He's turned a blunt attack into an even blunter attack.

He's stopped the progression of any kids, stocking the squad full of middlemen and continuously preferring the safer option.

Here's the reality check: he is not progressing us in any way, shape or form. None. Zero. No matter how much you cling to Tarkowski and Coady, they are a minor upgrade on Keane and Mina. The significantly less-potent attack more than offsets any improvement here.

Arguing “it's cos Maddison is just too good” is defeatist and a poor excuse. Plenty of teams have beaten Leicester this season… they are at best midtable, but look like Champions League against Fickle Frank's Fantastically poor team.

The argument about 2 or 3 in the middle is equally bizarre. He played 4-1-4-1 yesterday, but failed to tell the 1 to sit. The resultant whole was bigger than the UK deficit post-covid.

He is not an answer to anything other than blind hope. My worry is we've used up all the luck in last season's relegation battle.

One more game: win or go.

Christy Ring
270 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:28:52

I don't disagree with 4-4-2 but, in my opinion, Gordon, Gray and McNeil are very lightweight, and last night very poor again.

We definitely need a winger in January, Richarlison hasn't been replaced.

Fran Mitchell
271 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:34:07
I expect we'll move back to 3-5-2 when Godfrey is fit; with the form of our wide forwards, I'd not be against it.

Godfrey Coady Tarkowski or Mykolenko;
Patterson and McNeil as full-backs;
Iwobi, Onana, and Gana but with Iwobi higher up and Onana being more defensive;
Maupay and Calvert-Lewin as a 2.

The month-long World Cup break is where Lampard needs to earn his dosh, find and develop a style that suits the players we have, win ugly if need be. School of Science is a long way off and the players we have just ain't up to passing attacking football.

Dave Cashen
272 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:43:11
I came on here to praise Seamus for having Zaha in his arse pocket a few weeks back, but he has been a complete passenger since and to be fair he was poor before.

It's not just his lack of speed, but his speed of thought. It's alright hammering young wingers, but having Seamus behind them will not inspire confidence.

John Kavanagh
273 Posted 06/11/2022 at 17:43:13
I posted on the pre-match thread that Leicester would be a test of whether we really are an improving team. We got our usual answer - in terms of results NO.

There have been improvements in the defence but yesterday the midfield was crap and we have serious problems with wide players who don't know when to release the ball or cross with any accuracy.

We go into our next game once again playing a team below us, but now we are in 16th position. Our opponents have kept two clean sheets all season. Guess who will gift them a third.

If our usual away form holds and Southampton get a win at that place then we will be in the bottom three for the Blatter break. I'd just play the youngsters in the cup game as Saturday's match has now become far too important to risk any more injuries.

Bournemouth are likely to do the same as they are now as desperate as us to pick up points. At least I can be grateful to Blatter now because Everton won't be ruining my Christmas. Southgate will be more than up to that task.

P.S. I'd definitely play Mills - in both Bournemouth matches. Come January we must take whatever offers we can get for Keane, Mina and Doucoure to help fund a better forward option than Maupay.

Oliver Molloy
274 Posted 06/11/2022 at 18:10:35
Christy 5 posts,
In my opinion.
The fans kept us in the PL along with a huge helping hand from Palace.
Only for this Lampard may have been the manager to have us relegated.
I have said before, I did not like his "couldn't give a fuck" attitude after Arsenal hammered us 5 - 1 last game of the season - no manager looking to get to the top would just dismiss this.

Regards Seamus, I admire your defence of this true Evertonian, but Patterson is the future.

Raymond Fox
275 Posted 06/11/2022 at 18:26:12
The bottom line is that our players from the midfield forward are ordinary.
Our defence is obviously pretty decent but our attack is sadly lacking, if you cant score you cant win. They were the best team no doubt but we missed 2 or 3 good scoring chances.

I thought we were fav to win this one but I did say we usually take a dive when we are expected to win.
To be fair Leicester had been showing good form recently, so it wasnt any great suprise I suppose.

Talk of changing the manager again are brainless, what are we trying to do set a world record for the number of sackings.
We need a couple of goal scorers for Christmas, but again they wont be world beaters, we will just have to get the best we can.

Its starting to look worrying again.

Gary Johnson
276 Posted 06/11/2022 at 19:11:25
Brainless is ignoring the evidence in front of your eyes: Lampard is as out of his depth as Slippy-G was. Great player, naive and boring manager.
Christy Ring
277 Posted 06/11/2022 at 19:24:35
Oliver#274 I agree totally that Patterson is the present and future, and the reason I defend Seamus is because the criticism he gets is totally wrong, he shouldn’t be expected or asked to play week in week out, even when Patterson was injured, he’s 34 not 24. The fans are superb, they were a massive help last season, but the fans alone and Palace didn’t keep us in the Premiership, Lampard the coaching staff and the team still had to win the matches for us to survive.
Oliver Molloy
278 Posted 06/11/2022 at 19:47:30
Lampard got very very lucky Christy.
He showed against Burnley he had no clue how to manage and see the game out when we were in front. Had he done so we all could have breathed a sigh of relief earlier than the Palace game.
As I said he could very easily have been the manager to have taken us down a league _ you never know he still might do as I think a decision has already been made that no matter what Lampard is here to build HIS team.
Bernie Quinn
279 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:04:42
Well its all been said above, so I can't possibly comment! Except to you Christine - I'm missing your cheerful comments; and Danny, perhaps you are being too cheerful under the circumstances - it doesn't sound like reality. Lets hope the Cup win on Tuesday can bring a smile back on my face.
In Frank I Trust
Joe McMahon
280 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:08:53
Christy -Seamus could always communicate with the manager about his fitness. Also he could have retired from playing international football, like many do to keep in better conditiosn for their clubs.

Yes nice guy, loyal servant, he's one of us, he gets Everton etc etc, yawn. Remember he plays for good money (like they all do). He's yesterdays man, and along with all his mates from the Moyes years they won us Sweet FA, and time after time shit themselves playing Liverpool and the rest of the big boys.

Time for the new man, I'm with Oliver, Nathan may well be a winner.

281 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:14:08
Joe #280

Big clue...Lampard's the manager...Seamus doesn't pick himself

Bernie Quinn
282 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:14:22
PS - to change the subject - I haven't heard from you, John McFarlane Senior for quite some time - Are you OK?
Joseph Terrence
283 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:18:02
I post infrequently but here is a slightly simplistic view from me.

We need better wide players. Gray simply is not good enough - he has no end product at all - and Gordon blows hot and cold. We can probably get away with Gordon's inconsistent form if we have a solid player on the other flank, but with Gray playing, we have at most two attacking players on the pitch that are capable of scoring. More often than not, it's actually just one person (Calvert -Lewin).

It really is that simple. With Patterson fit, our defense is solid and our midfield doesn't have world beaters - but a combination of gueye, onana, iwobi or Garner is solid enough... if only we had creativity and legitimate threats out wide.

It is also worth noting that this is a massive improvement over the shit we had last year. It remains to be seen if we can paper over the cracks and survive again, but we'll be fine if we get a good winger in January. I fear we'll wind up in the sunk cost fallacy land of sticking with McNeil who also is not good enough. I can't recall seeing a premier league player that is more one footed, we may as well have kept josh bowler and saved the 15m

Brian Murray
284 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:20:22
Joe. I did say the same about loveable seamus to Christy. One of Moyes losers although he’s a great servant. Time for a new unrelated Everton team with no linked to the past failures. That goes for right through the club. fran post 271 I don’t believe for one minute the World Cup break will help lampard reflect and learn to be a better manager, last season should of been more than enough although the break will be bliss for all us fans.
Dave Abrahams
285 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:24:46
Christy (277), Do you really think Lampard, his coaches and the players would have kept us up if the supporters hadn’t taken over and showed the incredible support before games n the streets around the ground, at Finch Farm before games home and away,greeting them at the away grounds at Watfordon a Wednesday night where Frank bottled it playing for a draw,the team was down 2- 0 v Palace because he picked Gomes to the astonishment of any sane fan, we dragged the team home in that second half.

Frank might still become the manager every Everton fan wants him to be,we know he hasn’t got the players he needs to play the way he wants them to play, but he keeps playing the same way, he and his chosen coaches need to find a system these players can adopt to, we’ve won three league games this season, if this was Benitez do you think he would get the support Frank is getting from plenty of fans?

Brian Wilkinson
286 Posted 06/11/2022 at 20:36:07
When Frank came in I thought it would be a breath of fresh air, after all he was renowned for giving youngsters a chance, yet in all his time in charge he not not given one single youngster a proper chance.

Last season we could say it was not the right time, yet at Chelsea, injuries forced his hand, and to be honest, I thought the ones that came in for that game held their own.

Tuesday is an ideal time to give a couple at least a spot on the bench, we lost Tiery Small, City have snapped up another one of our youngsters, if these for the U23 and below cannot see a path towards the first team, more will follow the exit door.

For some year after year we hear they are not ready, we cannot rush them through, yet the likes of Rashford, Foden, Mount and the likes were given a chance at a young age.

Apart from Gordon, who Raffa brought into the first team and Tom Davies, we just do not seem to be able to nature a youngster or two to the first team squad, even when we do, they get little more than a few minutes game time.

I read in an earlier post a comment here we go about the youngsters again, it has never gone away with me, it is still a sore point that we just do not seem to give any a real chance.

It’s been the same for a long time now,with the same defence of they are not ready for the first team, when will they be ready?

Sometimes you just need to give them a chance, if we are struggling in games and in the same hole as last season,then something needs changing, it will be too late for some of the youngsters to break through, if we are in a scrap again.

So here is hoping that one or two of them get a chance on Tuesday evening.

We cannot continue season after season, not bringing at least one youngster through the first team squad.

Danny Baily
287 Posted 06/11/2022 at 21:02:53
Dave 285, Rafa had us waiting months (months!) for a league win after a good start. This season we've been rubbish, but consistently rubbish. It is different. Rafa simply had to go, Frank deserves the time.

The minute the bookies have us in the three teams to go down, we can talk about a change of manager. We're close to that (were fifth favourites for the drop at the moment), but we're not there yet.

It's as though it's only just dawning on some that we're in a relegation battle.

Dave Abrahams
288 Posted 06/11/2022 at 21:14:41
Danny (287), I wouldn’t argue too much over Rafa, except to say quite a lot of the players stopped play for him.

Frank has got different players in this season and he’s still trying to sort out a system that suits them, on Saturday he made many changes during the game but didn’t seem to change the plan, whatever the plan was, it wasn’t working.

By the way have you checked the difference in points total between Benitez,who was also starting with a very poor squad, and Lampard, I doubt if there is much difference.

Robert Tressell
289 Posted 06/11/2022 at 21:17:21
Brian @ 286, the reason our youngsters are not being given a chance is lack of quality. It is as simple as that.

If we had youngsters of the talent of Rashford, Foden and Mount they would be first teamers by 18 / 19.

Just as Ball, Rodwell, Jeffers etc before them.

We have no-one in that league.

Samuels-Smith is our best bet and he's a 16 year old left back so not going to replace Mykolenko.

Laurie Hartley
290 Posted 06/11/2022 at 21:40:07
Ray Roche # 211 and Ian Edwards # 263,

Ray - He was the last time I saw him on a football pitch - he looked a stone lighter and I noticed 9 times out of 10 the ball he passes the ball to one of our players.

Ian - I noticed you didn’t get mauled over your line up. Maybe because it makes sense. Except I wouldn’t drop Mykolenko.

If DCL isn’t fit and he doesn’t play your front two then I am going to have to conclude he has a stubborn streak.

Christy Ring
291 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:08:17
Joe #280 #Brian#284 You can say Coleman was one of Moyes losers and shit on themselves against Liverpool and the big teams. I've a different opinion of Seamus, one of the best buys ever for €60,000, and I always saw a winner, when he played against the reds or any top team. Sadly we only had one Seamus Coleman on the team not 11.
Mike Gaynes
292 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:15:19
Brian #286, can you think of any neglected youngsters to whom we should have given a chance, who later turned out to be really good players for somebody else?

I can think of one. Antonee Robinson.

Other than that, there are a couple of guys like Forshaw and Lundstram who eventually made good in the Championship and years later got promoted into a brief Prem career with their clubs, but whom we never really missed.

And then there are the youngsters who made the bench once in a while and had people on TW calling for them but never really got a shot -- McAleny, Benigime, Connolly, Broadhead, Dowell, etc. etc. etc.

And do we miss any of them? Have we any regrets about those guys I just named? No. None of them have proven us wrong, besides Jedi. One mistake I can think of in the past 10-12 years or so.

Yes, youngsters should get a chance -- but only IF they earn it, IF they're good enough. Not just because they're young and it's time and "they couldn't be any worse" as is a common sentiment around here.

Barry Rathbone
293 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:26:55
The thing with Coleman is despite being a wonderful servant to the club his best days vanished years ago and still getting a game is the biggest indicator sentimentality rather than professionalism rules at this club.

He's a smashing lad and a credit it to the club in so many ways and it's a bit like bashing kittens to openly say this - but he should have been replaced a long time ago.

Sean Kelly
294 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:45:01
BarRy please don't be doing a Zouma on Seamus. Like someone said earlier he doesn't pick the team. If Frank picks Seamus its because he doesnt have someone available to him. Patterson is just back from injury and super conservative Frank decided Seamus was his choice for this game. Funny enough I don't think its Franks fault either. Its down to the recruitment department and those fools in charge of our club.
Mike Price
295 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:54:03
Gary #269 Totally agree with all your comments. He seems decent but he’s not a an elite manager, he’s out of his depth. I’d take Martinez back over him in a heartbeat. Please don’t give Iwobi an extended contract…just don’t do it. If he’s so good I’m sure there’ll be a list of top 6 suitors waving cheque books at us; don’t hold your breath though.
Tom Bowers
296 Posted 06/11/2022 at 22:58:03
We have weaknesses that we all recognize and I am sure Lampard does too.

Injuries to ''starters'' certainly don't help matters but all clubs have to go through phases with key injuries and those that get by are those with strength in depth and Everton doesn't.

Yes, I agree Seamus is not the player he was and the Foxes seEmed to want to exploit this early in the game and kept Everton on the back foot.

Having said that the whole team was absent in that first half and conceding first at the half was crucial.

It's hard to see what Frank can do with this squad right now until the offense is improved.
The likes of Gray, McNeill, Gordon, Maupay and others are just not topnotch in a consistent sense to really carry us through.

Even DCL was wasted yesterday and his aerial battles were unsupported so often usually because Everton's defence took so long to get the ball forward.

The defence really is awful against the high press of other teams who do it well like Leicester did yesterday.

If nobody is signed in January then it looks like a relegation battle again on the evidence of the season so far.

Beating Palace, West Ham and Soton is nothing great.

Paul Birmingham
297 Posted 06/11/2022 at 23:40:38
Transcend the doomsday book, for now and in context a football match v Bournemouth, this Tuesday.

The nap is DCL, won’t start, does any one know, any different, but if Everton win, the must win is the EPL game.

Being honest, from the start, and pre the match, not much gut feeling, confirmed in the first few minutes of the game.

Next game.

So let’s see, intensity, desire, belief, and shooting outside the box.

No disrespect to Evertonians across, the globe, but I’d keep the squad training at Finch Farm, in all matters match football, over the World Cup Tournament, but perhaps the Australian mini, and playing Celtic, will also deliver some recruitment potential, at a good price.

So, v Wolves on Boxing Day, Cody, can’t play, so, I hope in my view that who ever his replacement, is is brought in early, and not from the cold.

Mason Holgate, or Mina, get ready.. Everton, it’s a life time, and beyond sketch, a Dynasty sketch.


Brian Wilkinson
298 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:05:31
I thought Phil Jevans was a decent youngster we let go, I also think we have a few youngsters knocking on the door as well, Kyle John right back, Warrington out onloan midfield, along with Issac price midfield, Stanly Mills and Tom Cannon attacking players, any of the above could at least be recruited to the bench, I do not think any of the above players would let the team down.

It’s all about being given a chance, let’s not forget as well, they will be playing alongside seasoned first team players, so will help with bringing their game along as well.

I’m not asking for all the above to be thrown in at the same time, but a bit of rotation and one or two given a chance now and again, would help with their progress.

What you will get from youngsters is effort, closing players down and running for 90 mins.

With 5 subs now permitted, surely even one youngster could and should be an option from the bench.

Rob Dolby
299 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:07:22
Brian 286. Lampard had little choice in giving players a chance at Chelsea because they couldn't buy anyone.

At Derby they bent the ffp rules to go for the prem with young Chelsea players Tomori, Mount and Wilson from the shite.

With us he is giving Patterson, Mykolenko, Onana, Gordon a go as he doesn't have much choice. We aren't blessed with young goal scorers otherwise he would be playing them. Is Cannon or Onronko (pardon my spelling) ready?

Dave 288 I know your playing devils advocate with the Benitez judgement but let's face it he would have taken us down. Benitez got off to a great start then we didn't win for 3 months. If Lampard goes the next 3 months without a win he will also get sacked.

We lost to a better team on Saturday. The worrying thing for me are lampards tactics especially around the use of Onana.

For all of Leicester's dominance they scored a goal of the season contender and an injury time breakaway. It wasn't great to watch but it wasn't a surrender like we witnessed under Benitez last season. Does anyone remember the Watford home game last season or do people just remember the last defeat?

Haters got to hate I suppose.

Don Alexander
300 Posted 06/11/2022 at 00:13:02
I haven't read the entirety of the thread but so many of us repeatedly comment on the inadequacies in the squad (but to me the current one is better than in recent £half-a-billion useless seasons) rather than looking into why it remains, at best, ordinary.

I doff my cap to Lampard and "his" coaches, and Thelwell in entering the cess-pit of incompetence that we've been in for years, but as Mike Gaynes points out we have virtually never from Finch Farm, since Rooney, produced a notable professional footballer in any league at all. Similarly we have never sold a useless player regardless of the extortionate price we paid to acquire him who then went on to success elsewhere.

But not enough Toffees want to even identify, never mind try to change, the quicksand swallowing the club for decades, expensively consuming serial managers, useless expensive players, no-chance sprogs, and hope.

Go figure.

Mike Gaynes
301 Posted 07/11/2022 at 01:45:13
Mike #295, you'd have Martinez back in a heartbeat?

Based on what?

He hasn't been a club manager in seven years, when we sacked him amidst a fan rebellion. In his last two seasons with us he won 22 of 75, or 29%. Catastrophic.

His rumored return to Goodison last winter would have been equally catastrophic. He's a fine tournament manager, for his clubs and for Belgium. As a week-in, week-out league manager, he's a total and complete failure.

Last guy in the world I would bring back.

Kieran Kinsella
302 Posted 07/11/2022 at 02:07:41

Interesting stat. Frank is at 28.1 win (EPL only) percentage. Although obviously different circumstances with RM picking up from Moyes 41 percent wins and getting progressively worse versus Frank I think picking up on 1 win in 17 from Rafa. I have to keep reminding myself Frank hasn’t even been in the job for a year when I hear these “sack Frank” calls. Silva and Koeman had an extra six months in role, spent a shit ton of money and were worse at this point in their second seasons. Anyway not sure what my point is lol as I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you just your post inspired me to look at stats

Kieran Kinsella
303 Posted 07/11/2022 at 02:24:54
Mike/Brian Wilkinson

Rose tinted glasses on Jevons Brian he never did better than third tier. The “ones we let her away” if you will we’re Mustafi — German international, Arsenal for a time then when downhill rapidly. Lundstram average at Sheff Utd. John Ruddy played EPL at Norwich, and Ryan Ledson now 25 at PNE may rise to the level of Lundstram. But while they’re the best post Rooney none of them would have made us better just would have added to the mediocre “depth”

Don Alexander
304 Posted 07/11/2022 at 04:01:06
Kieran, be careful mate; I think "mediocre depth" is our obvious-to-everyone-else trade-mark, bizarrely disdained by Kenwright supporters as a modus operandi despite utterly futile decades, repeatedly.

Maybe some of the thankfully diminishing Kenwright supporters on here are able to justify the benefits of him to our club?

I await, for now, with interest, a credible response,

Paul Burns
305 Posted 07/11/2022 at 04:27:32
It is only a matter of time before Everton are relegated.

Kenwright's scattergun method of dictatorship will catch up one day… billions wasted on embarrassing garbage, no improvement in results or performance, second-rate players hanging around for years like a bad smell at a nursing home – which is what the club have become, while ignoring supporters and shareholders and making himself rich.

The new ground is a false horizon; as long as Chairman Kenwright is in charge, Everton will be awful and win nothing.

Tony Abrahams
306 Posted 07/11/2022 at 07:19:55
I’m wondering if that’s sarcasm at it’s finest Laurie H? Maybe not!

Joseph T, that’s also how I see it right now. We don’t look dangerous when we get the ball out wide, and this is one of the reasons why I think Lampard has got to change his formation.

Robert Tressell
307 Posted 07/11/2022 at 07:25:22
Brian / Rob

John, Warrington, Price, Cannon, Mills and Okoronkwo.

Good, likeable players definitely.

Of these I can see maybe one or two squad players. Nothing in the same class as Foden, Rashford and Mount.

Nothing either in the same class as Gordon.

You can give youth a chance - but they have to be good. Look at how hard young Onana is finding it. And he's likely to go to the World Cup.

We have to invest much more in thr academy to reap any rewards.

Tony Abrahams
308 Posted 07/11/2022 at 07:35:02
Onana is finding out that you cannot stroll about in this league, Robert, but he's still getting picked and still being allowed to play nearly every minute, even though teams can now use 5 subs.

Football is about working hard, and if you can use 5 subs, then the last thing you should tolerate is a player who is strolling. It's all about opinions, I'm aware a player can't be good every week, but he's got to be prepared to run and run, and especially now that his manager can use 5 subs.

Mike Gaynes
309 Posted 07/11/2022 at 07:50:55
Well, we should have two chances at Bournemouth to see how a defensive midfield of Doucoure & Garner compares to Gana & Onana. Neither of the latter will play after their niggling injuries Saturday, largely because both have tickets to Qatar.
Christy Ring
310 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:03:47

Onana was supposed to be carrying an injury, why did he start? He should have been hooked at halftime. A total passenger, lost possession for the first goal.

Doucoure was off the pace, Davies would have been a better option in my opinion

Danny O’Neill
311 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:12:53
Well, as always, we all see it different.

We have improved. We fixed the most immediate concern – the defence. We are difficult to beat.

I don't know if people have short memories, but we reversed the result against West Ham and kept a clean sheet in the derby. I'm not even going to bother looking but can't recall us conceding more than 2 in a single game this season. I stand by to be called out on that one.

Being difficult to beat was Phase One. It won't however work all of the time and it won't win us games all of the time.

Those who suffered the indignity and harrowing experience of watching us against Watford at home and Tottenham away last season, amongst others I may add, will see that improvement. Another one that grated with me was conceding 3 to Brighton and losing at home despite scoring 2. That was a long and difficult trip home.

Yes, the next challenge and step is to sort out the midfield and attacking options. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. January will be interesting as we move to the next phase of re-building and re-assembling the squad.

Mike Gaynes; really good point on Martinez being a tournament manager. I often felt and voiced that about him. After all, he won the FA Cup yet got the same team relegated in the same season. Again, I'll have to leave that to the stattos, but I don't recall any manager or team "achieving" that feat.

I love the cups and want to win one this season, so never dismiss those competitions like some. But as in life, do the basics first. Aside from that first season, I think his focus was more on the cups. Just a hunch.

Dave Abrahams @285, thank you for my morning smile and chuckle with that first paragraph. That Watford away match was characterised by the support, as were many matches in that run-in. Even though we got little in return that night, it got us one point closer to the line and we all knew the reality of the situation so were behind them and gave them a decent reception at the end when they came over.

Final word to Dave Cashen @272. Very good point regarding Seamus. It made me think. Do the wide players have to be more cautious when Seamus plays, so take away the threat they could pose? Or do they carry on and leave Seamus exposed? As a few have pointed out, Leicester and other teams this season have definitely been targeting that side of the pitch.

All respect to Seamus and I'm not singling him out, but if the manager believes Patterson is fit, let's start him. Starting tomorrow night.

Bournemouth here we come. Twice. Full return please Everton.

Tony Abrahams
312 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:22:27
I know you really like Mykolenko, Danny, but I personally don't think he offers enough going forward on the other side?

I think he's improved his defensive game massively though, and this is one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind him moving inside and becoming a third central defender.

This is a system that I think would suit our present squad, but only once we can find somebody to play up and down the left.

You can see Onana has got loads of ability, Christy, during the few times he really comes alive, but he constantly drifts in and out of the game, so maybe telling him he's only going to play for an hour until he adapts might work?

Mike Price
313 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:26:15
Mike #301,

Martinez at least gave us a great season and we got to keep the ball a lot! I know it went wrong but I think he's learned from those defensive misgivings. He is a manager and the Number 1 ranked team on the planet have had him for years.

I just don't see anything encouraging from Lampard; I wish I did because I'd love him to be the real deal but, from set-up, in-game management and recruitment, he seems sadly lacking.

Mark Murphy
314 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:37:07
I agree with Danny – we’re better – just not much better. I was disappointed with the result and performance on Saturday but surprisingly not as gutted as I have been, despite feeling more optimistic leading up to this game.

Again, as Danny says, I felt much worse several times last season – I was at Spurs but I think Norwich away was my nadir.

The defence is pretty much there – we’re just toothless in attack and I'm beginning to think we need to step up massively from the Gordon, Gray or McNeil options - they're just not top-half quality. And Gordon needs to lose the titty lip!

Tony, good shout re Mykolenko. I'm surprised we havent seen Vinagre at left-wingback before now.

Pat Kelly
315 Posted 07/11/2022 at 08:59:40
So Southampton are sacking their manager as they've won only 3 Premier League matches this season.

Getting close, Frank...

Rob Halligan
316 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:03:46

Patterson should start tomorrow, and should definitely start on Saturday. Play the strongest possible team tomorrow and get through. I'm sick to death of clubs picking “Weaker” sides in cup competitions. Get the job done and then make the substitutions.

See you in The Mello Mello Bar!

Sean Roe
317 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:10:25
You can't expect a team to be under pressure defensively for 90 minutes virtually every game and not concede goals.

Yes, we are better defensively; yes, we show more character when we go behind; and yes, we may draw a few more games now because of these two things… but if you don't score goals, you don't get 3 points (sorry for stating the obvious).

Bournemouth have some absolute monsters in terms of height in their team. If they are allowed to pump crosses into the box without let up for the entire match it will only end up one way.

The problem is we have no answers going the other way and if Calvert-Lewin is out the ball won't stick up front.

Why, when we knew we only had a certain amount of money did we decide to buy three defensive midfielders and no attacking players?

Three Number 10s a few years ago, three defensive midfielders this time around, do we ever learn?

Dave Cashen
318 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:27:36

I couldn't disagree more. I think our defence problem is a million miles away from being solved.

Take a look at some of the stuff Brian Harrison has been posting. I think you will find it really interesting.

Brian is looking beyond the bare stats. He's actually recording stuff like how many shots the opposition are getting. How many touches Harry Kane had in our box. How many good chances the Fulham striker missed. Leicester may only have scored two, but it could easily have been 5-6.

Like me, Brian worries that we are playing too much of the games in our own half. That the fear of the back two of pushing up is putting a straight-jacket on the whole team. We can point the finger at others, but we won't score goals playing in our own half.

Gana and Onana are also coming in for a bit of stick, but they are playing where they should be playing. The problem is, our two centre-halves are playing so deep, often in their own box. What should be five yards balls into the feet of midfield players are often travelling twice that distance. that gives opponents a much better chance of ambushing them. We are wide open to the press.

I don't see any merit in not conceding more than two goals when we barely get into the opposition box. The way we are going, we need to score with every single chance just to break even.

On Seamus.

I can't accept he was one of Moyes's failures. At his best, he was a fantastic marauding full-back. His regular Top 6-7 finishes could easily have been turned into Champions League tournaments if he had played for an Everton team with a striker.

I agree with you. I think he is being targeted. He is clearly past his best. and I fear Frank's blindness to that fact could well end up tarnishing Coleman's legacy.

Danny O’Neill
319 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:39:13
I'd agree on Mykolenko with you Tony on both counts.

He lacks the attacking side to his game although scored a really nice goal against Leicester last season and his shot inside the box led to a goal against Palace a couple of weeks ago.

But there's a point in those rare examples. Both were from very central positions.

I agree with you, he's solid defensively and at 22, still young enough to be coached and developed to improve that side of his game. And in Cole and Baines as you couldn't ask for better mentors.

But, and I'll go against every grain in my coaching body here. I'm not sure he can add that aspect to his game. He looks like a traditional full back and solid defender. So I'll agree with you twice, I also can see him developing into a very effective left sided centre back in a 3. Just not 3-4-3 please. That scares the hell out me!!

Rob - strong team, get it won and let's go into this nuisance of a World Cup one step closer to Wembley and 3 more points in the bag. That's a personal opinion by the way. I don't dislike watching international football, it just gets in the way of Everton.

Marching. WSNBM

Brian Harrison
320 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:53:57
I said that, like all Evertonians, I want Frank to succeed as he always talks about how special this club and the fans are, and we haven't had too many praise the fans the way he has.

I think back to his first 2 games in charge,beating Brentford 4-1 in the FA Cup followed by a 3-0 beating of Leeds in the League, and I remember saying at last we have a manager who has us playing front-foot football.

But whether circumstances or whatever has changed, we are a million miles from what we produced in those first 2 games. Now I know teams always seem to put in another 5% more to try and impress a new manager but the change from that style to how we play now I find worrying.

I watched most of the games on MotD over the weekend and without fail virtually every club whether home or away had 4 or 5 players in the opponent's box in open play at times were the only time we have that many in the opponent's box is at corners.

I will go back to what I said in my earlier post, we may have got 2 more aggressive centre-backs than we had last season, but neither possess any more pace than Holgate or Keane, and both Tarkowski and Coady like to drop deep.

Also, I think Keane especially is more of a threat in the opponent's box than either Coady or Tarkowski. I saw a stat that has him the 6th top scorer in this squad. Also, apparently teams average more shots against us than anyone else. Our leading striker has 3 goals after 14 games.

Let's also not forget that Frank and Thelwell signed 7 players in the summer but, despite, that we haven't changed our style from last season, which for me is the most disappointing.

I don't know if many noticed but on Saturday the crowd started to get a bit agitated over this constant passing between the back 4 that after 7 or 8 passes we were still camped just outside our box and Tarkowski turned to Gwladys Street and made a 'calm down' gesture.

Steve Brown
321 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:55:06
We played 4-2-3-1 against Palace, and both Onana and Gana looked comfortable. Against Leicester, we seemed to start with some weird 4-1-2-3 system.

Probably the aim was to use Iwobi and Onana to press their 2 CDMs high, but Onana in particular looked like he was briefed on the system 2 minutes before kick-off. This is not the most talented squad in the world so, if I was Lampard, I would simplify and stick to the same gameplan with small tweaks.

As for the defence sitting deep, that is not necessarily a problem. A number of top managers use it, provided they have good counter-attacking forwards. It also helps to have at least one full-back who can push forward, which explains why we have missed Patterson so much. Mykolenko doesn't offer much going forward and Seamus can't get up and down as much as he used to.

Sam Hoare
322 Posted 07/11/2022 at 09:59:56
I agree with Dave Cashen @318, the idea that our defense is sorted is simply not borne out by either the eye or the stats.

Whilst it's true we have been conceeding less goals, we have been giving away a huge amount of shots and chances and owe a lot to Pickford's great goalkeeping and opponents' wayward finishing. Both are unlikely to continue.

We are giving up loads of opportunities whilst playing a relatively deep line. The worst of both worlds. For me, I'd be looking to bring in one of Holgate, Mina or Godfrey for Coady who I think has been inferior to Tarkowski. Playing a slightly higher line would help close the gaping gaps in midfield and get us further up the pitch.

Laurie Hartley
323 Posted 07/11/2022 at 10:05:41
Tony#306 - I supposed it was a bit sarcastic😉 but surely he won’t play Maupay as a lone striker these next two games.

Lee Robinson
324 Posted 07/11/2022 at 10:16:24
Unfortunately in comparison with the other sides in a strong league this year, this is how I see us:-

Goalkeeper - top 4

Defence - top 6

Midfield - Mid table

Attacking - Bottom 3

We haven't scored in 2 games again now.If we don't take the few chances we create it's game over. Bournemouth look more threatening going forward which is a worry.

Danny O’Neill
325 Posted 07/11/2022 at 10:25:43
Through fear of getting called out for posting too much, I felt compelled to reply Dave as I enjoy the discussion.

I kind of feel like we're agreeing whilst also disagreeing. Standard I guess.

The Seamus topic, absolutely.

The defence, sort of both. I'm not saying it's suddenly the final answer, but it's more resilient and improved. That seems to be the first area the management team have focussed on with limited resources and still having to shift people off the books.

But to your point, law of averages dictate, that if you don't have an attacking threat and get higher up the pitch, which has been my war cry for several seasons by the way, you will concede no matter how good you are defensively. I could barely watch at times under Moyes' keep it tight and nick one posture. Although there were times and teams where they showed flowing attacking football. It took time though. I just rarely went into games confidently. I think we're in a similar position now.

Yes we need to be higher up the pitch. Yes we need to have more attacking options. And yes, Brian is much more studious and interesting than me.

I get all that. I'm saying that the defence is improved and once Patterson is back, hopefully it will be more improved. Certainly from last season. And we still have Holgate and Godfrey to come back.

Michael Keane I think is out of the picture. For me, that's a good thing as he worries me most times he plays. Forever grateful for that goal. Despite my criticisms over the years, he is an honest player who gives everything when he plays. But with Coady, Tarkowski, Godfrey, Holgate and even Mykolenko, he's way down the pecking order in my view.

I've been a Keane basher over the years but also praised him when he's played well. There's only one player I've ever spontaneously said in frustration that I'd be glad if I never saw him in an Everton shirt. It wasn't Michael Keane and that player actually contributed quite a lot to our run in last season. So humble pie for me and thankful to him. A shame that he put Mina to shame in terms of occupying the treatment room.

Mike Doyle
326 Posted 07/11/2022 at 11:03:12
Tend to agree with Sam #322,

Our current defence looks more comfortable than last season – certainly when defending set pieces – but they always appear to sit deep leaving us stretched when we do attack.

If we had ball-retaining and ball-playing midfielders (like Leicester had) this might not be an issue, but we don't – so it is.

Easy to criticise Calvert-Lewin and Maupay, but the quality of service being provided leaves much to be desired.

Rob Dolby
327 Posted 07/11/2022 at 11:37:30
On the defence argument.

We may concede lots of shots and defensive blocks but do people attribute the misses to poor attacking or good defending? Leicester could have had 22 goals if all of their shots went in and we could have had 8... when was the last time you witnessed a 22-8 game of footy?

Surely it's good defending, we would concede goals that would ricochet between 3 players last year in nearly every game. That isn't happening this year.

Set-piece defending is better, surely people can see that. Why the calls for Holdgate or Godfrey? They were a part of the problem last year.

The biggest myth of the lot is the fast centre-backs to push the team up the pitch. That tactic starts with the forwards and midfielders, it doesn't start with centre-backs. We just haven't got the squad nevermind the centre-backs to do it.

Danny and David, name me 2 centre-backs that can push our current team into the opposing half on a regular basis.

The Leicester midfielders' movement from pretty slow players put us on the backfoot, it wasn't their 2 centre-backs. Same against Fulham the week before and against Man Utd a couple of weeks before that.

To play further up the pitch with our current squad, we need to play more directly, cut out the triangles at the back and play more percentage stuff. If Calvert-Lewin is out for the next 2 games, I would play Rondon and go more direct.

You can see both Coady and Tarkowski ushering players up the pitch when the ball is in the other half. Both can spray the ball around as proven at other clubs. We need to start using those cross-field passes to the wingers 30 yards from goal – not a side foot pass to them 60 yards from our goal.

Danny O’Neill
328 Posted 07/11/2022 at 12:15:35
Come on Rob, we don't argue on here. We debate, discuss, agree and disagree. The virtual pub as some refer to it as!!

It's more about moving as a unit up and down the pitch and not having gaps between the lines to coin a phrase.

If our defence sits deep, the midfield will too. Strikers get isolated. With what we have available now, I agree with the sentiment of going more direct. Although we'd need to bring Gordon and Gray more central. In fact that's where 2 of Gordon's goals have come from.

Whatever business we do in January, I don't think it will be on defenders. But as you put me on the spot, I was hopeful when Ancelotti was here that Koulibaly would be a possibility. Very aggressive and a ball player. At 31, still an okay age for a centre-back. And I don't think he's playing much for Chelsea, although could be injured.

But as Brian's stats suggest, the focus will be elsewhere given the list of centre-backs we already have on the books. So it's down to getting the tactics right.

Over to the manager and his staff.

Christy Ring
329 Posted 07/11/2022 at 13:28:28
I agree with Rob, the centre-backs are not the problem' Against Leicester, our midfield was completely on the back foot, too deep and overrun. Everytime Tarkowski brought the ball forward, he had to play it up to Calvert-Lewin, who was isolated.

Onana hardly touched the ball, our wide players just passed the ball backwards, and were no threat whatsoever going forward. Maddison was running the show on the right wing, targeting Mykolenko, and Tielemans driving forward from midfield. The centre-backs weren't the problem.

Rob Dolby
330 Posted 07/11/2022 at 13:39:55
Danny 332.

You're correct, 'debate' is the right word to use; maybe 'argument' is too strong.

Roll on Tuesday when we take on the mighty Bournemouth.


Bobby Mallon
331 Posted 07/11/2022 at 14:12:40
Christy Ring 335:

I see what you wrote, but Iwobi (1st half) and Calvert-Lewin (2nd half) fluffed their lines big style. Those two should have scored their chances.

It was a terrible performance.

Danny O’Neill
332 Posted 07/11/2022 at 14:23:30
Score those chances and it's a different game, Bobby.

It doesn't excuse the performance or hide from the challenges of rebuilding.

I said in the pre-match thread, I watched a Leicester team that went on to be Champions only have 5 chances on target, one a penalty. They converted 3 of them. Compared to our many unconverted ones.

Take your chances. I thought both could have done better.

Kevin Molloy
333 Posted 07/11/2022 at 14:50:03
I had no expectations for this game. Leicester are a good side, with some terrific players. They had started in the bin, but in the last few weeks had found their mojo and going into the game had the bit between their teeth. It's no disgrace not to be able to get the ball off a team like that.

We need to understand our level. I think we've bought some good players this summer, but it doesn't take much to knock us off our stride. In hindsight, it looks like we had Calvert-Lewin, Gana and Onana all carrying injuries going into that game. That's just too much of a hole blown in the side of our little tugboat.

We could also quite easily lose to Bournemouth. But it's going to be like this all season, the Premier League has never been more competitive. Makes for great football and exciting games. West Ham fans are pulling their hair out at the moment, they looked superb last season, and have just spent £100 million.

Tony Abrahams
334 Posted 07/11/2022 at 14:58:58
Leicester have been footballing us to death at Goodison for a few seasons now, although I can't remember the game when Ancellotti was in charge, they outplayed us for 70 minutes when Ferguson was our caretaker manager, and we were also very lucky to get a point off them, towards the end of last season.

Gueye was very poor with his distribution again on Saturday, but I thought he was still our best player whilst he was on the pitch, simply because he was the only Everton player, who was playing with real aggression.

We all see a different game but when a team like Leicester have got the bit between their teeth, the first thing you've got to try and do is disrupt their play, but Everton lacked aggression on Saturday night, and this made it so much easier for our opponents imo.

Darren Hind
335 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:00:34

The centre-backs are most definitely responsible for pushing the team up the pitch. A team only plays as high as their last defender. As Danny has explained, a team has to move up and down as a cohesive unit.

You can't simply have the midfield and forwards running away from them.

Darren Hind
336 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:02:31
Did you not learn anything when Carlo and Rafa sat deep?

When oh when will we get a manager who wants to play in the other team's half?

Mike Gaynes
337 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:10:01
When a player averages two goals a year in an 8-year career, the words "should have scored" simply don't apply. Iwobi is not a finisher, never has been.

As to whether the defense has been sorted, it's all a matter of interpretation. The opponents are getting lots of shots, but we lead the Premier League in blocks. Tarkowski alone has 35, more than double the runnerup (Mee at 15) and Mykolenko is the top shot-blocker of any left-back in the Premier League.

Does that show that our defense is committed and well-positioned, or does it indicate they're failing to prevent opponents from getting into shooting positions?

Brian Harrison
338 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:22:16
Mike @344,

Iwobi has never been a regular goal scorer and, although probably one of our best players over the last 6 months, therein lies the problem with this group of players.

Iwobi is part of the front 4 forward players of which Gray's record for goal scoring is similar to Iwobi's and McNeil's is slightly worse and Maupay is not a regular goal scorer.

So it's not rocket science why our Goals For tally is one of the worst in the league. Even Calvert-Lewin isn't what you would call prolific, I have left out Gordon as he is our top goalscorer this season with 3 goals, but he is still a young boy learning his trade.

We bought 7 or 8 new players yet never replaced our best outfield player and main goalscorer from last season. And we weren't great scoring goals last season so it should be no surprise to anybody that this team struggles to score goals.

We haven't changed our style much from last season and didn't sign a goalscorer, so why expect anything different from what we saw last season which was a side that struggles for goals?

Sam Hoare
339 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:28:23
Rob @328, certainly we are better on set pieces but I think it is not wise to dismiss the amount of shots we are conceding.

We have conceded 20+ shots in two consecutive games for the first time in years. And against the likes of Fulham and Leicester. That's not ideal.

It's not all on the centre-backs of course but the idea that the defense is sorted is very premature to me. We've been fortunate to not concede a bunch more.

Danny O’Neill
340 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:29:54
Darren, you're back.

And we agree!!

Paul Hewitt
341 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:41:53
Mike @344.

I don't care how many goals Iwobi has scored, that was a chance he should not be missing. Score that and I think we go on and win the game.

It's small margins like that, that make the difference.

Bill Gall
342 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:49:17
Paul #349,

The difference in quality can be seen in the goal that Kane scored against Liverpool, and he had less of the goal to see as the keeper was not guarding the post as was Leicester's.

Paul Tran
343 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:52:14
We're a classic mid-table team. Average most weeks, good some weeks, poor other weeks.

In the last few years, there has been one thing in common – where are the goals coming from? The 'genius' Brands and the managers have had an allergic reaction to buying players who know where the goal is, never mind scoring one.

This means we have to take our chances, relying on players who don't or can't always finish. That's the first thing that needs rectifying. Over to you, Mr Thelwell...

We also need to start playing the game in the other team's half. Then we might actually create more chances, rather than talk about the one or two we missed. The shots stats are frankly scandalous. That's down to Frank and the players.

An even more tight, mediocre league this season. You've only got a puncher's chance when you throw some. About time we started.

Mike Gaynes
344 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:55:57
Darren #343, when we have central defenders who don't give the ball away when pushing up and are fast enough to get back and cover the counterattacks. We currently do not have anybody meeting that description. Zouma was the last one we had with real pace. Tarkowski's suicide pass on Saturday, followed by a cart-horse gallop to try to get back, was a perfect example of the downside of pushing up with the wrong players.

Brian #345, absolutely true, but in their first window since joining the club, Thelwell and Lampard chose to devote their time and financial resources to improving the backline and midfield ahead of the attack, and I cannot argue with those priorities, especially since most of the goalscorers we were linked with seemed to me to be overpriced underachievers. I believe Kevin and Frank will spend in January trying to bring in goals. If they fail then, we are in deep shit.

Paul #349, no argument, but when a player has rarely shown a particular quality, it's sorta unrealistic to expect him to suddenly produce it on demand.

Paul Hewitt
345 Posted 07/11/2022 at 15:59:58
Nill @350.

That's no excuse, he's supposed to be a professional footballer. You simply can not miss chances like that.

Rob Halligan
346 Posted 07/11/2022 at 16:13:51
I have to agree with Paul #349. No professional footballer should be missing the kind of chance Iwobi missed on Saturday, no matter what position he plays in.

We only have to think back to last season, and two goals in particular, scored by defenders. Mykolenko at Leicester, and Michael Keane in that Palace game. Two goals that any forward would have been proud of, let alone a defender.

You only have to watch the club videos during training sessions, which show all players, defenders, midfielders and forwards all taking pot shots on goal, to see they are training to put shots away. Iwobi had all the time in the world to put that ball away on Saturday, and again as Paul says, we probably go on and win the game.

Mike Doyle
348 Posted 07/11/2022 at 16:31:12
Picking up on Rob's point at #354, there have been plenty of posts since the start of the season from those ITK that, within the environs of Finch Farm, Keane is regarded as one of the better finishers at the club.

As it appears Calvert-Lewin is out until after the World Cup (no bad thing as he doesn't look fit anyway), perhaps we could do worse than give him a go up front? Hard to believe he could be any slower than Rondon or less effective than Maupay. At least he would increase the threat from corners.

Frank Crewe
349 Posted 07/11/2022 at 16:49:14
Paul Tran @351,

"We're a classic mid-table team." I wish. We were a classic mid-table team. We have turned into Newcastle before the Saudis took over. We have become a classic drop-dodging team. Constantly fighting to scrape together enough points to stay up so we can do it all again the next season.

We have made no visible progress on the playing side since Moyes left for pastures new. What's worse is we have gone through a platoon of managers, numerous new players and half a billion quid to turn us into the football powerhouse we are today.

This season alone. Two new centre-backs. Two new midfielders. Two new forwards and we're 16th. Two points off the Bottom 3.

Yet we are supposed to have a new forward-thinking manager who has brought in a team of winning coaches who will bring the best out in our squad.

Well, he had better start showing some genuine progress soon or Frank Lampard could find himself going the way of Stevie G at Villa. Another head on Everton's Wall of Shame.

Mike Gaynes
351 Posted 07/11/2022 at 16:49:58
Rob, every professional footballer is capable of occasionally scoring a cracking goal, like the two you mentioned, and like Iwobi's curler against Man Utd. By all means celebrate them when they happen.

But anyone expecting finishing like that from players like that is in for a lifetime of disappointment.

We look at those goals and wonder why they can't do it every time, but the fact is, they can't. They may have the talent, but they don't have the ability. An occasional great goal doesn't make you a goalscorer.

Our man Tommy Fleetwood shot 63 at the US Open, finished second at the British Open, went 4-0 at the Ryder Cup. Then he lost his PGA Tour card and got blanked at the Ryder, because he is not, after all, one of the world's best.

And Iwobi missed because he is not, after all, a goalscorer.

Brian Hennessy
352 Posted 07/11/2022 at 17:01:22
Apologies if this has been covered already, but can anyone who was at the game tell me where all the fireworks and bangers were being set off? Was it our fans, Leicester fans or both? Was it all inside the stadium or outside?

Only a small thing but it was annoying from watching on TV and seemed to affect the atmosphere.

Dale Self
353 Posted 07/11/2022 at 17:14:05
I got rather cross-eyed when I saw that Maupay was not selected with Calvert-Lewin and Iwobi was on the right in what looked like a 4-1-4-1. Because of this, I pouted and gave up the analysis and thought 'Okay, Frank we're riding your way'.

I was thinking we should have been down but then, with our two chances, I felt that maybe the game might turn Frank's way. Then the old squad jitters returned just before half-time, gifting the shot that locked us into a chase where Brenda was always two steps ahead.

I won't bag too much on the goal other than to say that Seamus occupied the space the ball went through as the ball was kicked. He was so concerned about getting burned that he overreacted and left the angle that got the ball in behind.

I agree with the two criticisms above on Frank not making his mind up with the formation and the like-for-like substitutions were impotence of thought. Frank wants to select two wingers and stretch the defence but he has several problems with that approach:

Gray has possession skills but cannot take the physical cost of not being able to see the play to make the pass and avoid contact. Probably the only player who can create their own space for a decent cross but really needs a script.

Gordon is too direct and is very hot and cold which then affects his defensive positioning. He can create space and provides intensity that is much needed but needs a midfielder to keep him in line; that's not Iwobi.

Calvert-Lewin can find a nice angle pass on the hold-up but getting that setup is difficult when he is the only player forward around the D. Supply is a problem and, without a run through, he struggles to create on his own.

So bottom line: I don't get it. Maupay may be a weasel but he is the only other player who complements Calvert-Lewin and could give Iwobi help in distribution. Why doesn't Frank use him? Trains bad, doesn't get along with Calvert-Lewin? I'll take any rumours at this point, I simply don't get it.

Oh yeah, and having Iwobi defend on the perimeter is not good, not good at all. He needs to be inside or on the weak side to apply pressure; otherwise, he just chases and leaves space.

Rob Halligan
354 Posted 07/11/2022 at 17:15:07
Thing is though, Mike, that wouldn't have been a cracking goal by Iwobi, it was a “pass” into the far corner of the net, and having just watched it several more times, I still find it hard to understand how he missed?

A better option might have been a pass along the 6-yard line where Gueye was coming in and who would have had a tap in, bit like Anthony Gordon against Palace. Hindsight is a great word though!!

Ian Edwards
355 Posted 07/11/2022 at 18:39:25
Lee Robinson 324.

Our midfield is the worst in the league by some distance. It is totally dysfunctional. It does not protect the defence. It does not create sufficient chances for forwards. It doesn't score.

If Lampard doesn't change it, we will be relegated or he will be sacked.

Mark Murphy
356 Posted 07/11/2022 at 18:44:41
Rob, Gueye would’ve missed. You know it!
Eddie Dunn
357 Posted 07/11/2022 at 19:06:09
I am an old man but still playing 6 -a -side and I'm 62. I don't normally play with standard size goals but was practicing on the astro recently with the full size goals. It's good to remind yourself how good Pickford is and how big an area Iwobi had to aim at – they are flippin huge.
Tony Abrahams
358 Posted 07/11/2022 at 19:14:27
It's not often I'm in agreement with you Ian E, but I agree with that 100% mate. It's not as if any of our midfielders are bad players either, imo, but it's definitely not a unit, and they rarely look to all be on the same page.
Dave Abrahams
359 Posted 07/11/2022 at 19:22:36

After watching that miss by Iwobi I was thinking of the measurements of the goalposts, crossbar and the area of the goal: 8 foot for each of the posts and 24 foot for the crossbar, so the area is 192 square feet to aim at, sounds hard not to hit the target at least, doesn't it!!

Mike Gaynes
360 Posted 07/11/2022 at 19:34:28
Rob, I didn't even see Gana coming in there myself. Didn't keep the game on the DVR so I can't go back and see it again. But Mark's right, I wouldn't have much faith in Gana even with an open net!
Bernie Quinn
361 Posted 07/11/2022 at 20:13:48
I have to say I am really fed up with all the moaners on here, and with people quoting statistics.

Did you know that I am 84 and have a better chance of living forever, than all you younger people – and if I can get to 100, I will probably never die? Very much a case of 'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics! They can be twisted any which way!

The same with our results. If we win a game, then we could end up in the Top 6; lose a game and we will be definitely relegated… Give the whinging a rest – and support the team and Frank.

Be like Danny and be positive about each game as it comes. If we lose, shrug shoulders and hope for better next time. For God's sake, give Frank a chance – remember he has only had one transfer window - and hardly any cash to play with. What can you expect him to do – perform miracles?

Danny; a while back I said that perhaps you are being a tad too cheerful – I was wrong. It's good to read your positive comments, mate, keep 'em coming. Just wish there were more positive supporters on TW.

Has anyone heard from John Mc, Senior?

Christy Ring
362 Posted 07/11/2022 at 20:33:11
I don't think we've the worst midfield by a distance. The formation is the problem in my opinion.

Ian, I know you believe Gueye is a waste of space, but I disagree. He's trying to do too much. Against Leicester and in previous games he's totally involved, he wins possession and instead of giving the ball, he tries to move forward and ends up losing possession.

His game is break up play, and protect the back four, and let Onana (who was carrying an injury) and Iwobi play more forward. It didn't seem that was the formation against Leicester.

Jeff Armstrong
363 Posted 07/11/2022 at 20:52:39
Brian, 359, the fireworks where from out side the ground.
Danny O’Neill
364 Posted 07/11/2022 at 20:53:15
Bernie. You are going nowhere until you come to Europe with us in spirit. You'll be there with us.
Brian Hennessy
365 Posted 07/11/2022 at 20:57:44
Many thanks, Jeff.
Peter Mills
366 Posted 07/11/2022 at 21:15:19
One of our players picked up a stick off the pitch, I assume it was from a firework rocket from outside the stadium, and handed it to one of the Everton staff.

For some reason, the referee decided it was necessary to discuss the matter with the local constabulary. I am awaiting news that we are to be fined for failing to prevent missiles entering the field of play.

Brian Murray
367 Posted 08/11/2022 at 06:01:03
Well, when both goals went in, them other shower let off fireworks outside Goodison, so let's blame the perennial victims for a change.
Tony Abrahams
368 Posted 08/11/2022 at 06:35:11
I heard the VAR looked at 79 different angles to see if that firework was fired from inside the ground, Peter!

On a much more serious note, I was coming from outside the stadium at the end of the game, and seeing a vacant Delta taxi parked up right in the middle of Gwladys Street. Not a steward or a policeman in sight, it's just a good job it was nothing sinister, because it would have been catastrophic, and I couldn't believe the lack of security outside the stadium of a major sporting event.

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