Why can’t Frank and Co see what we see?

by   |   15/01/2023  90 Comments  [Jump to last]

For most of this season, many posters on ToffeeWeb have been asking ourselves what the hell Frank Lampard has been doing! Either in his formation, team selection, tactics or substitutions to name a few. 

We all watch the game from inside the ground or on TV and get an excellent view of how we manage to lose games that we should be winning. What do Joe Edwards, Paul Clement and Ashley Cole whisper in Frank’s ear on the touch line?

We have a considerable number of writers and readers who are very knowledgeable football watchers and analysts. So just for fun in these dark days, I challenge you to point out something that you have noticed in games (please be specific) that Frank and his brain’s trust have missed.

I’ll go first and call out what I think was blindingly obvious before the match started against Southampton.

Article continues below video content

You do not have to be an advanced A-list football coach to know where the threat is coming from: Ward-Prowse. So my strategy would be to make sure Ward-Prowse does not beat us.

Before the game started, I would have put a man on him and told the player to follow him all over the pitch for 95 minutes. Good old-fashioned man-marking. Looking at who could do this job, the only name that springs to mind is Tom Davies.

"Oh no!" I hear you groan! But we are not asking Davies to pass or make runs – just make sure he is within 2 metres of him for the whole game. I think Tom has the ability and football intelligence to do this. 

If that is too much of a stretch, then Onana, Gana or Iwobi had to be told that one of them must cover him once he gets near our goal. Right on half-time, we got away with it when he hit the post and Pickford cleared it.

So at half-time, surely the talk must have been asking who is going to track his runs? Sadly we had no one. Onana was tackling back and bursting forward, Iwobi was too far up the field and… well, I’m not sure what Gana was doing.

I have noticed in the last 5 matches, Gana has failed to work back. Take a look at the Wolves game. So what happens? Within 50 seconds of the restart, Ward-Prowse runs through the midfield unmarked and scores from inside the area.

Then Gordon gives away a soft free kick on the edge of the area. We can’t set up a decent block. No-one is guarding the post, Pickford does not move, and the ball hits the back of net half-way up. Not even in the top corner.

So I invite others to point out things that we can see but Frank and Co cannot.

Just a thought, do we see it because we are watching from a higher position and not on the touchline? American football and Rugby have coaches watching patterns of play from the stands. Why not Everton?

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Reader Comments (90)

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Andy Crooks
1 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:01:10
Most coaches have blind spots. It took Moyes some time ago realise that Leighton Baines was the best left-back at the club. However, Frank has so many that it makes choosing difficult.

How about having players passing the ball round the back like a loaded hand grenade none of them looking remotely comfortable. Then back to Pickford who boots it to the opposition.

His delay in substitutions and the utter like of tactical thought when he does make them. His persistence with formations that are unsuited to his squad. God almighty, it could go on forever.

Danny O’Neill
2 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:14:04
Good point Andy. I remember that we played Lescott a lot at left back before there was faith in Baines. The substitutions is another one. I used to get frustrated with waiting until the 65th minute. Now we seem to wait until the 82nd.

To David's article, the man-marking bit interested me as it is something I experienced playing in Germany. It can be effective, but conversely it takes one of your players out of the game, leaving spaces. I seem to recall a game against City many seasons ago when Rodwell done a sterling job but it only worked to a point. I can't recall the exacts without looking back through the archives.

I always think it's better to focus on your own game rather than the opposition.

Barry Hesketh
3 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:19:54
Andy @1,

I didn't notice much of the infuriating passing about at the back routine on Saturday, but our issues lay squarely on both full-backs.

Coleman tries his best but without the pace he used to have, he isn't quite as effective as he once was, and he's never been really good at stopping the cross even at his peak. On the other flank, the Ukranian started off okay but has become less and less effective over the season and probably needs a spell out of the first team.

Confidence is a major factor in sport and our players just don't have that belief in themselves or their team-mates, they try hard, but they don't have the collective capablity of holding onto leads when they get them.

It's annoying that even two draws from the games with Wolves and Saints would have seen us a couple of points clear of the relegation places and a different view of our future, but those two defeats may prove to be the difference between Everton surviving or not in the top division.

Raymond Fox
4 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:24:55
Problem is you see players in all sports making schoolboy errors time and time again.

Take Southampton's winning goal, Gordon gives away an unnecessary free-kick in a dangerous position knowing what Ward-Prowse can do.

Then our experienced England keeper, again, knowing what Ward-Prowse is capable of, who should be organising the wall and his goal line gives said player a barn door to aim at.

You couldn't make it up, if you didn't know better you would think they wanted him to score.

Will Mabon
5 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:31:35
A big one for me for a long time has been the fitness levels.

Just about every game we play, the opposition looks fitter, sharper, busier and just more energetic in general. They also don't tire to the same extent we do around the 70-minute mark.

To add to the confusion, we have the very occasional game where we do look up to speed. I think it's both physical and mental. How or why this should be at a Premier League club I have no idea.

Darren Hind
6 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:35:00
Gordon is being widely criticised for his challenge. I'm not having it.

Footage will demonstrate he ran back 90+ yards to help a defence which had enough opportunities to clear the danger.

Yes it was a naive challenge by a 21 year old forward. but it was also an exhausted one. He couldnt win the ball, thats why it was a naive challenge...but would have been slaughtered if he hadnt made it.

Pickford and Mykolenko must have bee the only two people inside Goodison who didnt know where that free kick was going.

Coady and Tarkowski committed a far greater crime for the first one - They didnt even make the challenge - but I havent seen anybody call them out !

Why do experienced players get away with fucking murder whenever we lose ? Yet the youngster are always called out ?

BTW David ; Thanks for bringing the chat back round to football. The off field stuff was starting to relieve me of my will to live,

Barry Rathbone
7 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:36:33
The trouble with this sort of sofa coaching is the assumption blackboard ideas work in the heat of battle. For example would Davies (or whoever) successfully mark Percy Prowse out of the game? Probably not.

More to the point are ANY of our players up to specific tasks of any sort? Again, probably not.

Since Moyes arrived all but one manager has played a safety in numbers game because we employ various grades of journeymen incapable of much else. The ludicrous canard Moyes is he built a solid defence when in fact he built an 11 man defensive unit that leaked like a sieve whenever the back line was got at.

When we sign good players like Rom, Barry, McCarthy and Delboy it's a game changer when we don't or can't afford to as in the Martinez era we turn to poop.

We're back into shining a turd territory here.

Rob Halligan
8 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:37:03
Goalkeepers seem to be coming in for some serious flak these past few days.

Kepa, the Chelsea goalkeeper caught in no man's land for Fulham's winner last Thursday. Lloris for his, well, whatever he was trying to do yesterday for Arsenal's first goal. The bearded one at Anfield, for some reason gifting Wolves their first goal in the cup game. Finally Pickford for the second goal on Saturday.

Seriously, when I played in goal, I think even I would have saved that Ward-Prowse free kick. It wasn't a spectacular free kick, just Pickfords poor positioning.

I forgot to add De Gea in our cup game, letting the ball ping pong between his feet before letting the ball go through his legs for Coady to slam home from 6 inches.

Will Mabon
9 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:51:10
Rob, he was also stood in the position for a long time, way over left, didn't move around to adjust/look at the line of the kick. Obviously no player questioned him.

Some keepers try to "steer" the striker towards a side but at least they take a chance and then move in that direction. Pickford froze still. I rate him highly but that was really odd.

Paul Birmingham
10 Posted 16/01/2023 at 18:54:27
Play as a Team, and each player to stick to their job..

When confidence and self believe is low, it is easier for the opposition to work on, exploiting a lack of confidence in any football team.

But show focus and attention and each player to d their job, and to communicate on the pitch. I reckon, quite a few recent goals conceded have been avoidable, some individual errors, and many team errors.

Onana is now starting to play, with belief and confidence, hopefully, he can stay injury free, for the next few months, and keep his playing level on the up.

Over to Frank and his coaches to get this Everton squad ready to give their all on the Park in Stratford this Saturday.

A result is a start, to building confidence, healing the wounds of a tough week, for Evertonians, and then for facing what comes next at Everton, there's half a season to play for.


Barry Hesketh
11 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:03:51
David Moyes is about to be sacked and replaced by Rafa Benitez at West Ham.

That's according to the money that just keeps coming in tonight for both.

We've [Betfair] suspended betting on both ‘next Premier League boss to leave' and ‘next West Ham manager'.

Hmmmm, we wouldn't… would we?

Tony Abrahams
12 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:08:25
My mate sits by the dugout, and he phoned me on Saturday night saying he felt physically sick. I never helped him because I said that, as long as Everton are sold, I can live with relegation, but this is something that is already giving him sleepless nights.

Anyway, David, he told me that, when Anthony Gordon was getting ready to come on, Ashley Cole was repeatedly telling him about not giving away any stupid free kicks because of Ward-Prowse?

I never heard it myself but maybe this was playing on Gordon's mind after the game when he refused to stop and talk to those very aggressive kids?

David Cooper
13 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:16:00
I don't think very few players start a competitive game with a mindset of “I'm not going to try today”. I think our effort level in recent matches has been acceptable which really should be the minimum expectation of a professional footballer.

Will #5 asks if our fitness levels are as good as other clubs as we look to run out of steam at 70 minutes. I have noticed how often other managers have used all 5 subs with 2 or 3 coming on around the 70-minute mark. Not necessarily for any tactical reason, but because the manager wants “fresh legs” to keep a high tempo in the final part of the game.

Sadly I can't remember Frank ever doing that. His subs always seem to be tactical. We lost against Wolves and Southampton after the 70-minute mark. A draw in each game would have lifted us into 15th or 16th position. We might not have liked that result at the time but we would feel better than we do now.

Why does Frank not bring on Mina for the last 15 minutes, sub Seamus and move Godfrey to right back? We might even have sneaked a winning goal from Mina at a corner.

Frank's reluctance to make the best use of those on the bench only compounds their lack of confidence because he does not think they are good enough.

Tony Abrahams
14 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:16:25
I heard West Ham spoke to Benitez a couple of weeks ago, Barry. Imagine him going to West Ham and keeping them up, and Moyes came to Everton, and took us down?

Being serious now, I don't think Everton could get anyone better than David Moyes whilst in their current predicament. Unbelievable!

Darren Hind
15 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:18:15

And Coady, Tarkowski, Gana, Pickford and Mykolenko?

Some of those kids were Gordon's peers. He would have been fucking nuts to get out of his car to engage with them.

Barry Hesketh
16 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:21:35
If you look at the free-kick on the Everton official site, you can see Mykolenko back-peddling furiuosly, but too late to cover Pickford's right-hand post, it does seem that, between the Goalkeeper and the Ukranian, they royally screwed up.

Dennis Stevens
17 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:34:54
We are the team in BLUE!
Tony Abrahams
18 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:45:11
I’m just saying what my mate said, in response to the original things David wrote Darren, although my mate has also been known to put a drink on many of his stories!

Pickford was ridiculously at fault for the goal. Coady is deeper than the ocean, (might as well play Michael Keane, and I’m not a fan of Keane) and I think this is also not allowing Tarkowski to go and play on the front foot? Either way I don’t believe they are complimenting each other?

Mykolenko looks lost, and playing wingback seems to have drained him even more, and Gana, is possibly getting pulled everywhere, because he’s playing for a very undisciplined team, imo? I look forward to your own thoughts on this one Darren.

I was hoping Iwobi didn’t play, he now has his fans, but he more often flatters to deceive imo, although when Coleman went off, I thought Iwobi, might have been the better choice to go and play out wide, and I’d have personally played Anthony Gordon, inside?

Demari Gray, never had a good game, but he ended up getting put out wide, possibly to try to stopWalker-Peters, from going forward, but nullifying one of our only threats?

I thought Saturday, was reminiscent of the Villa game,when Duncan Ferguson managed us last season, in many ways, and sadly now believe it’s time that Frank Lampard is unfortunately asked to leave Everton Football Club.

A lot of sense has been spoken in post13, imo David.

Will Mabon
19 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:50:40
Barry, I watched that back too.

He waits until Ward-Prowse starts to run up, which he is trying to see through the wall, before reversing. At this point ,he's a couple of metres behind the wall, and nowhere near the line, doing precisely what, I wonder?

If that was a screw-up, it was a screw-up of a ridiculous tactic, worse than schoolboy stuff. It might explain why Pickford left that gap but I can't believe that was all planned, never a hope in hell that he'd get to the line/post.

Dennis Stevens
27 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:59:39
I didn't realise Clint Eastwood is an Evertonian
Brian Harrison
31 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:04:47
Darren 6

Maybe you are referring to this thread about nobody calling out Coady or Tarkowski, but I actually singled both out in my post 748 on the Saints Marched in Thread on the 15/1. I have been highly critical of both Coady and Tarkowski for quite a while.

I pointed out a while back if they are that good how come Harry Kane had more touches in the league game against us than against any other team. Also Mitrovic had 10 shots against us hardly 2 CBs at the top of their game.

Both are slow and neither ever try and carry the ball forward, when the have the space too. Coady isn't great in the air and Tarkowski looks very uncomfortable with the ball at his feet.

There are problems all over the pitch but these 2 under Lampard seem irreplaceable. I know he is made of glass but Mina is a far better CB than the pair of them.

I agree Gordon did run back to try and retrieve the ball but that challenge was always going to be penalised, and their player had some of our defenders in front of him so Anthony didn't have to make the challenge.

The reason Frank can't see what's wrong is he isn't a very good manager, and the 8 players he has brought in aren't very good either. Was it him or Thelwell who bought some of these players… who knows?

But giving Lampard any more games makes no sense, he has the worst win ratio of any Everton manager so what is he going to change from his previous 12 months, absolutely nothing.

Will Mabon
33 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:06:46
I said "wedlock" but I might've mumbled a bit...
Tony Abrahams
34 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:13:26
The rumours were all about it being out of wedlock!
Will Mabon
35 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:21:46
I... I... well, you know. Sorry.
Danny O’Neill
36 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:23:02
Not me, Rob.

Good call on Mykolenko by the way.

It might just be me but does the simple art of having players on the post seem to have disappeared from the game?

Or am I becoming a footballing dinosaur?

Rob Halligan
37 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:27:30

Putting defenders on goal posts for corners was fine, and I don't know why clubs don't do it anymore, considering the amount of goals you see scored which creep in by the goal posts after a header from a corner. But for a free-kick 25 yards out… Nah!

Gary Johnson
38 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:27:42
Brian @ 31 - I’ve been voicing the same about our CBs for weeks too. Bottom of the league in both shots conceded and XGA. It was only pure luck the early season showed different, with woodwork and Pickford saving their arse. Wolves knew Coady wasn’t a “two” player, wtf do we think different? The 5 is to accommodate him, but only our injured rb is ok as a wing back.

Just nuts Frank can’t see it!!

I know others shout about Coady leadership, but there’s a gobby tit in everyone’s office too…..just because they are the loudest, doesn’t make them the best leaders. Indeed, he could be on people’s backs so much he’s actually preventing them from being paying their own games more freely.

I capitulated to Rob on here the other day and said he should stay out of the two, but I (and he) was wrong. If one of them has to stay in the team, then leave Tarkowski in and in a flat back four. He’s the one who is used to the four, he’s also our player for foreseeable. Whilst I’d love to bring Branthwaite back to play alongside with a left foot, put Mina or Godfrey next to him and leave them there. Don’t change it.

The midfield can survive by telling Gana and Onana to stay PUT as a 2 and drop in to cover fullbacks if they bomb and (more importantly for ours) can’t get back in time. Doucoure can cover them two until Garner gets back to add some silk there too.

Attack just a dogs dinner. We need a monster to cover replace Dom (Antonio ideal but can’t see it). We then need a 10 and a right winger - both of whom can score. Play 4-2-3-1 and stick with it. Then pray.

Will Mabon
39 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:34:30
Mina just looks better and better the less he plays.
Ernie Baywood
40 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:41:40
I thought it was reasonably clear what we planned would happen for the free kick.

Mykolenko starts in the wall but is going to retreat to the goal line just in time so So'ton can't load players in there.

He ended up only getting about half-way there. Pickford clearly wasn't happy and remonstrated with Mykolenko.

They either just got it very wrong with timing on the day, or it hadn't been practiced enough to prove it was viable.

41 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:46:14
Ernie, he wasn't even in the wall he was 2 metres behind it, half-arsedly lost between marking a player and moving back to the goal line, which he had no chance of doing.
Ian Bennett
42 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:51:57
I am baffled how a 5 man international defence, with Onana and Gana in midfield, and an England International goal keeper can ship in so many goals.

I am baffled how we can't see that we have a goal problem, when we struggle to score against lower league opposition in the cups every season.

If you can't defend, and can't defend you're basically screwed. And that's why we've accumulated something like 25 points in the calendar year. Absolute joke.

Ernie Baywood
43 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:54:06
As for tactics, I think Frank has persisted too long with trying to play conventional type football. It shouldn't have taken this long to realise that the players (particularly the full-backs and midfield) simply aren't good enough.

Against Southampton it was more about being direct and it nearly worked. We had a few chances. We were probably a little bit unlucky to lose, if I'm being completely fair and disconnecting myself from my expectations of Everton at home to Southampton.

But that was against the team at the bottom of the league and we still didn't have enough firepower or defensive resilience to get the job done.

So I only see one hope. All-out defence and counter-attack. Keep it tight, hold the draw we start with and hope we can nick a goal. It's done a reasonable job against the 'good' sides in the league. I think it's time to acknowledge that every team we play against can be considered 'good' in relative terms.

The midfield and full-backs offer nothing with the ball at their feet, so don't ask them to do anything but defend and win the ball. That opens us up to new options at full-back too. Holgate and Godfrey will be relatively solid in those positions. Be nasty... against every team, not just the big clubs.

Even with that plan, we could still do with a forward. DCL didn't look up for the fight from where I was watching.

Darren Hind
44 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:55:09

I was talking in relation to the goals we concede. Not not their general play. Nobody has mentioned that first goal, but it came from a long floaty ball which either one of the should have dealt with. It was amateur defending... but nobody has mentioned it.

Clive Rogers
45 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:57:28
Can't he see that Gana and Iwobi never make a tackle. Gana is playing at jogging pace and is finished at this level. A ridiculous signing.

When he moves Onana forward, he moves Iwobi back for defensive duties which is completely pointless as he just runs about and hasn't a clue how to tackle.

Ernie Baywood
46 Posted 16/01/2023 at 20:58:38
By the way, Che Adams showed exactly what we're missing up front.

He didn't get much service either but he put his shift in. He was smart, he was aggressive.

Don't tell me we can't find a player on the level of Che Adams.

Tony Abrahams
47 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:01:07
I thought it was obvious that Ward-Prowse was more of a threat, than a centre forward, playing against three central defenders, especially after watching the first half. So if Ashley Cole, did say anything to Gordon, then he must surely have spoken more in depth, during the half time period, about Southampton’s only real genuine threat?

Adams worked hard against three defenders, and would have been a much better signing than Maupay, but Southampton never budged.

Darren Hind
48 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:07:30
If either of our centre-halves did their job for that first goal, Ward-Prowse wouldn't have got the opportunity.
Tony Abrahams
49 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:16:41
Not either Darren, not when we actually played with three. Adam's battled gamely all day, but he wasn't really the threat imo. Normally you would expect one of your midfielders to go and track the runner, but I agree that this was down to none of our central defenders taking real responsibility.

I thought both teams played a similar system, and although I didn't think Everton deserved to lose, I definitely thought Southampton looked a lot more assured, especially when they had the ball.

Tony Abrahams
50 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:27:44
I have just watched the highlights for the first time and it's obvious Frank Lampard cannot set us up as a team.
Gary Johnson
51 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:29:56
I remember watching Carlo's team play. He started with a basic 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1.

One of the fullbacks went up (normally Digne) and the right back slotted in to make a 3 (normally Seamus).

In the 4-4-2 system, the left midfielder would come inside, effectively giving a 3-5-2, and sometimes one of the 5 would get forward for a 3-4-3. The 3-5-2 gave a platform for protecting against the counter, at least until the 4-4-2 got back into shape.

In 4-2-3-1, Richie would get into the middle to help and the number 10 who can't be named (or even a decent Gomes at that time) would get up and join them too. The fullbacks would cross and the “Number 10” would linger for the clearance.

I see none of this sophistication with Frank “John Major” Lampard and his grey brigade. It's just a squiggly line of 5 with randomness in front of them, or a static 4-3-3 where it fails down one wing, views back, across the back and up the other. To fail again.

I'm an IT guy. Best I ever got to was a player manager of U19s Sunday league 25 years ago. As the poster says - IF I CAN SEE IT……

Oh, and a 5ft target man with wingers? Seriousfuxkingly??

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:46:58
I thought once Rodriguez got injured early in the season, Everton lost their swagger, and Ancellotti, basically decided to go with a very pragmatic system. I thought his best period was when he played four central defenders, right across the back four, and then put five men across the middle of the park?

Maybe he changed this because Richarlison, also wanted to play centre-forward, but him and Dominic never really played well together in a partnership, and we probably finished no higher than the quality of our football warranted?

It was pug ugly, but if he would have kept playing the system that had got him his best results, I honestly believe he might have even got into the top four that season? Instead we reached our highest peak, and slowly began to fall away, and have carried on slowly falling ever since. (Looking back, Doucoure getting injured definitely never helped us either?)

Tony Everan
53 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:53:38
Tony , It wasn’t perfect but it was a tough as nails back four with Holgate right back and Godfrey left back .

They got skinned a few times but had some recovery pace and a good level of nastiness and aggression, both of them . I wouldn’t bet my house on it but a back four of Holgate , Tarkowski ,Coady and Godfrey may perform better as a unit hat what we have been playing with.

Frank’s not showing anything at all that he’s a Premier League standard manager. Another massive concern is that we always come out flat after half time. I think it’s a manager’s responsibility to have the team on top of their game from the first second of the second half. We always come out looking a bit slower and not geared up to push on.

I can’t understand at all why he’s being given so much time. The poor management and long term relegation standard form would have seen him fired by now at any other club in the league. He’s starting to look like a boxer who’s had enough punishment, but his trainer refuses to throw the towel into the ring.

What I really can’t understand is the failure of Moshiri to best protect his investment. I’d like to know who is advising him at the moment, as he is completely illiterate with regards football, as that might tell it’s own story.

Christine Foster
54 Posted 16/01/2023 at 22:17:58
My memory sometimes plays tricks but since the walk away of Ancelotti, the biggest issue contributing to defeats have been the extraordinary level of personal mistakes. In fact even prior to Ancelotti it wasn't good come to think of it..
Of course there were times when teams would scorecraftedgoal against us but all to often misplaced tackles, fouls, poor judgement or errors ontheball would lead to goals against.
That smacks of the wrong players playing in positions they are ill equipped for ( not good enough) or playing a system they are not able to compete in( not good enough) either way its up to the coach to find a system the players he has can compete without the result being goal threatening mistakes, or the formation of players to minimize the errors or cover should they occur. Ancelotti played four central defenders which gave the impression of overkill and 5 across the middle meaning there was always cover for those mistakes. As Tony said, pug ugly but effective.
Without a consistent forward threat, without a quality creative midfielder, without quality in general, the only way is quantity, pack them tight with cover everywhere and hit on set pieces or the break. Until we have more quality it's the only way.
Danny O’Neill
55 Posted 16/01/2023 at 22:27:43
Good point Rob. You know I stick up for Goalkeepers, so I think it was down to poor positioning by Pickford and probably a late reaction from Mykolenko once the trigger was pulled. Although not taking anything away from Ward-Prowse's delivery, it's not like you shouldn't know what's coming.

Weak defending for the first goal; yes.

Our tactics look unclear and the midfield wide open. That's obvious to us all and the manager worryingly looks like a beaten man.

Just fix what we can all see on Saturday.

Neil Copeland
56 Posted 16/01/2023 at 22:35:42
Danny #55, that’s pretty much the way I see it too.

I am hoping that an away game may help the players given the current mess. If they show passion and a want to win they will get full support from us which would do wonders to restore faith.

Then we have a 2 week break before the Arsenal game. Hopefully things will have settled a little by then. Even better if half the board had resigned too.

Trevor Peers
57 Posted 16/01/2023 at 23:38:29
Tony @53

As you said in your last sentence 'the failure of Moshiri to best protect his investment' baffles me too. He's actually destroying his own investment.

His whole stance on blaming our supporters for our demise, then the non -attendance advice because of the fake fear of violence doesn't sound logical… especially if you're trying your utmost to sell the club. Whose telling him to spout this nonsense ? He's risking everything and worryingly for no good reason at all. A big US investor has reportedly pulled the plug on him today.

He should be trying to get things right on the field and appealing to the fan base for our support. Moshiri's actions and words have been utterly childish and out of control. Maybe that happens when your the sole owner and have the power to do exactly as you please, without fear of any criticism from the cretins with in the club.

Jay Harris
58 Posted 17/01/2023 at 00:13:49
IMO we are just far too unbalanced with no partnerships on the pitch compounded by a lack of confidence so nobody wants the ball and nobody shows for the ball so when we get pressed the player on the ball has no one to pass to and ends up making a bad pass, booting it up the pitch or passing it back to the CBS or Pickford.

Added to that the pressure is turning them into 70 minute players instead of 90 minute players.

In this situation you need a star player to take the responsibility combined with some luck. Last season it was Richy but instead of making the most of selling him and using the kitty wisely someone dropped the ball totally and got 2 players that couldnt score in a brothel and wasted what that kitty could have done for the squad.

I think most of us have realised Frank is totally out of his depth but for me this puts a major question mark over Thelwell too.

Lampard and Thelwell had a window to resolve some of these issues and what we brought in has been absolute dross that no other Premiership club wanted.

Peter Carpenter
59 Posted 17/01/2023 at 00:20:36
Some headlines on BBC Sport;

We are very nearly stuffed.

Darren Hind
60 Posted 17/01/2023 at 08:26:20

I know we played with three CH's, but there was only two who that ball should have been meat and drink to. Two in the vicinity. They both failed.

I think Adams IS the danger for Southampton. They don't have the craft or the guile to build up through the midfield. He is their focal point. Take him out of the game and Ward-Prouse and others willing to get forward to pick up the pieces, have nothing to work with.

I cant believe we are still talking about Carlo Ancelotti as if all our problems started AFTER his watch.

I'm not getting into another debate about this free loading piss taker, but the facts and the records prove beyond argument that the the free-fall we are in now. Started on his watch.

He was getting results when the old Rolls Royce he purchased was purring, but when it needed to go into the garage or wouldnt start on a cold morning. He was forced to try to operate with the Ford Focus's - Allan and The Duke for example.

Anybody who cares to look at our results in the second half of that season will see he left us in very definite relegation form. We simply havent recovered. This is, for me, is where Moshiri has a point about the fans getting their wish.

When he brought Michelangelo to paint the bathroom ceiling, the happy clapping was absolutely deafening, How fucking lucky we were !!!... Unfortunately Michelangelo took one look at the mold and fucked off without really making a start..... Leaving us considerably poorer of course.

Carlo's told us he was not a magician, but all it took was for somebody to dangle a familiar silver spoon and he did the most subtle disappearing act in history.

I simply do not get the loyalty He showed none..

The here and now is difficult enough to deal with.

Robert Tressell
61 Posted 17/01/2023 at 08:39:28
Darren, our problems started in about 1987. Ancelotti was a brief experiment in giving a star manager some rubbish players and seeing what he could conjure up. In his own words, he's not a magician.

The top teams have the quality of Pickford, Baines, Coleman, Jagielka, Stones, Barry, McCarthy, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Kanchelskis and Lukaku on their books every season - and plenty better besides. We can only scrabble together a team that good from 30 years of players.

Eddie Dunn
62 Posted 17/01/2023 at 08:59:13
Looking at recent games various players have been culpable for silly mistakes. There was Coady getting himself in the wrong position, facing his goal as that cross came in and he reacted by pumping it past Pickford.

Gray and Iwobi regularly give away the ball when on their mazy runs. Gordon gave the ball away a few times and that is why he was so keen to make that tackle.

Gana is playing poor passes to the opposition, setting them up when we are on the attack. Then there is Mykolenko, regularly getting caught upfield, and Godfrey sliding on his arse instead of staying on his feet for Ward-Prowse's opener.

What they show is a lack of confidence right through the side. They don't trust each other. The defence don't trust midfield and everyone is shit-scared of making a mistake, which leads to more mistakes.

The other elephant in the room is Calvert-Lewin.

Last season he came back from injury and it took him an age to get anywhere near his best form. Eventually he played that nice little one-two to set up Iwobi.

This time, Frank, the board and the owner have waited and waited for him to miraculously return from injury and hit form.

He has now had about four games (correct me if I'm wrong) and he looks slow, he is mistiming his jumps, his touch is poor and he has few attempts on goal.

I used to wonder if Richarlison was a hard guy to play off but now I know that Dominic is a poor guy to try to play off. A target man needs to be knocking it down to teammates.

He needs to stay onside and Calvert-Lewin seems to get caught too often. He isn't capable of creating anything himself but our usual tactics don't even give him the chance to outrun the centre-half, as unless Pickford launches it, we never pump one straight over the top.

Lampard is such a poor coach. Him and his cronies have decided on a pattern regardless of the players at their disposal. Frank thinks that if they go back to Finch Farm and keep practicing it, they will get better at it.

These guys just can't do it. They all know they can't and they are all culpable for not making a fuss.

I wonder what Michael Keane has said to fall out of favour because I honestly think that Coady has been useless for us.

Tony Abrahams mentioned someone had heard Moyes was on his way and I have also heard this from someone who usually gets wind of things. If so, it is a step up from Frank. Not what I wanted long term but it seems that we lurch from crisis to crisis.

It makes sense because Bill already has a cozy relationship with him and many of the fans didn't seem too bothered how he planned the United job and tried to nick our best players on the cheap.

Still, he can organise a defence – and he ain't Frank Lampard.

Danny O’Neill
63 Posted 17/01/2023 at 09:13:28
You know, I'm with Robert on this, Darren.

It started way before; back in 1989.

Magician, miracle workers (including our current manager) in the last 24 hours. I just cannot believe it's about the manager. Frank, as always, was very honest and added that he can only work with the team he's got.

Now, some will claim that's deflecting the blame. Some will argue he has brought in his own players. No denying that.

But as with many of his predecessors, where did he get to shop? Not Harrods or Waitrose. More Hunts Cross Asda and Morrisons in Speke.

The problem with this club is beyond the manager position and in hindsight has been for decades.

It didn't happen because the Italian came in and very nearly qualified for Europe with an average team.

Actually, talking of poor run-ins into account, the season we somehow managed to crawl over the line and qualify for our ill-fated Champions League campaign in 2005 was dreadful. Including a humiliating 7-0 defeat by Arsenal. It's not like it's new.

Raymond Fox
64 Posted 17/01/2023 at 11:35:06
Our defence has only conceeded 26 goal which is better than a great many and equal up to 5th in the division.Thats after 4 against Brighton who are after all proving they are a pretty good side and 2 versus Southampton.

Whether thats because we are more concered about stopping goals than scoring them is open to debate.

We all know and have for some time now that its scoring enough goals that is killing us. As usual we supporters have no idea if we have money to buy a striker/s or not, if we need to sell to buy then we had better get on with it because if the team is not strengthed substantiall up front it looks increasingly likely that we will go down.

Robert Tressell
65 Posted 17/01/2023 at 12:01:49
Thanks Danny # 63. Basically I can remember about as far back as us signing Tony Cottee but not before that.

In all that time we've had only Rooney and maybe peak Baines who'd be good enough to be a nailed on starter for Man City now.

Lukaku, Kanchelskis, Richarlison, Fellaini, Pickford and (as he currently is) Stones would all be good enough to feature regularly but never quite nail down a spot.

And that's it. Everyone else in 30 years has been more Europa League than Champions League quality - and most well below that standard.

And now we're left with a very low quality team indeed. Probably the worst since the dark Pre Moyes era where we only stayed up through sheer luck.

Michael Lynch
66 Posted 17/01/2023 at 12:05:22
I'm not a Moyes basher by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I look back very fondly on his period as our manager, but why would we employ a manager who has been sacked for dropping a much better team than us into the relegation zone this season?

West Ham have better players all across the pitch than we have, and far more strength in depth, but they're massively under-achieving.

There is no logical reason for us to employ Moyes in an attempt to avoid relegation.

67 Posted 17/01/2023 at 12:21:37
Lampard was shit with Chelsea. And they had far better players than we have. So why appoint him. It's just camacazi. Get Duncan in.
Oliver Molloy
68 Posted 17/01/2023 at 12:46:30
There is a swell of opinion in football that relegation could be a good thing and perhaps the ONLY way of getting rid of this board.
Obviously I don't want Everton to go down, but I am beginning to think that this could be a positive rather than a negative.
Total reset for the club and get everything in order and go straight back up.
Always look on the bright side!
Eddie Dunn
69 Posted 17/01/2023 at 13:32:06
Oliver- what makes you think Kenwright and co will leave just because we drop into the Championship.
Bill could regale a whole new host of Chairmen with his thespian tales of yore.
Ajay Gopal
70 Posted 17/01/2023 at 13:50:42
I am with Tony (53). Lampard needs to get back to the basics - starting with a dour, flat back 4. In fact, he needs to revert to a 4-4-2. I agree that the Iwobi bounce has started fading - I have always maintained that Tom Davies has been criminally under-used. I am sure he will do better than Iwobi if he is given 10% of the chances that Iwobi has had to come good. Give him a run of 3-4 games in a consistent role, and then if he ain't good, then fair enough, get rid. I hear you shout - 'but he has played 160+ games for Everton'. Yes, he has, but never in a consistent role/system. Ancellotti used him as screen in front of the back 4 when Allan was unavailable, and Davies, in my opinion, was more consistent than Allan in that role. Iwobi, Doucoure, Gana - they all run around like headless chickens but lack quality and composure when it matters most.

So, if Lampard plays this team, starting from this Saturday, he might just start digging himself out of the hole he finds himself in. If not, and he loses, then he will be let go, and high time.

Holgate Coady Tarkowski Godfrey
Doucoure Gana Onana Davies
Iwobi Calvert-Lewin

We would still have some firepower in the bench to give the opposition something to think about - Gray, Gordon, Maupay, Simms, McNeil, Vinagre, Mykolenko, Coleman - which Lampard MUST use at some point to keep up the energy and pressure right up to the end.

Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 17/01/2023 at 13:53:24
I definitely thought Southampton played through us at least a couple of times in the first half Darren. Firstly when Pickford pushed a shot from guess who, onto the post, and then when guess who, got involved, sucked us in, and played one out wide, for his mate to put in a cross-shot, that was just to high for your danger man at the far post.

I know what you’re trying to say, but looking at it logically, Ward-Prowse, was definitely the danger man imo, whilst Adams was the game fella up front, who I thought kept Everton’s defenders pre-occupied. I also thought he he was definitely helped because they constantly drop deeper and deeper, and are only really playing on the back foot.

When I watched the first goal again, I couldn’t believe the way our ‘other two central defenders’ had positioned themselves, and they were totally exposed, ‘especially Tarkowski’ because I couldn’t understand his position, once Coady never went and won the header.

It’s horrible, I honestly feel like going into Goodison, to put a few people in a headlock, and then I’d love to continue on to Finch Farm, for a meeting, with Lampard and his players. I’d definitely love to ask the players a few honest question’s. Who knows? this might even get a few of them to step forward, because they are all mostly on the back foot, right now.

I think it’s only Gueye and Iwobi, who are not playing on the back foot, (even gray ended up out wide watching Walker-Peters) but once one player breaks rank, things often open up for the opposition at this level, although this is another separate debate.

Tony Abrahams
72 Posted 17/01/2023 at 13:59:15
Eddie@62, I haven’t heard anything about Moyes coming to Everton, but I have heard rumours that West Ham, are very interested in Benitez.
Oliver Molloy
73 Posted 17/01/2023 at 14:02:15
Of course you could be right, but I just do not think so.
Kenwright is obviously on a promise to lead Everton to the new stadium.
However I do think that this board, Kenwright and the owner have no support or if they do, it is in the minority.
More and more football people are seeing it must change.
The support to see all of them gone is growing and growing.
Of course he could do a Doug Ellis and try and hang in there.
The board and owner have shown they are not capable and the hole they continue to dig for themselves is so deep now I can't see any way out.
There are just too many "middle of the road" Evertonians like me who maybe sat on the fence - this is now changing rapidly.
Real professional, capable and accountable people need to be brought into the club.
Kenwright says he loves Everton, if he does he should step aside.
Kevin Molloy
74 Posted 17/01/2023 at 14:29:35
we've not had a serious manager since Moyes. By that I mean someone who was competent and invested in the project for the medium term. Carlo's buys were as bad as anyone's but he was able to set us up for mid table. We've not had proper planning though at the club for a decade. And the situation was compounded when Moshiri took over, he's an imbecile.

Having said that, the correct appointment will be made at some point (surely!) and when it is, that will right everything. Not immediately, but a couple of years with someone competent will be enough to get us back to where we were.

beyond the obvious though, I think we do have a problem which all of the other other clubs don't have, the fans. How many clubs now have made statements after victory at Goodison Park to the offect that 'we knew if we could keep it goalless for 20 minutes the crowd would start getting on their backs'. I thought we had learnt our lesson last year that anger against the team gets us all relegated, but it seems we need another reminder. This reminder though may kill the patient.

Darren Hind
75 Posted 17/01/2023 at 14:39:04
Danny and Robert

You are trying to counter my argument by beating a drum I've been beating for years on this site. Its because I have been banging this drum so long, that I see the flaw in your argument.
You forget a minor, but very important point.

The difference between the recent managers and the managers who spent decades struggling to be successful can be summed up in six words - seven Hundred and fifty million quid.

This is why I try to avoid getting involved as much as I used to with Carlo supporters. They don't seem to be able to apply logic or reason to the irrefutable facts. The official records.
Even now they will talk about his pulling power, his great tactics, his ability to get us challenging at the right end of the table...But they refuse to accept the zombie football he subjected us to. They refuse to accept that the guy couldnt buy a win after Christmas.

We've had many a bad season, we've also seen many a mini revival, but we havent seen a slump this worrying stretch as long as the current one.

Mr Fantastico was here for about 18 months. In that time he earned about 18m quid. He brought in his relatives and former colleagues as staff. That lot would have cost around 6-7 million. I wont mention Godfrey because he wasnt a carlo signing, but even if he got James on a free (dubious) He still spent 40 odd million on players. If you take their wages into consideration your looking at an overall cost of around 100m for the services of the non magician.

18 Months which cost the club around 100m. All the people he brought in, left the club in free-fall. All of them.

Some people may deny his roll in our current crisis. I wont. It didnt start after he left. It started on his watch. He left the club in a turmoil it cant recover from.

I was there when a bunch of pissed up Everton players were put to the sword by Denis the menace at Highbury. I was there for all the other heavy defeats too. but I wont accept stuff that happened years ago as an excuse for the terrible damage Mr Fantastico did to this club

John Raftery
76 Posted 17/01/2023 at 15:15:55
Under Ancelotti after Christmas 2020 we won at Anfield, The Emirates and The London Stadium. We had not previously won at the first two this century.
Danny O’Neill
77 Posted 17/01/2023 at 15:30:42
I personally don't think it's manager after manager that has done the real damage to this club, Darren.

Many clubs pay managers millions and give them transfer budgets.

Let's look across the Park. The season they spent millions buying Southampton. The second coming of Daglish. Significant outlay with no return.

I'll agree with you, it's not what you spend, but how you spend it. In the modern game, how much is that down to the manager?

Sorry, Darren, I'll just have to disagree on this one. Our problems are how the club has been run for decades. It's why we are still at "woodison", a stadium we fondly love yet get the piss taken out of us by most opposition supporters.

Darren Hind
78 Posted 17/01/2023 at 16:02:03
Makes me wonder what all that happy clapping was about then, Danny.

After listening to people telling me how wonderful he was and how he was going to bring world superstars, you are now telling me he didn't have a chance in the first place, while Robert tells me he was a brief experiment.

18 months and £100M quid down the Swanee, then.

I feel so grateful. Now I realise why!

Danny O’Neill
79 Posted 17/01/2023 at 16:06:51
Every appointment is a gamble, Darren.

You know that. From what I read, you like a bet.

We've gambled over the years and lost.

But we're not out of the game just yet and still have a throw of the dice.

Rob Dolby
80 Posted 17/01/2023 at 16:22:12
Lampard falls down on a pretty basic point in my opinion.

A good manager will shape tactics around the players available not force tactics on players not capable of playing in that system.

Even after half a dozen games last season he was flogging a dead horse with the 433.

He brought in Mauphy to replace Richarleson. What has he seen in Mauphy that the rest of us haven't?

The players look lost in his tactics. Most teams play traditional wingers on the opposite flank. frank doesn't bother.
Onana and Gana brought in but it looks like they decide on the day which one goes or which one stays. In reality both are holding midfielders so why try and change them.

He has changed to 541 in some games with mixed results. A formation reliant on 2 attacking wingbacks. Being polite I don't think this suits our fullbacks.

He brought in Dele and couldn't get rid of him quick enough. Dele is one of the very few in the squad with a goal in him.
Personally I would being him back from Turkey, even half arsed he is better than what we have.

Personally I would be playing 4411.
Godfrey, Mina, Tarkowski, Mykolenko
Doucoure, Onana, Gana, Gray

In lampard's defence the absence of DCL through injuries has had a massive impact. The lack of transfer policy along with budget restrictions are factors that haven't helped and won't go away.

I do think Lampard needs to go but I also think that whoever comes in will get the sack in 12 months given the current board/owner structure. Since 2016 we have turned into Watford.

Brian Harrison
81 Posted 17/01/2023 at 16:49:06

During our last 100 years the best win % rate who managed for a season or more are as follows.

Kendall mk1 win ratio was 54.14

Catterick win ratio was 46.46

Ancelotti win ratio was 46.27

There can be many arguments as to whether people liked his style of play and as John Rafferty said in his post under Ancelotti we won away at Anfield and at the Emirates for the first time this century. As for his signings he brought 2 players to the club James and Allan both who had played for him previously. I think Allan cost about 26 million and although on high money James didn't cost us anything in transfer fees. When he arrived here Ancelotti was introduced to both Doucoure and Godfrey signed technically when he became manager, and very openly Ancelotti admitted he knew nothing about them. so I don't know who gave the green light to sign these 2 but it certainly wasn't Ancelotti.

I think the break in to his home while his Daughter was in the house would make any father think twice about if staying here was the right decision. Unlike Lampard or most of the other managers Moshiri signed he actually lived in the City and spoke of his fondness for his surroundings. Lampard still lives in London, Koeman lived in Manchester.

Robert Tressell
82 Posted 17/01/2023 at 20:48:21
To be honest, Darren, I don't know why it all descends into catchphrases like Happy Clappers or Carlo Fantastico. Who are you aiming these things at?

Anyway, Brian # 81 has said the most intelligent things on the post so far. None of that implies Ancelotti was a roaring success with us or that he was a good fit the club. Despite being highly decorated elsewhere he was neither, but still did okay with a bad group of players.

Had we been able to spend big I expect he'd have delivered too. It was pointless for him to continue once the money ran out though. Like asking Rembrandt to make do with a bag of crayons. Hence a suspicion held for some time now that Dyche would be the right fit to keep us up.

Don Alexander
83 Posted 17/01/2023 at 21:16:51
Robert, Darren always goes that way whatever the subject. It's a bit like Tourette's. In his current mood he's laying all the blame on Ancelotti after having spent years berating, as I have, the useless self-serving liar that is Kenwright for hiring so many inadequate people to play, coach or manage.

The club cannot spend this season or those coming next due to gross negligence/recklessness in the boardroom he led for years and now chairs with 95% control.

That sort of problem defeats any manager.


Robert Tressell
84 Posted 17/01/2023 at 21:34:51
That is understandable, Don. I spent my teens watching awful Everton sides without a pot to piss in barely escape relegation each season. I had hoped we'd seen the last of it. It's enough to drive anyone potty.
Darren Hind
85 Posted 17/01/2023 at 22:10:31

I know Carlos Stats. You have put them up here dozens of times. But what about reality ?

In his last 13 games. He lost six and drew four - Including home losses to Burnley, Villa and and Sheffield united. That sort of form will get you in deep shit.

I'd have given some credence to your claim that the burglary had a lot to do with him leaving if it hadnt taken such an awful run before the trauma kicked in.

It was great to get the Arsenal and Anfield monkey of our backs, but you have to understand they were going through the worst periods in memory.

Carlo did admit he knew nothing about Godfrey (thats why I took him out of the equation )... but here's what he said about Doucoure - "He can play anywhere on the pitch. He can play no 10 or in front of the defence. His work defensively is really good. He has fantastic ability for the transition. He is fantastic box to box"

This guy has managed some of the games greatest ever midfield players. Was he was giving an honest appraisal. Or was he having Evertonian Kecks off ? You decide

I've heard all the excuses. The stats and the the revisionism. but It doesnt change the fact that it cost EFC 100m for Carlo to leave the club in deep shit We havent recovered.

My final word on Mr Fantastico.

Oh good Santa`s little helper is back @83... and he wants to talk about me...for a change.

Bless him

Don Alexander
86 Posted 17/01/2023 at 22:49:20
Dazza, to quote one of your least unpleasant responses to fellow Toffees, "read my post again"!

It's mainly about Kenwright, the bloke you've lambasted on here for many years prior to Ancelotti, just like me.

When it comes to berating any Toffee you perceive to be of a different opinion to you you're just a dick, openly and repeatedly vilified for many years as such, like no other poster. Only a misanthropic moron could be proud of that.

And, in fairness, this response is indeed all about you.

Darren Hind
87 Posted 17/01/2023 at 23:08:55
Love blanking brave little soldiers who want to get abusive and whiney about the responses I havent /wouldnt ever afford them.

Don Alexander
88 Posted 17/01/2023 at 23:22:11
Taking a Kenwright-like attitude to basic, provable truth is pathetic Dazza.

You've been called out far too often to count by many of us but you still persist in your never-ending mantra of "I'm right, and those who disagree with me are all wrong".

You're spouting 24 carat Kenwright shite to genuine fans but, like him, ignore and disparage those of different, credible opinion.

Are you related perchance, or will you truly re-state your disdain for him?


Darren Hind
89 Posted 17/01/2023 at 23:25:56
Laughing here
Don Alexander
90 Posted 17/01/2023 at 23:39:49
Pathetic, again.
Ajay Gopal
91 Posted 18/01/2023 at 05:45:59
Is Bielsa still available? If he is, I hope the board are already in deep discussions and ironing out the minor details of the formal announcement. What we need in a manager right now is:

1. A great coach
2. An excellent tactician
3. A strong personality
4. Can get the best of the players available to him
5. Non-divisive, non-controversial - unites the fan base

Bielsa ticks all the boxes. I know it all went pear shaped for him at Leeds at the end, but what a great 3 years it was for them. Also, looking at the worst case scenario, he could be counted on to bring us back up again quickly.

Get him in, and get him the players he needs, and I would suddenly feel very optimistic about us staying up this season. The big question is: would be interested?

Laurie Hartley
92 Posted 18/01/2023 at 20:40:44
Ajay # 91,

I think Bielsa would be good for us for all the reasons you state and two more.

He would have them as physically fit as any other team.

The players are shell-shocked – they need someone who they will believe can get them off the deck.

The problem could be that he is being considered by both Bournemouth and Uruguay.

Is he mad enough to take the Everton job on? Probably if his nickname is anything to go by – El Loco.

Philip Lockett
93 Posted 18/01/2023 at 2023/01/18 : 22:33:21

Why oh why are we watching Lampard doing this all on his own?

If the board want him to carry on, he needs help from one of our own like Big Dunk or Joe Royle to steady this ship, just temporarily, before there is no way back to do it.

It seems clear our present players need massive guidance. They need it now or watch our club die!!!

Iain Johnston
94 Posted 18/01/2023 at 22:51:39
Interesting comments by Antonio about West Ham on the BBC Sport site:

Michail Antonio says change of philosophy is not working

Laurie Hartley
95 Posted 18/01/2023 at 23:40:21
Phil #93,

With all due respect, unfortunately I feel we are well past that stage. Frank hasn't got it. We need radical change.

Mike Price
96 Posted 18/01/2023 at 23:54:11
Lampard had a poor record as a fledgling manager yet we hired him to oversee and organise one of the worst squads of players ever assembled.

He's now confirmed he is out of his depth with no ability to effectively organise these poor players, recruiting new poor players, showing no tactical awareness, no in-game management, and creating what appears to be a bad team spirit.

How can't he see that the defence is slow, deep, not very aggressive and not very skilful? Mykolenko looks like he's won a competition and should be dropped immediately.

Our so-called ‘good' players aren't very good. I can't stand Pickford; for every decent reaction save, he lets in shocking goals and affects the defence with his erratic behaviour and by never commanding his area. If it wasn't for Southgate, I doubt he'd be even in the England squad.

Iwobi is garbage in my opinion. Headless chicken that shuffles about with no aggression, never tackles, can't pick a pass and rarely scores yet we want to give him a new contract! His tracking back for the Wolves winner sums him up. Meanwhile, Man Utd are offering the electric Garnacho £20k for his improved contract. Sums up how badly we buy, sell and incentivise contracts.

Calvert-Lewin, our eternal saviour, is average. He's not very good at anything; not that fast, not aggressive, can't beat a man, poor link-up play, never scores from distance and can never create anything for himself. He had a short purple patch and we should have cashed in on him. Maybe he'll eventually come good as he continues to perfect his ‘craft'!

A manager's job is to make the best of what you have and then prune the deadwood and add players to improve the squad. Lampard hasn't got a clue and it seems glaringly obvious that he wants the sack and his payoff. I think even he knows he's out of his depth and it's not for him.

The fact that Moshiri can't see any of this is our death knell. He had to get rid before the World Cup so that we had enough games to give an actual manager time to plan an escape.

Praying for a miracle but it just feels different this time.

Ernie Baywood
97 Posted 19/01/2023 at 00:28:20
Mike, I'm all for changing the manager if it will do any good. I disagree with your comment on team spirit. It's the one thing I do see in our performances. They're working hard for him... but between the available players and the tactics – they're just not good enough.

I don't fully understand how it can be argued that he's proved himself not to be good enough... yet every player at his disposal is trash.

I think he's got the hardest job in football. There are teams at the top with high expectations but they are well run and have budgets to match. There are teams at the bottom who are relatively sustainable and give a manager the opportunity to overachieve against lower expectations.

The Everton manager has to deal with top-half expectations with an absolute shambles of a club behind him. There's no prospect of overachieving. Midtable would be a miracle with what's going on.

As I said, I'll happily see the manager go if it improves things. But if it's not going to improve the players then what is the point? Is Iwobi going to be any better? He certainly wasn't under the last managers – Lampard has arguably extracted as much as possible out of that guy where plenty have failed.

I'm not convinced. We are so unstable right now right through the club. It's a huge gamble to change the manager also, who seems to be well-liked if not necessarily lauded for his tactical ability.

Is there a Joe Royle figure out there that we can get behind?

Derek Thomas
98 Posted 19/01/2023 at 02:04:24
Iain J @ 94;

Moyes will never make that 'transition' – he just hasn't got it in him.

I'd take Antonio all day long and for £6-8 mill, I wouldn't mind Rodriguez either... 6-month loan with a 1-year option, slanted in our favour.

Iain Johnston
99 Posted 19/01/2023 at 07:19:05
Derek@98 I agree, Stoke tried it by replacing Pulis with Hughes to play a more fluent attacking game. 5 years later they were in the EFL and 5 years on from that they're still there after multiple managers, mid table finishes & a billionaire owner.

Lampard said when he first arrived that no matter what, the team would play out from the back in a 'measured approach'. At our level in the league it doesn't work, we won't attract that level of footballing defender nor have we really bought a consistent & competent sweeper keeper.

Tarks, Coady, Keane & Holgate are stoppers, not ball players.

But FL still insists on being more indirect than an M62 diversion.

I'd have Antonio too, surely there's a deal to be done with Keane going in the opposite way to offset wages? WHU want to move Craig Dawson on so for me it's a win win.

Laurie Hartley
100 Posted 19/01/2023 at 07:49:37
Ernie # 97 - in answer to your question “ As I said, I'll happily see the manager go if it improves things. But if it's not going to improve the players then what is the point?
Never reward failure it’s sends the wrong message to everyone.
Eric Myles
101 Posted 20/01/2023 at 13:18:34
Danny #2, we didn't play Lescott at left back before there was any faith in Baines.

We played Lescott at left back because when Baines joined from Wigan he was injured.

Lescott hated playing left back and as soon as Baines was fit he took that role.

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