In a more ideal world, Sean Dyche would have guided Everton to safety this season and left the Club with our thanks for a job well-enough done. The Blues’ new owners, The Friedkin Group, would be able to use the time in between to put together a strategic succession plan for the manager and look to hire a more dynamic, forward-thinking head coach to lead their new era heading into Bramley-Moore Dock.
Nothing about the footballing circumstances at Everton is ideal though or even close to it and it appears from the more in-depth reporting that has followed the termination of Dyche’s contract that in admitting he had reached the end of his personal road where the struggle to win games was concerned, the gruff 53-year-old left TFG little choice but to accelerate his departure.
When it comes to who could conceivably replace him — quickly, painlessly and cheaply to avoid the protracted searches for a new boss that followed the sacking of Rafael Benitez and Frank Lampard — when you consider the Club’s threadbare squad, declining fortunes in front of goal this season and increasingly perilous position in the table, the hierarchy have opted, quite sensibly, for what will hopefully be the steadying influence of David Moyes.
Now is not the time to be experimenting with a young, up-and-coming coach or a patient builder like Graham Potter, and maybe not even one of the options from abroad who may have experience but are unproven in the Premier League.
Evertonians know all too well that Moyes is not the most exciting of figureheads for your team. That lack of dynamism was reflected a lot of the time in the performances during his tenure, and it was one of the key reasons why West Ham elected not to extend his contract at the end of last season. That despite him having delivered to them their first trophy of the Premier League era.
The length of contract that the Glaswegian has been given has deflated some of the optimism that some fans have felt, first in the wake of Dyche’s exit and, secondly, at the prospect of welcoming back a man who knows the demands of the job at Goodison and is intimately familiar with the Club… even if much has changed in the 12 years since he left.
There again though, TFG had little choice. Moyes was unlikely to accept another short-term deal like the one he initially signed at West Ham in 2017 and you have to consider the message it would send to Everton’s players to install someone at the helm who might well be out the door again in six months’ time.
While the new American owners have wiped away the financial crisis that has gripped the Club for the past couple of years and will be looking to usher in clear leadership and direction off the pitch, when it comes to footballing matters Everton desperately need stability. Moyes, with his wealth of experience can bring just that. Though he had expressed a reluctance to take on another fight against relegation, he is a veteran of such situations, having saved the Toffees once and West Ham twice, while there is debate as to whether he could have kept Sunderland up in 2016-17.
Their Europa Conference League triumph aside, the Hammers may have been largely uninspiring at times under Moyes but there was a familiar blend of silk and steel about the side he oversaw at the London Stadium, with the likes of Mohammed Kudus, Lucas Paquetà and Jarrod Bowen complimented by Tomas Soucek, Edson Alvarez and the bustling Michail Antonio.
And in four of the last five seasons —including, it should be noted, Carlo Ancelotti’s full season at Goodison — Moyes’s West Ham finished above Everton. It wasn’t as consistent as his decade-plus at Goodison — perhaps it couldn’t have been given how competitive the Premier League has become — but once he had established himself at the London Stadium there was never any danger of them going down.
A big part of the legacy he left at Everton was the defensive solidity that Roberto Martinez inherited and benefited from in his oh-so-nearly first season on charge. Obviously, if there was an element of the Dyche regime you’d want to preserve, it would be the emphasis on keeping things tight and trying to nick one, a mantra that became synonymous with Moyes at Everton during that determined push towards fourth place in 2005.
The key in his second spell will be finding ways to turn a shot-shy, confidence-shredded attacking unit into something capable of creating chances and scoring goals. Dyche ultimately proved incapable of doing so but, as the better all-round coach, there’s more confidence that Moyes can, especially if he and Kevin Thelwell are able to bring in a couple of targeted, effective signings before the transfer deadline.
It’s unlikely Moyes would have been anyone’s first choice to lead Everton into the new stadium and a potentially bright new future on the banks of the Mersey but there is no question that he, more than almost anyone the Club could have hired, will appreciate the enormity of that move to Evertonians.
Whether he has what it takes to lead this beaten-down institution back to greatness might be open to question but, for now, when safety is paramount, he should be the safe pair of hands we need.
Reader Comments (146)
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2 Posted 11/01/2025 at 08:28:55
COYB
3 Posted 11/01/2025 at 08:38:58
Just one question though, was it just about West Ham not wanting to extend Moyes contract, I heard that Moyes himself wasn’t keen to put pen to paper.
4 Posted 11/01/2025 at 08:52:08
Regardless of this season's outcome (that is, relegation or otherwise), a clear out is needed. No more big characters from yesteryear; it's time to move on.
5 Posted 11/01/2025 at 08:54:20
6 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:00:20
1. I’m not sure Moyes would want this job and the back seat he’d have to take on a day-to-day basis.
2. A strong DOF develops a clear pathway from youth set-up to first team, something Moyes has never seemed interested in.
I like Carsley as a coach, and with Moyes’ experience to lean on it could work.
7 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:11:01
I'm not a Moyes fan either but, with all things considered, plus it's still the early days of the transfer window, it's a pragmatic and obvious appointment. I'd have taken the tea lady over Dyche but also would've loved to have seen a more progressive and younger man. But for the short term at least, this makes sense.
In my honest opinion, we won't go down with Moyes but we were in free fall with Dyche and would have!
8 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:11:06
Also, there seems to be a lot of narrative about how ‘bad' the squad is. I'm confident that they're a lot better than they've looked so far this season. Whether Moyes is the manager to show that, though, I'm not sure…
9 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:25:31
Like others, I feel that now Moyes is here we must forget the past and get behind him. It’s counterproductive if we don’t. He’ll want success in the same way that we do.
10 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:27:32
In fact, I think Moyes deserves great credit for Coleman's career, and Seamus has said as much. He had serious fundamental defensive flaws, which is why Moyes played him at right mid in 2011. Moyes coached him on positional awareness and helped him become what he could be.
One thing Moyes can do is teach.
11 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:28:08
12 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:29:16
13 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:35:32
14 Posted 11/01/2025 at 09:59:45
15 Posted 11/01/2025 at 10:20:21
16 Posted 11/01/2025 at 10:41:31
Dyche knew he was not going to get a new contract.He though surviving relegation was not able to step up this season.The record is there for all to see.
Moyes will be able to survive this season in the Premiership, as Dyche would have probably done had he been on a new contract. But, next season Moyes may be able to get more out of the attack, which would be a step up on Dyche. It is probable that all those at Everton will fall in behind him.He is their choice, offering comfort in the face of New Owners.
Great Summary of the situation Lyndon.
I am comforted now rather than disappointed.
17 Posted 11/01/2025 at 11:02:26
He got us into the Champions league and got us to a FA Cup final and a semi final on a shoestring, as well as finishing regularly in the top 8. And there are posters on here complaining, rejoice we have a man who will coach this team properly unlike the last man who the players have openly admitted in the last day didnt do much if any coaching at all.
Moyes will know that this is no quick fix and to try and change the total negativity that Dyche brought to this club will take a little time. But on Wednesday against Villa a very good team I will go there with optimism and hope, I had neither of those feelings going to Goodison under Dyche.
19 Posted 11/01/2025 at 11:11:42
This is a measured, intelligent reaction to, and explanation of, the events of the last few days and I commend it to the house.
20 Posted 11/01/2025 at 11:12:27
Does anyone know who Moyes may likely go for in the transfer market? He didn't have much pulling power when he last managed Everton so I hope that has improved.
I am hoping he sticks with the 451 formation which can also go to 433 or 424 with the right personnel. It is all about attacking intent and having the know how for me.
We do need a new manager bounce in his first few games.
21 Posted 11/01/2025 at 12:18:43
Nonetheless, I am open to Moyes convincing me through his forthcoming endeavours. Perhaps he can start by securing a mid table finish - a Cup win wouldn't go amiss either!
22 Posted 11/01/2025 at 12:27:33
Moshiri is gone, things will hopefully improve, let's just give this a chance, eh, and see how it transpires.
23 Posted 11/01/2025 at 13:35:37
24 Posted 11/01/2025 at 13:48:01
If that does not happen, Moyes may very well take us down. He is too similar to Dyche to inspire real change in the way the team plays.
His legacy would be to make us a laughing stock. Agent Moyes completes his mission, and so on.
We needed a motivational speaker and a football coach, not a control freak, old school general manager.
25 Posted 11/01/2025 at 14:02:46
26 Posted 11/01/2025 at 14:04:55
27 Posted 11/01/2025 at 14:21:50
We have new owners, new stadium and yet we take a step backwards with this appointment of David Moyes who, at best can maybe bring safety in getting something different out of our piss poor squad.
Premiership stays again takes priority over ambition and we again become the laughing stock of the prem.
Allardyce, Benitez, Dyche and the return of knives to a gunfight. It’s a wonder we still have any fan base let alone the best support in the land.
28 Posted 11/01/2025 at 14:26:24
29 Posted 11/01/2025 at 14:46:05
I'm not saying the cream of the crop of young players will be beating down our door now Dyche has gone, but at least they know there is medium term stability, with a manager who has won a European trophy recently, and has experience second to none in the Premier League.
Together with new ownership and a new ground, we're a slightly better proposition than before.
30 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:02:24
The manner of Moyes’ leaving, and his disdain for us, stuck in my craw. But the whole business of football in the English Premier League stinks, and is filled with greed. We either have to suspend our critical faculties, or give up on it.
The appointment has been made. It is not necessarily a retrograde step, it might just be a smaller step forward than we wished for. Perhaps now is not the time for a big step, but to hunker down to survive this season, and further stabilise next season.
I hope Moyes can use his experience, good and bad, to help us. And to nurture an up and coming prospective coach over the next couple of years.
31 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:10:28
The only thing Moyes' teams lacked was Lukaku, whom Martinez was intelligent enough to loan and then purchase.
Like many at the time, I was relieved he'd gone. I hoped a more "progressive" manager would unlock the attacking potential of the squad. Forgetting that Moyes had built the squad on pennies (yes, the wage bill was decent, but the net spend was a joke), I thought his successor would do more with what he'd assembled.
Instead, we've stagnated, and are back to where we were in early 2002. The notion that some sexy young manager is going to come in and manage the island of misfit toys of a squad we've assembled to goals and exciting football is pure delusion.
32 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:14:15
Potter turned round Östersund in his very first season and had two successive promotions. He had a decent first season with Swansea. Stabilised Brighton in his very first season. If he'd had any decent strikers in his second season he would have come 5th in the Premier League (look at the Xg table for that season if you don't believe me). Potter wasn't the only one available there were other options but he was the main one with Premier League experience. To pass him and others over for Moyes is completely underwhelming. He may well keep us up but I think it's going to be tight because that's what his record indicates. He's not the person you want to quickly turn a team around. If he does manage to keep us up, what then? He isn't going to be able to build the team up to be regularly challenging for European places within two seasons, where I think Potter would have. It's a poor short term appointment and we've had plenty of them.
33 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:17:43
‘On a shoestring’ is debatable. Where teams tend to finish is generally most closely associated with the wage bill not the transfer fees (those things can be closely associated but don’t have to be). I believe our wage bill was commensurate with our average finishing spot for the most part. So, good - especially as Everton have proven you can have an enormous wage bill and an under-performing squad - but not as remarkable as it can be made out to be.
34 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:25:11
35 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:27:41
‘ It’s hard to find words that can possibly express how most of us feel.’
It’s not most of us Pete, it’s some.
36 Posted 11/01/2025 at 15:49:35
It was the way and manner in which he left us, him and his fat faced mate kept schtum about his Utd appointment, even though it was all but common knowledge, if he'd of been honest with the fans there would not be the bad blood there is.
As for qualifying us for the CL...he didn't! We qualified for the CL qualification group, not the CL itself. I have no time for him tbh, he called the fans a disgrace, attempted to take our best players at a bargain price and accused the club of holding back their career's when we wouldn't sell.
Im not arsed whether he does well or not tbh, hes just another dinosaur in a rapidly changing game, he'll be sharpening his knife for that gunfight as we speak.
37 Posted 11/01/2025 at 16:10:39
Of course some managers are more able than others but its the quality of the players that is the game changer.
Just imagine our team with one of the best midfielders in the Prem. and Salah up front, it wouldn't matter who the manager was.
We keep changing the manager, selling our best players and then buying bang average ones and hope its going to work, I think we have proved it doesn't.
38 Posted 11/01/2025 at 16:22:56
39 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:05:54
He did get us a lot of good players, and was able to develop players.
But he always played too defensive against better teams.
With the money he had at his disposition I believe he did a very good job.
However, I don't expect him to see out a contract of 2,5 years.
40 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:08:42
short term; steer us clear of a dangerous relegation dog fight with a pretty dreadful squad low on confidence
medium term, consolidate our position in the league, and build up the squad with some shrewd signings
long term, ability to withdraw gracefully when we appoint 'elite coach'.
previous knowledge of the league and/or club viewed as an advantage.
seriously, is there a better candidate.
41 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:09:21
TFG should have had this covered but once again we have to swallow our already battered pride to accept another poor decision by people who, let’s be honest, don’t give a fuck about the supporters.
Moyes may just be a safe pair of hands but he may also not be and we get relegated anyway. He’ll just say that it wasn’t his fault and walk away with his millions.
Would anyone want this dinosaur to bring us back and rebuild the club ??
Absolutely disgusted at this decision.
42 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:16:58
43 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:20:36
The 4 posters above you are in favour of him coming back and I’m pretty sure they are all blues, Pete.
44 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:21:03
"With the money he had at his disposition I believe he did a very good job".
Could you explain how an average finish of 8th with an average 7th highest expenditure is doing a very good job?
I'm not asking you to compare him to managers before or since, just to explain why finishing below his level of expenditure is doing a very good job?
45 Posted 11/01/2025 at 17:41:48
Many managers won't take on a troubled project like us at midseason, and we'll never know whether Moyes was TFG's first choice or others were approached. John #32, you state as fact that Potter and others were "passed over" in favor of Moyes but there is no evidence of that.
I don't hold past grudges about Moyes for his behavior when he departed -- I'm just miserable that we've hired a yesterday guy who has mostly failed since he left us. But at least the hire got done, and we're not heading into an important league game in four days' time with the youth coach and the team captain in charge.
I will swallow my disappointment and unhesitatingly get behind the guy, simply because there's no other choice. Getting points on the board is all that matters right now. And the very least we can say is that TFG has hired someone who knows how to do that.
46 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:06:40
It'd be nice to think that he see's this as a chance to achieve more than he did last time 'round. After rebuilding back to where he'd got us before, of course. However, does he have the mentality to take the next step and actually challenge? I'd love to think it's there & will come to the fore this time - after all, this may well be the biggest job of his remaining career.
47 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:14:15
He's on board, so let's support him.
48 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:24:35
The turmoil all Everton fans have had to put up with has led to polarisation of opinions and a general skittish feel to relations between those posting responses( that is, those who don’t meet up in The Brick before the game).
Personally, I think Moyes will keep us up, but I don’t think we should expect this group of players to suddenly click in to gear and go on a run of wins. Where the fans do, I think, agree on is we have the base of a good defence, and a decent defensive midfield; what we don’t have is threat on the flanks ( with pace) nor a proven goalscorer. Moyes will, I am sure, already be on the ear of the DoF to acquire at least two players who can be brought in to strengthen in forward areas.
49 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:35:21
...apparently it's never the time for us to do this.
We can't hire someone who might be good, in case they might be bad.
Moyes might be fine. He might not. It's still a deeply uninspiring, unambitious, hire. And not inherently less risky than hiring a less known quantity.
50 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:36:37
TFG now own us, with massive financial resources, subject to PSR spending constraints.
TFG, plus the new stadium, plus him knowing Everton and our history, made it a very attractive proposition indeed.
Whilst I think he was, far too often, too negative and too respectful of teams above us.
I would rather be hung as a sheep than a lamb.
May he be given the tools to take an AK47 to a gunfight.
51 Posted 11/01/2025 at 18:48:52
Nigel, (35), I think that Peter is talking about the difficulty of describing a spectrum of opinions/positions in articulate and succinct ways. I hate to put words into Peter's mouth, but I don't think that he is saying that "most" of us can't stand Moyes.
And now the more important stuff. Pete do you have any idea where Marine's new ground will be?
52 Posted 11/01/2025 at 19:11:51
53 Posted 11/01/2025 at 19:21:32
Perhaps Davey will have a real fight on his hands even at his best as it's unlikely that he'll get funds for players who could make a difference. Go for it, Davey, keeping us up after this could be your finest moment. Getting a tune out of this squad would be an incredible but unlikely bonus.
54 Posted 11/01/2025 at 19:22:17
55 Posted 11/01/2025 at 19:26:30
56 Posted 11/01/2025 at 19:36:52
57 Posted 11/01/2025 at 21:01:58
58 Posted 11/01/2025 at 21:12:46
Every manager is on borrowed time as soon as they take up the post. If Moyes meets the expectations of the owners, he will remain in post no matter what the fans think. If he doesn't, he'll be off.
No different from any other manager in that respect.
59 Posted 11/01/2025 at 23:23:14
However…
The seasons 04-/05 to 13-14 (admittedly the last season was under Martinez) was the second highest average league placement in the club's history over a 10-year period, bettered only by the '80s.
We finished in the Top 6 five times and in the Top 8 nine times in a 10-year period. All of this with an average net spend of just over £1million per year.
Barring Howard Kendall, David Moyes built the most consistent team we have ever had in our history – better than Harry Catterick.
After the last few years – I'll quite happily take Moyes failure again for the next 30 months.
60 Posted 11/01/2025 at 23:32:05
And that is the problem I have with the Moyes doubters: it's not about his performance whilst he was here, it's about his ethics when he left.
Well, we are in Shit Street… so fuck his ethics: needs must, I'm afraid.
61 Posted 11/01/2025 at 00:08:11
I respect that The Friedkin Group, having steadied the financial position, needed to pick a safe pair of hands. Let's get on with it!
62 Posted 12/01/2025 at 00:41:06
63 Posted 12/01/2025 at 04:16:44
Fingers crossed that TFG, knowing the critical importance of the "General Manager - Head Coach relationship" (Google what Monchi & Unai Emery achieved together at Sevilla & Villa), is not going to be swayed eventually by Moyes's hunger for power to unwind all the hard work laid down by Thelwell (or his successor as DoF).
64 Posted 12/01/2025 at 06:16:46
Cherie Lunghi??
65 Posted 12/01/2025 at 06:36:17
Moyes Mk I saved us from relegation, coming in 2 months before season end and within two seasons took us to 4th.
And you expect any other manager to do better than that!
66 Posted 12/01/2025 at 08:07:04
The game has changed since then.
Managers are far more sophisticated tactically now. Moyes is from a different era.
I am very disappointed that he has been hired but I will always be behind the team.
It would be interesting to know who advised our new owners to appoint him.
67 Posted 12/01/2025 at 08:27:36
And thats pretty much it, remove the 'emotion' about how he left etc...look at the overall performance level during his first spell - we'd kill for that level of 'failure' in the short term.
Though we obviously can't guarantee it will go well this time, the evidence suggests he's a lower risk appointment than some of the other more 'exciting' names mooted.
We're about to find out.
68 Posted 12/01/2025 at 08:57:58
Obviously, you feel the same as I do!
Boohoo! 🤣
69 Posted 12/01/2025 at 09:32:02
Best of luck to our new manager. I wish him every success.
70 Posted 12/01/2025 at 10:31:09
So mention he didnt win anything with us and thats correct but I have only seen 3 managers in the 70 years I have been watching Everton who have won things. Moyes managed on a shoestring having to look down the back of Kenwrights sofa for money to buy players and what gems he bought. Those players he bought were sold for much gold and kept this club afloat financially. There is also the perception he was a defensive coach, just look at the footballers and attackers he brought to the club. Thats why Man Utd signed him not because he was a defensive coach.
As for achievement's well getting into the Champions league which only Catterick achieved and Kendal couldnt because of the Hysel ban. He got us to the final against Chelsea and also a semi final. Also a consistent league position of around 7th. Apart from Martinez for one season who inherited Moyes team, no other manager has got anywhere near getting us to such heights in the league. Look I don't know if he will keep us up, but if we had left Dyche in charge we were going down. Also whatever happens we will be in better shape as a club when he leaves than what was here when he arrived.
71 Posted 12/01/2025 at 11:01:21
It’s been exhausting being an Evertonian, and if Moyes can demonstrate a safe pair of hands then it’s all good for me.
2 1/2 years is not a very long time, but it’s a crucial 2 1/2 years for EFC.
So give the man a chance, there’s no need to go overboard with the welcome back to Goodison, just be polite and let him earn back some of the respect from those who have lost it.
I was worried that Dyche was going to get us relegated, at least TFG have acted to try to avoid the catastrophe.
Now it’s all about players on the pitch, the manager can pick them, but they need to step up and get the fans behind them. Moyes will quickly find out whether Dyche was getting the best out of this bunch, or whether he was getting it all wrong and there’s a better team within. We’ll find out too.
72 Posted 12/01/2025 at 11:17:05
At this juncture there was no other choice.
Anybody who rallies against this appointment needs to put forward who they would have offered the job to.
I left the “other post” yesterday thoroughly disappointed with the rants of some bitter posters.
The thing we need more than ever right now is to pull together and get to BMD with our premier league status intact and a summer rebuild on the cards.
If nothing else I expect Moyes will take us up a level and we will no longer have to suffer the deluded rhetoric of a dead man walking.
That is something we need to embrace and cherish.
COYB
73 Posted 12/01/2025 at 11:53:44
Moyes is a good solution to our short term problems.
I think he will get a hero's welcome next Wednesday.
Let's hope that the fans can really get behind the guy and his team.
Although Dyche worked hard and we must thanks him for his actions despite the deductions etc, we all know that as professional as he was, he was still a Liverpool fan.
Moyes is definitely a blue and an upgrade on the Kettering Kopite.
74 Posted 12/01/2025 at 11:57:33
Change can work both ways, positive and negative.
There was nothing wrong with our defence under Dyche only 6 teams have conceeded less goals.
We couldn't score though and thats a very big problem, it all comes down to who do you blame.
Its largely the midfields job to create chances and score the odd goal, but what can you say about our forwards, when they got a rare chance they usually fluffed it.
All I can say is good luck to Moyes and ourselves because I think we will need plenty for a change.
75 Posted 12/01/2025 at 12:22:41
And Moyes, who gets a the decent length contract he craves and probably only we would offer.
I suspect a big loser will be Thelwell who looks on borrowed time. The other big loser with be all those who dreamed of much better under new owners, a new stadium and a debt re-structuring.That would include me and this appointment looks like some very expensive sticking plaster.
76 Posted 12/01/2025 at 12:38:44
Mind you Moyes might surprise us.
77 Posted 12/01/2025 at 12:53:24
There are a couple of clubs, including Leicester and Man City, facing possible points sanctions. This may relegate them. We should be ok due to the new owners and there being precedent of fresh starts being given in our circumstances.
Moyes is low-key, has a history of building solid foundations and is of an age where he could be moved upstairs into a technical position in the future (if best qualified).
EFC, outside of our fanbase, have fallen into obscurity. My opinion is no decent attacking talent would have seriously considered working under Dyche, given the tactics employed.
What manager/coach options were seriously available and considered? We’ll never really know. For all we know TFG had sounded out options in the run up to Dyche leaving and were told no, or not until next season, or yes but with outrageous demands…
Moyes is here. He should be able to quietly get on with things. The squad is very poor, but in my opinion, not as bad as the league table suggests.
Watching the Peterborough game, we lacked confidence and fluidity. Confidence comes from winning. I don’t see us going down, so it’s a case of building foundations, putting a plan into action and us getting behind the team.
78 Posted 12/01/2025 at 12:56:25
79 Posted 12/01/2025 at 12:56:33
80 Posted 12/01/2025 at 13:12:18
On a side note Eric#64 I actually went out with Cherie Lunghi a few times in the late 80’s, thanks for sparking the memories!
81 Posted 12/01/2025 at 13:20:53
So you wouldn't want Coleman - the club captain and player that Moyes brought to the club to support him !
Are you really serious - what exactly would you want Coleman to do or say ?
82 Posted 12/01/2025 at 13:21:28
When we go through a change in manager the first reaction may be one of disbelief or non-reality. It may be common to think that this isn’t happening to Everton and with this kind of thinking we protect ourselves emotionally and psychologically.
Stage 2 – Anger
Once we realize the news that Moyes is the new manager is real and are no longer in denial, we may become emotionally upset and angry. While it is a bitter pill to swallow, we react out of a perception that this is the way it’s going to be and something is very wrong.
Stage 3 – Bargaining
Anger can only last so long until we are emotionally spent by it. Anger tends to consume a lot of valuable energy, so we move towards making bargains with ourselves or with a higher power. By now, we’ve had time to think things through and are willing to compromise.
Stage 4 – Depression
For some, depressive feelings will come early; for others they will evolve once it’s understood that bargaining won’t get you the hotshot manager you want. Depression may also come about due to the negative energy on ToffeeWeb.
Stage 5 – Acceptance
People will experience acceptance in different ways and varying times. Some will accept things as they are early on and others will not accept the new reality until they’ve exhausted these options. Acceptance means that the situation is real and learning to live with it or through it is a must.
Stage 6 – Meaning
This stage may be particularly challenging for people to experience. What meaning can come from Moyes appointment? What good can come out of the current situation? Can Moyes encourage people to reach out to each other and deepen their relationships? Can he re-awaken their spirituality?
Haha
83 Posted 12/01/2025 at 15:51:48
Is Moyes the best manager in the world? Nope. Is he the best option we could reasonably attract at short notice given the current situation with squad, finances and mid-season timing? I think that's a much closer call and could well be yes.
If you add in 'Is he the best manager who can slot straight in and understand the club's constraints and operate within them', then it's emphatic. For my money, he's the best man for the current job (ie, keep us up, restore a stable platform that has us starting to glance upwards rather than anxiously behind... without spending a fortune).
I know it's fashionable in the Musk, Trump,Tory 'alternative facts' world to believe all sorts of demonstrable bullshit, but the reality is that Everton today are not the team that spawned folkloric terrace songs and were captured in grainy photos.
We are still a sizeable club with a devoted fanbase (and a great new stadium), but we have not come close to a real challenging side since the late '80s (which I was lucky enough to be alive and aware to witness) and have been largely abject on the pitch and bankrupt in the boardroom for most of the intervening ~40 years, certainly in the entirety of the modern Premier League post-92 era.
Winning the Premier League is incredibly hard these days, and each season it's usually just two or three with a feasible chance. Instead, the modern Premier League world is all about the top 8 teams who are challenging for European slots and domestic trophies... and the only manager in the last 4 decades to get the club remotely close to these echelons, with any sort of frequency at least, is the man who's now back in the hot seat.
You can of course decry the quality of football that was served up much of the time, and that does matter, but not as much as results. Points get places, get trophies, get cash that you can use to improve your squad. Unless you're at Spurs, there's no prizes for attractive football that loses.
I'd love Everton to play 'School of Science' football, but on balance, I'd much prefer we were winning ugly whilst competing for European football and not worrying about relegation each May. Not saying Moyes guarantees that, but he did it for us before and he also got West Ham into Europe and oversaw their first trophy in the Premier League era.
If we stay up and get a version of The Peoples Club Mk II, with similar results, then the carping may ease off and we should have some reason to be cheerful once again.
If however, he makes no meaningful progress, then he'll be given short shrift by new, less patient, owners and the whingers will get what they want – hopefully someone who'll be able to do better than the last 10-12 chaps who've stood on the Goodison touchline since Moyes left and failed to emulate his results.
84 Posted 12/01/2025 at 15:52:55
Fair point. I think it was the length of contract and the probability of another payoff that looks expensive. But as you might say, he might surprise us.
85 Posted 12/01/2025 at 16:08:47
If that does not happen, let's not lose sight of how TFG have operated at Roma. He will be shown the door early in his tenure.
The compensation would not buy us ery much in today's market and they, I'm sure, would be ruthless.
86 Posted 12/01/2025 at 17:00:37
One of my best mates is a Chelsea season ticket holder of 40+ years, yes, back in the eighties when they were really awful at times and when the Bridge was an absolute shithole.
A very knowledgeable observer of the game, he was unrelenting in his criticism of Potter when mooted for Everton. Indeed, he's very happy to see Potter at the Happy Hammers.
Regardless of whether Potter works out at West Ham, I'd say it was too much of a risk for Everton to hire him, and as it stands, we were late to the party on Potter anyway.
87 Posted 12/01/2025 at 17:14:51
I remember playing at West Ham ot long before the lockdown and talking to a West Ham fan who was just as pleased about them getting Moyes as Evertonians were about getting Ancelotti.
I've always been critical about Moyes because of his record in cup competitions, but at least he has finally delivered silverware, and probably because he started taking the cups more seriously.
Moyes often used to flog dead horses, because it was rare for him to have a big squad. Hopefully he can get a tune out of our current squad because we have been playing like dead horses, for 13 months now, except for those seven beautiful days last April
88 Posted 12/01/2025 at 18:45:40
It may be seen as a safe option in order to retain our Premier League status, but thereafter, TFG would want Everton to kick on, improve and challenge for trophies if they are serious about their project. Whether Moyes is the manager to oversee that, only results will tell.
89 Posted 12/01/2025 at 19:38:50
Moyes is a good, extremely experienced manager who is a significant improvement over Dyche. Moyes has a much better record than any of the apparent alternatives. Potter's success at Brighton appears to mostly be myth. Thomas Frank seems like a good dude but the actual results and football are questionable.
Moyes Mk 1 delivered the best period in recent history... not flawless and frustratingly conservative but still much better than anything we have seen of late. The exit was untidy but not worth the vitriol – he left for a much bigger opportunity and needed to keep it quiet.
He came back for Baines and Fellaini... that seems to be entirely natural to me. It's professional football and he no longer owed us anything... not trying to buy Baines because he used to manage us would be negligent and on par with the entirely pointless exercise of not celebrating scoring against your old club.
For me, it's welcome back, Moyes – I hope you can work some magic
90 Posted 12/01/2025 at 19:55:10
91 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:04:07
I’ll give the man a chance but don’t have much expectations.
92 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:24:42
93 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:32:38
I was thinking about you before Andy, just a few minutes after I drove down Blackstone St, right up to the magnificent looking Bramley Moore.
I was thinking of offering Stefan and his daughter a couple of tickets, and because I’ve already offered one to Martin, I was wondering if you was going to be getting over to Goodison, before she closes her doors for good?
A ticket awaits Andy, but let us know maté because there’s not that many games left💙
94 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:34:18
I sincerely hope the crowd are chanting Davey Moyes name on 90+ minutes when he hopefully opens his second stint as Everton manager with a victory over Villa.
95 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:45:50
He is definitely not my choice but 'IF' he keeps us up I will be happy.
(And I know that is a big IF because I'm not confident he will).
But I think we should all give him a second chance and the best reception we can. For the team if nothing else!
96 Posted 12/01/2025 at 20:53:44
"He couldn’t have got a nicer or warmer exit"
Every now and again I've seen some posters try to suggest that Moyes send off was merely a case of polite applause and I often wondered if that was accurate or merely sour grapes on their part.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
97 Posted 12/01/2025 at 21:11:52
98 Posted 12/01/2025 at 21:18:20
I much prefer the more knowledgeable and defiant Evertonians, I can still remember from my childhood, throwing cushions at the players, if they never performed!
99 Posted 12/01/2025 at 21:31:22
4-5-1 ad nauseum.
100 Posted 12/01/2025 at 21:53:29
While very calm, my emotions towards Everton, are on a rollercoaster and even though I’ve had no real desire to read anything but ToffeeWeb, my thoughts are that without any money, Moyes is inheriting a very difficult job.
101 Posted 12/01/2025 at 22:05:37
A bit of pace on both flanks and we are a different team I think Tony.
102 Posted 12/01/2025 at 22:33:05
103 Posted 13/01/2025 at 01:40:12
I remember at the time Chairman Bill said he knew and that Moyes offered to resign but he refused to accept it.
He honoured his contract (who does that these days? Especially in football) and went to work for a bigger and better company (who WOULDN'T want to do that?).
Mike #80, you should have given her a call and told her to put her CV in, she'd have been a more popular choice!
104 Posted 13/01/2025 at 01:49:04
105 Posted 13/01/2025 at 07:06:23
That's simply not true. The bit about Moyes offering to resign is correct but Blue Bill never stated that he knew Moyes was off to United.
It always strikes me as peculiar that apparently although the "dogs in the street" knew, no-one ever thought to post that information on ToffeeWeb at the time.
106 Posted 13/01/2025 at 07:31:50
Moyes to ManU was nailed on for a couple of years as far as I was concerned back then - in fact I tried to put money on it at least 2 years prior. However, his stalking of Baines and Fellaini was pretty low key and unwelcome I agree.
Lets hope he hits the ground running despite the challenge he has with the squad he inherits, but the individuals and the sum of the parts is definitely better than we have had to endure for the last few months.
Good luck DM, I say - you're going to need it. This is one Blue right behind you.
107 Posted 13/01/2025 at 07:40:58
But he was the last Manager of the School of Science and maintained it's methods, though he allowed the parasitefication of it by Bill, who used It as patronage for his self serving regime.It all contributed to need to sell the Club. Though Bill was determined to stay in there, using someone's else's money has he had always had done.
I have always felt that is was the fundamentals of the School of Science that has kept Everton in the Premiership's through the thick and thin of the money and money run done years. Of course heavily laiden down by self serving paracites.I always was confident that Everton would not get relegated.
Being Professional business Managers the TFG group in their due diligence and analysis would have aimed to identified the positive fundamentals of the Club. I am sure they have come across the fundamentals of the School of Science. I have always hoped they would, because I believe with Professional Management were measurement and accountability is applied that the School of Science would come to the fore front and flourish once more.
But I did not expect this approach by the TFG.To bring back Moyes to develop it and refind it. I can only hope that measurement and accountability are fully applied to the system to halt the parasites that still exist within the Everton Structure.They will be glad that Moyes is appointed, but how will they react to a longer in the tooth Moyes whose remit is to apply measurement and accountability?
108 Posted 13/01/2025 at 07:48:15
"in fact I tried to put money on it at least 2 years prior."
What prevented you?
109 Posted 13/01/2025 at 07:48:21
He was Man Utd's manager. Trying to secure players that he rated and trusted. Baines would have ended up a superstar with them, by the way. He was one of the best I've seen and so underrated outside of Evertonians.
We look back on some of his signings and think he did very well for the money. Well that means there's a set of supporters somewhere who think he ripped them off.
I'll happily take a scenario where it's Everton who secure the players we need at the price we want to pay. So I can't criticise the flip side of that.
110 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:10:15
111 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:12:18
“It really isn't necessary to despair of supporters just because they disagree with you.”
Personally, I'm also, a bit taken aback by the anti-Moyes vitriol since the appointment. A very, very devoted blue I know and respect is livid about the appointment and he wanted Dyche out asap.
My view is that I wanted Dyche out and was counting the minutes. I was frustrated that he wasn't gone as soon as the final whistle blew at Bournemouth and felt elated when I saw the news in the bar at the Baltic hotel when I arrived.
Would I choose Moyes? No, I don't believe in going back, as in HK2 and HK3… But Moyes is a step up from Dyche and I feel much better about Everton now than I did last Wednesday.
UTFT
112 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:18:11
All this reminds me of a Gary Larsson cartoon:
Vampires Everywhere
A guy was screaming at people who were passing by, that "Vampires are here and they are taking over the World". No one was taking any notice of him.
To the side of the cartoon, two guys are carrying a large mirror. Of all the people on the street, the only one who was reflected in it, was the guy warning everyone about the Vampires.
Brilliant cartoon and so prophetic, given the times we live in.
113 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:22:22
I'm not really a betting person but back then I wandered in to a couple of betting shops and they could not find any odds for that so moved on.
114 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:23:26
Moyes won universal support throughout football when he stood firm and rejected Man City's attempt to treat us with utter contempt by just "taking" Joleon Lescott.
And nobody would have been too upset if he had come in for the best left-back in the country if he came back with a fair offer. He didn't. He used his inside knowledge of our deep financial turmoil by trying to impress his new Manc fans looking for a bog-off deal for Fellaini and Baines.
The glass ceiling merchant had turned into Billy Big Bollocks as soon as the boot was on the other foot and he believed he had "made it"!
I think this myth about Evertonians feeling betrayed when he decided to join Man Utd needs to be exploded too. As you can see on these pages, many, many were glad to see the back of him and were not arsed. The others gave him a tremendous send off wishing him all the best.
115 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:51:01
Pretty much my view also, Mark. Not the best — but better.
116 Posted 13/01/2025 at 08:58:57
Some older players on loan like Al Shaawary? Or their full back Celik?
117 Posted 13/01/2025 at 09:11:40
I'd love to get Dovbyk but he is one of their most saleable assets. Their superstars are Pelligrini, Soulé and Dybala.
They will want to hold onto them but maybe a player they thought would be a star but hasn't quite worked out, like Le Feé for example. Of maybe Cristante fancies a shot at the PL? Though he is a starter for them.
118 Posted 13/01/2025 at 09:17:25
Another dead-loss limited manager that Everton seem to be good at hiring.
We've nearly had the full set: Allardyce, Dyche… and now Moyes.
119 Posted 13/01/2025 at 09:21:35
I wasn't insulted. Moyes was trying to acquire players he trusted and get the best deal for his new owners and club. It's like him going to West Ham now and offering a fortune to them for players like Bowen. If he's after Bowen, I imagine he'll try to bring the price down instead of going, “Okay, here's £60M.
The only issue I see is staying within PSR as I imagine most clubs will see Everton coming and think “new owners, new money” and the whole merry-go-round starts again.
Just a quick addition re Moyes’s appointment. Yes, it might not seem overly exciting... but as I posted on a different thread, this is a new era, new owners, new manager, new stadium on the way. We’ve got to give everything a chance.
The previous managerial incumbents have mostly had their hands tied behind their backs, and whilst the football has been mostly dire, it's mostly been done under the Moshiri era.
I hope the majority embrace the new era.
120 Posted 13/01/2025 at 09:32:59
As things stand, we need to get right behind the team, including the manager, to get ourselves out of the perilous situation we are in.
My initial thoughts were we should make our displeasure known but I realise that it would be totally counter-productive given our situation.
121 Posted 13/01/2025 at 10:17:08
Hopefully his relationship with Baines and Coleman can help form a strong leadership team that the players buy into,
122 Posted 13/01/2025 at 10:45:43
To be honest mate. I don't understand how you don't understand.
Moyes, using his inside knowledge of our players contracts and desperate financial situation offered 28m quid for Fellaini AND the best left back in England. Even pushover Everton (your club) described the offer as "Insulting and derisory". Moyes very publicly countered that by accusing your club of blocking their chances of enhancing their careers. I very, very, really use the C word but what a CUNT !!!
He was eventually forced to pay 27.5m (a fair price for Fellaini) which basically meant he was offering 0.5 million for Baines.
Baines (to his eternal credit) stayed loyal to Everton and did not agitate for a move. United were forced to look elswhere for a left back. They eventually had to pay 30m for Luke shaw. A player not fit to lace Baines's boots.
Everyone remotely connected to this club had every right to feel deeply insulted by the way he was prepared to put his foot on our heads when he thought we were drowning.
123 Posted 13/01/2025 at 10:56:01
It would have been unprofessional of Moyes to say "I like those players, but I couldn't do that to Everton" or "I'll make sure they get a few extra quid to help them out".
He tried to screw us because it was his job. None of us will complain if he screws another club and we get a player we want for a good price.
124 Posted 13/01/2025 at 10:56:13
If league position is the be all and end all then it could be argued that Allardyce in one season should have been in the frame, form an orderly queue in a telephone box all those that wanted Allardyce back.
Our American based supporters wouldn't hand in their guns in favour of a knife at a gunfight.
We have gone for supposedly a safe pair of hands what happens if he isn't that safe pair of hands we think he is.
Going back is like a good holiday you have a great time with a good crowd of people and go back the next year the same people aren't there it is peeing down for a fortnight it becomes the worst holiday you have had.
125 Posted 13/01/2025 at 11:18:43
I can accept that managers leave clubs and will try to take the better players with them. But Moyes did not need to insult our club.
He did not need to use his inside knowledge to "low ball" us to a degree which prompted his former pals to describe his bid as "Insulting and derisory".
And he did not need to try to shame us into letting them go on the cheap by telling the football world we were stunting their careers.
This man seems completely bereft of integrity. He once tried to ingratiate himself into the hearts of the football community by stating everyone in football should take a 20% pay cut. That would have cut a little more ice if he hadnt held the club over a barrel regarding his own contract. Or indeed, took a pay cut himself.
His recent declaration of not being interested in taking on a relegation battle sailed right out of the window as soon as TFG waved the readies.
Please don't draw me any further or get me on a roll Ernie. I have got to get my head into a place where I can really support this fella and recalling his past misdemeanours for the sake of debate is seriously hindering the process.
126 Posted 13/01/2025 at 11:21:36
With regards to any further reply, can I refer you to Ernie @ 123. I think his reply is better than anything I could come up with.
Colin, just saw your reply to Ernie and the last paragraph. Made me smile. Hope you get there. It's a tough one, I am not overly impressed with Moyes coming back and trying to put a positive spin on it and mostly failing. As I said to a friend of mine recently when asked who I would like if Dyche was sacked, I rather sarcastically said it might be good to have someone similar to Dyche rather than start on a completely different tangent as that would appeal to Dyche after his recent comment about all businesses should have some succession planning when the media asked about his own position.
127 Posted 13/01/2025 at 11:30:32
128 Posted 13/01/2025 at 11:45:11
We need positivity not the dour jock persona he usually portrays.
If he metiond knives to gunfights I won't be responsible for my actions
129 Posted 13/01/2025 at 13:10:38
130 Posted 13/01/2025 at 14:47:07
Moyes 'rumoured' behaviour in relation to his appointment at Man U doesn't stick to me! It's like expecting Wayne Rooney not to take his chances against us when playing for them...
I may be very angry that he left but I can't hold it against him for doing his best against us once he'd left. And he is a Blue through and through – Moyes is only ever a hired hand!
131 Posted 13/01/2025 at 14:50:50
132 Posted 13/01/2025 at 16:36:15
You never hear successful managers talking their team down Ben, they may talk the opposition up but never their own team down.
133 Posted 13/01/2025 at 16:56:41
FFS, he's here, whether you like it or not, so let's get behind him, eh? He wasn't my choice either but, if he does well, then my club, Everton, have done well.
So fuck off with your miserable diatribes and support the club. Am I the only one fed up with the negative shite on here? Christ on a bike….!
134 Posted 14/01/2025 at 10:30:33
published at 10:22 Greenwich Mean Time
10:22 GMT
Breaking
Following Eddie Howe's quotes on profit and sustainability, we are now hearing that all clubs are compliant with the Premier League rules for the period including the 2023-24 accounts.
135 Posted 14/01/2025 at 10:58:32
No, you're not the only one, Ray.
136 Posted 14/01/2025 at 11:04:02
137 Posted 14/01/2025 at 16:08:58
Sorry Brent, I was just getting a bit naffed off with the repetitive and constant moaning. One should remember to keep ones temper. 🤦🏼♂️
138 Posted 14/01/2025 at 16:20:35
139 Posted 14/01/2025 at 16:23:31
I'm totally in agreement with you. FFS, it's not as if TFG will be looking at TW and thinking, “Fuck me look at all the whinging on there, we better change the new manager prompto”.
What's done is done, there's no turning back, so whether you like it or not, you better get used to it! He wasn't my first choice either, but there's no point in crying over spilt milk!
140 Posted 31/01/2025 at 17:41:11
I was reading the article, and comments started from regular discourse to rehashing good old stories from BK's past. DM is not my ideal candidate, but always the person you will still find in line for our regularly vacated manager position.
He is ultimately a pretty good coach. All his teams do well defensively, but not so much offensively, enough to stay safe in the league. He is, unfortunately, the manager we deserve after so many years in the rut.
I could foresee him in charge for another 1-2 years. I do hope, for his success and ours, that he and plan to sunset his career into a more supportive role at the club and install a talented younger coach by the time his time ultimately ends, regardless of contract length.
The comments about Coleman's support make sense to me. Coleman has been a great servant since DM's time, and I don't recall anything negative between them. Could DM be more progressive and bring more youth to the team? Maybe. I don't have access to training, so I must judge his call based on the results.
We mainly fight to survive this season, but a good run might get us into the top half of the table. With 16 games left to play, we are only 11 points away from the top half.
141 Posted 07/02/2025 at 12:44:35
Fair enough but what we all wanted was to see the back of Dyche. He had done his job and kept us up but .
We needed a change and rather than have a "name" who we didn't know whether they would give us what we thought we needed or who would stay more than 5 minutes was unknown and remains so. That is why I thought Moyes was the right choice and I still think that.
Give the guy a real chance. He certainly has an affinity with the Club. Remember that he had to work with you know who and very little money as a result which is much the same as it is today.
He needs and deserves everyone to get behind him just the same as getting behind the current squad of players as they are not going to change between now and the end of the season.
142 Posted 07/02/2025 at 13:36:40
143 Posted 07/02/2025 at 14:38:30
144 Posted 07/02/2025 at 14:46:41
Agree with you there Colin, what I've been most amused about is that those that wanted him gone were the ones most upset that he went.
145 Posted 07/02/2025 at 15:22:19
Moyes made his statement about everyone in football taking a 20% pay cut way back in March 2012 and despite telling everyone on an almost daily basis that our club was seriously cash strapped. He himself most definitely didn't take one. Nor offer to.
He did however follow other EPL managers by volunteering to take a 30% temporary pay cut at West Ham. They did this to ease the financial burden on their clubs during the covid crisis.
On your next point 144.
I don't think any of the fans who were not arsed when Moyes left, were upset when he actually left. No matter how amusing you find the notion.
I think they were more upset when it was later revealed that he had been having secret talks with Fergie and Man United and knew he was jumping ship long before he cracked a light
146 Posted 07/02/2025 at 15:30:32
That said I am not against his return as I think given the challenge of this season and the rebuild in the summer he is as well qualified to move the club forward as any manager
147 Posted 08/02/2025 at 01:56:50
And if you do you would of course tell your current company that you're being head hunted by one of their main rivals and will be leaving as soon as your contract is finished.
Good luck with that 🤣
Personally I never look for another position while employed. No need to and I like a few months break between jobs anyway.
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1 Posted 11/01/2025 at 08:28:40
A lot of course, will hinge on how much we are allowed to spend and more importantly who we add, if anyone, to the current group. I am hoping Harrison gets sent back for starters, and Doucoure either has a new lease of life, or is condemned to the bench or beyond. We do have some good players but not enough to meet the demands of the Premiership.
Again, not my choice, but I will grudgingly support him in the hope of survival at the very least. Very rarely do second spells work, for either managers or players, let's hope he can buck that trend, and gladly prove me wrong !