Thiago torments languid Blues with impressive hat-trick

That might make the fixture doubtful and the team sheet put on the back burner for now, which could be to Everton's benefit but not the travelling fans of both teams!

I'm always in the minority here, being a born and bred Evertonian Yorkshire man.

Maybe Brentford's danger from long-throws has also come into Davey's thinking.

I'm also very pleased to see Dibling get another start.

So Muppet Moyes changes the back 4... bringing in Keane!!!

Why would we change a winning team?

Moyes just loves his square pegs. O'Brien at fuckin right-back again.

I can see Brentford getting another before half-time.

But we're really not playing well here as a team. Hopefully we can get to half-time without further damage and Moyes gives them the hairdryer.

What I still find odd, after all these years, is how people take the last performance and extrapolate... not just to the next game but to the end of the season and where we will finish in the table.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so sadly predictable -- that you can never predict what sort of a game they are going to play out in front of us.

What's that saying? "One game at a time." But clearly that's even too much for us some days...

But why would Keane know where the rest of the defence was and then give up on him after the pass is made, leaving it for Pickford who seems to be moaning about it before the ball is slotted home and makes no effort.

Moyes probably hasn't had much experience of the saying, "Don't change a winning team," but after a terrific first half against Forest, the midfield seem all at sea with two wingers and it seemed to take half-an-hour before they played anything to Dibling.

On another matter, if the ref saw a player deliberately push Pickford into the net at a corner and gave a free kick why was there no yellow?

Biggest sports league in the world and we don't have a right-back, it's criminal and disgusting.

But don't worry... none of this will be his fault.

This is why Everton have never flourished under this manager.

Why did Moyes move O'Brien from centre-back, ridiculous!

Keane is so slow.

Pathetic display all round.

We will get all the Moyes apologists shortly, claiming it's a weak squad, average players, players missing injured, or at Afcon etc, etc. But the manager is the biggest problem as far as I am concerned.

He never won a trophy in his first stint at the club and he sure as hell won't win anything second time around. The sooner he is gone, the better.

McNeil offered absolutely nothing first half. There was a huge hole behind Barry that was never filled. Dibling didn't offer much but, when he did get wide, there was no one in the center to cross too.

Garner is constantly over hyped after every competent performance but today had one of his regular sub-par games. The only positive was we kept trying, hence the consolation goals, but lack of composure and mental frailty destroyed us.

There is also a world class analytics & scouting network bearing fruit because the marketing manager/CEO said so.

This is good -- do not complain -- pay up and shut up. Listen to those in charge -- they know better than us stupid fans.

This could have been a draw. We too had good enough chances. What puzzles me is why did we not start Patterson for this game???

Added to which, the changes the manager made to the defence made it weaker.

It didn't really look like a club that's going to win the league in the next 5 years did it?

How silly must you feel? There are no excuses for getting smashed at home by Brentford. Especially when (according to your posts) this is a club that is preparing to win the Premier League title within 5 years!

Deluded.

O'Brien moved to right back when he has a blinder previously in the centre... and don't get me started on Tarkowski who I thought was responsible for 2 of their goals.

Cheers, Everton...oh and Rohl was shit as well.

From the start of the 2nd half, Beto looked through and I thought just hit it but in the usual manner it hit him and bounced away, Although with both him and Barry on together it seemed to give Beto a lot more room while Barry either went missing or took defenders with him and I suppose we have to equate that with both scoring.

But careless goals to give away, a corner into our 6-yard box and no central defender or keeper anywhere near it. For the second, I thought Thiago was offside from the pass that went to Schade. But the offside rules being what they are today, it probably meant he wasn't interfering with play as he hadn't touched it... but he soon did.

Just to finish, it might be worth trying Beto and Barry together and particularly if we are only going to play through Grealish while for the short time he was on Armstrong didn't look out of place.

Oh, and VAR and refs need to sort out what is and isn't handball and maybe they should be sat down and made to watch all penalties that have been given and a lot that haven't before being let out again.

I thought it was a mistake to bring Keane back to centre-back after O'Brien played so well against Forest, and he struggled against Thiago.

All of them looked tired, when we played most of the 90 minutes defending against Forest, it's taken its toll. Playing that way is draining and this group won't be able to play that way twice a week... simple.

If you have more of the ball, you use less energy. Brentford were stroking it round at will, that's why they looked fitter, their style is keep the ball, let us chase.

Get some players in the door, Everton, or we will drop away sharply, as others improve their squads in January.

You sound positively pleased Everton lost. It has made your day hasn't it?

What a fucking melon you are. Call yourself an Everton supporter. But of course you aren't are you Jamie?

Back in your hole, you troll.

Lower than a snake's belly.

Thiago had field-day against slow coach Keane, I put this down to Moyes's team selection and tactics.

We cannot repeat the mistakes of our poorly targeted Summer 2025 spending. 2 proven top-level full-backs and a reliable goal-scoring forward is the minimum required.

I'm afraid Moyes remains the biggest issue.

The only positive to come out of this game is that both our centre-forwards scored. Grealish, McNeil, Garner, Iroegbunam, Dibling, Rohl -- all had shockers.

Armstrong looked okay. When will Moyes realise that he should never ever play O'Brien again at right-back?

Oh how I laughed.

And you have to resort to name calling? How old are you?

I think it's you who's the moron and tosser not anybody else.

I can see many more home games like this as the season goes on because we try that attack but our defence is just too slow, Tarkowski, Keane, all great when balls are lobbed in high; move them about and they are like trees, zero movement in either.

O'Brien must never be right back at home, another trial that has run its course now.

We need players this month, we need Ndiaye, Dewsbury-Hall back and Branthwaite. But we need signings, we can't faff about here.

Keane played well but the defence v Forest should have started today. Rohl is shite. Dibling should be disguised and renamed Harrison Armstrong and sent to Preston instead of the only bright spark of today.

McNeil is slower than a glacier and should join Dyche at Forest and whoever scouted Barry needs his fucking eyes testing. We're too slow, too ponderous and too predictable. It works away from home but not at BMD.

This was Newcastle all over again - and after the Lord Mayor's Show.

Armstrong played 17 games for Preston, much fitter, and should start against Wolves ahead of Tim.

But Moyes is too conservative, and will leave Keane on, and we'll play so deep again, like today.

If the manager had picked the same team as midweek, we would have been able to handle Brentford's athleticism and physicality a lot better.

He should have learned from the Newcastle game.

The Premier League winning Man Utd team he took over, whilst admittedly on their way past their peak, also had these sorts of games. It's what he does.

Whether you are a Moyes fan or not we all need to stop expecting anything other than win some, lose some.

His tactics will always be skewed by his favourite players, hence Keane coming back and O'b moving to right back. It means we lose games like this, not because our squad is thin.

I actually think Moyes does better when he doesn't have options.

MK said in here somewhere that you never know what Everton team will turn up, but I predicted 1-3 here on my Super 6, not because I don't want us to win, but because I've seen this story play out for so many Moyes seasons and I want to win £200k!

Get back to Arne's interview when you've wiped the tears away.

We were awful, disjointed, poor shape, not showing for balls enough... so second best. What the fuck.

Harrison Armstrong looked mature beyond his years -- he's the real deal. That's it really…

Pickford, O'Brien, Branthwaite, Garner, Armstrong, Dewsbury-Hall, Ndiaye with quality additions over two windows and we'll be much better.

I would've included Dibling but he was woeful. As was Rohl.
But Armstrong is exciting.

Their centre-forward showed how weak our two are.
Dibling, Rohl, Tim, O'Neill, game just passes them all by, awful games today.

We knew we had a thin squad, today just proves how much work we have to do.

We should have already been active in the loan market. Trying to limp along and today we were horribly exposed.

Well, I haven't seen us play “great stuff“ for 30 years.

That said, I'm not sure what Rohl is yet either. When I've seen him, he just strikes me as a loose cannon. I can't tell you what his strengths are... is he quick, strong? Can he pass, shoot?

Not sure he's any of those really.

How would they get around all our problems and beat 'big athletic sides' as Brentford and Newcastle have been described by people on this forum?

20 games in and we are 3 points off of 5th place in the most competitive league in the world. But Moyes is the problem? Why, because he's not a magician?

We have now been twatted 3 times at home. Moyes will always be Moyes -- don't expect anything else.

Instead of Moyes-bashing, why not make your recommendations for his replacement instead?

The last time you were on that rant, you suggested Thomas Frank and we see how that's going for Spurs. Or as others suggested Maresca, Iriola, Glasner... who are all struggling.

Last week, Moyes was being praised for getting the best out of a very depleted squad. Rather than looking for scapegoats, it would be better to make positive suggestions.

I was hoping second half would be different after the woeful first half. We could have and should have been three-down at half-time.

I feel for Jake. He plays outstanding at centre-back and gets moved to right-back again ridiculous decision. We are missing quality ballers but even so just keep it tidy and tight.

Too many too mention how bad they were but credit to Grealish, Beto and Armstrong.

Surely they are not at the club... or are they?

That's my choice. Nobody is forcing me to do that. I have constantly shown my support for Everton over the course of my life. So you've got that one wrong (again).

I mean, fucking hell, son - you don't just have a disagreement with someone, you fucking go all in!

At the end of the day, I just had a difference of opinion from you, yet you have personally attacked me by telling lies about what I have said and what I haven't said, called me names, and now even accusing me of supporting fucking Liverpool! I'd hate to see how you treat your enemies.

I think that says a lot about you as a person -- and none of it is good.

I'm not going to communicate with you after this -- I've said what I needed to said. I'm not lowering myself to name calling and suggesting you support a different team. Pathetic and quite frankly childish and immature from someone who's supposed to be a part of the "older generation".

My god, I wonder what your kids are like -- no, don't go there, because I don't want to know.

Some clubs recruit players we've never heard of and then play them until they become household names.

Moyes isn't that manager, but we'll be safe.

I have to agree with Les, I've rarely witnessed great football at Goodison in over 30 years, approaching 40.

And I'm with Mark. We've brought Harrison Armstrong back from loan. Let's use him.

Giving Coleman a charity contract has totally affected our full-back recruitment and releasing Calvert-Lewin and buying Barry were obvious mistakes that should be looked into. Those decisions have weakened us and cost us tens of millions.

One good thing today was both strikers scoring, which may help us unload them.

Other than Dewsbury-Hall, it is difficult to defend last summer's spending.

O'Brien was good, but has limitations playing out of position.

On the positive front, Armstrong was very good when he came on.

Patterson should have been left at right-back, Dibling would have had support. Tarkowski and O'Brien should have been left as the centre-back pairing. Two assists or not, Grealish was not great today. Moyes should have started the XI that won at Forest.

I'm very pissed-off. I don't agree with the Abrahams' and Steve Brown, but I respect their perspectives. Results and performances like today's validate their point of view. Brentford are tough, but we made it very easy for them, and that was entirely on the team selection.

We are still only 3 points off 5th. Perspective.

The worse Tarkowski plays, the greater the call for Keane to be axed.

Try watching the first two goals. The ones that killed us.

I think you'll find X marks the spot.

I don't agree with Steve at times, but he's a good man, a solid fan, and he'll stand by and argue his opinions.

Bad game. In my opinion, it was on David Moyes. But he's got plenty of credit in the bank from the past 12 months. Hopefully it gets put right on Wednesday.

Armstrong offered more in 10 minutes. I can't understand that Moyes is still thinking of sending him back to Preston, he has to start against Wolves.

I don't claim to be an armchair expert but, when doing the analysis of the game against Forest in midweek, Danny Murphy (who I'm not a fan of) singled out the Tarkowski - O'Brien partnership as outstanding, and Moyes brings back Keane today?

That's what I find baffling; if it's not broken, don't fix it?

I'd be reluctant to give Moyes and this transfer team any money to spend on new players as only Dewsbury-Hall has been a success.

l'm absolutely dreading the Wolves & Sunderland games; both will smell blood.

Not much to say on that except we lost to a better side. I would also pick Harrison Armstrong over Tim Iroegbunam in the next fixture. He was an immediate upgrade when he came on. He has strength, pace and vision.

We should be sending Tim back to Preston.

What else can we do but to extrapolate to another win: at home, against Brentford? Sometimes, we allow ourselves to go crazy and attempt to extrapolate to 3 consecutive wins! (Once a year at best!)

Totally agree with Annika #22. We've never won anything with Moyes, and never will. He has no motivational skills -- how can he not raise the team to at least compete with a team who had less time to rest between games, are below Everton in the league, terrible away form, etc.

Please leave our club, Moyes.

Another point is why does this club not understand the importance of momentum? We constantly slowed play down after we clawed a goal back. We constantly refused to cross when the opportunity arose.

We should have just pumped the ball into the Brentford box to keep the pressure up.

Awful performance, down to a man. Simply shocking. Why is it each time we have an opportunity to push on, nearer the top half, reality bites?

We need to stop the losing at home, so hopefully Wolves mid-week will allow that.

Watch the post-match highlights on the way home from the match:

For the first goal, Tarkowski pushed too high out of defence and arguably O'Brien got rolleed too easily, but was left exposed with two forwards.

For the second goal, the striker gets between Tarkowski and Barry too easily. Pickford had no chance.

I'll judge an Everton side under TFG when we have had a couple of more transfer windows, perhaps. Let's see what the squad looks like in 2027-28 season. There is still quite a churn in players in and out. Those that'll also need phasing out.

We should be looking to create the spin of our team going forward with the likes of Branthwaite, Armstrong, Barry etc.
We'll need to build a deep squad and that won't happen overnight. Until then, we'll have bumps along the way.

My expectations of this season are that it's a transitional one, adjusting to a new stadium, new recruitment team. A 10th-place finish is respectable. We build on this next season, full-back, a forward, inject pace in the side whilst also the likes of Dibling, Rohl and Barry have a season behind them and therefore will improve.

There is no quick fix as things stand.

McNeil was awful, get rid.

Rohl is astonishingly bad -- he's not done anything in any of the games he's played.

If players need motivating to not telegraph it to an attacker, or lose their man at a corner, then a change in manager isn't going to make these better players.

Tarkowski and Co had a shocker at the back, but the midfield of McNeil, Dibling, Rohl, and Iroegbunam didn't exactly help either.

Not winning a trophy first time around has nothing to do with an abject display from a depleted squad.

Shit happens.

Without the Afcon taking place, maybe the result of today would be different, but it is what it is, the message is that one, in general terms. There is no magic after the disaster of the last few years from the board.

The next two or three windows will give us a better idea of our potential and of the capacity of TFG. So they also have to deliver.

From my point of view, if we do not bring a striker and two full-backs, we'll be condemned to mid-table finishes.

I feel for Aznou getting 0 game time after we've paid for him. It sucks thinking how awfull he must be seeing how the one who always plays in front of him offers so little going forward in a game where nowadays it's key to have good offensive atributes, bar defending.

Also, I will never understand why Pickford for every corner stays on the goal line. It surprises me quite a lot.

It's a luxury we cant afford.

Three games in 9 days were really too many with this depleted squad, and I'm not making excuses for Moyes, just stating the facts.

I'm surprised and happy that we have accumulated 28 points so far. The results are much better than the performances so far, especially at Bramley-Moore Dock. Have we played one really outstanding performance there since we moved in?

I think there will be more disappointing games to come this season and not just in the three games to come but later in the season.

I might think differently if we make some much-needed moves in the January window; otherwise, just be grateful we've got those 28 points -- they should alleviate any worries about another relegation fight.

I thought of John, the Brentford fan who occasionally comes onto ToffeeWeb, when I left the ground today. John was writing how he had been to around 70 grounds, with a lot of them being in the lower leagues, so I'm sure he enjoyed watching his team slowly tear us apart in such a brilliant arena today.

You deserved that, John. I didn't think we started badly but, from the minute our out-of-position right-back gave it to Tarkowski, who didn't really look like he wanted the ball, and then stupidly gave it away by trying to be too clever, we got worse and worse. I honestly don't even think your team had to really work that hard for your victory.

I keep reading that David Moyes improves players (I honestly don't want to go down the manager route tonight) but the kid Dibling looked lost. He didn't know if he was coming or going, was scared to go and press. His partner at right-back prefers to defend deep, and when he did get the ball in forward areas, his options were very, very limited because of the lack of support.

I thought Dibling had to go off though because you can't legislate for such a completely disinterested display. I'd have also played with two up front in the second half, just to try and wake the crowd up.

Looking back, I think the game was already lost by half-time, and we simply never had the players on the pitch to rectify this.

Enjoy your trip home, Brentford John, and good luck for the rest of the season, mate.

We also reverted back to the fake press. You know, you can see where Brentford are going to pass it, and Everton, on a 3-second delay, then jog out over when the ball has already gone.

All ifs and maybes of course... but fuck me. Everton that.

I watched Dibling during the warm-up. He seemed overawed to me, even warming up. I didn't see him speak to another player.

He played like a rabbit in headlights today. I've heard he is a quiet guy but I can only see him struggling in home games. He seems frightened to run at players and looks better when players are tight to him and he can manoeuvre the ball around them.

If he has to beat the player, he cuts back and plays it backwards. Rohl looked terrible. Tarkowski was back to playing like a clown. At least Beto put in a shift but that's such a low bar. Armstrong was the one positive, I thought.

Regarding Moyes, ask West Ham whether they'd swap. He is very conservative but he'll steady the ship until we can recruit some decent forwards and a full-back. We need Dewsbury-Hall, Branthwaite and Ndiaye back sharpish.

And so it panned out... Brentford battered us TBH.

Not convinced either we would have fared any better with the line-up that beat Forest.

We lost, and dropped a few places, because the Premier League is so tight, but hopefully we can beat Wolves and get some more points on the board. This should also give the players a little bit of much--needed confidence that seems missing in our home games, for our very important cup game next Saturday afternoon.

Rohl not much better: 7 passes in 45 minutes.

If there is anything to take from this game, Armstrong looked good enough to start on Wednesday at #10.

Against Arsenal, just outclassed. The rest? Such ineffective defending -- schoolboy in fact -- we've had 3 hammerings. In all 3 losses, goals conceded from the same ball in, to the same areas, and our centre-backs and keeper gone missing.

Good teams demand more and get it, or you're out; average teams play like Everton.

Not lucky enough... and then our players make over-confidence errors. Not completely Moyes's fault.

He played with confidence, control and positivity that our other midfielders lacked today.

But will he? Surprised he even got on today knowing how stubborn our manager can be.

I would definitely start him on Wednesday.

Brentford had so much energy in their play, we simply couldn't cope. I hope to fuck we don't sign Rohl. I can see why his host club want to offload him.

But these results will happen, it just means we need the 3 points against Wolves, who will be up for it after their first win.

Grealish was coming deep and looking to get on the ball so he could possibly be an option as a playmaker. He's by far our most skillful and intelligent player.

How does the Seamus song go... 60,000, 60,000 grand etc. I'd imagine Saints fans are singing £40 mill, £40 mill, Tyler Dibling...

If you lack pace, which we plainly do, it's easier to hold your ground over 10 feet than 25, as the attacker has less time to accelerate. But if Tarkowski and Co push up, they're going to lose a foot race with the extra ground to cover versus quick counter-attackers.

If you have guys who are really comfortable on the ball, like Baresi, then you can pass the ball around and avoid getting into trouble. But our defenders are not comfortable on the ball, so we can't do that either. Therefore, anyone with fast wingers or counter-attacks is going to hammer us.

You might as well give the sitting role to Garner until the boys are back from Afcon because frankly Iroegbunam doesn't do that job well anyway, he goes walkabout too much and has zero spatial awareness.

Garner and Armstrong on Wednesday night with Grealish in the middle behind Barry or Beto and I suppose you'd have to give Dibling another run out right and McNeil left and just tell the fuckers to fire crosses in and not worry about beating men.

Brentford were better in every department and we were awful.
It's the usual pattern of results -- lose a couple, draw one, win one and lose one.

No consistency at all.

We had two centre-forwards on the pitch in the second half, and at times when Brentford were attacking, the both of them were still coming back (not to defend, because the ball was ahead of them) very, very deep at the same time.

It's bad enough watching our only centre-forward coming back so deep on the wrong side of the ball, so to see the both of them doing it was both frustrating and also very perplexing.

He does this for a reason: he obviously thinks certain players are better than others. But when you're a player in the squad and you see this happening, then the phrase you might use, along with a few expletives, would possibly be: "consistently inconsistent", Tony!

McNeil, anonymous; Dibling, totally ineffective; Iroegbunam, combative and mobile in the first half, but totally clueless going forward in both halves. Rohl added nothing, but Armstrong seemed to show the required urgency to go forward when he came on.

Has there ever been a Premier League team that has finished a season without a goal or an assist from a full-back? O'Brien, who doesn't claim to be a full-back, won't go near the 6-yard area, and Mykolenko must have set a world record by now in crosses that go straight to the nearest opposition player.

It must be nice to be captain; you can screw up a pass so badly that the opposition score, then run up to and scream at the player your pass was never going to reach.

I thought Dibling and McNeil did enough to keep their places.

If Keane is fit, he plays; he has been our best defender this season so I wasn't too bothered about O'Brien moving to full-back.

We started reasonable brightly until Tarkowski gave the ball to their midfielder who still had to cross and the finish from Igor took the wind out of us. It's rare we have a Plan B, so it was no surprise we then struggled for the rest of the game.

Damsgaard ran the game from the middle, picking up little pockets of space and using the ball well. Their better movement off the ball caused us issues. At half-time, Moyes surprised me by playing with 2 strikers. I was at least hoping for someone to get closer to Damsgaard but it never happened.

I could be wrong but Pickford should be punching away that corner for their 2nd. Another free header, 3 yards out from goal.

Over the last 5 years, they have had Watkins, Mbeumo, Wissa, Django, Maupay, Toney, Schade and Thiago.

We have had Calvert-Lewin, Beto, Barry and Maupay. Our scouting network needs binning off just on that list alone.

Dibling was in no-man's land during the first half and either the manager or senior players needed to tell him to push onto their full-back or sit deeper. This left McNeil chasing shadows.

I agree regarding Armstrong starting the next game. The usual issues will still be there. Both full-backs offer nothing going forward and our strikers are more like 400m runners instead of footballers.

Having watched Wolves over the holidays, we will have our work cut out getting 3 points off them.

We are so inconsistent, at least we have a few points on the board this season.

Dibling is really struggling and seems to have lost confidence. He needs to be left out of the team for a while. Rohl also is struggling and looks out of his depth in the Premier League.

The one highlight was Armstrong who would have been our best player had he been on from the start, and should be picked from now on.

Dibling -- not good enough
Rohl -- not good enough
Iroegbunam -- not good enough
Barry -- not good enough
McNeil -- no longer good enough (He beat his man on the half-way, his man had a ciggie and a conversation with his mate and still got to the ball first)
Beto - not good enough but, by God, at least he tries.
Keane - a solid centre-back from the 90s but not as good as O'Brien who should've kept his place since Forest.

Moyes? Why the fuck change a winning team? O'Brien is an outstanding centre-back -- play him there! Patterson could've handled the right -- they didn't shred us there but through the middle.

Finally - the crowd. It was flat as a fucking pancake from the start. They fucked up on the siren, going too early and having to repeat 3 times until the team were ready to come out, by which time the crowd had quietened and the Brentford fans were taking the piss.

Our seating needs to be reallocated to get the “Gwladys Street” together in the South Stand. It's all too dispersed and we're losing the Wall of Sound advantage.

We need Branthwaite, Ndiaye, Dewsbury-Hall, a right-back, Gana or a new defensive anchoring midfielder, and a striker, in order to be a decent XI. Then we need to double it to be a challenging squad.

Today was shite, but it's part of the journey. UTFT

We got out-worked all over the pitch. No excuse, no justification for the general lack of intensity in front of the home fans. Only Beto and Grealish fully showed up.

We have to get squad numbers up. There again, I have to question the scouting system at our football club.

They were better than us in every position.

A shocking decision to move Jake O'Briento right-back where he was, quite frankly, poor. That is the side of Moyes that frustrates and annoys. I notice that only one poster on here made a somewhat inept attempt to defend this switch against a tide and he has not come back on.

Essentially, simply compare the performance of our centre-backs today to the performance at Forest. Not rocket science, is it really?

Latest odds on Moyes stubbornly persisting with Tarkowski & Keane?

Also, the decision to put McNeil behind the striker was woeful. And we also worryingly saw a completely different Garner today.

On the brighter side, two more assists for Jack; an encouraging goal each for the strikers; Harrison Armstrong has to start on Wednesday and McNeil back to his best position on the bench.

That nice Brentford fella John had a good day out; and, erm, sheepishly, I got Thiago in my FPL team.

The last kick of the game when Pickford slammed the ball into Keane simply summed up everything. A close second was Rohl's lazy couldn't give a shit pitiful 'pass' for their fourth.

Weird moment: Thiago hugging Beto after his goal was confirmed.

Naturally, others might have a different view on things. In fact, reading this thread, that would be just about everyone else who posted an opinion.

They played up the pitch and we got what we deserved.

McNeil at No 10, I can understand.

Who would you have played at right-back and No 10?

Ian, Patterson should've played at right-back with O'Brien and Tarkowski as centre-backs. McNeil left, Dibling right and Grealish at No 10.

But with hindsight, Ian Snodin was behind me in the stands and should have replaced McNeil after 5 minutes.

That and O'Brien at right-back and Patterson on the bench...
what a joke.

No one can blame you then if you lose.

Which doesn't alter the fact that Moyes is no more than an average manager. All the managers you have mentioned as struggling are, in my opinion, streets ahead of Moyes. Glasner has won something with Palace, Moyes has won nothing with Everton, despite a lot more years of trying.

Moyes is and always will be a defensive manager. Credit to him for digging us out of the hole Dyche had dropped us into. Now get rid and get a more innovative manager in.

So, when teams like Brentford play through us, he is unable to make in-game changes to counter it. He rigidly sticks with Plan A. Does he even have a Plan B?

Someone like Emery at Villa, even the Sunderland manager, make tactical tweaks if their preferred system isn't working. Moyes just swaps players but the system remains the same. Even when it's clearly not working.

It would be nice to think Moyes could try something different but he is too much of a pragmatist. It doesn't matter how many quality players we bring in because, with Moyes in charge, we will never be anything other than a mid-table team.

So, at the end of this season, it would be thanks for keeping us up, now we want someone better.

We absolutely have to stop playing a 6ft-6in centre-back at right-back. So for the love of God, go and buy a fucking right-back, you utter, uttter twats!!!

My 10-year-old could manage this shit show better than this. Shameful. Shameful.

Pickford had to fight to get free of Ajer and the header was bulleted. I'd definitely blame the outfield players for not even making it uncomfortable for Collins to get to the ball.

Keane in and O'Brien back to right-back didn't account for how poor the overall performance was. Too often in possession, it was the wrong player on the ball at the wrong time.

Garner seemed to be too far from the action areas to make any sort of real contribution in the first half and the start of the second. He came into it more later on but seemed well below his normal level of influence. I am worried he's not entirely sure where his future lies.

Shortly after Beto's decent header, Grealish, Garner and Mykolenko all chose to pass the buck rather than putting in a cross when both Beto and Barry were well positioned in their area. That lack of bold decisiveness seemed to plague us all game.

I think Merlin Rohl fluffed attempts to cross with both his right and left feet. He looked completely unsure of what he should be doing.

Moyes has a record of getting Everton and West Ham into Europe. We have not had European football since 2017. I think it's ridiculous that people are talking about new managers when we're having our best season since Ancelotti was at the club.

Players back from Afcon and a couple new signings and I have no doubts that we will snag a European place.

When we're there, that is the time to talk about a manager to take us to the next level. People are jumping the gun.

We've been fighting relegation for years. We could easily become like West Ham if we bring in a new manager because we suddenly think we should be winning trophies and we're too big for Moyes.

I'm a fan of his, but what is that selection about? O'Brien is not a right-back, and Mykolenko is up there as one of the worst attacking threats from full-back in the Premier League.

Everybody knows it, so any opposition don't have to worry about getting their wingers to come back too much, hence getting smashed on the break at home all the time. That Aznou guy must be absolutely garbage if he can't get near the pitch instead of him.

Zonal marking again for the second goal. Man-mark and there is no free header with 10 defenders in the box. It happens every week in every game, but it's the latest thing, so must be done.

Tim Iroegbunam is pure rubbish, hasn't impressed me at all since he arrived, but is getting starts now. Dibling looks totally pissed off and like he wishes he hadn't come here. Giving him starts and hauling him off at half-time would have killed any hope he has. Even though he was awful as well today, to be fair.

McNeil was called in from the cold and hauled off as well. Sell him, if anybody wants him (Forest perhaps) and be done with it.

If we don't beat Wolves on Wednesday, Moyes's position should be under serious threat. So frustrating watching this club!

To be fair, we did attack them before their first goal.

It's the Plan B, when we go a goal down, that is missing.

My same thoughts exactly.

Mark Murphy, Grealish is not a Number 10 anymore.

McNeil's best position is as a number 10... but options are limited.

Davey -- put some square pegs in square fucking holes cos we're sick of watching this shite now.

Everton have to stick to what we have and what we're good at, especially at home. No Keane and no McNeil ever again. Finished.

Very simple stuff, David Moyes.

Keane has been a crucial member of the defence in many games this season. I thought Tarkowski made a lot more costly mistakes than Keane did today. But that's what happens in football. You have a bad game. It doesn't mean you never play again.

McNeil has been poor this season but he played a key part in both goals at Forest just the week before. So what do you do? Never play him again? Even though we have such a depleted squad?

Er Get real.

As for Everton, totally out worked in midfield, also there was only one outlet and that was Jack, Dibling looks way off offering anything at 19 and I just hope something clicks.

Rohl is finding it tough but its still early days for him.

We were so easy to play against and Wolves will have no fears on Wednesday after watching a shambolic performance.

Tarks was at fault today for the first, him and Keane looked terrified of Tiago, we needed big Jake in there who is a really good player.

The result makes the January transfer window even more interesting

We reverted to a winning team, that back four has been part of the winning teams all season, the only reason Keane didn't play against Forest was injury.

No, no and no.

The idea that we looked like crap because Moyes left out Patto is absolute Looney Tunes. Whatever the question, Nathan Patterson has never been the answer.

This loss is on a team full of guys (excepting Grealish and Beto) who lost every fight in every corner of the pitch. Even Garner and the captain, the guys who usually win 'em all.

Toss this one in the trash can and move on.

Like everyone else I don't know why O'Brien was at right back again, strange one. It doesn't help whoever is playing at right wing, he doesn't/can't offer support to them. I would've thought he'd've given Patterson the opportunity to build on his performance against Forest.

Tarkowski is making a habit of making mistakes this season. That was probably the defining moment of the afternoon.

That the sort of match that shows both the limitations of our squad and our manager, but I'm not gonna throw my toys out of the pram over one performance. We're mid-table and our progress this season has been solid.

We now need to bounce back on Wednesday. Moyes needs to pick a better team and motivate the players more effectively for it. Talk of a new manager on the back of one iffy performance is just the usual nonsense from the usual suspects. But having said that, Moyes needs to look at his performance as well as the players' performance today and ask some questions.

Keane has done ok this season but without gana and ndiaye I think getting Patterson (or Even rohl) at RB and obrien at CB would be good at home.

You are definitely a Koppite, but don't feel embarrassed at outing yourself as you managed to keep the pretence going for almost a week. I imagine it was the delirium of Everton getting soundly beaten and Cody scoring what looked like a winner was just too much to control.

"There are no excuses for getting smashed at home by Brentford" - the glee and delight with which you wrote that suggests you really enjoyed the moment. Almost the same relish with which you wrote last week that Everton would NEVER win the Premier league again, it is absolute madness to think we will win the FA Cup, and Uncle Bill was a decent old sort.

But, be careful. I don't want you to turn all Brody in Homeland and get brainwashed into believing you are an actual blue. Keep checking into the dark side every day.

As to whether Patto qualifies... well, that's a matter of opinion.

Here is what they are 1) one is a Membership Manager at LSEG 2) the other left F1 Mercedes as a Partnership Manager to set up his own sports brand 3) Both are lifelong passionate blues and season ticket holders who both travel from London to watch home games 4) They love the club despite not having seen them win anything 5) They are also wonderful people.

Imagine coming on here and insulting another poster's family. Disgraceful and embarrassing.

We’re leaking oil with keanes low pace at centre back

Maybe garner at RB and Armstrong in the middle?

There is some talent there but oh so inconsistent.

Garner had a fine game at Forest but Forest are woeful these days under Dyche. Garner was inconspicuous today and in fact the whole team weren't at the races.

It's easy to keep going back on the Moyes rant when things go wrong but he is only part of the problem. Having to choose from an average playing squad which may work on some weeks and flop on others. That right back position has been a continual problem and I agree with many that Mykolenko isn't much better these days.

Hard to see a cure at the moment without new signings but the bosses don't appear worried. They may feel that this is a transitional season after shelling out for the stadium and thinking the youngbloods will come good own the line.

This week the team did not seem to have a game plan, but the Brentford manager, who actually I believe is in his first managerial premier league, simply out thought him. The Brentford #9 had more room to himself than my kids had when I used to take them to Walton Hall Park. This was simply the tactics used by 2 managers who were both reasonably in the same position in the league, and showed up the negativity in D.M

Sure, we beat Forest and we’ve won some other matches this season where we were lucky or solid defensively or outworked average opposition, but we’re just not good enough yet, especially with 4 of our top 7 or so players out.

We should be grateful and happy with our position in the table, quit worrying about Moyes, and recognize our limitations. Of today’s starting XI, only Pickford, O’Brien, Garner, and Grealish belong in a top-half Premier League team right now. If somehow in 6 weeks we can consistently throw KDH,

Branthwaite, Ndiaye, and Gana out there as well, we’ll finish around mid-table and build for next season.

And unless we completely fall apart, Moyes should be the man to lead us out again next season, hopefully along with 2 competent fullbacks. I’d add we need a new striker, but I’m too scared we’d blow half our budget on someone no better than what we have now, rather than someone more like the guy who bagged a hat trick against us today.

Those comments on your lads by the knobhead WUM/troll were disgraceful Steve. I'm glad that you put him in his place where, we can only hope, he will now remain munching larvae and discarded skins. You must be proud of your lads.

Happy to be called anything, as I am big enough and ugly enough to take it.

But I would never dream of being, disparaging to a poster's loved ones - "My god, I wonder what your kids are like -- no, don't go there, because I don't want to know.". What right does he have to write about my sons like that? Lowest of the low as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, love to you and yours. Wishing you a happy and contented 2026!

It was obvious Tim and Jim were still playing 4-2-3-1 in their heads because poor Dibling had no support whatsoever.

Whereas Grealish had Myko and Garner around him throughout the game.

I have heard the HD pitch is 5 meters longer than GP which is far too much for Michael Keane and don’t even ask what our defensive coach does as we let one in every home game from set pieces.

A really bad day at the office Davie so sort it for midweek because we don’t have a great record against Wolves. Get O’Brien back in the middle and Rohl or Garner at RB. Harrison Armstrong looked as good as anybody when he came on so deserves a run out next game.

We were out muscled, outfought, and out played by a team that had two days less than us to recover from the last game. Fed up!

We have nobody who can make a difference at right back - not Garner, not O'Brien, not Rohl, but I would have started Patterson yesterday. Not one of these four is good enough in that position for us, quite frankly, but at least Patterson - or Patts as juveniles call him - is in his right position, showed some grounds for admittedly hopeful optimism, and, crucially, allows Jake and James to play in their best positions.

I had my usual phone call with a best mate who is always there after the match who burst out laughing when I told him that a poster on here said that the line up and plan was not responsible for this humiliation. Quote - 'I'd dare that clown to have come to everyone around me in the South Stand and say that because every man, woman, and child was fuming that Moyes broke up the O'Brien/Tarkowski partnership'.

Question: has there ever been a game of football where line up and plan had little or no impact on the result?

Continuing the Tarkowski/O'Brien pairing after Forest would have been a mark of confidence and should have been. That central defensive display we saw at Forest was probably our best all season. I have no idea what goes through Tarkowski's head but my guess is that he would have preferred to play with Jake next to him.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Keane, but Jake is a better, taller, more resolute central defender. We need him in the middle right now, not wasted as an incompetent right back.

First full season back and we are not in a relegation battle.

But of course we are Everton, we have half a decent team now, first time in years and we expect the world.

We will have up and downs as Moyes tries to build solid foundations but that will take time and we will see peeks and troughs.

I’m as frustrated as we anyone when we lose games we are expected to win but we still have small squad, have relatively untested players.

We are going in the right direction but we need time and a little patience.

Actual Pts 28.

Could it be worse? Well yes it could, but it could also be better, I think settling for 'it is what it is / Moyes will be Moyes' is the order of the day and just take...as, IMO, you always should...One Game at a Time.

Time for our crack recruitment team aka, The 3 Amigos, to do their stuff...I'll not hold my breath.

It was undone in seconds, as the number 1 England goal keeper got done from a yard out for third time game in 4, and the captain couldnt jump with his man. Keane, obrien, Tarkowski, beto, rohls, Barry. All 6ft 2 plus, yet weve been done 3 times at home on set plays.

It begs the question, why bother having big fellas, if they do nothing in set plays at either end?

Seconds later, a give away at the back, and we are at 6s and 7s.

Id of played Tarkowski and Obrien at centre back. The issue again is we have no quality at right back. Patterson got roasted at Forest, and is clearly not fancied, so we changed the personnel to cover this issue. Playing Patterson or putting in Keane, doesn't massively improve the side in either scenario. Brentford are a bug set piece side, so the latter was used, not that we could counteract it.

I can understand Mcneil starting at 10. Grealish is too slow in the centre and offers little press support, so I can understand Moyes keeping him in his BEST position. The alternative was Rohl, and he did little when on to suggest either would have improved much.

We have now lost 4 of our last 6 home games, therefore our set up at home is becoming a real problem. When we are expected take the initiative in games, we do not look confident in retaining the ball and we are easier to counter. We are also dominated by tall, athletic opponents and have been vulnerable to long throws, set pieces, and corners all season; this is not acceptable as a tall side ourselves and must be addressed.

The defence functioned worse with the Tarkowski/Keane combination at centre-half. Both fullbacks defended poorly and looked completely ill-at-ease going forward. We had two centre-forwards in the opposition box but O'Brien and Mykolenko were incapable of providing crosses. We need to sign a fullback/fullbacks in January; it is urgent.

The midfield was ill-balanced with the replacement of Rohl at No.10 by McNeil. Rohl would have made us more compact by dropping into midfield and close down Damsgaard who was allowed to run the game.

Finally, the manager. It is not hating to point out that the selection and tactical decisions he made for this game failed. It is fair criticism on a terrible performance, for which he and the players must take the blame.

The only upsides? Our forwards actually managed to score and we now have a clear need for reinforcements. Over to our world class recruitment and analytics team to provide the manager with what he needs.

Nor me mate.

Same to you Steve mate.

There were several culprits in the playing personnel with below acceptable displays, O'Brien at RB, Myko at LB, Tarks was well below par with the too slow Keane alongside. Midfield was over-run by Brentford. In Dibling's defence he was isolated and starved of receiving the ball, mainly due to O'Brien. He was made the scapegoat, rather than hooking J O'B and putting Patterson back in.

I believe the atmosphere in the ground can be felt by the players, but that works in two ways, an unhappy crowd are unlikely to rally underperforming players. Certain players MUST know they are playing shite but do little to improve their output.

All in all, a defeat is almost an inevitability. Also doesn't augur well for the next two home fixtures, with either the loyal match goers, or confidence amongst the players.

Over to you Moyes !

Fingers crossed Steve but I'm sure that our Puget Sound TFG reporter will keep us informed. I wonder what his retainer is?

I won't get a job as a media pundit rentagob after predicting a tight match with a narrow Everton win..I think the crucial part was the Brentford line-up...Andrews normally plays either one of Jensen and Damsgaard but very rarely both together.They are comparatively lightweight but have endless energy, are highly combative and both very skilful...Damsgaard in particular is top class on his day.The Bees' analytics team had obviously spotted weaknesses in the way Everton play and it was these two who orchestrated what was almost complete dominance.It was striking how they targeted the wide areas around both full backs, esp v the left back.Well done to Keith Andrews for his bold move.

I think Everton are in a Spurs dilemma..fanastic ground but the squad doesn't do it justice and it will cost an awful lot of money to get them to compete at the very top.

The downside is of course that it means that Brentford will struggle to keep hold of Thiago but that always been the case(Watkins,Benrahma,Toney,Mbeumo,Wissa) and somehow the recruitment team keeps finding gems.

Anyway,all the best for rest of season...there's no fear of relegation so perhaps a good Cup run might be on the cards.

'There were several culprits in the playing personnel with below acceptable displays, O'Brien at RB, Myko at LB, Tarks was well below par with the too slow Keane alongside. Midfield was over-run by Brentford. In Dibling's defence he was isolated and starved of receiving the ball, mainly due to O'Brien. He was made the scapegoat, rather than hooking J O'B and putting Patterson back in'.

The silly-billies who think that O'Brien should have played at right back re looking even sillier.

Like Palace, Brighton, your folks find replacements. Thiago must be north of 50 million now. Can we swap our recruitment teams mate?

Damsgaard was superb.

Unlike ours, your gaffer was superb.

Best of luck for the rest of the season JH and with Thiago crucial to my FPL team may he keep on scoring. Made up with his hat-trick, oh crap, hang on

Jake O’Brien was brilliant alongside James Tarkowski in central defence against Forest, but it was a bad call to move him to right-back in place of Nathan Patterson, with the slow Michael Keane coming back into the side.

I think you were watching highlights of the wrong game.

Tarkowski didnt push too high for the first goal. He played the most fuck-witted pass to a man who was marked facing his own goal just yards from his own area. I've got no objection to passing to a marked man, but you have to put something on it to give him a chance Tarkowski thought it was a good idea to roll the fucking thing - 1-0

Barry had clearly been given the job of looking after the near post, but everyone in the ground could see the delivery was going over his head. Tarkowski had a clear view of the flight of the ball yet (and heres the unforgivable bit) he goes up half heartedly with his chin in his chest - 2-0

NO Evertonian needed to be told Tarkowski had a very good game at Forest. Least of all by the moronic Danny Murphy. The difference being. The Evertonians knew WHY he was so impressive. That game was tailor made for him. Forest tossed crosses in with monotonous regularity which was meat and drink to him. But the dogs in the street could have told you Brentford would not play the game the same way as Forest and the moggies could have told you Tarks no longer has two games in a week in him.

Keanes charge sheet is long enough in its own right, but Evertonians screaming blame at him, frankly embarrass me.

We didnt lose this game because we pushed too high. We didnt do that until it was kitchen sink time. Nor did we lose this game because the manager picked the wrong team (although I think he did). We lost this game because our Captain left us with an insurmountable mountain to climb Just like he did against Spurs and Newcastle.

We were the better team until Tarks gave Brentford a shot in the arm with an act of criminal negligence.

It cant go on

Moyes wants Armstrong back at Preston. Imo it's a weird thing to state loyalty to your old club when talking about a talented young Everton player.

To my mind this sums up why the likes of Dibling will struggle under him as players like McNeil train well.

To my knowledge Pep never felt the need to send Foden - in fact I am sure I remember him turning offers down when all the media were saying he needed game time.

We don't have the luxury of sending out excellent young players to aide our ex teams whilst we pick players on the bench who will never play.

Moyes takes the fun out of football, but he's not going to change his spots now. Talk of European football is fanciful, just as talk of relegation will be.

I'm now waiting for next season in the hope something changes, because I've seen how this season ends. After so many false dawns my enthusiasm for football has hit a low.

Life under Moyes feels like the Simpson when Lisa puts a "Do not touch" sign next to a cupcake which is electrified. Bart touches the cupcake and gets a shock, but he doesn't learn and keeps on touching it.

You always get a shock with Moyes but for some reason people keep wanting him as their manager. I don't get it, but that's just my opinion.

It seems weird to me that people argue in favour of Moyes because I'm old enough to remember winning. But we have a manager who never wins, an owner who in not sure ever watches us and a fan base who are often content with mediocrity. That's not a criticism, more a dawning of realisation that is our identity now and I cannot see it changing.

Sad times, I've even started watching American Football again.

We completely underestimated how good Brentford are.

After months of patiently waiting for our new signings to take off I have realised that we wasted a hell of a lot of money on them.

Supporting Everton is an addiction I cannot quit even though it’s killing me(not quite but it sure is depressing at times).

Going with 2 forwards wasn't going to gain us control of the midfield. This is one of my big problems with Moyes, he doesn't adjust to counter the opposition tactics.

Like many others, I saw no need to change the line up from the Forest game. As well as Keane has played this season,his obvious lack of pace hurts us. What did we actually gain by bringing

him back in?

It was a dire performance from the team, but also from the manager

No Stu no. The worst fucking 'sport' in the world behind bowls and male netball.

Your post might be the best of 2026 so far and perhaps the whole year mate.

When Dibling and McNeil went off for Beto and Rohl at the break, we lost our balance on the right flank and were ultimately punished with an extra forward on the pitch, even if Beto did impress against Brentford.

At the end of the day, it is an entertainment business, and if they DON'T entertain ? How are the audience going to react ? They have paid good money either for a Season Ticket or a Match Ticket, so they want value for money.

A very good point raised that you have sold your better players, but like Brighton, Palace and Bournemouth too, seem to unearth never heard of gems, for peanuts in Premiership Pricing terms, and the process is often repeated. We tend to have bought expensive duds, or square pegs for round holes !

All the very best John H, don't be shy to come on again next time we play you, best of luck to all Bees Supporters too, for the rest of the season.

Harrison Armstrong is a quality player with little top level experience - probably needs more strength, but I reckon he needs to be given an opportunity to show he can force his way into the first team.

Moyes states he wants to send him back to Preston so they are promoted - I would hope he wants more to keep him at Everton, for European Qualification!

He was tormented by Kevin Schade in transition and isolated Dibling by offering him no support.

The gaffer make Dibling the scapegoat.

Regardless of the team put out, injuries, suspensions, AFCON whatever. That is totally unacceptable in any way, shape or form.

There can be no excuses

I get it, you don't like Moyes.

The selection is on Moyes with the squad he had. The individual mistakes is on the back 5. They were all garbage.

It’s happened and we move on and with any luck, Moyes will have rethink and pick a team and formation to get back on track against Wolves.

I'm not a Moyes apologist, I actually didn't want him back, but based purely on his performance so far, i.e. points per game and a limited spend, he has done significantly better than average in my view.

Everton needed stability after the car crash of Moshiri hiring and firing managers every week. Moyes provides that and I think the owners got it right with his appointment, whether by luck or judgement I don't know.

We are unaware of how savvy TFG will be when it comes to making their next big footballing decision, which will be replacing Moyes. You're quick to get on his case but you really don't know who might be a better fit for us. I saw lots of fashionable names bandied about on here after Dyche went, Thomas Frank and Graham Potter being two who were regularly championed. They've both been great since then, haven't they?

It's an old trope, but we really need to be careful of what we wish for when the time comes to appoint a new manager. Have you already forgotten how many times Moshiri got it wrong and what that resulted in?

This doesn't mean that Moyes shouldn't be criticised when he gets things wrong, and he definitely didn't help the cause with his team selection yesterday.

if Moyes had been the manager in 1963.

Get some help Son. If you havent yet started spouting mindless, meaningless stats. There's still hope.

He is the corrector-in-chief.

LOL team line ups and game plans have less impact than players performances.

Gaynes even claimed the contrary and next post - unrelated - talked about our crack recruitment team.

Gaynes, the TFG apologist - embarrassing - GO TFG - not because sadly you claim that bizzarely I'm LOL 'obsessed' but. because Mr. Gaynes you are so often wrong Johnny come lately.

I have the list you 'no no noi' arrogant tosser,