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A shambles on and off the pitch

By Colin Fitzpatrick :  23/09/2007 :  Comments (77) :

In answer to some recent questions surrounding the surprise availability of funds at the end of August here are two statements from Keith Wyness that can be found in October?s Evertonian:

?We?re now in a stable state and are in a better shape than twelve months ago?

?I don?t think the TV deal was the main point; Robert Earl, being a new director on the board, can see the value of the new stadium project going forward for the benefit of the club and is prepared to support the squad. It was a combination of factors that allowed him to help and support us in bringing players in. Robert was very supportive in making this happen.? ? He?s now more active which I welcome because he is a very astute businessman and you need that at board level.?

As can be seen below, on the 24th August, the day after the Kirkby stadium vote closed, Barclays Bank PLC submitted the paperwork on a £25,000,000 loan for Everton Football Club secured against the combined TV & Merit revenue streams for the 2007/08 season, the loan being in the form of an overdraft facility at 8.75%. This new arrangement follows an earlier £14,000,000 charge obtained by Barclays in April of this year, which appears to have been finally satisfied using part of this new loan.

Everton Mortgage, April 2007                       Everton Mortgage, August 2007

At the end of August Everton broke their transfer record by signing Yakubu and to the astonishment of everyone Manuel Fernandes extraordinarily disappeared in somewhat bizarre circumstances.

In recent years the current custodians of our club have not only increased the clubs borrowings but they have systematically endorsed the sale of the clubs assets. After disposals of the Megastore, Netherton, Bellefield, Finch Farm and the Eileen Craven Car Park sites Everton Football Club have little assets left but they do appear to have one massive liarbility! The Everton board has sold the family silver and continues to borrow heavily in order to mask this shortsighted business strategy.

None of the money derived from this strategy has been spent on any tangible ground redevelopment projects. These could have provided the increased and sustainable revenue streams that would have perhaps funded the much needed on field activities that we all desire and removed the necessity and associated costs of continually borrowing money and sale of irreplaceable assets.

On Thursday night, expectant Evertonians packed out Goodison Park only to witness a shambles both on and off the pitch, a shambles that is a consequence of this strategy and its advocate. Evertonians deserve better, they deserve better from this Board and they deserve better from the local press who appear to be content to print impotent articles and sycophantic interviews at the expense of decent investigative journalism.

?We?re now in a stable state and are in a better shape than twelve months ago??

?It?s the deal of the century??

?It?s a red herring??

?The club will be left with minimal debts??

?Everton Football Club acknowledges that a majority of those Evertonians who were eligible to vote in the ballot do support the Club in its desire to relocate to a new home in Kirkby???????

(Quick lesson, those eligible to vote = 36,662, those voting yes = 15,230, therefore 15230 / 36662 x 100 = ?)

The 2007 accounts will be available shortly, in the phraseology of management doublespeak (i.e. bullshit) ?moving forward, someone?s position is rapidly becoming untenable?

As Lincoln said: ?You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time?

Colin Fitzpatrick 

Reader Comments

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Gavin Ramejkis
1   Posted 23/09/2007 at 07:31:31

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Colin you are a star sir, and once again ladies and gentlemen of the global Evertonian Jury I put it to you that the figures quoted to rebuild Goodison Park are or were achievable as per the club’s ability to loan significant amounts pushing the club into further debt which would have equated to a significant portion of the upgrade/rebuild costs. The future lending for the Kirkby project will push the debt into even higher figures thus making the club cannot afford to redevelop Goodison Park a hollow untruth.
Barry Holder
2   Posted 23/09/2007 at 09:39:53

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Oh for the love of god.......... get over it, were moving yeeehaaaa no more having to go to that awful ground, dodging the dog turds, having your car broken in to, sitting behind a great big pillar, using toilets that wouldn’t even be used in Africa....... whoohoo lets move, quicker the better.
Jim Hourigan
3   Posted 23/09/2007 at 10:08:08

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Colin with your clearly excellent grasp of all things financial, your incredible ability to identify financial strengths and pitfalls and your generally fantastic business acumen, can you not buy our club from your own incredible wealth and save us from these pitifully sorry custodians?

Sorry, what do you mean you’ve no money??? But surely .............
Steve Hogan
4   Posted 23/09/2007 at 10:10:54

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Colin, you clearly have’nt got over the fact that the majority voted YES.

Do you think the average fan really stays awake at night wondering where the additional financing comes from?

Clearly, the bank is satisfied with the clubs financial status even if you continue with your ’one man hate campaign’ against all things Everton.

Thursday nights performance was awful, whats that got to do with Evertons off-field activities.
David Marsden
5   Posted 23/09/2007 at 10:26:23

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oh! yes... I believe the story you tell or over the story the board tell!! I believe neither!
tony gee
6   Posted 23/09/2007 at 10:57:17

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Good read...

Fatty Keith and his inept cronies should do some cash in hand plastering during the week, as the cracks they are currently smoothing/hiding over are quite impressive...

although it will all end up in tears.....

No to Kirkby
No to Moyes
No to Hibbert
No alcohol in Uefa ties...misery..
No more clapping like a hyperactive sealion Phill Neville, just pass the twatting ball properly.
tony ainscough
7   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:11:29

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Colin to be honest you get on my nerves if you think you can do better raise the money and buy kenwright out some people in life do and others talk you are the latter
colin fitz
8   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:15:14

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Steve,
Appreciate your constructive comments which are far more relevant that the banality from the two previous commentators. I have to disagree with the last part of your post, what happens on the pitch is a direct consequence of the activities off the pitch, by this I mean the activities of the custodians of the club. I?m not a purveyor of a one man hate campaign against all things Everton, I passionately support Everton and I?m far from alone in believing that we are being led down a garden path to second rate oblivion. I cling to the belief that BK does hold Everton dear and that other mere employees are here for a short while, are concerned about their CV?s and will move on leaving a debris trail of destruction in their wake that will eventually come home to roost and which their successors and the fans will inherit and have to resolve.

Kind regards

Colin
Ov Collyer
9   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:21:16

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On the face of it, borrowing money against future TV income certainly seems a bit like a short-term solution to a longer-term problem, but I’d like to know if this is common amongst other clubs before jumping down the club’s throat. I don’t profess to know, but maybe half the other clubs in the Prem are doing a similar thing by borrowing against the guaranteed TV money to give themselves a headstart.

In any case, a short-term loan like this is not always a bad thing - as long as it is done within the wider context of fixing the long-term problem or lack of revenue. Whether you agree with it or not the Kirby proposal is about increasing the revenue streams in the long-term, so in the eyes of the custodians they are doing exactly that - borrowing in the short-term to help us compete, while making a plan for the long-term.

As it happens, I am against the Kirby proposal if only because I don’t think all the other options have been properly explored by the club, despite what they say.
Ov Collyer
10   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:39:35

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Doh - "Kirkby" not "Kirby."

*mental note not to be so careless in future*
Colin Fitz
11   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:41:34

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OV, I agree short term loans aren’t a bad thing for any business but what other Clubs do in terms of factoring their tv and revenue incomes is no concern to me, what concerns me is that it appears that’s all we’ve got left! Moyes over achieved last year again and got us into Europe, the board should have supported him and built on this by making the money available as soon as the window opened, perhaps we wouldn’t have been left with overpriced dregs.
regards
Colin
Gerard Madden
12   Posted 23/09/2007 at 11:46:27

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Another attempt at knocking the majority ’yes’ vote.

As for the shambles ’off the pitch’ on Thursday night it’s become increasingly obvious since then that it is in fact HM Royal Mail’s fault and (according to at least one of this mornings national tabloids) some of their RS employees suspected of dumping the sacks they collected from the club last Monday.
nick
13   Posted 23/09/2007 at 12:03:15

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Or to look at it another way, almost 26000 said yes, as only just over 10000 said no!

You’re as bad as the impotent sycophants really aren’t you.

Stop bleating. Go to the pub. Let it go.
colin.fitz
14   Posted 23/09/2007 at 12:17:57

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Nick,
After reading your post I think I’ll take your advice and go to the pub and let it go. Perhaps the "majority" deserve what’s happening.
regards
colin
Ray Lupton
15   Posted 23/09/2007 at 12:35:17

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Barry Holder take the rose tinted glasses off and open your fucking eyes. This club, OUR club and our heritage is being sold down the swanny before our very eyes. I’d personally take dog turds, cars broken into, bad toilets, bad food, flat ale and all the rest over some shed in the arse end of nowhere and being in debt up our eyes.
Marko Poutiainen
16   Posted 23/09/2007 at 12:37:41

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Funny how people can’t grasp Colin’s main point instead starting the "we won the vote, ner ner" chant. Ridiculous.

I can’t get my head over the fact that these same people are in no way worried about the increasing debt. One thing to note is that this 25 million won’t be visible in the accounts until next year, they will not show up in this year’s.

The club can’t even sell anything any more, because everything has been sold already.
James Smith
17   Posted 23/09/2007 at 13:11:23

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All I see in the attached PDF are blanked pages. Holding something back? Or merely speculation at the amounts supposedly borrowed?
magicjuan
18   Posted 23/09/2007 at 13:36:57

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one question Colin, why the need to do the deal in Newcastle? I don’t know if that’s Barclays company house address, but it seems a bit strange?
danny smith
19   Posted 23/09/2007 at 15:03:31

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no matter how you cover it up we have been awful all season we play long ball shit to two strikers who like the ball to feet.we havent got any creative cover for mikky (thanks manny)and our right back wouldnt get a game at southend.moyes is a good manasger but hes inept in the transfer market how many of hes signings have actually cut the mustard? 2 arteta, lescott . whatever you say we wont get a result in the ukraine and it will effect our league form troubled times ahead
Anthony Newell
20   Posted 23/09/2007 at 16:00:51

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Colin, keep up the good work. More people should be scrutinising the activities of these charaltans at every opportunity. PS Will you be at the next AGM? - I bloody hope so
Bob Carlton
21   Posted 23/09/2007 at 16:12:25

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Gerrard, you’re being naughty again. The article was about the availablity of funds and the sale of club assets; nothing to do with the YES vote.br />nick, the figures were 15,230 Yes; 10,468 No. Not 26,000/10,000.
Not Ian Ross
22   Posted 23/09/2007 at 17:20:27

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i see G.Madden was straight in on the defensive again and trying to deflect attention away from the fact that the club now has no assets at all and is in hock with respects to future incomes,he must work for the ian ross department.keep up the good work Colin
Andrew Gilbert
23   Posted 23/09/2007 at 17:58:38

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Colin,For goodness sake get a grip. These days business who aren’t borrowing and are wallowing in capital are lambasted by their shareholders for not borrwing and stretching themselves. Sure assets make you feel good but who actually owns stuff these days?your house - not yours, your car not yours most things not yours, financed by credit. You bank on having a job and therefore a salary work hard, do well at work you keep your job unless your unlucky. You loan cash on this basis. You specualte to accumalate, if you don’t take risks you dont have a chance. We look to be walking the line but a relatively balanced one. Lets hope this cash pays dividends.
Andy Mckenzie
24   Posted 23/09/2007 at 18:02:42

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Gerard.

tell me where in that excellent post by colin were he has a go at yes voters? and what is your obsession with the vote?and what is it with your rediculous defence of the men who are currently running the club.

some excellent points their colin and stripping the club of all its assets is in my oppinion a disgrace, also our we about to announce record losses as well?

wyness is a man not to be trusted and the shoddy handling of cup ticket distribution was once again a shambles, the club are to blame no-one else.
Greg Murphy
25   Posted 23/09/2007 at 18:10:36

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Keep on keeping on Colin. I, like you, fear we’re heading down a very scary road which, the last time I checked, was signposted "Don Revie Way". As for the press, well you can only hope that the cacophony which will surely ring out at the AGM may finally make some of those in Old Hall Street demand that the commercially-tied hand-cuffs they’re forced to wear (i.e. to protect the contracts for the matchday programme, The Evertonian etc) be loosened to enable some serious journalism. In any case, I believe The Observer is carefully monitoring "all things Everton". Then again, irony of ironies, maybe a certain Mr Bascombe, who starts at the NOTW next week, might relish beating them to it.
colin.fitz
26   Posted 23/09/2007 at 18:37:58

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Apologies for the delay in replying to those posing questions, been watching the blues and wishing we could have signed three Leighton Baines?!

James Smith ? the blank pages are part of the form, they are for the additional detail that some charges may contain, you can download this information yourself from company?s house if you don?t believe me, there?s nothing sinister.

Magicjuan ? think that?s where Barclays capital process this type of business, again don?t think there?s anything strange, it?s just a standard straightforward short-term business loan.

Andrew Gilbert ? Sorry if my post appears slightly ambiguous, you?re correct in your contention that it?s madness to sit on viable assets that could be realised for the good of the business, the point I?m obviously unsuccessfully making here is that the monies derived have not been used for the good of the business i.e. establishing sustainable revenue streams. What in the three years before we move to our new home, which is obviously intended to be our salvation, are we to do for the extra revenue that we clearly require?

kind regards

Colin
Barry Lightfoot
27   Posted 23/09/2007 at 19:26:55

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Borrowing against future earnings is also a standard business practice, before we bought Yak & nearly Fernandes plenty of people were on here asking why we weren’t doing it as plenty of other teams were. Even David Bowie sold off his future earnings, anyone remember Bowie bonds.

In todays unstable financial climate if a bank like Barclays say yes then they must be sure it will be paid back.
colin fitz
28   Posted 23/09/2007 at 19:40:20

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Your right barry they do, but this is all that we have now. The bank will be repaid as they have first call on the payments. The club finishing last will get around £30M this season, £25M plus interest is close to this figure, it’s an easy earner for the bank.
Tommy David
29   Posted 23/09/2007 at 19:54:22

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A club taking out a loan with a bank?

Shag me! What’s next, the wheel?!

And sack off all the vote stuff. It’s slam shut and the result was yes.
Barry Lightfoot
30   Posted 23/09/2007 at 20:12:13

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Colin that’s not entirely true the club have still got there 2 best assets that’s a position in the most profitable league in Europe (for now at least) and us poor put upon fans and we don’t look like melting away any time soon do we. Every year I watch the hoofball and say never again but hear I am again season ticket in hand.
colin.fitz
31   Posted 23/09/2007 at 20:53:39

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Barry, me and you both! What an enabling partner we are! You’re right, never thought of it that way. Regards Colin
colin fitz
32   Posted 23/09/2007 at 20:59:10

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Oh hang on Barry I forgot, the season tickets are already gone for the next 20 odd years, they went in the £30M securitization loan, we’d better keep going or they’ll really be in trouble! Regards Colin
Karl Masters
33   Posted 23/09/2007 at 21:39:10

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2 words: Wyness Bonus

Don’t trust this man - he’ll be gone long before some of our naive fans realise his real priorities.... with a wad of cash and another ’success’ on his CV. He won’t give a toss about Everton and the mess we’ll probably be in. Why would he? It’s only a job to him. Are any of you really worried about the effects your work has had for an employer you left 5 years ago say? Think about it...please!
Tom Davies
34   Posted 23/09/2007 at 22:58:04

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Barry Holder
Posted 23/09/2007 at 09:39:53 Oh for the love of god.......... get over it, were moving yeeehaaaa no more having to go to that awful ground, dodging the dog turds, having your car broken in to, sitting behind a great big pillar, using toilets that wouldn?t even be used in Africa....... whoohoo lets move, quicker the better.



You obviously don’t care for Liverpool as a city and don’t come from Liverpool, so what right have you got to support a club who’s roots are strictly scouse?
Colm Kavanagh
35   Posted 23/09/2007 at 23:17:15

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The sad thing here is, we got wind of this latest mortgage taken out by the Club (chasing the debt as ever and lying through their collective teeth in doing so), a few weeks back, once it appeared elsewhere within the financial world. I’ve become increasingly disillusioned with Everton over the past year. Not that it’s worth a whole lot but I’ve not had the will to write much over the past season because, simply, it’s a waste of time when we’ve literally got legions of fcukwits who’ll believe any arl shite so long as it’s spun by Everton FC and those of us who dare to dig a little and find something rotten to the left of Denmark get called kopites and other such nonsense.

Comes a time you simply can’t be arsed trying to be informative.

I bet my last quid that if I’d have written a piece on the latest mortgage the other week when finding out about it I’d have been hammered from pillar to post by some of those fcukwits and the usual cries of "dem [insert expletive] at ToffeeWeb hate Everton anyway."

Evertonians, a vast majority of them, are getting the Club they EXACTLY deserve.

Sad.

My days are rapidly becoming numbered thanks to the current so called custodians of a Club we all love dearly.
Andy H
36   Posted 23/09/2007 at 23:22:04

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Now let me see if I’ve got this right. We secure a loan of £25 million at 8.75%.... which in turn pays off a previous loan of £14 million (which you don’t give us the percentage rate for). So in effect we have borrowed £11 million based on income that we are guaranteed to receive this season (TV and merit revenue streams). Makes perfect financial sense for any major company to enter into transactions like this to assist with cash flow and liquidity. Is it not entirely conceivable that the original loan was secured at a higher percentage and therefore, this loan saves Everton money in the long run, whilst providing transfer funds now from income we are due to receive anyway?

Every one of your articles is laughable, you just come across as bitter and twisted because you can’t accept that the vote didn’t go your way. I hope you eventually find this ’smoking gun’ you’re looking for, hopefully you might turn it on yourself so we get some peace from your constant whining.

Colin Fitz
37   Posted 24/09/2007 at 00:01:36

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Andy H,

Apart from the fact you are unable to comprehend that if you pay off 14M using a new loan you still owe it, that if you could take the time to read the details of the original mortgage you?d have discovered that it?s at the same rate, and that the subtleness of the article has completely passed your intellect by, I find your final comment, in light of recent events surrounding a supporter of our club, grossly offensive.
Giano Park
38   Posted 24/09/2007 at 01:13:35

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The current custodians of the club are doing what they think is best. BK has hired KW to do a job, when that job is done KW will go and so may BK if he sells the club to the right people with the right type of money.I say to all these barrack room accountants and fans who think they can do better and know better, ?have you found someone else to invest in the club??
Stuart Bonner
39   Posted 23/09/2007 at 22:58:02

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What has happened to Everton fans, have we turned into the biggest bunch of whingers around. So many posts on here are downrite appalling. Ok I am not a financial analyst so I dont pretend to understand where the transfer money came from. I am not a property investor or developer so do not have much understanding of the ground issues, I am not even good at writing articles, but hey lets make the most of what we have got. We are stable, compared to recent history. Bill is not the worst bloke we have had running our club and Moyes does a fantastic job if not always entertaining us. Do you remember Mike Walker and the others?

We actualy have players that other fans talk about (Joleon, Arteta, Yobo etc) for the first time in many a year. So come on lets get behind the club (the whole club) and make the most of things.

If we do move and I am with holding judgement, let's get to this out-of-town arse stadium and make it ours. The Reebok is shit cos its always empty (the fans' fault not the board's). By the way I like the JJB deal because you can now buy the shirt all over the country. And ticket mishaps do happen (Royal Mail are bloody useless). Come on the Blues lets show the country that what we can achieve. Well please start an orderly clue to bash me.

Derek Thomas
40   Posted 24/09/2007 at 06:45:00

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Fitz. The world can be divided in to two types,opinionwise, be it Moyes, mortgages, whatever; Those you don?t have to tell and those you CAN?T tell
Tom Hughes
41   Posted 24/09/2007 at 07:45:26

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Giano P says:
"I say to all these barrack room accountants and fans who think they can do better and know better, ?have you found someone else to invest in the club??"

You shouldn’t be expecting the fans to do the club’s work..... some of these people are paid massive sums to do that. Perhaps your question should be aimed the club..... how come when so many clubs around us have been snapped up by new investors no-one has shown any interest in EFC? Even mighty Portsmouth managed that much.

I also find it strange that some of Colin’s detractors cannot at least do him the courtesy of disproving his theories instead of making childish remarks. Some people need to get out of the "us and them", "Yes and no-voter" mode and start listening to the points being made, and responding directly to them if necessary.
Neil Pearse
42   Posted 24/09/2007 at 08:26:22

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Let me get this straight. We are selling off a lot of our assets so we can invest now in things such as new players, hopefully generating more future revenue. This is an extremely common business practice today. And the problem is?

Like virtually every other Premiership club we are taking out debt. Everton’s debt is actually fairly manageable, secured against guaranteed future revenue streams (Barclays wouldn’t lend otherwise). The problem is?

And we have decided to invest in a new stadium which (a) relative to others, will put us into less debt, and (b) will generate additional revenues sooner than any other available option.

The problem is?

(The diabolical performances on the pitch are a different matter!)
Neil Pearse
43   Posted 24/09/2007 at 08:36:57

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Oh, and we’ve also managed to secure a major new investor, Robert Earl, willing to put his money into the club.

Yes, we are sensibly borrowing money, getting in new investors, and partnering on a new stadium so that we can compete in the modern Premiership. It’s all bad news!

If we were ’living within our current means’, as many of you seem to want, we probably would not have been able to resign Arteta and Cahill, and buy Baines and Yakubu (and, please, a new midfielder in January).

Is that what you really want?
colin fitz
44   Posted 24/09/2007 at 08:40:51

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Derek Thomas,Colm Kavanagh

After reading Neil Pearse’s post I can see where you’re both coming from.

Neil the problem is.....oh I really can’t be bothered anymore I’ll leave you, and your cohorts in ignorant bliss.
Neil Pearse
45   Posted 24/09/2007 at 10:03:40

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Actually, Colin, since I am not part of any "cohort" and am just me, I really would appreciate knowing what Everton is doing financially which is so problematic, and so different to what any other Premiership team is doing, or indeed any other business would do faced with a short term need for cash and larger future revenues (i.e. borrow money).

By the way: I COMPLETELY accept that the admin side of the club (ticketing etc.) is a major shambles, indeed a disgrace. And that what’s going on on the pitch at the moment is unacceptable.

Please help me, because I genuinely don’t see anything majorly strange with how the club is being run financially.
colin fitz
46   Posted 24/09/2007 at 10:36:58

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Neil, we both know that we can both talk till we’re blue (never red) in the face and we’ll never agree, you see prudent borrowing I see desperation, you see new investment coming into the club I see nothing but another increase in borrowing and a much needed pleyer vanishing overnight. You see a move to a stadium that will increase our revenue streams and are probably encouraged by todays revelation that Arsenal have reported record figures as a direct result of moving to a new stadium, a £300M stadium with ticket prices three times our own, I see us moving to a £60M third rate stadium in the wrong place.I see one off schemes like JJB that won’t be repeated, they’ve issued a profits warning the other week-25%, I see borrowing against every single resource the club owns and no evidence of any tangible new investment.I look at the last five years accounts and I see a shambles, the 2007 accounts are out soon, you listen to someone telling you that we’re stable and in a better state than twelve months ago and you choose to believe them, let’s just agree to have another chat once they’re out shall we?
Brian Wolf
47   Posted 24/09/2007 at 11:40:07

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Do you think Everton are any different to any other club Colin? Just because they have taken a loan does that make them shifty? Get a life Colin and stop bad mouthing the club for doing something every club/business in the land is guilty of doing at some point. You obviously don’t have a life though if you have enough time to look things like this up. Go down to the pub, have a drink and get laid, if anybody needs it, it’s you.
Neil Pearse
48   Posted 24/09/2007 at 11:33:12

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Colin, thanks for that, I appreciate it. I should say that I am certainly not at all as rosy as you may think. But that does not mean that the financial moves that are now being taken are, in the circumstances, inappropriate.

I see a club which is fairly desperately trying to hang in there as many other Premiership clubs are becoming substantially richer. Along with many other clubs, we are taking the steps needed to raise some immediate cash so that we don’t get totally left behind.

The preferable alternative would of course be to acquire a very rich new owner willing to pump their own money in. Setting aside why we don’t have this new owner (yet), we don’t. Given that situation, I think many of the steps that are being taken (selling assets, borrowing) make sense. Of course you are right, we will see how risky these steps turn out to be when the numbers are released. Unfortuntely, things like losing budgeted European revenues because we fucked up last week, can throw out the projections quite badly.

What I do ask is, in the absence of a very rich new investor, what would you prefer? That we were very prudent and didn’t have the money to upgrade Cahill’s and Arteta’s contracts, and buy Baines and Yakubu? (That’s where the investment has gone Colin.) I’d actually prefer that Everton took some financial risks at this point to try to compete with our Premiership rivals. In fact, I don’t think we have any choice.
Michael Brien
49   Posted 24/09/2007 at 12:29:36

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Good article Colin, I thought you raised some interesting issues.There’s nothing wrong with debating some of these points, whether you agree or not with Colin I believe he has every right to express his opinion .After all it’s the future of our club.
Clubs taking out loans may be an accepted practice but it’s not always been successful as Leeds United found out.
That Vote has certainly provoked a lot of response.What disturbs me is not the fact that people have opposite views/opinions etc it’s the vitriolic response from some.
The smoking gun comment was appalling, I had a quick check and I see that the person who made that comment has not posted another - I am not surprised I hope he spends some time reading some of the several articles on Rhys Jones.Perhaps Andy H will then realise how sick his comments were.
Whether or not you agree with Colin can we have less of the bitterness please.Debate is one thing vitriol is quite another.After aren’t we all Evertonians ?
S.BIRCH
50   Posted 24/09/2007 at 12:37:07

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Neil Pearse
If all is so well with the Everton board and their business dealings why can’t they utilise now or at least in January the monies they must have had in place to purchase Manny.We clearly need a new right back and more strength and depth in midfield. We were told Manny was coming coincidentally at the time of the vote. It appears the funds to purchase him have disappeared as quickly and mysteriously as the man himself.Perhaps they will reappear in January altho I do think it will take more than BK rubbing a magic lamp to turn around the pantomime which is the everton board at the present time. There are no monies now or for the rest of the season. We will get no more new players as we have nothing left to buy them with.After what happened with Leeds and Chester we need to ask questions of the board in a reasoned and civilsed way and to get some truthful answers.
colin fitz
51   Posted 24/09/2007 at 12:30:52

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Hi Neil,
To be honest we?re not that different in what we desire, we?re both interested in what?s best for the club, I just don?t see short-term solutions as the answer. You keep mentioning investment and you previously mentioned our new investor Robert Earl, and we both can agree that this is a key issue. I don?t see an investment I see a loan at 8.75% for a player (let?s not debate the quality shown so far!), I see another player vanishing into the night and a doublespeak statement telling me that Robert Earl is ?supporting us in bringing players in? from, as I keep saying, someone telling me we?re stable and in a better state than twelve months ago.

Maybe Neil I?m just too cynical after all these years of Fortress, NTL and the Dock. I know we need outside investment, I know we need a white knight, I know that Bill Kenwright is an Evertonian who wants the best for Everton but he?s out of cash. David Moores was in a similar position but then again sometimes it?s maybe better the devil you know.

What I?m really saying to the club in all the articles I?ve posted is just be honest, I don?t want to be told someone is investing in us when they?re not, I don?t want to be told that we?re getting a £75M - £150M - £110M stadium when we?re getting a £60M stadium, I don?t want to be told we?re getting a stadium for very little additional debt when it just simple isn?t true and I find it insulting to be told we?re stable and in a better state than twelve months ago when we?re clearly paying more and more of our hard earned cash to Barclays.

We both know we don?t have the answers and I agree with you ?we?re desperately trying to hang in there? all I expect is that we, the match going Evertonian public, are treated with a little respect and not fed tale after tale.

If that investment was there Neil we could have supported Moyes as soon as the window was open, bought some higher calibre players in readiness for our Euro campaign and the Fernandes deal would have been done. It isn?t there and we have the dregs that we obtained for Moyes to do the best he can with once more.

Apologies for the cohort jibe, it?s a pleasure to debate with you

Regards

Colin
Gareth Mercer
52   Posted 24/09/2007 at 12:52:01

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Now I wasn’t going to write anything here, as I simply enjoy the balanced and "honourable" debate that you regulars engage in. However I felt very strongly about a few key points: 1) We should all care about the financial state of our club, as our future pleasure and the future of our children rely on our business being soundly run; 2) I am an obsessed evertion fan who likes to know everything about everything, yet according to those who shall remain nameless, I have no right supporting Everton becasue I am not from Liverpool. What a disgrace. Surely, this is a minority view amongst fans from the Liverpool area. My wife will verify, to her dismay, that I am too obsessed with Everton and live and breath every match, no matter how small. My 4 year old son is not from Liverpool, but from London like me, yet I guarantee you he has already started learning what it means to be an Everton fan, and if I’m still alive, I will go through the same with my grand-children.

Football is not just about supporting the team you are nearest to (I can’t stand Chelsea!) but it is about findign a home for your loyalties that generates the true passion that only a real football fan can experience. Everton did this to be when I was very young, and despite pressure from family to favour Chelsea, I stuck to myguns and have not a single regret, despite years of despairing performances.

Don’t ever believe Everton FC is just for Liverpudlians, because it isn’t!

Gareth "True Blue" Mercer
London
Gerard Madden
53   Posted 24/09/2007 at 13:43:32

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There’s a small clique (VERY small) of evertonians who are obsessive about our clubs financial situation but when you compare us with the £500M of debt (yippeddy do! they’re getting a shiny new stadium out of it) the RS are about to be landed with by a couple of yanks who have no feelings for them it puts our clubs situation in perspective.

Oh, and I stand by what I said earlier about this being yet another whining ’no’ article at its core, a look at who the author is and the fact he didn’t leave the stadium issue out of the article prooves my point.
S BIRCH
54   Posted 24/09/2007 at 14:12:20

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Colin
Just a quick point. Isn’t there a rumour circulating Goodison that Phillip Green has put money into the club via Robert Earl and isn’t that the true origin of the Yakuba money?
colin.fitz
55   Posted 24/09/2007 at 14:14:02

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Gerard,

Please don?t start commentating on LFC?s debt; you can?t even comprehend our current situation, which is a lot less complex.

Move along, nothing to add.

Gareth Mercer,

You keep posting mate, I don?t care where you?re from, what religion you are or what colour you are, as long as you?re not red, you?re an Evertonian and you?ve every right to state your opinion. Next time you?re up give me a shout and we?ll have a shandy together!! ;-)

regards

Colin
Gerard Madden
56   Posted 24/09/2007 at 14:32:00

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Colin - bringing up the issue of the massive £500M RS debt by a couple of yanks IS VERY relevent, it sort of makes your general point against EFC in persepective and makes it rather redundant.
colin fitz
57   Posted 24/09/2007 at 14:38:46

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Gerard, you need to look at the money making machine that is LFC, their plans for the future, their fanbase and their season ticket waiting list.Compare that with what’s being proposed at our club. Come back to me in your time.

Sbirch -
Yeah I?ve heard that rumour for sometime now, I never mentioned it in the article as I?ve just stuck to the facts that I can prove as in the Mortgage / overdraft. Sir Phillip is rumoured to have given Robert Earl a sum of money to invest in the club, whether this is true or not I don?t honestly know, as I have no evidence, whether it?s another loan, heaven forbid, or some kind of pre-payment on a possible take over from Bill once Kirkby is signed sealed and delivered I honestly haven?t a clue. There are people on here that are far more informed maybe they can answer you. All I can tell you in complete faith is that we?ve now had to increase our o/d yet again and in light of this rumour that’s a nightmare.

Brian Wolf
58   Posted 24/09/2007 at 14:53:46

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Colin

I must again say, get a life.

Why are you looking into so much depth with regards to the business dealings and the financial dealings of Everton FC? What gratification do you get out of it? Do you think your some kind of modern day Sherlock Holmes? Look into any business Colin at some point, somewhere, they will have borrowed money from the bank. The bank would not have given them the money if they didn’t think they would get it back, so think on!!!
colin fitz
59   Posted 24/09/2007 at 15:26:12

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Brian Wolf, You on the other hand seem very interested in not looking at the engine room of a football club, check the papers tomorrow, do you fancy a bet that they’ll be full of Arsenals financial results? Why bother to read all this if you’re not interested, go the pub, I won’t bother resorting to your other offensive statements.
Gareth Docherty
60   Posted 24/09/2007 at 16:04:22

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(Quick lesson, those eligible to vote = 36,662, those voting yes = 15,230, therefore 15230 / 36662 x 100 = ?)

Colin, it’s 41% but don’t forget those abstainers lad. Oh, but you did, because it doesn’t suit your argument.
Dave Roberts
61   Posted 24/09/2007 at 15:26:00

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Whether we like it or not Everton Football Club is a business and we are it’s customers. Some of us may invest in the club by becoming a shareholder or by providing money up front, in advance, via buying a season ticket. Nevertheless, we are nothing else and no more than customers. Because we have an emotional attachment to the club, some of us think we are more than customers and that we are entitled to know the minutiae of the club’s business. Actually, we are not....no more than we have a right to know the intricate business details of Tesco or any other company. In a free country of course (as long as we are not libelous) we can express opinions about the activities of any business but this is not always a good idea when, as customers, we are not in full possession of the facts. Furthermore, because of our emotional attachment to the club such opinions, especially when critical, tend to be of the ’fat Keith’ and ’Billy liar’ variety and when they don’t agree with us or they will not do what we want they become ’the current custodians’ who are presiding over the death of the institution and will not listen to people who know better....like US!

Quite frankly I have no idea what Colin is complaining about. So the club has increased it’s mortgage... so what! I increased mine a few years ago and got a lovely consevatory out of it (and a cruise!)Everton got Yakubu out of theirs and nearly got Fernandes too. I am sure they would have got him if it hadn’t been for his peculiar ’ownership’ circumstances. That money, if the loan is in the form of an overdraft facility, will be sitting in the bank for future use. Hopefully for a creative midfielder or two in January.

This is how individuals and businesses work and it must have been perfectly acceptable to the bank to consider Everton a good risk because (as others have said already)no bank would lend money to a dead loss... especially now after what happened in the sub-prime lending market! The bank will have perceived Everton as a going concern, with new premises on the horizon, an excellent customer base and with potential for a lot more! A club intending to improve it’s market share by improving the calibre of its staff.

I simply do not see the problem... although Colin will no doubt suggest that that is because I am not as clever as him!

By the way Colin (forgive me if I am wrong)but was it not you who (in a previous article) suggested that Everton should have increased the securitisation loan to £60m (rather than £30m) in order to pay for the King’s Dock??
What, and double the mortgage!!
Brian Wolf
62   Posted 24/09/2007 at 16:57:12

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Well put Dave, exactly what I was trying to say but I am not as eloquent.
colin.fitz
63   Posted 24/09/2007 at 16:41:03

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Dave, I have no problem with borrowing money or raising it for that matter to plough back into the club to generate more money, you yourself have built a conservatory that has added value to your home, that I agree makes good sense, lets all hope that all the money on the facility hasn’t been used. The problem, that many people are highlighting and have been doing for some time is that Everton are continually selling off assets and borrowing money to simply keep afloat. What will they have to do next? King?s Dock looked a fantastic prospect in hindsight but that unfortunately is water under the bridge. I, like you, do not resort to making personal insults in the direction of Keith Wyness; I?m merely questioning the long-term viability of a business strategy that is taking Everton to greater debt and loss. It?s no harm pointing this out after all the board are going to do what they want.

Gareth Docherty - sorry you?ve got the wrong end of the stick there, I?m pointing out that whoever wrote that press release is stretching the truth in claiming a majority of those being eligible, the majority was from those voting that?s all.
Michael Brien
64   Posted 24/09/2007 at 17:24:35

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Regarding Dave Roberts comments that we are not entitled to know the details about the club’s business - actually we have every right to question and debate these issues.
I am not as informed or as eloquent in these financial matters as Colin.I can’t back up his arguments in these ways.However i think a quote from the great Jock Stein is relevant here i.e. " Football without Fans is nothing".
We have every right to want to know what’s going on at the club.We are it’s supporters after all - and without us where would Everton be ?
Gerard Madden
65   Posted 24/09/2007 at 17:52:25

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Well thankfully this ’article’ in question has been relegated now from the main page - these Colin Fitz ’articles’ full of falsehoods have in the recent past (for some reason) been allowed to linger for days and days.

Dave Roberts - Nail on head mate with that reply mate.
Tom Hughes
66   Posted 24/09/2007 at 18:03:47

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We have every right to know how the club is being run.... we are more than just customers. If this was just any other product we would’ve shopped elsewhere years ago. Fact is, we are the club! Without us it ceases to exist.
Brian Wolf
67   Posted 24/09/2007 at 18:45:37

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Oh God, Tom’s started now.
Andy H
68   Posted 24/09/2007 at 20:13:22

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Colin

Your reply sums you up entirely,I am well aware that even though the 14 Million loan is paid off the new loan is outstanding. As a partner in a business with a turnover of £750,000 a year and a HND in business studies, you are in no way qualified to question my intellect. I was merely pointing out that it is standard practice to use consolidation against future revenue streams in any major business to assist with cash flow, or maybe you do not have the ’intellect’ to understand that this is how business is run in the real world. The overiding fact of the matter is, is that this is 2007 not 1977. Everton F.C. have long departed from the days you hanker for, when players hopped on the bus, sat side by side with the fans with their boots tied together over their shoulders. Once you understand that the only loyalty in this creation of Sky tv is money, then you will be able to move on. Your insults only serve to highlight the fact that you cannot accept any other opnion other than your own. How dare you take a euphanism and link it to the tradgedy surrounding a young boy. You really are a sick person, I’m ashamed to think that there are people such as yourselves masquerading as Evertonians. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror.
Tom Hughes
69   Posted 25/09/2007 at 00:30:00

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Brian,
What have I started? what is your point? Have you got one? I have stated a fact..... any football club ceases to exist without its fanbase, comment on that.

Andy,
I don’t profess to be in anyway business orientated. You start by listing your qualifications/experience suggesting you place some importance in such things, and that’s fair enough, but I think you will find that Colin is very highly qualified but slightly less inclined to list his achievements because they have little to do with his assertions here. On a personal note my wife owns a shop with approx half the turnover of your business I don’t believe that she would ever consider herself a financial wizard, and she has a degree in Business and languages.
Michael Brien
70   Posted 25/09/2007 at 07:31:21

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Andy H - the smoking gun euphemism was in extremely poor taste and was quite offensive.I don’t think Colin and myself were the only 2 people to have found it so.You said about Colin turning this smoking gun on himself.And in your last message you have the nerve to call him a sick person - if anyone is sick it’s you,And if anyone needs to take a long look at themselves in the mirror then it’s you.
I think you have every right to disagree with the points made in the article.But I think you have no right to use such blatantly offensive analogies.
Brian Wolf
71   Posted 25/09/2007 at 08:17:20

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Andy, maybe you should have chosen your words better mate. When you read it, it does sound quite bad, especially when you tell him to turn it on himself.

Maybe you should just concede that your words were in bad taste instead of carrying it on.
Mo
72   Posted 25/09/2007 at 10:16:36

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Its plain to see Colin is talking the truth. Sometimes the truth scares people. I agree with people that Wyness is only doing his job. The problem with it is he is not very good at it... For the past the years we have been fed lies and spin from the Everton PR machine. They pass the buck on everything. Think off all the issues the club have faced over the past three years how many times have they come out and appologised. Where will Wyness be when the move to Kirkby comes round, i know for a fact he will not be with us!
Brian Wolf
73   Posted 25/09/2007 at 10:26:38

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You know for a fact eh Mo?

Where is your evidence then?

Truth is you don’t know for a fact, you are summising that he won’t still be with us after the Kirkby move. It is your opinion, not fact, so get that right eh!!!
ParkEnder
74   Posted 25/09/2007 at 18:53:35

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How any IDIOT could want to move a proud and historic club like ours out of its roots is a mystery. These IDIOTS need to think about it as once we move (if we move) there is never ever gonna be a chance to go back.There will be no everton in OUR city any more. Our kids will have granchildren and they will know nothin about our great club as this whole city will support one club, the filth.
Ill finish with this, when people arrive at john lennon airport or lime st station they will see this sign: Welcome to l’pool, the home of LFC and the beatles.
They will also see this in kirby: Welcome to knowsley, the home of Everton FC. Embarrassing!
Mrs. Madden
75   Posted 28/09/2007 at 12:08:19

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Gerard,
Stop playing with the big boys and come in for your tea.
Gerard Madden
76   Posted 28/09/2007 at 14:56:02

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Sorry mum. The big boys made me do it.
Tommy Harris
77   Posted 25/11/2007 at 19:00:17

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A shambles on and off the pitch

Yes, what an absolute shambles on the pitch. Top 10, in the UEFA, CC quarter finals. MOYES OUT.

And you just culdn’t resist the dig at the vote could you?

Why don’t you spend your time finding the 10,000 fans who DIDN’T EVEN BOTHER TO VOTE, instead of writing such bias blind articles.

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