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A Hammering for the Irons

By Michael  Kenrick :  08/01/2011 :  Comments (79) :

David Moyes made three changes from the team that put Spurs to the sword. Leon Osman, Diniyar Bilyaletdinov and Tony Hibbert came in to the starting XI, replacing Phil Neville, Mikel Arteta and Steven Pienaar, with Osman as captain.

The South African limped out of Wednesday's win over Spurs with an ankle knock and won't feature at Glanford Park.

Neville and Arteta are on the bench though, while ex-Iron frontman Jermaine Beckford and Louis Saha continue their burgeoning strike partnership.

Also among the substitutes are Magaye Gueye, Victor Anichebe, Yakubu, Jan Mucha and Jack Rodwell.

A good cross from Coleman resulted in Everton getting an early corner that came to naught. Some good interpassing saw Fellaini set up Saha who produced a mirror image of his 3rd-minute Spurs goal, powering his shot home along the ground with his right left foot this time to open the scoring.

Dagnall came close for the home side and should have done far better with a far post header in response. Beckford then had a good chance to score but failed to get his shot away.

Heitinga was perhaps a little lucky not to got an early red card for an awful challenge, planting is studs into Dagnall's chest with a ridiculous high-footed challenge. Yellow only. More good passing saw Osman get forward and pull it back inside well but Beckford was heavily marked.

It all went a bit flat until Scunthorpe theyy won a corner in the 18th minute and O'Connor got in their first shot that Howard grasped comfortably. Beckford then somehow got free momentarily in front of goal but was rapidly dispossessed. Coleman did really well to cut a lovely ball back in but neither Saha nor Beckford were up in the penalty area to profit from it.

A nice move should have been finished off by Fellaini but he was leaning back and sccoped his shot too high over the bar. Osman then had a shot blocked. Beckford was then played in with all the time in the world but he put his shot in at a nice height for the keeper to palm it away when he really should have done anything else and scored. Very poor decison-making.

Another great passing move involved Osman, Baines & Bily, Osman's goalbound shot deflected wide, and nothing coming off the corner. Hibbert delivered a shocking free-kick straight to the feet of a defender, as Everton occasionally seemed to be playing as if this was a training ground runabout.

Bily whipped in a good cross that won yet another corner, and more attacking play. Everton surged forward but the pass forward hit Beckford on the heel and came back. Beckford again looked poor when chesting down and losing a simple ball scooped direct to him out of defence. This game really should have been more at his level, but that was not the impression he was giving. But finally a really nice cross in from Osman after a good run down the left and Beckford glanced in an excellent header for the second goal on 33 mins.

With the goalkeeper stranded, Fellaini looked to score from the centre-circle but Jones blocked the path of his shot. A shocking giveway by Osman in midfield could have been punished but wasn't by a poor home side who should have been 5 or 6 goals down at the half-time whistle. Saha lazily glanced a good Baines free-kick straight at the keeper to underline the chances missed.

Straight from the kick-off, Collins for Scunthorpe showed Everton and Beckford how it should be done on a nicely delivered Route One ball, over the top from Josh Wright that eat Distin for a first-time strike powered well past Howard and the Irons were back in it after just 16 seconds. That put life back into the locals and the game!

Everton steadied and a free-kick from the right was played back by Fellaini to Bily but he got his shot wrong and it drifted wide. A breakaway by Fellaini should have finished better when Beckford played a good cross back to him, but Scunthope were quickly back up the field and pressing the Blues defence as this game seemed a lot more like a classic cup-tie.

Coleman won another Everton corner that Baines got a little behind Saha, and from the goal-kick, Scunthorpe again attacked with new-found zest. Coleman with space to run showed his raw side when he tried to communicate his intentions and lost he ball in the process.

Beckford produced some good hold-up play down the right and then, with the help of Bily, he crossed superbly for Coleman to plant an excellent header beyond Murphy and into the corner to reassert Everton's superiority... and he got a ridiculous yellow card for daring to celebrate with the fans!

Coleman tried an acorbatic shot from edge of the area that flow wide after Anichebe came on in place of Saha... and Everton took the sting out of the game to consolidate their lead when a left-foot shot from Felliani evaded Murphy and snuk inside the post for the fourth goal. The Belgian then went off, substituted by Rodwell. With 12 mins left, it was time for Gueye to appear... with first name Magaye on his shirt.

Anichebe powered through to shoot and win a corner that Gueye took, a little too high. But a good ball in to Baines from Gueye, running to the byeline, saw the left back score a beauty, lofting his shot over the keepr and into the far top corner to make it five for the Blues.

Mirfin forced a save from Howard, tipping the ball over, then from the corner, Rodwell cleared the ball off the line and Anichebe broke down the right channel but could not get his shot on goal. Everton wound up the game with a comfortable win, the defenders outscoring the strikers in another vignette of this strange season for the Blues' front runners.

Reader Comments

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Liam Appleby
1   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:04:00

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Taken from Home page.

..."Giving David Moyes 'only' his 5th big win in 9 seasons at Everton."

Moyes Out....

(jesus wept)
John Audsley
2   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:07:26

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Great stuff apart from 15 secs in the 2nd half

Will Moyes go with both Becks and Saha next week though

he should but.......
Brian Hill
3   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:13:48

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Saha scored with his left foot
Michael Kenrick
4   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:15:26

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Funny how people have trouble with the facts, eh, Liam???

Ooops... seems I do too! Thanks for the correction, Brian.
John House
5   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:21:11

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How did Gueye do, any good?
Trevor Lynes
6   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:19:36

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I still reckon Heitinger is a liability and should be on his way sooner rather than later....his tackling is atrocious and if he was playing against us he would be booed....the worst Dutch international I have ever seen.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
7   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:27:24

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John, I thought Magaye looked impressive down the left, confident play, good touches and a great ball in for Baines to score.

Trevor... it's H E I T I N G A

Why is that so hard?!?!?!?!

Alex Baker
8   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:26:34

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@ Trevor Lynes (6). you think Heitinga is worse than van der Meyde?!? Heitinga isn't even the worst Dutch international to play for Everton, never mind the worst ever!
James Bernard
9   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:29:37

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Good professional performance from the lads tonight I thought the lads who stepped in (Bily, Osman and Hibbert) all integrated well into the 442 and were influential in the play.

Still think the same line up that beat Spurs should play Liverpool however.

Mark Jones
10   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:32:35

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Only bad news is that Seamus received his 5th yellow Card and will miss next weeks Derby .
Graham Saunders
11   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:32:15

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michael, the matchday live link seems to have been removed. could you possibly put it back? i was following it for most of the afternoon, then my internet went down, and i'd like to read through it? cheers
Liam Appleby
12   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:29:17

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No, i dont have trouble with facts Michael. I just find it funny how you have tried to put a negative slant on all round decent performance away from home.
Mark Jones
13   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:44:41

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Got to check the Coleman Yellows as the OS show him only having 3 and i may have been misinformed .Sorry.
Fran Mitchell
14   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:30:17

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I think Jordi Cryuff was probably worse than Heitinga. Or what about Ryan Babel. anyway...

I think it was a rather easy game, Scunthorpe were terrible.

Bily was quiet, but when he did have the ball he used it quite effectively (passed it forward). H he is definately stranded when playing as a winger, but I think he deserves a chance in the middle next to Fellaini.

Guaye did ok when he game on. Was energetic and eager to do something. He should definately be an option to come from the bench in the games when it's just not working (west ham anyone?).

Fellaini is pure class, and if Moyes even thinks of playing him as an attacking mid/forward again I will cry.

Beckford has everything we currently need, he just can't finish for jack. His movement and pace really opens up the play for us (admittedly playing in 2 open games) but he can't finish when he has to think, when it's all instinct then great, but give him 2-3 seconds to think and he'll mess it up. shame. but he should still play until we got a better alternative.

I still think Heitinga is better than jags, and he can pass.
Jon Cox
15   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:38:19

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Trev, Jags is going through a nervy phase at the moment. His confidence is low.

It's time we let him sit it out for a while until his composure returns.

For all his faults Heitinga at least plays the ball out of defence on the ground and to one of our players. One thing we dont need next week is hoofing it to the shite only for them to keep on attacking us.

I thought he had a fairly good game against the Spurs and with more game time will only improve our clean sheet count.

Something we have failed to do in past games with Jags.
Ryan Holroyd
16   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:44:31

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Mark # 10

Coleman and HeitinGA will be ok next week.

The rules are:
5 yellows before 31st dec = 1 match ban
5 yellows after 31st dec = warning to future conduct
10 yellows before 2nd Sunday of April = 2 match ban
10 yellows after 2nd Sunday of April = severe warning
Peter Askins
17   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:36:23

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Let's nip this "fifth yellow card" issue in the bud, before it becomes accepted as the truth.

Neither Heitinga nor Coleman will miss the derby next Sunday, as an amnesty for players receiving a fifth yellow card kicked in at the end of December.

So, fingers crossed, Moyes will have a near enough full-strength squad to pick from next week. Who he picks, and the formation he employs, however, is anybody's guess !
Mike Allison
18   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:56:30

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Michael I'd venture its not the 'facts' that people have a problem with, its the selection of facts. I don't know our exact record, but you might have said (for example) that it puts Everton into the 4th Round for the 8th time in 9 years. (I haven't checked that that's the correct number by the way).

My point is that you could just as easily have put a positive fact alongside it as a negative one.
Colin Ryan
19   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:00:19

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Watched the game live on Setanta and was pretty impressed but Scunthorpe were pretty shocking and it's no wonder they haven't won at home since August. Fellaini was the best player on the pitch but again I thought Bily was pretty quiet. Becks should have had 2 or 3. Great header by Seamus for his goal and Baines's goal was quality. Gueye did well when he came on but Anichebe wass pretty poor in the 20 mins he got. Roll on next week.
Ian Kearney
20   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:04:24

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Agree entirely Fran, think Jonny and Distin looks the better partnership.

Felli looks even better in this formation, if a 4 man midfield is to prosper his presence will be vital.
Mike Allison
21   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:05:03

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Having just checked the 'big wins' page, its also Moyes' 5th big win in just over three years. Still a fact, but definitely a much more positive spin to put on it.
Conor Feeney
22   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:02:39

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5-1. we're through. End of. Couldn't ask for more in match in which a shock was clearly considered a possibility by 5live and others, and to be fair on form before Weds, you couldn't blame them !.
Jamie Crowley
23   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:11:00

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Trevor -

We should sell Jags and put Heitinga in at CB - his true positon.

The tackle was atrocious and shoulda been a red IMO. But the guy plays hard and most importantly plays it out of the back on the deck.

Arsenal are completely over-valuing Jags and we should cash in.

If that doesn't happen, then cash in on Heitinga to the highest bidder and keep Jags. But I like it the other way around.

To say Heitinga is the worst Dutch international ever is silly. He a very good CB - he's an absolutely shitty CDM in the Carsley role...
Brian Hill
24   Posted 08/01/2011 at 17:13:48

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Saha scored with his left foot
Jamie Barlow
25   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:21:07

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We shouldn't sell anyone. Especially one of our centre backs. Look at us when we have two injured and have to play Hibbo. Not good enough. If one had to go though, JH would be my choice. He doesn't want to be here in my opinion and there's been to much bullshit from his lips.
Mike Green
26   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:33:36

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Where's the bloody clean sheet!

Jamie Crowley
27   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:53:29

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Jamie -

Forgot to mention - take £1-2 Million of the £12 million supposedly there for jags and buy cover.

Understand if you want JH to go. One of them needs to.

Jags is overvalued and a good sell
JH has an attitude - but I argue if he'd of been playing CB where he SHOULD have the attitude would be non-existent. But if he left I'd cry no tears.

BTW - I hear your arguement but Nev can play there, Hibbo (yeah, yeah), and wtf about Duffy? If you bought a servicable CB with the Jags spoils there's plenty of cover at CB.
Jamie Crowley
28   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:57:09

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Oh, and assuming Jags is in for £12M and you buy at £2M CB, we're £10M to the good.

We kinda need money....
Nathan Ward
29   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:53:35

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Thanks Ryan #16 - I spent about 15 mins trying to work that out from the fa website !!

Thought it was a very professional performance and the team in the past two games have looked more balanced than it has for months.

However IMO thats as much to do with having the ball played out of defence from Distin/Heitinga as much as having two forwards.
Michael Upton
30   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:53:06

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I don't understand. Why no abuse for Hibbert and Osman? 8-)

I have to agree with Liam Appleby and Mike Allison - the instinctive negativity in some parts is unbelievable. You'd think we were a Bolton and had just scraped through.

5-1 away from home is just fine by me, thanks. If someone had offered beforehand that Everton would win by 4 and both strikers would be on the scoresheet I would have snatched their hands off.
But oh no, it's only Moyes 5th big win in 9 years. Get him out, eh?

Honestly, talk about glass half empty.
Michael Upton
31   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:00:35

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Just noticed the bit about "defenders outscoring the strikers". In what sense, exactly?
Hasn't Seamus Coleman been playing at right wing most of this season? Or have I missed something?
Chris Jones
32   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:09:05

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Just back from game.

Great atmosphere today, some nice renditions of a few 80s classics and a few great tunes for Felli and Phil Nevilla. A balanced and at times exciting performance with some really lovely goals. I thought everyone performed well although I still have concerns over Johnny H, don't think he's the most solid defender in the world.

Really enjoyed it though - it made a difference not having players in the team who slow the game down and take five touches when one will do - namely Pienaar, Arteta and Cahill. Love them all but we were slicker and more clinical without them. That said, it wasn't Brazil we were playing - bring on King fuckin Kenny and the Red Shite.
Matt Flann
33   Posted 08/01/2011 at 18:50:46

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We may have tonked them, they were a very, very poor side, but even so they took the first chance that they created (really a long hopeful ball that caught Distin out).

I have read numerous irate posts over the past two weeks regarding DM not picking any strikers to play up front and I agree it has been unbelievable... until you see how bad Saha and Beckford really are.

Saha cannot pass or knock down a ball to save his life. Today he really took the biscuit every touch, pass by him was to the opposition. He cannot tackle or put himself about, he looking up in the sky pouting when he makes a bad touch.. which is a lot of the time.

Beckford is even worse, he has no touch whatsoever, he's not a footballer, period. It's unbelievable he is in the Premier League, he would be a very poor part-time pub player.

I think Victor can play a bit, but only up front likewise with Yak. I cannot understand what is going on with Vaughany and Moyes.. He may not have played much (injuries) but he is way ahead of Saha and Beckford with the effort he puts in. I mean did you see the defensive clearence near the end by Beckford... he must have have thought there was an opponent's goal nearby, the cowardly way he poked the ball, I mean it's unbelievable.

Steve Round saying how good a finisher he is.. (after the match) how good his performance was... uh???

John Ford
34   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:21:44

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Taken from Home page.

..."Giving David Moyes 'only' his 5th big win in 9 seasons at Everton."

Moyes Out....

(jesus wept)

indeed, a truly pointless fact.
Michael Upton
35   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:25:12

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I'd rather be a Blues fan right now than a Barcode. Nice one, Stevenage.
Let's just be happy with what we got today, eh?
Chris Jones
36   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:30:25

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#33 Matt Flann

Unbelievable comment - in fact one of the worst I've ever read on TW. They are strikers and they both scored. They linked play well, moved well, worked hard, used their pace, touch and guile intelligently. Beckford's cross for Seamus was quality.

Moyes and the strikers have deserved some stick this season, but not today - your comments are a joke. If he puts faith in those two they will get the results - they've played together twice and we won both games.
Matt Flann
37   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:20:52

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One more thing on Little Ossie played well in spots today.. The main problem with Ossie is that he has no speed and it gets him into trouble when he trys to run with the ball and take on players. I mean nobody does a better Stevie G la la than Ossie, the only difference being he doesn't get the calls from the ref.

When he loses the ball in the centre of midfield, it puts the team under a lot of pressure as he tends to lay there with his hands clutching his head and even when he gets right up, he is too slow and ? like a lot of others in the side ? can only tackle a hot lunch.

Nathan Ward
38   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:43:36

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Bad day for the North East.

And judging by the incident after the Stevenage match more trouble for Newcastle than just losing
Jamie Tulacz
39   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:44:06

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Fran (14)- agree with you completely on Beckford. Took the goal with a great instinctive header, but blazed some terrible finishing when he had time to think.

Still it's good to have an attacking player with a bit of pace and movement.
Gerry Quinn
40   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:52:30

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#38 Nathan ? what happened after ? I think I saw a player being punched? Was that by a fan?
James Lauwervine
41   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:50:33

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Agree with Chris #36, total nonsense from Matt. Beckford is clearly improving and will continue to do so. Would a hat-trick against the RS shut you up?
Nathan Ward
42   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:00:04

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Gerry - yeah a 'fan' threw a punch and totally took the Stevenage left back out.

Will try and post a link if I can....
David Hallwood
43   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:59:45

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Gutted. I has us to win 3-1 and the RS to lose 2-0 for £800. Moyes Out!
Simon Jenkins
44   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:02:04

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Just back from Scunny, had a great time. Great performance by the lads, 5 different scorers too. I'm made up. Onwards and upwards... just hope we don't 'follow the script' for the 'Dalglish homecoming parade' derby next Sunday. Hope Moyes is positive and plays 2 up front at Anfield, and not pack the midfield with 5. Obviously a difference between Scunny and L'pool, but the overall effect of playing 4-4-2 isn't. Saha looks a decent player again, getting his confidence back. Beckford is helping him by dragging defenders away with some good runs. Baines was phenomenal today, and Fellaini did really well today too.
John Audsley
45   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:53:56

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Glad the yellow card business has been sorted, need both those blokes next week.

Reckon JH is a top CB and hope he stays but doubt it, plus if we got offered £8-10M then I'd take the cash to strengthen. Let's face it, we are only going to buy if we sell

An enjoyable day all round to be fair and really enjoyed the forum today.... ToffeeWeb Live Matchday Forum is a bit like being at the game, very positive when thrashin someone, edgy when it's close and very sarcy when we are shite.

Any fan who doesn't understand that sarcasm/realism is part of being a blue needs a slap.

Agree/Disagree we all say it as we see it and THAT boys/girls is what this site IS ALL about.
Jon Cox
46   Posted 08/01/2011 at 19:55:44

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Gerry, or Nathan first i've heard of this. What happened?
John Audsley
47   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:09:00

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Nathan 42

Fuckin Hell... even the missus had to see that one

His own fan???????

Wonder if he'd been sleepin with his wife/lost him a bet/sold him a dodgy car???

Very nice!
Jon Cox
48   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:12:52

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John (45) even if they're not a fan. Like Collina. Can I slap him first?
Matt Flann
49   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:12:33

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Well said.. John #45
Jamie Crowley
50   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:11:41

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Matt Flann -

Did i just read that you rate Anichebe over Beckford and Saha? How much you been drinkin?

I have to agree with others, your comments are other-worldly.

You're slaggin of Beckford is just shameful. The kid ran and opened up acres of space, scored one, and his cross to Seamus was just beautiful.

I'd rather watch that kid run around for 90 minutes than Anichebe the tank fall over when the breeze pops up then throw his arms out wondering why the ref didn't call a foul - nevermind the Yak put in a 35% effort for his 12 million pounds or whatever the fuck it was.
Jon Cox
51   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:22:44

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The Beckford header. If Torres had scored that then we'd be hearing about it for ever and a day. Give the lad a chance. Look what Timmy turned into.
Matt Flann
52   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:24:24

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Jamie (30)

Read it again Jamie..nuff said
Denis Richardson
53   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:27:26

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5-1 and through, good solid performance and name still in the hat.

As already mentioned above, prefer the JH and Distin partnership as JH can actually pass the ball. Also last year when he got a run at CB he was quality. If Arsenal are really offering that much for Jags, take it and by a cover CB for less - or recall Yobo from loan, if that is possible.

Roll on the next game and hope Moyes keeps to the 2 recognised forwards as well as the surprisingly positive attitude - is he finally beginning to see the light? Time will tell. The RS are crap at the moment, just hope the new manager/dalglish effect does not kick in just yet. Really could have done with Hodgson still being in charge for that one:-)...
Jon Beck
54   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:24:27

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Just got back too, great day out, very friendly place, generally good performance. Fellaini the star player for me. I was stood by the Louis Saha Fan Club (yes I'm being ironic!). Apparently he is playing just as badly ass ever, except he is scoring goals. That sounds like an improvement to me but hey ho. Anyway onward and upward.
Guy Rogers
55   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:39:12

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Regarding the "Shall we sell JH or Jags?" ? it won't happen we have discussed on previous posts Moyes is no Redknapp, he does not see the benefit of wheeling and dealing to sell one good player to gain another but the latter bringing better balance to the team and hence benefit...

Great win today; I'm backing the Beckford and Saha brigade!
Jon Cox
56   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:39:28

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is he finally beginning to see the light? A better question would be; Does he read Toffeeweb in the bath with his laptop?
Denis Richardson
57   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:45:23

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@Jon 55, not sure what your post is about.

DM seeing the benefit of playing positively as well as with 2 recognised forwards and being a bit more flexible in formation, does not have anything to do with TW.

Jon Cox
58   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:56:31

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And your empirical evidence is.....???
Jon Cox
59   Posted 08/01/2011 at 20:58:21

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Just to say have a look back in the TW archives I think you'll find a fair few posters myself included who have advocated 4-4-2. Like I say this has been going on for ages, at least since the downturn of our fortunes.

Also, how do you know Moyes doesn't read TW? If I was a manager, I would want my finger on the fans' pulse.
John Audsley
60   Posted 08/01/2011 at 21:01:05

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Jon 48

Yes, but you've got a very long line behind you!!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
61   Posted 08/01/2011 at 21:03:40

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If you know your history...

For many years, I have consistently highlighted any big win with a reference to our Big Wins page. But I guess I should not be surprised that such a reference to the full historic record of Everton's Big Wins would get the backs up of our resident Moyes apologists ? for the simple reason that his record in this department pales in comparison to any other era in Everton's history.
Brian Garside
62   Posted 08/01/2011 at 21:20:56

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Michael #30.
Every time Osman is made captain we win!!!
Drop him!!!
Happy now?
Jon Cox
63   Posted 08/01/2011 at 21:28:41

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Michael, dont worry about it mate. Most of us on here will take a big win and enjoy it to it's full. But we know they're a one off. All teams have a big win now and again. It does not reflect the big picture of how a season transpires.

I would have been as happy today with a 2-0 as I was with a 5-1. History will say that we were better than them to the tune of a four goal margin ON THE DAY. Thats it. We still lost against Brentford.

For me there were a lot of positives in todays game and the biggest one concerned Mr Moyes. If I'm right then 4-4-2 it will be next week. If i'm wrong it's back to the Dr. David Kelly handbook of "how to get the most out of your life sitting in a wood"
Liam Wilson
64   Posted 08/01/2011 at 21:31:18

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#33 Matt Flann

...I'll have a pint of whatever you've been drinking!
Mike Allison
65   Posted 08/01/2011 at 23:53:10

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Jon and John, sorry lads but Moyes reads my comments specifically, not the whole of Toffeeweb. I've backed him for years, defended him from lots of criticism, then last week I said I'd had enough and he had to change and play positively and immediately that's what happened. I also said I wanted to see Bilyaletdinov and Gueye involved today and hey presto... What more possible evidence could you need?

I'll also take this opportunity to reiterate that we're definitely going to win the league this year because of the 24 year rule. I've had my doubts but I'm back on board now...

But seriously folks... Michael, you presented a fact in a particular negative way, unnecessarily, when it could just as easily have been presented in a positive way. Moyes failed to record big wins in his first six years or so, but managed scarcely believable (at the time) amounts of 1-0 wins, including us coming 4th in the league against all odds, with a decidedly limited playing staff. I remember Walter Smith having some huge wins, one of which was a pointless (but fun) end of season blow out, but also lots of 0-0 home draws with five or six defenders on the pitch. I'd rather have five 1-0 wins than one 5-0 win, and that's what Moyes gave us in those 'big win' free years. What's got people's backs up is your selection of the fact in the way you've presented it as an important or pertinent point, when it really isn't.
Jon Cox
66   Posted 09/01/2011 at 00:15:43

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Mike I read about two thirds of......

Shit my cookers going ape shit, Talk to you soon J J C
Matt Flann
67   Posted 08/01/2011 at 23:42:27

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Okay guys, sadly I've not had one drink today. I watched our game with Scunthorpe on the telly. Very early in the second half as they scored their goal, we looked panicky, it started to look like we were going to regret all the chances we scorned in the first period. Easy chances and in areas where we should score, Beck's was clean through 2-3 times and Bily at least one time. Both seemed to stumble and toe poke the ball when it would be easier to score. I think the Scunthorpe striker (Forte) would have scored in those spots. How long are we going to keep making excuses for these guys. We won by four today against a very sad little team and it's partytime. A win like this cannot paper over the fact that we don't have one decent striker, one that would walk straight onto any other premierships first team. You hear all the rumors knocking about during the transfer window but I don't see anybody kicking down our door to buy any of our strikers. We paid big money for Yak which is disappointing, Saha is a rethread, Vic and Vaughny are homegrown and Becks a non-league rethread. Goals equal wins and these guys, when they play, don't score enough goals. We blame Moyes tactics for this when in reality these guys just don't make the most of their oppertunities. I don't think any of these players have a future at this club, (or any club for that matter) we don't have a lot of money and we cannot afford to hang onto players who don't perform. A strikers job is to score goals and failing to do so means you've no future in this business and the sooner people accept that the better. I also believe Andy Johnson would have put away some of those chances today, sadly when he played for us we didn't play the joined up stuff, only long ball merchants. Now that we are knocking the ball around It would be nice to have at least one striker who could convert the easy oppertunities. The skunks lost today maybe we should try for Leon Best, I know he's their third choice striker but he seems to know where the oppositions goal is. We play better football when JH is at center back as he passes the ball better that Jags, he keeps the ball down more than Jags. Big Vic tried to play some balls through for Becks, but Becks wasn't on the same wavelength, he just doesn't have the instinct for the game, just my opinion..
Simon Temme
68   Posted 09/01/2011 at 00:43:11

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Sorry to be off message, however it's no fun celebrating a fan (home or away) punching a player.

Home fan = WTF = Ban him

Away Fan = WTF = Ban him.

If idenified = life long ban = get this cobblers out of football.
Roman Sidey
69   Posted 09/01/2011 at 01:24:13

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Another negative about Moyes only having 5 big scores in his 9 years is that none of them accompany clean sheets.
A POSITIVE way of looking at this is like this:
Scunthorpe - 1-0,2-0, 2-1, 3-1,4-1,5-1
Huddersfield - 1-0,2-0, 2-1, 3-1,4-1,5-1
Hull - 1-0,1-1,2-1, 3-1,4-1,5-1
SK Brann - 1-0,2-0,3-0,3-1,4-1,5-1,6-1
Sunderland - 1-0,2-0,3-0,3-1,4-1,5-1,6-1,7-1
Point - We started well in all these games, then dropped off, then picked up again and went on with the job.
This however is missing in a lot of our games over the last few seasons.
On Osman, look at the goal he scored in the 7-1 rout of Sunderland. This is when I wrote him off, and I think it sums up his real attitude. He also did something similar against City a few weeks ago when he had 2 players to pass to, and he went himself and fucked it up.
Mike Green
70   Posted 09/01/2011 at 04:39:27

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Matt Flann - the jury's out whether Beckfords a true PL striker but to call him a pub player is pretty ridiculous. If we play to the boys strengths and get behind him he'll get us 20 a season which for a free transfer would buy us a pub chain never mind a pub player. We had a great result today which he contributed to so why slag him off?
John Ford
71   Posted 09/01/2011 at 15:33:29

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Michael K

Everyone is aware of your views on Moyes. You use the site to portray that. Fair enough, you put the effort into the site so its your prerogative and I'd do the same under the circumstances.

Please dont insult my or anypone elses inteligence by referring to Moyes supporters as 'apologists'. You will have worked out that despite your own limitations in seeing the bigger picture and taking a balanced view, there is a logic to this position. It's based around examining our achievments relative to other non 'Sky Four' teams within the context of a lop sided modern game, which makes his task very difficult. That doesn't mean I or any other supporters don't see his faults, but I see them relative to others bigger problems and poorer returns over the years.

You continue to deny, despite the glaringly obvious evidence (take the blinkers off and read it) that Everton's (and other teams) lack of resources is a significant factor in our failure to win trophies and be successful. Unfortunately your vendetta against Moyes appears all consuming so you ignore these facts... it is why the same teams are winning everything... geddit!?

David Thomas
72   Posted 09/01/2011 at 19:12:16

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"The skunks lost today maybe we should try for Leon Best, I know he's their third choice striker but he seems to know where the oppositions goal is"

Are you sure you have not been drinking?????
Liam Appleby
73   Posted 09/01/2011 at 22:30:22

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John Ford

Take a bow son.

(extra points for spelling name wrong and saying sorry)
Michael Kenrick
74   Posted 10/01/2011 at 06:34:23

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Sorry, folks, but I reject the resources argument.

With a more positive determined manager, we should have gone on to win the 2009 FA Cup FInal, with the resources we had. We lost that final because Moyes bottled it.

We should have finished last season in a much better position with the resources we had that produced some great form in the second half of the season.

We should be in a much better position this season with the resources we have but we are not primarily as a result of Moyes's incompetence.

And along the way, it would have been nice to have had a lot more big wins to savour.
Mike Green
75   Posted 10/01/2011 at 08:07:44

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But Michael - is it not David Moyes who has assembled those resources to set your trophy winning expectations so high?
Sam Morrison
76   Posted 10/01/2011 at 11:03:05

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Unbelievably I find myself sympathising with Michael somewhat here, though I still think it's his manner that causes these mini-storms rather than the views he espouses.

I don't think it's objectivity that causes him to A. highlight how few 'big wins' we've had or B. refer to a large section of posters as Apologists (TW is not negative remember, it's a myth... yawn...). I also disagree that money/resources play no part in how the team perform. In fact his continued insistence that it has no bearing is kind of surreal.

That said, even though I'm forever grateful to Moyes I do sympathise with Michael's frustrations. I remember watching Everton in the 2009 cup final wondering when we were going to step up a gear - we never did. I watch us batter big teams on a semi-regular basis and then play like a shower against mediocre teams. Thing is, my take on it is Moyes thrives on being the underdog, and that's when his team generally perform best. That's the mindset we have to break out of if our gratitude for Moyes is not to sour as we watch an extremely talented squad tread water again and again against premier league teams who are set up to defend.

Roman Sidey
77   Posted 10/01/2011 at 11:40:29

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Need to clear up - I don't want Moyes to be sacked. I want him to keep doing what he's done for the last 2 games, and feel he has cheated the supporters by not doing it earlier.

The so called 'Sky Four' only existed because other teams let them. Play attactive football and see the money pour in. And on that, if this is the only reason why we haven't won any trophies, why the fuck do Portsmouth have an FA Cup in the last two years?
Liam Appleby
78   Posted 10/01/2011 at 14:16:35

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"we should have gone on to win the 2009 FA Cup FInal" MK

Sorry but 'should' is a strong word isnt it Michael?


I went to the cup final in 'hope' that we could triumph. Before and after the game i never thought we 'should' win or have won that game. I was dissapointed with Moyes for starting with Hibbert, they tortured him first half....but having said that... considering we had the spine of our team removed we were always going to be up against it.
KPR Williams
79   Posted 10/01/2011 at 13:55:19

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I'd read or heard to word 'apologist' probably a handful of times in my 41 years before I entered the world of TW...
It seems anybody who disagrees with the mandate is automatically branded an 'apologist.' everybody is entitled to an opinion but if it differs from the party line then you are an imbecile..
Personally, I thought we lost the FA cup because we came up against a good team of very expensively assembled players. While we had a threadbare squad missing Jagielka (when he was on top of his game) and Arteta (who was the best playing the best football of his life, before his injury). Subs used,Vaughan, Jacobsson and Gosling, enough said really.
They brought on Ballack because Essien wasn't having his best game..
It was the haves against the have nots, Moyes is far from blameless for things that have happened at the club but dont blame him for injuries and our failure to assemble a squad of very highly paid international stars.

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