There are 3 days to go before the window shuts and acquiring what is need to sustain a push for the top 4 will be difficult. Clubs with far bigger budgets than Everton would find it difficult to make the necessary signings at this stage.

"You learn from experiences like this. You take knocks in life but the key is to be strong and to fight back."

Ok, its not Martin Luther, but given the disappoint he's facing, I think it's good to start here. We have a couple of days before the window shuts, so it will be interesting to see if we can produce a statement intent. It's easy to get stuck in hyperbole after a scoreline like that, and this is not a career defining moment for Roberto, but without further attacking options now Lukaku's out, we aren't going to set the world alight and there's a danger those who are more fickle (players, staff and fans a like - media it's a given) then undo the strides we've made this season.

Stick or twist is a very good analogy.

If it was me, and the right striker was striker available, I would have no problem whatsoever about paying over the odds to get him in now.

Martinez made £4m more out of the Fellaini transfer than he had any right to and the same goes for Anichebe, so it's swings and roundabouts.

So - go for it Roberto, twist, but if you do please, please, please set the team up to give them the service they deserve.

Remember, this is a season of transition so it is next season that we should be expecting to see results. No dropped points early season whilst players adjust to a new system, a better squad with more Martinez style players and a proper tilt at the title.

All built on the back of an FA cup win.

Who knows we could follow the eighties, win the FA Cup, followed by League Title, Europa League (CWC) and another FA Cup final, only this time we'll win it.

Traore is no more than a lampost with no pace, go and buy speed merchants with an eye for goal for fucks sake.

For all the revisionism on here Moyes used to do the same. I think he finally clocked on towards the end and would just devolve the match into a goofing contest to give neither team a platform to work from. It’s no coincidence that the sides who do well against Liverpool are Villa and Pulis’s Stoke, defensive teams who don’t have the ball in midfield long enough to get caught on the break.

If we continue down this road with Martinez we all have to accept that playing teams like Liverpool (and probably Villa)- teams who do t really play in midfield- will be difficult . First year for a while though we can’t just blame one of Moyes Osman or Hibbert. Maybe someone will actually have a look at the tactics for once.

They have such a lead over us in finances and talent already there, that we would have been hard pressed to beat them even if all our players had been fully fit.

I think that the worst thing is that it had to happen at their place that the wheels fell off somewhat in defence but in my view we've seen some really scary passages in defence over the weeks and last night we paid for it.

It would probably have made a difference for us if Gerry and Dizzy had been fit and playing but this just shows us how tiny our squad is, when injuries hit.

No matter how hard we try (and there has been a good improvement in the style of football we play) we cannot turn overnight into C/L condenders. I thought we would be doing well to finish in the top eight and I still think so, with perhaps a good chance of finishing in sixth.

Until Roberto can bring in more more quality players in, we are unlikely to get much higher.

I can't see much chance of us getting in any top quality players in January, so it looks like we'll have to make do until the Summer. Regardless of the results we have had so far, I can only say that of the matches that I have seen this season, Everton have produced somne excellent football, which I think will get more consistent, if we can bring in more quality players; and that looks like it's only going to be on the drip

Maybe this match will shoe RM that there are different tactics that he can try but, to me, more focus needs to come on why we cannot compete in spending power with at least eight clubs, probably more, in the Premiership.

You just know that the team with the money and better quality players will more often win. Three wins from the last 29 against Liverpool is clear proof of this.

We harp on about having a better squad than Liverpool so we are going to thrash them when the derby arrives but the reality is, and has been for the last 15 years, they have better match winners like Sturridge, Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho and they always play the match with a burning desire to win.
They play with all the gusto and 110 mph pace that you would like to see Everton play, and nearly every time they do it we have no answers.

It was the same when we went to Anfield in March 2005, billed as the biggest derby for years due to both clubs wanting 4th..They blew us away in a frantic first 25 minutes, ok it ended 2-1 but the damage was done already.

The same thing happened when they had Gerrard sent off early on in 2006, and in 2010 when Kyrgiakos went, they just want it more and when you want it more you generally win.

The main difference is that Roberto’s plan A has the potential to be much more attractive than Moyes Plan A ever was. Will Martinez learn from this? Well, one thing he has learnt is that honeymoons don’t last forever. Losing to your local rivals by the biggest scoreline in over 30 years will certainly take the gloss of him for a number of our supporters. The real test lies ahead. How will he get the players back up for Saturday’s game?

What Martinez has got to do now is be true to his word. He stated that we would be a much stronger squad after the closure of the transfer window so I would suggest we do something now to salvage what we can of making an attempt for the top 5, forget the top 4, even before last night, I have been saying for weeks we don't look good enough in front of goal.

We can only hope this Traore can be fit soon because we win shite all in the air now that Fellaini has gone. I have said time and time again its ok playing pretty football but you need to have other options and right now we can put a cross into the box because we don't have a single damn player who is liable to score a header..When is the last time we scored a header??

Barry has had three poor games on the spin now and to me looks leggy and tired, makes you wonder if the demands of every match is catching him up... Even McCarthy has started looking sluggish lately, never got anywhere near Liverpool all night.

Pienaar maybe isn't fit okay (when is he ever these days?). Barkley needs to get back to full fitness and start doing the same as what he was before he got injured... He has to be our Gerrard in many ways, that's the ultimate goal for the lad. We need to see McGeady start on Saturday.

It won't be an easy game against Villa. They are a side we rarely beat at Goodison and they seem to thrive on playing away from home with the pace on the break and I am a little concerned that their youthful running will test our weary looking legs. Not many sides run Liverpool at Anfield but I watched them there last week and they were as good as the Redshite.

It's a dangerous game for Everton but one which nothing less than THREE points will be good enough from because at this stage of the season we usually find that whilst our rivals grown stronger we tend to grow weaker and weaker.. For fuck's sake, let's buck the trend and the least I want to see on Saturday is some urgent pressing and will to win. Too often lately Everton are starting slow and almost waiting for things to happen, its gone back to the chess games of the first few matches of the season again.

I know I can't understand that either. The only real conclusion I came to looking back over the years it's since Steven Gerrard came on the scene.

I hate the guy but in many ways admire him too. I admire his love for them and the fact that he is so desperate not to lose, in fact he is desperate to beat us badly and unlike our players over the years, he backs up the big talk with big performances.

We just don't have anybody with Gerrard's heart anymore. Yet again I see the pictures in the paper today of Gerrard's header, and it brought back memories of Andy Carroll scoring the winner at Wembley two years ago, caught perfectly in the photograph, it's a Liverpool player out-jumping an Everton player again... Just like when Carroll out jumped Fellaini.

They just seem to know what it means to their fans more than we do nowadays and that's sad.

The only player who knew what it meant was Tim Cahill. You got the feeling that was one guy who relished Anfield and knew what it meant... Other than that we have too many guys who just cruise through it with a bruised nose.

For a number of games including the Arsenal match, we did that splendidly. Against Liverpool at our place, I thought we were the better team.

So my view is that we will see how things develop. I don't expect him to change us during the course of half a season, into the complete outfit. I think he's done well so far. He reckonsd it is a work in progress and I think it's going to take a couple of years, at least, to get us on a level with the top six of the Premiership; and even that will depend on what transfer budgets he has to work with.

I think we’re going in the right direction and if we had the players to play Martinez’s system now, we’d make top 4. As it is we just don’t have the players and squad depth. Give him a season or two and at least a half decent transfer kitty and we’ll see a really really good Everton team. Unfortunately, as I’ve said a few times, money talks.

I do believe in Martinez (albeit I wish he had a Plan B).

If blue bill was in charge in the 80’s and give Kendall ten bob to spend in Morgan’s on Bold St he’d still want change.

It will be business as usual on Saturday with us looking like the top 4 contenders we have been for two seasons now. We’ve finished ahead of them for two years and no one mentioned money when Moyes got beat there. The squads are evenly matched and the league positions prove this.

The difference is all about how you approach that one game. For them it’s their cup final. For us we’re beaten before the fixture list is out. In the past they were better than us but recently they’re not and recent losses there and at Goodison have not been down to the manager, or weakened teams, or even referees sometimes. It’s down to a group of players with not one Corinthian amongst them . None of them should even be talking about the school if science .

What I’d give for a Ball or Reid in this team. Just a completely different nature of player. They actually took an ounce of responsibility for our results unlike the current squad and that’s why they won stuff unlike the current squad. Let’s enjoy the cup run until a game of any sort of pressure comes round. All Moyes though wasn’t it?

We still have most of the players that Moyes has bought and some are top class, some are not. We've made some improvements but we are not yet on par with the clubs around the top six, regarding depth of squad.

I have said it on this site before, we are leaderless on the park. Jagielka was responsible for two if not three of the goals. He should also have directed Stones through the game.

Only Mirallas came out with credit. I'm not making excuses but look what we were able to field last night. Two of our back four were carrying injuries, Stones was exposed on his first derby and Baines has been out of form for most of this season.

Our midfield is in need of a break. Both McCarthy and Barry are looking tired and leggy. Pienaar is not up to it anymore. He is no longer putting in good performance on a regular enough basis. Mirallas put in a shift last night. Lukaku has been shite for two months and is not performing to the levels required.

Roberto got it wrong last night with the high line. After the first goal he should have told them to drop at least ten yards back; this would have diminished the effect of their long ball over the top.

We only have to look at our bench and see that the board is also getting it wrong. Naismith, Gueye and Ossie are not fit for any team trying to get European action next year. I can't for the life of me see how we are stronger in squad terms at this time as the only two we brought in are McGeady and the telephone pole who incidentally is injured.

It's up to Billy and the board to support Roberto and show him the money now and in the summer. If they don't they will lose him to a more progressive club.

I could not believe it when I saw the team with so many unfit players in from the start. Jagielka, Alcaraz, Barkley and Pienaar are still carrying injuries. I think Roberto made a mistake and picked the team with his heart not his head. It was madness to put so many injured players on against the best strike team in the PL.

Better to stick to what we had at Stevenage, put Barkley on the bench and see where we go. It was after all 3 points. We now have Lukaku possibly out for the season, have we all broken mirrors this year or what? And a dejected group of players.

It is over now we move on. The quote from Baby Bryan is good and he is now my top player at the club. I never thought we would make the top 4 when we lost Deulofeu and we have to accept it.

We also have to accept that we do not have the financial clout of a lot of the Premier League, like Man Utd with a debt of £68 million and continue to support the club.

Over the past two seasons we’ve finished ahead of then and are near them now so how can their squad be fundamentally better? I still think we’ll finish ahead of them because their mentality when not playing us or United is shocking. Unfortunately that counts for nothing in the one off games.

Will the Board provide Martinez with the resources to win even this modest duel?

I doubt it.

1) Pienaar should've been subbed early on as everything he did was useless.

2) There was too much reliance on using the wings and not enough penetration through the middle; play always ended up left to right and vice versa with the end result being a cross from the wings or pass on the ground from the wings... too predictable.

3) If two players keep passing the ball back and forth to each other repeatedly, wasting time, then someone isn't moving into their correct position.

4) Osman did okay when he came on but — if he and Naismith are our most threatening players to come on when we are chasing a game — then we are fucked; both shouldn't be here next year.

5) We need another attacking midfielder who can thread balls through from midfield like Barkley who could challenge him for his position.

6) If we do get Lukaku next year it won't be enough, Lukaku and Kone will not be enough, we need more strikers,

7) Mirallas was one of our better players last night but he should be scoring more goals for his selfishness.
8)We haven't got enough fire power in our attacking players, Pienaar, Mirallas and Barkley are not getting enough goals in those positions, I can understand Barkley is still learning but the other two should be doing much better.

Still, all it takes is for them to loose one game and were only a point behind, there's plenty of time for that and if we could beat them to 4th then that will hurt them more than this scoreline hurts us. As much as I don't like to admit it I would of accepted that if offered at the beginning of the season.

I also worry that last night's battering will provide the 'How to Beat Everton For Dummies' quick fix for managers facing us in the coming weeks.

Basically, sit back and lump the ball forward on the counter and your golden, in large part due to our very attacking system. It works better when Coleman is on, Stone just didn't know where he was.

Martinez has had his hand forced with injuries and I admire his philosophy, no risk no rewards. But to send out a back four in that shape against the best attacking line in the league bar Man City was naive in the extreme. It was a sign as soon as I saw John Stones and Alcaraz both on the team sheet. A central pairing playing for the first time both with fitness issues and a very inexperienced centre back playing on the right was too much risk against the aggressive, speed merchants in Liverpool's line up. That said we still would have been beaten but it definitely cost us a goal and had us all over the place.

Injuries just took their toll in the end but I thought Pienaar was absolutely woeful and I really think his time is up. So many bad performances all over the park I think only Mirallass and McCarthy can hold their heads up.

Next week get Distin back, somebody at right back, Deulofeu and Traore and McGeady involved and we'll get back to winning and keep the pace for 4th but it's a long shot now.

I was also dismayed to read and have no reason to disbelieve the article, that Jags was really pushed to play by the manager, when he himself didn't think he was fit enough.

So RM says it's a work in progress, and you think it will take a couple of years at least. Let's not forget that RM inherited a top 6 team packed with international players plus at least £25 million to spend.

And remember that DM took over a team that was fighting relegation, and within a few years and no money still managed to finish 4th.

So come on Roberto, it's at least top 6, no excuses please.

The defense primarily needs to defend which means Baines can’t go on a suicide run every single attack, Stones shouldnt be tasked with creating every attack for us. I mean what did the midfield do apart from filter it sideways for the full backs? Nothing.

A lot of the blame for our attacking woes lies with the slow conservative nature of the midfield two. You could have Messi upfront but if he’s got 7 defenders round him because you’ve taken ten minutes to get up the pitch he’s useless. People still think the answer is just to buy yet another striker. How about skmekne finally stumps up some cash for a playmaker for crying out loud who can pass forward.

With a fully fit squad and first choice players, I do believe we have the talent to beat them though.

I don't want to knock the lad after a bad injury - but does anyone think Lukaku is worth a reputed £25m? He's just not a good enough footballer to justify that price tag foe me.

There are not enough adjectives for me to describe our record against them, since they got promoted to the 1st division back in 1962, my stomach actually churns, it really is disgusting, pathetic & only when we had Joe Royle as manager, with the Big Yin leading the line, did we scare the shit out of them & they were the ones that hardly won!! Nothing can coat over, or change that abject performance last night, or the previous season either, when Gerrard scored that hat-trick, like most of us on here, I am venting, hurting, angry, yet looking for some light in this awful gloom, but as I have said previously prior to this posting, let's see how we are doing when we get most of our squad back, sadly this result will live with us for quite some time!!

Excellent report Lyndon, nailed it as usual!!

Well he did start with them and he’s now getting slated for doing so. The guy can’t win really. If he’d left them out and we’d lost he’d have been slated for not starting them.

I am sure that if any player RM was interested in came available, then I’m sure he’d try to buy him. It’s not worth buying a stop gap player for a quick fix, then not having the money available in the summer to strengthen properly.

As for the chairman willing to invest before the Transfer window closes, don t hold your breath as the only players available will be loan players who cant even get in their own clubs.

We have the players who are capable of achieving a position in the Europen cups the problem is we do not have the sqad to cover injuries.
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I think I will skip seeing the replay.

It was because we all went gung ho in search of goals.
They defended in numbers hit us on the break with great through balls, while their strikers timed their runs to perfection.

Usain Bolt couldn't have caught up with them once they were put through.

As for whoever was responsible for the throwing of missiles at our end of the ground – we don't need you... we don't want you and you can also do one. Fancy giving that odious excuse for a man a reason to put our club in a bad light.

"Liverpool striker Luis Suarez reports Everton fans throwing coins at him at Anfield. Striker informs referee that visiting supporters pelted him while he was preparing to take a corner."

One of the saddest things is now I have to admit that their ground (which my dad always used to refer to as 'The Barn') is better than ours.

Behind Lukaku we had Barkley, Barry and McCarthy, with Pienaar and Mirallas down the channels.

Liverpool had Suarez in the centre forward position supported wide by Sturridge and Sterling, with Coutinho, Gerrard and Henderson behind them.

Whilst Barkley has pace, drive and an eye for goal, I am yet to see any vision from him with regard to picking out other players runs. Mirallas is also in exactly the same mould, and not someone I would say is looking for other players. Our central duo are both defensive players that break up play or pass the ball out wide when in possession. Leaving Pienaar, who I cannot say is consistently good at playing quality balls through the centre. Wide man link up play seems to be his forte.

When we compare this to Liverpool, only Jordan Henderson could be considered as a defensive type player, yet he has managed 6 assists this season. This is the same number as Barry, McCarthy and Barkley combined.

To summarise, our weakness seems to be moving the ball forward too slowly, letting the opposing team get behind the ball. The reason for this appears to be we have nobody able to pick out a pass coming through the centre of the park. Lukaku seems to be one of these strikers that likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender looking to make runs. But I think its clear, we don't have anybody that that actually pick him out at the moment, hence the reason he is struggling and losing motivation and engagement. It seems such a waste to have this talented finisher, yet play a style that does not use his talents.

Without Coleman alone, we were destroyed on the right, factor in the not fully fit Barkley, Pienaar Jags and Alcaraz, the early injury to Lukaku and the missing Oviedo, Delboy, Distin etc, not to mention the introduction of inferior quality in Osman and Naismith, and even Tranmere would have beaten us last night.

I really believe our luck has to change and with the kopites having (Sewer Rat aside) an average team, I still think we can gain revenge by snatching 4th place from them. Roll on Villa and get this sour taste out of the system. Remember that 5-0 under Kendall, and what followed? COYB