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Jelavic unsettled by Kone's arrival

by | 16/07/2013  Comments (116)  jump
Nikica Jelavic has seen the new Everton boss raid former club Wigan for fellow striker Kone and fears being on the bench in a World Cup year. He wants to know what the future hold for him under the new manager.

The Mirror claims Jelavic will have talks about his Everton future with boss Roberto Martinez this week, having flown back to Merseyside after attending the Blues' friendly in Vienna and an extended break following international duty, and is seeking a decision on where he stands.

Jelavic has seen the new manager bring in Arouna Kone from Wigan, and wants to know where that puts him in the Goodison club's pecking order. Jelavic may be unlikely to hang around if he is not playing regularly in the build-up to next summer's World Cup finals.

Meanwhile, his agents want to know the asking price Everton have in mind if he can go in this summer's window.

Quotes or other material sourced from The Mirror

Reader Comments

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Chris Williamson
072 Posted 16/07/2013 at 07:49:44
Based on ...... the fevered imaginings of a lazy reporter who needs to produce copy?

I'm astounded newspapers still exist!

Sam Hoare
073 Posted 16/07/2013 at 07:49:34
If we could get 6-8m for him I would not be totally adverse to seeing him leave. Not totally convinced that we will see the heights of his first 6 months again though would love for him to prove me wrong.
Darren Warkcup
074 Posted 16/07/2013 at 07:47:57
I can understand his thinking but I would rather see a player get his head down, work hard and earn the place of 1st choice striker rather than go moaning to his agent who in turn stirs things straight up.

I was told he was a bit of a prima dona when things didn't go his way and maybe this is the start of it. If he isn't prepared to fight for his place, he is no use to us so sell now and look for a replacement; we have time on our side at the moment. I think he may rate himself higher than others... perhaps it is time for a dose of reality.

Ian Glassey
075 Posted 16/07/2013 at 07:53:46
His agent is trying to move him on, I would keep him for another season.

But to be honest I think Kone is Roberto's first choice, I think it will be a front 3 of
Deulofeu Kone and Super Kev.

Maybe we can use him in a swap deal somewhere..

Phil Sammon
077 Posted 16/07/2013 at 07:58:21
One of those stories that you just have to shake your head at. Absolutely zero substance to it and not even worth discussing.
John Brennan
078 Posted 16/07/2013 at 08:12:40
I'm with you, Sam.
We really have no idea how things are going to go for Jelavic this forthcoming season.
If we could get that much for him, I'd probably take it, but equally, I hope he stays and does well in a different system.
If he's as ineffective as he was last time, then theres' always the January window to get rid, but I hope it does'nt come to that.
Harry Wallace
079 Posted 16/07/2013 at 08:19:54
The Mirror quite often talks bullshit so not getting worried. I am hoping he gets back to his best next season.
Steve Edwards
080 Posted 16/07/2013 at 08:20:04
I'd be just happy with our money back but I doubt very much if we would get it.
Derek Knox
085 Posted 16/07/2013 at 09:02:52
I'm not going to mention paper talk or agents,because they are both a scourge on the game and football in general! I can't understand why players like Jelavic,arrive with a proven goal scoring history,have a big impact and then slump! Is it the player,or is it the way he was played?
Denis Richardson
086 Posted 16/07/2013 at 08:59:50
Depending on the system we play, we need to keep Jelavic to give us options up front. I think Kone is our first choice striker but we need decent back up for injuries and lack of form.

However, I cant see Jelavic being in the first XI in a 433 formation as he can't realy play in the wide areas and Kone will play down the middle.

Will be interesting to see how we play when all the players are back.

Andy Whittingham
088 Posted 16/07/2013 at 09:13:54
You won't get anywhere in the Premier League without options, an on fire Jelavic is as good as anything we've had since (maybe) Yakubu.

On the whole striker issue, personally thought Anichebe was a completely different player in the 2nd half of the season last year - I guess due to him being a) played, and b) not being played on the wing..

But my preference would be to play Mirallas up front, with Fellaini in behind, I guess leaving Kone to go right wing.

Bottom line is that we need as many options as possible.

Ben Dyke
089 Posted 16/07/2013 at 09:33:49
I heard that Jelavic caused some trouble in the dressing room last season with his attitude and I can believe that by his performances. I mean, unless you are totally in a sulk, how else do you go from one touch goal king to complete Brett Angell clone so quickly. This guy has a dodgy temperament and this 'story' goes some way to revealing it.

And don't start another thread about it being Moyes fault because he destroys strikers etc because the stats don't bear this out. I think Moyes destroys self centred twazzocks self centred twazzockness. And not because he is a self righteous buffoon, but because he knows what sours team spirit, and he recognises that what a team like Everton can do when they don't have money is have bags of spirit. Hence Tim Cahill etc loving it under him.

Sermon over. Come on Jelavic wake up and get over yourself and start banging in one touch finishes again

Derek Knox
091 Posted 16/07/2013 at 09:51:16
Ben ( 089) There's one from the past, Brett Angel ! I think his head must have been shaped like a threepenny bit, because when he headed the ball,it could have gone anywhere! Very, very rarely,towards the goal!
Trevor Powell
092 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:04:57
Brett Angel versus Bernie Wright? Who was the worst striker I have ever seen in the famous blue shirt?

Mind you the Biley/Mick Ferguson partnership could give then a run for their money based on their reputations and transfer prices!

Christopher Brown
094 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:06:51
I wouldn't be so quick to assume Kone has jumped ahead of Jelavic in Martinez's pecking order.

I think we'll see the manager start with Jelavic in the centre of a front three, with Kone, Deulofeu and Mirallas fighting it out for two flank positions (I think he will go with Deulofeu and Mirallas and have Kone as backup).

If Jelavic can't rediscover his form then think again, but I saw Kone as someone more dangerous at cutting in from the flanks in a front 3 rather than out and out centre forward.

Of course, I could be wildly wrong... as all we've had is one pre-season game to judge, we're all guessing!

Gavin Ramejkis
095 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:09:52
Derek I remember hearing after Angell left that he was finally fitted with contact lenses! You couldn't make this stuff up. I know a few years ago he lived out at Southport and to make extra cash actually worked evenings in the Tesco at Kew stacking shelves
Ged Simpson
097 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:22:03
I would like to see that career path for most footballers Gavin - keep them off the TV talking crap.

Love the contact lenses story

Ben Dyke
099 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:24:14
I knew Brett Angell's height would come in handy for something eventually, I just hoped it would have been on the pitch, but alas, no, its 15 years later and its to reach the top shelves at Tesco
Ged Simpson
101 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:36:57
He's coaching in New Zealand now
Phil Bellis
102 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:39:04
I give you...

Roderick Michael "Rod" Belfitt

Shane Corcoran
104 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:42:36
Who's this Jalavic fella? New man?
Kev Johnson
106 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:43:01
Good call, Phil. Nobody did it worse than Rod Belfitt.
Derek Knox
107 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:29:39
Gavin (095)
It says a lot about our scouting system, then in the 90's, I think Mike Walker was the manager (God Forbid) they had him watched on several occasions,playing for Southend, and never noticed his strike partner Stan Collymore!
As far as I know he is now coaching in New Zealand ! Whether it is in supermarket employment, stacking contact lenses or football is a matter of conjecture! Bad Memory Lane eh!
Kev Johnson
110 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:49:17
There are basically two types of centre forward: those who can play football and those who can "do a job" up front. Brett Angel was plainly in the first camp, but so was Paul RIdeout, who had his moments. Grant Holt is a modern day version. Oddly, this type of player is sometimes more successful than better footballers who have less of an engine and a poorer sense of teamwork. Think Saha - on his day, wonderful (IMO), but inclined to go missing or try an overhead kick from the halfway line. I mean, Beattie could usually be relied on to stand on the opposing centre back's toes at a corner kick, but Duncan Mackenzie didn't fancy that, he preferred doing keepy-uppy.

To be honest, I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make...

Derek Knox
111 Posted 16/07/2013 at 10:59:31
I was kind of wondering where that was leading Kev! A sort of Football Jack-a-nory!
Kev Johnson
114 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:06:20
Ha-ha! I specialise in shaggy dog stories, Derek!

Stay tuned for the next chapter...

Kieran Fitzgerald
117 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:12:50
I think Martinez would be made to sell Jelavic. The guy knows where the goal is. We now have the attacking options that will allow Jelavic to park himself in the opposition box. Just lay the ball on for him and most times he will take the chances.

He may be a bit of a sulk but if Martinez can man manage at all, he should be able to show that his way of playing football will give Jelavic chances.

Jimmy Sørheim
122 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:24:45
I think Kone was a gamble at that price, just as Moyes gambled with Jelavic. However, I would back Jelavic coming into goals again this season if he stays. Fellaini took it out of Jelavic in that Jelly seldom got the ball in the box.

There will be a change in formation and play and this WILL transform Jelavic back into the decent striker he is. Kone I think fits in behind Jelavic in a 4-4-1-1 alternating to 4-4-2 when attacking. However, 4-3-3 is risky with our defence not being comfy in passing the ball around.

I think Heitinga and Alcaraz might do better this season in this passing style of football.

Ingi Eyjolfz
125 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:32:39
To be honest if he starts scoring again he will probably be a big part of RM´s plans, if he doesn´t then he wont. Who needs a striker that doesn´t score goals?

The ball is in Jelavic´s court.

Paul Kelly
126 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:29:55
I agree that Jelly knows where the goal is....shame he can't hit the bloody thing.

Don't know if he should be more worried about Kone or the fact he's had his boots on the wrong feet for the past few months.

Lets hope he comes good (again).

Gavin Ramejkis
132 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:16:02
It does remind folk if they didn't live through it how bad some of our past players were, some right rogues. Angell was interviewed about working at Tesco on a local radio station years back, I heard it driving in the car and he came across as a reasonable enough guy who wasn't broke but realised his time on a gravy train had ended and was doing what he had to do to pay his bills.

Grant Holt is a prime example of a wardrobe with feet, Beattie was a more expensive version of the same thing, fortunately that ilk is fewer and far between these days.

Matt Traynor
134 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:46:38
Chris #072, first reply on this thread has it nailed for me. I'm surprised the journos name isn't Phil Space....
Colin Glassar
138 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:55:06
Rod Belfitt a name from a very dark and distant past. He later got work as the Marlborough man didn't he?
Steven Telford
141 Posted 16/07/2013 at 11:58:47
The answer is so simple:
If he performs he will be in the starting 11, its up to himself. No discussion is necessary. Same answer for every player. Should be one of the easiest elements of management.

He missed some sitters last season.

Bob Skelton
143 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:01:37
Jelavic is an enigma to me. I have never seen a striker change from scoring with a great first touch to a clueless parody of a footballer with no defining attributes.

Lets see which one turns up this season.

My problem with him is that we all know how high we would've finished if he could have continued with his initial form.

If we got a half decent offer for him we should take it with both hands....

Phil Sammon
149 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:12:41
Ben Dyke

I think it's totally unfair to label Jelavic as a troublemaker in the dressing room. I think the aftermath of his goal against Spurs showed just how well liked he is by the team.

One thing that may be relevant is that he was good mates with Mucha. Hopefully his exit doesn't affect him too much.

I don't think Jelavic will leave and in fact I think he'll do very well with Kone up there with him. Kone likes to pull out wide which will allow Jelavic to loiter in the box and play like we all want him to. All he needs to do is bang in a few goals.

Colin Glassar
150 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:25:03
Well Ossie has just poured cold water over all the speculation surrounding Jela. He turned up in Vienna unannounced to support the lads and traveled back with them and he's back in training working hard and ready to fight for his place.
Kev Johnson
153 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:30:21
"All he needs to do is bang in a few goals." Ah, you make it sound so blissfully simple, Phil.
Derek Knox
154 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:24:20
Yeah Bob! Who's going to pay big bucks for a striker who's recent CV resembles a Brett Belfitt or Rod Angell! Exactly!....................Accrington Stanley!
Oh wait a minute! That's our next opponents! Funny Ol' Game!
Ross Edwards
155 Posted 16/07/2013 at 12:49:29
Well, now we have Kone, Jela's days are numbered. Sad really, but due to his awful season last season I can not see any top flight club in Europe taking him.
Phil Sammon
160 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:01:54

We have three senior strikers at the club. Most teams try to have four.

Surely Jelavic is very much in our plans.

Ross Edwards
161 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:06:06
Well, Phil, from a first team action point of view, his days are numbered. if he wants permanent first team action, he will have to leave the club in order for that to happen.

If he wants to play in the World Cup next year if Croatia get there ,he will need first team action next season.

Colin Glassar
165 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:19:43
Martinez will want to see him in training before he makes a decision. I still believe jelly can come good again.
Kev Johnson
171 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:24:01
If I was a betting man (which I'm not) then I'd put money on Jelavic netting 15+ goals this season.

Why? I don't know - that's just what life's like, in my experience! Build something up and it's a flop (like NJ last season), write something off and it comes up trumps (like NJ this season). Expect the unexpected, that's my motto.

"It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world" as Ray Davies remarked in 'Lola'. Er, not that I'm saying Jelavic dresses up in women's clothes and hangs around Soho or anything...

Phil Sammon
174 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:34:18

So you think Martinez is happy going into a new season with Kone and Anichebe as his only senior strikers?

Jelly will stay, and I'll put £10 on for Kev that he bangs in 15.

Paul Ferry
177 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:39:51
Ben Dyke - 89 - I heard that Jelavic caused some trouble in the dressing room last season with his attitude .........

Evidence please Mr. Dyke and make sure that it is sound and not some titttle-tattle twaddle?

You must have some sort of priviledged access to Everton to weed out this gem and be the first to break it to us lucky toffeeWebbers.

So, a source please and make sure that it's not second- or third- or fourth-hand hearsay.

Michael Brien
178 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:36:27
Personally I hope that Jelavic stays - perhaps the guy is worried thinking that all Everton managers will play just the one striker !!!As regards those who are quick to slag Jelavic off - as I have said before on ToffeeWeb: in 1977-78 Bob Latchford scored 30 League Goals, the following season 1978-79 he scored 12 League Goals. I can't recall anyone at the time mentioning the " misfiring Bob Latchford". I hope that Jelavic proves the doubters wrong.
Mark Scarratt
182 Posted 16/07/2013 at 13:52:13
Michael at 178.
Latchford actually scored 11 league goals in 36 apps
However he also scored 9 cup goals, so his total for that season was 20 in 44
Nearly 1 in 2
Not that bad really, although 5 were in 1 game against Wimbledon
James Stewart
186 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:23:35
Jelavic is just atrocious. Get rib while we still can. Horrible technique and no pace.
Derek Knox
188 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:17:19
Paul (177)
I think a lot of these stories of dressing room discord, and general mischief,emanate from the Sports pages of the Beano (which has ceased to be published in paper form) or the Scandal pages of The Dandy!
James Marshall
190 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:36:30
Most of these stories are bollocks - you only have to look at things like "according to Sky sources" to see that. All they have to do is quote someone in the office who mentioned something about it over the water cooler.

Websites & papers have bugger all else to do than speculate once a club makes a signing, ie Kone which they can then say, well that'll unsettle Jelavic so he'll have 'talks' with the manager, which he undoubtedly will - as will all the players, that's why he's the manager. It doesn't mean shit though so relax.

We've been linked with about 20 players so far this summer, and how many of them actually come to fruition?

You only have to look at Utd making a bid for Fabregas, and all the papers now saying this has 'alerted' other clubs! What the hell does that actually mean, alerted?

Are they all of a sudden going, "oh there's a guy called Fabregas available, none of us had heard of him until now, or realised Barcelona had signed Neymar which pushed him down the pecking order" It's all made up bullshit to fill space on websites and newspapers.

James Marshall
193 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:50:57
I just read this on the Echo site - the way these hacks word things is ridiculous.

"Jelavic seeks URGENT talks"

"Everton are BRACING themselves for big Fellaini bid"

It's laughable, it really is. Are the Everton board all sitting there, strapped into their boardroom seats all staring at the phone?

Is Jelavic running around trying to find Martinez to have these urgent talks with him, in a state of panic?

Good god, these morons need to work on their journalistic skills. It's cheap, lazy journalism by people with nothing else to write about.

Colin Glassar
194 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:50:53
James, I agree to a point with you but, transfer rumours do make an otherwise boring week off work slightly more enjoyable. But now serious papers like the Guardian and Independant are linking Fellaini to utd. When these type of papers jump on the bandwagon then there's usually some substance to these stories. Add to this ladbrokes and Lou Macari then the signs aren't good.
James Marshall
196 Posted 16/07/2013 at 14:56:33
Colin - we don't need the Guardian or Independent to fill in the gaps for us. Everyone knows other clubs are interested in Fellaini, and everyone knows Fellaini has ambitions beyond Everton.

It's not news no matter who reports it - it's regurgitated stories that have been floating around for a year or so.

Even you just said that these papers have 'jumped on the bandwagon'.

I do agree with you though, and I enjoy the speculation over the summer, that's why I'm here! I just think that we have to be a bit selective in what we read & believe, y'know?

Colin Glassar
197 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:00:04
Absolutely James, 99.9% of these rumours are utter BS but as they say, "there's no smoke without fire". I honestly believe that most of these rumours are started by agents who are out for a commission. They do a disservice to their clients, teams and fans but it's part of the game today. Still, I enjoy a bit of footie gossip and speculation myself but take most of it with a pinch of salt.
Viv Sharma
199 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:01:58
Quality striker who got no service (that suited him) last year with Felli moving up.
I think it will be different under Roberto and I think he will bag us a hatful. Hope he stays.
Harold Matthews
200 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:00:00
SSN,,Everton linked with Guilherm Magdalen Siqueira of Granada.

Age 27, 6', left fullback.

Once a target of Moyes who will still be interested if he can't get Baines.

Brazilian born Italian.

Free to Udinese, Free to Granada. 12 goals in 94 games.
Suspended twice. season 6 months off sick (illness).
Not sure he appeared last season.

Rumour says £4ml.

James Marshall
201 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:14:14
That too, Colin. Agents agitating things to make more money. Good point.

Also, I think Viv makes a good point here too - Jelavic was pretty much dropped mid-season last year and starved of decent service. That could well change this year, and we all know he can be lethal given the right balls into the box.

He's never going to beat 3 players and hammer them in from 30 yds, but the kid has instinct and predatory finishing, which could potentially work out really well with better service.

Jim Knightley
202 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:12:01
Personally, I think the basis of this story makes perfect sense. Jelavic wasnt first choice last season...and this season we have brought in a striker Martinez likes, in a formation which will probaly only accommodate one striker. Jelavic is on the fringes of the Croatian first team, and will want to make a case for a starting role, which will certainly not happen if he is reduced to a bit part player at our club. I wouldn't be surprised if we got not only what we brought him for, but a little more. Strikers are at a premium... Sunderland are a perfect example of that kind of desperation (Danny Graham for 5mil...really? Fletcher for 12.5ish?), and Hull, among others, have money to spend on a striker. That said, I think he could re-capture his scoring touch next season...he is a one touch finisher, and the kind of player who could score 10 in 10, and then nothing in the next 10. I'm not writing him off by any means, and I think it's good for our squad to have 1) competition 2) options on the bench. But I wouldn't be surprised if these stories have substance, one way or another.
Jim Knightley
203 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:12:01
Personally, I think the basis of this story makes perfect sense. Jelavic wasnt first choice last season...and this season we have brought in a striker Martinez likes, in a formation which will probaly only accommodate one striker. Jelavic is on the fringes of the Croatian first team, and will want to make a case for a starting role, which will certainly not happen if he is reduced to a bit part player at our club. I wouldn't be surprised if we got not only what we brought him for, but a little more. Strikers are at a premium... Sunderland are a perfect example of that kind of desperation (Danny Graham for 5mil...really? Fletcher for 12.5ish?), and Hull, among others, have money to spend on a striker. That said, I think he could re-capture his scoring touch next season...he is a one touch finisher, and the kind of player who could score 10 in 10, and then nothing in the next 10. I'm not writing him off by any means, and I think it's good for our squad to have 1) competition 2) options on the bench. But I wouldn't be surprised if these stories have substance, one way or another.
James Marshall
204 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:17:20
Harold - it also says that he's being lined up IF we sell Baines, and only IF we sell Baines.
Mark Press
205 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:25:56
Please correct the spelling mistake asap. This isn't ToffeeWeb.
Derek Knox
206 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:09:35
Like you say James / Colin, too many read too much into these Jack-a-nories, but like I have said myself before, for every twenty speculative storylines,there is probably one with a vestige of a factual link, however tenuous it may be! I dare say Roberto (like many other managers) may have 'interest' in a player, but before you can say Jack Shit the journos have him expected to be signing on the dotted line!
The following advice should always be heeded when reading any material,whether it be Tabloid or Text unless it is coming from EFC or TW etc. Is always read in a well ventilated space " The fumes off bovine manure can be lethal (high methane content) so there you go!
Harold Matthews
210 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:36:03
Thanks James.
Sounds a bit far fetched anyway.
James Marshall
213 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:44:12
The Echo, on the same day (today) have put up a story where they claim Jelavic is seeking talks with the manager about his future due to being unsettled by the Kone signing, and also a story from Osman saying how he believes Jelavic will be inspired by the new signings.

They even quote Ossie directly.

Need I say a single word more?!

Patrick Murphy
218 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:54:12
Don' t forget James that The Mirror and The Echo are from the same Newspaper stable, it sounds like a fishing expedition on their part, but like everything there may be some truth in the story. I hope that RM says tells Jelavic he isn't going anywhere until January and that he has to produce the goods to get in the team, the same as everybody else.

It's funny when the Echo bends over backwards to placate the other lots fans by saying that Ratboy is wanted and various other comments as they sit on the fence in case he decides to stay. They can't have the Blues having choices up front can they?

James Marshall
222 Posted 16/07/2013 at 15:59:43
Patrick - I reckon the only thing we know is true, will be that Jelavic will talk to Martinez. Somehow I don't suppose they'll blank each other all summer, in some sort of Mexican stand-off routine!

It really is laughable.

I very much doubt there are many managers out there keeping their team/squad in the dark over who plays where, and who starts and who he's keeping and who he isn't. How on earth would that help anyone!?

Mental newspaper babble :-)

Paul Ferry
231 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:13:31
Nice one James-M (213)

More evidence of dressing room disquiet.

It was perfectly obvious to me that when
Jelly FINALLY got that goal. his team-mates
in a shocking show of indifference bordering
on resentment jumped all over him in utter
joy and happiness for the dressing room
malcontent and rabble-rouser,

Kev Johnson
233 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:00:04
James Marshall - I'm sorry, mate, but like most other people on here you misunderstand how newspapers/magazines work. It is speculation - but it is not idle speculation and it is not "lazy journalism" (what a mega-cliche that is, by the way!) They are publishing it not as fact but as reality-related entertainment - because there is a market for it. In other words, seeing how gossip and celebrity mags are now widely read by women, they are doing something similar with sports. This kind of thing really is the equivalent of "Kerry Katona's drug hell" - it's gossip for men. Infortainment, is what it is.

There is no contradiction in the Echo juxtaposing the (troublemaking) Jelavic snippet with a (positive) Osman interview. What do you think Osman is going to say? It's an official statement - he's going to trot out the party line, he's not going to say anything controversial. Once in a blue moon, players let slip something significant in an official interview, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

An example: the Australian cricket team sacked their manager a couple of weeks ago. This morning I read him revealing that two of their main players - Clarke (the captain) and Watson don't get on at all and that there are divisions in the camp. Well, he was only able to say that because he no longer has any stake in the Australian team. Clarke and Watson aren't going to spill the beans - at least not until they write their autobiographies - because it's necessary to present a united front.

James Marshall
237 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:23:44
Kev, I'm sorry but I think you and I are essentially talking about the same thing.

I'm all too aware of how the infotainment business works and that's exactly what I've written. You may not think of it as lazy journalism, but I do.

The hacks who write this crap and the idiots who write Heat or whatever other crappy publication are cut from the same cloth. As are the people that read the Sun and lap up all the nonsensical journo-nonsense they're fed.

Osman's words ring truer to me than the Echo's bullshit about Jelavic, and I don't listen to a word of it. I don't buy a newspaper. I don't watch TV either.

I abhor advertising for exactly the same reason. Mind-rape of an increasingly dumbed down society, controlled by the morons in the media and it sickens me.

Not for one minute am I one of your 'most other people' on here, or anywhere else for that matter and as you may notice (or not!) these are issues I feel very strongly about and have voiced an opinion on in the past.

Anyway, I completely agree with you aside from labelling me as someone who doesn't understand the system we're talking about so I won't argue the toss with you on it! Of course it's a circus, and one people lap up - I am merely saying that it's mostly a load of rubbish to fill space on a webpage - which is really what you're saying as well.

Jim Knightley
242 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:36:01
The point with newspaper speculation, or speculation on Sports' websites, is to consider its validity objectively imo. So James... Jelavic, correct me if im wrong, was in and out of the team last season, and therefore not first choice? Martinez, has brought a striker in Kone, who is highly likely to be first choice in a probable a one striker formation next season. Do you agree? The very same Jelavic, is on the fringes of first team football for Croatia, and a season of off and on football, barring international injuries, will certainly stop him making the first team. this an incorrect leap?

Many stories are crap. I've read newspaper stories claiming we've brought people who have never materialised. There are rumors with no substance sometimes...but it doesn't mean every rumor is bullshit. Like for instance, the newspaper speculation, and online rumors, which greeted our four signings of this window. This story, has potential validity. Why? because it makes sense.

James Marshall
243 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:45:22
Jim - I did also say that yes, of course Jelavic will speak to Martinez. My point was more that he's not URGENTLY seeking talks. It's sensationalised is all I was saying.

At no point in this did I say I don't think Jelavic will have concerns, It's just the way it's reported that pisses me off :-)

Jim Knightley
245 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:49:50
Fair enough James. It is part of the industry unfortunately... and it can be bloody irritating.
James Marshall
248 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:53:04

Exactly! Jelavic has always appeared to me to be 'one of the lads' and in no way a trouble maker. There are aspects of these pieces that really do make no sense at all.

Like I said before, I just hope people can be more selective in what they read into things.

Kev Johnson
252 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:37:10
Hmm. I hear what you're saying, James - that you are well aware of the media circus and the mind rape of advertising, etc - but actually I don't think we are saying the same thing.

You think Ossie's comments ring true and the Jelavic thing is rubbish. I don't. I think the Ossie comments are just an official press release with very little "truth" content, while the Jelavic story, although almost certainly mere conjecture, does dramatise something real (ie, he's bound to be wondering if he still figures in the manager's plans and, in a World Cup year, is keen for clarification).

I don't see the media is a circus which distracts people from the real issues. I think the whole goddamn thing is a circus, and the media is just a part of that. I think it was the German existentialist philisopher Frederick Mercury who sang: "Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?" It's not always easy to tell the difference, if you ask me.

Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you, James. I respect your intelligent contributions to TW. I just get a bit tired of people dissing journalists. I mean, if I don't like or respect something then I ignore it. I don't keep "buying" something only to complain about it, which is what people seem to do with newspapers. End of semi-philosophical rant. Er, COYB!

James Marshall
254 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:02:55
Fair do's, Kev.

Freddie Mercury was from Zanzibar though ;-)

Paul Ferry
258 Posted 16/07/2013 at 16:59:54
It also makes perfect sense to me that each one of the players would have individual talks with the new gaffer about how he sees them fitting in with his new designs.

I'll bet a healthy high ten sponds that Bobby has sat down to spend time alone with all of our shall we say key players.


Everrton player sits down with his new boss to talk about the future and how said new boss sees him fitting into his plans

Cue loud cracks of thunder and sirens and hideous wailing.

It's all going off.

Will we have any players left by Aug-17

Kev Johnson
261 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:11:11
James - you're dead right there. I was mixing him up with Friedrich Nietzsche.

James Marshall
269 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:23:50
Aaah yes, Nietzsche, he also played inside-left for Eintracht Frankfurt during 1869-70 season. A little known fact for all you fact fans out there.
Kieran Fitzgerald
270 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:22:30
A paper can conduct an interview with a celebrity. One of the questions can be 'do you take drugs?'. The celebrity says 'No, never have'. The headline the next morning is 'celebrity denies taking drugs'. The paper isn't telling lies or making stuff up and what come back does the celebrity have? It's the same principle with football related stories.
Phil Sammon
275 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:12:13

'I just get a bit tired of people dissing journalists.'

About a month ago Phil McNulty (BBC Football) tweeted that he hated the phrase 'Paper talk' and 'lazy journalism'. Now while the latter is now a horrible cliche, they are both fair comment, in my opinion, aimed at a group of people who sit on their backside and take wild guesses at possible transfers. These people call themselves journalists and, like McNulty, get terribly offended when people call them out for being the bullshitters that they are.

Of course there are exceptions. When you hear Tim Vickery talk, it doesn't take very long before you realise this man has a vast knowledge of his field. He doesn't make wild guesses. If he thinks a club are interested in a player he will say that it's his opinion. Other 'journalists' present their bullshit as fact, often quoting 'a source' or 'people close to the club'. This is what winds me up. They are all out liars who want to be treated as respectable journalists. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.

Kev Johnson
277 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:36:08
How am I "having it both ways" Phil? I don't get what you're saying.
Kevin Tully
281 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:38:44
All journo's involved in football, either on T.V. or in print are basically regurgitating the same tired old cliche's, season after season.

I just wish we could have a 'shock jock' type of sports journo who could speak their mind on T.V. - it would make great viewing.

I don't mean just spouting crap for shock value, just something along the lines of ' I don't know how he ever gets a starting place in the first 11, he's totally shite, did you see that pass?

The nearest I've ever heard commentating, or in a sportsman's dinner, was Paul Merson. He doesn't like the R.S. or City's mercenary players.

They are all shit scared of saying anything out of line in case they don't have their contract renewed on T.V. (Lawrenson & Hansen being typical bullshit merchants) or their newspapers are banned. Fergie would ban them just for asking the wrong question FFS!

I think a new football show where no-one is scared of speaking their minds would be a great hit. Too many are football scribes are thinking about their next gig, or skint ex-pro's are worried about upsetting someone.

Phil Sammon
283 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:58:01

Not you - the journalists can't have it both ways. If you're a bullshit merchant then you can't expect people to respect your output.

Phil Sammon
284 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:01:24
Kevin Tully

I like Strachan when he's on the telly. He can be brilliantly honest at times.

He knows exactly how to treat these journalists spouting out the same trite questions too. Think it was his first Middlesborough press conference:

Journalist: Gordon, are you the right man to lead Middlesborough back up the table?

Strachan: No.

Patrick Murphy
286 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:05:10
So much for my knowledge I always had Nietzsche down as a Right Winger.
Ben Dyke
287 Posted 16/07/2013 at 17:56:31
When remarking I'd overheard Jelavic had a gob on last season I wasn't trying to make out everyone hated him. If a colleague of mine who I was aggravated by won a major contract that benefitted us all, I would still celebrate.

I take the point about second hand info but I am just trying to add my tuppence to a debate about Jelavic. And isn't the close season all about speculation anyway!

Patrick Murphy
288 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:06:27
Kevin #281 do you mean like ToffeeWeb but live on TV, what time is the water-shed?
Kevin Tully
289 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:06:34
Made me chuckle that Phil. I see Rooney has come out all guns blazing over comments made his new manager about proving his fitness, second to RVP etc.

He is angry & confused, i.e off as soon as possible. Well done David.

Kevin Tully
290 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:10:30
I would love to watch that Pat. Probably end in violence though.

Sure fire hit !

Paul Andrews
291 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:12:19
I missed that Kevin,
What has he said?
Kev Johnson
293 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:02:33
If all journalists were indeed liars and/or bullshitters then they would have no right to be taken seriously, Phil, that much is clear. But I am saying that they are not. Yes, I recall McNulty saying that "lazy journalism" is a cliche (or, in other words, the phrase itself is lazy journalism) and that's why I used it. But in what sense do you think he is a liar? You might well disagree with him, but that doesn't makes him a liar, does it? He's a multi-purpose football journalist, and as such I think he's reasonably good. There are more specialist football journos around, like TIm Vickery, but they are filling a different slot.

At the risk of broadening out this debate, can I make an analogy... When I was a teenager I used to think that surrealism was ultra-cool. "Nothing is as it seems, everything is strange". Wow! Mindblowing at the time. Now, with experience, I have to say that some things are exactly as they seem and there's nothing terribly clever about imagining otherwise all the frigging time. Well, when it comes to newspapers, etc, people seem stuck at the stage of "You can't believe everything you read" and they go on about it like it's a great insight and they've seen through it and have a superior wisdom. Whereas the truth is that you can believe some things you read and not others! There are good and bad journalists out there, they're not all bullshitters and liars. Even when a writer comes up with something that in pure invention or based on the flimsiest of pretexts, that is not because he is an bloody moron, it's because the general public like that sort of thing! They lap it up - and if they didn't then it wouldn't be printed because there would be no money to be made from it. Yet somehow it's always the messenger who gets shot!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must remove my bonnet. I seem to have a massive swarm bees in it...

Kevin Tully
295 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:20:17
Paul, his camp have let Sky know they are not happy with the recent comments about his future.

He is 'angry & confused' and will not be a squad player, or play second fiddle to RVP at the peak of his own career. He is also upset at claims he has to 'prove anything' after nine seasons.

Definitely gone after making all this public, and well pissed off by comments Moyes has made. Oops!!

Kieran Fitzgerald
296 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:11:24
In fairness, I have found the Gillette Soccer Saturday panel to be pretty good. While not explosive, they do seem prepared to speak their minds. Paul Merson in particular can be very good.

With the BBC, you would presume that Match of the Day fits into their light entertainment category so by nature it's going to be fairly light and fluffy anyway. With the advent of sky sports, ESPN and now BT as well, MOTD has lost most of it's relevance as well.

Paul Andrews
297 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:26:44
Thanks Kevin.
I think Moyes is backing him into a corner,forcing him to ask for a transfer.
Even if it was true,why would you make a statement like " we will need him if
Robin gets injured"
Jim Knightley
299 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:37:15
The reporting of the Moyes comments were de-contextualised...He said were positive things (playing up front with RVP or in-behind) which have been conveniently deleted. That said...why on earth is giving the Press such ammunition...some top players need to be told they are fantastic, the best etc...and Rooney is one of those. I couldnt see a future for him at United before the appointment of Moyes, and I cant see one for him after. This gives United a real headache now, especially because the potential of other Premier League bids. Shame we arn't a richer club, in a slightly better position...if we were, I could see him coming back here.

With respect to Journos: I think the information of age, and esp the growth of Twitter, has given everyone voice...there are some you can trust, there are some you can't. Sky's Spanish Correspondence speaks alot of sense and knows the clubs, and people at the clubs, in Spain (I'm not going to try and spell his name). Similarly, McNulty is generally very trustworthy, and the BBC are pretty much the definite sources on completed transfers (the Sahin deal to Arsenal is one of the only stories they've mucked up that I can think of...and that was a complex one). I think it's a case of knowing who to listen to, and knowing who to avoid.

Jim Knightley
301 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:48:54
Apologies for the typos. Horrendously tired after a football session.
Derek Williams
303 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:48:54
Seems pretty clear to me Jelly. Play like the Roy of the Rovers, one touch super hero of two seasons ago and you're the first name on the team sheet.

Play like his clueless twin brother who pitched up last year and Kone gets the gig. No need to see Roberto to clarify where you stand, it seems pretty obvious to me!!

Hope it's the former, you were a breath of fresh air that first (half) season and I can't believe that's a skill that can't be regained. Even Torres has got some way back to what he used to be!

Phil Sammon
307 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:46:47

McNulty made that statement in defence of his fellow journalists. I was not calling him a liar, I was suggesting that the people he defends do not have the integrity he seems to think they do.

You seem to feel that these writers are simply giving the people what they want. Almost that they see their role as fiction writing. I don't see it that way. People like John Cross from The Mirror genuinely see themselves as respected and insightful journalists. In actual fact he spouts the same garbage as the rest of them regardless of any truth.

The Fellaini transfer was a beaut in that respect. We were linked with every Tom, Dick and Harry that summer and not one of these journos put forward the big man's name. I think that sort of thing speaks volumes when they claim to be so well connected to the clubs.

Anyway, enough of this one. It's 7 O'clock and time for a beer in the sun.

Brian Cleveland
308 Posted 16/07/2013 at 18:38:11
Of course Jelly will be talking to Martínez, he's the friggin´manager! Of course he's interested in what system he wants to play and what his role in it is going to be.

If any of us get a new boss, aren't we interested in asking what the plan is and what responsibilities we might get?

Yes, for a reason none of us understand he lost all confidence last season, but for me anyone who can get into the positions he did and swing a leg and connect so sweetly as he did on almost every occasion he had a chance to in his first few months doesn't do that by luck. That ability to strike it first time without the need to control it first is not that common.... he has something exciting, lets just hope he can rediscover it, with US!

He had some painful misses last year, but, he still has my support...

Come on Jelly, let's see you back on form

Paul Andrews
309 Posted 16/07/2013 at 19:13:17

You don't mean. Tha Spanish lad from sky Guilleme Ballache?

Colin Glassar
311 Posted 16/07/2013 at 19:18:35
I'm waiting for the ssn breaking news banner that says, " Rooney leaves manager David Moyes unconscious after a brawl at Carrington".
Brian Cleveland
313 Posted 16/07/2013 at 19:22:50
Colin, do you think Rooney will come worse of in that fight??
Colin Glassar
316 Posted 16/07/2013 at 19:28:36
Brian, Rooney is from Crocky, Moyes is from Glasgow. It would be a close one but I think Rooney would win on a TKO after about 5.3 seconds.
Bob Hannigan
365 Posted 16/07/2013 at 21:18:48
I'd say J can get off his arse and start scoring some goals
Kevin Tully
368 Posted 16/07/2013 at 21:16:41
Kev J, I can think of about erm......135 posters on here who could do a passable impression of a football writer ( including you, that's the standard we are talking : }

On the other hand, can you imagine them being a bailiff like what I am?

Anyone wanna buy an x box - hardly used?

Kev Johnson
396 Posted 16/07/2013 at 22:07:59
What does that prove, Mr Tully? Being a bailiff is a job requiring certain skills; being a journalist is a different job requiring different skills. I can't see one person doing both jobs, but you never know. He'd have to be fairly versatile, I'd say. A bit of a Sandy Brown, if you like.

There are definitely articles/posts on TW that are good enough to be published more widely. (Eugene, for example, is a brilliant writer.) But then again, we just write when we feel like it, for as long as we want - and on our specialist subject, Everton. I doubt many people could turn out 500 informative and entertaining words on, say, Hull City in 30 minutes - against a deadlline - which is what journalists sometimes have to do.

I'm not interested in the x-box, but if let me know if you get any Playstation 2 handsets...

Jim Knightley
398 Posted 16/07/2013 at 22:29:31
Yes Paul. He broke news of our Barca signing, and helped dispel the Higuain rumors if I remember rightly. Generally seems to have some very good contacts.
Kevin Tully
419 Posted 16/07/2013 at 23:09:29
On a much more serious note Kev (just finished watching Newsnight) I don't believe 90% of these "football writers" should be viewed as any sort of oracle when it comes to anything football.

Let's face it, a couple of years training, and most on here could actually get by.

If you agree with the timescale, it's a fairly easy profession to be viewed as competent.

Therefore, I never hold their opinion (or chosen career) as a higher wisdom compared to a drunken fecker in the local. Most of it is regurgited shite from sites such as this (as proven by the Echo on many occasions)

I couldn't be less impressed by being introduced to the 'chief sports writer for the dailylyingfuckinbastards if I tried.

Brian Wilkinson
465 Posted 17/07/2013 at 04:09:45
What about Joe Harper he's got to be there alongside rod Belfit and Jim Pearson.those days we had players that frightened opponents along with the whole of the Gwladys street, dia gnasher Davies in goal mike sulky face Bernard, Jim Pearson and John Connally, imagine the school kids opening a packet of football cards with one of those faces greeting you, enough to make you drop your little piece of bubble gum in shock, anyone recall any others around that period with looks that only a radio interview befitted the player.
Harold Matthews
469 Posted 17/07/2013 at 05:16:51
This thread has given me a headache.
Freddy Maldonado
470 Posted 17/07/2013 at 06:03:16
I would love to keep him another year at least. Who knows, he could very well form a good partnership with Kone.

If any of this is true, wasn't West Ham interested in him at some point? A swap for Diame and a little bus fare would not be a horrible move. Again though, I rather keep him and see how he works in the Martinez offense. This could be a good thing for him.

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