Solid Blues defence; impotent attack

After playing Browning at Liverpool and United as a sub it is somewhat baffling at times to try working out the Martinez thought process.

Glad to see Barkley back, would have liked to see Barkley next to McCarthy in a 4-4-2 tonight with Lukaku partnering Eto'o.

How can it be "baffling" that an experienced Premier League right back is preferred, at right back, to a young player who has made 2 solitary sub appearance and whose proper position is centre half?

Ball retention is garbage, wide open at the back, it’s how. NOT to play in Europe. We’ve learnt nothing from the Moyes days and seem to be waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen.

And as for Hibbert, he wasn’t good enough at this level nine years ago. Martinez is a stubborn fool and it will cost him if he doesn’t buck his ideas up. You can’t bore a team Into submission.

It takes us 10 minutes to get out of our own half because we don't have one passer other than Baines in our back line. Fuck it. Just put Coleman on so we can create one chance in this game.

I'm not one of these people endlessly bashing our team. But I don't understand the point of playing a has-been (some would argue a never was) with no attacking threat over a promising young player with obvious physical gifts.

I also don't understand breaking up a partnership that recorded our 2nd clean sheet of the season. The only 2 clean sheets we've gotten have come when Stones/Alcaraz (a calm passer) is paired with Jags. Distin and him are the same. That's why it's taking forever to get into their half. They can't pass for shit collectively.

0-0, away from home against an experienced team at this level, and people are pointing the finger already.

As for it being the defence and their lack of passing ability at fault for us not getting the ball forward quicker, then I suggest you might want to shift some of that blame onto the two deep lying midfielders who keep playing wall passes straight back to them. McGeady has bombed into space a fair few times only to be totally ignored by both Besic and Barry who instead choose to spin and play the ball straight back where it came from.

Utter dross

But was there one memorable incident for those countless thousands of Blues fans to remember? Did we have even one decent strike on goal?

Really utter dross going forward, even with two strikers on the field.

BTW, Michael, yes we did have a decent strike with McGeady when their goalie pulled off a lucky save.

We’ll be out, the first decent team we come up against, as usual, if we get out of the group. We’re like naive bumpkins in Europe – embarrassing.

I thought Hibbo had a good game — I don't understand why he is getting stick.

A point away from home in Europe is a good result .

The disappearance of our 'possession' play and attacking edge a big disappointment.

I'm afraid McGeady is out of his depth and Eto'o for me is past his best... where does he actually play and what does he offer?!!!!

Why don't Ross Barkley and Samuel Eto'o know that?

A draw there is a decent result, no point moaning, although it was a boring performance and the referee was one of those that makes you realise we're lucky to be watching English football week-in & week-out.

I was very pleased with Jags this evening. On the other hand I'm still not convinced about Distin. I'd have liked Browning to have got some minutes for Hibbert in the later stages, like the derby and Man Utd game.

I thought the ref gave us nothing, and I think Eto'o for one agrees with me. Baines was taken out all game long and Besic winning the ball early on was given a yellow. A good away point in the end.

Strong defensive display away from home and a good point but eventually we have to start playing better as an attacking team.

Hibbo scores we riot!!!

A true blue, great servant, and shame on you you haters.

People are going to complain about the performance but to me one of the major complaints we had was the defence that is starting to show confidence and has another clean sheet. As supporters we have been wating to get into Europe and sometimes you will have to put up with this safety first type of play away from home to gain a result and get experience in these competitions.

Overall I thought we were far too slow and laborious in our build up play and our passing was lazy. McGeady was dire until Lukaku came on and Pienaar looked well off the pace too.

They were also up against what seemed a much more mobile and progressive Lille side who unfortunately dived and cheated at every opportunity. I was actually shocked we finished with 11 on the field.

I think it's clear that we struggle to play well without our first choice 11, but I also think that Martinez came to get a point with the realisation that we're in a strong position in the Europa league at the moment and that Sunday's match is more important for many reasons.

I would agree with Gavin that it would have been great to see Browning given some time, even though Hibbert and Distin probably didn't do a lot wrong.

Being unkind we were shite against a toothless team.

I cannot understand Martinez team selections or substitutions.

Why didn't he take Osman and or Naismith out there.

This game was crying out for one or other of them.

It was really apparent that Pienaar and Mcgeady were struggling. Why not bring McCarthy or even Gibbo on for the second half to beef the MF up and give us more options for passing instead of lumping balls down the line for Eto to chase.

It was fairly obvious we went out there afraid to lose.... so much for Sin Miedo.

Would be great if we could get him, but I can't see that happening, sadly.

I have always been a big Hibbert fan myself, fantastic defender rarely gets done by wingers.

Jay.

I don't think it's do much we were afraid to lose but attacking wise really are quite limited.

Without Mirallas there is no quality out wide and nobody willing or nobody able to run with the ball with any confidence, again that's possibly where we miss Deulofeu slightly this year.

McGeady I'm sorry but there's just nothing there to suggest he's ever going to be anything other than what Kilbane or McFadden were.
Atsu who knows yet?

We'll take that, wont we?

If we can continue to progress whilst giving players much needed recuperation time, it'll certainly do for me.

Okay, it wasn't edge-of-the-seat stuff, but it's about staying in and staying healthy at this stage of this competition.

Job done.

You don't half talk some shite, Phil. Distin did okay but, as pointed out on the commentary, he looks like he's lost a yard of pace (which, along with his pace, was his main attribute) and was leaving opposition forwards on acres of space at set pieces when he was supposed to be marking up. He's also nearly 37 so, if the manager considers he can no longer play 2 games in 4 days, I don't think anyone without a boring as fuck agenda is likely to grumble about it.

If he didn't succeed in the Bundesliga I'd also have a little reservation, as that league is more similar to the EPL in terms of pace and intensity than the French and Italian leagues. That being said, it might have been more to do with not getting on with Felix Magath than anything else. So I won't knock him for that, as nobody seems to like Magath.

I can't understand the Hibbert stick. He was solid, neat and tidy and even made a couple of useful forays forward.

McGeady was well denied in one instance by the keeper and messed up his cross in a good position but I think he still looked a decent threat.

Overall, it was a solid performance and a clean sheet with 4/5 first XI played rested or injured. I'll take that.

Pienaar struggles to pass the ball any further than 5 yards – anything out of this range is either hit too soft or too hard... it's been driving me mad for years now. Such simple passes sometimes and I can never understand why he can't do it.

Jagielka looks like he's back on form. Barry and Besic pretty solid. Hibbert had a very good game, he even looks more comfortable on the ball now and if only he could have scored with his chance... not sure Lille could have coped with the celebrations though!

Top of the group and another clean sheet so I guess we take the positives and hopefully get a decent run on the go.

Yes we were impotent but so were they - that is why it finished 0-0. Howard had a much easier game than we anticipated and Origi was well snuffed out by a defence which is apparently ripe for the knackers yard!

Also we were due to get nil at some point, hasn't happened since April, so at least that's out of the way before a crucial game at Burnley on Sunday.

I’ve tried to give McGeady the benefit of the doubt, but the occasional glimpses of offensive competence cannot offset the long stretches of ineptitude. As for his defensive skills. What defensive skills??!! I vote him "least likely to ever receive a yellow card". He doesn’t tackle; good, bad or otherwise. If he loses the ball or makes a bad pass, it’s someone else’s problem.

Up the Blues!

Roberto says the Europa League is a natural progression for us but how is the team supposed to learn if it's being constantly changed? Besides McGeady and Hibbert, all proved tonight that they are squad players at best and I must have been watching a different game from ToffeeWeb as I thought Distin was left standing on more than one occassion.

Roberto praised Alcaraz for his performance against villa and then drops him for Distin who's just recovered from injury? That game was a slap in the face for the thousands that travelled and deserved to see the strongest team play. Coleman would have destroyed Lille on the right but instead we had McGeady doing a fuckin' brilliant impression of a crab and playing nearly 90% of his passes sideways.

In my opinion, 2 points lost there tonight; Bob blew it.

For all his greediness, I think we miss Mirallas too.

For all the posters saying a point is a good result, I would argue that they were there for the taking and a win would have left us comfortable in the group for the remaining games.

Now we have to be wary of Lille and Wolfsburg who we have to play away.

The group is still very open.

Anyone who knocks Hibbert should be drawn and quartered. He hardly ever makes a mistake and gives 100% every time he's out there. I would also love to see the youngsters get more playing time but leaving them on the bench serves two purpose imo: makes them hungry for the time and gives them a chance to learn more.

It looked to me that Roberto was really afraid of Origi and the pace they had on the wing that he adopted a Moyesesque approach to the match and protected the back four as much as possible. The forwards all worked hard but cannot be blamed as the pitch was poor and meant that our centre-halves and Barry were pumping long balls the whole game. What are Eto'o, McGeady and Pienaar supposed to do with service like that?

All-in-all, however, a great result despite lacking the composure that Alcaraz, McCarthy and Coleman brought against the Villa.

On a side note, what I found funny was that the RedShite's best player is playing in France; they are crying out for a striker and he impressed once again tonight while back at the ranch they are relying on Ricky fucking Lambert and Balo-smelly.

Normally, I'd say something like that is a coincidence. But consider how our team attacks. We rely more heavily on our fullbacks to create width and overlaps in the opposition's final third than any other team. Hibbert is all defense. He effectively renders one half of the field useless going forward. I said the same damn thing on here 2 years ago before Coleman could get a game and everybody laughed me off with the same loyal club servant nonsense. Then Seamus started proving my point and everybody pretended to have been on his side from the beginning after poo pooing his defensive skills despite never really getting much time at fullback under Moyes. The rest is history.

Hibbert can tackle and his positioning was very good today. But sadly that's not all you have to do to be a good fullback in the modern game. You also need pace, crossing ability, and some dribbling skills to run at defenders and keep them honest. He has none of that. It's much like the Tim Howard great goalkeeper argument. Howard is a tremendous shot stopper, but his reading of the game and decision making stops him from being truly elite. One good trait doesn't make your game complete.

The reason I call for Browning is that I don't see the point of persisting with players that have no potential to improve when there are younger players that clearly have some skill and can learn from these experiences. If I've got our ambitions right, we're trying to break into the top four and challenge for titles in the long term. This is just a dress rehearsal for Champions League. When our kids are playing in that competition and messing things up due to the pressure, maybe you'll have wished we gave them some more minutes in these type of games instead of some of the old heads that are already bit part players right now.

For me, if he is playing, we can ditch one of the two defensive midfielders and play someone with Barkley in the middle instead.

People talk about Hibbo tonight, great game, top defender etc... All he did was basic defending, like any other defensive player. He did okay, that’s all. Offensively he was non-existent, simply not good enough anymore.

I’m not saying the lad’s not been a great servant to the club, and a good pro, but give the kids their chance, it’s their time to progress and develop into hopefully top Premier League players.

If he had played and suffered a re-occurrence of that injury tonight, I guarantee people on here would have been screaming blue murder about Martinez risking him in the Europa instead of saving him for the weekend.

It's a juggle with the squad for the best long term outcomes. Judge us on the team out for the two home games in Europa.

As much as I want us to be full speed at all times there is a sensible need for restraint to balance a half-aging squad, kids and injuries. I hope to see more of Browning and the return of Oviedo, miralLas and stones before New Year.

Eto'o is class, Rom was looking good. I'm happy

I think we'll take care of our home games and have this wrapped up by the end of the 5th game. Our young players haven't failed us yet and I'd like us to keep going to the well until they give us a reason not to.

Maybe I look too much into the future and see us more for our potential than what we currently are. But I feel like in every part of our society, there are quite a few with seniority living off reputation and keeping someone younger and better from getting a bit of shine. Life I suppose.

How can we expect to play full speed with the squad we have and our lack of European experience?

We came away to gain a good point against a good team who a few years ago, were regulars in the Champions League.

We were shit going forward but marvellous defensively. Looking at the context, were top of the group with two home games coming up, it's looking good in Europe.

It's a 'nothing to see here' game, and look forward to Sunday instead of pointless dissecting on a game where, no matter how shit we were (like Krasnodar), a point away from home in Europe is always a good one, especially with the ability of the teams in our group.

Coleman and McCarthy will add the energy needed to win at Burnley... And well played Hibbert again.

Starting Eto'o made sense. When Lukaku came on things improved. Distin is French, so starting him on his home soil made sense to me. I'd like to see Browning given more chances, but I guess today wasn't a day to start him or play him. Seeing Barkley play injury free and get more time on the pitch was a plus.

Halfway through the group stage and so far the total numbers of wins by any of the 4 teams is 2. Everton have one and Wolfsburg got one today. Thinking Everton were going to go 6-0 in this group is fairy tale stuff.

In summary, not losing today on the road was more important than winning. It showed in the team selection and the style of play. I thought the team selection and style of play were pretty close to what I would have done if I were Martinez.

I’m sorry but that is bollox.

In all four games referred to – Man Utd, Liverpool, Krasnodar, Lille – we were (1) away and (2) set up by the gaffer to keep it tight and nick one, a safety-first mode quite different to what we normally expect

So we score three in four away games where the gaffer has more of a defensive mindset and that lack of goals is down to?

The forwards? Our creative play? Creating chances (one on target in the 1st half)? No.... HIBBO!

Now, I’m not his biggest fan – I thought he was splendid tonight, by the way, after some early shaky moments – and would I rather not have him play and have some superior alternative? Yes! But we don’t and Hibbo did us proud tonight!

This has to be up there with the most desperate and, with respect, dumb Hibbo bashings of the last five years.

Look at the games you have listed!
Man U away - one win in over a decade
The Shite away - one win in two decades
and two away games in Europe with drastically changed line ups...... and it's Hibbert's fault we haven't scored more.

Piss take of the highest order.

I’m watching the game again for the 3rd time and this is simply not true. His tracking back is shallow at best. Look at say 71:43, for instance, standing still, just looking.

Better still, two minutes earlier, that woeful cross, Lukaku pointing in front of him, and .......

Lille break, said right winger nowhere to be seen (except after said shite cross, he stands there shaking his head) when you would hope that after such shite stuff he’d be legging it back to make amends.

McGeady good at tracking back tonight, my arse!

We had breaks on a number of occasions but they broke down due to lack of composure. If Lukaku points to where he wants the ball, perhaps the midfield could occasionally pass it there.

With Oviedo and Kone set to return soon, I think we are set-up nicely for the busy November-December season (fingers crossed though that we don't have any more injuries).

I expect Roberto to rest Barkley and Barry (but keep Barks on the bench), so against Burnley, we could see this team:

Howard
Coleman Jagielka Alcaraz Baines
Besic McCarthy
Osman Naismith Pienaar
Lukaku

Subs: Robles, Browning, Distin, Gibson, Barkley, McGeady, Eto'o

He must be close to five yellows already.

Give McCarthy and Besic a go on Sunday with Barry watching from the bench

So Martinez played for a point and got what he expected.

He also rotated the squad so well that only 3 outfield players (Baines, Jagielka and Barry) played the full 90+ minutes against both Villa and Lille.

As for Tony Hibbert, why does he stand two yards off a player, allowing him to cross the ball? As for Pienaar... a joke.

We are miles better than Burnley and should tear them to pieces. We shouldn't take them lightly but I feel that we have too much all over the pitch. The defence is giving a bit more confidence now and Howard has looked a lot more in comtrol in recent games.

COYB

For quite a lot of players playing regularly benefits them rather than tires them. If they are feeling the effects of playing reduce the training. They are all individually monitored so that should not be difficult.

I think we should be putting our strongest team out at this stage of the season and then assess things in January. We have had a reduced pre-season so there's less games to begin with.

Last night was a game in which I thought a either team never looked like scoring. It was a good enough result but, in my view, we gave them respect that they didn't deserve.

At this stage of his career, he could do without that.

I see you are of the ' modern players are shite, why shouldn't they play game after game, it's only 90 minutes of football' school of thinking.

I think modern sports science disagrees, hence why managers rotate players. Three of the players rested last night had only just returned to the side.

Anyway regardless of which is correct we got a decent result in a pretty poor game which means beat Lille in the return leg in a fortnight and our progress to the final 32 is pretty much assured.

It will be back to our strongest current XI on Sunday which subject to injuries will be the same starting line as Villa last Saturday.

This season, more than ever, this 'tired player' myth is being thrown in the face of supporters who should be insulted by it. A hugely paid young man who is too tired to play for his country a couple of months into the season should be laughed out of the game. Alan Ball must be turning in his grave.

Tim didn't have that much to do. I thought both central defenders grew as the game went on; Jags had a very good game. The amazing Baines was, as ever, busy, constructive, linking play. I thought Hibbo was OK too and look more of an attacking threat than the hapless McGeady.

Barkley was ineffective other than two or three excellent pieces of link play in the second half, one of which almost led to a goal. Barry, as ever, sailed close to the wind. Besic was almost excellent - very good. His play is tidy and he tackles well (the yellow card was incorrect) but he needs to play forward more, in my view and give impetus to our forward movement, which lacks it. Pienaar was not at his best (coming back from injury), but I disagree that he was as bad as McGeady (with respect, that really would be hard).

I thought McGeady was woeful again. There are two things about him that I fail to understand. First, that some on here have likened him, at his best, to George Best (I know it's all about opinions but quite staggering!) and, second, that a manager who prides himself on constructive possession-based football puts this man in his first team time and again (or ever!). It's quite quite baffling to me.

I personally don't think that McGeady is a squad player. Colin Glassar (I think) said last night that he doesn't even have the potential to be average. I think that was very well put.

I thought Rom is looking stronger and stronger. I've never doubted him and am delighted we have him. Sam, likewise – he needs more game time regularly in my view, even if a half here and there.

I feel we'll beat Krasnodar, lose to Wolfsburg and draw with Lille at GP. I don't know if that would get us through.

COYB for Sunday – three points and a clean sheet... please... please.

He isn't gonna be the threat going forward but solid and we have been leaking a lot of goals this season. Thought Jags had a fantastic game. Best player in blue, IMO.

Baines must have played as many minutes as any other Premier League player this season but he remains "not tired".

Could that be because he trains properly – unlike some of the other overpaid and overpampered egos?

I find it a ridiculous argument that any Premier League player, unless he is carrying a serious knock, should need a rest at this stage of the season.

The way I see it, a proper game shouldn't be any harder than a day of training. If they're training 9-5 for 5 days a week, game day shouldn't be a burden.

I wonder about the effect of rotation on someone like Naismith. He's the kind of player who gets better the more he plays. He's always hungry and never tires. When Roberto "rested" him for the first time this season, he stopped scoring and didn't look as good.

So I guess the question is why would almost every single manager look to rotate squads during the course of a season?

I would not claim to be an expert but I'm guessing the backroom team are monitoring individual players on a regular basis. Different players will need different approaches depending on natural capacity, injuries etc.

Also, if you only ever start your 'strongest XI', you run the risk of not having players ready should injuries arise.

Michael, as for Suarez, he seems pretty adept at engineering his own 'rest periods' most seasons.

My point is at this stage of the season I do not believe any Premier league athlete should need "resting".

IMO it has become an excuse to keep the players who cant make the first team regularly happy but that should not be the case.

If you want to win things you play your best 11 at every opportunity.