Scoreline flatters very poor Everton display

Barkley/Nais selection I can take or leave.

Outstanding last week, totally commited and first to every ball... yet today, itÂ’s been back to the "bad old Everton" of no movement, no quality, and no passion. You could say itÂ’s back to the Everton we have known best under Martinez this season.

For a team that can put in performances like last weekend against Man Utd itÂ’s amazing and somewhat alarming that we can throw in as many bad displays as we have this season.

Our away form needs sorting out next season. Just 4 away victories and no clean sheet away from home since January.

Embarrassing – shalln’t bother staying in for the second half. I feel sorry for the poor buggers who travelled down to that shithole.

RM is just a lucky man... Personally, I think the players motivate themselves. He isnÂ’t good enough to manage our club

Benteke, is an enigma - He looks shite for large parts of a season and then heÂ’ll go on a scoring run and heÂ’s been talked of as a 25m striker again.

The last 6 games yielded great results, but other than that, can you honestly say that, apart from the United game, that performances have improved?

No. TheyÂ’ve papered over cracks. Nothing more. In the grand scheme of things this game, like this run in meant nothing, but the performance was terrible and reflected the reality of the team and Martinez this season.

3-2 was flattering to say the least.

I understand that the manager is going to get the usual critical responses but really, the attitude and performance from EvertonÂ’s players in the first half, they should be the ones receiving the most flack.

Very disappointing - especially after last Sunday.

Seriously, there is no cohesion in the midfield and, with 15 minutes to go, we resort to Barkley and Osman. They were good enough last week to play and now suddenly are benched. ItÂ’s not like Ossie has a lot of football this season and it looked like Barkley was running in to some form.

Looking at the bench, there were no kids. Its the same-old, same-old tired formula from Martinez. Why were we defending so high? Where were the bodies behind the ball? If Cleverley is a target for Everton, I thought he played very well and took his goal well. I thought we were utter shite and was imploring the manager to do something about it after half an hour. We do use 3 subs, do we not?

1. Never change a winning team.
2. If your name is Roberto Martinez, ignore rule 1.
3. If things arenÂ’t working, use your substitutes in good time to help achieve a positive result.
4. If your name is Roberto Martinez, ignore rule 3 and leave your substitutions until itÂ’s too late to have a match-winning impact.

Nothing more to say really, except we can expect more of this dire crap next season if Roberto Martinez is allowed to continue his Â’phenomenalÂ’ tactical experiment at our club. We deserve better!

Meanwhile over at the real home of football, Evertonians are arguing about being good or bad supporters when for the most part of the season we have been very very poor, seemingly lacking in belief and a manager who canÂ’t motivate his squad.

Get Martinez out or the bottom 6 beckons next season. So bloody predictable.

Villa played their cup final today, we played ours last week. However we were far worse than United were.

The first half was the worst performance of any team in the Premiership this season.

Martinez should not have dropped Osman and Barkley. He should have kept the team that played so well against Utd.

But letÂ’s take nothing away from villa. They were fantastic.

What does he bring to the team? He canÂ’t tackle, has no pace, struggles to make a pass, canÂ’t shoot, too small, too light.

But somehow in the 10 games when he has played more than 45 minutes, we have 23 points
but in the other 24 games we have managed to get only 21 points.

Ernie, you are so right, it made total sense, because none of us can see what he does for this team, and it seems that includes Martinez.

Except perhaps make us a better team overall

What matters is whether RM (who will, of course, remain our manager) can get it right for next season and obviously that means sorting our transfer business and player motivation. Boring and frustrating though it is to say so, we have no idea if he will succeed and just have to wait and find out. This defeat, in itself, is meaningless for us.

Come on for Christ sake Martinez ! Do you have any clue how to set up a team, and employ the correct tactics ??

The last 5 results have saved us, and probably RMÂ’s job, but itÂ’s only papering over the cracks.

RM has got his work cut out this summer. Is he up to it ?

In the meantime I expect us to play better next week, and get 3 pts from off the Sunderland game.

IÂ’m not ignorant to last weekÂ’s great win but IÂ’m equally not forgetting the dt.

IÂ’m not ignorant to last weekÂ’s great win but IÂ’m equally not forgetting the dt.

Howard stuck on his line, never takes pressure off by coming for crosses and falls backwards on shots. Naismith is a complete waste of space, he looks like an amateur thatÂ’s won a contest. Disgraceful performance from top to bottom.

This is us and Martinez back to Earth with a bang after Sunday.

Every match in the Premier League is a tough fixture and itÂ’s even tougher when your team doesnÂ’t show up in the first 45 minutes, itÂ’s happened too many times not just in MartinezÂ’s reign but for some considerable time, we as a club have become used to not winning and now it seems we are going to have to get used to losing on a regular basis, not what I had hoped for in this brave new Martinez world but as long as we only lose to teams who are playing their own cup finals I suppose itÂ’s fine.

I said last week that we canÂ’t expect many teams to do what Man Utd did last match, and wait for us to hit them on the break. We were overun in midfield, and our lack of pace in that area of the pitch cost us control of the game. Individually, I thought that Howard could have come out to catch the cross to Benteke, and should have done better in front of Cleverly.

Lukaku looks too heavy, had a dreadful first touch, and only woke up with 20 mins to go. Naismith, who I have defended on here many times, is just not good enough. He was constantly fouling, canÂ’t pass and has no pace.

Martinez, has at least reminded us of what an ordinary manager he is. One good performance hitting the Mancs on the break was a false dawn. TodayÂ’s game showed us up as the mid-table also-rans that we are. We stroll around all first half, with no commitment, no intensity, and make countless errors. We canÂ’t get up for an ordinary fixture. Why is this? IÂ’d love to hear the team talk...

This is his train set and if he has anything about him he should be asking two questions:

1. Why change a winning team?

2. If changing, why not give some of the young lads a go?

If you have a train set at home and a friend starts messing about with it, do you sit back and say nothing? No, you donÂ’t; you would probably say "My train set is working okay at the moment, leave the fuck alone!!!"

ps: Cheers RM, you have just cost me ٟ.5M!!!

Anyway, the best team won, so let's move on... I just hope that buffoon Martinez is not here next season.

Just the way that he selected the team and his set up today shows a level of ineptness. He played a 4-1-4-1 system, with only Barry holding. Sadly, he left both Barkley and Osman out of the middle four, the two who could make a difference going forward.

McCarthy is a solid holding player but no more. His movement and showing for the ball further forward was poor, as if he didnÂ’t want it. Also, both Naismith and McCarthy tend to play the ball back from those forward positions as they lack the ability to turn in tight spots, and this reduces our forward options. This was so evident that Lennon played most of the game inside, coming to look for the ball, and then we loose the wide threat that he creates on the counter.

A good honest coach would admit his mistakes and rectify the problem early, at half time. Martinez waited until 75 minutes to make the changes – far too late to influence the game. It was noticeable that we were better going forward after the changes and Lennon pushed out wider again.

Martinez is so stubborn in trying to justify his set up and selection that it has a big negative impact on the team and those players on the bench. This has happened in many games this season. Why did he change the line-up and format today? Does he still not understand the qualities of the players at his disposal?

I agree that Lukaku was poor, but to give him a break, he needs supply from midfield, and the way we set up today, that was never going to happen. So, Martinez a tactical genius? LOL. I donÂ’t think so.

I really hope someone from the press asks that douchebag what he thinks went wrong with his former team. All he talks about is a philosophy and system which is built into the club from the kids to the senior squad. Sounds like a car that can drive itself. Well the last car he built just drove off the cliff into League Two...

We need to wake up because our cliff might be 12 months away...

Too many performances like today have been the story of our season and not enough like last Sunday.

As an Evertonian, I am hooked and live in hope that we will be great again.

Not quite. ItÂ’s more about the utterly inexcusable shite he has served up for the last year. His relentless ineptitude, his... fuck, I canÂ’t be arsed.

In my view, he is the worst coach in the history of our club and he has all the skills, honed at Wigan, to relegate us. The thought of him being at Everton next season, and listening to every. asinine utterance that he spouts, is just depressing.

I find it beyond belief that a grown man with some semblance of his marbles left would entrust Martinez to spend whatever pittance we have. What he has inflicted on our club over the last year is painful. Some good players, some good prospects, lamentable coach.

I keep hoping heÂ’ll become the real deal we all hoped for, but the evidence of my eyes and ears, suggests your take on things are spot on.

This Wigan bashing thing is very unfair IMO as they are a League 2 team at best. Jewell, Bruce and Martinez performed miracles to keep them in the top flight for as long as they did. So I donÂ’t think keeping on about Wigan is a valid point.

We have very little to play for from now to the end of the season and that is the reality of the situation, players with their flip flops on is not a million miles off.

Martinez will be Everton manager at the start of next season and he will get at the very least 10 games - that is another reality.

2nd place last season, outside chance of CL and a "Rodgers Out" banner. Kenwright picked a good team to bilk. Same would happen most anywhere with a winning tradition. Small time mentality brings small time results.

Anybody listen to Paul Merson on Sky Sports today he said cleverly is joining a London club in the summer.

Also, as strong and quick as Jagielka is on the ground, he has been woeful at crosses all season (even in the world cup) and constantly loses his man. This combination is a recipe for disaster. Our opponents have scored numerous goals this season from crosses into the six yard box, or from set pieces.

It is a dilemma with Jagielka, as he has a lot of other good qualities, but we cannot keep conceding goals in this fashion. A center half and a goalkeeper should be on the shopping list in the summer.

ItÂ’s not rocket science - we play badly without certain key players in the team, namely Osman and Barkley, even though the latter has his low-key games/moments more often than weÂ’d all like. They at least give us the shape we lack when the former two play and that to me says everything about our poor performances versus our good ones.

WeÂ’ve been generally poor this season, thatÂ’s not news to anyone, but there has been an upturn in recent weeks with results clear for all to see. Our run of wins was bound to end, and we lost to an extremely motivated Villa team with an awful lot more to play for than us.

If youÂ’ve ever played sport at any level, or know anything about the psychology of sport, youÂ’ll know that motivation is a key factor in performance of any athlete, and today was a prime example of that.

I’m not really sure why people are quite so upset with us losing today – the first half was bad, Villa were way more motivated than our players were, and the second half was a lot better.

Put it to bed, move on and try not to be quite so attacking towards our players and manager would be my advice. Not that anyone will take much notice. :-)

DidnÂ’t even get in their box for the whole of the first half and can't defend crosses because "headed goals are not proper football".

Please someone start a campaign to get this idiot out before he turns us into Wigan.... Oh too late!! He already has.

ItÂ’s a very competitive league, this.

Second goal was the fault of Stones the wunderkind who allowed Barry to be pushed into him when he should have already vacated the spot and picked up Benteke, although I am sure most will somehow hold Howard accountable.

Amazing that within minutes of Osman coming on the whole offense picked up. He was getting doubled and still held the ball and made some nice little passes. Why was he not in to start or at least at half-time? Barkley allowed Lennon to get wide but Lennon continued to ignore Coleman making overlapping runs and kept trying to cut everything back across the middle. Why?

CouldnÂ’t believe the rest of the bench, all Martinez "not good enough for prime time" players (Robles, Kone, McGeady, Besic). Aston Villa had to know they had this game won looking at that and knowing Barkley and Osman were subs. Why even bring a full set of subs if you will not use them?

What Man Utd losing to WBA has to do with an abject Everton performance, IÂ’m not sure, but I take your point that no team can win every match and any team can beat any other but it wasnÂ’t a lack of passion that was at the root of UnitedÂ’s defeat but it was that lack of drive, desire and passion that led to EvertonÂ’s defeat. United losing to WBA has sent me further in to depression to be honest as it gives our Â’protestingÂ’ neighbours a glimmer of hope even at this late stage.

IÂ’d give Sheedy the assistant managers job. He obviously doesnÂ’t take any shit, the way he has the U-18s playing and IÂ’m sure he would be better suited to tightening the defence than the current lot. WeÂ’ve made so many stupid mistakes which have cost far too many points.

The transfer window will be... well, the usual. Where is the ambition at Everton FC? Stop the rollercoaster – I want to get off!!! Except we won’t and we will put ourselves through the same old same old yet again.

Do we not deserve better?

An away game against a side near the bottom, that meant little to us and is at the end of the season.... I was not really expecting the team to pull up any roots. Villa were always going to put in more of a shift.

The Manager should just play the kids and Robles for the remainder.

Yet I read regularly on here that Martinez should be teaching them how to pass the ball, cross the ball, take corners, defend corners, head the ball, control the ball, clear the ball etc etc etc.

Will those who make such comments explain to me exactly at what stage they feel that players should accept responsibility for their own actions as I obviously am missing something.

If wearing an Everton shirt and earning vast money doesnÂ’t motivate them then they are even more fucking shameless than I thought. The only thing that I can offer in their defence is the fact that, in my opinion, they have an insipid buffoon to provide the arse-kicking they require.

Perhaps as I get older, I donÂ’t take it to heart quite as much as I used to, and have trained myself not to get as upset over poor performances, or bad results.

You canÂ’t win em all. ItÂ’s a funny old game, etc...

I know you're only trying to put perspective on this but IÂ’m afraid you canÂ’t see today in the context of the upturn weÂ’ve seen recently as against the season as a whole.

In the first place, the upturn has not been accompanied my a massive upturn in our form. ItÂ’s arisen from some solid defending and a bit of luck. Luck is welcome but itÂ’s better when it comes when youÂ’re not desperate for it.

The win against Man Utd was sheer joy but again, in the context of the season, itÂ’s a one-off.

Leaving aside some of our Europa performances, our season has been for the most part an endless stream of unmitigated boredom. We have a Manager who is lauded for playing open attacking football but we havenÂ’t seen it. He must have the best PR man since Josef Gobbells!

In almost every game you can count on one hand the number of times we work a goalie. There is a lot about Martinez that worries me but, above all else, is his wet-wipe lack of passion and the fact that he looks like he couldnÂ’t motivate a dying man to draw his last breath.

Imploring Everton fans to see the bigger picture, as if somehow it is better than a whole mass of individual performances, doesnÂ’t do the trick. The point being that most of us can see the bigger picture and from where we stand itÂ’s shite!

IÂ’m sure you mean well.

Martinez needs to get it right for 2015-16 and I am afraid that I, for one, will not be content to hear that itÂ’s all a matter of just seeing the bigger picture if weÂ’re still flopping in October.

We are just one of 14 clubs in the league looking for Premier League survival or stability. There is no chance of achieving 4th or winning silverware under this regime or management. The worst part is any victory over the likes of Man Utd or Liverpool is celebrated like winning a cup final.

IÂ’m not upset by the score itself. There are no easy games but by no means we should write it off that easily. The way we let in the goals is pretty damning. Two men on Benteke and he scores? No man in the backpost area? What is that sliding "interception" attempt supposed to do? IÂ’m not really expecting much since we have nothing to play for but pride should be a big motivator.

How can these players be allowed to be so relentlessly careless with their passes? How can a manager witness this dross and offer only gormless looks.

I see the same faces every away game, diehards who spend all their money to follow this team, only to be kicked in the bollocks with yet another shambolic performance.

Maybe if they werenÂ’t giving up their day, sitting in horrible traffic, and spending thousands of pounds, they would be able to simply "put it to bed "and "move on"

Martinez is doing what even Moyes, Smith and Walker failed to do, HeÂ’s killing my love of going to the game.

Second is that Tim Sherwood was a very good player whoÂ’s developed into a very shrewd manager; he was treated disgustingly at Spurs and I would love to see him at Everton.

I have to judge RM by his results and now on a game-by-game basis. As he took the praise for that surreal performance against United (Dare I call it an act of God?) then he must also take the kicks in the balls for what I believe was a truly dreadful performance. There are Evertonians in their thousands spending very hard earned money to go and support this team and John Moores summed it up exactly when sacking John Carey.

We deserve better and by God we should be getting it. Unfortunately we canÂ’t afford compensation payments now and I donÂ’t see RM going even if we are relegated as long as he has contract years left.

IÂ’m back to thinking that heÂ’s an incompetent loonie.

Martinez simply canÂ’t be trusted not to fuck about with odd team selections and tactics. His philosophy of flooding the midfield and playing a low-tempo game with limited pressing will keep rearing its ugly head. My impression is that having secured safety he thought he could indulge once again in his losing brand of football.

The players too could be blamed for a lack of effort but they cannot have been helped by tactical nicompoopery of the grandest scale from our tinkering tactician.

For Evertooday was an absolute shambles., Breaking up a winning team was just the start of it. Please, no more Naismith; sorry, Steven is a cracking fella but he canÂ’t play football at this level. Barry and Howard are also shocking and these three were the spine of the team today.

I have had it with Martinez and his bullshit. ItÂ’s becoming too much too bear. ItÂ’s turning very Moyes-esque...

From a personal point of view, the only good thing about todayÂ’s performance is that it reaffirmed my decision not to renew for next season. I can count on one hand the games IÂ’ve genuinely enjoyed during this campaign. In fact, Abu fucking Hamza would be able to count on one hand the games IÂ’ve enjoyed this season.

Despite making the decision not to renew a while back, IÂ’ve felt myself wavering in recent weeks. When I got the email through yesterday, saying I had until midnight to guarantee my seat, I nearly cracked. Guilty conscience and a realisation that it would be a big change to my routine almost convinced me to just go ahead and do it in the blind hope match days might be better from August on. Then I nodded off on the settee, woke up about 1:30 am and went to bed feeling like a disloyal, fair-weather wanker.

Then I watched todayÂ’s game and felt much better about it all.

And Colin, when was Irvine a defender? He played as a winger here and is a totally flawed ex-manager.

We may be safe but to stand and watch players representing Everton stroll around as if they are in a training session and not replace anyone until 70 mins is just agreeing with the performance.

Substitutes are not just there to replace injured players ("was it not Marino that changed 3 players after 30 min") they are also there to change the shape of the game, and MartinezÂ’s use of substitutes was like his tactics that left a lot to be desired .

For some to suggest that today could be down to our players already being at the beach just shows how little we expect or know.

IÂ’ve said many times that the fella can play, is a decent footballer, and has something about him as per the last few England managers have seen. I just hope heÂ’s still interested in joining because he was head and shoulders above every one of our midfielders today. Sadly, I donÂ’t think heÂ’ll join now as he seems to be enjoying being managed by Sherwood.

To wait as long as he did is mystifying and doesnÂ’t make sense to me, but perhaps he knows more about the game than any of us do. IÂ’m really shocked by NaismithÂ’s fall from grace, not so much by Mirallas who you half expect to be anonymous on any given day.

Re-watching on MotD, it looks to me that Lukaku is another who is playing for himself rather than for Everton Football Club, I donÂ’t mind a player wanting to take the game by the scruff of the neck but it should always be for the benefit of the team and not personal glory alone.

Today was embarrassing and I canÂ’t even blame my whipping boy Osman. Half of this starting eleven would be out for the next game if I were in charge... and, believe me, I have more ideas than Martinez will ever have, judging on this seasonÂ’s fall from grace.

Any given week in the PL, a player gets lucky and pops in a good goal; doing it consistently is the trick. How many has he scored this season? HeÂ’s not what we need... but neither is Roberto.

True blues! Get rid of this quarter wit manager.

The tactical geniuses (hindsight only) are on again telling us we should have kept the same team as last week... You wanted Osman on the left? Brilliant. Back to the dark days stuff with central players playing everywhere. Ten years of evidence that Osman canÂ’t play wide and you want to throw it in after one game where he was played there to counter an opposition threat and got subbed as soon as that threat left the pitch.

It was a bad performance. One of many this season, and very consistent with our away form throughout. YouÂ’ll get over it; you win some, you lose some. Nothing exceptionally different to get used to here.

Man Utd got slated last week by everyone but Evertonians for being toothless and lacking commitment. Do we believe that thereÂ’s a fundamental difference between our losses and everyone elseÂ’s losses?

Losing teams donÂ’t often look to have put in a good performance. We got beat, pretty well, by Villa.

This "canÂ’t be arsed" attitude from the players is criminal, as many point out, they owe it to the fans to give 100 percent.

You miss the point of many here who know that come next season nothing will have changed. You can kid yourself that the deluded one will magically turn it round. Not going to happen and, in the meantime, we go backwards.

The first 45 minutes was abysmal and in my opinion totally unacceptable. We could have gone in level or even a goal to the good at half-time and my opinion about the performance in the first-half wouldn’t have altered. I see no signs of improvement, despite the recent results – if we can’t play when our confidence is relatively high, when can we play?

Strikes me that, after any defeat, heÂ’ll get hit with one of:

ItÂ’s simple, pick your strongest team.

Or

DonÂ’t change a winning team.

Basically, that means that thereÂ’s a chunk of our support who will whine about selections retrospectively every single time we lose. Seems a bit childlike.

I hate losing as much as anyone but, if I blamed it on the manager not selecting Osman on the wing, IÂ’d be completely embarrassed.

ThereÂ’s no doubt we contributed to our own downfall but letÂ’s give the opposition the credit we sought last week.

So how come these bashful overpaid underperforming prima donnaÂ’s get away with it game after game after game. Oh, and I include the Manager and his Backroom staff in that criticism too.

Their wage is, just like yours, dictated by the market. Football has a fairly decent following and generates huge numbers. So they get paid a lot. Millions watch them, they are generating revenue.

They ARE performing in their jobs. The current lot sit in 11th in the English Premier League, one of the top leagues in the world. No, thatÂ’s not good enough for me either, but IÂ’m not a major shareholder.

Just out of interest, what were the targets in your impressive sounding role? Was there some kind of league system involving better resourced companies who could target improved revenue at a net loss? I only ask because that might bring some relevance to the analogy.

Martinez could have ten years to prove his worth and would fail because he is unable to adapt to the rigorous demand of the PL. I think if Martinez had ChelseaÂ’s players he would play them out of position and resort to tippy tappy and no movement. I think we are just destined to wait until Bulshit Bill canÂ’t stand it any longer and that may be too late.

It has not just been one or two players playing badly this season. There is a general malaise throughout the squad.

Last week was a one-off for Phil Carter and shows what the players are capable of when motivated Today was a "whereÂ’s my flip-flops, Roberto, I cant be arsed with your BS" day.

A piss-poor winger for us in his playing days, he became Moyes yes-man with no evidence that he had any big influence on team tactics etc and left us to become a piss-poor manager at West Brom and Preston! WeÂ’ll have someone suggesting bringing in Steve Round next, another Moyes puppet.

There was a lack of fight in some, a lack of skill in others, and a lack of awareness of the most dangerous player on the pitch, Mr Benteke. We were exposed once more by the diagonal, aerial ball. So often the undoing of our defence this season. Jags getting caught again under the flightpath and Stones magnetised to Barry. How often have we seen our defenders sucked out to our right, leaving the vertically challenged Baines to jump with a statuesque brute?

Martinez is responsible for motivating the team. Is he too laid back? Does he tell them that they are all world-beaters and will win easily? Why, when everyone and his dog can see that subs are needed, does he put off the move until it is too late?

These are the things that get my goat. I canÂ’t just blame Nais for his lack of skill, or Mirallas for his poor attitude, or Barry for being too slow. I can live with all of those things, but if they come out flat and disinterested, then I question the manager, and if he isnÂ’t happy, then he needs to change things.

The after-match interview was also annoying. He admitted that we were poor first half, but expected this after the Man Utd win! He also thought we should have got something out of the game from the second half performance. Well, our penalty was fortuitous, our second goal in injury time, and also could have been disallowed, oh and Villa also had several opportunities too!

One final point: Lukaku is so over-rated. never a 㿈M striker. The only aspect of his game that is up to scratch is his ability to shrug off defenders and surge through with the ball at his feet. However, he often ruins this by taking it too far and being tackled, or plays an over-hit pass in the wrong place. He is slow, lazy, poor in the air and carrying an extra stone. Benteke looks twice the player, quick, can jump and intelligent movement off the ball.

Next season is going to be just like this: more downs than ups and mid-table.

"Jagielka and Stones have been absolutely outstanding over the last 2 months." Actually it was me.......

So what happens the very next match????

To coin a phrase from Forest Gump – "being an Evertonian is just like a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re gonna get".

I think IÂ’m loosing it.

But it seems to be a dangerous obsession of this manager and something BK has no control of; in the end, it could cost us our PL status.

I can agree with your general ans specific points but I can never ever ever accept an EvertonIan being thankful for a poor performance and a defeat to prove any point. Please stop as you do yourself a massive disservice and completely invalidate your valid points. Support for the team should never be conditional or tied to an agenda.

Unacceptable in my view.

If things donÂ’t improve by the start of next season he should be shown the exit by October.

BK cannot ignore the fans.WeÂ’ve been lucky and hit a 5 match unbeaten run that has saved us this season. Also we should be thankful that there has been more woeful teams than us this season

His post match comments are always full of shit. I appreciate motivating players at this stage of the season can be difficult, but our players still have a hell of a lot to prove. You would of thought motivation wouldnÂ’t be a problem after the Maure game.Obviously it was.
Inconsistency,and lack of momentum are 2 key words assoiciated with Evertion ths year

Brace yourselves for next season, and keep the faith

If you think that Liverpool can still get 4th, despite playing so badly, it shows that for us to be so low down the table, surrounded by dross, that we have been utter shite for much of the season.

To answer your question, he has scored 2 goals this season which matches both McCarthy & Barkley, is 2 more than Barry, Gibson & Besic & 1 more than Osman & McGeady.

To me, heÂ’d fit in nicely with Besic, McCarthy & Barkley. Definitely have him in in front of the others mentioned. Just saying!

He was so worried about winning the Cup, knowing Wigan’s position in the League, that he went ahead and won it for his own personal resume – not the team’s best interests. He needed a result and didn’t even try to get it by going all out at the Cup final.

Worse, because of his leadership, Wigan dropped sooo many points from winning positions that he put them in that position. His trademark at Wigan was to lose the lead or the tie late in the game. That is on him and the poor play was on him.

He is to blame. The Owner did not make the player personnel decisions – RM did. If they didn’t have good players, it is his fault... but then why are you accepting of him bringing any of those players (second tier I guess from your post) to this club?

Wigan is now a third-tier team and please donÂ’t tell me that this is not partly or mostly due to the fall from the EPL as it will strain your usual credibility.

Why do you instantly point the finger at the manager? And what makes you think I’m sticking up for him? I was one of the vociferous voices on here dead-against his appointment in the first place, and I still don’t think he’s a good manager – far from convinced in fact.

I do however (and I know I keep harping on about it) have a bit more perspective, and therefore don’t lay ALL the blame consistently at the door of the manager – why does nobody on here blame the players? They are the ones out there kicking the damn ball about, not the manager. How can you say RM hasn’t motivated them? They just won 5 out of 6 games, and then lost one and all of a sudden he’s a useless manager again. A week ago you were all lauding him for beating Man Utd 3-0.

How fickle, the life of a football supporter: hero one week, zero the next – I just don’t happen to go to the same extremes most people on here seem to, so I’m seen as some sort of apologist which simply isn’t true.

I don’t rate Martinez, I don’t rate several of our players, and I make no apology for the shit season the players (and manager) have served up. We are though, better of late than we have been and you can’t win every game. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and praise the opposition as being better than you – yesterday, Villa were better than us, it happens. Go listen to Louis Van Gaal last week for the same story.

Look back over the recent wins that have kept us safe:

3-0 at home to Newcastle, who have lost 7 on the trot subsequently and we were hanging on against 10 men for most of the second half at 2-0.

1-2 at QPR where we were outplayed most of the game.

1-0 at home to Southampton and again we were totally outplayed.

1-0 at home to Burnley against 10 men for over half the game.

3-0 at home to Man Utd. The only game I didnÂ’t see, maybe we were brilliant or maybe Man Utd are in a slump having just lost three on the trot.

Results are of course important and for us have been critical to allow us to pull away from the relegation zone; however, a poor team can always put together a run based on a bit of luck (opposition red cards) and playing the opposition at the right time, eg, Newcastle and Man Utd.

When you look at the bigger picture, we still have the same problems as we have had all season: poor team selection, tactics, no clear playing style/pattern, bad buys.

We donÂ’t have a top class manager who can get the most out of some decent players. We have a below average manager who is not at the same level as the likes of Pulis, Monk, Hughes & Koemann.

It really is painful to see a Premier League manager who is so much out of his depth... He tries to cover his shocking decision-making by talking absolute bollocks. Desperately making up the most utter bollocks and expecting the "supporters to believe / support him.

This shite and the pain it causes will not stop until the job is taken from him. BK... Please release him from his misery!!!(Roberto: Go find another club you can exploit!... You’re taking the piss.)

You only have to look at Chelsea or Newcastle to see why you should blame the manager and not the players. Good managers get the most out of the players. Bad managers make good players into bad ones.

I have been watching the blues for 55 years and while that doesn't give me superior rights, it does mean I have seen more than my fair share of good and bad managers. I can still honestly say Martinez has been by far the worst manager I have seen at EFC.

Some people on here are like a fox ignoring a chicken corpse and examining the wire fence for food. ItÂ’s simple. Mid-table finish and dreadful football = sack. If we keep talking about that, rather than looking for reasons to Â’prove heÂ’s rubbishÂ’, maybe our Â’directorsÂ’ will notice and weÂ’ll be rid of him.

Your posts are becoming increasingly embarrassing.

"I do however (and I know I keep harping on about it) have a bit more perspective" – No you don't, you have simply deluded yourself into thinking so.

"A week ago, you were all lauding him for beating Man Utd 3-0. How fickle the life of a football fan" ... That right there sums up just how far away you are from not only understanding the game, but understanding this website. Are you really so blinkered to think all those who lauded Martinez last week are the same people who are slating him and disagreeing with you now?

Football (this website) attracts many different views and opinions, on all things Everton. People will always disagree and not always about the same things. However, if you make enough silly statements, you will invariably have a large number of people disagreeing with you, about a wider range of issues. Unfortunately for you, you just can't put them all in the same box marked "you lot" .

This site has very strict rules about "Better Blue" nonsense, so I will tread very carefully here... Some people here feel very wounded and down when Everton get beat, especially if we have played shite in the process. It will ruin their day... their weekend, In many cases even their week. They simply can't shrug their shoulders, put it to bed and move on. Everton play too big a part of their lives.

Now I know that you feel you have "more perspective" and you are able to readily shrug of a shite day like yesterday, but you clearly don't have a clue how much it effects others.

Ever thought they simply care more than you?

That Â’more perspectiveÂ’ comment from James Marshall got my hackles up too. Â’PerspectiveÂ’ is one of the words I would ban from here if I had my druthers, along with Â’fickle fansÂ’ and claims regarding Â’proper EvertoniansÂ’.

It comes across as a cheap and offensive way of trying to elevate oneÂ’s personal viewpoint over others. His "why does nobody on here blame the players?" is also incredibly asinine. Does he even read the other posts where... guess what... posters are blaming the players?

Our away form is poor, and really Martinez needs to think about an away setup, and a home setup. Benteke is a talent though, IÂ’d love him in our Number 9 shirt.

If Martinez had any balls, heÂ’d go to Kenwright and tell him heÂ’s getting rid of some of these non-achievers. He might even say Â’them or meÂ’. But he wonÂ’t. HeÂ’ll soldier on as right now he wonÂ’t be getting a better job. HeÂ’ll play them here and there, wonÂ’t try the youngsters and weÂ’ll be in the same boat next season, treading water without any rebuilding.

I think heÂ’ll be here next season. I think weÂ’ll be midtable next season. ThatÂ’s not good enough for me.

Someone kindly got me a Drop The Dead Donkey DVD for my birthday recently. Martinez is starting to remind me of George Dent. Has a sense that the jobÂ’s beyond him, wonÂ’t make decisions, wonÂ’t make the changes he knows he needs to make, wonÂ’t sack the people who arenÂ’t toeing the line, losing credibility all over the place.

It was during the Leicester - Newcastle game when some Newcastle fans unfurled a banner. No, the miracle wasnÂ’t that the spelling was correct, although that is a minor miracle in itself. No, the miracle was the accuracy of the sentiment and I think that most of us would agree with it. The banner read as follows

"We donÂ’t demand a team that wins every game.
We demand a club that tries"

Firstly, the shock effect it will have on players who may be used to a calm, measured response, will have an effect on them. Secondly, it will get the players angry, which will create some adrenalin and impact on their performance.

When the second half started, the players looked just as relaxed and casual as they did at the start of the match. I donÂ’t think Martinez has the man-management abilities to do this (deliberately appearing to go nuts with the players still requires control and skill to do it properly); genuinely loosing the plot it is no good.

The whole team plays like there are no real consequences to playing poorly and for me that can only be attributed to the culture created by our laid back Spaniard.

Yesterday looked to me like a cocktail of a manager not knowing his best team/formation, not being able to get his ideas across to the players, the players lacking motivation and basic passing ability and another team better set up and fired up.

This seasonÂ’s problems start with the manager, who is being aided and abetted by some pretty spineless players. He needs to go and some of them need to go.

Yes, he talks too much to the media; yes, he’s too positive at times... and yes, he talks gobbledygook too often – but this doesn’t make him a soft touch behind the scenes.

Am I not entitled to my opinion, without being abusive or offensive? Have you tried your arm on the live forum for example, where the level of abuse aimed at fellow posters, players, and the manager are off the scale?

When I refer to Â’you lotÂ’ I of course generalise, and my opinion is no less valid than anyone elses.

Darren - IÂ’ve been a blue for 33 or my 41 years as I recall, so to say I Â’donÂ’t care as much as othersÂ’ is both an assumption and indeed offensive. I would suggest that you tread that line very carefully as youÂ’ve said because your comments are aimed directly at another poster (me), whereas mine as as mentioned above, a generalisation regarding the posters on TW.

Clearly you donÂ’t want to get into a slagging match any more than I do, so thank you for refraining from taking it further but to call my comments Â’embarrassingÂ’ is in my opinion a little much. My opinion on club/team/performance matters are no less valid than yours.

Michael – all football fans are fickle, that’s a fact of life. You only have to look at the way players are lauded and cheered one week, and derided the next – just like the manager. That’s a comment I wholeheartedly stand by. We’re all guilty of it, regardless of who we support. Football is an extremely fickle beast. To compare it to the ’proper Evertonians’ line is way off.

Also using terms like ’asinine’ would seem to me to be beyond acceptable as well – you’re basically calling me a fool and I thought direct abuse was banned on ToffeeWeb.

Of course it's all about opinions and of course you are entitled... But when you say you have 'more perspective' than others, that is arrogant, offensive and derogatory.

I donÂ’t think itÂ’s unreasonable for fans to react differently from one game to the next, in response to how the team play. If that is being Â’fickleÂ’, yes, I guess youÂ’re right. Unfortunately, it becomes a derogatory label, though, as if (according to some) they should not react differently as circumstances change. For that reason, I would avoid it.

I would also avoid making generalizations about posters. The range of posts is very wide, so your generalization is likely to cause offense or be wrong.

Case in point, it was your generalization: "why does nobody on here blame the players?" that attracted the description Â’asinineÂ’. If numerous posters are indeed blaming the players, what else should I call it?

IÂ’ll try not to generalise, especially if others have noted that the players were at fault. Fair cop.

As for the Â’asinineÂ’ retort - perhaps you could merely have mentioned that other people had mentioned the players being at fault without resorting to any sort of label or abusive term. IÂ’d be happier with that. Thanks for responding.

My feeling is itÂ’s used very cheaply as a label to condemn fans for daring to react differently to changing circumstances, and to imply therefore that they should instead be constant in their views. In my opinion, such demands of honest fans whose reactions are genuine become completely unreasonable. And that in my view makes it a derogatory blanket term to devalue the views of those fans.

Correct me if that is not the way Â’fickleÂ’ is used.

The team wins, we praise them. The team loses, we attack them. Fickle, no? Our affections for individual players can go from genius to moron in seconds during games – again, the fickle nature of the sport.

I’ve seen him get animated with officials, but not as aggressive as some managers, although I’m not saying he should be harder on officials. My opinion is that based on his public/touch line persona he’s not a hard man capable of scaring the crap out of players when needed. I can imagine however Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger and others doing so even though I don’t know if this is the case. They have an edge to their personalities which can be seen in the various run ins they’ve had with other managers and each other over the years on the touch line and in the media – that’s something we’ve all seen. We saw it in Moyes too occasionally, but I’ve never seen anything that suggests Martinez has this side to his character.

We all have to make judgments about all sorts of things, you must do the same too, Paul. In those situations we donÂ’t know the reality of a situation for sure and we may never, but we weigh up the situation based on the available evidence and come to a conclusion. IÂ’ve reached mine on Martinez based on seeing him manage us for nearly 2 years; if I see anything in future that changes it fair enough, but IÂ’m not expecting to.

I know people who really do see our results as life or death. I also know people like you who can shrug off a defeat and – as you say – "put it to bed".

I think we all care to varying degrees and I think that has been clearly demonstrated by you on this thread.

Your claim that you have "more perspective" did embarrass me – that's not an opinion, it's a boast. You are right about one thing though. I’m not interested in a slagging match.

Looking back on the thread, IÂ’m more concerned about what PW + JD had to say; both passionate Evertonians, they are often opposed in their views... Yet they have come to the same decision. Don't you think that's worrying ?

Some commentator on the BBC made an interesting and misplaced remark that Everton "donÂ’t really have anything to play for anymore." Could not be further from the truth. The players and even more so the manager have an awful lot of making up to do to the fans for this seasonÂ’s dismal performances.

The past 2 games sum up Martinez perfectly. Sublime to the ridiculous. Forever tinkering, forever undoing his own good work. I thought perhaps after the Man Utd game a corner had been turned... but no: I find Martinez even more infuriatingly easy to predict than his predecessor.

I understand that some people take a loss to heart – I used to be one of them, but the older I get, the easier I’m able to take a defeat, and I do feel I can look at results in context as per yesterday. That’s a change that’s taken me many years I can assure you!

Anyway, I didnÂ’t mean it to sound like a boast, merely a commentary on my personal position so apologies if it sounded like I was having a dig at people. I wasnÂ’t.

Since Martinez was appointed IÂ’ve seen all manner of presumed/imagined character defects prescribed to him. I donÂ’t have any inside knowledge, so I just go on what I see on the pitch.

Of course, weÂ’re all unhappy with this season, especially after the raised expectations. Because we donÂ’t really know whatÂ’s going on, we can fill the gaps in our own way.

I think that our league position, the quality of football and the lack of any sense of forward planning is enough to warrant his dismissal. The relentless pursuit of supposed character defects, selective quoting and selective historical references that get passed off as facts donÂ’t help anyone and donÂ’t, in my view, add to the case for his dismissal. IÂ’m not suggesting youÂ’re doing this; I just find it a very frustrating side of this site at the moment.

I hope I didn’t cause offence. I’m sure we both want the same things for the team – maybe we’re expressing our frustrations in a different way!

That single sentence should be sent to the people running the club as it succinctly encapsulates this sorry season and what the future may hold if Roberto is allowed to continue in his position as manager.

The lowly league position could have been forgiven if it had looked as if the team were progressing on the pitch, but the quality of football for the most part has been shocking and sadly not completely out of place in the current Premier League. The apparent lack of forward planning is a club issue and not just a managerial issue, but the charge at the moment is a fair one.

As regarding some of the comments on here, my god, how low have we become for that shite, that has been churned out for most weeks, to have become acceptable. After watching for 50 years, I would like to think the reality of not winning the league or a major trophy has become harder each year. But what I will never except is a team wearing the Royal blue Jersey not giving a shite.

The same happened when we pasted Newcastle at home, then he changes it for the Europa league game, ok Lennon was cuptied but others were dropped and like the Villa game, we got turned over.

All those who previously slagged Osman off, take a good look at our results when Osman has been in the team.

Your "superior perspective" is deeply flawed on every level.

"seeing results at the moment for what they are – pretty much meaningless" is just so completely wrong.

On an emotional level, I am older and have been watching Everton longer than you, and no game involving Everton is ever meaningless. I take it you donÂ’t attend many games, or at least not the "meaningless" ones? Because no fan who does thinks like you.

But even taking your deluded emotional superiority out of the equation, with each league place worth around ٟ.6M to a relatively cash strapped club, youÂ’re so deeply wrong on a completely practical level too,

My concern is that these overpaid players decide what games they’re up for and what games their attitude is well below the expectations of us as fans and the heritage of Everton FC. So the manager is to blame because he has not got the respect of the players.

The players proved a point at Goodison by uping there game and spanking Manchester United. With the right attitude from the first whistle, we should have given Aston Villa a harder game. I fear Martinez will have us all repeating the same thing come next September.

I was pointing out that Martinez keeps being given a free pass at Wigan. He did not improve the team over four years and yes, did go all out to win a cup at the expense of the season. Yet, all the press could talk about was the Wigan effort in the cup run and how Martinez was a genius.

He was rewarded for the Cup win... not the Wigan finishes in the EPL over his time there, and given a free pass and did bounce to Everton (a step up over Wigan) without anyone caring about hiring a manager who had just been relegated due to his inability to find good players on a limited budget (sound familiar) over a four-year period rather than a team newly promoted with no investment in new players and then going back down. Everyone seemed to make excuses blaming the City, the ClubÂ’s fanbase, etc instead of looking at the man who managed them out of the EPL.

As for WiganÂ’s plight, yes, in part it is due to the relegation. He took a few of the better (this term is relative) players with him and others left for higher wages. It is not uncommon to see teams struggle in the Championship after relegation and finish lower table and maybe get relegated again (Wolves did it). Not every club is like QPR paying EPL wages in the Championship to keep players in order to go up again.

Martinez I think is a Â’big gameÂ’ manager, but nothing more.

Where your Â’free passÂ’ argument stands up is the indulgence he got off Pegleg and the media. He was lauded for failure. Maybe Pegleg knew heÂ’d stitched him up re selling players, maybe he was talking him up to sell him, who knows.

Most managers use their time at smaller clubs to further their reputation. IÂ’ve got no problem with that. Everton was a step up for him. If he leaves us to get a better job it will be because heÂ’s done well for us.

IÂ’m not convinced that he sacrificed the league in order to win the cup. More that he pulled it off against us and City in the cup and their final league position reflected his ability to get his players performing consistently through the season. Sound familiar?

Both Paul Jewel and Steve Bruce did better at Wigan than RM, and their budgets were just as low as RM's.

Now if you were asked would you have either as manager of Everton? I think you would say no. But our board decided that a manager with a worse record than Jewel or Bruce should be our manager because he won the cup, absolutely ridiculous. He hasnÂ’t improved one player since he has been here, his transfers (apart from McCarthy) have been very questionable.

Watch out with your selective hypothesis - I donÂ’t think Bruce or Jewell have ever got a club to finish 5th in the table, have they?

Therefore, we should be expecting to be about sixth in the league, with a good cup run (ie, semi-final or final) every few years and even a trophy once or twice a decade. Obviously we canÂ’t hope to win the League with English football set up as it is.

We over-achieved a bit last year and this year we significantly under-achieved. I will wait and see what next season brings. Two bad seasons running has to be a P45 IMO.

Agreed but I sometimes think that by focusing on the Cups one can overlook the day to day preparation required to perform well in the season. Martinez took over a team slotted to finish 15th to 20th at Wigan and the problem for me is he did not improve the team on a season long basis. He didnÂ’t get more out of the players collectively than perhaps individually they were capable of over a seasonÂ’s run and isnÂ’t doing it here either.

Wigan needed a good manager who could get them to 10-14th. Everton need a manager that can take a team that should finish 6-10th and make them push for 4th and I do not see him doing it; I give the credit for the finish last seaason more to MoyesÂ’ players and discipline than to Martinez.

Having said all of that, I do not want him here over the summer but given that I feel that most managers need 3 seasons to find their level, I suspect he will be given more time and games at Everton. I can only hope that if the last two seasons have been like a roller coaster ride then the third season helps him find his feet and produce consistent preparation, training, results and efforts (and tactics?).

Kevin Mirallas is our main right mid, he buys a no-mark to replace him in McGeady, he loans Atsu to replace them both and then needs to loan another player in Lennon to fix a problem we never had!

Lennon has helped pick us up but if Martinez had a brain we would play Mirallas on the right and we would have bought (not loaned) a pacy player for the left.

For all the deserved criticism heÂ’s getting now, IÂ’d have been more than happy to see him build on his good work last season. He didnÂ’t and I think itÂ’s going to be hard for him next season unless he has a big clearout or gets the players genuinely back on side.