Martinez fine with Barkley's penalty miss

It must be a nightmare living with him.

"whatÂ’s for tea, honey?"
"fish fingers and beans Bobby. But IÂ’ve burnt the fish fingers"
"oh, donÂ’t worry. Burnt fish fingers are phenomenal with a unique taste of errrrrr...........burnt. Anyway, the burning is healthy and makes you better person and happier".

IÂ’ve not read that myself...but that is absolutely bananas if he really has come out with such a statement.

My mate (who IÂ’ve known from school) acted totally out of character on Saturday. HeÂ’s only ever bet in fivers or tenners, all his life, but for some inexplicable reason he decided to put 25 quid on 1-0.

IÂ’m going to give him a call later and ask him if Bobby was in the bookies with him placing the same bet

Dearly dreary me, what have we got!?

Â’IÂ’m happier he missed it rather than scoredÂ’ - how the hell can anyone, let alone a manager say this? He wants the lad to gain the experience of missing a penalty in front of the Park End instead of the joy and experience of actually scoring one, which presumably will make him more confident and hungrier to take them going forward!

Nevermind the fact that Baines has taken 15 penalties in the league and scored 14 of them. Hey Booby, how about just saying that Baines is on penalties and leave it at that!

From what I can gather itÂ’s Lukaku first and Baines as deputy but it appears itÂ’s anyoneÂ’s call if Lukaku is not out there.

Chaotic stuff.

As we won, heÂ’s glad now that it happens as heÂ’s now had opportunity to see the playersÂ’ character following an event that could have left Barkley going into his shell afterwards.

Seems fair to me

Still quite not sure on his logic though. I suppose maybe it was good to see a positive reaction rather than letting the head drop.

In fact I wonder what the players actually do at Finch Farm as fitness training clearly isnÂ’t high on the agenda either.

Do any TWers go to Finch Farm who can give some feedback? (IÂ’m genuinely curious, thanks.)

But does anyone actually like/want Roberto as our Manager?

Bizarre question, but I cant recall ever seeing anyone say anything positive or supportive of him. Even Moyes never got it this bad.

Like I said, not looking for a hurl of abuse, just the question I ask.

It wonÂ’t be long before we start passing the ball all the way back to the halfway line from our corners.

The man has shown great signs of insanity this season after such a promising start to his Everton tenure in 2013..

Typical bullshit as ever.

Imagine Roberto reacting to his wife cheating or something:

Â’Well darling, IÂ’m happier that you cheated rather than stay so loyal because you can learn from the experience and use that to be a more trusting, loving wife in the future, so we can maintain our phenomenal relationship and your great characterÂ’

If we were to need a replacement manager, itÂ’s a pity we wonÂ’t be linked with names such as Klopp, but rather the usual suspects of Lennon, Hughes, Allardyce et al.

Penalties are yet another footballing basic that weÂ’re behind the curve on.

I think that RM is obsessed with trying to articulate what the players would want to hear. But he doesnÂ’t seem to realise this could be done with a quiet word in the ear and doesnÂ’t need airing in public. He should also be thinking Â’what would the fans like to hearÂ’, which is usually the opposite of his rainbow tinted view of the world, but this never seems to cross his mind

Unfortunately, despite his age, I think heÂ’s been in the game too long to change and I truly fear for the next few years

Just going to be another complete waste of space next season as far as I am concerned. Everton fans please donÂ’t expect Europe or silverwear next season, it just not going to happen.

As for RMÂ’s comments, I can see his logic.

Allowing Barkley to take it is all well and good if we were 3 or 4 nil up (after the pigs have flown over GP) but at 0-0, I really donÂ’t get it. Baines has one of the best penalty records in the league. I can only conclude that something (again) has gone on behind the scenes and RM and Baines no longer see eye to eye...

Whatever, Martinez states in public, the issue of who takes penalties should be sorted out before the match starts and should only change if the appointed person "bottles" it, as you say. Martinez is spouting rubbish again, as usual, if he thinks that it should be sorted out in situ by the players. Has he never heard of league positions being decided on goal difference and does he not realise the cost of even one missed league position? The relentless at-all-costs positivity reminds me of the mindless corporate speak that I was subjected to during my working life and only has the opposite effect which is to make me even more cynical!

Lack of attention to detail such as this makes me think that Martinez is a totally disorganised individual and this seasonÂ’s ludicrous pre-season arrangements only confirm that impression.

Can anyone imagine a Mourinho being so laissez faire?

The only thing that can be more bizarre would be the sight of the men in white coats chasing Martinez across Goodison Park amidst a game (like a scene out of Fawlty Towers) whilst the players as one all point at Martinez as he is being chased around the pitch much to the entertainment of the supporters. A special moment of character.

IÂ’ve decided to embrace the Martinez Looney Bin World. Bill will keep him, the football will be terrible, other supporters will be entertained by their teams, weÂ’ll be always be remembered as the team that had "El Lunatic" at the helm. ItÂ’s not going to change, embrace the madness of El Bob, at least we canÂ’t say it wonÂ’t be boring (off the pitch that is).

Get this guy his own reality show. Let the world join us on this crazy phenominal journey weÂ’re on. The Martinez Show, surely a ratings winner across the world!

IÂ’ve given up on crying, itÂ’s time for laughing...

"Baines... is just a coward and does not want to take them. If he did he would have pulled rank and took it, he is a scared pushover who does not want confrontation."

What Ray said @ 53. Having been our primary penalty taker over many seasons, scoring all but one of 16 PL penalties in all manner of pressurised situations, "a coward, scared pushover, who avoids confrontation" is NOT how I would describe Leighton Baines.

After the Mirallas miss against WBA, you would have thought behind closed doors the penalty situation would have been definitively resolved. It hasn’t.

The situation has now escalated whereby whenever we get a penalty uncertainty abounds, extra pressure is heaped unnecessarily on the shoulders of any penalty taker in an already pressurised situation.

As a further consequence, Leighton has been placed in an impossible situation by poor management, leadership and clear decision making by the manager and players alike. If he makes a scene and contests the issue with the player who has usurped his penalty taking role, it potentially distracts the eventual penalty taker further, as mentioned above.

If and when LB next takes a penalty, he will also be under additional pressure given the shenanigans of EvertonÂ’s last 3 penalties when LB was on the pitch.

Unquestionably, IMO, Baines is THE proven and best penalty taker at the club over many seasons. Yet this season players have unilaterally gone against a long established protocol: Leighton takes the penalties.

Again, IMO, it is unprofessional, amateurish and sadly all too indicative of a laissez-faire attitude that has infiltrated the club this season in many areas, not only on the subject of penalties.

Rank bad management and decision making by manager and players alike. Again, to quote Ray @ 53:

"Can anyone imagine a Mourinho being so laissez faire?"

And finally, RMÂ’s quotes on the matter. Seriously, can any one make sense of, or even a case for, whatever Roberto was trying to say on the subject of Everton penalties and penalty takers?

Everton are relegated under Barcelona Bobby.

Statement. " IÂ’m glad we got relegated, the players will play twice as phenomenal to get us back into the premiership and that can only be a good thing."

HeÂ’s a knobhead.

Seems a valid point to me. That said, Barkley should have never been anywhere near the ball in the first place.

Roberto, the philosopher, needs to tell Baines – and everyone else – that he is the best penalty taker at the club and if he’s on the pitch, he’s on them.

As an aside... RomÂ’s penalties have so far been terrible. I donÂ’t know how heÂ’s established himself as numero uno.

The fact he either was or wasnÂ’t bothered isnÂ’t the issue, itÂ’s about standing up to Mirallas and saying Â’no we need to score, IÂ’m taking it.Â’

At that time we needed to see leaders on the pitch, players taking responsibility. Sadly, the ones we look to didnÂ’t fancy it.

He must have said "incredible" at least 100 times and on the subject of the penalties it was obvious he has had a falling out with Bainesy because he kept deflecting the questions about Bainesy being the nominated penalty taker by saying we have 3 or 4 penalty takers (Lukaku, Barry, Ross) and whoever feels right at the "moment" will take it. But then contradicted himself by saying Lukaku is the nominated penalty taker but wasnÂ’t on the pitch.

This man will make us all as insane as him if he is allowed to carry on.

But it shouldnÂ’t even lead to that: the manager declares who should take the pen. All the players are to go through the motions and have Baines take them. ItÂ’s called professionalism FFS.

We could try Barry as the penalty taker next time. Instead of aiming for the goal, pass it backwards and then around the back looking for the decisive opening. Or just decline the penalty opportunity and let ref decide how to restart the game.

On a slightly more serious note, there is a rumour going around that both sets of Arsenal and Villa supporters will be joining together to wish Gerrard a Happy Birthday in the 35th minute of the Cup Final which is a lovely touch. :)

Can you imagine Mourinho, Ferguson et al saying that they were glad one of their players missed a penalty? Absolutely not, thatÂ’s because theyÂ’re winners and they donÂ’t tolerate mistakes and sloppy attitudes and thatÂ’s why their teams were/are always competing for trophies at the end of each and every season.

At Everton, we appear to have degenerated into the realms of no-marks (to be fair, this is not all MartinezÂ’s fault, the board have been contributing to this for years) and with that attitude of fans defending this by throwing the onus on Baines by saying he has no bottle is ridiculous. Maybe if we carry on defending this kind of verbal rubbish, then maybe we deserve the physical rubbish we are continually seeing on the pitch.

There doesnÂ’t seem to be a team policy re penalties, and if that is so, it would be outrageous. Okay, the penalty taker needs to be changed from time to time but, in this case, our expert was on the field, as he was when Kev pushed himself forward and missed. We need to know, donÂ’t we? Is this how Martinez is managing us?

Lennon, and Pienaar last week, are the only team members who currently look like they really want to get into dangerous positions. You could almost see Barkley transform whenever he approached the penalty area, as he heeded the "take the safe option, take the safe option" heÂ’s learned from the whispering under the pillowcase...

I agree with you, the Premier League is too competitive to give the young players the game time they need to develop but that is what Martinez has done with Barkley this season.

I agree, none of the managers you mention would accept our philosophy because they are in a completely different position to our own. They have oodles of cash and expectations to win; weÂ’re trying to get to a level where we can compete with the monied teams by developing footballers.

To get to that level, we have to get used to playing with the ball; mistakes have been made, and theyÂ’ve cost us, but the long-term objective is still in place.

I think itÂ’ll be interesting to see who we bring in during the summer, 2 or 3 players to challenge for first team places and a couple to progress from the academy.

We donÂ’t have the money to be competitive now and with the extra TV cash all clubs will have more money to attract players. The philosophy and structure Martinez has put in place will benefit us in the next 2 to 3 seasons.
ThatÂ’s hard to accept because we all want instant success but the reality is even with MoyesÂ’s best teams we struggled.

What is different is the young players coming through and being brought in: Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, McCarthy and Besic. ThatÂ’s half our team and only McCarthy has the game time under his belt... we have Garbutt, Browning and Ledson being pushed forward from the academy.

It really is a sea change in style and approach and whilst itÂ’s not been pretty this season the experience will help develop these youngsters into top players.

A manager may take a player aside after a game and put an arm around and tell them that ok you made a mistake but learn from it and make sure it doesnÂ’t happen again. You donÂ’t publicly come out and say it is fine to make mistakes. The point about Mourinho/Ferguson etc is that privately they would put the arm around the shoulder but also make sure the player wouldnÂ’t make the same mistake again. Our players donÂ’t seem to learn and part of that issue is surely the manager publicly saying its ok to mess up again and again. To be honest, one of the youngest, most inexperienced players has been one of the best in John Stones. In experience terms, Barkley is head and shoulders above him but not in performance. Maybe that is due to being constantly told itÂ’s ok to mess up?

IÂ’ve seen and heard a lot about the long term vision and how things are going to get better after 2/3 years but I see no evidence of this plan being in place. If weÂ’d finished 15th this year with Robles, Garbutt and Besic being fixtures in the side and Browning, Long, Ledson etc getting regular run outs then IÂ’d have accepted that. That would show we were planning for the future and you would hope the players would improve with experience.

It hasnÂ’t happened though. WeÂ’ve still got all the old heads in the team, many of whom have either been signed or been given a new contract by Martinez. How can you sign Barry, Alcaraz, Kone and EtoÂ’o and claim to be building for the future? It doesnÂ’t make sense.

Also, you say the situation has changed with regards to young players being in the side, but it hasnÂ’t at all. Lukaku, Stones etc are only the same age as Fellaini, Arteta, Baines, Yobo etc were when they were brought in. Despite what his critics will tell you, Moyes never had a problem playing young players, he had a problem playing people who couldnÂ’t play to strict instructions and had maverick tendencies. ThatÂ’s why Barkley was marginalised while the likes of Rodwell, Gosling, Anichebe etc all played at the same age.

@79
Michael I agree with you to some extent. Yes we have to get used to playing with the ball and with mixed success that has happened. My problem with Martinez is not his ideology its the shambolic ill discipline. Would Mourinho have tolerated Mirallas or Barkley grabbing the ball and missing penalties while your designated penalty taker was on the field? Not a chance

If Ross was the player charged with the responsibility prior to the game, there was no need for Baines to do anything at all.

ItÂ’s enough of a shambles with an apparent free-for-all on penalties without two of our players fighting like schoolboys as to is going to take the pen.

Blaming Baines is ridiculous when the blame lies with Martinez for not doing the basics and designating a penalty taker. After all, this is the third time the situation has arisen in four months. Talk about not learning from your mistakes.

Helen, he seems an unassuming guy - he probably doesnÂ’t want to get into an unseemly scramble for the ball, like a scene from a school playground. Martinez should sort this out once and for all before the game starts and if Baines doesnÂ’t fancy it for whatever reason during the game, there should be a designated stand-in. Even my amateur football team had this sorted! You cannot manage a professional football team in such a casual manner.

Colin, maybe Baines is distracted because El Messiah has cut him off at the knees this season, same as Coleman by not playing traditional wingers which they both have benefitted from in the past by providing support/cover. Instead he has often played with 3 number 10s on the field and, even when he does play wingers, they always come inside, again leaving both the fullbacks isolated.

It's no coincidence that both fullbacks have looked impotent when they have tried to play their normal game, instead with the lack of support and cover, both have gone into their shells and have become conservative due to the fact that if they do go forward there have been gaping holes behind them, often leading to goals. Nice one Bobby... master tactician

What El Messiah must take credit for (oops freudian slip) be accountable for in their absence is either not playing wingers at all or having them come inside all the time.

When you have two of the best, most creative marauding fullbacks in the country then you play to their strengths regardless of their regular partners being injured, not stifle their talents and arguably making them look incompetent fools in the process.

I think what comes out of MartinezÂ’s mouth is pure hyperbole. Last season by Christmas I couldnÂ’t stand his repetitive sound bites and cheery disposition. Now I can only listen to his pre-match on a Thursday, he doesnÂ’t get so carried away.

Rightly or wrongly, heÂ’s tried to give the players the responsibility and unfortunately many of them havenÂ’t been able to produce any kind of decent form.

I think the dressing room unrest has been the main cause behind the performances this season. It looked like the belief had gone. If Martinez can maintain a strong dressing room, then he has a chance.

The experience of this season will count a lot for the players over the next few seasons, as I think nearly being dragged right into a relegation dog-fight wasnÂ’t what theyÂ’d signed up for.

The players can play better individually and collectively, weÂ’ve witnessed that last season. Lennon has replaced Deulofeu and brought pace out wide and we look better for it.

I think Martinez played the best hand he had, with Pienaar, Mirallas, Osman, Gibson missing and McGeady and Atsu not at it. Stones was a massive miss.

All he had was EtoÂ’o, Lukaku, Barkley and Naismith, I was so excited by the prospect of them four plus our full backs making it an attacking six. Strangers the lot of them.

CouldnÂ’t believe it when I saw he started them the second time, or the third... I canÂ’t defend some of his decisions or lack of them and the performance away at Stoke was the worst IÂ’ve seen us play in a while, he could have gone then for me.

But to come through that with the quality players we have should be seen as an opportunity to push on in the other direction. Whatever has happened this season is in the past, if Martinez has the backing of the dressing room then I think he has to be given the chance next season plus I think the players will have a lot to prove next season.

He was fine with the pre-season (non-)preparation, fine with the lack of practice for both defending or attacking at corners, fine with the Mirallas incident, fine about HowardÂ’s loss of form and fine with anything that might call for a minimum of managerial acumen.

In short, his players can do no wrong. He is in awe of them. Just as he was at Wigan. And we all know what that led to, donÂ’t we?