Roberto Martinez's prolonged hard-luck story doing Everton no favours

The directors new and old cannot be so cut off they do not see what is happening to Our club. They must act, at worst end of season but preferably NOW to give the supporters something to cheer about.

It seems like Martinez and Moyes split a coaching brain between them. Moyes instilled hard work, discipline and defending a lead into his players. But nothing else. Once Moyes left for Utd appointing Martinez was almost like a knee jerk reaction. He has the other half of the coaching brain that instills flair and attacking prowess but nothing else. Neither coach has the ability to add what was in the other half of the brain to their locker. (It's interesting to see that Newcastle are apparently in talks with Moyes as they are exactly in the kind of mess that requires his half of the brain.)

As you rightly say Matt, Martinez doesn't have it in him to acknowledge that he is getting it badly wrong. But it has now gotten to the stage that he cannot also see that everybody can see through his spin and 'positivity'. He cannot see that the media and the fans have turned against him and that is the scariest thing for me.

What is even worse than Martinez's continuing hard luck stories is the fact that even now some people support them and him.

The continual "if" we had done this and "if" we had done that is, in my opinion, worse than Martinez's bleatings.

We are dealing in small margins. If we had done this we would be 8 points better off etc etc etc.

The excuses by Martinez and his – thankfully – dwindling bunch of supporters is embarrassing.

Let's get this season over and done with and more importantly let's get this imposter over and done with.

Contrast with Leicester, where the mentality is 'we really want to win this so we're going to work ourselves into the ground to deny the opposition because that's the only way'.

But how many games have Everton lost this season at home despite scoring at least two goals??

Over the last two years we have even managed to lose twice at home when scoring THREE.. (Chelsea 3-6 and Stoke 3-4)

I can never remember us just simply frittering away so many winnable positions at Goodison Park and conceding so many goals, we have conceded 26 goals already... TWENTY SIX!!!

And our next visitors in the league are old bogey side who regularly cut us up with ease... Arsenal.

But really the league is utterly pointless now.
It's nothing more than a get fit training exercise for next season and the Euro's for the lads involved.

Martinez will bull jargon us that there's still blah blah blah many points to play for in the league yet Evertonians with half a bit of knowledge of football know at best this team will get 10 or 12 more points at the very best.

The manager has dished out excuses for failure now for the best part of 18 month's and it's beginning to wear thinner and thinner.

The FA Cup is his last saving grace, lose to Chelsea then you are looking at a season again over by the early part of March.

Some players like McCarthy, Barry, and Besic have the natural instinct to press whilst Barkley is simply clueless in this respect. Imagine how brilliant we would be if all our players knew how and when to press. We would then be unplayable. The trouble with Martinez is that he just doesn't get that side of the game, preferring to heap praise on the individual attacking aspect which detracts from the team winning mentality.

Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City all win titles because apart from anything else, they know how to press as a team. We just don't do that consistently and he doesn't get it. The likes of West Ham, Stoke etc all seem to get it. Is Martinez likely to get the lightbulb moment? Sadly no and that's why we will eventually have to replace him.

All because he took Lennon off!!

Amazing how taking off a forward can make your defenders forget how to defend.

You will not coach that side of the game into players.

Barkley for instance has ability but he's not really a heart on the sleeve type like a Tim Cahill or the kind like Aaron Lennon who will run himself into the ground for you, Ross Barkley is basically a luxury player, a Rolls Royce.

Niasse, well it's too early to judge the lad but as we already knew, when you sign players from abroad especially in weaker league's they don't know how the Premier League is played until they set foot on to that pitch and Saturday afternoon was break neck tempo.

We needed lads out there that were willing to run and run for that last 10 minutes, we didn't need any passengers and sadly that's what Niasse was, his control was sloppy and he looked extremely sluggish in his movement, frankly it could have been Arouna Kone out there.

It was a poor choice by Martinez to throw the lad into that melee.

Wigan played the same way, and managed to put a few games together to win a cup, and in previous seasons they managed to stay up. The media loved their gung-ho approach, but like Blackpool a few seasons ago, their luck ran out and they went down.

Roberto is obstinate and refuses to take responsibility for these errors and he should now be sacked. We show no signs of improvement in our game management. Last season, it was the curse of the Europa League that was his excuse, and this season it is bad luck and poor refereeing that has cost us.

Despite some enterprising football on the attack, defensively we continue to fail miserably, whatever the selection. This points to the system and the whole mentality. It does not work and we are paying the price.I suspect that we have some very frustrated players out there, who are biting their tongues .

Time to say adios Roberto.

Martinez needs to go now so that we can get a new manager in before the end of the season. This will give him time so work with the players before the transfer window opens and highlight who he needs to replace and who just needs a bit of retraining in the art of defending.

There was also the Cup collapse in the last 20 minutes at Arsenal in Martinez first season, from 1-1 on 68 minutes to eventually losing 4-1.

And of course the Anfield 4-0 derby that could have been 8, 9 or 10 if they hadn't orbited a penalty to make it 5-0 with more than half an hour left!..

When it all boils down to it, the cracks started appearing in the second half of that first season, yes we had a 7 match winning run but it was clearly a false dawn.

You have pretty much nailed on the head all of the continuing flaws in the make up of Martinez, and why he will NEVER cut the mustard as a top flight manager.

In fact, you are being rather TOO kind to him in my opinion, he really doesn't deserve the respect your paying him. His 'can't change/won't change' style will eventually bring his tenure at Everton to an end.

If we lose to Chelsea on Saturday, we must stop this nonsense now. It's only the promise of FA Cup glory that is keeping him in a job.

I'm more concerned about the damage it's doing to our younger better players at the present time. They may be overpaid in many peoples eyes, but they will be able to still spot a 'phoney' from a mile away.

Would you honestly want to play for a manager with such characteristics as Martinez? Or would you put your future in his hands?

Finally, to all the Ross Barkley critics who want to see him 'chase back or close down', he's not the complete player yet, and maybe never will be, but he's a player of immense quality who produces things for Everton that no-one else in the squad can do.

If he ever becomes available for transfer, watch the so called top clubs queing up round the block for him, don't think they will be too concerned about his ability to 'track back or throw himself in front of somebody' to block a shot.

Everton's record this season given that the game was ended on 78 minutes would be won 10 drawn 11 lost 7 pts 41 scored 40 conceded 28. Just one win more than we have in the real world, but we would have seen 22 fewer goals in Everton games with an equal split of goals scored and conceded.

At the top of the table, Leicester would be level on points with Arsenal (52) with Spurs in third with a point less than the leaders and Manchester United (49) a further two points behind in fourth. Everton would be in 9th place one point behind Chelsea (42) and West Ham, two points behind our neighbours (43) in sixth place with Manchester City in fifth place on 45 points.

At the bottom of the table Norwich City (25) would be three points adrift of Newcastle (28) who lie fourth from bottom, whilst Aston Villa (21) would be 3 points better off than last placed Sunderland (18)

It does look like he is running out of time and unless he defeats Chelsea and gets favourable results in the remaining fixtures (Liverpool & Man Utd away included), the writing looks to be on the wall.

So, if he goes who do we bring in? Who do we trust with the future of our club? If we do replace Martinez, we will really need to make a statement and bring in an established manager with authority who actually knows what it takes to build a winning team, with a winning mentality.

I think Gus Hiddink would certainly be in the hat. A few dreamers would throw in Mourinho. But in reality, who else is out there to bring in and make a statement?

Saturday's game could turn out to be a good result for Everton as it must surely put RM one step closer to the door marked exit. In six seasons in the Premier league, RM has one top half finish – his first season with us with what was still basically DM's team. His record is 16, 16, 15, 18, 5, 11. This season will probably be bottom half again.

Some might say you wouldn't expect Wigan to finish higher but both Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce finished higher than RM. Jewell managed 10th (and a League Cup final) and Bruce 11th and 14th. In seven years he hasn't learned the lesson that he needs to tighten up defensively so, sadly, for him and EFC, I doubt he ever will.

There is a fine line between being principled and being stubborn. Like RM, there's no defence, he has to go. Look where Leicester are with a good manager. Imagine if we had one?

I'm shitting myself more when we are 2-0 up and playing well moreso than if we are 1-0 down with 10 mins left. This bloke has got me despising my own team...

I don't feel like that any longer and I can't realistically say that it's:

Tim Howard's fault for being terrified to step away from the line;

Phil Jagielka's fault for being a gentleman centre-half;

John Stones's fault for showboating his silky skills inside our penalty area;

Ross Barkley's fault for not tracking back as much as Alan Ball would have done;

Gerard Deulofeu's fault for throwing a hissy when he gets upended;
Kevin Mirallas's fault for getting carried away trying to prove he deserves a start every week;

Gareth Barry's fault for "taking another yellow for the team";

Muhammad Besic's fault for tackling like a tiger in the "non contact Premier League"

Leon Osman's fault for not being lightening fast and/or built like a brick shithouse;

Romelu Lukaku's fault for missing the odd chance;

It's NOT their fault, or any of their teammates' fault. It's Roberto Martinez and his backroom teams fault. The complete and utter lack of discipline flows throughout all of the above issues.

Over and Over.
Over and Over.
Over and Over.
Over and Over.
Over and Over.
Over and Over.

There is an extremely simple principle in psycho-therapeutic healing:

"When what you keep doing keeps failing, then try another way".

So, either YOU apply this Roberto, OR, YOU apply this Bill.

Because, as a dedicated fan, I have tried being patient, but now I will do that no longer......

Presume Kenwright is still too ill to make the journey from London?

The games that have been close that have resulted in us dropping points are being held up as some sort of proof that Martinez simply doesn't know what he's doing but I don't think that is entirely fair.

Take Bournemouth (for me, the closest example of this being Martinez's "fault" – we score after 4 mins injury time has elapsed and they score with 8 mins gone – what exactly is Martinez's fault about that? We can assume he's not telling them to concede and I do not think that 94-98 minutes is where a manager can make tactical changes to protect the lead – we were away and got suckered – it happens.

The 3-3 at Chelsea – we know Terry was a mile offside, anyone trying to blame Martinez for that needs to rest a while. If the flag goes up, we're celebrating the tactical genius of Martinez taking 3 points from the Bridge.

West Ham – Mirallas gets sent off after 35 minutes and regardless of how you 'manage the game', the team with 10 men is going to be knackered in the last 10 minutes – having watched the game, a bit of player discipline was needed – and please don't tell me that's up to Martinez because at 77 mins and 2-0 up, all footballers know what they have to do. Blame for this defeat (if you're the kind of person who needs a scapegoat for every little thing) goes to Mirallas for being a tool and diving in when on a yellow.

I could go on, but I don't need to – in summary, collecting this bag of coincidences up and labelling them as errors by the manager simply doesn't stack up. Football is a game of so many influences that unless you're losing every single game by a stack of goals, having away with the manager is only half the issue – see Swansea for details.

For my money, we are just a hair's breadth away from a very special team/squad and Martinez should be given the summer and the start of next season to address the issues that have come up this season.

Or we get shot of him at the end of the season and *hope* the next one is better... Didn't we do that with Moyes though?

Saturday was a gut wrenching result but as we all know just one of too many this season.

It wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to fire RM right now and only for the fact that they are still in the Cup I believe it could well have happened by now.
If they exit the Cup on Saturday then there wouldn't be a point in keeping RM on.

Would be better to see out the season with Big Dunc. and spend time canvassing for a solid replacement so he could work with the players during the off season in readiness for the next campaign.

The more I look at the tenure of Roberto, the more I think he has no inclination to change the way we play and neither will he blame his players. Obviously if we as workers had a boss like Roberto we would be delighted because we wouldn't be under the microscope and we have a ready made excuse for any of our own failings.

Ultimately, we all want Everton to win football matches in a particular style, we have the style but we lack most of the other important ingredients which make up a consistent winning team – that is the manager and staff's problem they have to find a solution before it's too late for them.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/07/Roberto-Martinez-brendan-rodgers-pep-guardiola-Everton-liverpool?CMP=twt_gu

In all of the matches you've mentioned we'd held a commanding 2-goal advantage, as we did against Man City in the semi-final... We also conceded 2 goals in the last 10 minutes at home to Stoke, another 3 points dropped...

Don't really understand your Moyes comment?

All we can hope for is that come the summer the powers that be, i.e. the man with the money decides that RM is not the man to spend it, even though if there is a job as scout Bobby would be the man as he can spot a player it is just a pity he doesn't know what to do with them when he has them.

I have been pro RM but now I can't defend him anymore this last game has been his final nail as far as I'm concerned, he just has not got a clue how to see a game out. To concede the lead on 1 occasion can be deemed unlucky even twice but when it starts being a regular thing then something needs to done. Add these results to the others mentioned in the article then we are truly in a sorry state of affairs. We would be 4th or above with a decent manager. My only consolation is that there are 3 worse teams than Everton this season.

Steve he's 22 years of age and if he carries on playing like he does, he will never be a complete player. I accept he is getting coached wrongly by Martinez, this part of his game should have been well coached into by now.

Yes, if he goes he will go for a lot of money, think how much he would go for if he put tackling and closing down into his game, basic parts of being a footballer, he is getting an easy ride off Martinez who is doing him no favours.

I understand he might be still affected by his bad injury of four years ago, try and get him sorted out mentally. I know everyone is different but Bryan Robson broke his leg THREE times when he was a young player at WBA, and came back each time and got on with it.

Steve, I understand you sticking up for Ross but you are not helping him by turning a blind eye to his huge failings as a defensive player, it's a big part of being a player, I have never seen a player who does less in this part of the game. You could mention Sheedy but even Kevin had a nuisance value in this respect, Ross has just got to change or he will never become the player he can be.

No matter what the result or the performance, it's never his fault.

The man shows no humility only arrogance and a well honed ability to avoid any questions that may involve self critisism.

No way do we want Big Dunc or any of Robbies backroom staff taking over, not even to the end of the season they are all part of the problem. They should all be shown the door at the end of the season, and bring someone like Frank de Boer in.

De Boer brings young talent through, he was a world class defender and would sort that side out. His backroom staff at Ajax include Dennis Bergkamp I am sure they could get us fired up.

It is no use changing now we would not get anyone of note in, not that any of this matters as he will still be manager come next season..

Somebody used the phrase "Baghdad Bob" to refer to Roberto, in an article I was reading earlier, a reference to the former media spokesman for Iraq who insisted that all was well and going to plan despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Perhaps some Evertonians will decide to have a pack of playing cards made with those pictures of the back-room staff – I have no doubt who would make the Ace of Spades!

I always regarded him as a sloppy appointment as any Pie Eater could have told Uncle Bill what to expect.... bullshit, philosophies and disappointments.

Sure they rejoiced in winning the FA Cup but that was nothing as to the ignominy of relegation. And, I am very reliably assured, Grandad Dave couldn't wait to unload the Catalan on his bessy mate!

So, even as we debate Roberto's future, we are all entitled to hope that some top football brains are being retained to identify the very best man – at home or abroad – capable of being an outstanding manager of our great club.

Forget Moyes, Stubbs, Hughes and Howe... this job is too big for them and their ilk, this is New Everton where, just for once, they will do things properly!

With the extra TV finances coming in, any good offers coming in for these players will most probably see them not hesitate for a move.

It is not only the past season and this one that the Manager has ruined it is the future of the club that is in jeopardy.

Although the manager has to take full responsibility and take the criticism of what is happening, he should be taking a close look at his coaching staff (who the majority he has had with him at Wigan and some at Swansea) and evaluate them in performance and not as confidants. A one-man band is no way to run a team.

I walked out when the third goal went in, I was in the gents in the Park End and men were squaring up to each other – that's how bad things are. I was made up when Roberto got the job; he was my choice, and I have tried to back him but no more.

Everything is down to somebody else – never his fault, just man up and admit the job is to big for you.

I pray he won't be, but after all, this is Everton.

I'm not 'sticking up' for Ross at all, but he certainly doesn't deserve the vitriol I've heard thrown his way at games all last season and most of this, that should be reserved for our hapless manager.

By the way, Kevin Sheedy could'nt tackle for his life, Bracewell and Reid did that part for him, perhaps you prefer a plodder like McCarthy, also I don't recall Le Tissier tackling anybody over 15 year period at Southampton?

Totally and utterly fed up with this guy in charge. A poor start to next season will see us doing a Villa. Any team that can collapse in such a manner time and time again can never consider itself to be anything other than cannon fodder.

Martinez has reduced us to little more than easy meat for genuine challengers. Please put him out of his misery before he takes us down next year and don't give him the opportunity to put a sticking plaster of the FA Cup over the gaping wound that is our Goodison record.

And you are right he doesn't deserve vitriol but Steve to be honest it's mostly exasperation that is thrown at Ross, wouldn't mind betting you've had a go yourself without going overboard.

I did say that Kevin Sheedy couldn't tackle but he did attempt to stop a man or hold his progress up, Barkley does neither, I think McCarthy is more than a plodder and although not as good as Peter Reid ( who was ) he plays just as an important part as Barkley, I think I have got your age right and you saw the 1963 team, Dennie Stevens role was as vital as any other of the players, and no he wasn't as good to watch but still essential to the team.

Steve, again I admire you for coming out and supporting Ross, he is very good, he can be, and hopefully will be a much better player, more importantly I hope it is with Everton.

Steve, the game has changed considerably since LeTissier was playing. In today's game, many teams play with ALL of their players pressing. Barcelona recent past and present are a great example. Have you ever watched TALENTED players like Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Suarez, and noticed what a tremendous defensive shift they put in.

This is a winning style of play and a winning mentality from winning coaches, such as Klopp, Pochettino and even Brenda. Brenda had the very talented Balotelli but he was jettisoned because his work rate was close to nil.

Teams today need ALL ten outfield players pressing and working hard for each other, eight or nine will not cut it. Tottenham may will win the league this year because at long last they have got some balls.

The decision to allow the experienced Frenchman to leave the club last summer still felt right, age can quickly catch-up on you, but it begs the question; have Everton found an adequate replacement?

It would seem that Phil Kirkbride's view is correct, particularly when Everton allowed West Ham to cross the ball 35 times into our box.

By the way, if anyone watches the U21s tonight on BT Sport you will see a clone of Ross's, Keiron Dowell, he is great with the ball could be a lot better off it. Then again, he might have changed since I last saw him three months ago.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/premier-league---merseyside-dream-seller--Martinez-in-danger-of-being-the-architecht-to-his-own-downfall-122143632.html

It looks like some sections of the media are finally waking up to the problems we have at Goodison with Martinez and the fantasy world he inhabits.

We need to strengthen our defence. Christ, it's like a sieve at the moment. We cannot defend high balls coming into the box, so a battle hardened central defender is much needed, and a decent goalkeeper who is not afraid to command his box.

Hopefully with the new investment we can persuade Lukaku & Co to give us at least another season to improve on things, and to bring in some quality players. There is only one problem – Martinez. The guy I feel will never change his philosophy, and is dragging our great club down.

Maybe our new co-owner will also see this and get rid, but if that happens, it needs to happen before the summer. We must be able to bring in a manager asap so that we can plan over the summer period.

If we get beaten by Chelsea at the weekend, will Martinez go?

It characterizes the whole philosophy behind the manager and it's inherent flaws. Martinez in his own words describes teams who seek to nullify an opposing teams attacking prowess as parasitic.

Surely a more coherent strategy and one practiced by even his mentor Guardiola, is a combination of both attacking flair and preventing an opponents team from punishing you.

COYB and FORM!

Leaving aside personalities, I've thought all season that the problem is not so much the defence as the defending. Every player has a part to play in this aspect of the game and Lennon epitomized that on Saturday.

The idea of coaching the defenders in glorious isolation went out years ago but the entire concept seems to have been rejected in Roberto's Dream World.

Perhaps a couple of sessions on 'set pieces with Pulis' ought to be commissioned post haste!

Sorry to be a stuck record but Barkley plays better at No.10 as part of a front three. The last two games he has been back to part of a middle three due to illnesses of Cleverley and Barry. Against Villa it didn't really matter but on Saturday with a man down, inexplicable substitutions we got found out....... again!

I thought he put a real shift in on Saturday but like most, other than McCarthy, he ran out of steam. He is not a natural defender and by playing him in that role we are less robust and you get less from him in an attacking sense.

Assuming Barry returns and one of Cleverley or Besic plays I think you will see him return there on Saturday.

Saturday was a sickener, but it is easy to knee jerk. I see for many Funes Mori has gone from world beater to write off in 12 minutes. However it is not knee jerking to question the ethos and tactics of this manager. He won't be going anywhere before the end of the summer but a poor end to the season could well see changes.

The problem besides the coaching aspect is that, a) Martinez has a system that can take the lead, no doubt. But it appears, b) he doesn't have a system to protect one. Or if he does it reverts back to point A. Maybe based on keeping possession and/or out scoring the opposition. If that is true he either has to change or be sacked.

At times it feels like we are a footballing experiment. An experiment that has repeatedly been tested and failed. Isn't it about time we appointed someone who's track record and methods demonstrates success consistently?

Of course we could do better to stop the crosses in the first place, and that responsibility is shared by the whole team bar Lukaku. At home with 10 men, we played so open, and somehow got a second goal. We then continued to play the same way and it could be argued that the manager got it right and we would have won the game had Lukaku been a little less complacent on the penalty, or if he had prodded in his one-on-one with Adrian.

However, it is what happened after the penalty miss that summed-up the manager's short-comings. It has already been examined by all above and it is exasperating that we all have to endure this Groundhog Day moment with such regularity. I am beyond sick of it, and now expect us to grab defeat from the jaws of victory in every game.

We will soon meet a rejuvenated Chelsea, at home, where most of our calamities have occurred. I really can't see us winning it, as I feel that the players have lost faith in Martinez, and some of them have made their minds up that they will either be off in the summer, or a new man will be at the helm, with new funds to build anew.

To me when you play football it just comes natural to get stuck in when your team is under pressure, you know the saying Graham, old but true, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." Come on, Ross, tackling won't hurt you, it's all in your head.

We are just a better Wigan, no more no less. Good job there are several worse teams than us this season. Without Lukaku's goals we would be in the mix for relegation this season.

What the hell have they been putting in the ale in the Freshy Rich?

You are starting to make sense old buddy.

How can you say that we are not getting the best out of him, he has scored more goals than any player 22 and under and created more goals than any player 22 and under in The Premier League.

Not sure what else people want.

At half time when Andy Carrol came on, was I the only one who thought, "there's gonna be plenty of crosses to deal with second half"....no, of course I wasn't, but apparently it was only me, all of you and everyone inside Goodison Park, apart from Blinkers Bob who just stood there arms folded while they pumped the ball into our box over & over again.

It's so simple - the man just doesn't care what the opposition has planned, he just carries on regardless. I almost think it's pre-planned on his part, that he's going to do one thing no matter how the games pan out and be damned if it all goes south.

In some ways you have to admire him for it but I agree now, 3 years is enough - he hasn't got it sorted so end of the season I would have him clear his desk.

Perhaps if Barkley (or Lukaku or whoever) continues to play as such under, say, SAF, then I might agree. For now, it is all rm, because he controls everything and ships anyone who disagrees out immediately.

Not wishing to defend Roberto, but what the hell is the gobshite linesman doing? He's standing on the goal line. He can give offside if a players knob is in an offside position but he can't see that the goalie is two yards off his line before Rom strikes the ball!

Salt in a gaping wound.

Simon, I think that we CAN say that Martinez won't get the best out of Ross while he plays him in different roles in different games. Find his best position and play him there. Like you, I want him picking the ball up and running at people, some through balls he has played for Rom are breathtaking; let's get him in a position to do that every week.

OK, a guy with a frame as big as him wont be tearing about the pitch like Lennon will but he should be able to tackle back some of the time .

Didn't realise West Ham had put 35 crosses into our box. If someone was to direct that stat to Roberto he would say that we defended 32 of them magnificently.

We have some great quality going forwards but we are abysmal at defending. This season already feels gone to me and is such a missed opportunity.

My assessment of Ross Barkley is that he is capable and produces, wonderful skills and shows great perception in his passing. I'm not blaming him here for what happened on Saturday, nor Rom for his penalty shot (well, I'd love to have seen him just belt it!)

The weakness that Ross has in my view, is his total lack of awareness about defending. Ian Rush scored buundles of goals but another major aspect of his play was his chasing any player down, who had the ball in the opposition half.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that the lad has strengths and weaknesses, as all players do. In my view he is a "luxury player" and ought to be recognised as such until and if, he can master the defensive side of his duties.

What I'm trying to say is I am not being critical or blaming Ross for his part in Saturday's defeat. I am saying that leaving him for the last half hour or so was a poor decision by Martinez (one of several which made it a lot easier for West Ham to get back in the game and then go on top win it.)

Once we were down to ten men, tiredness was almost certainly a factor but I thought we were putting up a great show. Once we'd gone 2 goals up, we were still mostly controlling the game but I think the last half hour was where we ought to have been "shutting up shop"

Taking Lennon off was, I thought, leaving a great gap down the left which West Ham fully capitalised on. Unless he was dying on his feet, the mere fact that he was on the pitch made WH very wary of attacking down that flank, in case he did them again. Not only that, his tracking back was giving their players very little time on the ball

Any bunch of us, in the pub, going home by train, driving home or whatever, if a few of us together would probably have had views on who we would have brought on as subs and why. Besic and Barry, would have been my first two (Barry for Barkley)

I think we all (or most of have a certain amount of agreement on what we Woludn't have done. And that was bring the new lad on in a "all hands to the pumps" situation.

So the thoughts I had, going home (as well as total despair!) was that we can look at the various strengths, mistakes, total crazy (Mirallas) actions that players did during the match. But all in all, I was proud of our players foir the way they fought, produced exciting football, made West Ham look like a bunch of strugglers for 3/4s of the game.

I thought they were let down, not so much by individuals, but by not having the weapons to complete the job.

That, in my view, was when I thought that as much as I like Roberto Martinez and as much as I appreciate the ghood things he's brought to EFC, he is not likely to ever be able to complete the job.

I certainly think he is on borrowed time now. If Kenwright had still been in charge I could not see the Manager being sacked until at least another season had gone by (unless the crowd were almost rioting in the streets!)

But we now have a new man in charge (assuming/hoping, the P/L ratify his shareholding this week.) I think he has only come into the club after very closely monitoring all aspects of EFC.

Although Kenwright is still Chairman, I think Mr Moshiri will be the man who amkes the decisions. I don't know if Roberto Martinez will last the season out; but my thoughts are that he will.

What I do think, is that Mr Moshiri will be laying out expectations and setting targets for all the coaching staff, the crporate wotsit staff, in fact the whole structure of the the club.

I think that as soon as he hgas his shares ratified, he will interview the Manager, and he will be ready to take action at the end of the season.

I don't see David Moyes as a likely candidate, nor the lad from Bournemouth, as much as I like his style. If he is going to change managers, I think he will go for the very best that is available.

If we want to keep our top players and recruit more, then we have to offer them a realistic vision of success.

We are starved of it, there is an opportuntity to reach for it, but sadly, I don't think we are going to achieve it with Roberto.

I liked the definition of luck from one commentator. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. We all know how and where we are conceding goals so how come Roberto on his £3M+ pa salary does not?

Without making any generalist comments, let me be very specific about whatever you said.

Bournemouth game: You blame the result on the 2 goals traded deep in injury time, we would like to blame the result on the 2 goal lead squandered in the last 10 mins.

Chelsea: You blame the result on Terry being offside, we would like to blame the result on the 2 goal lead squandered in the last 25 mins.

West Ham: You blame the result on 10 men obviously getting knackered by 3 goals in the last 10 mins, then obviously we wonder how we weren't able to knacker 11 man West Brom even once for 90 minutes, including the last 10 mins.

And you're absolutely right in saying that you could go on, but you don't need to.

The players are demoralised, the fans mystified and bordering on revolt, rumours abound about players falling out with RM.

Everyone can see the defensive failings and unfitness of the team apart from the one who matters most. He has to go now, as I feel next season he will Wigan us, as everybody knows our failings.

And this philosophy stuff isn't a substitute for that; he is becoming the Malcolm Allison of his generation. Great ideas but useless without the hard nosed experience of a Joe Mercer next to him.

Lennon looks fully fit, and when the crowd are with you like that, I expect you don't want to be substituted... but no, Bobby took him off and God knows what instructions Niasse was given because he looked like he had no compass at all.

Returning to the thrust of the article: Yes, Martinez and his post-match verbal gymnastics have worn thin, it's just embarrassing now and I would sooner see him out the door with his bib & balls men now than wait until the season end.

The cost of this will be a moot point when the takeover is completed. A shame, because I think RM will be a very good manager one day, but not in England, where the physicality is as important as the technical / tactical aspects.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/650674/Roberto-Martinez-facing-Everton-sack-results-improve

Moshiri's and his assistants are probably researching 'everything' Everton so I'm at ease knowing that they have probably been on ToffeeWeb as well as other sites.

So why would a very intelligent, successful businessman waste time on a manager who hasn't grown in 7 years or another unimpressive up and comer. Expect Moshiri to make a rather large statement of intent. Why else would he leave Arsenal?

Either Martinez grows as a manager or goes as a manager! Here's hoping for a big name boss to take us forward and inspire our best players to stay.

BBC Sport, Football gossip.

Yesssssssssssssssss!

Just our luck! Another bad refereeing decision led us to miss the penalty which led to us losing. Surprised RM hasn't used that excuse thus far!

Ironically we probably would have won but for that.

"I think Martinez in his interviews is becoming a joke and an embarrassment," Sutton said on BBC Radio 5Live.

"After every game he blames everybody, everybody other than himself.

"Whatever you say about Mirallas at the weekend, he deserved to go off. What is the argument?

"He blames everybody, but ultimately he has to sort his team out defensively.

"Have they underachieved this year? Absolutely."

Related articles
Newcastle rocked as David Moyes opens up on potential job opportunity
Roberto Martinez facing Everton sack if results don't improve – Just read this, great, more fuel to the fire!!!

I wish I was back in Scotland when I could watch "only an excuse" a sports based satirical comical TV programme, they'd have a field day with Roberto.

“We've grown as a team, we've shown we can score goals and defend really really well, but then we go into periods where we can't really defend and we get hurt too easy and concede goals that affect scorelines with extreme ease.

“I felt the last six games we'd found a really consistent level of performance in different competitions, keeping very good clean sheets.

“On Saturday, to be so good for 78 minutes, half of which was with 10 men, and then concede three goals in 12 minutes, it makes no sense.”

It makes perfect sense to the rest of us!!

I think he's brought in some really good players and improved some existing players abilities. And I love our style of play, but only when the time is right.

The West Ham game was the turning point for me, I can't defend him anymore. 2-0 up and cruising along, and you couldn't even tell we were down to 10 men. Then he makes the strangest substitutions and it all goes wrong.

It kills me to say it because as I said I've always supported him since he arrived, but sadly I can't anymore.

Someone needs to come in and keep this talented squad together and get the best out of them, cos I think they could really achieve something special.

I have to admit that I rated Lukaku highly when he was at Chelsea, when he was young. I could see he was not ready, but now he has performed really well at Everton. And definitely he will bring something to the United side because he is strong, he has got that presence to trouble the central defenders. With someone like Lukaku on United's side, especially his presence around the box, along with [Anthony] Martial playing on the left and [Wayne] Rooney also linking with Lukaku, it will be great.

Notice the last part of the last sentence "It will be great" and not it 'Would be great'

"If you had to pick one team in the Premier League most likely to turn a two-goal advantage into a defeat inside just 12 minutes, you'd pick Everton every time. Every time. Roberto Martinez's side are young, exciting and bold, but there seems to be no scenario so secure that they can't find a way to mess up. You wouldn't trust them to make a salad for fear that they'd somehow burn the kitchen down. It's so frustrating even for the neutral because there's no question that this team should be trying to push for the top four. Instead, they're just trying our patience."

Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into it.

That is another reason why the owner(s) need to act quickly and decisively. Waiting does RM himself absolutely no favours at all and can only lead to bitterness and deterioration of goodwill all round.

I fully appreciate what you say but seriously do any of us honestly believe that Lukaku will be an Everton player at the start of next season? Add this albeit flimsy evidence to the chase for another striker which has surfaced in the last 24 hours and I start to think that the die has been caste regarding the future of Rom.

Whether Stones stays is open to question too. Only Everton could get a new investor and still lose some of the better players in the squad, mind you the Premier League seem to be taking their time in rubber-stamping that deal too. Oh well... at least we'll have to pay 5% less for our season tickets!

Let's face it, he's unlikely to play in the CL with us, and even if we do get into it I can't see it for several years yet – if at all given the money and strength coming into so many teams in the league now.

We could well see Leicester City and West Ham Utd in the CL next year so you never know – what's the betting on Mirallas going to West Ham since being linked all those times?

I always thought it likely we would lose our stars it has become an inevitable fact of life but with Bill finally getting in new money added to the increased TV deal, I thought we may have a chance of hanging on to the young talent for another season. However, we are such a bit part player in the new age that now even with money we are still resigned to losing football games and losing our best players why on earth do any of us bother?

We can start celebrating next season when we once again retain our Premier League status as we wait for our newest expensive striker to bed in as he fails to reach double figures and the new expensive goalkeeper to settle down following so many errors which have cost us points.

Aston Villa and Everton have so much in common it's untrue.

Now any other coach would've reacted to this, but not our Bobby; so what would 99.99% of coaches have done, 2-0 up a man down and 15 minutes to go. How about take Lennon off and put Baines on behind Ovideo, and/or take Barkley off and put Barry or Osman on with the instruction STOP THE CROSSES.

What does our 'genius' do? replaces our MOTM midfielder with a half-fit striker who's new to the English game.I must admit, it's got novelty value, as is his 'innovative' attitude toward set pieces, which he doesn't think is worthy of even discussing let alone practising them.

More and more Bobby is sounding like a little boy in the hard-nosed cynical, pragmatic world. Unable to stoop to running the clock down or packing the midfield or defence to gain the point or points. Instead we have this purist who would rather lose rather than win the wrong way. Please Bobby go now and try to find Utopia somewhere else.

Lukaku is a different kettle of fish altogether. Lose him and we are bottom half next season for certain. And I'm hearing Ciasse is already looking 'a pig in a poke' !

Mirallas will be a gonner – hooray, say some – and Deulofeu can't be too enamoured of Roberto. Good job Ross will stay loyal, though, ain't it ?

There's absolutely an argument for chairmen, owners, board members, shareholders to be 'happy' by purely being in the Premier League nowadays - a stark reality of modern football is that winning things only really matters to supporters given how much money you get just for being in the Premier League now.

So in answer to your question - do they care? We bother because it's ingrained in us to bother or care - this is exactly the reason why FIFA have made football such a money-spinner. Because no other sport captures so many people from a young age like football does, and they know we have our lives invested in it.

All they have invested in it is money.

Apart from that, we should have 10 to 15 more points than we have, and it is the manager's fault. The problems have been there for all to see and not addressed. And his substitution of Lennon on Saturday put the bloody tin lid on it.

We have to hope that we beat Chelsea on Saturday. But if we don't, he should be on a very definite yellow card.

My biggest concern under Martinez is our work ethic. Players are being carried in certain matches. Midfield is too light, no workers and our pace is too slow. This placing more pressure on the defence. Managers place more emphasis on the work rate and putting in a shift. Moyes demanded it and it showed in our fitness levels. Winning the battle first is essential in football.

Martinez has been a manager in the premiership for Severn years. How lucky you are with your record. You must change your methods or being a pundit will be your next job. Sadly, I believe a new manager is required.

There is a small head of steam blowing up here.

We've seen Martinez can put his foot down as he did in the Stones/Chelsea episode and I would imagine that if he was replaced then any incoming manager would not release players unless he was sure of bringing in tried players he had previously managed.

We really do have to coach those areas where we have problems just to play on a level pitch.

Mark, what took them so long? Are they starting to hear rumors from their own agents? If that's the case, Moshiri needs to act sooner rather than later.

If that were to be the case, we would need a firefighter manager to come to our rescue. I sense that the investment may not be what we all had hoped it would be and the Everton way of doing things will continue at least for the next six months or so. The sense of optimism that briefly overtook me a week last Saturday has already disappeared, such is life as an Evertonian.

Don't tell me there's no point, as nothing will happen etc... that's crap. Maybe not a fairy Godmother with 3 wishes etc. but if the fans show their displeasure then maybe his royal highness might start feeling the pressure. So, time for creativity – time for action.

Season Tickets, late arrival to match, tennis balls, grim reaper, turn the backs to pitch, NSNO posters, sit down in front of GP until 15 mins after next home game >> What will you do about i? Get creative, get active.... No venom, but find ways to make yourselves heard..

Where have you been?

It is being reported on BBC gossip that NBC are running an article on Everton fans frustration with Martinez and that they want him gone.

The media are finally getting it so hopefully are the board.

Then again, I would wait till Moshiri's investment gets rejected by the EPL before I start to lose hope. I cannot see anyone buying into a sinking ship and not do anything. We are sinking, the big hole is called rm. Get rid of him and we'll be fine because even the likes of Allardyce can do much better than him, and I'm sure we'll get someone with a much better resume than those 3. I'm not sure how much Koeman is on but I remember we're giving rm a salary way higher than most in Europe.

Farhad Moshiri's purchase of a 49.9% stake in Everton has been ratified by the Premier League.

Moshiri will be spending money for any number of things related to the team. Do you think he would trust a man who have failed to deliver to make those decisions for him?

On, RM, what can I say. He needs to go but there are no internal rumblings whatsoever. I think that BK is proud of his record of not sacking people and a bit egotistical about his selections being proved right. In this respect he is similar to and as stubborn as RM and it may take monumental consequences to shift Robbie.

Martinez has to go! Now!

I can't even be bothered with the whys! It just annoys me that we haven't sacked him yet!

We need a manager who has won things, who hates losing and sets high standards. A manager who can manage ego's and put fire into the players. My personal choice would be Bernd Schuster.

I find our current circumstances under Roberto quite fascinating. One because I watch every game a little bit more educated because of what I have learnt reading every single post.

I'm amazed at the loyalty of Martinez fans in the face of the stats of how we are becoming a up market version of Wigan

Dispute the views of the more football educated informed fans on here. My biggest worry is that the people who hired the manager who more than likely know fuck all about football keep him in charge.

The secret is to hire the right man with the right credentials:

Number one. Do not I repeat do not hire a British manager. They do not understand the technical side of the game.

Number two. Research thoroughly the record of the incoming manager.

Number three. Finally make sure they are successful.

I am sorry that it hasn't worked out for Martinez because his teams score lots of goals and he has an eye for a good player. Shame about the shortcomings.