Surely the pretence has to stop

Jim Hourigan 25/01/2016 66comments  |  Jump to last

Not withstanding the result on Wednesday, a match I think many of us are now viewing with fear and trepidation, surely the time has come to re-appraise the manager's position.

I have tried to be even-handed with Martinez, seeing better football under him than we have for several years, but the point has been reached, for me and many others I suspect, that our patience has just worn out. We are not a ‘sacking club’ and as fans we are far more patient than many, perhaps too patient, but we cannot continue as we are without fundamental change. That change must either be the way the manager trains, coaches and selects the team or we change him. By common consent we have as good a squad as many in the Premier League but our results tell a different story and that must be down to the manager, who for me has several fundamental flaws in the way he manages that he steadfastly refuses to acknowledge or address.

Firstly, he has managed in the Premier League for almost six years, during which time he has consistently been accused of playing good football but showing neither a desire nor an understanding of the need to defend. The arguments about whether it was Stones or Howard's fault yesterday deflect from two fundamental issues. If you want the back five to pass the ball around then the goalkeeper has to as comfortable with the ball at his feet as the rest. Howard never has and never will be comfortable with the ball anywhere near his feet, so why has this not been addressed either in training or by replacing him?

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Equally I doubt there is a coaching manual in the world that thinks playing out from the back involves the centre half receiving the ball in deep wide positions, thereby exposing the centre of the defence and trying to play out from there. Stones is without doubt one of the best footballing centre-halves around, but he is a poor defender because he spends far too much time being a ‘footballer’ not a ‘defender’. Martinez shows no desire or understanding that his first and foremost job is to help stop the ball going in our net, not starting attacks – that’s a bonus after his day job. The old adage runs true: ‘If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got’. So after six years of trying to play this way in the Premier League and it consistently failing, why does he think it will work now and why has he not got a competent specialist defensive coach on his staff?

Secondly, his rigid insistence on a system that a) involves giving at least one player carte blanche and assume little or no defensive responsibilities (Barkley); b) always playing with two wide men even if they are not natural wingers (Kone, Cleverley, Osman); c) only ever having one player ‘up top’; d) 2 holding midfield players irrespective of the opposition or the game situation. For someone lauded as a great tactician by the media, where is his flexibility and innovation? When over the last two years have we adopted something different to make the opposition sit back and think? The arrogant manner in which he stands alone by the touchline strikes me as of a man who has no truck with criticism and is not willing to listen to other views. It's his way or the highway. If you always do what you’ve always done...

Thirdly, his unwillingness to accept that in English football the set piece is a valuable weapon and cannot be ignored either defensively or in the attacking sense. It is no coincidence that we have scored the fewest number of goals from set pieces in the Premier League and even though Barry’s and Mori’s two recent strikes have improved that statistic, it is still reprehensible. Defensively, everyone’s heart goes in their mouths when the opposition get a corner or a free kick; put it on our goalie or hoist it into the middle and the team panic with the crowd. His stubborn refusal to accept this part of the game and plan accordingly is disgraceful.

Has anyone seen anything other than a shot when we get a free kick within 30 yards? Where is the innovation and guile? Where is something different from this master tactician? He appears so reluctant to consider the set piece as part and parcel of the English game that I wonder what he has been watching in his 20-odd years of English football.

Finally, his use of substitutes – or in many case his lack of use of them – is just as baffling. When he does use them there is one common theme: to continue playing the same way. I cannot think of a time when his substitution has been used to change our formation or the manner in which we play. Take the Chelsea game as an example: 2-0 up and he takes Lennon off and brings on Deulofeu to keep width and keep attacking. Had it been almost any other manager, Lennon would have been replaced with a more defensive-minded player but – surprise, surprise – he doesn’t see fit to put that type of player on the bench.

2-1 down at home yesterday and his final substitution is to swap right backs?! So we change personnel but continue playing the same way with no thought to adopting anything other than his original plan. Then there is his reluctance to use substitutes. Is there something in his rule book that says no changes before the 70th minute? When 35,000 can see someone is struggling in the first half why does he wait?

As I said at the start I have tried to be patient with him but it has run out, Martinez has to change or leave. Will he change? No, so for me will Bill Kenwright get rid of him...?

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Reader Comments (66)

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Darryl Ritchie
1 Posted 26/01/2016 at 07:37:17
Jim;

Nice article. In answer to your last line: Kenwright won't, maybe the next chairman will.

Dan McKie
2 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:26:17
Well said, Jim. I doubt you will find many that can disagree with anything you write here.

Martinez simply refuses to see any flaws in himself, and it is costing us big time. Even small changes in games would affect the opposition. Take Stones on Sunday for example, it was clear to see that Swansea attackers had targeted him and his insistence on playing out from the back. For me, all it would take would be for Stones to hit a few long, and hey presto the attackers would have to think twice about whether or not to expend early energy in chasing him down, but no, they always know there is a chance.

We are again in a position, and on a run of games where I am scratching our head wondering where our next win is going to come from, and even then knowing that it has been 10 months since we put back to back wins together, so it would likely be another false dawn. No doubt Martinez would still go over the top like he does after every win in the praise for his players (Lukaku best in Europe, Barry best English player ever etc.). Its little wonder we never win more than one game. One win and Martinez makes them think they've made it.

Paul Mackie
3 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:30:20
I have to say, I've reluctantly crossed over into the 'Martinez Out' camp after Saturday's dismal display. It was a microcosm of everything that's gone wrong since he took over. Defensive howlers, only playing for one half, complete lack of closing down, etc.

He's brought in some really good players that wouldn't have considered us otherwise (Deulofeu, Lukaku), but he's spectacularly failed to get the best out of them. Give him until the end of the season and then get rid. I've no idea who to replace him with, but then I'm not the chairman of EFC so it doesn't matter what I think anyway. I'm just a paying supporter who is sick of seeing a squad with bags of potential being wasted by a manager who can't work out how to defend.

Kevin Tully
4 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:34:28
I'd like to personally ask Martinez what the hell is he thinking by playing Howard through 18 months worth of poor performances? Is he trying to show he's completely loyal to his players? Is he scared of making a big decision?

I can't think of any other manager who would insist on persisting with a player who has constantly cost us points. I said in the summer he deserves all the shit coming his way if he didn't address the 'keeper situation at the club. It just seem so obvious it's becoming a running joke, and I believe it's affecting the whole team and the atmosphere. There were more ironic cheers on Sunday, it's like a fucking pantomime.

I can't get my head around the thought process around Howard's constant inclusion no matter what happens on the pitch. I hope Martinez is proud of his loyalty when he's managing in the Chamionship. Fool.

Helen Mallon
5 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:42:59
I want him out as well but, Jim Hourigan, if Coleman had scored his two sitters, he would have been lauded for that sub.

I just wish he had played Seamus from the start because I think we would have won that game. Like you have stated, that's where he falls down: bad player decisions.

Michael Polley
6 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:56:19
Excellent article. Martinez is damaging our great club, and if he is allowed to continue that damage will become irreversible, and the implications for Everton will last for years to come.

Please God we are taken over within the next few weeks, and Martinez is shown the door. We have a great group of young players, but if something isn’t done they will all jump ship in the Summer, and we will be left with a relegation team – the new Wigan!!!

Alex Doyle
7 Posted 26/01/2016 at 08:57:04
I hope this is one of those moments that we can look back at and say that was a turning point. Rock bottom was reached. But all is not lost. Everton are a completely different beast away from home. If we beat Liverpool and win a trophy, it could be the making of this side.

It's the hope that kills you!

Eddie Dunn
8 Posted 26/01/2016 at 09:28:32
Nicely summed-up, Jim. As much as I have wanted to "like" Roberto, his stubbornness has driven me mad, and although we have, at times played some marvellous attacking football, we have also showed total ineptitude in equal measure.

His hopes lie at the Etihad, but a successful evening looks less likely than after the home leg, as our form has collapsed, while Man City, though vulnerable at the back, have Mr Aguero hitting form.

The return of Jags will help, but I am sure that we will come up with a defensive mistake or two to extinguish our hopes, even if we do get that away goal.

Defeat will surely turn up the heat on this man, but as to whether our old-fashioned, principled Chairman would be proactive enough to give Martinez the push, I doubt very much. Even while we are in the FA Cup, and with a mathematical chance of the Europa league, our Chairman will stick with him. We are a nice club, with a nice Chairman, with nice players, in a cut-throat, money-led league, where nice guys lose.

No big pressure on Bill, equals no big pressure on Roberto, so whatever happens, the Sun will rise on Thursday morning, some old excuses will be rehashed, and we will prepare to compete in the next game.

Rodger Armstrong
9 Posted 26/01/2016 at 09:33:17
Well written piece, Jim. You'll have seen I share your frustrations on many levels!
Reg Gates
10 Posted 26/01/2016 at 09:46:05
Well done, Jim, it says it all for me. He is weak and tries to hide it with being stubborn.

Blame the crowd!!!! Toffee woman next??? Happy day for me when he's kicked out.

Don Alexander
11 Posted 26/01/2016 at 10:32:23
Great article, Jim, and I fully support your opinion.

It’s been obvious for years that the joy managers had in visiting Wigan has now transferred to them genuinely looking forward to visiting Goodison despite the media crap they all come out with about it being "a very tough arena" etc etc, after they win.

The results scream this to one and all. If Kenwright feels the need to justify giving Martinez the boot he could just cite his total lack of professionalism in consistently failing to address schoolboy necessities such as defence and fitness.

Oh, and the "coaches" need to go too. They’re contaminated.

Barry Pearce
12 Posted 26/01/2016 at 11:04:26
Can't argue with any of that.

Great piece Jim.

John Jones
13 Posted 26/01/2016 at 11:52:36
I am going to watch his press conference. You see if he is feeling the pressure, if the right questions are asked, with the Echo starting to turn on him as well as ex-players... this could be fun.

I never want Everton to lose but... A cup final and relegation is a nightmare a wake up from every morning.

John Jones
14 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:30:21
Martinez should work as a spin doctor. 20 minute delay on the press conference probably telling the journos what they can and cannot ask.

This guy can spin that much shit, he could make shit coats for a living.

David Griffiths
15 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:39:09
A poster on another forum recently summed up the Martinez management style perfectly with four words – "all philosophy, no substance". If I was given just one word to sum it up (one that would be acceptable to use on a public forum that is), it would be "unprofessional".

With the exception of Mike Walker who only lasted a few months, Martinez is in my view the worst Everton manager of my lifetime – and that is a considered opinion not a rant. Never have I seen an Everton team perform so consistently poorly taking into account the standard of the players at their disposal. There have been some poor Everton teams over the years, but the present team is not a poor team – it’s potentially a very good team if only it was managed well.

Unfortunately, when you have a manager who steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the importance of getting the basics of the game right, there is no hope of any improvement. Why can’t the board see that?

Paul Smith
16 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:41:47
These press conferences are a farce. No real biting questions asked of him and it's too much of a love-in and scared of losing any freebies coming to them.

As for tomorrow night, my team would be a bit controversial and I will explain why after the team. I would play:

Robles, Coleman, Stones, Jagielka, Baines, Lennon, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley, Pienaar, Lukaku.

The reason for omitting Barkley and Deulofeu is that they both run out of gas after an hour or so and with this team hopefully were still right in the game at this time.

Then we bring these two on with the game opening up with the hope of them winning the game for us. The injuries to Besic and Mirallas are a blow as these would have started before Cleverley and Pienaar in my team.

Andy Meighan
17 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:46:06
Great piece, Jim; I couldn't agree more. But the sad thing is, there's not a prayer he'll get sacked – even if we are out of both cups on Sunday night. The man has got the safest job in the game. Here's one Evertonian who will be massively shocked if he were to lose his job.
Paul Goodchild
18 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:47:00
Great article, Jim. If there is an article that sums up how the majority of Everton fans feel, this is the one.

Our style of play and formation is so predictable, it is making it so much easier for other managers to set their own teams up against us.

When taking the quality of our squad into account, 6 victories out of 23 is just not good enough. Two of those against the bottom two and two fairly fortunate wins against Newcastle Utd and West Brom. Only the Southampton and Chelsea victories really stand out for me this season.

Mike Corcoran
19 Posted 26/01/2016 at 12:50:46
I can see McCarthy breaking down after 5 mins. I agree though on Pienaar and Lennon with Funes Mori in for Stones in a 4-3-3, 4-5-1 thing...
Steve Harris
20 Posted 26/01/2016 at 13:43:39
Absolutely brilliant article, Jim, one of the best I’ve ever read on here. Sums up my views and opinions precisely. I don’t think even the most deluded Martinez fan could disagree with any of it.
Chris Jones [Burton]
21 Posted 26/01/2016 at 13:57:38
I agree with playing-it-out from the back as a common approach, but there's a time and a place.

You do not adhere to such a philosophy slavishly. When your centre back has the ball near the goal line out wide, that's the time for the hoof. You play football out from the back when you are sorted as a unit and there are players making runs in front of you to find with the ball, not when you're backed into a corner. Similarly, Cruyff turns in the box is risky stuff.

The manager needs to tell players: "Look, you're the one on the pitch, if you think its time to get rid and push up, do it. Use your initiative. Obviously I'd prefer if you can play out from the back, but it isn't always the wise thing to do."

To paraphrase the (ahem) late, great Bob Paisley: 'If you're unsure what to do, bang it up-field and we'll discuss your options later.'

Liu Weixian
22 Posted 26/01/2016 at 14:38:56
RM is a snake oil seller, a magic stone peddler, and a fengshui charlatan rolled into one. Now that he's started to blame the crowd, I expect the Goodison cat to be next in his line of fire.
Bill Gall
23 Posted 26/01/2016 at 14:40:28
This is his seventh season in the Premier League and apart from the success of the majority of his first season with us, Everton’s performances have run hot and cold with no inclination of what you are going to get. His supporters with BK being his main cheerleader simply bring up the cup final win and the cup win over Everton as backing for him.

You can excuse a season if you are trying something new but you must be able to observe the negatives as well as the positives and do something about the negatives. Doing nothing about the negatives (defense) is, as some one else put, just extremely unprofessional.

BK will not fire him as this will show he made a mistake, a mistake he made by simply excepting that after Wigan beat Everton in the cup Martinez became his first and only choice as Everton’s new manager.

Martinez from the last few games of his first season to over half way of his third season has not performed up to the expectations of a Everton manager and as such, unless he is capable of turning it around should be fired.

Sean Patton
24 Posted 26/01/2016 at 14:45:52
I still think it is too early to sack him I always think a manager should get at least 3 seasons to shape and mould his team. I believe perhaps incorrectly that we are only two players away from being the side we all crave you cant underestimate how much having a good goalie does for a side, Arsenal are title contenders on the back of theirs.

If you swap Howard for Butland/Lloris this season the team would be top 6.
If you replaced Kone for Vardy/Ighalo we would be in the top 4.

Craig Mills
25 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:08:10
I think it's fair to say the pressure is definitely mounting on Martinez, you can't pick a paper up without reading about "under performing" Everton, add to that the ex players adding their concerns and the radio phone ins regularly bombarded by disillusioned Blues.
The discontent is spreading, but he won't get sacked if we go out tomorrow, I doubt he'd go if we lose at Carlisle on Sunday but all this negative press will not shift if Martinez does not change his ways, he needs to find a way to win, and not a way to play pretty
Allan Barratt
26 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:11:55
Sean 24 – If you replaced Kone for Vardy/Ighalo we would be in the top 4.

Rubbish... you think they’d have the same impact playing on the left wing... Mr Martinez doesn’t do 2 upfront.

Tony Heron
27 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:12:08
Great article Jim, I particularly agree with your views on using subs to change tactics. I remember when Joe Royle was Manager of Oldham, he was very inventive with tactical changes, something our "genius" seems not to have in his DNA.

Chris( #21), I couldn't agree more about players taking responsibility and thinking for themselves. It was obvious to me on Sunday, albeit from the comfort of my armchair, that Swansea were deliberately pushing up against our back 4 knowing that we would try to play it around at the back.

It was almost inevitable there would be a mistake, incidentally a good and aware keeper would have made and cleared that backpass and and would probably have drawn a free kick when he got clattered.

The point is though the players should be savvy enough to know when a change of style is needed. I only ever played park football but we knew enough to realise that when we were against the wind on an open pitch we kept the ball down and passed it around.

When it was with us we used it to play long and keep the opposition under pressure. Nobody had to tell us this, it was just about common sense and using our vast experience as 20 and 21 year olds with no coaching whatsoever!

Robin Cannon
28 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:12:26
@Sean (24) - The only problem with that logic is that, by failing to identify those 2 players at the start of this season, we'll have to replace about 6 at the start of next season.

Barring the kind of demonstrable change and promise that gives real expectation of a top 4 push next season (and even that's a stretch), there's no chance the core members of the squad are going to stick around another year.

I can't see that change happening in any circumstance other than a managerial change now (which means it won't happen).

Sam Hoare
29 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:23:22
Sean@24, whilst I agree that the margins are small and Butland and Vardy may have us 10 or 12 points better off the fact remains that Martinez refuses to see or admit that the likes of Howard and Kone are not good enough. His intransigence and loyalty to certain senior pros irrelevant of form is part of the problem. So really its a bit like saying...if he were a better manager we’d have more points!

Martinez seems a nice guy. I admire lots of his principles and he looks to have an eye for young talent (or is that the scouts?) but he has surely proven now that he is a limited manager in many respects. Repeated mistakes, reactive rather than proactive substitutions, tactically outfought in a few cases and failing to address the clear defensive deficiencies in his chosen system. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding is 12th, with one win in 10 despite having surely our best squad in a few decades and a relatively easy time of it injury wise.

If he had coached excellent league teams before with well organised systems then I might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and a bit more time but the fact is that HE NEVER HAS. In hoping that he can combine the free flowing football with a more solid team we are waiting for him to do something that he has never previously been able to do and I fear never will.

Mike Gaynes
30 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:57:13
Paul Mackie #3, I'm in full agreement. This weekend I too reluctantly joined the sack-RM contingent here. However, like you I think the move should be held until summer.
Jay Harris
32 Posted 26/01/2016 at 16:54:00
Jim good post but it is time for everyone to realize this guy is not for changing. He lives in his own deluded world where everything is positive and how dare you criticise him.

He has carried on that way since his Swansea days and throughout his reign with Wigan so why should we expect him to change now.

Besides having some of the best players in the world Barcelona still benefit from being in a league and a (hot) country where the intensity of the game is much less.

Unfortunately for Martinez we don't play the game in Spain, we play it in England and he just doesn't get it.

I felt he should have gone last Xmas and can only think Bill’s illness, patience and the supposed takeover are the only reasons he is still in a job.

Christopher Dover
34 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:36:28
Don’t know if it’s been commented on but, when they met Bill Gates, Jags as captain was there... the other two in the photo? Kone and Howard. Dream on.
Russell Smith
35 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:46:41
Add me to the list of supporters who have tried to give Martinez the benefit of the doubt but now have concluded that he needs to be removed before he does anymore damage. Irrespective of what result we get tomorrow we need to replace him before the season ends so that the likes of Lakaku, Stones etc can be persuaded to stay next year.

Of all the various managers mentioned as being possible replacements nobody has mentioned Sean Dyche of Burnley. He got an unfashionable team of journeymen playing good attacking football promoted two years ago, got relegated because as a group they were not really good enough for the Prem but without spending any real money (this may be a plus point with BK if his current choice is a yardstick), and has now re-built another attractive attacking side that I suspect will be promoted again this year. But more importantly his teams can defend. Even in their relegation year it was the fact that they found it hard to score not that they conceded bucketfuls of goals.

At least with him we would understand what he was talking about after the game, he would address the obvious fitness and non-combat issues (Barkley, Deulofeu), and he might even bring his goalie with him.

But whoever we recruit it must be before what is undoubtedly a talented squad are disheartened by the failed tactics of RM and move on to other clubs.
Paul Hughes
36 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:49:41
Sean 24 you say give a manager 3 seasons. At the end of the 2009 season Wigan finished 11th under Steve Bruce, step forward Roberto: every season they slid down the table till they where eventually relegated on his 4th season in charge. Please, please, please, Roberto, resign.
Alasdair Jones
37 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:54:07
The issue concerning the prospect of Martinez being sacked is at this juncture bound up with the possible sale of the club. Kenwright and the board cannot risk putting the potential buyers in a position whereby they have a recently appointed and untested new face as manager as part of the package.

Leaving Martinez in place is the only option. If the club is sold the buyer will see and decide for himself if he is the man for another year or more. Likely they will conclude, as most correspondents to this site do, that he cannot take us further forward. But I suspect they want to be in a position to make that sort of decision themselves. Not have it made for them by the previous owners.

Regrettable I know but it is another spanner in the works along with the conundrum; well if he goes who comes in?

Ray Roche
38 Posted 26/01/2016 at 17:54:16
Since January last year, we have played Premier League 42 games, winning 13. Of those games 22 have been at home, winning 7. Fortress Goodison? It used to be.

Uber for Martinez.

Sean Patton
39 Posted 26/01/2016 at 18:26:08
Sam,

I take the point of his inflexible attitude I don't think he cant see the problem with those two players I think he does he just has so much unshakeable faith in his beliefs that he feels (wrongly imo) he can mask their particular deficiencies with his style of play.

Robin

The good think about that scenario is because of his eye for a player if there is an exodus in the summer the combined fees will be well over £100M which is plenty for any possible new manager to be getting on with.

I say we wait until the end of the season and see where we are but if it’s another bottom-half finish with no cup to show for it then it is adios senor.

Ian Jones
40 Posted 26/01/2016 at 18:29:58
Jim does seem to cover the situation.

Sam at #29 also neatly covers my thoughts but, and before people think I am defending Martinez as a Manager, what was he like at Swansea?

Was there defence as dodgy as ours? Was he there when they got promoted or did someone else step in and complete the job?

I could check myself but haven’t.

Jay Harris
41 Posted 26/01/2016 at 18:55:40
Ian,

I think he was more successful at Swansea but they were in the second division which he got them promoted to but not without his typical poor run of games followed by a good run of games.

It has to be remembered that Swansea were on the up then following a path laid out by Jenkins but Martinez left for Wigan under a cloud as he had promised he would have to be sacked to leave Swansea.

We all know what happened there. The typical Martinez yo-yo effect took place with regular inconsistency while Swansea prospered under Brendan Rogers and ended up in the Prem.

He was preceded at Wigan by the Veritable Steve Bruce who achieved much better results.

Ian Jones
42 Posted 26/01/2016 at 19:05:43
I just checked re Martinez and Swansea. Made me laugh. In first season at Swansea one defeat in 11 gave Swansea a chance to clinch promotion through play offs. They didn’t clinch it. Probably not helped by a 6-3 home defeat against Blackpool in last match. However they were 3-2 up with about 35 mins to go. Missed a penalty as well. Sound familiar

Having moved to Wigan, Man Utd beat them 5-0 after it being 0-0 at half time.

And lost 9-1 against Spurs. He does like these high scoring matches. To be fair he does indicate according to the BBC website that the manner of defeat was unacceptable. Also to be fair Wigan were only 1-0 down at halftime and managed to lose 8 goals after the 55th minute. But fair play to him and his tactics. He saw fit not to make any subs until 5-1 down. Probably thought the performance was okay. His second and last sub in the 85th minute was effective as Spurs went on to score a few more ..

Who can wait for tomorrow. Everton will win and get to Wembley. Play Stoke and lose. It’s in the stars!

Steven Twine
43 Posted 26/01/2016 at 19:22:12
Most of everything I wanted to write has been written but I’ll add opposition corners to the list. Why can’t he keep a player on the half way line when the other team have a corner? It really is so frustrating.

Twice with ironic cheers Howard caught the ball from corners and looked to realise a quick throw and guess what, every player in our box, even the hard as nails no messing defender Deulofeu!! What the hell is he doing defending a corner?

You know what happens next: Howard keeps the ball, waits for Swansea to get back in position then rolls it to Stones. 20 passes later we still haven’t passed the half way line. It’s as if Martinez doesn’t want to score an easy goal, everything must have 20 passes and be a wonder goal. It happens every game.

Ray Roche
44 Posted 26/01/2016 at 19:40:39
Ian, it would appear that a Martinez team runs out of steam in the second half and concedes late goals... lack of fitness?
Colin Glassar
45 Posted 26/01/2016 at 19:46:00
That's not exactly true is it Ray? Last season I would agree that out fitness levels were poor but not this season. Tactics are the problem, not fitness.
John Keating
46 Posted 26/01/2016 at 19:52:52
Sorry, Colin, I could not disagree more. Our fitness levels are atrocious. Unlike most other teams we cannot play 2 high tempo halves. I look at Spurs and I hate to say it, our neighbours, and we can’t compare.

Present players have alluded to the fact that Martinez is not big on fitness training preferring ball work.

Darren Hind
47 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:05:02
I The pretence should have never have began.

Thousands of people should never have pretended he had improved our defence in his first season when they knew it was Moyes's defensive unit.

They should never have pretended it was ok to fuck off to South America moonlighting then pretend pre-season preparation didnt really matter

They should never have argued till they were blue in the face that we did not hand goals on a plate to opposition by fucking about with the ball in dangerous area's.

They should never have pretended we were playing fantastic football especially when the Goodison faithful were howling their derision.

They should never have pretended that Martinez had a "plan"

They should never have pretended that he was a genius because he could spot young talented players and sign them despite fierce opposition from richer clubs

The should never have pretended that we were going eyeball to Eyeball at the grounds of top four clubs.

They should never have pretended that we were making progress when they could clearly see we were going backwards

They should never have blamed the crowd

What really pisses me off . . is that all those who tried to silence critics by labeling them "Haters" . ."Negative" and "anti Everton" are now weighing in themselves. They are pretending this is not what they signed up for.

They wanted football played out from the back - They got it

They wanted bobbie because he thought positively - They got it

They wanted Martinez to be given more time despite witnessing the worst football ever seen last season - They got it.

They got everything they wanted . .now they're screaming it's shite.

Well this is it. This is what you signed up for.

Martinez is here to stay, if he was going to go it should have been last season. . .but they said he was "building a Dynasty"

The game against City is Massive. Anyone who says he wants us to lose should tender his resignation as an Evertonian. We have huge gaping holes in our team, but some of our players are immensely talented. We have a manager who clearly isn't up to the day to day running of a top football club, but he may just have enough X factor to deliver the trophy we all so badly crave. We have more than a puncher's chance.

The last generation of Everton players knew how to get top six, but they choked in the big games. This class is yet to be tested. Maybe they will turn out to be big game players ?

We'll find out tomorra

Tony Abrahams
48 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:05:42
Jim, I agree with what you are trying to say, but when you say he insists on playing with two widemen, even if they are not natural wingers, I'm not so sure.

Give the man stick for things he his doing wrong, but writing things that don't ring true, doesn't make sense to me.

One of the biggest problems these last two seasons, is the fact that we have been very unbalanced out wide. The only time we have looked compact, is when either Osman or Cleverley, have been asked to play out of position out wide.

Douglas McClenaghan
49 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:15:09
I, too, have reluctantly joined the non-believers. We cannot go on like this. I hope that the new owners will be settled before season’s end and they sack him and and bring in a proven winner.

We will certainly lose quality players and if RM is still in charge then we are looking at the lower third of the table and all the joys of a relegation battle.

Sid Logan
50 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:17:26
ToffeeWeb to a man or woman is pretty much in a rage against Martinez.

It's exactly the same when you speak to any Evertonian leaving the game ot wherever you meet them. Everyone I go to the match with feels exactly the same.

One thing that's beginning to intrigue me though is whether he's aware of the feeling of supporters. It also begs the question whether anyone in the club's decision making hierarchy is getting the vibes.

Martinez has a subtle way of never personally taking the blame for anything that goes wrong. Whenever he speaks he says things like don't judge John Stones too soon, allow Barkley to make mistakes and so on.

He reminds me of those managers I've observed over the years who say something like "I take full responsibility for the players performance. I pick the team and the buck stops with me". What they really mean is "As you all really know these players are a bunch of shite and I'm the poor sod who has to manage them". It's a way of shifting the blame but appearing to be manfully taking responsibility.

Although Martinez could never bring himself to say something like that himself he's actually using a different ploy to shift the majority of responsiblity on to the fans and to a lesser extent the players themselves but not on to himself.

At what stage does he get the message that most of us are holding him responsible for what's happening. That's another way of saying who tells the emperor that he's not wearing any clothes?

Dave Abrahams
51 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:21:46
Another four great contributions in tonight’s Echo all having a go at Martinez, particularly at his comments about the crowds reaction to the style of play and the players being frightened by the crowd.

The Echo is starting to let the supporters do the dirty work, although to be fair Greg O’Keefe and Michael Ball are having a dabble at it.

Steve Pugh
52 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:24:19
If Chelsea had waited until the summer would their results have improved in the way that they have?

All those people who think that we should wait. Why?

Will things improve if he stays? Will we be one of the few clubs that don't improve after a bad manager is sacked?

Just why let him drag us further down when every league place is worth so much?

Michael McCarthy
53 Posted 26/01/2016 at 20:51:41
Jim,

You hit the nail on the head... or should it be... Martinez on the head.

I have lost patience, he will never listen and learn from previous mistakes. We all make mistakes but not over and over again.

A 6-year apprenticeship, a slow slow learner! New owners will not put up with it. Further more in August you won’t see half of this team in an EFC shirt. They will be gone.

Roger Helm
54 Posted 26/01/2016 at 21:27:15
I would be very surprised if there are any new owners. We have seen before that as soon as potential buyers see the books they back out.

As for Martinez, all his teams after his first promotion have slowly slid down the league until, in Wigan's case, relegation. I suppose it is a combination of poor player fitness and predictable tactics.

If Lukaku jumps ship in the summer, I can see the same happening to us next year. Too big to get relegated? Bigger clubs than us have gone down.

Ian Hollingworth
55 Posted 26/01/2016 at 22:47:27
Great article, well written summing up what I have felt for a long time.

It does make me laugh that he is perceived as a great philosopher and tactician when he actually does exactly the same thing over and over. I can only assume this perception is because he is Spanish as there is no factual evidence whatsoever.

He has to go before it’s too late.

Brian Denton
56 Posted 26/01/2016 at 23:07:38
Which bigger clubs (Roger #54)?
Frank Thomas
57 Posted 26/01/2016 at 00:29:49
The visits of Bill Gates and Sylvester Stallone combined with Tim Howard (Goalkeeper of the year) constantly playing in the Everton team must be providing Martinez with plenty of publicity in the USA. Martinez and Tim always seem to be in the picture.

Will Martinez be sacked ? Not unless we lose badly against Man City and Carlisle because The Everton Football Club and its fans are all ladies and gentlemen and an inexcusable display consisting of poor tactics, lack of effort a display of really poor skills is the ONLY case for sacking a manager early.

Hence the two reasons for 'resting' Jags. We stand more chance of getting to Wembley and Martinez gets more coverage in the USA.

However our club has had some shockingly bad decisions this year, clearly offside goals allowed, great tackles producing wrongly given penalties etc. We are use to bad decisions but last week one of the commentators and a referee (both pundits) both agreed those decisions have really been bad and have cost us at least 7 or 8 points this season. So if there is any justice we should win the League and FA Cups.


Anto Byrne
58 Posted 27/01/2016 at 01:39:18
I was really hoping that Stoke would get thru to Wembley as I wanted retribution for that result at Xmas. When the gods of luck shine down they rarely look at Everton on a consistent basis.

Still we should be making our own luck as they say because the harder they work the luckier they should become. So let it be EFC v LFC and lets get our players fighting fit and win the bloody thing.

Harold Matthews
59 Posted 26/01/2016 at 04:49:31
Sam. Nice post mate. Just about covered everything in your usual level headed way.

Like Kevin T #4, I find it difficult to support Martinez while he continues to pick Howard, a keeper I didn't rate when he joined from United and my opinion has not changed. He suits some people, he suits Martinez but he doesn't suit me. A good shot-stopper but too many inexplicable costly decisions with time to think.

As for the tactics. To be quite honest, I've yet to fathom them out. The playing out from the back and the possession stuff come from Martinez but the players still do their own thing. He certainly wouldn't instruct Stones to mess around at the back and make himself a target. His partner, Funes Mori, just tries to defend in the normal manner. The Deulofeu crosses come from the lad himself. Jags will play his normal suicidal high line even though we no longer have the height and pace of Distin. Pienaar will do his Pienaar stuff and so it goes. Complicated instructions slow us down early on but once the ball hits the back of our net we revert to our normal game.

So there we have it. A season where the abysmal home results have taken the shine off everything. He is building a young useful squad but so long as he sticks with Howard and the players back off instead of closing down, I want a new man in charge.

Ernie Baywood
60 Posted 27/01/2016 at 05:47:46
They're have been people who have joked (at lest I think they've joked) about bringing Moyes back as a number two.

Maybe it's not too wild a theory to suggest that few managers are masters of every element of the game. Let's not forget that with Moyes' base, Martinez provided exactly what was needed for a short period.

I wonder whether you accept that team management will always fall to one person, but that they could just be responsible for a phase in the team's development.

Moyes was great at bringing stability and adding a tough core to the side on a budget.

Martinez was able to take that basis and add youth, pace and attacking edge.

Maybe the next step needed to be an experienced head to take that talented team and guide it to real results.

Peter Gorman
61 Posted 27/01/2016 at 07:49:18
I totally fail to understand how people can claim that Martinez has brought such exciting attacking football not seen in many a year etc.

How? How is it entertaining to watch the ball move side to side across the defence? Honestly guys, how does this equate to entertainment.

It is a line used so often on ToffeeWeb it is never challenged but the atmosphere at Goodison is that of a morgue.

I personally think people are bending over backwards to give the man some credit but he doesn't deserve such a compliment in my book.

Ray Roche
62 Posted 27/01/2016 at 07:57:28
Colin Glassar #45

It's both Colin.

Joe Foster
63 Posted 27/01/2016 at 07:59:08
I agree Peter its like being excited about having a root canal procedure.
Paul Tran
64 Posted 27/01/2016 at 08:07:11
I'll second Harold's comments and sentiments. Tonight we'll get a draw or get hammered. Manager and players owe us a result. I don't care about the performance.
Seb Niemand
65 Posted 27/01/2016 at 08:42:54
I had no faith in him from Day 1 and I feel absolutely no satisfaction in, week-in, week-out, being proven right. Martinez is an insult to this club and his continuing employment is an insult to the fans.
David Harrison
66 Posted 27/01/2016 at 12:21:33
With you all the way, Jim. Totally convinced that this guy will ultimately get us relegated if we stick with him. Obviously desperate for us to win tonight but am really worried that it will save Martinez's skin for another season and that will be a season too far. His beautiful vision of how the game should be played is a siren call that will smash the good ship EFC on the rocks if we don't wake up and smell the coffee/bullshit
Bill Gall
67 Posted 27/01/2016 at 14:50:04
Glad to see that BK is admitting to the Echo, that the reason he hired Martinez was for their victory in the Cup Final over Man City.

I wonder why he did not discuss with him the tactics he displayed over the season that had seen Wigan relegated, or asked him why nothing had been done to prevent their poor defensive record over the three previous seasons?

Sounds like there was no due diligence done in looking for a new manager after Moyes left.

Rick Tarleton
68 Posted 27/01/2016 at 18:49:13
Bill Gall is right in his assessment of Kenwright's lack of interest, so that due diligence did not occur. Kenwright is the cause of Everton's problems, Martinez merely the symptom and Howard in every sense is the fall-guy.

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