Martinez appeals for faith while supporters groups plan protests

However, if September 1st arrives and things remain the same I hope he's prepared as I really think this time the protests will be vociferous (unless by some miracle we are four or five games unbeaten).

Is it official now, the proper word is 'assets' from now on and no longer 'players'?

I've said in the past I like Roberto's "vision". That's exactly what I mean. He has a long term vision and plan of building around a talented youth "core".

I want to be patient with Roberto...

Sixteen years of BK with no new stadium plan or development with failed attempts and lies makes it real difficult to see what Roberto is trying to accomplish.

It'll be ok. We'll hear of a new stadium plan next Spring... cough-cough-cough. It's the way forward... gag-gag-gag.

We have a forward thinking manager with a Neanderthal owner and board.

Simple as that.

This board bought in for 20 million or so? They are sitting on a 120 million sale easily. NO business plan to get a new ground or redevelop Goodison. Leading the sheep astray with lies.

The BOARD is the problem. Look at ANY sports franchise in the free world and they are only as good as their owners.

Where's the 5 year plan to get us out of our dilapidated stadium? Where's the merchandising business plan? Why have we been COMPLETELY asset-stripped?

Roberto loves this club. I've no idea why. He'll never get the support he needs. He's doing all he can under the circumstances - plodding forward trying like hell to build and hold on to a nucleus of fantastic young talent.

I pray the man succeeds.

I also wonder who is putting the money up for this. I’d like to see their blue credentials.

The season has already started and the squad is weaker than last term which was a disaster,

Garbutt, Long, Distin and Alcatraz have gone and we've got Cleverley and Delofeu in.

We have had six months to plan and execute some quality transfers but in typical fashion we sit back while other clubs get the cream.

I notice Richards went on a free and Scott Sinclair went for 2.5 m while quality such as Traore, Ayew,Ogbonna, Cabaye,Connor Widkham,sako,Wijnaldum, Afelay, Shaquiri, Payet etc have all been swept up by the opposition while we stand back and wait.

Nero fiddled while Rome Burns seems to be the perfect analogy.

When a colleague once suggested to our chairman we should be looking at the long term he was reminded that "without the short term there wont be any long term"

Bullshit.

Kenwright may have his flaws, and our board certainly do as well but I don't think it'll do anyone any good. Seems like a minority group with a bit of money to throw around if you ask me and the board will likely shrug it off.

So he's saying of the 3 players we need 2 will be from the academy?

Our club relies entirely on future TV deals to fund the playing staff, it does not generate any commercial finance to invest in the squad because of either sheer incompetence and/or neglect of their duties of the board. Others are managed properly and its becoming a gap that will be too far to bridge, and that's just your Saints, Stoke and Swansea.

He got a load of stick on hear but my opinion is if it wasn't for what Moyes did with the net spend over 10 years we would be playing Stevenage today not Southampton and I've got no confidence Martinez has the ability to do the same incredible job. He is taking us where Moyes picked it up after Smith.

The game has moved on but we were lumbered with Bill and his mates but while the cherries were ripe we missed out.

The days of genuinely challenging and winning things are over and sadly most fans appear to simply accept that's that but this protest today and hopefully many more in future shouldn't necessarily be about changing the board for someone new because that simply won't happen until health forces Bill to stand down. That ship sailed when the Kings Dock fiasco and countless others mentioned previously was accepted by the majority of Evertonians. What this should be about is raising enough media interest into forcing Kenwright or Elstone out and answering the questions that need answering. Finally it appears there is now some appetite in the media to force this,the echo notwithstanding obviously.

Oh and by the way I know 2 premiership players, 1 current and 1 former and If anybody genuinely believes that's a group of lads in their 20s/30s who are all millionaires from playing a bit if footy will be in the slightest bit affected by a Cessna and banner flying over later you need to have a word with yourselves. They won't give a toss.

Nothing wrong with booing the plane, but a split fan base is a dangerous concoction, especially considering the passion amongst most Evertonians. Let's just hope the team put on a good performance to take away some of the negativity.

A protest will not affect the players on or off the pitch in any way shape or form.

BK has been a disaster for our club.

We have no assets whatsoever. Everything has been sold or mortgaged several times over.

We rely totally on TV money to survive. The club commercially is a disaster.

Stand at the Winslow and look up at the main stand. It's falling apart. The windows don't even get cleaned, they are filthy.

Kings Dock.

Board members who don't put a penny of their own money in. They wont even guarantee loans with British bank, forcing us to take out these hefty overseas loans. Who do you think owns these overseas banks?

Clubs being sold left right and centre, not us, despite BK looking 24/7. Why do you think that is?

Philip Green, what is and has been his involvement?

Absolutely no chance of winning any trophies.

The list could go on for pages.

For anyone who thinks that there should be no protest, at what point should there be one?

What do Tim Cahill, Landon Donovan and Tim Howard have in common?

Did we cash in on having these players at out club? The three biggest superstars their countries have produced in a decade and I bet you most yanks and Aussies couldn't even tell you what club they played for.

I'm sure the aim is to start focusing the media on the running of the club, hence it being today at a televised game. It's already picked up coverage from the Daily Mirror.

Something has got to change because the clubs being run into the ground.

A word from Phil Thompson or Paul Merson on Sky is more likely to elicit a response than a group of Evertonians flying a plane over a stadium.

The one thing that Bill values more than anything else is his public persona as Mr. Everton, BP Bill, The Cannon Ball Kid etc.... Once his value to the club is called into question, in the media glare, he just might decide to walk away.

He's spent years convincing the gullible that he's the only man who can run EFC and the media have generally accepted this but now questions will start to be asked about his disastrous reign.

This has nothing to do with the football on the pitch. This is about BK and YEARS of incompetence!

Hope this is the start of something and not a one off.

And the upshot of this vociferously expressed discontent? Players, teams, coaches, clubs undermined by their own fans? Hardly, just think of the current year 2015 with Barcelona and Sevilla champions of the European competitions. Take a specially good look at Sevilla. Is their present success built exclusively of decades of harmonious relations between the club and it fan base? Not in the least.

"El que no llora, no mama." "The baby that doesn't cry, doen't get to to suck on the tit." Sometimes you've got make yourself heard in order to get your just desserts.

In 16 years his £1M personal investment has risen to £40M so don’t feel sorry for him when he goes. In 16 years, we haven’t won a dicky-bird so he can’t even claim a legacy.

We need an independent company to sell off the club, not a snake-oil salesman. People on here defending him should remember what they have said when we regularly become a bottom-half team.

As for us looking classless making this protest because the chairman might be ill, he hasn't been ill the last sixteen years while cocking the club up.

Let this be the first of many protests with more people backing the groups who make them, if the club is going down lets go down fighting, not standing idly by.

Fly that plane, put up the banners - this lot are slowly killing this club. Wake Up.

But if Kenwright is ill, as I imagine he is (I can’t see that being bullshit as well), then those protesting today will look a bit tasteless.

But, as said before, each to their own and have their own opinion.

William Kenwright, healthy or poorly, needs to go now. For the the benefit of the club and himself he needs to step down so someone with a modicum of business sense, and ambition, can steer our club in a different direction. Bill has had his chance and he blew it.

If he goes now he might be remembered with a degree of fondness in a few years time. If he clings on to power then he will become another Doug Ellis, a man universally disliked by friends and foe alike.

Personally, I find it fucking embarrassing on a kopite scale. A plane! A fucking plane pulling a banner!

What does it show? If you chant, you find out if there are 35,000 with you. If you march, you find out if there are 35,000 ready to walk with you.

A plane shows absolutely nothing. It's a small group deciding that they speak for everyone. That now is the time and this is the way. How self important is that?

Hope Martinez gets the 3 players he claims but hope they are the right players and will it make him change the way we play??

I would be happy if both BK and Martinez left for the good of Everton FC

As far as the Martinez/team issue goes, our manager has asked for patience and its blindingly obvious why. He won't get anyone in until the Board releases the funds to get those players.

Roberto can have identified the players he wants weeks/months ago but he is as helpless as Moyes was at recruiting top quality, or ewven ordinary quality players

I have me doubts about the style of play, at times because I see our buoild up as too slow. I look at the first season though, and most of the time it was good to watch.

I want to see Roberto being given the players he's asked for, being able to count on the services of the youngsters who are not far off ready, to see Pienaar and Gibson back (who's dreaming) and top see what Delefeu can do in a club he wants to be at.

I don't expect us to do much more than finish around the top 8 this season, but guess that depoends a bit on who is available for Roberto to pick. I cant see yet, that he is putting the team perilously close to relegation, so I don't see him being given a fair chance yet. I want tro see what happens froin Sept m1st onwards and I don't expect us to have gained a big haul of points between now and November. If there's progress, if there's fight, that'll do mer for starters.

I don't see anyway, Kenwright sacking him as he's given him a whopping big contract. Then, there's the issue that if somehow, he was sacked WHO replaces him =in this basket case of a club.

The other issue regharding Kewnwright. I think he shoulds have gone long ago. The problem is that who, if anyone is in line to succeed him.

As for the protests, I'm with them, as long as it's aimed at that bunch of charlatans on the Board and our good friend Green; not at Roberto and the team,.

If Everton lose today the NSNO group will be easy targets for taking the players' attention off the task at hand.

Poor tactics in my book - a mass streak would have gained much more attention !

I'm getting a sense of what it must have have been like in 1989 to have been at the Berlin wall with thousands of others (and a large mallet).

And I will try to put to the back of my mind any The World At War images of baldy, tar-covered, terrified looking Parisian sorts who..ahem, 'went with' the Germans.

If by some miracle we win with a good performance today, I will wake up tomorrow thinking it was a dream.

I want to believe Roberto has targets to bring in who will be better than what we have but generally bringing new players in at a late stage in the window takes time to embed them and given the tough start we have we need these quality players in, fit and ready to go. The only big signings will come if there is a big sale. I do however hope I am wrong!!!

Why is it always left till the last 2-3 weeks of the transfer window before we sign the vast majority of players?

Are we as a club being held back by playing in a 3rd class stadium with many obstructed views, whilst having to pay near full price for these seats?

Having queued up all half time for a piss or to try and get something to eat or drink?

We are continually getting misled on a ground move by the board?

What are these massive "other operating costs" where many millions of pounds go every season?

Why does a person who has a estimated wealth of £240m and sitting on the board, refuse to invest any money?

Fed up with the brand of football served up the vast majority of the previous 7-8 years?

I am not going into the kitbag deal, or one of lowest incomes
from shirt sponsorship, or the fiasco of not knowing we don't
own our own traing ground, or we don't own the land at the
rear of the parkend.

All of the above are a direct result of the current board!!!!

Time for them to go and direct action is the only option left, we are not going to go the game, so what else is left, raise our concerns to the national press and beyond, let the board know enough is enough

I'm very much in favour of this

So some of you think it's classless and embarrassing eh?

Well I'll tell you what's embarrassing ..... Everton FC at this present time, we are a laughing stock going nowhere

Our beautiful football club is falling to pieces whilst most of you sit around and watch it

I'm sick to death or this incompetent board of directors

Time to go - yes long overdue !!!!!

I do believe be has an eye for a young player, they seem to be Rom aside, pacy, athletic will a good skill set. Don't get me wrong Rom has some great attributes but his first touch is dire.

If only he could get his bloody tactics right!

His stubbornness... sticking with 2 D M (neither one of which sit in front of the back 4), lack of tempo, and backwards sideways passing, and failure press them and stand off them will unfortunately be his undoing if he doesn't have a "Eureka" moment this season.

"There are a lot of posters on here who watched Everton in the 1950/60s, they must be horrified at what we have descended into,"

I am one of those "horrified". I have wonderful memories of those days.

I lived in the North End of Birkenhead and used to meet up with two of my school mates John Laing and Tony Loy. John used to get a bus from the Woodchurch Estate to meet me and Tony at his mum and dads place in Ilchester Square.

From their we used to get the train form Birkenhead North into the Liverpool City centre and then a bus up to Goodison.

3/- used to get us through the turnstiles onto the Goodison Rd terraces under the clock at the Gladys St end (where Alex Parker used to ply his trade).

The hairs are starting to stand up on the back of my neck as I remember the feeling I used to get as we emerged from beneath the stands into that wonderful arena. All that lovely green grass cut and rolled. It was like stepping into another world for those 3 thirteen year olds in the early 60's.

The anticipation would mount as the terraces filled in behind us and around the ground. We used to guess how big the crowd would be - it was quite often over 50,000.

It was a great time to be an Evertonian although I do remember my dad (God rest him) grumbling about John Carey being sacked. That didn't last long however as we watched Harry Catterick assemble a team of champions. A team that any football fan anywhere in the world would have been truly proud to call "his team".

We had the lot then:

A great fan base
One of the best grounds in Britain
A great manager
A great team
A great Chairman

Sad to say all that remains is the great fan base, because, irrespective of our polarised views on the current situation, we all love "the club" - and there are many of us.

I emigrated to Australia in 1973 but the love affair with Everton Football Club continues. There is something great about this club and I live in hope that somehow it will find a leader that can restore its fortunes.

Southampton shortly. Young John Stones will have a chance to prove if he is worth $30m. That opportunity will come in the form of Pelle. Let's hope he rises to meet the challenge. If he does you never know we might just win this one.

Up the Blues!!!

As if we’d want our name printed in red!

It changes nothing! I think some, certainly myself, are just trying to enjoy the result today & leave anything negative alone at least until tomorrow :-)

I stopped coming on here last year due to the negativity which was overbearing.

I'm a fan of Martin ez & want him to succeed but agree with other people's points about him re tactics etc.

He got it right today & I'm really hoping this now continues.

Regarding protest, I really can't see any point of protest especially at this point in time unless the board has an immediate and realistic alternative to what it is doing now or the protesting group has ideas for credible alternatives themselves which they don't seem to have other than Kenwright out and hope for the best? It really isn't very good.

I only watched it on the telly, but this kid today was absolutely fantastic, a real pleasure to watch and enjoy.

Martin - pathetic

People like you are the reason why we have fallen so far behind

Do me a favour will you, go take a walk in Stanley Park and glance over at the progress our loveable neighbours are making

We need action NOW

John, Liverpool are not Everton, they are a richer club than us with far better access to finance. Kicking our current board out doesn't make us richer unless the new board can provide means of sustainably increasing revenue. Let me ask you, how do you feel an incoming board could sustainably increase our revenue? It's not a trick question but if we need action NOW we must have an idea of what that action could be?

Even if we signed Messi & Ronaldo, these fuckers have set this club back a generation. It's attitudes like this after a win or two that allow them to get one over a gullible fan base.

Some of us can see past what is occurring in our midfield on any given day. You should try it.

We also had the odd decent performance last year mixed in with the shit. Never the less, nice to get a win away to S'ton after all these years. The team today was unrecognisable to the one that played last week and you have to ask why? Which team will turn up next week?

We still need to clear out the board and get people in with a proper plan that doesn't just involve avoiding relegation and getting the sky money.

If all the asset stripping HAD been transformed into players we would be looking at a very different picture now.

In Kenwright's first 2 years we saw a change in the accounts to a net liability as opposed to a net asset position he inherited despite income from player sales.

When Kenwright took over "Other" operating costs were 1 million a year. Within a few years that had jumped to over 20 million and we were making losses every year hence Rooney had to be sold..

In his 15 year reign we have one of the lowest net spending amounts on players in the Prem so how do you equate that with asset sales.

Many quality players, a quality manager and backroom team, quality ground staff and a quality human being in Bill Kenwright. 100% behind the club, the board, the management, the chairman and the players. And thrilled to see today’s performance. The huge investment in Rom and the resistance of temptation to cash in on Ross paid dividends today.

Fixed assets stayed about the same but debtors (current assets) was up about 22 million.

Current assets such as debtors fluctuate from year to year and should not be considered when talking about asset stripping.

After ascertaining that he was an Aussie (and not with the Barmy Army), I asked him why he supported Everton? "Because of Tim Cahill," he said.

He was really keen and knew a great deal about our history, and of course TC was a great role model and ambassador for our great club.

However, I do think we as a club don’t make enough of our overseas players; there are many examples, as we all know.

Please get well soon.

Please get rid soon.

Let the club go with dignity, and you'll be remembered as you would like.

Thankyou.

Read your post again, and stop making sense. People are happy with the team today, leave it till tomorrow. PLEASE!

There has been no asset stripping at the club and I really hope that we don't see this myth repeated lest it gains any credibility.

Patrick@87
Do I think the board could have done better over recent years? Of course I do but I think in a complex situation they have done well to get us into an ever improving financial position and with a team that can play the devastating game that we played today, a game that very few could match including United. It's easy not to see the positives in a sea of irrational negatives though. Thanks for not being rude, it's appreciated :-)

Read your post again, and tell me how you know the answers to the points you raise?

Do us a favour though Mart, tell us tomorrow!!!

But before I go, one more thing, you was right with your last sentence mate, haha!

But protesting against a Board that has left us holding nothing much more than our name and trademark? I hope we still have some control of Goodison Park, but I won't put it past the Board to think renting it for a few hours every other week would be worth letting some circus or market keep it for the rest of the time!

Well Martin, when they took over from Johnson we had tangible assets (that’s physical possessions, not players) of around £16M and now it’s around £8M, just having increased £1.5M, we must have bought some lawnmowers.

Firstly I’m trying to enjoy a fabulous 3 points today.

Do you know what though... I started typing my reply to you highlighting and reminding you of the failures, lies and incompetence during the last 16 years of this current board. Then I got tired and thought.... I’m also tired of people like you.

I’m ashamed to see this fantastic club I love in the state it finds itself, struggling to compete in the transfer market with Stoke City and the like (FFS)

Your comment about Liverpool says to me that you see us as second best to them -- shame on you!

You’d still probably defend BK through a relegation.

Rude to you? Probably... Angry and frustrated with BK? You bet I am!

Can somebody point me in the right direction to find this figure in the accounts? I don’t disbelieve what Dean says but I have searched and can’t find it but I’ve never been particularly good at reading accounts.

Matt Traynor contributed this on another thread:

Re: Kings' Waterfront, the initial contribution from Everton was £30m, but by the time it was "take a shit or get off the pot", it had risen to £65m, and Everton were nowhere near raising the money, and lost their preferred bidder status.
There was also a strong likelihood that the £65m requirement would've increased.

Maybe someone should ask Paul Gregg if he was still ready to reverse mortgage that much... I doubt it.

AGMs reinstated at shareholders meeting
by Lyndon Lloyd | 26/06/2013 Comments (88) jump to end

Would send the link but just do not know how to.

My own view is that, if we have been relatively successful on the football side of things in relation to at least breaking even on player transfers over the last 16 years with healthy gates for most of that period, but even that has not been enough to cover the costs without selling off land etc. It’s probably true that it is not asset stripping as the accountants would define it but the board have sold off most of the family silver.

When there are no tangible assets to sell, how do we cope? We have to take out a loan every year to enable us to purchase players; if that loan is not forthcoming, we have to sell to buy. So far, you could argue that it has worked to an extent but, apart from paying the players and staff, what else has been achieved? Things may alter in our favour in the next couple of years but whatever we gain will also be gained by our rivals, that is the gripe that I have and why some of us feel that the board has generally let the club down as far as the bigger picture is concerned.

In baby language, we made a £28M profit last year so are £28M better off compared to the year before. (We started out having more libilities than assets; that is still the case today but the gap has reduced thanks to the £28M profit.)

The profit btw was 100% down to the increased TV money.

Why should we want better, a board with a plan to increase infrastructure, revenue streams and perhaps, I know this is crazy thought... even invest a pound or two of their own money to take us back challenging where we belong?

Everton are a massive club, one of the biggest around, a sleeping giant since the late 80s, but hey, let’s settle for mediocrity.

We have]no physical assets left now, so what happens the next time we need money? We don’t need Einstein on the forum to answer this one...

Also, without the extra revenue streams, as time goes by it will get harder and harder to attract players to us with us not being able to bid as much or compete with wages, as well as hold on to them, as they will get offered far larger wages elsewhere.

I do wish those that are critical of BK and the board and RM and the players would suggest what they would actually do if they had the reins. What actually would they do other than liquidate fixed assets to develop players and acquire younger players and develop and then sell later at a premium?

Only other option is to change the board... and replace with who? 85 per cent plus result in failure like even bankruptcy -- Leeds, Blackpool, Portsmouth, Blackburn et al.

Where is there another Man City or Chelsea oligarch???

So let's make our choice and stick with it!

Be careful what you wish for!

If he was the owner, we wouldn’t even have to question whether Stones will be here in 2 weeks time. He’d have us touring the USA every Summer along with all the major clubs, and would have us signing the biggest players in the world. Because, at the end of the day, that’s what the agents would care about and that’s what would get the players here.

So yes, I don’t have to like the owner. I don’t think City love their owners and agree with their political views. But they love the money they spend on their club and the world class players they’ve brought to a nice but destitute club.

Yes, they were exciting times in the 1960s; however, I remember the 1950s when we were relegated to the Second Division... Everton was not the glamour club and badly run, far worse than it is now. We did eventually get promotion to the First Division in 1954 by beating Oldham Athletic I believe in the last game of the season.

The games you enjoyed only came about after John Moores took over the club and started to buy players like Roy Vernon, Bobby Collins, Tommy Ring etc. Back then, I too took the train from Hamilton Square Station to Central Station and got the bus up to Goodison Park.

Maybe the situation at Everton now is history repeating itself...

Patrick #114, the issue with the Other Operating Costs is that they leapt in one single year by around £20 mn with no explanation and the fact that the chairman of a company has no clue where 35% of the company income is spent on.

Patrick #109, page 71 of the accounts under Current Assets, the figure for Debtors (people who owe us money) increased as did Cash in the bank, a combined total of £30 mn.

For anyone who is actually interested in Everton’s finances and the boards (and capable of understanding) recent performance, may I refer you to this independent and detailed assessment of our financial results.

http://swissramble.blogspot.ie/2014/12/everton-blue-sky-mining.html

What he doesn’t say though, Alex, is that this figure increased by £8M on the previous year. It seems that the more money we receive from Sky (£30M more than when we took out the initial £9M loan with Vibrac) the more we need to borrow at high interest rates.

My own memories come from the eighties, when we rose out of the ashes once more. Gates were low and everyone wanted change in the boardroom, and a different manager!

I remember reading an article about Everton’s game at Birmingham in the Mirror. The reporter wrote, "On the way to the game today, I am going to read Orwell's book, because 1984 has got to bring better times for Everton"!

We won the cup, and twelve months later, we was Champions of England, and won our only European trophy, even getting voted World Soccer Team of the Year.

This was achieved in the space of 18 months, but do you know what the best thing about it, was to me. We done it playing absolutely fearless football. We steamrolled teams. We done it the EVERTON WAY.

No matter how much Everton’s passionate following wants the club to return to its former glories, this will be virtually impossible unless there is a dramatic improvement in the financial position. The fans really do deserve better from the board: a clear, coherent strategy would be a step in the right direction.

We have sold players but we have also bought: Lukaku and McCarthy spring to mind. The value of our current squad is immeasurably bigger than previous squads. The age profile is younger. We’re not going to win the league but, as the Southampton game indicated, we will be better than last season.

Last season was disappointing, but the long-term stewardship and direction of the club has been excellent.

I am no more a fan of our chairman than I am of his chosen manager but I do support Martin Mason in his view that no malfeasance has occurred. The sale of assets has become necessary because of this regime's lack of vision and inability to devise and deliver an effective business plan.

When one of Bill's acolytes said "All the money has gone to Finch Farm," only the cynics could interpret that as implying it was all spent on lawnmowers and whitewash. A cursory glance at the accounts did, for many years, show that a ridiculous and high amount was being expended on staff and players WHO OPERATED FROM FINCH FARM.

That unsustainable approach is gradually being ameliorated by the massive increase in TV revenues and this alone may provide BB with a lucky and, perhaps, undeserved opportunity to avoid a meltdown.

A company director's fiduciary duty includes the responsibility to borrow money at the most competitive rate and the BVI loans have always seemed a little sniffy. However, if it is true that 'normal' banks would not take the risk, then so be it -- and a seat on the board may well have been a condition attaching to those loans. Who knows?

Of course, Bill loves -- absolutely loves -- being chairman and he milks his Everton mania for all it's worth. Were he a billionaire with the ability to invest, we'd all love him for it. The trouble is that he's a relative pauper who has only his enthusiasm to offer and has totally failed to offset that fact by surrounding himself with people of vision and business skills as per the Swansea model.

Survival is his game and, personally, I hope he does survive -- but only until an 'as well-meaning' but competent successor can be found. Soon.

May I be of assistance to you? In Tony Abraham’s post #96 in which he states "I saw Jay Wood wipe the floor with you on ToffeeWeb yesterday," you asked him in #98 "Tony, where did Jay Wood do that?"

I believe this is the thread Tony referred to, the 'Has Kenwright Given Up thread'

Link

Now, I'm too modest to say whether I wiped the floor with you, but anyone can read that you made 8 posts in a 30 hour period between Thursday and Friday on that thread. Just one day on I'm surprised you don't recall it.

I and others, including Eric Myles who has also responded to you in this particularly thread, challenged your original premise that basically stated Everton:

* has been in decline for 40-50 years now
* has sold assets to maintain our position in the top flight in the absence of any other income source "such as that enjoyed by the top clubs ... It is totally unrealistic to expect a club like EFC to develop a business model to achieve the income enjoyed by the top clubs" (your words in quotes).

Other posters besides Eric and I presented an eloquent, well-researched and well-presented riposte to your original and subsequent posts, which included you describing the club's most successful period in its history in the mid-80s as (your words again) "a statistical blip on a decline that's been going on effectively since the break-up of the wonderful 1970 side."

You subsequently offered a very selective interpretation of specific transfers out of the club, which again were well countered by others.

Why I am revisiting all that in this thread? For two very simple reasons:

1) In this very thread you ask questions of others to show examples of asset stripping and how any incoming board would improve our finances

2) You respond to Tony Abrahams telling him "rudeness isn't a substitute for answering the points I raised but easier I suppose"

1) is a legitimate question to ask, 2) is a reasonable request for courtesy.

However, given your evasiveness and rudeness on the 'Has Kenwright Given Up?' thread, I hope you'll forgive me for noting your apparent hypocrisy and contradiction, trying to position yourself as the voice of reason and moral superiority on this thread.

You were asked many legitimate questions on the earlier thread, for which you offered no answer. Instead, you resorted to this:

#183 "Jay@181 I'm sorry, I have a life to live. Perhaps when I'm struggling for sleep some time?"

Pot - Kettle - Black comes to mind.

On that thread, Jim Jennings #186 responded to you with: "That's a really pathetic response. It reminds me of someone who once said "I'm bored with your question" because said question exposed some uncomfortable truths."

Anthony Hawkins #188 wrote: "Martin Mason #185. Sorry to make this specific to you but you should stop to listen/read some of the longer posts above as it would provide you with a lot of insight and stop you spouting more nonsense."

You have a particular modus operandi Martin. You state your case which, when legitimately challenged, you consistently fail to respond to specific questions put to you, as in the earlier thread.

You compound this ignoring of hard questions on your position by introducing new or secondary topics and deflect the 'burden of proof' from yourself to others, insisting they respond to your questions whilst ignoring theirs. Oft times you ask them to prove a negative.

You further avoid hard questions by labelling others "rude" so you don't have to engage with them.

Your quoted post #183 above exposes your hypocrisy as you demonstrated in this thread how wobbly your own 'superior moral code' is in your post #101. Having pulled Tony up on what you perceive as his rudeness, you starkly tell him: "Tony, answer the question please and stop waffling." Tony's response to you showed the irony of your moral hypocrisy was not lost on him, even if it probably was on you.

More Pot – Kettle – Black, Martin.

Before the last 2 days I've never engaged with you Martin. I understand better now, given your hypocrisy, contradictions and the slight of hand you regular practice as demonstrated above, many people on TW don't find you very credible in what and how you post.

Most respectfully, yours ...

Jay.

The most expensive debt burden @8.8% interest INCREASED by 66%!!!

We sold players and had an excess of £28 mn from player trading (prior to summer purchases) for which the board claimed credit as "record profit"!!

And you consider that significant progress??

The film I was asking about at post 105, Dave, was "Midnight Run", and Martin without ever meeting him, definitely reminds me of "THE DUKE"!

Do they think Bill will resign? Who takes his place? How will the club be run etc. Are you expecting Bill to sell his shares? Presumably you want Elstone to resign as well?

Can you please give a cogent clear explanation of what will be put in place of what we already have and why it will be better?

'Who will replace the board?' and 'be careful what you wish for' are cries often heard during these debates.

Well on the one hand we have the BU who want the appointment of independent experts to attract buyers, perform due diligence and sell to the person that will provide for the best interests of the Club.

On the other hand we have the self proclaimed "best salesman if EFC" who has consistently failed in his approach and was entertaining selling to a bloke in a bedsit.

Who do you trust as the most capable party to find the correct buyer??

Eric, appreciating that you are on the button regards the debt increases, we discussed the real values of the players, rather than the values in the Accounts and I think you said the players are understated by £100M.

Just wondered again about this pesky Vibrac piece. If the Company is doing better than before and has been stabilised and the assets are increasing, based on the player valuations, which I am sure they will be insured for, then why don't the club refinance said loan facilities with a more mainstream Bank?