Moyes sacked by Real Sociedad

09/11/2015  131 Comments  [Jump to last]
Former Everton boss David Moyes has been sacked as manager of Real Sociedad after just one year in charge of the La Liga club.

Moyes oversaw a 12th-place finish last season after joining the Basque side last November but he has struggled to find the right formula this season and La Real are hovering above the relegation zone following four defeats in five league games.

The Scot found himself in a similar situation to his second full season at Goodison Park where dressing room problems and poor results saw the Blues battling against the drop for much of the campaign and then finish 17th.

He was able to turn things around from there, however, establishing the Blues as a regular top-eight side for the remainder of what ended up being an 11-year tenure.  


Reader Comments (131)

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Matt Traynor
2 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:24:36
I imagine a few people are hammering away at their keyboards to submit an article as to why Moyes should come back to Everton.

Time to take a hiatus from TW methinks.

Mark Riding
3 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:24:57
That's what you deserve for treating Everton with no respect and arranging the Man Utd job on the sly.

Half the lads on here would still have the fella back to replace Roberto as well.

Steve Durham
4 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:25:02
David Who?
Tommy Coleman
5 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:30:22
No surprise. I always said Everton would be the best job he ever had.
When is he off to Celtic?
Mark Tanton
7 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:34:36
As ever, I wish him well. Won't be long before he's back in the Premier League, I wouldn't think. Unless he fancies Fulham perhaps. He certainly won't be skint, I wish I could get sacked football manager style.
Winston Williamson
8 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:47:40
I think sometimes you can crave what you know and the relative security of respectable seventh place finishes. Especially after Roberto again fails to spot what actually makes his team play well and tinkers with a winning team...

But with Moyes you know that seventh is going to be it (on average)...and there's the bending over against the 'big' clubs...

I'd take Roberto over David and that's saying something!

Amit Vithlani
9 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:48:09
Although he put my nose out of joint with his behaviour in bidding for Baines, I have a little sympathy. Language was always going to be a barrier.

However, do not want to see him in the GP hotseat ever again, even in the future if Martinez is ousted. We have moved on.

Kristian Boyce
10 Posted 09/11/2015 at 16:52:51
David Moyes, the Jack Rodwell of football management.
Liam Reilly
11 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:02:22
Very disrespectful to the club at the end of his reign and immediately after he left. That soured it for me with Moyes.

Trevor Peers
12 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:04:52
Could he become an outcast at GP because of his behaviour at Man Utd, especially the remarks he made concerning Baines.

He probably regrets that now. But I doubt that he will ever be forgiven. He did a decent job for us, shame he screwed up.

Ian Hams
13 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:05:03
Hmm I wonder what the odds are for him to head home to Celtic now then??
Nick Entwistle
14 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:08:29
Leeds will need a manager in about 4 weeks time.
Ajay Gopal
15 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:13:36
Everton was the best thing that happened to Moyes, but he chose to dump us and move on to a 'bigger' stage. I am glad that he left when he did.

Martinez is criticised by many here (sometimes justifiably), but at least he brings enthusiasm and has a clear vision for Everton's future (building a team based on young talent) while being very respectful of the history of the club.

I can see Moyes becoming a TV pundit, nothing more.

Steavey Buckley
16 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:16:41
I do believe David Moyes made the same mistake as Howard Kendall, and moved to a Spanish Basque team, who are not top flight. Howard's stint was even worse, he could only sign local players.

Outside the Premier League, David Moyes should have looked for a top European club who had 'the cash to splash.' I do believe David Moyes was forced to look at bargain basement for players.

James Stewart
17 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:19:46
Short memories. Complete lack of respect from a lot on here. Yes the end was sour with Moyes but I don't forget what he did for this club. Steadied a very rocky ship, I grew up with Everton being serial relegation battlers year in year out. Moyes changed all that on a shoestring and even got us into the top 4, a even more herculean task then than it is now.

I have said it before on here but I will say it again, had Martinez taken us on when Moyes did there is no way we would have avoided relegation and kicked on in the way we did.

Moyes also deserves respect for trying another league, something most British managers are close minded about doing. He did beat Barca for them last season with a terrible squad so it wasn't all bad. I rank our transformation under Moyes as the greatest managerial achievement in Premier League history given the net spend per season he had. That comes from one of his biggest critics as well.

Patrick Murphy
18 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:31:53
I've never had a problem with David Moyes although not his biggest fan, I'll admit that overall he did a decent job for Everton FC. Given that he has been ousted from two positions since he left Goodison, shows that Everton FC are not the club some of us thought we were.

The man had eleven years... I'll say that again: ELEVEN YEARS at Goodison and, rightly or wrongly, the owners of Manchester United and Real Sociedad barely gave him 11 months. If United hadn't have come calling, our board wouldn't have got rid; he would still be at Goodison.

It bears thinking about and also raises the question: What will it take to remove any Everton manager from Goodison aside from the team occupying a place in the bottom three with a dozen or so games to go?

No wonder there is no urgency shown from the team on too many occasions as there's no pressure to go for three points when one will often suffice.

Brian Harrison
19 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:33:56
James (#16),

I agree with most of what you say; I can't think of a manager or player who would not want to sign for Man Utd. He couldn't turn it down, but I said at the time I remember what happened when they tried to replace Busby and I think the next 4 or 5 managers failed dismally.

I never believe in going back it hardly ever seems to work, but Moyes is a good manager and will do a very good job for another Premier League team. But I don't forget how he turned this club around from a perennial relegation team to one that was always around 4th to 7th.

Mike Gaynes
20 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:39:59
James Stewart #16,

>>"had Martinez taken us on when Moyes did there is no way we would have avoided relegation..."<<

Well, yes, because in 2002 when Moyes took over, Martinez was a 29-year-old Motherwell player. I get your point but it's a serious stretch.

Steavey (#15), good point about Mr. Kendall meeting the same fate in Spain. I did wish Moyes the best, but I would truly have been astonished if he had succeeded over there.

I'd also guess he's headed home to Scotland, but I doubt Celtic will be his next stop... League/Cup Champions rarely change managers, and they're coasting at the top again. Somewhere down the table maybe.

Sean Roberts
22 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:42:11
I can see Steve McClaren getting the boot pretty sharpish and David Moyes replacing him. Yes, it turned sour in the end between ourselves and Moyes but truth is he did a very good job for us. Anyone who watched us for any length of time pre-Moyes should recognise what he did for us. In my opinion of course!
David Hallwood
23 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:44:23
No, I wouldn't want him back; the Moyes era has gone, but I wish him well. Just to correct a few posters. He left us with our best wishes and was giving a standing ovation as thanks for making us the 'best of the rest' despite some of the football being anti-football, but there were also some great performances.

But as soon as he went to Man Utd and started to bid for Baines (nothing wrong in that), he started to diss the club and showed the class of a chav who's just won the lottery – shoulda went to Chelsea really.

However, he did bring the club forward and of our current best XI, seven of them are Moyes's players – not a bad legacy.

Martin O'Sullivan
24 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:46:17
My take on Moyes is that he did a fine job over the first five or six years, but the final years seemed like treading water for all concerned.

Absolutely shocked when he got the Man Utd job, which was evidently beyond his capabilities; before that, he appeared to be overlooked for the Spurs position and battling to get the coach's job at Schalke or that level of team.

I am not surprised at all he didn't see it out at Real Sociedad: managers are highly expendable in Spain. As for his failure to make any headway whatsoever with the Spanish language and his continued residency in a hotel in San Sebastian, these smack of a small-time, provincial outlook.

Terence Tipler
25 Posted 09/11/2015 at 17:46:18
He should have listened to his own advice when telling want-away players that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Karl Jones
26 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:00:56
He should have taken his own advice. How many times did he say "The grass isn't always greener with another club"? Remember Lescott, then Pienaar?...Ironic really.
Gavin Johnson
27 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:02:16
If you compare Moyes's move to the Basque country, there are parallels to HK. Both inherited teams near the top. Whist Bilbao were recently Champions, Real Sociedad had been playing Champions League just months before Moyes took the job.

Of course HK had the problem that he had to stick to the Basque only players rule. But he embraced the culture and the language. Moyes never learnt the language and his residence was still the hotel suite a year after getting the job. HK also finished as high as 4th whilst manager. On the other hand, Moyes's team sank like a stone.

I've used the parallel between the two because it illustrates what a great manager HK was. Moyes wasn't and isn't in the same league as Howard Kendall. Moyes for me, was always a poor man's Gordon Lee who dined out on finishing 4th. That finish was a complete anomaly and said more about the quality of the league that season than Moyes's management acumen.

The sacking also shows how far Moyes's star has fallen when even the Moyes's disciples on TW now treat any mention of him being reinstated as Everton manager as a joke.

Eugene Ruane
28 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:07:09
Open in departure lounge, Sociedad International airport.

Mr and Mrs Moyes sit in the Café Juan Nildown, dunking their Liptons breakfast tea-bags into cups of lukewarm water.

Morag: (narked) "A telt ye a hunerd times it wuz a mistake tae come here, but wud ye listen tae me? Wud ye hell! As per usual, you knew best"

DM: "Awright Morag, gi'it a rest wud ye, ahm feelin' bad enough as it is withoot mah own wife addin' tae the problemi"

Morag: "Ach stop yer whinin', it's alwez the same story wi you - 'puir me, puir wee Davey wants tae be left alone', well let me tell ye this, you'll be left alone awright, if ye think ahm folloyin' ye oot tae anymair god-forsaken shite-holes. Fer fuck's sake man, ye get sunstroke in Peebles but ye wanted tae live in Spain and 'experience a different culture.' Aye ye experienced it awright, sittin' in the hoose aw day wi' the curtains drawn, covered in gallons of after-sun"

DM: "Well...it'll no happen again that's fer sure, no' after this debacle and the Utd catastrophe. Right noo I'd be lucky tae get a job floggin' botulism burgers ootside fuckin' Goodison.

- Mobile rings -

Morag: "If it's the papers, say fuck awl!"

DM: (looks at phone and looks confused) "It's mah agent."

Morag: "Well answer it!!"

- He puts the phone to his ear and listens. After a couple of minutes, he puts the phone back in his pocket -

DM: (stunned) "He reckons Klopp is a cert to fuck up and get fucked awf, sez there's already mutterins coming fae they loyal kopites. He telt me tae sit tight fer a couple o' months and the job's as good as mine.......whit de ye think?"

Morag: "Ah fuckin' give up!! Whit did ah just say aboot god-forsaken shite-holes!?"

Up the Toffees!

Steve Guy
29 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:07:46
Never again should he darken our doors. He was a limited manager with a media inflated opinion of himself. Always putting this great club down (as punching above our weight). Don't even get me started about his exit.......

Colin Glassar
30 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:32:41
If he's not prepared to drop down to the Championship then he could become the worlds richest undertaker. He's got the personality for it.
Paul Hewitt
31 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:36:49
He's to miserable for that job Colin.
Danny O'Neill
32 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:36:59
I respect what Moyes did for us and defended him a lot over the earlier years as he did what he had to do and whilst I might not have liked it, I understood it. Already mentioned by many, the position he took us over compared to one he left cannot be disputed.

However, in my opinion, he should have adapted the style to suit the improvement in quality of player at his disposal in the last couple of seasons or he should have moved on. It's like he didn't know what to do with a better standard of footballer and lacked the belief that we were better and could do better.

My first real vocal turning point was when we bottled it against Liverpool in the semi-final; yes, cite Distin's mistake but having had the most average Liverpool team I'd seen at that point on the ropes, he settled for 1-0 and invited them on in true Moyes fashion.

He lost me with the Wigan quarter final; Wigan at home with what would have been Millwall beckoning in the semi. What an opportunity but we and he bottled the occasion again.

So, respect for what he did whilst at Everton, but the bloke is not a winner and thrived on being the underdog hence his obsession with playing down expectation. Unfortunately for him now, he will fall into that category of other English coaching "greats" of the modern era; Allardyce, Pulis, Hughes et al.

Terry Downes
33 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:47:35
At the end of the day, just another manager who thought he was better than he was?

What goes around comes around!

Kevin Elliott
34 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:55:47
Steve Guy. @25.
Totally agree mate... He's a prick.
Denis Richardson
35 Posted 09/11/2015 at 18:59:12
David Moyes 2002-2008 did a decent to great job to steady the ship.

David Moyes 2008-2013 should really never have been in the GP dug out.

He squeezed as much out of the club as he could signing a new 5-year deal in 2008, getting a mammoth pay rise that earnt him around £4m/year over 5 years (he was on £1.5m/year before that), ridiculously making him one of the top earners in the league on par with managers who had one league titles and Champions LeagueL trophies. This after having the nerve to say players earnt too much and should take a 20% pay cut!

For those last few years, he was just treading water, raking in the cash, hoping for a 'bigger club' to come round – remember the cringing Spurs episode? Those last few years were a joke and a complete waste of time for Everton fans, just waiting for his contract to run down so he could bugger off.

Not really surprised he got the sack at Sociedad, all his xmases came early when he got the Everton job. He's just a very average old-school manager who started to believe his own hype too much at the end of the day.

I won't hold any grudges but there is no way I want him back as our manager. He'll probably end up at Celtic or a mid to low prem club. He'd be good at a club like Sunderland, needing to grind our results to stay up, playing KITAP1.

Danny O'Neill
36 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:00:50
Quality Eugene!!
Andrew Clare
37 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:03:52
James Stewart (#15),

I grew with Everton constantly challenging for the title and playing the best football in the country. Moyes was a dead loss manager supported by a totally unambitious board. Mediocre beyond belief. Ambitious clubs do not keep these people for long.

Paul Jeronovich
38 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:13:02
The signings of Arteta, Cahill and Pienaar were the highlight of any of our teams under Moyes for me. To be fair after the drab early nineties he helped transform us back in to anything remotely like a decent football club.

Towards the end of his reign, I think he believed his own hype and acted like a prick towards the club. He looks a total failure now.

William Cartwright
39 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:13:08
Good observation, Patrick (#16), but it is an anomaly in itself. Sticking with a (good?) manager over a long period of time clearly has some benefits and some drawbacks. Similarly changing a manager at not too frequent intervals, also can be seen to have benefits and drawbacks too.

I think with Moyes it was generally understood as his time to go. Like most Evertonians (especially the older variety?) I was nervous as to what the future may bring. However the wonderful first season under Roberto was simply that; just wonderful. Stick or twist time could now be approaching. I think the results-driven approach will prevail.

I hope Roberto achieves success with us before he too eventually moves on. Credit to him for improving the squad, the PR outside perceptions of the Club, and the potential for improvement. I just wish he would try to make his own job easier, and improving the standing of the Club by not over-complicating the task. Give him some time say 1 - 2 seasons and if we are still treading water or slipping downwards then consider what is best for both parties.

If he were to leave then I wonder what the potential for Big Dunc would be in the hot seat. His general demeanor during his testimonial was first class...

One thing that is clear, Everton have a more stable, respectful approach to running their business than a lot of Clubs and that is another reason why I'm proud to be an Evertonian. COYB

Dave Abrahams
40 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:14:27
Eugene (24) that Morag sounds okay, too lively and too good for that miserable dour bastard though.
Danny O'Neill
41 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:22:03
Although, to be fair, Paul, he did sign Stones. Didn't use him – given he was a few years younger then – and I believe reading somewhere he had to be convinced as he didn't see it himself, but then suppose that's what advisors / scouts are for.
Paul Tran
42 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:23:23
Moyes did a good job for us. He was lucky to be preceded by some of the worst managers we've had, but all you can do is work with what you had and by and large he did it well.

He had limitations. I always felt he thought of us as the team he inherited rather than what we were going to be under him. Every year, the players looked leggy early in the season, as if they'd been over-trained. We'd languish in the bottom half before Christmas and then finish the season well, giving us hope for the next.

For all his defensive acumen, I lost count of the times we were one-up, sitting back in our box, when the equaliser would come.

Where we looked like we were really going to achieve something, he and his team collectively shat their pants and back we reverted to poor little Everton.

The fair person in me bemoans his luck in losing Yakubu, the one good striker he bought, and Arteta to injury. Looking back, I would loved to have seen Barry and Lukaku in a Moyes team.

For me, he was a good manager who did a good job in circumstances that couldn't have been better for him. His limitations were regularly exposed with us and at both teams he's managed since.

People who don't like Martinez and are knee jerking for Moyes's return, please remember why some of us wanted him out; please remember his lack of ideas regarding taking us forward; please remember his record when spending big money and be aware of the dearth of bargains around right now.

Good luck to the man but don't let him near Goodison!

Mick Quirke
43 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:31:45
Well said, James Stewart. He did a great job for us, but when he moved on it was right for both parties. Didn't do himself any favours pursuing Baines but he was stitched up at Utd and betrayed by senior players. Again he hadn't helped himself getting rid of all Ferguson's backroom staff.

He looked like a fish out of water in Spain. Neither he nor his assistant spoke Spanish and he just doesn't seem to have moved on tactically.

He would still be a fit at an aspiring Championship side like Fulham. Or even a Premier League side like Newcastle even if they didn't have such a scumbag chairman.

Don't feel too sorry for him as the two payoffs will have set him up for life, but I do wish him the best.

Anthony Jones
44 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:40:21
Found out.
Clive Rogers
45 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:45:36
I'd like to bet that if Moyes was still our manager Osman and Hibbert would still be on the books.

Hang on a minute.....

Ian Bennett
46 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:48:06
Knives to a gun fight, KITAP1, never winning at the top 4, blah blah blah.

Let's have it right, he turned this club from perennial laughing stock of Ginola and Co, scraping the bottom, to a side that never really fell out of the top 7 and usually finished best of the rest in 5th.

Gordon Lee maybe, but Gordon Lee had the deep pockets of John Moores, not the coppers from Kenwright. Well paid, he did alright.

Colin Glassar
47 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:54:03
Paul Tran, when you talk of his defensive acumen, I think a lot of that was down to Alan Irvine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our defence started to leak goals once Irvine left as Roundy was bloody useless.
Kunal Desai
48 Posted 09/11/2015 at 19:55:52
His stock has fallen catastrophically in just over 2 years. He went for the golden challenge and failed miserably and now he's been kicked to the park by a second-rate Spanish club. This is what happens when half decent owners recognise the short-comings of managers. Moyes was fortunate to be under no real pressure for 11 years.

I can see him managing in the Premier League but I can also see him under-performing and changing many clubs. He will never get that comfort zone again.

Ernie Baywood
49 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:08:20
He was great for us for many years. Probably stayed two or three years longer than we needed him and I wasn't disappointed in the least when he left.

I didn't like his transfer bids but he was Man Utd's manager and it was to be expected... the job he had then doesn't tarnish the job that he did for us.

Good luck to him. Personally I thought he would have been a great choice to stabilise Villa.

Joe McMahon
50 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:09:01
Patrick Murphy (16) - Absolutely spot on!
Mike Price
51 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:29:50
He's a PE teacher that got very lucky.

I pity the supporters of the club he turns up at next, he's an utter sham.

Jay Wood
52 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:44:28
Colin @ 40, I will correct you because you are wrong about Everton having a better defensive record under Moyes when Alan Irving was at the club.

Irving was Moyes's assistant for a couple of seasons between 2005-2007 before leaving to manage Preston. 2004-05 we conceded 46 in the league, 49 in 2005-06 and 36 in 2006-07. He joined Preston in November 2007, so he really can't be credited with the best defensive record under Moyes's tenure when we let in just 33 goals in the the 2007-08 season.

As many have fairly alluded to, Moyes did a magnificent rebuilding job at the club, long reduced to squads of aging players and teetering on the cusp of relegation. Martinez inherited a much healthier club and a considerably stronger squad than the one Moyes took over from Walter.

I am grateful to Moyes and acknowledge the excellent work he did at the club. That said, his early utterances as Manure's manager directed towards Everton were offensive and ill-considered. No way should he ever again be given any sort of role within the Everton set up.

Paul Tran
53 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:47:42
Sorry, Colin, I meant to say 'defensive acumen'.

I keep hearing how marvellous our defence was under Moyes. Yes, they were well-drilled at set-pieces and we could do with plenty of that now, but I was never confident in us seeing games out.

I'm not interested in whether he's better than Martinez or not. I didn't think he was going to take us forward anymore and I'm not sure whether Martinez will.

The only thing that nearly frightened me more than Martinez's performance last season was people coming on here desperate for the likes of Pulis, Sherwood, Allardyce and Moyes to come in and 'save us'

Andy Crooks
54 Posted 09/11/2015 at 20:59:08
Great stuff, Eugene. These Moyes pieces should be collected.
Darryl Ritchie
55 Posted 09/11/2015 at 21:47:56
He will probably find his way back to the Premier League, sooner or later, but when I think about the qualities he brings to the table as a manager, I honestly believe he would be perfect for the Championship.

He's a solid, if not too creative in the tactics department. He's a proven ship steadier. He has a good eye for bargain talent. He would have to take a bit of a pay cut, but he must have enough socked away by now to last him a few years.

Danny Broderick
56 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:08:14
Moyes was very good for Everton. He was very good at what he did - producing a solid, efficient team. His record in the transfer market was better than most of his peers. I also believe he is a good man.

However, I believe he had taken us as far as he could. I think he had an inferiority complex when it came to the top 4, and I don't think he would ever have taken the hand brake off to allow us to reach the next level.

I believe that, in time, he will regret how Man United came in with derisory bids for Baines and Fellaini. I don't think he was helped by having a novice Chief Executive trying to bring in players for the smallest possible outlay, hence the bids we initially received. His comments didn't help.

However, with a lot of water under the bridge, I can now see he did far more good at Everton than bad. He took us as far as he could, but I hold nothing against him now. I loved seeing him struggle at United initially, because I was also a bit aggrieved that we got no compensation for him. He allowed his own contract to run down. But time moves on, and he would be a good boss for any number of teams in the Prem who are looking for a solid, unspectacular coach.

Paul Hewitt
57 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:11:41
Although Moyes did stay longer than he should, there is no denying he was good for the club. The period under Walter Smith was dire and embarrassing for this great club. Any half-decent player was sold and replaced with old has-beens (Gazza, Ginola). Moyes changed that, got rid of the deadwood, and brought in young hungry players.

A lot of his signings were good and some sold for big profit. We were solid defensively for the most part and the players know thier roles.

Yes, he had his faults: negative against the Big Boys but we were regularly in the top 6 or 7. Better than the previous manager.

Brent Stephens
58 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:15:56
He brought us on – satisfaction.

Then he could take us no further – disappointment.

Then he did the dirty on us – felt let down.

Then Man Utd did the dirty on him – felt no particular satisfaction nor disappointment.

Then he found a job with Sociedad – felt no resentment.

Then he couldn't take Sociedad anywhere and was ditched – I don't bear grudges forever and a day, so can empathise with his disappointment.

Now I hope he finds some satisfaction elsewhere.
Andrew James
59 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:25:17
I think some are conveniently re-writing history here. Yes, his downfall in two and a half years has been spectacular. But he did save Sociedad from relegation which they looked doomed to. He also saved us in the same way.

He led us to 4th, consistent top 6 or 5 finishes when spending far less than our competitors. We went to 3 semi finals and one final.

Yes we lost to our adorable neighbours at Wembley but he could never have anticipated Distin's error. Yes we collapsed against our current manager's Wigan but I still maintain that the officials failed us that day for the first goal, Phil Neville retired on the pitch and their body language that day suggests they knew Moyes was Utd bound. They were that listless.

So, while I don't think he should ever come back, I do wince when I see him get fired twice in 18 months.

Let's remember there were some very enjoyable times with him at the helm and we could holds our head up high.

As for Martinez....it's still a work in progress....if I'm still saying that in a years time I think it would be time we looked elsewhere. Remember Moyes finished 4th in his 3rd season and with a squad much poorer than our current squad and in a tougher league where the top 4 were troubling the higher stages of the Champions League.

Colin Leckey
60 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:25:48
Unbelievable the critics on here. Do you remember the decade before he joined, when we finished in the top 10 once in ten years, and very nearly went down twice? Then, on exactly the same budget, he turned us into top 7 finishers year in year out for a decade, and European regulars.

Yes, he was disrespectful over the Baines and Fellaini thing, and I'm sure he probably regrets that now. But let's not pillory him forever. He achieved a huge amount on a limited budget.

Chris Corn
61 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:30:10
I think the fact Bilbao sent three reps to HK's funeral tells it's own story about the comparative records of both managers.

To be honest I used to resent the fact that plenty of posters on here in the past compared both managers and even had the gall to tout DM as the better man cos 'football had changed' since Kendall's day. It has probably tainted my view of him, but what he did was nothing less than acceptable seeing as he earned the best part of £30m whilst in charge.

He lost every game of magnitude except the 2009 semi, and that includes some mediocre foreign opposition who didn't have the wage bills we had.

He also constantly gave the impression we were lucky to have him, whilst constantly defending the position of the board. For me, he was lucky to have us, and his luck seems to have run out.

Paul Doyle
62 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:31:45
On the cards from day one. Smug bastard thought he was "top dog" sloping off to meet Fergie in his dungarees on his day off (his words) while "Hen" was in the car supping Tizer.

The Ginger One thought he was too big for us... how wrong he was!

I believe there is a vacancy at Sharm-el-Sheik Rovers in the Lower Isis Pyramid 7 league... Put him on the next flight out there, and send his top four Arran cardigans with him.

We wouldn't be that lucky, he'll probably end up at the Toon on top dollar, working his over-rated ego at an over-rated gaff.

Patrick Murphy
63 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:50:35
Andrew (#50)

You wrote "We went to 3 semi finals and one final" indeed we did and apart from a penalty shoot-out victory against an understrength United, we never saw a winning goal for Everton in any of them.

Moyes did do a good job up until about 2009, but he has never been a winner, he will probably always keep his teams in their division and might even get them knocking on the door of the top six, but he'll never be a winner unless he allows his teams to become more adventurous.

At any other period during Everton's history, he would have lasted four years at best, same as the guy who is in charge today, who will likely be here for half-a-decade at least.

John Daley
65 Posted 09/11/2015 at 22:56:14
I kind of wish I could feel some sympathy for him but I really don't. It's a case of 'he made his own bed..' in my opinion. I couldn't even feel sorry for him now if he spent the rest of his days wandering from place to place with the theme tune from The Incredible Hulk constantly playing in the background. Although, the Moyes version would probably be titled The Predictable Sulk:

[V.O: Señor David Moyes. Tactician. Scientist. Scottish. Searching for a way to tap into the hidden strengths all managerial mavericks possess. Then an accidental overdose of presbyterian radiation radically alters his body chemistry. And now, whenever David Moyes grows angry, outraged, or even slightly perturbed, a startling metamorphosis occurs.

[CLOSE UP OF MOYES. HIS PUPILS WIDENING AND HIM CLEARLY GETTING A MASSIVE TITTY LIP ON]

The creature is driven by caution and pursued by a slightly insensitive reporter:

Reporter: "So David, career's gone down the shitter a bit since you left Everton, hasn't it?"

Moyes: "Dinnie make me awl defensive, ken? You winnie like me when I've goan awl defensive."

The creature is wanted for career suicide he didn't wilfully commit. The fabled 'Moyesiah' is believed to be dead.... and he must let the footballing world continue to think that he is dead....until he can find a way to quell the dour minge that dwells within him".

-----------------------

This week's episode: Moyes audition for The Apprentice:


"Remember now, this is your big opportunity to sell yourself. So, with that in mind, which of your past achievements simply scream 'Lord Sugar's new business partner... BITCH!'. Wow me."

"Ach, ah've doan well tae get where ah ah'm, with the resources ah had available tae me, ah suppose.

I mean, they wee jams and marmalades they had me selling winnie the best but I managed tae floag enough tae consistently finish in the toap six salesman in oor office. That's toap six if we're strictly limiting it tae preserves and no condiments in general, ken?"

"Err...ok. Now you clearly must have great confidence in making it to the final stages of the show if you're prepared to step straight off your current upward career trajectory and risk everything on...."

"Can I just stoap you there, hen? I dinnie want tae make oot like it was awl ay bed ay roses wi my last employah. There was plentae ay adversity ah had tae overcome. At one point they wanted tae gie me a promoyshon and switch me oan to the team selling smoothies and they trendy yoghurt drinks. Now, they're no real drinks tae me, but I was prepared to gie it a reet good go and try and smash that glass (jam jar shaped) ceiling. Then I realised it was a nay win situayshon cause it meant me coampetin fir clients wi Geoff Frothsperm froam the second floah!! Geoff Frothsperm? Wi his smart suits, fancy Apple Watch and Hugh Grant hayer?!? Against me, with ma stay-creased action slacks, plassy casio and greying copper joab oan top? It's like taking a fookin carton of 'Laughing Cow' to a bullfight. Ah'm telling ya, I woulda been lucky tae get oot of their alive".

"Riiiight. Understood. Now...err...excuse me a second [cough, cough]. Now...erm...What would be your winning strategy to leave all other candidates trailing in your wake?"

"Having gein it soam serious coansideration, ah'd proablee bunker doon and focus oan securing what ah've got. Keep a tight ship and no start getting aheed oaf myself, like. If ah was gein five hundred poonds to go out and buy ingredients for a food staw as part of ay task, I'd proablee just keep ahold ay the money, tae be honest. Secure it in mae man-bag and just tell any hungry punters tae fuck oaf cause there isnae any food today. Five hundred poonds is five hundred poonds and ah'm no having Davie Moyes getting a reputayshun as being frivolous with other peoples money. Ya can foaget that fae a game o' soldiers ah'm telling yae".

[Cut to Señor David Moyes once again walking down an abandoned high way, massive Umbro bag slung over his shoulders, staring mournfully into the distance as the mournful piano music from The Incredible Hulk starts to play].

Not even then.

Tom Bowers
66 Posted 09/11/2015 at 23:10:10
Like any other job, if you do well you get the praise and maybe a raise.

However, as a football manager you only get so long and then depending on the controlling power at the top you can find yourself out on your ear very quickly as Moyes has found out at Manure and Sociedad and a few others at Leeds (6 managers in 2 years).

He got an extension at Everton early on based on the fact that Everton had some pretty awful managers before him and of course a benevolent Bill Kenwright.

He does have some quality and I am sure he will be back in the Premier League soon.

Nick Armitage
67 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:06:32
Arrogant to think his limited run harder style of management was going to cut any mustard in La Liga.

As long as it isn't Goodison, I don't give two shits where he ends up.

Brian Denton
68 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:09:48
John (55), you're good kid but you're no Eugene...

The Moyes Family Holiday (written when Moyes was still in situ) still makes me smile now.

Andy Crooks
69 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:21:06
Colin (#51), Moyes did not have "exactly the same budget", as Walter Smith, nowhere near it. He spent much more. However, that is not to decry his achievements. In my view he was excellent in transfers and when he got it wrong, he dealt with it.

I always thought that Everton was as good as it would ever get for him, great job with absolutely no pressure. Well, he gave it a go elsewhere as I suppose he had to.

I still believe he let us down with the manner of his departure and I think his time might have gone. Winning promotion or staving off relegation seems to me to be his future.

Andy Crooks
70 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:23:14
Brilliant, John.
Victor Jones
71 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:33:48
Moyes was never a manager. He was lucky to get 11 years at Everton. And yes we won a few games with him at the helm. But by Christ some( most) of his brand of football was dire. He should have been sacked numerous times. We have not got the time or inclination to go over all his disasters . There are far to many.

He was a bloody awful manager. Just think how Everton might have fared with a Harry Redknapp or a Martin O'Neil. Or anybody. But no. We plodded on with Moyes.

And we will now plod on with Mr Martinez. Is he the man to bring success to Everton? And will he balls everything up for another 11 years before someone catches on he is not the man for the job. I am not sure about Martinez. I am really not that convinced by what he is trying to do. And I give up completely on what Moyes was trying to do. 4-5-1 every bloody match.

And it is not all to do with money. Leicester City have built a good-on-the-eye team. So have Southampton. As has Palace. And West Ham are looking good. Add Spurs to that list. Point is, I would love to see Everton play a free flowing easy-on-the-eye game. Our last two managers have fallen short. We always seem to be short of something. We have the players, so I have to blame the managers. And the board for their lack of vision.

Colin Gee
72 Posted 10/11/2015 at 00:37:22
Moyes did sign John Stones so we should be thankful to him for that.

As others have said, the semi-final against the RS and quarter-final against Wigan was where he lost the fans. Although to our credit there was no chanting of "Moyes Out".

Matt Traynor
73 Posted 10/11/2015 at 02:21:27
Colin (#61), there's a school of thought suggesting that Stones was signed on Martinez's direction (he was on his way to Wigan when he did an about turn and went to Finch Farm).

Fergie did say in his autobiography that the Moyes to Man Utd deal was done in mid-December 2012.

I'm not sure if that's a conspiracy theory too far. It would mean BK was complicit. But there was so little discussion about Moyes's contract expiring in the media you begin to wonder.

I don't think Stones so much as appeared on a bench during that 6-month spell, yet Martinez brought him straight into the first team squad.

Like I said, I'm not sure I buy it. But as recent events in the IAAF are showing us, sport and money are not good bedfellows, and all sorts of underhand stuff goes on. Our recently passed former manager was one of the rarities – a true gent within the game.

Mark Stone
74 Posted 10/11/2015 at 03:56:02
Bit harsh to say David Moyes 2008-2013 should really never have been in the GP dug out. In 2008 we finished 5th our highest ever points total under Moyes (65). We should have then sacked him???

In 2009 we finished 5th in the league again with our 2nd highest points total under Moyes (63 points). Given that we also got to an FA Cup Final you could argue that was our best season since 2004-05. How do you justify sacking your manager then?

Last season we finished 11th on 47 points. Our worst season since 2003-04.

Is treading water worse than going backwards?

Paul Kelly
75 Posted 10/11/2015 at 04:08:48
I'm going to sit on the fence with this one.

Ha, made up, pissed myself laughing when I found out about the disrespectful shite. No sympathy whatsoever. Ha.

Mark Stone
76 Posted 10/11/2015 at 04:44:12
Patrick (#54), at any other period during Everton's history he would have been competing on a more level playing field.

Has there ever been a time where five teams are splashing out either double (Liverpool, Arsenal) or nearly triple what we do in annual salaries (Chelsea, both Manchester clubs)? Not to mention transfer fees!

Has there ever before been a situation where these clubs could afford not only to scour the best players from all around the world, but also to stockpile the next best to prevent having to play against them?

I'm sorry, but if you sack a manager for finishing between 5th - 7th in this league every year with a salary limit around 㿭m salary cap, you are deluded.

Steve Brown
77 Posted 10/11/2015 at 06:51:40
Eugene @ 25, hilarious! You are our ToffeeWeb poet laureate and Monty Python rolled into one. When is the next episode of "Moyesy" coming out?
Steve Brown
78 Posted 10/11/2015 at 06:57:21
Colin @27, another classic comment. If Eugene's sitcom gets commissioned (which it surely must), then Richard Wilson with a ginger toupe must play the lead role. Although the spirit of Moysey's experiences at Sociedad have already been captured in the Xmas episode of One Foot in the Grave where Victor Meldrew goes on holiday to Spain.
Steve Brown
79 Posted 10/11/2015 at 07:04:16
Seriously though, Moyes never learns. His answer to understanding the technical nuances of coaching in Spain, the regional language, culture and social nuances was to appoint Billy McKinley. He was dead in the water from the moment he brought in Steve Round and gang into Man Utd and sacked the coaching staff.

Can't change his approach – stubborn, stupid, arrogant? All three? He should have left Everton after the 2009 Cup Final, because it was at that point where he began to think he was bigger than the club. He wasn't, as the events of the last two years proved.

Rob Hooton
80 Posted 10/11/2015 at 08:26:13
Eugene and John you should ghost write Moyes new Biography - 'Doon an oot' or something like that, had me in stitches on the train!

Thanks Dave... but no thanks.

Kevin Tully
81 Posted 10/11/2015 at 08:45:50
No man more deserving of a statue, you ungrateful bastards. Moyes & Bill holding aloft "The Magnificent 7th" DVD the club released. Right next to Dixie would be a fitting tribute to the two great men who saved us from plying our trade in the Conference.
Anto Byrne
82 Posted 10/11/2015 at 09:57:06
The thought of Moyes coming back to Everton really sickens me. I think he would do well at a Leeds or Newcastle type club. He could build a solid foundation and get them mid-table security, perhaps get to a cup final or get into the Europa League... even scrape a 4th place with a negative goal difference.

He certainly has a few records he can better: most draws in a season, lowest ever points tally, lowest ever goals tally, most consecutive games without a win. He also has his penknife to take to those big games. Of course he has also managed two of the greatest clubs on the planet.

Paul Cherrington
83 Posted 10/11/2015 at 11:15:06
I always have and always will like Moyes – he did a fantastic job for us and is a good manager. I actually like the fact he's a bit miserable compared to the happy clappy Hare Krishna bollocks we put up with now.
Tony J Williams
84 Posted 10/11/2015 at 12:45:46
I wonder what Mike Walker is doing now?

Seems that we have a thing about bad news for previous managers.

He was good with us and then turned into a prick when he went.

Shafted by Man U players the way Old Woy was shafted by the Shite players. Not that I was arsed either way.

He was a good manager but not good enough.

The same as Martinez is a good manager but I can't see us winning anything with him even though he has probably our best squad in decades.

Trevor Lynes
86 Posted 10/11/2015 at 15:18:14
He had taken us as far as he could and was probably frustrated by the lack of financial support during the time he was with us. He actually did a good job and I always thought of him like Old Mother Hubbard.

He left the safest job in football when he moved to UTD but his head was probably turned by Fergie in the same way that Rooney was turned by fellow England players from UTD.

I do not want him back though, but all the best in his next assignment !

Steve Guy
87 Posted 10/11/2015 at 15:32:21
Colin (#57) and others.

Yes, I remember the years before Moyes... when we won the FA Cup as rank outsiders under Joe Royle, a manager who built a team that believed it could move mountains – not one that took knives to gunfights. Mixed metaphors but hopefully you get the point.

Moyes is driven by fear of success not fear of failure and it will always hold him back.

Philip Yensen
89 Posted 10/11/2015 at 16:51:33
Well, Mr Moyes, as you preached on several occasions, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

At Everton you built a strong and difficult team to beat. And at times we played some great football too (not all fans agree). Man Utd and Real Soceidad needed re-shaping and rebuilding time was never going to be on your side. The poisoned chalice of Fergie and the impatience of the Spanish was always a no-go situation.

We won't be too sad for you as you have had a few big payouts for being sacked. I see your future dropping a division and rebuilding a team. Good luck Dave, but remember about the GRASS!

James Marshall
90 Posted 10/11/2015 at 16:56:20
I don't understand the bad feeling towards Moyes. He did a lot for our club, and people should be thankful.

End of story.

I wish him well, and have absolutely nothing against the man on any level.

Jamie Barlow
91 Posted 10/11/2015 at 17:21:48
James, there are plenty on here who would have sent Moyes away with the best of wishes if he had left the club under normal circumstances. It's the underhand way he left Everton that leaves a sour taste. I couldn't really give a shite about the man and haven't done since he walked away.
Tony J Williams
92 Posted 10/11/2015 at 17:26:05
It's not even so much the way he left Jamie, it's the way he turned into an absolute prick at Man Utd and tried to pilfer our two best players with shitty offers.

He backed up that pricky attitude with stating he would have let them go if he was still here.

After that, there was definitely no going back for him.

Darren Hind
93 Posted 10/11/2015 at 17:39:32
Richest failure in sport
Mike Gaynes
94 Posted 10/11/2015 at 18:07:03
The Echo has posted an interesting collection of opinions on Moyes, with no total raves or blanket condemnations... more of an emphasis on balanced views of his strengths and weaknesses.

"Cahill, Jagielka, Arteta, Pienaar,Lescott, Mirallas, Stones, Baines, Coleman, Naismith - say what you want about Moyes he could spot a player at the right price and improve them 100%."

"...didn't record a single league away win against Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal in 44 attempts."

I'm in the camp with the folks who believe his tenure was more positive than negative, but that last statistic is just plain ugly.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/david-Moyes-reaction-he-deserved-10419354

Mike Hughes
95 Posted 10/11/2015 at 18:08:30
Nothing against Moyes and not going to lose any sleep over him.
He did a good job with us for about 6 years but things really did get stale. He left on a sour note which will ensure (thankfully) he won't be heading back our way any time soon.

That his era was marked as successful (by the wider football world I'd speculate) is more telling of where we are as a club. The highpoint of his 11 years was qualifying for the Champions League, albeit with an ill-fated campaign largely scuppered by that crook Collina.< (Actually, the highpoint for me was stuffing the RS 3-0.)

However, in the 11 years prior to his arrival, we only won one trophy – the FA Cup (and had a couple of very near misses in the relegation fight) so there was the marker.

As Patrick (#16) alludes to, our lack of ambition is sobering. The longest serving top flight club with a 137-year or so history. For the last 28 of those years (the last 20% of our entire history) we have won only 1 trophy.

That's why EFC fielding weakened sides in the League Cup really pisses me off. (Guess which side have won that competition the most times if you think it's not worth bothering about).

It's also why our inertia in re-developing GP to bring in more revenue is so infuriatingly typical of our club. (All this new ground stuff is smoke and mirrors.)

Moyes's longevity at EFC (while not without its merits) was simply a symptom of a more deep-rooted malaise at EFC, one that goes back years.

Marketing slogans like 'It's in our DNA' can sadly be read in more ways than I think they are intended.

Colin Glassar
96 Posted 10/11/2015 at 20:32:31
I read a great article in The Guardian today about how he messed up this opportunity. He didn't bother to learn the lingo, he returned to the UK at every opportunity, he lived in a hotel, didn't make friends in or outside of the club, the players didn't understand him or his tactics etc......

The final nail in the coffin was his constant whinging about not finding any deep fried Mars Bars in San Sebastian and their total ignorance of the culinary delights of haggis, chips and baked beans swigged!! That was it for the Basques and the end for El Gingerrrr.

Andy Crooks
97 Posted 10/11/2015 at 21:25:15
James (#84),

David Moyes did good things for our club, no doubt. I believe he was astute in the transfer market and he kept us safe. However, I think he was in awe of what he perceived as bigger clubs. I think he served up, at times, some of the most turgid football I have ever witnessed; he was tactically unimaginative and, for the last few years of his reign, was poor. The way he left was very badly handled and I feel he was disrespectful of our club.

The way he held off on signing his final contract was also poorly done, suggesting greed or waiting for a better offer. He was a hired hand who, in my view, fundamentally did not get Everton.

Martinez, and I have grave reservations about him, seems to get it. He seems to feel blessed to be here.

James, do you believe that Moyes, short of going to Scotland, will ever win a trophy? He will keep you safe, not rock the boat and achieve that most magnificent of balances; keep the fans sweet, keep the chairman sweet and create the illusion that good times are just around the corner.

In my view, his failure in Spain is down to what Eugene and John have brilliantly lampooned.

Ian Riley
98 Posted 10/11/2015 at 21:32:28
Colin, if that is all true then he has no one to blame but himself! Real Sociedad are not going to allow the style of football he produces. Our club allowed it because we were in the Premier League and fans turned up.

Our football under Moyes was that of the Championship! What kept us in the league was Premier League players. I never thought he could take us to the next level based on the one style of football.

I was one of his biggest fans based on the money spent on players but the respect he showed us on leaving was appalling. I do think he will do a good job at a club like Blackburn. This is a club with a low budget and low expectations.

Mr Moyes you need to remove your ego and get back to basics of football management that made you a good manager at Preston and Everton.

Mark Stone
99 Posted 10/11/2015 at 21:36:02
Steve Guy, that was 7 years before Moyes, by which time we'd only been shit for a couple of years. Do you remember 96-02?
Jimmy-Ã…ge Sørheim
100 Posted 10/11/2015 at 22:01:25
I am pleased to see I was right about Moyes growing stale, and I still think he stayed here too long and lost the joy of football after having to constantly sell his best players.

I just think he stayed too long and now he needs to start over at a lower league club, or do something to get that passion back.

Mike Hughes
101 Posted 10/11/2015 at 22:06:34
Andy (#91),

'He (DM) was a hired hand who, in my view, fundamentally did not get Everton. Martinez, and I have grave reservations about him, seems to get it. He seems to feel blessed to be here.'

I don't agree with your comment that DM didn't get us while RM does. I think they're just fundamentally different characters / personalities.

I can't see RM lasting half as long as Moyes did here. I hope he wins some silverware (beyond the Fair Play Award or Manager of The Month for winning 4 on the bounce) and proves me wrong.

The key difference between the two for me on the evidence to date:-

Moyes developed (some) players and the team - (e.g. the 4-5-1 system was successful for a while, Coleman, Carsley, Cahill, Baines, wingback play.)

Can we honestly say that RM is developing players and the team at present? (Admittedly an unfair comparison given different length of tenures but all the evidence we have to go on. Who has improved as a player, aside from perhaps Galloway?)

Regarding RM seeming to be 'blessed' here, he should do having just taken Wigan down. Blessed? He must have gone from atheist to Born Again overnight.

Obviously I hope RM succeeds. But I'm hopeful rather than confident at the moment. While Moyes outstayed his welcome, I was confident rather than hopeful in the first few seasons under him.

Eugene Ruane
102 Posted 10/11/2015 at 22:33:15
Colin (90) – I read that piece in the Guardian and it felt a little... odd.

The reason being that as much as I have (mainly for comic purposes) portrayed him as a 'dooer' imagination-free Presbyterian, reading the article, my exaggerated version actually didn't seem that far from the reality.

In fact at one point, I almost felt sorry for Davey no-mates, described wandering about the streets of Spain on his Jack, having failed to learn enough Spanish to ask 'Do you sell shortbread?'

Then I remembered the £20 - 30 million we paid him for not getting us relegated and him trying to take Baines and Fellaini for fuck-all... and thought: 'Fuck you, miserable arse.'

Darren Hind
104 Posted 11/11/2015 at 03:06:58
I find it strange that people try to big Martinez up claiming Moyes never won at a top 4 side... So when did Martinez get even close to doing it? His record is even more embarrassing.

We won at OT beating a very very ordinary Man Utd at a time when seemingly everyone was winning there. They were nowhere near top four.

I didn't think TGT's record could get any worse, but Martinez has managed it. His record at the grounds of teams who have finished top 4 is absolutely abysmal.

Frying pan / Fire

Gavin Johnson
105 Posted 11/11/2015 at 06:08:44
You're completely right, Darren. But to be fair to Martinez, he's only been Everton manager for a couple of seasons compared to Moyes being in the job for over a decade.
Peter Barry
106 Posted 11/11/2015 at 06:49:21
Tactically Inept, Dire, Dour, Depressing, Defensive, Davey will always struggle to keep his job unless he can find another fool like Boys Pen Billy Liar to protect him.
Peter Barry
107 Posted 11/11/2015 at 06:52:58
Sorry forgot one other 'D' and a very important one DECEITFUL.
Paul Andrews
108 Posted 11/11/2015 at 07:05:00
Martinez may end up with as bad a record against the top 4 sides as Moyes.

We will know after he has played 44 away games against top 4....

44 games against Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.

James Marshall
109 Posted 11/11/2015 at 07:26:17
Andy (#91),

I don't disagree with you. I also don't think Moyes was or is the greatest manager out there – I certainly don't want him back.

I do remember feeling (often) that he had brought back some stability and respectability to following Everton for me, which I will always be grateful for.

Maybe I prefer to concentrate on what he did while things were good, before the last 18 months and the way he left.

Moyes gave us 11 years of his career, which should be respected in my view. He worked hard for our club, and whether he left under a cloud or not, is in my view overshadowed by the positive effect he had longer term.

I"m not the type of person who gets hung up on players/managers leaving (how dare they!) Everton when they feel the time is right.

People come and go, it's only us that are the lifers.

Colin Glassar
111 Posted 11/11/2015 at 07:57:55
Eugene, he was usually seen in old San Sebastian, on his tod, hands in pockets, head down, whistling 'Loch Lomond' with a three-day old copy of the Daily Mirror under his arm.

He was often followed on his sojourns by the local street urchins of San Sebastian who would holler, "Señor Moyes, Señor Moyes, como estas?" To which old ginger would reply, "Oh aye, nae bad, bonjour kiddos. Viva Espana". Not the cleverest thing to say to the Basques...

Sam Hoare
112 Posted 11/11/2015 at 09:05:07
I still have an admiration for Moyes and the progress we made in his tenure.

The biggest issue perhaps was that this progress halted after six or so years when we hit the glass ceiling of 5th/6th. Many on here bemoaned his ability to push beyond this though his successor shows little of finishing higher. The reality is that there are probably few if any managers who could have had us in the top 4 consistently given the relative resources of the competition.

Moyes was a good organiser, suited to the British game one suspects and to a team with limited resources and expectations.

Surely a shoo-in for Celtic (the easiest manager's job in the world)?

Geoff Risebrow
113 Posted 11/11/2015 at 12:33:06
David Moyes did a magnificent job at Everton. Just remember how bad a team we had when he took over from Walter Smith and then remember the team we had when he left us.

The way he conducted himself when he came in for Baines and Fellaini was a total disgrace and I lost a lot of respect for him over that, bearing in mind what he had said about Mark Hughes' pursuit of Lescott but I am not going to forget what he did for our club.
Liam Reilly
114 Posted 11/11/2015 at 15:40:45
Even if he got Celtic, Sam, he'd probably start the season with the first target of avoiding relegation.

He'd then find someway of bigging up Aberdeen and for sure being on the receiving end of a good thrashing at at least once a season.

Darren Hind
115 Posted 11/11/2015 at 19:25:35
For the first 5-6 years of Moyes's tenure, he was putting up players worth about 30 bob against the likes of Giggs, Zola, Bergkamp, Nan Nistelerooy, Gerrard... world class players.

As his team progressed, he did start to have a go, We were robbed of victory at OT (Anichebe penalty) Anfield (Distins goal) Arsenal (poxy deflected last gasp equalizer after Pienaar put us in front. We score three at Chelsea, Three at WHL and four at Old Trafford. We also beat teams in the top four – contrary to the silly claims made by people trying to excuse Martinez's shameful record.
Was TGT's record bad? Fucking right it was, but, there were flickers... Martinez has been just plain embarrassing. On 15 occasions he has been taken squads worth around £200M to top six teams and unless we have fallen behind we have hardly mustered a shot worthy of the name.

Moyes was a twat for taking his knife to the gun fights. Martinez is if anything an even bigger twat for bringing his pea shooter.

Pair of twats - frying pan/fire

Eugene Ruane
116 Posted 11/11/2015 at 21:26:50
Chortle.

Link

Colin Gee
117 Posted 11/11/2015 at 22:34:25
Paul (#101), Martinez's record for Everton currently stands at 1 win in 9 away games against the 'big 4'

So that's one win in 53 games away at the 'big 4' does any other club have such a bad record?

One for the stattos, has any club apart from Everton not won an away game at the Emirates, Stamford Bridge or the cabbage patch across the park this century?

Brian Denton
118 Posted 12/11/2015 at 00:52:31
Darren (107), so what you are saying is that Martinez's record against the Sky 4 is actually WORSE than Moyes's (a knife at a gunfight presumably being more use than a pea-shooter)?

Don't see that myself.

Paul Andrews
119 Posted 12/11/2015 at 06:41:53
Morning Colin,

Not good reading, that... One win in 53 games. Hopefully Martinez will improve on the last manager's abysmal stats.His record is already better than Moyes's.

It could be a little better to:I recall being at Arsenal a couple of years ago when we absolutely played them off the park. How we didn't come away with the win, I don't know. The best I have seen us play at Arsenal since the 80s side.

Tony Abrahams
120 Posted 12/11/2015 at 11:07:36
Colin, that's an horrible stat, isn't it? Why? The present manager is frustrating a lot of us at the minute, because I'm sure if this present squad could "play without fear", then I'm sure we could win against these teams.
Joe Bibb
121 Posted 12/11/2015 at 12:12:08
You only have to look at the attendance figures since Moyes has gone to see how many fans have returned to watch Everton trying to win games instead of trying not to lose them under Moyes.

He constantly cried he had no money whilst at Goodison, at Man Utd he had the keys to the Bank Of England and still managed to make the Champions of England look second rate.

United & Real Sociedad fans were not as gullible as Evertonians – they didn't fall for his hype and con tricks.

Brian Harrison
122 Posted 12/11/2015 at 12:36:19
Joe the figures may have gone up, but the entertainment value certainly hasn't. As I have said before, most of the games are watched in silence as there is very little to get excited about.

I don't know about Klopp moaning about their fans leaving early, most of our games finish with the stadium only a quarter full. They were even pouring out with 10 minutes to go against Sunderland and we had scored 6 goals.

Brent Stephens
123 Posted 12/11/2015 at 14:31:31
Brian #113 is right.

Joe #112 "United & Real Socieadad fans were not as gullible as Evertonians."

Brian #113 is right - a lost of turgid performances despite attendance figures - I guess we're still gullible.

Terence Leong
124 Posted 12/11/2015 at 14:53:30
Moyes seemed to have started with some attacking intent in his team. Consider the first full season he had. I think it was after he lost 2-0 (or something like that) at Old Trafford that season, that he started to be more defensive.

I remembered that he started the Everton game against Spurs (can't remember at home or away) with Campbell, Radzinksi and Rooney. Often, he would substitute Radzinksi to bring on Rooney.

I agree with most people that after 2009, he kind of stagnated. It could be argued that the board didn't back him with cash to push on.

I would agree with those who feel that he has managed everyone's expectations downwards, such that everyone thinks – including the players – that we are punching above our weight.

Many argue that he stabilized the club, and that we were perennial relegation fodder. To me, apart from 1998 (HK Mark III) and 1999 (Smith's 1st season), we weren't exactly relegation fodder. We were just inconsistent. Smith's team was losing its direction, but we weren't relegation fodder.

In fact, we were still able to stuff teams from time to time. I think it was Smith's 2nd season that we had a few 4-0 or 5-0 scorelines (two of which were against West Ham, I think).

Under Moyes, we probably had the 7-1 victory against Sunderland that we can claim that we have beaten teams resoundingly.

Thus, my thoughts are that Moyes helped to steady the ship, both on the pitch (regular top 10 performances), helped stave off administration, but through the process, gave the team a small club mentality. And it is this mentality that is holding us back.

Jay Harris
125 Posted 12/11/2015 at 14:56:03
I actually think neither manager is good enough for the current squad. We could and should do a whole lot better.

However, given a preference, I would have to say Moyes put far more into EFC than Martinez ever will.

I don't want Moyes back as he lost the fans and the team in his last 2 years with his dour outlook and contempt when leaving and afterwards.

For us not to get any compensation from Man Utd and have to pay Wigan for this fella was a bitter pill to swallow but then when Moyes went against all his so-called principles and went big time Charlie with his approach for Baines and Fellaini.

Jay Harris
126 Posted 12/11/2015 at 15:03:23
He lost any respect I had for him.
Ian Riley
127 Posted 12/11/2015 at 20:55:39
Is Moyes to young to manage Celtic? Moyes is early fifties in age? Can you imagine him making a horlicks of that job! Your be finished even as a pundict! What if he had stayed with us? I find it difficult to think we would have the technical players we have now!

Credit to our current manager, yes he has changed our style of play and brought in players to suit that style. Who knows if he will be more successful than our previous manager? What I do know, Ferguson did us a favour, Moyes would still be here now! My only credit to Moyes would be with the limited budget to keep us battling for European competitions for a number of seasons is an achievement.

Our current manager has given the fans belief that we are a big club that can achieve again. I think that aspect was missing from the previous manager. Time will tell!

Darren Hind
128 Posted 13/11/2015 at 02:11:06
Brian (#110)

No I'm not saying Martinez's record is worse than TGT's. The facts, stats and results say that.

I know the members of the ever shrinking Robbie-can-do-no-wrong club will argue against facts all night (they always do) but, contrary to their claims that Martinez has beaten a top four side... he hasn't. Moyes did it on more than one occasion (also contrary to their claims).

Martinez has done the seemingly impossible. he has not only managed a worse record than Moyes, he has dragged it down to such a level we are now talking about the "Sky 9".

Forget the top four. despite having a squad valued at around £200m. Martinez only managed three goals at the top NINE clubs last season. We didn't win any of those games... but then you have to be prepared to get men forward to do that and Martinez will only ever releases the straight jacket if we go behind.

Not only has he gotten worse results, he's even managed to be even more negative. Who knew that was even possible?

Jay Harris ~117 covers this in his first sentence.

"The best, I've seen us play at Arsenal since the eighties" You clearly weren't there a couple of years earlier when Pienaar put us ahead in the snow. That day they were the ones who were relieved to get out of jail with a last-gasp equaliser, not us.

Paul Andrews
129 Posted 13/11/2015 at 06:48:59
Morning Darren,

Jay Harris may not have been there. As it was me who posted that, I will answer.

I was there for the game you mention, the Pienaar game. In my opinion, we were far superior in the game Deulofeu scored the equaliser.

"You out Arsenaled Arsenal!" a group of Arsenal fans told us having a pint after the game.

Darren Hind
130 Posted 13/11/2015 at 15:32:29
Of course they did, even though they had more chances and nearly won it when they hit the woodwork with the last kick of the game. They were probably saying the same to you when they twatted us in the cup a few weeks later...
Brian Denton
132 Posted 13/11/2015 at 20:05:09
Sorry Darren, not part of the 'Martinez can do no wrong' brigade. I do, however believe in the logic of numbers.

To my mind, 1/9 is better than 0/44. And please note I am talking about away victories against those I define as the Sky 4 (ie, Arsena, Liverpool, Man Utd & Chelsea) and, since it's my OPINION, I can dispense with Man City from that group.

Raymond Fox
134 Posted 13/11/2015 at 20:55:22
Well Darren, as one of the 'Martinez can do no wrong brigade' I presume it would be fair to bracket you and Jay in the 'Martinez can do no right squad' I would say he probably belongs on the high side of middle!

What about the last 20 years of trophy-less seasons... you mean to say the players have been good enough, all we needed was a change of manager!

Darren Hind
135 Posted 14/11/2015 at 10:09:00
Raymond,

No, it would not be fair to bracket me in the "Martinez can do no right" squad. I think that squad only exists in your head. Every time someone criticises your hero, you are on here defending him, no matter how legitimate the criticism. I have sang his praises all season especially concerning the way he dealt with the Stones situation.

You see I have no problem with giving him due credit; I call it as I see it and like to think that's a balanced way of doing things.

It's not so much Martinez who troubles me; it's the silly claims made by people whose judgement is clouded by their undying devotion to him. You and your fellow sycophant Paul Andrews have a "one answer fits all subjects" policy. As far as you two are concerned, it's never the boss's fault. Not ever... Don't you think that's a little worrying?

Brian,

Glad to hear you believe in the logic of numbers. At least we can then assume, you will add all the other failures to the nine he accumulated last year alone.

I have to admit I admire a logic that can shoehorn the richest club in the world – one which has won the Premier League twice recently – OUT of the top four, whilst shoe horning IN teams that will do very well to qualify for the Europa League.

Dress it up and twist it any way you want, Martinez has still never beaten a team from the top four away from home.

Brian Denton
137 Posted 14/11/2015 at 15:48:10
Okay, Mr Logic, you keep saying Martinez hasn't beaten any of the Top 4 away from home. So you are discounting Man Utd by definition from the Top 4. Why?

Which teams do you consider to be the Top 4 and on what logic do you leave Man U out? Because they weren't in the Top 4 on the day the fixture was played?

Well, yes you could follow that line. In that case, if Martinez were to have won at West Ham (if I recall correctly, they were 4th at the point we kicked off against them) would that have counted? Presumably not.

If nothing else, comparing a two-year timeframe against an eleven-year one seems a bit dubious.

Darren Hind
139 Posted 14/11/2015 at 17:51:13
Man United finished 7th that season. The were in complete disarray and they were beaten at home time and again. Are you really that desperate that you are claiming that a victory against a top four side?

I'll give you a chance to show me where this "big improvement" came from. Forget the top four... name me a time when he has won at a ground of a team who finished top six?

Darren Hind
140 Posted 14/11/2015 at 17:58:36
Brian

The more you make me look, the more I realise just how bad Martinez's away record is. That win over a Man Utd team that finished 7th was the only win Martinez managed at the grounds of teams who finished in the top NINE for the past two seasons.

That'll be one win out of sixteen attempts against some very average teams... some improvement that is!

Brian Denton
141 Posted 14/11/2015 at 20:43:39
Well, if you're taking an 11-year timeframe you'll have to compare Martinez's Wigan record at those grounds. I couldn't be arsed looking, but I seem to recall he had some victories at the Sky 4 grounds.
Michael Polley
143 Posted 15/11/2015 at 12:47:30
Good luck to him. He'll be back in the Premier League sometime in the future.
Michael Kenrick
147 Posted 17/11/2015 at 23:15:54
Moyes issued this statement through the League Managers Association:

"I am disappointed to have left Real Sociedad. When I accepted the job as manager of La Real last November, my remit was to avoid relegation and retain the club's La Liga status. We succeeded in attaining that target and finished 12th in the table. I feel that we made significant progress last season; beating Barcelona in front of our home fans was a memorable highlight. Despite some positive performances from our team, results have not gone our way in recent weeks. However, I was confident we would finish in a strong position by the end of the season.


"I made a firm promise to Real Sociedad to honour my contract and it is disappointing not to be able to fulfil this commitment especially when I have turned down a number of job opportunities in recent months. After spending 12 years in the Premier League as manager of Everton and Manchester United, I was keen to take the opportunity to work abroad and have learnt a great deal from the experience.

"I would like to thank the club and the President for giving me the opportunity to manage in Spain, at a club with such a rich history of employing British Managers. I would also like to thank the players, staff and my assistant, Billy McKinlay, for their support and the wonderful people of San Sebastian. It has been a pleasure to work in their beautiful city and immerse myself in their culture. Their warmth and generosity has made me feel very at home over the last year.”


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