No goals... no shots on goal for poor Blues

If/when we are comfortably ahead I'd like to see more of Calvert-Lewin

I know he's made a couple of errors, but does more good than bad...

Don't really mind which one starts.

I don't think either of the two merit being mentioned as a prospective 'Number 1' past this season. Robles might remain at the club longer than his 'rival', but if it's in any capacity other than 'competent back-up' then Koeman isn't the ruthless bastard he's often bigged up to be and/or Walsh's 'famed' antenna for talent is about as wide ranging as one of those useless twisty twats on the back of an ancient black and white tv.

My dad has a bag of wood in the back garden ready for the fire in winter, the bag of wood is a better goalkeeper than Robles.

A good game for the anti-Lukaku brigade... he's not getting a lot of support but awful touch, control and passing when he does get the ball.

A dull non-event so far.

If I were Ron I'd be telling Schneiderlin to use his brain and stop playing these cheap pretty crossfield passes out to the full backs and go early and direct to open the game up. Until we give Rom something to chase it's a bit harsh complaining about him not chasing.

Everything needs to speed up. Faster crisper passing, quicker movement on and off the ball and more forward, rather than incessant sideways and backwards play.

WHU sat deep for 30 minutes. Our toothless performance encouraged them out and invited them on to us. We have created our own problems.

Barkley, Gueye and Schneiderlin all so ponderous, careless and unimaginative on the ball.

Barry on for Gueye at half time, Everton to push up 4-5 metres all over the park and FFS, quicken everything up!

He's not been brilliant to say the least, but then neither has anyone else.

Absolutely rank.

They're not the only ones going through the motions by any means but any sort of vigour, imagination or, in one particular case, sweat would be very acceptable indeed in the second half. That is the area I want to see addressed before any other this summer.

A new goalie, two full-backs, a centre-half, a Number 10 and striker needed desperately!

Let's get at them!!!

In the context of a Koeman away performance – predictable.

In the context of our season – soul destroying.

In the context of my weekend ... Jameson!

Very, very depressing.

I just think West Ham set out to negate us and we struggled brainlessly throughout. Schneiderlin continued to play cheap passes all game. Why? Why are you passing the ball? If the reason is anything but dictating the play then don't bother. Might as well just give it back to them for all the worth you're providing to the game.

West Ham are so low on quality yet we had no answer to what they offered defensively. FFS we made Collins run once and he nearly crippled himself... any clues for you there lads? Nah, we sent him straight back to his position on the edge of the D to carry on his 'battle' (nowhere near a battle) with Romelu.

Pathetic.

No energy. No guile. No passion.

Barry and Lookman on for the 2nd half IF you withdraw the right personnel. Gueye - again! - was a liability in the first half and deservedly got hooked. I cannot recall one decent thing Schneiderlin did all game. Davies did not merit being subbed out. He would at least have carried the fight to them and had some energy about him.

Ross had one of his 'light jogging' games when he fannies about on the ball, neither moves it on quickly enough, nor powers forward with the ball. Time and time again he was caught in possession and did nowt to recover the lost ball.

Just awful. Grateful of the point in the end.

Barkley tried hard, but nothing came off for him today and he was marshalled well.

Nobody stood out. Although, at least Lookman tried to shoot the ball in the general direction of their goal.

Special mention though for our two 'superstars' Barkley and Lukaku, both of them were fucking dire, and please don't give me the shite that he didn't get the service, practically everytime he received the ball it went straight back to the opposition. How many times did he head fresh air? I lost count.

Only plus: Lookman looked decent when he came on, needs to get in the weight room and bulk up a bit though, too easily knocked off the ball.

Utterly brainless would be about right as not one player showed any nous, cleverness or thought.

The one move of any note got pulled back to Ross, 10 yards out. Shoot? Nah I'll do my auto twirly thingy I do every time I get the ball.

Arrrgh!

He changed things at half time, and you can quibble with the changes if you like, but not a whole lot of choice, was there? Kone? Kenny who played 90 minutes lat night?

Missing Seamus, Bolasie, McCarthy, and it shows. Sometimes playing the kids works but often it doesn't

Still crap and disappointing though and sometimes shit happens but no positives there whatsoever.

How many air headers can Lukaku have in one game?

How many passes can Holgate give to the opposition in one game??

How little can Barkley do in one game???

It was actually really difficult to watch because there was little effort from anyone. And the really annoying thing is that West Ham were expecting to get tonked and were pretty shite as well.

A really strange and very disappointing performance.

At least Lookman looked lively when he came on, I really didn't understand the point of bringing Barry on at all.

Awful performance... Calls for a Bushmills 16 to cheer me up. Cack.

I suspect there will be nothing to fast-forward past...

We know exactly what we need to do now in summer anyway.

How the away form can be so opposite from the home form is a conundrum that Koeman fast needs to work out because it's seriously holding us back.

He was shit but so was everyone else. Yes, Lukaku too.

If I was going to have a go at one player, it would be Schneiderlin. He's the deep playmaker. In that position, it's his job to dictate how we play. He was the one player who actually got to receive the ball where he wanted it and dictate how the game went. Today, he was far too happy to rack up stats knocking the ball left and right. It was pretty clearly the wrong play but he repeated it for 45 minutes until Koeman put Barry in his place. Schneiderlin then just disappeared same as the rest.

It was garbage, the team was garbage, the options off the bench were garbage, Koeman's set up was garbage, everything was lethargic and slow.

There really isn't any point in going player by player. Nobody deserved their game checks for that other than the center backs and keeper.

The only thing I'd ask is, will the manager come out with that same lineup again despite having to make changes at half-time twice in a row after seeing it be completely negated by extremely poor opposition?

We were outplayed by Burnley for most of the match last week, and by West Ham for the whole of the game today. Aiming for the top four? He must be joking.

Koeman has got to take a long look at himself as well. As I said earlier we need two full backs a centre half a number ten and another striker ASAP.

We need something to make us snap out of this lethargy. On today's performance, they should donate their wages to cherridy.

Booooo to players.

Yes, he changes it often with an improvement but lets get it right first, Ronko, give yourself options later in the game. It leaves him only one tactical sub, and one in case of injury. Limited!

7th is where we should be and the job of getting us beyond that point is enormous. One thing I would love to see is serious pace in the side – my God we need it; but I'm back to putting my ambitions firmly in check.

These players will still be applauded onto the pitch next home game, they should run on to complete silence to remind them of the rubbish they played today, see if they respond to that after being cheered onto the field today by thousands of genuine fans, who have been up since dawn and spent their hard earned money to watch these overpaid millionaires produce that absolute muck.

Well done Michael for getting a report out of that game without losing control – Lukaku and Barkley could have shown you how to lose control, they are fuckin' expert at it.

The summer should see another big clearout, the likes of Kone, Niasse, Lennon,Valencia, McCarthy all leaving the club.

Although it would be unfair to single out players, our big players don't seem to do it on the bigger stage or in away games, Barkley and Lukaku remain ominous. Not enough leaders in the side.

Koeman will hopefully put this right in the summer and bring in players required to step up to that next level challenging top four and winning matches away from home.

How can you possibly comment on a game you didn't see???

It does seem as if Gana and Schneiderlin do not fit well together. I thought Gana and Barry were hitting it off earlier in the season. Neither Gana nor Schneiderlin are sufficiently creative and Gana is not being allowed to play his normal game which so impressed us earlier in the season, running all over the pitch trying to win back the ball.

As for Barkley... words fail me.

Today's team were almost entirely cheating by that measurement.

That said, well done to Lookman and Calvert-Lewin for at least looking interested in scoring and to the goalie and defenders, who at least didn't concede. They did their job. Shame on the rest of them.

We need some consistent, quality players in these positions – players who are capable of playing away from home. We need players in these positions who don't go missing. Gana and Schneiderlin are not the problem.

We look dreadfully short of attacking cohesion and frankly the team style and team selection all season has never been set up to go and win, it's virtually always been set up to not lose.

I honestly can't really remember a truly entertaining away performance this season where we have created bags of chances and shots on goal.

Anyway we will most likely end now with just the one more win at home to Watford.

Can't see us beating a Chelsea or Swansea (away) desperately needing the points for various reasons and well Arsenal away?? We don't win there even when we are great away.

You can see it in a different way but if you excuse not having a go then you are more easy going than me.

Lookman looks decent on the ball but is a bit lightweight, he'll have to figure out how to make up for that.

Holgate wasn't terrible but isn't much of an attacking outlet, the defense were okay.

Was Mirallas on the pitch?

At least he saw it as we did.

If and its a big if Everton are to challenge the top four or six in the coming seasons, they will have to maintain their impressive home form and vastly improve their form on their travels. I haven't checked the figures in the table below but apparently they are the points won by those sides on their travels. We know Everton aren't quite as good as some of those teams, but surely we should have been looking to earn more points from those away fixtures?

Chelsea - 36
Man City - 34
Man Utd - 30
Liverpool - 29
Arsenal - 24
Spurs - 24
Everton - 18

It is a big concern that the team seemingly can't be arsed turning up for away games. A clean sheet, and a point today the only positives. I hope Koeman gets them in for training tomorrow.

Next weekend v Chelsea, will the team turn up?

I've said for ages, people say Barkley will go to Spurs but he's light years behind Dele Alli and Eriksson.

Schneiderlin holds his central position and Gana is being forced to run straight up the lanes either side of him rather than having a free rein to go where the ball goes. If Gana is not allowed to play his natural game, is he worth a place in the side without a creative part to his game? Not sure who I would replace him with!

(Koeman Walsh) "Come to Everton – we are looking to compete against Chelsea, Spurs etc next season"

(player) "Got any videos so I can see how you play?"

(Koeman) "Steve did you bin all the vids away from home?"

(Walsh) "Err!!! I recorded the Portuguese Second Division over them. They were more exiting".

I suspect a bit of complacency is setting in due to lack of options on the bench. Gana and Davies are really the only ones with a readymade replacement on the bench in the form of Barry. The rest of the outfield players know they're going to play regardless.

Team were abysmal today... Holgate is a player I like – good competitive spirit about him.

Pity we couldn't play Valencia because, with Lukaku moving about as much as a statue on a narrow pitch, we looked toothless.

Desperately need a frontman who can take the ball on himself.

Berkley, Barcley, Barclay, and even Barkely definitely weren't on the pitch today.

Anyone think outright we will win comfortably at Swansea? With the caveat they have to win, gaps might be there.

Me, nope. It's character as well as bang awful tactics. Today was yet another free swing and the only pressure was from ourselves to put it back on those above. We tamely subsided. That is not a good portent for the future.

I heard Ronko in the first half. 'Intensity more intensity'.

The game was played at a veterans' pace. Simply he was ignored or they were not good enough?

Let's remember Koeman will keep several in that team. Hope Ronko has a decent Amex 'cos hes getting loads of points for what he needs to spend on!

Horrendous place to play football though; the crowd behind the goal are a good 9 iron from the pitch.

Barkley keeps confusing me by messing around doing flicks, turning numerous times on the ball, basically he reminds me of the kid that wants to be noticed by the control he has of a football. His attributes are lacking compared to other midfielders who play simple passes.

I just watched the semi-final. Ross would not get into the Spurs team. Lukaku had one chance all day apart from a run in the box. Perfect cross into the box from Holgate, if I recall. Romelu attacks it, he scores... but takes the butt. He gave it a miss.

I'd be very upset if we lost Barkley in the summer.

In return, Eriksen should be made to watch videos of Barkley so he can see how lucky he is not to have the sole burden to 'create' flung slap bang on his shoulders, whilst operating within a squad with (1) no other attacking midfield option whatsoever, (2) laden down with multiple defensive grafters and (3) minus any fucking width for months and months on end.

The big difference today is that we saw the listless Barkley from last season; he and Mirallas were both crap. Lukaku had one of those games where his only effort was in not getting hurt (or dirty)... maybe he had a date. Pathetic.

We look so poor away from home... WHY???.

I'd argue that Gana and Schneiderlin perform the same way for us that Dembelé and Wanyama perform for Spurs. The difference is that the Spurs midfield give the ball to players in front of them who work their balls off and carry a goal threat consistently - Kane, Son, Alli, Eriksson.

Our midfield plays the ball forward, and you never know what they are going to do. There's only one player who has a goal threat really, Lukaku, but as we all know, you've got to driver the ball on a silver tray to him. Out of the question that he will win a header for you, or make a run.

We need a revolution up front!

We had no solid base provided by the defensive MFs and, in both halves, even with Barry on the pitch, we were too open.

Asking Gueye and Schneiderlin to follow their instincts and lose touch with the back four is suicidal. I lost count of the number of times they got caught the wrong side of play when it broke down.

I say again, too stretched, too much fire fighting and Lukaku told to stay too far up and distant from the other forward players. They had to come inside to get near to him and it became congested.

This is not solely about the players we have. It is about foolish tactics.

However, he seems to be doing exactly what he has done in the past. Does he relax into a catatonic state once awarded a start?

Also, the midfield of Gana, Schneiderlin and Davies seems high on graft, but leaves Barkley with most of the responsibility to create anything.

Gana, in particular seems to have gone off the boil in recent games, being hooked on his last outing.

Boy, do we need another creative midfielder.

Agree completely. Barkley had no support or options all game. If he has a game where it's not working for him, then nobody else steps up.

He carries all of the creative responsibility and everyone else seems to get off likely.

I'm fed up of the same shite from the pair of them. Cash in and move on. I'd swap a 35-year-old Rooney for Barkley tomorrow.

Lookman and Mirallas both played today so there was width. I am a huge Barkley fan and he's practically unstoppable when playing well but today wasn't one of them days.

What I meant is Erikssen always seems to know when to make the right pass whereas Ross hangs on to it too long trying that extra dribble or turn when he doesn't need to.

Also, yes it must be very frustrating for him at times dealing with his forward option versus Erikssen's, I definitely agree with that.

John Daley is right about width - at its worst in the Tottenham game at WHL - and the players who might have provided it are either injured, gone or not yet good enough/never will be good enough. As I've said above, the lack of speed (both of thought and execution) is also obvious.

We have a strange ponderousness about us which has been there for years away from home. God knows where it comes from, though timidity probably has much to do with it. Terrified to be bold, to take chances, to honour our best traditions.

I was saying the other day that I thought Koeman was instilling a winning ethos and then we witness this afternoon's garbage. I live in hope but, my word, it's tough to stay genuinely optimistic because there's a weakness at the heart of what we do.

In some ways, I'm feeling a bit relieved, after travelling around the country for about 50 years, I decided to reign in away trips towards the end of last season. Now I don't bother... but I feel disgusted at the way Koeman has treated the fantastic supporters who make incredible sacrifices to watch their team. The fucker has absolutely no respect for them.

And I don't feel any better when I see people criticise young players who are playing out of position because this shyster doesn't have an adventurous bone in his body. Instead of spending the entire season blaming the players for all these gutless pug ugly away performances, look for the common denominator.

Players change; we've probably used around a couple of dozen this season but, no matter who is selected, we always end up talking about shite away performances where our striker has been left in total isolation.

I despair when I read people claim WHU simply defended, They probably had about three times as many attempts on goal. There is a very simple logic to this, you have to commit men forward in order to break down a resolute defence. If you don't, you end up with yet another stalemate.

£6M quid a year... most of the people on here could do what he's done.

Get Rid!

You touched on something there that I noticed but didn't say for fear of getting into one.of those daft ToffeeWeb spats.

Lukaku on several occasions, that I noticed, pulled out of challenges or jumped out of them in what certainly appeared to be a fear of getting injured.

An abysmal attacking performance

Hopefully some massive changes in the summer.

Got to say too much protesting there on behalf of the Wavertree Wonder. Let's say you argument holds water and imo it has some merit.

Even if I take the evidence as a given, the lack of width, poor movement etc. If Ross is as good as billed, why in spite of the lack of help has he not turned in a performance this season were he has singled handed pulled us out of the poo? Because that's kinda why he's a star player, sometimes that's what you have to do right?

You seem to imply he needs help to play to his maximum? Totally correct to a point, most good players should give you a 7/10 performance most weeks and not rely on any one player. But you always need 2 or 3 'class above' players to change the course of any game, do you not?

He just seems to get affected by the team too much when they get stuck, and not just say 'sod this' my game, my team, time to sort this crap out.

Just a side bar to what is in the main fair cop to the team as a whole. Much harder to succeed when the terra cotta army stands before you as an option.

What did you like about it Colin? The fact he said he would have subbed 10 if he could? 

Like most of his post-match comments following a poor performance I thought he very nearly talked himself into a corner by pointing out “We had a lot of ball possession but there were too many players in the central position in the midfield". No shit! That tends to be the case when you only have central midfielders to call upon and opt to operate without recognised wingers for a large part of the season. 

Given his team selection, where was Koeman expecting the width to come from? That isn't Gana's, Schneiderlin's or Davies's game. Mirallas and Barkley are always going to be inclined to come inside.

The time when Baines was able to get up and down the pitch like a bloke running back and forth between bog and bed the morning after a bad burger have long since been and gone, and Holgate is a centre-half standing in at right back.

Koeman needs to get them to focus on winning rather than not losing and hopefully we might see them playing with the confidence witnessed at Goodison in 2017.

I don't disagree Ross had a poor game today or that Eriksen produces on a more regular basis, but I do think the type of players they are surrounded with and the tactics they are being sent out to play to, have a significant part to play.

Other than Ross, who was the last creative/attacking midfielder we had on the books? Old Man Osman, a piss weak watered down Pienaar? 

So, it's not a lot easier for a 'creative' player to create when there are other like-minded players on the pitch?

Absolutely Rom lad jumped a la Beckham, World Cup 2002, or more like some double Dutch skipping routine.

Bottled it. Well spotted.

What is his fault is slowing down of play, dwelling on the ball, providing he's not giving it away or losing it, that is... or being totally anonymous. Never mind though – he's a young lad only been in the 1st team squad for 6 years, he'll eventually rid his game of these traits and become the world class player hidden in there somewhere.

Never going to happen, I'm afraid.

You know, beat one beat two bang stick it in the top bin, when the game was as poor today for instance? He never at any point looked like trying to sort the dross out on the field. And has yet to my eye done so this season.

Room for significant improvement on both sides of this coin?

Also who wouldn't get frustrated when you have that overated 'superstar' ahead of you constantly giving the ball back to the opposition? He must be thinking ,"If I give it to him, my next move is going to be trying to win it back again."

He was poor today. Lukaku, as per usual when he doesn't score, was pathetic.

I left that in for pure joke value, but I think you must've meant "Barkley and Lukaku remain anonymous"???

It would be interesting to see that team with Bolasie, Rooney and Sigurdsson supporting someone like Vardy, instead of our front 4 today. I'm hoping this will be the case next season.

There's still room for the likes of Barkley in the squad – just not as a nailed on starter.

Away from home is different, it's obvious he's still learning. Despite all the criticism, I get the feeling with the right signing, all those draws can be turned into victories.

Buying the right players, that turns draws into wins is Koeman's biggest test, as it was for Howard Kendall all those years ago.

Let us all just hope and pray he gets it right in the summer. Everything else is just dross.

Even our 'local' team in Toronto put our EFC (lack of) effort into perspective by winning 3-1 in a really entertaining MLS win over the Chicago Fire last night... pity is Toronto's home kit is all red.

Anyone who thinks we have any chance of cracking more than 7th in the near, or distant, future after today's shameful shambles has to need a brain transplant asap.

What is Koeman supposed to do – buy all the supporters a pint?

This was one game where the team selected was the correct one but not one of the players showed up – and don't even get me started on "Champions league" Lukaku.

He was at his worst today – too lazy to close defenders down and too ponderous to get on the end of passes. Outclassed by James "Who?" Collins...

𧴜M... ??? The mind boggles.

We might well find out this summer! If both of them did leave, we would have a lot of money​ to replace the pair and start again.

Plus Koeman would be the guy to do it as he has shown at Southampton that selling big players and reshaping a team is one of his strengths.

Our home form is brilliant. Is Koeman expected to sort everything out after one season??? Some people on here have some pretty unrealistic expectations. Or we could just sack Koeman and start the improvement process all over again??!! No. Not a smart move in my view.

We were rubbish today yes but Christ we are in a better place than last year.

It's worrying. We potentially need a new back four and a new front four (Holgate aside if he plays centre half). Two should start from Schneiderlin, Gana and Davies. Other than that, we're looking at wholesale changes across the board. Otherwise we'll be finishing around 7th for some time to come.

Barkley and Lukaku play well at home games but the cream of the players play well home or away. I would rather have Kane any day of the week than Lukaku. If Kane had played the same amount of matches as Lukaku has played, he would be top scorer and I still think Kane will get more goals than Lukaku by the end of the season.

"Get rid"?

Well, it was a pretty terrible game, I must agree... but get rid? Get some fucking perspective.

He's been here 9 months. We are about where I would expect us to be.

We have significantly improved on the last two seasons. We have scored more goals in a Premier League season than ever before. We have lost two games in nearly half a season. We are going to qualify for Europe.

Since the December derby, our record is W10 D5 L2 which is Champions League form, ie, 2 points a game

Your Koeman ranting is looking a bit pathetic if I'm honest.

• This is the first time in Lukaku's Everton career that he has failed to score against West Ham – having netted in each of his previous nine appearances against the Hammers.
• Lukaku failed to have a shot on target in this match – the third successive away game the Belgian striker has failed to do so. It is the longest run without a shot on target away from home in the Premier League.

The bar is a minimum of 7th, a default before a ball is kicked we are the 7th biggest turnover, ground financials etc. that's something you seem to concur with?

Koeman has restored what should be acceptable, very little more, he has some serious work to do in the summer, which with the record you cite he has earned.

But if after 10 games next year he ain't looking like ripping up a forest with a significant summer spend behind him then, serious question need to be asked. With the elevation Moshiri is giving us and the direction headed another season of 'transition' won't cut it.

Koeman should be kept on a tight leash, no drifting allowed, real tangible progress, no project crap, do it under the scrutiny as you will be given the funds.

Too much for some maybe, me sick of being sat in neutral not going anywhere.

"Graham, clearly not time to 'get rid'. However why measure Koeman against the lowest bar possible i.e. The last two seasons."

I guess because that's what he inherited. But your point is valid. 7th this season is probably minimum expectation.

10 games might be a bit early to judge but unless we are challenging for top 4 then we are not making sufficient progress.

I will say this again, he is without doubt for me the most overrated player to ever wear the Everton shirt; no, to his supporters, I did not say the worst. Seriously, does anyone who watched that game or the one at Anfield or Old Trafford think this lad is worth £100 million pound making him the most expensive player in the history of football?

It's no coincidence that Stan, David Barks and others are failing to even mention him on this thread, I wonder why? Take away the goals and what are you left with? Today's game answers that question, not much!

I don't know what to make of him to be honest. It is almost like he has a split personality because you never know which Rom is going to turn up. We really have a big summer ahead...

We all know his all-round game is not fantastic but he is pretty superb at one of the hardest parts of the game, putting the ball in the net. That's why we shouldn't sell him if we can help it.

We have set up our team around him with Barkley just behind, and people who quote the records of them both seem to forget why everything will go through the pair of them by default.

If I hear anyone else says to me "Well, Ross has the most assists of anyone of his age in the Premier League," I'd say "So what?"

Are you telling me he's a better player than Scholes or Lampard coz he had more assists by 23? Barkley isn't and never will be fit to tie the laces of even the likes of Cahill or Arteta. A fit Pienaar was twice the player. Barkley may have more assists than Hazard or David Silva but how many blues would start Barkley over those two?

Watch the pair of them on the pitch. Over-rated, over-hyped and over-idolised. Lukaku won't do what he does at a top club coz the club won't flex to accommodate his idleness and shite approach play. If this is the form of Barkley's life... then time to cash in.

Look no further than this season: one win in 10 games over late autumn cost us a much higher position with a relatively poorer squad.

So with a significant outlay, Koeman has to deliver. People can whine about how long it takes for a team to gel. One of the reasons you buy better players is most of the time they can integrate more quickly and take on the style of play more efficiently, that's why they're better, right?

Koeman can be smart, target three wins in the group stage of the Europa and lessen the effect of depleting the squad further down the line.

My guess is, even with the great points we've amassed this calendar year, we've had 4 games to do more, overachieve if you like. Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd & West Ham Utd, All away, different line ups each time but same defensive tactics and pragmatism. 2 points from 12.

Not sure Koeman can cure that travel sickness.

I think Koeman emphasised keeping possession and that has been taken as do a safe back pass rather than a rash forward pass.

There are two ways to defeat a team like WHU and Chelsea and they are first using unpredictable team selection and tactics like Martinez did when he played Lukaku on the wing against Arsenal it worked – we won. The second is for players to keep hold of the ball and press forward, this breaks the defence up and defenders move out of key positions to stop the impending attack.

On the subject of players who can open defences, have you seen Spurs target Douglas Costa? He seems to operate the second option.

Question: Can anyone tell me if the FA Cup Final is between Chelsea and Man City and both are in the top 4, does 5th place qualify for the Champions League?

I'll tell you was is REALLY pathetic. Your willingness, sorry insistence, on accepting mediocrity.

We have been beaten at Bournemouth, Burnley and Southampton. We have induced comas at Stoke, Middlesborough and West Ham. barely mustering an effort worthy of the name in any of the games. We have failed to beat Hull. Lost at Watford. Been comprehensively outplayed and soundly beaten at Anfield and WHL. Humiliated at Chelsea.

Don't dare try to apologise for these abysmal facts by putting up half baked stats racked up mainly by beating teams below us at home.

Koeman hasn't just been found wanting today he has been found wanting time and time again... all season long.

These away supporters deserve to at least see their team have a go.

Our record on the road is one to be truly ashamed of, but the club now seems to be saddled with fans like you who are creaming themselves over the fact that we have accumulated more points than we did when Martinez was in charge.

Smell the coffee lad, if you think al those results were bad, you should have seen the performances.

The team, the entire team, was absolutely garbage today. Barkley was terrible, Gana useless, Mirallas invisible, Lukaku completely ineffective, Schneiderlin did nothing, Barry useless, Holgate constantly misplaced passes, Davies watched the game fly in the opposite direction than he was facing, Baines couldn't beat the first man with any crosses.

So let me ask you, why do you focus solely on fucking Lukaku? Honestly, the team created absolutely nothing, was horrific, and Koeman said as much. Koeman has to sub off Gana at halftime for the second consecutive match, because the set up was failing so badly. Barkley, my God he looked poor. Takes the man four touches just to turn toward their goal when receiving a pass.

Our tactics were mostly to hoof the ball up to Lukaku against the three at the back of West Ham. That made a lot of sense. Yet the manager persists with always having two defensive midfielders on the pitch no matter how poor the opposition is. But you come on here and have to mention me and others saying we're scared to mention Lukaku. No, we can just see that the team as a whole, including Lukaku, was absolute shite.

But hey, maybe you'll get your wish from earlier in the season and we'll have Anichebe and Shane Long up top next season and then we'll be Champions, right?

I agree with most of what you say. The first 10 games all depends on the outcome.

You would look for 20 points ideally depending on how the fixtures fall. But 15+ you are still at the races..

I get the away record thing but again some perspective we have lost 2 games in 17.

There you go again. We have lost 2 games in 17. We have more or less qualified for Europe.

You manage to mention all eight games we have lost but not mentioned the sixteen we have won.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten we beat both Arsenal and Man City at home.

Your anti-Koeman schtick is getting tiresome.

And no, I don't blame your hero for everything, see my first post, it was a poor team performance.

West Ham were there for the taking and yet there is no threat or desire. Who is behind that attitude? Just think what would have been his season if we had played with some abandon.

How many of our away games have got the pulse really racing? Crystal Palace, Leicester, WBA could all have gone the other way. So one encouraging performance, a win away against the mighty Moyes XI?

I think technically, Stek is better; how many goals did we let in today?

Was it 0-0? How then can he be blamed for zero production at the other end of the pitch? I hope he keeps his place.

Three of the back four are too old. The goalies are not top drawer. We have a decent enough midfield but again not top drawer. Up front, Lukaku is a modern Malcolm MacDonald – scores frequently against the moderate sides but not against a top class defence and lacks the finer skills required at the very top level.

Ron has done well in his first season and got us back to our true position of seventh. Next season is the big test- can he inject the class players to move us onto a par with the top six?

That lot are not that good but they all have players who are better than ours. Eriksen, Coutinho, Sanchez, Silva, Hazard – we have no-one to compare; Koeman & Walsh have to find a few to lift us to that level.

Today was awful but even the top 6 have days like that. I like Ross but he isn't going to be the man to make us tick Lukaku he will never be a Ball or Reid or even Arteta. Lukaku scores goals but is severely flawed. Mirallas will never become a first choice and we have to sort that front three if we are to truly threaten the top 6.

We have done okay this season but need to up our game to progress further.

Okay, normally impact sub, but I would have this guy in the blink of an eye!

If he had been eligible to play, hypothetical I know, but I think IMO, we would have three points instead of one.

A team that seemed utterly bored by any notion of playing football and players who seem to have forgotten some basic tactics such as passing a ball to each other or remembering the direction the oppositions goal lay in. However, Koeman was right in commenting that he would have liked to have substituted ten players at the half way mark.

Nice sunset from the coach window on the way back though.

I won't try to be witty, sophisticated or urbane. That is one shit, soulless stadium in which to watch one shit, gutless performance.

If I had a receipt, I'd ask God for this day back!

Therefore, our season was going to undoubtedly include some disappointing performances. Today was dire. I was quick to put the boot in the coach after the derby because it was, in my view, coaching ineptitude. However, today wasn't.

It was a smug performance that lacked passion. Flat, end of season dross that insulted the Evertonians who went. Not, though, sack the coach stuff. Surely you can see some progress, Darren. Do you honest to God not see us so much better than a year ago?

For those who say that some of us are easily pleased, I would say we all see shit when it is served up. I can moan after a bad show as well as anyone but give the man a fucking chance.

"We have been beaten at Bournemouth, Burnley and Southampton. We have induced comas at Stoke, Middlesborough and West Ham. barely mustering an effort worthy of the name in any of the games. We have failed to beat Hull.
Lost at Watford. Been comprehensively outplayed and soundly beaten at Anfield and WHL. Humiliated at Chelsea."

How many teams wouldn't be able to write something like this?

Liverpool were beaten by Burnley, Bournemouth, Hull and Leicester away in the league. Beaten by Southampton and Wolves in the cups. Beaten by Swansea at home.

Man City were, humiliated by Everton at Goodison, failed to beat Middlesbrough and Stoke at home. Held to a goalless draw against Huddersfield in the Cup. Beaten by Ranieri's Leicester (who were awful at the time).

Chelsea were beaten at home by Crystal Palace, beaten away by West Ham in the cup, humiliated away to Arsenal, failed to beat Swansea away.

Arsenal were beaten by Watford at home, humiliated by Crystal Palace away, embarrassed by WBA away, failed to beat Bournemouth away, failed to beat middlesbrough at home,

Man Utd failed to beat Stoke home or away, failed to beat Hull, West Ham, Ranieri's Leicester and Burnley at home, rescued a point at home against Everton in the final minute, humiliated by Chelsea away, beaten by Watford away.

And so on and so on. It's the Premier League. You don't win every week.

A real non-event from our perspective, and I'm amazed this thread has almost 200 comments on it!

I would take a silly offer all Day long, but that is just my opinion, yet he gets defended week after week: poor service etc, never Rom. Today was another example where we needed that bit more from him, fair to say a poor team performance all round.

An overhaul of 4 to 5 players needed for next season if not more with a top class striker, centre back and goal keeper a must.

Are you taking the piss? I can be a critic of Rom, but goals ate pretty valuable! Stupid comment.

Nick, agree. Barkley isn't good enough – sell.

Another bad away day, but we drew... major clear-out due and the club must be ruthless.

The U23s put the first team to shame in terms of heart and application and pride to play for the Everton shirt.

We have been excellent this year though, and the overhaul comments are fantasy-football comments in truth – the manager is overhauling the squad but you have to do it bit by bit – you can't just tear it apart and start afresh, it takes time, and Koeman is doing a good job if you ask me.

We were nailed on for 7th at Christmas, and we still are – we'll play in the Europa League next year, and that's called progress. Slowly slowly, catchy monkey .

You are the self appointed ombudsman of Everton managers. Your word is final. You are the David Ike of TW who is laughed at for scoffing at a manager who has lost 2 games in 17, but you will bide your time. You know, when the inevitable bad patch happens, you will stand vindicated.

He was absolutely terrible, he's terrible most games. Yes he's scored goals, btw most of them goals provided by teamates who isolate him and don't give him the service he needs so we're told.

Even though he's going to win the golden boot because of them very same teamates, he's too good to play with us. Like I said, take away them goals, he is fucking useless – watch the game!

Anyone advocating wholesale changes to personnel when there's a game like this would essentially be asking for our excellent home form to be unnecessarily put at risk by tampering. Who thinks our home form indicates a need for sweeping player changes?

The problem away from home has been team selection, shape and tactics, in varying degrees. These coupled with what looks like low team spirit and belief are the differences. There's a tangible lack of authority when we're away from Goodison. Aside from the occasional random bad one that can afflict the best of teams, the responsibility for this lies with the manager.

Maybe today was a random bad one. To me, it looked like they'd all eaten the wrong food. There was a lethargy pervading just about the whole team.

Mostly though, I think Koeman carries the can. He appears to be setting up/fielding specific home and away teams, as opposed to teams catering to specific opposition.

Adjustments to teams for individual oppositions and their players are necessary, and used unashamedly by even the best of sides. These however are made on top of a basic platform, the essence and identity of a team, it's style and type of play. All the best teams do or aspire to this.

Everton don't have this, yet. We look like two different teams. I just don't see evidence of the team being motivated to go out and really take the game to the opposition in away fixtures, in the way we have at home.

I'm still unsure about Koeman.

I just look forward to year zero.

We are definitely short of a Plan B: with injuries across the squad and a lack of quality attacking options, sides like West Ham who play to frustrate will do just that.

The fact that Enner Valencia – a player deemed surplus to requirements by today's insipid hosts – has been our most effective offensive option off the bench in recent weeks says a lot.

Give Koeman time. We are where we should be, and after the intolerable performances under Martinez last year I'll take solid, goals-aplenty home form and boring points away at West Ham all day long.

With good recruitment, a bigger squad for some European away days and a squad that looks more organised than the Dali-esque interpretation of a team we saw last year, we will be alright.

Everton must not waste time putting silly offers in for players who are worth top dollar. Pay the money and get the players in nice and early.

If Everton are going to sell Lukaku, stick with the £100 million asking price, but have a deadline date; if no club comes in for him at that price by second week in July, then he will have to stay.

Come on board.... get your finger out and get the business done early.

How many times did we pass direct to the opposition players or were caught lazy on the ball? Even the referee would score less than 5 today. How he couldn't see Collins almost ripping Lukaku's shirt off his back in the late minutes of the game actually amazes me. A clear 100% penalty!

Truth is, we didn't even deserve a point in this one. But I'll take it!

Oh how I wish we had one of those type of World Class Strikers – instead of somebody who just THINKS he's a World Class Striker!

The performance was as bad as you say. Notwithstanding the tactical effects of the opposition being in "Home mode" when we play away games, the question remains: why is our away form so vastly inferior to that at home? It's chalk and cheese.

Sorry mate but before you lambast the ref for not seeing it you'd better look again.

It was actually Ashley Williams. I don't think Lukaku was on the pitch today.

Considering our goal was battered with attempts and nothing at the other end, I'd say a point was all we deserved.

We have conceded so many less this season that we have the fifth-best defense as opposed to the seventh-worst. We defend set pieces quite well now even though we probably have the smallest defense in the league.

But don't worry, help is on the way – I just read the Moshiri is trying to get an additional £300 mill Chinese investment into our little 'project".

Cheers

COYB

Tactically – well, here's a possibility. Many say on here not to be critical of the coaching but something is different. Away from home we look lethargic and timid, pensive with our passing – almost like with each kick we are afraid to make a mistake. Whereas, at home, we are much more energised, decisive and firm with our passing (but not perfect in many ways). Big conundrum!????

When coaching amateur, I would drill in to the team to go out and attack at home games. FFS, it's only a green rectangle!!

In the first half, the midfield seemed to consist of Barkley, Holgate out wide and Davies. Schneiderlin and Gana, like McCarthy before them, seem to have some allergy when it comes to crossing the halfway line in support. Schneiderlin got forward more in the second half but that seemed to be because Barry had taken his place in the "back five".

The lack of drive wasn't helped by the lack of movement upfront until Lookman came on.

Stekelenburg looked a little rusty but that should be expected with 3 or 4 months not playing. The defence generally did well but more creativity and attacking support is needed in midfield (I tend to think the game itself suffers from too many defensive midfielders) and a winger who can beat a full back is a must.

However, the question does need asking if the Manager sets the team up more defensively for ALL away games and seemingly tries to change it later in the game.

Oh not the old "Let's try to isolate him for not running with the pack" routine. I remember shaking my head in disbelief as you tried the same tactic time and again when Martinez was in charge. It won't wash. I will not blind myself to the obvious.

Our groundhog fortnight was in evidence yesterday. Same failures. Same miserable performances. Same negative tactics. Same isolation of the striker. Same blaming of the players, Same apologies for the one common denominator.

"Give him a chance". Give him a chance? What are you waiting for...? The leopard to change his spots???

I did not appoint myself as anything. I simply gave an opinion, but you and Mockers simply can't bear it. once again you have to make it personal. I'm happy with that, it demonstrates how piss-weak your argument is.

I told you yesterday that you view the game through the wide eyed innocence of an eight-year-old, that you can only ever see the good points and are totally blind to the things that have plagued this club for three decades.... and warraya know; you both provide classic examples on this thread.

We are talking about truly abysmal away performances, not in a knee jerky kind of way, but consistent season long half witted tactics. The best you and Mockers can muster is daft arsed stats in response..

"Yeahbutnobutyeahbutno" . ."we may be dogshit away, but we are good at home" ... Pathetic.

If you think being a rich mans Burnley is cause for celebration, then we may as well all go home. Whoever it was who wound you up by dubbing you 'fanboy' (and it wasn't me) has completely... completely got your number.

Of course results and performances like yesterday are very disappointing but let's be rational. We are having a better season, a good one even. Not a great one but we are going to get 7th (at least, probably at most too) and Europe and have scored more goals and conceded less. It's Koeman's first season with a fair amount of new players and youngsters playing and we ARE moving forwards.

Every team has bad days where they lose or draw to inferior opposition! It has happened to us a little bit more than the top 4 and that's why we are not with them yet; hardly a surprise given their resources and history of winning matches.

We have to improve our away form; that much is obvious but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. We are improving and have a good manager and some good players.

Hopefully we will see investment this Summer, sensible transfer moves and can deal with the European schedule. I believe we are still in the top 4 for form in 2017 so if we continue onwards, then there may be even more to cheer about .

Yes mate, of course I see an improvement, but wasn't that the very least we could have expected? And is the improvement great enough? Are the tactics which are employed away from home ever going to change with this guy in charge?

You say that calls for the man to be sacked are ludicrous, it's probably worse than that, they're probably futile and I don't think I will do it again.

Before I leave this thread Andy I'd like your opinion on something:

Do you think that (for a fraction of the wage) David Unsworth would not have at least equalled if not bettered what Koeman has done? Do you think he would have been as cowardly away from home? Do you think he would not have spent the 㿼 million more wisely?

Everton is a club who do better when we appoint from within, not always, but as a rule we do. I fucking hate the fact that every time we need a manager these days, we seem to want to appoint the current flavour of the month. These hired hands see us as little more than an exceptionally accommodating gravy train.

Moyes, Martinez, Koeman.... what is it with this club? Why do we have so many fans who appear grateful to have their kecks removed?

Some ToffeeWebers blame the manager, tactics, individuals or a bad day at the office. Some also think the remedy lies in a clear out and replacement of a number of players.

This is unlikely to work if we persist in buying mediocre players like we have done for the last 20-odd years. So-called bargain buys, has-beens, outcasts and general journeymen.

Because of lack of funds in the past it maybe all we could afford, but the media list of our potential signings next summer are ominously pretty average.

Although we did find a few gems in our past signings we now have to either bite the bullet and buy the same sort of players as the top 5 clubs do or continue to finish 7th at best.

We need to thank Jags and Ashley, because we were outplayed at every other position (except for keeper; hell, they didn't even need a keeper). West Ham's game plan worked to near perfection. I'm not sure we had one.

Every pass we made was contested, while they seemed to find acres of space with nearly every move. Thank the football gods that Caroll and Snodgrass were unavailable because, if they played, I don't think the result would have been as good as it was... if it's possible that anything we did in that game could be called "good".

Maybe, in a long stretch of imagination, Stekelenberg earning a clean sheet could qualify. He made a save or two, but he scared me silly on set pieces and corners. I don't think you can put some of his shaky bits down to be rusty. He needs to command his box a lot better. Koeman's habit of sitting out players if they've made a mistake in the previous match, will bite us in the ass one day.

Our away form is pitiful and the fault lies with the entire club; manager and players. It's almost as if Koeman sets them up to fail, and the players are happy to oblige. The worst we've played all season.

Who the hell did they give MotM to?

Time to put this one to rest, and move on.

I don't think Koeman will want this to take five years but his task is harder, there are more and better opponents above. His team and results so far seem fundamentally better than his predecessors, score more goals, get more clean sheets, aiming for better flexibility with still several unsettled positions.

It is clear we still have a way to go for top 6.

We are 2nd in the Premier League home table! That's pretty darned good. If we were second in the whole table, I don't think we'd be worrying about performances too much. Over a season, it's the results that matter.

You cannot challenge me on performances at home and then change the direction of the argument towards the simple accrual of points.

The majority of the teams we've played at home this year have been mediocre and the majority of our wins at home have been disjointed displays of two halves. We've haven't had a solid 90 minutes in this season until the Leicester game.

Form doesn't tell the whole story. I think people should be a little more circumspect with the assertion that we are great at home. There's plenty of threads on here, on winning matchdays at home, replete with criticism.

Only joking about the couldn't really see what was going bit, but it really did feel that way half the time.

Please, Everton, DON'T build a new stadium with a running track around it. The atmosphere was almost soulless. Even the Everton fans below us seemed miles away. That stadium was great for what it was built for, the Olympic Games. A football stadium it is not.

We are second in the home league table over the whole season (which we are near the end of). For me therefore it is fair to say we have been pretty brilliant at home as over a long period results is more important than performance.

I spat out my coffee reading that.

Koeman is a big name manager, and nobody can argue with that. He's improved us in a year, no one can argue that point either.

Why change the manager halfway through the project he was brought in to achieve? From where I sit, he appears to have made lots of progress considering he inherited a shambles from Martinez.

We're nailed on for 7th, which will get us back into Europe, which is surely progress again? We've scored more goals than in any season for 20 years – more progress? Unbeatable at home – progress again? 5th best defence in the division – progress? Rubbish away from home – irritating, but cause to drop the manager... really?

I think everyone would agree Rom (and everyone else) was crap yesterday. And that Rom can at other times be crap e.g. Man Utd away.

You said: "take away them goals he is fucking useless."

Read this again and see how vacuous it sounds. What's your next one... "Take away Ronaldo's goals and he's useless to Real Madrid."

Well you can't take Rom's goals away, why would you?! Clown.

He is there to score goals, he does and scores A LOT. Could he improve? Yes. Who do you think we could get instead? What you're after is a player who scores a ton of goals, loads of assists, brilliant overall play, works superbly hard, incredible attitude... yeah, I can just see Everton attracting such a striker 😂😂😂

FFS we have a guy banging in 20 odd EVERY season, but according to you he's 'fucking useless'. Dig ya brain out lad.

As for the Premier League... 7th-best sums us up!

Well, I suppose it's one way to strengthen an argument.

Someone yesterday put out a list of the points gained away from home by the top 7; no surprise we were miles behind the other 6. So, if we are to genuinely challenge for a top 4 spot, we need to change that statistic dramatically.

This may be due partly to tactics, or it may be a mentality problem, or a combination of both, but whatever it is, it's not diwn to individual players taking the blame. Get a fucking grip.

Jagielka and Williams played well.

Lookman looked bright when he came on, always looking ahead of him, he even had a good shot and set up Barkley so he could fart about instead of shooting.

Stekelenburg, like Robles last few weeks, showed that we need a decent keeper who dominates his box and inspires confidence.

Barkley and Mirallas again showed their inconsistency and the need for at least two quality attacking midfielders this summer.

Lukaku again showed that, if a big centre half dominates him in the first ten minutes, he goes into his shell.

I watched the semi final and marvelled at two midfields chock full of movement, pace, guile and an interest in goals.

This team will not get any higher until we get some guile and goal threat from the midfield. You can piss in the wind about Barkley, Mirallas and Deulofeu; none of them are consistent or disciplined enough to play to the consistent high level we need.

I'm not excited by Koeman. He's done what any half decent manager would do, make us more solid and harder to beat. Big deal. If he's going to make a real difference, he's going to find and gel two attacking midfielders and at least one decent striker. And a keeper and centre-half.

My jury is out. If you're already certain one way or the other, fair enough. For me it's about what he does in the summer.

I was all up for the idea of selling him for the reputed 㿨m plus... but that is till I found out that we will be replacing him with Shane Long, Victor Anichebe, or Denis Stracqualursi. It's been repeated that many times that it must be happening.

As much as any one of those 3 players would have done twice as much as him yesterday I don't think they are the answer.

So as much as he's got the touch of an elephant, the attitude of a 13-year-
pld on an Asbo is sooner keep him than these other players we may have to buy with the 㿨m.

Some crazy kids may come on here and tell me that we could spend 㿅m on a couple of quality strikers who have all round games but I'm not having it after all – people have been telling anyone who criticises Rom's laziness and poor attitude that his replacement will be Stracqulaursi or Long.

But clearly we have managed all these things whilst playing very, very poorly week-in & week-out at Goodison and it is massively fortunate that all these things seem to have happened by pure chance.

Just repeating the bloody obvious for the umpteen time, until we can match the top 6 teams players for quality, we are on a wing and a prayer each season.

Who in our squad would be a starter in the present top 6 sides?
Even Lukaku, 'our star' would struggle, Chelsea maybe, Man Utd maybe, Arsenal probably, Spurs doubtful, our neighbours probably, City doubtful.

The rest of our players apart from a fit Coleman, would have no chance of starting in the above teams.

The whole point was you think we should sack Koeman now. I think that is ludicrous for a number of reasons.

He has only been here nine months which is nowhere near enough to make the improvements we need. He has improved the team to a level about where you would expect us to be given our comparative resources.

We are better defensively and have scored more goals than any Premier League season. The squad of players is stronger than 12 months ago by some distance. He has allowed some young players to develop.

We have been averaging two points a game for half a season. It would cost us another 㾸m and another manager has to start again.

Are we near Champions League football? no certainly not. Do I think with some good recruitment we could be in the next two seasons? Why not?

As I've said before, you may well be right in the long run, he may not make the progress required. But to have taken that view already is premature in the extreme.

I'd still take him over Robles or Stekelenburg.

Jagielka and Williams were very good. Mason played well but he is not a right back. Jonjoe Kenny is a natural fit in terms of style but I suppose he is untested at that level.

Rom didn't win a header against Collins and didn't get angry. He was happy to be bossed.

That stadium is impressive but it is not a football stadium. I was behind the dugouts so closer than most but still too far away. The West Ham fans have been stitched up.

Of course, we can all guess at the answers but at the moment it's a Sunday afternoon diversion as he ain't going anywhere (as far as I know).

Please don't give me the excuse about he doesn't get the service, he's got 23 goals from that service. Yesterday, he gave the ball back to the opposition practically every time he received it, how frustrating is that for his teamates? It's infuriating. Don't forget, this is supposed to be the £100 million man!

Don't even get me started on his futile attempts to try and head the ball. He is the main reason we continue to struggle in the final third, because attack after attack breaks down when it comes to him. But hey, he scores a lot of goals, except in big games, so let's forget about the many faults he has on and off the field, and slag off the posters that point them out.

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

If so, can you explain to me why we bother watching and analysing these performances if all that matters is the end result? Surely, to improve, you need to analyse the actual performances?

Or is that just plain silly?

I think we have a similar problem. We have a lot of players with goals but only in the low numbers – Lukaku has 25, the next best are Barkley on 5, Mirallas and Coleman on 4 and then the numbers drop.

Chelsea have Costa on 17 and Hazard on 14. Spurs have Kane on 20, Alli on 16 and Son on 12. We need players like that who can add to Rom's numbers.

Kevin Rowlands is right – he gets plenty of the ball when he shows for it but more often than not loses it. No one would dispute how good he is when he's in on goal but we need to play to those strengths, and have someone when he's not free to step up and punish teams who are more interested in marking Rom out of the game.

Rom's very good at what he's very good at but we need more in the team to make up for his shortcomings.

Colin, you mean like he gets behind the team, fans and club in his way too often press releases or conferences? No, I'll give that a miss, thank you.

If or rather when Rom goes, we have a massive hole to fill regardless on your view of his overall performances, namely goals, he has 24 next come Ross, Mirallas & Seamus with 4.

Everton's problem is that we lack a goal threat from the rest of the team. It's okay for defenders to chip in with 2 or 3 goals each but we need more from midfield & support strikers/wingers. Yesterday is a prime example.

Barkley is a key question over the summer, he is not likely to suddenly become the player that will score 10+ goals a season we need as a No 10. So do we sell or let him play a little deeper to give extra creativity.

I do not see any of the current squad filling the goals void either, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin have potential but that is all it is at present, our need is now.

As many have said both from within the club and on these forums, this transfer window is critical for the club if we are to move forward.

Let's just hope that we really do have the cash and more importantly, the ability to use it wisely I don't envy them the task!

When Lukaku does play, everything goes through to him, whether this is hampering other players I do not know, most seem weary of not playing the perfect pass to him.

Up until this season, I have accepted his constant whinging of Champions League football, forgetting the very players we have, who have fed the guy goals to put him on course for the golden boot.

We all know the squad needs strengthening but weeks ago, with the season still going, he states he will not be signing his contract.

Why not wait until after the final league game and tell the club then instead of now,with matches still to play?

If we bring players in next season and Rom stays, the first hiccup we have and he will be wanting away again.

We could keep hold of the guy as we are entitled to; whether that will boost dressing room morale should we start poorly, God knows. My personal feeling, he has already made his mind up. Get what we can and bring in a striker who will do more than score goals, who will supply teammates, will run about in those big games, go looking for the ball if needed.

So who does that leave? Spurs aren't interested, Chelsea have other targets, Arsenal won't be in the Champions League, Liverpool? No chance. PSG might be his only way out but they haven't, apparently, shown any interest so far.

I think you're stuck with Rom for another 12 months, which is fine with me, btw.

We seem to be mediocre away, Koeman's tactics seem problematic away, Lukaku is clearly not performing well away, and other players like Barkley are doing similar.

So, yes, Lukaku has a problem away, but so do the team. Surely you're not putting the mediocre away form mainly at the door of Lukaku? And surely you're not criticising his home form? Or are you, that was my question?

It must be Barkley's fault that my football bet went down. Unbelievable.

Although in fairness he did say everyone in football should volunteer to take a 20% pay cut - he just forgot to put his hand up and go first.
Support; overwhelming . Achievement : Nil.

Martinez's wages - Est £12m .

Although he did demonstrate the "feeling for the club" by taking us through the courts for his compo (£10m ? )
Support; overwhelming . Achievement; Nil.

Koeman wages £6m per year . . .for three seasons.
Although he has shown he is a loyal man at Southampton (not) and he is a big name who can "attract players" - just as long as nobody else bids for them.
Support; Overwhelming. Achiement; A better level of fuck all than Martinez brought.- Apparently

Three complete shysters. I don't know what their exact combined wages were but £70m would be in the right post code. All three served up shite and all have failed miserably to get a result at the ground of a club who have finished top four ... in fifteen years!!!

We as a club make these mercenaries the richest losers in sport. Moyes took the piss for years, Martinez didn't just take advantage of the naivety of our board, he took half the fucking fan base for a ride ... "Roberto had a dream" ... fuck me.

The writing is on the wall is in big fuck off bold letters. The current manager has repeatedly demonstrated that he lacks the necessary courage and nouse to take us forward. Yet once again I hear cries of "give him a fucking chance" "He's a big name who can attract big players" ... what, like Ashley Williams? Bolasie? Valencia? Stekelenburg? It may have escaped your notice, but the guy is struggling to hang onto the players he has now!

Moyes / Martinez? It's them again...

I'm resigned to the fact that we are going to have to waste another two years before we try again.

"Appointing from within is so last year..." Sigh

"Let's get away from this nonsense that we are brilliant at home. Yes, we've had a lot of good results there this year, but the performances have been less than impressive and the points tally at home glosses over what has been a fairly average season on the pitch."

I wholeheartedly agree that, in the main, performances have been less than impressive, be it home or away. It is hard to recall when Everton was 'at it' for the full 90 minutes in any one game this season.

And you know what, Ciaran? I find that hugely encouraging. Why? Because our home form is formidable, with a very impressive points tally, goal return and shut-outs.

Imagine what all those numbers would look like if and when the performances are even better than currently on offer?

And imagine if the current poor home performances as correctly labelled by you (a view I concur with) could be taken on the road and converted into similar away results?

Then imagine both home and away performances improving to a level you seemingly demand. Wouldn't that be something to behold and revel in?

If you were chairman of Everton Football Club, you would never accept 2nd best. You are amongst esteemed men like Peter Swales, deadly Doug, and Massimo Cellino and would get through managers quicker than passing a dodgy vindaloo the morning after a night on the bevies.

Even these football legends wouldn't sack a manager who has lost 2 in 17 and, until a couple of weeks back, was the top of the Premier League for form in 2017. I doff my cap; nil satis nisi optimum.

Who would you hire as manager, Darren?

If he wants to move then good luck to him, but keep bleating on and on through each season when the transfer windows are closed about wanting Champions League football is wearing thin and not helping.

Everton Football Club are bigger than Lukaku, those fans that turn up every away game are bigger than Lukaku. It's time he put aside his wanting a move until the season is over; I think Everton Football Club and it's fantastic supporters deserve at least that.

So what do we call someone who would rather point out a problem than find a solution?

What might their name be?

I don't care who our manager is, we are not a top 6 club more a top 10 team with this squad. Add any two of say de Bruyne, Sanchez, Hazard or De Gea to our team and now your talking... Problem is, as things stand, they won't sign for us which shoots that option down.

Same old, same old.

Lukaku should keep his trap shut and let his boots do the talking. If we get an offer acceptable to us, he goes, simple as. Until that happens he is our player and we will have to suffer his Belgian interviews.

Ray, it's hard to accept but you're right, we don't have a top 6 squad – yet.

What would you call somebody who thinks the problem IS the solution?

What might their name be?

Got a few suggestions if you get stuck.....

The question is, how to address it. And so far, Koeman (who has done well overall so far) hasn't got to grips with that side of our game. The home team will always put the emphasis on attack. The away team will always put the emphasis on containment an counter-attack. Throw in all the other inconsistencies such as luck, refereeing, run of the ball, injuries, form, specific teams characteristics, bad day at the office syndrome etc., etc., and so on, and you start to get a picture of the challenge.

Koeman and his crew must apply their undoubted experience and skill and come up with the goods sooner rather than later. The problem must have an empirical solution just as the Anfield (away game) fiasco.

Surely you must yourself get frustrated at constantly moaning and being super negative without ever suggesting how these problems might be addressed. Do you do it as some sort of cathartic cure for your apparent rage at, well everything Everton?

No doubt you'll come back at me and tell me how I'll settle for blah blah blah blah, ad nauseam.

For once, break the habit, go on try.

Who would YOU like to see instead of Koeman. Be constructive. You can slag me all you want in another thread and tell me how worthless I am as an Evertonian but, in reply to this, give me a name to replace Koeman and give us some reasoning behind the name because, if it's just to beat one of the top four at their ground once in a while, then why not Big Sam?

Go on, get over the rage and try, if you can.

He inherited a demotivated, disjointed, unfit squad of which the better players were from the Moyes days and obviously getting a bit up in years.

With a net spend of about not very much and some serious injury issues to key players, he has in a short space of time brought about a change that means the unbiased media consider us a threat to the so-called Sky 6 again.

Much as though I admire Unsy and what he has achieved with the Under-23s, I don't feel he is ready to manage the big personalities needed to break into the top 4.

When Koeman was appointed, I did have a preference for Emery but I feel Koeman has done an astounding job that will lay the foundation for a very successful future.

The good thing for me is that, unlike the Spanish bullshitter he calls it exactly how he sees it, and will not tolerate poor application.

So, Darren, there you are – pull that one to pieces.

I'm struggling a bit with your logic, not uncommon to be fair but there you go.

What have previous managers got to do with Koeman? How is the performance of Moyes or Martinez in the slightest bit relevant?

Maybe you could have brought up Walter Smith or Mike Walker. Fuck it – what about that Gordon Lee fella.

"The current manager has repeatedly demonstrated that he lacks the necessary courage and nouse to take us forward." Well that's not quite true is it Darren. We have lost 2 games in 17. We have however repeatedly won 8 home games. We have repeatedly kept clean sheets, 13 this season as it happens.

All this blather about 'courage' is just that, blather. He called it yesterday about right, we were rubbish. And it's not the first time but, guess what, that's what happens. You judge it in the round.

If we are still 7th next season on 60 or so points then it's no progress. But this year it represents progress.

You have painted yourself into a corner as far as Koeman is concerned. Anyone calling for a manager to be sacked who has gone half a season in his first year averaging two points a game lacks nouse (sic) as far as I see it.

If you can play so good at home, why change it away? It's the same playing field, different surroundings... but still grass they are playing on with the same team mates alongside them.

Belief and a bit more adventure will be enough, stick to the same style playing away as home.

To be honest, I'm not sure how well any manager would do with the players we have. I think Koeman has done a pretty reasonable job up to now. Has it been great? No – but it's a big improvement on our last manager.

We would all like instant success but, after the mess our former manager made of the club, it's going to take a bit longer than 9 months to get the team he wants with the right attitude. A lot of our players just don't have the right attitude. The older ones like Jags and Bainsey and Coleman do, they will actually put the effort in week after week.

Sometimes, like all 3 of those players have encountered, players go through poor form but you could never doubt their commitment and say they are just going through the motions. Barkley, Lukaku, Mirallas, Deulofeu all play when they can be bothered.

I'm sure they will say that they put it maximum effort every week but imo they don't. They coast and play when it suits. It's all very well for posters to continually make excuses for them, especially Barkley and Lukaku, but if you want to be the creator or the self styled superstar then you have to make sure that your effort and attitude is beyond reproach. You have to turn up every week not just when it suits or at home where you are idolised.

Barkley and Lukaku aren't rubbish as some suggest. They are just not as good as some would have us believe. They are not the answer to our problems. Neither perform when it matters. For those just content to blame Koeman for away performances then look at the team that started yesterday. Wasn't it pretty much the same as has started home games recently?

Now maybe Koeman has asked them to be slightly more cautious away from home but you're not telling me that he tells them to completely go into their shells, not be able to pass a ball, not to have a shot on target, tell your main striker, a big hulking 6 foot plus man to get bullied by any old shite defender and stand there and wave your arms about, not to tackle, allow the opposition to take control ffs the players are just not good enough or consistent enough.

Maybe it is unfair to point the finger at Barkley and Lukaku but they are the stars. They are the ones you look to, to do something different. They are the ones that the more limited members of the team look to to be inspired. That's what good players do.

Say what you like about slippy G but he could drag that RS team kicking and screaming into a game. You don't need to look any further than the 2005 CL final. Who have we got that could even remotely do that? Absolutely no one. Lukaku is all about Lukaku, Barkley, I fear will just never be top class. They have their moments but will never, imo, be able to consistently delivering when it matters on a regular basis.

The side Koeman put out at the RS was considered brave by many, with hindsight misguided, but the experienced players again went missing. Barkley and Lukaku may as well have not been there. Same at OT when between them they managed to fuck up opportunities to put that game to bed. Semi final last year, Lukaku completely fucked up again. Barkley crying in the tunnel at half time, ffs grow a pair.

This is why we are 7th Darren, not due to Koeman being incompetent, but solely down to the players just not being good enough and the so called star players actually not being such star players. Not having anybody to call on to inspire the team and lead by example, having players who lose their bottle on the big stage and away from home, just not being good enough on the field.

Koeman has started the cull and I would expect more to leave in the summer. He can't just get a new team in, it has to be done gradually. He may not be the answer, we will have to wait and see over the next couple of years but it sure is way too early to judge with the squad he inherited after a short 9 months.

Being the best of the rest is probably about right at the moment. The fact that until the players lost their bottle at Anfield and Old Trafford we were still in with a chance of breaking into the top 6 is a testament to how well he has done with those limited players.

What is it going to take? Morse code? Semaphore? Hieroglyphics?

How many ways can you make your point before you have to accept the person you are talking to can't or won't hear what you are saying?

If you don't understand the point ,WTF are you doing contesting it?

I offer an alternative, but you are so busy disagreeing you don't know who it is.

You have two choices: read the posts before you charge in with your daft challenges, or continue to embarrass yourself.

A puzzler for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's a different name entirely to the one on the fucking paycheque from Everton FC.

Since when was it in the remit of a fan to formulate a solution to poor performances and even if such a problem solving, non-financially incentivised, individual hit upon a 'eureka' moment, how could they even begin to put their 'big idea' into motion?

Just get on the blower to Moshiri?

Commission the Jim Henson Workshop to come up with some well convincing Koeman full body prosthetics, go to sleep listening to 'The Soothing Seashore Sounds of Steve McClaren' (six hours of "Shhhhh... Shhhhh... Shhhhh... shorry can't do sheagull shounds... Shhhhhh... Shhhhh... der-der-derderdun-dun-dun-dun... Guyshhhh, that was an ice cream van playing 'Greenshhhhleeves... Shhhhhh") to perfect the 'Dutch accent', stalk the real gaffer around the golf course and snatch him up while he's berating some arl granddad for his bollocks backswing, before bouncing (okay, 'marching'; don't want to give the game away from the get go) into the away dressing room and announcing, "Boys, this week we're going to be doing something completely different"?

We already struggle to attract top players with Koeman (respected all over the world!). Most players wouldn't even have heard of him as a player, let alone a coach or manager.

Man City's net spend in the previous 2 summers is bigger than ours throughout the entire history of the Premier League. We are a long way behind and have a lot of catching up to do.

You cannot dismiss how much money the teams above us have spent. Why does anyone expect us to be above those teams? Unless we buy better players than them, why would we be better than them next season?

Who is the miracle manager that can make that happen? Guardiola and Mourinho are supposed to be two of the best in the world. Man City and Man Utd are more attractive clubs than us. They have outspent us/Koeman massively... and yet some feel we should be higher than them?

7th is where we should be and after the previous 2 seasons, I am grateful to Koeman for getting us there.

Next season I hope we can challenge those above us, but I don't 'expect' us to be ahead of them. What are Moshiri and Walsh going to do that their equivalent in the top 6 can't?

Hope and dream, but be rational. It's going to take a few seasons. We are Spurs 5 years ago.

In saying that, Jay's post at 250 was very rousing.

The days of Moyes along with Bolton & Villa being our main rivals are long gone. The League has developed at a frightening pace, and we are struggling to keep up. Just as Martinez demonstrated, if the players are not 100% behind the manager, you can sink like a stone. Look at Mourinho and Chelsea.

You are on a certain winner slating any Everton manager, the odds are 1/20 he won't be able to take us to the promised land.

Suggest a solution as an alternative manager to Koeman. Suggest it merely on here, not to the club, suggest it as an alternative to merely ranting about how bad the present manager is.

At the end of the day, John, constantly berating the present manager amounts to no more than letting off steam. It's merely moaning in public.

Some of us come on here to swap ideas, to comment on all things Everton, and sometimes to listen to the views of others and maybe agree with some of them and disagree with others.

It's not anyone's remit as such, but it makes for more interesting interaction than a constant diatribe of "He's a coward, he's shite, he's not got any nous, etc etc"
Far better, surely, "He's shite, and I think (insert name of alternative here) would do a much better job because... etc etc.

I must admit I didn't want to trawl through all your posts to see if you had actually named someone because I'd read enough of them to be honest.

I apologize for the oversight on my part but I just couldn't face it.

So Unsworth it is! He's done a great job with the Under-23s.

Ronald Koeman was hand picked by Moshiri because he wanted a manager who is known in world football. Moshiri knows we need to raise our profile in the game and he recruited accordingly. How could we escape the poor relations tag with a nobody manager like Unsworth?!

The RS and Manc clubs all have name managers now – Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp and Koeman reads a lot better than when Unsworth is in the sequence...

Darren, you accused others of being like wide-eyed 8-year-olds on this thread, but you need to catch yourself on there. You're being very naïve and child like to think David Unsworth would break us through the glass ceiling in today's game. Maybe in the 80s and 90s but we're a world away from those times.

I'd rather judge after the summer transfer window and see what next season brings.

However, in my view it comes down to this: How long do you give a coach? I think you have had it in for Koeman since day one. Fair enough, I felt that about Martinez. But... do you honestly believe that now is time to judge? Surely you can have the patience to give it till next Christmas at least.

I understand that short-termism is life at the moment but you are an Evertonian and as such, patience, tolerance and... well more patience should be part of your DNA by now.

Koeman is it, for now. In my opinion he is the right man. I believe he will bring us success but when turgid shite is served up, like yesterday, when coaching shite is demonstrated, as in the derby, I will not come on here and excuse it.

Also, I think comparing what Koeman earns to what Unsworth might have earned is irrelevant.

The bloke notices what looks like an oil lamp discarded in the gutter. He picks it up, and starts wiping the dirt off it. A genie pops out of the lamp, and says the usual things that lamp genies say, giving the bloke one wish.

The bloke explains about the dog, says he loves his dog, and tells the genie his wish, that his dog be restored to his past youthful vigour. The genie looks at the dog, shakes his head, and explains that this task is too much even for his considerable powers. He asks the bloke to choose a different wish.

The bloke tells the genie he's an Evertonian, and that he and his fellow Blues on ToffeeWeb have been trying to fathom a problem that their team is having. He explains about how good the home form has been, and how mediocre the away form has been, and that nobody on ToffeeWeb, or the Everton manager, has identified a solution to this problem.

He says to the genie that this is his new wish, that the genie identify a way of making Everton's away form as good as the home form. The genie looks thoughtful, rubs his chin, and says, "Let's have another look at that dog".

Koeman was selected by Mr Moshiri, whereas Moyes and Martinez were the anointed ones of Boys Pen Bill.

Mr Moshiri has mega-cash personally and a track record of success in acquiring it, unlike BPB.

He has also gone very far down the road to securing a site for a new stadium, which BPB wasn't able to do.

He has, or it seems he will obtain, funds to build it, unlike BPB who was daunted by 㾾mill.

The removal of that phenomenal Spanish clown occurred immediately after he bought in. Very quickly thereafter players nobody rated were moved out too.

New players were signed but he expressed his dissatisfaction, as did Koeman, about the disappointing reach of that recruitment. That strongly suggests no such lassitude this summer and a lengthy rest on a beach instead, I pray, for BPB and Elstone.

Something significantly better has happened this year than in the past two seasons. We're seventh, an improvement, despite the inadequate signings Darren alone seems to identify. But if he's right in decrying them, what else might have improved us given that Koeman is also, according to Hind-sight, pants? And although it's only 7th it's en route to 6th, 5th, 4th and so on, which is the path the teams above us took.

I'm not expecting an answer from Darren because even naming a potential to Koeman seems a task too far for him but, if he is truly claiming to have the insight of a sage maybe he can add it to his "onion-ness" ('cause he makes me cry – laughing) and perhaps give me and the other deluded fans a good stuffing.

On that basis, I see no need yet to change the manager, let's see what targets come in in the Summer, the squad was unfit and took a while to get back up to speed last Summer.

Let's judge Koeman next season, he has a full summer to get the squad fit and bring in players, for me too early to even think about changing the manager.

He was left with an unfit squad, he's got rid of a lot of the deadwood, once we strengthen in the Summer, that will be the time to judge Ronnie next season, for me he's doing the right things and trying to rebuild the shambles Martinez left us.

Miracles? There was me thinking Phil ('Pip', 'Fizzer', 'Floaty Fanny Pass') Neville went a bit over the top when he described Koeman as "the signing of the season". If we finish 7th, then I think he's basically done about as well as was expected. No better, no worse.

People were constantly claiming throughout the last 18 months of Martinez's time that he was a weak, badly underachieving, washing-powder, ball-brained, bumble-fuck and simply having someone competent at the helm would go a hell of a long way towards sorting shit out straight away.

Koeman has been nothing if not...competent.

He hasn't done anything revolutionary. His signings have been largely unimaginative/uninspiring. He went back to basics, tightened things up and instilled more of a work ethic. We look much more of a team now, rather than the motley rabble we were.

Confidence at home has been well and truly uncorked, but attempts to prise it out away have been hampered by an overly cautious hand and a bemused look of 'stubborn bastard's stuck and is just not having it'.

If I had to grade him here and now, I would give him a '6 out of 10'.

No 'miracles' whatsoever, but a solid if unspectacular start and something to build on going forward.

Isn't it a bit of a meaningless, circuitous routine that has been run through many times before? The names might change as the years go by, but that's about all. Throwing a name into the mix doesn't prove anything or add anymore weight to words of criticism. 

Someone proffers a name, some say "Cor yeah, he's class", others "Nah, he's about as welcome round these parts as nob cheese". If it is a manager with a proven track record of success, someone will pipe up with "Well, why would he come to 'little old Everton?" If he's 'unproven', he hasn't got 'the pedigree' or put in the miles to be handed the keys to a "massive club like Everton".

You could make a case for almost any manager in the world who hasn't yet tainted their reputation beyond repair, but there's absolutely no way of knowing for sure whether such a suggestion would prove to be shrewd or shit-spewed without it ever transcending the realms of the hypothetical and becoming reality. 

You're right mate, on all counts there. To be honest I was just genuinely interested to know who Darren's alternative was as I really hadn't seen any posts mentioning Unsy.

For what it's worth, I believe we have made progress under Koeman. An increase of four league places may not be the instant meteoric rise some naively, in my opinion, expected but if we improve by half as much next season and then half as much again then it's job done for Koeman.

I think we all accept that to get us from 11th to 4th in one season isn't realistic really.

One wish, of a variety no more magical than the confines of modern veterinary science may merit? What a jip.

Everyone else in the world walks away with three wishes.

Unless you rub one out in full red shite regalia and then you probably receive four.

What a Classico. Hope everybody stayed up and watched that. Magnificent.

The only experience he had with Everton was to get a result with his previous team. Until he was brought in (I think July) he had not worked with any of the players or backroom staff, so he started off more or less with a clean slate.

We are now in 7th place, most probably in Europe, with a new owner, project for a new ground and only a few more games to go. To judge him after less than one season is to me reverting to panic firing when you are struggling against relegation.

Finishing in 7th place this season he has made, as the saying goes, a rod for his own back. Let's see how he prepares for next season, how he handles players who say they want to leave, who he brings in to either replace them or provide quality support so they decide to stay, and how we do in the domestic cups and Europe, to see if the improvements we have gained this season continue.

Note, Man City signed one of the supposed premier managers in Europe, have ownership that are worth 10 times the wealth of our new owner yet he hasn't exactly set the league on fire.

Question: Who do the people who think Koeman should be fired think we must replace him with? And do you think he will leave his present club if we ask?

Now we want to talk proper world class, just watched the greatest that ever played imho win El Classico, the man is a pure pleasure to watch.

It was a feast of football for everyone who watched it with heartbreak for the Real fans at the death... slightly different to the boring efforts of yesterday's game at West Ham.

We really do have a long way to go.

Well, Lukaku certainly thinks he's good enough to play for Barca or Real Madrid, doesn't he. Obviously we know different.

Right... let's see which one comes in for him first in the summer

Messi decided he really wanted to play tonight.

Looked like they'd blown it but the wee man is far from finished.

22 red cards for Ramos according to the deplorable Palmer and Armstrong on commentary. Gerry is thee worst co-commentator of all time.

Just celebrate the incredible wonder of a game like that and don't get too tangled up in comparisons.

It's like watching a Cameron Diaz movie then glancing along the couch and gettin' all upset.

He is sticking with who he knows but, once our finishing order is clearer, I am sure they will get a run out.

To my mind he's now firmly established as #2 of all time. Better than Maradona. Better than CR7 or Zidane or Cruyff. Behind only Pele.

Immortal.

If he wants to manage the first team he needs to get out of his comfort zone and prove it somewhere else before he's considered for the main job.

Just saying. No offence meant.

The usual criticism is that he hasn't done it in the World Cup. I suppose that has to be acknowledged. I would agree with your view, though – he defies the law of averages.

I suppose it's all subjective at the end of the day. The trio of Messi, Suarez and Neymar is the best strike combo I've seen.

We've come (down!) a long way from the days when we could say we had arguably the finest midfield in the world. I still think about what might have been if Ball, Harvey and Kendall had been England's midfield, and particularly the spectacle of them against Gerson, Rivelino and Clodoaldo. That would have been something to behold.

But I agree that Messi is possibly the best ever at club level.

But I do get your point.

Woughly to the gwound.

I certainly don't think Koeman has performed "miracles" by any stretch of the imagination, but, based purely on results if not where we have ended up on the table, it has been a better-than-average season in my estimation.

On the face of it, 7th place (where we are going to likely end up) is no great shakes, but if we we end up somewhere around 65 points (if we can get a couple of wins out of the last four games, a reasonable assumption) it must be remembered that pre-Martinez that figure was our highest-ever Premier League points season tally.

In 2007-08 65 points was enough for 5th place... and comfortably five points clear of Aston Villa in 6th. Much like 2013-14 when we got 72 points in Roberto's first season, we've been as much undone by how increasingly un-competitive the premier league is becoming, and how the gap between the new "top six" (or "top seven" if you want to include us) and the bottom ten or so clubs is widening.

This season WBA has just 44 points, only four points above what is perceived to be the minimum amount required to stay in the premier league, and yet – a month before the end of the season – they are in eighth place! Quite an incredible statistic which highlights just how difficult it is for the bottom half of the league to stay competitive with the top half.

Generally 75 points is good enough for Champions League football in any season, so we're not really that far off. And if a place good enough for European football at season's end had been offered to Evertonians at the start of this season, I think most would have taken that as a successful first season under Koeman.

It's there staring us in the face – 7/20 .

No doubt the fella can bring others into play. But he is almost a mobile as Rom, similar work ethic and gets most of his goals from crosses and high balls, not one Ronko would pick me thinks?

I agree. My post now appears a little too harsh on...err...Roberto.

My original description of him was a "weak, badly underachieving, washing powder ball brained, bumble fuck" ('washing powder ball' being one of these light-weight, tossed about all over the shop, unable to keep their head above water, thingymabobs:

Link)

Now, after Michael or Lyndon's edit, it appears as though I'm not only claiming Roberto was weak and underachieved massively, but that he also had gonads for grey matter and (worst of all) he was "washing-powder".

"Oy, Martinez!! Washing Powder you were mate. Proper washing powder. Not Persil neither. The cheap shit that gives you chemical burns and makes your best clothes smell like the Bingo!"

Washing powder? Even I don't know what that particular 'insult' is meant to mean ("What I think you must have meant John, was that he started out all Bold, before he wet himself and began frothing uncontrollably. Right?")

"The removal of that phenomenal Spanish clown occurred immediately after he bought in."

Er no it didn't. Wish it had. It took three painful months – during which we endured a run of 10 horrible games where we only won once – while Moshiri no doubt had to argue the toss with Boys Pen Billy to finally and reluctantly get him to see sense before the final game of the season.

Very quickly thereafter players nobody rated were moved out too.

Er... no. Firstly, it took almost two months to get Koeman in. Remember how reluctant he was? Then, Pienaar, Hibbert and Osman were already gone (remember the 'shock' of their departures?), and he didn't want to pre-judge too many of the players he didn't know, but it was too late to make any impression on Stones, while he did make snap decisions on the likes of Niasse, Garbutt, McAleny and Tarashaj pretty quickly. But the real culling did not happen until January of this year... almost 12 months after Moshiri bought in.

On the whole... things have happened just far too slow. Too slow kicking Martinez out of the club; too slow getting his "hand-picked" choice, Koeman, established and functional. Far too slow acting in the transfer window to strengthen the squad... leading to the highly embarrassing Sissoko fiasco.

My bent, is towards an early bath for Ronko, but I haven't closed the door on him totally. He has earned a second season at the helm. By that he gets to start the season in charge.

Question is now as the tenure of managers gets shorter in general, my patience has worn thin on several occasions after decades of expectations being lowered to that of a snakes belly. Has the tenure of an Everton manager changed in step with today's market?

Do we think based on Moshiri's investment, and moves to date he will be patient or with a big summer planned expect Everton to win something, finish in the top 6? If that seems in jeopardy will he give the manager the push?

Given the Everton manager will have a fuck load of treasure to spend, the biggest in the clubs history if we swallow the propaganda, bring its own scrutiny?

So... the object is a "washing-powder ball" (ours comes in liquid form, in this soggy soft scrotal sack that starts leaking as soon as you look at it). As a descriptive of 'brain', you would need two hyphens, viz, "washing-powder-ball brained".

But you then compounded it even more... making the whole thing a qualifier of 'bumble-fuck'. Jaysus... even the hyphens don't cut it at that point: "washing-powder-ball-brained bumble-fuck"... I think you are at this point flying in the face of acceptable sentence structure and should be strongly punished.

No I didn't accuse others of seeing the game like eight-year-olds. I accused you.

At no point did I ever claim Unsworth would break us through the glass ceiling. That's just you constructing yet another strawman argument.

I am saying that (for a fraction of the cost) he would have done at least as well as Koeman.
I Am saying that he is a more adventurous manager and would have a real go at winning .
I am saying that he would be here because he wants to be – not because the club is paying him £6m a year.
I am saying that claims that a man needs to go and serve an eight-year apprenticeship at somewhere are stupid and ill-informed. "Coz its not the eighties, you know" – Wonderful reasoning btw.
I am saying that any success we have achieved in the past million years has been achieved by appointing a card-carrying Evertonian.
I am saying that the policy of bringing in managers from different countries has failed for so long and proven so costly, that perhaps it may be worth considering going back to what made us successful...

Oh and I am saying that you don't need to wait until your house is completely burned to the ground before you call the fire brigade. Koeman will not change. The miserable excuse for football witnessed at just about every ground in the Premier League will be here as long as he is.

The suggestion that he will "attract big names" would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. Can you really imagine a young lad with the world at his feet chomping at the bit to sign for this charmless character? The only thing which will bring players into this club is money. Today's young players don't give a flying fuck who Koeman played for back in the day.

I remember clearly how you stayed devoted to Martinez even when everyone else knew the game was up. I still cringe today when I think about the insults you spewed at those who dared to suggest he was a con man. I certainly wont be losing any sleep over your little digs today.

As the tubby tatty bushed bandido from 'The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre' might futilely try and justify it: "Pffft! Hyphens? We don't need no steenking hyphens (not unless we want our sentence to look like a load of stuttery Scatman lyrics stretching out in front of us)"

"...hyphens...Compound adjectival thingies...hyphens...As a descriptive of 'brain', you would need two hyphens, viz...a qualifier of 'bumble-fuck'...flying in the face of acceptable sentence structure and should be strongly punished."

As far as 'scrape-your-jaw-off-the-floor, sting-in-the-tail, shock-twist, surprise reveals' go (too much?), the sudden 'standing up' of the real John Wilson will surely take some beating. 

Say it isn't so, Michael! Say it isn't so!!!!

However, when I read your #280, and I know it wasn't meant, it made me smile. A hand-picked manager, known in world football, in order to raise our profile. And where did we go? Southampton.

Sorry but the players deserve the lions share of responsibility for the shite served up away from home. I'm not going to go into all the reasons again as I've done so in an earlier post, suffice to say that the players are just not good enough. No heart no bottle.

Where did people expect us to finish? Top 4? In front of both Mancs, and others who have spent vast fortunes? Get a grip, people, we are where we should be. Koeman has stabilised a mess, got the players playing for a full 90 minutes, a feat in itself, now he just needs to get some astute signings to either replace our so called superstars or to give them a kick up the backside. Get rid after 9 months? Do me a favour.

Stop getting so worked up man. You'll give yourself an ulcer.

When managers are 'hand-picked' by a rich new owner, they don't tend to be sacked after 9 months, especially when they have (slightly) improved the team.

If you forced me to have a bet, my money would side with Darren. While things are inching the right way, I'm happy to see if Koeman can make a real difference this summer and beyond.

Like you and most of us I have read what those in the club have said re transfer windows and the guarantee of much, much better than last summer. As Dave Ganley states on behalf of all like-minded fans, this squad needs to import some serious attitude along with skill after all. Without it we're doomed I tell you, DOOMED!!!!

Just reminding you that when you showed desperately poor judgement and support for the last manager, your insults, straw man arguments and desperate attempts to be proven right about him, didn't wash.... they don't this time either.

I'd rather debate with people like Mockers and Andy Crooks all day long than the snide comment and echo merchants.

I don't always agree with them (never), but you have to respect a guy who tells you, if he thinks you're talking shite... more importantly (and this is the thing) he tells you why. He offers an alternative view. Know what I mean?

Don Alexander

You didn't get anything at all right. You just dived in with a load of unsubstantiated pap and more than a few strawman arguments.

But that may be because I am an on-line (aw jaysus) wimp rather than hard man.

Whilst I may think Darren has got a bit carried away (almost pigeon-holed) with his criticism of Ronald Koeman and demand for a particular kind of counter-argument (stop it!), damned if I am going to take him on.

No, I will let the hard men slug it out until the next game and I will sit here and ponder if "pigeon-holed" will get me a ticking-off (oh for gawd's sake) from Michael K.

You are like a rubber ball... you keep bouncing back for more.

Even though you are a minority of one asking for Koeman to be sacked. You have taken yourself down a cul-de-sac of stupid, and the only way you know how to get out of it is by attacking others. I think you need to read through your own messages before you start calling other people childish and snidy.

I'm sorry, you're quite right. You didn't say anywhere that you'd like to appoint David Unsworth to break us into the top 4. I thought that would be your logic for sacking a manager who has got us to 7th and 10 points clear of the other teams below us.

No, your argument is that British is best and the manager should ideally be an internal appointment, who would be on lower wages. You would risk sacking a manager who has got us scoring goals and conceding few for an untried manager who might not be able to cut it at Premier League level all because of your irrational hatred of the current incumbent. Your reasons don't stand up and you've been found out Darren.

In case you hadn't noticed, Roberto Martinez is no longer the Everton manager. Why are you still talking about him Darren? Oh, yes, you're going to your default argument that people support the manager over Everton FC. That's getting a bit old now. You need to try a different approach, Dazza.

As regards an assessment of Ronald (school report time), I would add in that old schoolmaster's qualifying phrase to what you said. This would then give:

"Six out of ten, effortlessly achieved."

That's what we have to alter above all else. We need to act with speed and incisiveness. I know that there are always complications in life, always reasons why something can't be done promptly, but (in sport especially) the winners are the ones who create their own momentum regardless.

I watched MotD and saw a fantastic cross from Holgate late on in the game just asking to be nodded home from 6 yards, centre of the goal. One CB was going for it with our 'world class' CF with the biggest head in football. Surely he couldn't miss, especially as it by-passed the defender but no, reality stepped in and the coward (yes, coward) pulled his head back and let the ball sail passed his chest with the goal gaping.

I was so shocked that I had to replay it several times to see that I was not wrong and I wasn't. Don't tell me about him having a lack of service. Show a chance like that to a Shearer, a Hickson a Royle, a Latchford, a Gray, a Ferguson or even a Crouch or Carroll or Deeney and the net would have been bursting. That would have won us the game 1-0 so he cost us 2 points in my book.

The man's a bottler! 6-ft 3-in tall and he has not put an arial challenge in since he was knocked out scoring his first EFC goal, ironically away against West Ham. All his headed goals have been uncontested. Watch him from high balls from the keeper. He jumps early and keeps his head well away from the ball to try and look as if he's making an effort. He is scared of getting a CB's nutting. A coward!! Koeman must be able to see it!!

I, like all other blues, appreciate his finishing, when he can be bothered but I'd take the money and spend it on strikers who give a shit and show some grit and have an all round game.

Tin hat pulled well down now awaiting the fallout from all his excusers!!

Grrrr.... he does my head in!! Sorry but he just does.

Great finisher though, I'll give you that. However, he should have scored 30 league goals this season.

Hopefully the club have a path set out with him which sees him take the first team reigns at some point.

Moyes and Martinez were too comfortable for too long. They outstayed their welcomes, and benefitted from the club not having an obvious replacement. Both Martinez and Koeman were not appointed immediately after their predecessors left. Next time it will be different, with Unsy ready to step in.

What is more, Koeman will surely not be given the same luxury to linger like a fart in a lift should he fail to push us on next season. We have a strong replacement already within the club. Unsy already has a few admirers in the fan base and will surely have admirers at the Board should he win a trophy with his charges.

I can't think of a game this season where Ross especially has grabbed a game, even more so away from home, decided to ignore the plan as it clearly hasn't worked by this point, and just go plain old maverick on us and win the game.

I never feel, despite good performances from Ross, since the calendar read 2017, Ross will go past a couple of defenders and blast it in the postage stamp.

It brings me back to thinking Ross is technically that good but doesn't have the character or mental agility to chance his arm.

Everton needed three points Saturday against poor opposition and no-one had the individuality to win it for us.

Time for Walsh et al to find us a maverick, a genuine game winner.

John, after re-reading post 288, your post at 324 is comedy gold.

Let's tackle your foolish points one by one:

1) I'm not in a minority of one, that's just childish wishful thinking compelling you to talk out of your rear end – again. There will be a lot of Evertonians who didn't want Koeman in the first place and there will be lots of others who don't want him now – Breaking news: the dozen or so posters on this thread, do not represent Evertonia in its entirety.

2) I refer to Martinez because you tried exactly the same shit when he was boss, trying to isolate people with a different opinion with this mindless "minority of one" crap. It's both snidey and childish and, like I say, it wont wash this time either.

3) You fool nobody by saying "you are quite right" and admitting you made the bit up about me claiming Unsworth would get us top four. You didn't do it out of good grace, you did it because your latest strawman argument was exposed. You were telling porkies and you were called out.

4) Undeterred by having to admit your latest strawman argument had been exposed. You then astonishingly go straight into another "No, your argument is that British is best" ... What are you talking about lad? are you incapable of having a debate instead of creating an argument? ... "British is best"? ... where the fuck do I say that? Barcelona have a long history of appointing people with an historic association with the club, Are they all fucking Spanish???

I offered an opinion; I did not address it to anybody and, when challenged to name the guy I would give the job to, I named him and I gave a whole list of good reasons why. Your fanboy mentality seems to prevent you from accepting that not everyone thinks the current manager is as wonderful as you do. We have been here before. You were even looking for an argument when I criticised Lukaku the other day. Remember? You made up some ridiculous shite about me slagging off every modern-day player. More lies.

You must go to bed wondering how we don't win the Champions League every year, because you don't seem capable of seeing any faults with any of our players or managers and you are on here frothing at the mouth when somebody else can.

Grow up.

Perhaps he's spent too much time with his NFL buddies in the USA, where the problem of concussive head impacts is an increasing concern, and some studies have linked heading the ball in 'soccer' to the same malady. But you're right – he does head balls when clear of any defenders, so it's probably the risk of clashing heads that he may be understandably fearful of.

'Coward'? Certainly in the context of forebears Andy Gray and Alex Young... yes. But in today's Age of Enlightenment... hmmm. That's a tough call.

I don't usually get caught up on such issues as the game should have been won subsequently, but that should have been a red card in my book. And a penalty of course.

Can anyone identify a winning club that had such a bone-idle, conceited goal scorer "leading" their line? I can't... welcome as his goals, largely against the lesser teams, are.

Wasn't it the ever 'young' Luke Garbutt who let slip about Lukaku not liking to head the ball.....before he himself took a wrong turn on his way back from Wigan, toppled into a wardrobe and started twatting about with that nice Mr Tumnus?

(Seemingly, that poor lad can knock about in Narnia doing nothing for months and months on end,  but when he finally finds his way back out, it's like no real time has passed at all and he's still got a full three years of his contract left to run. Who said life as a professional footballer is the stuff of fairy tales? Talking out of their arse!)

Hahahahaha... and breath. Talk about pot and kettle. That's the funniest thing you've said in a while, Darren.

Now you're just making things up to support your straw man argument . Name one poster who has said they want Koeman to be immediately sacked on this thread? You can't because you're making things up again.

Let's look at your argument of making the internal appointment of David Unsworth. By your own admission, it's not the normal turn of events like getting a manager to improve results and break the top 4. Your reasoning is that we need a cheaper internal appointment?! WTF?! You'll be advocating Jimmy the kitman to come in next, such is your hatred for Koeman.

You would bring in David Unsworth, who isn't a manager of any notable level, and replace a manager who has only lost 2 in 17 and until recently the best league form since New Year. You can keep playing ping pong until this thread closes but you've backed yourself into a cul-de-sac of stupid and just coming up with stupid reasons that several people have called you out on.

Again with the straw man arguments. What is the matter with you? Can you not stick to what has been said rather than repeatedly arguing with things you wish had been said.

Where the fuck did I claim somebody else said they wanted Koeman sacked immediately on this thread? And if I didn't say it, how did I make it up???

You my friend are incapable of having debate, you are either a very poor liar or you are exceptionally stupid.

I have just seen couple of threads where you have barged in with personal attacks without provocation – noticeably on the Lukaku £100m price tag thread. That's not debate, its looking for an argument.

I won't be playing ping pong at all, I will debate with people who want to debate all night long... but I'm done with you, it's becoming too embarrassing.

Naughty Stan, naughty...but very funny!

Irony.

Pure cwass mate!

the original was with Edward Woodward but the later version starred Nicholas Cage. Both versions were in fact called The Wicker man.

As an aside, what do you get if you take all the"D"s out of Edward Woodward?

Now you have finally remembered which film it was, you may want to trawl back to post 343... it's been done, fella.

My boss is an RS. So, weekend wasn't all bad.

Monday was positively radiant.

You want Koeman out! Don't try and jazz things up with semantics – "Oh, but I didn't say it in those exact words" Bollocks mate. You've been found out and now you are backtracking. It sounds like you've now done a 180 because you realise how idiotic you sound suggesting a total novice manager would know his onions.

Jon, there's actually a new Wickerman 2 written the original script writers from the 1st movie. I wouldn't recommend it though. I tried watching it on the horror channel on my freeview. Absolutely rubbish film.

There's been a lot of it about on this thread

"go on name him" ... go on don't give us the problem give a solution" ... 285 "I'm not expecting an answer from Darren, because even naming a potential to Koeman seems a task too far for him" . . . 269 "Go on Darren you've had your invite give us a name"

DH – Err I Guys I already have

"Yeahbutnobutyeahbutno . . we didn't read what you actually said, we just knew we disagreed."

Being in a minority isn't without is LOL moments you know, Stan.

"Okay Darren, you didn't say any of those things I made up, but you deffo want Koeman out and you think Unsworth should be given a chance... Come on... fess up."

All far more entertaining than Saturday's match.

"Cuba. Si!" on Townsend Lane.

"Victory to Viet Cong" by the 10-storey flats in Sparrow Hall.

Some real politicos had access to emulsion paint in those days.

There was a hit record at the time called 'Cookie, where is your comb?'

Catchy or what?

It's not as good but set in Scotland it gets a bit creepy.

What was that from?

That was a series with Dalia Lavi and that bloke from the Schweppes adverts in I think maybe Sam Kydd too.

Can't remember the name though sadly.

Charlie Drake was in a series with an actor called Henry McGhee whose character was called Mr Pugh, pronounced Poo.

But I do recall Poo. Pugh then!

I think you've got it..

Similarly, when I saw the first 'Saint', I said, oh look, it's the bloke from 'Ivanhoe'.

The RS took the piss out of us when we lost 10-4 to Spurs one year.

Chris, Maverick was James Garner, so was Beau his brother?

'Cheyenne', with Clint Walker was a good one as well.

I know, heresy.

I think the theme started "Cheyenne, Cheyenne, will you be lonesome tonight?"

James Garner played Mavericks dad, his Pappy, in the film from the 90s.

That's in the Tory Manifesto now.

I've got a night off, so I'm off for a bevy before the place is heaving with all the other minority of ones.

Late one night at the Linton Travel Tavern:

Partridge: Ripples

Glasser: Flakes

Partridge: It's good this, isn't it? Even though we're basically just listing chocolate bars?

Glasser: Terry's Pyramint, Spira, Aztec, Banjo, Topic

Partridge: I said it was good not great. Good as a general starting point to "Getting to know you/Getting to know all about you/Getting to like you/Getting to hope you like me/Getting to know you... "

Glasser: Snick...

Partridge: WAIT!! "Putting it my way/But nicely/You are precisely/My...cup...of...tea". Not literally. That would be...

Glasser: Snickers, Boost, Biscuit Boost, Coconut Boost, Fuse, Frys Chocolate Cream, Turkish Delight, Caramac, Star Bar...

Partridge: Thank God...I mean, 'Oh my God'...Lynn's here.

Glasser: Bar Six, Logger, a rifled through in advance advent calender, Co op cooking chocolate, Doggy drops, etc etc etc

The Invaders, starring Roy Thinnes as David Vincent.

"You've got to Larf, or else you cry"

"You've got to win, or else you die"

"you need ambition, to reach the sky"

"Oh Davey Unsworth, Champion"

"Dahavey Unsworth, Champion"

Partridge Family, Logan's Run, the Liver Birds, Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width, Are You Being Served? Love Thy Neighbour, On the Buses, The Two Ronnies, Porridge, Magpie, Jackanory...

I'm tired now.

Better than the John Hurt version.

Don't forget, David Vincent a man to long without sleep...

Those were amazing Saturday nights ending with Kenneth Wolstenholme on MOTD.

"They think it's all over..."

And for our fantastic under 23s

"It is now"

"Go and pay your dues in the lower leagues, come back in seven or eight years when you've earned your stripes . . .You just aint ready to get us into the top seven!"

Sighs . . .Checks records to see if any of the top 50 managers in Europe served their apprenticeship with Doncaster Rovers or Plymouth Argyle. . . .

Scans a lifetime of memories for dafter excuses to dismiss a perfectly good suggestion. . . .

Sighs again, fucks off to bed, wondering if the FES will still be still be discussing 1960's telly programs when another club snaps up the only winner we've had for years . . .

Oh and don't panic Unsys going nowhere.

Doberman was ugly, his sister was really ugly, then there was Paperelli, my favourite, he couldn't hold his own shite. Bilko would say to him when he wanted everyone to know something "Now listen keep this to yourself, don't tell anyone else, I know I can trust you," then tell him the secret and five minutes later the whole camp would know.

And he lived up to his name in every way if you believe the actual cartoonists who did the work.

I'm fed up of the times that Barkley slows the game down when receiving a pass, shuffling the ball between his feet, allowing defenders to get back into position before finally losing the ball or playing it backwards. Sure, he has talent, but we've been waiting for some years now for it to flourish.

I heard a rumour that he was off to Spurs to replace Real Madrid bound Deli Alli – he couldn't lace Alli's boots.

Everton Chelsea Spurs

Lukaku 24 Costa 17 Kane 20
Barkley 4 Hazard 14 Alli 16
Mirallas 4 Pedro 7 Son 12
Coleman 4 Willian 6 Ericson 7

For me he has the time up to the League Cup; if we go out early (very possible), then I want him gone!

A competition that's been going for over 50 years and we've made it to just 2 finals! ...fucking shameful, looking at past Winners... jeez many are no longer in the Premier League... but we always crash & burn, this shit has to end asap.