Blues squander two-goal lead after ridiculous Richarlison 'head-butt'

Lookman sat on the naughty step again..?

Any confirmation that he didn't travel down south with the squad?

Did I say I was FUCKING LIVID!!!

Never really started to play. Davies and Coleman are having terrible games and Michael Keane is an accident waiting to happen. I don't know why he insists on pushing up high leaving acres of space for Bournemouth to exploit.

The only player of ours who's having a good game is Gana.

The second half will be hard to watch with ten men. Richarlison should not have reacted but Adam Smith is an absolute disgrace.

Not defending Richarlison at all - it's silly from him (and Smith who didn't do much less). But it's two dickheads putting their heads against each other. Not in any way could you call it a headbutt. In the grand scheme of things - you just book them both and tell them to grow up.

This ref has been picking decisions out all game. As opposed to just refereeing the game.

We are preparing to take a throw in close to their penalty area. He is the nearest Everton player set to receive the ball, with 2-3 yards between him and the Bournemouth defender.

Something is SAID. Richarlison's English is not the best. There is no need at all to turn away from the throw in and walk back towards Smith.

Yes, they both dip their heads into each other. How very macho. It is clearly Richarlison who makes - I accept - a slightly forceful movement with his forehead into Smith.

But why the frig get involved like that and give the ref a decision to make, all the more so when we are in an attacking position?

Really, REALLY dumb by the Everton player for me.

This is going to be a test now. ANOTHER away game we have to play a full half with just 10 men.

It has been very stop-start. We are not playing as well as we were against Wolves. Richarlison was not playing well. Walcott needs to get into the game more. Coleman, I'm sorry to say, like last week against Southampton, continues to be off his game.

It's going to be interesting how Silva plays this in the 2nd half.

What a ball from Pickford

Would you trust Bernard in there?

Saturday has redeemed itself.

Glorious.

Shame really... the injury soured a good game but a tortoise first 40 minutes. Richarlson — what a fanny...

No complaints about the penalty. It was soft but it gets given every time nowadays.

Ultimately what got Bournemouth in the game was a penalty from a nothing ball into the box and a set piece we didn't defend well nor react to. Set pieces look a major problem right now.

Still think Gylfi should have won that for us at the end. That was a very good chance for him.

Hopefully Keane is alright. Shame as he's done ok the last few weeks under a bit of pressure from new signings. At least we're reasonably stocked there now.

No excuses.

Zonal marking... Did anyone mark Wilson? Free headers all afternoon.

Conceded 5 goals in 3 games. Not good enough.

Thoughts on the game and the team in general.

We will never get better playing Baines, Davies and looking to the likes of DCL to save us as none are really good enough for a variety of reasons.

2-0 up you just get Zouma on and put 9 men in our half and hit Theo over the top. Hugely frustrating that we all knew wed conceed with last week's approach. Get fucking ruthless Marco!

Cruising really, some frustrating pssses, but I'm sure this will improve, because it looks to me that Silva is working on this side of our game.

If Richardson was stupid, then what does that make Baines? Captain? He knows Keane is susceptible to the ball over the top, so with us being two up, I thought he could have offered us a lot more discipline.

That said, we are working as a team, and just need more composure and quality, which hopefully is already at the club?

Our defence as a whole is not good. Two up away from home.

Silva has learnt a lesson. Certain players are simply not good enough.

Anyhow, we didnt get beat today so I suppose that a point is just about ok. But only just.

Huddersfield next week. Nothing less than three points is our aim. No bloody draw.

As for Richarlison, I cannot comment. I didn't see what happened. Just in, I missed today's match. We will miss him for a few matches but the rest just have to step up. Lookman should get a game.

And our defence needs to tighten up, but then we have all being saying that for years. Is Silva just like Martinez? I hope not but, as I have said, old habits die hard.

Three games at home now. Get Zouma up to speed by playing him in all. I hope Keane's not out too long. Even if it's nothing he's out on the concussion rule. So it's time to see just how good Zouma is.

I thought we did very well for half an hour of the second half. Then it went silly after that dodgy pen.

Who'd be a blue eh?

But positives first. Once again, Everton played very well 10 x 11.

Really lovely interplay between Sigurdsson, Tosun and Walcott and a thumping finish from Theo who had glanced up looking for support before beating the keeper on his near post.

An absolutely superb pick out and kick from Pickford for Walcott's run which induced Smith's red card. A Bournemouth player attempts to impede Jordan from making the play. The keeper simply pushes him away and launches a wonderful kick, one of many very accurate defence turning passes from Jordan today.

That is the kind of distribution and consistency we want to see more off from Jordan.

Now at 10 x 10 and already 1-0 to the good, very smart play on the free kick, catching Bournemouth dozing and Keane getting the header to double the lead.

Keane's attacking heading from set pieces has improved from last season when he tended to sky a few opportunities. This season, he is attacking the ball with more intent AND heading them down, making it more difficult for the keeper to react and defend.

How we contrived to only draw the game from there bemuses me. We were managing the game so well. Bournemouth weren't threatening at all. Rather, we looked as if we could score more.

Tosun led the line superbly. Theo woke up in the 2nd half. Gana was breaking up play well and moving the ball on well. But it was a soft pen to cough up from a ball that wasn't particularly threatening.

To then concede a 2nd, again from a corner with too many people switched off and not reacting to the play, was mightily disappointing.

OK. Unlike last season when we barely saw a shot on goal all game, we are scoring at two a game so far, but we are still conceding too easily. Improve that and continue with the forward playing intent we have thus far displayed and there could be plenty to enjoy this season.

Finally, I hope Michael Keane is OK. I note some criticism in this thread about his performance. I thought, once again, he had another very fine game. Holgate looked the more skittish of the centre backs today.

Last season under Allardyce if we'd gone a man down we'd have lost 2-0 while "shutting up shop" and never got a shot on target. I'll take the more attacking approach any time.

Would like Tosun to get off the mark. He's been leading the line really well, but needs a goal soon for his confidence.

Game management at 2-0 was terrible. They just started lumping it long to Wilson and we looked all over the place. Set piece defending needs to improve.

Couple that with the likelihood of Bernard coming in for the now suspended Richarlison and Zouma in for the unfortunate Keane I think thats plenty changes for me for the next match thank you.

Maybe Lookman and the under rated DCL to come on from the bench.

The old Moyes tactics of go deep, kick (or head) it anywhere takes control, towards the end of games, and we invite pressure on ourselves and concede.

Silva will get it right but some of the Old Guard might have to move on before we can change this.

Richo lost his head but he is a baby being wound up by guys who know this league. The players in this side who continually keep letting us down are the same players who let us down today... I prefer Besic over Gana any day at least Mo has a forward gear.

Early days in the Silva era but we are still unbeaten and, with a bit of luck, could be joint top tonight.

Referees definitely concern me. Its as if we are not being allowed to join the party. Don't want a new look Everton upsetting the apple cart do we??

Still his shirt to lose and he is offering more in attack this season than last. Suspect that will be the reason he'll keep his place for the next two games where we'll need to break teams down at Goodison.

Will be interesting to see if Bernard gets the nod on the wing now.

Then for the second goal he was placed perfectly to win the ball but he just stood there. He stood waiting for the ball to arrive instead of attacking the ball to win the header. That allowed the Bournemouth player to run in front of him and win the ball. Both goals down to Baines.

It's nothing new. We've watched him stand yards off his man to allow crosses to be sent in with ease for years. And in that first half today Baines was being ripped apart down the left.

As for Coleman, he has been shocking in attack all season. His crossing has been awful. Multiple times he's had great chances to provide a simple ball to a player in the box, twice with only one defender, and he's botched it horribly each time.

He's also been guilty of terrible lacks of concentration, letting the balk roll out of play and multiple times dribbling it out of touch for a goal kick when the cross was on. He can't beat his man anymore and just stalls.

For people saying it's the zonal marking, you need to inform yourself as to what zonal marking is. It is not, as Baines did today, standing in one spot and waiting for the ball. It is about setting the players up in zonal positions before the kick, adjusting as necessary, but not running around and chasing the opposition and dragged out of position before the ball is kicked. It is about getting set up and being aware of the ball and then attacking the ball. Again, not just standing there waiting for the ball like Baines did today.

Richarilson should be fined for this petulance and gullibility. He should know he will be the target of wind-up merchants, he has to rise above it.

Keane & Holgate not solid enough. We need Mina or Zouma in first 11. Side note: I hope Keane recovers okay and is soon on our bench.

Baines is too slow, too weak. Digne needs to come in starting next game.

Coleman needs to up his game. Too many mis-controls, wasted balls and leaving too many gaps. Kenny deserves a chance in the League Cup.

Gueye needs to improve his passing, he's just too average on the ball. Give Baningime a chance in the League Cup, or on the bench.

Tosun is still not convincing. I'd like to see Walcott down the middle with Bernard out wide.

Keane was ball watching and let the forward run off him

He's 34 in December and the energy has gone now from the days he partnered Pienaar to create the wonderful “Bainaar”.

That Leighton Baines is gone and is not coming back and we didn't pay Barcelona good money for France international left back just to sit warming the bench so it's time now to see him start on Wednesday night and again at home to Huddersfield next weekend.

Sentiment gets you nowhere in life and football is no different.

For the record on the Coleman debate, it's hard to ever recover from an injury as bad as the one he acquired last year and being brutally honest he's not looking the same going forward as he once was a few years ago and even at his best he was never as strong defensively as say Tony Hibbert was.

Thought he had a decent game..penalty aside.

In the end a point was a good result bearing in mind we were 10 v11 at HT. But that's got to be the worse game I've ever seen Coleman have for us, what has Silva done to him because his other games this season have been pretty poor too.

I don't know what Smith said but for a bloke who supposedly doesn't speak English it was a stupid reaction by Richarlison and if one had to be sent off then so did the other as both put the heads forward. As for the penalty, it was a none event but why was Baines the wrong side of his man to start.

And what do some of you have against Davies, the lad had a good game and is far superior to do nothing Schneiderlin while you couldn't find Sigurdsson for the first half and if he's worth 45M then heaven help us. I did like the look of Bernard even if stood alongside Pickford he looked almost midget like but his control and awareness of what was around him was most impressive.

Again, Silva's biggest problem is sorting out the defence but then we've been there with Martinez.

What should Keane do, tackle the player, pull him back? The player was running toward where Baines was perfectly positioned. Had Baines simply done what you are supposed to do as a defender, which is attack the ball in the air, then the corner is defended with ease. Sort of like what Keane did when he ATTACKED THE BALL IN THE AIR and was knocked out by Gana.

That's how you defend, you attack the ball. You set up as a team and then watch where the ball is delivered and attack that spot. You don't stand and wait for it to arrive.

We'll be ok under this manager but it won't be a quick fix.

Maybe you are right on some points but Tom Davies is not and I stress this, is not a Premier League footballer, not in a million years.

Can he shoot?
Is he quick or strong?
Head a ball?
See a pass?
Break up the opposition attacks?

No on all the above.

He is very good at making himself look busy doing nothing, he runs around into space where there is no action then arrives where the action is happening too late to have any impact on anything.

He's only 20 but he runs slower than my great grandad and never looks to have any “oomph” about him.

DCL. Can something please suggest to me what he brings. Again when he came on he ambled around. Once ran the ball out of play. I cannot see anything encouraging as to what he adds. Neither has the knack of scoring like Kane or Shearer. Not pacy like Owen. Not skilful like aguero or salah. Not strong like costa.

He just looks to be a passenger and doesn't make any impact at all. Can someone advise anything different ?

You can't attack the ball if you have lost concentration and let the forward run 10 yards off you.
He did the same thing for Wolves second goal

Capable of dynamic transition and smart thinking we scored two very good goals, after spending 20minutes adjusting to the red card. Pickfords pass for Walcott, very good.

Sigurdssons quick thinking for the 2nd, brill!

Whilst Bournemouth changed tactics after the 2nd goal we were guilty of having thought the game was won. Sitting back rather than playing the way that got us the lead we deserved our fate.

Have I ever seen Coleman & Baines play so poorly? Never together. Seamus river danced through the game, his best touches with his head.

But ultimately Baines was exposed as soon as Richarlison was ordered off. Timid, without the strength and option of our Brazilian, Baines looked as poor as last season.

No matter your own hue on today's performance giving up a 2-0
lead is criminal in any circumstances both Silva, who introduced players too late, and the players need to hold their hand up. Not heads obviously that will get you sent off.

On DCL I'll tell you what he brings shall I?

A great impression of Stuart Barlow version 2018.

Hits a shot like a four year old, runs around well but never makes a run that looks remotely threateningly likely to lead to scoring and basically when he has got into scoring positions he couldn't hit a bulls arse with a banjo.

But it's ok because he's under 22 people will have you believe he's “deffo gonna be great in three years”.

Yeah right!

He's not even the player Vaughan or Anichebe were at the age of 20.

Maybe you have just been watching endless reruns of the goal he scored against City 18 months ago, he's done bigger all since that day mate and it's not just me saying it, the vast majority of seasoned match going fans where I sit at Goodison feel the same way.

Until the players learn to manage themselves then manage the game, we will be liable.

Other teams would have seen us off. To have this game an£ contrive to spew it is frustrating.

But based on the last 4 seasons, there's more belief in forward play than for many a year.

I'm not convinced DCL, is gonna ever be consistent, but you could argue, without regular starts it won't happen.

The same for Tom, whom I think is showing signs of improvement and focus, but like DCL, he'll needs regularly starts, else he works on his own focused improvement plan with MS, to make himself the first name on the team sheet.

Plenty to go for, early days, we aren't a dirty side, but I'm waiting for the shite hawks in the media and the MOD troglydite pair of Murphy and Neville to start professing the art of good teams and clean play.

Let's dust down, hope MK, is well, and recovers fully.

Richarlison must learn to control himself, and it will come with time, but he must learn fast. Every week, he's gonna get gouded, and we need him to keep the attacking balance of the team.

Siggy, for me should have scored at the end..

Any news on Keane ? I though he was excellent again today and was made up for him when he scored. I just hope he is ok.

Rich should never have been sent of for violent conduct. A fucking good kicking for his dumbfuckery would have been a far more fitting punishment for his crime
That said there was much to be pleased about today. I noted on the LF that, although we were down to ten men and not playing well, we were still throwing men forward - encouraging.

We shoulda,woulda,coulda, but we gave away a soft penalty and the second ? I've already had my say about zonal. those who are not blind devotees already know there will be more.

I don't think we did too much wrong, Bournemouth are renowned for finishing like Dancing Brave, so the cavalry charge was always going to come
.
A bit frustrating, but we are trying to play again. That's so nice to say after the horror shows of recent seasons.

Disappointed, of course, but the guy who has had to talk me down from all those window ledges every Saturday night these past couple of years can relax an have a bevy tonight

Again, if Baines attacks the ball that is being sent directly at him, do they score? If he doesn't just stand flat footed, as he so often also does while watching his man send in a cross, that ball is easily blocked.

Fantastic first 30 minutes in the second half.

Up and down last 15 minutes.

The game swung on the ref giving them a pen that never was. It was a coming together between Baines and their attacker. Nothing more.

The ref was very poor today and he gave them the momentum at the end.

Michael Keane had his best game in an Everton shirt today. Hope he is ok.

Baines position is a good 3-4 yards OUTSIDE the six yard box, ready to protect the edge of the box from a possible outswinging corner. The role of the taller Keane and Tosun is to head the ball clear in and close to the six yard box. The role of Baines is to clear the ball out, or block efforts from the edge of the area.

Which player you 'blame', I fancy, is whichever player you most want to scapegoat.

You could also blame Gana and Davies who are touch-tight to Ake as the ball comes in, but the goalscorer runs off them and tucks in the rebound.

Baines was unfortunate on the penalty, soft as it was. He cannot be held principally responsible for the equaliser as some are attempting.

And as Stephen Brown wrote, Baines was not the worst full back on the park for Everton today. Seamus was very poor again for the second game running.

Three wins from the last thirty away league games since January 2017.

3 yes THREE in the last 30 yes THIRTY!!

That's a pile of utter rancid shit.

Before the game I thought a draw would not be a bad result. When Richarlison was sent off I thought a draw would be an excellent result. When we went one up I still thought a draw would not be disastrous but was obviously hopeful we would win. At 2-0 up, only a win was acceptable. 2-1 I was fearful. At 2-2 a draw became satisfactory again.

I think, somewhere in amongst all that, I see coming away with a point as kind of ok, we are going to become used to such results under Silva, I suspect.

Such a strange game. 2-0 up and 10 v 10 you'd bet everything on us winning. But a 5 minute meltdown. Just bizarre

I do think silva should have got subs on earlier. Baines was tiring and maybe gone to 5 at the back? Tosun didn't look sharp to me. Still a point isn't the worst thing in the world. 2-0 with 20 minutes to go through jeez

That's two away games we should have won. That said, I love the fact than even in adversity, we're always getting men forward and trying to win games. That's refreshing.

I think everyone accepts he can't fix the years of mismanagement overnight, however, surely there are some things he can do with a tweak here and there.

Many posters have mentioned that more or less the same team that were a disgrace to the shirt last season are showing a vast improvement this season. But has nothing been learned defensively ?

Individual defensive errors can't be legislated for and we have to accept them as part and parcel of the game but how we set up as a unit can.

I have no doubt Silva has good ideas how to set up but until his players come in we have to defend in a way that suits the present players.

We still look suspect and weak at the back, he's had a couple of months to work with the defence and sometimes it looks as if we are regressing not progressing.

Four points dropped from winning positions and all those goals preventable. Not acceptable and no excuse I'm afraid

Again, it's Keanes man.
If he doesn't lose him Baines 5'4"
is not left to win the header against the centre forward 6'2"

He is a poor defender in my opinion.
As soon as Mina is fit he's out.

On a positive note and by way of small compensation my betting banker of the day went in.
Hope you all took my advice

But to be fair they both have a 3 on their back, breathe air and look like twins

But watch carefully people, as the poster said. Deary me. ☹️☹️☹️

Gana is also tiny, but didn't stop him challenging for numerous balls in the air. Maybe someone needs to get in his ear and tell him to stand still, that's not his job. Be like Baines and stand and watch while others come running in front of you to win the ball for you. That sounds brilliant.

Glad you got a bit back on the BTTS bet👍

That's a nonsense response.
Look back at the goal then tell me Keane didn't lose his man.

So I got the identity and name wrong of the player who headed against the post.

Is my description of the play correct? Yes.

Which is most vital in the point I'm making?

Deary me indeed...

But there are positives 2 goals in succesive away games Richarlison and Walcott on the score sheet in 2 of the 3 games played. Also Silva has only been here a few weeks yet the mindset is completely different. Getting these players to go from man to man to zonal will take more than a few weeks.
Yet to see Everton with Digne,Mina,Gomes, Richarlison and Zouma all playing. Change cant happen overnight but I think its fair to say we can see the start of the acorns begging to grow. Beat Huddersfield and we will have 8 points from a possible 12, which will be a solid base to begin with.

So so frustrating to watch but ?

Game 3.

Unbeaten.

I can see happy clapping hope

Digne was just signed before the first match. Zouma confirmed after the window and Mina has a foot injury.

So, with Digne clearly being the left back of the future, with that future hopefully starting this week, that's LB done. Holgate was preferred at the back but was injured all preseason, which Silva spoke about repeatedly. That's why he wasn't in from the start, he missed most of preseason. So that's Jags done now.

Zouma will now be in for Keane alongside Holgate. Mina will be back in a couple of weeks. So what else needs to be done in your eyes right now? Presumably we will have 3 of the back 4 being new players starting next week.

Last week against Southampton we were lucky in the end not to draw. Our midfield and defence are not working as units. The management has had their decision to change players made for them today. The midfield needs a calming influence especially when ahead in games.

For the first time in many years our forward play looks solid with pace. Genk tusun needs to exert his strength more. Sadly there are positives but old weaknesses are still there.

Language, Jay, language.

You're just wrong, I'm sorry. You even said there was only one Bournemouth player in the box. Not sure what you were watching.

Baines is set up just in front of the near post, just outside the 6 yard box. He's standing facing the corner. The ball is sent in and is heading straight at him, but he never moves. The Bournemouth player runs right in front of him and takes the ball.

The Bournemouth player actually pulls away from Holgate first, before the ball is kicked, runs behind Keane and in front of Tosun, then beats the flat footed Baines to the ball. Keane was actually marking a man and was in front of his man.

Yet can only respond with ‘so what' as they cannot hold themselves accountable to the same standard they hold others.

Prefacing a post with ‘Watch the play for their equalising goal carefully', then in a tone as patronizing as it comes, proceed to lecture posters on what action occurs, yet incorrectly so.

So wrong details are okay as it does derail the posters point? Lets hope the poster affords others the same latitude they afford themselves.

Aside from that it's extremely poor we blew a 2 goal lead (again at Bournemouth), time for Silva to dismantle the 17/18 team and bring his own men in.

Faults everywhere, apologists everywhere, we even have a moderator who acts like an extremist and this is only the third game into a season of BIG changes.

There are calls for MORE culling, get rid of the Old Guard - bring in the new, even the walking/hobbling wounded, Baines is fucked, Coleman is showing advances signs of a similar ailment, Jags was/ is/ will always be done. Richarlison is an idiot, Keane was brilliant/ a twat and now a saint.

THIS IS THE 3rd GAME - we have a new regime. What happened to the magic word that was being bandied about pre-season: PATIENCE?

Patience is said to be a VIRTUE but it seems we Evertonians will always moan! Shoot?

But personally I'd have probably taken a point this morning. And I'd have definitely taken one at 3.45pm.

I'm not massively bothered if we finish 7th or 13th this season (I'd be surprised if it was higher or lower) as long as we are playing better football and laying the foundation for a better future. To my eyes both those things are happening.

I'm excited to see our strongest XI playing together under Silva in a few months time.

You know quite well we have been debating Baines involvement in the penalty.
Please don't switch it.

If the squad can miss serious injuries and we can finish with 11 Everton players on the pitch for a change, we'll have a excellent season.
I can see us finishing 6th.

If you saw improvement yet still in a poor game, you are blind.

Some of this stuff is so fucking childish it is beyond belief

"But mummy.. Baines messed up. Make it not happen Mummy."

You've now tried to change the subject as you have done so often in the past. You want to talk about the penalty and not the goal, even though repeatedly you referenced “the goal” earlier? Fine.

The forward runs off of Keane, a ball is sent into the box and Baines runs into the back of the attacker. Nobody is at fault for fouling that player and giving away a penalty other than Baines. Keane wasn't going to win the ball in the air but was adjusting to get between the player and the goal. Then Baines clumsily ran into the back of the forward and it was an easy call for the ref. Baines committed the foul, gave away the penalty while cruising at 2-0 up. No excuse for that.

I don't see anyone calling for their mummy. Just calling for the left-back we signed from Barcelona to now step into that spot for a player who had been on the decline and performed poorly today. Sounds reasonable and logical to me, no?

This is madness. Just perhaps someone can consistently disagree with the view of another.

Let's not get into making the other one a "type"

You know where that ends.

Don't be such a blert.

Pour yourself another drink and chill out.

Anyway, back to the debate. The fact I mentioned one attacker in the box is clear indication of which incident I was talking about.

We also have some of the older players performing poorly. Luckily we have been buying their replacements. Jags has been replaced. It should now be time for Digne to replace Baines. We need players in the team that expect to win.

This was always going to be a process and take time. It was never about one single transfer window. The fact that the manager is saying he is disappointed with a point away from home, after being down to 10 men in both away games is a positive. He is sending the message to the players that 3 points is what is expected.

He's let the usual players start the season to see how it goes, while the new signings get up to speed. It will be key for him to be ruthless in the decisions going forward. A player like Schneiderlin has responded very well to that challenge, surprisingly, but was unlucky to pick up an injury. Overall the positives are easy to see, but it's always disappointing to not get the win when up 2-0.

To shake off the malaise and defeatism at the club is going to take time.

As for Richarlison, he is a marked man, since his solo performances of the first two games. He was beating defenders and causing organisational problems for the defence.

Defenders marking him will be told to spoil his play. Get a toe in, obstruct, spoil his play; even better – wind him up. Richarlison fell hook. line and sinker – into the trap.

At least Walcott is taking the pressure off him, but the rest of the forwards are not. Tonsun in particular looks good, but he is not beating his marker. He lays off balls and links play. This suits the defender that is marking him down to the ground. The defence can keep their shape and forwards running on to his passes are easily dealt with by zonal marking.

These defenders are not the top defenders in the Premier League. If Tonsun can turn and beat his marker this upsets the organisation of the defence. If you can put Richarlison out of the game, there is no other threat than Walcott, in the current Silva selection, set pieces aside.

Everton have played three teams that are destined for the lower half of the Premier League. These teams have exposed Everton's weaknesses. Everton are playing better than last season; they may have players who can come in a improve things, but it's urgent that Silva and his team improve the standard of play by coaching individual players how to best perform in their positions and replace them if they are not capable. There still is a lot of hard work to be done.

On the standard of play of some players in the first three games, Everton will get a hiding down the road against the teams capable of playing at the top end of the table. Arsenal will be the litmus test as usual, even with a new manager,

Two of TW chief apologists for zonal marking arguing about who should have been marking the scorer.

Absolutely clueless!!!

First goal was from a penalty which came from open play, due to Baines clumsily running into the back of the man. Not zonal marking.

Second goal from the corner, Baines was set up right where the ball was delivered, but he remained flat footed instead of attacking the ball. Nothing to do with who is marking at player. One was a stupid penalty and the other was failing to attack the ball in the air.

Now for the context to that post. John repeatedly said Keane failed to mark his man. I said It had nothing to do with Keane marking a man, that the ball was sent directly to where Baines was standing but Baines never attacked it. So in reply to being told repeatedly that Keane wasn't marking his man, I sarcastically asked who was Baines marking while standing where he was.

But then the twist Darren. John said he was talking about the ball that led to the penalty, while I was talking about the corner that led to the second goal.

I'd stick to happy clapping if I was you guys. This tactical lark is clearly not for you.

Two problems as I see it: The midfield doesn't keep possession well enough and we're too mistake-prone at the back. Soft penalty resulting from Baines challenge but did he need to do it? And yes the one on Tosun was at least as debatable. And then yet again poor defending from a corner.

Positives all round and clarity re where we need improvement. Looking forward to seeing the likes of Digne and Zouma.

Two final comments:
- Seamus had a shocker.
- I expected Sigurdsson to do better with the chance at the end

Onwards Evertonians

He was referring to the ball sent into the box that led to the penalty. So what point are you trying to make by copying and pasting individual sentences from earlier posts? As I said, he was talking about that opening goal while I was talking about the second goal.

I couldn't give a stuff what 'system' we play. I get a bit irritated by the argument that zonal marking means that defenders stand still in a space waiting for the ball to come into that space. That's bollocks.

When we have defenders with strength & presence, who can concentrate, who attack the ball, who stay the right side of their man, who actually mean it, we'll do better. And we won't be obsessing with 'systems', we'll be talking about good defending.

It'll take time to gel... Richarlison will learn a lot from that red and I can't see him making that mistake again after been wound up. He'll need to because he's going to be kicked around the place for the remainder of the season. For sure he'll be wound up.

Baines has been a great servant for us but today might see his place gone, a totally stupid challenge that let them back into the match.
All-in-all, I can totally see green shoots... we've come a hell of a long way from the dross we had to endure last season.

Keane was excellent today. What makes you think the new guys will come in and go straight to their best form? Bainsey played well but made a stupid mistake for the penalty. Seamus is not on it but we all know it will come. Knee-jerk gets us back to Square One.

I agree with all about zonal. Never heard a rational arguement to go from having a man on each post, mark man for man, and speed merchant on the half-way line.

If Lookman had been acting like an adult, then he too would have a great opportunity but maybe that train has left the station. We should soon see the new guys integrated into the first team and that should be a good thing.

Can you believe that we are missing Schneiderlin?

Players with cool heads and not those who react emotionally are usually those that go on to become winners. Richarlison can learn from his mistake and hopefully quickly, so too can the team learn that when they are in charge of proceedings i.e. 2-0 up away from home, it is not good enough to retreat and offer the opponents a way back into the match as invariably that's the way to throw points away, and along with it any hopes of achieving things beyond seventh place.

The team is still learning about the managers methods, there are still some new players to come into the team in the coming weeks, but if the defence can't operate with more composure when under pressure all the good attacking play in the world won't help the team get victories, particularly on the road.

Five points is not really indicative of the performances in general but the lack of clean sheets is the Achilles heel that has been with Everton FC for far too long and it is in danger of undermining the progressive side of our game.

I've seen plenty of people saying that Marco is Martinez MKII but I don't see that, I see a driven manager with a steely eye who won't let players off the hook if they let him down. I tend to agree with Sam @ 135 when he says 'as long as we are playing better football and laying the foundation for a better future. To my eyes both those things are happening.'

A boring uneventul 1-0 victory at the Emirates would be most welcome but we have three games at Goodison to navigate before we travel there.

Great comment. Silva has given the old guard game time, and realised what we already knew. That's the reason he has two centre-back and left-back replacements ready to step in.

However, I think our centre-mid is our big problem. Tom Davies has gone backwards. He lacks creative abilities to drive forward, looses the ball often, his passing and shooting is not up to much. Also, he stands about 6 feet away from Gueye.

I know pundits will say "He's only young, give him a chance!" However, that's why the successful teams buy the finished article.

But this season has been a massive improvement on the last couple of seasons and I trust Silva will get it right

What shouldn't happen again is Charlie allowing himself to get so foolishly involved in something that is easy to walk away from, not walk into. He will have to be given a walkover with that, with the proviso that it doesn't happen again, ever, a large club fine may help him in that direction.

We are looking better going forward but still very poor and too open defending, let's see what we are like in a few weeks when the team will look a lot different than those chosen today.

I agree with those who thought the manager should have done better with the substitutions and could have been quicker making them so maybe Silva learned something today as well.

Seamus has been way off the pace all season and both he, and Baines, were poor, today.

The amount of crosses that get into our box is worrying!

The Echo saying Sigurdsson was our best player (??) and Gueye was poor. I didn't see it like that at all. Gueye was one of our better players. I thought Coleman was dreadful, Baines poor. Richarlison did nothing up until his red. Pickford MotM for me.

Keen to see some of our fringe players get a runout midweek and make a claim for a start next weekend. I suspect Digne, Bernard and Zouma will all start next weekend.

People can say we've had easy games but Bournemouth are 3rd, unbeaten and had a 100 percent record before today. Wolves held the Champions to a draw at home today too.

We're averaging 2 goals per game. Haven't been behind once so far this season. Have played 70 of 270 minutes a man down. Have a host of new signings to come in and make their mark in the team, including practically an entire back four.

So, assuming the defensive problems aren't entirely down to zonal marking/man marking and have anything to do with individuals themselves they can either improve or be replaced.

Our next 3 games are at home. Win all 3 and we'll have 11 points from 15 and be in the next round of the League Cup. Hardly the end of the world.

Silva will get it right but we have to give him some time. The old guard as far as I am concerned are playing much better under his leadership. I know Baines was at fault for the penalty today but otherwise I thought he has done a pretty good job the last 3 games and so I think the criticism is a little over the top.

Also, while Davies was not Man of the Match, I thought he did okay and the folks on here who believe Schneiderlin would have protected the lead better with his 6-feet sideways passing and lack of tackling are totally delusional.

I know Keane has been the whipping boy for some time now, and rightly so, but I thought he has also played pretty well under Silva. The person I was dissapointed with today was Seamus. But we all know he will come good. I am sure Bernard will deputize for Richarlison over the next 3 games.

Always look on the bright side of life!!!

But... there were lots of positive in the middle part of Martinez's reign. We would play ok and then be unlucky to drop points from winning positions. It's alright to have some bad luck but it became a theme under Roberto. It became very clear it was tactical rather than 'luck'.

And so here we are. Three games we were in winning positions in. Playing decent enough. Yet Wolves got back, Bournemouth came back, and Southampton were a lucky bounce from fluking a draw in a game they were never in.

For all the positive change, and the promise of further change, we're still playing to a familiar script. That needs to change.

Under Martinez. the team collectively were poor. Individual errors have cost us so far... a harsh red for Jags and a challenge that didn't have to be made by Baines.

We still generally pass the ball very poorly and our control is shocking. Why does the big ball over the top cause us so much trouble? Tosun, l don't think he's up to much and DCL is a waste of a shirt, l was spitting blood when he ran that ball out of play on the flank...piss poor. Davies should have went off not Walcott too. The new arrivals can't come in quick enough and l think Marco Silva will have learnt a lot about certain players today. This match today for me was going to be a bench mark of our season, l think we will be better than last time but there will be plenty more frustrating weekends.

Keane and Sigurdsson have been much improved as has Schneiderlin. Walcott also looks more of a threat.

My biggest concern after today was with Coleman. His head was elsewhere today. Twice he let simple passes run past him. There was a distinct lack of concentration and urgency about him.

Davies should not be a starter. He looks like a schoolboy amongst men. I don't care if he's a local lad. Right now, he is not good enough. I hear all the time how good he was when he was 16-17, well it would appear that he hasn't improved. He simply is not at the standard we need. I'm not writing him off and saying that he won't one day be a good player, but right now he shouldn't be in a team with top 6 aspirations. He makes poor decisions, plays poor passes and doesn't have any stand-out qualities apart from a good attitude. He needs to be learning away from our first team.

On another note, the zonal marking didn't work today for Bournemouth's second goal because Sigurdsson inexplicably pushed out as the corner came over and the Bournemouth player headed it. The ball then hit the post and landed where Sigurdsson was supposed to be standing. I can only assume that he thought one of our players was going to win the header, and that he was keen to get involved in a counter attack.We also should have had two penalties. One on Coleman and one on Tosun.

When it all comes together we are going to be a match for anyone.

It was good to see them point out the pull on Tosun which should have given us the chance to go 3-2 up. Looking again at the Smith sending off it seems like a case of the ref levelling things up? It wasn't that a clear cut denial of a goal scoring opportunity though a definite foul. I'm disappointed they missed the chance at the end for Sigurdsson which I can't help but think he should have buried. I'm sure he will.

On another tack can we afford to let Lookman go now with our hot headed Brazilian is suspended for three games now and Bolasie now gone? I'm delighted the squad has been trimmed but in terms of wingers are we now potentially a bit thin?

Good point about the challenge on Coleman in the first half, he was taken out inside the box by the touch line after he crossed, looks like that one has been air brushed out of all reports

If its still happening at Christmas serious questions need to be asked and more to the point - answered.

Leaving to one side Keane's worrying injury, I expect to see Digne and Zouma start against Huddersfield. They might not be better, but they've not much room to be worse.

I don't think it would have helped Richarlison today though...

In the penalty instance: Keane was in front of the attacker but did not get the ball. Baines, to get the ball , had get in front of the attacker, who already had the initiative as a result of Keane not clearing the ball.

The penalty was caused by Keane's error, which put Baines in an impossible situation. . . The attacking player is never going to pass the ball to a defender, other than in error, so a defender has to have awareness and anticipation in his game. Keane had neither. They have to attack and get the ball.

The other factor was why was the crosser of the ball allowed time and space unchallenged to be so accurate in his cross? Similar to the Wolves goal resulting from a unchallenged cross from the same wing.

I am optimistic as Silva seems to have the same philosophy as Moyes when it comes to team selection – don't drop a player who just had a decent game. Martinez damaged his relationship with the team when he benched Robles as soon as Howard returned from injury.

Koeman was so arrogant that the players knew that their performances had little effect on their prospects as he had made his mind up about them and was unlikely to change it. Unsy had no idea what his best team was and made too many changes. Sam was just a cynical arrogant bastard.

Now we have a manager who seems to understand team dynamics and chemistry.
COYB.

Big error for me was leaving Baines on. Didn't see our bench but if Digne was there he should have come on when we went 2 up. They would clearly go direct and Baines cannot defend anymore. He'd look reborn the previous 2 games but with no Richarlison in front of him he reverted back to looking like a vulnerable player. Digne should be given his chance next game.

Our attack gelled in the 2nd half. Motm 2 games running for Sigurdsson, though some are determined he isn't good enough still, for reasons that escape me. Walcott is a threat and Tosun, whilst not yet scoring is showing intelligent forward play. Gana is improved, as is Davies. Our short passing is fired into feet now, tempo is far better. Players are adjusting. Coleman is I think struggling with this aspect, hence his poor start. Holgate is showing he is a talented CB. We have 4 new signings that will be getting integrated into the team over the next month. By October I'm expecting a smooth outfit.

Or we can moan that we aren't were we think we should be after 3 games, that Silva is the new Robbie, that Davies is a Championship player blah blah blah.

On the one hand, we look a much better side in my opinion. We've created more opportunities in three games than we did the entirety under Allardyce. Feels that way anyhow. The games are actually enjoyable to watch again. We honestly should be on nine points in my opinion.

On the other hand, we're not on nine points. The Wolves game was "acceptable" in many respects to come away with a point. Today, however, feels like a loss to me. We should never lose a game where we are up two goals. And if we have ambition, and I believe the new regime does, we simply have to win games such as today against inferior teams who are below us.

And the penalty. Ah, the penalty! I've calmed down quite a bit since that moment. I think I was more angry than Michael Kenrick to be honest.

Forgetting that it was a braindead thing to do - and NO you can't take that out of the equation admittedly - the ref completely made the wrong decision.

That is not a red card. Never. The action of placing your forehead on another player's forehead is not, in and of itself, a red card. It is not violent conduct with reckless action or intent to injure. That's the barometer for a red in the Laws.

Both players freely placed their heads together. There was no intent to injure by either player, and it was not violent conduct. The ref should have shown a caution to each player (hence the existence of a yellow card in and of itself, to stop that kind of petulant, immature action) and had a chat.

Violent conduct is violent conduct - and violent conduct is a red card.

Richarlson's feather-like touch, "manning up" to a competitor, was not violent conduct.

If football sends players off for this type on innocuous action, it runs the risk of MORE simulation, and a bleached game devoid of passion, robust challenges, and physicality.

It was never a red. It did not meet the criteria of a red card offense.

Now the people who say that have never, ever really watched a game. But they have a point.

I am not trying to play the "small penis compensation" argument. What I am saying is this game of soccer is a contact, physical sport. Men should not ever be sent of for having a "stand off" type of situation. And they certainly shouldn't be sent off for a head rub when they both came together that didn't even need a band-aid!

These are the most highly skilled, and most importantly, highly competitive athletes in the world. They are going to have those moments. If they don't try to hurt one another, show a yellow and don't ruin the game!

If Richarlson has actually headbutted the Bournemouth fella, he should be out, straight red, with an even stiffer penalty.

That didn't happen.

Never, ever, ever "violent conduct."

If that's violent conduct, why don't we just dress the guys up as Barbie dolls and prance around the field?

If you think that's violent conduct then all I can say is I have a very, very different definition of violent conduct!

Can I use the term "violent conduct" any more to hammer home why that head rub was not a red?

Violent conduct that? Please! You have to be kidding me!

A strong tackle. Putting your head in where it hurts. Blocking a shot. They are the actions of a passionate, 'hard' man. Rubbing your head against someone knowing full well neither of you are going do anything about it isn't hard. It's stupid, selfish and weak.

I agree it's not enough for violent conduct. So I disagree with the ref who went looking for unnecessary decisions all day. But that doesn't get Richarlison off the hook. There should be a card category for being a petulant nob.

I can't argue with any of that. I agree full-heartedly.

And I can imagine the comments in Australia. They beat the shit out of one another without pads!

I actually think that crosses a line from "hard man" to "full on fucking crazy" but that's a convo for another time.

Never a red in my opinion. Pissed me off to no end, and clearly still does a bit.

The game is getting sterilized, and what's worse is there's a massive element of conning the ref which compounds the issue. It gives "that guy" in Aussie or the USA more ammunition to rip the shit out of the game.

And that seriously gets on my nerves.

Let 'em play FFS.

He went in to head that ball with zero reservations. Zero. Bravery personified. That's the type of action that makes a "hard" player in my opinion.

I'd've backed out of that without a second's thought. He knew he might be in for a collision, but he went in full bore, for his team, anyway.

I sincerely hope the kid is okay.

Smith's reaction to the alleged head butt was also a delayed reaction one. Watch it in slow motion. Charli touches him, he takes a step back, then suddenly grabs his head and goes into an Oscar winning performance. Cheating of the highest order and the FA should be looking at these incidents, and taking retrospective action against the perpetrators.

Arteta always got on my nerves when losing possession would feign a foul. Initially, he got away with it and was awarded the foul; referees eventually got wise to him and waved play on. I would get off my seat and tell him to get up and get on with the game.

He wasn't the only one but stood out for me because he was one of our players, a cheat no less. Now, each team has three or four acting "the twat" and it stinks but will carry on and most probably get worse.

Rant over, for now, going to church and lighting a candle for Michael Keane. It looked a very serious injury, hopefully it isn't.

I am about to scour Adam Smith's twitter account for the last 7 years, there is bound to be a Brazilian reference in there.

We can turn this into a racist hate attack have the decision overturned and have Adam Smith arrested.

Some players show more courage than others, putting their head in front of a forwards boot for instance. Surely that's shows a degree of courage lacking in some players.

Open for debate?

You have just proved my point perfectly.

These type of discussions always fall into categories, he shouldn't have done it, it's the letter of the law, but as with most incidents, I just feel that football or more to the point referees, have just go no concept anymore.

The game of football is getting stripped bare, no tackling is around the corner, and although we all love skill, it shouldn't produce a foul, every time a clever little footballer over-runs the ball.

Maybe it's nothing new, Duncan Ferguson went to jail for a head-but that would have got him filled-in on the streets (is that all you've got mate) and if Smith would have reacted like this on the street, he would have got destroyed.

What's the street got to do with it, I know? But you can't cheat like this in real life, and the more emotion you take out of the game, the more you are going to damage it long term .Surely?

My point exactly.
To liken a centre half who challenged a header to the true heros, such as those who give their lives in service, is a step to far.
He's not a hero, he's a footballer challenging a header.

I thought that both he and Coleman looked puffed-out yesterday. I watched a good live stream and the two of them were gasping. Bournemouth do play at a high tempo and a few of our lads struggled to cope with it.

The were mistakes, there always will be, but on reflection, the biggest mistakes were by the referee. he could have sent both players off or done nothing, leaving it to retrospective action.

The penalty was ridiculous, the striker feeling Baines'a hand on his back and collapsing. (If our Niasse got a ban for simulation, then this is even more of a cheat.)

I would never have taken off Walcott, who was on fire and gave us an out option, and if a change was deemed necessary, then surely Niasse was the man to occupy the likes of Ake rather than Calvert-Lewin.

Can't disagree with any of that. BUT we all knew as soon as we saw it that the high probability was a red, regardless of all of the above. So Richarlison should have known that and not reacted. I might be pissed off with the ref. But I'm also pissed off with our man. It's not either /or. Now without him for 3 games.

In fact there was missed shirt pulling on Charli and then when he complains to the Ref … Smith then comes over and starts saying things and then he puts his head in Richi's face and then angles it forward - definitely Charli not the initiator or the only perpetrator ….

Retrospective action should follow - but no doubt wont

Goals cause delight or misery, it's football.

Last season he was the most fouled in the Premier League

The stick he got against Southampton … every time he gets the ball the defender cheats by barging into him, little pushes and shirt pulls. Then when he gets half a turn he get slashed down – and you point the finger at him for cheating .. my god you've got some neck .

We were in the opposite corner from where the incident occurred, so obviously couldn't tell what happened. I was sent a video of the incident at half time however, and no way is that a red card. If anything, going by that video, Smith seems to be the one to make the "first move", followed by a pathetic reaction to the referee of "please sir, he hit me".

In the second half, Smith was on our side, and boy did he get dogs abuse, and I was kind of disappointed he was the one sent off. Football fans don't forget incidents, so let's hope when Bournemouth come to Goodison he gets the abuse he deserves.

Richarlison however, needs to just walk away from incidents like yesterday, let his football do his talking, and hopefully we will see a few opponents sent off for reckless challenges on him.

As for Coleman maybe he will never be the same player again after his injury; it's happened to many players in the past.

Draws against Wolves and Bournemouth are decent results in my book, there's no easy away games.

As I said before I'm more optimistic about this season than I have been for some years now and I think we will be right up there this season.

With respect, you're usually one of the fairest and more balanced posters on TW.

So it's a tad surprising to see you apply a completely false (and extreme) analogy to JGD's comment about Keane ' the hero'.

I think it unfair to John and an example of seriously distorting and exaggerating a simple opinion on a single incident in a game of footy.

Still awaiting some good news how Keane is this morning. A shame for the lad that his bravery has possibly cost him game time as he has played so well this season.

And don't forget, everyone, our two goals came from terrible mistakes by their goalie.

Let's start and finish with the old cliche about class and form. Yes, he had a 'mare but for every 'mare he's had, I'll give you 50 9/10 performances. He's still the bargain of the century and I'll remind posters of this when he puts the performances in we get a bit blase about.

As I said, purely for debate. Personally I don't regard footballers as “heroes”; I do, however, think that some show a degree of “courage” by attempting headers or tackles when they know that they are likely to get hurt.

Jay, fair comment, an extreme analogy but a similar principle. “Doing their job”.

For the record, I now regard many footballers as overpaid, cheating, unprincipled arses who bring shame on their “profession”. Would you want them in the trenches with you? I'd sooner have my cat.

Digne was bought to provide cover and competition for Baines so maybe it's time to see what he can do. Keane will not start the next game if he has been concussed. Mina is injured and Jags is suspended so Zouma and Holgate will be the centre-back pairing.

Coleman should be made captain. Hopefully Schneiderlin will be fit for the next game so will be back at defensive midfielder and since Richarlison is now suspended Bernard will no doubt feature or maybe Lookman if he's still at the club:

Pickford
Coleman, Holgate, Zouma, Digne
Schneiderlin, Gana
Walcott, Sigurdsson, Bernard or Lookman
Tosun

This line up should be more than enough to defeat Huddersfield. Then we have the international break.

After that, we should have Keane and Mina fit again and Jags suspension will be completed and hopefully Gomes will be available as well. All our summer signings will be available with the exception of the Richarlison suspension so we can take it from there.

If an Everton striker scores with a 30-yard scorcher, "No goalie in the world would have saved that."

Ten minutes later, the opposing striker scores a similar goal and the inquest begins: "He should have been closed down, the keeper was too far off his line" etc.

I have learned over the years to make allowances for human frailty, it softens the blow. somewhat.

Baines had a great game up to giving a very soft pen away and then his head dropped. Wilson should be ashamed of himself for the way he went down and I hope Eddie Howe is proud of the players who conspired to get Richarlison sent off.

Bournemouth are on a good run of form right now and it was always going to be a difficult game but, rather than looking for scapegoats for a 2-2 draw, we should be looking at heroes for playing so well and almost coming away with 3 points.

Yes, its a big concern defensively, but Silva has already recognised that in bringing in 3 new defenders.

With an injury of that type, especially for a central defender, I would imagine a fairly long spell on the sidelines.

Which, if that is the case, it's a good job Silva recruited in that department before the window shut. The International break is approaching too so there's another fortnight for his recovery period.

Best wishes to Michael for a speedy and complete recovery.

We could have had 4 with 10 men. So let's be positive, gents...

Lots of comments on here in the last couple of weeks about Richarlison going down easily and buying fouls. Dave rightly points out that Arteta was guilty of the same type of thing; Pienaar & Mirallas too, if we're being honest. So, if we're talking necks... wind yours in and take off the blue-tinted glasses.

I hope he's back soon. And I hope that doesn't put him off similar challenges in future.

I just didn't care for the way that, in 2 posts, in response to his harmless post, you implied John would be the type who "stands at the Cenotaph on 11th November and [tell attendees] they're not heroes but just doing their job."

A tad unfair, as I said.

For what it's worth, I also think it's a tad extreme to label Keane 'a hero' for incurring the injury he did. I rather think it was simple collateral damage (to borrow a military phrase, if you like).

Keane simply went for the ball as he normally would, unaware of Gana's presence, and there was an unfortunate clash of heads.

Keane himself has now confirmed it is a hairline fracture of the skull which will 'heal itself'. I really hope this doesn't derail his career, or (heaven forbid) career ending as it was for Hull's Ryan Mason.

With a change in the suspension rules, domestic suspensions are no longer competition specific. That is, suspensions picked up whilst playing in the Premier League are NOT only served and reserved for Premier League games. They are served out across FA Cup and League Cup games also.

Therefore, Jagielka will be available for selection for the Premier League game against Huddersfield as the midweek League Cup game with Rotherham constitutes the 3rd and final game of his 3-game suspension.

Whether Silva selects him in place of the injured Keane is another matter.

Currently on Suspension

Person	Club	Start	End	Total

Bissaka	Crystal Palace	20.08.2018	26.08.2018	1
Jagielka	Everton	11.08.2018	29.08.2018	3
Vardy	Leicester City	18.08.2018	01.09.2018	3
Hayden	Newcastle Utd	18.08.2018	01.09.2018	3

Can someone teach Smith what a Kirkby Kiss is actually like. He may then have something to complain about, when he eventually comes round. The kind of kid who ran to teacher every time his pen was borrowed or he wasn't allowed to play centre-forward. Pitiful!

WTF is one of them? 😂😂😂

Also, that reaction from Smith after Richie had feigned the Kirkby Kiss was not as bad as some I have seen and I still remember screeming at Kevin Ratcliffe to get up and fight after Vinnie Jones had laid a soft one on him many years ago.

I just hope Richarlison doesn't prove to be a Neymar type player and go rolling around or diving at the slightest touch.

Jay, I think you will find, if you read my post again (220) you will see that I don't accuse John of being the sort who would stand at Cenotaph at all. I was inferring that, if he did, his comments would not be welcomed. My posts were as I said, just for debate.

Some footballers do little more than go through the motions; others go that bit further and end up with a mouth full of boot.

It was and is unfair on John, escalating a very simple football opinion he offered into a fiction you created. That's all I'm saying.

As for your opinion on modern day footballers and in response to your rhetorical question: 'Would you want them in the trenches with you?'

Given your comments to John, I am assuming by that you mean fighting alongside you in war trenches.

TBH, I wouldn't want myself, my son, or anyone for that matter fighting in any trenches, in any conflict or war.

Now that really is a topic open for a completely different debate, but probably not here on TW.

Pudong side of Shanghai.

A horrible, fractious game where City kicked everything except the ball. We were 2-1 up and with 5 minutes left Paul Power equalised. The last minutes got really nasty, culminating with Rats doing Hutchinson by the corner flag. If my memory's right, he walked straight off, after doing what all of us wanted to do.

Now, that was violent conduct!

No offence taken lads.
Lets drop it out.

City 2-2

Francis Sent Off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2IDYXP3uAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwQW5EMsmQ

This what really grinds, the inconsistency of poor refereeing in matches. It can be the difference between 3 points or none, and a player undeservedly gets a three match ban.

You say, "And I hope that doesn't put him off similar challenges in future."

Honestly, I'm not sure how you stick your head in ever again after that type of injury. I was scared the kid had done some serious, serious damage to his brain. Not that a concussion and hairline fracture aren't enough! But I thought it could even be worse. Keane was out like a light before he hit the ground. It was scary. Whenever there's a collision and you're just looking for movement - any movement - it's just bad.

How, after that, you go into a header with the same conviction of purpose is honestly beyond me.

Hard man indeed if he can. Tough as nails in fact. Anyone who can return after an injury like that without some degree of trepidation has my undying respect.

Seamus is another example - leg broken like a twig and now plays the game exactly the same. Yes, he had a stinker, but I don't see any of yesterday's performance down to fear. I think he'd get stuck in all over again, not giving his broken leg a second's thought.

That's bravery.

I broke my collar bone in the exact same place twice playing hockey. After the second time, I was never the same player. I don't know how some guys do it. #respect.

That night at Maine Rd in 81 ranks as one of the great heartbreaks. Miserable Mancunian night in lashing rain and a hostile atmosphere. Their left back McDonald got two and then I think Paul Power got the third. Well beaten and a memorable cup run was in tatters. I was living in London at the time and a mate and I travelled back to the smoke in the company of some incredibly smug and obnoxious City fans.

Oh and most importantly, despite Richarlison's rush of blood, I've managed to scale the giddy heights of the ToffeeWeb fantasy league after (almost all) of GW3!!!

Just wanted to record this for posterity before it all goes wrong with a little digital grafitti – I 'woz' 'ere!

We should focus on what we (that is Everton) can control — so

1. Don't nuzzle other people's faces with your forehead;
2. Don't push people in the back in the penalty area.... etc!

Before last season the FA stated that grappling in the penalty area by centre-backs would be penalty as the laws dictate. This had increased over the years without punishment and a crackdown was long overdue. The first game of the season, Mike Dean penalised Stoke, correctly, and this made headline news. No other ref had the bottle to do it and now it's As bad as ever.

Consistency is what fans want and we' re not getting it. How many forwards have been suspended like Niasse? None, yet we see more blatant diving every week. Fans have a right to complain and will do until we see consistency and honesty in the game.

Hazard gets fouled every 5 mins in every game, he rolls over holding his leg and makes sure that the referee has mentally logged it. Then gets up and turns on the style again.

Some of us may remember a certain Clive Thomas in a cup-tie against RS.

They say that things even themselves out during a season but that is just a myth and the rhythm, momentum and/or confidence may have already been affected.

''Charlie Riches son'' needs to get a grip and realize he will get the rough treatment as long as he is a threat and in the Premier League there is a hatchet man in every team. (Everton's has just gone back to Boro -only joking!)

Jamie #275, "How, after that, you go into a header with the same conviction of purpose is honestly beyond me."

The usual answer is that you don't, not right away. You're a little hesitant to start with, and then you get over it. Heading was a huge part of my game until about a third of my neck was removed. When I came back after the layoff, I couldn't head the ball without pain, and it was probably a year after the surgery before I would go full-bore in for a competitive header.

But the knack came back. Just yesterday I put my head in front of a goal-bound shot. I'm sure Keane will feel some trepidation, but he'll get past it.

I love the guy but he and Silva have to nip this in the bud right now.

Also Robert our players didn't react at all. Two or three Bournmouth players were moving in as they sensed a rebound. Davies just let Ake go and started waving his arm as if appealing for offside. This is both stupid and lazy. You have to be quicker mentally and physically and let the officials worry about the offside.