Sosa move in doubt over work permit

Although very little is known, or previously about this player, I trust in Brands' connections and success with S American talents.

Do other clubs experience the same issues with Work Permits, or is it just us? We have had Henry Onyekuru on our books for two years now, well before MB was even with us, yet it is looking increasingly unlikely that he will get his sorted before the start of the new season.

At his level, it's fairly arbitrary as Richarlison's situation proved. Watford signed him under very similar circumstances after impressing at the U20 World Cup – similar size South American club, similar transfer fee, zero senior caps, although he had played almost 50 times for Fluminese while Sosa has only just broken into River Plate's side and Watford could argue he was going straight into their first team – and the Exceptions Panel saw enough in his performances to green-light the transfer.

Either way, Sosa is one for the future, not necessarily for next season and while we're all hankering for the first signing of the summer, I'm very happy that Brands is looking at the best young global talent while also shopping for our immediate needs.

Great. Keep this up and many years from now we'll have a team of once young and promising stars. Playing in Turkey, probably.

Denying Everton the opportunity to buy very good young players at reasonable prices only helps the bigger and far richer clubs who can buy the very best from abroad who have no problem playing for their senior national teams on a regular basis, automatically get work permits from the Home Office, so, are encouraging discrimination based on wealth.

Thanks Lyndon, allegedly Brands has been looking also at Adolfo Gaich, another Argentinian who has shown a lot of promise up front in a striking type role for San Lorenzo.

So I suspect if that one too is to become a serious consideration, there will be similar problems regarding the aforementioned Work Permit Issues.

All above are very good points raised.

MB must undertake a risk assessment and undertake due diligence on every transfer in and out of the club.

Hebert Os, sketch is bizarre and highlights what can happen without proper planning and with Sosa, who appears to be a fine young talent, this is possibly the way will always be when tapping in to the South American market, for such young players.

I've faith in MB, I'm sure he will see EFC right, this transfer window.

Can someone please explain why the man Utd signing of Daniel James from Swansea cannot be completed until next week when the FIFA international transfer window opens?

Are the likes of Wales, Scotland and northern Ireland classed as "foreign" in the eyes of FIFA?

Rob, a very good point, I thought they were classed as EU, as part of the UK.

It would be good to know the FIFA rational, on UK transfer windows.

Rob, I think that's basically it, because he is technically a Welsh player he is regarded as a 'foreign' player. I am not sure what will happen if and when Brexit comes in, if the Rules will change for us regarding signing actual (SA, African and European) Foreign players.

I think it can't be approved until the FIFA International Transfer Window Opens because until the “Transfer Window” or “Fifa International Transfer Window” No transfers can be completed when the Window is closed. Regardless of where the clubs are

Thanks Paul, for explaining the FIFA rule on transfer windows.

Well that seems fair (as if) our Window has been open for 3 weeks and will shut well before the rest of Europe's Windows do?

Once again another work permit issue same as Onyekuru. Just buy players who can bloody play straight away ffs

I agree, Bobby; this is a recurring nonsense.

We need to get players before the big six, therefore we need to identify them early. We don't know how good this lad can be. It's not ideal if he has to do a “Henry” and go out on loan, but if he can play, then it makes great sense. I want to see 2/3 of these types of signings every year in the hope we can unearth a real superstar.

Hello, I've never posted before and I'm old enough (thank God) to have witnessed two magnificent title triumphs in the 1980s.

Just wanted to say re work permits: in the UK it's very difficult for sport in general because each governing body for each sport sets a minimum requirement whereby they will 'endorse' a work permit application for a migrant overseas sportsperson. I know this because I have been involved in work permits for cricketers and rugby players entering the UK. For example, in cricket to even play at club level (not even county) in the UK you have to have played 5 first class matches in the previous 24 months to qualify for a Tier 5 sports visa.

The visa system is the same for anyone wanting to enter the UK, it is simply (!!) down to the governing body for that sport to set their endorsement level. So basically: club wants player, if player meets that sport's criteria they issue a visa endorsement reference, player then takes this and applies for visa.

Now I don't know what the FA has as its endorsement criteria (now tempted to check!), but if we wanted to sign anyone from anywhere in the world they would have to meet it (eg, international appearances etc) otherwise they've got no chance of getting in the the country. This probably explains why it is easier for players from, say, South America etc, to play in other European countries over the UK. It will be down to what that country's governing body says is their minimum requirement to enter the country as a professional sportsman or woman in that sport.

Keep up the good work everyone. Genuinely believe as a club we are again on the cusp of greatness...

Hi Nick. Talking of work permits, I've just seen that Henry Onyekuru came on as a sub for Nigeria tonight, albeit it was only a friendly. This was their final warm-up game before the ACON starts, so I'm assuming he is in the Nigerian squad for the tournament.

Does anyone know how many games are needed to be played in a certain period of time in order to qualify for a work permit, and also do friendly games count towards that total?

Just had a read of this, very interesting it would appear the bigger clubs get their deals through by paying over the odds! The more you are willing to pay the more points you get!

The FA's policy on non EU football players and possible implications following Brexit

Rob, players needing a work visa need to play in 75% of matches for their national teams in one calendar year.

It depends on the Fifa ranking of the player's country of birth. The higher the ranking, the less % of games he has to play. The reference period is a year for players under the age of 21 and two years if over 21.

Argentina are ranked 11th so he'd actually had to have played 45% of his country's international matches over a one year period for automatic qualification.

MSC, in FIFA, transfer regs; is needed, so it seems. It wasn't so complex, even five years ago, but, If we know the regs, we can set our standards and hope, for the future, of EFC.

Thanks, Brian.

That's a clear set of requirements.

Everton's transfer plan is set and is clear.
Marcel Brands, we live and hope for this preseason.

I wonder if it is some Turkish geezer, tipping these players to Everton and saying "Do not worry, we will help you out by loaning us the players until you sort a visa out."

Buy young players and loan them out to gain valuable playing experience in leagues across Europe and South America. If they progress and earn sufficient caps to earn a work permit bring them to the UK. If not, sell at a good profit. Doesn't sound like nonsense to me and it is what Chelsea have been doing for years.

Look at Onyekuru - bought for £7 million and with 14 goals in 31 games for Galatasaray now valued at £20 million plus. Begins to repay some of the £150 million largely squandered under Koeman and Walsh.

At this moment in time in our progression, we need at least 3 proven players of the Digne, Gomes type.

We already have players like Vlasic who came here, got lent out, has done well and most still want to get rid and he's proven he can do it. I don't want us to buy unproven kids like Chelsea, not yet anyway, I want players who have made it.

We can't afford players who have made it. We need to play the long game. We can't waste money like we have done.

We need to buy one or two 'project players' a year as well as two or three first team players.

Everton don't do work permits for some reason. Once we leave The Common Market, we are royally screwed as we'll have to go back to Scotland and Ireland for new recruits.

Good point, Colin. Don't want to get in a Brexit debate but some people really didn't think it through. All the thousands of jobs we will lose in the car industry alone should have been enough and what is even crazier is most of the places where these factories are voted for it. Signing their own termination of employment letter.

Anyway, what we really need is football clubs to look inwardly then and invest more in junior coaches, subsidise the FA coaching courses so they are free to level 3 and get as many coaches coaching in the right way. My lad is 8 and it amazes me how many coaches are shouting for kids to clear it or just throw it down the line even though no-one is there. At that age when there is no pressure to win is when they should be being coached to pass it, move and play with their head up.

Anyway, rant over. Sorry. Had my Weetabix!

Dan, not sure it is that we can't afford or unwilling to pay the inflated price.

Some decent knowledge on visa requirements here! I think the general point is that the criteria have to be met, so it shouldn't really be a criticism of the club if the visa doesn't get over the line — they either qualify for one, or they don't.

I suppose there is the view as to whether it's wise to try and sign a player who is clearly some way off meeting the criteria, but then it's all about balancing long-term projects with current requirements, I guess.

Where does the enough caps = work permit logic come from?

Dan @29, the coaching has been wrong in this country for ever, mate. Jobs for the boys, and very little individuality, is how I see coaching, with them all going off from the same mantra.

In the '80s, the English FA decided to open up a school for the most technically gifted young players in the country. 25 kids going to live in Lilleshall for two years, then topped up with another 15 every year to keep the ball rolling.

I was reading Carragher's book and was shocked to read that he was a pupil at this National School of Excellence because he was, imo, a text-book footballer (not a criticism) just the same as John Ebbrell, who also attended (gonna be a long post this).

Reading Carragher's book, I was astounded when he writes about Joe Cole doing a “Cruyff turn” in the middle of the park, and this no-nonsense coach from Yorkshire stopping the session and said “We'll have none of that here, son!”

Unbelievable, really unbelievable, astounding and so very fucking sad, because they had supposedly picked the finest technical talent in the country, to teach them how to become better technical players, but it's obvious they never worked on their technical skills? (Methodical maybe?)

Maybe they thought “It's because you have to be strong to play in England”, but it's a story that's always filled me with despair, especially when I used to watch talents like Fabregas do about five “Cruyff turns” every time he played in an Arsenal shirt.

Same now, I watch the occasional academy game, and it's all about playing out from the back, play it out from the back, play it out from the fucking back? Nothing wrong with this if it's on, but these kids are getting told to do it even when it's not on, and that's something I will never be able to understand. Don't wait for the traffic lights to go on red, kid, just don't think and cross that fucking road now!

Second rate countries can all play tight football in the midfield but it's something English coaches have never got their heads around, imo, because “You can't fucking play in there, son! Honestly Dan, and I haven't even had my Weetabix yet!

We (England) had a player who could play that role in midfield, Tony. His name was Jack Wilshere. Sadly, he had glass ankles and never made it.

ps: I haven't had Weetabix for years. Same goes for Shredded Wheat now I think about it. Corn flakes, Crunchy Nut and Rice Crispies are my preferred cereal these days.

Glastradamus, you have returned. Please tell us what transfer premonitions has your crystal ball provided you this silly season?

My view is no loan deals and no signing players who won't get a work permit.

Onyekuru and Zouma have highlighted the folly of buying players under these circumstances.

Colin, Wilshere was never a good player. He had fantastic technique which reminded many of the world class Barcelona midfielders, unfortunately this blinded many to the fact that he had a poor attitude, weak character and made poor decisions on the ball. Much of his injury problems were down to this, he would often run deliberately into trouble to try to show how good he was, rather than doing the right thing. He was never capable of playing any role, he just looked like he had the potential to.

Mike 36,

I couldn't disagree with you more. Wilshere was a good player. Maybe not a great professional and obviously unfortunate with injuries, but how you can say he wasn't good is beyond me.

Start eating your Weetabix, Colin, it's not about one player, it's about coaching, and how we do it all wrong!

Dan #29, just believe, BELIEVE!
If we all believe everything will be fine. We got through the war, didn't we?

Simon, because there are four key elements to a good player and Wilshere was weak in three of them. His technique is not in question but he was woeful physically, and both in mental elements (tactical intelligence and ‘character').

The way we have approached the coaching of players has always been baffling. Technique has always been secondary to physique and battling for the ball, hopefully changing now.

I can't remember the guy's name, but in the '80s the FA employed a head coach. His philosophy was POMO or position of maximum opportunity.
The analysis was showing 60% of goals were scored with less than 3 passes; basically long-ball humped forward and get on the end of the knock-down. Typical Wimbledon and a few others.

I still remember watching a couple of interviews and the guy did not rate good technique very highly. This was the official FA approach for years, so Joe Cole getting berated for a Cruyff turn is not surprising.

Charles Hughes, was his name, and people like Allardyce have made a fortune on this man's visionary ideas!

I agree that two passes can open the game up, and a little side-step in midfield can really open the game up, but so much individuality is taken away by over-coaching, especially when kids should be just enjoying the game.

I've seen loads of top-class English players but I can count on one hand, how many of them who looked like they really enjoyed the ball?

That was Charles Hughes, James. In his element in the '80s when English clubs were banned from Europe and all you heard about players was that they 'had a good engine'. It's only now that we're recovering from that era, in my view.

Mike, Wilshere is just another highly talented English player who, due to injuries, attitude or bad man-management has fallen by the wayside.

He joins a long list of what-could-have-been great players, eg: Bowles, Curry, Hudson, Worthington, Ashton, Mckenzie etc.

This news comes as no real shock to me as I said last week that it's got shades of the failed Ever Banega move from summer 2009 all over it, young promising Argentine midfielder apparently signed all but for the work permit, which never was granted.

We need to research more about the rules before getting down the line regarding potential transfers.

I would also point out that after Brexit the Premier League will be the only major league no longer in the EU.

The Italian, Spanish, German, French etc. will all be in the EU and will still be able to transfer players amongst themselves and the rest of the EU without work permit problems and get work permits for non-EU players from around the world a lot easier than we will.

We on the other hand, along with Scotland BTW (assuming they don't have another independence referendum and bugger off rather than get dragged down with England) will be subject to the work permit rules. This will give the EU clubs a massive advantage over English clubs in the European transfer market and no disadvantage in the non-EU transfer market. No fannying around with work permits for them.

The Premier League is the richest because of the TV deals. The TV deals enable PL clubs to pay the highest transfer fees and wages to get the best players. If we can't get those players anymore and they start drifting to the other EU leagues, then the TV deals will shrink because the top players will no longer play here.

Not to worry though. This country appears to be regressing anyway. Maybe they'll bring back England v Rest of the World games, baggy shorts and case balls. Put snow on it!!!

Jim (46) I think we passed on Banaga due to the fact he was found 'pleasuring himself' on the internet.

My brother in law is a staunch Valencian, and said that it was a good day when they managed to keep Banega away from any one of the three vices of footballers; Booze, women and gambling.

Could never get him to kick any of his habits for long though.

Of course his dad says he's due an EU passport soon.. He's not about to ruin his sons dreams is he.

However let's not through £millions at false promises and benefit other teams unless it's guaranteed he can play for Everton.

Jim, we got a work permit for Ever Banega; unfortunately, we never agreed terms with the player.

Shane (32), it comes from the FA/Home Office and I guess the principle is that they want to ensure only the best overseas footballing talent gets to play in our domestic leagues. It's a pretty sound argument in fairness, if you could just sign anyone then there would likely be even fewer English/UK players on show than there are now. Whether we think this is a good or a bad thing is probably a whole other debate...!

Steve @ 51, another reason could be that the club song Chorus would not have worked:

We're Forever Ever (ton) Banega...

See what I mean? :-)

Lots of fans here say they have trust in Brands etc. I ask myself why?I prefer to let the years and the signing and business in and out of the club answer that for me.

I think if we put Yerry Mina up for sale, I very much doubt if we would recoup our money on the Brands purchase. So please, Evertonians, take your time before you judge Brands. Early days. Mina may come good and so may Brands but it's far too early to judge and say you trust their judgement.

Cautious supporter...

According to BBC teletext this morning his old fella says he has distant family with European connections so they are thinking an EU passport is likely. Good job the Spanish did so much raiding in the South Americas.

Pity Francis Drake didn't bring footballers back instead of baccy.

Sensible post Pat@54, but I also think it's not just people putting their faith in Marcel Brands, but it's because the club looks to be getting ran with both a plan, and a lot more of a professional attitude, since the very dark days of Koeman, Allardyce and Walsh?