Kean’s father weighs in amid speculation over return to Italy

Sunday, 17 November, 2019 132comments  |  Jump to last

Updated

The father of Moise Kean has branded the 19-year-old's move to Everton a mistake and suggested that he return to Serie A for the sake of his career and it has not been received well by the player himself.

Biorou Jean Kean said over the weekend that, “Going to the Premier League was a mistake. I'll leave a message for my son: return to play in Italy and you will become a great player.

“Come play at AS Roma with your friend, Zaniolo. Don't think about the money, but about your career.”

The comments from Kean senior, who has long been estranged from his son, come in the wake of reports in Italy that both Roma and AC Milan have expressed interest in signing the striker on loan in the January transfer window.

Kean junior, meanwhile, issued his tacit retort on Instagram today. While not addressing it to his father by name, Moise wrote: “Do not talk about my life when yours is not an example. I don't fear the hard times, the best is to come. Thanks.”

There hasn't yet been any corroborating talk in the British media and it isn't thought that Everton would be prepared to let Kean go so early in his Blues career, even on a temporary basis.

The club have drawn a line under the recent disciplinary action against the Italian international where he was dropped for the trip to Southampton following a breach of club timekeeping rules, a transgression for which Kean has apologised.

Kean was signed to much fanfare from Serie A champions Juventus in the summer for £25m and was expected by many to make an early impact in the Premier League.

Unfortunately, while Marco Silva's team made a hugely disappointing start to the new season, the 19-year-old has made just two league starts and only 11 appearances in all without registering a goal.

His last start was against Watford in the Carabao Cup three weeks ago when he was withdrawn by Silva at half-time.

And the Italy Under-21 international has since responded to his father's claim in a defiant post [in Italian] on social media that translates:

"Do not talk about my life when yours is not an example. I don't fear the hard times, the best is from there. Thanks," he wrote on Instagram.

 

Reader Comments (132)

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Hugh Jenkins
1 Posted 17/11/2019 at 07:53:50
Whenever we sign a rising "Star", they seem to very quickly turn into a "Black Hole". Why?
Derek Thomas
2 Posted 17/11/2019 at 07:58:56
We're going to get severely rinsed on this, aren't we? I hope this is not the Director of Football buying players, that don't fit the way the coach is (and I use the term more in hope than expectation) 'setting the team up'... you're coach, coach him so he DOES fit!!!

Though I suspect better players than Kean will struggle in our team at the moment. Sometimes though, it has to be said, players just don't fit. It could also be said that we've spunked the Lukaku money to no avail.

Bobby Mallon
3 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:16:43
If he wants to go, then let him. I want Silva to play him as a striker with a partner for a few games (but we all know that won't happen) so let's get him playing football.
John Hammond
4 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:26:48
A 19-year-old in a new country... let's give him a chance before writing him off, shall we?
Andrew Laird
5 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:28:44
Why is it always Everton that sign players with noisy parents? This fella also claims that Juventus owe him some tractors and by most accounts is not and has not been near his son for years.

Don’t think about tractors, think about your son.

Bill Gienapp
6 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:32:03
Is it just me, or has this international break already gone on waaaay too long?
Terry McLavey
7 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:38:24
Shades of Fellaini here, but you can't blame a father wanting what's best for his son. I hope he doesn't come under the spell of the Goodison "neutralising" station, as have so many other players, but things obviously aren't happy. Or is this just a case of manager stubbornness with Silva's prejudices overriding what is best for the club?

I would like to see him given a run; there must be something there for us to have spotted him. How many YouTube clips have we watched of players doing wonders until they come to us? I realise these are selective but the talent must be there...

Fran Mitchell
8 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:38:37
All inevitable considering his lack of game time. The reason he came to Everton is that he thought he'd get more game time than if he moved to a bigger club, or stayed at Juve.

But he is just 19 and adapting still, just 10 games in, hopefully come the season's end he'll be in full flight.

Bergkamp, Pires, Henry, Lukaku, De Bruyne, Salah, and countless others are all top or world class players who struggled to adapt in their first season and then exploded onto the scene becoming the league's best players.

Hopefully we don't make Chelsea's mistake of selling such players before they do so.

Brian Porter
9 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:46:23
Silva has grossly mismanaged Moise Kean. He arrived with a great reputation and was heralded as a star of the future, with goals for Juve and Italy already under his belt.

So, what does Silva do with him? Well, basically... Nothing! He could have had him on the bench from the beginning of the season and brought him on for the last 20 to 30 minutes on a regular basis to enable him to get used to the pace and style of the Premier League and help him to get used to playing with his new teammates.

But no, we've been 'treated' to an occasional 10- or 15-minute cameo appearance usually when the team has been struggling and playing catch-up from a losing position.

I'm sick of reading in the media that he has no goals in 11 appearances, as if those appearances were full games and he'd failed to find the net. When he started him against Watford, he was hooked at half-time, great for his confidence, that one, Marco.

Psychologically speaking, he could have left him on for the first 5 or 10 minutes of the second half before subbing him, and the lad would probably not have felt as bad as he must have done.

Out of Silva and Kean, I know who I'd prefer to still be with us two years from now, and he doesn't speak Portuguese!

Kean is probably a future superstar of the game, but Silva is probably the worst thing that could have happened to him at this stage of his career. If he leaves and goes on to be a massive star, it will be Silva's fault that he's not doing it for us.

So much for promising his parents that we'd look after their son. The fans were right behind him (remember the banner!) and we were all expecting great things from him, but he can't produce the goods if Silva doesn't give him the game time to do it.

Like much of Silva's management, yet more incompetence and ineptitude.

Martin Berry
10 Posted 17/11/2019 at 08:58:29
The lad's only been here 5 minutes, he needs to work hard and develop. He needs to be patient and so do we; he will come good.
Thomas Lennon
11 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:01:16
If anyone was expecting game-changing performances from a 19-year-old lad moving from the slow Italian league to the Premier League, they need to get their heads seen to. One very much for the future, next year at the earliest.
Si Pulford
12 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:10:38
Brian Porter, I get all of your points but we paid good money for this guy so should expect something when he actually gets on the pitch and so far he hasn't given anything back that screams ‘Give him more game time...'

And yes, we promised to look after him, and yes, the banner etc. You could say we did everything and more to welcome him to the club. How does he pay us back? By being late for the only thing he's got to do in this country!!

At 19, I don't expect miracles. But, on the money he's on, he should be toeing the line and trying extra hard to impress and get a chance. Look at Tom Davies and even Theo Walcott.

Conor McCourt
13 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:16:50
I totally agree with Fran and Martin, and totally disagree with Brian. You can hold our manager to account for many things but a player struggling with the intensity and physicality of the Premier League is not one of them.

We all want to see more of Moise but he has to deserve his place. I watched him vs Ireland U21 last month and he looked a totally different player in that match before he was sent off than in the Premier League, where he hasn't been afforded the same time and space.

We may have to wait until next season before we see the best of him.

Anthony A Hughes
14 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:22:44
That's the conundrum. Without a run of games to get up to speed, then it's difficult for the lad. But, in a struggling team, Silva can't afford to play too many passengers.

Maybe if we we're motoring along nicely, he could gradually introduce him.

Joe McMahon
15 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:38:52
Hugh @1, I fully agree. I'd like to see him played up top from the start. Calvert-Lewin has been given more than enough time, but he gets his own set of rules "cos he's one of us".
Stan Schofield
16 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:42:29
It was always blindingly obvious that Kean would probably struggle at Everton given how mediocre we are as a team. This applies to most players we sign, and especially to youngsters, who need to be surrounded by well-performing experienced players in a well set-up team in order to make a good contribution.

Unless Everton start performing consistently as a team, this problem of players like Kean being better off going elsewhere will not go away. It is an Everton problem. It's one thing for Brands to tell Kean's mum that he'll be looked after, but in reality that was never likely to be the case. You cannot look after young players when you have a dysfunctional team.

Darren Hind
17 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:43:25
Joe McMahon

That's utter gibberish. Calvert-Lewin has been played here there and everywhere since he got here as a teenager. He has had a far harder time of it. People like you have made sure of that!

Tony Marsh
18 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:43:56
Moise Kean's father doesn't live in the real world. We are not playing Football Manager here, it's real big boys money we are talking about. Kean doesn't look sharp enough for the Premier League – his first touch is abysmal so he won't be missed.

I don't believe more games for Kean is the answer. Certain types of player styles suit a more sedate pace than we have in England. Moise Kean is one of those players. If speed of thought and awareness is not there, then it can't be coached. You either have it or you don't.

Drew O'Neall
19 Posted 17/11/2019 at 09:51:10
What a great opportunity for the manager to motivate the lad and solidify his loyalty to Everton.

Manager's Office: "Moise, we had the lateness incident which you've apologised for and, as far as I'm concerned, is behind us. You're a good lad and I'm trying to protect you but maybe it's time for you to prove to the fans that this stuff in the press isn't you.

"This Saturday, I'm going to give you an opportunity to show everyone what you're really all about and I want you to take it, Moise.

"We all believe in you at Everton and we're going to give you every opportunity but the opportunity is yours alone to take. Now get out there and show me that I'm making the right decision.

"Good luck, son.'"

Mick Conalty
20 Posted 17/11/2019 at 10:12:24
If it wasn't for bad news coming out of Goodison Park, there would be no news at all. As has been said many times before, we have become a basket-case of a club.
Anthony Murphy
21 Posted 17/11/2019 at 10:17:43
Norwich at home. Surely the perfect opportunity to put this shit to bed.
Derek Knox
22 Posted 17/11/2019 at 10:32:29
As with most debatable topics that emanate from Everton, we as fans never get to know the whole story, or the nuts and bolts of any dispute etc.

While I agree that, on the face of things, Moise Kean has had limited game time under Silva, the same could be said of Tom Davies and Mason Holgate, they have recently had chances through injury, and seized them with both hands.

While I appreciate that Moise is in a different position and any striker is generally gauged on goals returned, I still believe, disciplinary issues aside, that he has not been given a decent run and, when in the side, has received very poor service.

So, summing up, I do hope it works out for the lad and of course Everton, but I have very little faith in this manager or his selections, substitutions, and tactics... so it looks like one has to go; let's hope it's the latter.

Tony Everan
23 Posted 17/11/2019 at 10:44:00
This is international break nonsense. Pathetic tittle-tattle.

He has been here for a matter of weeks, he's 19, he's settling in to a new club, new teammates, new country and new language. A different pace of football. Give the lad and Marco a chance. He is going nowhere, we will need him.

He will be more involved as the season progresses; he will acclimatise, get some confidence. Injuries and game congestion from December onwards will ensure he plays an important part in our season.

James Stewart
24 Posted 17/11/2019 at 10:46:42
@9 Absolutely spot on. There was an unfair expectation with Kean that he would immediately solve all our striking woes. He is 19. We should have signed an experienced striker for him to learn from and take the pressure off.

Kean has massive potential, so much so that Real Madrid have an interest; to sell him now would be the kind of gross ineptitude only Everton are capable of.

Frank Crewe
25 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:05:41
This is the problem with international breaks. There is no real football to report on so they resort to gossip to fill the back pages and internet sites. Usually orchestrated by players' agents looking for transfers or bigger wages for their clients and by extension themselves.

I doubt after such a short amount of time Kean will be going anywhere. So, unless an absolutely enormous bid comes in for him that the club would be mad to turn down, Kean will be at Everton for the foreseeable future.

Brian Williams
26 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:11:37
Silva out, O'Neall in!
Paul Tran
27 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:22:21
Stan #16, the biggest problem for any of our forwards is the slow, ponderous pace of our game. Difficult to get the best out of anyone when our game is so slow.

Brian, O'Neill has just joined Stoke, where I'm sure he'll be a success and become a target for Premier League clubs. He's taking Northern Ireland to the playoffs, possibly the finals, then full time with Stoke.

Jim Wilson
28 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:29:00
Here we are again... Ruining a great prospect. Clueless management that has no idea on how to develop players.

If he had gone to another Premier League club, he'd be banging the goals in.

No-one will want to come here soon. It's pathetic.

Jimmy Hogan
29 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:40:31
I would be inclined to give him longer, unless he starts agitating to go back to Italy.

Those of us with long memories will remember it took Dennis Bergkamp the best part of a season to settle down. I remember Arsenal fans being teased about their "goal machine". So what I am advocating is a little more time to see if he turns into a Bergkamp or a Drenthe...

Trevor Peers
30 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:41:55
The common myth on TW that Everton buy young players and then ruin their careers is a nonsense. Where's the evidence? Going through our younger acquisitions over the last decade in order of excellence and massive potential: Stones, Duelofeu, Lookman, Besic, Garbutt, Ramirez, Klaassen.

We received good money for Stones, who has had a reasonably good time at Man City. The rest have been average to useless, when they moved on. They simply weren't good enough.

Kean has a lot to prove, admittedly he hasn't had enough time, but we needed goals now, not next season. Surely when you pay £27 million, you expect a reasonable goal return? 3-5 would've been acceptable so far, but 0 is worrying for someone with 'massive potential'.

Joe McMahon
31 Posted 17/11/2019 at 11:47:34
Darren, people like me? I'm sorry I just want a striker who plays for Everton to have a striker's instinct. It's not Dominic's fault he hasn't got that in tough Premier League. It's fans acceptance that he tries, does good runs etc. Liverpool are European Champions and will win the league this season. Do you not want more yourself?

Darren, you seem to have a go with many on this site. Point your anger at Kenwright et al for 30 years of nothing!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

32 Posted 17/11/2019 at 12:14:00
TBH, I'm surprised the editors have given this story its own dedicated thread. It has already been discussed within the other Kean thread that has run all week.

I'm also surprised at the number of Blues seemingly unaware of the estranged relationship between father and son.

This link offers some background to the 'tractor' angle the opening post references.

Link

This is a man who abandoned the family at an early age, leaving the mother to raise her children single-handedly in poverty. The father only returned to the scene and attempted to be 'relevant' to his son to suck at the fatted calf.

In the link provided, Moise Kean posted a cutting put down on social media to his father:

"Tractors???! I don't know what you're talking about. If I am the man I am today it's only THANKS TO MY MOTHER and with this I've said everything! And don't ever forget who puts food on your table when your belly is full."

The implication of the son's final sentence is that, although the father turned his back on the family for years and left them bereft of financial support, the son is now paying to maintain his father.

My guess is that a journo has greased the father's hand to get these quotes. By his own admission, he has never met Moise's agent, does not have his son's ear, and therefore does not have any insight into the true situation.

Ignore him. The man is an irrelevance.

Brian Harrison
33 Posted 17/11/2019 at 12:38:53
Jay,

I think the editors made an article about this, as the last one concentrated on Kean turning up late for training – something he had also done with Italy. Whereas this is primarily about the comments from his estranged father.

I think the club could put this to bed very quickly by stating that Kean had been bought for the long term and the club will give him the time needed to get used to a new language in a new country and a new league.

They should put to bed any rumours about selling the boy. Then he and the club can get on with ensuring we get the best from the boy over the coming years.

Rob Marsh
34 Posted 17/11/2019 at 12:48:33
Brian Porter, #9,

Why would Juve sell a player "heralded as a star of the future"?

This kid is the next Drogba, yes? Juve have had time to have a long hard look at him and, with all Juve's top-flight experience and coaching wisdom, they decided to let him go. Surely so young, fit and full of talent, he and Juve would have believed he could give old man Gonzalo Higuaín (who was never quick) some competition.

There was no serious interest in him from Europe's big clubs and I have to say I feel uneasy about this transfer. If either of AC Milan or AS Roma have interest in him and come close to his original price, I'd take it and run.

As for blaming Silva, Silva has given him game time compared to all the other 19-year-olds in the Premier League and he's looked lost the more he's played.

He needs to find some fight from within. Sending him out on loan might be just as bad for him as what's happening with us now and keeping him in the reserves will probably see him sink further.

I'd guess he's on his way out.

David Pearl
35 Posted 17/11/2019 at 12:49:48
This prick is just pissed he didn't get his tractors.

Kean will go nowhere. l would like to see him play a couple of games for the Under-23s. It wouldn't do him any harm, players need to play. Early days... he needs time, not pressure.

Gio Mero
36 Posted 17/11/2019 at 12:53:03
If Moise was happy to play a part-time part in a team, he would have picked a European top team or stayed at Juve (if the contract extension offer was indeed real).

From his perspective, the situation is very simple and surely he would have had this conversation last summer with the club before signing for us. If the club now believes he's not good enough to play centre-forward in a team that can't score goals, then he goes – end of story.

I am pretty sure Brands and Silva already had a few chats on the subject and if Moise is still not starting regularly that's pretty much it. I don't think we'll lose much money if it's a consolation though we could have made quite of lot of it in one or two years had things worked out.

The place our club is at the moment, I think buying young prospects is just a financial exercise, not a long-term strategy. I'd rather buy 27- or 28-year-old proven footballers who can deliver immediately and for whom we should not be just a stepping stone.

Fran Mitchell
37 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:15:12
Gio, and which 27- or 28-year-old proven footballers should we get? That worked so well with Tosun, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Williams and others coming in for a combined fee of £200 million.

27- or 28-year-olds that are proven, especially strikers, cost £60 to £80 million upwards even if they aren't world class.

We invest in youth, because that is what we can afford.

A good manager, that is what we need more.

If we give Kean time, he will do fine, great in fact. He has looked lively and exciting at times. If he scored on his debut when he hit the post, I imagine this conversation would be much different. He has lost a bit of confidence, is the only Italian speaker at the club, is playing for a team desperately out of form, and is young.

Henry struggled badly at first in a top-quality Arsenal team. Lukaku looked way off the pace at Chelsea. Heck, Drogba almost gave up on football and retired at 23.

I wonder if we hired an Italian coach to aide his development... I wonder whether footballing greats like Ravenelli are coaching? Or we could try and get Inzaghi as manager – his Lazio play some sexy stuff.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

38 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:16:25
Brian @ 33.

The story first broke about 72 hours ago. It was discussed extensively on the other Kean thread. The estranged father is a money-grabbing leach. It's my opinion giving this non-story it's current TW top headline thread throws gasoline on the embers of a dying fire.

And why should the club be expected to make a public statement on this? If we went down that road, every single rumour mill story would need to be officially debunked which would serve no useful purpose as the crafty and the cynical would twist any such statements with "Well, they have to say that, don't they? It's a sure sign they mean to move him on!"

It's a lose-lose situation.

Wait for Marco Silva's presser before the Norwich game. I'll lay a pound to a penny he gets questioned on it and will dead bat it away with "That is an internal matter that is now closed."

Tony Hill
39 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:40:18
Jay, very pleasingly, Kean himself has now expressly distanced himself from his father's comments. He says something to the effect, addressing his father, "Do not talk about my life when yours is no example".

He also, more pleasingly, goes on to say that "I don't fear the hard times, the best comes from there". It's on some social media thing.

Perfect.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

40 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:44:01
Nice to hear that, Tony. Thanks for sharing it.
Stan Schofield
41 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:45:09
Jay @38: I think you are spot on. What Kean's father has reportedly said is irrelevant, and really amounts to gossip. It was known all along that Kean was joining a midtable Premier League club with both struggles and ambitions. It will surely be no surprise to anyone, including Kean, that there was a high chance of him struggling in a side that habitually struggles.

He was never a realistic short-term answer to our problem of not scoring goals, and anyone who expected him to be was being plain daft. He'll likely bed-in eventually if and when Everton gel effectively and consistently as a team. When that happens, we'll probably keep him for a while to cement his impact and reputation, and then sell him for a good profit to a top club, in the way that has become the norm at Everton.

Darren Hind
42 Posted 17/11/2019 at 13:55:52
Yes, Joe. People like you. People who have bashed away at Calvert-Lewin for years. You could easily have posted something in support of Kean, but no. Once again, you take the opportunity to have another go at your favourite target.

My anger has been towards Kenwright for 20 years. I don't need you to tell me where to direct it, but that doesn't mean I won't pull people who come on here taking others for fools, like you did post. I'm sick of people distorting facts and blatantly lying about players who cost nothing in order to support their nonsense.

Do you have any idea how incredibly stupid your claim that Calvert-Lewin "gets his own set of rules because he is one of us" is? You do realise that he has been left out of the side recently? You do realise that, when he does play, he is forced to play up top on his own? Do you think he chooses that using his "own set of rules"?

You do realise that, during his development, he has been moved around the team on a much wider scale than Kean? You do realise... Nah, forget it. You don't realise anything of the sort – otherwise, you would not have posted such gibberish.

I think eEveryone on this site realises Calvert-Lewin is not the striker to take us to the promised land... but it must really pain you and his other knockers to know that we have spent well over £200m on strikers and the guy who came for next to nothing is outscoring them all.

Take your own advice. Direct your anger at Kenwright. Not a young man who only ever gives 100%.

Andrew Ellams
43 Posted 17/11/2019 at 14:16:38
I can't help thinking Silva has a player here that he didn't want, and I think the same with Mina last season. If this is the case, why aren't Brands and Silva working better on who is coming into the club?
Mark Guglielmo
44 Posted 17/11/2019 at 14:28:18
Jay @32 I wish your comment was bolded and this thread locked. I'm actually disappointed it's been given the time of day on this site, since it's fabricated. Not if or what his father said, but that there's any truth to it.

The source, once again, is an Italian clickbait site that PAYS for people - in this case, a father who hasn't been in Kean's life for 15 years - to create stories where there are none, then reports them as news. Each click generates ad revenue, and so the cycle continues.

Giving this actual credence by reporting it as news is no different than the National Enquirer here in the States putting "Obama secret memoirs reveal plans to help Al-Qaeda!!" And then segments of the population run with it as gospel. Really, really disappointed.

People, please 100% disregard this story. If you want to continue to have the "is/isn't [Kean] worth X, Y, or Z" discussion, there's another thread already.

If you want to disregard me, that's fine too. But at least educate yourselves. Google "credibility" and "Calciomercato.it" - absolute garbage.

Joe McMahon
45 Posted 17/11/2019 at 14:29:02
Everybody has their own opinions, Darren, it's why sites like this exist. We are both supporters of this maddening club, and years of only existing makes us frustrated in many ways.

In my opinion, a Premier League footballer paid thousands a week should be able to adapt a little. I hate one up front too, but there ya go. End of conversation.

Kristian Boyce
46 Posted 17/11/2019 at 14:32:33
I guess the dad heard about the new lawnmowers we bought a few years ago and wanted in on the act as an upgrade to those tractors.
Rob Marsh
47 Posted 17/11/2019 at 14:34:33
Andrew Ellams #43,

This relationship between Silva and Brands is such a difficult one to judge, both are showing no outward signs of doubt about the other.

One thing I feel sure about, though, is that, back in the pre-season, if you privately asked Silva"What do you want for £30M – a proven/ready striker who'll get 12 to 20 goals per season? Or a kid wet behind the ears who might be good in two to three seasons time?" Well, Silva's choice would probably have had us 6 pts better off.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why the club is backing Silva so strongly through this period; they now know they've done him no favours with Kean.

John Keating
48 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:13:25
Never mind these young lads... We need a marquee signing where the whole world sits and says "What the fuck is he doing there???"

Let's sign Zlat until the end of the season. He would put us right back on the map plus a few goals.

Alan J Thompson
49 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:17:25
Why is everyone so surprised? This is the Everton Way. We buy promising youngsters from other clubs and then loan them out to, usually, lower division clubs or don't play them, certainly not regularly. The only difference in this case is the high transfer fee.

The exceptions seem to be Stones, Pickford, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin while we could all probably add, leaving aside more senior players, to the list of Coleman, Holgate, Besic, Garbutt, Virginia, Bowler and those raised through the Academy.

Fran Mitchell
50 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:33:09
Rob Marsh, what striker who guarantees 12-20 goals was available for £30 million that we passed our noses up at?

And in what games would such a striker have given us another 6 points? So a lack of a striker is to blame for our woefully ineffective midfield so far? Our weakness at set-pieces? Our poor positioning? Our slow and predictable build-up play?

All this is down to not signing some mythical £30 million striker who guarantees goals but for some reason we didn't sign?

Kim Vivian
51 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:33:35
Can anyone name a proven striker with 12-20 goals per season potential who could have been got for £30M. And by that I mean also who might have been available.

I can't.

Fran Mitchell
52 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:36:27
What is odd is how the much-maligned Calvert-Lewin has 5 in 12 this season, 3 in 9 in the Premier League. Not bad considering our form and how isolated our strikers have been. If he plays a full season, he's on track for 15 goals.

Yet Everyone says what we lack is a '15-goal' striker.

Go figure!

John Keating
53 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:40:54
Kim,

Zlat. On a free, give him £30M a season wages, he would get us 12-20 goals a season even at his age. We'd make half his wages back on publicity. His ego would drive us and everyone else mad but I bet he would love the challenge even for half a season.

Hw would give us a real lift and a bit of time plus (and more importantly) possibly stop us moaning so much because we'd all be gobsmacked. Actually, it was initially meant tongue-in-cheek but, the more I think about it, the better it becomes...

Come on, Zlat – asap!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

54 Posted 17/11/2019 at 15:58:19
Kim @ 51.

"Can anyone name a proven striker with 12-20 goals per season potential who could have been got for £30m. And by that I mean also who might have been available."

Take a look at Gabigol of Flamengo. Signed as a boy wonder by Inter Milan aged just 20. They haven't given him a chance. He has made just 9 appearances with them as he was loaned to Benfica, then in the last two seasons back to Brazil with a relegation-threatened Santos (his 18 goals helped lift them to comfortable mid-table) and this season to runaway league leaders Flamengo (22 league goals, 7 in the Libertadores) and counting.

You can watch him live on Wednesday in the Libertadores final, the Latin American equivalent of the Champions League.

Just turned 23 in August and Inter looking to sell when his latest loan deal ends in December, perfectly timed for the January transfer window.

The fee? 23-25 million EUROS, not pounds.

His game and his cockiness would be perfect for Everton. But alas, no whispers connecting us to him.

Somebody is going to pick up an absolute bargain at that price.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

55 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:04:49
Hi Fran @ 52. Haven't seen you post much recently. I remember you mentioning you were planning a pilgrimage back to Liverpool. Is that where you've been lately? If so, did you get to any games?

On the question of Calvert-Lewin, you're not alone in expressing puzzlement at his dropping from the team exactly at the moment he hit a rich vein of scoring.

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
56 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:05:25
Jay (32): TBH, I'm surprised the editors have given this story its own dedicated thread. It has already been discussed within the other Kean thread that has run all week.

Part of the intent behind TW is to provide a persistent historical record of Everton news, a "diary", if you will (as it used to be known before it changed to Archive) so posting it as a news story serves that function.

The other component is, of course, discussion and while the topic may have been covered on the other Kean thread, this thread is in context (again in the interests of that historical record). I wasn't able to post Kean Sr's quotes, the element that lifted this above it being a mere Rumour Mill item, until today but ordinarily they would have gone up sooner.

Darren Hind
57 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:19:46
Joe,

Yes, the site is about opinion, but you must realise that there is a difference between peddling falsehood and giving an opinion.

You were wrong with your claims. You were even wrong with your reasoning behind your falsehood.... "because he is one of us" Really???
You do know that we bought Calvert-Lewin whern he was around about the same age as we bought Kean??? No? ... Well, we did.

Fran Mitchell
58 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:27:12
Hey Jay, yes, much less frequent on these pages recently. I didn't indeed make the move back to Liverpool after 9 years in Brazil, but soon afterwards got a job in Milton Keynes which has prevented me from getting to any games unfortunately, and the intensity of the job has also lead to much less participation on this site - although I continue to read whenever I get the time.

I really do feel that if we leave Calvert-Lewin as No 9, with Kean either next to him (in a 4-3-3 rather than 4-3-2-1), or as his substitute (because that No 9 role is a tough one to go at for 90 minutes) then we have great options going forward. For me, our biggest issue is midfield, and we set it up.

On Gabigol, I haven't seen much of the Brasileirão or Libertadores this year unfortunately – time difference + work just makes it impossible – but he does appear to be doing well. I would say however that he probably needed that return to Brazil to get back to his best. He certainly wouldn't have been any less of a risk than Kean given how his time in Europe went, and he was victim of going to Europe way too soon. 18 months ripping it up in Brazil will probably set him up well to return to Europe and really take off.

Pat Kelly
59 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:31:51
We were crying out for a striker for years and we've ended up spending not insignificant money on a player who can't get a game. This signing has gone off the rails, if it was ever even on them. It wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't work out.

I hope it does eventually but it's doing nothing for the Club as it is. Something's clearly wrong and I can't see Silva sorting it out given the pressure he's under.

Fran Mitchell
60 Posted 17/11/2019 at 16:55:26
Pat, far too early to say it has gone off the rails. Tabloid nonsense in Italy is just as valid as tabloid nonsense in England. The lad is 19 and is clearly a talent, but needs time, needs to learn, and needs patience.

Different position, but look at Soyuncu at Leicester. Highly rated, looked woeful and ill-prepared for the Premier League; now, he's up there amongst the best defenders in the League.

Firmino, bang average when he first arrived at Liverpool; now, one of the most influential forwards in Europe.

Sterling, way over-rated; we laughed when Man City paid £50M for him. Bang average Walcott Mk 2 at 19/20. Now, the best player in the Premier League.

At a lesser scale, you see players like Everton Academy graduate John Lundstram, seen as lower-division journeymen becoming top performers in the Premier League.

Salah, De Bruyne and countless others considered 'ill-equipped' for the rigours of the Premier League, when in reality all that was needed was good management and good coaching, and a good dose of hard work and perseverance.

Kean has natural ability way beyond his peers, and we'd be stupid to 'get rid' just 3 months into his career because of a lack of patience.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

61 Posted 17/11/2019 at 17:13:06
Wow Fran! I didn't realize you were moving back permanently to the UK! Good luck with that.

With you on Calvert-Lewinand on Gabigol. He has clearly benefited from getting his swagger back at Santos and now Flamengo. He is hot-hot-hot right now.

They play one of your favourite teams today, Gremio, in RS. The home team will no doubt be looking for revenge after being humiliated 5-0 in the Libertadores semifinal.

Talking of which, will you be able to watch the Libertadores final on Wednesday? Flamengo haven't had the most relaxed preparation. Today marks their 3rd game in 8 days, including a cracking 4-4 draw with Vasco on Wednesday.

Time to settle down to wall-to-wall sport. Brazilian Grand Prix, followed by Gremio - Flamengo, then FIFA U-17 World Cup Final: Brazil vs Mexico.

Enjoy a UK winter.

Fran Mitchell
62 Posted 17/11/2019 at 17:38:18
Couldn't do with teaching English any longer Jay hahah. And with a few other issues, plus the general feel of Bolsabosta Brasil, felt was time to make a change. Hope to visit every year or so though, I still feel like a 'nordestino' and people here ask me where I'm from, as I sound more like a Brazilian that has lived in Liverpool than an actual scouser.

In regards to Libertadores, I hope so, one of the best games in football calendar that really should be more celebrated world wide. I have a late start on Thursday so will se did I can catch the game online Wednesday madrugada. Is it still being played in Chile? Despite all the protests there?

Pat Kelly
63 Posted 17/11/2019 at 17:41:10
Fran, we bought him to play now. That was my point. That isn't working. As I said, I hope it works out and he becomes a great player for us. But Brands and Silva seemed to think he was ready but it's going to take time to get it back on the rails. Meanwhile we still haven't got a decent striker.
Fran Mitchell
64 Posted 17/11/2019 at 17:49:00
Pat, we have a 22-year-old striker with 5 in 12 this season, despite being isolated and the service being woeful.

I stand by this, but the striker position is NOT our problem; our problem is midfield – starting with the loss of Gueye, followed by Sigurdsson's loss of influence. Zero balance in the middle, weakening both our defenders and strikers.

We could sign any striker in the world and they'd struggle. We must improve the midfield.

Eric Paul
65 Posted 17/11/2019 at 18:01:10
Pat,

I don't think any team brings in a 19-year-old from overseas to play now. This season is to integrate him into the squad with minutes on the pitch to get him up to speed for next season.

Alexander Murphy
66 Posted 17/11/2019 at 18:06:56
Heavens above, some TWers need some basic lessons in reading & writing.

"I don't fear the hard times", good on yer, lad. It's not success that we learn from it's failure. With that section of your statement, Moise Kean, I'm reassured that you have guts (unlike some of the first responders on this thread with their cry-arse mentality).

Fresh from watching ToffeeTV's great piece with Neville Southall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLi8x36SFDQ&t=4s, I pop over here and, once again, I see losers whining and painting all Evertonians as hapless victims. Cut it out! Grow a pair and watch Big Nev (as always) talking undiluted pure Evertonianism from the heart!!!

Nev at no point in this instalment espouses anything less than 100% effort, he does accept mistakes and more importantly he explains time and again how experience hones improvement, if it's used positively.

I'm sick of poison, fake blues who continually misrepresent My Club with their victim, hard-done-by fatality. For me, our motto is everything. "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum", "Nothing But The Best Is Good Enough", and that includes our conduct as Evertonians.

Moise Kean is a 19-year-old lad living in a foreign culture who chose Everton; his estranged Dad makes a tit of himself and some TWers follow suit.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

67 Posted 17/11/2019 at 18:15:47
No Fran. The final has been switched to Lima in Peru. Adds about 30k to the capacity as it holds 80k. Expect plenty of red and black on view.

Know what you mean about Bolsonaro's Brazil. Odious man and thick as the proverbial porkie muck with it.

GP bubbling up nicely going into the last 20 laps!

Bill Gienapp
68 Posted 17/11/2019 at 18:24:50
Given their frosty relationship, if anything his father's comments should make Kean *more* determined to succeed at Everton. Let's hope so, because I'm convinced we have a massive talent on our hands.
Mark Guglielmo
69 Posted 17/11/2019 at 18:26:49
Alexander @66 what an excellent post. I hope everyone takes the time to read and digest it.

All, if it's unclear what Alexander's referring to, or you haven't yet taken the time to follow up on this whole "Kean's father said" nonsense, Moise posted something on Twitter (in Italian) to hopefully put a stop to it.

Loosely translated, he said "do not talk about my life when yours is not an example. I fear not the most difficult moments the best you come from there."

Well said, lad, your time and IMO, greatness, lie ahead.

Kenny Smith
70 Posted 17/11/2019 at 19:01:54
Kean arrived in August and immediately set a goals target of 7+. I think that says it all really. He knew this would be a tough season and fair play to him for moving countries at 19.
I think as the season goes on he ll be introduced to the starting line up and he probably knew that from the off, hence the target of 7+.
The boy just needs a bit of time. If we were flying no one would be arsed.
Alexander Murphy
71 Posted 17/11/2019 at 19:35:04
Thanks Mark G @69.
Hopefully, we're not just two voices.
Mark Guglielmo
72 Posted 17/11/2019 at 19:50:24
Even if we are Alexander, the only voices who truly matter are not posting on TW lol
Pat Kelly
73 Posted 17/11/2019 at 20:19:30
Eric, Fran, Silva's comments (below) on signing Kean, make it clear that a striker, ready to play, was considered a priority :

"A striker was one of our priority signings this summer,” said Everton’s manager, Marco Silva. “Moise is strong, fast, with many good qualities as a striker and he is just 19 years old. He has talent and he is ready to work, ready to improve our squad and gives us different solutions.”

Steavey Buckley
74 Posted 17/11/2019 at 20:28:26
Silva does not play him on the left wing where he played so well for Juventus last season. Even Walcott played far better for Arsenal on the left. Silva needs to look more closely at players where they played before signing them, and allow them to continue in their best positions.
Eric Paul
75 Posted 17/11/2019 at 20:41:16
Pat
“ A striker was one of our priority signings”
He doesn’t say kean was the priority. “ he is ready to improve the squad” not the first team ?
Pat Kelly
76 Posted 17/11/2019 at 20:58:00
Eric, which other strikers did we buy ?
Mark Guglielmo
77 Posted 17/11/2019 at 21:05:28
Steavey @74 we are possibly defining "left wing" differently. Do you mean as left striker in a 2 up-front formation, or as an actual LW in a 4-3-3? I'm guessing the former but just want to make sure, simply because he's never played a true LW position for Juve. They did switch it up from a trad. 4-3-3 to either a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 for their final 13 games (the ones he played in).

Pat @76 I think what Eric's trying to say is that just because Silva uttered those words doesn't mean he also believed Kean was the "priority striker" he wanted, or that "improving the squad" meant banging in goals in game 1. Eric, correct me if I'm wrong.

Jerome Shields
78 Posted 17/11/2019 at 21:05:40
Glad ToffeeWebers found out the truth of this Father /Son relationship.
Still think Everton need to be careful in the handling of Kean though.
Rob Marsh
79 Posted 17/11/2019 at 21:25:37
Pat Kelly # 73

Thanks for clearing Kean's status up in this club, that quote passed me by, had I have been armed with it, I would have been spraying it around like bullets out of a machine gun.

Silva took a punt on this kid and it throws a different kind of light on my # 47 post, if Silva did want him, then he's kind of gone for broke, talented but with no experience to call on and hoped he'd just have what it takes to jump in and perform.

It didn't work and we're not working.

Steavey Buckley
80 Posted 17/11/2019 at 22:03:49
Hi Mark #77. Whenever I watched Juventus in the CL last season Moise Kean was brought on the left as a sub. where he played most of his other games in Serie A. But the question is, why doesn't Silva put Moise Kean in the same position where he is most comfortable with? I have seen him in games this season where he is neither comfortable on the right or in the centre.

Liverpool have Salah and Mane in their same positions week after week. So it does work having players in positions where they are most comfortable with.

It's the same with Walcott, he liked to cut in from the left on to his right foot, and scored many goals for Arsenal, but now he is played as a right winger, and is not the same player. So the confusion is not with the players at the club, but with the manager.

David Thomas
81 Posted 17/11/2019 at 22:19:09
Our options for the striker position are DCL, Kean and Tosun and yet some fans are saying we have great options.

I must watch a different game to most people if that’s a popular viewpoint.

David Pearl
82 Posted 17/11/2019 at 22:25:32
David,

and Richarlison and Walcott. Silva, after 18 months, is finally tinkering with his tactics, so we might get to see something different, as he is forced to trust his players... as in Davies and Holgate. He has to get the others going so he can slot kean into the team and not have to heavily rely on a 19 year old.

Mark Guglielmo
83 Posted 17/11/2019 at 23:09:51
Steavey @80, ok, you & I are saying virtually the same thing. Juve moved to a 2-striker formation once they wanted to slot Kean into the lineup. Kean was on the left, and there was a rotating partner to the right, most often Ronaldo. It was just the "left wing" part that threw me off.

He is a striker/center forward, just not a lone striker as we've seen too much of in that blasted 4-2-3-1 that I hate haha. Which probably answers the "why doesn't Silva" question as well. Right guy, wrong use/formation. Definitely not on the right!

I have faith we will see this work out though, especially once we finally get our midfield healthy and can in all likelihood regularly run out the 4-3-3 he wants. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that Silva simply doesn't trust our midfield to pull it off effectively.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
84 Posted 18/11/2019 at 01:35:02
Alexendar @66,

Despite adulation from the talkative Mark Guglielmo, I'm afraid you're going to have to come up with a very good defence for posting this indiscriminate broadside attack, presumably directed at other Evertonians using this site, but with whom you disagree:

I'm sick of poison, fake blues who continually misrepresent My Club with their victim, hard-done-by fatality. [Emphasis added]

Please either cite some specific examples to justify such an attack or post a retraction.

Jim Harrison
85 Posted 18/11/2019 at 03:02:27
For me, he is unfortunately a victim of the team's poor form.

Had the season gone the way we hoped, he would likely have been given more playing time. But it's a big ask for a young lad with very little Premier League experience to come in and turn games where the starting 11 hasn't delivered.

I don't blame Silva for going with other players who have to a degree proved their worth, especially opting to go with Richarlison up top as it has worked before. Calvert-Lewin has got goals and Tosun has an assist and goal off the bench this season.

Hopefully we can get a bit of form, and a break on the injury front because, for me, that also has an impact on Kean being given a chance. If the midfield is weakened, the manager has to compensate. With Kean as yet unproven, he is likely to be conservative. If we are at full strength and have a 2-goal advantage, he has a bit of leeway to give the lad experience.

Michael Kenrick
86 Posted 18/11/2019 at 03:24:42
Mark @44, you tell us all this is a complete fabrication, that we should all ignore, as it is not true.

Then @69, you praise Moise Kean for replying to his father's "fabricated" message???

Which one is it? And how are we to assess the value in any advice, knowledge or wisdom you are giving us moving forward?

Mark Guglielmo
87 Posted 18/11/2019 at 03:50:58
Michael, I said the story is b.s., not whether his father said it or not.

What I wrote at @44:
The source, once again, is an Italian clickbait site that PAYS for people - in this case, a father who hasn't been in Kean's life for 15 years - to create stories where there are none, then reports them as news. Each click generates ad revenue, and so the cycle continues.

Giving this actual credence by reporting it as news is no different than the National Enquirer here in the States putting "Obama secret memoirs reveal plans to help Al-Qaeda!!" And then segments of the population run with it as gospel. Really, really disappointed.

Kean choosing to respond to it I can only assume was to confirm that there's no truth or actual story here. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you.

It's obviously up to you whether you pay attention to anything I say; I doubt you're the first!

Steve Brown
88 Posted 18/11/2019 at 05:52:08
Deadbeat Dad tries to creep his way back into successful son's life, probably induced by kickbacks from tabloid journos to create controversy. Moise's damning response was top drawer!

It would make a refreshing change if us fans didn't leap on the such stories to again undermine our young players. A 19 year old with huge potential who has taken a big bet in a foreign league, he has my complete respect. He has not played well in a poorly performing team (no surprise there, he has only had rare opportunities and frequently played out of position - that is down to the management. He was late for one tea meeting? He'll learn from it.

It is no surprise that DCL and Davies have shown better form since being given a longer run in their favoured positions when injuries and poor performances forced Marco Silva's hand. Jonjo Kenny is doing superbly at Schalke now he is a regular. I know Silva is under huge pressure and it feels safer to lean on senior pros - unsurprisingly they have let him down as they did other managers.

The likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurddson, Walcott, Tosun and Seamus are not the future of this club. The future of the club are our young players.

Stan Schofield
89 Posted 18/11/2019 at 10:37:42
Michael@86 and Mark@87: It seems to me that whether Kean's dad said it or didn't say it is irrelevant to Everton. Kean is an adult, and a professional under contract at Everton. If the team starts to gel better and get better results, chances are Kean will fare better and make a bigger contribution. Surely that is all that is relevant to Everton?
Michael Boardman
90 Posted 18/11/2019 at 10:56:36
I think those arguing we would be so much better off with a proven striker, as opposed to Kean, are missing the point that any goal scored by said proven strike could / probably would have been ruled out via VAR. Seriously the panic this season, and the argument around who plays, wouldn't be that prevalent if we'd had more favourable decisions (extra 7-10 points). In which case, Moise would have, in theory, been able to play more games (where the manager felt less under pressure), and maybe felt more at home because he's doing what he's employed to do well.
Paul A Smith
91 Posted 18/11/2019 at 11:48:52
John, post 4, says all about that needs saying. Anything else is typical Evertonia heresay or nonsense.

Michael 86 you have a pop at the 'talkative' Mark like its wrong to have more than one post but time and time again your veteran posters that create constant negatives with no real substance, continue their poisonous jackanory for as long as they like.

The Words (such an attack) made me chuckle.

The threads are full of attacks of many sorts.

Fans are attacked for worrying about the squad, fake manager allegations we see so often

The whole Kean Coronation Street hype has been largely enhanced by your partners take on the "mis-management of Kean", again with very little substance.

Richard Mason
92 Posted 18/11/2019 at 11:49:32
Anyone reading Steve Walsh saying he could have gotten maguire and Robertson for 20 mil, wasn't backed and had a deal for haaland for 4 mil done, again Club didn't want them
Tommy Carter
93 Posted 18/11/2019 at 12:00:15
@92 Richard

It’s ridiculous from Walsh. There are so many variables that influence these players and how they are today.

Robertson is a product of outstanding coaching from Liverpool and a system that really suits him.

Don’t forget, Kloepp didn’t pick him to start for a long period of his first season because he wasn’t able to provide the team with what the Liverpool manager was demanding.

Would he have been the same player in a Ronald Koeman Everton team? For me it’s doubtful.

Say we did sign Haaland. This young man has played a lot of football for his age, no doubt augmenting his outstanding development.

I can only envisage that had he joined Everton, he would’ve gone straight to Rhino in the u23s and I’m doubtful that this would’ve been anywhere near as beneficial to him. Failing that, when we were struggling for goals after Lukaku went, we put a very young teenager up top in First Team Premier League football and watch him struggle.

As long as Steve Walsh is comfortable with it all.

Maybe he should reflect on the players he actually did sign. If he didn’t agree then and felt they weren’t good enough, he should’ve left the club. As quite rightly he was judged on the players that were brought in.

Good riddance.

Sam Hoare
94 Posted 18/11/2019 at 12:03:09
Think there's a lot of smoke with very little fire here. Seems like an embittered Dad and a young talent who (like the vast majority of young foreign talents moving to the PL) will take some time to settle and will probably find it alot easier when the team is doing a bit better.

I'd be amazed to see him go on loan in January but expect he will get more game time in a packed December.

I also think he will do a lot better with Iwobi at 10 instead of Sigurdsson. The former shows for the ball alot more and likes to play balls to feet whilst with the latter we seem to attack almost entirely through the wings and full backs and I doubt Kean will ever benefit from loads of high crosses in this league. he wants the ball to feet in the box or in front of him so he is able to run at defenders.

Daniel A Johnson
95 Posted 18/11/2019 at 12:51:01
When Klopp buys players they often vanish for a period of time while they are "coached" into the style of play of the team. Then they seem to come into the first team like regulars.

I hope we are working behind the scenes with Kean and getting him up to speed. Hopefully SIlva is working on him and can show us this fabled coaching ability that some people on here regularly talk about it.

Mark Guglielmo
96 Posted 18/11/2019 at 13:17:18
Sam @94 this is an excellent point:

"I also think he will do a lot better with Iwobi at 10 instead of Sigurdsson. The former shows for the ball alot more and likes to play balls to feet whilst with the latter we seem to attack almost entirely through the wings and full backs and I doubt Kean will ever benefit from loads of high crosses in this league. he wants the ball to feet in the box or in front of him so he is able to run at defenders."

I'm pretty sure he didn't have a single goal off a header last year. Not sure about when he was even younger, but I don't remember one on any of his YouTube highlight reels either. All his goals come from his feet.

Paul @91 I appreciate you saying that, thank you. It's apparent that I rub people the wrong way, so I'll probably just hang out in the live matchday forums moving forward. Cheers.

Tony Everan
97 Posted 18/11/2019 at 15:34:31
Tommy 93

Good post, Walsh is blowing his own trumpet, and unless he is a simpleton he will know there are many factors at play. This ''I told you so'' stance tells us all we need to know about him.

Ray Smith
98 Posted 18/11/2019 at 16:39:32
Let’s draw a line under the increase in back biting and nit picking on people’s posts and opinions.

Opinions and views are what TW is about!

Agree to disagree if you have too, but stop making it personal.

Get a life and move on.

Paul A Smith
99 Posted 18/11/2019 at 18:07:13
Ray I agree mate. That is definately the ideal situation for the best of everything concerned.

From the bottom I'd love a straight chat, debate, or disagreement with absolutely any Evertonian but surely the points that lack foundation have to be shot down or we never move forward?

Frustration has lead to some really petty opinions and accusations when we used to be so constructive and composed.

Tommy Carter
100 Posted 18/11/2019 at 18:16:52
@97

Tony. Completely mate

It’s ok throwing Haalands name into the ring when he’s had an outstanding 6 month period. But where was he 12 months ago with this story?

Also. He happens to name 4 players doing well. Surely he recommended others who we also didn’t sign. Who were those, Steve?

Tommy Carter
101 Posted 18/11/2019 at 18:21:05
@97

Tony. Completely mate

It’s ok throwing Haalands name into the ring when he’s had an outstanding 6 month period. But where was he 12 months ago with this story?

Also. He happens to name 4 players doing well. Surely he recommended others who we also didn’t sign. Who were those, Steve?

Dan Nulty
102 Posted 18/11/2019 at 18:25:53
The kid is 19, moved to a foreign country, playing in a team that has largely been struggling to create chances and leaves the one striker very isolated up front. Is it anyway he looked lost? Bit of a different climate to adjust to when you move from a team with Ronaldo and Dybala taking players away from you to give you space to our static midfield and wing play.

Give the lad time and patience and hopefully he will come good. Nearly everyone was cockahoop when we signed him.

Tom Bowers
103 Posted 18/11/2019 at 18:29:46
There is obviously a world of difference between what is happening at Goodison and what's going on over the park and for the true blue supporters it is very hard to stomach.

We could argue all day about the reasons why and still disagree on most points. I don't like Klopp but he is on another planet compared to Silva.

Sadly everything that has gone wrong at Goodison has gone right at Anfield and it's not all down to cash flow.

There should be a big inquiry into the Moise Kean situation and it should be sorted right now. Was he an import of Silva's and, if so, why has he not progressed?

They paid big money for him and it is appearing now that he has become a big flop like so many other players brought in over the last few seasons like Davy Klaassen for instance.

Hopefully it isn't too late to turn the Kean situation around but if he is disgruntled or if Silva isn't impressed by what he has shown so far then he has to be moved out.

The season is becoming just another yawn like so many we have unfortunately witnessed since the eighties after we all thought that moneybags Moshiri would really get things moving but it's hard to see Silva making much improvement now.

James Flynn
104 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:13:14
Walsh in believable. He was, in the end, just a scout. And I'm ready to believe anything about that period. Very strange how the front office was running then. For sure, Walsh wouldn't have the last word on any signings.

Best one is his telling Mourinho about signing Lukaku to ManU, "He's a big baby, you know." I wish we kept Romelu, but that's funny.

And Andrew Robertson is a product of Andrew Robertson, not the RS coaching staff, for goodness sake. And he's been a regular for at least 2 seasons. You can't miss him. When was all this time Klopp didn't play him? I wish he wouldn't play him against us.

Tony Hill
105 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:19:47
I think Martinez and Reeves were looking at Robertson when he was at Dundee United.
Paul Tran
106 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:34:48
He did look at Robertson, Tony. I heard he backed off him because we had Baines and needed to use our meagre budget elsewhere. He also repeatedly looked at Van Dijk when he was at Celtic. Ended up with Funes Mori instead. I've always wondered whether that was down to the fee or whether Martinez actually thought Funds Mori was better. Imagine the money we'd have got when we sold Van Dijk two years later and who he wouldn't have signed for!
Paul Tran
107 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:34:49
He did look at Robertson, Tony. I heard he backed off him because we had Baines and needed to use our meagre budget elsewhere. He also repeatedly looked at Van Dijk when he was at Celtic. Ended up with Funes Mori instead. I've always wondered whether that was down to the fee or whether Martinez actually thought Funds Mori was better. Imagine the money we'd have got when we sold Van Dijk two years later and who he wouldn't have signed for!
Mark Guglielmo
108 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:43:04
Tom @103, at the risk of being too "talkative," I just can't understand how or why comments such as this one...

"There should be a big inquiry into the Moise Kean situation and it should be sorted right now.
Was he an import of Silva's and if so why has he not progressed.
They paid big money for him and it is appearing now that he has become a big flop like so many other players brought in over the last few season like Davy Klassen for instance.
Hopefully it isn't too late to turn the Kean situation around but if he is disgruntled or if Silva isn't impressed by what he has shown so far then he has to be moved out."

...are still being made. Can you help me understand? What inquiry? He's a flop? Too late to turn around what? There are some who keep saying "big money paid," as if Moise himself set his sale price. £27m is not big money paid in 2019. We paid more for Lukaku at the age of 20 6 years ago (and he had already spent 3+ years learning to play football in England).

He's 19. He's been here for 4-months of a 4-year contract. He's almost universally thought-of as among the top 20 players under 20 in the world, including many who went for 2-3 times the asking price. I just don't get this argument.

I know there's a chance you'll take my directness as anger, or attacking, toward you. It's not. I just have a really hard time with any of this sentiment.

Eric Paul
109 Posted 18/11/2019 at 19:57:02
Walsh should talk about the shite he did sign not the superstars he allegedly could have signed
Tony Hill
110 Posted 18/11/2019 at 20:04:29
Makes you weep, Paul. I remember Harold Matthews was always urging the purchase of Van Dijk.
Tommy Carter
111 Posted 18/11/2019 at 20:05:33
@104 James

You’re incorrect. He never became a regular until December through to January in his first season. Around the halfway point.

And my next point is about opinion. For me, he looks unbelievably good in that team. I think in other teams, such as a garbage one like Everton, he wouldn’t look as good.

Their system, coaching and strategy relies heavily on the wing backs and releasing them as part of the attacking phase of their play. They work extremely hard to create space for them and as such they get a lot of time on the ball and a lot of play in the final third.

Just look at how he and Trent both perform with their respective international teams. They are nowhere near as effective

Paul Tran
112 Posted 18/11/2019 at 20:10:07
Indeed, Tony. A few of us wanted him and were told he plays in 'a shit league'. That may be true, but class is class and he had it in spades at Celtic.
Andy Crooks
113 Posted 18/11/2019 at 20:38:09
Good post, Tommy @ 93. Walsh won the lottery, he got lucky and Is made for life. I think a director of football should be judged on what he has done and, by God, he was shite; not what he says he could have done.
David Pearl
114 Posted 18/11/2019 at 21:13:42
Nice response from Kean.

Believe it or not, l recon give us a year, possibly two and we could be dynamite... if they all progress as they should and are allowed the time. That doesn't necessarily mean time for the manager. Big few weeks coming up but in all honesty it would be better for all if Silva comes good. (Even if l did want him gone).

Dick Fearon
115 Posted 18/11/2019 at 22:06:33
Lukaku's dad was another interfering old bugger.
James Marshall
116 Posted 19/11/2019 at 12:20:16
So what's this thread all about? It reads like a vehicle for you lot to have an argument about nothing!
Steve Ferns
117 Posted 19/11/2019 at 12:21:22
James, isn't this ToffeeWeb in a nutshell? All of us having pointless arguments about nothing?
James Marshall
118 Posted 19/11/2019 at 12:23:28
Are you trying to start an argument with me, Steve? ;-)
Steve Ferns
119 Posted 19/11/2019 at 12:31:44
haha
James Flynn
120 Posted 19/11/2019 at 15:06:11
Tommy (111) - "For me, he looks unbelievably good in that team. I think in other teams, such as a garbage one like Everton, he wouldn’t look as good."

For God's sake, are you dense or just playing around? He looks unbelievably good because he IS unbelievably good. He'd look exactly as good in "garbage" Everton (real nice) or have you not watched Digne since he arrived?

Robertson is the "result" of HIS physical gift, HIS developed skill, HIS determination, and HIS hard work. Not fucking Klopp.

Stan Schofield
121 Posted 19/11/2019 at 15:30:43
James@120: I think some perspective is needed here.

How good a player looks is heavily dependent on how well the team is playing. When the team gels, players look better. Robertson plays alongside the best CH in the world, who has had a massive influence on that defence.

In your final paragraph, all of those attributes are indeed necessary conditions for success. But they are not sufficient conditions. Playing in a good side is of paramount importance, especially to younger players.

Despite football being a 'simple game', drawing conclusions about how good a player is without considering the quality of the team is not simple. And appealing to a God is unlikely to help clarify your perception.

Steve Ferns
122 Posted 19/11/2019 at 15:50:56
James, I would say Robinson is the product of Silva's coaching, rather than Klipperty's! It was under Silva that he began the rapid improvements in his game that he has continued at Liverpool. I definitely acknowledge that he has continued improving at Liverpool. You could also look at Harry Maguire's career taking off under Silva too.

Andy Robertson on Silva

Peter Jansson
123 Posted 19/11/2019 at 20:16:12
I think this is riduculous. Why did we sign one of the hottest stars in europe and then not let him play in his best position? What kind of bullshit is that?

Same with Gibson. We have one of the best young centerback in europe and we don't let him play... That is also bullshit. He should have the chance to play a match or two. He could be brilliant. Its impossible to know if he do not get the chance.

This is useless management of Silva.

Mark Guglielmo
124 Posted 19/11/2019 at 20:48:35
2 goals for Kean in the 1st half of Italy's U21 match today. *whistles innocently*
Steve Ferns
125 Posted 19/11/2019 at 20:57:46
Nice one mark. Let’s hope that helps his confidence. I thought he was suspended?
Bobby Mallon
126 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:25:00
Micheal I agree with Paul A Smith
Mark Guglielmo
127 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:45:56
Steve, just for the one match, apparently. Got the start today!
Steve Ferns
128 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:46:49
Nice one mark. I hope he’s back fresh and ready for Norwich.
Tony Abrahams
129 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:48:56
I think that applies to us all Steve because there fu.king shite these boring international breaks imo mate
Steve Ferns
130 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:51:42
Tony, wouldn’t it be better for all to play the internationals over a winter period, like say January and get them all done and dusted in a month. That way the club season is not as stop start, and the international break has more of a club feel to get the players to bond better and gel into a team. It’ll also get the fans on board more as well?
Tony Abrahams
131 Posted 19/11/2019 at 21:57:39
I’m not sure Steve, but it’s an idea mate. Even a couple of 2 week breaks, were they could play 4/5 times (pick 26 man squads?) rather than the way it’s been lately.

I worry more for the South American players and was hoping Richarlison and Everton had decided to blag his injury at Southampton, just to give the kid a bit of a rest.

Steve Ferns
132 Posted 19/11/2019 at 22:11:18
Yeah Tony. Might be an idea to rest up Richarlison. Jay wood points out that it’s not as long a flight as he’s in Abu Dhabi or somewhere like that. Still 8 hours on a plane though. No doubt silva will play him though.

I’d love to see young Gordon get a game. He’s on fire right now. He’s got to be very close now.

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