Cannon fodder for the ebullient Champions

Everton went into the final match of the 2020-21 season with European football supposedly still within their grasp but ended up providing limp cannon fodder for the ebullient Champions amidst a rampant farewell to Sergio Agüero.

Michael Kenrick 23/05/2021 560comments  |  Jump to last
Manchester City 5 - 0 Everton

Everton went into the final match of the 2020-21 season with European football supposedly still within their grasp but ended up providing limp cannon fodder for the ebullient champions amidste a rampant farewell to Sergio Aguero.

Ancelotti was without James Rodriguez and Seamus Coleman. James had been given permission by the club to return to Colombia to begin preparations for the Copa America, while Coleman had to come off in the second half against Wolves with an injury so Ancelotti brings Holgate back in at right-back against the newly-crowned Champions.

Doucouré and Davies are reunited in central midfield with Allan. Otherwise, the starting line-up is unchanged, but the bench is depleted with Mina missing with, yet again, two goalkeepers and only 6 outfield players.

Everton play in their newly unveiled 'Black Watch' away strip for next season, featuring a stylish 'burnt orange' sash that has stirred up some old enmities amongst the fanbase. Rather a pity as the club's fanfare for t says: "Everton's 2021-22 away kit — designed to celebrate 140 years of togetherness within the Everton community."

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It was party time for the Citizens with Everton players lining p for a guard of honour to the Champions, and then all the players doing likewise for Serio Aguero.

Everton kicked off but City were soon knocking it about, exhibition style, befitting the auspicious occasion with plucky little Everton the invited guests to make up the numbers and provide them with some target practice in preparation for next weekend's Champions League Final.

Everton got a little bit of possession, and Sigurdsson fired a weak shot straight to Edison. Calvert-Lewin was then played in with a nice pass and he tested Edison a little with a shot to his side that the City keeper got down well to. Jesus got in closer on Pickford, who came out well to save, and the Black Watch repelled CIty's early corner until Richarlison pathetically pulled back Marhez: automatic yellow card. Stones headed the set-piece high over the Everton goal.

Some simple clean passing and a nice build-up saw De Bruyne pounce on a chance and lash it past Pickford to open the scoring. Everton's resistance lasted almost 11 minutes.

The second goal came 2 minutes later, as Keane dribbled needlessly into a midfield ambush and City surged forward, Jesus made no mistake. Utterly embarrassing.

Everton's football got worse, Godfry needlessly forcing Pickford to save a corner by lashing the ball out. Richarlison, who should really be taken off, then fouled Jesus, but Everton cleared the set-piece with no further damage sustained.

Holgate was next in the book, getting beaten easily by Foden and then sliding in late for another dangerous set-piece, De Bruyne forcing a great save by Pickford, with City now totally dominating the play. Doucouré did well to stop Foden.

Everton tried valiantly to venture upfield but found it challenging to retain the ball, while City relaxed their tempo. Allan fed Richarlison for a clumsy shot as Stones ran across him, but it won Everton a corner. That led to a rapid break by De Bryune who Digne did well to stay up with.

Richarlison got free and was pulled down by Diaz before he could shoot, a clear attempt to deny a goalscoring opportunity... and a penalty, but not a red card — only yellow, of course. And of course, Sigurdsson could not beat Edison with a very predictable and savable shot from the spot. Fernandinho was cleared by VAR of encroaching, even though he was well inside the dee, but it's one rule for the Champions...

Calvert-Lewin seemed to be taken down near the spot in Everton's next attack but of course no penalty given. Richarlison then tried hard to work an angle and claimed his shot was stopped by a handball, but still nothing from VAR. At the other end, a good Mahrez shot smacked off the face of Pickford's crossbar with the Everton keeper rooted.

Pickford did very well to stop Sterling with a tackle but maybe the City man pulled back under the circumstances, as half-time arrived.

Sigurdsson forced an early corner after the break but nothing came of it. Sigurdsson tried to show he could still shoot from distance... and failed miserably to come anywhere near the target.

Everton forced another corner that was delivered in well but Stones was at the sweet spot. That led to a deflected Foden shot and a corner that Dias powered straight at Pickford. Foden did then make it 3 after Doucoure was dispossessed on the half-way line, finishing off another simple move that caught Everton cold.

Rodrigo came on and missed an open goal set-up, as Ancelotti did his ever so predictable subs: Iwobi and Bernard. Godfrey did well to cut out a Sterling cross at the expense of a corner. At the other end, for once, Richarlison passed nicely to the feet of Calvert-Lewin but he just skipped over the ball rather than trying to shoot, and allowed the defender to nip in and take the ball. No determination whatsoever.

Aguero's going away party then swung into full force. Everton's Mission Impossible, should they choose to accept it, was to stop him scoring. But it was Iwobi who produced his best work of the season (no, seriously) only Richarlison, with the ball played perfectly to feet, could not dig out a shot and the chance evaporated.

But of course they couldn't stop Agüero scoring, the ball stolen off Davies as Everton moved forward, leaving City acres of space to create his penultimate moment of glory. The next was to make it 5-0 with a ridiculous unmarked header. Pickford then stopped two efforts at a hat-trick with two fine save.

The exhibition stuff came out but at least Everton and especially Pickford did what they could to keep the score in single digits.

What a dismal end to a season that started so well, with Everton topping the table, to now be humbled by the Champions and pummeled down to a dreadful finish in 10th place with the ultimate ignominy of a negative goal difference. The biggest ever defeat suffered by Carlo Ancelotti in an otherwise stellar football career as player and manager.

Kick-off: 4pm, Sunday 23 May 2021 on Sky Sports Premier League

Manchester City: Ederson, Walker, Dias [Y:41'], Stones, Zinchenko, Fernandinho (C), Mahrez (65' Agüero), De Bruyne, Foden (57' Rodrigo), Sterling [Y:68'], Jesus (74' Torres).
Subs not Used: Steffen, Aké, Gündogan, Laporte, Bernardo, Mendy.

Everton: Pickford, Holgate [Y:22'], Godfrey, Keane, Digne, Allan, Davies, Doucouré (57' Iwobi), Sigurdsson (59' Bernard), Richarlison [Y:7'] (78' Nkounkou), Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Used: Virginia, Olsen, Gomes, Coleman, John.

Referee: Michael Oliver
VAR: Darren England

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Brent Stephens
1 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:03:23
Feck. Look at that Man City line-up!
Thomas Richards
2 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:04:12
Pep has picked a weak eleven.
Rob Halligan
3 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:05:39
I'm surprised, Thomas. I really thought a lot of that starting line-up would be rested.
Michael Kenrick
4 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:08:21
Err... looks like a pretty strong City team to me!
Sam Fitzsimmons
5 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:08:22
The Man City line up is just plain scary and then you look at their bench. How Everton get anything out of this game would take a miracle. I fancy we'll get a win.
Brian Wilkinson
6 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:09:37
Coleman although not a chance of playing, wanted to be on the bench to give his team mates morale support and one final push.

Coleman will come on, on crutches, if he thought he could give something for the team, what a guy, might give Coleman the last few mins Max for a cameo.

But unless Carlo has kidded us all, looks a no go for Coleman.

Jay Wood

7 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:11:08
So much for City resting key players ahead of the Champions League final.

Mina nowhere to be seen. A small reshuffle with Holgate at right-back for Coleman, Godfrey paired with Keane at center-back, Davies reinforcing midfield alongside Allan and Doucouré. Sigurdsson the 'creative' presence in the line-up.

Gerinto 'em, Blues.

Brian Wilkinson
8 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:12:23
Looks like Iwobi, Bernard and Gomes will be our three subs coming on, replacing Davies, Sigurdsson and whoever for third spot.
Mark Frere
9 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:18:08
Looks like we're not playing with any width then.
Richard Nelson
10 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:19:03
...clears off to S.America Rodriguez is "running the show"...?
Kieran Kinsella
11 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:19:14
Brian 6

Exactly. Not like his brave heart buddy James

Ciarán McGlone
12 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:26:33
At 11-2 I'm sticking a score on us.

Yes, I'm deluded.

Alan J Thompson
13 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:35:01
Is Coleman fit to play or not given that Nkounkou is the only other defender on the bench with any, barely none, experience in the first team.
Martin Berry
14 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:36:13
It would be hard for whoever is playing City. I am pleased we are playing three in the middle to try and have some kind of control/limitation, at least we wont be lack fight in that area.
Darren Hind
15 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:37:28
I got 6's this morning Ciaran.

I put an Ayrton Senna on that.

I had one of those premonitions which have cost me so dearly down the years.

Backing the boys away from home has been a lucrative little side show this season

Rob Halligan
16 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:40:57
Seventy notes coming your way then, Darren. Ales on you first home game next season!!
Thomas Richards
17 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:46:30
Hes not fit Alan J.

Peps selection surprised me tbh Rob.

Brian Wilkinson
18 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:46:42
Far as I am aware Alan@13, no, but he wanted to be there, giving his team mates his support from the bench, instead of the stands, unless Carlo has kidded us all.
Darren Hind
19 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:47:06
Haha Rob
Both My lads saw my last post and send a txt message saying exactly the same thing.

Its gonna cost me about 80 qid to win sixty at this rate

Brian Wilkinson
20 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:49:10
City naming a strong team could work in our favour, get a few hard tackles in, and they will pull out of all the 50/50 balls.

Rather this City line up, than their second choice eleven, that would get stuck in.

Danny O’Neill
21 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:49:22
This is going to be a long one looking at the line ups.

We're going for compact with no width. Likely Dominic and Richarlison will have long periods of being isolated.

I hope your wagers come in.

Neil Lawson
22 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:51:08
Is there a reason why we can not name a full bench of substitutes? At a loss to understand.
Dave Lynch
23 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:53:55
Looking at that City line up this is going to be a real tough one.

They are either going to play conservative or pass the living daylights out of us.

Either way its going to be an interesting game.

Barry Williams
24 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:55:41
It will be fine! We have the full support of James - I think he can get the game on his private jet, so doesn't need to be at the ground supporting his 'team-mates' !


Thomas Richards
25 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:56:40
Read a few times today about trying to frighten City.
They have a lad in midfield who will welcome that type of game.
He is also a lot better at it than anyone we have.
Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:56:46
What a career King had at Everton, just over two hours playing time, I wonder how much that cost? Absolutely ridiculous waste of Mr. Moshiri’s money, scandalous to be honest.
Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 23/05/2021 at 15:57:23
I think Everton only win when we get a few negative posts, once the team comes in, so why don’t you fuck off Ancellotti, and don’t come back until you find us some decent wingers.

I remember getting destroyed in a last game of the season at City, possibly Rooney’s last game in a blue shirt, (I can’t even remember if he played, because I was on the ale underneath the stands for most of the game) but I’d take another hiding today, if it meant we got into the top four next season, once Carlo finds us some width on the pitch, and some fucking depth off it!

Danny O’Neill
28 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:00:45
5 - 0 Tony. Moyes' second season and yes Rooney's last game.

Strange signing Dave.

Right here we go. I'm off to watch the match. Good luck erm ......Black Watch?!!

Anthony Murphy
29 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:01:00
They’re in party mood - can’t be that focused. Let’s get stuck in lads
Derek Knox
30 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:02:14
Got No Ring of Confidence with Holgate !
Simon Dalzell
31 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:10:41
Richarlison brainless as ever. Needless yellow card on 6 mins. What price red.
Ciarán McGlone
32 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:16:56
Michael Keane owes me twenty quid.. the mutton head.
Brendan McLaughlin
33 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:20:34
Anthony #29
Thank fuck they're not focused
Sean O’Hanlon
35 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:23:12
Negative goal difference here we come!
Kevin Dyer
36 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:23:30
Could end up getting a hiding here.
Joe McMahon
37 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:23:53
Oh dear, 10th and negative goal difference on the cards. Pace in midfield and goal scoring strikers needed next season.

We are on a different planet to all top 4 teams, still.

Ciarán McGlone
39 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:33:39
And that awful red stripe needs to go.. whoever thought that was a good idea needs demoted.
Simon Dalzell
40 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:43:15
We're a complete shambles as a club. Who thought Sigurdsson would score.
Frank McGregor
41 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:47:48
Thank God we will not be in Europe next season. The main priority will be to ensure Premier League status.
Ciarán McGlone
42 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:52:11
Davies, Doucoure, Allan and Sigurdsson are truly average midfielders.

We need an entire midfield replacement. Pretty stark.

Kevin Molloy
43 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:54:22
if they get another couple it will have been a good half. if we can keep them to two it will be a great half.
Thomas Richards
44 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:55:05
Michael Keane with a lovely impression of Beckenbauer for the first goal.
Neil Lawson
45 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:58:35
A strange half. Men against boys in terms of skill but strangely we do appear to be committed and hard working for once. As above, never thought the pen would go in. It's not great, but given it's Shittee, it is better than recently and at least there is some effort to play forward quicker. Ultimately 2-0, whilst very disappointing, wouldn't be the worst result of the season.
We do have to try and find something positive to say !
Tony Abrahams
46 Posted 23/05/2021 at 16:59:03
I can’t believe they haven’t showed us that tackle on DCL, which might have resulted in us getting another penalty, but I suppose when the checks complete it doesn’t matter anyway.

I didn’t fancy Sigurdson to score!

Jay Wood

47 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:01:51
Well that's a mixed bag.

Started very well with two shots on target in the opening five minutes. City doing what they do best and we don't on their first goal. Quick one touch passing and movement which led to an overload Holgate couldn't deal with. A player of De Bruyne's class is always likely to hurt you there and he did.

Within 3 minutes shot ourselves in the foot with Keane taking on too much and running into traffic on the half way, vacating the space behind him. Again, the quality of Jesus did the rest.

We looked as if we could be on to a hiding, but actually came back well and should be just the one goal down. We are certainly getting in and around the City penalty area more than I anticipated.

Tom Davies having a fine game. Looking and receiving the ball. Carry it and passing it well.

At 2-1 you would restart the 2nd half with some belief, but still at 2-0 it's a big ask.

Oh! And Jim Beglin's commentary continues to be exceedingly dire.

Kevin Molloy
48 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:02:25
if Carlo comes on at full time and says tenth is a good season, given that the quality of football has been jettisoned for the sake of getting points on the board, he can stick it right up his jumper. We are a pretty dreadful bottling side. He should apologise.
Alan J Thompson
49 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:03:22
Powderpuff Calvert-Lewin followed just as badly from the penalty spot, footballers who have difficulty kicking a ball!

And what the defence was doing for both goals, one defender not knowing whether to go to the man out wide or the one with the ball ended up going to neither and then Godfrey, the man to enable us to play further upfield caught hanging back probably waiting for the inevitable back pass. Both Holgate and Godfrey have problems with their positioning.

And I'm not sure if this Referee seems to be either biased or just poor as he's booked three Everton players for things he's barely given free kicks against City players for much the same thing, why wasn't De Bruyne booked for catching Allan with his studs? If it's good for the goose and we know which one looks more goosed!

Tony Twist
50 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:04:22
Relic of a club with a dinosaur of a manager. Until we change our whole philosophy and not try and rely on players like Siggy or players with sick notes like Delph, James and for most of his time at Everton, Mina, nothing will change. You always knew it would come to this when comparisons were made with Arsenal and Everton and who got the best manager, we would end up the losers. How on earth did we allow Arteta to finish above us. Let's hope we show some pride and win the second half.
Phil Smith
51 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:05:03
As I thought as the seadon was drawing to a close - 10th. Pathetic.
Mark Ryan
52 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:05:20
Glad to see that Holgate got within 2 yards of each goal scorer. It's about par for the course. Shop window for Pep to have a close look at him ? He'll be lucky to interest either of the Sheffield managers. Woeful, disinterested season for him. Sell him please. If you're in any doubt just re-watch both goals and watch him. No real pace, no interest, could not care less. A massive weak link for our team.
Kevin Prytherch
53 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:06:32
An overload Holgate couldn’t deal with is a bit harsh there. Doucoure was static in the middle with De Bruyne running into space behind him. Holgate then tracks the ball to Sterling, which it looks like the ball was intended, and De Bruyne has all the time in the world.

If the first goal is an overload Holgate couldn’t deal with, then the second is an overload Godfrey couldn’t deal with. In reality, neither player was culpable for the goals.

Ciarán McGlone
54 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:19:31
Holgate is a complete liability. So much potential completely vanished.
Mark Ryan
55 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:24:25
Would you be happy to see I'm in our team next season Kevin ? I personally thinks he's woeful. I guess my problem when watching them play this season is I tend to focus on the weaker players hoping they'll do better each game but like Iwobi he's one I'd be happy to sell. I'm not a player hater, I don't favour anyone, I don't despise any players, it's not my way, I just think he and a few others are not that bothered when they play. Probably my age and the changing face of how Everton play...lacklustre
Kevin Dyer
56 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:27:00
Finally started putting hard tackles in now we're 3 down. Foden off as soon as he gets a rough challenge. If we'd started like that the first 5 minutes we may have had a chance, but we've allowed them to play around us for 55m without laying a glove on them. One would think we had nothing on this game.

Huge rebuild in the summer, need 5 quality additions, the obvious shipped out and decisions made on a few players (Iwobi, Holgate, Keane, Gomes) that have featured heavily this season.

For me, I'd look to sell Keane. Nice lad but has limitations that he cannot overcome. Teams that plan to use a deep line would be very interested. Holgate would command a smaller fee and despite having a poor season could turn it around. Keane is just too slow and lacking in agility. Ditto with Gomes. I'd sell Iwobi also, offers very little going forward. I'd actually prefer to keep Bernard, but it's been obvious since last season that Ancelotti doesn't rate him.

Kevin Dyer
57 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:33:22
Lol who couldn't see Aguero getting his hero's sendoff courtesy of soft-arse Everton.
Phil Wood
58 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:34:35
Outclassed but trying. Oliver one biased Git.
I like the Kit but saying that I haven't got any religious hang ups. I remember similar when had green on the badge. I liked that too. Bit of a stupid protest unless it was Red or unless you just don't like the kit as a kit.
As we know already we need a pretty big overhaul for next season.
No point in raving on about what's happening on the pitch as it is probably what we were all expecting.
BUT not resigned to mediocracy next season. Won't accept another season of Crap. No more excuses! Expect big improvements.
Kevin Dyer
59 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:41:03
Hattrick for Aguero? Honestly, the game was gone at halftime but the white flag has gone up. Would love Nkounkou to do something, the lad has been criminally overlooked. OK, maybe he isn't quite EPL standard yet, but his potential is obvious and substandard players have been given multiple opportunities to be shit on the pitch all season.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:41:55
I think Iwobi suits the kit!
David Thomas
61 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:43:04
Mark 55, the sad thing is I’m pretty sure the likes of Kevin and Darren would like him in the team next season.
Kevin Molloy
62 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:44:51
at most clubs after this dreadful collapse, Carlo would be on his way. its not just the lack of points, the football has been the worst consistently over the course of a season since Mike Walker. if I was Moshiri, I can either pay up his contract £20m, or give him £50m to solve it. I know what I'd do, send him on his way.
Phil Wood
63 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:45:55
Agreed Kevin 59. Criminal lack of opportunity for Nkounkou.
King could not have done any worse than a lot of "performers" this season but only given bit parts in a Team that struggles to score.
Gavin Johnson
64 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:46:24
Kevin, he'll need double £50m to get us anywhere around the top 4
Kevin Dyer
65 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:48:28
Another unchanged header from 5'8 Aguero ffs. Show some pride.

I don't have much sympathy for most of the players out there today. You get what you deserve and there's ways even of losing. This is the mentality that saw us lose passively to the Liverpool u23 team last year. A team like City, play like this and expect them to have fun at your expense.

Thomas Richards
66 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:50:00
Some very poor quality players in our squad.
Keane, Davies, Holgate, will never play for a top 4 team.
Iwobi, Bernard etcetc all not capable of playing for a team in CL.
Massive clear out required over next two seasons.
Jerome Shields
67 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:52:51
Going to take some sorting out. There are players at Everton who are not bothered and are below average. It's going to be another season of getting into Europe, more likely scrapping it. Carlo on the last half of this season will be doing well to rectify the slide for the start of next season.

Also would not be surprised if Chelsea won the Champions League. Though it would make little difference to Everton.

Neil Lawson
68 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:53:36
Men against toddlers.
Pick the bones out of that horror show Mr A.
Darren Hind
69 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:57:03
Deserved humilation for a cowardly, cowardly manager
Phil Rodgers
70 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:58:27
What a complete shambles. Any positives from this season have been completely wiped out by absolute spineless display after spineless display. Thank God it's over for a few months.
Thomas Richards
71 Posted 23/05/2021 at 17:59:13
Youve got a cob on coz you lost an Ayrton😁
Kieran Kinsella
72 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:00:26
Academy hasn’t produced a good player since Stubbs left but these “young” twenty somethings are apparently the answer. Meanwhile Walsh and Brands assembled an expensive squad of subbuteo players but obviously the manager is solely to blame.
David Thomas
73 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:00:41
Absolute crap performance. Manager seems clueless and the players are just bang average at best. The worst of them all has got to be Holgate though. He’s absolutely fuckin awful.
Michael Lynch
74 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:00:59
Abysmal performance from one of the worst Everton teams I’ve ever seen in over 50 years of following this club. Shameful stuff, embarrassing and we are flattered by a tenth place finish. All that money spent, all those internationals, one of the most decorated coaches in the history of the game and they have served up total shit game after game.

Talk about an underperformance. And how shit must our kids be if not one of them can break into this pathetic team
Ernie Baywood
75 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:01:08
Celebrating the league and with a big match coming up... we're the perfect opponent.

Hard to see where we improve too. There are only about 3 or 4 players you'd be bothered about having next year. The rest all interchangeable with other dross.

Pat Kelly
76 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:01:40
Can't think of anything positive Ancelotti has contributed in 20 months. We're back at square 1. Probably worse than when he took over.
Danny O’Neill
77 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:01:53
Too raw. I'll come back later or even tomorrow.

Bottled it. But then we've bottled it on too many occasions in this season of missed opportunity. We finish where we deserve to be.

Many of these players are simply not good enough and I wonder if some of them have already been told that.

Don Alexander
78 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:02:07
Jordan our MoTM to me. Says it all.
Kevin Prytherch
79 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:03:24
David 61 - the sad thing is that some people would be happy if we stuck with Keane and Sigurdsson who will take us nowhere.

Holgate, unsurprisingly, was better at centre back, while Godfrey struggled against Sterling. Nevertheless, I still think that Godfrey and Holgate should be our long term vision at centre back.

I see Davies was slated on the live forum, but Sigurdsson, Allan and Doucoure were equally poor if not worse.

When players play poorly I expect them to get slated for it, but some players get it in the neck more than others for equally poor performances.

Equally, if this was Koeman, Allardyce, Martinez or Silva we would be calling for the sack. I don’t recall ever seeing and Everton team regress so much in one season.

Take the first 5 games away and it reads
Played 33, won 13, drew 7, lost 13, scored 33, conceded 41. Pitiful.

Kevin Prytherch
80 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:03:27
David 61 - the sad thing is that some people would be happy if we stuck with Keane and Sigurdsson who will take us nowhere.

Holgate, unsurprisingly, was better at centre back, while Godfrey struggled against Sterling. Nevertheless, I still think that Godfrey and Holgate should be our long-term vision at centre-back.

I see Davies was slated on the live forum, but Sigurdsson, Allan and Doucouré were equally poor if not worse.

When players play poorly, I expect them to get slated for it, but some players get it in the neck more than others for equally poor performances.

Equally, if this was Koeman, Allardyce, Martinez or Silva, we would be calling for the sack. I don't recall ever seeing an Everton team regress so much in one season.

Take the first 5 games away and it reads
Played 33, won 13, drew 7, lost 13, scored 33, conceded 41. Pitiful.

Kieran Kinsella
81 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:03:37

If we bring in the Moyes/Unsie dream team and keep diamonds like Davies and Gordon, all will be well. Carlo instructs the players to pass to the opposition, so it's a simple fix.

Derek Moore
82 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:03:53
Once again, we're left with more questions than answers and an underwhelming season. New shirt, same shit.

Thank god for Pickford who prevented a perhaps record-breaking disaster.

Utterly mind-blowing how far off the pace we ended up finishing, even more astonishing considering our start.

I am glad I don't have to watch this lot for a while, and I'm not trying to be offensive to those who will genuinely miss football. This was going in one direction and I've seen enough. Let's hope this sparks the real investment needed to start bridging the gap.

Thomas Richards
83 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:04:02

Steady on your picking on the young lads here.

They may well be hopeless but they are young. One of them is a local lad as well by the way. Pack it in.

Denis Hignett
84 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:04:21
Apart from taking the penalty, what did Sigurdsson do today?

Richarlison not happy being substituted again while Calvert-Lewin stayed on. I have some sympathy.

Thank god the season is over.

Tom Bowers
85 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:05:16
Never expected to win but thought at least they would show some guts.

However, a fitting finale to a woeful season and they proved they are a long way off being worthy of any Euro place.

Oddly enough the only thing in the season worth remembering is the win over Liverpool. Sad, isn't it?

Ajay Gopal
86 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:05:33
If the penalty had gone it at 2-0, it might have been different, but not to be.

Before the game, I wanted to post that I hope that it is not an embarrassing thrashing by Man City, but did not post it as I am superstitious! But that's what it turned out to be.

Carlo tried to be adventurous, and for about 10 minutes in the 1st half, we looked pretty good. But he is right, we just don't have the players to play that open flowing football.

So, we finish 10th, right in the middle of 'mid-table' mediocrity. Very disappointing after a promising 1st half of the season. This is a tough, tough league, but there is always hope if you get your summer acquisitions right.

Look at Aston Villa - they survived on the last day of the last season, made some very shrewd purchases and with Grealish they look like a Top 6 side.

Big summer ahead, take care guys, there will be better days.

Alan J Thompson
87 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:06:09
Thank heavens it's over! Couldn't have finished any worse. I'm probably wrong but I don't remember them passing backwards until leading 4-0.

I'd have said that mediocrity rides again except, as difficult as it is to grasp, we were actually playing for something until the end – even if it was just the worst of the best of the not quite runners-up.

Danny O’Neill
88 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:06:15
All I would add, and I know i'ts not probably the best time, but worthy Champions and Kevin de Bruyne is arguably the best player around right now.
Simon Dalzell
89 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:06:21
We are the perfect club to play for a team who needs a stroll prior to a big game, or an end-of-season party. Any team in desperate need of a win or any forward that hasn't scored for ages.

Fodder indeed. Spineless again. A complete laughing stock and truly embarrassing for the wonderful fans all over the world. Shame on you all.

Jerome Shields
90 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:06:35
Rather than a streak of red on the shirts, a streak of yellow would be more appropriate in a lot of cases.
Phil Wood
92 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:07:05
Pickford can be the only candidate today and many of our single goal wins this season have had him to thank for.

My Player of the Season by a mile.

Kieran Kinsella
93 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:07:05
Don & Derek,

Pickford kept it in single figures.

Paul Birmingham
94 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:07:41
This resonated with me for a similar occasion when Arsenal took Everton to the cleaners on the last day of the 1998, season, and were Champions.

What can you say, but time to rebuild and the disappointment from this season, is massive, the worst I've felt for many campaigns with Everton. To be in such a good position at the start of the year and dissolve so feebly, is hard to take.

To get such a good away haul of victories and fail consistently at home has been Everton's demise. Today, City could have had 14, and sadly for me, Everton played like a Championship team.

These defeats are not flukes and Agüero could have had 4 or 5 and he was on less than 25 minutes. Pickford kept us in it and no craft and no guile.

It will be interesting to see who's staying and who's going this pre-season.

So mid table and the table doesn't lie. What next, but let's hope next season is better.

So a flat goal difference of zero... That's one to beat next season.

Time for a Reggie Perrin, with the spawns of Old Nick, blowing off as usual..

Consistent, yes consistently and factually not very good for decades, but let's hope for the best preseason ever, as Everton need it.

Jim Bennings
95 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:08:33
Four words.

"Shite players, weak club"

Pretty much all that needs saying.

Gavin Johnson
96 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:13:30
I knocked it off at 4-0. It was utterly embarrassing. I don't care if City are the best team in the world. That was a pitiful performance.

So much dead wood has been assembled by the 3 previous managers. Carlo is going to need £100m this summer to put it right.

Danny O’Neill
97 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:13:46
Sorry, I know I said I'd come back later. But someone please tell me now that we don't need an improvement in the centre-back department to complement Godfrey's potential. The lad was trying his best to compensate for Keane and trying to cover for Holgate at right-back.

I've been saying it for months and getting told off for it, but we need it and need experience alongside Ben.

Let's all give each other a bit of slack tonight. Whatever side of the fence we're on, we're hurting.

Chris Gordon
98 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:15:09
It's quite obvious that many of the current squad are not mentally strong enough, nor are they good enough to progress the club. A fire sale is needed I'm afraid.
Kieran Kinsella
99 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:15:25

You're right. Especially if we try to play out from back.

Anthony Murphy
100 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:16:16
Normal service resumed
Thomas Richards
101 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:16:17
Keane and Holgate are useless, Danny. Mina is not much better.

You know how long I have been pushing for a centre-half to play with Godfrey, mate.

Mick O'Malley
102 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:16:33
Pickford is probably the only player among that gang of serial shit bags that's hurting after that shit show.

Pat @76, I agree.

Ian Bennett
103 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:16:35
Closing down sales, open to offers...
David Thomas
104 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:16:39
Kevin @81, I certainly wouldn't be happy sticking with the two you mention as I think there both crap. The squad is full of bang-average players at best.

However, whilst Gylfi for example is a has-been, Holgate has never been anything but shite except for a few months at the end of one season when he was pretty good.

However, certain people on here talk as if he had a spell like he was Bobby Moore. If Holgate is the future in your opinion in our defence, then we obviously want very different things for this club.

Anthony A Hughes
105 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:17:12
So get rid of Carlo and bring in Merlin who couldn't get a performance out of absolute dross like Holgate, Davies, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Bernard, Allan, Doucouré.

Holgate a long-term solution at centre-back? Jesus Christ!

Tom Bowers
106 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:17:29
Finishing 10th was about right for this mid-table team with more than a few sub-standard players.

They got 59 points out of a possible 120, less than half and a –1 goal difference. Awful by any yardstick after winning the first four games.

Just watching them in most games this season made me squirm as they always seemed vulnerable when the opposition had possession and these last three games really showed them up.

They do not play as a unit and are all over the place. I would have thought many teams licked their lips when coming up against Everton and I can understand the frustration of the Wolves manager when they lost earlier in the week after dominating the game.

Assuming Ancellotti does get a few new players, one hopes that a big improvement shows immediately because he, like his failed predecessors, will be shown the door.

Anthony Jones
107 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:17:58
The club chose the wrong mercenaries.

Man City chose the right ones.

One day we might choose better.

Kieran Kinsella
108 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:19:27

Godfrey also.

Tony Twist
109 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:20:12
I think the writing is on the wall now for Carlo, to be honest. I was so pleased we got him rather than Moyes. I got it so wrong and ignored the behind-the-scenes talk and just looked at his record. He is clueless.

You can't buy a totally new team of superstar footballers, Carlo, to hide your inadequacies.

Congrats to David Moyes, a job well done. No bad-mouthing blue Bill this time, he wanted Moyes back.

Michael Kenrick
110 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:20:24
Danny, so no slack from me beause you dug this particular hole all on your lonesome.

Apart from the zombie football, one thing I've found supremely annoying is to read your mantra repeatedly on a weekly basis it seems, about you withholding judgement of the manager until the end of the season.

Well, we're there now, so I'll be looking keenly for an original dissertation from you providing that promised judgement, in which you don't repeat anything you've said already in your countless myriad of posts on here before the expiry of your self-imposed deadline.

Jamie Crowley
111 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:20:25
Best Match Day title yet from Kenrick.

Had to actually look up the word 'ebullient':

1. cheerful and full of energy.
"she sounded ebullient and happy"

2. Archaic (of liquid or matter) boiling or agitated as if boiling.

So Man City are definition 1, and our fanbase is the archaic secondary definition.

Clearly. I'm personally boiling over. Anyone else?

James Head
112 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:20:32
Mike Walker just tweeted that Ancelotti should be sacked.
Richard Nelson
113 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:20:44
Cut your losses, Mr Moshiri, nobody will blame you if you do!

And on your way out, tell Signor Ancelotti, the modern game at the top level has moved on a bit in the last few years...

Even if you can play, you have to be an athlete as well... Mason Holgate being the perfect example!

Dale Self
114 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:21:08
My theory is Carlo let it go a bit shit to improve his hand going forward. He’s not admitting it publicly but he is a magician.
Thomas Richards
115 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:22:02

I will bet you as much as you want Ancelotti will lead the team in the first game next season.

Jason Wilkinson
116 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:22:52
Ancelotti has not got the answers, I'm afraid. It's easy to blame players but the tactics in a lot of games this season have been utter shite. We attack in ones and twos. Our midfield play is virtually non-existent.

Our game plan is to get Digne down the left to cross to Calvert-Lewin. That's it!!! We have no other threat going forwards.

Marcel Brands should be looking for new coaches to breathe some life into our gameplan.

Mike Keating
117 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:23:20
I hope James is nicely tucked up in his king-size bed and dreaming of the Copa America.
Paul A Smith
118 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:23:32
Holgate's attempt to stop Agüeros first was possibly the worst show of defence all season. We are desperate for a real centre-half we can rely on.

And a central-midfielder, winger and real striker.

Mick O'Malley
119 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:24:58
Forgot Godfrey, Kieran, I'm angry and fed up with this monotonous shite we get served up, season after season. Godfrey is one of the few bright spots, along with Pickford coming back to form.
Ian Edwards
120 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:25:20
Well that was a damp squib. We went into the game with a chance of European qualification and didn't lay a glove on a team with one eye on a Champions League Final.

We finish in mid table after being 2nd on Boxing day.

A massive rebuild is needed next season and managed by someone with a spine and a pair of bollocks.

Finally, it's been a difficult 12 months for everyone due to Covid and I wish every poster on ToffeeWeb a fantastic Summer. Roll on August with the hope for better things.



Kieran Kinsella
121 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:25:23

James is probably happy to miss out on Europe. A few less sick notes to write.

Danny O’Neill
122 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:25:30
No need for that, Michael, but fair point in I said I would hold judgement until the end of the season. Just letting the emotion die down so I can give rational judgement if that's okay.

I'll give my opinion on my club, just as I have done all my supporting life. Which is all my 49 year life thats has seen many ups and downs on both ends of the spectrum.

Barry Rathbone
123 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:26:27
Last time we surrendered to the Champions so abysmally was Leicester and Martinez got the boot. Lucky City had the Champions League Final on the horizon – imagine if they'd got into top gear.

Message to Carlo: If, as you have stated, you don't think this outfit needs revolution, keep your suitcases packed and in the hallway and listen out for the taxi.

You won't see Xmas with that level of delusion./p>

George McKane
124 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:26:38
I have made my thoughts clear about how much I love "going to the game" and as the saying goes in The Dark House - - and I am sure in many other pubs -"yea love going the game pity about the football".
So for all the talk, the chat, the talking up of "the family club" - - nothing has changed in the least. Indeed I am sure many will say its getting worse and I am in no mood to argue.
Money - - the desire for it - - and greed - - lead in my opinion to poor personal choices - - arrogance in the face of "people" -- "money doesn't talk it fucking swears" - - I dropped out of the money game 40 years ago and I have had serious financial problems but I have been happy doing what I do and always tried my best to improve and move forward and to care for the young people in Yellow House without hurting others and sacrificing people decisions for money.
This is a club full of new money and therefore full of mercenary lazy crabs who make me feel ill watching them and listening to them.
Mr.Ancelotti if you love not being bothered when you are walking on Crosby Beach then why do you seem to be throwing that away - -if you do love it - - show some spirit, some fight, some reasoning, some passion - - some decisiveness - - the WHOLE set up needs cleaning up - -everything - -including you Mr. Ancelotti. I do not want to see new Mnagers every year but I fully expect you and the players to show some respect to me and my fellow Blues by at least showing some passion for OUR Club. The Season has ended - -yet again - - on a disgrace - - and you, Moshire, Kenwright and the several of the players are part of the disgrace. Shame on YOU ALL. You have broken my spirit. I will renew my Season Ticket because I love Everton - - the fans and our history - - BUT I DO NOT LOVE YOU AND MOST OF THIS INSIPID GANG OF PHONEYS. Get a grip you dreadful woeful unimaginative zombie money grabbers or get out.
Kieran Kinsella
125 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:28:23

Back to the movie, our team today resembled the lice ridden East European POWs that showed up at Michael Caine’s training camp

Kieran Kinsella
126 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:30:00

I take it your good lady is in a good mood at least after Villa

Danny O’Neill
127 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:30:17
Ian, yes rebuild needed. We'll disagree on the manager but on the squad I totally agree.
George Cumiskey
128 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:31:31
You don't get time in the premiership as a manager unless it looks like you're taking the team forward and I'm afraid Carlo isn't doing that !
Danny O’Neill
129 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:32:07
Possibly Kieran but I'm sat under a dark cloud so haven't discussed. I'm with the dogs and they're looking at me with concern.
Dave Williams
130 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:32:47
What an awful anti climax of a season after such a bright start up til Christmas.
The players haven’t changed since Carlo arrived- still gutless in the main and going through the motions.It is not surprising that he has not managed to improve them.
The bright spots are the emergence of DCL as a top striker and he must and will sharpen up even more. Godfrey will be a top player for us and Pickford has sorted himself out.
The most disappointing are Richi, Digne( he has gone off the boil without Richi on his touch line), Holgate( what on Earth has happened to him), the largely anonymous Siggy and the totally self centred James who doesn’t seem interested in the team, the club or anyone bar himself- I would show him the door.
The manager has made some very strange selections- why persevere with Gomes, Siggy,Iwobi, Bernard and even Delph for heavens sake? Why not give Nkounkou a run in the last half hour of a game and why have a tactic of a big hoof up field from kick off which never gives us possession? Why implement a game plan which is based around square or backwards passing with no running off the ball?
The questions are many and both players and manager have performed considerably below what we are entitled to expect.
So we move on to the transfer window again. Please no players more than 26 years old, new signings must be strong and quick with a real determination to win.
As ever I live in hope- please deliver Carlo!!
Ken Kneale
131 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:33:13
Jim 95 - you missed some words out - add in

"delusional out of touch manager" and you a nearer the mark.

Jason Li
132 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:33:28
This year we finished 8 points or so off Champions League, so not in anyway a terrible effort over 38 games.

Yes we got smashed but so do many teams against the best team in the league and currently best two in the C.L. Remember the Watford F.A. Cup Final? I think Pep said they are playing for their places in the final because for the first 60 minutes City were playing their normal game, no foot off the pedal.

Here's a debatable one, Iwobi played better than most when he drifted in the middle. Yep, I know, I kept checking myself but he was half decent on the ball in the middle and threaded a couple in to good positions.

George McKane
133 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:34:07
Danny stay cool man - - you are a decent good man - - your opinion is valid - - as are all TWers. Take care man.
Anthony A Hughes
134 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:34:26
So for those calling for Carlo's head who would they like to come in and shape a team out of this bunch of garbage?
Gary Willock
135 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:34:34
I’m desperately looking for reasons to be positive, and the only one I can come up with is that this shits over for 10 weeks and we’re likely to buy again in the summer.

I don’t, for a single second, believe Carlo is not good enough. However, I’m becoming increasingly concerned that he just sees us as 1) a final payday and 2) an apprenticeship vehicle for his boy.

Playing Holgate next to Keane again is criminal. Subs are uninspired. Kids on the bench for numbers only, with no intention to use them other than the bizarre “fuck you” to Richie at the end.

What we can’t do is give him an open cheque to sign another 4-5 “Allans and James’”. Both are good players, but not physical enough for this premier league, and with a squad depth this low.

Not sure what the answer is…..but there is major work needed on the player front. Hopefully the Simms/Gordon’s/Branthwaites can come back in to replace the Holgates/Bernards/Kings…..but we need players who are going to displace the Keanes/Allans/Siggys if we’re going to genuinely compete.

Ian Riley
136 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:34:37
The Man city team are real quality manage by a top management team. Today our flaws of the season were exposed by quality. We are just a mid table club. I'm happy not to be relegated and we had a couple of cup runs. Let's be realistic, we had a look at top four but the cream rises to the top eventually.

If no one thinks Carlo is responsible does not know business. The management team are costing probably close to a million a month. This squad are mid table with a league two manager. I'm bored and tired of average. Even Liverpool showed heart and desire to get into the top four. Everton were 4th in the league for away performances. Just more desire and hard work top 4 was a possibility against teams with less quality but had more desire to win.

The management team needs to decide if they can take Everton fc forward? I see no positives this season and the desire of the players in some games has been pitiful. Again and again we say "big summer for the club"! That's what keeps us supporting this great club!

Mick O'Malley
137 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:34:38
George @124 I’m feeling you’re pain but we’ll all be back for more next season, it’s a continuous loop of mediocrity and underachievement
Paul Birmingham
138 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:35:07
Ian, ditto, things will, must get better.
Daniel A Johnson
139 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:35:12
Ancelotti is a coward. If Mourinho is past it then Ancelotti is 6 ft under.

Negative, negative, negative. Shithouse football HOME and AWAY.

He has zero ambition, zero motivation he's like a hollywood star phoning it in for a paycheck in a crap film.

Any criticism will no doubt be deflected with its the same crap players excuse, yeah but he's being paid one of the biggest managerial salaries in world football to get these players fit, motivated and giving a shit.

He's failed spectacularly in every area this season.

10th behind Spurs and Arsenal who have had diabolical seasons.

All Hail Carlo Magnifico!!!!!!!!

Peter Gorman
140 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:35:48
My son is 3 months old and I swear that he will never hear the word Everton from me. I want more for the lad.
Kieran Kinsella
141 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:37:01

Maybe Tony Hart can morph something out of it?

James Head
142 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:37:25
Systemic failure throughout the Club at every level, from the board through all team age levels at Finch Farm, complacency, indifference and just pure astonishment that they are getting away with it.
The fitness levels of the first team squad are atrocious as is their total lack of ability to master the very basics of football at any level. The inability to pass and move is inexplicable as is the lack of cohesion, motivation, leadership and any semblance of tactics or even pride.
As poor as the players are this still points to poor coaching and team management.
I have seen every team since 1970 but have never felt so much animosity towards players who represent My football Club.
Minik Hansen
143 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:38:39
I’m speechless about this last game, and it’s not because I’m alone in my living room. I suppose the excitement to support this club will slowly build up again, right now I’m numb until I see either an outgoing or an incoming player, and there’s still some time for that happening. Enjoy yourselves blues from the break, as it stands it’s worth it anyways. Thanks for great comments throughout the season, it kept my ideas supported and gotany new ones from many of you. Good summer everyone. Much love. Godspeed to our transfer window this summer. Over and out from Greenland.
Daniel A Johnson
144 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:38:53
I'm glad the fans are back next season we need to light a fire under the whole club next season.
Danny O’Neill
145 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:40:36
Thanks George. Great words as always.

Peter Gorman. Wash your mouth out. Your son has a birth right and it can't be reversed!!

Colin Glassar
146 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:40:46
That’s an insult to lice, Kieran.
Thomas Richards
147 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:41:54

Take no notice mate.
I value your opinion as I'm sure most on TW do.
One thing is absolutely certain in reading your posts.
You clearly have far more football knowledge than your detractors.

Pete Sexton
148 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:44:34
Clueless Carlo Taxi waiting for you at GP.
Mr Moshiri cut your losses and pay him off sooner rather than later, plan for 21/22 season NOW.
Do not trust the Italian ice cream van salesman to waste any more money.
The fans will voice their feelings once the poor run continues next season if nothing changes Act Now.
Will Mabon
149 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:46:15
Barry @ 24,

that photo is appallingly bad taste by James IMO, on more than one level. Social Media sure has its downsides.

Colin Glassar
150 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:47:55
We could go the Chelsea way and sack an unsuccessful manager every other season if you want but clubs, in our dire state, cannot afford the luxury of doing this.

We need, as many say, a total clear out from top to bottom starting with chairman Bill, scouts, academy heads, unsworth, most of the first team squad etc... it won’t happen but you can wish.

Mediocrity is our middle name.

Bill Fairfield
151 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:49:47
This lot would get Pep the sack, exposed for what they are, mentally weak with a bad attitude. Thank God the season's over. Pathetic football.
Peter Gorman
152 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:50:04
Danny - I waive the right for the sake of his mental health.
Michael Williams
153 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:51:29
Agreed we need a total clear-out, establish a culture that demands excellence in everything and a 21st century scouting, analytics and player-development programs.
Ray Smith
154 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:51:36
For all of you that knock Carlo.

Who, apart from Carlo has won anything?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Give Carlo at least one more season, then judge him?

How is our so called best player ‘fatigued', and allowed to travel home to play in the Copa America!

If and it's a big if, will the prima Donna turn up next season?

Totally disillusioned with a season that offered so much.

Big fix needed, but who would want to come too Goodison? Other than Carlo's aged has-beens?

Don't get me wrong, there are too many Carlo knockers who want him out. However, we won't attract another manager of his calibre. And sacking managers year after year (sometimes) twice is not the answer.

I refer you too my original point, “Who in our current squad has won anything?”

Anthony A Hughes
155 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:52:41
This shite squad is beyond Tony Hart's mercurial talent (if he was still alive).

I'll ask again, what wizard could perform miracles with this squad?

For the 'Carlo Out' brigade, who would you like?

Paul Birmingham
156 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:52:45
James @142, well said and that time span tells the story of our lives.

This preseason, as we always say, is massive. Mediocrity can't be accepted and failure in this manner is not acceptable.

Time for a proper ruthless preseason and some fortune spent in the transfer window.

And to hope for far better next season.

Michael Williams
157 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:53:18
Also, just saw John Stones receive another Premier League winner's medal. Maybe some day he'll be good enough to play for us.
Kunal Desai
158 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:53:32
The whole structure at this club needs demolishing from top to bottom. It's got mediocrity embedded and ingrained throughout.

Four or five first-teamers needed.

Be prepared to be disappointed this summer. Same old shit and you know the club will do minimal business to get by, like every summer. Repeat again next season for a mid-table finish.

The Moyes years were the best it'll ever get for Everton, I'm afraid.

Darren Hind
159 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:54:10
I wonder if Ian Edwards abusers will have the good grace to acknowledge that he was right all along?

There is a very clear difference between being negative and being right. Nothing wrong with his barometer.

Geoff Williams
160 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:54:17
Ancelotti has all the answers but unfortunately to the wrong questions. Over the past 8 months, he has gone from someone I respected for his achievements in football, to someone I consider in the same bracket as Allardyce.

He has proved to be out of his depth in the murky waters of the Premier League.

Ian Edwards
161 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:56:06
In the second half of the season, we have won just one more league game than Sheffield United.
Anthony Murphy
162 Posted 23/05/2021 at 18:56:34
Got to wonder if Ancelotti has the required fire in his belly to turn this around. I'm not saying that based just on today, but he's not going to turn us into top-end-of-the-table contenders without huge investment and, even then, can we attract the players he wants given where we are?

I'm going to hold fire and see what the summer brings, but my concern in all of this is whether Carlo can really be arsed???

I really don't buy all that ‘he gets us' crap. I acknowledge he's a gentleman and can see how he's a good ambassador for us, but that's peripheral for me and Joe Royle can do all that if that is the criteria.

Robert Tressell
163 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:00:04
Paul and others, the trouble is, we simply don't have enough money to overhaul the mediocrity.

Chelsea can be ruthless because they had a £1bn squad and spent £200m to improve it. We have a deteriorating squad worth half that and a very modest transfer budget.

With a couple of desperately needed wide / forward players we will be better but let's not kid ourselves – we're a very mid-table squad in a very competitive league.

Only about £250m (+) net spend on transfers will make a difference in the very short term. Even then, we'd still be struggling to finish 4th. Because the big boys are way more than £250m ahead already and will also spend to improve.

Oliver Molloy
164 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:01:57
I knew we would lose, but once again, Everton rub it in – a fucking disgraceful performance from a bunch of mercenaries and I include the manager. Not acceptable... but we accept it.

Carlo Ancelotti is under pressure after this performance. I would think he will have 10 to 12 games next season to show he is the man, I am starting to doubt if he is, to be honest. We need a minimum of five players that will make a difference.

Because of the money they are on, it will not be easy but I would have the "For Sale" signn up and stuck on Gomes, Bernard, Iwobi, Holgate, Siggursson, Mina.

The club need a top class centre-half, pacy right-back, a creative midfielder, pacy winger and a striker that can score with his fucking feet.

If Man Utd are willing to give us £80 million or anything close to that for Calvert-Lewin, I would fucking sell him also (providing we get the replacement).

I don't want any more fucking journeymen mercenaries turning up at Everton and not giving a fuck.

As far as Rodriquez's picture tweet goes, don't get me started. Fucking joke, hope he stays in Colombia.

I need to stop, I'm so angry.

Mike Hanlon
165 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:01:57
Not good enough – on the pitch or off it. Even the release of the new Away top has been a mess (wrong colour, wrong description). Sadly, like some of the squad (not all), it'll still be here next season.

Massive overhaul needed. More passion, positivity, pace and drive needed. Players who will put their bodies on the line to win. We do need a revolution rather than evolution. Onwards and upwards (I hope).

Jim Bennings
166 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:02:48
Dave @130,

I'd describe Calvert-Lewin more as "the emergence of a striker that bundles chances home" rather than a "top striker".

I'm not blaming the lad because he's just part of a shit team but he's just an above average player, the ball at his feet he's one of the most cumbersome players I've seen in the Premier League era leading our frontline.

We need strikers and attackers with touch and movement and preferably can actually shoot from outside the box now and then, when do any of our lot ever take a dig?

Ian Edwards
167 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:03:26
In the three seasons prior to Ancelotti's appointment, we had finished 7th, 8th and 8th.

Under Ancelotti, he's led us to 12th and 10th place finishes.

Kieran Kinsella
168 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:03:30

So we won 7 versus their 6 and among those we lost were two Man City defeats. Not great but not exactly the relegation form your Sheffield Utd mention implies.

Chris Leyland
170 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:04:51
I've been a defender of the manager but it's got harder and harder as each week passes. Yes, he's been let down by the players who are a bunch of slow, plodding, spineless cowards. Whether that be the old guard he inherited, lads who have come up through the ranks, or his signings, none are good enough – the only exceptions for me are Godfrey and Pickford.

How this club has spend nearly half a billion quid to end up with the squad we've got is beyond me. That's criminally neglectful.

Ancelloti has been taking his money but it seems that he can't motivate or organise this bunch. Yes, they aren't good enough to be challenging the top teams but they shouldn't be losing the number of home games they've lost this season's the opposition they've lost to.

Aside from Godfrey and Pickford's resurrection, the only bright spot for me was winning at that shite hole across the park but even that was dampened a little by the fact it was in an empty stadium.

What's the answer? We could change the manager but it won't make a blind bit of difference as this club is a rotting, stinking corpse that takes your hopes and dreams and smashes them repeatedly over the head with a claw hammer.

NSNO, my arse!

Rob Dolby
171 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:05:31
Danny @97,

We were playing Man City today. To compete, we would need a lot more than a new centre-back! They are the benchmark, how are we going to close that gap?

Looking at today's squad, whoever is the manager has a monumental task on their hands.

Next season will be Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool in the Top 4.

If Kane leaves Spurs, they will be in our mini-league along with Arsenal and Leicester City. We need reinforcements everywhere.

Gerard Pauls
172 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:06:49
Just heard the manager on the radio – he thought that we have had a good season – therein lies the true problem of our club.

Mediocrity is rampant throughout this once great club that I have supported for nearly 60 years. Mediocrity at board level with Boys Pen Bill and Denise Barrett-Baxendale appearing more interested in EitC.

I have no doubt, and have said it on numerous occasions, that Moshiri is only here for the glitter and vast money-making potential of the regeneration of the northern docks. He and Usmanov are out-and-out ruthless businessmen and are happy for Everton to finish mid-table as long as they retain Premier League status while the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is completed.

The elite manager that most of our fans laud over is being seen to be a busted flush and, like most of the vastly overpaid prima donnas, is only here to fatten his wallet. "That's unfair... an outrage" some will scream.

This manager has had all season to instill some basic belief, tactical nous and a style of play but the biggest failure and what hurts me most is the total lack of pride and the total apathy shown by the vast majority of the playing staff.

The body language of Ferguson sums it up for me, he tries to communicate his thoughts to the manager and is dismissed with total disdain on most occasions.

I have watched enough of my beloved blues over the years but Ican safely say the lack of pride, fight and personal responsibility is a disgrace... too many very mediocre players, including the manager, on vast gold-plated salaries doing very little to earn their corn.

Sorry for the rant, boys – at least we can have a few weeks of respite before the next season of purgatory is upon us... unless this club can drastically change its entire fabric from top to bottom in the next few weeks.

Danny O’Neill
173 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:07:00
Thomas, I'm no more knowledgeable than anyone, just give a view but thank you.

Peter, fair one but it's inevitable don't fight it!

Still feeling raw. The manager is not inexcusable and I will come back with a genuine footballing reflection on the season, Michael, once I calm down.

But as I lick my wounds, can I just say thank you to all of you here. Been great debate, discussion and disagreement with each and every one of you all season.

Clive Rogers
174 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:07:05
An embarrassment. We are a mixture of players not good enough, finished or average with a couple of decent ones.

Sigurdsson and Allan both had shockers today and are finished. Pickford and Godfrey are decent. Holgate, Davies, Iwobi and Bernard are not good enough. The rest are average at best.

Agüero showed our front two what strikers are all about with his movement and finishing. He is better on his own than our two together.

Anthony Jones
175 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:07:40
Paying Carlo a massive salary to lead a poor squad is just another poor judgement from Moshiri and his advisors.

Throwing money away on an almost spent superstar manager was in keeping with signing Sigurdsson, Delph, Iwobi, Bernard, and the rest.

Massive salaries and massively overrated by naive decision makers with too much money to spend.

Michael Stancis
176 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:07:47
Never been more happy for a season to be over in all my life. Another failure of a season. Another inexcusable performance and once again. A game and season that sums us up. A charity not a football club.

Gang of shithouses.

Thomas Richards
177 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:08:02
wonder if Ian Edwards abusers will have the good grace to acknowledge that he was right all along."

Wonder no more from my point of view.

Whilst not usually joining in the abuse of Ian.
He is as big a shit stirrer as your good self. ," wonder if Ian Edwards abusers will have the good grace to acknowledge that he was right all along."

Wonder no more from my point of view.

Whilst not usually joining in the abuse of Ian.
He is as big a shit stirrer as your good self. ,Turned off,,0,19:07:49,,,ok,23848,05/23/2021 19:07:49,,reader,,,no 1157618,40846,toffeeweb,23/05/2021,Barry Rathbone,,"As we're in "clutching at any straw" mode has there been a manager who has improved a club (let alone won stuff) after a first season taking them down the Premier League? I can't think of a single one.

If everyone else is equally stumped, surely the odds are too high to continue with the present management. The decision has to be pay the incumbents off on Monday to save wasting millions in the summer on more aging, injured, not-up-to-it merchants.

It is the only rational decision when looking at facts rather than CVs.

Kieran Kinsella
178 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:08:07

In the two seasons prior to Carlo we had 58 points and 54. So less than the 59 we just got.

Alan J Thompson
179 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:08:17
I think some on here get carried away with Godfrey's pace. Yeah, he's quick but his positioning defensively leaves a lot to be desired. I love the way he can at times move upfield with the ball, one of the City players' forte, but as a defende,r a little more is required of him not least fitting in with his fellow defenders, being part of a unit, as others must be with him.

Similarly, the strikers must convert more often when in a 1-on-1 against a keeper. And James is a must whenever he is fit but we have to find midfielders like City's who find space, move into space with the ball, and get forward in numbers.

Look again at today's game and see how many players City got forward when attacking and then look at how many times we had just the two and Digne wide and none of them making the opposition's defence think more than their own teammates.

As for the manager; whether you think he's up to it or not, and I think he is, we can't continue on a merry-go-round and wonder why we sign so many players of differing styles who don't fit any particular system and certainly not that of the current incumbent, whoever he may be.

However, there must be signs of improvement in all facets, not just League position and/or financially, or we will be accepting mediocrity.

Tony Abrahams
183 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:12:02
Good shout, Michael @157, the anger shown to Stones for telling everyone to calm down, thankfully never affected him. He just moved on to a different level of football and left the anger behind.
Julian Exshaw
184 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:13:36
Another season of being an Evertonian slips by. A year of early confidence, then fleeting hope, buoyed by impressive mid-term away performances, alas to end in abject despair once again.

I have no idea if Carlo is still the man to turn this ship around; I have no idea if his engines are powerful enough. A comparison with last season's results compared to this season's wouldn't appear to point to progress of any kind.

A huge summer ahead, a clear-out of Titanic proportions is needed. Carlo, our Michelin chef, needs new ingredients, new recipes and more modern equipment at his disposal pretty fast or another year of stale servings awaits. Andiamo!!

Jamie Evans
186 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:14:02
Disappointing end and major summer surgery needed on the squad.

One obvious area is a need for more goal threat. We only scored 47 goals of which Calvert-Lewin scored 16. So the rest of our entire squad only scored 31 goals, abysmal.

Richarlison was at least 10 short of what he should be scoring; after that, our midfield is very blunt. Zero threat and nothing to worry other teams from Iwobi, Doucouré, Gomes, Davies, Allan etc.

Whilst Sigurdsson does weigh in with goals, his game isn't suited to getting beyond the striker. That is what we need, midfield runners who can score.

Danny O’Neill
187 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:15:05
Oh absolutely Rob Dolby. We need a wide player, creative midfielder and right-back replacement. Not the priority? Said that myself but it does gloss over what for me is a glaring problem in central-defence if we ignore it, regardless of who we buy and put in front of them.
Brian Harrison
188 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:16:42
I think today just highlighted the massive gulf in class between Man City and our team. Their movement and passing is a joy to watch, not forgetting that they all have a great first touch. They are an absolute pleasure to watch and although Guardiola has been given unlimited amounts of money, you can see the work he puts in on the training ground.

Anybody who thinks 2 or 3 players will put us right, then they'd better think again. If we do only bring in 2 or 3 players, then I can see us again not getting into the top half of the Premier League.

I am sure Moshiri must be gutted given the amount he has ploughed into the club, only to see us going backwards. I am sure Carlo will be given this summer and up to Christmas to improve this team, but there has to be a huge turnaround both in performance and position; otherwise, the merry-go-round of us looking for another manager will start again.

Next season, it looks like we will all be allowed back inside Goodison, but put in many more performances like we have at home this season and the fans will soon let Carlo and Moshiri know we want more than we have seen this year at Goodison.

Brian Williams
189 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:19:07
It was a disgraceful performance for sure. Individual errors for at least two of the goals. Doucouré passing to a City player around the half-way line and Davies gifting the ball to a City player not far outside our box. I can't remember the other goals as I've tried to wipe them from memory.

Who's to blame? Well, in my view, it's a collective blame. Ancelotti has made mistakes without a doubt. Lots of players have made individual mistakes which no amount of tactical nous would eradicate.

But what pisses me off the most is the apparent lack of effort and spirit. You can have a shit game but try your very best and put maximum effort in but most of the players have at some point, IMO, just cruised along.

I'd rather have a complete reset this summer and start again with young, athletic, pacey players, and be prepared to accept that it could take some time. Watching the present incumbents play plodding, side-side-back football is soul-destroying.

Gary Neville called them out a few times today and I actually think he wants us to be and play better. You could hear the disbelief in his voice at the lack of effort and bravery on show today.

Thank fuck this season's over.

Mick O'Malley
190 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:19:50
Jim Bennings,

I agree about Calvert-Lewin, he's a clumsy finisher with his feet, great in the air, but we definitely need better.

I'm not having Carlo's Inzaghi comparisons, he seems to have streaks where he'll score then go about 8 without scoring. Since Christmas, his goal return has been minimal but he's not alone cos Richarlison has missed his fair share of chances.

And I'm not having Carlo's insistence on playing them in a pair, it just hasn't worked at all. I can't remember the last time they both scored in the same game.

Mind you, we hardly ever score more than one anyway.

Derek Taylor
191 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:20:18
Does anyone really believe we've had a good season and that any weaknesses will be remedied during the summer?

Kunal above has it about right although no more than four or five signings will only be enough to see a genuine challenge for Top 6 or Top 7.

What a pity our owners have so much spare cash, it matters not whether we finish 6th or 16th. And the manager is a nice old bloke.

Peter Mills
192 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:20:37
Twice this season have I seen one of my teams being utterly outclassed, losing 5-0 and fortunate to get away with the scoreline.

But Marine had an excuse when they were defeated by Spurs in the FA Cup. There were many divisions between the two clubs. And the Mariners tried their hearts out.

Everton, on the other hand, were simply pitiful today. Feeble. And the penalty was spineless.

What is it with us that, if a team needs a cosy 5-0 win, we will facilitate it? And if a sub comes on with half-an-hour to go needing to score 2 goals to break a record, we leave him in acres of space to do so? Are we corrupt, or just pathetic? It's got to be one or the other.

I'm in a fortunate position. My football next season is effectively free, I have turned 65 so my credits and refunds will pay for my season ticket for Goodison Park. I recently won £90 in the Marine monthly draw, so that will see me through the turnstiles there. I suspect I know where I will get better value for money.

Yet my heart lies with Everton. We have a great man in charge in Carlo. I am prepared to allow him the ups and downs of this season, purely on heart and hunch. But he needs to step up, pronto.

Paul Hewitt
193 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:21:10
I hope the Carlo haters come on and apologize when he gets it right. And he will.
Paul Birmingham
194 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:22:18
The Haunting of Everton FC – just thinking about a book, as it would be easy to write, as the last 50 years testify.

Seriously, the professionalism and attitude and mentality has to change. Today for me, Everton looked like a Championship team. How many teams recycle the ball up the half way line and pass across and back, like Everton do?

The squad is limited as it is but guts and desire and team work need a massive overhaul.

Next season: new Captain – Godfrey, and get the fight and guts to win at all costs.

It's gnawing me to think this season we've had the upper hand and initiative on Liverpool but, since beating them at our old ground, they've gone on from strength to strength and Everton have timidly barely turned up in all bar a few of them games.

That's the disappointment but it's not as if it's not happened before. Genuinely this has got to be the time for the club to become professional and focused at all levels.

It's staggering when you look at Everton's fixtures and it's like they've never had such a good chance to make good in the Premier League and they made a great job of spewing it.

What next, let's see what the summer brings.

Pat Kelly
195 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:22:58
That image of Rodriguez posing on the jet to Colombia sums up what is wrong with Ancelotti.

He has been praising Rodriguez's commitment when we can all see he's just interested in his own image and collecting a massive wage while flouncing off whenever he wants. What message is that sending to the team?

Well, we saw that today. There will be no criticism of Rodriguez by Ancelotti. The golden boy who's milking the club like Ancelotti and his son. Moshiri was a soft touch and he's paying dearly for it.

Ray Robinson
196 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:23:00
I'm not yet swayed one way or another over Ancelotti but I do think that 59 points with this squad is more than we could have expected. It's so deficient in so many ways that I don't think any manager could do much better with it.

I'll dust myself down, renew my season ticket and hope for a radical overhaul in playing staff. Hope springs eternal! Now for a well-earned break over the Summer!

Danny O’Neill
197 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:23:14
I had that discussion earlier, Tony, with my brother. As a fanbase, we slated him as a young centre-back for daring to play football. He ignored it, moved on and has won titles.

He's 27, not yet at the age when you'll get the best out of a centre-back. I think he will get better.

Please don't do that with Ben Godfrey. He's young but has great potential. But he has a lot of learning to do and will make mistakes along the way. Like John Stones did.

Frank Crewe
200 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:26:47
Pickford - keep

Digne - keep
Godfrey - keep
Keane - keep
Mina - squad player or sell
Holgate - squad player or sell
Coleman - release

Allan - keep
Doucouré - keep
James - keep
Davies - squad player or sell
Gomes - squad player or sell
Delph - release
Bernard - release
Iwobi - squad player or sell
Richarlison - keep but must improve

Calvert-Lewin - keep
King - release

We need to improve our quality in every area of the park. A new right-back is a must, possibly two. A dominating centre-back. Far more craft and skill in midfield, a right-winger with pace and forward with more movement who can shoot.

Now I know I'm asking for the moon here but, if we don't get better players next season, will simply be a repeat of this one but with a crowd in booing them off.

Andrew Brookfield
201 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:27:38
When we needed a new manager, people were calling for some of the best managers in the world: "We should get Simone, Ancelloti, Tuschel" and I laughed to myself. Why or how would any of them come to Everton?

And then one did, possibly one of the greatest of all time, and I couldn't be more excited or optimistic.

When Allardyce came to Everton, I was excited. I thought, maybe this is his chance, he'll do all the things he wanted to do, and he'll play the football he'd dreamt of. He didn't, he was crap.

I now think, if the tactics and motivation we have seen this season had come from anyone but Carlo, we'd all be calling for his head. Silva and Martinez had a style, it was flawed, but you could see what we were trying to do. This Everton... I have no idea.

I'll continue to trust in Carlo, but this has probably been the most disappointing season I've experienced since Mike Walker.

John Boon
202 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:28:03
There is no Everton supporter today who is not accutely disappointed by the result and the way we played. Surely this is not the time to direct nasty barbs at fellow Evertonians who do not agree with your particular point of view.

We all support the same team and yes, some posters are more eloquent than others. Accepting criticism is part of the chance you must take to have the nerve to "offer" your opinion on ToffeeWeb. Supporting any team is a questionable life pursuit.

Football is something that can provide you with the heights of unbridled delight. But it and can also lead to the depths of depression and irrational anger directed at anything or anybody who might have the nerve to disagree with you after your team lose.

Immediately after the game is usually the time to vent or celebrate depending on the result. Over a lifetime, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Today, we lost 5-0 to the Premier League Champions. I also remember the last day of the season in 1951 when we lost 6-0 to the bottom of the league Sheffield Wednesday and were relegated from the old First Division. Even at that age, I was "shattered". However, I am still around and still supporting Everton. I am also peeved, annoyed, irate and "fed up" at losing. I am also just not surprised.

Having said that, today is a day to commiserate with fellow Evertonians. We have all suffered the same fate. Perhaps this is a time direct your ire at the players, the club, the manager and anything associated with Everton FC.

It is just not the time to direct anger at fellow idiots who support the same team. If it helps, just find any Liverpool supporter and kick him in the ankle and then hope you can run faster than him or her.

Remember, by about Tuesday or Wednesday, you can start planning for next season. We only need to bring in about 14 new players... See how easy it is to be positive.

Mick O'Malley
203 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:28:27
Pat @ 196 spot on.

A lot of our fans complain about the cozy old boys club at Finch Farm... yet Carlo's son is learning his trade on Moshiri's money.

Michael Boardman
204 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:29:35
I hope all the Carlo lovers will come on and admit they were wrong, when we agree he's "failed" (not sure what depths we need to get to for this to happen though).

To let James indulge himself by jetting off to Colombia while we still have a game – think about how we would gloat if Liverpool had a player that was "above" the club.

Talented thouugh he is, James couldn't care two hoots (or even one) for this club.

George McKane
205 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:31:34
Nobody on here needs to apologise or answer for their pro or anti Ancelotti comments - nor does anyone need to say “I told you so” or “you are right”. It's a Football Forum for opinions. The players you like, I may dislike – so what, who cares? We are all Blues, aren't we?

Right now, I guess we are all a bit in shock, pain, dismay, worry... time to care for each other. Those at the club seem to neither care nor worry about us, so let's give a bit of care to each other.

Mal van Schaick
206 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:31:56
The result doesn't tell us anything we don't know.

This squad of Everton players isn't up to Manchester City standard of players and, if the owner's ambitions are to be achieved, it is yet again a rebuild job, with nearly all of the midfield players being sold or released, and a desperate need for quality strikers being available.

Rob Dolby
207 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:32:02
Danny @188.

I only see the will to win in a handful of players and none of them are midfielders.

In a game that we needed to get something out of, I want to see Allan, Davies, Doucouré leaving one on the likes of De Bruyne, Rodri or Fernandinho and see their response with a big final coming up.

Gary Neville summed it up well saying our midfield can't play a tight passing game and that we should go longer sooner to our best assets up top.

You can't give good players time and space on the ball, nevermind the great players that Man City have.

I wouldn't mind us signing two Gana Gueye type players and a couple of Raphina types. We can't carry on having passive midfielders.

Thomas Richards
208 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:33:40
What's all this plums about "leaving one on the City players"?

For fuck's sake... Why?

James O'Connell
209 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:34:58
There were always question marks over our managerial appointments when the likes of Silva, Martinez, Koeman etc were installed; for me, that isn't the case with Ancelotti. He hasn't got it right yet but there is no doubting his pedigree. I think he deserves another transfer window.

The squad just has far too many poor signings in from previous regimes, players happy to take the money who have no emotional or professional investment. I'm not sure what manager could do better until they have moved on the players that need to be, or sacking another manager when clearly this hasn't worked the previous how many times now?

Lots of players on big wages taking the piss and happy to take no responsibility when most of it is their fault.

Tony Everan
210 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:36:23
Danny, more and more I am coming to the same conclusion that a central defender is needed. I think Mina has been our best centre-back this season; when he is out, we look more vulnerable. I think there will be some trading going on and we will have a new quality centre-back with recovery pace as well as the overdue new right-back.

It's hard to split the priorities, as we need that forward or winger... Bailey? Diaby? Name your man. Also that creative forward-thinking modern young hungry dynamic tenacious attacking midfielder with assist and goals – Buendia?

Marcel Brands has got his work cut out, but we will need those four first-team quality players in for pre-season if we are to stand any chance at all of progressing.

Failure to offload any combination of Bernard, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Tosun, and Iwobi will see us partially hamstrung for another season.

Danny O’Neill
211 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:36:25
John Boon, you've just had me smiling for the first time since full time. Thank you for that. The dogs thank you also.

Michael, I'd call myself a Carlo supporter just as much as I was a Howard Kendall one but that's a valid point. Shocking to see that image from a player I admire.

Brian Wilkinson
212 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:38:02
If anyone wants a good laugh, go read my post @20.

I take it all back. :-)

Michael Boardman
213 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:39:27
Rob #208,

My point exactly – we were here to hero worship and make sure Aguero got a 10-gun salute send-off. Bunch of sycophants the lot of them, and in tune with Carlo's, 'I blow on my coffee, I'm cool, so it's alright' boys club attitude.

Terry McLavey
214 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:40:05
Every season, I'm always glad it's over. Everton FC – when will you change this?

I'm 70. I have the feeling I won't ever see any success in my lifetime!

Thomas Richards
215 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:40:38
Tony 211.

I was told today, by someone I trust, that there is a decent transfer budget available but they need to get six players wages off the bill.

Bill Gall
216 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:43:27
Is it not time. Instead of changing managers, we stuck by one to bring us stability. Since 2013, over the next 6 years, we have had Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and now Ancelotti. Throw in interim managers Royle, Unsworth and Ferguson and it does not present a stable club.

Each manager buys his own players to play in his own style and, after being fired, the next manager gets rid of some of the deadwood who he doesn't want, and buys more, and the pattern continues.

There are two clubs who benefited from the pre-FFP rules: Man City, and Chelsea, who were able to splash the cash on world superstars. Chelsea were able to buy practically a new team before they came under the FFP rules while City managed to get away with 2 seasons.

Things have now changed in the FFP era and now you have to build up your teams carefully in buying and selling. There are a number of billionaires in the Premier League and we are lucky to have one who is willing to put some of his money into the club that is legal under FFP regulations.

We have to give a manager more time than we have previously to gain more stability. Starting with the Director of Football, he has to be able to work with the manager on the style of play he uses, the type of players he needs, and be able to sell the players not wanted. It is no use working with a different manager every other year, it is like starting all over again.

I am not saying Ancelotti may be the answer, but surely he should be given time to prove he is not. There is always a manager who has an outstanding season, then a poor season, but we need stability, not the flavour of the month.

This season with the Covid 19 pandemic with the lack of crowds it has produced some remarkable results but hopefully it will be over by next season. I believe stability is the better way for success... not just money.

Geoff Williams
217 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:43:39
We need a right back, a creative midfielder with an eye for a goal, a fast winger who can cross the ball and chip in with goals and a striker. I wrote the same last summer and we've had two transfer windows since then but nothing was done. I'll keep saying this . Ancelotti is the problem not the answer.
Eddie Dunn
218 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:45:36
No amount od spin can change the obvious facts that this team is not good enough and on the whole the season has not been "good".

I fully expected this result, though 2-0 or 3-0 would have been my prediction. Having seen only the second half, I saw nothing to give any positivity apart from Pickford in good form.

Worst of all, the new signings who, earlier in the season, looked to have strengthened our spine, look terrible. Doucouré is a non-footballer and Allan is possibly the slowest player on the books, on a par with Gareth Barry aged 39.

The manager has seemed distinterested, clueless and at a loss to change the downward spiral of shit. This team and coach has the look of a side in freefall. Unable to defend, unable to pass, and unlikely to score. The boss looks like he has lost interest. Why should we employ Carlo next season?

These guys will mostly still be with us and any incomers will be of a similar pedigree. I conclude that this club is not going to give any manager enough money to change it's future. Europa Conference League football is going to be our only realistic goal and, at present, Leeds and Villa look far more likely to get it than us.

I am convinced that Ancelotti is the fence for am organisation that is aiming to fund the new stadium whilst maintaining top flight football. As long as we stay in the middle of the table, they will be happy. Arsenal put big caps on spending on players and wages while they built the Emirates. We will have to get used to this shite.

The sad thing has been that even our wins (apart from Leicester away, Liverpool, and Spurs in the Cup) have been gleaned with us playing pig-ugly football. Look at Villa and Leeds. Both teams mid-table but both have played blinding football at times. Pace, skill, tempo and fight. Things we patently lack.

Danny O’Neill
219 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:45:37
I'm sure Tony Arbrahams would come in on that one Rob. That was arguably our best midfield 3 as it stands. But we had no width. So we couldn't stretch play when we had the ball. Everything was narrow which makes is easy for the defending team. Especially a good one.

But I'll go back to what I said earlier. In context, we were playing the champions and best team in Europe right now.

No excuse. We didn't fail on achieving Europe today. It was over the course of the season. Still hurting. Still talking to the dogs.

Mike Price
220 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:47:55
Ancelotti was a bad appointment and his contract makes him very expensive to get rid of...again! We’d have been much better off keeping Martinez, he’d have eventually sorted a defensive structure and we’d have entertainment.
Before people start screaming that we’d be relegated by now, he is managing the number 1 rated team in the world right now, a job he took after pocketing a cool 10 million payoff from the nice Mr Moshiri.
The clubs an embarrassment, from top to bottom.
Brian Williams
221 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:48:01
Brian I went back and read post 20.
What can I say mate?
Derek Moore
222 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:48:20
The really great Ancelotti teams never played the most expansive football in the world. They were in fact, more renowned for being defensively stout and well organized, clinical in front of goal and with the ability to withstand long periods of pressure without the ball.

At times this season - especially on the road but not today! - we have played in just such a manner. Not frequently enough lately, but often enough that I still think the manager has a lot to offer if given the resources.

If we can't really give the manager the resources then you have to ask why the owner appointed Ancelotti in the first place. Kenwright at least had the sense to find a manager on the rise even if he did end up having a self imposed ceiling.

Not cutting our coat to suit our cloth is literal insanity. You don't take your Vauxhall Vectra to the Rolls Royce service centre. Brands must stop setting fire to the owners money and get some sort of return upon it as a matter of urgency. Whether that is with a new playing group, a new manager, both or neither is what we must wait and see. But it must be surely obvious that the present path is untenable?

Michael Boardman
223 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:48:30
Does FFP apply any more? Hasn't that gone now that the two Spanish giants are skint, and Man City / Chelsea managed to overturn a ban? Plus Mosh is an accountant, who may or may not have some access to further funds. But of course we know what will happen as soon as we step out of line
Colin Glassar
224 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:49:37
Koulibaly, Aarons, Ings (he's finally convinced me), Hudson-Odoi, and two, two-footted midfield players. Six in.

Nine players out:


That shower should cover most of the incoming players.

Soren Moyer
225 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:51:03
Moshiri should do the following if he wants to bring back the glory days back to the GP:

-Sack the board including the chairman.
-Sack the DoF (not doing his job).
-Replace Unsworth (not producing any talented youngsters)
-Sack the coaching team, including Carlo Magnifico and Duncan Ferguson.
-Sell / get rid of most of the team, only Pickford and Godfrey are worth keeping.

A revolution is needed. Otherwise be prepared for more of the same (or even worse) season after season.

Mike Connolly
226 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:51:15
I'm taking a positive note. If it was not for a good start to the season we would be battling against relegation. And with this spineless lot we would have succeed and got relegated. Carlo big error was he did not look into the club deep enough. If he did he would of found out what bottlers we are and not risked his reputation. Like I have said in previous post, whoever is the manger, the players slip back into their default mode of shite. Look how we have played under the last few managers. its exactly the same as now. Like most of you we can all chill out for a couple of months and hopefully come back better
Roger Helm
227 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:51:41
Tenth is disappointing but Carlo isn’t going to be sacked so let’s hope for some impressive summer recruits.

I think more useful would be a new coaching set up to get rid of the old boys club and employ some proper coaches and get back to basics - the players are not untalented but for years they have looked slow, unfit and lacking basic passing and moving skills.

Steve Hili
228 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:54:11
The team isn't good enough. What we are desperate for are some leaders, someone with a bit of heart. I still think Carlo is the man for the job. (Having said that I thought that Malta would win the Eurovision last night, so, you know). Tenth is disappointing of course but we are not too far off the European teams. It is annoying because we threw it away ourselves. Give us a year and 12 new players and who knows where we'll be!
Kevin Prytherch
229 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:55:35
In other news, it’s nice to see the once ridiculed John Stones, Romelu Lukaku and Davy Klassen all pick up league winners medals!!!
Jamie Evans
230 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:55:40
Are any players contracts up? I though besides and Bernard are released now? Potentially Delphi too? Don’t tell me they all have another 12 months on their contracts?
Sean Kelly
231 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:56:07
Hi folks I’m sorry to say this is as good as it gets with this squad. It’s been said for a number of years some of our players are championship at best. The investment needed is huge but getting good professionals in is vital. This squad and previous ones have failed to turn up for many managers so it appears to me there is a bad culture at this club.
Bad management and the lack of ambition, hunger and desire at all levels has resulted in teams like Leeds Leicester and West Ham finishing ahead of us.
Where does the answer come from? New owners, new management, new players?
Maybe all three but with a new stadium to be financed I fear for this club.
Kieran Kinsella
232 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:56:29
Soren 226

I think Carlo needs more time but I’ll sacrifice him if you can get Moshiri to make all those other changes you suggest

Brian Wilkinson
233 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:56:32
Thank god a few of these contracts end this summer.

The rest for next year, I would pay their final year up, get the lot out, rebuild in the summer, spend big, so what if we go over the ffp, might get docked 9 points max, might get a 12 Month transfer ban, or 12 Month Euro ban, get a good lawyer in and argue the dirty dozen scenario.

Get top top players in this summer, pay over the odds if needed, as long as they are top quality, it is the only way we are going to even try bridging the gap.

No use having half this shite here, get rid now in the summer, start a complete rebuild, play the big boys at their own game, buy big, buy quality and flaunt the ffp.

Craig Walker
234 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:57:24
Reminds me of when Man City beat us 5-1 on the last day in 2003/2004. After the meek surrender to Bournemouth last season, I hoped it would be the last time I saw some of our players in our colours: most of them are still here, one season on.

We need a lot of new players who will give their all.

One thing is for sure, I’m not getting carried away if we win a few matches. This club continually disappoint and let us down. This season should have been different given the away form.

Glad it’s all over. Hoping for a good result today was asking for a miracle.

Roman Sidey
235 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:57:56
In this thread I've seen Calvert-Lewin - who somehow won PotS for us - described as a "top striker". That's after watching 20 minutes of Aguero score two and have another two or three saved very well. Compare that to 90 minutes - nay, most of a season - where our "top striker" fell over with ball at feet, passed the ball to the keeper, couldn't get into position to receive a pass, and generally looked like a League 2 player.

Seriously, with half the supporter base treating this guy like he's the second coming of Dixie Dean, Everton are exactly where they deserve to be.

Rob Dolby
236 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:58:52
Thomas 209. Technically we can't get even close to city. A bit of physical contact isn't Plums ffs..
Robert Tressell
237 Posted 23/05/2021 at 19:58:57
Soren at 226, where do you get the notion from that Moshiri wants to bring the glory days back? I can't see any sign of such intentions.
Dave Brierley
238 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:00:34
Im with you too John Boon.

Nailed it.

Thomas Richards
239 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:01:57
It is to me Rob.

Why would you want to kick them, why would you want to injure them?
Competing 100% should be a given.
Attempts to injure De Bruyne, Foden etc are a no go for me.

Dan Nulty
240 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:02:52
I'd be happy with that business Colin. Can't see Hudson Odoi giving up champions league football though.
Paul Swan
241 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:08:56
If there was a glimmer of something, anything, a playing style, a change in the defeatist mindset, a willingness to step up and fight or at least be a nasty bastard I might say give Ancelotti more time. But there is nothing just lifeless, luke warm tepid football and tactics with a gutless and demotivated squad. There needs to be a change in philosophy from top to bottom at this club. Someone to come in balls out and say this is the way we are going to play and this is what I expect and either accept it or move on. Holgate, Davies, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Bernard, Allen, Keane and Gomes are not good enough and never will be good enough and typify how non-performances still get you picked week after week. At the end of last season it was equally dire and people said don’t worry Carlo will sort this out. Well he didn’t sort it out. He actually made it worse and unless someone lights a fire under his arse next season will be exactly the same. At the end of last season Ancelotti challenged the players to return for the next season with more ambition. I make the same challenge to him.
James Head
242 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:11:01
I have no doubt that a full Goodison Park will not tolerate the utter indifference and lack of effort or pride in the shirt that we have had to tolerate from a distance this season.

It won't be 10 or 12 games in – it'll be 25 minutes into the first home game of next season, if we have the same shithouse sideways and backwards passing and constant concession of the football we have had to endure this season. Then Goodison Park will turn ugly.

Ancelotti was wrong, evolution is impossible with this bunch of average feeble-minded players; we need revolution throughout the whole club.

There used to be a pride in supporting this club. We felt different, special, we're Everton, we're a sleeping giant, we'll be back... These last few years have squashed that feeling in me. I just feel embarrassed now, we're a joke and rightly dismissed by the media and gobshite pundits.

Mike Gaynes
243 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:11:29
John #203, bravo.
Soren Moyer
244 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:13:02
If only I could mate.

Very good and valid question indeed! Hence the "if" in my post.

Conor McCourt
245 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:15:04
"Carlo needs more time". To do what? did you not hear the man we apparently have had a fantastic season. Supporters of this manager have been asking all season for an answer to the question who should we appoint instead. I've got to the point of reaching for an answer- anybody.

I'm not being disrespectful or discourteous. I mean it give me Silva, Mike Walker, Steve Cooper or Manuel from Fawlty Towers, I don't care. Why? Because this has been my least enjoyable season as an Everton supporter and within three months any of these will have a chance of getting the bullet. Under this regime I dread the plug may not be pulled before the end of next season and I don't think I can endure another season watching this.

I like you all am an Everton fanatic and I don't expect miracles, I just want to enjoy my football whether we finish first or fifteenth.

Rob Dolby
246 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:15:06
I never said injure anyone.

City have the best 2 in the league for sly leaving one on the opposition professional fouls in fernandinho and Rodri. Why can't any of our midfielders do the same?

We have seen teams successfully target Rodriguez with rough tactics this season including the shites best defender.

Why not at least try and get in the faces of the oppo. If you can't match teams technically at least let them walk off the pitch knowing that they have been in some form of physical contest.

Thomas Richards
247 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:22:03

"leave one on the city players" you said.
Leave one on but hope they don't get injured as a result?

Only opinions Rob and I love to see hard but fair challenges.
Not for me anyone attempting to hurt an opponent against a team like City.
Holgate tried to do Foden on the by line, a shithouse tackle imo.

John Kavanagh
248 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:23:01
So, Carlo's signings were going to transform Everton? One on a private jet taking the piss and a couple of invisible duffers waddling around the pitch like castrated penguins. And people on here think that giving out loads more cash to buy sick notes and retirement home fodder is going to improve us? Like it has this season?

The only transformation I've seen is that from us being condescending good old Everton to out and out laughing stock. I'll give Carlo until November at the very latest. If the next signings start looking like the current batch (Godfrey being the noble exception) then the axe must fall swiftly.

And if Carlo's son is a top coach then why are most of the players unfit, static and without any discernible organisation? Nepotism rarely works in any undertaking and football is no exception.

Whatever his limitations, Big Dunc would never have allowed players to get away with the 'performances' they've served up in recent weeks. They'd be in the treatment room with a valid reason for a change.

Oh and George Mc K - it's a sign of just how bad things have got when even you lose it on TW. I only thought I would ever see it if we got relegated! So cheer up, it hasn't happened - yet.

Same again next Groundhog season - It's Everton that.

Jamie Evans
249 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:24:48
The hardest bit will be selling our high earning underperformers. Who will take them and give the, them the money we do?

Bill Watson
250 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:25:41
Iwobi and Bernard coming on as subs really summed the day up. Did anyone really expect either of them to have any impact on the game? It's really just replacing deadwood with more deadwood.

While those above us will be shopping at Harrods or, at least, Waitrose we'll once again be rummaging through the £ shop short dated shelf.

Rob Dolby
251 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:33:55
Thomas I meant leave one on them similar to the countless professional fouls we see every week from the most successful teams in the league in the current era. Not leave one on them from the 70s with Ron Harris and Norman Hunter.

Fernandinho, Rodri city
Fred, Mc Tominay, Matic utd
Kante, Jorginho, chelsea
Henderson, milner, wiynaldum - the shit
Charles haughtry, Kenneth Williams - us

John Kavanagh
252 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:34:20
Yep Bill W, Best Before 2015. Our squad should be tattooed with 'Sell by 2021'
Danny Baily
253 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:35:09
Had something positive to play for right up to the last game of the season. Big improvement.
Kieran Kinsella
254 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:36:47

Unlike yourself I couldn’t enjoy my football if we were 15th because that would mean we keep losing. It’s a results business not performance art like ballet. In terms of results we were four points short of our objective. I’m not happy about it but I did enjoy watching all those away wins because we won which is what matters to me.

As for sacking Carlo, his history apart, many wanted to sack Moyes in his second season when we were 17th. We didn’t and the next year we were fourth. Since then any time we’ve drifted near 17th or even 15th we sacked our manager. We done it several times in quick succession and clearly it didn’t work. So I’m suggesting we try something we have previously done with just Kendall and Moyes in the last three decades and that is give the guy some more time

Darryl Ritchie
255 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:40:47
Sometimes the lights shining on me,
Other times I can barely see,
Lately it occurs to me,
What a long, strange trip it’s been.

Jerry Garcia about sums this season up for me. May we never see it’s like again.

Jack Convery
256 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:43:21
I see Miss Dynamite is on the Football Review Panel - How about concentrating on EFC and reviewing the shambles of a squad we have. However you need knowledge of football to do that don't you !!!
Michael Boardman
257 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:44:37
Rob, no need to defend yourself, as most will see where you are coming from, we just want to see commitment. Do like the Carry On analogy, more Benny Hill music though today watching them think about running after the ball on at least 6 occasions.
Kieran Kinsella
258 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:45:05
As for James I thought his post was crass and he should have been there today cheering on the team. But sadly this is the galatico culture with Bale “wales, golf, Madrid” or Beckham going off to Milan fashion shows before games. The “stars” are out of touch and the honest down to Earth Coleman’s and Naismiths are a dying breed.
Conor McCourt
259 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:45:12
We finished tenth Kieran

Result bad, performance bad

Robert Tressell
260 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:47:27
If it offers any perspective, the top 4 once again comprises the 4 most expensively assembled squads by some distance. This is the Premier League experience. Money wins. Below that, 5th to 11th are separated by just 11 points. 7th to 10th are separated by just 3 points. Leicester, West Ham and Leeds have outperformed relative to investment. Everton, Spurs and Arsenal have underperformed relative to investment. We ended up 3 points off where we should have ended up (7th) based on squad value. If you want someone to manage crap players, hire Moyes or Allardyce or Dyche. Ancelotti is the man to manage players of calibre with the talent to win things. He's wasted here without real investment.
Michael Boardman
261 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:47:46
Bale [Real Madrid], Beckham [LA Galaxy], James [Everton]. spot the non-Hollywood script there
Tony Everan
262 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:49:49
Anyone think think it is not 100% nailed on that Carlo Ancelotti will be here next season ? It’s unlikely but there’s a chance he may take the Juve or RM job and cite “family reasons” , ie his wife or daughter prefers it on the continent. I am not totally convinced that everything is right behind the scenes.
Joe McMahon
263 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:50:39
As many have said, when managing teams with the likes of Zidane, Ronaldo, Lampard, Seedorf and Pirlo etc Carlo wins things.

But let's not kid ourselves this club hasn't achieved anything for a very long time.

There are only so many decades tales of Ball, Catterick, Kendall, Reid, Gray et al can be peddled out for. It's an absolutely pitiful state of affairs. The clearout/changes (which will never happen). Need to start at Finch Farm.

Danny Broderick
264 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:50:49
Seems to me we have two options - give the players a pass, or give the manager a pass.

I’m firmly behind the manager. Our failings were down to Martinez initially. Then it was Koeman’s fault. Then it was Allardyce’s fault. Then it was Silva’s fault. Well it’s achieved absolutely nothing changing all of those managers and sticking with the players.

Our players perennially put their flip flops on around April when our season is over. Carlo called them out after the Sheff U match. He’s not blameless - some of his selections, formations and subs have baffled me. But he’s done enough in football for us to have faith that he can get players in to improve us.

We need to get rid of the weak core at the club. Bernard, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Delph, Iwobi etc. We need young, hungry players who play every week and are determined to succeed. While these players remain in our dressing room, the foot will always come off the pedal in April, regardless of who is in charge. The elephant in the room is players who can’t be arsed. We need 2/3 players to come in, but 6/7 to leave.

Kevin Molloy
265 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:50:58
if I was an unbiased pundit, I'd think 'just don't ask me about that garbage bucket, Everton'. How would you be able to keep the contempt out of your voice, spending like a drunken sailor, utterly dire footy, no spine, falling at the first and last fence. Or maybe you wouldn't even think that, so irrelevant have we become.
Clive Rogers
266 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:52:01
Can’t believe people are saying keep Allan. He had a shocker today and was way off the pace. He’s finished.
Martin Mason
267 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:53:38
Lots of Zombie comments today and even more mediocre ones.
Michael Boardman
268 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:53:44
Fantastic Robert, manage players to win things, with investment., as long as they can get private jets back home when they choose. Remember Muller wanting his leccy bills paid while nearly signing during the Walker days? We, and hardly anyone, has succeeded while employing mercenaries. Investment needs to be on a Dortmund / Leipzig or even Brentford template, because we cannot compete with 3 of the top 4 financially.
Phillip Warrington
269 Posted 23/05/2021 at 20:55:54
This is Everton's problem. Too many players like James Rodriguez would be rather somewhere else than play for the club. This is just Everton. Everything on the line and arguably their best player would rather save himself and get ready to play for his national team instead of his club team.
Dave Lynch
270 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:01:01
It hurts because we (as usual) got our hopes up.

Ancelotti was the 2nd coming a world class manager who would turn us into winners.

He may well do that with another season or 2 at the helm, we will see.

Still hurts like hell though.

John Boon
271 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:01:19
Mike (244) I appreciate your support.My comments (203) are really that as a supporter of "Anything", football teams, politics, religion or whatever requires supporters to stick together. It is fine to direct anger to those in charge. Fortunately FANS have tremendous vocal affect on a team on game day and they can inspire the team to greater efforts. Unfortunately behind the scenes, including the team selections and managerial appointments WE... the fans have little effect, so I just do not see the point of firing guns at fellow supporters who basically want the same thing.

However I do support lively discussion because being an Everton supporter is still the most important thing in life. I know that because my long suffering wife told me..

Nicholas Ryan
272 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:01:56
My daughter is a decent Tennis player. She has 2 coaches, one amateur [i.e. coaches amateur players] and one professional [i.e. coaches professional players]. It was said to me, that: 'The amateur coach builds the engine, the pro coach tunes the engine'.

I think Carlo thought he was coming to EFC on a 'tuning' mission, but pretty quickly it became obvious, that in fact he was on a 'building' job. This is not something that he is used to.

Will he succeed? Yes, because his record suggests, that he is good enough to be both a builder and a tuner. If he were not 'up for the challenge' he would be starting next season at either Real Madrid or Spurs. I'm confident that he won't be at either of those places. He seems to be in this for the long haul... which is just as well!

By the way 'Burnt Orange'... my arse; that sash is Red!!

Mike Connolly
273 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:06:21
Rob I agree, I know you did not mean dirty tackles but give them something to think about. But this is Everton right through the club up to the board. Moto should be NO Confrontation just roll over. We could not be bothered making an issue about Niaas being the only player getting sent off for simulating. and var has gone against us the past couple of matches. The officials don't give a shit because its only Everton they wont kick up a fuss
Soren Moyer
274 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:07:30
Danny #254,
Spot on. Another con artist scamming the club. "We had something to fight for til the last game"!!!!? Insult to our fans' inteligence. Thats what it is!
Pat Kelly
275 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:09:40
Nicholas #273, I have doubts about Ancelotti's building at Everton so far. His two big signings Allan and Rodriguez aren't Premiership material. Allan is already slow and not getting any younger. Neither is Rodriguez one for the future, he's not even here today. So next season they will contribute maybe even less. If this is the best he can bring in he's going to need more windows than the Shard.
Will Mabon
276 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:13:09
Jack @ 257,

"Fan-led" football review panel, apparently. Sure it is. How many fans was that? Oh, only one.

Two members from women's football of course, you know, it representing a solid 20% of top flight football and all. I said at the time, don't invite the government in.

Watch and weep down the line as it becomes an "In" for even more politics as very predictable "Issues" become further included and piggy-backed onto the sport. Monitoring bigger teams, listening to fans... er, what does that mean?

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

John Keating
277 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:15:43
Managers, coaches, players, owners, board members, when they do good they deserve praise, when they cock up they get what they deserve.
Unfortunately there are some who continually complain, offer nothing constructive just hate.
That's their right I suppose but thankfully this disappointing season is over and maybe we can get a bit of relief from this non-stop moaning.
It might be well to remember
We've had Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and now Ancelotti.
Are all these managers that shit??
The one common denominator in all these managers reigns is...the players.
We know they can do it, it's just that they do it when it suits them.
Something is far wrong at Finch Farm and has been for far too long, it needs sorting. Too many been there too long? Who knows, but something is not right.
There are too many to bin in the close season but we have to ship out whoever we can or next season will be another for the haters.
Sean O’Hanlon
278 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:17:11
Back on the 30 January, after 19 games, we had 33 points – this was following a 2-0 home defeat to Newcastle. I was chatting to Barry Williams on here, and Barry predicted another 33 points for the remainder of the season. And he was perfectly right to make such a prediction, and looking at the home games, that was something very achievable. Instead, we have 26 points from 19 games.

This awful season is down to the manager. After our honeymoon period at the start season, we fell apart. International players don't suddenly start playing crap. The manager is the boss, and his managerial skills at our club, have been sadly lacking.

Everton FC are not the your normal club. A big name manager doesn't mean anything. We need someone close to the club. Someone who knows the club. David Moyes, with the resources he had available did his best. When was our last success? Royle and Kendall.

We will go nowhere with Ancelotti. The only time I've seen Everton playing with spirit and determination is when Duncan Ferguson was temporarily in charge. Give Big Dunc a year, not 2 months. Otherwise, it's the same old shite with some foreign manager, doing the same old shite.

James Head
279 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:18:25
Lots of Zombie players today and even more mediocre ones.
Mike Connolly
280 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:22:54
good post john 278
Robert Tressell
281 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:25:08
Michael @ 269, I agree. That's why I think our whole recruitment strategy is wrong. We pretend to be a rich club when we are not. I would be very pleased to follow a more imaginative recruitment strategy. The alternative is to accept more years of mediocrity because we simply don't have the money to compete.
Will Mabon
282 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:25:08
"Something is far wrong at Finch Farm and has been for far too long, it needs sorting."

Yep. The problem, I believe.

John McFarlane Snr
283 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:25:11
Hi John [272] like yourself I have come to the realisation that we supporters can have little effect on matters of the club and I see no point in vilifying individual players, or fans. I believe that the situation we find ourselves in, is down to the fact that we're just not good enough. I know that you are aware of my outlook on football, and my view that there are more important things in life, but as bad as things are now, I have every intention of renewing my season ticket.
Hywel Owen
284 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:25:23
I have written several times about the so-called players and their "don't care" attitude and lack of honest effort on the pitch. They treat the fans – and the management, come to that – with an insulting disdain and their lack of commitment, considering their pay, borders on criminal deceit and dishonesty.

Normally our away points tally is about 60% of the home form and considering that we amassed so few points at home our total would have seen us close to being relegated. Let this be a warning for those long contract players who intend to carry on in the same fashion next season.

We can only hope that full home attendances will be allowed in the new season and that the fans will let these shysters know immediately what they think of them.

Conor Skelly
285 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:25:31
A mid-tble club who specialises in mediocrity. Destined to be the jesters of the top league. Had a chance of getting it right with Moshiri early on but its been squandered and now its too far back. Forget about Everton lads. Ancelotti just reflects our delusions of graduer. Instead of Talent we throw money at mercenaries because its much easier to throw money at a problem than it is to run a club properly. No point in naming players who aren't good enough. Lazy recruitment also symptomatic of a lazy, nouveau riche company of idiots.
Brent Stephens
286 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:27:32
I had hoped to finish higher in the league this season, as a stepping stone to something better, especially after a good start to the season. Our away form was good, but our home form poor; rarely scoring more than two in any game, home or away (though rarely conceding more than two).

I think it's reasonable to say (in fact, didn't Carlo himself say as much?) that, away from home, our tactics were to play more defensively, in the knowledge that we have too many defenders short on quality (especially pace on the turn). Hence a deep defensive line, and with the midfield staying back in support. And that, allied to poor offensive abilities in midfield, meant that we were never in a position to create many chances. I think the stats show that our conversion rate was not bad – and that the problem is creating chances in the first place.

At home, we tried to open up - but given those defensive frailties, and the lack of midfield offensive ability, we both opened ourselves up to concede goals, while not having the ability to compensate with goals of our own.

I wouldn't argue for one minute that Carlo hasn't made mistakes - for example, some of the substitutions have left many of us wondering. I suspect he's still been trying to see this season who he could start with in each game, in what formations, against which opposition. Form has deserted some players at points in the season (Richie, DCL, etc at times). And injuries have depleted the squad: among others, of our 3 main signings, all have suffered significant injuries and time out - often two if not three of them at the same time. And fair to say that as the season has worn on, their contribution has diminished, notwithstanding injuries. Squad weaknesses have left us with next to no quality cover.

So looking forward, I think it's pointless screaming "go now, Carlo" as I just can't see Moshiri getting rid or Carlo moving on (and could we really attract the likes of Potter or Cooper?!). Carlo is surely with us for next season at least. So let’s move on - to the other main question of squad changes.

It's been said before, nothing innovative in what I'm saying - we need to clear the decks of quite a few (I think most of the names, most of us are agreed on). That will surely continue to happen.

And obviously we need to make further signings. We need a few signings of already-proven quality. Again, I think most of us are agreed on the positions to strengthen - but for me, given the above analysis, we need to start with strengthening the defence - allowing us to move further up the pitch and to free up the midfield more so that they can contribute more offensively. But we also need to strengthen that midfield with some creative play. And further quality to convert the chances. Ally that to a few more signings with potential.

I rely on the Robert Tressells and Mike Gaynes' of this world for clues on signings! And a certain Mr Brands.

The debate over Carlo has been had, ad infinitum. We've all said our piece on that score, numerous times. He's here for next season, so let's now move on to debate signings.

Hywel Owen
287 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:34:20
I have written several times about the so called players and thir don't care attitude and lack of honest effort on the pitch. They treat the fans and the management come to that with an insulting disdain and their lack of commitment, considering their pay, borders on criminal deceit and dishonesty. Normally our away points tally is about 60% of the home form and considering that we amassed so few points at home our total would have seen us close to being relegated.

Let this be a warning for those long contract players who intend to carry on in the same fashion next season. We can only hope that full home attendances will be allowed in the new season and that the fans will let these shysters know immediately what they think of them
Joe Corgan
288 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:34:34
I’m livid beyond rational footballing thought today. God knows what’s wrong at Everton but whatever it is, it runs deep.

Today we finished beneath Leeds in the final standings. You remember Leeds? That club that’s spent the best part of the last twenty years in the lower leagues.

Everybody at the club should be ashamed of themselves today. Some need to go. Moshiri is a money man but not a football man. We need a David Dein or Ed Woodward figure to emerge from the shadows and grab this dysfunctional club by its bollocks.

Thomas Richards
289 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:36:45
All the best fellow ToffeeWebbers.

Keep the faith.
Our day will come

Martin Mason
290 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:42:33
James@280 Not those playing for Everton mate. Nobody I saw even made the zombie or mediocre grade apart from Pickford.
Don Alexander
291 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:42:38
Given the hopelessness of much of £half-a-billion spent thus far I just wonder to what extent, if any, the loss of £7mill by coming tenth instead of seventh might have on our allegedly top-notch accountant?

On the plus side, for him this year, he's just become a double billionaire according to Forbes, whilst the guy he accounts for has this year reportedly "earned" nigh on £two billion personally.

Maybe we'll get some new lawn-mowers after all then, if he again asks the chairman that is.

Ian Edwards
292 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:43:52
Did I see someone suggesting we sign Hudson-Odio?? He's slower than Sigurdsson.
Martin Mason
293 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:44:18
James@280 Not those playing for Everton mate. Nobody I saw even made the zombie or mediocre grade apart from Pickford.
Thomas Richards
294 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:47:51
No, he is not Ian.

Your staying true to form old chap

Ian Edwards
295 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:52:37
We'll have to disagree again Thomas. You keep on being contrary if it makes you happy.
Dave Lynch
296 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:53:25
"I rely on the Robert Tressells and Mike Gaynes' of this world for clues on signings!"

With all due respect what have both Robert and Mike ever won at the highest level?

As much as I enjoy their posts they have no pull over who we sign, I or any Evertonian could pick a decent player if we saw one, it's whether our management team fancy them that counts.

No disrespect Robert and Mike by the way.

Barry Rathbone
297 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:54:05
In retrospect we got the wrong elite manager.

Easy going Carlo would have fitted spurs better they have decent players and don't need a complete rebuild. Conversely Jose would have put a long overdue bomb under this place and cleared the deadwood in 5 mins flat. Not that he'd get a chance some of our fans don't do radical.

Ian Edwards
298 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:54:54
By the way Thomas 295. As you spent some time today scouring my posts for typos please note it's "You're".
Thomas Richards
299 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:55:33


Martin Mason
300 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:56:33
Ian@296 It's never stopped you posting like a one trick pony has it?
Bill Hawker
301 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:56:37
Most Evertonians have already figured out that it isn’t the manager. It has been, and for the foreseeable future, will be the players. There are a few that want to put this on Ancelotti but fortunately, most of us understand his CV. The groups of players that we’ve had under Martinez, Koeman, Silva, and Allardyce haven’t taken any responsibility for these sorts of annual performances. Carlo is here for the long haul so get used to that. He and Brands must overhaul this squad.
Thomas Richards
302 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:56:58
Thanks Ian.

You're a loon.

Brent Stephens
303 Posted 23/05/2021 at 21:59:12
Dave, that's a strange post, as I've got no idea who Robert and Mike have played for - they just seem to make sense when I read them. I could mention others.

And I never for once suspected they have any pull over signings!


Kieran Kinsella
304 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:01:14

I don’t think so. Kane says Mourinho failed caused only he embraced Mourinhos winning attitude


I thought your post was uplifting till you suggested Cooper was too good for us

John McFarlane

You’ve see much more than me but bad though it is we’ve both seen much worse

Rob Halligan
305 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:03:45
It's Hudson-Odoi, not Hudson-Odio.
Kieran Kinsella
306 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:03:56

Not typos, falsehoods like our points tally being lower than recent years or Hudson being slower. Typos are mistakes not untrue statements designed to reinforce an opinion

Andy Kay
307 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:08:05
The first phone call Carlo should be making is to Frank Lampard to come in and work along side him with a view to taking over. I'm sorry if that upsets the Big Dunc fans, but Lampard is a winner of major trophies with a philosophy of starting younger hungry pacey players in his line ups. Hes worked under Carlo before and can could work well with the Brands plan of signing young talent rather than 29 year olds cashing in on their final pay day. His spat with Klopp means he's already got form for upsetting the RS. Would love a team of Tomoris, Mounts and Abrahams over some of the shite we've had to put up with this season
Kieran Kinsella
308 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:08:47

Me either but I think Gaynes and Tressell could’ve played better today than some

Andrew Clare
309 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:11:35
Robert at #261 your post says it all. Unless we are prepared to back Ancelotti with big money he is completely wasted at Everton, that's if he is still here next season.
Unfortunately as it stands we are a mediocre team with players that are nowhere near as good as we think they are.
The Everton I started supporting in the sixties is light years away from the car crash that I see now.
Brent Stephens
310 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:11:49
Kieran, we brought Tressell and Gaynes on at the wrong time.
Pat Kelly
311 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:16:39
Carlo is going nowhere. And he's taking Everton with him. Enjoy the summer and don't believe the back pages.
Thomas Richards
312 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:17:53

Spot on mate.

Like saying to one of the best joiners in the world.A master craftsman.
"The brief is to build a magnificent timber house. Apologies, I have no timber available. Could you improvise"

Brent Stephens
313 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:20:57
No timber and too many tools, Thomas?
Martin Mason
314 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:24:13
Everton has become a permanent fallen big club, over-staffed with people who never got past 1980 in learning the game and full of Manager and CEO Cronies who add cost but little value. Worse though, over-staffed with people who are associated and forever tainted with Everton failure, to whom success is simply not failing and who don't share the fans passion and hunger for success. This type of club is almost impossible to recover (re United) and the situation is vastly more complex than the terminally idiotic "change the manager" or "buy a good midfielder" solutions, they aren't solutions at all now. I believe that where we missed out badly was not being relegated, a process which would have streamlined the club in efficiency and rid it of the need for and expense of its army of hangers on (not an option now I accept). We need to have a cull at the club that puts an army of amateur administrators including BK and an army of coaches whose only real qualification was being ex-Evertonians. A Board member as head scout? The corruption of the HC's son and BK crony as "assistant coaches" is quite simply of the highest order and corruption destroys. Finch Farm should be run as a business not a job centre for ex-Everton players. We have never, ever been fit for the EPL only hangers on and we're not fit yet for the EPL despite our new money which, with the current set up, is like throwing it into the Mersey. As fans though we can do nothing except boo and the club can be happy with surviving and feasting on TV money forever. The fans want winners, many at the club just want to stay in the EPL.

Please note that this is an emotional post after seeing the worst Everton performance I've seen in 60 years, one which the club should be ashamed of and should apologise to the fans for. It is my opinion, I'm happy to learn from being shown wrong.

James Owen
315 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:24:14
I don't know what everyone is complaining and whingeing about. We are top half of the table for cripes sake.
Carlo needs time. Who would've thought we could get a manager of his credentials? Show the man a bit of faith, and he will repay you.
(Either that or get us relegated.)
Stan Schofield
316 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:24:17
The bottom line is simple. Unless we spend comparably to City or Chelsea on top players, we aint progressing much beyond midtable. Doesn’t matter who the manager is, to be at the top you have to spend commensurately, and we don’t.

All the angst on here is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on a ship that’s stuck in the doldrums.

The criticisms of Ancelotti are naive and laughable. All PL managers are paid millions, no matter who they are, but the ones who manage the very top teams have massive financial resources backing them.

Get real folks, and reduce your blood pressure.

Paul Swan
317 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:34:24
If there was just one shred of evidence Ancelotti was improving things I would back him. I can’t see it anywhere.
Brendan McLaughlin
318 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:40:41
We finished 12th last season on 49 points...this season 10th on 59. You did say "just one shred"...that's two!
Colin Glassar
319 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:44:29
Martin 315, I’m surprised and pleased you’ve finally seen through the pernicious influence of one BK esq.
David Hallwood
320 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:46:48
Plus Paul(#318) & Brendan(#319) we are 9 points away from 4th, and that's playing shite lo-block football and the worst injury list in the division.

I'm not saying I'm happy at the state of the club, but sometimes it's glass half full.

Paul Hewitt
321 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:50:10
Moan moan moan. That's all some people do.
Rob Halligan
322 Posted 23/05/2021 at 22:50:35
Paul # 318. What do you propose we do then, sack Carlo and bring Mr so and so in. Then in twelve months time we will be having the exact same argument, sack Mr so and so and bring another Mr so and so in. Then in two years time we will be having a further exact same argument, sack the new Mr so and so and bring in a further Mr so and so. This chopping and changing of managers will get us absolutely nowhere, unless you want mid table mediocrity for ever more. Oh and by the way, FA Cup third round last year, quarter finals this year. Is that an improvement, or don't cup competitions count?
Tony Everan
323 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:01:38
Martin 315, An emotional post from you, I agree with the sentiments. For me, I am bored to death with it all, the anger and angst have left the building and now I have become eyes glazed over with the sheer boredom of the never ending cycle of mediocrity. It has become depressingly predictable.

We buy players and then they regress after they’ve arrived , some even completely ineffective, unwanted and unsellable . Who would bet against us buying players in the summer and them turning into worthless deadwood on massive contracts within a year or so?

Robert earlier talked about the transfer strategy having to shift dramatically. We can only hope.

Martin talks about Finch Farm, there’s got to be something wrong there. We don’t play as a team and the basics of our play are substandard. Why do players so often regress so the basics can seem elusive?

How is Bielsa getting so much out of his Leeds team and us getting so little out of ours? They have, allegedly, a poorer squad but they more motivated, well drilled, and will run for 90mins, they look like they are all on the same page and fighting for each other . They look like they will stand up to any team and give it a right go under any circumstances.

Why can’t we have some of that at Everton, at the moment we are still without any identity.

Last week someone posted about getting Paul Clement in as a training ground Tsar. I’m not sure of who would be suitable but an injection of supreme professionalism to oversee all that goes on in training and be given authority to make positive changes could be money very well spent.

Fundamental changes are necessary, and that means making hard decisions that will ruffle feathers and cause upset.

We cannot let that stop us trying to fix structural problems at the club.

Kieran Kinsella
324 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:05:06
Everton “a fallen club”, Holgate “ruined” this thread reads like Pride and Prejudice
Colin Glassar
325 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:12:04
Rob, you’re wasting your time mate. People want instant gratification and results. No one is interested in team building or facing facts like us trying to catch up with the leading pack.

Anyway, it’s late. Tomorrow is another day and the sun will come up as it always does. After the pain the optimism will return and we’ll soon be speculating excitedly about the new season.

Laurie Hartley
326 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:12:54
I knew we would get hammered by City but 5-0? Not surprising after the surrender of the season against Sheffield Utd.

The problem with Everton Football Club is that it has lost its footballing soul. It’s only hope is Evertonians.

Tony Abrahams
327 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:14:36
I reckon I’ve seen at least fifty of these terrible performances over the years Martin M. It wasn’t as bad as the one I referenced earlier, at the start of this thread imo, although I had visions of a similar score line today once I saw the two team sheets.

Did Ancellotti make us a defensive team because he doesn’t trust his current defenders? I wish I could say “I can’t wait until next season to find out” but I’d be telling lies, because like James Rodriguez, I’m fatigued!

Paul Swan
328 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:14:46
Rob 323 so what is Everton’s identity under Ancelotti? What system do we play? It’s an absolute shambles. Pissed around week in week out. If there was a plan, a vision a strategy I might think differently.

David 321 if you keep buying and keeping crocks at the club don’t be surprised you have a poor injury record

Brendan 319, if that is what £13 million a year gets you, progress indeed

Brendan McLaughlin
329 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:32:20
Paul #329
You asked for "one shred of evidence" and I gave you two. David (#321) gave you more. You didn't originally ask if we got value for money but it is nonetheless "progress indeed"
Dale Self
330 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:33:49
Wow. I’ll be back to take my share but Carlo is not the problem, not in the pundit narrative or in reality. Yes there was some brown plate special served up but no player has yet to undermine Carlo’s explanation. When Carlo said there were lots of quality players out there that says where the solution to the problen is found. Back tmrw for more TW post Morten edition.
Rob Halligan
331 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:36:05
Colin, you're right mate.
Kieran Kinsella
332 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:39:28

Don’t worry before the game was even played one expert announced that he was writing his season end explanation as to how Carlo is the root of all evil. He didn’t give a lot of spoilers but acolytes and sycophants apparently play a key role.

Brendan McLaughlin
333 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:39:34
Haven't got a scooby-do what that meant but post of the thread for me
Paul Hewitt
334 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:49:11
What do people want? Instant success. It takes time to change a team from failure to success. I have rs mates who wanted Klopp out in his first full season. And I clearly remember city fans saying pep wasn't good enough after we beat them 4-0. If we don't give managers real time to change thinks. Then nothing will change
Kevin Molloy
335 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:50:22
Martin 316
as you say, an appalling performance. One you would never glean though from Carlo's pitchside demeanor after the game. He was calm, philosophical, it didn't feel like he was a manager that had been thrashed five nil to a team worried about a cup final next week, he was impressively stoical about the whole affair. If I was Moshiri though and it was my fifty million burning a hole in Carlo's arse pocket I'd be feeling a little short changed at this point. I'd certainly be mulling over whether it would be entirely a good idea to give mr cool another fifty big ones to right the ship.
Dale Self
336 Posted 23/05/2021 at 23:58:16
Hey Brendan, watching my other Blues about to exit the hockey playoffs so I just dropped in. Looked like the out crowd was in gear so defending the one dude who might break thru the club’s dysfunction seemed a good move. Let me know if your retarded American football friend can explain anything worth translating. Keep it going, there will be words.
Jim Harrison
337 Posted 23/05/2021 at 00:03:05
That was a mauling.

City were light years ahead. Every tune they went forward the looked like scoring

Some very bad performances. But glimmers of hope! (I like to try and stay positive)

Godfrey had a mixed game. Certainly looked shocked at times but he kept on going. If nothing else he showed persistence.

Pickford was a spectator in virtual all the goals with little of no chance to save. He made some decent saves and ended the season looking like the keeper we first signed, al be it having just conceded 5!!

We probably won’t see Bernard, Iwobi or Holgate again! And that’s good!

Brendan McLaughlin
338 Posted 23/05/2021 at 00:03:34
Hi Dale
Didn't think I would smile today..never mind laugh out loud.
Don Alexander
339 Posted 23/05/2021 at 00:09:08
Laurie (#327) spot on mate, but the soul went out of our club when a certain bumptious lying evasive self-adoring psuedo got into our boardroom in 1989 (and '89 was when we were just on the cusp of a downward trend "courtesy" of the Heysel atrocity).

Since then he's got fabulously richer whilst the club and its fans have had to sup footballing gruel, delivered personally by him for decades.

Can anyone name one other club that's had to endure the same bloke in the owner/chairman role for 32 consecutive fucking years?

And yet there's still so much comment on the effectiveness or otherwise of our fabulously accomplished manager. Jeez!

Even our Dazza, a mysteriously deranged fan of any Kenwright appointed ex-player coach as he is, has always like me spelt out the culpability of the current chairman.

And me and Dazza ain't alone, thankfully.

I just hope Mosh reads this site and then, for once, makes good decisions for us.

David Currie
340 Posted 23/05/2021 at 00:32:36
Horrible result and performance today.
Great to see 2 world class managers on the sidelines? Think out of the 2 of them would rather have Slap as he has his teams play positive attacking Football.
All credit to him, the owners and the players. After the Champions League semi final first leg which they won 2-1, 3 times in the interview he said our goal was to win in Paris. That winning mentality how I wish one day we get someone like that at our club.
Dale Self
341 Posted 24/05/2021 at 00:54:17
Brendan, if it helps at all I really do believe we will have seasons that will allow us to laugh at this one and soon.
Pete Clarke
342 Posted 24/05/2021 at 01:05:32
Cannon Fodder indeed. We finally chose to give it a bit of a go and got exposed completely. What was Michael Keane thinking when he tried to dribble through their midfield ? We know once he makes a mistake then his day is done.

What is Doucouré's game ? He is nowhere near as good Idrissa Gana Gueye and we didn't think he was good enough !!

Calvert Lewin is powder puff and I'm not sure he's that great in the air.

So there's the spine of the team that are average but probably 3 of the best players we have.

I'm not advocating for Ancelotti to go but he may be shitting himself at the reality of the task on his hands. Retirement may be on his mind today I think.
Derek Thomas
343 Posted 24/05/2021 at 01:06:04
A new kit that...depending on how good - or bad, your colour vision is...may have a tinge of red about it, is the least of Moshiri's problems.
Somebody on the live forum summed them up...

'The Gash with the Sash'

Barry Hesketh
344 Posted 24/05/2021 at 02:22:55
This is the worst Everton squad since 1979 there's no spirit, no skill no pride in any of the players or the management team. the really frightening thing is that it could very easily get far worse before it gets better. If Everton manages to maintain their top-flight status by the time we move - if we move - to BMD I'll be amazed.
Kieran Kinsella
345 Posted 24/05/2021 at 02:48:21

Do you not remember the HKIII team? Oster, Farrelly, Tyler — who decided Charlton were a bigger club? This team may have a woeful lack of character (aside from Coleman, Godfrey and Pickford) but on a playing level their far above that team and others featuring Claus Thomson, Li Tie etc. if Tom Davies were in that HKIII team he’d be far and away one of the best players. That said it all. Then we had Smith bringing in Ginola and Gaza’s. People mean about James but come on he’s done more than those jokers. We also blew money on the likes of Radzinski, Davies and Beattie so Gomes and co are hardly the first expensive disappointments. Tenth is poor, 59 points is OK but keep some perspective. We didn’t need a wrongly ruled out Bolton goal or a bribed Wimbledon goalie to keep us in the prem, neither did we fail to hit the 40 point mark like we did once under Moyes.

Lester Yip
346 Posted 24/05/2021 at 02:48:22
Leaving it to the last game trying to get something out against City is non-sense. I have no doubt they will be on fire to celebrate with home crowds and gave Augero a proper farewell. But I am not expecting a 5-0.
Kieran Kinsella
347 Posted 24/05/2021 at 02:53:29

That’s the thing, we had a far easier opponent last Sunday and they didn’t show up. City are phenomenal, even if we played well we’d likely lose. We should have done better at home against so many weak teams.

Sur Jo
348 Posted 24/05/2021 at 02:57:03
Which manager that finished 12th one season, then 10th the next season has gone on to crack the champions league places the following season? Delusional
What has he not seen at the end of the last campaign after spending £75 million, that he is going to fix at the end of this campaign? The facts are there; ignore at our peril
Why did he sign King?
John Boon
349 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:02:54
The recent "Everton Story" is ripe for any Monty Python skit, although I realise that I date myself with such an analogy. From reading all the posts I can see the Mersey turning "Blue" from the lemming Evertonians seing no life beyond The "Manchester Massacre".They willingly throw their Blue Bodies into the dark waters.

We lost 5-0 to Manchester City. We were terrible, really awful but to cite John McFarlane(284), "There are far more important things in life". I totally agree with him,but Everton of very late do drive the normal rational human being to the edge of insanity. Apart from those who have already thrown themselves into the Mersey, I make a plea to just save yourselves, your children and of course your much maligned wives. In today's world world I must also include 'Partners'of either sex

You do have other options:
1. Lie to the family and friends with the soul destroying pledge to NEVER watch Everton again. You have nine weeks to change your mind.

2. Threaten to leave home. This may be welcomed by those who have just observed you watching the Man C game.

3.Chase your cat or dog around the house threatening to strangle it because it jumped in front of the TV just as Siggy was taking the penalty.That caused him to miss.

4.By far the most sensible option. Post on ToffeeWeb to the similarly deranged population telling the TW world how to change everything about your beloved 'Blues'so that they are guaranteed to win the Premier by at least 10 points next season.

5.Bring back the 'Death Penalty'for anyone connected with Everton

5, Just go to bed, say a prayer for Everton and hope Sunday was just one terrible NIGHMARE.

Kieran Kinsella
350 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:03:03
Sur Jo

Which manager got sacked multiple times, turned recent Euro champs Greece into the worst team in Europe then won the league with a Leicester team that had finished 16th the year before? Who among us would’ve hired Ranieri? Carlo has a much better track record

Sur Jo
351 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:05:27
Lambasting players is one thing. But if the captain is beyond it, it does not matter if a Maverick is the copilot.
Kieran Kinsella
352 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:05:29
John Boon

If I’d known you were going to post so sensibly I’d have saved myself the trouble. Goodnight mate

Sur Jo
353 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:07:15
I get your point Kieran and hopefully you are right
Ernie Baywood
354 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:08:00
In recent history, that's a bog standard season. 10th, not enough goals, 59 points. It's probably our average over the last 20 years or so.

There were some positives. We kind of shook off some hoodoos, at times we looked good, and we were in some sort of mix right up to the end.

But it's hard to feel anything but underwhelmed. Not angry, just underwhelmed.

I honestly don't see where the improvement comes from. We've got a few players worth building on, but the rest are your classic high wage low impact types. Improvement means we replace them with genuine quality and I just can't see it happening.

I reckon we're at complete rebuild time. And that means we've probably got the wrong manager.

The alternative is that we are about to go out and spend big on quality players. If that's the case then Ancelotti probably is the right man.

Transfer window will tell us a lot as to what our aims really are. If it's a combination of the two above, then our aim is to stay mid table and secure until the stadium is ready.

Kieran Kinsella
355 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:08:03
Sur Jo

Je ne comprends pas. Captain? You having a go at Seamus? Maverick? We talking James Garner or Top Gun? Did you attend the Eric Cantona school of analogies?

Sur Jo
356 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:10:04
Kieran, je parle de Carlo.
Jim Harrison
357 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:44:06
Sur 349

75 million is one player to utd, city, Liverpool.

It’s a pittance in terms of fees in terms of the top teams.

That’s not defending the performance of the manager, it’s just the reality of premier league transfer fees.

Ollie Watkins cost around 30 million and had a good first season, 14 goals I think. 30 million for 14 goals?

The disappointment of yesterday’s result isn’t so much that we got pumped by an outstanding team having a party on the last day of a championship winning season so much as that the team had to go into that match and win to have a chance of finishing in a European place.
Too many games dropping easy points. Too many missed chances.
Stick one of City’s forwards in that Everton team and in all likelihood it would have been a 6th or 7th place finish.

Got to get more goals for n the team, and a real presence in the middle. Sounds like the same issue since Rom left!

Steve Brown
358 Posted 24/05/2021 at 03:57:53
Angry comments after that shit show - and understandably so. We capitulated.

Our season can be summarised as a) relegation form at home b) champions league form away c) squad that is paper thin on talent and lacking resilience d) functional football from a team who are poor in possession e) manager who has rotated despite the thinness of the squad and sometime got his tactics wrong.

Interestingly, we tried to play a higher line against City and made it very easy for them to turn or run beyond our defenders - well some supporters wanted a more adventurous approach and you got it!

Big summer ahead for Carlo and Brands. Klopp got seven transfer windows to transform his squad so I advocate patience.


Kieran Kinsella
359 Posted 24/05/2021 at 04:33:53
I just ordered a new Everton shirt. My old Keijang Kevin Campbell shirt has gone AWOL, my Gary Speed one2one never fit anyway, and the old Andy Hinchcliffe NEC salmon pink striped kit has hardened into cardboard due to not using Persil automatic. I’m disappointed with tenth but I’m excited for next season COYB
Derek Knox
360 Posted 24/05/2021 at 05:19:36
Disappointing but not exactly unexpected, those games we lost at home have indeed come back to haunt us good style, the ridiculous GD has been a millstone too, and had margins been closer, again would have condemned us too, but alas it never actually came to that.

I wouldn't shed too many tears if any of our current squad were to leave in the summer, apart from Ben Godfrey that is. He is the sort of player we need another 10 of, obviously in different positions, and he Ben, will be even better next year.

Well now that a disappointing Season is over for a few months, maybe people can concentrate on the TW Golf Day 27th August, had a very poor response from those in the Merseyside area, but a brilliant one from those a lot further afield. Come on guys you know it makes sense.

Sorry Eds for throwing that in at the end, but thought it better than doing yet another update on General Forum.

Brian Murray
361 Posted 24/05/2021 at 05:20:28
If and it’s a big if we get the five or six first teamers we need, Does this transformation and shake up include finch farm training and the boardroom? Or is that a taboo closed shop. In this age of sports science I wonder where we are in that premier table. I’d say near the bottom.That in itself in gross negligence. I’m saying nothing new or original I’m just one of thousands of blues who are old enough to see a few signings won’t change the direction of the club. Once again hope I’m over reacting. The game changer for this club is if the worlds best Evertonian puts ego to one side and says enough and takes all his sidekicks with him.
Derek Knox
362 Posted 24/05/2021 at 06:07:21
Brian M, I believe there is a lot of truth behind what you say, but we as mere mortals are, and probably never will be, privy to what actually goes on behind both the doors of the Boardroom and Finch Farm. The amounts of money in the game now are staggering, and personally I think has gone too far, when you get basically teenagers (okay they may have a talent) earning on a monthly/yearly basis, what would be significantly Life Changing amounts to the man in the crowd.

There has to be something drastically wrong somewhere, we were very fortunate in getting Farhad Moshiri on board when we did, but since then (and I don't believe it's just down to his Football naivety) we have had several different Coaches/Managers, paid astronomical fees for some players, and yet we don't seem any different (some may say worse) than when Moyes left.

Derek Knox
363 Posted 24/05/2021 at 06:18:13
Paul A Smith
364 Posted 24/05/2021 at 06:19:27
Brian I see where you are coming from and sports science is absolute massive in the game now.

That is one area we should be looking to improve off the field.

Kenny Smith
365 Posted 24/05/2021 at 06:31:51
The game yesterday was always going to be a procession followed by the Aguero love in show. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to sort their head out. They are superior in every position by miles so let’s not forget that when ripping into the team and staff.
Ancelotti has got a job on and it’s gonna take time. I wanted Martinez and Koeman to go but I don’t feel the same about Ancelotti. Probably because I can see the issues with this team easier and it’s not his fault. He’s gone into the season thinking he’s got a threat in DCL and Richarlison but they don’t play as a pair. There’s no doubting Richalison can play but despite DCL breaking records he just doesn’t offer anything outside the 6 yard box. Hence why the ball constantly goes backwards. God loves a trier but Davies is not gonna get us up the table. Holgate is a midtable defender and made sure that’s where we finished. Sigurdsson continues to be an enigma and the subs bench is a collection of odds and sods who if they can’t get into this starting line up should be immediately released and replaced with just bibs.
I’m not slagging any of them off but they just aren’t good enough to put a run of games together when it’s needed.
The players that have come in have been quality and Ancelotti needs another 2 windows. I ll judge him then not after the only smashing we’ve had all season which after all was against the champions and future European cup winners.
Jerome Shields
366 Posted 24/05/2021 at 07:09:36

There is a consistency in Evertons performances season after season, no matter who the Manager is. When points are required to progress up the table, Everton usually fail to do so. They are more likely to stabilise their table position, failing then to progress. End of seasons are normally of a downward trajectory except on rare occasions, like the end of Silvas first season, which proved a false dawn at the beginning of the following season. This end of season was of a downward tranjectory, dependent on a lucky goal to put any meat on Evertons player performance and often instead resulted in a loss with no sign of recovery.

I hazard a guess that few will care two much about Everton's current situation within the Club, since Premier League football is assured as is their positions. Next season there is no demand on them other than to maintain that as their has been for years. This is the underlying reason for the lack of progress at Everton, which this season has resulted in a experienced world class Manager having to resort to formation manipulation and public condemnation to try to get his side to progress.

Quite frankly the players in the main where not to bothered and showed a lack of effort in preparation. Ancelotti had tried to lift the performance of individual players by individual coaching, but in the main players did not stick with what they where coached to do. The Man City game was full of Everton players not up to the performance needed. They where beat before they got on the pitch.

This is the prevailing Culture at Everton and the main drag on progress that Anchelotti is facing. Of course we all would like Everton stalwarts to be part of Everton progression, but their maintained existence season after season is the common denominator of Evertons failure. A Culture maintained by Everton's failure of a Chairman. Actually the current Board is the worse Board Everton has ever had, with a semi detached main shareholder.


We have all seen these familiar Everton patterns. There is a willingness within the Club to except such patterns and even a Culture to work towards them. The only persons that seem in the Club expendable are the Manager and his personnel team.

So next season Ancelotti is facing the same resistance to change. Moyes survived because he was part of the Culture and never was under pressure to progress. He is the last Manager to be in that position. Ancelotti is in that same position pressure wise, but has a reputation to live up to and has a winning mentality. We are now dependent on this and Ancelotti stomach to push for change against a build in Cultural resistance at Everton.

Joe McMahon
367 Posted 24/05/2021 at 07:51:56
Kenny, can you blame them. We have never had a forward with the ball skills ability of Aguero. Forwards like that are rare. They had a spine of Kompany, Silva and Sergio. It's fantasy football and has to be appreciated.

I have excepted that Everton are never going to be a force again, nearly 30 years of PL football for one FA Cup win. A look across the park shows you what winners look like and we unfortunately are on a different planet, as trophy cabinets show. But still we have our songs and stories about history. Absolutely shambolicly run club.

Roman Sidey
368 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:06:49
As a school teacher and dog enthusiast, I believe in swift retribution so the crime is fresh in the brain when punishment is doled. In 2008, a rugby club in Brisbane lost the grand final after a near perfect season. They started their 2009 pre-season training the next day, then won the 2009 Premiership at a canter.

After the season Everton have just had, I geniunely hope that they have training today.

Calvert-Lewin has 9 weeks to learn how to shoot.

Richarlison has 9 weeks to learn how to be physically imposing.

Digne has 9 weeks to find that left boot of his again.

Davies has 9 weeks to learn how to pass forward, shoot and create.

Holgate has 9 weeks to find a new club.

Sigurdsson has 9 weeks to figure out if he wants to play football.

The rest of them have 9 weeks to improve almost every aspect of their game. Every day they spend with their feet up in a chair puts them further and further behind where they think they are as footballers.

Mark Murphy
369 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:14:26
The team that lined up in Silva's last game:

Sidibé Holgate Keane Mina Digne
Iwobi Davies Sigurdsson Richarlison

Liverpool won 5-2. No further comment.

Eddie Dunn
370 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:18:33
Mark- astounding!
Tony Abrahams
371 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:47:42
Interesting Roman, especially the bit about the team that lost the grand final starting their pre-season the very next day. That team were obviously winners, which is a big difference to just being a mere footballer.

Sport is about many things but talent is usually the main ingredient, and whatever way we try and dress it up, Everton don’t have enough talented players in their squad.

Peter Warren
372 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:48:20
Steve Brown 359# - your analogy about fans and what they want and this what happens if you play adventurous makes no sense.

Many have called to be more adventurous at home - our record was about 6 wins and losses (not even draws) to relegated clubs aside aside West Brom. The season was shambolic - thank goodness we had a great start and thank goodness we eeked out a lot of 1-0 wins - a lot undeserved - away from home otherwise could have been a catastrophe.

Robert Tressell
373 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:54:41
Mark @370. Best post on this thread.
Mike Kehoe
374 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:56:36
In recent seasons I have too often been offended by the apathy of many first team performers, those who clearly do not feel any pain in defeat, casual indifference on megabucks. I don’t know why we feel obliged to play out from the back all the time, heart in mouth moments in every game, or why the midfielders first instinct seems always to play backwards rather than looking for a forward pass. I have lost count of the times I have cursed how we end up with the ball finding Pickford from an attacking position.

I don’t really expect Carlo to be the answer to decades of decline, certainly not in the space of a couple of seasons. He has raised the profile of the club and brought in better players than many previous incumbents.

It is my hope that Ferguson will serve his time with an old master and learn his trade well and then take the reins in a few years time. Personally, I feel it is easier to accept defeat when you know the players have given their all, when their pain reflects the pain of the fans.

The mercenaries in the club will prove very expensive to move on.

I was bitterly disappointed by yesterday’s abject submission but I retain a degree of objectivity as I didn’t really expect us to take anything from the game. Looking at the competition we are light years away and truly huge investment is no guarantee of success. As a club we seem to have no identity other plucky little underdogs that never recovered from a body blow in the eighties; an irrelevance now.

I would much rather throw (admittedly other people’s) money at developing an effective youth set up, focus on the long term: I would much rather watch the likes of Dowell or Beningeme than Delph or iwobi.

Phil Lewis
375 Posted 24/05/2021 at 08:58:31
The term 'You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear' seems to be bandied about quite regularly on these pages in reference to the task facing Ancellotti as manager. I beg to disagree. Truly great managers such as Kendal, Clough, Ferguson and Shankly did precisely that. Is it not true that in recent years Ranieri did the same at Leicester? Not only turning them from relegation candidates to champions in two seasons, but also leaving the legacy which sees them remain a potent force in English football today. I urge Evertonians not to be blinded to Ancellotti's shortcomings, simply because he comes with a successful historical pedigree. I am not swayed by his CV.
His tactics are dull to say the least. Based on the evidence so far, also ineffective.
Suited to Serie A perhaps, but not how I wish my team, who I have supported through thick and thin since 1960, to perform.
Rob Halligan
376 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:00:34
Seems that DCL didn’t do too bad after all, regarding the amount of premier league goals he scored, sixteen in total and not a penalty too be seen. Unbelievably, Chelsea’s leading premier league goal scorer, Jorginho, only scored seven, and every single one being a penalty.

Yesterday was a real sickener in terms of the result and performance, but for those, including me, who still harboured European football next season, even if we’d won we still wouldn’t have made Europe because of Spurs winning. A real chance blown, not the champions league because I think that chance went after the drawn home game against Palace, but for the Europa league and certainly this new European conference league, which I think Spurs will be firm favourites to win, with or without Harry Kane. Talking of Harry Kane, should he join Man City this summer, and I think he will, then the premier league might just as well engrave city’s name on the trophy for season 21/22, because they will romp it with his goals.

Dan Nulty
377 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:08:32
Joe, we do have our history. I believe we are more professionally run now than we have been in the Premier league era. We certainly have far more commercial clout than we ever have and bring far more in sponsorship than that clown Elstone ever managed.

Where we have been 'unfortunate' is the people Moshiri has been advised by and backed. Steve Walsh was supposed to be the mastermind behind Leicester's title win having pestered Ranieri to buy Kante. I think we have all seen given Leicester's continued successful recruitment that Walsh had fuck all to do with it, I think his only recommended buy was Sandro and that speaks volumes. Koeman also sanctioned the sale of Lukaku and replaced him with players who would score more goals all over the pitch: Rooney, Klaasen and Gylffi. Failed.

Silva's had to buy was Richarlison and at 50m looks like we have had our pants pulled down currently. Has the potential to come good but I am not convinced as yet.

People have spent Farhad's money as if it wasn't their own, he has been badly advised without doubt. As Mark has pointed out in 370, too many of the same shite are still in the starting line up. That needs to change dramatically if we are ever going to win stuff.

Tony Abrahams
378 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:14:09
Don’t you remember Kendall’s magnificent seven Phil, and I’d also argue that the tools were already in place for Ranieri, to go and do what he did for Leicester, because when that team was top at the Christmas before they won the title, I’m pretty sure they had also won the most points in the calendar year?

Maybe Ancellotti, has just started laying his own base, because let’s face it when he arrived at Everton, there was absolutely no such thing in place.

Alan McGuffog
379 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:15:23
And so, after season upon season of mediocrity and ineptitude we must ponder what lies ahead. Two scenarios open up, encapsulated by the lyrics of the great Lenny Cohen.

At best..." they sentenced me to twenty years or boredom "

At worst " I gave seen the future. It is murder ".
Happy summer to you all !

Paul Burns
380 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:15:55
Disgraceful and, oh, so predictable.

Unready and unprepared, an embarrassing shambles against a team who many thought might be tiptoeing around. Lose when you're expected to.

The sickness at Everton FC will continue for ever if all supporters of the club don't realise how poisonous the unambitious torpor that emanates from the board and infects the players. Money for nothing and yer chicks for free. Pathetic.

Cue news about the new ground to try and stifle dissent.

Ian Pilkington
381 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:21:41
Martin Mason@315

I agree with most of the comments in your post but you are absolutely wrong in believing that relegation would have been the catalyst to positively transform the fortunes of the club.

Relegation at any time during the years of mediocrity under Kenwright’s ownership would have seen the club eventually fall into League 1 without any hope of rescue.

Thomas Richards
382 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:27:25
He most certainly wasnt given a solid base to work from Tony.
He inherited a shambles of a squad. Unbalanced, slow and lacking quality.
If we are looking at challenging top 6 we need to offload a lot of players, easier said than done given the wages they are on.
We have to get away from the "lets not criticise the local, young, inexperienced lads". Time to be ruthless.
Tom and Mason do not have the ability to play in a top 6 side.
Keane same.
Iwobi, Bernard, Gomes, same.
Seamus is another whose time is up. (sickens me to say that but its true)

We can carry on being the pillars of society that we undoubtedly are.Dont compete for any titles but remain everyone's second favourite club.
Or we can get ruthless and progress.

Robert Tressell
383 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:29:39
Phil @376. Ancelotti could be doing much better - totally right. But we hired the wrong man if this job was about turning sows ears into silk purses. We should have stuck with Allardyce, re-signed Moyes or appointed Dyche. None of them have ever won anything - but they could get a crap side up to about 6th.

Also, the era you describe pre-dates me. But I note that in the Premier League there are usually 4 sides with a more expensively assembled second XI than our first XI. How would the likes of Clough have fared with that kind of handicap?

Laurie Hartley
384 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:43:04
John Keating # 278 - they need someone to frighten them. I would let the big fee loose on them during the close season.

Roman Sidney # 369 - I am with you. Some scoffed when I suggested sand dunes training but that is what this lot needs. That would sort them out. Half of them would be on the phone to their agents after a few days of that. I wouldn’t feed most of them.

While I was pondering our latest humiliation my thoughts wandered to “The Battle of Goodison”. I had a worms eye view of Giles launching himself at Sandy Brown on that day. Retribution was swift. Can you imagine some of these players fronting up to the likes of Hunter, Brenner & Co. They are frightened of getting hurt some of them.

Derek Taylor
385 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:46:50
Name one player whose skill level has improved under Ancelotti. DCM ? Maybe, just maybe but the team selection, tactics and substitutions of this revered coach are more Mike Walker than Catterick or Kendall 1.

It will all end in tears. As usual !

Christopher Timmins
386 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:47:00
Well the table does not lie after 38 games and 10th spot is a fair measure of our abilities over the season. If I look at the quality of the teams behind us I suppose Villa are one that might overtake us next year. When I look at the ones who finished above us I am hoping that with a good summer transfer window we might over take West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal and Spurs minus Kane. That's the best case scenario at this stage as we have an unbelievable amount of players that need to be moved on. Year after year of bad transfer business has led to this state of affairs.

It's been a very difficult time for most during the pandemic and every bit of fun and entertainment was to be welcomed. It's a pity that our team provided so little in the past 38 games!

One bright note, I hope my memory is not letting me down,
but did we not take a hiding from City on the last day in 2003/4 before the Euros, lost Rooney in the transfer window and made top 4 in 2004/5 season. Maybe another miracle is just around the corner.

Enjoy the summer folks and hopefully, after a deserved break for us fans, things will look brighter come August.

Brian Harrison
387 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:49:24
Well the next 3 months will be an absolute delight not having to worry about who is fit to play what may happen in the next few games, what team the manager will select. So instead have having a lot of weekends ruined that wont happen for at least 3 months, so just pure enjoyment watching golf, horse racing and yes will probably watch the Euros. Time to recharge the batteries which are pretty low after being put through the ringer again by Everton, and hopefully look forward to a better season.
Dave Abrahams
388 Posted 24/05/2021 at 09:54:39
Let’s see what happens in the summer regarding signings, maybe the squad will change dramatically with players going and coming, a much changed squad might see a different Ancelotti, because up to now he has given little cause for confidence in his ability, since he came to Everton, I’m not interested in his well known past achievements.

Yesterday proved once again that no matter what Carlo asks them to do with his tactics there is no one on the field to dictate to the players how to follow the plans, only Pickford could claim any credit for that non performance, the way Agouro was left in acres of space from the moment he came on was one of many head scratching moments of trying to fathom out what was going on, we looked like we were part of the pantomime to see the crowning of City as champions, stooges not competitors, I was just glad it stayed at 5-0, it could have been a record score for the premier league, a bum fighting a World Champion in boxing terms.

Carlo finally gave the young French kid, Knouknou eighteen minutes of football, the only minutes he has played for any Everton team since before Christmas, he didn’t look too bad did he? Mind you I’m comparing to the rest of the Everton players.

So on to next season, maybe Carlo has been shelving his real plans until he has his own squad, I hope James and Allan, his two big signings are not part of it, or any more over aged and past their best days.

Colin Roberts
389 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:05:05
I still have, after so many years of disappointment, hope that Everton will turn things around. Will this be with Ancelotti? Not sure he sets us up very negatively and this has worked well away from home with a number of 1 - 0 victories. He has not changed the strange apathy that our team has at times, yesterday was dreadful but against a very good team. What happened against Burnley, Sheff.U, Fulham, Newcastle? These are games we should have won and to be honest we did not turn up to play.

For me we have a number of steps to take;

Clear out the players who are just not up to the task and these have been listed by many of us above.

Instil a sense of pride to be playing for Everton, a desire not to lose and to fight to the end of a game. We can do it, we did it against Man.U.

Before we go out and spend/waste a lot more money develop a game plan then get players that suit that plan. If it is sitting back and defending then hitting teams on the break we need guys who are a bit faster than those we have and defenders who can see the situation and play the ball forwards.

We need players who can at least know what colour shirts we are playing in and not just constantly give the ball away to the opposition.

Let's hope we get some action in the close season

Tony Everan
390 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:07:26
What should concern us more than the league position of 10th is the direction of travel. As a team we are not gelling and getting better, we are regressive.

The best football at the start of the season was 8 or 9 months ago. In 2021 apart from a one or two blips the quality football has been appalling. Not many goals, not creating many decent chances and not seeing any joined up play. We don’t have any identity or playing style, it seems like a disorganised free for all when we cross the white line. I’ve often seen much better quality football from lesser teams and squads since Christmas.

We should be asking the questions, “ is it just about the players ? Will recruitment on its own fix the problems ? Or do the problems run deeper ; training methods?, cosy family club culture?, lack of professionalism and ruthlessness at all levels in pursuit of improvement ?

I want an end to us being a passive club and start making things happen rather than sitting back and reacting to the latest malaise.

Nobody at the club should be going on holiday, or resting or recharging batteries. Today should be a day for pressing the reset button on what Everton FC is. A professional football club that exists primarily to win football matches. No thought should be given to anything else until we are achieving that.

Roman Sidey
391 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:08:07
Laurie, thanks for the reply, but there's no 'n' in my surname. Haha.

Tony, the team was Brothers Rugby Club (spit) and they are a club that expects to be competing for the titles every year. It's amazing what that mentality can do to the fabric of a team.

Ken Williams
392 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:08:48
Don't know about a burnt orange sash down the front of the shirt, this team should of had a yellow streak down the back of the shirt, talk about rolling over, the team have been a constant embarrassment to the club. There is something wrong that is deeply routed in the club, until this is identified and corrected the club will remain a mid table side. The club need to start with the coaching staff, they don't seem to be able to coach the basics. With the current set up I am not expecting next season to be any better.
Phil Teece
393 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:12:29
I wonder how many people on here are - like me - indulging in some introspection about this very disappointing end to the season and wondering whether we know quite as much about the game as we think we do. When the question of a new manager was a live issue, many of us were contemptuous, even vicious, in rejecting the mere thought of David Moyes for the job. Yet to had served Everton well, better than most of his successors and with far fewer resources available to him. Now he has taken West Ham to four places and six points above us with a far superior goal difference. Time we all swallowed a large slice of humble pie?
Brian Murray
394 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:15:18
We would like to know, well I would, if Carlo knows or even cares what he’s surrounded by as the fabric of the club. He either never came across a club like ours or as I say is naive to it all and the internal opposition he faces. It might be over reacting but I honestly think people at the club don’t want or can handle us being a success and dealing with that type of player. ( winners )
Jason Leung
395 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:16:21
I thank all that is holy that this season is over.
I, for a long time, think that it is the players that are the issue here. They are taking the club for a ride knowing they will get paid no matter how they perform. And Sigurdsson is the biggest culprit, a long with Iwobi, Bernard, Gomes, Davies and Holgate. They don't give a pigs ass if they lose.
You put the others in a top team, ie Richarlison, Allan, Godfrey and even DCL, you watch them thrive.

That, in my opinion, is the issue, too many players that don't give flying toss for the shirt. We pay overs to get players to join and they take the piss.

Ken Kneale
396 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:17:50
Carlo needs to start doing his business with greater urgency
- he has been most complacent in my view - his half season takeover should have convinced him of the (lack of) character and competence within this club at all levels - the Liverpool FA cup game gave most of us heartbreak and nightmare combined which is still ongoing but was typical of the levels of performance and commitment that have characterised many similar performances since.

Without the early season games and a fair number of wins away from home that bore a degree of good fortune, we would have been firmly mired in a lower table battle.

Carlo is living on past glories and that does not interest me and it seems the players are simply not responding to his instructions either on the training field or from the sidelines during a match.

I am starting to lose faith in him and lost faith in Brands a long time ago - we say it all too often at this club but a very big summer does await and both Carlo and Marcel Brands need to do a substantial amount more for their money in my view - Carlo's comments about being 'satisfied' hit a very hollow note for sure.

Pete Clarke
397 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:17:56
This is nowhere near the worst squad I have ever seen. We have seen this very same squad play decent football albeit in the very early stages of the season. So what has happened??

These are all professional footballers who have come through all of the academies at top-level clubs. Forget the wages they are on for a minute, but there has to be qualities in each and every player that a manager can bring out and my feeling is that Ancelotti may be leaving the training and drills to somebody else whilst he walks his dog along Crosby beach.

He can't be allowed to throw the whole squad under the bus. He has to be able to drag everything out of them and instill his knowledge of the game into them. There are other managers doing it within lesser squads than ours. We pay him a fortune to be able to do that.

He has to step up because, if it's only elite players he wants at his disposal, then we are in for a very torturous time over the next season or so. He also has to be directly responsible for any players coming in because it's too easy to wash your hands if they are not your players.

Moshiri is as guilty as anybody because I see no leadership from him. Firing Kenwright would be a start. He needs to make a statement of some kind about the football side of the club and what he expects from the manager and players alike.

I'm sick to my stomach with the poor management and shit-show this season and although I know a few of the players are average, I also know that in our own history we have done great things with squads of mixed abilities.

Tony Waring
398 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:29:08
Anything I intended to highlight has already been said but there is one question which maybe someone can answer:

How is it that all the Man City players – including their second XI – can receive the ball anywhere on the pitch and seemingly anywhere on their body at whatever velocity it is delivered and still manage to control it and send it to land unerringly at the feet of a team mate, who is invariably in space and able to move forward?

All of them are always it seems in space – they should all be sent to Cape Canaveral! In short, they are a fabulous team to watch and I for one had no expectations of us getting a sniff of anything.

Steve Hogan
399 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:30:39
I see the Everton PR machine is in full flow this morning on the official site, lauding our 100% home record (when the crowd was allowed), and noting the improved playing record compared to the 2019-20 season.

Clutching at straws comes to mind, but probably expected from the club's perspective. More alarming is the passivity of the club's owner who seems to accept the fact that the current Chairman and CEO have spunked upwards of half a billion of his money on a team and consecutive managers with little sign of the team being in with a realistic chance of competing for the game's honours.

Having spent quite a few years in industry and commerce, I'm astounded the current incumbents have remained intact, without a whisper of a question mark being posed about their ability to 'change' the current culture of 'mediocrity' which pervades the club.

Meanwhile, the club's 'landmark' signing is allowed to jump ship two games before the season ends, without having the good grace to at least walk around the pitch (injury apart) at the end of the Wolves game, and thank those fans, particularly the kids, present, who attended the game.

What a PR gesture if he had been able to hand out a few tee-shirts to those present in view of the abject performances this season.

Meanwhile, our CEO makes a bizarre statement prior to the final game 'saying we have made real progress' on the field in the last 12 months.

We need radical change off the field as well as on it.

Len Hawkins
400 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:36:10
Surely in future player contracts, there must be a clause regarding Skill Commitment and Fighting for the Everton Cause. If these are not shown (with the exception of injury) on a regular basis, the club have the right to terminate the contract and offer the player for sale with none of the fee going to player or agent.

I am sick of seeing £Multimillionaire players who can't be bothered trying and offer no apology when they have a stinker. If they just want to go through the motions, perhaps a job in the sewers would suit them better.

Eddie Dunn
401 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:37:03
Tony, our players have looked incapable of joined-up play – it seems they lack the basics of teamwork.

The excuses of Carlo not having had enough windows are not good enough. There are teams in the Premier League below us who play as a team. It seems we have lots of individuals. It is up to the coach to instill teamwork.

Surely this team can play better; indeed, earlier in the season, the same lads performed better. There has been a loss of confidence at the club. I wonder what the dressing-room atmosphere is like?

Whatever Carlo is trying to do, it isn't working, and my worry is that our form has dropped off a cliff.

Martin Berry
402 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:52:46
Eddie 402#
My thoughts exactly.
I like Carlo as a human being but the facts are that he brought in four players in the last summer window to make us more competitive, we weren't.
He is talking about upgrades to the squad, well this will be interesting, however if he doesnt get the players hungry,fit and organised then the upgrades will have little impact like the four previous ones.
The record shows we lost nine games at home, four against the bottom five clubs in the Prem, totally unacceptable and a disgrace. Yes the away wins were welcomed but not emphatic and the football has been unexciting and labored, its is probably a blessing for the Manager and team that the fans were not at Goodison as they would have not put up with what was on offer.
Carlo has another season with Moshiri and I really hope he turns things around but I just don't see it due to what has obviously been lacking on the training ground.
Paul A Smith
403 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:59:06
Under Brands, we have signed Iwobi, Mina, Gomes, Delph, Bernard, Sidibé and a few that have been half reliable and some people are on about tactics and Kenwright.

Standing still and selective judgements are useless to us.

Derek Thomas
404 Posted 24/05/2021 at 10:59:08
At the end of Season 2019-20, we all mostly knew we needed a midfield. So we bought one. It lasted 8 or 10 weeks.

Mr Marcel "I paid good money for Iwobi... and Kean, Delph, Sidibé" Brands – We still need a midfield... try and get one that doesn't crap out before the clocks go back this time.

Sam Hoare
405 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:02:41
A very grim end to the season. For the last 2-3 months, we have looked bereft of energy, form, heart, skill and belief.

I think confidence has been a big factor and it seems to have drained out of us somewhere along the road. You could see yesterday that all the Man City players wanted the ball. They were always moving into space.

Whenever one of our players has the ball, it too often seems that his teammates are not showing for the ball, not moving intelligently and the result is that a pass is forced and we lose possession. We need players who want the ball and have the energy and dynamism and intelligence to be constantly showing for it.

Hard to know how to apportion blame to the players or the coaches but both take a fair share. People want us to sell 10 players or so; I'm sure Brands would love to do that but shifting deadwood is likely to prove even harder this summer than ever before, and therefore it's highly probable that many of the likes of Gomes, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Delph, Iwobi, Bernard etc will remain on the books.

4 good new players could help. A right-winger with pace who can score goals, a dynamic right-back who can overlap and put in dangerous crosses, a central-midfielder who can carry and pass the ball forward, and perhaps even a central-defender who can play a high line a distribute well.

The quality of player we can attract may be diminished by us finishing 10th rather than 6th or 7th but it's down to Brands to find us the next Pedro Neto, Reece James, Ndidi and Fofana.

Tony Abrahams
406 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:04:00
It's what I've been questioning on another thread, Eddie. I agree that whatever Ancelotti is trying to do isn't working but, when we were playing defensive football, he was at least getting results.

I thought that we would play 4-5-1 yesterday, even when I saw the team sheet. After acknowledging that we have only won twice out of 15 games when not starting out trying to play a defensive game, “losing to all the bottom teams in the process”, you do wonder what his motives were yesterday? This considering we were playing the best team in the country, and have already fallen short against them twice, whilst playing our best formation, which is unfortunately a defensive game.

Steve Brown
407 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:07:27
Mark @ 370, your line-up for Silva's final game in the 5-2 defeat to Liverpool says it all! Eight of the eleven starters from that team also started the 5-0 hammering yesterday. It might have been nine if Mina had been passed fit.

Ancelotti has had one summer transfer window to sign new players. This is a big rebuilding job and there are a large number of players – internationals or not – who have proven in the last 2-3 years that they don't have the quality to take this club forward.

Geoff Williams
408 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:16:57
The players have been found wanting this season. Some have confirmed what many of us already knew – that they are simply not up to the job – while others struggled to find their form after injuries.

For me, the biggest disappointment has been the performance of the manager. He has lacked consistency in team selection and tactics. No matter what system he decides upon, whether it be 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-3-1-2, there seems to a genuine lack of structure to the play and an understanding of their role by the players.

TWers often complain about us playing with three 'holding' players but I contest that none of them actually plays a holding role protecting the centre of the defence, filling in for centre-backs, pushing forward etc. I just can't see him turning things around – no matter who he brings in.

Tony Abrahams
409 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:20:59
Do you know why I go on about Kenwright, Paul A? Because we haven’t won a trophy for 26 years, and when players like Rodriguez join our club, we have stories in the press about our chairman getting on the phone telling them about the Everton way.

If it’s true that Koeman wasn’t allowed to bring in Sammy Lee, what impression do you think it must have had on a mercenary like Ronald?

The club needs revamping from the top down imo, and whilst I agree Brands has got a few wrong, he does look to be revamping the system underneath the first team squad, and seems to be trying to take away a few of the comfort zones that appear to run right through Everton FC.

Thomas Richards
410 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:24:01
Given the absolute crap we have watched for many, many years what made people think Ancelotti could turn it around in one full season?
Paul A Smith
411 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:33:01
Koeman wasn't allowed Sammy Lee but Allardyce was? Tony, I cannot be arsed with gossip and don't know why anyone wastes energy on it.

I wasn't even reading your posts, I just notice how often the poor Kenwright joke or boring old line is mentioned throughout the thread.

How many semis and quarters have we bottled it in games we were supposed to be the stronger side, Tony?

I am shocked at the lack of perspective on here from people who are generally mature and well experienced enough to use perspective.

I'd talk with you all day, Tony, you seem sound but not over gossip. Mortgages and trainsets etc.

We went into a semi against the shite a few seasons back, favourites to win and looking great in the league... Did we show all of our team a picture of Kenwright that day?

George Cumiskey
412 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:35:45
People on here saying we got better results when we played defensive football? I can't remember us playing any other way, whether at home or away it all looked exactly the same to me. Maybe I'm wrong and someone could tell me about all the attacking games we played.
Dave Abrahams
413 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:36:47
Thomas (411),

I don't think many of us did think Carlo could quickly turn it around. We did expect improvement in tactics and motivation at least, not to mention fitness levels. I can't see much improvement, to be honest, in any of those levels.

As I said in a post above, maybe he has other plans for next season with a few changes in the squad, the more the better.

Thomas Richards
414 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:44:01
We need plenty, Dave.
Nick Bower
415 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:48:38
Hopefully Spurs and the rest of the six get a hefty points deduction in the next few weeks
Nick Page
416 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:53:15
I said we'd get 10th and there we finished. Rank average... in fact, had the season started later and gone on, we would have been in a relegation battle for sure, given how crap and utterly stale we were.

It's been largely the same stuff served up, week-in & week-out, for 25 years, give or take a season or two, but this latest drudgery has been a constant since we failed to sign anyone after Martinez's first season (excluding loans). Different managers, different players.

The only thing that will alter this is a wholesale change in mindset from the top down. Because being fucking nice, and having a charity and hiring ex players etc etc etc doesn't fucking win you football matches. So, until he's gone and his cronies with him, don't expect to be challenging for anything soon.

And I wouldn't even expect that, given the complicity of the support base, who have become so accustomed to mediocrity under this management, they can no longer see the wood for the trees. What a sad and sorry state of affairs – a completely rank average, pointless football club that simply makes up the numbers but loves to give itself a pat on the back because it apparently does things well... except where it really counts.

John Keating
417 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:53:23
Derek @386,

I think one player who has vastly improved this season is Pickford. From a total knobhead who instilled zero confidence in the defence, jumping about all over the place, he has certainly settled down over the season.

I think Ancelotti bringing in and rotating Olsen with Pickford has certainly made him focus. I have to admit I was really having doubts about Pickford as our Number 1 but, as the season has progressed, for me, he has been one that I've not been concerned about – it's the rest of them!!!

Tony Abrahams
418 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:54:41
Why do you think that's gossip, Paul A? Sammy Lee was an instrumental member of Koeman's team at Southampton, and being a scouser, it didn't make much sense when he never came with him, in my eyes, mate. A mercenary like Koeman probably thought "What kind of professional outfit am I coming to here?" That is my genuine take on this.

It sickens me Paul, the Everton way? Imagine what a world famous footballer must genuinely think when he hears such bollocks.

That semi-final, I've said it before, but we only lost that game because of the mentality of the manager and his captain imo mate, and after coming out of the Stadium of Light having witnessed arguably the greatest backing I've ever heard Everton get (definitely in the top three), I had a vision of the Guinness advert, and the word “believe”.

I thought the only way we wouldn't beat Liverpool is if we didn't believe in ourselves. I actually told my mate who was close to Alan Stubbs, that I wanted to talk to Stubbsy. “What for?” He asked, and I told him it was because I wanted him to ask Moyes if I could do the team talk at Wembley.

So we never beat Liverpool because I never got to do the team talk... Although that's just a load of shite, I think it's only us Evertonians who really understand Everton Football Club. If I'd wasted half the money that Moshiri has spent, I would definitely be looking to revamp the museum.

Nick Page
419 Posted 24/05/2021 at 11:57:56
Tony A – 100% bang on.
Andrew Clare
420 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:01:58
I just hope that we have a good strategy for incoming transfers this summer. Buying players who are injury-prone or nearing age 30 or over should not be considered. Up-and-coming young players should be the main targets, players who are hungry for success.

My main worry is that we haven't seen any signs of the team playing in a certain style, as you would expect after a year of being coached by a new manager. So far, we have just seen grim defensive displays away from home and home displays that are a complete shambles. All of it, whether home or away, has been dreadful to watch.

Can it really be the players' fault? After all, they are nearly all international footballers for their respective countries.

Changing managers every 5 minutes is not the answer but so far I haven't seen anything impressive about the current incumbent.

Take Leeds for example. The impact that Marcelo Bielsa has had is enormous, I would have expected the same from Ancelotti. The Leeds players aren't any better than ours but, boy, look at the way they play – they are not frightened of anybody.

Mybe we have got a major problem that runs right through the club?

David Midgley
421 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:02:55
John 249. A bit harsh on the penguins.

Stan. 317 Leeds are above us and deservedly so. Big spenders?

Many heartfelt posts. Painful. When Goodison had supporters back, people posted how they were all behind Carlo. They could see what he was trying to do. I've been waiting for a season and a half to see what he's trying to do...

Posters saying it's not the manager's fault. Whose is it? The players? If they aren't good enough and will never improve, get rid of them, whether they are local or not.

In his first half-season, he should have had them fitter and a lot more organized. Sheffield United came up, fast, direct, and playing as a team. Leeds the same.

I'm disappointed in Carlo and his team.

I would have thought that he, his son et al would have realized that they couldn't go out and buy a load of players but would have tried to get the best out of what they had. Sadly, it didn't happen. I don't think it will.

Every Blue supporter could see we needed a right-back and at least two forwards. It was never addressed. We don't have any pattern or any style.

Like many, I've been a Blue for over 60 years, many read but don't post. I've seen good, bad and indifferent. This is draining my spirit.

I'm not paid millions to solve the problem. I hope our current management team can; however, I doubt it.

Something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Paul A Smith
422 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:23:15
Tony, why would we stop him coming with Koeman who cost us millions to bring in, but he was allowed to come with Allardyce?

It makes no sense whatsoever and Koeman brought his brother, remember. Do you think not having Sammy Lee in tow helped Koeman sort his brother out?

John Boswell
423 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:45:31
Everton FC is in my DNA so now, after a disappointing end to the season, I look forward to a busy summer of player dealing to reshuffle and improve the squad.

I anticipate some shocks on the outs and a surprise among the incoming. I am not claiming to be in the know but I believe that Carlo knows who he can use going forward, players that can cope with a change of shape during a game. He will have identified the character of player that he needs and the remainder will be contacting their agents to find a new club.

There you have it, a died-in-the-wool Blue, glass half-full and keeping the faith. I sincerely wish all Blues a happy and safe summer and I look forward to rubbing shoulders with you next season at Goodison. COYB.

Stephen Brown
424 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:48:51
June 2020
We need to get rid of Iwobi, Bolasie, Besic, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Keane as they are not good enough and chokers.
Seamus has been a great servant but legs are gone. We need a new right back
We need pace and goals from midfield. Give Carlo time and he will sort this out ! Big summer for Brands!

May 2021
We need to get rid of Iwobi, Bolasie, Besic, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Keane as they are not good enough and chokers.
Seamus has been a great servant but legs are gone. We need a new right back
We need pace and goals from midfield. Give Carlo time and he will sort this out ! Big summer for Brands!

May 2022
We need to get rid of Iwobi, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Keane as they are not good enough and chokers.
Seamus has been a great servant but legs are gone. We need a new right back
We need pace and goals from midfield. Give Carlo time and he will sort this out ! Big summer for Brands!

Derek Cowell
425 Posted 24/05/2021 at 12:57:15
Before yesterday's game I felt like posting what I thought was going to happen. My prediction was a 5-0 humiliating embarrassment with Aguero getting a hattrick. I expected Cuty to play a second string team and that we would play a full supporting role in enhancing their end of season party.

I did not submit the post as such posts get slammed on here for showing negativity.

In hindsight I was pretty much spot on, except for City's line up, which was a surprise. Aguero would have got his 3 but for Pickford. Although in my prediction's defence I did expect he was going to play from the start in his farewell game.

To my knowledge we have rolled over now at champions' parties at Arsenal, Leicester and City. We are utterly unprofessional in everything we do concerning football and I think that the people running the club have forgotten what our principal reason for being actually is!

We are a laughing stock.

Some people on here are looking forward to next season. I am realistically just expecting more of the same shite we have served up for knocking on for 30 odd years! At least where is the evidence that it won't be?!

Frustrating and exasperating, the Everton way!

Sorry but I am really pissed off with the lot of them!

Stan Schofield
426 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:02:41
Regarding the home form. It’s well-known that Goodison is one of the toughest grounds for opposition players to play at, as many such have said in the past. This is because of the crowd of passionate Evertonians, which has given Goodison the monikers of ‘bear pit’ and ‘fortress’. In the past, our home form has generally been spot on as a result.

With the absence of crowds, it’s simple common sense that Goodison will lose much of that ‘bear pit’ character, and that the difference will be greater than for most other grounds. All teams’ home form has been affected this season, and it is no surprise that Everton’s has been affected more than most.

This factor has to be accounted for in assessing our finishing position of 10th. Perhaps this factor should provide some perspective on the disappointing end to the season.

Tony Abrahams
427 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:16:37
Erwin Koeman was also his assistant at Southampton, Paul A. I think Moshiri panicked when going for Allardyce, and I’m glad he let him bring Sammy Lee, with him, (loads of Evertonians were livid) if I’m being honest, because of his professionalism.
Barry Jones
428 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:22:48
Woy's fwee.
Stan Schofield
429 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:25:42
David@422: What the fuck have Leeds got to do with it? They are shite as well, midtable mediocre like us. And like us, they’ll at best stay that way unless they spend mega-amounts like City and Chelsea. That’s the bottom line.

But Leeds don’t have the hype like we do. We keep wanting to be elite, at the very top, but we don’t spend anywhere near enough to achieve that.

If Moshiri’s ‘project’ is simply staying midtable in the PL, then the expenditure on players fits that. But if the ‘project’ is getting to the top, it’s a different matter.

Danny O’Neill
430 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:27:46
I'm still not talking to them Derek (426). It's like having a row with the wife and needing that stand off period. I can't read anything about them other than the views on here.

Still taking time out and gathering my thoughts on the season. Not the worst team I've seen in the context of a season, and sadly not even the worse performance or result. Those Arsenal ones stick in the mind, especially the one where the poor Evertonian got caught on camera asleep having given up. And I don't even think that was the 7-0 one. And lets not even start with the 5-0 Derby defeat at Goodison in my youth. Distraught and inconsolable with that one.

But my word that was shocking even if City are a joy to watch in world football right now.

Missed opportunity in a season of many missed opportunities. But all I can do is look forward to next season.

I just need a few days to get that out of my very hurt system. Everton not in Europe and Schalke in Bundesliga 2. Off to console with the dogs again. They're looking at me and they nod agreeingly at my every word. It helps.

Colin Malone
432 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:47:05
First job on the agenda, is to sort the academy / under 21's.
Let's get a proper structure in place. We can all see it's not working. I do believe good young footballers aren't getting a chance, unless they can lump the ball upfield.
I watched Ellis Simms for Blackpool, All I saw a footballer was coached footballer who can win headers, nothing more.
Okay it was only one game and I hope the proves me wrong. Theres no-one coming through.
Any coach who goes to a club for a long stay, puts their structure in place. As of now, Carlo has done nothing.
Kieran Kinsella
433 Posted 24/05/2021 at 13:55:59

I read an interview with Koeman where he said that he wanted to bring Sammy but Sammy himself and Kenwright told him the fans would never accept that. Obviously that seems silly in hindsight but maybe Sam was a tougher negotiator and or Koeman was largely focused on his wage

Steavey Buckley
434 Posted 24/05/2021 at 14:14:19
The Everton under 23 team is a waste of time because they do not get to play with and against more experienced players. It is best to buy the best young talent to make the Everton 1st team squad and loan the rest out to championship teams. Then when they come back after a season on loan to decide whether to keep them, sell them or loan them out again. It appears this is what Chelsea do with their talented younger players.
Tony Abrahams
435 Posted 24/05/2021 at 14:17:37
Koeman to Sammy Lee, what the fuck am I joining here scouse? It’s a good job they are paying me an absolute fortune, because the chairman, who loves to go on about the Everton way, said the fans won’t accept an ex Liverpool player.

Sammy- He’s probably right Ronald, so you’re best just getting on with it, considering the money they’re paying you mate.

All’s I’m saying is that if I was part of the negotiation team, I’d have “demanded” Sammy Lee came with Koeman, because he had been part of his back room staff at Southampton, because of his professionalism, and because he’s been involved in top level football for most of his life.

Don Alexander
436 Posted 24/05/2021 at 14:39:34
To me, getting Koeman with or without Sammy Lee misses the point. The one guy Southampton had as vice-chairman and Head of Football Development was Les Reed, formerly a manager in his own right. He's the guy responsible for all the excellent signings Southampton made year on year, and the huge sales that followed. As ever, those at the top of our club got it all wrong, again.
Tom Bowers
437 Posted 24/05/2021 at 14:52:35
Let's be honest, the Top 4 or 5 clubs are streets ahead of the rest for different reasons but, even if it was just money, you would still need the guile of a good manager and backroom staff to get the tactical edge and team spirit for the whole season – give or take a game or two.

Everton have shown an amazing lack of this for the most part and every game was a game to lose because they really were a shambles at times.

Sigurdsson's awful penalty put the kibosh on his awful season and it is time to get rid of players like him who just don't do what it takes in the midfield areas. If Tom Davies had a turn of speed, I would say he would be the only one I would keep because of his work ethic... but the rest I would gladly accept bids for.

Finishing 10th has to go down as a big failure on the part of Carlo and his staff and I seriously question if he has anything more to offer than what we have witnessed already.

Thomas Richards
438 Posted 24/05/2021 at 15:17:29
Tom @438,

"If Tom Davies had a turn of speed, I would say he would be the only one I would keep."

He hasn't got a turn of speed. Do you want him to leave?

Dan Nulty
439 Posted 24/05/2021 at 15:27:31

Bolasie and Walcott are gone, contracts expired.

Dan Nulty
440 Posted 24/05/2021 at 15:28:17
Besic's contract expired as well?
Dan Nulty
441 Posted 24/05/2021 at 15:29:53
Just checked and I think the contracts for Bolasie, Walcott and Besic expire, saving us an unbelievable £10.6M per season.
Derek Taylor
442 Posted 24/05/2021 at 15:49:04
Stephen Brown at 425,

What recent evidence are you relying on to show that Carlo is capable of sorting out this mess? A lot of it is of his own making and the final table position indicates he has lost his magic touch with a vengeance.

Clueless team selection, outdated tactics, and weird and wonderful substitutions is all most of us can make of it... but perhaps some are misguided by his avowed love of Crosby. A clever tactic, that!

Craig Walker
443 Posted 24/05/2021 at 17:09:28
I love Everton FC, like we all do but every passing mediocre season and catalogue of disappointments makes me question why it is I devote too many hours in the day thinking about, arguing over and caring about this club. When I boil it down, I feel privileged that I remember 4 or 5 memorable seasons in my time supporting this club. Younger fans don’t even have that. Even in the glorious mid 80s, we lost 2 cup finals and threw away the title at Oxford United.

For years I thought we could get back to the summit of English football but with each false dawn, we just seem further away from ever achieving anything. I feel a complete mug for thinking during this season that we were on our way. Why couldn’t I see that we still had an awful lot of players who let us down last season? We’re too sentimental as a club. Gomes had a nasty injury but he’ll come good. Seamus is a great servant. Kenwright is one of us, Brands gave Moise’s mum a shirt, we’re great In the Community etc. etc. Who, out of our squad would get into a top 4 team? Godfrey, possibly? Few others would.

We’ll launch a new kit though and I’ll probably part with my cash. We’ll have a few marquee signings and I’ll start thinking “he’s what we’ve lacked for years”. I’ll watch Deadline Day and see that promising player we were linked with stay where he was. We’ll win a few games in the sunshine and I’ll start believing. After Christmas, we’ll come down with the decorations and be arguing on TW. We’ll probably crash out of both cups ignominiously and after Easter and play like the players are already on the beach.


It’s the hope that kills you. The thought of the one derby game or season you turn your back on being the turning point. It’s like a drug but is terrible for my mental well-being.

What will change this summer though?

Bill Gall
444 Posted 24/05/2021 at 17:13:37
With Moyes we may not have had any money but we had stability. Since he has left in 2013 over the next 7 years we have had 5 new managers with 3 interim managers,. Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and Ancelotti. with Royle, Unsworth and Ferguson as interim. Now can someone tell me how Everton have a stable football team. ?
Every new manager tried to get rid of some players and bought other players. The next manager done the same buy players and try to sell players bought by the previous manager not always successful. and this has gone on for over the last 7 years.
So do you keep the present manager, and see if with help from the director of football they can change it around. ? or do you go for someone else and hope he can turn it around without having a bad season, where in 2 seasons supporters will want a change ?
We have to get stability to get success, we have financial backing, we have plans for a new stadium, we need a director of football and a manager to bring the stability to the football side of things. So to fire the ones we have would be a big mistake to just continue the pattern from 2013.
We have had a number of high profile manager in the last number of years where they that bad or where we demanding to much success from them and not giving them a chance.
There has to come a time for someone to be given time to build a team and not hire someone and hope for instant success.
Paul A Smith
445 Posted 24/05/2021 at 17:48:26
Tom Davies will always be a good Everton squad player. We need a squad.

Just because he has struggled at times and doesn't match the skill of Pogba doesn't mean he can't be an important squad player.

Craig Walker brilliant post. Just be realistic mate its not half as painful and while people are waiting for Gomes Siggurdson and Holgate to become what they are hyped as, you'll be wide awake.

Best thing to do is, not pretend you know what the tactics were, don't moan about the side until the game is over and don't hype one or two good performances from any player.

And if you are defending a player who is playing shite, compare him to someone good, not someone else who is also playing shite for us.

Martin Mason
446 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:00:19
It's possible that as low as 4 new players could turn us into a top 6 club. The chances of us being able to buy 4 players of the required calibre are around minus zero so my view is that we'll get two and be challenging for the 7-8 position. Can Carlo work magic and improve us without the 4? My view is that he has now shown that he can't, he just isn't that person so I can see next year us haemorrhaging cash and the spirit at the club going into free fall. We can't and must not under any circumstances sack another manager so the only chance of major change is Carlo walking and that won't happen. the future looks black, what we needed was momentum toward improvement at the end of this season and what we got was momentum toward oblivion and little hope. What I see now is an existential threat to Everton where we have wasted millions and stayed still. If Moshiri calls it a day and takes his money elsewhere and we lose the new Stadium then there is no low limit of where we will end up. That may be our destiny.
Thomas Richards
447 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:03:36
Paul A.

Not comparing him to Pogba.
Comparing him to the likes of Mount, Foden, Gilmour.
All younger than Tom and all far better players.
If we want to progress these types are the players we want.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure as an Everton fan than seeing a team full of young scousers.
We cant be blinded by that.

Kieran Kinsella
448 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:07:00

"What I see now is an existential threat to Everton,"

Lucky no one mentioned the dirty fork

Paul A Smith
449 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:07:25
Martin this is why I believe no europe will benefit us. No way could we push the top four and win a european trophy.

The odds don't favour it at all and only a miracle could make that happen .The points you have made about transfers are hard to argue with and that is another reason we don't need a massive fixture list of inconsistant kick off times.

Its sad really but football has made it this way. The elite has made it this way. I'd hate us to become a europa side that struggles to make the top 7 and the balance will never shift if clubs our size can't upset the top 4.

And it'll be 5 from this league soon enough. We need to crack that code.

Thomas not having a go mate or suggesting who you compare him to but balance and perspective should be the outcome and i have no doubt he could be a good squad player.

Caraboa cup and games v the bottom sides where we need to rest players.

Thomas Richards
450 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:15:34
Paul A.

I know you weren't mate.
You don't post in that manner.

I hope I'm wrong re Tom. 👍

Jamie Crowley
451 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:15:52
I'm going to throw this out there, as I seemingly can't quit the heroine that is TW.

After watching our second half of the season slide, and frankly just being furious since the Brighton game, I've reflected. The disappointment and frustration are still very, very real.

Here it comes - BUT!

We're in good hands people. We are.

We have an owner who has spared no expense chasing success and the footy dream. Finch Farm, the Liver Building, player acquisitions, managerial appointments, a new stadium plan and project, all of it. Moshri has dumped a small fortune into this Club. He's committed a hell of a lot of money and resources to our success. I honestly believe he will continue to do so.

We have a very, very successful manager. One who represents our Club as a gentleman and we should be proud of. He's made mistakes. But in the main he's done his level best with what's at his disposal.

I can't see anyone associated with Everton not doubling down and being less than 100% committed to turn this ship into a well oiled machine.

Let's give Brands the summer, back our owner who's done nothing less than back the Club in every single department, and give our manager the summer and another season to right the ship.

We, despite the disappointment and abject dross of the last few months, do NOT have a poor core of players. We will invest, of that I have NO doubt, and look to improve. Carlo can have another season to stamp his image on this Club. He wants to play more attractive, attacking football. He has an owner and a DOF who will try like hell to get him what he wants. We have a DOF who wants to buy young and wants sell-on value in my opinion.

The dark clouds are there. It's raining. But I think they'll part. There's too many talented individuals in decision making positions for the sun not to shine in the future.

That's my take.

It could still get worse. But the comforting thing is, with this trio of management in Moshri, Brands, and Ancelloti, the odds are in our favor long term.

I truly believe the above, having given it far too much thought the last 24 or so hours.

I'm going to keep the faith in no small part down to the fact that our leadership "team" is one that I'm confident will not rest until they see success.

Paul A Smith
452 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:22:31
I don't think he is good enough to be holding the midfield in big games either Thomas and I think Ancelotti has protected him to an extent this season.

He has been pretty open about the home form and I can't imagine any manager really that would want a youngster learning about defeat every other game.

Ideally, younger players looking to make an impression should be coming into a side thats bubbling with confidence.

Davies hasn't had much of that since he made his debut but there are times he should have also seized the opportunity better.

He should be believing he is better than Allan if he wants to play every week. Has he got that belief?

At the moment he is best kept quiet and helping the squad in my opinion and hopefully more quality comes in and he pushes on a bit.

Ian Edwards
453 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:27:08
Just back from work to find Ancelotti still hasn't been sacked. It would appear that shite, losing football is going to be carried into a third season.

Thomas Richards
454 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:27:27
Nothing would give me greater pleasure in football if he developed into a top player, Paul. Rooney, Reid etc. Nothing better than watching local lads starring in a Blue shirt.
Martin Mason
455 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:29:38
No Ian, your pathetic single issue whining will carry on for another season, that's all to the detriment of TW.
Danny O’Neill
456 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:32:20
Key word there, Paul A Smith, is squad. We need a squad. That is what's hurt us. We have a decent team (when fit), but not a squad.

Tom Davies for me is definitely a player who can be a valuable member of an Everton squad.

Brent Stephens
457 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:36:23
“Just back from work to find Ancelotti still hasn't been sacked”

Deluded if you think he’s about to be sacked! How naive.

Martin Mason
459 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:37:47
Why do Everton need enemies in the football world when it has its fans to do the work?
Ian Edwards
463 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:46:44
Martin. You may enjoy us winning one home game since Xmas, dropping from 2nd to 10th while playing utterly dreadful football. That's to the detriment of the club having fans putting up with such shite. You might have forgotten the Club's motto. I haven't.
Joe McMahon
464 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:48:23
Ian, are you serious? Even if Mosh wanted too, it would cost millions to do it. We have to stick with Carlo for now, our stock is low.
Derek Cowell
466 Posted 24/05/2021 at 18:53:52
Craig at 444. In the 80s it was even worse than you said. From 84 to 89 we lost 4 cup finals and threw away a double. Ok we won 2 titles, an fa cup and a euro trophy but we still lost alot and 4 of those trophies were to the RS, which for me at the time was gutting and tarnished all the wins. For me 86 was the worst season as a supporter.

Athletico Madrid have lost 2 Champions League finals to Real, including 1 thrown away. I don't know how their fans could ever come back from that locally.

Blimey it's hard to be a blue. As someone pointed out earlier we've had relatively few great seasons, about 10 for me, since and including 66 when I first became Everton aware

I guess I was tricked as a naive kid to expect unbridled success and once you are sucked in there is no going back.

My Blackpool supporting mate thinks I complain too much and that I should be glad to support a Premier League team but of course it doesn't work like that and is not that simple!

What a rollercoaster of small ups and huge downs it is being a blue but there is no escape.

Tony Abrahams
467 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:08:34
It doesn't miss the point I'm trying to make, Don. The point you're trying to make is just a different story mate!
Rob Halligan
468 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:09:21
"Just back from work to find Ancelotti still hasn't been sacked. It would appear that shite, losing football is going to be carried into a third season."

Ah diddums. Never mind, give it another couple of years or so, and you never know?

Darren Hind
469 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:18:26
I wonder who will be here the longest.

Carlo, The headless tackling machine he paid a fortune for...or Tom - championship at best -Davies.

Actually I don't wonder anything of the sort.

Paul A Smith
470 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:22:31
Ian's posts seem to bother a lot of posters. I regard them with as much patience as I will give Carlo Ancelotti and, although repetitive, he is right and it's plainly obvious the football has been poor.

I do believe he ignores many other factors for the poor football other than the usual scapegoat for poor form.

I mean, how many more managers can these players make clueless?

Danny O’Neill
472 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:32:32
Ian's posts are fine. Slightly one dimensional in that he doesn't like the manager but, in fairness, he has a point about the football served up.

But exactly. How often can most of this squad get away with blaming the managers? When you cross the line, you take responsibility.

Dale Self
473 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:38:12
Being bothered and seeing something that requires a response (usually pointing out a fallacy) are two different things. Post on, it's good action for the site and mildly entertaining from time to time.
Dan Nulty
474 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:41:44
Exactly Danny, the football has been shite under Sam, Silva & Koeman, all with the same players largely. Change the manager as much as you want and, if you listen to Carlo, he is telling you the players he has are largely not good enough to play the style of football we want to see. They aren't good enough to play possession football and break teams down.

The last player I remember our academy churning out who looked permanently comfortable on the ball was Rooney. Until that changes, we won't be changing the style of football so what is the point changing the manager again?

Paul Burns
476 Posted 24/05/2021 at 19:55:15
Want to understand why 9 out of 10 kids at local schools support Liverpool? Performances and results like that.

Want to know why kids from Everton-supporting families end up supporting Liverpool? Performances and results like that. On a regular basis.

These fools running and playing for the club are killing us.

Darren Hind
479 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:01:17
I can't stand listening to this ignorant claim that it's the same players who have gotten different managers the sack anymore.

It's total total garbage.

Rob Halligan
480 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:10:32
Good shout Danny, after all, I can't imagine for one minute that Carlo told Michael Keane to carry the ball 15-20 yards into a ruck of man city midfielders, before losing possession and enabling city to breakaway, leaving Ben Godfrey totally exposed as three attackers beared down on him to score the second. Nor can I imagine for one minute that Carlo told siggy to take a piss poor penalty and miss, a penalty that could have got us back into the game. Nor can I imagine for one minute that Carlo told Tom Davies to turn back towards his own goal while Aguero was right up his arse, thus enabling Aguero to snatch the ball off him and score the goal every sky pundit wanted to see. there have been hundreds of such incidents this season, that I doubt Carlo instructed players to do. Most of the time, for me anyway, it is a complete lack of confidence in the player(s) themselves, with Holgate being the biggest culprit.
Tony Abrahams
481 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:12:12
Ancellotti got this squad in and around the top 4, for quite a lot of this season, so it can't be the players' fault?

The football wasn't great but it was effective, which the manager openly admitted himself.

He's also said that, in the games where the formation wasn't so rigid, that we only won two out of fifteen, and therein lies the other problem: Why oh why did he change?

Craig Walker
482 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:13:09
Derek - yes you're right. I really meant two FA Cup Finals, but didn't say that. We were robbed in the Milk Cup Final first game with Hansen's handball. I wasn't really counting 1989 as that wasn't really a great Everton team by then. I was absolutely gutted after both of McCall's goals but I think our decline had already started.

Agreed though. It's hard being a Blue.

My lad is 10 and he's experienced us beating that lot for the first time. His mates are all supporters of former Super League teams. I sometimes think “What have I done?” Hopefully our time will come. BMD is the only thing to be optimistic about at the moment.

Tony Abrahams
483 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:16:08
I just imagine what it was like to be a Man City fan 20 years ago, Craig, because it stops me going insane, mate!
Martin Mason
484 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:28:54
Darren @480,

The same players produce the same garbage results? Could just be the players?

Martin Mason
485 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:32:13
Ian @464,

The motto is no more than a joke – like anybody who would use it as an excuse to demand success.

Ian Bennett
486 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:35:41
Darren (@480), How is it ignorant? No-one would pay these jokers the screw that our idiots have paid out in contracts and squandered transfer fees.

How many of our players get into a Top 6 side? Very few. The squad is collectively poor, and why we are running through managers on a regular basis.

The only tactic that works is scoring first and park the bus. If we concede, it's game over as we don't have the legs, the technical ability, or goal threat to chase a game.

Do you really think Pep would get a tune out of Gomes, Sigurdsson, Keane, Holgate, Iwobi, Bernard, Delph, Davies et al? Not a chance.

Darren Hind
487 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:39:43
Richarlison, Digne, Bernard, Mina, Gomes, Kean, Iwobi, James, Doucouré, Godfrey and Allan had nothing to do with Fat Sam getting the sack. They all got here after he went.

Mirallas, McCarthy, Gueye, Lookman, Jagielka, Vlasic, Williams. Klaassen, Rooney, Funes Mori, Robles and Barkley all had nothing to do with Carlo looking shite.

Please stop saying it's the same group of players making a succession of managers look shite. The only people making these managers look shite are other managers – and of course themselves.

Ancelotti has four regular first teamers who were brought in on his watch. He has inherited a man he describes as one of his best captains. He has inherited a brilliant left-back. He has inherited one of the countries brightest young strikers, a Brazilian forward, and the England goalkeeper.His supporters claim he has improved most of the other players who were already internationals.

It's a manager's job to boost his players up, not blame them for his own shortcoming. Ancelotti signaled the beginning of his own end. It was disgusting to see him throw his own players under a bus with his stomach-churning "I'm not a magician!"

Breaking news, Carlo: Your players are not magicians either. The cowardly spoiling tactics you have adopted have made it difficult for any of them to shine.

By not trusting them enough to just go at and beat inferior opposition... you let them down.

You also let the club and the fans down by not going for the very rare opportunity presented to us. By chickening out and settling for Europe`s inferior tournament, you ended up fucking that up too!

Paul A Smith
488 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:43:34
I don't remember anyone saying every player here got the last four managers the sack. That is you taking it literally but all of them have been here for the last few managers bar the obvious Ancelotti signings.

Tony Abrahams, that could be down to many factors, mate. Was he getting the best out of them at that point? Were we fitter? Were other teams getting us at bad times for them?

Or does it mean he was great then but now he's shit?

I'd say there's been a culmination of faults and some from the manager but it's hard for players to climb the levels when the squad is drained.

Ian Bennett, that is a real comparison if I ever saw one. As if Pep could win titles with this lot.

Kieran Kinsella
489 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:51:36
"I cant stand listening to this ignorant claim that its the same players who have gotten different managers the sack anymore."

10 of the players involved on Sunday played in Silva's last game after which he got the sack.

I remember Fergie throwing his team under the bus when they lost 1-6 at home to Man City. That was his lost, another busted flush. Only went on to win the league the next year.

Kevin Molloy
490 Posted 24/05/2021 at 20:52:42
it sounds daft arguing that somebody like Carlo is taking us nowhere. But my god, look at the evidence. Look at all those games this season, where we were mesmerised by Fulham Newcastle Sheffield United,how we couldn't lay a glove on teams like Wolves and Spurs whose managers already knew they were for the boot. I'd go so far as to say we were the worst team in the division for the last six months. Why was that? The players got more and more fed up with the tactics it seemed to me. And who can blame them? they were utterly fucking dreadful. Liverpool have full backs playing sixty yard crossballs at full speed, we couldnt pass the ball five yards without going backwards. It's nowhere near good enough.
And now I don't trust him to put it right. I look at the players he brought in, and they couldn't care less, just like the boss.
Darren Hind
492 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:03:28
One of the very best features of this site is the accuracy of the records it keeps. They're not infallible, but they are miles away from anything else you will find elsewhere.

Anyone peddling the line that a certain group of players have made a succession of managers look shite should go to the top of the home page. Click on Players and view the staggering turnover of players who have come and gone since the Ginger TTwat left. It's under "Transfers".

It's been done in a way that makes the comings and goings smack you between the eyes.

Same players? My arse.

Tony Abrahams
493 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:07:39
My own view is that he was playing to the squads strength by playing defensively, but that’s just my own view, and every point you make has some value imo Paul A.

Did we concentrate to much on a defensive system to the detriment of the squad?

Did we begin to play with a system that didn’t suit the players, once we moved away from concentrating on protecting the back four?

Did we run out of steam because of injuries to key players, who also have to play every time they are fit?

Are we really unfit, or do we just lack a few to many players, with enough pace to play on the front foot?

I could go on, but I’d prefer to wait and see, and obviously by giving Ancelotti the benefit of the doubt, because of his standing in the game, and also because of the lack of foundation in both the club he joined, and the squad he inherited 18 months ago

Conor McCourt
494 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:08:39
Always players are shit. Players who are ahead of top four teams.

Our goalkeeper is England's finest ahead of Man Utd's for England
Our left-back is ahead of Man City's Mendy for France
Our Brazilian striker is a Brazil regular who is preferred to City's Jesus
Our English striker is in front of Man Utd's Greenwood and 2nd only to Kane.

Mike Doyle
496 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:13:09
On the BBC website today, Phil McNulty presents a summary analysis of each Premier League team's performance.

On Everton, he opens by pointing out they are a club never slow or shy about pointing out how they get it right off the field – but supporters have every right to ask when they might actually deliver something on it.

Having just snatched 10th place from the jaws of Top 6, it's hard to disagree.

Dale Self
497 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:18:47
Kevin, if I may speculate I think that is the threshold where you might see a Ginge or Fat Sam get it done whereas this squad on several restarts cannot progress under Carlo. This doesn't make the point that Ginge or Fat Sam would have taken this team anywhere but the tactics would've been simpler and the motivation much more tangible. Much of Leeds, Aston Villa and West Ham motivations come from where they were last year which is not present for Everton.

It is debatable but to me it looks like Carlo went ultra-defensive because he lost faith in the midfield initially. The swings were so bad to the downside that the squad was willing to tough it out although their limited footballing sensibilities were being insulted. Then to all our amazement the squad found a new bottom and Carlo went public with his frustration. It is not a surprise that there was a bit of caving in as it all came to a close. The ones laying down didn't give a damn to begin with and Carlo was on to it.

Kevin Molloy
498 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:19:51
I think that trumpeting that PM refers to is utterly cynical. I remember that worldwide campaign that Fifa had with every player saying to camera 'No to racism'. Like Blatter could care less. But such a fanfare allowed him to try and cloak his organisation in virtue, and thereby put people on the backfoot who were starting to make accusations of how the place was being run.
And so it is with Everton. 'Carlo embraces our values' says DB. What a load of crap. Carlo is being paid fifty million pound by a russian oligarch, Carlo couldnt give a monkeys about Denise's values, whatever they are.
Craig Walker
499 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:21:20
Tony A - good point. I’m envious of City but I don’t begrudge them after the years they spent watching the media fawn over their neighbours.

In 2004 they beat us 5-1 on the last day of the season with the likes of Shaun Wright-Phillips. I remember having the same feelings then as now.

Kieran Kinsella
500 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:21:26

None of those players you mentioned are first choice starters for their teams except Henderson who took that crown about two weeks ago.

Tony Abrahams
501 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:24:12
Either they didn’t give a dam, or they just don’t have the ability required Dale, and that’s why I personally don’t think Ancelotti was being cowardly, when he came out and said he needed new players.
Conor McCourt
502 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:31:42
Kieran/Paul A my opinion is irrelevant. The question was asked. All are in front of players in top four teams at international level. No one is arguing we are a top four squad but we are no mugs either.

Me thinks if Carlo had top four players under his regime then they too would soon not be considered top four. Just look at how all our technical footballers Holgate, Gomes, Bernard, Siggy and Ricky have struggled under his care. Give Richarlison, Calvert Lewin, Pickford and Digne to those top four squads and they would all play a lot of football even if they too wouldn't be first choices.

Paul A Smith
503 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:33:12
Conor you are better than clutching at straws mate. Using Pickford when you know as well as anyone hes made as many mistakes as Howard made in his entire time here.

Mendy is behind Zinchenko at City too, Jesus has started the last 2 Brazil games with Richarlison and Greenwood? You cannot seriously be throwing an 18 year old with immense talent as behind Calvert Lewin for England and he isn't guaranteed his euro spot, (though he should for aerial ability alone).

Simple equation. You have just finished in the top 4, who are you buying from Everton?

After signing nobody i'd go further and ask have Liecester Spurs West Ham Arsenal Leeds got players the top 4 clubs want?

I reckon they all have at least one.

Joe McMahon
504 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:33:32
Can't argue with what Phil McNulty says about Everton's season:

"Where do you start? Everton is a club never slow or shy of telling the world how right they get it off the field but supporters have every right to ask when they might actually deliver something on it"

I think we all agree here!

Mike Doyle
505 Posted 24/05/2021 at 21:43:50
Kevin # 499] I suspect the message behind PM’s comments is genuine rather than cynical. If true he’s certainly not alone as many TW posters have made similar comments in recent seasons.
I’m that aware other clubs are / have been active in supporting their local communities (e.g. Charlton Athletic and Wimbledon are good examples) - but I’ve not noticed any other club promoting it to the extent that we do. Happy to accept that I might be wrong though.
Kevin Molloy
506 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:06:17
I meant the trumpeting by Everton can be viewed cynically.
Neil Lawson
507 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:08:47
Season is over. Thank goodness. The weather is finally about to improve. Debate is often worthwhile and enjoyable. However, time for us all to just agree it was awful and to watch the highlights on YouTube of the 4-1 win over Sunderland in 1985.
Far better use of your time than posting on here and getting allied up with each other.
Importantly too, you will have a smile watching proper exciting footie. When was the last time ?
And my analysis and solutions ?
Have a good summer everyone.
Hugh Jenkins
508 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:18:38
Just copied this off another Everton Fan site:-

"A dose of reality.

The BBC employes 25 ex-professional footballers as pundits (not including G Lineaker).

Today the BBC is examining how they all fared in their top four prediction game for last season?

Depressingly, 23 called the top four teams that actually ended in the top 4 (although not necessarily in the correct sequence).

The other two had three of the four correct, but had called Arsenal as the fourth team, one at the expense of Man Utd and the other at the expense of Chelsea.

So, forget this talk of the "Big Six".

The reality is the "Rich 4".

It is going to take time, money and a lot of luck before anyone really breaks into that cartel on a consistent basis".

Puts a lot of our opinions on here into perspective.

Neil Lawson
509 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:19:25
Allied ? Bloody autocorrect. Het up.
And the fantastic game v Bayern for an even greater smile.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
510 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:21:50
Hugh #509 - and how many of those 25 are ex-players of the rich 4?
Dale Self
511 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:28:37
With you Tony. That was a remarkable thing looking back. The comments were guarded but he was clearly letting it be known that it was a personnel problem. I would certainly prefer the lack of ability interpretation but they should never have hit bottom as a team that squarely.
Brendan McLaughlin
512 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:29:47
Are you suggesting ex-players from the non-rich 4 would have made radically different predictions?
Paul A Smith
513 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:38:57
Phil what difference does it make mate it came true. Hugh posted a fact.

An ex Everton player might have picked us and looked a right Moby.

Kieran Kinsella
514 Posted 24/05/2021 at 22:47:46
Phil McNulty on Twitter clarified he wasn’t talking about EITC but rather a claim Bill Kenwright made that Evertons board are the best in the business to the extent other clubs are constantly calling them asking for advice on how to run their own clubs. Wow just wow
Brendan McLaughlin
515 Posted 24/05/2021 at 23:01:47
Must be that clubs are phoning us to get in the Times Top 100? No way are we letting that cat out of the bag!
Pete Clarke
516 Posted 24/05/2021 at 23:32:31
As John mentioned in post #418, Pickford has been the only player to have vastly improved. (Godfrey had a great first season )

Whether it was because of the very poor performances of the rest of his team mates that made him look good I'm not sure but I definitely would have given Pickford our player of the year mainly based on the fact that he alone stopped Liverpool from winning the league.

He must have been doing something right because he was the most talked about player in the Prem for some time 😉😉
Si Cooper
517 Posted 24/05/2021 at 23:45:54
Some (too many) games /performances have been woeful, but the season hasn’t been completely ‘fubar’ so who gets the blame?
I’ve seen too many players fail at the basics to expect them to perform significantly better whoever is in charge to believe we couldn’t do with some fresh faces no matter what. I doubt Carlo will get the push as long as he is keen to continue, so all I can do is cross my fingers that he has identified the problems and has the wherewithal to sort them out over the summer. I also doubt a serious reset of the squad can be done without about half a dozen recruits.
Looks like a lot of work for the manager and DOF to get done in 6 to 10 weeks or so.
Mike Gaynes
518 Posted 24/05/2021 at 23:55:18
I'm struck by the image of an Evertonian Sisyphus, coming home every day and checking hopefully to see if Carlo has been sacked... and then being crushed by the psychological boulder of his continued employment.

Given that Carlo's contract runs another 1,132 days, I think our Sisyphus is going to need all the encouragement and support we can give him.

Christine Foster
519 Posted 24/05/2021 at 00:16:35
We hear it all the time, we want success, we want a trophy, we should be in the top four.. but take a look at the top four and compare their spend on players to ours, everyone of them a billion plus spent, man city 1.5bn for gods sake.. With a manager paid 2.5 times what Ancelotti is..Klopp is paid twice as much..20m a season!
Point is, we are not in the same league, the money generally buys the best and gives you far more options. We haven't had enough of the first and none of the second. We can shine brightly if our stars line up but once the wheel comes off its downhill with only the hand brake.
It's all very well to compare to Leicester (why?) But long term consistency is bought. We have a paper thin squad of players that need a fair wind to get over the touchline, never mind win !
If you want to dine at the top restaurant you have to pay the bill. We have champagne tastes on a beer budget.
That's reality.
Christine Foster
520 Posted 25/05/2021 at 00:23:13
I might add, with Moshiri and Ancelotti we have the best opportunity to be in the top six mix for years to come no matter what people think. At the moment we are rebuilding and I can see more coming in than going out, building up a squad not just building a team.
Gerry Killen
521 Posted 25/05/2021 at 04:34:41
Yet another promising Season ends so badly and being a BLUE you never get used to the < False Dawns > and its thanks to TW that we can all share our thoughts on what went wrong. I for one am glad we never got into EUROPE at whatever level, and this has been the plan from the outset/. Carlo has had a good look at all the playing staff and decided - along with the Board, that our main goal is to reach a mid-table position and make sure we are still in the Prem. next Season, end of. Another thing that bothers me is Carlo,s son and his position at the club, there can be little doubt that our squad is lacking in fitness, its nice for a Father to bring his son into the PREM, but is he the right person to get the squad into top shape ? Finally, can anything be done curb the big spenders and agents to make football a more even playing field ?Have a lovely Summer, relax, smell the flowers, see you next Season, cheers, COYB, Gerry Killen

Derek Knox
522 Posted 25/05/2021 at 05:26:57
Mike G @ 519, I like your Sysphus analogy, and always admire any allusion to Greek or Roman Mythology, such fascinating stories, and a decent read to boot.

Also, you must be a 'Rolling Stones Fan'! :-)

Tony Abrahams
523 Posted 25/05/2021 at 07:58:22
Champagne tastes on a beer budget, is a great analogy Christine, with the most obvious reply being that the beer has gone flat. The beer was already flat, will be the next shout, but at least there used to be a few good songs on the jukebox, would be the reply!

We can talk all we want, and try to believe what we write, so I’m finishing with something Ancelotti said, when he was talking about signing new players.

They have got to “sacrifice” he said. Sacrifice is just a simple word, but to sacrifice is anything but simple, especially in a game of excuses.

Paul A Smith
524 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:02:20
A quality winger or two could change our luck. Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin are both strong at attacking crosses and we don't have the supply.

Wouldn't be surprised if we looked at Adama Traore. If not him, someone very similar.

Tony Abrahams
525 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:13:35
My worry is that Ancelotti prefers a narrow midfield, Paul A. Although this has proven successful for him in the past, it's something I always think will come unstuck when playing against real width.

For his or any system to work, it's obviously all about the players, but it looks like he wants the wider players to drift into inside-forward positions... That might just be because the players we have used in these positions will always have a natural tendency to drift inside because of a distinct lack of pace.

John Keating
526 Posted 25/05/2021 at 08:40:34
Top players are at a premium and will only go to the top clubs. We will be shopping at Primark this summer but probably pay top wages!

It's all well and good wanting a clear-out – which is true – and bringing in God knows how many we need to bring in. Thing is... where's the money coming from?

Will the money we get for Holgate from Man City pay for all these signings?

Mark Ryan
527 Posted 25/05/2021 at 09:08:57
Still makes me cringe that someone, heard that someone, heard someone else say that Pep was running the rule over Mason and was considering him for City.

Three things will happen with Holgate: Nobody will come in for him; Pep won't be considering him; and he'll be flitting between full-back and centre-back for us all next season – and probably the season after.

I won't honestly mind... if he improves month on month – but improve he'll have to.

Hugh Jenkins
529 Posted 25/05/2021 at 09:27:16
Phil ( 511). Some were – but not all.

One was Leon Osmond – he called the correct top 4 - "but necessarily not in the right order", as Eric Morcambe once famously said.

Ray Smith
530 Posted 25/05/2021 at 09:39:32
Carlo Ancelotti, when manager of Bayern Munich, said, “If you're organised, even an ordinary player can do well because he'll have options, and he'll know where to find them. But when you get to the final third that's where it changes. That's where you need creativity and freedom, because without it you only have sterile possession. Especially if your opponent's defence is organised and paying attention.”

Is that what Carlo is doing at Everton? Because if he is, it doesn't appear to be working, especially at home!

Although I am no fan of Bielsa or Leeds, his teams are in your face for 90 minutes, win or lose.

Although I'm not sure of the training regime at Finch Farm, I'd like to see the Duncan Ferguson attitude when temporary manager, instilled in the players, and without undermining Carlo, give the team talks before, during and after a match. He can then beast those that under-perform between marches, and ship out the ordinary players who are not up for the fight.

Duncan's attitude together with his desire to learn from Carlo for one or maybe two years more, makes him an ideal candidate for the job as and when Carlo moves on.

I want to see Carlo stay at least until BMD is up and running and maybe the first full season (contradiction from previous paragraph). Then the ready made successor is already in place.

Maybe I'm dreaming but – after 57 years of being a Blue, at the age of 70, having given up my season ticket due to poor health – I'd like to see us competing for the top prizes like we did in the '60s and '80s before I go to meet my maker.

End of Epistle.

David Cash
531 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:01:59
I did tell him actually.

Which link would you like. ?
The city one ?
The reaction by Everton giving him a five year deal to tie up his services ?
The one from the guy who reports all city matters for the Manchester evening News, or maybe you can do your own research and find out something about you club.

Google Holgate to City. And find reports from all over the world

When you've done that. Google Holgate five year deal and you will see EFC's reaction. That'll tell you how serious The reports were being taken.
Either that or you can continue to argue in ignorance like you always do, against something you clearly know nothing about.

Whether you like it or not John G. Pep wanted him. Carlo blocked his move.

Maybe the two most decorated men in football should have come on TW and sort your advice on Holgate.

By the way. Mason was handed a massive pay rise.

Brian Murray
532 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:01:59
Derek 523. Being a blue and especially on here it's all painted black and we can't get no satisfaction! I'm sure we will be dancing in the streets with our summer clear out and game changing incomings!
George McKane
533 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:05:00
Big No from me on Traore. I watched him live last week – all huff and puff and tight shirt and big muscles but absolutely no end product.

I agree we should be looking for a wide runner who can deliver into the box.

Tony Abrahams
535 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:25:04
Maybe the game has changed. I Googled "famous Italian wingers", and the only one it came up with was Bruno Conti, who was never what I'd describe as a proper outside-left, unless I'm mistaken.

The Italians also seem to be having one of their most barren spells on the world stage, but I doubt it's because of their very productive strangulation tactics, and more likely that they just haven't produced as many talented players.

For most systems to work, a team usually have to be very good at retaining the football. The only way the current Everton team can consistently string a few passes together is by playing sideways or backwards, unfortunately.

Mike Doyle
536 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:35:16
Tony 536,

I fully agree with your final paragraph. Man City have provided excellent examples of this in most games they have played this season – and have been a joy to watch.

In addition to ball retention, the movement and control of their players is such that they often don't bother using a ‘traditional' centre-forward. But why would you when your midfield contributes so many goals?

Paul A Smith
537 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:46:11
Don't bother Googling "Holgate to Man City" unless you love paper talk.

£30 million and Stones, one says 😂 – and grown men believe that shite.

Find one quote from either club. It's actually ridiculous to fall for that schoolboy nonsense.

Tony Abrahams
538 Posted 25/05/2021 at 10:53:55
Ray@531, after questioning Ancellotti’s formations at Goodison, I have in my own mind come to the conclusion, that what he has said about organising footballers, is what his main objective has been this season.

Laying foundations hopefully, and then trying to move onto the second stage, which has proven a lot more difficult, (it always is) and even against the also-rans, in games we have just been expected to turn up and win, at Goodison.

Ray Smith
539 Posted 25/05/2021 at 11:11:47
Tony 539

How true, we have relied on fortress Goodison for too long.

I’m hopeful that 2 maybe 3 signings will see an improvement on our home form next season, coupled with a continuation of our away form this season. Man City apart, we havn’t been thrashed.


Paul A Smith
541 Posted 25/05/2021 at 12:02:42
Nailed on then, Thomas. The Sultan of Brunei was gonna buy Moshiri out and buy Holgate straight back in anger I heard.

This is what happens to people who over-hype players. They are looking for evidence you normally wouldn't need to prove a player is a top talent.

Tony Abrahams
542 Posted 25/05/2021 at 12:05:57
I'd say we need more new players than three, Ray. We seem to get done down the right-hand side between fullback and centre-back, quite often, so there's two already! and Ancellotti has also stated that he wants more players with creativity.

I reckon we need at least six players to cover the whole squad, even without European football mate!

John Keating
543 Posted 25/05/2021 at 12:10:43
So it wasn't Pep at City??
Who? Where?
Oh I see...
Captain Pip at Salford City!
Derek Knox
545 Posted 25/05/2021 at 12:59:07
Brian @533, " Hey You, Get Off My Cloud! " :-)
Danny O’Neill
546 Posted 25/05/2021 at 13:05:20
We need 4 or 5 better players as the next step.

Possession of the football is what should be drilled into players from a young age. If you keep the ball, the opposition don't have it. That's quite simple.

But, and acknowledging I risk being told off for my repetitiveness, you don't do the imposter "possession for possession sake" thing, which many teams do today. You keep the ball until the game opens up. Then you go forward with intent and purpose, City being the best example of this.

Width is important, even if you don't use the winger. The wide players stretch the pitch to open up space elsewhere or they get the opportunity to get dangerous balls into the strikers. It gives the defending team a dilemma. Stick or twist? Those defenders amongst us will know that scenario. But not to have width makes it easy for the defending team. They can just stay compact and soak it up.

The opposite of playing possession football is to go forward for the sake of it when nothing is on and just give the ball back to the opposition because you play the ball blindly.

To use extremes, Pep's City versus the 1990s English brand of percentage football that you still see in the lower leagues. "Pass, pass, diagonal" I think of it as. The ball goes forward without even looking up.

Take the Ball, Pass the Ball is a great documentary if you haven't watched it.

Steve Brown
547 Posted 25/05/2021 at 13:28:32
Conor @ 495, you can up with a list of four top quality players in our squad then stopped. That says it all.

It is the same players and squad who got Silva sacked. Check Mark's @ 370 post. Inconvenient I know as it contradicts the propaganda, but facts are facts (unless they contradict the anti-Carlo narrative, in which case they are 'meaningless stats'.)

The Spurs shortlist is apparently Ralf Rangnick, Graham Potter and Bobby Brown Shoes – be careful what you wish for!

Conor McCourt
550 Posted 25/05/2021 at 15:36:31
Steve, a poster in order to deflect attention from a valid point said that no player would get into a top four team. I foolishly engaged in answering such a dumb response and you have seen the result.

If you or anyone on ToffeeWeb is expecting Kevin De Bruyne, Phil Foden or the like to rock up in an Everton strip in the next few years then you guys are in for a sharp shock.

To answer your question about quality, the England squad announced today saw three Everton players. Only Utd and City (the two best teams in the country this season) had more. Spurs,Arsenal, West Ham and Leeds could all manage one and the brilliant Leicester couldn't get any. Do you think we should finish behind all these teams? Carlo also brought in two players of his own choice whom he identified as being world class.

As for your jibe about anti-Carlo propaganda I have to laugh about your hypocrisy regarding skewed stats as a I seen you comparing Carlo's reign to others. Many of the stats of previous managers reigns take into account when things became untenable so only at the end of the reign should they have any real merit. Contrasting a guy who has just come out of his honeymoon year is ridiculous.

Certainly from purely a points total Carlo's first thirty eight games (full season) was impressive if not the quality on display but the subsequent eighteen show the same worrying signs at Bayern and Napoli of clear regression. Earlier this season we were told that Carlo has an impressive 66% win rate, now it's in free fall. What will it be like after another six months? Speaking of Bobby Brown Shoes I note you didn't do a direct comparison between him and Carlo after their first season and a half in all competitions which would be a less skewed slant.
Hmm I wonder why that would be?

As for being careful what we wish for Bobby Bullshit got us to 72 points, the last sixteen in Europe and two cup semifinals in three years. Eighteen months in we have a twelfth and tenth place finishes in the bank, with the worst football in living memory, a new emergency room to cater for our latest crocked geriatrics and practically every players resale value has hit an all time low due to Carlo's canny knack of making all players look like tripe.

Craig Walker
551 Posted 25/05/2021 at 17:35:46
It’s a no from me for Traore as well. Another winger who has all the attributes but doesn’t deliver. A faster, stronger version of Iwobi. No thanks.
Ray Smith
552 Posted 25/05/2021 at 17:53:37
Tony @543,

I do agree with you regarding more signings as squad players.

However, I should have explained myself better, in that slotting 2/3 into the starting 11. 👍

Darren Hind
553 Posted 25/05/2021 at 18:21:55

Stop blinding them with facts. They can't cope with you leading them a merry dance.

You are right, of course. I just Googled it and my laptop lit up like a Christmas tree. Man City's interest was being reported all around the world on just about every news outlet.

You are also dead right about Carlo moving swiftly to put out City's fire. Within a day or so, he had offered Mason a 5-year extension and tripled his wages. Maybe Paul A, John Keating and Thomas Richards are right; maybe Carlo offered him a £17M contract based on something he read in the current bun?

Maybe our very own Lyndon got sucked into this "Lie" too?

Everton's best journalist put up a piece on these very pages citing interest from City and others as the reason for the new contract. Maybe the seventy people who voice their approval on the thread bought into the lie too?

"I did not know him before I came here. He has the quality to be a top defender. Fast strong physically and good with his head. He is a complete defender" – Carlo Ancelotti, talking on the OS after fending off Pep by securing his man for another 5 years.

Steve Brown
556 Posted 25/05/2021 at 19:08:17
Conor @ 551, so the reason Carlo has the second highest win ratio in Everton's modern history is because the other managers' reigns became untenable after they lost games?!

That is the problem with taking such a vehement stance on Ancelotti so early. It leads to arguing away facts that do not fit with predetermined opinions. It also leads to obsessing on whether Man City were interested in Mason Holgate in early 2020 – they may have been, they definitely wouldn't be now. He has frankly been absolute gash this season.

I would rate Carlo as a 6/10 this season, simply because it will take 2 more summer transfer windows to see if he can produce a winning squad. Our away record would have put us 2nd in the Premier League and our home record would have placed us in 15th. So, he has a lot of areas to improve upon but his record of winning suggests he should be given a chance.

And he will definitely be here for those transfer window, so buckle in!

Conor McCourt
557 Posted 25/05/2021 at 19:38:36
Steve, you aren't comparing like with like. Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Fat Sam and Silva all had impacts in their first year. After this period, players can become stale, disillusioned, etc. Martinez and Koeman had to deal with Europe which at that time cost the average Europa League team about three places and 9 points in the Premier League.

I have given Ancelotti due credit for his first calendar year points accrual. If he has the same 6 months as his previous, he will be nowhere on that list. If Martinez left after his first season would he be the best manager in our history?

This post of yours is like one of yours earlier in the season saying we had a great chance of Top 4 because we were in pole position. Moral of the story; let the movie play out before making sweeping statements that only come back to bite – especially when it's about 10% top to bottom.

Paul A Smith
558 Posted 26/05/2021 at 08:36:03
Thomas 555, it has dwindled to "interest" now. What could that mean? They looked at him and thought ... "Nah"? They are saving him for a rainy day.

It's absolute tosh. The editors wrote about it... Wow, an editor from an Everton fan site writing about an Everton story. Surely it's true.

What these deluded are suggesting is that Holgate didn't want the move. Pretending Ancelotti couldn't have replaced him with the fee and, unlike Lukaku, he bowed down with no cry for a massive move, and signed the contract Ancelotti wanted him to sign.

Alice in Wonderland stuff. I remember we had "interest" in a couple of players one summer according to The Echo's report of 'according to The Mirror'.

So much substance our local paper was regurgitating shite the morning papers wrote. Like they do every summer.

Darren Hind
560 Posted 26/05/2021 at 11:21:11
Paul A Smth,

You are making a complete fools of yourselves. Why don't you just admit you knew absolutely nothing about reports which went wold wide. An Everton story you didn't know about.

The editors on this site confine "papertalk shite", as you put it to the Rumour Mill section. Lyndon was not talking about a "story", he was reporting the facts when he told TW posters about contract extension Seventy posters voiced their approval (including one Mike Gaynes btw).

I gave only a short version of what Carlo said when he told the official website (not a newspaper reporter in sight) about securing Holgate with a 5-year deal and a very hefty pay rise. He gave a very long interview waxing very, very lyrically about him.

No links from me. That's because you could both easily do a little research yourselves but, despite having the facts at your fingertips, you are choosing to stay ignorant of them.

Leave you to it...

Steve Brown
561 Posted 26/05/2021 at 11:42:03
Conor @ 551, interesting post. I don''t agree with much of it but a good read.

Welcome back by the way, good to see you posting again.

Paul A Smith
562 Posted 26/05/2021 at 11:53:32
Darren you are nuts, have you read the rumour section on here. Do we believe them all automatically.

I remember the Hogate rumours well and thought they were absolute bullshit at the time.

Give as much make believe nearly truths as you want but all you have is paper talk and its complete patheticness when experienced mature fellas take it as gospel.

Not one bid, one quote, one denial. Nothing but you believing Journos that couldn't pull one line from a human around football.

The research line is a whopper like this story.

Type in Holgate to Mam City like you said and the first few are related to how shite he was last week then nothing but your worldwide papertalk and i remember The Mirror writing about it in the summer anyway and thought nothing will come of this.

More fool the fools.

Darren Hind
563 Posted 26/05/2021 at 12:15:04
I will say this verrryyy slowlllyyyy.

Lyndon does not report on the Rumour Mill. And is not one of those newspapers you read feeding you full of shit.

Perhaps if you stopped reading the shite you may pick up on the facts.

The reason you two are arguing so long and hard about this, is because the guy who many will consider the worlds leading authority on defenders had called Holgate "the complete defender"...Thats kinda out of wack with your impressively knowledgeable " He's shite" mantra.

It's not a crime to disagree with this manager. Even if you do think he can do no wrong You and Thomas need to come to terms with that.

Paul A Smith
564 Posted 26/05/2021 at 12:25:00
Again more selective shite from you Darren. I love the posters that look for the editors backup on here. Shows exactly what you are dealing with.

So Lyndon had a quote from all the sources we have asked from did he? Or did he just report what the papers reported?

I am sure he doesn't work for so what were their words Darren.

Find us the bit where Carlo said no city for Mason, theres a 5 year deal for you at Everton. Funnier each time I say that

Also when you pull your head back out, look how many times I have agreed with headaches like Ian (your other obvious account) on bad subs and Carlo isn't blameless hes made mistakes. Words I have posted on this site.

Yes I do believe there is far more to it and he needs time but I don't throw my whole soul on paper talk and fantasise we could keep any player from Man Citys reach.

That is just outrageously stupid.

Thomas Richards
565 Posted 26/05/2021 at 12:41:02
(your other obvious account)"

He's got three? ,"(your other obvious account)"

He's got three? ,Turned off,,0,12:38:13,,,ok,23848,05/26/2021 12:38:13,,reader,,,no 1158460,40860,toffeeweb,26/05/2021,Derek Thomas,,"Mark Ryan @ 61; The rumour (Yes, I know) is that Iwobi is all down to Moshiri, when the Zaha deal fell though... if it was ever really on. Moshiri pushed for him, based on what he saw at Arsenal 5 years previous, so make that 7 years ago.

Talk about keeping a dog (Brands) and barking yourself.

It's no wonder we're in a shit state.

Paul A Smith
566 Posted 26/05/2021 at 12:42:13
Might as well return accusations, Thomas. Fight fire with fire and all that.

I bet he's got no proof who you are either. He's probably emailing Lyndon like a sycophantic desperado looking for this so-called proof.

A 5-year deal for Holgate is now proof Man City wanted him.

It's a new age mate.

Thomas Richards
567 Posted 26/05/2021 at 15:47:12
The Echo have linked us with 15 players over the last week or so, Paul. I would have a decent wager we don't sign any of them. I would also have a massive bet that Holgate never signs for City.

Echo gossip is same as Manchester Evening News gossip. The nonsense of "he was offered and signed a 5-year deal to keep him at the club" is very naive. If City were in for him, he would be a City player now. They weren't and he isn't.

Here's more gossip for you.

According to Football Insider, Everton will listen to offers for Mason Holgate in the summer, as they aim to raise cash for A-list signings, including a top centre-back.

FI, who add that Holgate has not totally convinced Carlo Ancelotti since the Italian arrived at the club, also mention the Toffees' links to the aforementioned Koulibaly in their report.

Matthew Williams
568 Posted 26/05/2021 at 15:48:42
To answer your question, Anthony #134... as it stands there's only one man who could do that job,the same bloke who's sound bite inspired his current clubs whole ethos.

"Winning isn't everything, wanting to win everything is".

I wouldn't be surprised if he completely blanked the teary one either!

Darren Hind
569 Posted 26/05/2021 at 18:49:54
The only reason Lyndon's report was mentioned is that I thought even you two would be able to find it... I overestimated you.

It was reported by every single sports station and newspaper that City were about to swoop. This was not idle gossip peddled by a single newspaper. The report was confirmed by the guy designated by the Manchester Evening News to report on all things Man City.

Carlo was not gossiping in the baggy. He was gushing about securing his "complete defender" on the OS... in front of cameras.

Breaking news: Everton did not offer a £17M contract to Mason Holgate because of the media frenzy surrounding Man City's intentions. They offered him it because the board were worried about a bit of gossip in the Mirror

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

Kieran Kinsella
571 Posted 26/05/2021 at 19:07:10

It was not confirmed by anyone. The guy from the MEN, who is about 19 years old, and has 191 followers on Instagram said "Holgate has been linked with" and later "Holgate has emerged as a reported transfer target".

Key words being "linked" and "reported." The latter meaning this lad is basing his article on something else he read that was "reported" by someone other than him, ie, not the MEN City Expert.

He has no mention of quotes even from "club insiders" or people "close to the dressing room." It was a rumor, without anyone substantiating it. Likely promulgated by Holgate's agent to push Everton into offering him a new deal.

This past week, the Liverpool Echo had a piece by a similarly young lad, Theo Squires, on their dedicated Everton page with a headline "Everton linked with Kvaratskhelia" – notice that word "linked"... same as in the MEN.

Later in the article, it says: "Everton 'favourites to sign' Kvaratskhelia" and yet, it has since emerged per Marcel Brands himself that this rumor began when the player's agent sent Everton a video of the player and sought to generate interest.

Everton didn't reciprocate, and most papers including The Echo have since explained that it was a mere rumour, although today when I Googled his name my computer lit up like a Christmas tree with articles and blogs from all over the world carrying this story that Everton want to sign this guy.

Darren Hind
572 Posted 26/05/2021 at 20:45:52
Let's put this foolish nonsense of make-believe 19-year-old reporters or the Echo linking us with 15 players this week to bed.

Let's just put a few direct quotes up here...

When asked directly about Man City's intentions, Carlo replied;

"I can say Mason Holgate is an important part of the future of Everton. There is no possibility he can go to another club. Zero Possibility"

Holgate was then offered a 5-year deal and his wages were tripled.

On his signing, Carlo was lavish in his praise, telling the Official site: "He is the complete defender."

Carlo then went on to tell the OS:

"It is good for Everton when a young player believes this is a good club and wants to be here. Mason can be one of the top defenders in my opinion."

Don't shoot the messenger. If it's all a fabrication and Carlo was lying through his teeth, take it up with him.

Brian Williams
574 Posted 26/05/2021 at 20:50:44
So when Carlo says that it's gospel but when the likes of Allan and James say they're here because of Carlo that's them just chatting shit?

Because Darren you said something of that ilk when people were saying the players said Carlo was the "pull" to come to Everton.

So the players lie and Carlo always tells the truth?

A bit naive of you that like.

Kieran Kinsella
575 Posted 26/05/2021 at 20:50:53

Again, where did Carlo say "We received and or rejected a bid from Man City?"

He was asked by a journo, probably barely of legal age like the MEN lad, who asked him about the rumors and that was his response. He didn't say it was true. End of. Goodnight nurse.

Kieran Kinsella
576 Posted 26/05/2021 at 20:53:08

Right, the "Gospel of Carlo," a mean allegedly in cognitive decline is absolute. But his acolytes such as James are just sycophants when they talk.

Brian Williams
577 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:00:22
He's comedy gold Kieran. 🤣🤣🤣
Thomas Richards
578 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:01:28
"When asked directly about Man City's intentions. Carlo replied;

"I can say Mason Holgate is an important part of the future of Everton. There is no possibility he can go to another club"

Losing his marbles, Carlo. What he should have said:

"Mason is a defender who loses his concentration on many occasions. He is not aware of forwards making runs off him, has no spatial awareness. He often gets caught in possession in dangerous areas. His back passes invite trouble"

That statement would have seen Mason's price- tag rocket

Graham Mockford
579 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:05:11
Seems there was a time someone else was keen on Holgate:

“I'm a big Holgate fan. I think he has shown he has a footballing ability the other two centre-halves don't possess”

“The first time I saw Mason Holgate playing for our kids against Liverpool's kids, I thought, “Hello, this lad can play!” He was clearly a proper footballer. No thought at all about what he would do if he got it under control. He was thinking what he would do with it when he'd got it under control.

I was worried sick we would lose him to West Bromwich Albion. When he played left-back, you knew he could do it. When West Brom played him right-back, you knew he could do it. When Ferguson pushed him into midfield, you just knew he could do it.

The problem we have is Holgate is also our best centre-back too. Moving him forward would weaken our defence. “

I wonder which of our posters that may have been 😂😂😂

Darren Hind
580 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:17:06
Carlo's gospel" ?????????

I don't care What Carlo said. I simply put up direct quotes as repeatedly requested

If you guys think he was lying through his teeth. Thats your business

Like I said. Dont shoot the messenger ,"Carlo's gospel" ?????????

I don't care What Carlo said. I simply put up direct quotes as repeatedly requested

If you guys think he was lying through his teeth. Thats your business

Like I said. Dont shoot the messenger ,,,1,21:11:01,,,ok,13643,05/26/2021 21:11:01,,reader,,,no 1158584,40865,toffeeweb,26/05/2021,Dale Self,,Pinball goal but 1-1,Pinball goal but 1-1,,,1,21:16:04,,,ok,23707,05/26/2021 21:16:04,,reader,,,no 1158585,40854,toffeeweb,26/05/2021,Kieran Kinsella,,"Darren

Casho should have compared with 47 year old Fergie. Third year in role at man Utd, had won nothing in years, busted flush playing boring football. His glory days at Aberdeen were history and he was punch drunk against the brilliant new champion George Graham. Fergie Finished 11th in the Premier League, 51 points, lost at home to the likes of Derby, Coventry and Norwich. Lost 7 of the last 9 games of the season. He was right to realize the game was up and to retire then as the fans were demanding. Oh wait.

Darren Hind
581 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:22:19

I make no secret of my admiration for Holgate You are hardly unearthing some dark secret. I may not be as big a fan as Carlo, but I always liked him.

That said. I think giving him a 17m contract was the worst thing we could have done. IMO; He thinks he has made it and has been crap this season. getting played out of position every other week has also ruined his season

I do find it amusing watching people get bent all out of shape when you point out that the guy who can do no wrong has been gushing in his admiration for the guy who can do no right

Now that's comedy gold

David Thomas
582 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:25:11
Well I hope Pep comes back this summer Darren or in fact I hope anyone comes in with a bid that results in us getting Holgate out the club by the start of next season.
Graham Mockford
583 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:25:18

You see I don’t think there are many who can do no wrong but using Holgates new contract as a stick to beat the manager when you have publicly praised him on more occasions than I quoted shows a certain er.... agenda

Graham Mockford
584 Posted 26/05/2021 at 21:33:15

In fact here’s what you said just over a year ago when it was announced that Holgate had signed a new contract

“Silva acted like a complete moron. How anyone could have prepared the lighthouse stopper (insert name) to a footballing talent like this is totally at odds with everything I believe in.

Holgate still has a way to go. He goes for the Hollywood pass too often, but he'll learn to pick his moment.

His risky style of play will get him into trouble from time to time too, but every time I see him a turn out of trouble or side-step a high press with that air of "I'm a proper footballer", I just want to sing "This is how we do it. This is how we do it baby!"

Five more Mason Holgates please, Mr Brands!”

So at that point you agreed with Carlos approach?

That’s the trouble with the internet, it keeps receipts

Darren Hind
589 Posted 26/05/2021 at 22:08:24
The internet also attract people who want to dive in and argue a point they don't understand. Mockers.

I did not put the quotes up by Carlo as a stick to beat him with - I have too many others.
I put them up there because others were denying point blank that he made them.

Not sure why you think I disagree with them.. I think I'm the only one on here who does.

Graham Mockford
590 Posted 26/05/2021 at 22:13:13

You were acting out of public service. A beacon of truth. Not of course advancing your agenda against the manager.

You know when you said this today

“That said. I think giving him a 17m contract was the worst thing we could have done. IMO;”

How does that square with the last post

Well it’s a post truth age they say 😂

Don Alexander
596 Posted 26/05/2021 at 00:25:39
Hugh (#509), the fact that bog-standard pundits can be so accurate in foreseeing league positions tells us all we need to know about how depressingly predictable the Premier League (and others) has/have become over many recent years.

This year the three demoted teams were demoted weeks before the end of season, the champions were similarly identified as were United in terms of the Champions League, and the only "interest" was who between Liverpool, Chelsea or Leicester would also qualify and which of three clubs (one being us) might qualify for a paltry European contest vying for crumbs off a competition that vies for scraps off another competition that ensures, with its vast riches, enormous wealth that, surprise, surprise, ensures the enduring boredom of professional football right across Europe and the world.

You couldn't make it up.

As an aside (and I know I'm being naughty in saying so), I'm so happy that our Dazza has come back as a regular poster. He's the genuine joker in a cast of lunatics.

He's the one and only Zebedee (the preposterous genius) on our Magic Roundabout of a forum.


Justin Doone
597 Posted 27/05/2021 at 00:46:01
Briefly want to chip in with the bizarre Holgate argument.

Rumours usually stay as rumours until a player is sold but I could certainly believe other Premier League clubs, including City, would consider Holgate – just like any decent young domestic player.

I think he's had a decent season. He's come back from injury, played both centrally, right-back, right-wing back and possibly as a defensive midfielder in a couple of games.

He's made mistakes, not as bad as others but considering he's still a younger defender I think he's been an important player for us this season.

If I could sell Holgate or Mikey Keane for the same money I'd keep Holgate. He's got more to offer us than Keane IMO.

The Europa League Final was a disappointing spectacle but what a great penalty shoot-out. As much as some may ridicule Man Utd for losing, what does that say about us? We are a fair way off being that good.

Carlo (and all of Everton) must do better next season. I still believe, NSNO!

Kieran Kinsella
598 Posted 27/05/2021 at 01:14:43
Holgate according to the Mirror had a fistfight with Richarlison after the city game. The Athletic indicate Richarlison started it by staring him out as he was subbed then it continued in the dressing room though they don’t detail the fisticuffs part.

Paul Hewitt
608 Posted 27/05/2021 at 12:31:17
I see Conte has left Inter Milan. Now I wouldn't mind him as manager.
Anthony A Hughes
609 Posted 27/05/2021 at 12:45:47
Interesting debate about who said what about who to whoever regarding Holgate staying/going/in demand by all and sundry.

It's all about opinions and we can only comment on Holgate with what we see on the field.

To me he showed early potential but this season he's been, inconsistent, erratic and appears arrogant in his play which his ability doesn't warrant.

At a time when England haven't really got a settled centre half set up it's telling that he's never been nowhere need the squad or mentioned in passing.

Barry Hesketh
611 Posted 27/05/2021 at 13:30:55
Paul @609,

I thought you were in the Keep Carlo camp?

Paul Hewitt
613 Posted 27/05/2021 at 13:59:52
Barry@163. I am. But it doesn't hurt to see what you could have.

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