Cannon fodder for the ebullient Champions

Coleman will come on, on crutches, if he thought he could give something for the team, what a guy, might give Coleman the last few mins Max for a cameo.

But unless Carlo has kidded us all, looks a no go for Coleman.

Mina nowhere to be seen. A small reshuffle with Holgate at right-back for Coleman, Godfrey paired with Keane at center-back, Davies reinforcing midfield alongside Allan and Doucouré. Sigurdsson the 'creative' presence in the line-up.

Gerinto 'em, Blues.

Exactly. Not like his brave heart buddy James

Yes, I'm deluded.

I put an Ayrton Senna on that.

I had one of those premonitions which have cost me so dearly down the years.

Backing the boys away from home has been a lucrative little side show this season

Peps selection surprised me tbh Rob.

Its gonna cost me about 80 qid to win sixty at this rate

Rather this City line up, than their second choice eleven, that would get stuck in.

We're going for compact with no width. Likely Dominic and Richarlison will have long periods of being isolated.

I hope your wagers come in.

They are either going to play conservative or pass the living daylights out of us.

Either way its going to be an interesting game.

Link

I remember getting destroyed in a last game of the season at City, possibly Rooney's last game in a blue shirt, (I can't even remember if he played, because I was on the ale underneath the stands for most of the game) but I'd take another hiding today, if it meant we got into the top four next season, once Carlo finds us some width on the pitch, and some fucking depth off it!

Strange signing Dave.

Right here we go. I'm off to watch the match. Good luck erm ......Black Watch?!!

We are on a different planet to all top 4 teams, still.

We need an entire midfield replacement. Pretty stark.

I didn't fancy Sigurdson to score!

Started very well with two shots on target in the opening five minutes. City doing what they do best and we don't on their first goal. Quick one touch passing and movement which led to an overload Holgate couldn't deal with. A player of De Bruyne's class is always likely to hurt you there and he did.

Within 3 minutes shot ourselves in the foot with Keane taking on too much and running into traffic on the half way, vacating the space behind him. Again, the quality of Jesus did the rest.

We looked as if we could be on to a hiding, but actually came back well and should be just the one goal down. We are certainly getting in and around the City penalty area more than I anticipated.

Tom Davies having a fine game. Looking and receiving the ball. Carry it and passing it well.

At 2-1 you would restart the 2nd half with some belief, but still at 2-0 it's a big ask.

Oh! And Jim Beglin's commentary continues to be exceedingly dire.

And what the defence was doing for both goals, one defender not knowing whether to go to the man out wide or the one with the ball ended up going to neither and then Godfrey, the man to enable us to play further upfield caught hanging back probably waiting for the inevitable back pass. Both Holgate and Godfrey have problems with their positioning.

And I'm not sure if this Referee seems to be either biased or just poor as he's booked three Everton players for things he's barely given free kicks against City players for much the same thing, why wasn't De Bruyne booked for catching Allan with his studs? If it's good for the goose and we know which one looks more goosed!

If the first goal is an overload Holgate couldn't deal with, then the second is an overload Godfrey couldn't deal with. In reality, neither player was culpable for the goals.

Huge rebuild in the summer, need 5 quality additions, the obvious shipped out and decisions made on a few players (Iwobi, Holgate, Keane, Gomes) that have featured heavily this season.

For me, I'd look to sell Keane. Nice lad but has limitations that he cannot overcome. Teams that plan to use a deep line would be very interested. Holgate would command a smaller fee and despite having a poor season could turn it around. Keane is just too slow and lacking in agility. Ditto with Gomes. I'd sell Iwobi also, offers very little going forward. I'd actually prefer to keep Bernard, but it's been obvious since last season that Ancelotti doesn't rate him.

I don't have much sympathy for most of the players out there today. You get what you deserve and there's ways even of losing. This is the mentality that saw us lose passively to the Liverpool u23 team last year. A team like City, play like this and expect them to have fun at your expense.

Also would not be surprised if Chelsea won the Champions League. Though it would make little difference to Everton.

Hard to see where we improve too. There are only about 3 or 4 players you'd be bothered about having next year. The rest all interchangeable with other dross.

Bottled it. But then we've bottled it on too many occasions in this season of missed opportunity. We finish where we deserve to be.

Many of these players are simply not good enough and I wonder if some of them have already been told that.

Holgate, unsurprisingly, was better at centre back, while Godfrey struggled against Sterling. Nevertheless, I still think that Godfrey and Holgate should be our long term vision at centre back.

I see Davies was slated on the live forum, but Sigurdsson, Allan and Doucoure were equally poor if not worse.

When players play poorly I expect them to get slated for it, but some players get it in the neck more than others for equally poor performances.

Equally, if this was Koeman, Allardyce, Martinez or Silva we would be calling for the sack. I don't recall ever seeing and Everton team regress so much in one season.

Take the first 5 games away and it reads
Played 33, won 13, drew 7, lost 13, scored 33, conceded 41. Pitiful.

Holgate, unsurprisingly, was better at centre back, while Godfrey struggled against Sterling. Nevertheless, I still think that Godfrey and Holgate should be our long-term vision at centre-back.

I see Davies was slated on the live forum, but Sigurdsson, Allan and Doucouré were equally poor if not worse.

When players play poorly, I expect them to get slated for it, but some players get it in the neck more than others for equally poor performances.

Equally, if this was Koeman, Allardyce, Martinez or Silva, we would be calling for the sack. I don't recall ever seeing an Everton team regress so much in one season.

Take the first 5 games away and it reads
Played 33, won 13, drew 7, lost 13, scored 33, conceded 41. Pitiful.

If we bring in the Moyes/Unsie dream team and keep diamonds like Davies and Gordon, all will be well. Carlo instructs the players to pass to the opposition, so it's a simple fix.

Thank god for Pickford who prevented a perhaps record-breaking disaster.

Utterly mind-blowing how far off the pace we ended up finishing, even more astonishing considering our start.

I am glad I don't have to watch this lot for a while, and I'm not trying to be offensive to those who will genuinely miss football. This was going in one direction and I've seen enough. Let's hope this sparks the real investment needed to start bridging the gap.

Steady on your picking on the young lads here.

They may well be hopeless but they are young. One of them is a local lad as well by the way. Pack it in.

Richarlison not happy being substituted again while Calvert-Lewin stayed on. I have some sympathy.

Thank god the season is over.

However, a fitting finale to a woeful season and they proved they are a long way off being worthy of any Euro place.

Oddly enough the only thing in the season worth remembering is the win over Liverpool. Sad, isn't it?

Before the game, I wanted to post that I hope that it is not an embarrassing thrashing by Man City, but did not post it as I am superstitious! But that's what it turned out to be.

Carlo tried to be adventurous, and for about 10 minutes in the 1st half, we looked pretty good. But he is right, we just don't have the players to play that open flowing football.

So, we finish 10th, right in the middle of 'mid-table' mediocrity. Very disappointing after a promising 1st half of the season. This is a tough, tough league, but there is always hope if you get your summer acquisitions right.

Look at Aston Villa - they survived on the last day of the last season, made some very shrewd purchases and with Grealish they look like a Top 6 side.

Big summer ahead, take care guys, there will be better days.

I'd have said that mediocrity rides again except, as difficult as it is to grasp, we were actually playing for something until the end – even if it was just the worst of the best of the not quite runners-up.

Fodder indeed. Spineless again. A complete laughing stock and truly embarrassing for the wonderful fans all over the world. Shame on you all.

My Player of the Season by a mile.

Pickford kept it in single figures.

What can you say, but time to rebuild and the disappointment from this season, is massive, the worst I've felt for many campaigns with Everton. To be in such a good position at the start of the year and dissolve so feebly, is hard to take.

To get such a good away haul of victories and fail consistently at home has been Everton's demise. Today, City could have had 14, and sadly for me, Everton played like a Championship team.

These defeats are not flukes and Agüero could have had 4 or 5 and he was on less than 25 minutes. Pickford kept us in it and no craft and no guile.

It will be interesting to see who's staying and who's going this pre-season.

So mid table and the table doesn't lie. What next, but let's hope next season is better.

So a flat goal difference of zero... That's one to beat next season.

Time for a Reggie Perrin, with the spawns of Old Nick, blowing off as usual..

Consistent, yes consistently and factually not very good for decades, but let's hope for the best preseason ever, as Everton need it.

"Shite players, weak club"

Pretty much all that needs saying.

So much dead wood has been assembled by the 3 previous managers. Carlo is going to need 𧴜m this summer to put it right.

I've been saying it for months and getting told off for it, but we need it and need experience alongside Ben.

Let's all give each other a bit of slack tonight. Whatever side of the fence we're on, we're hurting.

You're right. Especially if we try to play out from back.

You know how long I have been pushing for a centre-half to play with Godfrey, mate.

Pat @76, I agree.

However, whilst Gylfi for example is a has-been, Holgate has never been anything but shite except for a few months at the end of one season when he was pretty good.

However, certain people on here talk as if he had a spell like he was Bobby Moore. If Holgate is the future in your opinion in our defence, then we obviously want very different things for this club.

Holgate a long-term solution at centre-back? Jesus Christ!

They got 59 points out of a possible 120, less than half and a –1 goal difference. Awful by any yardstick after winning the first four games.

Just watching them in most games this season made me squirm as they always seemed vulnerable when the opposition had possession and these last three games really showed them up.

They do not play as a unit and are all over the place. I would have thought many teams licked their lips when coming up against Everton and I can understand the frustration of the Wolves manager when they lost earlier in the week after dominating the game.

Assuming Ancellotti does get a few new players, one hopes that a big improvement shows immediately because he, like his failed predecessors, will be shown the door.

Man City chose the right ones.

One day we might choose better.

Godfrey also.

You can't buy a totally new team of superstar footballers, Carlo, to hide your inadequacies.

Congrats to David Moyes, a job well done. No bad-mouthing blue Bill this time, he wanted Moyes back.

Apart from the zombie football, one thing I've found supremely annoying is to read your mantra repeatedly on a weekly basis it seems, about you withholding judgement of the manager until the end of the season.

Well, we're there now, so I'll be looking keenly for an original dissertation from you providing that promised judgement, in which you don't repeat anything you've said already in your countless myriad of posts on here before the expiry of your self-imposed deadline.

Had to actually look up the word 'ebullient':

1. cheerful and full of energy.
"she sounded ebullient and happy"

2. Archaic (of liquid or matter) boiling or agitated as if boiling.

So Man City are definition 1, and our fanbase is the archaic secondary definition.

Clearly. I'm personally boiling over. Anyone else?

And on your way out, tell Signor Ancelotti, the modern game at the top level has moved on a bit in the last few years...

Even if you can play, you have to be an athlete as well... Mason Holgate being the perfect example!

I will bet you as much as you want Ancelotti will lead the team in the first game next season.

Our game plan is to get Digne down the left to cross to Calvert-Lewin. That's it!!! We have no other threat going forwards.

Marcel Brands should be looking for new coaches to breathe some life into our gameplan.

And a central-midfielder, winger and real striker.

We finish in mid table after being 2nd on Boxing day.

A massive rebuild is needed next season and managed by someone with a spine and a pair of bollocks.

Finally, it's been a difficult 12 months for everyone due to Covid and I wish every poster on ToffeeWeb a fantastic Summer. Roll on August with the hope for better things.

NSNO. UTFT

Ian

James is probably happy to miss out on Europe. A few less sick notes to write.

I'll give my opinion on my club, just as I have done all my supporting life. Which is all my 49 year life thats has seen many ups and downs on both ends of the spectrum.

Message to Carlo: If, as you have stated, you don't think this outfit needs revolution, keep your suitcases packed and in the hallway and listen out for the taxi.

You won't see Xmas with that level of delusion./p>

Back to the movie, our team today resembled the lice ridden East European POWs that showed up at Michael Caine's training camp

I take it your good lady is in a good mood at least after Villa

"delusional out of touch manager" and you a nearer the mark.

Yes we got smashed but so do many teams against the best team in the league and currently best two in the C.L. Remember the Watford F.A. Cup Final? I think Pep said they are playing for their places in the final because for the first 60 minutes City were playing their normal game, no foot off the pedal.

Here's a debatable one, Iwobi played better than most when he drifted in the middle. Yep, I know, I kept checking myself but he was half decent on the ball in the middle and threaded a couple in to good positions.

I don't, for a single second, believe Carlo is not good enough. However, I'm becoming increasingly concerned that he just sees us as 1) a final payday and 2) an apprenticeship vehicle for his boy.

Playing Holgate next to Keane again is criminal. Subs are uninspired. Kids on the bench for numbers only, with no intention to use them other than the bizarre “fuck you” to Richie at the end.

What we can't do is give him an open cheque to sign another 4-5 “Allans and James'”. Both are good players, but not physical enough for this premier league, and with a squad depth this low.

Not sure what the answer is…..but there is major work needed on the player front. Hopefully the Simms/Gordon's/Branthwaites can come back in to replace the Holgates/Bernards/Kings…..but we need players who are going to displace the Keanes/Allans/Siggys if we're going to genuinely compete.

If no one thinks Carlo is responsible does not know business. The management team are costing probably close to a million a month. This squad are mid table with a league two manager. I'm bored and tired of average. Even Liverpool showed heart and desire to get into the top four. Everton were 4th in the league for away performances. Just more desire and hard work top 4 was a possibility against teams with less quality but had more desire to win.

The management team needs to decide if they can take Everton fc forward? I see no positives this season and the desire of the players in some games has been pitiful. Again and again we say "big summer for the club"! That's what keeps us supporting this great club!

Negative, negative, negative. Shithouse football HOME and AWAY.

He has zero ambition, zero motivation he's like a hollywood star phoning it in for a paycheck in a crap film.

Any criticism will no doubt be deflected with its the same crap players excuse, yeah but he's being paid one of the biggest managerial salaries in world football to get these players fit, motivated and giving a shit.

He's failed spectacularly in every area this season.

10th behind Spurs and Arsenal who have had diabolical seasons.

All Hail Carlo Magnifico!!!!!!!!

Maybe Tony Hart can morph something out of it?

Peter Gorman. Wash your mouth out. Your son has a birth right and it can't be reversed!!

Take no notice mate.
I value your opinion as I'm sure most on TW do.
One thing is absolutely certain in reading your posts.
You clearly have far more football knowledge than your detractors.

that photo is appallingly bad taste by James IMO, on more than one level. Social Media sure has its downsides.

We need, as many say, a total clear out from top to bottom starting with chairman Bill, scouts, academy heads, unsworth, most of the first team squad etc... it won't happen but you can wish.

Mediocrity is our middle name.

Who, apart from Carlo has won anything?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Give Carlo at least one more season, then judge him?

How is our so called best player ‘fatigued', and allowed to travel home to play in the Copa America!

If and it's a big if, will the prima Donna turn up next season?

Totally disillusioned with a season that offered so much.

Big fix needed, but who would want to come too Goodison? Other than Carlo's aged has-beens?

Don't get me wrong, there are too many Carlo knockers who want him out. However, we won't attract another manager of his calibre. And sacking managers year after year (sometimes) twice is not the answer.

I refer you too my original point, “Who in our current squad has won anything?”

I'll ask again, what wizard could perform miracles with this squad?

For the 'Carlo Out' brigade, who would you like?

This preseason, as we always say, is massive. Mediocrity can't be accepted and failure in this manner is not acceptable.

Time for a proper ruthless preseason and some fortune spent in the transfer window.

And to hope for far better next season.

Four or five first-teamers needed.

Be prepared to be disappointed this summer. Same old shit and you know the club will do minimal business to get by, like every summer. Repeat again next season for a mid-table finish.

The Moyes years were the best it'll ever get for Everton, I'm afraid.

There is a very clear difference between being negative and being right. Nothing wrong with his barometer.

He has proved to be out of his depth in the murky waters of the Premier League.

I'm going to hold fire and see what the summer brings, but my concern in all of this is whether Carlo can really be arsed???

I really don't buy all that ‘he gets us' crap. I acknowledge he's a gentleman and can see how he's a good ambassador for us, but that's peripheral for me and Joe Royle can do all that if that is the criteria.

Chelsea can be ruthless because they had a ٟbn squad and spent 𧶀m to improve it. We have a deteriorating squad worth half that and a very modest transfer budget.

With a couple of desperately needed wide / forward players we will be better but let's not kid ourselves – we're a very mid-table squad in a very competitive league.

Only about 𧶲m (+) net spend on transfers will make a difference in the very short term. Even then, we'd still be struggling to finish 4th. Because the big boys are way more than 𧶲m ahead already and will also spend to improve.

Carlo Ancelotti is under pressure after this performance. I would think he will have 10 to 12 games next season to show he is the man, I am starting to doubt if he is, to be honest. We need a minimum of five players that will make a difference.

Because of the money they are on, it will not be easy but I would have the "For Sale" signn up and stuck on Gomes, Bernard, Iwobi, Holgate, Siggursson, Mina.

The club need a top class centre-half, pacy right-back, a creative midfielder, pacy winger and a striker that can score with his fucking feet.

If Man Utd are willing to give us 㿼 million or anything close to that for Calvert-Lewin, I would fucking sell him also (providing we get the replacement).

I don't want any more fucking journeymen mercenaries turning up at Everton and not giving a fuck.

As far as Rodriquez's picture tweet goes, don't get me started. Fucking joke, hope he stays in Colombia.

I need to stop, I'm so angry.

Massive overhaul needed. More passion, positivity, pace and drive needed. Players who will put their bodies on the line to win. We do need a revolution rather than evolution. Onwards and upwards (I hope).

I'd describe Calvert-Lewin more as "the emergence of a striker that bundles chances home" rather than a "top striker".

I'm not blaming the lad because he's just part of a shit team but he's just an above average player, the ball at his feet he's one of the most cumbersome players I've seen in the Premier League era leading our frontline.

We need strikers and attackers with touch and movement and preferably can actually shoot from outside the box now and then, when do any of our lot ever take a dig?

Under Ancelotti, he's led us to 12th and 10th place finishes.

So we won 7 versus their 6 and among those we lost were two Man City defeats. Not great but not exactly the relegation form your Sheffield Utd mention implies.

How this club has spend nearly half a billion quid to end up with the squad we've got is beyond me. That's criminally neglectful.

Ancelloti has been taking his money but it seems that he can't motivate or organise this bunch. Yes, they aren't good enough to be challenging the top teams but they shouldn't be losing the number of home games they've lost this season's the opposition they've lost to.

Aside from Godfrey and Pickford's resurrection, the only bright spot for me was winning at that shite hole across the park but even that was dampened a little by the fact it was in an empty stadium.

What's the answer? We could change the manager but it won't make a blind bit of difference as this club is a rotting, stinking corpse that takes your hopes and dreams and smashes them repeatedly over the head with a claw hammer.

NSNO, my arse!

We were playing Man City today. To compete, we would need a lot more than a new centre-back! They are the benchmark, how are we going to close that gap?

Looking at today's squad, whoever is the manager has a monumental task on their hands.

Next season will be Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool in the Top 4.

If Kane leaves Spurs, they will be in our mini-league along with Arsenal and Leicester City. We need reinforcements everywhere.

Mediocrity is rampant throughout this once great club that I have supported for nearly 60 years. Mediocrity at board level with Boys Pen Bill and Denise Barrett-Baxendale appearing more interested in EitC.

I have no doubt, and have said it on numerous occasions, that Moshiri is only here for the glitter and vast money-making potential of the regeneration of the northern docks. He and Usmanov are out-and-out ruthless businessmen and are happy for Everton to finish mid-table as long as they retain Premier League status while the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is completed.

The elite manager that most of our fans laud over is being seen to be a busted flush and, like most of the vastly overpaid prima donnas, is only here to fatten his wallet. "That's unfair... an outrage" some will scream.

This manager has had all season to instill some basic belief, tactical nous and a style of play but the biggest failure and what hurts me most is the total lack of pride and the total apathy shown by the vast majority of the playing staff.

The body language of Ferguson sums it up for me, he tries to communicate his thoughts to the manager and is dismissed with total disdain on most occasions.

I have watched enough of my beloved blues over the years but Ican safely say the lack of pride, fight and personal responsibility is a disgrace... too many very mediocre players, including the manager, on vast gold-plated salaries doing very little to earn their corn.

Sorry for the rant, boys – at least we can have a few weeks of respite before the next season of purgatory is upon us... unless this club can drastically change its entire fabric from top to bottom in the next few weeks.

Peter, fair one but it's inevitable don't fight it!

Still feeling raw. The manager is not inexcusable and I will come back with a genuine footballing reflection on the season, Michael, once I calm down.

But as I lick my wounds, can I just say thank you to all of you here. Been great debate, discussion and disagreement with each and every one of you all season.

Sigurdsson and Allan both had shockers today and are finished. Pickford and Godfrey are decent. Holgate, Davies, Iwobi and Bernard are not good enough. The rest are average at best.

Agüero showed our front two what strikers are all about with his movement and finishing. He is better on his own than our two together.

Throwing money away on an almost spent superstar manager was in keeping with signing Sigurdsson, Delph, Iwobi, Bernard, and the rest.

Massive salaries and massively overrated by naive decision makers with too much money to spend.

Gang of shithouses.

If everyone else is equally stumped, surely the odds are too high to continue with the present management. The decision has to be pay the incumbents off on Monday to save wasting millions in the summer on more aging, injured, not-up-to-it merchants.

It is the only rational decision when looking at facts rather than CVs.

In the two seasons prior to Carlo we had 58 points and 54. So less than the 59 we just got.

Similarly, the strikers must convert more often when in a 1-on-1 against a keeper. And James is a must whenever he is fit but we have to find midfielders like City's who find space, move into space with the ball, and get forward in numbers.

Look again at today's game and see how many players City got forward when attacking and then look at how many times we had just the two and Digne wide and none of them making the opposition's defence think more than their own teammates.

As for the manager; whether you think he's up to it or not, and I think he is, we can't continue on a merry-go-round and wonder why we sign so many players of differing styles who don't fit any particular system and certainly not that of the current incumbent, whoever he may be.

However, there must be signs of improvement in all facets, not just League position and/or financially, or we will be accepting mediocrity.

I have no idea if Carlo is still the man to turn this ship around; I have no idea if his engines are powerful enough. A comparison with last season's results compared to this season's wouldn't appear to point to progress of any kind.

A huge summer ahead, a clear-out of Titanic proportions is needed. Carlo, our Michelin chef, needs new ingredients, new recipes and more modern equipment at his disposal pretty fast or another year of stale servings awaits. Andiamo!!

One obvious area is a need for more goal threat. We only scored 47 goals of which Calvert-Lewin scored 16. So the rest of our entire squad only scored 31 goals, abysmal.

Richarlison was at least 10 short of what he should be scoring; after that, our midfield is very blunt. Zero threat and nothing to worry other teams from Iwobi, Doucouré, Gomes, Davies, Allan etc.

Whilst Sigurdsson does weigh in with goals, his game isn't suited to getting beyond the striker. That is what we need, midfield runners who can score.

Anybody who thinks 2 or 3 players will put us right, then they'd better think again. If we do only bring in 2 or 3 players, then I can see us again not getting into the top half of the Premier League.

I am sure Moshiri must be gutted given the amount he has ploughed into the club, only to see us going backwards. I am sure Carlo will be given this summer and up to Christmas to improve this team, but there has to be a huge turnaround both in performance and position; otherwise, the merry-go-round of us looking for another manager will start again.

Next season, it looks like we will all be allowed back inside Goodison, but put in many more performances like we have at home this season and the fans will soon let Carlo and Moshiri know we want more than we have seen this year at Goodison.

Who's to blame? Well, in my view, it's a collective blame. Ancelotti has made mistakes without a doubt. Lots of players have made individual mistakes which no amount of tactical nous would eradicate.

But what pisses me off the most is the apparent lack of effort and spirit. You can have a shit game but try your very best and put maximum effort in but most of the players have at some point, IMO, just cruised along.

I'd rather have a complete reset this summer and start again with young, athletic, pacey players, and be prepared to accept that it could take some time. Watching the present incumbents play plodding, side-side-back football is soul-destroying.

Gary Neville called them out a few times today and I actually think he wants us to be and play better. You could hear the disbelief in his voice at the lack of effort and bravery on show today.

Thank fuck this season's over.

I agree about Calvert-Lewin, he's a clumsy finisher with his feet, great in the air, but we definitely need better.

I'm not having Carlo's Inzaghi comparisons, he seems to have streaks where he'll score then go about 8 without scoring. Since Christmas, his goal return has been minimal but he's not alone cos Richarlison has missed his fair share of chances.

And I'm not having Carlo's insistence on playing them in a pair, it just hasn't worked at all. I can't remember the last time they both scored in the same game.

Mind you, we hardly ever score more than one anyway.

Kunal above has it about right although no more than four or five signings will only be enough to see a genuine challenge for Top 6 or Top 7.

What a pity our owners have so much spare cash, it matters not whether we finish 6th or 16th. And the manager is a nice old bloke.

But Marine had an excuse when they were defeated by Spurs in the FA Cup. There were many divisions between the two clubs. And the Mariners tried their hearts out.

Everton, on the other hand, were simply pitiful today. Feeble. And the penalty was spineless.

What is it with us that, if a team needs a cosy 5-0 win, we will facilitate it? And if a sub comes on with half-an-hour to go needing to score 2 goals to break a record, we leave him in acres of space to do so? Are we corrupt, or just pathetic? It's got to be one or the other.

I'm in a fortunate position. My football next season is effectively free, I have turned 65 so my credits and refunds will pay for my season ticket for Goodison Park. I recently won 䀆 in the Marine monthly draw, so that will see me through the turnstiles there. I suspect I know where I will get better value for money.

Yet my heart lies with Everton. We have a great man in charge in Carlo. I am prepared to allow him the ups and downs of this season, purely on heart and hunch. But he needs to step up, pronto.

Seriously, the professionalism and attitude and mentality has to change. Today for me, Everton looked like a Championship team. How many teams recycle the ball up the half way line and pass across and back, like Everton do?

The squad is limited as it is but guts and desire and team work need a massive overhaul.

Next season: new Captain – Godfrey, and get the fight and guts to win at all costs.

It's gnawing me to think this season we've had the upper hand and initiative on Liverpool but, since beating them at our old ground, they've gone on from strength to strength and Everton have timidly barely turned up in all bar a few of them games.

That's the disappointment but it's not as if it's not happened before. Genuinely this has got to be the time for the club to become professional and focused at all levels.

It's staggering when you look at Everton's fixtures and it's like they've never had such a good chance to make good in the Premier League and they made a great job of spewing it.

What next, let's see what the summer brings.

He has been praising Rodriguez's commitment when we can all see he's just interested in his own image and collecting a massive wage while flouncing off whenever he wants. What message is that sending to the team?

Well, we saw that today. There will be no criticism of Rodriguez by Ancelotti. The golden boy who's milking the club like Ancelotti and his son. Moshiri was a soft touch and he's paying dearly for it.

I'll dust myself down, renew my season ticket and hope for a radical overhaul in playing staff. Hope springs eternal! Now for a well-earned break over the Summer!

He's 27, not yet at the age when you'll get the best out of a centre-back. I think he will get better.

Please don't do that with Ben Godfrey. He's young but has great potential. But he has a lot of learning to do and will make mistakes along the way. Like John Stones did.

Defense:
Digne - keep
Godfrey - keep
Keane - keep
Mina - squad player or sell
Holgate - squad player or sell
Coleman - release

Midfield:
Allan - keep
Doucouré - keep
James - keep
Davies - squad player or sell
Gomes - squad player or sell
Delph - release
Bernard - release
Iwobi - squad player or sell
Richarlison - keep but must improve

Forwards:
Calvert-Lewin - keep
King - release

We need to improve our quality in every area of the park. A new right-back is a must, possibly two. A dominating centre-back. Far more craft and skill in midfield, a right-winger with pace and forward with more movement who can shoot.

Now I know I'm asking for the moon here but, if we don't get better players next season, will simply be a repeat of this one but with a crowd in booing them off.

And then one did, possibly one of the greatest of all time, and I couldn't be more excited or optimistic.

When Allardyce came to Everton, I was excited. I thought, maybe this is his chance, he'll do all the things he wanted to do, and he'll play the football he'd dreamt of. He didn't, he was crap.

I now think, if the tactics and motivation we have seen this season had come from anyone but Carlo, we'd all be calling for his head. Silva and Martinez had a style, it was flawed, but you could see what we were trying to do. This Everton... I have no idea.

I'll continue to trust in Carlo, but this has probably been the most disappointing season I've experienced since Mike Walker.

We all support the same team and yes, some posters are more eloquent than others. Accepting criticism is part of the chance you must take to have the nerve to "offer" your opinion on ToffeeWeb. Supporting any team is a questionable life pursuit.

Football is something that can provide you with the heights of unbridled delight. But it and can also lead to the depths of depression and irrational anger directed at anything or anybody who might have the nerve to disagree with you after your team lose.

Immediately after the game is usually the time to vent or celebrate depending on the result. Over a lifetime, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Today, we lost 5-0 to the Premier League Champions. I also remember the last day of the season in 1951 when we lost 6-0 to the bottom of the league Sheffield Wednesday and were relegated from the old First Division. Even at that age, I was "shattered". However, I am still around and still supporting Everton. I am also peeved, annoyed, irate and "fed up" at losing. I am also just not surprised.

Having said that, today is a day to commiserate with fellow Evertonians. We have all suffered the same fate. Perhaps this is a time direct your ire at the players, the club, the manager and anything associated with Everton FC.

It is just not the time to direct anger at fellow idiots who support the same team. If it helps, just find any Liverpool supporter and kick him in the ankle and then hope you can run faster than him or her.

Remember, by about Tuesday or Wednesday, you can start planning for next season. We only need to bring in about 14 new players... See how easy it is to be positive.

A lot of our fans complain about the cozy old boys club at Finch Farm... yet Carlo's son is learning his trade on Moshiri's money.

To let James indulge himself by jetting off to Colombia while we still have a game – think about how we would gloat if Liverpool had a player that was "above" the club.

Talented thouugh he is, James couldn't care two hoots (or even one) for this club.

Right now, I guess we are all a bit in shock, pain, dismay, worry... time to care for each other. Those at the club seem to neither care nor worry about us, so let's give a bit of care to each other.

This squad of Everton players isn't up to Manchester City standard of players and, if the owner's ambitions are to be achieved, it is yet again a rebuild job, with nearly all of the midfield players being sold or released, and a desperate need for quality strikers being available.

I only see the will to win in a handful of players and none of them are midfielders.

In a game that we needed to get something out of, I want to see Allan, Davies, Doucouré leaving one on the likes of De Bruyne, Rodri or Fernandinho and see their response with a big final coming up.

Gary Neville summed it up well saying our midfield can't play a tight passing game and that we should go longer sooner to our best assets up top.

You can't give good players time and space on the ball, nevermind the great players that Man City have.

I wouldn't mind us signing two Gana Gueye type players and a couple of Raphina types. We can't carry on having passive midfielders.

For fuck's sake... Why?

The squad just has far too many poor signings in from previous regimes, players happy to take the money who have no emotional or professional investment. I'm not sure what manager could do better until they have moved on the players that need to be, or sacking another manager when clearly this hasn't worked the previous how many times now?

Lots of players on big wages taking the piss and happy to take no responsibility when most of it is their fault.

It's hard to split the priorities, as we need that forward or winger... Bailey? Diaby? Name your man. Also that creative forward-thinking modern young hungry dynamic tenacious attacking midfielder with assist and goals – Buendia?

Marcel Brands has got his work cut out, but we will need those four first-team quality players in for pre-season if we are to stand any chance at all of progressing.

Failure to offload any combination of Bernard, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Tosun, and Iwobi will see us partially hamstrung for another season.

Michael, I'd call myself a Carlo supporter just as much as I was a Howard Kendall one but that's a valid point. Shocking to see that image from a player I admire.

I take it all back. :-)

My point exactly – we were here to hero worship and make sure Aguero got a 10-gun salute send-off. Bunch of sycophants the lot of them, and in tune with Carlo's, 'I blow on my coffee, I'm cool, so it's alright' boys club attitude.

I'm 70. I have the feeling I won't ever see any success in my lifetime!

I was told today, by someone I trust, that there is a decent transfer budget available but they need to get six players wages off the bill.

Each manager buys his own players to play in his own style and, after being fired, the next manager gets rid of some of the deadwood who he doesn't want, and buys more, and the pattern continues.

There are two clubs who benefited from the pre-FFP rules: Man City, and Chelsea, who were able to splash the cash on world superstars. Chelsea were able to buy practically a new team before they came under the FFP rules while City managed to get away with 2 seasons.

Things have now changed in the FFP era and now you have to build up your teams carefully in buying and selling. There are a number of billionaires in the Premier League and we are lucky to have one who is willing to put some of his money into the club that is legal under FFP regulations.

We have to give a manager more time than we have previously to gain more stability. Starting with the Director of Football, he has to be able to work with the manager on the style of play he uses, the type of players he needs, and be able to sell the players not wanted. It is no use working with a different manager every other year, it is like starting all over again.

I am not saying Ancelotti may be the answer, but surely he should be given time to prove he is not. There is always a manager who has an outstanding season, then a poor season, but we need stability, not the flavour of the month.

This season with the Covid 19 pandemic with the lack of crowds it has produced some remarkable results but hopefully it will be over by next season. I believe stability is the better way for success... not just money.

I fully expected this result, though 2-0 or 3-0 would have been my prediction. Having seen only the second half, I saw nothing to give any positivity apart from Pickford in good form.

Worst of all, the new signings who, earlier in the season, looked to have strengthened our spine, look terrible. Doucouré is a non-footballer and Allan is possibly the slowest player on the books, on a par with Gareth Barry aged 39.

The manager has seemed distinterested, clueless and at a loss to change the downward spiral of shit. This team and coach has the look of a side in freefall. Unable to defend, unable to pass, and unlikely to score. The boss looks like he has lost interest. Why should we employ Carlo next season?

These guys will mostly still be with us and any incomers will be of a similar pedigree. I conclude that this club is not going to give any manager enough money to change it's future. Europa Conference League football is going to be our only realistic goal and, at present, Leeds and Villa look far more likely to get it than us.

I am convinced that Ancelotti is the fence for am organisation that is aiming to fund the new stadium whilst maintaining top flight football. As long as we stay in the middle of the table, they will be happy. Arsenal put big caps on spending on players and wages while they built the Emirates. We will have to get used to this shite.

The sad thing has been that even our wins (apart from Leicester away, Liverpool, and Spurs in the Cup) have been gleaned with us playing pig-ugly football. Look at Villa and Leeds. Both teams mid-table but both have played blinding football at times. Pace, skill, tempo and fight. Things we patently lack.

But I'll go back to what I said earlier. In context, we were playing the champions and best team in Europe right now.

No excuse. We didn't fail on achieving Europe today. It was over the course of the season. Still hurting. Still talking to the dogs.

At times this season - especially on the road but not today! - we have played in just such a manner. Not frequently enough lately, but often enough that I still think the manager has a lot to offer if given the resources.

If we can't really give the manager the resources then you have to ask why the owner appointed Ancelotti in the first place. Kenwright at least had the sense to find a manager on the rise even if he did end up having a self imposed ceiling.

Not cutting our coat to suit our cloth is literal insanity. You don't take your Vauxhall Vectra to the Rolls Royce service centre. Brands must stop setting fire to the owners money and get some sort of return upon it as a matter of urgency. Whether that is with a new playing group, a new manager, both or neither is what we must wait and see. But it must be surely obvious that the present path is untenable?

Nine players out:

Iwobi
Delph
Bernard
Holgate
Gomes
Davies
Besic
Bolasie
Iwobi
Kean

That shower should cover most of the incoming players.

-Sack the board including the chairman.
-Sack the DoF (not doing his job).
-Replace Unsworth (not producing any talented youngsters)
-Sack the coaching team, including Carlo Magnifico and Duncan Ferguson.
-Sell / get rid of most of the team, only Pickford and Godfrey are worth keeping.

A revolution is needed. Otherwise be prepared for more of the same (or even worse) season after season.

I think more useful would be a new coaching set up to get rid of the old boys club and employ some proper coaches and get back to basics - the players are not untalented but for years they have looked slow, unfit and lacking basic passing and moving skills.

I think Carlo needs more time but I'll sacrifice him if you can get Moshiri to make all those other changes you suggest

The rest for next year, I would pay their final year up, get the lot out, rebuild in the summer, spend big, so what if we go over the ffp, might get docked 9 points max, might get a 12 Month transfer ban, or 12 Month Euro ban, get a good lawyer in and argue the dirty dozen scenario.

Get top top players in this summer, pay over the odds if needed, as long as they are top quality, it is the only way we are going to even try bridging the gap.

No use having half this shite here, get rid now in the summer, start a complete rebuild, play the big boys at their own game, buy big, buy quality and flaunt the ffp.

We need a lot of new players who will give their all.

One thing is for sure, I'm not getting carried away if we win a few matches. This club continually disappoint and let us down. This season should have been different given the away form.

Glad it's all over. Hoping for a good result today was asking for a miracle.

Seriously, with half the supporter base treating this guy like he's the second coming of Dixie Dean, Everton are exactly where they deserve to be.

Nailed it.

Why would you want to kick them, why would you want to injure them?
Competing 100% should be a given.
Attempts to injure De Bruyne, Foden etc are a no go for me.

It won't be 10 or 12 games in – it'll be 25 minutes into the first home game of next season, if we have the same shithouse sideways and backwards passing and constant concession of the football we have had to endure this season. Then Goodison Park will turn ugly.

Ancelotti was wrong, evolution is impossible with this bunch of average feeble-minded players; we need revolution throughout the whole club.

There used to be a pride in supporting this club. We felt different, special, we're Everton, we're a sleeping giant, we'll be back... These last few years have squashed that feeling in me. I just feel embarrassed now, we're a joke and rightly dismissed by the media and gobshite pundits.

Robert#238
Very good and valid question indeed! Hence the "if" in my post.

I'm not being disrespectful or discourteous. I mean it give me Silva, Mike Walker, Steve Cooper or Manuel from Fawlty Towers, I don't care. Why? Because this has been my least enjoyable season as an Everton supporter and within three months any of these will have a chance of getting the bullet. Under this regime I dread the plug may not be pulled before the end of next season and I don't think I can endure another season watching this.

I like you all am an Everton fanatic and I don't expect miracles, I just want to enjoy my football whether we finish first or fifteenth.

City have the best 2 in the league for sly leaving one on the opposition professional fouls in fernandinho and Rodri. Why can't any of our midfielders do the same?

We have seen teams successfully target Rodriguez with rough tactics this season including the shites best defender.

Why not at least try and get in the faces of the oppo. If you can't match teams technically at least let them walk off the pitch knowing that they have been in some form of physical contest.

"leave one on the city players" you said.
Leave one on but hope they don't get injured as a result?

Only opinions Rob and I love to see hard but fair challenges.
Not for me anyone attempting to hurt an opponent against a team like City.
Holgate tried to do Foden on the by line, a shithouse tackle imo.

The only transformation I've seen is that from us being condescending good old Everton to out and out laughing stock. I'll give Carlo until November at the very latest. If the next signings start looking like the current batch (Godfrey being the noble exception) then the axe must fall swiftly.

And if Carlo's son is a top coach then why are most of the players unfit, static and without any discernible organisation? Nepotism rarely works in any undertaking and football is no exception.

Whatever his limitations, Big Dunc would never have allowed players to get away with the 'performances' they've served up in recent weeks. They'd be in the treatment room with a valid reason for a change.

Oh and George Mc K - it's a sign of just how bad things have got when even you lose it on TW. I only thought I would ever see it if we got relegated! So cheer up, it hasn't happened - yet.

Same again next Groundhog season - It's Everton that.

While those above us will be shopping at Harrods or, at least, Waitrose we'll once again be rummaging through the £ shop short dated shelf.

Fernandinho, Rodri city
Fred, Mc Tominay, Matic utd
Kante, Jorginho, chelsea
Henderson, milner, wiynaldum - the shit
Charles haughtry, Kenneth Williams - us

Unlike yourself I couldn't enjoy my football if we were 15th because that would mean we keep losing. It's a results business not performance art like ballet. In terms of results we were four points short of our objective. I'm not happy about it but I did enjoy watching all those away wins because we won which is what matters to me.

As for sacking Carlo, his history apart, many wanted to sack Moyes in his second season when we were 17th. We didn't and the next year we were fourth. Since then any time we've drifted near 17th or even 15th we sacked our manager. We done it several times in quick succession and clearly it didn't work. So I'm suggesting we try something we have previously done with just Kendall and Moyes in the last three decades and that is give the guy some more time

Jerry Garcia about sums this season up for me. May we never see it's like again.

Result bad, performance bad

But let's not kid ourselves this club hasn't achieved anything for a very long time.

There are only so many decades tales of Ball, Catterick, Kendall, Reid, Gray et al can be peddled out for. It's an absolutely pitiful state of affairs. The clearout/changes (which will never happen). Need to start at Finch Farm.

I'm firmly behind the manager. Our failings were down to Martinez initially. Then it was Koeman's fault. Then it was Allardyce's fault. Then it was Silva's fault. Well it's achieved absolutely nothing changing all of those managers and sticking with the players.

Our players perennially put their flip flops on around April when our season is over. Carlo called them out after the Sheff U match. He's not blameless - some of his selections, formations and subs have baffled me. But he's done enough in football for us to have faith that he can get players in to improve us.

We need to get rid of the weak core at the club. Bernard, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Delph, Iwobi etc. We need young, hungry players who play every week and are determined to succeed. While these players remain in our dressing room, the foot will always come off the pedal in April, regardless of who is in charge. The elephant in the room is players who can't be arsed. We need 2/3 players to come in, but 6/7 to leave.

Ancelotti was the 2nd coming a world class manager who would turn us into winners.

He may well do that with another season or 2 at the helm, we will see.

Still hurts like hell though.

However I do support lively discussion because being an Everton supporter is still the most important thing in life. I know that because my long suffering wife told me..

I think Carlo thought he was coming to EFC on a 'tuning' mission, but pretty quickly it became obvious, that in fact he was on a 'building' job. This is not something that he is used to.

Will he succeed? Yes, because his record suggests, that he is good enough to be both a builder and a tuner. If he were not 'up for the challenge' he would be starting next season at either Real Madrid or Spurs. I'm confident that he won't be at either of those places. He seems to be in this for the long haul... which is just as well!

By the way 'Burnt Orange'... my arse; that sash is Red!!

"Fan-led" football review panel, apparently. Sure it is. How many fans was that? Oh, only one.

Two members from women's football of course, you know, it representing a solid 20% of top flight football and all. I said at the time, don't invite the government in.

Watch and weep down the line as it becomes an "In" for even more politics as very predictable "Issues" become further included and piggy-backed onto the sport. Monitoring bigger teams, listening to fans... er, what does that mean?

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

This awful season is down to the manager. After our honeymoon period at the start season, we fell apart. International players don't suddenly start playing crap. The manager is the boss, and his managerial skills at our club, have been sadly lacking.

Everton FC are not the your normal club. A big name manager doesn't mean anything. We need someone close to the club. Someone who knows the club. David Moyes, with the resources he had available did his best. When was our last success? Royle and Kendall.

We will go nowhere with Ancelotti. The only time I've seen Everton playing with spirit and determination is when Duncan Ferguson was temporarily in charge. Give Big Dunc a year, not 2 months. Otherwise, it's the same old shite with some foreign manager, doing the same old shite.

Yep. The problem, I believe.

Normally our away points tally is about 60% of the home form and considering that we amassed so few points at home our total would have seen us close to being relegated. Let this be a warning for those long contract players who intend to carry on in the same fashion next season.

We can only hope that full home attendances will be allowed in the new season and that the fans will let these shysters know immediately what they think of them.

I think it's reasonable to say (in fact, didn't Carlo himself say as much?) that, away from home, our tactics were to play more defensively, in the knowledge that we have too many defenders short on quality (especially pace on the turn). Hence a deep defensive line, and with the midfield staying back in support. And that, allied to poor offensive abilities in midfield, meant that we were never in a position to create many chances. I think the stats show that our conversion rate was not bad – and that the problem is creating chances in the first place.

At home, we tried to open up - but given those defensive frailties, and the lack of midfield offensive ability, we both opened ourselves up to concede goals, while not having the ability to compensate with goals of our own.

I wouldn't argue for one minute that Carlo hasn't made mistakes - for example, some of the substitutions have left many of us wondering. I suspect he's still been trying to see this season who he could start with in each game, in what formations, against which opposition. Form has deserted some players at points in the season (Richie, DCL, etc at times). And injuries have depleted the squad: among others, of our 3 main signings, all have suffered significant injuries and time out - often two if not three of them at the same time. And fair to say that as the season has worn on, their contribution has diminished, notwithstanding injuries. Squad weaknesses have left us with next to no quality cover.

So looking forward, I think it's pointless screaming "go now, Carlo" as I just can't see Moshiri getting rid or Carlo moving on (and could we really attract the likes of Potter or Cooper?!). Carlo is surely with us for next season at least. So let's move on - to the other main question of squad changes.

It's been said before, nothing innovative in what I'm saying - we need to clear the decks of quite a few (I think most of the names, most of us are agreed on). That will surely continue to happen.

And obviously we need to make further signings. We need a few signings of already-proven quality. Again, I think most of us are agreed on the positions to strengthen - but for me, given the above analysis, we need to start with strengthening the defence - allowing us to move further up the pitch and to free up the midfield more so that they can contribute more offensively. But we also need to strengthen that midfield with some creative play. And further quality to convert the chances. Ally that to a few more signings with potential.

I rely on the Robert Tressells and Mike Gaynes' of this world for clues on signings! And a certain Mr Brands.

The debate over Carlo has been had, ad infinitum. We've all said our piece on that score, numerous times. He's here for next season, so let's now move on to debate signings.

Today we finished beneath Leeds in the final standings. You remember Leeds? That club that's spent the best part of the last twenty years in the lower leagues.

Everybody at the club should be ashamed of themselves today. Some need to go. Moshiri is a money man but not a football man. We need a David Dein or Ed Woodward figure to emerge from the shadows and grab this dysfunctional club by its bollocks.

Keep the faith.
Our day will come

On the plus side, for him this year, he's just become a double billionaire according to Forbes, whilst the guy he accounts for has this year reportedly "earned" nigh on £two billion personally.

Maybe we'll get some new lawn-mowers after all then, if he again asks the chairman that is.

Your staying true to form old chap

With all due respect what have both Robert and Mike ever won at the highest level?

As much as I enjoy their posts they have no pull over who we sign, I or any Evertonian could pick a decent player if we saw one, it's whether our management team fancy them that counts.

No disrespect Robert and Mike by the way.

Easy going Carlo would have fitted spurs better they have decent players and don't need a complete rebuild. Conversely Jose would have put a long overdue bomb under this place and cleared the deadwood in 5 mins flat. Not that he'd get a chance some of our fans don't do radical.

👍👍

You're a loon.

And I never for once suspected they have any pull over signings!

Strange.

I don't think so. Kane says Mourinho failed caused only he embraced Mourinhos winning attitude

Brent

I thought your post was uplifting till you suggested Cooper was too good for us

John McFarlane

You've see much more than me but bad though it is we've both seen much worse

Not typos, falsehoods like our points tally being lower than recent years or Hudson being slower. Typos are mistakes not untrue statements designed to reinforce an opinion

Me either but I think Gaynes and Tressell could've played better today than some

Spot on mate.

Like saying to one of the best joiners in the world.A master craftsman.
"The brief is to build a magnificent timber house. Apologies, I have no timber available. Could you improvise"

Please note that this is an emotional post after seeing the worst Everton performance I've seen in 60 years, one which the club should be ashamed of and should apologise to the fans for. It is my opinion, I'm happy to learn from being shown wrong.

All the angst on here is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on a ship that's stuck in the doldrums.

The criticisms of Ancelotti are naive and laughable. All PL managers are paid millions, no matter who they are, but the ones who manage the very top teams have massive financial resources backing them.

Get real folks, and reduce your blood pressure.

I'm not saying I'm happy at the state of the club, but sometimes it's glass half full.

We buy players and then they regress after they've arrived , some even completely ineffective, unwanted and unsellable . Who would bet against us buying players in the summer and them turning into worthless deadwood on massive contracts within a year or so?

Robert earlier talked about the transfer strategy having to shift dramatically. We can only hope.

Martin talks about Finch Farm, there's got to be something wrong there. We don't play as a team and the basics of our play are substandard. Why do players so often regress so the basics can seem elusive?

How is Bielsa getting so much out of his Leeds team and us getting so little out of ours? They have, allegedly, a poorer squad but they more motivated, well drilled, and will run for 90mins, they look like they are all on the same page and fighting for each other . They look like they will stand up to any team and give it a right go under any circumstances.

Why can't we have some of that at Everton, at the moment we are still without any identity.

Last week someone posted about getting Paul Clement in as a training ground Tsar. I'm not sure of who would be suitable but an injection of supreme professionalism to oversee all that goes on in training and be given authority to make positive changes could be money very well spent.

Fundamental changes are necessary, and that means making hard decisions that will ruffle feathers and cause upset.

We cannot let that stop us trying to fix structural problems at the club.

Anyway, it's late. Tomorrow is another day and the sun will come up as it always does. After the pain the optimism will return and we'll soon be speculating excitedly about the new season.

The problem with Everton Football Club is that it has lost its footballing soul. It's only hope is Evertonians.

Did Ancellotti make us a defensive team because he doesn't trust his current defenders? I wish I could say “I can't wait until next season to find out” but I'd be telling lies, because like James Rodriguez, I'm fatigued!

David 321 if you keep buying and keeping crocks at the club don't be surprised you have a poor injury record

Brendan 319, if that is what £13 million a year gets you, progress indeed

Don't worry before the game was even played one expert announced that he was writing his season end explanation as to how Carlo is the root of all evil. He didn't give a lot of spoilers but acolytes and sycophants apparently play a key role.

City were light years ahead. Every tune they went forward the looked like scoring

Some very bad performances. But glimmers of hope! (I like to try and stay positive)

Godfrey had a mixed game. Certainly looked shocked at times but he kept on going. If nothing else he showed persistence.

Pickford was a spectator in virtual all the goals with little of no chance to save. He made some decent saves and ended the season looking like the keeper we first signed, al be it having just conceded 5!!

We probably won't see Bernard, Iwobi or Holgate again! And that's good!

Since then he's got fabulously richer whilst the club and its fans have had to sup footballing gruel, delivered personally by him for decades.

Can anyone name one other club that's had to endure the same bloke in the owner/chairman role for 32 consecutive fucking years?

And yet there's still so much comment on the effectiveness or otherwise of our fabulously accomplished manager. Jeez!

Even our Dazza, a mysteriously deranged fan of any Kenwright appointed ex-player coach as he is, has always like me spelt out the culpability of the current chairman.

And me and Dazza ain't alone, thankfully.

I just hope Mosh reads this site and then, for once, makes good decisions for us.

'The Gash with the Sash'

Do you not remember the HKIII team? Oster, Farrelly, Tyler — who decided Charlton were a bigger club? This team may have a woeful lack of character (aside from Coleman, Godfrey and Pickford) but on a playing level their far above that team and others featuring Claus Thomson, Li Tie etc. if Tom Davies were in that HKIII team he'd be far and away one of the best players. That said it all. Then we had Smith bringing in Ginola and Gaza's. People mean about James but come on he's done more than those jokers. We also blew money on the likes of Radzinski, Davies and Beattie so Gomes and co are hardly the first expensive disappointments. Tenth is poor, 59 points is OK but keep some perspective. We didn't need a wrongly ruled out Bolton goal or a bribed Wimbledon goalie to keep us in the prem, neither did we fail to hit the 40 point mark like we did once under Moyes.

That's the thing, we had a far easier opponent last Sunday and they didn't show up. City are phenomenal, even if we played well we'd likely lose. We should have done better at home against so many weak teams.

We lost 5-0 to Manchester City. We were terrible, really awful but to cite John McFarlane(284), "There are far more important things in life". I totally agree with him,but Everton of very late do drive the normal rational human being to the edge of insanity. Apart from those who have already thrown themselves into the Mersey, I make a plea to just save yourselves, your children and of course your much maligned wives. In today's world world I must also include 'Partners'of either sex

You do have other options:
1. Lie to the family and friends with the soul destroying pledge to NEVER watch Everton again. You have nine weeks to change your mind.

2. Threaten to leave home. This may be welcomed by those who have just observed you watching the Man C game.

3.Chase your cat or dog around the house threatening to strangle it because it jumped in front of the TV just as Siggy was taking the penalty.That caused him to miss.

4.By far the most sensible option. Post on ToffeeWeb to the similarly deranged population telling the TW world how to change everything about your beloved 'Blues'so that they are guaranteed to win the Premier by at least 10 points next season.

5.Bring back the 'Death Penalty'for anyone connected with Everton

'
5, Just go to bed, say a prayer for Everton and hope Sunday was just one terrible NIGHMARE.

Which manager got sacked multiple times, turned recent Euro champs Greece into the worst team in Europe then won the league with a Leicester team that had finished 16th the year before? Who among us would've hired Ranieri? Carlo has a much better track record

If I'd known you were going to post so sensibly I'd have saved myself the trouble. Goodnight mate

There were some positives. We kind of shook off some hoodoos, at times we looked good, and we were in some sort of mix right up to the end.

But it's hard to feel anything but underwhelmed. Not angry, just underwhelmed.

I honestly don't see where the improvement comes from. We've got a few players worth building on, but the rest are your classic high wage low impact types. Improvement means we replace them with genuine quality and I just can't see it happening.

I reckon we're at complete rebuild time. And that means we've probably got the wrong manager.

The alternative is that we are about to go out and spend big on quality players. If that's the case then Ancelotti probably is the right man.

Transfer window will tell us a lot as to what our aims really are. If it's a combination of the two above, then our aim is to stay mid table and secure until the stadium is ready.

Je ne comprends pas. Captain? You having a go at Seamus? Maverick? We talking James Garner or Top Gun? Did you attend the Eric Cantona school of analogies?

75 million is one player to utd, city, Liverpool.

It's a pittance in terms of fees in terms of the top teams.

That's not defending the performance of the manager, it's just the reality of premier league transfer fees.

Ollie Watkins cost around 30 million and had a good first season, 14 goals I think. 30 million for 14 goals?

The disappointment of yesterday's result isn't so much that we got pumped by an outstanding team having a party on the last day of a championship winning season so much as that the team had to go into that match and win to have a chance of finishing in a European place.
Too many games dropping easy points. Too many missed chances.
Stick one of City's forwards in that Everton team and in all likelihood it would have been a 6th or 7th place finish.

Got to get more goals for n the team, and a real presence in the middle. Sounds like the same issue since Rom left!

Our season can be summarised as a) relegation form at home b) champions league form away c) squad that is paper thin on talent and lacking resilience d) functional football from a team who are poor in possession e) manager who has rotated despite the thinness of the squad and sometime got his tactics wrong.

Interestingly, we tried to play a higher line against City and made it very easy for them to turn or run beyond our defenders - well some supporters wanted a more adventurous approach and you got it!

Big summer ahead for Carlo and Brands. Klopp got seven transfer windows to transform his squad so I advocate patience.

UTFT!

I wouldn't shed too many tears if any of our current squad were to leave in the summer, apart from Ben Godfrey that is. He is the sort of player we need another 10 of, obviously in different positions, and he Ben, will be even better next year.

Well now that a disappointing Season is over for a few months, maybe people can concentrate on the TW Golf Day 27th August, had a very poor response from those in the Merseyside area, but a brilliant one from those a lot further afield. Come on guys you know it makes sense.

Sorry Eds for throwing that in at the end, but thought it better than doing yet another update on General Forum.

There has to be something drastically wrong somewhere, we were very fortunate in getting Farhad Moshiri on board when we did, but since then (and I don't believe it's just down to his Football naivety) we have had several different Coaches/Managers, paid astronomical fees for some players, and yet we don't seem any different (some may say worse) than when Moyes left.

That is one area we should be looking to improve off the field.

There is a consistency in Evertons performances season after season, no matter who the Manager is. When points are required to progress up the table, Everton usually fail to do so. They are more likely to stabilise their table position, failing then to progress. End of seasons are normally of a downward trajectory except on rare occasions, like the end of Silvas first season, which proved a false dawn at the beginning of the following season. This end of season was of a downward tranjectory, dependent on a lucky goal to put any meat on Evertons player performance and often instead resulted in a loss with no sign of recovery.

I hazard a guess that few will care two much about Everton's current situation within the Club, since Premier League football is assured as is their positions. Next season there is no demand on them other than to maintain that as their has been for years. This is the underlying reason for the lack of progress at Everton, which this season has resulted in a experienced world class Manager having to resort to formation manipulation and public condemnation to try to get his side to progress.

Quite frankly the players in the main where not to bothered and showed a lack of effort in preparation. Ancelotti had tried to lift the performance of individual players by individual coaching, but in the main players did not stick with what they where coached to do. The Man City game was full of Everton players not up to the performance needed. They where beat before they got on the pitch.

This is the prevailing Culture at Everton and the main drag on progress that Anchelotti is facing. Of course we all would like Everton stalwarts to be part of Everton progression, but their maintained existence season after season is the common denominator of Evertons failure. A Culture maintained by Everton's failure of a Chairman. Actually the current Board is the worse Board Everton has ever had, with a semi detached main shareholder.

.

We have all seen these familiar Everton patterns. There is a willingness within the Club to except such patterns and even a Culture to work towards them. The only persons that seem in the Club expendable are the Manager and his personnel team.

So next season Ancelotti is facing the same resistance to change. Moyes survived because he was part of the Culture and never was under pressure to progress. He is the last Manager to be in that position. Ancelotti is in that same position pressure wise, but has a reputation to live up to and has a winning mentality. We are now dependent on this and Ancelotti stomach to push for change against a build in Cultural resistance at Everton.

I have excepted that Everton are never going to be a force again, nearly 30 years of PL football for one FA Cup win. A look across the park shows you what winners look like and we unfortunately are on a different planet, as trophy cabinets show. But still we have our songs and stories about history. Absolutely shambolicly run club.

After the season Everton have just had, I geniunely hope that they have training today.

Calvert-Lewin has 9 weeks to learn how to shoot.

Richarlison has 9 weeks to learn how to be physically imposing.

Digne has 9 weeks to find that left boot of his again.

Davies has 9 weeks to learn how to pass forward, shoot and create.

Holgate has 9 weeks to find a new club.

Sigurdsson has 9 weeks to figure out if he wants to play football.

The rest of them have 9 weeks to improve almost every aspect of their game. Every day they spend with their feet up in a chair puts them further and further behind where they think they are as footballers.

Pickford
Sidibé Holgate Keane Mina Digne
Iwobi Davies Sigurdsson Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin

Liverpool won 5-2. No further comment.

Sport is about many things but talent is usually the main ingredient, and whatever way we try and dress it up, Everton don't have enough talented players in their squad.

Many have called to be more adventurous at home - our record was about 6 wins and losses (not even draws) to relegated clubs aside aside West Brom. The season was shambolic - thank goodness we had a great start and thank goodness we eeked out a lot of 1-0 wins - a lot undeserved - away from home otherwise could have been a catastrophe.

I don't really expect Carlo to be the answer to decades of decline, certainly not in the space of a couple of seasons. He has raised the profile of the club and brought in better players than many previous incumbents.

It is my hope that Ferguson will serve his time with an old master and learn his trade well and then take the reins in a few years time. Personally, I feel it is easier to accept defeat when you know the players have given their all, when their pain reflects the pain of the fans.

The mercenaries in the club will prove very expensive to move on.

I was bitterly disappointed by yesterday's abject submission but I retain a degree of objectivity as I didn't really expect us to take anything from the game. Looking at the competition we are light years away and truly huge investment is no guarantee of success. As a club we seem to have no identity other plucky little underdogs that never recovered from a body blow in the eighties; an irrelevance now.

I would much rather throw (admittedly other people's) money at developing an effective youth set up, focus on the long term: I would much rather watch the likes of Dowell or Beningeme than Delph or iwobi.

Yesterday was a real sickener in terms of the result and performance, but for those, including me, who still harboured European football next season, even if we'd won we still wouldn't have made Europe because of Spurs winning. A real chance blown, not the champions league because I think that chance went after the drawn home game against Palace, but for the Europa league and certainly this new European conference league, which I think Spurs will be firm favourites to win, with or without Harry Kane. Talking of Harry Kane, should he join Man City this summer, and I think he will, then the premier league might just as well engrave city's name on the trophy for season 21/22, because they will romp it with his goals.

Where we have been 'unfortunate' is the people Moshiri has been advised by and backed. Steve Walsh was supposed to be the mastermind behind Leicester's title win having pestered Ranieri to buy Kante. I think we have all seen given Leicester's continued successful recruitment that Walsh had fuck all to do with it, I think his only recommended buy was Sandro and that speaks volumes. Koeman also sanctioned the sale of Lukaku and replaced him with players who would score more goals all over the pitch: Rooney, Klaasen and Gylffi. Failed.

Silva's had to buy was Richarlison and at 50m looks like we have had our pants pulled down currently. Has the potential to come good but I am not convinced as yet.

People have spent Farhad's money as if it wasn't their own, he has been badly advised without doubt. As Mark has pointed out in 370, too many of the same shite are still in the starting line up. That needs to change dramatically if we are ever going to win stuff.

Maybe Ancellotti, has just started laying his own base, because let's face it when he arrived at Everton, there was absolutely no such thing in place.

At best..." they sentenced me to twenty years or boredom "

At worst " I gave seen the future. It is murder ".
Happy summer to you all !

Unready and unprepared, an embarrassing shambles against a team who many thought might be tiptoeing around. Lose when you're expected to.

The sickness at Everton FC will continue for ever if all supporters of the club don't realise how poisonous the unambitious torpor that emanates from the board and infects the players. Money for nothing and yer chicks for free. Pathetic.

Cue news about the new ground to try and stifle dissent.

I agree with most of the comments in your post but you are absolutely wrong in believing that relegation would have been the catalyst to positively transform the fortunes of the club.

Relegation at any time during the years of mediocrity under Kenwright's ownership would have seen the club eventually fall into League 1 without any hope of rescue.

We can carry on being the pillars of society that we undoubtedly are.Dont compete for any titles but remain everyone's second favourite club.
Or we can get ruthless and progress.

Also, the era you describe pre-dates me. But I note that in the Premier League there are usually 4 sides with a more expensively assembled second XI than our first XI. How would the likes of Clough have fared with that kind of handicap?

Roman Sidney # 369 - I am with you. Some scoffed when I suggested sand dunes training but that is what this lot needs. That would sort them out. Half of them would be on the phone to their agents after a few days of that. I wouldn't feed most of them.

While I was pondering our latest humiliation my thoughts wandered to “The Battle of Goodison”. I had a worms eye view of Giles launching himself at Sandy Brown on that day. Retribution was swift. Can you imagine some of these players fronting up to the likes of Hunter, Brenner & Co. They are frightened of getting hurt some of them.

It will all end in tears. As usual !

It's been a very difficult time for most during the pandemic and every bit of fun and entertainment was to be welcomed. It's a pity that our team provided so little in the past 38 games!

One bright note, I hope my memory is not letting me down,
but did we not take a hiding from City on the last day in 2003/4 before the Euros, lost Rooney in the transfer window and made top 4 in 2004/5 season. Maybe another miracle is just around the corner.

Enjoy the summer folks and hopefully, after a deserved break for us fans, things will look brighter come August.

Yesterday proved once again that no matter what Carlo asks them to do with his tactics there is no one on the field to dictate to the players how to follow the plans, only Pickford could claim any credit for that non performance, the way Agouro was left in acres of space from the moment he came on was one of many head scratching moments of trying to fathom out what was going on, we looked like we were part of the pantomime to see the crowning of City as champions, stooges not competitors, I was just glad it stayed at 5-0, it could have been a record score for the premier league, a bum fighting a World Champion in boxing terms.

Carlo finally gave the young French kid, Knouknou eighteen minutes of football, the only minutes he has played for any Everton team since before Christmas, he didn't look too bad did he? Mind you I'm comparing to the rest of the Everton players.

So on to next season, maybe Carlo has been shelving his real plans until he has his own squad, I hope James and Allan, his two big signings are not part of it, or any more over aged and past their best days.

For me we have a number of steps to take;

Clear out the players who are just not up to the task and these have been listed by many of us above.

Instil a sense of pride to be playing for Everton, a desire not to lose and to fight to the end of a game. We can do it, we did it against Man.U.

Before we go out and spend/waste a lot more money develop a game plan then get players that suit that plan. If it is sitting back and defending then hitting teams on the break we need guys who are a bit faster than those we have and defenders who can see the situation and play the ball forwards.

We need players who can at least know what colour shirts we are playing in and not just constantly give the ball away to the opposition.

Let's hope we get some action in the close season

The best football at the start of the season was 8 or 9 months ago. In 2021 apart from a one or two blips the quality football has been appalling. Not many goals, not creating many decent chances and not seeing any joined up play. We don't have any identity or playing style, it seems like a disorganised free for all when we cross the white line. I've often seen much better quality football from lesser teams and squads since Christmas.

We should be asking the questions, “ is it just about the players ? Will recruitment on its own fix the problems ? Or do the problems run deeper ; training methods?, cosy family club culture?, lack of professionalism and ruthlessness at all levels in pursuit of improvement ?

I want an end to us being a passive club and start making things happen rather than sitting back and reacting to the latest malaise.

Nobody at the club should be going on holiday, or resting or recharging batteries. Today should be a day for pressing the reset button on what Everton FC is. A professional football club that exists primarily to win football matches. No thought should be given to anything else until we are achieving that.

Tony, the team was Brothers Rugby Club (spit) and they are a club that expects to be competing for the titles every year. It's amazing what that mentality can do to the fabric of a team.

That, in my opinion, is the issue, too many players that don't give flying toss for the shirt. We pay overs to get players to join and they take the piss.

Without the early season games and a fair number of wins away from home that bore a degree of good fortune, we would have been firmly mired in a lower table battle.

Carlo is living on past glories and that does not interest me and it seems the players are simply not responding to his instructions either on the training field or from the sidelines during a match.

I am starting to lose faith in him and lost faith in Brands a long time ago - we say it all too often at this club but a very big summer does await and both Carlo and Marcel Brands need to do a substantial amount more for their money in my view - Carlo's comments about being 'satisfied' hit a very hollow note for sure.

These are all professional footballers who have come through all of the academies at top-level clubs. Forget the wages they are on for a minute, but there has to be qualities in each and every player that a manager can bring out and my feeling is that Ancelotti may be leaving the training and drills to somebody else whilst he walks his dog along Crosby beach.

He can't be allowed to throw the whole squad under the bus. He has to be able to drag everything out of them and instill his knowledge of the game into them. There are other managers doing it within lesser squads than ours. We pay him a fortune to be able to do that.

He has to step up because, if it's only elite players he wants at his disposal, then we are in for a very torturous time over the next season or so. He also has to be directly responsible for any players coming in because it's too easy to wash your hands if they are not your players.

Moshiri is as guilty as anybody because I see no leadership from him. Firing Kenwright would be a start. He needs to make a statement of some kind about the football side of the club and what he expects from the manager and players alike.

I'm sick to my stomach with the poor management and shit-show this season and although I know a few of the players are average, I also know that in our own history we have done great things with squads of mixed abilities.

How is it that all the Man City players – including their second XI – can receive the ball anywhere on the pitch and seemingly anywhere on their body at whatever velocity it is delivered and still manage to control it and send it to land unerringly at the feet of a team mate, who is invariably in space and able to move forward?

All of them are always it seems in space – they should all be sent to Cape Canaveral! In short, they are a fabulous team to watch and I for one had no expectations of us getting a sniff of anything.

Clutching at straws comes to mind, but probably expected from the club's perspective. More alarming is the passivity of the club's owner who seems to accept the fact that the current Chairman and CEO have spunked upwards of half a billion of his money on a team and consecutive managers with little sign of the team being in with a realistic chance of competing for the game's honours.

Having spent quite a few years in industry and commerce, I'm astounded the current incumbents have remained intact, without a whisper of a question mark being posed about their ability to 'change' the current culture of 'mediocrity' which pervades the club.

Meanwhile, the club's 'landmark' signing is allowed to jump ship two games before the season ends, without having the good grace to at least walk around the pitch (injury apart) at the end of the Wolves game, and thank those fans, particularly the kids, present, who attended the game.

What a PR gesture if he had been able to hand out a few tee-shirts to those present in view of the abject performances this season.

Meanwhile, our CEO makes a bizarre statement prior to the final game 'saying we have made real progress' on the field in the last 12 months.

We need radical change off the field as well as on it.

I am sick of seeing £Multimillionaire players who can't be bothered trying and offer no apology when they have a stinker. If they just want to go through the motions, perhaps a job in the sewers would suit them better.

The excuses of Carlo not having had enough windows are not good enough. There are teams in the Premier League below us who play as a team. It seems we have lots of individuals. It is up to the coach to instill teamwork.

Surely this team can play better; indeed, earlier in the season, the same lads performed better. There has been a loss of confidence at the club. I wonder what the dressing-room atmosphere is like?

Whatever Carlo is trying to do, it isn't working, and my worry is that our form has dropped off a cliff.

Standing still and selective judgements are useless to us.

Mr Marcel "I paid good money for Iwobi... and Kean, Delph, Sidibé" Brands – We still need a midfield... try and get one that doesn't crap out before the clocks go back this time.

I think confidence has been a big factor and it seems to have drained out of us somewhere along the road. You could see yesterday that all the Man City players wanted the ball. They were always moving into space.

Whenever one of our players has the ball, it too often seems that his teammates are not showing for the ball, not moving intelligently and the result is that a pass is forced and we lose possession. We need players who want the ball and have the energy and dynamism and intelligence to be constantly showing for it.

Hard to know how to apportion blame to the players or the coaches but both take a fair share. People want us to sell 10 players or so; I'm sure Brands would love to do that but shifting deadwood is likely to prove even harder this summer than ever before, and therefore it's highly probable that many of the likes of Gomes, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Delph, Iwobi, Bernard etc will remain on the books.

4 good new players could help. A right-winger with pace who can score goals, a dynamic right-back who can overlap and put in dangerous crosses, a central-midfielder who can carry and pass the ball forward, and perhaps even a central-defender who can play a high line a distribute well.

The quality of player we can attract may be diminished by us finishing 10th rather than 6th or 7th but it's down to Brands to find us the next Pedro Neto, Reece James, Ndidi and Fofana.

I thought that we would play 4-5-1 yesterday, even when I saw the team sheet. After acknowledging that we have only won twice out of 15 games when not starting out trying to play a defensive game, “losing to all the bottom teams in the process”, you do wonder what his motives were yesterday? This considering we were playing the best team in the country, and have already fallen short against them twice, whilst playing our best formation, which is unfortunately a defensive game.

Ancelotti has had one summer transfer window to sign new players. This is a big rebuilding job and there are a large number of players – internationals or not – who have proven in the last 2-3 years that they don't have the quality to take this club forward.

For me, the biggest disappointment has been the performance of the manager. He has lacked consistency in team selection and tactics. No matter what system he decides upon, whether it be 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-3-1-2, there seems to a genuine lack of structure to the play and an understanding of their role by the players.

TWers often complain about us playing with three 'holding' players but I contest that none of them actually plays a holding role protecting the centre of the defence, filling in for centre-backs, pushing forward etc. I just can't see him turning things around – no matter who he brings in.

If it's true that Koeman wasn't allowed to bring in Sammy Lee, what impression do you think it must have had on a mercenary like Ronald?

The club needs revamping from the top down imo, and whilst I agree Brands has got a few wrong, he does look to be revamping the system underneath the first team squad, and seems to be trying to take away a few of the comfort zones that appear to run right through Everton FC.

I wasn't even reading your posts, I just notice how often the poor Kenwright joke or boring old line is mentioned throughout the thread.

How many semis and quarters have we bottled it in games we were supposed to be the stronger side, Tony?

I am shocked at the lack of perspective on here from people who are generally mature and well experienced enough to use perspective.

I'd talk with you all day, Tony, you seem sound but not over gossip. Mortgages and trainsets etc.

We went into a semi against the shite a few seasons back, favourites to win and looking great in the league... Did we show all of our team a picture of Kenwright that day?

I don't think many of us did think Carlo could quickly turn it around. We did expect improvement in tactics and motivation at least, not to mention fitness levels. I can't see much improvement, to be honest, in any of those levels.

As I said in a post above, maybe he has other plans for next season with a few changes in the squad, the more the better.

It's been largely the same stuff served up, week-in & week-out, for 25 years, give or take a season or two, but this latest drudgery has been a constant since we failed to sign anyone after Martinez's first season (excluding loans). Different managers, different players.

The only thing that will alter this is a wholesale change in mindset from the top down. Because being fucking nice, and having a charity and hiring ex players etc etc etc doesn't fucking win you football matches. So, until he's gone and his cronies with him, don't expect to be challenging for anything soon.

And I wouldn't even expect that, given the complicity of the support base, who have become so accustomed to mediocrity under this management, they can no longer see the wood for the trees. What a sad and sorry state of affairs – a completely rank average, pointless football club that simply makes up the numbers but loves to give itself a pat on the back because it apparently does things well... except where it really counts.

I think one player who has vastly improved this season is Pickford. From a total knobhead who instilled zero confidence in the defence, jumping about all over the place, he has certainly settled down over the season.

I think Ancelotti bringing in and rotating Olsen with Pickford has certainly made him focus. I have to admit I was really having doubts about Pickford as our Number 1 but, as the season has progressed, for me, he has been one that I've not been concerned about – it's the rest of them!!!

It sickens me Paul, the Everton way? Imagine what a world famous footballer must genuinely think when he hears such bollocks.

That semi-final, I've said it before, but we only lost that game because of the mentality of the manager and his captain imo mate, and after coming out of the Stadium of Light having witnessed arguably the greatest backing I've ever heard Everton get (definitely in the top three), I had a vision of the Guinness advert, and the word “believe”.

I thought the only way we wouldn't beat Liverpool is if we didn't believe in ourselves. I actually told my mate who was close to Alan Stubbs, that I wanted to talk to Stubbsy. “What for?” He asked, and I told him it was because I wanted him to ask Moyes if I could do the team talk at Wembley.

So we never beat Liverpool because I never got to do the team talk... Although that's just a load of shite, I think it's only us Evertonians who really understand Everton Football Club. If I'd wasted half the money that Moshiri has spent, I would definitely be looking to revamp the museum.

My main worry is that we haven't seen any signs of the team playing in a certain style, as you would expect after a year of being coached by a new manager. So far, we have just seen grim defensive displays away from home and home displays that are a complete shambles. All of it, whether home or away, has been dreadful to watch.

Can it really be the players' fault? After all, they are nearly all international footballers for their respective countries.

Changing managers every 5 minutes is not the answer but so far I haven't seen anything impressive about the current incumbent.

Take Leeds for example. The impact that Marcelo Bielsa has had is enormous, I would have expected the same from Ancelotti. The Leeds players aren't any better than ours but, boy, look at the way they play – they are not frightened of anybody.

Mybe we have got a major problem that runs right through the club?

Stan. 317 Leeds are above us and deservedly so. Big spenders?

Many heartfelt posts. Painful. When Goodison had supporters back, people posted how they were all behind Carlo. They could see what he was trying to do. I've been waiting for a season and a half to see what he's trying to do...

Posters saying it's not the manager's fault. Whose is it? The players? If they aren't good enough and will never improve, get rid of them, whether they are local or not.

In his first half-season, he should have had them fitter and a lot more organized. Sheffield United came up, fast, direct, and playing as a team. Leeds the same.

I'm disappointed in Carlo and his team.

I would have thought that he, his son et al would have realized that they couldn't go out and buy a load of players but would have tried to get the best out of what they had. Sadly, it didn't happen. I don't think it will.

Every Blue supporter could see we needed a right-back and at least two forwards. It was never addressed. We don't have any pattern or any style.

Like many, I've been a Blue for over 60 years, many read but don't post. I've seen good, bad and indifferent. This is draining my spirit.

I'm not paid millions to solve the problem. I hope our current management team can; however, I doubt it.

Something rotten in the state of Denmark.

It makes no sense whatsoever and Koeman brought his brother, remember. Do you think not having Sammy Lee in tow helped Koeman sort his brother out?

I anticipate some shocks on the outs and a surprise among the incoming. I am not claiming to be in the know but I believe that Carlo knows who he can use going forward, players that can cope with a change of shape during a game. He will have identified the character of player that he needs and the remainder will be contacting their agents to find a new club.

There you have it, a died-in-the-wool Blue, glass half-full and keeping the faith. I sincerely wish all Blues a happy and safe summer and I look forward to rubbing shoulders with you next season at Goodison. COYB.

May 2021
We need to get rid of Iwobi, Bolasie, Besic, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Keane as they are not good enough and chokers.
Seamus has been a great servant but legs are gone. We need a new right back
We need pace and goals from midfield. Give Carlo time and he will sort this out ! Big summer for Brands!

May 2022
We need to get rid of Iwobi, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Davies, Walcott, Keane as they are not good enough and chokers.
Seamus has been a great servant but legs are gone. We need a new right back
We need pace and goals from midfield. Give Carlo time and he will sort this out ! Big summer for Brands!

I did not submit the post as such posts get slammed on here for showing negativity.

In hindsight I was pretty much spot on, except for City's line up, which was a surprise. Aguero would have got his 3 but for Pickford. Although in my prediction's defence I did expect he was going to play from the start in his farewell game.

To my knowledge we have rolled over now at champions' parties at Arsenal, Leicester and City. We are utterly unprofessional in everything we do concerning football and I think that the people running the club have forgotten what our principal reason for being actually is!

We are a laughing stock.

Some people on here are looking forward to next season. I am realistically just expecting more of the same shite we have served up for knocking on for 30 odd years! At least where is the evidence that it won't be?!

Frustrating and exasperating, the Everton way!

Sorry but I am really pissed off with the lot of them!

With the absence of crowds, it's simple common sense that Goodison will lose much of that ‘bear pit' character, and that the difference will be greater than for most other grounds. All teams' home form has been affected this season, and it is no surprise that Everton's has been affected more than most.

This factor has to be accounted for in assessing our finishing position of 10th. Perhaps this factor should provide some perspective on the disappointing end to the season.

But Leeds don't have the hype like we do. We keep wanting to be elite, at the very top, but we don't spend anywhere near enough to achieve that.

If Moshiri's ‘project' is simply staying midtable in the PL, then the expenditure on players fits that. But if the ‘project' is getting to the top, it's a different matter.

Still taking time out and gathering my thoughts on the season. Not the worst team I've seen in the context of a season, and sadly not even the worse performance or result. Those Arsenal ones stick in the mind, especially the one where the poor Evertonian got caught on camera asleep having given up. And I don't even think that was the 7-0 one. And lets not even start with the 5-0 Derby defeat at Goodison in my youth. Distraught and inconsolable with that one.

But my word that was shocking even if City are a joy to watch in world football right now.

Missed opportunity in a season of many missed opportunities. But all I can do is look forward to next season.

I just need a few days to get that out of my very hurt system. Everton not in Europe and Schalke in Bundesliga 2. Off to console with the dogs again. They're looking at me and they nod agreeingly at my every word. It helps.

I read an interview with Koeman where he said that he wanted to bring Sammy but Sammy himself and Kenwright told him the fans would never accept that. Obviously that seems silly in hindsight but maybe Sam was a tougher negotiator and or Koeman was largely focused on his wage

Sammy- He's probably right Ronald, so you're best just getting on with it, considering the money they're paying you mate.

All's I'm saying is that if I was part of the negotiation team, I'd have “demanded” Sammy Lee came with Koeman, because he had been part of his back room staff at Southampton, because of his professionalism, and because he's been involved in top level football for most of his life.

Everton have shown an amazing lack of this for the most part and every game was a game to lose because they really were a shambles at times.

Sigurdsson's awful penalty put the kibosh on his awful season and it is time to get rid of players like him who just don't do what it takes in the midfield areas. If Tom Davies had a turn of speed, I would say he would be the only one I would keep because of his work ethic... but the rest I would gladly accept bids for.

Finishing 10th has to go down as a big failure on the part of Carlo and his staff and I seriously question if he has anything more to offer than what we have witnessed already.

"If Tom Davies had a turn of speed, I would say he would be the only one I would keep."

He hasn't got a turn of speed. Do you want him to leave?

Bolasie and Walcott are gone, contracts expired.

What recent evidence are you relying on to show that Carlo is capable of sorting out this mess? A lot of it is of his own making and the final table position indicates he has lost his magic touch with a vengeance.

Clueless team selection, outdated tactics, and weird and wonderful substitutions is all most of us can make of it... but perhaps some are misguided by his avowed love of Crosby. A clever tactic, that!

For years I thought we could get back to the summit of English football but with each false dawn, we just seem further away from ever achieving anything. I feel a complete mug for thinking during this season that we were on our way. Why couldn't I see that we still had an awful lot of players who let us down last season? We're too sentimental as a club. Gomes had a nasty injury but he'll come good. Seamus is a great servant. Kenwright is one of us, Brands gave Moise's mum a shirt, we're great In the Community etc. etc. Who, out of our squad would get into a top 4 team? Godfrey, possibly? Few others would.

We'll launch a new kit though and I'll probably part with my cash. We'll have a few marquee signings and I'll start thinking “he's what we've lacked for years”. I'll watch Deadline Day and see that promising player we were linked with stay where he was. We'll win a few games in the sunshine and I'll start believing. After Christmas, we'll come down with the decorations and be arguing on TW. We'll probably crash out of both cups ignominiously and after Easter and play like the players are already on the beach.

Repeat.

It's the hope that kills you. The thought of the one derby game or season you turn your back on being the turning point. It's like a drug but is terrible for my mental well-being.

What will change this summer though?

Just because he has struggled at times and doesn't match the skill of Pogba doesn't mean he can't be an important squad player.

Craig Walker brilliant post. Just be realistic mate its not half as painful and while people are waiting for Gomes Siggurdson and Holgate to become what they are hyped as, you'll be wide awake.

Best thing to do is, not pretend you know what the tactics were, don't moan about the side until the game is over and don't hype one or two good performances from any player.

And if you are defending a player who is playing shite, compare him to someone good, not someone else who is also playing shite for us.

Not comparing him to Pogba.
Comparing him to the likes of Mount, Foden, Gilmour.
All younger than Tom and all far better players.
If we want to progress these types are the players we want.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure as an Everton fan than seeing a team full of young scousers.
We cant be blinded by that.

"What I see now is an existential threat to Everton,"

Lucky no one mentioned the dirty fork

The odds don't favour it at all and only a miracle could make that happen .The points you have made about transfers are hard to argue with and that is another reason we don't need a massive fixture list of inconsistant kick off times.

Its sad really but football has made it this way. The elite has made it this way. I'd hate us to become a europa side that struggles to make the top 7 and the balance will never shift if clubs our size can't upset the top 4.

And it'll be 5 from this league soon enough. We need to crack that code.

Thomas not having a go mate or suggesting who you compare him to but balance and perspective should be the outcome and i have no doubt he could be a good squad player.

Caraboa cup and games v the bottom sides where we need to rest players.

I know you weren't mate.
You don't post in that manner.

I hope I'm wrong re Tom. 👍

After watching our second half of the season slide, and frankly just being furious since the Brighton game, I've reflected. The disappointment and frustration are still very, very real.

Here it comes - BUT!

We're in good hands people. We are.

We have an owner who has spared no expense chasing success and the footy dream. Finch Farm, the Liver Building, player acquisitions, managerial appointments, a new stadium plan and project, all of it. Moshri has dumped a small fortune into this Club. He's committed a hell of a lot of money and resources to our success. I honestly believe he will continue to do so.

We have a very, very successful manager. One who represents our Club as a gentleman and we should be proud of. He's made mistakes. But in the main he's done his level best with what's at his disposal.

I can't see anyone associated with Everton not doubling down and being less than 100% committed to turn this ship into a well oiled machine.

Let's give Brands the summer, back our owner who's done nothing less than back the Club in every single department, and give our manager the summer and another season to right the ship.

We, despite the disappointment and abject dross of the last few months, do NOT have a poor core of players. We will invest, of that I have NO doubt, and look to improve. Carlo can have another season to stamp his image on this Club. He wants to play more attractive, attacking football. He has an owner and a DOF who will try like hell to get him what he wants. We have a DOF who wants to buy young and wants sell-on value in my opinion.

The dark clouds are there. It's raining. But I think they'll part. There's too many talented individuals in decision making positions for the sun not to shine in the future.

That's my take.

It could still get worse. But the comforting thing is, with this trio of management in Moshri, Brands, and Ancelloti, the odds are in our favor long term.

I truly believe the above, having given it far too much thought the last 24 or so hours.

I'm going to keep the faith in no small part down to the fact that our leadership "team" is one that I'm confident will not rest until they see success.

He has been pretty open about the home form and I can't imagine any manager really that would want a youngster learning about defeat every other game.

Ideally, younger players looking to make an impression should be coming into a side thats bubbling with confidence.

Davies hasn't had much of that since he made his debut but there are times he should have also seized the opportunity better.

He should be believing he is better than Allan if he wants to play every week. Has he got that belief?

At the moment he is best kept quiet and helping the squad in my opinion and hopefully more quality comes in and he pushes on a bit.

Tom Davies for me is definitely a player who can be a valuable member of an Everton squad.

Deluded if you think he's about to be sacked! How naive.

Athletico Madrid have lost 2 Champions League finals to Real, including 1 thrown away. I don't know how their fans could ever come back from that locally.

Blimey it's hard to be a blue. As someone pointed out earlier we've had relatively few great seasons, about 10 for me, since and including 66 when I first became Everton aware

I guess I was tricked as a naive kid to expect unbridled success and once you are sucked in there is no going back.

My Blackpool supporting mate thinks I complain too much and that I should be glad to support a Premier League team but of course it doesn't work like that and is not that simple!

What a rollercoaster of small ups and huge downs it is being a blue but there is no escape.

Ah diddums. Never mind, give it another couple of years or so, and you never know?

Carlo, The headless tackling machine he paid a fortune for...or Tom - championship at best -Davies.

Actually I don't wonder anything of the sort.

I do believe he ignores many other factors for the poor football other than the usual scapegoat for poor form.

I mean, how many more managers can these players make clueless?

But exactly. How often can most of this squad get away with blaming the managers? When you cross the line, you take responsibility.

The last player I remember our academy churning out who looked permanently comfortable on the ball was Rooney. Until that changes, we won't be changing the style of football so what is the point changing the manager again?

Want to know why kids from Everton-supporting families end up supporting Liverpool? Performances and results like that. On a regular basis.

These fools running and playing for the club are killing us.

It's total total garbage.

The football wasn't great but it was effective, which the manager openly admitted himself.

He's also said that, in the games where the formation wasn't so rigid, that we only won two out of fifteen, and therein lies the other problem: Why oh why did he change?

Agreed though. It's hard being a Blue.

My lad is 10 and he's experienced us beating that lot for the first time. His mates are all supporters of former Super League teams. I sometimes think “What have I done?” Hopefully our time will come. BMD is the only thing to be optimistic about at the moment.

The same players produce the same garbage results? Could just be the players?

The motto is no more than a joke – like anybody who would use it as an excuse to demand success.

How many of our players get into a Top 6 side? Very few. The squad is collectively poor, and why we are running through managers on a regular basis.

The only tactic that works is scoring first and park the bus. If we concede, it's game over as we don't have the legs, the technical ability, or goal threat to chase a game.

Do you really think Pep would get a tune out of Gomes, Sigurdsson, Keane, Holgate, Iwobi, Bernard, Delph, Davies et al? Not a chance.

Mirallas, McCarthy, Gueye, Lookman, Jagielka, Vlasic, Williams. Klaassen, Rooney, Funes Mori, Robles and Barkley all had nothing to do with Carlo looking shite.

Please stop saying it's the same group of players making a succession of managers look shite. The only people making these managers look shite are other managers – and of course themselves.

Ancelotti has four regular first teamers who were brought in on his watch. He has inherited a man he describes as one of his best captains. He has inherited a brilliant left-back. He has inherited one of the countries brightest young strikers, a Brazilian forward, and the England goalkeeper.His supporters claim he has improved most of the other players who were already internationals.

It's a manager's job to boost his players up, not blame them for his own shortcoming. Ancelotti signaled the beginning of his own end. It was disgusting to see him throw his own players under a bus with his stomach-churning "I'm not a magician!"

Breaking news, Carlo: Your players are not magicians either. The cowardly spoiling tactics you have adopted have made it difficult for any of them to shine.

By not trusting them enough to just go at and beat inferior opposition... you let them down.

You also let the club and the fans down by not going for the very rare opportunity presented to us. By chickening out and settling for Europe`s inferior tournament, you ended up fucking that up too!

Tony Abrahams, that could be down to many factors, mate. Was he getting the best out of them at that point? Were we fitter? Were other teams getting us at bad times for them?

Or does it mean he was great then but now he's shit?

I'd say there's been a culmination of faults and some from the manager but it's hard for players to climb the levels when the squad is drained.

Ian Bennett, that is a real comparison if I ever saw one. As if Pep could win titles with this lot.

10 of the players involved on Sunday played in Silva's last game after which he got the sack.

I remember Fergie throwing his team under the bus when they lost 1-6 at home to Man City. That was his lost, another busted flush. Only went on to win the league the next year.

Anyone peddling the line that a certain group of players have made a succession of managers look shite should go to the top of the home page. Click on Players and view the staggering turnover of players who have come and gone since the Ginger TTwat left. It's under "Transfers".

It's been done in a way that makes the comings and goings smack you between the eyes.

Same players? My arse.

Did we concentrate to much on a defensive system to the detriment of the squad?

Did we begin to play with a system that didn't suit the players, once we moved away from concentrating on protecting the back four?

Did we run out of steam because of injuries to key players, who also have to play every time they are fit?

Are we really unfit, or do we just lack a few to many players, with enough pace to play on the front foot?

I could go on, but I'd prefer to wait and see, and obviously by giving Ancelotti the benefit of the doubt, because of his standing in the game, and also because of the lack of foundation in both the club he joined, and the squad he inherited 18 months ago

Our goalkeeper is England's finest ahead of Man Utd's for England
Our left-back is ahead of Man City's Mendy for France
Our Brazilian striker is a Brazil regular who is preferred to City's Jesus
Our English striker is in front of Man Utd's Greenwood and 2nd only to Kane.

On Everton, he opens by pointing out they are a club never slow or shy about pointing out how they get it right off the field – but supporters have every right to ask when they might actually deliver something on it.

Having just snatched 10th place from the jaws of Top 6, it's hard to disagree.

It is debatable but to me it looks like Carlo went ultra-defensive because he lost faith in the midfield initially. The swings were so bad to the downside that the squad was willing to tough it out although their limited footballing sensibilities were being insulted. Then to all our amazement the squad found a new bottom and Carlo went public with his frustration. It is not a surprise that there was a bit of caving in as it all came to a close. The ones laying down didn't give a damn to begin with and Carlo was on to it.

In 2004 they beat us 5-1 on the last day of the season with the likes of Shaun Wright-Phillips. I remember having the same feelings then as now.

None of those players you mentioned are first choice starters for their teams except Henderson who took that crown about two weeks ago.

Me thinks if Carlo had top four players under his regime then they too would soon not be considered top four. Just look at how all our technical footballers Holgate, Gomes, Bernard, Siggy and Ricky have struggled under his care. Give Richarlison, Calvert Lewin, Pickford and Digne to those top four squads and they would all play a lot of football even if they too wouldn't be first choices.

Mendy is behind Zinchenko at City too, Jesus has started the last 2 Brazil games with Richarlison and Greenwood? You cannot seriously be throwing an 18 year old with immense talent as behind Calvert Lewin for England and he isn't guaranteed his euro spot, (though he should for aerial ability alone).

Simple equation. You have just finished in the top 4, who are you buying from Everton?

After signing nobody i'd go further and ask have Liecester Spurs West Ham Arsenal Leeds got players the top 4 clubs want?

I reckon they all have at least one.

"Where do you start? Everton is a club never slow or shy of telling the world how right they get it off the field but supporters have every right to ask when they might actually deliver something on it"

I think we all agree here!

"A dose of reality.

The BBC employes 25 ex-professional footballers as pundits (not including G Lineaker).

Today the BBC is examining how they all fared in their top four prediction game for last season?

Depressingly, 23 called the top four teams that actually ended in the top 4 (although not necessarily in the correct sequence).

The other two had three of the four correct, but had called Arsenal as the fourth team, one at the expense of Man Utd and the other at the expense of Chelsea.

So, forget this talk of the "Big Six".

The reality is the "Rich 4".

It is going to take time, money and a lot of luck before anyone really breaks into that cartel on a consistent basis".

Puts a lot of our opinions on here into perspective.

An ex Everton player might have picked us and looked a right Moby.

Given that Carlo's contract runs another 1,132 days, I think our Sisyphus is going to need all the encouragement and support we can give him.

Also, you must be a 'Rolling Stones Fan'! :-)

We can talk all we want, and try to believe what we write, so I'm finishing with something Ancelotti said, when he was talking about signing new players.

They have got to “sacrifice” he said. Sacrifice is just a simple word, but to sacrifice is anything but simple, especially in a game of excuses.

Wouldn't be surprised if we looked at Adama Traore. If not him, someone very similar.

For his or any system to work, it's obviously all about the players, but it looks like he wants the wider players to drift into inside-forward positions... That might just be because the players we have used in these positions will always have a natural tendency to drift inside because of a distinct lack of pace.

It's all well and good wanting a clear-out – which is true – and bringing in God knows how many we need to bring in. Thing is... where's the money coming from?

Will the money we get for Holgate from Man City pay for all these signings?

Three things will happen with Holgate: Nobody will come in for him; Pep won't be considering him; and he'll be flitting between full-back and centre-back for us all next season – and probably the season after.

I won't honestly mind... if he improves month on month – but improve he'll have to.

One was Leon Osmond – he called the correct top 4 - "but necessarily not in the right order", as Eric Morcambe once famously said.

Is that what Carlo is doing at Everton? Because if he is, it doesn't appear to be working, especially at home!

Although I am no fan of Bielsa or Leeds, his teams are in your face for 90 minutes, win or lose.

Although I'm not sure of the training regime at Finch Farm, I'd like to see the Duncan Ferguson attitude when temporary manager, instilled in the players, and without undermining Carlo, give the team talks before, during and after a match. He can then beast those that under-perform between marches, and ship out the ordinary players who are not up for the fight.

Duncan's attitude together with his desire to learn from Carlo for one or maybe two years more, makes him an ideal candidate for the job as and when Carlo moves on.

I want to see Carlo stay at least until BMD is up and running and maybe the first full season (contradiction from previous paragraph). Then the ready made successor is already in place.

Maybe I'm dreaming but – after 57 years of being a Blue, at the age of 70, having given up my season ticket due to poor health – I'd like to see us competing for the top prizes like we did in the '60s and '80s before I go to meet my maker.

End of Epistle.

Which link would you like. ?
The city one ?
The reaction by Everton giving him a five year deal to tie up his services ?
The one from the guy who reports all city matters for the Manchester evening News, or maybe you can do your own research and find out something about you club.

Google Holgate to City. And find reports from all over the world

When you've done that. Google Holgate five year deal and you will see EFC's reaction. That'll tell you how serious The reports were being taken.
Either that or you can continue to argue in ignorance like you always do, against something you clearly know nothing about.

Whether you like it or not John G. Pep wanted him. Carlo blocked his move.

Maybe the two most decorated men in football should have come on TW and sort your advice on Holgate.

By the way. Mason was handed a massive pay rise.

I agree we should be looking for a wide runner who can deliver into the box.

The Italians also seem to be having one of their most barren spells on the world stage, but I doubt it's because of their very productive strangulation tactics, and more likely that they just haven't produced as many talented players.

For most systems to work, a team usually have to be very good at retaining the football. The only way the current Everton team can consistently string a few passes together is by playing sideways or backwards, unfortunately.

I fully agree with your final paragraph. Man City have provided excellent examples of this in most games they have played this season – and have been a joy to watch.

In addition to ball retention, the movement and control of their players is such that they often don't bother using a ‘traditional' centre-forward. But why would you when your midfield contributes so many goals?

㿊 million and Stones, one says 😂 – and grown men believe that shite.

Find one quote from either club. It's actually ridiculous to fall for that schoolboy nonsense.

Laying foundations hopefully, and then trying to move onto the second stage, which has proven a lot more difficult, (it always is) and even against the also-rans, in games we have just been expected to turn up and win, at Goodison.

How true, we have relied on fortress Goodison for too long.

I'm hopeful that 2 maybe 3 signings will see an improvement on our home form next season, coupled with a continuation of our away form this season. Man City apart, we havn't been thrashed.

👍👍👍

This is what happens to people who over-hype players. They are looking for evidence you normally wouldn't need to prove a player is a top talent.

I reckon we need at least six players to cover the whole squad, even without European football mate!

Possession of the football is what should be drilled into players from a young age. If you keep the ball, the opposition don't have it. That's quite simple.

But, and acknowledging I risk being told off for my repetitiveness, you don't do the imposter "possession for possession sake" thing, which many teams do today. You keep the ball until the game opens up. Then you go forward with intent and purpose, City being the best example of this.

Width is important, even if you don't use the winger. The wide players stretch the pitch to open up space elsewhere or they get the opportunity to get dangerous balls into the strikers. It gives the defending team a dilemma. Stick or twist? Those defenders amongst us will know that scenario. But not to have width makes it easy for the defending team. They can just stay compact and soak it up.

The opposite of playing possession football is to go forward for the sake of it when nothing is on and just give the ball back to the opposition because you play the ball blindly.

To use extremes, Pep's City versus the 1990s English brand of percentage football that you still see in the lower leagues. "Pass, pass, diagonal" I think of it as. The ball goes forward without even looking up.

Take the Ball, Pass the Ball is a great documentary if you haven't watched it.

It is the same players and squad who got Silva sacked. Check Mark's @ 370 post. Inconvenient I know as it contradicts the propaganda, but facts are facts (unless they contradict the anti-Carlo narrative, in which case they are 'meaningless stats'.)

The Spurs shortlist is apparently Ralf Rangnick, Graham Potter and Bobby Brown Shoes – be careful what you wish for!

If you or anyone on ToffeeWeb is expecting Kevin De Bruyne, Phil Foden or the like to rock up in an Everton strip in the next few years then you guys are in for a sharp shock.

To answer your question about quality, the England squad announced today saw three Everton players. Only Utd and City (the two best teams in the country this season) had more. Spurs,Arsenal, West Ham and Leeds could all manage one and the brilliant Leicester couldn't get any. Do you think we should finish behind all these teams? Carlo also brought in two players of his own choice whom he identified as being world class.

As for your jibe about anti-Carlo propaganda I have to laugh about your hypocrisy regarding skewed stats as a I seen you comparing Carlo's reign to others. Many of the stats of previous managers reigns take into account when things became untenable so only at the end of the reign should they have any real merit. Contrasting a guy who has just come out of his honeymoon year is ridiculous.

Certainly from purely a points total Carlo's first thirty eight games (full season) was impressive if not the quality on display but the subsequent eighteen show the same worrying signs at Bayern and Napoli of clear regression. Earlier this season we were told that Carlo has an impressive 66% win rate, now it's in free fall. What will it be like after another six months? Speaking of Bobby Brown Shoes I note you didn't do a direct comparison between him and Carlo after their first season and a half in all competitions which would be a less skewed slant.
Hmm I wonder why that would be?

As for being careful what we wish for Bobby Bullshit got us to 72 points, the last sixteen in Europe and two cup semifinals in three years. Eighteen months in we have a twelfth and tenth place finishes in the bank, with the worst football in living memory, a new emergency room to cater for our latest crocked geriatrics and practically every players resale value has hit an all time low due to Carlo's canny knack of making all players look like tripe.

I do agree with you regarding more signings as squad players.

However, I should have explained myself better, in that slotting 2/3 into the starting 11. 👍

Stop blinding them with facts. They can't cope with you leading them a merry dance.

You are right, of course. I just Googled it and my laptop lit up like a Christmas tree. Man City's interest was being reported all around the world on just about every news outlet.

You are also dead right about Carlo moving swiftly to put out City's fire. Within a day or so, he had offered Mason a 5-year extension and tripled his wages. Maybe Paul A, John Keating and Thomas Richards are right; maybe Carlo offered him a 㾽M contract based on something he read in the current bun?

Maybe our very own Lyndon got sucked into this "Lie" too?

Everton's best journalist put up a piece on these very pages citing interest from City and others as the reason for the new contract. Maybe the seventy people who voice their approval on the thread bought into the lie too?

"I did not know him before I came here. He has the quality to be a top defender. Fast strong physically and good with his head. He is a complete defender" – Carlo Ancelotti, talking on the OS after fending off Pep by securing his man for another 5 years.

That is the problem with taking such a vehement stance on Ancelotti so early. It leads to arguing away facts that do not fit with predetermined opinions. It also leads to obsessing on whether Man City were interested in Mason Holgate in early 2020 – they may have been, they definitely wouldn't be now. He has frankly been absolute gash this season.

I would rate Carlo as a 6/10 this season, simply because it will take 2 more summer transfer windows to see if he can produce a winning squad. Our away record would have put us 2nd in the Premier League and our home record would have placed us in 15th. So, he has a lot of areas to improve upon but his record of winning suggests he should be given a chance.

And he will definitely be here for those transfer window, so buckle in!

I have given Ancelotti due credit for his first calendar year points accrual. If he has the same 6 months as his previous, he will be nowhere on that list. If Martinez left after his first season would he be the best manager in our history?

This post of yours is like one of yours earlier in the season saying we had a great chance of Top 4 because we were in pole position. Moral of the story; let the movie play out before making sweeping statements that only come back to bite – especially when it's about 10% top to bottom.

It's absolute tosh. The editors wrote about it... Wow, an editor from an Everton fan site writing about an Everton story. Surely it's true.

What these deluded are suggesting is that Holgate didn't want the move. Pretending Ancelotti couldn't have replaced him with the fee and, unlike Lukaku, he bowed down with no cry for a massive move, and signed the contract Ancelotti wanted him to sign.

Alice in Wonderland stuff. I remember we had "interest" in a couple of players one summer according to The Echo's report of 'according to The Mirror'.

So much substance our local paper was regurgitating shite the morning papers wrote. Like they do every summer.

You are making a complete fools of yourselves. Why don't you just admit you knew absolutely nothing about reports which went wold wide. An Everton story you didn't know about.

The editors on this site confine "papertalk shite", as you put it to the Rumour Mill section. Lyndon was not talking about a "story", he was reporting the facts when he told TW posters about contract extension Seventy posters voiced their approval (including one Mike Gaynes btw).

I gave only a short version of what Carlo said when he told the official website (not a newspaper reporter in sight) about securing Holgate with a 5-year deal and a very hefty pay rise. He gave a very long interview waxing very, very lyrically about him.

No links from me. That's because you could both easily do a little research yourselves but, despite having the facts at your fingertips, you are choosing to stay ignorant of them.

Leave you to it...

Welcome back by the way, good to see you posting again.

I remember the Hogate rumours well and thought they were absolute bullshit at the time.

Give as much make believe nearly truths as you want but all you have is paper talk and its complete patheticness when experienced mature fellas take it as gospel.

Not one bid, one quote, one denial. Nothing but you believing Journos that couldn't pull one line from a human around football.

The research line is a whopper like this story.

Type in Holgate to Mam City like you said and the first few are related to how shite he was last week then nothing but your worldwide papertalk and i remember The Mirror writing about it in the summer anyway and thought nothing will come of this.

More fool the fools.

Lyndon does not report on the Rumour Mill. And EFC.com is not one of those newspapers you read feeding you full of shit.

Perhaps if you stopped reading the shite you may pick up on the facts.

The reason you two are arguing so long and hard about this, is because the guy who many will consider the worlds leading authority on defenders had called Holgate "the complete defender"...Thats kinda out of wack with your impressively knowledgeable " He's shite" mantra.

It's not a crime to disagree with this manager. Even if you do think he can do no wrong You and Thomas need to come to terms with that.

So Lyndon had a quote from all the sources we have asked from did he? Or did he just report what the papers reported?

I am sure he doesn't work for Everton.com so what were their words Darren.

Find us the bit where Carlo said no city for Mason, theres a 5 year deal for you at Everton. Funnier each time I say that

Also when you pull your head back out, look how many times I have agreed with headaches like Ian (your other obvious account) on bad subs and Carlo isn't blameless hes made mistakes. Words I have posted on this site.

Yes I do believe there is far more to it and he needs time but I don't throw my whole soul on paper talk and fantasise we could keep any player from Man Citys reach.

That is just outrageously stupid.

I bet he's got no proof who you are either. He's probably emailing Lyndon like a sycophantic desperado looking for this so-called proof.

A 5-year deal for Holgate is now proof Man City wanted him.

It's a new age mate.

Echo gossip is same as Manchester Evening News gossip. The nonsense of "he was offered and signed a 5-year deal to keep him at the club" is very naive. If City were in for him, he would be a City player now. They weren't and he isn't.

Here's more gossip for you.

According to Football Insider, Everton will listen to offers for Mason Holgate in the summer, as they aim to raise cash for A-list signings, including a top centre-back.

FI, who add that Holgate has not totally convinced Carlo Ancelotti since the Italian arrived at the club, also mention the Toffees' links to the aforementioned Koulibaly in their report.

"Winning isn't everything, wanting to win everything is".

I wouldn't be surprised if he completely blanked the teary one either!

It was reported by every single sports station and newspaper that City were about to swoop. This was not idle gossip peddled by a single newspaper. The report was confirmed by the guy designated by the Manchester Evening News to report on all things Man City.

Carlo was not gossiping in the baggy. He was gushing about securing his "complete defender" on the OS... in front of cameras.

Breaking news: Everton did not offer a 㾽M contract to Mason Holgate because of the media frenzy surrounding Man City's intentions. They offered him it because the board were worried about a bit of gossip in the Mirror

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

It was not confirmed by anyone. The guy from the MEN, who is about 19 years old, and has 191 followers on Instagram said "Holgate has been linked with" and later "Holgate has emerged as a reported transfer target".

Key words being "linked" and "reported." The latter meaning this lad is basing his article on something else he read that was "reported" by someone other than him, ie, not the MEN City Expert.

He has no mention of quotes even from "club insiders" or people "close to the dressing room." It was a rumor, without anyone substantiating it. Likely promulgated by Holgate's agent to push Everton into offering him a new deal.

This past week, the Liverpool Echo had a piece by a similarly young lad, Theo Squires, on their dedicated Everton page with a headline "Everton linked with Kvaratskhelia" – notice that word "linked"... same as in the MEN.

Later in the article, it says: "Everton 'favourites to sign' Kvaratskhelia" and yet, it has since emerged per Marcel Brands himself that this rumor began when the player's agent sent Everton a video of the player and sought to generate interest.

Everton didn't reciprocate, and most papers including The Echo have since explained that it was a mere rumour, although today when I Googled his name my computer lit up like a Christmas tree with articles and blogs from all over the world carrying this story that Everton want to sign this guy.

Let's just put a few direct quotes up here...

When asked directly about Man City's intentions, Carlo replied;

"I can say Mason Holgate is an important part of the future of Everton. There is no possibility he can go to another club. Zero Possibility"

Holgate was then offered a 5-year deal and his wages were tripled.

On his signing, Carlo was lavish in his praise, telling the Official site: "He is the complete defender."

Carlo then went on to tell the OS:

"It is good for Everton when a young player believes this is a good club and wants to be here. Mason can be one of the top defenders in my opinion."

Don't shoot the messenger. If it's all a fabrication and Carlo was lying through his teeth, take it up with him.

Because Darren you said something of that ilk when people were saying the players said Carlo was the "pull" to come to Everton.

So the players lie and Carlo always tells the truth?

A bit naive of you that like.

Again, where did Carlo say "We received and or rejected a bid from Man City?"

He was asked by a journo, probably barely of legal age like the MEN lad, who asked him about the rumors and that was his response. He didn't say it was true. End of. Goodnight nurse.

Right, the "Gospel of Carlo," a mean allegedly in cognitive decline is absolute. But his acolytes such as James are just sycophants when they talk.

"I can say Mason Holgate is an important part of the future of Everton. There is no possibility he can go to another club"

Losing his marbles, Carlo. What he should have said:

"Mason is a defender who loses his concentration on many occasions. He is not aware of forwards making runs off him, has no spatial awareness. He often gets caught in possession in dangerous areas. His back passes invite trouble"

That statement would have seen Mason's price- tag rocket

“I'm a big Holgate fan. I think he has shown he has a footballing ability the other two centre-halves don't possess”

“The first time I saw Mason Holgate playing for our kids against Liverpool's kids, I thought, “Hello, this lad can play!” He was clearly a proper footballer. No thought at all about what he would do if he got it under control. He was thinking what he would do with it when he'd got it under control.

I was worried sick we would lose him to West Bromwich Albion. When he played left-back, you knew he could do it. When West Brom played him right-back, you knew he could do it. When Ferguson pushed him into midfield, you just knew he could do it.

The problem we have is Holgate is also our best centre-back too. Moving him forward would weaken our defence. “

I wonder which of our posters that may have been 😂😂😂

I don't care What Carlo said. I simply put up direct quotes as repeatedly requested

If you guys think he was lying through his teeth. Thats your business

Like I said. Dont shoot the messenger

I make no secret of my admiration for Holgate You are hardly unearthing some dark secret. I may not be as big a fan as Carlo, but I always liked him.

That said. I think giving him a 17m contract was the worst thing we could have done. IMO; He thinks he has made it and has been crap this season. getting played out of position every other week has also ruined his season

I do find it amusing watching people get bent all out of shape when you point out that the guy who can do no wrong has been gushing in his admiration for the guy who can do no right

Now that's comedy gold

You see I don't think there are many who can do no wrong but using Holgates new contract as a stick to beat the manager when you have publicly praised him on more occasions than I quoted shows a certain er.... agenda

In fact here's what you said just over a year ago when it was announced that Holgate had signed a new contract

“Silva acted like a complete moron. How anyone could have prepared the lighthouse stopper (insert name) to a footballing talent like this is totally at odds with everything I believe in.

Holgate still has a way to go. He goes for the Hollywood pass too often, but he'll learn to pick his moment.

His risky style of play will get him into trouble from time to time too, but every time I see him a turn out of trouble or side-step a high press with that air of "I'm a proper footballer", I just want to sing "This is how we do it. This is how we do it baby!"

Five more Mason Holgates please, Mr Brands!”

So at that point you agreed with Carlos approach?

That's the trouble with the internet, it keeps receipts

I did not put the quotes up by Carlo as a stick to beat him with - I have too many others.
I put them up there because others were denying point blank that he made them.

Not sure why you think I disagree with them.. I think I'm the only one on here who does.

You were acting out of public service. A beacon of truth. Not of course advancing your agenda against the manager.

You know when you said this today

“That said. I think giving him a 17m contract was the worst thing we could have done. IMO;”

How does that square with the last post

Well it's a post truth age they say 😂

This year the three demoted teams were demoted weeks before the end of season, the champions were similarly identified as were United in terms of the Champions League, and the only "interest" was who between Liverpool, Chelsea or Leicester would also qualify and which of three clubs (one being us) might qualify for a paltry European contest vying for crumbs off a competition that vies for scraps off another competition that ensures, with its vast riches, enormous wealth that, surprise, surprise, ensures the enduring boredom of professional football right across Europe and the world.

You couldn't make it up.

As an aside (and I know I'm being naughty in saying so), I'm so happy that our Dazza has come back as a regular poster. He's the genuine joker in a cast of lunatics.

He's the one and only Zebedee (the preposterous genius) on our Magic Roundabout of a forum.

Boing!!!!

Rumours usually stay as rumours until a player is sold but I could certainly believe other Premier League clubs, including City, would consider Holgate – just like any decent young domestic player.

I think he's had a decent season. He's come back from injury, played both centrally, right-back, right-wing back and possibly as a defensive midfielder in a couple of games.

He's made mistakes, not as bad as others but considering he's still a younger defender I think he's been an important player for us this season.

If I could sell Holgate or Mikey Keane for the same money I'd keep Holgate. He's got more to offer us than Keane IMO.

The Europa League Final was a disappointing spectacle but what a great penalty shoot-out. As much as some may ridicule Man Utd for losing, what does that say about us? We are a fair way off being that good.

Carlo (and all of Everton) must do better next season. I still believe, NSNO!

It's all about opinions and we can only comment on Holgate with what we see on the field.

To me he showed early potential but this season he's been, inconsistent, erratic and appears arrogant in his play which his ability doesn't warrant.

At a time when England haven't really got a settled centre half set up it's telling that he's never been nowhere need the squad or mentioned in passing.

I thought you were in the Keep Carlo camp?