Saturday 2 October 2021
Man Utd v Everton – 12:30 BST on BT Sport 1
Final Score – 16:00 BST on BBC One
Brighton & Hove Albion v Arsenal – 17:30 BST on Sky Sports
Match of the Day – 22:30 BST on BBC One
Sunday 3 October 2021
Match of the Day (Repeat) – 07:10 BST on BBC One
Crystal Palace v Leicester City – 14:00 BST on Sky Sports
Liverpool v Man City – 16:30 BST on Sky Sports
Match of the Day 2 – 22:30 BST on BBC One
Reader Comments (161)
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1 Posted 02/10/2021 at 15:32:18
2 Posted 03/10/2021 at 08:42:55
I can relax and watch the football today and looking forward to it.
Despite their heroics against Tottenham last week, more pressure on Arteta? Him or Steve Bruce for the inevitable October panic chop?
3 Posted 03/10/2021 at 09:06:23
4 Posted 03/10/2021 at 09:27:47
5 Posted 03/10/2021 at 09:42:09
6 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:40:19
7 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:49:25
8 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:54:15
9 Posted 03/10/2021 at 10:56:00
They're 14th with 7 points.
They just love to sack a manager at Watford don't they
10 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:04:25
11 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:15:27
And I just read Ole Gunnar Shitthebed. Brilliant, Neil, that was worth getting up early to read that.
12 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:32:37
CP 0-1 LC
13 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:36:33
14 Posted 03/10/2021 at 14:38:37
15 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:06:41
16 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:21:25
17 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:32:15
18 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:32:42
19 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:33:59
20 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:40:29
I saw Brenda talking about Lookman the other day saying hes skillful, hasnt had a good run of games at a club, but if they can improve his consistency he has the skill to be perfect for Leicester. Left me thinking about Demarai Gray the fellow Rodgers got rid of. Hows he doing these days?
21 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:45:03
Vardy is hurt. No stretcher, it looks like he's walking. Tough fucker.
22 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:56:27
23 Posted 03/10/2021 at 15:57:15
24 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:04:19
25 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:28:20
26 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:30:30
27 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:42:05
Really hate that.
Mind you a lot of foreign supporters do that.
28 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:42:36
29 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:47:50
30 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:50:49
31 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:51:16
Could be wrong mind.
32 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:53:02
33 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:53:19
34 Posted 03/10/2021 at 16:55:57
35 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:08:20
The gobshites have forgotten to boo and whistle now because they're crapping themselves.
36 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:10:10
37 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:14:30
38 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:17:52
The shite getting a football lesson at the moment.
39 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:19:24
40 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:24:29
For long periods in that half, Liverpool could hardly get out of their own penalty area, never mind their own half.
41 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:31:01
42 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:39:50
43 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:48:30
44 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:58:08
45 Posted 03/10/2021 at 17:58:48
Suckit 1-1 Citeh
46 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:01:03
47 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:03:28
48 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:04:07
49 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:06:34
50 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:07:44
51 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:09:57
52 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:10:45
Suckit 2-2 Citeh
53 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:10:47
54 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:24:12
55 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:27:56
56 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:28:26
57 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:33:00
58 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:42:02
59 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:50:21
Salah was terrible – instead of shooting, he should have passed to Yerry Mina.
60 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:50:24
61 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:57:19
62 Posted 03/10/2021 at 18:58:18
63 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:13:35
If Danny O'Neill is reading, I've watched a few Bundesliga games this season and have seen many empty seats, is there a limit on attendances relating to Covid or are the fans staying away from the televised games?
64 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:47:25
65 Posted 03/10/2021 at 19:49:37
Let's hope for a good international break, and our injured list, starts reducing.
66 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:05:20
"In 14 of Germany's 16 states, a capacity cap of 50% has been put in place, with the maximum number of spectators set at 25,000. In the state of Bavaria (where Bayern Munich play), as well as in the city-state of Hamburg, the authorities have taken a stricter approach".
67 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:12:54
Enjoyed the Liverpool v City match too. Salah and Foden the best players on the pitch. How did Milner not get a 2nd yellow? Klopp knew it and hooked him sharpish.
Schalke win 3-0. A good footballing weekend.
68 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:52:57
69 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:55:52
Table = This year's 7 games + results from the 31 fixtures still to be played.
City won last year, Spurs lost last year; WHU won last year so some big moves at the top.
Points Diff Points Goal Diff
1 Man City -4 82 51
2 Liverpool +7 76 38
3 Chelsea +5 72 32
4 Man Utd -5 69 26
5 Tottenham +4 66 18
6 West Ham 0 65 17
7 Everton +5 64 5
8 Leicester -5 61 12
9 Arsenal -4 57 5
10 Leeds -4 55 0
11 Aston Villa -4 51 4
12 Brighton +10 51 0
13 Wolves 0 45 -17
14 Southampton +2 45 -19
15 Crystal Palace 0 44 -24
16 Newcastle -5 40 -21
17 Burnley -6 33 -24
18 Brentford +9 32 -28
19 Watford +4 30 -35
20 Norwich -8 20 -40
70 Posted 03/10/2021 at 21:56:25
71 Posted 03/10/2021 at 23:00:03
72 Posted 04/10/2021 at 07:25:28
that is usually the only time.
73 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:36:32
I like to believe that such a mechanism would reduce the number of cynical fouls in the modern game.
(yes I am in my 70s and started following Everton on the road 69-70 season, that spoiled me but great days)
74 Posted 04/10/2021 at 09:37:47
75 Posted 04/10/2021 at 10:21:54
It is clear that we are witnessing the return of the biased ref.
76 Posted 04/10/2021 at 12:00:05
77 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:11:42
Salah bloomed when he joined Liverpool, possibly because he fitted into Klopp's system. Just as Coutinho improved when Klopp arrived, but then Coutinho regressed when he went to Barca. When Lukaku left us, he wasn't as good for Man Utd, and so on.
Obviously players have innate talent but, for most of them, how much that talent shows itself depends on the setup.
78 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:32:01
What price a Sky Sports memorial special?
79 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:47:15
I think, maybe, perhaps, that incident will be forgotten in the rush to declare an Egyptian as the greatest living footballer on the planet and they will show his latest goal on a loop for the next decade – a goal I have yet to see and one I will attempt to avoid seeing.
It won't be easy but I'm determined to avoid all things from over the park as often as I can. If it wasn't for TW I wouldn't know who played for them or how wonderful they are supposed to be.
80 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:49:39
81 Posted 04/10/2021 at 14:58:33
82 Posted 04/10/2021 at 15:04:56
Also the Pundits did not raise the issue of Milner's second Yellow with Klopp or Pep in the after match interviews.
I'm also getting sick of the coverage of "You'll Never Walk Alone" before every game which they don't do for any other club.
The bias is sickening.
83 Posted 04/10/2021 at 15:11:19
84 Posted 04/10/2021 at 15:13:17
85 Posted 04/10/2021 at 15:48:20
Rick O'Shea is also a Wales Rugby commentator with a great sense of humour and good reputation. My wife cracks up every time she hears his name mentioned on TV!
86 Posted 04/10/2021 at 16:31:58
Great run, great finish. But best? I saw a better finish by Townsend against Burnley. And Gray's determination and run to set up the passage of play for our equaliser led to an equally impressive goal. Okay, team goal, not individual, but just as good.
87 Posted 04/10/2021 at 16:51:23
88 Posted 04/10/2021 at 16:52:31
I don't know if you remember one of our last Europa League jaunts, when we beat Wolfsburg home and away. Wolfsburg had a midfielder on loan, who to the best of my memory played in both matches. I don't remember noticing him at all in either match. His name: Kevin de Bruyne.
89 Posted 04/10/2021 at 16:57:39
90 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:19:47
91 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:27:54
I mean, it was so hyped up that I was quite surprised when it turned out to be just a nice little jinking run and a decent finish. Look, I know I'm biased, but it wasn't even the best goal of the season so far, let alone in the history of the Premier League.
92 Posted 04/10/2021 at 17:49:16
93 Posted 04/10/2021 at 18:01:38
a) justify a salary increase for "Salad"
b) Increase "Salad's" transfer fee if he leaves.
The media appear to be aiding and abetting that club at every turn, notice how Davies who has been rumoured to be on the move, perhaps even in January is dismissed as a 'bottler' for passing the ball to Mina by Ian Wright and company - which obviously doesn't help to maximise his transfer value, to the detriment of Everton FC
Football is a huge business and the media follow the money and it often helps to ensure the money stays focussed on the usual suspects but our red cousins benefit the most because out of the major six they are probably in need of the most help.
94 Posted 04/10/2021 at 18:12:20
95 Posted 04/10/2021 at 19:23:43
If each and every player involved in the goal gets one touch wrong at any time in the play, the goal doesn't happen. The starting and finishing positions of the three players most involved is a marvel to behold. Allan near the corner of the 6-yard box. Gray, Doucouré and Townsend in a line parallel to the penalty spot across the width of the penalty area.
Allan's one-touch pass – not a hacked clearance – from Fernandes's corner to the already moving Gray gives the latter a head start over Fred. Gray's first touch sets him clear goal side away from Fred, but heading towards the touchline.
He sets himself for Fred's challenge, who bounces off him. With Wan-Bissaka closing in on him, Gray's close control to the touchline is perfection personified. By this time, Doucouré has made a lung-bursting run to offer Gray the pass inside. One touch to get it under control with forward movement, two swift touches to take two covering United men out of the game.
On the other flank, Townsend has jogged forward to the half-way line and is 30 yards behind the play but, when Doucouré receives the ball, he immediately sees the opening and puts on the after-burners to offer Doucouré the pass which he delivers at the perfect pace and angle.
Townsend gets the ball under control with a sublime touch with the outside of his left boot, then THUMP! Keeper doesn't move.
Townsend has seen the picture of the play already, knowing where De Gea and the goal is, because at no time when the ball comes to him does he look up in that direction. His eyes remain focussed on the ball.
On a personal note, I'm not one for the Live Forum. I don't comment in-play on Michael's live match updates, only before kick-off, at half-time and after the final whistle.
Only twice have I been moved to post a comment when the game was still in play. The first, Lukaku's wonder goal in the FA Cup win v Chelsea, Moshiri's first match at the club.
The second was on Saturday following this goal.
It won't happen, but if there is any genuine discernment and honesty, come the end of October, Andros Townsend should receive his second consecutive 'Goal of the Month' award.
96 Posted 04/10/2021 at 19:51:01
Honestly, what a let-down. Wasn't even the best goal of the weekend.
97 Posted 04/10/2021 at 20:49:57
98 Posted 04/10/2021 at 21:14:01
99 Posted 04/10/2021 at 21:17:11
100 Posted 04/10/2021 at 21:54:41
101 Posted 04/10/2021 at 22:25:03
From Fernandes taking the corner to the ball nestling in the United goal, 16 seconds.
And it's not as if it is a novelty in Everton's play this season. Our counter-attacking has been rapier-like on numerous occassions.
Teams will note that and be leery of going all gung-ho against us.
102 Posted 04/10/2021 at 22:46:19
There's also a crucial moment just before we break from that corner from which, as you highlight, Allan makes a clever clearance. I wouldn't say pinpointed, but he didn't smash it and tried to play it into space where he thought an Everton player could pick up possession. The rest was just sublime; counter-attacking at its utmost best.
The bit before that is Allan charging back to block a potentially dangerous cross to give away said corner to give us a chance to defend it and break. And then straight up to shout and bark instructions at the Everton players he felt should have done better.
I can and will watch that goal time and time again.
103 Posted 04/10/2021 at 23:42:01
104 Posted 05/10/2021 at 00:19:45
Deluded or what?
105 Posted 05/10/2021 at 00:33:43
106 Posted 05/10/2021 at 01:55:44
Chris Sutton is a very well-known ex-footballer who won the Premier League title with Blackburn, was briefly Chelsea's most expensive player, and now is one of the most popular (and outspoken) voices in radio punditry. You may disagree with what he says but his pedigree is not in doubt.
As for what he actually said about Salah – which is that, at the present moment, he is better than Messi and Ronaldo – well, it's a fair opinion to have; Messi and Ronaldo are both inevitably slightly past their peak, while Salah is still at his peak.
107 Posted 05/10/2021 at 02:47:33
108 Posted 05/10/2021 at 07:36:25
I think it is really sad that Man Utd and Newcastle Utd and others stick away fans in some distant corner of the ground, well away from the pitch.
I used to love the atmosphere at Goodison when Man Utd or some other well-supported team filled the Park End.
Chelsea still have fans behind the goal and it definitely doesn't make them any less likely to win; indeed, the noise from the away fans invariably wake the home support from their slumber.
The noise from our distanced away fans came over very loud all game.
109 Posted 05/10/2021 at 08:20:17
Maybe Sunderland just copied off their neighbours but, after 6,500 Evertonians gave our team the greatest night of support I've genuinely ever witnessed, it wasn't long after that they also began to put the away fans in the sky.
Having away fans behind the goal definitely adds to the atmosphere, and anyone who is feeling down should just Google the Everton fans at Anfield when Sigurdsson scored there in the cup.
If the lockdown showed us anything, it's that football is boring when there is zero atmosphere inside the stadium, and every pundit who said Everton would be better off without fans at Goodison is nothing but a fraud.
110 Posted 05/10/2021 at 09:16:11
I read recently that Salad will be asking for £500k per week when his next contract is up for renewal in a couple of years time. Now I doubt very much that the RS will pay him this, so could he be on his way out?
I also saw a link last week that Real Madrid have an annual wage bill at over a staggering £600M.
The following link shows the breakdown for each squad member. I obviously don't know if it's accurate or not, but there are rumours that Madrid could be his next destination. This link also states that Madrid's annual wage bill is just over £219M, nowhere near £600M.
Question being though, will Madrid pay a 30-year-old £500k PW?
111 Posted 05/10/2021 at 09:23:56
I have no idea why PSG turned the offer down given the circumstances but, if they thought Mbappe would change his mind, which he hasn't, that could be one of the most expensive decisions in football.
112 Posted 05/10/2021 at 09:28:32
However, my point really is about exaggeration. LFC and the media commentary surrounding them tend to be replete with it. It's a bit like ‘Peter cried wolf', in that truth and fantasy blur into each other. When LFC do something very good, it becomes the best thing since sliced bread, and when something unfortunate happens to them it's the worst thing that ever happened and the whole world (or Jordan Pickford) is to blame.
Klopp talks so much drivel that when he does talk sense you've stopped listening by then. Similar with pundits in the media. There's so much shite spoken that it's difficult to take them seriously generally.
Re Salad, the goal was brilliant, and he's top class, but he's no Messi or Ronaldo, and to claim otherwise is typical of what's said about a player in top form who happens to play for LFC. The media do nothing to discourage the exaggeration, and everything to encourage it. It's all rather childish and tedious.
113 Posted 05/10/2021 at 09:35:00
I seem to remember them having Rodgers and Rush et al – the usual mob – out laying wreaths somewhere (everywhere). No other team in England gets near them. They have fingers (whole hands more like) in every pie, in every corner of the print, broadcast and social media.
They are so vain, and so bothered about their image they've had their last two managers get new teeth and Klopp has even had his eyes done. Add that to the unbelievable amount of luck the bastards get and they're truly despicable.
114 Posted 05/10/2021 at 10:04:43
115 Posted 05/10/2021 at 11:38:06
It's a ploy to generate reaction. Clicks. Likes. Thumbs up. Whatever.
To claim now or at any time that Salah is better than Messi or CR7 is ill-considered nonsense of the highest order.
116 Posted 05/10/2021 at 12:00:34
Most TV pundits also are their fans, who constantly tell us what a great club they are, while not dwelling on the misdemeanours their fans commit.
Strange you wouldn't think this wonderful club with brilliant supporters had gone 32 years without winning the domestic league title. I couldn't imagine that happening to any of the truly great clubs, but that's overlooked because UEFA were so desperate to make money that they changed their rules to allow 4 clubs from most of the top leagues to enter what was known as the European Cup.
And they also had the audacity to change the name to the Champions League which it patently wasn't. So, if the now Champions League still only allowed Champions to enter, then the club who hadn't won the domestic league for 32 years may not have had the status they now have.
But, having said all that, our record in qualifying for this tournament, apart from the banned years, is a disgrace.
117 Posted 05/10/2021 at 12:03:26
Absolutely true about Chris Sutton, another Robbie Savage. Much better to totally ignore them. They love being in the public eye and they are not alone, dozens of them in the media with not an ounce of talent between them.
118 Posted 05/10/2021 at 12:09:28
119 Posted 05/10/2021 at 12:14:08
I couldn't understand two things about that Mbappe offer, Brian: Real Madrid offering that amount of money, and PSG saying No.
It also made me wonder about FFP, because it wasn't that long ago that PSG looked to be getting weighed down by it, and surely it can't be long before the same thing happens to Real Madrid when you read about their current debt?
120 Posted 05/10/2021 at 12:55:56
My curiosity got the better of me and I searched out the lyrics. The ditty not only works in an insulting Asian stereotype, but throws in one against Scousers too for good measure.
'Park, Park, wherever you may be
You might eat dogs in your own country
But it could be worse, you could be Scouse,
Eating rats in a council house. '
Oh, what charming scallies they are.
121 Posted 05/10/2021 at 13:31:21
122 Posted 05/10/2021 at 13:46:11
Sometimes ToffeeWeb has a lot of posts criticising our players when our form drops, but Ive checked out Liverpool fan sites, and they are much worse. A player will never walk alone, so long as hes playing well.
At least with us, when a player is on good form hes good but not the Messiah, and when hes on bad form hes just a very naughty boy.
123 Posted 05/10/2021 at 14:46:09
Sorry but I strongly disagree. In pure footballing terms, right this moment, if I was managing a team for a game tonight and had the option of picking between Cristiano Ronaldo and Mo Salah then I would pick Salah. No doubt that Ronaldo in his pomp was a better player than Salah is in his, but that's not the question - it's about how they are measuring up right this moment.
124 Posted 05/10/2021 at 14:56:36
125 Posted 05/10/2021 at 14:59:39
Sure, Salah has become a scoring machine akin to Shearer, Rooney, Ronaldo etc, but as an all-round player, Messi is in a class of his own and has been since he was a 17-year-old.
True, Messi is in the twilight of his career, as is Ronaldo, and Salah did score an exceptional goal on Sunday, as many strikers do on occasions, but people like Sutton shouldn't get carried away with stupid comments.
Let's not forget, Salah was basically a flop at Chelsea and Roma before joining Liverpool.
126 Posted 05/10/2021 at 15:02:34
127 Posted 05/10/2021 at 15:02:58
The substantial point is one of a broader representation of quality, rather than of particular episodes of good form. That is the basis of how we assess the broader quality (‘genius, ‘world class, ‘journeyman, etc) of each player. On this basis, Messi, Ronaldo, Pele, Cruyff, Best, Puskas, Dean and the like are legends for all time. In comparison, Salad and his comparables are at a lower tier of quality, and its not really appropriate to be mentioning them in the same way as the all-time legends. Thats where the LFC exaggeration of a player has crept in yet again.
Similar exaggeration is unfortunately used for LFC as a club, where media adulation of them could give the uninformed the impression theyd won loads of stuff in the modern era (the Premier League and Champions League), when in fact they havent and the centre of British football has been and still is mainly in Manchester and to a lesser extent London.
The problem is partly to do with broadcast media and its popular culture images, which extend beyond football, for example its constant comparison of the British physicist Hawking with the likes of Einstein, when in fact Hawking is somewhat down the pecking order, both the pecking order of British physicists and the more global pecking order. Its no doubt a problem made worse by social media with its uninformed opinions. Where Messi equates to Einstein, Salad equates to Hawking.
128 Posted 05/10/2021 at 15:07:52
129 Posted 05/10/2021 at 15:25:22
The older-by-seven-years Ronaldo has 5 goals in 6 games since joining Man Utd late in the transfer window after 12 years away from the club.
Salah has 9 in 9, playing his 4th season with a team, team mates and system he is totally familiar with.
Barely a wafer between them then on the stats.
CR7 is a phenomenon, even in the autumn of his career. Messi is adjusting to a completely new footballing environment and culture outside Barcelona for the first time in his life.
Salah is a fine player. He scored a good goal (not a great 'goal of the ages') on Sunday. Personally, I thought Man City's defending was very shabby on that play.
But because he had a half-decent weekend elevates him to currently being 'the best player in the world'...?
If you want to give credence to Chris Sutton's hyperbole, feel free to do so.
I don't. I won't.
130 Posted 05/10/2021 at 16:03:01
131 Posted 05/10/2021 at 16:39:59
Sutton is not claiming (and neither am I) that Salah will be remembered as an empirically better player than Messi or Ronaldo. He is not putting up their all-time stats to compare, or referencing their team-mates, or how long they have been at their club, or been playing in a particular league. He is not digging down deep into a comparison of the 3 players over their careers. He is simply saying that right now Salah is the one who he thinks - in this moment - is "the best".
Of course it's subjective, Jay. And reducing it to being "ill-considered nonsense of the highest order" is your own subjective opinion. I find Sutton's subjective opinion to be interesting, while I find yours to be blinkered and without much merit at all.
Oh, and if stats are worth mentioning and there is "barely a wafer between them (CR7 and Salah)", then it must be relatively sensible to ask who is best, no?
132 Posted 05/10/2021 at 16:45:23
We all know that Salad is not in the same bracket as Messi and Ronaldo, and Sutton even mentioning any comparison, even one of the moment, smacks of this habit of exaggeration. Nothing to do with blue specs.
133 Posted 05/10/2021 at 16:51:29
134 Posted 05/10/2021 at 16:53:30
135 Posted 05/10/2021 at 17:12:24
Dale - I think Salah has been amongst the best footballers in the world for the last 4 years. He might have had moments in those 4 years where his form was better than it is right now, but I think the form of Ronaldo and Messi was significantly better whenever those moments were. Right now, there's more of an argument to say Salah is at (or even beyond) the level of Ronaldo, who despite his exemplary fitness and condition is inevitably less explosive than his younger self. Age catches up with us all after all - it's just a case of when; I think Salah is in the process of overtaking Ronaldo now. Not Messi though.
136 Posted 05/10/2021 at 17:28:57
Sutton's full comments are the following:
'At this moment in time, he's better than Messi and Ronaldo. 'His numbers have been sensational the last few seasons. To do it on that stage, which he has done for so many years, it just sums up how brilliant he is. 'Consistency is what you look for and he is doing it season after season after season where others are falling away and Liverpool still haven't signed him up.'
'His numbers have been sensational the last few seasons. To do it on that stage, which he has done for so many years, it just sums up how brilliant he is.
'Consistency is what you look for and he is doing it season after season after season where others are falling away and Liverpool still haven't signed him up.'
I don't see anybody in this thread misunderstanding Sutton's words as meaning Salah is a better player than CR7 or Messi, period.
It is understood that he is claiming Salah is better than both of them in the HERE and NOW. But what is the breadth of the timescale by which Sutton makes such a claim?
He bases that premise on his 'sensational numbers, on the big stage, over many years' and his 'consistency, year after year, while others fall away.'
Salah has been 'doing it' with Liverpool for 3-4 years. CR7 and Messi have 'done it and continue to do it' at much higher levels and greater consistency for 20 and 17 years respectively.
They have NOT fallen away. Ever. Salah did 'fall away' somewhat just last season.
Just this summer, CR7 was the Euros' top goalscorer for Portugal. Messi won the Copa America with Argentina, overhauling Pele's record of being the competition's highest ever goalscorer in doing so.
Personally Andrew, I cannot understand why you seemingly resent other posters offering sound subjective (and objective) alternative opinions to that of Sutton's given the reasons he himself offered on which he based his claims as I outlined.
It's getting into the realms of saying that he is the best player in the world...well, for this weekend, anyway.
137 Posted 05/10/2021 at 17:43:27
Jay, what's with the CR7, can't you spell? Is CR7 the shirt and not Christian Ronaldo? Is it something like Knight to King's Bishop 3? K-KB3.
138 Posted 05/10/2021 at 17:54:47
But surely Beckenbauer is up there?
And you'll activate the Keeper's union too!!
139 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:02:42
Why are the great attacking players better than Beckenbauer, Maldini, Baresi, Southall, Shilton and may more? It's too much of apples vs oranges
140 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:06:52
The annoying thing is that when he leaves they'll just pick up another top echelon striker for relative buttons as they have for decades
141 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:22:16
Probably Lukaku, because they already have players who can do what Salah does and, in the case of of Foden, a player who's still got a dozen years of top level football ahead of him.
142 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:33:26
Yes, great goalies and defenders, and midfielders, might be seen as different in that their main job isn't scoring goals but helping create and stop them. I suppose scoring goals creates the most interest.
But from the viewpoint of something like elegance, players like Bechenbaur and Zidane are unbeatable.
143 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:41:38
As for resenting other posters subjective opinions - thats just not me Im afraid. And Im not the one who has described anothers opinion as “ill-considered nonsense of the highest order.” All I have done is question why some posters are not able to stick to the essence of the argument and have decided to broaden it in order to give their subjective opinion more weight. I think that is fair, and if anything should be encouraged not silenced.
Ive often watched on in horror (and sometimes sincere admiration) when youve gone to head to head with others over minor disagreements that have become epic displays of futility, so Im going to fold this hand here. Maybe one day youll fold early, but I doubt itll be today.
144 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:43:15
But not as good as Salad.
Sorry, that's a poor comparison. I just want to use that more.
145 Posted 05/10/2021 at 18:51:21
146 Posted 05/10/2021 at 19:12:34
Wonderful. I only saw it about an hour ago and have watch it three times already.
147 Posted 05/10/2021 at 19:29:31
148 Posted 05/10/2021 at 19:36:25
A stupid comment like that is designed to get everyone talking and that is what he is paid to do.
Don't feed the troll.
149 Posted 05/10/2021 at 19:44:14
150 Posted 05/10/2021 at 19:51:47
'I find it somewhat disconcerting that rather than engage with what Chris Sutton said - which is sadly a viewpoint that anyone with severely blue-tinted spectacles just cannot and will not be prepared to stomach - several posters on here would rather extrapolate from it an argument that they feel that they can more adequately defeat. Straw man anyone?'
Playing at being Derren Brownism yourself there, Andrew. That and being dismissive of perfectly valid counter opinions, incorrectly labelling them as 'straw man' arguments whilst indulging in ad hominem attacks with posters rather then genuinely engage with what they've ACTUALLY said.
Me telling me what YOU think? Read the first four words of my post @ 136 you take exception to. 'Frankly Andrew, I think...'
I'm offering my opinion on the above quoted paragraph in which YOU engage in the very practice you accuse others in this thread of doing.
Posters HAVE stuck to the essence of Sutton's comments. He offered a subjective opinion. Others offered their own subjective opinion.
I and others have spelt it out very clearly that this is a subjective issue with no right or wrong or absolutely definitive answer.
What's your issue with that?
To repeat something I said earlier, if you want to give credence to Chris Sutton's hyperbole, feel free to do so.
I don't. I won't.
151 Posted 05/10/2021 at 23:11:15
152 Posted 05/10/2021 at 23:34:29
I suspect not. They'd developed way better intellect by then.
153 Posted 05/10/2021 at 23:42:04
154 Posted 06/10/2021 at 09:13:26
As for Salah, the man is a serial cheat and unless being compared with someone like Tom Daley, should never be talked of in the same breath as the world's greats.
155 Posted 07/10/2021 at 13:23:51
156 Posted 07/10/2021 at 13:37:41
157 Posted 07/10/2021 at 13:39:56
158 Posted 07/10/2021 at 13:40:06
159 Posted 07/10/2021 at 13:49:48
Dennis, last match there with fans I passed three guys stooping and gasping for breath at level 5 on the stairs; one guy unconscious at level 8; and paramedics doing their best at level 12!
160 Posted 07/10/2021 at 14:10:59
161 Posted 07/10/2021 at 14:19:50
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