Bournemouth 3 - 0 Everton

Everton returned to the Vitality Stadium to face Bournemouth in the Premier League with an almost completely different team to the one that was beaten there on Tuesday but the result was painfully similar – another shocking three-goal defeat.

Franks Lampard makes nine changes to Tuesday's disastrous line-up, with only Patterson and Maupay retaining their places. However, the line-up should perhaps be compared to the one that lost at home to Leicester City last weekend: 

Dominic Calvert-Lewin is ruled out with not one but three injuries since it was revealed that a dislocated shoulder has compounded the hamstring problem he picked up against Leicester, and the knee problem from the beginning of the season, that seems to be far from resolved. 

The Blues got things going in the bright autumn sunshine and tried to retain possession but with far too much sideways and backwards passing, as is now the norm, with Bournemouth interested in giving the forwards any space, forcing long balls that generally went to Bournemouth players.

Gray did get forward and played in a cross that reached Maupay who spun and lashed it high and wide, spurning Everton's first chance. Everton were getting plenty of possession. Iwobi fed Patterson for another decent cross, this one inches over the diminutive Maupay's head.  

Everton continued to have most of the play, working the ball forward but Bournemouth were not in a giving mood and repelled them until they came forward themselves and won the first corner that created a decent chance for the home side, a header at the far post.

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Solanke forced himself forward as the Blues invited him into space and he shot at goal, Tavenier was given the easiest of tap-ins as Pickford parried the ball directly to him. Absolutely dreadful from Pickford. 

Everton looked to respond and McNeil was fouled, setting up what should have been a good chance from the set pieces but it was not very clever from Gray,  however, it did give Everton a corner that was cleared. 

In Bournemouth's next attack, Zemura got past Patterson and collided with Pickford, the home side wanting a penalty rather than another corner and the defending of it became a ridiculous joke as Tarkowski went down with a head injury, Pickford was seriously distracted as he parried another ball into the air and Tavenier looped it to the far post where Moore headed in from close range. What an utter fiasco!

In amidst the chaos, it was Mykolenko who was forced off, holding his chest after trying to block Moore in the act of scoring,  and Coleman had to replace him. Maupay was next in the wars, getting a hefty challenge in the back. 

Everton now had a mountain to climb as the VAR resolutely refused to intervene and the Blues were once again forced to try and attack, but Patterson's cross was way over-hit. Then Maupay drew back from chasing down a cross, wanting a corner that was not given. 

Another free-kick from Gray was floated in and too easily defended with the Everton first team showing about as much attacking gumption as the second string had on Tuesday. Coleman tried to get them moving forward but he could only head a cross behind.

Iwobi produced what was laughingly described as Everton's first shot on target, which was little more than a feeble backpass to Travers. Everton then somehow created a chance forSolanke that he drove wide.

Maupay held up ball and felt someone behind him, going down far too easily, never a penalty. 

Just before that, Cook had come in on Onana with tremendous force in a full-blooded two-footed challenge, but the VAR did not think it was serious foul play because he touched the ball fractionally before Onana – not even a yellow card.

Patterson put in a good challenge only to be fouled from behind by Senesi, who was shown a yellow card. 

Another highly controversial moment that drove the Everton players, fans and management mad, as Tavenier ran into Coady and went down, the referee Craig Paulson eventually responding to Bournemouth demands that he stop play. No end of Blues protestations ensued but to no avail. What an utter joke the Premier League refereeing has become. 

The dreadful half for Everton fizzled out with Gray straying offside to abruptly stop a possible attack, before Paulson ended 6 minutes of added time. 

From the restart, Onana powered forward on a great run, Maupay then setting up Gana for a poor shot off target. Bournemouth came closer, Billing glancing a cross wide. Another attack, Zemura fed Solanke for a bobbling shot that Pickford saved. 

Some crazy defending saw Bournemouth surge forward and Tavenier produced a decent low shot that was parried by Pickford as somehow the Blues scrambled the ball away. Stiill, with the ball, Everton's plodding pace was continually thwarted in the final third, while on the turnover, Bournemouth players scampered forward in acres of space. 

Coleman tried to pick out Onana in an advanced position but the big man could not get his head to the ball. In one of their 'better' attacks, the ball at least found the 6-yard box but was easily cleared. Pickford, idiotic as ever, took a goal-kick with the ball still obviously rolling... why?

Gray tried to force an overlap and at least won a corner, with Tarkowski getting around the back of the pack but heading over. Patterson following in on the next attack blazed his shot over;, while at the other end, Solanke fired wide. Then a classic Gray cameo: he takes an age to beat two men with repeated switchbacks before making space to launch his cross... to the corner flag. 

Another surging Bournemouth attack had red shirts thronging the Everton area when Tavenier overhit his cross. 

Then Everton were literally torn apart for the third goal. A wicked free kick was fired in with fantastic pace and accuracy for the sub Anthony to get behind the massed defensive line, evading any markers to nod past Pickford. Easy as piss. 

Iwobi created a glorious triple chance that evaded Maupay and McNeil for Patterson to smash into the side netting beyond the far post. Solanke had the ball in the Everton net for a fourth but it was ruled offside. 

More proactive subs by Lampard with barely 15 minutes left: Maupay, McNeil and Onana were replaced by Cannon, Gordon and Doucoure. Tom Cannon immediately got a headed chance off a good cross from Gordon but it was straight at Travers. 

Zemura almost wriggled his way through five defenders, as Everton played the ball square in defence. A dreadful cross from Gana summed up how utterly awful the game was for Everton, although Tom Cannon was doing his best to make something of this exceptionally rare opportunity to show Lampard what he could do. 

Gray tried the direct path, his shot blocked for a corner that Billing headed behind; the next cleared away and The Cherries were on the break again, Billing getting loose but firing across goal when he could have really punished this sorry Everton crew.    

More good work from Cannon but he couldn't find a blue shirt with his hard-won cross. After Cannon was fouled, Iwobi heard something negative from the aggrieved fans, and reacted. Of course, nothing came from the Everton free-kick. 

Gray tried a repeat of the goal he scored on Tuesday but this time it flew high and wide. 

Bournemouth: Travers, Smith,  Stephens, Senesi [Y:44'], Zemura, Billing, Cook, Lerma, Tavernier (79' Christie), Moore (67' Anthony), Solanke.
Subs: Fredericks, Rothwell, Stacey, Stanislas, Dembele, Pearson, Plain.

Everton: Pickford, Patterson, Tarkowski, Coady, Mykolenko (29' Coleman), Iwobi, Onana  (75' Doucoure), Gana, McNeil (75' Gordon), Maupay (75' Cannon), Gray.
Subs: Begovic, Keane, Mina, Davies, Mills.


Reader Comments (455)

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Alan J Thompson
1 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:10:18
Rondon must really have pissed off someone when he turned down that transfer with two wingers and no target man.
John Kavanagh
2 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:12:34
Good to see Cannon and Mills on the bench. I'm dubious about having two wide players ostensibly to fire in crosses to a Munchkin in the middle. Hope one or both of the youngsters gets a chance to shine.

Off to the Live Forum now to top up on misery and depression.

Brian Murray
3 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:14:59

I think it's called being a disaster from Benitez and a not very good player, not pissed off.

Tom Dylan
4 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:17:25
No Holgate on the bench, is he injured?

Surprising that Mina and Keane are both there instead of Holgate as he can play in more positions?

Alan J Thompson
5 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:22:34
Sorry, Brian#3, but who is the very good forward/target man in that named team?
Tony Hill
6 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:31:23
Is Garner injured?
Simon Dalzell
7 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:42:34
Tony (6). The Official website says Garner has an injury of an "unknown" nature!!
Tony Everan
8 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:51:19
It's all about our goal scoring ability again.

Hopefully Frank has the front three fully motivated and there's no high balls fired into Maupay from defence or from out wide. Has to be clever passes from midfield or fast low crosses whipped in.


Tony Hill
9 Posted 12/11/2022 at 14:54:36
Simon @7 thanks. God knows what that means.
Simon Dalzell
10 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:24:22
Any streams? I lost mine after 30 seconds.

I know were losing! Oh dear, now 2 down.

Sean O’Hanlon
13 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:50:37
Simon #10 - don't punish yourself, but if you must try
View Full Site, then select football.
Ciarán McGlone
14 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:52:42
Lampard offers very little.

Out of his depth.

Michael Lynch
15 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:56:10
Utterly incompetent reffing display.

Having said that, is there a worse front three in the history of this club than Gray, Maupay, McNeil?

I'm just glad this is the last match for a while, watching Everton is fucking painful at the moment.

David Dumphy
16 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:56:24
Nothing will change until Moshiri and Kenwright go from the top down.
George Cumiskey
17 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:56:42
Gray and McNeil absolute dog shit, I feel sorry for the defence – nothing whatsoever in front of them.

I'm afraid it could be a taxi for Frank after this game.

Bill Fairfield
18 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:59:18
Utterly incompetent Everton display. Blame the refs all you want. Things go against you when you’re crap.
Kieran Kinsella
19 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:59:20
Pawson has done amazingly well to stand out as the worst performer on the pitch.

Bournemouth a rubbish rugby team, Everton a circus, but Pawson is in a league of his own

Ray Smith
20 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:59:21
Every season, same old scrap for survival.

I can't change being an Evertonian, but I despair knowing that, if we survive, it will be the same again next season!!!

15 games in, 23 to go, and I can't see us getting out of this!

Get rid of Kenwright and see the fresh air flood in!

Craig Walker
21 Posted 12/11/2022 at 15:59:43
“We've had some good times.”

“What would Everton do?”

Matthew Williams
22 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:00:49
I think it's time for mass sackings at our beleaguered club...

Jeez, we look so poor.


Fran Mitchell
23 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:01:04
The referee has been atrocious. but his performance is only the 12th worst on the pitch, cause the 11 players out there have been terrible.

That is just quite simply the worst front 3 in the Premier League.

Kieran Kinsella
24 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:01:19

Sounds like he needs an exorcism, as does the club.

Frank Crewe
25 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:02:58
Can't score, can't defend. A winning combination...for whoever our opposition is.
Adrian Evans
26 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:02:59
Guess its our fault... Moshiri, Kenwright, all of us. We get behind Frank, as we are supposed to, 12th man dug the team out the shit. 2-0 halftime v Palace.
Frank's,kidded everyone. He's had a year, now trying to survive in the Premier League with no threat up top.

15 games, 14 points.
23 games 69 points on offer,
Where is he getting 30 points from?

Still got Big Sam's number!!


Sean Dyche, difficult to beat, good chance he can get 30 points.

Or sell everyone we can, £150million on two strikers, take our chances with Frank.

Who knows anymore.

Oh... Big Duncan???

Dean Williams
27 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:04:36
Time to get rid of this muppet. I'll gladly drag him out of Goodison myself, Kenwright included.

Brendan McLaughlin
28 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:05:18
If it wasn't for Kenwright, Moshiri, Barret-Baxendale, Uncle 'Arry, the VAR, referees, Pickford, Maupay, Coleman, Bournemouth, and Bournemouth reserves... we'd be fecking flying under Frank.

Kieran Kinsella
29 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:05:22
Bring on Cannon and Mills.

Or better yet, Cannon and Ball – they're used to slapstick comedy.

Alan J Thompson
30 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:06:00
Thanks to Optus bloody awful service, I thought the second goal was the only one of the match until the commentator said they can't be happy with a 2-goal lead!

We started well enough possession-wise but still taking too long to play it out from the back and, when we did get into their box, there was nobody of any use there. Maupay was useless with the first and just not good enough in the air for the second chance. Gray has been rubbish and McNeil, again, might as well not be there.

For one of the goals (the one I saw), the defence moved out but again Mykolenko didn't go with them, hanging back a metre and then the stupid (non) rule change about head injuries, you either stop play for them, in which case the goal should not have been allowed, or you just ignore it altogether.

We really must try something upfront as Maupay is just a waste of space; unfortunately, he might not be the only one.

Sean O’Hanlon
31 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:06:16
Pickford back to his worst!
Michael Lynch
32 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:06:27
Atr least we won't be in the bottom three for the World Cup break, as the Shite are pounding Southampton. So, if I was Frank, I'd stick Mills and Cannon on and see if either of them can improve the team.

As it is, I'm not sure how we stay up this season unless the Bottom 3 stay as shit as they are. We are worse than last season in every department except the back four.

Bill Gall
33 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:06:35
The poor display from the referee was fully displayed when the Everton player went down clutching his head and play carried on.

Later ,a Bournemouth player went down clutching his head and the referee stopped the game.

Fran Mitchell
34 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:08:22
We need at least two, probably three attackers in January cause none that we have on the pitch should be starting games in the Premier League.

Jim Bennings
35 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:09:45
As I said after Tuesday night's debacle, this club is doomed and conditioned only to fail and perennially be shit.

No matter who manages the club, after a certain amount of months, it's back to the same shite we had before he came, all because the bar at Everton FC is set so low.

Football is about daring and making yourself a hero, scoring goals and being full of adventure as Brentford showed today. Ivan Toney go and make yourself a hero, he did.

Look at our players, scared shitless with the ball at their feet, none can pass, shoot, commit men to score goals? No chance.

The fear of winning is now even overriding the fear of losing.

Rob Dolby
36 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:10:26
Why are we the only club that continually shoot ourselves in the foot.

Pickford... for fuck's sake!

Paterson with the stupid flick that led to the corner for the 2nd.

Ref with double standard head injuries

2 footed tackles are now okay according to the VAR.

Glad there is a world cup as the transfer window can't come quickly enough.

Gary Johnson
37 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:12:38
Three right-footed defenders on the bench, and not a single spare left-footed one. If that doesn't show the folly and cowardice of our manager, I don't know what does.

Needs to be sacked today…..or we will go down. It's a fantasy that he's improved anything at all.

Jim Bennings
38 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:36:29
Oh well... the end of another manager.

You can't even get a draw in two matches against fucking Bournemouth??

The bar is so low at this club it's absolutely startling.

Compare what Newcastle have performed like since their takeover.

Look at Leeds, look at Brighton, look at Brentford.

Why is this club never ever ever capable of moving even remotely forwards?

Craig Walker
39 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:38:37
The last season at Goodison will be spent in the Championship if we don't get a decent forward line. We stayed up last season. Just. This team is worse up front with Richarlison gone and other teams are better.
Bill Fairfield
40 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:39:54
Absolute embarrassing garbage.

Won't be long now, Frank.

Simon Dalzell
41 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:44:41
Total unwatchable shite.

Thank God for the World Cup.

Michael Lynch
42 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:46:17
We survived by the skin of our teeth last season, but surely this team is doomed.

We actually look worse than we did last season, and we don't have RIcharlison or Calvert-Lewin.

Jim Bennings
43 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:46:35
This is what happens when you sit there all summer ignoring the fact that the centre-forward you have has been injured for 12 months and looks like being completely injury-prone yet you are willing to wait until the 12th of never for him.

Instead, we should have made three really good attacking signings.

We sign McNeil, Maupay two utter wastes of space. To be fair to Maupay, he looked half decent in a good footballing team at Brighton but at Everton he was never going to work.

James Garner was just a weird move, why not play him when it's so obvious Onana is completely out of his depth right now?

Gana was half understandable but let's be honest, he's not much different than the fella we just let go, Allan.

Onana for £35 million, Jesus Christ, can't even control the football let alone offer anything.

David Dumphy
44 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:50:00
It comes from the top down: Moshiri and Kenwright – nothing will change until they're gone.
Phil Rodgers
45 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:50:14
Those poor fans that went down there twice to watch this.

Utterly disgraceful and shameful.

Fran Mitchell
46 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:50:25
The ineffective, woeful performance of both McNeil and Maupay is a damning indictment of our transfer business… just awful, both of them.

But Lampard should be getting more from this team. We are in real danger of going down, make no mistake.

I really wanted Lampard to work, but it looks like yet another dudd.

We have 6 weeks off, these 6 weeks must be used to go back to the drawing board and sort out the mess we're in.

2 weeks to identify a new manager, 4 weeks for him to work with the players.

There must be a manager in the Championship, Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, Holland, South America who could do a job.

Steve Stobie
47 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:51:11
I've literally just logged on to watch a feed and for 3 minutes I watched Bournemouth's men walking all over Everton's children. Maupay so weak on the turn and dispossessed like I take the ball off the feet of my 10 year old son, whenever I choose to do so... Not only that but Everton players trotting round like the game doesn't even matter, culminating in Anthony literally jogging unmarked in the centre of the box to calmly nod home their third. There's only one word for what I've just witnessed - pathetic!!

None of these players deserve to wear my beloved Everton shirt, and now I am firmly of the opinion that Lampard has to go. That will now be 1 win and 1 draw, with 6 shameful losses in 8 games. That I'm afraid is sack territory. I don't think I can even bring myself to thank him for keeping us up last season, and the reason is, because he didn't. The fans kept us up, roaring Everton to safety, Lampard was as much along for the ride as the rest of us. He has shown at every club he's managed that he gets a boost out of a team when he first arrives, nobody can doubt his talent as a footballer, and that no doubt carries a team so far at first, but over time Derby, Chelsea and us have all struggled, so his coaching ability has to be called into question.

Who would be my choice, now please feel free to laugh, but this is it Dunc, this is your chance. Time for him to put everything he's learned under all the managers he served as a first team coach into practice. I was so proud for him when he got given the caretaker role prior to Lampard's appointment, and yes, we lost that game against Villa, but Lampard hasn't beaten them since either. Furthermore, you know those training videos they put up on You Tube, the team looked like they were training a million times harder and with a lot more discipline, technique and fun in Dunc's training sesh, compared to anything seen under Lampard.

Step up Dunc. We've still got two thirds of the season to go and your passion, together with the belief and fight you can instil will hopefully carry us on to better things.

Craig Walker
48 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:53:22
Amazing how quickly it turns bad for us.

Benitez got a draw at Old Trafford. A week later (I think) was the Watford debacle. Norwich away was a nadir.

A similar story this season. Palace home and people crowing about our play. A few weeks later and we look dreadful.

We should have sold Gordon. Gueye's mythical status as a good midfield player was always a bit baffling. Decent on his day but not Peter Reid. Onana looks as good as Schneiderlin.

Who next? Sean Dyche?

Fran Mitchell
49 Posted 12/11/2022 at 16:53:56
However, David Moyes until the end of the season would do me.
Michael Lynch
50 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:00:28
"Iwobi threw his shirt to a fan, and the fan threw it straight back"

I love our fans.

Joe McMahon
51 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:01:33
I decided to watch the rugby as I suspected the result would be similar to what the final score was. It's hard to accept by this is the worst sqaud we have had since the '50s. No goals in this team whatsoever, it's the result of years of failure from the board. I hold one person accountable for the demise. Frank will be sacked, and then what?

Fran @49, I assume you've seen where West Ham are in the league? Hammers fans want him gone.

Peter Hodgson
52 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:03:49
Just signed in after my "total lost interest" post on Tuesday's debacle to find that today's performance was just as bad if not worse. Unbelievable! I thought things might have changed. How wrong I was. Not about giving up on Everton but hoping that it might be better today. False hope unfortunately.

After this, I stick by my Tuesday comments. Good luck everyone. The Evertonians that are left out there will need all the luck that is going their way.

Nearly 70 years down the pan. Thanks, Uncle Bill, because you have to carry the majority of the can for this, plus Moshiri's ineptitude.

Robert Tressell
53 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:04:03
Serious situation. Manager looking out of his depth. Squad looking badly assembled. Story of Everton since the end of Martinez's first season.

Only Ancelotti and Allardyce have had the maturity and nous since then, and only showed it briefly (hoovering up a few high-wage has-beens and failures too).

What a mess.

Steavey Buckley
54 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:04:19
Everton players would have difficulty passing wind. Doesn't get any worse having Gana and Onana in midfield. Crucial part of the pitch which demands high-quality passing just to keep any team in contention.
Tony Hill
55 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:05:28
I don't think anyone has the faintest clue what to do about this club.

The poison has seeped down from the top for a long, long time. It seems to me that words and analysis are futile now.

Far too many at the club and in the team are – and have been for ages – shameless parasites and cowards. Fuck them all.

Mal van Schaick
56 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:06:12
The demise of Everton. We will be lucky to stay up this season, and to make matters worse they had summer to sort the mess out and have failed miserably.
Michael Lynch
57 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:06:15
Onana should be dominating these games, but he goes missing for 75% of it. Something badly wrong there, someone needs to be getting in his fucking ear.

Patterson has loads of potential, but he's going to make errors. It's a shame he's in such a shit team. Iwobi tries his best. Other than that, the team simply isn't good enough, and I'm really starting to doubt Lampard's ability as a manager.

Danny Baily
58 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:06:36
Sooo Long. Frank-Lam-Pard.
Fran Mitchell
59 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:06:42
Yes, Joe, he could well be available and thus we would have him as an interim until end of season.

It's fallen flat with him at Hammers this season, but his work there has been excellent. When he took over they looked relegation fodder and he took then to Europe.

I wouldn't have him long term, we need to develop a strategy long term. But for the remainder of this season to save our Premier League status, I would certainly have him back.

John Hall
60 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:06:51
Shambles again.

Time waits for no man, Frank – said to emphasize that people cannot stop the passing of time, and therefore should not delay doing things. Waiting.

What do they do in training?

Pass and move, create space for runners, oh can't do that as we don't have any.

Sideways and back, sideways and back, no outlet.

Show some heart and guts for those that follow you everywhere. Levels dropped below what is expected, we heard the other night. Well, we got the same again today, Frank.

Kieran Kinsella
61 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:08:59
Unlucky in many respects, a few flimsy moments, sad dismal refereeing…

I'm totally kidding — that was shite.

Gavin Johnson
62 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:09:15
Franks got to be backed in January or sacked. It can't go on like this, or else it will be a hard relegation fight all over again.

We have 6 weeks. I'd like to think we are talking to managers, and we might do something like Villa did, and make a swift appointment.

We need attacking players. Maupay is awful and Cannon did more than Maupay has, since his winner against West Ham, all those weeks ago,

Bill Fairfield
63 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:09:47
Our fans telling them all to deservedly do one. Iwobi giving his shirt as a peace offering, while he goes off to count his hundred grand. Glad it was chucked back at the useless prat. Everyone of our brilliant fans should be refunded by the club.
Will Mabon
64 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:10:23
This time, Michael, I'm not so bewildered. This result is exactly what this kind of "performance" produces.

Shocking 5 days, frankly not good enough for this club and fans.

Ian Edwards
65 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:11:56
Not sure how much more I can take of this club. I can't see where the next goal is coming from. Defence can't keep clean sheets. Midfield doesn't protect or create. Wingers that don't assist. Lone forward who gets no service.

I don't see 3 teams worse than us.

Two 3-goal defeats to Bournemouth in 4 days.

Another managerial change soon as Lampard can't survive this.

Matthew Williams
66 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:12:12
Absolute dogshit, shameful, no bottle, no heart, no pride and totally clueless as well.

We only turn up for away games when there's no fans in the ground. The Lampard experiment has failed, we need a proper gaffer who is pro-active and fucking ruthless too. All our players need a major boot up the arse, pronto.

Another shite weekend!

Gavin Johnson
67 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:14:05
Where the hell were Garner and Vinagre? When Coleman came on at left-back, it was like having PTSD flashbacks under Benitez.
Ian Bennett
68 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:14:08
Just feel sorry for the loyal away fans who follow this shit. Spending good time and money on this is a joke.

It's like a dark comedy, really dark.

Alan J Thompson
69 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:14:13
No plan, no shape, no idea and nothing upfront until Cannon came on and did more with his first two touches than Maupay did in 75 minutes. Indeed, until the 75th minute, it looked like we passed the ball in the direction of our goal more than Bournemouth did!

Anyone thinking we are not in a relegation fight because of the number of games to go really isn't watching our pathetic efforts. Something, maybe someone, really has to change!

Kevin Molloy
70 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:15:48
I'd have taken even a plucky draw today. But no, he's got to go after that.

Sack him, wait for West Ham to sack Moyes, and pop him in there til season end, and if he does a good job another 2 years.

Job's a good'un

Pat Kelly
71 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:15:58
I can't think of anything positive Lampard has brought to the Club. Turned us into a team that can't score or even shoot on target. Leaking goals. Looking shambolic.

His signings have done nothing to improve the team. Why should he be given more time? He's lost the players.

Danny Baily
72 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:17:00
The worst thing is the wait till the next match. Terrible way to go into the international break.
Phillip Warrington
73 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:17:48
Fuck – this could have been 5- or 6-nil, we had one shot on target and I think another 2 or 3 shots that missed the target.

Our football… we don't play football and I'm sorry – people can blame past and present players and managers – but our current manager has no clue.

I could not believe we are behind and all our dead ball restarts see our players ambling around like they're on a picnic. No desire or urgency, just let somebody else take the initiative – and nobody does.

Will Mabon
74 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:17:49
Look at that table, for God's sake. Again. Everton are becoming more and more established as a marginal low-quality club. Dismantled and destroyed from within.
Stuart Sharp
75 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:18:05
Out of order, Bill. He works his arse off. He has limited quality, but that, and his wages, are not his fault.

But I agree about the refund. 7-1 on aggregate against one of the leakiest defences in the league... shocking.

Tony Everan
76 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:18:49
1) Can't score – no goals in five of the last six Premier League games. We don't look like scoring either, I've given up expecting us to score a goal.

2) Started to leak soft goals – nine in the last three games against mid-table and lower teams.

It's the perfect storm for relegation.

Big decisions now. Stick or twist with Frank? Without more quality up front, whoever is the manager will suffer the same fate.

The last four matches against Fulham, Leicester, Bournemouth B and Bournemouth A, we have looked clueless as a team. No visible game plan, no cohesion, poor passing, mistakes, slow for much of the games, out-fought by opponents to the second ball, weaker in the tackle, weaker in the air. Terrible to watch.

If Benitez was in charge of this ineptitude, the pitchforks would be out.

There's some mitigation for Frank: Richarlison has not been replaced by anywhere near the same quality, but the £35M on McNeill and Maupay could have been spent better. All our eggs were in the Calvert-Lewin staying fit basket for the goalscorer.

You could argue any manager would struggle, but other clubs with lesser resources are doing better than him, so his position is very precarious.

Ian Edwards
77 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:19:12
Just seen a video on Toffee TV and one fan shouts "Fuck you, Iwobi" and there are angry scenes, pushing and shoving, involving two black fans and Iwobi is talking to the Ref and pointing at them.
Garry Martin
78 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:19:23
Where's big Dunc ?
Kevin Turner
79 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:19:37
Teams around us are picking up points and improving while we are in freefall. The signs are ominous unless drastic improvements are evident from Boxing Day onwards.

I have supported the club for over 60 years and not even during the darkest of days (there's been too many of them, to be honest) have I felt this bad about our prospects.

With a very heavy heart and sadness, I've joined the growing band of supporters who think yet another manager is going out the door. Quite what Frank Lampard thinks of this group behind closed doors, I don't know… but we have a collection of the biggest cowardly, spineless, uninspiring imposters in my memory.

Where to turn? Tuchel? I won't be joining the Big Dunc bandwagon. His fervour and love of the club just wouldn't work for very long with the current mercenaries in our top league who are frankly stealing a living.

What's gone wrong with our youth set-up? Every 2 years or so, the year groups should produce a prospect with the real chance of making the first team squad. We've had Barkley and now Gordon who looked the real deal but Gordon has joined Barkley in becoming a Big Time Charlie before they've reached the required Premier League level.

Is it us Scousers who can't apply the level of professionalism because they're still hanging around with their old mates? Is it because they have had smoke blown up their arses from a tender age?

Arsenal are producing prospect after prospect through their Academy. We have first-hand experience of our youth set-up. Total amateurs. Doesn't look like it's improving.

Out the door - Lampard, Holgate, Mina, Keane, Gueye, Doucouré, Davies, Gray, O'Neil, Maupay, Calvert-Lewin, Rondon.

Ray Smith
80 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:28:08
Kevin @79,

Like you, I've done 58 yrs through thick and thin, however, you have put into words how I'm currently feeling.

Relegation battle after 15 games.

Never been this despondent.

John Graham
81 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:30:01
Total disgrace.

Why keep using the same bunch of useless players, who haven't got a clue about winning a football match? They need to be dropped now and bring in players with some imagination.

Why put Stanley Mills in the squad if he's not going to get used.? He creates and converts chances every week in the U21s – give him his chance.

Lampard needs to have the bottle to drop players completely from the squad, starting with his beloved Iwobi, and any other total waste of space; if he can't, then he needs to pack it in and go be a pundit.

Load of shiiiitte!!!

Gerry Quinn
82 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:30:21
I wouldn't put it past Moshiri appointing Gerrard as he did Benitez — wouldn't put it past him!!!!!

Useless bloody owner.

Joe Digney
83 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:31:10
Looked good for 15 minutes, ran out of ideas, then resorted to becoming shitbags.
Don't need to go into depth as I'm sure fellow ToffeeWebbers have pointed out what needs to be said.

Those traveling blues deserve so much more, making that journey twice in a week, how many other clubs' supporters would do that? Not many.

Won't be watching a minute of this shit show of a World Cup so now I've gotta stew on this for over a month… oh to be a Blue.

Christy Ring
85 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:31:42
Totally clueless... I don't know what the answer is now because you have two of the biggest problems at the club deciding our future: Moshiri & "I love me more than Everton" Kenwright.
Ian Edwards
86 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:32:29
Failed to score in 5 of last 6 games. He must go.
Adrian Evans
87 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:33:35
Heart says give Big Duncan a go. He would get more than 14 points from the next 15 games, but not enough. We need 33 points minimum to be out the shit.

So me, I'd chat to Big Sam, tell him "You're in, but you can stay and here is £100million, also sell who you like. Also, if you keep us up, you're staying. If we go down, get us back up, first go."

We can go down this time if we stick with Bluffing Frank!!!

Do it now.

If not him, Sean Dyche, get him in Monday, back to work so he can study the players, the games we played. He can keep us too.

No time for experimenting with a manager who doesn't know the Premier League. Rooney has aura, the ear of the players, but no experience.

Get it done and out of the way by Monday. Please don't wait till Boxing Day. 5 more games, if Wolves win tonight, we are deeper in the crap.

It's a new league from Boxing Day, any three from 12 going down and we're the worst team by a mile.

Danny O’Neill
88 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:35:23
I'll have to come back tomorrow with any sense of sensibility.

Waiting for the train and long journey home. Not as long as some, but we've just all travelled and spent money to see us concede 7 goals against Bournemouth twice in 4 days.

Only 2 players come out with any credit. Iwobi trying his best. I hope that fracas at the end wasn't a few dickheads and as I heard on the way back to the station, racist, which may have caused his reaction. He was the only one trying to make something happen.

And Seamus. He done well when you consider he was played on the left. He never lets us down. Unlike a lot of the others.

But if you have nothing to aim for or look up to, what do those players do? Where can they go?

I'll have to watch it back, not that I want to. Pickford for the first. Why didn't he take it?

Forgive me. On my way home and a bit raw.

Remembrance Day tomorrow. Lest we forget.

Jeff Armstrong
89 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:35:27
Kevin @79,

You are correct, of course, but I'm afraid we're stuck with your list, including Frank Lampard.

We simply cannot afford to get rid of him and his 20-man entourage, let alone spray a load of cash at a new man and his entourage.

Before someone say's we can't afford not to sack him as it will cost more to be relegated…

Guess what,

Moshiri is no longer arsed!

Simon Dalzell
90 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:38:36
This break should really be a godsend. He has to go. Today was the worst ever. (Yes it's been said before.)

We got off the hook last season. We're now worse, and the rest better.

Will Mabon
91 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:41:13
Dyche got sacked as he was heading toward relegating Burnley.
Jeff Armstrong
92 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:41:40
Iwobi and the squad's reaction at the end suggests it might have been racist; if so, it's a sad day in more ways than one for this club.

99.9 % of Evertonians are decent people, but like everywhere else, there's racists, bigots, right-wing imbeciles and morons amongst us, no use denying it, we've all heard it, home and away.

Barry Hesketh
93 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:43:28
If the New Stadium opens for the 2024-25 season, we have a dozen top-flight matches left at the Old Lady, unless of course by some miracle the fortunes and results of the current crop rapidly improve.

Today's players have no sense of history, no sense as to how important the game is to the supporters, and seem only to be interested in their bank-balances and media profiles.

Imagine the likes of Ratcliffe, Reid, Gray, Labone, Ball, Watson et al allowing their teams to show such little fight and appetite for the game as the Everton players of the last few seasons have shown?

Leaving Goodison will be a wrench, but to leave it as a Championship club is truly unforgiveable!

Allan Board
94 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:44:28
No answers to this. At least the run-up to Christmas can't be ruined by these wankers.

Frank's had a year – now we are worse – no use getting a shouty manager in though, these will down tools quicker than they do usually.

Relegation and start again. We can have our club back then.

Absolute bewilderment – really, I am just bereft of what is wrong.

Does anyone care for Everton anymore? Or is it just the fans again?
We deserve medals.

Mark Andrews
95 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:44:48
What did we learn today?

Our first team is marginally less shit than the second 11 and the club has no direction or plan.

Tony Hill
96 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:45:37
That would top off the perfect day, Jeff @92.

I fear you are correct but let's profoundly hope not.

Marc Hints
97 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:46:36
Frank will be sacked. West Ham lost so Moyes will be sacked. Kenwright will then appoint Moyes, we all know the story.
Kevin Molloy
98 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:47:17
Don't worry, Barry, we won't be leaving Goodison.
Michael Lynch
99 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:48:09
Jeff, I haven’t heard racism at Goodison in years, and the last time at an away game was at least a decade ago.

I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist at Everton, just saying we haven’t all heard it.

Thomas Hughes
100 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:48:56
Well, that's all three promoted sides now this season and it's yielded just one goal (last minute at home to Forest) and one point. That's our progress from last season where we at least beat Norwich at home.
Barry Hesketh
101 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:49:19
Kevin @98

I also have some doubts about the stadium being completed on time, if at all, given the current economic forecasts for the next couple of years.

Trevor Peers
102 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:49:34
He's got to be sacked now – that's the only conclusion after that abomination.

Clearly Frank hasn't got a clue tactically and any feel-good factor he got from our relegation escape, which was mainly down to our supporters, has now evaporated.

Giving him more time will be a disaster; allowing him to spend money would be a huge gamble too, he won't be able to recruit the forwards we require.
He's had enough time, proving that not only is he inept with his game management, but is also lacking in leadership skills. It now looks like he's lost the dressing room as well.

His persistence in playing 4-3-3 without any 'plan B' marks him down as stubborn and inflexible. Lampard has to be replaced or we will face another cliffhanger of a relegation battle.

Danny Baily
103 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:50:06
Marc 97, sounds good to me.

Frank's a nice fella, but there's no room for sentiment. Looked pretty toxic at the end there.

Marc Hints
104 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:52:57
I have just seen the videos, Danny, doing the rounds on Twitter, very toxic and shirts thrown back at players.
Ian Riley
105 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:55:27
Frank will resign.
Pat Kelly
107 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:56:49
When you see the players giving up, you know they've lost faith in the manager. They've concluded he hasn't a clue and it's not working.

There's no way back for Lampard. He should stick to media appearances and stay well away from management.

Sean Roe
108 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:58:15
Frank has to go immediately. Yes, the squad is shit but things are getting worse by the game and he hasn't got a clue what to do.
Danny Baily
109 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:58:54
Marc, the only think Frank brought to the table was good vibes. Without those, we'd be right to pull the trigger.

Shame Villa beat us to a decent manager.

Richard Nelson
110 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:59:02
"Mothball" the new Stadium till 2035, after the clear-out.

It'll take 10 years to get back to the Premier League!

Adrian Evans
111 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:59:10
I swear to God, if Moshiri & Kenwright take us down to spend the last season at Goodison there, I won't take my season tickets up. I won't step foot in the new stadium till Moshiri & Kenwright are gone.

If 35,000 of us don't sort out Moshiri & Kenwright, who's going to?

60 years, at times from all over the world, wars etc.

They've got 23 games to get this right, keep us up for the 2023-24season.
They've got to Act Now and not get this wrong. If they do, it will be the 2023-24 season in the Championship… a New Stadium in the Championship!!!!

Whatever it costs Moshiri, failure could be hundreds of millions, an empty Goodison and New Stadium.

Act now, we need proven experience, success at survival, 23 games.

Brian Wilkinson
112 Posted 12/11/2022 at 17:59:29
Tony @76, the pitchforks were out for Rafa, even after some decent early results, before injuries all over the place hit us.

Honest question: Can Mills on the wing be any worse than those ahead of him? Or Cannon given a start? Or even Issac Price? None of these are getting anywhere near a game. Then, on Tuesday evening, 3-1 down, around 9 minutes to go, they get thrown in. Today, 3-0 down, 15 minutes to go, Cannon gets a little runout.

Thank god there is a World Cup break and we can try at least to bring some forwards in, in January. Only for the break, I think we would be right in the shit if we had to play another 7 or more games until then.

Brian Hennessy
113 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:02:57
We have tried sacking various different managers and it pretty much had the same outcome each time – a little improvement before we return to Square One.

We all know what needs to happen but will never happen. The one thing that has remained the same through the worst period in the club's history, is the Chairman. A narcissist such as him tries to control everything so, if anyone thinks he has no effect on what happens on the pitch, think again.

I'm not saying Lampard is our saviour and for sure he has made huge mistakes with some of his team selections and tactics. But only when we get rid of Kenwright can we begin to rebuild this club.

Our anger needs to be directed towards the Chairman and all our efforts should be on removing him before anyone else.

Gavin Johnson
114 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:03:08
I think I saw somewhere that there's a clause in Franks contract that the club inserted that he gets little to no pay off if he's sacked.

There's 6-week break, I think we should sack him. Poch is the dream, albeit a deluded one, so go and get Moyes. I'll eat humble pie on that cos my argument was that we'd never win a trophy under Moyes if he came back, but at least he's a stable option that had us performing in the top half.

Graham Hammond
115 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:04:07
John Graham #81.

If you think that dropping Alex Iwobi from the squad completely is the way forward and the way to go, then sadly you do not know your arse from your elbow where football is concerned. Iwobi has been our best player this season so far by quite a distance.

Yes, we were shite today and as a whole, I agree with you, we were collectively a disgrace but your criticism of Iwobi is wide of the mark. I would agree with Danny O' Neill, Alex and Seamus were the two players who at least stuck at it.

The problem at Everton is the recruitment (and has been for a long time) and the pitiful movement of the players who take to the field; both have been shite for as long as I can remember.

Watching Everton currently is like watching one Arsenal player (who passes and moves into space to generally make himself available to his teammates) and nine outfield blue statues. No pace, too little footballing intelligence, no intensity, no movement, just shite dinosaur football with very few goals scored.

To think that fans on this site criticised the likes of Kevin Mirallas and even Richarlison, players that actually made things happen themselves. Who exactly have we got now?

Ian Edwards
116 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:04:51
Just heard Limpard say that we played quite well against Leicester. Is he having a laugh??
Tony Hill
117 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:05:16
Marc @104, very depressing scenes but I heard no racism as has been suggested in some reports, just anger. Justified anger.
Pat Kelly
118 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:05:45
If, as rumoured, there's a break clause in Lampard's contract, it's there for a reason. If he can be sacked without any compensation, then do it now.
Paul Tran
119 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:06:14
Looked to me like the players had given up on him today. Something's going on there, I think.

But the real issue is that we've bought so many players who don't score goals.

Michael Lynch
120 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:10:13
Frank says Garner has a back problem and is seeing a specialist this week. Worrying, cos I was hoping he'd be getting a lot more game time in the second half of the season.

I'd like to see Mills and Cannon get some starts too. They literally cannot be any worse than what we've seen in the last 7 days.

Barry Hesketh
121 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:12:06
Last week, prior to the Leicester game at Goodison, I heard somebody comment that Lampard's annoyance with the team at Fulham might have a detrimental effect on the players, which has shown itself in the games since then

Would Frank have been better to have praised the players for a hard-won point at Fulham or was he right to be annoyed with them?

Colin Malone
122 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:14:27
"Not my fault" comments from Lampard again.

Every team in the Premier League knows how we set our stall out. It will be the same formation on 26 December, if Frank is still here. We know we are going to play with two wingers who are not good enough. midfielders who cannot hold their position, Iwobi and Gana because of the shite on the wings.

A fucking blind man can see it.

Any decent coach would come to Everton tomorrow, change the formation and see a 100% improvement.

Stop blaming the players, Lampard!

Bill Gall
123 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:15:39
The only thing thing in changing managers is who do you go for. You are going to look for a manager that has had experience at the bottom of league and then became successful.

The problem we have is to change the manager, we will have to try and persuade a manager that has been reasonably successful at another club (as Villa done ) or bring in another untried manager or 1 that has just been fired.. Without using foul language we are damned if we do or damned if we don't.

Has Lampard said anything yet, because if he uses the same comments from the last game it will mean he will have coached the whole available squad that has fallen below their standards. And I always thought that as a coach you were supposed to improve them.

Marc Hints
124 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:18:12
Tony #117,

Yes, from the video, Iwobi looked the most upset and was pointing to the fans but not sure what was said, nothing on Twitter about racism.

Think it was just pure anger from the fans, someone said Iwobi gave his shirt and it was thrown back at him.

Peter Jansson
125 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:19:10
We are bad because we play shit football without a logical plan. We cannot win games passing backwards. And still the midfield is not good enough.

The lack of a sound strategy is Lampard's fault. Gana Gueye offers absolutely nothing. Why is he playing game after game? And forget Calvert-Lewin this season also.

Our club must have a serious problem. It seems like we are run by people that do not know how to run things. If this is the best football we can produce, some heads have to be changed.

I think it starts at the top. Moshiri is incompetent and has absolutely no clue how to build a football club. So how is he ever going to be able to hire the right team mix to run the club?

The Lampard hiring was of no logic. He had not done anything special as a manager, rather the opposite, and yet he got the job. He said after one game that our players lacked balls. Come on, a pair of balls have nothing to do with playing bad football?

It is a little more complex to run a football club in 2022. Ask Guardiola or Klopp if they have a balls factor when preparing for a game. What a joke.

With a headless chicken as owner, I am afraid we are doomed. The Lampard solution does not work. But I am not sure that Moshiri will come up with something better. Ancelotti is the only manager that has been better than Moyes after he left.

Eddie Dunn
126 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:19:24
Frank is clueless, his system never changes, he swaps like-for-like, he has no tactical nouce. His coaching team lacks his main man, Jody Morris, and Clement is the most boring coach in existence.

These guys are all on the gravy train as are most of the mercenaries. The club is full of shit from top to bottom. Weak payers, slow players, players lacking bottle, and poor little Iwobi getting all upset when he went over to the fans. That tit will be flying back in luxury tonight.

They all live in a bubble, a big fat expensive bubble, and have forgotten what it is like to graft for a living (if they ever did). Now some will slink off to Qatar and others to Australia for their holidays. I have no sympathy for any of them.

Frank's record is terrible – he is paid handsomely and has failed. There are not any signs that things will get better. He has to go.

Regardless of owners, Kenwright etc, etc... he has to go. He can't be trusted to bring in the right players: Onana, Gueye, Maupay, McNeil... So what makes it a good idea to let him spend whatever we have left on more crap?

Who could do better than Lampard? Answer: anyone on the Live Forum for a start.

David Bromwell
127 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:19:31
There can be no doubt that we are relegation candidates, and it is difficult to see just how things will improve. We might have an okay defence, but midfield and attack are non-functioning.

I was pleased when Frank Laampard was appointed, he is good with words and as a consequence, he has been welcomed and applauded. However, performances and results have failed to improve and he doesn't appear to have any sort of game plan.

Sadly I cannot see how results will get any better, and can understand why people are calling for him to be sacked.

We know from bitter experience that a change in manager is no guarantee for success, but we are currently sinking like a stone and just maybe it's time for us to call time on a manager who seems like a genuine guy but does not appear to be capable of galvanising any sort of improvement.

Peter Neilson
128 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:20:43
Whether it's Frank or a new manager, they need better attacking/creative players. The lack of goals and creativity in the squad stuck out like a sore thumb before the season started.

The likes of McNeil and Maupay weren't the answer but came on "buy now, pay later" terms that were all we could afford after 6 years of Moshiri's inept ownership.

Unless there's money to spend in January and decent players to sign, it'll be another battle for survival. Gloomy but that's where we are.

Colin Glassar
129 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:22:20
I didn't want Lampard. He wasn't even in my top three choices for manager but he's here now and I think we have to stick with him. He's always said he needs another two transfer windows to get his own squad together.

I'm not sure he has the tactical nouse to be managing in this league. He seems to have been found out by his rivals with his tactics, team selections, subs etc… but he also has a very shallow talent pool to draw upon.

A new manager would just add to this dysfunctional squad so what we need is a time-out and a chance to get our heads together again. I don't blame Lampard. I blame the useless, clueless board.

Ian Edwards
130 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:22:25
Marc 124.

I think someone shouted Iwobi was shit and there was pushing and shoving with some fans who may be his family.

Chris Williams
131 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:22:53
I've just watched part of a post-match interview with Coady. He was pretty clear that the crap display was down to the players. He blamed their “standards” in the game, in training. “Nothing to do with the management. To do with the players, their standards.”

It seems to hint at some issues that have led to this latest display, that go beyond what happens on the pitch, but have a direct influence on it. It might be interesting if they show the full interview.

The Sky agenda so far seems to blame the fans for “unsavoury scenes”. We'll see how long that lasts.

Jeff Armstrong
132 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:23:21
It's ridiculous that Cannon is now getting game time because Maupay is obviously shite, Cannon was behind both Simms and Dobbin in the pecking order and yet now he is our best option as a forward.

We've wasted £35 million on McNeil and Maupay when we had better already here, that £35 million should have gone on one decent striker with the kids kept here as back-up.

For me that is on Lampard; foresight is part of his job.

Gavin Johnson
133 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:23:44
Based on the last 3 games, it makes you wonder if Frank's lost the dressing room. He lost it at Chelsea.

I was talking to someone yesterday who has it on very good authority that Lewis Dobbin doesn't get on with Lampard. True, he's just a young fringe player but the assessment of Frank was absolutely scathing.

Dave Ganley
134 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:24:00
Nothing will change until the ethos changes from the top.

I had a lot of time for Moyes, the way he changed things around to make us competitive, but Kenwright latched onto this fucking bringing a knife to a gunfight and we suddenly became the plucky underdogs.

It is never acceptable for Everton Football club to be a plucky underdog. Moyes built a team capable of winning things yet wouldn't let them compete to win things given his negative nature and Kenwright thrived on that fucking underdog mentality.

Until we get rid of this awful mentality from Kenwright and his cronies, then nothing will change. Sack as many managers as you like, and we have, we are still in the same shit state.

After the derby fiasco last season at Goodison, I posted that someone should be in that dressing room saying this embarrassment never happens again. Some clown replied saying it isn't kids' football.

Well, brilliant deduction, deduction clown, we are still putting in the same displays because, according to you, professionals don't need that kind of admonishment.

Rudderless from the very top. Thankfully we, the fans, get a brief respite from the utter garbage we see week after week from these unmotivated players.

A big hand to the away fans who endured these last 2 games, the club really doesn't deserve that kind of following.

Ian Edwards
135 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:24:35
Colin @129.

I really don't think we have time to give Lampard more time. Shots are raining down on us and we have failed to score in 5 of the last 6. This feels the same as Benitez when we lost at Norwich.

Marc Hints
136 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:24:58
Ian #130,

Yes, you can see a lot of pushing and shoving at the front, Pickford was having words and pulling faces too. They did start singing Alex Iwobi name after all the shenanigans.

Stephen Smyth
137 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:26:02
Until any racism is proved, best keep counsel.

What we can say is, where do we go from here?

Moyes? Please god, no...

Michael Lynch
138 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:26:15
The 3-minute video of the after-match scenes that I've seen on Twitter clearly has the fans singing "Oh, Alex Iwobi" from beginning to end.

He may well have been getting some stick from a few of the fans – as did the entire team – but if he was singled out, it sounds like it was for praise more than abuse.

Barry Hesketh
139 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:26:15
I think Frank in his interview following today's game was measured, in so much as he didn't want to throw his players under the bus and did accept some responsibility for the poor performances of the last week.

However, having read somewhere earlier in the week that Everton's board were hoping not to have to spend any money in the upcoming transfer window, Lampard's general demeanour seemed to be one of quiet resignation as to what to expect from the current squad, if additions aren't forthcoming in the next window.

I can't see Lampard getting the sack, unless Martinez is truly in Bill's sights, as some have said. I can't see what a new manager could or would bring to alter the situation, save the usual 'bounce' of having a new face at the helm.

Phil Smith
141 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:26:34
I turned that off after that second goal was allowed to stand. Shocking refereeing but you have to play the whistle. The World Cup-bound lads were already in Middle East.

Frank will survive until play resumes but, if this shite continues, he'll probably go pretty quickly. We just don't look like scoring and that's down to not having a back-up for Calvert-Lewin. Can we bring Simms or Kean back???

Thing is, I don't think any other manager could do much better with this group. We need forward players who can take these chances. Let's get Hazard. Fits the bill. Always injured.

Brendan McLaughlin
142 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:27:39
Potential new game show with Frank off to Australia...

"I'm a Liabilitiy... get me Out of Here!"

Terry Farrell
143 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:27:51
Last 3 games have been very poor. I'm a fan of Frank's and can't stand the "sack the manager" brigade! However, 2-nil down at half-time – Cannon has to come on.

When he finally did, he posed more threat and got in behind than Maupay.

We don't look close to scoring so we need drastic action. Hoping Dom will be fit from Boxing Day onwards is very risky!

Sean Kelly
144 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:30:30
After 60 years supporting this club, I can't recall feeling so demoralised. Frank is way out of his depth in management. Seems like a decent bloke but he should go back to media work.

The common theme in this club is that no-one on the inside gives a shit. I've given up on this club and will not return until Moshiri and that teary-eyed prick are gone.

I wish you people on here a Merry Xmas and best wishes for the future. This Everton thing is a futile exercise. It drains the life out of me. To those that say "It will be alright," I hope you are right but feel you may be wrong this time. After all the hope, I'm done with Everton.

I salute those away supporters for their loyalty and I don't believe any of the comments of racist remarks thrown at Iwobi. True Evertonians are too classy for that. Thanks for the distant memories, Everton.

Ken Kneale
145 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:30:50
There does seem to be a disconnect between the manager and players in recent games which is worrying. Is something going on behind the scenes?

Irrespective, no change of manager will alter the problems which, as Don alludes to very frequently, are higher up the food chain and seemingly unalterable.

Irrespective, a hard season ahead with these players and potential for the unthinkable.

Bobby Mallon
146 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:31:15
I was right there at the front and left at half-time. I was with my little lad who was gobsmacked by the swearing and venom from Everton fans towards the players and to a poor fella sitting with his lad.

Two blokes to the left of me were horrible fuckers, I just wish the stewards and police would have taken them out.

David Peate
147 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:35:39
My first Everton game was over 80 years ago. I suffered the humiliation of supporting the club through the terrible 1940s and early 1950s. Second Division and all.

I have seen it all before. But the team pulled through and it was not long before the Blues were at the top in the 1960s with Harry Catterick.

Give Frank Lampard some slack. I am sure that he will turn our fortunes around.

Tony Everan
148 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:39:00
Michael / Lyndon, after the dust has settled, time for a TW Poll as we have arrived at a fork in the road of Everton’s future.

Frank Lampard - Back or Sack.

Mark Ryan
149 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:39:14
Frank's responses in his presser before this match were poor. The reporter questioned the wisdom of playing a second-string 11 in the cup game. Frank's response was childish and naive. We all know that Holgate, Keane, Doucouré etc had nothing to prove. We all knew they wouldn't come out to prove they deserve a starting position.

Davies, Holgate and Doucouré are the very reason we have struggled over the past few seasons. He saw for himself the appalling attitude at Newcastle away and so he thought it was a good idea not to turn up at Bournemouth and offer fuck all did he?

Someone else has already said on this thread that all he has brought to the club is good vibes. Never a truer word but I've given up on his methods; his credibility has gone down the shitter for me. Fecking clueless.

We should have played our strongest 11 last week and got through to the next round and built confidence. Instead, he's fucked it and it simply shows naivety for me.

Strongest 11 always. Taxi for Lampard.

Ian Edwards
150 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:40:18
How many crosses have McNeill and Gray put in for whoever is up front?? None. They cut inside and then pass backwards or sideways.

Onana and Gueye leave the defence unprotected. McNeil and Gray don't track back.

The whole tactical set-up of the team is absolutely dogshit.

This feels like the end for Lampard.

Ralph Basnett
151 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:40:33
Some would say we are too difficult a position to use the kids and that we have to stick with the seasoned players but it is this pile of shit that has put us there.

Get the kids on. Cannon showed it today and some of the other kids on cameos have shown they have more to offer than the overpaid prats picked every week.

Brendan McLaughlin
152 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:42:42
Tony #148...

Or Crack!

John Graham
153 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:43:08
Average players with an average attitude.

Three defensive-minded midfielders and three very poor lightweight attackers. How are we supposed to create and score goals?

Load of shiiiitte

Bill Gall
154 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:44:56
It's a shame that people swearing is just a common norm these days, even from women as well as men. I may be giving my age away but I remember I could go to a pub with my wife and anyone swearing was told to be quiet, there were women present, and they usually did.

Today, it just seems natural from either men or women, but with more venom at a football match and that is a shame if anyone takes their kids.

I may be behind the times but is Thomas Tuchel still out of work? We do have players who, if coached properly, are capable of a 12th position as long as the coach is ruthless.

David Pugh
155 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:45:17
Unlike many on here, I was there today, and what happened with Iwobi was that he didn't take too kindly to being called a wanker. There was no racist comment at all aimed at him.

It looked like members of his family didn't take too kindly to this at the end and naturally were probably trying to defend him. It took the vast majority of the team to come over to try and diffuse things, with Jordan Pickford in particular saying "It's all my fault, don't be blaming anyone else."

Nick Page
156 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:45:34
Fans need a massive massive protest and get it going to cure us of the Kenwright cancer of mediocrity. But sadly to say, a large section of the fanbase is completely delusional and can't see what needs to happen now for the sake of the club's future.

Should have happened years ago. And to be honest, if you ever called it kopite behaviour or whatever “lad” – you're part of the fucking problem and should be totally ashamed.

Derek Wadeson
157 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:48:54
Some measured comments from Frank Lampard after the game. It was not good enough, he knows that.

Conor Coady said it was on the players. So time for them to pull together. As regards to changing the coach, remember most on here said Eddie Howe was not good enough also.

Kieran Kinsella
158 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:50:01

Yeah, Lampard basically saying the same as you that some of Iwobi's friends were there and there was a “misunderstanding”.

It really looked like a lot of nothing but, with all the cameras rolling and stewards unnecessarily pushing players away, it became a storm in a teacup.

David Pugh
159 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:50:06
David #147.

Spot on. Lampard needs time to sort things out, but of course, all the experts on here demand instant success. The only person to blame is Kenwright…

Kenwright Out!

Tony Hill
160 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:51:16
Nice one, David @147. What was your first game?
Soren Moyer
161 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:53:35
I bet £100 on Fat Frank to relegate us this season. Any takers?
SACK HIM!!! This squad shouldn't be performing this badly!
Gavin Johnson
162 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:53:41
Anyone hear the stat during the game that we're the only club in the Premier League not to score from a corner kick. That's pretty shocking.

Also, bad that we're just putting mindless crosses into the box and expecting Maupay to do anything. Cannon looked much better when he came on.

Brendan McLaughlin
163 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:54:20
David #159

No-one's demanding instant success that I can see. I think most would settle for some signs of improvement.

Andy Meighan
164 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:55:48
And to think there was plenty on here slating James Rodriguez and his injury record. The lad was absolute class and my god how I wish we had a player with a modicum of the creation that man had.

This club from top to bottom couldn't identify a footballer yes I've highlighted the word 'footballer' if it smashed them in the face. Failed to score in 5 of our last 6 league games, what an embarrassing statistic that is. It's horrendous, it really is.

Why doesn't this clueless clusterfuck of a club just go out of buisness and do us all a favour?

Andy Crooks
165 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:56:01
The only things saving the gormless Lampard are his "getting" Everton, his nice guyness, and the awfulness of the possibility of the worst manager in the history of football (Martinez) coming back.

Frank is oozing defeat and despair, he stinks of relegation. What a fucking mess.

Kieran Kinsella
166 Posted 12/11/2022 at 18:56:33

The board need to spend because our squad is not good enough. Gordon and Gray are just about okay as squad players or occasional subs. Neither has the consistency to be a starter. Relying on them plus Calvert-Lewin's fitness was a huge mistake.

Onana being inexperienced and Gueye past it means even as a defensive duo they're not up to scratch. Then you have one full-back who can't attack and the other who keeps making defensive errors.

Just recruitment based on wishful thinking that Patterson, Mykolenko and Onana would come in as potential and suddenly become top class, that Gueye was 4 years younger, and that we can make do with the wingers we had.

Garner may be good for us but again we are talking potential. To paraphrase Bob Geldoff, we need quality players now!

John Pickles
167 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:03:01
Yeah, let's sack the manager again!

After all, this policy has worked so well for us the last 6 years.

Ian Edwards
169 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:04:56
Andy @165.

The manager who got 74 pts and 2 semis. The club was in a far better position when Martinez was sacked than it is now. Even Allardyce had us 8th.

Jeff Armstrong
170 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:05:07
Derek 157,

It wasn't good enough after 35 minutes, everyone could see that, including Lampard, but what did he do about it when he had the chance? Nothing, that's what, nothing!!!

He could have made changes at half-time; he could've changed formations; he could have shuffled his pack – he did nothing.

He sat there bemused and lacking any ideas as to what could be done, he then started making subs, like for like, Cannon and Maupay up top? you're joking...

Have 4 midfielders and ditch the wingers,... don't be silly, we need wide men to feed our strikers, sorry... striker.

And 5 at the back for 45 minutes with Mina on? What do you think I am, experimental?

Do me a favour, we work on this all week, don't you know!

Roger Helm
171 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:05:40
At least we have a few weeks not watching Everton. I will start watching my local lower league team, hopefully to see players making an effort.
Colin Glassar
173 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:06:22
Moyes is about to get sacked by West Ham Utd.

Martinez will probably get the boot after losing in another semi-final.

Fat Sam is enjoying himself in his Spanish harem

And yet these are the managers some of you want back? Amazing!

Brendan McLaughlin
174 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:06:34
John #167,

Nothing wrong with sacking the manager... not picking a better replacement is the issue.

David Pugh
175 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:06:50
Brendan #163.

Lampard has been here for nine months. He's had one transfer window, yet already many are demanding he be sacked. He's had to work with the same players which previous managers had, yet somehow managing to improve the defence.

Much of the “deadwood” has been got rid of, yet Lampard is being crucified. Many on here wanted the best we had (Ancelotti) out, so yes, I'd say many on here are demanding instant success.

Ian Linn
176 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:08:59
Utter shite. The inability of our back line to make any kind of decent forward pass is staggering. Our midfield don't know how to make space to receive the ball and should that happen they have no clue what to do with it.

Maupay and McNeil offer absolutely nothing in terms of creativity. Iwobi excepted, he's the one player who looked like he was trying to do something.

I have stopped enjoying watching games; when I do watch, I know it's just a matter of time before we concede. We are dogshit.

Jim Bennings
177 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:09:36
Andy @165,

What a load of bollox, mate, I'm sorry but that post is utter shite.

Martinez the worst manager in football history? You do realize that we got 72 points with that fella, right? You also realize he signed the most prolific centre-forward that most of us will ever see at this club in our lifetime?

Okay, it went pear-shaped after that but, even in his final season, we attacked with purpose, two Semi-Finals.

We need to have a bit of perspective here. Moshiri probably should have backed Martinez with the money instead of being seduced by the name that was Koeman. In hindsight, that was Moshiri's first big mistake; ever since then, it's just been a snowball effect of pure shite.

Lampard wasted too much money in summer on more ineffective players, sadly.

I said in August we were fucking mental to rely on Calvert-Lewin ever getting on the pitch regularly and I've been proven correct; how Lampard and the people at the club didn't suss that out is beyond me.

Selling Richarlison was another mistake, when we should have taken the Gordon offer, whatever it was touted as, but we championed keeping the Golden Boy.

Club's an absolute piss-up from top to bottom.

Graham Mockford
178 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:14:34
Bobby Mallon #146,

Maybe it's age but, having followed Everton away all over the country and Europe in the 80s and 90s, I went to the Palace game last season in the FA Cup.

It was a real eye-opener. Some absolutely horrible people. I'm sure there are many decent match-going away fans but it felt very different to me 25 years on and not an experience I'd consider repeating.

Brendan McLaughlin
179 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:18:42
David #175

Very few on here wanted Ancelotti out. A very vocal Darren and a few others but ask Darren how his "Ancelotti Out" shout went down on ToffeeWeb and I'd wager he'd admit he didn't have a lot of support.

As I said previously, I'm not demanding immediate success only improvement but we've conceded 7 goals to Bournemouth & Bournemouth reserves in a week and I don't think Frank has the capacity to turn this around.

Nick Page
180 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:22:54
Jim @177.

Agree and disagree with some of that (debate is key after all). Koeman first season finished 7th. Then he had Lukaku sold from under him and we signed Rooney as The Big Actor wet himself. Koeman had had an indifferent time manager-wise but he took Southampton to 7th and 6th. The failings of the board got Koeman sacked.

Silva had Gueye sold from under him. Then…. sacked. The management has been fucking diabolical at reinvesting transfer funds… because and purely because they don't know what they are doing… because they have no strategy or philosophy… because they are bad managers and directors. And that won't change.

So everything else just falls over and the club looks like a laughing stock. And all we've done since Kenwright brought in someone stupid enough to fund the trainset (and clearly get involved in other transfers) is chase our tail while our average league position has fallen.

Raymond Fox
181 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:26:22
Here we go again, it's the manger's fault! We should be sacking the players if that was possible.

We've sacked Belgium, England and Netherlands managers who couldn't get a tune out of our 'stars', add Silva who is doing okay with Fulham, thanks very much. Carlo didn't pull up any trees either. Anybody see a trend there?

I mean was it any great surprise we ended 0 again.

Without Calvert-Lewin up front we are totally toothless, without a couple more forwards, we are in dire trouble.

That's not to mention our midfield who are supposed to be the play makers, our trouble starts with them.

Ian Edwards
182 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:26:53
Not having these Ancelotti shouts. This was a man who just sat in Crosby and allowed his son to manage us to give him experience.

He lost in the Cup to the redshites youth team and other sides pitched up at Goodison every home game and turned us over. Remember a 16-year-old scored the winner for Sheffield Utd?

The best we had? Not fit to wipe Martinez's shoes at this club, and even Allardyce's.

Nick Page
183 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:28:53
I think Bill Clinton didn't say it but; “It's the management, stupid.”
David Pugh
184 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:29:55
Hahaha… fucking Allardyce – the man who's won, er, nothing!

Oh yeah, and Martinez, who's won, er, one FA Cup, whilst getting relegated in the same season.

Brendan McLaughlin
185 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:30:50
I don't completely agree with Andy Crooks but Martinez took over a good Everton team... he took us to a record points haul on the back of it.

But then he weaved his magic and abracadabra we're on a downward trajectory and no manager since has been able to arrest the slide.

Darren Hind
186 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:31:47
You're right, Brendan.

Calls for Carlo's removal didn't have a lot of support. I never wanted him because I believed he had only ever lived a silver-spoon existence. Most disagreed.

A few turned against Carlo after Christmas when he couldn't buy a win, but support for him generally stayed solid to the end. Still is, from what I can gather.

He's gone now so it no longer matters. From what I can see at the moment, most Evertonians don't know which way to turn right now.

I've latched on to David's post @147. He seems to be the only one with genuine hope.

Shane Corcoran
187 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:32:17
I’ve been told by someone who knows someone who the first someone says the second knows his stuff, that Martinez will be after the World Cup.
Andy Crooks
188 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:32:35
Ian and Jim,

Of course that post wasn't literal. I've had a good think and, off the top of my head, I've come up with a couple worse.

Relegation Roberto was sacked because he was going to do a Wigan on us. Get us relegated and fuck off. I have, what I willingly accept is irrational, total contempt for the babbling fraudster.

Anyway, never go back. I really haven't the first clue what the answer is, though. Normally in a crisis, one hopes that knowledgeable wise heads will have a Plan B or C or the faintest notion what to do.

Can anyone recall in recent history a wise head at our club? It is utterly demoralising.

Not Roberto, though, oh God not him.

Barry Hesketh
189 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:36:31
Shane @187

Martinez will be what after the World Cup?

Anointed a saint by the Belgians due to winning the World Cup, or deported from Belgium due to going out of the World Cup at the group stage?

I know what you meant, appointed as Everton boss following the World Cup, I've heard similar but not sure if it will happen.

Kieran Kinsella
190 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:37:45
Sad that we are arguing about our recent managers with a focus on who was worse rather than better but it says it all really.
Stew Marsland
191 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:39:40
It's been said many times on here and I have to repeat it: nothing will change until Kenwright leaves.

Our decline coincides with his tenure, the man is a charlatan who accepts mediocrity as long as he can introduce himself to anyone as chairman of a Premier League club – not for much longer, methinks, unless he is ousted.

Barry Hesketh
192 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:40:34
I imagine that Gareth Southgate will be available in December - thoughts? :)

John Boswell
193 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:43:30
I am nonplussed; I can't reconcile the performance against Crystal Palace with what I have witnessed in the 4 subsequent matches, which have produced 1 goal, 1 point and an exit from a Cup competition.

Frank Lampard was a superb midfielder who brought goals but sadly he doesn't seem to be able to bring this out in the players that he is selecting.

As for the board of the football club, I recall that our new owner put 2 of his people on the board to represent his interests. I believe both of the board members have left the football club and not been replaced by the owner. This leaves Bill Kenwright to run the board with his appointees.

Meanwhile when was the last time our owner attended a fixture?

I wonder if the management have been told that there is no money for a striker in January unless we can sell first? A real downer for the weekend. COYB

Daniel A Johnson
194 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:45:09
For all Lampard's well-spoken words before and after,r no matter what, you always feel he's out of his depth come match day.

Has he now been found out?

Darren Hind
195 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:46:38
I hate to say this, but some of the people being dismissed here wouldn't touch us with a bargepole.

The EFC job will be largely viewed as a poison chalice.

Frank has aged visibly. He's only 44 but he looks like some of the lads who used to be in our class.

Fran Mitchell
196 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:49:26
Moyes until the end of the season, then Potter when he gets the sack in the summer.
Barry Hesketh
197 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:49:44
Telephone call between the owner and chairman following Everton's victory over Palace a few weeks ago:

Moshiri: "Bill, what's going on, I thought you had things under control? Three effin nil against Vierra's men, it was bad enough coming back from two-nil last season but now Frank's got the fans onside again and I'll have to find the money for more incomings as well as trying to fund the stadium."

Bill: "I'm sorry, I just didn't see that result coming, I honestly thought it was an away banker but, for some reason, Palace were crap and Everton created loads of chances. I'll see what I can do at Craven Cottage, at Goodison against Leicester and for both games at the Vitallity."

Moshiri's text to Bill earlier this evening "Well done, Bill, I never doubted your loyalty to me, I'm looking forward to Christmas now – all the best!"

Sam Hoare
198 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:50:34
Grim times.

I was castigated by a few on here last week by pointing out some statistics that suggested we were probably due a hiding. To be honest, I didn't expect it to come from Bournemouth.

I really want this club to have some stability. I also like Frank Lampard. But despite both those things, I would not be averse to a change. We are simply not improving. His win rate is similar to Benitez's and whatever he is trying to implement is not working.

As if our failure is not bad enough,it is galling in the extreme to have Newcastle showing us how achievable progress is when things are done smartly and with a clear plan and the right people.

The decision made by those at the top of this club over the last 5 or 6 years are hard to fathom and even more difficult to swallow.

Not sure what to hope for at this point. Maybe Lampard can turn it around (I'm not convinced) or maybe Martinez can bring back attacking football and exciting young players. It's a sad indictment when for once I have to protect my state of mind by agreeing with my wife's familiar post-loss platitude, "It's only a game".

Brendan McLaughlin
199 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:54:38
Barry #197

Surely it would be:

"Don't worry, Mosh... I've just seen Frank's team for the Carabao Cup tie away to Bournemouth"

Matt Henderson
200 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:55:41
Our owner is absent and clueless, we have a 3 person board made up of one 77-year-old with a history of failure, one CEO with no demonstrable experience of ever running a football club or an organisation of this size, and a former player with no experience running a club.

Basically our Board, who make every key decision at the club, is League One quality and they are gradually taking the club down to that level.

Andy Meighan
201 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:55:55
Bill Gall 154.

What a pathetic comment. Going on about people swearing, so what. We are totally frustrated what do you expect?

As for your Tuchel comment, do me a favour. He wouldn't touch us, he knocked Villa back so why do you think he'd touch this shite. He's a gobshite anyway.

One man for me and one only. Thomas Frank, end of.

Joe McMahon
202 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:56:28
I really don't know what happens next. None of any realistic contenders are going to change much.

But certainly Sean Dyche was taking Burnley down and the football was low scoring and awful, and Moyes - please no, even though it looks like he will be a free soon (again). Everton old boys, again please no to Ferguson (no-one's approached him), and Unsworth certainy not. His Oldham team is currenly near the foot of the conference. Grimm isn't it.

After many decades of this club, I'm slowly going off Everton and top-flight football in general. Let's face it, Everton will never dine at the top table again (we needed Kings Dock all those years ago), and the game's just too corrupt with bias and millionaire players who just don't care.

One thing I'm sure of, though, the slow demise over the years is down to one man.

Derek Taylor
203 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:56:28
I hear tonight that, in the permanent absence of Moshiri – as he searches worldwide for a buyer – Kenwright (the only non-executive director) has over-arching responsibility for all major football matters. And that will obviously include managerial dismissals and appointments!

Word is that any decision on Frank Lampard is likely to depend on whether Moyes gets the push from West Ham. If he remains at London Stadium, so will Frank remain here.

But one sign that our Chairman has a chance to re-sign the man he reveres as 'our last successful manager' and Lampard is a gonner!

Brendan McLaughlin
204 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:58:46
Sam #198,

I remember you and one or two others recently making that point on the defence.

Worrying times.

Tony Williams
205 Posted 12/11/2022 at 19:59:26
I am at a loss.

We are in a mess and have been for at least 5 years. We got away with it by the skin of our teeth last season, and all these wonderful managers haven't been able to rectify it.

What next?

Tony Everan
206 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:02:21
To get a balanced view, statisticians take the best and the worst results out, then look at the trends of the middle. There are always aberrations good and bad.

It's fair to say that we are not progressing at all under Frank. Are we any better than a year ago? We are unwatchable. I too like him and was praying for some stability. But no matter what, the club comes first.

The question is: Will Frank turn this around or will someone else have a better chance at doing that? It all depends on who the alternative is.

Christy Ring
207 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:11:54
Today, we looked a total shambles. Even Lampard's changes were suspect, we're totally toothless up front and our widemen offer nothing in attack or even helping back.

I would take Martinez back if he could guarantee Lukaku was also coming with him. But seriously we're lucky there's no football until Boxing Day, even if Calvert-Lewin is back.

A target man, winger and midfielder essential in January.

Nick Page
208 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:15:41
“As if our failure is not bad enough, it is galling in the extreme to have Newcastle showing us how achievable progress is when things are done smartly and with a clear plan and the right people.”

Absolutely correct, Mr Sam Hoare.

If anyone follows the markets and crypto then you will have seen FTX fall apart this week. Has a board run by a couple of brothers, one of whom, at least has been telling porkies, it seems.

the ESG rating agencies and other such in the know sycophants gave them a pass. Only for a load of investors to lose everything, because they bought into the bullshit.

Pat Kelly
209 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:15:49
Matt #200, spot on.

The only thing that will save the club is if Moshiri sells it and new owners appoint a professional Board and a new manager. Whether that happens before we go down remains to be seen.

But it needs to.

Paul Tran
210 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:17:00
We're a mid-table team, so I expect fluctuating performances and results.

We seem, almost deliberately, committed to buying players who don't score goals. And guess what, we can't buy one.

Today was one of those performances that suggest to me that the players have given up on Frank and his team.

Hope I'm wrong and things turn around. Today looked and felt a bit terminal.

Ian Edwards
211 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:18:46
Paul @210,.

We are a Bottom 4 team.

Paul Tran
212 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:22:31
Point taken, Ian.

I'd say it's a team that will get mid-table as soon as it's well-managed, by Frank or whoever.

Will Mabon
213 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:24:02
Nick - I know people (not me) bitten.

Very little left to be trusted.

Nick Page
214 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:29:44
Paul Tran.

We were a mid-table team. Before that, we were a Top 6 or Top 7 team. Now we're a Bottom 4 team. Managed decline. Kenwright ethos – no style or substance. No clue.

Poor managers in every department. Failing enterprise. They won't agree because they're selfish, intransigent bastards but the fans need to get together and fight tooth and nail to remove them before it's too late.

They are not responsible custodians of our football club. Let's take it back.

Brendan McLaughlin
215 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:29:57
Paul #212,

It's "whoever" then... surely?

Joe Digney
216 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:35:12
Joe @ 202 couldn’t agree more.
Brian Hennessy
217 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:35:32
So Frank says Gordon has been playing with a broken hand. Wonder if he did it during his boxing sessions that he is reportedly fond of?

Dale Rose
218 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:35:54
We had a goal machine called Lukaku; we sold him and didn't replace him.

We had a grafter called Richarlison; we sold him and didn't replace him.

It's a bit like buying a remote control and forgetting about the telly.

Bill Gall
219 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:38:15
Andy Meighan @201,

For a start, swearing does not bother me one little bit, I worked in underground mining for 25 years and not many people say please and thank you.

I just expressed that, over the years, swearing has become more of the norm in conversation and gets more ruthless at a football match and it was a shame that a supporter had to take his kid out because of it.

I only mentioned Tuchel because you don't get someone unless you want him and you ask him.

Just because he turned one club down does not mean he doesn't want to join another, especially as it will only be for 6 months and then he will be fired with a hefty payment.

Tony Everan
220 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:41:50
I agree with that Paul T, we looked like Newcastle or Sunderland in the seasons they dropped down. Listless and bereft of any team organisation or tightness. Zero attacking threat. Coupled with the guarantee of leaking a goal. It's a potent mix that points to terminal decline.

We are very lucky there is a 7-week break; it gives us a chance to adjust, because we've entered a death spiral. One way or another, the club has to take stock and reset.

Paul Hewitt
221 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:42:48
Sack Frank if you want, it will not make any difference at all.

This club is rotten, the only way we will move forward is for Moshiri to sell and we get a new board.

Kunal Desai
222 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:43:19
Soul destroying. This club reduces me to tears whilst I have a 7 year old son only is only interested suppotting Arsenal. Why Everton. Why?
Brendan McLaughlin
223 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:46:32
If only Blue Bill had not forced the sale of Arteta all those years ago...

Arteta would be manager and we'd be battling Man City for the title.

Christy Ring
224 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:49:22
Dale #218,

Didn't Koeman tell him to go to a big club, sell him, buy 3 No 10s and that was the start of the crap?

Brendan McLaughlin
225 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:50:24
Kunal #222

Cos you live in London?

Will Mabon
226 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:50:26
Brendan - it's down the sofa.
Soren Moyer
227 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:51:31
Yes Ian #116. Bizarrely enough he actually did say that!

Here's the Link

Kieran Kinsella
229 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:52:32
On the bright side — our highest-paid player will be back from his holiday in France in 6 months. Be like a new signing.
Will Mabon
230 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:53:00
Christy, the big oaf publicly stated that Lukaku should go to a bigger club to achieve his ambitions.
Jay Harris
231 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:57:28
The problem as I see it is Frank is trying to get them playing controlled possession football but, with no options in the final third, we are caught on the ball or on the back foot.

We don't have the quality of squad and every year, as other teams improve more than us, we slide further down the rankings.

We were undone today by a couple of dogs in Solanke and Moore who would have done a much better job for us than Maupay or McNeil. So, for all we criticize previous managers. and DOFs, who the fuck authorized the purchase of these two who couldn't buy a goal between them even before they came to us???

Frank is a decent bloke who knows a lot about top-level football but we need a miracle worker and there aren't that many of them around. The last one left after less than 12 months because of the bullshit despite the fact he loved walking his dog on Crosby beach.

Phillip Warrington
232 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:58:45
Just reading one of Frank's post-match comments about how we were probably favourites to go down, and he agrees with Coady's comments. So as far as he and the board are concerned, because we are favourites to go down it's okay to fail.

This hyped-up bullshit manager and board should never represent Everton. There's only one way to fix this and it would be sacrilege to any Evertonian: don't attend matches until they realise it's more than about having one of the best stadiums.

Anthony Dove
233 Posted 12/11/2022 at 20:58:45
Dreadful stuff... but we really need to give Frank some time.
We can't go on sacking managers at the drop of a hat. Hasn't worked so far, has it?

The worst thing for me is that, every time a manager comes
under the cosh, there are still apparently people out there
who think Moyes is the saviour. You get what you deserve

Paul Hewitt
234 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:00:52
Kunal @222.

You should be happy your son supports Arsenal. You don't want him suffering the same as you.

Bernie Quinn
236 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:02:07
Never thought it would happen but, after 76 years as a supporter, I am ashamed of the club. Ashamed of the Team, the fans who were racist, the management numpties, the owner, and the club itself. We are a disgrace to the great name of Everton and to Football.

Though I will always be an Evertonian, I cannot follow our (mis)fortunes any longer, until there has been clean-out of the responsible idiots who don't give a damn.

I will still read ToffeeWeb but it is a sad farewell to all my friends – especially Christine and Danny. God Bless.

Kunal Desai
237 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:04:53
Yes, my son supports Arsenal. Seen enough of Everton – they won't achieve anything of note. Whilst his father suffers. Nothing since 1995.
Will Mabon
238 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:06:52
Bernie, if you're still going to read, you may as well write.

We will need all the help we can get, the way it's going...

This said, I know how you feel.

Iakovos Iasonidis
239 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:12:21

I feel you, mate!

I have an 8-yea -old son and almost every week he mocks me! He says "Dad, don't you want to be happy? Why do you support Everton??"

Mark Ryan
240 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:13:53
If Frank's survives this, he has to learn that, when the FA Cup game comes around, he cannot play Holgate, Keane, Davies and Rondon and come out and say "They have to show me what they can do yadda yadda".

Play your strongest team, Frank, for fuck's sake!

Brendan McLaughlin
241 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:16:34
Bernie #236,

No real evidence that the fans were racist... but hey ho, just go with the narrative that suits?

David Peate
242 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:20:44
Tony (160),

My first match that I can recall was against Blackpool in 1943. I have been told that I had attended a match against Man Utd but I cannot bring this to mind. This was the first time that I saw Tommy Lawton and I think that he was one of the scorers.

Tony Abrahams
243 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:22:16
Brendan @142,

Surely you already know that genuine liabilities stay at Everton for years, mate. They get to make a fortune from selling a club, they have never put a penny into, and even get to remain as Chairman in spite of the longest barren spell in the clubs history.

Get rid of the manager by all means, but please get rid of the fraud who told us we've had some good times... Please.

David Pugh
244 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:23:33
Bernie, there was no racist comments, just someone calling Iwobi a useless wanker, unless that can be classed as racist.

Besides, had there been any racist comment, then whoever it was would surely have been arrested, because there were plenty of stewards and police right in front of where the comments came from, and they would surely have heard it.

Matt Henderson
246 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:23:39
We are in a constant state of fire fighting because the morons in charge have no idea how to do any long term planning (you don’t run into FFP issues if you have a forward looking plan!). Panic buying 5 games into the season (like we can afford to write off 15 points) is another result of this.

It is such a long road back for us. We’ve still got a load of deadwood that might come back post unsuccessful loan periods and the screw ups of the past will haunt us for some time and are likely to reoccur unless we make changes. The scary thing is we probably aren’t at rock bottom yet because the clowns in charge will continue screwing up whilst we leave them in charge

Paul Hewitt
247 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:29:27
I tried to get my son to support Everton, he wasn't interested. Thank god for that.
Andrea Jacobs
248 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:33:31
Absolutely no one on here is demanding instant success, we just do not want to be relegated and playing in an embarrassingly brand new stadium in The Championship.

It's true that we have to stick with a manager at some point and stop twisting into oblivion, however, Frank Lampard is not the man to stick with, he needs to be removed now, he's going to take us down.

And yes, Kenwright should be murdered in front of his family an all that jazz blah blah blah, he's the most demonic ‘human' being who has ever lived etc.

Regime change/culture change is all necessary, but right now it's the manager who is responsible. Maupay and McNeill are his signings, this is his fault right now, he's picking the teams, he's not reacting to the way the games are going, he's not experienced enough to do this extremely tough job that he's got on his hands.

Yes, some players seem to have bad attitudes or standards and the job is a mammoth one, but that's exactly why we need a far better and more experienced manager. Doesn't have to be a World beater, just someone who has worked for more than three and a bit seasons.

The Celtic Boss, Postecoglu.

My own choice would be Bielsa, we are the perfect 2-year project for him, to reset and rejuvenate the blue half of this vibrant city. We deserve so much better than this shite.

Brendan McLaughlin
249 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:34:12
Arteta's Arsenal 2 up...we could a been contenders

Kenwright... bastard.

Bernie Quinn
250 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:34:16
David at 245 - I accept your word Mate, and I never heard any on the TV, I was repeating what the Radio said on the air, so I presume there must have been comments?
John Raftery
251 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:36:57
We are in trouble, far more than I anticipated.

Frank is an effective communicator who succeeded in uniting the fan base last season. He said all the right things, people liked him and fans were galvanised to get behind the team. That played a vital part in the great escape.

Tactically, Frank seems tone-deaf. We seem to be trying to play as though we are a top team coached to keep possession, building from the back through midfield with top-class forwards able to apply a finish in the final third.

With a group of mostly average players, the whole approach is slow, tedious and suffocating. The players certainly don't appear to enjoy playing. While their enjoyment is the last thing to worry about, watching them today, it looked as though many of them were wondering what the point was of the style and approach they were using.

Frank and his team of coaches must now use the 7-week break to take stock and find a way of getting the best out of the group he has got. Persevering with the current approach will clearly not cut it.

Matt Henderson
252 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:37:17
We are in a constant state of fire-fighting because the morons in charge have no idea how to do any long-term planning (you don't run into FFP issues if you have a forward looking plan!). Panic buying 5 games into the season (like we can afford to write off 15 points) is another result of this.

It is such a long road back for us. We've still got a load of deadwood that might come back post unsuccessful loan periods and the screw-ups of the past will haunt us for some time and are likely to reoccur unless we make changes.

The scary thing is we probably aren't at rock bottom yet because the clowns in charge will continue screwing up whilst we leave them in charge

Tony Abrahams
253 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:42:58
I thought about us going for Biesla when I heard Bournemouth might be getting him today Andrea. A match made in heaven for us Evertonians, who want to see players run and run.

The more I think about Jerome Shields, the more I think he's got a man on the inside of our club. Jerome often tells us that the players don't like real hard work at Finch Farm, and something tells me, he's right.

Jeff Armstrong
254 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:48:19
John 251, good comments

Frank has this philosophy in his head, probably instigated at Man City. Problem is, it doesn't work with average players.

Fuck philosophy – we're in a relegation scrap... again. Have Rondon on the bench to come on and pump it long – that would be more effective than sideways and backwards for 90 minutes.

John Raftery
255 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:49:24
Mark (240),

I wish I could say what our strongest team is at present. Pickford, first choice keeper, was responsible for the opening goal. Even Coady and Tarkowski have looked ragged in the last couple of weeks. Apart from Iwobi and Mykolenko, the other positions are all up for grabs.

Nick Page
256 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:52:10
“You can say what you want about the second goal but it's nowhere near good enough from our point of view," Coady told Evertontv.

"I don't want to speak about the referee not doing his job or whatever, we speak about referees after every game so I'm not going to do that when we've just put out a performance like that against Bournemouth.”

The reason why players become worse players when they join Everton seems to bewilder some people. It's because there is no expectation from the fluffy management and professionals react this way. If you don't hold up and demand certain ideals, then standards drop quite quickly.

Let's start treating the cause and not the symptoms, Evertonians. Fan power. We demand Kenwright is removed and the club is sold.

Brendan McLaughlin
257 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:53:38
FFS Tony #253

Jerome Shields...fecking Santa Claus. To be fair to Jerome...he's never really claimed he had an inside track.

Jim Lloyd
258 Posted 12/11/2022 at 21:59:56
I think that, if we change our manager again, we will no longer be a joke… we'll be a long-running Comedy Classic! How many managers would it be since we brought Koeman in?

To bring another one in now would be an enormous risk. Would he make any difference at all to the group of players we've got?

Would he have any money to bring in a player who can score goals? Would he bring in a player who would create chances for the goalscorer? Or would be remotely as good as Maddison is at playing a class midfield game? And at least one player who can cross a ball like Dave Thomas regularly did?

Is there any money available to buy any one of these players – providing they would come to this disaster zone of a club?

We need those players now! But do the Profit and Sustainability rules restrict us from affording even one?

In January, we may be able to swap, loan, or even sell one or two!! But we may not.

I think we should stay with the manager (we might have to anyway) and give him what support we can muster, and try again to avoid relegation.

I've been supporting our club for 60-odd years and, as I see it, not only are we in danger of relegation, we're at risk of going down even further.

My own view in a couple of points is that we should recall (if we can) Ellis Simms and give him and Tom Cannon many more first-team chances, and any other youngster who is good enough to be considered.

And, as hard as it will be, we should give our support to our team and our club.

The one exception I've got in giving my own support is to Kenwright. I think he's ruined our club and should be shown the door. And he could take our Chief Executive Officer with him (that's two!). But they're the ones who would be booted out of any organisation worth its name.

Everton have a glorious name in football and it's been dragged through the gutter by Kenwright for a quarter of a century!

Billy Bradshaw
259 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:00:50
Bernie Quinn, why repeat what you heard on the radio if you're not sure, why are you trying to cause trouble?
Richard Nelson
260 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:01:42
The agents of the recent signings all said the same thing: l

"Listen, lads, there's this dopey Premier League club out there that wants to sign you, they'll give you this massive 5-year contract because they are desperate... and here's the thing: there's no pressure, you do not have to perform or anything like that... all you have to do is turn up for training on time. That's it, you up for it...?"

Bernie Quinn
261 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:23:06
Billy Bradshaw at 259. All I said was it was reported on Radio – never even mentioned today's game. I am not looking to cause trouble – perhaps you are?

I have heard racist remarks in many games the Toffees have been involved in and there is no call for them – which is why I mentioned it in my post. It is remarks like yours that make me want to stop posting.

Andy Meighan
262 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:25:14
Derek 203.

And where exactly has that word come from?

Yes, I'm totally sure Kenwright would have his mate back. But can you give us some evidence of that comment. Because, really it's not going to happen, is it? Martinez, yes... but Moyes, no.

Ian Riley
263 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:29:05
What if Frank stays?

Statistically we are going down under Frank. Relegation, current debt, salaries, and new stadium in progress is a scary prospect.

This squad would struggle in The Championship. Relegation must be avoided and if Sam Allardyce, David Moyes, or Manuel Pellegrino is appointed, then fine. Experience is a must now to make these players more accountable.

The squad is mid-table at best. Staying in the Premier League is our number one priority. I couldn't care less the style of play – just staying in the league. Once the stadium is built with new owners, then review the current situation.

Sadly Frank has not the experience to handle a cub in decline. Set up to fail but the lack of fight from his players this week shows change is needed.

Our expectations, from Top 6, is now maintaining our Premier League status. It is essential – or Premier League football may not return for many years.

Andy Meighan
264 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:31:58
Listen, Bernie @261,

I know Billy personally and have done for many years. He's travelled the length and breadth of this country and abroad following this club. If he says there were no racist remarks – there were no racist remarks.

Too many people ready to point fingers when there's no pointing to be done at times, there really isn't.

Roman Sidey
265 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:33:39
I'm not and haven't ever been pro-Lampard, but neither was I anti-Lampard. I do think though that, now he is the manager, he should stay there until at least the end of this season – solely for a little stability. The sacking carousel hasn't done anything good for the club so far.

We all know that the DNA fabric of the club is about as bad as it could be. For pretty much every manager since Moyes, the players – regardless of who they are – lack urgency when behind late in a match.

Martinez had a little bit of late success but, even during his reign and every manager's since, at 0-2 down, the players seem to be protecting the deficit rather than playing like they need to score. Mind-boggling and infuriating stuff that reeks of a horrible club culture.

Every few months, it's mentioned but nothing ever eventuates – why don't local fans organise some sort of protest to rid the club of Kenwright? It's clear to anyone with eyes that he has been the main problem for his entire tenure.

Peter Mills
266 Posted 12/11/2022 at 22:47:43
John #251, as usual, that's a thoughtful post.

I watched 3 games today. The first was the 6-year-olds. 5-1 down half-way through the match, the coach spoke calmly with them all, gave them a few messages, told them to keep enjoying themselves, they won the 2nd half of the game 1-0.

The 8-year-olds played against a very combative (in a good way) team, but played some nice passing football to go into a 2-goal lead. However, when they got a free-kick 35 yards out, the manager shouted for the goalie, who can hit the ball, to step forward, and he duly hit it into the top corner.

My point? Think about the simple things about football. If something isn't working, change it. If something is working, keep doing it but also do something different. Try hard. Enjoy yourself. Fight.

I didn't see much of that spirit, or management, in the 3rd game I watched.

Andy Crooks
268 Posted 12/11/2022 at 23:26:42
I have a rough idea where the magnificent Blues who travelled to Bournemouth are right now. Struggling home.

I wonder what the frauds who shamed the shirt today are doing? No doubt hanging their heads in shame, considering refunding the Blues who travelled, reliving their abject performance, resolving to work harder, being too upset to sleep.

Or, unlikely as it may seem, enjoying their evening without the slightest thought that they are a pack of useless cunts.

Rob Halligan
269 Posted 12/11/2022 at 23:41:07
Another disastrous match which is probably our longest away journey. Four days after another disastrous match, which was also our longest away journey.

So, having travelled the best part of 1,100 miles, spent £92, (very generous of the club to give us our £15 refund for the cup game), spent over 20 hours on a coach on two combined journeys, watched us outplayed in both games, conceding seven goals in the process, I'm still waiting for some sort of apology from someone within the club.

The fans have every right to react the way we did; after all, it's not as if we'd been to Man City twice in four days, a mere 120 miles for the two combined journeys, but Bournemouth... fucking Bournemouth.

Do the club not realise the time and money spent for just one game down there, never mind two, and to put in performances like that is just totally not acceptable.

I'm all for giving Frank time to turn things around, but jeez, he needs to get a striker or two in the January window.

I'm reading above of yet again some wanting a change of manager. Yeah, that's a great idea, what are we on, a 6- or 12-month cycle of wash, spin and repeat!! And I'm also reading of bringing Allardyce, Moyes or Martinez back… Jeez!!

Where's the apology, Kenwright?

Kenwright Out!!

Ray Smith
270 Posted 12/11/2022 at 23:45:38
Kenwright and his cronies out? Not going to happen.

Duncan Ferguson is not the answer; however, if there is such a person with Big Dunc's passion, together with Premier League experience, okay. However, IMO, unless that person is recognised and available, we stick with Frank.

He's inherited a crock of shite, he's had one window, and some of us are baying for his head... Why?

We are going nowhere other than down or narrowly avoiding relegation again!!!

After 58 years an Evertonian, through thick and thin, I've never felt so despondent, especially after 15 games. God help us!!!

Ray Smith
271 Posted 12/11/2022 at 23:52:55
Cannon to Fleetwood on loan!!!

A promising talent deserving of a run of games, so why loan him out? Beyond me... but what do I know!!!

Soren Moyer
272 Posted 12/11/2022 at 23:57:07
Not appointing a proper, experienced manager before the break, in my opinion, would be a huge mistake!

Bring back Allardyce to stop the rot or we are toast!

I think it was last month or so when he said he knew the footy we played under him was not exciting but he also said he would have changed it if he had time to install the right players if he wasn't sacked.

Ed Prytherch
273 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:08:05
Cannon should be starting for us, at least as long as Dom is out. He is in a class above Maupay.
Brian Wilkinson
274 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:28:10
I can see us going on a run now and not losing another Premier League game until after Xmas; cheer up, folks.

It's the hope that kills you; other than that, I haven't the foggiest idea of a solution.

We waited until the transfer window closed and sadly the Enough is Enough group campaign lost backing of a protest at Goodison, on a non-matchday. I think we need to come up with something, before the season recommences; we simply cannot allow this to go on.

Simon Dalzell
275 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:29:24
I've never in 58 years felt like I do now.

I struggled to get a stream – and when I did, we were 2 down. We're unwatchable, diabolical, etc. A total waste of time.

Let's use this break to our advantage. Nice man... shite manager.

Don Alexander
276 Posted 12/11/2022 at 00:32:15
If there's anything more repetitive on ToffeeWeb than me going on about Kenwright, and now Moshiri, it's the now years-long beratings of managers', coaches' and players' performances by well-meaning Toffees after yet more hugely inadequate, embarrassing hammerings by bog-standard teams on a monthly or weekly basis.

And whilst we all tap our keyboards, season after season after witnessing the same appalling ineptitude on the pitch, we have the same bloke boasting of his and our 'good times' under his pretty much total 30-year control when all of these managers, coaches and players were signed on, often on mega-contracts that the recipients (and me) could hardly believe.

Professional Premier League football clubs who aspire to be top-half contenders, minimum, appoint experts off the pitch to get them there and remain there.

They don't have at their heart some antiquated tosser(s) whose idea of major surgery to heal a failing club is to unleash a series of leeches on the problem in the blind hope that they'll deliver better cures than the many more successful clubs achieve with professionalism.

Still, what do I know? Maybe the top leech who's sucked the blood out of the club to his own benefit alone over 30 years is the answer to our continual problems.

Yeah, right!

Will Mabon
277 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:36:01
The Cannon loan has not actually happened, it has been discussed.

It would take some front to begin that right now.

Or have I missed something?

Simon Dalzell
278 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:39:05
Reassuring to see Lampard 1/2 for the sack race.

He has to go. Clueless.

P Ron Wells
279 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:41:34
Don't talk to me about adjusting in the 7-week break we have. You can't adjust something that's broken. There will be no improvement when the restart comes because it takes a lot longer to undo 30 years of bad culture and defeatism. And after that to rebuild.

We have known for a long time that things won't change with Kenwright there, but who is going to remove the trainset from his malingering grasp?

Rob Halligan
280 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:48:32
Having watched MotD, I didn't realise at the time how bad that first goal was by Pickford. God knows what was going through his mind as he parried the ball out?

Also, for the second goal, play should have been well stopped for the head injury sustained by Tarkowski. It's not as if they scored within a millisecond of the clash of heads, but a good few seconds before the ball went in.

Pawson should have stopped play immediately, and he has certainly got it in for us. He was the one who sent Jagielka off at Wolves a few years back (it was Richarlison's debut for us), which wasn't a sending off, by the way, then let wolves take the free kick a good few yards further forward.

One poor referee out of several poor referees in this league. No doubt there are other incidents which he has given against us which were just bollocks.

Finally, I have to give credit to Pickford, for admitting at the end “It was my fault” as he pointed to himself, when the fans were having a go. Yes, it was a bad error for him to make, but these last 2 years, also at the last World Cup, he has been outstanding for both club and country, so a little bit of leeway should be given to him.

Every player, goalkeeper or outfield player makes mistakes; it's just unfortunate that, when a goalie makes a mistake, it usually leads to a goal. No doubt though, the media etc will now be calling for him to be replaced by Pope for the World Cup, because of that one error. Not a chance that will happen, as Pickford is by far the best English goalkeeper at the moment.

Brian Murray
281 Posted 13/11/2022 at 01:04:59

Repetitive or boring, or whatever words you want to hide that snake behind, he is the problem. Or at least the main one.

Brian Wilkinson
282 Posted 13/11/2022 at 01:10:16
Now we have a gap before our next league game, surely now is the time to rally as many different groups of Evertonian fan-based social-media people, from ToffeeWeb, Facebook, Twitter and the likes, to unite and organise some sort of media attention gathering, outside Goodison. Let our feelings be known that we start at the top: remove Kenwright as Chairman, and the second-rate inept board of yes-men.

If Moshiri aims to stay for now, replace those clowns by bringing professional people in, who know how to run a football club, who have higher aims than 'plucky little Everton', and not giving a rat's arse about going out of cups every season, as long as we finish out of the Bottom 3.

Have we really sunk that low, that avoiding relegation is deemed as success?

We have a few weeks now to try and come up with something. The last time I mentioned this, a few said, "What will it achieve?", "Waste of time", "It will not make a difference".

Well, the alternative is to sit back, do nothing, and accept it.

What are other fans' view about trying to unite a lot of the Everton fanbase, and marching down Goodison Road, banners and a media spokesperson from within our supporters, to deliver to the media and TV.

Derek Knox
283 Posted 13/11/2022 at 01:33:21
Brian and Brian, totally agree, let's do it.

As you are well aware, I have been at all the other protests.

Brian Wilkinson
284 Posted 13/11/2022 at 01:40:19
Nice one, Derek, we cannot sit back any longer, we need to try and at least do something, while we have a World Cup break.

It was never easy trying to do something about it on a matchday, unsettling the team, but we now have a window of opportunity to at least try something, by gathering at Goodison during the break.

Pete Clarke
285 Posted 13/11/2022 at 02:05:39
Nick @256,

That's the best end to a post ever but, unless action is taken, then we are going absolutely nowhere until that horrible bastard breathes his last breath.

There's a million reasons why we are so poor. Bringing back a bang an average Idrissa Gueye, selling Richarlison, signing Rondon, Maupay etc, yet expecting things to improve are just some examples of the piss-poor decisions we make on an almost daily basis at our club.

Talk of sacking Frank Lampard is not to be laughed at because it's results that matter and he's clearly close to the tipping point but, unless we supporters get off our keyboards and rally against this idiot owner and Kenwright, then things will remain the same.

We are going nowhere except downwards with these clowns. Sort the team out before the new stadium.

It's easy to get carried away and forget there are far more important things in life than this messed-up club we support but it is hard to ignore.

Moshiri and Kenwright out now!

Kieran Kinsella
286 Posted 13/11/2022 at 02:12:41
Brian & Derek,

I'm in America so can't picket the Liver Building but I'm always down for a revolution.

I think one of the issues to this point is we have disparate groups with their own specific ideas and dare I say egos at play. For example, the whole 27 Years Campaign seemed shrouded in mystery and was debated on ToffeeWeb until Paul the Esk outed himself as it were as a member.

What's needed is for someone to try and pull these groups together under a single shared aim (eg, Kenwright must go), which I think most people can agree on, as opposed to their own individual egotistical aims beyond that (eg being on the fan advisory board etc).

But as an analogy, if you look at World War 2, you had British working class, royals, Bolsheviks, Serbian nationalists, French resistance, Nepalese Gurkhas, Chinese patriots, Zionists, Secular Jews, Polish exiles, Aussies, Kiwis – even Scottish people – all coming together to defeat the common enemy, despite their own wider views.

But we need someone connected who can pull all these groups together. There are sympathetic journalists out there who'd give coverage to protests but there's also YouTube, TikTok etc where things can go viral and reach tens of thousands of people.

Let's be honest, non-Evertonians would happily share criticism of the club in the form of Kenwright since, from their perspective, it makes Everton look bad. So if you put something out on TikTok bashing Kenwright, the RS would happily share it. So let's use our enemies to help the cause.

I don't have local contacts on Merseyside as I haven't been home in 10 years but I do have a YouTube channel that gets 40,000 viewers a month. I would be delighted to be an anti-Kenwright propagandist but we need someone local to tie up the fanbase.

Tom Bowers
287 Posted 12/11/2022 at 02:22:39
When you look at the managers we have had over the last 10 years (some with bonafide credentials) you have to wonder what is wrong with the club that they cannot become competitive again.

The performances over the last three games have been shameful despite having no offense to speak of as an excuse.

Generally, compared to the opposition, overall they lack ideas and are second best in most areas of the field – even against Bournemouth ''reserves'', sad to say.

The immediate future looks even bleaker with the board doing nothing and spending too much time over the new stadium instead of the more pressing matter of the team quality.

We dodged a bullet last season but, on recent form, we are easy meat for anyone.

Steve Brown
288 Posted 13/11/2022 at 04:15:35
Reading the thread, it amazes me how balanced and sensible Evertonians are given the unrivalled shitshow over the last 6 years. We should have all turned to drink by now.

Like everyone else, I am bewildered about what we should do now. The hierarchy is dysfunctional, the club is amateurish and has no standards, countless managers come and fail, and the squad are cowardly, untalented pea-hearts.

Change will only start with the appointment of a professional board, as Liverpool did after Hicks and Gillett almost ruined them.

Short-term change? That has to come from the players, as they have confounded every manager hired to lead them.

Kieran Kinsella
289 Posted 13/11/2022 at 04:42:12
Steve Brown,

Welcome to the Hotel California. You can check in any time you want but you can't ever leave… even if Tom Davies plays.

Alan J Thompson
291 Posted 13/11/2022 at 06:06:46
Perhaps our owner, whoever he might be, could invite Messrs Lampard and Ancelotti, who do know each other, to spend a few days sailing in Monaco, watching the WC (no, not our first XI, the World Cup) and discussing just what set-up they might best expect for our current playing staff to get some sort of points-winning performances.

After all, it could be argued that they both might owe us something and have recently stated that they are Evertonians. We've tried new managers almost ad infinitum so either replace those who appointed them or try something outside the square.

Tony Everan
292 Posted 13/11/2022 at 06:36:56
I woke up at 4am restless, thinking about the current disturbing situation of our great club. It's a big task now to turn this season around and to maintain our top-flight status after a series of deteriorating performances.

Ultimately, the club needs to be sold to an owner who is more connected and passionate about the quality of the day-to-day running of the club. First job is to install a board of directors who are professionals and fit for purpose. Would any sane organisation still have the same chairman after 28 years of regression and failure?

It is bewildering that Mr Kenwright is still at the club, he embodies our perennial sub-mediocrity. It's got to the stage where most of us would accept and welcome sub-mediocrity this season. I'd snap your hand off for a 16th finishing position right now. A shocking statement.

Also, I'd like to ask the club about goals.

How do they think football matches are won? I'll tell them a little-known secret. It's the ability score a goal, at least one, quite often sometimes two or three.

It's a dereliction of duty to not have any proven goal-scorer in the team. Lukaku was never replaced. Sold for £75M without a proper quality replacement. Spellbinding incompetence. Richarlison sold, his goals have not been replaced. All chips then bet on Calvert-Lewin's fitness holding up for our last and only possible supply of goals.

This bet was taken on the backdrop of him already being out of action and largely injured for a year.

Whilst there is no goals in the side or adequate quality up front, the rest of the team is going to be put under constant pressure. There are no outlets and no respite.

This lack of planning for goals in the team now has us snookered behind the black ball. Little money, declining desirability as a destination, our saleable assets depreciating.

Regardless, something must be done, this forward line won't suddenly turn productive and no goals means relegation is a certainty. Whether it's Frank Lampard or someone else, they'll have the same problem.

I've supported Frank non-stop since his arrival but the last four games have been deeply concerning. It's become a worsening situation: no ideas, zero attacking threat, and leaking goals – a death spiral.

Is sacking him the answer? Nobody knows for sure, because that would depend upon who you're replacing him with and the forwards he could bring with him.

If our board go down that route, just get it done, please no ridiculous, protracted series of multiple interviews.

Sound the man you want out and get him in.

Danny O’Neill
293 Posted 13/11/2022 at 06:57:41
I'm not going to dissect that too much. It's been done in the report and the many comments. Any positive from that? We managed to stay outside the Bottom 3 before the World Cup… Just. And not by our own doing or attempts.

Early train, which had a good smattering of blues aboard. One particularly entertaining group from Wigan who were absolutely leathered before we got anywhere near Bournemouth. I hope that helped them through what they were about to endure. Maybe even slept through it. I got home at a decent 10:30 pm.

I got there in good time and headed to one of the pubs where many Evertonians were congregating; in fact it was 100% full of Everton supporters. It was lively and in good spirits, considering many were on a repeat trip and had been there for Tuesday night's shit show. Couldn't happen again, right?

Well. It only did.

I still don't know why Pickford decided to pat that one out for the first. I haven't watched it back and probably won't, but it looked a straight-forward take for me. Did we have a shout that the game should have been stopped for the second? Again, I don't know. I can't even remember the 3rd to be honest.

I'm not making excuses – you can't for that – but the official was often infuriating and someone tell me different, but we certainly didn't get a lot of obvious decisions.

Someone asked me my prediction before the game. I opined that Bournemouth can score but can't defend (worst goal difference by far outside the current Bottom 3). Everton can defend but can't score. So I opted for a diplomatic 1 - 1 prediction. Good job I don't gamble or predict scores often. Never listen to me on football predictions.

But the simple matter is that, yet again, we didn't show up and we didn't perform. The midfield toiled, the defence were put under pressure as much from our own team as the opposition. Whatever we do, the glaringly obvious is that we have no outlet. We play sideways and backwards like we are Manchester City waiting for the killer punch. But we don't have one.

On Iwobi, I believe it was raw emotion on both counts. It wasn't quite on Brentford or Norwich scale of last season when it was en masse, but there was a group who went to the front who were understandably agitated and annoyed and let the players and manager know. Ironically, one of only two players who came out of that with any credit for effort and actually trying. Again.

Change? I wasn't particularly confident in the Lampard appointment from the start. I wasn't sure and remain unsure. But change of manager again also fills me with dread. I know where I want change. And if we, the loyal fan base, want this, then as mentioned by Kieran, Brian and others, it needs to be as unified and vocal as we were behind the team last season. Otherwise, another lamb will be led to the slaughter enabling the fat cats in the Main Stand to bring in another poor soul to preserve their existence and so-called legacy.

I hope the Mykolenko injury isn't serious. I suppose he and we now have time to recover. I don't know if I'll spend that time recovering my enthusiasm or stewing. I hope those players are stewing and feeling the hurt I feel right now.

Back on Boxing Day, and, if I can sort something out, New Year's Eve at the Etihad.

I wish I could hate them. I wish I could remotely dislike them slightly. I can't even bring myself to do that. They don't deserve me or the countless dedicated souls at the match or from home around the globe. But they have me, you and us. How about giving something back?

Apologies. Feeling raw, yet again. I'm off to Whitehall for Remembrance today. Poignant day in the calendar, as always. Lest we forget.

Darren Hind
294 Posted 13/11/2022 at 07:37:09
Reading this thread has been a miserable start to Sunday morning. A stark reminder of what we witnessed yesterday – been here a few times…

A few thoughts:

I think anybody taking their kids out of the match because of swearing couldn't possibly have ever picked them up from school.

I think Kunai and Lakovos both have sons who are smarter than they are – that's a good thing, guys. Many Evertonians' kids have followed their lead. Now they sit at home fearing that dreaded knock from social services…

After being beaten and comprehensively out-played in yet another Premier League game, I think those pointing the finger at fringe players remind me of the people who scream at firemen to soak the garden gate while their house is burning down.

I also wonder why we always seem to sign decent centre-halves yet somehow contrive to turn them into fuck-witted partnerships within a couple of months. I feel an article coming on for that one.

Lastly, not so long ago, I think I would have dismissed David @147 as an optimistic daydreamer. Now – the morning after the night before – I'm still clinging to his every word.

Tony Hill
295 Posted 13/11/2022 at 08:10:01
David @242,

Very impressive, to have seen Tommy Lawton (we have a couple more on here) and to have seen us through so much. I missed Lawton by 7 years and am very tired of the club so, as Darren says, you're a beacon.

David Pugh
296 Posted 13/11/2022 at 08:19:07
Brian 282 and Derek 283. Count me in for any protest in the next few weeks to get that leech Kenwright off the board, and out of the club altogether. The man should be in a nursing home with his slippers and pipe, not the chairman of a major premier league football club. I have a mate who thinks kenwright is our saviour and has no blame attached whatsoever so our current situation. Unbelievable!!
Gary Johnson
297 Posted 13/11/2022 at 08:38:43
Loads of different players, loads of different managers, 3 x DOF’s……and we are still utterly shite. So, what’s the denominator?

Easy to blame “The Board” but they’ve provided the money for hundreds of millions of players and the new stadium. They’ve acted when managers under perform in the past. So, what exactly is their failing (at least post moshiri anyway)?

For me, it’s negativity….and it runs through the whole club.

Allardyce, Benitez and Lampard (and arguably Koeman) have all been extremely negative managers. Lampard spent the whole summer (supposedly) upgrading defence and midfield and neglecting the attack to such an extent that we played the first 6 games with no recognised striker.

He’s brought through no youth whatsoever, preferring to stick with “favourites” like Gray, and using the Keanes/Davies/Rondons long before he’ll give the Welsh/Warrington/Simms any run at all.

We’ve been negative and risk adverse in recruitment too, buying “proven, but unspectacular” players like Tarkowski, Maupay, McNeil etc. (historically could add another 30 players to this bit) whilst not looking to take risks on potential rather than known talent (With a few exceptions like Patterson and Garner of course).

There’s been blips to the negativity. Martinez wanted to play football, but ultimately undid himself with going to his own “mediocre knowns” (Kone, Alcarez, Robles, Cleverly etc.) and Steve Walsh tried to get some exciting youth in…….but this positivity really is rare. The brief real hope of the James and Carlo era is too small and fleeting to mention.

Let’s be honest, negativity runs through us fans too. Atmosphere against United and Leicester this year has been around the worst I’ve seen it at Goodison for years. Yes, the blue smoke end to last season was spectacular, but it hasn’t been sustained for even the first quarter of this year. Albeit, got to give all credit to our away mob who do us proud.

Anyway, I can waffle all morning, but until we lift the doom and gloom (stadium too far away still to do it alone) and take a positive gamble I can’t see anything other than more misery moving forward.

So, no to continuing with Lampard, no to bringing back Moyes, no to the idiotic calls for Fat Sam…….I want an exciting manager who’s going to try and win games. Ideally one who’ll build with the likes of Branthwaite, Patterson, Garner, Warrington, Mills, Gordon etc.

Would like a Gallardo - unknown, untried, and therefore the very opposite of negative. Or go pinch Kompany, Yaya Toure, Dahl Thompson. Would settle for Bobby Brownshoes back too. Think I’d rather we go down losing games 4-3 than losing 7-1 on aggregate to the mighty Bournmouth. Rooney could work too. Just do something positive and change the DNA ffs.

Jim Lloyd
298 Posted 13/11/2022 at 08:52:37
I wrote last night about defending and supporting our manager and our team as best we can, when in my heart I felt like saying "enough!"

Sixty odd years supporting this club, many supporting Everton for longer and many supporting them away as well as the home matches: many too, supporting them who can only go the match now and then because of the distance they would need to travel, and many who just cant get to Goodison at all.

All True blues including those who think Kenwright is doing a good job!

Well, I think Kenwright has just about killed our club. If there's any way of saving one of the original teams in the football league,
Then Kenwright Has To Go!

Over Quarter of a Century of this man at the helm, has seen us go from a well respected club,
to a Comedy Series to the rest of football and a Tragedy to us. Losing us a chane of a world class site at the Kings Dock, because he knew his partner who would lend us the money, would chase him as chairman. How many offers to buy into the club, I don't know, but I have it from someone I respect, that he sent the current owner of Man City on his way, when he was interested in buying the club...I wonder why!

Derek, Brian W, Brian, Danny, I will join you for any protest that Evertonians can muster.

Bobby Mallon
299 Posted 13/11/2022 at 08:53:12
Darren hind 294:. I was the one who took my kid out yesterday. I have heard swearing all my life, you don’t get brought up in huyton and not know swearing.
But yesterday it was totally different, it was pure anger, vented at the players and our own fans, it was menacing. Two divvies at the front even started having a go at a bloke with a walking stick when he asked them to sit down. If you are going to be that mad and hateful to your own players and fans then I think you need to stay home and don’t go, because I think one day someone is going to get hurt. I understand people feeling hurt by the team and let down. I felt the same watching Pickford slap the ball to them. Watching Onana, Iwobi and Gueye not really knowing where to to play. But I didn’t for one minute shout and swear at the players in an attacking way.
Jim Lloyd
300 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:00:23
Bobby, you're right. Swearing is part of football at the match. Especially when frustration builds up. But it sounds like there some at the match yesterday who went way past swearing. It sounded like they were looking for trouble and an excuse to kick off.
That could have caused danger to anyone in the vicinity. Totally understand your view and sympathise with the situation you were put in by some supporters.
Dave Abrahams
301 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:01:01
I’ve read most of these posts, watched the game, saw how poor we performed, each time the camera’s showed the faces of the Everton fans it told me how really poor we were.

Before the game when I saw the team, realised Frank didn’t have much to select from but thought “ Yes come on Frank,surprise us with a different formula, plan, ideas,plan or system, he didn’t, so that style suffered what we knew it would,once the game was ten minutes old.

If Lampard is still here on Boxing Day I hope he has brought something different for the team to elaborate on: Otherwise we are fucked.

Ray Jacques
302 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:01:44
I don't see survival this year. We had a massive let off last year but this season is following the same pattern. Only two differences are the manager is generally liked by the fans and not despised despite results being no better and this season there isn't a team cast adrift and certainties to go down as Norwich were. Hence the odds on our survival reduce.
Wolves will turn us over on Boxing Day, they have a new manager, Costa back from suspension, Coady can't play, boxing day football, it's aligned in the stars.
Dyche will be in by the end of January to 'save us'

I despair.

Dwayne Perkins
303 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:02:50
A few months ago we voted some fans onto the board to represent us, who are they and how do we contact them? Can we instagate a meeting like we use to in the Blue Union days?

Our club is being destroyed from the inside and we're sitting on our hands whilst Rome burns. Is there a way we can at least try to organise a protests at Goodison Park before it's too late?

Bullshit Billy and his investor have brought this club to its knees. What can we do to show they need to be forced to sell and let go of the trainset for the good of Everton Fc.

We can no longer keep ampling on and hoping things change. We need to force these out and get new owners in who can change this club for the better. If the media is to be believed their are interested parties who want this club.

Enough is enough!!

Andy Meighan
304 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:03:05
I honestly thought that, after the great escape last season, Lampard would consolidate us this season. 13th or 14th would have well done me, and then move on from there with some astute signings.

But the failure to address the striker situation in the summer set the alarm bells ringing. If Frank doesn't address this at least at Finch Farm then he's toast.

A really likeable fella but at the moment he looks like he's out of his depth. Don Alexander at 276 summed this club up and I think that says it all. Maybe this World Cup has come at the right time after all.

Danny O’Neill
305 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:09:57
You always get them Bobby. The "you're shite Everton" bloke from the first whistle. Mark, avoid, ignore.

I get as frustrated as any fan. I'll greet them when they come over at the end when the deserve it, as do the vast majority of supporters. I went forward and shook hands with one of the coaches at the end of the Fulham away match as I thought the team dug in to get a well earned point against an in-form team at the time.

Yesterday as on Tuesday and other occasions, I stay to the end, even when the writing is long on the wall. Call me passive, but I just stand with my arms folded looking at their sheepish approach to us.

Brian Murray
306 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:16:13
Dwayne post 303. I’ve already said this but I’ll say again. A representative of the fans (Jaz ball I think his name is )was interviewed on sky the same day as a few hundred of us where getting soaked to the skin on the 27 protest march. He actually said he’s happy with the board. Don’t know if he was caught on his heels or caught off guard or is just mr happy to be part of something. Efin ridiculous thing to say. No wonder this group are welcomed by kenright
Steavey Buckley
307 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:16:25
One of the biggest reasons IMO why Everton are not functioning properly is the team formation, which is bewildering and confusing and leaves players stranded when the opposition go on the counter attack once possession is lost. The midfield is a 'no man's land' because nobody there is quite sure where and what they should be doing. When Everton played a traditional 4-4-2 formation, there was always 8 players behind the ball when the opposition were on the offensive, so there was cover from the 4 in midfield for the 4 players at the back. Similarly, when Everton broke away they could have an extra 2 players from the back joining the 4 players in midfield and having 2 players upfront meant there were 8 players on the attack. So having the right numbers in defence, midfield and attack is less of a problem when there is a 4-4-2 formation than the bewildering Everton formations are employing at the moment.
Phil Lewis
308 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:30:47
Kenwright and Baxendale are the primary cancer that is the root cause which has prevented Everton Football Club from progressing for many years. Their collective insidious disease has tentacles in every corner of Goodison. Their intentions are totally self motivated.

Until both are removed from our once great club, the terminal decline will continue.

Successive managers and numerous unsuccessful playing and coaching staff investment have failed, because the root cause of our problem has never been addressed. The culprits rode the storm with Premiership survival. Tragically it would seem that only relegation will remove them.

Nick Page
309 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:36:04
Brian 306, Dwayne 303. I have also made this point - that anyone who wants anything from the club, even to be able to go to the games without being blackballed in effect signs an NDA, real or otherwise. Look how passive the TV fan site is. They aren’t daft and can surely see what’s going on but they have to pay tribute to Godfather Bill otherwise they will get banned. Same as Sharp, Snodin, Griffiths etc. All sworn to silence. Kenwright shut down the AGM’s because of tricky questions. He made a complete fool of himself in-front of the Blue Union. So any so called fan engagement was doomed to failure from the start. He has a vice like grip on the club and it’s operations and behaves with impunity because he knows he can get away with it. And there is a large section of the support that is so fucking stupid they give the lying bastard a free pass, so when the shit hits the fan again they simply scapegoat the manager ad infinitum. Someone once said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Apply that to Kenwright and EFC and you have all your answers. Moyes saved Kenwright, not because we played great football but because the Big Actor didn’t have to do much whilst we remained passive. There was no expectation or desire to compete hence the knife to a gunfight comment from Moyes himself (who also knew). It was the perfect foil.
Danny O’Neill
310 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:44:02
I could well not be looking in the right places, but what output are we getting from the Fans Advisory Board?

Are they really conveying the messaging coming from the stands and the forums?

I genuinely don't know as I'm not seeing any reporting or feedback.

If someone can direct me, I'm happy to jump all over it.

Jim Lloyd
311 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:44:27
Brian M, Nick,
I agree totally, I hope blue Union were still functioning because we need them now.
Brian, I was at that protest. Wasn't it odd how the tv interviewer knew who to interview!
I don't believe anyone one from the fan panel, or associated with the club will put the view of us, over the edict from Kenwright.
Danny Baily
312 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:44:43
We've got a poorly balanced squad and a poor manager (who we as fans insisted we hired). BK has little to nothing to do with our current on the field problems.
Allan Board
313 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:47:29
This general negative vibe at Everton has been there as long as I can remember. Except for Martinez 1st season- which was wonderful to watch and be part of in the stadiums. I thought at the time that all we needed was a better keeper and we would have been in top 3,and still do. What happened during that close season was crucial for the momentum to continue- top players would have come- but we ended up with Wigan cast offs. Did Kenwright refuse to stump up the cash? Or did Martinez just get it badly wrong?
Anyways, Everton FC have never returned even remotely to those heights. I know what I would bet my money on though.
The one common denominator in all of this- the self professed greatest Evertonian ever. He has destroyed the fabric of our club.
I haven't been to Goodison since 2015 because of what he has done to our club,and will never return until him and his ilk have been irradicated.
It's like clearing the garage out after 20 year's of prevarication- bin the fucking lot and start a fresh.
I expect Frank to be out of work this week.
Jim Lloyd
315 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:52:43
Danny Baily, Kenwright has all to do with the current situation. He hasn't picked the team (though he's chosen some players)
He has over 28 years, taken most, if not all, of the decisions that have lead us to where this club is now.
Our on the field problems are directly affected by the history of mismanagement this self seeking individual has made. Directly!
Derek Knox
316 Posted 13/11/2022 at 09:55:51
Brian M @ 306, Yes, I agree mate, I was there in the pouring rain at the ' 27 Protest ' the main beef as the name suggests was the torpor of 27 years, but Sky came across like it was Moshiri's sole blame. Mosh has been stupid yes, in letting Kenwright carry on as Chairman as virtually a minor shareholder, and in sanctioning a lot of Journeymen Transfers at Marque Prices, plus he hasn't been there 27 years either. But he has overseen and funded the new Stadium Build (hope it's not the best Stadium in the Championship)

I was fuming after that all 150 of us got absolutely soaked, seemingly for nothing, people believe what is reported, and that was mis-reported totally. Kenwright is one Muppet Maggot who has leeched off this Club for too long, but always comes out smelling of roses instead of the brown stuff.

Getting back to any protest, I think this should be planned better with all groups of supporters represented, and make sure any Cameras and Journalists are crystal clear, what, and who we are protesting about. Like Brian Wilkinson suggested this would be the ideal hiatus in the Football Calendar for the World Cup which most have little interest in anyway. Again, all about the immorality of the Mega Rich (tail) wagging the dog !

Nick Page
317 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:00:57
Danny Bailey @312. That’s the typical lazy feckless thinking that goes on by many on here and at Goodison. Of course we have an unbalanced squad - everybody can see that. But the reason why we have an unbalanced squad, and why our average league position has continued to erode is because of the man you so obviously hold is such high esteem. It’s ALL to do with Kenwright. Every little thing that you see has his hallmark on it. The lack of substance, the lack of expectation, the lack of a long term plan (and building a stadium with someone else’s money can’t paper over the failings of a commercial team that has continually underperformed). He makes YOU believe we would be worse off without him, and he actually believes that and treats YOU with utter contempt. And you roll over, accept it, and point the finger at a squad that has been hastily assembled by many hands.
Jim Lloyd
318 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:09:49
I hope a group of toffee webbers would get together and focus our aims and contact other groups about a united protest of Evertonians. There's some lads on here who could do it, if we would back them.
Nick Page
319 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:11:30
Should get Big Nev on board for any protesting and/or fan action. One of the only honest ones. Sharp et al are a disgrace. Card carrying Kenwright lap dogs. Reidy I’d like to think has something to say. Sheeds was never scared of having an opinion.

Meanwhile that lot over the park, who think FSG haven’t given them much money despite winning a PL title, a Champions League, an Fa Cup and a League Cup, and have complained will now see a mega-investor come in with billions to compete with City et al. And then where does that leave us? Oh, that’s OK we’re plucky Everton and Blue Bill will look after us.

Honestly our fan base is half the problem. If you people are happy at the thought of turning up and watching us getting played off the pitch by Forest fucking Green then carry on being an ignorant twat and keep sitting on your fucking hands. Or better still, f off.

Danny O’Neill
320 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:12:06
The thing is Allan, Moyes could be out of work this week as well.

Oh dear. Now there is a scary thought.

We can applaud him back onto the pitch just as we dumbly applauded him off it in 2013. Talk about tears and happy clapping. Well be drowning in them and the noisiest ones front the Directors' Box.

Bill watching from the Main Stand with ample boxes of **Kleenex to hand, having declared a reunion of hearts and minds. Taking Everton back to the promised land of winning nothing. Safe in the knowledge that lowering of expectation and plucky Everton can be reinstalled. That should keep the natives quiet boss (Moshiri). Now, about the naming of the stands, I have a few ideas.

If anyone is serious about joining up, feel free to reach out and get me involved. Send me any links or details.

I said after last season, never again Everton. Enough is enough.

**Other products are available apart from Kleenex and I am not involved with them!!!

Matt Henderson
321 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:14:27
It’s the annual Groundhog Day at Everton with Punxsutawney BILL. It’s astonishing that anyone can think that the senior management of the Club have little to do with the on field performance. The on field performance is the culmination of the decisions made by, and strategies (or lack thereof) put in place by them.

The one constant through years of failure and multiple managers is the shit show at the top.

Brian Harrison
322 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:15:19
I will be very surprised if in the next few days Lampard isn't sacked and as much as I like him I am afraid his 35 games or so in charge have shown just like his spells at Derby and Chelsea he isn't up to the job. When he took over survival was his main priority and with days left of the window he signed Dele and agreed to pay Spurs up to £40 million if Dele played x number of games. But within a few weeks it was obvious that Frank saw for himself what the last 3 managers at Spurs had seen in Dele.
Last season we escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth and that was largely down to Richarlison, Pickford and our amazing fans. Lampard said that he was forced to play a system he didn't want but given the circumstances felt he had no choice. So on the 30th June Richarlison is sold to Spurs, so given that His goals and his play were massive in us staying up you would have thought Franks first job would be to bring in 1 or 2 strikers to help fill the void Richarlison had left. But instead Frank decided his priorities were elsewhere in the team. So he gambled that DCL having been injured for a large part of last season we would rely on DCL staying fit, and to compound this mistake he sent Simms and Dobbin on loan leaving just Rondon who he didnt fancy as back up to DCL. As we know DCL picked up an injury which ruled him out for a couple of months, but did the manager bring in a striker, no he started the season with Anthony Gordon as his main striker and then changed that to Dwight McNeil after a couple of games. His first signing was Tarkowski a solid defender but one who lacked pace so was hardly going to allow us to play further up the pitch. He then signs 4 midfield players Gana, Onana, Garner and McNeil none of them could remotely be described as goal scoring midfield players and this would be the nucleus of our midfield with the ever improving Iwobi but like the others Iwobi isn't a goal scorer. Then he signs Coady to partner Tarkowski again like Tarkowski solid defender with no pace. Then with only days left before the window closes he signs Maupay again another player who struggles to convert chances.

So given all of this why is anybody surprised that we don't score many goals and we must be the least creative side in the premier league. I hear the argument that nobody could get a tune out of this team, Frank bought 8 of them for heavens sake. I watched Brentford yesterday away to City not only won but were the better team and had they taken their chances would have won more comfortably, Southampton also created 3 or 4 good chances against Liverpool, contrast that to us playing lowly Bournemouth were we had 1 shot on target, and defended for our lives against newly promoted Fulham. Many have said we have improved defensively, well I am not convinced we have Kane had more touches in our half than he has had against any other team, Mitrovic had 10 attempts on goal, now those stats don't tell me we have improved defensively and yesterday Bournemouth players received the ball in our area and were allowed to turn and shoot.
I would suggest that Frank has produced the most brain numbing football I have seen from an Everton side in a very long time. We have no plan how to pass through the lines when we do venture near the opponents box the lack of ideas how to open them up is there in every game.
So he has been given money and failed and to let him repeat this in the Jan window would be suicidal.

Tony Abrahams
323 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:21:40
Reading through this thread Ian Riley@263, asks the most pertinent question imo. Has Lampard got the experience to handle a club in decline, or a club that is set up to fail?

Incredible really that a club that is building a brand new ground on an incredible iconic site, is in decline and has been set up to fail for so long, but that’s how I also see it.

The ground looks great, but if the strategic review would have been done by outsiders, then surely they would have picked up on what Ian wrote?

Eddie Dunn
324 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:24:47
RE Frank's post match presser...he said that preseason we were favourites to go down. Simply not true.

He is trying to let himself off.

Criticism of our Board is all well and true. We have been treated like mushrooms by Kenwright for many years but the current malaise is down to the football and tactics that the big coaching team Frank has brought with him.

Time after time we see huge gaps in midfield and our defence overrun.

The key is Gray and Gordon/McNeil. These "wingers" not only fail to penetrate regularly, they also fail to protect their fullbacks.

Mykolenko and Coleman rarely get on the overlap and if they do the centrebacks and midfielders are too slow to break-up counter-attacks.

Most of the goals we concede occur when one of our fullbacks has been sucked forward or our midfield has been unable to mark-up due to being out-numbered.

Lampard still tries to impose his system rarely changing formation. He never tries to go 4-4-2, insists on playing out from the back.

His system is ponderous, and fraught with dangers because his midfielders lack pace and our passing is so poor.

Frank has few options in terms of players but almost every othere team we play have more pace and move the ball quicker.

We do have palyers who can play at pace but our build-ups are too laboured and the widemen take too many touches and have been told to recycle a la Man City.

Frank is trying to look progressive, trying to be like Pep. He is the main problem.

I don't give a fig if he "gets" us, I don't care if he is a "nice guy". I just want a coach who can switch tactics and who can utilise what limited talents we have in a system that works.

He has demonstrated that he is incapable of doing this and thus he should be removed.

Terry McLavey
325 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:25:38
I'm getting REALLY tired of being on the end of bad and bias refereeing.
Maybe they could save the wages of the VAR 'ref' as we never get any decisions our way (Maybe one?)
I truly believe that the game is now corrupt, Qatar being a shining example.
Terry Downes
326 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:26:56
To be honest lads I think whoever comes in as manager they’re under pressure straight away
We are a club who haven’t won a trophy for 27years but still have massive expectations based on history only ? As managers go I thought Marco Silva (whose doing a great job at Fulham on low expectations) should have been given more time ? There must be a reason why on paper good manager become bad managers soon as they come to Everton personally for me it’s the massive expectations and the short time allowed to deliver the answers.
Finally we are light years behind teams like leicester even Fulham we’re miles better than us but still we expect to beat them easily, time for a big reality check lads.
Ray Roche
327 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:31:46
‘ he signed Dele and agreed to pay Spurs up to £40 million’
Surely, if what we read is true, Kenwright is the big cheese when it comes to transfers.
The manager has little say in the matter. BPB is our master negotiator, our hard talking fixer., What is Thelwell? Isn’t he involved?
I will be surprised if our manager, whichever one you look at, is responsible for transfer dealings.
Chris Williams
328 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:36:16
The Dele transfer was widely reported at the time, as being the result of a meeting between Kenwright and Levy in Kenwright’s office. Same day as Frank joined from memory.
Mike Doyle
329 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:37:43
Steavey #307] Makes a good point about our shape/formation. I’m not sure what it is - and I’m not sure the players do either. If anyone could explain what roles Onana and McNeil are supposed to fulfill I’d be grateful - I see 2 rather slow individuals ambling slowly around the pitch offering very little - but happy to be corrected.

The addition of 2-3 players able to score would certainly help, however our super-slow build up play which generously allows the opposition plenty of time to get men behind the ball will have to change too. The only players seemingly keen to drive forwards are Iwobi and Patterson. The others seem content to pass sideways and backwards ( until possession is lost). In this setup the likes of Harland et al would have little impact.

Enough of this. I’m off to the park to work on my Demari Gray step over. You know - The one he uses several times in each game where he has the opportunity to cross into the box, but instead opts to mess around with his fake step over before either passing backwards or losing the ball. Should have it perfected by Boxing Day.

Barry Hesketh
330 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:42:41
Terry @326
Is it really the massive expectations of the fans which is at the root of Everton's failures in recent times, nay decades?

Wanting a team that can go to Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford et al and compete in any given match at those venues, wanting a team that doesn't fold at the first signs of adversity, wanting a team that has a reliable if not totally prolific goalscorer, wanting a team that can overcome similar sides in the cup competitions and not be on the end of so many shocking displays and results in those cup competitions. Wanting to see an Everton team beat the neighbours at Goodison which has proven elusive since 2010. If all of those things are too much to expect, why do we bother?

I think I can safely say, that many Evertonians would settle for a 'quiet' season, where we could observe a competent team, playing competent football without worrying too much about falling out of the league - but I'm probably expecting too much from Everton Football Club.

Darren Hind
331 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:44:36
A meeting between Kenwright and Levy ?

Isnt that a bit like Lennox Lewis stepping into the ring with Ronnie Corbett ?

Hope the Spurs chairman didnt feel too intimidated

Julian Exshaw
332 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:52:50
If Moshiri/Kenwright sack Lampard it will only make them look more incompetent, having had 6 managers since Moyes left and as it's all about image nowadays, so this could be a deciding factor.
I like Lampard but I am far from convinced that he can get anything out of these players and that is the hard fact; there is no money for new players, there will be no magic window for us in January. Why would we suddenly have money now? What has changed since the summer? Even if we had, it would cost mega millions to turn this squad around.
Yesterday was as bleak as any time under Benitez. Privately Lampard must know he has an Everest to climb here. Good luck to him.

Chris Williams
333 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:58:14
Well, we ended up with Alli and a potential £40M price tag, Darren. So I guess Levy went out and told his pals about it, mind you so did Bill probably!

Rumour has it Alli might be back soon.

Derek Taylor
334 Posted 13/11/2022 at 10:59:55
Kenwright directly to blame for two piss poor team performances in a week ? More to do with an unimaginative manager and some pretty crap players, I think.

Yes, Everton is shockingly governed but so are the majority of Clubs in the Prem because they are used as a directors' plaything. And, as Moshiri's experience has shown, it takes more than money to get it right. The hard truth is that 'the man we love to hate' has kept us in the top division whilst more than twenty clubs have no such record of continuity.

I'm no great fan of the leech but he ain't got a bad record, all things considered.

Jim Lloyd
335 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:00:07
Danny, I'm glad you've offered to get involved. I think there's plenty on here who feel the same. Just been talking to Derek Knox and Brian Wilkinson, I hope Brian Murray and Nick page...and others; will get in touch.
If it can bwe organised with the differnt groups of Blues, and individuals who want to get ionvolved, we've got 6 weeks to get an organised protest together.
Matt Henderson
336 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:14:29
For anyone who thinks the Board etc. have little or nothing to do with on field performance, here is a few things a Board would be responsible for.

They are responsible for putting in place a strategy and structure and in signing off all key decisions to:

1. Maximise Commercial opportunities to maximise revenue and monitor costs thus ensuring profits so that we can have more money to fund player purchases and therefore improve team.
2. Govern spending: To ensure spending (predominately on players) is governed and decisions based on overriding strategy to ensure purchases improve team performance and align with both the footballing and financial strategy set by the Club.
3. Govern finances of the Club: ensure financial planning (multi year forward forecasting) and reporting in place to ensure financial decisions made on accurate and timely financial information. There is NO WAY even a half well run club can get even close to FFP issues without knowing years in advance it could happen and therefore allowing it to make decisions early to ensure it does not.
4. Make informed Manager selection: to ensure scouting and due diligence done on all appointments and to ensure appointments align with overriding strategy set by the Club to maximise chances of making the right appointments and therefore maximising on field success.
5. Ensure an overall structure in place with best in class people in charge of all key areas. This includes marketing, legal, finance and on the football side from junior development, through to scouting, recruitment etc. to maximise chances of success through either increased financial performance and excellent player development and talent identification.

The above are just a few and in a league as competitive as ours, where most other Clubs have a Board in place that understand the above, we are going to continue to go backwards, falling behind Clubs we should be way ahead of, until the top of the Club is addressed. The manager is obviously super important but is only one small cog in the overall running of a successful business.

Given the continued chance to, this Board can take us much, much lower then we are today and making change at that level is the only way we halt and begin reversing the decline.

Nick Page
337 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:14:41
Derek Taylor 334 - listen to what David Ornstein of The Athletic just said about Brighton and Tony Bloom on Sky. That’s how a club is run, by proper professionals. Not this fucking shambles. And that is reflected on the pitch.
Dave Abrahams
338 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:16:54
Chris (328), Chris your memory is spot on, it was even reported on Toffeeeweb that Kenwright had, potentially, done a good job with this signing.

I begged to differ on the same thread.

Derek Taylor
339 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:23:36
MATT @336. Are you really suggesting that all those Board deficiencies were in the thoughts of manager and players who so disgraced us this week. And that's what this thread is about -failure to perform not good governance !
Danny O’Neill
340 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:24:02
Darren, I'd liken that meeting to a 16 year old scrawny me taking on a 1980s Mike Tyson

One winner. Bill going in asking Levy what he can afford. Maybe offering a couple of complimentary theatre tickets.

Jim, Derek has emailed me. I've just been at Remembrance but will respond later today.

Dave Abrahams
341 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:26:31
Matt (336), A very good post Matt, I think a great many Everton fans would be more than interested in how much each of the Directors on Everton’s Board receive financially for the privilege of sitting on the Board and what they have achieved, apart from banking their wages,since being appointed.
Steavey Buckley
342 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:27:09
How can Kenwright be blamed for this seasons poor performances? Kenwright didn't sign the players, doesn't choose the team and doesn't choose the tactics or the team's formation. They are to do with the manager, who is now losing the support of the team and the fans.
Jim Lloyd
343 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:30:15
Matt. An excellent reminder of how adrift our board are. Well timed and apt!
Matt Henderson
344 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:31:42

Are you really suggesting we have only been disgraced by these players and this manager alone and only been disgraced for the first time this week?

We've been disgraced on an ongoing basis for a number of years by various players and managers. What is the constant through these years of disgrace?

It's the same people in charge making the decisions that lead us here. This week is not someone off! It's repeated year after year! The governance of the Board and the decisions they make culminate in regular shit performances. If these disgraces were one-offs in an otherwise demonstrable period of success I might lay blame elsewhere but they happen year after year.

Do you not wonder why we have changed managers multiple times with zero along term improvement. I don't think anything is going through the players minds… I just don't think they are very good and we have a shite group of players because of the decisions made at the top.

Andrew McLawrence
345 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:32:35
Will anyone want to join in January. Diaz? Promotion-chasing team to relegation fodder. I don't think so. Simply deluded to think we can turn this around with a forward or two. The failure to even try something different is astonishing.

Haven't scored from 60 corners is more to do with the crap delivery. Find someone other than Gray or Gordon who can actually beat the first defender. Hard to find hope.

Danny O’Neill
346 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:37:25
Steavey, I think the two are linked. It's not just about Saturday and Tuesday's results. I was unfortunate enough to be there for both.

It's about 20byears of how the club has been run for nigh on 30 years or more.

The managers may make mistakes in selection and tactics, but they can only operate with what they have or have the ability to go and get.

That comes from the top and how the club is run.

Too many of our managers have been scapegoats through lack of investment.

Even "one of our own" and the last one to win a trophy was effectively forced / manged out, even though it will always go down as him resigning.

Matt Henderson
347 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:39:50
When a plc fails shareholders don’t come after the operations team or the head of sales, they go after the CEO and Board as they make all the decisions on strategy and direction of the company as well as all the key appointments within the company.

Even if you continue to blame the players and the managers rather than the Board - who do you think it is that keeps appointing them and getting it wrong year after year. A shit manager and a shot group of players is by default the result of the Board who appoints them. And what from this fabled period of success leads you to think this Board is going to get the next manager appointment correct? How many more appointments need to be wrong before we start looking higher up for change!

Ian Edwards
348 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:39:59
In the cold light of day after the dust has settled, I think we are going down.

Lampard selects the same team, formation and tactics and won't change. Even at 2-0 down, he never went 2 up front. I watched Wolves yesterday and if Traore runs at our unprotected defence like he had a go at Arsenal, then we will lose. Then we have Man City away.

Lampard did well to keep us up last season but hasn't taken us forward. There will be World Cup managers looking for clubs soon. We should nab one. But not Southgate.

Kevin Molloy
349 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:41:11

I've not watched the presser but that is one thing about Frank which drives me nuts. when he says 'we were favourites to go down' he's not addressing evertonians, he's talking to the wider world about him Frank Lampard, and what a terrible job he was given. It's rank unprofessionalism. Can you imagine Howard Kendall talking about the club like that.

Moyes used to do the same, address his comments not to Evertonians, but to the people he thought were charting his managerial career

'we may not be a big club', but bollocks

Martin Mason
350 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:44:50
Another manager, well of course that always works doesn't it. We are in trouble and despite decades of watching Everton I have never been so disappointed because despite the dreadful season last year I thought that we had signed players who could sort it out but the reality is that nobody sells players who are any good. I read that it took Arsenal 3 years to set up their club systems before they even applied them at coaching level and it is at the upper management level that clubs and teams are made. The buck doesn't stop at Lampard in fact he is almost irrelevant compared to the total devastation that loose cannons like Moshiri and Kenwright can wreak. We have time to turn the season round but while this could be the beginning of the end of our bad form it could easily be the end. For sure the only answer for the club but our downfall is inevitable while the chuckle brothers are in charge.
Steavey Buckley
351 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:45:26
Frank Lampard basically signed 6 players this season who are now not performing with tactics and in formations they appear not to understand. Come to think of it, the fans don't understand also.
Kevin Molloy
352 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:45:34
I'm not sure the key problem facing us right now is the hierarchy. We're stuck with that whatever, Moshiri is desperate to sell, he just can't seem to get anyone to pay. The bigger problem is the coaching, we are not hurting teams with our passing. it's all in front of the opposition. It seems like we've been watching the same dirge now for ten years, with changing faces, and half a billion going out the door.
Rob Halligan
353 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:47:23

Count me in for any protests.

Chris Williams
354 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:49:28
The state of squad and team performance and the state of The P & L are two sides of the same coin. Directly connected and the responsibility of the same people.
Jim Lloyd
355 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:53:44
Spot on Matt/ The manager and players are here as a direct result of Board decisions. The same manager and players except for injuries, played Crystal Palace off the Park. Whatever happened in the last week is part and parcel of the whole history of this club since Kenwright took the Chairman's role.
I think this match has come to represent that history. We change a manager (who would come!) we are still left with little money to spend! For players who have been here for years that we can't shift and this manager has been here for 9 months to try and put it right.
The Board are directly responsible for the Manager and for funds for players. This match was one tiny episode in a 28 year drudge to where we are now. It has to come out.
Paul Tran
356 Posted 13/11/2022 at 11:59:41
For completeness and context, Jas Bal was asked if he was happy with the set up between the club and the Fans Committee That's what he said he was happy with.

Yesterday was coming. It's been easy to rack up shots against us, with a tight back four brilliantly blocking them and a keeper in great form. Yesterday Pickford cost us the first goal and the back four was all over the place.

Midfield is the sortable issue. It is neither protecting the back four, nor providing a goal threat.

I've been saying it for years, no goals in this team. It's not about waiting to buy/gamble on a striker, it's about bringing in wingers, midfielders, defenders who chip in with goals.

We don't do that, that's why we're stuffed when we go a goal down. And the players look like they know it.

Trevor Peers
357 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:13:29
We've obviously been in this position many many times before and changing the manager has helped us prevail. At no point have we ever stuck with a manager whose results threaten our premiership existence, so to some extent it works.

Anyone advocating that we stick with a bum manager just because we haven't tried that route before is playing with fire ! Lampard has lost the plot, trusting him to find a new strike force offers a tiny chance of an upturn, but for how long ? Sacking him is inevitable.

Nick Page
358 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:19:52
Here you go. Apologies, I lost the TW link but it’s still available here. Note the date…and note the key actors:

Jim Lloyd
359 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:20:02
Well, the extremely efficient Board will soon solve that problem.
James Newcombe
360 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:22:14
I don't know Frank, i'd have said that Bournemouth were one of the favourites to go down, you know? Yes, the Bournemouth who lost four league games on the bounce until Clown FC came to town.

If we don't find a way to score goals regularly then we'll be bottom of the division before long. You'd think we'd have done everything possible to ensure last season didn't happen again, but we are the Blues and here we are. Still lacking a fit PL striker... And no Richarlison this time.

Matt Henderson
361 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:27:01
I don’t think it’s one or the other - change the manager or change the Board - I just think changing the manager alone (as we have done many times) and doing nothing about the Board still leaves us living with the core issue driving our continued and ongoing failure as a Club and, as we have seen, leads us back to square 1 soon after. Last season there was the beginnings of uproar against the Board and they then appointed Frank and fans, rightly, got behind the team and drove them to survival. Right at that moment, soon after the Palace game, was the time to renew the push against the Board because here we are again. I enjoyed the celebrations post Palace but in retrospect I think that symbolises where we are as a Club, rather being ecstatic with scraping to survival we should have been furious with it and turned on the ownership and management immediately and let them know it.

How gullible are we that we let a management structure internally review themselves. If they were serious about improving the Club they would open it up to an external,
specialised review and take any uncomfortable criticism that might come their way for the betterment of the Club. If any Club is in need of outsider advice, after so many years of going nowhere, it’s us!

Eddie Dunn
362 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:36:22
Kevin -yes Frank in his presser was talking to the outside world, he looked worried that he could be to blame for taking on the awfully difficult task of saving this shit team. A shit team that he has helped to construct and that he coaches. He cannot absolve himself of blame.
Players get asked to play systems that don't work and after a while they know that it isn't going to work. That is what we have just been seeing players lacking faith in a system that fails to get the ball from back to front. These players can see it. Gordon has been visibly frustrated, Iwobi has bust a gut trying to make it work.
The coaching staff are stuck in a loop -they are repeating the same shit.
Frank's rep is in tatters and he won't get another coaching job -no-one will touch him, so he has now started his own version of reality, like he did at Chelsea and Derby. His career is over if we sack him over.
He even referred to us as "Chelsea" at one point.
This guy is a fraud.
A good player but not a manager...he has a lot of friends in the game, Daddy and "Arry and all those Chelsea contacts and chums of his wife in the media.
He has to go.
Brian Harrison
363 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:45:16
Well if getting Kenwright to resign will make such a difference, to our players or our managers tactics I am all ears. Since Moshiri and Usmanov took over this club they have pumped in in excess of £500 million, which apart from a couple of clubs thats the most any club has spent. So they may have appointed some very poor managers to spend their money but you cant fault this Owners backing of various managers. He has also embarked on spending a further £500 million on a new stadium, which is some outlay. Should he sell tomorrow the general consensus is that Everton is worth about £700 million, so he is going to take a massive hit financially.

I see some saying the Dele deal was sorted between Kenwright and Levy, and somehow this signing was all Kenwrights idea. Well I refer you to an interview where Uncle Harry Rednapp said he suggested to Frank that it may be worth a punt on Dele, and low and behold we sign Dele. There were some comparing Kenwright and Levy, they are both as bad as one another Levy just minds the shop for Joe Lewis and Spurs have won exactly what under their stewardship.

I have said in many posts over time Kenwright should have gone and probably about the time Moyes left. But our fall over the past few years is down to hiring poor managers which Usmanov and Moshiri oversaw. But apart from Benitez who got no money to spend all the other managers were backed financially.

Ian Edwards
364 Posted 13/11/2022 at 12:46:16
Eddie @362,

In which interview did he call us Chelsea?

Bill Watson
365 Posted 13/11/2022 at 13:04:57
Just getting my knees working again after a 12-hour coach trip to see the same old, same old, shit.

Most points have been covered but Lampard's substitutions were, once again, far too late to affect the result. When he did finally get on Cannon had more positive touches in 15 minutes than Maupay had in 75 and gave the side someone to look for in the final third.

Team selection, formation and substitutions are down to the manager but he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes, The buck stops with him.

Dave Abrahams
366 Posted 13/11/2022 at 13:10:08
Brian (363), Yes I also read that t was Harry, the spiv, who suggested Ali to his nephew and maybe Frank put the Spurs players name foward,but it was Kenwright and Levy who sorted the deal out,and we know who kidded who.
Raymond Fox
367 Posted 13/11/2022 at 13:12:34
Nothing much has changed, we are still stuck with a squad of players that who in this highly competitive league are barely good enough.

We've been bouncing along the bottom for a few seasons now, we don't seem able for one reason or another to buy an outstanding player or two who can make the difference between winning or losing.

I don't see the point of sacking another manager, the new one has only the same players to choose from. Its not worked so far, we've tried it often enough.

Our defensive players are good enough, its in the middle of the field where we lack class most and thats the most important part of a team for me.
We all know we are also badly lacking up front when Calvert - Lewin is injured, you cant win if you cant score.

We need to sell a few surplus players in the next window and buy a couple of the best forwards we can afford, easier said than done though.

Darren Hind
368 Posted 13/11/2022 at 13:25:35

Nobody was comparing Levy to Kenwright. There is no comparison.

Levy's only involvement in the football side of things is to negotiate top dollar for players leaving and pay as little as possible for those coming in. He minds the shop. He does what Lewis pays him to do. He takes care of business.

Kenwright on the other hand meddles constantly...In everything. He's often bought high and sold cheap.

on Levy's watch Spurs have built the best stadium in the world, deep in the heart of Spurs territory,

If Kenwright had his way, we would have long since been playing our home games in Tesco's car park in Kirkby.

While Spurs challenge for CL places on Levy's watch. we have been in a seemingly endless struggle on Kenwrights.

I agree with you on our managers though. If you include their wages. The wages of the people they have brought with them. The wages of the players they signed. Moshiri must have spent what is rapidly approaching a billion pound - Daft Twat.

I think the right manager is out there for us and I think we have a better chance of finding him. if Moshiri fucks uncle Bill off...Then sells to the highest bidder and fucks off himself.

I could improve on the managers Moshiri and Kenwright have brought in. I'd just stick an advert in the shop window saying.

"Footie manager wanted. Those with an aversion to creativity, Cowards, Greedy bastards. Wagon circler's and anybody with a penchant for lighthouse's masquerading as center halves need not apply"

We'd have saved ourselves an awful lot of heartache if somebody did that 20 years ago

Nick Page
369 Posted 13/11/2022 at 13:34:19
Here you go - here’s Ornsteins interview on Sky. For the cloth-eared fuckers in the support who think this managerial merry go round, and diabolical on/off pitch performance is NOT down to the incumbent board, LISTEN very carefully to every word he says. And then weep at what Kenwright has done.

Will Mabon
370 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:01:01
Nick, he has a point.

Obviously something is working at Brighton. Newcastle too in its way.

Dale Rose
371 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:04:05
Christy 224. I've always believed that he was catalyst for our current predicament.
Ian Edwards
372 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:07:42
You can blame the Board all you want but they don't decide tactics, team selection and subs. They are all down to the manager.

The supporters also have some blame. They have driven out and protested about every manager since Moyes left 10 years ago. (Yes... me included!)

The fans have even protested about a potential manager (Pereira).

Eddie Dunn
373 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:09:07
Ian -it was a slip of the tongue but it was in his post match presser last night.
Nick Page
374 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:09:41
Will, I would say he has exactly the point. And as many have said including yourself the off the pitch activities and strategy set the tone for what goes on on the pitch. We’re the worst run club in the league for anyone that cares to look (just look at our financial statements for proof). And we’ll be relegated this year, and likely the year after unless it changes IN A BIG WAY and very soon.
Brendan McLaughlin
375 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:16:00
Fat Frank odds on with the bookies to get the chop
Brian Murray
376 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:21:03
Ian. News flash. The board generate the finance for a manager to spend. The board get the very best sponsorships they can. The board do state what ambitions the club have. I could go on and the rolling of eyes won’t convince me they need ( he ) needs to go with immediate effect.
Nick Page
377 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:22:06
If you haven’t read this or can’t be bothered clicking the link I thought I would copy and paste Colin’s full post. (It might be better on another thread, Michael)? It just think it’s so prescient as ever to be reminded of what’s gone on. If anyone feels like writing the following 12 years of mismanagement, lies and skulduggery from Kenwright Towers I’ll be glad to help. So here you go - perfect for a Sunday afternoon:

Yesterday, on another thread here on ToffeeWeb, a poster from the US (Mike Gaynes) claimed he follows Everton's games but didn't see he UK press so knew little of the off-field history and "information" obtained through the press and media. At the moment, the worlds sports media appear transfixed by events across the park, which is all very entertaining and an easy story for the media and the general public to follow with its heady mix of the country's popular obsessions of debt, the banks, a sprinkling of xenophobia and a former media idol fallen on hard times. Like most I've even spent a little time following the story but, not surprisingly, like Evertonians everywhere, I’m actually more concerned that my club are, and will probably remain, in a far worse long-term predicament than Liverpool FC are now and will ever be in the foreseeable future.

This summer, having apparently hit rock bottom and being a football club in crisis, Liverpool FC still managed to spend over £20m on new players whilst we ended up signing a no-cost ex-window fitter from the lower leagues to lead our line. Do you honestly believe David Moyes would have accepted this by choice? If that had happened at Liverpool FC, their supporters would have been up in arms and yet apathetically conditioned Evertonians just sit there and meekly accept our current predicament.

Having turned their backs on the idea of "The People's Club", the Board of Directors have now rebranded Everton FC under the banner of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Does the current situation reflect or even merit the philosophy of 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum' to you? Such marketing is at best inappropriate and at worst cynical and derogatory to those enlightened Evertonians who actually do know their history.

As Liverpool slipped into the relegation zone, last week, The Echo front page screamed about LFC hitting rock bottom when not a word was said the previous week when we were actually bottom of the league; perhaps our beloved chairman and our top-of-the-league spin department suddenly giving interviews and issuing press releases to all and sundry had something to do with it. What a pity our prowess in this area couldn't be transferred to similarly manage the financial affairs of the club and subsequently the quality of those Everton players in front of the opposition goal.

It's said that apportioning blame for a problem can be counterproductive yet it is also good practice to identify the root cause of that problem so that a solution can be found. Too many Evertonians are ambivalent when it comes to identifying the root cause of our problem; unlike at other clubs where supporters actually care enough to do something, to get involved, too many Evertonians do nothing and allow this perpetual state of mediocrity to exist.

Our dilemma is apparent: with October 2010 upon us we find ourselves, once again, at the wrong end of the table; already out of one cup, courtesy of a lowly League One club and blatantly unable to address a striker problem that has resulted in less than 20% of our 2010 goals [52] coming from a recognised striker and with little prospect of addressing the abysmal stadium issue save for another alleged effectively free scheme, the small print of which continues to be conveniently avoided.

To my mind, demands for playing 4-4-2 instead of 4-5-1, or a player here instead of there, are too simplistic and undervalue the complexity of the game; I am in no doubt whatsoever that we'll have a run of results and climb the table. This just isn't the problem — being where we are, in the league, is a symptom, not the cause.

For me, the seeds of our latest predicament were sown a long, long time ago, but, in essence, these seeds began to germinate in May 2009. Cast your minds back to that long journey home following our defeat at the Cup Final; we consoled ourselves that we'd had a reasonable campaign, we'd reached the FA Cup Final, we had the Manager of the Season at the helm and by once again finishing fifth, we were now firmly established as the team leading the pack to break into the top 4. Our stock had never been higher in recent years and, if we were ever going to be sold, if we were ever going to take the next step forward, that was the time. Predictably, as we have become accustomed at Everton, the moment came and went.

Whilst the rest of us travelled home in defeat, the great and the good of Everton FC were celebrating and pressing the flesh at London's Grosvenor House. The chairman was relishing the final flickers of limelight he'd vainly sought over those preceding weeks, further opportunities to gild the lily with ever more outrageous stories... shamelessly, on TalkSport, in the presence of that Parry creature, he was now claiming to have been with Eddie Kavanagh at the '66 final; one wondered if Elvis and Tommy Steele were there in attendance also!

Back on the long journey home, many of us sought solace in the fact that we'd reached the Cup Final with some of our best players missing through injury; thus we'd hoped that the club could take that extra step upon their return the following season. Perhaps David Moyes thought the same, with a few strategic buys and the rub of the Green, that much yearned for trophy would be secured, perhaps even a Champions League place...

In hindsight, for Evertonians going to bed that night it was like going to bed on the Titanic on 14 April 1912, blissfully unaware that their optimism for the future was about to make a change for the worse. Sadly, many remain blissfully unaware.

In the months following this plateau, we learnt that we'd achieved record turnover for the year, our manager naturally told us he needed to increase the squad with bodies, and that Joleon Lescott was not for sale.

Following the abandonment of probing and difficult to stage manage Annual General Meetings by the Board, the CEO told a forum of shareholders that the Board would be open and responsive to any questions and that no question would be out of bounds; moments later the chairman, Bill Kenwright, immaturely refused to answer a question concerning the sale of the club whilst verbally abusing the shareholder for asking a perfectly legitimate question about a business to which he had a financial as well as emotional stake. This shareholder has subsequently relinquished his shareholding in disgust of the chairman and his arrogant attitude and actions towards minor shareholders.

The 2009-10 season began disastrously — defeat after defeat, an unbelievable injury list to a paper thin squad, the late sale of the "not for sale" Lescott and last minute acquisitions saw a faltering start to the campaign which only later appeared to flourish after an excellent display against Manchester United, the arrival of on-loan winger Landon Donavon, and the emerging development of Marouane Fellaini in a commanding defensive midfield role. The campaign concluded with early exits from all cup competitions and a final league placing of 8th condemned us to a season without European football.

During this close season, most Evertonians realised that the manager urgently needed to address the striker problem and the lack of width on the right following the departure of Donavan. Despite the annual posturing that fools hardly anyone anymore, many Evertonians have long since acclimatised themselves to the business strategy of the Bill Kenwright era, that is of asset disposal in order to fund the business; in other words having to sell to buy, sell to fund wages, sell to compete as best we can. We sell tangible assets, we sell intangible assets; nothing wrong with that occasionally but sadly this is the only strategy that the current board have. The CEO agreed at the public inquiry into Destination Kirkby that such a strategy is not sustainable in the long term. What happens is you either run out of assets to sell... or, as we found out this year, we own assets that people simply don't want to buy for a whole host of reasons.

Almost two months into the current Premier League season, despite playing some decent football, we've only just secured our first win and, with football being all about results, this clearly isn't good enough, so who's to blame? For me, there are only two candidates, the manager or the chairman.

David Moyes became manager in 2002. It's widely acknowledged that Everton, not for the first time in recent history, avoided relegation that season due to his timely appointment — ironically, the result of a recommendation from outgoing manager Walter Smith. His eight year reign has yet to produce a trophy; his league finishes have been 15th, 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th and 8th; the previous eight years saw Everton finish 16th, 13th, 14th, 17th, 15th, 6th, 15th and 17th.

Highlights of the cup campaigns include a League Cup semi-final and an FA Cup Final that saw Everton lose out to Chelsea on both occasions, whilst lowlights include a litany of heavy and embarrassing defeats in the Premier League, domestic and European cup competitions... coupled with some of the lowest points and goal tallies in the club’s history.

In his time at Everton, David Moyes has been awarded the LMA Manager of the Year accolade on three occasions and has been academically acknowledged as the best-value manager in the Premier League in terms of points obtained against wages paid. Objectively, his record on bringing players in can be best described as mixed (whose isn't?) — great success with the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott; less so with Beattie, Johnson, Davies and Bilyaletdinov... the less said about Per Krøldrup and Andy van der Meyde, the better.

Bill Kenwright’s appointment to the Board in 1989 coincided with the club's decline from the heyday of the mid 1980s. Mr Kenwright’s performance as a director of Everton Football Club has seen him supportive of the decision to sell Duncan Ferguson and complicit with the precarious financial position the club found itself in under Peter Johnson. Indeed, it is intriguing as to why Mr Kenwright publicly endorsed the proposed recent move to Kirkby whilst just a few years earlier he sought to undermined his then chairman, Peter Johnson, by covertly financing the activities of the Goodison For Everton [GFE] group who were opposed to Johnson's original Kirkby relocation plans.

Following Peter Johnson's demise, once installed as owner, through the now defunct vehicle known as True Blue Holdings (TBH), Bill Kenwright was the person responsible for overseeing the advance spending of the never-to-materialise NTL media money which was wasted on abysmal signings such as Alex Nyarko — ridiculously recruited on a 5-year contract but with only a 4-year work permit — after the sale of then club captain Don Hutchison.

The failure to secure the £30M investment from NTL is surprisingly overlooked by most commentators due to the demise of NTL... yet, in a stroke, the advance spending of the money doubled Everton's debt and significantly worsened the already precarious finances of the club. Of course, the implication of this event and the uncertain nature of the finances were easily passed off as being down to the previous chairman, Peter Johnson.

The consequence of the NTL affair paled into insignificance when compared to the mishandling of the Kings Dock opportunity which saw Everton left in an unsuitable and out-dated stadium with (then) record levels of debt and administrators waiting in the wings — just as they do at Anfield as we speak; events which eventually precipitated the controversial sale at a knock-down price of arguably Everton's greatest talent of the modern era: Wayne Rooney.

Whilst other Premier League clubs, with better foresight, continued (indeed, continue) to invest in their infrastructure, the failure to secure funding for the Kings Dock left Everton in a poor position in relation to their ability to generate increased matchday and, due to the proposed 49% ownership structure, non-matchday revenue streams. The claims to the council that our contribution for the Kings Dock stadium was "ring-fenced", when it wasn't, and Bill Kenwright's refusal to allow Paul Gregg to deliver the financial package which would have secured the iconic waterfront stadium for the club, albeit dispensing with Bill Kenwright as owner, left Everton's board appearing amateurish, unprofessional and untrustworthy in the eyes of many, particularly the officers of the local council.

Post Kings Dock, the increasing debt situation was accompanied by a power struggle between Bill Kenwright and the Gregg family, Paul Gregg having a similar number of shares than Bill Kenwright whilst his wife, Anita, had lent Bill Kenwright the money to secure his shares from Peter Johnson through TBH.

CEOs came and went; one, Trevor Birch — an insolvency practitioner who infamously lasted just six weeks before leaving — highlighted the near catastrophic debt situation at the club. The initial solution, in 2002, was to consolidate the debt and take out a then fashionable securitization loan with the Prudential against the stadium and serviced through future ticket revenue over the next 25 years. This didn't remove the level of debt within the club which had by then had reached the disastrous level of 126% of the club's annual turnover! This was only reduced some years later when, following emergency lending from Singer and Friedlander, Wayne Rooney was sold to save the club.

The Greggs eventually took a back seat after Bill Kenwright produced a bogus investor in the shape of Fortress Sports Fund — their supposed representative, Chris Samuelson (attempting to pass himself off as an Evertonian), delivered a memorable and embarrassing performance at the 2004 AGM. It goes without saying the promised investment from Fortress, as with NTL, failed to materialise; even after Bill Kenwright told all and sundry "the money will be in the bank tomorrow."

After a season where we appeared to be slipping back into our old ways, a former director of the club claims that the board, headed by Bill Kenwright, had concluded a deal to replace Blackburn-bound David Moyes with Celtic's former manager, Martin O'Neill, who is said to have reneged on the deal and a similar one he is alleged to have had with Leeds, at the last minute, and joined Aston Villa.

In October 2006, Paul Gregg purportedly sold his shares to Robert Earl's British Virgin Island registered company BCR Sports, but Paul Gregg has since confirmed he was actually paid for those shares by a certain Sir Phillip Green, a person recently described on Question Time as an individual guilty of tax evasion on an industrial scale. Presumably Anita Gregg was also repaid around this time period. Bill Kenwright claims Philip Green has nothing to do with Everton, that he is merely a friend of his — and therefore a friend of ours! Another former CEO, Keith Wyness, begged to differ when, following his resignation in 2008, he, through The Times, initially cited concern over interference by Philip Green in business decisions at Everton as the reason he had resigned.

Since 2004, Everton had planned to move to a new state-of-the-art training facility at Finch Farm, Knowsley. This plan came to fruition in the autumn of 2007. The land, having been earlier acquired by Everton from KMBC, was sold to a development company, ROM Capital, from which we now rent the purpose built £8m complex for a figure in excess of £1m a year over a 50 year lease agreement. The sale of the old training facility at Bellefield was later intended to provide some of the capital required for Destination Kirkby, but over an ambitious planning application meant that council planning permission was refused and a futile appeal was dismissed by the government. The chairman has since begged the new council to approve the latest, more modest, application as this, he claimed, was meant to provide David Moyes with his summer budget for 2010. At the moment no approval or sale has been secured nor did we sell any players of note so the manager was unable to secure the much needed winger and recognised striker prior to the start of the season.

Following the demise of the Gregg family connection Everton embarked on perhaps the darkest hour in its illustrious history. In the opinion of many, the current board, headed by Bill Kenwright, attempted to sell Everton down the river in return for a £52m addition to their balance sheet. The chairman stood by whilst fans and shareholders were misled with promises of £10m a season funds for the manager, of a world class facility served by the best transport infrastructure in the north of England; it was claimed to be the deal of the century, a stadium that would be effectively free as Tesco, according to "director" Robert Earl, were giving Everton a irrevocable cheque for £52m. Indeed Mr Kenwright even contributed to the scaremongering when in December 2007 he told TV viewers that Goodison Park would soon fail to get a safety certificate – that was nearly 3 years ago.

In reality, Destination Kirkby was a plan that was officially described as a con by both Liverpool and Sefton councils, a plan that once again left Everton embarrassed when the Governments planning inspector, through the office of the Secretary of State, heavily criticised Everton's inability to provide evidence of their capacity to deliver the £78m required to build the stadium; criticism also directed at Tesco and Knowsley Council for their initial reluctance to reveal where the alleged £52m cross-subsidy was actually coming from until it was finally admitted, by both of them, that it wasn't actual money at all; it turned out to be simply the increase in the land value once planning consent was secured; in other words, just like it was previously described, it was a con; another con perpetrated under Bill Kenwright's chairmanship and documented for all to see.

Armed with the knowledge that the Destination Kirkby application effectively died a death on June 4th 2008, some enlightened shareholders urgently attempted to curtail Everton's bizarre involvement in this charade by securing an EGM later that year. Whilst the majority, said to be approaching 80%, of those shareholders in attendance at that September EGM voted for Everton to end their association with the application, the board wouldn't listen and used voting power of their 26,000 or so shares, and those of a very small minority of sycophantic followers, to inflict a predictable heavy defeat against the resolution. Just over twelve months later the action of those enlightened Evertonians, the ones with only the best interests of the club at heart, was endorsed when on the 26th November 2009 the Secretary of State announced the official refusal of the application. Everton were left with nothing; the board had wasted four years and untold many millions of pounds on a ridiculous and undeliverable pipe dream. Tesco has subsequently submitted an amended planning application and, now unsurprisingly uncontested, will now build something twice the size allowable under local planning regulations. The truth may now just start dawning on the naive as to what Kirkby was all about and they may start to understand that somebody, willingly or obliviously, had been played like a violin.

It's now almost a year since that announcement by the Secretary of State; in that year we've ascertained from the chairman, whilst we were bottom of the league, that four potential owners have approached the club, due diligence procedures had been conducted but when asked to provide evidence of funding all the parties disappeared. As usual with Everton no names have been provided; supporters of Bill Kenwright immediately offer claims of confidentiality agreements being adhered to but surely if they've disappeared, the discussions have been curtailed and they've wasted our money and our time, why can't their names be revealed?

The chairman now tells us that Everton are now in discussions with yet another three unidentified parties, but another self-publicist, Keith Harris, the person who one minute is then isn't employed by Everton to seek a buyer, claims nobody is interested in Everton at the moment.

Taking into account all these details my position is clear, your own position may be different and that is your prerogative, but I firmly believe that to move the club forward there's only one course of action that can be taken and it doesn't concern the manager playing a more attacking formation or replacing him with anyone who can operate more effectively on a budget that reflects a bottom of the table premiership club or a mid-table championship outfit.

The other week I was at Goodison late at night. I was leaving with Tom Hughes and as we walked along the deserted corridors we were looking at the team pictures of old, I was pointing out the old players in the squad of 38/39, Tom, as expected, was pointing out the newly erected Leitch stand they were standing before! Passing the boardroom we laughed at an imaginary imprint of Moyes’ size ten on the door where he had kicked it in asking for money. Of course there’s no footprint, that’s not Moyes style, he keeps his counsel on such matters. The next day, after half time at Fulham, Moyes ran along the touchline in front of the travelling blues to take his seat; all of us stood and applauded him, as the youngsters were singing his name he saluted the crowd and mouthed “thank-you”

Based on his track record, my opinion of David Moyes, for what it’s worth, is that he isn’t the best manager in the world and that some of his tactics drive me to distraction, but he’s an honest man attempting to do an honest job; over the course of a season he’s most probably the best manager we could get and considering the meagre resources on offer, he’s most probably better than we deserve at the moment, so, on balance, while he’s here I support him fully; when he goes let’s hope we're in the position to attract someone better, but, on reflection, I think that will be a big ask.

After examining the track record of Bill Kenwright my opinion is he’s a phoney, an actor who regularly watched Liverpool as a kid and someone who cynically overstates his Evertonian credentials to aid his perceived [my him] popularity. His relationship with Philip Green appears to be far more than what he describes and this should be of great concern to all Evertonians. In company law a shadow director is someone who is not a named director but who directs or controls the company; this is what the companies act says about the identification of shadow directors:

"The Companies Act defines a shadow director as a person who instructs other directors what to do and those directors follow his instructions. Individuals who act in this way are deemed to have the same liabilities as properly appointed directors.

A shadow director can be any person, but are usually majority shareholders that threaten to replace them if they do not follow their instructions.

A properly appointed director's responsibility is to the company and not to the shareholders. Directors have an obligation to act in the company's best interests."
In my opinion, Bill Kenwright has repeatedly misled the fans and shareholders alike, his performance of delivering what is required by Everton is abysmal, his apparent mythomania means he can’t be trusted with Everton's future and leads me to believe that the solution to our current malaise is stirring everyone in the face; Bill Kenwright needs to be removed, both as chairman and from the board along with several of the other passengers within the club.
I find it amazing when a few diehard believers, of the PR bullshit we've had to endure, point across the park and proclaim that mess is somehow a measure of the success of Kenwright's tenure; it's analogous to recommending a garage on the basis that whilst they never actual fix a car they never make it worse. Has nobody ever realised why we aren’t in even greater debt than we are, those amounts of debt that apologists of the Kenwright circus happily point to at Liverpool and Manchester United??? It’s because we have nothing left to borrow against, British banks won’t lend any more so we scurry off to a South African bank and borrow against not just current revenue streams but streams we won’t even receive for another two years!!

Everton supporters need to start showing some of the passion seen across the park and elsewhere; they should be outraged at their own treatment by this board. Sadly, even when it's blatantly obvious they're being shafted, too many of our fans stand there and do nothing, quite a few of the shaftees, some tapping merrily away here on ToffeeWeb, even applaud the shafter when it is to the detriment of the club to which they supposedly support. Having read comments and articles posted on this site by characters such as ‘Sur Jo’ and Richard Dodd, passing themselves off as Evertonians, I have concluded that such folk and opinions have to be a complete wind-up. With specific regards to Richard Dodd I'm just pleased that society is now sufficiently enlightened enough to allow patient inmates access to computer skills courses!

Removing Bill Kenwright is more easily said than done. Accusations of lying would probably clear most of the boardrooms in the country; accusing him of not fulfilling his fiduciary responsibilities, of not acting in the best interests of the business, a legal requirement under the companies act, is equally subjective. Kirkby, for instance, would have added value to the company balance sheet and even though the attendance levels were laughingly optimistic, don’t forget they had to add six fictitious events to make it look respectable, the board members will simply direct complainants to the figures produced by Deloitte which highlighted an increase of £6m on the contribution currently [2008] received from Goodison.

The question is how can Bill Kenwright be removed? If the directors were to undergo an annual assessment on their performance, as they are required to do so, how many would be endorsed as proficient? Just look at Bill Kenwright’s track record, it’s absolutely appalling and, as previously stated, many remain convinced that he is responsible for introducing, and being under the command of, a shadow director and has allowed the presence of a nominee director in the shape of Spurs supporting Robert Earl.

If they could be removed who would you replace them with? Personally, I'm certain you'll all have your opinions on this, the only current member of the board I'd leave in place is Jon Woods; as big an Evertonian as Bill Kenwright proclaims to be but without the bullshit or the baggage, he’s been a reluctant director but I’d like to think he's decent enough to put some of the recent wrongs right.

I'd make Robert Elstone Managing Director, under the strict instruction that no contact be made with the former members of the board or Philip Green. The current CEO is a sports business professional and in my experience has treated all with honesty and respect. I'd ask John Suenson-Taylor, whose disdain for the Kenwright regime is well known, to join the board and a qualified representative from the shareholders association to act on behalf of all minority stakeholders, shareholders and fans, to complete the board and ask the newly formed collective to work towards the sale of the club to an individual or organisation who, without relying on leverage buyout plans, has the capital resources and the best interests of the club at the heart of their business plan, not simply someone who is going to hand over the most money for the shares which, in my opinion, is what you'll get with the make-up of the current board who appear to take their instructions from elsewhere.

Bill Kenwright told the shareholders at the 2004 EGM that he did not own shares for profit or involvement. If only for once such words are to be believed, after spending a decade in his fruitless 24/7 search for investment, he should allow other more competent and better qualified individuals to conclude the process that he appears demonstrably unable to complete. The alternative is to simply accept the position we're in, one where we just wait for the next effectively free, something for nothing, scheme that masquerades in place of a cohesive business plan that would actually promote organic growth.

So, Mike Gaynes, there you have it. You see we all understand that in business some things don't go to plan, but on balance the law of averages states you get some things right, even a broken clock is right twice a day; look at Bill Kenwright's record, that type of performance is impossible. Some people, the type who are unable to face up to the reality of the situation and the media, who haven't the time, inclination or fortitude to ignore the difficulties [they would endure] in exposing the myth of having a good old, holes in my shoes, ex-boys pen toffees supporter at the helm, prefer to ignore the mass of evidence that tells you Bill Kenwright is a liability to our club and needs to go, as soon as possible.


This was written for ToffeeWeb by Colin Fitzpatrick, the ' Chairman ' of KEIOC.

Danny O’Neill
378 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:25:57
You can blame the current manager for yesterday's tactics and team selection.

You can blame the managers for every Saturday that goes wrong.

But you can absolutely blame the the board and should blame the board and the way the club has been run for at least 30 years. Possibly beyond that. Lack of strategic vision and strategy leads to poor long term performance over time.

Keep blaming the worker bees whilst the fat cats prevail.

It's led to the situation that many a manager has tried to deal with and been made scapegoat for.


Nick Page
379 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:26:47
Ian Edwards @372

"You can blame the Board all you want but they don't decide tactics, team selection and subs. They are all down to the manager.

And this is exactly the sort of dull, ill-conceived nonsensical post I continue to see that is so short-term in its thinking, it's quite unbelievable. People like this must struggle remembering what day it is because yesterday was just a blur.

So Ian, give us some ideas for solutions to the problems. What would you do? We've run up against FFP rules and have cashflow issues; we have a stadium to fund and the P&L is a complete mess.

We've had six managers in as many years and yet the same problems that haunted the club 15 years ago are as prevalent today. We've been to one Cup Final since 1995. Yet an underperforming board and management team remain in place, not saying anything.

So your thoughts, please.

Allan Board
380 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:29:02
In all fairness, the gradual decline of Everton is probably the longest drawn out decline in history. Most times it is done and dusted in 4 or 5 year's but this has been going on for 25!
If you keep rolling the dice for long enough, your destruction is inevitable.
The Whole Board Out now!
Tony Abrahams
381 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:29:44
What would Everton have done? That was in response to Ian E, Nick. He’s got a point, none of the last six managers have played 4-4-2, (except Duncan) and football is definitely all about tactics.
Rob Halligan
382 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:32:51
Wow, I’ve heard it all now……………actually attaching some blame to the fans! Mind you, someone also wanted to keep Allardyce, or even wants him back. Says it all really.
Barry Rathbone
383 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:39:18
I'm beginning to think a relegation reset is what's necessary at this club.
Frank Crewe
384 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:43:01
Lost the fans, lost the players, lost the plot, lost his job? Maybe. He's got six weeks to pull his finger out. After the Palace game Lampard was grinning like the Cheshire cat. Well he's not smiling now. He also can't blame the previous managers players. This is now his side so he gets the blame when it goes wrong. If he's bought an actual striker back in the summer he wouldn't even be in this mess. Just like the other half dozen managers who came before him he inexplicably put all his eggs in the DCL basket. For some reason they all seemed to think that inside DCL is an Alan Shearer trying to get out. There isn't.
Brian Murray
385 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:48:44
Jim Lloyd post 335. Count me in 07782552050. Time to act now. Me and Tony abrahams tried and failed to get enough to go the London to derail one of his luvvy theatre productions. Just say when and where.
Ian Edwards
386 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:51:03
Nick 379 and others

Had we won yesterday, no-one on here would be moaning. The reason we lost yesterday was because the Manager, yet again, played Onana and Gueye in central midfield. He also played, yet again, one up front, and, yet again, two wingers that don't create or assist or score more than the odd goal.

Had Lampard played say Davies in front of the back as protection, or some support for Maupay or had Vinagre on the bench, then we might have got a result.

Three points yesterday was what mattered. Not some juvenile bickering about who was sat on the front row of the Directors Box.

Yes... long-term the club might perform better with other custodians but short-term results are more important and that is down to the dullard Lampard.

As for Allardyce. He left us 8th but he was forced out because he wasn't called Allardici.

Colin Malone
387 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:54:10
Eddie # 362.

Well said. Totally agree.

If Frank goes, his coaching team has to go with him. I don't want the nightmare situation where Paul Clement becomes caretaker manager.

Ive seen his portfolio. It stinks.

Martin Mason
388 Posted 13/11/2022 at 14:54:49
Barry@383 I've said many times that Everton FC needed a season with the EPL pressure off them. Problem now is that the Championship is almost as intense now and the pressure to bound straight back would be huge. I think the real answer is to replace the Everton board with people who have the experience of running a successful football club.
Brian Harrison
390 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:10:32
Darren 368

I absolutely agree with every word of your advert for our next manager. Your probably about right with your valuation of money spent on player managers and their coaches costing the club a fortune and when you take in all the redundancy payments a billion wouldn't be far short of what its cost.

Changing managers every 18 months is just madness, but thats what happens when you the wrong managers. As leaving a poor manager in his post when given funds to buy players is not working. I go to the game and say the same thing who is going to score the goals, and how are we going to create chances for us to score goals. I think Lampards tactics has infuriated me more than practically every other manager. Allardyce style wasn't pretty but everybody including the players knew what the plan was. I have no idea what his game plan is and it seems the players have even less idea than I have.

We were told Frank brings the kids through, but didnt see any start against Bournemouth, and he sent Simms and Dobbin on loan. And we he did bother to throw young Cannon on he was more involved in 15 minutes than Maupay was in the 75 minutes he spent on the pitch.

Nick Page
391 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:12:45
Martin @388 - did you watch the Ornstein piece I linked? I know you were an advocate of Kenwright in the past but it's good to see you acknowledge the need for change. The whole club needs some fresh thinking, fans included because I'm sick to death of the bickering and have been for about twenty years. He needs to go and his play mates with him.

Meanwhile at Anfield, looks like Mukesh Ambani, he of Reliance Industries fame and multi-billionaire will be taking over.

If you read Colin's article, 12 years or so ago they were nearly bust. But the gap between us has only widened. Kenwright's managed decline.

Steve Brown
393 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:18:20
Ian @ 386, Onana was pushed further up closer to Iwobi yesterday. He didn’t play as a a CDM next to Gana, which is one of your regular complaints.

That being said, the last game where Lampard played both Gana and Onana as CDMs was Palace home. That went better than the recent games where Onana has changed position.

As an alternative, you propose playing Davies as a CDM instead of Gana? Not at all sure about that one.

You also complain that Lampard only played one upfront - who do you think should parter Maupay up front?

Martin Mason
394 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:20:50
Ian@372 I disagree that many of the things you say are purely a function of the ability of the manager. What you say is true but only within the constraints of strategy determined by the top management and the players obtained by management for the head coach. If the club is run badly with weak finances and poor purchases, then the players available will be less able than those provided at a strong club. Ancelloti was a top manager and couldn't manage Everton so the last person to blame at Everton is the string of hapless coaches that we the fans have demanded. The only aim that fans protests should have is to remove the cancer that is Kenwright and Moshiri and selling the club to somebody who has the vision thing as well as the money.
Gary Johnson
395 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:23:50
See Villa are on the up after swiftly appointing a successful manager to replace the former player with potential……as always, we sit with our thumb up our arse.
Matt Henderson
396 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:32:58
So some people think if we play 442 or change a few tactics we will all of a sudden be a good team. Maybe some changes in tactics/managers could move the dial slightly and maybe a change of manager is required if it means we will be 2 to 3 places better off and safe at the end of the season.

BUT how anyone can have watched this Club fail repeatedly over the years, trying several managers and different players, and not conclude the core issue lies elsewhere and higher up is astonishing! Jesus Christ could become manager tomorrow and at best we would end up 14th. If anyone has any desire to have any sort of success in the future then we need to address the main issues. How many years do we have to be shit for and how many managers and tactics need to be tried before it is clear to EVERYONE that the core issue is at the top of the Club!

Mike Price
397 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:38:54
If only we had a Danny Ings!
Coady’s words are damming, reading between the lines, the players aren’t at it or professional in training and that is showing up on the pitch.
There are lots of likeable people who know a lot about football, there are lots on this site but that does not make you an elite manager. We’ve not got a proper manager, we’ve got a terrible squad, we’re financially limited and referees/VAR give us nothing. It will be a miracle if we survive without some of these factors changing.
Dave Abrahams
398 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:42:02
Nick (377), Thanks for showing that brilliant essay on Kenwright by Colin Fitzpatrick over ten years ago.

A lot of fans will still not accept this illustration of a proven liar and will still defend him, one question I would like to ask and receive an answer to is : How any Everton shares did Kenwright hold when he was appointed as an Everton director?

Barry Rathbone
399 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:44:46
Martin 388

I don't go along with the populist view it's the board, all boards are unpopular unless clubs are winning. A Mansoor type would make a difference but it isn't going to happen so we're stuck with Kenwright/Mansoor and all that goes with financial middling types and need to adapt accordingly.

The answer is the same regardless of what division we're in but without the Prem pressure it's probably easier. Getting real about where we are as a club and binning NSNO and the "school of science" notions from pre-history would be an inevitable result of relegation. BUT it would allow a manager who can build a proper, hungry team on the cheap to do his thing unburdened by historic mill stones.

The rut of recruiting waning ex stars has killed us and it is a feeble nod to memories that included record goal scorers, world cup winners and champions. But these buggers come here put their feet up and milk the club dry we should never buy from Utd&co ever again.

Be great if Frank can build a young hungry side without being relegated but he did sign Dele Ali.

James O'Connell
400 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:52:49
I'm just gutted that every season it's the same script. I don't have any confidence at the start of any match that we will beat the opposition, I don't think the players do either. The failure to bring in a quality striker in the last window is unforgivable and will probably get us relegated.
Mick O'Malley
401 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:58:11
Steve Brown @393 absolutely spot on,, I don’t want to see Tom Davies in a blue shirt again, he what is holding this club back, absolutely bang average, run of the mill and contributes absolutely fuck all, The formation against Palace brought the best out in the players, a 4231 and as you said who will partner Maupay in a 442, surely they can’t be thinking Rondon? We have to bring in a centre forward and a winger who contributes, time to scour Europe cos they are out there it’s just we never find them,
Peter Jansson
402 Posted 13/11/2022 at 15:59:26
Frank has to go. We must get a manager that is capable of buying players that can play offensive football and score.

This will lead to nothing. And I am still irritated over why we bought Gana Gueye. We need a midfield that can pass the ball forward.

Peter Jansson
403 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:05:24
400# the striker is not the problem ff sake. We have a problem playing the ball over the center line. The rest of the team is not capable of getting the ball to a striker. I am not so sure Levandowski had made big of a difference here.
Bill Gall
404 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:09:16
Some people seem to think that I am a supporter of B.K. as I don't blame him for the performances on the pitch, I am not, my gripe is that he should have gone before Moshiri bought the club.

With, as has been documented of his failings Why did Moshiri allow him to remain as chairman when he became owner of the club, and don't tell me it was one of the demands he made for his shares as Moshiri could have bought enough shares from other shareholders to become Owner.

As has been said numerous times the club needs overhauling from the top downwards, so isn't it the Owners responsibility to see this is done or is he just sitting back knowing someone else will take the blame. As Owner he can hire or fire anyone he wants. and he seems to do that with I believe 7 managers come and gone. Why doesn't he realize that the problem may not be on the managerial side.

Pete Jeffries
405 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:23:44
I would agree with the lack of proper coaching you can spot it all over the pitch
For example Alex Iwobi - god luvs a trier - and he's not one of the main culprits
He is young and runs around a lot but he needs to be coached especially in tackling and shooting because yesterday after a bright start he went missing
He should learn how to shoot properly with power instead of just side-footing on goal
And yes he did score one recently I hear you say
But defensively he also let Antony walk in front to head the third goal
He has got more to offer with some good coaching
What do the so-called coaches do all week ?

Sean Roe
406 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:29:44
It's not that difficult to find a new manager, just spray the name of your choice on the stadium and hey presto. That's how we have ended up with the current one, such is the ineptitude of the current owners.
Dave Abrahams
407 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:32:30
Bill (404), Was there a reason why Mr.Moshiri only bought 49.99 % of the shares when he acquired Everton,did this stop him from appointing his own chairman or maybe Kenwright stipulated that he had to remain chairman as part of the sale of the club.
Mike Gwyer
408 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:41:03
Ian Edwards #various

You continuously talk absolute fucking bollocks.

(1) Watch the whole 90 minutes and then comment on the game.

(2) When you have a pop at matchgoing Everton fans, make sure you get all the facts right before you start using words like racism.

If you had watched the game, you would have seen that we were on top till Pickford had a wobble. Confidence gone and we are then chasing the game. It then became a fucking shit show, but you can't single out individual players because all 11 went from playing okay to being total shite.

Everton fans post-match were well fucked off and had a right to vent their anger at any or all Everton players, but no racism took place. Iwobi was concerned about the safety of his family members that were amongst the Everton fans so please don't try and create an agenda to suit your warped mind regarding travelling blues. Everton fans know how to behave.

James Head
409 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:41:04
The time has come for our disparate fans to unite and drive real change at our once proud club. The phoney that is Kenwright has got to be driven out once and for all, along with his finger puppet, Denise Barrett-Baxendale and the mute, Graeme '30 pieces of silver' Sharp.

Ideally Moshiri will sell out to investors who would put in place the correct infrastructure in the boardroom. Can any of us imagine the Club actually having some defined ambitions and direction rather than the current rudderless chaotic mess?

The Kenwright propaganda machine will be in full flow now to try and stem the rising anger. His appointed acolytes will be scouring the forums under assumed identities to subvert any dissent and to promote division and his pals in the media will be asked to distract and deflect.

The very future of our club is in real jeopardy, let's come together and demand change.


Ian Edwards
410 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:42:15
Steve @393.

Onana is expected to protect the back 4 and get forward, ie, box to box, but he performs neither very well.

Whenever Davies has played, he invariably stays behind the ball which is something Idrissa Gueye doesn't do. He hares all over the pitch and, when we concede, you can see him racing back ahead of the ball and out of position.

As for two up front: whichever two forwards in the club are fit. Regardless of age.

Rob Halligan
411 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:44:20
Mike # 408. Well said mate.
Bill Watson
412 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:45:45
Dave #407,

Different Bill but I can answer your question.

Around 5% of small shareholders are unknown, probably deceased, so at 49.9% Moshiri couldn't be outvoted and so had total control.

Danny Baily
413 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:46:50
James @409,

Pushing Kenwright out of a nothing role won't make the slightest bit of difference to our on-the-field fortunes. We're a poor side with a poor manager.

Bobby Mallon
414 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:47:52
We're our own worst enemy, IMO:

The fans saw the power they had to influence results by supporting the team last season and now they're straight back to abusing the players and wondering why we're shit.

Is this a fair statement? Discuss.

Ian Edwards
415 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:49:41
Spot on, Danny 409.

Blaming Kenwright for the results at Bournemouth is just silly.

Tony Abrahams
416 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:49:51
Having been sick for most of the week, I decided to go for a walk, and during my time out of the house, Everton were never far from my thoughts.

I drove past Bramley-Moore Dock, parked my car by the Crowne-Plaza, and went on my favourite walk. Onto the beautiful plaza, Liver Building to my left, Ferry Terminal on my right, I walked along the river to what should have been our ground at the King's Dock, but is instead now a concert arena.

A little child was bouncing Kangaroo style, across the bridge that takes you towards the Albert Dock, and her grandmother said, “she's got too much energy.” “I've been sick all week,” I said before adding, “so trust me when I say that energy has got to be the finest thing any of us can have!”

"I wish Frank Lampard was here" I thought. We could have a great conversation, and I'd be able to tell him to forget about tactics, and just get his players to play with loads of energy instead!

When I was walking back, I instinctively thought of our new ground. "At least it's on the waterfront" I thought, and the water has always been our city's greatest source of “energy”

Driving home, I went past our soon to be new ground again. Fuck me I thought, if FSG, want over £3 Billion for Liverpool, how on gods earth can't Everton be sold for around £1 Billion?

Somebody somewhere must know some clever financial people, who must be aware that getting Everton, with an iconic new ground, on an iconic waterfront, in an iconic city, that has really found its feet again, for around £1Billion, could be the bargain of the 21st Century... 🤞🤞

Bobby Mallon
417 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:52:14
Mike Gwyer: not all away-going Everton fans know how to behave.
Ian Edwards
418 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:54:25
Mike Gwyer 408.

Not only are you offensive and abusive you are also a liar. At no time did I ever accuse any Everton fan of being racist.

If your abuse is an example of how you conduct yourself as an away fan, then you should do the club a favour and stay at home.

Nick Page
419 Posted 13/11/2022 at 16:58:48

Barry Hesketh
421 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:05:02
Bobby @414

It's such an extremely unfair statement on all levels.

Any football team that lets its own fans down with a lack of effort is guaranteed to take stick. Apparently prior to the game kicking-off yesterday, the Evertonians were loud and proud in their vocal support for the team.

James Head
422 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:05:45
Danny #413,

You are part of the problem. I expect anyone advocating Kenwright out to be shot down by the usual stooges.

Dave Abrahams
423 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:06:25
Bill (412),

You are always welcome to answer any of my questions and put me wise, thanks for answering that one.

Could it be then that Kenwright wouldn't sell unless he remained as chairman and retained custody of the club?

It also seems to me that Mr Moshiri was in awe of Kenwright, although only God knows why.

Thanks again, Bill.

Matt Henderson
424 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:07:46
Danny @413,

If we had different decision-makers in place, it might maximise our chances of getting the next management appointment right and not suffering Groundhog Day year after year.

The incumbents have proved repeatedly that they aren't very good at this aspect of running the club – and that must be clear to all as a minimum?

Danny Baily
426 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:11:11
Matt 424,

It wasn't Bill with the spray paint outside Goodison demanding Lampard's appointment. It was the fans.

Tony Hill
427 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:14:24
The situation is concerning, Barry, @425.

It can be hoped, however, that someone or some group/entity will be attracted by the sort of vision which Tony indicates @416, albeit at a far lower price.

Bill Gall
428 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:21:50
Dave @407,

The club was never sold – the only thing that changed hands was shares, with the owner of the most shares having the biggest say or, the most clout in the organization, and that was Moshiri.

Since then, his holding company holds more than 95% of the shares and so it is his responsibility to the remaining shareholders that the club is run successfully – and if it isn't, as now, to do something about it.

That is my argument: it is his fault that we are in this mess. If he cannot see where the problems are, he has ignored them.

James Head
429 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:22:29
Danny #426,

You can be sure if it had been Kenwright outside Goodison demanding Lampard's appointment, the cost of the spray paint wouldn't have come out of his pocket.

Just so you know, I don't think Lampard and his staff are up to the job either, but the root of all our woes is the directionless leadership in the boardroom.

Kenwright Out!

Mike Gwyer
430 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:27:01
Bobby #417.

I'm sensing that you have had an incident concerning travelling blues??

We had a history with violence and disorder but, as with most clubs, those days have long gone. For me, other than fans being totally pissed off with how Everton are performing, it's normally a good day out.

I'm 62 and have been travelling to away games since the late '70s.

Will Mabon
431 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:28:29
Barry @ 420,

Many items of potential concern but accurate information is hard to identify or discern. Things not yet quite so negative as the tone there, I believe.

What I'm not enamoured with in the linked article are the council's purported costs of "exploring" the earlier loan. Sounds to me a bit like the legal "costs" for the new Wembley Stadium.

Peter Jansson
432 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:37:53
What is Onana going to do? He at least can play football. With Gana Gueye, he has to go forward. Who else will? Gana will never produce goals.

But since Gana has lost his old terrier ball-winning abilities, he does not protect enough cover for the back 4. He rather creates problems by losing the ball.

Iwobi does not have enough defensive capabilities, that creates instability. So Gana is no offense and Iwobi no defence. That will not work in the long term and is bound to be a losing strategy.

Onana is an all-around player that will look a lot better around a little better players than today.

Joe Digney
433 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:46:19
Adesanya gets given an Everton top this week from meatball Molly and then goes on to lose his belt last night after a 3 year reign… this club truly is a curse 😂.
Andy Crooks
434 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:50:19
Peter, Jansson @ 403, spot on.

No striker in the world could score enough goals in the current Everton team. We are not missing loads of chances.

We have two centre-backs who defend like Kettering Town at Man City in the cup. Life-on-the-line defending with not a creative thought in their minds.

Gana… fuck me, if he did anything creative I'd faint. Not his job? What is then? Stopping 3-0 defeats against the second worst team in the Premier League?

The coach has no confidence in his team. A point scrounged is welcome. Next step is the team have no confidence in the coach. Next step is relegation.

Dull, uninspired, defeatist, negative, weak, cowardly. Frank and the lads make you proud.

Rob Halligan, I have not the words to describe you, John Rafferty, Danny O'Neill and all the travelling Blues I have never met. Everton is bred in your bones.

Mike Gwyer
435 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:50:28
Ian Edwards,

Offensive, sometimes. Abusive, nope and a liar, never; well definitely not concerning Everton games.

See your posts #77 and #130, there are definite racist comments in those posts especially #77, I mean, does it matter if people are black?

However, get the tickets and travel to an away game, you will enjoy it.

Joseph Terrence
436 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:55:01
I'll tell you what – this Marco Silva fella has Fulham playing some beautiful football and is taking the game to Man Utd at Old Trafford. Something Everton are incapable of doing. If only we had the chance to back him...
Ian Edwards
437 Posted 13/11/2022 at 17:59:38

That post does not state or imply racism. There was an abusive shout at Iwobi. The video clearly shows in bottom left corner pushing and shoving and a face-off with two black fans. I suggested that they were possibly relatives of Iwobi and may have been unhappy at the abusive shout.

The same video also shows Iwobi talking to the Ref and pointing at that standoff.

No racism hinted at, implied or stated. Only in your tiny brain.

Jeff Armstrong
438 Posted 13/11/2022 at 18:00:23
The Fulham game is at Craven Cottage, but yes Fulham do play some decent attacking football and make lots of chances, Willian has been excellent in the games I have watched.

They've got an attacking left back too, Robinson I think his name is... 😗

Mike Gwyer
439 Posted 13/11/2022 at 18:25:04
Andy Crooks,

I've all the time in the world for your posts – and yeah, you do sound pissed.

Got to say though your comment: "We are not missing loads of chances." Sorry, Andy, but yes we are...

Spurs away, 1st half, Gray and Onana. Both one-on-ones.

Leceister home: Owobi and Calvert-Lewin. Come on – two sitters.

Newcastle away: Calvert-Lewin first-half header, should've scored.

Fulham away: Gray superb cross. Calvert-Lewin rises well, only had to toe it in and it hits his shin bone.

Bournemouth away x 2: Davies and Maupay should really both score.

As we know, goals win games and for shit, we just ain't scoring.

Will Mabon
440 Posted 13/11/2022 at 18:40:32
Mike, we're missing most of the few we make, probably describes it.
Dave Abrahams
441 Posted 13/11/2022 at 18:49:40
Bill (428),

“The club was never sold, the only thing that changed hands was shares.”

Splitting hairs there, Bill, Mr Moshiri now holds 94.1% of the shares he never bought, so he should be able to be rid of Kenwright as Everton's Chairman but chooses not to do so.

I've got to admit he is being very naive then unless Kenwright has some sort of Svengali hold on him. It could be the other way round, though, if Moshiri got hold of all those shares without buying them!!

Tony Abrahams
442 Posted 13/11/2022 at 18:51:47
My £1 Billion vision, Tony H, has also included into the price the money for the stadium being built, mate!

There's a few contradictions in that article, IMO, Barry, but the same author has written another piece about the same topic, and another one, about another of our shadow directors (not from the Phillip Green era) sisters, who has just had her Oligarch sanctions removed.

Everything Colin Fitzpatrick wrote was true, and yet the two-bit actor remained. He never had his shares for profit, but profit he did, and if he's played thousands of Evertonians for fools, maybe it's true what they say, that it's easier to be kidded, rather than to actually admit that you've been kidded?

I think both Moshiri and Usmanov had that vision, Tony, but made one absolutely fatal mistake. A mistake that has been a curse on Everton since he lied, since he begged, since he stole, and since he borrowed. Please god let him now be on borrowed time.

Bobby Mallon
443 Posted 13/11/2022 at 19:32:07
Matt Henderson @396: I agree wholeheartedly.

You only have to look at Newcastle. Now Ashley was slightly better than Kenwright in that he didn't want to stay as chairman. But look at their takeover. Things done properly.

Let's not forget they were relegated and came back. Kenwright should have walked and Moshiri should have appointed a whole new board to run the club and left the buying of players to the manager.

Ian Edwards
444 Posted 13/11/2022 at 19:36:09
In our last few games, goal attempts against are:

Spurs 21
Newcastle 16
Fulham 24
Leicester 22

In the Premier League we have only had more goal attempts than our opponents in two games! They were in August at home to Forest and away to Villa.

We have allowed our opponents shots at goal in double figures in every game this season. Even Fleetwood.

In each of the following games, the opponent had 20 or more goal attempts:


We have scored 11 league goals.

Our shots on target rate in each league game are:

Chelsea 4
Villa 4
Forest 8
Brentford 7
Leeds 2
Liverpool 3
West Ham 2
Southampton 5
Man Utd 2
Tottenham 0
Newcastle 0
Palace 6
Fulham 4
Leicester 2
Bournemouth 3

The above suggests we aren't preventing chances being created against us, and we struggle to create or score.

Taking away the Palace and Fulham games, we have had 7 shots on target since we won at Southampton.

Apart from the Palace game, we have been shite.

Brian Wilkinson
445 Posted 13/11/2022 at 19:39:22
Some are asking why are Newcastle doing now what we should have done a number of years back.

Here is just a small snippet from Newcastle fans website, The Mag:

Mike Ashley held Newcastle United back so badly – If you ever doubted then look at this

What Newcastle have done is not left Ashley on as a chairman, they have brought their own team in to run the football club.

Man City did not leave their previous chairman and fellow board members on the board. They brought their own team in, professionals, top of their game at running a football club.

What have Everton done? Left the previous chairman and board at the club.

Newcastle and Man City are heading in the right direction; it is time those sat on the fence have a good look at why we have been left behind. You can blame countless managers, countless players, but only one person has been running the show for well over 20 years.

Enough is enough, Kenwright and the board out.

Nick Page
446 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:16:19
Exactly, Brian.

Ashley read it all wrong, but he knows how to make money. Still, he made a pig's ear out of Newcastle cos he was in it to increase his wealth.

Basically, he read it totally wrong and the fans there, to their credit, demanded he go. Our lot are still hanging on to every word that Kenwright says. How embarrassing.

I thought scousers weren't this naive and stupid? Certainly not trusting of a man who pretends to be an Evertonian, with no money yet has enriched himself beyond most fans' wildest dreams. He should put every penny of those share sales back into EitC.

It's an absolutely pathetic state of affairs and it's not helped by a passive fanbase who are so brainwashed they can't tell their arse from their elbow. Time to get angry, Evertonians, and remove those that have taken us all for granted for so so long.

Tony Hill
447 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:25:50
Tony @442, Moshiri is going to have to take a hit. The project might well be particularly attractive to a suitable buyer in those circumstances and with the prospects you've pointed out.
Joe McMahon
448 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:30:28
Things have got that desperate I think the only thing that will save us is a Saudi Takeover. City and Newcastle fans aren't complaining are they. If only Sheikh Mansour approached Everton before City oh yeah he did. Nice One Bill!
Brian Murray
449 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:33:45
It’s a small world. I commented on the sky interview that jaz bal ( Everton advisory board spokesman) and I’ve just bumped into him on a train. He was a bit worse for wear as had been a rememberence day out. I told him in no uncertain terms what was he playing at saying he is happy with the board and kenright. In his defence he said he wasn’t on his a game and jet lagged after returning from the blues us tour. I suggested if he’s there just to pay lip service just stand down. Just being honest with him.
Brian Murray
450 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:33:46
It’s a small world. I commented on the sky interview that jaz bal ( Everton advisory board spokesman) and I’ve just bumped into him on a train. He was a bit worse for wear as had been a rememberence day out. I told him in no uncertain terms what was he playing at saying he is happy with the board and kenright. In his defence he said he wasn’t on his a game and jet lagged after returning from the blues us tour. I suggested if he’s there just to pay lip service just stand down. Just being honest with him.
Brian Wilkinson
451 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:43:15
Well said, Brian.

Did no-one else find it strange that, on the evening of the protest, a Fans Advisory Board member was interviewed on TV, stood close to the Liver Building?

Now I wonder how that could have happened, and the defending of the board?

That Fan Advisory Board was put in place for one reason, to do nothing but shift the blame away from the board.

People pre-selected by Everton FC.

Barry Rathbone
452 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:45:43
Brian 445,

I find the Newcastle comparison puzzling. Mike Ashley is another middling money man not in the same league as game-changer owners like Abramovich, Mansoor and their new owners.

Whatever issues Ashley's lack of money has caused, it matters not a jot to the new owners – they financed a bright new manager plus a centre-forward for £70M, a centre-half for £37M, and a left-back for £17.5M!!!

The place is vibrant with ambition because every man and his dog knows, with the wealth available, this is just the start.

As ever, clubs without mega-rich benefactors push chairs around the deck of the Titanic – it's a game they all play because they can't afford other options. If we get China or someone to buy us, we'll stop playing that game – just like Newcastle.

Derek Powell
453 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:54:55

Worth a read

Martin Mason
454 Posted 13/11/2022 at 20:56:14
Barry@399 Populist is when nearly everybody accepts it as fact you don't. The evidence is overwhelming that clubs with strong boards and strong finances also have the best teams. Not always but pretty much so. Everton are a poor club overwhelmed with debt in other words a small club.
Brian Murray
455 Posted 13/11/2022 at 21:00:35
Brian w. Post 451, He is one and the same fella who was interviewed on sky the same day. I await his email response. Won’t hold my breath. Probably got his shoe shine box out ready for the next meeting
Danny O’Neill
456 Posted 13/11/2022 at 21:13:01
Andy Crooks, thank you for the compliment.

I'm no better than you or any Evertonian. It's a birthright. I never knew any different. Never have done.

My middle brother was fortunate to witness the 80s success. My youngest (the sensible one) just about remembers the 95 FA Cup win. My son has seen nothing but the near misses of the League Cup Semi Final at Chelsea that we attended and, later penalty win their in the FA Cup Jagielka penalty win against United at Wembley and the disappointment of the 2009 Cup Final. They both attended as I waited anxiously outside the stadium.

Their time will come, as will mine. As will ours.

Anyway, is there a link to the Fans Advisory Board? Do they have a place where we can communicate with them?

I don't care about Newcastle or anyone else. Just Everton. Always Everton.

Brian Wilkinson
460 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:06:44

Brian Wilkinson
461 Posted 13/11/2022 at 00:06:44
How much serious money do we need Barry, we are shackled by ffp, only so much we can spend.

The owner has ploughed more than enough money in the transfer kitty, he has bought shares to offset debt, has given interest free loans for previous high interest rates we were paying, has ploughed money into getting our new stadium off the ground.

We have had countless Managers, d.o.fs, players, most gone.

I hardly regards 27 years as rushing to beat Kenwright with a stick.

No other club anywhere would have let this go on for this long.

I just cannot get my head round how some can still defend our Chairman.

Barry Hesketh
462 Posted 14/11/2022 at 00:20:11
Ian @364
I think that the video in this link answers the question you posed. Frank was under pressure and probably hadn't calmed down so soon after the match. The Chelsea thing was just a slip of the tongue.


Darren Hind
468 Posted 14/11/2022 at 07:54:33
Wow... just read those figures put up by Ian Edwards.

Ian takes a bit of a kicking on here. Yes he is far more likely to show up when things are going badly, but at least he has a grasp on the situation.

I said before this game that the only difference between our Carabao Cup hammering and our recent Premier League games was the shots Pickford has been saving. The sitters missed against us and the number of shots coming back off our woodwork had finally ended up in our net... When I said more hammerings would follow, I honestly thought I would have to wait more than a couple of hours.

People can number chances we have "created", but most of the chances we have had were through errors in the opponents’ defences (look at the Spurs game again).

We create fuck-all. The fact that we are still bemoaning chances missed weeks ago is testament to that. Players who the chances fall to have the added pressure of knowing we are highly unlikely to get another.

People have got to stop running away with the idea that our defence is "sorted" and start actually looking at what is happening. If Mitrovic had brought his shooting boots, or Antonee Robinson had any ability to go with that breakneck speed, we'd have been looking at 6 losses in 7. And that is without the 5-6 people we are regularly told "should never wear the shirt again".

The Gana who came back is not the same tackling machine who left. He couldn't blow a match out let alone extinguish fires. Onana manages to play long periods with his head up his arse. McNeil and Tarkowski seem hellbent on reminding us why they were relegated in their last jobs – Doucoure has been doing that for years.

Coady's amazing diagonal balls resemble exocet missiles. They may be accurate, but he telegraphs them by taking 10 seconds to set himself first. Those receiving these rockets are generally marked by the time he has played them. His type of pass used to be called the Thank-you-very-much ball... and what is Maupay if he isn't Tony Cottee without the goals?

Improved??? What, is the kit nicer or something?

Thelwell and Lampard are beginning to make Koeman and Walsh look like a couple of slick operators – and some want to give them another window?

Stop the hamster wheel – I wanna get off!

Rob Halligan
469 Posted 14/11/2022 at 08:29:41
Brian # 450 and Brian # 451.

A member of the Fans Advisory Board is a regular on the club’s official coaches for away games, and always travels on the same coach as me, but I won't give his name out on here. However, if either of you two, or anybody else, would like me to ask him anything, then let me know and I will put any questions or comments to him next away game.

If members of the FAB want to sit on this board and represent us, then they clearly must expect to be approached by us with problems we have.

I remember when the last FAB members were elected, and many asked why didn't I put myself forward. Simple answer was that I probably would have been ejected from the first meeting I attended, as I no doubt would have ripped into Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale, (I know they don't attend the meeting by the way), and I don't think that's what the club want, board members being ripped into.

Anyway, let's get the ball rolling, as this is now an ideal opportunity to get our voices heard, hopefully at the very top of the club.

Danny O’Neill
470 Posted 14/11/2022 at 09:08:53
I think that's the point, Rob. Get our voices heard.

They are there to give us a voice, to listen, collect thoughts and present them to the club.

I'll put my thoughts together and send them to you. Hopefully you know I'll act in the strictest of confidence.

You've given me an early morning Monday laugh. I can just imagine you walking into the first meeting only to be escorted out under duress 5 minutes later!!!

I would like to be involved, but I'm not sure I'd get everyone's vote. But happy to be involved in helping with the FAB and wider messaging. As you say, let's get some momentum going.

Let's actually try to help the Fans Advisory Board. I think the main thing is to open it up to allow us access to voice opinion. At the moment, to people like me, it seems unreachable. That would be my initial feedback, but I might be missing something obvious.

Those privileged to be on that board can then filter and present the voice and concerns of the supporters.

I think the focus here is to force this to work. Not criticise it. And force the club to listen. Optimistic maybe, but that's just me in general.

Rob Halligan
471 Posted 14/11/2022 at 09:14:46
Wow Danny, 5 minutes. I was more expecting to be removed after 5 seconds!!

I walk into the room carrying a banner KENWRIGHT OUT, and am immediately asked to leave the room!

Brian Wilkinson
472 Posted 14/11/2022 at 09:25:21
I would not make 5 seconds, Rob.

I said to a few, you or Danny would have been a good choice for the Fans Advisory Board; unfortunately neither of you are yes-men, so that's a no-goer.

Me, Derek and Jim have thought about the Just Stop Oil approach and gatecrashing the meeting, tying ourselves to a post and seeing how quick Bill gets the bolt cutters out, before removing us, kicking and screaming. :-)

Sam Hoare
473 Posted 14/11/2022 at 09:39:01
It sounds like Lampard will get some more time. And I can understand why: we are in desperate need of stability and consistency. But as I've said before giving more time only works if it is to the right manager. Is Lampard the right manager? I see little evidence to suggest he is.

I was one of a minority who was very underwhelmed by his time at Chelsea (the worst points-per-game record of any manager in their last 20 years) or at Derby (where they struggled to create chances despite having the likes of Mount and Wilson). I didn't quite see the overwhelming attraction beyond the big name, which has surely been proven the biggest fallacy in football by now?!

This season at Everton has been really bad. We've scored the second least in the league and our goals conceded would be far worse if it weren't for Pickford and the woodwork coming to our rescue countless times. The stats Ian Edwards puts up @444 are alarming and indicative of a team with no control and who are not getting any better.

It's also worth remembering that Lampard has brought in a fair amount of these players too, at least 5 of the starting XI on Saturday were his. Arguably our 2 best players this season (Pickford and Iwobi) were already here.

I imagine that the board will give Lampard more time but unless he gets at least 4 points from Wolves (h), Man City (a) and Brighton (h) then he'll surely be gone with an 11-day break to bed in a new manager (probably Martinez if Kenwright gets his way) before the crucial home game to Southampton.

Matt Henderson
475 Posted 14/11/2022 at 09:53:24
Whatever anyone's views on whether Frank should go or not, I think it is fair to at least say he is at risk.

Given that, what do we think the chances are that the owner and board are currently doing some contingency planning, compiling a short list etc, and determining availability so that, should Frank be sacked, they can act decisively and quickly to appoint a replacement?

Probably nil and the task of installing a new manager will take months and be influenced by spray painting on a wall rather than a structured and informed decision based on effective due diligence.

Maybe Frank does have to go but, unless we change the decision-makers at the top of the club as well, it will be the same again in 12 months.

Brian Harrison
477 Posted 14/11/2022 at 10:04:03
Sam @474,

You say you can understand why the club will give Lampard more time, but suggest if we don't get 4 points from our next 3 games, he goes. You say we need stability and consistency; I totally agree but Frank is producing neither.

I knew we don't create or score many but Ian Edwards in post 44 highlights just how woeful we are, and yet there are still some who think we need to stick with Frank. He has bought 8 players, his football is worse than Allardyce or Benitez, I think for the first time in all the years I can't remember being less excited to watch Everton.

Steve Brown
481 Posted 14/11/2022 at 11:13:18
Ian @410,

I know you hate it but I would have a tight two central midfielders with Iwobi ahead of them – the right combination? Garner, Davies, Gana, Onana… go figure.

We simply don't have a capable second forward to play with Maupay when Calvert-Lewin is injured, so Iwobi has to push higher. It is good to see Tom Cannon on the bench, but we'd be doing him no favours by throwing him in at the deep end. As for a forward line of Maupay and Rondon, not for me!

Our wingers are unproductive, one-dimensional, and do not contribute enough in goals or assists. McNeil was obviously signed to get to the by-line and provide crosses for Calvert-Lewin, but that hasn't got out the starting block. He is also massively lacking confidence.

We need a winger and a forward urgently in January, and I would sell just about anyone in the squad to get them.

By the way, the posts claiming you accused Everton fans of racism are total bollocks. It is entirely clear what you said so ignore it.

Raymond Fox
487 Posted 14/11/2022 at 15:41:05
With the money spent on players (if that's any criterion), we shouldn't be down in the bottom 4, maybe 8th to 14th.

It's a safe bet at the season's end that the Top 6 will be ocupied by the usual 6. Why? Because they have all the advantages to attract the star players that we haven't had for years.

I don't care who is on the board – with the exception of one with countless billions to spend – it won't change. Oh I forgot, that's out the window now with these FFP regulations.

Where we have fallen down is spotting stars very early in their careers at a time when they would sign for us. Martinez managed to spot Lukaku, I'm not sure if he can take credit for Stones.

That's one area that we need to improve radically.

Mark Ryan
488 Posted 14/11/2022 at 16:16:09
So Ray @ 499 talks about not spotting talent at its earliest stages.

How can Millwall unearth Zian Flemming for less than £2M? That lad played for Ajax so he is hardly hiding under a bushel.

Why didn't our scouts look at him and say "Wow, get this lad in. He can score, two-footed, 6'-3" and knows where the back of the net is. He's a Number 10 yes but let's get him turn him into an out-and-out striker.

No, we sign Maupay, a 4'-5" striker who is far from prolific.

Have you seen this Millwall lad? I look at some of the talent getting snapped up by other clubs and wonder what on earth goes on at our club in terms of talent spotting.

Bill Gall
489 Posted 14/11/2022 at 18:13:39
Just read Dermot Gallagher's remarks on Everton v Bournemouth incidents.

2nd goal should have been stopped for a head injury and the tackle on Onana a yellow, he said the other player's foot was not up high.

What did we get, a goal against and no booking, and the ref gets another game.

Brian Murray
494 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:31:54
Rob @469.

I mentioned on another thread I met the fans representative who shall remain nameless (heard that phrase somewhere before) on the train on Sunday.

I questioned his disgraceful remarks on Sky which he says he regrets. Told him bluntly if he just going to pay lip service then step down and stop wasting everyone's time.

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