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Big incentive for Dyche to keep Everton in the Premier League

| 07/02/2023 94comments  |  Jump to last

Sean Dyche stands to collect a £3.5m bonus if he saves Everton from relegation to the Championship this season according to reports.

The 51-year-old former Burnley boss was appointed as the Blues' new manager a week ago and already has three points under his belt thanks to an excellent performance in his debut match against Arsenal on Saturday.

Everton beat the clear League leaders 1-0 thanks to a second-half goal by James Tarkowski but missed chances by Abdoulaye Doucouré and Dominic Calvert-Lewin in the first period showed that it could have been a more handsome victory on the day.

The reports don't detail whether Dyche's initial salary was lower than it might have been without the bonus but there is a suggestion that he could also stand to make more the higher up the table Everton finish.

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The financial incentives for the club to remain in the Premier League are massive and it would be well worth the outlay on bonuses to Dyche if he is able to fulfil his initial brief of keeping Everton in the top flight.

Original Source: Daily Mail  

Reader Comments (94)

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John Keating
1 Posted 07/02/2023 at 19:47:45
Only thing that matters is that we stay up and get sorted so that next season and the season after and the season after we don't get in this ridiculous situation.

It's a shame that someone gets a "bonus" on top of a wage most of us can only dream of but, compared to what we would lose if the worst happens, this bonus is nothing.

It's also a shame that we have to pay someone so much to get massively overpaid footballers to do what should come automatically and naturally to them.

Jay Harris
2 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:04:16
Agree John.

The bonus should be for getting us into the CL places not avoiding relegation.

Neil Thomas
3 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:16:56
Ain’t that supposed to be his job
Joe McMahon
4 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:33:35
Exactly Neil, he's laughing as got a big pay off for being sacked. Sean's contract was improved 7 months before Burnley sacked him.
Tony Abrahams
5 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:47:18
We might have a manager, who has said he will take a lot less wages, but will take a massive bonus instead? But only if he keeps the club in the EPL, of course.
Dave Abrahams
6 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:48:49
John (1), a lot of sense there John and you’d think with the ridiculous wages young footballers would be breaking their balls to make it to the top and get a load “ readies” every week, instead average players get get this kind of money without breaking their backs playing in this money loaded heaven called the premier league, and hardly any of them are grateful for the life they have but think it is their right and clubs pamper them and let them get away with this behaviour, no wonder many of us fans are getting fed up with these players and the professional game of football itself, well at the top level anyway.
Kevin Molloy
7 Posted 07/02/2023 at 20:54:36
if it was Allardyce you could add another nought to that.
John Keating
8 Posted 07/02/2023 at 21:07:00
I did read somewhere he signed a 2 1/2 year deal at 5 million a year.
Dennis Stevens
9 Posted 07/02/2023 at 21:08:07
Weren't we paying Moyes double that 10 years ago?
Ray Mia
10 Posted 07/02/2023 at 21:12:24
I've genuinely started watching Forrest Green...

I'm pleased for Dyche...
I could go on about a return to values and all of that...

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to the match... But something got broken in me recently, maybe age and cynicism, it's all the money, it's Usmanov, it's The Saudi's, it's the WC in Qatar... It's The Premier League, it's Man City pissing all over the rules, it's Klopp and his self righteousness, it's our 32500 managers and coaches in 2mths. It's Sammy Lee. It's Ancelotti walking out on us after tickling our balls... it's Benitez... It's the new stadium in Kirby, or Otterspool, or Tesco's or whatever-the-f*ck...

I'm exhausted.

Oh yeah, the absolutely shit kit and the totally random sponsors.

It was actually going for Bielsa.

Don't get me wrong, well done for beating Arteta and his turncoat Linekar-denial history wiping shit-for-brains face...

But I'm supporting Forrest Green and I'm going to be trying one of those 'The Vegan Burgers'

Ray Mia
11 Posted 07/02/2023 at 21:17:30
Oh yeah... There's also the discovery this week that the squad don't train with shin pads and don't wear the right socks, and all wear snoods and gloves...

Jesus H Christ...

And we all wonder why we are in a relegation fight...

Robert Williams
12 Posted 07/02/2023 at 21:25:41
Mamma Mia - "Take it easy my bambino."
Dupont Koo
13 Posted 07/02/2023 at 23:45:44
IMHO, that will be a well-earned bonus for Dyche if it materialises, considered the huge amount of work that he will need to put in to mold us back into a proper team (last Saturday's win is a good start but is only the beginning).

This is pocket-change for Moshiri, so nothing wrong with that.

Compared to Bielsa's Annual Base Salary of £8 Million with Leeds (and they are still paying him to stay away from them!), that amount is Peanuts!

Bjorn-Ivar Pedersen
14 Posted 08/02/2023 at 04:44:29
Bonuses are a great thing, if the ordinary salary is reduced.
I mean all salary in sports should be performance based.
Only then we would finally see footballers actually give 100%.
Paul Kernot
15 Posted 08/02/2023 at 04:58:18
Just keep us up Sean. A week ago we were utterly doom & gloom & resigned to being relegated. 3 points v the league leaders was a great start and has given the most dangerous drug of all - hope.
No, I'm wrong about that, false hop is worse still. A great start yes, now show us it can be repeated.
Sean Roe
16 Posted 08/02/2023 at 06:38:35
He's a long long way from receiving that bonus. We have won one game, something that the squad has been capable of every now and then. They are also extremely capable of downing tools
Phil Wood
17 Posted 08/02/2023 at 07:39:31
So What?
His package is his package for taking such a difficult job.
Some people will be on here saying our Managers should take the job for nothing.
We've been paying players more than this for doing nothing for years.
He is following a long line of Managers who took the cash for doing nothing.
If this man can keep us up he should be made a Saint never mind payed well.
Eric Myles
18 Posted 08/02/2023 at 07:54:54
Dennis #9, no.

Moyes salary was reported as less than Dyche's basic.

Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 08/02/2023 at 08:17:02
I don’t know where you live Ray M, but I’m sure you will enjoy watching Forest Green. I’ve been watching Morecombe, and have began to really enjoy it. They actually play Forest Green on Saturday, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see quite a few Evertonians, at this game, considering we don’t play until Monday.
Allen Rodgers
20 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:10:02
Tony @19 we may live in the same neck of the woods. I went to Barrow yesterday to watch our U18s , a game strangely ignored by the official website. Leighton Baines seemed to be in charge of our team. Quite a few Blues were at the game. We get everywhere !
Tony Abrahams
21 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:52:17
What score was the game Allen, and did you see anyone that caught your eye besides Bainesy!
Allen Rodgers
22 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:24:36
Tony it was 3-0 to Barrow who were bigger and more physical than our boys. It was literally men against boys. Our no.2 has lightning pace but no idea who he is ! Now been told it was Roman Dixon .Also an honourable mention for our young keeper Seb Jensen
John Graham
23 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:59:25
If he keeps us up it will be well worth the bonus. Then if he can improve us to up above mid table next season he will be earning his wages.
We were dead and buried a week ago, now he has given us some hope and instilled fight and purpose to the team with his basic tactics. If he can keep the improvement up get the best out of the players he will deserve everything.
Will be interesting to see what he does when Calvert Lewin isn't available, but on seeing that performance on Saturday things seem to be on the up.
Dean Williams
24 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:57:43
I think it's disgusting that a manager whose probably on 100k a week should get a bonus for doing his job. This is everything that's wrong with football.
Dale Self
25 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:11:07
Decent clause, well negotiated Mr. Dyche. I’m liking that guy more and more
Tony Abrahams
26 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:17:30
Thanks Allen.
Ajay Gopal
27 Posted 09/02/2023 at 07:43:12
He is just sharing the windfall for EFC if we stay up, for which he would be largely responsible. I don't have a problem with that.
Alan J Thompson
28 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:29:28
A bonus for doing his job is alright providing that there is no pay-off for getting sacked if we get relegated. Oh, and a slight adjustment in his in his weekly wage to partially cover the bonus. Otherwise it's heads he wins, tails he wins.
Paul Kossoff
29 Posted 09/02/2023 at 17:15:46
Did Dyche actually ask for this bonus? Shouldn't he have said he will try his best to keep us up by doing the job he's paid for? Is he another Fat Sam who asked for extra to take on the task?

I would have thought keeping us in the Premier League and getting a good contract was enough. They weren't actually lining up to take him on. Besides the fact he's a dirty red supporter, is his sole incentive cash?

Let's see how long the honeymoon lasts with the dark side and Leeds coming up. I remember in lockdown Dyche complaining about lower league clubs asking for financial help. Dyche said, "Why should we help them? They don't give us anything."

Gold digger, not a goal digger, I think.

Raymond Fox
30 Posted 09/02/2023 at 17:34:27
The way it works is Dyche, or whoever is representing him, asks for say £150,000 per week.

The club say No we cant pay you that much per week but we can offer you £100,000 pw and, if you keep us up, you get an extra £3.5 million.

Obviously there will be plenty more backwards and forwards going on before everyone's happy.

Dermot O'Brien
31 Posted 09/02/2023 at 20:25:16
"According to reports...", and some people go on like he's robbed their granny.
If he keeps us up he can rob my granny. Or steal her anyway.
Tony Everan
32 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:04:51
Sock shortage at Finch Farm.

“Players have been asked to wear shinpads as a result, which require longer, traditional socks to take the place of sports socks Premier League stars often wear during the week. Everton didn't have enough pairs of these types of socks at their Finch Farm training ground, though, leading to Dyche sending the kit man to rush to the nearest sports shop.”

Lester Yip
33 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:54:29
I am guessing the bonus might also tie with a net spend on transfers that is negative, ie, we spend little on new players.

Work with what you've got like you're with Burnley and keep us afloat for 2 more seasons.

Gerry Killen
34 Posted 09/02/2023 at 23:43:42
Personally, I don't give a toss how much Sean or our players get paid. It's got nothing to do with anybody how much Everton pay their staff.

How would you feel if you heard people discussing how much you are on in the pub? This leads to jealousy and idiots chasing players' cars in the street.

I assume there is a basic wage paid at all levels in football and apprentices' wages would be slightly higher than lads in the workforce.

Going back in the days when we got our wages in the hand on a Friday, I would leave work at Camell Lairds, up to the market and buy the Missus the latest CD etc.

She never knew how much I earned. I made sure she never went short, I even voted against having our wages paid into a bank!!! Happy days. COYB

Derek Knox
35 Posted 10/02/2023 at 05:01:25
Ambivalent on this, yes I hope he does it, but also agree that surely it is his job, or any Manager/Coach for that matter. I know it was all left too late, not his fault either, but then again, presumably a lot less than others got for failure.

Koeman being the biggest recipient, and some wonder why we are under scrutiny for FFP etc, we must have shelled out nearly 80 million in compos alone, bearing in mind they also paid compo to Southampton to get the failure in the first place, as was with Silva and Watford.

Likewise with Bobby Brown Shoes, we weren't playing great football, but our league position was a lot better than where we are now. Although I also think the trigger was pulled too soon with Marco Silva, who seems to be doing okay now at Fulham.

Now, who appointed all these failures in the first place?

Derek Thomas
36 Posted 10/02/2023 at 05:28:04
If I remember correctly, at one stage Moyes - on £4M - was the 3rd highest paid manager in the world behind SAF & Wenger... or some version of that.
Paul Hewitt
37 Posted 10/02/2023 at 07:11:16
If Dyche keeps us up, it saves the club £90 million in TV money. So a £3.5 million bonus isn't a lot.
Danny O’Neill
38 Posted 10/02/2023 at 07:43:40
Like anyone going into a new job, you negotiate a package and try to get the best deal for yourself.

He has obviously been given an objective and, if he achieves it, he gets an agreed bonus. If he doesn't achieve it, then no bonus.

I don't see the problem here. We might be aghast at the money being thrown around in football now and may not all agree with it, but it's just the reality.

I hope he get's his bonus!!!

Eric Myles
39 Posted 10/02/2023 at 07:45:58
Derek #36, I think it was fourth highest, behind Mourinho also.
Ben King
40 Posted 10/02/2023 at 09:28:28
Like so many have said: if he keeps us up, then he's worth it. He's already made an incredible start – let's see where it goes.

For those bleating on and on about astronomical wages – it's been like that for years! Your eyebrows must be permanently up and your jaw constantly dropped to the floor if you're continually amazed by the economic power that is market forces.

Premier League salaries ARE gigantic. They are incredible. Breathe in, accept it and move on. Or just support another team or another sport. This is it.

Dyche (or Bielsa or any other AN Other that could or would have managed us) would have wanted and commanded a similar wage. That's the reputation they've crafted in their careers to have eventually become a manger of a Premier League club. That's their ‘reward'

Personally, I'm overjoyed that the club offered Dyche a contract based on performances. Great financial management finally.

And I'm even happier that Dyche backs himself enough to say, “I'll keep you up. Get that money ready, baby, because I'm a top-class manager!”

This is a win-win. What's not to like?

Brian Harrison
41 Posted 10/02/2023 at 09:57:54
I find it odd that some posters are upset at Dyche being offered a reported £3.5 million for keeping us up; the game has always paid bonuses.

Players' contracts all have performance-related pay agreements, so why shouldn't the manager?

Dave Abrahams
42 Posted 10/02/2023 at 10:31:41
If Sean Dyche keeps us up, I'd say he's worth double the bonus he is allegedly getting for doing that.

Everything else is relative to the job they do; was Moyes worth his huge wages? For me, no way was he worth that. As for players, it's hard for me to realise the wages that some players receive no matter how good they are, well higher than £250,000 per week?

No, I can't reconcile those figures with real life when the medical staff that everybody needs have to go on strike to get the wages they deserve.

Then on to average players or less than average getting ridiculous amounts every week that we would be delighted to get every 2 years. Relative or not, these average players only get them in England and some of the foreign players who come here are only average at best. We've got and have had some of them and can't get rid of them because of the wages they receive – British ones as well, being honest.

So good luck to Dyche and I hope he picks that bonus up but most of the players and the money they get? I've got no words for them except the ones that would fill ten swear boxes, at least!!

Kevin Molloy
44 Posted 10/02/2023 at 11:09:06

Moyes's recruitment of John Stones alone paid the uplift on his salary for a decade. He was one of the finest recruiters in Premier League history. Not quite Wenger status but up there.

Even this summer, he very nearly took Onana, he's top-notch at an extremely lucrative side of the business.

Ray Roche
45 Posted 10/02/2023 at 11:32:53

I thought that Moyes had to be persuaded to sign Stones because he didn't rate him that highly?

Tony Abrahams
46 Posted 10/02/2023 at 12:00:32
It’s definitely all about having the right people doing the recruiting imo, Kevin.

Lescott, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Cahill and Arteta, we’re all fantastic signings, as was John Stones. Moyes is without doubt very cautious, and this might have cost West Ham, a player with great potential in Onana. It nearly cost him Cahill (luckily for Everton, Simon Jordan, wouldn’t deal with his agent) and I don’t think he would have signed Arteta, if Newcastle didn’t sign both Scott Parker and Emre, either?

Stones got us £45 million, if DCL can get himself fit, I’m sure he will get us something similar. Same with Brainthwaith, which surely gives a massive pointer towards our club, should be looking for young players?

Barry Rathbone
47 Posted 10/02/2023 at 12:25:44
Like a lot of the Moyes accreditations, his "eye for talent" is another myth. His aim was midtable security – a simple task at the time given the reputation of this club – and he bought accordingly.

The players many revere as "stars" of the time weren't pursued in any great number by Champions League clubs because they weren't good enough.

He bought as much dross as anyone else and his big buys weren't that clever. Regarding John Stones, it is true Moyes was not convinced and, if Martinez hadn't given him a shot, would he have even been noticed by Man City?

Ray Robinson
48 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:11:22
Sorry, Barry, but I disagree. Man Utd were reportedly sniffing around Jagielka, Pienaar went to Spurs, Arteta to Arsenal and Cahill would have been snapped by other clubs if he'd shown an inclination to move.

Whatever opinion you have about Moyes, he undoubtedly did have a knack for sporting talent. Doesn't mean he didn't have other limitations but fair's fair …

Barry Rathbone
49 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:24:57
Ray @48,

Pienaar was found out at Spurs and the others bar Arteta are pure supposition. Even Lescott and Stones were/are bit-part squad players at Man City. The only player of any note exiting this parish during the Moyes era was Rooney who he inherited but couldn't handle.

Moyes's "successes" were in the main mid-table players to meet the mid-table target. Our problems since have been trying to escape that mediocrity without the requisite dough to plough on through the inevitable cock-ups.

Moyes recruited mostly mid-table players – it is a matter of record.

Kevin Molloy
50 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:31:42
Ray, yes, no doubt. But he gets all the credit cos he signed off on it. There are thousands of players a manager nearly signs, but he's judged on the ones he signs off on.

Tony, yes, Dithering Davey strikes again. But it's the players he did sign, how they played, that's what he is judged on… and strictly on his record, it's an outstanding turn. The comparison with what went afterwards is stark.

Barry, if his aim was mid-table obscurity, you have to say he overdelivered considerably.

Tony Abrahams
51 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:50:56
I definitely think saying it was an outstanding record is a bit outlandish, Kevin, but I take your point, mate.
Ray Robinson
52 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:51:45
Barry, the fact that Pienaar was found out at Spurs is irrelevant. The fact is at least 4 of Moyes's signings were bought by teams with Champions League aspirations.

We'll have to disagree!

Barry Rathbone
53 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:53:02
Kevin @50,

He finished his first full season using the majority of Walter's crew in 7th place. A decade later, after his masterly recruitment, his average league finish was nearer 8th.

He was clearly the Scottish Brian Clough.

Barry Rathbone
54 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:54:18
Ray 52,

We do disagree but 4 out of 74 signings in a decade kinda makes my point.

Barry Hesketh
55 Posted 10/02/2023 at 13:56:52
I think that David Moyes's biggest strength wasn't necessarily spotting talent, but rather he ensured that a new player's personality would fit in with his methods and the players already at the club — alas, something that has been sadly missing in the last few years.

Character can overcome a lack of ability or even enhance that ability; we've had too many 'ghost' players sign for us in the last few years.

Kevin Molloy
56 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:08:11
I know he's not liked on here overly, but I did think his recruitment was beyond reproach.

Baines, Coleman, Jagielka, Lescott, Arteta, Cahill, Stones, Pienaar – all bought for peanuts and all outstanding servants. We've not had one player after £500M spent who's come near any of them.

Danny O’Neill
57 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:16:10
Read through this one.

I don't often say it, but I have on good account from a friend I met up with at the recent FA Cup tie at Old Trafford. Life long Man Utd fan and season ticket holder who took me to the biggest United pub in Manchester and has contacts within the club. I met some interesting characters, but they looked after me.

They despised the very short Moyes era. He was out of his depth.

Apparently even the canteen staff at their training ground used to say "here come Everton" when they saw Moyes's team coming.

He had a golden ticket. What did he do? Tried to sign Fellaini and Baines. He got 50% success on that.

He made some good signings at Everton. He made some bad ones. Like most managers. What I look back on is how he played to the narrative of playing down expectation.

Pienaar; I'd take him tomorrow and get him into Finch Farm. Currently coaching the Ajax U18s and a great technical player. Especially working alongside Baines, who he had a fantastic football understanding with him.

Ray Robinson
58 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:21:47
Barry, I said at least 4: Cahill, Coleman, Jagielka, Baines and others are not even included in that lot. I don't think any Everton manager has come near him in recruitment terms.
Dave Abrahams
59 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:21:58
Kevin (44),

“Moyes was one of the finest recruiters in the history of the Premier League”

I'll just leave that with you, Kevin… except to say I could never agree with that, mate.

Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:44:35
The staff at Man Utd sounded like they were laughing at Moyes and his backroom staff, Danny, so don't start me on him and Kenwright, please, mate.

He actually thought he lifted Everton to new heights, such was the love-in between himself and his deceitful, nepotistic chairman.

Whenever I hear people say Moyes was outstanding, it makes me feel sick. This narrative was controlled by the press, just like the very negative narrative now is getting controlled by the press.

That's Bill Kenwright for yer, a very clever player, and a man who has done so much damage to Everton Football Club over many, many boring fucking years.

Although we stopped existing to win, it sounds like thousands of Evertonians would love to be back in that era now.


Michael Kenrick
61 Posted 10/02/2023 at 14:59:39
One of your best posts, Tony – and yea, it really is me saying that!

You've taken the mantle from Don Alexander as Bill's biggest online nemesis, with a clear and passionate refrain that goes beyond the incessant griping to somehow make it more real and visceral with clear-cut examples like this.

Good job!!!

Ray Robinson
62 Posted 10/02/2023 at 15:22:45
Tony, acknowledging Moyes's contribution to Everton does not automatically mean that people are blind to his limitations. Nor does it mean, they'd want him back. They're just being fair minded.
John Keating
63 Posted 10/02/2023 at 15:25:21
Apart from Catterick the only manager to get players sweet money was Kendall
Moyes got half decent players to play in a half decent team who finished in a half decent position
Kevin Molloy
64 Posted 10/02/2023 at 15:37:12
I find it impressive the way evertonians can look at the last six years of utter catastrophe, and acknowledge the fact that after 500m spent we are teetering on the brink of going out of existence, and at the same time look at the decade previous to that where we had a negative net spend each year and finished in the top six every year practically, and still find enormous fault with the guy responsible for it. I would have thought that the last six years would have taught us that actually getting top six on no money was pretty good, but no, actually he should have been ridden out of Goodison on a rail apparently.
Kieran Kinsella
65 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:01:54
Barry Hesketh nails it for me. Moyes got players with the right attitude (mostly ADVM, Drenthe, Jo as exceptions).
Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:12:10
He did a good job Kevin/Ray, there is no doubting that fella’s, and he also left Martinez a good team, when he left. It’s what we became over this era, that is the sickening bit, because Everton went from a team that had won at least one major honour, for every decade of their existence (except the fifties) and then suddenly stopped competing to win, imo.

This wasn’t the managers fault, he did his job, and kept his chairman very happy, but he wouldn’t have lasted more than five years, in any other era belonging to Everton, because I don’t think the owner, would have got away with it, during any other era. I might be wrong?

If you really want to win, the first rule is that you have got to have,100% belief,. I’ve said it many times, but the way Moyes carried on after he got the United job, was highly embarrassing imo.

Listen to Dyche, he might have been playing the game, but, when he said he wouldn’t have got the Everton job, if the club wasn’t on its knees, he was at least showing signs of being humble, and also exerting common-sense. When Moyes got the United job, it never looked like he gave a single thought to winning? This is how I viewed his interviews at that time, anyway.

Bill Gall
67 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:13:37
To me D.Moyes showed his credentials after he left Everton, Man Utd fired,
Real Sociedad fired, Sunderland Relegated Resigned, West Ham Saved them from relegation, not offered a new contract.
Jeff Spiers
68 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:15:31
Seriously, how much more money do rich, pampered spoilt brats really NEED. Pure bastard greed
Kevin Molloy
69 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:21:12
yes psychologically I think Moyes has always operated in an environment where he's felt he's had to compensate for not being as good as the others, and tried to compensate through eg fitness and organisation when he was a player, and that spilled into his management philosophy.
And yes, in any other era his long stay could not have happened. at some point he would have been given the money and expected to make the breakthrough, or fail.
But we are no longer that club, sadly. We are no longer the mersey millionaires. We are still a club in Walton, but are now competing with Chelsea Arsenal and tottenham, to name but three, all of whom dwarf our resources. I understand why you conflate Moyes with Bill, as yes Bill wouldn't have been able to survive as long as he has without him. That's not his fault though, in fact it is testimony to what a good job he did. That he could keep a guy with no money in charge of a premier league club for a decade is down to his own impressive record.
Michael Kenrick
70 Posted 10/02/2023 at 16:55:14
Brian @41,

"Players' contracts all have performance-related pay agreements, so why shouldn't the manager?"

Do they though? Yes, back in the day... but now, they have image rights on top of huge guaranteed salaries. The websites that claim to list such things show fixed-salary contracts with no mention of performance-related bonuses.

Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 10/02/2023 at 17:06:36
Wenger kept Arsenal in the Champions League with a zero net spend, Kevin, but as you pointed out earlier, he was a proper manager.

Moyes averaged 7th. Everton's wage bill was always in the Top 10. He did well, but he didn't do any better than this imo. 44 games without a single victory over any of the top four sides away from Goodison tells me everything I already knew about David Moyes.

I think the biggest beneficiary of the David Moyes era was Bill Kenwright — surely we can agree on this without going into any more detail!

Tony Abrahams
72 Posted 10/02/2023 at 17:10:45
Maybe your first paragraph describing David Moyes, might also apply to Sean Dyche, Kevin?

The difference is that I believe that Sean Dyche will always have believed he was good enough and, now he's getting a chance at managing a proper sleeping giant of a football club, I'm looking forward to seeing how things develop.

Barry Rathbone
73 Posted 10/02/2023 at 17:19:07
Kevin 69

"yes Bill wouldn't have been able to survive as long as he has without him.(Moyes)"

And if you go along with the "devil Kenwright" hypothesis the Moyes 10 yr recruitment record is neither here nor there as a pair they supplanted NSNO with mediocrity.

Kevin Molloy
74 Posted 10/02/2023 at 17:24:04
Tony yes agreed. massive test on Monday, and I'm not going to freak out if we get whacked. One perfect way for Clop to set things back on an even keel is to give us a good hiding. Just as we came out flying against Arsenal, I think they will do the same against us, and there is a danger we get blown away, as I reckon when the players put their foot down in that gale they find there isn't much left in the tank. I watched clop's press conference today, he is a formidable opponent.

Barry it's hardly Moyes's fault if he wasn't given any money to spend.

Tony Abrahams
75 Posted 10/02/2023 at 17:30:19
Stand up to the bully, stand up to the fuckin bully. I watched a ten minute video of Everton training, and the one thing that was noticeable, was that it was designed to work the lungs. Short, Sharp - go again, short, Sharp, go - again. Hopefully the Everton players, will have plenty in the tank on Monday night.
Christopher Timmins
76 Posted 10/02/2023 at 18:05:27
A Seán Dyche team will not show fear, roll on Monday!
Jim Lloyd
77 Posted 10/02/2023 at 18:07:42
As soon as we beat Arsenal, I looked at that as 3 points better than we'd get after playing both these two teams. not only did we win, we deserved to win. So 3 points ahead after 1 game...excellent

As for who plays on Monday, either in the first 11 or come on as subs, I'm with the Manager picking our lads to face the r/s.I like Maupay's fighting spirit, he's scored goals in the past so, it'll be a massive bonus if he plays and scores. If he comes on and pisses the Red Jessies off, then that'll do for me.

I think the clubs medico's are in a better position, not us, to decide if Calvert Lewin's muscle problems are in his head or not; and if he doesn't think he's right, then he's not going to pull his tripes out. So if we play Simms /Maupay, or vice versa. I'll go along wit the Manager's set up. And as long as our players fight; for no matter how many minutes extra the ref gives them, then I'll be satisfied.

If we get beat, then I'll think we're 3 points ahead of where I expected. If we get a draw, that's another bonus

Kevin @ 74 Bang on mate. When he said knife to a gunfight, I think Moyes was referring to our spends to the likes of the so called " The Big Six" in reality it was The Rich Six!

If we win, I'll do a jig; and go mad an have a bottle of Abbot!

Barry Rathbone
78 Posted 10/02/2023 at 18:20:55
Kevin 74

"Barry it's hardly Moyes's fault if he wasn't given any money to spend."

You miss the point.

At the time plenty were pointing out the absence of progression and acceptance of not challenging was the first step to going backwards and so it has proved.

An ambitious manager with a bit about him might have raised such concerns perhaps even walked but Moyes knew he was fireproof with Kenwright so put his feet up. Who knows what effect such turmoil would have had on the Kenwright strangle hold maybe, just maybe, he would have been pressured enough to sell to a sheikh!!!!

Inevitably as managers average tenure slipped to less than 2 years Moyes long tenure became some kind of weird accomplishment and friendship with SAF provided his lottery win.

Of course he was found out within months despite having the riches of Croesus at his disposal something that has happened everywhere since

Ernie Baywood
79 Posted 10/02/2023 at 18:24:17
I always thought the key thing about Moyes' recruitment was that he stuck to some sound principles. Right attitude, right position, not too many at any one time.

Lots of the players he signed weren't great footballers. But they were going to integrate well into the side and have a chance to perform.

He progressively (too slowly for many) improved the squad by adding only what he needed each window. He took his time integrating new players - the Baines integration was particularly slow even as Moyes acknowledged that he was the best left back at the club.

Where that came unstuck was when he needed us to improve us further. On occasions he dithered on signing quality, on others he had to compromise on character to get type of footballers he needed. Basically he hit his limit. Classic Peter Principle stuff - he rose to his level of incompetence as most do.

In an ideal world, and with hindsight, a club should look to a Moyes type to build stability and then bring in a different type of manager to move it forward.

Maybe Dyche is our Moyes type. Get this club out of trouble and build it up to stability again.

Bill Gall
80 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:20:53
Tony # 75
The other thing I found very noticeable was there were not many footballs used in these training sessions, a little different from Lampards training sessions that showed nearly all training sessions with the ball, and I always wondered how come they usually never failed to score from some hard angles yet in a game they couldn't hit the goal.
Dennis Stevens
81 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:31:14
I'm sure Dyche can be the stabilising influence Moyes was, eventually - don't forget the first half of his reign were yo-yo years & it was only in his 6th season that he achieved back to back top half finishes. However, the question then is how ambitious is Dyche to achieve with this Club. Moyes was ambitious, but for himself rather than the club, imo.
Danny O’Neill
82 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:44:57
I saw that training session video.

One thing noticeable was how how hard the players were worked.

Everyone who has watched it can comment but I noted the obvious close relationship between Coady and Tarkowski. And that Seamus still has a good set of lungs and determination in him that sets an example to others.

I could go on, but I would recommend all watch it for themselves.

Hard work seems to to the way forward.

Brian Harrison
83 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:46:29
Michael 70

If you don't think that players are paid bonuses then as I recall when Chelsea got to the Europa Cup final, John Terry managed to get a bonus for reaching the final and winning it. They had been knocked out of the Champions league early so were catapulted into the Europa league. So how do you explain that, also do you really believe that Liverpool players never got a bonus for winning the Champions league.

Yes I am old enough to remember Everton and other clubs players getting a win bonus and a crowd bonus on top of their capped £20 per week.

Danny O’Neill
84 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:59:22
Right now, I'm just focussed on us marching on Mordor and getting the boys over the line.

The rest can wait.

Raymond Fox
85 Posted 10/02/2023 at 20:08:51
Credit where its due, Moyes on the money he spent buying players did as well as any other manager could do.
I said when he left he would be a hard act to follow and so it has proved.
He was good at what he did but he was not the sort of manager Utd needed, Potter at Chelsea is going to be another manager who would be better off at a smaller club he wont last long.

The Prem. is even tougher now than in Moyes day in my opinion, you have new rich clubs such as Leicester, Newcastle and now Notts Forest added to the 6 sitting pretty each season clubs. West Ham and Newcastle get very large attendances each home game now so all in all its not even easy to get in the top 10.

Dyche will have a plan no doubt about that, we stopped Arsenal playing their fancy stuff so I think the tactics will be the same again.
Obviously its going to be a difficult game but as long as lady luck can shine on us we are in with a fighting chance.
It doesn't sound like DCL will start or even be on the bench which is a pity, unless that is Dyche is telling a few porkies.

Dave Abrahams
86 Posted 10/02/2023 at 20:20:28
Moyes’s attitude in far too many games was he went out trying not to lose the game instead of going out and trying to win the game.
Andy Crooks
87 Posted 10/02/2023 at 20:52:13
Great thread. Tony A, you've played a blinder on this thread. Good to see your work acknowledged by MK, our poster development coach has nurtured a new talent!!
Ray Roche
88 Posted 10/02/2023 at 21:24:29
I'll set my store out right away. I wouldn't touch Moyes now with a barge pole.

I was, still am, sickened by the way the grovelling ginger shit slithered into Old Toilet after dumping on Everton. He was as big an arsehole as we've seen at Goodison for the disgraceful way he left.

However, I can appreciate the fact that he gave us fans some pride back. The ‘plucky little Everton' is a badge that I fear is imagined rather than existed in the minds of fans blinded by anything Moyes did that didn't perpetuate the long-dead School of Science.

Where did plucky little Everton emanate from? I don't know, but what I do know is this. The following squad of Moyes signings would batter the present incumbents out of sight:

Howard, Martyn, Coleman, Baines, Distin, Lescott, Jagielka, Neville, Pienaar, Osman, Arteta, Cahill, Hibbert, Yakubu, Yobo, Stones, Gravesen, Fellaini, Mirallas, Heitinga, Johnson… and for a while our forward line was Marcus Bent.

Please tell me, which of these players wouldn't improve our current squad? Before answering, take off your blinding anti-Moyes glasses and take a moment to reflect. (Sounds a bit too religious that, sorry.)

Okay, the ginger whinger also bought some dogs but which manager in our history hasn't? The fact is, unpalatable to some Moyes haters, he bought some excellent players and I would back a team from that squad to get us out of trouble before today's squad.

And I can also appreciate that his away record at the Sky top four was shockingly bad. But I can appreciate good players when I see them.

Brendan McLaughlin
89 Posted 11/02/2023 at 00:51:50
When the recent history of Everton is written David Moyes will undoubtedly be one of the good guys. He may not get to read it but in ToffeeWeb 2050 he'll be talked about in glowing terms.

Christine Foster
90 Posted 11/02/2023 at 01:41:01
David Moyes is a canny scot, short on managerial ability, he found his comfort zone in Everton, for him, a no risk appointment, his risk aversion meant he would never be successful managing a top club. United found that out in very quick time. In Everton he found a club that needed to stay exactly where it was, mid table, away from relegation but never good enough to win anything.

It suited his master, Bill Kenwright, buy low, sell what we can, stay in the league until he could find a suitable patsy for his 24/7 search for a new owner that in reality he didn't want. No, he wanted a slice of the cake, just needed the right investor to keep him in place and pay him for the privilege. Got to hand it to him, he must have thought he had died and gone to heaven.

But Moyes knife to a gunfight is the millstone around his neck, so many times did we fail to capitalise on situations through a lack of management nerve rather than skill of a player. For me he is a mid to bottom of the table manager..because he simply cannot cut it at the top table. No other team would be as forgiving as we were.

Kieran Kinsella
91 Posted 11/02/2023 at 02:23:12

I’ve no problem with Moyes he was an honest hard working man who as Barry said made signings with the right attitude. The problem is that we are not Charlton AFC. If we were then like Curbishley he’d be a legend. But despite Kenshites attempts to minimize our past we are Everton ergo his accomplishments are not in the big scheme of things a success.

Eric Myles
92 Posted 11/02/2023 at 04:11:47
Raymond #85, it's a pity the fixtures weren't the other way round. I think we surprised Arsenal with our 'in your face' tactics but now Klopp will be ready for it and the surprise attack won't be as effective.
Danny O’Neill
93 Posted 11/02/2023 at 08:43:52
Ray @88, I'll give you my response to that one.

I'm not sure there are Moyes haters, Hate is a strong word. I don't like it when we categorise it like that. It's a bit like the Ancelotti happy clapper tag that was banded about.

We have opinions on managers just as we do on players. The vast majority of Evertonians will support any manager who is in situ and we want them to succeed, because if they do, we do.

My opinion on Moyes is well documented. I understood what he needed to do in the early years and supported it. And he built some good teams that almost challenged. Almost, but fell short.

When the moment came to push on, we choked and he couldn't.

He was and is a master of playing down expectation and complimented Kenwright's false narrative. They were made for each other, which had me temporarily worried in recent weeks.

He's done it just about everywhere since. The knife to a gunfight comment was probably surpassed by aspiring to be like Manchester City when you are the Manager of the reigning English Champions and one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Maybe a misplaced comment, but if you are a Manchester United supporter, I don't see how that goes down well. It didn't.

Again, playing down expectation when apparently he had the platform that many had cited for years. Imagine what he could do with a the right club and money. Well, we've seen the results of that.

I still think his best clanger was the Nigerian 25 comment, although his attempt at Spanish was special.

I don't hate Moyes. As I've said many times, I'm actually related to him. Never met him myself, but he kindly hosted one of my brothers and my sister at Bellefield for a day. And he met some of my cousins at a wedding.

He just has his limitations as a manager. Not the standard I want for Everton.

They might be unrealistic right now, but I have expectations for Everton and no manager or Board Room will ever beat that out of me, no matter how hard they try to.

Right now, and yet again, I just want us over the line. But we need change. Institutional change. Otherwise nothing changes.

Anyway, Monday evening is the focus. It's probably why I'm a bit emotive.

Alan J Thompson
94 Posted 12/02/2023 at 05:27:40
On the matter of managers' pay and bonuses. I can't vouch for the veracity of the story but it was said at the time that Shankly parted ways with tomorrow's opponents as he was refused a bonus for their achievements under his management while the players were paid a bonus.

Anyone else remember this, or if it is true?

Derek Thomas
95 Posted 12/02/2023 at 06:52:37
Alan J @ 94;

Not a surprise really. They crapped on him 6 ways from Sunday before and after he left. There's many stories – they can't all be wrong.

Danny @ 82;

Hard Work is always a part of the way forward

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