Dyche

by   |   24/02/2024  102 Comments  [Jump to last]

After watching another disappointing game which we should have won, I've ended up hoping and praying that, when our new owners eventually take over the running of our club – whoever they may end up being – do not take us into our brand spanking new stadium with Sean Dyche as our manager.

Because, if he is, it will mean more of these second-rate performances and results and, the way things are looking, in the Championship.

I hope our new owners will give us a manager who knows our club and understands our fans and whose heart is in our club.

There are not many managers that can fit that bill but there are one or two and one who, in particular, could be available before we christen our new stadium.


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Reader Comments (102)

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Michael Kenrick
1 Posted 24/02/2024 at 20:50:32
I don't think Klopp will hang around the neighbourhood for the dubious glory of managing us, sorry.
Dave Lynch
2 Posted 24/02/2024 at 21:00:03
If you are alluding to Klopp then you are as deluded as Dyche is with regards his game management.

If the Yanks do get control, I've a feeling we'll get Jessie Marsch or the like.

Personally, I've given up worrying because I've had the life sucked out of me by this club over the past 10 years.

Kieran Kinsella
3 Posted 24/02/2024 at 21:04:44
Peter,

“Knows our club understands the fans and whose heart is the club.”

That's pretty limiting but who are you thinking the old Forest Green manager or the ex Oldham boss? Maybe dust off old Reidy or Royle? Their style being so different to Dyche's ….

Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 24/02/2024 at 21:12:51
I sometimes wonder do a lot of Evertonians, actually know Everton, because only for Dyche, Everton would already be a championship club, imo.

Give us a manager who knows our club and understands our fans and has his heart in the club? I know Bill Kenwright was never a manager, but I’m sure he ticked all of those three boxes, and after he was allowed to change the narrative, it will soon be thirty fucking years, since we won a trophy. What would Everton do🤮

Peter Moore
5 Posted 24/02/2024 at 21:28:22
Dyche is doing far better than all of the so called top level managers that came before him.
In Dyche I trust.
If Dyche is our manager when we move to the new Everton Stadium on the Mersey, I will be delighted.
Dyche saved our skin as a premier league team and has us lower mid table now on points actually won, without the minus 10 scandalous situation.
Dyche is a class person, a class act, a class manager and he is of great fit for us imo.
Peter Mills
6 Posted 24/02/2024 at 21:58:35
Nonsense.
Dave Lynch
7 Posted 24/02/2024 at 22:34:47
Peter.

If Dyche is a great fit for us, then we'll get what we deserve... which is poor, predictable and negative football.

I'm watching Fulham on MotD take Man Utd to the cleaners, there's no way they are better than us man for man.

Andy Crooks
8 Posted 24/02/2024 at 23:00:14
Dave, I don't know what your thoughts on Silva are. What I absolutely do know is that Steve Ferns was a lone voice on here praising him. Must have missed the articles you wrote defending him. Give us a link.

Can't? Give us the formation and tactics you would set us up with that would offer good, unpredictable, positive football with this squad. Go on, Dave, instead of fucking whingeing – give some analysis other than "Dyche is shite".

Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 24/02/2024 at 23:24:41
Tony and Andy,

Dave Lynch is right. We have much better players than Fulham. That's why Bayern Munich were desperate to sign our star midfielder in January.

Remember how we picked off their Number 10 last summer as they needed the money despite the manager wanting him to stay? Luckily we made bank when we sold our star striker to Saudi.

We also have great players who can't even get off the bench, like Harrison… Harrison Reed that is as opposed to their Jack. Or have I got something muddled up here? 🤔

Barry Rathbone
10 Posted 24/02/2024 at 23:41:27
Trouble is, some of our fans will only be satiisfied with a Pep, Klopp, Simeone and Carlo type but without the treasure chests they demand. Well, we tried that and it fell apart.

We actually need a young Clough, Shankly, Mourinho or Wenger to turn water into wine but no one knows where he is. Unless we stumble across him by accident, we will remain with the same functional manager as most clubs.

Rob Dolby
11 Posted 24/02/2024 at 23:46:43
I don't get the negativity towards a man operating with both hands tied behind his back.

As for the comment about getting the fans and club, I don't even know what that means. There is one available, Who?

Joe Royle was the last manager we had that got us because he is one of us.

Would Arteta pack his bags at Arsenal to manage us because he gets us? No chance.

Dyche has gained us 31 points this season despite having to sell to buy in the bargain bin.

I would go a step further by suggesting that we are in with a fighting chance of staying up this season due to Dyche. If we move into the new stadium without him, we will be in the Championship.

David Currie
12 Posted 24/02/2024 at 23:58:38
Barry 10,

Or a young Howard Kendall who was only about 36 when he became our player / manager. Without the European ban, he would have gone on to win at least 7 or 8 major trophies!!

Christine Foster
13 Posted 25/02/2024 at 00:57:24
Tony @4,

Absolutely right, if not for Dyche, we would be playing in the Championship or worse.

I think Lampard loved the club but wasn't experienced enough to manage a club in crisis. So yes, I am thankful Dyche is the manager now and overall he is doing a good job managing our situation and the squad we have.

Circumstances change, sometimes it doesn't matter the manager or tactics, the points deduction remains a noose around our neck and, if the appeal is unsuccessful, it's going to be difficult to amass enough points to stave off relegation and any possible future deductions at the end of the season.

Right now, for the job in hand, we need Dyche. But stave off relegation, bring new owners in, not sell the family car and get some stability, the club and supporters will be looking for improvement. Dyche may well then find himself thanked and moved on. That's life.

Should the worst happen and we are relegated (is that the worst?), Dyche would have to stay on, we would lose half the team, the half that's worth anything, just to clear debts or some loans.

All-in-all, we are between a rock and a hard place. I don't like it, or the way we play, but I don't like any of the options. I fear the Premier League will not find in our favour, that being the case, the second hearing at the end of the season would kill us off.

It's an abuse of power to serve a purpose, prevent the appointment of an independent regulator. It will fail but I am dammed if we will just be collateral damage to make a point.

Dave Lynch
14 Posted 25/02/2024 at 01:11:21
Amdy @8.

My thoughts on Silva are he was not given enough time, fans where imo blinded by the money we were chucking around like a drunken sailor and they demanded or expected instant results.

As for formation and tactics, I'll leave that to the many armchair managers on ToffeeWeb but what I do know is setting a team up to contain and defend is in the Premier League is tantamount to football suicide.

I don't give a flying fuck who we have as manager as long as he is trying to win a game and not rely on defending a 1-goal lead.

Dyche was finished for me after the Luton home game; since then, barring a few decent performances, we have been embarrassing, to say the least.

You carry on supporting him... that is your right, but don't have a go at me for not supporting him. He talks as much shit as his tactics produce. Forget the 10-point deduction, that's no excuse for poor tactics and pitiful displays on the pitch.

Ernie Baywood
15 Posted 25/02/2024 at 01:31:41
It's a results business. And to be honest, I'm tempted to just wait for the result and either cheer or boo rather than watch the stuff we're offering up.

My biggest issue is that I believe this is 'diminishing returns' football. Under Dyche, we're playing less and less actual football with every month that goes by. He's doubling down on this strategy.

At some point, that takes you down.

Dale Self
16 Posted 25/02/2024 at 02:20:42
I'm only here to express disbelief. The one person who can be credited with getting us there and well, he's just not good enough. Pfffft.
Paul Ferry
17 Posted 25/02/2024 at 04:38:26
I can't recall reading a less insubstantial main post than this measly specimen. Admittedly, it packs some top-drawer hackneyed stuff into a few lines, but it's poor, no more than a few quickly jotted down (erm) "thoughts", not good enough for these pages.

I think that it's fair, Peter, to ask you to show the courage of your convictions, other than hiding behind this familiar rant and rave (some might call it "grow a pair"): name these one or two and the one "in particular" who "fit the bill"? Nothing more limp and lame than saying such things but not naming names.

Dyche was not my preference, I even felt a tad diminished with him at the helm. But I've warmed to him and I respect him. Fitting the bill, Peter? Right now, in our predicament, Dyche fits the bill. He has done one hell of a job with this squad, this adversity, and this fucked-up club. And he has done it with decency and dignity which does not merit the tone and content of your squalid seven lines (two of which consist of one or two words).

I am convinced that Dyche, in these circumstances, with what is available to him, is doing a good job. But the qualities that make him a good fit today are not the ones, I think, that will move us to a higher level (whatever that is). There may come a point in time when we no longer need to think that mere survival is our golden haven.

I feel like many, I imagine, between a rock and a hard place: I truly value Sean Dyche and know what he is doing makes sense "in the moment" (was that Silva or Martinez?) but of course I wish that we were not in this predicament and someone else was in charge.

But that is not the case, Peter, and therefore I am grateful to Sean Dyche, and I'm on tenterhooks and intrigued to know who you believe fits the bill more than he does "in the moment" we are in.

Ajay Gopal
18 Posted 25/02/2024 at 06:02:21
Moshiri's reign has been characterised by ill-advised and frequent managerial appointments – Koeman, Allardyce, Silva (right man at the wrong time), Benitez (wrong man, wrong club, wrong time), Ancellotti (right man at the wrong club), Lampard – before he landed on Sean Dyche.

I was not too keen to have him managing Everton because in the midst of superstar managers like Guardiola, Klopp, Arteta, Ten Hag, De Zerbi, etc, Dyche feels old-fashioned and un-sexy. But, he has grown on me and, in the face of unprecedented circumstances, to still have us with a chance of survival is a tremendous feat.

And you know what? The only way that 'sexy' De Zerbi was able to rescue a point yesterday was through a typical Dyche-type set-piece. So, instead of turning our noses up at Dyche's tactics, if we get behind him and the team like our magnificent away supporters do every single game, we might help the team get over the line, and leave the corrupt Premier League licking its wounds.

Brent Stephens
19 Posted 25/02/2024 at 07:59:42
Dave #14 "As for formation and tactics, I'll leave that to the many armchair managers on ToffeeWeb...".

OK, but then (from the comfort of an armchair?)...

"...what I do know is setting a team up to contain and defend is in the Premier League, tantamount to football suicide."

You have to admit, Dave, that does sound a tad like an armchair manager there.

Andrew Clare
20 Posted 25/02/2024 at 08:53:14
Dyche is the right man for right now.

Our status as one of the 'Big Five' has gone due to Kenwright's and Moshiri's ineptitude over previous years. We have to ride out this awful position we are in and Sean Dyche is the right man for us.

Forget about the points deduction, forget about the corrupt Premier League body, forget about 777 Partners being a dubious organisation, and just get those points to keep us in the top flight.

Yeah, the football ain't pretty… but it never is at this end of the table. The Holy Trinity would be turning in their graves if they could see us now.

David Nicholls
21 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:01:13
Dyche is doing a good job. I appreciate he's not everyone's cup of tea but he has the players playing for each other and with pride in the shirt even though it's not always pretty.

Chopping and changing managers is not the answer. It got us in this mess. For me, Dyche deserves a fair crack once the PSR and ownership stuff settles down and we are settled in our fantastic new home.

Michael Kenrick
22 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:01:55
Good post, Paul @17.

I tried to clean up what Peter submitted without changing its essence, which you summed up pretty accurately as being not good enough for these pages.

This is the second piece he's submitted without (as yet) caring to interact with the responses generated. It will probably be the last.

Ernie Baywood
23 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:08:30
Surprised how many people keep repeating that he's doing a good job.

LLLDDDLDD — 5 points from 27.

It's not good. In fact, it's not even bad… it's abysmal.

Mark Murphy
24 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:15:24
Just posted a long one on the other thread so
What Paul Ferry said!
UTFT
Ray Robinson
25 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:21:36
He's not perfect, makes mistakes but, given the paucity of his squad and given the financial constraints of the club, he's making the best of a bad situation. Despite the ugly football, he'll do for me, for the immediate future.

“Knowing the club” is not automatically a formula for good management.

Joe McMahon
26 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:35:52
Peter, as already stated in this thread, the man you want is the current manager of Inverness Caledonian Thistle, who was also sacked by Forest Green.

Your other man was sacked by non-league Oldham Athletic. Man, you must have adored Kenwright.

Robert Tressell
27 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:43:45
Ernie, you seem to consistently forget that Dyche has us in 12th place based on points accrued. He is not responsible for us being in a relegation fight.

Anyway, the Fulham game Dave mentions does highlight interesting managerial issues but he picked the wrong manager. Ten Hag is Man Utd's Silva. He is a good manager who has been undermined by unbelievably bad recruitment (Mount, Amrabat, Onana) and historic bad recruitment going on since a long-term manager departed.

Man Utd are the richer version of us – and as they are also showing (despite all the money spent) it is impossible to get out of this situation through the childishly superficial route of "finding a decent manager".

Dyche is turning around a huge mess for a club that, frankly, has defied logic by staying in the Premier League.

If you want us to play like Fulham, then you need time and players to bring the stability and quality required to play that way. Dyche, based on results not points deductions, is giving us that stability at least – even if the financials mean we cannot hang on to our quality players.

Chris Leyland
28 Posted 25/02/2024 at 09:46:05
Ernie - or one defeat in 6 in 2024 and that was away against the Champions with draws against 3 of the current top 7?

How about 31 points from 26 which is actually what he's got this season on the pitch? That's 5 points less than we got for the whole of last season and 8 points less than the season before and would out as 45 points at season end.

He's taken over a mess on and off the field, he's not been allowed to spend any money. The players that have been signed under him are Young on a free, Beto on a never-never deal, Harrison and Danjuma on loans, and Chermiti on some performance-based clause basis. The outlay on upfront transfer fees is not much above zero.

I'm amazed by the fantasy football critics who somehow think he should have this very poor squad playing like Barcelona in their pomp. His job is to keep Everton in the Premier League; he did that last season after taking over a mess in January on transfer deadline day, and he's doing it this season despite a 10-point deduction and no money to spend.

Danny Baily
29 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:00:54
We're solid enough. And with a bit of luck, we'll get 3-4 wins from the remaining fixtures. As long as we don't get hit with another points deduction then that should be enough.

But there's very, very little margin for error. The only game we've really slipped up in of late was Palace at home. We'll need maximum points from West Ham, Burnley, Forest and the Blades at Goodison. If we fail to win any of those, we'll need to spring a real suprise (a la Brighton away last season) to make up for it.

I've been keeping an eye on the relegation odds, and we're down to 20% from closer to 25% a week ago. Any points back this week will move the dial on that even further.

Chris Leyland
30 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:04:52
Danny, the other game that may be pivotal to our chances is Luton away. A win there goes a long way to securing survival. A draw isn't a disaster but a defeat might be.

I honestly can't see Luton getting more than 12 points and that is factoring them beating us. I suspect they will end up with 31 points.

Paul Smith
31 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:07:23
See the reasons for keeping Dychey are already being prepared should we drop and maybe they have some merit but here are the facts, as per Ernie's post.

LLLDDDLDD 5 points from 9

Keep that up we're gone.

We need a conversation about a change in tactics from the midfield forward. We have the joint 2nd best defence and clearly 2nd best at set plays, scoring 15, but up top we're diabolical.

Waiting on our luck to change or someone to find some form is not rooted in reality – we need to make our own luck and the manger needs to be brave and try something different. Gomes maybe?

The midfield constantly gives it away and anything good usually comes from the wings or from a set play. I love McNeil who gets shit from some on here, he has quality and is quicker than given credit for but Harrison has no final ball and won't put his foot in so he's not the answer.

Nothing fundamental can be changed: we don't have the players but there is still some room for flexibility, so let's try some small but significant changes or it won't get any better.

Mark Murphy
33 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:12:57
LLLDDDLDD 5 points from 27.

Not saying we're a one man team but that run coincides with Doucouré's absence.

He's become pretty much pivotal this season to our Plan A (The Plan) and I expect an upturn once he's back to form.

Tony Abrahams
34 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:15:41
Whilst I agree that the recent points tally is definitely not good enough Ernie, I do believe there are plenty of mitigating circumstances, but maybe it’s still possible to blame the manager, because it’s his team and he picks it, after all.

My own view is that the players put a lot into immediately going and getting back those ten points, and with those games coming in the grueling month of December, it took a lot out of our very small squad physically.

I honestly think whilst we have now began to physically recover, we are now suffering mentally, and this is why I think it’s a disgrace, sinister even, that the appeal verdict is still to be disclosed. How many of us fans have been switching on the internet every couple of hours expecting a verdict? So why would our players be any different?

Getting back to the football, this thread has shown that there is still a lot of sensible and realistic Evertonians about, and thankfully there are many on this great website, that can sometimes be taken over by some really negative people, imo.

We are all Evertonians, and most of us are getting on, which means we have all seen some really great “quality footballers” grace the Everton shirt in our lifetime. Player’s that have given us great pleasure, player’s that we have all wished we could be, (even the females, Christine?!) so I think it’s a given that we would all love to see Everton playing better football, but to expect it right now under the present circumstances, I’m not so sure?

I left Goodison, the other night thinking we were way too conservative, (I still think we were now) but then I listened to Everton on the radio yesterday, and I thought we have played Brighton, three times since they chewed us up and spat us out, just over twelve months ago at Goodison, when Everton were sleepwalking into the championship, with a manager and his coaches, who were allegedly trying to get us playing better football.

My final thoughts go to our fantastic new stadium, that will soon be ready at Bramley-Moore Dock. I’m think about the foundations that were required for such an amazing feet of engineering, and I’m thinking about how this time last year, how the Everton team’s foundations, (or lack of) were floating around on quicksand.

Liam Mogan
35 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:25:20
Great stuff Tony and a lot more considered and illuminating than the original kind-of pointless main 'post'.
Christopher Timmins
36 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:42:13
We need to stay in touch with reality, the manager is doing an extraordinary job given the circumstances.

We don't have an overly talented squad, we don't have a great deal of depth to our squad. We are likely to have to sell again at the end of the season.

Dave Williams
37 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:46:26
Our run of nine without a win isn’t great but consider the opposition- City and Spurs twice each, Villa, Brighton- and it’s not that bad a return.
This isn't a case of great players playing poorly. Doucoure has been a huge miss as has Onana and Gana. These players are hopefully getting back to match fitness ( ok Gana is injured again) but look at our bench and tell me what quality attacking players are waiting to come on- two raw kids and a slightly better version of Niasse! That’s why Sean keeps the first choice guys on too long!
A number of great posts above from Tony, Peter and Chris.We would sink without Dyche and need to get behind the team with support like we generate away from Goodison- that might see an improvement in home form and cut out the booing of our own which frankly is insane. These guys are doing their best in the most crazy and cruel set of circumstances and need a lucky break.
Brent Stephens
38 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:52:55
Tony #34 - a good post, on many levels - honesty in recognising both sides of the Dyche argument (your first para sets that up; it would be good if some other posts were as equally balanced and honest); context (our other performances against Brighton); BMD - now the juices are flowing.
Phil Wood
39 Posted 25/02/2024 at 10:57:30
Hear Hear Tony 34
Liam Mogan
40 Posted 25/02/2024 at 11:12:41
Surely even the biggest Dyche critic can see that if we are relegated this year then it will almost undoubtedly be due to points being deducted and not results? Whether you like the admittedly difficult to stomach tactics or not, that's a fact?

I can understand the criticism of the style of play, the tactical inflexibility and the substitution inertia. What I struggle to understand is the view that relegation worries are due to this and him. The previous manager allegedly tried to play expansive football but all I saw was a team continually on the verge of a heavy beating.

It's an easy default to blame the manager for all ills. How many have we had in the last decade? None have worked. Is it their fault? The players? The club hierarchy? The problems we have are multi-faceted and long-standing. Focusing on a handful of games or a short run of performances won't improve the bigger picture.

Is Dyche the answer? It depends on the question. For this season, undoubtedly. It may be a grim watch but the only thing of importance is to stay up. How long will this be true? Who knows. Do we have to sell again? Do we have to make do and mend? If that's the case he is probably still the answer. We somehow get out of this existential crisis, move into BMD and can plan for a brighter future - arguably he's not the right man. But if he manages to keep us up and continues to show the leadership and calm head he has, perhaps he deserves a decent shot at it?

Danny O’Neill
41 Posted 25/02/2024 at 11:16:06
Dyche is dealing with the hand he has been dealt with.

He might be everyone's choice, but right now he is the right person for the predicament we are in.

Get some of those points back as the Premier League shamelessly dither and we are sat relatively comfortable.

Regardless of what happens in football politics, the manager and the players take credit in my opinion.

Ernie Baywood
42 Posted 25/02/2024 at 11:22:19
It's not like I'm not aware of the mitigating factors. I know what would be our overall total without deductions. Of course I am aware of all that.

But I'm talking about current form. Current form is dreadful. Our recent points return is dreadful. The performances are dreadful. And our current predicament is the position we are in. We need points to stay up and we're not getting them.

I just find it odd how many people are using phrases like "he's doing what is needed" or "we would sink without Dyche" or "he's the one person who can be credited with getting us there".

Our form is sinking form. Our performances are sinking performances.

It's weird how many people are prepared to actually argue against that.

Dave Williams
43 Posted 25/02/2024 at 11:51:02
Ernie- without the points deduction we are mid table and not far away from safety. Over the season so far we have improved our results on the last two seasons. Yes, our current form is not great and we need to start winning again. Injuries and lack of confidence have hit us hard as they always would due to our small squad and lack of quality on the bench but maybe we just need a little boost like our centre forward scoring a goal, a penalty being awarded, a few points given back or our home support remembering what they did in the last two seasons to drag us to safety. Important that we are not losing, we are pretty tight at the back and the players are fighting hard. I think the tide will turn again and have my ticket and coach booked for West Ham. I haven’t seen us score yet this season- now is the time!
Ray Robinson
44 Posted 25/02/2024 at 11:52:35
Because, Ernie, people are prepared to judge Dyche over a season rather than a short run of games that has included some pretty tough opponents.
Ernie Baywood
45 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:01:11
But with the points deduction we are in a relegation fight. And we're producing the kind of performances that aren't moving us away from that situation.

I'm not interested in judging Dyche's full season at Everton, nor his full Everton career or other eras in his life and career. That's not how this works. No-one averaged out Martinez's points when we sacked him - we sacked him because our form was terrible and he was dragging us into a relegation battle. We did the same with Lampard after his prior season escape.

We're in trouble, were not getting enough points, and we're playing poorly. These things are facts.

Not that it matters. There's no-one there to sack him anyway such is the absolute mess that this club has become.

Robert Tressell
46 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:02:46
Ernie # 42 our accrual of 4 points in the last 5 games is better or equal to everyone below 13th. No-one in the relegation fight is in better form than us.
Ernie Baywood
47 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:11:19
I don't know how Dyche does this.

We've actually got Evertonians defending our current form.

Robert, over the last 10 games we're one of the worst teams in the league. In a league that has some really dreadful teams.

I find the all out defence of that really strange. And I'm not just having a go at you - there are plenty espousing his virtues. I don't know how he does it!

Jarmo Rahnasto
48 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:29:22
I think Dyche has done absolutely fantastic job, especially given the circumstances. Dealing with the pressure and a very small squad with no confidence he has given them self-belief, identity and the way to go in a very difficult and unique situation. We are very lucky to have him.

People forget very fast our previous manager lotto, it wasn't going very well and without Dyche we would be in the championship, I have no doubt.

I personally want to see what he can do if we survive this and maybe slowly can build a larger and better squad, he certainly deserves a go and we need him to keep stabilising the ship.

Liam Mogan
49 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:29:38
Ernie you make some really apposite points about the fact we are in a relegation battle, how managers are not judged on results long term and the fact we are in a period of poor form/results.

But in the last 10 league games we have picked up 11 points, which is far from relegation form. In that period apart from the Wolves and City defeats, we have picked up points in 6 games (4 draws admitedly) and should have got something at White Hart Lane. We could easily have won a couple of those draws if things went our way (being a bit more proactive in the last 15 yesterday, DCL putting chances away against Villa, Beto/DCL missing sitters at Fulham).

Dyche is far from perfect but there's always another way of seeing things.

Kunal Desai
50 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:31:30
The way I see it is this club hasn't gone back one or two steps over the years it's gone back three possibly four or five due to the gross mismanagement and sheer negligence from those in power. It's a total reset.

We need a period of stability after the last few seasons of last day relegation battles to stay up (possibly again this season).

The short to medium term is getting back to a solid mid table teams 10th-13th place finishes for a couple of consecutive seasons as well as getting our finances in order and settling down into our new stadium. To see this period through Dyche is the man. We can look further forward from Dyche once we have established those finishes, but until then i'm afraid it's a case where we are going to have to learn to walk again before we can start running. That may not be for quite some time but that's the reality.

Raymond Fox
51 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:34:37
When we play theres a small matter of the players, yet for some its always the managers fault.
We got a draw at Brighton, a game in which we were well second favourite for.
As for their late equaliser and our so called capitulation.
When a team is 1-0 down their obviously going to throw everything at you to score as they have nothing to lose, that is what changes the dynamics of the game.

Its what sort of team we will have next season when we will still be in the Prem. that worries me.
I fear it wont be nearly as stong as our current moderate one.

We will need Dyche more than now.

Dave Lynch
52 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:36:46
After the points deduction we went on a mini run that pulled us all but clear of the bottom 3.

Since that period we have squandered several opportunities against "lesser" opposition to pull even further away, let's for one minute forget the points deduction as an excuse for our current predicament and concentrate on performance team wise.

We are woeful to watch, his insistence with playing Young and Beto is baffling over the likes of Patterson and Dobbin, I try not to get involved in tactical debate because i'm not a manager but I watch week in week out an ineffective style of hoofball to a loan striker who is clearly either bereft of confidence or not up to the job.

Surely he can see it's not working because the vast majority of people who sit around me can see it, we are easy to play against as we have no striking power, its all well and good having a backs to the wall mentality but that wont win you games.

Paul Smith
53 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:38:02
Totally agree Ernie. He's done well but we need him to do better, the exceptional situation demand's exceptional results, instead we get posters posting "we're not far off the European places" or "we're now 13th", are we ? Last time I looked we were on one of the worst runs of any Everton team since the Prems inception and that's not the Premier league's fault or the points deduction. Granted, he's got a shit hand but I get no leeway in my job when short staffed or lacking quality, targets need to be met or my jobs at risk and if not, they will get someone else to find efficiencies, change the culture and systems. I don't want him sacked but worry we are setting ourselves up to keep him in the Championship in an unconscious act of collective acceptance of our fate.
Barry Rathbone
54 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:38:45
When was the last time a club from the lower reaches of the division escaped relegation via expansive footy?

I remember Ian Holloways Blackpool lauded for having a go but they were picked off mercilessly and withered away.

With the players we have no other option exists other than a tight, risk averse formation. It's as though people cannot see the massive weaknesses in the side weekly 4 nil drubbings would be the order of the day if we went for it. Dyche is doing what all managers do in the circumstances

Clive Rogers
55 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:47:02
As I don’t think we will be relegated, the big worry for me is what we will be like next season if, as seems probable, Branthwaite and Onana leave. No doubt a fraction of the money received will be spent on replacements, but judging by the form of some of our recent signings, I am not confident they will be good enough. The team will be weaker. Also we have some aging players whose performances may decline.
Robert Tressell
56 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:47:47
Ernie it's not all out defence. I've said a number of times that I'd like to see us use Patterson at RB because he's a more constructive footballer. And I'd rather see us vary things with greater use of Beto, Danjuma and possibly Dobbin.

I'd put it more the other way, all we hear from you is that Dyche isn't good enough. When what you're demanding in the circumstances is a points accrual to get us into Europe and ignoring the fact that the football at Everton has been dire for 35 years bar a couple of seasons.

And your idea that this is a football manager issue is, as I have said above "childishly superficial"

Liam Mogan
57 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:53:21
Clive - you're not wrong but pls don't harden my arteries anymore than they need to be!
Mark Taylor
58 Posted 25/02/2024 at 12:57:42
Dyche is pretty much all we deserve at the moment. Actually I'll go further than that, I doubt any credible manager would touch us with a bargepole right now, so unstable are we.

Dyche has talked about how many books he could write about his short tenure here. I don't think we can lose sight of the club's predicament in which he tries to operate. In addition to the points deduction and possibly more to come, the EPL have effectively put us into administration, but without an administrator. There is literally no-one in charge. It's a minor miracle that Dyche manages to get a halfway motivated team out, however dreadful the football. And in any case it's semantics, there is no-one to fire him and we certainly couldn't afford to pay him off.

As for the future, it goes one of two ways in my judgement. First, 777 get approved. There will not be sunlit uplands at this point. I would not be at all surprised if Pickford and/or Branthwaite are sold in the summer so they can get back some of the money they have put in so far. Second, 777 are refused- or the EPL just continue to not make a decision- and that way lies administration and relegation. Where Dyche may or may not fit into the above scenarios is perhaps missing the point. It's like two bald men arguing over a comb.

Maybe the Bahrainis ride to the rescue

Tony Abrahams
59 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:11:12
Paul@53, change the culture and systems. That is exactly the problem imo, mate, because Dyche, came into a football club, that has had that many different cultures and systems over the last few years, that it was genuinely lost, especially when you consider that just before he came in, even the board had become involved in trying to throw an incredible fan base, that had definitely helped to keep “THEIR CLUB - OUR CLUB” in the premier league, with absolutely incredible support, under the fucking bus.

I honestly don’t think that Everton football club, are getting governed right now, and believe we are a shell of a club, and will continue to be one until we are sold, and hopefully then, we might begin to find a culture that has been missing for donkey’s years

Christopher Timmins
60 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:13:24
Robert

I agree with a lot of the stuff you write, however, after watching Beto a number of times recently, he is getting the minutes he deserves and I would not like to see more playing time being afforded to him.

His lack of control is scary given the fee paid for him.

Clive Rogers
61 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:18:19
Liam, sorry, but I’ve not been impressed with the standard of Thelwell’s signings so far. I accept that money is a problem.
Iain Johnston
62 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:35:05
If we consider our form over the past 10 games we aren't as poor as some would like us to believe. We have gained more points than we did over the first 10 games.

We are not the Club which W6 D1 L1 in the Autumn.

Personally I don't know what some fans expect. Financially we're in the same position as we were under Walter Smith and for players we are as attractive as a fart in a spacesuit and only sign those who simply want Premier League on their resumé, they don't care which club it is.

In terms of performance, I'm sure Brighton, Spurs & Villa see their results against us as points dropped in the same way as we do against the likes of Luton & Sheff Utd. In all reality we are now and have been for some time relegation candidates, surviving by the skin of our teeth over the past 2 seasons.

Dyche has plugged the holes in our sinking ship and for me has done quite an exceptional job. The teams performance this season has gained us 31 points so far, in a none crooked world a full 11 points above the relegation zone.

That's 9 points more than the same 26 games last season & 6 points more than the same 26 games in '21/'22

I'd be more worried if I were a Brentford fan. So called sexy football, fashionable club, no points deduction, no mitigating off field issues.

There's not a lot of people complaining about Thomas Frank even though the club has lost 11 of their last 14 games and have won less games than us so far this season.

Paul Tran
63 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:37:39
Dyche kept us up last season with one hand tied behind his back.

He'll keep us up this season with both hands tied behind his back.

He paid for three holidays last year. I think he'll do the same this year, too.

I like him.

All the negative comments about Dyche have been said about every manager since my Goodison debut in 1970.

Steve Brown
64 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:51:18
The game management on the last 15 minutes wasn’t good - we don’t know if it was Dyche’s instructions to drop the press or players losing confidence.

But we were minutes from our 6th away win this season. That is progress.

Tony Hill
65 Posted 25/02/2024 at 13:58:00
I don't accept the view that Dyche is a luddite. He had us playing some stylish stuff at the start of the season – despite results – and was then hit by a tsunami of shit.

He's made some mistakes, of course, but he's free of delusions (unlike some of the idiots who were in charge for decades) and that will do for now.

We will stay up this season because we have a fabulous defence and world class goalkeeper. Let's give ourselves a break: relax and cheer up and that will feed through to the team. Superb away support again yesterday.

Fuck those who hate us. They will not keep us down.

Kevin Molloy
66 Posted 25/02/2024 at 14:06:38
it's easy to be wise after the event. If we had maintained the press against 10 men whilst being one up and been caught, everyone would be freaking out, saying "Why were we taking unnecessary risks?"

Cos a press necessarily involves risks, you leave gaps when you charge into the opponent's space.

Andy Crooks
67 Posted 25/02/2024 at 14:31:49
Dave @52, you are spot on on your comments about Beto and Patterson in my view.
Rob Dolby
68 Posted 25/02/2024 at 14:42:46
Andy 67

Patterson is 4th choice for a very good reason, he can't defend.

He needs one to one training to try and learn the art of defending. We can't just let him learn in the first team.

I am not saying he isn't a good footballer, coaching and developing existing players is where we are as a club. The lad should be tried in various roles for the u21s.

Gary Stevens wasnt a fullback until Kendal put endless sessions on designed just for his development in that position.

I loved Dobbins cameo against Villa, the lad got stuck in and helped out at the back it's a shame he has picked up an injury as I think both of our wingers are running on empty.

With today's heat map technology I wonder if both of the wingers have dropped 5 yards deeper than at the start of the season. The chances created have dried up a fair bit.

Kevin 66 Spot on. We won't be the last team to concede against 10 men.

Clive Rogers
69 Posted 25/02/2024 at 15:22:16
If Patterson and Dobbin don't get more game time, they are simply not going to make the grade.

Patterson is 22 and has 19 Scotland caps. I agree that his defending is not up to standard but I doubt he would be prepared to drop down to a junior level. He would move on before that.

Similarly with Dobbin. He is not progressing sitting on the bench watching Beto and recently Chermiti get the call before him.

John de Frece
70 Posted 25/02/2024 at 15:35:32
So who's your candidate to replace Dyche?

Answer – nobody will touch us with a bargepole.

Dennis Stevens
71 Posted 25/02/2024 at 15:42:40
The club haven't got the money to pay off Dyche & Co. Nor to recruit a replacement, who would also have to operate with no transfer funds.

I cannot imagine who would be a better option anyway, considering the club's current situation. The job is now even less attractive than it was when Dyche took it on!

Ernie Baywood
72 Posted 25/02/2024 at 20:06:07
Robert, neither of those statements are true. I am not demanding European qualification nor do I believe this is all a managerial issue.

But we currently need points and our current form is dreadful. The team has gone from being one that used set pieces to supplement goals to one that depends entirely on set pieces and cannot (or often will not as it seems to be a choice) create anything else.

That's the manager. It's the game in his image. He's not misrepresented – this is what he does.

Rob Jones
73 Posted 26/02/2024 at 09:25:10
Ernie - in those nine fixtures we've played Spurs twice (and been unlucky in both), City twice, Villa, Fulham, Brighton and Wolves away, and Palace at home.

That's an important context.

Mark Murphy
74 Posted 26/02/2024 at 09:51:54
It is Rob, and in those games I expected us to beat only Palace and perhaps pick up points v Villa at home and Wolves away.
5 points which is what we have come out with anyway thanks to unexpected points from Brighton, Spurs and Fulham.
We’re hard to beat and a couple of wins away from a decent side.
Michael Lynch
75 Posted 26/02/2024 at 09:58:28
Considering the second-rate (and in some cases third-rate) squad he has inherited, Dyche is doing an incredible job. He has no decent options on the bench, so has very little wiggle room during a match, and the "noise" (as he would say) around the club is relentlessly negative.

We're lucky to have him at this shitshow of a club. Imagine if we still had Lampard, we'd be rock bottom.

Dave Abrahams
76 Posted 26/02/2024 at 10:00:44
Michael (75), Amen to that Michael.
Brian Harrison
77 Posted 26/02/2024 at 10:15:10
Michael @75,

This second-rate (and in some cases third-rate) team includes: Pickford, the current England keeper; Branthwaite, the best young centre-back in the country; Mykolenko, for me in the top 4 left-backs in the league; Onana, who is supposed to be on the radar of Arsenal and Barcelona; Gueye, who is probably our best midfield player and only 2 seasons ago was playing with Mbappe and Messi, and you don't get to play at that level unless you are very good; Calvert-Lewin understudy to Kane for England 2 seasons ago.

So maybe the squad is way better than relegation and it's the manager who is the problem?

Tony Abrahams
78 Posted 26/02/2024 at 12:35:52
I wonder if Moshiri was still interested would he be getting ready to get rid of another manager! It's clear that Everton are not getting governed, it's clear that Dyche, has come into a club, full of other managers players (luckily for him he already knew a couple) and it's clear that he has had no money to spend.

He signed Beto, I know, but would he have signed him if the club could do business, without buying on the never-never?

The football that Dyche's-Everton, have been playing hasn't been pleasant lately, but when you have a small squad, and it is a squad that badly lacks creativity, then you should always play to your strengths, imo, and Dyche, like the great Ancelloti, has chosen to get his players digging in and playing very pragmatic football right now.

The time to judge Dyche isn't now, (even though I think he his doing an extremely good job, with extremely bad conditions) but it's when Everton can finally get out of this current mess, none of which has been created by the man who kept us in the premier league, when the fans were at an all time low.

John Keating
79 Posted 26/02/2024 at 12:56:28
I have said this for a while but I firmly believe that the players and management were and are seriously affected by the points deduction. Recent statements have confirmed this.

In my opinion, if our points deduction had not occurred, our football would not have been as it presently is.

The uncertainty of not just the initial deduction but every day we await the result of the appeal is a further nail in our coffin.

Dennis Stevens
80 Posted 26/02/2024 at 13:17:33
Not just, the initial deduction & the uncertainty of appeal outcome, John #79, but the body blow of the second charge really took the wind out of our sails, imo. After the initial positive response, it must seem like one kick in the goolies quickly followed by another for the players. Nonetheless, I still think Dyche has done a great job in keeping them up for the fight.
Geoff Lambert
81 Posted 26/02/2024 at 13:21:22
Echo saying we have got 4 points back.
Brent Stephens
83 Posted 26/02/2024 at 13:26:59
Sky and BBC STILL havent updated their league tables.
Dale Self
84 Posted 26/02/2024 at 13:58:45
No there isn’t. No it won’t.
Peter Warren
85 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:08:16
The problem about judging Dyche is that the players at his disposal are pretty abysmal. He therefore, has no choice to cut his cloth accordingly.

If we had even an even average striker or a creative midfielder I think we would be easily kid table but we don’t. You can’t argue with the defence but clearly we are very weak going forward owing to the poor quality of creative and forward players at his disposal.

I do personally think his record at home this season is abysmal and do think he is overly conservative at home. Personally, I think we would be better served pressing and having a go at every side at home and getting excitement and fear factor back. Hopefully, he learns and we get better.

Dave Lynch
86 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:22:41
Not buying it Pete...sorry mate.

We have 2 decent wingbacks, as well as Seamus and Patterson who can do bombing. Gueye and Onana in the middle and that's 4 players who canplay football and have done in an expansive team.

Dyche and his hoofball is archaic, I'm now watching Blackburn give Newcastle a fucking good game with Championship players and no a hoofball in sight.

Derek Thomas
89 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:27:35
One key enabler towards being a 'Better Coach' is to get better players. Sadly, Dyche is what we need for 'now'. The real question is how long 'now' will last.

That said, in my opinion Moyes sometimes had 'better players' but seemed to play them with 'the handbrake' on.

Dyche 'appears' to be cut from the same cloth... Oh for regular boring 7th-ish finishes...

Solve the problem in front of you / one game at a time – beat West Ham.

Anthony A Hughes
90 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:31:20
Also good coaches improve players, who of our players has Dyche improved? Mykolenko maybe? Possibly Doucoure?
Rob Jones
92 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:38:21
Dave, Sean Dyche's "archaic hoofball" is all that stands between us and a lot of pain. You speak of our decent defence, and refuse to acknowledge that for several years, it was fucking abysmal.

Mykolenko was a mediocre failure until he worked under Dyche. Patterson has still a long way to develop. Branthwaite has developed magnificently this season, and is the crown jewel in our team.

You then mention our midfield. Onana is no creator, and neither is Gana. Onana is a superb no.6 (who will look far better in a better team), while Gana is a destroyer. Our only creative player in the midfield is Gomes, and he's never going to be reliable enough. Garner is developing. McNeil is doing nothing atm, and Harrison is an overly left-footed right winger.

Beto probably deserves some games, but his finishing is atrocious. Calvert-Lewin provides a great focal point, but his finishing is atrocious.

Lampard felt he could play "progressive" football. We were dying a death until Dyche came in. Without the PSR nightmare that has so hampered our transfer dealings, Dyche has still managed to put us solidly midtable.

Everton's football has been hard to watch this season. But if either Calvert-Lewin or Beto put away even a fraction of the chances that they've had this season, we'd be in the top half on points earned. So I'll continue to back Sean Dyche, even if (as you do rightly point out), the football is considerably less than sexy.

Dave Lynch
93 Posted 27/02/2024 at 21:55:02
Rob...

The point I'm trying to make is Calvert-Lewin and Beto need service and backup, what are the stats? A striker will put 1 in 5 chances away.

Pumping the ball up to a lone man is not going to create chances, it has the opposite effect of conceding possession.

Most of our chances created are crossed balls into the box, we have scored the vast majority of our goals through set-pieces, not open play.

Rob Jones
94 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:06:37
Dave, the issue is that none of our fit players are capable of real creativity from open play. It's been that way for years and years, and has gotten worse as we've been forced to sell good players.

Honestly, the last manager I can remember us REALLY creating in open play was Martinez, and yet so much of the possession was flaccid, possession for the sake of possession, with it becoming more and more impotent as his reign carried on.

Under Koeman (especially after Lukaku was sold), Ancelotti, even Benitez, we relied upon individual moments of brilliance from players like James, Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Townsend, etc. Lampard "saving us from relegation" relied so much upon Richarlison to create goals from nothing.

The simple truth is, we have very few ballers. And that really does matter. If we're going to rely upon set pieces to keep us up, so be it. Because I don't think any manager could use this squad, provide attractive football and keep us afloat.

Beto missed a sitter on Saturday. He missed a sitter against Fulham. Calvert-Lewin can't even hit the target right now. Strikers will miss chances. I don't dispute that. But our strikers aren't doing anything at the moment. And you can't pin the blame on Dyche for that.

Dave Lynch
95 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:18:34
Again...sorry Rob.

We have "professional footballers" deemed talented enough to make a living out of the game.
How hard is it to coach a player to pass the football along the ground to another player in the same shirt??? They practice every day, for fuck's sake, mate.

I have nothing against Dyche as a human being, he's by all accounts a lovely bloke, he's also apparently a very good man manager and players respect him.

His problem is he's a bloody awful coach, imo.

Robert Tressell
96 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:24:29
Brian # 77, do you follow any football other than Everton?

Player for player we are really no better than about 15th.

Although we have some decent players, a huge part of the problem is that we lack the Number 10 and fast wide players necessary to make our 4-2-3-1(-ish) work as an attacking force.

Add Sigurdsson, Gordon and Richarlison to this side ahead of Doucoure, Harrison and McNeil and it is absolutely transformed as an attacking force.

That's what the financials have stripped us of over the past 3 years. And these are the sorts of players the likes of Forest and Bournemouth for example have been able to invest in.

And for goodness sake please don't claim (as many still do) that we've spent £30(+)M on Beto and Chermiti. It was £1.8M in Year 1 – and the investment in the past 3 seasons (even if you use the misleading £30M figures) is minus £70M. That's £250M less than Palace have invested in the same period.

And wow, the idea that Gueye is a top player because his team mates were good 2 years ago. Amazing.

Dave #95, surely your comments also apply to other teams too? They are also staffed by professional footballers?

Sam Hoare
97 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:29:27
At this point I am considerably less worried about the style than about the results.

And in terms of the results I think two things can be somewhat contradictory but true nonetheless.

Firstly, Dyche has done a good job this season and deserves a little credit. Secondly, we played better before Christmas and this current run of form is not good and needs to be halted with a win or two soon.

I think we have deserved more from our recent performances and that wins are close at hand. But if they don't come then Dyche will rightly be under pressure, it's up to him to turn solid performances and draws or ‘noble' losses into wins.

Dave Lynch
98 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:35:24
They do apply to other teams Rob but, other than Sheffield United who's manager is also rubbish, I can't think of a worse team attacking-wise than us.
Robert Tressell
99 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:38:04
Can you think of any that are worse defensively or with fewer than 31 points?
Mark Murphy
100 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:41:21
“Worse defensively”??
Our defence is top four!
Rob Jones
101 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:42:31
Sam, in the last nine games, we've played:

Man City (2),
Spurs (2),
Fulham (A),
Brighton (A),
Wolves (A),
Villa (H),
Palace (H).

Except for Palace (who sat back on us, which we're weak against), not one of those are easy fixtures. Arguably should have won away at Fulham and Brighton, had Beto not missed absolute fucking sitters. Against all but Wolves (who are 8th, and superb at Molineux), we've put in decent performances.

We also lacked Doucoure in most of them, a massive loss, and whose absence we seem to have no answer for.

We will improve.

Stuart Sharp
104 Posted 27/02/2024 at 22:58:34
How hard is it to coach a player to pass the football along the ground to another player in the same shirt?

Does that need coaching at this level? I always thought football players should be able to do that before they get to the top flight.

Our players have been consistently poor at it since way before Dyche. Besides, isn't it Woan and Stone who do much of the coaching?

Robert Tressell
105 Posted 27/02/2024 at 23:02:49
Mark #100, that's my point.

[I was responding to Dave #98.]

Mark Murphy
106 Posted 27/02/2024 at 23:05:58
Sorry Rob - I was flicking between the Blackburn game and on here.
All the best and UTFT
Alan McGuffog
107 Posted 28/02/2024 at 08:19:11
Stuart... absolutely spot on.

I have no real idea what "coaching" involves but it shouldn't be about trapping, controlling and passing the bloody thing. Those skills should be in place when we sign them on as 2-year-olds!

Andy Crooks
108 Posted 28/02/2024 at 11:45:01
Stuart, I also don't get that we have left-footed or right-footed players. It drives me nuts that anyone making a living as a footballer is not brilliant with both feet. For fuck's sake, we practised it at school.
Sean Kearns
109 Posted 11/03/2024 at 15:30:03
Dyche is doing a terrific job and we are playing good football, making lots of chances, and it's entertaining… please do pull up our match stats and compare to Rafa and Frank.

Shots, shots on target, clean sheets. We are light-years better and this article is nonsense. Anyone watching our matches and thinking we are shite is deluded. We are far from it… We just have a depressingly shite choice of cenre-forwards and not very much luck.

It's not Dyche's fault our players are kinda shite, in fact that's the very reason he was brought in!!! Pep, the German coke head across the park, nor Zinedine Zidane could have made Dom score the 1 on 1 against Villa, or Beto score the penalty vs West Ham, or Onana score the penalty against Fulham…

See where I'm going with this??


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