Are FABs for football clubs ever independently established, self-administered and self-funded by the fans themselves?

And if not, how do they ever escape the perception among some fans that they're just tools to be manipulated by a cynical ownership?

But the truth is sadly that it failed. Not because of the members but because of the lip service to a board who had no intention of giving up or listening to anyone other than themselves.

It remains as a reminder of those previously in charge and carries a guilt by association tag despite doing all they could to change the direction of the board. They are yesterday's men.

But that is not to say the very nature and structure of a fans voice is without value and I firmly believe they need to drop the baggage of FAB and morph into something else that doesn't have the memories of darker days.

Fresh beginnings.

FAB may well be mandated but was it a way of trying to circumvent the need for an independent regulator?

ps: Thank you, Michael, for the well balanced article, I did ponder at the time about submitting this as a stand alone article but life got in the way and I let it get lost in all the other news.

Fan Boards were a blatant Premier League attempt to forestall 'Independent Regulation' and for me the only positive in support of this Bill is the Premier League's rabid opposition to it.

I know I'm cynical when it comes to Government control, especially when they're of the 'spend and tax' sort we have now. Pardon me if I seem less than enthusiastic on FABs in general and Government regulation In particular. I for one am always worried when I here the phrase, “I'm from the Government and I'm here to help.”

You don't think so? Then ask yourself how are some Ministers doing, how's Rachel from Accounts doing, how's the Economy nowadays.

How's the NHS? Defence and Migration? More Admirals than ships in one and in the other, a couple of dozen guys in a rubber 'kin boat seem to make it across the Channel on an almost daily basis while the French just give it the old Gallic shrug.

The road to hell will may indeed be paved with good intentions but it will also be strewn with unintended consequences.

Mega-wealthy people and enterprises have for decades seen that the Premier League is a very good vehicle to grow their own wealth on the back of exploiting anyone at all. And they've done it, and continue to do it.

That said, it's never been quite so easy for them in other places has it, such as Germany for instance, where those managing football have long since had meaningful constraints on megalomaniacs interested only in themselves?

The greed and corruption has reached such a scale that the world is now being run by dictators backed by expensive military and weapons and the power-hungry rats know no bounds.

70 or 80 years ago, would the world have stood by and just tutted at the Russian invading and murder of Ukrainians and the disgraceful starvation and murder of women and kids in Palestine?

Back to club level, does anyone think TFG are going to be more open than the pair of muppets they replaced? All this crap about “We are only the custodians” is hogwash.

Did FAB have any influence on the decision to go from £35 to £60 for a club membership that has even less benefits than previous years while charging for every friendly game shown on Everton TV that used to be included in the membership? I don't believe they even raised the issue.

No… they (TFG) are in full control of the club and show it in no uncertain terms.

They're not the first American owners of an English club are they? History is very likely to repeat in our case… ie, sadly, FSG won't give two hoots about what we want.

Believe it or not, US companies and politicians are the world's best listeners. There is no tradition in the US simply bending to authority and doing what one is told. That was the cause of the American Revolution. Americans elect the members of the upper house and directly elect the president.

Congressmen are up for election every 2 years and they generally listen to the wishes of the electorate. I have worked for British and US companies and the Americans are much more focused on customer satisfaction.

There is nothing to be lost in letting TFG know what we want and they will understand that it is in their best interests to listen.

I was both encouraged and sceptical about the FAB when it was first announced. Encouraged that we, the supporters, may have a voice that could convey the feelings of Evertonians to the board for consideration. Let's face it, we won't be making decisions, but can have a voice.

Sceptical, because there was always a danger of it being a token gesture by the board and have little influence or voice.

I don't mean to criticise anyone who has represented and continues to take their own time and effort to represent us on the FAB. It just feels like it has been unable to wield the influence that was hoped for and intended.

As you and others know, I applied twice to become a representative on the FAB. The first time, I was pretty much dismissed. This time around, I received a more detailed response, praising my credentials in the bio I submitted, but that there were stronger candidates. I was in good company, as existing FAB member, Dave Kelly had his bid for re-election dismissed.

Maybe I'm too much of a supporter, but I thought that was the idea?

Unfortunately, we only have to look across Stanley Park to see the influence the Sprirt of Shankly group has over our neighbours, despite, to my knowledge, not formally sitting within the club. Correct that if I'm wrong, but they have a voice that is heard.

Maybe TFG or their board will listen more to the FAB. Time will tell. Or maybe, as Tony Abrahams suggested a few weeks ago, we should follow suit and have an independent fans group that pulls together the various groups out there. A united coalition of the like-minded.

Since my rejection, I received an unprompted message from the club relating to my FAB application asking if I wanted to become part of the new Fans Forum. It sounds similar, so I responded, but I'm yet to hear back.

I'd be honoured to represent the supporters I talk to and stand with in any capacity. Right now, I feel the independent route may give the group more of a vocal influence.

Looking outside of football politics, look at the sterling work and impact the 1878s had with their flag and banner displays. They achieved that off their own backs and now the club has jumped on it.

I would definitely become a fully paid up member of a proper organised fan group though. A group that could unite, rather than divide (not easy) would be definitely worth paying into, imo.

Trouble is, the bigger the Board, the more diverse the opinions… and the harder it might be to get a viable consensus?

Especially if, as seems to happen 'all the usual suspects' get elected.

Just whose version of 'The Consensus' would it be? Mine, yours or that guy that pops up on here and talks total shite (which might be any one of us some days)???

Would the reverse apply, would a smaller 5, 7 or 9 person Board be able to truly represent, the mythical 'Us'

Personally I would like TFG to replace FAB with a rebranded structure, a new set of commitments on both sides and a set of representatives that can actually do that, represent.

They need to put their mouth were their money is. Likewise minor shareholders should not be made irrelevant, they too are proud fans.

It's easier to work together than in opposition.

Honestly Michael, I don't think you are here for praise – well not off people like me, anyway – but this is what ToffeeWeb should be used for, because moving forward then I think it's massively important that Evertonians should form a genuine independent fan group or movement, so they are never divided and conquered ever again.

We the fans are a cash cow to be milked, though that importance to clubs’ financial well being is becoming less and less. The only way fans could have a real say, is if they own a large amount of shares and an owner only 49.9%. Then we'd see just how much they really like football.

In my opinion, they are not lovers of football but – as always – the money they can make and the ego trip it gives them.

Try and approach the Friedkins or Moshiris of this world in a restaurant and see how far you get. They live in a bubble and wouldn't want it polluted by the likes of us.

For example, the majority owner with 49% simply has to convince a few other invested parties and members to vote in their favour to get a strategy or policy through. It does control it slightly better though.

The Glazers should never have been allowed to buy Manchester United with such a leveraged purchase, whereas Liverpool got very lucky getting rid of Hicks & Gillette… but will they be so lucky next time?

From the outside looking in, it looks like the Premier League's elite have become that rich and expensive to buy that very few people will be able own them anymore without putting a lot of debt on the club.

Man Utd fans have been trying for decades to remove the Glazers, and still nowhere near removing them despite numerous protests. The Spurs fans have been trying to oust Levy for a long time, and he is stronger now than he has been for a long time.

So a FAB has very limited persuasion of what it can achieve, it will never achieve regime change and possibly nor should it.

We can't even persuade our Council or club to improve parking around our new ground — in fact, they have put in more restrictions that make it harder for fans.

Well, I say 'all'… I started working backwards and came unstuck at May 2025. Nothing doing: "The page can't be found". Having struggled to assimilate June 2025 — it's a very hard read if you don't have a good mind for acronyms and initials — the interesting dichotomy to observe is that meeting minutes are split into two groups: those involving the club, and those not.

There was some agreement, I think, that they would meet with club representatives, was it 4 times a year? So every 3 months. Well, a lot of the scheduled meetings with the club over the past year appear to have been struck off… I assume this means the meetings were cancelled?

The last one there took place in November 2024. There appear to have been no meetings between the FAB and the Club since the TFG takeover — more than 6 months ago!

It went almost un-noticed at the time, but Everton's debt position suddenly increased by around £15M. The amount True Blue Holdings paid for the club? £15M.

Probably just a coincidence, but enquiring minds, etc, etc.

Valid point, hence earlier comments, the FAB has unfortunately, and through no fault of those who have tried, have tried hard, but don't have the teeth.

That's why I'm more inclined to have an independent body of Everton supporters groups.

They won't make final decisions, but it may get listened to more by the new owners than the previous ownership, who cut us off and disowned us. I'll move on, I know they had challenges, but cutting off the one thing that kept this club going is just unforgivable in my own head.

I have no idea what we'd call it, but I think we could be more influential on the outside than inside and might get listened to. As with politics, the people will speak and the leaders eventually have to listen, otherwise it's like cutting off your lifeline.

Apologies again. I get overly emotional, but at the same time critical when needed. That's what a life of supporting something that has been ingrained into you from your first living memories does. I struggle to understand those who don't. But I can do my best to convince them what is in the stands and the forums.

As the saying goes, we were blessed with two ears and one mouth. Therefore, listen twice as much as you speak and learn. Especially from those who have lived this from the cradle and will take it to the grave.

Well, once we win another title, European trophy, FA Cup and that fucking League Cup!!!

Remember when the Fisher-Price crest was announced?

My memory is that, in less than a week, thousands and thousands had signed a 'Get fuuuccking rid!' petition and a decision was swiftly made to get rid. (Yes, I know it took a year before we actually got to see the back of it, but I remember thinking I'm glad I signed.)

Also, it may not have been KEIOC who... er... Kept EIOC, but I suggest only the very churlish would argue their pressure and campaigning played no part in holding fat-head and fat-head to account (and their feet to the fire).

I suppose (looking back) the similarity between both of these protests (?) is that those involved couldn't be pressured by the club because they were independent of the club.

Just a thought.

I'm not sure if there is any way of sharing an image on ToffeeWeb, if I scan in the covering letter. Otherwise (if there is sufficient interest) I will type it in. Given my typing speed it should only take half an hour!

The "Fisher Price" crest was laughably justified as being more suitable for digital reproduction.

And it was KEIOC that lobbied hard against the Kirkby move. They worked night and day, even presenting evidence at the Inquiry, against a backdrop of criticism from the club and other fans.

I've long believed that Destination Kirkby was our "Brexit" moment, minus the £350M a week to spend on players' wages. That whole period created a divide in the fanbase - often reflected on these very pages, I felt - and I don't think some of those wounds have healed.

When the decision went against them, Kim Jong Bill simply shrugged his shoulders – almost like he knew it would've been a disastrous millstone around the club's neck... (FWIW the real crime was the failure to land Kings' Waterfront, for what now looks like chicken feed compared to what the BMD / HDS whatever has cost).

So first leveraged buyout? And a "Brexit" moment before Brexit? More firsts for Everton! Get that Wikipedia page updated.

I think you will find that figure was £20M, the amount Peter Johnson was paid for his shares.

We also saw a sudden jump in "other" operating expenses and a net loss whereas most years under Johnson we had made a profit.

From inheriting a net asset position, Kenwright very quickly ran the club into net liability.

Unfortunately, even the German 49% model can be subverted by commercial interests as in the case of RB Leipzig which, against all the rules, is 100% owned by Red Bull.

After having failed to take over numerous clubs, including Hamburg, St. Pauli and 1860 Munich, after fan protests and official rules on corporate names being added to a club they settled for buying a minor club, FC Markranstädt, which was over 10 miles outside Leipzig and played in the fifth tier. The required playing licences were acquired with the club.

The club was re-named RasenBallsport Leipzig (which translates to Leipzig Lawnsports) and all seven founding members were employees, or associates of Red Bull.

Job done. RB Leipzig was up and running, They'd got around all the football and corporate naming regulations and within a decade were playing in the Champions League.

Regarding that non-move to Kirkby, a lady got on Radio Merseyside about 12 months before the move went to an inquiry and made about six points on why the move would be ruled out. I don't know if she was a member of any group against the move but she was proved right.

This lady, getting on a bit, was a regular on Radio Merseyside, giving her views on the away games she attended and she knew her football okay. I always looked forward to her coming on the radio with her solid views of how we performed. She never gave her opinion of what she thought of the owner then but I'd guess it wasn't a very favourable one.

KEIOC wasn't looked on in a favourable way by the average Everton fan, in fact, they were laughed at and Sharp was one of those who, in his position as a puppet for the owner, openly mocked them.

KEIOC was made up of plenty of professional Evertonians, solicitors, businessmen, doctors etc and they proved too strong for Kenwright and his supporters. Yet, when it was all over, Kenwright had the cheek to say he was glad the move failed.

For much of the time, I had a feeling I was pissing in the wind but felt I had to do the only thing I could do (ie, post why I thought the move might kill Everton).

I had actually decided that, should the club decide to relocate to Kirkby, that would be me finished and I intended to follow any version of an AFC Everton that might result.

The accusation - "So you'd abandon Everton?" - had no cut-through and my response was "the other way around, you mean".

However, when it was called in, I read pieces by people on the site who (more or less) assured me that, if everything was above board, the travel 'plans' alone would be enough to scupper the move.

I followed the case every day and read all the available transcripts and it was genuinely amaaaaaazing how tin-pot and badly thought-out the whole 'plan' was (and how badly and amateurishly run Everton FC was).

One final thought.

When I'm so bored, I reject my own (good?) advice and I decide to look at the Everton NewsNow thingy, I'll often see a clip of Keith Wyness talking about some Everton-related matter.

I find this very odd because when he was actually employed by Everton (especially at the time of Kirkby), the lisping oaf with a head the size of a lodging house cat didn't think for a second to let us know what the fuck was going on.

His was most definitely a leveraged buyout even though he eventually found us (himself) a billionaire.

Every single time I drive past Destination Kirkby, I see the ghost of Bill Kenwright, and think to myself, you was actually prepared to let the club you professed to love build a new stadium here?

Thank god for KEIOC and The Blue Union; otherwise, the deceitful bastard would have had us dying a very slow painful death in Donkey Fuckn Derby.

The people involved with both KEIOC and The Blue Union both took a lot of stick (which was, behind closed doors, actively encouraged by the owner) and this more than anything should encourage Evertonians to move away from the club and create their own independent group.

But nothing like that, Christine, I'm afraid. There's an old quirk in the system whereby those links at the bottom of the story (above the first comment) only show when it's classed as a News story.

But I was being lazy, I suppose. I can type the links in at the bottom of the sorry and have it show again as a Editorial Column. (Op-Ed, as the Yanks would have it!)

I was hoping for a more nuanced discussion than the Hitler - Holocaust diversion (subsequently deleted) but I doubt if it's really a topic that's get too many of our readers exercised... even though you might argue that it should.

Tony mentions KEIOC and The Blue Union, and craves some united Evertonian Fifth Column to emerge… even from these pages. But I'm quite sure that just ain't gonna happen.

A follow-up question to the piece might be to ask why we still have a Fans Forum that is also coordinated by the club, along with the FAB? At a cursory glance, there seems to be a lot of duplication there.

Yet it is the FAB – an entity the club must perpetuate under law – to which they have granted the pretence of 'independence' to the extent of them having their own website and conducting most of their meetings with no club involvement.

And then there is the problem of diversity amongst the fanbase in terms of the vast array of opinions on every aspect of the club. Akin to herding cats when it comes to taking collective independent action, I'm afraid, however 'united' we may appear to be.

"Communication, co-ordination and Integration of fans and shareholders"

It would be interesting to see how we rate, I think there used to be a fan engagement index but it appears no longer functional.. an omen perhaps?

As for the other snide Keith Wyness he knew everything that was going on and was well paid to keep his mouth shut when he resigned and was in a good position to reveal all that was going on with Thingy and Green running the club.

Everyone talks about Oxford away, being a turning point for our great team of the eighties (unite number 1) but one of my best memories was the replay at Goodison.

We had just gone a few goals up and it started snowing, and I remember thinking to myself how different it felt from just a few weeks before because even though it was snowing, everyone was happy and Goodison Pk, suddenly felt so warm.

I remember Big Joe Royle, doing something similar for a while, (Unite number two - I still smile at my late Nana, who couldn’t believe I hadn’t backed Everton for the cup!) and even though it wasn’t pleasant fighting relegation, the way the fans united, when we were in real trouble, was very unique and simply awe-inspiring, for me.

I have only one truly great Everton image, since Dave Watson, lifted the cup against Man Utd, and that image is Richarlison, holding aloft a blue flare, on a day when the Evertonians, showed everyone what happens, when the Goodison crowd truly unites💙

Maybe the difference is explained best by a photographer who made a book about football stadiums.

In his words he said that just because we are from the same city, it doesn’t mean that Evertonians and Liverpudlians, are the same.

He said although Anfield, is truly awe-inspiring, when the Liverpool fans get right behind their team, it was Goodison Pk, that he would have feared playing at, if he was a player.

The Everton crowd is very aggressive and also very, very funny, especially when they want to chip away at the opposition, he wrote, and from his vantage point at the edge of the pitch, he had saw quite a few players wilt.

Maybe our fans want it that much, that this unique pressure has been felt by our own players, rather than the opposition, and has worked against us at times?

We have also had owners who we have let work against us with division, and when I look across the park, the Liverpool fan group SOS, definitely seem to have a lot more respect and might even be slightly feared, by the Liverpool owners?

Eg

1) When muttering "for fuck's sake Harrison, get past him!", try to get some real resignation into your accompanying head shake.

2) Should the score be 0-0 after five minutes, you're obliged to look around at your fellow blues and exclaim "What's Moyes waitin' for - he needs to get Beto off and get Chermiti on!"

3) When certain Everton players are injured on more than one occasion, you must strongly hint/infer/imply that this is somehow their fault, maybe adding something along the lines "his fucking bottle's gone."

Etc blah.

(who's got too much time on his hands?)

I agree with Tony. It is possible to unite the fan base as much through adversity as through success. I also agree and have said myself, that the SOS across the Park is a good example of an independent supporters organisation that influences the club.

I would use the second half of last season as another, probably less extreme example. After a testing first half and traumas of the past few seasons, it started becoming enjoyable to go and watch Everton again.

And yes, same city, but very different.

I think it is possible to unite the supporters. Maybe not everyone, but if you hit 80%, that's a loud united voice. One thing I would add is when you are with the away support and see them on the concourses, it is much closer to 100%.

I've seen it the other way recently. It was nearly 100% towards the end of the ill-fated Benitez days. Likewise, although not everyone marched, there was almost unanimous support in getting the board out and a change of ownership, although even that could have taken a wrong turn (777).

Last one for Tony. I was in the Midlands for Christmas and New Year 1994 into 1995 visiting the in-laws. We walked past a bookies (no mobile phone apps back then). I noted that Everton were 33-1 to win the FA Cup. I suggested to the wife I might put £10 on that, but met resistance, so didn't.

We wore blue socks that season too. Well blue/black.

I celebrated his last game as I went down the stairs of the Upper Bullens Stand thinking “ Free at Last, Free at Last, Free at Last!

Little did I know!

One would hope it's because the communication structure with the board is having an overhaul.. cough, cough.. so if the club is inactive with FAB, is a new process underway or do TFG see no value in it?

In which case, right now, what are the FAB doing? Why are they unreachable for selected areas of the club on their website?

Really deserves an update on current status with the new owners.

Dave, I didn't feel any sense of loss when Moyes left. I saw it as a positive, which turned out different. There are well-formed and deeper rooted reasons for that.

Disappointed when he came back, but gave us a lift. If he wins us a trophy in his potential remaining 2 seasons, he can leave with his head held high and get a more deserved send-off.

New Fan Advisory Board Members Confirmed

You might just have given the wrong impression when you promised to Speak Truth to Power — no one wants to hear that these days!

And I think they might be better looking (at least the bloke on the left)... although I think we should have Annika make the final decision.

'Cos I see from Michael's links there are six 'reserved' positions on the FAB, and four fan votes, and one other (?)

I assume those reserved positions elect within their own organisation? But is there a defined structure that dictates who? what? and how many? groups should be included?

Consumers have little control over the suppliers of the product they wish to buy, other than to boycott, or move to an alternative supplier.

We don't tend to do that. If we do, there is a queue of people behind us, probably prepared to spend far more money.

It's a cracking business model, but I fear what that means for us will become starkly clear over the next few years.

That's on Manchester United, not the Glazers.

Once United decided to publicly list themselves, they were open to anyone for purchase, leveraged or not. If it wasn't the Glazers, it would certainly have been someone else, better or worse.

As far as the FAB, I really didn't care. I could see an FAB working with a lower division club but with one of the Premier League clubs? No chance. I don't think the owners care that much about what the fans think as long as they continue to consume the product.

I hope The Friedkin Group is different when it comes to supporter engagement but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

We had not long been to pre-season Bruge in 82 and Dordtrecht in 83 and there wasnt any reason to beleive that we were getting any better as a team. Come Oxford standing on their Cuckoo Lane end, whilst incidentally being pelted with coins by a load of shithouse non-entities, Mr Brock provided us with his famous back pass.

Come the replay at Goodison we wellied them and I couldn't believe that this was basically the same side that had struggled for the previous 18 months.

Who can forget the Coventry game not long before when the Echo headline said "Sign of the times at Goodison" whilst showing an attendance of 8,500!! The point being that whatever happened after Oxford away was only halted by events that overtook us, thanks to Heysel.

If that was the Coventry game, at the end of December 2013, the attendance was around 13,000.