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Skip (Kirkby) to the Loop

By Chris Multesanti :  01/08/2007 :  Comments (49) :

The Loop site is without doubt the best site for Everton?s new stadium. If the board fail to exploit this option, they will all be accountable for committing an unprecedented travesty to all fans of Everton Football Club. This will be explained shortly, but, firstly, why should we discount the forcing out of EFC to Kirkby?

It's not easy to summarise what it means to us to be part of this club, but I can safely say that I understand all that Everton means to me and my family, even if I can?t always express it. Part of my fabric as an Everton fans tells me that, before reviewing the stadium relocation in any detail, it just doesn?t feel right to even consider the plan to go to Kirkby. I would feel a great sense of loss and know that most Evertonians would feel cheapened if we are forced into a ground move that is effectively hollow, removed and quite possibly commercially destructive ? it could seriously damage the future status of our club.

And before any Kirkby "Yes" voters say, "there?s no alternative," well, firstly, don?t panic. There may not be one on the table today by the club, but there is a very real alternative and with the right level of commitment by the club over the coming months they will champion it too ? we will all embrace a site in the heart of Everton that could also be a co-financed move. We have waited almost a decade to decide on where to go, is 6 months going to hurt you? I fully support the "No" to Kirkby vote now, and will vote "Yes" to a move that suits the fan base in a few months.

If the board proves it is not conscientious, or if it is not a professional outfit, then perhaps Kirkby is the only choice, but I challenge them to prove that they are professional and would like to give them a chance to prove that after a "No" vote they still have the means to think beyond the desires of a retail giant.

At the moment that?s what is happening, we are being forced to support the desires of a retail giant.

At present, because it is so straight-forward to move to Kirkby we are being moulded to feel it?s the only way to go. It is for that reason that I cannot stomach the flippant comparisons being made between the proposed Kirkby stadium and Old Trafford?s location in Manchester. By making that comparison, Mr Wyness is just appearing 1. new, 2. naïve and 3. obnoxious, particularly by saying this on our website (not his) and preaching to the unconvertible.

Those who know a bit of local geography know that Kirkby is perceived as a much further distance from the centre of our city in comparison to the sports grounds that surround Manchester, and they also know that Manchester is in effect a circle and Liverpool an elongated conurbation so there is an awful lot of soulless green space between the Pier Head and Kirkby central! Much more relevant too, is that Old Trafford is a Manchester United fan's spiritual home. How can Mr Wyness, who however much he tries to sound like one of us, think that his quotes will help his cause. (By the way he supports Southampton and Aberdeen). He just shows a sincere lack of professionalism and understanding here.

A factual point that cannot be disputed is that Kirkby is not just beyond the city boundaries of Liverpool, its' beyond the city?s suburb boundaries. It is its own town, completely removed from our city and it has nothing to do with Everton Football Club. If Evertonians wish to have a Wigan Derby then vote "Yes" to the move, otherwise it remains completely logical to not be pressured, vote NO.

Enough negative psychology by the board?

The Loop Site ? It's an Open Goal

Here follow 15 reasons why a move to Scotland Road?s Loop is critical to Everton?s future, and why it has to be urgently considered as the new ?only option? for our new ground:

  1. Directors Duty: (note to Kenwright and Wyness):
    Great work has begun at the Loop ? in so far as the site owners, Bestway, have put forward a plan to develop this unique location into a football stadium. It is in Everton. They have started an initiative to bring a plan to the board. That means it is a real opportunity, black and white. This point alone means it cannot in any way be ignored by the Directors of EFC. It is the legal and moral duty of a football club Director to operate in the fans? best interests and we are a fanbase painfully hoping that our new stadium is within the city.
  2. It is geographically feasible:
    The geographic scale of the land site for both a stadium and a handful of peripheral commercial buildings is ideal. This means once again that we can incorporate other developer ? partners alongside Bestway and our own stadium financing plan.
  3. Ownership:
    The central location puts us firmly at the forefront of football and commerce in Liverpool city centre. We can not only be proud of a home ground at this location but its setting in an ever-developing, dynamic city centre means it will be seen as part of the modern blueprint (sorry!) in a commercially progressive city.
  4. Tesco are the driving force behind Kirkby:
    This may be the most relevant point of them all. By aggressively exploiting this opportunity at The Loop, and making it happen, Kenwright can prove that he is a different type of businessman than the one many see him currently to be. At present it seems he is far too hip-joined with the Tesco CEO and it all feels a bit too shady. Like everyone he appears to do business with, he counts Leahy as a close personal friend; you don?t have to be the cleverest Evertonian to know that the Kirkby move is unfortunately one of utter convenience for the two.

    It seems very pre-mediated and driven from a Tesco standpoint - that alone is enough for the No vote.

    Kenwright self-confesses to working with ?great pals? and ?mates? and like most of us who operate at (perhaps slightly) lower rungs of the commercial ladder, he is susceptible to taking the short cut or the easy route to getting things done. If there was much less at stake, fine, take the easy route because it?s a bit quicker, life?s pretty short and you only live once etc.

    However when it involves the total displacement and undermining of Everton Football Club, the easy route is not good enough, nor remotely acceptable. It is neither responsible nor best practice. If he and the man who seems to be fronting the project (K. Wyness) could prove that they are up for the hard work of delivering a central city stadium, then they deserve to stay in their incumbent positions. If they do not look at The Loop as a very viable option, their resignations will be demanded by the thousands who have a stake in the club.
  5. Not being beaten:
    Liverpool FC?s recent unveiling of their own plans really has put a ?now beat that? message to us. If it hasn?t, it should have. With our budgets we may never build a stadium quite so contemporary nor quite so big and we need not do either, but Mr Kenwright, don?t underestimate Location in a two-club city. A Loop-based stadium will be far more evident to most of the city. Plus, just imagine this scenario, ? if Liverpool fail with their planning permission for a much larger capacity stadium at Stanley Park, guess what, they may well look at the Loop.
  6. Club?s Status and Image:
    By developing at this unrivalled site we can be one-up on Liverpool FC. The nation?s visiting supporter (100,000 fans per season) will identify Everton?s ground as the sporting architecture in the heart of the city. Where else do you put the home of the People?s club?
  7. Attendances:
    We will fill our stadium if we stay central. We will retain 100% of the indigenous fanbase we currently have and attract a new crowd that feel happy with visiting a ground that is more fan- friendly (the stadium effect). No risk of pockets of empty seats. Moving to Kirkby however, is likely to be a large embarrassment because on telly our national and international image will be one of a club that cannot draw a decent gate.

    Personal Footnote: as a London-based blue, who has done some canvassing on the trains with fellow Virgin super-savers at the end of last season, I know for a fact that the extra 40 mins or so each way to Kirkby at the end of the Lime Street journey ? at best because road congestion is predicted to be drastic! ? will prove a big time and cost barrier to many of the 900 or so Blues using this route to home games.
  8. Access:
    The road system at Scotty supports the capacity of a 50,000 stadium. There is actually better access here than the Kirkby site would have. Imagine the queuing off the motorway and singular A road at Kirkby? Anyone been to Reading away recently?

    By re-locating within the city the club will also maintain its matchday ?walk-up? crowd which Everton can boast as the biggest in the Premiership. This crowd is lost with the Kirkby move, and all those walkers (thank god for spell-check) will become drivers and that?s not a jam I want to be in form the city centre!
  9. Earning power:
    It is a no-brainer that revenues will be higher when operating a stadium in the centre of a large city than one in a rural part of Merseyside. The Loop?s unbeatable position within the city will give Everton the kudos to really sell ourselves in the future as the team at the heartbeat of the city, to both commercial prospects, matchday corporate sponsors, corporate season ticket holders and even players considering joining the club.. they are human!.
  10. Being proud of our club:
    The Loop is a real destination. Visible from all parts of the centre, the first thing seen from the tunnel, and ?down the road? from Scouser?s front doors. Something all fans will hold dear to them with pride.
  11. Brand:
    The marketing people at the club, if they so wish, will be able continue to play off the Peoples Club mantra (which I personally think is slightly over-used) and moreover we Evertonians will feel we have a stake in a stadium that operates on the doorstep of the people that love the club so dearly. It made me chuckle to see ?The People?s Club? emblazoned across the architect?s impression of the Kirkby stadium ? note to Wyness: Moyes was referring to blue shirts on the streets of Liverpool not Kirkby! Who signed these designs off?
  12. Loss of identity:
    Kirkby ensures this. I strongly believe that Evertonians will not be held to ransom and end up being a fan base ridiculed for its new routes. Let's not walk into this one, this may never happen but imagine if we were 1-0 down to Derby with 2 minutes to go and there were away chants of ?you?re just a small town in Wigan? ? it?ll hurt beyond belief! It's been bad enough trying to regain the credibility on the pitch over the last decade, if we lost our off-pitch identity what do we have?
  13. Football clubs progress but stay true to their roots:
    A new stadium at Scotland Road will be within our original birthplace as a football club and therefore aspirational to current and future generations of Blues. Imagine the difficulty of maintaining let alone extending Everton?s fan base through future generations if we are out of site and mind of our heritage. If we had a bad league run our fan base would erode at dramatic pace.
  14. LCC will support it:
    Yes finally! We have been assured that the Loop programme will get the right sort of momentum from local government and anything we submit now will have to get positive council support, as they know that after everything they have done with Stanley Park, LCC will be seen as supporting only one of the city?s clubs if they proved stubborn in any way.
  15. Today I LOVE Goodison Park.
    The Loop site will have a soul as well as a purpose and could fill the Goodison void ? I can see how we will truly LOVE it.

    We will not ever LOVE a Kirkby stadium. We may even HATE a Kirkby stadium.

Reader Comments

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John Fitzpatrick
1   Posted 05/08/2007 at 06:13:03

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brilliant piece of writing one of the best cases put forward so far
Paul M Jones
2   Posted 05/08/2007 at 07:49:45

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Point 12, enough said.
bernie connor
3   Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:30:55

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absolutely spot on in every count, chris. every day i spend hours hunched over a keyboard and mouse, head in hands while i digest the the thousands of words on the myriad reasons why we shouldn’t move to kirkby. and the closer we get to the vote the more it feels like the will of the fanbase will be ignored or dismissed as fantasy. wyness and kenwright appear to want to steam-roller this through come what may and with this in mind i fear for the club’s history and tradition. all the arguments for the loop sound plausible and -if we’re honest- the ideal plan b. however, we shouldn’t really lose sight of the fact that nbothing usually stands in the way of big business and the board’s over enthusiastic and blinkered willingness to climb into bed with tesco will surely carry the vote eventually. selling our birthright for a handful of magic beans that may or may not produce a magic beanstalk is foolish at best. grocery chains serve communities in very different ways to football clubs. your loyalty to tesco may stretch to clubcard points of geographical convenience, loyalty to everton football club of course, runs much deeper than they will ever know. what’s our name?
John Gimmo
4   Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:36:17

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a great piece and another lump in the throat, I have changed my mind on this about twenty times and everytime someone put the emotional side of leaving I get goose bumps, I will vote no, but like everything else at Everton it will be a fiddle or a lie, "The loop" would be a dream come true, closer to the city than the shite, imagine we would have one over on that shower and I think "The Loop" is the name for the new stadium...the motto that is tattooed on my arm and many others must count for something...NO VOTE FOR ME...thanks to all who have made me think straight..
Jordan Wood
5   Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:44:46

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I’m currently pro Kirby, but this article is very interesting and the loop should be looked at seriously! if it isn’t, then I think a lot of fans will vote against the move to Kirby and loose total faith in the board. Still don’t like point 5 though. It’s a little pathetic, and is the main point usually made by the anti Kirby following. It’s boring and pathetic, stop using it.
6   Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:40:27

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None of this aricle makes any sense. What is Bestway are they a charitable organisation who are going to give the loop to EFC for nothing. Are they not at all interested in profit. Why are we so scared to get involved with one of the most profitable companies Tesco. Better that than relying on some Americans who have a baseball team. Wyness and Kenwright have shown themselves to be great businessmen. If you get Tesco on board rather than Bestway who nobody has heard of. If Liverpool want the loop they will outbid EFC and we will end up with nothing. We will still be the peoples club. The peoples club is not just about Liverpool City Council. If EFC can not compete with its rivals they will become the peoples club to fewer and fewer people. I think KEIOC is a slightly conservative reactionary group who can not face up to change. I would love to stay at Goodison for ever but life ain’t what it used to be. Do we want to miss out on an opportunity due to inertia and fear of change.
7   Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:22:09

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Sorry, but the Director’s sole legal responsibility is to the shareholders, not the fans, and that responsibility is to always act for the shareholders’ financial benefit.

Having said that, there are three points you could have used here to support the Loop over Kirky, two of which relate back to other points in the article, but I think it’s worth pointing them out to highlight why the board have to seriously investigate the Loop option.

  • It is self-evident that the Loop site provides greater potential for increasing turnover through non-match day activities. While business in Kirkby is growing, it has nothing like the level of business activity present in the centre of Liverpool, nor will it for the forseeable future. Ongoing and future redevelopment plans for the city centre will only increase this. Bottom line, a Loop Stadium will bring in more money than Kirkby.
  • Regardless of the final outcome of the vote, it is clear to all of us that a large number of our fans customer base will be disaffected and upset by the move. Keith Wyness claims we will attract new fans from the Lancashire area (whilst perversely also claiming that Kirkby will be within the ’Liverpool City Region’ whatever that is!), butwe don’t actually know that these potential fans will become real ones or not until they actually start turning up and supporting the team. If they don’t, the business will have deliberately and knowingly discarded a portion of their most loyal customers. How is that beneficial to the shareholders?
  • Although the board have no legal responsibility, I do believe they have a moral responsibility to the fans.

If you haven’t guessed already, I agree with you 100%, but given some of the debate on this and other sites over the last couple of weeks, if I didn’t point out the issue in point 1, I could imagine someone in the ’yes’ camp using it to trash your whole article. So other than that, 10/10, well done in articulating the argument so thoroughly.
Peter Mitchell
8   Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:16:56

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One thing worries me about the calls for investigating alternatives sites in Liverpool - Liverpool City Council. Just look at the recent debacle of the music festival, which has made national news and made them a laughing stock. Can we trust them to deliver? If not, we could waste further years whilst Goodison (and the team) rot around us, with no end result.
9   Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:43:37

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@Ron Leith

None of this aricle makes any sense.
Maybe English isn’t your first language, to me it makes some valid points very coherently (before you get too upset, imagine a little smiley winking face after the first part of that sentence).
What is Bestway are they a charitable organisation who are going to give the loop to EFC for nothing. Are they not at all interested in profit. Why are we so scared to get involved with one of the most profitable companies Tesco.
Replace Bestway with Tesco and the Loop with Kirkby, and think about it a little. If Tesco are getting something out of Kirkby, is it impossible that Bestway see an opportunity to get the same out of the Loop? On the other hand, if you’re so sure Bestway can’t help themselves while helping Everton, how can you believe that Tesco can?
Better that than relying on some Americans who have a baseball team.
I didn’t realise Bestway are already involved in sport in the states. Oh, you mean LFC’s new owners - what the hell has that got to do with anything?
Wyness and Kenwright have shown themselves to be great businessmen.
Now you’re just being silly. Do just a little bit of digging into Wyness’ background and you’ll realise just how wrong you are and if Kenwright is such a great businessman, why has he sat on his hands for the past 13 years (yes, he’s been on the board that long) and not done
anything to improve Goodison in that time? The last redevelopment at Goodison paid for by the club was the Main Stand in the mid-seventies (the Park End was built on the cheap with money from the Football Foundation). Throughout that time, other clubs have redeveloped their grounds to bring them up to date and provide better facilities. Everton haven’t even though many fans and shareholders have repeatedly said the ground needed to be redeveloped for the long term health of the club.

If you get Tesco on board rather than Bestway who nobody has heard of.
You criticise the original poster for not making any sense, but where is this sentence going?

If Liverpool want the loop they will outbid EFC and we will end up with nothing.
Liverpool already have planning approval for Stanley Park, they’ve submitted an amended proposal, but they are far too far down that route now to want to switch to a new location and start again. This is about Everton Football Club, not our neighbours.

We will still be the peoples club. The peoples club is not just about Liverpool City Council. If EFC can not compete with its rivals they will become the peoples club to fewer and fewer people.
The peoples’ club thing is absolutely nothing to do with LCC, but the context of Moyes’ original remark is that on the streets of the city he saw more blue shirts than red, more Evertonians than Kopites. It’s not a national thing, or even a regional thing. He was talking about the City of Liverpool being more blue than red. Personally I think it’s about 50/50, but either way that soundbite has been overused in the most toe-curling way - I bet even Davey regrets it sometimes now.

I think KEIOC is a slightly conservative reactionary group who can not face up to change. I would love to stay at Goodison for ever but life ain?t what it used to be.
I think KEIOC are mostly Everton fans like the ones I mentioned earlier who have been pushing and pushing at the club to redevelop Goodison for the last 15 years. These are forward thinking people who have the long-term health of the club at heart. Many of them will have children who they are bringing up as Evertonians. They probably want their kids to see Everton be successful and win trophies as they have seen the club do in their lifetime. Their level of commitment to the club, the ideas and plans for the future that they’ve brought to the table suggest to me that they are well able to "face up to change". Indeed they want change, they just have a particular idea about what kind of change is best for Everton Football Club. You may disagree, that’s fine, but don’t deride them for trying to make a difference.

Do we want to miss out on an opportunity due to inertia and fear of change.
Do we want to make a decision which will help define the club for the next 50-100 years without fully exploring all the potential options?
10   Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:01:11

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Some good points but "KIRKBY IS NOT IN WIGAN". People at least need to do their research when making cases against the move to kirkby!!!
Dave Norman
11   Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:48:02

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All very good strong points there for the loop.. the only thing is how will we pay for this?

- and by pay for this i dont mean taking on 150-200million worth of debt which will depleat any additional revenue from the improved facilities/capacity for the next 50 years in repayments.

Kirkby offers us the opportunity to move to an improved stadia for peanuts.

Or would you move your own home 4 miles down the road if it meant you would live in a huge house for next to nothing? - with the result being more disposable income for you to enjoy life, live it to the fullest .. or maybe you’d prefer to live nearer your own town center and live in poverty for the rest of your life because you simply struggle to pay the mortgage - let alone have the money to "keep up with the jones’ next door"

Before moving your OWN home you have to ask yourself - can i afford this bigger pad.

The same thing applies, can Everton afford a move anywhere other than Kirkby? .. Sadly i feel we all know the answer is No.

There are some very strong points there, and it would be great to be able to move there, im sure if we had the money BK would be the first onboard with your ideas! The simple fact is everything comes with a price, we need to weigh up the pro’s and con’s of each. and frankly i dont want to see us going down the route of Leeds because weve stretched ourselves to financial meltdown.

Increase the revenue through Kirkby and hell, who knows in 30 or 40 yrs time once the additional cash has generated cup winning sides with the finances to compete in the transer market with any club in the PL, maybe we will be sat here discussing the pro’s and con’s of moving once again to "the loop", "Were coming home" some may say .. with our bank account bulging and the finances to build possibly the worlds most impressive stadium.

I cant vote, but if i could, id vote Yes, and i’d look forward to seeing Moyes competing in the transfer market with the additional funds created from kirkby - not offset to make repayments, or repair goodison for the next 10yrs while other sites are argued about.. Maybe then the glory days of our past will return.

12   Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:45:08

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The Loop project will be paid for in the same way as kirkby with Bestway contributing in return for reciveing land adjacent and getting planning permission to develop residential / office / leisure facilities.

Also Naming rights will be far higher for the loop stadium because of its prominant position...

Furthermore Bestway plan to work with EFC to develop GP (for housing or retail) rather than selling it therfore making more profit from the site.
Brian Finnigan
13   Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:38:58

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The article by Chris Multesanti deserves to be read by a wider audience than that who visit Toffeeweb. In my opinion, it should be printed and presented to as many of the electorate as possible for the sake of democracy. Unless articles such as this are read by all supporters who are eligible to vote (in advance of them casting their crucial votes regarding the future of Everton F.C.) then the arguments for and against Kirkby will lack balance and the decision-making will be flawed as a result.

To that end, I am willing to pledge £100 towards the cost of printing this article and to volunteer my services (between 1p.m. and 3p.m.)in distributing said article to supporters before the Wigan game on Saturday. I would urge any other Toffeeweb readers who consider that the article needs to be seen by as wide a readership as possible to make a similar pledge now before the opportunity to act passes us by.

The Toffeeweb team have our contact e-mail addresses and might be persuaded to co-ordinate the collection of monies and duties on Saturday in the interests of balancing the argument for and against re-location to Kirkby.

I do not work for Bestways or the LCC. I am not eligible to vote (having abandoned my season ticket during the Rooney Summer) and am not attending the Wigan match but I am prepared to offer some of my time (as a leaflet distributor) and a little money in order to ensure that as many people as possible see that ther might be alternatives to Kirkby.
Antony Soprano
14   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:08:37

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Good article Christopher, I think this can work. Thank God Vito won’t be working on the construction.
Blue In Bolton
15   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:16:44

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Sentimentalist rubbish.
Tesco vs Bestways..? seems like a no-brainer to me.
Liverpool City Council will ALWAYS put L.F.C over E.F.C.
The loop is a ’convenient’ back yard to appease ’Lazy’ Evertonians who can’t be arsed travelling three or four miles to support their club.
They call The Everton Board ’liars..cheats and incompetents.. they complain about change..and cannot see a great deal when it’s put on a silver platter in front of them..
The Loop is NOT an option, it would be an expensive compromise to appease misguided Romantics..that would surely Sink the club.
The writing is on the wall if you all persist with this nonsense.
Robbie Muldoon
16   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:17:32

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Fuck off all you twats who would vote yes to Kirkby when this opportunity is staring us in the face!


Robbie Muldoon
17   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:39:03

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Blue in Bolton...

Is’nt funny how the majority of fans championing the move to Kirkby are based outside of Liverpool??

If the loop proves a greater financial burden on the club than Kirkby then so be it.. it is worth it!

This is not even about keeping Everton in our city.. Kirkby is Liverpool... The Loop vs Kirkby Town Centre is a no brainer!

Located in the heart of the city, the floodlights visible from Lime Street, the crown audible from the city centre!

Vote No to Kirkby!
Brian Finnigan
18   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:56:18

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To the Editorial Team......why are you allowing postings from people (such as Bolton Blue) who are unwilling to provide their full names? The same applies to those who fail to show their surnames.
Are they afraid of visits from the KEIOC? This is another body to which I do not belong but have some sympathy for as they, too, are trying to widen the debate.
Steve Syder
19   Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:46:34

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Blue in Bolton - spot on.
Steve L
20   Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:05:59

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I want to know why people think the loop could cope with the traffic? Have you ever been on Scotland Road with everyday traffic let alone adding cars for a 50,0000 seater stadium.

Also the loop is not that near the city centre. It’s a mile or two (at least) so it’s not that easy for everyone to walk from the stations.

Finally, I went past there yesterday on my way into the tunnel and the site appears to have one access road and is not that big. Put a staium on it and there is very little room for anything else.

Oh, and before anyone starts on the "people who support Kirkby live outside Liverpool" I live in Fazakerly.
Gerard Madden
21   Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:17:36

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The loop option was never anything more than an eleventh hour spoiler for our Kirkby project - the timing of the proposal hilariously tells you that.

Right so we know we’re only possibly going to get a stadium the quality of the Kirkby one because Bestway arn’t a charity- they’re a cash ’n carry much smaller than evertonian led Tesco.

That poster who earlier said that Liverpool may go for the loop if they can’t get Stanley Park, well 1) They WILL get Stanley Park - their new application is still for only 60,000 with a significant tweak (steely tweak) here and there and a bigger kop and 2) They won’t want the loop as it’s less than half the size of their new site - a reason too why we shouldn’t and won’t consider it. Finally the council is full of RS embedded in it, cllr Bradley was acting on his own behalf as an evertonian when he proposed the site not on behalf of the council, there’s no way the planners and nearby residents will entertain a football stadium there so near the well advanced project Jennifer re-generation plan.

Anyway i’m very optimistic that all this debate will be seen as ’bluster’ in a couple of weeks.
Steve Ryan
22   Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:29:11

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Chris, outstanding article mate and excellent comments from James. I fully support Brian Finnigan’s suggestion and would be willing to make a similar contribution towards the cost of leafleting the crowd at the Wigan game.
If any of you ever visit Sydney, please contact the Everton Supporters Club here as I would like to buy you a pint.
Karl Masters
23   Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:07:05

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This article is spot on. We DO NOT have to move now or never move! There will always be options in the future. There is much wrong with the Kirkby option and whilst I applaud the Board for trying they haven’t got it right. TRY AGAIN has to be the response which means a No Vote. Deep down, a lot of you Yes voters know it. Do not accept second best... there’s no going back if you do!
Ajamu Mutumwa
24   Posted 05/08/2007 at 13:13:08

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Great article save one small tiny little detail. Funding, and where this is coming from.

Alternatives encompass suitable site, and funding. A site is only as useful as it can be funded.

Rather than using the Island as a vote spoiler, it would have been more useful if LCC had come up with some concrete proposals a lot more than 3 months ago.
Blue In Bolton
25   Posted 05/08/2007 at 13:39:49

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R.e Brian Finnigan..

Why should they not allow postings from Evertonians not willing to post their own name?
For the purpose of this board..i am Blue in Evertonian.
Do i fear a visit from the KEIOC..?
Can’t be sure... judging by some of the idiotic antics some people claiming to represent them have got up to ..i.e Showing hooligan videos to the people of Kirby.
Hillbillyish references to ’Woolybacks’ etc etc..

R.E Robbie Muldoon

You say..If the loop turns out to be a bigger financial burden to the club, then so be it, it’s worth it..
I say...I rest my case..idiocy complete idiocy.
26   Posted 05/08/2007 at 13:58:05

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Funny how all these so called alternatives are seemingly coming to the fore in one great rush,just as the Kirby vote draws near:one can be forgiven for being cynical at their proponents’ tardiness, or ostensible indifference hitherto.
It’s easy to propound solutions, but less so to back it up with facts re costing, logistics and the like. Anyone who thinks that Kenwright and Co would sell Everton down the gurgler to save their own necks is either delusional or naive.
Stagnation and intertia is the Blue’s surefire ticket to footballing oblivion, & whilst all have the club’s welfare at heart, some of the methodologies leave a lot to be desired....
Willie Wonka
27   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:27:39

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Does anybody like chocolate?
Ed lloyd
28   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:18:38

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I think that this Site on Scotland road would be great and while i can’t pay to help with production of this to be handed to supporters at the wigan game i think it would be a great idea and i look forward to seeing people handing out this article at the game if you decide to do it.
John Burquest
29   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:29:53

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i think this article touches on what for me is the most valid reason for not moving to kirkby and one that seems to be overlooked...

the majority of matchday fans enjoy going to the pub and walking to the ground, you only have to approach the ground from county road to appreciate that the majority of fans are walkers. You run the risk of losing this majority in kirkby as you either have to rely on someone being a designated driver or public transport which lets be honest is shite!
robert treacy
30   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:21:40

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im a blue from dublin i can only travel a couple of times a season but personally it always got up my wick the fact that liverpool had a shop in the centre of the city if the loop is a viable option the kirby idea should be put on hold. it would prove the club has its city based fans best interest at heart. if the club is to grow with its current identity it needs to be at the forfront of the city.
31   Posted 05/08/2007 at 15:06:12

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The one phrase used in the piece that should stick in everyone’s mind is ’displacement’, it is the moving of a people from their home to a land they don’t belong to.

If you want to become a refugee then vote yes, if you want to stay within your homeland vote no to kirby.
North Sea Blue
32   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:53:35

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To all those deluded Blues who think we will end up with a shiny new stadium for next to nothing, no debt and money to spend on players, get real for christ’s sake. BK and his fellow shareholders will be the only beneficiary’s here, not us, not EFC. Give them 2-3 years at Kirkby and they will sell out for untold millions to the first foreign buyer who knocks on the door. Guess what happens next..? The new buyer takes out a bloody big mortgage on the club / ground and we end up in Kirkby with a huge debt to boot..!! Tell me why we should trust Blue Bill and his cronies, John Wood is reportedly worth over £100m but he’s not dipping into his pocket is he..? I bet they are all rubbing their hands at the prospect of huge gains in their personal wealth.
Dave Carmister
33   Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:59:42

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Excellent summary of the pro-loop case, once I got past point 1.
I know it’s a fan’s letter but if I hadn’t read past the duff and distracting sales pitch that preceded the list I wouldn’t have gotten to the valid stuff.

If you are trying to slag off ground locations United isn’t the ground to compare, City is.

oh yes, and...
[quote]there is an awful lot of [b]soulless green space[/b] between the Pier Head and Kirkby central! [/quote]

You don’t have to drive through the safari park
Crow-flies-wise the pier head is 3 miles from Goodison, Kirkby 4 miles not much difference.... you’ve obviously never walked the route after the Asha kicked out..
34   Posted 05/08/2007 at 15:24:05

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the question is down to the funding. the kirkby move i doubt as it is no longer in the city. but if what the board are telling us is fact about the funding we may have to take note. We are not in a position to take funding away from the building of our team to build a new ground, this could have a backwards step on us.
35   Posted 05/08/2007 at 16:32:23

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sorry e4e what take what funding from which players? As most have said here this bid for Lucho stinks of shearer, owen etc smokescreens just before the ballot papers arrive. I would be happy for it to happen but history with us has a habit of repeating itself, sorry.
Alex K
36   Posted 05/08/2007 at 16:21:50

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In reply to Steve L, who wrote,
"Also the loop is not that near the city centre. It?s a mile or two (at least) so it?s not that easy for everyone to walk from the stations".

The Loop is; 0.72miles to St Johns Tower, 0.69miles to Lime Street, 0.98miles to the Liver Building. Incidently, two miles from The Loop gets you; well into Toxteth, beyond Edge Hill, (and as the crow flies - to Birkenhead).

All measurements taken from Google Earth.
37   Posted 05/08/2007 at 17:03:51

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Absolute Bollocks !!!
John Charles
38   Posted 05/08/2007 at 17:32:25

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The problem is, if you vote no to kirkby on the basis of you want the Loop ’properly explored’ then you have to understand that Kirkby will be off the table for ever.

So what then if the Loop once ’properly explored’ if not viable financially? where will that leave us? regretting the great deal at kirkby like we regret the great deal that was kings dock now?

Again, mostly emotive issue’s, most valid and agreeable but I fail to see any substance about financing the supposed Loop project from the people that matter.

The Loop’s 11th hour appearance smacks off LCC trying to cover base for after Kirkby happens and deflecting the inevitable criticism LCC will get for having everton leave "we offered them the loop" LCC will say - and people may buy into it wasnt LCC’s fault.

If the Loop is financially viable and achievable as a project then we need facts and figures, stadium designs, costing plan, business plan NOW. right now.

If its such a great opinion then surely these things should be given to Evertonians like myself who would vote no if a deliverable city option was available - again though, The Loop does not even exist as a plan B until plans, costing, stadium design and business plan are made public.

Everton are pretty much saying Kirkby is deliverable and a business plan is in place. If LCC want me to vote no I need proof this is not pie in the sky.

Fair comments?
North Sea Blue
39   Posted 05/08/2007 at 18:18:45

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John, what makes you think that Kirkby will be " Off the table forever" if we investigate other options. Common sense tells me that Tesco and KBC need Everton for this project to fly. The fact is they will wait and Everton need not rush into making a decision. The exclusivety period is now over and like any well run business we should now explore the options before diving in with both feet.
Tom Hughes
40   Posted 05/08/2007 at 18:18:24

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I read some people insinuating that Tesco are better partners than Bestway presumably because of their wealth/success etc. Surely Bestway as a private company, and therefore not beholden to shareholders are a far more viable partner, especially as they are not small fry themselves. Tesco have only just made it clear that as a plc they will not be paying for our stadium, simultaneously it was anounced by the club that our contribution is now potentially £50m+ (this is growing by the week for all those monitoring the finances, wasn’t it £15-25m only last week?). Bestway have already anounced that their investment can be significantly bigger than Tescos, and LCC are also able to release more funds via land release schemes than can ever be possible in greenfield Kirkby. All those people dismissing this additional distance (No, it isn’t just 3 miles) should try using public transport to get to Kirkby......I did it for over 6 years from South Liverpool. It’s a fraction of that at Walton, and miniscule in comparison to that at the city-centre. Please stop and imagine for one minute...... Practically all merseysiders (I actually hate that term) can get 1 bus, or 1 train, or 1 ferry directly into Liverpool city centre from the end of their streets. This can never be matched at Kirkby. (In a city of one of the lowest car ownerships too). No need to take the car, but if you do there’s the highest number of car parking spaces in the region next door to the loop. If we move to the loop we will only be emulating what is going on all over the US right now, by moving our stadia right into our downtown area. As far as LCC or whoever having left it too late etc..... so what? They’re not obliged to help us at all. We should be questioning a board who have said that they have exhausted all the options (whilst in an exclusivity pact?) and haven’t come up with this option on their own. It took an ordinary Evertonian to come up with it..... He told the club over 6 months ago, but they were already aboard the kirkby train and didn’t want to know!! Why? Great initial post BTW!!
Andy baker
41   Posted 05/08/2007 at 19:36:21

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small town in wigan, what a fuckin ridoiculous chant that would be.

Now i know why people are arsed about 4miles, their geography is shite!
Tom Hughes
42   Posted 05/08/2007 at 20:19:45

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Thank god for that, it’s gone back to 4 miles...... 4 and a half anyone?
robert carney
43   Posted 05/08/2007 at 20:27:23

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Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, for that excellant contribution Chris.

Blue in Bolton, have you ever opened your eyes to the rathole on your doorstep.

It may make it easy for you to drive to Kirkby but were is your taste.

The premeirship needs clubs to stay to their roots or it is in danger of imploding. Without the fans in the grounds there is nothing to sell.

The Loop site would give us as said the opportunity to grab a large share of the corporate money due not only to its location, but the effects of a thriving City.

If it took ten years it would be worth the wait.

Kirkby is a non-starter and the NO VOTE is on bandwagon roll.

Take heed Bill, chase Wyness to fucking well where he came from and join the KEIOC campaign or hang your head in shame for eternity.
Leahy has become more than an advisor and is clouding your judgement.

Vote No, and watch the club go from strength to strength starting on the football field.
44   Posted 05/08/2007 at 21:24:08

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Mate your off your head on drugs none of that makes any sense.
robert carney
45   Posted 05/08/2007 at 21:47:59

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Gary, on drugs no;

sometimes off my head with wine or beer. Be off my head even to consider the present proposals for Kirkby
Blue In Bolton
46   Posted 05/08/2007 at 22:44:27

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R.E Robert Carney

The Reebok Stadium..or rat-hole as you so call it, is’nt actually on my’s in Horwich.
Most Wanderers fans don’t appear to have a problem with it, and ’Bolton’ the Town has’nt collapsed into ruin because of Wanderers moving there.
The Kirby plans i’ve seen do not resemble Boltons set up at all as far as i can see, so that makes that argument redundant.
It would be easier for me to drive to Boltons games than Goodison or Kirby..but i don’t, i’m a blue.
How very dare you attack my taste because my opinion differs from yours. My vote (if i had one) would be for Kirby because of the benefits i can see for Everton Football Club in the short, and long term.
I see no benefit in sitting on our arses looking gift horses in the mouth for the sake of a few miles, and a few supporters whose pre match booze ups will be disadvantaged by the club daring to progress.
Its still Merseyside, for gods sake..get real.
Dave Moorcroft
47   Posted 05/08/2007 at 21:15:14

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We signed this exclusivity deal for 12 months,Now were told to vote,For years now were told we have no money,So as to make us desperate for any good news,Hence accept anything the board want to do with our fantastic family of EVERTONIANS.If they have the best interests of this club at heart then why such a rush to have the vote.Why not suspend the vote till the end of this season so we can look at every offer that is put on the table.Instead of just telling us this ones not viable and that ones not viable without any explanation.This is being done like some thatcher election campaign,Scaremongering people into believing theres not a second to lose or its the end of the world if we dont vote yes.I for one am appalled that they are using the players to try to get there message over.They have enough on there plate without getting involved in the politics.It is already causing rifts between Evertonians the way its being presented without any detailed consultation with us the lifeblood.Or do they think were thick.If the board have nothing to hide,They have nothing to lose by exploring every avenue open to them and if the other options are not viable then just explain to us why.Only then can we go forward as a united club.This is to Big to just dismiss the others.
John Charles
48   Posted 06/08/2007 at 01:00:23

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North Sea Blue:

See wording of ballot question. Also see Wyness quotes of saying the board will immediately end kirkby negotiations if a no vote is made.

Lets make this very clear, if we vote no then Kirkby wont happen ever,

you really think Tesco will leave a door open for us after we essentially throw the v’s at them? They cant give us a better deal than is on offer, financially its a gret deal.

Blues - I am as loyal and traditional as you all ..if not more so, believe me I have invested more time,money and emotion in Everton then most of you in more ways than one , I will vote yes to progressm yes to evolution and yes to giving us the best chance possible of bringing silverware back to Everton Football Club.
Ed lloyd
49   Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:45:43

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This stadium in Kirby may be a short term fix but it will not do for the long term. i think that the reason the board are trying so hard to push this through is the fact that they are making massive personal gain from this which is why they want the stadium.

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