Every time I see an article with an argument for Everton staying in the city, I?m full of hope that we Evertonians will see through all the move-to-Kikby-or-were-finished rubbish and vote No. Every time I see a pro-Kirkby comment my heart sinks and I?m faced with the horror that we might end up with a yes vote.
We would be mad to give up our city, and the culture and heritage that comes with it to build a cheap stadium out of town. It's obvious that all the possible alternatives haven?t been explored properly. Moving stadia is obviously a massive decision so surely the cost to the club of doing a full business review into a few other possible sites would be worth it. It's just not good enough to say that there is no plan B and that therefore voting no means that we will rot away at Goodison.
What would the club have done if the main man at Tesco wasn?t an Evertonian, and the Tesco offer had never happened, wouldn?t they have to find an alternative then?
Most of the pro-Kirkby arguments I?ve seen are almost based on negativity.. ?I know its not the best but we have no choice??. And it just makes a joke of what is supposed to be our whole ethos. Do I have to say it? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
The thing is we do have a choice, don?t we. If we vote No then the board will be forced to look at the alternatives, but it's just ridiculous that they haven?t done this properly earlier. Surely they would have more bargaining power with the likes of Bestway and LCC if they know there is an offer from Tesco and Knowsley on the table. Why haven?t they provided us with an alternative or made it completely transparent why the other alternatives are not viable.
I just hope we don?t sell our soul through scare tactics. Is a Tesco-endorsed stadium really good enough? It just feels cheap and intuitively wrong and I dread to think of us settling for something that we all know isn?t great. We deserve a place in this city and we really deserve innovative leaders who will keep us here. Unfortunately the short sighted people on our board seem hell-bent on moving us to Kirkby but it doesn?t mean we have to go along with them does it?
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 05/08/2007 at 04:46:56
2 Posted 05/08/2007 at 04:45:03
3 Posted 05/08/2007 at 04:55:12
4 Posted 05/08/2007 at 06:33:05
5 Posted 05/08/2007 at 06:33:47
The Board have known for a long time that we need a new ground but don’t appear to have made any positive steps to do something about it and have left it up to others (Tesco, GFE/KEIOC, and now BestWay)to sort out their mess for them.
6 Posted 05/08/2007 at 07:40:38
Have you considered what would happen if the board did tell Tesco and Knowsley that they needed more time to consider potential competitive alternatives? This is a business decision; would it be realistic for Tesco and Knowsley to sit around waiting whilst EFC assess what the competition has to offer? What if this opportunity evaporates because EFC delay the decision? And what if we end up relying on LCC to come up with alternatives which are not viable - back to the Kings Dock fiasco!
The fact of the matter is, this is simply too good an opportunity to miss:
+ Land provided FOC by Knowsley
+ Stadium built for two thirds of the development cost by Tesco contractors
+ EFC fund the stadium fixtures and fittings
I also think it is about time people started getting behind BW - you don’t have too look to far back to the state of the club before he arrived. For me his track record has been pretty sound to date:
+ delivered Fincham
+ invested in the team, which is significantly better than at anytime during the last 5 years (albeit a bit small)
Without revenue, this great club will stand still... and on the basis of the opportunity before us, it really is a no brainer - vote YES!
7 Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:05:54
8 Posted 05/08/2007 at 08:56:28
9 Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:14:46
it is happening its costing us next to nothing
and we’ll be better of financially
and most of all be able to compete
10 Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:25:20
This board has a proven track record of wasting opportunites and most of all money.
DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO BALLS IT ALL UP IN KIRKBY?
They have also proven that they are willing to say anything to deflect from their shortcomings.
What about saying that they bid £10m for Michael Owen, when everyone knew that the price was £17m? £4m for Baines when the price has already been set at £6M? I think that we will add Gonzalez to that list also.
I have said this before, Everton as a business are a joke from top to bottom.That is down to BK and the board.NO-ONE ELSE>
If we move to Kirkby, they will cock that up or will sell us on at the first opportunity.
VOTE NO TO KIRKBY
11 Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:39:09
it seems that every anti-move letter is a main article
12 Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:03:09
A No vote is the sensible choice on the basis that the club has not fully explored all the options. WE have 3 votes in my family across all generations and we all say NO.
13 Posted 05/08/2007 at 09:29:01
14 Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:05:02
1.kings dock debacle.
3.the fortress sport fund fiasco,which i still cant believe he got away with!
5.the fact everyone he does business with is his best mate!
6.i could go on.
i dont doubt kenwright is a big evertonian,but so am i,but i know i couldnt run everton and neither can he!
15 Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:18:59
16 Posted 05/08/2007 at 10:59:24
17 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:06:47
18 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:17:24
A ’NO to Kirkby’ reply from Evertonians united against this disastrous Kenwright will force change at the club - even if it is the axe of the fall guy Wyness.
The club will have to look for alternatives then.
Vote No... Kenwright Out..
19 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:18:52
20 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:25:39
21 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:37:56
The only argument anybody can give is that we’ll be better off financially, which is unproven in many respects. There is no credible Market Research to even back this up! It’s all supposiion and guesswork.
You Pro-movers seem to have given up the ghost at the first hurdle. Fat lot of good you’d be in a crisis. You have to fight for what you believe in. If you believe Everton FC belongs in Liverpool the city you have to Vote No. Stop being panicked into thinking there is no alternative. Even if there wasn’t one now ( and there may well be ) times change, things happen. Everton’s fortunes have ebbed and flowed over the years... isn’t believing that we will win something some day what keeps you going to the match? And I would say we have a better chance of finding a Stadium solution within the city in the next 5 years than winning a cup!
Think about it and stop letting BK & KW panic you into an IRREVERSIBLE decision...
22 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:31:46
Would there be a protest saying how we should not move from Goodison to such a poor site?
If we have to move, I have just spent all of 10 minutes looking at the OS map of Liverpool and have found at least half a dozen sites that look large enonough to accomodate a stadium of the required size. No doubt there are problems with each site, but one difficulty raises its ugly head above all the others, nobody is willing to part-fund any of them (at least not to my knowledge).
To everybody who doesn’t want to move out of Liverpool; go find somewhere that’s available, make a business proposal to somebody re funding etc and get it sorted, then published and read by those eligible to vote, and, may I suggest, you get it done pretty damned quickly.
To misinterpret Edmund Burke "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."
23 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:46:29
The board have supplied little evidence that they have fully investigated other alternatives, Instead of vigorously looking at the Bestway proposal they are ignoring it.
Tesco and Kirby smacks of a done-deal.
Ignore the panic mongering, which face it I’ve fallen for, and vote ’NO’ and make the board look at alternatives.
24 Posted 05/08/2007 at 11:55:22
25 Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:36:47
3.the fortress sport fund fiasco,which i still cant believe he got away with!
5.the fact everyone he does business with is his best mate!
6.i could go on."
Go on then mate, tell me some more...
26 Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:42:49
probably the same people who oppossed the kings dock
27 Posted 05/08/2007 at 12:55:44
28 Posted 05/08/2007 at 13:07:33
29 Posted 05/08/2007 at 14:41:35
30 Posted 05/08/2007 at 15:19:19
31 Posted 05/08/2007 at 18:32:49
Business. Now that says to me, making money. Is that not the real reason Bully Wyness and Bill Kenwright are looking for the quick fix Kirkby option? Would certainly explain the scaremongering no?
If Kenwright was as blue as he claims he’d do one and let someone who CAN take the club forward without Tesco as a crutch come in and take the reigns. Or at least do some bloody work kicking some arses on the board and looking into alternatives that he knows his fellow fans want so badly.
32 Posted 05/08/2007 at 18:56:45
It wasn’t LCC that made Kings Docka fiasco,it was the Board that have committed numerous fiascos in the past (see ian demo above) and now they are trying to promulgate another one WITH NO PLAN B??
But as we now know there is a Plan B AND C.
Why did they tell us that GP cannot be redeveloped when it has been proven that it so obviously can?
If the reason is they don’t have the money (it’s not "deliverable")then say so and not give us bullshit about a "Deal of the Century" (which ws King’s Dock by the way)
Delivered Fincham? We don’t own it!
Invested in the team? Now just where did that AJ money come from again?
Land provided freeo f charge by Knowsley? -Land provided FOC by Bestway.
So what was your point again????
33 Posted 05/08/2007 at 19:40:42
On no posters being excited about Kirkby. There have been before it’s just gets boring saying the same thing over and over and dealing with the persistant pessimism many people have particularly on this site about the board and club.
Just to cheer you up though I’m excited about Kirkby. I like the ground design and think the transport options are way better than Walton. I know this will annoy many but I think it’s really good deal and am astonishingly sceptical about redeveloping Goodison and only slightly less about the Loop which has popped up almost by magic.
And um if anyone can explain the logic of "because it’s so divisive we should vote no" I’d be delighted to know.
34 Posted 05/08/2007 at 20:57:29
There are more and more people seeing through this crappy deal.
People like yourself will be remembered for a long time if as I believe the fans are changing their mind and are going to VOTE NO.
I have been harping on about this all summer to all and sundry and now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel(sic).
Vote No, support our beloved team as the season gets under way and watch the alternatives come to the front speedily.
35 Posted 05/08/2007 at 21:08:53
Good deals come from competition (compare the exclusive Sky telly deal to the present one) and I see no competing alternatives here.
Kirkby might easily be our only option and the transportation might be good, the stadium design might be astonishing but you can be assured that we’re being ripped off in the process.
36 Posted 05/08/2007 at 21:25:26
The logic behind my statement is that had Tesco offered to provide the same stadium in say Everton or Walton you can be sure support would be almost unanimous amongst those fans who, like yourself believe that redeveloping Goodison is a non-starter. The rest of us would probably eventually accept the move with some regret. The fact that so many are against the Kirkby option should tell you that the club is in danger of alienating itself from a sizeable portion of its fanbase, not to mention the potential support of future generations of scousers. Kirkby is a fine town and its residents are mainly from pure scouse stock but the club belongs closer to its roots.
37 Posted 05/08/2007 at 22:10:27
38 Posted 05/08/2007 at 22:15:39
39 Posted 05/08/2007 at 22:09:22
EFC have no money to support a stadium anywhere else, thats why you need investment and the only major invester is....yes you guessed it TESCO!
40 Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:06:28
41 Posted 06/08/2007 at 08:40:46
I have the same sentiments as everyone of course. Yes I want us to have a better ground, better facilities, better income, but hate the thought of leaving the city and all the ammunition that will give the shite in future.
But this last few weeks has made my mind up. I do not want to go into such an enormous venture with the current board. Kenright and Co just dont seem capable of tying their own shoelaces at the moment let alone a project of this scale and importance.
If we had people in place with the business sense, experience and leadership required I would be swung to a yes vote ....just. The way the summer’s transfers (and nontransfers) have been handled has reminded me of who exactly would be running this show and I have absolutely zero faith left in Kenright, very little in the rest of the crew, and I am now actually seeing/predicting a complete cock up costing us millions if not something worse. If this is mishandled it has the potential to completely crush the club. And I can think of no more likely people to mishandle it than our board unfortunately.
I am voting No. That doesnt mean never... it just means not with this bunch of clowns running the show. More like a vote of confidence to be honest and that has made my mind up very easily.
42 Posted 06/08/2007 at 10:19:23
If you vote no then expect to stay in the decrepit hole that is Goodison for ever and witness a slow, terminal decline into oblivion.
Also, I’d rather play in a stadium backed by Tesco. Who the hell are Bestway? Are they like Farmfoods? Wow, real quality commercial partners then.
43 Posted 06/08/2007 at 11:05:58
We can’t even fill Goodison so why will we fill a 50k seater in the north pole, out of the way? I think Kenwright has reached his ceiling. Im sick of these, "he’s a loyal blue, we dont want to do a Leeds, we can make steady progress" comments. Kenwrights best bit of business was signing Moyes (his saviour) and now he needs to go FOR THE GOOD OF HIS BELOVED EFC. We dont want an arse to fleece us but the RIGHT investment. I want to see how BK has aggressively marketed this club to potential backers....I dont believe he has AT ALL.
Liverpoo get away with a lot of stuff like building on Stanley Park because a. they are called ’Liverpool’ and b. they have money. Its sickening.
Say No to Kirkby, Kill Bill
44 Posted 06/08/2007 at 12:36:19
If we vote no, the board will ignore that and we will still move to kirkby.
45 Posted 06/08/2007 at 12:43:18
So fare thee well, my own true love
When I return united we will be
It’s not the leaving of Liverpool that’s grieving me
But my lady when I think of thee
46 Posted 06/08/2007 at 14:41:03
The problem is neither Latin mottoes nor historical success are going to buy us a stadium we can’t afford!
47 Posted 06/08/2007 at 15:30:31
48 Posted 06/08/2007 at 15:53:48
There are more multi millionaires now than ever all over the globe, selling to a rich arab or yank who knows nothing about ’soccer’ doesn’t worry me in the slightest..EFC is a business with very good prospects...don’t tell me it’s not possible to get an investor..it’s because the board (Bill) do not want outsiders coming in.
Bill is a very emotional evertonian and will always be held in high regard with most blues but he simply can’t afford to take us to the next level..shame but that’s the way it is.
Come on Bill, get the investment or move on.
49 Posted 06/08/2007 at 17:01:11
Yes, we need more corporate boxes, however much I despise these jumpers onto the trendy football bandwagon (a generalisation, I know, but not too far removed from the truth). Yes, we need new investment to help us take us to the next level, because there’s no such thing as standing still in football; What you’re really doing is going backwards. It’s not even moving to Kirkby that galls me so much, even though I have massive reservations about it. What pissed me off the most is being taken for a bleeding idiot by the current board. If we are after more seats, why not simply put a top tier on the Park End? That’s another 6-7,000 seats right there, with a minimum increase in revenue of over 0?5200,000 per match just from your league games. Add in a couple of matches from a half decent cup run, and there’s your extra millions for players right there.
However, here is a point that nobody seems to have raised yet; Again, call my cynical, but with a new stadium having been built largely as a result of other people’s largesse, and this meaning the club is relatively debt free, would it surprise anybody to find that within, say, 3 years of moving to Kirkby those overseas buyers are actually very interested in buying Everton after all, and that Uncle Bill’s shares in Everton have sky-rocketed in value?
And how come is it that every time we have had a real opportunity to progress where it really matters, on the pitch, we’ve let it slip away, 95, 03, 05, NOW, and have failed to give our manager good funds to go out and really improve the squad, yet whenever the board want something off us, more money, a ’yes’ vote, renew our season tickets, etc, it always comes with a promise of having more money to spend on new players?
It’s a f**king disgrace that this season has seen our money from Sky double, and yet, before we actually sign Baines, we have bought one player for 0?54 million and sold two for over 5 million (Beats & Naysmith), and have released Pistone & Wright whose combined wages were reported to have been somewhere near 0?535-40K a week. I’ll vote for a move when the club offers a clear and open result from a feasibility study from 2 or 3 sites,and can actually prove the redevelopment of GP is too expensive. When that’s done they can willingly have my vote.
50 Posted 06/08/2007 at 20:10:51
51 Posted 07/08/2007 at 18:55:09
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to Column articles, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.