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Fortune needed by the silly

By Eileen Roberts :  13/08/2007 :  Comments (25) :
Having read Colin Fitz's piece I have to commend him on the detail he provides and his obvious knowledge concerning such matters. But what does he tell us that we don't already know?

We already know that Everton's financial situation is very much inferior to the 'big' clubs. In fact, we know more than that, Everton's financial situation is now inferior to clubs like West Ham, Portsmouth, Manchester City, Newcastle et al, clubs that a few decades ago were not in the same financial league as Everton. Colin then goes on to tell us that if this situation persists Everton will fade away into permanent obscurity. Maybe even die.

He then tells us that this has to be fixed and emphasises the importance of a new stadium in this repair job. We already knew that too. Then, having rubbished the hopes of a redeveloped Goodison (quite accurately and eloquently in my opinion), he gets down to the crux of the matter: Kirkby or Liverpool. We already knew, too, that that was the crux of the matter.

Having made it clear in his piece that there was no identified and funded alternative to Kirkby in Liverpool, he then goes into 'NO' mode and recommends a vote against Kirkby on the basis that we should move closer to the city centre as this would provide Everton with greater revenue. This coming as a result of being better placed on the tourist routes and because Liverpool culture is defined by football! (Don't tell that to my daughter... she thinks it's defined by the Beatles; they are both wrong!)

Now, having told us Everton will die (or at least become very sick) without a new stadium, Colin tells us that a new stadium in Kirkby will be the end of Everton too!

So what do we have here?

  1. Everton will die without a new stadium.
  2. That new Stadium cannot be a redeveloped Goodison.
  3. A new stadium cannot be in Kirkby because that will kill us too.
  4. But there is no identified and funded site in Liverpool. (We're Doomed!)
So how long will it take us to die if we stay at Goodison, Colin? You said we will... so how long have we got? However long it is, will we die at Goodison before an alternative to Kirkby is identified and funded?

What evidence do you have that shows a stadium closer to the city centre is a better financial proposition than Kirkby? How do tourists taking in a derby game after a trip around the museums and a bit of shopping in the city centre help Everton financially? (Apart from the price of the one-off ticket... if he/she could get one for a derby game in the first place!)

Why is it financially better for Everton if the pubs, clubs and shops of the city centre are close by? That will encourage people to spend their hard-earned there rather than in any way connected to the Club. All your detailed and knowledgable hard work is wasted, Colin, because in the end you just bring it down to an unevidenced opinion.

I note that you state you only decided to vote 'NO' once you had written your piece and I wondered why you felt the need to state that. Colin, pull the other one! You don't fool me and you won't fool anybody else with any analysis in their souls. Your whole piece was written with the final sentence aleady in your head and all intended to sway a few votes. You are entitled to do that, but do try to do it with a bit more honesty.

By the way, as a parting shot, by suggesting that Keith Wyness can't add up you are also suggesting Terry Leahy can't either. Do you seriously think HE wouldn't notice if the figures didn't add up. Have another look at his open letter. This really is getting silly.

Reader Comments

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mick mac
1   Posted 13/08/2007 at 21:33:08

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Well Well Well. Eilleen that is a very down to earth examination of what I would have thought was a long painstakingly accuratish peice of work by mr fitz. I myself would agree with your observation that his motive was made long before he wrote the article. As forhis opening salvo on him being a Bill Kenwright fan mmmm not sure of that. very clever though propaganda wise. Your right, if he put as much work into the final 10th of the letter as to how we could fund a city centre stadium and as to how the transport links would be better for Everton with a city already full of shoppers, most of who will be going home at about 4.45 pm. I can understand that if a hotel pubs clubs etc were aligned to the club and owned by the club how the financila position could be improved. But again can Everton afford the outlay for the build etc. Yes while thereis a lot of information in the article, it falls way short of being DELIVERABLE
Laurence Hart
2   Posted 13/08/2007 at 21:45:16

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Well said Eileen, I wasn’t convinced by Colin’s article either. Neither am I convinced by LCC and the ’loop’, surely the last thing we need is another tight land locked situation, and finally I say ’yes’, we delayed when the TV companies were helping our competitors, this time we should take the ’bird in the hand’.
Barry Bragg
3   Posted 13/08/2007 at 22:37:46

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Well said Eileen. Fitz’s piece was shameless in it’s blatant and amatuerish attempt top distort the financial facts regarding the Kirkby proposal. I have read some of his other financial analysis of EFC before and always found them to be professional and astute but the final section of this latest article was crude and clumsy and he has lost any respect he may have had as far as I am concerned.
4   Posted 13/08/2007 at 23:00:48

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er billy, you amaze me I’ve never posted a serious article on here so how you had respect for me in frankly beyond me!! Whilst I clearly respect Eileen’s analysis you’re just shooting yourself in the foot as I’m quoting what KW actually tols the fans, i agree with everyone it’s complete rubbish, it appears to me that Everton have had to bring in Mr Leahy to put this information across again to the fans, different figures again btw.
5   Posted 13/08/2007 at 23:06:28

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Same old names keep coming up every time someone gives you valid reasons for not going to Kirkby
you have obviously voted yes, have the moral courage to admit it and but out, your X was your final word
Dave Lynch
6   Posted 13/08/2007 at 23:28:35

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Eileen. Terry and Bully can certainly add up.
Their probably counting the millions they can screw out of the club as we speak.
They don’t give a fuck about EFC or it’s fans.
This is buisness and profits overide every other principle a human being possesses.
You keep asking why this, why that and ’Wheres youre evidence’. Well where is yours.
You are very adept at pulling other peoples opinions and research apart. But offer fuck all back in way of facts.

tommy gibbons
7   Posted 14/08/2007 at 00:06:06

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Dave Lynch... unfortunately you eptomise a sizable amount of the NO voters, with your tone against fellow supporters and complete lack of understanding about how people put across their view.. Eileen does not need to show any f’in facts as you put it.. the club through Bully & Leahy have done that... Now tell me again why Bully n Terry don’t give a f*k about us fans..give me facts!!
Ann Adlington
8   Posted 14/08/2007 at 00:08:23

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Colin, I thought your article was excellent.
In relation to the different figures put forward as EFC?s expected contribution, my suspicion is that they haven’t got a clue about the real costs and they won’t know this until they know how many square foot Knowsley will allow for retail. The higher the square footage, the lower the cost to EFC.

A Knowsley Council report in June this year states that The current UDP suggests a growth in Kirkby of c.96,000 sq ft of food retail and a further 25,000-30,000 sq ft of comparison goods retail space.The Tesco store proposals (160,000 sq ft gross) and the further retail space of 300,000 st ft would be far outside the Plan guidelines. The report states "However, the transformational nature of the package should ensure that a valid argument could be made for this volume of additional space in this location."

This is why Tesco need EFC. This is why we are being used as a patsy. The inclusion of a new stadium in the planning application would ameliorate the fact that Tesco’s current retail proposal almost quadruples the suggested amount of retail space suggested in the Council’s UDP. In effect, it makes it more palatable.
Mike Hunt
9   Posted 14/08/2007 at 00:17:51

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Eileen, you are dead right. CF’s piece also stuck me as not so thinly NO camp propoganda lapped up by the TW Editors who seem to share CF’s not so hidden agenda. The Kirkby figures do add up though, the most credible figure spelled that out i.e. Sir Terry Leahy’s Open Letter. Only the most biggotted nay saying die hards fail to accept the truth that KIRKBY IS ONLY 10 MINUTES AWAY AND IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR EFC, as spelled out clearly in TL’s letter.
Please will the nay sayers get their heads out of the sand.
10   Posted 14/08/2007 at 00:22:08

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Whilst almost agreeing with Eileen regarding Colins allegiance regarding the vote I must also question hers. It would appear that while Eileen is happy to criticise left, right and centre she has not actually come up with anything too specific herself.
It is painfully obvious that a new stadium closer to the city centre will generate more revenue than one elsewhere. Surely everybody must accept that. The most obvious question, of course, is who is going to fund this stadium. It will not be EFC and that is for sure. I personally hope that the LCC and Bestway can come up with something. And quickly !
My real gripe is with Wyness and his "No Plan B" comment. That to me is outrageous. Every business must have a contingency plan just in case something does go wrong. It would appear that this does not apply to Everton Football Club.
I should add that I have no allegiances with any pro or anti movers. I have only supported the club for 50 years, first game the 10-4 hiding at Tottenham, so what do I know ?
Mike Hunt
11   Posted 14/08/2007 at 02:16:49

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Anyone without blinkers on (John)on can surely realise that success on the pitch is the determinant of size of revenue streams and attendences etc. Given the massive cost savings to EFC of the top quality stadium, it is clear (READ TESCO TEL’s LETTER aGAIN IF NECESSARY) that the Kirkby Project maximises revenue streams and maximizes opportunities for success on the pitch and also our attractiveness for huge outside investment in the Club.
Chris Davies
12   Posted 14/08/2007 at 08:45:55

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Good response to Colin Fitz’ article Eileen. His analysis is detailed but became more biased and rushed at the end. However what you really got to the heart of is the fact that he offers no Plan B. There are no certainties in this life. Like Mr Fitz I am amazed the club have allowed a vote on this issue, unlike him however I say we go for it. Enough of this endless analysis and hand wringing. Don’t we all have lives!
nick harris
13   Posted 14/08/2007 at 10:50:47

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my 2 pennies worth , i agree with this article totally.

to be honest i havent heard one good argument for the ’no’ vote.

as i have said before , they have ignored many facts and sugar coated others to suit there own purpose.
they have used scare tactics and smear campaigns to bully people into voting ’no’.(real evortonians will vote ’no’ ???? yea right ! shove that comment where the sun dont shine)

im not putting them all in the same boat , but a lot of the ’no’ voters and keioc campaigners are nothing but a bunch of unrealistic selfish cretins.
Dave Lynch
14   Posted 14/08/2007 at 10:57:18

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The point you have missed,is. If you are going to shoot other peoples opinions and research down.
Then have something to back it up with.
I may be a NO voter but that is personal to me and my opinions and feelings.
I still do not trust the reasons for this move and have stated before that i think there is a hidden agenda behind the whole thing.
I am not naieve enough to think staying at goodison is a good option either, i just think jumping into bed with Tesco and being beholding to them is not right for the club.
It has been proven in the past over transfer lies and promises of forthcoming funds that this board is frugal with the truth when it suits them.
If you want to blindly believe what they tell you about the Kirkby move, then more fool you.
By the way, my tone against fellow supporters has never been derogatory, nor have i ever attempted to have a lack of understanding toward fellow supporters in the 8 or so years i have been posting on this site.
I want what is best for us all, i am as fed up with the. We must move, because the board tell us it’s the only way forward. As you are with the don’t move brigade.
By the way Tom, Eileen is more than capable of looking after herself, as she has proven many times on this site.
Andy Lea
15   Posted 14/08/2007 at 13:57:43

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without wanting to over simplify isnt a yes vote essential just to keep the Kirkby option open - then if a more viable site in Liverpool is a no no we have Kirkby to fall back on - by voting yes you are merely accepting Kirkby as an option surely.
Dave Thompson
16   Posted 14/08/2007 at 15:26:23

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Didn’t you read Terry Leahy’s Open Letter? Tesco stand to make £400M from this deal It will be on the table for as long as it needs to be. The exclusivity period was at Tesco’s request, to keep out other Supermarket chains, not at Everton’s - there are no other football clubs to go there, and use of the land demands a Sports/Leisure facility.

We have time to explore options.

Why is the club rushing headlong into Kirkby without examining every option?

You tell me.
Barry Lightfoot
17   Posted 14/08/2007 at 16:49:52

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Why does everyone say a business must have a plan B if they did none of them would go out of business, what Bully means is that we haven’t got a viable plan B (come to that neither have Bestway or LCC) as plan B is staying exactly where we are.
Barry Lightfoot
18   Posted 14/08/2007 at 16:56:34

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Dave Thompson how much time do you want we have been looking for alternatives for about 10 years shall we waste another 10 until one fits every Everton supporters bill and one Everton can afford, exactly it’s impossible. If we vote yes there is nothing to stop us looking at other sites until it’s all signed on the dotted line.
19   Posted 14/08/2007 at 18:13:57

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Mike, I am most certainly not blinkered ! However I am mystified at the contradictory statements made by Mr. Wyness. One minute it is going to cost us x pounds and the next slightly less and then slightly more. Having had nine ? months to sort this out I would have thought that at least the Board would have got their story straight by now.
Barry, It is precisely because of a lack of Plan B that businesses do go under hence the possible need for one. I would also question whether a Plan B has even been thought about since the offer was made by Tesco.
I am not totally against the move but I do wonder if there are better sites available and if they have been investigated. I very much doubt it !
Andy Lea
20   Posted 14/08/2007 at 19:06:49

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Dave Thompson

Having now read Sir Terrys letter can you tell me where it says that Tesco will make £400 mill - I believe the quote you have misread says "Tesco will benefit if the £400 million redevelopment of Kirkby goes ahead"

So its the cost of the redevelopment not the amount they stand to make.

Kind regards
Ray Mia
21   Posted 14/08/2007 at 23:43:38

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Eileen - brilliant.

Mr. Lynch:

Okay, so let me get this right. Sir Terry’s open letter was actually all about lying and covering up corporate skulduggery, because Tesco, are only in it for the money. Despite Tesco being a public company that ensures that a CEO cannot make public statements that are carefully vetted by board members and probably also fall under the remit of the any number of regulatory bodies.

So, lets try Deloitte, you know, the INDEPENDENT global financial analyst firm.

Try reading this:,1014,sid%253D2765%2526cid%253D167570,00.html

Then try typing "Football" into the search engine on their homepage, maybe you could read some of the 277 articles written about football as an industry and a profitable business.

Oh, but this is just another faceless corporation trying to turn football from a community heritage into a supermarket.

After two games, Everton are top of the Premiership. Well done Moyes and the team, oh wait a minute, they’re just pawns in BKs game to ruin EFC and make a fast buck in flogging off the family jewels.

You know what. I would really like Moyes to have a decent regular budget as I’m sure he would deliver for us. I would also REALLY like a new stadium for this team to play in.

But then you all knew I’d say that.

karl Parsons
22   Posted 15/08/2007 at 00:19:52

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You’ve made me stop reading all the replies below to fire one back at you.

Why on earth does a company who grossed over £3Billion with record profits in 7 of the last 10 years that has over 4,000 stores world-wide that is recognised as the UK’s brand leader that owns more land than the Grosvenor Estates that makes more money per second than BT need to rely on Everton!

You turnip!

Now back to the other articles - let’s hope for all our sakes when this vote crap is out of the way we can get back to discussing the new Cahill ? Leon Osman.
23   Posted 15/08/2007 at 00:39:22

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well said karl leon comin good
Tom hughes
24   Posted 15/08/2007 at 12:40:43

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I think they do need Everton in this instance...... because they need them in order gain permission to open the biggest of their 4,000 stores in Kirkby..... otherwise they can’t..... hope this helps
25   Posted 15/08/2007 at 15:56:09

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I think what a lot of these articles by both sides of the fence , although well researched , well written and passionate , fail to understand , the average Everton supporter does not sit in front of reams of documents , calculator in hand , logged on to websites explaining company law , planning regulations and health and safety leaflet in their back pocket , all we care about is EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB ,... when it comes down to a vote it will be who we trust more , the board , or KEIOC or our own instincts , In the mean time , if any of you have noticed , we’ve just won our 1st two games , conviningly , with the best squad we’ve had for years with money to spend on additions , Will this change if it’s a yes or no vote ? not this season I think , If it’s a yes vote will this kill the club ? nah , I just can’t see it , If it’s a no vote ? then I can’t see that killing us off either , what could kill us ? If we let this bloody vote tear the supporters apart , that would be the disaster !!!!

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